Podcast
Listen, Learn & Love Hosted by Richard Ostler
Hosted by Richard Ostler · EN
Welcome to our podcast!
My name is Richard H. Ostler and I am a native of Salt Lake City, small business owner, married father of six with several grandchildren. I believe in and am deeply committed to the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and want it to work for a wider group.
I am the author of three books:
“Listen Learn and Love: Embracing LGBTQ Latter-day Saints” published in 2020 available at Amazon (amazon.com/dp/1462135773)
“Listen Learn and Love: Improving Latter-day Saint Culture” published in 2022. The book explores who we can do better to help all Latter-day Saints feel more welcome, needed and a feeling of belonging in our congregations. Available at Amazon (amazon.com/dp/1462139566)
“Listen Learn and Love: Building the Good Ship Zion” released in Sept 2023. The book explores additional topics to help all Latter-day Saint feel welcome and needed on the Good Ship Zion. Available at Amazon (amazon.com/dp/1462145280)
The purpose of all three books is to help us better create Zion by helping more feel welcome, a sense of belonging, and needed in our congregations.
Proceed from the books go the Stockton Power Memorial Scholarship (www.standingforstockton.com) in honor of Stockton Powers a gay Latter-day Saint teenager who died of suicide in 2016. Everything I do is a self-funded labor of love ❤️
I am the author of two Ensign articles:
‘How the Savior’s Healing Power Applies to Repenting from Sexual Sin’ (August 2020/YSA Digital Only) www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/ensign/2020/08/young-adults/how-the-saviors-healing-power-applies-to-repenting-from-sexual-sin
‘7 Tips for Overcoming Pornography Use’ (October, page 72) www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/ensign/2020/10/young-adults/7-tips-for-overcoming-pornography-use.
This podcast is designed to discuss some more complicated issues in our church to help all of us better “listen, learn and love” so we can minister in a more effective way to all of our Heavenly Parents’ children.
Podcasts are indexed by category at listenlearnandlove.org/podcasts
Thank you for joining us. You can't donate to this podcast. There are no sponsors. But you can leave a review/rate the podcast on the platform you are listening and/or leave a review at Deseret Book/Amazon on my books.
With love, Richard 'Papa' Ostler ❤
Twitter: twitter.com/Papa_Ostler
IG: www.instagram.com/papa_ostler
Facebook: facebook.com/richard.ostler.5
Substack: https://substack.com/@papaostler
E-mail: richard@ostlergroup.com
72episodes
Episodes
Newest firstAll episodes
Episode 882: Jeff Strong, New Book “Torn: Why People We Love Are Leaving the Church and What We Can Learn From Them”
Apr 2401:13:53Tap to summarizeMy friend Jeff Strong (married father of five, grandfather, former mission president, retired senior executive consumer goods) join us to talk about his new book. Jeff introduces his book with the story of his son Cale leaving the MTC and then leaving the Church—and Jeff’s desire to better understand. Jeff’s book (with a forward from Steve Young) focuses on: Conducting the largest LDS focused study on disaffiliation (20,000 respondents + interviews) About 40% of those that were active in 2000 have left the church 25 years later The “four patterns” that emerge from the data—super insightful Importance of culture—needs to nourish and create belonging—and how we can do better “It isn’t about lower standards; it’s about more love” Framing of the tension—four areas Powerful story of reconciliation with his son Cale Jeff’s book is so needed in our community—bringing the data forward and then framing it a way that gives us tools and insights to do better. I encourage everyone to read and share this book—and consider what we can do better to create the culture/belonging that Jeff’s talks about in his book. Thank you Jeff for writing this book and being on the podcast. You are making a huge difference for good in our community. Links: Jeff’s website: www.tornbyjeffstrong.com Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=61588509745251 Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/tornbyjeffstrong/ Steve Young’s Root talk: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gpMJkBbTqB0
Transcribe →Episode 881: Duane Jennings, Longtime LGBTQ Advocate, Author
Apr 2201:02:30Tap to summarizeMy friend Duane Jennings (gay, same-sex marriage, mid-60’s, RM from South Africa, Affirmation Leader for 15+ years, author “Stumbling Blocks and Stepping-Stones”) joins us to share his story including: · Journey to understand and accept his sexuality · Serving a mission · Anger and asking God about his sexuality “Told it is OK” · Got involved in Affirmation “Help people spiritually heal” · Been with his husband for 20+ years. · Friends most of the “September Six”—Lavina Fiending Anderson (died in Oct 2023) edited his book · “Stumbling Blocks and Stepping-Stones” Vol 1 and Vol 2 maybe the most comprehensive analysis of all things LDS/LGBTQ through 2016 · How to get a copy of Duane’s book Thank you Duane for being on the podcast and especially for all your work over a few decades to bring more understanding and support for our LGBTQ friends. You’ve made a huge difference for good. Honored to have you on the podcast. You are a good man. Links: Duane’s e-mail: UtahSoulforce@aol.com. Duane’s Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/duane.jennings.2016 Duane’s Book Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/LatterdaySteppingStones/
Transcribe →Episode 880: Eli McCann, New Book “We’re Thankful for the Moisture”
Apr 2000:57:10Tap to summarizeMy friend Eli McCann (lawyer, University of Utah Law School adjunct professor, Equality Utah and The Road Home board member, married to husband Skylar, father) joins us to talk about his new book published called “We’ve Thankful for the Moisture, A Gay Guy's Guide to Mormon Faith, Family and Fruit Preservation” Thank you Eli for being on the podcast and sharing about your new book—which is a reflective book—along with some humor—on our unique Mormon culture. I encourage everyone to listen to Eli’s podcast and check out his book. Thank you to our friends at The Salt Lake Tribune and Signature Books for making this book possible. Thank you Eli for all your good work in our community to build bridges and help others. Your work brings a smile to my face. You are a beautiful family. Links: Eli’s Book at Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/Were-Thankful-Moisture-Mormon-Preservation/dp/B0GLSLKYRM
Transcribe →Episode 879: Josh Otani, Therapist To Heal from Sexual Shame, Betrayal Trauma, Etc
Apr 1700:57:51Tap to summarizeMy friend Josh Otani (Master’s Degree in Marriage and Family Therapy from Utah State University and a Bachelor’s in Psychology with a minor in Family Life from Brigham Young University; active LDS) joins us to talk about: * How to build a healthier tools and perspectives about the sexual part of ourselves * Untangling shame from our sexual part—not something that needs to be “covered up” * It’s beautiful, inherent, and life giving * Thoughts are part of our experience—be curious—not your identity * Agency is after our thoughts—act within our value system * Working through betrayal trauma (ourselves and our role to help others) * Developing “safety and security” in a marriage comes at a price—the price of being vulnerable * Discussion of how to create a culture of vulnerability * Being a peacemaker—fresh perspective This is a super powerful episode to talk sexual shame and how to develop better tools and perspectives to do better. I wish I had listened to a podcast like this a long time ago—before becoming a parent and in my church assignments. I could have done such a better job to help reduce shame and a much more positive perspective on their road to recovery. Thank you Josh for being on the podcast. You are doing much good in our community. You give me hope. Links: For anyone who would like to connect, feel free to reach out or schedule a 20-minute consultation through the following: Website: https://bigvalleytherapy.com/ Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/bigvalleytherapy/ TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@big.valley.therapy?lang=en Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=61578825803249 Psychology Today: https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/therapists/porn-addiction-betrayal-trauma-josh-otani-sandy-ut/1252682 If you’re a church leader, please don’t hesitate to reach out if you’d like me to come speak with you personally or present to a group (youth, Elders Quorum, etc.).
Transcribe →Episode 878: Andy and Stephanie Pedersen, Andy’s Talk In Church About Supporting LGBTQ Latter-day Saints
Apr 1400:41:34Tap to summarizeMy friends Andy and Stephanie (LDS parents of 4; living in Vancouver, Washington) join us to share their story. Andy starts with the talk he gave in Church using the line “other circumstances may necessitate individual adaptation” from the Family Proclamation to talk about how to better love and support LGBTQ Latter-day Saints. It is a powerful talk—one of the best I’ve heard on addressing this important topic—using church leader quotes, Christ teachings, and church resources. Andy received only positive feedback on the talk. Stephanie and Andy then have a discussion around the process to write the talk and things they are doing to be allies in their circle of influence (including starting a local gathering group) to support LGBTQ Latter-day Saints and those who love them. If you are looking to talk about this subject (in church, family, etc) please listen to and share Andy’s talk. It will give you tools, insights, and church quotes to talk about this subject. And if you are LGBTQ, I believe Andy’s talk and the work Andy and Stephanie are doing will give you hope. Thank you Andy and Stephanie for being on the podcast and all you are doing to create Zion. You give us all hope. Links: Lift and Love Gathering Groups: https://www.liftandlove.org/gatherings Life and Love Gather Conference (Nov 2026): https://www.liftandlove.org/gather Church Resources You May Not Know About Podcast with Barry Donakey, All Out in the Open S7 E48: https://youtu.be/7Nqs3mk5ZyY?si=-DjlM449wWbSOX6K
Transcribe →Episode 877: Emily Groves, Age 18, Lesbian, Blind, Super Brave
Apr 1100:54:51Tap to summarize**Note: In this episode, Emily talks about being lesbian. In a future episode, Emily talks about being blind** My friend Emily Groves (student of Boise State University, doubling in bio and computer science, active LDS) joins us to share her story. * Journey to understand and accept being lesbian * Break from religion * Coming back to religion—super powerful experience with God confirm she is lesbian * Coming out to her Patriarch prior to her Patriarchal blessing (positive experience) * Coming out to others—possible family reactions * How her feelings about the church vacillate—but trying hard to make it work—loves being in the Church * Work to find/accept her path and grace for others choosing a different path * Probably will marry a woman someday * Open to serving a mission, open to getting endowed—and thoughts around these two decisions Thank you Emily for your courage to share your story. You are awesome—and wise beyond your years. Honored to have you on the podcast. You story and insights help all of us better love, understand and support others. You have a great life ahead of you! Links: Emily’s e-mail: emilygroves00@gmail.com
Transcribe →Episode 876: Gabby Rich, Lesbian Latter-day Saint, Teacher, Age 28
Apr 801:07:50Tap to summarizeMy friend Gabby Rich (Brazil RM, BYU-Idaho graduate, day care teacher, from Anacortes, Washington) joins us to bravely share her story: * Grew up “goody 2 shoes” Mormon * “Shame cannot survive being spoken” * Kissed her last mission companion * Chose not to take the sacrament day of her mission homecoming * Believed she was straight—dated guys * Strong interest in a guy who “would be the answer to all my problems” * Broke off relationship—downward spiral of anxiety * Finally accepted being attracted to girls * Started to come out (some good and some not so good responses) * "Was still valuing others’ perceptions of me—versus living authentically" * UVU institute class for queer members—super helpful in her journey * Parents became great allies * Started dating girls—everything clicked * Wants to “find a girl who would share my same desire to maintain a relationship with Heavenly Father and works to becoming more Christlike” * Helpful advice received from others * Hopes for the future Thank you Gabby for your courage to share your story. I learned so much from you. Your brave/honest/vulnerable story will help others believe God loves them and find more hope. You are awesome. You have a great life ahead of you! Links: Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/gabrielle.rich.73 Instagram: @richgabrielle
Transcribe →Episode 875: Magnum Davis, Gay Latter-day Saint, Age 18
Apr 601:30:01Tap to summarizeMy friend Magnum Davis (High School Senior/Utah County, out to family/friends for over 3 years) joins us to bravely share his story: * Painful Jr. High Experience—always being asked if he was gay * Mom’s support during these years * Starting to come out in early High School years—“felt freeing” * Coming out to entire family—“each time I told someone, I grew” * Great family support over the years * Believing can’t be gay and Mormon—initially felt like he had to choose one * Dating boys—keeping communication open with parents * Difficult Bishop experiences—but giving grace * Breaking point—“I had to break for God to build me into something better” * Seeing and working through deep rooted shame—helpful therapists * Love conquers everything * Love he feels from his Heavenly Parents and his Savior * “Being gay is a spiritual gift” Thank you Magnum—one of our youngest guests—for being on the podcast to share your story. Respect for your courage to share your story out of a desire to help other feel hope. Your story helps so many. You are a good man with a wonderful future. Links: Instagram: @magnummiles
Transcribe →Episode 874: Soren Nielsen, Gay Latter-day Saint, Recent RM
Apr 201:26:36Tap to summarizeMy friend Soren Neilsen (age 21, Sacramento California RM, from Michigan, University of Utah student) joins us to share his story: * Realizing he was different—not attracted to girls * Working through internalized homophobia and shame * Hurtful things said about gay people while growing up * Coming out to Bishop (good experience) * Gay LDS friend—friend throughout his mission—offered love, acceptance, and support * Decision to serve a mission * Coming out to both mission presidents (generally good) * Coming out to companions and generally the whole mission (generally good) * “God wants me to use my sexuality to help others come unto Christ” (I thought I could add that there is unity in our differences) * Deep testimony of our Heavenly Parents and our Savior—and His atonement (D&C6:36) * Personal revelation * Feeling his best path forward is to marry a man and build a life/family together with Christ as the foundation Thank you Soren for being on the podcast to share your story. You are brave. Thank you for helping so many people come unto Christ during your mission and for the many lives you blessed. Love your testimony/love of Christ and how He wants to help all of us. You are a good man with a wonderful future. Honored to have you on the podcast. Links: Instagram: @sojonie1 Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/soren.nielsen.632826
Transcribe →Episode 873: Kade Smith (gay, overcoming addictions) and Terri Smith (Kade’s mother)
Mar 2901:19:03Tap to summarizeMy friends Kade Smith (age 38, lives in San Diego, married to husband Chris for 9 years) and Terri Smith (LDS married mother of 4 sons) join us to share their story. I’ve been friends with the Smith family as we lived together in the same Sandy neighborhood from about 1993-1998. Sheila and I love the Smith family. Kade shares: * Coming out at Age 18 * Moving in San Francisco and being groomed into an abuse relationship. Was vulnerable and need validation * Becoming HIV positive—told his Mom * Going “all in” with the gay community—needed belonging * Abuse, drug and alcohol addiction—suicidal, called Mom from his balcony—drive back to Salt Lake City * Long road to sobriety—being “loved back to life” * Role of Heavenly Father and Kade’s Savior Jesus Christ to help him * Importance of the Word of Wisdom * Belonging withing the sober community * Helping others. Moving forward Terri shares: * Challenges of parenting an adult child with drug/alcohol challenges * Always loving and believing in Kade * Being there for his drive back to Salt Lake City * Love of Kade’s husband Chris—“our family would not be complete without Chris” * “I love you Kade, and am proud of your life” This is a super powerful story of Kade’s long journey to be sober and do the hard work necessary to get to this point. It is a story of survival, resilience, hope, turning to God, and courage. It is also a powerful story of a mother’s love for her dear son. Doing this podcast together is super powerful—a beautiful family love story. I encourage everyone to listen and share this episode. Thank you Kade and Terri for your courage to share your story. It will help so many!
Transcribe →