Grainger Announcer (2:46)

This message comes from Grainger. This is the story of the One As a procurement manager for a hospital system, she keeps every facility in her network stocked and ready. That's why she counts on Grainger to be her single source for thousands of products, from disinfectants to lighting, air filters, and more. And with fast, dependable delivery, Grainger helps her keep every facility stocked, safe, and running smoothly. Call 1-800-GRAINGER click granger.com or just stop by Granger for the ones who get it done.

Marielle Segarra (3:19)

This is Ira Glass on this American Life. We tell stories about when things change.

Francisco Ramirez (3:24)

Like for this guy David, whose entire life took a sharp, unexpected and very unpleasant turn.

Marielle Segarra (3:30)

And it did take me a while

Francisco Ramirez (3:31)

to realize it's basically because the monkey pressed the button. That's right, because the monkey pressed the button.

Marielle Segarra (3:39)

Surprising stories every week.

Francisco Ramirez (3:41)

Wherever you get your podcasts,

Marielle Segarra (3:45)

Leah Schaefer is writing a novel about vampires and

Leah Shaffer (3:49)

she goes to his hill country home and they sort of trade blood for a safe place for a little while.

Marielle Segarra (3:55)

The year before Leah met her accountability buddy Jamie, she'd written maybe one draft of this book, but this year I've

Leah Shaffer (4:02)

rewritten this three times. I think maybe maybe three and a half. And I wrote two more books. Terrible books, but each better than the last. I definitely don't think I would have gotten the work done this last year if I hadn't had Jamie as my buddy and met every week.

Marielle Segarra (4:18)

We heard from Francisco Ramirez earlier. He's the one with the stuffed Rabbit. He uses FocusMate, a website that matches you with a stranger and you get on a video call, tell each other your goals, then mute yourselves for your 25, 50 or 75 minute session and check in at the end. He's done more than 6,000 of these sessions. Yeah, he's really into it. And he's used it to stay on task with lots of things.

Francisco Ramirez (4:41)

Anything from knocking out contracts, blazing through invoices, writing my book, studying French, writing thank you notes, whatever it may be.

Marielle Segarra (4:49)

Francisco has seen his Focus Mate buddies do all sorts of things too. Practice their juggling, work on jigsaw puzzles,

Francisco Ramirez (4:55)

a lot of practicing of pianos, a lot of tubas. Everyone's trying to play guitar. Somebody plays the harp. It was lovely. I met her in person. She's fantastic.

Marielle Segarra (5:07)

I want you to think about your goals. Maybe you want to get a new job or start that business or learn how to paint. Maybe you want to cook more or do those exercises your physical therapist gave you. If you've struggled to make the time and space on your own, you might benefit from an accountability partner takeaway 1 accountability buddies can be powerful and effective in helping you reach all sorts of goals. Ayelet Fischbach is a professor of behavioral science and marketing at the University of Chicago Booth School of Business. And she says, we need each other.

Ayelet Fischbach (5:41)

We know that people are social animals. We know that people work in groups. People have been working in groups from the beginning of times. We do things with others, and when others are not around, they are in our mind.

Marielle Segarra (6:00)

One related finding from Ayelet's research is that in the press presence of other people, our actions feel more meaningful to us. And that's true even if they're strangers.

Ayelet Fischbach (6:09)

We had people in China playing badminton as part of some event, and when there were more people in the audience, they felt that they either contributed more to the win or contributed more to the loss. But what they did mattered.

Marielle Segarra (6:27)

So this might be one reason accountability buddies work for people. Another is that we've been conditioned to do well in this setup where we have to report our progress to somebody else. Cynthia Pong is the founder and CEO of the career coaching firm Embrace Change.

Cynthia Pong (6:40)

Most of us grew up through some sort of school system where there's a lot of structure and you have to do things on a certain timeline within this container, turn things in, someone else is grading. Like there's that entire dynamic, and so it becomes really ingrained in.

Marielle Segarra (6:56)

Cynthia says accountability buddies can also help because they create defaults in our lives.

Cynthia Pong (7:00)

We've got a thousand reasons why we shouldn't do the thing, but if it's like a standing situation and you just get into that routine, it will just become reflexive. You know, you don't make room for that risk that you're going to fall off the wagon.

Marielle Segarra (7:16)

By the way, the social pressure that comes with having an accountability buddy might work especially well on you if you're the kind of person who likes to please others. So you want to try it out. Takeaway 2 Look for an accountability buddy who's reliable, who wants to see you succeed, and who can encourage you in a way that fits both of your personalities.

Francisco Ramirez (7:36)

I find the accountability buddies that might be the most helpful are the ones who are going to show up.

Marielle Segarra (7:43)

You know, that friend who's a lot of fun, but who cancels plans half the time, or who says they're coming to the party and then they don't come, or they say they're not coming and then they do come. Yeah, they're not your best bet for an accountability buddy. No, you Want Steady Eddie. You want Reliable Rhonda, and you want the person who's counting on you to show up, too.

Cynthia Pong (8:04)

I would look more for character traits of people who have a certain level of discipline around these things and also are not afraid to be like, hey, Marielle, we said we would do this. I know that you don't want to, but I'm going to be here at this time, so please come.

Marielle Segarra (8:18)

As you're auditioning folks for this role, also consider what kind of encouragement you like, what motivates you. Daniel Wood is 35. He's a graphics reporter at NPR. He lives in a suburb outside of D.C. and three days a week, he meets up with other neighborhood dads to pump iron.

Daniel Wood (8:35)

We get a text every night, the night before, 5:45am it's all it says. It says 5:45am and there's sort of an expectation that if you're not going to be there, then the person's gonna bug you the next time you see them.

Marielle Segarra (8:47)

Now, if he has a good reason, maybe they'll cut him some slack, but if he just slept in or something, he's gonna hear about it, and that works for him.

Daniel Wood (8:54)

The optimal amount of shaming in the world is not zero, especially if you consent to it.

Marielle Segarra (8:59)

See, for me, the shaming would backfire. I'd get annoyed and stop showing up. Me, I don't want tough love. I don't want a boot camp instructor. I want a cheerleader and also somebody who'll show up, remind me how much I've accomplished, and tell me to keep going. Going. Cynthia says whatever it is you need, tell your prospective partners, then it's great

Cynthia Pong (9:19)

to explain that to the other person so that they can also be like, yes, I can do that. Or to be honest and be like, listen, I. I truthfully don't know if I'm going to be able to provide that for you.

Marielle Segarra (9:31)

Now you might be thinking, where am I going to find these people? Could be anywhere, really. Daniel got connected with his group when some guy at a holiday party invited him. A year later, they're all best friends. You could also look for or ask around about an existing group, a writing group, a roller skating club, people who meet up and talk about spirituality or their career goals, whatever it is that you're into. Or if you already have a friend who you think could be a good fit, ask them. But your accountability partner does not have to be someone you already know. Leah, the vampire novelist and her accountability buddy Jamie met online.

Leah Shaffer (10:07)

I was on TikTok and just some random dude was like, does anybody want to be accountability buddies with me? And I was like, I don't even know what that is, but sure, I'll try it. And he's an author too. And I just, I said yes. And then we met, I think that same week on Zoom. And I don't think either of us knew exactly what it was going to look like. But we have been meeting every week, every Friday at 9 o' clock for

Marielle Segarra (10:31)

over a year now and Leah says they've become friends, but their relationship was formed for this purpose to work on their creative writing and that is their primary intention.

Leah Shaffer (10:40)

And then we can kind of chit chat afterwards about what we're doing in our lives.

Marielle Segarra (10:43)

For her, this dynamic keeps things simpler.

Leah Shaffer (10:45)

I have a sister, she's a writer too, and I don't think we could do it because we talk too much, you know, about other things.

Marielle Segarra (10:53)

She says it felt easier to do this with a new person than with somebody she was super close to and shared a bunch of history with. It was just lower stakes, right? She didn't feel like she needed to impress him and that made it okay to fall short sometimes. Also remember, you don't have to have the same goals as your accountability partner. Ayelet Fishback says if your goal is to go running twice a week and you have somebody who wants to do that with you, great. But if not, there are other ways.

Ayelet Fischbach (11:20)

Maybe this is going to be a person who exercises in their own way. Maybe you meet after you had your separate exercises for a cup of coffee. Maybe you exchange change notes by the end of the day or the end of the week.

Marielle Segarra (11:38)

We'll have more Life Kit after the break.

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This message comes from Capital One Commercial Bank. Your business requires commercial banking solutions that prioritize your long term success with Capital One. Get a full suite of financial products and services tailored to meet your needs today and goals for tomorrow. Learn more@capitalone.com Commercial Member FDIC this message comes from Granger. This is the story of the 1. As a procurement manager for a hospital system, she keeps every facility in her network stocked and ready. That's why she counts on Grainger to be her single source for thousands of products, from disinfectants to lighting, air filters and more. And with fast, dependable delivery, Grainger helps her keep every facility stocked, safe and running smoothly. Call 1-800-GRAINGER click granger.com or just stop by Granger for the ones who get it done.

Marielle Segarra (12:37)

That brings us to takeaway 3 get clear about your goals and track your progress so you found your buddy. Yay. What are y' all supposed to do now? You can start by setting some goals. Specificity can be helpful here. At first, Leah and Jamie were bringing a wide ranging to do list to the table. They'd set goals like I want to clean my cabinets this week, but that got too big and amorphous for them.

Leah Shaffer (13:02)

So I do think one of the pitfalls is trying to have an accountability buddy for all of your goals. I think narrow it down to, you know, whatever this, this one thing you're meeting about is.

Marielle Segarra (13:12)

They decided to make their sessions just about writing. They meet every Friday morning. He tells her his goals for the week, she tells him hers. Here's an example from the week we interviewed her.

Leah Shaffer (13:22)

When we meet on Friday, I am supposed to have gone through my first 10 chapters in my novel for revisions and recorded five TikToks and he's doing, you know, he'll do some marketing, book marketing because he's got some books out. He'll do some writing goals and they

Marielle Segarra (13:40)

go through the list from the week before. Did you do this? If yes, great. Excited for you. If no, not a huge deal. They also set monthly, quarterly and yearly goals. I yell at fishbacks as when you're thinking about goals, it helps to break them down into smaller pieces. What am I going to do this week, this month? Because there's this phenomenon called the middle problem.

Ayelet Fischbach (14:03)

You see a lot of enthusiasm at the beginning, then motivation declines. Then when you're about to reach the goal again, you see an uptick in motivation. So it's kind of a U shape.

Marielle Segarra (14:16)

For instance, imagine you're saving to buy a house or you're saving for retirement.

Ayelet Fischbach (14:20)

This is so big and so far that unless we break it into how much I'm going to save this year, it's really hard to feel like your efforts pay off in, in any way.

Marielle Segarra (14:35)

So maybe you and your accountability partner say we're going to work out this many times this week or I'm going to write this many pages of my book and you are going to do xyz. Talk to your accountability partner about what kind of check ins will keep you both motivated. And this might change over time. Francisco has an accountability Buddy outside of FocusMate. They meet every Sunday at 10am and when they first started doing it, they created an Excel spreadsheet that each would fill out with their goals and lots of other details.

Francisco Ramirez (15:02)

Anticipated obstacle, solution and action item, action items and tasks. How did I do what worked, what didn't work?

Marielle Segarra (15:09)

And they'd monitor each Other's progress during the week.

Francisco Ramirez (15:11)

Originally, it was very much like a. Did you go for that walk today? Oh, I see the check mark. Yes, you did. Nice work.

Marielle Segarra (15:18)

Eventually they stopped doing that and realized that the Sunday meetups were enough to keep them both on track. But, you know, life happens, and that's when you look to take away. 4. If you feel like you're getting way off track or your accountability arrangement is not working for you, troubleshoot, try something different. The first thing I'll stress here is that even with an accountability Buddy, you're not always going to hit your marks. Francisco, who's done thousands of sessions on Focus Mate, says he has those moments

Francisco Ramirez (15:46)

at the end of a session. I felt like I didn't get a lot done, which happens all the time because, hello, we're human. And my Focus Mate partner looked at me in the camera and said, and you showed up. And that's what matters.

Leah Shaffer (16:02)

We get off track all the time, right? We don't hit our goals all the time.

Marielle Segarra (16:05)

Leah says there's something about doing this with a partner that actually makes falling short feel like less of a big deal. If you aren't meeting all of your goals, cut yourself some slack. But if you're not seeing any progress or you and your partner keep canceling your accountability meetups, then Cynthia says it's time to check in. Maybe your buddy will say, yeah, you know, I'm actually not as into this as I thought, or, this is too busy of a season for me. Let's try again in six months. Or maybe it's something simpler. The time you chose is not convenient for both of you.

Cynthia Pong (16:38)

So then change the time of the zoom, you know, or change it to not a zoom and it's texting. Like, you can try any sort of thing like that to sort of adjust, and you don't need to throw the whole thing out.

Marielle Segarra (16:51)

As you get to know your accountability buddy or buddies, you might notice that you're becoming friends. Like, for real, for real. Maybe that's because partnering up on things we care about can bring us closer to people. Or because you're being vulnerable enough to share your big dreams with someone. And the repetition helps, too. When you see someone consistently, even on a video call, they become a part of your life. Francisco feels this way about his Focus Mate buddies.

Francisco Ramirez (17:17)

I have the people that I get to see every day nearly, who are showing me their cats eating their Crunchies. And there's a lot of sort of, I guess you could call commiseration or moral support around things that we're working on in the world and, you know, changes that we're trying to, you know, affect or impact. And so it's just so special to be able to, you know, connect with people in every corner of the globe and support each other.

Marielle Segarra (17:40)

He's even gone on to meet some of them in person, going to Broadway shows, going ice skating.

Francisco Ramirez (17:44)

But even if I don't connect with people in person, it's just really special feeling like you're not alone in what you're striving to do. For so many of us, even if we're working in office settings, we can feel really isolated.

Marielle Segarra (18:00)

For Daniel, his accountability group banded together during a tough time. One of them had a heart attack last summer, and he says the community the group had already built made it possible for them to step up for their friend.

Daniel Wood (18:12)

It was just like the most natural scaffolding, I think, to, like, go into a new mode of, like, caring for one another, basically. These are just like my family in this city. You know, our wives are friends, and, like, there's more than just this group, but this group has made it consistent in a way that I think a lot of, like, American society doesn't have. People don't have the friendships that. The sort of friendships they used to have.

Marielle Segarra (18:36)

And Daniel says ultimately, the social aspect of the group and the friendships he's formed, that's what gets him to show up.

Daniel Wood (18:43)

We listen to music, and we. We talk about our, like, our. Our kids, our jobs. We talk about politics, and we don't agree. Like, we don't all agree on it, and it's sort of a fun environment, and it's like a safe place to do that stuff. And so I don't want to miss out. So there's a little bit of, like, if it wasn't. If it was just, like, me getting out of bed and running, I wouldn't do it.

Marielle Segarra (19:01)

Of course, you know, it doesn't hurt that he's getting a lot stronger in the process.

Daniel Wood (19:05)

We get sick gains out of it. You know, we get, like, super shredded, so that helps.

Marielle Segarra (19:10)

All right, it's time for a recap. Takeaway 1. Accountability buddies can be a powerful and effective way to reach for what you want in life. Takeaway 2. Look for an accountability buddy who's reliable, who wants to see you succeed, and who can encourage you in a way that fits both of your personalities. Takeaway three, get clear about your goals. It can be helpful to be specific and to break them down into small chunks and also track your progress. If you feel like you're getting way off track or your accountability arrangement is not working for you, try something else. Try a different structure. See if there's something worth holding onto here or if you might find a better fit with somebody else. Before we go, we wanted to let you know that we have a special newsletter series that you can sign up for if you want to take a break from drinking. We'll cover everything from how to deal with uncomfortable questions like hey, why aren't you drinking? To how to make some tasty alcohol free drinks at home. You can sign up by going to npr.org dryjanuary and you can also find the link in the description for this episode. For more Life Kit, check out our other episodes. There's one about how to make a better to do list and another about how to keep up with a creative habit. You can find those@npr.org LifeKit and if you love Life Kit and want even more, subscribe to our newsletter@npr.org LifeKitnewsletter Also, we love hearing from you, so if you have episode ideas or feedback you want to share, email us@lifekitnpr.org this episode of Life Kit was produced by Claire Marie Schneider. Our digital editor is Malika Garib, and our visuals editor is CJ Ricolan. Meghan Keane is our supervising editor and Beth Donovan is our executive producer. Our production team also includes Andy Tagle, Margaret Serino, and Sylvie Douglas. Engineering support comes from Kwesi Lee and Robert Rodriguez. I'm Marielle Segarra. Thanks for listening.