Give your to-do list a makeover

Summary

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Life Kit – “Give your to-do list a makeover”

Host: Marielle Segarra
Guests: Angel Trinidad (CEO & Founder, Passion Planner), Oliver Berkman (Journalist & Author)
Date: April 9, 2026

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Episode Overview

In this episode of NPR’s Life Kit, host Marielle Segarra explores how to transform your to-do list into a truly effective tool that furthers what matters most to you. With insights from Angel Trinidad (founder of Passion Planner) and author Oliver Berkman (“4000 Weeks: Time Management for Mortals”), the episode walks listeners through figuring out meaningful goals, choosing the right system, making tasks actionable, and letting go of perfectionism. The goal is not simply to do more, but to do what matters—with intention and self-compassion.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Rethinking the To-Do List: Align with What Matters Most

• Starting Point: Marielle shares her chaotic to-do list with big, small, urgent, and questionable tasks (“Retile Kitchen floor,” “Buy razors,” “Microblading?”) [00:25]
• The Problem: Lists get cluttered; some tasks don’t even belong and overwhelm becomes the norm.
• Aim: Learn how to structure your to-do list to serve your deeper goals instead of blind productivity.

Insight:

“When you make a to do list that's aligned intentionally with what you want out of your life, it's really powerful.”
— Angel Trinidad [01:33]

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2. Takeaway #1: Define What Matters Right Now

• Identify a Game Changer: Angel suggests starting by pinpointing one big-picture, impactful goal – your “game changer” [03:46]

• How to Find It: Ask yourself:

  • What do I want to be?
  • What do I want to experience?
  • What do I want to have? [04:33]

• Life-Driven Goals: Sometimes, urgent needs or circumstances dictate your priorities (sick parent, need for a new job). That’s okay. [04:55]

• Alternative Approach: If you don’t have a clear goal, reflect on your current to-do list to uncover deeper motivations by asking “why?” up to five times, or evaluating if a task “enlarges or diminishes” you.

“Lots of life is not so happy, but can be really meaningful. And plenty of pleasures are kind of shallow and pointless and you don't want to fill up your life with them.”
— Oliver Berkman [06:23]

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3. Takeaway #2: Pick a System That Actually Works for You

• Paper vs. Digital:

  • Paper: Tactile satisfaction of crossing off items; paper lists have a visual end point. [07:10]

    “When you cross it off. There's nothing like it.”
    — Angel Trinidad [07:10]

  • Digital: Easy to organize/search, but risks endless expansion and overwhelm. The Life Kit team recommends Todoist, Notion, Asana, Trello. [07:27]

• Structure to Your Day:

  • Timeboxing: Schedule blocks of time for specific tasks (good for visualizing capacity). [07:56]

    “That kind of awareness gets you thinking, am I spending my time in a way that makes sense for me and what my intention is for my life?”
    — Angel Trinidad [08:26]

  • Simple Lists: For some, rigid schedules feel “imprisoning.” Flexibility is key; your system can evolve as your needs change. [08:40–09:16]

    “An important thing here is to feel like your systems for organizing your life can evolve constantly.”
    — Oliver Berkman [09:16]

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4. Takeaway #3: Make Your Tasks Specific & Actionable

• Include Only What’s Necessary:

  • Daily-life tasks (e.g., “Buy groceries”) can go on your list, but don’t clutter it with things that take under 2 minutes—just do those right away. [11:51]

    “If it takes less than two minutes, just do it right then and there.”
    — Angel Trinidad [11:51]

• Break Down Big Goals:

  • Avoid vague items like “Redecorate apartment”—instead, list the next tangible action (e.g., “Call hardware store for an estimate,” “Go look at tile,” etc.). [12:27]
  • Limit your active task list to just a few items at a time (4–5), only adding a new one after completing another. [13:06]

“So often things hang around on our to do lists, and we don't get them done because we're not even expressing them in a doable form.”
— Oliver Berkman [12:27]

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5. Takeaway #4: Decide What to Let Go ("Creative Neglect")

• The Myth of Doing It All:
  • You can’t be great at everything at once—so proactively choose areas to deprioritize. [13:28]
  • Own your choice to “fail” at something for this season of life (e.g., a messy house while having a newborn and a full-time job). [13:55]

“Instead of constantly being dismayed when I realize that I'm not superhuman, I'm going to make a decision about a few things in advance that for this season of my life, I'm just not going to be doing.”
— Oliver Berkman [13:55]

• Mindset Shift:
  • Seeing your neglected areas as proof of your priorities can relieve guilt and reinforce your intentional choices. [14:17]

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6. The Big Recap & Closing Thoughts

Key Takeaways:

1. Figure out what matters—Set priorities, whether it’s one big goal or several current necessities.
2. Pick a system—Paper or digital, timeboxed or freeform list. Let it evolve.
3. Fill your list mindfully—Include both daily/urgent tasks and granular steps towards your big goals.
4. Choose what not to do—Intentionally let go of the non-essential without guilt.

• Reminder: “To do lists exist to serve us. We don't answer to them.” [14:22]

• On self-worth and productivity:

“There's nothing you need to do to earn your right to exist.”
— Paraphrased by Marielle Segarra from Oliver Berkman [15:37]

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Memorable Quotes & Moments

• On intentionality:
  “Wouldn't it be great to fill our to do lists with intention so the stuff on them is actually helping us get somewhere.”
  — Marielle Segarra [03:46]

• On paper lists:
  “When you cross it off. There's nothing like it.”
  — Angel Trinidad [07:10]

• On system evolution:
  “An important thing here is to feel like your systems for organizing your life can evolve constantly.”
  — Oliver Berkman [09:16]

• On choosing your ‘failures’:
  “Pick something to fail at. You don't have to do everything all at once, and you definitely don't have to do it all well.”
  — Marielle Segarra [14:04]

• Self-compassion:
  “There's nothing you need to do to earn your right to exist.”
  — Oliver Berkman (paraphrased by Marielle Segarra) [15:37]

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Important Timestamps

• Opening reflection on to-do lists: [00:25]
• Angel Trinidad on aligning lists intentionally: [01:33]
• Game changer goal questions: [04:33]
• Oliver Berkman on the ‘why’ exercise: [05:37]
• "Do these choices enlarge or diminish me?" [06:10]
• Paper vs. digital lists: [07:10]
• Timeboxing explained: [07:56]
• Limit task list to 4–5 items: [13:06]
• Creative neglect: [13:28]
• Recap of main takeaways: [14:17]
• Self-worth not tied to productivity: [15:25]

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Final Thoughts

The episode reframes the to-do list as a tool for intentional living: focus on what truly matters, make your steps concrete, let go of the rest—and remember that your humanity comes first, not your productivity.

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Transcript

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[Marielle Segarra]

Hey, it's Marielle. I keep a to do list on a notepad on my desk, and when I looked at it not too long ago, I noticed something. It's kind of all over the place. On a given day, it might read make allergist appointment Buy razors Retile Kitchen floor Throw out compost Microblading question mark. Microblading, by the way, is something you do to make your eyebrows look fuller. It's like a tattoo that lasts a couple years. I mean, the list is filled with tasks, but some are big and some are small, some are urgent and some are definitely not. Some I'm not even sure should be on there, like the microblading, which I frantically scribbled down after the lady at my eyebrow threading salon asked who messed up my eyebrows so bad? Hi. Yeah, that was me and Tweezer. But yeah, I just never felt like I've had a good system for making a to do list and deciding what goes on it. And I don't think I'm alone in that. So on this episode of Life Kit, we are exploring how to make a better to do list. Because there's a lot we want to do and a well made to do list can help.

[Angel Trinidad]

When you make a to do list that's aligned intentionally with what you want out of your life, it's really powerful.

[Marielle Segarra]

We'll teach you how to break down your goals into actionable tasks and to figure out a to do list system that works for you.

[Announcer]

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[Katie Milkman]

comes from Charles Schwab with their original podcast Choiceology. Choiceology is a show about the psychology and economics behind people's decisions. Download the latest episode and [e-mail] podcast

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[Marielle Segarra]

so to do Lists They're a tool we use to get stuff done right? And I mean, how good does it feel when you finally cross off that task that's been hanging over your head? But warning to do lists can also become a trap. They can feed our impulse to stay productive at all times. The thing is, we don't want to make a better to do list just so we can indiscriminately accomplish more.

[Angel Trinidad]

It's about doing what matters.

[Marielle Segarra]

That's Angel Trinidad, the CEO and founder of Passion Planner, a company that makes digital and paper planners that show people how to break down their goals into day to day actions. You can access a free version of the planner on their website. So takeaway number one in making a better to do list. As angel was saying, decide what matters to you in this moment. Because wouldn't it be great to fill our to do lists with intention so the stuff on them is actually helping us get somewhere. One way to do this is to come up with a big picture goal. Something that's especially important to you right now. Something that would make a big impact in your life. Angel calls it a game changer.

[Angel Trinidad]

What is that one thing that would make everything easier, better? And that answer is different for everyone.

[Marielle Segarra]

To come up with that goal, ask yourself some questions.

[Angel Trinidad]

What do I want to be? What do I want to experience and what do I want to have?

[Marielle Segarra]

Maybe you want to be more present in your physical body. If so, your goal could be to run a 5K or maybe you want to give back to your community. So your goal is to volunteer once a week or you want to become a doctor. So your goal? Take the MCAT now. Sometimes you don't choose the goal. Life hands it to you.

[Angel Trinidad]

Like sometimes your parent is sick or sometimes your dog is sick or maybe you need to find a job or else you're not going to eat.

[Marielle Segarra]

And that might be your reality for now. Whatever it is, once you have a goal, you'll break it down into actionable steps and deadlines to put on your to do list, and we'll get to that. First though, I want to acknowledge this goal making approach might feel kind of top down. Like maybe you don't have a big picture goal in mind yet, and that's okay. Oliver Berkman is a journalist and author. He wrote the book 4000 Time Management for Mortals. That's how many weeks are in the average human life, by the way. And he says another option is to let your current to do list guide you.

[Oliver Berkman]

There are various exercises out there. Like you might know the one that involves asking why five times in succession.

[Marielle Segarra]

For instance, my to do list says retile kitchen floor. Oliver says, I could work backwards from there.

[Oliver Berkman]

So, like I want to retile my floor. Why? To make that room look better.

[Marielle Segarra]

Why?

[Oliver Berkman]

And you know, eventually you hopefully get to something that feels like a bedrock value of your life. And if you don't, maybe that's a sign that it's a kind of a zombie project that could be easily abandoned.

[Marielle Segarra]

Another tip from Oliver, look at the stuff that's filling your to do list at the moment and ask, do these

[Oliver Berkman]

choices enlarge me or diminish me?

[Marielle Segarra]

He says this question comes from the psychotherapist James Hollis, and he finds it really clarifying and more useful than asking something like, is this making me happy?

[Oliver Berkman]

You know, lots of life is not so happy, but can be really meaningful. And plenty of pleasures are kind of shallow and pointless and you don't want to fill up your life with them.

[Marielle Segarra]

But does this enlarge me? Well, let's use work as an example. Maybe your job right now is hard, but is it the kind of hard that's helping you grow as a person and develop skills, or is it the pointless kind of hard? If it's the latter, maybe it's time to add update resume and pick three jobs to apply to to your to do list. Once you have a sense of your priorities and your goals, it's time for takeaway. 2. Pick a system, a way of making a to do list that works for you. One question to get you started. Paper or digital? Angel says some people like paper to do lists because they're concrete and tactile.

[Angel Trinidad]

And what I also love about to do lists on paper is when you cross it off. There's nothing like it.

[Marielle Segarra]

Also, paper comes to an end when

[Angel Trinidad]

you put it digitally. There's no end. You can keep going and I think that's when to do lists get really overwhelming. It's kind of like a cluttered room. When it's too much, then you just avoid it completely.

[Marielle Segarra]

Digital has its pluses though. If you make a to do list on your phone, it's searchable and quite possibly more organized. If you do choose digital, there are lots of websites and apps you can try. Some are built into your phone, some you can download. Folks on the Life Kit team have used the free versions of Todoist, Notion, Asana and Trello. Another question to ask yourself is how do you want to structure your to do list? Some people prefer a kind of calendar approach with the hours of the day listed.

[Angel Trinidad]

I like to time block on my agenda and it's literally making a square of time for the task.

[Marielle Segarra]

So you know, Thursday from 2pm to 6pm I'll be working on my novel. Wednesday from 7 to 8pm I'll be at soccer practice. Friday from 5 to 5:30 I'll be cleaning my apartment. This method is called timeboxing and it can be a good way to understand how much you can realistically tackle in a day. Since you're visually blocking off time for each of your to dos.

[Angel Trinidad]

That kind of awareness gets you thinking, am I spending my time in a way that makes sense for me and what my intention is for my life?

[Marielle Segarra]

But again, this is about finding a system that works for you. For Oliver, trying to plan this way feels too rigid.

[Oliver Berkman]

I've never really found it works to make a very rigorous association between a task and the time of day. Because my moods, my responsibilities as a parent, random emergencies that arise. You just can't sort of say, I'm absolutely going to be doing this thing between 3 and 3:40. You have to with appointments and things. But if you try and do it with everything very quickly, it feels imprisoning. It feels like life isn't any fun anymore, even if you're working on things that matter.

[Marielle Segarra]

So another option is a straight up list of tasks. Call me old fashioned, but that's what I'm sticking with. Remember, by the way, whatever you pick, it's just a starting point.

[Oliver Berkman]

An important thing here is to feel like your systems for organizing your life can evolve constantly.

[Marielle Segarra]

We'll have more Life Kit after the break.

[Announcer]

This message comes from American Home Shield. An AHS home warranty helps protect your major home systems and appliances, whether they're brand new or part of your home's history. A home warranty is different than homeowner's insurance, which covers things that might happen, like fire, theft or storm damage. A home warranty covers what will happen, like normal wear and tear on the items you use every day, like your oven, fridge, AC and plumbing. American Home Shield will fix a covered item when it breaks down, and if they can't repair it, they'll replace it. American Home Shield don't worry, be warranty get 20% off all [e-mail] NPR and see promo details. See AHS.com, for coverage details, including service fees, limitations and exclusions.

[Katie Milkman]

This message comes from Midi Health, a virtual care platform for women in perimenopause and menopause. Chief Medical Officer Dr. Kathleen Jordan shares the wide range of symptoms they work to address for women in midlife.

[Marielle Segarra]

There's dry eyes, dry hair, dry skin. There's dry mouth, trouble sleeping, panic and anxiety attacks. When we ask patients about common symptoms, they on average, they report six MIDI

[Katie Milkman]

Health committed to helping women in midlife with perimenopause and menopause care. Accessible via telehealth [e-mail] this message comes

[Announcer]

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[Marielle Segarra]

Once you have a system in mind, Takeaway three It's time to fill your list. Let's start with an acknowledgment. There are some things you just have to get done the tasks of daily living Refill that prescription. Buy groceries. Get more toilet paper. Those tasks can go on your to do list, but they don't necessarily have to.

[Angel Trinidad]

There's this thing within the productivity world called the two minute rule, and it's if it takes less than two minutes, just do it right then and there. You know it's not worth spending the bandwidth to write it down. Hopefully remember it. Hopefully do it.

[Marielle Segarra]

You could also consider automating some of these things so they never make the to do list at all. Like maybe you have toilet paper delivered to your house once a month. You're gonna need it. Okay, so we're meeting our daily needs now we want to reflect our bigger goals on our to do list. Like, maybe one of mine is to redecorate my apartment. The thing is, and this is what trips a lot of people up, that's not a to do list item.

[Oliver Berkman]

So often things hang around on our to do lists, and we don't get them done because we're not even expressing them in a doable form.

[Marielle Segarra]

Let's break this down. Which parts of the apartment do I want to redecorate? Well, definitely the kitchen. I want to replace the tile floor. Still not actionable enough. We're going to have to go even smaller. Call the hardware store for an estimate. Now that's doable. Go look at tile. That's doable. Order the tile. Also doable. These are the kind of things to put on your list or in your planner. Oliver says you also might consider limiting your to do list to four or five doable tasks at a time.

[Oliver Berkman]

And you're not going to add a new one to that list until you've moved one away, thereby freeing up a

[Marielle Segarra]

slot that can help you stay focused because you can't do everything at once. And that's takeaway. 4. Pick something to let go. In his book, Oliver talks about the art of creative neglect. He borrowed that phrasing from graphic novelist and creativity coach Jessica Abel.

[Oliver Berkman]

You're going to be not excelling on a whole load of dimensions. If you're going to be, like, a really good parent and a really good employee, then you're probably not going to be able to be a really good, I don't know, runner of triathlons or something. There's a million examples.

[Marielle Segarra]

We really can't do it all, at least not simultaneously. So as you're making your to do list with your big picture goals in mind, pick something to fail at, too.

[Oliver Berkman]

To say, well, okay, instead of constantly being dismayed when I realize that I'm not superhuman, I'm going to make a decision about a few things in advance that for this season of my life, I'm just not going to be doing so. Like, you know what? I'm not going to be keeping a tidy, beautiful house while dealing with a newborn baby and working full time. You know?

[Marielle Segarra]

And he says, when you choose what to fail at ahead of time, you're really changing your mindset. Because months from now, when you see your messy house, maybe it won't actually feel like you're failing. Instead, you could see it as a reminder of your values in this moment and what you've committed to. Okay, time for A recap takeaway 1 Figure out what matters to you. What are your priorities at this moment? Do you have a big goal or project in mind? Takeaway 2 Pick a to do list system, paper or digital? Hour by hour, or a simple list of tasks the system can change. This is just a starting point. Takeaway 3 Fill your list with the tasks of daily living, but also with steps toward your big picture goals. Pick something to fail at. You don't have to do everything all at once, and you definitely don't have to do it all well. Also, remember that to do lists exist to serve us. We don't answer to them. So if your to do list is making you feel bad about yourself or your life, crumple it up, throw it out, and start over again when you're ready.

[Oliver Berkman]

I think that a lot of us seem to go through life feeling like we're in sort of productivity debt. You know, we've got to work really hard today to try to pay off the debt by the end of the day.

[Marielle Segarra]

But remember, Oliver says there's nothing you need to do to earn your right to exist. Before we go, an editorial note we want to let you know that Angel Trinidad, the founder and CEO of Passion Planner, and Life Kit reporter producer Andy Tagle have been friends since college. But we asked angel to share their experience with us not because of this personal relationship, but because four other Life Kit staffers independently discovered Passion Planner and found it to be a really useful tool to help them manage their time. You're supporting Life Kit just by listening to this episode, but if you feel like showing your support for Life Kit even more than you already do, you can sign up for Life Kit Plus. Find out more at plus.NPR.org LifeKit this episode of Life Kit was produced by Audrey Wynne. It was edited by Sylvie Douglas. Our digital editor is Malika Gharib, and and our Visuals editor is CJ Ricolon. Meghan Cain is our senior supervising editor and Beth Donovan is our Executive producer. Our production team also includes Andy Taegle, Claire Marie Schneider, Margaret Serino and Mika Ellison. Engineering support comes from Kwesi Lee and Josephine Nyonai. I'm Marielle Segarra. Thanks for listening.

[Announcer]

This message comes from American Home Shield. An AHS home warranty helps protect your major home systems and appliances, whether they're brand new or part of your home's history. A home warranty is different than homeowners insurance, which covers things that might happen like fire, theft or storm damage. A home warranty covers what will happen, like normal wear and tear on the items you use every day, like your oven, fridge, AC and plumbing. American Home Shield will fix a covered item when it breaks down, and if they can't repair it, they'll replace it. American Home Shield don't worry. Be warranty get 20% off all [e-mail] NPR and see promo details. See AHS.com contracts for coverage details, including service fees, limitations and exclusions. This message comes from Northwestern Mutual. Their financial professionals will build a tailored plan based on your goals, looking out for blind spots and new opportunities. Get [e-mail] the Northwestern Mutual Life Insurance Company, Milwaukee, Wisconsin this message comes from

[Katie Milkman]

Charles Schwab with their original podcast Choiceology, hosted by Katie Milkman, an award winning behavioral scientist and author of the bestselling book how to Change. Choiceology is a show about the psychology and economics behind people's decisions. Hear true stories from Nobel laureates, historians, authors, athletes and more about why people do the things they do. Download the latest episode and subscribe at schwab.com podcast or wherever you listen.