Pt 2 - EVANGELICAL CRASHOUT! E-vangelicals Vs One True Church

Summary

Podcast Summary: Jay'sAnalysis – Pt 2 – EVANGELICAL CRASHOUT! E-vangelicals Vs One True Church

Date: May 12, 2026
Host: Jay Dyer
Episode Theme:
A critical exploration of modern evangelicalism’s collapse, how Protestant/Evangelical churches have deviated from historic Christian doctrine and liturgy, and why many seekers are considering Orthodoxy as the “one true church.” Jay Dyer hosts a marathon call-in Q&A, challenges apologists from the evangelical and Protestant world, and analyzes the rise – and crash – of business-model Christianity.

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Main Theme Overview

Jay Dyer investigates why evangelicalism and Protestant approaches to Christianity are failing, emphasizing their departure from early Church teaching and tradition. Through audience Q&A, patristic references, satirical commentary, and a look at megachurch trends, Dyer contrasts the Orthodox faith with modern church models. The episode not only critiques the theological and liturgical shortcomings of contemporary Protestantism but also explores its market-driven decline.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Patristic Foundations vs. Protestant Novelty

• Jay Dyer reads from St. Cyril of Alexandria’s letters, focusing on arguments against Nestorius and for the Eucharist as essential to right doctrine ([01:00]).
  • "Deification and the Eucharist refute Nestorius." (Jay Dyer, 01:42)
• Emphasizes the necessity of right doctrine (orthodoxy) as more important than mere profession of belief or interpersonal relationships.
• Liturgical arguments are core to patristic Christianity. Jay contrasts this with the Protestant absence of liturgical theology.
  • Notable Quote:
    "The faith is not 'I believe in Jesus.' ...The faith is the faith once for all delivered to the saints." (Jay Dyer, 09:22)

2. Problems with Sola Scriptura & The Papacy

• Caller asks if distinguishing between East (Orthodox) and West (Catholic) should focus first on issues like the filioque and papal claims ([10:23]).
• Jay recommends:
  • Resource: 'Ecumenical Canons Refute the Papacy' (collection of canons from Seven Ecumenical Councils)
  • Highlights changing Roman Catholic doctrine (papacy, death penalty, religious liberty, ecumenism).
  • Book recommendations:
    • 'Two Paths' by Michael Welton (introductory)
    • Sashinsky’s 'Orthodoxy and the Papacy' (advanced)

3. Orthodox Apologetics vs. Business Church Model

• Calls out the absence of Protestant/Evangelical apologists willing to debate the points.
• Several inquirers share journeys from evangelical backgrounds into Orthodoxy, citing the attractiveness of icons, miraculous stories, and fidelity to the historic creed ([13:23]–[15:06]).
• Orthodox exclusivity in sacramental life (“baptismal regeneration”) and continuity with the ancient church are stressed as non-negotiable.

4. Church Authority, Canons, and Innovations

• Jay elaborates on why Orthodox are forbidden to commune with heretics/schismatics, referencing ancient canons and the modern degeneration of Roman Catholic liturgical practice ([20:22]).
• Modern Catholic worship characterized as "Novus Ordo Gay Clown Mass," far removed from ancient liturgy.
• Authority does not require infallibility; Protestant inability to grasp this is critiqued.

5. Collapse of Evangelical/Neo-Con Outlets

• Critiques Daily Wire, Ben Shapiro, and the funding origins of Evangelical Zionism in US media ([26:06]).
• Satirizes the content and approach of figures like Ben Shapiro as uninspired, repetitive, and ultimately disconnected from meaningful discourse.

6. Finding an Orthodox Community & Modern Obstacles

• Callers share struggles finding Orthodox parishes uncompromised by ecumenism or questionable associations (e.g., events at Masonic lodges, pro-masonry concerns) ([29:47]).

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Highlighted Segments & Notable Quotes

Patristic Arguments & The Eucharist

• [01:00–10:23] — Jay’s reading and analysis of St. Cyril’s arguments:
  • "...if Jesus was not the deified Son of God, then you're eating the flesh of some man, which would be cannibalism..." (Jay Dyer)

Why Protestants Can't Defend Their Position

• [16:30–20:22] — On the inability of Protestants to give historic, patristic arguments and the evolution of church authority.

Business Church & Megachurch Critique

• [86:22–151:37] — Jay plays selections about Rick Warren, Purpose Driven Life, and the collapse of seeker-sensitive megachurches, highlighting:
  • The adoption of corporate, marketing-driven strategies in American Christianity.
  • Fads like “40 Days of Purpose” that led to explosive—but shallow—church growth and subsequent implosion.
  • The loss of theological depth, historic liturgy, and doctrinal seriousness.
  • “No demands, no expectations, no cost. Just come, enjoy the show and leave when something better comes along.”
• Notable Quotes:
  • "The purpose-driven model treated church growth like market expansion... But churches aren't corporations. They're communities." (Documentary Narrative, 150:50)
  • "The Orthodox Church has a masculine, non-compromising, patristic approach... contrast that to effeminate, seeker-sensitive, business church.” (Jay Dyer, paraphrase from various points)

Ortho Bro vs. Ecumenist Drama

• [47:11–55:00+] — Jay and callers lampoon the attacks by evangelical YouTubers and the passive-aggressive, "mean girls" tactics employed online.
  • "These people—they're giant vaginas, dude... The ecumenical, evangelical, anti-Islam grift crowd are the exact mirror of the e-girl grift crowd." (Jay Dyer, 48:26)

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Practical & Theological Advice

On Engaging Family & Friends

• [68:47–74:55] — Never debate your parents; real conversion comes by your changed life and patience, not logical argumentation.
  • "Don’t pre-suppose grandma." (Jay Dyer)

On Identifying True Church

• [144:52] — "Show me one churchless apologist in the first thousand years... Where is a churchless apologist? Name one." (Jay Dyer's core challenge to Protestant apologists)

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Book Recommendations from the Episode

• Life in Christ by St. Nicholas Cabasilas (on sacraments and Orthodoxy)
• Two Paths by Michael Welton (Orthodoxy vs. Papacy)
• Orthodoxy and the Papacy by Sashinsky
• Orthodoxy and the Religion of the Future by Fr. Seraphim Rose
• Volume 1 & 2 of Pelikan’s set (on the history of Christianity)
• Ecumenical Canons Refute the Papacy (compiled canons)

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Other Memorable Moments

• Satirical songs and inside-joke skits about evangelical grift and cultural trends.
• Numerous quips about physiognomy as a debate litmus test.
• Ongoing banter about online “passive-aggressive soy” evangelical apologists and their refusal to debate Jay.

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• [01:00–10:23]: Patristic arguments on Eucharist and Orthodox distinctives
• [13:23–15:06]: Evangelical inquirer testimonies
• [20:22–26:09]: Why Orthodox don't commune with other Christian groups
• [26:06–28:44]: Daily Wire, neocon collapse, and Evangelical Zionism
• [29:47–31:18]: Finding Orthodox communities, ecumenism concerns
• [86:22–151:37]: Documentary breakdown—Purpose-Driven Church and megachurch implosion
• [144:52]: Jay’s “Churchless apologist” challenge

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Tone and Language

The episode features:

• Sharp, biting satire
• Frequent in-jokes and meme culture references
• Direct challenges to Evangelical and Catholic callers with patristic & canonical rigor
• A culture-war, combative spirit, but with openness to honest (even critical) inquirers

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Conclusion

Jay Dyer’s episode offers a high-energy, no-holds-barred critique of evangelicalism’s “business church” degeneration and challenges Protestant listeners to engage honestly with the historical record of the Church. Through patristic texts, contemporary church case studies, and a lively call-in format, he makes a robust case for the urgency and authenticity of Orthodoxy against both Protestant reductionism and Roman Catholic innovations.

Essential takeaway:
The collapse of modern “megachurchianity” reveals the empty promises of seeker-sensitive, entrepreneurial Christianity. Only the apostolic, sacramental, and communal model of the Orthodox Church stands as the New Testament and fathers intended.

Transcript

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[Jay Dyer]

Once again, Orthodox 2007, but in the 2000s, we would have this argument. And this alone actually has converted a lot of people, and it's part of Ephesus. Yeah, but we want to see the entire letter of Cyril to Nestorius, and we want to see the line of argumentation that he has. All right, I can't read that script. Let's find a. See if we can find a good copy. Okay, here we go. Maybe this will work. So the anathemas are attached at the end. And let me see if this has the full quote that I'm looking for here. Because people don't realize that one of Cyril's biggest arguments is the Eucharist and against Nestorius. He's going to argue that deification and the Eucharist refutes Nestorius. I hate these screens. I don't think this is the full letter. This seems truncated. Let's see. Is it? Well, maybe it's the wrong numbered letter. Let's see. It's always a challenge, dude, to try to. To find the freaking shaft version and list with what people have on their websites. This is. This is a nightmare. It always happens. I think this is the first epistle. Let's see. By the way, Cyril argues at the beginning that the faith comes before human interpersonal relations. So I hope we can find this. Let's see. It's when he says, when our Savior says, let's see if this is it. Oh, I think this is it. Okay, so this should be. I keep having to switch glasses because I hate this freaking glare of the screen in my face. All right. Following the declaration of the Holy Fathers. This is. Yeah, this is it. Okay. So notice here, he says, the Holy Synod in Rome, in great Rome with Pope Celestine. And he argues that the faith is more important than interpersonal relations. The right faith rejected and the flocks torn into pieces by thee, we ought to preserve them. If thou wert a lover of right doctrine, tracking the piety of the Holy Fathers and all who have been by thy piety severed for thy faith's sake, both lay and cleric. So he's saying that together with Pope Celestine, they reject and anathematize Nestorius. And he's going to talk about the line of argumentation to prove that. And he's going to say that we feed on the flesh of the God man. And how could we feed on the flesh of the God man if Nestorius's dual subject Christology was true and he was just some dude. He says this is the faith of the Catholic Apostolic Church, and it anathematizes anyone who would say otherwise. I think it's right here. He assumed flesh and blood from the womb of the Virgin Mary, God by nature and in truth. Neither do we say the flesh was turned into the nature of the Godhead, nor that the ineffable nature of God the Word was born. Aside from the nature of flesh, it is unchangeable and invariant. So the divine essence is impassible. And he says, and thus as a babe in swaddling clothes, yet in the lap of the Virgin, the Virgin bare him. He was filling creation as God while he was in the lap of the Virgin, he says. Then he goes on to say, here. It's hard to tell where this argument actually starts. We will necessarily add this also. This is it right here. Here's the main point, he says, declaring the death in the flesh of the only begotten Son of God, that is Christ, confessing that he lives again from the dead. We celebrate the unbloody service. Some translations say sacrifice. This is the Eucharist. And thus we approach the mystical blessings. They are sanctified and we are rendered partakers of his holy flesh and blood, not as though receiving the flesh, God forbid, of some man connected with the Word by a unity of dignity. That's the Nestorian position, or as a divine indwelling, but as truly quickening deification, the flesh of the Word himself. For by being by nature God, since he became one with his own flesh, he rendered the flesh to be life giving. That's the uncreated energies. That's the real presence. And by the way, elsewhere he argues for the energies explicitly. Verily I say unto you, except you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you will not have life. Thus truly he has become our flesh and is called Son of Man. In other words, he's saying, if Jesus was not the df, the flesh of Christ is not the deified flesh of the Son of God, then you're eating the flesh of some man, which would be cannibalism and which could not save you. So deification proves, according to St. Cyril, that Christ is a divine hypothesis of the sole subject of all the incarnate actions. And then he makes these same arguments in the Anathemas from the Eucharist, where he says that consuming some man wouldn't save us, but consuming the flesh of the God man would save us. And thus he says the eucharist refutes Nestorius. Anathema12 says, if anyone does not confess that God the Word suffered in the flesh and has been crucified under the flesh taste of death, the flesh has been made firstborn of the dead. Inasmuch as he is life and life giving, let him be anathema. That's in the context of the Eucharist, what he calls the sacrifice. So his flesh is life giving flesh. So here you can read the letters for yourself. And there's more in there. It's just hard to find it from the shaft version to the online version. But there's the letter with the anathemas and you'll see that oh, that's not Protestant at all. Cyril's actually making liturgical arguments against Nestorius. You ever heard of Protestant making a liturgical argument against anybody? How does that not right there show you that Protestants do not have the faith? I'm not saying they're not sincere. It's not a question of you can be sincerely wrong. The question is, do they have the faith? The faith is not I believe in Jesus. That's not the faith. You have that belief in your head. But the faith is the faith once for all, delivered to the saints. The faith confessed that Nicaea, Constantinople 1, Ephesus, Chalcedon, Constantinople 2, Constantinople 3. Trollo and Nice to you too. And Palmite signs. So, G, what's up, dude?

[Caller/Inquirer]

Yo, Jay, you know that Israel fell into error, right? I'm just joking. I'm totally joking. No, a genuine question here for, For. For someone who has landed at. At the position that Protestantism is not the faith. Kind of like you just said, or soul Scriptura just has no Grounds. But is is is not clear on like east or west. For, for example, would you say getting clear on the filial queen and the papacy should be like, primary as next steps or, like, what would you say to that?

[Jay Dyer]

Yeah, I think the easiest route, if you wanted a quick route, would be to go to my website and read the ecumenical canons refute the papacy. That's a collection that I think a guy's a deacon now might become, becoming a priest. That Seraphim in our discord created that back in 2018. And he basically just listed all the cannons from the seven councils as an example that disproves the Vatican one arguments for the Roman Catholic version of the papacy. So that's the quickest route that I could say to see that in all of these centuries. And all these councils, they don't have the attitude of Vatican I. And so therefore the Vatican I arguments for the papacy are obviously out of accord with the seven ecumenical councils idea of the papacy. Beyond that, I would say I've got several videos on kill shot contradictions that prove that the papacy changes its dogma. There is the temple supremacy, temporal supremacy argument. That's changed. There's the death penalty argument.

[Caller/Inquirer]

That's changed.

[Jay Dyer]

There's a religious liberty that's changed. Ecumenism doctrine has changed. These are all easy kill shots to prove that the papacy has contradicted itself openly, dogmatically, many, many times. So go check those out. And also, if you want a book, you could start with something like Two Paths by Michael Welton. That's a good readable introduction to the topic. And then if you want more advanced, get Sashinsky's book, Orthodoxy and the Papacy.

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[Jay Dyer]

I can't believe we still haven't gotten one single Protestant evangelical to call in. Ethan. What's up, dude? Ethan, you owe me a Gucci suit. Ethan,

[Caller/Inquirer]

I appreciate it. No. Good to meet you, Jay. I was just gonna call in and ask for a second. So I'm an inquirer. I'm going to an Orthodox parish now for about four months. No trouble with icons. I think icons are fine. I think the cool thing that icons have that in the Orthodox that they have is there's ones that it sounds like work miracles. Like, I think there's a parish in Northeast Pennsylvania that has a myrrh bearing icon. I can't remember the name of the

[Jay Dyer]

parish, but

[Caller/Inquirer]

that is something that evangelicals do not have. And then the other thing I was going to say was, last thing was, when I look at the creed, it says one holy Catholic apostolic church and baptismal forgiveness. Like, forgiveness of sins. And so when I talk to Protestant friends, I don't think they agree with that.

[Jay Dyer]

No, of course they don't. The only. The only Protestants that believe in bachelor and regeneration are some of the Lutherans, which, again, I don't know how that makes any sense. But you can see here clearly when the creed says one holy Catholic Apostolic Church, they mean baptismal regeneration. And everybody knows that. And it doesn't matter how many times Redeem Zuma or any of these people try to re formulate it, restate it. Everybody knows the Cappadocians are teaching baptismal regeneration. Requiem, Requiem. What's up, dude?

[Documentary Narrator]

Okay. Hello.

[Caller/Inquirer]

Hey, what's up, Jay? My issue with Orthodoxy is the priests. They have the beards. I think they need to have the Doug Wilson goatee. I think that will be, like, more manly.

[Jay Dyer]

Oh, my gosh. Oh, my gosh. So dude's literally out here trying to argue for the Gen X church. If you don't have a Gen X goatee, then you aren't authentically apostolic. Right? Because we all know. And by the way, you notice in my. My fat dude who I gave, I said, this is Saint Dunning Krueger, the patron saint of evangelical eologists. Notice he's got the Boomer goatee. I mean, the Gen X goatee. The only thing I would change on this, I should have given him a, like, a professional sports jersey cap. Or I should have made the Godly ambition T shirt. The Ruslan T shirt. It should have been a jersey. That's the thing I should have added. Right? It should Be a jersey. And he should have a. I don't know, star at David in the background or something. Drizzy, what's up?

[Caller/Inquirer]

Hey, what's going on, Jay?

[Jay Dyer]

What's on your mind?

[Caller/Inquirer]

Sorry, say that again.

[Jay Dyer]

I said, what's on your mind, man?

[Caller/Inquirer]

Oh, what's going on? I really like your content. Been Inquirer for maybe two months now.

[Jay Dyer]

I was just wondering, is there a

[Caller/Inquirer]

book set for the. For, like ecumenical councils that you will recommend?

[Jay Dyer]

I would say read. Instead of trying to read through the ecumenical councils. I mean, you could get this volume. This volume is still. You can find the Philip Schaff. You can sometimes buy just the volume, say, on the ecumenical Councils. But I would rather. I would say read volume one and two of Pelican Set over that. That would be more relevant to getting a full picture of the first thousand years of Christianity. And those are really good one and two. I mean, they're using seminaries, so they're good. I don't know about one single book just on ecumenical councils, but there could be one that. I mean, I just heard about this Saint Notariel's book on the schism. I didn't even know that existed until Pano told me to get it the other day. So they're probably. There could be one that I'm just not even aware of. Mitch, what's up. Again? Evangelicals. You need to ask for the intercession of Saint Dunning Kruger. What's up, A.J.

[Caller/Inquirer]

so formal, former evangelical pastor. Here's. Do you finally have an evangelical calling former?

[Jay Dyer]

Former to what? Former to what? No, no, no. Former and now. Former and now what?

[Caller/Inquirer]

Noun. Inquire.

[Jay Dyer]

Okay. Core. Awesome. Okay.

[Caller/Inquirer]

Yeah, yeah. So. So we had our former, or I guess now former pastor of this non denominator.

[Jay Dyer]

Are you there? By the way, I'm Sheikh Ibn Dyer.

[Caller/Inquirer]

Now,

[Jay Dyer]

Lewis exposed me a long time ago that I made my Hajj to Mecca. And I am now called. Ibn Dyer. Sheikh Ibn Dyer, we lost you, dude. Call back in. Anthony, what's up? David Wood has exposed me as a Muslim sympathizer because I said his critique, one guy's critique was correct. So that Obviously that means I 100 work with Islam now. That's how stupid this is. But it's also. It's telling too. How. What low view. What lack of respect David Wood has for his own own audience, right? That his response is to say that if I dared to say J. Dawa, right? I'm not Jay Dyer. I'm J dawa, brother J dawa. 11. What's up, Anthony? Okay. I thought you were gonna talk, dog. Are you there?

[Caller/Inquirer]

J?

[Jay Dyer]

Can you hear me? Yeah, what's up?

[Caller/Inquirer]

My bad.

[Jay Dyer]

So I was curious. It's off topic, so you can skip me if you want to. The. When you were talking with Tajo, it was a great discussion.

[Caller/Inquirer]

I know you didn't elaborate at the

[Jay Dyer]

time because it wouldn't really be appropriate, but when you said, because I'm debating with one of my Roman Catholic friends,

[Caller/Inquirer]

when you were saying it's better to not attend the Roman Catholic Church then attended, can you elaborate on that?

[Jay Dyer]

Do you remember that part? I think it was at the end of the conversation. And he had a more liberal attitude about that question. I think that as you saw from the canons earlier, Orthodox are not allowed to participate in liturgical worship of heretics and schismatics. So we saw that. If you go back to the first hour, we went through the canons of Laodicea, we went through the canons of Gangra, we went through the canons of Nicaea 1, we went through the canons of Constantinople 1. And you can immediately. In the Apostolic canons, you can see right away there's strict limitations on what it means to be heretic and schismatic. And it's determined canonically. And this is what Protestants don't understand. And in fact, we made the argument that we can disprove Protestantism just by the canons, because the canons show us that the Church is viewing itself as able to lay down Church law, which is what delineates the boundaries of heretic and schismatic. So, unfortunately, Rome departed from the faith a long time ago, and they have all kinds of crazy innovations now post Vatican ii. I mean, it would be one thing if we were talking about, you know, the Tridentine Latin Mass, because even though I don't agree with any of that, at that time, it was what Purgatory created. Grace, works of super irrigation, filioque. Right. I mean, at the time of Trent, it would be like maybe 10 things that were, like, major issues. Well, post Vatican 2, we're in a totally different world, dude. We're in, like, Novus Sordo Gay Clown Mass, where the priests baptize people into the land, the sea and the air. I'm not joking. There's actually Novus Sorto priests that do that, and they use cookies for the Eucharist. I'm not kidding. Clown Masses, cookie. I mean, so we're. We're way. That's why we can't say anymore. You know, this is not Pope Pius V, Tridentine Church anymore. That's Gone. That's long gone. I mean, that is kind of there amongst the SSPX or the set of a contest, but even that was way off, off kilter. Well, how are we going to say, oh, well, yeah, you can just go to the, you know, gay guitar mass with the clown. The clown mass and the Dorito Eucharist. I mean, it's, it's so far. And by the way. Oh, you're just picking extremes. Well, it's actually not that extreme because this is pretty widespread in Rome, especially in certain areas. Right. Like Dutch areas, German areas, Cardinal Marx's areas. A lot of the American Catholic Church, a lot of those areas, they're the worst. Women altar servers. Letting women give sermons basically let women run everything. That's the norm in a lot of Roman Catholic, American Western parishes. And what did we just see in the canons? Women are not allowed on the altar. Women are not to be presbytera or preachers in the church. Did you remember those canons we just read Gangra Laodicea an hour ago. So now, and I'm not trying to be mean to that guy, but he might not have seen the first hour. In the first hour, all we did was look at canons and how the canons disprove Protestantism because it shows us the mindset of the church in synod. And that trumps individuals. This is what they cannot fathom. Just like the papists, they say, I'll just cite Jerome, I'll just cite Augustine, I'll just cite this dude. Well, wouldn't canon law trump one dude, since it's the mindset of all of the church, generally speaking. Well, the kind of law is not infallible. It's not a question of infallible or not. Your bishop's not infallible. That doesn't mean he's not an authority. Remember we had a guy call in last night, he said the same thing. Why would I submit to the bishop, but the bishop is infallible. Well, infallibility is not a criteria of authority. And that's what we made the same argument about the Old Testament. The lee, the pre, the priests and the Levites and the synagogue teachers, they were not infallible, but they still had authority. Even in the Old Testament, they were the normative authorities. So infallibility is not the essential criteria for authority. And this is why the Protestants always lose their mind about this. They cannot conceive of an authority that isn't, quote, infallible. Even though they don't turn around. A lot of the classical reformer people will say, well, we believe our Presbyterian Synod has authority. Yeah. Okay, so you admit the point then, that having authority is not essentially bound up with infallibility. And it turns out this is breaking news as well. Let's see what Lord Voldemort saying. The. The rument is that Daily Wire is about to close. Another small victory. Let's see what he says. A year ago, they laid off 50% of their employees. Last week they laid off the other 50%.

[Documentary Narrator]

So that means they have 25% of the employees they had a year ago.

[Jay Dyer]

And it's all because Ben Shapiro is a known front for the Israeli government. Massive funding, that's all they push. And people are sick and tired of it. But here's the bigger story. But nobody's covering the collapse of the Daily Wire and all other neocon ratings like Mark Levin on Fox.

[Documentary Narrator]

Almost no viewers.

[Jay Dyer]

Lowest ratings on Fox is emblematic of the collapse in major polling for President Trump. Now, I mainly am interested in the Daily Wire point of this. Why? Because Daily Wire is an outlet for evangelical Zionism. Because the funders, those Texas billionaire funders are Aryan messianic cult leaders. They're in the area. I forget the name of those billionaire whatever brothers. That's the money behind Daily Wire. And I'm happy to see that that Heresy outlet is going under. Good. Their sucked anyway. I mean, if you ever watch Ben one day for fun, I watched like 40 minutes of Ben Shapiro just to see what he even does. Dude, the show is so boring. All he does is play a clip and then tell you what he just saw in the clip. It's not even as like Arnold Schwarzenegger is entertaining on the DVD commentaries because he will tell you what happened in the clip. But he's funny as hell because he's retarded and he's drunk when he's doing the DVD commentaries. You don't even get that Ben Shapiro. It's just. Yeah, we just watch a clip and transgenders and one of the transgenders and transgenders going against facts and logic. So we just watched a clip where two transgenders were saying that. It's like, yeah, I saw the clip, dude. I don't need a Wikipedia summary. An AI summary of the clip. We just watched it. So, I mean, Arnold Schwarzenegger is more entertaining than Ben Shapiro. Look at me. Yeah, that's when I was talking to the guy and this is the bad guy. And we tried to stop the together, the like P with the good guys. But then we try to fight the bad guy. Yeah, we know that you're the good guy. Arnold, everybody has seen your movies. Thank you for giving us a play by play. Like, remember we were watching this clip the other night. We were all dying, laughing at. Because people didn't believe me. They were like, nuh. There's no hilarious Schwarzenegger commentaries. Yes, there are. There's a bunch. They're actually really funny. You should watch them. That's the same thing that Ben Shapiro does. He just watches a clip and tells you what was in the clip. It's like, dude, what? This is what? They poured like hundreds of millions of dollars into White Mountains. What's up?

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[Caller/Inquirer]

I drive my bus in a busy city. That's why road safety is so important to me. I know that I must slow down and be extra careful when I make a wide turn. Buses need more room than cars. Everyone can help keep our roads safe. Next time you're driving, remember to give buses plenty of time and space. Space to finish turning before driving ahead. Let's all plan to share the road safely. Learn how at www.sharetheroad safely.gov. hello, Jay.

[Jay Dyer]

Yo.

[Caller/Inquirer]

I got a question. So it's more of a, I guess I want your opinion on something. So I called in a while ago about the parish that we're attending, which is go arch. So they actually turns out teach ecumenicalism. So I've been looking at the other church in our area, but I was like looking at their Facebook and they do events at a Masonic lodge. So I'm kind of just like, what the hell? Like, like, what do you think?

[Jay Dyer]

Like, well, like sometimes, sometimes Masonic lodges are like the only venue that you can rent in a small place or somewhere. So that might not mean that they're necessarily Masonic on the down low. I would just go, like, go talk to them and be like, are y' all pro masonry? Are you pro Skittles? Are you like, just beef up front.

[Caller/Inquirer]

Okay. I got another question too, if that's okay.

[Jay Dyer]

Sure.

[Caller/Inquirer]

So I grew up, like, I guess non denominational. And so, you know, obviously all the stupidity about like the rapture and whatever.

[Jay Dyer]

Yeah.

[Caller/Inquirer]

So I Guess my question. I was doing like some research but I don't know, I'm super new so sometimes it's kind of hard for me to understand. So when in the Orthodox Church when we say that Christ is coming back, what does that like look like? You know what I mean? Because obviously in the church we don't believe in like pre tribulation or whatever. So like I guess in a nutshell or if you could point me.

[Jay Dyer]

Yeah, no, there's a great. I can. Well, there's a great little booklet from Jordanville Monastery. It's called Apostasy and Antichrist. But I don't know if it's in print because it kind of goes in and out of print. I cannot see in these glasses. And since it's out of print somebody there's a couple channels that have done audio versions of the whole little book. It's like a 60 page booklet by the way. It has partial preterism in it. So you could go to. I don't know what this. I'm not advocating for this website because I don't know who it is or what they're doing, but. God living in Holy Trinity being. So this little booklet is right here online and you can listen to the audio right there. And it gives basically just a. A bunch of quotations from church fathers and saints and elders and whatnot, the Orthodox Church and bishops giving the overall outline. So it begins with preterism and saying that 70 AD is the immediate context of Matthew 24, Luke 21 etc. And that's a microcosm of the last days. So some of the signs of the end of the world from the Orthodox perspective would be mass apostasy in the church attempting to ban the Divine Liturgy. Obviously Antichrist figure. Conversion of the Jews is another one that's listed very clearly. All of those are some of the key elements as well as the attempt to rebuild the third Temple. When you see those things, that's pretty much the universal indicators amongst the fathers that okay, this is looking like it really is the end. I'm not dissing the prophecy bros. I mean I just don't study all the elder saint prophecies. I'm not against them. It's just not. It's not my domain. I try to stick with more of the patristic and biblical approach, but that doesn't mean I'm dissing Conrad or Kotel or any of those people. It's just not a domain I've spent much time in. So that's, that's the great Thing about what we do in orthodoxy, like, there's different gifts. Not everybody has to be an aggressive debater. Not everybody has to be pajo, icon carver, symbology person. Right? There's places for everybody with their unique skills and gifts.

[Caller/Inquirer]

Not everybody has to be a debater. Mando bluegrass philosophy, bro.

[Jay Dyer]

Not everybody has to be Professor Deacon logic. I'm trying to think of other. I mean, how does Paul describe the. The gifts? Right? They're. They're all apportioned for different functions, right? And the eye can't say, I don't need you hand. Right? The hand can't say, I don't need you eyes, because they all work together. So, you know, we need people debating politics. You know, Andrew's really good at that. We need people debating feminism. Rachel's great at that. We need people debating logic. Father, I wish Father Deacon would do more debates. You're. You're. You would be the best, cool, calm debater if we could get you to do more debates.

[Caller/Inquirer]

Well, if I get paid, somebody pay me.

[Jay Dyer]

Okay. That's actually. All right. Well, I saw there was a comedian, Aries Spears was bitching that he hates doing podcasts because they won't pay him. And then it was like he was asking for, like, $5,000 for every appearance. It's like, dude, you're not that popular anymore. It's like $5,000 or something. Crazy amount. So, yeah, you have a. You should have a.

[Caller/Inquirer]

Every syllogism, I get 5,000.

[Jay Dyer]

Yeah, I have a minimum of, like, I get paid per syllogism in a debate. So I expect, you know, at least, I don't know, one bitcoin per syllogism in a debate.

[Caller/Inquirer]

You know, I'm. I'm kind of joking, but I'm serious. Like, I'm just grading right now while I'm doing this. I have 240 essays. I have eight classes. I served two parishes. Oh, I have a wife. I actually have a life, but do you know what I mean? Like, that stuff, other than my wife, I get paid for, so it's like I have to take time for, like, everybody just wants you to do free stuff. It's like, I. I like debates, but it's got to be worth your while.

[Jay Dyer]

I've never even thought about charging.

[Caller/Inquirer]

I've turn down certain debates of somebody because it's not worth your while. And I don't necessarily mean even monetarily, but.

[Jay Dyer]

No, this is something that a lot of, like, Internet goobers and randos don't understand, that not every person is Worth a debate. And then everybody on the Internet thinks, no, you have to debate and respond to every single person. Well, dude, I'm the only one out here in this sphere of apologetics who literally does the open calls where anyone can debate. So I'm like, nobody else will do that, as far as I'm aware. Now Cleaves kind of does it. Alex will do it. But I'm saying, like, none of these other people. Trent Horn won't do open forums to talk to all y'. All. Gavin Orland, as far as I'm aware, he doesn't do open forums where he lets anybody call in and challenge what? We're not scared. Like, we don't. I'm not worried about anybody calling in and bringing their challenges. Oh, but you block everybody. You block everybody. No, I block the people that talk smack and won't debate. That's very different from just blocking everybody. I block the people that talk smack. And then when I say, come on the stream, here's the link. Call in next time.

[Caller/Inquirer]

They always like, oh, this is blocked for no reason.

[Jay Dyer]

Yeah, always blocked for no reason.

[Caller/Inquirer]

Cop just pulled me over for no reason.

[Jay Dyer]

I didn't do nothing. I didn't do nothing, man. Yeah, I just. Yeah, I don't know why I got blocked. I just went into the discord and made death threats. I don't know why they blocked me. That's a joke with a guy that was saying that about me. Aqua Note, can I join the call? That was yesterday. Yes. Cyril says for $5, Ortho Bros converted me out of the fake Orthodox Presbyterian Church. Hey, man. There we go. Corbin, 20. What do you think of Andrew Wood and David Wood debating? I think it's funny. And it just shows that David Wood will debate about me but won't debate me. So he'll debate.

[Caller/Inquirer]

Weird, wasn't it?

[Jay Dyer]

Isn't that weird? Yeah, he'll debate Andrew on whether or not it's bad to say to that random Muslim dude that, yeah, you were correct in your criticism of God logic. Oh, he's a Muslim collaborator now, dude. That's the, like, leftist logic, right? That's like Russian collusion. Collusion logic. $2 gas, Papa. Well, $2 ain't going to get me far in gas, but thank you, Bernie Bush. $10. Jay, I want to apologize. I used to critique your demeanor. I let that obfuscate the bigger picture, which is that these prot. Liberal channels are actually not acting a good faith crisis. Thank you. Yeah, I think again. And FDA knows this. I'm sure everybody in the debate spirit, Rachel and Andrea, we've all experienced this. A lot of people that you interact with put on a good face, and they are very nice on their streams or publicly or whatever in the background. So many people in media are just absolutely backstabbing snakes, man. They're just no morals, no qualms. They will. They will stab you in the back in a heartbeat.

[Caller/Inquirer]

Luckily, thank God, I rightly know how to interpret faces.

[Jay Dyer]

So, yes, Father Deacon has a degree from FBI University in facial physiognomy recognition.

[Caller/Inquirer]

Well, it's crazy. So we just finished up on office hours. We were doing.

[Jay Dyer]

You were on Tim Heidecker show. What? I'm joking.

[Caller/Inquirer]

We did a two. The last two office hours with the seminary, with Jordanville. We were doing the David and adjunct debate, and we're going through Chalcedon and Ephesus and in these things. And I didn't even think about this. I first got the idea when I was doing Logic. Classic Carol. We're doing a debate with Alex o' Connor and that Richard Schwinburn. Yeah. And I was like, well, Alex Connor has the fallacy of, like, gay man leg crossing. I'm like, I don't know why. He's, like, honed into those details, but I'm like, I don't think any man should, you know what I'm talking about, do the kind of, like, crossover leg.

[Jay Dyer]

Yeah, we all know what that is.

[Caller/Inquirer]

You can do a right angle or you can do your. Your feet behind, kind of tucked in. And I'm like, it looks gay and effeminate. I don't know.

[Jay Dyer]

I like your new approach. Right. So we're not even gonna just do. We won't. We won't. We won't even do debates anymore. We'll just do a physiognomy check. And that's it.

[Caller/Inquirer]

That's what I've been doing. And so I was like, let's do the adjunct. And I'm like. Because you can. And you can always do that, but you can tell a lot by how squirrely and the weird kind of mannerisms. And I'm like, shifty eyes, swallowing a lot, can't hold still. And I'm like, anyways, I think that's kind of a new thing that we should do in an analysis of debate. What do you think?

[Jay Dyer]

I like it. By the way, notice this was pretty funny. I forgot this. I forgot to mention that yesterday, David Wood was playing the race card. This was so pathetic. So, because I called out Avery pushing people to the synagogue to Judaize Them. And David Wood's response was, oh, Jay Dyer calls out the black apologist. So he's. I mean, this is so low tier, trying to pull the race card. Because I called out. I didn't call out Avery for anything racial. And then I just said, well, I'm bipoc. Which was a massive ratio for David Wood because David. David and I did this because David Wood loves bragging about ratios. When he got ratioed not once, but twice when I asked him if you want to set up a formal debate. And of course, no, he won't do it. So now if you support Zionism, like Ridvon and his weird fetish, you're all good. And if you send people to the synagogues for church, you're all. Actually, it wasn't even synagogue for church. It was online zoom call discipling with a fake Mexican rabbi. You can't make this up, dude. That's the real church, though, Rabi.

[Caller/Inquirer]

Balls.

[Jay Dyer]

What's the Mexican term for balls? For testicles.

[Caller/Inquirer]

Wos.

[Jay Dyer]

Hey, bro, my name is.

[Documentary Narrator]

My name is Rabbi.

[Jay Dyer]

Rabbi Wos. Hey, bro, bring your tamales to Rabbi Wos Church. It's also a synagogue too, bro.

[Caller/Inquirer]

Now it operates as a.

[Jay Dyer]

It's a. It's a. It's a food truck. It's a food truck.

[Caller/Inquirer]

Church operates as a bank, an atm, and

[Jay Dyer]

hey, bro, check it out. Like, you could totally. You could totally exchange your gold for pesos or whatever.

[Caller/Inquirer]

Bro, you need to launder some money.

[Jay Dyer]

Hey, homie, you need to launder a little bit of cash or whatever,

[Documentary Narrator]

come

[Jay Dyer]

to Saint Tamales food truck on the corner of Wilson Avenue.

[Caller/Inquirer]

That'd make a good skit.

[Documentary Narrator]

We should.

[Caller/Inquirer]

We should make these sketch sketches. You know what I mean?

[Jay Dyer]

Yeah, that'd be. Well, that'd be a perfect skit to get you canceled from Adult Swim. So that's the. That's the skit they got Sam canceled from Adult Skin.

[Caller/Inquirer]

Oh, really? Jesus.

[Jay Dyer]

Yeah. By the way, I forgot shout out to Dire Wire one of the. One of those newer Eclipse channels. They made this an awesome little hipster stomp clap cringe core. There's a new hipster stomp clap crunch core. Let's play it real quick. Gay space brother Gay space brother Won't you come down from up on high Gay space brother Gay space brother Won't you come down from up on high and touch my cheeks Touch my glutes from on high Touch my glutes from on high in the sky Gay space brother Won't you come down and slap them cheeks? Can I get Up. Slap on the cheek. Yeah. Can I get up? Slap on the butt cheek. Brother gonna come down and find you. Down from the mountain high say, brother, you gonna read and sign your. Into your g Sp face. Brother, you want to clap them cheeks like. Anthony, what's up, gay space? Brother going to clap them cheeks from up on high.

[Caller/Inquirer]

It's Kojones.

[Jay Dyer]

Wos.

[Caller/Inquirer]

Right, I got mixed up, but they use Wos.

[Jay Dyer]

Wos's Eggs. Rabbi Eggs. Okay, Rabbit. Anthony, what's up, dude?

[Caller/Inquirer]

Yeah, Jay. Yes. No, I, I, I just got two

[Jay Dyer]

points since you have Father Deacon here.

[Caller/Inquirer]

Two questions. One of them, the.

[Jay Dyer]

Would you say that the Roman Catholics, when they have Mass, are they participating

[Caller/Inquirer]

in the Eternal Heavenly Liturgy? No, no, absolutely not. If we talk about. Yeah, sorry. Well, we speak about. Liturgy is patterned off the worship in heaven. So if you have a different pattern, how could it be partaking in the liturgy and heaven? Gotcha.

[Jay Dyer]

And I'm sorry I'm ignorant and you know, the Roman Catholic, however they worship.

[Caller/Inquirer]

But

[Jay Dyer]

can you give me like a point or two about like, the main difference? Besides, obviously, you know, I know there's no essence, energy, distinction. And dude, you got to keep in mind, Anthony, I'm not trying to be mean, but like the modern Roman Catholic Church, most of the quote Masses, they're worse or equal to Anglican services. They're, they're basically just Protestant services. Pj, what's up, man? I wasn't laughing at you, by the way. I was laughing at the huevos calling him Rabbi Eggs instead of Rabbi Cojones.

[Caller/Inquirer]

It's way better.

[Jay Dyer]

It's actually. Yeah, Rabbi Eggs is funny. What's up, man? PJ Pajamas, what's up?

[Caller/Inquirer]

Hey, can you hear me?

[Jay Dyer]

Hey, bro. I can hear you, dude.

[Caller/Inquirer]

Oh, man.

[Jay Dyer]

You think I can't spot a troller within like two seconds, bro? Totally. I know you guys like, like, you guys are my people, bro. Even though I'm bipoc, I could, I could tell you I can spot you guys from a mile away, bro.

[Caller/Inquirer]

Yeah, you're fun. Again, I'm sorry, let me get to the, Let me get to the question about the, the ecumenism in the evangel in the evangelical spaces. Have you noticed that these people you are using mean girls tactics to.

[Jay Dyer]

Yes, yeah, absolutely. In fact, I noticed that. I said today, right here, look. No, this isn't it. I said the E. E. Apologists are just like the E. Thoughts on the Internet. I said it right here, dude.

[Caller/Inquirer]

No, but yeah, you're right. I've been seeing that a lot. They don't mention you by name. They're afraid to mention you by name. They make this passive aggressive remarks.

[Jay Dyer]

Yeah, totally.

[Caller/Inquirer]

They're clear talking about you, but they

[Jay Dyer]

don't want to say it.

[Caller/Inquirer]

It's like it's literally high school drama all over again.

[Jay Dyer]

Yes. These people, they're giant vaginas. Dude, look right here. I said today, right here, look. The ecumenical, evangelical, anti Islamity grift grift crowd are the exact mirror of the E Thought E girl grift crowd. This exact same man.

[Caller/Inquirer]

Because I've been noticing that.

[Jay Dyer]

I'm sorry, I'm sorry. Dude, come back here. I thought you were. I thought you were done. Go ahead. Pj, Come back. Pj. I mean, I thought you were finished and I hit the button too quick. Come back if you want to, pj. Sorry about that, Chase H. Oh. Oh my gosh. Now what?

[Caller/Inquirer]

Yo, what's up, girl?

[Jay Dyer]

What's up, little Tristan?

[Caller/Inquirer]

That's not funny. Yeah, it's. This whole thing's fascinating and it. What I think is going on and I haven't been able to watch the most of your stream today. What I think is happening is these people, they are doing these insane tactics like David Wood saying somehow you are allying with Muslims when you just agreed with them with one Muslim saying, yeah, they're not interested in about what's true. Their entire brand is just anti Islam. I think the reason that they're doing it is because they know they can't actually defend Protestantism.

[Jay Dyer]

Right.

[Caller/Inquirer]

And if they character assassinate you and they character assassinate Orthodox doing apologetics that aren't ecumenists, you know, doing actual apologetics to say, hey, whatever system you believe in, whatever world do you have, come in and join the church. This is an easy way to just discredit you and discredit Orthodoxy. And they play this game of, oh, you're the. The Pope. The Pope, Dyer. You know, all this like silly stuff. I was, I was baptized and received by a cradle Romanian serving under the Greeks who agreed with everything theologically.

[Jay Dyer]

And I.

[Caller/Inquirer]

He would ask me to help with, you know, obviously Sunday school and stuff like that. But this is, this is the point is that they are using this just to try to stop orthodox apologetics in general. That's what they want. That's why they ally with people like schismatics. And I try to talk to John Claypool and I wanted to ask him what bishop he's in communion with to show these dummies, like the JP uncut dude, this is a schismatic. But they're not interested in any. Stopping the conversation.

[Jay Dyer]

I'm gonna correct you.

[Caller/Inquirer]

Not John Claypool. Nick.

[Jay Dyer]

No,

[Caller/Inquirer]

you're right, Father. And I is my bad.

[Jay Dyer]

Yeah, well, I got a little question for you, Chase. I noticed the name Haggard is suspicious. Suspiciously similar to Hagar. Are you in collusion with Muslims?

[Caller/Inquirer]

Yes. And I actually, I was at the grocery store the other day, and I saw. I saw a Muslim, and they also picked up. Picked up milk. I enjoy drinking milk with my coffee.

[Jay Dyer]

Dog whistle. Muslim dog whistle. You're drinking milk just like the Muslims. Islamic dog whistles right there.

[Caller/Inquirer]

Yep. But what do you think about that? Like, I. It seems to me that this and the whole, like, ortho bro thing, which they can't ever define ever, or it's so loosely defined, it's. Anybody that's orthodox?

[Jay Dyer]

No. You know what? You know what? Cleave actually figured that out. He made a great point a minute ago. He said the reason that they're attacking ortho bros is because they don't have the cojones to attack orthodoxy. So they act like, oh, we still want to be friends with all the orthodox people. It's just the evil ortho bros. When ortho bros are basically, whether you like them or not, they're just stating orthodox theology.

[Caller/Inquirer]

Exactly. And. And then they'll try to use these nebulous things. Like when I tried to ask John Claypool and JP and that. That weird Mueller dude who was just screaming at me the entire time when I called into their show. It was very strange. When I tried to ask them, John said, he's like, oh, they're racist. And I was about to say, I'm. I'm not racist, so I'm not an ortho bro. And then they. They. They just. They want to stop the conversations about actual dogma. That's what they want, dude.

[Jay Dyer]

Calling people racist. That's. That's what David Wood did. David Wood trying to imply that I called out God logic because I'm racist. It's like, where do you. Like, that's so

[Caller/Inquirer]

thousands. Like, does that even work?

[Jay Dyer]

No, it doesn't even work. They're so behind that. They're using the tactics of, like, 2010 Democrats. Dude, what's up? Hey, PJ Bro, what else did you want to say, dude?

[Caller/Inquirer]

Yeah, it is about what my father nickname and I was talking about. I noticed that these guys are also very pro feminists. Yep. They rarely cut it out. And because of that, they use the exact same tactics that the feminists use to detect to discredit Somebody against other people because they're, like, so passive aggressive, and they can't. That's. They're so incapable of actually, like, confrontation.

[Jay Dyer]

Yes, It's.

[Caller/Inquirer]

It's kind of. Yeah, that's why I had to say no.

[Jay Dyer]

That's exactly what it is. You hit the nail on the head, everybody. It's all. It's not the theology. It's none of that. It's. First and foremost, it's a bunch of feminized wussies, dude. That's all it is. And then the rest of it's all smoke and mirrors. Sam, what's up? Sam Shamu. What's up, you son of the devil? Are you doing muta with the Shia tonight? Is your mother doing muta with the Shia tonight, you son of the devil?

[Caller/Inquirer]

Oh, no, Muto. No, homes. That's big. That's bad for you. No. Hey, I'm over here at Papa Pio's taco truck. Over here at Papa Pio's Buenos Noches from the west coast, homes. For two, for one, I served the Eucharistia on flatbread to you, homes.

[Jay Dyer]

Okay?

[Caller/Inquirer]

You know, the imperial Eucharistia because it's flat. The tortilla Eucharistia. That's how you know it's real, homes. In the full spirit of ecumenism, when you go over to my cousins, you know Rabbi Cojones, you go over to Rabbi Cohones, he'll serve you with the flatbread himself. It's Eucharistia and it's ecumenismo. I got the blessing from the Pope himself. Who wants.

[Jay Dyer]

Actually, I appreciate the Pope would bless that. Actually, that would be fully in line with ecumenism. Zet, what's up, dude? Gay space, brother. Harsh word. Says for 40 weird currencies. I used to think that Jay and David Wood were the same person. Dude, let me prove you false. Could David Wood look like this? Watch this. I'm gonna blow your minds right here. Talking about effeminacy and divas. Could David Wood look like that? Nope. Could God logic look like that? Nope. So, no, I'm not the same as any of those people. Zach, what's up?

[Caller/Inquirer]

Hey, can you hear me? Yeah. So, big fan just called because I was wondering if I could take the Freemason position real quick.

[Jay Dyer]

You're not serious.

[Caller/Inquirer]

No, I'm serious.

[Jay Dyer]

You're. Are you debating to debate, or are you really a Mason?

[Caller/Inquirer]

No, I'm not a Mason. I just have one point.

[Jay Dyer]

Okay.

[Caller/Inquirer]

One of your arguments that you used in the debate.

[Jay Dyer]

Okay, go ahead.

[Caller/Inquirer]

Sure, yeah. So it seems like one of the main things you pointed out was like the fact that they would not allow someone like a Satanist to join their, their group. Or, you know, you had to believe in one God or you have to have, you have to believe in a religion that believes in one God to join. Right. And so you were using that to say that it entails you, that you're pointing out a generic theism or generic monotheism or whatever.

[Jay Dyer]

Right.

[Caller/Inquirer]

And I'm, I don't see why that necessarily entails that. Why couldn't it just be we'd rather you believe in a religion that believes in one God because chances are, you know, you're going to be a Christian or a Jew or a Muslim and generally these people are okay, but like a Satanist, that's kind of like queer.

[Jay Dyer]

No, first of all, the argument. Hold on.

[Caller/Inquirer]

Culturally weird. Hold on.

[Jay Dyer]

The argument was intended to show first that they don't just have one dogma of believing in monotheism. You also have to qualify that by all of these things that are excluded. That was the first point to show that it's not actually one dogma, it's many dogmas. The second point is they actually dogmatize that the God can't be specific. So that's the problem. They have a dogma of generic theism.

[Caller/Inquirer]

Really? Okay, yeah. If it can't be specific, that makes sense. And then also too. Do you remember when I did that article and I was working with Garby, so with this Common Core, this generic thing, one of the things that it's about God is he's worthy of worship, but worship requires allegiance.

[Jay Dyer]

Yes, great point.

[Caller/Inquirer]

You can't, you can't have a generic God. That's like saying there's two warring armies and I'm allegiant to them both.

[Jay Dyer]

I am with Army.

[Caller/Inquirer]

So worship requires exclusion to the exclusion of others. Right. So it doesn't make sense that you can even say like, oh, I can have this generic kind of. Or we accept this other worship. So worship, just like allegiance to an army, excludes all the, the others too.

[Jay Dyer]

So that's another. And another way to show that this is false. And I should have brought this up in the, in the debate and I forgot is that when you go to Masonic lodges, they will put on their quote, altar the Torah, the Bible and the Quran and even the Bhagavad Gita now. And I've got it up on screen. So when you are. Yeah, well, yeah, when you join the Masonic Lodge, any of those can be placed on the altar. Here's an example where they put the Bible, the Shinto text, the Bhagavad Gita, the Jefferson Bible, the Torah, and the Quran. So this. This proves my point.

[Caller/Inquirer]

All right, cool. I was under the perception that they just wanted you to believe something, but, like, you would never talk anybody about what you believe in, and they would never teach you anything.

[Jay Dyer]

But if they actually, you know, there's a bunch of. Yeah, there's a bunch of. A bunch of Masonic altars right there. And then throughout the debate, Chase kept saying, yeah, but I can personally have it be my God. It doesn't. That doesn't work. That's like Father Deacon saying, it's like, you can't be. Well, I. I am. I'm fighting on the side of army, but personally, it's the good guys. I'm against the bad guys, but I'm also on the side of all army. Like, okay, well, if there's a Muslim army and a Christian army, and you say, I'm on the side of army, but I'm also personally on the side of the Christians, this is retarded. It's like, obviously, this doesn't work. Doosan, what's up?

[Caller/Inquirer]

Hey. I was just wanting to build up off the huevos ecumenism next time if

[Jay Dyer]

any of these evangelicals ever debate you. Have you tried running the DN argumentation? The what?

[Caller/Inquirer]

Running these nuts across your forehead. All right, got him. Thank you.

[Jay Dyer]

It's been a while since I heard a good D's nuts argument. I like it. Chase, what's up? Although it might be verging into gay territory, so we don't want to. If we do something like that, we might attract the galleons. Chase, what's up?

[Caller/Inquirer]

Hey, Jay. I just wanted to say, dude, your freemason debate could not have came at a better time for me, spiritually speaking.

[Jay Dyer]

Okay.

[Caller/Inquirer]

I. I just moved away from an orthodox church that I was attending around two hours away due to financial reasons. I'm a salesman. Had to move back home in with. In with family to get back on my feet. And one of my fleet managers is actually a Mason. He started telling me about how great it was. You know, we got a lot of Baptist pastors here in the south that are Freemasons, and so I was looking into it and thought it might be a cool thing to join. He gave me a bunch of Shriners magazines. I was like, oh, look, they're helping kids. You know, look really cool. And so I hate to say it, but I did. I did end up petitioning, but, you know, I'm not going to join, obviously. But before I petitioned, I had a. I had, like, Masons coming to my job, asking for me by name that had Masonic tags on the back of their vehicles that came for about two weeks straight. And I felt completely gangstalked. This is before I'd ever even signed a petition. So I just want to ask, do you have any, like, actual record of Masons that have done gang stalking?

[Jay Dyer]

I mean, I, I don't know your situation, but I don't really think they would. Gangstalk typically nowadays, because they're a little more, they're, they're less popular for. Amongst people. Younger you go, people are less interested. I mean, in history, if you look at the William Morgan affair, there was a Masonic assassination. And we just had that case in France, there was a Masonic hit squad. I think those are in. Those are more rare than the norm. And I don't mean to be rude, but I'm just saying, like, I doubt that. How can. I mean, they might be to be zealous because they just want you to join the Lodge. But, like, I, I, and I don't mean to hurt people's feelings, but I. Unfortunately, I think that most people. Not you, dude, because I don't know you. But in general, people that think they're being gangstalked, they're not being gangstalked. It's. It's almost always people who are having, you know, paranoia episodes, schizophrenic episodes. If you watch the doc, I watched a bunch of stuff on this. Yes. I know that during the Cold War, the East German Stasi had perfected a technique of harassing, you know, dissidents to the, to the Sauzi. I know all about that, but I don't think that that's happening to most people, mainly because, and I don't want to hurt your feelings, but, like, most people are not a threat to the establishment. And if you, you know, if you had, like, compromising info on a politician. Yeah. I might believe you're. You were harassed and stalked or something. If you had dirt on, you know, I mean, if you're Michael Hutchinson, you're sleeping with Bob Geldoff's wife, then you might end up asphyxiated. I mean, I don't just say, like, that. That's the kind of a situation where I could believe it. But if you're like, you know, random factory worker dude. Not dissing random factory worker. Like, if you. I'm not hating on working class Folks, I'm just saying, I don't think they're worried about, you know, random people, whether they join the Lodge or not, but. Andrew, what's up?

[Caller/Inquirer]

Hello.

[Jay Dyer]

I mean, who, like, like, who have we seen off in recent times? Charlie Kirk, whatever you think about it, whoever did it, Jeff Stein, McAffrey, they attempted Trump, whatever you think of that. The Masonic hit squads going after organized crime or being involved in organized crime stuff. Guys in the chat remind me, who are the more recent, you know, people unalived. Benazir Bhuto was unalived because of Muslim stuff. Breitbart unalived, it seems. Probably. I'm sure I'm forgetting some obvious ones. People around the Clintons who also. Oh, yeah, who was the. The famous. My godfather wrote a book about the. The guy that was in the circles of Hillary that was unalived. What was his name? I'm going blank on the Hillary dude. Oh, the. The insurance CEO Virginia Jiufre, perhaps Shinzo, right? Yeah. You had the Japanese guy take unalived. Perhaps Kurt Cobain, perhaps David Carradine. Yeah. Seth Rich, perhaps McAfee. I don't mean people that we speculate about. I'm saying, like, known on Alvings, Shinzo, Abe, definitely. I mean, that kind of stuff's kind of rare. You know what I mean? So Cecil. Cecil and Harambe. There we go. Oh, Justice Scalia. That's the one. I forgot about him. Perhaps. Yeah. Those are the perhaps, though. Andrew, what's up?

[Caller/Inquirer]

Hey, sorry, I'm about an hour behind in the live, so I don't know if this was brought up or not, but you were looking at the cannon zones versus Constantinople and saw that the third one was different. I looked in the Wayback Machine and it was changed all the way back in 07.

[Jay Dyer]

Oh, you're saying that the New Advent deleted that canon?

[Caller/Inquirer]

Yeah.

[Jay Dyer]

Wow.

[Caller/Inquirer]

In November of 06, it's there.

[Jay Dyer]

Wow.

[Caller/Inquirer]

The next snapshot is in 7. It's gone.

[Jay Dyer]

Interesting. I wonder who and why they thought to do that, because. Yeah, that's interesting. And by the way, when I was pulling up the. I don't. I still don't understand why there would be two versions of John Paul II's homies in Jordan or speech to the Jordanians. Because there's one that says still has the May John the Baptist protect Islam. And then there's another version where it's not there. And people found that the Vatican website still has both there, but I think it's the same talk. So these are interesting questions. Why would New Advent, remove that canon in 2007. And why would there be two versions of John Paul saying that? One saying John the Baptist, protect Islam and another one saying where he doesn't say it? Luca, what's up? But I mean, come on now. The Vatican is like, they're classics when it comes to forgeries. They're like the. The ancient masters of forgeries. Dude.

[Caller/Inquirer]

Sorry, aj I'm relatively new to your channel. I've been watching you for about three months. I'm sorry. I know this is. It's. Sorry. My first time doing this kind of thing.

[Jay Dyer]

It's okay.

[Caller/Inquirer]

The.

[Jay Dyer]

The.

[Caller/Inquirer]

I know the topic is icons are not idols and stuff like that, but I have broader questions just in general, and I'm not trying to be like, antagonistic or anything towards you. Okay. My family is Orthodox Christian. I'm from Macedonia. I've just recently come into the faith, almost a year ago, give or take, through logic, I guess. I was looking through Islam and just reading up on a bunch of things, and my conclusion was that Jesus Christ is our Lord and Savior and that the Orthodox Church is one true church. And I've watched your videos on that. My question being. Or one of the questions that I want your opinion on is I think my mom is falling into the modern liberal feminist kind of ideology. And it's like, I don't really see it as a Orthodox or even near Christianity. And it's just whenever I tried to show her any kind of debates involving Rachel Wilson, she shut it down. Like, oh, this is demonic. This is that. They don't watch debates like that. And she's pro abortion. But I don't know how you can hold the same claim as, I'm Orthodox Christian, I believe in Jesus Christ and stuff, and also be pro abortion.

[Jay Dyer]

Well, yeah, you can't. Right. I appreciate that, Luca, but here's the thing. You're. You can't debate your parents. Never debate your parents. It's not going to work. They're never going to listen to you logically refuting them. I've never even heard of that, ever. The only way you're going to convert your parents is that if you become a responsible adult with a job and, you know, wife and kids and all that, then they will perhaps listen to things that you have to say. But they changed your poopy diapers. They're not interested in your logical argumentation, so don't even try it. It will get you nowhere. In fact, you'll just have a less. A worse relationship by trying to argue with your parents. So Never, ever argue with the parents. The only time I would say that it's good to do that, in my estimation, is that if they specifically ask you, like, hey, why do Orthodox do this? Or, what's your view on this? Yeah. Then you can give an answer, but don't. Don't argue with them. We're looking for people who disagree. By the way, Fugan, what's up? I'm not fussing at that guy. I don't mind people who have questions calling in Fugan. What's up,

[Caller/Inquirer]

Yoj? What's up? What's going on? Father Deacon, I saw one of the Wilsons in the call. I just wanted to shout them out real quick. Love you guys. God bless. But I'm gonna get right to the point. I'm still learning about ecumenism. I just picked up Orthodoxy and the religion of the future. I'm gonna be honest. The. The Father Seraphim Rose talks about legit scares the absolute out of me.

[Jay Dyer]

What exactly. What exactly is scary? What do you mean?

[Caller/Inquirer]

So that's what. That's what I'm. That's what I'm talking about. So someone is still learning and coming into the church, Right. The. It talks a lot about it uses the word Antichrist a lot. Right. And how do you share something like this with people that you know, that are in these churches, right. That are still your friends, are still your family, not and not sound like an absolute insane person. Right. This is something that I think is worth talking about, or at least to explain that these theological views are just far from true Christianity.

[Jay Dyer]

Well, like we mentioned a minute ago with the previous guy, with family, you're never gonna get anywhere debating your family. And the same goes for your brothers and sisters, too. My younger brother and I, we used to have arguments all the time, and I would try to debate him. I try to debate with my mom, my dad. It doesn't go anywhere because they've been around you their whole life. They've seen every mistake and flaw and sin that you've done publicly. They know all that, and it just doesn't work. So they have to see a change in you over time. So keep in mind, too, because a lot of us are theology nerds. We're spurgs, we're philosophy weirdos. We think that everybody's going to be thinking logically and argumentation wise about how to solve these problems. No, 99% of people don't think that way. They think that what's true is what I want to be true. So there's got to Be a change in the person. And a lot of times this comes when a difficulty happens in their life. It doesn't come through logical argumentation very rarely. Usually it's a death in the family, car wreck, illness. Those are the things that get people thinking. Maybe my paradigm isn't what I want to be true, but maybe I have to actually submit to something true. So until those things happen in a person's life, arguing and debating is. Is limited in its effectiveness. So the best approach with friends and family is feel them out. If they're open to it, then take a, hey, check out this documentary. Check out this book. Tell me what you think of it. Take that kind of judo approach. Let them come to you. Let them ask the questions. Don't be aggressive with your friends and family. You can be aggressive with your bros, right? Because bros can appreciate and take aggression. Your mom, your grandma. Don't pre sub grandma. That's what I'm trying to say. Abide by the rule of don't pre sub grandma. Fuei, what's up?

[Caller/Inquirer]

Hello? Hello?

[Jay Dyer]

Yo.

[Caller/Inquirer]

Yeah, you can hear me? I. I could barely hear you.

[Jay Dyer]

I can hear you. Well.

[Caller/Inquirer]

Oh, I hear you now. I was gonna ask a question. So basically, I had started OCIA within the Catholic Church, but then, like, after really inquiring online and doing some, like, research, I wanted to pursue, like, basically inquiring of orthodoxy. So I went to a church, and I spoke to a priest, and I was telling him how, basically, the church that I was in Ocia, and they were saying that they didn't recognize my baptism. And so I was trying to. I was trying to tell him he might end up, you know, he was saying that he might end up going through the same thing, like, he might end up feeling the same way. But what he told me was, since I was already in ocia, what he told me was that it would probably make more sense for me to finish that out and go through with the whole process and then come to him, and then he would receive me that way because he would have, like, less baggage. I just wanted to know, like, since you have father on, like, is that an appropriate.

[Jay Dyer]

No, not typically. I mean, unless there's some extenuating circumstance that we don't know about. Not. That's not. Is the stream still going? It look like it. Did it cut off? Looks like it's still going. Maybe it just shut. Shut down on YouTube, FDA. Would you say anything about that? All right. He can't hear me. No, unfortunately, that's not.

[Caller/Inquirer]

Sorry, could you say again? It's probably. But without even knowing probably not. What? What's the question now?

[Jay Dyer]

He says that orthodox priest told him to finish his Roman Catholic rcia.

[Caller/Inquirer]

Absolutely not.

[Jay Dyer]

Yeah, all right.

[Caller/Inquirer]

Priest said, you know what? I know you're going to the Scientology. What do they call that when you do Auditing?

[Jay Dyer]

Auditing.

[Caller/Inquirer]

Auditing. I think you just finish up that program. Finish up whatever deals that you have with the cartel.

[Jay Dyer]

Yeah. Go ahead and get catechized in the Vatican to Nostra Tate religion and then we'll.

[Caller/Inquirer]

And then come in after you. After you've done all the satanic stuff. Why don't you just come on in? Yeah.

[Jay Dyer]

Jake, what's up, man?

[Caller/Inquirer]

Hello? Hey, Jay, can you hear me?

[Jay Dyer]

Yes, sir.

[Caller/Inquirer]

Hey, it was something either last night or the previous live. You said something about many or some of the, you know, stories of the saints are similar to myth or legend. And I was curious because what got me into orthodoxy was kind of a lot of the biographies and whatnot lifes of the saints. And I was enabled by it, but also very skeptical as well of some of the stories that I heard. Do you know any literature that goes deeper into what you were insinuating the other night?

[Jay Dyer]

I don't. No.

[Caller/Inquirer]

No. All right.

[Jay Dyer]

I mean, I think it's just. It's obvious that there are legends what the delineator is. I mean, I don't know. There's no easy answer to that. Test this. What's up? Oh, you guys remind me. Yeah, there's a bunch of super chats I gotta catch up here. Non Fake Blake. $10. People in this evangelical online espace care more about dollars and truth. For us, it is about eternal life. It's not easy. Their business appeal is a bare minimum salvation. Thus, their only hope is to have ecumenism. Yeah, we talked about that last night. That's the model that Peter Drucker, who's the big, big daddy of evangelical megachurch stuff, who was not even a Christian, he created this business model and he said for the business model to be successful, it has to be ecumenist. It has to have no dogmas, because then you're just excluding people. Test this. What's up?

[Caller/Inquirer]

Sorry, can you hear me?

[Jay Dyer]

Yeah.

[Caller/Inquirer]

All right. There's something I want to mention, and I'm a catechumen from, like a strong IFB backgrounds. You know that Liberty University, back when our grandparents were a mission, you know, seminary. And it's specifically kind of with that Jim Bob debate you had with the scriptural preservation. You mentioned that verse that they always bring up with the not one jot or tittle would pass away. And I often like to refer to it like the. Even the Hebrew text, you know, the Old Testament is perfectly preserved from when it was written. But, you know, I know you say you're not a textual scholar, but it seems like a very easy kill shot for that V specifically. What.

[Jay Dyer]

What's the kill shot exactly?

[Caller/Inquirer]

The whole idea that not one jotter tittle so specifically every single letter, you know, down to the letter preservation for the Old Testament is held up until today, but with the actual way it was preserved, it's kind of hard to make that kind of claim.

[Jay Dyer]

Yeah, there was just so many things that were mentioned in the debate. And you'll. If you end up doing a lot of debates, you'll realize that you can't address everything that a person brings up, especially when it's like not formal and just constant back and forth. And you have to choose in the heat of the moment which things you want to respond to and which things are more important so that you don't let the opponent take you down a rabbit trail. And you'll notice when I do debates, almost always I stick to two or three key issues that I never let go. And that's because there's a lot of different tactics and techniques that people can do in debates to get around issues and challenges. And one of those is to deflect over into other topics and then go down a rabbit trail. And so I always bring it back to the thing, maybe three things that are not answered. And that's because that really, I think, emphasizes the main faults in the person's position and it doesn't allow them. Because I've done debates for a long time. I know all the tricks and the snaky tactics that people are going to do. And one of the easiest is obvious that's easy to spot is when people try to go off into some other tangent to get you deflected away from the thing where they don't have much to say or they're weak or they can't answer it. That's why you have to call out two quoque is because most of the time when people are doing it, to quote Quay, it's because they don't want to answer the question you just ask them. And a 2kwek way is not an internal critique. It's two different things. Beef salt. Rabbi Huevos rancheros is more correct than you. Exactly. Sterling, $5. What's up, Blackarooni? $10. Have you seen his Hispanic pentas? I don't know what that is. I was raised as a Dominican Penty. Is this a group of people? I don't know what that is. They found that a Hispanic church in the US and one of the pastors showed a picture.

[Caller/Inquirer]

Whoa.

[Jay Dyer]

Of a young unalived person that was sacrificed to. To Satan. To Pepel for people. Or is Pepple something Hispanic Pentis. I can't. Are you saying that's a cult? I don't understand what you're saying. Let's see. By the way, this is a shout out to Guster. I did bring up a bunch of the. The links that Guster sent. I told you guys we were going to.

[Caller/Inquirer]

We.

[Jay Dyer]

We were going to cover his links because he old school ortho bro for whatever reason knows all of. Maybe he was in the mega churches. I don't know. But he knows all about the history of the mega churches. And this is a thing he sent from a guy called Todd Wilson. I don't know anything about this. The leadership podcast. And this is about personal growth and basically like the business model of the church. So we're not going to go into this whole podcast. But you guys can watch this if you want. This is what these evangelical types are being taught, right? So the Ruslan types, the gave in Ortland types, they watch these dudes to and redeem Zoomer. These kind like they watch these people to figure out marketing strategies to create their business churches. But you said there's a cult called Hispanic Pinties. No, Dominican Pinties. You mean like Dominican Republic? Are you talking about the Dominican order? Dominican pepsis. All that gives me is bad behaving. Misbehaving. Bad Dominican misbehaving. I don't know what Dominican Penti panties. I don't know what that is. Dog. Dominican Penty. And there's a Hispanic church. I don't know. Lucas, $5. Thank you, Jay. I forgot that YouTube doesn't allow the that word. It's hard to know what they doing though. And I'm not sure I'm interested in getting into debates. Thank you for sharing your knowledge. Appreciate that, man. Oh, Pentecostal. Black Aron says Dominican Pentecostal. The pastor showed a charred un alived person to hype up people. Oh, against spiritual warfare. Interesting. So you wasn't talking about these bad bitches? How the modern church is shaped. Business church. Okay, here's another one that Guster said we need to check out. This one is called. This is about the implosion of the mega churches.

[Documentary Narrator]

There's nothing you can do to make God stop loving you.

[Caller/Inquirer]

Because God's love is not based on who you are. It's based on who he is.

[Documentary Narrator]

You have to know who God made you to be.

[Jay Dyer]

That's your identity.

[Documentary Narrator]

This book sold 50 million copies. It became the bestselling hardcover nonfiction book in American history. Rick Warren's face was on Time magazine, Newsweek, and every major Christian publication. Presidents called him for advice. And nobody talks about the churches it destroyed. Between 2003 and 2010, thousands of American congregations adopted his program. Some of them grew, many of them split. And across the country, people who had worshiped in the same pews for decades found themselves pushed out the door. This is the story they didn't print on the book jacket. In 2002, Rick Warren was already a superstar pastor. His church in Orange County, California had grown from a Bible study in his living room to a megachurch with 15,000 weekly attendees. But the Purpose Driven Life changed everything. The book was simple. 40 chapters, 40 days. One promise you would discover God's purpose for your life. It sold a million copies in four months, then 5 million, then 10 million. By 2007, it had sold over 30 million copies in 56 languages. Publishers Weekly called it the best selling hard damn.

[Jay Dyer]

I remember too back in the 2000s or whatever, like you would go in in thrift stores, you know, book hunting and you would see like 20 copies of the Celestine prophecy and 20 copies of purpose Driven Life. I remember every evangelical had this freaking. Because I was already out of evangelicalism when this came out. I was a trad cat and I remember like you see this stupid book

[Documentary Narrator]

everywhere, dude cover nonfiction book in American publishing history. Oprah featured it. Corporations bought it for their employees. The military distributed it to troops. Even secular bookstores couldn't keep it on the shelves. Warren became America's pastor.

[Jay Dyer]

The military distributed this book to troops. That's crazy. Damn, dude. This really is. The official American civic religion is mega churchianity.

[Documentary Narrator]

Hurricane Katrina business church devastated New Orleans. He mobilized thousands of churches for relief efforts. When world leaders gathered at Davos, he was there. When Barack Obama needed someone to give the invocation at his he went to Davos. What? When Barack Obama needed someone to give the invocation at his inauguration in 2009 for relief efforts.

[Jay Dyer]

Well, actually that makes sense cuz he's in the cfr. People forget that Rick Warren was in

[Documentary Narrator]

the council Foreign relations world leaders gathered at Davos, he was there. When Barack Obama needed someone to give the invocation at his inauguration in 2009, he called Rick Warren Saddleback Church became The model everyone wanted to copy. While pastors flew in from around the world to study Warren's methods, seminary professors required his books. Denominations restructured their training programs around his principles.

[Jay Dyer]

Seminary. Could you imagine reading Rick Warren's book at seminary? Don't read that. St. John Chrysostom. We got Purpose Driven Life. Dude. What?

[Documentary Narrator]

The Purpose Driven movement wasn't just about individual spiritual growth anymore. It had become a blueprint for church transformation. Warren's previous book, the Purpose Driven Church.

[Jay Dyer]

And I'm even blown away at how business church was actually 10 times more business church than I thought it was.

[Caller/Inquirer]

Wow.

[Documentary Narrator]

Ready. Sold over a million copies to pastors. Now, with the Purpose Driven Life reaching ordinary believers, he had both the leaders and the congregations ready for change. By 2005, Warren was training 400,000 pastors through his website, his conferences.

[Jay Dyer]

Every time I hear Saddleback. What's that gay movie with Jake Gyllenhaal, Brokeback Mountain Church. I think a Brokeback Mountain broke back church is.

[Documentary Narrator]

So Saddleback pulled out months in advance. His peace plan promised to mobilize a billion Christians to solve the world's biggest problems. This wasn't just a successful book. This was a revolution. But the book came with something else. Something most readers didn't know about when they picked it up at Barnes and Noble. It came with a program, and that program would split churches from California to Carolina. The program was called 40 Days of Purpose. It was a turnkey church campaign that came in a box for $39.95 churches got everything sermon.

[Jay Dyer]

It was a marketing scheme. So the Purpose Driven life had a $40 thing for. For 40 days. You get the. This is Don Lapree on a massive scale, Dude. Everybody's ripping off Don Lapre, man. And poor Donna Prix. I think Don Laprix got unalived. Dude. Speaking of unalived, your boy Don Laprix was unalived. We got a lot of young, young pups that don't know old Don Lapree. Who was Don Lapree? Well, if you were in the 90s, just like with all the mother horrible infomercials, right? Remember Susan Powder? What was her thing? Stop the insanity. With Susan Powder, that crazy flat, flat top woman. Why mom with a flat top that was fat and helped you get skinny. Get a flat top. I'm not joking, by the way. Only on my live streams do you go from rick Warren to St. John Chrysostom to Susan Powder and Don LaPree. Stop the insanity. So you would be. You would be partying. You've been drinking Zimas all night. You're half drunk at your buddies. After the party. Hanging out on a Friday night, you fall asleep on the couch. In the 90s, it's 1995. You wake up groggy as two in the morning. And after the TV, this TV's still playing. And this is what's on right now.

[Caller/Inquirer]

Lose up to £10. Diets don't work now.

[Sleep Number Advertiser]

I lost 133 pounds, but I didn't go for a fat person to a thin person.

[Jay Dyer]

That's not. Whoa, dude, look at that.

[Caller/Inquirer]

What happened?

[Jay Dyer]

I went from an unfit person to a fit person.

[Caller/Inquirer]

And there's.

[Jay Dyer]

She would actually be attractive if she didn't have that stupid Chen o' Connor haircut. She would have been all right. You know what I'm saying? Look at these women are like, I want that.

[Caller/Inquirer]

I want that for me.

[Jay Dyer]

And then you. You're saying, I don't want to watch that. So you change the channel. Oh, guess what happens when you change the channel. Don lapre. Video is the most powerful form of media on the face of the planet. In fact, television has proven this year after year, decade after decade. If you're not using video to promote your product or your service, you're missing out on the Internet.

[Documentary Narrator]

The way the.

[Jay Dyer]

This is not the original, though. I want the original. Don Lapre. Here we go. No, this is 2002. I want 90s, bro. I want 90s. Don Laprix. I don't want this recent crap. Here we go. Hello, I'm Don lapre. I'm so excited that you decided to become a sales representative for the reminder service. I'm going to walk you through 50, 15 ways to make all the sales you ever wanted to make.

[Caller/Inquirer]

If you want to make 10 sales

[Jay Dyer]

a day, all of the online E Grifter bros, Especially in the red pill sphere, dude, they're all wannabe Don LaPrese. Dude. I want the original ads, though. I don't want all this stuff. Here we go. Infomercials.

[Caller/Inquirer]

Realize how.

[Jay Dyer]

So you don't want to see the Susan Powder infomercial. So you switch over to the other channel on cable, and boom, there's Don lapree.

[Caller/Inquirer]

Once you realize how much money you can make doing this, you can't stop thinking about it. And when I get to meet people who got my making money package and then did what I said, and now they're making incredible amounts of money because of what I showed them. It's the most incredible feeling. Especially. Especially when you see how much their lives have changed right now. As we said, we're going to do 50,000 our first month of the year.

[Jay Dyer]

So now, what was Don LPR's model, for those that don't know? Placing tiny ads in classified magazines about how to place tiny ads and classified magazines to get paid. Whoa. And what is Rick Warren's model? $40 to get the full course on how to teach people.

[Documentary Narrator]

The $40 course outlines small group guides, marketing materials, banners, bulletin inserts, even the graphics for their websites. Pastors didn't need to write a single sermon. They didn't need to create a single Bible study. They just needed to follow the script. Warren's organization, now called Purpose Driven Ministries, provided training videos. They offered coaching calls, they created an online community where pastors could share success stories and troubleshoot problems. More than 30,000 churches signed up in the first three years. Think about that number. 30,000 congregations in cities and small towns. Baptist churches, Methodist churches, Presbyterian churches, non denominational churches, even some Catholic parishes, all following the same program, all preaching the same messages, all moving toward the same model. And that model had a name. Seeker sensitive. The idea wasn't new. Warren had learned it from men like Robert Schuller and Bill Hibbles.

[Jay Dyer]

By the way, this is how all of these people became so effeminate, because their churches are modeled on what's called a seeker sensitive model of church membership, meaning don't do anything, say anything related to repentance, changing your life, dogma, anything like that, because we don't want to scare them off. Now, after a few decades of this nonsense, all of these effeminate evangelicals are now reflecting this in their seeker sensitive, ortho, bro, mad bad people line of argumentation.

[Documentary Narrator]

Jeweler and Bill Hibbles, pastors who had built megachurches by rethinking everything about Sunday morning, they asked a simple question. Why don't unchurched people come to church? The answer seemed obvious. Traditional churches felt foreign to outsiders. The hymns were old. The language was religious. The buildings looked like museums. If you wanted to reach modern people, you needed a modern approach. Warren took this philosophy and packaged it. He taught pastors to think like marketers. Identify.

[Jay Dyer]

And this was from Peter Drucker, as we saw in the last stream your target audience.

[Documentary Narrator]

He even gave his target a name. Saddleback Sam, a professional man in his 30s or 40s, married, kids, too busy for church, but searching for meaning. Design everything for Sam. The music, the messages, the parking lot, the coffee bar. Yes, the coffee bar. Remove anything that might make Sam uncomfortable. Ancient.

[Jay Dyer]

I remember the first time I went to a It's A Presbyterian church in Nashville. And I was there with my ex girlfriend back in the. It was like 2004 or five somewhere in there. And my buddies and I, we drove up to Nashville. We were hanging out with my ex girlfriend from high school and she went to the. This is the church that the Jars of Clay dude went to before he went faking gay or whatever he is now. So we went to this church and this is right when I become a trad cat. So it was like 2003 or 4, and we went to this Protestant PCA church in Nashville actually. And we walked in and there was a giant like Starbucks barista coffee bar. And I'm like, a coffee bar in the narthex of the church is the first time I'd ever seen that. But that actually comes out of Rick Warren's thing gone.

[Documentary Narrator]

Religious symbols hidden, long prayers shortened.

[Jay Dyer]

Who is the Jars of Clay dude, by the way? I forget that guy's name. Didn't he go full. And I. I knew it was a bad sign because I went. I remember seeing. I saw Jars of Clay in concert around the same time because I still like some of the evangelical goober music at the time. And I remember it was a bad sign because on the. During the concert they played a special message from Bono asking for money. And I was like, oh, dude, this is the worst. Who's the Jars of Clay dude? The. The Jar Jar. Jar Jars of Clay.

[Documentary Narrator]

Misa can't swim for 40 days.

[Jay Dyer]

Jar jars of Clay dude. That's funny. There's a lot of angles you could take with Jar Jars of Clay. If I can't swim after 40 date Dan Hazeltine. That's him. Yeah. So he went. So he used to go to the PCA church in Nashville, which was my ex girlfriend's church. This is before. Or anything to do with. I didn't know anything about orthodoxy in 2003 or 4. And this was the church where they had the coffee bar. And then a few years later, Dan becomes an LGBTQ ally. Shocker, right? But Even in the 90s when I was hanging out with people because I. When I became evangelical in 1997 and 8, I had a bunch of friends that were in the music scene and they were friends with all the Nashville Christian rock and roll Christian artist people. So I got to meet and hang out with some of these people. I never met this Dan dude. I did meet. And I went to a Bible study with Mac from third Day. So I've actually hung out with the third Day dude one time. What's his name, Mac Powell, I think. And I've met not a lot. I've met like a handful of these Christian evangelical rockers over the years. But it always, Even in the 90s, there was all these whispers that like, well, you know, all these evangelical rockers, they're all gay, right? And I don't know that Dan Hasseltine himself is gay. But I'm saying there was all these rumors in the 90s that like all the. A lot, not all, a lot of the people were Skittles. And remember Jennifer Knapp? She was like the biggest Christian thing for like 2,000. 1, 2, 3. Then she gets invited to Lila Fair and then she comes out as Skittles and it's like, what the heck? Well, how are all of these, Remember? And the same thing with the Caveman's Call. Remember the Caveman's Call, dude, the biggest Calvinist band. And remember Dan Hazeltine was going to Calvinist church. They're Calvinists for like 10 years. And then they turn Skittles.

[Caller/Inquirer]

And then the guy that signed them left. And so then all their budget money,

[Jay Dyer]

the day their record dropped, his guy,

[Caller/Inquirer]

their guy was gone. So then all their budget radio money went to Jars of Clay.

[Jay Dyer]

Jars of Clay's Jars of Clay Now. Yeah.

[Caller/Inquirer]

And then all of a sudden they got dropped because all of a sudden he goes, dude, we try to call

[Jay Dyer]

and no one pick up. Like, no one knew they were signed anymore. So I know what you mean from that story. Wow, that's crazy.

[Caller/Inquirer]

Jars of Clay. I haven't heard that in Name It Forever. But I mean, but like, you know, boom. You know, they got all the radio money, they became an actor.

[Jay Dyer]

I met Butch Walker through Jeremy Pop off. I thought that was going to be an actually interesting video. It didn't say anything at all. So let me think of what. What is that? Pca. I think it's pca. I think it's the big PCA church number. Let's see if it still has a coffee shop. That's not it. This, by the way, is like the mega rich area of Nashville. Christ Presbyterian. It might be that one. That's it. I think that's it. Christ Presbyterian, Cool Springs. I want to see if they still have a big coffee bar. I don't know if that's it or not. Anyway, it doesn't matter. Who cares? What am I doing? Let's get back to Rig 1 offering

[Documentary Narrator]

plates, replace with boxes in the back. Make church feel like the rest of Sam's week. Professional, practical, positive, non threatening. It worked at Saddleback. Why wouldn't it work everywhere? But there was something Warren's training materials mentioned only briefly. Albert. Something pastors wouldn't fully understand until they were months into the transformation. Not everyone in their churches was Saddleback, Sam. The changes started small first.

[Jay Dyer]

I'm sorry for keep forgetting the super chats. Groovy banana. $50. I was raised Baptist, but I've been listening to you and the others and I've been in questioning what's true. I'm reading Orthodoxy, Religion, Future. I'm taking it seriously. Thank you for all these videos. Do you have book recommendations? Well, yeah. I mean, we just recommended early on. Life in Christ by St. Nicholas Cabasilos. That's a classic. It's a good one. Neopalamite. James Volant was critiquing you on tag. Do you want to do a response? Nope, don't care. Floyd, $5. I'm struggling, struggling to just understand the distinction between Christ's body as the church and the Eucharist. Well, that's why it's called the Mysteries. So again, actually you would like this book too, because this whole book is actually about that. So that's providential. 18 disabled says for $5 you the Ayatollah of Wigsantheum. Now go and slay Queen. I like that. He sent a sleigh commission to me. Slay Queen. Brock Bush says, I saw a UFO in Northwest Florida as a kid. It was a glowing saucer with a dome and rings of light. That's a light, bright boy. It flew over our car probably 90 miles an hour. Weird thing is we remember it being different colors. Was it demonic? Perhaps. ZK get the book. Bad post by, er. Chamberlain. It looks interesting. I think I've heard of that book. There was another book that came in the 2000s, very similar to that. That would be interesting. Timothy. $10. I was the caller. But you can go further to those that are separated from the Orthodox Church and those that are confusing people. Anathema. They actually become persecutors of the church. Who are the killing? The priests that destroy the temples and torture brothers. Well, they may not be as extreme as, you know, the Ottomans killing people or whatever or Isis or what. But I mean it's, it's, it's. Yeah, it's spiritually subverting and confusing people. And again, a lot of these people, they don't know any better, but they're also tempted with the grift. So we have to be patient. Try to remember that these people are. They're in a. They're Their own worst enemies. Timothy, $5. Anathema. Anathema. Christ is king. Muslims do not Christians worship same God. We don't define ourselves by what we're not. Correct. These people do. Yeah, their whole thing is like we are defined by online anti Islamianity. Jay is our new black Ayatollah. Agreed. Thank you again. Most wanted, $5. I've been attending orthodox liturgy. My wife and three almost about to have four kids. Congratulations. Thank you for bringing me to the truth. Hey, that's awesome, man. Epistemic Anthony. Appreciate that guys. I'm not going to be reading $1 Super Chats anymore, but I appreciate it. Journey of Abundance, $5. Adam Livingston on the Swan Bitcoin channel is a big fan. Awesome. Yeah, I like Adam as well. And I need to Swine. Bitcoin needs to renew my referral link because it seems to not be working. I have to reach out to them. Raj, $5. Channel 5 made a new documentary about the Swedish sisters from MAD. Oh, interesting. Well, I definitely want to watch that because that was a classic mysterious MK Ultra situation that the BBC caught on camera. Well, they eventually did a documentary, Madison the Fast Lane, which appears to be something related to in cultural. In Cultural Assassins, with those two weird twin sisters who were actually sent to assassinate somebody. And you're saying that there's a new documentary? Definitely got to watch that. We need to go back and do some of those conspiracy classics like Madness and the Fast Lane. Madness and Manslaughter. Channel thought. What's Channel 5 anyway? Is that something British in the UK or something? Oh, this? Is this British or is this like Australian? What is Channel 5? Where is it? Dude, I don't. I don't see it.

[Caller/Inquirer]

A short while later, the women were spotted on motorway CCTV by transit police.

[Jay Dyer]

This is the original. Maybe I gotta go somewhere other than YouTube to get it.

[Caller/Inquirer]

Ah.

[Jay Dyer]

Oh, it's a show. I can only access that in the UK. That's gay, dude. Watch it on YouTube. Let's see.

[Caller/Inquirer]

It was an ordinary day of filming.

[Jay Dyer]

That's a trailer. I want to watch the actual thing. Is it on apple tv? Okay.

[Caller/Inquirer]

It was an ordinary day of filming.

[Documentary Narrator]

Until it wasn't.

[Caller/Inquirer]

We need ambulance.

[Jay Dyer]

Two possible fatals.

[Caller/Inquirer]

A shocking turn of events.

[Jay Dyer]

I've never filmed anything like this before.

[Documentary Narrator]

With an unbelievable ending.

[Caller/Inquirer]

Twisted sisters, madness and manslaughter.

[Jay Dyer]

What? Okay, it looks like I could find that via Apple. So it's a two part Part two. Appreciate that. Yeah, I'll definitely watch that. And we need to go back and read. I wonder if we get away with doing part one or if the BBC will or it's. Maybe it's not BBC. It's like channel one or whatever. Will they copyright strike it? I don't know. This looks like some random channel that put it up. So maybe you get away with. Dire wire says Jay. What? Oh, it just went away. Where'd it go? What do you think about Toby Mack? What about grits I used to love? I don't really. I mean, Toby Mack was kind of corny to me, but I did like grit songs. My life be like, ooh. But I don't know anything about. I mean, I know that the DC talk, the black dude got in trouble for trying to hump everybody. But I don't know anything about Toby Mack. Dostoyevsky, $2. Thank you for everything. You're special. Toby Max, the original Christian wigger dude. That's a unique little sub genre of the wigger, bro. You got the dang mainstream worker and then you got like a Christian wigger sort of ethos, kind of its own little niche. You know what I'm saying? And that's Toby Mack right there. Y' all listen to the OC super tones right now. Dostoevsky. Thank you everything. You're special. Thank you, special special ed. Fire Watt with me. $10. Crisis risen. Jay, thank you. Indeed he is. Thank you. World D's $5. It's a funny thing to ask Baptist, especially baptist pastors, if John the Baptist is actually the denomination. Most of them will say yes. Yeah, that's the trail of blood theology, which is. It's funny in the Phil Fudge. Did you see Russell Brand's new book and Griff is promoted on Tucker? He would fit right in with online protestant business church group. I saw he had a book with a cross that was house flies. And I'm like, what in the heck is that, dude? Pasha Nami. What's up? Became a member. Sterling, $5. Thank you. Redbrook. $10. Some of my family are evangelical. I'm orthodox. How do I speak and have the conversations with those that are not. Like we said earlier in the stream, I would say just give them a book. Tell them watch this documentary. Don't aggressively try to argue with them. Take a passive sort of approach. Not passive aggressive. Passive. Adam bingo is thus an Islamic dog whistle. Yes. Apparently my life you like is a great song. Good fortune to you. On next conquest against the Islamianity. Here it's Scorpio. $10. Thank you so much. Red Shinobi, $5. Daily Wire is trash but the movie that what is a woman is gold. Yeah, I mean, I'm sure that they have some good content. It dropped at the right time. Red Shinobi one year on two month subscription day gyre, $8. Watching Lutherans dance around the Book of Concord, but not being equal to Scripture, but totally authoritative. Yeah, I mean, it pretty much is the same with all. All the Protestant confessions. It ends up being the same. Circle crash meta religion, $10. David Wood treated Jay very harshly. Even though Jay says he likes God, logic, IP and etc. Disagreeing with somebody doesn't mean that you dislike them. They make it personal. Well, I mean, that's all they have to rely on, is character assassination. So they're just David Wood, that whole sphere, they're just like the Muslims. And David Wood's going to debate Andrew about me, but won't debate me about his fake church. Alpena, $5. Me at Smoothie King. I'll take one. Sheikh Ibn Dyer, please. Exactly. Easy on the muta with the Shia tonight. And it says the same thing. Beef salt says a lot of wiggery going on at Ruslan's. Rhythm Charge. Kyle Bircher. Kyler Birch. $50. Thank you. Unfortunately, all of this is pride. If truth isn't a person, but it's a bunch of propositions that you pick and choose, then Christianity stops being relational, even though evangelicals always speak of it. In this. Yeah. In this relational way becomes a spiritual analytical philosophy where every man is just his own guru and thus humility dies. Exactly. And no better example than Calvinism. Most wanted. I've been attending Orthodox literature. No, we read that. Excuse me. Tingu. 50. Thank you so much. Gotta go. Thank you for the call. Much love, Jay. Jamie, in the chat. Thank you, Tingu. Much appreciated. Al Sinarek. $5 coin A is the best language. Flashed $5. Dude, you gotta watch part two of Ruslan's conversation with the Oriental Orthodox that he uploaded. It's actually a bloodbath. He is a fallacy Machine gun. I don't doubt it, because when I debated Ruslan in the second half of that interview that he put it behind a paywall. It was a bloodbath. And I. I mean, I'm like, literally, like four times in a row. I'm like, ruin. That's a fallacy. And he. It doesn't even register with him. He's like, so Alpena, Is Orthodoxy the least subverted sect? Well, I believe the promise of the. Of Christ of the church, so. Yeah, but that doesn't mean that there's no subversion orthodox there. Absolutely there is. You have enjoyed entire Jesuit universities like Fordham dedicated to subverting orthodoxy. And by the way, David Wood is a graduate of Fordham. Luis, $5. Do you have a video explaining the process view on music and movies thinking they're bad or clothing with skulls is bad? You mean like death to the world? I think a lot of Protestants are just superstitious when it comes to symbology and they act like ritual magic goobers and they think that like a skull is necessarily automatically satanic. I mean, it's retarded. So they're just doing a version of word concept fallacy, but with symbols. It's like when, you know, Baptist grandma says I saint. The icon and it had a halo. That's the Hindu sun God imagery. It's like it's signifying the uncreated energies, deifying the saint. It's the uncreated light. It's not the sun God, but I think the Hindu thing, that was a sun God. The same thing. Well, yeah, but they're not the same thing. They're different. Big boy, $10. The strategy of calling all the ortho bros evil Islamists is so hilariously short sighted. Yeah, I don't think it's going to work in the long run. People will just see all the Muslim debates and immediately know that all the Zio bros are thus pathetic liars. Absolutely. Why would I have debated all the top Muslims and gone on podcasts with Ridvon and Wood debunking Islam as a Muslim collaborator? It's just so stupid. But, but again, they are actually relying on their 80 IQ Muslim convert audience. Right. That's. That's who they're talking. They're not talking to ortho bros. They're shoring up their culture against us in their cult. Just like Christian Prince's army of Adiq Muslim converts. They don't think in terms of fallacies and argumentation. They think in emotion. They're emo. So they respond to what? Why do they Dyer say that? Muslim. Correct. That mean he Muslim. J. Dyer said Muslim. Correct. Therefore he Muslim. It's so stupid. It's like you're. But you're talking to people that, that are like Adiq Noah says Schrodinger's ecumenism. Protestants only view Orthodox as Christians if the Orthodox isn't attacking Protestant doctrine. Exactly right. That's why there's. That's. As Cleave pointed out, that's why they're not attacking Orthodoxy. They're attacking ortho bros. But in reality, they just Disagree with orthodoxy. Zombie, $20. I listened to the dude named Alton Johnson. Oh, that black dude? Yeah. I tried to get him to debate. He wouldn't come do it. He is the black dude on X that has the laser eyes. Pfp. Yep. He and Gay P spent an hour tone policing and crying about the words that were used. JP said the same thing that Ruslan said. Jay has to repent. Yeah, exactly. Like I'm gonna repent to these dudes. This is so gay. Notice, like, they don't believe in confession to a priest, even though they bring a schismatic priest on their dumb show. And then Ruslan demands that I publicly repent to him. I thought you don't believe in confession to people. MKG, $30. You have many in your corner. Our prayers are with you. Thank you, John. $5. You are killing it. They won't debate you. Make a chat GPT version of Hess to debate you, just for shits and giggles. Who's hess? Rudolph Hess? MKG$14. What is true piety? It is how well you can signal. Signal it on Twitter. That's true piety. Spit on the west. $2. In 1800, John Johnathan Edward John Edwards. John Edwards became their bishop. Who? Who's they? Who's John Edwards? You mean Jonathan Edwards, the Puritan? No days off. $10. Don't think agreeing with a Muslim. Do you not think agreeing with a Muslim will give them enemy power? No, I think it shows intellectual honesty. If Jake the Muslim metaphysician says that the theophanies and orthodox theology are uncreated, that's correct. I'm not going to say no, Jake, you're wrong. They're created because he's Muslim. This is so stupid.

[Caller/Inquirer]

It.

[Jay Dyer]

Anthony, $5. What are your thoughts on orthodox Christian academia? You're not going to be welcome. I mean, there's only certain sectors where you could probably get. Like if you find some somewhat traditionalist Roman Catholic school, maybe you could get through. I don't know. But I mean, I mean, it was made clear to me in the 2000s by the Academic strata where I was trying to become an academic. You're not going to be welcome here as a straight white male, so you can do with that what you want. Tingu says for 20. Have you covered Mike Winger? I've DM Mike Winger. In fact, I tried to get him a couple times to debate and he ended up just blocking me. So. And he. He took huge offense for me daring to offer to debate. You understand these people, they're so Fragile and passive aggressive soy that they lose their shit if you offer to debate them. I used to watch Mike Winger. Thought he was intelligent. But I don't watch him anymore. Well, because he's not. Mead's World, $5. In Genesis 4. 8, the Orthodox study Bible cites the Masoretic text. This makes it hard to read the why? The notes of this. Of the study Bible citing the Masoretic. So what? Graham, $5. Dr. Pooper, $5. The Pro Germanic ortho, bro. Constantine hated pop Christianity. What? Who's. Are you talking about somebody today? Are you talking about Constantine the emperor? I don't know what you're talking. Son of Salazar, $5. Keep pressure on these clowns, okay? Tweet bomb, $10. No more of this charitable ecumenism. No more calling everybody Christians. It's only Orthodox. Yep. Fernando Wigsantium Rising Kolob Wigas ain't got nothing. Forgive your moms. Exactly. Flavus, $20. Hello, listeners. Cringe Core rap song slaps. Of course it does. It was great. They impressed me with the song they came up with. And just. Just out of putting pressure on these boys, let's play it. Just in honor of Ruslan and Wig Xanthium, we're gonna play our prized rap dis once again. Y' all ready for it right here.

[Caller/Inquirer]

I need seven figures. I need seven figures,

[Jay Dyer]

bro.

[Documentary Narrator]

I got the following.

[Caller/Inquirer]

I got 28, 000. I got 200000 on tick tock. How do I monetize these people? You know what I mean?

[Jay Dyer]

How do I monetize?

[Caller/Inquirer]

I like money and I like shoes how do I build a business? I don't really care about how many

[Jay Dyer]

followers I have from an Oriental to a boring rental wigger I'm a boost these proudest things forever done by my merch this my ministry, my church I'm blessing God oh, JB please don't save me I've been saving for a yacht Every itty bitty Whoopi got me fascinated Protected my pride it's my duty like Mufasa baby my testimony get me money Better watch a wigger I'll be back for more super chats like I'm Schwarzenegger I need to monetize these so fight Christians I need some money from them that's my mission and if I'm coming up against real Christians I run like hell not to take an L, A J Don't make me play myself I'm here A ticket for the dinner but bell this my meal ticket Please don't make Me fail. Please, please, please, please. Bro. I got the following.

[Caller/Inquirer]

I got 28 000. I got 200000 on tick tock. How do I monetize these people? You know what I mean?

[Jay Dyer]

How do I monetize these people?

[Caller/Inquirer]

I like money and I like shoes. How do I build a business? I don't really care about how many follow followers I have. I need seven figures.

[Jay Dyer]

By the way, those are all real Ruslan quotes. No, that's. Hello, listener. That's not me. Whosoever. $10. What do you think about little season revelation 20? I don't think about it because it's nothing to do with Orthodox Christian Christianity. TIP. 8. $5. Tyrants create the conditions and impetus for revolution. The error papal supremacy of one man holding absolute power was always going to produce the aggrieved clergyman. Like Luther. Absolutely. This is what St. Justin Popovich says. The Pope was the first Protestant. He made himself a Pope and then led to the personality cult church which we see today. Absolutely. Von Da3j. I recently watched Mahaland Drive again. It made me wonder. The elites have plans to make humans into pets. I think they already view it that way. But perhaps. Element to Davisto $3. Crisis risen. Why do the GOC channels call Rokor Surgeon? Because they're schismatic. Because they are tools of the CIA even though they're too dumb to know day gyre. No, we did that. I got it. I'm starting to get a crick in my neck. Dude, we gotta. We gotta call it a night soon. Let me make sure I got all these up. JT says for $5. I'm currently forcing my wife to watch your Quasimodo freestyle song while she nurses our son. We are back. Good. That's how we do it. This is how we do it. I need seven figures. I need seven figures. Prairie brother. Prairie Ortho Bro. $3. I went to my friend's Roman Catholic service the other day. I thought I walked into a Pentecostal church. I don't understand why Roman Catholics don't get that liturgy is also theology. Well, they've lost the liturgy. That's what I'm trying to say is like reverent masses are unfortunately not the norm anymore. Anonymous. $5. Jay are gonna watch the Twisted Yoga. I think yes. Jamie is gonna and I are gonna watch this documentary. So. Yes, I've heard of this. I recommended it to Jamie when she did her ET Phone Ohm stream. There's a super demon Hindu tantra yoga cult. Yes, I've heard this. Clap My cheeks from up on Hot. Well, that's what that's all about, dude. Vincent, $5. Did you see that Bob from Speaker's Corner is going to talk to AP about ecumenism. It's all piety signaling. Yep. Well, I had a huge argument with Bob the Builder on discord in like 2020 because his whole thing is like, church doesn't matter, just debate the Muslims with apologetics. And I'm like, sorry, dude, I like your, you know, I like your idea of doing apologetics, but you can't do apologetics without the church and all these people want to do that. And I mean, I don't even think Ridvan's orthodox. Keezy, $2 is David Bentley Hart, spook, kook or crook? I don't know, but he's heterodox. JDR clip wave $10. Oh, here we go again. Yep, every time. What's up? Became member Protho Andor $10. Mazzi Ronaldo or Eric Cantona? Well, I don't follow soccer, but because Eric Cantona used to email me and DM me, we used to have some theology because he used to be in a theology. I don't know if he is now, but he used to be in a theology. And when I had my old blog, he started commenting and I was like, is that really Eric Cantona? And then we started DMing, I think on Facebook back in like 2008. And at the time, if I recall, he was a Calvinist, but he, he found some of the arguments about Sola Scriptura and all that kind of stuff somewhat interesting, maybe halfway interested in it. And I mean, we didn't talk a lot. We probably had maybe, I don't know, five or six lengthy dms back and forth about the. And he used to comment on the blog. So I guess out of all those people, Eric Cantona, even though I don't know anything about soccer players, so I don't know, I think he was the first famous person on the Internet that I ever interacted with. Groovy banana 20. Thank you for all the book recommendation. Do you have any recommendations regarding baptism or the gifts, holy spirit and tongues? I mean we've done several videos debunking charismaticism orthodoxy in the religion. The future debunks it. Now I'm being 100 serious. Absolutely 100% serious. Used to, I mean we weren't talking on the phone. It's not like I was had like hours of conversation with Eric Cantona, but like it was just like DMS and website comments he was a pretty every. He was an occasional commenter on my old blog, and it was really him. And we had some. I can't remember if it's Facebook or emails back and forth back in the day, but. Let me see if there's. He also might have found the. The movie stuff interesting, too, because he was in. The Elizabeth movie. Doesn't he play a Jesuit assassin in the movie? Erica kenton, eric. Maybe he. Maybe he kept that private. See what this is about. What the hell's that about? Yeah, there does. It doesn't look like there's a lot of public stuff about any of his. Religious beliefs. Maybe he just kept it private. But, I mean, I do remember him specifically saying that he found Calvinism convincing, but may. Maybe it was a passing intellectual interest or. I don't know. But we did have that conversation. I'm not lying. Why would I lie about that? I don't know. Know anything about soccer. What, like I'm gonna just make up some random. Oh, yes, I talked to a random. A soccer player. Like, I don't need to make up lies. Like, that's just a nonsense lie. So I don't appreciate being called a liar either, with. You don't have. You don't have any basis to think or say that I'm lying. You missed my super chat. De palma gravy banana. $20. Thank you for the book recommendation. Do you have any recommendation regarding baptism? Oh, we did that one. Basil, $5. Jay, would you or Andrew or any other people. Wait, Group make a media group? Yeah, just make a media group. I mean, bro, that takes like, Daily Wire was hundreds of millions of dollars, bro. Charles says for $10, they twerking at Rhythm Church. Absolutely. About the Palma. $10. Jay, I hope you're well. Could you give me thoughts on the Vulgate? I mean, it was the normative Bible for the Latin Church for a good while, but I don't. It's not the normative church or Bible for the Orthodox Church. So I don't. I don't really have much to say. And no, I'm not. I don't have any videos on it. By the way, people say, why didn't you reach out to God Logic? I mean, so we had several of our friends already friends with God Logic, who've been trying to kind of sway him in the direction of Orthodoxy for a long time. And when I asked God Logic a few weeks ago if he wanted to do a debate, he said, no, he's not interested in that. Which is fine, but it's like, okay, then why are you sending people to synagogues? It doesn't make any sense. So, Hank Williamson, dollars. Jay, what do you think about Americanism? They took over maga, the boomers, they believe in dispensationalism. They have no idea what it is or what I mean. You know what I think? Why do you think I've been. I'm the godfather of boomer jokes. I was making boomer jokes in 2011 before anybody made boomer jokes. I wrote an essay that went viral. I am the father of boomer jokes. So what? That's how I. That's what I think. Coco Bro, $5. Do you have any book recommendations for an orthodox type of mere Christianity like C.S. lewis? No. In fact, although I love C.S. lewis, this is unfortunately one of the terrible things that C.S. lewis did was contribute to the idea of a lowest common denominator Christianity, which is the mindset of all these goofball so called apologists. They all have the mindset that there is no mere Christianity. There is no. Oh, you just have these five things and that's the. No, that's a Protestant idea. I'm trying to find a clean way to explain the totality to an agnostic cultural Hindu. No, you don't want to give him C.S. lewis. I mean, for a Hindu. I mean, it's something more like. Maybe something like. Jason Lyle's book on tag. I mean, that's the only thing I could even think of that might work. I don't know. Like again, all of you people don't understand. Like there is no Christianity that is churchless. It doesn't exist. God logic has already said he doesn't want to do it about like he said that personally to me. Will you make a debate course like your philosophy course? Probably not, because it took forever to make that debate course. That's why it's expensive. Which by the way, you can still get the debate course. It's in the show description. My. It's at the Autonomy Agora Marketplace link. You can get the philosophy course there. You can also head over to chalk.comchoq.com the best in supplementation on the Internet to get access to the best supplements out there using the promo code j a y 60 l I f e j 60 life. Head on over there and get that male vitality sack. Do not be a passive aggressive evangelifish. Become a toxic masculinity evil ortho bro. Right there. Groovy says for $20. When I say baptism, I'm asking about pedobaptism. What makes physical baptism special? Well, the creed says there's only one baptism. What do you mean what makes it special? It's the only one. One Lord, one faith, one baptism. That's water baptism in Titus 3. The washing of the labor, regeneration. That's what makes it special. This is hard for me to understand as a Baptist. What's hard for you to understand? There's not two baptisms. There's not a meaningless symbolic water one and then a super spiritual gnostic personal one. That's the. It doesn't. They're the same. That's the. That's the easy answer. And by the way, the church always baptized infants. So your whole sect is created around a dumb rationalist George Fox Roger Williams set who thought that you have to be an adult to be baptized. It's just dumb. The whole thing's dumb. And the reason it's all collapsing is because, well, guess what? We have this machine that puts all the world's information right at your fingertips, which didn't exist before. So all these dumb cults are falling away.

[Documentary Narrator]

The hymnals disappeared. Not thrown away, just moved to storage. The projection screens were more flexible, pastors explained. Easier to teach new songs, easier to change things up. Then came the crosses. Warren's training explicitly addressed this. Religious symbols could be barriers. One prominent church in Michigan removed a 50 year old stained glass window depicting Christ's crucifixion. The pastor said it was too graphic for visitors children. The language changed too. Sermons became messages or talks. The altar became the stage. The sanctuary became the auditorium.

[Jay Dyer]

Yeah, but the Protestant world was already business church basically even before this. It just got worse.

[Documentary Narrator]

Pastors stopped calling themselves pastors Aunt. They were lead communicators or vision casters. Sunday school became life development classes. Prayer meetings became connection gatherings. Even communion got rebranded. One church in Texas started calling it the Jesus Meal. Warren had written in the Purpose Driven Church.

[Jay Dyer]

Groovy says, basically you're saying that the physical act of baptism and spiritual baptism are the same. Yes. Just like the incarnation is the divinity with the humanity. There's a synergy there. The Holy Spirit is present at the waters, just like he's over the waters in Genesis 1. Guess what? In your new creation, the Holy Spirit is really present over the waters. In your Baptist baptism, you're saying that Baptists confuse and separate, that the confusion is baptism. Baptists separating it. Yes. Correct.

[Documentary Narrator]

That Saddleback was unashamedly a market driven church. He used demographic studies. He surveyed the community. He discovered that unchurched people's number one complaint was organ music. So Saddleback didn't use organs. Churches following his model, conducted their own surveys. They hired consultants. The worship leader, now called the creative arts director, explained that him didn't fit their target demographic. But I'm not the target demographic, she realized. After 44 years America the stories were eerily similar. A church would launch 40 days of purpose. The pastor would attend a conference at Saddleback or Willow Creek. He'd return excited, energized, talking about vision and reaching the next level. Changes would accelerate. Traditional service at 8am canceled due to low attendance. Wednesday night prayer meeting replaced with seeker focused small groups annual hymn sing not strategic anymore. Those who questioned the changes were labeled resistant, divisive, stuck in the past Pharisees. One pastor in Georgia sent a letter to Long.

[Jay Dyer]

All the same stuff that these goobers

[Documentary Narrator]

say about the Ortho rose members who had expressed concerns. He wrote. If you cannot support the vision God has given this church, it might be time to ask him where he wants you to worship. Translation leave. Warren had a term for this. He called it with blessed subtraction. The phrase appeared in purpose Driven church materials. Warren taught that every church had people who resisted growth. They preferred the church stay small. They valued traditional, overreaching, the lost. When these people left, Warren explained, it was actually a blessing. The church could move forward unhindered onto one. Training video showed Warren explaining, well, all

[Jay Dyer]

these dudes are always chunky too. I think the the new physiognomy criteria, we should put that in place because they make a lot, a lot of this stuff easier if you got double chins. If you're a chunkster, opinion immediately discarded

[Documentary Narrator]

it to a room full of pastors. You've got to be willing to let people leave, he said. Even people who have been there forever, even big givers. The audience applauded. But on the ground, in actual churches, blessed subtraction looked different. In Illinois, a church of 600 shrank to 200 in 18 months. The older members didn't leave because they were resistant. They left because they literally couldn't hear. The new sound system was designed for contemporary music and sermon. Volumes that appealed to younger ears left elderly members unable to follow along. In Florida, a couple who had donated the land for their church building their family farm watched as the church board voted to sell the property and relocate to a strip mall. More visible, better parking. All closer to their target demographic. The couple left. So did 40% of the congregation. One woman in Arkansas wrote, I taught Sunday School for 31 years. Then they told me my style Wasn't aligned with their new strategy. They offered to retrain me using purpose driven materials. Like everything I'd learned, everything I'd done was worthless. But defenders of the movement pointed to numbers. Some purpose driven churches were exploding with growth. The question was what kind of growth and at what cost. Purpose driven churches were succeeding. Attendance up, baptisms up, Small groups multiplying. Saddleback itself had grown to 20,000 weekly attendees by 2005. Willow Creek was.

[Jay Dyer]

Good grief, dude, 20,001 giant mega church. That's crazy.

[Documentary Narrator]

Members, multiple campuses. What they found challenged everything they'd been teaching.

[Jay Dyer]

Multiple campuses. They call their church campuses.

[Documentary Narrator]

The people who showed up for the contemporary services, the seekers they'd redesigned everything to reach. They weren't growing spiritually. They attended, they enjoyed the experience. But they weren't reading their bibles. They weren't praying. They weren't becoming disciples. Worse, the most spiritually mature members, the ones who should have been thriving, were the least satisfied with the church.

[Jay Dyer]

Again, as we said earlier, here's my challenge to any of these people in the E E apologetics sphere. Find show me one parachurch churchless apologist in the first thousand years. Show me one church father, saint apologist, theologian, who argues that you can have apologetics without the church. Where is a churchless apologist? Just, just name one. By the way, there was a Baptist dude that was supposed to come to debate this and he didn't show up. Shock.

[Documentary Narrator]

Hybels, Willow Creek's founding pastor, called it the wake up call of my adult life. He actually said this on stage to thousands of pastors. Some of the stuff that we have put millions of dollars into, thinking it would really help our people grow and develop spiritually. When the data actually came back, it wasn't helping people that much. He went further. We made a mistake. The study called Reveal found that church activities, the programs, the events, the services designed to attract seekers had almost no correlation with spiritual growth. People might come for the show, but they weren't encountering God. Other research confirmed the pattern. A study by the Hartford Institute found that seeker sensitive churches had lower member retention rates than traditional liturgical churches. People would attend for six months, maybe a year, then drift away. The Southern Baptist Convention studied their purpose driven churches in 2008. They found that while attendance initially spiked, giving peer member dropped 18%.

[Jay Dyer]

Yeah, these megachurches, they found this out even in the 2000s. They have a huge turnover.

[Documentary Narrator]

Terrorism declined 23%. Most telling, these churches were conducting fewer baptisms per hundred attendees than traditional Southern Baptist congregations. One researcher called it spiritual consumerism. Churches had become so focused on removing barriers that they'd removed the very things that created commitment. No demands, no expectations, no cost. Just come, enjoy the show and leave when something better comes along. Even Warren's home state of California was seeing the cracks. By 2010, several prominent purpose driven churches had closed or merged due to financial problems. But nothing compares they're closing to what would happen at Saddleback.

[Jay Dyer]

Franchise. Franchise went out of business itself.

[Documentary Narrator]

For 20 years, Rick Warren taught pastors how to build churches that weren't dependent on personality. Don't build around the preacher, he warned. Build around the purpose. Then came 2022. Warren announced his retirement after 43 years leading Saddleback. He had handpicked his successor, a younger pastor named Andy Wood from Echo Church in San Jose. The transition was meticulously planned. Warren had been preparing for this moment for years. It should have been seamless. It wasn't. Within months, Saddleback was bleeding staff. Key leaders who had served under Warren for decades quietly resigned. Attendance, which had already struggled to recover from COVID began dropping faster. Then came the earthquake nobody saw coming. The Southern Baptist Convention voted to remove Saddleback from fellowship. The issue Saddleback had ordained women as pastors, including Warren's own wife, Kay. It violated.

[Jay Dyer]

Dude. They started ordaining his wife. Oh, my gosh.

[Documentary Narrator]

SBC's doctrinal statement. Warren appealed. He flew to the convention. He gave an impassioned speech about the Great Commission being more important than gender debates. He lost. The church that had taught 400,000 pastors how to grow congregations was kicked out of America's largest Protestant denomination. But that was.

[Jay Dyer]

Yeah, and they're all about to die a slow death to the Orthodox church.

[Documentary Narrator]

Just the public drama behind the scenes. The reports were worse. Staff members described a church in identity crisis without Warren's personality, his vision, his.

[Jay Dyer]

Who are these E chicks that are in the stock footage here? Like this stock footage is cracking me up. Do you see the. The Malaysian Asian girls earlier? Like, what did I have to do? Like the stock footage doesn't even match

[Documentary Narrator]

the AI voice connections, his presence. Saddleback didn't know what it was anymore. The irony was brutal. Warren had spent decades warning against personality driven ministry.

[Jay Dyer]

Look at him at the Davos dude. What a phony dude this is. This should have been an immediate disqualifier. Council foreign relations, fake ass pastor at Davos was brutal.

[Documentary Narrator]

Warren had spent decades warning.

[Jay Dyer]

What is this? Klaus Church St. Claus Schwab Zarik Warren, the perfect minister of the Gospel of

[Documentary Narrator]

Davos against personality driven ministry. He'd written books about it, created systems to prevent it, trained pastors to build churches that could outlast their founders. Yet Saddleback itself turned out to be the ultimate personality driven church. Remove Rick Warren and what remained a very expensive campus and a shrinking congregation. Trying to remember why they were different from the dozen other megachurches within driving distance. By 2024, reports suggested Saddleback's attendance had dropped by nearly 30% since Dang Dude. Bleeding Warren's retirement, the church stopped publicly reporting numbers, something Warren had always advocated for, transparency and accountability. One former staff member put it bluntly. We taught everyone else how to build purpose driven churches. But when our purpose walked out the door, we realized we'd been person driven all along. Critics who had warned about the purpose driven model for years felt no satisfaction. These weren't just numbers or theories anymore. These were real congregations, real people, real pain. Which raised an uncomfortable question. Ti te. This isn't a story about whether Rick Warren was sincere. By all accounts, he was. When Purpose Driven Life became a best seller, Warren did something unprecedented. He paid back his church 25 years of salary. He stopped taking any income from Saddleback. He reverse tithed, living on 10% and giving away 90%. He and his wife k threw themselves into causes that mattered. Aids. Really?

[Jay Dyer]

Yeah, right. Who believes that? That's just an old trick where the the church owns everything and the pastor doesn't own it, but he's able to use and do whatever he wants. Right. So like in it isn't Kenneth Copeland's giant mansion owned by the church. Right.

[Documentary Narrator]

This is a trick in Africa. Orphan care, mental health advocacy. Especially after their son Matthew took his own Life in the 2013. Warren could have built a religious empire. Instead, he gave away fortunes. This isn't about one man's motives. This is about what happens when churches adopt corporate methods. The purpose driven model treated church growth like market expansion. It segmented audiences like consumer demographics. It removed barriers to entry. The way businesses streamline purchasing. It measured success in attendance.

[Jay Dyer]

It's titled growth without compromise. And he. He eventually didn't he eventually capitulate to skittles marriage because Obama buddied up buddies with him and then his wife becomes a pastor.

[Documentary Narrator]

And square footage the way corporations measure profit margins. But churches aren't corporations. They're communities. The hymns weren't just old songs. They were the words mourners had sung.

[Jay Dyer]

It. Yeah, I mean, he what? There's no telling what he made from that dumb book. So. Oh, he's not going to draw a salary from the church after his dumb book probably made him $50 million.

[Documentary Narrator]

Brave sides. The liturgy wasn't empty ritual. It was the rhythm that had carried believers through decades. The crosses weren't decorations. They were reminders of why people gathered in the first place. When you remove these things to appeal to seekers, you tell the sought that they don't matter anymore. What?

[Jay Dyer]

All right, that's enough of that. This. I can't take this AI video anymore. There's a couple more that we did get about the collapse of this. We'll get to that next time. Shadow man, could you say Baptism is a manifestation of spiritual baptism? I don't know about manifestation. They're united in synergy. The water and the uncreated energies are what spiritually baptize you. It's in the baptismal liturgy. All right.