Joseph Goldstein needs no introduction. For over forty years, Joseph has been one of the most consequential meditation teachers on the planet, helping usher – along with a handful of westerners – the dharma’s migration to western soil.

I first met Joseph in the kitchen at the Insight Meditation Society in Barre, Massachusetts. I was a work retreatant at the time (2002), when suddenly I realized that Joseph Goldstein was also in the kitchen.

“Hi, I’m Joseph. Are you the new cook?”

“No,” I said, self-consciously breaking my silence. “I’m a work retreatant.”

“Sorry to interrupt your retreat,” Joseph said. “Thank you for your service.”

In a moment, we pressed our palms in prayer fashion before our hearts, and then Joseph walked away with his quiet, unassuming manner.

Joseph recently celebrated his 80th birthday, and in honor of his birthday and the tremendous impact of his life, I wanted to finally publish the wide-ranging and personal conversation we had last fall about the “roots and flowers on the path.”

Joseph and I shared two close friends: Michael Brooks and Jack Engler. Michael died four years ago this July, and Jack died just over a year ago in March of 2023. I met both Michael and Jack through Joseph’s work. Michael was my first dharma brother and co-author, and we met at IMS. Jack was one of my dharma fathers, a therapist and mentor to me for over fifteen years, whom I met after a two-month retreat in Burma with Sayadaw U Pandita. All three of these men have had an enormous influence on my practice, teaching and life.

It was a profound honor to sit down with Joseph on the Everyday Sublime Podcast. I was nervous – no question, and the audio had a few glitches. But I felt like I was sitting down with my favorite uncle, a gentle giant of wisdom and compassion, listening and learning about members of my beloved spiritual family: Michael, Jack, Munindra, Dipa Ma and Sayadaw U Pandita.

In 2010, I wrote a profile on Joseph for the Columbia University alumni magazine, and I include the final paragraph here:

Goldstein’s work has influenced everything from Buddhist-informed psychotherapy to mindfulness-based stress reduction programs to cutting edge research on meditation and neuroscience. Columbia’s preeminent Tibetan Buddhist scholar, the Jey Tsong Khapa Professor of Indo-Tibetan Buddhist Studies in the Department of Religion Robert Thurman affirms, “Joseph has been a great teacher for many, many people, helping them enormously. His recent book, One Dharma, has been influential in reducing divisiveness and sectarianism in the extremely diverse American Buddhist community. The Insight Meditation Society has been an important force in American culture, and it is well positioned to carry on its work for generations. All in all, Joseph is an American Buddhist ‘Venerable.’ ”

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Episode Summary:

In this special episode, I speak with Joseph Goldstein, meditation teacher and co-founder of the Insight Meditation Society. We reminisce about our relationships with Michael Brooks and Jack Engler, two very influential individuals in the dharma world. Joseph shares his experiences working with Michael as a mentor and discusses the integration of spirituality and activism in Michael’s life. Joseph also discusses his time with Jack Engler and how Joseph guided Jack through the stages of insight on the very first three-month retreat in North America in Bucksport, Maine. The conversation then shifts to Joseph’s experiences in India and Burma, where he studied with his renowned teachers Munindra-ji, Dipa Ma, Mahasi Sayadaw and Sayadaw U Pandita. We compare experiences we had while working with U Pandita and the importance of deepening one’s practice in a single method before integrating other practices. We also explore the concept of One Dharma and how to navigate the multitude of Dharma streams available in the West. Our conversation concludes with Joseph’s advice for aspiring meditation teachers.

Links mentioned:

Insight Meditation Society: https://www.dharma.org/

Joseph Goldstein’s book: One Dharma

The Buddha’s Playbook, by Michael Brooks and Josh Summers

The late Michael Brooks’ podcast: The Michael Brooks Show

The late Jack Engler’s essays on the Progress of Insight: Practicing for Awakening Part 1, Practicing for Awakening Part 2

On Dipa Ma: Dipa Ma, The Life and Legacy of a Buddhist Master

On Munindra: Living This Life Fully, Stories and Teachings of Munindra