Pt 2 - DEBATE! EPSTEIN PT 5, God, Atheism, Islam, Hebrew Roots, Catholicism, Global Elite, Espionage!

Summary

Jay'sAnalysis Podcast Summary

Episode: Pt 2 - DEBATE! EPSTEIN PT 5, God, Atheism, Islam, Hebrew Roots, Catholicism, Global Elite, Espionage!
Host: Jay Dyer
Date: February 8, 2026

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Overview of the Episode's Theme

This wide-ranging episode of Jay'sAnalysis continues Jay Dyer's in-depth investigation into the Jeffrey Epstein files, with particular focus on the mechanics of global elite power structures, their intersections with religious institutions (notably the Vatican and various branches of Christianity), financial and espionage networks, and recent document releases. The episode is conducted in a casual, often humorous, debate/call-in format with listeners, interspersed with rigorous breakdowns of evidence, book citations, and philosophical/theological inquiry.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Epstein & International Finance Networks

• The Vatican, Mossad, and Banking Ties

  • Jay highlights details from Gordon Thomas’s Gideon’s Spies about Mossad’s infiltration attempts at the Vatican.
  • Discussion of financing arrangements between the Rothschilds and papacy, referencing the Jewish Encyclopedia and Rothschild archives.
  • Jay explores the influence of financial powers above governments: “It’s called the bank for International Settlements... it’s admitted when you get into the high-level books.” (08:02)

• Fraud & Shadow Banking

  • Recaps how the Epstein/Bannon interview reveals the mechanics of fiat currency and fractional reserve banking.
  • Epstein as a facilitator and explainer of high finance to people like Larry Summers and Steve Bannon.

2. Epstein, Espionage, & Global Elite Ties

• The Vatican Bank, Blackmail & Power

  • Jay explains (with reference to emails between Epstein and Larry Summers) how the Vatican Bank functions as a sovereign money laundering haven, immune to international transparency rules.
  • Cites Vatican bank scandals as central to Pope Benedict XVI’s resignation.
  • “The Vatican bank is a sovereign country. It is exempt from the transparency rules... this status allows its elite clients to evade any scrutiny.” (14:36)

• Disinformation in the Recent Files

  • Jay dissects misinterpretations and conspiracy theories, e.g., claims that “the FBI says hack of Epstein was carried out from the Vatican,” explaining it's based on misunderstanding of a report about an individual with multiple passports.

• Other Secret Hubs

  • San Marino city-state as an “international money criminal stuff” hub, tying it into the theme of networks using city-states and neutral locations for illicit activities. (30:08)

3. The Nature of Political and Criminal Elites

• Competence vs. Criminality
  • Caller observes elites appear less as super-geniuses and more as “willing to discard ethics... that gives them an edge rather than superior intelligence.” (43:11)
  • Jay: “He just seems to be very adept at organizing, facilitating, networking... but it sounds really high IQ to normies.” (43:11)
  • Discusses the prevalence of lowbrow philosophies and new age beliefs among the elite, mocking Epstein’s pseudo-intellectualism.

4. Epstein Case Details & Motivations

• Why Epstein Was Arrested (twice) and Killed

  • Jay’s analysis: Local investigations (with limited understanding of global operations) compelled by sheer volume of victims.
  • Notes rivalries and betrayals even within the upper echelons of organizations like Mossad and the elite.

• Blackmail as a Tool for Elite Control

  • Callers point to emails referencing “making a derogatory spreadsheet,” suggesting weaponizing information for damaging multiple public figures.

5. Theological & Philosophical Debates

• God, Logic, and Worldviews

  • Jay debates callers on whether logic can be grounded outside of a theistic worldview (“ultimately a Divine Mind, yes” – 51:01).
  • Engages in classic Orthodox apologetics versus atheism, Islam, Catholicism, and Protestant views.

• Catholicism, Orthodoxy, and Church Authority

  • Extended discussions about the coherence of Catholicism post-Vatican II, the nature and necessity of ecumenical councils, the validity of Orthodox approaches to baptism and re-marriage.
  • Jay on the ecumenical council: “They sort of impose their system and say, well, when are you going to have the Roman Catholic model operating... but we don’t have that system.”

• Trinitarian Theology

  • Jay explains the Orthodox doctrine of the Trinity, the roles of essence and hypostasis, and addresses how patristic sources develop these doctrines.

6. Broader Cultural & Religious Commentary

• On Evangelicals and Scandals

  • Discussion of Bethel Church, mega-church industrial complex, “prophets,” and recent scandals paralleling elite criminality.

• Jewish Identity of Jesus

  • Caller query about “Jesus was Jewish?” Jay: “The religion of the Old Testament is proto-Christianity, and that’s Hebrew Judaism... after the split, Rabbinic Judaism becomes kind of its own thing.” (101:17)

• Advice for Seekers

  • Jay offers reading lists for autodidacts and catechumens, with recommendations like Quadrivium, Tragedy and Hope, his own philosophy lectures, and key Orthodox theological texts (see below).

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

Vatican & Elite Banking

• Jay Dyer (05:30):
  “The Rothschilds are the guardians of the papal treasure. So there you see... that’s in the 1800s. So it’s not the 1700s, it is the 1800s. In the Jewish Encyclopedia under the Rothschild entry, right there.”

On Political Elites

• Jay Dyer (13:02):
  “Epstein says, look, politicians are there because they're popular. They're like the popular kids in school. That’s what they’re interested in. They don’t know how this stuff works.”

On Vatican Bank Scandal

• Jay Dyer (14:36):
  “The Vatican bank is a sovereign country. It is exempt from the transparency rules... this status allows its elite clients to evade any scrutiny in their money transfers.”

On Blackmail and Elites

• Jay Dyer (39:01):
  “So it could be an angle too to where certain people didn't like Epstein. Certain people thought it would be good to burn him. So that’s another possibility.”

On the Competency of the Elite

• Caller (43:11):
  “...those elite power circles, it’s just actually their willingness to discard ethics and through blackmail, exploitation, that kind of stuff, that’s what gives them an edge rather than superior intelligence or sophistication.”
• Jay Dyer:
  “Yeah, I don’t get the impression that Epstein is actually a great intellectual... what he does have a very adept understanding of is criminal networks and organizing crime...”

On Logic, Knowledge, and God

• Jay Dyer (51:01):
  “Ultimately, a divine mind, yes [is necessary for logic].”

On Jesus and Judaism

• Jay Dyer (101:17):
  “The religion of the Old Testament is proto Christianity, and that's Hebrew Judaism. After the split between Christianity and rabbinic Judaism, rabbinic Judaism becomes kind of its own thing...”

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Timestamps for Important Segments

| Timestamp | Segment Description | |-----------|--------------------| | 05:03-10:58 | The Vatican, Rothschilds, and international banking conspiracies | | 14:13-18:44 | Vatican Bank, shadow banking, Pope Benedict, and blackmail | | 30:08-33:45 | San Marino as a micro-state criminal hub | | 34:41-39:01 | Epstein's real fate: Arrest, escape, elite betrayal | | 43:11-45:47 | The myth of elite super-intelligence | | 50:02-53:17 | Caller debates: Logic, empiricism, and necessity of God | | 65:03-70:17 | Callers: Tag argument, Christianity, and ecumenical councils | | 74:00-77:10 | Orthodox vs Catholic debates: Contraception, divorce, and canon law | | 77:45-81:31 | Evangelical megachurches/Bethel scandal | | 101:17-106:03 | Jesus and Judaism, reading recommendations for Orthodox catechumens |

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Recommended Reading / Resources from Jay Dyer

• General Education:
  • The Quadrivium (overview of the classical liberal arts)
  • Plato’s Dialogues (Apology, etc.)
• Philosophy/Theology:
  • Jay’s own philosophy course (details in show notes)
  • Byzantine Theology by Meyendorff
  • Orthodox Dogmatic Theology by Pomazansky
  • Mystical Theology by Vladimir Lossky
  • Tragedy and Hope (Carroll Quigley)
  • Whitney Webb’s Volume 2: Epstein and Maxwell
• Church History/Ecumenical Councils:
  • Father John Whiteford and David Erhan talk: "Baptism and the Reception of Converts"
  • Ubi Petras documentaries on contraception/divorce in Orthodoxy

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Tone and Style

• Jay Dyer maintains a mix of irreverence, dry wit, scholarly rigor, and combative directness.
• Interactions with callers often oscillate between Socratic questioning, patient explanation, and occasional mockery—always within an informal, late-night radio vibe.
• Jay leans heavily on referencing books and primary sources, calling out misinformation in the online discourse around Epstein and elite conspiracies.

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Conclusion

This episode is a bracing, comprehensive tour through the labyrinth of global power, financial conspiracy, religious controversy, and philosophical fundamentals. Jay Dyer’s style is both engaging and uncompromising, offering both his loyal audience and skeptical newcomers a wealth of source material, rhetorical challenge, and trenchant commentary on the intersection of money, secrets, and belief. Whether parsing banking arcana or Trinitarian metaphysics, Jay stakes out a position deeply informed by Orthodox tradition and an evidently unflagging suspicion of worldly powers.

Transcript

[Jay Dyer]

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[Jay Dyer]

Obviously to 100% continue on as it's a function area of the octopus. You know, an element that I've highlighted that no one else has highlighted ever that I'm aware of. Now, there could be some people in the tradcast sphere that probably highlighted this that I'm just not remembering. Maybe Michael Hoffman did. But you know, I stumbled across some really interesting information in Gordon Thomas's book which has been vindicated in a lot of these Epstein releases. And that's Gordon Thomas's Gideon Spies book about Mossad. You know, we covered that years ago. I re covered it in the last year many, many times. And pretty much the controversial aspects have been vindicated, particularly connections to Princess Diana. That seems to be there explicitly with Epstein that we as we saw a couple days ago. But the chapter on John Paul ii, I've never. No one else has. I've seen no one else cover this. And he mentions that Mossad wanted, I think, to bug the Vatican. And, and they weren't. I think they were not successful in that. But what they did was really establish closer and closer relationships with John Paul ii, which led to the recognition of the nation state of Israel. And that happened under John Paul ii. And Gordon Thomas's book is essentially detailing how that came about. Who else has talked about this? Now, why is that relevant? Well, it's relevant because that explains the close relationship between John Paul II and Jeffrey Epstein, clear as day. And it also is dealt with in this extensive Book, not the Mossad stuff, but Darcy o' Brien's book, Hidden Pope there with, with the close relationship between John Paul II and the promotion of what's in Nostra aetate and lumen gentium 16. So that is where the Vatican has been for a long time. And you might even consider it older than that given the fact that there were five loans back in the 1800s. Now I remember the first time I noticed this, it was actually at the Jewish Encyclopedia and it said something like, the Rothschilds have been the official paper papal bankers since the 1700s. I think that's what the Jewish Encyclopedia says. If you go to the Rothschild family archives, it says the significant loans began in the 1850s. And that was. I forget which pope that was. Gregory the 1830s, excuse me, Gregory the 16th in the 1830s. Significant loans to the papal, to the papacy in the 1830s, 1833, 1837, 1832. And let's see if we can find that original reference at Jewish Encyclopedia and find out exactly what it says. And I remember, I think I saw this as a trad cat and I was kind of taken aback because I didn't really know what to do with this because, I mean, wouldn't this call into question the papacy going back to the 1700s then? I mean, you could say, well, maybe not. Okay, yeah, maybe not. Maybe there was, you know, some. They were. Maybe the paper soon was in dire straits and they had to resort to a Rothschild loan or something like that. And it wasn't necessarily compromised at this stage. I mean, perhaps, but.

[Caller/Listener]

See.

[Jay Dyer]

Go ahead.

[Caller/Listener]

If they were, if they were in dire straits, would that mean they were getting money for nothing?

[Jay Dyer]

Okay, here we go, people. Here it is. Eight. Okay. This is not the 1700s. Excuse me. It is somewhat curious sequel to attempt the Catholic competitor to the Rothschilds of Predator. The latter are the guardians of the papal treasure. So there you see? And that is in the 1800s. So it's not the 1700s, it is the 1800s. In the Jewish Encyclopedia under the Rothschild entry right there. England was a central long competition with bearings and Rothschilds culminating the failure of bearings. But in this case, the Rothschilds came up to the rescue of the rivals and they presented a universal financial. Prevented a universal financial catastrophe. It is somewhat curious sequel to the attempt to set up a Catholic competitor that at the present time the latter are the guardians of the papal treasure. So I don't know if this is saying at the present time of the 1800s. You could read it that way. Or is it saying the present Time of whenever this entry was written, probably 50, 70 years ago. I don't know the exact publishing, the date of the publication of the Jewish Encyclopedia. But regardless, it is known and admitted that the significant loans began during the papacy of Gregory XVI. The first known loan was 1832 after the Napoleonic Wars. And this was James Meyer the Rothchild and Carl Meyer the Rothel gave a loan of £400,000, equivalent to 4.5 million in 2023. And then guess that, look at this, loans under based in trad. Pius IX, the so so called tradition of Vatican 1. So.

[Caller/Listener]

You remember back in the day too, Jay, when we, we when people used to laugh when you'd say all the banks are like one big conglomerate.

[Jay Dyer]

Yeah. It's called the bank for International Settlements. And like it's admitted when you get into the high level books. Right.

[Caller/Listener]

Well even. You know what's funny is there's a small little paperback from the 60s called the Merchant Bankers. Because you're talking about like the British banks.

[Jay Dyer]

Uhhuh.

[Caller/Listener]

And even in that book they kind of do admit. And the reason that jogged my memory is because when you go into like Jewish encyclopedias, sometimes they say the quiet part out loud, you know.

[Jay Dyer]

Yeah, sure.

[Caller/Listener]

And so, yeah, so sometimes in these, in these hagiographies where they're like, you know, talking good about certain things, they say the quiet part out loud. And in that 60s book in the Merchant Bankers, they basically admit they're like, oh yeah, like each one of the banks bails each other out on a daily basis.

[Jay Dyer]

Yeah. Well remember did you hear, John, what we covered yesterday with the first 25 minutes of the Ban and Epstein interview?

[Caller/Listener]

No, I haven't listened to that yet.

[Jay Dyer]

Oh man. Well guess what he says the first 25 minutes. Can you take a guess?

[Caller/Listener]

He talks about knowing the ins and outs of banking and how it's all.

[Jay Dyer]

Connected and it's fiat fractional reserve banking. And he says they make it up out of thin air. And I understood this and this is why David Rockefeller appointed me to the Trilateral Commission. He says in the first 25 minutes. Isn't that crazy? That's wild. Now guys, remember we covered this last night and that one is now a member stream. But yes, within the first 25 minutes of the Epstein interview with Bannon, Bannon says, and what's funny is that when Bannon's asking these questions, it seems like Bannon doesn't understand it. And that's kind of shocking to me. Not because I, I mean I don't really follow Ban at All but it's like I thought, I would think he would know these kind of conspiracy classics, right? Like you would think people know about fractional reserve banking and loaning out, you know, double the amount that the banks can basically print the double amount of every loan on hand and there's no gold to back it up and on and on and on. And Epstein, much like with Larry Summers in the Vatican bank email is like having to explain these conspiracy concepts to people like Bannon or Larry Summers. Let's not forget the Vatican bank email which why is this the case? Well, remember in the Rothschilds official biography that I have right here, the Morton one, you can see that according to the biographer, the famous Waterloo story, they brag about it, they say, yeah, that's true. We got advanced intelligence on Waterloo and then we were able to short the market, collapse it and buy it up on an engineered panic in one day. There it is right there. That's the official biography of the Ralph Trails by Morton. That's why I put it up here by the way. This got 250,000 impressions. So that one did good.

[Caller/Listener]

And there's another biography too is it's by Amos Elon and it's called Founder and it's about a.m. shell, the first Roth, if you read in there. And once again, it's a, it's a asiography. So it's presenting it in a positive light.

[Jay Dyer]

Yes.

[Caller/Listener]

And it's, it says that support for.

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[Jay Dyer]

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[Caller/Listener]

He became a banker for like one of the dukes in Germany and that he figured out, because the Duke didn't, like, know anything about his money. He didn't even know how much he had. And he would make loans with the Duke's money and then keep all the profits from the. From the interest that he was charging to the Duke's money. And that's how he became richer than the Duke was, through the interest that he was using by loaning out the Duke's money.

[Jay Dyer]

Yeah, well, this was the. A lot of people theorized for a long time that they were, you know, keeping the heads of state kind of in the dark, because heads of state are, you know, usually there's just these degenerates. And what's funny, John, is that's actually what Epstein says at the beginning of this interview to Bannon. Bannon says, so. So are you. Are you saying that the politicians aren't really, really running the countries? And Epstein says, look, politicians are there because they're popular. They're like the popular kids in school. That's what they're interested in. They don't know how this stuff works. He's like, but when you got somebody like me, he's like, I understood high finance and that it's fractional reserve banking. And he says, that was very useful to David Rockefeller. And that's why he, in 1990, appointed me as part of the Trilateral Commission. And Bannon's just still kind of like, what. What do you mean? Like the. And he keeps asking us, like, two or three times. So you're saying. You're saying politicians don't know what's going on. It's like Bannon doesn't even realize that politicians don't know what's going on. But I wanted to remind you guys of the Vatican banks. Go ahead.

[Caller/Listener]

Bandon never read David Rockefeller's memoirs.

[Jay Dyer]

No, he didn't.

[Caller/Listener]

And so you don't know how those guys talk even in their own books that are, like, New York Times bestsellers, where he says, you know, yeah, me and my family are part of a cabal of people who are looking to.

[Jay Dyer]

Yep.

[Caller/Listener]

You know, working against. He says, specifically working against the best interest of the United States. And I. I'm proud of it.

[Jay Dyer]

And note as well that this shows that it's not a. Do you want to be with the wasp, or do you want to be with Israel and the Zionists? For David Rockefeller, it's. He's above that. It's a WASP Zionist alliance. And, by the way, people as well. So it's all of the above. It's the elites working Together. And that's why Rockefeller would recruit and bring him into the power structure. And so it's not like, oh wait a minute, you're saying it's the David Rockefeller and it's not the Israelis. No, it's both. That's what we're saying. Now here is this Vatican bank email and actually I'm glad that somebody community noted this because the email is Jeffrey to Larry Summers. It's not Larry Summers, the Clinton, you know, viper banker that destroyed and looted Russia after the Cold War. It's not Larry Summers explaining this to Epstein. It's Epstein explaining shadow banking to a banker to a public economics so called expert. And he says look, the reason that Benedict XVI stepped down was because of the Vatican Bank. The Vatican bank is a sovereign country. It is exempt from the transparency rules not only of Italy but also of the European Union. This status allows its elite clients to evade any scrutiny in their money transfers. Last May, the Vatican bank president Etor Goti Tedeschi was fired after Italian authorities opened an investigation into a far flung bribery scheme and in which the he was alleged to have been involved. The 47 dossiers including the compromise about internal enemies. So there's here's compromise of his enemies in the Vatican were searched. I remember when all this broke by the way because we were covering and talking about it back at the time they had instruction on how to use this in case something happened to him. Tedeschi intercepted calls further revealed by his concern that he would be assassinated because he knew Vatican bank secrets. By late 2012 he was cooperating with an Italian investigation. But at this point it was the all powerful College of Cardinals. In one of his last acts that Benedict of the papacy appoint the German lawyer Ernst von Freiberg as the president of the bank. This came the came then came the extraordinary resignation of Pope Benedict xvi. Now this is also interesting because a lot of quote conspiracy theorists were also vindicated by this email because people were saying at the time it looks as if the resignation has to do with probably the Vatican bank and PDF blackmail. Right. That was a lot of people saying this in regard to Benedict stepping down. And although this email doesn't mention PDF, it obviously suggests it because you have like the PDF blackmailer extraordinaire here with just Jeff Stein McEfery admitting that the Vatican bank is the world's most secretive bank. Probably as well with the bis. They're both pretty much kind of doing the same thing. Both are.

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[Jay Dyer]

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[Jay Dyer]

Number.Comoss CIA directly connected entities. In the case of the bank for National Settlements. Remember we just covered this a few nights ago. That was set up by McKittrick and Alan Dulles in, in coordination with certain German bankers of the Reichsbank to help be a way to funnel and send money above the Axis ally conflict. So they wanted a bank that was quote neutral, that wouldn't be subject to the investigation of either Allies or Axis powers. And Dulles helped through his law firm and through his time as a banker at the bank of England and other places, Schroeder bank and others, which by the way helped Tiny Mustache man to come to power. They wanted that clearinghouse. And so that's a bank that's above allied or access investigation or purview. And as Burton Hirsch notes in his book, the bankers at that level were above. No, excuse me, it's not Burnhurst. It's the, it's the, it's the new book who, who Financed Hitler? That, that my publisher put out that chapter on the BIS notes that that's an international banking click largely JP Morgan, which JP Morgan is a front for who Rothschild Banking. So that's how we make the connection to that. And we did a whole stream on that the other night. But to get back to the Vatican bank. The Vatican bank is the same apparatus and the alliance made between the OSS and CIA happened explicitly according to multiple Catholic writers and historians. Paul Williams, all the gladio texts that we've covered. It was James Jesus Angleton especially, but also Bill Donovan, who was a trad Cat. And they forged that alliance with the OSS and the CIA and the Vatican bank during the Cold War. And then William Colby, of course, also further solidified that because he was stationed at the Rome desk. This is all by the way, in the documentary on William Colby made by his son. We did a whole live stream on that documentary because it also vindicates this information. So you have William Colby's own son literally making a documentary admitting all this. And then you've got Jeff Stein McCaffrey in the first 30 minutes of the Bannon interview also admitting all this. So you guys, especially all you low tier trad cats and Roman Catholics who keep just incessantly ignoring this and trying to cover up for the papacy and this ridiculous nonsense that Francis hacked Epstein, utter. Probably the, the, the, the biggest of the week isn't the fake AI of Epstein being alive. It's this Roman Catholic profile that's trying to argue that Francis is the hero that saved. Meanwhile, you know, Epstein's over here in multiple emails saying, yes, I will organize meetings with the Pope. Yeah, we'll have meetings, blah blah, blah. I'm gonna go meet with the, the Papacy, I'm gonna hang out with John Paul. And by the way, no, I don't have a problem admitting here you have one of the Greek archons of the ep. Somebody said, haha, no Orthodox. We're in the, in the files. Not true. The very influential archon here is listed. I think he's in the black book. Yeah, I don't know who this person is. John Katsimatidis, Greek billionaire and archon behind Bartholomew. So you want to understand how Bartholomew pushes all the nonsense that he pushes is because these are the people behind Bartholomew. Duh. So it is not true. And by the way, I'm not afraid to say, oh, you won't talk about Orthodox. Well, there you go right there. There's one right there. But you got to understand how ridiculous this is when you actually read the email. Excuse me, it's, it's an FBI informant report. Roman Cathars are coping with the absolute. They're spreading claiming that Francis outed Epstein and quote hacked him. And it's, it's wild to me that no one actually read this email because this totally thing here got 4.2 million impressions, 16,000 likes. Okay, this says nothing like that anywhere. There is no indication at all. In fact, the indication in this FBI informant report is the opposite. The hacker has a Vatican passport. This is Epstein's hacker, not the person who hacked Epstein. E. Epstein's own Alleged personal hacker, you idiots. And this person is giving a confidential informant report to an FBI agent is what this document is. And it says this person's report, informant says epine had a compound in New Mexico. He lured and recorded things there with underage people. He had a private island, allegedly was Putin's wealth manager. Don't know if that's true, but that's, this is just a person saying this to the FBI. So remember this, that's all this is. He provided the service for Robert Mugabe managing his wealth. Epstein had connections to people at mit. Epstein had a mansion in west side New York, friends of Bill Clinton, very close to Trump. This informant is saying, then it goes on to say that this informant was Epstein's personal hacker. Does that say that this person hacked for Pope Francis? That's why I said you're a legit to this guy who posted this. Now maybe this guy's, it looks like he's a Spanish based profile, so he could be in Spain or Portugal and maybe he can't read English because this doesn't say that Epstein was hacked by the Pope's hacker, you idiot. It says this person, this informant is claiming to be Epstein's personal hacker, you idiot. He was an Italian born citizen in Calabria and he was involved in developing zero day exploits for cyber tools for governments and others. He says he was involved in helping the Saudis create a surveillance program. He did a zero day exploit against Hezbollah. Okay, so this is this person's claim about his tech proclivities and abilities. Then he talks about seed money, banking, etc, hacking work he did. And then it says he was friends with old school European hackers. One friend was a hacker named something. And then it's this all blacked out. Says that he was involved in something about with connection to Hezbollah. And then it says money was sent to Switzerland, blah blah blah, zero day exploits. That's a certain kind of a hack, relates to crypto. For example, it goes on to say the Italian government asked Blank for help, presumably this person, but he declined because he felt that the government was incompetent. Calabria was mob controlled area in Italy and did not have much loyalty for his own country. He sold the exploits to the United States and the uk, but he would not go to any Asian, South Asian countries because quote, he was racist. So the FBI agent has taken down this guy's information. He's like, okay, so this guy will not sell to Asian countries because he's racist. And then it says he was also anti Semitic, but he was terrified of going to Russia. But he would not, however, and would never travel there. He lived in Dubai, he lived in Oman. He may be Iranian and have an Israeli passport as well as a Vatican City passport. Now these idiot Roman Catholic profiles sharing this. You cannot make this up. Tried to take that and say, quote, the FBI says hack of Epstein was carried out from the Vatican. Did that say anything like that anywhere at all? Absolutely not. And in fact, it's the exact opposite. This person is Epstein's hacker, allegedly knows Epstein, he says is ratting on Epstein and has an Israeli and Vatican passport. You idiots. Total utter. So that one wins the award for most ridiculous so far. There was something else I was gonna. Oh, by the way, as you guys know, a little side note, I suspect, by the way, that it's not just the Vatican, the bis, There are other places that. That are. That apparently work this way. I didn't even know this until we went there on our pilgrimage. Does anyone know about San Marino? So when we did our Orthodox pilgrimage in 2023, we went to San Marino, which is an independent Italian city state, and this goes back to the Italian Republic days and so forth. And apparently the way this works is that it's a place where most of the population only lives there half of the year. And it's really kind of eerie when you go there because it's up on top of a mountain and there's a lot of Masonic stuff everywhere, literally.

[Podcast Sponsor/Ad Voice]

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[Jay Dyer]

Can I make my site firmer? Can we sleep cooler?

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[Jay Dyer]

It'S the first quote Communist Republic. Let me show you what I'm talking about here. And it's, it's named after this monk who by the way is holding like a hammer and chisel. So it's like a Masonic monk thing. Because he was this. This has a stone Mason connection. And that's how it, it relates to Freemasonry and the Mafia. Somewhere in here, because I remember reading this when we were there that it's. It's the first communist government I think in the world. There's somewhere in here where it says that. First communist socialist constitution. Yes. In 1945, San Marino became the world's first country to democratically elect a communist led government. A coalition of socialists that ruled until 1957. Together with the Committee of Freedom. The coalition was a left wing coalition with the Samaranese Communist Party. Now what's interesting is that this place functions as a international. It's. It has separate laws as a city state from the Italian government. So for example, you can actually buy like guns and crossbows in San Marino, which are illegal in the rest of Italy. But that's nothing compared to the fact that actually San Marino is, I would suspect, a hub of international money, criminal stuff. Precisely because it's one of these independent city states that's not related to the rest of the country. I am. Is Jay homosexual? Yes, I am a homosexual married man. He says hello from Tel Aviv. This man is gay. So that. That's what the Tel Aviv people are having to say here, is that. Yes, anybody talk. Tel Aviv is the gay capital of the world. But I'm a gay dude. Sure, you guys have seen my beautiful wife. But that's all they have. That's all they have. The Roman Catholics and the Tel Avivians together only insult. They have chunch. What's up? Chunch on mute. I don't understand why you would wait all that time and then not talk. Kenzo the Buddha, what's up? Oh, we got the actual enlightened Buddha here with us. Financial crimes mafia groups utilize San Marino as a front for money laundering. Dude, what's up?

[Caller/Listener]

Can you guys hear me okay?

[Jay Dyer]

Yeah. You're really loud. What's up?

[Caller/Listener]

Let me step outside for a second. I've worked on murder cases before. I worked at. I was going to be an attorney. So I'll just bring this kind of to the forefront. Are you guys familiar with Power versus Force, the Hidden Determinants Behind Human Behavior and Anatomy on Consciousness by Dr. David R. Hawkins?

[Jay Dyer]

No.

[Caller/Listener]

Okay, so it's a very powerful book. Basically, as most people know, that have studied quantum physics, that the universe is conscious. So I'll kind of give you an example on how this can be used in multiple ways by everybody listening. So that way they know from their own self the truth of Jeffrey Epstein being alive. I know you guys were reviewing that AI photo.

[Jay Dyer]

Yeah, we're not doing New age today. Jack, what's up?

[Caller/Listener]

Hey, Jay, how's it going?

[Jay Dyer]

What's up?

[Caller/Listener]

One thing I studied. I was a physics major at a college in the United States that did the first X ray in the Western hemisphere. I studied quantum physics for multiple semesters.

[Jay Dyer]

There we go.

[Caller/Listener]

This guy is a total. And I'm sick of hearing this nonsense. One thing I. I kind of wanted to go back to Epstein. And if you don't want to do that, you know, go to somebody else. But my uncle's best friends was one guy named the White Rhino, and the other one was Nicholas Tartaglioni. So if you look up White Rhino and Nick Tartaglioni and FBI, you should see the articles about them. That's how Epstein's cellmate ended up in prison. One thing I will say is that you're totally right about a maximum security prison. There's absolutely no way, from what I've heard from family members, that you would be able to kill yourself. It's comical. And it goes back to, I guess, what was said.

[Jay Dyer]

Well, it's not me. It's Sammy the Bull. It's not me. I don't know anything about supermaxes. Thank God. It's Sammy the Bull from his time at Epstein's supermax.

[Caller/Listener]

And. And those were amazing interviews. And I think you're totally right. I'm Jay. Honestly, the fact that you've been ahead of the curve and been in the ears of people like Sam Hyde and Alex Jones for years, that. And you only have. I mean, you. You've done tremendous work. And I want to thank you.

[Jay Dyer]

Thank you.

[Caller/Listener]

Listen to you for a while. One thing I want to ask you, though, and I don't want to dabble here. I want to get your thoughts on this. So since Epstein was an agent, as you've clearly demonstrated, and there were people above him, why was Epstein finally arrested the first time? Why was he finally. Why was he arrested the second time? Why was he murdered or allowed to escape or was his useful life exhausted? Was it something more sinister? And I guess what I'm wondering if you consider the fact that we got the documents with enough parts unredacted for us to be confused and yelling and angry at people, but there were just enough things that were redacted that we weren't able to prosecute or we weren't able to really put our foot down on people. And I, and I just wanted, I mean, we really can, but it's just not, it's not overt enough. It's quite, it's somewhat oblique and I guess is. Jay, do you think that potentially the intent here is to so distrust and accelerate U.S. fragmentation. And you have Trump, who I think is a buffoon. Maybe people disagree. He's the fall guy. He's the guy that's going to preside over tremendous cataclysm in this country, potentially. Maybe I'm wrong, maybe I'm catastrophizing, but he's the perfect individual that is too stupid to address things on their face and to just incriminate himself and make himself look like an idiot. I mean, he's lost somebody like me that voted for him twice. There's also that email that you covered on your initial stream on this topic that I saw just downloaded X again after several months. I kind of go in and out of this stuff, try to focus on, on things I can control a bit more. But I actually. Anyway, there's the, that email where it talks about drog. And you were like, what the hell does drog mean? And my, my thought was that maybe it means like either derogatory information. So, so it says, let's make a derog spreadsheet on Trump, Prince, Andrew Clinton, William Barr, etc. They go through all these names and it's right after Epstein kills himself and they immediately are compiling a spreadsheet of people they want to associate with him. So I guess my thought is, is I couldn't explain why was he finally arrested? Why was he allowed to be suicided? And then the only thing that I could think of is, is this being used as a tool. Is this being used as something that is going to tarnish the leadership of this country.

[Jay Dyer]

It could be. I think, you know, the early cases I did interview the first journalist to expose and cover Epstein, Nick Bryant. And that interview is still up, fairly recent on my wall. I reshared it. I mean, the reason he got arrested the first time was that there were so many victims and so many people abused by these operations that I think at a certain point, local officials, local people were forced to do something. You know, it was just there were so many victims that it's very difficult to just constantly not do anything. And also sometimes local police, because they don't understand these gigantic international networks very well. I mean, you saw for example, you know, Bannon as a educated journalist, apparently not understanding fractional reserve banking and Epstein's having to explain it to him. So it's like, I think a lot of times perhaps the advantage of good hearted individual, local law enforcement people, that might be a positive because they don't realize how far this stuff goes up. And so they'll actually do some stuff. And then I think the corruption usually ends up being at a very high level. Right. The more, the more it goes up, the more it's corrupt. So that would be my guess as to why you had the original arrests and prosecutions. And, and also too we get, and Lord Voldemort talked about this today, we get the impression too that even amongst some of the Israeli elite there's quite a bit of not liking each other. So. And that doesn't mean that there's not a Mossad angle. Obviously there is, but there might be people within Mossad that don't like Jeffrey Epstein, particularly Ari Bin Minashi seems to not like him. I think there's an email where on Ariana de Rothild speaks like she doesn't really care for Netanyahu. That doesn't make Netanyahu a good guy. It just means that you can have criminals not like each other and try to screw each other over. Right? So there could be an angle too to where certain people didn't like Epstein. Certain people thought it would be good to burn him. So that's another possibility. But. Count eight. What's up? What's up everybody? We got, we have about 1800aminute ago. So this week was pretty, pretty packed. We had consistently 2.5 thousand live all week and 20 to 25,000 live tuned in total. I mean, obviously they get more views afterwards. We're getting up 40, 50,000 views on a lot of the shows. But what's up, man?

[Caller/Listener]

Hey Jay, you hear me?

[Jay Dyer]

Huh?

[Caller/Listener]

Okay, so a lot of us, like, they are not specially versed in geopolitics or economy or that kind of stuff. Especially before seeing this Epstein file release and after watching the Epstein banning interview. I don't know if he was bullshitting or he was talking seriously the whole time, but we had an image of these high profile elites, like those high level, influential personalities as some ultra sophisticated, high iq, I mean high discipline people. But what the saga just shows, in my opinion, is that those elite power circles, it's just actually their willingness to discard ethics and through blackmail, exploitation, that kind of stuff, that's what gives them an edge rather than superior intelligence or sophistication.

[Jay Dyer]

Yeah, I don't get the impression that Epstein is actually a great intellectual. He just seems to be very adept at. At organizing, facilitating, networking, bullshitting, yapping, you know, even this in this Bannon interview. It's a lot of yapping and it's, it's a lot of words and it's a lot of, you know, citing things to sound smart. You know, he starts talking about Leibniz and Leibniz's philosophy, and I don't think he really understands a lot of philosophy, but it sounds, you know, really, really high cute, high iq, high tier to normies. But like you're saying, what he does have a very adept understanding of is criminal networks and organizing. Organizing crime. That's what he is very good at. That he's, that he seems to excel at. And he wouldn't excel at that. I mean, he wouldn't be put into the trilateral commission position according to the first 20 minutes, as he says by David Rockefeller, if he wasn't good at that. What does that tell you about the trilateral. This is high level criminals. High level con men. Exactly. They're professional grifters. But not just like support for this.

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[Caller/Listener]

Dinner time.

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[Jay Dyer]

You know, Instagram influencer grifters, like high level blackmail, you know, almost Blofeld types.

[Caller/Listener]

Also what's striking is also it's not just not specially high iq, it's also the striking like absence of self discipline. I mean, they cannot get themselves to not be pds, let's say. Or they just also they believe in a lot of low tier spiritual stuff.

[Jay Dyer]

Yeah, it's like, it's like new age kabbalistic gibberish is what he says. Yeah, I Mean, Epstein doesn't really sound any different than like a, an Instagram yoga chick. Like, like the, the stuff he says is like the same level of that kind of stuff. So it's not like he's this, you know, savant, like, you know, polymath or something. Like maybe he did. I don't really know how well he knows mathematics. Haven't looked into that. But I can tell you from philosophy that it's, it's a very. Because he wants to play in this interview. Like he's like really deep into philosophy and it's like, it's kind of, it's really just normie level stuff. It's not, I mean, it's like sounds like a sophomore year philosophy student is what, what it sounds like. So. But I mean you can be a kind of a Blofeld and be very good at criminal organization. I would say he's kind of a, he's an evil genius at criminal organization. I don't know about mathematics or anything else, but that's where he did seem to excel. Puny. What's up? Hey, what's up?

[Caller/Listener]

How's it going, Queen? So my question is it's quickly. Essentially you have a background in academia, right? You have plenty of years of studying and having progress with whatever you've been doing in terms of your studies. As somebody like me who is just a, you know, full time worker and then I go home to a family and everything like that kind of cut off tv. I've been reading, you know, that way. I don't speak so good, but I've been trying to just really, you know, expedite, you know, my, my studies and stuff like that. What do you recommend in terms of finding maybe mentors or lectures and, or just study in general since academia is compromised nowadays, that's pretty much it.

[Jay Dyer]

I mean, it really kind of depends on what you find interesting. So it sounds like you're, you're saying your time is limited, so you don't have lot of time necessarily to study five different subjects. If you go to college or if you go to grad school, you're going to be learning. If you do the arts, you're going to study English, you're going to study lit, you're going to study history, you're going to study philosophy. So there's quite a broad spectrum that you would do in the classical education model. So I would say get a book like the Quadrivium. That's a good book. That ties a lot of the disciplines together. It's a little square Book called Quadrivium. That's a good one to have. I would read, you know, basics of philosophy like Plato's Apology, Plato's Dialogues, read some of those to get a feel for philosophy. You could also get my philosophy course, which is in the show description. It's a full 12 lecture kind of master class course, 24 hours plus of lectures, including guest PhDs to come on and discuss the subjects. But we'll go through the whole history of Western philosophy from the pre Socratics all the way up to Nietzsche and postmodernism. So I would say, you know, that kind of stuff is very helpful. Professors lectures are very helpful. You could watch Father D. Conductor Ananias's lectures at Patristic Faith and then for like geopolitical stuff. I mean, I do have a whole series on my channel of writings of the elite and you know, we've gone through probably 50, 60, 70 of those texts over the years, over the last 10 years. I would say be familiar with Tragedy and Hope. That's a great text for understanding geopolitics. You could get my esoteric Hollywood books tying in the geopolitical side to movies. You could get Whitney Webb's book Volume 2 on Epstein and Maxwell. That's a really timely, relevant one right now. So those are good places to start, but really it kind of also depends on your own personal interest. You might not be interested in all of those topics. Milo. And this is not the big. Milo.

[Caller/Listener]

Hey, would you be down for a talk? Question, Quick question.

[Jay Dyer]

Sure.

[Caller/Listener]

So the tax logism goes like this, right? If X is necessary for Y to exist and Y exists, then therefore exits. Exists, right?

[Jay Dyer]

Well, I don't know that it necessarily, necessarily needs to bring in existence. It's just necessary condition. So. Okay, I mean some, some forms of logic remove the existential element or the ontological quantifier. So for example, X is the necessary condition of Y, Y, therefore X. And that doesn't have any ontological weight kind of built into it.

[Caller/Listener]

Okay, perfect. And one of those transcendental categories is logic, right?

[Jay Dyer]

I would say logic is a necessary condition for knowledge. So yes, I would say you'd have to say that. Yeah.

[Caller/Listener]

And seeing some of your debates, I don't know if I got this right, but I kind of understood that the only thing that could make logic, like from your position, the only thing that could make logic possible is God. God's existence. Right.

[Jay Dyer]

Ultimately a divine mind. Yes.

[Caller/Listener]

Okay, so it wouldn't be possible and for example, like in a purely just empirical worldview. Right.

[Jay Dyer]

Well, empiricism has to do with theory of knowledge, but I would say like an atheistic materialist worldview. That's an empiricist focused worldview. Yeah. I don't think they could give a justification for universal abstract invariant categories or things like logic.

[Caller/Listener]

Okay, so here's my question. So you're saying, like, I don't get, like I, I know that it like logic can't be grounded like 100 in a purely empirical view because it would like presuppose that you know everything and you don't know, you know that every single thing doesn't contradict logic in any way. Right, but it doesn't mean that logic is not possible. You know, like, I don't know if you understood what I, what I'm trying to say.

[Jay Dyer]

I'm not, I'm not following you there. Can you, can you clarify that? What do you mean? Sure.

[Caller/Listener]

So from a purely empirical view, it wouldn't be possible to ground logic because that would presuppose you being able to know every single thing and.

[Jay Dyer]

Oh, I see. Yeah. So basically. Right, so basically because, Right, so. So because logic has this universal quality about it for it to work, right? We don't, we can't have a, we can't have a world where, okay, everything on earth is logical, but if you go under the earth, there's no logic down there. Right. So it has to be universal at all times, in all places. And if you're an empiricist, there's no way to justify any universal claim.

[Caller/Listener]

Yeah, so here's my question. Yeah, I know that it can't be grounded or justified, but like, does that mean that it is impossible?

[Jay Dyer]

Say that again.

[Caller/Listener]

So I know that it can't be grounded, but I don't know if it not being able to be grounded, it means therefore that it doesn't exist. Like, maybe it can exist.

[Jay Dyer]

Okay, but the problem is that there's, well, what that would mean. What that would mean is that there's no good reason to believe it. So if you give up grounding or the necessity to give an account for, to justify it, there's no good reason to believe it. So if there's no good reason to believe it, then there's no good reason to believe it, or it's opposite or any other position. So it really undercuts the whole point of saying, well, maybe it just is the case, but we can't know it. Okay, well then it's kind of worthless to bring it up in a debate at that point. I'm not being dick. I'm just saying that's how it goes. Somebody said, Nick says he will do a massive Epstein stream. That's good. I think it'd be good for him to get into the information, call attention to it. People could say, hey, I've been covering it non stop all week in I think we're going on to our 15th or 16th hour of live streaming, the Epstein stuff here tonight. And also too, so, you know, there's been a lot of kerfluffle, to use sweet Candace's terminology, kerfuffle, kerfuffle this week over here on X with all of the. The influencers and face lords and commentators and whatnot. So I want to make it clear that we responded to the, you know, the jokes that, that Nick makes and so forth. I'm gonna respond to jokes. That's fine. But again, I want to say, like, I don't have ill will towards Nick Fuentes. I'm not an enemy of Nick Fuentes. I've always been tried to be friendly and you know, I want to see people flourish. I don't hate Candace. I don't hate any of the people. I want them to do well, but I don't like to see people get, you know, deflected into bad ideas or whatever. So, you know, I appreciate, for example, that when Nick was on with Joel Webbing, he said, you know what, I have to concede that the papacy has gone in the wrong direction when it comes to immigration and some of the stuff at Vatican ii. So I appreciate Nick conceding that. So, you know, that was, that was one of the main critiques that I had. I would say probably, I'm guessing, I don't know. But if Nick gets into the information and he looks at a lot of the information, you know, I hope he comes to this. I think we would come to the same conclusions here. So I reached out to some people and I said, hey, here's the olive branch. I realized that when the clips channels put up the stuff months ago that were old Fuentes debates because somebody super chatted Nick about that old debate, the clips channels put the debate up. Somebody said, are you gonna debate Nick? I said, I will debate Nick. I would like to have another debate. Nick took that as an attack and I can understand why he would feel that way. So I apologize for giving the impression that I was trying to be aggressive or come at Nick. I know what it's like to feel like everybody's kind of at your throat, everybody's trying to fight you and disagree with you. So I apologize for giving the impression that I wanted to be aggressive or something like that. And people then said, well, you're only talking about this because you want to write his coattails and you're jealous. And look, I don't. Nick doesn't have to talk to me. We don't have to have any kind of a. I don't need to ride his coattails or anything like that. I'm not trying to grift on Nick or any of that.

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[Jay Dyer]

I built this business the old fashioned way. Hard work and a whole lot of spreadsheets. Yeah, about that.

[Caller/Listener]

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[Jay Dyer]

Accounting, on one connected platform. No more juggling systems, no more headaches. So it all works together. Exactly.

[Caller/Listener]

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[Jay Dyer]

I don't need any kind of public thing. I wish Nick the best. If he would like to discuss these topics, I'm more than happy to give a friendly explanation of the positions. And, you know, I don't. I don't have any ill will. I want people to become orthodox. I want people to give that a chance. I want people to hear what we have to say, whether it's Candace, whether it's Nick. And again, you know most of the positions. When it comes to the geopolitical stuff that comes out, when it comes to the information as it comes out, most of the time we end up coming to the same conclusions on a lot of things. Maybe not everything, but a lot of things that Nick. Nick comes to. So, you know, when it comes to alignment, we tend to be geopolitically aligned. And when he concedes those points on the Vatican and whatnot, I think that's a strong point. Are we did the stream cut out. Are we still here? Making sure. It looks like might have just refreshed. So I sent out some statements, some to mutual friends because I. I don't actually have any direct Fuentes information. So I don't like. I don't have his contact info or anything like that. So I just told some friends that knew him and I said, hey, reach out. I said it to Tim Gordon as well. I said, look, olive branch, I don't want to fight with Nick Fuentes. I don't dislike Nick Fuentes on any personal level. I did say some things to in DMS that I wish that he hadn't said. But hopefully, you know, he understood that I was explaining my situation as to why certain things in certain outlets I don't talk about like YouTube and so forth. I did undergo quite a bit of de platforming and persecution as well for talking about these subjects. So I think to cast it as if I don't talk about dangerous things and I've never been persecuted. That's not true. So. But he may not be aware of the elements of things that I've gone through. So I haven't made it a big part of what we talk about over here. When he says something about us, I do respond. So I have responded in the last several months to I think five different times that he's brought me up. And look, that's. That's friendly, silly banter. So, you know, if people can make fun of me, I don't see why I can't make a joke back. But I think the merch was a mistake. I think the position on the conspiracy hard stuff is a mistake. However, he may have meant Candace. So I would agree with Nick. I think Nick and I've been on the very same page with Candace and a lot of the stuff that Candace has said I think is getting crazy. And really the only position that I mainly disagree with was the Vatican take in regard to the idea that, well, the Roman Catholic Church is just kind of made some bad political positions. Well, the problem with that is that the political positions reflect Gaudium Espez, which is part of Vatican ii and also Nostra Aetate and Lumen Gentium are Vatican II documents as well. So like the theology and the geopolitics, they actually go together because a lot of people don't realize, like humanism is a geopolitical movement as well. And that's what we see in the David Wim Hof text that we've covered. So. So there's my offering of you know, let's have a. A. Why don't we have a. What if we. Here's what I think could work. And again, I'm not saying this because I'm trying to get attention. I would be happy to have a private conversation that nobody hears. We could have Tim Gordon there as well, other Catholics as well. So, you know, I. I constantly try to explain that, like, I want to see people do well and flourish, and I try to give all the branches, and then usually what I get in response is, you know, pretty rough things back. So that kind of puts me then in a defensive mode again. It's like, well, all right. So every time you try to, you know, offer an olive branch, it seems to get, you know, discarded. So, you know, whatever. Look, I. I don't want to. Like, I. I've had the same message for 10 years. I tell everybody the same thing. So, you know, that's the best I can do, I guess. Dimitri, what's up? I think that it's important for us as orthodox to do. To handle all these situations the most in the most righteous way. And so I don't go after people's private drama. Never done that. I only talk about the issues where I disagree. I'm not going after. I don't talk about Elijah Schaefer's issues and Sarah Stock's issues. We don't do personal drama over it. We stick to the topics and the issues. A lot of people do the drama streams. I've never really done that, so I would think you guys would. The people would appreciate. Respirator. That we only talk about and specifically go against the issues of the areas of disagreement. And I'm spurgy like that. Like, I don't go after people's personal lives. Don't. We don't ever do that. What's up, man?

[Caller/Listener]

Go ahead.

[Jay Dyer]

What's talking about?

[Caller/Listener]

I just have a. I have a question. You know, I'm a big fan of your show, and it's about, what are your thoughts on Donald Trump?

[Jay Dyer]

I mean, I've always had pretty much the same position about any politician. You know, when they. If they ever rarely do something good, then I guess that's great. Most of the time they don't. I mean, I've been post politics for a long time. I never really had huge expectations. So I. I don't know what people are looking for with that. I mean, kind of the same way I view Putin. Like, I don't worship Putin. If Putin does something good, that's great. But trust not in princes and Sons of men, as scripture says. What's up? I mean, we sing that every time in the liturgy, right? Every liturgy is trust not in princes and sons of men. What's up?

[Caller/Listener]

What's up? So I have a question. So regarding tag. So I watch like the videos on tag to Trinity and everything, but I still don't get how that gets you to the Bible and Christianity in specific.

[Jay Dyer]

Okay, but the Bible and Christianity is the only religion that even posits a personal triad. So what. What other. What other Trinity. What other personal triad. Trinity would it get you to?

[Caller/Listener]

Well, it could just be like in deism. Just like a generic.

[Jay Dyer]

Again, it's not. Deism wouldn't work because deism wouldn't ground any of the universal categories. Because deism is a religion where. Or it's a pseudo religion. It's an atheistic position where you don't have any connection to the deity. The deity is not related to this world. So it wouldn't do any of the grounding work. Aiden, what's up? I'm you.

[Caller/Listener]

Aiden, can you hear me?

[Jay Dyer]

Yeah.

[Caller/Listener]

There we go.

[Jay Dyer]

What's up?

[Caller/Listener]

Jay, I got a. I have two questions for you.

[Jay Dyer]

The first one, I'm.

[Caller/Listener]

I'm really curious if you. I think you would say that you at least hope for. I personally believe that America will.

[Jay Dyer]

Will. Will become Orthodox.

[Caller/Listener]

What do you think that looks like? Do you think that this will be.

[Jay Dyer]

You cut out, man. I can't hear you.

[Caller/Listener]

Kind of.

[Jay Dyer]

I mean, we're a long time from that, so I don't know what. I don't know what you mean, but what does that look like? I hope so. J.B. peltier, $5. You're doing a great job. The Internet is spazzing out and this is a hot topic. Thank you. You talking about Epstein? Yeah. Pajama pill, $10. I'm a traditional Catholic. I'm sure you've been asked this many times. What is the straw that broke the camel's back for you as a traditional Catholic? Nick says he will do a super stream on Epstein. Well, there wasn't like one thing. I think for me, you know, it was a long. It was a long journey. It took me a long time to come out of tradcatism because I was. I was really into it. I was wedded to it for most of my 20s. I think the big. The big thing was ultimately probably just if you read, you know, the sixteen papal documents book from tan publishers, and then you compare that to what is obviously not just Vatican ii, but the entire teaching of the papacy and its magisterium since Vatican ii, there's just a mountain of contradictions. And I tried all the different routes for many years to synthesize it. You know, the traditional reading, the reading of the hermeneutic of continuity and on and on and on. And eventually at the end of the day, you just get to the point where you realize, okay, even if I have all this hermeneutic of continuity that tries to make it all work, or I try to become a set of a contest and reconcile the system and like, at the end of the day, the papacy hates you. And once you kind of come to the realization that do the papacy doesn't want you or the trads anywhere near Catholicism, they're ready for you to leave. I was like, okay, I'm done being, you know, a Stockholm syndrome person. Like people that like, don't like you or don't like me. I'm not going to keep sucking up and being like, please like me, please like me. You know, I'd give offers of all a branch and hey, let's, let's not be enemies here. Let's try to talk it out. Let's have a conversation, you know, let's say with Nick or something like that. But I mean, at the end of the day, like, if people just. I'm not going to keep doing that. Like, at a certain point it's like, all right, I've tried all of, you know, everything I can do extended on my side. It's the same way with power structures too. It's like, if the power structure doesn't want you there, like, why are you fighting for people that hate you? It doesn't make any sense. Kim. What's up, Goober gang? $20. Jay, would you debate Jacob Hansen? I think we've asked that guy to call in many times. I don't know if he'll ever call in, but I mean, I don't think we're going to get, I mean, maybe down the road if there's some high pro, high profile podcast to do that or something. He claims that you won't debate him. I, I don't, I don't know where he's getting that. What's up?

[Caller/Listener]

Hey, Jay. So I am, I was born and raised Catholic and I'm have my mind made up. I want to convert to orthodoxy. There are two things that I don't know how to defend, though. When I'm talking about another cat or when I'm talking to other Catholics about orthodoxy and I haven't found any videos that you do on it. The first one is how not all of Orthodoxy agrees on re. Baptism. And then the second one is, I guess, just the issue of, like, how would the Orthodox Church hold an ecumenical council?

[Jay Dyer]

Well, first of all, ecumenical councils aren't even necessary for the church. There was no ecumenical Council for 300 years of the Church. So I mean, those are kind of like re. Those are sort of Roman Catholic categories that they, they sort of impose their system and say, well, when are you going to have the Roman Catholic model operating? And then I'll believe your system. And it's like, well, but we don't have that system, so you have to understand it's a different system. So Father John Whiteford has a talk right here that I would recommend with David Erhan, and it's baptism and the reception of converts. It's a really good video going through that topic. So baptism and the reception of converts. Father John Wyford and David Erhound right there. Okay. And then in regard to ecumenical councils, I would, I mean, we've covered that topic many, many times, but it's oftentimes in these long live streams. So I don't actually think of a. I can't think of a single live stream where it's, where it's necessarily covered as an issue. But I mean, it's, it's, it's not really. The Orthodox Church is functioning like the church functions in the first thousand years. So, for example, there's many situations in the Roman Catholic list of numbering that doesn't make any sense. Like even in the Roman Catholic system, they could say, well, we have at least a way to have ecumenical councils with the papacy. Their system itself doesn't have any coherent way to list or explain ecumenical councils. For example, later in 649, by their reckoning, should be an ecumenical council. And it was supposed to be. It was one of the first councils called by the Pope and not by an emperor. And even Roman Catholics don't list Lateran649 as an ecumenical council. So why would you have the sixth ecumenical council meeting in 686 to decide an issue which supposedly should have been already reconciled in 649 at the first Lateran Council. So, like, that doesn't make any sense in their reckoning. Plus, consider the fact that ecumenical councils from a Roman Catholic perspective, according to Vatican I, are subservient to the papacy. And yet we have at the Council of Constance a unecumenical council above the papacy, because it's the council that decides which pope is the true Pope when there's three rival popes during the Great Western schism. So which one is it? Is the Pope above a council or is he subservient to it? Well, what this shows you is that, well, clearly the papacy then is an evolving doctrinal development position. But that means that if it evolved and developed, then Vatican one is not true because it claims that it was always the case. So over and over and over we see that their expectation for us is something that their system doesn't offer even make sense of. And why would we expect that there has to be ecumenical councils when there is no oikumine or imperium? Furthermore, post 8th Ecumenical Council we have universally accepted in the entire world of Orthodoxy is the ninth council, which is the Palamite synods. So there have been pan Orthodox accepted teachings and councils and dogmas post even eighth council. Jack, what's up?

[Caller/Listener]

Yeah, thanks. Thanks for giving me another shot here. I actually do want to talk about this. I am a. You call me a trad. Cap. I frankly, I just. I come from an atheist family and I. I'm just trying to follow my way to Jesus Christ and that's gone through the Catholic Church. So. You called me a troll one time when. When I called in on a debate several months ago. But I just want to ask you a couple, like pointed. Just, just really one pointed question about this. To Kim's point, when, like you, you see things like contraception, the fact that from what I can see, that's not universally opposed in the Orthodox Church, there are instances in which it is relegated to priests, from what I understand. Correct me.

[Jay Dyer]

Yeah. Have you, have you seen. Have you seen people that. Have you seen Ubi's documentary? Yeah. Did you watch Ubi's documentary on this topic?

[Caller/Listener]

I. I did not. Can you, can you link me to it or.

[Jay Dyer]

Yeah. So ubi.

[Caller/Listener]

Petra, put it in the chat.

[Jay Dyer]

Yeah. We've already covered this 100 times, UBI. Patrick. That's why we did two different videos on this two different document. There's a documentary and a interview with Dr. Bradshaw on this topic. You understand.

[Caller/Listener]

I'm not, I'm not trying to be combative or anything. I'm just genuinely curious if you could give me the spark notes here. But.

[Jay Dyer]

Well, that's why we made this documentary.

[Caller/Listener]

Sounds good. All right.

[Jay Dyer]

What are some. What are some other issues? So it's right here. One of them is. It's called contraception, NFP and Humana vitae. This is one of the videos. And then the other one is I think it's called divorce and remarriage. But it also gets into what you're referring to here. It is divorce and remarriage and the early church fathers. So there's two different ones. Contraception and then divorce and remarriage. Why did the papacy accept the bazillion cannons, Jack?

[Caller/Listener]

Oh, well, listen, I'm not, I'm not super well versed on these things. I'm not going to speak out of turn here. I don't even know what those are. No, I mean you.

[Jay Dyer]

So the cannons of St. Basil. The cannons of St. Basil are the eastern normative canon law. For many centuries. Rome had no problem with the Basilian canons, the Canons of St. Basil. And they allow for certain circumstances, like fornication, for there to be remarriage. And by the way, UBI also shows examples of popes permitting divorce and remarriage in the first thousand years. And so it's just, it becomes a really annoying, just moral wannabe trump card that you guys don't actually have. Will, what's up?

[Caller/Listener]

Hey Jay, what's up?

[Jay Dyer]

What's your question?

[Caller/Listener]

Hey, Jay, I've seriously been enjoying the streams this past week or so, especially the one when Epstein's trying to figure out how to get the kosher pig. The kosher pigs. That one was hilarious.

[Jay Dyer]

That one was a funny one.

[Caller/Listener]

I wanted to know if you have heard or seen any evangelical leaders mentioned in the files or corresponding with Epstein.

[Jay Dyer]

A really good question. I don't know even know if anybody's even thought to, to look at that, but they should. That's a great question. Really good question.

[Caller/Listener]

One, one, one name comes to mind. Jerry Falwell. As a, as a Liberty uni, as a Liberty University student myself, that really does interest me. I know that he was down in Miami a lot. That's where he met his wife's boyfriend. And it just, it would not surprise me, him being in that upper echelon of, of society, interested to know if, if his or any other big names are mentioned. I did have another thing I wanted to mention and it was a caller that called in either earlier this week or later last week. And that one. My question revolves around the forthcoming Bethel scandal that has, has recently popped.

[Jay Dyer]

Yes, I don't like Mike Winger at all. I don't know anything about Mike Winger other than that people are saying that he is covering this well, which I don't even know what this is. He did a five hour live stream.

[Caller/Listener]

Yeah, he's, he's clearly a goober. But you know, Bethel is, is a, is the powerhouse for pumping out the trance like worship songs that a ton of churches around the world use, especially in the U.S. okay. Even if they don't subscribe to the, the charismatic thing.

[Jay Dyer]

Okay, can. Can somebody give me the, the tldr? I. I don't. I'm not going to watch a five hour mic Winger stream. What's the basic idea here?

[Caller/Listener]

Well, as far as I know, it revolves around a profit type guy that.

[Jay Dyer]

It'S already off to a bad start, so.

[Caller/Listener]

I know, right? Yeah, but he was endorsed by Bill Johnson, who I believe knew of his, you know, shenanigans.

[Jay Dyer]

And, and who, and who is, who is Bill Johnson? Help me understand. Who's Bill Johnson? I don't know these names. Who are these people?

[Caller/Listener]

Bill Johnson is like top man at Bethel.

[Jay Dyer]

Okay. And, and is this a mega church or like a mega church that makes music like Hillsong or what exactly is it?

[Caller/Listener]

Oh, oh, Bethel is identical to Hillsong in that they're an international, multi campus, charismatic, crazy cult church. No, but the majority, I mean a ton of evangelical churches of all denominations have to subscribe to be able to play their music in their churches. On top of that, they have like a college of some sort of. You don't get a degree, you get a certificate, and supposedly by the time you graduate, you'll be able to do all of these superhuman feats like praying people back to life. Praying people, you know, to have cancer cured and what have you. But anyway, Bill Johnson has. He. He has supported this prophet type guy who is a sexual deviant under, you know, under the surface.

[Jay Dyer]

But he's a prophet supposedly.

[Caller/Listener]

Yeah, he's. He's a prophet. He's. He was. He was brought around to different conferences that Bethel would put on. He'd come and visit different campuses that Bethel has, you know, like a paid to play type of guy. But he would prophesy over people that were in the crowd, and all his prophecies revolved around was easily accessible information on people that he knew were in the crowd. So he'd go on their Facebooks, he'd go on their Instagrams, he'd scrape up some corny info from that and then use that in his, you know, live prophesying at these events on top of like being a sexual deviant.

[Jay Dyer]

Wow. Well, you know, it's almost always these sort of like so called prophets that it's like, like Joseph Smith, Right. That are just like in some kind of crazy sex cult. So no shocker there, Archer. What's up, man?

[Caller/Listener]

Hey, what's up?

[Jay Dyer]

What's on your mind?

[Caller/Listener]

What's on my line is the Epstein files. I mean, I saw you retweeted a.

[Jay Dyer]

Couple things, and it kind of seems.

[Caller/Listener]

Like you're, I guess, pushing this. I mean, there's a lot of misinformation and, frankly, fake, and I saw you repost a few of them, which doesn't.

[Jay Dyer]

Really feel intellectually rigorous. Okay. I mean, I could have made him. I could have made a mistake. Sure. Which one did I mess up on? Well, there was a few.

[Caller/Listener]

I mean, like. Well, most of the stuff that's going on Twitter is.

[Jay Dyer]

Is this. When it's the screenshots and stuff.

[Caller/Listener]

But, for example, the picture of Jeffrey Epstein has the little girl on his lap, and he's sitting with a Dubin guy.

[Jay Dyer]

Glenn Dubin.

[Caller/Listener]

That's literally his daughter. That's Jeffrey Epstein's goddaughter.

[Jay Dyer]

And then everyone made this insinuation that he's, like, raping this little girl. It's absurd, okay? I don't even think I shared that photo. I may have. I may have. But then there was the other one. Well, first of all, that is still suspect because. What do you mean? Like. Like anybody bringing their children to that guy is immediately suspect. So why would that be disinfo. Even that.

[Caller/Listener]

Okay, well, it's his goddaughter. It's like, he's obviously friends with Glenn Dubin. So Glenn Dubin will bring his daughter around.

[Jay Dyer]

Well, so these people don't know who this person is. And, like, who would bring. Who would bring your children around this guy? Well, yeah, I mean, okay, sure.

[Caller/Listener]

But that doesn't really matter when they're friends.

[Jay Dyer]

You know what I mean?

[Caller/Listener]

Like, that's not something.

[Jay Dyer]

No, it absolutely does matter. In fact, that they're friends makes it even worse. What are you talking about? You're trolling. What?

[Caller/Listener]

What? What do you mean trolling?

[Jay Dyer]

What the.

[Caller/Listener]

This.

[Jay Dyer]

Get out of here, dude. You trash. See, this is. He thinks that's funny to cover up for Epstein. He thinks that's funny. Intellectually rigorous. Yeah. What would you. What would be revealed or happen in the world for your world view to be incorrect? Faradin says for $5. Well done with these emails. You seem to be the one covering it. I mean, I think that anybody's worldview would be undone if there's a fundamental, like, paradigm level contradiction. So. But, I mean, I don't see how that could be, given that. I mean, that's really what we hinge our worldview on. So what's up, hick?

[Caller/Listener]

Hey, can you hear me?

[Jay Dyer]

Huh?

[Caller/Listener]

How you doing? I have a question for you.

[Jay Dyer]

Yeah, that's why I said, yeah, what's up?

[Caller/Listener]

You're right, I'm sorry. So you're aware of the stream that Ben did yesterday about the Kabbalistic roots and Protestantism?

[Jay Dyer]

I have heard Anthony Westgate's take on some of that and I do already separate from. I think Anthony and I did a. I think we did a podcast on that one time too, so I'm familiar. I did not hear their stream, but I know this material somewhat well.

[Caller/Listener]

Gotcha. I just wanted to get your opinion on that because I thought that had a lot of roots with memorialism. Just because I think you, you get.

[Jay Dyer]

Vindicated a lot and a lot of.

[Caller/Listener]

The times people just kind of underestimate your opinion and then, you know, 10, 15 years later down the line, whatever you say just turns out to be true. So I just wanted to see if you had any opinions about those two or.

[Jay Dyer]

Well, I.

[Caller/Listener]

Unrelated.

[Jay Dyer]

Wait, what? To Ben and.

[Caller/Listener]

Yeah, with Gnosticism and memorialism and the Eucharist with Protestantism. Oh, pseudo.

[Jay Dyer]

I don't. I mean there probably is. I mean definitely there's a connection between just the anti sacramental approach of Protestantism and the idea of Gnosticism that it's anti material. It's like anti sacramental. So that's true. But exactly how you trace that lineage, I mean you could argue that like Luther and Calvin had perhaps gnostic influence. I mean Luther was influenced by the Theologia Germanica which has gnostic influence, but Luther still believe in the real president. So it's not exactly gnostic. But also the second generation Lutherans like Johan Andrew were, it appears into Rosicrucianism. So I would say that's the case, but I don't know. So the strict memorialist view is like the Counter Reformation and that's a whole bunch of kind of weirdos. And I don't know, I mean, excuse me, Radical Reformation. I don't know who in the Radical Reformation would be the most influential and influenced by Gnosticism. So probably there is an academic work out there that demonstrates that, but I just don't know off top of my head. A N Schultz. I mean, imagine calling in and like thinking it's funny to defend. Jeff Simon Gaffrey. Like, I just like, that's so weird. What's up man?

[Caller/Listener]

Hey man, what's up? Great stream. I got a question for you about kind of the argument you use to defeat Protestants when it comes to the canon of Scripture. I'm wondering how you integrate that into the Old Testament, because I've been encountering some people who say, well, there wasn't a church. There wasn't a formalized canon or epistemic principle of the church.

[Jay Dyer]

Yeah, but what there was in the Old Testament, we already dealt with this objection in the Dale the Protestant debate. So if you watch me and Dr. Branson debate Dale the Protestant, I think Dale brings up this or some version of this kind of an argument. And Dr. Branson, who really specializes in part in this area with how Second Temple Judaism and earlier functioned, they had normative authorities in the. The Levitical courts. So it wasn't a sola scriptura issue. You didn't just read the scrolls and interpret them for yourselves. In fact, the priests and Levites had the authority to interpret and make judgments on the basis of the law. So this is actually worse for the Protestant to try to go to the Old Testament as a proof of sola scriptura when it's in fact the opposite. Are you there?

[Caller/Listener]

Okay. No, that's good. Yeah, no, that's good.

[Jay Dyer]

Thank you.

[Caller/Listener]

You would say it's kind of like the same kind of principle. There's a normative authority, there's tradition.

[Jay Dyer]

Absolutely. No, in fact, the Orthodox church's synodal model comes out of the Jewish synodal model. That's exactly the argument that we make against Dale the Protestant, because Dale tries to take that route and say, well, hey, Old Testament, it's sola scriptura. They're going by the Bible, the. The text level. Actually, even in the Old Testament, they have the oral law to the. To the law and the testimony. Isaiah says, well, the testimony is the oral tradition. Now, there's bad oral tradition and there's good oral tradition. Both are the case. And Jesus himself in certain places, Paul as well, they cite oral tradition. Right. In the Old Testament. So there's legit oral tradition and there's fake oral tradition, which was attempted to at times replace the word of God that even Jeremiah bitches about. Right. So Jeremiah in certain chapters saying, hey, the scribes and the Pharisees are adding to and corrupting the texts. So good question, though. Good question. True patristic, True. Patricia, you want to unmute?

[Caller/Listener]

Yeah, what's up? Yeah, I have a question on the Trinity.

[Jay Dyer]

Yeah.

[Caller/Listener]

So I have heard many times. And obviously the orthodox doctrine is that the Father is the one God since RK the font. Right. Now, the difficulty I have is when we say the one and the three, meaning the one in the Many.

[Jay Dyer]

Right.

[Caller/Listener]

So you have the one God, which doctrinally we have to say is the Father. However, the divine essence is what we're actually referring to when we say that.

[Jay Dyer]

No, yeah, it's a. Both hand.

[Caller/Listener]

Okay, can you explain the. How it's not a dichotomy, like a false dichotomy or like a contradictory dichotomy there? Because that's confusing me. How can it be full fan for that?

[Jay Dyer]

Because the word God picks out different things. Same same argument we make against Muslims, right? Muslims think that God can only pick out Allah himself or Allah's essence. And then you say, well, but doesn't Allah have 99 names and all these attributes, and doesn't it also pick out the attributes? So you notice that the Muslim, for example, immediately runs into that issue with thinking that God only has a single referent. Well, in scripture and in tradition, God can pick out first and foremost the Person of the Father, but it can also pick out a divine energy or operation. It can pick out a divine hypostasis, and it can pick out the divine essence. And it can also pick out angels, humans and demons. So the word God is used in many different senses.

[Caller/Listener]

That makes sense. Now my question would be. This might be a silly question, but so does the essence proceed from the hypostasis of the Father, or is that a misunderstanding, so to speak? I mean, doesn't have to be strictly so.

[Jay Dyer]

According to the original Nicene Creed, the Son is generated whole and entire from the Father's essence. So that means that everything that the. That the Son has. And Jesus himself says this, right? Everything that I have, he has from the Father. So that would include his hypostasis and his essence. And later Black Rene says that it is the. Even the essence itself is communicated from the Father to the Son.

[Caller/Listener]

Right? And now that being said, the divine essence which is proper to the Father, psychostasis, like ontologically, the Father becomes before the divine essence.

[Jay Dyer]

No, there's no before or after relations. In an eternal generation, the Father is the source. It's a personal hypostatic source. It's not the divine essence that's the source. If it was the divine essence that was the source, then the Trinity would. Would generate, inspirate itself, right? The Spirit would spirate Himself. It's the Father's essence. And that's why we talk about in hypostatized, the essence only exists in the mode of the Persons that have it. So the essence exists in the Person of the Father, and thus the Son is generated of the Father's essence. It's not just he's generated from the divine essence, he's generated from the Father's essence. So that's the way Athanasius constantly argues that against the Aryans.

[Caller/Listener]

Perfect. And my last question would be, because you just mentioned Athanasius, would there be a particular reading from the church fathers that you would recommend on this topic?

[Jay Dyer]

I would get Khalid Anatolios book on Athanasius, because there's a lot of different. I mean, there's a whole volume over here. I mean, you could read the discourse against the Aryans. But Khalid Anatolius's book is really good, kind of collating all of the Athanasius texts into explaining how he conceives of the triad. But great questions. Appreciate that. William, what's up? I have Khalid Anatolius, one of his Athanasius books. I think he's got a few. But there's one that I think specifically is dealing mainly with the generation of the sun. William, what's up? You want to. Want to unmute? All right. Caspar, what's up, man? Caspar, you want to unmute?

[Caller/Listener]

Hey, what's up, man? How you doing?

[Jay Dyer]

Good. What's on your mind?

[Caller/Listener]

Not much. So I was. I was debating an atheist the other day, and they got in. They got stuck on this P5. Modal. Modal logic. And I kept saying it. I don't see how he's making the jump from, you know, if. If God's necessary in some other world, he's unnecessary. I don't. I didn't understand the jump. And I just kept saying, like, that's. That's a non sequitur. It's not really going anywhere. You still can't answer. The deeper. I just wanted to hear what your insight to that would be.

[Jay Dyer]

That would be a good question for fda. And he's not here. You know, he's a lot more studied in the modal logic stuff than I am. So I'm just going to have to plead. I'm not sure exactly, because I don't know exactly what the guy's arguing, but. Chinese script. What's up? I can't read your. Your name. You want to unmute? Okay. Alejandro. What's up, Lady Gaga? What's on your mind, Lady Gaga?

[Caller/Listener]

Hey, Jay. First of all, I just want to tell you thanks to you and Father.

[Jay Dyer]

Josiah.

[Caller/Listener]

Decided to start going to Orthodox church Sunday. About my first Orthodox church. So this Sunday, I'm going to my liturgy.

[Jay Dyer]

Oh, cool.

[Caller/Listener]

Thank you for that.

[Jay Dyer]

But also, you're saying you're going. Did you. It's hard to hear you. Did you. Did you say you're going to Father Josiah's church? Is that what you said? I couldn't hear you.

[Caller/Listener]

No, no, I wish. No, it's just a church. Orthodox church I found nearby.

[Jay Dyer]

Okay, gotcha. Go ahead.

[Caller/Listener]

Yeah, but I wanted to ask you about this movie that I found a while ago. And. And I was just thinking about it, I was like, Jay would probably really like this. It's called the classic animation adventure movie. It's called the Adventures of Marcus Wayne. It's like a playmation movie almost.

[Jay Dyer]

Okay.

[Caller/Listener]

It's really, like, weird. A lot of symbolism. You might like it.

[Jay Dyer]

Okay. Adventures of Mark Twain. Oh, is that that weird one? That's got all. It's kind of gone viral for having, like, weird stuff in it.

[Caller/Listener]

Yeah, it has. It shows Satan. I like the animation stuff, but it's really weird. I was thinking you. You definitely catch some things.

[Jay Dyer]

Okay.

[Caller/Listener]

Yeah.

[Jay Dyer]

All right. Yeah. Okay. Appreciate that. I'll check it out Now. I've. I've got a lot of energy. I'm going to keep going if you guys want to hang around. We got a lot of people in the chat. We still got at least 10 people lined up for questions, but I'm going to have to run to the little girls room and go, TT So I'm going to let y' all listen to a little bit of this interesting spy music, and I will be right back. Don't go anywhere. Here's some spy tunes that fits the mood, I think. Ra. You disgusting, childish people. I was not pooping my pants. I was about to freaking whiz everywhere, dude. Let's get a little more spy music. Going to get this, the vibe. What's up, Guillerme? What's up, Guillerme? Guerme? What's up?

[Caller/Listener]

Hey, what's up, Jay?

[Jay Dyer]

What's on your mind?

[Caller/Listener]

Yeah, I would like to ask you a question. Every once in a while we see this claim, and I want.

[Jay Dyer]

I want to know your thoughts on it.

[Caller/Listener]

When people say Jesus was Jewish or Jesus was Jew, what is the. How do you evaluate it? What is the angle that you think these people are taking when they. When they make the claim and how do you respond to it?

[Jay Dyer]

I mean, if you read the book of Ezra or if you read the book of Zeremiah, Zechariah. Old Testament religion is called Judaism. Jesus says in John 4 to the woman in the well, the salvation is of the Jews. So there's nothing theologically or even remotely incorrect There.

[Caller/Listener]

All right, I appreciate it. Thank you.

[Jay Dyer]

So there's this, you know, this argument goes around where people think that there's no such thing as Judaism. It's kind of a Christian identity, white Wignat argument that goes around. No, the religion of the Old Testament is proto Christianity, and that's Hebrew Judaism. After the split between Christianity and Rabbinic Judaism, Rabbinic Judaism becomes kind of its own thing that we think of as today's Rabbinic Judaism. Okay? And those people are still Jews, but the religion is a different religion than what we would argue is authentic Judaism, which is Christianity. So our interpretation is that it was always only through faith in the Messiah that you were saved. You could never be saved by being just merely a genetic descendant of Abraham. So Galatians 3 is very clear about that. That faith in Christ and baptism is what makes us a member of the Abrahamic covenant. And that's fulfilled now that the Messiah has come. So when we look at texts in the Old Testament, even the Old Testament notes that there were Jews as well as Chaldeans at Mizpah. The Old Testament notes in Ezra that the Jews exist, Nehemiah, the Jews. So these are Old Testament canonical texts. And I don't know why it's not coming up in Zechariah, but there's a reference in Zechariah as well. Here we go. And this. These are predictions of the. Even in the Messianic era, they will grab the sleeve of a Jewish man. Let us go for you. We have heard that God is with you. This is referring to the apostles and their preaching of the gospel. Zechariah 8 is a prophetic. It's predicting the Messianic era. And that's why in John 4, Jesus says, you know not what you speak. Because the Samaritan woman was a schismatic, right? The Samaritan woman thought that the Samaritans were the true religion. They were the schismatics of that time. And Jesus says, you know, not that of which you speak, by the way. Notice there, being a generic monotheist doesn't get you anywhere. So that refutes nostra aetate. The idea that, oh, well, we all believe in God because we all believe in one God. So it's the same God, right? Samaritan woman says, hey, you are prophet. Settle my theological dispute question. Our fathers worshiped here on this mountain in Samaria. But the Jews say, you have to do it in Jerusalem. What's the right place? Jesus says, the day is coming when it will be global, right? Everybody everywhere will Worship not related to specifically a single location. It will be a global worship, he says, but you do not know what you worship for salvation is of the Jews. And that is factually, historically, biblically correct. Shouldn't even really be an issue. David, what's up? David, what's up, man?

[Caller/Listener]

Hey, what's up, J? I have. I'm an Orthodox catechism, and I just have a question about what books would you recommend that you would have liked to have? I guess in your hindsight knowledge, like, what would you have liked to have read? Because I have a bunch, but some of them are like St. Seraphim's books. They're really complex and I need to start something smaller. What would you suggest?

[Jay Dyer]

I mean, I would. I would. Looking back, I would say I would have. It would have been good to have read the entire Pomazonski book, Orthodox Dogmatic starting out. It would have been good to have read Byzantine Theology by Meyendorf. It would have been good to read Christ in the Christological controversy, St. Cyril of Alexander, chrysological controversy by McGuckin. And I'm just telling you, the books that I kind of staggered over many years, but if I'd read them kind of early on, I would have been able to avoid, I think, a lot of questions and issues and disputes and. And things later on the Orthodox Faith by John Damascus, five theological orations by St. Gregor Nazianzus. And then when you get beyond that one, read all the orations because they're actually all really important. But the five is a good place to start on the Incarnation by Saint Athanasius. Those are all absolutely kind of essential, necessary reads. Mystical Theology by Loski. So I would do all those Haber Moss. What's up, Habermas? What's up? We got actual Frankfurt School djens in the chat. What's up, man?

[Caller/Listener]

Oh, hey, man. Hope you're doing well. Nice to meet you. I was curious to know if you were familiar with Stanley Monteith, if you ever collaborated with him or have looked into his work.