Why you should kill your lawn

Summary

Life Kit (NPR) – “Why You Should Kill Your Lawn”

Host: Marielle Segarra
Guest: Celia Jopis Jepsen, science reporter at Harvest Public Media and host of the podcast “Up from Dust”
Released: May 21, 2026

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Episode Overview

This episode of Life Kit challenges America's love affair with manicured lawns and explores why replacing traditional turf with native plant gardens is one of the most impactful steps individuals can take toward environmental sustainability. Host Marielle Segarra and specialist guest Celia Jopis Jepsen offer practical advice for those interested in transitioning—even in small ways—from grass lawns to wildlife-friendly native habitats. The conversation covers the benefits, common concerns, step-by-step instructions, cost-saving tips, and solutions for renters or those without their own yard.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. The Problem With Lawns (00:15 – 02:35)

• Cultural appeal: Lawns are ingrained in American suburbia and childhood memories, but their dominance is about aesthetics more than utility.
  • “We do, let’s be honest, have a lot more lawn than we actually use. A lot of it is basically just kind of like for the look, right? It’s kind of like aesthetic.” — Celia Jopis Jepsen [00:50]
• Environmental costs:
  • Lawns in the U.S. cover more land than the state of Georgia [01:12].
  • Maintenance requires fertilizer, weed killer, drinking water for sprinklers, and fossil fuels for mowing [01:23].
• Native garden solution:
  • Native plants don’t need constant watering or fertilizing and help local wildlife.
  • “You can do a solid for the environment by ditching even just some of your lawn and replacing it with a wildlife-friendly garden.” — Celia [02:13]

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2. Facing Common Fears and Reservations (04:57 – 07:43)

• Neighborhood expectations:
  • Lawns feel connected to property values; concern over “what the neighbors will think.”
  • Counterpoint: Native gardens can inspire others. Paula Diaz, a master gardener in Kansas City, found her wildlife-friendly yard inspired neighbors to plant native species too [05:54].
  • “There’s always a bird singing or frogs that are croaking, like a Disney movie… her grandchildren love it.” — Celia on Paula's yard [05:54]
• Worries about attracting “bad” wildlife:
  • While some are concerned about ticks, spiders, or snakes, research suggests flower gardens don’t increase tick presence; ticks are more abundant near wooded areas regardless of garden type [06:36-07:43].

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3. How to Start: Killing the Grass and Creating a Bed (08:07 – 10:42)

• Start Small:
  • Experts recommend not tackling the whole lawn at once—try just one flower bed.
    • “Maybe don’t do the whole lawn. Like, people can get really enthusiastic about this, but like just kill a bit of grass and make, make like one flower bed to start.” — Celia [08:07]
• Selecting a location:
  • Consider along a walkway, fence, or under a tree (a “soft landing” for caterpillars) [08:59].
• Grass removal methods:
  • Cardboard + mulch: Easy, starves grass by blocking sunlight (takes ~6 weeks).
  • Black plastic: Similar effect.
  • Sod cutter or shovel: Immediate but labor-intensive.
  • Herbicide: An option but with pros/cons.
  • Take care under trees to avoid root damage [10:42].

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4. Designing and Sourcing Your Native Garden (13:35 – 18:53)

• Personalize your garden:
  • Choose a vision—prairie, cottagecore, woodland, etc. [13:35].
  • Consider sun exposure, soil type, plant height preferences.
• Region-specific selection:
  • Use native plant guides and cheat sheets from local societies for your area [15:02].
  • “The whole point [is] you don’t want to have to baby them. Right. You want them to be kind of like, adapted to where you live and also to the animals where you live.” — Celia [15:02]
• Navigating rules:
  • Check for HOA or city code restrictions on tall flowers or front yard usage [16:28].
  • Gardens can be “tidy” and still naturalistic to fit neighborhood styles.

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5. Saving Money on Native Plant Gardens (17:17 – 18:53)

• Cost-effective strategies:
  • Grow from seed or buy small “plugs” instead of mature plants.
  • Seek out wholesale nurseries—some sell plugs in flats at lower prices.
  • Use local native plant Facebook groups to swap or get plants for free [17:19].
  • Some local governments offer incentives or reimbursements.
  • “There are quite a few cities and counties that have incentives for you to replace part of your lawn with native plants.” — Celia [18:53]

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6. Expectations and Maintenance (19:28 – 21:12)

• Growth timeline:
  • “Sleep, creep, leap”: Year 1 = little growth; Year 2 = small growth; Year 3 = full, thriving garden.
    • “The first year… you’re not really seeing much happen. The plants are sleeping. The second year, they grow a little bit, it’s like they’re creeping. And then the third year, they’re going to, like, really thrive and fill out and look great. So, that’s the leap year.” — Celia [19:28]
• Maintenance needs:
  • Native gardens require less maintenance over time, but not zero.
  • Early years need watering and weeding—gets easier as plants mature and fill the bed.
    • “It gets oft repeated that if you have a native plant garden, there’s no maintenance. Yeah, that’s not a thing.” — Stacia Stell, Deep Roots KC [20:21]

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7. What If You Don’t Have a Yard? (21:12 – 22:39)

• Options for renters/apartment dwellers:
  • Volunteer in local habitat restoration or park projects.
  • Grow native flowers in pots for balconies or patios to provide nectar for pollinators.
    • “Just because you’re maybe not able to, like, plant a larger space right now doesn’t mean there aren’t fun ways to get involved in doing a little something where you live for wildlife.” — Celia [22:39]

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “If you add up all this manicured grass turf that we’ve got in the US at this point, it actually adds up to an area that’s bigger than the state of Georgia.” — Celia [01:12]
• “North America has lost a quarter of its birds. The US has lost like an estimated one fifth of its butterflies…” — Celia [02:13]
• “You want them to be kind of like, adapted to where you live and also to the animals where you live, if that makes sense.” — Celia [15:02]
• “Sleep, creep, leap.” — Celia, on garden growth [19:28]
• “It gets oft repeated that if you have a native plant garden, there’s no maintenance. Yeah, that’s not a thing.” — Stacia Stell, Deep Roots KC [20:21]

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• 00:15–02:35: Why lawns are problematic and what native gardens can do
• 04:57–07:43: Addressing neighborhood and wildlife concerns
• 08:07–10:42: How to tackle your first native garden patch
• 13:35–16:28: Dreaming, designing, and finding the right native plants
• 17:19–18:53: How to save money when making the switch
• 19:28–21:12: Maintenance and managing expectations
• 21:12–22:39: Native gardening options for non-homeowners

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Practical Takeaways

1. Start small: Replace a portion of your lawn with native plants, not the whole yard at once.
2. Pick a location: Good options are under trees (for wildlife) or along fences/walkways.
3. Kill grass thoughtfully: Use cardboard/mulch or tarping for low effort, or dig for immediacy.
4. Design with intention: Think of your garden as an expression of self and community—and plan with local rules and plant societies in mind.
5. Save money: Consider seeds, plugs, trades, or available local incentives.
6. Manage expectations: It can take up to three years for a mature and lush native garden, and maintenance effort decreases over time.
7. No yard? Volunteer in local projects or use pots for native plants and pollinator support.

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“All right, that’s our show. … Thanks for listening and happy planting.” — Marielle Segarra [24:36]

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Transcript

[NPR Sponsor Announcer]

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[Marielle Segarra]

You're listening to Life Kit from npr. Hey, it's Marielle. I grew up in a suburb of New York City, and our neighborhood was the definition of post war development. Lots of houses in the same style, evenly spaced with bright green manicured lawns. And the lawns were good to us. My brother and I, we played barefoot in the sprinklers. We drove around in our little electric red Jeep. We tossed the ball to our dog, who was big and blonde and full of energy. What I'm saying is grassy lawns, they

[Celia Jopis Jepsen]

have their appeal, but the reality is that we do, let's be honest, have a lot more lawn than we actually use. A lot of it is basically just kind of like for the look, right? It's kind of like aesthetic.

[Marielle Segarra]

This is Celia Jopis Jepsen, a science reporter at Harvest Public Media and the host of their environmental podcast, up from Dust.

[Celia Jopis Jepsen]

If you add up all this manicured grass turf that we've got in the US at this point, it actually adds up to an area that's bigger than the state of Georgia.

[Marielle Segarra]

Yeah, it's a lot of lawn. And it's a problem because the things we do to keep these lawns tidy and green tax our environment. We put down fertilizer and weed killer. We use our drinking water supplies to run sprinklers. We burn fossil fuels in our lawnmowers. What if we did things differently? NPR is dedicating this week to stories and conversations about how communities are moving forward on climate solutions despite the political roadblocks, especially at the federal level. One way people are doing that is by replacing their lawns with native plants. Because if you grow plants that are native to your area, you're not going to have to water them very often, except during long dry spells.

[Celia Jopis Jepsen]

And you certainly are not going to have to fertilize them. And you're obviously not going to be running a mower over gorgeous flowers.

[Marielle Segarra]

Plus, you'll be helping the wildlife.

[Celia Jopis Jepsen]

And we know wildlife in our country does need help. North America has lost a quarter of its birds. The US has lost like an estimated one fifth of its butterflies at this point. So you can do a solid for the environment by ditching even just some of your lawn and replacing it with a wildlife friendly garden.

[Marielle Segarra]

The good news is you don't have to ditch your whole lawn to make a difference. In fact, the experts recommend that you start small. That's actually what my dad did in the yard of the house I grew up in. He started a native plant garden along the fence and it is the best part of the space with its fluttering butterflies and massive sunflower stalks that reach toward the sky. On this episode of Life Kit, how to help the planet by starting a Native Plant Garden. Celie is going to walk us through how to actually kill that patch of grass, where to find plants, and what to expect as your garden grows.

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[Marielle Segarra]

Celia, can we walk through some of the fears or reservations that folks might have around this? I feel like a common one is what are the neighbors gonna think, right? If I replace my manicured front lawn with a patch of wildflowers Those are

[Celia Jopis Jepsen]

really legit questions, right? I mean, first of all, lawn culture is real. Like, we love a tidy green law. And I feel like for a lot of us, lawns feel like a safe way to keep property values up in our neighborhoods. Right. Like, it's something. It's a look that we trust. But on the flip side, your neighbors may be, like, totally into attracting wildlife. And, like, they may see your gardens and love it. Someone who knows a lot about this is Paula Diaz. She is a master gardener in Kansas City. She helps people turn their yards into wildlife spaces by adding native plant gardens. One of my neighbors, we were just talking and she says, you, yard is

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so full of life.

[Celia Jopis Jepsen]

That's it. It's the life. It's the. There's always a bird that's singing or frogs that are croaking like a Disney movie. Yeah, I know, right? Like, as far as I know, the birds don't actually come and land on Paula's hand when she calls them. But nevertheless, like, she's got a lot of birds and bees and frogs and things which also her grandchildren love. But that neighbor, you said that to her, like, started planting native plants, too, and so have several other of her neighbors.

[Marielle Segarra]

Another fear I think folks might have is what kind of wildlife is going to show up? Like, maybe I'm rolling out the red carpet for butterflies and birds, but I'm actually going to end up with ticks.

[Celia Jopis Jepsen]

I have talked to people who are feeling like, well, I want to do a native plant flower bed, but I don't really want, like, spiders to show up. Or I want to make sure, like, snakes won't be around. And I. That doesn't really work that way. So for some people, getting into wildlife friendly gardening may mean also kind of working on some of our aversions to these things. These are ultimately beneficial animals. But I do want to get into ticks specifically, which no one likes. Ticks. Ticks are legitimately a very big concern because they can make us really sick. So the question is, like, if you ditch some lawn in favor of a flower bed, does that mean you're gonna have more ticks around? And scientists are looking into that. So far, the research that I've seen, it suggests that flower gardens don't really increase ticks. The real factor here is if you're living basically where ticks wanna live. Like, if you're living right at the edge of the woods, woods have a lot of ticks. They're gonna crawl into your yard. Whether it's lawn or flower beds.

[Marielle Segarra]

Takeaway One, a native plant garden doesn't have to look overgrown. It can look pretty and intentional, something your neighbors will appreciate also. So far the research suggests that gardens are no more likely than traditional lawns to attract ticks. So let's say I am ready to get rid of some of my lawn. How might I start?

[Celia Jopis Jepsen]

The first great tip that I have from experts is like, maybe don't do the whole lawn. Like people can get really enthusiastic about this, but like just kill a bit of grass and make, make like one flower bed to start. So I talked to Stacia Stell. She leads Deep Roots kc, which is a group that educates the public on how and why to ditch lawns for native plants. And she does not go around telling people like, hey, jump in there and do everything at once.

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It can be overwhelming to take on

[Celia Jopis Jepsen]

an expansive garden for any gardener, but especially for a first time, like learning gardener.

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And as you, you know, get more,

[Celia Jopis Jepsen]

more comfortable with your existing garden, there's always room to expand.

[Marielle Segarra]

Well, walk me through how you would kill a bit of grass to create one flower bed.

[Celia Jopis Jepsen]

First things first, like you gotta pick a spot like, where are you gonna kill some grass? And maybe you think it would look really nice to have a flower bed along the walkway to my front door or along a fence or I wanna throw out like the idea of doing it around a tree. So like, maybe you've already got this nice oak tree in your yard and you could replace the grass around it with a flower bed. And that's like a legit thing. Like that approach is called a soft landing because actually there's all these like butterfly caterpillars and things in the tree. And when they finish eating oak leaves, they're going to come down and they're going to look for a place to make their chrysalis. And they need someplace safe away from lawnmowers and such. So you're creating a safe space for them. Once you've got your spot, you're going to like go ahead and kill the grass. And that sounds intimidating, but there's actually lots of options. And some of them are easier than others. Some like, work faster than others. So an easy approach is layer cardboard and mulch just right on top of that grass. You're going to cut off the sunlight. And so without sunlight, the grass is going to die. It could take like six weeks or so, but it's going to die. Another option is you could layer out black plastic on it that blocks the light. It also blocks the rain. You can also like rent a sod cutter or dig it out by shovel. Some people spray herbicide. Every approach is going to have pros and cons. Obviously, digging it out with a shovel, you know, that's, that's fast. That's like instant gratification. It's also a lot of labor. It takes a lot of muscle that like I don't have. But you know, putting down cardboard on it, that's easy. On the other hand, you're going to have to wait longer till that grass is dead.

[Marielle Segarra]

Takeaway 2 Time to kill some grass first, you want to pick a spot. Remember, you don't have to do this all at once. And it's not all or nothing anyway. Do you have a tree? How about a small patch underneath it to create a soft landing for caterpillars? Next to a fence is great too. Or along a walkway. Once you pick a spot, you have some options. You could layer cardboard and mulch to starve the grass of sunlight. You could also do that with black plastic tarp. Alternatively, you could use a sod cutter or dig the grass out with a shovel. That's much faster, but it takes more muscle and the site of the garden does matter. Here, if you're working under a tree, for instance, you won't want to use a sod cutter because you could damage the tree roots coming up. What to do after you've killed your lawn.

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[Celia Jopis Jepsen]

with pop culture sometimes feels like a full time job. Thankfully, over at Pop Culture Happy Hour, it's literally our job.

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[Celia Jopis Jepsen]

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[Celia Jopis Jepsen]

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[Marielle Segarra]

All right, so the grass is dead. Rip. Can I start planting?

[Celia Jopis Jepsen]

Yes. Now you get to the fun part of designing the bed. You're going to pick the flowers, the bushes, you know, what do you want it to look like? This is when you're going to do some dreaming, like look out your window. You know, what do you imagine would be pretty to look out and see every day? You could go full on, like cottagecore and do big drifts of pastel colors. Or maybe you want something that feels like a prairie and it's swaying in the wind and has tall grasses and bright, cheerful sunflowers. It's kind of up to you. You could do like a woodland look so that you walking in your yard, you feel like it's in the woods with an oak tree and like, some short, pretty woodland flowers underneath it.

[Marielle Segarra]

That sounds so nice.

[Celia Jopis Jepsen]

Yeah. It can be an expression of who you are. And once you have that vision, then you'll also need some details, like about the spot that you picked. Right. So is it in full sun? What's your soil like? Is it sandy? Is it like clay? Are you looking for tall plants or, like, really short ground covers? You're kind of like putting together a shopping list of like, like your specifications, I guess. Then you're going to go online and look for a native plant guide that's specific to your region. You're going to want native plants from your region because obviously, like, wildlife friendly plants are totally different if you're in Arizona versus New York. Right. They're not the same plants.

[Marielle Segarra]

And that's like the whole point, right?

[Celia Jopis Jepsen]

That is the whole point. You don't want to have to baby them. Right. You want them to be kind of like, adapted to where you live and also to the animals where you live, if that makes sense. So online, there are lots of great, like, native plant societies, wildlife groups that will be regional. They'll have cheat sheets, basically like, here's the top 10 native flowers, you know, for the Midwest for a shade garden. Or they'll like just plain lay out flower beds. Like, here's a 10 foot wide flower bed for this type of bed in the Southeast. And you can like steal a cheat sheet and use it right, make it a little easier for yourself. And then the other thing that's nice about those websites is that they'll probably also have a list of, of places where you can actually buy those plants. Which sounds like, well, how hard could that be? But the reality is native plant gardening is still kind of niche in some places. Some regular nurseries will have some of these plants, but, like, the surefire way to find them is to get a list of the native plant nurseries in your city or your state.

[Marielle Segarra]

Takeaway 3. Design your garden. What would you like to see out there swaying in the wind? What colors inspire you? Think about the spot where you're planting and what kind of sunlight it gets, what soil it has, and what native plants would thrive there. And if this is your front lawn, also consider any neighborhood rules that would apply here.

[Celia Jopis Jepsen]

When you're picking your plants, you should pay attention to whether, for example, do you have a homeowner's association or are there like, city codes that are particularly strict in your area. Like, I met one person who a city coder made them rip the milkweed out of their front yard. So city rules can matter. There can be rules specifically against tall flowers in your front yard or tall flowers within a certain number of feet of the curb to make sure you're not like blocking view. Yeah, there can be rules like that that are worth paying attention to, definitely. But to be clear, you can garden in a way that's going to fit in in your neighborhood. So, like, if you live in a very manicured neighborhood and you want to fit in with that, look like you can do that. Or if you want something that looks more naturalistic because that's your style, like you can do.

[Marielle Segarra]

How expensive is all this?

[Celia Jopis Jepsen]

Yeah, buying lots of plants, that can add up really fast. So there are a few ways to save money. One good tip is that you can grow plants from seed. You can buy native plant seeds online or from like a local native plant nursery. You can also look for nurseries that sell plugs, like just very small plants in six packs or even in flats. Instead of shelling out big bucks for mature plants. You can even, you know, sometimes that could be a wholesaler, for example, who's like, mostly selling to landscape contractors, but who might Also let you walk in and buy plugs by the flat at a better price that you're going to get, like, at a typical retail place. And then, like, I have a tip for potentially getting plants for free, and that is to look for native plant Facebook groups in your area, because lots of gardeners swap or give away plants because they'll. They'll plant something in their garden, it will grow, and a few years later, like, it's maybe gone to seed and produced baby plants. And people are happy to swap or give away plants when they have extras. And then a final money tip on this is that nowadays there are quite a few cities and counties that have incentives for you to replace part of your lawn with native plants. So that can mean reimbursing you for part of the cost, and it's worth looking into that before you even start to see if there's something like that in your area.

[Marielle Segarra]

Takeaway 4. Mature plants can be expensive, so to save money, you could grow plants from seed or look for nurseries that sell plugs, which are just very small plants. A hot tip is to look for a wholesaler who sells to landscape contractors but is willing to let you buy plugs by the flat and wholesale plumbing prices. Also look for native plant Facebook groups in your area, because a lot of folks give away plants for free or they're willing to swap, and you might be able to get money from your city or your county for planting a native garden. Well, how long is it going to take for the garden to actually look good?

[Celia Jopis Jepsen]

A common rule of thumb that gardeners like to use for any kind of flower gardening really is this idea of sleep, creep, leap. So three years, like that first year, you're not really seeing much happen. The plants are sleeping. The second year, they grow a little bit, it's like they're creeping. And then the third year, they're going to, like, really thrive and fill out and look great. So that's the leap year, Celia. Three years.

[Marielle Segarra]

Like, I'm looking for instant gratification.

[Celia Jopis Jepsen]

Well, if you have a very deep bank account, a lot of magical things can happen, Marielle. But if you want to do it on the cheap, then I think patience goes a long way.

[Marielle Segarra]

Okay, three years it is.

[Celia Jopis Jepsen]

Yes.

[Marielle Segarra]

And then what do you have to do from there? Like, what does maintenance look like?

[Celia Jopis Jepsen]

Yeah, it gets oft repeated that if you have a native plant garden, there's no maintenance. Here's Stacia again from Deeproots, KC Yeah, that's not a thing.

[Marielle Segarra]

But it does require less maintenance over time.

[NPR Sponsor Announcer]

Honestly, even the first year, especially with the inconsistent rain cycles we've been having lately, thanks to climate change, watering it

[Celia Jopis Jepsen]

the first couple years is always a good idea, especially when we're in the middle of a drought or a really dry time of year and it's 110 degrees or whatever. So, yes, there is some maintenance. You're going to want to stay on top of watering and weeding that bed, especially while those plants are maturing. But it does get easier. The weeding gets easier over time when your plants get nice and big and fill out your flower bed. And then you're not going to end up having to water these plants much if you've, like, picked the right plants for your region and your site.

[Marielle Segarra]

All right, so what if you don't have your own house? You're either renting the house or you live in an apartment. And you don't have a yard where you can do this. But you still are interested in, you know, being more wildlife friendly, making more space for tiny creatures.

[Celia Jopis Jepsen]

Yeah. So, I mean, there are definitely things that you can still do. One cool option would be to look for, like, local volunteer opportunities to do things like plant or maintain wildlife gardens in the local road medians or pocket parks or city parks. Sometimes there's going to be like a local agency or a neighborhood group that needs lots of hands on deck to, you know, maybe weed these spaces, especially while they're getting established, or to help remove invasive plants that are kind of getting in there and smothering the wildlife habitat. And, you know, that's a fun way to also meet other people who are interested in what you're interested in. And then if you have any outdoor space, like maybe you have a patio or a balcony, you can grow native flowers in pots as well and attract bees and butterflies maybe to your patio that way and give them some nectar. So just because you're maybe not able to, like, plant a larger space right now doesn't mean there aren't fun ways to get involved in doing a little something where you live for wildlife.

[Marielle Segarra]

Celia, thank you so much for this.

[Celia Jopis Jepsen]

Thank you. It's been fun.

[Marielle Segarra]

Okay, time for a recap. Takeaway. One, a native plant garden does not have to look overgrown. It can look pretty and intentional. Takeaway. Two, time to kill some grass. Remember, you don't have to do this all at once. And it's not all or nothing. You could layer cardboard and mulch to starve the grass of sunlight. You could also do that with a black plastic tarp. Alternatively, you could use a sod cutter or dig the grass out with a shovel. That is much faster, but it takes more muscle. Design your garden. What would you like to see out there? Think about the spot where you're planting and what kind of sunlight it gets, what soil it has, and what native plants would thrive there. Also, consider any neighborhood rules takeaway four Some ways to save money Grow plants from seed or look for nurseries that sell plugs, which are just very small plants. Also look for landscaping wholesalers and follow the native plant Facebook groups in your area because a lot of folks give away plants for free or they're willing to swap. All right, that's our show. Just a reminder that you can sign up for Life Kit plus to support our work at NPR and to get curated playlists on popular Life Kit topics. Start Listening today at plus.NPR.org LifeKit this episode of Life Kit was produced by Sylvie Douglas. It was edited by Shayla Farzon and Neela Banerjee. Our digital editor is Malika Garib and our visuals editor is CJ Ricolan. Megan Keane is our senior Supervising Editor and Beth Donovan is our Executive Producer. Our production team also includes Margaret Serino and Claire Marie Schneider. Fact checking by Andrea Lopez Crusado Engineering support from Nisha Hyness. I'm Marielle Segarra. Thanks for listening and happy planting.

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