Raj Punjabi Johnson (2:28)

Today we are talking to Marielle Segarra, the host of NPR's Life Kit.

Noah Michelson (2:33)

Raj, I love Life Kit. I never thought we'd have this like worlds colliding where two advice shows would come together.

Raj Punjabi Johnson (2:39)

It's going to be magical.

Noah Michelson (2:40)

Yeah, let's get into it. Marielle, thank you for being Here. We're so excited to chat with you.

Marielle Segarra (2:46)

Yeah, thanks for having me.

Noah Michelson (2:47)

It's. It's. I guess not that often that, like, three advice givers, getters all get in a room together. So we thought it'd just be fun to sort of say, like, how do we do this? Why do we do this? What is. What are our lives like?

Raj Punjabi Johnson (2:59)

Yeah.

Noah Michelson (2:59)

And I guess the question we can start with is, you know, as a professional advice giver or someone who facilitates that, what's the piece? The best piece of advice that you've gotten in your life?

Marielle Segarra (3:11)

Yeah, I think I get a lot of really good advice from my dad. He gives advice on a range of things, and there are these pearls of wisdom that come out at just the right moment. So I remember him saying to me after a bad breakup once, this is not. He's not the guy. He's just a guy. Love that, you know? And he also told me that I just needed to change the channel in my head, like, turn off this guy's channel and turn in. Tune into something else. That was so. It was so right, you know? And in that moment, you can't always feel that you're deep, deep in it. He also told me that, you know when you have, like, jars of tomato sauce and there's a bit of the sauce that gets on the lid.

Noah Michelson (4:02)

Yes.

Marielle Segarra (4:03)

He was like, if you want the jar to last longer and not get moldy, clean off that sauce from the lid, because that seems to be the first spot that gets moldy. This is not scientifically proven, but it does seem to be true. Yeah.

Noah Michelson (4:16)

I love that, though, from, like, high and low, like, the whole spectrum of, like, from men, what to do with men, to, like, what to do with your tomato sauce jar.

Marielle Segarra (4:24)

Yeah.

Noah Michelson (4:25)

That's really sweet. Raj, what about you? Best advice you've gotten?

Raj Punjabi Johnson (4:28)

Oh, I think on. On the show, on our podcast, a lot people encourage us to not judge ourselves.

Noah Michelson (4:37)

Yeah.

Raj Punjabi Johnson (4:37)

And be gentle with ourselves. That's my favorite advice. And it keeps coming up. It's a motif. Just, you know, whatever we're talking about, whether it's like, cholesterol and heart health or, like, a breakup or whatever, it's like, take a beat and just stop judging yourself. And I judge myself so much. I feel like we all do. Yeah. So that feels really good.

Noah Michelson (4:57)

Do you feel like you're judging yourself less since doing the show?

Raj Punjabi Johnson (4:59)

Oh, yeah. I mean, I. I also have always felt that way, but it's hard to put into practice. I always say that to my friends. I'm like, oh, My God. Gentle, please. This is my best friend you're talking about. But we forget to do that for ourselves.

Noah Michelson (5:11)

For sure.

Raj Punjabi Johnson (5:11)

Yeah.

Noah Michelson (5:12)

My best advice is definitely from two women in my life. First, my mom. She always said, before you send an email or you make a big decision, sleep on it. And I was like that. I love to, like, fire something off, you know, and just.

Raj Punjabi Johnson (5:24)

Yeah.

Noah Michelson (5:26)

Just the passion inside of me is like, I want to get on this immediately. And she's like, just wait. You can do it in 12 hours. And that has saved me so many times.

Marielle Segarra (5:34)

Yeah.

Raj Punjabi Johnson (5:34)

Do you find it challenging to wait, though?

Noah Michelson (5:36)

I do, but I'm getting better.

Raj Punjabi Johnson (5:38)

Okay.

Noah Michelson (5:38)

The more you practice, it's kind of.

Raj Punjabi Johnson (5:40)

Look at. It's cool to look at your, like, former self, maybe like, even six months ago, and be like, I'm doing this in a way that serves me more.

Marielle Segarra (5:46)

Yeah, yeah, yeah. You can also take a walk. That sounds. Or take a bath. It sounds so cliche. But there's a reason that in every movie that they say, take a walk when the person is, like, freaking out.

Noah Michelson (5:59)

It's so true. It gets you into your body. Same thing with taking a shower or a bath is like, get out of your head. Get into your body. Take a second.

Raj Punjabi Johnson (6:07)

I think a lot of therapists recommend that for people experiencing anxiety, too. Just like a temperature change or, like a change of scenery or whatever it is.

Marielle Segarra (6:16)

And suck on a sour candy. Yes. Put ice on your face or on your neck. Yes. Yeah, yeah.

Raj Punjabi Johnson (6:23)

Kind of magical, as we've heard, too.

Noah Michelson (6:25)

Play Tetris.

Raj Punjabi Johnson (6:26)

Oh, I don't know that one.

Noah Michelson (6:27)

Yeah, you do, because you were in the episode when we learned about it from Dr. Schaefer. If you're having a panic attack or you're dealing with heavy emotions, whatever part of your brain that you use to play Tetris sort of, like, dismantles the panic, which I thought was so interesting.

Marielle Segarra (6:44)

I wonder if it has to do with problem solving.

Raj Punjabi Johnson (6:46)

It has to. Yeah. It's like a different problem solving, low stakes.

Noah Michelson (6:49)

Yeah.

Raj Punjabi Johnson (6:50)

Yeah. I mean, the fact that I didn't remember that means I have a lot of advice, like, crammed well.

Noah Michelson (6:55)

We've all been doing this long time, you know, which I think is kind of an exciting thing to look back and realize, me too. The other one I'm gonna say, too, is my old therapist, Gail. When I was 21 and I had just gotten dumped, and I was, like, going through it, and I would catastrophize, and she would say, what's the worst thing that's going to Happen if you do that thing or if that thing happens. And I'd be like, I know it's not that big of a deal. And she'd say, no, I actually want you to name it.

Marielle Segarra (7:21)

Yeah.

Noah Michelson (7:22)

And once I did, she's like, okay, you're not going to die. Like, you would get through that even if it was terrible. And so now I still do that to this day. When I'm really anxious about something, I think, what is the worst possible thing? And I work backwards from it, and it really helps me.

Marielle Segarra (7:38)

So I want to. I've thought about this before.

Noah Michelson (7:40)

Yeah.

Marielle Segarra (7:41)

In mo, there were moments when someone said, what's the worst thing that could happen? And the worst thing that could happen was really bad. Like, you know, like, it could be. The worst thing that could happen is that you die.

Noah Michelson (7:51)

Yes.

Marielle Segarra (7:51)

But even that as an exercise can be useful because when you actually face your own mortality, you're like, oh, okay, I. It's probably not gonna be that bad. But if it is, I have no control over it.

Noah Michelson (8:04)

Yep.

Marielle Segarra (8:04)

So.

Noah Michelson (8:05)

And if I die, then I'm done. That's what I always say, too. If I die, I'm done. Then I won't be worried about it either. You know, that's kind of morbid, but I do feel a release and a liberation in that.

Raj Punjabi Johnson (8:15)

There is something about that. Like, I have airplane anxiety sometimes, like, turbulence anxiety. And that thing about, like, what's the worst that could happen? I. Sometimes also, the reality hits me that, like, I have a lot of love in my life. I've done a lot of things and haven't led the worst life. I haven't. Oh, 23 regrets that I'm sitting on either.

Noah Michelson (8:36)

Right.

Raj Punjabi Johnson (8:37)

So, yeah, mortality. That's crazy.

Marielle Segarra (8:38)

I mean, this is getting very deep very quickly, but it's like a bar conversation. It's like, yeah, are we drunk right now? But no. I thought about this when I was diagnosed with cancer in the end of 2023, and then I went through treatment in 2024. And a lot of people, when they are diagnosed as. Especially if there's. Because there's a moment where you're still waiting for all your scans and tests and biopsies to come back, and you don't know how serious it is. It hasn't been staged yet. And you really are confronting, like, what am I thinking about dying in the next six months, 10 years, or normal, or the. Expect the hopeful when I'm 90? A lot of people, when they're faced with that, they think, oh, my God, I have to make all these changes in my life, I didn't feel that way.

Raj Punjabi Johnson (9:33)

That sounded really good.

Marielle Segarra (9:36)

I was like, I show people and tell people that I love them. I treat people with care and respect. I'm doing work that's meaningful to me. I have a lot of family and friends and community. I don't know. I'm not happy all the time, but nobody is. That's not a reasonable expectation. I feel like I'm living a meaningful,

Raj Punjabi Johnson (9:55)

joyful life that's kind of magical.

Noah Michelson (9:58)

It's a gift in that moment to have some perspective about what your life is, you know? Yeah. That's intense.

Raj Punjabi Johnson (10:05)

And I know you've talked about your experience on the podcast.

Marielle Segarra (10:08)

Yeah.

Raj Punjabi Johnson (10:09)

And I'm. I'm interested in knowing because we all talk to a lot of experts, and we are kind of better versed at some topics than the other. What do you, Marielle, consider yourself an expert in?

Marielle Segarra (10:18)

To a certain extent, I have some expertise in having had cancer and being in going through treatment and being a part of, like, being in the hospital and having to deal with the healthcare system and the massive bureaucracy that is the healthcare system. And it doesn't make sense a lot of the time. And I had some experience with that before. But then when you're going to a lot of appointments, you end up bumping up against some of the most ridiculous things. And there were many moments where I felt like profit was more important than patience. So there's that aspect of it. And just dealing with all the red tape of health insurance, I feel like

Noah Michelson (11:05)

I'm not really an expert in anything.

Raj Punjabi Johnson (11:07)

I don't either. I was thinking about that, too. I think mine's more existential. Mine's like, I feel like I'm an expert. I think I know a lot about therapy because I've been to a lot of therapy. So, like, I'm familiar with what all the talk means. I love psychology, et cetera. And, you know, I feel very comfortable in, like, talking about therapy. So not an expert, but I feel comfortable there. Where do you feel comfortable?

Noah Michelson (11:30)

And I mean, I've been an editor and a writer for almost 20 years, so I feel like storytelling is something I'm really good at. I'm really good at zooming out and seeing the big picture, and I really enjoy that. So someone will come to me, even. Even Benji. He's my partner. He's a reporter. And he'll say, you know, I'm writing this thing. And I'll say, okay, but did you think about this part of it?

Marielle Segarra (11:50)

Right.

Noah Michelson (11:50)

I feel like I'm Often, like, on the space station three miles up from the story. And I can see the whole thing.

Marielle Segarra (11:57)

Yeah.

Noah Michelson (11:57)

And I find that really, really enjoyable.

Raj Punjabi Johnson (12:00)

I just have to say one more thing, just from, like, being around Noah. Noah is an expert in people, in humans. Like, I've seen him communicate with people in the, like, everyone he's ever communicated with. Like, in a very tactful, diplomatic way that's very sweet, gentle, and kind. Sometimes, like, we get interesting emails, like, for the both of us, and I'm like, are you effing kidding me? And Noah writes back this, like, thoughtful, balanced, unbothered email.

Noah Michelson (12:27)

Yeah.

Raj Punjabi Johnson (12:27)

And I'm just like, oh, I was about to curse this dude out.

Noah Michelson (12:31)

That's because I take a beat. That's what my mom told me. I probably want to curse him out, too. But I was like, let's just wait a second and see what my real feelings are.

Raj Punjabi Johnson (12:38)

Well adjusted.

Noah Michelson (12:39)

I would love to know more about life Kit, and how you guys choose what topics to do. Like, what's that process like?

Marielle Segarra (12:46)

Yeah, a lot of it. And y' all may do this as well. It comes from your own life. Right. You're just. You're walking through the world and realize that you don't actually fully understand this thing. When we have our pitch meetings, a lot of episode ideas come from either from me, our showrunner, our producers, our reporter. Everybody sort of tunes into what's going on in their lives, I think, and that inspires some of their questions. We also get. We get a lot of book pitches, so we will go through those and sort of look especially for books that have takeaways that are clear in them, because sometimes there can be a book that has really interesting research, but it's more defining the problem than it is like coming up with a solution or even researching a solution. We also do episodes where we have reporters from our newsroom come in, so whatever slice they're covering. Yeah. Like, our reporter, Will Stone. He covers. He's a health correspondent for npr, and he just did a whole newsletter for us on strength training. And also, like, we had him on the show to talk about it and just, like, myths about strength training, which were really useful and surprising to me, too. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Noah Michelson (14:10)

I think we're similar.

Raj Punjabi Johnson (14:11)

Yeah.

Noah Michelson (14:12)

In how we choose it is a lot of, like, what we are dealing with. I think the trick for us, which. And I love this. We were talking about this earlier, before we came on the air. You guys can do sort of, like, more specific or little chunks, because sometimes you just do 15 minutes and Raj and I usually talk for at least 35, 40. So we want a topic that feels big enough that we can really spend some time on it, but not so big that we can't get everything or we can't get into it. Sometimes I think we think some things feel too specific.

Raj Punjabi Johnson (14:41)

Yeah.

Noah Michelson (14:42)

Like, we would love to do an episode on weddings for say. But it's like, weddings are so different, depending on your budget, depending on your culture, depending on what you want. So, like, how do you give people advice about weddings when it could be so wildly different? We haven't cracked that one yet.

Marielle Segarra (14:59)

Yeah.

Raj Punjabi Johnson (15:00)

There are some topics where I'm like, I don't even know how we're gonna approach this because it would be like, four episodes.

Noah Michelson (15:04)

Yeah.

Raj Punjabi Johnson (15:05)

But I do think we also think a lot about what would feel very universal. And there are. At first, I was like, oh, no. We're also. We all have, like, different cultural perspectives. No, there are certain things that especially, like, we had an episode on laundry, like, full episode. It was one of our most popular ones.

Noah Michelson (15:25)

Yeah.

Raj Punjabi Johnson (15:26)

Everyone is thinking about this and, like, it's very universally appealing and it's kind of cool to get into that mindset. Like, what are we all kind of struggling with?

Noah Michelson (15:35)

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Marielle Segarra (15:36)

The day to day stuff. I think those broad episodes that could appeal to a lot of people tend to do, well, anything on finance or health and then life skills, like laundry. Like you said, weddings is a certain subset of people sometimes. I mean, I know we've done some coverage on weddings, maybe not recently, but it can help to try to take a slice, I think. What about weddings? Like, is it. Or even think of a slice of what stage are you at in the process? Like, are you deciding whether you want to have a wedding at all? Are you, you know, just starting to plan the wedding? Is it the day before your wedding? And you're like, how do I actually have a good wedding day? You know? Or like, how do you set yourself up to have a good wedding day?

Noah Michelson (16:21)

Yeah.

Marielle Segarra (16:21)

What kind of work do you put into it? Or maybe it's thinking about, like, the scope of the wedding. Because maybe for you, like, it's. To have a good wedding day, it can't be some massive thing. Some. Some performance, essentially.

Noah Michelson (16:36)

Right.

Marielle Segarra (16:38)

Or it could be like, if you're. I could see you doing an episode about, like, deciding what kind of wedding you want. And part of that is also communicating with your family and setting expectations and saying, like, I know that this may be disappointing to you, but this is what we're deciding to Do.

Noah Michelson (16:58)

It's so true. Benji and I just got engaged, and we're planning our wedding right now. And I've realized more and more that, like, the wedding's not actually about you, or often it isn't. It's about all these other people's expectations of what they want.

Marielle Segarra (17:11)

Yeah.

Noah Michelson (17:11)

Especially if you have someone else paying for it. If your parents are paying for it, what do they want? You know what I mean? What does grandma want? Like, there's so much to take into it. I will say Benji and I are not considering anyone else's feelings. We're literally having the party that we want to have.

Raj Punjabi Johnson (17:25)

But I will say, first of all, a cool thing you can do is get married in a non or, like, later. I got married when I was, like, 40, and no one really had a say. People are just excited that I was going to do it. They're like, finally, oh, my God, do whatever you want. So it became absolutely about me and my partner. I also have to say, I love this slice kind of thing because there's also, like, being a wedding. A good wedding guest. There's, like, gifting, like, I think there's, like, several layers to that wedding cake, if you will. And I. I think we can have whole episodes on that.

Noah Michelson (17:59)

I think the thing that we struggle with is that we only have one episode a week.

Marielle Segarra (18:03)

Yeah.

Noah Michelson (18:03)

And so if we have a really sort of a slice that a lot of people just aren't gonna care about.

Marielle Segarra (18:08)

Right.

Noah Michelson (18:08)

They're gonna dip out, you know, and. And that's something we worried about more when we first started. I think we now, thankfully, have a lot of listeners who just want to hear about a topic, even if they don't care that much. They're just like, oh, maybe I'll learn something. And that's exciting, too. But it's sort of like an algorithm thing. It's like, how do we figure out what people really want to hear?

Marielle Segarra (18:28)

Yeah, no, that's a good point, because we have three episodes a week.

Noah Michelson (18:31)

Yeah. I'm so jealous of that.

Marielle Segarra (18:34)

We have more room to give a buffet, as Megan puts it, sometimes. Our showrunner, and that seems to work really well for us. We also have the radio show, which is a version of one of the episodes from the week. And we have our. Like, our Instagram, and we do a lot of Instagram videos, and we have our newsletter. So everything kind of like, we can use little pieces from different things or even, like, we have. We do versions of an episode for All Things Considered or Morning Edition. And that'll Be like a three or four minute version of it.

Noah Michelson (19:09)

That's so smart, though.

Raj Punjabi Johnson (19:10)

I love that I have a follow up with that one. With all the different mediums, do you feel like you have a different audience in mind? Like, how do you think about who are you talking to in life? Kit especially? I think that's something that we think about too.

Noah Michelson (19:23)

Yeah.

Marielle Segarra (19:24)

Yes, I think we do have a different audience, especially for radio. For traditional radio broadcast is. Tends to skew a little bit older. And also it's a more general audience in the sense that they're not necessarily seeking you out. They're turning on their radio. Maybe when they're in the car, maybe when they first wake up. That's part of their routine. And there are some shows that radio listeners will see. Like, they're like, oh, I always listen to Brian Lehrer in the morning or whatever. But very often it'll be people who are just listening to npr. And so you have to, I think, give more context and also choose topics for the radio show or for those like four minute pieces. That would apply to a quite broad audience. Whereas on the podcast, you can go a little more narrow because people are coming to you and they can read the headline and say, yeah, interested, not interested. You know, and they'll. If they're not interested in an episode, they might listen still because they just like the vibe. Or they are like, oh, well, it's not really for me, but my sister's going through something like this. Or they might skip that one and then. And then listen to the next one. I think for our audience in general, for the Life Kit audience, I would say that we're going for people who are sort of striving.

Raj Punjabi Johnson (20:48)

They.

Marielle Segarra (20:48)

They want to make their lives better. They want to kind of. It's. I mean, it's similar to like the title of your show. Am I Doing it Wrong? Like, how do I do it right? You know, or how do I just feel better? How do I. How do I get to the next step in my life? Maybe I'm thinking about, like, am I gonna try to buy property or am I gonna pay off my student loans? Or how can I kind of get my finances in order? Or I want to be healthier. I want to make sure I'm on top of my screenings for whatever it is, like colon cancer or breast cancer, or like, I want to start a new habit. Like people who are trying to do something. Yeah, I find that that's a lot of our audience.

Raj Punjabi Johnson (21:29)

You know, my friend Shia uses this word a lot and ease Where I think it's. It's not the first thing I go to, but it's exactly what I'm looking for more in life. And I don't mean ease as in, like, I get to sit back and do nothing. I mean ease as in less struggle. So when I'm trying to learn about, you know, doing my lipids labs on time and like, maybe being better financially and like, doing my taxes earlier and being better, like what you're talking about, it's to bring more ease in my life.

Marielle Segarra (21:59)

Right.

Raj Punjabi Johnson (21:59)

Like, I want less struggle. Some mornings I wake up, I'm like, oh, my God, I have so many things to do and I'm late to all of them. Yeah, I need less of that.

Noah Michelson (22:06)

Yeah.

Raj Punjabi Johnson (22:06)

Like, who wants that to happen to their blood pressure? Like, no, it's just stressful.

Noah Michelson (22:11)

We actually get a lot of grief from people about the name of the show. And they say, you know, I, I feel like, are like telling us that we're doing everything wrong. And like, if you actually listen to the show, that's sort of the opposite of that. Like, the show is sort of a provocative title. But what you find out when you listen to the show is that Raj and I are doing everything wrong. And we just, like you said, we want to do it a little bit better.

Raj Punjabi Johnson (22:32)

Yeah, but we're like, joyful and non judgmental about it.

Noah Michelson (22:36)

Exactly. And so, like, I think that is the thing is that, like, these shows are supposed to help people not be as anxious about life.

Marielle Segarra (22:42)

Yeah.

Noah Michelson (22:43)

You know, and I loved you just had an episode with Prue Leith from Bake off that you reran. And I was listening, listening to it today, and she was talking about her new cookbook and how it's called something like, life is too short to stuff a mushroom.

Marielle Segarra (22:55)

Yeah, yeah.

Noah Michelson (22:56)

And she was saying, you know, like, yeah, like, spend your time worrying about things that really matter. And I think these kind of shows that we do and I feel really lucky to get to be part of it, is like, we are telling people, like, here are some ways just to make life a little easier. And you can pick one or two and maybe try it. And if you do, things could be better. And if you don't, that's fine too.

Marielle Segarra (23:16)

Yeah. I mean, ultimately there's not someone. There's no, like, permanent record, you know, there's no report card that someone's keeping track of everything you do. These changes that you make are just for yourself, really, or your family, you and your family. Like, and the idea of making your life easier, I like that A lot. Because it's sort of like sometimes I have things in my house that have just been a certain way for so long that I don't think about it. And then you can make one minor design change and you're like, oh, that's so much easier.

Raj Punjabi Johnson (23:49)

Your life changes.

Marielle Segarra (23:50)

Your whole life changes. Yeah, like getting a different laundry basket or getting like, oh, now that I. This is actually kind of the reverse of it. I have to figure out a solution. But I installed a new bathroom sink. And what's it called?

Raj Punjabi Johnson (24:06)

The vanity.

Marielle Segarra (24:07)

Vanity. Underneath it. Is that like, you know, the drawer thing underneath it. And also we redid the tile in the bathroom, so now it's a little bit higher. And then the. The mirror on the wall is in the same place. So the. The mirror that swings. The door swings open, hits the soap dispenser and knocks it over every time. So I have to get a different soap dispenser because this is just like, not tenable, you know?

Raj Punjabi Johnson (24:34)

But guess what? That's your morning routine. And I feel like it. It shapes your whole day when, like,

Noah Michelson (24:39)

things that is run amok. That is part of life.

Marielle Segarra (24:42)

Yeah. All those little things, little tweaks that you can make that. It's like, oh, I actually can change my life, even in these small ways. And it changes my. My feeling of, am I in chaos or am I. Do I kind of have this?

Raj Punjabi Johnson (24:56)

That's the struggle I'm talking about. I want. I just want to feel less mental chaos.

Noah Michelson (25:01)

Well, that makes me wonder for you too. What is. Are some things that you've learned from hosting the show. Your shows.

Marielle Segarra (25:08)

Yeah.

Noah Michelson (25:09)

That you've actually incorporated into your own life? You know what. What is. What is some of the advice that you've gotten in real time and you're like, actually, that made my own life better.

Marielle Segarra (25:17)

So many things.

Noah Michelson (25:18)

Yeah.

Marielle Segarra (25:19)

Well, one thing that I've actually been doing is I got an alarm clock and I moved my phone out of my room.

Noah Michelson (25:29)

So many people told us to do that. I can't do it. I'm so jealous of you.

Marielle Segarra (25:33)

I got an analog alarm clock. It does not connect to the Internet. So it's great. Like, it makes me really happy that I finally was able to do this. I kept scrolling through my phone every morning, and even when I would block the apps like Instagram or whatever, I still would find stuff to look at on the phone. You know the weather app?

Noah Michelson (25:53)

Yeah. You're deep dive in the weather.

Marielle Segarra (25:55)

Just ridiculous. Or looking at old photos or whatever. And it's like, I don't want the first thing I do to be looking at this device. So we have done a lot of episodes around, you know, phone health. Like, basically how to. How to have some separation from your phone and use it as a tool rather than letting it use you. Also, there's one there. It's everything from like, like big picture emotional to the tiny little things. Like when you get another laundry tip. If you get blood stains on something, you can use hydrogen peroxide to remove them. And it works so well. Like, it just kind of disappears it instant. Apparently you can also try using cold water, but I kind of like the hydrogen peroxide. It makes it like bubble.

Noah Michelson (26:43)

Bubble.

Marielle Segarra (26:44)

Yeah. And it just works really well. Another is about moving, like, just first of all, that you don't have to do your exercise all in one chunk. You don't have to do your cardio all in like one 30 minute slot. You can do it throughout the day and just fit things in and tie them together with something else you're already doing. So you do calf raises when you brush your teeth. You know, yesterday as I was writing this episode, which is about investing diversification, and it was really thick. It was like, it's nutrient dense. And so every time I wrote, I finished writing a section of it, I would do 10 squats.

Noah Michelson (27:23)

I love that.

Marielle Segarra (27:24)

Yeah. And it helped me also get like, I don't know, it helped me think in a way.

Raj Punjabi Johnson (27:31)

Oh, we just had an episode with Dr. Wendy Suzuki on, you know, memory and exercise and brain health, and she was talking about that and it was so useful. Like, I love the idea of kind of like, like exercising throughout the day and yeah, your creativity and your like, mental acuity just like. Yeah, it's.

Marielle Segarra (27:47)

You get sharper.

Noah Michelson (27:48)

Yeah. The mind body link is real. And I think, yeah, the more you move your body, the more I find that too. When I'm trying to write something, I go on a walk and I write a lot of the piece I'm writing in my notes app on my phone because I need a little bit of distraction and my body's moving and Yeah, I think that's great. Raj, what are some of the things that you have learned that you have incorporated?

Raj Punjabi Johnson (28:10)

One that I am thinking about right now because we're talking about brain health. We had a brain health episode with Dr. Rita and I remember, you know, I bring up vices in our podcast a lot like smoking weed and drinking and things I do to like just regulate and self sedate. I'm sorry.

Noah Michelson (28:26)

Raj loves the martini. Yeah.

Raj Punjabi Johnson (28:28)

And Dr. Rita gave me permission to have my martini when I get. I do get, you know, lectured a lot, in a good way, as I should, about alcohol. But she was like, have the martini. Like, drink your drinks, but then for 48. After 48 hours, after, you have to, like, flush your life out, like water, like, vegetables and stuff. And, like, it was a very specific piece of advice, and you can take it if you want to. But it did make me think a lot about moderation and just balance in life. Like, I'm a yogi, and that goes with yoga a lot. Like, you know, being able to balance

Noah Michelson (28:59)

things, you know, we did get a very angry email, though, about that tip where they said, you're a doctor. How dare you say that we can drink. Like, drinking is so bad for you. And that's the other thing we love about our experts, I think, is that we. Our experts are pretty good about moderation, too. We don't want to be prescriptive. We don't want to be.

Raj Punjabi Johnson (29:16)

It's not realistic. Yeah, realistic People are going to do it. And also think about how we feel about authority. That's too. Like, we're just going to shut it off. Like, it feels judgy.

Noah Michelson (29:24)

Yeah.

Raj Punjabi Johnson (29:25)

What about you? So I feel like, so many good things, and you. You take good advice.

Noah Michelson (29:31)

We have this amazing guest named Jason Tetro. He's called the Germ Guy. He lives in Canada, and he's done a bunch of episodes with us about, like, just germs everywhere. One of the ones that just shocked me was the idea of a poo plume.

Raj Punjabi Johnson (29:44)

Oh, yeah.

Noah Michelson (29:45)

So when you flush the toilet, if you don't shut the lid, poo is just flying up, up to 6ft in the air and landing everywhere. If your toothbrush is by the toilet, you know, there's probably poo on it.

Marielle Segarra (29:57)

So I do know that, like, I do keep my toothbrush in that little cabinet. That's very smart. But, like, what about when you're at the. At, you know, a restaurant and you're in the bathroom and it doesn't have a lid? We talked about this.

Noah Michelson (30:11)

Literally, he's like, flush it and run.

Raj Punjabi Johnson (30:14)

I do it.

Noah Michelson (30:15)

Get out of the stall. He's like, make sure you're ready to go.

Raj Punjabi Johnson (30:17)

I flush. I've said this on that podcast episode. I flush with my foot and I run like, yeah. I'm like, extra. There are some things that we care about, like, as individuals and some things we care less about. I'm really weird about the poo plume and the pee plume, and for the

Noah Michelson (30:30)

most part, the poo plume's not going to hurt you, you know.

Marielle Segarra (30:33)

Well, that's the thing. It's like, if it were, then people would be getting really sick all the time.

Noah Michelson (30:38)

But just in my head, once I heard that, I was like, I shut the. I shut the lid every single time. And I. And I run as well. So things like that.

Raj Punjabi Johnson (30:47)

I love a public bathroom sprinter. Like, that's who I am now.

Noah Michelson (30:50)

Yeah, another one too. We had an episode on, like, how to take care of your eyes. And I wear contacts. And she was like, do not ever sleep in your contacts. Never.

Raj Punjabi Johnson (30:59)

Or wear them in the shower.

Noah Michelson (31:01)

Or wear them in the shower. I still do that. I know, but that was. That seemed less dangerous. Maybe I'm just telling myself that. But she was like. I was like, if I'm, you know, away for a weekend and I forgot my solution to store my contacts, would you rather I slept in them or put them in tap water? She was like, I would rather that you just couldn't see for the weekend.

Raj Punjabi Johnson (31:19)

Yeah.

Noah Michelson (31:20)

Do not do either. And so like, that. I get a lot of wake up calls on this show because I do

Raj Punjabi Johnson (31:25)

appreciate the drama because I think I take things, like, I'm a little too lax about things. And when these experts who are. Are really, you know, experts in their field in every sense of the word, look into our eyes and tell us things. Like, I'm like, okay, maybe I should take this seriously.

Marielle Segarra (31:39)

Yeah, but okay, if you can't see, it depends how bad your eyesight is. But if you can't see for the weekend, like, you're gonna crash your car,

Noah Michelson (31:47)

you know, I mean, I hope you're not driving. No, you're right. There are always things. But she was just kind of saying, like, it's really bad to sleep in your contacts.

Marielle Segarra (31:54)

Yeah.

Noah Michelson (31:55)

And I think a lot of us haven't thought about that.

Marielle Segarra (31:57)

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Raj Punjabi Johnson (31:58)

I've started taking my glasses places because I took that very seriously.

Noah Michelson (32:01)

Are there topics or episod that are too personal? Is there anything that you wouldn't do?

Marielle Segarra (32:09)

I think we've had a hard time finding a way into talking about sex, even though it's a big part of life. Because I also do allow some of my personal life into the show and I try to be intentional about it so I will share something when it feels like it furthers the point or it might make people feel less alone or it just, like, helps explain something. But there are certain things that are off limits for me. I'm figuring out what those are, but really it's about, like, personal details. About my family, anything like that. And also about who my. My love life, you know?

Noah Michelson (32:52)

Yeah.

Marielle Segarra (32:52)

I can talk in the abstract about things like, oh, I went through a breakup, and my dad gave me this advice, but I'm not gonna say, you know, well, I'm dating this person right now, and blah, blah, blah, y. You know, and even the mention of dating sometimes in, like, even saying that I am someone who dates or, like, has dated or whatever, like, implies sex. And then so suddenly you feel like, I don't know. I came up as a reporter. Like, I wasn't used to sharing anything of myself. So I get it. It's. I feel like that also could open the door to you being seen in a sexual way. And sometimes that even when you haven't said anything about that part of your life, it's like, people can make weird comments. I shared this on another show, actually, but someone wrote a comment about how I say my last name, which is Segarra. It's a Puerto Rican last name. They said that it's over the top, and it sounds like I'm having an orgasm every time I say. And I was like, a rolled R. Sounds like an orgasm to you. Interesting.

Noah Michelson (34:00)

You know, that says a lot about you.

Marielle Segarra (34:02)

It says a lot about you. Yeah. But I felt like. Like you took something that's very sacred to me and made it sexual and then also turned me into a sex object. You know, like, in that moment, it's totally. Yeah, it's totally racist. Like, it's misogynistic. Yeah. It's all of the things like, yeah, it was just gross in a lot of ways. But things like that sometimes make me hesitate even more.

Raj Punjabi Johnson (34:29)

I hate that, though.

Marielle Segarra (34:30)

Yeah.

Noah Michelson (34:31)

But it's true. As a public figure, which we all are now just by default, and then as a woman who's a public figure, like, the stakes are higher, I think. And I don't blame you for even hesitating about that.

Marielle Segarra (34:44)

Yeah. Wanting to shield that part of myself. And in general, being with npr, there are some things that we, Especially on the radio, that you can't talk about. Even when we have episodes on. Like, we did an episode on constipation, and it's like, we had to. I don't think we've run it on the radio, but if you're doing it in a medical context, like, it's probably okay, but sometimes it can be a fine line, and you're like, okay, there. There's stuff that I think maybe we're a little more conservative about for that reason. But, yeah, I think And. And sex is just like. It's like, what are we doing? Like, what kind of tips are we gonna give people? You know, that's like a whole other podcast.

Noah Michelson (35:27)

Yeah.

Marielle Segarra (35:27)

Yeah.

Noah Michelson (35:28)

What about you? Stuff that is that you consider off limits.

Raj Punjabi Johnson (35:31)

I was thinking about, like, you share a lot of personal stuff, but in a really balanced way.

Noah Michelson (35:37)

I feel like I'm an overshadower.

Raj Punjabi Johnson (35:39)

I'm an oversharer, too. And I have to really think about what I'm saying, because when I'm sitting here sometimes, especially because, like, the wonderful people and producers I work with are, like, dope women. And I feel very comfortable with Noah. So I'm Kiki with my girlfriends.

Marielle Segarra (35:56)

Yeah.

Raj Punjabi Johnson (35:56)

And I. It can get out of control. I. I like a good laugh. And I have to be really. And it's about other people. Like, it's about my partner, it's about my family. Like, I don't want to give any details that they would feel violated by.

Marielle Segarra (36:08)

Yeah.

Raj Punjabi Johnson (36:08)

Because there's very little I could say about myself that. You know what? I'm a very open book, for better or worse.

Noah Michelson (36:14)

But you're right. You have to remember.

Marielle Segarra (36:16)

Yeah.

Noah Michelson (36:16)

There's other people and the platform you have and how many people are going to hear it and all that. That's important to consider.

Raj Punjabi Johnson (36:22)

Yeah.

Marielle Segarra (36:22)

You can forget that people listen, and it can feel like you're just having a really fun conversation. And there are things that I would be. I'm very open, one on one with people, even if I've just met them. Like, I'm. I can be same. Like, you know, I'm. I'm okay with talking about having had breast cancer, like, pretty quickly. Partly. I don't think it's something that we should stigmatize, you know, and I think that makes people feel less alone. But, yeah, I'm. And I did talk about that on the show, but there are things that I would, like, joke around with you guys. For instance, about, you know, off mic that I wouldn't. On mic because I'd just be like, that part of myself. I don't know who's gonna listen to this. You know, I'm sharing this now with anybody, basically. Yeah, exactly.

Raj Punjabi Johnson (37:08)

Noah, is there any subject you don't feel comfortable?

Noah Michelson (37:11)

I don't have anything. But I also came up. Up. You know, a lot of the work that I did before I started doing this is like, I wrote these crazy essays every week about the queer community, and it was like activism in a way. And, like, I was writing about being sexually assaulted. I was writing about my dad Dying of cancer. Like, I put so much of myself out in the world. But yeah, I don't think a lot of people do do that. I. And I.

Raj Punjabi Johnson (37:33)

No, it's not the norm.

Noah Michelson (37:34)

It's not the norm. And it. And like you were saying, a lot can come with that and people feel like they know you then people feel like they have a right to comment on your life then. And you have to decide, you know, how much you want to share. I think it's really important and I

Raj Punjabi Johnson (37:49)

think being intentional about it is protecting yourself. We had an episode of the podcast. It's the only one that I did not co host. It was on grief. For a number of reasons, I don't feel I could have talked about the subjects they were talking about grief related. I didn't feel safe. And Noah was so gentle about it and so was everyone else. And we had a wonderful colleague step in and it was such a great episode. So I couldn't have been my best self. And I think being like, this is me at 41, me at 25 would have powered through it and then probably had like a mentee be after and like called my therapist, like scream crying. So like, why? For what? You know, I want to give to the world what I can and then what I can't, I'm gonna ask someone else to do it.

Noah Michelson (38:32)

I love that.

Raj Punjabi Johnson (38:33)

Yeah.

Marielle Segarra (38:33)

Yeah, that's great. I'm glad you did that.

Raj Punjabi Johnson (38:36)

Thank you.

Marielle Segarra (38:37)

I feel much more myself, much more confident in myself as the years pass. And I actually another piece of advice that I got that I. That has stuck with me was from my therapist. It was like, you don't have to be nice all the time or nice to everyone. You know, what is even like, re examining what niceness is and how authentic it is. You know, that doesn't mean don't be kind or loving. It doesn't mean be like rude to people or mean. It just means like, you don't always have to put on this act like you're the nice girl when what's happening in this situation doesn't deserve niceness. You know, that has stuck with me and I've really put that into play in my life in the past, like five years.

Raj Punjabi Johnson (39:27)

That's beautiful. I want to also ask. We talked about things that we are not necessarily comfortable talking about. Are there any topics where you feel like are such an enigma that everyone wants to know about but you like, like haven't gotten great advice about it or you can't really find it? And I'm going to give you an example, like, we're going to do an episode on dreaming. There's some science behind it, but there's still a lot we don't know. So it's like there's a certain comfort to, like, figuring how to do it right. Some topics you actually can't do right or, like, get better at because we haven't nailed down enough information.

Noah Michelson (39:58)

Yeah, we did put on headaches, too. And we had the head of the Yale School of Medicine for headaches. And it blew our mind because we talked to him for like an hour. And at the end I was like, raj, I'm not sure that we learned how to do headaches better because we

Raj Punjabi Johnson (40:09)

did learn a lot.

Noah Michelson (40:10)

We learned a ton.

Raj Punjabi Johnson (40:11)

But not how to.

Noah Michelson (40:12)

But we didn't learn that much. It was actually practical advice because he was just like, we're still learning a lot and they're really complicated.

Marielle Segarra (40:18)

That is the challenge when you're. Especially in the medical field. There's just a lot that we don't know. And we assume that doctors know everything. And actually there's a lot that they just sort of shrug and say, well, we can't find the cause for your pain.

Raj Punjabi Johnson (40:36)

Terrifying.

Marielle Segarra (40:36)

Yeah, there's a lot where they're still researching. The further you get into it, the more confused you get sometimes. I think that sometimes when there is debate, like there, for instance, like when we did the breast cancer screening episode, there are different guidelines from different medical organizations for when women should start getting mammograms and also whether they should do breast self exams or like a physical breast exam in their doctor's office, whether those are useful or not. And it makes sense given their specialties. Right. Like the gynecological association is like, we see the benefit of doing these exams. We find breast cancer this way, especially for women who are not eligible for mammograms yet, which is happening more and more that women under 40 are getting breast cancer. That's. I was 34 when I was diagnosed and my doctor found it by feeling it on a. Just in a regular gynecolog exam. So they will say, no, you should keep doing them. And then like other medical groups that are. That are reputable will say, no, you don't need to do those. They're like, research shows that it doesn't generally increase the risks of or increase the chances of survival or whatever their reasons are. So in terms of giving advice on this thing, like, we had to pull back in that episode and say, okay, so there's disagreement here. Here's what's underneath the disagreement. Here's what these people say, here's what experts say. And then we talked to two oncologists, two breast oncologists who were like, we think generally you should start your mammograms at age 40, unless you have history history or like a genetic mutation. And you should get those physical exams done. Like, they're more conservative because they see young women coming in with breast cancer all the time. When there's something that, where there's still debate over it, reasonable debate, we try to explain what, what the debate is, what the debate is about. Not always. Like, sometimes it's so in the weeds and so unclear that you can't really do an episode about that topic. But if it's something that is affecting so many people, like headaches, it kind of feels like you need to do the episode and just explain what's out there.

Noah Michelson (42:57)

Exactly. And that's where we sort of landed. It was like, we maybe can't give you great advice on this, but like, let's talk about the landscape and why this might be happening to you. Or maybe you didn't know that this is what was happening to you. That feels useful to me as well.

Raj Punjabi Johnson (43:10)

And I love like showing respect to people in that way where like you said, you tell them what the experts are saying and kind of you're like, okay, you decide what you think you should do. Here's all the evidence. I mean, when it was time for Covid vaccines, like we, I learned a lot about the mRNA, you know, style of vaccine and stuff. And I made an educated decision and I love that I was given an. And to me it was a no brainer. But like it's. I jumped into the research and I love being offered information. It's empowering.

Noah Michelson (43:39)

And it goes to say, like, you're listening to a podcast. We are not doctors. And the doctors we have on are just specific doctors. Like, you should never be taking that kind of advice. Just from a podcast, I would say, you know, like, learn how to clean the grout in your tub, sure. But like something like that, like, get some different opinions, talk to your own doctor.

Marielle Segarra (44:02)

It's a starting point. It's a start, you know, and a reminder to go in and talk to your doctor and get these tests done. But yeah, we can't give medical advice in that way and we can't give financial advice in that way. We can't tell people, yeah, invest in these funds or whatever. No, we can generally explain to them what different kinds of investment funds, how they work and what it means, for instance, to diversify, like, to what a stock is, what a stock investment is, what a bond is, how the risk is different for those. Why you might want to have some investments in international stocks, not just US based stocks. And then they can take those building blocks and. And either talk to a financial advisor or build a financial portfolio on their own.

Noah Michelson (44:46)

Yeah, I love that. I think to end, I would love to know if you, either of you have an episode that you still want to do. Like, what's your dream episode that you haven't done yet? Like, I will say mine.

Marielle Segarra (44:57)

Yeah.

Noah Michelson (44:58)

We've been trying to do supplements for forever, and we're gonna do it, but we either get doctors who say when we try and book them as a guest, they say no one should be taking supplements because they should get all their vitamins from Whole Foods. Or it's more like influencer people who are like, let me sell you my supplement. Yeah, we really want someone in the middle. And my other one is my dream. I'm putting this out there in the universe.

Raj Punjabi Johnson (45:18)

Okay.

Noah Michelson (45:19)

I really want the Barefoot Contessa Ina Garten to come on and do baking with us. Like, am I baking wrong?

Raj Punjabi Johnson (45:26)

I love all of her videos, and she's the perfect person for that.

Noah Michelson (45:31)

So I know if you're listening, get in here.

Raj Punjabi Johnson (45:34)

Okay. I have mine. Do you have yours?

Marielle Segarra (45:36)

I have one, I think.

Raj Punjabi Johnson (45:37)

Yeah, go for it.

Marielle Segarra (45:39)

I've thought a lot about drinking water quality.

Noah Michelson (45:41)

Oh, yeah. Interesting.

Marielle Segarra (45:42)

Like how to get a good filter for your drinking water and how to know what's in your tap water. Because a lot of the time people just say, oh, yeah, the tap water here is great.

Raj Punjabi Johnson (45:55)

Yeah, New York.

Marielle Segarra (45:55)

Yeah, New York. And they might say that in other places too. Yeah. The tap water is fine. And you almost seem like when you go to somebody's house and you ask, like, do you have a filter? They. It can seem a little like you've got a tinfoil hat on, you know? But actually there is a lot of stuff in our drinking water, even once it's filtered.

Raj Punjabi Johnson (46:14)

Yeah.

Noah Michelson (46:15)

That.

Marielle Segarra (46:15)

That you'd want to filter out. That I want to filter out. And so. And I thought about that, like, after I got cancer as well. And a lot of the time, like, we just still don't understand the environmental causes of cancer. Like, of breast cancer specifically. We understand some of the lifestyle causes and the genetic causes, but there's a lot that's just sort of like maybe something in the environment caused it. And so that makes you say, okay, well, where are some places Where I can tighten up around that, you know, not that I'm sure that this is what caused it, but that this is one opportunity to maybe be healthier.

Noah Michelson (46:56)

Yeah, yeah.

Marielle Segarra (46:57)

Do better be exposed to fewer chemicals.

Noah Michelson (46:59)

Yeah, yeah.

Raj Punjabi Johnson (47:00)

And water is such a big one. Yeah, yeah, it's. Yeah, That's a really good one. So mine. I would love for us to do an episode on, like, self confidence or feeling beautiful, and I would want Rihanna to be our expert. Okay. So that's like, here's the thing. Hear me out. Like, I think, like, being sexy would be a really fun, like, subject because it's so broad. Like, what does that mean to you? Like, sometimes just to. To people, it's like h. Being really smart and having read a lot of books in that, like, book smart. And sometimes it's like, looking and feeling good and dressing well. And like, I feel like Rihanna is very confident.

Noah Michelson (47:36)

She is.

Raj Punjabi Johnson (47:36)

She's the queen of confidence.

Noah Michelson (47:37)

I don't know that she would give us great tips, though.

Raj Punjabi Johnson (47:39)

I feel like there would be a lot of good one liners that wouldn't make any sense to most people, but,

Noah Michelson (47:44)

like, we would enjoy it.

Marielle Segarra (47:46)

You just want to talk to Rihanna.

Noah Michelson (47:48)

Just wants to hang out with Rihanna. That's what it is.

Marielle Segarra (47:51)

I think you should get India Ari on. Oh, really good song video. Yeah. That's all about self love. And I'll take really.

Raj Punjabi Johnson (48:00)

I'll take anyone who. Who really has consistently shown us self love.

Marielle Segarra (48:05)

Yeah.

Raj Punjabi Johnson (48:05)

Not just, like, performatively, but you can feel it in their energy. But I do want. It doesn't have to be either one of these people. I want an episode in, like, how to really love on yourself. All the time. Yeah, all the time.

Noah Michelson (48:16)

All right, well, we're gonna make it happen then.

Raj Punjabi Johnson (48:18)

You calling Rihanna for me?

Noah Michelson (48:20)

Yeah. Let me DM her real quick. Exactly. Hey, Riri. Well, she's not busy making an album, so she can't. I mean, maybe she is, but hopefully she's making babies. This has been so good. Thank you for coming in and chatting with us and sort of going behind the scenes.

Marielle Segarra (48:38)

Yeah, it's really fun. I love it. It's nice to meet you both.

Raj Punjabi Johnson (48:41)

Yeah, same.

Noah Michelson (48:46)

Okay. Raj, I'm not gonna ask you if you've been giving advice wrong. Cause that's silly. But what did you think of today's episode?

Raj Punjabi Johnson (48:54)

I thought it was really fun. I felt very supported, and it's cool to see the kind of behind the scenes that happens because I think all three of us are really trying our best to be a vehicle for this advice yeah. And we're not really giving it. We're just kind of like, here's the experts. And then kind of like chiming in as far as what we know. I love that. I like to give our listeners just, like, a little more intel about that.

Noah Michelson (49:18)

That's the funny thing. When we. Before we start recording and we meet the expert, we always say to them, the show is kind of like three friends hanging out and two of us are dummies and the third person is an expert, and they're lovingly schooling us. And so, yeah, I feel like you and I were the conduit for the advice, but we aren't really giving it. Although sometimes we do. We've lived a lot of life.

Raj Punjabi Johnson (49:42)

I know.

Noah Michelson (49:42)

And we have some things to say, too, but it was great to have another person who does this for a living and hear what their life is like working at npr. It's different than what we do. And I just loved sort of going behind the scenes and taking a second to do that, so.

Raj Punjabi Johnson (49:58)

Absolutely. And it's. It's nice to know that we see our listeners as, like, kind of family, too, and we're trying to do the best for them and for us.

Noah Michelson (50:06)

It feels a little corny, I know, but we really mean it.

Raj Punjabi Johnson (50:09)

I am corny. Yeah. I'm very comfortable with it.

Noah Michelson (50:11)

Absolutely.

Raj Punjabi Johnson (50:12)

She cute, too, though.

Noah Michelson (50:13)

She's real cute. Anyway, until next time, as long as there are things to get wrong, we're gonna be right here to help you do embarrassment.

Raj Punjabi Johnson (50:21)

I love y'.

Marielle Segarra (50:21)

All.

Raj Punjabi Johnson (50:24)

Am I Doing it Wrong? Is a co production between HuffPost and Acast.

Noah Michelson (50:27)

Our producers are Eve Bishop, Carmen Borca Carrillo, and Malia Agudelo.

Raj Punjabi Johnson (50:32)

Our executive producers are Jenny Kaplan and Emily Rutter.

Noah Michelson (50:35)

Special thanks to HuffPost's head of audience, Abby Williams.

Raj Punjabi Johnson (50:38)

Head of video, Will Took, as well

Noah Michelson (50:40)

as Kate Palmer, Marta Rodriguez and Terry d'. Angelo.

Raj Punjabi Johnson (50:43)

And we're your hosts, Raj Punjabi Johnson and Noah Michaelson.

Marielle Segarra (50:52)

This message comes from Charles Schwab with their original podcast, Choiceology. Choiceology is a show about the psychology

Raj Punjabi Johnson (50:59)

and economics behind people's decisions. Download the latest episode and subscribe@schwab.com podcast.

Noah Michelson (51:07)

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