Pt 1 Skeptic DEBATE! Scripture / Tradition? Resource Control, Byzantium & History, Generational Legacy

Summary

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Jay'sAnalysis Podcast Summary

Episode: Pt 1 Skeptic DEBATE! Scripture / Tradition? Resource Control, Byzantium & History, Generational Legacy

Host: Jay Dyer
Date: June 29, 2026

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Episode Overview

This episode of Jay’sAnalysis centers on lively call-in debates regarding salvation (Scripture vs. Tradition), the nature and continuity of the Orthodox Church, resource control in geopolitics (with a focus on the Balkans), Byzantine history, and generational legacy. Jay guides discussions with callers of various backgrounds—ranging from skeptics and seekers to Orthodox "agreers." Topics range from classic theological disputes (faith alone, salvation’s permanence, free will), to Orthodox approaches to scripture and tradition, the structure of early Christianity, and nuanced critiques of modern geopolitics. The episode is rich in debate, personal stories, and Jay’s signature humor, moving from deep philosophy to meta-commentary on online apologetics and content culture.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Salvation: Faith Alone vs. Orthodox Tradition

• Faith and Works Debate ([12:22–22:41])

  • A Protestant caller probes Jay on the Orthodox position: Isn’t faith alone sufficient for salvation?
  • Jay: “The New Testament teaches that faith alone is not enough to achieve final salvation. Salvation isn’t a one-time action in the Orthodox view.” ([13:37])
  • Emphasis on the threefold salvation: I am saved, I am being saved, I will be saved (perseverance required).
  • Caller’s emotional testimony about life change through the Holy Spirit is validated by Jay but not accepted as guaranteeing permanent salvation.
  • Key scriptural references: Jesus’ warnings about perseverance, Hebrews 6 (falling away post-enlightenment), parable of the sower.

• Nature of Forgiveness and Perseverance ([21:48–24:41])

  • Jay cites Jesus: not forgiving others can lead to loss of forgiveness from the Father ("disciples can...also not be forgiven" ([24:41]))
  • The spiritual journey is ongoing—not "once saved, always saved.”

2. Authority: Scripture, Tradition & Church Structure

• Scripture as the Word of God ([11:54–13:22])

  • Initial agreement that Scripture is God's word, but diverging views on how it operates within the Church.

• The Role of Tradition ([35:33–38:43])

  • Questions on Bible translations, early Church structure, and apostolic succession.
  • Jay: “Where the bishop is, there’s the church…episcopacy was already present in the New Testament.”
  • References to Ignatius, Clement, and recommended Orthodox texts on apostolic succession.

• Canon and Sola Scriptura Challenges ([118:21–123:25])

  • Debates on how Protestants determine the canon of Scripture without an infallible authority.
  • Jay and a caller discuss early church disputes, pseudepigrapha, and Irenaeus’ approach in Against Heresies: The Gospel is known through the Church, not private canon formation.

3. Theology of Angels, Demons, and Free Will

• Nature of Demons & Angelic Beings ([51:52–55:38])

  • Orthodox view: Demons are fallen angels, retain intellectual faculties but possess a perverted will (malice, envy).
  • Because their fall was "outside of time," their rebellion was an act of free will, demonstrating vice can overshadow intelligence.

• The Image of God and Free Will ([76:42–78:14])

  • Humans uniquely made in the image of Christ; angels possess free will but do not bear the image in the same way.
  • Genesis 6 (Nephilim): Jay favors "supernatural" interpretation over the Sethite view.

4. Geopolitics, Resource Control & Balkan History

• Serbia, NATO, and Resource Control ([41:03–50:02])

  • Question about Serbia’s geopolitical situation triggers a breakdown of color revolutions, CIA regime change tactics, and resource exploitation agendas.
  • Jay references the role of economic interests (insurance by Madeleine Albright’s statements) and elite money flows in conflict zones.
  • References Simon Dixon’s economic analysis—the “MIC,” “FIC,” and “TIC” (Military, Financial, Tech Industrial Complexes) as modern global power centers shaping conflicts.

• Ukraine and Modern Wars ([82:05–89:51])

  • Color revolutions, bio-lab revelations, and the U.S. government’s own admissions regarding Ukraine.
  • Jay emphasizes the importance of understanding meta-level manipulations: "conflicts are really opportunities to move money, and the rest of the public has no idea what’s going on." ([43:55])

5. Online Apologetics, Debates & Content Culture

• Commentary on Content and Debating Styles ([69:21–75:40; 91:49–99:07])

  • Jay critiques the quality of Protestant and online debates, noting the lack of structured engagement and depth in modern religious apologetics.
  • Recounts memorable debate “fails,” highlighting the evolution (or devolution) of online theological discourse, and internet’s role in changing apologetic landscapes.

• Advice for Knowledge Acquisition in the Digital Age ([108:23–113:52])

  • Jay shares his path: years of reading, focused discipline, and moving reading habits from “TikTok brain rot” to philosophical and theological works.
  • Offers practical encouragement: “List topics you don’t know about, and watch documentaries or read on those...Try to cultivate a pretty voracious reading schedule.” ([113:52])

6. Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Faith Alone:
  • “I think the New Testament teaches that faith alone is not enough to achieve final salvation. Salvation isn’t a one-time action in the orthodox view.” — Jay ([13:37])
• On Online Debating:
  • “You can do a thousand live streams...people will pick the five times...you got into it with some absolute...Look at him! He’s crazy! All he does is scream and cuss, which is preposterous!” — Jay ([61:06])
• On Resource Wars:
  • “When you get to the level of Bilderberg and Kissinger types, the conflicts are really just opportunities to move money and the rest of the public has no idea what’s going on.” — Jay ([43:55])
• On Knowledge and Study:
  • “Try to cultivate a pretty voracious reading schedule. Don’t get bogged down in one subject...You’re probably going to have a lot of books that you only read half of or a third of. That’s okay.” — Jay ([108:23])
• On Angels’ Fall:
  • “Being envious and malicious can cloud your IQ…having extreme vice or being immersed in evil actually undermines IQ and you just become a slave to the passions.” — Jay ([57:17])

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Section Index / Timestamps

| Timestamp | Segment / Topic | |:-------------:|:------------------------------------------------------| | 12:22–22:41 | Faith alone vs. Orthodox doctrine; nature of salvation | | 35:33–38:43 | Early Church authority and episcopacy | | 41:03–50:02 | Serbia, Balkan geopolitics, color revolutions | | 51:52–55:38 | Demons, angels, intelligence, and will | | 69:21–75:40 | Protestant debate quality and online content critique | | 76:42–78:14 | Free will, image of God, Genesis 6 “sons of God” | | 82:05–89:51 | Ukraine, war narratives, elite manipulation | | 91:49–99:07 | Debate recaps & “worst” call-ins | | 108:23–113:52 | Advice for deep learning in the digital era | | 118:21–123:25 | Sola Scriptura, canon, and tradition debates |

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Conclusion

This episode showcases Jay Dyer’s sharp, sometimes sardonic, approach to live apologetic engagement. The episode weaves theological debate, practical apologetics, spiritual reflections, and critical geopolitical analysis, all within the conversational flow of a community of seekers, skeptics, and Orthodox faithful. Both challenging and accessible, Jay demonstrates the Orthodox commitment to a holistic, patristic approach to salvation and the urgency of historical continuity—while defending nuanced, rigorous inquiry against both theological reductionism and contemporary oversimplification.

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For more detailed breakdowns, see the above timestamps and refer directly to Jay’s exchanges for in-depth arguments.

Transcript

[Jay]

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[Caller - Orthodox Christianity Questioner]

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[Jay]

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[Caller - Orthodox Christianity Inquirer]

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[Jay]

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[Caller - Orthodox Christianity Questioner]

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[Jay]

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[Jay]

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[Jay]

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[Jay]

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[Jay]

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[Jay]

Can you hear me okay? Yes, sir.

[Caller - Orthodox Christianity Questioner]

So I found your YouTube channel a couple months ago, and I'm. I'm just trying to understand some of the things that I've seen.

[Caller - Orthodox Christianity Inquirer]

Oh,

[Caller - Orthodox Christianity Questioner]

Can we just. Just on a base level, just before we even get into it, can we just agree that the scriptures are the word of God? And I understand. I've seen your. Your position. The deuter. What do you call it? Deuterocanical.

[Jay]

The doodle cannon. You talking about the doodle cannon?

[Caller - Orthodox Christianity Questioner]

Yeah. So help. Help me understand. All right. You believe that if. And just correct me if I'm wrong. All right? You believe that we cannot be saved without the being members of the Eastern Orthodox Church. They break it down for me. Yeah.

[Jay]

I mean, I think that the Orthodox Church is the mystical body of Christ. So I don't make determinations of any individual person's destiny. But if you are saved, then it is by some means by which God joins you to that body. So we don't accept the confessions of these other groups as legitimately Christian confessions because they're all variations of some Schism or some split at various points in church history.

[Caller - Orthodox Christianity Inquirer]

And

[Caller - Orthodox Christianity Questioner]

again, I'm always going to preface this what I, what I'm about to say because I don't want to misrepresent you. You don't believe that faith is enough to be saved? Like we have to do things.

[Jay]

Yeah, I think the New Testament teaches that faith alone is not enough to achieve final salvation. Salvation isn't a one time action in the orthodox view.

[Caller - Orthodox Christianity Questioner]

So, so then that's where I, that's where I got confused listening to you the past couple of months is. And, and honestly, Jay, respectfully, I felt a little bit gaslit when you say that because as I'm reading Ephesians and, and I've, I've watched you say this to people when it says, for by grace are you saved? Saved, like past tense. Like I, I, that's where I, like I'm just reading the text and I don't, I don't understand. And that's just one verse. Like, I understand. I've watched you, I've watched you do this. So help me understand. When it says saved, like, are you

[Jay]

telling me, yeah, so I can be saved. I'm being saved and I will be saved when I persevere. So there's no conflict between the verse that you read in my position, because there's a three tiered aspect to the past, ongoing and final perseverance. All of those things con. Constitute, quote, being saved. So if I'm in the life of the church, I was baptized, I am saved. But that doesn't mean that I will necessarily persevere until the end. That's why Jesus says those who persevere until the end are saved.

[Caller - Orthodox Christianity Questioner]

So in Ephesians when it says the Spirit is the guarantee.

[Jay]

Yeah, as long as I don't grieve the Spirit and leave the faith like Hebrews 6 says you can do.

[Caller - Orthodox Christianity Questioner]

So you don't think that that's talking about unbelievers because it says that for those who left us were never truly of us.

[Jay]

Well, John says that, but he's talking about false brethren who infiltrated the church, false teachers who are antichrist. In Hebrews 6 is talking about a different situation. It talks about people who were enlightened and did partake of the Spirit and did taste the life of the world to come and they fell away. So two different types of people.

[Caller - Orthodox Christianity Questioner]

But Jesus says it again though, that, see, this is where I, I lose you, bro. Jesus says it again. He says, depart from me. I never knew you. That same language, you're just.

[Jay]

But you're picking. Yeah, but that doesn't mean there aren't other groups of people that did know him, that did depart from him. Did Judas know him?

[Caller - Orthodox Christianity Questioner]

So let me back up. I'll make sure I'm following. Okay? Yes. Judas absolutely knew him.

[Jay]

Okay, so you have to qualify the knowing there, just like I'm doing.

[Caller - Orthodox Christianity Questioner]

Right. Say it again.

[Jay]

So then you have to qualify, quote, knowing there, just like I'm doing.

[Caller - Orthodox Christianity Questioner]

So. But that's why I'm getting confused, bro. Just hang on. He. He absolutely 100 knew him, but can we say that he believed in him? That's my question.

[Jay]

So, in other words, these verses require interpretation. And one of the things that we have to do when we interpret verses is to make them all work together. In other words, we can't pick and choose the ones and ignore the other ones. Right? So that's why we have to take account of the fact that there are verses, like in Hebrews 6 that say that you can take. Partake of the Holy Spirit and fall away. So that right there shows you that your account of these verses is inadequate.

[Caller - Orthodox Christianity Questioner]

So. So, okay, so let's. Let's do it like this. What your position is not describing the. The actual reality that I'm. I'm living. All right? And what I mean is, is that you're telling me that I can fall away, but then I see verses that say, well, the angels are rejoicing. So you're telling me the angels rejoiced over me?

[Jay]

Oh, well, I mean, do angels have omniscience? The angels don't know if you're going to persevere.

[Caller - Orthodox Christianity Questioner]

But the. The scripture says that they rejoice. So are they rejoice. So let me back up. Let me back up.

[Jay]

Did you not hear what I said? Just to be clear, I think you just want to. You're not listening, and you just want to talk. I used to have your view, man. I had your view 30 years ago. I understand where you're coming from.

[Caller - Orthodox Christianity Questioner]

No, I'm listening to you. I'm listening to you very carefully.

[Jay]

Well, I.

[Caller - Orthodox Christianity Questioner]

What did.

[Jay]

So what did I just. What did I just say? If you're listening, then what did I just say?

[Caller - Orthodox Christianity Inquirer]

You're.

[Caller - Orthodox Christianity Questioner]

You're saying, hey, we have to put. We have to be consistent. We have to put all.

[Jay]

And what did I say about. I answered the angel question. What did I say?

[Caller - Orthodox Christianity Questioner]

They're not omniscient. I understand.

[Jay]

Okay, so. So that.

[Caller - Orthodox Christianity Questioner]

That's not.

[Jay]

So your argument assumes that they're omniscient. And they know that you're going to achieve final perseverance.

[Caller - Post Postmodern Theology]

But how?

[Jay]

They don't know that. How do they know that? So, okay, so your arguments are just assuming your position.

[Caller - Orthodox Christianity Questioner]

Say it again.

[Jay]

The arguments that you're making are really just assuming that your position is the case and that that's the only way to read a lot of these verses. And I'm trying to tell you that, for example, in the Gospel, when Jesus gives the parable of the sower, in that parable, you have some of the seeds spring up to new life and they die. Okay, how does that fit in your model?

[Caller - Orthodox Christianity Questioner]

The seeds spring up and die.

[Jay]

Yeah, the parable of the sower.

[Caller - Orthodox Christianity Questioner]

There was a question I was going to ask you, but before. Before we touch on that, there was a question I was going to ask you, because, again, this is. This is new to me. Okay, so what we're saying, what you're essentially saying, is that God became a man, humiliated himself, lived a perfect life, was betrayed, whipped, brutally beaten.

[Jay]

You don't have to do this. Come on, just make the argument. You don't have to do storytelling. We don't need storytelling. Just make the argument.

[Caller - Orthodox Christianity Questioner]

I'm just. Well, no, bro. Remember, this is my first time dealing with you.

[Jay]

So what's the argument, man?

[Caller - Orthodox Christianity Questioner]

The. The argument is you're telling me that he went through all of that for salvation. I can lose. It doesn't. It doesn't compute. Is my argument that. That's what I like. He. He was humiliated. He was battered, whipped, beaten, humiliated, but naked on a cross for salvation. So.

[Jay]

Well, let's put it this way. So you don't believe that you possess free will. Did you lose free will when you converted?

[Caller - Orthodox Christianity Questioner]

So, no, no, I didn't lose free will, but I was a complete villain, man. I was. I used to deal with drugs. I mean, what I'm saying to you is, is that when the Holy Spirit entered my life and changed me. Yeah.

[Jay]

I'm not denying it.

[Caller - Orthodox Christianity Inquirer]

Okay.

[Jay]

Yeah, I'm not denying that.

[Caller - Orthodox Christianity Questioner]

Well, let me finish. When he. When he changed me, when he changed my life and, and, and. And took away the desires of the things that I wanted to do, there was change. Okay. All right. And. And what you're explaining to us out here in. In Internet world is, is that that can be lost. And, and that is not matching with the actual reality what I'm experiencing every single day. Like, yes. Yeah. I'm not perfect 100. I fail.

[Caller - Mormon Spacewise]

Okay.

[Caller - Orthodox Christianity Questioner]

All the time.

[Jay]

Let me ask you a question. Okay, Let me ask you.

[Caller - Orthodox Christianity Questioner]

Almost done. Bro, just 10 more seconds. Every day I fail in thought, word or deed. But the spirit in me is. Is renewing me. Go ahead, go ahead, go ahead and say what you got to say.

[Jay]

Okay, so Jesus says many things that are a problem for this position, one of which would be if you don't forgive your brethren, your heavenly father will not forgive you. Obviously, he's not talking to atheists. He's talking to people that are his disciples and followers. So is it the case that you can true follower of Jesus and decide to not forgive somebody who wrongs you and then they ask for forgiveness, you decide not to? Isn't it the case that your heavenly father will not forgive you? Oh, beautiful for all of us. Hands in the dirt, hearts in the dust.

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[Jay]

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[Jay]

Yeah, even you.

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[Caller - Orthodox Christianity Questioner]

I don't agree with that. Here's why.

[Jay]

Because you don't agree with that. Colossians says, okay, well then you so look.

[Caller - Orthodox Christianity Questioner]

Hey, so I'll be totally transparent right now. Let me, let me, let me jump on that train. I'll be totally transparent. I have a all with my. My physical blood brother right now. We don't speak, right? All right? I'm struggling with. With even looking at him because of the argument that we had recently.

[Jay]

I had argued with my brother recently. I'm in the same situation.

[Caller - Orthodox Christianity Questioner]

All right? So, so you. So you feel me? Okay? So, so, so I'm struggling. I. I'm like, lord, I don't want to. I don't want to deal with him. I don't want to deal with him. I don't want to look at him. Yes, I can forgive him, but relationship with him, I know that that sin is on the cross now. I'm not, I'm not sitting here Saying that. And see, this is another thing. And just bear with me, okay? This is another thing that troubles me about this, is that people think that when you say, once save, always saved you, you're giving people permission to be pedophiles. No, no, no, no, no. All of this other stuff, when the Holy Spirit comes in you, he convicts you of sin, and you can't. You can't live in sin. So. So what I'm saying is the issue I have with my brother. Yeah, I'm gonna. I'm struggling.

[Jay]

All right, man, look, I get it. I appreciate your call. I appreciate the questions. They are good questions. But again, I mean, Jesus says you gotta. I'm not saying there's. The statement is not saying you have to be a doormat. Okay. If you're relative. I'm not saying this is my situation. But if your relative is doing something criminal or, you know, trying to do something beyond a certain limit. Yeah, you have to have limits, and you have to not have those people in your life. That's a different situation from whether you forgive a person, especially if they. If they ask for forgiveness and you do not forgive them and that you. You know, that's when Jesus is saying, then the Heavenly Father is not going to forgive you. That doesn't mean that you're supposed to, like, let criminals run your life or something like that. That's a different situation. But what he says in that passage is that if you do not forgive, then the Heavenly Father will not forgive you. So, setting aside your own personal situation, or my personal situation or whatever, the passage is clearly saying that his disciples can, if they choose to not forgive people, also not be forgiven. Which is a problem for a lot of these types of one saved, always saved positions. And there's many more passages that are problem too, George. But thank you for the call. George, what's up? Hey, Jamie, could you make me espresso? Aj what's on your mind, man?

[Caller - Orthodox Christianity Inquirer]

I was just gonna say, the only reason I called in, even though I'm an agreer, is that I've had many a conversation similar to the one that you just had where I bring up the parable of the unforgiving servant. And, like, I was in a talk with this one Baptist guy who probably, if I'm being honest, like, knew more scripture than me. But it's weird when I. When you bring up parables, they. They don't know parables. It's like, it's very strategy. I told him, like, hey, this parable says, literally in the beginning, the kingdom of heaven is like this, and then finishes by saying, so too, my heavenly father will do to you.

[Jay]

Right.

[Caller - Orthodox Christianity Inquirer]

And he was just like totally lost. He had no idea how to interpret that. And it was just very odd to me that.

[Jay]

Yeah, I mean, when I was an evangelical, I, I struggled with parables because some of them just didn't line up with the theology. So I wasn't really sure what to do with them. So I, I totally feel you on that. But, but, you know, it's difficult to express as well the fuller sort of orthodox conception of salvation because so many Protestants think of it like it's this, this one time event where you, you know, pray the prayer and you, you have a experience and then you don't like the things that you previously liked. So. And I'm not, I'm not denying that, but there's more to it than that and we see that throughout all the other passages. So nobody's denying that you had an experience or that you. I mean, when I was a Protestant, I know that when I first started reading the Bible, I genuinely felt, you know, a change of heart. I genuinely wanted to act differently, do things differently. And I don't think that we have to say that that's not the work of the Holy Spirit, but it's also perhaps presumptuous to think that, well, maybe the Holy Spirit's calling you to orthodoxy, right? Like, maybe that's also the next step that you need to take beyond just being introduced to some of the basic ideas. And the Bible's a gigantic multiple thousand page, two, three thousand page book, depending on how it's, you know, typeset covering, you know, hundreds and hundreds of years of events and theology and different types of literature. So there's a lot going on and it's kind of.

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[Jay]

I think presumptuous to think that, oh well, that all just boils down to like, confess Jesus as Lord, you know, confess that you're a sinner, and then pray the sinner's prayer. Just think how, like, it's very Americanized. That would only exist in the Billy Graham Americanized ethos. This idea that, well, just prepackaged the salvation as this very simple, you know, repeat a few lines after me thing there. You're good, dude. And that type of idea is so damaging to the religion as a whole that it's just on so many levels. It gives the people delusion, it gives atheists ammo. It makes atheists think that the religion is ridiculous. It's nothing at all like the Christianity, the first thousand years of the church. And so it's just very difficult even to begin with how to approach that question, given that it just doesn't even take into account so many New Testament and Old Testament passages that warn us of apostasy. Why would there be so many warnings of apostasy if there is no such thing as apostasy? And really that's the central problem, I think, for once saved, always saved is that when I was first I was Baptist and believed in one state, always saved. But then I went into Calvinism and that sort of reshuffled that idea for me. But in both positions, I believed in a form of once saved, always saved. And really what kind of clinched it for me was going through a process of struggling with the doctrine of the invisible church. And when I could no longer believe in the doctrine of the invisible church, a lot of these issues kind of also fell away. And I realized that, that every time God has a relationship with his people, there are stipulations. Even the Abrahamic covenant, people don't realize this has stipulations. I'M going from memory, but I want to say it's either Genesis 17 or 22 where God actually does mention stipulations and people think, oh, but Paul says he contrasts Abraham and the Abrahamic covenant to the Mosaic covenant. But actually both covenants have stipulations. Now Paul contrasts them because there are different emphases between the Abrahamic covenant and the Mosaic covenant. But both covenants have stipulations. In fact, God says to Abraham, if you and your descendants are also faithful to walk in my ways, etc. Etc. So this idea that some Protestants have, some Baptists have that the Abrahamic covenant was purely one sided, unilateral, there were no expectations or stipulations on Abraham and his descendants is completely false. And by the way, none of the ancient Hebrew texts interpreted that covenant that way either. So I'm not saying it's true because of how they interpret. I'm just saying that it's a very novel interpretation that comes really way late in the radical Reformation. And I'm speaking there of like the Baptist. So where did we get this idea? Well, it's just kind of made up by people who are 5, 6 levels of schism departed from the ancient church, the church of the first thousand years, which is the church of the second thousand years, which is Orthodox church. So there's really, you know, you don't actually, guys, you don't have to go very deep these days into patristic theology to figure out which of the churches that's out there is still teaching the same stuff. Okay. You really have only got Roman Orthodoxy because it's not going to be Anglican. So when we go over here to this talk that I did for those that want to bypass. I didn't realize this talk was getting a whole lot of views. But every now and then I guess one of the live streams can slip into the algorithm and continue to get views. There's not many of them that do this. I don't really know what is up with it, but the talk that I did on. Where'd it go? Maybe I already took it down. Let's see, I did a talk on Y Pel Volume one because I found all my old notes on that. I read that back in like I don't know, 2003 I think. And that has approaching 100,000 views. Yeah, we're getting up into 76,000 views. Cut off. And so if you want a, an analysis of the first 600 years and this is the, the Pelican text Back in 2020, I did a talk, part one and part two. I want to say three or four hour talk going through that book. It's a very readable book. I recommend everybody read it. But if you can't read it, there's a good introduction to overview. And this is a, a typical book that's used in seminaries and it's not Protestant. I mean, he wrote it when he's Lutheran. He ended up becoming Orthodox. But it's used in quite a few seminaries. So I would say, you know, you don't have to go get a PhD to figure out what the church of the first thousand years taught. Zora, what's up? Hey, Gee, how we doing, brother? Good, what's up? So quick, two questions for you. First of all, thank you and God bless, man. First, one kind of a pop culture one for you. I host these, the daily Bible studies on here and I put like a

[Caller - Orthodox Christianity Inquirer]

daily verse that I choose for that day and I go off of the

[Jay]

Sephir version of the Bible which tries to use the sacred names to restore the sacred names of the, the prophets, the books, so it goes closer to the ancient Hebrew, or at least it tries to. And I'm in Isaiah now. And the way that my version of

[Caller - Orthodox Christianity Inquirer]

the Bible has Isaiah written is called Yeshayahu.

[Jay]

Yeah, that's just a bunch of Judaizing. There's nothing about that that's more faithful to the revelation. So we, we use the Septuagint. The Orthodox study Bible uses Septuagint. We're not interested in those modern Judaized sort of versions of trying to make the apostles. I remember when I was like 19, I bought one of those one time where I was like, oh, I need like the Jewish New Testament because that's more faithful. No, it's not.

[Caller - Orthodox Christianity Inquirer]

Horn.

[Jay]

What's up? What matters is what the apostles use. Well, the apostles use the Septuagint. So why are the apostles using the Greek translation of the Old Testament if somehow what we know of as the Masoretic text is like the real authentic one? It's the same attitude, like Roman Catholics who think that Latin is like magically a more Christian language. And if you, if you say the prayers in Latin, it burns the demons rather than saying it in English. It's just superstitious. What's up, man?

[Caller - Orthodox Christianity Inquirer]

Hey. Hello. My question is in regards to the structure in the first first century church. My question would be basically like, do we actually know how, if, if the early, if the church, because there were different churches in the first century, do we actually know how connected they Were like, were they, did they have a clear idea of what authority was, how authority worked exactly?

[Jay]

Yeah, because it comes out of the Pauline epistles. And then when we read the post Apostolic Fathers, like Ignatius, he says where the bishop is, there's the church. So episcopacy was already present in the New Testament in Acts 1, verse 8. That's the very term that's used. Let another take his office as episcopate when Judas dies. And Paul's letters at Timothy and Titus also give us a very clear picture of, of a hierarchical structure.

[Caller - Orthodox Christianity Inquirer]

Okay.

[Jay]

And that structure is modeled on the Old Testament of high priest, priest, Levite. So bishop, priest.

[Caller - Orthodox Christianity Questioner]

Oh, sorry.

[Caller - Orthodox Christianity Inquirer]

Go ahead, keep going.

[Jay]

No, that was it.

[Caller - Orthodox Christianity Inquirer]

Okay, cool. Do you have like, what's the best, like most exhaustive book on this?

[Jay]

There is an orthodox text on it, but it tends to go out of print. And, but I'm sure you can find plenty of lectures on like the orthodox view of apostolic succession. So that kind of pretty. There's, there's, there's tons of orthodox content now that discusses this, but let me see if that book is still in print that I'm thinking of.

[Caller - Orthodox Christianity Questioner]

Sure.

[Caller - Post Postmodern Theology]

Thank you.

[Jay]

I think it's this one here. Let me see. Yeah, this is it. Apparently you can still buy it at Ancient Faith. It's more of a small book. It's not a full on book. It's called Absolute Succession by Father Gregory Rogers. So I would recommend that little treatise there.

[Caller - Orthodox Christianity Inquirer]

All right, cool. Gregory.

[Jay]

Yeah. And then also, you know, you can read the post Apostolic Father's letters and you, you see it pretty clearly. We create Ignatius and Clement and it's pretty clear that it's not Protestant congregationalism or whatever. Luca, what's up? Fan? Wallen says for $5. Some content creators are saying that people should not be watching long live streams from Orthodox content creators. What do you think of that? My guess would be that's envy in some cases. And you know, you know, just because a person becomes Orthodox doesn't mean they're not susceptible to a lot of the same issues. I'm sure we're going to see quite a bit of envy tomorrow when the, the big biggest podcast out there when that show drops tomorrow. So what's up, man?

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going strong all summer. Cachava's new travel packs help you stick to your daily ritual even when you're on the go. Just one packet of Cachava's all in One Nutrition Shake provides complete nutrition wherever you are. With 25 grams of protein, 6 grams of fiber, greens, adaptogens and more. Simplify your daily ritual. Go to kachava.com and use code fitness for 15 off. That's K A C H-A-V-A.com code fitness

[Caller - Orthodox Christianity Inquirer]

hey, so since today's video done, I

[Jay]

guess just curious what you have to

[Caller - Geopolitics Enthusiast]

say about Serbia and Serbia's role in

[Jay]

European geopolitics, Balkan geopolitics, besides like so I mean I've read some books on the bombing of Serbia, but I'm not an expert in Serbia. So that's a broad, broad question. What do you mean?

[Caller - Geopolitics Enthusiast]

Like with NATO and what like the

[Jay]

NATO empire and the NATO bombing of Serbia? Yeah, I mean we have some older talks that we've done on that where we talked about the CIA's role in that the, you know, targeting of Milosevic, you know, what how they, you know, sort of probably my opinion, they probably concocted the, you know, mass killing accusations against Milosevic. That doesn't mean that he's a was a saint or something like that. But anybody that NATO attacks and goes after, I tend to think they were not the bad guys these days because now I know what they wanted to do long term. Now that I've read a lot of those, you know, NATO CIA guys, it's like, yeah, we want to extend, you know, the Fortune 100, Fortune 500. We want to, you know, make it gay, dude. So. But I remember also there's some good sections I think in and they did this the same way they did all the other ones they did in Serbia. They did otpor, which was the color revolution with the fist and and all that. Unless I'm mixing up Serbia with. No, I think that's right. They didn't. They wouldn't have to do a color revolution in Poland. So it's Serbia that had ought poor. That was all where they've one of the first places they tested out the gene sharp model of color revolution with the Einstein Institute, which is just CIA stuff about the way that they would do regime change versus the Older models of regime change that we covered in old boys when it was OSS and CIA adventurism. So. But there's also, I remember, I think Madeline Albright discussed years ago, before the. The Clinton stuff that I'm going from memory here. I think Bilderberg had also mentioned that they wanted to do this because there's significant mineral resources that are going on, or, excuse me, that it can be mined there. So it's not just geostrategic location, kind of like Ukraine versus Russia, because historically Serbia, you know, is a. A kind of pro Russian area. So same with Ukraine, split it off of Russia. So that's the geopolitical tactical side of it. But I also remember that I just covered. Oh, no, this is not the right talk. Another.

[Sponsor/Announcer]

Another

[Jay]

podcast that gets into this that I listen to that's very dense. In fact, a lot of this is over my head because this is just so packed with anytime. Super packed with geopolitical information. This recent Simon Dixon podcast on BTC sessions was really good, and he kind of gave an angle that most people don't give when it comes to these big geopolitical things. So. And his analysis is what's the economic mechanism behind the Iran war? And that if you look at money flows, you can kind of get a better assessment of actually what's going on with these wars than if you're reading the headlines. And so he argues that kind of Stock Bros. And Finance Bros. And these kinds of people, or like, even, even people super into Bitcoin, can get kind of an edge on what's happening with the wars, because the wars aren't just happening over religion and ideology and ethnicity. They're also happening in regards to money flows and resource attainment and contracts that were already signed ahead of time to, you know, basically say, bomb Gaza and then revitalize it, turn it into Trump's, I don't know, casino land or whatever his idea was to do with Kushner and everybody in the. In that area. And so the money flows are a good indicator of what might be going on. And I don't know how Simon Dixon does it, but he's able to tie in, like, all of these things, like what. What did China want Trump to do here, there, blah, blah, blah. I'm not saying that everything he says is right. I'm just saying that this is seemingly a plausible scenario because this actually explains why the wars seem to happen. The Iran war seems to happen, like, in terms of business hours. Like, the war stops when business hours stop. And he makes a great Point too, as we've highlighted as well, that a lot of people don't understand Trump's announcements. They think, oh, these Trump announcements, they don't make any sense. They're, you know, he. One day he says the war's on, then he says they've reached a peace deal. Well, Trump and the administration has known going back to forever. This is what we learned in the Rothschild biography. News announcements like that affect the markets. And so you can actually make an announcement and move the money around because you know that the announcement, announcement of the ceasing of the war, the market goes back up. When you announce war, it goes back down. So you can actually trade the market based on these types of announcements. This was literally what the Rothschild family built their empire doing, as we saw from the authorized biography that we covered yesterday. So I would say probably all of the conflicts have this angle. And in fact, Madeleine Albright's statement, I think about Serbia way, way, way, way back, was reflecting that very reality. So when you get to the level of sort of Bilderberg and Brzezinski and Kissinger types, and this is what we saw reflected in the Epstein emails with Oren de Rothschild at that level, you're talking about people that understand that the conflicts are really just opportunities to move money and the rest of the, of the public has no idea what's going on. So I'm sure there are many, you know, solid analyses of what was going on in Serbia. People are mentioning books in the chat, but I don't, I don't know much. I haven't read all those books. I've read three books that touched on the Balkan conflicts. So, you know, it's not an area that I'm any kind of expert in. And I don't think Simon Dixon's talking about the Balkans in this, in this very in depth podcast. But the principles that he mentions are very relevant, especially when it gets into MIC TIC and IFC or fic. And that's a good classification structure that you'll probably begin to see people using because it represents the real power centers nowadays as opposed to nation states. So MIC is obviously military, military industrial complex. He argues that this is really what Israel and Netanyahu represent. There's the financial industrial complex, which is like the Federal Reserve and all that kind of stuff. And that's in his analysis, kind of what Trump represented. So a lot of the decisions about Iran are the collusion of those two. And then you have the tic, which is the tech industrial complex. And so this is the long Term goal of the universal basic income, the, you know, tracking and tracing system, all of that that we saw really push during the kuf, the World Economic Forum sort of ideology. So these are kind of the big three that are sort of vying for where things are going to go. Obviously all the AI stuff fits into the tech industrial complex. So his thesis is that these wars are actually just sort of in the meantime skirmishes as everything is moving in the long term towards tic. So essentially mic and fic financial industrial complex will eventually sort of cave to tic. The tech industrial complex. China plays a huge role in that because of, of what they want with, you know, basically a Chinese Internet surveillance style system for the world ultimately, if, if they have the upper hand down the road. He ties that into the belt and road initiative and all that. So anyway, I, I found this to be very instructive and I think many of you will as well, but. Adi, what's up, Adr? Do you want to unmute me? Adl. Adi, whatever it is, the adl. What's up man? You're not gonna talk?

[Caller - Orthodox Christianity Questioner]

All right,

[Jay]

Eric, what's. Welcome, everybody. We're having a good late night discussion here. We got a nice cozy audience. If you'd like to send a super chat, feel free to do so through streamlabs. Or you can also do it natively through YouTube if you'd like. You can also call in right there on that X link. Eric, you want to unmute?

[Caller - Orthodox Christianity Questioner]

Hey, Jay.

[Jay]

Hey, what's on your mind?

[Caller - Orthodox Christianity Inquirer]

Hey, just keep doing what you're doing. We had a new guy this morning at Divine Liturgy. Stay for coffee hour.

[Jay]

Cool.

[Caller - Orthodox Christianity Inquirer]

Yeah.

[Caller - Orthodox Christianity Questioner]

So second thing, I think probably thousands

[Caller - Orthodox Christianity Inquirer]

of other guys ever probably asked you already, but will you become a Saiyan already so we can take your name when we get Chrismated? I know that's out of your control.

[Jay]

Maybe I'll. I'll try to keep striving. You guys pray for me. I don't. I don't know about all that. I got quite a bit of vices I still got to overcome, but thank you for that. Hopefully, hopefully that'll happen one day with God's grace, but. Cody, what's up? Appreciate you having that positive attitude.

[Caller - Orthodox Christianity Inquirer]

Hey man, can you hear me?

[Caller - Orthodox Christianity Questioner]

Huh?

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[Caller - Orthodox Christianity Inquirer]

Okay, so I'm, I'm kind of new into looking into to orthodoxy and I've been trying to answer a lot of questions. I have the big one that I'm wondering. I understand the, the position on demons is that they're real, like extra, I guess, disembodied beings. But when I try to understand like the mind of a demon or I guess the orthodox conception of what a demon thinks. Do they are demons like in orthodoxy, like pop culture? Like, do they have like wisdom about like mathematics and can like things like that? Are they intelligent, like really beyond human intelligent beings?

[Jay]

Yeah, we would say that they are fallen angels. And so sometimes the angels are called the intelligences or they were used to be called the celestial intelligences, that kind of stuff. So when they fell, they did retain, you know, their knowledge and their natural faculties and capabilities. But what was bent was their will. And so their will pretty much just consistently uses the knowledge or the power that they have have to undermine humanity. Because humanity is made in the image of God according to Christ. One of the reasons that the devil and his angels fell was out of envy. They did not believe that humankind should be saved and should be given a kind of status above the angels that we would be given in the eschaton. So that envy is sort of the root of their malice towards human beings. But when they fell, they fell before man did, out of time. Because they're beings that exist in. In an out of time or aeon dimension, you could say. So their, their testing was in an instant. Whereas we as created temporal beings, we exist in time. Our testing occurs over, you know, our lifetime. Their testing was in an instant. So they immediately fell and thus became eternally malicious against. Against God and against his people.

[Caller - Orthodox Christianity Inquirer]

Yeah, I guess my follow up is if they're, and this is not like a gotcha thing, but like if they're so intelligent, why would they do something A, so is to have that rebellion or that rebellious envious thought knowing where it would lead. And B, is were they in heaven and in heaven are they able to see sin or like be tempted with envy and sins? Like can there be sin in heaven? Like it's did, did Satan sin? And that' cast out in heaven.

[Jay]

Right. So the testing of the angels was not necessarily in heaven. It was what's called the angelic realm is called the Aon A I O N. That's the timeless created realm that the Church fathers and the Orthodox Church speaks of. So in that sense, no, they weren't like sinning in the throne room of God up in the third heavens or something. They exist in a different dimension or a spiritual reality which still exists with the Aeon, the timeless created spiritual realm. So they still exist in that dimension or that realm, the spiritual realm, as do the angels and as do perhaps human souls as well. So. And in our. Our souls are. That reality is also part of this reality. So in our conception, we don't totally understand how the spiritual realm works, but it seems to work in that way according to the orthodox tradition. So they fell, though, because it's not a matter of iq, right? You can have a super high IQ and be evil. This is the whole idea behind an evil genius. And I'm not saying that you are making this argument, but a lot of times people think, well, if the devil has a high iq, why did he fall? Well, because virtue is not necessarily equivalent to high iq. You can be very intelligent and be extremely wicked.

[Caller - Orthodox Christianity Questioner]

Could.

[Jay]

So virtue is beyond that. Virtue has to do with using the skills and the. The tech, you know, the talents that you have. Rightly so. So the devil fell from envy and maliciousness and being envious and malicious can cloud your iq, such that you can have like high IQ and get all kinds of crazy things in your head, right? I mean, again, think of the evil genius, right? We were just. Jamie and I were just talking yesterday about movie villains, and we were talking about how, you know, movie villains always do the same things they do. The villain gloat. And it's like you're always wondering, why are you gloating over James Bond? You could just kill him and you would win. But there's something perceptive in that, in that. That the villain gloat is part of the psyche of the narcissistic evil person, right? They have. Because they're really obsessed with themselves. They have to sort of get that fix, you could say, through gloating and showing that they wanted their superior. But that ends up being in. Even in fiction, right? The undoing of the bad guy because he can't control his own pride and vanity. And so that gets the best of him. And of course, James Bond can always get out of the trap and he can defeat Blofeld because Blofeld had to gloat and give James Bond more time to get free. So the big moral of the story here is if you're going to be an evil genius, don't do villain glow.

[Caller - Mormon Spacewise]

Just kill people.

[Jay]

I'm joking. Yeah, but what I'm saying is that sounds kind of silly. But what I'm saying is that. That even that literary trope that we all know about villains is an insight into the fact that having extreme vice or being immersed in evil actually undermines the, quote, IQ and you actually just become a slave to the passions. So really, it doesn't even matter that you have IQ because the IQ is really just sort of utilized to your own destruction. So, I mean, in the same way that you could say, but why would the devil do that? Well, why do really intelligent people destroy themselves?

[Caller - Orthodox Christianity Questioner]

Right?

[Jay]

We do this. We say the same thing when we see, you know, really blessed, talented, creative people. Well, this guy's got it, all, right? And then he's like, you'd find out, oh, he was in a gay relationship with some trans person on whatever, and he was smoking crack. And it's like, why would you leave your wife and kids for that? You see what I'm saying? So it's like, it's not even an IQ question. And I think there's a sort of madness that goes along with evil, too. Like, you just kind of go crazy. And sometimes the more successful and the more high IQ you are, you go even crazier. So hopefully I've learned. Helped you guys to learn how to become more effective bond villains through telling you to skip over villain gloat. Late night says for $10. Jay, did you ever read the book Face of Christ in the Old Testament? It's by an orthodox writer named George Baroy. What do you think of it, Neil? I don't. I've not heard of that, but I'm glad you mentioned it, because when people asked this question the other night, I was like, I wish there was a good orthodox book that talked about typology of Christ in the Old Testament Because I'm only familiar with a bunch of protestant books on it. So it would be good if we do have a kind of a go to orthodox book on the it D. Joel says, don't stop. Get it, get it. Okay, I'll try. In the Phil says my nickname in high school was Doo Cannon. Yeah, I hope somebody thought that was funny. When that guy called in, he was like, would you call it the Do Doo Cannon? Yeah, the Doo Cannon, dude. That's it. S City $10. What's up, man? Rui says that guy needs some catechesis. Don't Try to learn all this stuff on your own.

[Caller - Mormon Spacewise]

Own.

[Jay]

Yeah, well, I did all that. All of that the wrong way on my own for 20, however many years. So. Yeah, exactly. Crowns, $10. If you live your life testifying before God and you do not love him, why would he then bring you into heaven to violate your free will? That doesn't make sense to me. Well, I also was just noticing. I don't know if I.

[Caller - Orthodox Christianity Questioner]

You.

[Jay]

I mean, don't you think you have. Most. Most Protestant evangelicals think you have free will? They're not. Most of them are not Calvinists. So it's like, how do you. How do you have free will if you're once saved, always saved. Like, you can't not be saved even if you don't want to be. I mean, I know a lot of. There's a lot of evangelical pastors who. They go from that to be an atheist. Right. You've seen this probably on YouTube and TikTok the last several years. People deconstructing their faith.

[Caller - Orthodox Christianity Inquirer]

Faith.

[Jay]

And several of the deconstruction people are like former evangelical pastors, and they formerly believe fervently in one saved, always saved. So did they. They don't have free will. Like, they can't. Like God's gonna force them to be. It just doesn't make it stupid. Doesn't make any sense. Andrew says for 10 bucks, let's see Trent Horn do a decade of. Of doo doo cannon call ins and then talking about him being charitable. It is a challenge. And I do think that a lot of people are unfair in the way that they've characterized the call ins over the years, because they act like I'm this horrible, mean person, and all I do is scream and yell at people, which is totally not true. Like, that's very minimal in terms of, like, getting loud to talk over the people that are actually trying to talk over me. And so, like, you can do a thousand live streams of a thousand hours of live streams, and people will pick the, you know, five times in a thousand live streams that you, like, got into it with some absolute. Look at him. He's crazy. All he does is scream and cuss, which is preposterous. Totally not true. Zach says, for $30. Let me be transparent. I'm actually retorted. I think he's quoting. Yeah, he's quoting the classic Alex Jones Joe Rogan appearance where Alex.

[Caller - Mormon Spacewise]

Let me.

[Jay]

Let me just be transparent right now.

[Caller - Mormon Spacewise]

I'm kind of.

[Jay]

Okay, yes. That's a classic Lord Voldemort. Well, the funny thing you mentioned Too about Trent. Like Trent doesn't do Collins. I mean, as far as I know, maybe he does it on some sort of Catholic answers radio show. I don't know if he does, but I mean, I've not seen him do sort of, you know, YouTube live stream call ins. I guarantee you, if he did it like we do it, like, he would have periods of, shall we say, being less patient than he and less nice guy than he appears to be. Crowns, $5. What do you think about the theory that Nikola Tesla was actually getting information from demons and that through dreams there was advanced technology? I do know that Nikola Tesla did eventually get into theosophy at a certain point. I don't know if he died believing in theosophy or if he went back to serving orthodoxy. I don't know the full story of what his thought process was. I do know that he had a period of that, which, you know, is kind of unfortunate. But, you know, sometimes eccentric genius people can get into kind of weird cult type stuff. So, you know, was he getting these ideas from the spiritual realm or was it his own innate genius? Who knows? I do think it's possible that demonic entities can inspire people and give them ideas. In John C. Lilly's autobiography, he speaks that way. He says that every time he would do the ketamine or LSD or whatever, he would go into the float tank and he would get entities, he says, giving him ideas. So I do think that's possible. It's not alien, so it'll do Sh5 dollars.

[Sponsor/Announcer]

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[Jay]

Why did you decide to debate Jake again? Well, so this is actually a bunch of different debates that got shuffled around. It's been shuffled around like five different times. So this, this had to do with people. James, who does mdd, looking for other people to debate. Andrew wasn't able to do that debate because he had two other debates scheduled. So James asked if I would step in and yeah, sure, I'll do that. And then I think he's also found a different Muslim to do so. I'LL be doing, I think, two Muslim debates. But that's why I just got shuffled around from different people not being able to do certain debates. And I was like, yeah, sure, I'll do that. Oh, and I forgot to mention, yes, here's the. There is a ticket for my audience. So I think you guys get a discount, 20 off if you use the link from my referral. Let's see, where is it at? Yeah, so if you go to debate, if you do want to go to debatecon8, this is July 25th in Dallas. I don't think that it's sold out. This is the referral link code for my audience. And I think you guys get $20 off. I think there's different tiers. Use the promo code 20 from Jay right there and you get 20 off. If you guys can see that. So I'll put this here in the chat if you guys don't want to come out to that. I will also be at DebateCon in Orlando and DebateCon in Phoenix. So I think Phoenix is where there's going to be Trent and then DebateCon in Orlando is the two David Wood debates dates. So there's the link if you guys want to go there. I don't have anything to do with the tickets or the prices. That's all James. That's all mdd. So don't fuss at me if you don't like anything about it. I have nothing to do with this other than this is for my audience. So that's up to you guys. If you want to do it, I will be signing books and selling books. So if you do want to come get your book signed, I will be able to do that at DebateCon 8, July 25th in Dallas at the. I think I've actually stayed at this hotel on the Lyndon Johnson Freeway there. We've gone to Dallas a bunch, but I might be able to swing down to maybe Lord Voldemort as well if we do that trip. So we'll see. I don't think he's got the tickets ready for the one in Orlando or the one in Phoenix, but shout out to all my KGB comrades out there, Doyle, what's up? Yeah, you get the KGB discount if you put. I'm going to tell them next time to put the. Make the code KGB dire and you get 20 dugan coin off of your. Your purchase. What's up, man?

[Caller - Orthodox Christianity Questioner]

Doyle.

[Jay]

Oh, Doyle, what's up?

[Sponsor/Announcer]

Doyle?

[Jay]

I'm mute. Last chance. Okay, Animator. What's up, man? Animator. What's up? Can you guys not hear Me? Do you not want to unmute? I don't understand. Hello?

[Caller - Orthodox Christianity Questioner]

Yo.

[Jay]

Hey.

[Caller - Orthodox Christianity Questioner]

Oh, I don't really have anything to say.

[Jay]

Awesome, dude.

[Caller - Orthodox Christianity Questioner]

I just joined first.

[Jay]

Yeah, thank you. Kevin Ruse. What's up, Kievan Roost? What's up, man?

[Caller - Orthodox Christianity Inquirer]

Hey, can you hear me? Hey, Jason. I've been reading some St. Gregory Palmas lately and I got over this part where he was talking about how Enoch was translated, but Christ says that no one has ascended into heaven but the one who came down from heaven.

[Jay]

The orthodox view is that Enoch and Elijah. The orthodox view is that Enoch and Elijah went to paradise.

[Caller - Orthodox Christianity Inquirer]

Okay, good to know, because I've been looking for some church fathers interpretation on that.

[Caller - Mormon Spacewise]

But

[Caller - Orthodox Christianity Inquirer]

yeah, also I see Alex's in the chat. He had a great debate the other day. But one thing that I'm noticing about these Protestant debates is like, unless you have someone that is very traditional Protestant, you just get a million different things. Like nobody has the same view. So you're debating a new form of Protestantism.

[Jay]

Yeah, well, that's. Yeah, exactly. And also they don't actually know how to conduct the debate. So that's another frustration is that they have no idea even what fallacies are or how you, you know, are supposed to conduct cross examination. I mean, that guy was just like. I mean, that guy's no business ever trying to defend Protestantism. And I think I was reading the comments. Underneath the debate on Jim Bob's channel is like tons of people saying this is actually the worst debater I've ever seen. So I think that's. That's really. So I think, you know, when it comes to that tier, whether it's Mahler and JP and Kelly, whatever his name is, I mean, these are just like, literally the lowest of the lowest tiers. And that's actually a sign of like victory for us because nobody else will step up. Like, where are. Where's the Protestant guy that will come defend, you know, Sola Scriptura? Where's the Protestant guy that's ready to jump up and defend justification by faith alone? I mean, 10 years ago there was probably 50 of those that would. But where are all these, like, they just. They were just retired. They try to pull a. A fake juke retirement, like me. Where are all these people? I don't understand. There used to be, you know, Protestant apologists out the wazoo. Ten years ago you couldn't turn on a. I mean, if I. But it was the same way with Dawa too, right? Like when I would turn on the open space debates, like three or Four years ago, I mean, we would be flooded with Muslims in here, here. I don't remember the last time we've even had a Muslim call in. So I think the Internet sphere is damaging these positions way worse than even most of us are realizing. I think the Internet was so devastating to Dawa, especially the fresh and fit debate that we did had like 4 or 5 million views total with all the clips. I mean, I think that this stuff is just, I mean, even I get surprised like how, you know, how effective a lot of the Internet stuff that we're doing actually is. Because, you know, I see what I do in my sphere and I see the numbers and I mean, they're decent numbers. We've got, you know, a good sized audience and it's, it's a steady, gradual growth. But even to me, you know, it doesn't feel like it's that expansive, but maybe it just is. Maybe, maybe this is way more than we realize, but who knows? I mean, I see, I mean a lot of churches have tripled, so that's a good sign. But even that it's, you know, relatively speaking, Orthodoxy is still kind of small. So even if we triple the churches and even if we have as Deacon Roland estimated 20,000 converts last year,

[Caller - Orthodox Christianity Inquirer]

I

[Jay]

mean, I think my guess is it's going to be exponential and it's, perhaps it's speeding up because, because the nobody will, will come and defend their positions. It's just, it's just so kind of baffling. They all folded like so quick, dude. I thought, thought, okay, we're gonna have, you know, a ten year battle with Roman Catholics and the Protestants and the Muslims and it's like, no, they all pretty much just folded. They just, they all gave up. So I, I mean, I even saw a voice of reason. Somebody sent me a clip of him today and he said, when I was, when I was, when I DOD apologetics, I looked at the orthodox argumentation and basically the, the orthodox argumentation is just the same as the Protestant. It's the same as the Protestants. It's like, dude, you did like two debates, so like maybe three. What are you talking about? And you didn't do that good. So you're not in a position to declare like everyone else failed at deb when you're not even debating anymore. Like you, you got caught, had to retire, but you're still talking smack behind your paywall that orthodox apologetics is done and it's Protestant. That is a joke, man. Gooberman, what's up? The gods made an error. What's up, man? Yeah, he talks mad smack behind a paywall. And you know what's funny? What? If you watch the UBI debate, the last one he did was with Ubiquitous, and UBI went really high tier. And I mean, it was so out of the wheelhouse of anything that voice of reason was able to grapple with. And voice of reason just kept turning it to why should we believe? What's up, man? Last chance. All right, Blake, what's up?

[Caller - Orthodox Christianity Inquirer]

Hello.

[Jay]

Hey.

[Caller - Orthodox Christianity Inquirer]

So I've been, I guess, acquiring orthodoxy for the past few months, and I've been looking. I saw some stuff about Old calendarism, and I had a few questions about Old calendarism.

[Jay]

And what convinces me of Old Calendarism? Well, do you mean the calendar itself or are you talking about, like, schismatic, tiny, little true Orthodox groups because Rokor is old calendar, or are you talking about the schismatic groups? Specific schismatic group.

[Caller - Orthodox Christianity Inquirer]

I was looking up something. They're called the Genuine Orthodox Church. They're out of Denver.

[Caller - Orthodox Christianity Questioner]

But.

[Jay]

No, we're not doing that. Karen, what's up? I just covered all of this.

[Caller - Orthodox Christianity Inquirer]

On

[Jay]

which live stream? This live stream. We just. We spent a whole hour on this, like, two days ago. Know, maybe the first hour of this one. In their Ancient canons. Was it this one?

[Caller - Orthodox Christianity Inquirer]

History. Rewriting history to me.

[Jay]

Yeah, this one. So the first hour we cover the wandering bishop phenomenon. And if you want to link yourself up with a bunch of spooks, kooks, and mentally ill people, have at it, man, you're going to wish you didn't. Karen, are you going to say anything or.

[Caller - Orthodox Christianity Questioner]

No, I don't.

[Jay]

People must be having a hard time. Lp, what's up, lp? Yo, I was tripping out because I'm, like, seeing myself, but then I'm seeing myself, like, what's going on? Dude? Dude, the whole first hour or so of this is addressing the wandering bishops phenomena. And I think the best way to address the wandering bishops is to not even go into the theology because it's. It's a waste of time and it only appeals to kind of like online spurgey people. Anyway, all you need to know is, like, this is a realm of lunatics. Lp, what's up? Yep, hi.

[Caller - Orthodox Christianity Inquirer]

I have a. I. I have a few questions, if that's okay.

[Jay]

Okay.

[Caller - Orthodox Christianity Questioner]

I was.

[Caller - Orthodox Christianity Inquirer]

I was wondering what the orthodox view is on free will in relation to the image of God and what your view is on Genesis 6. So my first question is.

[Jay]

Yeah, so we believe that free will is integral to human nature, so to be made in the image of God includes the property of having the freedom of choice.

[Caller - Orthodox Christianity Inquirer]

Yeah. So my question to that is that if angelic beings have free will, does that mean that they have the image of God?

[Jay]

Angels are in the image of God to a degree, but not in the same way that human beings are, because actually humans are made in the image of Christ. So we think that Christ is the second person of the Godhead. And in the Garden of Eden the mankind is made in the image of Christ. So angels were not in that sense made in the image of Christ to be destined to a higher degree of theosis. And that's, as we said earlier, what made the angelic beings envious of man. But insofar as angels have a hypostasis, they have a created hypostasis, they have a created personhood and subject, they have a free will, they have the use of reasoning. And so in that regard they are in those ways, like God or in God's image.

[Caller - Orthodox Christianity Inquirer]

I see, thank you. My second question is on Genesis. Genesis 6:1:4. Do you take the supernatural view or the Sethite view?

[Jay]

I have always favored the supernatural view.

[Caller - Geopolitics Enthusiast]

I see.

[Caller - Orthodox Christianity Inquirer]

Thank you.

[Jay]

Appreciate those questions. I think we have done some longer streams recently on the nephilim type of stuff. Jake. What's up, Jake? Jake, not the Muslim metaphysician. What's up up, Jake? I'm you.

[Sponsor/Announcer]

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[Jay]

Hello? Oh, sorry, sorry, sorry.

[Caller - Orthodox Christianity Questioner]

I.

[Caller - Orthodox Christianity Inquirer]

I've been going on a big deep dive with your tag. Oh, excuse me, with your tag videos. And I'm having trouble finding any source material for it. Like, you know, you've got cons, transcendental arguments, you've got a bunch of different types that kind of vary from yours. So I didn't know if you had like a. Your arguments.

[Jay]

I mean, there are a whole bunch of books. I mean, you could get anything by Greg Bonson, like always ready. You could get Greg Bonson's giant book, Van Till's Apologetic. There's a smaller book by Dr. Jason Lyle called I'm Going blank on the name of that book. It's Jason Lyle's little book on the transcendental argument. If you look that up, you'll find it L I L I S L E Lyle. And then in the discord, Father Deacon Dr. Ananias has probably five or six papers on transcendental argument.

[Caller - Orthodox Christianity Inquirer]

Okay, so you are of the Ventilian school then?

[Jay]

Well, I mean Orthodox Christian, so I don't obviously hold to all of the erroneous positions of until, but.

[Caller - Orthodox Christianity Inquirer]

Right.

[Jay]

To make it simple. Yeah, I agree with a lot of, a lot of the way that he presented the argument. Sure.

[Caller - Orthodox Christianity Inquirer]

Okay. That, that actually kind of touches on my next question. Since Vancel was I think Presbyterian.

[Caller - Orthodox Christianity Questioner]

Right.

[Caller - Orthodox Christianity Inquirer]

Does tag hold up when you kind of get to its foundation? If it's not arguing for the God of orthodoxy, like if you have a Catholic God at some level, is the argument not going to hold if that makes sense?

[Jay]

Yes, yes. A lot of my older podcasts, five, six, seven years ago, a lot of the talks that we did with FDA father to get an is, we're actually grappling with that quite a bit. There's probably, probably, probably 20 live streams where I'm not trying to be a dick, I'm just saying like yeah, we, we. Yeah, yeah. There's a bunch of old podcasts where we actually address that very issue.

[Caller - Orthodox Christianity Inquirer]

Okay, I think that's it, man.

[Jay]

Yeah man, great questions. Absolutely.

[Caller - Orthodox Christianity Questioner]

Appreciate it.

[Jay]

And then also fda, he has a whole On Patrick Faith channel. He has a playlist that he goes through and he's. I'm sure he's got a bunch of a reference material on his playlist. So the channel is Patric Faith and if you look at playlist there's one that's just a giant tag playlist and it has a bunch of the old ones that I mentioned in that playlist. George, what's up man? Hey dude, how are you? Good.

[Caller - Geopolitics Enthusiast]

Hey. Earlier you're talking about

[Caller - Post Postmodern Theology]

how the CIE

[Caller - Geopolitics Enthusiast]

cover, color revolutions everything and looking how stuff goes on throughout the world. I was doing some research in Ukraine. I was listening to Alex's channel a couple days ago and someone got on there talking about how bad one of the someone from Russia was a leader in the Orthodox church was talking or he prayed for some soldiers and that was some sort of big deal. But then when you look into like just even the open source information just from mainstream like news websites and then the recent release from the Fry by Tulsi Gabbard for the DNI stuff, I mean they talked about this Stuff openly and just people just seem to memory hold it even from just three years ago.

[Jay]

But wait, by what, by this stuff. What do you mean?

[Caller - Geopolitics Enthusiast]

Like the, the Ukraine conflict.

[Jay]

Okay, yeah.

[Caller - Geopolitics Enthusiast]

They didn't talk about how, you know, first the, she wasn't the ambassador, but Victoria Newland I'm sure you're familiar with.

[Jay]

Oh yeah, yeah. She was saying that they would use State Department money to do that. Do all. And Soros says the exact same thing. We, in fact, we just did it the other day. We played a, a series of Soros clips where he was bragging about being behind all that.

[Caller - Geopolitics Enthusiast]

Oh yeah. Well now we even have the own, you know, government document saying like. Oh yeah, if you look at the open source docs that they released that they declassified, it shows like from like 2010, they were building these weapons labs or these research centers, they called them.

[Jay]

Yeah, I knew about that. Yeah, I knew that. I knew about that in 20, 19, 18 or 19 because I went to, I spoke at AV9 in the UK and there was a woman named Deliana who gave a talk on the biolabs that they were being set up. She did that in 2017, 18. And I know that other people had discussed the existence of biolabs even before her. But yeah, we've known that for a long time. And then I think I saved it in my bookmarks here. Tulsi Gabbard was talking about. No, I'm thinking of Russia Gate. Russia Gate relates to it. But I want to tell you, having

[Caller - Geopolitics Enthusiast]

the nuance to like look at all the information and come up with a reasonable thing and where you talk about, look, you're going to have two bad actors at the same time. It doesn't mean every person in one group is bad. Doesn't mean every group of the person is bad or the other group is bad. Like you can have bad actors in key pivotal positions. It doesn't mean. And you can still dislike them. Like, you talk about the time you could be against Islam, right About, you know, from a field theology point of view and also, you know, social societal pushes that they do, but also realize, hey, we don't need to ally these guys against, you know, the social norms of what's going on in the U.S. you know, we can have two separate. Like this could be good on one side, but also could be bad in that same sort of group, depending on what they choose to do. So I appreciate the nuance you provide for that, not just in theology but in like the, the geopolitics stuff that you push because It's a, it's hard for a lot of people, I think, to not have that same sort of

[Jay]

thinking where it's like, yeah, tell me about it.

[Caller - Geopolitics Enthusiast]

This side or the other side?

[Jay]

Tell me about it.

[Caller - Geopolitics Enthusiast]

I mean, so I appreciate you have that patience, man.

[Jay]

I.

[Caller - Geopolitics Enthusiast]

Sometimes it's annoying when people call.

[Jay]

It's like, oh man, this seems bad, you know? Well, the worst part was the past couple days of commenting on Matt Walsh stuff because, oh yeah, all of those people were so like, okay, so Matt Walsh calls out Hassan Piker and I'm like, do you really think Hassan Piker is running? Dude, are you serious? And then, and then all the comments underneath that are like, why are you pro commie? Why are you pro Muslim? Why are you pro commie? We gotta call me. I'm like, yeah, how do you get that I'm pro commie? It's just people are so easily inclined to think in, in these dialectics, which are super low tier. Right?

[Caller - Orthodox Christianity Questioner]

Yeah.

[Caller - Geopolitics Enthusiast]

And I think you're, I think you're right on with that. And I think that as I've gotten older, because I'm, I'm 41, so. And I know you're in your 40s too, so it's like young. When I was younger, would 20 year old me been able to think like that? Maybe not. I maybe just went with what was being told to me by people that I trust at that time.

[Jay]

Sure.

[Caller - Geopolitics Enthusiast]

But then after you get older and you get a little bit of wisdom and you look around like, wait a minute, how come you're saying this one thing on this hand and then, you know, now with the Internet, it could be two years later, it could even less than that, we see complete counter evidence to what was actually being said. Where before it might have taken decades by some guy that was part of

[Jay]

it and wrote a book about it,

[Caller - Geopolitics Enthusiast]

you know, 40 years later.

[Caller - Mormon Spacewise]

Yeah.

[Jay]

And that's why we made it such a crucial thing on my channel to regularly lecture through global elite books. And we've done that for, for 10 years now. We just did the Rothschild's biography yesterday. So you can't really understand the big picture unless you, you know, put the time and effort into, to trying to do that. And it is a vast undertaking. And I'm certainly not, I mean, I don't think anybody could in their entire lifetime master all of this material, but you couldn't get a pretty good picture of what's going on. And that's kind of what we strive to do. And you know, it's just so unfortunate with this. So many people in the, you know, the so called conservative sphere, especially Con Inc. It's just so stupid. It's so dumbed down. And you know, when David Wood made his video, he's just repeating everything that is in the neocon fake media. And you know we try to always have that macro meta level analysis. And I have that perspective because I went through all the same stuff everybody else does, right. I was when I was 2019, I mean I was just mainline Normie GOP Baptist. My dad was in the military, he was in the navy. So I was raised as a, a Republican Baptist kid. So you gotta vote against the libs. I voted for George Bush when he ran in, I don't know, was it 98 or 2000 whenever Bush was running. And I didn't really start thinking about anything beyond that Normie left, right dialectic until I started getting into the conspiracy stuff. So conspiracy was a great gateway. Even though a lot of conspiracy stuff stuff is. It's just like probably, I don't know, when you look up, you know online you go on tick tock and it's like, you know, people are. We have a. I have a theory that Garth Brooks is a serial killer because everywhere that Garth Brooks goes there's a serial killer event. So Garth Brooks must be a satanic just yet all of history has been a lie. And the mud flood, it's like there's all this, which is a lot of disinformation and grifters, but at least in. And we all go through these sort of phases, right? I've been through all these phases. I read the alien stuff in the 2000s. I read ancient technology, civil civilization stuff. Oh yeah, maybe there's, maybe there's alien tech. I had these phases too. And then I think after. Over time you realize, oh okay, well so what's really going on is like the kind of that Simon Dick Dixon's talking about, right? Like Jeffrey Epstein's emails show us that they're moving money where there's crisis conflict areas and then they profit off of the conflict. That's a lot of what's going on. It's keeping people in fiat money, death, slavery, right. These are the big real issues. That's what's really going on. And I'm not saying that there's not interesting metaphysical crazy stuff going on at times or that there's nothing weird. But I noticed over time too with a lot of the weird like the, the wild woo woo stuff you can never really nail it down. You're always just Kind of like it's just one rabbit hole that leads to another infinite rabbit hole. And it's fun, it's entertaining at times just to look into that kind of stuff. But it's more like entertainment. And I like entertainment. I do a lot of entertaining things. I hope.

[Caller - Orthodox Christianity Inquirer]

Hope.

[Jay]

But I also have an aspect, aside of my personality, where I actually want to get into the real stuff. I want to know what's really going on. Especially, for example, if I'm going to put a lot of my income into something like Bitcoin. I want to know every angle of that as best I can. I want to know exactly what's going on with economics as best I can. I want to know the history of it. You know, if there's giant spy stories in the news like Russia Gate. Well, I want to know what's really going on here. What's the. How can I best understand what's happening? Is Russia really controlling our politics? Is that, you know, so in other words, conspiracy is a gateway really into geopolitics. And that's when you realize, okay, that's what's really going on. And I'm not saying that in geopolitics there isn't disinformation and you're not going to be struggling to figure everything out. Like, you're never going to have everything figured out, just like on the Big nine event. I don't know every single detail of what, what happened at the Big nine event, but I don't, I don't believe the official story. Like, there's enough questions that it's. So, you know, we want to approach these things as best we can with as best of an analysis as we can, and also to try to be as objective as we can be, even though nobody can be perfectly objective. We're not. We don't have an omniscient, God's eye perspective. But I think in doing this kind of analysis, we want to strive to be as objective as we can be. That's the goal. That's the goal now, anyway, but great call. Thank you for your comments. Appreciate that. Luchador. Luchador. Garth Brooks hid the bodies under the mud flood. Exactly. You guys have figured it out. John, if you want to come back, I saw you popping in and out of the chat. I was about to go to you. And then John always leaves right when I'm about to go to him. What's up, man? Luchador.

[Caller - Orthodox Christianity Inquirer]

Yo, what's up, Jay? Long time. First time I've listened to you since the blood sport days. Just want to say you know, as far as premeditated debates goes that you've had that weren't random call ins, I think JP took the cake for the most debater I've ever seen you debate.

[Sponsor/Announcer]

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[Caller - Orthodox Christianity Inquirer]

If you want to call him a debater. So much so that I think we need like a new like name for this class of person. Like, although he might not be like genetically.

[Jay]

Wait, hold on. Well, I only had a. I only had like a 20 minute, 30 minute conversation with him about intercession of saints, so I didn't actually. You talking about Alex? Soren debated jp? Are you talking about Alex?

[Caller - Orthodox Christianity Inquirer]

Oh, wait, no, sorry, man. I was talking about Mahler. I think it was Mahler, right?

[Jay]

I've never debated Mahler.

[Caller - Orthodox Christianity Inquirer]

Oh, who am I thinking of? This. The dude with the backwards hat. Who is his name?

[Jay]

What was it name?

[Caller - Orthodox Christianity Inquirer]

Anyways, I'm flaming out.

[Jay]

I'll leave. It's all right now I'm just trying to figure out who. I mean, I've had some legendary stinkers, dude. I mean, I don't even think T dun was in the. Maybe you're thinking of Misfit Patriot. A lot of people think Misfit Patriot was the worst alltime debate I ever did. There's also the Kurgan. He was a legendary fail. But also I don't even think. I mean, the Kurgan isn't even as bad as. As Misfit Patriot. Who you guys think was the worst? Let's let the audience decide. Yeah, I think he's thinking of Andrew talking to. To Mahler and jp. I want to say the worst. Well, no, it wasn't Tim Gordon. Not at all. I don't think Tim won any of those debates. But he wasn't the worst. I actually think. And a lot of people say T dump, but I actually think Misfit Patriot, he's. He was worse than T Dunk. No, JF wasn't the worst. No, dude, come on. Misfit Patriot is. I kind of think he was the worst. I. I've Never seen a worse debate performance than Misfit Patriot. Oh, Captain Crack Rock. He's not. He's terrible. But actually the Misfit Patriot even was worse than Captain Crack Rock. And whenever I was listing. Yeah, they're worse. He's worse than Pastor P. For sure. Brian Shapiro was not the worst debate. It was definitely entertaining. Powder Dusty. Oh, I forgot. Maybe he's talking about that dude had his hat on backward. Yeah, that Powder Dusty dude's still mad at me over that debate. And I wasn't even mean to him. I was just kept asking him basic questions. It's like, oh no, the, the I. The independent Fundamentals Baptist guy, he was bad, but he wasn't the worst that he was actually pretty quick on his feet. I mean he was. But he was actually pretty quick on his feet to like try to deflect, which is a trick, but at least he was. Yeah, I mean, I think we just have to 100% give it to. To Misfit pay. I mean, Misfit. Every time I think of anybody else like Bryson Gray. Misfit Patriot was worse than Bryson Grand.

[Caller - Post Postmodern Theology]

Yeah.

[Jay]

9 11. What's up, dog?

[Caller - Orthodox Christianity Inquirer]

Yo, what up, Jay?

[Jay]

What's on your mind?

[Caller - Orthodox Christianity Inquirer]

I just wanted to say after that last guy, it was listening to the old debates. It's kind of funny because the progression over time of you getting onto this zoom call all set up and then slowly you can see it in your face place as you realize the debate's not going to be of any substance. I just think it's hilarious.

[Jay]

So are you have one specifically in mind?

[Caller - Orthodox Christianity Inquirer]

No, there's just. I mean, there's a few there. There was a few. I mean, do you remember that one? There's that one Pagan.

[Jay]

Yes.

[Caller - Orthodox Christianity Inquirer]

That tried. That was the weightlifter. That was gay. Do you remember that?

[Jay]

There is a lot of. Of this. The Pagans were some of the worst first. Yeah, yeah.

[Caller - Orthodox Christianity Inquirer]

He was talking about how his God helps him lift weights.

[Jay]

Oh, you're talking about vegan gains. Yes.

[Caller - Orthodox Christianity Inquirer]

Oh my gosh. But it's just funny just to see the. The color and the enthusiasm.

[Jay]

The drain from my face.

[Caller - Post Postmodern Theology]

I don't know.

[Caller - Orthodox Christianity Inquirer]

Drain from your face? This is funny.

[Jay]

Yeah. Oh, by the way, thank you for that, people. I think Erudite was one of the worst. It's a tough call between Erudite and Misfit Patriot. I mean, in the vegan. The vegan gains debate. Well, there was two.

[Caller - Orthodox Christianity Inquirer]

Right.

[Jay]

Because the original Vegan Games debate was pretty bad. But I even have to. I have to think I Mean erudite even Erudite and vegan gains and ask yourself were better than misfit patriots. It I think we have to say mis picture was. Was the worst of all time. Even worse than than aite. And the misfit P was so bad, it only lasted like 20 minutes. It was like, dude, you're too dumb to even talk to, man. Just get out of here. What's up? Oh, hey, Jay.

[Caller - Orthodox Christianity Inquirer]

Thanks for letting me speak. I'm a huge fan. I'm wondering, what are your thoughts about the structures underneath the pyramids and how does that affect your world view and spiritual understanding?

[Jay]

I mean, it doesn't really affect it much at all. We did do a couple podcasts on what that might mean. I did one with Jake Rattlesnake. We talked about how that, you know, might rewrite history and it could prove nephilim or what, you know, if it's true. But I mean, it wouldn't really affect my spirituality. It would probably make me think, man, maybe the. Maybe there's more evidence to the, you know, nephilim story than I even thought. That's what that would be my first thought if it was confirmed through LiDAR or whatever.

[Caller - Mormon Spacewise]

So.

[Jay]

Patriot for accepting a short noticed debate. So here's the it's actually 30 minutes. So if you guys want a refresher on the worst debate I ever did, there is 30 minutes of insanity. I was even kind of awestruck at how dumb that dude was. Had no idea, like about anything. I'm like, why did you want to come to bait? You don't know anything, dude.

[Caller - Orthodox Christianity Questioner]

Like, what.

[Jay]

What was the thought process here? But yeah, I think, you know, the Mark Brahman one was he wasn't one of the worst, but people forget the Kurgan. The Kurgan was really bad, dude. It's not Misfit Patriot, but it's pretty low level, dude. And Dire Central did re upload the Kurgan debate. We know for a. You know what was funny is like, it was a very similar thing to Misfit Patriot. Like he didn't know who Denzinger. He thought Denzinger was like some guy. I'm like, it's a book, dude. It's the. It's these sources of Catholic dogma. And so the whole time he thought I was just referring to this guy called Denzinger. And he's like, I don't care what Denzinger says. That's just some dude. I'm like, you understand that Denzinger is the sources of Catholic dogma, that the Vatican Uses like when the Vatican, when they write their papers, that's what they cite. And, and this dude by the way, is, was, was wild. I mean, this guy channels aliens on Mars. I mean this dude is just like off the hook dude. So this, that made for a really next level entertaining SATA debate. And then of course, I'm sure you guys have all seen people don't even remember. And you'd have to actually go, I think, to Jim Bob's channel to find there wasn't just that one erudite debate, there was another eight hours with her the next day. Okay, do you understand that like I, I had a total of 13 hours of erudite because on the whatever podcast, there's the Friday or Saturday show, whatever it is, and there's like the, the eight hour weekend show. Okay. And it's hot as hell in there, by the way. It was, it was a wild experience. It was for the record books. But you actually have to go, I think, to Jim Bob's channel. Because Jim Bob job, if, I mean, I don't think anybody wants to watch the other 11 hours of arguing with this insane chick. But it does exist if you want, if you want to see not just the three hours, but the additional 11 more hours it is at Jim Bob's channel. Let's see if we can find it. But I mean, who really wants to watch that? I mean, do you really need to see 11 hours of this woman? I don't think so. I think we all got our fill. Oh, here it is right here. Here's Jim Bob streaming. He only streams eight. It ends up being eight hours, I guess, here on Jim Bob stream. So here it is. This is the other. This is essentially round two, right? Because the first debate that I had was just me and her the day before, and then the next day is an entirely other seven on Jimbo's channel. Eight hour debate. So if you want, if you want to torture yourself with another seven hours of me and erudite, you do have that option there. Jake Sloan. What's up, man? Agrippa's tripod. Exactly. I don't think Mark Brahman was worse than Mr. Patriot. What's up? Go ahead.

[Caller - Orthodox Christianity Inquirer]

Sorry, you're breaking up a little bit. What's up? Orthodox Protestant here. Just kidding. That was a. You're a day joke. Whatever.

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[Caller - Orthodox Christianity Inquirer]

I wanted to ask you about the Euthyphro dilemma a little bit if that's cool.

[Jay]

I mean we've addressed it a whole bunch, but yeah, go ahead.

[Caller - Orthodox Christianity Inquirer]

Sorry about what'd you say?

[Jay]

I said I've addressed a whole bunch, but go ahead.

[Caller - Orthodox Christianity Inquirer]

Oh really? Okay, so it's. It's one of those annoying arguments that I see on Tick tock with atheists and I've always found the Catholic answer to be good.

[Jay]

What's. How do they answer it? What's their answer saying?

[Caller - Orthodox Christianity Inquirer]

So the. The youth Fred alum is like his piety pious because.

[Caller - Mormon Spacewise]

Yeah.

[Jay]

Is it right because God says so or right or.

[Caller - Orthodox Christianity Inquirer]

Yeah, sorry, sorry, I didn't hear you.

[Caller - Orthodox Christianity Questioner]

What was that?

[Jay]

Yeah, Is it correct because God said so or does God say so because it's correct?

[Caller - Post Postmodern Theology]

Yeah.

[Caller - Orthodox Christianity Inquirer]

Right. And. And their answer is it's kind of pointing to divine simplicity, saying that.

[Jay]

Yeah, that's why I would not go with theirs. Exactly. I'm sorry, that is why I would not go with the Roman Catholic answer.

[Caller - Orthodox Christianity Inquirer]

Oh right. Yeah, yeah, of course. That's. That's kind of why I'm curious as to like what the orthodox answer would be because it kind of. The Catholic answer kind of just beats it pretty easily. But if you can't grant that, then how would you do it, you know?

[Jay]

Well, I'm confused because I would actually. To me it seems like if I admit the Roman Catholic view of divine simplicity, it would undercut. So how would it answer it? Simply no, Jim Bob is not taller than me. What do you guys talking about? We're sitting at an angle, you idiot.

[Caller - Orthodox Christianity Inquirer]

Like goodness is God's nature. God is good. Like capital is. Is.

[Jay]

Yeah, but that's one of the, that's one of the sides of the dilemma. So how does that answer it?

[Caller - Orthodox Christianity Inquirer]

So okay, let me. Let me think out loud here for a second. Youth Fr.

[Caller - Post Postmodern Theology]

Is.

[Caller - Orthodox Christianity Inquirer]

Is goodness good because God wills it or does God willing it make it good?

[Jay]

I think you just restated yourself.

[Caller - Orthodox Christianity Inquirer]

Catholic answer would say no, you just restated yourself and God as concepts are like in extra, they can't be divided.

[Jay]

You didn't say the dilemma correctly. You stated you just restated the position. So the dilemma is.

[Caller - Orthodox Christianity Inquirer]

Yeah.

[Jay]

Is. Are the gods Righteous because they possess righteousness and make it righteous or will it to be so, or is there a standard righteousness that the gods submit to that make it righteous? And so the whole argument is premised. Let's just cut to the chase here. The whole argument is premised on Greek metaphysics. So low tier atheists don't know this, they don't realize it. But the argument assumes that goodness is in some way synonymous with or you isomorphically identical to the monad or to the one. And of course for the Orthodox there are many goods. Okay, so we're not going to admit that there's just one type of goodness, which is like some eternal divine goodness. There's many goods, God is good, there's also created goods. So the argument hinges on there only being one kind of sort of non temporal good. That's one problem. The argument also assumes, or the question also assumes that, that the type of deity in question can't have different aspects to him that are unique and are not isomorphically identical to his essence. So the essence energy distinction plays into this because orthodox theology distinguishes itself from Greek Hellenic metaphysics by not having a absolutely simple monad. So it's actually not a dilemma unless you have the absolute simplicity doctrine of the Greeks, which is ironically the same position as Roman Catholics on the Trinity. So, Noah, what's up?

[Caller - Orthodox Christianity Questioner]

Hello.

[Jay]

Hey, can you hear me? Yeah.

[Caller - Orthodox Christianity Inquirer]

So I've been watching you for about two or three years now and you've been very inspirational for me, so I'd just like to thank you. And my, my question isn't really a debate question, it's more as I've seen your videos and live streams throughout the years, I've seen you debate multiple people with various backgrounds, some formal, some informal debates, and you seem to have a very strong understanding of a wide variety of topics from geopolitical stuff, philosophy, religion, the occult, all this random topics. And you have a, a knowledge that is deep enough to have debates with people who strongly believe in these. So my question is how can somebody living in the modern age with, you know, social media brain rot learn all of these subjects to a very high level like you have?

[Jay]

I think that it would take a lot of discipline. So it can be done if you have that desire, if that's what you're interested in, especially if you're a younger person. So one thing I did when I was in my 20s was, and this may or may not be available to you, but I ended up in a situation providentially where I had a job where I could read for about 10 years straight. So for me, I just put that kind of first. I just worked a paint store job. I was a manager of a Pittsburgh paint store. And I could just sit and read for most of the day because we had periods where in the morning, you know, the contractors and painters would come in and get their paint and then there would be a very long lull until right before closing time, before 5. So I had that situation for about 10 years. It was a very flexible situation too where I could do college. So I would do classes part time, drive and do those in the evening or whatnot, and then work during the day again that for maybe 12 years. I don't know for many years. And not everybody might have that scenario. So. But that's one of the ways I was able to read so much of the Church Fathers. I didn't read all 38 volumes, but I read thousands and thousands of pages of Church Fathers over those years. Read a lot of the Summa as well through those years. A lot of. I was still a Protestant for much of that time. Not all of it, but for some of it. So I read a lot of Protestant books throughout that period. It's when I read all the 1559 institutes of Calvin, etc, so that sort of voracious reading is something that you would have to cultivate. I read a lot of geopolitical books too, because I was also doing college stuff, right? So I'm writing papers. And then I did grad school. I had to write a lot of papers. So I think that was very useful for what I ended up doing, which I didn't expect I'd be doing this, but I thought I would be teaching, right? I wanted to be a professor. I was going to go get, you know, PhD and teach philosophy or whatever. But I would say, you know, if you do want to do this kind of stuff, you have to, you have to realize that it's, it's useful if you're gonna do it like in a job way way, it's not that useful. Like if you're just going to be working, you know, and I'm not dissing wage slave jobs. I had to do that for many years. But I mean, if you're not going to try to go into using this knowledge for, I mean, here's one example. You could use this knowledge for investing, you know, if you wanted to try to save up and, you know, learn how to invest and where to put money and that kind of stuff. This type of knowledge can be useful for that. But that's actually been one of the challenges that I've had over the years is when I convey this information to people. Most people really don't think that this is that useful for them. And I understand that, you know, the theology and orthodox stuff is probably way more practical for people's lives. The geopolitical stuff doesn't perhaps seem that useful to most people. But it really just depends on you and what you want to do. And so I would say try to cultivate a pretty voracious reading schedule. Don't get bogged down in one subject. It's going to be difficult to finish every book. And don't get too discouraged. You're probably going to have a lot of books that you only read half of or a third of or three fourths of. That's okay. There have been many books over the years that I just didn't end up finishing. They just weren't that. That engaging or interesting. But also this type of reading is, is something that you have to work up to. It took me several years before and it's kind of, in a way, an aesthetic endeavor. It took me many years where I could get to where I could read all day long. Like, I couldn't do that right away. I started when I was in grade school being able to read a lot throughout the day. And there was times when I was in, you know, fifth or sixth grade where I could read all day long. But if you're a young guy, you have a lot of energy, you probably don't want to do that. But by the time I was in my 20s, I got pretty good at being able to read all day long in some situation. Sometimes I've even read entire books in a day. I mean, really long books too. Like, I remember reading Crime and Punishment. I think I read that in three days, just sitting in one chair. I read it straight in three days. But that's not something everybody can do. But I would say that if you've got the sort of tick tock, brain rot, that kind of stuff. I mean, unless you're making money or content on TikTok, like, there's no reason to be on there. Just get off. So think about your time, how valuable your time is. Unless you're actually making content, then there's no need really to be on there. It's not really giving you any value. And the algorithm is designed, as I'm sure you know, to be addictive and like, you know, constant.

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[Jay]

So you're actually destroying your attention span by it. Yeah, I mean beyond that there's not a whole lot. I would also say, and I like gaming, but I would say also try to limit your time playing video games because video games are fun but, but it's also like super high paced and like your attention span is like all over the place, right? So you're kind of training yourself to be like constantly sort of, you know, agitated. And to read you have to have a very high level of focus. I would also say too, nad actually works. If you get nad, it will help you focus. I've been able to read pretty intensely by taking one nad every day. Don't take two because I took two one time. I was basically just staring for like hours. Do not take two nad. But if you do get nad, you can take one of them. That will help you focus for sure. Yeah. So those are some good techniques, I would say, if you want to get. And if you, you know, if you're very addicted to like watching things or something like that or like, like constant stimulation, I would say start watching good documentaries. That's a good way to transition from, you know, just garbage video content to at least content that's giving you some, some kind of information, you know, some educational material. I wish they still had that Byzantine Empire documentary. That's a good one. They pulled that one down though, many years ago because it was, it was too based. But yeah, try to find good, not shitlib documentaries but like, you know, good, good documentaries on history. And like lately one thing I've been doing is replacing a lot of the time that I would have used to, I don't know, watch retarded on YouTube. I'm like, okay, why am I doing that? I need to optimize the time that I'm watching some retards video on YouTube by I'm gonna watch a documentary on the Ottomans, right? So I made a list of all the topics that I don't know a whole lot about, like Chinese intelligence, the history of the Ottomans, history of the Palestinian liberation, or like I just watched A PLO documentary the other day. Because I don't know a whole lot about the plo. So I would say, like, start listing things that you don't know a lot about and start watching documentaries as a good way to sort of take up that time that you are watching on. Because we've all done it. We've all scrolled through, you know, a bunch of dumb on re. On Instagram or even on X. And you're like, I just spent an hour watching, like, ducks farting. Like, what am I doing? This is a waste of time. Floor Florida man. What's up? No, I didn't actually watch an hour of ducks farting, but you know what I'm saying? Like, if you click on one, like on Instagram, there's Schizogram. You click on one, then you get, like, the whole feed is just schizo stuff. Then you get addicted to watching Schizos, just doing crazy, which is entertaining, I have to admit. But Florida man. And then post Postmodern. What's up, Florida man?

[Caller - Orthodox Christianity Questioner]

How you doing, Jay?

[Jay]

Good. Appreciate all your work. Keep it up. Because you're an avid reader, I was

[Caller - Orthodox Christianity Inquirer]

just curious if you had ever read

[Caller - Post Postmodern Theology]

either

[Jay]

the Turner Diaries or the War of the Plea by Robert Tabor, and the Turner Diaries is by Andrew McDonald. No, I'm not familiar with either of those. I mean, I've heard of the Turner Diaries in that. Like a classic kind of. It's in this. The Fed spear sphere. Like, they're. They're always. So it supposedly inspired the Oklahoma City bombing, and it was a banned book in a whole bunch of countries across the world. But it's incredibly telling how much of what we're living through right now in the west is depicted in the book. Well, they say the same thing.

[Caller - Orthodox Christianity Inquirer]

Short read.

[Jay]

It's real fun, too. I recommend it. They say the same thing about the campus saints, too, which was banned, and they had to bring that one back, too. So what's up, post postmodern?

[Caller - Post Postmodern Theology]

Hey, Jay, how you doing?

[Jay]

Good. What's up, dude?

[Caller - Post Postmodern Theology]

So first off, went to my first Divine liturgy the other day.

[Jay]

Oh, really good experience. Wow, guys, for those that don't know,

[Caller - Post Postmodern Theology]

since I was a kid, you know, so.

[Jay]

Oh, okay. I forgot your background. But this is for guys that don't remember. This is post postmodern. We did a very interesting conversation a while back on his channel on eschatology, so you guys can check that out on his channel. Your channel is called Post Post Modern Theology.

[Caller - Orthodox Christianity Inquirer]

Right, right.

[Caller - Post Postmodern Theology]

Yeah, yeah. And we did one on Solar Scripture, actually That's what actually sort of planted the seeds for me that something was, something was wrong. But look, I, I've been doing some posts on Solar Scriptura lately and I recognize that the Acts 15 Council gave an infallible ruling.

[Caller - Orthodox Christianity Inquirer]

Right.

[Caller - Post Postmodern Theology]

Obviously at the time when Acts wasn't written. And it seems to have this ability to, to loosen, bind in that capacity with the keys that have been given to them. Right?

[Jay]

I would say so.

[Caller - Post Postmodern Theology]

Pointing that out. Pardon?

[Jay]

I would say so, yes.

[Caller - Geopolitics Enthusiast]

Yeah.

[Caller - Post Postmodern Theology]

And so I had this guy, this Protestant fella, I think he's a non denominational guy called Reed Uberman, wanting to do a discussion or a debate. All right. Solar Scriptura or my reservations of such. And so I, I, one thing I wanted to ask you is essentially with this idea of a, what they that RC sprout, you know, a fallible distance of infallible books. Right. Ultimately that seems to not be able to have any certainty on what the actual tenant is with that like that foundation. And normally when you obviously bring that up, they say that I don't need to be infallible to recognize something that is infallible. Like a fallible object could recognize something that is infallible. What do you think, you know, is the best way to present that epistemological dilemma?

[Jay]

Well, yeah, I would just take it out of the discussion of quote, infallibility and let's just put it in the domain of normativity. So is there no means by which we can be normatively, ethically bound to a canon of scripture? There's, is there any body of people that could do that? Because as soon as the Protestant has to admit that, it seems like there would be, that they've undercut the crucial Reformation principles of no one can bind my conscience. So in other words, I don't even think we have to keep. We could keep, but let's just put it in the ethics domain. Let's just forget the epistemology and let's just say, okay, so nobody's bound. And if nobody's bound by it, then there's nothing really preventing you from your own personal private canon of Scripture. Me, from my personal private canon of Scripture? Right, yeah, yeah.

[Caller - Post Postmodern Theology]

I mean there's certain things that they do recognize, that is with certainty. Even Christ, Deity, they seem to be quite certain about that. There seems to be.

[Jay]

Well, yeah, you could, you could go that route. You could phrase it that way. You could say, well, am I infallibly bound to believe in the Trinity? If you do want to use that terminology. And they'll be like, well, okay, yeah, that's taught in Scripture. And it's like, yeah, but if you're going to say it's taught in Scripture, that presupposes some limited set of books that tell us where the Trinity. Right. So in other words, you're back, I think, to square one to say if you're going to say that the Trinity is a necessary dogma, then it's going to require some because that's resting on the canon of Scripture. Okay, but if the Canada Scripture can be your canon versus my canon versus Bob's canon, then how are we going to say that the doctrine of Trinity is necessary? Because maybe, maybe Marcians, maybe. Yeah, maybe Marcion's canon was correct. And Marcion's canon was so truncated. He was the first person to have a canon. It's so truncated that maybe we wouldn't have the, the, the Trinity doctrine from his canon.

[Caller - Post Postmodern Theology]

Well, see, that's interesting point because I was reading recently Bruce Metzger's formation of New Testament canon and oh, it's, it's quite clear, it's quite clear from, only from a, obviously a textual critical perspective that there was no universal New Testament canon in the first sort of few centuries.

[Jay]

Right.

[Caller - Post Postmodern Theology]

And the Gnostics seem to be pumping out gospels left, right and center.

[Jay]

Yeah, absolutely.

[Caller - Post Postmodern Theology]

And it was only the, only, only the traditions that carried through that actually could qualify what was going back to the apostles of the first century. It didn't. No one, obviously no one could read it. Not everyone was literate. But it, it does, it seems ahistorical. The idea that Scripture provided the foundation for, by, by how they knew what the canon was exactly historically makes sense.

[Jay]

Absolutely. And in fact, one of the best insights that we could look to from the second century on this is, let me find this quote here. I believe it's book three. Yeah. So if we go to. Against heresies in book three of Saint Anas, you know, he talks about what the gospel is and you know, how do we know the gospel? And he says, well, you're gonna, you're gonna go to the churches, you're gonna learn the gospel in the churches. But then he says, well, where do we do that? How do we know that? Because every group, including all the heretics and the Gnostics, they're going to use the scriptures and they're going to have perhaps their competing list of scriptures. As you're pointing out, there's already a proliferation of pseudepographa and you know, just straight up faith, you know, Gnostic gospels. So Irenaeus says, look, it's very simple how we go about this. When they are refuted from the scriptures, the heretics will actually turn around and

[Sponsor/Announcer]

say, well, these the Farm City Pro Rodeo has raised the bar again. $60,000 in added money per event, solidifying Hermiston's place as a top 15 paying rodeo in the PRCA. New this year, Saturday night's performance will be a true championship round, guaranteeing you get to see the best of the best in one place on one night. Tickets are on sale now and they will go fast. Visit farmcityprodeo.com for tickets and more information. Experience the action, Feel the history of the Farm city Pro Rodeo August 12th through the 15th.