Pt 2Trump Attempt! GodLogic/Hijab, Andrew/Triggernometry, Kiriakou, Redeemed Z, Jake/Women OPEN CALL

Summary

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Jay'sAnalysis Podcast Summary (April 30, 2026)

Episode: Pt 2Trump Attempt! GodLogic/Hijab, Andrew/Triggernometry, Kiriakou, Redeemed Z, Jake/Women OPEN CALL

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Episode Overview

This episode of Jay'sAnalysis, hosted by Jay Dyer, features a lively, wide-ranging open call-in discussion covering topics at the intersection of Christianity, church history, theology, culture, and geopolitics. Jay and callers dissect issues around doctrinal shifts in Catholicism, Protestant and Orthodox differences, the role of the church in politics, the commercialization of modern churches, and reactions to current controversies. Other major themes include pacifism versus self-defense in Christian tradition, the “business church” phenomenon, the impact of social media influencers on religious expression, and the infection of liberal or secular ideologies into traditionally Christian worldviews. Notable conversations also address internet grifting, conversion trends, the rise of "One World Religion" ecumenism, and a bit of spicy banter on trends within American and global Christianity.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Catholic Church, Doctrinal Contradictions, and Vatican Politics

• Jay critiques changes in Catholic doctrine, especially regarding the death penalty and open borders. He mocks the inconsistency and willingness of the hierarchy to adapt official stances to political pressures.
  • Quote [00:45]: “In other words, your own church was wrong for a thousand years and didn’t know how to conduct the death penalty... You’re not going to get coherent theology from these people. These people are just mouthpieces for whoever pays them.” — Jay
• The episode discusses the Catholic Church’s engagement with world governance, redistribution of wealth, and socialism, framing Vatican II and subsequent papacies as “Fabian Socialist mouthpieces." Jay insists this is a dramatic break from historic church positions.
  • Quote [30:59]: “The Vatican expresses its desire for the redistribution of wealth, that’s socialism... It’s not the job of international institutions to redistribute wealth. The Papacy is basically a mouthpiece of Fabian Socialism.”

2. Protestantism, Orthodox Converts, and Church Influence

• Callers share personal journeys out of Protestant charismatic circles, with anecdotes about Amy Semple McPherson's mysterious disappearance and speculations about church involvement in war propaganda.
  • Quote [10:52]: “When people get really prominent, all types of special interests come in and want to use these people for mouthpieces.”
• Jay illustrates the entertainment/performance roots of charismatic evangelicalism, connecting “business church” and “failed rappers” as byproducts of a system built for profit and attention.
  • Quote [15:45]: “So notice the origins of evangelical charismatic churchianity are literally people who want to be performance artists... Of course this is going to attract failed ass rappers like Ruslan.”

3. The "Business Church" Problem & Parish Safeguards

• Callers ask how Orthodox parishes avoid being corrupted by money and “business church” tendencies.
  • Parish accountability mechanisms discussed: required financial transparency, annual audits, parish councils.
  • Guest Quote [20:21]: “The annual parish council meeting... you have the accountant put... all that stuff has to be listed…usually there’s a whistleblower or there’s an audit.”
  • Jay and guests stress that no church is immune to financial scandal but orthodoxy preserves more accountability and separation between clergy and secular positions.
  • Canon Law Mentioned [24:53]: Prohibitions on clerics engaging in “worldly business.”
• The episode lampoons megachurches and “Rhythm Church” as exemplars of faith sold as entertainment or self-help with little spiritual substance.
  • Caller Real Experience [114:20]: “They do the five minute spiel about how you gotta donate all your money at the end… a lot of times [Ruslan] was just pushing his book. It is definitely a weird thing.”

4. Free Will & The Frankfurt Case Thought Experiment

• Jay and callers debate libertarian free will versus determinism using the Frankfurt Case, with Jay arguing free will is conceptualized in the will to choose, even if the action is blocked externally.
  • Quote [07:51]: “Choice is not defined in terms of the action, whether you can do it or not, but in terms of can you choose it. You choose it, but can’t carry out the action... It’s still free will.”

5. Christian Ethics: Pacifism vs. Self-Defense

• Major portion of the episode is a pushback against the claim that Christianity is a pacifist religion. Jay references New Testament and Church history, arguing self-defense and just war are deeply rooted in Christian tradition.
  • Quote [61:36]: “The papacy practices self defense. It has a giant leonine wall around it… You have a duty to unalive a person who is trying to unalive your family members. If you don’t, you’ve failed.”
  • The Marcionite heresy and later Protestant pacifism are identified as roots of modern pacifistic misreadings.
  • Notable Moment [57:33]: Jay lampoons modern “radical Reformation” Christians and their secular-progressive counterparts for demanding pacifism, linking this to “SPLC scripts” and civilizational decline.
  • Memorable Quote [82:02]: “They are the mouthpiece of the establishment... Promote pacifism as a technique to destroy civilizations. That’s why.”

6. Social, Political, and “Grifter” Influences in Religion

• Much emphasis on social media “Christian influencer” grifting: podcasts and platforms using orthodoxy or Christianity as SEO marketing props without conviction.
  • Caller Analysis [37:25]: “These guys see the trend... they’re looking at this from a marketing perspective... be this fake neutral... same thing that Ruslan’s doing...”
• Jay exposes how ecclesiastical and “podcast passport” credentials are recycled dishonestly for clout, especially with ambiguous labeling of priests/interview titles for search traffic.
• Trend: Many who become influencers or “catechumens” don’t intend to join seriously but are riding a wave of online popularity.

7. Conversion Trends & Marketing

• Discussion about per capita conversion rates between Orthodoxy and Catholicism; Orthodoxy is cited as outpacing Catholicism per capita, in spite of smaller absolute numbers.
  • Statistical Claim [39:10]: “People converting to Roman Catholicism, it’s roughly only 8%. Orthodoxy per capita is 24.... Those are conservative numbers.”

8. The Role of the State and Church-State Relations

• Vigorous argument that the church and state have an obligation to be harmoniously Christian, spanning ancient Byzantium to the Reformation.
• Critique of “Enlightenment” models of separation between church and state (e.g., Roger Williams, radical Baptists), favoring instead the historic co-working paradigm of church and nation.
  • Quote [49:09]: “The state itself having the ability to execute those who are worthy of the death... is a form of self defense.”

9. Orthodoxy and Online Theological Debates

• Jay objects to the trend of “terminal fence-sitters” and “fake neutral” podcasts. He also notes the role of online provocateurs, unstable persons, and possible subversive actors in online Orthodox discourse.
  • Warning [110:01]: “We’re starting to think these are paid subversives. They’re going to attempt the same strategy of division in America and Orthodoxy.”

10. Ridicule of American Pop-Christianity

• Extended banter about “Cowboy Church,” “Biker Church,” “Rhythm Church,” and even DJ/"Rave" Church trends, highlighting the ongoing blending of pop culture and worship in American Christianity.
  • Funny Moment [121:34]: “The rhythm... The rhythm of the tithe.”
  • Observed Trend [124:32]: “Boneyard Biker Church... Boner Biker Church. Cowboy church is named that... Spirit Halloween Church... When are we gonna go to Spirit Halloween Church?”

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments (with Timestamps)

• Jay on Catholic Contradictions [00:45]: “Your own church was wrong for a thousand years... You’re not going to get coherent theology from these people.”
• The Mega-grift of Evangelicalism [15:45]: “Origins of evangelical charismatic churchianity are literally people who want to be performance artists... it’s business church, dude.”
• Safeguards in Orthodoxy [20:21]: “The annual parish council meeting, you have the accountant put... all that stuff has to be listed.”
• On Free Will [07:51]: “Choice is not defined in terms of the action... but in terms of can you choose it?”
• Pacifism vs. Self-Defense [61:36]: “You have a duty to unalive a person who is trying to unalive your family members. And if you don't do that, you have failed.”
• On Grifter Podcasts [37:25]: “They're titling these videos 'Orthodox Priest'... Everyone's searching for Orthodoxy... from an SEO perspective. Crash out the comments, helps the algorithm. It’s a Grift circle.”
• On One World Religion/Ecumenism [119:56]: “Here is the Abu Dhabi Faith Center that they built, showing you that it’s an attempted one world religion.”
• Rhythm Church Critique [114:20]: “They do the five-minute spiel about how you gotta donate all your money at the end... [Ruslan] was just pushing his book. It is business church.”
• Business Model of American Christianity [124:32]: “Here's Jackson, Tennessee, Boneyard Biker Church... Boner Biker Church. Cowboy church is named that...”
• On Church State Relations [26:52]: “There are certain positions that do not fit with and are not appropriate to the spiritual requirements for clerical historical life. The canon that Cleave mentioned would invalidate the Vatican bank, invalidate all these giant geopolitical world power moves the Papacy has been involved in.”
• SECULAR INFLUENCE in Church [82:02]: “They are the mouthpiece of the establishment and the establishment promotes pacifism as a technique... to destroy civilizations. That’s why.”
• On Church Youth Culture [119:48]: “Everyone is a youth minister. They’re all basically the way youth ministers are.”

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Important Segment Timestamps

• [00:45-03:15]—Catholic death penalty, doctrinal contradictions, infallibility debate
• [05:41-09:17]—Call-in: Frankfurt Cases & Orthodox view on free will
• [09:25-17:21]—Amy Semple McPherson, entertainment roots of evangelicalism, “business church” concerns
• [18:55-22:12]—Safeguards against financial scandals in Orthodox parishes
• [24:53-26:52]—Canons against worldly business, separation from state offices
• [30:59-33:44]—Vatican statements on socialism & global wealth, John XXIII's globalist language
• [37:25-39:03]—Rise of “neutral” influencer podcasts, marketing Orthodoxy
• [61:36-64:10]—Jay’s defense of self-defense in Christianity, critique of pacifist misreadings
• [89:44-92:10]—Hermeneutics: Misreading “judge not” & simplistic Protestant prooftexting
• [114:20-115:59]—Firsthand report: Rhythm Church as “business church”
• [121:34-127:08]—American pop-Christianity: Cowboy church, biker church, DJ Mass

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Tone & Style

Jay’s tone is unapologetically direct, irreverent, satirical, and occasionally combative. He employs humor, pop-culture references, and sharp analogies, interspersed with scholarly references to canon law and theological tradition. The call-in format allows for genuine audience engagement, with both serious and playful banter, and the episode maintains Jay’s signature blend of critique, insider knowledge, and culture war analysis.

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Takeaways

• The episode is a fast-paced, robust critique of modern church trends, theological drift, and the "businessfication" of religious life.
• Jay fiercely defends the Orthodox tradition, church-state unity, and the scriptural legacy of self-defense.
• There’s a wariness toward religious media grifters and the “one world religion”/ecumenist movements, with vivid examples drawn from contemporary Christian influencers and institutions.
• Humor and ridicule are deployed as tools to spotlight the absurdities and contradictions within various expressions of modern Western Christianity.
• The tone is lively and combative, aiming to equip orthodox-minded Christians with both arguments and discernment for cutting through contemporary spiritual confusion.

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Transcript

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[Jay]

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He's not just giving his private opinion. He's saying the death penalty is against the Gospel. That's exactly what John Paul II said. It's in their own new catechism. Right? The new Catechism of the Catholic Church says that. They keep revising it. Let's see, John Paul II said in his encyclical Evangelium Vitae that there's basically no need or use for the death penalty anymore. The death penalty is inadmissible because it is an. It is a, an attack on the inviolability of the human person. No, it's not. So, in other words, your own church was wrong for a thousand years and didn't know how to conduct the death penalty and that they shouldn't do it. This is, you know, silly. This is. I mean, it's not even, it's not like some crazy deep theological issue that they might mess up on like energetic procession or the filioque. This is basic morals. They don't even know if you should have borders. Well, Leo said that a country can't have borders. Yeah, and then he contradicts himself and says to have open borders. So you're not going to get coherent theology from these people. These people are just mouthpieces for whoever pays them. Again, here's the Catechism of Trent, 15, 1560. By the way, I've shown many times, Pius V, the Pope of Trent. And then I think the Pope, right after Trent, they issued a document saying that clerics who are skittles are liable to be handed over to the state to be put to death. Imagine the big gay church at one point said, if you're gay clergy, you could be put to death. Now, who can tell me that's not a contradiction? And they had this view for centuries.

[Caller]

Well, the Pope's not infallible.

[Jay]

Yes, he is infallible in faith and morals. That's the teaching of Vatican one. Heman. What's up, Heman? What's up,

[Caller]

A.J. can I ask two questions?

[Jay]

Just ask the question.

[Caller]

Okay. You know that orthodox Muslim guy?

[Jay]

I know of him, yeah.

[Caller]

Would you debate him?

[Jay]

I think the modern day debate guy and the Sean Kelly guy are already trying to get him to do a debate.

[Caller]

So possibly just because on Tick Tock he's like the real like he's like the last kind of Muslim guy that they're trying to push. Like they're putting all their eggs in his basket.

[Jay]

Okay. Yeah. I mean people have suggested it might come about. We'll see.

[Caller]

Yeah. And my second question is like the, the actual important question is, is when is the Pastor Randy Balls and Rhythm Church collaboration sermon?

[Jay]

Well, Pastor Randy Balls I hear for the through the grapevine. When he gets out of jail, he's in Costa Rica in a jail for prostitution, soliciting prostitutes. He claims he was evangelizing them. We'll have to see. But the word is that he and Ruslan are working on a, a rap summit that will issue ecumenical condemnations against myself, FDA and the ortho bros. Yeah, I, I heard that Orthodox Muslim did get cooked by. I've heard he loses every debate actually. So people are saying to watch God Logic debating hijab, but if I play a clip, hijab will have an excuse to, to copyright my stream. So if, if God Logic gets the debate back on his channel, then yeah, I'll play a clip. But I'm not gonna risk my channel over that goober because there's, there's no. That dude will not has no scruples. David, what's up? Go ahead, man.

[Caller]

Hey Jay, what's up?

[Jay]

Go ahead. What's up?

[Caller]

Hey, I just had a question. It's related to Protestantism.

[Jay]

Okay.

[Caller]

So I have believed in libertarian free will for a long time, but I just heard some interesting objections about it. I just wanted to see what you thought. Have you heard of Frankfurt cases? The thought experiments in regard to.

[Jay]

I have a little discussion. I haven't.

[Caller]

Okay, so basically the thought experiment is. Let's say you went in in its 2024 election and you're going to choose between Biden and Trump. And little did you know you're kidnapped the night before. This is just kind of the way the experiments go to illustrate the point. And there was a chip put in your brain that if you went to press the Donald Trump button, it would activate before you chose that and you'd go and press the Joe Biden button. But before the chip activates, you just choose to of your own will to hit the Joe Biden button. Anyway. You vote for Joe Biden, do you? Was that a free choice is the question there?

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[Caller]

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[Jay]

No problem. Anyone can shine on TikTok.

[Caller]

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[Jay]

Fda.

[Caller]

Even if you couldn't do otherwise, you know you couldn't do otherwise because the chip would activate.

[Jay]

I don't know either.

[Caller]

Is it a free. So you're just mechanism that blocks your free choice? Well, the question is, is it a free choice? I guess is the question because you still showed the chip didn't activate. Yeah, of course it's a free choice. You just, I mean think about all the things that you freely choose that you. But you can't actualize it because something stops you or something like that. So choice isn't defined on in terms of can I carry it out?

[Jay]

Why?

[Caller]

Because choice precedes the action of carrying it out. So simply because you create a scenario which the action blocked has nothing to do with the will or choice. But you couldn't have done otherwise in that moment, the action. What I'm saying is your choice precedes action. So when you say you can't do otherwise, I'm saying you're mixing categories. Choice is not defined in terms of the action, whether you can do it or. Or otherwise or not. But in terms can you choose it? It's like you. You choose it. But I can't carry out the action. So will has to perceive the actual doing. So yes, it's still free Will. It's just.

[Jay]

All right, I appreciate the question. David. Christopher. What's up man?

[Caller]

Hey, what's up, Jay?

[Jay]

Yo. Hey.

[Caller]

So this is on like Protestantism and I listened to a video of yours. I don't know if it was like a clip or something. Hold on Baby, it's. Hold on. Come here. The. And the clip is about like Protestantism in the CIA. Are you familiar with someone called Amy Simple McPherson?

[Jay]

Yeah, we've covered her on several podcasts.

[Caller]

So I, I actually just heard something about how she went missing for like five days or something like that, supposedly. And she came back, she went missing and was reportedly in Mexico, was kidnapped. That's like theory, but there's also a theory that that was all just a cover up for her, like running away with a lover or something of hers. And. And then it's interesting because when you look into. And I was doing all of this deep dive when I was leaving the charismatic church to join the Orthodox church and supposedly she was a huge like World War II proponent of like, she like, would donate her church and like, use her congregation to like, do things and like.

[Jay]

Oh, interesting.

[Caller]

Support the World War II efforts. Yeah, I don't know if you had heard anything about that, if there was any like, CIA.

[Jay]

I hadn't. But I wouldn't be surprised because we often times find that, you know, when people get really prominent or they gain a large audience, all types of interests, special interests come in and want to, you know, use these people for, for mouthpieces. And, you know, at that time, so many movies were being churned out to support the war effort. Jamie and I in the last few years have gone back as an example and watched a bunch of 1930s and 40s movie and movies and a lot of those noir films, all those, you know, Lauren Bacall, Humphrey Bogart, Joan Crawford movies. A lot of those films were actually written by British intelligence to get Americans to support the war effort. In fact, I even covered the woman who wrote a lot of those screenplays. It's in my third book. And I just got that from like public British intelligence history books. So it's not conspiracy books, but so I would not be surprised if there wasn't, you know, some type of connection or that if she wasn't approached at that, at that point. But interesting. Yeah, her. Here's a thing talking about her famous disappearance, which this I don't think I knew about. So let's take a look at that and skip to the part where she. So she supposedly. And again, this could just be some kind of scandal, you know what I mean? Like she's, she's cheating and then so she just comes up with an excuse that she was kidnapped or something. These people are like mega grifters, dude. To do in her life. But was not able, through her relationship with her Mother Danny, I think you can see how Minnie did not feel any affection. She was kind of cold towards her husband.

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She would go out and do her thing.

[Jay]

All right, so now let's talk about the most popular incident in the life of Amy Semple McPherson. Her kidnapping. Yes. In 1926, Amy is exhausted. She goes to the Holy Land for a vacation and a tour. Oh, interesting. Or did she go there to get told by handlers what to say to promote the war effort? And she comes back very refreshed. In May of that same year, they're going to show a slideshow at the church one night, I think it was a Tuesday evening, and everyone gathers to see a slideshow about her Holy Land trip. They show the slideshow. Dude, look at this boomer setup here. And they. He's even got up on the shelf, it says, happy wife, happy life. Oh, this is such a sad boomer evangelical setup here. And at the end of that, Minnie comes out and announces that Sister Amy is missing and presumed drowned. That day, she and her assistant had gone to the beach in Ocean Park. Why would you presume drowned? I mean, like. So she went missing. Well, she's presumed around. Well, I mean, do most people that go to the beach. This is just weird presumptions, but maybe if you're at the beach, that's the most logical conclusion. I don't know. She had gone in the water, and her assistant looked and could not find her. The next morning, 5,000 people gathered at the beach, along with divers and boats to look for the body of Amy. And of course, no one could find it. All right, skipping ahead with. With a man. I can only do this serious boomer pod. For so long was no evidence on either side. There were stories that people had seen her and Ormiston in Carmel, California, but none of them could be verified. So there was this huge question mark. They're either in Texas or Tennessee because he's got a freaking. Looks like a UT hat or like. Or is that a Hookham Horns hat? I can't tell. And let's talk a little bit about Ormiston, because we do know that before the kidnapping, her and Ormiston had a

[Caller]

real kind of a.

[Jay]

A little bit too close relationship. And they were overheard.

[Caller]

Yeah, Yeah.

[Jay]

I don't care what this. Who this crazy woman's sleeping with. Let's get to. This is funny. I didn't know that she had Broadway ambitions, so she just turned her church into Broadway. This is crazy. Yeah. She decides to go to Broadway.

[Caller]

I have come to Broadway. The Mecca of sin, the citadel of worldliness. Oh, I feel in answering this invitation

[Jay]

as though I should like to stand in the midst of the Broadways of

[Caller]

America and lift up my hands and cry. Stop. You're drifting away from the faith of your fathers.

[Jay]

So notice the origins of evangelical charismatic charismatic churchianity are literally people who want to be performance artists. They want to be entertainers. Why are you surprised that it's business church? Of course this is going to attract failed ass rappers like Ruslan, right? It's business church, dude.

[Caller]

You're drifting away from prayer, drifting away from the Bible reading, drifting away from the family altar and only ruin and

[Jay]

a heartbreak and a home break lay in the direction of backsliding. I am coming out to help bring

[Caller]

you back if I can, to the boldest. Give me a burden for souls, Lord. Give me a.

[Jay]

Her church again is floundering financially and she has preached against. Against Broadway. All right, so she just wanted to be a celebrity. Romanity, what's up? But she could have been. Yeah, she could have been asked to be a part of, you know, war effort. Absolutely. I have no idea. That's not even conspiratorial. Like, they were asking everybody all the A list. Actors, actresses, they were entertainers, singers. They were recruiting everybody to be part of getting America behind the war, the war effort. Romanity, what's up, man? By the way, she's also mega influence on female pastors. Right? She's like one of the first famous superstar TV preachers and. And mega pastors. Okay, Romanity, I can't hear you. There's no. You're not. You can't connect.

[Caller]

Cole.

[Jay]

What's up, Cole? Cold Hearted. What's up? Cold Hearted Snake.

[Caller]

Hey, Jay, thanks for having me. Because of time, let me ask. So with all this business church stuff going on, I'm just wondering. I'm a. I'm recently newly illumined. How. How does the church protect itself against, like, being like a business?

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from rebel.com I mean that's always a temptation. There's never going to be, you know, a perfect church. We're not donuts, so we don't think there's going to be some perfect church where there's not, you know, I mean, bishops, priests, they get in trouble for laundering money, stealing money. In the Orthodox Church, there's countless cases you could look up where this has happened. So it doesn't. There's no church that's immune to this. But I mean, hopefully in the Orthodox world world there's a little more accountability. Father Deacon, are there measures or canonical attempts at attempting to protect priests and bishops? I mean, I don't know how monasteries or bishops run the money. I have no idea. It's not, it's not an area I'm, I'm familiar with

[Caller]

protecting from outside influences getting into, into the parishes finances or

[Jay]

episcopacy and stuff like that, I think in general. But it could include like, I mean, orthodoxy susceptible to NGO think tank money. I mean look at, look at Fordham and Aria. We talked about Arian Huffington's foundation trying to get, you know, orthodoxy to go skittles.

[Caller]

Yeah. I mean there's not any perfect kind of solution. I mean the best thing is the financial stuff usually has to be published, for example, in parish councils.

[Jay]

I didn't know that.

[Caller]

Yeah, you have to. The annual parish council meeting, you have the accountant put.

[Jay]

So there, there are some measures for accountability.

[Caller]

Yeah. But I mean it's not uncommon that you hear there's some scandal with something comes out and you find out like they were embezzling money or there was. Yeah, there was just something in Chicago I think with some parish or something like that. So the stuff, you know, usually comes out actually. But we're not immune from. The best thing you can do is something like that, be transparent. And in the parish councils and also the annual dice and stuff, all that stuff has to be listed so you'll have an accountant. And it's really boring in parish councils, but they'll go through is like this much came in, this much was used for the new kitchen. This is going to. We vote to raise the pre salary 3%. Like all this kind of stuff. And they get audited too, you know, oftentimes, so that's. You want that stuff. But usually there's a whistleblower or something or there's an audit. You know, it's happened before that bishops. I mean, you had that whole kind of scandal right with the. With Goark right in New York or something. Maybe about eight years ago. Yeah.

[Jay]

Beloved Sojourner says for $5, thanks for all that you do, you big pimping. Is there an ETA on the freemasonry debate upload?

[Caller]

No.

[Jay]

I don't know. Again, I told you guys that DJ said it would be by the end of the week or by the end of the month. Same with the Kiriaki interview. But it will be fun. And as soon as it comes out, I promise you guys I'll do it. So I hope that Ruslan nuts up and will actually debate. He did say he was blm. And if you identify as black, your voice must be heard. Oh, I didn't even try that angle. Yeah, what if I press Ruslan on identifying as black and then he gots to. He got to hear my voice. Excuse me. When a bipoc person speaks, you learn to sit in silence. Tingu says, do we have Anti cc? Is that. Oh, he's talking about that band from a couple days ago. The Anti CCP Skillet. Yeah, Miles Guo, that Chinese propaganda guy. Flavia says $50 for this is for the discernment. These are some of the ones I missed from the last time. I apologize if I missed you guys. Super chats. I'm trying to catch up because I had to go do another podcast. And so some of the last few super chats I didn't get to Tingo says or Dayjire says. J Song is a top hit at Rhythm Church. Exactly. David says, For $3, I got baptized into the Antiochian Cathedral. I converted from Protestantism two weeks ago before Posca. People like you led me here. Thank you. As many years to you, David. Leave it to Ethan. Ruslan's hero is Toby Mack. Yeah, he's definitely a. Another version. Like a rebranded Toby Mac. Ethel says for $5, I want. If you want to do a video on the charismatic movement, it's going to be the tool for creating one world religion. Look at the Tutor Alexander documentary. That's right. Yeah, we looked that up the other day. I got a. I did look at that. But it's like a nine hour documentary, so that's a little much.

[Caller]

Thoughtful.

[Jay]

$10. Check Twitter space comments. This was two days ago, so that won't matter.

[Caller]

Now

[Jay]

will you cover more literature? Whip Whip says Cormac McCarthy, for example. It would be cool to hear you discuss it. I mean, I could talk about the ones that I've read. Like I've read Blood Meridian. I could do that with Tristan, but I'm not super well read on anything else. Tristan and John Adams have read a lot of bla. They've all read a whole bunch of Cormac McCarthy. But I wrote a grad paper on Blood Meridian, so that's really the only one I could speak to. But that would be fun. The only problem is that like, the. The lit streams take a long time and they're fun, but nobody will watch them because nobody reads books. So you guys are all addicted to Tick tock brain. And then you don't read books and then you don't want to watch my lit live stream. So what's up, Cleave? Shout out to Cleave to antiquity. What's up, dog?

[Caller]

Hey, I was gonna chime in on that. Safeguards against business church stuff going on in the Orthodox church. So canon six of the 85 apostolic canon says, let not a bishop presbyter, a deacon undertake worldly business, otherwise let him be deposed. So we do have cannons, bishops, priests, deacons being like, you know, their own, like, worldly. Worldly business is not related to, you know, religion.

[Jay]

No, I'm glad you mentioned that.

[Caller]

Like, you know, having something on the side that's related to the faith. Find. But, you know, like, I don't know, they want to be like real estate mogul or something.

[Jay]

Yeah, no, that's. This is a great point because, you know, we have other canons in Chalcedon that forbid, for example, clerics from being in offices of civil state. So you can't be a judge and be orthodox priest, or you can't be a, you know, Roman soldier and be an orthodox priest at the same time. And the reason is that there are certain positions that just do not fit with and are not appropriate to the demands and the necessities and the spiritual requirements for clerical historical life. And this, by the way, is one of the classic proofs that the Roman Catholic Church began to deviate precisely when the Papal States began to go to war, to have standing armies, and when the papacy explicitly, from Dictatus Poppy Onward took on a specific civil state role. So the canon that Cleave mentioned, that would invalidate the Vatican bank, that would invalidate all these giant geopolitical world power moves that the Papacy has been involved in for so long. And it's a easy. This is. Nobody ever talks about this angle. I don't understand. Nobody goes at them on the church state relationship. And I don't understand why that's not highlighted more, because it's such a strong line of argumentation to show not just deviation from the first thousand years, but the Vatican too has deviated and contradicted their last thousand years.

[Caller]

Yeah, I think it's because they all know this and they probably agree that the geopolitical situation of the Vatican is just insane. So they don't want to debate it. They're just kind of like, we have to deal with it. I'd rather not talk about it.

[Jay]

Well, they're doing what you, what you see Jack Basiliak doing here and what Trent tried to do when we were negotiating the terms of. We're doing. We're trying to negotiate two. Two debates. I won't say what they are, but the second one, obviously I was arguing about, and we don't know if it's going to come to. To happen, but we're talking about the possibility of two debates. But he said, well, I don't. I'm not going to debate Vatican politics because it has nothing to do with dogma. Oh, yes, it does, because you have dogmas about the Vatican's role politically. So that's the, that's the very thing in question. So do you set to say that you're not going to debate it because there is no dogma on it? Is not true. That's the thing in question.

[Caller]

Right, exactly. Did you see that, that Brian Davila video? I made a post about it recently, but I thought that was wild. He put out a video, he said he didn't know the difference, a Coptic priest and an Orthodox priest. And he got a bunch of backlash because he put out a video saying, interview with an Orthodox priest or something. Then he goes ahead and he posts a video. I think it was like yesterday, the day before. And he says Catholic priests talking with Orthodox priests with the same priests. So he just, he's basically just being a grifter. He just exposed himself.

[Jay]

Yeah, well, UBI said that when that guy came to church, he visited Ubi's church and he said that guy was basically. Got a book and then on a podcast gave the book away, like, a few days later. So he didn't even read the book that UBI gave him. So, no, I don't take that dude very seriously. And he was trying to talk me into flying out there to do a five on five, and I'm like, I'm not going to L. A to do a five on five. I mean, I think that that style of debate is. So they just want to do, like, their own version of Jubilee. And Jubilee is dumb, too, because it's like, you can't actually have a debate in three minutes. It's stupid.

[Caller]

I still can't figure out. It's an absolute shame. I've tried to reach out to clergy and warn them not to, but people. Orthodox clergy is still going on Roots of Orthodoxy.

[Jay]

Well, again, so Brian Davila is in the circles and friends with Roots. And I didn't know that until after I'd already agreed to go on the guy's podcast because the Sean Kelly guy. I was supposed to debate Captain Crack Rock on Sean Kelly's podcast, and Captain Crack Rock couldn't do it. So Sean Kelly was like, hey, will you go on my buddy Brian's podcast? He wants to ask you about Orthodoxy. I was like, yeah, sure. Well, UBI tells me later on, oh, that guy's actually BFF with Roots of Orthodoxy and all that. So if I'd known all that ahead of time and if I had not prior agreed to it, I probably wouldn't have done it.

[Caller]

Well, you saw that Bryce Crawford appearance with the Father Lazarus Coptic Priest. That was set up by Roots, too. So he's. He's going around and he's telling these people, it seems like they've been doing that.

[Jay]

They've been doing this for two years. They've been in this for two years.

[Caller]

What's really crazy is that we found. We're. I'm going to publish some stuff about this, but the. The Southern Pro Law center is actually funding.

[Jay]

He's joking. If you like, they're going to clip that and say that that's slander. I'm being serious. Like, you have to specify that you're joking.

[Caller]

Keep these Southern Poverty Law center jokes going. But, like, people are so autistic. They really be like, oh, my gosh, really? Yep.

[Jay]

Well, speaking of the grip, people can't

[Caller]

pick up on satire, right?

[Jay]

Speaking of the grift, I didn't.

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[Jay]

and ways to save the this Zinger from Leo from a few months ago Leo says hundreds of millions of people in the world are immersed in extreme poverty. There's disproportionate wealth in the hands of a few. This is unjust, the fact in the face of which we cannot fail to question ourselves and commit to change. There is no lack of resources at the root of these disparities, but the need to address solvable problems related to a more equitable distribution of the wealth to be achieved with moral sense and honesty. Now you could say, yeah, Jesus tells us to give alms and warns against the love of money and all that. However, when the Vatican expresses its desire for the redistribution of wealth, that's socialism. That was already for decades condemned prior to Vatican ii. And Leo is just saying, as I've been telling you guys, this is not Leo's personal opinion. He's expressing what Gaudium Espez, which is part of the Vatican II teaching what it says about the redistribution of wealth, about socialism, about United Nations, UNESCO style governance, world governance. They even say, and this goes back to John XXIII's encyclical, the famous one called Pacha Mentaris, which was so bad that it even scared the CIA. At the time they thought that he was they called him the Pink Pope because Pacha Mentaris was expressing that there needs to be centralized world governance models that are in charge of redistributing the wealth the straight of socialism. Now, I'm not pro monopoly capitalism, you guys know that. So I'm not arguing some basic libertarian response. I'm arguing that neither of these positions, those are all predicated on materialism and enlightenment values. So I'm critiquing it from a classical orthodox Christian biblical perspective to say no, it's not the job of international institutions to redistribute wealth. And it's crazy that the Papacy is basically a mouthpiece of Fabian Socialism. But here you have it. Once again, this was, this was a zinger I missed from from Leo Cleave. You sounded suspicious. I feel like I have to justify and and explain why I would go on. Brian. I Had no idea who Brian Davila was. Okay. So when UBI told me I had already promised. I had already. He hasn't released it yet. And in fact, he might not even do it. Right. Because he. If he asked me on the podcast, he goes, how come you don't like Roots of Orthodoxy? And I'm like, I think, yeah, I said. I think, I think, yeah, I said, idea that.

[Caller]

That you went on a show. I just saw that today. Somebody had sent it to me on Instagram DMS that he. Oh, he did it again. Look at him. He. He put a. The same Coptic priest that he was crashing out. People were upset at him for calling him Orthodox and making the title Orthodox, you know, and then he just did it again. I had no idea that you were going.

[Jay]

Well, there was a bunch of red flags that popped up even when I was on the podcast. Like, for example, he said at the beginning, I've gone to the liturgy every day this month. And UBI's like, we don't have liturgy every day, so I don't know what he's talking about. So that was a red flag, which was like, I mean, is there perhaps a church in Vegas that's has a liturgy every day? I mean, I don't think so. Yeah.

[Caller]

And I think a lot of the. There's like, a new genre of terminal fence sitters that are doing this whole, like, oh, should I become Catholic? Should I become Orthodox? And they're just grifting money from people, doing these kind of, like, mega humanist podcast interviews and things like this.

[Jay]

Right.

[Caller]

And they all seem to have links to the same people. Yeah, like, they're all linked up with Roots. Roots of Orthodoxy. And he's. He's hosting debates with, like, Voice of Reason and this kind of stuff, but they're all a part of the same click, so.

[Jay]

Yep.

[Caller]

I mean, I think a good rule of thumb is any major podcast that has, like, Father Lazarus on it, it's probably set up by Roots because he seems to be acting as his agent.

[Jay]

Interesting. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. That's what's going on. And also, so Brian Devila comes out of the real estate bro sphere. He's a huge student of, you know, Alex Hormozi is that big real estate podcaster guy. So basically. So Hormozi is like the biggest, like, real estate podcaster dude who's like, you know, multi millionaire guy. And he just gives a lot of, like, advice on, you know, finance and stuff like that. And Alex was from that sphere and became a. I think it was an atheist for a long time. And then he became a. But he was in the real estate sphere. This is the hormone, the hormozy.

[Caller]

Became a devotee of Tai Lopez.

[Jay]

Well, he became, he came. He became a evangelical charismatic.

[Caller]

So he literally just became Tylo Pat.

[Jay]

Well, a lot of the podcast was him asking me, why does orthodoxy reject charismatic miracles, divine revelation? And. And along we had about, I would say, half, 30 minutes of the hour was about delusion and pre lust. And he was like, I don't understand this pre list thing. Like, what do you. What do you mean? And explain that. And, and I'm not. He says, I had a charismatic miraculous experience where I levitated. Are you telling me that that didn't happen? And I'm. And so, like, we talked about that for, like, 30 minutes. So anyway, so he comes from the sphere of this guy as a student of this guy. And then now these, these guys see the trend. This is my opinion. They see the trend of the rise of Orthodoxy, which I showed you in the Google Trends here. And let me go back to Orthodox Christianity as a term. They see this, right? They see this on YouTube. They see this on web search the last five years. And so they're looking at this from a marketing perspective. And they're saying, like Cleave said, well, all we got to do is be this, like, fake neutral. Like, oh, we want to hear all the sides and we want the Protestant bros and the ortho bro and the this and the not and the same thing that Ruslan's doing with his Blessed God summit, right? Have Gavin Orland, have Trent Horn, have all the Protestants and the Roman Catholics and even the atheists. By the way, there's an atheist dude that made a video who went to Ruslan's thing and he talked about how corny it was. I was about to play that guy's video. But I don't want to just, I don't want to over Rusle and eyes. I mean, I'm not going to talk about this guy every day. But, yeah, you get the point. Right?

[Caller]

Yeah, that's a, that's a good point that you bring up, too. I think the reason that they're titling these videos Orthodox priests is because nobody's searching. Coptic priest, right? No one's searching, you know, monophysite priest. These are not, these are not search terms anybody's looking for. Everybody's looking at Orthodoxy, even, even over, say, like, Roman Catholicism. I was looking at a Google Trends thing. If you type in, like, Roman Catholicism and Orthodoxy, the Searches for Orthodox are way higher even on, from like an SEO perspective. So these guys are using the title knowing that they're going to have people crash out the comments. But the crash house in the comments also help their algorithm.

[Jay]

It helps the algorithm. It's a Griff circle. Exactly. And if they, and if it wasn't that they would immediately convert to the to be, they would become catechumens and they would follow the rule of not being, you know, public influencers for a while. They would take some time to learn the theology. But that's not what it's about Anyway,

[Caller]

by the way, speaking of, you know how they're always so obsessed with numbers?

[Jay]

You mean marketing dudes or who the papers are? Yes, the papers, yes.

[Caller]

Now, of course, there's one number that they, the church has, the, the Papist church that they won't let you bring up. But I'm not going to mention that on air. However, if you go look, per capita.

[Jay]

What are you referring to? You're all these cryptic jokes. Like, what's your cryptic joke there? What's the number?

[Caller]

Roman Catholics have a really high number. Another really high number.

[Jay]

Oh, PDF stuff.

[Caller]

Yes.

[Jay]

Okay, gotcha.

[Caller]

But, oh no, that doesn't count. That's when the numbers don't count.

[Jay]

Right.

[Caller]

All right. However, go do some research. Per capita, there are people converting to Roman Catholicism, it's roughly only 8%. Orthodoxy per capita is 24. And numbers are probably higher because it's more difficult to get because of the decentral and you know, the auto, you know, the different jurisdictions to get. So basically those, those are conservative numbers. They're probably higher than 24. Anyways, they're so obsessed with numbers, but it's like you're losing. First of all, you're bleeding.

[Jay]

Well, according to. Yeah, but according to Posobiak and all the ex influencers, they're exploding. And Candace is, is causing Catholicism to explode. Who believes only 8% per capita.

[Caller]

Yeah, it's. And we're at a low conservative number 24. So yeah, we're beating them. It's just. Yeah, they have more people in terms of total numbers because they have more. Absolutely. There's a larger number of Roman Catholics.

[Jay]

Okay. Now Dantel says for $10, Clyde is a huge Islamic shill. Are you talking about this guy? He just converted Orthodoxy. So that doesn't sound. That doesn't sound right. Are you talking about a different Clyde? Or maybe you're saying this guy is not fully instructed yet in Orthodoxy? Like he thinks that the two can be joined together? I'm not sure what you mean, Dantella, or are you talking about somebody else? You're talking about this guy? Because this guy reached out to me. I think he's knows Father Moses. Right. So this guy is a Instagram guy who just went to Mount Athos and has been baptized, converted Orthodox church. I see. Cleave commented here on his video many years. So I was going to play a little bit of a clip of his video, but he's basically just describing his journey. And I think he had a period of atheism as well, but I haven't. All I've saw, all I've seen on his feed is Orthodox stuff. So I didn't know. I've not seen anything about Islam. So maybe you're saying that, like, he had a position on. Oh, he was talking to Myron. So he did an interview with Myron five months ago. Interesting. Yeah.

[Caller]

So you were telling me about how you got into this.

[Jay]

Yeah. So my upbringing was in a Protestant, Reformed Church, Republican, all that stuff.

[Caller]

And like, my church growing up, my

[Jay]

circles, growing up, my family, they were all like, pro Israel. So maybe he had this sort of a. What's the word I'm looking for a lot of the sort of the Tucker attitude of like, oh, well, maybe we can be BFF with Islam because it's supposedly based. So his Instagram is filled with praising Islam. Interesting. So, I mean, I think if he's, if he's a genuine convert, that will eventually work itself out. I don't, I don't think he. But again, remember, time will reveal all this stuff to people. Right. For people. Right. So if people are fake converts, eventually they, I think, make a big mistake or they, they go away or whatever. But I haven't seen. I mean, Father Moses, I think, is trying to move him in the right direction. I think Father Moses is good. If Father Moses is not going to be pro Islam at all. So somebody says the super chatter is referring to his pro Gaza approach. Well, that's not the same thing as being necessarily pro Islam. So people are saying he's not pro Islam, he's anti Zionist. Okay. Clyde collabs with Muslims because he's pro pro Gaza. Okay, interesting. Well, we'd have to see exactly what his positions are. And I think Clyde reached out to me. He wants to do a conversation. So we have talked on dms. So we'll try to flesh out exactly what's going on there, because I noticed there was a. There was an interesting conversation between John Kuryaku and what's his name pbd. And they were arguing over this exact same issue of, like, is PBD Zionist or not? And so they kind of had a little mini debate about that American Nacho, what's up?

[Caller]

Statement and a question, I guess. Did you see that Conor McGregor supposedly converted to orthodoxy? And, you know, if there's any.

[Jay]

Well, I don't know if he converted. I thought there was a picture where he's. I mean, Tristan went and looked at all of his Instagram and it's largely Catholic stuff. So he might have, like, visited Orthodox church or had an interest or maybe he is inquiring, but I don't think he's. I mean, maybe he has, but people were also saying there's a lot of Roman Catholic stuff that's, that's still going on. So, I mean, I hope he is, but he also, he might also be thinking, you know, oh, they're, they're the same. You know, Orthodox and Catholics are the same.

[Caller]

Yeah, maybe. And then my other question was, have you ever done like a deep dive, like a video on, like, Buddhism and the history of it? And I know you've done some debates with some, some guys like that, but I didn't know if you've done like an in depth, like, because I know there's some weird.

[Jay]

My wife is doing. My wife is doing a deep dive into Tibetan Buddhism. Of late, they've been doing podcasts on her channel about that.

[Caller]

Okay, I'll have to go check.

[Jay]

But I, I've not, I've not done myself a very extensive dive into Buddhism. I, I've looked into and read some things on Tibetan Buddhism over the years, so I know a little bit more about that, but I don't know a lot about the overall, you know, Buddhist traditions other than sort of cursory overview. Perhaps in the future, though, I can dive more into that.

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[Jay]

What's up?

[Caller]

Hey, Jay, what's up?

[Jay]

Not much. What's on your mind?

[Caller]

I just saw. I sent it to Your inbox. It looks like James Lindsay wrote a giant wall of text about a clip of Andrew on trigonometry where Andrew is saying that Christianity is not a pacifist religion and Lindsay is calling him a Marcion or Marcionite or something. Just wondering if you had seen it and if you had a take on what.

[Jay]

Well, yeah, I was. We were going to cover the trigonometry discussion because Kai reached out to me and said that Andrew's discussion was one of the best that he's heard in terms of conveying to people in the political sphere how you can't really have a worldview or you can't really do politics without having a worldview. And then every position kind of has an underlying paradigm or worldview. So we were going to play that clip, but I didn't know that Lindsay said that. But I'm not surprised because James Lindsay is an absolute idiot when it comes to any of these topics. And we can see that if he's, if he's saying that Andrew's position of kind of a, A if the position that the state has a duty to Christianity or to God, that's like the opposite of Martianism.

[Caller]

Yeah, I don't even really understand like what he's trying to say. Like I skimmed through it.

[Jay]

Okay, I'm pulling it up here.

[Caller]

Both. And he's got me blocked. So it's not like I can reply, but I was just like, Marcianism. Like, how is this a Marcian?

[Jay]

This would be the opposite of Marcianism, which would show that he doesn't know what he's talking about. So let's see what he says. He says foreign boggling. I'm not arguing that Christianity should be pacifists. Andrew Wilson gives the example of selling your cloak to buy a sword from the Gospel of Luke. Well, that's actually been used many times to show that Jesus isn't pacifist. I'm an agnostic. He exeges this wrong. Like, why are we going to listen to some atheist dude exegeting scripture? The point of the story is that Jesus knows he's going to be taken by the Romans. It's not to fight. Well, it is self defense though. Jesus says in the next sentence that he's done speaking to his disciples. He's doing it so that he will be taken with the fulfillment of prophecy. Yeah, but none of that shows that it's not self defense. Still, Jesus disciples said they already had two swords and they said it is enough fighting off Romans who are there to keep the law. No for looking for an armed band of transgressors? Yes. It's just speculative. It's not just speculation. The swords are not for fighting or fighting that. Well, even still, like this is just nitpicking because self defense itself is biblical and we have a long tradition of this. The Old Testament teaches the self defense is biblical. You even have a duty to, as a man, defend your wife and kids. And you have to put your life on the line. In fact, when I was married in the church, we had, you know, oaths that we say, will you, will you give your life for her? Well, is that not talking about self defense? I mean, that's crazy. So James Lindsay has no idea what he's talking about with just overall Christian ethics and moral and the history of the church. Right. So he goes on to say, he goes on to say Peter draws a sword, Jesus rebukes him for it. His disciples weren't armed to fight back. I think the point though is that even though Jesus knew and they knew they were not going to have an arms insurrection, the principle of having the swords shows us that Jesus is not opposed to self defense. In other words, the state itself having the ability to execute those who are worthy of the death one with the Allah, Romans 13, that itself is a form of self defense. Right. The state executing the death penalty is self defense. And there's also individual self defense. So it's a. It's the principle of being able to have weapons and self defense. Even though of course Jesus wasn't saying that take these swords, we're going to go overthrow the Romans. That's the zealot position. But it still shows the principle of self defense.

[Caller]

Well, it sounds to me like, because, you know, James Lindsay thinks that Christian nationalism is like a Nazi movement.

[Jay]

Yeah. He thinks it's a scion, which is ridiculous because it's his position. That's actually the psyop.

[Caller]

Yeah. And what Andrew did brilliantly. I'm glad you're going to review the trigonometry thing because he argues for it, Christian nationalism from him, his view is not this idea that we're going to have an armed insurrection and take over the government. We're going to fight a new crusade. That's not what he's saying at all. He says what you were saying earlier, which is that as Christians from our worldview, we are using our Christian worldview to determine morality, which is how you figure out what laws you're going to have and how you're going to govern your society. What is socially acceptable and not and all those sorts of things. And he did a great job of breaking down. Yeah, Constantine's like liberal presuppositions, which are the same ones that James Lindsay holds. So of course he. I knew that's why he's upset about it, but he's acting like Andrew is out here calling for like an armed crusade or an armed insurrection to overthrow the U.S. u.S. Government or something, which is.

[Jay]

They're doing not. Yeah, but. No, but you know what's funny is that, did you see earlier in the show, so Ruslan and Gavin Ortland are implying similar types of things. They're saying that ortho bros are now dangerous and dark things are coming and they're going to be hyped up. And Orland said today, these people are extremists. Of course, he doesn't say who's talking about. He's obviously talking about us and they're dangerous and all this kind of stuff. When in reality, none of us are ever calling for violence. We're talking about the principle of self defense and the Christian doctrine of the state. And these people are liars. And they repeat what sounds like an SPLC script. So I'm not surprised that James Lindsay repeats similar types of scripts. James Lindsay is an open relationship with his wife and has been for a long time. He's a complete phony. And that's why he absolutely refused four different times an offer to do a public debate.

[Caller]

Yeah, I've offered to debate him on feminism multiple times because he gets a whole bunch of that wrong and insists that, you know, feminism is not the same thing as egalitarianism. And, and, you know, I've challenged him on that and his whole liberal ethos. And all he does is block me and say that, you know, I'm some kind of pick me or whatever. He does that whole thing.

[Jay]

So, yeah, I mean, and I tried, of course, again, here's another example where people say, oh, you're being mean. No, I tried being very, very friendly with James Lindsay for several years, actually. We went on two or three podcasts together. We had good conversations. Good. In fact, I was even at an event where we had a three way debate between me, him and whoever that fat, fat Calvinist pastor is. I forget his name. Me and that fat Calvinist guy were just going at it like hardcore. And Lindsay was there just kind of laughing and kind of stayed out of it. But, you know, we had a three way disagreement discussion on whether or not America and Americanism are what Christianity was actually trying to promote. Right. Because you have These Calvinist guys who think that in this situation, they were saying, oh, Nick Fuentes is the face of the woke, right, that is going to take down, you know, America and change the Constitution. And then that led into a debate about where I was arguing. I don't agree with, I don't agree with Nick on everything, but I was arguing, well, actually, Nick's not wrong in principle in saying that the church and the state have a role of, of helping to guide society together. And there's no such thing as this idea of a secular state or the Enlightenment freemasonic idea of the separation of church and state, like Roger Williams taught, right. And that was. That just blows these people, people's minds, right? They absolutely lose it and they will immediately call you, you know, everything in the book. So let's play his response here. This idea of like Christian pacifism and Christians being pussies, I don't know where that came from. Britain, I think, boy, that was never.

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And so what about the teachings of Jesus Christ?

[Jay]

Now this is so low tier, right? Like, obviously, if you're familiar with church history, we have so many warrior saints. You have countless kings that were saints. The Old Testament is full of people like David, you know, heroes of the faith, or Samson. Even if you read Hebrews 11, when Paul cites heroes of the faith, he also includes people who put to flight the wars and the foreigners and those of the enemy. So there's this idea that now that Jesus came, everything is now, quote, spiritual. That's actually the Marcionite position, the idea that God has nothing to do with the state. That's the Roger Williams position that we outlined last night and today, which is the Gavin Ortland again, Al Mohler, the president of the Southern Baptist Theological Seminary, invites on the CIA guys and the consultants and the counterintelligence people and pushes CIA lines that we've got to be doing espionage in other countries. And it's biblical because we gotta fight Putin. So he just repeats the normie CIA stuff. And even if you think that's legitimate, that's night and day. Imagine Roger Williams, their spiritual forefather, saying that we got to have spies in other countries for the super state, for the American empire. It's just retarded. It's the opposite of what the whole Baptist tradition was about, namely disestablishmentarianism. The idea there is no role that the state has to God. There's a separation, not just a church and state, but God from state. That's Roger Williams. Which ones you want to dive into? Well, I was raised as racist Catholic so I'm not as well verse in

[Commercial Announcer]

scripture as you when he was on the cross.

[Jay]

Forgive. He doesn't know that his own Catholic teaching for the last 1600 years in the west is the same position that the state has a duty to God, the state can execute criminals, you have a right to sell. What Christian country has forbade the basic principles of self defense? Now you could say maybe the class system in Britain didn't allow people to have like swords and stuff like that at various times. But in general the principle of Christian nations in the history of the church has allowed for self defense. And the again the idea of having a Christian army that defends against invaders and foreigners. There's nothing that's just taking the self defense principle and applying it on a larger scale and imagine actually arguing that. No, actually you have no right to self defense. Remember Seraphim Aldea, that Marxist pacifist libtard that tries to argue against all the orthodox converts in America he says are satanic? That's what he said. He said I went to all of the American parishes and churches and I didn't find one true convert. These were converts of the devil. Remember him saying that? Just outrageous, just total insane levels of pre last. The dude lives on an island under the protection of a state. Is he going to say that when the Muslims come into his little Scottish island or wherever he is? What's he going to say when the Muslims show up there? Is he gonna, is he going to appeal to pacifism? No, he's living under the benefits of a state that protects him, at least for this present time against foreign invaders. Now all of Europe is being invaded intentionally, by design by oligarchs bringing in zillions of infinity Muslims and others. So they're going to learn what their open borders, pacifism, fake ass Christianity is actually going to get them when the Muslims come in as they are doing right now.

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[Jay]

So all of these libtards who push this absolute made up pacifist idea, it's not, it doesn't exist in church history. And they'll pick out a monastic saint talking about vows of poverty, chastity and obedience. That's monastic life, that's not the state. And Nicaea already said in its canons, there's nothing antithetical to being a Christian and being a soldier. So the understand there's already that. We've already had this debate. This debate happened in the second and third century because you had some groups amongst the church saying, like Roger Williams and the Baptist think you can't have anything to do with the state because the state is the beast and it's Satan. Okay? We had this low tier Baptist level debate in the 2nd and 3rd century and Nicaea already ruled on this, that there's nothing antithetical to being a soldier and being a Christian. And one of the arguments they use is John the Baptist saying to the soldiers, the soldiers say, John, what must we do to be right with God? And he says, don't mistreat people and don't take people tax money or tax them more than they deserve. That was Nicaea's proof text. Well, obviously if God didn't believe in self defense or armies, John the Baptist would have said, you need to leave the army. You must leave it. This is so low tier. Like it's just so silly. I mean, imagine thinking in the Middle Ages that when you have a, basically a Christian society, whether it's Byzantium or whether it's, you know, a French village in the 1100s. Like imagine thinking that, oh, you're not supposed to have any kind of borders or walls or defense. It's just retarded. Like everyone just think you're insane. Like what are you talking about? We have a, a, a castle because we have freaking looters and invading armies that come through here. So we're not supposed to have self. It's just like people are so dumb and living in some fantasy world because we've grown up in this peaceful post World War II environment where they just think that, that, oh, everybody's cool and liberal. No, the Somalians coming into your neighborhoods, the Muslims coming in, they don't have the same. They don't care about civic nationalism and the Constitution and all this. They don't care about that. And you're gonna find out that they don't care about that. You're already finding out. All the people in Britain are begging us in our country to help and figure out how to not let that happen here. Why why would they be begging us if, if the. Oh, the Muslims are all going to be cool, dude. They're all. Everybody's going to be cool, bro. We'll all team up together then.

[Commercial Announcer]

Lord, if they know not what they do.

[Jay]

Of course. And you should forgive people. I absolutely agree with that. I may forgive a man who attempted to rape my wife, but I'm going to kill him in the attempt. Right. Like that's actually correct. It is not murder to practice self defense. This is so basic and people should know this. Does anybody, I mean, do you guys not realize that? What do you think would happen if somebody tried to get into the Vatican and do something to Pope Leo? What do you think would happen? I think Pope Leo would just lay there and let the butt buddies do whatever they want with him. Actually, in the case of the Pope, they might. Right. But in theory, no, in practice, probably not. Right. I mean, imagine somebody breaking into the Moscow Patriarchate. Right. Do you think they would try to. Oh, you could just let it be pacifist. Be pacifist. They would immediately assassinate him. He would be immediately taken out. Somebody rushes the Popemobile, what do you think those 16 security guards are going to do? They're going to take him out immediately.

[Caller]

Duh.

[Jay]

The papacy practices self defense. It has a giant leonine wall around the papacy. It's a city state. You can't just walk in there. You think you can just bust up in the Vatican bank, be like, yeah, I'm here, I want to, I want to take all the cash and you got to let me do it. Because of pacifism, you're going to be immediately arrested. Yes. You have a duty to unalive a person who is trying to unalive your family members. And if you don't do that, you have failed. I took an oath when I got married to do that. I have to lay down my life should someone try to come at Jamie. That's why we carry implements of self defense. When I go places, I have that duty. If I don't do that, I fail at my duties as a husband, as a man. And it's, it's so insane to me that I look over here at the Catechism of Trent, their own Roman Catholic teachings, and they said that the, of course the, the church teaches the death penalty. It's part of the sixth commandment. And now Roman Catholic weirdos on podcasts act like Christianity as pacifism. That's the Marcionite view. Yeah. I don't. What, which things contradictory here. It's like I can forgive my enemies, but that doesn't mean I need to

[Caller]

let them crush too much milk.

[Jay]

Well, I mean, this guy sitting here looks like a total soy man, whoever this guy is. But yeah, it's like there's nothing contradictory about saying that I have a duty to unalive. It's like the same with warfare, right? If I unalive people in warfare, I'm fulfilling the duty to defend my country. Let's say for the sake of argument that it's not some fake ass war or something that, you know, we're fighting for Israel, for actually fighting for the defense of the country. Like I have a duty to do that. And it's not ideal, but the church has for a long time said, yeah, we, I mean, we just talked about this. A Pageau, you know, Pageau came on and said, look, orthodoxy is not pacifist. We recognize the unfortunate nature of this world requires things like lawful warfare. It requires things like, you know, assassinations even. Perhaps I'm not advocating for an assassination of a political leader. I'm just saying like in the history of Israel, for example, you'll see that there are spies, there is espionage, there are military tactics and techniques. They're all throughout the Bible and the history of the church understood that reality. And it's not condoning every single act of violence or something like that to say, yes, there is a kind of just war. I would argue, yeah, there is a just. It might be more scholastic and technical in the way that like Tim Gordon formulates it from Thomas Aquinus, but I think Thomas Aquinas is not really explicating anything that different from the way that the Byzantine leaders and patriarchs and armies would have thought about it. For example, under empress, I think it was Irene, one of the empress empresses, she actually named a bunch of the military divisions after various saints. And that was norm. That was normal in Byzantium. Nothing weird or bizarre about that. So all of this stuff that we are dealing with nowadays, again, it's radical Reformation teaching. It's not. The Protestant reformers, they all believe what I say. Luther, Calvin, Zwingli, they would agree. Well, maybe not Zwingli, but Luther and Calvin at least would agree with what I'm saying. The state has a right to execute people, you have a right to self defense. Death penalty is true and right, they all taught that. But what ended up winning is the radical Reformation, which did stress in many cases pacifism and the idea that the state is of God or not of God, it's of Satan. Just crazy stuff, right? Disestablishmentarianism, that's what most of these evangelicals and even normie Roman Catholics like this guy, they think that's what Christianity is. It's radical reformation. George Fox Testament of Ann Lee Pacifism Me, I can forgive people who have done me wrong. Doesn't mean I need to let them do me more wrong. This is correct. It is technically correct that you can unalive a person and also forgive them. That is our duty as a Christian. It's not required that I resent and hate a person even if they do me wrong and I have to in a certain case, unalive them. Think about all the situations in the history of the church where people had to defend their family or their kids. Does that make everybody, in that case a murderer? That's just crazy. Does it mean that you then have to hate the people? No, it doesn't. So this is, this is absolutely correct. I can forgive people for doing horrible acts against me. Doesn't mean I need to continue to let them do horrible acts against me. This is exactly right. Like, who actually doesn't agree with that? People might have criticisms of Andrew, whatever, but that point, that position is correct. There's nothing in theological incorrect there. Christian ethics has been wildly widely bastardized by progressive leftists as being some kind of like hippie religion. It is definitely not. That's absolutely correct. It never has been. And I don't know where that came from. Yes, it's true. The teachings of Jesus Christ are very heavy on loving your neighbor and understanding forgiveness and understanding the mode of sin and that most people are going to engage in sin. So we need the forgiveness of Jesus Christ for that. That's true. But it's not a pacifistic religion and it never has been a path. Jesus told one of his disciples to sell a cloak and buy a sword. But these were not pacifists. Jesus ran money changers out of a temple that with a braided cord that he made out of leather and whipped them out of the temple. Yeah. So again, there are times for these types of actions. Right. What does Ecclesiastes say? There's a time for war, a time for peace, a time for mourning, a time for joy. And a lot of people don't understand the nuances and what we call decorum or, you know, propriety when it comes to these types of topics. Right. For example, there's a time for celebration. Jesus attended the wedding at Cana and he drank wine. Does that mean that every day is a wine drinking Wedding celebration? No, of course not. Go ahead.

[Caller]

What? I was joking.

[Jay]

What'd you say? You cut out. I didn't hear.

[Caller]

I was saying. Wait, what?

[Jay]

You don't, you don't know that? Well, I'm just saying, you know, evangelicals will like take a verse and act like that's the verse for everything at all times, right? Like you should never. Like there was a guy on Twitter today saying whatsoever. There's a guy on Twitter saying today it's ungodly. If you ever make a joke like this like mega piety signaling stuff and it's like, I mean, you think there's no time for mirth. That's crazy. Like there's a. Read Ecclesiastes. Like there's a time for all of these things. There's a season for these things. And the absurdity of evangelicalism or the way these people, childish people interpret the scriptures is like they, they take one verse and they think that that's over everything else, right? Like, well, God says, you know, love your neighbor and not to judge. Okay. But he also says judge with righteous judgment. So you're picking out one verse to piety signal and ignoring the other places where you have to obviously make judgment calls. So if you're in an alley and your wife is, you know, got our purse out and there's some, you know, thug dude that's coming down the alley and he looks suspicious, are you not going to make a judgment call? It's just everybody is. Of course. Of course you are. So yeah, I think even if the, the selling of the sword might not have been the most pertinent example, you could have said Romans 13, that there are examples of self defense. The principle of Jesus having his disciples have the sword still is a principle of self defense defense. So I think Andrew is overall absolutely correct. I would have used Roman 13, Romans 13, but so what? It's not it. This doesn't. I mean, James Lindsay is just capitalizing on this to say that we're all bad because w. The woke right is an op. And he's just mouthing what Netanyahu says, right?

[Caller]

The woke right.

[Jay]

More like the woke Reich. Two weeks, Iran has nuclear bomb. Come on, dude,

[Caller]

don't say it. Don't say it.

[Jay]

Is it a possibility? Probably the best. Wonderful.

[Caller]

Great.

[Jay]

Go ahead, say it. Go ahead, grift away. Probably the best ever.

[Caller]

Probably.

[Jay]

Wow, man. I totally just. I like these two brown boys here.

[Caller]

Whatever.

[Jay]

Probably the best two brown boys.

[Caller]

Probably.

[Jay]

Anyway, that one popped up. I didn't know that was. That was on here. But all right. Yeah, I wish James Lindsay would do a debate. Like, he's. He presents himself as this, like, super savant, you know, intellectual. It seems like he seems like he'd be able to debate somebody on all of his agnosticism, but he never wants to debate Jeff again. Jeff, you called in like three times, man. What's up?

[Caller]

Yo, Speaking about James Lindsay, did you see that he reposted? I posted in the chat calling Father Josiah Trenum bad theology and like, Russian propaganda, basically.

[Jay]

Oh, are you serious? Also been going Father Josiah's Russian propaganda? No, because I don't follow James Lindsay. But I'm not surprised. I mean, his whole thing is to just act like anything that's not enlightenment progressivism or, you know, Enlightenment Masonic liberalism is the woke. Right. Op of Marxist woke. Right. It's so gay. Dude, who's raising their hand? Somebody wants to. Come on. I see somebody raising their hand. If you disagree, you go to the headline. We're not looking for all the ortho bro catechumen questions. I'm not mad at you guys. Just looking for people who disagree or have. And keep it to the topics. Right. Please don't ask me about tag. For the thousandth time, Jerry, what's up? I'm you, Jerry.

[Caller]

Yo, can you hear me? So related to, like, geopolitics and religious orgs, do you know anything about the history of the Jesuits in Japan in, like, the 1600s

[Jay]

and that, like, Matteo Ricci? I think I know some of that history, but not extensively.

[Caller]

Yeah, so basically the Jesuits were set up in like, the 1530s, and by the 1580s, they're already being used as essentially intelligence network to, like, gain favorable trades. And by the year 1600, they're basically controlling the entire silk trade between China and Japan. It actually gets so bad that the Taiko leader of Japan tries to expel them and they end up importing guns to fund a coup to try to get rid of him, and he finds out and eventually they get expelled. Wow. Going ON in the 16th century, they're like staging coups in Japan to gain favorable trades.

[Jay]

No, I never heard this. This sounds fascinating. So basically, they're essentially operatives for global trade.

[Caller]

Like, yeah, they're working for Portugal specifically.

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[Jay]

All right, let's unblock this goofball for a second to see what he said about Father Josiah. So this. This is the classic, like, neocon evangelical stuff, which. This dude is an atheist. Like, what's. He has no relevance to the Christian evangelical sphere, except that they're all basically atheists. So I'm looking for what he says about Father Josiah. Is it a while back? Are you there?

[Caller]

Sorry, were you talking to me?

[Jay]

No. Jerry, where's the quote about Father Josiah? Or was that the other guy?

[Caller]

No, that wasn't me.

[Jay]

Oh, that was the previous guy. Sorry. That was the previous guy. I'm looking for it. So here he is. He's just pushing, like, the CIA's regime change in Iran. I mean, dude, this is just. This guy's just a mouthpiece for just neocon everything. Neocon. Calling Alex Jones full of it. Here he is with his pro Israeli propaganda that he always puts out. If you're a conservative who recently turned against Israel, you have fallen for propaganda. It was meant to trick illiterate peasants in Europe. Y. Come on, dude. This guy's a joke. Look at what groomers do. Doesn't. Aren't you in an open relationship with your wife? What are you talking about? This is why you, like, you have to have. Here we go. Okay, so he's sharing the fact that RT picked up a clip of Father Josiah and he's saying that Father. Implying Father Josiah is a Russian agent. And what website is he pulling this from? A watch company? What is this, a Protestant watch company? So he's over here with some fake ass watch company putting out stuff to. It's a watch company trying to make viral content to sell their watches that he shares about Father Josiah. Let's watch. Christians read the Old Testament through the New Testament because everything in the Old Testament was about Jesus Christ. So for a Christian, we understand the Old Testament to be for a.

[Caller]

An earlier.

[Jay]

What St. Paul would call a childish age. An age in which the human being had not yet been redeemed, God had not yet become man, sin had not yet been atoned for, and the Holy Spirit had not been given to believers until the day of Pentecost. Once that happens, a much higher way of life, the Christian way of life, is established as normative. So it would make no sense at all for us to follow the Old Testament. Yeah, this is misquoted. He doesn't say we don't read it at all. We do read it. Excuse me? Never mind. Or they had the correct quote. It says we do not follow Old Testament at all, meaning that we don't follow the Judaic understanding of it. Right. So we read the Old Testament through the lens of the New. And James Lindsay is trying to give the impression who again is an absolute heretic who won't debate anybody. He's an atheist, he's a leftist plant just like Gavin or any of these other people in terms of their family. Right, Gavin, Gavin. Maybe he really is at heart a conservative, I don't know. But his dad is a Kamala supporter, a mega acumenist Kamala supporter as we saw earlier. And that's why James Lindsay is not interested in actual debate. He's a propagandist, you understand, the people who are mouthpieces and plants, they will not debate anybody. This, remember he did all this, started all this nonsense with Pageau going after Pajo last year in the year before because Pageau talked to Jordan Peterson and James Lindsay was trying to like read into all the symbolism of stuff in some weird like literal, like Alexander, his lot level stuff. Just absolute idiot. Here's Leo again here. This just, this just came out. Pope Leo reframes the migration debate that the wealthier nations of the Global north need to address the conditions of the Global South. So it's the fault of the north that you're successful. This is. And, and actually here Jack Posobiek is correct. The framing of Global north and Global south are actually neo Marxist constructs. Right. And the idea is to give the impression that the only way that the, that the Global north is wealthy is because they've exploited the global South. Right. Which is an over oversimplification and exaggeration. And it does come out of Marxist socialist sort of constructs. And here's the Pope again stating exactly what this is. These people don't understand. This is not Leo's opinion. It's in Gaudium at Spez. It's the Vatican stated political stance since Vatican II at Gaudy Mezpez, that document and Pacha Mentaris from John the 23rd. So Leo is not deviating from the last 70 years of Vatican political teaching. Michael, what's up? Michael, you want to unmute?

[Caller]

Yeah. Hey everybody. I was just gonna say I don't understand this whole self defense debate how all of these, all these Christians, all these Catholics, they're, they're so outspoken about.

[Jay]

Go ahead. Sorry, I didn't say anything.

[Caller]

Okay. I, I don't understand how they're so outspoken about all these different things like self defense. And then you get to the trans issue. There's no one to, to speak up about it. I mean you don't have the, the high, you know, the Pope and, and the cardinals and everybody. Well, I mean you have some cardinals but you have a lot of folks that, that don't espouse any of that. And by the way, self defense, that was a really nice claim that you could make a couple thousand years ago when the punishments were way harsher. You had a system of government that would, that would treat criminals very harshly. So rapes, murders, I mean even theft was dealt with very very harshly. So the fact that self defense nowadays is even looked at the way it is, it just doesn't make any sen. Sense.

[Jay]

But I'm not understand, I don't understand your argument. What, what, what doesn't make sense? Whose position?

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[Caller]

So I don't understand why there's folks that are against the, the argument that we pick up a sword and we, we harshly penalize criminals, thugs, gangsters, defending our home, any, any kind of self defense, I don't care what kind of self defense. I don't understand what the problem is with these, these atheists, these liberals and trying to use God to, to justify going soft on crime.

[Jay]

Well, they are the mouthpiece of the establishment and the establishment promotes pacifism as a technique and a, and a strategy. Strategy to destroy civilizations. That's why.

[Caller]

Right. So I mean that's my point. So yeah, and I'm probably just tired and I'm not making a great point here but I mean you know, self defense, you can debate that. You can't debate the whole trans sexual mutilation point. So my thing is even for the, the Christians, the Catholics out there, you know, is this the hill you want to die on? You want to be so devout that you're going to, to fight on that hill and then you're going to be completely silent on people, trans and kids, without parental consent even. That's destroying God's image. That's not for debate.

[Jay]

Well, there's a, there's a connection there between the pacifism of these fake Marcionite, modern, you know, Roger Williams style, evangelical style, pacifist so called Christians and allowing people to do that to their children. It's the same cowardice that would say you should not defend yourself, you should be a doormat. That would make you the ultimate doormat to allow people to do that to your offspring. So absolutely is connected. Now again, Exodus 22, great passage that's overlooked. People forget that Exodus 22 lays down the principles for self defense. Right? And this is only two chapters after the ten Commandments. Now the moral principle here is still applicable. I'm not saying that everything in the book of Exodus in terms of the ceremonial laws continues on for Christians, but the church has historically understood what does carry on is this type of a moral principle. If a man steals an ox or a sheep and slaughters it, he will, he shall restore fivefold. Jesus, for example, in the New Testament he applauds Zacchaeus when Zacchaeus says if, if I wronged anyone, I restore fivefold right or fourfold, whatever he says he's doing. What was the principle for theft in Exodus 22? So Jesus affirms the goodness of the principle of restitution. Why would Jesus do that if he's coming to establish some totally new pacifist religion that's not based on what came before. If a thief is found breaking in and he is struck so that he dies, there is no guilt for his bloodshed. So actually I would argue no, you can't actually debate self defense. There is no debate. I mean you could be a coward and say that you don't have to defend, you know, people when they're or the defend the weak. But you know, when Saint, Saint Cyril, Methodius, the famous story, the Muslim said you Christians believe in love your neighbor and uh, you're inconsistent because you say turn the cheek and yet you have, you go to war. And I believe it's, if I'm going from memory, it's Saint Cyril says, well Jesus said there's no greater love that a man has than to lay down his life for his friend. And laying down your life doesn't have to mean, you know, pacifistic sacrifice. It can also be in the case of defense, that's the context that Saint Cyril and Methodius say that to the Saracen that they're speaking to, at least that's the story. And I think that illustrates the very point I'm making here. Now, I noticed, by the way, speaking of foundations, think tanks, NGOS and whatnot, trying to train, trying to change things, I noticed Fordham had a symposium the other day, and it was a bunch of these, you know, Skittles, weirdo, liberal women academics, so called. And their whole symposium was about how Christianity has nothing to do with the state and the. That Byzantine law trying to have Christian law was like the worst thing ever. And it was this patriarchal, dominant. It's just so. It was so gay, dude. It was like unbelievable. But that. I mean, that's CIA Jesuit University, right? Fordham University. And their whole thing is Skittles, Pacifism, ecumenism, you name it. Women deacons. Do you not. Guys not see all these things go together? Of course they want the west deracinated and emasculated because then it will be conquered. And what better way to do that than to promote Skittles, feminism, pacifism, ecumenism, all the stuff that we're talking about. And that's the. That's the level most people don't understand. It's not just a question of what theology nerds are debating. It's also a civilizational geopolitical war, right? To change society and to change the West. The liberal ethos is a giant social engineering tool, and people like James Lindsay are mouthpieces of that. They're fake conservatives. Nicholas, what's up? I'm mute.

[Caller]

Hey, Jake, can you hear me?

[Jay]

Yo.

[Caller]

Great to be on here. Really big fan of yours.

[Jay]

I recently became an orthodox Christian and

[Caller]

I go over to a Rokor parish with Metropolitan Jonah and actually, I think your friend Jim.

[Jay]

Yeah, Jim Jotches. Great, great guy. Yes, Jim Jotteris is a great guy. Absolutely. Yeah.

[Caller]

I just have a question because I kind of hopped in.

[Jay]

I heard you guys talking about self defense.

[Caller]

I come from evangelical Christianity, but I'm

[Jay]

kind of really confused on how to synergize.

[Caller]

I guess it's called like pacifism, but I guess I was always under the understanding that, like, when I see Christ on the cross, like I see him sacrificing his life, and I kind of understand that.

[Jay]

I was like, he has all the

[Caller]

authority to kind of rain down vengeance in a way or kind of return.

[Jay]

Okay, so. So I'll pause you right there because this is a perfect example of what I was saying about 10 minutes ago. I'm not. I'm not faulting you for not hearing what we talked about 10 minutes ago. You might have just got here. But there's a time and a place for everything, right? So, for example, I don't take one instance of the Gospel and then say that, for example, the church must at all times, forever, universally only do that thing. If you read the book of Ecclesiastes, it's telling you there's a time for war, a time for peace, a time for mourning and a time for mirth. There's a time for those things. And yes, Jesus is coming as the suffering servant at his first advent to die for us, for sin. That doesn't mean that I'm supposed to be a doormat and always only be a sacrificial victim. So it takes wisdom to know when to apply the right thing to the right situation. And that's why if you read Hebrews 11, you'll notice that not everybody who's lauded and praised in the list there of the hall of Faith, they're not all pacifists. There are situations where, in some situations, some cases, like the woman in Maccabees, she accepted martyrdom to have a greater resurrection. But there were other situations where saints were put into a. A providential situation where they were called to go to battle, and they are lauded and praised for driving out the foreigner and defending their lands. Hebrews 11. The history of the church is replete with all kinds of saints, martyrs, and saint kings. It's. It runs the gamut. So, and I'm not faulting you, but evangelicalism does this all the time where they act like children when they read the Bible and they take one verse and they think that that's the one moral thing that you must always do in every situation. They universalize it.

[Caller]

It.

[Jay]

Don't judge, brother, don't judge. Don't judge. Don't judge. Okay, yeah, I'm not supposed to judge in the sense of being a hypocrite. If you have the same sin, you can't judge that person. But you're also suppos called to judge in other cases. John 7:24. Judge with righteous judgment. Well, how can I judge a righteous judgment if I'm not supposed to judge? Okay, this is how you interpret books and everybody.

[Caller]

That's the verse.

[Jay]

Go ahead about.

[Caller]

Don't you have to judge the verse? Don't make a judgment about the verse. About judgment. Yeah.

[Jay]

Or like when, when Solomon says in Proverbs, avoid the fool. Well, how can I avoid the fool if I Don't judge someone to be a fool. Well, how can I judge someone to be a fool if I'm not judging? It's just silly. Like people act like children.

[Caller]

What's so silly too is like you said, they take it out of context. Right. They're always quote mining. It explains right after there.

[Jay]

Yeah.

[Caller]

In as much as you judge, you'll be judged in the same standard. So if you judge righteously and correctly, you'll be judged by that same standard. So it's not, it actually shows that it's not an absolute. I mean literally in the next line of the. But like, of course people read what they want to read into.

[Jay]

Yes. Yeah. They don't have basic interpretive hermeneutic skills. Right. To interpret a text. Text according to the context, according to the totality of that book and according to the totality of scriptures in the tradition of the church. Right. All those things inform how we read the text.

[Caller]

That's why, you know, I keep going with this, this argument lately when Protestants like, let's go to the scripture. I'm like, why you're. And you can't read. Why would we go to the one thing that you obviously can't. And you see, when you get debates, it's just going to be like, go, oh, that's not what it means. It means, it means this. It's like, well, you obviously can't read. How about that?

[Jay]

Saint Minas is the Roman armor army warrior saint, regarded as a martyr, wonder, worker and warrior saint. He's one of many, many, many examples. And I thank you for this in the chat there because people bring this stuff up all the time and it's like they don't even recognize that. I mean, saints. Stephen of Serbia, right, king of Serbia.

[Caller]

St Stephen Ch is, sorry, mixed my Romanian Stephen the Great from Romania. Mova.

[Jay]

How could you have a king saint if kings and the state were satanic and not of God? It's so stupid. Like, it's just childish.

[Caller]

You know what? He was known too. He literally destroyed Muslims. And every time he destroyed a group of Muslims, he brought the church to God and thank God for allowing him to destroy Muslims.

[Jay]

This is exactly right. And this is another reason why the technocrats and the social engineers want us to be pacifists is precisely because they want the west conquered by Islam by design. So they know that Islam has that aggression and they want the Christians and all these. Could you imagine evangelical Gavin Ortland Christianity standing up against Islam? No. It's the very thing that lets them the doors open in Byzantium to let him in. Gavin Ortland's open borders type of softness. And he had that famous tweet about being soft on immigration. That's to let the people in, you idiots. So the fake Christians and by the way, Ruslan too. Ruslan had the exact same soft ass position on this stuff because those are the mouthpieces to let you get conquered. And they're paid very well to do that, in my opinion.

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[Jay]

and this was the clip or the image that everybody was was seeing of Conor McGregor where there looks like there's some orthodox implements there. Like he's next to Lady, Our lady of Kazan. And then see, it's hard to tell what I mean there is an icon there, but I can't tell if that's like a Roman Catholic missile or what those prayer books are. And looks like he's getting an orthodox blessing. But this has led to everybody speculating about what's going on here. We don't know again, I mean he could still just be Roman Catholic and being like, you know, oh, we're all the same and it's all the same stuff. Yeah. I mean, I can't tell what that is, but I mean, yeah, I hope he comes becomes ortho. That'd be great. Adi, what's up,

[Caller]

Yo?

[Jay]

I was talking to this one guy

[Caller]

and he's a PhD in philosophy. He's more like Marxist leaning and he recommended this book about Zen Buddhism. I got to listening to it and it was presenting this dichotomy of monism and dualism.

[Jay]

I just wanted to ask you, why

[Caller]

does dualism necessarily collapse into monism?

[Jay]

Well, because it relativizes the two principles. And so if good and evil are dualist oppositions, then then ultimately in the grand scheme they need each other. And if, if, if good needs evil and if evil needs good, then it's relativized and they're, they're both the same.

[Caller]

I see what kind of firearm you carry? You said you carry Some sort of Walter.

[Jay]

I carry a giant bazooka on me at all times. Epistemic. What's up? I got a bazooka in my pants at all times. What's up? Epistemic. Oh, you guys are saying the heliocentric video. Yeah, I watched half of that heliocentric video. I didn't realize he went into that. Let's see what he says. Interesting. Let's find that. Here we go. Go ahead. Epistemic.

[Caller]

Hey, I had some talk on the Mauler and JP uncut stuff.

[Jay]

Speak up, man. I can't hear you. You have a. You have a. You have a garbage microphone.

[Caller]

Yeah, I'm in my phone in the car, so it might be. Is it. Is it picking up at all?

[Jay]

Barely. What's. What's your comment?

[Caller]

Yeah, so I was. I was digging into the hole.

[Jay]

Huh.

[Caller]

And I hopped on one of their streams to talk with them and just kind of. Kind of hear the story. And, you know, if any of their people are listening to this, I don't want them to think that I'm like two faced or whatever because they'll, you know, be able to recognize me. But there's some weird dudes, I gotta say, after. After taking some time to talk to them and then. And then really think it over. There's.

[Jay]

They're.

[Caller]

They're weird.

[Jay]

I call them a weirdo because they're weird.

[Caller]

And they're also like. I had a discord conversation with Mauler in his discord channel, and the dude is so terminally online that he thinks that like, some of the, like, you know, I think we can all agree there's some, like, very few whack job, like, terminally online ortho bro type people out there who are just like, insane, right?

[Jay]

Sure. Every group has that. Sure, every group has that.

[Caller]

And yeah, yeah, you're right. He spent so much time, like permanently online interacting with them that he actually think that they represent. And I'm not joking, he told me this. He thinks that around 80% of all of the Orthodox conversions that are happening are actually those insane people.

[Jay]

Yeah, but I mean, these guys are like the lowest tier argumentation out there. They're not even worth interacting with or dealing with. They're just trying to make a big stink because they're in their. Their Ruslan's butt buddies. So they're in that orbit. Chad, what's up? They just want attention. Red ward says for $5, Lutherans are bound to the Book of Concord. It teaches the true understanding. We believe the Bible is the Pre Council of Trent view. There is no pre Council of Trent view that like the. This is silly. The pre Council of Trent view is what the orthodox church teaches. How can the. These are people are idiots.

[Caller]

Find you if Luther said. Yeah, it's never good to act against my conscience. Here I stand. I can do.

[Jay]

Yeah, this is the contradiction that we always point out. Exactly. We'll go to Chad and then ministry. Chad, what's up?

[Caller]

Hey, you can hear me, huh? Thanks for taking my call. I've been a fan for a long time. I just wanted to ask, have you seen this John fan Fugal San guy?

[Jay]

I've heard this name. Who is he?

[Caller]

He is like a pop culture liberal left Christian. You can see him on CNN and MSNBC all the time and he has a book out. I mean dude, you would. Andrew. Andrew debated him. It was ridiculous. He's like a super far left progressive that just does the hippie Jesus thing. But yeah, Andrew debated that guy and wrecked him.

[Jay]

So these are the actual Marcionites people like this.

[Caller]

Yeah, I would do. I mean I doubt he would ever do it, but I would love to see you debate him in a real debate.

[Jay]

Oh, this guy. I remember this debate now. This, this goofy looking guy here.

[Caller]

Yeah, not appears morgan 2 minute clip cycle but like a real sit down and get to like the meat and potatoes type of debate. You would buzz saw this dude.

[Jay]

He.

[Caller]

He does the classic like. Well, Jesus wouldn't like that because that's not very nice.

[Jay]

Yeah, I mean, yeah, I would definitely debate that guy. I'll try to reach out and see but like you said, like he probably won't do a serious formal debate. David, what's up man? Or ministry? When I. Mute.

[Caller]

Yeah, what's up, Jay?

[Jay]

Yep. Right, Yeah, I forgot about this debate. This was a classic. I think we covered some of this on one of one of the live streams. Go ahead.

[Caller]

Yo, can you hear me?

[Jay]

Yeah.

[Caller]

How does, how does orthodoxy. I'm trying to phrase it properly, but how does free will work in the orthodox system? I'm agnostic, I'm learning into. I'm trying to like become orthodox, but I'm not sure about it yet, to be honest.

[Jay]

I mean again, like we have a lot of videos on that. So you know, free will is essential to human nature. We think that you have to have free will because is part of what makes us human. To have the ability to choose between multiple things or multiple goods. So it's a, it's a feature or a tree or a faculty of human nature. And that's why we confess, for example, that Christ had in his human nature a fully free will and energy. Does anybody know where in this video this atheist guy, people are saying that he went to Ruzan's conference and making fun of it. I watched half of this for the first third of this video and he said that he shows that Ruslan is pro choice. Can you tell me where? Because this is a pretty long video. It's like 45 minute video. So somebody can put in the chat where this atheist dude. I'm only playing it because he's. He went through on his video and people are saying that. Or to his conference and people are saying that he showed that Ruslan is actually still pro life. I mean pro, pro choice. Excuse me, but let's see. Maybe we can ask the AI you know, they have that like. Let's see. Where does this video. Where does this video discuss abortion? Maybe that'll work. The brid. The video briefly discusses abortion from 25:48. Is that it? That doesn't sound like it. That sounds like it's. Let's see all around.

[Caller]

Also about this time. This was said from stage.

[Jay]

This is an exact quote.

[Caller]

Modern feminism is men suck, kill all the babies and be trans.

[Jay]

This dude is like garbage. But where, where is this thing you're talking about? I'm looking in the chat to see where you guys are saying to go to. He does it twice. Can you just tell me a timestamp, bro? I can't watch a 45 minute video all the way through. This guy's like the epitome of a Reddit person trying to be funny. And it's not funny. It's like the, the only. They think the only thing that's funny is just like smug condescension. That's the only thing that they think is funny.

[Caller]

I am about to take the Lord's name in bane so hard right now. You know what? Really?

[Jay]

Oh, that's so edgy, dude. It's so funny.

[Caller]

It makes me want to be a, a, a, a traditional man. When somebody depicts feminism as being the

[Jay]

most knuckle dragging glue huffing ideology out there, man. Can you. Yeah, but it is like, there's nothing sophisticated or academic about it because it's an absolute brainwashing program.

[Caller]

Imagine depicting someone's ideology accurately and in good faith.

[Jay]

Of course not.

[Caller]

That'd be stupid, idiot, dumb.

[Jay]

And like, it's an evangelical conference.

[Caller]

Right?

[Jay]

And so there were several things like that.

[Caller]

I don't know, man. It's like my skin is thicker than most.

[Jay]

I Can kind of deal with, you

[Caller]

know, the, the crap.

[Jay]

Oh, he's a gay guy. 33 minutes in you're saying, let's see if that's it. To be the person to like need to point this out.

[Caller]

That, that was like here 10 minutes ago.

[Jay]

Here 33 12.

[Caller]

Significance of Jainism on our modern practices of non violence and non retaliation. You don't get to retroactively claim credit for Aristotelian philosophy's contributions to human ethics.

[Jay]

And like the Jainism, we're supposed to be like, Christianity is taking credit for stealing Jainism's pacifism. Who teaches pacifism? We've been. Wait, what? This is. This dude, I don't know why, why did he leave? If he's gay, why do you leave? Evangelicalism? Because they're all gay. Like he would, he should have been, he'd be right at home.

[Caller]

That's passed around a lot, which is basically that all of modern ethics derives its core foundational values from Christianity.

[Jay]

And it's so frustrating, right, because it

[Caller]

overstates its case just enough that I feel the need to correct it.

[Jay]

Like, okay, people are saying two different time places. 6, 17 and 33. Okay, we'll try 617 first. Let's try that.

[Caller]

Who were ardent Zionists and then some who were ardently pro Palestine.

[Jay]

I even met a few people who

[Caller]

were like quietly pro choice.

[Jay]

Yeah, but who's he talking about? He doesn't say who. I saw this part of the video

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[Jay]

And then you're saying 3312. Let's see.

[Caller]

Hey, did you know that we get to take credit for that? I'm not any more interested in converting to Christianity, especially if it's like just

[Jay]

straight up not true.

[Caller]

And then confusingly, Ruslan mentioned, you know how in the Middle east gay people are treated notoriously badly. And I, I, I, I, I shouldn't have to be the person to like

[Jay]

need to point this out. That that was like here it was

[Caller]

like 10 minutes ago.

[Commercial Announcer]

Here, their son Matthew Shepard was robbed,

[Jay]

beaten, tied to a fence, and left to die.

[Commercial Announcer]

The anti gay hate crime became a

[Jay]

Ruslan argued that Middle Eastern gays are not treated well. That was an actual Ruslan argument.

[Caller]

Howling cry for activists.

[Jay]

There's no such thing as gay rights. People use that as a buzzword, as a flash word. It's equal rights.

[Caller]

That it was illegal to be gay and. And practicing, like, sodomy laws are very recent.

[Jay]

And this is just the most confusing

[Caller]

thing in the world to me that, like, credit wants to be taken for nations like Sweden and Norway and how

[Jay]

well they treat gay people, while at

[Caller]

the same time, Christians in America are fighting to. To repeal safeguards against my queer friends.

[Jay]

Like, it's no safeguards against your queer friends getting children, you goober.

[Caller]

Very bizarre to me to want to,

[Jay]

like, claim credit for how well the

[Caller]

LGBTQ crowd in Norway and Sweden are

[Jay]

treated and then at the same time

[Caller]

actively disagree with those policies that make them treated so well. But then again, I'm, like, not interested in having this conversation.

[Jay]

Like, this isn't my shtick, so where I still not. I'm not finding what you guys are talking about with him saying that Ruslan was pro abortion or pro gay. I doesn't. I mean, if you mean that he says that they're not treated fair in the Middle East. Is that what you're talking about? Muta with the she. Muta with the Shia tonight. All right, if you guys find the actual time stamp, let me know because I haven't seen it yet, but we'll move on to the next call. Outic. What's up? Unmute, Out. Out. Whatever. Unmute, man. Do you want to talk or not? All right, we've had almost 2, 000 the entire night, so that's good. I appreciate you guys joining me. Fun crowd, Julian. What's up, guys? Would hit like and share. You can support us String through super chats as well. Super. Just done through streamlabs right there. Well, now, that's actually this video. Let me give you the link. What's up? I'm you. Julian. Julian. Do you want to talk or no?

[Caller]

What's up?

[Jay]

Hey, what's up?

[Caller]

Hey, how's it going? It didn't work out, dude.

[Jay]

Is everybody calling from the freaking. From the Pakistan side of. Of the moon? Like, what. What. What's going on, dude?

[Caller]

Sorry.

[Jay]

I'm sorry. It's. You're better now. What's up?

[Caller]

Is it better now?

[Jay]

A little bit.

[Caller]

I just got a quick question. I noticed there's been Kind of this

[Jay]

trend online lately that I don't notice

[Caller]

in the real world about. I noticed you're. You've spoken out a lot about how

[Jay]

Orthodox don't believe in infant damnation and stuff. I've been seeing a lot of people

[Caller]

really coming out hard in favor of

[Jay]

the confession of Dositheus. Being dogmatic. Yeah. It doesn't say infants are damned. So again, go read.

[Caller]

So they're also paid by the Southern poverty.

[Jay]

Go watch Alex Soren's giant video on this. They just did a giant video. It's father Stephen DeYoung.

[Caller]

So, actually, Jay and I. I make kind of a joke about that, but we're starting to think these are paid subversives.

[Jay]

Well, again, yeah, they're going to attempt the same strategy of division that they did in the. In Orthodox world in Ukraine. They're gonna do the exact same thing in America and Orthodoxy. And so they're gonna utilize unstable, mentally unstable creeps, weirdos. You know, keep in mind, unhinged people

[Caller]

are either closet homosexuals or furries on ssri.

[Jay]

Yeah. Mentally unstable SSRI people are every one

[Caller]

of them, like, and. But, you know, that's what's hilarious about people's discernment, like, for, like, a large percent of Orthodox, that's where they go, you know, where we should go get our theology from? Not from clerk, not living clergy, but from furries and closet homo on SSRIs that are 17 years old. Like. Like, God help you if, like, you think that's the way for. In life. Why people listen to. It's amazing, too, that you, like, as one monk said, you don't touch poop, because if you touch poop, you get poop on your hand. But people like to follow these people. I don't get it. So. But the more people interact with them, I'm not saying you in person, but the more people out there interact or even follow them, you're complicit at some level. Because if everybody just ignored these wackos, like, there would be nothing.

[Jay]

Exactly. Everybody's just making the 6, 7 joke. They're not giving actual time frame. They're just in 67. Jay, it's the last third of the video. He makes a case about evangelicalism being cheese, which was funny, By the way. I thought it was funny that Ruslan was taking shots at me about having Zen packs. I don't have Zen packs, but I have Alps. And then there was. Somebody put this clip up Ruslan with his cigars. So I'm gonna re. Smoke this cigar in honor Of Ruth Lawn smoking a cigar.

[Caller]

One cigar. I don't need to smoke black. And Miles. I don't need to smoke hookah. I don't need to smoke nicotine scene.

[Jay]

I don't.

[Caller]

I don't have a desire to smoke anything. I'm not putting any smoke in my lungs, like, at all.

[Jay]

Like, I don't.

[Caller]

I don't see the value of that. Like, why put smoke in your lungs? That.

[Jay]

Just think. That's.

[Caller]

That's just gross.

[Jay]

Like, that's. To me, that's just disgust.

[Caller]

I'm not putting smoke in my lungs. I don't care what it is.

[Jay]

Like, I'm not smoking cigars regularly. I don't think you guys understand that, nor am I drinking. I despise alcohol. And even if he isn't inhaling, it's just another example of being willing to break his own rules for the right reasons. Anyhow, I hope this will be the.

[Caller]

But I'm in Oceanside, California, and the church that I was going to was Rhythm Church. So I have a little bit of insight about, like, what's going on and whatnot.

[Jay]

Please tell us about what exactly is this? Is this. Is. Is this a rap church? What is rhythm? Ruslan's Rhythm Church.

[Caller]

But yeah, it was. I mean, it's. It wasn't too bad, but it was interesting a few times. What's weird is they do the five minute spiel about how you gotta donate all your money at the end. They put up the QR code and everything. And then I listened to Ruslan speak once or twice. And a lot of times he was just pushing his book. So it is definitely a weird thing. But I'm glad that all this stuff came out.

[Jay]

Is it business church?

[Caller]

Because it really brought to light all business church bull crap that goes on.

[Jay]

So it is business Church.

[Caller]

Just. Yeah, almost 100. I. I think I was kind of blind to it because there was another church not that far from Rhythm Church called Coast City and Coast City. One service was dedicated to a coffee shop that they were opening up. They maybe read a Bible verse, and then the rest of it was just about their coffee shop, which is even worse.

[Jay]

But, yeah, Rhythm Church.

[Caller]

And I'm definitely glad that I started inquiring. And then all this stuff came out because it really brought to light all this.

[Jay]

Cause it's the rhythm of the night. My life oh, yeah Rhythm is gonna get you Rhythm is gonna get you Rusen is gonna get you tonight how many rhythm songs? Rhythm is a dancer. It's a soul's companion. You can feel it in the air.

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[Jay]

Who's next? Chasmo. My Chasmo. So people are saying the breaking news right now, there's another apparent attempt on Trump. Adult there's an assassination attempt on Trump allegedly in the news. Are y' all trolling me? I never. You can never know when people are trolling or whether that's really happening. Chasmo. You want to mute. Ruslan's about black and mild. He talking about me.

[Caller]

How you doing, Jay?

[Jay]

I'm black and mild right now. What's up?

[Caller]

I've got a comment and a question. One is I grew up Baptist and me and my wife started going to

[Jay]

a local Catholic church.

[Caller]

And I didn't really believe you when you said they were trying to make a one world religion until a couple prayers that popped up. So one was we pray for our Muslim brothers and sisters as they go into Ramadan. And I.

[Jay]

So he left and I was like, what was that?

[Caller]

You know what I mean? Because if I was gonna steal man it, you know, I don't think there's anything wrong for praying.

[Jay]

They're not praying for them to be converted.

[Caller]

They're not come to the faith.

[Jay]

They're not. Yeah, they're not praying for conversion.

[Caller]

Exactly. Exactly. And I was like, it feels like you just co signed Ramadan, you know?

[Jay]

Absolutely. That's crazy.

[Caller]

And then the second one was that we pray that the Jews have a meaningful Passover.

[Jay]

That was another one because I was

[Caller]

like, if we're praying for people outside of the faith, it should be to bring them into the faith.

[Jay]

Yeah. The only meaningful Passover is Pasco, which is the liturgy and which is the Eucharist. So that's the. That shows you that they don't believe in the faith fulfillment of, you know, the church being the fulfillment of Passover, which is the Eucharist.

[Caller]

Right, Exactly.

[Jay]

So then I went to my first Russian Orthodox liturgy last week, which was unreal. And then we're going to a Greek Orthodox church tomorrow.

[Caller]

But my Question is, why did you go to Russian Orthodox?

[Jay]

Was it just that that you found

[Caller]

the best church in your area that kind of like spoke to you, or was it something specific about the Russian Orthodox Church or.

[Jay]

Well, I went to all the Orthodox churches in Florida around me, and that one ended up being the best fit because I had a really good synergy with the priest there, Father Vladimir. But also, you know, there's aspects of Rokor that I. That I really appreciate. For example, they still have the early 1980s decree against ecumenism. So the official stance of Rokor is anti ecumenist. But also, you know, Orthodox person can go to any, any liturgy. So I think tomorrow we will probably go to the Antiochian liturgy tomorrow. So it's not that you have to do that. It's just, you know, most people, unless they live in a giant city, like, they're kind of limited in their options and. Yeah, that's why. Or you could just say it's because I work for the kgb, if you want to say that.

[Caller]

True. Which might be correct.

[Jay]

Right. So

[Caller]

last thing, something that's interesting to me about Ruslan is the first time

[Jay]

I heard him talk growing up, you

[Caller]

know, in a Baptist church, it really reminded me of, which I'm sure you're

[Jay]

familiar with, like the guys that try

[Caller]

and be cool within the church, you know, and you're like, you're kind of appealing to people that wouldn't be cool.

[Jay]

Yeah, every. Everyone is a youth. Everyone is a youth minister. They're all basically the way youth ministers are.

[Caller]

Yes, exactly. Exactly. And the first time I listened to him, I was like, oh, I've seen like 100 of these.

[Jay]

Yeah, exactly. And by the way, thank you for that call there, Chazbo. Appreciate that. Here is the Abu Dhabi Faith center that they built, showing you that it's an attempted one world religion. Watch this. I mean, imagine debating with these people that Nostra Tate and Lumen gentium don't mean that we all worship the same God. And it's actually they're trying to convert the Muslims in a covert trust. The plan way. It's a Qanon Vatican. No, they're making giant temples to the monotheistic tri religious deity. Literally the Abrahamic faith Center. Like what are you talking about is the Vatican. This is what Alex Warren always says. Right. Notice how the way the Vatican talks and operates. It's night and day from their cope apologists in America. Junior, what's up?

[Caller]

I am called into point out the obvious. It was rhythm is a pastor.

[Jay]

Rhythm is a Pastor, it's a Ruslan. You can feel him in the air. Thank you.

[Caller]

The rhythm. The rhythm of the tithe.

[Jay]

Rhythm of the tide.

[Caller]

No. You know what's hilarious? Do you know what the biggest church is in Helena, Montana?

[Jay]

A megachurch?

[Caller]

Well, yeah. What. What the name of it is?

[Jay]

Bless Blessed Harvest Seed Chapel.

[Caller]

What?

[Jay]

I don't know.

[Caller]

Dream Harvest. It's literally called Buffalo Church.

[Jay]

Dude, Buffalo Church.

[Caller]

Oh, yeah, there's cowboys. There's no even biblical names. And the. Where.

[Jay]

Yeah, well, where is Buffalo in the Bible exactly? Well, all throughout this. The Bible Belt, we have motorcycle biker church, cowboy church. There's all that in the Bible Belt.

[Caller]

But they're literally named that. Like. Yeah, cowboy. Cowboy church is a big thing, actually.

[Jay]

Cowboy church is named that. Yeah, they actually are named that.

[Caller]

I think here we in Buffalo Church, we wish we don't worship the cross or Christ, we worship the beast. You know what the motto for cowboy church is? They don't realize that they're actually grungers. Is it says, come as you are.

[Jay]

Yeah, I've got it. I mean, that John's right. I've seen them all throughout Texas, and I don't know if we have any in Tennessee. There's not a lot of cowboys in Tennessee, but, like, we have, like, biker church in Tennessee, I think. Actually in Paducah, I saw a cowboy church or something.

[Caller]

John, remember Set Free Ministries came out of the Vineyard. Yes, Vineyard came out of. Yeah, so. And Stephen used to have skateboard ramps. I used to go skate there.

[Jay]

Look, right here. Jackson, Tennessee, Boneyard Biker Church. It's called the Boneyard Boner Biker Church.

[Caller]

No, Remember FDA Set Free used to have skateboard ramps at church? Yeah, yeah, I remember that, actually. Do you remember that? Yeah. So, Jay, remember when you were making that video of, like, church?

[Jay]

Yeah.

[Caller]

And they had, like, the filth pool. Yeah.

[Jay]

Randy Balls slide and stuff that.

[Caller]

Yeah, we actually. They actually had that. They had the filth. Filth board ramp.

[Jay]

No, people don't realize. Like, all over the Bible Bell, dude. There's, like, biker churches everywhere. Like, here's, like. Here's a. Here's one in Maine. So here's. They're all over Texas. Here's Harley Davidson Backer church. I'm just waiting. I'm just waiting for the Spirit Halloween Church. When are we gonna go to Spirit Halloween Church?

[Caller]

You know Christian Hosoi is a pastor, right? Fda. Who? Christian Josoy, the pro skater. Oh, funny. Hey, he's got. He's got skateboard. He's got skateboard church. Pull up the vato, dude, that's like break, like, does the popping and breaking.

[Jay]

He's a. He's a. Yeah. There's Cholo church. I'm serious. Yeah, and there's like, like outreach. Yeah. John said. Like John said. And if you go to Florida, there's a surfer church too. In Florida. Dang, dude. They're actually having cowboy church in a barn.

[Caller]

Dude.

[Jay]

Look at that. I guess it makes sense that cowboy church would be in a barn, right? Like, what other building would it be in?

[Caller]

What group do they not have yet? What kind of group?

[Jay]

This is so bizarre, dude. It's so. And it's so amer. It's so American too. You know, this doesn't exist. And it's really in Europe, right? Like, they don't have cowboy church in Europe. There's no cowboys. But it's such an American thing to like create a religion around like your hobby. Right? Like, like what's a weirdo basket. Basket weaving church.

[Caller]

If you wanted to be a grifter, you could go and set up cowboy church in the uk. I bet they would.

[Jay]

Yeah, they would love that because they have a fascination with. With cowboys and all. They, they think, like, they think America is like, you know, cowboys and like everybody, like people ride their horses to. Somebody was talking about coming to America as from Europe, from the uk because they've never been here. They thought it'd be funny and they actually thought that the. And people in Texas, they. They think that we don't have bathrooms and we ride horses everywhere. Like, they actually thought this.

[Caller]

Do they have any rave churches?

[Jay]

Yeah, didn't you see that a bunch of Roman Catholic churches are turning into that?

[Caller]

It's called Roman Catholicism.

[Jay]

Yeah, exactly. Have you not seen that the Roman Cali priest is a big dj.

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[Caller]

Yeah, I forgot about that.

[Jay]

Yeah, but I don't know if there's

[Caller]

a very, very, very sad for me to see Roman Catholic nuns dancing at a rave at the Vatican. Yeah, it's A stain on raves, I can agree. And all edm.

[Jay]

Oh, here's the Roman Cali priest that does it in Slovakia. All right, well, the video doesn't want to play. Here we go.

[Caller]

Oh, they should have some of the church dude, where everybody dresses up in, like, lab coats.

[Jay]

Look, hold on, hold on. Look at this. Come upon you and remain with you always.

[Caller]

Amen.

[Jay]

This is rape. Roman Catholic grave church with. Who's this priest?

[Caller]

Father. Father paul oakenfold.

[Jay]

Father paul oakenfold. That was good. Yeah. I was trying to think of, like, big DJs and my mind went blank. But, yeah, Paul Oakenfold's like a classic 2000s era DJ for sure. Somebody made this good. Speaking of the ecumenism, the guy that just called in about ecumenism, this was a great video that I think it might be. AI. I can't tell with the voice or whatever, but. Golden, do you want to talk? And then we'll watch a little bit of this video about Hinduism and charismaticism and yoga and the ecumenist movement. What's up, man? Golden.

[Caller]

Oh, hey. Can you hear me? Hey. So I was calling. I'm kind of in a place. I come from a Reformed Baptist background, and I've been. I visited a Antiochian Orthodox church once. I'm kind of getting into the inquisitor process. I was just going to comment. The thing that kind of drove me away from Protestantism, or at least the evangelical church was kind of something that you've hit on before is I started out when I was about 19. I'm sorry, I was laughing.

[Jay]

I'm laughing at the chats coming up with names for Christian DJs, and they're cracking me up because it's like somebody said Pope Diplo. Somebody said Moby the 23rd. Go ahead.

[Caller]

Yeah, sorry. So when I was about 19 to 21, I was an associate pastor for Reformed Baptist Church. Really? Associate pastor is not even the right word. I was just in training, and so that meant he would. The head pastor would let me sometimes preach on Sundays. As I was doing that, and which is my first issue, was how easy it is to get into that and start teaching people. Because I had no clue what I was talking about.

[Jay]

I thought that I did, but I didn't.

[Caller]

It was also kind of something you hit on a couple of days ago, which was for me at that age, it was like the edgy choice to say of like, oh, yeah, of course God creates people just to destroy them. Because it was almost like the edgy were different than the other Protestants thing to say. It wasn't actually a real deep theology.

[Jay]

Right.

[Caller]

But when I got older, the issue I started to have is it's kind of an emotional reason, but it pushed me to look into the history, which is that the worship services became the thing that we always get criticized for, which is the rock concert. It's the fake bullshit, like monologue prayers. It's all about me. And you know what I'm talking about. Like we got to play the guitar with some sad notes.

[Jay]

Yes. Performative. Performative prayer.

[Caller]

Praying God, I just want you to feel what I'm saying. Like that type of horseshit that's so put on. It's so fake.

[Jay]

It's performative praying.

[Caller]

Yes, Extremely performant. The altar calls where we're gonna again have the music playing kind of soft and sad in the background to like try and manufacture an emotional response in people to like, I guess force them to come and confess in front of everybody at the altar so that it looks like we're getting some movement in the church. I guess that's. It pissed me off so bad because I was looking for like, can we not take this serious? Like, can this not be a serious thing that, you know, we're here to worship God? It's not. It shouldn't be a show about me, me, me. I mean, I mean, for God's sake. The church that I was at actually would do. I don't know if you've ever experienced this, but they would do special songs, right? So they'd have. Does someone from the congregation want to come up and do a special song presentation as like the end of the wor worship service? You know, it was so self centered, so Americanized. So the. Oh, that's leading to. That's what pushed me away from Protestantism at an emotional level was just that I. I wasn't finding the, the seriousness that I was looking for the. I can't think of the word now, but the reverence for the subject matter. So that was what. When I visited the Antiochian Orthodox Church that's near me for the first time, it was exactly what I had been looking for. It was like, this is not about the individuals that are here. It's about, we're all here for the purpose of participating in the liturgy, which is reverential and it feels kind of ancient and serious. So that emotionally resonated with me. But that did ironically kind of push me because the reform background that I came from was so. Well, we actually believe what the original reformers believed. It was that type of Stuff like we actually read history, but that actually ironically was the second half of that that pushed me into, well, I want to read the history. And so that kind of mind breaking realization that all these. Oh, we, we repeat the Nicene Creed and we repeat all of these things, but we don't actually believe 90% of what they taught. And so that cherry picking element that you've hit on before. So I didn't really have a question. It was just kind of. I hear some of these things that you've talked about before that just seem to. One for one. Exactly. Describe my current kind of trying to break away from the Protestant church.

[Jay]

Yeah, well, that's good, man.

[Caller]

I appreciate what you do, man.

[Jay]

Well, thank you, Golden. Appreciate that. And yeah, I think a lot of people do find, you know, Antiochian churches usually are a pretty good transition from Protestant. You know, that's all out of Nashville, actually, the giant Antiochian church. And Franklin is kind of the hub of the evangelicals that converted and we have a lot of friends that go to that church, but it's pretty far from us, so. And also we have, you know, really close friends at the Rokor parish in Nashville. But David says for $10. Jay, it's your favorite Israeli. Wanted to talk to you about the real presence. Why is it not cannibalism? Well, we say in the liturgy that it's the noetic, rational, noetic sacrifice. So it's not a human sacrifice. We're not consuming the limbs of a. In a cannibalistic sense. We're partaking of the mystical supper of the deified flesh of the God man. So we're partaking of the uncreated energies. So that would be my answer. Chris says for $10 I want to go to Orthodox liturgy. Should I go to OCA or Greek Orthodox or what's close? Check them all out in the Phil says Sam Shimon was trying to defend Vatican II tonight. Well, good luck with that. It says the opposite of what he's spent 20 years arguing that Allah is a demon and now he's got to accept that it's not a demon, it's actually the one true God. NIFS $5. Thank you for this free concert. 40 Crush $5. Capcom made the Resident Evil game with mother daughter and pragmata A father daughter. Is that pronatalist propaganda? I don't understand the question. I don't know what a mother daughter simulator pragmata is. You would have to enlighten me on what that means. 40 crush. I'm not sure Aonomat what's up? I was a diorite before. It was cool. I. I would. I know a lot of people use that term joking. But I wouldn't use it just because the people are gonna capitalize on it and say it's a cult. Copala says for $10 twice. Jay, I texted you an email. On partnership with a brand. We are a new snack on the market, setting a new Standard in the US kapala originals.com Godspeed well, I mean, I'll check that out. Right now I have chalk as our sponsor, but there's nothing necessarily antithetical to chalk and perhaps something like that. But I'll take a look and see. And you sent that super jet twice. Appreciate that, Terry. $10. Jay, I'm a recovering Thomas. The other night you said the modern world requires a modern response in terms of epistemology or metaphysics. Could you talk about that? Yeah. I just meant that Thomism is a medieval system that operated in the ancient medieval worldview, which was to tend to put metaphysics as a given and put that before epistemology. By the time of Descartes and Kant and Hume, everything shifts to where people say, you can't put your metaphysical cart before your epistemic horse. And the shift occurs in terms of questioning anything in terms of skepticism. Right.

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