How to clean when it's the last thing you want to do

Summary

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Life Kit (NPR) — "How to clean when it’s the last thing you want to do"

Host: Marielle Segarra
Guest: Casey Davis, therapist and author of How to Keep House While Drowning
Original Release: June 29, 2026

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Episode Overview

This episode of Life Kit delves into the emotional and logistical barriers that make cleaning hard, especially when you’re overwhelmed, low on energy, or struggling with mental health challenges. Host Marielle Segarra speaks with therapist Casey Davis, who reframes cleaning not as a moral obligation, but as an act of self-kindness. Together, they explore Casey’s accessible “Five Things Tidying Method,” designed for getting your living space functional quickly and compassionately.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

Shifting the Narrative: Cleaning is Not a Moral Obligation

• Cleaning often feels shameful or like a moral failure (00:15–01:36).
  • Quote:
    “If you ask someone, do you feel shame if you leave your dishes in the sink for too long? A lot of people say yes.” — Casey Davis (00:31)
• Rather than serving your space, your space should serve you (01:36–02:16).
  • Quote:
    “You don’t exist to serve your space. Your space exists to serve you.” — Marielle Segarra (01:45)
  • Quote:
    “Everyone…no matter who they are, no matter what they've done, no matter what they are struggling with, deserves to live in a functional space.” — Casey Davis (02:16)

The Five Things Tidying Method (04:46–14:29)

1. Trash

• Start with the biggest trash bag possible and collect all garbage in the room—do not leave the room to dispose of it yet to avoid distraction (05:40–06:53).
• Tip: Get as much done while motivation lasts; motivation will likely fade quickly.

2. Dishes

• Simply gather dishes and move them to the sink (07:01).
• Flexible tip: Use laundry baskets (preferably without holes) or rolling hampers to make dish-gathering easier (07:09).
• The “dirty dish rack” method: Place dirty dishes directly on a dish rack (not in the sink) so they’re organized and the sink remains usable.
  • Quote:
    “I would stick [dirty dishes] on the dish rack dirty...at the end of the night, I'm looking at this very organized dish rack…It was just smoother, easier. I felt less resistance, less procrastination, less avoidance.” — Casey Davis (08:15)

3. Laundry

• Don’t over-categorize: Anything on the floor goes into the hamper, regardless of “clean/dirty/maybe” status (10:26–11:33).
  • Quote:
    “In my mind, things have to be one step...If it’s not hung up, it’s going into the washer.” — Casey Davis (10:26)
• During quick cleanups, collect all laundry into a basket and leave it in a set place, to be dealt with later (11:14–11:33).

4. Things That Have a Place

• Gather items that have a designated spot and either immediately put them away if convenient, or pile them near their home to place all at once (11:34–12:17).

5. Things That Don’t Have a Place

• “Check in moment”: Decide if you have motivation/energy to tackle this now or later (12:38–13:35).
• Options:
  • Set aside in a basket for later
  • Purge/donate unnecessary items
  • Combine with similar items (“cousins or close friends”) in the home
  • “Do what feels feasible for you” in the moment
  • Quote:
    “Sometimes things don’t have a place because, like, you don’t need that thing…Is there anything I can purge or donate?” — Casey Davis (13:09)

Ending Each Cycle: Functional > Perfect

• Only after finishing all five categories, then dispose of trash, move laundry, and do (or delay) dishes (13:55–14:08).
• Adjust to fit what feels sustainable: Do dreaded tasks first or last, depending on your preference (14:08–14:29).

Viewing Care Tasks as Future Kindness

• Shift mindset: Care tasks aren’t punishments, but gifts to your future self (14:29–16:11).
  • Quote:
    “I want to start thinking of [care tasks] as forward-facing tasks...a real kindness to morning-me to be able to just have a clean dish to eat off of in the morning.” — Casey Davis (14:55)
  • Sometimes, rest is the kindest act:
    “And sometimes I say, I'm not gonna even touch these dishes because I deserve rest. And I do that out of kindness too.” — Casey Davis (15:56)

Recap & Final Reassurance

• You can’t "fail" at this method—if it helps, that’s great! If you lapse, just start again (16:18–16:29).
  • Quote:
    “There’s no way to fail at this. You do it and it makes your life better. And then maybe you fall off or you don’t do it, and then you go, oh, yeah, let me…I want to go pick that tool up again.” — Casey Davis (16:18)
• A messy house is not a moral failing—the dishes aren’t judging you! (16:38–end)
  • Quote:
    “A messy house is not a moral failure. The dishes aren't going to come alive and say judgmental things to you or make you a ten-course meal. You’ve been watching too many Disney movies.” — Marielle Segarra (16:38)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• 00:15–02:28 — Introduction; why cleaning is hard and reframing the narrative
• 04:27–14:29 — Full walkthrough of the Five Things Tidying Method
  • Trash: 05:40–06:53
  • Dishes & dirty dish rack method: 07:01–09:18
  • Laundry: 09:58–11:33
  • Things that have a place: 11:33–12:17
  • Things that don’t have a place: 12:17–13:55
  • End-of-cycle steps and personal preferences: 13:55–14:29
• 14:29–16:11 — Care tasks as kindness for your future self
• 16:11–16:38 — Reassurance and recap
• 16:38–end — Final perspective shift and light-hearted encouragement

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Tone & Notable Moments

• The conversation is inviting, warm, and validating—full of humor and gentle reality checks.
• Casey Davis openly discusses her own struggles (ADHD, overwhelm) and offers non-judgmental, practical advice.
• There’s embrace of imperfection and permission to adjust tips to your own capacity and style.
• The hosts often use relatable metaphors, such as the idea of dishes “judging” you or Disney movies (16:38).

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Quick Reference: The Five Things Tidying Method

1. Trash: Gather all trash, store in the room until the end
2. Dishes: Collect all dishes, bring to sink or use a specialized carry method
3. Laundry: Collect all laundry, skip over-categorizing
4. Things with a Place: Return to their spots or gather for later placement
5. Things without a Place: Check in with yourself; put in basket, purge, or find a home

Final Step: Once all five rounds are done, take out trash, start laundry, do (or delay) dishes.

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Summing Up

This episode offers practical and compassionate help for anyone who feels stuck, overwhelmed, or shamed by cleaning. The Five Things Method is a low-barrier way to restore function to your space, anchored in the central message: You are worthy of a livable home, and there is no moral failing in mess or in finding your own way to address it. When you clean, do it for your present and future self. And if you need to rest instead, that’s a valid, kind choice, too.

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Transcript

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[Marielle Segarra]

You're listening to Life Kit from npr. Hey, it's Marielle. Raise your hand if you think it's a moral failure to leave dirty dishes sitting in your sink for a day. That's kind of a funny question, right?

[Casey Davis]

I don't know anybody that would say yes. But if you ask someone, do you feel shame if you leave your dishes in the sink for too long? A lot of people say yes.

[Marielle Segarra]

I mean, it's true. Sometimes it feels like the dishes are silently judging me from across the room. Same goes for that dusty bookshelf and the unfolded laundry that's constantly giving me the side eye. That was Casey Davis, by the way. She's a therapist and she wrote a book called how to Keep House While Drowning, A Gentle Approach to Cleaning and Organizing. She says the problem is that when we think of chores as a moral obligation but we aren't doing them, it's easy to spiral.

[Casey Davis]

I'm just not responsible. I'm just not mature. I'm just not good enough. I just don't work hard enough. I'm just lazy. When you believe that that's the issue, the only solution to that is try harder, be better. But I have found, just clinically as a therapist and in speaking to other therapist friends like, that's almost never the issue.

[Marielle Segarra]

Maybe you're dealing with a chronic illness or you have adhd, or you work two jobs or you're a parent or you're just tired from life. The good news, and this is the other message of the book, you you don't exist to serve your space. Your space exists to serve you.

[Casey Davis]

Yes, there's still labor that needs to be done, but it takes off the pressure of how it's supposed to look and how it should be done. Because then the only thing that actually matters is whether my house is functioning and whether I'm able to live the kind of life I want to inside of it.

[Marielle Segarra]

And once you understand that, you can start to think of cleaning as a kindness to yourself.

[Casey Davis]

Because everyone, everyone, no matter who they are, no matter what they've done, no matter what they are struggling with, deserves to live in a functional space.

[Marielle Segarra]

On this episode of Life Kit, we're going to walk through a framework from Casey's book called the Five Things Tidying Method. It's informed by this mindset and her work as a therapist and it'll help you get your space back to functional quickly so it can start serving you again.

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[Marielle Segarra]

I spoke with Alon Cohen, who heads

[Casey Davis]

research and development at UFC Insights Engine

[Marielle Segarra]

is not here to feel technical. We are bringing it to a place where you feel like you could even have an opinion because you understand enough of what's going on.

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[Marielle Segarra]

You have some really helpful concrete frameworks in the book that can help people, for instance, clean up a room when they're having trouble mustering the energy or when the idea feels overwhelming and I want to walk through one of them. It's called the Five Things Tidying Method. Yeah, first of all, what is the concept here?

[Casey Davis]

Well, the concept is that if you got a big mess, we don't know where to start. When we do start somewhere, we feel like we work hours at something to see no progress. It feels for some of us like the whole endeavor is just so miserable. It takes a long time to sort of like take psych yourself up to do it. And so I came up with this method when I was in my early 20s because I felt all of those things. And I just sort of have to tell myself, like in any room, no matter how many things you think you see, there's really only five things. There's trash, dishes, laundry, things that have a place and things that don't have a place. And for me, if I start at the top of that list and I go category by category, ignoring everything in the room and just looking for that one category of item, it really takes care of a lot of mental blocks that I experience, and I think that's true for a lot of people.

[Marielle Segarra]

Okay, so let's say you're standing in the door of your living room and you are looking around. The first thing you do is you get a trash bag or a trash can, and you look for the garbage, right?

[Casey Davis]

Yeah. And I always get the biggest trash bag that I can.

[Marielle Segarra]

Okay. And then. So you're just collecting everything and you're putting it in the bag or the can. Are you taking the trash out at this point?

[Casey Davis]

No, I. Because one of the things that gets us stuck is that we get distracted. So if you. The more times you leave that room, the more likely you are to get distracted on some different project. And the other reason is because this is going to get our space livable and functional. Like, I can function with a trash bag sitting by the back door. I can't function with too much trash all around the house. And I. Maybe it's just me, but, like, I will have all the motivation in the world to do something, and I'll do it for, like, 30 minutes, and then all of a sudden, the motivation will fly out of my body like it has been exercised. And so, like, knowing that, like, I'm going to get to a certain point and sort of run out of motivation, I want to get as much done to make the space livable as I can.

[Marielle Segarra]

All right, so step two is dishes, right? What am I doing with the dishes?

[Casey Davis]

You're just putting them in the sink.

[Marielle Segarra]

Okay, now let's say this is the living room. There are a bunch of, like, dirty cups and stuff, maybe some plates. I'm bringing them to the kitchen.

[Casey Davis]

Yeah, you can do that. You can also get a. I like to have laundry baskets that don't have holes in them because it doubles as lots of other things. And one of the things that works well with is dishes. Like, if you want to carry around a laundry basket and put all the dishes in the laundry basket, you can do that. You can get a small rolling hamper and just pop a piece of hard cardboard on top of it, and then just put a basket on top of that and roll that sucker around and collect all those dishes. You know, depending on what works for you, what kind of makes your brain feel like it's on A greased track. The reality is there are going to be ways of doing things that make you feel like you are grinding gears with no oil, where every step of the process kind of feels miserable and you have to force it. I think you should find the way to put the smallest amount of energy to get the most functional result.

[Marielle Segarra]

Totally. Well, you have a tip for dishes. Once you are doing your dishes later on, it's the dirty dish rack method. Right? And this works really well for you.

[Casey Davis]

Yes. So I realized that it's really overwhelming to me to look at a sink full of dishes that I really dislike from a sensory perspective, putting my hands and having to get the utensils from the bottom where they're like, mixed with all the yucky water, and that I couldn't use my sink. Like, I couldn't get a pot underneath to turn the water on. And so I thought, okay, well, I would really like a way to make some of these things easier for me. And so I got this dish rack and what I started doing was whenever I had a dirty dish, I would stick it on the dish rack dirty. But what happened was at the end of the night, when I would go to my sink, not only could I use my sink all day, but I'm looking at this very organized dish rack where it's like, plate, plate, plate, plate. Oh, this is all organized. Oh, it would take me just a few minutes to load this up into the dishwasher and it was just smoother, it was easier. I felt less resistance, less procrastination, less avoidance. And that became like a life changer for me when it came to dishes.

[Marielle Segarra]

Coming up, we'll talk about laundry and how to make it a less overwhelming chore.

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[Casey Davis]

There have been some fantastic movies released this year, and we know you can't see them all. So we're recommending some great films that might have flown under the radar to add to your watch list. Listen to Pop Culture Happy Hour via

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[Marielle Segarra]

Casey, let's talk laundry. There are often in a given room, I feel various types of laundry. Like there's cle, but not in the drawer. There's dirty, definitely dirty. Not going to wear it again. And then there's somewhere in between, you know, maybe I'll wear it again. But maybe it's not clean enough to go back in the drawer. What do you do when you walk around and you see all this stuff?

[Casey Davis]

So I'll tell you what I do, because I am all about simplifying things for my brain. So I've got ADHD that presents some problems with executive functioning. And one of those things is, like, too many decisions, too many steps, too many. Like, my. My brain goes into gridlock really easily. So here's what I do. I don't have all those categories, and I'm not saying that I don't, but, like, I don't. I just. If it's on the floor, it's going into the hamper and it's getting washed. I don't care if I wear it once, I don't care if I wear a thousand times. I don't care if I didn't wear it at all. I just thought I was going to. And I brought it into the living room and set it on a chair. I have to. In my mind, things have to be one step. And the step is if it's not hung up, it's going into the washers, getting washed again. And that really simplifies things for me.

[Marielle Segarra]

Got it? Yeah. So it sounds like in general, like, that might work for some folks, or maybe some folks want to, like, pick things out, but maybe in the triage method, they walk around the room, they collect the laundry in a basket, probably. Yeah. And then they put it in the corner for now.

[Casey Davis]

Yeah.

[Marielle Segarra]

And they move on to things that have a place. And. And this one seems pretty straightforward, like put the stuff in the place. Right. Do you do that right away?

[Casey Davis]

Yeah, yeah. And sometimes. So it depends. Like, the house that I used to live at, we had. So our living room, dining room, which we were using as a playroom, and our kitchen were all in one floor. Floor. And that's where we did almost all of our living. And so, you know, I didn't. If I. If something belonged in the kitchen, it was three steps to get to the kitchen. Right, Right. So. And now I live in a house that the layout's a little differently. So I'm not going to walk all the way across the house for something. Right. I'm going to put it in a little basket of. Of where it goes.

[Marielle Segarra]

Okay. And then last one is things that don't have a place. What do you do with those in the moment? Do you just kind of pile them up or do you find a place for them? Like, at this point, you still haven't thrown away Your trash. You haven't put the laundry in the laundry room. You haven't done the dishes. So, like, yeah, what are we doing with this stuff that doesn't have a place?

[Casey Davis]

This is always sort of my check in moment where I kind of check in with myself and I go, okay, how we feeling? What else is on the agenda today? How motivated are we? What's our body feeling like? What's our concentration level? Because sometimes I just put it aside in a basket and have to do other things. Go, you know, throw the trash away. But if I'm really kind of feeling like, no, I want to tackle this, I want to get this done, then I will sort of look inside and you have to make some decisions. So sometimes the easiest thing is to go, okay, sometimes things don't have a place because, like, you don't need that thing. Is there anything I can purge or donate or get rid of? And then I go, okay, is there anything in here that kind of, like, has cousins or close friends? And what I mean by that, you know, is if I have a pair of scissors and I don't really have a place where these specific scissors go, was there a place in my house where I'm keeping similar items? Like, do I have a drawer where I keep my box cutters? Because I could just add the scissors to that.

[Marielle Segarra]

If you're coming to the end of the five things and, like, you've checked in with yourself and you're like, all right, I. I either have the energy for this or I don't. So maybe you. Maybe you pile up the things that don't have a place in the corner. If you don't have the energy and then you're looking at the five things that you've collected, you throw away the trash, right?

[Casey Davis]

Yep.

[Marielle Segarra]

You bring the laundry to, like, your washing machine. Or if you. If you do your laundry at a laundromat, maybe you just, like, put it by your door or something. Yeah, maybe you do the dishes.

[Casey Davis]

I almost never save them for later. I almost never do. That's always the thing that I leave. And people are different, right? Like, some people, they really need to do the thing they dread the most first, and then they kind of feel free, like, ugh, now, now, I'm not dreading this. I'm the opposite. If I know that I have permission to not touch those dishes, I will do everything else in my house.

[Marielle Segarra]

You talk in the book about care tasks as a potential kindness to your future self. Like, that's one more reason to do them. If it's the evening and you're like, you know what? I don't really feel like doing these dishes right now, but I know in the morning it would be really great to have an empty sink. So I'm gonna do something to make that happen.

[Casey Davis]

I think so often we clean reactively, as if having to clean our space is a punishment for having lived in it. You know, it was great to have that dinner party, but, ugh, now I have all these dishes. All right, I, you know, I did a project, but now I have to clean up after myself. I want to flip that. Instead of thinking that care tasks are always cleaning up after ourselves, I want to start thinking of them as forward facing tasks. You know, I'm going to clean for myself. I'm going to put two dishes into the dishwasher because it would be a real kindness to morning me to be able to just have a clean dish to eat off of in the morning. I want to put my slippers next to my bed at night because I have tile floors and my feet are cold in the morning. And what a kindness it would be to myself to be able to wake up and put those slippers on before having to walk across the tile. And when you start doing things out of kindness, things start to change. And sometimes I say, I'm not gonna even touch these dishes because I deserve rest. And I do that out of kindness too. I'm gonna go let myself lay down on the couch.

[Marielle Segarra]

I'm gonna put some of this stuff into action in my life. Seriously. It's one of those things that, like, shifts your perspective.

[Casey Davis]

Well, when you do, just remember that there's no way to fail at this. You do it and it makes your life better. And then maybe you fall off or you don't do it, and then you go, oh, yeah, let me.

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I want to.

[Casey Davis]

I want to go pick that tool up again.

[Marielle Segarra]

Are you, like, hearing the voice in my head or something?

[Casey Davis]

Like, I have the same voice. That's how I know.

[Marielle Segarra]

Okay, time for a recap. You don't exist to serve your space. It exists to serve you. With that in mind, do your housework and self care in ways that make sense for your brain and your body in general. If you're doing the five things method, go through all the steps before you put away the trash or do the laundry or the dishes. And if you find yourself struggling to do a care task, think about why it's hard for you. Are there changes you could make, ways you could do it differently that might make things easier? Lastly, remember that a messy house is not a moral failure. The dishes aren't going to come alive and say judgmental things to you or make you a 10 course meal. You've been watching too many Disney movies. That's our show. By the way, do you love Life Kit? Then why not hang out with us on the NPR app? It's the best way to catch every episode, and if you turn on notifications, we'll let you know the second a new conversation drops. Download the NPR app and let's keep talking. This episode of Life Kit was produced by Mia Venkat. Our digital editor is Malika Garib and our visuals editor is CJ Ricolon. Meghan Cain is our senior supervising editor and Lauren Gonzalez is our executive producer. Our production team also includes Andy Taegel, Claire Marie Schneider, Margaret Serino and Sylvie Douglas. Engineering support comes from Jimmy Keeley. I'm Marielle Segarra. Thanks for listening.

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