← Legends of the Old West
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- [00:02]
Kaley Cuoco
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- [00:30]
Ryan Reynolds
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- [00:45]
Kaley Cuoco
Okay, one judgment anyway.
- [00:49]
Ryan Reynolds
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- [00:52]
Chris Wimmer
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- [01:14]
Ryan Reynolds
Baird was probably bored on the afternoon of November 1, 1892. He was a cashier at the Ford county bank in Spearville, Kansas. Nothing happened in Spearville, and the minutes passed at a snail's pace. Spearville existed because of the Atchison, Topeka and Santa Fe Railway. Where the railroad went, prosperity followed, and it resulted in towns popping up along the tracks. Some towns grew rapidly, while others remained sleepy hamlets. One of the sleepy hamlets was Spearville. That was at least in part because it was only 15 miles up the tracks from its much more famous neighbor, Dodge City. It was situated halfway between Dodge and Kinsley, the tiny community where Dirty Dave Rudabaugh and his gang tried and failed to rob a train on the Santa fe Railroad in 1878. By the 1880s, Spearville could only boast about 100 permanent residents, most of whom made their living offering hospitality to weary travelers. The town had witnessed little turmoil until November 1, 1892. While Baird relaxed in the Ford county bank, three riders trotted into Spearville. One had a sandy beard and a medium build. Another had a similar build, but he was younger and had dark hair. The third was notably smaller, and his entire appearance was dark, from his clothes to his whiskers to his eyes. The three men were strangers to Spearville, and they directed their horses to the bank. One of the men remained outside while the other two dismounted, put on masks and strolled through the door. As Baird looked up, the two masked men broke his probable boredom by drawing pistols from their holsters and pointing them at the frightened cashier. The robbers directed Baird to hand over all of the cash and treasury notes in the cashier's drawer. Whether on purpose or for the sake of speed, the outlaws did not order Baird to open the bank's vault. When the bandits had the money from the drawer, they hustled outside and climbed onto their horses, which were being held by the third outlaw. As the robbers kicked their horses and galloped out of town, news of the hold up traveled fast. In a tiny town like Spearville, it only took a few seconds. Townsfolk immediately formed a posse and chased the bandits. According to a local report, the posse and the bandits fired at least 15 shots at each other as they cleared the town limits. As the outlaws charged into the prairie south of town, the posse hoped to trap the robbers at Coon Creek and if not there, then the Arkansas river farther south. As the chase continued into the dusty, broken terrain of southern Kansas, the outlaws and the posse continued to fire at each other. But no one was injured or killed. Despite the best efforts of the posse, the three outlaws managed to evade their potential captors. The defeated posse returned to Spearville where they alerted the authorities. A $450 reward was offered by the Ford county bank for the capture of the desperados. The business had lost about $1,700 in cash and $1,500 in treasury notes. Sleepy Spearville, Kansas achieved notoriety as the first community to be robbed by members of one of the last major outlaw gangs of the American west, the Doolin Dalton Gang. From Black Barrel Media, this is Legends of the Old West. I'm your host, Chris Wimmer. In this season, we're telling the stories of infamous outlaws, Charlie Bowles, better known as Black Bart, Dirty Dave Rudabaugh and the Doolin Dalton Gang. This is episode five, the Doolin Dalton Gang Part one. Battle of Ingalls the Doolin Dalton Gang boasted an infamous collection of thieves and killers. As the Old west slipped away and the US Congress declared the frontier settled, the gang raised hell and tried to prove otherwise. At the heart of the gang, at least for a little while, were the two Bills, Bill Doolin and Bill Dalton. Doolin was from Arkansas and was born right before the Civil War. Dalton was from Cass County, Missouri and and was born in the middle of the war to a huge family. There were nine brothers in the Dalton family and half of them wouldn't live to see old age. Bill Dalton's mother was Adaline Younger, the aunt of the legendary outlaws Cole, John, Jim and Bob Younger. The Younger brothers also lived in Cass county and after the war they joined forces with the James brothers, Frank and Jesse to create the most formative outlaw gang of the era. But during the early days of the James Younger gang, Bill Doolan and Bill Dalton were still in short pants. By the time Doolin and Dalton were old enough to start making their own lives, the Younger brothers were in prison in Minnesota as a result of the Northfield raid and Jesse James had less than a year to live. In the early 1880s, Bill Doolin left home to become a cowboy and Bill Dalton left home to join his brothers on the West Coast. In 1881, at the age of 23, Doolin left Arkansas for Oklahoma. Oklahoma was still called Indian Territory until 1890 and the region was in need of cowboys. Doolin quickly found work driving cattle herds across the rough terrain. It was a hard way to make a living and it wasn't difficult to see why. Notable cowboys of the west started their careers as cowboys and then gave it up in favor of making easier money. The transition took a long time for Bill Doolin, but along the way he met two fellow cowboys who would join him on the other side of the law. Bill Blake, known as Tulsa Jack, and Dan Clifton, known as Dynamite Dick. The crossover point for Bill Doolin seemed to be the 4th of July 1891 in Coffeyville, Kansas, a town which would soon be linked to the Dalton name for all time. Supposedly, Doolin and some cowboys were drunk and celebrating. Two lawmen from the town marshal's office confronted the cowboys. Both sides drew their guns and opened fire. The two lawmen were wounded and and Bill Doolin hightailed it out of Coffeyville. He was now on the outlaw trail and he would soon end up with the Dalton brothers and a few others. The Daltons had recently robbed a train in Oklahoma, but their path to infamy started in California. Bill Dalton left home in 1884 when he was 20 years old and he headed west to join several of his brothers in California. He worked as a mule driver and soon he got married and started a family. He lived a normal life for about six years until three more brothers showed up. Bob Gratt and Emmett Dalton headed to California. After forsaking reputable careers in Oklahoma Territory. Bob and Gratt had short lived careers as U.S. marshals along with their brother Frank. In 1887, Frank. Frank Dalton was killed while pursuing an outlaw. Bob and Gratt, along with their younger brother Emmett soon resorted to questionable activities, which included rustling. In 1890, Bob and Emmett were wanted for stealing horses, so they fled to California. Gratt followed shortly thereafter, and they all reunited at Bill Dalton's ranch near San Miguel in San Luis Obispo County. In February 1891, about a month after Gratz showed up, Bob and Emmett robbed a train about 80 miles east of Bill's ranch and then hustled back to the ranch to lay low. That started the trouble for the four Dalton brothers. Railroad detectives managed to get all four brothers indicted for the robbery. Bob and Emmett escaped California with Bill's help and worked their way back to Oklahoma. There, In May of 1891, Bob and Emmett robbed a train in a town called Wharton, which was later changed to Perry. Back in California, Bill and Gratt were embroiled in a legal saga that lasted months. The charges against Bill were eventually dismissed, and he moved his wife and kids in with his wife's parents and headed to Oklahoma. For Gratt, the legal saga never really stopped. He was convicted for a murder he didn't commit, and he finally escaped California around Christmas 1891. By the time he reunited with his brothers, Bob and Emmett had successfully formed an outlaw gang, and the gang had committed its first train robbery.
- [10:36]
Chris Wimmer
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- [11:56]
Kaley Cuoco
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- [12:28]
Ryan Reynolds
Bob and Emmett began assembling a gang of outlaws as soon as they made it back to Oklahoma in the spring of 1891. The first two recruits were George Newcomb and Charlie Bryant, and it was that four man squad who robbed a train near Wharton in May of 1891. Afterward, the gang expanded to include Dick Broadwell, Bill Power, also called Bill Powers, Charlie Pierce, and Bill Doolin. Lastly, Bob's sometime girlfriend, Eugenia Moore, acted as a spy for the gang. In August 1891, three months after the Wharton robbery, the gang lost its first member. Deputy U.S. marshal Ed Short captured Charlie Bryant and bundled the outlaw onto a train for transport to Kansas. Soon after the trip began, Bryant grabbed a pistol that had been carelessly left within reach and tried to escape. Bryant and Short ended up shooting and killing each other. A month later, on September 15, 1891, the gang held up a train at the remote station of Lilietta, Oklahoma, north of the town of Wagoner. It was a relatively smooth robbery. No gunfire was exchanged and the passengers readily complied with the outlaws. The gang stole $19,000, which would be more than 600,000 today. The robbery netted a substantial return, but it also caused a fissure in the group. Bill Doolin expressed frustration with Bob Dalton's leadership. Bob was apparently bad with money, and Doolin claimed that Bob was not dividing the loot fairly. Bob was keeping more money for himself in order to pay off his debts or to keep gambling. After the Lilietta robbery, Bill Doolin went his own way for about 10 months or so. Doolin partnered with an outlaw named Henry Starr. For at least some of that time. Starr was primarily a bank robber, and it appears as though he wasn't wild about robbing trains. Doolin was more interested in robbing trains at that stage of his career, and the two men eventually parted ways. During that period, Bob Emmett and Bill Dalton welcomed their brother Gratt back to Indian Territory, Oklahoma. Gratt had escaped custody in California and made it to Oklahoma by the spring of 1892. By that time it had been at least six months since the Lilietta train robbery, and the gang was starting to Run low on money. On June 1, 1892, a gang of seven men held up a train near Red Rock, Oklahoma. Although the gang took $50,000 worth of valuables, most of the haul consisted of checks that the gang couldn't use. The outlaws ended up with just $1,800 in cash, so they needed to strike again as soon as possible. Six weeks later, the gang was in Adair, Oklahoma, a small settlement near the Arkansas border. It's generally accepted that the Adair robbery featured the full lineup of the gang. Bob Emmett and Grat Dalton, plus Bill Doolin, George Newcomb, Bill Power, Dick Broadwell and Charlie Pierce. At that time, Bill Dalton was still acting as a spy for the gang and a source of disinformation to confuse the authorities. On July 14, the Dalton gang committed its final train robbery, and it featured a blazing shootout. The train rolled into adair station around 9:45pm Most of the gang members boarded the train, broke into the express car and looted everything they could find. They pulled a stolen wagon up to the car and started loading their treasure. Before they were finished, eight train guards opened fire from the windows of one of the cars. Some of the guards made it off the train and continued the firefight from the platform. As the outlaws climbed onto their horses to escape, the gang charged through town and maintained their gun battle with the guards. Three guards were wounded and two innocent bystanders in town, both of whom were doctors, were injured during the escape. One of the doctors later died of his wounds. The gang managed to steal about $18,000, but most of the outlaws wouldn't have time to spend their shares. Two and a half months later, five members of the gang rode into Coffeyville, Kansas with an ambitious plan for a double robbery. The cataclysmic result would lead to the remaining members forming a new gang, one that would eventually bring Bill Dalton off the sidelines and into the action for the first time. By the fall of 1892, the Dalton Gang was the most wanted group in the Southern plains and probably the entire country. U.S. marshals were hot on their trail, and the gang decided to take a major gamble. They decided to rob two banks at the same time, in broad daylight. The robbery featured five members of the gang, though there has always been speculation that they started with six. It's been widely repeated over the years that Bill Doolin was with the group right before it rode into Coffeyville. Ultimately, he didn't go along, if he was there at all. George Newcomb and Charlie Pierce also stayed away. Like Bill Doolin, the Reason for their absence remains a mystery, though it was lucky for all three that they weren't there. A little after 9am on October 5, 1892, Bob Gratt and Emmett Dalton, along with Dick Broadwell and Bill Power, rode into Coffeyville, Kansas to rob the C.M. condon and Company bank and the First National Bank. Within about 30 minutes, the town of Coffeyville would be etched into the legends of American lore and the Dalton gang would be gone. The five outlaws stationed their horses in an alley that emptied into the heart of town. They walked down the alley, split into two groups and headed for their respective banks. Grant Dalton, Bill Power and Dick Broadwell entered the Condon bank while Bob and Emmett continued to cross the street to the First National. The gang successfully held up both banks, but some quick thinking by an employee at the Condon bank caused a crucial delay of about 10 minutes. During those 10 minutes, news of the robberies spread through town. Before the outlaws could exit the banks, townspeople grabbed their guns and prepared to confront the robbers. The outlaws battled their way out of the banks and back to the alley where they had stashed their horses. In the process, the gang killed three civilians on the streets of town. In the alley, which is now known as Death Alley, the town marshal was killed and three gang members fell. Bob Dalton, Gratt Dalton and Bill Power died in the alley. Dick Broadwell was badly wounded, but managed to climb onto his horse and ride a half a mile out of town before he collapsed and died. Emmett Dalton suffered more than 20 gunshot wounds in the alley, but he survived. He was convicted of his role in the infamous Coffeyville raid and he spent the next 14 years in prison. With that, the old Dalton gang was finished. After news of the failed robbery spread, Bill Doolin, along with former associates of the gang, visited members of the Dalton family to console them. During one of the visits, Bill Doolin and Bill Dalton discussed their plans for revenge. Doolin immediately recruited former gang members George Newcomb and Charlie Pierce to form the nucleus of a new gang. They quickly added a 23 year old from Kentucky named Oliver Yantis. And it was likely some combination of the four who rode into Spearville, Kansas. Less than a month after the Coffeyville raid on November 1, 1892, three outlaws rode into the tiny town of Spearville near Dodge City and robbed the Ford County Bank. A posse of citizens chased the bandits out of town in a galloping gunfight, but the bandits escaped with about $1,700 in cash and $1,500 in treasury notes. Two of the three bandits were later identified as Bill Doolin and Oliver Yantis, and the heist was the first that would be credited to the new Doolin Dalton Gang. The gang would also be known as the Wild Bunch, a nickname it would share with the gang led by Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid a couple years in the future. And the name wasn't the only thing the two groups would share on the same day. At the end of November 1892, the Sundance Kid's career as a train robber began and Oliver Yantis career as a bank robber ended.
- [21:44]
Kaley Cuoco
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- [22:45]
Ryan Reynolds
The Spearville Robbery caught the attention of law enforcement, and bounties worth $5,000 were placed on the heads of some of the gang members. The U.S. marshals had narrowly missed their chance to arrest the leaders of the Dalton Gang before they met their end in Coffeyville, but the marshals were still on the hunt for anyone who was connected to the gang. Deputy Marshals Heck Thomas, Chris Madsen and Thomas Houston were in pursuit of the Spearville robbers. Heck Thomas had been relentlessly tracking the Dalton Gang, which Emmett Dalton later mentioned as one of the reasons why the gang took such a big risk with the Coffeyville raid. The men wanted a big score so they could escape the territory and the pursuit of Heck Thomas. Heck Thomas, Chris Madsen and Bill Tillman would be famously known as the Three Guardsmen, a nickname that was earned through their work against the Doolin Dalton Gang. And the first big achievement in that effort came when Thomas Madsen and Thomas Houston cornered Oliver Yantis at the end of November 1892. Foreign Bill Doolin and the third robber escaped the Spearville posse. Yantis split off from the other two and rode to a relative's ranch to hide. On November 29, the three marshals and their posse found Yantis at the ranch. The marshals wanted to avoid a fight, and Yantis appeared ready to surrender without one. He walked toward the lawmen as if he would go peacefully, but then he drew his pistol and opened fire. The marshals returned fire and hit Yantis in the arm and the gut. Oliver Yantis died of his wounds the following day. Several hours earlier and several hundred miles north of the place where Oliver Yantis unwisely started a shootout with Deputy U.S. marshals, Harry Longabaugh, nicknamed the Sundance Kid, led a group of robbers who held up a train in Montana. The effort reportedly netted the group a grand total of $25 and earned Sundance a wanted poster for train robbery for the first time on the Southern Plains. Seven months later, the Doolin Dalton gang notched its first train robbery. On June 11, 1893, members of the gang stopped a train half a mile west of the town of Cimarron, Kansas. The Meade County Globe reported the train's engineer stopped the train when he saw a danger signal up ahead. Two outlaws jumped on the train and grabbed the engineer. They marched him back to the express car, where they were joined by two more outlaws. The outlaws used a combination of a sledgehammer and dynamite to batter their way into the express car and to open the first of two two safes. They weren't able to open the second safe, and they escaped with an estimated $1,000 worth of silver. They rode south through Meade county, where the county sheriff, his deputy and a posse tried unsuccessfully to track them. Meade county sits right on the border between Kansas and Oklahoma, and the outlaws continue down into the territory. In Oklahoma, they passed through Beaver county, and a posse of Oklahoma lawmen quickly found the outlaw's trail. The lawmen tracked the robbers to the army post of Fort Supply, which achieved some notoriety as a key outpost for Lt. Col. George Armstrong Custer during the Battle of the Ouachita in 1868. 25 years later, the Beaver county posse caught up to the outlaws near Fort Supply and opened fire. The outlaws escaped, but not unscathed. Bill Doolin was shot in the foot, and that one small thing ended up playing a big role in the events that led to one of the most famous shootouts in the American West. Three months before Bill Doolin was shot while escaping a posse, he married a woman from Ingalls, Oklahoma, named Edith Ellsworth. Now, with his foot aching, he led the gang about 180 miles east to his wife's hometown, near the larger town of Stillwater. The U.S. marshals believe the gang used a cave near Ingalls as a hideout, and the gang made frequent trips to the village for entertainment and refreshment. There were at least two saloons in town, and the gang's favorite was owned by a man named Ransom. It was likely that the whole crew was in Ingalls at one time or another before the upcoming showdown. Bill Doolin, Bill Dalton, George Newcomb, George Weightman, Dan Clifton and Roy Doherty were definitely there. And if Charlie Pierce, Bill Blake, William Raidler, and Richard west weren't there for the action to come, they missed out on history. The ragged little village near the Osage reservation was so remote that it took the marshals a while to find the gang. When the information finally started to flow In August of 1893, U.S. marshal Evan Nix organized a mission which ended in one of the wildest shootouts in the old West. In May of 1893, two weeks before the train robbery near Cimarron, Kansas, 32 year old Evatt Nix received an appointment as the new U.S. marshal for Oklahoma Territory. He was a successful businessman from Guthrie, Oklahoma, and now he was the youngest U.S. marshal in the nation. His commission became official at the end of August, and he wasted no time mobilizing the effort to catch the Doolin Dalton gang. When Nix received word that the gang was spending lots of time in Ingalls, he ordered a posse to investigate. According to Nix, he gave command of the posse to Deputy Marshal John Hickson, who filled out its ranks with four more deputy marshals and groups of lawmen from the area. The sizable posse loaded into two or three covered wagons and headed for Ingalls. The men dressed as farmers or hunters, which would not have seemed out of place in Oklahoma in the late 1880s and early 1890s. Those were the years of the Oklahoma land rushes, and it was common to see covered wagons loaded with people rolling across the territory. But at the same time, when covered wagons loaded exclusively with men rolled into the tiny village of Ingalls, a known hideout for a famous outlaw gang, that was another story. U.S. marshal Nix believed the gang knew the lawmen were coming and the gang members were ready for a fight. Other accounts say the posse actually managed to make it to town without alerting the gang. But as soon as the wagons arrived, the element of surprise rapidly dissolved. The shootout that followed would become known as the Battle of Ingalls. It would vault the village into the ranks of towns like Tombstone, Arizona, Northfield, Minnesota and Coffeyville, Kansas. The story has been told a thousand times in a thousand different ways. No two versions are alike, so it's impossible to know exactly how it unfolded. But there are some common threads that weave throughout the versions, and they highlight the event that was probably the biggest gunfight in the American West. On September 1, 1893, wagons loaded with men of the posse rolled into Ingles. The plan seems to have been to offload the lawmen so they could cover Ransom Saloon, the popular hangout of the outlaws, and the ramshackle two story hotel up the street where the outlaws slept when they stayed in town. At that moment, several gang members were in the saloon enjoying whiskey and poker. Another had just left the saloon and gone to the hotel. And the final outlaw in town that day was the wild card. He was George Newcomb, better known by his nickname, Bitter Creek Newcomb, or just Bitter Creek. Some accounts place him at the saloon with the other outlaws. Other versions say he was riding down the street on his horse, which he had just collected from the blacksmith shop after it had a shoe repaired. Those versions say Deputy Marshal Richard speed stopped a 14 year old boy named Del Simmons and asked him the name of the rider. The boy reportedly exclaimed, why, that's Bitter Creek. Newcomb either overheard the exchange or he saw the boy pointing at him and he drew his rifle out of its scabbard on his saddle. As he did, Deputy Speed opened fire. The bullet hit Newcomb's rifle and ricocheted into his leg. The wound was serious, but he would live. Newcomb spurred his horse and galloped down the street. He either stopped at the saloon to rendezvous with the other outlaws, or he just kept riding out of town. Most likely, he kept riding. Either way, the gunshot started the ball. The outlaws in the saloon opened fire at the men who had arrived in the wagons. The fight started so quickly that the lawmen weren't in position for a siege. They scrambled for cover as they poured gunfire at the saloon, and the street immediately became a deadly trap of crossfire wood. Splintered, windows shattered, and residents scrambled to find places to hide. Then gunfire started from a new direction. Roy Daugherty was 20 years old and the youngest member of the gang. He was from Missouri, but he had said he was from Arkansas so often that everyone called him Arkansas Tom. He had left the saloon right before the lawmen arrived, and he was in a room on the second floor of the OK Hotel when the shooting started. He threw open a window, spotted men trying to kill his friend. George Newcomb and opened fire with his rifle. Lawmen now directed their fire at two locations, the saloon and the hotel. And for the outlaws, the situation at the saloon was becoming too hot to handle. Their horses were in the livery stable next to the saloon, but the two buildings were separated by a narrow street. The gang members would have to break cover to make it to their mounts, but it was a chance they had to take. The men burst out of a door near the back of the saloon and ran to the stable. Once inside, a couple outlaws kept up covering fire while the others saddled their horses. And by that time the sustained shootout was taking a deadly toll on the posse. Deputy Marshal Richard Speed had been shot and killed. US Marshal Nix claimed Bill Doolin killed the deputy while Doolin was providing covering fire from the stable. But most other accounts say it was the work of Roy Daugherty. From his position in the second floor of the hotel. Deputy Marshal Tom Houston, who had been part of the posse that killed gang member Oliver Yantis a year earlier, was shot and badly wounded, and most accounts agree he was shot by Dougherty. Finally, Deputy Marshal Lafayette Shadley was shot and grievously wounded. Most accounts credit Dougherty with that action too, which would have made him the most effective outlaw during the Battle of Ingalls. At the stable, the horses were saddled. The outlaws charged outside and galloped out of town. During the frantic exit, it seems likely that Bill Dalton's horse was wounded and Dalton himself may have sustained an injury. But he eventually climbed onto the horse of another outlaw and they made their escape. That left Roy Daugherty alone in the hotel. A commonly repeated story is the Deputy Marshal Jim Masterson, younger brother of Bat Masterson, threw a stick of dynamite which dislodged the young outlaw. U.S. marshal Nix wrote that Masterson certainly offered the use of dynamite which he had in his possession. And the lawmen were prepared to burn the hotel to force Doherty out. But in the end, the standoff seems to have resolved itself uneventfully. When Dougherty realized his so called friends had abandoned him, he surrendered. The Battle of Ingalls was a disaster for the lawmen. Deputy Marshals Houston and Shadley died of their wounds several hours after the shootout that brought the death toll on the posse side to three in town. Multiple civilians were killed, including the 14 year old boy, Del Simmons, and several were wounded. On the gang side. A few of the outlaws were wounded, but they all survived. One was captured, Roy Doherty, AKA Arkansas Tom. Meanwhile, the Doolin Dalton gang was still on the loose. The gang would resume its crime spree in the New Year of 1894. And at that point, the gloves came off for the U.S. marshals. They began an almost literal take no prisoners manhunt. One by one, the marshals eliminated the most feared outlaw gang in the waning days of the Old West. Next time on Legends of the Old West. The outlaws start to fall, the gang fractures, and the lawmen led by the US Marshals take them out one by one. Just six months after the battle of Ingalls, the gang loses one of its leaders and it's all downhill from there. That's next week on the season finale of Outlaws here on the Legends of the Old West. Members of our Black Barrel program don't have to wait week to week to receive new episodes. They receive the entire season to binge all at once with no commercials. And they also receive exclusive bonus episodes. Sign up now through the link in the Show Notes or On our website blackberrymedia.com memberships are just $5 per month. The series was researched and written by Michael Meglish. The producer was Joe Garra. Original music by Rob Valiere. I'm Chris Wimmer. Thanks for listening.
- [37:27]
Ann Foster
Have you ever heard about the 19th century French actress with so many lovers that they formed a lovers union? Or what about the aboriginal Australian bandit who faked going into labor just to escape the police, which she did escape from them. It was a great plan. How about the French queen who murdered her rival with poison gloves? I'm Ann Foster, host of the feminist women's history comedy podcast Vulgar History. Every week I share the saga of a woman from history whose story you probably didn't already know and you will never forget after you hear it. Sometimes we re examine well known people like Cleopatra or Pocahontas, sharing the truth behind their legends. Sometimes we look at the scandalous women you'll never find in a history textbook. Listen to Vulgar History wherever you get podcasts. And if you're curious, the people I was talking about before, the Australian woman is named Marianne Bug and the French actress was named Rochelle no less. Name just Rochelle. And the queen who poisoned her rival is Catherine de Medici. I have episodes about all of them.