Rome, SSPX, Godlogic Problems & RELIGIOUS CHAOS!m -Jay Dyer

Summary

Jay'sAnalysis Podcast – Episode Summary
July 5, 2026
Host: Jay Dyer
Episode: Rome, SSPX, Godlogic Problems & RELIGIOUS CHAOS!

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Episode Overview This packed episode of Jay’sAnalysis delves into the controversies, history, and recent developments concerning the Society of St. Pius X (SSPX) within Roman Catholicism, the issue of doctrinal authority in Rome (especially relating to Vatican II), broader chaos in contemporary Christianity, and pointed commentary about notable apologetics influencers like “God Logic.” Jay draws deeply on his own pilgrimage through traditional Catholicism and uses his signature blend of humor, acerbic critique, and reference-heavy argumentation to highlight what he sees as the core contradictions in both trad-Cath and broader Christian spheres today.

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Key Themes & Discussions

1. The Guru/Cult Mentality in Religion

Timestamp: 03:58–06:39

• Jay opens with a satirical take on religious gurus and cult leaders, mocking their hypocrisy:
  • "Oftentimes, the communal living that the guru demands doesn't match up to the guru who's driving around in a freaking Rolls Royce. How many swamis got a dang Rolls Royce?" (04:08, Jay)
• Ridicules the cultic energy found in many supposedly “spiritual” movements, focusing on the energy-draining, materialistic, and controlling aspects.

2. Jay’s Background in Catholic Traditionalism & The SSPX

Timestamp: 09:43–16:04

• Jay recounts his personal journey through Western Christianity, from Protestant apologetics to Catholic “Novus Ordo”, and finally an eight-year deep dive into the SSPX.
  • Explains why many, like himself, were drawn to the Latin Mass due to abuses or laxity seen in mainstream Catholic liturgy.
  • Provides historical context: Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre, Vatican II, and why SSPX was excommunicated in 1988 (“Latæ sententiæ,” meaning automatic excommunication for illicitly consecrating four bishops without papal approval).
  • “Nobody judges the first see; you don't get to decide that…” (16:04, Jay)

3. Theology and Internal Contradictions of the SSPX

Timestamp: 16:04–25:00

• Jay discusses Lefebvre’s nuanced (or at times inconsistent) stance—signing Vatican II then recoiling from its implications.
• Roots of the French tradition of resisting papal absolutism (Gallicanism, Jansenism) and its influence on the SSPX mindset.
  • “The chief error… is the idea that the Bishop of Rome or the Roman See can promulgate defective rights and disciplines for the Church. It's exactly the argument of the SSPX…” (22:15, Jay)
• Draws parallels between old French theological controversies and SSPX’s current views.

4. Problems, Scandals, and Political Overlaps in Traditionalist Circles

Timestamp: 25:00–32:35

• Recounts prominent SSPX personalities (e.g., Bishop Williamson), links to far-right politics, and scandals (multiple abuse and financial controversies).
  • “The point I'm trying to make here is that even amongst the trad cats, there's a bunch of gay dudes… So just because they're trad, don't fall for the idea.”
• Critiques "celebrity" Catholic figures (Michael Voris, Church Militant), exposing infighting and public scandal.
  • Notable, vivid quote: “They're not healed, they're still butt buddies. They think that this mechanical externalist religion… is going to fix all this.”

5. Traditional Catholic Literature & Critiques of Americanism

Timestamp: 32:35–44:44

• Jay reviews his comprehensive reading during his TradCat phase:
  • Books by Solange Hertz (Star-Spangled Heresy), Michael Davies, Lefebvre (“They Have Uncrowned Him”)
  • Recalls debates about the "social kingship" of Christ versus modern American democracy (“critiques of republicanism, democracy, the Enlightenment ethos of America”)
• Emphasizes that most SSPX laypeople are just seeking reverent liturgy rather than steeping themselves in theological detail.

6. The Heart of the Matter: Are Catholics Bound by All Magisterial Teaching?

Timestamp: 44:44–62:35

• A detailed, document-based argument about Roman Catholic authority.
  • Jay cites from Denzinger and Canon Law, refuting the widespread trad notion that Catholics are only bound to infallible ex cathedra statements:
    • “It is false to think that you're only bound by the ex cathedra… you are also bound by the ordinary teaching…”
    • “To say that I'm only bound by ex cathedral dogmas… is absurd and opposed to Catholic dogma.” (48:20, Jay)
• Vatican II’s binding nature: the “pastoral not dogmatic” loophole is refuted based on Canon 752 and numerous papal statements.

7. Systemic Contradictions & The Orthodox Critique of Rome

Timestamp: 62:35–77:08

• Jay claims traditionalists are playing “mental gymnastics” and self-deception by pretending Rome gives doctrinal certitude but selectively disobeying the magisterium when it contradicts their preferences.
  • “No one judges the first C; that is the Roman Catholic system, especially the ethos of Vatican one…” (66:21, Jay)
• Points out that according to official Catholic teaching (Lumen Gentium 25 and others), “you're not just bound by the few dogmatic statements…”
• Explains what he sees as the absurdity of distinguishing “valid but illicit” in sacraments, jurisdiction vs. grace, etc.

8. The Papacy as an Innovation: Gregory VII and Historical Development

Timestamp: 87:43–94:15

• Traces major papal claims (e.g., Rome deciding all bishops worldwide) as a second-millennium innovation, not part of original Christianity.
  • “That alone is an innovation in the 11th century… Do you understand? This is new and this is based on forgeries.” (88:28, Jay)
• Connects today’s chaos to the “Gregorian revolution”, with the Vatican now a political power at odds with its own history.

9. Recent Debates, God Logic Critique, and Modern Grift

Timestamp: 101:47–139:24

• Jay plugs upcoming DebateCon appearances and reviews past and future debates, including with “God Logic” (Avery).
• In a lengthy, mocking segment on “God Logic,” Jay criticizes "churchless apologetics.” He asserts Avery’s approach is a grift—prioritizing market share and viral potential over doctrinal consistency:
  • “A grifter is a person who puts that [money] first. Well, it turns out we now know what church God Logic goes to… recently still promotes his dad's crazy cult.”
• Segments from Bishop Avery Austin’s “Total Deliverance Ministries” are lampooned, with Jay and Avery parodying prosperity gospel and deliverance charlatanry.
  • “He getting up on the pews. He walking on the pew. He feeling it… His daddy at fake bishop fart church…” (112:43, Jay)
• Jay posits that the culture of churchless apologetics is fundamentally un-Christian, Americanized, and intellectually dishonest.

10. Wrapping Up, Super Chats, and Final Assessment

Timestamp: 142:28–End

• Jay fields super chats, blending ironic appreciation for fans with dismissive takes on critics.
• Returns to the episode’s major thesis: The current Roman Catholic crisis cannot be solved within the Roman system, and Orthodoxy provides a better answer.
  • “You can either as a Roman Catholic, accept what Rome says or you don't. If you don't, you're in the same position as us. You're just pretending and playing a game, as if you're Roman Catholic…” (77:08, Jay)
• Emphasizes his vindication over many years in these debates.

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Notable Quotes/Memorable Moments

• “How many swamis got a dang Rolls Royce?” (04:08, Jay) — on spiritual leaders’ hypocrisy
• “They think that this mechanical externalist religion…is going to fix all this. They think that just saying the rosary forever is going to fix all this. They think it’s the end of the world, so they fall into some kind of end times cult.” (32:35)
• “In the Roman system…when Archbishop Lefebvre did this [consecrate bishops], he actually was denying Vatican one, and not just Vatican one, but the entire second millennium of Latin tradition and…law.” (16:07)
• “No one judges the first C; that is the Roman Catholic system, especially the ethos of Vatican one.” (66:21)
• “If Vatican 2’s rights are defective...it undoes the whole religion because, well, maybe Trent’s rights were defective. It’s the same principle behind why you can’t question canonization of saints.” (48:20)
• “You can either as a Roman Catholic, accept what Rome says or you don't. If you don't, you're in the same position as us. You're just pretending and playing a game…” (77:08)
• “A grifter is a person who puts that [money] first. Well, it turns out we now know what church God Logic goes to, or at least has tended to go to. Maybe he attends some other church on the side, but he also recently still promotes his dad's crazy cult.” (106:20)
• Extended parodies and laughter regarding prosperity gospel/preacher antics: “He getting up on the pews. He walking on the pew... His daddy at fake bishop fart church.” (112:43)
• On the irony of the whole situation: “Rome hates the traditionalists. That’s what I finally learned as a SSPX person. And I realized... Why am I being retarded? Trying to get people to submit to an entity that...hates me?” (94:15)

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Important Timestamps & Segments to Check

• [03:58] Satirical take on cult leaders and spiritual grifters
• [09:43] Jay’s journey via Catholicism and detailed SSPX history
• [22:15] The Papal Bull against Jansenists and its application to the SSPX crisis
• [44:44–62:35] Deep dive: Magisterial teaching, Vatican II, Denzinger, and canonical authority
• [77:08] The system failure: Critique of internal contradictions in trad-Catholicism
• [87:43] Historical context: Papal authority as an 11th-century innovation
• [101:47] DebateCon announcement; critique and exposé on “God Logic”
• [112:43–139:24] Extensive mockery of “deliverance ministry,” prosperity gospel, and churchless apologetics
• [142:28–end] Final Q&A and closing commentary

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Structure & Tone

• Jay is characteristically sardonic, heavy on references, and mixes personal anecdotes with biting systemic critique.
• Frequent comic and irreverent segments—particularly regarding American Christianity’s celebrity/preacher culture.
• The podcast oscillates from history/theology deep-dives to outright roast-style commentary on personalities and movements.

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For Listeners: Core Takeaways

• The crisis in traditional Catholicism is not a matter of merely Vatican II or papal personalities—it’s structural and doctrinal, rooted in innovations since the 11th century and deep contradictions about authority.
• Trad/Catholics trying to “have it both ways” (obey but only on their terms) are condemned within their own system.
• Orthodox Christianity, Jay argues, saw and avoided these pitfalls a millennium earlier.
• The modern American church scene is rife with opportunism, market-savvy “apologists,” and showman preachers—further evidence of religious chaos today.
• Jay’s decades-long engagement gives him a unique vantage point, and he uses humor (often crude) as both catharsis and critique.

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Episode Summary by Section

• Cultic religious energy: mocking “spiritual” hypocrisy and leadership style.
• Personal testimony: Jay recounts journey from Protestantism through Catholicism and into the SSPX, with historical stops.
• Traditionalist contradictions: Exposes the theological self-defeat in how trads reject papal/conciliar authority, yet cling to Roman claims of certainty.
• Scandals and political mingling: Documents the scandals, far-right overlap, and cultish potential within the trad-Cath and SSPX spheres.
• Deep dive into doctrine: Cites multiple Church documents to show trads’ arguments are, in fact, “Protestant” by their own standards.
• God Logic exposé: Pivots to roast the Americanized apologetics scene, with heavy mockery of prosperity gospel, “deliverance” showmanship, and the reluctance to name (or join) a real church.
• Concluding reflections: Urges listeners to see Rome’s problems as systemic and beyond repair—offering Orthodoxy as the better way.

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This summary enables listeners who missed the episode to grasp the main argument, review key evidence and quotes, and know exactly where to jump in for further detail. The tone, attitude, and Jay’s irreverence are preserved throughout.

Transcript

[Jay]

Hey everybody.

[Lady Luck]

Lady luck here. And we're celebrating America's 250th birthday. Now all summer long I'm going to be celebrating by playing on spinquest.com which is an American owned social casino. It obviously features over a thousand slot games and live blackjack, live craps, live bubble craps. Head on over to spinquest.com get yourself a $30 coin pack for just 10 bucks.

[Spinquest Announcer]

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[Avery]

Again,

[Main Speaker / Jay (Extended Monologue)]

Let's see marks and traits of the cult guru they do not typically like you doing well.

[Lady Luck]

What?

[Main Speaker / Jay (Extended Monologue)]

They are persecuting me. They do not have spiritual eyes to cease. Therefore they must take down what they do not understand. That's that booger whistle baby. They're energy vampires. That's that booger whistle baby. I got a booger whistle flute they're energy vampires that's that booger whistleblower. Oftentimes, the communal living that the guru demands doesn't match up to the guru who's driving around in a freaking Rolls Royce. How many swamis got a dang Rolls Royce?

[Avery]

What?

[Main Speaker / Jay (Extended Monologue)]

I asked Vision last night the ascended masters came down to me. They says swami or to get roll. That's that booger whistle baby. They're energy vampires. That's that booger whistle baby. I got a booger whistle flute. They're energy vampires. That's that booger whistle bitch.

[Avery]

How many Rolls Royces you got get

[Main Speaker / Jay (Extended Monologue)]

over there in that communal living? By the way, get out of my Rolls Royce.

[Avery]

I heard he's got 14 Rolls Royces

[Main Speaker / Jay (Extended Monologue)]

and by Monday he would have 15. That's that booger whistlebag Their energy vampires. That's that booger whistlebank. I got a booger whistle fleet. They're energy vampires. That's that booger whistle bench Then we.

[Avery]

The engine is starting up.

[Main Speaker / Jay (Extended Monologue)]

God, it's a very tone.

[Avery]

He looks good. He looks good.

[Main Speaker / Jay (Extended Monologue)]

Basement, basement, basement Magic underwear fitting tight.

[Avery]

Magic underwear is feeling right Space wise.

[Main Speaker / Jay (Extended Monologue)]

Moment of space wise.

[Avery]

On the planet of love. Boom.

[Main Speaker / Jay (Extended Monologue)]

Right there. Let's create.

[Avery]

Space.

[Spinquest Promo Voice]

Yeah.

[Main Speaker / Jay (Extended Monologue)]

What's up, y'?

[Jay]

All?

[Main Speaker / Jay (Extended Monologue)]

Welcome everybody to another stream at a different time. I wanted to go ahead and just get busy with it. Get busy with it. Get busy child. Shout out to my SSPX, my USSR, my OPP and my CCPs and my OSS and my CIAs in the house tonight and my little LDSs shout out to all my acronym bros in the

[Avery]

chat

[Main Speaker / Jay (Extended Monologue)]

tonight or today it looks like nighttime in here because we got A we got a. It's like a rave but for nerds because there's books in here. It's a nerd rave in this room.

[Spinquest Announcer]

Dude.

[Main Speaker / Jay (Extended Monologue)]

Something a little different today. I didn't expect the suspects, the spooks, the SSPX to be in the news. Haven't really thought about the spooks in many, many years.

[Lady Luck]

Hey everybody, lady luck here. And we're celebrating America's 250th birthday. Now all summer long I'm going to be celebrating by playing on spinquest.com which is an American owned social casino. It obviously features over a thousand slot games and live blackjack, live craps, live bubble craps. Head on over to spinquest.com get yourself a 30 coin pack for just 10 bucks.

[Spinquest Announcer]

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[Main Speaker / Jay (Extended Monologue)]

And yes, I was in the SSPX as a Latin mass attendee for almost a decade, I want to say seven or eight years to be more precise. I converted to Catholicism, I want to say in 2002-3. Okay. And this was, a lot of people asked me this question today. This was the Novus Ordo, right? So I went into the normal normie Roman Catholic world. I was very intro, very interested in the Protestant Catholic apologetic in the late 90s, the early 2000s and started reading the Church Fathers and I fell of course for many of the papal quote minds. So I, I became convinced that you know, the really the only way to have doctrinal certitude, to have unity, to have all the things that the car salesman pitch pop apologists give you for the Roman Catholic Church. I fell for all those things way before most of today's dupes. I fell for it in 2001, 2 and 3. So I became Novus Ordo 2002, 3, did the RCIA and all that. And I would say within one to two years I was already convinced that I would be attending the Latin Mass. I saw a lot of abuse, not actually at my actual local Novus Ordo church. So I wasn't, I was actually in a fairly conservative Novus Ordo church that, that wasn't as bad as a lot of what you see. But I did travel and you know, see other Novus Ordo churches and I remember seeing hip hop masses and you know, guitar masses and clown ish masses, all that kind of stuff. And the more that I read the Vatican II theology, the more of a problem this became for me. So like many people, not everybody, but many people Sort of have this sort of detour into the Society of St. Pius X. And I was in that detour for again about seven, eight years because where I was there wasn't really a Latin Mass offered by the diocese. Back at that time it was pretty common that most many diocese would have some Latin Mass that would still be offered. And this is still, if you guys don't know, this is back in the John Paul II days. Right. This is back when John Paul II was still the Pope. But what many people may not know was that already in 1988, I want to say 1988, John Paul II had excommunicated the SSPX.

[Avery]

Right?

[Main Speaker / Jay (Extended Monologue)]

Yeah. And he wrote an entire encyclical in 1988 called Ecclesia Day. So really everything that we're seeing today and yesterday, the day before, it's just a repeat of 1988 and. But a little bit of history. The Society of St. Pius X was a missionary minded order, I believe if I, I mean I haven't been involved in this in so many years. But I want to say Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre was a missionary, Holy Ghost Father or something like that. And the idea was that it would be a missionary society at the time of Vatican ii. Lefebvre was a. Not actually opposed to, in fact Archbishop Marcelo ever signed on to the documents of Vatican ii. After Vatican II he began to have more and more reservations and problems with Vatican ii. And so I've read several of Lefebvre's books. I couldn't find the main one where he. There's a famous book where he almost goes set of a contest. There's many statements in the book where he sounds so of a contest, but he doesn't go full SATA. I think he kind of sensed that once you go that route there's way more problems for the position than trying to defend the succession of the papacy until the end of the world. Because of course that's what Vatican I says, that there would be successors, living successors to Peter in office in Rome until the end of the world.

[Avery]

So

[Main Speaker / Jay (Extended Monologue)]

what people don't know is that ironically the thing that got the SSPX excommunicated was not the theology. Technically speaking, I suppose you could be excommunicated for the theology depending upon how technical you wanted to get about it. Because if you reject an ecumenical council, you're technically putting yourself outside the bounds of the orthodox, I mean of the Roman Catholic Church. But we're going to set that aside for a moment because I will bring up one of the key issues that refutes the SSPX here in a moment. And that will be the question of the status of Vatican II and whether it's binding. And so that would be this one here. And the reason I'm pulling this up is because I have multiple significant notes underneath it where I lay out all the different documents that prove you have to believe Vatican 2 right here. We'll get to that in a minute. But so what actually got them excommunicated in 1988 was Latte Sententia, which is. It means that ipso facto, by the action of what you're doing, you're excommunicating yourself. So they were actually excommunicated for consecrating, I believe, four bishops back in 1988. So Lefebvre's argument was that in extremists, in other words, in extreme concern for the preservation of the Church, one could go outside the bounds of the normal canonical jurisdictional questions. So in Lefebvre's mind, because Vatican II and the reforms of Vatican II were becoming so problematic that he would need to go beyond just what was expected of papal approval for bishops. The problem, though, is that in the Roman system, both dogmatically and in terms of canon law, as you guys know from all of our, you know, orthodox apologetics over the years, when Archbishop Lefebvre did this, he actually was denying Vatican one, and not just Vatican One, but the entire second millennium of Latin tradition and Latin canon law, whereby the pope affirms and confirms every bishop in the world. And they forgot this curious little thing that you never get to judge the first circumstances. No one judges the first c. So you don't get to decide that. Well, this is a case in extremis where I get to bypass normal canonical procedures because it's the end of the world. I'm not going to say which podcast. I went on it. I told you guys already, I got the wrong Monday. It drops Monday the 13th, by the way. You guys want to. We can transition when this show ends, right into Lord Voldemort. So I would say head on over to X, because I will be hosting the fourth hour of Lord Voldemort right after this today. So. So, again, you don't get to decide, as an archbishop that you think Rome has committed decades of theological error and then. And then bypass the normal canonical procedures, that the bishop of Rome approves every consecration for every bishop in the world. So many people, by the way, over the decades have pointed out that because Lefebvre is a French Catholic prelate. There's probably a remaining sort of remnant of Gallicanism and the idea of synodality that existed amongst the Frankish Orthodox Church before they became papal. So the idea of, and I know Gallicanism is like Erastianism or whatever. I'm not arguing for that, but I'm arguing for this idea that amongst the SSPX there's been a tradition, an idea that there's got to be limitations on the papacy and probably there is some degree of influence there on Lefebvre and the French Catholic tradition. For example, many French Catholics were Jansenists, meaning they were radical Augustinians who believed in a very strict view of predestination. But there was a condemnation of the Jansenists which applies equally to the sspx. And I'll show you this right here, it's called Octorum fide and the Jansen is were not. I want the actual text, I don't want people's analysis of it. Yeah, so it's called Octorum fidelity and this is Pius xi. It's not Pius XI that's actually wrong. So it's not even here at the website. I'll just pull up the Calic Encyclopedia, I guess summary of it. Maybe that's the best way to do it.

[Lady Luck]

Hey everybody, lady luck here. And we're celebrating America's 250th birthday. Now all summer long I'm going to be celebrating by playing on finquest.com which is an American owned social casino. It obviously features over a thousand slot games and live blackjack, live craps, live bubble craps. Head on over to spinquest.com get yourself a $30 coin pack for just 10 bucks.

[Spinquest Announcer]

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[Main Speaker / Jay (Extended Monologue)]

It's Pius the Six and this is the Papal Bull that condemns the Jansenists. And there was actually many Jansenist errors. And there's not just one but the. The chief error that's condemned in Denzinger that's relevant to what we're talking about is the idea that the Bishop of Rome or the Roman See can promulgate defective rights and disciplines for the Church. It's exactly the argument of the SSPX when it comes to the defective Novus Ordo misse or the rest of the sacraments of Vatican ii because people don't know. It's not just a question of the Mass, there's also the other sacraments. So Vatican II engaged in liturgical reforms not just of the Latin Mass, but also the consecration of bishops, also the other sacraments. Okay, so it gets a lot more nuanced and hairy when you think, well, I'll just reject Vatican II and stay with whatever Catholicism was before, you know, 1960s or whatever. Well, you already have, all the way back in 1794, the papal condemnation of the Gallican and Jansenist sects and groups at the Synod of Pistoia. So the Jansen has had their own synod called the Synod of Pistoia in 1786. And the Papacy responded by rejecting every bit of the Jansenist Gallican positions. So with the sspx, we have a. Many have argued. I don't think it's probably the case, kind of a holdover of this older Frankish sort of French mindset. And if you listen to the old streams that we did with Snack, our ortho bro in France, we went into the history of France's prior to Papalism Orthodox period, just like the Orthodox period in Italy, for example. So many of the European countries, whether it's England, Ireland, France, Italy, they had a period before Papism where they were orthodox. And so in some of these places the notion of synodality and collegiality has continued on. And I think that's partly what's going on in the case of the sspx. But there's also other theological mistakes though that we. We're not going to get to today because this is not mainly about the theology. But there are still radical sort of Augustinian Jansenist ideas even amongst many priests and people of the sspx. Some of them are very committed to Thomas Aquinas. You probably heard of the famous

[Avery]

anti

[Main Speaker / Jay (Extended Monologue)]

septic, anti Z Bishop Williamson, who was one of the more famous bishops of the sspx. He was the British bishop who would call out and debate a lot of the big Z issues. And so there is a tendency also amongst some of the SSPX to sort of go in the direction of. I mean, obviously far right. For example, when I was in the sspx, we had a priest, his name was Father Gregory Post, P O S T. And he actually had a lot. There was a lot of distaste for him on the Internet because Father Post, I think he has passed away now. He was elderly when I was in the sspx. He was very much a fan of Tiny Mustache man. And not in my view, not for any legitimate reasons, but because there's a lot of kind of kooks and quacks in the sspx. The SSPX for example, had a recent series of scandals where that. Whereby they had a huge falling out with some of the people in other neo traditionalist circles. For example, there was the guy who ran Michael. What was that guy's name? Voris. Okay. The Whirlwind or whatever his stupid show was. Yeah. So if you guys don't remember, there was. For the voice of traditional Catholicism, in terms of the pro papacy sphere, there was this figure, Michael Voris, who was very popular in the 2000s and the 2010s. And back then, he would vortex, not whirlwind. It was the vortex. Back then, Michael Voris used to get, you know, like, hundreds of thousands of views on YouTube. And there ended up being some huge fallout with Michael Voris and people from the sspx. I don't know all the details of it. I think one of the Gordon brothers had some connection with this, but essentially this whole operation collapsed. The church militant, I think, was the organization. So church militant collapsed, which was Michael Vorice's thing, because as we all kind of already said, it was pretty obvious that Michael Voris was Skittles. And of course, it came out that he continued to have Skittles things going on. For example, here's an old Crowder with Michael Voris back in the day. The Pope's response has been tone deaf at best. Pathetic, evil. And so you can see that pathetic Michael Voris, even back seven years ago. Right. He was getting a lot of play. He was on Crowder, and it was obvious to everybody that this dude was still, you know, Skittles. Okay. Anyway, so there was a giant falling out, a bunch of, like, lawsuits. And then separately from Boris and all of this, there were SSPX scandals and lawsuits and gay stuff in the late 2000s. And I'm only pointing this out because some of this points to the cultic side of it. It's not even really worth going into all of the exact details of it, but foreign. The point I'm trying to make here is that even amongst the trad cats, there's a bunch of gay dudes. It's a lot of gay still. So just because they're trad, don't fall for the idea. For example, one of the famous. This is one of them. Father Arnaud Rostand, a very prominent SSP, SSPX priest from 202008 to 2014, District Superior admitted to decades of underage stuff. In the 2020, there was a Kansas Bureau of Investigation into SSPX abuse. Skittles, butt stuff. So this led eventually to an entire organization where people set up a thing for survivors of the sspx. There's also a side chain which gets into the history of the SSPX also having connections to high level corporate figures, very prominent sort of financiers in the, in the world of France. That's kind of a shady sort of unclear thing. I'm sure that there are espionage intelligence connections involved with the sspx but that's a little bit murkier and it's kind of hard to figure out. I do recall reading though that some of the chief members of the SSPX in terms of lay influence, they were like these high level CEO corporate figures which I mean yeah, technically it's not necessarily bad to have money but and and be involved at a lay level with this sort of a thing. But it does make one wonder the you know, why are the people running the SSPX seemingly kind of like weird French corporate dudes? And a lot of this domain overlaps with as we said, kind of COVID tiny mustache man support amongst French far right. And the French far right is its own whole bag of weirdness and scandals. And some of you might be thinking well base dude. The problem is that although it may sound based in terms of ideology, just like America's sort of quote far right, when you get into the odinists and the people who larp as tiny mustache man devotees, it turns into an alternate weird butt touching stuff. It just always does. I don't know why, I don't know why the so called far right, whatever that even means, why they always end up being involved in some kind of weird butt stuff. So no, you're not going to find I can tell you from experience now, I never, never had my butt touched. Father Gregory Post didn't ever touch my butt. But he did like to bring out his tiny mustache man World War II memorabilia collection which he thought was almost a sort of semi sacramental thing for him. He was a weirdo, man. He was a, an odd weirdo.

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[Main Speaker / Jay (Extended Monologue)]

But to get back to the SSPX so my experience was beginning to go to the Latin Mass in I would say 2003 and I met several SSPX people over the years and priests, not a whole lot. I would say maybe four or five priests. There was going to be a time where I was going to meet, I think Bishop Filet who's one of the more prominent older version, older old school SSPX bishops. But for whatever reason that ended up never happening. He didn't end up coming to the parish. Man, the allergies are terrible today. They cut the grass and there's grass allergies everywhere in the air. It's really bad. But I will say that, you know, my experience in the SSPX wasn't all bad. I, it was, they never treated me as if it was a sort of a cult thing. Although eventually as I got more and more say to in my opinions, I was eventually asked to leave the SSPX and Father Gregory Post threatened if I ever set foot on an SSPX chapel grounds again, he would have me arrested. Which is funny because the dispute between Father Gregory Post and I at this time was over the question of whether John Paul II would eventually be canonized. I argued that the Vatican II Church would have to canonize him because it would solidify the entirety of Vatican II to make one of the key architects of the implementation of Vatican ii. Right. Obviously John Paul II didn't do Vatican. I'm not saying that. I'm saying that to take it to the next phase I was like, of course they're going to canonize them. They're going to canonize just like they canonize Mother Teresa. And Father Gregory posted this would be impossible because for him he said the magisterium can't err and you know, canonizations are clearly part of the magisterium. If, if they weren't, then you could then doubt and question every saint in the history of the Church which would undo the entire religion. So clearly canonizations have to be part of the magisterium, he argued. But that would also mean that Vatican II is part of the magisterium. So this is, this is a double edged sword for the SSPX schismatic position. I was right. They did absolutely canonize. Jump all. The second Father Gregory post was 100 wrong. But this was around the time that I began to question just the entire Vatican structure. Right. I started thinking maybe something is off with just Vatican II Catholicism or perhaps the papist position in general. And I, I, you know, was a very hardcore trad cat, very devoted to it. I, I would have had a lot of the Same attitudes and positions of, you know, a lot of your trad cats that you see out here today. I used to read everything from sort of a contest stuff to, you know, Michael Matt and the Remnant and Michael Davies. I read the whole sort of spectrum of it. And just to show you that this isn't bull crap, I thought it'd be funny to go through a few of my old sort of SSPX era materials. One that I forgot I had, which is pretty wild, was. And I got this at the SSPX Chapel when I was a devotee. You can see here, I always write the data when I got the book. So here is me at the SSPX chapel, dating at 2024. And this one is a book about the kingship of Christ and the conversion of the Jews. And one of the things that the SSPX introduced me to was pretty significant critiques of Americanism. I wasn't really ready for that when I was kind of still in my Ron Paul libertarianist phase. But I was beginning to move in that direction. And so I remember the first significant critique that I read, which is still a very, I would say a really good book on the topic. It's very rare. You can't really find it. There's this oddball woman named Solange Hertz, and I believe she was sspx, but her. You could find her books at the sspx, but she wrote a book called Star Spangled Heresy. And this was one of the first books that really kind of made me question the whole idea of Republican democracy. Let's see when I got this one. So I bought this and read this in 2005. So there you can see I would sign my books when I got the book. So this one was 2005. I'm just, I'm saying this to show you guys that, like, I'm not new to this stuff. Like, I've been reading these books and involved in these worlds for back to the early 2000s. I mean, I was already grappling with the papacy trad cat stuff. I mean, right after night, the Big nine event, and a lot of people were saying, man, Jay was dealing with this back when I was in my freaking diapers. Yeah. So maybe I know a little bit about this. Maybe you shouldn't just assume that because I'm confident and speak in a masculine way, bro, he's mean.

[Avery]

He's me.

[Main Speaker / Jay (Extended Monologue)]

I don't listen to because he's me. The next book that really impressed me, I guess from that vantage point of sort of applying religion to the political sphere. And I was also amenable to this because as a, as a Calvinist, I was a Reconstructionist.

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[Main Speaker / Jay (Extended Monologue)]

Reconstructionists believe in a Christian state and the idea that the state also has a duty to God. They can't be neutral or whatever. The SSPX would put out a book by Father Stephen Delallo, if you don't know. The SSPX's publishing house is called Angelus Press. And so I would read Angelus Press books all the time. And this one is about the implications of Christ the King. For those that don't know. There was a questioning of the relationship of the Vatican and Christianity to the state all the way back to the French Revolution. And so if you're a trad cat, you believe that it's absolutely necessary to fight for the social dominance of Christianity, AKA Catholicism or Papism, through social kingship of Christ and the idea of the feast of Christ the King, which is Pius xi cyclical, that he wrote to promote the social dominance of Catholicism. Of course, Vatican II undid all that. And we've seen the ramifications in the Western Catholic world of the de Catholicizing and the de Christianizing of the state. Whether it's Spain or whether it's any of the France, any of the countries in Europe, they've all undergone this dechristianization that Vatican II then turns around and supports through documents like Gaudium et Spes, which are essentially Fabian socialist documents calling for de armament, calling for open borders, calling for essentially the end of the Christian state, religious liberty, right of private interpretation. All these Reformation era era heresies are all throughout the documents of Vatican ii. But everyone overlooks Gaudium et Spes because they're always focused on Lumen Gentium and Nostratate, which are absolutely the worst. But there is just as much error in the political severance of Christianity from the state as there is the soteriological doctrines of Vatican ii. So I read Sword of Christendom. I found that to be very convincing in terms of critiques of republicanism, democracy, the Enlightenment ethos of the United States of America, the ds, the Freemasons. I've been questioning America and Americanism and classical liberalism since 2002. 3, 4. So I'm not new to this, more particularly with the theology I remember and I still have some of my old ss. I have a. I have a prayer for the canonization of Archbishop Marcel lefebvre from the SS from my time of the SSPX chapel that's probably 22 years old. This Little prayer for the canonization and, and the removal of that. It's a prayer for his removal of excommunication and canonization. Yeah, good luck with that. That's never going to happen. But the sspx, for example, put out little books like Is Tradition Excommunicated? And I, I was pretty enamored with that one. And then again, when it comes to the social kingship, the social theology, I found Lefebvre's book, they have uncrowned him to be very convincing in terms of whether or not Vatican II had actually surrendered the, the theological necessity of social kingship of Christ. And again, I read this in 2006. You can see there. Also, when I was at the sspx, I would spend quite a bit of time pondering and wondering and debating the issue of set of aism as well. And so I read anti set of a contest treatise. I read the SSPX's book against set of Aism. There was quite a bit of controversy at the SSPX about baptism of desire. I've read the SSPX's book on that. I read and this was a very popular. I have the entire trilogy, but this is just one and two. I think three is up there. But I mean I read the entirety of Michael Davies. This is like a thousand pages total, all three volumes. Critique of Vatican 2. Michael Davies is a pretty famous SSPX trad cat guy. And this is also published by Angelus Press. So I mean, I'm trying to explain, explain that like, like I read all this. Like I'm not new to any of this stuff. I didn't just learn about traditional Catholicism. I mean, I read all this stuff. I read this in 2004. I read a thousand page treatise critiquing Vatican 2 in 2004 from Michael David back at the, at the time of this isn't sspx, but it's SSPX adjacent. There was a great, there was a good critique that was going around for many years called the Great Facade. Thomas woods and Christopher Ferrara's Critique of Vatican ii. This is a big fat beast of a book as well. But it's not just, as I said, the Question of the Novus Ordo. The Vatican II reforms also change the right of ordination of bishops. And so there's an entire book by Michael Davies critiquing the ordination of bishops. So I'm just showing you my pedigree. I'm a legit old school trad cat dude. Like I've been in this world and my catechism of Trent. This is the only catechism I would use. We didn't use the new Catechism in the traditional Catholic world. We only use Catechism of Trent. So as you can see, and by the way, that's not all. I've got other stacks of set of a contest trad cat books Like I lived and breathed this world throughout my 20s, so I'm not new to this. I've read Denzinger and Toto. You understand, most people in the sspx, they haven't even read Denzinger. Most people in the SSPX don't know the stuff that we're talking about. They don't read all these books. Most SSPX people are just people wanting the Latin Mass. They just want to go to a reverent liturgical service. They're not people all into theology and this kind of stuff.

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[Main Speaker / Jay (Extended Monologue)]

the chief argument with the SSPX ends up being, well, are they able to justify this halfway house position? Can you actually be a Roman Catholic and reject first and foremost Vatican 2 and countless other examples of magisterial teachings? So let's go to. And I put this into a giant tweet on purpose many years ago, which makes it easier to kind of reshare over and over. So let's look at this first, which is the question of is a Roman Catholic only bound to a handful, as they often say, of quote, infallible teachings? Right. This is a very common trope amongst Nova Sordo Catholics, traditional Catholics, many of them have this false, completely ridiculous notion that you're only bound to a handful of. Of magisterial ex cathedral teachings. Of course that's not true at all. And in fact, everything that we saw in the last few days with the Vatican's re excommunication of the SSPX actually proves the point that I've been trying to tell everybody and all these trad cats, thousands of them, for the last 10 years of online debating. Over and over and over we've had this exact same debate. And every action the Vatican takes reaffirms the arguments that I'm saying. You have to accept Vatican ii. You have to believe in the magisterial teachings, not just of Vatican ii, but even the normative ordinary teaching of the papacy after Vatican ii, implementing and affirming and integrating all the Vatican II reforms into the rest of the Church. It is not optional. The fact that it is called a pastoral council at times by Paul virtually has absolutely nothing to do with whether it's binding and authoritative. In fact, you could Call every ecumenical council pastoral because it's implemented by the pastors of the church and deals with faith and morals. The fact that Paul VI says it declares no new dogmas does not mean it's not dogmatic. And I'm going to show you multiple papal statements affirming, of course it's dogmatic. If it's not dogmatic, we wouldn't excommunicate the sspx. You would be free to hold opinions on it. By the way, there's never been an ecumenical council that was optional. It's so. But the sspx, like many people who don't go into the schismatic SSPX position is B is based on the idea that I can pick and choose the elements of Catholicism in terms of magisterium that I want and I don't want. This idea is condemned at least four times in Denzinger. There's actually another one that I left out. There's. There's four places. So let's look at these. Oh, I have had no luck lately.

[Avery]

Wait.

[Main Speaker / Jay (Extended Monologue)]

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[Main Speaker / Jay (Extended Monologue)]

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[Main Speaker / Jay (Extended Monologue)]

So this is Denzinger. For those who don't know, Denzinger is Heinrich Denzinger compiled together the sources of Catholic dogma. It is a absolutely normative, authoritative text for Magisterium. It is cited by the Vatican itself in Vatican documents. So you guys remember years ago we had that debate with that lunatic, the Kurgan? The Kurgan thought that it's just some guy named Denzinger who made up his own opinions. No, it's a collection of sourced magisterial documents. My Denzinger is in Florida, so I don't have it with me. But that's why I saved this. Denzinger, 1683. It's. These are the number systems in the older Dinzinger. In truth, we laud men and praise with due praise because they profess the truth which necessarily arises from obligation. We whisper, say to ourselves that he did not wish to confine the obligation by which Catholic teachers and writers are absolutely bound only to the decrees which set forth by infallible. Also, we do not wish to declare that the perfect adhesion to Real truths, blah blah, blah, blah blah. For even if we're a matter concerning subjection which is manifest in act divine faith, nevertheless it would not be limited to the matters defined by the express decrees of the ecumenical Councils or the Roman Pontus of this sea. So you notice there they tell you very clearly that you are not bound only by those decrees, but is extended to the matters of the ordinary teaching power of the Church. So Denzinger, right here in 1683, if you're a trad cat, tells you that it is false to think that you're only bound by the ex cathedra or infallible ecumenical council papal teachings, you are also bound by the ordinary teaching, whether extraordinary or non extraordinary ordinary teaching. And we'll look at what canon law says in just a second about the difference between the universal ordinary and the ordinary. Denzinger 1698 says this is talking about people who are have an errant position, a false theological position. Nor do they blush to profess openly, publicly the axiom and principle of heretics from which many perverse opinions and errors rise. For they say that the ecclesiastical power is not actually by divine right and it is not just and distinct from the it is distinct from the civil power. And it goes on to say that we cannot pass over in silence those who do not endure sound doctrine. One cannot withhold ascent and obedience to the judgments and decrees of the Apostolic Sea. You see that? So it's not just the ex cathedral, it's the judgments, which means disciplinary matters judgments and the decrees of the Roman See, the Apostolic sea, whose object is declared to relate to the general good. So anything relating to the general good, get this, its rights and discipline, right? There is no one who does not see that if you restricted your obedience, this is what it's going on to say here how absurd this would be. This is opposed to Catholic dogma. To think that you're only bound by ex cathedra is absurd and it is opposed to basic Catholic dogma. Denzinger 1698 so it's stating the errors of the modernists and it's saying that if you believe that you're opposed to Catholic dogma. Do you see that? To say that I'm only bound by ex cathedral dogmas and I don't have to listen to the judicial disciplinary decisions. The Roman See is absurd and opposed to Catholic dogma. Denzinger 1698 what is the position of the SSPX? I don't have to listen to the papal excommunications of Lefebvre in 1988 and the four bishops that he consecrated. Nor do I have to listen to the canonical excommunication judgments of yesterday's excommunication or whatever, what, two days ago, that very position is a Modernist position condemned right here. And that's the second one that we've seen, so that's two. And denzing or condemning. Now, do you know, guys, know why that position was condemned? Precisely because back at the late 1800s and early 1900s, the modernists of that time were already saying these same things. Yeah, I'll follow Catholic dogma, but I don't have to. For example, listen, if a Roman Catholic priest gets excommunicated for heresy, I can still read and promote his books and I can believe that that was a wrong excommunication. And Rome is saying, no, if we excommunicate a liberal, you can't reject it. You have to believe it. Well, guess what? The SSPX is doing the exact same thing as the Modernists. They're saying, I don't have to listen to Rome's excommunication because I've decided that Rome has aired here. Well, did you forget that no one judges the first circumstances? And that's not just in dogmatic matters. It's also disciplinary matters. And what do we see in octorum fide? Octorum fide says you can't say that the Roman See provides defective rights and sacraments to the Church. It would undo the whole religion. If Vatican 2's rights are defective, and the Papacy has implemented those for decades, it undoes the religion because, well, maybe Trent's rights were defective. It's the same principle behind why you can't question canonization of saints. If I can question the canonization of John Paul II or Mother Teresa, maybe Pius X wasn't a saint. Maybe Augustine isn't a saint in the Roman Catholic Church. Maybe Athanasius isn't a saint. So obviously it undoes the entire religion. When you open the Pandora's box of saying, no, I'm only bound by a handful of things that I've decided, by the way, what they are. Right? Because there is no infallible list of Roman Catholic dogmas. That's why every different Roman Catholic gives you a different list of what the dogmas are showing. They're in no better position than anyone else, Orthodox or Protestant. As I said here years ago, I wrote this, what, four or five years ago. The SSPX and traditionalist positions hinge on only being bound by Roman Catholic dogmas and not the ordinary teaching of Pope Francis and all of his craziness. But the very position that the trads hold is condemned in Denzinger, when Denzinger condemned the Modernists for having the same argument. I'm only bound by a handful of things. Therefore, I'm free to reject the excommunication of Teilhard de Chardin. I'm free to reject the I've got another Roman Catholic lib guy from

[Avery]

the

[Main Speaker / Jay (Extended Monologue)]

turn of the century. He wrote a book called Medievalism and the Papacy. Put that book on the banned books list and they might have excommunicated him. I forget the guy's name. But it's the very argument that the Modernists argue. Yeah, I don't have to believe that. I can. Rome has erred in their judicial decisions and in their sacramental liturgical teachings. Yeah, you can't say that, dummy. It undoes the whole religion. Obviously. Denzinger, 1722. The obligation by which Catholic teachers and writers are bound is restricted only to infallible judgments of the Church to believe be believed by dogma. By the way, if you're stupid and you don't have reading comprehension. Look, that proves my position. That means I don't got to. This is a condemned proposition, dummy. This is a list of the condemned propositions. So the proposition that you hear all these trad cats say all the time, and even the Novus ordinary Catholics. I'm only bound by the. The dogmas, the explicit few dogmas. No, that's a condemned Proposition, dummy. In 1722, in your books,

[Avery]

Foreign.

[Main Speaker / Jay (Extended Monologue)]

92, Denzinger, 1792. Further, divine and Catholic faith by divine and Catholic things, all those things are believed which written the word of God, tradition, either in solemn pronouncement or an ordinary universal teaching as divinely revealed. So the reason I have this. This is one of the phrases from Vatican 2. Vatican 1, when we talk about ordinary magisterium also being binding. Okay, so universal ordinary magisterium is binding right here. According to Denzinger 1792. That means you're not just bound by ex cathedra and extraordinary magisterium, you are also bound by universal ordinary teaching because it is also divinely revealed. This refutes the position that I'm only bound by the few dogmatic statements and ecumenical councils. No, it says, or in her ordinary universal teaching. That's the universal magisterium. If you get a standard Roman Catholic dogmatic manual that priests use at seminary, they will tell you what I just said. I have them on my shelf. We've reviewed it. I brought it to the Tim Gordon Debate with temple. So here are. That's four places in Denzinger that show you that you're not just bound by supposedly extraordinary teachings, meaning ecumenical councils or ex cathedra, you are also bound by the universal ordinary teaching. Now we're going to go even further for the full kill shot. Even beyond that, there is this category of what's called universal. Excuse me, ordinary. Ordinary teaching. Okay. Ordinary teaching would be the normal authoritative structure of your local bishop if you're a Roman Catholic, and the Synod of the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops, for example. Right. So, for example, the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops puts out a document on faith and morals, it could be about abortion, it could be about the Eucharist. Whatever they put out a document on, even if it's not infallible, you don't have the right to reject it and publicly go against it as a Roman Catholic. This is the ultimate condemnation of, like almost all of the Roman Catholic pop apologetics world, in canon 752 of their canon Law, it says, although not an ascent of faith, religious submission of intellect and will must be given to a doctrine of the supreme pontiff or the college of bishops on faith and morals when they exercise magisterium, even if it's not declared ex cathedra, even if it's not definitive or dogmatic. Therefore, you must not, you must take care to avoid the things that do not agree with that. That means that if your bishop or if your local Synod of Roman Catholic Bishops or your United States Conference Catholic bishop says something that you disagree with when it, when they're teaching about faith and morals, even if it's not magisterial, you're still bound by it with submission. You might not have to agree with that theologically, but you cannot publicly oppose it and say that it's wrong. You can say, well, my personal, private beliefs, I have my views, but I will submit to the teaching of the bishop in the church. Obviously, this is so obvious that in the Roman Catholic system, especially via the, the structure of Vatican I, you cannot defy the papal Roman teachings on anything in faith and morals. Now, if Ratzinger writes a book and it's his personal, private theological book, and you say, I disagree with this, this, this, you could do that because that's his private theological opinions. But if he's writing in the office of the Bishop of Rome and he's writing documents for the Church, even if they're not stated that they're for the entire Church, universally binding from the chair of Rome on Faith and Morals, Even if he's just preaching homilies, you're still bound by an ordinary normative authority to submit, whether you agree with it or not. Meaning you can't publicly teach against it. This is the kill shot for the sspx, obviously, and also for all of the neo trads who prop up Pope Leo as their authority, but who they constantly make videos and books against every day. So this is a kill shot for obviously the, the. The SSPX. Okay, Canon 752, Now it's not. That's not all there is to this story. Well, wait a minute. What about Vatican to itself though? What about Vatican to itself? Because maybe there's some loophole, maybe there's some way to get around it. By the way, guys, if you want to support the stream, you can do so through super chats. Super chats are done here through Streamlabs. We got almost 2,000 here. I've got 2,000 people interested in this boring SSPX stuff, but I guess when it's all in the news, people find it fascinating. So if you want to support the stream, there is the link right there through Streamlabs. You can also support natively through YouTube. I'll be answering your super chat questions here in a bit. As we said, as the this stream comes to an end, we'll transition over to X and you can watch me hosting the fourth hour of Lord Voldemort.

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[Main Speaker / Jay (Extended Monologue)]

So the first thing we want to talk about and I did a video on this back in 2020. We did a two. A one hour talk. Is Vatican two infallible? Are. Are we bound by Vatican II or is it optional because quote, it's pastoral and quote, there's no new dogmas? Well, you just saw Canon 752. That even if I granted, which I don't grant, even if we granted that Vatican II wasn't dogmatic and infallible, it's normative, ordinary teaching for the entire church. So does Canon 752 sound like you have the option as a Roman Catholic to publicly reject and disagree with Vatican 2? No, it does not. Not at all that is not the Catholic attitude. That's not Catholic moral theology. It's not Catholic piety. It's the very opposite of Canon 752. And as we saw, it's condemned at least four places in Denzinger. But that's not the only place. In fact, right after there was a liturgical celebration in 2017 for the new Mass, okay. And Pope Francis went and did a discussion on liturgical week or whatever. Liturgical week in Italy in 2017.

[Avery]

Well, guess what?

[Main Speaker / Jay (Extended Monologue)]

Francis actually told us. He gave us a very simple, easy explanation about Vatican II and the new Mass. It would be. It seems like it would be really helpful, right, if people have a question amongst the Roman Catholic world, hey, am I bound by Vatican 2, Francis and Rome, am I bound by it? Did you know that they have many times over said, yes, you're bound by it, and it's magisterium. And then the tried cats and I go, I don't know. We don't know if it's bad.

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[Main Speaker / Jay (Extended Monologue)]

What's the status of it? We need clarifications of the clarifications of the clarification. I mean, Tim Gordon, for example, was saying, we need a clarification of Vatican 2 on blah, blah, blah. Tim, wouldn't the clarifications be fallible? So by your own criteria, to have fallible clarifications of the magisterial documents defeats the purpose of having magisterial documents which are supposed to be the clarification. Will we need a clarification of the clarification, and will the clarification of the clarification also be fallible? You see how silly this whole system is? It's a ridiculous system, honestly, when you actually get to the root of it. But what did Francis say? Oh, well, it turns out Vatican 2, after this Magisterium, we can affirm with certainty and with magisterial authority that Vatican 2's Mass, Vatican II's liturgy, is irreversible. I wish that we had a papal clarification on Vatican. Oh, we actually do.

[Jay]

Right there.

[Main Speaker / Jay (Extended Monologue)]

Can you read? And you know what every Roman Catholic is going to say to this? I don't have to accept that. Oh, are you sure? Because Canon 752 says that when the papacy or the bishops are teaching on faith and morals, even if you don't think it's magisterial, even if the document isn't magisterial, if they're teaching on faith and morals, it's normative, and you submit with intellect and will, even if you disagree. So, yeah, it's magisterium and you're not a Protestant with the liberty to pick and choose what you want to accept. No one judges the first C, that is the Roman Catholic system, especially the ethos of Vatican one. What does Francis say right there? Clear as day. Magisterium. Here, I'll give you the document. It's at the Vatican website. All you goobers who literally have no reading comprehension, you can't read, you can't figure out what these things are talking about. All knows those three, we don't know. Continuing on, John Paul or, excuse me, John the 23rd. John 23rd gave an opening speech at Vatican II when he opened the council. Oh, guess what? It's authoritative from the chair of Peter for the entire Church on faith and morals. That's all that's needed to be guided by the charisma of Peter. If it's from the chair, if it's for the entire Church, if it's on faith and morals according to Vatican one, it cannot err. So even debating the status of Vatican ii, which obviously it's binding or else they wouldn't have excommunicated the sspx, even debating the status is kind of a deflection from the fact that in the Vatican 1 schema, if the pape the Pope is teaching on faith and morals from the chair of Peter for the entire Church, that's all that's needed for it to be protected from error via the Petrian charism. Well, John XXIII's opening speech says very clearly it's for the entire Church. It's faith and morals. It's binding. That's all that's needed. And so you can play Talmudic word games all you want.

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Well, I don't have to actually accept

[Main Speaker / Jay (Extended Monologue)]

it because the specific word, the latchet, was not used. It doesn't matter. Everyone knows Vatican II is binding. If it wasn't binding, then they wouldn't care if you went to the SSPX Mass. They wouldn't actually communicate these people. But the opening speech tells you it is moving on. And you'll have to translate this one because it's not in English. But Paul VI after Vatican II gave a talk and also affirms, of course it's binding. Of course it's magisterium. The entire world must accept Vatican 2. There's Paul VI saying it. Now. This is to refute the people who say Paul VI said it was a pastoral council. So he said it's not have new dogmas. Yeah, but not having new dogmas doesn't mean there's no dogmas. In fact, Vatican II says it's binding and even has statements on dogma. It just doesn't have new dogmas, supposedly. Of course it does have new dogmas, but it really doesn't matter because that's not the point. That really tells us nothing. Guess what? That's not all there is to it. Because I actually left out Pius XII's Casti Canubi and a shout out to John Petrello because he showed me this one many years later. This is Pius XII's encyclical on marriage and family. And this is relevant because there were people saying that, well, as Roman Catholics, there's actually many things amongst papal Roman teaching that we don't have to accept because they haven't been dogmatically declared in regard to married life. Do you think. What do you think Pius going to say about that? Notice the same arguments the Modernists are using is the same line of argumentation of the trads. I don't have to accept it unless there's a specific dogmatic statement explicitly in the terminology that I want used my way. If it's not that, I can believe whatever I want and do what I want. I'm a Protestant. No, in fact, paragraph 104 of Cassidy Canubi, Pius XII says right here. Excuse me, Pius 11, excuse me, can Catholic teachers trust their own private judgment and autonomy of reasoning if everyone bearing the name of Christian trust in his own mental powers and that he will only agree with the things of the Church that he thinks are dogmatic? No, he says that's a failure. He says if you are only doing that and you're not guided by the totality of the Roman teaching in all things on faith and morals, not just the things that are ex cathedra. He says that is a condemned position. Paragraph 104. And every one of these Roman Catholics, whether they're tradcats or whether they're the Pope, the ones that constantly critique the papacy, even within the Roman structure, they're violating these principles that you don't get to decide when you think it's right to critique the papacy. You don't get to decide when you think it's binding or not. Rome tells you when it's binding. Not you, not Marcel of ever, not Archbishop Tuke, Tuke the Kook, not in the set of conscious bishops. They don't tell you. Not the trailer park monks in the middle of nowhere. They don't decide what's magisterium. Rome decides until the end of the world that's the teaching of Vatican one. Now, beyond this, there's also another proof of this whole position being absurd. And shout out again to John Pontrello because the entire position of the SSPX and the set of a contest ends up being condemned in the teaching of Pius XII in his Is this a allocution? C. Delegus. C. Delegus is the canonization of Pius X. The Pope named after the Society of Saint. The Society is named after. Right. The SSPX is named after Pope Pius X who wrote many encyclicals against Modernism. Well, guess what? If you read C. Delegas when he's canonized by pius XII in 1954,

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[Main Speaker / Jay (Extended Monologue)]

the principles that condemn the old Catholics are the same principles that condemn both the SSPX and the set of a contest in one fell swoop here in C. Delegas because both positions rely on the argument, as we've been highlighting, that I'm only bound by the things that I decide are dogmatic. I'm not bound by the universal ordinary magisterium or the ordinary teaching. I'm bound by the extraordinary positions. Extraordinary magisterium. That's what's binding. And I will decide when the other things are binding that are not extra. No, no, you don't decide that. In fact, that's a condemned position. So this argumentation ends up condemning all three of these groups. It condemns the Tim Gordon position,

[Avery]

it

[Main Speaker / Jay (Extended Monologue)]

condemns the SSPX position, and it condemns the set of accounts position in one fell swoop because all of those positions, even though they don't have the same conclusions, the root line of argumentation is grounded in the idea that you're only bound by extraordinary magisterium and that has been condemned so many times, it's kind of retarded and it's kind of ludicrous that people continue to act like it's not. We've already seen five or six condemnations of that position. In fact, do you know Vatican II even says this? Vatican II in Lumen Gentium, I think it's around 20. I'm going from memory because it's around 23, 28. It's in the 20s, Vatican II and Lumigentium says just like all the things in Vatican 1 and in Denzinger that we already saw, you're also bound by the ordinary magisterium and not just the extraordinary. Now, many of the trads and people like that, they won't care because they. They choose like Protestants and like the old Catholics to say, I don't accept Vatican ii? Oh, you mean like how the old Catholics didn't accept Vatican one? Oh no, we're different.

[Jay]

How?

[Main Speaker / Jay (Extended Monologue)]

Well, we're not liberals. I didn't say you were liberals. How are you different in the line of argumentation of what you think you're bound by? Oh, it's the exact same you see. Exact same. Let's see if we can find the maybe it's 25. We're going to look for the. Yeah, it is LIM25. So amazingly Google knew exactly what I was looking for. Lumen Gen 25 which I know that the SSPX won't care, but notice how absurd this is. Here's an ecumenical council from the Roman Sea. Been taught and promulgated for 70 plus years. Around 70 years. They just got re excommunicated for not accepting it. They got told that if you want to come back into communion with the Roman see, you gotta accept Vatican too. They've been told this for decades. How absurd and stupid this position is. They are essentially Protestants. They're essentially old Catholics. They're essentially orthodox in this attitude of I'm going to decide actually Rome made an error here. Oh, thank you for admitting the orthodox were correct a thousand years ago. That's ultimately what we said.

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[Main Speaker / Jay (Extended Monologue)]

We were doing this a thousand years before you bro. Amongst the duties of bishops is the preaching of the Gospel. This im occupies an imminent place. Bishops are the preachers of the faith and the disciples of lead New disciples to Christ. They are authentic teachers. They are endowed with the authority of Christ to preach to the people committed to them by the light of the Holy Spirit. They bring forth the treasury of revelation, things new and old. They make it bear fruit, vigilantly warding off errors to the flock. Bishops teach in communion with the Roman Pontiff. Do you see this? So notice right away this rejects the idea of old Catholics schismatic Eastern Orthodox. According to the Roman Catholic position Orientals or the sspx to exercise jurisdiction you must be in communion with the holder of the keys because one of the elements of the keys is jurisdiction. And if you're not in Communion with the Roman see, you do not have jurisdiction. Thus the SSPX does not have jurisdiction, which is ludicrous in the Roman Catholic position. Is ludicrous. Now, Rome believes that the SSPX consecrations and sacraments and Mass are all valid, but they're illicit. So they're valid in Roman Catholic canon law. But because of their Sacramentology and belief in ex opera operato, they do believe that the masses and the sacraments are valid, just like the orthodox. We have valid Masses and sacraments and liturgies, but they're illicit, meaning that they're not according to papal canon law. So they're outside of papal canon law. They're illegal, but they're still valid. But in order to have jurisdiction in the Roman Catholic system, you must have communion with the Roman See. But notice the absurdity of this position right here because wait a minute. If I only have jurisdiction in communion with the Roman See, and I'm an SSPX bishop out of communion with the Roman sea and I've been excommunicated, but I can still offer the sacraments. But wait a minute. Having a bishopric means I operate with jurisdiction. I have the exercise of the celebration of the sacraments and I preach the gospel. That is what it means to have the keys and preach and to have the operation of the keys in Roman Catholic. So I'm just pointing out another level of contradiction with the Roman Catholic Sacramentology and system. Right? Which is because it's not the orthodox position. It doesn't make any sense to say, well, I have the sacrament and the grace but not jurisdiction. That makes no sense. How can it be valid? How can you have half of the keys? It doesn't make any sense. Well, I have 30% of the operation of the keys. Well, but to have it, you got to be in communion with Rome. So it, it doesn't make sense. But notice here again, the position is condemned in matters of faith and morals. The bishops speak in the name of Christ and the public must adhere with religious ascent even to their bishops. Most Roman Catholics absolutely openly reject their own bishops because so many of the bishops, especially in America or in Europe or in Germany or in Dutch countries, they're so liberal that if you're a Roman Catholic, you kind of already, if you actually believe the basics and you're not a butt buddy, you're already out of accord with your bishops and not believing what they teach on faith, in morals. Religious submission of mind and will must be shown in a special way to the magisterium, even when it's not ex cathedra. It must be shown in a way that his supreme Magisterium is acknowledged with reverence and the judgments made by him are adhered to his mind and his will must be accepted from the documents or from how he speaks about it. Although the bishops are not infallible when they speak and teach on faith and morals, they must be adhered to, even if it's not dogmatic. Do you see this? That's Lumen gentium 25, reaffirming all the stuff that I've been telling you over and over and over and over and over. And these hard headed mental gymnastics people living in a cult cannot figure this out because this undoes the entire system. So again, to recap, you don't have the right in Roman Catholic theology to reject the Pope's liturgical implementation. You don't have the right to reject Rome's disciplinary excommunications and decisions. You don't have the right to reject the Roman College's decision of who's elected a Pope even we have a whole other talk and article on that. You don't have the right to interpret canon law or to interpret what's magisterium or not according to your private opinions and beliefs. Aside of what Rome tells you, Any of the positions that you try to adopt, where you go in that direction, are condemned multiple times over and immediately turn into a form of Protestantism according to Rome. So you can either as a Roman Catholic, accept what Rome says or you don't. If you don't, you're in the same position as us. You're just pretending and playing a game, as if you're Roman Catholic and you support and love the papacy as the papacy excommunicates you and shuts down your traditional masses. And thus you are caught in a insane level of doublethink against yourself where you are trying to live out a contradiction. This is why so many of the Roman Catholics are still gay. They're not healed, they're still butt buddies. They think that this mechanical externalist religion and the religiosity can help them. They think that just saying the rosary forever is going to fix all this. They think it's the end of the world, so they fall into some kind of end times cult. None of those things are actually going to heal you or help you because they're all false. This is a system level defeater, because obviously the SSPX and the set of A consists are correct when it comes to the apostasy, the religious indifferentism, the rejection of a Christian state the contradictions of Vatican ii, the religious demonic, acceptance of pagans and Muslims as the same God and you can pray and worship with them together. That is all obviously apostasy. But the solution cannot be the papacy, which is the institution furthering the apostasy for 70 plus years, furthering the idea that Muslims can be saved as Muslims. I mean, Francis even said all the religions lead to God. It was a huge scandal. Pope Leo promulgates a skittles rainbow procession in Rome and excommunicates the trads. What does that tell you? Supposedly, according to the papal apologists and the car salesman, Rome will give you certainty. Rome will give us unity. Rome is the guide of faith and morals. The orthodox don't have any of this. Your tribes just got excommunicated. And so Leo goes on a crusade to excommunicate the trads, which is what we've been telling you guys for decades. I've been in this topic, in this game for, since 2003. 23 years I've done this topic and I've seen this stuff. An arrogant 17 year olds are going to correct me on Twitter. Yeah. Uhhuh. I bet the pap. The papacy excommunicates tradition but makes no crusade against countless gay bishops, countless skittles priests, callous butt buddies. Where is the excommunication of those people? You realize there's like many German bishops, archbishops, famous ones pushing the craziest Skittle stuff. Why were they not excommunicated? Hello. Leo supported a skittles procession in the Vatican. So do you understand all of your pop apologists sales pitches that only works on low information voters. Probably the lowest information, but probably the lowest information voters. The normie Roman Catholic believing all of this hobgoblin gibberish. Probably, probably gonna believe it.

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[Main Speaker / Jay (Extended Monologue)]

So they just, they learn all this yesterday, right? They're LARPing as Crusaders say. I did the same thing when I was 19. I get it. I know you think you're a crusader. You're 20. You're going to put up your pfp that you're a medieval. Yeah. And then Rome is doing butt buddy processions and excommunicating the people that are pushing and trying to maintain the Latin mass and the tradition. The reality is the Orthodox Church said a thousand years ago, Rome is evolving.

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[Main Speaker / Jay (Extended Monologue)]

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[Main Speaker / Jay (Extended Monologue)]

novelties and going off in an errant direction. And if you don't know about the 11th century and Gregory and Dictatus Pape, that's the best place to start. What does dictatus pape say? So in the Gregorian reforms, the very beginning of this idea that the Pope will, for example, decide all the bishops in the world, do you think that existed in the first thousand? Are you that ignorant? You don't know that for thousands 1000 years of Christianity, the Pope didn't decide all the bishops in the world, Dude.

[Spinquest Announcer]

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[Main Speaker / Jay (Extended Monologue)]

You can look at the apostolic cannons. You can look at the canons of the first seven councils. They state very clearly many times over that it takes two bishops or two bishops and a metropolitan, three bishops to elect or canonize a new bishop. There's nothing about the Bishop of Rome picking all the bishops in the world. So that alone is an innovation in the 11th century. When you look at Dictatus Pape, Gregory VII, the Bishop of Rome, decides all the bishops in the world. He is now above all the emperors. He is a world power. Everyone submits to him in the world. Do you understand? This is new and this is based on forgeries. This is why Rome has the position that it has in the second millennium. Do we need to ban somebody who's AI troll? You just ban the people that are. If they're spamming and stupid, saying stupid, just ban them, dude. So that is how we got to where we are. That's why there's so much just absolute nonsense in the Roman Catholic world is itself the revolution of the papacy. It's called the Gregorian revolution in the 11th century. That's what begins this period of immense ecclesiological changes in the structure of the Church to make the Vatican a world political power. It was not that prior to that, it did not have standing armies prior to that. The Vatican is the first reformation in the 11th century. And that Vatican Gregorian reform is what sets the stage for getting to where the papacy today is essentially a political geopolitical tool of Western oligarchical power. That's why the Vatican pushes all of the stuff at Vatican II that fits into the Western geopolitical structure and what they wanted. And I've done 100 hours plus podcast on that topic. We'll be doing more of it. I just read Vatican Spies. So this is the reality of this position. And we're going to look, I think, at one more document here. This is one more statement. And this is Denzinger, I think. Did we do this one or did we not do this one? Okay, we didn't look at this one yet. This is Denzinger 1830. Recourse to the Roman Pontiff as supreme Judge. Since the Roman Pontiff is at the head of the universal Church by divine right of absolute primacy, we teach and declare that he is the supreme judge in all cases pertaining to ecclesiastical examination he has that can be had his judgment. Moreover, the judgment of the apostolic sea, whose authority is not surpassed, is to be disclaimed by no one, nor is anyone permitted to pass judgment on its judgments. Therefore, they stray from the the path who affirmed that it is permitted to appeal from the judgments of the Roman pontiffs to a council or to any other higher authority. Even if you think it's the tradition of the past, the Roman See is the interpreter of tradition, not you. The authentic magisterium is interpreted by Rome, not you. So Denzinger 1830 is yet another statement refuting the Protestant modernist position of the traditionalists. Yes, you heard me correctly. So if you want this older talk and the references underneath it, I'll put it in the chat right here for you guys. Was Vatican II infallible? Are you bound by it? Of course you are. And again, the very actions excommunicating the SSPX proves I was right all along. You goblins and liars who have said everything about me. Just absolutely insane. Levels off the charts awful stuff attacked me nonstop for a decade. All you tried cats. Of course you have to accept Vatican 2. Will you admit that you were wrong? Will you accept Vatican 2? Or will you move in the direction what I've been trying to tell you for 10 years? It's Rome that is the problem. It's not a misinterpretation of the documents. It's not the liberals, it's not the liberal media. It's not just the Jews. Well, if Rome is protected by the Petrian charism, then how did a Jewish dude rewrite Nostratate and its doctrine of the Jews? You idiots. I don't have to accept it. Yes, you do. You have to accept all of it. You're lying to yourself. And this is why in the Roman Catholic world there are so many essentially people that are divided against themselves. I don't mean against other people in the Roman Catholic world, but against themselves. They are in a position of double mind like an Orwell, because they spend their time trying to convince people to come into this organization which hates the people, bringing the people into the organization. Rome hates the traditionalists. That's what I finally learned as a SSPX person. And I realized, why am I being a retarded? Trying to get people to submit to an entity that. An entity that hates me. This is insane. Why would Jesus expect me to enter an institution and bring my kids to an institution?

[Jay]

If you're.

[Main Speaker / Jay (Extended Monologue)]

I'm speaking in general here, that actually is a organized crime structure that hates me. It's insane. And that's why many of these people are also insane. They have mental problems. They become alcoholics. When I was in the drag cat world, I wouldn't say I was an alcoholic, but I would say that there's a possibility. But I knew a lot about. I knew people that just drank themselves to death in the room because it's a miserable life. You cannot be happy at peace living with this contradiction on a daily basis. Submit to Rome Pratts. Submit to Rome Orthodox and then Rome hates you and excommunicates you. You submit to Rome, you hypocrite.

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[Main Speaker / Jay (Extended Monologue)]

All right, so I want to remind you guys that I will be at debatecon8 in a couple weeks, July 25th in Dallas, Texas. You can get your tickets there and use that promo code to get a discount. I think you guys, if you want to come, you get $20 off if you use the promo code. 20 from Jay. 20 from Jay. Right there. 20 from Jay. And I will be debating two Muslims, one Muslim who turns out I forgot this guy actually called in, forget his name, Waleed, who is a Quran only Muslim who thinks that God has a physical body. So that's going to be a fun one. And then we will be debating Jake the Muslim metaphysician again on the topic of is Christianity or Islam better for society. So we got two feisty, heavy debates coming up. Me versus Jake. Me versus Waleed. Get your tickets for DEBATECON 8 in Dallas July 25 and 26. I think there's also like a, a VIP dinner. There's different options and packages that you can get if you want to get different ones. But there is the promo and then here is the link to get the tickets there. But if you do get tickets, be sure and use my promo code because it partly helps James at modern day debate figure out like who's actually selling tickets or whatnot. So there are of course many other debates at debateconate. I think that's the one with Andrew and d'. Souza. I can't remember exactly which one is. Let's see which one's which. Okay, so here's I was looking for. That's me and Jake. Let's see, Let's see if there is debate con 8. So debate con 8 is right there and it looks like it is. Me versus Walid as the pre game because that dude is super low tier. Looks like God logic is there. Debating Waleed. Inspiring philosophy will be Debating Jake. God logic Debating Hakikachu. Me debating Jake Dinesh d'. Souza. Debating Destiny. That's a weird one. And then Andrew debating Dinesh d'. Souza. Rachel versus Erudite. So that one's going to be a wild one. But if you want to get tickets, use the promo code here via J, whatever it was. 2020 from J. There's also going to be debate con 9 and 10. I he doesn't have the posters yet for 9 and 10, but right as of right now, as you guys know, probably nine looks like will be Orlando. I don't know what all the other debates will be at 9, but 9 will be me versus David Wood unless David Wood chickens out. Right. And then 10 will be either Phoenix or Dallas. Me versus Trent Horn. Two debates. So we should be at DEBATECON 8, 9 and 10 with some pretty hefty big name debates. The David Wood one's going to be huge. Trent Horn debates are going to be huge. So look for those in the coming months. Also I will be speaking at Ludwell this year. So you guys know we did a the Loudwell Conference last year in Virginia. Father Turbo spoke. Jim Jotra spoke. There were some older southern seersucker gentlemen that I was not familiar with that spoke. But this year it's Dr. David Bradshaw. So our good buddy, the eminent theologian and physicist and philosopher Dr. David Bradshaw. Absolutely necessary. Reading all of his works. Dr. Bradshaw will be speaking this year at Ludwell as Well, as some of these people I'm not familiar with, but they will be speaking. Michael Davis, I think he writes some of the geopolitical stuff. Buck Johnson will be there. I don't know who Abbott Mark Kerr is or father Terence Johnston. I'm not familiar with them. Dr. Daniel Cantony. Excuse me, Canty. I've heard of him, but I'm not familiar with him. Michael Davis. Ben Dixon of Orthodox Union, of Orthodox journalist. Body of ours will be there speaking as well. So that will be in Kentucky. So this one is a little bit different because Ludwell has in the past been in Virginia. This year we are. This is much easier for me to get to. This is Rough River Dam State park in Kentucky. And this is. The town is called Falls of Rough, Kentucky. I've never even heard of this town. Falls of Rough.

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[Avery]

Riddles mount up.

[Main Speaker / Jay (Extended Monologue)]

So you can get your tickets to [e-mail] Let me give you that. Well, where is the. Where's the page? Yeah, here it is. I should have put this in the show description because, I mean, we got so many events coming up. Dude, I got there. There's more than this. There's like all these other events too. So there's. So there's more events than I can even keep up with, dude. There's also the Florida Keys event with John Harris and perhaps Peugeot. I'm not. I can't remember Peugeot's going or not. But supposed to speak at that event as well. And I think December. Yes, I will be hosting Lord Voldemort here in an hour. I want to talk next about the unfortunate revelations about God logic.

[Avery]

So.

[Main Speaker / Jay (Extended Monologue)]

And again, we're not surprised here. Not trying to be mean, but I told you guys what was going on there all. So many people just reacted. Knee jerk reaction. Oh, Jay is so mean. He's so bad. I told you. I told you there was problems with God logic. You all just want to bitch about how. I mean, it's so annoying. It's so played out, dude. If you do want to get your tickets though to Ludwell, get them here. I'm sure this will be selling out pretty quick. The previous Ludwells all sold out. We had packed house of the last. It was about 200 people at the last Ludwell. So I don't even know how many there will be available at this one, but I'm sure it'll be packed out with Dr. Bradshaw, Ben Dixon, myself and these. These other people. So get your Ludwell tickets. That is September 12th in Kentucky. And yes, if you're wondering, every live event I bring books and do live books signing and book sales. That's one of the only reasons why it's at least from a job perspective beneficial to do like speaking events. Because many live events don't even pay money. So typically if they don't because then, and I'm not trying to be rude, but it's like a lot of people want you to do live events. They're oh, but we have any money. It's like, well, I mean if I'm gonna travel and do all this, like, I mean that's all on my own dime. So anyway, it usually helps out if I can sell books because then it can kind of at least pay for the. The books usually pay for the trip. Basically that's how it works. So a lot of these live events, they don't even pay. So if you guys would like to come on out and support these events, then get the tickets and do so there. So there's that. And let's see what else is going on. I don't know if John Harris has tickets for the event in the Florida Keys, which I think is around. I want to say it's around the December or something. But if you're interested in going to the Florida Keys, this will probably be a little bit more expensive. For many people the keys kind of expensive to get there. If you're a person of means, if you have money and you are interested in going to the Florida Keys event, you can reach out to John here says father hears his brother John. That's his X profile. You can reach out to him. Just say hey, I'm interested in going to the Florida Keys event. I don't remember the exact date. You can ask him some sometime later this year and you'll have to ask him if for sure Pageau's coming. I don't remember exactly who all is coming to it. I know his name was mentioned so there's that. Oh, I have had no luck lately. Wait lady.

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[Main Speaker / Jay (Extended Monologue)]

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[Main Speaker / Jay (Extended Monologue)]

Okay, now God Logic again I don't hate God Logic. I'm not mad at God Lodge, I'm not jealous of God Logic. I'm. Everything's going, I'm going, I'm doing fine. I don't need to attack God Logic for views and clicks. I just want to. On. This is arguably, by the way, the biggest podcast in the world, right? It's. It's hard to determine between the top two. Or you got Rogan, you got Tucker. Okay? I went on the biggest podcast in the world, and we did over two hours. Crazy talk. Okay? So whether you think it's Rogan or whether you think it's Tucker, they're both kind of tied for the biggest podcast in the world. For the actual full show, probably Rogan has more listeners for that, for the show itself, for the whole show. But when you factor in Tucker and the clips, Tucker is around the same. But even some of those clips go more viral than the average sort of Rogan guest. So you guys can now debate whether you think I went on Tucker or whether you think I went on Rogan. Either way, it's pretty much the biggest podcast in the world right now in media, and I don't need God Logic to get on the biggest podcast in the world or to get that tier of conversation and have that. So, no, I, I was. This was planned. Had nothing to do with God. So you just attack God Logic because you just know God Logic had nothing to do with me going on any of that. I'm about to host gigantic show here an hour. Nothing to do with God Logic. But we do need to talk about God Logic because the reasons that we've called this out and that we criticize this is not because of jealousy. I know other people just think that all. The only motivation you could possibly have is your jaws of people. No, I've been trying to tell you that there's some serious problems with God Logic's presentation of Churchill's apologetics and the idea that it doesn't matter where you go to church. You can go to the Messianic synagogue, you can go to Joel Osteen's church even, because, I mean, there is no delineator between what you can. They just say, well, the ones that teach the Bible, every sect claims to teach the Bible. That's not helpful at all. Just. Well, just go to the ones that teach the Bible. I mean, Mormons say they teach the Bible. Joel Osteen says he teaches the Bible. Jim Jones said he taught the Bible. Well, they got it. Faithfully teach the Bible. Okay, what is that? Trinity and Incarnation? Okay, is that the Orthodox Trinity or the Latin Trinity. What doesn't matter? Says who? Who are you to decide what doesn't doesn't matter? Well, we're not exclusivist. No, but you actually are exclusivist because you exclude the orthodox because they're exclusivist. But you say you're not exclusivist as you exclude orthodox. That's retarded. And like, this has nothing to do with whether you think God Logic is nice. I don't have any personal problems with God logic in terms of, like, interactions. We had a great time, We've done podcasts together. But if I call him out to say, look man, you got to have a church. You can't just send people to any old place. And you can't do that because you want a wide market share. That's the grift to give up truth for the sake of a wide market share. Just like Ruslan did. Right? They even say that's the reason why they don't want to be exclusivist in their ecclesiology or their Christianity. Yeah, that's the mega church model from Peter Drucker. He said, don't be exclusivist because that cuts out the market share. That's the grift. Not, do you make money on Internet? Do you make. Do you get super chats? Anybody making money is a grifter. That's not what a grifter is. A grifter is a person who puts that first. Well, it turns out we now know what church God logic goes to, or at least has tended to go to. Maybe he attends some other church on the side, but he also recently still promotes his dad's crazy cult. His dad is an insane deliverance ministry, Pentecostal, tied into the Tyler Perry Grift network. Now do you guys remember. And we'll show this here in a second from Cleave's stream. Do you guys remember the preacher that went viral? The black preacher that went viral saying, I told you to give me $2,000.

[Avery]

You gave me a $1,200 get out my face.

[Main Speaker / Jay (Extended Monologue)]

Right, the guy that rebuked that woman cuz she only gave 1200 and not 2000 to these disgusting fake black bishop churches. Okay, we're talking literal Bishop Tilda Swinton stuff, all right? The guy I made fun of on Pierce Morgan that Trent Horn had to virtue signal about. How dare Jay make fun of this man? Well, he's a grifting fake. He's not a bishop. Dude, even in your own church's teaching is a fake. That's an opportunist, race hustler, fake ass black activist bishop. Who's not a bishop? Well guess what, that's God Logic's dad, dude. Not Bishop Tilda Swinton. But he does the same thing. So I'm going to show you God Logic doing charismatic interpretive dance as worship at Bishop daddy God Logics church. Okay.

[Avery]

Woo. God Logic doing it girl.

[Main Speaker / Jay (Extended Monologue)]

He doing it.

[Avery]

Go boy.

[Main Speaker / Jay (Extended Monologue)]

He got white glove like Michael Jackson.

[Avery]

Damn boy, get on that.

[Main Speaker / Jay (Extended Monologue)]

He getting up on the pews. He walking on the pew. He feeling it. He feeling some type of way right now. God l feeling some type of way. I feeling some type of way right now. I'm about to start PR right now.

[Avery]

I'm going to give a sermon right now. I'm got laundry.

[Main Speaker / Jay (Extended Monologue)]

We got la.

[Avery]

Oh mama. Had a steamy love affair. Well, everything clear Obama.

[Main Speaker / Jay (Extended Monologue)]

That's Henry Manning.

[Avery]

God Logic had a steamy affair with Michael Jackson. O'Dill heaven. Go girl.

[Main Speaker / Jay (Extended Monologue)]

Damn, that boy got some moves right now listen, when I go to DebateCon, when I go to DebateCon, I'm. I'm gonna bust up some moves up. I'm gonna out dance Avery. Y' all think Avery could dance? Wait till I show up with my white gloves, son. Wait till an actual bipoc person challenges that man to a a dance off. Now turns out this is Avery's dad. An insane deliverance ministry tongue talking Bishop of the Bishop Church.

[Avery]

Made up church.

[Main Speaker / Jay (Extended Monologue)]

Bishop of Ava Red Church. I'm the first hierophant Bishop of made up black church right here.

[Avery]

Let me, let me bring pops. Let's, let's bring pops in the work. In the name of Jesus. My name is everything. Give me the money right now. Put it in. There is a healing for you in intimate places. I want to touch you right now in intimate places. But God told me to tell you today. He ain't gonna even wait till tomorrow. You about to get delivered right now. Now at the count of three, when I tell you three, I want you to let her go.

[Main Speaker / Jay (Extended Monologue)]

He's not even in the frame of the video.

[Avery]

Preacher, we need you on screen. One, two, three. Let her go. God said you've been free. Somebody help her. You've been free. Somebody help. And I am available.

[Main Speaker / Jay (Extended Monologue)]

Damn, he just slapping. Damn Bishop. God Logic out here, just slapping.

[Lady Luck]

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[Main Speaker / Jay (Extended Monologue)]

He doing that pimp exorcism.

[Avery]

I got a pimp exorcism now. I'm gonna slap the out of you now, bitch. Get over here now. I gotta exercise now. He don't punch that in the gut right now. Get over here right now. Somebody help me. I'm about to punch in the gut because he's gonna breathe only you. He punched her in the gut.

[Main Speaker / Jay (Extended Monologue)]

What the hell?

[Avery]

She got a demon in her coochie now. She got a demon in a private part. I'm about to punch a vaji now. Somebody help her. And I am a razor.

[Main Speaker / Jay (Extended Monologue)]

No, he didn't punch. He did a thump knuckle.

[Avery]

I'm about to thump a bitch now. I'm about to thump up his womb right now. I'm about to play thumb knuckles on that little baby right now. Because he's gonna breathe on you. A fresh breath, a fresh wind. Shock the labikyoku. I done stonk this mother up. I'm about to wave this shit on you. I done stunk it up right now. And y' all let me blow a little bit of this pooed on you. Breathe on you a fresh breath, Dude.

[Main Speaker / Jay (Extended Monologue)]

God logic comes from a family of grifters, dude. And he promotes his own dad's church dummies. That's why he don't want to say nothing because he promotes his daddy at church, dude. His dad at fake bishop fart church.

[Avery]

Let me blow this poodle on you,

[Main Speaker / Jay (Extended Monologue)]

Damn, son. This fire.

[Avery]

Damn, son. Where'd you find this. Damn son. Where'd you find this trapaholic fartaholic? Damn, son, where'd you find this smell? Damn, son, where'd you fart that. Mighty long way? I dare you to lose yourself. Oh, I don't see nobody turning here. I don't see nobody turning here. I don't see see nobody turn D

[Main Speaker / Jay (Extended Monologue)]

this is just like the white dude who was remember Little John, the white preacher doing Little John. And the chick that said she. This is deliverance ministry. True about it's the same stuff. So basically, God logic is in the Nala Ray sphere. He's in the sphere promoting his daddy. A church. His daddy, a fake fart church.

[Avery]

Let me wipe this on you. Let me blow this toot on you.

[Main Speaker / Jay (Extended Monologue)]

This is what I'm bad for, calling out this nonsense here.

[Avery]

Gifted, but I need some things straightened out. Now I've been speaking in tongues, but I need some stuff. I'm getting two for one summer pregnant. Ain't that right,

[Main Speaker / Jay (Extended Monologue)]

dude? This is God Logic's church. This is where God Logic go to church. His daddy is over there ripping egg farts. Just wafting it all over the congregation. They over there doing Michael Jacko break dancing. Don't even look good.

[Avery]

So someone's getting baptized and on an unborn baby getting baptized with a. Come on now, I'm taking it out your hands. It don't belong to you no more. It's the Lord. Now come on church. You.

[Main Speaker / Jay (Extended Monologue)]

You notice when he gets up on the pew, they got to have somebody holding him. Cuz he might get take. He might get took over and he might just. Just fall off, just flop over, break a neck or something. You know what I'm saying? They got to have. They got to have a holy holder, a holy place. Look, you gonna be my holy placeholder. Grab onto my bell right now.

[Avery]

This what you've been waiting. No, you've been waiting on this. God told me to tell you ain't by yourself. Hey, that's right. Take care. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah, yeah, yeah. Hallelujah in the name.

[Main Speaker / Jay (Extended Monologue)]

Oh, he wiping that girl down.

[Avery]

Just wipe her down.

[Main Speaker / Jay (Extended Monologue)]

Just wipe that grandma down. I gotta wipe a grandma heaven now and then.

[Avery]

I gotta wipe a grandma down.

[Main Speaker / Jay (Extended Monologue)]

Put a little bit of sheen and shine on that grandma like she was

[Avery]

a car wash. How dare you call this out. All of this is from Jesus. How dare you say a bad thing about God. Lies and you so mean. Come on,

[Main Speaker / Jay (Extended Monologue)]

It's a damn choo choo train up in that church right now.

[Lady Luck]

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[Main Speaker / Jay (Extended Monologue)]

Come on, ride a train and ride it oh oh. Come on, ride a train, ride it. Come on, ride a straight and write it. This ain't Thomas the choo choo train.

[Avery]

This is a God train I got

[Main Speaker / Jay (Extended Monologue)]

a little bit of God logic right now.

[Avery]

While she's singing, I need you to start turning slowly.

[Main Speaker / Jay (Extended Monologue)]

Every time I turn around, this preacher be looking at my booty. That's why I wear this tight green dress, so the preacher could see my thick triple C thighs. I want this preacher so bad. He looking at me right now like I'm fool. He want to eat me up right now.

[Spinquest Promo Voice]

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[Main Speaker / Jay (Extended Monologue)]

Remember this is what the white Little John preacher did. The same thing. The deliverance ministry is off the hook. Man, that's just crazy. Remember that white preacher was saying, miss, turn around in the circles?

[Avery]

Yeah. What? What? Yeah.

[Main Speaker / Jay (Extended Monologue)]

Let me see from behind what Yale we saw. I'm not joking. There was a white preacher doing deliverance ministry. It's the exact same thing. And then the preacher's like, let me see you turn around. Why don't you dance on that pole?

[Avery]

Get up on that pole. From the windows to the walls so you like a song shaker Shake it like a salsa Shake it like a salsa Shake it like a salsa Unwind that thing that's been have you so wind it up every time I turn around Favor is on your life but it don't look like it Shake it like a sa Let me see that booty, girl. Shake it like a sa. Every time I tell you you got your big mama's mantle and the devil been trying to shake your faith but you came to the right one today. He's unwinding it, he's unwinding it. And he's breathing on you every time I turn around. Damn, I afford it. Let me blow that on your face. Limit of on your face right now. Shake it like a.

[Main Speaker / Jay (Extended Monologue)]

Okay, it's enough of that. There's another one, though. Let me see.

[Avery]

I is delivered.

[Main Speaker / Jay (Extended Monologue)]

Yes, sir.

[Avery]

Turn around and tell those people. Tell them I'm not gay no more. I ain't gay. I am no love. I don't like men's no more.

[Main Speaker / Jay (Extended Monologue)]

I don't like men's no more.

[Avery]

I don't like men no more. I said I like women, women, women, women I like women. I like the booty. I like women so much. I like the booty, baby.

[Main Speaker / Jay (Extended Monologue)]

Dude, this is what people are saying.

[Avery]

Oh, I'm.

[Main Speaker / Jay (Extended Monologue)]

I'm so mean for making fun of it so me.

[Avery]

I can't believe you so me.

[Main Speaker / Jay (Extended Monologue)]

Okay, but I'm still not. Oh, here's another. Here's another. Dude, Avery. Avery going buck wild again. Look at this

[Avery]

sugar like a sauce I gave her.

[Main Speaker / Jay (Extended Monologue)]

Dude, it ain't even good. Dancing a black dude like myself can dance way better than this. He just looked like he's spazzing out. He collapsed. Get up, dude.

[Avery]

Get up. From the windows to the. Wow, He crawling. I want to see you crawl down the aisle like a little bitty ant on your booty crawling on that aisle. Avery, baby,

[Main Speaker / Jay (Extended Monologue)]

What is with the freezing? Like, he's in, like a microphone. Avery looks like every like 10 year old black kid trying to be like Michael Jackson. That's. That's all.

[Avery]

That's all it is.

[Main Speaker / Jay (Extended Monologue)]

The whole.

[Avery]

His whole.

[Main Speaker / Jay (Extended Monologue)]

That's the whole secret. We don't figure that out, dude. All of his life, he wanted to be Jacko. And he said, I'm gonna use church to propel myself like Tyler Perry to

[Avery]

become Medea, to do my little Jacko routine. Help me now.

[Main Speaker / Jay (Extended Monologue)]

Don't you dare call me a grift.

[Avery]

Sa.

[Main Speaker / Jay (Extended Monologue)]

Black bishops, black players. We got to go to Cleave's clip here. You didn't miss anything. I was just trying to find this. This Cleave clip. So the. The. The church. Okay. By the way, here's Avery talking about Christian Zionism, exactly as we said. Don't call the church Israel. No, no, no, I don't call the church Israel, bro. Okay, now here is Avery promoting his dad's church.

[Jay]

One second. I don't know why it's giving me a hard time now. Why does it give me a hard time to pull this stuff.

[Main Speaker / Jay (Extended Monologue)]

To save the watch later? There you go.

[Jay]

All right, so here you got God Logic here. God Logic here at Bishop Avery Austin Total Deliverance Ministries. Given like a little.

[Main Speaker / Jay (Extended Monologue)]

Here he is promoting his dad's fake ass grift crazy church. So don't try to. He don't promote his dad's church, though. He's his own man. No, he promotes his dad's church.

[Jay]

Goofus, a little intro message here.

[Avery]

First of all, let's just thank everyone for tuning in on another virtual worship experience with Total Deliverance. My name is Avery Jr. And we're excited to have all of you here today. Tuning in on a Sunday, expecting something great from God. God's gonna do something great for you, Ex.

[Main Speaker / Jay (Extended Monologue)]

How does he know that? Why is he pushing all this Deliverance stuff? So don't try to come with me with your. That he don't promote it. Why are you going after Avery? Cause you jealous because he pushes all this?

[Avery]

Dude, Expect this message to hit home, to hit you in your hearts and hit you in your minds. Hit you wherever it needs to hit you. Matter of fact, let's go before the throne of Grace. Right?

[Main Speaker / Jay (Extended Monologue)]

Father God, we think performative public praying at his dad's fake ass church. And here's the thing. His dad who used to be on TBN by the way, huge fake ass giveaway right there.

[Avery]

Duh.

[Main Speaker / Jay (Extended Monologue)]

Okay, righteous gemstone wannabe. This is a righteous. This is a ghetto gemstones. The ghetto gemstones.

[Avery]

Here's his dad to get off today. I don't care. Everything up to this point does not matter. Who am I talking to here? Get ready for a do over in JB Phillips Translation of the New Testament. You want a blessed factor now, dude, give me a place to stay. Y' all ain't saying that here. God's job is why I'm giving him the praise.

[Jay]

To make sure just so you have an I.

[Main Speaker / Jay (Extended Monologue)]

And here he is on tvN.

[Jay]

The it's not just some random dude.

[Avery]

So I take the drugs and I stick them in my waist, okay? And we in Arkansas around Martha. I said Alabama for the man.

[Main Speaker / Jay (Extended Monologue)]

So now here is the guy that went viral. Everybody saw where he was telling people, you better give me $2,000.

[Avery]

Give me $2,000. How dare you give me 1200. Get out my face.

[Main Speaker / Jay (Extended Monologue)]

And it went viral. That is a Tyler Perry denominator. It's like money from Tyler Perry goes into that. So it's Tyler Perry adjacent. Fake ass made up bishops and denominations and all these black dudes love. I'm a bishop of the fourteenth order of the Tribe of the Bloods. Like they love all these titles like Pharisees, you know, I'm not saying bishop itself is a evil title, but I'm saying they look, I am a bishop. TD Jakes of the Oneness Holiness Pentecostal. I'm gonna sleep with all the white's church.

[Avery]

David, please stand.

[Jay]

All right, so we get. We get this Bishop Winan guys up here again. Total Deliverance Church. This guy is over over this church. You heard it right at the beginning.

[Main Speaker / Jay (Extended Monologue)]

This is Avery's church. This is dad's church. They push it.

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[Jay]

That's our great leader, the Perfecting Fellowship. Okay, their leader here, this guy right here. Now listen to just a brief segment from his sermon. I'm going to explain exactly who this guy is and why this.

[Main Speaker / Jay (Extended Monologue)]

Remember when we told you these guys are. These people were grifters and all of y'.

[Avery]

All.

[Main Speaker / Jay (Extended Monologue)]

Thousands of people.

[Avery]

Huge piece of. You're so jealous. You're so evil. Oh.

[Main Speaker / Jay (Extended Monologue)]

Turns out, oh, I was right again. For the thousandth time, this is significant.

[Avery]

Ain't nobody mad. Cause you got curves, girl.

[Main Speaker / Jay (Extended Monologue)]

In fact, I'm happy you got curves.

[Avery]

Shake it like a song circle. This is the house. That came to Jesus and said, jesus, how shall we pray? He said, when you pray, you shall say, our father child in heaven, hallow would be thy name. That's the reason I don't let folk use the name of Jesus around me. Just say Jesus. Cuss and say Jesus. Talk about G. Just say, oh, Christ. No, no, no.

[Main Speaker / Jay (Extended Monologue)]

So Avery has positioned himself to not just be an e. Deliverance. Well, E debater, I should say. But my guess would be that it's also a way to kind of get up in the Tyler Perry network of black churches. For those that don't know, the reason that Tyler Perry was successful, the reason he got so famous was precisely because his whole routine before he was mega famous was just performing in black churches. So he would do his characters in black churches, and it got so popular that eventually he went. He went full Hollywood. Right? So this guy right here is buddies with Tyler Perry. This guy who. This is the preacher who went viral.

[Avery]

Because you gave me twelve hundred dollars, I said, give me two thousand. Get out of my face.

[Main Speaker / Jay (Extended Monologue)]

Right? Remember this? It went viral. Tyler Perry then gave this dude a hundred thousand dollars for his church. Because these are all Tyler Perry adjacent ministries that become means for these types of black grifter, fake preachers, fake bishops to get paid.

[Avery]

Dude.

[Main Speaker / Jay (Extended Monologue)]

That's what it is. It's a grift, obviously,

[Avery]

because you should make that.

[Main Speaker / Jay (Extended Monologue)]

This is why Avery won't say what the church, what the church is, or tell people to go to an orthodox church, because it would mean in his mind, that's going to piss daddy off. And by the way, I got a pretty sweet deal. I might be able to rise up in daddy's church, and I'm gonna be the next Tyler Perry.

[Jay]

All right, so you've got this Bishop Winans guy. All right, so this guy's actually pretty famous. He was recently in the news, but he's very famous for the show Tyler Perry's House of Pain. He was a regular. He made regular appearances in Tyler Perry's TV show. House of Pain. This.

[Main Speaker / Jay (Extended Monologue)]

See what I'm saying?

[Jay]

This is him from one episode here. I'll play a little. So you get the point, by the way.

[Main Speaker / Jay (Extended Monologue)]

I'm not trying to say. Well, you're saying that they're bad if they have a famous connect. No, we just met a bunch of famous people. I'm not. I'm not what I'm saying. I'm saying if the ministry is churchless, grift apologetics to have the broadest reach and the. The least amount of dogma and exclusivism. And then Avery takes the orthodox trinitarian doctrine, which you can't take the orthodox doctrine. I have the rest of the orthodox teaching in church. It's just ridiculous. That's the grift. If Avery decides and mans up and says, you know what? I gotta have a church. I can't just tell people to be whatever they want. There's no such thing in the history of the church. The first thousand years, maybe Even the first 1500 years of a churchless apologist. Even the Protestant reformers had a specific church. They would point people to go to the Lutheran church, go to the Calvinist church. There is no such thing as a churchless apologist. It's so insane. It's such an Americanized, abstracted grift. Grifting is not making money. Grifting is when you're a con man or money is the only thing you care about. That's grifting. Not making money online, not having a business. Not super chats. This is so stupid.

[Jay]

So he's. He's very famous. Very famous pastor from Tyler Perry's House of Pain. This guy actually has a lot of different connections with Tyler Perry. Now notice this was the guy that God Logic's dad was saying, look, this guy is our leader. He is the leader of this fellowship that we are a part of. Listen, play this again.

[Avery]

He's our leader. He is Marvin L. Winans of the Perfecting Church.

[Main Speaker / Jay (Extended Monologue)]

They said he's the most holy bishop in the world. You can't make this up. That's what. That's what this guy said. This is Avery's dad's church right here.

[Jay]

Bishop, our great bishop, our leader. We're a part of this Perfecting Fellowship group. Now, why is this significant? Well, it draws some connections, some pretty major connections with this organization that God Logic's father is a part of. He's not just some random charismatic pastor. He's a charismatic pastor with pastors that are affiliated with Tyler Perry, as well as several mega church Groups, we're talking serious money here. Now, he was associated with this scandal. This was pastor Marvin Winans. Got upset at a church member for only donating a thousand two hundred dollars when he asked for two.

[Main Speaker / Jay (Extended Monologue)]

And this is the clip you guys probably saw that went viral.

[Jay]

Thousand. So they do the prosperity gospel thing. They say, I have. I have commanded you to give me $2,000. Well, what he said was, I commanded you to give me a thousand plus one. So people were confused. And then he started rebuking people in the middle of the church. But this was the leader of their church group that they were a part of.

[Avery]

I, Roberta McCoy, giving faith and stand in unity with the vision of perfecting church, of sowing this seed of a $thousand dollars plus $235 and receiving the blessings to come to all that participated.

[Lady Luck]

Now that.

[Avery]

That's only twelve hundred dollars. Yes. Y' all not listening to what I'm saying. If you have a thousand plus a thousand, okay, I'm gonna work on the other 800. Well, that ain't what I asked you to do.

[Jay]

So he publicly rebukes this lady. You only gave me $1,200. You were supposed to give me $2,000.

[Avery]

Close the doors. Lock them in. Close the doors.

[Main Speaker / Jay (Extended Monologue)]

You ain't leaving this congregation until I see $40,000.

[Lady Luck]

Hey, everybody, lady luck here. And we're celebrating America's 250th birthday. Now, all summer long, I'm going to be celebrating by playing on finquest.com which is an American owned social casino. It obviously features over a thousand slot games. Games and live blackjack, live craps, live bubble craps. Head on over to spinquest.com. get yourself a 30 coin pack for just 10 bucks.

[Spinquest Announcer]

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[Main Speaker / Jay (Extended Monologue)]

All right, let's hit these super chats, guys. Go right on over to X. I will be hosting the Lord Voldemort show. Let's read these super chats. You're the main machine. Thank you for $10. 10, Josh, $10. Thank you, God Logic's dad's sermons. I'm now a deeply closed and skittled man. I am delivered. Josh says again, thank you, God Logic's dad. You made me a skittles man. I'm delivered open bottles. $3. Amazing entertainment. But actually, this is all sick. God Logic's just some rich kid with a con man dad. It also means that it comes natural to him to scam people. It's sick. I don't read. $1. Super chats. Deal dumpling. $20. I'm never tired of you and Jamie's content. You guys are the best. Thank you. Thank you for reading all these comments you got. I'm gonna send you guys in the audience. You guys are the best. Appreciate that. Thank you for reading through these. I'm re wiring my art bell.

[Spinquest Announcer]

Wine mom.

[Main Speaker / Jay (Extended Monologue)]

Conspiracy brain. I was actually retarded. That's okay. We all have periods of being retorted. Anonymous $10. Thank you for your work. Jay was baptized in October. I live in Germany. I was in a Croatian Catholic parish. They were actually trying to be traditional but you could see that everybody was getting upset because Germans were turning into crazy magicori devotees. Yeah, all the that stuff's just crazy Ericota. $10. Did you see the trailer for the new Robert Eggers movie Werewolf? I haven't watched it yet. I hope that you and Pageau cover it. Looks up your alley. I'm supposed to do a go on Page's channel pretty soon, so I don't know if it'll be before or after that movie comes out. Is the Roman Catholic teaching about the social kingship of Christ versus the Vatican to religious liberty a system defeater? Yes. And I will be debating Trent Horn on that sound wave. $10. How does the SSPX think that they can consecrate bishops without the other bishops present? They argue in extremists. Right. So the in extremist position is probably how they would do it. How do they do it without papal approval? In extremists an emergency situation. They're actually just Protestants. Nicaea says that bishop should be consecrated in the conclave of the local bishops. Yeah, exactly. Corey, $7. Unfortunately, the symbol of the keys Vatican flag is representing the lack of Christian freedom in Roman Catholicism. Thank you to God and his holy name. When is the era of Wigsantium coming? YG says the air is right here. I don't know what you're talking about. You mean my kids? Well, keep praying for that aqua note. $30. You are the strongest soldier. I don't know about that, but appreciate your compliment. Lucas. $10. My Protestant anti organized religion dad doesn't want me to be a Roman Catholic. We talked about soul Scriptura. He thinks I'm going to hell. Is there a way to answer that question without a crash? Out. Well, I don't want you to be confirmed a Roman Catholic. You need to become orthodox. So before trying to debate your dad, you need to figure out whether Orthodoxy is a better fit than Roman Catholicism. Which it obviously is. Matt says, for dollars. I'm not a Christian, I'm not Catholic, I'm not Protestant. I just love Jesus. Yeah, but Jesus set up a church and the Bible many times over says, submit to the elders, submit to the bishops, and do not forsake the assembling together. So you can't just be lone gunner for Jesus. Bird, $10. Before Cleave did this research, you were able to discern automatically that Avery was a grifter. How did you know this? Well, because I've already interacted with Avery for two years. And when a person doesn't want to admit that they have a church, it means there's some other commitment, right? Money, family, whatever that's keeping them from admitting that it doesn't make sense to say that. Well, just believe in Jesus. Doesn't matter what church you go to. Oh, it's just total nonsense. People were out here saying that you were mean and they kept defending Avery. Did you just use your discernment? Yeah, I've also been doing this for a long time, so it's. It's kind of easy to spot when there's significant problems. Low tier. $10. I listen to your videos at on a 70 kilometer bike ride. It's actually very informative. Cool, dude. D. Ross says, well, for $2. Appreciate that. That's a really long question, but Rio, you're my favorite black theologian. Thank you, Green. I assume that UK and Australia's social decline is due to government incompetence. No, it's a long term strategy. When I listen to your Miller Fabian stuff, I understand that. Good. Jimmy Bob, what do you think about Carl Jung and orthodox or Jungian psychology? I've got many videos critiquing that so you can find those. We actually did long podcasts on Jordan Peterson and Carl Jung and those are really valuable, so check those out. Jamie Johnson, $20. When people say that they do DMT and they talk to different or they go into different dimensions, how would you interpret that? I mean, I think you do enter the spiritual world. I don't know if that means there's other. Other worlds in the sense of like multi verse or anything like that. But I mean you are seeing like the noetic realm or the, you know, mental realm, spiritual realm. The orthodoxy. Reality is only one dimension. No, I think there's other. Other spiritual worlds, absolutely, but not multiverse. His goat, $5. Did you address Vatican II, do you think Pedro Bartholomew? Yeah, I think he's as bad as. He's just the same as Vatican too. Gordon Rome has actually asked SSPX to sign the formula of adherence. It asked them to affirm Vatican 1. It doesn't ask them to commit to Vatican 2. You guys are such mental gymnasts. You have to submit to Vatican ii. Obviously, if you are in communion with the Bishop of Rome, you're approving of Vatican ii. Did you not listen to anything I argued about? Ordinary Magisterium for freaking one hour straight. You guys are like children. Man Chronicles. Five dollars. According to the Vatican, SSPX is bad, but gay marriages are good. Praying with Muslims is good. Exactly. This should tell everybody right there. It's the Vatican is apostate. It's not the True Church. Johnny, $10. Jay, I have some advice. After I discovered all this truth about the Vatican, a lot of what I learned on your channel, I'm struggling with the spiritual. That's why you need to become Orthodox. I went through the same struggles. Kels, $5. Thank you for your knowledge. This is also really hilarious dream. I want to be Orthodox. Making a choice soon. Good. Rachel Wilson, $5. Thank you, Paisios. $10. Jay, thank you for the wealth of knowledge. Blessings. This has aided me and my family becoming Orthodox. We are praying for you guys. Would you please pray for us, Paisios? Elizabeth, Methodius, Cyril, Favronia, Lazarus, Edward and Olga. Dang, that's a big family.

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[Main Speaker / Jay (Extended Monologue)]

You guys got a big old pack over there. Welcome to the new members. See some members in the chat. Faith says for $5. Hello, comrades. We should make America Orthodox. That will show the Americans exactly. If we're gonna USSR up this contemporary. What's up, metal head? Metal hermit. $10. This is for. This is for the motherland. This is for Mother ussr. How long? That's for David Wood. How long? Gate hall, Long Nate. $5 for the rave library that you inhabit. Thank you, Travis. $50. What's up, dude? Or trav8812, man. Thank you so much. That's a huge super chat. This dude over here, keeping the lights on, paying the bills, boy. John says for $5, can I put my meme of Rihanna with the crown. I wish I could. She a slay queen. Well, that's. That's my meme, dude. That's not actually Rihanna in that meme. That's me in that picture. Y' all didn't know that? Oh, you all thought it was Rihanna. You just buy everything you see.

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[Main Speaker / Jay (Extended Monologue)]

That's me. Cameron, $5 a day. We gotta grip a trilemma when we grip this cash. Exactly, son. Aqua Note. What's up. Welcome to the new members. Tuxedo. What's up, green soldier? $10 a day. I can't take it anymore. You're vindicated too much. Please stop getting vindicated. What can I say? Dude? Francois, Tim Gordon turned on the sspx. He made an emergency post. Tim's trying to get in on the algorithm. Dude, I don't know why he think. Why is this an emergency? The SSPX were excommunicated in 1988. This is 1988 all over again. What's the emergency fixed? Do you know about Bernard Fay? I've heard of him. Yeah. He was an anti masonic guy in France. He had a big hand in helping the sspx. He also protected lesbian Middle Eastern people. I do know about him.

[Avery]

Yeah.

[Main Speaker / Jay (Extended Monologue)]

In fact, I think he's connected to the corporate people that have these very suspicious roles in the baggarly SSPX that I mentioned in the beginning. By the way, if you're looking for a book that discusses that, it's the chapter in Craig Heimbichner's book, Blood on the Altar. There's a chapter on the SSPX because there's an overlap between French Oto Crowley people and people in the sphere of the sspx. I'm not saying the SSPX is crowly, and I'm just saying that with some of these very wealthy elites in France, there's overlap with Croweanism. J Mel, $10. What's the best talk on Gnosticism? Just type in JDR. Gnosticism. There's three. Three different ones. They're all good. Two or three. All right, we're almost done here. We got to get over to Lord Voldemort. Hey, Jamie, I gotta do Lord Voldemort. Could you make me a couple espressos?

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[Main Speaker / Jay (Extended Monologue)]

Christopher, $20. This is my first super chat.

[Spinquest Promo Voice]

Jay.

[Main Speaker / Jay (Extended Monologue)]

I want to say hello. Hello, Jay. You got solid content. Keep it up. I've learned a lot about Catholic dogma. This has helped me pursue a course towards orthodoxy. That's great, Christopher. Everybody play For Christopher Herrera, it sounds like he. A lot of. Maybe more people are going to be interested in Orthodoxy via SSPX after this. But I mean, in my mind it's like this is, this is not really any different than, I mean, the same thing happened in 1988. So it's like. But maybe a lot of people don't know. The SSPX was excommunicated for four bishops in, in 1988. This is the exact same thing.

[Jay]

So.

[Main Speaker / Jay (Extended Monologue)]

Ecat says for $5. I live in St. Mary's Kansas. They built a large SSPX church there. It's one of the biggest in the world. Half the town goes to it. Well, I'm sorry for you guys. AC says for dollars, guys, Rome has the keys. If SSPX is excommunicated. Oh, how much betrayal can they take? Can I take exactly. Math. Matthew Conklin, $20. Vatican one says, quote, clergy and faithful are bound to submit to Rome not only in faith and morals, but also in discipline and government. Yes, I have been saying this for. When did I come out of the SSPX? 2007. So I've argued this for almost 20 years. Next year will be 20 years of me arguing this point, that this is a denial of Vatican 1. Why does the SSPX exist? Scumbag. We cover that in the first hour. The Lord is working through Avery. Yeah, but the Lord can work through Caiaphas, the high priest who was an evil blasphemer and prophesied. The Lord can work through Balaam, the false prophet who prophesied of Jesus even though he's a false prophet. So you need to get out of your dumb stage of not understanding stuff. BP BM, $10. Most of the SSPX staunch people are just going to go to some liberal Catholic church and admit that Rome didn't air. I mean, there's always been a schism between people in the sspx. Some, some of them want to go back to Rome and some of them wanting to be like state of a contest. So they'll just have to. There'll be a split amongst them. Tyrone, $5. You guys know there's already. This already happened with. This is why there's the fssp. This is people who were brought back into communion with Rome. The fraternal society of St. Peter. This is the SSPX people who are already in communion with Rome. So some of them will become fssp. And then. But I mean, they're gonna, they're shutting down Latin masses anyway. So when are you Idiots going to figure out that Rome hates you. Nick at night. $10. What do you think about TPUSA? I think that Andrew is just training people for debate and I don't think that's a big deal. Richard, $2. What's up, John? $5. Rome has been quiet about Moscow and Constantinople. I wonder why. Could be a lot of different reasons. Maybe they're focusing on these other types of internal issues. But I know the EP said the other day or no Leo. Leo, the ep, one of the two said the other day they're ready for a reunion. But they always say. They say this stuff all the time. Richard, $10. It would be great if you would debate Tovia Singer. I don't know. I've been hearing that he doesn't do a lot of debates anymore. I know he does videos against Christianity but I mean a lot of these debates with these types of people, they're. It's the same debate over and over. So he's had that debate with. Didn't he debate Sam Shamoon? I don't remember. Gregory, $5. Watch the speeches about America's 250th anniversary. They're pushing a one world religion. I bet they are. Nick, $10. It's kind of interesting that watered down sex are beloved and accepted. This goes along with Big Z ideology. They've all been duped. Well, Big Z has a huge role in evangelical. So AC $5. Were all the trad Catholics and trad Protestants questioning America for the centuries before there was a kgb? Some were, but probably not as many. Spirit on. What's up Keia? $10. I'm studying a degree in divinity. After four years of military, I'll be a catechumen. I want to ask you, do you have any advice about orthodox in the academic world? Good luck. I left that world so I can't. I mean I didn't. I didn't fare very well. If you be quiet and keep your head down, you can make it through. Build that 14. I was going to talk about Hegelian diaproc.

[Jay]

Good grief.

[Main Speaker / Jay (Extended Monologue)]

Dude, there's. I appreciate you guys super chats, man. I gotta go. Do I gotta do Lord Voldemort here? Hey babe, could you bring me that Rothschild book? Oh, and can you turn the air down? It's freaking blazing hot. I'm sweating, man. Thank you. What do you think about Gary North's paper? I don't. I don't follow Gary North. Dude, I don't know what to say. I did listen to Gary north talks on Dietproxis. Though. I listened to like 23 lectures of that. But that was, that was in when I was like 20 years old. So I don't really know how to link that to. I haven't read a Gary north book in 20 years, man. But great question. I'll have to think about that. Nick. At night, Middle Eastern people are watering down Christianity, not a massage agent. $20. God Logic's poster Black Jesus actually made sense when I saw this video. Oh, he has a black Jesus. See that's right there. That's obviously heterodox. Jesus has to be as he's presented in the orthodox icons. He's not a black dude. He's a descendant of David. He's not from Africa. Joshua, $10. It's amazing how the traditional Catholics would rather cope than face reality. Every cult does this, dude. It's the same with the redeemed zoomer, the Protestants. Yep, it's a learning curve. You got to go through all the stages of grief. Chetnik, $10. For the love of God, put an album out, do some evangelical slop. We'll try to. Haley, $10. Thank you, GM. Guys, there's. There's like five more super chats. I'll have to read these. Maybe I'll do a stream later tonight. We'll do some other topics. We covered most of what I want

[Lady Luck]

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