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The Epstein Connection Everyone Keeps Missing - Jay Dyer & Zuby
01:18:10
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- [00:01]
Jay Dyer
If you're into tech, you'll love this.
- [00:03]
Zuby
TikTok is a live lab where users
- [00:06]
Jay Dyer
post instant reviews of the latest trends. Download TikTok and check it out. Most of the people in the intimate circles of Epstein were basically Democrats. He's in Ukraine a month before Zelensky comes to power. You have those emails between Epstein and Bill Gates about pandemic simulations in 2017. This even ties into the Vatican or because Epstein several times went to the Vatican, especially under John Paul ii. There appears to obviously be a Mossad connection. And as soon as Trump decided to do preemptive Iran strikes, everybody forgot about it.
- [00:42]
Zuby
Ah, boy. I mean, how deep do you think the rot goes?
- [00:46]
Jay Dyer
Governments, nation states have been brought down just from sexpionage. Rothschild set up earlier with Ghislaine's dad, Robert Maxwell, who was himself an Israeli intelligence operative, British intelligence operative, and he taught Epstein a lot of those techniques. And then Epstein was recruited into working for David Rockefeller.
- [01:05]
Zuby
Jeffrey Epstein's kind of like the tip of the iceberg. He's the name that people know. He's the face that people recognize. But I would assume that Jeffrey Epstein was not the only Jeffrey Epstein type character in operation.
- [01:19]
Jay Dyer
The images of Epstein and powerful people with what appeared to be very young, underage, and children, a lot of that was also blacked out. The best way to understand Epstein is, in my view, as a.
- [01:35]
Zuby
All right, ladies and gentlemen, welcome back to the Real Talk with Zuby podcast. On today's episode, we've got on a long awaited guest. He is an author, he is the host of the Alex Jones show, and he is a writer for the Sam Hyde Show. And this is the one and only Jay Dyer. Welcome to the show.
- [01:53]
Jay Dyer
What's up, Zubi? Great to be here with you. Glad to finally connect. I know we've been trying to make a chat happen for a few months, maybe a couple years even, I don't know. But glad to be here with you
- [02:03]
Zuby
finally, Jay, I'm sure a lot of my listeners are familiar with you, but for those who aren't, just give us a little intro.
- [02:09]
Jay Dyer
I've been doing online stuff in terms of alternate media probably for about 15 years. Started as a podcaster and then branched out into writing books and doing a lot of video stuff, live streams, working with Alex Jones for the last six years and then linked up with a lot of comedians, doing a lot of comedian podcasts and writing for Sam Hyde. But we do a lot of debates as well. So I just did a debate last night with a black Hebrew Israelite Cult leader. I've debated a lot of the top Muslims and atheists, so we do that as well. And then do a lot of geopolitical analysis, a lot of deep historical research. I wrote three books on Hollywood and Hollywood symbolism. So my third book, Strictly with three, is out. So that's what I do. I cover a whole miasma of topics and yeah, glad to, glad to be talking to Epstein with you.
- [02:59]
Zuby
We're definitely going to go deep on the Epstein files because I know that you have been really looking into that and it seems like a topic that's kind of gone out of the news headlines with everything that's going on in the world. But I think it's important that people remain focused to some degree and we actually find out what's going on here. But before we talk about that, just one more question. I'm curious about your background is how did you even get into this whole world of talking about the things you talk about and writing the kind of stuff you write?
- [03:29]
Jay Dyer
Well, I mean, I always love movies. So when I was in high school I wanted to be involved in some capacity in media. I was kind of, I was a theater kid, but heterosexual. I'm married, so most, most, most theater kids are not. But so I wanted to do, you know, that kind of stuff, entertainment, and wrote a stand up routine. When I was 18, I went and did it at a bunch of clubs and I really liked it. But I was also torn because I was really interested in kind of intellectual topics. So I went to college and did an undergraduate in philosophy and then I did two years of grad work on a master's in philosophy and English. So I wanted to tie the research that I was doing in the academic realm into sort of the other topics that I was covering, like movies and Hollywood. And I started blogging, wrote a whole bunch of essays over the years, which became the books. And then around, I'd say 2016, 17, we did a full production TV show. It's still out there. You can watch it. It's called Hollywood Decoded. And that was an analysis of a bunch of movies from the kind of unique perspective that I, that I have on film. And that led to a book or another book and then that led to, you know, working with Alex and other people and then kind of branching out and doing comedy. So it's just kind of a thing that snow, snowball. But ideologically, what piqued my interest was I watched Alex back in, I think 2003. He did a bunch of reports that I just happened to see On a random website when I was a kid, he was doing reports about Skull and Bones and the CIA and the relationship between these two entities and how that tied into kind of the way intelligence agencies, you know, engage in nefarious activities. So that led me, you know, kind of into the Ron Paul arena back in the, in the early 2000s, mid 2000s, and I watched Loose Change from Burma. So that got me questioning big events. And so it all kind of snowballed into where we are today.
- [05:30]
Zuby
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- [07:30]
Jay Dyer
Well, the first thing I would say is the context of this that I think makes the most sense is another subject that I kind of delved into. Kind of parallel to all this stuff coming out the last few years with Epstein. And that's the subject of honey traps, honey pots and sexpionage which governments have used for millennia. So we have to understand first of all that really with Epstein, there's not a whole lot in terms of what he was doing. That's new because this is the way that the state has functioned for a long time. You go back to the Bible, for example, and if you read the Book of Judges, if you pay attention, Delilah is a honey pot from the Philistines to entrap Samson in the famous story of Samson and Delilah. So espionage and this type of tactic and technique is ancient. You see it all through, even the scriptures. But to fast forward to modern times, in the last hundred years there have been some really famous cases where basically governments, nation states have been brought down just from sexpionage. A classic example is a guy named Kenji Doihara who at the turn of the last century was Japan's kind of his. Japan's Epstein. Epstein son, so to speak, who. He came up with this idea. He came up with this idea to basically put a bunch of houses of ill repute all throughout China and to traffic a bunch of opium throughout these houses of ill reputed, which was again kind of pioneering that idea even I think he was doing, even before the British were doing it. But maybe, maybe around the same time, but he set up a network of informants and honey traps amongst the prostitutes who could then sleep with all the Chinese generals and soldiers and gave, gave him all the advanced intel. But actually what happened was the Chinese in that province were so demoralized and addicted to opium that basically when he marched in, the Japanese troops didn't even really have much of a fight. So that was a classic example. It's very famous in history in terms of warfare. That gives us, I think, an insight into Epstein, maybe not so much from a kinetic warfare perspective, but from the way that you can entrap and bring entire governments and civilizations down. So with Epstein, what you have is, is a more modernized version of it that's not again based around warfare, but based around compromising key people in the power structure or in society in general. And that comes out of an older model that the Rothschilds also used explicitly, if you read their biography and that we made a lot of use of that Morton biography, which is an authorized biography of the Rothschilds, because in the first few chapters it admits that the famous story about advanced intelligence that they had over Waterloo was something that gave them an advantage economically. So they were able to buy up the London Stock Exchange when it collapsed because they had advanced intelligence about this, this battle and they gained an immense fortune from that. So in the same way, if you fast forward to just as an example, some of the emails that popped up you have Jeffrey Epstein doing these back and forths with Ariana de Rothschild and basically saying, hey, we've got a lot of advanced intel. We can go into these regions, buy it up when they have chaos, buy it up when there's collapse. He says to Peter Thiel, I represent the Rothschilds. And so those are great examples of the Greek bailouts, the IMF debt crisis that was happening about 10 years ago, 11, 12 years ago in the EU. Epstein was saying, these are regions where we can make massive amounts of money. So the same thing about Somalia in a series of emails. And so while the sexual compromise plays a role in kind of taking out or controlling certain key figures in society, culture, government, banking, corporate arena, etc. The advanced intelligence also plays a key role in figuring out where to move money and where to move, you know, resources to purchase land, etc, so it's all of those things. And so the best way to understand Epstein is, in my view, as a, an elite level consultant and fixer, kind of a master organized crime figure. Very close to what you would see in somebody like a John Gotti. So, well, I take that back, like a Sammy the Bull, because John Gotti is the head of the family. And I did a bunch of interviews with, with Sammy the Bull, who was his underboss. And the way Sammy describes their organizational structure and the way that they worked back in, you know, the 60s, 70s and 80s, very close to what you see with Epstein and his circles, but they're on a more international, global scale. So it's an international crime syndicate that comes out of the structure that the Rothchild set up earlier with Ghislaine's dad, Robert Maxwell, who was himself an Israeli intelligence operative. British intelligence operative. He kind of worked for different outfits, but they set up a corporate publishing empire for him to run. And then he also became a fixer and a corporate sort of takeover artist. And then he taught Epstein a lot of those techniques. And then Epstein was recruited into working for David Rockefeller as his right hand man, so to speak, at the Trilateral Commission as a council member, maybe even the, I think it was maybe even the head of the Trilateral Commission.
- [13:16]
Zuby
Just to clarify, what's the, what's the Trilateral Commission? I'm not familiar with that.
- [13:20]
Jay Dyer
So basically you have the, in the Western power structure, you have these steering committees that have been set up going back to the model that the British Empire had through what they called the Royal Institute for International Affairs. And this was sort of their round table that they set up as a means of running the Empire through these sort of oligarchical wise men. And so they're very powerful blue blood families at the time of the British Empire. Royals, elites, academics even can be recruited into these roles out of Oxford, Cambridge and Eton. And so that model of the Royal Society's roundtable groups is the very same model that very powerful American oligarchs set up in the US through what they called Pratt House in New York. So you have Chatham House in the uk, which is the original place where this was set up. And then in New York in the 1920s, through Pratt House, the Rockefeller set up the Council on Foreign Relations, which is a supra governmental body that they're public, they're not a secret society, they're public, but they are semi secret in that they have a huge amount of influence. And I would argue over politicians. And amongst the CFR there's a more kind of elite clique that's called the Trilateral Commission that was set up by Kissinger and Rockefeller for Zbigniew Brzezinski himself, because Brzezinski wrote a book in 1970 called Between Two Ages, which is about the future technocracy. And Rockefeller and Kissinger were so impressed with this book that they said that guy needs his own steering committee to run. And so they created the Trilateral Commission for Brzezinski, which is again just kind of a more elite steering committee group amongst the CFR members. And then by the 19, I forget what year he said, but maybe 1990, somewhere in there they bring Epstein on to be a steering committee member at that very high level group. So you've probably heard of Bilderberg. Bilderberg Group is a lot of the same people in the CFR and the Trilateral Commission. So it's at that level of like Bilderberg.
- [15:35]
Zuby
And CFR stands for what?
- [15:37]
Jay Dyer
The Council on Foreign Relations, which is again just kind of a supra governmental group that has a huge amount of influence. They're semi public, semi private. So it's not a secret society, but a lot of people in secret societies like Skull and Bones or something like that, they will also be members of the CFR and the Trilateral.
- [15:58]
Zuby
Thanks for watching this video. If you haven't already, make sure you subscribe to the channel for more full real talk with Zubi podcasts and clips. Thank you. This is a very, very deep rabbit hole and these names have come up a few times and they're going to keep coming up. And I think again, most people have heard the names Rothschilds and Rockefellers at least have heard the family names and know that they have a lot of wealth and its generational wealth. But most people have not done the deep dive you have into all of these subjects. So tell me a little bit more about who the Rockefellers and Rothschilds are in the past and perhaps even more importantly, in the present.
- [16:41]
Jay Dyer
Yeah, there's a great book that's kind of a good starting place for this, and it's by a guy named Dr. Carol Quigley. And he was a high level CFR archivist and historian. So he's an academic, He's a professor from Georgetown and he's Bill Clinton's mentor, very famously. So when he wrote these books that he put out, you have to understand that he's not a conspiracy theorist. Right. So he's not writing as if he's saying that the establishment is bad. He wrote Tragedy and Hope, which is this big 1300 page book. It might be at my other place, but we've lectured through that book on my channel about 10 years ago, through the totality of all 1300 pages. So it's about 16 hours of lecture material. But it's really important because it kind of forms the insider view that the power elite have. And that book was not written for the masses at that time. It was written, I think, in the, in the late 60s. It was written for the policymakers, the bureaucrats, and for CIA section chiefs during the Cold War to understand what the American foreign policy actions were. Because you had people working in the CIA who couldn't understand, well, how come sometimes we're funding dictators, how come sometimes we're funding communists? This doesn't really seem to make sense with what America is supposed to be about. So the book is explaining the bigger grand perspective, you know, geopolitical stance that the Atlanticists, the Americanist elite have. And so it's kind of going into what the big game plan is. And so that's why Quigley is so important. And he says when he's writing the book that he is writing from the archives of the CFR itself. So these are not public, accessible documents. These are documents that only he had access to. And so he wrote another book a few years later that is a shorter summary called the Anglo American Establishment. And he traces the origins of this power block and this ruling class in the west to exactly what I mentioned earlier, which is the Royal Society and the roundtable groups and Cecil Rhodes's idea of creating a new British Empire. Now, we don't live today in a new British Empire, but America adopted that sort of perspective through the elites like David Rockefeller, who famously joined his family's wealth with the Rothschild's family wealth. And that's who's really kind of the, the oligarchical class running the west by, by admission, not just in those books, but also you see this yellow book right here? It says this is the Roth Rockefeller's authorized biography. It says the same stuff in it. David Rockefeller wrote a book called Memoirs where he says all the same stuff too. He says in the chapter on Bilderberg, he says, I created the Bilderberg Group in part my family. And yes, we absolutely created it to have a world government. And he says, I'm proud of it. So there's very public admissions in a lot of these texts and that's, that's why it's important to read them. So, so we're not going to conspiracy theorist texts. What we do on My Channel, and I've lectured through about 70 of these global elite texts by now in the last 10 years. What we do is we go to the sources and see what they're saying and what do they admit and what's their plan. So with the Rothschilds, they have a very similar but perhaps older European perspective on this. And they gained a lot of power, according to Dr. Quigley in his chapter on France in French baking in the 1700s is where they really began to come up. And they became, you could argue, perhaps almost the controlling interest in France in the 1700s and 1800s through the Central bank of France. And so what they did was they used a certain model of fiat central banking or fractional reserve banking, which allows the private bank to be able to print into infinity however much money they want. At that time it was based on what they call gold notes. Nowadays it's just straight fiat since Nixon took us off of the gold standard. But this is still the same principle of loaning out and then getting interest on the money that you can print into infinity. So it's kind of a never ending money machine that they came up with. And it's a scam, but it works very well to kind of get your grip on the entire nation. And so that same model of a centralized bank then spread to bank of England, it spread to the US with the Federal Reserve many years later. But that's how they, they control these nations essentially through the money printing and through the bank. And that's why the Rothschilds and the Rockefellers have had so much, so much power and have been such a, a force in American politics, is that the, the Rockville is representing the corporate side of things with the Standard Oil and banking, JP Morgan Chase and then the Rothschilds to the older European model of banking. And many, many authors have argued that JP Morgan actually represented the Rothschilds in the US So that's the real power structure and that's the model that they use. But they have high level fixers and agents like a Jeffrey Epstein, who does a lot of the dirty work, networking, consulting. In fact, there was an email that came out that Epstein had planned at one point he was about to meet with like 15 heads of state throughout the world. And so when he said to Steve Bannon in that Bannon interview that I was recruited into the Trilateral Commission by David Rockefeller himself. I was his legate, his attache. And then he says in the emails I represent on the legate attache of the Rothschilds. That's telling you everything that essentially people like Quigley and a lot of these establishment apologists have been saying the whole time that this is how it really works.
- [22:38]
Zuby
This is quite the web. So why do you think the Epstein files came out when they did?
- [22:47]
Jay Dyer
Well, I think that there was a lot of pressure from people like Massie and others to have it released. You know, Trump made a big deal about this campaigning on the release of these, these files. So I think that those are all part of the reasons why. However, you know, the redactions made it very difficult to figure out exactly what was going on. So it actually in many cases seemed to protect the perpetrators. And then when I forget who it was, an Apollo lunar, some of Massey and others went and actually saw the unredacted files right. Like a month or two ago and they said this is insane that we redacted all these perpetrators. So it could on the way, it could on one level be a giant sort of middle finger to say that even if we release these, it's not going to matter because nobody's going to be prosecuted from it. Even though if you recall when these all came out, this first batch, you had a lot of powerful people in corporate worlds and in government positions, bureaucrats throughout the world, step down because of their associations and potential criminal activities that were admitted in a lot of these files. So I think that even though there might have been some repercussions, nobody really went to jail so far as I'm aware of, or, or has been prosecuted. So it didn't really amount to much. And as soon as Trump decided to do preemptive Iran strikes, everybody forgot about it. So. So yeah, it could be a demoralizing thing to to release it and then nothing happens. Or it could have just been a situation where there's so much pressure that they cave. But then again, you know, there's so much. There's so much that's redacted. I mean, I'm not saying that you can't make out what's going on even though it's redacted, but the names is the main point of like, okay, well, who are these billionaire perpetrators? Right. So we figured out there's a few of these, you know, billionaires out there that are in here, but in these low level academics and professors. But who are all these other names that are redacted? Right.
- [24:58]
Zuby
How was the redaction explained? Like, what's the official line on the redaction?
- [25:06]
Jay Dyer
It was protecting the victims, which is what makes no sense. Right. How are you protecting the victims by blacking out pretty much everybody? Because it's not just victims. I mean, I can understand. Yeah, in some of these cases it's victims blacked out. But I mean, in a lot of cases it's not. So it doesn't make any sense. Right. And then in other situations it's not redacted. So it's like, well, why in some case you have these low level academic professors, right, who are answering Jeffrey Epstein's emails about the most disgusting stuff. Right. Stuff I can't even mention. But then you've got billionaires, presumably, that are redacted. So it's not consistently applied, is my point. Which tells us that they were probably actually consistently applying it to protect certain people. But the excuse is that they're protecting victims.
- [26:01]
Zuby
And do you know why they chose to. Do you know, first of all, do you know how much of the total has been released? Is it something like half?
- [26:10]
Jay Dyer
Yeah, it's like half. Right. So there's like another supposed 3 million.
- [26:13]
Zuby
Okay, and is there an explanation, again from the official level, is there. What's the explanation of why they released what they've released and why they've kept back what they kept back?
- [26:25]
Jay Dyer
Well, why they haven't released more, I don't know. I mean, there is no explanation. Right. For example, I think everybody was surprised that this even came out because they did that whole binder fiasco under Bondi, what, like eight months, a year ago where they handed out a bunch of stuff that was already public, so that was all just a photo op and, you know, a bunch of nonsense. But, you know, Bondi got a lot of flack for that. And I think that probably had a lot to do with kind of her sort of demise in terms of the public's eyes as well as other things. It's probably the same with Patel. But yeah, I mean, it's been such a disaster and I think that seems to be a pretty pivotal turning point. A lot of what Trump was doing in terms of this MAGA split that's occurred since he began to say, stop caring about Epstein. Who cares? You're low IQ if you care about it and you're not maga. You know, that was eight months a year ago, right around the same time that he was, you know, pressured to do strikes on Iran. And so that was, I think, a huge turning point to where it just got worse with the Trump administration. So there was something going on there. I don't know, or I'm not saying that Trump himself necessarily has done something illegal. I don't know that. And I'm not yet seeing anything in the files that indicates that. However, I think that it's been an optics disaster and the, the turning point for the administration when they said, stop worrying about it, it doesn't matter. And then this comes out. Right. So it probably came out perhaps to damage Trump. At least the Democrats thought it would damage Trump. And then of course, we find out that most of the people in the intimate circles of Epstein for the most part are, or basically Democrats. I'm not trying to play party politics, I'm just saying that this, these seem to be the facts. Then they decided, well, this wasn't actually that beneficial for the Democratic Party, so, so there could have been multiple motivations, right, in terms of why it was released. But regardless, what it shows us is a window into how the establishment really works, which is above the party system. And you have these international oligarchs, billionaires, and essentially, what if you've seen the recent James Bond movies, basically? Specter.
- [28:49]
Zuby
Yeah, I'm trying. I'm just trying to get my head around it because all or nothing kind of makes more sense to me than this halfway. Okay, let's, let's release 50% of it with lots of redaction. It would kind of make more sense to me if they just, you know, did what they'd been doing for the past few years and they just never released anything to the public. Obviously that's worse, I guess, but it kind of strategically, if I try to put myself in their brains, which I think, thankfully, thank God, I can't, that kind of makes more sense to me than doing this halfway approach. And then, I don't know, is the second half going to be released Is that going to just stay hidden indefinitely? Does there need to be political pressure? Does there need to be public outcry? You know, it's just kind of tricky to wrap my head around that part, let alone start to wrap my head around what's actually in these files.
- [29:50]
Jay Dyer
Because I didn't expect the first batch to come out like it did because I was live streaming when it happened. And I noticed on Twitter it was like, okay, you start seeing this drip out and like more and more, you know, high profile accounts like Marl Nefal keep putting up like just absolutely insane level stuff, which, you know, 10 years ago any single one of those emails would have been like the biggest news story for weeks. And they hear it as like every minute, like some emails dropping or some text messages dropping where, you know, you've got Epstein, he's in Ukraine a month before Zelensky comes to power. You, you've got Zelensky's text messages saying, get me Jeffrey, I need to talk to him, I need to be consulted. What do I do? You've got all these like world leaders and prime ministers, you know, mentioning how they need his consultation, they need his help. And so, you know, I live streamed, I think for an entire week, literally like every day for hours. I had a six hour live stream to get like 70,000 views, which is on my channel is really big. So like there was just never ending like material and information to cover, which just blew me away. So I didn't expect we would get that. And even what we saw in the first, first batch there was just absolutely like mind blowing level stuff. I mean everything from what appears to be, you know, snuff type stuff to giving the okay to do a hit, I mean assassinate, I mean it's all the stuff that's in there that you could think of, presumably a lot of references to trafficking of people. Exactly. What the coded words mean in terms of beef jerky and grape soda, I'm not sure, but it presumably it refers to some sort of black market something. So you know, the level of this, again, it's an industrial scale operation that, that he had. So that I think is what's the most kind of shocking that we even saw any of that. And I wanted to stress that there were so many journalists and people that wrote books over the years. My publisher also publishes Whitney Webb's book and her volume two on Epstein I think was pretty much vindicated in these emails. Another book that was written by a guy named Gordon Thomas called Gideon spies maybe 20, 20 years ago, 25 years ago. A lot of that, a lot of his theses and theories have also been vindicated by these files. So again, it's a window into how the power structure really runs things. And I think that's the most important part of it. Beyond, you know, I mean, obviously I'd like to see, you know, a lot of high level criminals get prosecuted, but I never really thought that would happen. So I'm just kind of happy that we even get this window into how the oligarchy really works.
- [32:42]
Zuby
How much of it have you actually read through? Because it wasn't something ridiculous like, wasn't it 3 million pages or something, the
- [32:48]
Jay Dyer
big ones that popped up on Twitter? So, I mean, for me, Twitter was sort of the main method of looking at this. I mean, I did go to the website and look up some things from the DOJ itself, but rather than spending a whole lot of time like searching through the archives, what I would do is if I found one that I thought was pretty spicy, just verify, look to see if that one's real. Pretty much all them were. The only thing that I think was a little bit shady and sus or disinformation was there's so many of these files and so many of them were things that are kind of irrelevant or they were things like random FBI tips that people could call in. And a lot of people on X were kind of not ferreting out this information very well. So they were taking things that, like some schizo guy calls in to the FBI and says, trump's at my house and he's doing this. Or they took me on a boat and they were doing this and this, and I saw him eating babies and this and that. And they cut my feet with a magical sword that doesn't leave marks. Like, it's just like, obviously that's a schizo person, you know, calling in a tip, right? And that's different from, for example, information from a confidential informant. So there were confidential informant reports, there were FBI reports, there were police reports, all different tiers and types of documents. So I think, you know, ferreting out those is. Was the most important thing to just figure out, okay, that's not credible. This is just some guy's assertion and claims. This is an actual court case, right, Where Epstein is involved in, you know, there's $20 million here, here's $10 million here. Those, I think, were the most important things and the admissions of how they view where to move money and you know, what the, the chaos in certain regions does for moving money Basically, I think those were the most, most insightful.
- [34:49]
Zuby
There was something you mentioned earlier about Ukraine and Zelensky saying that he needs Epstein. I, I have not seen those emails. What, what's that about?
- [34:58]
Jay Dyer
Well, actually, those were text messages where. So there's one email where Epstein is saying, hey, blah, blah, blah. I'm going to be in the Ukraine in blah. I forget what the date was, but that was one month before Zelensky came to power. So a lot of people said, that's very curious that he would be there. And then there were text messages where Zelensky was saying, I need to talk to Jeffrey. He's really good at consulting on these kinds of people issues. And there were at least three or four of those.
- [35:27]
Zuby
And those are messages sent between who or is that.
- [35:32]
Jay Dyer
Well, sometimes the names are redacted. So it could be Zelensky and Bannon, or it could be Zielinski talking to someone else. But a lot of the text messages appear to be Epstein and Bannon back and forth. And so those. I think the Zelensky one was perhaps Bannon or it's redacted. I don't recall. Top of my head.
- [35:52]
Zuby
Got it.
- [35:53]
Jay Dyer
But you can, you can find them pretty, pretty easily. You just type in Epstein, Zelensky text messages. They'll come up.
- [36:00]
Zuby
So, so Zelensky's. I assume. So his name was not redacted in this.
- [36:04]
Jay Dyer
No, not in the text messages.
- [36:08]
Zuby
Yeah, this is, this is the thing. I'm trying to get my, my again, I'm trying to understand the what. What's redacted and what's. And what's not.
- [36:16]
Jay Dyer
Yeah, I don't know the logic of how they did it or I mean, perhaps they applied a program to it because, I mean, it seems difficult for human beings to redact 3 million documents. I mean, that would be a lot of work. I mean, it seems like there's probably some computer program that would do it. I don't know.
- [36:36]
Zuby
I also, I'm also confused by the 3 million number. So what does that include? Because I don't know. I mean, if you, if someone even took. I mean, in my whole lifetime, right. I haven't even sent 3 million emails and text like through my entire lifetime, let alone ones that are shady. But like, I, I don't even know like where. What's that 3 million number? Like what was included?
- [37:02]
Jay Dyer
It's everything. So it's basically news articles.
- [37:06]
Zuby
Okay.
- [37:06]
Jay Dyer
And the reason that it's so high level or so many such a high number is because they were still collecting, you Know, data and reports all the way up until recently. So basically anything in the media about Epstein, which countless news articles, it could be police reports, court case documents, FBI reports. I don't think there's, I can't recall anything from the CIA except for maybe oblique references to, to certain things, but a lot of FBI related documents and materials. Okay. And then like I said, like confidential informant reports as well as tips. So, you know, somebody just calling in and saying, hey, I was, you know, Jeffrey Epstein touched my butt in 1999. Well, that makes it in there then as a, you know, as a document. So there's, there's a lot of those photos, videos. So there were photo and video files of all kinds of kind of really horrendous stuff. A lot of that was also blacked out too. For example, many images of Epstein and powerful people with what appeared to be very young, underage and children aged people. So that's why it was so many.
- [38:33]
Zuby
Geez. So this might be a very naive question, but I'm still trying to get clear on who Jeffrey Epstein actually worked for.
- [38:43]
Jay Dyer
Yeah, well, that's a great question. And it looks like again, I think the best way to understand this, because it seems to be conflicting allegiances, is to understand that he actually works for a very high level international oligarchical power structure and elite. So if we understand that model, which is this model that I've been talking about, of how, you know, Quigley discusses these steering committees of these high level people, like Bilderberg level people, Rockefeller, Rothschild, Kissinger level people, if we understand that that's who's really running things in the west and has for a long time, for perhaps a century or so, that's a better model to understand and explain how it makes sense that Jeffrey Epstein appears to have several different allegiances because there appears to obviously be a Mossad connection with Mossad outfitting his estates and mansions and houses with surveillance equipment. Admittedly, Ehud Barack visits his New York residences dozens of times, according to mainstream media. They have extensive conversations in the files, even some of the audio conversations leaked where Epstein is explaining to Ehud Barack who Peter Thiel is and how they need to try to get him into their sway, into their circles. They mentioned a lot of tech billionaires kind of entrapping them, bringing them in, getting them on board. So if we understand that perspective, then we can say, okay now, now it actually makes sense that you have these emails that Mike Bens highlighted where Epstein is able to use CIA planes for many decades at the same time as he's got these connections with British intelligence, high level people in the UK through Maxwell and Ghislaine, obviously, because Maxwell worked for British intelligence as well as trying to also play both sides of the Cold War with the Soviets and with Israel. And so there's a Supra international elite, and that's who Epstein worked for. So you could say it's British intelligence and the CAA and the Mossad and perhaps the Five Eyes intelligence structure. That oligarchical elite is what he worked for.
- [41:02]
Zuby
Geez. Ah, boy. I mean, how deep do you think the rot goes?
- [41:09]
Jay Dyer
I mean, to a degree, like we said at the beginning, you know, nation states have always operated with blackmailers and intelligence operatives and used, you know, these kinds of operations to a degree. But I think the difference here is that we're beyond the nation state level. You know, this is more than kings having a network of prostitutes. You know, this is an industrial scale operation that's not just about blackmailing high powerful, high power people. It's a lot to do with money laundering, it's a lot to do with international finance. And I think that's the thing that people missed when they, they talked about Epstein or then when they thought about it. That came out in the Bannon interview. The first 20 or 30 minutes of the interview, he's. Unless Bannon is playing stupid, like he's having to explain to Bannon what fractional reserve banking is and how it works, which was odd because I would have thought Steve Banham knew what that was and how it worked. But maybe he was playing dumb, I don't know. But. And then he goes into explaining to Bannon, like, you know, I was recruited to help consult and explain to, you know, high level power players, like on the cfr, Trilateral Commission boards, like, how to do criminal operations and consulting at that high level. He even said that when he was in jail, when he first got arrested, like he would, he would. When he had his like, daily phone call, like one phone call or whatever the prison rules are, he's like, yeah, I would go call the head of, you know, JP Morgan and tell him what to do, where to move money during the, the bailouts and the housing collapse. So like he was. Even if you've watched Goodfellas or like gangster movies, right, like, you know how they're in, they're in prison and they're still running the family organization from jail. Like that's what he was doing, right? He was actually. And he was laughing and bragging about that to Epstein. So. So he's again, a high level criminal fixer and consultant. And the rot goes as deep, I guess, as the highest levels of power in the West. Right. And I mean this even ties into the Vatican. Right? Because Epstein several times went to the Vatican, especially under John Paul ii. They seem to have a pretty close relationship. According to several of the emails, Epstein claimed at least to even be given pieces of architecture for his house from John Paul ii. He claims to have consulted John Paul on architectural stuff. Then we have that image of him and just lane being blessed by the Pope. And he's not the only high level, you know, PDF connected fixer who was close to John Paul ii. Jimmy Savile was also knighted by John Paul ii, who was a high level PDF fixer in the same circles that Epstein was in. So again, there seems to be a pattern here of how this works. He even explains to Larry Summers, the Clinton era banker and Harvard vulture capital guy, what the Vatican bank is and how it works is a great tool for international money money laundering that the CIA has used historically. So he's even explaining like the Vatican bank to people and how it ties into their network. And the Rothschilds have been the Vatican bankers for at least a couple hundred years. Oh, so that's how deep it goes into the Vatican as well as what,
- [44:39]
Zuby
you know, it's like, I think a lot of people wonder there hasn't been, why there haven't been more questions about all of this stuff over the years or the decades or even now. There doesn't seem to be that much sustained interest about the Epstein files when he supposedly ended his own life a few years ago. Allegedly, you know, there was a lot of talk about that and memes on the Internet for a couple of weeks and then it just kind of disappeared and people generally lost interest and stopped asking, asking questions. And I think part of it is just because it just seems like insanely complicated to even get your head around. I mean, I'm here talking to you and just listening and I myself, as someone who is intrigued to really understand what's going on here and what's been going on here and who is really running the world, who's really, really running our nations, all this type of stuff. And like my brain is, my brain gets overloaded and I'm just like, what? Like everything is, everything is connected to everything and there's like all of these things going on at once. It's not just the, it's not just trafficking, it's not just money laundering, it's not just central banking and moving Money. It's not just manipulating foreign wars and conflicts overseas. It's just like, it's like everything. And it seems like everybody at every level to some degree is somehow involved or complicit. And I think because of the complexity, a lot of people just kind of shrug their shoulders and they're just like, like, I don't know, like, you know, I guess. I guess it's just all corrupt. But I can't even, you know, occupy my brain with all this stuff.
- [46:27]
Jay Dyer
Well, I get, yeah, I, that I feel that. But really it's kind of simple. I mean, that's why in my books, for example, I always try to use movies as kind of an avenue to kind of hopefully explain it or kind of get the basics through to people. Because, you know, we said a lot of names and a lot of organizations or whatever, and it sounds kind of maybe complicated with all these names. And we need like a cork board with, you know, string to tie all the people, like a, the FBI or the conspiracy theorist has, you know, with their cork board. But really, if you watch a movie like Spectre, the recent one with the Daniel Craig, the James Bond movie, it's kind of like that, right? You know, you have this international corporate banking super elite and they meet, you know, in places like Rome or, you know, Bilderberg, for example, just happened in D.C. this year, ironically, which hasn't happened since the 90s. But you know, they have these, you know, private, I mean, private meetings, excuse
- [47:30]
Zuby
me,
- [47:32]
Jay Dyer
where they really discuss and set policy. And my guess would be that there's also meetings that are, that are completely private, right, that happens amongst the higher level groups and people. And so what you see in, for example in the movie Specter is Spectre meets in Rome in this giant sort of villa. It's really elite place. And James Bond infiltrates it. And when he gets there, he kind of sneaks up into the balcony and he's listening and they're doing this boardroom meeting in this giant, you know, sort of fancy hallway. And then you've got all these people sitting around this giant, you know, this giant table. And they're, they're listing the stats for the criminal operations. And so they're basically like, yes, this year, you know, human trafficking is up 50%. And then this other person's like, yes, and then. And we've received, you know, to $10 billion through, you know, you know, heroin trafficking in this region and this. So this is really like that there are actual people who get the equivalent of a PhD in how to run Criminal operations. And I think a lot of people that, that sounds kind of foreign to them but, or that that wouldn't exist. But again, to go back to the example of organized crime, when I interviewed Sammy the Bull, you know, the way he describes the structure of the Sicilian Mafia in New York and throughout the country and also into into Sicily, you've got hundreds of years of people who know how to set up criminal organizations so that they don't get caught or if you bust one cell, the rest of the structure is left untouched. And that model is very effective. In fact, I had dinner with a guy some years ago who was part of the US team's prosecution in Brazil in what's called the car wash scandal. And the way he described the way that this organization had corrupted the entire government was at the level of a PhD in crime. So basically this guy who they called the Sicilian, they didn't use his real name, he was a criminal mastermind. And he had figured out a very cunning way for within Brazil, the entire country and government to be corrupted. And you couldn't really uncover it until there was an accidental mistake that somebody made by leaving a car at a car wash. Hence why it's called the car wash scandal. And this led to the entire Brazilian government being exposed as controlled by one criminal organization. And the same model applied to Operation Gladio which is what the CIA did in Italy to control it through Kissinger. According to some authors and consultants, namely Paul Williams's book on Gladio. He says that Kissinger was running Gladio through an organized crime structure in Italy that included both secret societies and the Mafia. And so they basically co opted the entire Italian parliament and the cardinals in the Vatican through this Epstein style model of like bringing people to parties, compromising them with, with women, men, whatever, kids. And then you can control the entire government that way because you got dirt on everybody. The dirt is, is had through both the Mafia and organized crime. The organized crime can enforce it. And it was all tied into the Italian banking system, the Banco de Ambrosio, which collapsed because they were stealing people's pensions and betting on the pensions, which is exactly what happened. Same model as the FTX collapse. And so when I was asking this guy who prosecuted the car wash scandal in Brazil, I said this sounds a lot like FTX and Gladio. And he said no, they're the exact same model. So essentially there's templates that can be used at a national scale or at a corporate scale in the case of like FTX where it's a model of theft that is very perceptive in how there's cutouts and there's shell corporations. It's insane. The level of confusion and sort of plausible deniability and distancing that they can set up. But long story short, there's criminal PhDs who organize these things.
- [52:06]
Zuby
Okay, so within this web, who are the. That's the question I want to ask here. Who are, like, the good guys? Is that a thing?
- [52:23]
Jay Dyer
Well, I mean, in this web, there's no good guys.
- [52:26]
Zuby
So. Okay, so I don't mean people involved, but I mean, if we're talking about, you know, if we're talking about we've got corruption at the national level, and then you've mentioned this sort of supranational level, which is going across countries and sitting across governments, then to actually expose and bring down this level of corruption and just gross, immortal immorality. I mean, are there people in positions who even could do that? Do you kind of see what I mean? Like, is it. Or is the web. Is the web kind of caught so many people in it with all these different pressures and all of this blackmail? Like, I'm assuming that, you know, not every single person in every single Western government is, like, compromised.
- [53:21]
Jay Dyer
Right.
- [53:21]
Zuby
Has, you know, not everyone's, like, been to Epstein island and, you know, been caught on camera doing something sketchy or whatever? I'm sure some people have. I would like to think the majority have not. But is there some other way that they're, I don't know, putting pressure on them or keeping them silent or preventing this from being further exposed? Because the way I look at it, just using my common sense, it seems like Jeffrey Epstein's kind of like the tip of the iceberg. He's the name that people know. He's the face that people recognize. But I would assume that Jeffrey Epstein was not the only Jeffrey Epstein type character in operation. Right?
- [54:07]
Jay Dyer
Yeah. And again, you know, there's some weird stuff with, you know, he was given control of Leslie Wexner's entire fortune, Right? So. And there's He. He's a billionaire figure who is probably most known for kind of owning a lot of fashion brands like Victoria's Secret and, you know, like Abercrombie, those kinds of things. Those were all part of the. The Wexner sort of brand. And this is where you get these other figures, like Jean Luc Brunel, who also unalived himself and seems to have been kind of a similar type of figure to Epstein. And under the guise of recruiting models. Right. And working for, supposedly Victoria's Secret. He was able to then kind of get access to a lot of the women for that part of the operation. And it also, again, ties into a lot of really sort of esoteric international finance money laundering stuff, which is kind of difficult to. To understand. Even. Even I have like a hard time understanding a lot of how the money laundering stuff works because it's so complicated and complex by design. And the reason they do it in a very complex shell company way is that that makes it very hard to understand and investigate. So that's why like FBI or whoever starts looking at those things, like it takes them a long time to build the case and figure out exactly how it worked. Same with like the Brazilian car wash scandal. Like it took a long time for them to figure out the super complex criminal operation. But so there are good people in the sense of. Usually I think a lot of, you know, people who are whistleblowers are great examples. I just did a pretty lengthy in depth interview with John Kiriakou. He had me on his show. And you know, he's a famous CIA whistleblower who blew the whistle on the torture program and the Obama administration went after him and, you know, he stood up against all that. So I think Kiriaki is a great example of a whistleblower. You could argue that, you know, Julian Assange is a whistleblower. So I think. And there have been other obviously other CIA whistleblower people. So I think many of those people are genuine and they really do shine a light on the corruption in the system and the establishment. I mean, perhaps there are white hats in the government as well. Perhaps we don't know those people. They leak things or they bring things out and we don't always know their names. And I don't think everybody in, you know, intelligence or in the military or, you know, is bad or compromised. I think it's the higher you go, the more powerful, the more, you know, Kissinger level people or Brzezinski level people. Those are the real. They call themselves the wise men. That's their terminology for themselves as the sort of oligarchy. Right. So I think the closer you get to those oligarchical power people, the less likely you are to have virtue because they don't see the world that way. They just really see it as all pure nietzschean power politics. So for them there's no virtue that dictates anything in that realm. It's just pure power moves. That's pure real politic. That's how they see it. So, yeah, but I think there have been noble, virtuous people who have opposed this. A lot of journalists have written very powerful exposes and books and histories on this. But usually again, the heroes or the good guys are people at the mid tier and then the rest of the population, right, the higher you go, the more likely you are to be compromised. And at least they try to bring those people in. And that's what you see with Epstein, right, is like they didn't just target like bankers. I mean, they went after celebrities, they went after high level politicians, they went after corporate people, they went after high level scientists. Right. You have those emails between Epstein and Bill Gates talking about pandemic simulations in 2017. So it's every area of society where you have influencers and influential people and they don't even have to get everybody. They just need the key people in those industries. So you don't need every oil magnate, but if you can get a couple key oil magnates, you have a lot of influence in that industry.
- [58:57]
Zuby
Yeah, his name's come up a few times. So can you, can you tell me a little bit more about Kissinger?
- [59:05]
Jay Dyer
Yeah. Henry Kissinger was, he's an interesting figure. He was a, an intelligence officer. I want to, I'm going from memory, I want to say in the army in maybe one of the early conflicts, I forget whether it was like Vietnam or something like that, but I don't think he came from, from, from wealth. And one thing that's interesting about the Western power structure is that it's not always necessarily wealthy people because a lot of people come from a lower to mid, you know, mid, mid class at times that can be recruited into the power structure depending upon their capabilities. So in the case of Henry Kissinger, he was apparently proficient in his intelligence work. And then he went on to do a lot of high level academic stuff. He wrote a thesis on Oswald Spangler, which I think caught the attention of Rockefeller. And so he was immediately recruited by the Rockefellers into kind of being what you could argue is maybe their sort of main legate or attache for many decades. And he was obviously a member of, you know, high level CFR type stuff and then came up with the idea that he proposed to David Rockefeller, Rockefeller for a trilateral commission, which would be a higher level committee for Brzezinski. So he really became the point man and the face of the Rockefellers for many decades. And that's why when you see Kissinger there in all these administrations going back to like Nixon, that's the, the oligarchy in the background, really, you know, As I think he was a national security advisor or maybe he was the. What's the. I forget that I'm going, I'm going blank on the term that like Brzezinski was, you know, the main advisor to Carter and these different presidents. Right. So that's the role that these people kind of play in the background. I mean, we, we see, we saw Brzezinski there from Carter up to Obama. Right. He was Obama's security advisor, you know, so that's a key role for this type of person, you know, at the State Department and other places like that, kind of calling the shots in the background, but not in a secret way, in a semi public, semi private way. So I think that the, the establishment discovered that that model works better than it being totally secret. Why not just have a figure like a Kissinger there for decades, you know, kind of advising the president what the real power structure, namely the billionaires and the trillionaires or whatever you want to say what they want done. So that's who Henry Kissinger is, is one of these, these high level consultants who's actually a legate of the oligarchs.
- [62:06]
Zuby
Gotcha, man. Oh, okay. So when you talk about the oligarchs and the oligarchy and you, you know, I think that term's being used a bit interchangeably with billionaires sometimes. I mean, I'm trying to understand who we are talking about here because obviously not, not, you know, billionaires are not some monolith. Right. Not every single billionaire is. Right. Like not every single billionaire is some weird dude running around with Epstein trying to control the world or, you know, whatever this oligarchy is. So I'm trying to understand like who is in this oligarchy and how big is it? Especially because a lot of billionaires who are public figures obviously were targeted by Epstein and other types. And I kind of assume that if they're being targeted and you're trying to get this dirt on them and bring them into this web, it suggests that they're not necessarily already inside it. Does that make sense?
- [63:10]
Jay Dyer
Yeah, again, yeah. I mean, when I say oligarchy, I'm just referring to what I believe is the real power movers and shakers. Right. One of these people from the Kissinger Group, I think he's from the Kissinger Group, if I recall. His name's David Rothkob and he wrote a book called the Super Class. And he talked about how there's really just a couple thousand people that run the world. And that's what I mean by the oligarchy. Oligarchy is an old term going back to ancient Greece, where you had times where the Greeks would fall under the rule of these tyrants who weren't politicians necessarily. They might just be just wealthy individuals who exercise a tremendous amount of control and power beyond what any democratically elected official might exercise. And if you think about it, it makes a lot of sense, just practically speaking. I mean, if a senator makes, or a congressman makes, you know, 100,000, 200, $300,000 a year, who do you think has more power? Him or a billionaire? I mean, obviously billionaires have a lot more power in our system, especially than some bureaucrat or some legislator. So that's what I typically mean by oligarch. And the thing with oligarchy is that even if they don't like each other, oligarchs can get together and network and have a lot of power as a group or as a semi secret, semi private group beyond what elected officials might have. So when I say the oligarchy, that's what I'm referring to. Not just any billionaire, but specifically, as we said a minute ago, certain ones that are, that are targeted for these types of groups and networks or recruited into them or compromised. There's a lot of different possibilities. And they don't even have to necessarily be personally wealthy. In the case of Kissinger or even Epstein himself. Epstein himself wasn't wealthy, but he was recruited into this and put into positions of power by wealthy people. So sometimes people will talk about bloods and brains, right? So bloods being blue bloods or people that are inheriting or born into a lot of wealth and then brains being people recruited into it, like a Brzezinski or a Kissinger who are exceptionally intelligent, high iq, people who are used by this oligarchy, this wealth structure, to, you know, to further the cause of the oligarchy. A good example of this was some years ago when it came out mainstream media, for example, the Guardian did a big piece on it. I'm not promoting the Guardian, I'm just saying they're a source for this. There was a meeting called the Good Club, and this was Bill Gates, George Soros, Oprah, I forget a few other billionaires that were there and they were meeting to discuss how to further the agenda of depopulation. So that's one example of the types of things.
- [66:14]
Zuby
The Guardian covered this.
- [66:16]
Jay Dyer
Yeah, just look up the Good Club, Bill Gates, Oprah, and you'll get their article on their meeting. And they were just very candid about it. They were like, yeah, we're meeting to discuss how to depopulate the world.
- [66:28]
Zuby
So. Okay, I'm gonna, I'm gonna Google that one.
- [66:30]
Jay Dyer
Yeah, look it up. It's a classic. But you know, there's, there's plenty of other examples. I mean, essentially that's what Bilderberg is. And you have to understand it's not just one group. These are all the same types of steering committee, NGO foundation type groups and meetings that occur all the time. So the same people that go to Bilderberg usually are also members of the cfr, and they're usually also members of the Council on Foreign Relations, and they're usually also, you know, part and parcel of some other group like this. So all of these groups participate in and work together for the Western power structure, which you could call the Atlanticist elite. That's the term that Carol Quigley uses. And that's just a term that comes out of an older British model by a famous geopolitical strategist named Lord Halford Mackinder. And Mackinder is the one that came up with the present, it's still used today, which is the heartland Rimland model of the world. Right. So the, the, this, the perspective here is that to control the world, you need to control what's called the heartland, which is the Eurasian heartland. So because Eurasia is vast, it has most of the world's population, it has a lot of the world's resources. If you can control that, that means you have the upper hand in global power politics. So that's why, for example, Ukraine was really important. And Brzezinski wrote a whole book on this. One of his last books was called Strategic Vision. And in that book he says that to really control the world, we need to control the Eurasian heartland. He said the same thing, by the way, all the way back in his book Grand Chessboard, in I think, the late 90s.
- [68:21]
Zuby
But why do they write these books?
- [68:25]
Jay Dyer
Well, the books are written for that class, the political and intellectual academic class. And. Well, for example, when I was studying a lot of this stuff in grad school, like I went to my library one day because I was a research assistant, so I was working in the library. And before I owned Tragedy and Hope, I checked it out. And my library had Tragic and Hope since like the 1970s. It came out in the late 60s. Right. Guess how many times somebody had checked out that book? When I checked it out in all those decades, I checked it out probably in around 2010 or 11. Guess how many times people checked it out.
- [69:04]
Zuby
So you said in what Time frame
- [69:06]
Jay Dyer
our copy was, I think had been there since the 70s, late 70s. So from the late 70s until 2010, how many times would you think that Tragine Hut was checked out?
- [69:16]
Zuby
Three times?
- [69:18]
Jay Dyer
No, I was the second. And all that's on the second person that had ever checked out the book. Right. So like I said, like a lot of books like that, at least before the Internet, those were, those books were written for academia and for people in government. Right. So they, they weren't written for the public. They're not mass, mass public texts. And even all the way up until Brzezinski's time. Right. Because he passed away, you know, a few years ago, like he would say in interviews and in, because he was in, he was on TV media quite a bit. You know, his daughter Mika Brzezinski is still, I think on msnbc. But like he would say all the time, like the public has a two week attention span at max, so they're not, they're not going to remember the news story from three weeks ago. And we just saw this with Epstein. Like people have already forgotten Epstein.
- [70:11]
Zuby
I hate, I hate that he's correct. He's so great.
- [70:14]
Jay Dyer
Yeah, and that's unfortunate. But you know, that's, that's the, I think the attitude about why they would publish a lot of these big policy papers and books is that they just, I mean they know and they don't think the public will care or do anything about it.
- [70:28]
Zuby
Yeah, it's quite damning. One more question before you, before you round this out is is Hollywood connected to this? And if so, how?
- [70:40]
Jay Dyer
Yeah, absolutely great question. And again, this very question, right, like, was something I found the most, most interesting and fixated me and this is why I wrote, you know, three books on it was precisely because there is this fascinating connection between even the earliest days of Hollywood. Like they were already using movies for propaganda back in the nineteen teens and twenties. Some of the biggest movies, earliest blockbusters, like Howard Hughes's movies like Hell's Angels, those were war propaganda films. So they were already doing propaganda as soon as the camera was invented, basically. And other countries did the same thing. You had people in, you know, Lenny Riefenstahl in Germany, you had his name's Eisenstein in Soviet Russia they were using the camera to film propaganda films right away. So, you know, what happened with Hollywood was that you had what eventually became a studio system where you had, you know, three, four, five, six studios that sort of became the dominant power structure in, in Los Angeles. And a lot of the studio Heads would work with and consult with the, the military and the Pentagon and eventually the OSS and the CIA. So the OSS is the precursor to the CIA from 1942 until 1947. From 1947 on, it's the CIA. But it was. This relationship was so tight that some of the biggest actors in the history of cinema have been spies openly. And a lot of this was only declassified in the last few years. But it's all pretty much on record now. The National Archives just recently, for example, declassified some stuff that, that confirmed a lot of people's theories that you have people like Jimmy Stewart, he was working for the FBI. You had people like Cary Grant, he worked with the oss. The famous director John Ford made movies directly with the oss. In fact, the OSS helped.
- [72:51]
Zuby
What's the oss? I'm not familiar with that.
- [72:54]
Jay Dyer
The OSS is the Office of Strategic Services. That's the predecessor to the CIA. So basically in 1942, you had Bill Donovan set up under FDR, what's called the OSS, which was the advice that British intelligence gave to the administration at that time, that you need your own private secret service or security apparatus. Right. Not for the President himself, but for, for the country to have essentially its own private intelligence apparatus. And, and I would argue, as F. William Engdahl does, that really it's just the Rockefeller's private army is what the. The OSS was. And so Bill Donovan set up this organization after the model of how British intelligence worked. So the British SIS or MI5 and MI6 became the structure for, and the, and the consulting brains behind the OSS, which in 1947 got rebranded and reformatted into the CIA. So basically that structure was also working hand in hand with Hollywood. For example, one of those key figures from British intelligence that helped Donovan set up the OSS was Ian Fleming, who wrote all the Bond stories. So James Bond. Yeah, so that's why I, so I wrote my, my. I never finished my master's thesis, but I published what I did complete in peer review. It's called the many layers of 007, if you want to look it up. But the thesis is about how intelligence was using Bond as a form of propaganda during the Cold War. So those Bond movies are propaganda for those that don't know, for the Cold War. So that's a great example. Probably greatest example of, of all of this is, is James Bond. Right? James Bond is, you know, the Western power structures, intelligence apparatus, usage of an image and a symbol in Hollywood to convey a message to the public during the Cold War. Now I'm not saying that that makes the Soviets good. They're not good. They did the exact same thing. Right. So both the east and the west are utilizing this, you know, this new power of Hollywood for propaganda. In fact, Edward Bernays said that the most powerful engine of propaganda the world's ever seen was Hollywood. So that's why Hollywood is so crucial. It's the modern myth maker, it's the modern storyteller. It gives the population their archetypal paradigm and worldview. Way more so than like the news, Right? The news is important. And of course the CIA had to very quickly have a stranglehold on the news and that's what Operation Mockingbird was under Frank Wisner of the CIA. But for the masses, right? I mean Hollywood plays that role. So. But I want to stress that, you know, it goes beyond just the messaging in the films. I mean it's, it goes as far as the recruiting of a listers to be spies. That to me is fascinating. I mean Sterling Hayden was a famous, you know, 40s era, a Lister and he was an operative for the oss. And then you get into more recent times and nowadays like a lot of a list Hollywood people, they just openly work with the CIA. You have Jennifer Garner was openly a PR for the CIA. Ben Affleck, he made several movies openly in consultation with the ca. Argo, Zero Dark Thirty, American Sniper. I mean there's, there's a whole ton of movies that have just been open. CIA movies basically. So. Absolutely. That's how it works. And that's what I wrote the books about.
- [76:58]
Zuby
Wow. Well J, man, I know that we could, we could literally go for hours and it will definitely have you on the podcast again sometime in the future. But man, yeah, thank you for. I don't know how you, I don't know how you spend so much time researching and learning about all this stuff and talking about it and remain sane, but.
- [77:21]
Jay Dyer
Well, I'm an orthodox Christian. Orthodox Christianity helps me be sane.
- [77:25]
Zuby
So keeps, keeps you rooted, keeps you grounded. No doubt, man. Well, God bless your work and, and thank you for the gift of your time and wisdom. Where can people find and follow you online?
- [77:34]
Jay Dyer
Yeah, my website's jsanalysis.com and it's kind of an archived thing going back about 10 years. I have a member section where all my lectures and talks and deep dives over the last 10 years. You can find those in the archives there. If you become a member. There's a lot of ton of public podcasts interviews, debates at my website and at my channel, jasonalysis.com if you want the books, they're all signed copies in the shop@jay's analysis.com and you can find me on Instagram, X Rumble everywhere else under Jay Dyer.
- [78:04]
Zuby
Awesome. Jay, thanks for coming on the show, man. It's been a pleasure talking to you.