
Opposition is often a sign that God is about to do something new in your life. Past those challenges is a new level of victory.
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Hi, this is Joel in Victoria. Thanks for listening to our podcast and thanks for supporting the ministry.
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Well, God bless you. It's always a joy to come into your homes. We love you and we know God has great things in store for each one of you. If you're ever in our area, I hope you'll stop by and be a part of one of our services. We'd love to have you here. I promise you we'll make you feel right at home. But thanks for tuning in today. I like to get started each week with something funny. And I heard about these three people, a Russian, an American and a blonde. They were talking one day. The Russian proudly said, we were the first ones in space. The American said, we were the first ones on the moon. The blonde said, no big deal, we're going to be the first ones on the sun. The Russian and American laugh said, what are you talking about? You can't land on the sun. It's too hot. You'll burn up, she replied, we're not that dumb. We're going to go at night.
All right, hold up your Bible. Say it like you mean it. This is my Bible. I am what it says I am. I have what it says I have. I can do what it says I can do. Today I will be taught the word of God. I boldly confess. My mind is alert. My heart is receptive. I will never be the same. In Jesus name. God bless you. I want to talk to you today about seeing adversity the right way. Anytime God's about to take you to a new level, you're going to face opposition. There will be new battles to fight, new obstacles to overcome. Maybe people that don't do you right. Some kind of struggle. I heard somebody say, new level, new devil. It's easy to get discouraged and think, why is this happening? Why did they lie about me? Or why didn't I get that promotion? Or why am I having to face this sickness? But if we can just realize right past those challenges is a new level of victory, a new level of success. David would only be known as a shepherd boy if it were not for Goliath. What looked like was his enemy that was meant to destroy him was actually the tool God used to promote him. Many times your enemies will do more and more to catapult you to success than even your friends. I know in my life there have been times when I was down, I didn't see a way out. It looked impossible, but I thought, I cannot give up now. It would make my enemies too happy. And sometimes we can smile not because we want to, not because we feel like it. But we smile because we're not going to give our enemies the pleasure of seeing us down. That person that rejected you did you wrong. You may see him or her. On the inside you're hurting. Down in here, you're discouraged. But on the outside, you've got a smile on your face. You've got a spring in your step. You're not about to let them see you defeated. Not out of pride, not out of spite, but more out of a quiet confidence knowing that you are a child of the most high God. And God would not have allowed it if he didn't have a purpose for it. Deep down, you know when it's all said and done, you're not only going to come out, but you're going to come out promoted, increased, better off than you were before. Keep it in the right perspective. David was called a man after God's own heart. God certainly loved David like he does each one of us. But what did God do? He sent him Goliath. Well, you say, joel, I thought if God loved me this much, I wouldn't be having these struggles. I thought I would sail through life unopposed. No, in fact, because God does love you so much, because he's got such a bright future. He says to one of his angels, find me a Goliath. I'm ready to promote them. The size of your problem is an indication of the size of your future. If you have a big problem, don't get discouraged. That's a sure sign you've got a big future. Whenever God gives us a Goliath, so to speak, he always gives us the strength, the determination, the fortitude to overcome. We will never face a challenge in life that has to defeat us. Even when it's difficult, even when the bottom falls out. In the middle of that adversity, there'll be a supernatural strength, a peace that passes all understanding, a joy rising up in our spirit. God gives us exactly what we need. And I realize there are people that have major illnesses and eventually they're going to go to be with the Lord. But even then, we don't have to spend our last days negative, bitter. I can't believe it. Why is this happening to me? No, we have to make up our minds. We're going to die in faith. We're going to die believing, trusting, in peace, with a smile on our face. And even when we do go to be with the Lord, the truth is we still come out better off than we were before. And I love the fact that David defeated Goliath with less equipment. They tried to put Saul's armor on him, but it was too big. And so David went out to the battlefield. He didn't have a sword, he didn't have a shield. He didn't have helicopters backing him up. He didn't have a radio connected to a command post. All he had was a slingshot and five smooth stones that didn't make sense in the natural. He looked foolish for going out there like that. But when you know who you are and you know whose you are, and you realize that God has armed you with strength for every battle, and you know, God has equipped you, empowered you and anointed you, then you too can defeat a giant equipment. I have a friend that's very successful. He started his company back in the early 1990s. And anytime someone asks him how he got started, he kind of laughs because he began with $150. He didn't have any kind of Credit. He didn't have people behind him. All he had was a dream in his heart. He tried to get a loan from his bank, but they turned him down. They said it wasn't a good idea and that it would never work. He went to another bank, but they turned him down again and again and again. 31 banks told him no, 31 experts said that it would never work out. He had 31 good reasons to just give up and quit. But when God puts a dream in your heart, when he puts a promise on the inside and it doesn't matter if you get rejected 300 times, it doesn't matter what you don't have, doesn't matter how big that giant is. Deep down you know that you and God are a majority friends. You are anointed to accomplish your dreams. You have been equipped by the Creator of the universe to overcome every obstacle. You got to quit looking at what you don't have, at what you do have. The same power that raised Christ from the dead lives on the inside of you. You are well able. And what's interesting is the 32nd bank decided to take a chance on him today. That young man runs a multimillion dollar company that he started. Like him, like David, you can defeat a giant with less equipment. Here's what that means. You can overcome that illness. Even though they say there is no medical treatment. God can become your treatment. His word can be like medicine to you. It means that you can accomplish your dreams even though you don't think you have the funds, the resources, the know how God's favor can open up the right doors. You may have had 31 people tell you no, but you keep believing number 32 is on the way. One time in the Old Testament, this huge army was about to attack this certain city. They were camped not far away, just making plans for the attack. And four men from this other city, they were actually lepers. They figured they were probably going to get killed in the attack anyway. And so instead of just staying there, they decided to go check it out. And they started walking toward the enemy's camp in the natural. It was an impossible situation. They were as good as dead. But these four men had just a little bit of faith. A faith that says even though we're outnumbered a thousand to one, we're going to take a chance and see what our God will do. As they got closer to the enemy's camp, the scripture says God caused the sound of their footsteps to be multiplied. And to the enemy, it sounded like a huge army was coming against them. Here, these four men didn't even realize what was happening. They didn't hear anything special. They just kept on walking. There, eight feet in all back of their mind, they're thinking, we're about to be captured. We're going to probably lose our life. But when you dare take some steps of faith, even when it looks impossible, even when 31 banks have told you no, even when you don't have the education or the connections, and if you'll take those steps of faith, God will take what you have and multiply it. You may not see anything happening. It may not look like you're making progress. Nothing's getting any better. But what you don't realize is, behind the scenes, God's arranging things in your favor. He's multiplying what you need. He's causing people to hear what he wants them to hear. You may not have the funds, but he's getting the funds lined up. You may not have the connections, but he's arranging the right people. Your enemy may be powerful, but all it takes is one smooth stone. Or who knows? All you may need is the sound of your feet. No, I didn't say the smell of your feet. This army got so afraid, they thought hundreds of thousands of troops were coming against them. They thought they were about to be wiped out. And they took off running. These four men, they thought, what in the world is going on? They asked somebody, they said, haven't you heard? We're being attacked by a vast army. You got to run for your life. It was at that point they realized they were the vast army. God multiplied the sound of their footsteps. When you stay in faith, God will cause people to see you the way he wants you to be seen. You may feel weak. You may not feel like you have what it takes. But here's the secret. Don't act on what you feel. Act on what you know. Up here, you may feel afraid, but down in here, you know no weapon formed against you is ever going to prosper. Up here, you may think I don't have what it takes, but down in here, you know you can do all things through Christ. Up here, you may think that I'm so outnumbered I don't have a chance to. But down in here, you know if God be for you, who dare be against you, if you'll learn to act on what you know instead of what you feel, then God will multiply what you have. Just like David. You will defeat giants with less equipment. That means we should never say, I don't have enough money. I don't have the connections. I don't have the talent. I'm just not that confident. Joel. No. You have exactly what you need. Like these four men, you don't know how God is causing you to be seen. You may feel weak. You may feel intimidated. But because of God's anointing on your life, everyone you encounter, they think you're as strong as can be. Why is that? God is multiplying what you have. He's causing people to see you the way he wants you to be seen. Do yourself a favor. Don't go around telling everyone how you feel. Just stay in agreement with God. I've known people. They were about to get a promotion, about to go to a new level, but they'll tell the supervisor, I don't know if I can do this. I'm just not that confident. Sometimes I can get overwhelmed. That's like those four men telling the other side, why are you running? There's just four of us, and we're scared to death of you. Oh. Sometimes you've got to zip it up. Don't tell anyone how you feel. Don't explain what's going on in your mind. Just stand there with your shoulders back like you own the world. Quiet, confident, secure. Knowing that God is causing people to see you the way he wants you to be seen. This is what I did. When my father went to be with the Lord and I first started ministering. People used to say to me, joy, you seem so calm up there. It just comes out so easily. You can tell. It just flows naturally to you. I'd think to myself, you don't know how wrong you are. I was nervous, insecure, intimidated. Half the time I didn't know if I was making sense. Still wonder that sometimes. But I've learned when to talk and when to be quiet. Some people would say, no, that's not me. I'm all wrought up on the inside. It's just so difficult. They undo it all. It's much better to just stay in agreement with God all through the day. You need to remind yourself, God is multiplying my strength. He's multiplying my confidence. He's multiplying my talents. You may feel one way, but you remember because you're in faith. God's causing people to see you the way he wants you to be seen. I love what God said to Moses. He was out in the desert, leading 2 million people, trying to get them to the promised land. They didn't have any equipment. They didn't have any swords, any shields. They had Just come out of slavery. They weren't even trained to fight. How were they supposed to protect themselves? Looked like they could be easily conquered by their enemies. One day, Moses was real down and discouraged. People were complaining to him. He was just about ready to give up. And God said, moses, what do you have in your hand? He was holding a rod. He said, in effect, oh, nothing, God. Just an old stick, Something I picked up along the way. God said, throw it down on the ground. He threw it down and it turned into a snake. God said, pick it up. He picked it up and it turned back into a rod. What was God saying? You have whatever you need. It may look like a rod, but if it needs to be a key to open a door, I'll turn it into a key. If it needs to be a shield to protect you, I'll turn it into a shield. If it needs to be healing to restore you, I'll turn it into that. You gotta quit looking at what you don't have. God is saying, I can become what you need. I can turn a rod into a snake. I can turn four footsteps and have them sound like a vast army. I can cause a city council to vote for you and give you a compact center.
I can heal you of an illness, even though medical science says it's impossible. Let me ask you, what do you have in your hand? Well, you say, joel, I've just got a high school diploma, man. I'll never go very far. I'm not that talented. Or my enemies are so big, I've got so many obstacles. No, you got to get out of that defeated mindset. God is saying, you have everything you need. I've given you my name. I've given you my word. I've equipped you. I've anointed you. I'm going before you, making crooked places straight. Goodness and mercy are following you. My favor's constantly surrounding you like a shield. You got to rise up and see yourself, person God made you to be. You may not feel like you can do it in your own strength, but that's okay. When we are weak, he is strong. When we don't see a way out, he can make a way out. When all we have is a slingshot and five smooth stones, we can still defeat a Goliath. And if you'll stay in faith and have this victor mentality, then God will fight your battles for you. He'll become what you need. I read a story that took place during World War II. It was the middle of a night, and this Marine got separated from his unit. The fighting was so intense and the smoke so heavy. He became disoriented and he lost all contact with his comrades. He was alone in the jungle and he could hear the enemy soldiers getting closer and closer. He saw a ridge that had a bunch of caves up there. And he decided to run up. And he hid in one of those caves, hoping that he wouldn't be found. He began to pray and ask God for help, ask him for protection, to somehow spare his life. About that time, he saw a spider drop down over the entry of the cave and start to spin a web. He kind of laughed and said, God, I need a brick wall and you send me a spider. As he sat there for a couple of hours, what seemed like an eternity, he watched that spider spin layer after layer on that web. He could hear the enemy soldiers 500 yards away checking that cave. The next one, the next, the next. He braced himself and got ready for his final stand. But when the soldiers came to his cave, one of them noticed the huge spider web over the entry. And he said, we don't need to check in here. No one could have gone in without disturbing this web Passed on by God. Supernaturally protected his life. He later said how he had to say, God, forgive me when I saw that spider. I laughed. But now realize with you, a spider's web can be stronger than a brick wall. Friends, God has us in the palm of his hand. He has everything you need. And even if he doesn't have it, he can create it. He can cause a spider to show up at the right time and spin a web and keep you out of trouble. He can cause one smooth stone to hit a giant at the exact right spot and bring him down. He can cause a loved one to turn on the television at the exact right time and hear something to change his life. God is in complete control that adversity. It was never meant to defeat you. It was meant to promote you. When you have a problem, it's easy to think, man, this is too big. I can't do it. It's just too much. But understand, God never matches the problem to your size. He matches it to the size of your destiny. So if you're facing a big challenge, keep it in the right perspective. Don't get discouraged, be encouraged. That's simply God setting you up for a major promotion, major increase. But if you run from your problems, get negative and sour. Really, you're running from your destiny. But if you'll learn to run to your problem, face it in faith, knowing that God's in control, knowing that he can become what you need, then you are running to your destiny. Goliath may be big, but his purpose was never to defeat you. It was to promote you. Right past that giant is a new level of victory. And it's interesting, after Goliath was defeated, we don't hear anything more about him. Now I'm not sure I understand the theology of this all, but I believe that Goliath was created for David's purpose. He was created to establish who David was. And when we face giants in life, a giant of sickness, a giant of an addiction, that giant is not only there to promote you, but it's there to show others who you really are. When they see God's favor on your life, when they see you rise above that adversity, when they see you accomplish your God given dreams, when they see that little spider keep you from harm, that not only honors God, but that will help establish and even prove God's anointing in your life. And people can argue over whether or not they think you deserve it, whether or not they think you're talented, or even whether or not they think you're doctrinally correct. But one thing for sure, when you defeat a Goliath in your life, they cannot argue over the fact that God's favor is on you. It's like that blind man that Jesus healed. The religious crowd got all upset and they started arguing over why he was healed and how he was healed, who was to blame for him being blind in the first place. On and on they were asking him all these questions. Finally the blind man said, listen guys, y' all are confusing me. I can't answer all your questions. All I can tell you is this. I was blind, but now I can see. He was saying, in effect, the proof of the pudding is in the eating. He was saying, you can argue all day long, but I know the reason I can see is because of God's goodness in my life. And I know some people today, they don't think we're supposed to be blessed. Some people don't think that God wants us to prosper and live in victory. But the problem with that is it's too late to convince me. Because God's already blessed me. He's already prospered me. He's already opened up supernatural doors. Some people don't believe that God can still heal, but it's too late to convince me. I've already seen how God healed my mother of terminal cancer in 1981.
Some people don't think that your Dreams can come to pass, Joy. You're just getting people's hopes up. It's too late to convince me I'm living my dream. I've seen God do more than I could even ask or think. You're Goliath. In life, those adversity are not only going to establish to yourself, it's going to establish to others who you really are. It's going to prove God's anointing on your life. And sure, you're going to have naysayers, people that doubt you and say, oh, she's not that talented. He doesn't deserve that position. Or why did he marry her? She's not that attractive. No, they've got more than talent. They've got more than looks. They've got the favor of God. It's his anointing on their life. David said here in Psalm 3, verse 1, Lord, how are they increased that trouble me? He was saying, God, it looks like my enemies are multiplying. Have you ever been there? You get through one adversity and seems like something else comes against you. You finally make it through one sickness and you find out something else is wrong. My father, when he got up there in years, he had a few health issues and he used to say, I get one end fixed and the other end acts up. But even at work, maybe you go the extra mile, do the right thing, try to keep the peace. But then you find out the people that you thought were your friends are talking behind your back, stirring up trouble. Like that old saying, when it rains, it pours. That's how David felt. The reason he wrote this passage is because his son Absalom was trying to kill him and take over the kingdom. I'm sure David must have thought, God, I can take a lot of things. I killed a lion and a bear with my own hands. I defeated Goliath with a slingshot. God, I stayed faithful and did the right thing when Saul was trying to kill me. But God, I just don't know if I can take this. My own son is trying to bring me down. Sometimes in life we think, I can make it. If my neighbor's against me, I can dig my heels in and be strong if it's my co worker or my boss or my competitor. But when it's our own family, when it's our own flesh and blood, it's easy to think, God, this is just not right. I don't know if I can go on. David could have been overwhelmed. This could have been the point to where David faded off into the Sunset. The straw that broke the camel's back to where we didn't hear any more about this man named David. But the reason David was a champion, the reason he overcame every obstacle, can be found in verse three. He didn't just stop with his problem. He didn't just describe the situation, talk about how bad it was. He changed his focus. He said, in effect, God, I'm having all these problems. This is the worst thing I've ever faced. Here it comes. Verse 3. But you, O Lord, are a shield unto me the glory and the lifter of my head. What's the message? Ever let the enemy have the last word? Sure, there are times where we say, man, the doctor's report doesn't look good. I don't feel well. Don't really see how I'm going to make it. But you, O Lord, I know you can make a way. Always add the buck. Yes, I'm going through tough times, but I know God's going to see me through. Yes, gas prices are high, but I know he's Jehovah Jireh. He's going to supply all of my needs. Or how about this? Yes, I've had this addiction a long time, but I know it's only temporary. My chains are broken. Whom the sun sets free is free indeed. Too often we leave out the but. Well, Joel, I've just been through so much. It's unfair. Yes, but God said he would pay you back double for that injustice. Yeah, but my problems are so big. Goliath is so large. Yes, but God said when the enemy comes in like a flood, and he would raise up a barrier, don't allow the enemy to have the last word. I know some of you right now you're in the middle of a struggle. But you've got to have the right perspective. That challenge was never meant to destroy you. It was meant to promote you. The very fact that it's happening lets me know that your destiny is within reach. When David faced Goliath, deep down he knew something great was about to happen. He didn't get discouraged. He got encouraged by it. In the same way. I'll just declare it, when you come through that adversity, you're going to be at a new level. You're going to see God's favor like you've never seen it before. That problem is going to be the catalyst for God to open up supernatural doors. It's not only going to establish who you are and give you more confidence. It's going to prove to others God's anointing in your life. I challenge you to be strong in the Lord. Put on the whole armor of God. If you'll get up each day knowing not only who you are, but whose you are, no obstacle will be able to hold you back what was meant for your harm. God will turn around and use to your advantage that thing you're struggling with right now because you're in faith, because you've got your trust in the Most High, it is not going to defeat you. It's going to promote you. You're going to come out better off than you were before. I speak strength into you. I speak encouragement. I speak health. I speak favor. I speak determination. I speak new levels of increase. I declare victory over each one of your lives in the name of Jesus. If you receive it, can you say Amen?
We never like to close our broadcast without giving you an opportunity to make Jesus the Lord of your life. Would you pray with me? Just say Lord Jesus, I repent of my sins. Come into my heart. I make you my Lord and Savior. Friends, if you prayed that simple prayer, we believe you got born again. Get in a good Bible based church. Keep God first place. He's going to take you places that you've never dreamed of.
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What if every plan you set, every habit you formed and every decision you made became a pathway to see God move in your life?
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We all have hopes and dreams, things we're believing for when you start the year in faith expecting God's goodness, you are setting the tone for a blessed.
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New year and we'd love to send.
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You our 2026 faith for today planner. You can write down your dreams and goals and plan plus use it for your everyday activities and reminders.
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It's important to feed your faith on a daily basis.
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This planner.
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It's not just a calendar. It's filled with scriptures and inspiration to help you stay encouraged and keep believing for what God has put in your heart.
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2026 is your year to see the goodness of God in greater ways, let go of what didn't work out and get ready for the new things God.
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Has in store as our way of saying thank you for your gift of any amount. This month we would like to send you a copy of the 20 Faith for Today planner. Each month features a fresh theme of encouragement. A guiding scripture to stand on Room to write your goals, prayers and vision. Space for faith steps because faith isn't passive, it's active. A monthly QR code linking to a message or video to keep your spirit lifted. With the 2026 Faith for Today planner, you'll be reminded that living by faith makes room for God to do what only he can do. Breakthrough in your business. God's Healing Touch Loved ones returning to faith Request your copy of the Planner and step into the new year with bold faith, fresh hope and daily encouragement to strengthen your spirit and face every challenge with confidence.
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No matter what's happening around you, faith can rise up in you. Keep believing and expecting a blessed 2026 Victoria and I pray for you and your family every day. Thank you so much for your prayer and support. Your generosity is helping people around the world. As we finish this year, I hope you'll consider making a special year end gift to help keep the ministry strong. We so appreciate all the Champion of Hope partners for your monthly support. We wish you and your family a very merry Christmas till we see you next time. May the Lord bless you and keep you.
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Be sure to request your copy of the 2026 Faith for Today Planner, visit jolostein.com or call 888-567-joel for a special Year end gift. This month we are also offering the Faith to Share Bundle. Keep one Give one Give the gift of faith, focus and fresh hope for someone special in your life. You can also request the God's Word Work Study Collection. This empowering collection includes the niv, the Message Parallel Bible, a beautifully crafted leather bookmark and pen, and how to read your Bible and enjoy it, along with two planners. You can request these inspiring resources by calling 888-567-JOEL or logging on to joellostein.com today. Call or click anytime 24 hours a day. Stay organized, encouraged and full of faith all year long. Request these resources today.
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Hey there, it's Kelly Ripa. And if you've been listening to my podcast, we are knee deep in Season three. And if you haven't heard it, it's time to get on board. After years of interviewing celebs on camera, I finally get to bring you the real conversations that take place when cameras aren't rolling. Where else are you going to hear Michelle Obama talk about keeping her girls out of Page Six? Hilaria Baldwin's hilarious reaction to Alec running for office, or Jeremy Renner's lucid hallucinations about Jamie Foxx? Nowhere else. It's raw, it's honest, and best of all, it's off camera. And believe me, that's where you get the good stuff. So download. Let's talk Off Camera with Kelly Rupa now. Wherever you get your podcasts, did you.
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Host: Joel Osteen
Date: December 5, 2025
Episode Theme: Embracing adversity as a catalyst for spiritual growth, promotion, and the revelation of God’s favor in your life.
In this message, Joel Osteen explores the concept of facing adversity through a lens of faith and expectation. He teaches that challenges are not meant to defeat us, but are often the very tools God uses to elevate us to new levels. Drawing from the biblical story of David and Goliath, personal anecdotes, and inspiring stories, Joel encourages listeners to maintain confidence, refuse defeat, and trust in God's purposeful timing—even when circumstances seem impossible.
"David would only be known as a shepherd boy if it were not for Goliath. What looked like his enemy... was actually the tool God used to promote him." — Joel Osteen (03:31)
"The size of your problem is an indication of the size of your future. If you have a big problem, don't get discouraged. That's a sure sign you've got a big future." — Joel (05:00)
"You can defeat a giant with less equipment." — Joel (08:11)
"When you dare take some steps of faith, even when it looks impossible... God will take what you have and multiply it." — Joel (12:56)
"You have whatever you need. It may look like a rod, but if it needs to be a key to open a door, I'll turn it into a key." — Joel (16:24)
"With you, a spider's web can be stronger than a brick wall." — Joel recounting the Marine's realization (18:56)
"God never matches the problem to your size. He matches it to the size of your destiny." — Joel (20:39)
"When you defeat a Goliath in your life, they cannot argue over the fact that God's favor is on you." — Joel (22:59)
"Don't allow the enemy to have the last word. Always add the ‘but God’." — Joel (25:30)
"When you know who you are and you know whose you are, and you realize that God has armed you with strength for every battle... you too can defeat a giant." (07:45)
"Some people would say, no, that's not me. I'm all wrought up on the inside... It's much better to just stay in agreement with God." (14:36)
"Sometimes in life we think, I can make it if my neighbor's against me… but when it's our own family... it's easy to think, God, this is just not right." (24:16)
"Some people don't believe that God can still heal, but it's too late to convince me. I've already seen how God healed my mother of terminal cancer in 1981." (23:20)
"That challenge was never meant to destroy you. It was meant to promote you. The very fact that it's happening lets me know that your destiny is within reach." (27:35)
| Time | Segment | |-----------|---------------------------------------------------------------------| | 02:29 | Main Message Introduction — Facing Adversity | | 05:00 | “The size of your problem is the size of your future.” | | 08:11 | David defeats Goliath with less equipment | | 11:00 | Modern story: 31 banks say no, 32nd says yes | | 12:56 | Story of four lepers and “multiplied” footsteps | | 16:24 | Moses’ rod: What you have is enough | | 18:56 | WWII Marine and the spider’s web | | 20:39 | Problems matched to destiny, not your size | | 22:59 | “They cannot argue over the fact that God’s favor is on you.” | | 24:16 | When adversity comes from family — David and Absalom | | 27:35 | “The challenge was never meant to destroy you, but to promote you.” | | 29:24 | Invitation to faith and closing prayer |
If you receive it, can you say Amen? (28:45)