The DOWNFALL of RUSLAN KD -Jay Dyer

Summary

Podcast Summary: “The Downfall of Ruslan KD” — Jay Dyer (Jay'sAnalysis, May 26, 2026)

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Episode Overview

This episode features Jay Dyer, joined by guest Jim Bob and occasional appearances via clips or references from Ruslan and Andrew Wilson. The central theme is a no-holds-barred critique of Christian YouTuber Ruslan KD’s comments and behaviors regarding debates on Christian theology, Church authority, and monetization within online Christian communities. Jay delivers a fiery, satirical takedown, focusing on recent controversies involving so-called “Ortho Bros,” accusations of grifting, doctrinal disputes, and the broader state of online Christian apologetics.

The tone oscillates between combative, comedic, and polemical, with Jay and Jim Bob providing counterpoints, highlighting logical inconsistencies, and lampooning what they see as marketing schemes disguised as ministry.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Distinction Between Debate & Smear: Ruslan’s Narrative Control

• [01:23, 22:00, 37:31] Jay repeatedly accuses Ruslan of reframing theological debates (e.g., exclusivism, Church authority) as mere personality squabbles or “infighting,” and claims he’s avoiding substantive engagement:

  “He reframes and recharacterizes everything in the exact opposite of what actually happened.” — Jay Dyer [01:54]

• Jay insists the real issue is protestant apologists' inability (especially David Wood’s) to clearly state their own beliefs after decades in apologetics.
• Ruslan is painted as dodging real debate, focusing on optics and channel growth.

2. Grifting & Monetization Allegations

• [09:20, 19:04, 70:45, 72:28] Jay and Jim Bob spotlight Ruslan’s explicit strategizing about “monetizing” his Christian audience, with several pointed quotes from Ruslan:

  “How do I monetize these people?” — Ruslan [09:20, 31:04, 70:47] “What we're really asking is, how do I build a business?” — Ruslan [71:14, 78:32]

• Jay contrasts this with the “rap church” model, accusing Ruslan and his network of prioritizing business and consulting over doctrine or spiritual integrity:

  “This is a marketing... who decided, I'll take all of this and do business church.” — Jay Dyer [72:56]

• Jay points to consulting fees, claims of $10K/yr tithing, and hypocrisy in criticizing Orthodox suggested donations.
• Ruslan’s defense: that helping Christian artists monetize is about sustainability — Jay and Jim Bob skewer this as inconsistent (“You weren’t a successful rapper so you pivoted to marketing church”).

3. Accusations of Ecumenism & Theological Vagueness

• [13:23, 14:12, 20:38, 32:40] Jay lambasts the “no dogma” approach promoted by Ruslan & co., arguing it’s just another form of exclusivism:

  “You can't be exclusivist about not being exclusivist — it’s just the ecumenist version.” — Jay Dyer [08:18]

• Jay and Jim Bob claim the Protestant/evangelical network refuses to say what makes a true church, while attacking Orthodox exclusivity.
• Repeating the challenge: "Just state your positive position. What do you actually believe? What is your church?”

4. Handling of Orthodox Practice & Scandals

• [24:11, 27:31, 29:53] Ruslan’s criticisms of “charging for sacraments” and “smelly, misogynistic Ortho bros” are called out as distortions or outright lies. Jay points to standard, clarified church practices (suggested donations for hall rental, not sacraments).
• Jay sees these recurring attacks as attempts to discredit Orthodoxy via guilt by association or emotional scandals (e.g., the “revenge porn” controversy).

5. Hypocrisy & Deflection: Policing Ortho Bros, Ignoring Homebase Corruption

• [66:09, 66:35] Jay critiques selective outrage — emphasizing, for example, the lack of condemnation of “Skittles” (LGBTQ-affirming) pastors in Protestant churches versus online ‘sin’ among Orthodox.
• Ruslan is accused of using disingenuous ‘calls to action’ to get Orthodox clergy to “cancel” his online critics [111:07].

6. Wider Geopolitical (and Paranoia) Angles

• [33:36, 51:19, 54:11] Jay lampoons attempts to tie Orthodox theology to Russian political machinations, implying it's a distraction from theological engagement.
• Jay spots a trend of “defending CIA narratives” and “pro-NATO” apologetics in that camp.

7. Claims of Victimhood, Deflections & Performative ‘Piety’

• [69:50, 75:07] Ruslan’s response to being called a “grifter” is to claim harassment and show off his blocking activity. Jay and Jim Bob ridicule his efforts to distance himself from prior statements via superficial changes (switching studios, new drip):

  “If you say a cuss word, just get...a different studio to make up for it.” — Jay Dyer [79:58]

• The “leftist tactics” critique—Ruslan is accused of employing emotional pearl-clutching, appeals to the ‘lowest common denominator,’ and resorting to “SPLC” style guilt-by-association.

8. Formal Debate: Permanent Dodge

• [17:22, 44:00, 98:30] Jay asserts that no one on the Protestant or evangelical side will do a real public debate on these topics, despite repeated invitations — especially after Ruslan, David Wood, and others “agreed then backed out.”
• Mockery of the “call-in show” format and its “lowest tier” representatives (“retail streams,” “guys in empty apartments”).

9. Ultimate Stakes & Theological Challenge

• Jay emphasizes the Orthodox position as grounded, unchanging, and public, citing the Nicene Creed and early Church history [49:39].
• He contends the anti-exclusivist evangelicals are “all talk,” constantly shifting ground, “just marketing a business model.”
• Repeats that the entire drama is a shell game to distract from the nonexistence of real Protestant ecclesiology.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

1. On Ecumenism and Exclusivity

“You can't be exclusivist about not being exclusivist — it's just the ecumenist version.”
— Jay Dyer [08:18]

2. On Monetization

“How do I monetize these people?... What we're really asking is, how do I build a business?”
— Ruslan (quoted by Jay and replayed) [09:20, 31:04, 70:47, 71:14]

“This is a marketing... who decided, I'll take all of this and do business church.”
— Jay Dyer [72:56]

3. On Debate Refusals and Logic

“You agreed to the debate, dummy. You're the one that said four times you would debate and then said no, I'm not gonna.”
— Jay Dyer [22:49]

“No cult teaches people basic logic. We do. Duh. We're the opposite of a cult.”
— Jay Dyer [44:00]

4. On ‘Victim’ Narratives & Evasion

“If you say a cuss word, just get...a different studio to make up for it.”
— Jay Dyer [79:58]

“I'm in a new studio, dog...I'm straight up, I'm reformed.”
— Jay Dyer [82:22]

5. On Theological Sophistication

“That's why at the end of it, he's backtracking, being like, I'm gonna go to war, but also, I'm not gonna do it because I'm above it. But also, logic don't matter. But I'm going to show you, you fallacious, you.”
— Jay Dyer [110:01]

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Important Timestamps for Reference

• [01:23] — Debate about “partnering with Dawa”; initial misrepresentation accusations.
• [09:20] — Ruslan’s “How do I monetize these people?” and the first breakdown of business church criticism.
• [13:23–14:12] — Discussion on the ecumenist “no-exclusivity” position.
• [17:22] — Jay notes repeatedly dodged debates.
• [27:31] — Discussion of “revenge porn” allegations and Ruslan’s narrative building.
• [31:04] — Delving deeper into church monetization, suggested donations, and hypocrisy.
• [44:00] — Jay lampoons claims of cultishness, points to openness to public debate as counterevidence.
• [49:39] — Nicene Creed and claims of Orthodox continuity.
• [66:09] — Hypocrisy claims: ignoring LGBTQ clergy in Protestantism, focusing on ‘Ortho bro sin.’
• [69:50, 70:47] — Ruslan’s “block” strategy and further monetization confessions.
• [79:58–80:24] — The “different studio” and “new beanie” defense, ridiculed.
• [98:30] — Jay’s guarantee of debate refusals from major Protestant apologists.

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Conclusion: Final Satirical Send-Up

Jay Dyer sums up that the spectacle is a “war” that the Orthodox side is happy to continue, with the recurring refrain that the only real “downfall” is the exposure of the business-first, dogma-light approach in modern evangelical internet spaces. The episode closes with repeated invites for substantive debate, a running tally of shifting narratives, and derisive, comedic jabs at the performativity and lack of theological seriousness among his critics.

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For listeners wishing to understand the core divides in contemporary online Christian apologetics—and the personalities, logic, and marketing strategies behind them—this episode is both comprehensive and unreservedly polemical. It is as much a defense of Orthodox identity as a critique of what Jay derisively calls “business church” and “rap church,” all delivered with biting humor and abundant rhetorical fire.

Transcript

[Jay Dyer]

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[Ruslan]

Shouldn't partner with Dawa Liars. Who, by the way, have docs. David woods family.

[Jay Dyer]

Nobody partnered with Dawa. You see this lie? The question was, can I agree to a person's proposition? And this liar just reframed it as partnering with Dawa. So I hope he pays attention to all the bullshit that he says, because if this ever blows up like, those are, like, serious characterizations. Partnering with Dawa. Partnering.

[Jim Bob]

Yeah.

[Jay Dyer]

Agreeing with the proposition is not partnering. And Ruslan, if you think that's going to hold up in court, you got another thing coming, dog.

[Ruslan]

So now what came out is if you are not willing to have an opinion on every single theological issue to disclose your denomination.

[Jay Dyer]

No, if it's. You're not able to have a basic statement of what I'm supposed to go to as a Christian. Again, this dude is such a liar. He reframes and recharacterizes everything in the exact opposite of what actually happened. The question was, you can't tell me a basic Christian position on soteriology. As a Protestant, after 20 years of apologetics, it wasn't can you have a definite opinion on everything? So again, he's lying and mischaracterizing. The Ortho bros had the worst week. Are you sure about that? Did you mean to say I'm just going to assume that you misspoke.

[Ruslan]

The Ortho Bros had the worst week ever actually coming out of this entire.

[Jay Dyer]

So this dude's strategy is to just triple down on everything being bad for him. Losing everything, losing every battle. He can't even win a rap battle as a supposed rapper. And he's. His strategy is to quadruple down that the Oro Bros are losing when Ruslan is over here at synagogues that actually circumcised Young Don, right, Turned him into no Dong. Young Dong got circumcised to this dumbass scam synagogue because Ruse Run and God Logic sent him there and then became an atheist out of all this. And here's Ruse Run. This is we had the worst week ever because Ruse Run, I figured out that Ruslan. Everything Ruslan is saying is the problems that he's going through, right? If the Ortho Bros are doing xyz, it's what Ruslan's doing, right? So Ruslan had the worst week is how to translate that. Because remember, he was just at the synagogue preaching on the Coke Pepsi schism from a laptop in a gym.

[Ruslan]

Can you guys imagine how that worked out? Didn't work out very well. So launching New Coke in 1985 is semi sweeter recipe that was more similar to Pepsi. However, New Coke was such a disaster, it almost caused Coca Cola the soda wars. And this is why is because there was three categories of people that these folks were looking at. They had the advocate Coca Cola drinkers, then they had the neutrals, and then they had the people that were completely opposed.

[Jay Dyer]

So there you go. It's over for the Ortho Bros. We got shut down by Rap Church. We saw that Ruse runs rap Church charges $2,000 for counseling on how to church plant. $2,000 to talk to his grift pastor at Rap Church on how to plant a church. We saw that this week at every angle, at every turn. These people are making absolute fools of themselves. But it's the worst week the Ortho Bros have ever had. Even though we just showed Andrew just showed that David Wood can't even say what the solos are. And if he believes the five SOLAs. 20 years of apologetics and he can't say basic Protestant theology positions. And if he holds to them as

[Ruslan]

a Protestant evangelical apologist, God logic, Muhammad hijab situation. Let me give you guys a bit of the backstory, how I'm loosely involved in some of this. How they're attempting to put out fires by going on every single by the

[Jay Dyer]

way this dummy is the cause of all of this. So he's leaving out the fact that he admitted in his other video that he was wrong to pit two apologists against a catechumen. So he admitted the whole thing, that everything started from that it was all his fault platform.

[Ruslan]

Basically, in the last week, there's been all sorts of infighting between ortho bro apologists. If you guys don't know who orthopos are, they're kind of distinct.

[Jay Dyer]

Actually, there's been no infighting with ortho bro apologists. Every ortho bro and ortho bro apologist is on the same page here. So I guess he just misspoke there.

[Ruslan]

From Eastern Orthodox folks who are generally very pleasant and very chill. They are way more rigid in their thinking and like, think of like the Westboro Baptists, but with like Eastern bells and swells.

[Jay Dyer]

Okay, so literally ortho bros are equivalent to Fed Phelps and the insane cult of the Baptist. He knows that's not true. Which is. It's not even a even remotely close analogy. So basically because we have the same theology as the first thousand years of the church, Ruslan is saying that the Westboro Baptist Church is what the first thousand years of Christianity was like. That's how dumb this idiot is. That's essentially what he's saying because he thinks that ortho bros who are really just normal orthodox people stating normal orthodox theology, which anybody can go look to see. If that is the case, we're equivalent to Fed Phelps and the Westboro Baptist Church. Ironically, it's these people who send people to

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[Jay Dyer]

Weirdo. Synagogues like this that tell people to get circumcised and not eat pork today. So in his mind to go to a judaizing sect where he preaches. That's normal Ruslanianity. But orthodox Christianity is like Westboro Baptist Church to this idiot. And this dude is making himself into the biggest clown on the Internet dude. Easily making himself into it. The same guy whose whole open admitted approach is a marketing scheme and more people.

[Ruslan]

When you drop something that's scarce, you're leaning on scarcity. Limited edition. There's only a few of it. It drives the value and the hype of it up and more people engage. Okay, so that is something else. In a strategic collaboration you can use scarcity to drive the perceived value of.

[Jay Dyer]

Now let's also remind you guys that according to this idiot who sends people to this synagogue where he's supposed to get circumcised and they circumcise Young Don made him young dong and then he became an atheist. That's normal Christianity to ruse run. Why? Because they don't teach exclusivism. But guess what? What have we seen all week long? Turns out inspiring philosophy, God, logic, ruse run. Gavin Gavin Ortland, West Huff. They are exclusivists. What? Yes. Turns out they are exclusively dogmatic that you can't be exclusivist. So that's a version of exclusivism. Dummies. You all say that you can't go to a church that teaches that it's the true church. So you have to teach that all the churches are the true church. You idiots. That's another version of you're the true church. It's just an ecumenist version of it. Dummies. This is how stupid these people are. Let me remind you, this is the person that's telling you about the true church. This idiot.

[Ruslan]

Thousand on Tik Tok 2, 300, 500,000. How do I monetize these people? You know what I mean? How do I monetize these people?

[Jay Dyer]

That's who you're going to for true Christianity here. This idiot. This is his pastor. His pastor teaches entire sermons on how to be a good tither. And they can spot right away if you're not going to be a good Tither right there.

[Ruslan]

Some people in here that are like,

[Jay Dyer]

well, I try to tithe and I couldn't afford to tithe or I did the tithe and I still, like, I still was broke. And I'd say a bad budgeter will be a broke tither. So these, this rap church has already got it all mapped out as to whether or not they're interested in having you in terms of whether you're going to be able to tithe or not. That's what that, that's the decoding, that marketing speak right there. Right? Okay, so you're not able to do the 10% tithe, which according to average income of San Diego is $10,000 a year. Maybe you need to go over there to the Cholo church. Dude, we're looking for, we're looking for tithers that can actually make bank, bro. Now, it's a bad week for the ortho bros. But David Wood can't even say if he knows Christian theology right enough to say or well enough to say what his positions are. Well, guess what, David, how do you, how do you know that your anti Islamic reasoning was good enough by that same standard?

[Andrew Wilson]

Well, leading up to me becoming a Christian, everything just, it broke down right. It's like I was completely convinced of all these things and I was completely, totally wrong. I concluded basically, don't. I can't trust myself that much. I can't trust my reasoning. I feel, I feel like a constant now when I'm around really stupid people, I'll start feeling like a genius. But I'm always, I'm always in the, I'm always in the thought mode that like, you know, if this is everything, that if this likes, if there's a circle with like everything that can be known, I know like that what I actually know is like one tiny insignificant dot of that.

[Jay Dyer]

So if David Wood can't rest on his own reasoning when it comes to. Do you believe that the basics of evangelical Protestant theology, 20 years into this, he doesn't know. His answer is I can't trust my own reasoning. Which is all false humility because David Wood is an admitted narcissistic psychopath, admittedly so. He's saying that to play to the audience who he thinks are a bunch of idiots that, oh, it's just humility. Which is why he can't say if he believes the Reformation distinctives. However, how do you trust your reasoning about anti Islamic apologetics for 20 years? So this is all such a bunch of nonsense. Like, these people have all been exposed as don't. No actual concern for Christian theology, church history, any of that. It's literally just the anti Islamianity grift. Go to whatever church you want, but just don't say there's an exclusivist church. And by the way, we're exclusivists about that. What's up, Jim Bob?

[Jim Bob]

Yo, what's going on?

[Jay Dyer]

Welcome, bro.

[Jim Bob]

Yeah, thank you. I just wanted to add in there that, you know, if he felt like he couldn't really lean into his own reasoning and he feels stupid most of the time, it would make sense to be around Muslims to make yourself feel a little bit better. But we're starting to understand that, like, well, dude, you can get, you could be given a script and refute Islam. The problem that you've been pointing out, and I'm trying to echo it here, is once you get a Muslim person thinking about leaving Islam, the last thing you want to do is just give them a Bible and say, good luck, dude. Good luck reading the Bible. It's like, especially a Muslim, like, I don't understand how he can't see that as, as a, as a fair contention.

[Jay Dyer]

He knows that, but like, he's doing whatever he can to save face. And that's why he's literally just now supposedly learning what the distinctions between Protestants, Catholics and evangelicals. How do you, how do you apologist for 20 years, you don't know basics. But Jim Bob, any comments?

[Jim Bob]

Yeah, I mean, something that's just kind of funny is that if they're arguing for like this pluralism, it would have to include orthodoxy, first of all. Second of all, they, they really want, want to isolate on this thing called an ortho, bro. So they don't really have to contend with orthodoxy.

[Jay Dyer]

Exactly.

[Jim Bob]

I keep seeing this over and over again.

[Jay Dyer]

That was Cleave's point, talking about orthodoxy.

[Jim Bob]

And then they're like, yeah, but then the ortho bros. And I'm like, dude, you guys have to deal with this, this contention. Are you arguing for Christianity or not? And if so, you got to deal with what, what's the true church? And if you say everything is, then you shouldn't have a problem with ortho bros at all anyway. You shouldn't even have a problem with them. There's just another church, right? Just another subsect of a church, right? That's it. We should be included, right?

[Jay Dyer]

Yeah, but that's the point is that you, the only thing that excludes you is orthodox exclusivity, because their version of exclusivity is just ecumenism. You have to, you have to be ecumenist. Now let's, let's see an example. Here's God Logic again. He's got the opportunity to share real stuff with whoever this black dude is. Lecrae, whoever that is. Let's see, Jesuit, Catholic or Roman Catholic, whatever. Just. I'm a Catholic.

[Commercial Announcer]

Yeah.

[Jay Dyer]

All right. Is that a no for you? It would, it would depend on the extremism. Like if the, if you're, if you run into like this is with any denomination, if you're running into one that's saying that, you know, if you're not part of this church or this denomination, you are hell bent. Okay, that red flags. But they are, they are extremists. They are extreme ecumenists who say that if you aren't an ecumenist about the church, right, then you are a rigorous crazy ortho, bro. You're a cult. So they're just doing the same standard with their ecumenism. They don't see this? Of course not. There is no church was apologetic as we've been saying. And over and over and over these guys when they're on the biggest platforms given the so called gospel to it's the same repeat with young Dawn. They all told young Don, oh, you would really want to serve Jesus, come out of your Baptist church and come to this messianic synagogue where we're going to circumcise you. That's what these they're pushing. How do you not see this? And all they want to do is say me Oro bros. On what basis is it mean to tell people that there is one true church and that it's not the messianic synagogue with Mexican rabbi rappers? All right, let's play some Aruson then Jimbo. Feel free to comment.

[Ruslan]

So they were initially upset at God Logic. Okay, follow along for a second. They were upset at God Logic because God Logic did a live stream that then redirected to his second channel which is ran by his friend Life, which then redirected to JP's live stream where at some point tonight JP was speaking to an inquirer of Eastern Orthodoxy and then they were talking him out of becoming Eastern Orthodox now.

[Jay Dyer]

And the God Logic dude was in the chat cheering on the gaslighting of the Inquirer.

[Ruslan]

If he started doing all of this probably about a month ago, jp, Mohler, Alton, a bunch of different channels because all this vitriol was hurled at me when I said, hey, I'm not going to debate Jay Dyer and I'm not going to dedicate a bunch of time to this sort of stuff.

[Jay Dyer]

No, the vitriol was at you because you admittedly made a mistake. You said I should not have had the inquirer on the stage. That's why it was after you. So again, he reframes it and leaves out the actual reason as to why everybody got mad at him. And also, if you admitted that you were wrong, why didn't you bring that back up? Right. And by the way, the vitriol against you in terms of the other stuff had to do with your stupid ass attitude of flexing your channel in everybody's face and also assuming that. No, the other thing was that you said four times you would debate and then you backtracked on it. That's another thing.

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[Ruslan]

So what happened was because this entire thing happened, Jay Dyer then agreed with a dawah dude, a Muslim dawah dude who said that God logic is a grifter. Okay, now this is an accusation often hurled by the Eastern Orthodox. Now everyone is a grifter. Okay, so God logic is a grifter.

[Jay Dyer]

No, you're grifters because you run money church where you ask for $10,000 from your congregants and $2,000 to talk to your fake rap pastor for one hour on how to church plant Jim Bob, anything.

[Jim Bob]

Yeah, I think they just have to understand what we're. What we're saying when you say a grifter, like we're pointing to specific things and. And most importantly, you're people who say, hey, I'm a Christian, I'm pointing you to Christianity. But when we ask what is it, they don't have an answer. They're basically selling something they don't have.

[Jay Dyer]

They're using the Peter Drucker model of no dogmas and inclusivity. That is the Peter Drucker church plant church selling model. And here's another one of these goobers with God logic.

[Ruslan]

Jesus saved people in the Greek Orthodox Church. But I think the next question you got to ask is, does Jesus save people in the Greek Orthodox Church or should you adopt sola scriptura sola fide, sola gratia, solus Christus soli de gloria?

[Jay Dyer]

We should move on. So he's saying that the Greek Orthodox Church doesn't have the solas, so it's not a true church. So they can say we're not a true church. See the hypocrisy there? This guy says, I think the next, you're not a true church because you don't have the solas. That's exclusivist doctrines, dude. So. And God logic's just sitting there. Let him say it. He doesn't even say anything. But God logic tells the other people, if you teach an exclusivist doctrine, that's the problem. Well, your co host is teaching it right there, dude. What are you talking about?

[Jim Bob]

Yeah, what we, what we're trying to get them to do is we want them to be more clear on exclusivity. That's what we're challenged. What you've been challenging David Wood on. If you say you're Christian, what we're saying is that's an exclusive claim to be Christian. What does it mean? Can you, can you put your positive position up, up against our positive position? David Wood seems to think that means. Oh, I know, I have to attack now. I attack Eastern Orthodoxy and figure out the arguments against it. That's actually not even what we're asking. We're asking you to just tell us what you believe. You couldn't even do it when Andrew is on. So I, I don't know what, I don't know what they're thinking. This avenue is. We just want them to make their positive case. But like you said, their positive cases plural, like a pluralism, humanism.

[Jay Dyer]

Ruan says now, now everyone is a grifter. No, specifically you and David Wood are grifters. Now this. And this is why when you drop

[Ruslan]

something that's scarce, you're leaning on scarcity limited edition. There's only a few of it it drives the value and the hype of it up and more people engage. Okay, so that is something else. In a strategic collaboration you can use scarcity to drive the perceived value of what you're ruin.

[Jay Dyer]

Charges 500 to $1,000 to talk to him in person and he's saying now every. I'm serious now everybody's a griff. No, you dude, you dummy.

[Ruslan]

Then let's Andrew Wilson who had a five hour live stream with David Wood which is utterly insufferable playing games and word salad around.

[Jay Dyer]

No, David Wood was the one playing games because he wouldn't commit to a position after 20 years of apologetics. So you and your stupid ass broccoli head retelling of the story we all know is day one presuppositions when you

[Ruslan]

should or shouldn't partner with Dawa liars who by the way have docs David woods family.

[Jay Dyer]

Yeah, nobody partnered with Dawa. You see this lie? The question was can I agree to a person's proposition? And this liar just reframed it as partnering with Dawa. So I hope he pays attention to all the that he says because if this ever blows up, if this ever becomes something like. Those are like serious characterizations. Partnering with Dawa. Partnering.

[Jim Bob]

Yeah, yeah.

[Jay Dyer]

Agreeing with the proposition is not partnering in Ruslan. If you think that's going to hold up in court, you got another thing

[Ruslan]

coming Dog God logic. I think his wife just like really bad faith actors from this whole thing. Okay. And so that what came out is if you are not willing to have an opinion on every single theological issue to disclose your denomination.

[Jay Dyer]

No, if it's. You're not able to have a basic statement of what I'm supposed to go to as a Christian. Again, this dude is such a liar. He reframes and recharacterizes everything in the exact opposite of what actually happened. The question was you can't tell me a basic Christian position on soteriology as a Protestant after 20 years of apologetics. It wasn't can you have a definite opinion on everything. So again he's lying and mischaracterizing it

[Ruslan]

to debate them upon their prompting. Debate me or your gay. Debate me or your gay. Debate me or your gay. You shouldn't even be doing apologetic.

[Jay Dyer]

Dude. You agreed to the debate, dummy. You're the one that said four times you would debate and then said no, I'm not gonna.

[Jim Bob]

He says, he says it in this video too, Jay. At the end he says well I'm thinking of debating.

[Jay Dyer]

You already said I have to publicly Repent to you, you gay dude.

[Ruslan]

Okay, this is, this is what they're now saying. And in all of this, it's awoken an entire community of people to combat their issues.

[Jay Dyer]

So now they know it's only awoken a bunch of independent Baptists to try to find pearl clutching examples of $200 for a baptismal celebration, renting out the fellowship hall. That's all it's done.

[Ruslan]

From calling God Logic a grifter to getting behind the GoFundMe of God logic, which is peak irony and all this.

[Jay Dyer]

No, it's not. It makes perfect sense if you aren't a 80 IQ. I support God Logic against being irrationally sued by, you know, he doesn't understand. A person can have nuance in this. I don't want a live streamer to be able to be sued. When it was agreed that they could, they could restream the. This, the. The. The broadcast because I'm a live streamer dummy, it affects anyone in the live streaming community because if Muhammad Hijab won that case, it would affect all live streamers.

[Jim Bob]

Right?

[Jay Dyer]

And God Logic was correct in that case. That doesn't mean that I have to agree with God Logic's non exclusivist, exclusivity, dogmatic ecumenist claim, dummy.

[Ruslan]

At the same time, at the same time there was a scandal that broke out because a girl named Catherine wrote a substack about dating an Eastern Orthodox community and pointed out that, you know, a lot of these guys are coming.

[Jay Dyer]

Here we go. So this dummy, of course, is going to latch on to some rando unstable woman writing a substack post as ammo against all the ortho bros, when none of these people would just come out and say that they don't like orthodoxy. Although Ruslan did admit that in the previous video, remember? He was like, I was open to orthodoxy. Not so much anymore. He's spilling the beans, dude, that he just doesn't like Orthodoxy. Any comment?

[Jim Bob]

Yeah, no, I think you're on to their, to the game. And everyone kind of knew the game to begin with, but it finally is. Is finding its head, which is like, you guys can't just stay on the fence with broad Christianity. It's not a good enough excuse to have a business about it. We're going to press you on what you actually believe because you're actually misleading people.

[Jay Dyer]

Exactly.

[Ruslan]

Out of the red pill manosphere brain rot. They are dealing with just like basic grooming issues and smell issues and, and they're very demeaning towards women.

[Jay Dyer]

So hear that so all the ortho bros don't know how to groom themselves. They don't know how to act. So you just default listen to Catherine, who was shown to be a total hypocrite in her post. And it's all the ortho bros who don't take shower. Dude, you go to fricking rap church. You got broccoli here. You wear your stupid godly ambition T shirts when you preach. Look at your freaking grooming skills, dude. You got to want to be afro because you wish you were black. I am black. You wish you were me. Dude, what you talking about now?

[Ruslan]

And all that. They then exposed revenge corn of this poor girl, okay? Which then divided the online ortho bros even more.

[Jay Dyer]

Or, I mean, another lie. No, they didn't. That's another lie. They blacked out the images. And the one that was a bikini photo. So everybody who shows a photo. That's a. That's. So basically every website with a swimsuit is revenge corn now.

[Jim Bob]

Right? Right.

[Jay Dyer]

This dude is so. Man. You see why he put our debate when we were on friendly terms behind the paywall? Because I called out about four fallacies when we had our two hour debate, and he put that, of course, behind the paywall. Right? Because he knows that. And remember he said in his last video, yo, they want to talk about freaking fallacies and all this. I don't care about fallacies. Don't nobody care about fallacies. He thinks fallacies are like, just a tactic.

[Jim Bob]

It.

[Jay Dyer]

It's just word salad, according to him.

[Ruslan]

Yeah. For the first time, we saw or bros finally calling him out. And then this is all the same week, mind you. So they go from God. Logic is a grifter shocker.

[Jay Dyer]

He sides with the mentally unstable feminist to attack the Oro Bros. Shocker. Right? Doesn't even know what the story. Don't even know what happened. Just. Just side with anybody who hates Oro Bros right now. Notice how different it is from our approach. I debate the Muslims for eight years straight. Nine years straight. I agree with one statement of one Muslim I'm allied within with them, even though I've opposed and debated them for 10 years. Ruslan immediately latches on to and goes with and runs with anybody opposed to orthodox, even schismatic priests like that lunatic they brought on their. Their stream. So do you see the. The double standard there? How crazy it actually is?

[Ruslan]

What's a grifter? IP is a grifter, okay? Which is ironic because if everybody's a grifter, then. Then that word uses all Meaning?

[Jay Dyer]

Okay, no, it's. You're a grifter. If you can't tell us why or what church we're supposed to go to or what the history of the church is. That's the accusation. It's not just everyone is a grifter. No, you and your allies are grifting. That's the accusation.

[Ruslan]

Dude, if everyone's a grifter, it's like the word racist, right? Like everyone's racist. Then what is racism?

[Jay Dyer]

Right, so you mean like how David Wood and your crowd tries to say that we're all racist with no accusation, with no proof. How can I be racist if I'm black? Exactly.

[Ruslan]

Why? Because they. They're not willing to have the debate about the one true church.

[Jay Dyer]

Okay, this, exactly, all of this smoke and mirror is to avoid the actual theological debate.

[Ruslan]

On top of the scandal with this girl writing a substack, talking about dating an Orthodox.

[Jay Dyer]

Yeah, the scandal is what she calls dummy.

[Ruslan]

There's a very reasonable article. Her name's Catherine, that.

[Jay Dyer]

No, it's not. In fact, she was a hypocrite. And a lot of it. Who even knows if his name was true? That chick, when she first came into the discord, was booted out in 2017 because she was causing problems. Shout out to Kai, who sensed this years ago.

[Ruslan]

Revenge corn that was released of hers is now even being debated within some of these circles. And if she should be. And the photos they released were of her like in a bathing suit. And then.

[Jay Dyer]

Oh, well, so wait a minute. If. If the ones that were posted were just bathing suits, then you just refuted yourself, idiot. Because that's not revenge corn, dummy.

[Ruslan]

There was actually, I guess, explicit photo she sent. I don't know. Basically they're saying she's a hypocrite for saying anything about dating, which is a very nuanced article. So that happened.

[Jay Dyer]

Oh, so wait a minute. So that happened. Well, that would undo your previous point, dummy.

[Ruslan]

Okay, and then it's a bunch of screenshots of Eastern Orthodox churches, and I think some Catholic churches too, seemingly charging.

[Jay Dyer]

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[Ruslan]

for the sacrament of baptism.

[Jim Bob]

We already corrected this dude. He literally corrected this. You correct this right on his post, or Chase Haggard corrected this on his post. He knows that these are suggested donations. He knows that not a single one of these churches would say, no, you can't get baptized. You got to save up the money. Not. Not a single one. And he's. He. He knows it. That's why he says seemingly that means he knows. He knows.

[Jay Dyer]

Yeah, but this is how he can still lie, right? This is how he can still lie. Exactly. So he's able to lie. He is a total liar. By the way, here's Ruslan's own church asking for $10,000 a year from its congregants to be obedient. So Ruslan's church asks for $10,000 a year. Ruslan says he's. All he wants to do is monetize his audience. This is the dude defending $10,000 a year and complaining about a 200 suggested fee to rent out the phone to rent out the church fellowship hall. Cleave called these churches and asked them, is it 200 to receive the sacrament? No, it's 200 to have the party and the fellowship hall, bro. I got the following.

[Ruslan]

I got 28,000. I got 200,000 on TikTok 2, 300, 500,000. How do I monetize these people?

[Jay Dyer]

This is the dude complaining about a fee to rent a fellowship hall. At it. He goes to a church that asks for $10,000 a year from its San Diego congregants.

[Ruslan]

Okay? All this all happens in the same week. Now, I didn't cover this last week because I was traveling. I was in Florida. Shout out to all my people that came out to the show in Tampa. Probably our best show that we've had, over 200 people. So thank you guys to all came out there. So in the midst of all this, they are absolutely nothing else. Andrew Wilson is jumping into any stream he can to try and, you know, put out the fires. And now this has led David Wood to say, okay, so we're all grifters if we can't debate your one to church. So David woods been doing an onslaught.

[Jay Dyer]

No, the argument is not, you're a grifter because you can't debate one true church. The argument is that after 20 years of apologetics, you can't say whether you believe the Protestant basics or what the right church to Send a convert to

[Ruslan]

is dummy of Eastern Orthodox streams and engaging with folks who are Eastern Orthodox here in the arguments against it here in the arguments for it. Prepping for some sort of debate. I'm assuming he's going to have. This has other people doing now call in streams debating Orthodox inquirers and it's really all kind of culminating in the same week exposing the utter hypocrisy within this orthobo community and how.

[Jay Dyer]

Where is the hypocrisy? Like the only hypocrisy is everything that you're saying with your church charging $10,000 a year to be obedient church member Dummy. What are you talking about? That he hasn't actually pointed out any hypocrisy. Again, all he has is ortho bro. Bad. That's it. This dude is total. He's a paper tiger dude. He doesn't know what fallacies are as you saw from my debate with him. He even says I don't care about fallacies. And this dummy thinks he's going to debate. It's a joke.

[Ruslan]

Now I want to draw a clear distinction. I think there's a difference between good faith Eastern Orthodox Christians who now so

[Jay Dyer]

this, this is not what's going on. Right. Because he just means I like any of the fake and gay ortho people who are. Who won't say that there's one true church.

[Jim Bob]

Right.

[Jay Dyer]

That's all this means. Any comment Jim Bob, feel free to.

[Jim Bob]

No, yeah, it's. It's clear that there's, there's basically a protection scheme for a very general use of the word Christian as it applies to everything he does which is performances, merchandise, you know, it's a wider net. And the reality is once you actually argue for the true church and you're a part of the true church, you, you obviously that's not a priority. You know that's, that's something that's going to get hit when you say the truth. It's just how it is. And so they're just protect. He especially is just protecting it. He seems like he's protecting like basically a network of people.

[Jay Dyer]

It is a network and we saw for example that David Wood is funded by a Middle Eastern country. His outfit is. And so they might even all just be a giant funded grif scheme that's actually political in its orientation. Maybe even over above anything to do with religion. It might actually just be money that's being put into these groups to promote certain types of non denominational pro Zionist types of Christianity.

[Ruslan]

See other Christians as brothers, sisters in Christ. This would seem like a brother named Fearless Truth. Who believes that, hey, if you're a Christian and you place faith in Jesus, you are a Christian, though they would prefer you to be part of the Orthodox Church. But he would say, hey, you're still. You're still a brother in faith. Right? This is someone that's close to God.

[Jay Dyer]

Yeah, well, I don't know that Nick actually said that, but that's all. Whether Nick said that or not is still not true. Just because you profess faith in Christ, it doesn't make you a brother in Christianity or in the church. As we saw in the first thousand years of the Church, anyone that disagreed with anything in the nice, you know, constant Apolitan creed was not considered within the bounds of Christianity at all. So if you're outside of the Nicene Creed, you're not within, quote, Christianity. That's the delineator. So whether Nick said that or not, which, I don't trust anything Ruslan says, it doesn't matter because it's not true.

[Ruslan]

Logic versus folks that are more hardline and they're angry about anyone that's, quote, unquote, not ecumenical. All right? And this.

[Jay Dyer]

We're not angry. We're just simply calling it out and refuting it. So he thinks we're angry. No, we're angry at all the lies that you tell to try to defend this indefensible position. We're not angry about ecumenism. We think that it's the main heresy of our day.

[Jim Bob]

Yeah, I would add that the frustration, if anything, if they're sensing it, is that they're not isolating it and trying to defend it, you know, itself. We just want you to try to defend it. And they're like, no, we're just going to point out how you guys are flustered and mean and annoyed about us, but we're not going to actually try to defend this general ecumenist view that anybody who says, you know, Jesus Christ his Lord, is a Christian and the rest is history. No, we don't. It's never been done that way.

[Jay Dyer]

Yeah, Just ask these people why a Mormon isn't a Christian if they say Jesus. Yeah, they say Jesus is Lord. Well, Mormons are better because Joseph witnesses won't say the Trinity, but a Mormon will say, I believe in Father, Son and Holy Spirit.

[Jim Bob]

Sure.

[Jay Dyer]

So it's even better with the Mormon example because they have the same propositions, but they attribute, obviously, different meaning to the propositions, which is the whole point of why you can't be a churchless apologist.

[Ruslan]

This all culminated David Wood stream yesterday, which you guys should all check out where he points out just some of the utter brain rot that is coming out from these folks and the memes and the craziness here. Okay? So check this out.

[Andrew Wilson]

Jay Dyer said cops are enraged I was skeptical of the ISIS videos 10 years ago, right?

[Jay Dyer]

So because I said when did this. This is a tweet from like they didn't point out that. This is a Tweet from like 8 years ago where I reported on Fox News saying that the video looks staged. Right? And then they tried to twist that into they're trying to now get the cops on their side. That's the strategy here. Because the cops hate us as much as these people hate us. Because I went to Fox News and said they are claiming that there's that this video might be manipulated or staged, which is entirely possible when it comes to high profile war footage or propaganda footage. This footage comes out of site intelligence run by Rita Katz, which is a Israeli operation. Thus the skepticism.

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[Jay Dyer]

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[Jim Bob]

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[Jay Dyer]

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[Jim Bob]

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[Jay Dyer]

finish turning before driving ahead. Let's all plan to share the road safely. Learn how at www.sharetherodesafely.gov. now the debate the dispute became whether or not we can say the Coptics are Christian martyrs. We can't say that because we don't include people on our calendar outside of the church. When I explained this, I said we don't know those people might end up in heaven because in the Orthodox perspective, Christ can join people to his mystical body in extra normative means, but they're not going to be on our calendar. Same reason Thomas Aquinas won't be a on the calendar of the Orthodox Church celebrated as a saint. So this is. Or Charlie Kirk. Exactly. So this is the. This is. So they immediately trying to find any dirt to try to pull up to make us look bad. But when you actually listen to what the situation is, it makes perfect Sense,

[Andrew Wilson]

but even the mainstream media doubted them. The second article here refers to the Washington Post. So that was back when he was saying he doubted the. The executions of the 21 Coptic Christians. And AP replied, he said, do you agree the martyrs were actually beheaded?

[Ruslan]

Okay, so by the way, AP shots ap. AP is actually, I guess, a cat human becoming Eastern docs himself.

[Jay Dyer]

No, he's not. He ran off to Israel and cheated on his wife during his catechumenate and was told multiple times to stop teaching theology and debating on the Internet because he's an Israel shill. And he ran from a debate with me on the question of Christian Zionism. Right? Just like all of these dudes were run. And notice I even, I even explain in my tweet the correct answer. I don't know what actually happened in this situation because I wasn't there. But we don't call them Christian martyrs any more than we would call a Hezbollah leader a martyr. The very point that I was arguing against or with Ridvon two years ago. Go ahead, Jamal.

[Jim Bob]

I just want to add, in a recent, very recent interview, AP also declared he has, has been Christian for a year and a half or something, which, you know, depending on how you communicate that, you know, if he's not continuing his, his catechesis and he's not in good standing and on his way to baptism. Like, I don't understand how you could kind of declare that and, and sort of be larping in the interview with his prayer rope and everything. Like he's fully involved with Orthodoxy. It was, it was a bitch.

[Jay Dyer]

I mean, they're all open, like open Christian Zionists, which is the very thing that makes them unable to be, to become Orthodox online people. So this is who Ruslan has now thrown his, his, his, his side. And he's on that side and he doesn't realize that like, do you not see that the future of where things are going is not Christian Zionism, you dummy. So you're throwing your lot in with these idiots. And again, I said, look, I even explain what I'm talking about here. They're not Christian martyrs in the canonical sense of like, are we going to put Nasrala on the Orthodox calendar because he was a quote, martyr for Islam? Of course not. So yeah, you just like the word Christian can be used in a generic sense because people are quote, all self identifying loosely as Christian does not mean that we consider them as Christians. So the Coptic martyrs might be publicly considered martyrs, but I'm talking about the Orthodox Church and its law, its canon law. And its canonical liturgical celebrations. We are not going to call Coptic people Christian saint martyrs.

[Ruslan]

And AP says, do you believe they're actually dishonest?

[Jim Bob]

Thing here is people would know this and it wouldn't be controversial. You would just be saying, yeah, we hold the Orthodox position. They're like Jay and Andrew, like, whatever. They're trying to, like, find people and try to present it like it's controversial, but it's actually not a controversial position from an orthodox position at all.

[Jay Dyer]

Exactly.

[Jim Bob]

It's actually.

[Jay Dyer]

Yeah, right. But Ruslan, who obviously doesn't know our theology, he's. They're all just. This is all to try to appeal to the lowest common denominator, low IQ, evangelical audience that they're directed towards. And this is to try to get dumb Coptic people to support them because they don't like us.

[Ruslan]

No martyrs. Now, AP pointed out that their own patriarchs. I believe Bartholomew, one of the big patriarchs, he's not like the Pope, but he's up there. Put it out on the same stream on David Woods Channel that these folks that are kind of leading the church are more ecumenical and see Protestants and Catholics as distant brothers, but still brothers in the faith still, you know.

[Jay Dyer]

Yeah. The fact that Bartholomew is an ecumenist doesn't prove anything, dummy. That'd be like me saying that, Well, I find a prominent Baptist pastor who's not an ecumenist, so I guess that means that Protestants shouldn't be a humanist. I mean, that's the same. That's the equivalent to that. But Ruslan is like, Ruzan actually is and can't debate. So I don't know why he thinks that he's going to be able to ever debate when, if he ever does a debate, it will be the biggest slaughter in the history of online debates. I hope he actually does it because he is terrible. And even the closest friends to him that know him and that we know all tell him, dude, you're not a debater. You're gonna get demolished. Even if you go up against Fuentes or Candace, all the people you've been trying to debate. No. By the way, notice this hypocrite wanted to debate Candace and Fuentes for the last two years. And then bitches and says, how come Jay Dyer only wants to debate big channels? Captain Crack Rock channel is not bigger than mine. Billy Baptist that I debated, his channel is not bigger than mine. I don't just debate big channels, but I do want to debate big channels because I. I believe I could beat all these big dum dums that's why, dummy.

[Ruslan]

I guess you call us heterodox, but within Christendom. Okay, so AB pointed that out. So this is Eastern Orthodox asking the, the, the, the, you know, Jay Dyer, the cult of this, the cult leader of this entire thing about cult. I don't, I don't mean literally cult. I just mean the way these guys act is very much.

[Jay Dyer]

No, you mean.

[Jim Bob]

See how he. See how he backpedals so fast?

[Jay Dyer]

He backpedals so fast because, you know.

[Jim Bob]

Yeah.

[Jay Dyer]

So we're a cult according to this liar. And he tells people to go to a messianic synagogue where they circumcise people. You can't make this up. This is kind of unreal.

[Jim Bob]

Yeah, right. Oh, well, further, Jay, he. You're in a cult, right? You're the cult leader. But he called. He does a call to action for Orthodox priests to go up against you. Oh, to cancel people away from listening to you.

[Jay Dyer]

He does a call to action to cancel everybody who's a quote, ortho bro. As if Orthodox priests give a. What this says.

[Jim Bob]

Yeah.

[Jay Dyer]

And so that's a cult tactic to call everyone because of, quote, bad behavior to cancel these people. But we're cults because we actually ask people to do public debates. What culture even does public debates? You guys are the ones that run from debate. You guys are the ones that say, I don't care about logic and fallacies. No cult teaches people basic logic. We do. Duh. We're the opposite of a cult.

[Ruslan]

Like the Dawa Bros is very much like the folks who are told, don't listen to other arguments. You know, only stay isolated into this little thing.

[Jay Dyer]

Who says don't listen to other arguments? You don't have any arguments. We're waiting for you to present them, dummy.

[Jim Bob]

I don't. This guy is so. This guy's a lunatic. Point. A cult would. Would hide from like, like Mormonism. They have a very low amount of people that can. That even try to defend their faith. They're actually. People are like, don't do it. You know, just, just shut up. Let's stay in. In our Mormon little town. And. But Orthodox people who are at least vocal online, we seek the. We seek the confrontation. We seek the. The examination of both our own view and other view. And we like to compare it to like, there's nothing you could ever find in a cult that went out into the world and put itself in a vulnerable position to weaken its leader. Right. Well, that's a total opposite of Orthodoxy.

[Jay Dyer]

Exactly. And far from hiding the arguments of other people we are begging you to do a public debate on the issues. This is so bullshit.

[Ruslan]

And anyone that challenges orthodoxy is a bad person. So he's. He.

[Jay Dyer]

No, anybody that challenges orthodoxy should be able to come present the arguments in a debate. This whole stupid hit piece here is a steering of the narrative. So he's just doing like media tactics to try to steer the narrative. It's like CNN level stuff. It's nothing to do with like formal debates. And because we all know this is not going to formally debate, he says

[Ruslan]

this to Jay Dyer. And this is Jay Dyer's response, like

[Andrew Wilson]

you think it actually happened? Now do you agree the martyrs are actually headed. And Jay says, I don't know what happened. I don't call them martyrs any more than I call Hezbollah leaders a martyr.

[Jay Dyer]

Yeah, exactly.

[Andrew Wilson]

So they're not martyrs because they weren't martyred for the true church. And they're basically in the same category as Hezbollah jihadis. You wouldn't call them humans.

[Jay Dyer]

So this read actually thinks that me just stating the orthodox position that we don't have martyrs outside of the church, which means canonically received and accepted as saints in the calendar. He thinks that's the same thing as a person who is a independent funnelist Baptist cult leader. Right, who says that you have to be in my IFB cult to be saved. By the way, again, we publicly reject the confessions of the heterodox groups. We don't make determinations on individuals salvation. And in the case of these Coptic martyrs, I said so called, it's entirely possible that they could be united to the mystical body through baptism of desire, something like that, baptism of blood. We don't know. But what I do know is that they're not going to be on the Orthodox calendar. That's what I said and that's what I meant. Of course they don't know anything about that and they don't care.

[Andrew Wilson]

Well, those guys martyrs because they're outside the church, just like these, these cops were.

[Ruslan]

Okay, now this is an important distinction to make because again, within Eastern Orthodoxy there seems to be some division on this particular issue.

[Jay Dyer]

This is also a fallacy, by the way. So what? Because there are ecumenists in the world of Orthodoxy, this somehow means that, oh you see Orthodox, they don't agree. Dude, they don't agree. Yeah, but all that shows is that people disagree. That doesn't prove Orthodoxy false.

[Ruslan]

I'm gonna say they've had some councils about this and I want to say 10 out of the 14 or 15 different. They wouldn't say Different Orthodox churches, but different, you know, Roman, the Romanians, the Russians, a good chunk of them are actually becoming more ecumenical that somebody even

[Jay Dyer]

say there were some councils about this. What? Where were the ecumenical. Where. Where were the ecumenist councils, Ruslan?

[Ruslan]

Churches, but different, you know, Roman, the Romanian.

[Jay Dyer]

Let's make sure. I heard what he said there. Let's go back.

[Ruslan]

I want to say they've had some councils about this, and I want to say 10 out of the 14 or 15 different. They wouldn't say different Orthodox.

[Jay Dyer]

So according to Ruslan, There were some 10 of the jurisdictions that were doing ecumenist councils. Okay, what are those, Ruslan? What are you even talking about?

[Ruslan]

Churches, but different, you know, Roman, he

[Jay Dyer]

probably means the Council of Crete, which is a big failure, didn't go anywhere. That must be what he's talking about.

[Ruslan]

Romanians, the Russians, a good chunk of them are actually becoming more ecumenical that some even say they might have their Vatican II moment where they.

[Jay Dyer]

Oh, interesting. I like how he's likening it to Vatican 2, which has proven our point. Right. So if it's like Vatican 2 and it's ecumenism, that's actually an argument in our favor, because our whole argument is that Vatican 2 departed from the tradition of the church. So Ruslan is indirectly disproving Nova, sort of Catholicism, too. Did you want to say something, Jim?

[Jim Bob]

Yeah. I don't know. I mean, based on his reasoning, his criterion for. For division than pretty much like the entirety of the early church and keeping it in. In one piece throughout the ages, he has to say, like, it was divided the whole time, right. That, like, he. How could he go back with this argument back to the beginning of the church and everything that followed? How could he. How could he trust any of that based on this one thing that. That people disagreed on stuff I just don't understand.

[Jay Dyer]

Well, again, not only do these individuals themselves not know basic logical fallacies, they actually are trusting as well that emotional appeals will score a lot better with their audience than actual logical argumentation and church history and theology.

[Jim Bob]

Which is true, right?

[Jay Dyer]

Exactly true.

[Jim Bob]

Actually true. Yeah.

[Jay Dyer]

So from a tactics perspective, this was actually smart of Rujelan to do this level type of appeal because he has a. He has a audience. So here we have, for example, in the Niceno cosmopolitan creed, you have the statement, we confess one holy Catholic apostolic Church. That's in the nice, you know, constable creed. And when we look at the people who compose that creed at Constantinople 1, if we look at the Cappadocians, then we look at the Theology for the succeeding centuries. The way that that was understood was you believe in baptismal regeneration and you believe in a visible institutional entity, the Orthodox Catholic Church. Right. And Rome, by the way, agrees that that was the perspective for the first thousand years. Right. So accepting the post Novus Ordo, the Latin Church, even though we think they were in schism, even the Latin papal Church up until Vatican II agreed that for the first thousand years of the church, yes, it was absolutely the case that there was one visible institutional body that makes up what the one holy Catholic Apostolic Church is. Those are the four marks, Right? No rap church existed. There is no rap church that has the four marks.

[Ruslan]

Acknowledge that folks who are outside the church can still experience salvation. But there are more of these hardliners, and unfortunately, the face of the ortho bros are the more hardliners. If you're not Eastern Orthodox, you're not a Christian. You don't have salvation. Okay? So it's a big mess internally within their own.

[Jay Dyer]

So this is another lie. We never made the determination of individuals that they cannot ever be in some way united to the mystical body. We don't know people's destinies. What we know is that their public confessions in those religions are heterodox and we have a duty to tell them to become Orthodox. So, but I mean, of course this dude is not ever going to care

[Ruslan]

about nuance ranks and the overlap with the patriarch in Russia. One of the patriarchs in Russia who's a billionaire in business with Putin has a lot of overlap with the Russian government.

[Jay Dyer]

Oh, here we go. And by the way, this explains too, why when I went on his stream, he started trying to grill me, implying and insinuating that I had some connection to Russia because I go to Rokor and we got. We. If you saw the podcast that we did, there was this weird section where he suddenly started wanting to defend the Ukraine and why Putin bad and all this kind of stuff. And I don't care about criticizing Putin. We. You can make a criticism who doesn't bother me at all. But he wanted to turn it into a pro NATO thing, which makes me think, why the hell does this dude care about NATO? But I also recall, I think he had from his Armenian heritage, there is some issue with Russia which leads to some sort of. I don't know if it goes back to the Cold War or whatever, but then it goes back to political animosity that his Armenian heritage has with Soviets perhaps. And that's why he's immediately turning it into a. If you Go watch our podcast. There's a section where he starts trying to defend NATO. And we have about a 10, 20 minute argument about whether or not NATO was the source of the provocation against Russia, which I think that it was whether. And I don't have a problem. Like I would criticize Putin, for example. You know, there's all he's bringing in, his own type of technocratic stuff. Putin has a too positive attitude of Islam in, in terms of Moscow. Right. That kind of stuff. That's fine. Make those criticisms. But how does that make me somehow, you know, linked to Russia or tied to Russia? So these liars are going to keep doing the same old thing that they've always tried to do. By the way, when Ridvon converted supposedly immediately, what he did start defending the Ukraine. Remember when he told Father Michael Lill and Father Whiteford and others that there was no persecution Orthodox church in the Ukraine. And after all these priests called out Ridvan, he had to back down and admit he was wrong. So. But why are these people automatically de facto defending all the CIA narratives? That's suspicious to me.

[Ruslan]

A lot of these guys are coming out of the Russian Orthodox side of the church.

[Jay Dyer]

Ooh, ooh, big bad Russian Orthodox. But by the way, does he not realize that most of the Antiochians who have a connection to the Middle east are also not Zionists, you dummy. It's not just Russians. What are you talking about? And Rokor is still very small in the United States, so there are plenty of Serbs, there are plenty of Romanians. There are plenty of people all over the Orthodox Church who are not ecumenists. But he wants to tie it into the political angle because he knows his evangelical audience doesn't know anything about geopolitics. So they're just going to believe the news that Russia bad, Putin is the new Hitler. All this nonsense.

[Ruslan]

Greeks are chill. You know, other folks are chill, but it's the Russian Orthodox. Oddly enough, my family, you know, my mom is Russian Ukrainian. She was adopted by an Armenian family.

[Jay Dyer]

And so, ah, there's the root of it. There's a Ukrainian angle to Ruslan. That's why he is defending Ukraine. And Zelensky, go watch our podcast where he. So here's this re who defends Zinsky and he's trying to turn it into basically this 32 minute video is throw in any dirt, Throw any dirt against the wall that you can come up with to make it stick for his. Sounds like.

[Jim Bob]

Yeah, it sounds like Jay. He just recently went over to mommy's house. She cooked him a dinner and gave him an earful. He's just, he's just remembering some of it.

[Jay Dyer]

Yeah, it's like, yeah, literally throw anything against the wall, Find any dirt, find this old tweet, which is a nothing burger, throw it against the wall. Dyers kgb. I mean, he's running with like the lowest tier too. Like, dude, you got to do better ops research than this, bro. This is weak.

[Ruslan]

This is all very interesting overlap with the corrupt side of the Russian Orthodox particularly that's in business and in bed with.

[Jay Dyer]

By the way, how does he know that Kirill is a billionaire? Who, who is this from? The New York Times. I mean, did you go to rap church that asked for a thousand dollars or $10,000 from your congregate? So, and the source of the supposed. I mean, I don't know what his finances are, but the accusation that Kirill is a billionaire, I mean, what's the proof of that? Right? This is just assertions. And I guarantee it's coming out of like the New York Times and other

[Ruslan]

CIA mouthpieces, Vladimir Putin and all the issues with Ukraine.

[Jim Bob]

Positive. Like he, he's like the. In the billionaire who's an ecumenist.

[Jay Dyer]

Yeah, it's like, well, wait a minute. Yeah, hold on. So wouldn't that be like, wouldn't he be like a top player in your, in your scheme? If Kirill is an ecumenist with who's a billionaire, then he's like mastered wrapped. He's raps. He's mastered business church. So he should be a hero to

[Ruslan]

you not being in communion with other Eastern Orthodox churches. So they, you know, they blame.

[Jay Dyer]

He would be the first saint of rap church. Right.

[Ruslan]

They point out issues within the non denominator space, the Protestant space. And it's like, man, you have churches that are fighting right now that aren't in communion with each other.

[Jay Dyer]

Yeah, dummy. This is the low tier. This was Michael Lofton's line of argument. You got problems in your church too, dog. Yeah, the argument is not we don't have problems, you do, therefore ours is true. The argument is you don't have a church at all. You have no conception of church. So it matters largely what the problem is, not just is there any problem? Of course everybody has problems. Every church has phonies. Every church has corruption. The question is, is your issue a system level defeater? Right. A corrupt patriarch, of which there have been many is not a system level defeater. For Orthodoxy, having no doctrine of the church is a system level defeater for your grift.

[Ruslan]

That won't even acknowledge thing for in

[Jim Bob]

favor of whether it's at the level of the social stuff that goes on, like policing orthodox people and how they act and how they talk to how the church operates in general. Isn't he arguing from some for some normative structure itself? But, but then he's denying it. He's doing both at the same time.

[Jay Dyer]

Yeah. Wouldn't there have to be a normative structure to control or to try to corral the corruption in the church sacraments?

[Ruslan]

Okay, now, you guys could do the research on your own for all this stuff, but this is all very, very public information.

[Jay Dyer]

How come you didn't cite any of it? You just asserted it. Right. Like Kirill is a billionaire. Well, where's the proof of that?

[Ruslan]

That is scandalizing to the church as far as I'm concerned. And they're upset that, you know, Christians don't want to disclose denominations or Avery or David Wood doesn't want to.

[Jay Dyer]

No, that's not. We're not upset because they won't say where they go. They won't say what they're defending. He's got to know that, like, this is so low tier, dude. I, I keep just saying to. It's just sad how little they expect of their audience. They're so cynical that they know that the more irrational and the more fallacious and the more emotional appeals they do that will actually resonate with their audience.

[Ruslan]

Stop everything they're doing in debate who is the one true church?

[Andrew Wilson]

And then what?

[Jim Bob]

Joy Behar on the View. Talk about Trump. But you're. But you're Trump.

[Jay Dyer]

Like, yeah, it's Trump. Ruslan has the equivalent of Trump derangement syndrome. Exactly.

[Andrew Wilson]

One more here. So this is from Andrew Wilson and I. I want people to understand, like, what these guys actually believe about people outside their church. So this is a. Yeah, but at

[Jay Dyer]

least we believe something. We can't get what you believe. But you won't even say Andrew Wilson.

[Andrew Wilson]

Wilson. And he's got two memes there. So the meme on the left was one that was sent to him to describe what's going on with ortho bros. And then he fixed it. So I'll show you the.

[Ruslan]

Anybody, go check out this stream with David Wood. He sat down with Dr. Tony, who went over and, you know, made along one second.

[Jim Bob]

Jay. I just want to point out again, they go in between. I'm not attacking orthodoxy. I'm attacking ortho bros. But this is an orthodox position about martyrs. Right? This is not Andrew Wilson and Jay Dyer like personal, like you didn't conjure this yourself, you know, when they were talking about that. So they keep switching. They keep switching. I'm. No, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not attacking Eastern Orthodoxy. The, the, the theology. Well, I'm attacking Andrew Wilson and, and,

[Jay Dyer]

yeah, but, but Tony Costa's whole podcast is actually against Orthodox theology, right? And look, look behind Tony Costa. He's got a menorah. Why, why does a Calvinist have a menorah in the background? Can you guys see that? Are you noticing a pattern? And by the way, Tony Costa asked me to debate in 2017 or 18. I said yes and then he backed out because I was too mean, quote unquote. These are the absolute coward. They're the most footed cowards on the Internet. Dude, these people are so snaky, cowardly, pathetic. They don't have any actual argumentation. The only strategy here is make as much fuss about ortho bro bad anything to avoid an actual debate. And they learn nothing from the Roman Catholics who did this exact same strategy. Now, a little side note, I don't know if this is true because I don't follow the drama, but according to Scam Shamu, Michael Lofton is so tired of the papacy and Pope explaining that he's actually all he does on his channel according to Scam Shamu is about the Israel conflict. So basically Sam Shamu alleges that Lon is on the edge of agnosticism and atheism because he's so let down by the Papacy in the last year or so because all it is is political drama streams. Now he doesn't care about apologetics. Isn't that interesting? Because Michael Lofton for the last several years had the exact same strategy as these goobers. These goobers are doing what Lofton did. And guess what? It's going to be the exact same trajectory when you defend incessantly nonsense and use this as a deflective technique to not actually address the issues or to do an actual debate. What ends up happening is you will burnout. You will go off into the irrelevant sphere. You will become totally irrelevant like Lofton has, because you're defending the indefensible case

[Ruslan]

against Eastern Orthodoxy that I thought was, was very good.

[Jay Dyer]

Oh, wait a minute. I thought you weren't against the Orthodoxy, was just against the ortho bros. But here he is promoting a live stream against Eastern Orthodoxy itself. So proving cleave and made by Jim Bob's point that they shift back and forth between I'm not Against Orthodox. It's just the evil ortho bros. By the way, here's a 10 point refutation

[Ruslan]

of orthodoxy and you come to your own conclusions on some of this sort of stuff.

[Andrew Wilson]

Actual memes here. This is the first one that was sent to him. Okay, so in this one, an unbelievers.

[Jay Dyer]

So look at this. This is how. This is so ridiculous. They're arguing about memes like leftists bitching about memes and none of them will do a formal debate. Who cannot see through this. They're arguing about memes.

[Jim Bob]

The, the crazy part is the meme itself exposes what we're trying to get them to. To defend. Like they didn't even understand that this me. The meme correction that Andrew did was spot on. And they're like, oh, this is the worst. You're like, that's literally what we're saying, you guys. You're not actually saving the person.

[Jay Dyer]

Exactly.

[Andrew Wilson]

You're not saying, help me, she's on fire.

[Jim Bob]

Go anywhere.

[Andrew Wilson]

And a Christian runs up and says,

[Jay Dyer]

yeah, but see, that's the irony here is that the guy with the water hose is like pulling up and being like, yeah, but I. In other words, there's no water in the hose because you're not telling them where to go. Just go to Jesus, bro. Imagine being an Adiq Muslim who actually does want to convert, like Jim Bob said. And your response is, here's a 2000 page, extremely difficult book. Good luck.

[Jim Bob]

Yeah, exactly.

[Jay Dyer]

I mean, what are you talking about?

[Andrew Wilson]

Don't worry. Here comes the water of life. So this is a. This is meant to describe preaching the gospel to the person, everyone. And then he finds out what the.

[Jay Dyer]

Yeah, we don't agree or believe that you have the gospel. You're just assuming that anti Islamianity is the gospel. That is what is in question. So come prove that. Oh, they can't.

[Andrew Wilson]

And it's. The hose isn't working. And it's because an ortho bro has.

[Ruslan]

First, let's settle with a real firefighter is between the two of us now.

[Jay Dyer]

Again, he thought this was so funny.

[Andrew Wilson]

Wilson's response. He said he fixed it. He said he fixed. He fixed the meme. So here's his meme. It's an unbeliever, an unbelievers on fire. And then a fireman runs up and you see it's kind of small there, but the fireman's hat says Protestant Christian. Protestant Christian is a Protestant. And the Protestant Christian is actually trying to pour gasoline, trying to put out the fire with gasoline.

[Jay Dyer]

And then it's accurately. That's an accurate assessment. So hey, flee Islam. It's a terrible gnostic Talmudic judaizing section. Where should I go? To the Talmudic Judaizing sect across the street? To the synagogue that you send people to. So here is again, Ruslan sends people to this circumcising synagogue. This should be the end of all of it right here.

[Jim Bob]

This.

[Jay Dyer]

There should be no more. This shouldn't even be a debate after this. But again, the people in these spheres are so dumb that they don't even see a problem with sending young dong to a circumstance.

[Ruslan]

So Launching New Coke 1985 is semi sweeter recipe that was more similar to Pepsi.

[Jim Bob]

However, it's all emotion to this. He just totally doesn't get the point of it. And he goes right into just like moralizing.

[Jay Dyer]

That's because he doesn't understand actually how to debate. He thinks that debate is just what he's doing where you just try to present the best smear tactics because it's all adiq anyway for his audience.

[Andrew Wilson]

The orthodox guy who unhooks it to keep the Protestant Christian from pouring gasoline on this person.

[Ruslan]

I mean, what amazing, what amazing heroes the ortho bro.

[Jay Dyer]

What amazing. You're amazing bro. It's all just emo are what amazing heroes.

[Ruslan]

I mean, if it wasn't for them, who else would be going on all these streams and calling all these women whores? Who else would be the most insufferable people on the Internet?

[Jay Dyer]

So wait a minute, that's not all. Andrew, Does Anders just go on streams and call people? Right? If you go through the total catalog of the countless times that he has been on whatever podcast and debated and argued with countless feminists, the instances of that actually happening is very small. And by the way, some women are actually dummy. So why would it be wrong to say when many women actually self identify as to say that? Secondly, the ortho bros mistreating women is very minimal compared to what is actually going on out there when you look at real sins and real problems. Let me give an example. What's worse? An ortho bro being mean on X. And by the way, anybody can create a profile who even knows if real ortho bros are this. I'll give you an I saw a profile the other day. It was supposedly an ortho bro literally just created no comments. The only comment was it's time to legalize grape dude. That's not all that's who anybody could do that. That could be Gavin's sock pro soccer. I don't know that it is. I'm just saying. Allegedly. It could. It's a. It's a joke.

[Jim Bob]

Joke.

[Jay Dyer]

But compare that to Gavin Ortland's church hiring a known Skittles pastor secretly married to a man. They knew it. They still hired him. And then only after people called it out did they say, okay, it's time for him to be dismissed. Now, what's worse? And where is. Where is Rusline calling out Gavin Skittles church? Oh, he didn't call, by the way.

[Jim Bob]

I'll just add that it says a lot that the only fans is more willing to debate her view than you are.

[Jay Dyer]

Oh. Oh, that was a sick burn right there. Exactly.

[Ruslan]

Who else would be coddling next to the gripers and the racist who dropping the N word unironically?

[Jay Dyer]

Oh, oh, there we go. So we racist over in this sphere. Do we racist because they're dropping the N word, dog. Oh, Ruse line. The social justice warrior of 2026.

[Ruslan]

Heroes are these guys, man.

[Jay Dyer]

They're really fighting Ruse on you. A dumb. How's that?

[Ruslan]

The.

[Jay Dyer]

The.

[Ruslan]

Against the real evils of the world, which is Christians putting out fires and doing all the evangelizing.

[Jay Dyer]

The real evils of the world. How about gay church that you never called out that you're best buddies with?

[Ruslan]

Oh, and by the way, translating all the church fathers and the patristic fathers for you guys and getting you guys copies of the Bible. Who?

[Jim Bob]

What?

[Jay Dyer]

Translating the church fathers for you guys. What are you talking about, you dummy?

[Jim Bob]

The.

[Jay Dyer]

The Greeks already had the translation for centuries. The Orthodox already had the church fathers translated natively into Greek, you dummy. Oh, but because an Anglican translated the Philip Shaft set, this guy is a real dude.

[Ruslan]

Else could do this than the ortho bros, huh? Yes. So this is. This is. This is how they view this now.

[Jay Dyer]

Again, that was the weirdest, like, flex ever. Because Philip Shaft translated the church father set as if there weren't Roman Catholic translations already of the church fathers before Philip.

[Ruslan]

Chef, I'm making the distinction because it seems like the vast majority of these Eastern Orthodox cities or regions are becoming more ecumenical, which I think is great, because I think these are stupid. Personally, I think these are stupid things.

[Jay Dyer]

This is a stupid argument anyway. That'd be like saying, well, many Western countries are becoming more gay, so I guess gay is good and it's winning, right?

[Ruslan]

I don't. Hey, real quick, whether you're Protestant, Orthodox, Catholic, or maybe you're not even sure what you are here is something that every follower of Jesus can lock arms on.

[Jay Dyer]

Oh, no, what's he trying to sell now? Let's see what his sales pitch is. I hope it's something good. Is it consulting with Ron's pastor, which cost $1,000 an hour for the full package on how to plant a church? And by the way, Rachel had a great idea. I bet you if you were a woman and you paid $1,000 to Ruslan's pastor on how to church plant, he would tell you how, as a woman to be a preacher in church plant. Somebody needs to test that out to see if they will. So you know that Ruzon's pastor charges like a thousand dollars for the full package to consult on how to church plant. And Rachel had a good idea that a woman should call and pay that money to see if they will teach a woman how to preach and teach at a church plant. Because I bet you for a thousand dollars they will.

[Jim Bob]

That would be amazing.

[Jay Dyer]

It would be. In fact, I may have to start, I may start offering these people money to debate because number one, then it will show that they're grifters because they actually will debate. If I, if I offer them like two or three thousand dollars to do a debate, like, will that make them actually do the debate? And then if they will do the debate, they'll show that they're grifters and then they'll also, they'll lose. Right? So I'm gonna, I can tempt them with the, their vice, the nature to pile on and to just, oh, here's Ruslan. He's going to respond to being called a grifter because he's been called a grifter before. So let's see. His response to this.

[Ruslan]

Harass people online has led me to actually learn something from.

[Jay Dyer]

Oh, harass. Right now he claims he's being harassed cuz people are calling him a grifter. You're not being harassed, dummy.

[Ruslan]

Dire. A valuable lesson, which is man how to use that black button on X. It's, it's become one of my favorite pastimes. It's just a block.

[Jay Dyer]

He learned that from me. This is one true, true statement here. He learned to block people from me.

[Ruslan]

Ortho bros on X. Because the utter brain rot that came out. And one of the things that came out on X was we talked about this before, prior to 2021, 2022. I, I, when I started making primarily Christian content, I discovered Mike Winger, like 2019. I was making marketing videos for Christians who are trying to become full time with their art or with their businesses or fill in the blank. Okay? And a lot of these clips of me have been clipped out of context when I'm speaking to marketing gurus like Random Sean on trying to help Christians learn how to build an audience, monetize an audience, convert.

[Jay Dyer]

No, no, you don't. You misunderstood. We always said that it was always your scheme to create business. Church, dummy. Let's play this. This is it right here.

[Ruslan]

I got 200,000, bro.

[Jay Dyer]

I got the following.

[Ruslan]

I got 28,000. I got 200,000 on Tik Tok 223000. 500,000. How do I monetize these people?

[Jim Bob]

You know what I mean?

[Jay Dyer]

How do I monetize these people? And through covetousness shall they withment now belong.

[Ruslan]

Not what what is. You got to figure out what. What is your product gonna be? What can you sell people? That's the actual question, right? So we could pussyfoot around and we could say, oh, like, I want to have a ministry, and I want to do this and I want to do that.

[Jim Bob]

Right?

[Ruslan]

But what we're really asking is, like, how do I build a business?

[Jay Dyer]

That sounds to me like you're. That sounds to me so explicit. Yeah. Ruslan, I don't think you're telling the truth here, because that sounds like you're actually saying business. Church, bro.

[Jim Bob]

Yeah, he actually said the distinction. The real question. He didn't say the real question is how do we keep our ministry alive and get people to salvation, though they don't have access to that. Really. So he said it explicitly. He's pretending. No, no. I'm just helping Christians build their business for their homes, for the. For their. So they can pay for the plant, their church, you know, coaching session. It's like he's now trying to be pious about it.

[Jay Dyer]

Yeah. And here, helping Christians, here's his pastor again with two thousand dollar a month consult consultation calls on how to start a church and how to church plant. In other words, it's Don lapree's marketing scheme. Dummy. All Ruslan did was take the marketing scheme and apply it to the church. The church that they set up, that they do is a marketing scheme. Allah, Ruslan Peter Drucker style marketing. Duh. That's the point. Dummy. And you admitted it right here when you said this money.

[Ruslan]

And you got to figure out what. What is your product gonna be? What can you sell people? That's the actual question, right? So we could pussyfoot around and we could say, oh, like, I want to have a ministry and I want to do this, and I want to do that. Right. But what we're really asking is like, how do I build a business? I don't really care about how many followers I have. I need those metrics to an extent for the. For the credibility of them. But I'm more thinking, what is my bank account going to look like?

[Jay Dyer]

This is a marketing. He's so shameless. This is a marketing. Who decided, I'll take all of this and do business church. And now here's his defense people so

[Ruslan]

they can make a living and sustain themselves. Okay, now this is. All these videos are back up. So one of the videos has been clipped is me talking to brand man Sean, who's a marketing guy, actually talking about brand man Sean on my book Godly Ambition. You should go get that. It's a great book. You we talk about.

[Jay Dyer]

He even promotes the book. In the middle of this Sean.

[Ruslan]

And I'm sitting there talking because I have conversation.

[Jim Bob]

If I remember correctly, the dude he's talking to got a little bit weirded out and pushed back a little bit. And he was like, yeah, I remember watching that.

[Jay Dyer]

We played that clip. Yeah, we played that clip on the other stream, the one he's talking about

[Ruslan]

a community of Christian rappers who are doing good music, but they don't know how to build audiences. Have a clip where I say, hey, I got this many followers. How do I monetize these people? That's been.

[Jay Dyer]

Yeah, but you were a Christian rapper and it didn't go anywhere, and then you turned that into business church. That's what we're saying. We're saying that you didn't make it as a rapper because you saw it and then you just decided to become business church. Rap. Rap, man.

[Ruslan]

Flip. As if I'm talking about monetizing these people, not a Christian artist who's selling Christian music. But how do I monetize these people that I'm selling the gospel to now? I think if.

[Jay Dyer]

How do I monetize these people? Selling the gospel to selling the gospel. Let's hear that again. Let's hear that again. Let me. Let me. It's going too fast. Let me go back to normal speed. And then I might go to slow, slow motion too.

[Ruslan]

Music. But how do I monetize these people that I'm selling the gospel to now? I think if you are.

[Jim Bob]

Oh,

[Jay Dyer]

ruse runs again. Can't help but spill the beans. And this is how all fraudsters are. They can't help at times but to say what's really going on? Let's do it in slow mo. This is going to be fun.

[Ruslan]

Have a clip where I say, hey, I got this many followers. How do I monetize these people? That's been clipped as if I'm talking about monetizing these people. Not a Christian artist who's selling Christian music. But how do I monetize these people that I'm selling the gospel to? Now, I think if you are confused on what we do here, we don't sell the gospel. The gospel is free. It's available for everyone, everywhere you can walk into.

[Jay Dyer]

Oh, wait, wait a minute. Which one is it?

[Jim Bob]

He was doing backpedaling. He's always doing little band aid work, isn't he? Whoopsie.

[Jay Dyer]

So from a metric standpoint, if what really mattered was the gospel, wouldn't you care about the following over the money? So you, you, you saw what he just said right there. He said, I don't actually care about the following number. Well, but wait a minute. If it was about getting the free gospel out, wouldn't that be more important than the monetary metrics?

[Ruslan]

Almost any church in America get a free copy. But we've been making videos and merchandise and all this sort of stuff. And I've been doing this as a public Christian. So this clip gets weaponized against me every six months. This comes up. It's utterly in bad faith. There's also all sorts of other accusations, attacks on my church, so on, so forth. So someone posted this clip and I

[Jay Dyer]

reply, he just noticed. He hand waves quote, attacks on his church. You talking about stupid ass rap church that charges $2000 to consult with your pastor. Notice how he just hand waved that? Right? Attacks on my church. This dummy says it in the clip, he gives it away, and now he's

[Ruslan]

got a backpedal with one of the screenshots of seemingly orthodox churches charging for the sacrament of baptism. Simply pointing out, hey, if you're going to attack me for helping Christians.

[Jay Dyer]

Yeah, but Ruslan, this has been addressed and you know that it wasn't charging for the sacrament of baptism. This. You've been corrected on this multiple times. So now he's just straight up lying, right? Because he keeps pushing this. But would you, Ruzan, would you care to correct us on Pastor Jeff Moore's deep dive consulting for $2,000 a month on how to church plant? Church plant, more like yalls. A bunch of church plants for reals

[Ruslan]

dog rappers seven years ago, six years ago, figure out how to monetize their audiences.

[Jay Dyer]

And by the way, the fact that you were working with Christian rappers seven years ago is actually worse. For you, dummy. Because you were trying to tell them how to get paid with religion seven years ago. That's basically admitting. Yo, I've been in this Griff game for almost a decade, son. He's admitting it again.

[Ruslan]

And. And not see the plank in your own eye of you guys seemingly charging for the sacrament of baptism.

[Jim Bob]

What a snake, dude. He admits.

[Jay Dyer]

So he knows he's been corrected. He knows he's been corrected. He knows he's been corrected on this. But the way to keep using this fake, fake bunch of moralizing is to say seemingly exactly.

[Ruslan]

Oh, man, that.

[Jay Dyer]

That's like. That's why you say allegedly in media, so you don't get sued. Right?

[Jim Bob]

Yeah.

[Ruslan]

As are beyond cooked right now. Do I think every Orthodox church is charging for baptisms? No. Do I think. Do I think this is a normative process in their church? No.

[Jay Dyer]

Ruslan, the difference also here, let's say for the sake of argument, that there was an Orthodox church that was actually charging for the sacrament of baptism. The irony is that what your dumb church does is 10 times worse. I don't mean Protestantism as a quote, church. It's not a church. Your rap church is ten times worse, dummy. That's the accusation.

[Ruslan]

But the point is, hey, we're helping Christians figure out a way to make a living for themselves. Figure out a way to provide for their families who are artists. Six years ago. I don't talk about this stuff as much anymore. And I may.

[Jay Dyer]

Yeah, because it's embarrassing. That's why you don't talk about it.

[Ruslan]

Yeah.

[Jim Bob]

Because it didn't work.

[Jay Dyer]

Yeah. Let's see. Because you weren't. Yeah. Because you didn't. You were not actually as successful, quote, Christian marketing guru. You realize, if I really want to get paid, I got to start a church online. Walk. This is what you said again.

[Ruslan]

I like shoes and I like money. You got to figure out what. What is your product going to be? What can you sell people? That's the actual question. Right. So we could pussyfoot around and we could say, oh, like, I want to have a ministry and I want to do this and I want to do that.

[Jim Bob]

Right.

[Ruslan]

But what we're really asking is, like, how do I build a business?

[Jay Dyer]

So he's defending trying to monetize dumb Christian rappers. He uses the same strategy when he went to miss into business church. And now he's got to try to make sense of all that. He's got to try to spin the narrative like CNN or something to say, look, I was just trying to help people get I was just trying to feed the kids, bro.

[Jim Bob]

Yeah, yeah, tell dude, you do so you.

[Jay Dyer]

So you want kids to go hungry? You want kids to go hungry in the hood.

[Ruslan]

Some comments that I've apologized for, particularly the FU comment, you know, and I'm clearly in a different studio. I looked.

[Jay Dyer]

Oh, well, you got a different studio now, right? So it don't count. Listen, if I got a different studio. So when I go back to Florida, if I'm in my Florida room doing a live stream, everything I said prior doesn't count. According to Ruslan, I'm in a different studio now. It don't count.

[Jim Bob]

Exactly. Control Z dog.

[Ruslan]

Particularly the FU comment, you know, and I'm clearly in a different studio.

[Jay Dyer]

I didn't even know Ruzon said a four letter word. Look at this. Look at this dumb hypocrite. He said fu and now. Oh, the ortho bros is bad. And by the way, he's in a different studio. If you say a cuss word, just get. Go to. You got to get a different studio to make up for it.

[Ruslan]

Their families who are artists. Six years ago, I don't talk about this stuff as much anymore. And I made some comments that I've apologized for, particularly the FU comment, you know, and I'm clearly in a different studio. I look totally different. I'm wearing a beanie.

[Jay Dyer]

Wearing a beanie.

[Ruslan]

What is this?

[Jim Bob]

Dude?

[Jay Dyer]

Dude.

[Jim Bob]

What?

[Ruslan]

I'm clearly.

[Jay Dyer]

So this.

[Jim Bob]

That was a different sim.

[Jay Dyer]

This. Read this. It's talking about. Yo, I had different downloadable content skins on back then, dog. I'm different, bro. I got a different costume, man.

[Jim Bob]

Dude, I. I had like, Jordans. Like, they were good. Don't get me wrong. They were. But they're different ones. I got like, new ones from like, you know, dude, total.

[Jay Dyer]

Yo, back then.

[Jim Bob]

I don't even wear that style anymore.

[Jay Dyer]

Yo, back then I had an orange beanie. I was wearing jorts, Michael Jordan. I got different drip down, dog. I'm a different person.

[Ruslan]

This is the dog.

[Jim Bob]

I didn't have this, this arm sleeve yet.

[Jay Dyer]

I didn't have this green tattoo right here. A slimer. I got a slimer tattoo on my right arm. Don't see that slimer right there. I'm a different person, bro.

[Ruslan]

The peak of leftist brain rot of trying to take when leftists would take stuff from people's Twitter accounts, dude.

[Jay Dyer]

Leftist brain rot. He thinks what we're doing is leftist brainwashed, dude. You all have mastered the SPLC leftist technique of immediately saying the ortho bros are a dangerous culture. It's going to end darkly. There's a dark cloud above the ORFO bros, and it's going to end bad. All this stupid leftist bullshit talking point. But we're the leftist tactics.

[Ruslan]

Yeah, sure, 10 years ago, something stupid they said when they were younger and then taking it.

[Jay Dyer]

This ain't 10 years ago, dummy. This is like 2020 era.

[Ruslan]

Repurposing it and literally canceling people to try that. They try to do this to Kevin Hart. This is what they tried to do to me. And it fake.

[Jim Bob]

Look, he's admitting it's bad. Like, you got to choose, dude. You can just say, look, that sounded really bad. You know, I was. I was after money. I was after something else. I could see how that's not a good look. It sounded wrong. I wasn't motivated by the right things then. No, he doesn't say. He defends it. But then he's saying, oh, they're bringing up stuff that's old. Well, does it make you look bad or not? Like what? Which is it, bro?

[Jay Dyer]

And it's not that old, by the way. In Covid, he was defending pro trans pro skittles Andrew Yang. He was all. He was part of Yang Gang. So that's not that long ago. I'm in a new studio, dog. I got a different. I got a broccoli afro now, dog. I'm. I'm straight up. I'm reformed.

[Ruslan]

Killed. Why? Because they. Again, gross miscalculation. If I'm a grifter and Avery's a grifter and David Woods a grifter and IPs a grifter, then that word loses meaning.

[Jay Dyer]

Only if they are not, in fact, grifters. But if they are in fact, grifters, it doesn't work. It doesn't lose meaning.

[Ruslan]

It doesn't mean anything. Because I think the audience is sophisticated and smart enough to say, hey, wait a minute.

[Jay Dyer]

He thinks he knows his audiences, and that's why he's pandering to every emotional appeal.

[Ruslan]

Ruslan's not selling us the gospel. Ruslan is reacting to commentary. He's having conversations with different people. He's putting on live events. He's selling quality merch.

[Jay Dyer]

Ruslan. Ruslan charges a thousand dollars or more around that to meet him in person. But he ain't selling the gospel, bro. By the way, get tickets to his live event.

[Ruslan]

Books, prayer journals. It's not the same as monetizing the gospel.

[Jay Dyer]

Wait, but how? How is it not when you were telling the Christian rappers how to monetize the gospel right here?

[Ruslan]

So within all of that gross miscalculation and what they've done is now Wood is ready to debate the one true church he's getting.

[Jay Dyer]

He's prepping to what they gross miscalculation because David Wood, who just learned this the other day is going to debate it. I mean, does he think that we are afraid of debating David Wood when David Wood just learned these things from Tony Costa who's a done is.

[Ruslan]

They've divided themselves amongst themselves and now people are pointing out, wait a minute, you're throwing stones from a glass house. Okay, now you have guys like JP and Mohler and the Christian king that are doing call in streams.

[Jim Bob]

Is that really, really like what they are going down to the bottom of the bottom, aren't they?

[Jay Dyer]

Yeah. The dumbest lowest tier on the Internet is who he's got to prop up because they don't have anybody else. And so they're going to prop up the lowest tier and they think this is going to end well for them

[Ruslan]

that are saying, hey, like let's go out of this debate.

[Jay Dyer]

And I by the way, no, no, nobody's gonna call into those retail streams. If there's going to be a formal debate, it will be on MDD and Alex Thorne will debate JP or Mahler or whatever those read. And I guarantee I'm gonna bet money that that won't ever even happen. None of these dudes is going to do a formal debate. They're read, they don't know how they, they don't know what the word colloquial means.

[Jim Bob]

Colloquial.

[Jay Dyer]

Colloquial colloquialism, bro. They don't know what the

[Jim Bob]

feel.

[Ruslan]

Okay, I think this is, this, this sucks from one standpoint because from my vantage point there's a difference. When people have permissible practices like say you want to venerate icons and then saying those permissible practices are dogmatic.

[Jay Dyer]

And yeah, we don't care what you think should and shouldn't be dogma. No, but nobody cares. We don't care you what you think is best and should be Adiaphra. Nobody over here cares what you think.

[Ruslan]

Everyone must submit to your practices. And by dogmatic these things are not negotiable.

[Jay Dyer]

By the way, you're being dogmatic that everybody has to not submit to that. Being dogmatic, you idiot. You're being dogmatic about your non dogmatism idiot.

[Ruslan]

Okay, they're not negotiables. So can you let bygones be bygones? Sure. But if everything is an attack of dumb, sloppy Bad arguments against Protestants. And that's how you're monetizing your audience, by the way, is sitting around and debating normie Protestants.

[Jay Dyer]

Okay, See how he thinks now he's lying.

[Jim Bob]

It's all through his marketings of monetization.

[Jay Dyer]

Yeah, his first thought was the model. What model is Dyer using? Oh, it's only to debate low tier idiots. No, I've debated all the top Muslims, I've debated the top atheists, I've debated the top Roman Catholics multiple times over. So it's a lie to act like all I do is debate low tier people. It's a call in show where anybody can call in and debate. And now he's acting like we got you, dude, because we got my little army a little is going to do the same thing. Yeah, so what? Nobody's gonna call in because it ain't funny and it ain't entertaining.

[Ruslan]

And then people say, yeah, well, we're gonna do that too. We're match that energy. Okay.

[Jay Dyer]

And we're going to match the marketing strategy according to him, right? Yeah. How many views are they getting?

[Ruslan]

Right?

[Jay Dyer]

All they gotta. All they do is stream about me every day to get interviews.

[Ruslan]

Guys that are younger than I am, guys that, you know, maybe don't have as many responsibilities as I do. And they're creating this.

[Jay Dyer]

Guys that have no responsibilities. Sitting in a damn empty ass apartment. Like JP Uncut with sitting in the. Sitting in the corner because he got time out with his blank ass apartment.

[Ruslan]

Entire new community of Protestant apologists. Okay?

[Jay Dyer]

A new community. Dude, these are the biggest reach on the planet. This is what he's got to prop up is these. This is awesome. Yes, please let those guys be your representative apologists. This is going to be awesome.

[Ruslan]

Essentially, David Wood being one of them. Gross miscalculation. And this is all happening on the back.

[Jay Dyer]

Dude, David Wood is not going to formally debate anybody on this topic. I guarantee you he won't. And if he does, it won't be anybody in our sphere. It won't be me, it won't be Jim Bob or alcohol Soren. He'll find, I don't know, some weak person. Or he'll probably debate a catechumen. And then, you know, that's because that's your strategy, right? That's the Ruslan marketing strategy. This genius over here, yo.

[Ruslan]

What?

[Jay Dyer]

We put a catechumen up against two apologists. Divide and conquer.

[Ruslan]

Drop of God logic. Being catapulted into mass success because of this Muhammad hijab situation. Them calling him a grifter and Then doing a a U turn and saying we're gonna oh by the way, go support God.

[Jay Dyer]

Logic's yeah, but Ruzan is too stupid to understand that both of those things could be true. I could criticize him on the basis of him being inconsistent with sending people to Messianic Judaizing, heretical synagogues, but also support the idea that he shouldn't be sued for putting up a live stream. In Ruslan's stupid mind, those things are mutually exclusive when obviously they're not.

[Ruslan]

Gofundme. Okay, utter miscalculations. I really don't think these guys are very smart or sophisticated. I think they think.

[Jay Dyer]

Really? Are you sure about that? I mean, we're over here having non stop laughs at you, you dumb wigger. We're literally every day. Does Ruslan not realize you want to talk about money? Ruslan, every stream I've done about you, I've made one to $1,500 in super chats per stream. So I don't know what you're talking about. You want to talk about money and marketing strategies? These people are not that smart. Also, if we're not that smart where we're stupid, why can't one of you just do a public formal debate with me and end me? It would be I'm stupid. It should be easy if I'm stupid to do a formal debate. Send your boy gave and root line over here. I mean gave gave in Ruslan. Gavin Ortland gave it. Gavin root lawn.

[Ruslan]

They're smart, but it's just a total failure on their part while dealing with, at the very, at the very least, optics issues regarding charging for the sacrament of baptism and calling guys like God, Logic and David again, lying again.

[Jay Dyer]

Nobody was charged for the sacrament baptism.

[Ruslan]

He keeps lying and IP grifters. This is, this couldn't be more poetic. And so yeah, if you're going to consens consistently hurl false and slanderous accusations against myself and friends of mine, guess what? There's going to be people that are going to say, okay, well two could play that game right now. Is that done in good faith? Is it not done? I don't know what people's motives and intentions are. And I think there are a lot of good Eastern Orthodox folks behind the scenes that are trying to figure this out. And in all of this, I think this is where the question comes down to which I think is really a question of faith. Can you have dogmatic views? Meaning dogmas are not up for negotiation. They're not up for negotiation. You don't get to pick and choose dogmas. Okay. Can you have dogmatic views?

[Jay Dyer]

Because orthodoxy here, notice what he said there. You don't get to pick and choose dogmas.

[Ruslan]

Yeah, things of dogma. If some of those dogmatic views are not in the primary sources, okay? And that's where these debates are about to start going, by the way. So all this attacking of sola scriptura, all this attacking of Protestants, the question becomes, can you have views like the intercession of the saints, which is a. There's a dogma. Can you have views like the veneration of icons, which is a dogma. Can you have that when you look at the anti Nicene Fathers. Okay, the, the, the.

[Jay Dyer]

Yeah, you dummy. They're in the primary sources. Sources you. And you're going to get destroyed when you actually debate these topics. Do you understand that we've already been through the stuff you're bringing up 10, 20 years ago, people on our side. Don't you think I already went through this as a Protestant converting to Catholicism in 2001 too? Yeah, I'm, I'm already on to this 20 years ago. Don't you think I went and read the Apostolic Fathers to see if they actually support this information? By the way, it's not just that. It's the Bible. The Bible is icono duel, dummy Fathers

[Ruslan]

that were writing before the Council of Nicaea. Can you look at the Scriptures and not see these dogmas in there and then make these dogmas that you must hold over all Christians everywhere. And if we don't agree with these dogs, then we're the ones.

[Jay Dyer]

Well, that just presupposes soul of scriptura, dummy. So what you think is in the primary sources in the Scriptures presupposes that the Scriptures alone are the primary. Primary sources. And you haven't proven that.

[Jim Bob]

Right.

[Ruslan]

That are lukewarm or university Christians and we don't have the fullness of the Church. And I would say a reasonable person if we're looking at the primary source, because if you're claiming a dogma, but those dogmas aren't the primary sources, we'll evaluate that and say, hey, yeah, you

[Jay Dyer]

haven't demonstrated that the Bible alone is the source and you've not demonstrated that they're not in the primary sources because we always argue that they are.

[Ruslan]

Now again, from my vantage point, I think that could be permissible actions and I think that there may have even been some Christians prior to the anti nice Fathers that had these practices, but that doesn't mean normative practices for all Christians. As dogmas.

[Jay Dyer]

So now he's going to admit and backtrack and say, there might be some evidence of iconography in a pre Nicene era. Oh, but wait a minute. So then you're moving the goalposts about what counts as primary sources. So when you ask about primary sources and that shifts between patristic evidence to biblical evidence, and then you move the goalpost to say, well, there might be some church fathers in the pre Nicene era that believed in images, but that doesn't mean it's normative. You just move the goalposts.

[Ruslan]

Doctrinal development. There was development, by the way.

[Jay Dyer]

You have no basis to say anything theologically is normative. You're in rap church.

[Ruslan]

The seeds of them were there, but they developed, whereas the Orthodox claim that we are the one true unchanging church. Now, how could you be the one true unchanging church if your dogmas aren't found in the primary sources?

[Jay Dyer]

Yeah, they are. That's because primary sources isn't Bible alone. And they're in the Bible too, by the way.

[Ruslan]

That is what's going to be discussed. And when you hear these arguments for it, when you hear the arguments for intercession of the saints, when you hear the arguments for icon veneration, when you hear the arguments for, you must confess your sins to a priest. Okay. Or confess your sins to God in

[Jay Dyer]

the presence of a. I thought you demanded I repent and confess my sins to you. So you do believe in. You believe. You do believe in oral confession of sans Ruslan priestess.

[Ruslan]

They'll nuance, right? I think they're lacking.

[Jay Dyer]

Well, yeah, because Bless God is actually in Ruslan's mind. When you give money to Ruslan, that's. That's how you bless God. Because in Ruslan's mind, Ruslan is God.

[Jim Bob]

Right.

[Jay Dyer]

And I'm actually starting to think this dude actually was. Has always been an atheist, and I think probably with David Wood, too, I cannot understand. There's absolutely no possibility in my mind that you could be a Christian apologist for 20 years as a former atheist and not know whether you believe the Protestant evangelical basics. That's not possible.

[Jim Bob]

Well, another part of it that they get really uncomfortable with is what do you practice? Because, like, what do you put. Believe has been the basis for, like, a lot of debates, and it's very useful. But when you get into, well, what's your practice like? They get very uncomfortable when you ask them, okay, what is it? What is it for you to actually practice? And they ultimately, they say, well, I just Pray and in my. And it's basically head church. It's like in their head, the entire thing.

[Jay Dyer]

The very thing they criticize. Ortho bros of. Oh, you live online, dude. Your whole church is online. What are you talking about?

[Ruslan]

That means is you come back to. Well, I'm just going to receive this stuff by faith, which is if it's by faith, then it's not this logical mathematical formula where you have the better arguments.

[Jay Dyer]

You don't.

[Ruslan]

Okay.

[Jay Dyer]

Oh, notice again, Ruslan hates logic because he can't logic. He doesn't know what fallacies are. And that's why you put our debate behind a paywall. So it's not logic. It's what's in your heart. It's fate, dog.

[Ruslan]

Which is if it's by faith, then it's not this logical mathematical formula where you have the better arguments. You don't.

[Jay Dyer]

So wait a minute. Faith doesn't mean that I have the better arguments. But you want to do a debate to see if the sources contain iconography and have the Bible. So what? Wouldn't that require logic, you dummy?

[Jim Bob]

It's going to be a faith off.

[Jay Dyer]

Is it a faith off?

[Jim Bob]

Right.

[Jay Dyer]

How Faith off. How do you faith off? Right all. It's performative. So actually, he's correct. He's actually right, because in his perspective, it is a faith off, which is who's a better performer performatively. That's why he doesn't want to go. The logic and the argumentation. You heard it right there. He said, I don't care about logic and argument. He says this all the time, too.

[Ruslan]

Okay, now that doesn't prove Eastern Orthodoxy false. It just shows that perhaps. Perhaps if you have multiple dogs that in. Are in the primary sources, those dogmas invalidate the claim that you are the one true church.

[Jay Dyer]

Yeah, you're going to get slammed and slain so hard on this topic. I hope you find somebody who will debate this topic, because you're. You're going to get.

[Jim Bob]

That's why they won't, though. They just won't debate it.

[Jay Dyer]

All they do is talk big. It's all talk, dude.

[Ruslan]

Hey, that's. This is permissible practice. But you can't say you're the one true church.

[Jim Bob]

And.

[Ruslan]

And you're unchanging. You're unchanging. Okay, now you got to change with the word unchang, dude.

[Jay Dyer]

You're unchanging. Like. Like you have. First of all, we take pride in being unchanging, so you're gonna have to demonstrate that being unchanging is actually A

[Ruslan]

problem changing means for any of this to be coherent. Now, they have a framework for this, but I think it falls apart. Now, in the midst of all this, my Instagram.

[Jay Dyer]

Okay, you think it falls apart.

[Jim Bob]

Cool.

[Jay Dyer]

What? Any. You want to give us any argument, like, any. Ruslan's videos are all just what Ruslan thinks. Like, I've never even heard him cite a church father. I've never heard him give a theological argument. When we were on his podcast, he pulled up on the screen two verses out of Galatians and something else. Right? Like the obvious ones. You would think. Now, this verse right here, Jay, it's a salvation by faith, not by works. How you gonna prove that to me when you seemingly got an unbiblical stance and then we had a two hour debate? I'm like, your whole argument was two Bible verses. And when I called out four logical fallacies, you say, I don't care. Yeah, I mean, this guy's the worst.

[Ruslan]

And I think there's other issues with the Oriental Orthodox claiming to be the one true church and the true Orthodox claiming to be the one true church. And you got billionaire billionaire patriarchs who have said stuff like, yeah, you haven't

[Jay Dyer]

proven that that's actually true. You're just citing New York Times articles, dummy. By the way, a lot these people are so low tier that they actually think that if there's multiple people claiming to be the one true church, that is somehow an argument against the one true church. This is so stupid. That'd be like. If multiple people don't think two plus two is four, then we don't know if two plus two is four. That's how stupid this is. That's why this guy doesn't want to have a formal debate and. And constantly says, yo, I don't care about the logics. What you want to logics me, bro?

[Ruslan]

All Muslims and Christians worship the same creator God. Sounds a lot like Vatican ii. Okay, and all this stuff is being waved away why? Because I think my prediction is this is only going to create more and more divisions within the Eastern Orthodox community.

[Jay Dyer]

Because you're adding, wait, what does Vatican II have to do with this? Oh, he's talking about. Because Kirill has made a. Or Bartholomew. If Bartholomew makes an ecumenical statement. By the way, does he not realize that the Russian Patriarchate just put out a statement that Christians and Muslims don't worship the same God? I mean, that was literally stated last week, and he's acting like that didn't happen. But also, it doesn't matter if there's a patriarch who's a heretic dummy microscope

[Ruslan]

and unnecessary scrutiny from constantly attacking Protestants. And we were like, man, you guys, do you. But I think it's crossed a threshold and it's only gonna get worse. And I'm here, I'm here to watch and enjoy and eventually have some conversations, signal boost some of this stuff. That doesn't mean that I think my Eastern Orthodox friends are not Christians.

[Jay Dyer]

But wait a minute, because you are saying that the only dogma that you can't be unfolding about or unbending about is if you have an exclusivist church. That's what y' all are saying on your streams. That's what God logic just said. So that's not true.

[Ruslan]

That's not. That's not my position and that's not the normative Protestant position. What that means is, hey, if you're.

[Jay Dyer]

There is no normative Protestant position, you idiot.

[Ruslan]

Going to be hyper critical.

[Jay Dyer]

He doesn't even know. I guarantee he doesn't know what normative means. He thinks it just is the. The normal. I bet he thinks normative is normal like majority. That's not what normative means.

[Ruslan]

If you're going to have this hypercritical spirit about everything and everyone, guess what? There's going to be people that are.

[Jay Dyer]

Dude, nobody is having a hypercritical spirit about everything and everyone. It's specifically the error of saying that it doesn't matter what church you go to. It's very specific. And he keeps lying throughout this video.

[Ruslan]

Gonna want to match that. There's going to be people like David Wood that are going to say, okay,

[Jay Dyer]

cool, yeah, I'm happy for people to match it. We've been asking forever for people to match it. And David Wood would not do a formal debate with me on the topic. He already declined. None of your gay crew will do a public formal debate with me on this topic. God Logic won't. IP won't. Gavin Ortland won't. Right. West Huff won't. You won't. You already said you would four times and then said but he gotta repent to me publicly before I do it.

[Ruslan]

I'm gonna sit and I'm gonna learn from your guys's best sources. I'm gonna learn from the other best.

[Jay Dyer]

Wait a minute. How are you going to sit and learn when you just said a minute ago we don't have evidence in the primary sources, but you're going to sit and learn. So you don't actually know whether we have evidence in the primary sources.

[Ruslan]

You sources and we're going to examine and we're going to have this one true church debate. And I think it's good. I think it's fine.

[Jay Dyer]

Yeah, right. Who's going to have that when and where? I won't hold my breath. It.

[Ruslan]

Okay. And then Protestants have to look at the same information and say, hey, yeah, what we're doing is a retrieval method. We're trying to retrieve the. The. The original 100 years of the church post.

[Jay Dyer]

Oh, so now he's a restorationist. This doesn't even know what he's arguing for. Now he's a restorationist that Protestants are retrieving the original first hundred years of the church. How are you going to retrieve the first hundred years of the church when you even have the Bible yet, dummy? There was no completed canon in the first hundred years of the church, so obviously they weren't sola scriptura in the first hundred years, dummy. They're still writing the Bible.

[Ruslan]

The, the. The ascension of Jesus. What was that church like? What was their values and how did.

[Jay Dyer]

So the Book of Acts, dummy. You mean where they have synods and where they have episcopacy, they gather.

[Ruslan]

And by the way, I don't think either church looks like the way the early church looks. For the record, I don't think they.

[Jay Dyer]

Nobody gives a what you think. You just admitted that you got to learn from the people on the topic. So you admitted you don't actually know. So who gives a what you think, dummy?

[Ruslan]

Saying rock and roll CCM songs. Nope.

[Jay Dyer]

Do you think it was rap church? Do you think the first century church was rap church? Mate, I'm off a Shelby dish badger, bro. And you heard it first from the Peaky Blinders.

[Ruslan]

Okay, so I don't think it looks like my church. And I also don't think they. They.

[Jay Dyer]

Hold on. You don't. You don't think it looks like rap church? So this just admitted rap church isn't the first century church saying rock and roll.

[Ruslan]

The, The. The ascension of Jesus. What was that church like? What was their values and how did they gather? And by the way, I don't think either church looks like the way the early church looked. For the record, I don't think they sang rock and roll CCM songs then.

[Jay Dyer]

They didn't sing rap songs, dummy. Then rhythm church. Rap church is not the church of the first century. You. You just admitted that your church is fake. Good job, dummy.

[Ruslan]

Okay, so I don't think it looks like my church. And I also don't think they.

[Jay Dyer]

I don't Think it looks like my church. Ruzan is admitting the early church, which he wants to be the model for this debate. Wasn't rap church. Shocker. It wasn't rap church. But what a retail. This is the stupidest man on the Internet. There's nobody dumber than this. And how many of y' all people got duped by this idiot? He's supposed to be. He can't even do a rap beef in response. All he does is and whine and run to the feminists on the. On Twitter to try to back him up.

[Ruslan]

They. They were.

[Jay Dyer]

By the way. I'm absolutely convinced that there is no way this dude was actually a gangster. Who actually believes that. This dude probably stole a pack of now and Laters. He stole a pack of now and Laters off the principal's desk and got.

[Jim Bob]

Got.

[Jay Dyer]

Got detention from it. Yo, I was a gangster when I was young, son.

[Ruslan]

Wizard outfits and had incense and can.

[Jay Dyer]

Wizard outfits. So he thinks liturgical vestments are wizard outfits. You. That means the Old Testament is a bunch of wizards. You just undid your own Old Testament religion. That means the synagogue that you send people to, they're wearing wizard outfits. You. You are the stupidest person on the Internet. Look at this dude. This is where he sends people to get circumcised to this. This fake ass messianic synagogue. He's wearing liturgical rabbinical vestment outfits. So Old Testament Levites were wizards, dummy. This dude is unbelievably stupid.

[Ruslan]

It was everywhere and had beautiful art everywhere. I think they may have you.

[Jay Dyer]

Yeah. The church being persecuted is not going to have giant cathedrals used art and

[Ruslan]

seemingly had some art.

[Jay Dyer]

And so. But now he's moved the goal post. Remember a minute ago he said you need to prove evidence from the primary sources that they had or. And that they had imagery and there might be some of that. They do got some of that. But you got to prove it's in the Bible. So he moves. This dude is so dumb.

[Ruslan]

I also think that they had very simple gatherings around the Gospel.

[Jay Dyer]

Yeah, we don't think. We don't care what you think. And there's already been scholars that have disproven the house church model. Like the house church you think is a low church because it says a house. Yo, that was a prayer meeting, bro. That was a prayer meeting at La Craye's house where we did a circumcision on little Don. We took him in the bathroom and did a circumcision improv. Circumcision. Yo. That's what House. Church means dog.

[Ruslan]

So those are my thoughts. I think everybody at the end of the day is, is looking for the truth. And I think if you're going to look for the truth, you have.

[Jay Dyer]

You just admitted it's not rap church, you dummy. You literally just said my church isn't early church.

[Ruslan]

To be logically consistent. And they're just not. The arguments are.

[Jay Dyer]

Wait a minute. A minute ago you said it's not going to be proven by logic and reasoning. You literally said that two minutes ago. He said it's a faith issue, it's not logic. But now it's we're not logically consistent. Dude, you can't go five minutes without contradicting yourself, dummy.

[Ruslan]

Not logically consistent. They can nuance it to death. They could word salad it to death. And now they actually.

[Jay Dyer]

I actually think Ruslan is so dumb that he actually thinks logical argumentation is fancy words. He's at that level. Like, he thinks that that's what logic is, is like, you know, silver tongue, car salesmen talk. That's what logic, yo, logics is like when you got a bunch of like, you know, fast talking and like fancy words and like out of the dictionary I never even heard of, bro. Yo, that's. That ain't how I roll, dog. I roll by and faith.

[Ruslan]

This is going to be scrutinized because they decided to pick this fight. And now you have.

[Jay Dyer]

No, you. You baited everybody with your dumb idea to put a catechumen against two people. It was called debate across the Internet. And then you backtrack when you got mild pushback and had a meltdown and admitted that you were wrong. You already admitted that you're the source of all this. So yeah, we're happy to pick a fight now. And guess what? We won't stop coming. It ain't going to stop. I'm gonna be making fun of you for the next 10 years, dummy.

[Ruslan]

Andrew Wilson scrambling, trying to hop into debate. Which by the way, Andrew Wilson's stuff generally against leftist, I think has been good.

[Jay Dyer]

And I've, and I've noticed Ruson lied too and said that Andrew Wilson only repeats red pill talking points. And then when Andrew showed from grock that Andrew consistently doesn't repeat the red pill talking points about don't getting don't get married, etc, Rougelon blocked him. So Ruzon is a legit 100 pathological liar.

[Ruslan]

Celebrated it. And I've championed his moves in those regards. I think his language and his mouth and his demeanor and his smugness.

[Jay Dyer]

Here we go. Smoking man bad. Right, but you just said a cuss word a couple years ago. You. Yo, I'm apologize for the F word. And look, I'm in a new studio, I got some new drip. He actually said that? He said, I'm in a new studio and I got different clothes. What the does that have to do with whether you said the F word, dummy.

[Ruslan]

Generally unbecoming of anyone that's a Christian lacking fruit.

[Jay Dyer]

Yeah, but all. Oh, here we go. Smoke man. Bad. Four letter word. Okay, so let's say for the sake of argument that that's true. I don't even buy that it is. But how come you didn't call out Gavin Orland's gay church? Where were you that? That's 10 times worse than anything ortho bros are doing. And by the way, ortho bros are bad for rage bait. He just did a lame ass rage bait in his video, which we all just laughed at. I thought rage bait was bad behavior on the Internet.

[Ruslan]

The spirit in these sorts of conversations. But if you want. If this is what they want. Well, guess what? There's gonna be a bunch of people that do it.

[Jay Dyer]

Oh, let's do it. Let's go. Let's. I will. We will. This war will never stop. In fact, we'll ramp it up. I'll do streams every day and there's

[Ruslan]

going to be a bunch of people that go there with them. I'm not going to keep talking about this because I don't want to bring more attention.

[Jay Dyer]

Who is even going to go? He's. He's flexing David Wood as if David Wood is some like. Like we're scared of David Wood. I already asked David Wood to do a formal debate and he wouldn't do it. David Wood just learned two days ago what the orthodox positions are on any. On basics. David Wood can't say if he believes the. The Reformation solos. You think he's your ace in the hole.

[Ruslan]

You are a legit unnecessary drama with this regard because I think this is only casting more and more division. But this is my video on it for the month.

[Jay Dyer]

Yeah, but we're not in league with you. We're already divided against you. So what you talk about cast creating more division and.

[Ruslan]

And I probably won't talk about it for a while after.

[Jay Dyer]

Oh, but you want to start a war, but you're above talking about it. He wants to. He wants to go out of war and he wants to have that war, but he's not going to talk about it for a while. Dude, I swear Ruslan is you. Somebody should go through this video, and every minute to two minutes, there is a backtracking of the thing he said two to three minutes earlier. That's all he ever does. Every statement is backtracked and contradicted within three to four minutes. Within the freaking video. Unbelievable. And this is the same dude who said four times he would debate me and then backed out because I'm too mean and I must publicly repent to him. So he actually does believe in oral confession. It's just to the God, Ruslan. Right?

[Ruslan]

As much as they want to debate me into a friendly chat over nonsense, I'm going to just wait a minute.

[Jay Dyer]

How is it nonsense when you just said you're about to go on the offensive and you're going to have these battles, but you won't debate, even though you said you will. But also, it's nonsense. So if it's nonsense, why are you going to war over it?

[Ruslan]

Engage. Because, honestly, I. I've been traveling a lot. I'm busy. I got others.

[Jay Dyer]

Yeah, Notice Ruslan's tour. His tour we saw on his website. Two cities. There's two cities. He's so busy, dog. I'm on tour. I got time to mess with you. I ain't got time for you, son. I said, how about a five minute conversation? This before all this blew up. I got time for you, son. I'm on tour. Oh, two cities. Cities on his website, all. I'm on tour, son. Yo, this is like, you know, Smoking grooves tour, right? 1990. We got like 50, maybe not 50, more like three locations that we're doing. You know what I'm saying?

[Ruslan]

Stuff I'm working on. But again, at some point, I will have one of these conversations. At some point, we'll keep having these conversations with Eastern Orthodox, but I. I really don't think they understand how fallacious some of the logic is.

[Jay Dyer]

And wait a minute, Rizon. You just said a minute ago logic doesn't matter and you don't care about logical argumentations. And now you're back to, yo, you fallacious and full of logics, bro. And I'm going to show you, you ain't got no logics, bro. I'm going to show you, you got no logics.

[Ruslan]

And now that that energy is being matched, they're, ho, ho. We're the victims. How dare.

[Jay Dyer]

Ain't nobody saying we're victims. We love it. That's why we're ready to formally debate dummy. And ain't nobody on your side gonna. I guarantee you. How do you think people been studying this stuff for 20, 25 years? How do you think David Wood, who just learned about it yesterday, is going to do well? Are you this stupid? This whole stream is a. A facade of fear. You can tell he's scared about this. That's why at the end of it, he's. He's backtracking, being like, I'm gonna go to war, but also, I'm not gonna do it because I'm above it all. I'm above it all. But you want war. You got it. But also, I'm not gonna do it because I'm above it. But also, logic don't matter. But I'm going to show you, you fallacious, you.

[Ruslan]

How dare you. How dare you point out that, man, optically, we have an issue. How dare you? And so those are my thoughts.

[Jay Dyer]

No, everybody is saying, you got the bad optics, dude. On our side, all you have is whining and bitching about pearl cl. That's all you had is pearl clutch this whole time, dummy.

[Ruslan]

On this sort of stuff. I want to know what you guys think about this. Like, are you. Are you actually considering how bad of a week this was for ortho bros? How.

[Jay Dyer]

Yeah, nobody thinks that. That's why everybody is laughing at how ridiculous David Wood has been exposed. Because David Wood, after 20 years, can't say what his basic positions are. That's. David Wood got exposed bad of a week.

[Ruslan]

This was for, you know, you got revenge and you got all kinds of nonsense.

[Jay Dyer]

There was no revenge, Corn. You're lying again.

[Ruslan]

Like, this is. This is really bad now, again, the. The rest of the Eastern Orthodox community gets. This gets to decide on if we're going to be complicit in this by being silent about some of the stuff. And I'm just.

[Jay Dyer]

Here he goes again. This is. Here's his call to cancellation. He did this on the last video. This piece of. Is so dishonest that his only move is to try to get other Orthodox clergy to cancel anybody in our sphere. Meanwhile, he's not man enough to actually do a formal debate after he said he would do it four times and backed out. What a piece of garbage. Dude, this piece. This dude is way ten times more snaky than I ever thought he was. I regret even going on this podcast.

[Ruslan]

So proud of the Eastern Orthodox that have stepped out and said, nah, this is wrong. Like, revenge porn is terrible. You can't. You can't.

[Jay Dyer]

It wasn't revenge Corn. You. What are you talking about?

[Ruslan]

Do this. This isn't. This is not how we behave. I'm. I'm pumped for those priests that have spoken out about this sort of stuff, but, man, there's a lot of coddling and man, there's a lot of pragmaticism. Hey, these people get people to church, so.

[Jay Dyer]

Pragmaticism. Pragmatism. The fuck are you talking. You don't even know the words you're saying, you word salad. This is trying to do word salad. Salad. He doesn't even do pragmaticism. Pragmatism. What are you talking about?

[Ruslan]

Everything else they do. We're not going to speak out against it because we want to keep a unified Eastern Orthodox face. That sounds a lot like the Dawa bros. That sounds.

[Jay Dyer]

Yeah, that's a fallacy of association. Again, doesn't know basic fallacies. Yo, that's a. That's a genetic fallacy, dummy. That sounds like what he said. That's the same as that dude.

[Ruslan]

Like a lot like Islam apologetics, right? And I, I just. I. I've seen this before. I don't think it ends well. We saw what happened to the red pill movement.

[Jay Dyer]

Here we go. Ortho bros dangerous. Ortho's bad. Ortho's gonna create, draw. They might be violence, bro. Look out. Something's coming, right? SPLC level talking points. Same thing they always do. How many examples of actual ortho bro violence? Zero. Absolutely none. And yet it's. It's going in bad for these dudes. Dark clouds is coming. So they're actually, in my opinion, doing the SPLC style talking point. He does it again. Same thing that Gavin Orland did. Same thing Wes Hoff does. These guys are dangerous. They're online cults. They're gonna get people hurt. They're destroying lives. No examples, no proof. Where's your proof? Here's a soccer account with no followers that said legalize grape. Yeah, that could be anybody, dummy. That's not proven. Nothing and none of that will hold up in court either, by the way. So I hope you do keep pushing this. See what happens.

[Ruslan]

Crashing and burning and. And now being a shell of itself, we've seen what happens to the Flat Earth movement, you know, crashing and burning now.

[Jay Dyer]

So again, guilt by association. This is the left. He's the does all the leftist tactics. Ortho bros are like the. The alt right. Ortho bros are like flat earth, right? Associating us with all this nonsense online this how, by the way, how has the SPLC fake funded stuff Perry worked out? That didn't work out very well. Did it. That fell apart. Oh, okay. So. But you're gonna do all the same Saul Linsky style tactics of Ortho bros is dangerous. Yo, they might hurt somebody. They're gonna. Something bad's coming. I don't know what it is, but something dark is coming.

[Ruslan]

Is it inevitable into this sort of stuff? And it's just. It's sad that it had to come to this. So.

[Jay Dyer]

So again, notice he is seething. He can't stop making videos about this because it's actually dipping into his market share here. Right? Ruslan's numbers are worse than mine. He's trying to talk about, like he's winning this battle online. Like this is all facade. This is what he's doing here, which is proclaiming victory when he's beginning to collapse. It's cracking for him. And we are not gonna. I'm not gonna stop the pressure.