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- [00:00]
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Elise Hu
Hey, let's go on a trip together. Let's get a bunch of friends or a few couples and I'll do a getaway. It sounds like an awesome idea and at first, but say you're abroad in Africa and someone gets left out.
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Lisa Kays
I can remember being so angry.
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Elise Hu
Or you're the lone introvert among a group of raging extroverts in the Balkans. It turned out to be one of
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Janet Webster
the worst journeys I've ever been on
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Elise Hu
in my life or people start hooking up on a semester abroad.
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Janet Webster
Couples started really quickly in the beginning and by the end had completely ruined the group dynamic.
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Elise Hu
Frayed nerves add to tension on getaways.
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Akeem Bruce
I had a time. Obviously not the way that you want the trips to go.
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Elise Hu
And if you're not careful, that big camping trip you agree to, the one that's supposed to be a fun time, is the last time for your friend group. And we haven't done any group traveling since then. It's vacation season. Getting together your favorite people for a getaway can make for great memories. But none of us want to make the kind of memories that we'll have to block out. This is your NPR Life kit on navigating group travel. We've talked with conflict coaches, therapists, group tour guides and globetrotters of all sorts to prepare you with the emotional goods for group travel. I'm Elise Hu, a correspondent based at NPR west in Culver City. And those were the voices of Ariel Seabright, Wu, Amy Kato, Janet Webster, Akeem Bruce and Heather Stevens. They are listeners whose relationships were put to the test or worse, destroyed by traveling together. The goal sounds simple in theory, but can be tough in practice to have a good time while avoiding the pitfalls and personality clashes that can come with traveling as a group. Surviving. No, thriving when you travel with other people. That's after the break.
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Elise Hu
Travel and together can be a tricky combo because going away itself is already a lot on your senses.
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Lisa Kays
The nature of travel is that you don't know what's coming and there are often glitches.
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Elise Hu
This is Lisa Kays, Peace Corps volunteer turned therapist in private practice in Washington, D.C. she provides psychotherapy to individuals, couples and groups.
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Lisa Kays
When we're at home and we have glitches, we know how to handle them. We know kind of what the routes are. If we need to make a detour, we, we know where the detour goes. We can get reoriented. But when you're traveling, there's this unknown piece about it that I think adds layers of stress that then when you're also trying to manage social dynamics, so you're also trying to be nice and be friendly and have your best face forward, it's almost like it's too much.
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Elise Hu
So if you decide to go somewhere with a group of your friends or coworkers, takeaway number one is the most important one. Align your expectations in advance and agree on the ground rules for how to make decisions.
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Lisa Kays
For instance, if you are traveling and somebody has the intention of sitting on the beach reading books and just vegging out and doing nothing, and someone else thinks that they're going on a sightseeing tour, you're gonna have instant conflict. And so you wanna really talk about, you know, what are we looking for in this trip?
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Elise Hu
You can call it what you want, pre trip counseling or setting up a social contract. But when you do it, ask yourselves, why are we going on this trip? To relax or to work? To learn about history, to reunite a family, to conquer a physical challenge. Talk about the goal and intentions beforehand. And after the why is set, then you can move on to expectations for other potential problem areas. Priya Parker knows this.
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Priya Parker
I am a conflict resolution facilitator. And one of the core elements of conflict resolution is you imagine future problematic scenarios and you ask people about them ahead of time.
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Elise Hu
She also wrote a book on gathering called the Art of Gathering. She calls the most problematic Scenarios, the structural ones. When the norms and expected behavior on a trip don't match up. She says those structural issues can be confronted before you go.
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Priya Parker
One example from marriage counseling that I love is before a couple gets married, they come together and they answer a series of questions. And one of the questions they answer is, at what price does an item need to be before you check with the other person of whether you're going to spend that much? And people will write down like one couple, one person will say $20 and look over at, you know, their partner and their partner has like $2,000. And in the same sense, when you're traveling with friends to think about and it's not to take the joy out of all of it, but to think about some of the structural elements. How are we going to deal with money? What are our norms around phone or not phone?
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Elise Hu
You can decide how specific you want to get, but it's helpful to have a pre trip call or to make a shared document where expectations can be agreed upon in advance. One issue to include is how you will make decisions as a group. Will it be majority rules? Parker says there are a lot more group decision making avenues besides that one. I'll let her walk us through.
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Priya Parker
You're deciding what to do for dinner, and there's four of you or six of you. So the first decision is, do we go out or do we cook at home? It's like a decision tree. Okay, how do you decide? You can decide based on consensus. You can fit the group to say, we'll go with however the most tired person is feeling.
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Lisa Kays
Right.
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Priya Parker
Or you could say, we'll go with whoever's willing to foot the bill for everybody else. Right. But you can be playful around these decisions. We'll go based on however many people are willing to cook. You know, if everybody says, let's go home, but no one's willing to cook, then you could say, okay, let's go out.
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Elise Hu
We could spend a lot more time on this tip. Because this tip for aligning expectations, including how you'll make decisions, often gets overlooked. So don't forget, takeaway one, make key decisions before you go. Now, even if the goals are clear, personalities can still clash. Introverts need time off to recharge and often don't claim it. How much time are you supposed to be together? So takeaway two is for the introverts among us. Set boundaries for how you spend your time. Carve out enough time for yourself. Our therapist, Lisa Kayes, describes herself as an introvert.
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Lisa Kays
I'm going to A conference this weekend. And people will be, you know, hanging out, partying, doing all this fun stuff late into the night. And at 9 o', clock I'm like, peace, you guys, I'm going to my room. I just can't do it.
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Elise Hu
So she figures out how to carve time for herself. And at the start of an adventure,
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Lisa Kays
I always do this look at, like, how much group time, where do I get my alone time? Figuring out what are the things I'd want to do alone. And then if I am traveling with somebody, letting them know that and just making sure that that works in terms of what they're wanting and that it's not personal at all, that this is something I'd be doing even if I was hanging out with like my favorite celebrity that I thought was super cool, I might still be like, I have to go to bed at 9 o'.
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Elise Hu
Clock.
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Lisa Kays
Okay, I'm tired. Like, I gotta read.
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Elise Hu
But Tom Hanks is out there.
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Lisa Kays
Yeah, I know. Or George Clinton. I know George. I just, I have to go recharge, you know, that's just how it is
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Elise Hu
when you know ahead of time you're planning to stay in, set those boundaries out loud.
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Lisa Kays
It really does take, I think, a certain sense of self worth and confidence to be able to feel like, you can say, this is what I need to do for me, I think when we get caught up in people pleasing and being too polite, that's when things can really go south. And so the more direct and just clear, then everybody has a good time.
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Elise Hu
And there's a point to this and it makes everything better for everyone. When you are recharged and feel good, you're the best. You okay? Another personality difference that can come into play. Problems between planners, people who like to plan every moment, and the more spontaneous folks who want to see where their moods take them. To avoid this kind of clash, therapist Lisa Kays suggests tip number three. In any trip, have a mix of scheduled days and. And unscheduled days.
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Lisa Kays
I don't want to be on a clock. Like, I. For me, the meaning of vacation is not being on a clock. But I've learned that for other people, it's seeing what they want to see and getting to do it. And you know, to do that in a short period of time, you sometimes have to be scheduled. But again, it's like just balancing that so that the whole thing is not on a clock. But I think if I know, like, okay, two days of this are going to be scheduled, but then I get my reward. Like sit around Day. It's usually like a really fun mix.
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Elise Hu
Now that we've addressed introvert, extrovert, divides and planner non planner types. What if the person you thought you had pegged, the friend you always knew to be one way takes on an alter ego while on holiday? Or if that person is you. What if the tension during a trip is between you and you? Your usual regular personality that everyone knows and loves versus your stressed out road personality. Akeem Bruce had it happen to him when he was showing his friends around Philly, a city he had visited the previous summer and wanted wanted his friends to enjoy as much as he did.
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Akeem Bruce
One of the things that was on my list that was actually at the top of my list was the hot wings.
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Elise Hu
Perfect. Because one of his friends had a high tolerance for spicy food.
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Akeem Bruce
So just wanted to put him in his place. Basically, I'm like, okay, I'm gonna show you what's really spicy. We're gonna try this stuff. It's like nothing that I'd ever tasted before. It was absolutely insane.
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Elise Hu
He's trying to create an experience for his friend. Show him what's what. Let him feel the burn.
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Akeem Bruce
He bites into it first and he looks at me and says, it's not that spicy. And I was like, excuse me. And I really wanted it to work, so I grabbed a wing, went and sat in front of the sink like ready to spray water into my mouth and. But it was like a regular hot wing.
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Elise Hu
His alter ego took over. Excited, Akeen became exhausted.
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Akeem Bruce
Akeen after that happened, for whatever reason, so sad. I just lost it. Basically. My energy was like zapped from that and I just wasn't as enthusiastic and I was sad. It's just that I've been so excited about these stupid wings and have the audacity to be upset about it afterwards.
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Elise Hu
Here's therapist Lisa Case.
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Lisa Kays
I think that we can underestimate sometimes the stress that goes on when we're traveling and then sort of have. It comes out in these many nervous breakdowns that you have when you're traveling. Every single thing is a new decision and it's exhausting. Even if it's fun and even if you're having a great time, it is a bit of an assault on your body and your mind. And so I think the way that we discharge some of that is by going a little crazy over chicken wings. And, you know, it happens to the best of us.
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Elise Hu
Coping with this is takeaway number four. To avoid losing your cool, bring some aspects of your regular routine on the road. You know how young Children travel with transitional objects like a little lovey, a bear, a blanket, some sort of item that feels like home. You can do that too so that you don't lose touch with yourself.
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Lisa Kays
When we travel, we tend to let go of all of our self care. But asking yourself, like, you know, could I get up and do like three yoga poses and maybe that would help me kind of reset? Can I take this one practice that I do at home with me on the road so that I have some sort of touchstone and some grounding to my old self and to my comfortable self, you know, or can I listen to like, you know, my three songs that I always listen to on the radio? Or can I read whatever book? Like what can you take with you so that you're not completely abandoning yourself and your life
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Elise Hu
when you do run into conflict? How it's handled is often what makes the difference between lasting connection and lasting conflict. Rebecca Sorenson has seen it go both ways.
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Rebecca Sorenson
I was a tour guide for close to eight years for a luxury adventure travel company and so I took people on biking and hiking vacations all over the world.
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Elise Hu
The goals in this case were explore new terrain on wheels. But even with a clear objective, the claws can come out.
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Rebecca Sorenson
I still feel a tiny bit of
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Elise Hu
rage all these years later. She's haunted by one particularly difficult traveler, a woman who made everything about herself. Sorensen took a tongue lashing when the already demanding lady expected the whole group to help her on a day when the group had independent free time.
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Rebecca Sorenson
I have fingernail marks in my palm because I'm squeezing it so hard to just not be, you know, to not react or not do anything or even like physically touch her because I wanted to move her away from me and I just let her lay into me. And it's one of my biggest regrets in the whole time was just that I never stood up for myself. And I was, I think it was in protection of the group, you know, of like it wasn't just me that it was going to affect if I did something or said something back or whatever. And we're stuck in this valley that really we were her only way out of it.
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Elise Hu
The lesson from this is takeaway number Confront social issues head on with honesty. Don't avoid conflict in order to be polite.
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Rebecca Sorenson
Addressing issues immediately is definitely the best way to go. And a lot of times as a tour guide you have to find creative ways to do that without it being too direct. If there is misbehavior that is aggressive, it needs to be dealt with immediately to save the rest of the folks and the people on trip because it's not fair to them.
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Elise Hu
Since we're getting into relationship threatening conflicts, let's bring Priya Parker back in. Parker calls conflict avoidance unhealthy peace.
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Priya Parker
So unhealthy peace is peace that's not really peace. It's where the observable behavior. If a stranger was looking at you, the stranger would think, oh, everything's fine here. They seem to be enjoying themselves. Everybody's kind and polite and this looks like a really great group, but underneath, everybody's simmering and seeping. I mean, I'm half Indian, half white American. So as my half white American sign, I could say it's WASP culture.
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Elise Hu
The only way to break past this kind of unhealthy peace is to have some healthy confrontation if you are in angry silence. Typically everyone knows that situation exists, but they're avoiding it to avoid escalating things, or they think they are. Here's Lisa Case.
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Lisa Kays
I know that groups recover better and can deal. When somebody says, like, guys is something weird, you know, this seems weird because usually everybody's like, oh, thank God somebody said it. But I realize, you know, people at different ages, different groups, different relationships, maturity levels, that's not always going to be possible. But I think the closer you can get to it, usually the quicker you can recover potentially.
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Elise Hu
We're not all taught the skills to have these honest conversations, but the therapists say honing the art of talking through issues honestly can save friendships from derailing. Being unafraid to get into the nitty gritty is the key to getting along. She suggests finding a humorous way to acknowledge the tension. But if that's not the right vibe, bringing it up at all is better than avoidance. On the flip side of this, what if a group gets along a little too well or certain members of the group start getting along real well?
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Janet Webster
What's better than traveling with somebody that you're romantically interested in? It gives a little more magic to everything.
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Elise Hu
Janet Webster was the seventh wheel on a group study abroad semester in Sub Saharan Africa.
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Janet Webster
We would all be playing cards and then someone would be like, hey, do you want to go on a walk? And not invite anyone ever, except for the person that they ended up being in a relationship with.
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Elise Hu
I mean, these people just met.
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Janet Webster
It was my good friend who was part of this, and I snapped at her and I was like, you should not do this this early because you don't know anything about him. All you know is that he also speaks English.
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Elise Hu
This is a common one in Group travel, if you're not already paired up, the everyone's hooking up scenario, and they
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Janet Webster
got together and then broke up and then got back together. And so for the rest of the trip, we were all forced to sit at tables with several pairs of exes and exes who knew each other and people who were dating your ex. Like, that was all happening in this seven person group while we were already dealing with the stress of traveling.
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Elise Hu
If you broaden this problem, dyads and triads of cliques also break out in the group. So you could run into similar issues there. Therapist Lisa Kay says having an inclusive group means making one another feel included.
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Lisa Kays
I think couples do change the dynamic of groups.
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Elise Hu
Kay says while we can't stop people from falling in love or lust if they do, takeaway number six is this. If your travel group starts pairing off, couple drama doesn't get to dominate the group dynamic.
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Lisa Kays
They don't get to talk about it with anybody. Like, we are not becoming your, like, you know, love life. I'm not spending my vacation doing love life counseling for you. You need to have like a phone, a friend or somebody not on the trip to call and deal with this. Because I think that's where the dynamic gets weird is when it's like, oh, he said this. Do you think it meant this? And what's going on and why is he not. And that's not fun for anyone.
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Elise Hu
We love love. We just don't have to hear about it all the time. Ultimately, we want to enhance our relationships when we travel together and not diminish them. So our final takeaway is this. Be friends enough to forgive.
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Lisa Kays
I think generally conflict tends to get more awkward the longer it goes on. And then you get caucuses of people talking about each other. And then you get, I mean, it just gets like worse and worse. And that's why I think cracking a joke, calling attention to it, like people think it's going to make it worse, but it actually diffuses it.
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Elise Hu
Listen, listen, listen and talk out your feelings.
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Lisa Kays
But it's. That's why I say it's a brave thing to do. It's a hard thing to do if
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Elise Hu
you can let it go and forgive. To rewind. Remember these top tips for group travel. One, align those expectations ahead of time.
- [19:27]
Priya Parker
Have a fun conversation over a meal about what you want this trip to be.
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Elise Hu
Takeaway 2 For the introverts, carve out time for yourself. Set boundaries for how much time you'll spend being social.
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Lisa Kays
I will, you know, kind of plan blocks of time where it's I am going to be by myself and it's quiet and nobody is talking to me.
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Elise Hu
Three in any trip, have a mix of scheduled days and unscheduled days.
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Lisa Kays
If you're going on a five day trip saying look, we're gonna have two days of downtime or two days where it's unscheduled, but then let the planners do their thing.
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Elise Hu
Is your grown up lovey bring something from your home routine on the road?
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Lisa Kays
I think we think we're grown up and we don't need those kinds of things. But I'm not totally sure it's true. So kind of thinking like, huh, what's my transitional object that I could take with me to make myself feel better? Like what is that for you and how can you bring it with you so that you don't lose touch with your at home self?
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Elise Hu
Takeaway 5 if you do get into it, diffuse tension by talking out tough issues. Don't let that unhealthy piece fester.
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Priya Parker
The deepest element of conflict resolution is an invitation to make the implicit explicit.
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Elise Hu
Takeaway 6 is about coupling up. Couple drama doesn't get to dominate the group dynamic.
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Lisa Kays
I think it's one of those things you can't stop. But you can certainly encourage some norms and behaviors and expectations around how it gets dealt with in the group because it can be annoying and finally be
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Elise Hu
friends enough to forgive. You want the kind of memories you'll look back on fondly? That works for vacations or staycations. And that's it for this episode of Life Kit For Travel. Thank you so much for listening. Big thanks to Lisa Kays, Priya Parker, Rebecca Sorenson and all our listeners who called in to generously share your stories. Want more Life Kit? Subscribe to our newsletter. For more on everything from meditation to compassion to happiness to recycling to kids and reading, go to npr.org lifekitnewsletter and whether you're going away or planning a staycation, we'll leave you with the most life sustaining tip of all.
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Lisa Kays
Breathe and breathe. Yes, always breathe.
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Elise Hu
And here, as always, is a completely random tip this time from Life Kit listener Nikki Budnik. Try drinking a couple glasses of water
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Lisa Kays
in the morning as soon as you
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Elise Hu
wake up up even before you have your coffee, you'll feel super refreshed and your gut will definitely thank you later. I'm Elise Hu. Thanks for listening.
- [21:59]
Lisa Kays
Bitcoin needs a huge amount of electricity to power its computers and that has
- [22:04]
Elise Hu
created some very unique money making opportunities
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in different parts of the world.
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Lisa Kays
It is also causing some governments concern. Listen and subscribe to the indicator from npr.
- [22:16]
Sponsor/Announcer
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