Pt 2 Backrooms & Obsession DECODED, Flood Myths, Atlantis & Megaliths, Bing Bang & Cold War Hollywood

Summary

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Jay’sAnalysis with Jay Dyer

Episode: Pt 2 Backrooms & Obsession DECODED, Flood Myths, Atlantis & Megaliths, Big Bang & Cold War Hollywood
Date: June 2, 2026

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Episode Overview

In this episode, Jay Dyer dives deep into the metaphysics and symbolism of the Backrooms mythos, linking it to Neoplatonic philosophy and Kabbalah, discusses trauma and redemption in contemporary horror, explores global flood myths and their implications for human history, speculates about Atlantis, megaliths, and lost civilizations, critiques scientific materialism with a philosophical and comedic edge, and unpacks how media, Hollywood, and propaganda influence public perceptions—from planetary science to immigration narratives.

Jay is joined periodically by guests John and Benjamin, as well as various callers, making for a freewheeling, philosophically dense, and humorous exploration of esoteric themes, pop culture, and the intersection of religion, myth, and science.

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1. The Backrooms: Metaphysics & Trauma (00:00–15:29)

Key Points & Insights:

• Backrooms as Metaphysical Space:
  Jay compares the Backrooms’ endless, liminal architecture to Neoplatonism’s concept of pure potentiality – a realm of limitless, formless being, echoed in Kabbalah as "the 99," a hidden spiritual dimension (00:00).

  • “It's the realm of pure potentia, devoid of limitations... that's exactly what the backrooms are.” – Jay Dyer (00:00)

• Kabbalistic Symbolism:
  He links the transition from potentiality to physicality (via the Sephirot/Tree of Life) with the narrative of the Backrooms, introducing the idea of the "Tree of Death"—a map of demonic realities, analogous to the Backrooms’ layers of trauma and evil (00:05).

• Demonic Entities as Husks:
  The concept of “Kleifat” or “husks” in Kabbalah connects to themes of trauma and disconnection from the divine.

• Character Comparison – Obsession & Escape:

  • Dr. Klein and Clark from the film "Obsession":
    • Dr. Klein overcomes her trauma, deploys her childhood pain (the handprint in concrete) as a weapon against the demon (00:00–09:00).
    • Clark, by contrast, is consumed and refuses salvation; trauma becomes imprisonment.

• Ambiguity of Escape and Identity:
  Jay discusses the ambiguous ending—are we seeing Klein’s freedom or a trapped fragment? He analogizes this to Christian notions of spiritual exile and redemption—specifically the "harrowing of Hades."

Notable Quotes:

• “Her trauma becomes a means of overcoming. Clark's trauma becomes a means of imprisonment, and he doesn't want to be saved.” – Jay Dyer (07:30)
• “It's kind of like an AI or a bot... all of those are Kabbalistic ideas.” (03:30)

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2. Gnostic Chains and Classical Archetypes (10:39–15:29)

• Great Chain of Being:
  Jay explains the “chain of being” through a medieval lens, mapping reality from hell and non-being up to God.
  • He critiques its Gnostic and Platonic assumptions, emphasizing the Orthodox Christian divergence from such hierarchies (11:00–13:30).

Notable Quote:

• “To be closer to God is to be more like mind to the Greeks. To be closer to non-being is to be like rocks or trees.” (12:40)

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3. Open Q&A: Catholic-Orthodox Theology & Language (16:19–24:24)

Key Points:

• In Persona Christi & Sacramental Efficacy:
  Jay distinguishes between Catholic and Orthodox views on priestly action—Orthodoxy rejects the strictly mechanical (ex opere operato) approach of Catholicism (17:00–18:50).

• Learning Theological Terms:
  Recommends Christianity and Classical Culture by Yaroslav Pelican for mastering theological distinctions (23:11).

Notable Quote:

• “We would say that if you lose the faith, you don’t retain the power to forever confect and blaspheme the Eucharist. That’s a canonical issue...” (17:14)

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4. AI, Dystopia, and Propaganda (26:44–30:32)

• AI, Surveillance, & Societal Control:
  Jay fields questions about the potential for AI-driven technocracy and the role of pop culture in prepping societal expectations for dystopia.

  • “We do know that they... always continue to push the… technocratic dystopia. Like, that's going to be pushed forward by the big Silicon Valley oligarchs no matter what.” (28:00)

• Awakening to Technological Control:
  Doesn't predict a clear outcome but believes increased pressure leads to greater public awareness and pushback.

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5. Global Flood Myths, Science, and the Nature of Explanation (33:12–62:00)

Key Points:

• Universality of Flood Myths:
  Discussion moves to the persistence of flood stories across cultures, from Sumerian to Mesoamerican to Indian—paralleling the biblical flood and questioning the rationale for such shared archetypes (37:53–41:00).

  • Notable Quote:
    “All the shamans across the world describe the same process of the shamanic trip... why would disparate tribes have the same experience?” (38:05)

• Flood Geology and Hydroplate Theory:
  Benjamin introduces the hydroplate theory—a model positing massive subterranean water release as the source of the global flood, challenging the conventional scientific timeline (33:28, 35:01).

• Skepticism Toward Evolutionary & Cosmological Narratives:
  Jay humorously critiques the "belly button lint" theory of planetary formation, exposing the speculative underpinnings and lack of empirical verifiability in mainstream science explanations (50:02–58:58).

  • Memorable Segment: Jay’s mockery of naturalistic explanations for fish distribution in disconnected lakes (44:00–46:00).

• Philosophy of Science—Underdetermination of Data:
  Jay underlines the philosophical limits of scientific modeling:

  • “You can have differing models that have the exact same explanatory power... giving more facts can never necessarily tell you which model to adopt...” (76:23–79:13).

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6. Atlantis, Megaliths & Lost Civilizations (81:21–89:54)

Highlights:

• Atlantis and Underwater Megaliths:

  • Jay and Benjamin discuss megalithic structures under the sea off Cuba and Japan, which support alternative chronologies for human civilization and challenge uniformitarian timelines (83:00–84:00).
  • Jay remains open but skeptical, viewing much of this as highly speculative though “intriguing.”

• Gobekli Tepe & Ancient Engineering:
  Discussion of Gobekli Tepe as possible evidence of post-flood civilization; Jay notes mainstream “aliens/ancestor worship” narratives but maintains a human explanation is more plausible (95:42–97:04).

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7. Critique of Scientism & Evolutionary Ideology (65:25–73:06)

• Faith in Evolution as Unquestioned Paradigm:
  Jay and John discuss how evolutionary theory is embedded in modern culture and product marketing, making it “unfalsifiable.”
  • “Everything is an argument for evolution... It’s the air we breathe, the water we swim in.” (69:03)
• Dawkins, Junk DNA, and Circular Logic:
  Illustrates the shifting goalposts in scientific evidence for and against evolution and the use of contradictions as “proofs” (70:08).

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8. Hollywood, Propaganda, and Cold War Narratives (117:36–120:02)

• Immigration and ‘Adopt a Refugee’ Narratives:
  Jay and John note how Cold War propaganda films promoted specific immigrant groups for political reasons (e.g., Little Saigon, Little Nikita, Red Dawn).

• The Power of Independent Film:
  Discussion on the rise of indie films like "Obsession" and "Backrooms," outperforming Hollywood blockbusters and signaling cultural shifts (131:16).

• Media Gatekeeping:
  Jay warns against naiveté regarding “conservative” media and fake oppositions, highlighting the “conspiracy reality” behind both left and right establishment narratives (130:43–131:16).

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9. Call-Ins: Further Esoterica, Philosophy, and Society

• Callers inquire about:
  • Comparative theology (e.g., baptismal authenticity).
  • Tips for theological literacy.
  • Grounding of societal values (Maslow’s Hierarchy).
  • Bitcoin and its theoretical compatibility with Orthodoxy (99:24–101:13).
  • The role of sports and global tournaments in world government efforts (125:31–126:32).
  • Religion, myth, and societal structures across civilizations.

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Memorable Quotes & Moments

• On the Limits of Scientific Storytelling:
  “The story of the Greek myths of the Titans striking mud with lightning and accidentally creating man makes more sense than belly button lint just spinning…” (58:58).

• On the Unfalsifiability of Evolution:
  “Everything is an argument for evolution, which means that evolution is really unfalsifiable.” (69:03)

• On Propaganda Movies:
  “They’re all aimed at the youngsters…get this embedded into the minds of the young people—be in line with the people from the anti-Communist factions.” (120:46)

• Call-in wit:
  “You're the king of wigs Antium.” (90:11)

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Notable Timestamps

• [00:00–09:32] – Metaphysics of the Backrooms, Kabbalah, and trauma symbolism.
• [10:39–13:30] – Medieval chain of being, philosophical critique.
• [16:19–24:24] – Catholic/Orthodox theology, theological literacy resources.
• [26:44–30:32] – AI, Surveillance, and pop culture dystopias.
• [33:12–41:00] – Flood myths across cultures, shamanic archetypes.
• [50:02–58:58] – Jay’s comedic critique of scientific theories.
• [69:03–73:06] – Circular logic and evolution; propaganda in science.
• [83:00–89:54] – Atlantis, underwater megaliths, speculative archaeology.
• [95:42–99:15] – Gobekli Tepe, ancient engineering, narrative skepticism.
• [117:36–120:02] – Cold War Hollywood, immigration, propaganda films.
• [130:43–131:16] – Indie film success and media manipulation.

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Conclusion

Jay Dyer’s analysis blends philosophical rigor, dry humor, skepticism, and deep dives into esoteric and pop cultural motifs. The episode traverses ancient mythology, metaphysics, film, societal systems, and the limits of institutional narratives—tying them all together through open debate, call-in participation, and relentless questioning. Whether critiquing the assumptions of scientific materialism, decoding trauma symbolism in horror, or poking holes in Hollywood propaganda, Jay keeps the conversation lively, irreverent, and thought-provoking.

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Transcript

[Jay Dyer]

Neoplatonists, this represents God in his absolute boundless infinity. It's also the realm of pure potentia or potentiality, devoid of limitations, definitions, distinctions or attributes. That's exactly what the backrooms are. It's exactly the way that Clark describes the backrooms and how he's figured out what it is. And that's why, because there are no limitations, definitions or distinctions, he's able to sort of define his own reality without responsibility there. That's why he likes it there. In modern Kabbalah, this domain is called the 99 because it's the hidden spiritual dimension of all ultimate solutions, clarity and fulfillment. That's not what the backrooms are, but that's what some of these Kabbalist say it is. How does this relate to the Sephirot and the Tree of Life? Well, the transl. The transition from unmanifested potentiality to physical reality occurs through the emanations or the Sephirot that channel the divine energy. This is the Kabbalistic view. Not saying this is true. I'm saying that this is the idea, I think that's underlying what's going on in the back rooms. It's the same idea of what in True Detective Russ Cole, the Matthew McConaughey character, calls the psychosphere. So you have this realm of potentiality and becoming. And the reason that it seeps into this world is that things are manifested from that realm into this realm. But also that realm is contacted not so much to the physical, but through our mental or our soul world. Through the soul. Another way to prove my position here is to look at the husk people, which are the Kleafat. And this also relates to the idea of the Golem. Right. So in, in Kabbalah, Kliphat or the Kle or the Kipat are the realm of impure spiritual forces and evil. This translates to shells or husks of beings. They act as metaphysical blockages that conceal or block the divine light. And so the Kabbalistic idea of the demonic is this idea of these entities or beings that are husks, Right? They're sort of beings that are non being. If you played Final Fantasy or Kingdom Hearts, you'll be familiar with the. I think I know Kingdom Hearts has the cleavage, but I. I can't remember. I know Final Fantasy has the suffer off, but I can't remember if it has a cleat or not. But just as there is a Tree of Life, there is also a, in this system, a Tree of Death, which has its own mapped universe of demonic emanations. Worlds and dimensions. And I think that makes perfect sense with the backrooms. There are, according to this structure, supposedly three completely impure clefat worlds. These are utterly detached from the divine. They represent total malevolence, destruction, and spiritual death. They're demonic. And then there are other husks or clefat that are mediums or entities that can possess other entities. So you'll. You see how also this would relate to the golem, right? Because the golem is a creation. Like the demons are these sort of husks. The, the. I just want, like, what I'm trying to say. The. The golem is a magician creating a husk being that you can control and come to life, but he's not really alive, right? So it's kind of like an AI or a bot, right? So again, all of those are kabbalistic ideas. And a lot of Kabbalah is just borrowed from ancient Greek philosophy, metaphysics and mysticism as well. And so when you get to the back rooms, that's exactly what you would expect. You, you will see your trauma and your demonic, whatever it is, as the things that affected you, because this is a realm of pure, of potentiality that you as the observer, affect and cause. So there's a reciprocal relationship there. Anyway, so Dr. Klein successfully traverses the labyrinth of the back rooms, at least as far as we can tell. The. The predominant interpretation of the ending of the film. Clark does not. Clark decides to remain and is consumed by the back. The back rooms and by the demon. She fights the demon. And in fact, she has, of course, that little piece of concrete that she pressed her hand in when she was a child, right? So remember, you think about concrete too. Concrete is this sort of malleable rock or pseudo rock that can be formed into anything, right? It's kind of a formless thing that you make into a form. And so she stamped her hand when she was a child into the concrete when they were building the new modernist architecture structure, when they destroyed her apartment that she lived out with her insane mom. But it was also her home, but it was also a prison. And so she had to overcome the trauma and the trap that she had as a child. It was symbolized by the rock that she had. That's the thing that she beats the demon off with at the end. So she fights back. Her trauma becomes a means of overcoming. Clark's trauma becomes a means of imprisonment, and he doesn't want to be saved. There is, of course, a little bit of a. Of ambiguity because we don't actually know for sure that Dr. Klein did get out. Because when one of her Personas or personalities escapes, she has the conversation with the scientists, and he kind of seems. He doesn't seem like he really cares, right? Because kind of like Clark, he's more interested in the back rooms and obsessed with them than actually getting out of there or, you know, living a life. He's sort of a spurg. And she has this conversation with him, and we think, okay, maybe she's out. We don't know what her fate's going to be. She's gonna have to live in some government, you know, facility because she's seen too much and she knows. Will she have to work for the corporation now? I mean, we don't know exactly what's going on. But the final scene, of course, is a version of her, a copy of her that is all deformed, still stuck in the back rooms. And it could entirely be the case that the. The sequence of her escaping and talking to the scientist is just the thoughts of Dr. Klein trapped in the back rooms. Or the faint memories of the deformed Dr. Klein that. That is still there in the back rooms. Because one of the things that we know about the back rooms is that it. It will create these sort of copies and memories of you that it sort of stakes its claim upon you for. Right? So if you're there, you've got unresolved sins or trauma. The. The backrooms own you because you're part of its domain, right? And this is in many ways kind of akin to the orthodox idea of the harrowing of Hades, right? I'm not saying that it's. That the backrooms are supposed to be Hades. I'm just saying it's kind of like that idea, right? The. The idea that this domain, this kingdom, this dimension lays claim to you. If you are not a son of God, if you're not under the blood of the lamb, et cetera, in the Christian sense, that dimension lays claim to you. But Christ going into that dimension and then harrowing it and destroying it and then coming back to life. We see a similar potential katabasis because Dr. Klein went very deep into the back rooms, almost to the abyss. She does appear to. To get out. Unless you have the darker reading that the final sequence was the real her still trapped in the back rooms as a deformity. I think it's supposed to be. I mean, it wouldn't make. To me. It wouldn't make sense to have two tragic characters, right? So I think the better interpretation is that Clark is the tragic character, Dr. Klein is the victorious character, right? She did complete her catabasis and came back. Clark did not. And so what we're seeing at the end is just another example of the copy of Dr. Klein that the back room produced, not the actual Dr. Klein, because she did overcome. And the whole point of her defeating the demon with her, her past symbol of. Of trauma only makes sense if she actually did conquer. So I think that that makes more sense than the darker interpretation, that nobody escapes the back rooms, right?

[Benjamin]

You.

[Jay Dyer]

We could say that. However, I don't think it makes sense to say nobody escapes the backrooms. If the scientist, for example, I mean, he says, well, I've been in the backrooms my whole life for at least for many years, exploring and trying to make sense of it. So we're given the immediate surface level impression that the scientist is able to go in and out without being stuck there. But maybe not. Maybe the scientist himself thinks that he's free from the back rooms but is still forever imprisoned in them. So there it could go very dark again, it's left up to interpretation. That's my overall take on it. I thought it was really good. I'll look really quick to see if I didn't, if I missed anything. I think I got everything I wanted to talk about. Some of it reminded me of. Remember in season three, Twin Peaks with Dougie and the Tulpa? There's some of that kind of going on. I thought that was. That was there. We talked about Cabala. We talked about Clark as an architect. One thing I didn't mention was

[John]

when

[Jay Dyer]

you see the abyss sequence, right, you see that when she drops a chair into the abyss, it kind of fades away into non being. And that, again, it kind of speaks to the sort of chain of being idea of the Middle Ages, which was also kind of appropriated by the Kabbalah as well, because a lot of that's just Neoplatonism. But. I think it's fascinating to note that a lot of this isn't new, right? This is like Virgil's aid. This is, you know, Odysseus. This is the classic Cabas story of the descent and the ascent, right? So here is the. If you've never seen this, this is the medieval. This is the great chain of being, right? So down at the bottom of the chain of being, and this is very Hellenic, you'll see the underworld, Hades, hell. You then see the. I'm not exactly sure what that next level is. That could just be the elements. Think it's supposed to be the elements. Because in the chain of being idea, the further that you go down towards non being, the less form there is. It becomes formless and becomes a formless void, right? And so as you move up from the chain of being in the ancient and medieval Hellenic idea, you begin to have the, the basic elements of what makes up the world and what makes up form. So you would get, you know, water, fire, earth, air, the elements, which is what this next layer is, and light. And then you would get rocks and vegetation, right? That's the next level of being. Then in the next level being you would get animals, right? Because as you move up, you're getting more and more mental or rational or noetic or more like the air, right? Why they would just put sea creatures above animals, I don't know. But they're more like flying creatures, right? So birds of the air are, have. They're higher on the chain of being than rocks for whatever reason. And then you get humans, right? Humans are above the animals and then above the humans you have the angels, right? And as you get up into the chain of being, there's you're moving up into true being, which is more mental being, right? So you can see this is very Greek because to be closer to God is to be more like mind to the Greeks. And to be closer down to non being is to be like rocks or like trees, right? And then above the angels, of course, is God himself at the top of the chain of being. Now I do think that there are elements that, you know, orthodox theologians over history have appropriated like the Porphyrion tree, to kind of categorize reality. But we, as orthodox Christians, we do not accept the Hellenic chain of being. You can already see why it's pretty obviously fraught with gnostic and Platonic ideas. But it was very popular in the medieval, medieval era to think of the world in this way, right? And you can see other people have sort of listed it here, God, angels. Oh, and I forgot the kings and queens, right? Kings and queens are underneath angels. Then you have people, plants and then rocks and then hell and non being at the bottom. If you want a good book on this, I have this book. I read a good bit of it. It's called the Great Chain of Being by Arthur Lovejoy. It's just a philosophical, historical, ideological treatment of this idea of the chain of being. Also, guys, remember we have a show sponsor was a chalk.com. you can head over to chalk.com choq.com and use promo code J60Life. That's J Y60L I F E to get 60 off all those great products and you can unsubscribe at any time. Okay, I think I finished my. My back rooms and my obsession spiel. Hope you guys enjoyed that. Hopefully it wasn't too long winded. I know I've been yapping for a good while. We do have a couple people on the line here. Serpent, what's up? What's on your mind? And we don't have to talk about obsession or back rooms. You guys can bring out whatever topics you want, but they are still on the table. What's on your mind?

[John]

Your idea of what is it? Ascension into either being Greek, like for God or become totally human.

[Benjamin]

What do you mean by that?

[John]

Like when you expound upon them a

[Jay Dyer]

little bit more, you. You cut out for half of that. So what was the question again?

[John]

Talking about how like the Greeks were like the epitome.

[Benjamin]

Like

[Jay Dyer]

your phone keeps cutting out, man. I'm sorry, I can't. I can't hear what you're asking. Try to call back in and maybe you just keep cutting out. So I can't hear the question. I apologize. Maybe if you come out, come back in through the sun. What's up? It sound like an interesting question. I want to hear what the question was, but your. Your phone keeps cutting up.

[Caller D]

Hey Jay, how are you doing?

[John]

Good.

[Jay Dyer]

What's up?

[Caller D]

So, not much. I just had a couple questions and then a statement, but. So I'm a convert from Catholicism, so there's just a couple questions about Catholic theology. Those that I. I haven't found reading on and I was wondering if you could just point me in some directions because I've tried to do research. We've come up a little empty handed.

[Jay Dyer]

Okay, what

[Caller D]

Primarily the theology of acting in the person of Christ and Persona Christie, for a priest when administering the sacraments.

[Jay Dyer]

Okay, what's the question?

[Caller D]

Okay, so like is the idea of, you know, Christ acting through ministers, as in there, in. In his person? Like, is that, is there really any difference between the theology and Catholicism and

[Jay Dyer]

Orthodoxy at a basic level? No. The main difference would be that Roman Catholicism, especially towards the early Middle Ages, began to stress exoper operato to where it becomes almost mechanical. So Roman Catholics would, for example, say that a Roman Catholic priest could be ordained and then that same day become a Satanist. But he always, forever, even as a Satanist for the rest of his life has the ability to confect the Eucharist and. And thus to defile it. Because for them that can never be lost in the orthodox view. We're not donatists, but we also don't have this extreme ex operato view because we would say that if you lose the faith, you don't retain the power to forever confect and blaspheme the Eucharist. Right. So in other words, there's no mechanical, like exoper apparato. Like you also have to have the faith. So it's not just the laying on of hands that gives you this power. If you lose the faith, you also lose the power. But that's a canonical. In other words, that would be if you're, if you're, when you're excommunicated. Right. So in other words, somebody might say, well, wait a minute, you're a donatist. Because if a bishop, you know, doubted everything at the time of, as, you know, conferring the Eucharist, that would mean that it's all invalid. No, no, we're saying that when the church publicly excommunicates a person, that means that they've lost that power. Right. We're not saying that if you're in the bounds of canonical church that you lose the power by having being what's called a secret heretic. We don't. That would be donatism.

[John]

Okay.

[Caller D]

The, the Catholic faith is far more like, they treat it far more like a natural science where there's like formulas.

[John]

Correct.

[Caller D]

Not so much of faith.

[Jay Dyer]

Right, Correct.

[John]

Okay.

[Caller D]

All right.

[Jay Dyer]

And then so for another, another. Another example is that. Another example of absurdity of that is that Roman Catholics believe that atheists and Muslims can baptize you. Orthodox would never believe that you cannot be baptized being atheist or a Muslim.

[Caller D]

Yeah, that's, that's kind of insane.

[Jay Dyer]

Yeah, well, that's the law. That's the logic of their, their position. Go ahead. Next question.

[Caller D]

Something else I was wondering. This isn't so much about Catholicism orthodoxy, but I feel as though I have like a, like, like a moderate grasp on theology. But when I'm trying to talk to people just casually, I don't have a blessing for, you know, proselytizing or anything, but just casually talking to people at church. I feel as though some of the verbiage they use, especially like with people online, like when I'm listening to your streams, it's just like it really goes over my head. So, like, do you really have any suggestions for trying to.

[Jay Dyer]

Yeah, we did it. We did a, we did a stream. Yeah, we did a stream some years ago, called with me and Father Deacon Anais about the theological terms and the philosophical terms. So I would say you could watch that. There's also a great book that Yaroslav Pelican did called Christian. What is it called? The one about the Cappadocians. I always forget the name of this book. I'll be right back with the name of that book. I have to. I gotta piss really bad because I've been drinking like giant jugs of coffee. So I will be right back. We're gonna play the Mormon Spacewife song. I'll go get that book. But don't go anywhere, guys. We'll be right back. Three, two, one more moment space wise

[John]

let's create lives Moment, space

[Jay Dyer]

God has a body. It's a very tone body.

[John]

He looks good. He looks good.

[Jay Dyer]

Mormon space flies

[John]

mommy face wise.

[Jay Dyer]

Magic underwear fitting tight Magic underwear is feeling right. There.

[John]

Let's create.

[Jay Dyer]

Has a body. It's a very to body.

[John]

He looks good. He looks good.

[Jay Dyer]

He looks good. He looks good.

[John]

Morning.

[Jay Dyer]

Space, moment, space. All right, I may have taken that book to Florida. I don't see it here. So let me just look it up for you. The book that's good for learning a lot of the terms and their usage in the the Capadians is Christianity and Classical Culture. The Metamorphosis of Natural Theology in the Christian Encounter with Helenism by Yaroslav Pelican. It's a excellent introduction to the Capadians and their metaphysics and their trinitarian theology. So that's what I'd recommend. And I don't remember the name of the talk we did with FDA many, many years ago. Let's just try terms. Jay Dyer.

[Benjamin]

Slim,

[Jay Dyer]

mysterious philosophy words explained J. Dyer and Deacon Ananias right here. So this one is helpful. We did that seven years ago. Welcome everybody. We've got a nice cozy crowd on Sunday evening. Hope you guys are having fun because had a good. Feast of Pentecost. Happy feast of Pentecost, everyone. Celebrating Acts 2, which is a fulfillment of Joel, which is the last days being brought at the first Advent, which is the ultimate refutation of evangelical nonsense. They all think that everything mentioned is at the end of time, at the end of the age. Jesus brought the end of the age at the first Advent. And so if you went to liturgy today, you were stepping into the eschaton today. But Pentecost is also the empowering of the church. The reversal of Babel, the readings of Pentecost. You always read about Babel and how Pentecost reverses the confusion of the tongues of Babel to make the nations all quote, speak one tongue, not in a globalist sense, but in a Christian sense, right? When everyone grabs the cloak of a Jew to speak one language, which is mentioned in the minor prophets, that is a prediction of the Gospel, the Jew that we grab the cloak of is the cloak of Christ that the woman grabbed who had the issue of blood in the liturgy, you grab the cloak of the priest. That is the one language. It's the language of the gospel. It's not one world order or whatever. The pagan LARPers will say that it's Jewish supremacy.

[Benjamin]

All right, I.

[Jay Dyer]

What's up, man? Okay, we'll return now to normal open Q A. Feel free to bring your questions and your comments, your disagreements, your debates on whatever topic. We can talk about obsession or back rooms, whatever you want, but it's also open floor to talk about all the other things as well. What's up, man? You want to unmute?

[Benjamin]

Hey, I was a little late to the party, so I didn't see what you said about the back rooms, but.

[Jay Dyer]

Well, let me start. Let me start over and do an entire hour all over again. I'm joking.

[Benjamin]

No, I just. I was just curious about the AI implications and, like, people waking up to AI as an aspect of control and

[Jay Dyer]

thinking philosophically about these kinds of things.

[John]

Do you think there's going to be

[Benjamin]

some kind of philosophical awakening among maybe men in particular if, you know, not both? You know, we know it's possible thanks to Rachel and other people, you know, in the space. But, you know, like, do you think

[Jay Dyer]

there's going to be some kind of

[Benjamin]

awakening to this and protest against the technology with more movies like this or. I was just curious about.

[Jay Dyer]

That's a good. It's a good question. It really depends on what direction they go with it. I mean, obviously we know they do want to bring in elements of surveillance, control, tracking, tracing, you know, rationing. All of that is what they want. The exact means by which they'll go about that is. Is unclear. Are they going to go with, will there be an economic collapse? And they try to push a UBI that will be monitored and tracked by AI. Will they. Will it be a war? I don't know the crises that they will use, but they almost always try to capitalize on various crises. So the question really is, you know, what kind of crises are they going to roll out? I don't know. We were speculating about that the other day on a stream. You know, you do have a lot of these fiction presentations, which, you know, we're not. We're not doing divination. You can't use movies as a divination tool. But if you look at the propaganda that they do lace the movies with in the last several years, they do keep pushing. Especially, you know, the. The Obama produced Leave the World behind for Netflix. This idea that we are going to experience some sort of collapse. I'm not saying that means it's so. I'm just saying that if it does happen, we're being conditioned for that through a lot of these films, which is a possibility. But what type of dystopian angle they put on it is unclear. You know, once Trump is gone, it will probably get even worse. So I think one of the dangers is that a lot of the. The infrastructure that they are putting in could be, you know, utilized by, you know, future psycho Dem regimes. For sure. They're obviously way worse than everybody else. But the. But, but the thing is, we saw a coup, right? The harder that they try to enforce that kind of stuff, the more it does wake people up, so. Good question. It's a great question. I don't know what direction it's going to go or how they're going to. We do know that they, no matter what happens, they always continue to push the, you know, the tech, the socialist, technocratic dystopia. Like that's going to be pushed forward by the big Silicon Valley oligarchs no matter what. That was really the majority of my RT interview yesterday. So that'll be out Monday. You can watch the whole interview. But yeah, it's a great question. I don't know, but I do think that guys especially will continue to wake up to it, especially the harder they push the bull crap. So. Blood. Blood.

[Caller D]

Rune.

[Jay Dyer]

No E E Bod drums. Hey, can you hear me? Huh?

[John]

Hey, J.

[Caller E]

Longtime listener, but actually been listening since your first episode on Sam Tripoli way

[John]

back in the day.

[Jay Dyer]

Oh, thank you.

[Caller E]

So I think he gets one conversion point for that.

[John]

At least a half.

[Jay Dyer]

Yeah, we like Triple a lot. I've always loved Triple. He's been all. Never, always been super cool, super helpful. Awesome dude.

[Benjamin]

Yeah.

[Jay Dyer]

So I got a little humor and

[Caller E]

then I got a question for you.

[Jay Dyer]

Seriously. And Triple is really funny. Go ahead.

[Caller E]

Oh, he's so funny.

[Jay Dyer]

Okay, so I've been doing this new

[Caller E]

bit with the catechumens in our church where if they ask you how your catechumin it process was, I'll give him a deadpan look and ask him. It was all pretty good until the circumcision.

[Jay Dyer]

Oh, you go to. You go to Young Dawn Church. Exactly.

[Benjamin]

Yeah.

[Caller E]

Have you scheduled that yet before you're about to. But anyways, I had a question. I've got a father in law who's has been atheist most his life and he'll. He knows that we're orthodox Christians, so he'll kind of test the waters and ask us. He's been recently on a deep Bart Ehrman kick, which, you know, there's, there's a lot of ways you can critique the atheist paradigm anyways. It makes it fall flat. But anyways, do you have any, anything you could recommend as far, as, I don't know, orthodox or even Protestant lens on textual criticism itself? Like.

[Jay Dyer]

Yeah, I mean, it's, it's. Yeah, there's a good little book called the New Testament Documents, Are They Reliable? By FF Breeze. And there's a good little book by Gary north called the Hoax of Higher Criticism, which is a good presuppositional critique because higher criticism is based on like enlightenment scientism and the idea that, oh, we're just actually neutral and we just approach the text with it. No, they don't. They're not neutral. They have a bias of unbelief. So those are a couple little easy accessible books. But you should also ask Father Stephen DeYoung because he's an actual textual scholar, which I'm not. So. Benjamin, what's up?

[Benjamin]

Hey, Jay. Yeah, hey man.

[John]

Quick.

[Benjamin]

First thing I just wanted to say thank you very much. You, Andrew Wilson, Jim Bob, Alex, you're the reason I started listening to orthodox stuff last July and I was just baptized this year.

[Jay Dyer]

Oh, awesome. Many years, dude.

[Benjamin]

Appreciate it.

[Jay Dyer]

Yeah.

[Benjamin]

But one thing I wanted to run by you. You know, the theology stuff is great and most of this stuff is over my head, but I did, I was curious. Have you ever fleshed out a flood model? Are you, have you ever gotten into that?

[Jay Dyer]

I mean, I do believe in a universal flood, which, you know, I argue it just from kind of biblical presuppositions and things like, you know, the universality of the flood myth amongst all the cultures. I don't think the arguments that I've heard for the local regional flood are very convincing. Yeah, but I don't have a quote fleshed out model of like, how the water seeped to every area. Like, and here is how the water drained in the South Pole of the Southern.

[Caller E]

The Southern.

[Jay Dyer]

Like, I don't know about how that actually.

[Benjamin]

Well, I guess it's kind of like my, my nerd sphere is like the evidentiary stuff of, of a worldwide flood, you know, like. Okay, kind of.

[Jay Dyer]

No, I mean, there's There's a place for evidences.

[Benjamin]

Have you ever heard of the hydroplate theory? No, it's, it's one of the best models I've ever seen for the flood. You know, I've dove into, you know, all the answers in Genesis stuff. It all falls short. You know, they appeal to miracles, you know, so it's not really a good evidentiary based theory in my opinion. But the hydroplate theory, I've been studying this for about, you know, I don't know, off and on, 10, 15 years.

[Jay Dyer]

Interesting.

[Benjamin]

And it's incredibly intriguing to me. Like, you know, obviously orthodoxy has taken center stage for me after listening to you guys. But the flood is like a, the next one on the list for me. I was just curious if you'd ever heard of the hydroplate theory.

[Jay Dyer]

I highly recommend, can you give us, can you give us just a, can you give us just a little quick breakdown of what it is?

[Benjamin]

Yeah, sure. So the synopsis I guess of it would be like the, the water was below the, the granite crust. It was trapped down there at extremely high pressures and basically a super critical regime like 380,000 psi. And the release, cataclysmic, you know, obviously it flooded the entire planet, but it goes deeper into even the, the crater patterns on the moon, you know, we're talking about, I mean the theory at least is talking about a cataclysmic eruption velocity is going like 11 to 21 miles per second on some of this material.

[Jay Dyer]

1.21 gigawatts, 1.21 gigawatts. Yeah, I mean, I don't know anything about any of that stuff. So I, I, as you get older, I think you kind of, you know, I tend to not really speak on stuff I don't know that much about. So I don't know about, I don't know, I don't know nothing about no viscosity breakdown and psis, dog. I know that when I pump up a basketball there's psis or whatever side, dude. But anyway, thank you for that. Yeah, people can definitely check out the, the theory that you mentioned. I just find out because, you know, I'm more interested in, you know, mythology and ancient, you know, archetypes and that kind of stuff over scientism stuff. But there's definitely a place for like evidences for sure. We'll see what this video is saying on Earth does.

[Narrator (Flood Myth Video)]

But here's the part no one told you. The oldest version of this tale doesn't come from the Bible. It doesn't even come from Mesopotamia. It comes from a place older than both. A place buried for thousands of years until now. And it might just hold the key to what the flood story is really about. Could this tale remembered across the world be more than a myth? Could it be a memory? Welcome back, darklings. The story begins before the world as we know it.

[Jay Dyer]

I'm already nervous that this is not going to go in a good direction because there's some chick narrating it, calling me one of her darklings. So this. Whatever this video is, it may not be going in a good direction. That might make it actually funny, though.

[Narrator (Flood Myth Video)]

God sends a great flood to cleanse the earth. Noah, a righteous man, is warned in advance. He builds a vessel, gathers his family, and two of every animal. The rain falls for 40 days and nights. The waters rise, and then silence. At last, the ark comes to rest on a mountain. A new world begins. It's one of the oldest.

[Jay Dyer]

Okay, come on, get to your point.

[Narrator (Flood Myth Video)]

Here in what is Now Iraq, around 1700 BC, a clay tablet told of a man named Zusudra. Later, the Akkadians would call him Utnapishtim. He, too, was worn by the gods. He too built a boat. He too, survived a flood that drowned the world.

[Jay Dyer]

By the way, there's the, like, Peruvian flood stories, too. And this ties into what we were talking about the other day about shamanism. One of the things I found fascinating when I was reading Mercilia, Merkia Iliadas, who's a famous Romanian religious scholar, I've got. I've read two of his books. I've got like seven of his books, but he's got a really good book on the history of shamanism. And what blew me away, this is something Jordan Peterson talks about, too, is that all the shamans across the world describe the same process of the shamanic trip, right? You go into the other world in the vision quest, and the demons ritually dismember you and eat you and then, like, vomit you back up, right? That's the process of. By the way, in the back rooms, right? Clark got consumed by the demon in the. In the back room. But this idea of being dismembered and eaten, then coming back seems to be the same. Why would disparate tribes have the same experience? And I want to say it was. I know it was in several of the old Jordan Peterson lectures, but he might have even brought this up to Matt Dullamonkey in the debate. But he said something akin to this, like, what's the naturalistic explanation of, you know, shamans and people having these archetypal commonalities amongst these types of experiences, why would there be those? I mean, if we're just matter in motion, it doesn't really make sense why these disparate cultures would have similar patterns, motifs, and archetypes.

[Narrator (Flood Myth Video)]

But this story refuses to stay in one land. In Greece, Deucalion and Pyrrha survive the wrath of Zeus drifting in a chest as the earth disappears beneath the sea. In India, the God Vishnu, disguised as a fish, warns Manu and leads his boat to safety.

[Jay Dyer]

I didn't know there was an Indian. I mean, I know that most cultures have one. I didn't know what the Indian one was, though.

[Narrator (Flood Myth Video)]

Mesoamerican myths tell a rain that doesn't just fall, it devours the world in thunder and darkness. Like in the Maya story of the third creation, drowned when human humans angered the gods. In China, ancient legends speak of floods so vast that only divine emperors could tame the waters. Even in places untouched by empire, from aboriginal Australia to the Andaman Islands, the tale endures of water rising, of everything being.

[Jay Dyer]

By the way, this is not an argument. It's just my anecdotal observation. If you look at the Grand Canyon. And look at that fat chick, dude, she's about to fall off that. There's no way that's real. That's got to be AI. All I want is a picture of the Grand Canyon. Dude, this is crazy. Come on, now. Now I want to watch this. This fat chick traversing the Grand Canyon. Okay, I know this is all creepy pasta stories. That's not what I want. Here we go. This is what I'm looking for. Now. The atheist bros are gonna go crazy when I say this. I don't give a. Okay, does that not look like water? Like, drained at certain layers and levels? Right. If you've seen water drain out of a place, that's exactly what it looks like, right? It looks like at these different sedimentary levels or whatever, the water was just sort of draining out. And to me, it looked. I mean, is that not plausible? I mean, I'm probably. Other people have made this argument. I don't know that it's actually a. A solid line of argument, but I'm just saying it looks like, you know, a giant body of water, you know, drained down and left these sort of indentions and layers there. But I don't know. It's just something I've always thought about when I would look at the Grand Canyon.

[Narrator (Flood Myth Video)]

Lost of one who is warned and who survives. Different name.

[Jay Dyer]

Oh, another idea too that I've never heard a good atheist explanation. And I want you guys in the chat, too, because probably other people thought about this. This is just. I was walking one day and we were. I was thinking about all the lakes and ponds. Okay? If you go to Michigan or someplace, like, there's just thousands, million, maybe millions. I don't even know how many lakes there are. There's like millions of lakes and ponds in the world. Michigan alone probably has thousands. Right? And I get that, okay, maybe some of them are connected in some way through underground waterways, but they're not all connected through underground waterways. It's not like there's Mario warp pipes, you know, in every. Every pond or lake. But how are their fish in every disconnected or almost every disconnected pond or lake? It doesn't seem plausible to me that, oh, tornadoes picked the fish up and threw them into all of the ponds. And, like, that doesn't seem plausible to me. I don't exactly know the answer to this, but if there was a flood and the waters receded, that would potentially explain how there are fish. And you could say, well, but humans have gone to many, many, many lakes and ponds throughout the world, and so they perhaps introduced fish into all the ponds. Well, okay, but there's a lot of lakes and ponds that humans have never even gone to, discovered, or interacted with, and presumably they all also have fish. Now you're going to say, oh, well, a bird picked up a fish and took it over to another lake. Really? So all of the lakes and ponds had birds dropping fish. And I mean, that just seems a little much. Maybe they spawned. Okay, but how did the eggs get there to spawn? There you go. You guys are missing the point of the question. People are like, the fish spawned in them. How did the fish get to it? Is the point. How did fish. The ducks ate them. And that's stupid. So what I'm saying is on the evolutionary model, how there. I mean. Okay, let's say for the sake of argument, the evolutionary model is right. There would be one area where the first emergent, 1 3rd, 1 4th, 1 2nd, 2 thirds fish, you know, flopped out. Right. Minnesota has 3 million acres of lakes alone. Exactly. Okay, how did all of them

[John]

on

[Jay Dyer]

the evolutionary model get fish in them? Birds. The eggs stick to birds. So every lake and pond in the world just happened to get a fish egg stuck to a bird's leg. Okay, but that's what I'm saying is like, so. But by the way, it's. You keep in mind it's not just one type of Fish in a pond, right? You can have tons of types of fish in a pond. Now what I'm saying is that if there was a flood, you could. That makes. Makes sense, right? Whenever the waters receded, many of those fish stayed in the remaining bodies of water. When the waters receded. This is just my own speculation. I don't know if anybody else is talking about this. The ice melted. That doesn't make it so. If the ice are all frozen, I mean, the fish are frozen in ice, glaciers, and it melts. They're not going to be alive, dude. Doesn't make any sense. And by the way, how would there be fish eggs that spread out to, like, make it into all the lakes and ponds? There was an earthquake and then a tsunami and then basically. So what you guys are saying is the tornadoes jizzed all of the fish eggs into all of the bodies of water. That's what I'm saying. Like, if. When I start to think through the naturalistic explanations, they seem more fantastical than any of the religious or mythological or creation narratives. It just. None of them, none of the naturalistic explanation, they seem more fantastical. That's what is weird. I've always thought that the tectonic plates, the fish flew there. Okay, yeah, right. Fish. NATO. Yeah, exactly, dude. That's what I'm saying. Like, the naturalistic explanation is literally like sharknado, dude. Oh, yeah. The tornadoes jizzed out all of the fish eggs everywhere. Okay, so you're telling me that your naturalistic explanation is literally. Is literally sharknado, but it's the same for the naturalistic explanation of how planets form. It's just as stupid. They literally will just say that it's like belly button lint. Oh, well, out in space, ship blew up and then it just started spinning and then it congealed and then it cooled down. What? Belly button lint in space just starts spinning. What the are you talking about? This is literally the science bros Explanation. I remember sitting in my astronomy class and we were having this whole discussion when I was a freshman or sophomore college. And the atheist guys up there, like, I'm like, can you explain to me the natural explanation? And we play this video, right? And he's like, yeah, it makes perfect sense. In a vacuum just starts spinning. Why would it start spinning in a vacuum? It just did. That's literally their exposure. Just did. Let's. Let's watch an example. I guarantee we can find an easy one. By the way, if I wasn't a Christian, I still wouldn't believe the naturalist the naturalist explanations are stupid. They don't make any sense. I don't know what I would believe. I'll say this, I don't believe in the simulation theory. The simulation theory makes more sense than, oh, the planets just started spinning because dust collected. Why would it collect? Why would dust just collect in a vacuum? All right, let's watch that. The naturalistic explanation of planets forming. Let's see what they say here.

[Science Narrator]

Formation of the planets. The universe comprises countless galaxies.

[Jay Dyer]

Let's speed this up, by the way.

[Science Narrator]

Each one containing numerous stars. Around some of those stars, there are planets just like those that orbit our own star, the Sun. The nebular hypothesis is the most widely accepted explanation for how the sun and planets in the solar system may have formed. When our solar system was first created, all that was thought to have existed was a cold, spinning cloud of gas called the solar nebula. The nebula resulted from an uneven distribution of gases throughout the universe.

[Jay Dyer]

Notice right away, like this is all speculation. Nobody knows a billion years ago what the solar nebula was doing. It's just, just made up.

[Science Narrator]

As the gravitational pull began to condense the gas toward the center, the speed of the rotation increased.

[Jay Dyer]

This is what I'm telling you. Oh, there's just, there's dust out there. It starts spinning and it collects.

[Science Narrator]

This caused the cloud to flatten. Creating.

[Jay Dyer]

It caused the cloud to flatten. Okay, is there gravity in space? Because you understand, things flatten when they're spinning due to gravity. Is there gravity in a vacuum? Perhaps. I mean, they're going to say, well, the planets have gravitational pull and whatnot. Okay, but how do we know that there's regularity of gravity a billion years ago? Oh, well, we just assume it. Oh, so we, we assume the very thing that underlies the possibility of this theory, but we don't know. There's absolutely no way to know or to test that the regularity of nature in the stellar sphere was the same way it was a billion years ago. Maybe, but how do we know?

[Science Narrator]

Well, we just say it was an accretion disk. Matter continued to collect as the growing.

[Jay Dyer]

See, matter just collects in an accretion disc 1 billion years ago? Oh, yeah, sure.

[Science Narrator]

Force of gravity drew it toward the center. Eventually, the gas warmed from the increasing pressure as the mass further increased the gra.

[Jay Dyer]

Notice, it just does it. It's just so, it just forms. It's the belly button lint theory of planets. I regularly check my belly button and then there's a ball of lint in there. I don't know where it came from. It Just forms. Every week or two weeks, I will find a collection of. It just. It's like the planets, dude, it's the belly button lint theory of planets.

[Science Narrator]

Gravity also increased and as a result, the.

[Jay Dyer]

Why did the gravity increase for. So for this theory that's already resting on untested, unprovable, you know, regularities in nature billion years ago. Well, it just increased. Who increased it? Why?

[John]

What.

[Jay Dyer]

What's the source of the spin cycle here? What deity, what science deity turned up the spin cycle to increase the gravity?

[Science Narrator]

Temperature continued to rise. A ball of hot gas formed in the center of the.

[Jay Dyer]

Why did a ball of hot gas just suddenly form? If we spin our spin cycle will a ball of hot gas just up here. If we do it fast enough, disk

[Science Narrator]

creating a protostar, also known as the sun.

[Jay Dyer]

Okay, nobody has observed this. Keep in mind, right? There is no observation of spin cycle belly button lint theory of planets forming, Right? It's all just again, a billion years ago, this. This was observed. No. Well then how do we know? Well, it just happened.

[Science Narrator]

Finally, when enough gas gathered in the center of the protostar, the pressure generated enough heat to fuse the atoms, forming a star. Outside the star, matter was forming into clumps of gas, dust and rock.

[Jay Dyer]

So notice. Why was the matter forming? It was just forming. This is a story. It's a very boring story too. Like the scientism bro stories. They're actually really boring too. Well, the rocks just formed. Why? They just did. Stop asking why. They just did. It's just so. Okay, it's just so.

[Science Narrator]

Which created protoplanets. These protoplanets continued to grow as they trapped material in their gravitational fields.

[Jay Dyer]

So they just collected us like belly button. Exactly as I said. Right? And then if after one zillion years, it becomes a planet. Where does water come from? Why is there water on the planet? Okay, we're talking about like zillions of degrees. Oh, but then the water just appears and then the living thing, they just appear. They just show up.

[Science Narrator]

Because the protoplanets all formed from the same cloud of gas and dust. They travel around the sun in the same direction and in the same plane. The nebular hypothesis also explains how the planets are arranged. The heat and solar winds caused by the sun swept the lighter gases farther out into the developing solar system. This is why the rocky terrestrial planets Mercury, Venus, Earth and Mars are located closer to the Sun. The gas giants Jupiter, Saturn, Uranus and Neptune formed in the cooler outer region of the solar system. The solar system continued to evolve even after its initial formation. Large asteroids slammed into planets. And the planets themselves differentiate, by the way.

[Jay Dyer]

Has anybody actually been underneath the storms on those outer planets? No. How do we know that they're just gas giants? How do we know that there's nothing under the storms? Maybe there's a giant solid world there. Like, we don't know. It's just all assumed, dude. Well, we have telescopes. Yeah, but you don't see underneath the storms through a telescope. So how do you know.

[Science Narrator]

Made it into layers as they slowly cooled. Although the nebular hypothesis cannot be directly.

[Jay Dyer]

Oh, interesting. You hear that? We can't actually prove this thesis. Interesting. So notice how many just. Just so's there were in this story. Well, it just started spinning and then it just started cooling. Why? Why did it just start cooling? Entropy. Where did the water come from? Well, it just formed, so it just happened. Oh, but God just did it, right? If you say that. Oh, you're a retard.

[John]

You're.

[Jay Dyer]

You don't believe in science. Well, at least with my explanation, there's intentionality and explanation. Explanatory power in your explanation. It's just so. And there's like 10 points where you said it's just so. Well, the water just formed. Well, it just started spinning. Well, it just appeared.

[Science Narrator]

Even after its initial formation, large asteroids slammed into planets, and the planets themselves differentiated into layers as they slowly cooled.

[Jay Dyer]

How do we know that that's what the giant asteroids colliding into them did? I mean, maybe, but how do we know that? I mean, I'm not saying there aren't asteroids hitting planets. I'm just saying how do we know that asteroids hitting planets caused them to do this or that or too cool or to not cool?

[Science Narrator]

Although the nebular hypothesis cannot be directly tested.

[Jay Dyer]

Oh, interesting. So it's a story. It's a mythology. It's a scientism mythology. So you.

[Benjamin]

You.

[Jay Dyer]

Did you hear what he just said? This is science and it cannot be tested or proven. Well, it's the nebular theory. Oh, but this is the dominant explanation of the formation of planets. And how many times do people who are, you know scientism, Rose? How many times do they qualify it by saying, well, it is just a theory? No, they act like it's dogma, the

[Science Narrator]

useful description for how a solar system forms.

[Jay Dyer]

Oh, so wait a minute. So all I need is a useful description. Okay, well then theism is a useful description.

[John]

There you go.

[Jay Dyer]

Scientism has nothing better, according to what he just said, than what theism brings. Because if all I need is a useful description, that can't be proven. Then what's wrong with creationism?

[Science Narrator]

It explains why planets and the star they orbit usually spin in the same direction.

[Jay Dyer]

It doesn't explain. It just says it's so and lie

[Science Narrator]

in the same plane. It also explains the arrangement of the planets with the rocky planets nearest to the sun and the gas giants farther.

[Jay Dyer]

Yeah, but why is there an atmosphere? Why is there water? Why is there life? It doesn't explain any of that. It just says, well, it's just so. So anyway, you get the idea, right? So that's the belly button theory. I mean, this is literally like, I mean, the story of the Greek myths of the Titans striking mud with lightning and that that accidentally creates. Man, that makes more sense than belly button just spinning, dude. I mean, you're telling me that you want me to believe Sharknado

[John]

just can't sit back and watch this?

[Jay Dyer]

The way that fish got into all. And not just one type of fish, every type of fish and wild variations of living creatures, by the way, they just got thrown by tornadoes. It's time to leave Kansas, man. But hey, I'm not a science bro. I'm not a biology bro. So please, science bros, feel free to call in and correct me on why the belly button lint theory of planet formations is somehow sensible. Especially since the science video that we just watched said it can't be proven, it can't be tested. And. And how. Please tell me how there's fish in every lake and pond, or most of them, when they're just. They're disparate, discreet, and disconnected. And don't tell me that tornadoes just jizzed all the fish egg into all of the ponds. It doesn't make sense to me.

[Narrator (Flood Myth Video)]

Different gods, but always the same story. Why? Why does the same myth rise again and again in cultures, oceans apart, cultures that had never met? Could it be coincidence? Or is this a memory of something we were.

[Jay Dyer]

This chick's video is a little better than I expected it to be.

[Narrator (Flood Myth Video)]

Ever meant to forget. Why do cultures from opposite sides of the world all tell the same story? How is that even possible? One answer is that they're remembering the same event not 5,000 years ago, but 10. At the end of the last ice age, the world began to melt. Imagine standing at the edge of your village, watching the ocean climb ever closer towards you year on year. Glacier.

[Jay Dyer]

I mean, I'm not even sure I believe in ice ages. I don't. Again, all this stuff is just people's theories. And half of the shit that they talk about, they Admit. You can't test or prove. I mean, maybe, maybe there was some. But, I mean, if there was a global flood, it makes sense why there would be areas where there's like massive layers of frozen shit. And it also explains why in the different layer layers of the ice strata, you get fossils that extend between and down through strata that. That they're supposedly not supposed to be able to do. Same with fossils too, by the way.

[Narrator (Flood Myth Video)]

The size of continents collapsed. Rivers swelled and reversed. Oceans surged, and the Earth's coastlines, the places where our ancestors lived, fished, raised children were swallowed by the sea. This wasn't a single flood. It was many. And they came in terrifying pulses. Scientists call them meltwater pulses. Sudden sea level surges that rose as much as 30ft in a human lifetime. In northern Europe, Doggerland, the land that once connected Britain to the continent, was consumed by the North Sea. In Southeast Asia, a landmass the size of India, Sunderland disappeared beneath the waves.

[Jay Dyer]

When we were talking about megaliths a while back, wasn't there somebody that called in and talked about that they discovered. I'm just going from memory, I could be wrong. There was like, recent megalith discoveries at this supposed Doggerland, which I'm not. I don't know if that was real or not. I'm just saying somebody was talking about that maybe like a year ago on a live stream.

[Narrator (Flood Myth Video)]

And in the Black Sea, sediment layers suggest a catastrophic flood, one so abrupt, some believe it inspired the biblical account. But the evidence isn't just geological. The ruins of ancient cities tell the same story. At Shurupak, Kish and Ur, archaeological evidence shows thick flood layers abruptly ending civilizations. But these floods may have had an even older trigger.

[Jay Dyer]

By the way, doesn't Plato also describe Atlantis being destroyed by a giant flood?

[Narrator (Flood Myth Video)]

Around 12,800 years ago, the Earth plunged into a mysterious deep freeze, a mini ice age known as the Younger Dryas. But no one knows why it happened. One theory says something struck us. A comet or meteor crashing into the North American ice sheet. The blast could have vaporized miles of ice, sparked global wildfires, and triggered earthquakes, superfloods and tsunamis on a cataclysmic scale. The kind of devastation you never forget, the kind that lives on in legend.

[Jay Dyer]

I will say that I do think there's something to cat. Cataclysm, Catastrophism. Excuse me, Emmanuel Belikovsky. I mean, I think he's kind of a. Kind of out there. But, you know, when you look at the planets and you look at the. The Earth, it does look like it's just been through hell. Like it looks like it's been, you know, it looks like a damn, you know, a hoe that was just. Just beat the hell by its pimp. You know what I'm saying? It looks like it was just chopped. Chopped and screwed. It looks like there were cataclysms. And if you believe the Genesis narrative, the Fall wasn't just Earth. The Fall was cosmic in scope. In the orthodox perspective, to me, that makes sense, you know, why the whole universe looks, you know, basically cataclysm. It looks like a giant cataclysm. Right. When you see the planets through the telescope, whatever the planets are, you see, they look like they've just been beat to hell. You know what I'm saying? They look like a damn, you know, a prostitute. After the pimps had his way, even

[Narrator (Flood Myth Video)]

Plato, writing in 360 BC spoke of a mighty civilization drowned in a single day and night of catastrophe. He called it Atlantis. And while many dismiss it as allegory, the date he gives 9,000 years before his time aligns uncannily with the final.

[Jay Dyer]

I want to say, too, you know, when you read. And it's been some years since I read it, but I think, you know, Atlantis comes up in a couple of the Platonic dialogues. It's up. It's in Crito, it's in, I think, Timaeus and maybe one more. But the description Plato gives, I don't know. And it may just be something I haven't read yet because I haven't read everything in Plato. But I don't know where people get this idea that they had spaceships and flying it. He just describes it as like a city. Like that image there. I'm going from memory, it's like a city of concentric circles. And he says they had, like, advanced weaponry and technology for the times, but I don't. He doesn't describe saucers or any of that kind of. That kind of stuff. But if I remember, the description of it is something like this, right? Where you have these concentric circles and canals and whatnot. So it was probably just like an advanced civilization for that time. And I think Father Stephen DeYoung was saying something like that to Tucker. John, did you want to say something?

[John]

Well, a lot of that stuff comes from Zachariah Sitchin.

[Jay Dyer]

Exactly. It was a con man.

[John]

Yeah. And then as far as, like, I myself was an agnostic at some point. And as far like, exactly what you're saying is, like, the Earth looks like there's cataclysmic events.

[Jay Dyer]

Right.

[John]

Even with. I've read Belcosky too.

[Jay Dyer]

Yeah.

[John]

But it's all rooted in secularism.

[Jay Dyer]

Right.

[John]

And it's like, even if you come to a conclusion, like as an agnostic or a secularist, it's like, oh, why wouldn't the biblical events be relevant too? And so yeah, basically if you read Father Sarah from Rose, I'm forgetting the title at the moment.

[Jay Dyer]

What's the Genesis? Creation Early Man.

[John]

Yeah, that's the best explanation, really.

[Jay Dyer]

It is. I think so. And also I'm going for memory because it was a long time ago when I read Genesis Creation Early Man. But I think Father Serfim Rose doesn't believe the Nephilim view. Is that correct? If you guys remember that, have read it more recently. So I mean, you know, Nephilim is not part of dogma. You can have a different opinion on that. The church fathers have pretty differing opinions. But to me it also makes sense that if there had there, if there were these bizarre aberrations at the time of Genesis and Genesis 6, that also makes sense why it would be, you know, a global flood. Because in the book of Enoch, these Titans, these offspring are basically enslaving and, and ruling humanity and forcing them to engage in essentially the same type of degenerate practices that the Canaanites later enjoying in, in the promised land. Right. So it makes sense why. Okay. That whole world's got to be, got to be wiped out, including especially these, you know, evil Titans that are, that are running. Go ahead.

[John]

But here's another thing I was reading. Yuval Harari.

[Jay Dyer]

Uhhuh.

[John]

And any of the present day evolutionary biologists, any, any reference to evolution is like there's no, there's no reference to like what they're talking about. They just assume evolution. So.

[Jay Dyer]

Right.

[John]

All of those books, it's like assume that evolution is a given and everybody believes it. And that's been a going thing from like at least the 1950s or 60s.

[Jay Dyer]

Sure.

[John]

Where they, where they don't have to like give a, they don't have, have to give a reference for what they're talking about when assuming evolution. And evolution is just assumed as being like the thing, like creation is not even assumed to be a real thing. And we've grown up with all of that.

[Jay Dyer]

Yeah, it's, it's the, the air. The air and the water that we, the air we breathe, the water we swim in is this entire worldview. And what's funny about it, as you know, Chris used to point out, when we would do The. The afternoon commute and hoaxbusters calls. Everything is an argument for evolution. You know, Chris pointed out, for example, that there used to be commercials that would come on and they would say, the cat food that we're selling in this cat, in this commercial is actually evolutionarily designed to be best for your cat. And so even products, even consumer items are supposedly designed on the basis of evolution. Like, it's like everything is a proof for evolution, which means that evolution is really unfalsifiable. And I'm speaking here of, like, Macro

[John]

even says in that book, because, you know, Harari's gay.

[Jay Dyer]

Yeah. Homosexuality is evidence for it, too.

[John]

Right. He has a book called recommendations for the 21st century or something like that. And he says that if people start to be gay, then that's the proof of evolution, because anything that people do is natural.

[Jay Dyer]

Exactly. Which is a fallacy. But who cares? You're harare about fallacies. It reminds me of what we used to talk about, too, with. With Dawkins. Right? Remember Dawkins? You guys used to say when they thought there were vestigial organs? Dawkins would say, look, vestigial organs is 100 proof of, you know, these irrelevant, you know, body parts that just sort of mutate that don't have any purpose that proves evolution. Then when they figured out that there's not junk DNA and that some of these vestigial organs actually have a purpose, well, oh, look, that's another proof of evolution, that evolution is designing us to be the most fit. So it's like, wait a minute. Or is junk DNA approved against evolution, or is it approved for evolution? It's both. And you can actually watch people Chris used to clip together Dawkins contradicting himself. We now know that junk DNA is proof of evolution. And then 10 years later, when they decide that junk DNA is not junk, it actually has a purpose. We now know that there's no junk DNA, and that proves evolution. So everything, literally everything is approved evolution.

[John]

Well, especially around that time of the, like, the turn of the millennium, like 2000s. I was. I was reading this book the other day. It's called Sex in the Future. It's by the eugenicist biologist Robin Baker.

[Jay Dyer]

Huh.

[John]

And he specifically talks about in his book, if you want to go get this book. It's a very sick, disgusting book. Because he says future, which might be the future that we're existing in, in the moment. He said that incest is gonna be, like, no big thing, because that's just what.

[Jay Dyer]

That's just evolution. Yeah, it's like Peter Singer, too, right? Peter Singer. Well, what's.

[John]

Yeah, exactly.

[Benjamin]

Him too.

[Jay Dyer]

Exactly.

[John]

It's like, oh, oh, we'll. We'll get past all of our, like, moral hang ups. Yeah, yeah. The moral hang ups of the. Of all of the ancestral things of the. Of the past. We'll just get over all of that.

[Jay Dyer]

Yeah. By the way, which, ironically, aren't. I mean, wouldn't skittles butt stuff not be advantageous for the. For the survival of the species on their own grounds? It's so

[Narrator (Flood Myth Video)]

Ice age floods.

[John]

He deals with that in the book. And he says the way they're gonna get over that is by growing babies in labs.

[Jay Dyer]

Yeah. Brave new world. Exactly.

[Narrator (Flood Myth Video)]

Could Atlantis 2 be a fragment of the same shattered memory? Again and again, in place after place, the world drowns. This isn't just mythology. This is the moment humanity nearly disappeared. In every version of the Flood myth, there's a warning, a dream, a voice, a God or something like one reaching out to a single chosen human. And always with the same instructions. Build, gather, save what you can. But why must the world be destroyed at all? In the Atrahasis epic, humanity has become too noisy, disturbing the sleep of the gods. In the book of Enoch, the Calcified.

[Jay Dyer]

What's up, man? What's on your mind? Calcified? You want to talk on mute?

[Benjamin]

Hold on.

[John]

Mute.

[Jay Dyer]

Okay.

[John]

Thank you.

[Jay Dyer]

It's an honor to speak with you, man. Listen to you all the time. Cool beans. I love it when you fill in on infowars. Thank you. Yeah, I just wanted to comment on the. The formation of the solar system. Okay. It's. It has to do with the conservation

[John]

of energy that the gravity just doesn't,

[Jay Dyer]

like, pop up out of nowhere. Has to do with particles colliding with one another and the conservation of angular momentum and rotational velocity. And that just starts a feedback loop for the accretion. Okay, but where. Where. Where does what? Starts? The spinning. Why does it form? Okay, so the closer you are to the star, when the star turns on the explosion, the energy from the explosion. Have you been close to a star?

[Benjamin]

No.

[Jay Dyer]

So how do you know that? How do you know that? How do you know that this happens? Because we can observe it happening. Where is that happening? Were you observing that? Well, it's very far away, and we have to rely on X ray and other radiation telescopes to see it happen. So you're not actually observing it, you're observing it secondhand through, Correct?

[Benjamin]

Correct.

[John]

Okay.

[Jay Dyer]

Now, those waves, because there is very little friction in space, A neighboring star when it turns on or it explodes. You sound like a Mormon describing the. The. The way that things happen on Kolob. Because this just sounds like storytelling to me. How is this not just like Isaac Asimov storytelling?

[Benjamin]

You're not wrong.

[Jay Dyer]

I'm just making the argument for it. Okay? I have a degree in science education. This was explained to me. I need to be able to explain this. Yeah, I mean, I get it. I've heard it my whole life. I understand that, you know, this is how it. But would you agree that these principles rely on some degree of uniformity in nature being. Being the case a billion years ago? Yeah, absolutely. Okay. How do we know that a billion years ago the universe function metaphysically or physically with the same types of principles? We don't. No, we don't. But the thing is, the model is able to make predictions and we can

[John]

see

[Jay Dyer]

the universes or solar systems in various stages of development from afar. But it is only an inference. Right. You know? Right. Well, the other thing too, about that idea that this is sort of a, you know, a theoretical assessment, interpretation of the data, and therefore it's useful because it can make explanatory. It has explanatory power. One of the ways that philosophy, and I'm not trying to be dismissive or rude, I think I appreciate you calling in and giving some of those. Those accounts. Like in philosophy, we have this idea of the under determination of data thesis, right? Which is the idea that you can have differing models that have the exact same explanatory power. And giving more data or more facts can never necessarily tell you which of the models you're supposed to adopt, because the model itself encompasses all the data and the facts. Right. And the way that scientism bros think is they think, well, I can just stack up a bunch more data and that will tell you the right model or the right paradigm. No, it doesn't. Let me give an example. Tolkien's Middle Earth narrative has tremendous explanatory value. If I were to take the Middle Earth narrative and paradigm as a way to perhaps describe ancient history, the history of this world, perhaps, right? It would. It would be able to give me a lot of regularity, a lot of predictive power, but it wouldn't make it true. And no scientism bro would admit that. But it's a coherent narrative, a coherent story. And if Illuvatar created this world and there were these ancient ages, that would explain some of the things that happened in the ancient world, you know, past that, the way things look cataclysms, etc. It would explain mythology in terms of beings that are no longer around. So what I'm saying is that when people say things have, quote, explanatory power, I'm not saying that's not part of a good paradigm or good argument, but that alone is very arbitrary and hollow because what I think is being explained can already be in line with what my presuppositions and my biases are. And that's why you have the under determination of data problem in epistemology. Yeah. Ancient numenor. That's Atlantis. Exactly. Is that the data is interpreted through the paradigm. So accumulating and stacking up more data is not going to tell me which paradigms.

[Benjamin]

Right.

[Jay Dyer]

That's the problem, at least at this juncture. Benjamin, what's up, dude? But I thank you for that call. That was a. I appreciate his call.

[Benjamin]

AJ Yeah, I just wanted to go back to kind of like you were, you were looking at the, the flood myths and stuff on that one lady's video.

[Jay Dyer]

Yeah, I'm about to go back to that. Go ahead.

[Benjamin]

Oh, yeah, So I wanted to kind of like bring some evidentiary stuff into that. During the days of P. Leg when the earth was divided, going back into the, the hydroplate kind of theory you're

[Jay Dyer]

talking about in Genesis. What was that you're talking about in Genesis, for those that don't know. Yeah, yeah.

[Benjamin]

So I think there's a, an evidence here that a lot of people miss for the mythology when, when, when there could be some actual evidence here. We know that the northern glaciers were go all the way down into the Midwest. You know, like the caps were enormous, the north cap and the south cap. So when we have all that ice, all that water locked up in ice on top of continental plates, that I believe is talking about the water rising from the ice melt runoff into the newly formed flood basins from the cataclysm. Because we know through the migrations of animals, you know, we see like, oh, kangaroos are, are isolated in Australia and this and that and the other. These things all make sense if they are migrating on foot.

[Jay Dyer]

Yeah, exactly. I mean, animals are always in the front,

[Benjamin]

right?

[Jay Dyer]

No, I'm just agreeing. I'm familiar with this argument about animals.

[Benjamin]

Yeah, right. So I mean, in, in the hydroplate theory, you know, we, we look at, or Walt Brown looks at evidences like the, the remains underneath the, the water 2300ft down off the west coast of Cuba. Now you can, you can look at that and say like, oh, well, we, we're gonna fancifully say that like this is like Atlantis and they like.

[Jay Dyer]

Well, remains of what?

[Benjamin]

What are the sea level.

[Jay Dyer]

Hey, slow down. What are the remains there? I don't know. What, what, what is that? Remains of what?

[Benjamin]

If you like Google it real quick, you can pull up. There's like pyramid structures, there's 90 degree angles. It's like sonar imaging. It's not direct optical imaging because it's dark at that depth.

[Jay Dyer]

Okay, slow down. So what am I looking up? Tell me again.

[Benjamin]

Let's see. Look at, Let me mute the TV

[John]

and turn you that.

[Jay Dyer]

Is there something on YouTube I could pull up?

[Benjamin]

Yeah, if you look at the hydro plate overview video, it's only eight minutes longest. Walt Brown explaining the. I didn't hear you, Jay.

[Jay Dyer]

I didn't say anything.

[Benjamin]

Oh, sorry. Yeah, there's a delay on the tv, but yeah, if you look up Walt Brown's hydroplate overview, it's eight minutes long and it gives a really, we can sit concise kind of series of operations of the year long flood phase.

[Jay Dyer]

Okay, and where in this does he talk about what you're talking about with the. Because I really want to talk about some of the megalith ancient type stuff. Is that towards the end or where.

[Benjamin]

I mean, I don't want to toot my own horn or anything, but that's kind of like my own work. Like I've been chasing this stuff a long time.

[Jay Dyer]

Okay, well, I mean I'll check out his, I'll check out his video later, but I really want to see the thing you're talking about. So where is that?

[Benjamin]

If you just Google structures 2300ft off west coast of Cuba. I mean it'll come up, you'll see like pyramid structures and crazy stuff.

[Jay Dyer]

Okay, that's what I was looking for.

[Benjamin]

Yeah, there's many of them. I mean this is off the coast of Japan. You've got, you've got in the Mediterranean. You know, like secular science says, oh well, you know, human history has only been present for a hundred and or like 202 or 300ft of sea level change. I'm like, that's, that's 100% because we have structures built down at these crazy depths.

[Jay Dyer]

Yes. And so this is supposed to be allegedly. These are the, the, the pyramids and structures off of the coast, coast of Cuba. I don't think I've seen these. I think I've heard of this, but I don't think I've seen these before. So this is megaliths near Cuba underwater.

[Benjamin]

Yes.

[Jay Dyer]

And this would. And, and to have, you're saying to have structures built at that level also undercuts the narrative of. What? What did you say? Can you repeat that last part?

[Benjamin]

Old age paradigms, just.

[Jay Dyer]

Oh, yeah, yeah, exactly. Interesting. Interesting.

[Benjamin]

Yeah, because I mean, you know, you either have to take the case of, oh, well, these were built way up in elevation and they subsided there. But if you would say that, you wouldn't expect to see unbroken shit.

[Jay Dyer]

Right, Interesting.

[Benjamin]

You know, you expect to see deformed, barely recognizable structures.

[Jay Dyer]

Yeah, this one is interesting. I'm not.

[Benjamin]

I cover a lot of it in my show. I mean, it's like nobody's heard the. That I say, but it's my obsession, so I talk about it. Noah's flood has always intrigued me.

[Jay Dyer]

All right, well, I'll follow you back and maybe we can chat, we'll do a podcast or something about this stuff. Since you, you're. This is your thing. Is there any other interesting megalith structures like this that you would mention that come to mind? Well, I know there's tons of them

[Benjamin]

places, possible remnants of Atlantis. You know, you talk. Plato's talking about concentric structures and these things. Well, if you correlate this, this massive sea level rise, you know, of 2,300ft to what it is now, that opens up a shit ton of possibilities. And if you look at the mid Atlantic Ridge, which is the biggest non compression and uplift mountain chain on the planet, there's plenty of land there for something in the middle of the Atlantic that would pretty much exactly mirror Plato's story.

[Jay Dyer]

Okay, well, can you get. Just give me one rattle one off top of your head right now. I can look up.

[Benjamin]

I mean, you can look at my show. I mean, it's like.

[Jay Dyer]

Well, what's your show?

[Benjamin]

It's called the Flood and the Fallout.

[Jay Dyer]

Is it on YouTube?

[Benjamin]

It's on. Although like the audio platform.

[Jay Dyer]

Okay, well can you tell me one? I can look up real quick on YouTube right now on the Atlantic.

[Benjamin]

I mean there's, there's several people that, you know, say, oh, okay, west off the Straits of Gibraltar. It has to be, you know, on an uplift towards. Somewhere towards the center of the Atlantic. Like that. That is the prime. That's the prime location according to the stories that are told. And if you take into account this massive ice run, you know, melt off, that fills the basins post flood.

[Jay Dyer]

Yeah, I'm familiar with that one. The one in Japan. I'm sure you know about that one.

[Benjamin]

Everybody talks about the Japanese steps.

[Jay Dyer]

Here's a Video talking about Atlantic underwater structures. Some of these. It's hard to tell what that is. It's just like, just like dirt.

[Benjamin]

But I mean, it's incredibly interesting stuff. I mean, I know you take the theological side of it and like, that's what made me orthodox, so. Thank you. But like, this is also very. Yeah, very intriguing.

[Jay Dyer]

You know, I, I don't have any hard views or opinions on most of this stuff. I think it's. It's so speculative. It's hard to be like dogmatic about it.

[Benjamin]

But I just don't see any reason to compromise with the evolutionary old age paradigm. I just, you know, I mean, like, I see what the Orthodox church says about everything and like, basically your mean, quote unquote meanness and authoritative way of saying what things are is what brought me over.

[Jay Dyer]

Well, appreciate that. And yeah, I followed you back so we can chat about a future chat. But you know, when it comes to the scientism bros and people that call in, I usually just run the same line of skeptical philosopher philosophical questioning. Right. So people think that I have some sort of like weird dogmatic take. And actually I'm just asking normal philosophical questions of like, okay, how do we know this? Did we observe this? Because when it comes to all this kind of stuff, I'm actually way more of a skeptic because this is the kind of that people are like dogmatic about. I mean like the scientism people. And I would argue that I'm actually more scientific than many of them because I'm actually just being a legitimate. Okay, cool, maybe this is true. What's the evidences for this? And then in so many cases it just turns out that people just repeat storytelling. It's like, well, I can. Okay, silmarillion. Like silmarillion is a more interesting story than your story. So why would I not believe the silmarillion over what you're saying? Well, it's because of science. Well, the science is empirical investigation. And you're admitting to me that the dominant planetary hypothesis cannot be scientifically verified or proven or tested. So why am I supposed to believe that? We already did the Japanese one. I do think it's interesting. I'm not a huge fan of Graham Hancock because I think it's a lot of his gnostic gibberish. But there were some interesting things that he pointed out in Fingerprint of the Gods, like the, the possibility of things being underneath the ice layers that suggest that they were. That there's vegetation and plants and trees under there, which again would make Sense on. On a flood model. Right? Yeah, there's that because they were. There were living things and they got frozen, so. But I have no way to know if that's true or if that's just Graham Hancock pushing his, you know, gnostic storyline. So who's next? Will, what's up, man? I know you're eager to talk. Go ahead.

[Caller H]

Hey, what's up, Jay?

[Jay Dyer]

Good. What's on your mind? Can you hear me? Yeah. Yeah, dude, I was just gonna say, like, you're speaking truth to power. Well, what could a slight queen bipoc ed ever do about speak truth of power? Yeah, dude. I mean, you're the king of wigs Antium.

[Benjamin]

What can I say?

[Jay Dyer]

Is that all you had, bro? That's good. If that's all. I mean, you're welcome to just. I wanted to say I. I live. Well, not in the city, but near D.C. right. And so I took my wife to the Smithsonian, and for reference, she's from Central America. And it's just funny to see how, like, most cultures, like, outside of the west don't have this, like, evolutionary framework, right? So then, like, he sees, like, the exhibit, and it's like, the process of,

[Caller H]

like, oh, the monkey turns into this monkey, and then it's the human. And then she looks at me.

[Jay Dyer]

She's like, wait, like, are you telling

[Benjamin]

me that the gringos literally think that

[Jay Dyer]

we come from monkeys? And I'm like, yeah, it's like, these white boys. Dude, these white boys is tripping, bro. They're like, where's the 1/5 monkey that was like, a human or whatever? All right, let's watch a little bit more of this and we'll go to another call.

[Narrator (Flood Myth Video)]

World is corrupted by forbidden knowledge. Gifts from the Watchers, fallen angels who descended to Earth and taught secrets never meant for mortals. From their union with human women came the Nephilim giants who ravaged the world, devouring all they could until the flood washed them away. Again and again, the myth blames us for our arrogance, for our cleverness, for crossing a line we were never meant to cross. So the world is cleansed, washed clean of corruption, and one man is told how to begin again. But what he's told to build is extraordinary. In Atrahasis, the ark is a giant coracle, perfectly round. In Gilgamesh, Utnapishtim's ark is described as a massive cube. And in Genesis, Noah's is a long rectangular chest. Three different shapes, three different cultures. And yet each story gives dimensions that result in a vessel with the same usable space. Around 15,000 square cubits. Could that really be coincidence? In 2014, British curator Irving Finkel translated a Babylonian tablet that stunned the world.

[Jay Dyer]

You want to know something really weird, which I don't know what to make sense of? When we were in London for AV9 alternative U9 in 20, maybe 18, when I went over there to speak, Jamie and I went to the. The Giant British. The Giant London Museum. I forget the name of the one that's massive, that you can't even see it one day. It's got like four giant floors. There were multiple kiosks and book. Book sales, things about creationism. That was the last place I would have expected to see a bunch of book sales kiosks in places. It wasn't like cults, you know, like sometimes you go to D.C. and like the Scientologist will set up like a. It wasn't like that. It was like in the museum. And I bought a couple creation books at the. The Giant London Museum, but I'm just like, why are they selling that this here? This is really strange. I don't know what to make of that.

[Narrator (Flood Myth Video)]

Flood account containing precise instructions for building the ark. The wood, the pitch, the exact dimensions. He helped reconstruct it. And it floated. Not a ship exactly, but a survival capsule. Round, buoyant, built not to navigate the waters, but to endure them, to bob, drift and survive the storm. But what comes next might be the strangest part of all. In some traditions, the art carries more than people and animals. In the Hindu tale of Manu, the God Vishnu, disguised as a fish, warns of the coming flood. Manu gathers not only survivors, but seeds of every plant and life form.

[Jay Dyer]

This chick's video was way better than I expected. I have to give her some credit.

[Narrator (Flood Myth Video)]

In the ancient Zoroastrian texts, Yima builds an underground vara to preserve the best seeds of men, beasts and plants before the world is wiped clean. And in some Mesopotamian accounts, the ark carries tablets, records, knowledge, blueprints for rebuilding. Could the ark have been more than just a boat? A vessel not for escape, but for preservation? A vault, a memory capsule of language, knowledge, the very blueprints of a civilization. The ark could have even been a library, a storehouse of wisdom, sealed and hidden from the flood and perhaps even from the gods themselves. Some even wonder, could those seeds have been meant more than grain, a symbolic way of preserving life itself. Memory, DNA, the code of who we are today. We do exactly that. The Svalbard Global Seed Vault, buried deep within a mountain in Norway, is designed to survive any disaster from nuclear war to climate collapse.

[Jay Dyer]

If I recall, this is. Bill Gates has a connection to the Svalbard vault and has, I think he bought like a significant chunk of this, of the, I'm being serious. This, this vault, in case of, quote, you know, cataclysm or whatever that was in ingd's books, like 15 years ago,

[Narrator (Flood Myth Video)]

holds backup copies of the world's crop diversity. Preserving seeds from gene banks across the globe could.

[Jay Dyer]

Oh, I remember that's Indall was speculating that because Bill Gates wanted to introduce the genetically modified seeds, he, he was theorizing that that's why they were really intent on preserving the heirloom seeds in the vault.

[Narrator (Flood Myth Video)]

Ancestors have done the same. 10,000 years ago, every flood myth ends the same way, with a mountain. In the Islamic tradition, the ark comes to rest on Mount Judy, a peak in what is now southeastern Turkey, close to ancient Mesopotamia, where some of the world's earliest civilizations would later rise. In the biblical tradition, the ark settles upon Mount Ararat in eastern Turkey. High in its foothills lies a curious feature. At Durupinar, a boat shaped depression stretches over 500ft in length. Some believe it's the petrified outline of Noah's Ark, fossilized in stone. Others argue it's a natural formation, the result of landslides and erosion. No definitive proof has ever been found, but the idea endures. And 300 miles south lies a place even stranger, a hill that was not just visited after the flood, but perhaps built because of it. Gobekli Tepe, a name that means potbelly hill for thousands of.

[Jay Dyer]

Oh, by the way, I remember Kotel did a whole stream on Gobekli Tepe and he presented some pretty convincing arguments that there's no reason to think that it wasn't built by humans. This is one of those ones that like the, you know, Sucalos and those goobers try to point it had to be aliens because look, there's a rot. It's like, I just have to be aliens, dude.

[Narrator (Flood Myth Video)]

Years it was thought to be just that, a rounded rise on the Anatolian plane. But in 1994, excavations uncovered something astonishing beneath the soil. T shaped stone pillars arranged in vast circular enclosures. Carvings of animals, vultures, lions, snakes, wild boar, and abstract symbols whose meanings are still debated. Carbon dating suggests it was built around 9,600 BC over 11,000 years ago. And yet the engineering is extraordinary.

[Jay Dyer]

20 yeah, but there's nothing about that that suggests that it's not human stones.

[Narrator (Flood Myth Video)]

Perfectly balanced, aligned with astronomical points, art and architecture at a time when humans were still officially, hunter gatherers. Stranger still, the entire site was buried intentionally. A vast megalithic structure deliberately entombed thousands of years ago, and no one knows why. Could it be connected to the Flood? Some think so. The timing is uncanny. 9,600 BC marks the end of the Younger Dryas, and intriguingly, it's the exact date Plato gives for the fall of Atlantis. Some of the animals carved here aren't native to the region, leading some to. Were they symbolic, A memory of animals taken aboard the ark? Others believe they are star charts, constellations encoded in stone.

[Jay Dyer]

Dude, it's like Prometheus, bro. It's the space jockeys, man. That's why they put us here. We're genetic experiments. Dude. Robbery. What's up? Robbery, Yo. Hey.

[John]

I wanted to debate this. I mean, soon as I saw debate, I'm like, I'm here. I say, like, okay, feminism and incel.

[Benjamin]

I'm ready.

[John]

So the pro. I'm ready to debate this.

[Jay Dyer]

Okay, let's go. What do you want to debate?

[John]

You said what?

[Jay Dyer]

Okay, let's go. What do you want to debate?

[John]

Like, the position on incel. Do we. I think incel has been, like, misused a lot. Like, no one has a real definition for it.

[Jay Dyer]

I know what it is.

[John]

Incel is involuntarily celibate, and people misuse the words that, like, kind of talk about, you know, guys that they don't. That, you know, they don't like that aren't, you know, they kind of like.

[Jay Dyer]

Because be tripping.

[John]

They press against, like, women. You know what I'm saying?

[Jay Dyer]

Yeah. Cause be tripping. I know, bro.

[John]

At the same time, hear me out. Hear me out. At the same time, they say, hey, you're an insult. That means you're not getting hoes. And then at the same time, when we, you know, maybe we have some ego about us trying to get hoes, that's bad, too. So can someone reconcile that for me, you know? So which one is it? Well, you want us to not want to get girls? You want us to be a player? Like, which one?

[Jay Dyer]

All right, well, I can't debate you on that, because I pretty much agree that the logic of modernity is two polar opposites. On the one hand, you're told that you're a loser if you don't get hoes, and then if you do get hoes, you're a grapist, because how dare you get hoes. So nothing to debate there, because I agree. Dog, ice and jam. What's up, man? What's on your mind? Boats and hoes. Boats and hoes.

[John]

Hello.

[Jay Dyer]

Hey, what's up?

[Benjamin]

Yeah, so I wanted to ask you a question about bitcoin, if you're up. So that.

[Jay Dyer]

Yeah, it's pretty much any topic. What's on your mind?

[Benjamin]

Okay, one second.

[John]

Where was it?

[Jay Dyer]

Okay, there it is.

[John]

So I wanted to ask, is Bitcoin

[Benjamin]

actually like compatible with orthodox Christian anthropology and it cannot economics or is it just like another. Another like modernist system rooted in libertarian individuals and technically supreme assumptions or such nature.

[Jay Dyer]

I mean, I argue that it's the most ethical money. So I don't know why. I mean, I've never heard a good argument as to why it isn't the best argument I've heard. Neil and I had a good conversation about it and Neil wasn't being hard on this position, but he was like. His argument was that money should in some way be attached to physicality because value needs to be. I mean, he was making a more sophisticated argument than like Peter Schiff's Boomer line of argument that value is only physical. I mean, the only argument I could see is like, okay, maybe in ancient societies God had gold and men had gold because gold was rare and, and there is a physical element to it. But I mean, we have all kinds of things that are valuable to us, like ideas or teachings that are not necessarily physical. So I don't see why value has to be in some way necessarily equated to physicality. Outside of that line of argument, I've never heard any. Anything that's even at all with good arguments to why bitcoin's not good. I've heard them all.

[John]

So.

[Jay Dyer]

So I wanted to say, is Bitcoin the currency that we're going to use

[Benjamin]

in the weeks Antium Empire?

[Jay Dyer]

Absolutely.

[Benjamin]

Amen to that. All right, that's all.

[Jay Dyer]

Appreciate. Yeah. Great questions. Absolutely. Great question. And I was just on one of the guys that converted orthodoxy that runs Bitcoin News. We did a good interview the other day. So check out Bitcoin News. We tried to do a brief 30 minute best case for, for bitcoin, but it's such a tough thing to, to convince people of. Mr. Anderson says for $10. RJ Morrow. That's a good dude. You followed him. You mentioned him on X. You and Jamie were screen sharing his tweets about Laurel Canyon lsd. He posts good content. Yes, and that's why I want to watch the Orange Sunshine documentary that FDA has been touting for so many years because he showed me some evidence connecting some of the guys from the SoCal LSD, Tim Leary scene to Free Tibet, which I'd never seen that connection. So that was fascinating. But I realized I actually was following that guy. I think the RJ Morrow guy was following me and a lot of his posts are like Dave McGowan stuff. So yeah, I think we would jive pretty well. Let me catch up on some of these super chats. There's so many of them here. Kaden says, do you know any commentaries? Oh, we did that last time. Billy says for $5. If the government's gonna fake aliens, why don't they make cool aliens like Rocky from Project Hail Mary? Yeah, that was a pretty good alien movie. I don't usually like those, but I think everybody like that one. Yeah, no, they're not gonna make anything cool. It's. It's all going to be, you know, entities trying to get in your booty hole. So because the aliens are faking Gay Esser Hollywood. Did you do analysis of video wise of Daronovski Aronofsky's Noah movie? No, I did a. I wrote an essay on my website. It's just Cabala dude. It's kabalistic nonsense. Corey says $3 nothing redeemed. Texan $10. Father Moses said in his recent Q and A A he thinks dinosaurs are fake and that the bones actually belong to pre flood creatures and giants. Yeah, that was what I was theorizing the other day on the stream. Like how do we know what these bones the giant bones actually went to if there are in fact giant bones? Well. Emmanuel, $5. The bones tell me nothing based on the bones. Oops. Ephraim, $3. I'm Homer Simpson. When you sold me your house you forgot to mention something. You didn't tell me it was built on into Indian barrel ground. You didn't, you didn't tell me that. Well, that's my recollection. J mail 15. You performed a master class when you were arguing with that racialist guy the other day. Do you think he was a fed? I have no idea. You prove that statistics aren't useful. I don't remember argument. Stats aren't useful by the way. I wasn't arguing that there are no races or that there are no ethnoi. I was arguing that it's difficult if you are a non theist or materialist or biological determinist to tell me why I'm supposed to care about my quote, race or ethnicity. I mean look, if God doesn't exist and there's no, you know, morals or what like obviously every we would Just be like self interested individuals. Why do I give a about anybody else? And so you're all you got a duty to your. Why there's no duties to anybody if there's no. If there's no mortal morals or ethics that are universal. Cacogenius 51 wow. Thank you. It's a big fat super chat. Jay, I respect you. In my opinion, you've been lying on a subject I. It's highly undignified that you say you're bipoc when in fact you are verifiably a tripoc person. Do not forget that you have cholo roots, vato. Yeah, I guess that's true. I call myself bipot but I. I'm actually tripock. I'm Russian KGB. A black EDA and I'm also cholo. So I just got exposed. 40 crush $10. This is a response to the Thursday stream when you guys were talking about data centers with John. They could also be a means to destroy a farm and animals. These drain into rivers and they fill it with toxic filth and then you'll have to eat 3D printed slop. Could be. Could be interesting. Yeah. What if it's actually just an intentional environmental pollutant that forces everybody to. I mean a lot of people are saying hey wait a minute. Bill Gates seems to have an interest in beyond burger fake meat. And then ticks are popping up everywhere without people getting Alpha gal. It's up 2000%. And Lord Voldemort was covering the other day. He was saying that they've admitted that Plum island was a government lab. I mean I've always thought that Aaron and Melissa did a video like 10 years ago on Plum island that was pretty good. Which is where we get. I just went blank. What's the thing you get where you get. You get bit by a tick and you have neurological problems. I just went blank. Somebody in the chat. Help me. What's the. Not Parkinson's but the. Not Alpha Gal. That's the food thing. But what. What's the what? When you get the tick bite from Plum island and you've got. My mind just went blank. Lyme disease. Thank you very much. Yeah, that's Plum Island. Seems like bio warfare experiment. I believe that Casper, what's up dude? Be the friendly ghost.

[John]

Do

[Jay Dyer]

you guys. After I've talked for like how long we've been going four hours. Yeah. My mind starts turning to mush. What's up Casper? I'm you.

[John]

Hey.

[Caller E]

Yeah, I was just going back to your floating belly lint discussion. I used to be like super into science. And I was like an atheist. But what brought me out of that was the realization that all of those theories are based on presuppositions. And like the atheists will argue against that and say, well, God is a precept. But what it comes down to is like I actually reverse engineered all of that from just asking the questions until it gets to a final point where you, you can't go any further. Then there, there has to be some type of ultimate source where everything comes from. And that like led me straight into like where I was like, dude, this is it. Jesus is the answer for sure. And like I actually made a video not long ago, about a couple months

[Benjamin]

ago

[Caller E]

where I, I highlighted a video of this girl talking about the Copernican principle. And that's like what most of the, the other theories are like based on that if that, if we can't prove that, then all of these other things kind of start to fall apart. And she says in the video, we have, we have absolutely no proof that this is, is true. But if it, if it doesn't work, then we have to throw out all these other scientific theories that we base

[Benjamin]

our entire world off of.

[Jay Dyer]

That's so funny to me that, you know, philosophy is all about questioning and questioning the assumptions and like 99 of the scientism, you know, crowd never even thought to do that. It's kind of mind blowing. Ax$10 Jay. I'm a third environment artist. I don't know what that is. I'm making liminal space scenes. Thank you. Thanks to your videos. Check out Simon Stalin Hag's art, okay? It's a damn name right there. That guy said, I want, I don't want a name. I want a name. Simon Stalin Hag. Style and Haag. That dude has an intense face. Oh, interesting. So surrealist. Dystopian, nightmare, dreamscapes. I like it. Does he paint or is this like CGI type or whatever? What is this? This is somebody bringing to life his AI or bringing to life through AI his imagery. Interesting. That's pretty cool. Appreciate that. Do you skid marksman? $10. Why did revelation happen late? Do you mean divine revelation or the book of Revelation? This is a common atheist challenge. People never had opportunity to hear. Well, that's why we have the doctrine of the heroine of Hades. Christ preached the gospel to those in the realm of the dead who had not heard. Oh, I'm sorry, this was. Whose question was this? Yes, good marksman. Did God have a secondary mechanism of salvation? Now this is the preaching of the gospel in Hades. That's what Peter talks about. And Protestants, they have like no conception of that. It's crazy. Mr. Anderson, I remember when I was Protestant, I was like, what does that verse mean? Like, I had no idea what that meant. Mr. Anderson, $5. Man might be a little. Have a little bit of a cold. I keep coughing up stuff. Sorry about that. Mr. Anderson says for $5. I missed it if you said it. But I was talking about RJ Morrow's post about world vision.

[John]

Oh,

[Jay Dyer]

I found a book. There's a conspiracy theorist book on the connection to Mark David Chapman and world vision. And then I remembered that I also have a book on the assassination of John Lennon that I forgot about. And I bet that book talks about it too. But I'd like. But the thing with. I noticed in RJ Morrow's X post, he doesn't show you what book he citing, which is kind of annoying because it's like you've got all these screenshots up, but none of them tell me what book it is. Aurora, $20. Stupid question. As a traditional Catholic inquiring orthodoxy, when do you stop communing at the papal

[John]

church

[Jay Dyer]

once you're a catechumen? Well, yeah, ideally you might want to stop when you're inquiring if you become convinced. But if you're a catechumen. Yeah, you have to stop. I'm married to a traditional man. He is not on board with orthodoxy. Well, that's interesting because usually it's the guys that are more intellectually convinced than the girls. So this is a reverse scenario. But I mean, I would just say be patient and, you know, get him to try to continue to get him to look at the arguments, meditation, neck nimble. What's up? Neck nimble. What's up? I'm you. Supporter here.

[John]

Cradle Orthodox, but raised very secular. Had huge spiritual journey, analyzing, practicing many isms, heresies, new ways of cold come to the church 20 years ago.

[Jay Dyer]

Okay.

[John]

By the way, solo and Greek is colo. Like colonoscopy. You know what I mean? Anyhow, Jay, thank you for everything. You are a modern day Jason with

[Jay Dyer]

a modern day who?

[John]

Jason with the Argonautus. Argonauts.

[Jay Dyer]

Jason Argonauts. That's funny because when I was a kid, that was one of my favorite movies. Thank you. I will assume that's a compliment from the Greek bros. Appreciate that, dog. I want to rewatch that movie too, because I love that movie. Especially when he was fighting the skeletons when I was a kid. Man, I loved that. I would watch that movie over and over and over.

[John]

Yeah. Go back into the history with Mark David Chapman with World Vision.

[Jay Dyer]

Huh?

[John]

He, like, this is so funny. He did relocation for Vietnamese Chinese refugees in Arkansas, which would connect him to

[Jay Dyer]

the, you know, to the World Vision stuff.

[John]

Yeah. And then he also, like, had some thing where he worked in Lebanon. I can't remember. But anybody interested in all that? It's highly suspect that a guy who would turn out to be a serial killer, allegedly, you know, or a assassin. Assassin. He worked with World Vision in Arkansas for relocating Vietnamese refugees, which is a funny thing because for Republicans, particularly after Vietnam, as much as Republicans are, you know, ostensibly against, like, relocating and immigration, there was a political movement for relocating Vietnamese people after Vietnam for. For the. The conservatives. Because they were all anti Communist.

[Jay Dyer]

Yes.

[John]

So a lot of the Vietnamese refugees that were brought into America after Vietnam was like, an anti communist thing that Republicans were all on board with.

[Jay Dyer]

Right. By the way, my buddy that passed away, not my best friend, a different friend of mine that passed away a couple years ago, I believe him, too. He told me the story of driving through a land between the lakes, which I'm convinced is some sort of weird, deep state place, which is not far from the giant Clarksville military, but it's right next to the big Clarksville military base. But people have all these crazy stories about stuff out in the middle of nowhere in lbl. And he was driving out there one day, and back when we were in high school, we used to just kind of drive all those back roads just for fun and something to do. And he swear, he swore up and down that he drove out there and found a little village out in the middle of LBL of like. Of Vietnamese people, like, wearing their, like, you know, little straw hats or whatever. And I think it was. I think it was still the truth. Like, there's all kinds of crazy stuff out in lbl. And I could. Absolutely. Now, there is, by the way, near this, a. An Islamic compound that they set up, by the way, called Islamberg. That was real. I verified it. And so it wouldn't surprise me if there wasn't a village compound of, you know, evangelical or Vietnamese refugees out there as well.

[John]

Yeah. There's one in Southern California called Little Saigon.

[Jay Dyer]

Really?

[John]

And many people were opposed to this at the time, but Father Deacon Ananias can verify this because he grew up in the city of Garden Grove, and they partitioned a part of Garden Grove off so that they could just move all Vietnamese refugees there and call it Little Saigon. And if you've ever seen the cringe movie Gleaming the Cube from 1989, I

[Jay Dyer]

think I have seen it. Yeah.

[Benjamin]

Yeah.

[John]

It's funny because this movie kind of centers around that idea of basically this white family adopts a, you know, Vietnamese refugee kid and then revolves around skateboarding.

[Jay Dyer]

Really.

[John]

But. And Christian Slaters in the movie.

[Caller H]

But.

[John]

But the funny thing is it revolves around that area of Little Saigon. Like, that's the whole point of the movie is it's. It's kind of like propaganda for, like, people to adopt Vietnamese refugees. It's weird.

[Jay Dyer]

Interesting. Yeah, we need it. We need to go back and do some of those 80s Soviet propaganda Hollywood movies that people have forgotten. Like Little Nikita. There's another.

[John]

This is in that time period.

[Jay Dyer]

Yeah. River Phoenix is in another one of those too. Not. There's another one. Ruskis. That's it. That's another one of these. Yeah.

[John]

There was lots of propaganda at that time period where it was like, oh, adopt kids. Or like, let people in from the Soviet Union or Soviet satellites right into the country. Because that was, you know, anti communist.

[Jay Dyer]

Right.

[Benjamin]

So.

[John]

So conservatives and Republicans were actually pro immigration.

[Jay Dyer]

Exactly.

[John]

Countries.

[Jay Dyer]

Yeah. At that time they were. Because it fit the Cold War story. And by the way, look at that. There's young Joaquin back when he was billed as Leaf Phoenix back in the 80s, for whatever reason. I don't remember. I've seen Riskies, but I don't remember the plot and I don't. Maybe River Phoenix isn't in it. It's Joaquin and whoever that dude is. And it's something to do with some, you know, ridiculous, like, Soviet invasion story.

[John]

If you notice those movies all around the time, whether it was like Red

[Jay Dyer]

dawn or even the Red dawn was also.

[John]

Yeah, it's all aimed at the youngsters.

[Jay Dyer]

Exactly. Which is interesting.

[John]

Yeah. So it's all aimed at the young people. It's like, let's get this embedded into the minds of the young people that, you know, you're going to,

[Caller D]

you know,

[John]

be in line with the people from the anti communist factions of these countries or something.

[Jay Dyer]

Oh, wow. The plot of Little Nikita was it's the Americans. So it's a Soviet illegals family, and River Phoenix plays the child of the family and the black dude's the FBI agent who's trying to bust his family. That's pretty crazy. Yeah. We need to go watch some of these 80s Cold War propaganda movies. But to get back to the lbl, like, there's so many crazy stories about lbl. I don't even Know where to start? We are. We did a whole live stream where we talked about some of this stuff. But the vampire, the vampire hotel is in lbl. So for those that don't know, Rod Farrell, who was the vampire killer, famously of the mid-90s, his little coven would meet at the hotel out in the middle of. It's a ruins of a hotel in lbl. Everyone is talking. There's these industries that grow up around the crypto, zoology, silly stuff. And if you drive through the US Bigfoot shit is everywhere now. Right. I believe my theory about lbo Wolfman is that we now have bears in West Tennessee, more so than we used to have. There was a bear in the local news the other day in my town. I don't remember as a kid there ever being bears around here. Maybe there were and I just didn't know. But I think people are seeing bears because for whatever reason they've moved from East Tennessee to West Tennessee. I think that's what the so called wolf man is. But anyway, LBL is its whole other thing. We'll have to do that some other time. I didn't want to finish this Book of Enoch thing here.

[Narrator (Flood Myth Video)]

Example, one pillar, the so called Vulture stone, may depict the sky at the very moment the cataclysm struck. Not just myth, but a memory carved in stone. Could it be that survivors of the cataclysm, those who remembered the flood, came here? Could they have brought with them not just memories, but knowledge, civilization? Could it be the place where the world began again? Gobekli Tepe isn't on a mountain, but it stands high above the plains near the Euphrates in the same region as Mount Judy. Some argue that's close enough to the biblical description.

[Jay Dyer]

We're not going to talk about Judah.

[Narrator (Flood Myth Video)]

After the flood, the Book of Genesis says Noah built an altar to the Lord to sacrifice animals. Could Gobekli Tepe be that altar across the world? Other whispers remain.

[Jay Dyer]

Yeah, all right, this is getting a little super speculative. So let's see.

[Narrator (Flood Myth Video)]

In Bolivia, near Lake Titicaca, Andean legends speak of great floods that came before the sun was born and ancient boats found where only dust remains. And in the Bahariya oasis of Egypt, fossilized fish lie buried in limestone hills, remnants of an ancient sea that vanished long ago. Could these be echoes of the same forgotten story? Not just.

[Jay Dyer]

John did have you seen, by the way, the orange sunshine document? John, are you there? J. R. Are you there? He had to step away. Know it. Kinesis, what's up, man? I'll give you Guys, the girls video here. I'm not familiar with this youtuber but what's up dude?

[Caller H]

Yeah, I had two questions. Let me know if they are relating to the topics. One was just regarding. It's a psychologist by the name of Abraham Masler and he came up with a famous chart MA Hierarchy of needs.

[Jay Dyer]

Yeah, he's part of MK Ultra. I'm familiar.

[John]

Yeah.

[Caller H]

What were your thoughts on the. The pyramid structure itself?

[Jay Dyer]

The what?

[Caller H]

The pyramidical structure itself. The, the hierarchy that he made.

[Jay Dyer]

I mean I think it probably is true. I mean what about it?

[Caller H]

No, I thought it was fascinating simply because it speaks to at least my idea on is that say those in the third world country don't necessarily exceed past the. The social category and then the self esteem and up to the self actualization parties for like the first world countries where they worry about things like individualism.

[Jay Dyer]

Right.

[Caller H]

Being them theirselves.

[Jay Dyer]

Right.

[Caller H]

And I'm wondering on your thoughts on whether that's where the distinction is.

[Jay Dyer]

Where. Because.

[Caller H]

And again there's pros and cons in what I'm saying. But like that's probably where you have ideas of like in the first world

[Jay Dyer]

country

[Caller H]

we as a society tend to focus on how much of ourselves can be the best. And because that idea is passed on to so many people, society sort of goes nowhere and it's just like a cesspool of individual ideas. Whereas like back then in the olden times, say ancient times, ideas like self socialization wasn't necessarily a thing of a concern. And so it was, it was much easier as a society to function where the. When kings and all that stuff were in place. I could be wrong, but just, just your thoughts on.

[Jay Dyer]

On that? I don't know. I mean, yeah, maybe. I mean I think Maslow's hierarchy of needs is interesting. It was again actually all part of MK Ultra. But that doesn't mean that it's false just because it was part of MK Ultra because they're trying to figure out the mind. I don't know a lot when you apply this stuff to civilizations it can get pretty arbitrary and it can be like oh well the only reason that we're individualistic is because of being first world or something. I don't. I don't know that that's necessarily the case. There's probably other factors as to why first world countries are first world and that could be partly genetic, it could be partly religious and ideology. It could be all that together. So I don't know. That's tough questions. Augsburg $7 with the world Coming with the World cup coming up in the usa. Have you looked at FIFA and its role in the United Nations? Yeah, we've. We've done some podcast in the past just kind of in passing or where we really. It was Patrick Henningson that hit me to this, that there is a huge geopolitical element to things like the World cup and the Olympics. Those all play into globalization. There's also a lot of skullduggery and money laundering and espionage stuff that's also part of things like the FIFA. FIFA in the World Cup. I just don't really follow a lot of that because I think sports and soccer are super boring. But they're actually pushing now, he says, for a World League. Yeah, that doesn't surprise me. I mean, Reese Witherspoon had a huge role in putting all this money into Nashville, getting a soccer, an international soccer team. Who the cares about soccer in Nashville? Nobody. But apparently now we're supposed to because absolutely, it's part of globalization. So I would, I would not be surprised if The World cup wasn't 100 part of globalization. I think what they do is they'll study the, the social engineers, the technocrats. They'll study anything that can be. That can appeal across borders. And if they can get Americans into soccer, whereas Americans have been into football. Right. And I mean, football itself is obviously giant propaganda thing, but if they can get Americans into soccer, then they can, you know, have. Oh, well, you know, everybody in the world is into soccer, so it can be a tool for soft power and globalization. 100. But that's what the Olympics always were to begin with too. James, $10. Thank you for all that you and Jamie do. I'm looking forward to your analysis of the back rooms. Well, you saw it. We got. We did a whole hour on that. We did about a hour. An hour on Obsession. So hopefully you guys enjoy those Orthodox and Dollars. Jay, I didn't get you to ask. To get. To ask you my Hollywood question. Do you think that YouTubers who are now making movies and trying to be qualitative about it are a threat to Hollywood? Thank you for your work. Could be. I mean, the thing is though, you know, with Kane, I mean, he did his movie with a 24 and a 24 is, you know, not the most amenable studio to white Christian people. So I'm surprised it wasn't more subversive or woke than it was. But, you know, the old system is going to continue to utilize its money to say, you know, if you really want a full high produced movie, you're going to need our money. But at the same time, I mean all the, the gadgetry and technology to make high quality movies are being decentralized. So it's getting cheaper and cheaper to actually do this obsession costs $700,000 to make and it's already made 800 million. So people are 100xing on these, on these independent movies because they're good versus the marvel slop that they keep pushing out that hopefully people get tired of. But I think if people are a threat, they're just going to keep trying to control it with money. What do you want to say, John?

[John]

Oh, just responding to the gentleman with the, you know, like Maslow's hierarchy, anything that has its grounding in secularism or psychology or psychiatry, it might have some things correct, but it's ultimately not going to come to the conclusions. And like we were talking about earlier with like Uval Harari, that's all the things are grounded in evolutionary theory.

[Jay Dyer]

Exactly, well said. Yeah, it's like if they get things right, it's in spite of the paradigm, not because of the paradigm in my view. So yeah, it looks like Backrooms is a huge hit. I mean it cost 10 million and has already made 120 million globally. So I would expect that, yeah, that's, that's signs that there will be a back rooms too. And then I mean people are pointing out that obsession be Star Wars. So if you've got indie movies that would cost $700,000 to make and it's already made a hundred thousand dollars, I mean 150 million and that beat Grogu, then that's, that's assigned to the studio system and the older system that like. Yeah, people don't give a about at least with their money. They don't give a shit about your propaganda and they are thirsty for actual, you know, quality stuff. But the problem is that the establishment has all the money and they're not stupid. They can just create their own independent things that are establishment covers. And then people think they're going with something independent, but it's just going to be owned. It'll be owned by one of the big conglomerates. So. I think a lot of people, a lot of the people in the culture sphere, they underestimate, you know, like a Matt Walsh. These types of people, they underestimate the opposition. Right. Because they won't admit conspiracies. So for them it's always just this dumb lives, the dumb libs. They're so incompetent. They don't know how to do culture. Go woke go broke. No, they know what they're doing and they don't care about going broke because they could just, they have infinite money printing. They can just start another studio that supposedly is independent, but it's just owned by the establishment. And these naive midwit gatekeeper people like Knowles and Walsh, their never ending denial of the reality of conspiracy. And I don't mean crazy. I mean real conspiracies is why conservatism never does anything. Conservatism always loses ground because everybody just listens to the gatekeeping mouthpieces of controlled opposition. And the establishment marches forward with fake left and fake right. And everybody always believes the retards because they won't. They don't want to go where reality is. Reality is, conspiracies are real. But everybody will keep listening to. I mean, what's the difference between Matt Walsh or Michael Knowles and the boomer mouthpieces of 30 years ago, Tom Brokaw? What? What's the main difference? All these conservative conserving what, classical liberalism? I don't see any difference. Well, but they got a studio and they got fancy suits. Yeah, that's I guess all you need to do. Everybody just have a studio and a fancy suit and then, you know, rake in. Actually Daily Wire has gone bankrupt, so. Good. Guys, you want to support the stream, you can do so through super chats. Super chats done through streamlabs or natively through YouTube. Either way is cool. I'm about spent. So thank you guys for calling in. I'm gonna continue doing the super chats here, but I don't think I have much more energy to get continue taking calls because sure enough we're going to get somebody wanting to debate and I don't have any energy and then I'll get exhausted and frustrated. So thank you guys for calling in. Let's get to these super chats because you guys have been very generous as usual. So we have quite a few to get to. Italian frogman Mother Horse Eyes. He says to check out all of kinds. Okay, I'll check it out. Guys, remember, if you want me to read your super chat, it's got to be a fiver up. Red Beard. $10. I was baptized into Orthodox church today. Thank you, Jay, for helping me understand the faith. You're welcome. Many years to Red Beer. Pray for Red Beard, Dark Sickle. I called in earlier and mentioned Operation Paperclip and Foo fighters. Look up ho 229. Okay. Ho 229. Ah, yes, that does look Just like. This is all simulators. But here's one from. This is from the Tiny Mustache Man Fighters. This is the Tiny Mustache Man Stealth Fighter. And yes, it does suspiciously look like Quite a few UFOs, doesn't it? Great comment there. It's pretty much the US B2 bomber. I guess you're saying it's modeled on this? Interesting. I says for $5, I don't have one Bitcoin. Please don't scold me for this super chat. Yes, according to Ruslan, I'm actually lucky. Literally requiring one full, full bitcoin for any super chats. I will say, however, if you do want to support me through bitcoin, this is my wallet. You can support me right there. And you can also, at the website, by the way, purchase my books with crypto and bitcoin, primarily through bitcoin. I think there's a couple other options, but I will just convert those to bitcoin. You can get us C Hollywood, three signed copies in the shop@jason alice.com. it is linked in the show description. Seraphim, $3. In the movie Obsession, there was an implicit theme about how love actually requires free will. Free will for it to be real. Actually, that's a great point. That was in my notes and I forgot to mention that. Great, great point. This actually explains how God gave us free will, wanting us to actually choose to love him instead of just being forced to do so. Exactly. Great points. Thank you for reminding me what I left out. Potato bear. Excuse me. Potato peeler, $5. Have you analyzed Apocalypse Now? We took copious notes and I think we never did. Would be interesting to do. Yes, it would. Great point. Mr. Anderson. $5. Phil Schneider and Al Bilik. They were the guys mentioned in the Philadelphia. Yes, I've actually read a book on the Philadelphia experiments. Actually, I've read two conspiracy books on that many years ago. It relates to deep underground military bases and time travel. I remember those circuit lecture videos way back. Yes, I did. Actually. I think I did a discussion of this 10 years ago. Now that you mention it, I just forgot about it, mate. 7 $3. Jay, what do you think about swimming pools and water slides as liminal horses spaces? I mean, you know, whoever made pools included that as, you know, their take on liminal spaces. So it makes sense. And by the way, in. In the movie, they did include some pools backspaces. So. Or liminal back rooms. So I think. Yeah, makes sense. So Kane has apparently adopted as part of the official canon. They're actually familiar childhood environments. But they're also realms of the unknown. There's an accident. Liminal horror movie called I'm Thinking of Ending Things. I think I did watch that. Is that the one with the girl who kind of goes crazy? I think I've seen that sort of entity. Let me see if I'm thinking of the right thing. Oh, no. YouTube thinks that. No, dude, I'm just wanting a trailer. Dude. I'm not. I'm not trying to end anything,

[John]

Jake.

[Jay Dyer]

Oh, this a Charlie Kauman movie. This doesn't look like a liminal space. Maybe though. Oh, that. Okay, maybe it is. Yeah. You know what? I don't think I saw this. I remember when this came out. I don't think I've actually seen that. Interesting. The man, the legend. Why are atheists gay? And restarted. They're gaytheus. Tuxedo, $2. Great. Chain of beans. Exactly. Llama fish, $5. Can we pray? Heavenly King Comforter, Spirit of truth. Truth. Since we celebrated the feast. I mean, I don't. There might be some canonical thing that you're not supposed to, but if so, I'm not familiar. Lissan Al Gaib. Try the game Bloodborne. I tried playing it. I got busy and didn't finish. Tuxedo. Boomers can't handle Souls likes Jlon. $10. Bloodborne would be a good game. It has Christian and Lovecraft themes. Yes, I have played. I think I beat like the first few levels and then I just got busy with something and I never got to finish. Was okay. I was enjoying it. Zat $5. How do I prove to Protestants they can't just take their own Eucharist if they believe in the real presence. Well, I mean you have just go to the Church Fathers and point out that what makes it the real presence isn't just your individual faith, it's also the authority to confect the Eucharist. And I mean that's pretty consistent in the Church fathers stream. Tip $5. Please recommend a book or homies from Orthodox view on the fear of man and fear of the Lord. Dude, I don't on the. On that specific topic, I don't know know. I mean most people, you know, St. John Chrysostom's homilies are the most famous orthodox homilies. I don't know specifically though where he just comments on Proverbs 29 or Matthew 10. I mean there's the Katina app which has a lot of patristic commentaries on a lot of texts, but I don't know if it has Proverbs in there. Paul washer sister sauce, $50. Wow, that's a big one. Jay. Thank you for being mean. In those bloodsport debates especially, I became orthodox largely because you were the first Christian that had actual testosterone levels that I listened to. It's not worth it to go through the boy who loves berries and cream. Is it worth it to go through a boy who loves berries and cream phase to grow my hair out? If you're not a live streamer, maybe. I mean, I hated that phase because I look retarded. When I was growing my hair out, it did make for some funny jokes, but it really just depends on how old you are and what your status is in life. Whether you want to have long hair or not. You know what I mean? But the berries and Cream Lord Farquan or whatever his name is, that phase, you know, it's gonna. It's gonna be a few months. Shane Rock Jay Before I was orthodox, I was obsessed with Atlantis. I became orthodox, I stopped. I didn't care about anymore. There's a reason why the pre flood world was actually wiped out. Interesting. It's a kind of forbidden knowledge. Perhaps it shouldn't be revived. Interesting take there, Mr. Ms. RF $5. Do you know why there are Aztec pyramids with seas of mercury under them? No, not heard of that. Just like the tomb of the Emperor Keane. I was not aware of that. Titans actually make sense as a possible explanation for things like laser cut structures or perhaps tech from a zillion years ago. I don't know about a zillion years, but yeah, there could have been, you know, tech that we don't know about back then. I don't know how we would prove it. It's just all kind of, you know, speculation. But maybe. Corrado Soprano, 25 by the way, could you do a quick, quick elaboration of what you meant when you said that mysteries of Eucharist are a good version of things. Theurgy? Well, I just mean that. I mean, some of the church fathers will use that Greek term. They don't mean ritual magic. So outside of the context of ritual magic, I think the correct term would be thaumaturgy. Right. Like St. Gregory the Thaumaturgist. So maybe theurgy is not the best term. You said that years ago. Yeah, that was probably just me using the wrong term to 10 years ago. Corrado, $5. The data center thing seems like a way for us to get to the UN Wildlands Project. Could be. There could be a longer strategy or scheme of getting us to the Wildlands Project. Could Be. Thus we are herded into giant mega cities. Area denial scheme and. Excuse me, an excuse to herd people into the mega studies. Could be. Anthony, $5. Jay, I want to tell you that I say thank you. You help me with my journey to orthodoxy. That's great, dude. I emailed a priest today. I'm starting catechism. One thing I'm battling is addiction. I was sober for three years. How do I overcome this? I mean, for me, I just. I think I quit alcohol cold turkey. I'm trying to remember. I think I pretty much just quit cold turkey. And I think you got to fall in love with something that you like more, right? So if you give yourself to your work, to a hobby that you really like, those are good ways to rechannel your energy. And when you focus on that for long enough, it could be. I mean, it may be rock climbing, it might be kayaking. It might be, you know, activities that require you to be sober for a long amount of time that might help with. Getting past the phases of the temptation of an addiction. And, you know, they usually say that you got to get past, like, three weeks, and then once you get past, like, the third week or whatever, the. The. The addiction temptation starts to die out. But I remember for me, it seemed like cigarettes were harder to quit than alcohol. Like, it wasn't that hard to quit alcohol, but it was also giving me, like, stomach problems, so that made it easier. But I quit smoking cigarettes and pipe tobacco after getting pneumonia twice. So that made it easy to quit. So, I mean, pneumonia is awful, dude. It's filthy. Feel like you're dying, and you actually can die from it. But I would say that you just got to replace it with something that's more engaging and, like, mentally focusing you. That requires sobriety. Right. So a lot of activities that, you know, like, you're not going to be drunk, you know, mountain climbing or whatever. Anthony. No. Yeah, Anthony. You know, he sent the same one twice. Appreciate that. Anonymous. $5. Bring me up on your ex. I have interesting ideas. Okay. Hopefully I did Dostoevsky. Thank you for that. I fear God. $20. Jay, check out the YouTube channel. Scott Sacker. He wrote there's a video called God in Ch in ancient China. It talks about the text that predates religious philosophy. Religion or philosophy in Ch. China. It mentions the. The flood. Yep, we've talked about the. The Chinese flood notes before. I appreciate that. God in ancient China. Oh, man. Is this Professor Yang? We don't want Professor Jang, dude. That guy's a goober. Scott Sacker. Okay. See who Scott Sacker is. Okay, so it is this guy. Hallelujah.

[John]

Hallelujah.

[Benjamin]

Praise.

[Jay Dyer]

Okay, well, I mean, sometimes evangelicals can get some things right, so I'll give it a shot. It's interesting. I fear God. No, that's. When you. Did you point. He points out that it's close to Genesis. Paul. Thank you, Dosievsky. Thank you. Paul says, I just got my hair did. He says he's beating me and looks maxing. I don't think so. Dos G says Ruslan would read a two dollar super chat. Well, this ain't Ruslan, son. We got a Griff Max over here to compete with Ruzz along with Grift Terry 10. That was a joke, by the way. People can't tell jokes. Terry says for $10. Jay, this is a great stream. Look up the movie Kundun. Jamie is going to watch that, or actually has watched that. So. I'm familiar with Kundun. It's based on a book called Prisoners of Shangri La. Yes, I'm familiar. There's a book also called Dark Lord of lhp. I don't know what LHP is. This is a message about the stream you did the other night with Jamie about Tantra. Thank you. What is lhp, though? All right, let's get to the other super chats over here on YouTube. Thank you, guys. Appreciate that. If you want to support the stream, you can do so through super chats at Streamlabs or super chats natively on YouTube. My computer is always getting slow by the end of the night. Let me. I'm. I'm about to turn off some of these. We got too many things open here. It's gonna slow everything. I do have to admit some of these water slides look fun, but they also look painful. They don't make sense. My booty is going to hurt, dude, when I do that slide. Dovski says, I love the emperor, Jay. Thank you. You are blessed in wan, my friend. All right, let's look at you.