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- [00:00]
A
This message comes from Angie. Tackling a home project. Angie can connect you with pros who do such a good job, you might ask them to be your kid's godfather. Don't do that. Just trust them to get the job done. Find a pro for your projects@angie.com that's a n g I dot com.
- [00:19]
B
I tried skipping the other day. I was at the, I was at a rest stop and I did some squats and I did some jumping jacks and I did some lunges to the door because I just wanted to move. I didn't know if I would remember how to skip. Have y' all skipped recently?
- [00:38]
C
I do.
- [00:39]
D
I have skipped within the past year.
- [00:40]
E
Yeah, me too.
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C
Because I wanted, I still knew how to do it.
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D
Yeah, we skip on here.
- [00:45]
B
Makes me really happy. How did you, why, why are, why have y' all been skipping? Like, what prompted me when I was skipping age.
- [00:52]
C
And so I'll see her do something and I'll be like, do I remember how that works?
- [00:56]
E
And I do skip because I am a big kid. It's why I study play. My partner and I, I have a little rubber ball in my backpack I take whenever I travel. And we were in the Poughkeepsie train station throwing it around like, and people were like, what are you guys doing?
- [01:14]
B
You know, I love that for you.
- [01:17]
D
I'm a play advocate across the board. So if it's asking folks like, when's the last time you skipped? Like, why aren't we skipping more? And then usually we'll end up skipping. So I've definitely done it recently too.
- [01:30]
B
This is NPR's Life Kit. I'm Marielle Segarra. When's the last time you skipped or even skipped out on your day to day routine to do something just for the fun of it? In other words, when's the last time you took a side quest? The term side quest comes from video games. It's a mission that deviates from the main storyline. You don't absolutely need a side quest to finish the game, but they add flavor, they add depth, they build the world. It's things like go to this other realm and collect a bunch of yellow flowers. Flowers. Or have your player compete in a knife throwing game with a bunch of soldiers and wake up with a tattoo on his neck. This has been a trend on social media to share a side quest. Like I'm learning to crochet a hundred different types of granny squares. Or I will be walking the length of Manhattan this month. Or I'm going to be arranging flowers for myself every week. One of the people you heard earlier was Brittany luce, host of NPR's It's Been a Minute and intermediate Spanish speaker. Brittany's current side quest is learning Spanish.
- [02:34]
C
I'm almost intermediate. I'm so close to B1. Like we're literally, we're just starting B1 right now.
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B
We teamed up because we wanted to know what makes for a good side quest. So we got a couple of experts on the horn. Sahara Monet, curator of let's Play nyc, a community group that prioritizes Play my side quest.
- [02:54]
D
Just going to the park more, being outside, I definitely say two minimum times a week I have to be at the park.
- [03:01]
B
And Kyra Gaunt, associate professor of ethnomusicology at the University at Albany, one of her many side quests is writing poetry.
- [03:08]
E
Writing a poem without editing it and then recording it immediately. It's teaching me that it doesn't have to be overwrought, reworked 20 times, rewritten. You know, like we don't replay what we said to someone. No, I want to do that over.
- [03:29]
B
Take two on this episode of Life Kit, I sit down with Brittany, Sahara and Kira to talk about all things side quests, how to find the right one for you, and how a good side quest can help bring you back to life.
- [03:48]
A
This message comes from Capital One Commercial Bank. Your business requires commercial banking solutions that prioritize your long term success with Capital One. Get a full suite of financial products and services tailored to meet your needs today and goals for tomorrow. Learn more at Capital One. Commercial. Member FDIC this message comes from NPR sponsor Carvana. Carvana makes car buying easy 100% online prices down to the penny, delivered to your door. Why make car buying hard when it could be easy? Visit Carvana.com today. Terms may apply. This message comes from Progressive Insurance. Insurance isn't one size fits all. That's why drivers have enjoyed Progressive's name your price tool for years. Now. With the name your price tool, you tell them what you want to pay and they'll show you options that fit your budget. So whether you're picking out your first policy or just looking for something that works better for you and your family, they make it easy. To see your options. Visit progressive.com, progressive Casualty Insurance Company and affiliates. Price and coverage match limited by state law.
- [04:54]
B
This message comes from Charles Schwab with their original podcast Choiceology. Choiceology is a show about the psychology and economics behind people's decisions. Download the latest episode and subscribe@schwab.com podcast
- [05:09]
C
okay so we live in such a goal oriented society, gym goals, health goals, career goals, that it's really interesting that side quests are taking off right now. Kira, why are side quests trending? What do they do for us as adults?
- [05:25]
E
I think of side quests like play as practice for adults. They're about not knowing. And you're going to ask me what is not knowing?
- [05:37]
C
Yeah, I was going to say not knowing what? Because I don't know either. What, what do we don't. What don't we know?
- [05:41]
E
Adults spend so much time in environments where they're trying to control the outcome that play as a practice becomes about not knowing, not having an attachment to what the outcome is. Side quests release us from worrying about the outcome. Learning begins with inquiry. In fact, the word quest comes from the root question or inquiry. So it's not about answers, it's about the journey.
- [06:14]
C
It's very different than sort of like the goal oriented framework that we're discussing that a lot of us live within.
- [06:20]
E
Yeah. It's not if you know, you know, it's. I don't know it, it leaves me.
- [06:26]
B
And that's okay.
- [06:27]
E
Yeah, and that's okay. In fact, that's what we're striving for. If you asked me, I'd say it's about exploring your curiosity, like really as a skill. Exploring what curiosity is not just and I don't know, but I don't know what's over there.
- [06:46]
C
I hear you laughing, Sahara. Like how does that line up with your attendees experiences when you have your let's Play NYC events?
- [06:54]
D
Yeah, it's interesting because I guess my interpretation of it is trying on different realities and then the trending aspect of it is social media. Almost makes it so much easier to discover those new practices of play or a hobby that maybe you didn't even thought of or knew that you could try. So for a lot of the folks that come out to the play dates that we host, some people are more interested in trapeze or ninja parks and others are interested in salsa dancing. So kind of picking your own adventure is a part of the side questing experience too.
- [07:31]
B
I really want to go to the Ninja park one.
- [07:33]
D
It's a good one.
- [07:35]
B
Full disclosure, I've been to a couple of the events through let's Play nyc. I went to the salsa one and I went. I went to one at a crafting spot. Yeah. Called Recess Grove. Sort of a community art space is how I would describe it. All right, takeaway one. Side quests are a way of practicing Play, they're a way of not knowing and being okay with that, embracing a beginner's mindset and sometimes seeing yourself slowly, steadily getting better at a thing you never thought you would do. Sarah we had an episode on Life Kit about play, and I actually interviewed Stuart Brown, who was the guy who came up with those eight play personalities. He walked me through them. I thought it was fascinating. You've talked about this too. Like, you think about play personalities.
- [08:29]
D
Yeah, I think the whole, like, choose your own adventure aspect of it. I know for me, at least, in my own practice of play, it is all rooted in my upbringing. Like, I studied musical theater when I was in high school, and then I also was a competitive athlete. So in different chapters of my life, play has come up in different ways. And in the personalities I know, some of them are more movement modalities, or some are more spontaneous, and some of them honestly are more competitive. Like, you like games, you like sports. So it's interesting how play as a practice shows up differently in different seasons. And then for adults, I'm sure, who are experimenting with side quests, sometimes they may want something a bit more rigid or routine based. And in other capacities, they're like, hey, I just want to. To your point earlier, Brittany, go on a walk in a different neighborhood that I haven't been yet.
- [09:19]
C
Yeah, I took the quiz because I heard, you know, I knew we were going to have this conversation and I was like, oh, my gosh, what play personality do I have? I found out that I was a split between an explorer. Oh, Lord. And I can't remember the other one.
- [09:32]
D
They're fancy names.
- [09:33]
C
They're very fancy.
- [09:34]
B
There's like the kinesthete, which is the. The sort of athletic, movement oriented one, the competitor. Are you a storyteller?
- [09:42]
C
I think Storyteller was the second one. I had equal storyteller and explorer. And then artist was after that one. And like anything having to do with being in charge of other people or organizing things was at the very bottom, interesting.
- [09:56]
B
On the practical side, that's something you can do if you're trying to figure out what kind of side quests might appeal to you is you can think about the play personalities. And one piece of advice we gave in the Play episode for Life Kit was to think back to how you played as a kid. If you're stuck and you're not sure what play personality really appeals to you, think like, what did I love doing as a kid? I loved playing with Barbies and creating like dressing them up in different fashions. And making them fight and making them kiss and, you know, just like telling stories with them. So storyteller for sure, you know, and plenty of other ones. The director probably for me as well. But I think it's this whole tapping into your inner child thing.
- [10:41]
E
You know, I think a lot of people often think of what you loved when you were a kid, because we were naturally curious. And I like to encourage people to do things that you don't know to do. So this is mine. I can't draw. That's what I thought. And two summers ago, I went to a drawing class because here in smallbany, New York, I call it sometimes there's not a lot to do. And I went to a drawing class, and the instructor there was a figure, a human person standing there was supposed to draw. And I'm like, I can't draw. And he said, look at the figure. Look at the woman standing there, and let your hand follow your vision. And one of the best things about not knowing is that you don't know what the impact of what you're doing may be on your life and on your character. So the next day, my writing was easier. My writing was better. So I think side quests, just like in the gaming world, really makes the main quest stronger. It gives it more nuance, it gives it some new dimension, or it actually brings out a facet of you that you convinced yourself you couldn't do. It might turn into a hobby, and it might not. That's the whole point of the side quest is it's about the moment.
- [12:02]
B
I love that takeaway 2. When brainstorming side quests, think about how you liked to play as a kid. You could look to the eight play personalities, a framework developed by psychiatrist Stuart Brown based on decades of talking to his patients about their early experiences with play. A few examples. There's the joker who loves to laugh and make other people laugh. There's the artist, creator. The point for them is to make something. Look at this list, see what resonates. Also, tap into that sense of curiosity that you had as a kid but may have tamped down since then. What sounds exciting or makes you want to learn more?
- [12:42]
C
I wonder, like, how do you know when it's time to take a side quest? Like, what does it feel like in your body when it's time to go on that ride?
- [12:50]
D
I know for a lot of folks, it can come out of conflict. It can come out of a really hard breakup or some stress and maybe some positive transitions in your life. But that catalyst can also be like the birthplace for really exciting character development and side questing. Now a lot of folks are running marathons and trying pottery classes and different things like that. So the timing of it can be from a life experience. Or again, maybe social media. You see someone doing an activity that you didn't think about yourself.
- [13:22]
E
Yeah, I think if you feel like work has become your life, it's a perfect time for a side quest. If you are venting a lot about your boss or your family, you need to, you need to get, get on, need to move from your biological family to your logical go meet new people. Like, side quests in my mind are not new, but we always need a new frame for it. These are like excursions. If you were on a cruise, you'd go on an excursion on the island and you'd do you've never done before. If you think you know everything, you need a side quest. You need to do something you've not done before because it will open up the brain's different neural networks and you'll get this sense of wonder and awe.
- [14:15]
B
For me, in my body, when I really need a side quest, it feels like tension, tightness, stiffness, that kind of feeling. Like when I know that I've been sitting down for too long and I just need to get up, my legs feel restless. That's when I need the excursion takeaway three some anecdotal signs that it might be time for a side quest. If you feel like work has become your life, if you're venting a lot about your boss or your family, if you think you know everything, if you're feeling stuck, tense, restless, and you may feel those as sensations in your body,
- [14:52]
D
I feel like a lot of us get urges or like that nudge, but we just ignore it, like, time and time again. And so, like, for me, like, I haven't done theater since high school. I want to take an acting class so bad. And I've been saying that since I graduated college. And this year is the year that I'm saying I'm going to do it. And it's July, so that's a nudge. I feel it's very loud. I'm starting to verbalize it to make it more of a reality. But I think a lot of us experience those nudges and we ignore them. So the more we can kind of close that gap of like, that nudge, and then I'm going to actually be brave and courageous and like, do the thing and try, try the side quest, I think we'd all be having more Fun.
- [15:31]
B
Honestly, I'm curious about what gets in our way. You know, like when we have something that comes to mind and keeps coming up. I want to do this. For me, it's been trying to learn how to swim better, but pools, they gross me out and I get water up my nose and it's just I don't like being around other people's naked feet. Like, just there. There are things that I can't get on board with, but I do like being in the ocean in Puerto Rico, and I'm trying not to get wiped out by a wave. But every summer it comes and goes and I'm like, this year I'm gonna do this.
- [16:04]
E
I have an offer to consider. That you say yes, please. That you say, this year that's too big. I think you should turn your smart goal into a micro goal. This week I'm going to go to the pool. I'm not gonna go in. I'm just gonna go to the pool. I'm gonna go see other people learning how to swim. I'm gonna go to the YWCA and see what's going. Or wherever there's a pool. And so sometimes a side quest is about, like, you don't begin because you'll know what you'll find. You begin because you're willing to find out.
- [16:44]
C
Like, you don't have to build Rome this year.
- [16:47]
E
Yeah, exactly.
- [16:48]
C
It can happen over time.
- [16:49]
E
Yeah.
- [16:51]
B
Kira's suggestion to me to make my side quest tiny is part of an acronym she came up with.
- [16:57]
E
Artisan A R T S N. It's
- [17:00]
B
a spin on the acronym smart, as in make a smart goal. Kira wanted to focus more on the art part. So a achievable.
- [17:09]
E
It's gotta be small enough to begin.
- [17:11]
B
R is for revealing.
- [17:14]
E
Maybe the revelation is delayed. Maybe it's two weeks later. You're like, oh, my God, this really happened. Help me at work, right?
- [17:23]
B
T is for tiny or time bound.
- [17:26]
E
One small adventure, like drawing a self portrait of yourself with one pencil with your eyes closed.
- [17:34]
B
S is for specific and N is for notice.
- [17:38]
E
Notice how you feel after you participate and not focus on it as a performance. Like, what surprised me, what delighted me? Did I stop surveilling myself? Like, I'm a parent or a teacher and that. That's an artisan. After the break, people say to me, why would you jump out of a perfectly good plane? And I'm like, a lot of people are living in perfectly bad planes and won't jump out.
- [18:03]
B
That's coming up on Life Kit.
- [18:09]
A
This message comes from Capital One Commercial Bank. Your business requires commercial banking solutions that prioritize your long term success with Capital One. Get a full SW suite of financial products and services tailored to meet your needs today and goals for tomorrow. Learn more at Capital One Commercial. Member FDIC Support for this NPR podcast and the following message come from Carvana Selling your car Carvana has offers so good they're almost inexplicable. Sell your car 100% online in minutes. Visit Carvana.com today
- [18:47]
B
I'd love to talk about the relationship between our jobs and our side quests. I feel like I can speak for myself here. That work used to occupy a different space in my life. Before the pandemic, my identity was more tied to my job and my career. So was my ambition and so was my social life. And then in the pandemic, there's no workplace anymore and all the people I would see every day, well, that's no longer really happening. It's only happening over zoom. And work had less of a hold on me. Suddenly I was no longer like, my entire identity is baked up in this. And I feel like that opened me to more side quests. I think I'm not the only one who's experienced that shift, who's like, I don't want to give it all to my company anymore.
- [19:43]
E
I mean, when do you sit and tell a joke at work? I'm in academia. We only take our head to different meetings. There's no play involved generally, and there's a list of things and it's all about serious and earnestness and you go home and then you vent about it and you're like, then you get up and do it again. So side quest are really important given that we're living in a time where a lot of stress comes from social media. People aren't trained to have good social skills. Social hygiene at work, I feel like that's why I listen to npr, because it makes me laugh. But at work it's not like my experience of listening to my favorite shows on radio. It's a burden.
- [20:34]
B
What I'm hearing is that side quests are a way to remind yourself you're not a machine.
- [20:40]
E
Absolutely.
- [20:42]
D
Yes to that. We host walks on a monthly basis through the summer. And so the last one we had, we asked that question of like, what do you miss from your childhood? And so some of the answers were so fun of like playing all day and having to like change your clothes midday because you just had like sweat through your clothes. Or I had noted, like, when it gets really Hot. The fire hoses are open. And when's the last time you ran through one of those? Like, realistically? And so it was just funny because after we reflected on, like, what people's answers were, we were walking back to our home base and our coffee shop that we end up at, and there was a fire hose open and a rainbow, and we. A few of us skipped through it, and it was just like we had manifested it, but it was just so fun. It couldn't have been more perfect. That whimsy of it all, like, it's good.
- [21:36]
C
Well, I mean, you're talking kind of, like, about rediscovery, right? And I think that feels very much like part of a side quest. Actually, my career in podcasting started as a side quest. I just started a podcast outside of work with a friend. 12 years.
- [21:49]
D
Congrats.
- [21:50]
C
And yeah, thank you. But then once that became, like, more than a hobby, I had to pick a new side quest, which it took some years of trying some things, but for me, now that's learning a second language. It's learning Spanish. I want to be able to communicate more with some of my family. And also, too, I mean, like, oh, my gosh, like, a lot of my personality naturally is like, I know the answer. And so, like, when I'm learning a new language, I don't. As you said, I can't be a no at all.
- [22:20]
D
You don't know.
- [22:21]
C
I don't know what I'm saying. You know, I was not really a great student from, like, basically sixth grade through through college. I got terrible grades for a lot of my education, but now I'm, like, a pretty great student with my tutor that I have been with for a few years now, and I am finally enjoying a having class and that reframe. There's a lot from childhood, from school, from those formative years that maybe doesn't feel so good to continue to hold on to. And a side quest for me has been a way to, like, kind of get out of that and be like, oh, actually, no, there is this. This side of me that, like, is a great student and, like, loves learning and is, like, asking for more homework. That's not something that I knew about myself. It's like a literally a new sel that I have discovered through this.
- [23:06]
D
You mentioned something, though, about, like, I guess almost like, reclaiming it for yourself. I've had to reclaim my own side quest journey and hobby experience by doing some of those alone or doing some of those out of a larger group just to also preserve that practice and have that solitude to have some self discovery as well. It's a little different if you're maybe with a friend doing it or doing it in a really large group too.
- [23:34]
B
Takeaway 4. This is a good reminder you don't need someone to join you on a side quest. Side questing solo can be a beautiful experience and bring you back to yourself. Also, if you're interested in a side quest that does require a group. Like if you want to play soccer or volleyball, some sort of team sport, you don't have to limit yourself to the people you already know. There are spaces where other people go to do just that thing and they're obsessed with it.
- [24:02]
C
We're talking about all of these wonderful, beautiful things that exist on the other side of taking that leap or even just dipping that first toe into beginning a side quest. But also I imagine there are probably a lot of people listening who are like, oh my gosh, I'm so tired or I'm so busy or I have so many people I'm taking care of or so many things that people need from me. Do you have any advice for those who might not know where to start or who might feel too tired to try to take a side quest?
- [24:32]
D
I mean the side quest in general, it sounds daunting. It does. Like a quest of sorts feels like a commitment to something. So I think we've been kind of talking about keeping it simple, like looking around your environment, looking around your commute and taking moments to pause. And I think to Kira's point, to notice is the best way to start. But I think listening to what those urges have been like, what those nudges have been, is a really good place to start.
- [25:07]
E
Yeah, it doesn't have to be an activity or an event. A side quest can be a mindfulness practice of. I had a student once, I taught a political sociology class and I said, you have to change one habit, one habit. And she had a four year old daughter and she worked overnight. And I consider this a side quest. Other people might not, but I think it has the same impact that a side quest is. She said, I just want to be present in the morning when my daughter wakes me up at 8am and she said it changed her life that semester.
- [25:44]
C
That's it.
- [25:45]
D
I think whether you start small or you do something really grand like jumping out of a plane or something, it's like, what's the best that can happen? That's a bad example because I also do not recommend the jumping out of a plane piece. But yeah, what's next I did it.
- [26:01]
E
I think we should not underestimate the story that comes from whatever happened. People say to me, why would you jump out of a perfectly good plane? And I'm like, a lot of people are living in perfectly bad planes and won't jump out. It's doing things you're not familiar with that gives you a bigger brain. It gives you more empathy for who you are. You're not an object. You are a changing being from the cradle to the grave. So it's really important to do things that you're not familiar with about yourself. And I think side quests give people that permission.
- [26:36]
B
It's reminding me about the definition of a side quest and where that came from. It came from the video game world. Part of the reason to go on a side quest in the video game world is just to build the lore. And.
- [26:50]
D
Yes.
- [26:51]
B
And it's like, so it's this idea of building your own lore.
- [26:54]
D
Your lore, you know, which, like, why wouldn't anyone want to do, you know, like, more lore, like, enrich your story?
- [27:04]
B
All right, well, thank you all so much. This is really fun.
- [27:07]
C
Thank you. Thank you.
- [27:09]
D
Thank you.
- [27:11]
E
Yes. Thank you.
- [27:14]
B
Okay, time for a recap. Takeaway 1. Side quests are a way of practicing play. They're a way of not knowing and being okay with that. And sometimes they're a way of seeing yourself getting better at a thing you never thought you would do. Takeaway 2. When brainstorming side quests, think about how you liked to play as a kid. You could look at the eight play personalities and see what resonates. Takeaway three, Some signs that it might be time for a side quest. If you feel like work has become your life, if you're venting a lot about your boss or your family, if you think you know everything, or if you're feeling stuck, tense, restless. Takeaway four, Try a solo side quest. And if your side quest requires a group, don't limit yourself to your current circle of friends, especially if they are not as interested in softball as you are. All right, that's our show. Before we go, would you rate and review Life Kit in your podcast app? Tell us a favorite tip you've learned or what kind of episodes you like the most. We love hearing from you. This episode of Life Kit was produced by Corey Antonio Rose and Claire Marie Schneider. Our digital editor is Malika Garib, and our visuals editor is CJ Ricolon. Megan Cain is our senior supervising editor, and Lauren Gonzalez is our executive producer. Our production team also includes Andy Tagle, Margaret Serino and Sylvie Douglas. Engineering support comes from Sina Lofredo. Special thanks to Cher Vincent. I'm Marielle Segarra. This message comes from Charles Schwab with their original podcast Choiceology hosted by Katie Milkman, an award winning behavioral scientist and author of the best selling book how to Change. Choiceology is a show about the psychology and economics behind people's decisions. Hear true stories from Nobel laureates, historians, authors, athletes and more about why people do the things they do. Download the latest episode and subscribe@schwab.com podcast or wherever you listen. Support for NPR and the following message come from Disney what does it take to build a world people never want to leave? Hear from James Cameron, Jon Favreau, Kevin Feige and more in director Leslie Iwerks. Disney World Builders coming to Disney this August. This message comes from Mint Mobile. If you're tired of spending hundreds on big wireless bills, bogus fees and free perks, Mint Mobile is for you. Shop plans@mintmobile.com Switch taxes and fees extra. See Mint Mobile for details.