Podcast
Listen, Learn & Love Hosted by Richard Ostler
Hosted by Richard Ostler · EN
Welcome to our podcast!
My name is Richard H. Ostler and I am a native of Salt Lake City, small business owner, married father of six with several grandchildren. I believe in and am deeply committed to the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and want it to work for a wider group.
I am the author of three books:
“Listen Learn and Love: Embracing LGBTQ Latter-day Saints” published in 2020 available at Amazon (amazon.com/dp/1462135773)
“Listen Learn and Love: Improving Latter-day Saint Culture” published in 2022. The book explores who we can do better to help all Latter-day Saints feel more welcome, needed and a feeling of belonging in our congregations. Available at Amazon (amazon.com/dp/1462139566)
“Listen Learn and Love: Building the Good Ship Zion” released in Sept 2023. The book explores additional topics to help all Latter-day Saint feel welcome and needed on the Good Ship Zion. Available at Amazon (amazon.com/dp/1462145280)
The purpose of all three books is to help us better create Zion by helping more feel welcome, a sense of belonging, and needed in our congregations.
Proceed from the books go the Stockton Power Memorial Scholarship (www.standingforstockton.com) in honor of Stockton Powers a gay Latter-day Saint teenager who died of suicide in 2016. Everything I do is a self-funded labor of love ❤️
I am the author of two Ensign articles:
‘How the Savior’s Healing Power Applies to Repenting from Sexual Sin’ (August 2020/YSA Digital Only) www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/ensign/2020/08/young-adults/how-the-saviors-healing-power-applies-to-repenting-from-sexual-sin
‘7 Tips for Overcoming Pornography Use’ (October, page 72) www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/ensign/2020/10/young-adults/7-tips-for-overcoming-pornography-use.
This podcast is designed to discuss some more complicated issues in our church to help all of us better “listen, learn and love” so we can minister in a more effective way to all of our Heavenly Parents’ children.
Podcasts are indexed by category at listenlearnandlove.org/podcasts
Thank you for joining us. You can't donate to this podcast. There are no sponsors. But you can leave a review/rate the podcast on the platform you are listening and/or leave a review at Deseret Book/Amazon on my books.
With love, Richard 'Papa' Ostler ❤
Twitter: twitter.com/Papa_Ostler
IG: www.instagram.com/papa_ostler
Facebook: facebook.com/richard.ostler.5
Substack: https://substack.com/@papaostler
E-mail: richard@ostlergroup.com
72episodes
Episodes
Newest firstAll episodes
Episode 922: Seth Bott, Noted LDS Organist and Teacher, Gay, Same-Sex Relationship, Good Man
5d ago01:16:13Tap to summarizeMy friend Dr. Seth Bott (PhD in Music Arts and Organ Performance, Director of Music, late 30s, Choir Master and Organist at St. James Episcopal Church, organ instructor, frequent performer in LDS spaces like education week) joins us to share his powerful story: Growing up in Castle Dale, Utah—dream of being a Tabernacle Organist Knowing he was gay—never going to tell anyone—believe just being gay was a sin until an Elder Holland talk Great mission, great experience at BYU (undergraduate and graduate degrees). Dream of being a Tabernacle Organist on track Friends getting married, not able to make it with a girl, desired companionship, finally started to come out Positive coming out experiences with family—including very tender experience with his Dad Dating men, being in an 11-year relationship which ended, his current partner Michael (super good relationship) Finding new dreams—not going to be a Tabernacle Organist Respect for LDS Church and respect for all paths that LGB Latter-day Saints walk Going back to his childhood ward in Castle Dale with his boyfriend for his parents’ homecoming and performing a musical number during the service. Love and acceptance for both of them—a little slice of Zion. Thank you, Seth, for being on the podcast. Respect for all your accomplished in your life with music, teaching and leading with love—like Jesus does. You are a good man and are doing so much to make this world a better place. Links: Seth’s Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/seth.bott.5 Seth’s IG: @sethgbott Church News Article about Seth: https://www.thechurchnews.com/living-faith/2024/09/18/organ-virtuoso-series-concert-2024-salt-lake-tabernacle-organ-seth-bott/
Transcribe →Episode 921: Jeremy and Sara Kerrigan, Recently Divorced, Great Friends, Co-Parenting
1w ago01:14:58Tap to summarizeMy friends Jeremy Kerrigan (gay, on episode 761, chiropractor) and Sara Kerrigan (straight, teacher, mother of 5) joins us to share their story: Why their marriage ended—the right outcome for both of them Why they remain best friends—and why their communication, honesty and vulnerability is even better now How we can better support couples that divorce including more listening, curiosity, and less advice How we can do a better job of not choosing sides in some divorce situations How their values remain the same—even though their beliefs have changed—super powerful perspective Supporting their kids (oldest is on a mission) This is not an episode advocating for divorce. However, this is a reality for some couples. Jeremy and Sara bravely share their story helping us to see what kind of a relationship is possible after divorce in some situations. Their journey is a beautiful love story. Thank you, Jeremy, and Sara, for being on the podcast. Your story is so needed in our community. You two are remarkable people. Links: Jeremy on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/drkerrigan Sara on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/ctrsara Jeremy on IG: @jeremykerriganaz Sara on IG: ctrsara
Transcribe →Episode 920: Chris Bissett, Gay Latter-day Saint, Mixed Orientation Marriage, Super Insightful
2w ago01:05:59Tap to summarizeMy friend Chris Bissett (lives in Raymond, Alberta Canada, married father of 5, serving in Bishopric) joins us to share his story including: Realizing he is gay before his mission—learning how to balance his faith and his sexuality alone and dealing with the shame. Navigating things in the church that were helpful and some other things that were hurtful “Rage praying” and getting an answer “God was OK with me being gay” Coming out to his wife Becky in the first year of their marriage—wanted to be honest and have a relationship on trust While his wife is very supportive, he recognized he didn’t give her a choice, learning that a marriage of love needs to be built on truth (authenticity) and choice. Helpful meeting and getting great advice with Elder Holland early in their marriage Eventually couldn’t keep being gay on the “back burner”—needed to come out more openly Taking away the shame—living with confidence How he moved from seeing being gay as a “sacrifice” to moving toward “consecration” and using being himself as a gay member to build Zion His powerful Wayfare Article called “Light in a Watery Darkness, Finding a Way with Consecrated Identity” (see show notes). Chris shares a super insightful story with unique insights and perspectives—all coming from a place of no-shame, integrity, and confidence. I learned so much from Chris. If you are an LGBTQ Latter-day Saint, Chris’s story will help you. And Chris’s story will help you if you are looking to better understand and support our LGBTQ friends. You are a good man, Chris. Honored to have you on the podcast! Links: Wayfare article: https://www.wayfaremagazine.org/p/wilt-thou-suffer-that-we-shall-cross Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/chrisbissett
Transcribe →Episode 919: Natalie Brown: New Book “After Happiness: Living with Faith in a Time of Crisis”
2w ago01:16:33Tap to summarizeMy friend Natalie Brown (JD, University of Virginia School of Law; PhD, Columbia University; Latter-day Saint; Salt Lake Tribune guest columnist; and mother of two) joins us to talk about her new book After Happiness: Living with Faith in a Time of Crisis. In the podcast/book Natalie talks about: How gospel messaging became entwined with individualistic formulas for happiness in the late Twentieth Century How some of the formulas the Church associated with the "plan of happiness" are now economically or otherwise out of reach for many members How happiness should not be used as measuring stick of evidence of gospel truth Problems with the “prosperity gospel” How feeling happy is not a choice for many Latter-day Saints—and they shouldn’t feel judged for this or told to just be “more happy” How to find peace and opportunity after failure and unwanted disruption Finding perspective in Nephi’s story on how to move forward in the face of societal collapse Why she stays in the Church How affordability is a major reality for younger Latter-day Saints Natalie is one of the “wisest and most original thinkers” in our community “tackling the profound question of what constitutes the good life.” If you want to find more peace, hope, and acceptance in your life (and become better at helping others), please read Natalie’s book. Links: Natalie’s book on Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0H64LBW2B Natalie’s website: https://www.nataliebrown.com/ Natalie’s IG: @nataliebrownwriter Launch Event: July 30th, 6 pm-7:30 pm, Compass Gallery, 250 W, Center Street #101, Provo, UT 84601. RSVP here: https://www.thecompassgallery.com/event-details/after-happiness-book-launch-with-natalie-brown
Transcribe →Episode 918: Rich Cope, Gay, Successful Career in Real Estate, Super Powerful Story
2w ago01:16:25Tap to summarizeMy friend Rich Cope (early 50s, father of four) join us to share his brave, vulnerable, and honest story in hopes of helping others: Growing up in Utah County and not fitting the mold/expectations for a man Great insights about broadening the definition of masculinity Processing his attractions to men in a vacuum—with no outside support/understanding Serving a mission and learning God loves him and will always be with him Trying to make it work with a woman—be told it will all work out Getting married—good marriage—why that marriage eventually ended Being closeted and being a dad to a gay son (who was out, authentic, and accepted himself) Decision to come out to his wife and then more broadly (lots of acceptance) Powerful testimony on how God loves all of His children—gay or straight Advice for younger LGBTQ folks This was another deeply moving podcast from my friend Rich Cope—who is so vulnerable, real, and honest—all attributes of masculinity. This podcast will help you in you are LGBTQ and help the rest of us better love/accept ourselves, know God’s love for us, and how to better love/support our LGBTQ friends. You are a good man, Rich. Honored to have you on the podcast. Links: Instagram: @richcoperealtor
Transcribe →Episode 917: Michael Soto, Transgender Man, President/CEO Equality Arizona, Great Soul
3w ago01:33:15Tap to summarizeMy friend Michael Soto (mid-40s, transitioned 20+ years ago, bridge builder including being invited by the Church to attend two Temple open houses, powerful story) joins us to share: Feeling he is a boy since his earliest memories Feeling hopeless Learning he is transgender—realized there was a path for him—for the first time had hope How much transitioning has helped him in all aspects of his life (emotionally, spiritually, career, etc) Powerful story of how his father accepted and supported him Powerful story of how his mother—caring for Micheal after top surgery—fully accepted him Advice to parents who have a child experiencing gender dysphoria I share some thoughts about: Seeing our transgender friends in the parable of the Good Samaritan Importance of proximity—get to know transgender people from them—not from load/fear-based voices How the comparison to being “car sick” helped me to understand gender dysphoria/need to transition Thank you, Michael, for being on the podcast. You are a good man—one of my heroes. Thanks for all you are doing in our world to improve the lives of LGBTQ. Thanks for your great heart, love for everyone, and your discipleship. Links: Equality Arizona: https://www.equalityarizona.org/ Michael Soto on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/michaelscsoto Michael Soto in IG: @michaelsantiagocsoto
Transcribe →Episode 916: Brent Edwards, Bi-Sexual Latter-day Saint, Mid 50’s
3w ago01:01:17Tap to summarizeMy friend Brent Edwards (active LDS, lives in Joplin Missouri, married) joins us to share his story in hopes that is helps other bisexual Latter-day Saints to not feel alone, don’t have shame, and that God loves them. Brent shares: Pre-mission experiences around being attracted to boys Serving a mission (belated confession to his Mission President—great experience) Getting married—30+ years of not feeling bi-sexual How being bi-sexual gradually became something he needed to address—came out to his wife (good experience) and then his church community Learning how to deal with being bi-sexual in a more healthy way How Brent and his wife concluded he needed to tell his story Powerful spiritual experiences—experience that help other queer Latter-day Saints know God loves them Thank you, Brent, for being on the podcast. Your brave and unique story will help others. Thank you for your courage. You are a good man. Links: Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/brent.edwards.71066700 Instagram: @brentedwards505 E-mail: brentedwards@ymail.com
Transcribe →Episode 915: Scott Mena, The Theater Guy, Gay Latter-Day Saint, Active LDS
3w ago01:22:35Tap to summarizeMy friend Scott Mena (lives in Deltona Florida, mid-30s) joins us to share his amazing story: * Growing up closeted in a world and shame—being gay meant AIDS * Hiding and trying to change * Gaining a testimony * Coming out to his mom and Bishop * Working to solve pornography use * His friend Mickeal * Serving a mission to Denver (positive experience) * Going to Pulse (before the massacre in 2016) * Working through suicidal thoughts * Coming out publicly and getting involved with LGBTQ community (PFLAG, etc) * Living between two worlds (LDS community and LGBTQ community) * Being “Mr. DeLand Pride”, being a drag entertainer, Ward Mission Leader * Help start Volusia Gathering and how it helped his dad * Final testimony Thank you, Scott, for being on the podcast. You story is super powerful and hopeful. You are a great man who was walked a difficult road with courage, faith, and hope. Honored to have you on the podcast. Links: Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/scottymena/ Facebook https://www.facebook.com/scottmenaactor YouTube Channel info - https://www.youtube.com/@scottythetheaterguy Website - http://www.scottmena.com Extra info - https://linktr.ee/thetheaterguy
Transcribe →Episode 914: Alisha Anderson, Gay, LDS faith, Artist, Same-Sex Marriage, Remarkable Woman
4w ago01:05:22Tap to summarizeMy friend Alisha Anderson (graduate degrees in Environmental Humanities and Masters of Fine Arts, Artist, Writer, Adjunct Professor, mid-30s), joins us to share her queer story center around four main themes: Love is easy when it's based on sameness. The true test of love is difference. Time is one of God’s greatest tools. I've come to believe in a God who does not wish to sacrifice me, but grow me. We need each other—in both our suffering and our joy. As part of these themes, Alisha shares unique and powerful insights are deeply moving—and even after 900+ episodes are unique. Insights that I believe will help other queer Latter-day Saints find hope as they bravely move forward—and insights that help allies/parents better support/love our queer friends. Thank you, Alisha, for being on the podcast. I learned so much from you! You are so emotional/spiritual/intellectually mature and thoughtful. You are a gift to our community. Honored to have you on the podcast! Links: Instagram: @_a_anderson Website: alishaanderson.org
Transcribe →Episode 913: Bob Rees, 40+ Years of Supporting LGBTQ Latter-day Saints
4w ago01:04:20Tap to summarizeMy friend and mentor Robert A. Rees (en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_A._Rees), age 90, who loved and supported his gay/lesbian members while serving as a singles ward bishop in Los Angeles from 1986-1992, joins us talk about his new book called “Imagining and Reimaging the Restoration”. Bob talks about how Joseph Smith creative mind allowed him to imagine the impossible leading to the first vision and subsequent revelations—and how we should continue to use his example to imagine and reimagine what is possible for LGBTQ Latter-day Saints. Super powerful imagery. Bob also talks about: Why he is a “Matthew 25 Latter-day Saint and Christian” Why is heart is broken for our LGBTQ friends Why he stays in the Church Bob (along with Carol Lynn Pearson, Greg Prince, William Bradshaw, and others) are some of the earliest and most impactful LGBTQ allies. Their brave work and helped so many of our LGBTQ friends and has given new allies (like me) vision to join their LGBTQ ally discipleship. Thank you, Bob, for all your many contributions over many decades. You are a treasure to our community and beyond. Honored to have you on the podcast. You also give vision of what is possible at age 90! Links: Bob’s new book: https://www.amazon.com/dp/158958824X Bob’s Wiki: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_A._Rees
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