Lisa Rinna

Summary

Long Winded with Gabby Windey

Guest: Lisa Rinna
Release Date: March 19, 2026
Summary by Podcast Section with Timestamps

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Overview

In this rich, candid, and often hilarious episode, Gabby Windey sits down with actress, author, and reality TV icon Lisa Rinna. The conversation delves into Lisa’s experience on The Traitors, realities of competition, friendship among reality TV personalities, life lessons on marriage and motherhood, the bizarre magic of Birkin bags, and how being authentic matters—on screen and off. With their trademark wit and openness, Gabby and Lisa unpack the realities behind heavily produced television, navigating fame, and living authentically in relationships and within oneself.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Inside The Traitors: Gender, Dynamics, and Gameplay

(03:00–11:00)

• Impressions of Key Moments: Lisa and Gabby analyze memorable moments from The Traitors, specifically contestants' manipulation tactics and the gendered assumptions underlying the game's dynamics.
  • Lisa recounts being underestimated by Colton, emphasizing how physical presence and gendered expectations influenced interactions.
  • Both discuss how trusting one's intuition and forming genuine bonds on the show was challenging but vital.

"Are you actually okay? Do you think like, obviously everything for me turns into—because I'm a woman—but do you think because I'm so...submissive towards you that I'm gonna give away my biggest...? And you're gonna be the one I'm gonna work with?"
—Gabby (01:50)

• They discuss the psychological toll and emotional exhaustion from being a traitor, highlighting empathy for other contestants.

"Mentally, physically, emotionally. I mean, you're just ready to crack. By the time I left, I was cracking."
—Lisa (07:22)

• Game Strategies: Both reflect on how the quiet players go furthest and the inherent social microcosms reflected in the show
  • Discussed how women often end up forming their own solidarities—mirroring society at large.

2. Reality TV Production: Authenticity vs. Manipulation

(37:00–40:00; 53:30–56:00)

• Lisa contrasts the Housewives franchise’s heavy-handed production with The Traitors’ hands-off approach, describing the latter as more immersive and authentic.

"They let that game play out. They really let the game play out...it’s really a miraculous thing to watch because the way they keep that production just nailed down."
—Lisa (38:09)

• Mental Health & Coping: Both share openly about the mental health challenges and the use of various (sometimes illicitly snuck-in!) medications to manage anxiety, sleep deprivation, and the adrenaline of constant competition.
  • Gabby shares how she smuggled antidepressants for The Bachelorette.

"I snuck in antidepressants to the Bachelor...I opened up a ponytail holder, I split a scrunchie, put my meds in there and sewed it back up."
—Gabby (40:32)

3. Friendships and Bonds Behind the Scenes

(11:00–16:00)

• Lisa talks about the authentic connections with fellow Traitors contestants and how that differed from her Housewives experience, where warmth was less common. Gabby gives a behind-the-scenes take on reality TV relationships.

"I really loved everybody. And I still do. You know, I didn’t have this kind of experience on Housewives...this was really nice to, like, have a moment with people and be like, I like them. You know, I feel safe with them."
—Lisa (15:17)

4. Writing, Catharsis, and Telling Your Story

(17:00–21:00)

• Lisa discusses the catharsis of telling her side of the story in her new book, the challenge of working with a ghostwriter, and how writing helped her reflect on her marriage, grief, and family life.

"You have to tell your side of the story. Everybody else was telling their side...so for me to be able to say...‘hang on, this is what happened to me and this is how I felt about it’—that felt good."
—Lisa (17:02)

5. Marriage, Advice, and Mental Health in Relationships

(21:00–27:00)

• The two swap stories and advice on achieving longevity in marriage, embracing vulnerability, and the importance of communication and mutual respect.
• Lisa’s advice: “Keep from devaluing one another...put each other almost like on a little tiny bit of a pedestal. Not kidding. Like, you have to honor that person."

6. Motherhood & Raising Daughters

(65:00–69:00)

• Lisa reflects honestly about raising teenage girls in Hollywood, the inevitability of making mistakes as parents, and the role of therapy.

"...You fuck up your kids, you can’t help it...We did something right. So whatever we did, I think they’re a reflection of something good."
—Lisa (66:32)

7. Pop Culture: Housewives, Shade, and the Art of the Comeback

(29:00–37:00)

• Gabby and Lisa dissect Lisa’s notorious shade on The Real Housewives, the cultural expectations set on women in reality TV, and the double standards for men and women.
• Lisa’s infamous quote: “Princesses care about their reputation, but queens don’t.” (35:51)

"Listen, I can press that shade button almost better than anyone…it gives me such pleasure."
—Lisa (29:20)

8. Industry Realities: Glam, Beauty Standards & Self-Care

(32:00–34:00)

• Candid details about the cost and necessity of keeping up one’s appearance in the entertainment industry, and how supportive partners make a difference.

"I put my own money...I have my own account for all my, you know, things. And that’s how it should be, right?"
—Lisa (33:44)

9. Birkin Bags, Status Symbols, and Reality TV Flex Culture

(75:00–81:00)

• A playful, revealing discussion about the cult of Birkin bags among reality stars, the economics of luxury purchases, and Lisa’s own role as a Birkin “facilitator.”

"You know, it’s something that I think people get into, especially, like, once they, like, make some money and start to get successful...It’s kind of your first little support purchase. I’m gonna buy this for myself."
—Lisa (75:27)

10. Soap Opera Life & Acting Methods

(59:00–63:00)

• Lisa shares nostalgic memories about her career in soaps, touching on the craft of acting, the grind of memorizing pages of dialogue daily, and why she prefers working without cue cards.

"You have your lines down so much that if a truck was coming at you, you could say your lines before it hit you."
—Lisa (62:52)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• "It’s lonely at the top." (10:33, Lisa on the finale of The Traitors)
• "Support me...and I make my own money for that." (33:26, Lisa on beauty standards & financial independence)
• "Princesses care about their reputation, but queens don’t." (35:51, wisdom from Harry Hamlin via Lisa)
• "I can press that shade button almost better than anyone. It’s true. And so subtly. And I...It gives me such pleasure." (29:20, Lisa on throwing shade)
• "It’s true, though, I mean, I was one of the first ones that voted for Portia...that pack mentality. I just went right for it." (56:08, Lisa on realities of reality TV groupthink)
• "We crave authenticity—just be real. Whatever that is. Be goofy. Be whatever you are. Just be it." (65:23, Lisa)

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Strong Sections with Timestamps

• Traitors gender dynamics, gameplay, and groupthink: 03:00–16:00; 53:30–56:00
• Writing and catharsis, book discussion: 17:00–21:00
• Marriage, advice, boundaries: 21:00–27:00
• Housewives shade, authenticity in reality TV: 29:00–37:00
• Industry standards & self-care: 32:00–34:00
• Birkin bags & pop culture luxuries: 75:00–81:00
• Soap opera acting & learning lines: 59:00–63:00
• Motherhood and raising daughters: 65:00–69:00

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Final Thoughts

This episode is a masterclass in blending sharp humor, vulnerability, and industry insight. Gabby and Lisa’s chemistry makes for a compulsively listenable conversation, taking listeners beneath the surface of reality TV and well into real-life themes of love, mental health, career evolution, and self-acceptance.

Highly recommended segments: The comparison of The Traitors and Housewives (37:00–40:00), Lisa’s clapbacks and shade philosophy (29:00–37:00), and her advice for surviving long marriages and raising strong daughters.

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For those looking for an engaging, honest, and at times wickedly funny deep dive into reality TV and modern life, this episode offers both wisdom and pure entertainment.

Transcript

[A]

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[C]

Portia is so funny. They got rid of her so early. And everyone makes that mistake. Especially in the beginning. Like, she was. Cause she said, whatever when I killed.

[B]

She did it three times, though. Come on.

[C]

Right?

[B]

Yes.

[C]

No, true. But I'm like, oh, she's talking about I love her, so I'll make any kind of excuse for her. But I'm like, it's a ubiquitous. You. It's a ubiquitous eye. But also, who made it? Natalie made that mistake at the end, too. But I'm like, how? I never did it. I never.

[B]

Of course.

[C]

Like, there's just a clear. Like, they. And you. Like, how are you thinking this way? Especially at the end?

[B]

I agree. I don't know. I don't. I don't buy into it. I'm like, how would you make that mistake?

[C]

Right.

[B]

That's like me saying I'm a traitor.

[C]

What?

[B]

Yeah. Like, you would never say that, except

[C]

Colton thought he could manipulate you into. My jaw was on the floor. I was like, who does he think he is?

[B]

Mine? Yes.

[C]

Like, no. And of course you wouldn't know what to say. But it's like, are you actually okay? Do you think, like, obviously everything for me turns into. Because I'm a woman, but do you think because I'm so, like, I don't know, submissive towards you that I'm gonna give away my biggest and you're gonna be the one I'm gonna work with?

[B]

Exactly.

[C]

Like, what?

[B]

I know.

[C]

I don't know. People made. I was late to watch, so I don't know if people made a big deal out of it, but, like, how dare you?

[B]

They did.

[C]

Yeah. I mean, because he's so.

[B]

Men just physically you know, he's 6 2, and he's a football player, and he's just. He's a big presence. And so when you don't expect someone to come at you like that.

[C]

Right.

[B]

I was taken aback, to be honest. I was just like, wait, whoa. This is a setup, and I better be really careful here.

[C]

And just the way he would, like, whisper to you, like, even if he would talk shit. Whispering at the round table, I'm like, who do you think? I don't know. Like, you're some kind of God that, like, we're all supposed to bow. I'm not gonna be afraid of your whisper. Yeah, no, like, no, it was. I was so bad. I couldn't. My skin was crawling.

[B]

Of all the people.

[C]

I was like, I really didn't like how he spoke to you. Yeah, I felt like it was really like.

[B]

Like to tell you who you are was really.

[C]

That. That too, which. That was such a great clapback.

[B]

Thank you.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

I tried to be cool, you know, I. I was not gonna bring a housewife there. I just wasn't gonna do it, so. So that when he tested me that way. That's a game. I was like, sorry, this is not what it's about.

[C]

No, you're not a housewife. No. And I'm an actress. And I'm an author. And I'm a mother. And I'm a wife. Lisa fucking Rena. Yeah. Our introduction. Finally. I found it with Gabby. I finally. With the queen. I know I'm with the queen. No, I'm with the queen.

[B]

The traitor's queen. Traitor queen. Yes.

[C]

How about that? You're going on vacation. You're going to Cabo to meet your significant other's family for the first time, and you'll be spending seven days together. But you only have body cons and a thong bikini. Well, you could buy a whole new wardrobe, but who has money for that? Or you could rent stuff from Nuuly and just send it back when you're done. Nuuly is a subscription clothing rental service that lets you pick six styles every month. And, you know, they have some things that are parental appropriate, unlike your closet, but for just $98 a month, you can rent for whatever you have going on, dresses and fancy stuff or just everyday pieces. Nuuly is a great value at $98 a month for any six styles. But right now, you can get $28 off your first month. When you sign up with the code Gabby, just go to n U-U-L-Y.com and enter the code gabby at signup to get $28 off your first month. That's a lot. That's n u u l y.com code gabby for $28 off your first month. Newly subscription clothing rental. Change your clothes. And now a word from our sponsors. This is the time, the time when kids benefit from reviewing key concepts and strengthening skills before assessments. And IXL helps reinforce what they're learning right now so they feel ready and capable. It's proven in all 50 states to improve grades. Students who use IXL score higher on tests. That sounds nice, doesn't it? It's trusted nationwide. One in four students in the US are learning with IXL. And IXL is used in 96 of the top 100 school districts in in the US. It's an award winning online learning platform for Pre K through 12th grade with personalized interactive lessons in math, reading, Ryan and science that adapt to each child's level and pace. So make an impact on your child's learning and get IXL now and long winded with Gabby. Wendy listeners can get an exclusive 20 off IXL membership when they sign up today at IXL. Visit ixl.com gabby to get the most effective learning program out there at the best price. Yeah, I wish I had that big. Did you get a big poster size of yourself?

[B]

Do you have one?

[C]

You didn't? Yeah, of me, but I wish I

[B]

have one of you.

[C]

But look what I have here. I love your books and your, your. This is. This is my favorite photo shoot of all time.

[B]

Really?

[C]

Oh my God. Are you kidding? Did Charlie Dennis do this?

[B]

No, he didn't. He didn't. But I've worked with Charlie and I love Charlie Dennis. That shoots great. That was. What was that? Some London magazine? I forget. But he's amazing.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

And his partner Jake is amazing for hair.

[C]

Oh wait, they're dating?

[B]

I think so.

[C]

Wait, is that the Jake? I think they live together. Okay, maybe.

[B]

I'm thinking it's a different Jake. I think.

[C]

Yes, yes.

[B]

Anyway, we digress.

[C]

Literally iconic. Obviously you're a fashion icon. Are you sick about talking about traders?

[B]

No.

[C]

Okay.

[B]

I'm not actually. Are you sick of it yet?

[C]

No, because I still like to. It kind of brought me back and like part of me was like, oh, I almost missed this. But it's so hard when you're there.

[B]

So hard when you're there.

[C]

Especially as a trader.

[B]

Oh my gosh.

[C]

No sleep.

[B]

I mean, it's brutal. Like, it's the hardest thing I've ever done.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

By far. Like, by far yeah. Mentally, physically, emotionally. I mean, you're just ready to crack. By the time I left, I was cracking.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

For sure.

[C]

Yeah. That's how our traders felt, too. At the end, Carolyn was like, I am so done with this. Because you are like, I get it. It's a game. But it's like you've. And it's impossible not to take personal. You have to.

[B]

Of course you do.

[C]

And it kind of is, like, because people use your personality. People like Colton being like this. First of all, he didn't even know you, but he's like, this isn't the Lisa Rinna. It's like, I don't think he's probably

[B]

ever even watched me on Housewives, to be honest.

[C]

Right.

[B]

Not at all. He had no idea who I was. He just played that card.

[C]

Right.

[B]

And I thought, he's never seen me before.

[C]

And it's an entirely different game. Even if you were faithful, you'd be different than, like, you were, you know, totally.

[B]

You could never be acting like a housewife if you were faithful or a traitor.

[C]

You'd go, the first Dorinda. It happened to Dorinda my season. Yes. She was like, let's her up some. It was great. But like.

[B]

But, you know, bye, bye.

[C]

You go, yeah. And then she, like, learned.

[B]

Yeah. You have to be quiet.

[C]

Yeah, you do.

[B]

As you know, the quiet ones go the furthest.

[C]

Right. I know it's kind of annoying, but it's true.

[B]

It is annoying.

[C]

And, like, that's how I was. I didn't. I mean, in the beginning, I was just having a kiki.

[B]

Right.

[C]

I'm like, there's so many fun people here. Like, they're like, how did you not know Carolyn was a traitor? I was like, I was hitting her vape constantly in the van on the way. We didn't ever talk about the game.

[B]

Exactly. That's how Dorinda was with me.

[C]

She was just.

[B]

We were just hanging out. She was like, I just felt like we were having a girls weekend.

[C]

Right.

[B]

No, same.

[C]

It's like you find the people you like and you're like, okay, I guess we have to talk about it. Yeah, but I just wanted to hang.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

Like, same with Bob the drag queen. He was so funny, so I chased him everywhere. Never talked about the game.

[B]

Hilarious. I understand that, though. It's how it can go. But when you're a traitor, you. You're always thinking, so you have that moment, but then at the back of your head, you're like, I'm a traitor. I'm a traitor.

[C]

I Gotta be careful, right? Yeah. Cause you, like, I'm sure you're, like, double paranoid. You're like, can people tell it's even in a normal conversation.

[B]

Yeah. You just. You're watching yourself all the time, I think, is what is happening. You're just, like, watching to see if you misstep, and then you forget about it, and then you're like, oh, that was fun. Wait, I have to pay attention again, you know?

[C]

Yeah. Yeah.

[B]

It's tricky.

[C]

Yeah. No, it's hard. People were like, didn't you want to be a traitor? Like, more screen time. I'm like, I can create my own screen time, and it just seems miserable.

[B]

Yeah. I mean, you could see it on Rob's face towards the end. He was suffering. You could tell. It was really, really hard for him at the end to go that extra mile to lie, to really stab people in the back. It's like. You could see it, like, took its toll on him.

[C]

Yeah. And I think after watching him win, like, not to compare everything, but our season, you know, it was a lame ending, I'll admit. It was so Kumbaya. But I'm like, whatever.

[B]

Yeah. We kind of needed this, I guess, this year. Right. Because it was Kumbaya, which is great.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

It was cute.

[C]

But we all got to celebrate together and, like, be together. That was nice, Rob. I felt like there was, like, no celebration. It's lonely at the top.

[B]

Like, it's lonely at the top.

[C]

Yeah, it is. To share someone with it.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

But I guess he just didn't care.

[B]

I don't think so.

[C]

Okay.

[B]

I mean, I think he just. He knew that he wanted to win by himself. And I understand. Like, you recruit someone.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

For a couple days, and you're like, well, no, you don't get to have half that money.

[C]

Yeah. No, he said it made sense, and he was like, why would I give $100,000 to someone you've known for three weeks? I'm like, you know what?

[B]

You can't argue with that.

[C]

You really can't.

[B]

You can't. No. I probably would have done the same thing.

[C]

Yeah. Yeah. Who did you get closest with?

[B]

I would say Dorinda and Mara and Tara. Because I had my last moments, like, locked in a room with Tara and Maura, like, the last hours before you

[C]

come down or whatever. Yeah.

[B]

Like, before, where they're, like, holding you for hours at a time. I was with those two, so I feel like I bonded very late with them at the end because I was in a room with them for, like, six. Six Hours before we went to the banquet.

[C]

Oh, yeah.

[B]

So I would say them, and then, of course, Dorinda and I just had the best time, but I bonded with everybody. Like, every time I had a moment with somebody, Right. I felt bonded for life with them. Mark Ballas, I had a. Like, three hours with in a room. And, you know, when you're, like, shut away with people, I think that's when you really bond.

[C]

Yeah. Yeah. And you need that. Yeah. It's like end of the world, kind of.

[B]

Yeah. Because you're in a car with people, right. Waiting, waiting, waiting. You. You bond with them, right?

[C]

Yeah. And, like, we're people and personable people, so it's, like, natural in us, which is also hard about the game, even voting out a faithful. And it's like, this is my friend. I remember I was in tears voting out Nikki Bella, but Dylan was up my ass. He couldn't see straight. And I knew, like, if I voted a different way, they'd be like, a traitor.

[B]

Of course.

[C]

So you, like, always have to protect yourself as a faithful or a traitor.

[B]

You really do. It's a very hard game. I mean, it looks easier when you watch it, don't you think?

[C]

Oh, totally.

[B]

Than when you're doing it. You're like, oh, this is way harder than I thought it would be.

[C]

Yeah. And the roundtables last, like, three hours.

[B]

Brutal.

[C]

And we get to see, you know, only a snippet of it.

[B]

Brutal.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Really quite brutal. I don't even know how I got through it, to be honest with you.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

I look back on it, and I'm like, Dorinda and I should have been having our blood pressure taken, like, literally after the challenges. It was so, so freaking hard.

[C]

No, the challenges were so physical. I'm gonna make sure.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

We're all recording. Okay. Yes. This is me. No, but the challenges, like. Like, kind of watching it, I figured the times you had to move the stones or the monument, I'm like, they're fake.

[B]

No, no. £75. The statue was. That we moved. Yeah. That's heavy.

[C]

It's so heavy. And that's why you have to keep those dumbass men around.

[B]

Yeah, I know. Those big ones. That's why you have to. It's true. That's where Colton came in handy.

[C]

Right?

[B]

And Mark Ballas and those guys that are just like, you know, Rob and all of them, they're. You have to have them.

[C]

You do. Because naturally. Which, again, I just like that people are like, we've heard this all before, but it is like, because it's all reality is like a microcosm of society, isn't it? So, yes, you get in there, the men take charge right away.

[B]

Right away.

[C]

You separate by gender.

[B]

Yes.

[C]

Like, it's like the men against the women. It's true.

[B]

Yes. It's so true. And you watch it play out. And you know what I found fascinating? When we picked teams, which you don't really see us doing on camera, but every time you got to pick your own teams. And there was a moment where I was like, please, would somebody pick me? Like, oh, God.

[C]

Felt like dodgeball. Yes. No, it was horrible. No, it is.

[B]

I hated that part. You know, you're like a grown ass woman and you're like, hoping somebody picks you up.

[C]

Right. And you're the most popular woman in the world. So you're like, excuse me.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

You're like, ew.

[B]

This is just like, not right. But yet here. Here we are.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Like, I'm just begging for someone to, like, put me on their team.

[C]

Right. Yes. It's like, I promise I'll do good. I'll try, Elise, but please help me. I have a good attitude, which goes a long way.

[B]

Yeah. I just might not be as burly as, you know, Natalie, who was like,

[C]

my God, I was staring at her biceps.

[B]

Unbelievable.

[C]

Yes. No, I'm like, what do you do for a workout?

[B]

Like, everything.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Like, she works out 24 hours a day almost.

[C]

Really?

[B]

Like, she is an animal.

[C]

Wow. Yeah. Because you'd have to keep it up,

[B]

eats properly, like, all the right protein, all that.

[C]

Yes.

[B]

It was fascinating.

[C]

The macros, fascinating. Every time I was like, she could squeeze my head with those biceps.

[B]

She could.

[C]

I think I kind of, like, want her to. I'm like, let's see if she can.

[B]

I love her. She's really great. That's the thing. You just really meet people that you would never get to meet.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

In life.

[C]

Right. Yeah. Because it's all different kinds of, like, reality.

[B]

People loved it.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

I really did. I really loved everybody. And I still do. You know, I didn't have this kind of experience on Housewives, you know, I didn't really come away with, like a real warm, fuzzy feeling. So this was really nice to, like, have a moment with people and be like, I like them. You know, I feel safe with them. Even though it's a game where everyone is backstabbing and lying to each other. I still felt safe.

[C]

Yes, of course. Yeah. Yeah. And I think everyone's there because they want to be there. Yes. Like, everyone wants to be On Traders.

[B]

Yes.

[C]

We're not. Of course. I was broke as fuck when I went on. I was doing vibrator ads, so everybody knows that's why I accepted the gig.

[B]

But you were very authentic and upfront about that though too. You know, you were just like, I'm broke. Where's my check?

[C]

Yeah, no, literally there was blind items where like, this reality star has no money, is begging for jobs, and then they reveal the celebrity at the end. They're like, this is Gabby Windows.

[B]

So funny.

[C]

I'm like, first of all, I just got paid. Finally.

[B]

I know, finally. I was like, where is her check, you guys? Yes, she won. Pay her.

[C]

And then they blamed it on my team. They're like, they're supposed to bill us.

[B]

What?

[C]

When has that ever been the case?

[B]

Oh, come on. Yeah, please don't get me started there.

[C]

And I swear they sent TMZ to the airport to chase me because they knew exactly when I was landing at like 8am Luckily I had my sunglasses and I was like chomping on some gum. I hadn't brushed my teeth in like days. Probably at that point getting from Scotland to bastards or to, I know, bastards. Yeah, but. But yeah, no, everyone wants to be there. You know, it's like everyone wants to be on Traders, whether it's for the money or not. And I think that creates like a fun environment versus, you know, Housewives. I read your Housewives chapter.

[B]

Yeah, I definitely go there. I mean, it's my side of the story, you know, it's my feelings, it's my take on what went down. And it was quite cathartic to write that. You know, I'm actually glad I did it, to be honest, because you have to tell your side of the story. Everybody else was telling their side of the story for the last four years. So for me to be able to see, say, hang on, this is what happened to me and this is how I felt about it. So that felt good.

[C]

Yeah, yeah. No, it's your own narrative. So, like, we should have the autonomy to kind of say, you know, your perspective. And I feel like a book is a great way to do it.

[B]

It is.

[C]

It's one sided. Nobody can talk back.

[B]

I think it's time for you to write a book.

[C]

I am. Good. Good girl. Good girl.

[B]

The World According to Gabby is how I see, like, the World According to Gabby.

[C]

But yours was like, like whatever the main things they tell you, you know, like, we want your voice to come through, blah, blah, blah. Your voice came through right away, thank God.

[B]

And that is Tricky when you have a ghost writer. Because I'm not writing my own book. Let's face it, I'm not.

[C]

No, you're a busy woman, so you have to find.

[B]

And plus, I'm not a writer, so I had to find somebody that I felt got my voice. And thank God I did. Yeah, thank God I did.

[C]

How did you find them?

[B]

I said to the book publishers that I would meet three people because I didn't want to write the book, to be honest with you. I was like, no, I already wrote a book. I'm good. And they were like, no, we think you have another side of you and another story to tell. So I was like, all right, well, set me up with three meetings, and if I like one of them, I'll do it. And luckily, I liked them all, but I really connected to dibs Bear.

[C]

Okay, cool.

[B]

And I just was like, wow. I think they get my whole voice and tone and everything. And I luckily was right.

[C]

Yeah. And sometimes, like. Because it's hard to have perspective of yourself sometimes it's like, oh, they really understand me almost in a way. Like, I. I couldn't see it.

[B]

Yeah, absolutely. And she knew my work, you know, the fan base.

[C]

You have to be a fan.

[B]

You have to be a fan, I think. And luckily, that was there, so I didn't have to, like, do all this backtracking.

[C]

Yeah, right.

[B]

You know.

[C]

Yeah, they knew. They knew all the stories. Did you feel like the book in general was cathartic?

[B]

Totally.

[C]

Yeah. There's a chapter on grief.

[B]

Yeah, there's.

[C]

Yeah, it's.

[B]

You know, it's almost too like a. Like a snapshot of the last, say, 35 years of my life and my life with Harry and, you know, having the kids and raising them. And I think for him, you know, he read the book and he was tiri a lot, and I thought that was really great because he got to live our life through the book. Yeah, it definitely told that story.

[C]

And you guys are so sweet with each other. Like, you're like, you know, Hollywood couples. It's unheard of for this long. And it's so true.

[B]

It's true. We got really lucky.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

I would say.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Because, you know, I'm his third wife. It's not like he's old. Hit it right out of the, you know, gate.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

And so I think he.

[C]

Third time's a charm.

[B]

Third time's a charm. Finally. Finally.

[C]

Yeah. No, but it's. And I read some of that chapter, too, how it took him a while to, like. Yes, like, want to say, you know, I want to be married now. Was it hard for you? Yes, it was.

[B]

It took, like, five and a half years of dating and, you know, I could have easily said, fuck it, man.

[C]

Right.

[B]

I'm out of here. But I knew he was a good man, and I knew he'd make a good father. I think that's why I hung in there.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Because he was really fucked up when I met him, you know, and vulnerable.

[C]

And that's probably why I was in relationships.

[B]

I was attracted to him because he was vulnerable and because of, you know, his past. And he was pretty fucked over. And it took him. It took him all that time to kind of get to a place where he was like, you know what? I think I can do this again. And I don't know how I gave him the time. I must have just known that he was worth waiting for.

[C]

Right.

[B]

To be honest.

[C]

No. And that's like your, like, instinct and gut, and we all have to listen to that.

[B]

I have to.

[C]

You know, and if you're like, we are going to be together forever. Marriage can come, you know, when it comes.

[B]

Yeah. So luckily, I didn't just say, fuck you, you bounce.

[C]

Yeah. Literally can find another one. Yeah.

[B]

Luckily I stayed because.

[C]

Oh, my God. In those days. Days. I mean, five and a half years

[B]

is a long time.

[C]

It is.

[B]

You know, and you're like, you know her. Get off the pot.

[C]

Totally. I mean, lesbians would never.

[B]

Would never.

[C]

No. Oh, my God.

[B]

Too long.

[C]

Yes. If you're dating for five and a half years, it's like, break up.

[B]

Right.

[C]

Like, then you guys don't love each other.

[B]

See.

[C]

Sorry. Exactly. Someone's got to tell you.

[B]

Yeah, exactly. So luckily, we. We didn't go the lesbian route. Well, but.

[C]

And, like, vulnerability is hot. Like, it was probably so hard for you to deal with because he was so traumatized, but especially for men, when you're guards down and you learn how to be emotional, it was, like, attractive. Oh, my God. Right?

[B]

You're just like, oh, my God, you're so attractive. Because regular Harry Hamlin probably would have pushed. I would have been like, no, no, no. Too much.

[C]

Right?

[B]

Right. Yes. Too much masculinity. Too much star power. I would have just been threatened. Probably buy it or not ready for it.

[C]

Right.

[B]

But because he was vulnerable, I felt safe.

[C]

Yeah. Yeah. And so important because it's such a scary dynamic. Even, like, it does kind of remind me of Robbie when we got married. And so it came up on our Wikipedia, you know, And I'm like, oh, I want to be one of those couples that's like, married and I feel like I could get teary eyed. 20, 25, then there's a dash and then that's it, you know, there's no date on the other side of it.

[B]

Isn't that amazing? I know, it's so rare, right?

[C]

It really is. But I'm like, I know we can do it.

[B]

You can do it.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

But it takes work, you know, it does take work. And all the different evolutions that you'll go through in your life, it's like, how do you sustain the relationship through that? Yeah. So it does take work at times.

[C]

What advice would you give newlyweds?

[B]

Gosh, you know, a lot of people ask me that. I think, first of all, enjoy this time. You know, you're enjoying each other. You're so still getting to know each other.

[C]

I feel like we're still dating.

[B]

You are still dating. It's early stages and so enjoy it. And then you gotta keep. I think the key is you've gotta keep from devaluing one another because.

[C]

Yes, I saw you write that.

[B]

What happens after a while is the honeymoon's over, the newlywed stuff's gone, and you start to go, oh, that bugs me. I don't like that. Or you see something that you're like, wait a second. And then you start to like, go down that road. You can't go down that road.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Once you go down that road, you can't come back. Can't come back to be really careful and put each other almost like on a little tiny bit of a pedestal.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Not kidding. Like, you have to honor that person in the relationship and not tear it down because it's really easy to start going like this.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

And then you're down the rabbit hole.

[C]

Yeah. Yeah. No, it's so true. And it's so easy probably to get there, but it's like they feel the same way about you.

[B]

Yeah. We all have things too. We all have things.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

But you just, you know, you could say, like, okay, that just pissed me off.

[C]

Right.

[B]

Acknowledge it, but don't take it. And then like, start counting. Okay. Like that. And then hold that grudge. And then hold this grudge that once you do that, you can. You gotta stop yourself and go to therapy.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

You know? Cause it could happen.

[C]

Yeah. No, so true. Yeah.

[B]

So, you know, you gotta just hope, like, nobody cheats, nobody does anything that like big things really puts a fucking wrench into it.

[C]

Right.

[B]

Cause then you have to deal with that.

[C]

Oh, God, that's not fun. No. Terrible. I don't know how people come back from that.

[B]

I don't either. Cause it's such a. You know, it's a lack of trust.

[C]

Right.

[B]

It's really about trust.

[C]

Yeah. And you'd always be wondering, always want to go through the phone. I mean, I go through the phone anyway, and Robbie's never gave. She would never.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

Like, people say that and they're like, oh, that's the one that's gonna do it. But it's like anyone who knows Robbie, like, knows she would never.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

And I'm always peering at her phone, and she lets me. She's like, you want to see? I'm like, who the are you texting?

[B]

And if that's what you need to do, then do that. You know?

[C]

Like, that's not the advice that I'm giving.

[B]

Not necessarily.

[C]

But if you need to.

[B]

And hopefully you'll get to the point that you then don't need to.

[C]

Yeah. And I mean, I don't think I need to. I guess I'm just naturally nosy.

[B]

Maybe that's okay. You know what? That's fair.

[C]

Right. But I know it would never, like, be anything I have to worry about. I guess I'm a little jealous. Like, in this day.

[B]

That's okay.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

That's okay. As long as you admit it and say I'm a little jealous or I feel this about. It's about communication, I guess, is what's coming out as I'm talking about it. You have to communicate whether it's to going good, whether it's bad. It's when we keep things back, then they start to fester.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Then all of a sudden, it becomes a whole nother thing. So that's where it gets tricky.

[C]

And then you, like, blow up for no reason. Exactly. You're like, I don't even know. I have, like, abandonment issues. Bad. But we both travel for work, so I always feel like I'm being abandoned.

[B]

Okay.

[C]

And then when she comes back, it's like. Like, no holds bar. I'm mad about something.

[B]

Well, at least you know that.

[C]

You know what I mean?

[B]

You know it. So you can talk about it. If you didn't know it, know it, and you were unconscious about it, that would be an issue.

[C]

Right.

[B]

But you're aware. You're like, I have abandonment issues.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

This is the deal.

[C]

Take it personal. You got. You have to bring home the dough. Sure. But, like, why can't we do it together?

[B]

Right.

[C]

But it is. Do you. I feel like in our first year of marriage, our hardest part has been, like, being away from each other. The long distance.

[B]

Yeah. It's hard. Harry was just filming in Vancouver for five months.

[C]

Oh, wow.

[B]

And you know, no matter what, no matter if you've been together one year or 29 years, it's still. You're not living your life together.

[C]

Right. Yes.

[B]

And, you know, then, like, he would come home and then he would leave. So then it's like the readjustment period. He's back for three days and then he's gone again.

[C]

Right.

[B]

So it's like constant ebb and flow, flow and readjustment, and it's just not easy. It's not easy.

[C]

No, no. It's really not. I think Julia Roberts said it. Maybe I didn't even know she was married.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

I've been married a long time. Yes. And her advice was like, because, you know, she travels. Maybe he does too. Apologies.

[B]

He's a cinematographer.

[C]

Okay.

[B]

Photographer. So he would be probably traveling a lot also.

[C]

Yes. Hot to date, like, you know, behind the scenes guys.

[B]

Yes.

[C]

Yeah. But I'm like, I could go on about that, but everyone knows my wife, who's very friendly. Love your wife so much.

[B]

I love your wife so much. As you know.

[C]

She's the best love. Yeah.

[B]

So special.

[C]

Yeah. Really, she's like one special.

[B]

Yeah, she's special.

[C]

Oh, yeah. She really is.

[B]

Really. I just. The moment I met her, I was like, I love you forever.

[C]

Totally. That's how everyone is. I mean, she is who she is. And she's so authentic that it's like so attractive, literally.

[B]

Isn't it?

[C]

Yes. I'm like, I don't even know if I'm a lesbian at this point or if I'm just like, my sexuality is her.

[B]

Right.

[C]

That's what she always says. She's like, I'm gabbysexual, but it's like she could turn anyone gay. You know who loves her? Heather Gray. Gay. Her last name is Gay?

[B]

Yes. Okay. That's hilarious.

[C]

No, she told me at Las Culturista, she was standing behind me. She was. Was like, I would. Your wife.

[B]

I'm like, wow.

[C]

Okay. Yeah. I'm like, wait a second. That's my wife.

[B]

That's like a lot of information. Right? Maybe too much.

[C]

Yes. And like, you're not gonna. It goes both ways.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah.

[C]

You think she's gonna. You.

[B]

Sorry.

[C]

I mean, she does love an older woman. Does she? Yeah.

[B]

Okay.

[C]

Yeah. She was like, kind of groomed.

[B]

That was just a little bit shady, which I love. Just a slight bit shady. In the housewife world, that would be like, shade. She likes an older woman.

[C]

She likes an older woman. Yeah. Me and my interview.

[B]

That would be housewife shade.

[C]

You have great shade.

[B]

I do. And I can notice great shade.

[C]

So. No. Yes.

[B]

That was really good.

[C]

And I feel like you know when to do it. You do. And you know how to hit them where it hurts. Like, I was reading the housewife chapter and you're like, LVP has still never gotten over me calling her house a disco go ball.

[B]

It's so true. Listen, I can press that shade button almost better than anyone. It's true. And so subtly. And I. It gives me such pleasure. I have to say.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

It's pleasurable, Toad.

[C]

I mean it. Like, I can imagine being a housewife cannot. But having permission kind of. To be an asshole.

[B]

Kind of. Yeah. Because they say, think out loud and, you know, some of your thoughts are.

[C]

That's crazy. I've never been told that.

[B]

Imagine that. That was my direction when I first met with the producers, they said, here's the thing. You have to think out loud.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

And I'm like, if I think out loud, I will. They will lock me up. Right.

[C]

You're not even thinking out loud about them. I'd be like, yeah, when did I take my medication?

[B]

So many things imagined.

[C]

Right.

[B]

But you know, I'm very good at taking directions. So I was like, okay, that's what I'm going to do. Hence, eight years later, you're like, oh, yeah. Maybe that's why I got in so much trouble. I just did what I was told.

[C]

Right. But if they're telling everyone that, then you're like, okay, everyone's doing it.

[B]

I hope.

[C]

Maybe they didn't.

[B]

Maybe they just told me.

[C]

Yeah, right. Which is even me worse. Yes. Being like a new cast member. But yeah, no, I was. I was kind of surprised. Not. I mean, we don't. Watching the show. Of course. Like, you do think everyone's friends, you know, deep down they're not. But like the parasocial in you.

[B]

Yeah. And some of us are friendlier than others, you know? You know, some of the people, hopefully.

[C]

Right.

[B]

I did.

[C]

Yeah. No, you're in. You having Erika Jane's back when all of that happened, when it was hard for you, like, that brought tears to my eyes. Like, we need a friend like that.

[B]

You need a friend like that in

[C]

front of the camera, not just behind.

[B]

No, no, no. And I. I took a lot of shit for that.

[C]

I was surprised.

[B]

Wow. Did I take shit for that. But I.

[C]

What were they saying, I mean, you name.

[B]

I mean, death threats. Oh, my God, Lavette, you're so horrible. You should die. The fact.

[C]

Because of what her husband did.

[B]

You know she did it. Why would you stick up for her? Like, on and on and on. When you believe someone, when somebody tells you, I did not know about this. Yeah, I believed her.

[C]

We believe Bernie Madoff's wife didn't know. I mean, what's.

[B]

I mean, that's a little bit different, maybe.

[C]

I don't know.

[B]

I don't know.

[C]

But. But, like, I mean, on a bigger level.

[B]

Yeah. I mean, I truly believe that she did not know, because I also saw their relationship and how he treated her. And I just put two and two together and went. She had no idea where the money was coming. She got a credit card.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

That was it.

[C]

Right. And it's easy. Not. Robbie and I file separately. Our finances are separate. We're not. Of course. You'll be like, how much was that? I'm like, none of your business. But, you know, it's my money to spend at the med spa.

[B]

Yeah, it is. You know, I feel the same about

[C]

that, by the way. Like, laughing gas is expensive.

[B]

Yes, it is.

[C]

But you like the way I look, so.

[B]

Exactly. Yeah. My husband will tell me the same thing. He'll say, I really appreciate how you take care of yourself. And I say, good, because a real king. How about that?

[C]

Yes.

[B]

He literally came in the bathroom recently, and he said, okay, I. I looked around, and I know that there are a lot of potions and things on these counters. And instead of, like, being upset about it, he goes. I went, wow. She really takes the time to look good. And I appreciate that. And then he came and told me that.

[C]

Oh, my God.

[B]

I was like, who are you?

[C]

Right. I love that same. Because you have to. I mean, we're women. We're in the industry. The pressure.

[B]

And it's expensive.

[C]

Expensive. We deserve not even a tax break, but, like, no taxes at all.

[B]

No.

[C]

Because this is how I get my job.

[B]

That's right. Exactly.

[C]

You know, so it's like, you do have to understand, it's. It's a different standard for us.

[B]

Yeah. And I'm. I'm happy that he understands it. I really am.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

It's a big deal.

[C]

Oh, my gosh. Yeah. You know, and coming from a man and your husband, it's like you feel connected, probably. Like, this is very intimate that you. Which other people. People would look down on.

[B]

Right. Or judge.

[C]

Right.

[B]

Yeah. In a way.

[C]

Support me.

[B]

Yeah. And I make my Own money for that. You know what I mean? Like, I don't take the money out of the, you know, family pot of, like, you know, survival. I. I put my own money. Like, I have my own account for all my, you know, things.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

And that's how it should be, right?

[C]

No, Exactly. Yeah. And I'm like, I don't buy sports cars. I don't either. No. I don't have expensive. I don't even buy jewelry.

[B]

Really.

[C]

Yeah, same.

[B]

But I want a good treatment.

[C]

Yeah. Yeah.

[B]

You know, give me a good laser. That cost three grand. That's expensive.

[C]

Yes. And. But it's the highest form of self care.

[B]

I agree. You and I, we created a spa together. We have lots of fun.

[C]

Robbie will come with me to my appointments even. I mean, she'll talk. No. And she'll hold my hand. She, like, teases the nurse. The nurse brings out a needle and she's like, is that a dirty one? I'm like, how fun.

[B]

I want Robbie to come to my appointment.

[C]

No, she is the best. But walk away. Luckily, like, my nurse has the best sense of humor. We're, like, always laughing with the laughing gas.

[B]

That laughing gas, it's never enough for me, though. No, I need more.

[C]

You really gotta suck that.

[B]

I like to be put out. I like Propofol.

[C]

Give me Propofol.

[B]

Oh, my God.

[C]

When's my next colonoscopy, honey?

[B]

It's my favorite.

[C]

It's everyone's favorite. I was a nurse.

[B]

Really?

[C]

Yes. Milk of amnesia. That's what we call.

[B]

God. It's. I mean, literally, if you could, you know, mainline that as Michael Jackson did. Right.

[C]

But that's what happened.

[B]

But that's. Then bye. Bye.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

But, boy, is that a great high. Or go away, whatever it is. Because you're not high. You just go out.

[C]

I hear it's the best sleep anyone's ever gotten.

[B]

I just love it so much.

[C]

Yeah. No, I'm jealous. Robbie's getting a colonoscopy tomorrow, which means I'm basically getting one because she's gonna be up all night with that stuff. I'm like, will you sleep in? I know. Will you sleep in the guest room?

[B]

I hate that part.

[C]

But I'm an. So it's like, I gotta be there with her. But she'll probably get propofol.

[B]

Oh, she will for sure.

[C]

And I'm really jealous.

[B]

Yeah, I would be, too.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

I want another one just to get it right.

[C]

Yes. Maybe a micro dose. Right. Do you have any extra?

[B]

God, maybe they do.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Maybe they just get A little.

[C]

We're sounding more and more like Michael Jackson the longer we go on. I know.

[B]

Oh, well, it's all right. Our little things.

[C]

I love. Also, I read this how Harry, I think told you, like, princesses care about their reputation, but queens don't.

[B]

He said that to me. And of course, I said it right. To one of the housewives on the show.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Which.

[C]

The wisdom in it. Yeah.

[B]

He's got some really good pearls that he can come out with. Yeah. The other one is expectations are resentments waiting to happen. That's a great, great one.

[C]

That's really good.

[B]

She says that to us, to me and the kids, constantly. Cuz how many times do you have expectations? All day long.

[C]

Yeah. Friends, your partners, your family, everybody.

[B]

Yeah, that one.

[C]

And you wouldn't need a reminder. You need a reminder all the time.

[B]

All the time. Yeah, Constantly.

[C]

Right.

[B]

So I wrote it in the book and I say it all the time.

[C]

Cuz it's true, right? Yes. We can't really have expectations on anybody. But it's hard not to.

[B]

It's hard not to. Of course.

[C]

And resentment's like such a heavy feeling. You don't want to carry it around with you.

[B]

No, no, no, no, no. Have a hit of propofol and get rid of it. Oh, I knew we would have fun, Gabby. I just knew it.

[C]

No. I can talk about drugs all day long.

[B]

You were a nurse.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Well, that's like a hard job being an nurse.

[C]

Yeah. I said. Who did I say it to? Robin from Real Housewives of Atlanta. Who was on my Potomac. Yes. Who was on my season and.

[B]

Yes.

[C]

Yeah. I mean, we're working 16 hour days plus. Don't get I'm started. The girls have to wake up earlier. We need a full face of makeup. We need our hair done.

[B]

We're doing it ourselves.

[C]

We're doing it ourselves. I know. Somebody was like, they brought glam this year. I'm like, I don't think you're allowed to.

[B]

No one brings glam. No, no.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

They don't want anybody else around because, you know, the game is so protected. That's why they don't let you have hair and makeup.

[C]

The producers don't even talk to us.

[B]

No, no, no. That. And that surprised me because Housewives, clearly there's production and there's producing and you're with the producers constantly. These producers stay back. They do not produce you.

[C]

No. They won't even like. You can't even be like, how are you?

[B]

Isn't it amazing?

[C]

Where are you from?

[B]

Isn't it amazing.

[C]

Yes.

[B]

I was shocked by that same.

[C]

Because I get close with my producer.

[B]

Me too.

[C]

They're like, kind of a nice part of the experience where you don't have to talk to everybody else and kind of can lament.

[B]

We did not have that.

[C]

No.

[B]

At all. And they let that game play out. They really let the game play out.

[C]

And it plays itself.

[B]

It. It totally does. And it's really a miraculous thing to watch because the way they keep that production just nailed down.

[C]

Yeah. And it always works.

[B]

It works.

[C]

Yeah. And it's like. Because our minds, like, you can kind of create an enemy and data out

[B]

of in two seconds in your brain.

[C]

Yeah. And you're completely wrong.

[B]

And it gets completely played out if you leave it alone. And that's what I loved about playing this game. Because we were left alone. And normally I'm not left alone.

[C]

Right.

[B]

And I loved that part of it.

[C]

Yeah. No, you guys are so meddled with in Housewives.

[B]

Beyond.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Like, Beyond. This was really quite joyous to just watch the game play out also, though, it was shocking at times. Like, of course, I didn't expect Colton to come and. And do what he did. Like, usually on Housewives, you'd have a heads up. Like, you'd have a sense of somebody's gonna do something or I always said somebody. It felt like somebody was throwing a hard ball at the back of your head.

[C]

Oh, gosh.

[B]

And when to like, you know, flinch or move.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

That's what it was like. And you didn't know that on Traders, you had to just sense it for yourself.

[C]

Right.

[B]

And that took me off.

[C]

Right. Yeah. Because if you're so taken aback all the time, it's like, you know, just living off of anxiety.

[B]

Yeah. You're literally in fight or flight that whole time.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

That you're doing that show.

[C]

No, I was not real. Oh, totally. I had the. I was taking, like, I was taking atrazidone to help me sleep, an Ativan. I woke up and took propranolol. Some of my other meds. I was like, mixing and matching. I was doing nad spray up my nose to give me like a little bit of a boost. Because it's like, same. Yeah. You're in a state of fight or flight.

[B]

You're in fight. You're adrenaline.

[C]

You have to be clear.

[B]

You have to be clear. I had to take a sleeping pill. Like, I was taking Ambien, which really felt me up. But yeah, it was like, do I not sleep or get four or five hours of sleep?

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

And Then, you know, you take your nads. I did all the same. Like, yeah, half his annex here. Like, anything, though, they had just to get you through, give that to you, because, of course, they take it all away from you.

[C]

I snuck mine in.

[B]

You did? See, I'm so stupid.

[C]

I didn't even try and sneak it.

[B]

It just had it.

[C]

It was in a blister pack because it's from, you know, Mexico.

[B]

I wish I could have been that smart. I'm. I'm like, here, look through my bags. Take all my pills.

[C]

I snuck in antidepressants to the Bachelor, which, like, I should have just gotten a prescription, but I couldn't be bothered. I opened up a ponytail holder, I split a scrunchie, put my meds in there and sewed it back up. Like, I. Oh, yeah.

[B]

I wish I talked to you before.

[C]

No. Four antidepressants that you have to have a prescription for. But it was just old, and I knew I would, and I used them. Of course you did. They came in handy. But I didn't even try that hard for traders. I had mine in Mexico from a blister pack, naturally. Because, you know my psychiatrist won't give me any benefits. Right? Of course. I'm like, okay, you have to give me some volume, or I will get it from Mexico. She's like, okay, here are two pills. Not enough.

[B]

Yeah, not enough. But never, never enough.

[C]

In the uk, the blister packs are over the counter. Oh, shoot. Philly. Yes. My security didn't look at, like, what they were or whatever. He just assumed it was, like, a Tylenol.

[B]

Live and learn. So you're lucky. I. I had to go through those fucking medics and get my freaking pills every night. Go sign it out.

[C]

Like, yeah. Now you're like, yeah, you.

[B]

I'm like, can I please have my drugs? That's all I cared about was like, please, can I? I need my pills.

[C]

Right?

[B]

You had yours? Yes. Imagine me every night. I'm like, where's the medic?

[C]

Where's the medic? Right? And you have to stay up later. That drive home. Oh, my God. And having to check in, go over your outfit the whole, like, the next day. Brutal.

[B]

Yeah. And pack it in that big, huge IKEA bag. Did you have those?

[C]

Oh, yeah. Yeah. That's what we. Yes. They're like, do you film the. We change 15 times a day.

[B]

So you need your workout for the challenge, then you need your outfit, and then you might need another outfit, and then you put it all in that bag.

[C]

Products, your makeup yeah, girl. No. It's terrifying.

[B]

Unbelievable.

[C]

Yes.

[B]

What it takes to do that show, Really.

[C]

I know, but we do it.

[B]

We did. And we did it.

[C]

Yeah. You know when you're so sick of water, you can't take one more sip of water because you're over water loaded. And your sodium must be low because you've been drinking so much water. So you reach for something else. You need a bubble. You reach for a poppy. Because sparkling water sometimes may hit, but sometimes you need a little soda to change your vibes. Poppy absolutely hits that spot with mouth watering and refreshing sodas and tons of flavors from strawberry lemon to orange to classic cola. It just makes opening up your fridge exciting. Which kind am I gonna get today? Which kind is gonna burst that flavor into my mouth and make me want to. And poppy soda has ingredients you can love. Prebiotics and 5 grams of sugar. So find poppy at your nearest retailer or get it delivered straight to your door on Amazon. Poppy sodas back. But so much better.

[D]

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[C]

Well, I just had a question for you, but it floated right away.

[B]

Shoot. Because I was busy chatting away.

[C]

Well, this is what I was gonna. Well, because obviously your outfits were amazing. Thank you. I love your, like, baggy Capri.

[B]

I did a certain look, didn't I?

[C]

No, it was all your sunglasses, which naturally, you know, Colton turned against you. But like, I love the 90s black. It's like she's always in sunglasses. I wouldn't even thought of that. Who cares?

[B]

It's fashion.

[C]

Exactly. Get a sense of style. Why?

[B]

Because you can't see my eyes all of a sudden. I'm shifty, right? No, I'd be shifty anyway. That's what I do.

[C]

If I knew we could wear sunglasses, you bet your ass.

[B]

I didn't even ask anybody or think about it. I was just like, we put looks together and we put sunglasses.

[C]

Yeah, I know. He was looking for anything. But. But you're. I was so jealous of the banquet, everyone. That was so good.

[B]

The banquet was what? I just. I just needed to get to the banquet.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Like, we didn't know when it was gonna come. Right. Cause they don't tell you when it's happening. They just said before we left, bring something like the Met Gala. Whoa.

[C]

And I was like, what were you wearing? I mean, it was gorgeous.

[B]

What was. Charlotte, Eric. Charlotte.

[C]

Okay.

[B]

Local designer here. I had worn her for a photo shoot, so I'd already worn two of her looks that were so exquisite and so beyond that. When we got this Met Gala look.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

My stylist was like, you should wear this. I was like, absolutely. I mean, it took a whole suitcase itself just to get it there.

[C]

Who cares? Worth it. But you come. Coming down the stairs, I had the chills. Yes.

[B]

That's why I didn't even care. I was like. I knew I was putting myself out there, that I was gonna do the murder.

[C]

Yeah. But I was like, the murder was seamless.

[B]

It's worth it.

[C]

But it, like, did it not. I mean, it was such a lame excuse.

[B]

It was so sad.

[C]

The kisses. I know. It's like, come on, you guys. People buying. That is so. I mean, obviously, I have your back, because you're a traitor. So it's like, I know I'm rooting, but come on. And I hope they felt dumb watching it backstory.

[B]

I hope so, too, because they were beyond dumb. Right. All I wanted to say was, it's not the kids.

[C]

It's something else. It's something else which you. Oh, my God. Did you think of that going in?

[B]

No. Oh, really? That's why I was so shocked by it.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

I just. You never think, like. I never thought long enough to, like, what could happen. I just thought, I gotta do it. Like, I just gotta get it done. And then once it's done, I was like, check.

[C]

Yes. No. It was so good.

[B]

And so when he screamed my name out, I was like, are you kidding me? And then he's like, it's the kiss.

[C]

Yeah, but you kiss everybody. I knew.

[B]

I was. Once he did that. He was. The conviction was so strong.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

It didn't matter how it happened.

[C]

Right.

[B]

His conviction. Everyone was like, oh, yes, it's Lisa.

[C]

Yes.

[B]

And then that was that.

[C]

Right.

[B]

And I knew that.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

So I was like, yeah, whatever. Okay. That's why I didn't fight so hard at the roundtable. What am I fighting for?

[C]

What are you gonna. And sometimes you just like. I mean. Yeah, I get it. But then you're, like, making yourself look like an idiot.

[B]

No, I've done that enough times in my life. I was like, I'm not gonna do it here. I'm just not.

[C]

Yeah, no, you were. You were iconic, as you always are. So Much fun to watch. Thank you.

[B]

It was fun. You know, I had a great time. I lasted way longer than I ever thought I could. Yeah. And I just. I look at it as a great, great time. I had a great time.

[C]

No, that's great. What did you think of the ending? Were you surprised at all?

[B]

No, I'm not at all.

[C]

Were you surprised? Nobody was really on Rob.

[B]

A little bit. Yeah. Because. But I knew how dumb they were to begin with.

[C]

They were so dumb. The faithful come on. And Natalie is such a good Survivor player. Right.

[B]

So good.

[C]

And she could not stick to her gut.

[B]

That's the thing that was so frustrating. They would.

[C]

They were.

[B]

They were there.

[C]

Right.

[B]

And then they talked themselves out of it.

[C]

Yes. Every round.

[B]

They just didn't want it to be true. That it was him.

[C]

Right. That's the thing. Yes. No, he's. He's the heartthrob.

[B]

I mean, they called. Yes.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Tara said, I think it's Rob.

[C]

Right.

[B]

Did she?

[C]

Yeah. Oh, yeah. And so did Johnny. He was like, it's Eric and Rob at the end. Which makes sense because Rob was really quiet in the beginning. And I know you got heat on that, too. Yes.

[B]

And then he started talking when he went after me.

[C]

Right.

[B]

But nobody noticed.

[C]

Yes. Yeah. Even with the Candace riding Rob twice, they made an excuse for that. Like, it wasn't a breadcrumb. Once traitors start turning on each other, you have to take those breadcrumbs.

[B]

They didn't look at it for one second.

[C]

No.

[B]

On your season. Much more, I think.

[C]

Yeah. Like, we looked at it.

[B]

You looked at it. At least you guys got Boston Rob out.

[C]

Yes.

[B]

Sooner. Yeah, I think.

[C]

No, totally.

[B]

People were not willing to look.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

They just thought Rob was a faithful. Period.

[C]

Right. Yeah. No, it's so surprising to me. And even, like. Yeah. His demeanor changed, which I guess I wasn't there, but even him at the fire pit, to me, he was acting so guilty. He didn't want to say it. He was so suspicious. And then Maura was genuinely stunned.

[B]

Stunned.

[C]

Like.

[B]

Like stunned. Like when she was in the breakfast room and she said, I would die. If you were a traitor, you're not a traitor. I would die.

[C]

Yeah. And then.

[B]

I mean, it's a perfect setup.

[C]

Right.

[B]

Come on. Like, she was literally. And so was Eric. I mean, I think they both. When Eric left, too, he was just shocked.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

They were shocked by it.

[C]

Yeah. No, Eric was, like, the most afraid. He really played the victim. He's like, I could never do that to anyone. I draw a line in the sand. The same thing he said about being a traitor. And he had no problem starting to lie.

[B]

Exactly.

[C]

He loved it.

[B]

He loved it. Everyone loves it. You love it. It's so fun to be a trader.

[C]

Oh, my God. Especially in the beginning, like, sneaking around and having. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Nothing's more fun, but it's like, don't be. And you know who Rob is. He turned on you. He did. He turned on Candace.

[B]

Right after me.

[C]

Sure.

[B]

Yes, Right after me.

[C]

Obviously, he's gonna turn on you. If Eric was brave, which he was. Alex was calling him a wet noodle. Like, literally. I thought he was so funny because he was so out of his element. But it's like, if you. If he was braver, he would have turned on Rob first. But everyone believes what Rob has to say.

[B]

It's truly remarkable. It was amazing to watch.

[C]

Right.

[B]

You know, to show, to continue to see it. Like the world fell in love with him.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

You know, just the whole world. Just to see that and be in the business. As long as I've been in the business, I'm fascinated by it.

[C]

Like, falling in love with, like, kind of a villain who's a man.

[B]

Yeah. They love him.

[C]

Oh.

[B]

Didn't matter what he did. No, I mean, it was remarkable to watch.

[C]

Yeah. I mean, I'm sorry. Here's the double standard. It's like, you. Yeah, he's. He's a hot dude. We need someone like that. It was kind of like. I mean, I feel like Dylan and I shared it. Thank God.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

But Dylan was the heartthrob. He could do no wrong.

[B]

Right.

[C]

He wasn't a traitor, but he was never once questioned. He was always questioning me when I was. Yes. Just as open. And it's like. Yeah. Because personality gets in a way, and they don't ever meet women with a personality. It's like, I'm on TV for a reason.

[B]

I know. Another three. Threatened by us when we have. I think men are threatened by us when we have a personality. Whether you label us a housewife or whatnot. If we stand up to them or we are more of ourselves than being meek and mild and quiet. All of a sudden, you're threatening.

[C]

Right. Then you're deceptive. Then you're a traitor. Because you're good at manipulation and lying.

[B]

Yes. And women don't get away with it, but men do. It's okay when the man does it. Right?

[C]

Right. Yeah. Because at the end, Rob was acting so sketchy, I think, and people were onto them. And the. Which, by the way, Dylan and I, like, love him. Like he, you know. Yes.

[B]

As I love Rob, you know.

[C]

Totally. But. Yeah, just like. Yeah. It's interesting to talk about, but the terrible theory of Tara and Johnny being traitors together. Why would they come out in the open and put a huge target on their back if they're traitors? And they were obviously so genuine about it. And, like, ice skating, naturally, they're gonna be BFFs. Who can do that? A triple axel.

[B]

We knew they were best friends. I mean, it's not like it was any big. I knew.

[C]

Right.

[B]

I'm like, that's no big surprise. They skate together. They've, like, grown together.

[C]

Yes, of course.

[B]

But it didn't seem threatening, like we needed to break them up. Nobody thought of that. No.

[C]

No. Because you never thought of them as traitors.

[B]

No. And even if they're faithfuls together.

[C]

Right.

[B]

How together can you be?

[C]

Yeah. It's a game that you're gonna be separated. Yeah.

[B]

It's a solo game.

[C]

Yeah. At the end of the day, totally.

[B]

So to me, I didn't even think twice about it. No.

[C]

But I'm like, people running and taking and running with this theory, which I don't know who started it. Probably Colton or some dumbass. I could not with him because he. There's always one person on the season who normally, you know, it's the heartthrob who. But we had a traitor as the heartthrob. Who wants to be the traitor hunter. They want all of, like, the responsibility. They want all the kudos. They want all of the integrity. They want the savior. And that was Colton. But he would just pick a new person every week.

[B]

Every single week.

[C]

Yeah. It's like, no, obviously you're gonna get one. Right. If you just go down the line.

[B]

And who was driving? I always said that, like, I just.

[C]

His ego.

[B]

I can't. I can't think he did that on his own. I just. I can't. I just don't see it. I just feel like he was talking or getting it from somewhere. I don't know.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

I don't see him as that smart.

[C]

Right.

[B]

I mean, smart, but I don't see him as, like, that smart.

[C]

Yeah. Sorry.

[B]

But.

[C]

Right.

[B]

You know what I mean?

[C]

Like, I'm like, how do you come

[B]

up with Tiffany all of a sudden? Like, that was so random.

[C]

I don't even know who Tiffany is. Which one is.

[B]

She's the. She was a Big Brother player. Very, very smart. She went out in the, like, orange suit she was wearing. She was in the beginning With Ian, she got close to Michael. She, like, kind of teamed up with Michael Rapoport. Oh.

[C]

What was he like in person?

[B]

Well, I've known him for a long time because he is the biggest Bravo housewife fan.

[C]

Oh, my God.

[B]

So he can, like, say my lines to. To me and say everything I've ever said on the show. So I always get a kick out of him.

[C]

I mean, we hate to say it, but he was pretty good for the first couple. He kicked himself in the foot, like, and he. He apologized.

[B]

He did.

[C]

I think it was. I mean, as a viewer, it was hard to understand.

[B]

Well, they cut around that a lot.

[C]

Yes. So I'm pretty sure he probably, like, clarified and did mean it the way, you know, because your guys's reaction was so big.

[B]

Yeah. They cut a lot of it. I think everybody was really set off by that.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Because of as you would be. And I understood all of it. And, you know, it was unfortunate in the moment, but, you know, that's what happens when you're, like, trying to save yourself, basically.

[C]

Yes.

[B]

So I did understand it. I don't think my Michael is the kind of person that, you know, goes after people like that. I don't, like, he's a trash talker, you know, But I don't think to me, he's harmless in a sense. You know, we kept him around because he was a perfect shield.

[C]

Oh, totally. He was so chaotic. Yeah.

[B]

It was brilliant for us. We just sat back and, like, you know, we didn't have to do anything. Yeah. That's why he was safe for so long.

[C]

Right. He was so crazy. Like, so New York, you know, Perfect. Yeah.

[B]

Brilliant.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

But that's where he. If he hadn't said that.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

I think Colton would have gone because unfortunately, in that moment, what happened. Colton got the sympathy vote because people were so mad.

[C]

Right.

[B]

So I think Colton really probably would have gone in that moment, but because of that. And that's what happens at that round table.

[C]

Right.

[B]

Switches in two seconds.

[C]

Oh, yeah. And it all comes out. And. Yeah. You're so desperate, and it's like you're turning it back on somebody else. Whoa. Yeah.

[B]

You just don't know. Like, one minute you're going over here, you're gonna vote for this person, and then the PAC mentality happens, and now you're voting for somebody else.

[C]

Oh, yeah, Right. The PAC mentality really took you guys down.

[B]

Sheep. Sheep.

[C]

Unbelievable.

[B]

True, though.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

I mean, I was one of the first ones that voted for Portia. Ron made sense to me, and I was Gonna vote for.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

I was like, look at that pack mentality. I just went right for it.

[C]

Yeah. No, in the beginning, it's like, it's hard. One time when I accidentally got. Well, not accidentally. I don't know. He was going to go anyway. Tony from Survivor.

[B]

Oh, right.

[C]

Who is the, you know, huge Survivor player. He's so lovable. Also chaotic.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

So. But everyone else thought the same thing. So I'm like, obviously, I led the charge. I'm like, oh, I know.

[B]

I know. You lead the charge. I really up. Yeah. So crazy.

[C]

Yeah. No, it's so nuts. I was so happy when Colton died. I'm glad he was killed. Like, he was killed. Yes. And you're with. Was it Caroline or Carolyn, the other housewife?

[B]

Caroline.

[C]

You killed her. But you were so funny.

[B]

So funny. I just put my soap opera hat on for that. I knew what I was doing. I knew exactly. I was like, if you can't have a dramatic moment at this time.

[C]

Right.

[B]

Then you're wasting.

[C]

Exactly.

[B]

You're wasting screen time.

[C]

Yes. You have to make it your own.

[B]

And I just had so much fun doing that.

[C]

Oh, yeah.

[B]

And I give her shit. I'm like, I gave you a really great death. And you should thank me because you could have just walked in and gotten the envelope off the chair, honey. And you. A big death.

[C]

I don't think she knew what to think. Cause she's like, I guess I'll see you at BravoCon. And you're like, no, you won't. I'm like, oh, my God. It was so good.

[B]

So.

[C]

It was so good.

[B]

I loved it. I loved Killing the Housewives. I thought it was fun.

[C]

Yeah. And then the whole thing. That's like, housewives stick together. But, like, you voted. It's like, I just don't. At some point, you have to vote for a housewife.

[B]

Yeah. So I did it early. Okay. All right. But, you know, Dorinda ended up voting for Candace. I mean, I think. I think it was like, everybody. At the end of the day, I don't like that. I don't like gamers. Housewives. I don't. I'm not a housewife anymore, so don't put me in that group.

[C]

Yeah. And like, who started this? Because, like, we kind of.

[B]

You guys had the groups, too?

[C]

Yeah. Yeah, we did. We had, like. Like, kind of. Some of the girls stuck together because we had known each other from different.

[B]

The Bam group, wasn't it?

[C]

Yes. So, I mean, you know, and it's

[B]

like, still so dumb.

[C]

Totally. People were. I Think some of the girls kind of like, took it a little personal. I'm like, it's not. I'm a girls girl. I will welcome. I will you tell. Talked to everyone. Me and Carolyn got so close. Like, I died for her.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

But we just had known each other so naturally stuck together, so. But. And it's like that's what happens.

[B]

That's what happens. Exactly.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

That's what happens.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

But, yeah, I don't feel bad about any of the housewife stuff. No, it's a game.

[C]

It's a game at the end of the day. But speaking of soap opera, how long have we been going? Okay, we've been going for almost an hour. But what was it like being as soap opera star? I feel like I've always wanted to be one if they were still like. It was fun, right?

[B]

Yeah. Because it's so damp fun. And I grew up watching soaps with my mom, so I had watched the soap Days of Our Lives when I got it. I had watched it my whole life.

[C]

That's amazing.

[B]

So it was like winning the lottery, in a sense.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

And in my house, it was cool to do a soap, but in the world of acting, it's low man on the totem pole. Like, low, low, low. Like not respected at all. I didn't know that. I just thought it was the greatest thing ever.

[C]

Right. Well, it's like, yeah, we're all. Well, I didn't, but I would have if it was in my life. It's like we're watching it after school, so everybody does it. Jennifer Aniston started on Soaps.

[B]

Her dad. I played opposite her dad.

[C]

Wow.

[B]

He played Victor Kyriakis and he was on the show the whole time I was there. And, you know, it's a world that you get great training. Like, I couldn't have been trained any better.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

In that world.

[C]

No, definitely. Yes. Because you get to, like, really be out of yourself and play someone who's like, you know, completely different.

[B]

Yeah. And you're doing a show a day and you're learning 20 to 40 pages dialog a day.

[C]

Oh, my God. How did you do it? I need tips.

[B]

Well, your muscle starts to, you know, it's like working out.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

And so after a while, you just get muscle memory and you start to really learn. And then there's a point where you just. I. I was like, you guys have to take whatever comes out of my

[C]

mouth because it's impossible to learn.

[B]

If it's close enough, you guys gotta take it.

[C]

Yes. When they're like, oh, let's do a retake. We messed up the was and the is. Oh, no, no. And it's like, can't we make it work?

[B]

And we started to. Because, you know, after a while, it's like they wanted one or two takes because you had so much to film money too. And so they would be like, okay, moving on, we'll take it. As long as I get the gist of it.

[C]

Right.

[B]

And, you know, some of the older actors are using cue cards. Wow, that was interesting. So, yeah, you know, I'd be talking to you, but you're looking over here, looking at your cards, and then looking back at me. It was a trip.

[C]

Wow. Yeah. It's like hosting.

[B]

It was hard.

[C]

It's probably hard for you to, like, really get into character. So you're like, I could never do it. Yeah.

[B]

I couldn't use cue cards because I just couldn't break my focus like that.

[C]

Right.

[B]

But the ones that did, they were so good at it.

[C]

Yeah. And it's like, you know, it's easier because you don't have to memorize it.

[B]

Are you kidding? They just show up. They don't even really know what they're gonna say. Right. They would just show up, read their card.

[C]

Yeah, Right. Get paid. You're an actor. Go home.

[B]

Unbelievable.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

That's amazing.

[B]

That was smart for them.

[C]

That's how I am. Just because I'm now getting into scripted, like. And I, you know, don't have any, like, huge scenes or anything yet. Maybe a bigger one in the one I just did. But I was talking to the girls, and I'm like, how do you do this? Like, some of them do voice memos. Well, they're. They'll read their lines.

[B]

Oh.

[C]

And then listen to it back.

[B]

Oh, yeah. Really?

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Oh, fascinating.

[C]

Right. Or you'll do the other person's lines, record it with spaces, and then.

[B]

Oh, see, I don't know if I could do that.

[C]

I know it's kind of a lot. And also your timing changes based on

[B]

how well you know the lines you. In my head, I think.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

I have to learn by rote is how I do it.

[C]

You write it.

[B]

No, I. By rote. What you do is you. You read it in a monotone. So without any. Yeah, without anything. So it's like, da, da, da, da, da, da, da, da, da, da. That is how I learn it without any inflections so that I don't taint it at all. So that when I actually. Once. It's in my brain and I Say it. It comes from a true sense of how I would maybe say it to you in the moment. That's how I do it.

[C]

Okay. That's genius.

[B]

So if that helps you in any way, Try that.

[C]

Well. Cause you over practice, and then you get there, and you do it a million times there, and then you lose. Or you just have. Sound like a robot.

[B]

Yeah. You don't want to do that. You want to make sure that you get your lines. So that. This is what one of my acting teachers taught me. You have your lines down so much that if a truck was coming at you, you could say your lines before it hit you. Yeah. That's really knowing. And then you can throw it away and play because you're.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

In your body. Know them. Like, a truck could come and you could be like, da, da, da, da, da. Crap.

[C]

Flat. I'm like, please kill me. What would my last line be? Hilarious.

[B]

So that's. That's how I do it.

[C]

Yeah. No, that's smart. I'm like, I need something.

[B]

It's hard. Acting's hard. You know, the ones that make it look easy are geniuses. And that's why we love to watch them.

[C]

Right? Yeah. Because it's so not easy.

[B]

It's not easy.

[C]

They're like, just listen. Yeah. It's like, how can I listen?

[B]

Yeah. Because I'm thinking about my line and moment and what's my character. And, I mean, there's so much that goes into it, but I think at the end of the day, when you're there, you just gotta let it go.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

And then be here in the moment.

[C]

Yeah. No, so true. It is like. Like, I try and compare it to dancing because I'm a dancer. You're a dancer? Well, I feel like you're the Eliza Minnelli and I'm the Judy Garland. Oh, I'm your mom. You're hilarious. And the way that we dance.

[B]

I know. My. My social media girl was like, you guys have to do a dance together. Please just do something. And I was like, all right, I'll ask her, but I don't know.

[C]

Please. Yes.

[B]

Do something together.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Play a song and just videotape it. Please. I was like, okay.

[C]

No, I love it. Yes.

[B]

We both have interesting takes on how we do it.

[C]

Right.

[B]

Like how we move our body and what we do. I think it's hilarious.

[C]

Me too.

[B]

It's fun.

[C]

And it's so fun. And it's so fun to be goofy.

[B]

Goofy, isn't it?

[C]

Especially on TikTok.

[B]

That's what I Love about you, too. It's like, you're not afraid to, like, be goofy and to do things that, you know, most people won't do that. So when somebody does, I'm so attracted to it. I'm like, look it. She doesn't care that, you know, somebody might say, oh, you look funny or silly or. It doesn't matter.

[C]

No, literally. Yeah, it's great. Thanks.

[B]

It's really refreshing.

[C]

Yes. But same with you. It's like, we can't take ourselves too serious. Seriously. Please.

[B]

I try to teach my kids that because, you know, growing up in this social media world, you want to be perfect and you want to be filtered and you want it to all look like that. And I'm like, no, no, no. They want to see authenticity, be authentic.

[C]

We're craving it right now.

[B]

Craving it.

[C]

Just be real.

[B]

Whatever that is. Be goofy. Be whatever you are. Just be it. Yeah. I think that's the ticket to being happy.

[C]

Oh, my gosh. Yeah. Cause we. Yeah, we want to be like everybody else, but then it's boring. It's like you actually don't want to be. But your daughters are amazing. They're cute, aren't they? Such a good mom. So successful.

[B]

They're such good girls. You know, they have really gone out there and made it for themselves.

[C]

Right.

[B]

You know, like, maybe we could open the door. But you still have to go through it, and you still have to work really, really, really hard.

[C]

Oh, yeah.

[B]

So I'm very proud of them.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Extremely.

[C]

No. And you guys are so cute on family vacation occasions. I'm like, oh, my. Yeah.

[B]

It's just so nice. They still want to come home, you know, they still want to hang out with us, and we're like, oh, I don't know. We must have done something right, you know, because, like, Amelia's at the house right now. Delilah's on her way to, like. She's like, I'm gonna come spend a couple nights with you guys.

[C]

My God. Fun. They love you.

[B]

It's so nice. We're so lucky. We're lucky.

[C]

Yeah. And, like, they're good, and they love you, and they're good kids. And they're good kids. Yeah. You did a good job. And I mean.

[B]

Yeah, if we did one thing right, I think we did that. We don't know how, because, you know, you fuck up your kids, you can't help it.

[C]

No.

[B]

You know, you can't. But we did something right. So whatever we did, I think they're a reflection of something good.

[C]

Yeah. And that's the Hardest job. I mean, I'm not gonna have kids, but I can only imagine. Yeah.

[B]

Especially two girls, right? Teenagers. I mean, I. It's a surprise I'm still alive, to be honest. Truly.

[C]

I say that all the time because they get nasty. It's like, not just mean. It's another level.

[B]

Oh, God. I mean, I was that way to my mom.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

And she was always like, I hope I live long enough to see those girls be teenagers with you. I really do. And of course she did, thank God, because there's nothing like it. That is a level of, like, meanness and cruelness that you can't even make up.

[C]

Only girls can do it. It'll hit you right where it hurts. I hate you.

[B]

You. Oh.

[C]

I never want to see you again.

[B]

I will never speak to you again.

[C]

Right. And you, like, believe it. Oh, yeah. In that moment, it's like they really believe it. It's like, come on. It's not that deep. You're just grounded, and you just have

[B]

to let them do it and do it and be it. But, man, it's like, oh, my gosh.

[C]

Right. Especially as a mother, it's like, how much I've done for you. I literally warned you. Yeah.

[B]

It is brutal. But if you can get through that, I think you can do and deal with anything.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Truly.

[C]

Oh, yeah, I'm sure.

[B]

I'm like, bring it on, honey. I survived two teenagers in Hollywood, like, all of it.

[C]

So hard. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[B]

No, I won.

[C]

No, it can't be.

[B]

You did.

[C]

You really did.

[B]

They didn't go to jail, and they're still alive.

[C]

Right? The bar's low, actually. Yes. My dad can't say the same. Just kidding. I never went to jail.

[B]

And you're live. Yeah. So there you go.

[C]

Yeah. And I'm alive, and you're alive. Yes. There was things in between.

[B]

There's a win.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Dad won.

[C]

Yeah. I'm like, should I pay you back from, like, serious, like, you know, emotional other kind of damage? It's like, you know, their parents.

[B]

I know.

[C]

Yeah. I'll get them one day.

[B]

We're doing the best we can as parents. Our parents did the best they could with their knowledge. You know what I mean? You can kind of have to cut everybody's slack at the end of the day.

[C]

Oh, of course.

[B]

Because, you know, we fuck up our kids, our parents fucked us up. I mean, basically, it's just what happens, and then you spend the rest of your life in therapy trying to figure out exactly what happened, and then try not to do it. To your kids and then get your kids in therapy.

[C]

Yeah. To unpack. You gotta get ahead of this. You will get fucked up from me. I didn't mean it.

[B]

I've already told them that. I mean, please.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

I'm like, get in therapy now so that you can deal with it now. So you're not dealing with it like I am now in my 60s.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Do it now.

[C]

And it comes out, like, in your relationships.

[B]

All over the place.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Yeah, all over the place. It's so important, I think, to self reflect and take responsibility for the parts that you play. Cause it's so easy for us to blame.

[C]

Oh, yeah.

[B]

And go, you're fucked up. And this is that. And this is that. No, you got to look at how, like, what. Why are you here? What did you create?

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

All of it.

[C]

Right. Because we. Yeah. Some of it is our fault, unfortunately. And you have to take accountability. I was dying in your Housewives chapter when you're like, they're Virgos, and I don't get along with Virgos. Just like a factual statement. We don't need to get into it. If you know, you know. And you're a cancer. I have. I love cancer.

[B]

Julia, what are you?

[C]

I'm a Capricorn. I love a Capricorn, so I feel like it's my fall.

[B]

Capricorn and Cancers, we get along great.

[C]

Yes. There's a lot of Capricorns in my good friend's life. Cancer.

[B]

I get along with Gemini.

[C]

Opposites.

[B]

Yes. I think that's why. Exactly. That's not a problem. But it's true. But I do like Virgo men. See, it's different. I'm starting to clock that I like a Virgo man. I cannot get along with a Virgo woman.

[C]

What it is about the Virgo woman?

[B]

They just piss me off.

[C]

I just had Jinx Monsoon on my podcast.

[B]

Who? A Virgo.

[C]

But she doesn't like other Virgos.

[B]

Oh, okay.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

All right. So again, maybe there are, you know,

[C]

but there's something about exceptions. Yes. I have two good friends who are Virgos, but we're not really put in a position where we're gonna, like, go at each other.

[B]

Yes, exactly. I can live with the Virgos out in the world, but Virgos on Housewives.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

No, it did not work.

[C]

Yes.

[B]

At all.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Not for one second.

[C]

Well, I think you guys come from a different place. Like, the Virgos are, like, probably think that they can analyze and logically talk.

[B]

And we're coming more from, like, here as a Cancer.

[C]

Yes. Whatever. It is emotional.

[B]

I think they would agree that they didn't get along with me as much as I didn't get along with them.

[C]

Yeah. I just love astrology and knowing something. So, like, who are the Virgos again?

[B]

Kim Richardson? Lisa Vanderpump? Sutton Strack?

[C]

Okay.

[B]

I think I kind of just.

[C]

I mean, I don't know what Sutton would be.

[B]

Denise Richards? I think they're.

[C]

They're all Virgos.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

Oh, interesting. Yeah.

[B]

So I just kind of. As I was writing the book and thinking about it, I was like, maybe that's it. Maybe that's one of the reasons why it didn't work. I don't know.

[C]

Right. There has to be some kind of coincidence. I need to figure out what star sign I hate. You will

[B]

just take some time. You're still young.

[C]

Pay attention.

[B]

Just watch. I mean, I love all that. I love a good medium. I love a good psychic. I love it. I love it all.

[C]

Oh, my God. When's the last time you saw a medium?

[B]

Ah, let's see. I mean, I talk to one all the time.

[C]

Really? What?

[B]

They say all sorts of things.

[C]

And, like, connecting with.

[B]

Yeah. Like, whoa. I have a good friend who's actually a medium. Psychic, whatever. She was really there when my mom was passing and helped us kind of all go through it. So I talk to her a lot still, and she'll, like, tell me, you know, to be careful here, or, like, if I fly, I'll tell her that I'm flying or the kids are flying. Just. It's like peace of mind. Yes. It's like, little peace of mind. Yeah.

[C]

And it's spiritual. It's nice to, like, have something like that that's not so tangible.

[B]

I agree.

[C]

That you can, like, believe in.

[B]

It helps.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Again, it's like manifestation. If you think it and you're positive, it's what comes back. So if that helps me to be more positive and think better. Okay.

[C]

Yeah, no, absolutely. I think my. My grandma visits me often.

[B]

Don't you love that?

[C]

I do. I've always thought of her, like, of course, of a guardian angel of sorts. Like, I know she's protecting me, but one time, Robbie and I were sitting on the couch. It was like a Tuesday night. I was high. She was, like, drinking wines, whatever. But that's when it happens, is when I'm high.

[B]

So I think my. Guard your guards down. And you're more open. Probably.

[C]

Yes. Because, like, as adults, we're taught to be afraid of these things, which I was terrified because I was high. And of Course you get paranoid.

[B]

I hate that part. But.

[C]

But thank God Robbie was there. But she kind of had a great crazy story where she was at a wedding once, and the bride's dad had just died. And all of a sudden, the whole parking lot of cars, all the alarms went off at the same time. She fell to the floor. The whole audience was sobbing.

[B]

Whoa.

[C]

Yes. It's like one of those things that's a moment. Yes.

[B]

You can't. Yeah. Wish that one away.

[C]

And so a shared experience. Wow. So, like, everyone remembered. I was like, whoa, that's so crazy. But that night, we were talking about it, and I was like, oh, yeah. Like, I. I see the lights flicker all the time. Yeah. She's like, okay. I don't know about a light flicker. I'm like, but it seems on purpose because, you know, I'll talk to the maintenance man. I'm like, I'll have him come over and change all the light bulbs, and then I'll go looking for the light bulbs, and they're not flickering anymore. I'm like, I just have a feeling, you know, it's her. And she's like, I don't know. So we kind of go on talking, and then a huge light flicks very unintentionally, off, on, off, on. She was like, did you see that? And I was like, no, I missed it five minutes later. Off, on, off, on. Yes. And I saw it. And we were, like, saying hello. She was like, hi, Zadie. I'm like, hi, Grandma. Hi, great grandma. We were just saying hi to everybody.

[B]

That's amazing.

[C]

Yes.

[B]

How lucky.

[C]

How. Yes. And she. And she was like, don't be afraid. It's okay. Cause I'm like, I always get scared.

[B]

I know.

[C]

Yeah. But it's, like, really special.

[B]

I love it, too. My mom's always around, Lights flickering, candles flickering. Like, she travels all over with me. She'll be in Paris. She'll be in London. It's so, so comforting.

[C]

Yeah, it is. It's so comforting to know that they're still there and they care about you and they love you and they're protecting us.

[B]

Right? Oh, I truly believe that.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Same like the whole family, big time protection.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

It just gives you a little peace of mind and a little comfort, and I'll take it.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Right.

[C]

No saying, saying. Okay. I have one last question.

[B]

Okay.

[C]

I know. I feel like I could talk to you forever. That's a Birkin. Right? Okay. Well, what is it with everyone getting Birkin?

[B]

You know, I. And I haven't carried this In a long time. I just kind of brought it out. No, I love. It's like Birkin, Birkin, Birkin, Birkin. You know, it's something that I think people get into, especially, like, once they, like, make some money and start to get successful and maybe you're into fashion, whatnot. It's kind of your first little support purchase. I'm gonna buy this for myself.

[C]

Yeah. But everyone from Traders. Mara got. Or can you believe Rob got Mara a Birkin?

[B]

I can. Because I helped him get it.

[C]

Shut the fuck up.

[B]

I got that.

[C]

How much was it? Well, that part. Was it. Because there's. There's a spectrum.

[B]

There's a spectrum.

[C]

I was looking on ebay.

[B]

I don't know exactly how much that one was, because I actually wasn't there and didn't ask, but somewhere between 16 and 21,000.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Is what I would say.

[C]

Huge amount of money for him to spend.

[B]

Yes.

[C]

You know, he's getting taxed.

[B]

Well, it's very nice that he did that.

[C]

He is. And she deserved it.

[B]

Very nice. And. And I was happy to help make that happen because, you know, it's impossible to get a Birkin bag.

[C]

Yeah. Like, you just can't. No. You have to start with a scarf. You're like, I hate the fucking scarf. Then you have to get a pen

[B]

and you have to get on the list, and then they have to call you in a year. Like, it's hard. And I just happen to have a couple of connections.

[C]

Of course. This is my favorite.

[B]

Isn't this so good?

[C]

It's so good.

[B]

There's nothing better than a fake cigarette.

[C]

No.

[B]

Like, nothing.

[C]

And it speaks volumes, doesn't it? So much in it.

[B]

You can do so much with it.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

My favorite thing, as you know. So I was very happy to be able to facilitate that and bring that full circle moment together. That's in a fashionable way.

[C]

Right. And you would be the one mediating that.

[B]

Of course.

[C]

But when I saw that, I'm like, birkins can cure misogyny. If every. You know. Yes. Just. Just buy women Birkins. And then it would be nice.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

And look how that happened. Everyone was kumbayani on the Rob team. I'm not gonna lie.

[B]

Really?

[C]

Yes. I mean, it was before I watched Traitors, but it's like, oh, I watched him on Love island as a completely different experience.

[B]

I did not. I've never watched Love island, so I didn't know any of that.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Interesting.

[C]

He wasn't, like, terrible or anything. It just didn't different when you're on a love reality show, of course, and

[B]

you're, like, hooking up with people instead of.

[C]

Yes. So. But when I saw he bought more of the brick, and I'm like, okay, I'm on this is a Man.

[B]

Didn't you instantly go, I like him now?

[C]

Oh, 100%. To take that. That's a huge chunk of money, even for people who, like, didn't just win that money, have been saving, but. And to do that for somebody else. But I'm like, does he have a girlfriend?

[B]

He does now.

[C]

So what does she think?

[B]

I don't know. I think it's new.

[C]

Oh, okay.

[B]

So I think he got away with it because the relationship's only, like, two months. Okay, got it. So I think she understands. I don't know. But I'm sensing that because the relationship is new, it would be easy to work through it.

[C]

Yes. Hopefully he ran it by her, because I'd be like, where the fuck is my break again?

[B]

And I was even like, where the fuck is my birthday? Because you first fucked me over. But we went through all that. I actually did say that. Of course. I was like, I'm gonna let you off the hook. It's all right.

[C]

But I saw Tara and Johnny have matching Birkins. Now.

[B]

I just saw that.

[C]

Yes, I know, huh?

[B]

Hilarious.

[C]

I want the. I did look up. Because all these Birkins are everywhere. I did look up the original Jane Birkin and how much it sold for.

[B]

Can you believe?

[C]

Yeah. No, I know. I actually can't.

[B]

I can't either. Like, it's a bag.

[C]

Yes.

[B]

It's truly remarkable. The whole. The whole process of it all. It's fascinating to me, and I just get such a kick out of it.

[C]

Say I'm. I mean, just so everyone knows, it sold for 10 million.

[B]

Is that crazy?

[C]

It's so crazy because I'm like, I would want mine beat up, step down, thrown around.

[B]

You want it?

[C]

Yes.

[B]

Like, I'm trying to beat this one up even more right now because I haven't really used it much. And I'm like, I'm gonna beat this one up.

[C]

I like it. Right Wabi style. And it makes you. You know, there's an air. You're like, yeah, I have a Birkin, but I don't give a fuck.

[B]

It's so good. Yeah, I know. It's so fun. Well, truth be told, I was in Paris, and I have one of my very dear, dear friends, runs Hermes in Paris. Now, I never use him as he's my friend, so I Hang out with him. We meet every time, but I don't use him.

[C]

Like, I never say, you're so classy.

[B]

Will you give someone a Birkin?

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

But this last time in Paris, I knew that he watched the Traders and loved it. And he's a big housewife fan. So, you know, I like, send the housewives in to him, and he loves it. So I thought, okay. Mara reaches out to me. She sees that I'm at dinner with him, and he's known for being like, Mr. Hermes, right? So she sees me at dinner with him and she texts me and she goes, is there any way could get a Birkin from him? And I go, man, I don't normally do this. Right. I don't cross that line. But yeah, I adore her. He adores Traders.

[C]

Right?

[B]

I'm gonna just see. Because I never do it. Put it out there.

[C]

Right?

[B]

So I text him. I don't like to do this, but I know you love Traders. Maura's here. Da da da da. Do you have any time in your schedule? So fabulous. I love her so much. Is there any way you have any time in your schedule? He literally writes back, 3:30. Today is the only time I have open. If she wants to come, I'd love to help her. Oh, my God. I go, maura.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

And it's already 11:30.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

If you can do 3:30, he'll take you. She says, yes, I'm there.

[C]

She goes, wait, in Paris?

[B]

In Paris.

[C]

She was in Europe already.

[B]

Yes. So this was. Was a couple of months ago. This was back in January.

[C]

So now she has two more.

[B]

She has two.

[C]

So that's my.

[B]

I got her one in January pre. 1. Like. Like Mara or like Johnny and Tara. Yes. With the gold hardware. Okay.

[C]

Yes.

[B]

And then now she got the one from Ron.

[C]

Oh, my God. Two in a couple months. Two in a couple months. That is crazy.

[B]

I just love it. I loved it. So now she has, like, bookends.

[C]

Oh, my God, I love it. And she deserves it.

[D]

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[C]

I. I was looking at this denim so long.

[B]

I see it over there.

[C]

Well, I was like, once I stop smoking, I'll get this for myself. And I got It. And I haven't stopped, but.

[B]

Well, that's the thing. That's the problem. Yes.

[C]

You just have to get it because you want it.

[B]

You just. It's hard to stop that because it's like an addiction. It is. It taps into dopamine almost as much.

[C]

And as well, it's really depleted for me. You guys feel bad for me.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

It's okay.

[B]

You deserve it. It's good to do it. You're helping the economy. You're putting money in.

[C]

And I thought about it for a really long time.

[B]

I'm sure you did.

[C]

Once you think about it, it's like, okay, there's. At some point, you have to pull the trigger. But that's another thing as women is we have shame. We feel like we have to, like, earn everything or work for it. Me trying to make an excuse for quitting smoking.

[B]

Yeah. Like, why can't you just go buy yourself the denim Chanel and then have a cigarette. Yeah. And be okay with it. But no, you have to fucking quit smoking.

[C]

Right. Literally. Which I will at some point. I'm not an idiot. But it's like I chase it with a vitamin C. Well, it's the hardest thing.

[B]

It's the most addictive thing it is on the planet. So you got to cut yourself a little bit of slack.

[C]

Yeah. And it's the. It's the routine of it. It's like the coffee with. Because we go out of town to see our. Our family, we can't smoke there. And I'm fine. I don't even think about it.

[B]

Really.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

So you probably could stop at any point.

[C]

I could.

[B]

It doesn't sound like you're that addicted then. If you can just do that.

[C]

No, I'm not physically addicted. Mentally, I like to take a break. I'm bored, as sometimes I see.

[B]

That's why I do this. Because if I could, I would smoke.

[C]

Oh, yeah.

[B]

I love it.

[C]

Yeah. Love with the coffee. With. Yes. You take a moment, you take five naps. Exactly.

[B]

We don't do that.

[C]

We don't do it. We don't take breaks. Which is why everyone smokes on set.

[B]

I know.

[C]

Like, I'm leaving for set next week. I hope to God they don't smoke. It's like Robbie's like, what are you talking about?

[B]

Everyone smokes. Right? Everyone smokes. They're not smoking. They're vaping.

[C]

Yeah. And what am I going to miss out on? Like, social time. Like, I got to be in the smoker circle.

[B]

It's the most fun.

[C]

Hello. Did you Guys smoke on Traders.

[B]

Everyone else did those cigarettes. Well the smokers smoked cigarettes and the vapers vaped and if you couldn't smoke you were vaping.

[C]

Right.

[B]

But the ones that really were like they had to go out and have a break or they would go crazy.

[C]

No, literally nobody smoked on my season. It was so annoying. I mean even really?

[B]

Yeah, yeah, no, we had a few.

[C]

Yeah, I'm not going to do it by myself. By the end I was like, please someone get me a pack of cigarettes. And me and Dolores were like on

[B]

the bench, like oh, hilarious. Okay, I going to be over. You have to smoke at that point.

[C]

Yeah, like cuz you need a break,

[B]

you need something like I wish I had something smoked during it, you know, because it would probably have helped me.

[C]

Right? Yes.

[B]

So fumes.

[C]

Yeah. You need something just like a little after a round table. That would maybe be the best cigarette ever.

[B]

Did you drink on the show at all? Yeah, see I didn't drink at all really.

[C]

I didn't drink a lot because I don't normally drink but yeah, I just didn't.

[B]

I didn't think it would help me at all. So I said I'm not gonna drink it all.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

You know, just totally no drinking. So I didn't drink at all. But most everyone else would. I mean they only give you one or two so it's not like you.

[C]

Oh, it took us, it took us a week and a half in to get drinks.

[B]

Did it?

[C]

Oh yeah, they were on the phone with NBC.

[B]

They wouldn't serve you at all.

[C]

No, we had to beg because the civilian season in the UK they don't drink. They don't allow drinks at all. But like they're civilians. It's like they're not, you know, they've never been on a show before. They're not screwed, screaming at production. They bring us in, they're like where the is our one or two bottles of wine? That's what you get.

[B]

One or two. That's it.

[C]

Yeah, little bottles.

[B]

Little tiny.

[C]

Yes.

[B]

Like you're not getting drunk. No one's getting drunk.

[C]

No, no. Maybe.

[B]

Tiny buzz.

[C]

Right. And if you're on an empty stomach, whatever. I think I got a buzz like a couple of times. Yeah, but, but yeah, they were like talking to NBC like the cast is out of their mind. We need to get alcohol here now.

[B]

That's how we were with the food.

[C]

Yeah, food.

[B]

They were not serving us much food in the beginning and it was not

[C]

good with all those boys and they eat all the protein. Yeah. I Saw Rob with those eggs.

[B]

They ate all the chicken breasts. And I finally was like, you guys, you have to feed us. So everybody was going to the therapist. You know, when the therapist comes in and talks to you once a week, we were like, we need food. Food.

[C]

Right. That's all I have to say.

[B]

We were just screaming about food, and then they started to bring in food. So I think it's part of the.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Plan.

[C]

My therapist always got an earful. I don't know if you had the same one.

[B]

She's so sweet. They were so sweet. Yeah, I. We had two of them, but one of them. Oh, yeah. I think that's. That's what they're there for.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

So that you can unload for 30. It's only 30 minutes.

[C]

Not very long. She was amazing, though. She was like, all this, you know, information, because I was pissed off from the beginning that the dudes were taking control, not listening to any of the women. Like, here we go again. I'm so sick of this. And she's like, put all of this into your interview. Tell your own story. Oh, very good. By the end, she got to me too much. And they're like, okay, Gabby, we get it. But I'm like, I'm sorry. What else am I going to talk about?

[B]

Yeah, it's true.

[C]

And I don't. I don't have any men in my life normally. So being thrown back into that would trigger you. Yes.

[B]

Be triggering. Well.

[C]

And it's like, not, like, kind of why, whatever. I left. Why I'm a lesbian. But it's like, it just. Yeah. Reminds you of how the world works.

[B]

Yes. Yeah. I'm more in it than that because I have men around all the time, so I didn't see it. I can't see.

[C]

Nobody really said anything on your season, but it's the same. The first. The first challenge you guys did, all of the boys were making the decisions.

[B]

True.

[C]

They were like.

[B]

They take over instinct instantly. Instantly. And again, to be fair, for them, that's their nature, and that's also what they're, in their minds, are supposed to do. We're supposed to save the day. We're supposed to be the hunters. We go out and we hunt, like, you know.

[C]

Right. But even the box challenge, when it was Rob and Eric or. Yeah, he was right.

[B]

Yes.

[C]

And they had to put people in the box for the short list. All women. I consider Johnny a woman.

[B]

That's right. You're right. You know, there's a lot of that that went on.

[C]

That's what I'm saying it's like, it's. I was. Because I was asking someone, I was like, is this like this every season? They're like, oh, beyond.

[B]

Yeah, I'm sure it is. But you probably noticed it more because you're more. You're hyper sensitive to it because you're not around it all the time.

[C]

And we. Chrishell, you know, is gays queen, so we were like kind of all seeing the same thing things and we. Yeah, yeah, it was more. Right, right. But whatever. That's my hot take. Everyone's sick of it, but it's fine.

[B]

Yeah, we all have our hot takes.

[C]

Whatever. Well, thank you so much for coming on. Thank you for having me.

[B]

So fun. Long time in the making. We've been trying to do this for quite a while, so.

[C]

Yeah, no, no, I was looking forward to this, like, more than anything. Me too.

[B]

Me too. Me too. Oh, my God.

[C]

And your book's out.

[B]

Book's out.

[C]

It's amazing. Yes. Just reading it is, like, so easy. In a good way.

[B]

Yeah, it's easy to listen to it. You know, I did the audiobook for the first time and it's doing really well. I'm very pleased with the whole experience.

[C]

Yeah, no, it's great.

[B]

It turned out much better than I thought it would.

[C]

Yay. Yay. Thank you. Thank you so much.

[B]

Why have we asked our contractor we

[C]

found on Angie.com to be our kid's legal guardian? Because he took such good care when redoing our basement that we knew we could trust him to care for our kids.

[A]

We only met a month ago. Angie, the one you trust to find the ones you trust. Find pros for all your home [e-mail] real talent is defined by what people can do, not where they learn to do it. So by stopping at the education section of a resume, you might throw away the perfect hire skills first. Hiring helps you see talent others miss. Like more than 70 million stars skilled through alternative routes let their story unfold and gain a competitive advantage. Because hiring managers who start with skills are 60% more likely to find a successful hire. Hire skills first. Learn why at tearthepaperceiling. Org. Brought to you by opportunity at work and the ad council.