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- [00:00]
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- [00:19]
Marielle Segarra
You're listening to Life Kit from npr. Hey, it's Marielle. I want you to look around your home. Do you have a nonstick frying pan, a raincoat, dental floss designed to slide easily between your teeth? All of these items have something in common. They often contain man made chemicals called pfas. That stands for per and polyfluoro alkyl substances.
- [00:44]
Mara Hoplamazian
They're in a lot of stuff that we as humans really like, like nonstick pans that are really great for frying eggs or raincoats that keep you really dry. But the same qualities that make them useful also make them really difficult to break down so they can stick around for a long time in our bodies and the environment.
- [01:02]
Marielle Segarra
New Hampshire Public Radio reporter Mara Hoplamazian has spent years reporting on pfas, which are also known as forever chemicals.
- [01:10]
Mara Hoplamazian
One reason for that nickname is that they're super strong, in part because one of the things that unites this whole group of chemicals is that they have a bond between a fluorine atom and a carbon atom, which is the strongest single bond in organic chemistry.
- [01:25]
Marielle Segarra
PFAS are everywhere. They build up in our bodies and even tiny amounts are linked to serious health problems like cancer, thyroid disease, high cholesterol, preeclampsia, ulcerative colitis, and more. And a major source of exposure for a lot of people is drinking water. Government estimates show that these chemicals are coming out of the taps in nearly half of homes in America. Mara is the host of a podcast called Safe to Drink. It follows the story of one town that finds out its water has been contaminated. And on this episode of Life Kit, we're going to talk about how to live in a world where these toxins are everywhere. We'll go over how to find out if PFAs are in your drinking water, what kinds of water filters can tackle them, and what other changes you can make to limit your exposure.
- [02:25]
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- [02:59]
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- [03:50]
Marielle Segarra
NPR all right, Mara, thanks for being here.
- [03:54]
Mara Hoplamazian
Thank you so much for having me.
- [03:56]
Marielle Segarra
Let's lay out the basics. Do we know what these chemicals are actually doing inside of our bodies, how they cause all this harm?
- [04:03]
Mara Hoplamazian
There's evidence that PFAS chemicals could be disrupting the signals our bodies send through hormones. They could change the way our genes express themselves. They could suppress our immune systems. They can interfere with cellular biology and cause uncontrolled growth, which is cancer. And the most well studied of these chemicals are PFOA and pfos. They're sometimes called legacy PFAS chemicals. They're sort of like the originals. PFOAS classified as a Group 1 carcinogen, meaning it is carcinogenic to humans. That's along with like other Group 1 carcinogens, which are, you know, tobacco, asbestos, arsenic, but also things like processed meat and alcohol. And PFOS is classified as possibly carcinogenic.
- [04:51]
Marielle Segarra
Where have scientists found pfas?
- [04:54]
Mara Hoplamazian
Estimates from the CDC show that pretty much all of us have PFAS in our blood. And they're pretty much everywhere in the world. Scientists have looked. You know, they're found in polar bears and seals in East Greenland. They were found in penguins in Antarctica. So it's really hard to get away from these things. And when it comes to tap water in the U.S. the U.S. geological Service tried to get a handle on this with a study that came out a few years ago. They tested for more than 30 different PFAS chemicals of the, you know, roughly 15,000 that exist. And they found at least 45% of the nation's tap water has one or more of 30 plus PFAS chemicals in
- [05:34]
Marielle Segarra
it Are PFAS legally allowed in drinking water?
- [05:38]
Mara Hoplamazian
As of two years ago, 2024, there are federal regulations for how much of a few PFAS chemicals allowed in drinking water. And that means public water systems all across the US Will need to start testing for PFAS chemicals and treating their water to remove them. But the deadline for water systems to do that work is unclear, and we don't know yet which forever chemicals water systems will be required to test for and remove. That's because the Trump administration is pushing for some changes to what the EPA had planned under Biden and essentially proposing to keep rules for just two of the legacy PFAS chemicals that aren't really being used anymore, PFOA and pfos, and rescind the rules for a handful of other PFAS chemicals the EPA did regulate in 2024. And in terms of the regulations themselves, the federal regulations for PFOA and PFOS are 4 parts per trillion. But the EPA has said if the levels were set solely based on health, they would be at zero parts per trillion. So essentially saying there's not a safe level of these chemicals to be drink.
- [06:44]
Marielle Segarra
So I wonder if you want to know, does the tap water in my area have PFAS in it? What would be your first step?
- [06:51]
Mara Hoplamazian
Many states have already done testing, so a good first step is to see what your current state regulations are and whether your state has public testing data online. And usually that can be found through your state's Department of Environmental Services or your health department. If you're on public water and you can't find that information through your state, you could call your water utilities customer service line to see if they have tested the water. And if they haven't, you know, keep checking because the deadline for water utilities to test under the current EPA regulations is 2027. That's coming up. And so testing results should be coming in. If you're on a private well, which you know like half of folks in my state are, many states have programs to help you figure out how to test your own water. I know in New Hampshire there's also some financial assistance for that. And there are a few maps online where you can sort of see testing that's already been done throughout the country. One of them is from the U.S. geological Survey. Another is from this advocacy organization called the Environmental Working Group. And you can just sort of put in your location and see what water around you has been tested.
- [07:59]
Marielle Segarra
Takeaway one, you want to know if your tap water contains pfas. A good Starting point is your state's PFAS regulations and its public water testing data. You can find that through your state health department or department of environmental services. You can also call your water utilities customer service line to see if they've tested the water. And there are maps online that pull together public water testing Data from the U.S. geological Survey and from the Environmental Working Group, an advocacy organization. If you're on a private well, many states have programs to help you test your water, and they might also offer financial assistance. And then once you, once you do look that up, how do you make sense of the reports that you find?
- [08:43]
Mara Hoplamazian
I think a good first step is to sort of compare your results to the federal regulations so that, you know, four parts per trillion for PFOA and PFOS and then any state regulations you might have. I looked into this in Concord, New Hampshire, where I live. My apartment is on public water. So I checked to see if my water utility had tested the water, and they did test in 2023, and they published those results online. One of the water sources that mixes into my water tested slightly above the federal level, but the other sources had levels lower than the federal limit and everything was below New Hampshire's state limits. So I felt like that was enough for me to feel my water was pretty safe.
- [09:24]
Marielle Segarra
But then again, like you said, the EPA has said that no level of PFAS is safe to be drinking.
- [09:33]
Mara Hoplamazian
Yeah. And in part, the reason for the difference between that 0 parts per trillion for the health guideline and the 4 parts per trillion for the enforceable guideline is because we can't really test down that low. I mean, these are tiny, tiny, tiny, tiny amounts of these chemicals. And you know, it's a chemical that's not good for us, even in tiny, tiny, tiny amounts. But the EPA basically says we can't ask people to test and treat water lower than 4 parts per trillion. It wouldn't be feasible with the technology we have and the cost it would require.
- [10:07]
Marielle Segarra
We'll have more Life Kit after the break.
- [10:21]
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- [10:53]
This message comes from Dell. Dell PCs with Intel inside are built for the moments that matter. Like a big project that can't be interrupted by an update with long lasting battery life, you can stay focused on what matters built for you. Dell.comdellpcs this message comes from American Home
- [11:14]
Shield it's not a matter of if an appliance or system like your H Vac will break, but when. Without a home warranty, these repairs or replacements can cost thousands of. But with an AHS home warranty, they will fix covered breakdowns, helping protect your wallet. Get 20% off all plans@ahs.com NPR and see promo details. See ahs.com contracts for coverage details, including service fees, limitations and exclusions.
- [11:44]
This message comes from Leesa from night one Feel the difference with a Leesa mattress with premium materials that deliver serious comfort and full body support no matter how you sleep. Their mattresses are meticulously designed and assembled in the USA and they back it all up with free shipping, easy returns and a 120 night sleep trial. Visit Leesa.com for 30% off today. Plus get an extra $50 off with promo code NPR. That's Leesa.com promo code NPR when it
- [12:17]
Marielle Segarra
comes to drinking water, how can we limit our exposure or filter some of this out?
- [12:24]
Mara Hoplamazian
If you do find test results that show there's PFAS in your water, or even if you feel like you just want to do it anyways, you can figure out if your water system has started treating for it. So there's certain kinds of filters that are effective for removing pfas, and your water system might already be using those. They might be in the process of installing them, so check to see if they are doing that. If you find out your water has PFAS in it and your water system isn't treating it, you might want to get a treatment system in your own home. It's important to do some research about that. Not all water filters are the same and some aren't as effective for pfas. There's three kinds of water filters that are generally effective. One is granular activated carbon, 1 is ion exchange resin, and then there's reverse osmosis. Those three things are generally sort of effective for treating pfas, and you'll also want to look for a filter that is certified. You can check out the National Sanitation foundation website to see if a particular filter you're interested in treats the kind of PFAS that you're trying to target. And generally you'll want to look for the letters NSF, ANSI 53 or NSFansi 58.
- [13:35]
Marielle Segarra
What about if you're drinking bottled water, I mean, some people will do that instead to try to avoid any contaminants that might be in the tap for bottled water.
- [13:42]
Mara Hoplamazian
I think it really depends on what your levels are that you're trying to avoid. So if you have really high levels in your tap water or in your private well, bottled water might have lower levels than that and could be a better option. In a 2025 statement from the U.S. food and Drug Administration, they shared results from testing of bottled water that they collected from stores across the US between 2023 and 2024. Ten of the 197 samples that they took had detectable levels of PFAS. But the FDA said none of those levels would have exceeded the federal levels, the maximum contaminant levels. So that's some data about what PFAS look like in bottled water. But figuring out if your bottled water company that you're using is testing their water for PFAS is probably a good step to take if you want to use that as an alternative
- [14:39]
Marielle Segarra
takeaway. 2. To limit your exposure to PFAS in drinking water, get a water filtration system. There are three kinds that are generally effective in filtering out pfas. Granular Activated Carbon Ion Exchange Resin and reverse osmosis. Look for a filter that's certified by the National Sanitation foundation and confirm that the certificate is genuine by searching for the company's name on the NSF website. Also, PFAS can be present in bottled water. So if you drink it, find out if the company is testing its water for these chemicals. Beyond drinking water, what are some other ways you can reduce your exposure to pfas?
- [15:22]
Mara Hoplamazian
One thing that I've done is sort of take an inventory of the stuff in my life. So the stuff I'm cooking with and wearing and putting on my body, like makeup, and also the food packaging that food comes in. So in 2024, the FDA announced these grease proofing substances that contained PFAS. Chemicals that have been used in things like microwave popcorn bags and fast food wrappers were no longer being sold. But they said those products might still be in use until the stock runs out. So that's something I pay attention to. Something like a beauty product or floss. Sometimes they say PFAS free on the label, but you really want to see if it's been third party tested. So you can look for certifications like green seal or EPA's safer choice program for clothing. You can look for the Oeko Tex 100 certification and you sort of really Want to make sure that those companies that are branding something as PFAS free have actually tested to make sure it is PFAS free. But when I did this sort of, like, inventory of all of my stuff, I decided to get rid of my nonstick pan. I really started, like, building a relationship with my old cast iron. I floss every day. So I made a point to get PFAS free floss. But, you know, I have this older raincoat that works really well. I only wear it once or twice a year. It's not PFAS free, but I haven't gotten rid of it because I felt like the risk trade off felt worthwhile to me in that situation. One scientist I spoke with, Megan Romano at Dartmouth, was sort of talking about how she wears waterproof mascara, like, twice a year. But for people who wear it every day, you know, that could be a place to think about making a change to reduce your exposure.
- [16:58]
Marielle Segarra
What I usually recommend to people is that you think about the products that have the longest, most prolonged contact with your skin. And if you want to start to make changes, that's the best place to start. So to look for moisturizers or foundations or bronzers, things that you're going to put on your face or your body and leave there all day, your deodorant, those are the places to think about. Could I be choosing something that had, you know, fewer endocrine disrupting chemicals, for example, in it? Is there any way to get PFAS out of your body if you've already been consuming them, as most of us have?
- [17:37]
Mara Hoplamazian
Your PFAS levels in your blood will decrease over time if you stop ingesting them. And U.S. health officials have said the best approach for reducing your blood levels is to prevent exposure in all the ways we've been talking about. There is ongoing research about methods for reducing blood levels for people who have really high exposure. But in the US The Centers for Disease Control have said there's no currently approved medical treatment for reducing PFAS in the body. There is some guidance for doctors on how they might treat patients with higher levels of PFAS exposure. Like, they might prioritize certain kinds of screenings for particular cancers. They might test thyroid function. So if a person thinks they could have a high exposure to pfas, they could discuss it with their doctor. And in some places, like New Hampshire, insurance companies are actually required to cover the cost of blood testing for PFAS chemicals. So that's something you could explore if you're interested in figuring out how much of this Stuff is actually in your body.
- [18:40]
Marielle Segarra
Takeaway 3. You can limit your exposure to PFAS in other ways, too. Consider personal care products and cleaning products in particular. Some will be labeled PFAS free and back that up with certification. Certifications like green seal or EPA's safer choice program. And for clothing, you can look for the Oeko Tex 100 certification. Big picture. I think a lot of folks wonder, how worried should I be about this? Given that these are everywhere, it can feel like a losing battle. I think about this a lot as someone who got cancer when I was 34. Just a few years ago, the doctors didn't find an obvious cause, like, oh, you have a genetic mutation. So they said, hey, it's likely some kind of environmental exposure that we just can't pin down. So now I feel like I have to do everything to protect myself from every possible carcinogen in the environment, which just isn't possible and can drive you a little. A little up the wall.
- [19:39]
Mara Hoplamazian
Yeah, that sounds so frustrating as an answer to get from doctors about, you know, we don't fully understand why this is happening. I'm so sorry that happened to you.
- [19:48]
Marielle Segarra
Thanks. But I think about it, and I did get a water filter for my house for under my sink, and I also got water filters for my bathroom. I don't know for sure that they're making a huge difference or that they would prevent me from getting cancer in the future, but I just feel like I'm doing the best I can.
- [20:09]
Mara Hoplamazian
Yeah. And I feel like having information about what we're potentially exposed to in the environment, like pfas, chemicals, and other things, allows us to sort of, like, make those calculations for ourselves. And with risk, it's like I was saying with my raincoat, we each have our own tolerance for risk. And I always drive the speed limit. My sister loves to be zooming past people in the left lane. And I try to think about my exposure to PFAs like that. What risk feels tolerable, what feels intolerable? And at the end of the day, how much of my own money can I spend protecting myself from something that's so widespread? But like as I said, you know, in order to make those calculations, we have to have good, reliable information. And that's where those federal and state regulations come in. Those enforceable limits and the testing efforts that come with them are really important as we try to make these decisions.
- [21:03]
Marielle Segarra
Yep. Well, Mara, thank you so much for this.
- [21:07]
Mara Hoplamazian
Thank you so much. Yeah.
- [21:11]
Marielle Segarra
Okay, recap time. Takeaway 1. You want to know if your tap water has PFAS in it. A good starting point is your state's PFAS regulations and its public water testing data. You can also call your water utilities customer service line to see if they've tested the water, and there are maps online that you can look at if you're on a private well. Many states have programs to help you test your water and they might offer financial assistance. Takeaway 2. To limit your exposure to PFAS and drinking water, get a water filtration system. There are three kinds that are generally effective in filtering out PFAS granular Activated Carbon Ion Exchange Resin and reverse osmosis. Look for a filter that's certified by the National Sanitation Foundation. NSF and PFAS can be present in bottled water too, so if you drink it, find out if the company is testing its water for these chemicals. Takeaway 3. You can limit your exposure to PFAS in other ways too. Consider personal care products and cleaning products and clothing looking for certifications like green seal, EPA's safer choice program, or Ocotex 100. All right, that's our show. You are supporting Life Kit just by listening to this episode, but if you feel like showing your support even more, you could sign up for Life Kit Plus. Find out more at plus.NPR.org LifeKit this episode of Life Kit was produced by Margaret Serino. Our digital editor is Malika Greaves and our Visuals editor is CJ Ricolon. Meghan Cain is our Senior Supervising Editor and Beth Donovan is our Executive Producer. Our production team also includes Andy Taegle, Claire Marie Schneider and Sylvie Douglas. Engineering support comes from Nisha Hyness. Fact Checking by Tyler Jones. I'm Marielle Segarra. Thanks for listening.
- [23:07]
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