Podcast
Listen, Learn & Love Hosted by Richard Ostler
Hosted by Richard Ostler · EN
Welcome to our podcast!
My name is Richard H. Ostler and I am a native of Salt Lake City, small business owner, married father of six with several grandchildren. I believe in and am deeply committed to the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and want it to work for a wider group.
I am the author of three books:
“Listen Learn and Love: Embracing LGBTQ Latter-day Saints” published in 2020 available at Amazon (amazon.com/dp/1462135773)
“Listen Learn and Love: Improving Latter-day Saint Culture” published in 2022. The book explores who we can do better to help all Latter-day Saints feel more welcome, needed and a feeling of belonging in our congregations. Available at Amazon (amazon.com/dp/1462139566)
“Listen Learn and Love: Building the Good Ship Zion” released in Sept 2023. The book explores additional topics to help all Latter-day Saint feel welcome and needed on the Good Ship Zion. Available at Amazon (amazon.com/dp/1462145280)
The purpose of all three books is to help us better create Zion by helping more feel welcome, a sense of belonging, and needed in our congregations.
Proceed from the books go the Stockton Power Memorial Scholarship (www.standingforstockton.com) in honor of Stockton Powers a gay Latter-day Saint teenager who died of suicide in 2016. Everything I do is a self-funded labor of love ❤️
I am the author of two Ensign articles:
‘How the Savior’s Healing Power Applies to Repenting from Sexual Sin’ (August 2020/YSA Digital Only) www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/ensign/2020/08/young-adults/how-the-saviors-healing-power-applies-to-repenting-from-sexual-sin
‘7 Tips for Overcoming Pornography Use’ (October, page 72) www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/ensign/2020/10/young-adults/7-tips-for-overcoming-pornography-use.
This podcast is designed to discuss some more complicated issues in our church to help all of us better “listen, learn and love” so we can minister in a more effective way to all of our Heavenly Parents’ children.
Podcasts are indexed by category at listenlearnandlove.org/podcasts
Thank you for joining us. You can't donate to this podcast. There are no sponsors. But you can leave a review/rate the podcast on the platform you are listening and/or leave a review at Deseret Book/Amazon on my books.
With love, Richard 'Papa' Ostler ❤
Twitter: twitter.com/Papa_Ostler
IG: www.instagram.com/papa_ostler
Facebook: facebook.com/richard.ostler.5
Substack: https://substack.com/@papaostler
E-mail: richard@ostlergroup.com
72episodes
Episodes
Newest firstAll episodes
Episode 892: Greg Prince Book “Gay Rights and the Mormon Church”, Episode Two
May 1501:17:31Tap to summarizeMy friend Greg Prince (writer, scientist, businessman, philanthropist—see bio at: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gregory_Prince) joins us to talk about his book “Gay Rights and the Mormon Church: Intended Actions, Unintended Consequences” released in 2019. In this episode, Greg talks the legal efforts of the Church to stop same-sex marriage starting in Hawaii (1990), Proposition 22 (2000) and Proposition 8 (2008) in California, and other efforts—and the “Unintended Consequences” along the way. Greg takes us behind the screens to understand the Church role in and arguments against same-sex marriage—arguments that end up not being empirically defendable. Stung and surprised by the backlash against the Church for its role in Proposition 8, Greg shares the stories of reconciliation between both groups—and how that led to the Church’s support for LGBTQ+ non-discrimination protections in Utah regarding housing and employment (SB296 in 2015). Greg talks about the Church support in 2023 for the Respect for Marriage Act—sending a General Authority Seventy for the signing of the bill at the White House. I believe it is important to understand the church’s efforts against same sex marriage—and its ultimate support 32 years later for the Respect for Marriage Act. It helps me understand the needless pain for LGBTQ Latter-day Saints and their families largely driven by the culture and fearmongering of the day—and to also open our hearts and minds to future efforts to better support them. It also causes me to consider targeted groups today—like our LDS transgender friends—and not wanting to fall in the same pattern. Thank you Greg for being on the podcast and all your efforts to bring more understanding and support for LGBTQ Latter-day Saints and their families. Links: Greg’s Book on Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08P7Q8QZB Church’s support for Respect for Marriage Act: https://www.thechurchnews.com/leaders/2022/12/13/23508214/church-releases-statement-amended-u-s-respect-for-marriage-act-signing/
Transcribe →Episode 891: Amy Thelin — Bisexual Latter-day Saint, Upcoming Same-Sex Marriage
May 1301:02:06Tap to summarizeMy friend Amy Thelin (who grew up in Virginia, served in Tahiti Papeete Mission, taught at the Missionary Training Center, and graduated from Brigham Young University) joins us to share her story. Amy reflects on the deeply spiritual experiences that led her to become active in the Church and serve a mission, motivated by her desire to help others feel the love of Christ. Amy also talks about returning home from her mission, transferring to BYU, earning a degree in Human Development, and later teaching at the MTC. She then shares what it was like to finally “take her sexuality off the shelf” and begin honestly addressing it after years of keeping herself busy to avoid it. Through prayer, scripture study, temple attendance, and personal revelation, Amy came to feel peace about her path forward—including the feeling that “dating girls is good for you.” She talks about falling in love with Melanie and the excitement surrounding their upcoming wedding in June 2026. Amy also discusses navigating these experiences while attending BYU, including both meaningful and difficult moments, as well as the grief she feels in not being able to fully participate in the Church. Amy and Melanie share their hope of finding ward leaders and church communities where they can feel loved, accepted, spiritually safe, and connected to Jesus Christ—a simple hope to “just be OK to be here.” Thank you, Amy, for being on the podcast and for the many lives you have blessed and will continue to bless. I hope for better days ahead for queer members of the Church—days where they can feel loved, accepted, needed, and valued. You are awesome, and you have a beautiful life ahead of you. Links:
Transcribe →Episode 890: Dilyn Eyerly, Bisexual Queer Latter-day Saint
May 1101:18:30Tap to summarizeMy friend Dilyn Eyerly (student at Utah Valley University, age 31, RM, active LDS) joins us to share her story. Dilyn talks about growing up and realizing she was not straight and navigating that with herself, her family and the Church. Dilyn talks about her decision to serve a mission and the suicidal ideation she dealt with and how she was able to finish her mission. Dilyn talks about “Godly Anger” and coming out “fine I’m Bi”—and how coming out (“letting people in”) helped her and her journey with the Church. Dilyn talks about not going to Church but attending the UVU LGBTQ Institute class—and how that class (and all the supportive Institute Teachers)—eventually created a desire to go back to Church and the Temple—including telling her Bishop and Stake President “I’m a Bisexual Queer Woman and I’m done hiding, especially at Church.” Thank you Dilyn for your courage to come on the podcast and share your story. You are super brave and courageous. I learned so much from you story on how to better love and support LGBTQ Latter-day Saints. You helpful me further realize that fulling owning one’s identity and having supportive people in one’s life can be the road back to the Church. You are awesome. And I wish the UVU LGBTQ Institute class could scale church-wide so more could have the love, understanding, help connecting to God/Jesus, support that are in the class. Thank you for all the UVU Institute teachers who are supporting queer Latter-day Saints. Links: Dilyn’s Instagram: @dilyndidwhat
Transcribe →Episode 889: Chad Call, Executive Director Utah Pride
May 1001:11:59Tap to summarizeMy friend Chad Call (late 30s, gay, former business/event executive, bridge builder) joins us to share his story. Chad talks about growing up in Kaysville Utah, serving a mission, being active in his YSA Ward, stepping away from the Church, coming out as gay and making his way forward. Chad talks about his supportive parents (Lisa and Jeff—Jeff was my missionary companion in England) and all they are doing to keep their family together including being on the front row of the Utah Pride Parade. This is a beautiful family love story—and an example on how to keep family relationship strong and healthy—even with people on different paths and different beliefs. Chad then talks about the Utah Pride Center—what the organization does—and how we can support them. Chad helped me better understand all the good that Utah Pride Center has done in our community and continued need role they provide. Please consider donating to Utah Pride Center (see show notes) and/or attending Utah Pride on June 6-7, 2026. Thank you Chad for being on the podcast. You are a good man and doing life-saving work in our community. Links: Utah Pride Donation: https://utahpridecenter.org/donate
Transcribe →Episode 888: Amanda Wilkinson, New Book: "Walking With Grace: A Memoir In Two Voices"
May 701:08:27Tap to summarizeOur guest today is Amanda Wilkinson — speaker, author, leadership consultant, and mother of five — joining us to talk about her new book "Walking with Grace," a mother-daughter collection that brings her daughter Gracelyn to life through her own words, art, music, and soul. Gracelyn passed away at age 20 on August 8, 2024. Amanda has also lost a son, Bennett. The book weaves a beautiful story of Grace through journal entries, original lyrics, and artwork. QR codes throughout the book also link to videos and music of Grace. In this episode, Amanda shares the life and goodness of Grace — all she served through years of significant health challenges — and some of the lessons learned along the way. If you are dealing with grief — or want to better understand and support others — please buy, read, and share Amanda and Grace's book. It will give you more tools and insights into the Atonement of Jesus Christ to find hope and peace in your life and help others. This is one of the most powerful podcasts we've done on this subject. Thank you Amanda for being on the podcast. I learned so much from you. I’m so sorry Grace and Bennett are gone. I’m grateful for your work to give others hope. You are making a huge difference in our world. You are awesome. Links: Amazon: https://a.co/d/0gDcLhBk Amanda’s website: https://amandawilkinsonspeaks.com/ Resources from Grace: BYUtv interview (start at 8:32): https://www.dev-byutv.org/e9313bb2-69ee-4174-b6bf-acbd8a97128e/promptings?player-open=true&content-id=e9313bb2-69ee-4174-b6bf-acbd8a97128e Strive to Be reel: https://www.instagram.com/reel/DCjp4YFRtNt/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link&igsh=MzRlODBiNWFlZA== Gracelyn's recorded music: https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=gracelyn+wilkinson
Transcribe →Episode 887: Javier Aguilar, Bisexual BYU Student, Non-English Focused LGBTQ Podcast
May 500:59:43Tap to summarizeMy friend Javier “VJ” Aguilar (RM, from Mexico/Texas, Age 25, Current BYU Student) joins us to share his story. Javier talks about his journey to understand his sexual orientation and come out to family in a culture that is very different from the United States. Javier talks about the difficult conversations with his parents raised in a culture where this is compared to additions that can be “cured”. Javier—who has grace and loves his parents—talks about his journey to accept/love himself, find hope during deep depression, and find support. Once Javier removed the shame and accepted himself, he talks about his desire to help others—from a deep place of love. He talks about leading the Rexburg Pride parade and also start a podcast. The podcast focus is queer LDS stories where English is a second language. Javier talks about their work to name the podcast—finally ending up with “One More Seat at the Table”. Love this name! Please listen/share this podcast and connect with Javier’s podcast (see show notes). Thank you Javier to being on the podcast. You are brave and your work (along with your friends) is so needed in our community. Links: Javier’s Instagram: @vj_ag00 Podcast on Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/un-lugar-m%C3%A1s-en-la-mesa/id1821754247 Podcast on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/25J076HVloGCw7PADv10v5?si=DEm_xgz7SNq2V1zMXpFV4w
Transcribe →Episode 886: Stephanie, Life Story Through Music
May 300:58:49Tap to summarizeMy friend Stephanie (early 50s, active LDS) joins us to bravely share her story: Abuse survivor, early trauma Attempted suicide survivor Disfellowshipped Understanding and solving addictions Same-sex attraction Journey being active, not active, and now active in the Church Deep testimony of the Book of Mormon and God Stephanie frames her life story in music albums she has produced: “We Were Light Once Weren’t We” “Whisper To The Trees” “Still True” “The Long Way Home” The Mountain Moved (single)” Stephanie is one of our bravest guests—bravely sharing her story to help others walking difficult roads—and giving us all better insights to help others. Thank you Stephanie for being on the podcast. You are awesome. Links: Aurora Driftworks Albums: Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/artist/3YsYnjjb1z6RkNqSQAkyJS?si=beygMf0gT0OyaFMCfHltOw Apple Music: https://music.apple.com/mx/artist/aurora-driftworks/1865623115 Aurora Driftworks on YouTube: https://music.youtube.com/channel/UCJz02CqrcO0QfPKf4j_DZpA
Transcribe →Episode 885: Emily Groves, Age 18, Lesbian, Blind, Super Brave, Episode Two
May 100:51:13Tap to summarize**Note: In this episode, Emily talks about being blind. In her prior episode (877), Emily talked about being a Lesbian** My friend Emily Groves (student at Boise State University, doubling in bio and computer science, active LDS) joins us to share her story. This is a physical disability—not a intellection one About her disability Two approaches to disability (medical and social) The treatment of disabled people (Pity, Honor, Incompetence) The temple Disability isolation Disability vs sexual orientation Cure culture Tips of interacting with disabled people Thank you Emily—I learned so much from you! I encourage everyone to listen and share this podcast to better support our disabled friends and family members. Honored to have you on the podcast, Emily. You are a remarkable person! Links: Emily’s e-mail: emilygroves00@gmail.com
Transcribe →Episode 884: Greg Prince Book “Gay Rights and the Mormon Church”, Episode One
Apr 2801:18:21Tap to summarizeMy friend Greg Price (writer, scientist, businessman, philanthropist—see bio at: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gregory_Prince) joins us to talk about his book “Gay Rights and the Mormon Church: Intended Actions, Unintended Consequences” released in 2019. In this episode, Greg talks the history of the Church approach to homosexuality—going from the behavior model (it’s a choice) to *mostly* the biological model (it’s not a choice). Greg’s book documents when the Church started talking about this (1960’s), what was said, the impact, and how we have gradually moved to where we are today. Greg talks about these painful chapters (including when just identifying as gay would get your excommunicated and expelled for Church schools). To understand the road our LGBTQ members and their families are walking, I believe it is important to understand where we have come from—which is sobering as we learn the reality of early days and the impact of LGBTQ members and their families. Further, I think it helps our minds and hearts be open to the need to continue to bring more understand and support—as I feel we are not at the finish line as we work to expand the boarders of Zion. Episode Two will focus on the Church LGBTQ legal efforts (starting with Hawaii in the 1990s) to where we are today. Thank you Greg for being on the podcast and all your efforts to bring more understanding and support for LGBTQ Latter-day Saints and their families. Links: Greg’s Book on Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08P7Q8QZB
Transcribe →Episode 883: Daniel Carter and Devan Jensen, New Church Hymn “Long Ago, Within a Garden”
Apr 2601:06:55Tap to summarizeMy friends Daniel Carter and Devan Jensen join us to share the story behind the beautiful new hymn “Long Ago, Within a Garden,” with text by Devan and music by Daniel, written in 1999 and added in February 2026 to Hymns—For Home and Church (no. 1210). Daniel, who worked in the Church Curriculum Department for 27 years before retiring in 2016, opens up about his personal journey. After coming out as gay, he made the decision to resign his membership—not out of anger, but as a step toward healing and “returning to love.” He shares moving insights about his path to self-acceptance, grace, peace, and his deep respect for others. Daniel is now married to his husband, Gale, and continues to express love for his Latter-day Saint roots and community. Devan, an active Latter-day Saint who worked alongside Daniel, reflects on their friendship and creative collaboration. They share their perspectives on the meaningful process of bringing this hymn to life. Elder Gérald Caussé Plays the Piano and Speaks About New Hymn, in Versailles, February 2026 (see show notes). The podcast then shifts as Daniel shares about his decision to resign his membership from the Church—and how that was not out of anger but his path to “heal and return to love.” Daniel shares his love for his Latter-day Saint roots and his community. Daniel talks about his journey to find love, self-acceptance, grace, peace, and respect for others—incredible moving insights. Devan talks about his support for his friend and their work together to create this song. This episode is really twofold: The inspiring story of the creation of a new hymn that will bless many lives Daniel’s deeply personal journey toward hope, acceptance, and peace—and their lasting friendship Thank you, Daniel and Devan, for your music, your honesty, and your example of being peacemakers. Your story helps us stay connected as one human family. Links: Link to hymn: https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/media/music/songs/long-ago-within-a-garden?lang=eng About the hymn: https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/manual/sacred-music-gospel-study-resource-pilot/1210-long-ago-within-a-garden?lang=eng Elder Gérald Caussé: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X8Lvr2sFzDE Daniel’s YouTube on “Psalms from the Ruins: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bnLqw5DBApQ&list=RDbnLqw5DBApQ&start_radio=1 Daniel's bio page: https://www.danielcartermusic.com/bio Daniel’s earlier podcast (episode 299): https://soundcloud.com/user-818501778/episode-299-daniel-carter-lds-composer-and-music-department-employee-same-sex-marriage Devan’s inspiration for the hymn: https://devanjensen.blogspot.com/2016/02/long-ago-within-garden.html Devan’s earlier podcast (episode 446): https://soundcloud.com/user-818501778/episode-446-devan-jensen-latter-day-saint-media-and-publishing-association Devan’s upcoming Latter-day Saints in Publishing, Media and the Arts conference (Oct 15-17, 2026): https://ldspma.org/2026-ldspma-conference/ (use discount LISTENLEARNLOVE26 for a 20% discount)
Transcribe →