Pt 3 OPEN DEBATE/QnA! Godlogic/Evangelicals, Catholics & Muslims are ALL WRONG!

Summary

Jay'sAnalysis – Pt 3 OPEN DEBATE/QnA! Godlogic/Evangelicals, Catholics & Muslims are ALL WRONG!

Host: Jay Dyer
Date: August 13, 2026
Episode Theme:
A wide-ranging, live debate and Q&A examining fundamental disagreements between Orthodox, Catholic, Evangelical, and Muslim perspectives—specifically on authority, church history, doctrine, and the pitfalls of modern apologetics. The episode features civil discussions with callers, scriptural and historical analysis, as well as frequent commentary on the contemporary state of online religious debate.

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Episode Overview

Main Theme:
Jay Dyer leads an open Q&A and debate session tackling major points of contention between Orthodox, Catholic, Evangelical, and Muslim Christianity, as well as some discussion of modern religious debates. The primary focus centers on ecclesial authority, ecumenical councils, the papacy, Trinitarian theology, and the interpretation of tradition. Jay interacts with various callers to highlight why, from his Orthodox perspective, all other camps have critical flaws.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Authority & The Ecumenical Councils

Timestamps:

• Starts at [00:53] and runs through several segments

• Constantinople's Authority Without Rome

  • Jay explains that the 1st Council of Constantinople made key theological decisions and canons—even without the approval or ratification of Rome at the time.
  • “The church at Constantinople one did all of this and dogmatized the official doctrine of the monarchical trinity out of communion with Rome, didn't care what Rome said…” — Jay Dyer [01:40]

• Debunking the Papal Ecumenical Paradigm

  • Jay challenges the Catholic view that only councils ratified by the pope are ecumenical.
  • He presents Lateran 649 (called by Pope Martin), which condemned monothelitism but was not accepted as ecumenical by later papal or church consensus. Instead, Constantinople III (686) re-addressed the topic, suggesting the Church did not use a Vatican I papal paradigm.
  • “If papalism is true, there’s no need for Constantinople 3, because Lateran 649 should have settled the issue. That’s the argument.” — Jay Dyer [06:45]

2. The Letters of Basil and Papal Authority

Timestamps:

• Begins at [07:12], deep dive through [19:30]

• Basil’s Appeals to Antioch and Rome

  • Jay and a caller examine Basil the Great’s letters, which call Antioch the “head” of the body (honorific, rhetorical—not doctrinal).
  • Jay argues Roman Catholics selectively interpret such epistolary honorifics when convenient for papalism.
  • “If we just heal the problems in Antioch, the entire body of the Church... This is called honorifics. I'm just giving you an example of the type of language that's very selectively used by Roman Catholics.” — Jay Dyer [09:46]

• Basil on Rome’s Fallibility

  • Jay highlights Basil’s disappointment with the Pope (Damasus) as evidence against papal infallibility.
  • “He’s saying that I appealed to Rome and Rome has completely failed.” — Jay Dyer [16:25]
  • “Basil wouldn't have problems saying that Rome can fail because he doesn't believe in Vatican one papal supremacy.” — Jay Dyer [16:36]

• One Holy Catholic Apostolic Church Not Identified with Rome

  • Jay notes that Basil, a key author of that phrase in the Creed, criticizes Rome—contradicting any notion of Rome as the focus of “one holy Catholic Apostolic church.”
  • “When I read their writings, they certainly don't believe one holy Catholic apostolic church is essentially and primarily Rome.” — Jay Dyer [19:30]

3. Debate on Trinitarian Theology East vs. West

Timestamps:

• [22:28]–[31:40]

• Cappadocian Model vs. Augustinian/Thomistic Model

  • Discussion of how the 2nd Ecumenical Council (Constantinople I) canonized the Cappadocian Trinitarian doctrine, contrasting it with later Western (Augustinian, Thomistic) developments.
  • Jay argues that acceptance of Constantinople I by Rome undermines later Augustinian innovations.
  • “If Rome accepts the Constantinople model of the Trinity, then you can't have the Augustinian model…” — Jay Dyer [25:40]

• Argument from “Heretical” Schismatics

  • Jay notes that even churches considered schismatic by the Orthodox agree with their Trinitarian theology—suggesting a broader ancient consensus than the Roman Catholic reading.
  • “Even the schismatics... don’t interpret Constantinople one the way Rome does. They interpret it the way we do...” — Jay Dyer [30:43]

4. Ecumenical Acceptance of Councils and Gradualism

Timestamps:

• [27:32]–[29:18]

• Rome’s gradual, partial acceptance of Constantinople I and the associated theological canons.

• Jay references historical sources suggesting Rome took up to 70 years to accept the Creed’s additions and centuries to accept disputed canons.

Memorable Quote:
“In other words, it’s gradual. That’s why this is confusing—actual gradual acceptance of parts of Constantinople I.” — Jay Dyer [29:08]

5. Modern Catholicism, Ecumenism, and Saint Gregory Palamas

Timestamps:

• [37:14]–[45:52]

• Contradictions in Catholic Veneration of Orthodox Saints

  • Jay and a caller are baffled by the Catholic Church’s veneration of figures like Palamas (who called the Filioque “satanic”), which seems at odds with prior dogmatic condemnations.
  • “How could you be a saint after being a heretic for centuries?” — Jay Dyer [41:14]
  • Notes that even “trad” Popes (e.g., Pius X) permitted Russian Catholics to venerate post-schism Orthodox saints—contradicting strict Vatican I doctrine.

6. Debate with Evangelicals and Muslims

Timestamps:

• [35:39]–[37:14] and later sections

• Critique of “God Logic” and Evangelical Debaters

  • Jay discusses the tendency for some modern apologists to adopt Protestant Zionism and refuse to take clear doctrinal stances.
  • Notes many borrow Orthodox arguments for debate (“monarchical Trinitarianism”—from Sam Shamoon) but remain neutral on core issues like justification or sacraments.
  • “You can’t be neutral on the church and on justification and on the sacraments…” — Jay Dyer [36:50]

• Criticism of Islamic/Online Debate Tactics

  • Jay and co-host discuss the prevalence of manipulative tactics, bot attacks, and the superficiality of many modern online debates, especially regarding Islam.

7. Canonical Lists and Authority in Orthodoxy

Timestamps:

• [49:55]–[55:55]

• Defining the Biblical Canon in Orthodoxy

  • Jay outlines how the Orthodox canon is established via local and ecumenical councils: Carthage, Trullo, and the Seventh Ecumenical Council.
  • Emphasizes a degree of flexibility/hierarchy in how the ancient church handled scriptural and patristic writings.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “Rome, according to Basil, is first in ignorance to the truth.” — Jay Dyer [15:44]
• “Circumstantial evidence can be used depending upon the context... I'm saying even the heretics don't interpret Constantinople 1 the way Rome does.” — Jay Dyer [30:54]
• “The weakest point is that evangelicalism is not a church. It's just a strip mall... The weakest point is the canon conundrum.” — Jay Dyer [89:50]
• “Just because a person's using a tag argument doesn't mean for a... bad line of reasoning. That doesn't mean that tag's bad or that they don't have part of the... equation.” — Jay Dyer [83:09]
• On engaging with family:
  “If it's close family members, I would let them ask you questions, let them come to you. I would not, you know, engage in the debates.” — Jay Dyer [48:46]

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Important Call-In Segments & Timestamps

• [01:25–07:05+] Early deep-dive debate on papacy/conciliar authority
• [07:12–19:47] Discussion of Basil's letters and implications for papal infallibility
• [22:28–31:40] Cappadocian vs. Augustinian/Thomist Trinitarian theology and historical reception
• [37:14–45:52] On Palamas, Catholic and Orthodox veneration, and ecumenical contradictions
• [49:55–55:55] Discussion of the canon of Scripture in Orthodoxy (Carthage, Trullo, etc.)
• [71:09] On 'ethnicism’ and tribalism in Orthodoxy vs. other traditions

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Secondary Themes & Lighter Segments

• Frequent commentary on the silliness/shallowness of modern online apologetics (“Gen Z apologetics is debating puppets...”)
• Humorous riffs about conspiracy theories, aliens, super chats, and inside jokes
• Advice for those inquiring about Orthodoxy, critique of “internet Orthodoxy” vs. real-life practice [76:06]

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Conclusion

This episode is a substantive, sometimes comedic, sometimes pointed tour through key disputes in Christian history and online religious debate. Jay Dyer’s approach is consistently to demonstrate, through historical and theological argument, that Catholic, Evangelical, and Muslim paradigms—especially regarding authority and tradition—do not withstand scrutiny, and that Orthodox Christianity has the more consistent claim to apostolic tradition. The interactions are notable for their civility, depth, and occasionally sharp humor. The episode serves as both apologetic and commentary on the present state of inter-Christian (and interfaith) dialogue.

Transcript

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luxe for a limited time only at a sleep number stor sleep number.com@The Noble is second after Rome. If they did not have the authority to do that outside of being in communion with Rome and we know that, we know that they're doing it against Rome because in Chalcedon, Rome continues to reject the exact same canon that Constantinople is second after Rome. Do you follow that?

[Inquirer/Questioner]

I, I, I, yeah, I think I do. But wouldn't, couldn't we just say like in the Roman, in the Roman Catholic Church paradigm, could we not just say that that is like an encroachment or like that was a little too far of power and then only what was ratified by the Pope? Is that communicable?

[Jay Dyer]

No, the argument I'm making is that the church at Constantinople one did all of this and dogmatized the official doctrine of the monarchical trinity out of commune with Rome, didn't care what Rome said, even passed the canon that Rome would later take issue with and eventually accept. Constantinople one eventually gets accepted by Rome officially many, many years later.

[Inquirer/Questioner]

So in affirms canon 28 or 26

[Jay Dyer]

eventually after a couple hundred years after Leo and Chalcedon, yes, Rome eventually says, okay fine, Constantinople is second after Rome. But the point is that okay then, then you're admitting that Constantinople 1 was doing all of this and didn't have the papal mindset.

[Inquirer/Questioner]

Oh, okay, okay.

[Jay Dyer]

So that's, that's the argument.

[Inquirer/Questioner]

All right. Okay. I guess the only other like what do you make of was it Ephesus? What's the robber council in like the early maybe like the first 400 years? That is called as ecumenical and then is it Leo or, or I can't remember the Pope at the time, but like calls it robber and then it's no longer, it's like then rejected.

[Jay Dyer]

Well, it's a Monophysite council. So yeah, we don't accept it for many reasons. But for us, the reason, I mean you, there are legalities and formalities that occur in terms of, you know, what makes it canonically valid. But I'm saying for us, we're first and foremost going to say that, well, if it teaches bad theology like that's, that's, that's why it's false. But are you saying that the only way to know that it's a robber council is what the, what the Pope says? Because the easy way to refute that is latter in 649 because that also disproves the, the papal position. And six that that was the case at Constantinople three. Because later in 649. I'm not trying to shift away, I'm just showing how this disproves this point. Yeah. So later in 649 was intended to be an ecumenical council. Right. So this was the first time. And we know that Pope Martin intended to make this ecumenical and he actually wanted to do it without imperial interference. So the Pope says, all right, I'm going to call it a council. I want it to be ecumenical. And you have a statement against monothelitism in 649 by Pope St. Martin. Now here's the thing. If that was intended by the Pope to be ecumenical and it's full Roman see authority behind it, why does the Roman Catholic Church still to this day not considered ecumenical, when in a few years, a couple decades later, 686, you have Constantinople 3 3, which then looks back and says, we already see that Pope Martin condemned monothelitism. We will now investigate and issue an ecumenical council condemnation of monotheism.

[Inquirer/Questioner]

So it, so you're saying ladder in 649 was initially accepted as ecumenical?

[Jay Dyer]

No, no, no, no. I'm saying that Pope Martin wanted it to be. And I'm saying the very actions of the actual six ecumenical council were themselves a proof against papacy. Because they should have just said, well, Martin's already settled it. We don't need Constantinople 3. Instead they have Constantinople 3 and say we issue now the ecumenical council statement.

[Inquirer/Questioner]

Okay. And so later in. I'm just writing this down.

[Jay Dyer]

So yeah, you can look it up later in 649 under Martin.

[Inquirer/Questioner]

Okay. Underpin Martin. And he wanted it to be correct.

[Jay Dyer]

Correct. It was intended to be.

[Co-host/Moderator]

Yes.

[Jay Dyer]

And he wanted it to not have imperial interference. He wanted to say, look, we got to get these emperors out of this because the emperors call the councils. Right. And so it's intended to be the first non imperial, purely papal patriarchate ecumenical council. But the rest of the church never accepts that because they actually have Constantinople 3 in 686, which then looks back and says, okay, we will do our ecumenical council condemnation. In other words, they're not ultimately submitting to the fact that Martin in 649 condemn monotheism. They said, we want.

[Inquirer/Questioner]

I'm sorry, it was constant.

[Guest Caller]

3, 686.

[Inquirer/Questioner]

Okay. So they. They look back on lad 649 and they feel the need to issue.

[Jay Dyer]

Yes.

[Inquirer/Questioner]

Confirmation.

[Jay Dyer]

Yes.

[Inquirer/Questioner]

Okay.

[Guest Caller]

No.

[Jay Dyer]

No, they don't. Again, if papalism is true, there's no need for. Here's the argument.

[Co-host/Moderator]

If papalism is true, there's no need

[Jay Dyer]

for Constantinople 3 because later in 649 should have settled the issue. That's the argument.

[Inquirer/Questioner]

So the fact that they. So constant noble 366 had to revisit, which doesn't make sense, that your critique is. That doesn't make sense within the paper.

[Jay Dyer]

It proves they didn't have a papal Vatican one mindset. Yes. That's all right.

[Inquirer/Questioner]

Okay. All right. Well, I'm just.

[Jay Dyer]

No, this is great.

[Co-host/Moderator]

I appreciate. This is.

[Jay Dyer]

I love having a civil Roman Kelly chat. That's.

[Co-host/Moderator]

This.

[Inquirer/Questioner]

These are great. This is.

[Jay Dyer]

This is very civil. Appreciate your attitude. Very thankful for that. Now, I did want to mention, because these. These letters of Basil are very relevant to this dispute because if you read, for example, it begins with. I think it's letter 66 is the first of this discussion.

[Inquirer/Questioner]

Yeah, I'm sorry, it's letter. Letter what?

[Co-host/Moderator]

Letter six.

[Jay Dyer]

They're not too long either. You could read these in an hour. So letter 66 of Basil is the first of these letters about these problems that they're having with the Malaysian schism. Okay, real quick, real quick.

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[Inquirer/Questioner]

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Can I, like, review this?

[Inquirer/Questioner]

Will this dream get posted? Is it. I don't even know if it's a stream or if it's on. I'm just on Twitter.

[Jay Dyer]

Yeah, it'll be up. It'll be on the Internet for forever, dude.

[Inquirer/Questioner]

Okay, okay.

[Jay Dyer]

It's eternal. It's immortalized.

[Guest Caller]

Right.

[Inquirer/Questioner]

I'm gonna stop writing. I'll set all the stuff down then, because I can just go rewatch it and write it down.

[Jay Dyer]

Okay, okay. So in letter 66, which is the first one, Basil writes to Athanasius and he says, I've been appealing to the bishops of the West. I need your help. We have this, you know, schism going on, and then I should pull that one up. This is 69. So let me pull up 66. Then he says, this is interesting language.

[Co-host/Moderator]

He speaks of Antioch as the head of the body.

[Inquirer/Questioner]

Okay, wait, wait. That said, that's Basil's verbatim words or.

[Co-host/Moderator]

Yeah, I'm pulling it up, dude.

[Guest Caller]

Just relax.

[Inquirer/Questioner]

Sorry. Sorry, sir.

[Jay Dyer]

Yeah, here we go.

[Co-host/Moderator]

He says plainly, the discipline of the

[Jay Dyer]

Church of Antioch depends upon your reverence as being able to control some or to reduce others to silence and to restore strength to the Church by concord.

[Co-host/Moderator]

No one knows better than you do

[Jay Dyer]

that like all wise physicians, you ought to begin your treatment to the most vital parts. And what is more vital, throughout the. To the Church throughout the world.

[Co-host/Moderator]

In Antioch, if you let Antioch be restored to harmony, nothing will stand in

[Jay Dyer]

the way of her supplying as a

[Co-host/Moderator]

healthy head the soundness to all of the body.

[Jay Dyer]

Now, every Roman Catholic would immediately jump on that as a proof of papalism. If we just heal the problems in Antioch, the entire body of the Church. This is called honorifics. I'm just giving you an example of the type of language that's very selectively used by Roman Catholics when they speak about the papacy and they ignore the same honorifics of Antioch or Alexandria, all of which are Petrian seas, by the way.

[Co-host/Moderator]

So I'm just pointing out that Basil

[Jay Dyer]

is complaining to Athanasius and he's saying

[Co-host/Moderator]

we gotta fix

[Jay Dyer]

Antioch because if we fix Antioch, he, the head of the whole body, and everything else will heal. Right? He's using rhetorical, exaggerated language. Right. Because nobody thinks Antioch is literally the head of the Church.

[Inquirer/Questioner]

I'm just.

[Co-host/Moderator]

So this is the first of this,

[Jay Dyer]

of this letters of dispute here. Now the next one is 67 there. He. It's very short. I'm going to skip it just because he discusses malicious. Okay? So if you want, if you doubt me, we'll pull it up just to show that he's discussing malicious. It's very short. He says, blah, blah, blah. We ought to be united.

[Co-host/Moderator]

The Church, he says, is divided in Antioch.

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[Jay Dyer]

because of this schism, we ought to be united.

[Co-host/Moderator]

It ought to be under malicious.

[Jay Dyer]

Okay, so there. He's mentioning the Malician schism right there. I'm just pointing out that that's the context. I wasn't lying when I was saying that earlier because I know all the roman cast. Okay, 68 is a letter directly to malicious. I'm not. There's not. I don't think there's anything that relevant in it. It's also very short. He's just saying he wants to heal the schism. 69 is again to Athanasius. And here he mentions that he's appealed to Rome. He wants help. Rome is basically, Rome has failed. So let me find that quote that's in letter 69, paragraph 2. Okay. Begins with I should advise that. Let me find that part.

[Co-host/Moderator]

I should advise that without anyone knowing anything about it, they should travel hither, acting, attracting as little attention as possible

[Jay Dyer]

by sea, with the object of escaping the enemies of peace. A point that is. Let me make sure I got the right point. I might be at the wrong area. Okay, sorry. Earlier he had said he appealed to Rome. Now, by the way, he's writing and appealing to Athanasius. So before you say, was he appealing to Rome, you would appeal to anybody, including Athanasius, including all the bishops. So now he's appealing to Athanasius for help because he's saying Rome is worthless. I forgot to make that point. So let me go back to it seemed and you'll get the full context. It's difficult to find this from my written version. Here we go over here to the online it seemed to me desirable to

[Co-host/Moderator]

send a letter to the bishop of

[Jay Dyer]

Rome begging him to examine our condition.

[Co-host/Moderator]

And since there are difficulties in the

[Jay Dyer]

way of representatives being sent from the west to a general synodical decree to

[Co-host/Moderator]

advise them to exercise his own personal authority in the matter of choosing persons

[Jay Dyer]

to sustain the labors of a journey Notice. He's actually saying, can we get a synodal decree? He's not just saying give Us your divine fiat. He's saying, I want Rome to also be involved in a synodal decree. There are difficulties. So he says, we need firmness and

[Co-host/Moderator]

gentleness to correct the unruly here, to be able to seek to speak with proper reserve and appropriateness throughout, thoroughly well

[Jay Dyer]

acquainted with all that has been affected after Armenium and unto the violent measures adopted there. And then he says, we have to be careful because there's enemies. Then he says, a point also that is insisted upon in these parts is that they should drive away the heresy

[Co-host/Moderator]

of Marcellus, a grievous and injurious person opposed to sound faith.

[Jay Dyer]

For up to this time.

[Co-host/Moderator]

All the letters that they write, they

[Jay Dyer]

are constantly and thoroughly anathematizing the ill

[Co-host/Moderator]

famed areas and in repudiation repudiate him from the churches. But they do not attach any blame to Marcellus. He's talking about Rome failing here, who propounds a heresy, the opposite of Arius, and impiously attacks the very existence of

[Jay Dyer]

the Godhead and the one of the

[Co-host/Moderator]

person, the God of the word and so forth. He says, hence when he had come forth, he had no existence. The books that I have in my possession, which contain his unrighteous writings, are proof. Nevertheless, they nowhere openly condemn him Rome and are to this extent culpable, being from the first in ignorance of the truth. Rome, according to Basil, is first in ignorance to the truth. They received this heretic in the communion and the present state of affairs makes it necessarily necessary that attention be called off. So he's saying that I appealed to

[Jay Dyer]

Rome and Rome has completely failed.

[Inquirer/Questioner]

So is he not. Would that language. Not until that room was heretical at that time.

[Co-host/Moderator]

Yeah, but that's what I'm saying.

[Jay Dyer]

Basil wouldn't have problems saying that Rome can fail because he doesn't believe in

[Co-host/Moderator]

Vatican one papal supremacy.

[Jay Dyer]

In fact, he'll go on to say that they're absolutely ignorant of the faith, which.

[Co-host/Moderator]

How could you say that if they're the.

[Jay Dyer]

They are the one holy Catholic Apostolic Church.

[Co-host/Moderator]

That's the.

[Jay Dyer]

You said that's the oral tradition that they probably have.

[Inquirer/Questioner]

Well, yeah. Well, the reason I bring it up is I didn't know that either side, like either Orthodox or any Catholic apologist, I didn't know. This is what Pope. Pope who?

[Co-host/Moderator]

I think the next letter is Pope.

[Jay Dyer]

So he's writing, I think, to Pope Damasus. So let's look at the next letter, which is, I think, to the Pope, and we'll see that it's not papal. So let's look at letter 70.

[Inquirer/Questioner]

What I'm saying is, is I had never heard that Pope Damasus was a heretic.

[Jay Dyer]

I'm not saying it's a heretic. Basil is saying that he's worthless and ignorant of the truth.

[Inquirer/Questioner]

Yeah, I guess I'm critiquing our. My point is that.

[Guest Caller]

That.

[Inquirer/Questioner]

That seems to be in the same way that.

[Co-host/Moderator]

But it. Look, dude, it proves that he doesn't

[Jay Dyer]

believe in the Vatican one mindset.

[Co-host/Moderator]

That's all I have to prove.

[Inquirer/Questioner]

But couldn't that. But in the same way that you would say that there's times where people give honorific language. Could that not be like. But, like, over exaggeration in the fact that he's just pissed with Rome and he's like, they're freaking worthless. The same way, like, you might see a Catholic today say, how could.

[Jay Dyer]

But no Roman Catholic can say that in after. I mean, if they have, then it just simply proves it doesn't have the Vatican one mindset. Because Roman Catholics can't say that Rome doesn't know the truth or that they're ignorant of the Gospel.

[Inquirer/Questioner]

That's.

[Jay Dyer]

I mean, you could say that, but that means that Rome has erred on basic, you know, magisterial, ordinary teaching, which is not possible. And according to Vatican 1. So that's, again, just proving that it's not the Vatican one mindset.

[Inquirer/Questioner]

But you think that Basil was wrong here? Because you don't think. Do you think that I don't.

[Co-host/Moderator]

It doesn't matter.

[Jay Dyer]

Like, again, it's not the Vatican.

[Co-host/Moderator]

All I have to do is prove

[Jay Dyer]

that it's not the Vatican one mindset. So it really literally doesn't matter whether Basil is wrong or not, because it simply demonstrates that he doesn't have the Vatican one mindset, nor does Constantinople one.

[Inquirer/Questioner]

Okay? Because as long as he. You're saying. As long as he holds the belief, regardless of whether or not it's correct,

[Jay Dyer]

all I'm showing is that it's not Vatican one. And. And this is counter evidence to your claim that there's an oral belief amongst these people that Rome is the one holy Catholic Apostolic Church. Because you understand, these are the guys that got one Holy Catholic Apostolic in the Creed and the Holy Spirit part. It's Basil. Basil is a huge part of that. And then Nissa and naziensis. So Constantinople 1 has the added part of the Creed to the original Nicene Creed. I believe in one holy Catholic Apostolic Church. I confess. One badge of the Russian of sins. Right. That's added by these guys.

[Inquirer/Questioner]

Okay.

[Jay Dyer]

And so that tells me that when I read their writings, they certainly don't believe one holy Catholic apostolic church is essentially and primarily Rome. Because they wouldn't be writing and speaking this way about a council held out of communion with Rome.

[Inquirer/Questioner]

Okay, I see the. I see the critique.

[Jay Dyer]

Oh, by the way, let me, let me, let me make sure that. Okay. Because there's in this letter to Damasus, he goes on to say, he says, you've. You failed. I'm really disappointed in you. I'm looking for the exact quote of what he says.

[Co-host/Moderator]

I mean,

[Jay Dyer]

yeah, I don't think there's nothing really else about. Like he's just basically saying that the church over here is all messed up and you didn't. I was disappointed in your lack of aid

[Inquirer/Questioner]

to Damascus.

[Jay Dyer]

To Pope Damasus.

[Co-host/Moderator]

Yeah.

[Guest Caller]

Oh, sorry.

[Inquirer/Questioner]

Damn. Says not Damascus. Damascus. Okay. In. In like to be. And being as charitable as you can to the Roman Catholic position. I'm just. You. You don't think that could be like, Like a bishop? I'm thinking of a bishop. I get. I guess the weight is though, is he's the person who's articulating one holy Catholic apostolic. He's not just a bishop writing frustration. He's the one articulating.

[Jay Dyer]

Yeah. All through.

[Co-host/Moderator]

All three of the cop.

[Jay Dyer]

All three of the Cappadocians are really essentially the. The main theological figures of Constant one. And the main, main figure is Gregory of Nyssa. So there's even an imperial decree that you can't disagree with Nissa's interpretation and. And view of. What.

[Co-host/Moderator]

What's up everybody?

[Inquirer/Questioner]

It's Bretzky.

[Co-host/Moderator]

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[Jay Dyer]

The nice, you know, cosmopolitan creed says.

[Inquirer/Questioner]

Where was that?

[Guest Caller]

That.

[Inquirer/Questioner]

That's a decree at.

[Jay Dyer]

No, it's an imperial decree. It's probably in the price translations, but it's something that Dr. Bo Branson refers to, so you'd have to ask him what the exact source is on it. I don't have it off. I don' have that off top of my head. That's an argument he makes.

[Inquirer/Questioner]

Okay.

[Jay Dyer]

It might be in his dissertation. I'm not sure.

[Inquirer/Questioner]

But would you.

[Guest Caller]

But in a.

[Inquirer/Questioner]

The weight of an empirical decree like that that would show. Couldn't an empire emperor be wrong though? I mean, I know that would show that there was that belief like regardless of whether.

[Jay Dyer]

Yeah, I'm not saying that. I mean, I'm just saying that that proves that Nissa and the Capadians are the theological Milieu for understanding Constantinople 1. But I don't really think anybody dis. I don't even think Roman Catholics would disagree with that. That are familiar with it.

[Inquirer/Questioner]

Okay, and does Nissa have like Basil level wording against the remedy?

[Jay Dyer]

No, no, I'm pointing out Nyssa is specifically stated about like the triad because constant number one is the first dogmatized full trinitarian doctrine and it's actually the last like up until. For the Orthodox there's not another trinitarian statement until Byzantium, until the middle the. The Palamite synods.

[Inquirer/Questioner]

But add to it there.

[Jay Dyer]

What, what I'm. Well, they don't add to the Creed, but they. That's where you get like essence energy dogmatize the Palmite synods. What I'm saying is that for the first thousand years of the Church, the Trinity is pretty much. I mean it's. All the rest of the debates are Christology. Trinity is done@ Constantinople1. That becomes the official ecumenical dogmatic statement on what the Trinity is and which

[Inquirer/Questioner]

is lacking in the sun.

[Jay Dyer]

Yeah, but it's also none of the later Roman Catholic speculations. In other words, the, The Latin. The west, for example, goes in the direction of the Augustinian ideas of the triad and that obviously dominates in the early Middle Ages. And then it gets sort of trumped by the. The Thomistic idea is the Trinity. So what I'm saying is that that's already foreign to the Cappadocian model of the Trinity which is already laid down at the second Ecumenical Council. And I forget the exact date. I'm going to say it's a few hundred years after. Let's see, when does Rome. I'm going from memory here, so I might. I could be wrong on the exact date here.

[Inquirer/Questioner]

All good.

Not trying to get you, just trying to learn.

[Jay Dyer]

No, I appreciate your attitude. Of course, I don't even know. I don't. I don't know if I can trust even the AI that pull this stuff up.

[Inquirer/Questioner]

Jay Dyer using AI during debate with Roman.

[Jay Dyer]

Okay, yeah, this is what I thought was the case. Assuming that this AI is correct and it's citing the papal encyclical. So I think this is probably true.

[Guest Caller]

So.

[Jay Dyer]

So hold on. So Constantinople 1 is gradually accepted in certain ways and areas by Rome over time. So the, the AI, and I'm not saying it's true because it's AI, I'm just giving an example. So one of the reasons that aside from the Meian schism and Meus being out of communion with Rome, is the question of Canon 3, which says that Rome would. The Chalcedon, excuse me, the EP would be second after Rome. So that was another reason. Yes. Okay, so it's that Rome doesn't like that on top of the rejection of being out of commune with the malicious at the time. And then in 451, the same canon is added to Chalcedon. That becomes the famous Canon 28 of Chalcedon, which is Canon 3 of Constantinople 1. So it's still rejected, but then Gregory the Great officially accepts the Constantinople one in total in his day. So a lot of it has to do with specifically the canon about Constantinople. But I'm, I'm trying to remember exactly, because if Ro. It cuts both ways in my view, because if Rome accepts the Constantinople model of the Trinity, then you can't have the Augustinian model of the Trinity because that's not what's accepted at Constantinople 1. So if you argue that Rome disagree with the canon about Constantinople but accepted the theology of Constantinople one, then that's even more damaging in my view than if you said over time, well, maybe down the road they eventually accept it, but they didn't initially. So I know that. I remember Craig wrote something on this. Let me see what he wrote.

[Inquirer/Questioner]

I don't remember.

[Jay Dyer]

Gracian claimed that the Apostolic Sea of

[Guest Caller]

Rome

[Jay Dyer]

has not accepted canon three of, of Constantinople. I'm interested in theology, though.

[Guest Caller]

That's what it.

[Jay Dyer]

Because I know about this canon debate, but I'm more interested in the theology because I remember reading that it was much later. Let me see. But I don't remember off top of my head when that is. It seems like I remember reading a few centuries after Calcedon. But that would be Gregory the Great, but that might have just been about the can. So Rome. Interesting. Well, if you think about the Creed, yeah, they would have.

[Co-host/Moderator]

They would have accepted the Creed.

[Jay Dyer]

Oh, interesting. So this is according to Encyclopedia Britannica, which could be wrong, but it's claiming that the Creed was accepted 70 years later at Chalcedon. So that would mean that Rome was perhaps reticent to accept, to go with concept number one, until 70 years later.

[Inquirer/Questioner]

Reticent, meaning like, like not wanting to.

[Jay Dyer]

Yeah, they were hesitant because it took them 70 years to accept the addition to the Creed of Nicaea, and then it took until 600 A.D. to accept the. The disputed canon about Constantinople. So it's. So in other words, it's gradual. That's why this is confusing is that it's actual gradual acceptance of parts of Constantinople 1. That's why.

[Inquirer/Questioner]

Okay, is it is Constantinople 1 is the last one that the Coptics hold to, right? They don't accept.

[Jay Dyer]

No, they. They accept Ephesus because Ephesus is dominated by Saint Cyril.

[Inquirer/Questioner]

Okay, but. Okay, and then they leave at calculate. They can't agree with us.

[Jay Dyer]

Yeah, they don't accept. Calculate. Right. So they have the first three.

[Inquirer/Questioner]

So what? I guess that's my question. Is the trinitarian language there? Ex. I know it's about monophysite or modifications.

[Co-host/Moderator]

Well, hold on, hold on.

[Jay Dyer]

You understand that the Orientals actually are an argument in our favor because they don't have filioque. They agree with us on these points. So that shows you that even the schismatics, from our view of that time, have our same trinitarian theology, and they accept Constantinople one the way we do, and they interpret it the way we do.

[Inquirer/Questioner]

I'm. I'm just not. My, my trinitarian theology is just not good enough to like, really, I would just be.

[Jay Dyer]

Well, but even aside from that, I'm just saying that. Do you see that the schismatics and the heretics from our vantage point are an argument in our favor because even the heretics, even the Orientals affirm our understanding of Constantinople 1. Does that make sense, what I'm saying?

[Inquirer/Questioner]

Yes.

[Jay Dyer]

I'm not saying it's true because they affirm it. I'm saying that they're evidence that even the heretics don't interpret Constantinople 1 to be filioque or possible.

[Inquirer/Questioner]

Okay, yeah, I, Yeah, I see. Like, it's, it's. I don't know if this might be the wrong use of the word circumstantial, but I could see. I was like, circumstantial evidence, but.

[Jay Dyer]

Well, circumstantial evidence can be used depending upon the context. Because I'm not saying.

[Inquirer/Questioner]

I'm not debating. I'm not.

[Jay Dyer]

I'm not saying it's true because the heretics. We don't care. I'm not saying it's true because they affirm it. I'm saying it's a piece of evidence that I'm saying even the heretics don't interpret Constantinople one the way Rome does. They interpret it the way we do, which shows that these ancient Groups even in heresy still have the same trinitarian theology that we do. They just have a different, they have a different Christology.

[Inquirer/Questioner]

Yeah, Christology with, yeah, okay, okay.

[Jay Dyer]

Hey, it's a great chat man. I mean I really appreciate you being a very civil Catholic dude. That's, that's great. Those are always a lot better than the sort of cheap gotchas and all that, you know.

[Inquirer/Questioner]

I, I, I was like full blown atheist. Like not, not like a proud of it, but like I didn't even know if religion was real like two years ago and then yeah, just been, I'm just super fortunate, like applesauce, Christianity and it just like, it all just like makes a lot of sense in ways that like I, yeah, I'm just trying to learn always. I, I, I came into the Christian faith by just pursuing truth. I didn't know, I literally had no idea if it'd be like Hinduism, Islam, sure, like whatever.

[Jay Dyer]

That way. Feel free to call back in anytime. You had a great attitude. It was a great conversation. I am going to have to move on because we're going to be doing the stream with Tristan here in a little bit and that will be on UFOs and the occult and alien abductions. We'll be doing that in I think an hour. Is that right? I'll give you guys this link again. So great conversations tonight. Very civil. This is, this is the best way to do it.

[Co-host/Moderator]

Don't always happen that way, but that's okay.

[Jay Dyer]

Props to that dude again. I know a lot of you guys been waiting but hey, that was a great refresher. I, you know, I haven't thought about all that Basil stuff. I'm happy that I remembered most of it. But we did do a long time ago.

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[Jay Dyer]

A podcast talk on Basil's letters which I think are very relevant for

[Co-host/Moderator]

this.

[Jay Dyer]

I think we covered quite a bit. Let me find it. Somebody clipped this four months ago from this old podcast. Now it doesn't even come up. Oh wait, here it is.

[Guest Caller]

Yeah,

[Jay Dyer]

so we did a three hour talk on this almost seven years ago. So thank God I remembered most of that from seven or eight years ago. I haven't looked at it since then. There's that link if you guys want to watch that. Great, great chat.

[Co-host/Moderator]

Timid Timidyer. Timmy Dyer, what's up?

[Guest Caller]

Hello.

[Co-host/Moderator]

Hey.

[Inquirer/Questioner]

Hey.

[Guest Caller]

No, I know this is off topic. I know it's about logic. I mean I was just on Tick Tock went on live and he's literally online with this girl who's like a unknown pro Zionist, like has like five minute videos going in on why Israel is all going to be saved and why we should support Israel financially and all this stuff. And he's on there debating whether Jesus is God or not. But you know, it's just, I, I find it hilarious that you know, he excludes people out of the church like Jehovah Witnesses, all these people for being Christians and things of that source. But the first heresy that's in the Bible outlined very clearly is Judaizing. And you go and support all of those people, right, with no, with no concern at all. But you have this hypocritical position where you think you can determine whether who, who's not a Christian, who's a Christian or not based solely on whether you believe on a trinity. It's just a arbitrary standard that he has when condemned heresies he supports no problem, you know, so it's just interesting as hell to me. Like he just, he's just, I don't know how people don't see the thrift at this point with him, you know.

[Co-host/Moderator]

Yeah, I appreciate that.

[Jay Dyer]

I mean and we've seen that pattern too where he sort of tries to play a middle ground for a long time and you know, when somebody asked him about is the church the new Israel, the fulfillment of Israel and he sort of talks around, it won't be very, very clear about it and he's basically sort of Zionist ish. But look, that's because it's all kind of forcing him into admitting that he's basically got these evangelical Protestant Zionist positions which is what we suspected all the whole time. And that's why we were again, nobody just was mean to God logic for no reason. Everybody tried to be very friendly and, and open handed and helpful and look

[Co-host/Moderator]

at all of the arguments against the Muslims he got from our monarchical trinitarian

[Jay Dyer]

view and from Sam Shamon, it's all

[Co-host/Moderator]

of Sam Shamoon's articles.

[Jay Dyer]

Sam Shamoon basically tutoring him on how

[Co-host/Moderator]

to debate the Muslims and the monarchical Trinitarian view.

[Jay Dyer]

So how would we be mean to him if like he basically got all that from us.

[Co-host/Moderator]

But then we pointed out you can't

[Jay Dyer]

be neutral on the church and on justification and on the, the sacraments, and you can't be neutral on all this stuff. Can't even be neutral on like the Zionist position, really. So now it's forcing him into kind of admitting, okay, fine, I'm a, you know, I, I believe sola fide. I believe, you know, justification by faith alone. And if you don't believe that, you teach a false gospel. Go ahead, Billy.

[Inquirer/Questioner]

Hey, Jay. So I have a question, obviously. So I'm converting to orthodoxy and I've been studying the essence, energy, distinction and stuff like that. And I noticed that obviously Thomas aquinus was a 13th century guy and with Palomas being a 14th century, I guess, person to argue, you know, obviously against bar and stuff like that. At the time of Palomas arguing Barlum with Thomas Aquinas being prior to that, did the Roman Catholic Church, like, did the Pope ever come out and say something like disagreeing with Palomas because the west had already accepted like Thomism or was it kind of just left at the Barlum and Palomas like, debate? If that makes sense.

[Co-host/Moderator]

That's a good question. I'm not aware of a papal statement

[Jay Dyer]

or letter addressing anything specific. But the way Roman. My argument would be the right. The way Roman Catholicism works, it doesn't really have to, because if it issues a magisterial condemnation of a position. And if you read Denzinger or if you get. I think I left my Denzinger in Florida, but I did get this, you know, updated Vatican II version of Denzinger, the nooner to pew version. If you get that book, you'll notice that a lot of times in Roman Catholic dogma, there's condemn positions or condemn propositions. So they don't really have to specifically name everybody, although at times they do name certain people that are heretics. Because, for example, if, if Lions in 1274 and the Council of Florence and the 14 whatever, if they both affirm that you have to have the double eternal hypostatic procession view, then that right there condemns Palomas because Palomas's book, Apodictic Treatise calls the Filioque satanic.

[Inquirer/Questioner]

So, yeah, doesn't he say, that's kind of ironic you say that too? Because I was listening to someone talk about it and I went and kind of dug a little bit for myself. And doesn't Palomas literally say himself that the Latins obeyed Satan? Like, that's.

[Jay Dyer]

Yeah, no, that's explicit.

[Inquirer/Questioner]

What he.

[Jay Dyer]

It's like at the very beginning.

[Inquirer/Questioner]

Yeah. That's like word for word verbatim, I'm pretty sure.

[Jay Dyer]

Yeah. So that would put Palomas under the condemnation Right. Of both, both 1274 and Florence and 14, whatever it is. So.

[Inquirer/Questioner]

And I'm pretty sure he hasn't. There's an icon of Palmas right next to Aquinas in the Vatican. I forgot. Is it?

[Jay Dyer]

No, this is. So John Paul II revived this because you had this movement prior to and at Vatican II to give both lungs of the church breath. One of those people we referenced earlier was Hans Ors Von Balthazar who is. If you read a lot of like Saint Maximus scholarship, you'll end up reading Von Balthazar because he's got a bunch of academic and you know, written texts on Saint Maximus and he had this idea that hey, I want to you know, really revive Eastern theology. And so, you know, he was very involved in pushing that at Vatican ii. There's some other people as well that are Roman Catholics that push that. But that's all pretty new.

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[Jay Dyer]

Although I think Erhan had a great argument that actually Russian Catholics were using the same festalman and menologion which is like the have the same saints. So in other words, really Rome has kind of been inconsistent on this the whole time, especially with Uniates and probably John Paul, Probably John Paul II's argumentation and thought on this aside from ecumenism was, well, if we have Dvornik and Von Balthazar and Kongar all kind of admitting a lot of Eastern arguments after all these centuries, we might as well because the Uniates already and the Melkites reverence Palomas and Mark of Ephesus, we might as well just go ahead and say that they're saints, which again I think this is totally contradictory. Like how could you be a saint after being a heretic for centuries? This is making sense.

[Inquirer/Questioner]

Yeah, I mean I don't understand how they would have someone as, as a saint now. I, I, I'm aware that, I mean it's not necessarily based on solely doctrine, but I mean, to have someone that's so against. I mean, again, he literally said the Latin's obeyed Satan. And yet you go to the Vatican and there's an icon there. Am I, am I wrong on that or is that true?

[Guest Caller]

Isn't that true?

[Jay Dyer]

No, it's true. It's.

[Co-host/Moderator]

I can't remember if it's.

[Jay Dyer]

I think it might have been in John Paul's private chapel. I'm going from memory.

[Inquirer/Questioner]

Yeah.

Like I, I don't understand how that. To me, that's kind of like. I don't know if I'd say kill shot, but if I was someone who's inquiring, like the dude who was just on a couple, a couple minutes ago, he was talking about how he was an atheist and like, I mean, from someone who would be inquiring into Catholicism and getting into the kind of philosophical area of it and stuff like that. As soon as I see the essence, energy, distinction and then I go to, oh well, let's read stuff on the Vatican and what's there. And then I see this, I'd be like, I mean this is kind of like you said, contradicting, like absolutely.

Yeah.

Even. It's not even.

[Jay Dyer]

Yeah, appreciate that. I need to move on because we're gonna have to go do the show with Tristan. I haven't had any, any dinner yet, but I want to, I want to be a little precise because I know Roman Catholics might jump on this, to be more precise specifically because I started thinking, well, if they use the same menologion as we do, that wouldn't be possible because we're not going to be reverencing Roman Catholic saints. And to be more precise, this is the solution. So it turns out Russian Catholics have a strong bond with orthodox post schism saints. Now here's the crazy part. You would think that this was a Vatican II idea.

[Co-host/Moderator]

Apparently Pius X, the so called trad Pope, the super trad Pope, permitted Russian Catholics to venerate post schism Orthodox saints. That's crazy, because remember, According to Vatican

[Jay Dyer]

1, the very last sections of Vatican

[Co-host/Moderator]

1 say that if you don't accept

[Jay Dyer]

Vatican 1, you are excommunicated and damned. And all of these, you know, all

[Co-host/Moderator]

of the Orthodox, even prior to Vatican

[Jay Dyer]

one, like nobody accepts in the Russian church the papal perspective. So all of these people would be damned and yet they're allowed to be venerated by the trad Pope.

[Co-host/Moderator]

That's even crazier than I thought.

[Jay Dyer]

So, so the irony is this would actually vindicate John Paul ii.

[Co-host/Moderator]

Because you can't say that it's.

[Jay Dyer]

Oh, it's just John Paul II's ecumenism.

[Co-host/Moderator]

John Paul II is going to say,

[Jay Dyer]

no, I'm just following Pius X because

[Co-host/Moderator]

Pius X allowed the whole Russian Church, the Russian Catholics, to venerate Orthodox schismatics. That's crazy.

[Jay Dyer]

That's an even stronger argument if. I mean, I'm assuming this is true, right? I'm not defaulting to AI. I'm just assuming that the search is accurate.

[Co-host/Moderator]

Do.

[Jay Dyer]

Do you guys understand that?

[Co-host/Moderator]

So basically, Palomas and Saint Seraphim of

[Jay Dyer]

Sarah, for example, who are not Roman Catholics at all, they would be rejecting multiple Roman Catholic dogmas, Filioque, papacy, purgatory, on and on and on. And this is saying that the tried

[Co-host/Moderator]

pope from the last.

[Jay Dyer]

From, you know, 1900 or whatever, Pius

[Co-host/Moderator]

the 10th, is who permitted Russian Catholics

[Jay Dyer]

to venerate Palomas and Saint Seraphim Sarov and all these other, quote, schismatic Russian saints.

[Co-host/Moderator]

Now notice how different that is from

[Jay Dyer]

Cantate Domino, the Council of Florence, which

[Co-host/Moderator]

says if you do not die in

[Jay Dyer]

communion with Rome, even if you die as a martyr outside of communion with Rome, you're damned. So, I mean, this is an even stronger line of argument than I. And I. Now I remember that. That's right, because David's. I think David's video mentions Pius the tenth, if I recall. Jquan, what's.

[Guest Caller]

Yo, what's up, Jay?

[Jay Dyer]

Hey, what's up?

[Guest Caller]

So, you know, you open to the Muslims debating?

[Jay Dyer]

I mean, I'm gotta kind of wrap it up because we got a whole bunch of. I got more streams to do tonight, but we could do something quick.

[Co-host/Moderator]

What topic did you want to cover?

[Guest Caller]

Oh, well, I was just wondering if you'd accept the Nation of Islam.

[Jay Dyer]

That's not Islam.

[Co-host/Moderator]

That's a cult.

[Jay Dyer]

Dude, what are you talking about, bro?

[Guest Caller]

You.

You know, you.

[Jay Dyer]

You wouldn't debate on Yaku, bro.

[Inquirer/Questioner]

You lose.

[Jay Dyer]

Oh, you.

[Co-host/Moderator]

Why would I. Why would I debate Yakub when I

[Jay Dyer]

believe in him,

[Inquirer/Questioner]

man?

[Guest Caller]

You.

[Sleep Number Advertiser]

You.

[Guest Caller]

You.

You don't know the true Yakubian teachings from.

[Jay Dyer]

I am the true Yakubian teachings. I am him. I am he in person. What are you trying to talk about? Just rubbing up on that phone, kid. Just spurging. I was rubbing on the phone.

[Co-host/Moderator]

Dude, stop rubbing on the phone.

[Jay Dyer]

I am Yakub. How dare you? What's up, Tristana? Go ahead.

[Guest Caller]

I was say, is that. Is that guy gone?

[Jay Dyer]

He dared to say, I'm not. I'm not Yakub. So, yeah, you Better quit.

[Inquirer/Questioner]

I knew it.

[Guest Caller]

No, you saw that I was coming on because he knows that I represent the Nation of Islam. Oh, we're about to wreck house. Yeah, no, he's out. He's going. You can't, you can't come up against a true phys Lomic scholar.

[Jay Dyer]

Okay? Yeah, man, whatever. You said, no shot. What's up? We're gonna have fun tonight, guys. Remember, we'll be immediately moving over here to Tristana's stream.

[Co-host/Moderator]

What's up, dude?

[Guest Caller]

Aj, how's it going, man?

[Inquirer/Questioner]

Good.

[Guest Caller]

First time calling in. I've been listening to you for a while.

[Jay Dyer]

I just really wanted to get your

[Guest Caller]

perspective real quick on how you approach convers with, you know, family, loved ones, you know, growing up in the south, of course, like the dispensationalism is huge here. So how do you do that? In a loving manner, I'd say.

[Co-host/Moderator]

I mean, if it's close family members,

[Jay Dyer]

I would not really push the theology and try to do the debates.

[Co-host/Moderator]

I.

[Jay Dyer]

If it's close family members, I would let them ask you questions, let them come to you. I would not, you know, engage in the debates.

[Co-host/Moderator]

If it's a peer, you know, like

[Jay Dyer]

if it's somebody who's your cousin that you, you know, joke around with, you could be a little more aggressive and a little more, you know, but if it's a superior, no, you're not going to be debating. You're going to be answering their questions. If it's a, you know, equal or an inferior, you can be aggressive and debate, you know, depending upon that person's character and their level. I would also feel out people's level of interest. If they're not interested in it, I wouldn't push it.

[Co-host/Moderator]

Just let.

[Jay Dyer]

People will be interested, let them ask you questions. That's the best route, especially for family members. And you're never going to argue your parents into a position. Don't ever do that. Take a look around.

[Co-host/Moderator]

What's up? We got to read some of these super chats too because we got to

[Jay Dyer]

go over here with Tristana here in a minute. What's up? Go ahead. On mute. Make it quick.

[Inquirer/Questioner]

Yo, man. Hey,

[Guest Caller]

Just a quick question about the canon of the Bible. I had my friend at the church today, I'm Eastern Orthodox.

Okay.

Apparently he said that the. These Orthodox church has not established. And I know you have spoken earlier about establishing the canon about true law or Carthage. I, I don't know much about it, but can you just go through it quick?

[Co-host/Moderator]

Okay, so the canons of Carthage, there's

[Jay Dyer]

Several early councils of Carthage. It's. I'm going from memory, it's like 4, 14, 415. One of those Carthage cannons has the deuterocanonical list that's repeated by Trello. Trello is in, by the way, Trollo was seen at the time as an ecumenical council in the east, but it's confirmed officially in terms of the cannons of Trello at the seventh council. So seventh council affirms Trello, which Trello affirms the Carthage canon that lists the deuterocanon. So that's the closest thing to the official orthodox definition of a canon.

[Guest Caller]

Right.

[Jay Dyer]

For us Ecumenical council's highest authority, the official, technically official, you know, ecumenical council that affirms a biblical canon is thus seventh affirming Trello affirming Carthage.

[Guest Caller]

Right.

So why would he even say that the Eastern Orthodox Church have not established.

[Jay Dyer]

Because he would. It could either be ignorant of that fact, many people are ignorant of that. Or they are. Some, sometimes people say that when they're, when they're replying to like a Protestant mindset of sola scriptura. Like you know, people's, you know, we don't have this sort of rigid idea of sola scriptura view of the canon that some Protestants have. So we have a little bit of a looser idea. For example, you know, in the 4th century you have in the east, the apostolic canons affirm a can, a canonical list that includes the Deuteron canon, but it also lists Clement. Right. And we're not going to condemn everybody in the fourth century because it has Clement in there. Well, in the west, in the 4th century under Pope Damasus, there's the same canon that, that's, that's Carthage that has a dual canon, but it does have Clement. Okay, so we're not going to like damn everybody because they thought Clement was part of it. And even you can go all the way up to John Damascus, he still thought Clement was part of this, this list. And even the church fathers at times when they have like, they'll have a list of the New Testament and then they'll have like Clement over here or Didache over here sometimes as not as important as gospels on Paul, but still re read in the churches. And that mirrors the same idea of like the way they would have the Torah and the prophets and the right and then the writings that would be like proverbs and Sirach and deuterocanonical text. So even within the Jewish tradition there's sort of a tier of this and there's flexibility about what you might call the writings both in the Old Testament and in various patristic era people's writers lists of the New Testament. Does that make.

[Co-host/Moderator]

That's why there's flexibility.

[Guest Caller]

Yeah, sure.

[Jay Dyer]

So. So somebody might meet by that flexibility. Existing a person might mean. Ah, you see, there is not one single unified canon throughout these centuries. So they might mean that.

[Guest Caller]

Right.

So in super super super short, it was a Trulo or Cartage. Tulo was recognized as an ecumenical council.

[Jay Dyer]

Well, no, Trullo was. Is technically not ecumenical because the west did not or initially they accepted, then they didn't. So you could debate whether Trullo's ecumenical. Ultimately it doesn't matter because everyone agrees the seventh council is ecumenical and it affirms the canon that Trullo confirms from Carthage.

[Co-host/Moderator]

Carthage is local.

[Jay Dyer]

Right. But Carthage, I'm going from memory, has the same list as Damasus and Augustine's canon.

[Guest Caller]

Right.

So the seventh ecumenical council affirms the

[Jay Dyer]

Cat, the established canon in Trudeau, which is from Carthage. Yes. Which has the Durocan. Which has the Durocannon.

[Guest Caller]

Yes.

[Jay Dyer]

Okay, got it.

[Guest Caller]

Thank you.

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[Jay Dyer]

Let's. Let's see if the AI can get this one right. Let's try it out. Okay. It's. By the way, I was Wrong.

[Co-host/Moderator]

It's not 415.

[Jay Dyer]

It's 419. The biblical canon list of the African code. And Carthage is the Council of Carthage.

[Co-host/Moderator]

419.

[Jay Dyer]

By the way, there's several of these,

[Co-host/Moderator]

but this is Carthage. 419 is in canon two of Trello.

[Jay Dyer]

And then Trello is affirmed universally at Nicaea too for the orthodox, because of

[Co-host/Moderator]

course a Roman Catholic, they don't care what Trello says.

[Jay Dyer]

They don't even care what the canons of Nicaea say. They're just going to say we care what Damis said because we're papists.

[Inquirer/Questioner]

Yeah.

[Guest Caller]

Nice. Okay, I'm going to study this and bring it back to him.

[Inquirer/Questioner]

Yeah.

[Co-host/Moderator]

Thank you.

[Guest Caller]

Yeah.

[Jay Dyer]

By the way, I'm not relying on AI I'm just simply looking at it to see if it jibes with what I remember reading. So no I'm not relying on AI. I'm just using this basic search function. And by the way, I, I, I'm, I'm happy to be corrected if the AI is wrong.

[Co-host/Moderator]

Tristan, did you want to say something or no?

[Guest Caller]

Sorry, I accidentally had my mic on muted. My bad. I hope I wasn't making sound. You know, just think about the AI thing. I had a funny thing a few minutes ago. I was talking to a friend of mine. He sent me this quote, and it kind of sounded familiar. And I told him what I thought the quote was. I was like, oh, that sounds like a Don Dello quote. Is that from Libra? It sounded familiar. He was like, no, that's from Gravity's Rainbow. I was like, oh, shoot. Okay, that's funny. I should have remembered that quote. I just read that book. So I, I, I, I tapped on the, On Android, you know, you've got the little AI option if you hold at the bottom and you can search a text. So I just searched the text and the first thing that popped up was it hallucinated that it was from Don DeLillo in Libra. So I was, I hallucinated that this quote was from a book and then AI subsequently hallucinated. So it shows you how cooked I am. I'm hallucinating that these quotes are from the books that AI is also hallucinating that they're from. Even though I've actually read the book and kind of somewhat remember the quote. It was a strange occurrence. Basically, I'm, I'm, I've ascended. This is into the singularity.

[Jay Dyer]

Yeah, we already knew that, though. So you're just like, really just repeating stuff and you're like a program that just on repeat. Dude, Dry.

[Guest Caller]

What's gonna do? You're really gonna get like this? We're gonna get all sassy before a debate and you're gonna poison them. You're gonna poison the well, muddy the water.

[Jay Dyer]

So does that mean you're taking the fake Angelian side in this debate?

[Guest Caller]

I'm taking. Well, I'm a contactee.

[Jay Dyer]

So is that a yes? Can you just speak plainly?

[Guest Caller]

I'm not going to tell you my position.

[Jay Dyer]

Okay, sure. Sophistry. Sophistry, as usual.

[Co-host/Moderator]

Dry.

[Jay Dyer]

What's up?

[Guest Caller]

I actually don't really know my position yet.

[Jay Dyer]

Depends on the position you take. What's up, dog?

[Guest Caller]

Hey, how's it going? Can you hear me?

[Inquirer/Questioner]

Huh? All right, perfect.

[Guest Caller]

I just wanted to, to get your thoughts on a rather speculative interpretation of Genesis and the Big Bang. So I'm wondering whether it would be theologically defensible to say that the Big Bang shouldn't be understood as creation itself, but rather the, the fall of Adam and Eve is what kicked off the fallen and broken cosmos. And that's, that would be the reason we see things like entropy and death. And I've heard you speak a little bit about. I don't know your position exactly.

[Jay Dyer]

Well, I don't believe the Big Bang. I believe in creation ex nilo, you know, the way Genesis describes it. So I don't, I don't even see, see the need really for Big Bang, in my view.

[Guest Caller]

Yeah, well, I, I thought this was just interesting because I've heard you say that stress very. I've heard you stress that there's no death before the fall. Absolutely. And I feel that this, again, it's just speculation, but this would, this would entail that because the fall is what created is what caused the Big Bang. I know you don't accept the Big Bang, but you know that there, there wouldn't be death before the Fall in this case. And.

[Jay Dyer]

Well, one thing I don't understand is like, if the Big Bang is the secular account of creation, how could the fall create and cause the Big Bang?

[Guest Caller]

I don't understand. How could the fall.

[Jay Dyer]

I thought you said the fall causes the Big Bang. Is that not what you said?

[Guest Caller]

Yeah, yeah, that's what I said.

[Inquirer/Questioner]

Okay.

[Jay Dyer]

But that's the secular account of how the. Or the origin of the universe begins. So how could the fall cause. Origin of the universe?

[Guest Caller]

Well, I'm not saying it's the, the origin of the. Well, I'm not speaking from a secular framework. I'm speaking from, from an orthodox framework. So I'm saying that, well, the universe, you know, this paradise is before the, the cosmos were created. So the paradise that Adam and Eve were in existed before paradise. Or, sorry, existed before the universe.

[Jay Dyer]

Well, that doesn't make sense with the Genesis narrative to me because, like, God is placing Adam and Eve on earth, which is in the cosmos, in, in an Eden.

[Guest Caller]

Well, I was thinking that this would be a sort of, you know, we know that God will create a second earth where things will be perfected. And I was thinking that this would be something similar, maybe not literally.

[Jay Dyer]

Well, I, I don't. I think that just like with Jesus taking on this type of human body and then glorifying it, in our view, the transfiguration of the cosmos is this cosmos transfigured. So it's not destroying all of this and then starting a new with the second one. It's this one Resurrected and glorified.

[Guest Caller]

Okay. Yeah, that makes sense. Well, yeah, I appreciate it.

[Spin Quest Advertiser (Bluff)]

Yeah.

[Jay Dyer]

Interesting questions. I. I haven't thought about that. Appreciate that. Let's go to read some of these super chats because I got to go eat before we do our show tonight. Remember, we'll be live right here in the show that you see on the screen. I'll be live with Tristana. We're going to go back into the

[Co-host/Moderator]

esoteric, back into crazy cults, mind control with aliens, UFOs, contactees. What are the patterns?

[Jay Dyer]

What are the soreness that you feel in your hindquarters when the aliens visit? We're going to be talking about that. So here he comes. We already know he's going to defend faking galleons. I knew it. I knew it. That's where he's going.

[Co-host/Moderator]

But we got to read this.

[Jay Dyer]

See, he doesn't want me to eat.

[Co-host/Moderator]

He's trying to. He's trying to filibuster so that I

[Jay Dyer]

don't have time to eat. So that I'll be weak. So that he can abduct me.

[Guest Caller]

Notice he just says words.

You can just.

[Jay Dyer]

Always with words.

[Co-host/Moderator]

Just.

[Jay Dyer]

Just words and whole strings of words. They don't mean anything.

[Guest Caller]

Sentences and just like whole long word word things like. Whatever.

[Jay Dyer]

Let's try that and let's see what we get. Water Wanted. Ben Must.

[Co-host/Moderator]

Red.

[Guest Caller]

Door.

[Jay Dyer]

Narrator.

[Co-host/Moderator]

Different.

[Jay Dyer]

Each Queen. Window. Sleep. Fell. Friends. Box.

[Co-host/Moderator]

Hot Rabbit.

[Jay Dyer]

White. Anyone? Cold drink. What do you think? Literally no different than a transcendental argument.

[Guest Caller]

I mean, I couldn't tell the difference between.

[Jay Dyer]

Exactly.

[Guest Caller]

At least the Muslims that debate you say say based words like about. Like hurting people and human trafficking.

[Jay Dyer]

And at least they. They're like anti bb. So it's based, right?

[Guest Caller]

Yeah, they say base stuff. Exactly. Exactly.

Dude.

That's why they win.

[Jay Dyer]

Yeah, but I just say those. I just say these words.

[Guest Caller]

They say your name really a lot. That's kind of funny.

Jay Dyer.

Notice I'm here with Jay Dyer. Jay Dyer. Just.

[Inquirer/Questioner]

Oh, wow.

[Guest Caller]

Jay Dyer. Oh, Jay Dyer.

[Jay Dyer]

You're just gonna. You do sound just like him.

[Guest Caller]

Yeah, because he's. He sounds like.

[Inquirer/Questioner]

But he's.

[Guest Caller]

He's Arab, but he sounds like Puerto Rican. Like I'm like, I'm here.

[Jay Dyer]

But he did. Yeah, he did sound from New York.

[Guest Caller]

Whatever.

Jay Dyer.

O.J.

[Sleep Number Advertiser]

dyer.

[Inquirer/Questioner]

You're just gonna talk to me like.

[Guest Caller]

Like I'm some sort of Muslim. I'm orthodox Muslim. Jay Dyer, everybody.

[Co-host/Moderator]

That's exactly how he said it too. That's exactly what I point out.

[Jay Dyer]

To the judge and to the court

[Guest Caller]

that Jay Dyer doesn't even.

What was.

[Inquirer/Questioner]

What was his.

[Guest Caller]

What was he saying?

[Co-host/Moderator]

Well, I. I think a lot people

[Jay Dyer]

notice too, that if you watch, he's like. He's doing a performative kind of preacher thing because he's g. He's trying to get time to read stuff. So he's like, trying to read.

[Co-host/Moderator]

I'm serious.

[Inquirer/Questioner]

I heard the gl.

[Spin Quest Announcer]

Gl.

[Guest Caller]

He's getting messages the whole time. It's.

[Jay Dyer]

He's pausing to read, like, various messages and whatnot. It's what he's doing. Yeah, his buddies, dude, they.

[Guest Caller]

They thought they owned you so bad.

O.J.

dyer, you say this argument?

[Co-host/Moderator]

Well, the funny thing is that.

[Jay Dyer]

The funny thing is that it turns out he does the same, like, routine with everybody. Like, his whole shtick is to just like make this huge bluster and then play victim in the chat. Just absolute giga chest.

[Guest Caller]

Like, you knew, dude, the other guy couldn't even get a sentence and he just rage quit.

[Inquirer/Questioner]

The other person.

[Guest Caller]

The other person can't deal with you because you're acting like a. These are rage.

Qu.

[Jay Dyer]

That's a win, right? That's a win. So if you just act.

[Guest Caller]

Oh, just giga. Chad just completely mogged him. Just destroyed his life.

[Inquirer/Questioner]

We will J.

[Guest Caller]

D's cooked. He'll never recover.

[Inquirer/Questioner]

Watch. You will never defeat this guy again.

[Guest Caller]

I bet he never interacts with this.

[Inquirer/Questioner]

With the.

[Guest Caller]

With.

With the orthodox Muslim again.

[Inquirer/Questioner]

Oh, what a w. No.

[Guest Caller]

Nobody.

[Jay Dyer]

Well, the f. The weirder part too is underneath every post now, I get like dozens of zero follower bot. Islamo bots commenting. And it's like, you go to the profiles. I put some of them up on Twitter. You put them up like, you look at them, there's like, there's no followers. They've not done anything.

[Co-host/Moderator]

So I'm like, are they hiring, like teenage Pakistani dudes? Like, how are they doing this? Like, what? No, I'm being serious. Like 100 serious question. Like, how are they.

[Jay Dyer]

Are they buying people to basically comment under any post that mentions om or libiano? Because I. I mean.

[Inquirer/Questioner]

I mean that.

[Guest Caller]

That's how bought. That's something you. When you bought something, when you pay for those services, you get like a rundown of things that you can do. You know, like when I'm bought in your channel, it's usually. I mean, whatever the current thing that I think is going to get under your skin, we target those terms.

[Jay Dyer]

So I'm being serious, though, because do you know how this works? I don't really understand how.

[Guest Caller]

I'm assuming that that's how it works because that's, I mean, it just makes sense if you're gonna build out some sort of a system to, you know, kind of send bots. It's all, it's all LLM based stuff. And I think what they do is they've got. There are all these companies that will like rent out accounts or something. They've got just, you know, hundreds of thousands accounts. Okay. We've got access to these hundreds of thousands of accounts.

[Jay Dyer]

Oh, okay.

[Guest Caller]

They, they're able to switch the names. They're able to kind of switch the, switch the profile probably in some semi or fully automated way to suit the client. And I also would say, I, what I would say is that the, Is that what they're doing because they have all this Arab money. There's all this kind of oil money flowing around. And you remember like when guys like Bobby started talking about.

[Jay Dyer]

Yes, yes.

[Guest Caller]

And they get, they flood these people with, with. They use basically like demonic tactics. So they'll flood somebody who's going to convert. Oh brother, you're so amazing. Your intellect.

[Inquirer/Questioner]

Allah, Allah.

[Jay Dyer]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Guest Caller]

Become Muslim. And they, they flatter them. They use flattery. They use kind of, they use like weird emotional blackmail tactics and just like basic low level kind of of manipulation psychological tactics on these people. And then they'll also flood them with donations and stuff. So you've got a lot of, you do have a lot of wealthy kind of Arab guys who've got a lot of time on their hands. Big portion of the air world are insanely wealthy. And they also have an inferior. In a huge inferiority complex with the west. Even though they, there's kind of this anti west type rhetoric.

[Co-host/Moderator]

There's also no there.

[Jay Dyer]

Some of the imams even mentioned the superiority they feel.

[Inquirer/Questioner]

Yeah, yeah.

[Guest Caller]

And it's the same thing with like Latin culture. Right. Like all the, all the South American elite, they all want to go to Miami.

[Spin Quest Announcer]

Yeah.

[Guest Caller]

And they want to be cool among the crowd of like rich, influential Miami Latinos and stuff. And it's like there's a. The Arab world is real similar. So I think those guys that they spend a lot of time, I'm assuming online and they really enjoy kind of putting money and energy into these guys that are affecting their perceived.

[Jay Dyer]

Yeah.

[Inquirer/Questioner]

Clout.

[Jay Dyer]

So like.

[Guest Caller]

So I think it's pet projects probably for like these shakes.

[Jay Dyer]

Yeah.

[Guest Caller]

They're just throwing money out there. And then the guys below them who are running businesses and you know, these type of guys who are like, they own like 50 Land Cruisers out in the Kuwaiti desert and they go fly helicopters out and drink camel milk at their parties with, you know.

[Jay Dyer]

Well, so like, if you look at this example I've got pulled up, you'll notice like, it's not a brand new account because it was created in March of 2024. But there's nothing on this except for one comment against me. And then if you go down to. That's your soccer count shirt. And then I posted another one of these. This one was just obviously some spam bot chick, some Asian chick. And it's basically one comment against me. Had no, no followers. This is the only comment. So now that's not all of them. There are a couple that are like, you can tell they're active Islamic, Free Palestine type profiles. But I would say the majority of the comments that suddenly just appear like everywhere underneath any Libyano or orthodox Muslim people post like you. I mean, I don't. Maybe it's just because I have attracted their attention. But you could try it out by. If you mention this, you will get like a lot of these bots, I suspect, because it's very similar on YouTube. When I put the YouTube video up, there was suddenly like, I mean, within like, no time, there's like 20, you know, Liviano bots all saying like the same basic type of phraseology, like, you lose.

[Co-host/Moderator]

You got cooked.

[Spin Quest Announcer]

No good. Ngl.

[Jay Dyer]

You cook now again. Yeah, they could be like actual Muslim, you know, goobers just living online. But deep J D. You cook, you cook.

[Guest Caller]

Andrew.

[Jay Dyer]

Andrew Tate.

[Co-host/Moderator]

Top G. Yeah, exactly.

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[Guest Caller]

Free take.

[Jay Dyer]

Yeah, Daniel, you want to say something?

[Guest Caller]

Yeah, man.

[Inquirer/Questioner]

I was gonna ask you a question that

[Jay Dyer]

I'm an inquirer of the orthodox faith. Okay.

[Inquirer/Questioner]

I've had some discussion with Catholics and

[Jay Dyer]

I've just tried to ask them, like, what are some of their criticisms of the orthodox faith? And something I've heard several times. There's one claim that says orthodoxy engages in like, a sort of ethnicism, which can in turn breed tribalism. And I was just wanting to know, like, maybe a counter argument you had for that. And yeah, genuine question. Yeah, go to Mexico, go to Italy, go to Poland. So, I mean, this is really not unique to any people. I mean, all people groups can operate this way.

[Co-host/Moderator]

I mean, there's.

[Jay Dyer]

You can go to areas of, you know, Germany where it's like, oh, we're Lutheran. You know, we're Protestant Lutherans here. And that's who we are. That's our identity. So, you know, this exists in Protestantism. It exists. Exists in Catholicism, Catholic nations, and exists in orthodox countries as well. I mean, you can go, you know, up to the Pacific, Northeast, and It's like, we're WASPs. That's who we are. You know what I mean? So you could argue it's even there with wasps. So

[Co-host/Moderator]

I gotta get to these super chats because I gotta eat before we

[Jay Dyer]

do our channeling session with trust.

[Inquirer/Questioner]

Where should I age?

[Guest Caller]

How long it take to eat? Because I'm. I could start my stream and just slander you muddy the water.

[Jay Dyer]

I already assumed you're gonna do that, so I was gonna start.

[Guest Caller]

Just start the street.

[Jay Dyer]

Yeah, you should rave.

[Co-host/Moderator]

No, I'm gonna. I'm gonna read the super chat. Stop.

[Jay Dyer]

Stop filibustering and wasting the time.

[Spin Quest Advertiser]

I.

[Jay Dyer]

It's like, you know, you don't want me on there. You just want me to not eat. You want me to be basically malnourished so that you can mind control me because I haven't had my vitamins today. That's what he wants.

[Guest Caller]

You're not allowed to drink water either. It's dry. You have to drive back.

[Jay Dyer]

He wants me to come to Ecuador. Basically, Tristan's creating an alien cult. He wants me to move to Ecuador and be the slave labor, to basically eat beans. Just live on beans and mud or whatever.

[Guest Caller]

Intellectual labor is the only work.

[Co-host/Moderator]

Okay, let me read the super judge. Hush, hush, please. He black Hebrew, $5.

[Jay Dyer]

We was James Brown Judaizers for Israel.

[Co-host/Moderator]

Give me $1,000.

[Jay Dyer]

You all need a.

[Guest Caller]

A.

[Jay Dyer]

A Zoom exorcism. I like that. I like that guy.

[Co-host/Moderator]

Aquanote.

[Jay Dyer]

10 bucks.

[Co-host/Moderator]

Would you check stream labs? For what?

[Jay Dyer]

I mean, I'll be reading both, dog. Let's see.

[Co-host/Moderator]

Aqua note, $25. Yeah, I've been a fan for a while. I'm not sure if you saw this.

[Jay Dyer]

You blocked me on Twitter. I mean, are you Aquanote?

[Co-host/Moderator]

I watch all your videos. I keep missing the calls.

[Jay Dyer]

I was hoping to be a troll and to donate.

[Co-host/Moderator]

Well, appreciate that, man.

[Jay Dyer]

I'll look for Aqua Note to Unmute or to unblock AC what's up ac

[Co-host/Moderator]

simple correction to apostate profit. There's no evidence for your girl a honey pot.

[Jay Dyer]

My bad.

[Co-host/Moderator]

You aren't an open religious heretic, you

[Jay Dyer]

just aid the heretics and the humanists. Oh is that what he argued? I didn't even pay attention to APS stream. I've again I parted ways with all that long time ago.

[Guest Caller]

So

[Co-host/Moderator]

black Hebrew Israelite you mixing coffee with the color quandas that's light and sweet hold all the RSL demoside Jamie can you give me espresso visible chunk 20 today Bishop Spiridon of Chicago Mid America letter Divine liturgy and there was a doxology for St. Pantalayon the Russian Orthodox Church seventh anniversary. This was actually a very great event. Well that's great man. Sounds really cool.

[Jay Dyer]

I've been invited to some orthodox stuff

[Co-host/Moderator]

up in Chicago I just haven't been

[Jay Dyer]

able to get up there.

[Co-host/Moderator]

Lord Byron $20 the video where lrae and God Logic are talking at 24 minutes in God Logic rejects exclusivism from minutes 29 to 32 Theology matters but suddenly he won't debate it. At 56 minutes in he borrows some anarchical trinitarian doctrine but explicitly rejects orthodoxy. One hour and six minutes in notes. There's no follow up on any of the converts that he gets so.

[Jay Dyer]

So God Logic is supposedly converting everybody but he doesn't care what they're converting to or what church. Well by the way he does send them to the Messianic synagogue where they snip snip you pee pee.

[Co-host/Moderator]

So that's not true. At 1 minute and 131 hour 13 in he griffs Sam Shamoon's articles for a new God Logic book. Interesting.

[Jay Dyer]

I bet he doesn't even cite it. Watch him not even cite the sources. So that's Lord Byron is saying if you go watch Lecrae and God Logic interview it proves all these points we've been making.

[Co-host/Moderator]

AC20 do you remember when AP slandered

[Jay Dyer]

Andrew Wilson said he was anti Semite because he said that we don't have a duty to support Israel and some who?

[Co-host/Moderator]

Who are you saying somebody apologized? I remember this. I was in David Wood's audience and

[Jay Dyer]

I was holding him to account for saying that we all support Islam and then it's Ridvan saying that there is no such thing as a deep state.

[Co-host/Moderator]

They're just normies dude.

[Jay Dyer]

They're like normie or they're just paid

[Co-host/Moderator]

chills so or both Pro Zelch gaydar fallacy tingu. $10. Jay, you talk a big game, but you're running from Pastor Randy Balls for years now. Well, that's the one person I'm afraid of. I'm not afraid of Sneako and butt buddies. He's got.

[Jay Dyer]

No.

[Co-host/Moderator]

I'm afraid of Randy Bowles. Nick 20. I found a Greek Orthodox church near me.

[Inquirer/Questioner]

Should I go?

[Guest Caller]

Yes.

[Co-host/Moderator]

I get confused what Orthodox actually is. I actually want to go learn. Well, that's where you got to go learn. Do not rely on Internet. In fact, that should be backup. Okay, Internet orthodoxy is backup. Not your primary source. You got to go to the actual church. Jose, $10. Jay, have you seen Nexo video title called Internet deepest rabbit hole? Actually did watch part of that and I thought about covering it.

[Jay Dyer]

It's in my to watch videos.

[Co-host/Moderator]

We've been so distracted with all of these debate goobers that I haven't gotten

[Jay Dyer]

to all the other interesting stuff that I want to get to.

[Co-host/Moderator]

Which we will be getting to here in a minute with Tristan.

[Jay Dyer]

But yeah, in fact, the Internet deepest rabbit hole was interesting.

[Co-host/Moderator]

I watched half of that video and

[Jay Dyer]

I thought it'd be good to watch on a stream.

[Co-host/Moderator]

Odd Harvey, $10. When I was a Protestant about five or six years ago, the popular apologists were not like this.

[Jay Dyer]

I know they weren't like these Gen Z goobers. And the. And the AI has basically ruined all of this. I mean, most of it. We're gonna keep it high tier, but a lot of this stuff is just garbage.

[Co-host/Moderator]

Now they would call the Roman Catholic Church Antichrist. They would get called out and call

[Jay Dyer]

out other Protestant groups.

[Co-host/Moderator]

Now it's. Well, they're all a humanist softies now

[Jay Dyer]

because it's just about the optics and getting a bigger market it. That's it.

[Co-host/Moderator]

Joe, go $5 for those hesitant to leave a heterodox church. Matthew 10:37, 39. If you love Mother Father Mother more

[Jay Dyer]

than me, you're not worthy of me.

[Co-host/Moderator]

Ernest goes to hell. Catechumen here being received in the Orthodox Church rather quickly. Is this irregular? I mean, six months is pretty fast.

[Jay Dyer]

But you know, if they're going to receive you in six months, it's kind of their decision. But usually it's. It's a year.

[Co-host/Moderator]

But I can't even read all that gibberish. It says your focus should be on yakub. How do you achieve a yakub hairline? What about that guy interviewing Avery? He had a Yakube hairline. Interesting. Christos and sd. God bless you. Tristan has a lot of insight on

[Jay Dyer]

that from personal existential experience.

[Co-host/Moderator]

Experience. David, $5. Guys, help Jay hit that goal. Yeah, the goals are a little deceptive

[Jay Dyer]

because it looks like there's no goal because obviously the YouTube goals are not counting the streamlab super chats. But you can, you can help me to hit both goals if you want.

[Co-host/Moderator]

In the filth, Tim Gordon looks like Bay's Chris Angel.

[Jay Dyer]

That was the funniest comment of the night.

[Co-host/Moderator]

I don't know why how I missed that joke. That was the obvious one. I should have made that a long time ago. Viceroy, $20. Being a nick Cage fan, did you see Spider Noir yet? No, it's on my list. I just keep haven't got to it. Do you ever talk to the boys

[Jay Dyer]

at MDE about Jesus?

[Co-host/Moderator]

I mean I've had long talks with Sam about it, about various aspects of theology, but I've not talked to Charles about it. Charles put out a video about the Catholic Church not that long ago.

[Jay Dyer]

Was he pro or critical?

[Co-host/Moderator]

I don't know. I did talk to Nick some about

[Jay Dyer]

it when we went to dinner and hung out, but I think Nick's just kind of like yeah, I'm Catholic or whatever. He kind of has a like yeah, I'm just, I'm a, you know, raised Catholic, so that's just what I am. That type of attitude.

[Co-host/Moderator]

But I mean Nick has found I

[Jay Dyer]

think some of my posts and videos interesting. But I don't know how interested in theology is. So I don't know.

[Co-host/Moderator]

It's VARA $5. Same with debating evolution. If an evolution person proponent assumes a bunch of epistemology, metaphysics, it's. Yeah, it's a fruitless debate.

[Jay Dyer]

If you're debating like a evolution guy

[Co-host/Moderator]

to act like, oh well, we all have the same, you know, starting ground.

[Jay Dyer]

We don't. That's my whole point.

[Co-host/Moderator]

Lost to average $10. Jay, I'm checking in. Pleasure to get to meet you at debacon. Yes, great. Great to meet you too. By the way, I've not forgotten that

[Jay Dyer]

the message you sent and I'm going to send you a book Averis. Don't worry, I haven't forgotten. Appreciate the reminder.

[Co-host/Moderator]

AC 5 bucks when you call ICE on the entirety of Jesus and whatnot's audience the ICE arrest the ICE officers

[Jay Dyer]

inform you that they're arresting Erica Bara and Voice of Greece. They're all in the same audience because

[Co-host/Moderator]

that's the cholo audience, bro. Hey everybody.

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[Co-host/Moderator]

Hey dude, don't call no ice on me, bro.

[Jay Dyer]

Jails bought.

[Co-host/Moderator]

Andrew took money. He doesn't believe in the government.

[Guest Caller]

Wait.

[Co-host/Moderator]

He doesn't believe the government story and doesn't care about truth. He only wants to put Candace on trial. I think Andrew taught one day at TPUSA so that there's no way that

[Jay Dyer]

can be that much money. But I don't think that. I don't agree with every one of Andrew's positions, but I don't think that that Candace would win that debate just solely on the basis of who I think is a better debater. But I don't think Candace is the best representation of Candace.

[Guest Caller]

Even if Candace had the right position, she probably wouldn't win that debate.

[Jay Dyer]

That's what I'm saying. So regardless of who's right or wrong.

[Guest Caller]

Completely.

[Inquirer/Questioner]

Yeah.

[Guest Caller]

I mean, and just seeing how Candace, she's not, she's not a professional. She's not an investigator. Right. Like Candace is right. You know, she's like a scorned ex girlfriend. I don't, I don't. I'm not trying to like be mean to Candace. I actually respect that she lost a friend. She's pissed off and you know, but yeah, I don't think she was. She was gonna win a debate against him about most.

[Jay Dyer]

I would have liked to have seen the Candace Ben Shapiro debate. That would have been an interesting debate because I actually think Ben Shapiro is a little overrated in debate. But anyway, John says for five bucks, Muslim logic, favorableism.

[Co-host/Moderator]

If Muhammad is favorable and a claim says that it is true, if it

[Jay Dyer]

is unfavorable, it is false.

[Co-host/Moderator]

Evidence is always secondary.

[Jay Dyer]

Oh, absolutely.

[Guest Caller]

Yeah.

[Jay Dyer]

I mean, this is. I mean, there's no better example of like paradigm, you know, confirmation bias than Muslims. I mean, did you guys hear when

[Co-host/Moderator]

Sam Shamoon came on last night and

[Jay Dyer]

he did the Messianic dilemma?

[Co-host/Moderator]

Not a single one of the Muslims

[Jay Dyer]

could even like address it. Like, they couldn't even state what he was arguing.

[Co-host/Moderator]

It was crazy.

[Jay Dyer]

But that proves exactly what you're saying.

[Co-host/Moderator]

Illy little Natty says for 10 bucks. Jay, I'm learning about theology and different ideologies. But how do you keep yourself grounded in truth? For example, C. S. Lewis says there's a tag argument.

[Jay Dyer]

But don't. But he doesn't. But it's not. But you don't use mere Christianity.

[Co-host/Moderator]

Well, just because a person's using a

[Jay Dyer]

tag argument doesn't mean for a. Like a bad line of reasoning. That doesn't mean that tags bad or that they don't have part of the. Of the equation. Right? I mean Van Till does transcendental argument. That doesn't mean I'm a Calvinist. CS Lewis does a type of a transcendental argument. Yes, but that doesn't mean that he's necessarily being consistent.

[Co-host/Moderator]

So in other words, there's no necessary

[Jay Dyer]

connection between tag and mere Christianity that C.S. lewis promotes.

[Co-host/Moderator]

Papa says for $3 I'm sending an

[Jay Dyer]

amount equal to orthodox Muslims IQ. So 3.

[Co-host/Moderator]

But what if it's.

[Jay Dyer]

What if the IQ is related to the pennies? So you're saying that orthodox Muslim has a 300 IQ? I'm pretty sure he does because that dude was so freaking smart.

[Co-host/Moderator]

Iron Giant, 5$. Jay Dyer. Jay Dyer, Iron Giant $5. Didn't Jesus and whatnot debate a Muppet?

[Jay Dyer]

Are you talking about need God? Are you calling need dot Muppet? He does look like a Muppet. He looks like a.

[Co-host/Moderator]

He's some weird protestant who looks like a Muppet.

[Jay Dyer]

Yeah, he's about need God.

[Co-host/Moderator]

That's funny. Ryan Finley, $10. Jay, is there any chance that we get a formal scepter? Wigsantium restoration, Recognition of the spheres of Orblandia?

[Jay Dyer]

We'll see.

[Co-host/Moderator]

We'll see where it goes. We're still, you know, in negotiations with. Now Sam did say that he wants

[Jay Dyer]

a list of the issues with Vatican 1, Vatican 2. So I said okay. Okay, I'll give you that. I think I listed in the past, but we could do that again. It was probably way up in the chat. So yeah, we'll see where it goes.

[Co-host/Moderator]

A full center, $20. Is it not the duty church to have a view on immigration? They offer the sacraments to everyone.

[Jay Dyer]

No, you're saying it is not the duty is the emperor's duty to actually protect the nation? The society does not function when the one head of the eagle is absent.

[Co-host/Moderator]

I think that's an interesting point.

[Jay Dyer]

Yeah. Normally in a healthy society or something striving to be a healthy society, you would have, I think the church deferring to the state for that type of a problem. I think you're right about that.

[Co-host/Moderator]

Give me that old time religion. Thank you. In intrinsic distinctive. $10. There's nothing greater than a successful, educated

[Jay Dyer]

Black man on YouTube.

[Co-host/Moderator]

Thank you.

[Guest Caller]

You.

[Jay Dyer]

Thank you. Yeah, I appreciate that. I know you're not talking about God

[Co-host/Moderator]

logic, but thank you.

[Jay Dyer]

I am.

[Co-host/Moderator]

Marconi, $10. Have you ever looked into the Kybalion?

[Jay Dyer]

Yeah, I think it's just a bunch of mystical gibberish.

[Co-host/Moderator]

What about Neville Goddard's esoteric teachings?

[Jay Dyer]

I do not.

[Co-host/Moderator]

He was a Rosicrucian. I was misled by him. He takes Bible verses out of context.

[Jay Dyer]

Well, most of that esoteric stuff does that, but I'm not familiar with Neville Goddard.

[Co-host/Moderator]

Brennan. $10. Pray for that Roman Catholic guy that called in. I was in his position. I spent my life as Roman Catholic.

[Jay Dyer]

I was in the one true church. I used to ridicule the Protestants and

[Co-host/Moderator]

it took me many years to finally

[Jay Dyer]

realize that it was orthodox.

[Co-host/Moderator]

I appreciate that. Bank Piggy 15J. Special movie request. Do kill the messenger. You know we haven't done that in that. That's Oliver Stone, right? Yeah.

[Jay Dyer]

We need to do that.

[Co-host/Moderator]

There's a lot of scenes where Jeremy Renner is copying you.

[Jay Dyer]

What do you mean?

[Co-host/Moderator]

How is Jeremy Renner copying me? Now I have to watch it because I don't. How would he be copying me? Sweet princess. $5. Let's talk about why the Pope wears a zucchetto, aka a kippa. That is funny. I. I've wondered about that. I don't even know if I've even looked into that.

[Jay Dyer]

Why does the Pope wear his little Ben Shapiro hat?

[Co-host/Moderator]

Seeking the kingdom. $5.

[Inquirer/Questioner]

I heard that.

[Jay Dyer]

I bait with libiano.

[Co-host/Moderator]

Was that the first time you talked with him?

[Inquirer/Questioner]

Yeah.

[Co-host/Moderator]

I've never talked to him. I called in his live and I asked them about basic Christian history and doctrine. They didn't know anything.

[Jay Dyer]

Well, yeah, what did you expect? I mean, my assessment was that this guy's a total phony.

[Co-host/Moderator]

Fundamental Jiu Jitsu. $5. Why do women seem to be standoffish about orthodoxy? No, we did that that yesterday or two days ago.

[Inquirer/Questioner]

Excuse me.

[Co-host/Moderator]

Aqua note.

[Guest Caller]

We did that.

[Co-host/Moderator]

Anonymous 25. I had a followup to the last message. Jay or the Man. I appreciate what your content is all about. Whether it's deep analysis in movies or politics, breakdowns, geopolitics, holding these heathens to the fire. And you do it in an artistic, comedic manner. Appreciate that, dog. Tristan, you hear that? That's what you need to shoot for. Qard. $5. This is my gold fringed super chat.

[Jay Dyer]

It's under maritime jurisdiction and it invalidates everything because this is a Sovereign super chat.

[Co-host/Moderator]

Maritime.

[Inquirer/Questioner]

All true.

[Guest Caller]

Alex Thorn is a lawyer. He can definitely verify.

[Co-host/Moderator]

Maritime law grants that you can declare that you're a sovereign citizen and will know world order no longer has control over your sovereignty. You just declare it and it's legally binding. That was my Jordan Maxwell visible chunk. $20.

[Jay Dyer]

And we did that.

[Co-host/Moderator]

T Rock says for $10. Did you hear the video? See the video of Orthodox Muslim telling a female caller that he will grape her? He is a scumbag.

[Jay Dyer]

I've heard of this, but I haven't watched it. But no, I'm not surprised.

[Co-host/Moderator]

I mean that's the whole. That's that whole culture, dude. Potato peeler, $5. Jay, thank you for leaving orthodoxy. I will be starting catechesis in September. Appreciate that, man. Basil the Wigger Slayer 25. Hold up. You're telling me that a guy named Orthodox Muslim actually has a pension for doxing people?

[Jay Dyer]

No way. Who writes this stuff? Yeah, well, you notice by the way, they moved the goalpost because the initial reason I wasn't going to debate him was because he doxes people. Then they said there's no proof. And then when I put the proof

[Co-host/Moderator]

out, they say, yeah, but he's just doxing a fellow Muslim, you idiots. If he's gonna dox a Muslim, he'll dox everybody else.

[Jay Dyer]

So, like, this is the.

[Co-host/Moderator]

You're dealing with 80 IQs, bro. Nick Hughes, 20. I found a Greek church near me.

[Inquirer/Questioner]

Should I go?

[Guest Caller]

Yes.

[Co-host/Moderator]

Sin City. $5. Thank you.

[Inquirer/Questioner]

David.

[Co-host/Moderator]

If I said David Diarrhea. David de Zia, $11. I saw that you said Jerome was supporting Skittles. I listened to the audio. He said okay, you're lying.

[Jay Dyer]

That's not what he said.

[Co-host/Moderator]

He defended the homoerotic. If you don't act on it.

[Jay Dyer]

So you're lying.

[Co-host/Moderator]

Get out of here, Jack, $5. I attend non denominational. I'm orthodox. They believe in whats they'd always saved. What's the weakest point? I mean, the weakest point is that

[Jay Dyer]

evangelicalism is not a church. It's just a strip mall.

[Co-host/Moderator]

Do it yourself.

[Jay Dyer]

Business, business, church. So the weakest point is the canon conundrum.

[Co-host/Moderator]

J. Beast Dire. More like lowest tier goober Tsami Boy. Okay, Jose.

[Jay Dyer]

Gaming, $10.

[Co-host/Moderator]

Jay, you've been. I've been watching your content for a while.

[Jay Dyer]

No, we did that. That was the next PO rabbit hole.

[Co-host/Moderator]

Brian Ducas, $5. Jay, I'm watching AP. They're doing an Oprah a gab session about you. It was the fakest and gayest thing I've ever seen all year. Yeah, I don't care. Corey, at $5 true obedience. I mean we said a long time

[Jay Dyer]

ago to ridvon like you, you can't make orthodoxy Zionist. And if you're not going to submit to the church, then you're not going to become or it's not going to work. He doesn't care.

[Co-host/Moderator]

So, Corey, true obedience is always difficult. Multiple saints like Albertius of Odessa had to defy their fathers. God logic you got to do. Oh, I see a good point.

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[Jay Dyer]

You can't make an idol out of bishop Avery Austin.

[Co-host/Moderator]

T.J. five bucks. I've been reading the epistemology book.

[Inquirer/Questioner]

Good.

[Co-host/Moderator]

W.J. wood placed a huge emphasis on intellectual virtues to even be able to do philosophy. That is correct. You can tell that a lot of people that debate. You don't even care about this.

[Jay Dyer]

You are correct. The Muslim guy is a great example.

[Co-host/Moderator]

Absolutely. Guys, gotta remember Islam is a religion that is tribal in that it preferences in group tribal teams over any universal ethic. So there's no qualms for them to

[Jay Dyer]

lie and to deceive and to do the slimy tactics because it's part of

[Co-host/Moderator]

the Quranic ethic that literally said.

[Jay Dyer]

It doesn't use the word takiya, but

[Co-host/Moderator]

the Quran actually says smile with your face and hate them in your heart

[Jay Dyer]

so that you can deceive the infidel. They're. They believe they're justified in that.

[Co-host/Moderator]

I've asked God logic three times today.

[Jay Dyer]

You won't do it.

[Co-host/Moderator]

Cameron. Cameron says for $5 will Tristan be taking calls?

[Jay Dyer]

I don't know. What is that? Oh, Tristan is starting.

[Co-host/Moderator]

All right, I gotta go eat something and then I'll run over here. Tristana.

[Jay Dyer]

So you guys have a.

[Sleep Number Advertiser]

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[Guest Caller]

I only started now, so we could just try. Can you do a raid and you can just. I think it forces.

[Jay Dyer]

Oh, okay. Let me, let me. Yeah, let me, let me.

[Guest Caller]

It literally forces them to sit and watch the whole thing so we can you.

[Jay Dyer]

It will mentally, psychologically force the people to watch Tristan's show. So I'm pulling it up right now.

[Guest Caller]

I'm pulling out everybody in your chat and sends them to our next one. That's why I start. I'm going to make a coffee so I'll be there in like 10 minutes or something.

[Jay Dyer]

Oh, okay.

[Guest Caller]

Start with some slander and read some lifeless statements.

[Jay Dyer]

Some hate some. Yeah, exactly, buddy.

[Inquirer/Questioner]

The waters. All that.

Yeah.

[Jay Dyer]

Yes. So I'm going to physically force everyone to be redirected.

[Guest Caller]

Force all the nerds into the land.

[Jay Dyer]

Okay. I. I'VE updated it. It will now redirect mind control operation engaged.

[Guest Caller]

Operation MK Alien but stuff Cosmic Cosby engaged. Diddy diddy fried deep fried Diddy steaks. You're commencing. I'm gonna go make a coffee.

[Co-host/Moderator]

Yeah. Stop talking so I can eat dog, please.

[Guest Caller]

Hush.

[Co-host/Moderator]

He's trying to do this.

[Jay Dyer]

This is a strategy for streams as to make me emaciated and malnourished so I can't even think. This is his cult. It's his cult tactics.

[Guest Caller]

Did you take the vitamins?

[Jay Dyer]

I said the vitamins. AKA the Quaaludes that well put me to sleep for his alien nonsense. I thought the aliens can get you quads is what you claimed.

[Inquirer/Questioner]

Take.

[Guest Caller]

Try.

[Inquirer/Questioner]

Just take like three.

[Jay Dyer]

You'll feel really good for the stream and then. Then. Then his alien cult will be up

[Co-host/Moderator]

to whatever Jesus and whatnot. Actually debated a Protestant?

[Jay Dyer]

Yeah, with a. With a puppet. Oh, you're so you're talking about not need God. I thought you were calling need God not a puppet.

[Co-host/Moderator]

I thought you were saying he looks like a Muppet. You're saying he debated in action. So we're at puppet debates, right? We were making fun of Boomer puppet church. So this is the sad state of Gen Z apologetics.

[Jay Dyer]

It's. It's turned into actually debating puppets. You can't be serious.

[Inquirer/Questioner]

I got.

[Guest Caller]

I got to play orthodox Muslim in that. Jay Dyer.

[Co-host/Moderator]

J. Dyer. Jade Dyer.

[Guest Caller]

Ladies and gentlemen of the jury, I just want you to know and take note that Jay Dyer really talk during this debate which makes him cringe. I'm supposed to just say Jake Dyer and make my points over and over.

[Co-host/Moderator]

That's an A.

[Jay Dyer]

That's a really good impression.

[Guest Caller]

That's great.

[Co-host/Moderator]

Cryptic Cobra. Five bucks.

[Guest Caller]

Jay.

[Co-host/Moderator]

Thank you for orthodoxy. You love me in orthodoxy. I'm about to go to a Catholic seminary. But I dropped out.

[Jay Dyer]

Oh, interesting.

[Guest Caller]

Crazy.

[Jay Dyer]

Well, look, you just avoided you.

[Co-host/Moderator]

You just kept your.

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