LPN Deep Dives: Crescent City / Episode 13: Grumpy Like The Wolf - LPN Deep Dives: Crescent City

Summary5 min read

LPN Deep Dives: Crescent City – Episode 13: "Grumpy Like The Wolf"

Hosted by Natalie Jean and Jackie Zabrowski, Episode 13 of LPN Deep Dives delves into the complexities of Sarah J. Maas's adult science fiction novel series, Crescent City. Released on January 15, 2025, this episode offers an in-depth exploration of Chapter 43, titled "Grumpy Like The Wolf," highlighting key plot developments, character dynamics, and thematic elements.

1. Introduction

Natalie Jean and Jackie Zabrowski kick off the episode with their trademark banter, establishing a light-hearted atmosphere before transitioning into their comprehensive analysis of Crescent City. Their chemistry makes the discussion engaging, setting the stage for a deep dive into the novel's intricate narrative.

2. Plot Summary

Key Developments in Chapter 43:

Bryce and Hunt's Investigation: The duo visits the Wolf's Den to interrogate Sabine about Danika's murder. Their mission is fraught with tension as they navigate hostile environments and confront past traumas.
Introduction of Therian Ketos: Therian, the River Queen's captain of intelligence, is introduced as a pivotal character. His flirtatious interactions with Bryce add layers to his relationship with Hunt.
Confrontation with Amelie Ravencroft: Amelie, a formidable wolf opponent, challenges Hunt and Bryce, escalating the conflict within the Wolf's Den.
Emotional Turmoil: Bryce grapples with unresolved feelings towards Ethan, her former friend, adding emotional depth to her character arc.

Notable Plot Points:

Sailing Ritual: The concept of "sailing," a ceremonial sending off of the dead, underscores the novel's exploration of death and the unknown.
Merfolk Lore: The hosts discuss the mysterious abilities of merfolk, particularly their capacity to shift between humanoid and aquatic forms, which adds a mystical dimension to the story.

“Bryce and Hunt are at the river's edge, facing not just the immediate threat but also their own unresolved emotions,” (00:56).

3. Character Analysis

Bryce Quinlan: Bryce is portrayed as a resilient yet emotionally vulnerable character. Her interactions with Therian reveal her complexity, balancing professional duty with personal feelings.

“I’m still mad. I’m sorry, guys,” Bryce confesses her frustration over delayed costume parts, symbolizing her struggle to maintain composure amidst chaos (08:01).

Hunter "Hunt" Hunt: Hunt's protective nature is emphasized as he navigates his feelings for Bryce while dealing with external threats.

“He doesn't make friends easy, but they're like friendly ish with each other,” highlighting his guarded demeanor (07:01).

Therian Ketos: Therian emerges as an intriguing character with a charismatic and flirtatious personality, creating tension between him and Hunt.

“Therian winks at her and threatens to pull her beneath,” showcasing his dual nature of charm and menace (16:02).

Amelie Ravencroft: Amelie embodies antagonism within the wolf pack, challenging Bryce and Hunt's authority and intensifying the conflict.

“Amelie challenges Hunt to a fight and he says he won't fight in front of the pups,” illustrating her aggressive stance (54:20).

4. Themes and Insights

Trauma and Healing: The episode delves into how characters cope with past traumas, particularly focusing on Hunt's memories of Bryce's room and Bryce's internal struggles with Ethan's actions.

“Bryce reflects on how much she deserves this misery,” underscoring her battle with self-worth (45:21).

Loyalty and Betrayal: Loyalty within the wolf pack is a recurring theme, especially in the context of betrayal and shifting alliances.

“Wolves consider loyalty one of the most important traits,” emphasizing the cultural importance of loyalty in the novel (65:35).

Communication Breakdown: Bryce and Ethan's strained communication highlights the broader theme of fractured relationships post-trauma.

“If he had just sent a text saying something, things might have been different,” illustrating the consequences of poor communication (70:31).

Mysticism and Magic: The intricate lore surrounding the merfolk and their mystical abilities adds a rich layer to the narrative, enhancing the novel's fantasy elements.

“Merfolk can shift to a humanoid body for short periods, adding depth to their mysterious nature,” (12:45).

5. Notable Quotes with Timestamps

“I’m still mad. I’m sorry, guys,” – Bryce Quinlan (08:01)
“He doesn’t make friends easy, but they’re like friendly ish with each other,” – Jackie Zabrowski discussing Hunt's character (07:01)
“Therian winks at her and threatens to pull her beneath,” – Describing Therian's interaction with Bryce (16:02)
“Amelie challenges Hunt to a fight and he says he won’t fight in front of the pups,” – Highlighting Amelie's antagonism (54:20)
“Wolves consider loyalty one of the most important traits,” – Discussing wolf culture (65:35)
“If he had just sent a text saying something, things might have been different,” – On communication breakdown (70:31)

6. Hosts’ Personal Insights and Reactions

Natalie Jean: Natalie expresses a mix of amusement and frustration, particularly when discussing costume delays and personal anecdotes, bringing a relatable human element to the analysis.

“I cried about it yesterday when I found out that the tail wasn’t going to be here in time,” revealing her personal investment in cosplay aspects related to the book (08:17).

Jackie Zabrowski: Jackie offers critical perspectives on character motivations and plot developments, providing a deeper analytical layer to the discussion.

“She realizes just how much he now looks like Connor, she starts to have a panic attack,” reflecting on Bryce's emotional state (58:17).

7. Thematic Discussions

Supernatural Elements: The hosts explore the book's supernatural aspects, such as merfolk's shapeshifting abilities and the enigmatic presence of demons like the Crystallos.

“Merfolk can shift to a humanoid body for short periods, meaning they have leg somehow,” discussing the lore (12:45).

Gender Roles and Mythology: The episode touches on the reversal of traditional gender roles in merfolk lore, where male merfolk exhibit dominant traits, contrasting common folklore.

“It's a gender reversal of the human lore... usually, it's women mer dragging down sailors,” noting Therian's assertive nature (23:15).

Power and Authority: The dynamics within the wolf pack reveal underlying tensions about power and authority, particularly through characters like Amelie and the Prime.

“The Prime is still the Prime and alive, but she's not doing a good job because the morale in the wolf's den is not positive,” analyzing leadership issues (76:35).

8. Conclusion

Episode 13 of LPN Deep Dives: Crescent City provides a thorough examination of Chapter 43, unraveling the intricate web of character relationships, plot intricacies, and thematic nuances. Natalie Jean and Jackie Zabrowski adeptly balance their personal insights with critical analysis, offering listeners both entertainment and a deeper understanding of Sarah J. Maas's complex world. As they navigate through Bryce and Hunt's tumultuous journey, the hosts highlight the enduring themes of trauma, loyalty, and the struggle for power, setting the stage for future episodes to explore the unfolding narrative further.

“We're gonna... steel yourself for next week because we've got a lot more to learn,” Natalie concludes, leaving listeners eagerly anticipating the next installment (77:35).

Subscribe to SiriusXM Podcasts+ on Apple Podcasts to enjoy ad-free episodes and stay updated with LPN Deep Dives: Crescent City.

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Transcript675 lines

[00:20]
Natalie Jean
Welcome to Crescent City with your hosts, Natalie Jean and Jackie Zabrowski.
[00:32]
Jackie Zabrowski
I would like to have a political podcast in this contest.
[00:34]
Natalie Jean
I was just about to say. I was like, I love an otter. Being like, I've got things to say.
[00:41]
Jackie Zabrowski
So I'm kind of wearing a face on a face because I'm not gonna wear this over my face.
[00:45]
Natalie Jean
I really appreciate that you still put the whiskers on underneath so that we knew even if you didn't have the head up, that you're an otter.
[00:55]
Jackie Zabrowski
Wait, oh, wait. Let me do this real quick.
[00:57]
Natalie Jean
It's just cute because. Oh, my God, stop. You're the cute. Well, I guess you're the cutest. You're technically terrifying because we can still see your mouth underneath it.
[01:09]
Jackie Zabrowski
There we go. How's that?
[01:11]
Natalie Jean
Okay. Yeah, no, that's not scary at all. That doesn't make you look like big Ed from 90 Day Fiance. But also as an otter. Yeah, but, you know, you look really, really cute. No, you look very, very cute. Natalie ever said to me, I'm sorry, Natalie, it's only when you're wearing the full otter costume.
[01:28]
Jackie Zabrowski
It's a way to. To really insult somebody. Remind them. You remind them of big Ed from 90 Day Fiance.
[01:35]
Natalie Jean
Did you see that? That TikTok of big ed meeting JoJo Siwa. And I don't know if he was drunk or he just didn't know her name, but he just yells, jojo Siwa. And that is not her name. And I think that he just didn't actually know her name. And it's very funny. I'm sorry I called you Big Head.
[01:55]
Jackie Zabrowski
We have decided as a society to make not good people famous.
[01:59]
Natalie Jean
Yeah. And especially. Especially, you know, I love my tlc. Oh, I love their reality. But they don't do background checks, guys. No.
[02:09]
Jackie Zabrowski
And they do it intentionally. I'm not hating on tlc. I mean, I do hate on tlc.
[02:13]
Natalie Jean
Yeah, we should hate on tlc. But I do give them my money.
[02:16]
Jackie Zabrowski
That they provide a lot of entertainment. They are very amoral.
[02:21]
Natalie Jean
Yeah.
[02:22]
Jackie Zabrowski
They openly bring convicted violence onto the even.
[02:26]
Natalie Jean
Think about again back in. I really would love to question how they got the people for, like, a baby story and a wedding story and all those because they. I'm. If I remember. And I don't know if this was just my trauma overshadowing something, but I'm fairly sure they would show the baby coming out of a vagina.
[02:45]
Jackie Zabrowski
So I know a little bit.
[02:46]
Natalie Jean
4:00Pm oh, yeah.
[02:47]
Jackie Zabrowski
You know, I know a little bit about this because we did the deep Dive on Josh Duggar on my other show, a very differently toned show.
[02:54]
Natalie Jean
Oh, oh, Are you not dressed like this?
[02:56]
Jackie Zabrowski
No.
[02:56]
Natalie Jean
You.
[03:01]
Jackie Zabrowski
I got a letter for you. Um, yeah, the letter to Josh Duggar is, sorry, idiot, you're in jail now. But TLC started out as actually an educational documentary based channel.
[03:15]
Natalie Jean
You damn right it did.
[03:17]
Jackie Zabrowski
And it was really the Duggars who kicked it over into what it is now because people, they received so much. They. They had such high ratings for that show. Well, it wasn't even a show first. It was like semi. It was just documentaries.
[03:31]
Natalie Jean
Oh, I remember. I watched them all. I've been fan of TLC since the beginning of time.
[03:38]
Jackie Zabrowski
Oh, same girl. I've been watching the Duggars since those documentaries. I don't anymore.
[03:42]
Natalie Jean
I don't anymore. I don't anymore.
[03:43]
Jackie Zabrowski
But yeah, so it went from educational quote unquote to just. That's why it was the Learning Channel.
[03:51]
Natalie Jean
But then, like, my mom would just be down with it. I guess I was just so curious. But then she would walk in and it would be like a woman almost fully nude, bracing herself in a doorway, just like. And I just was like, eating it up.
[04:06]
Jackie Zabrowski
And your mom, she's like, that's what childbirth is like.
[04:10]
Natalie Jean
That's what childbirth is like. That's how strong a person can be.
[04:13]
Jackie Zabrowski
That's right.
[04:14]
Natalie Jean
Women, you know, oh, we're strong.
[04:16]
Jackie Zabrowski
Women are witches, and we're goddesses.
[04:19]
Natalie Jean
She does say all of these things. And I'll never forget when I got my first tattoo and my mom got a tattoo as well, and she looked at me and was like, you think this hurts? You're never going to be able to survive anything. And I was like, great, thanks, Mom.
[04:31]
Jackie Zabrowski
Thanks, Mom.
[04:33]
Natalie Jean
Like, you just have a crazy. All right. You're just over here squirting out babies without any medication. That's on you. Yeah, she's very strong. I'm very scared.
[04:44]
Jackie Zabrowski
Yeah, she's very tough.
[04:45]
Natalie Jean
Almost as tough as this other messenger. Yeah, very. I'm scared of you. Although, like, I think that Amelie would probably slice off your head and not think about it.
[04:54]
Jackie Zabrowski
Yeah, you're you. They're very menacing yet beautiful, Amelie.
[04:58]
Natalie Jean
Thank you. Except I keep having to pull my tight, tiny wig down. So, you know, I. I feel very sexy in these tight braids. Maybe you do need to teach me. I was going to just braid my hair, but I don't know how to braid hair. And then Natalie said, I'll teach you, but I feel like, am I too. Am I too old dog.
[05:18]
Jackie Zabrowski
No.
[05:20]
Natalie Jean
To learn how to Learn how to braid my own hair.
[05:22]
Jackie Zabrowski
You're going to be so irritated at how easy it is to braid, and you'll be like, oh, God damn it.
[05:28]
Natalie Jean
I should have been doing this the whole time because I like these two separate braids. What is this called? Italian.
[05:35]
Jackie Zabrowski
Well, I love the French braid.
[05:37]
Natalie Jean
French braid. I knew it was a country. I knew it was a culture of some sort.
[05:42]
Jackie Zabrowski
Italian braid.
[05:43]
Natalie Jean
I put the marinara in my.
[05:46]
Jackie Zabrowski
You smell great.
[05:47]
Natalie Jean
Thank you.
[05:49]
Jackie Zabrowski
Tomato. Great look for you. I love. I love a French braid. Pigtail. Like double.
[05:55]
Natalie Jean
Yes. Someone tried to teach me. My old Madeline tried to teach me. What is it? Swish, swishtail, swishtail.
[06:02]
Jackie Zabrowski
Like a. Like a fishtail.
[06:04]
Natalie Jean
Is it just called fishtail?
[06:05]
Jackie Zabrowski
You mean like, that kind of braid?
[06:06]
Natalie Jean
Yes.
[06:07]
Jackie Zabrowski
Yeah. I mean, that is a kind of braid.
[06:09]
Natalie Jean
Look at me. Oh, my God. Is she a braidsmith?
[06:12]
Jackie Zabrowski
Yes.
[06:12]
Natalie Jean
I guess I know everything about braids. And you'll all see. I'll be braiding in no time.
[06:17]
Jackie Zabrowski
You will. I. I promise you.
[06:19]
Natalie Jean
Thank you.
[06:20]
Jackie Zabrowski
I mean, you already have done lots of, like, stitching and sewing and all of the. The. The aspects of, like. What is it? Cross stitching and stuff.
[06:27]
Natalie Jean
Yeah, I do all those things.
[06:28]
Jackie Zabrowski
It's less complicated than that, I guess.
[06:30]
Natalie Jean
You know what it is? I always had very short hair for most of my life, so I just never learned. And then, you know, it kind of is embarrassing at some point to be like, I don't know how to do this. You'd think I'd be more embarrassed about the fact that I don't know how to ride a bike, but I'm not. I'm kind of brave about that.
[06:49]
Jackie Zabrowski
I don't think it's weird to not know how to braid if you didn't have long. A lot of people who didn't have long hair don't know how to braid.
[06:54]
Natalie Jean
Yeah. Just. I. Honestly, who I need to teach is my husband. I'd like him to do it for me.
[07:00]
Jackie Zabrowski
That would be very romantic.
[07:02]
Natalie Jean
Blade it. Yeah. I'll be nude.
[07:04]
Jackie Zabrowski
Yeah. It'll be like cello music playing.
[07:06]
Natalie Jean
Of course. And I think I'm gonna be covered in noodles, though.
[07:09]
Jackie Zabrowski
By candlelight.
[07:10]
Natalie Jean
Yes. It's gonna be very difficult for him to see. And I am gonna keep trying to shove spaghetti into his mouth, but they'll be covering my nipples, so he'll be fine with it.
[07:19]
Jackie Zabrowski
Why do I feel like this is Bryce and Hunt Canon in your mind right now?
[07:24]
Natalie Jean
Could be.
[07:25]
Jackie Zabrowski
I feel like it's not out of their wheelhouse.
[07:28]
Natalie Jean
You can't take what happens in my Brain. Oh, no, you can't.
[07:35]
Jackie Zabrowski
So where we last left off in Crescent City, remember?
[07:39]
Natalie Jean
Yeah, I remember.
[07:40]
Jackie Zabrowski
They've. They were on a little flirt, flirt mission.
[07:44]
Natalie Jean
Yeah, they were.
[07:45]
Jackie Zabrowski
But they have to face the facts that they're gonna need to talk to Sabine in person. That's not fun. But they also came up with the idea to talk to Hunt's river connection to see if there is any goings on amongst the mercy. Are you mad?
[08:02]
Natalie Jean
I'm still mad. I'm sorry, guys. I need to say it aloud. I'm so excited about my next costume, but my fin didn't arrive in time. All right? My tail didn't get here. So just prepare yourselves for the future.
[08:17]
Jackie Zabrowski
Your. Your anger is valid, but it is funny. We live and work in a job where that can be, like, one of the stressors of your week.
[08:25]
Natalie Jean
I literally. I cried about it yesterday when I found out that the tail wasn't going to be here in time. I cr. And then it is times like this when I'm crying about something like that or I'm crying about, like, a good put or something, I have to take a step back and be like, girl, there are bigger things in this life to be upset about. But, you know, sometimes I want to be upset still. Yeah, sometimes you just. Oh, the focus, it narrows, you know, and maybe you're not thinking about all the other things. You're just thinking about, where is my mermaid tail? But we are still gonna talk to him.
[08:58]
Jackie Zabrowski
And, you know, Kim Kardashian, her life is hard, too. And so when they're like, oh, there's people are, like, starving and there's people who need help. Well, she feels the same level of stress.
[09:08]
Natalie Jean
Yeah, she's stressed, too.
[09:10]
Jackie Zabrowski
She has stuff going on and.
[09:12]
Natalie Jean
Yeah, and she said that it's also difficult for her to be a parent, even though all of the kids have nannies.
[09:17]
Jackie Zabrowski
But, like, that's gotta be really hard to meet. Keep the schedules together. Like.
[09:21]
Natalie Jean
Yeah, how is she supposed to have, like, the nannies talk to the, you know, the chefs? Like, I don't know. Like, that's gotta be difficult. They must all have a sister. All right, so, no, I'm just busy. I'm busy crying about mermaid.
[09:36]
Jackie Zabrowski
No, you're very busy. You're a very busy lady. So they're at the river's edge, apparently awaiting Hunt's river connection. Bryce looks over the scene in front of us, the landscape, and gives us some context through her thoughts. She describes a bustling city moving around them. The river water clear but filled with Quote, centuries of Crescent City artifacts rusting away.
[10:00]
Natalie Jean
Cool.
[10:01]
Jackie Zabrowski
That's fun. Hunt asks if she's ever gone down to the Merpeople, which she has not, and thinks about how it's rare for land creatures to be invited into their closed off watery world. The Blue Court.
[10:15]
Natalie Jean
And it's not Waterworld. And no, nobody's pissing into cups. It's not gonna. It's not how we're starting this whole voyage.
[10:23]
Jackie Zabrowski
At least not for necessity. I don't know what they do in there.
[10:25]
Natalie Jean
You're right. I don't know where they put their piss. And I guess it just goes into the air that they breathe.
[10:31]
Jackie Zabrowski
The mar people.
[10:32]
Natalie Jean
The water that they breathe.
[10:34]
Jackie Zabrowski
I guess so.
[10:35]
Natalie Jean
Yeah. I guess they're just pissing in their own mouths.
[10:37]
Jackie Zabrowski
Well, like, fish pee, right?
[10:40]
Natalie Jean
Yeah. Out there. Gills, probably. I don't know what other kind of holes the fish has. We'd have to ask Tom Cruise.
[10:47]
Jackie Zabrowski
Do not. Oh, he knows all.
[10:48]
Natalie Jean
Oh, he knows every hole he can find.
[10:52]
Jackie Zabrowski
I'm just gonna say they do, and I'm not gonna check.
[10:55]
Natalie Jean
Okay.
[10:55]
Jackie Zabrowski
I like that no one tries to sneak in either, down in the Blue Court because they have a trove of creatures with big long teeth and claws guarding their kingdom. It's very mysterious. Not many land folk get invited down there.
[11:10]
Natalie Jean
An auburn head of hair broke the surface a couple hundred yards out, and a partially scaled muscled arm waved before vanishing, fingers tipped in sharp gray nails glinting in the sun.
[11:26]
Jackie Zabrowski
Well, that sounds like a muscled arm is showing up. Oh, yoo hoo.
[11:31]
Natalie Jean
I just imagined him making that sound. Hello. Hello, Hunt. And yeah, it's a bit of a Mrs. Doubtfire situation down there, but.
[11:44]
Jackie Zabrowski
We learn through. He does wear a different body at different times, so it is nostalgia.
[11:50]
Natalie Jean
How do you feel about a mare?
[11:54]
Jackie Zabrowski
Like, sexually?
[11:55]
Natalie Jean
Yeah, sexually.
[11:57]
Jackie Zabrowski
Pretty good, right?
[11:58]
Natalie Jean
Yeah, but here's the thing. Like, I never really, like. I know we haven't necessarily met Therian yet, but like, Therian was never really my type. But then in looking at the pictures of him in crafting the costume was like, oh, in my brain. I didn't put him in the hot category.
[12:13]
Jackie Zabrowski
Really?
[12:14]
Natalie Jean
Yeah. But now I do.
[12:16]
Jackie Zabrowski
Yeah.
[12:17]
Natalie Jean
Yeah. Oh, yeah. That's all. I'm just bringing that up because I never knew that, like, merfolk was a thing that I was into.
[12:24]
Jackie Zabrowski
Yeah, they have. So also these merfolk in this world.
[12:29]
Natalie Jean
Long hairs in my throat. Sorry.
[12:33]
Jackie Zabrowski
Just pulled out.
[12:34]
Natalie Jean
And whoever's watching the video just watched me pull it. A long hair, you know, it's like. Oh, it's kind of sexy, right, guys?
[12:45]
Jackie Zabrowski
So these merfolk in this world can shift to a humanoid body for short periods of times. Meaning that they have. Can they. They have leg somehow. Like, they can come. They can turn from fishes into people more for short periods of time, but they have to be submerged in water for an undisclosed amount of time or they risk never being able to turn back into water creatures.
[13:09]
Natalie Jean
Honestly, I kind of love that these are, like, nebulous rules. It's so much easier. Thank you, sjm. It's for the. Rather than. It's like, oh, I've got 20 seconds. I've got to get back on the wall. Like, I feel like it would have just added. We already are in a high anxiety book. You know what I mean?
[13:25]
Jackie Zabrowski
Oh, yeah. Ye. Yeah. I don't need to know.
[13:28]
Natalie Jean
No.
[13:30]
Jackie Zabrowski
So most mer would rather die than not be under the sea, you know, so they very much don't want that to happen. What do you think happens to their penis shrivels? It just goes. Like, when their legs morph back into a fin, do you think it just goes inside somehow?
[13:49]
Natalie Jean
I guess it does. Because, like, they must be able to reproduce outside of their humanoid body. I would assume, since they spend most of their time underwater and we've never really heard the rule that, like, you gotta be out of the water if you want to have some fun. You know what I mean? Or whatever.
[14:06]
Jackie Zabrowski
No, I don't mind.
[14:07]
Natalie Jean
They would come up with.
[14:09]
Jackie Zabrowski
I don't think that is part of the. The lore. That's.
[14:13]
Natalie Jean
Why do they. Do you think that their genitals do, like, are they created or is it like a. Like a Barbie Ken situation?
[14:21]
Jackie Zabrowski
Well, fish. Okay. Another fish fact that I'm definitely.
[14:25]
Natalie Jean
I don't love making up fish facts. Tell me about it.
[14:28]
Jackie Zabrowski
Don't they not. Don't they leave? Don't they, like, get fertilized outside? They don't have.
[14:33]
Natalie Jean
Oh, they squirt the eggs and they squirt their stuff on the egg.
[14:36]
Jackie Zabrowski
Yeah. Like, they don't bone. Do you think that's how they do, the MERP folks?
[14:41]
Natalie Jean
Maybe they do. I don't know. We know we never saw the origin story of the Little Mermaid and how. I mean, I would love to watch King Triton at any point.
[14:51]
Jackie Zabrowski
I'm sure you can find that on the Internet somewhere.
[14:54]
Natalie Jean
I just. I don't want to see how they're gonna do it. I just want it to be, like, nice in my head. You know what I mean?
[15:00]
Jackie Zabrowski
Yeah. Because they're probably gonna do something real gross.
[15:02]
Natalie Jean
That's the thing. And I don't want that image to be destroyed, but you want it to.
[15:07]
Jackie Zabrowski
Be sensual, romantic, passionate lovemaking with King Triton.
[15:11]
Natalie Jean
Yeah. I've told you many times, I want to dress as young Ursula because I feel that young Ursula and King Triton had a feeling fling back in college. And I'd love for Jeff to dress as him and for me to dress as young Ursula and for us to fuck it out.
[15:27]
Jackie Zabrowski
I support you. I don't think that you shouldn't.
[15:30]
Natalie Jean
Right, that's what I'm saying. But I kind of want to write it into a whole thing. And I don't want to really, like, write, produce, star in my own pornographic picture, but.
[15:40]
Jackie Zabrowski
All right, well, if you don't want to do the work.
[15:42]
Natalie Jean
I'm just saying, should I pitch it to LPN and see if LPN wants to produce it?
[15:48]
Jackie Zabrowski
Oh, my God, yeah. With all your family. Family, yeah.
[15:51]
Natalie Jean
But, like, you guys support me, don't you?
[15:53]
Jackie Zabrowski
You don't judge me. I will not shame you.
[15:56]
Natalie Jean
Thank you. Sexy, sexy Therian. He's a sexy, sexy merman.
[16:02]
Jackie Zabrowski
Yeah. So we're getting our first glimpses of a little gentleman named Therian Ketos, a character who will be making far more appearances in this tale. And he's described as having a coppery looking tail with black stripes slash through his human parts of his body and up his arms. Sort of like a, quote, aquatic tiger.
[16:24]
Natalie Jean
Cool.
[16:25]
Jackie Zabrowski
And he's got auburn hair, I believe.
[16:28]
Natalie Jean
Oh, yeah.
[16:29]
Jackie Zabrowski
And a tan chest.
[16:31]
Natalie Jean
Oh, yeah.
[16:32]
Jackie Zabrowski
We get the immediate impression that Hunt and Tharion have an easy ish relationship. At least as far as for Hunt goes. He doesn't make friends easy, but they're like friendly ish with each other and that we get it right away that Tharion is a bit of a dog.
[16:47]
Natalie Jean
Mm.
[16:48]
Jackie Zabrowski
He immediately starts to flirt with Bryce, which doesn't seem to please Hunt. We're with Hunt's POV now as we watch Tharion shift his gills off behind his ears. So he basically their morphing makes it so that their gills close when they hit the air, and then they can just breathe like a man.
[17:07]
Natalie Jean
Man, that's cool. I guess it's not. Man, that's cool, Mayor. That's cool.
[17:14]
Jackie Zabrowski
That would be a cool ass superpower. I would want. I would want that because I think the ocean is cool as hell. I know that it's scary.
[17:22]
Natalie Jean
I'm very scared of it.
[17:23]
Jackie Zabrowski
But I'd want to see all this stuff.
[17:25]
Natalie Jean
Aren't there aliens that live under the water now? Isn't this, like, the new thing? Isn't that What? Everybody that's anybody is like, but did you see the proof of the aliens that live under the water? And we, we already knew that. That they're called huge squids.
[17:37]
Jackie Zabrowski
Yeah.
[17:37]
Natalie Jean
I mean, like, I feel like in my brain when I saw that on Tick Tock, I was like, yeah, duh. What do you think is down. What do you think is down there?
[17:44]
Jackie Zabrowski
I mean, have you ever seen deep sea creatures? I love it. I'm obsessed with deep sea creatures.
[17:48]
Natalie Jean
And they are very, very. They're like awesomely scary.
[17:51]
Jackie Zabrowski
Yeah. And we're still discover. We don't know everything that's down there still. Like, we don't. We don't know a lot about the bottom of the ocean, so it might as well be aliens.
[17:59]
Natalie Jean
Yo.
[18:00]
Jackie Zabrowski
I was just looking at sponges that can live up to 15,000 years. Like, there are some that are alive right now that were alive 15,000 years ago.
[18:09]
Natalie Jean
How do they even test that? They go, are you a dino sponge?
[18:13]
Jackie Zabrowski
Did you see?
[18:13]
Natalie Jean
No. Dinosaur sponge.
[18:15]
Jackie Zabrowski
How old are you? When's your birthday? I assume.
[18:20]
Natalie Jean
Yeah, that's. Yeah, just ask him.
[18:22]
Jackie Zabrowski
So he shifts his gills off and he pulls himself up to the concrete wall that Hunt and Brace are standing on at the edge of the water.
[18:31]
Natalie Jean
He patted the now wet concrete next to him and winked at Bryce.
[18:35]
Jackie Zabrowski
Take a seat, Legs, and tell me all about it.
[18:38]
Natalie Jean
There is. Man, I will say something about a mayor. Calling me legs would also weirdly make me slip. There's something about. I'm just like, stop, Stop. Yeah, but I imagine he probably would call any like, hot piece ass that's on the earth, you know, I guess on call them legs.
[19:00]
Jackie Zabrowski
I, I mean, I don't know. But as a tall lady, Legs is definitely something I get called, or I.
[19:05]
Natalie Jean
Did as a young. How do you feel about it?
[19:08]
Jackie Zabrowski
Fine.
[19:08]
Natalie Jean
Oh, you don't like legs?
[19:10]
Jackie Zabrowski
Oh, I don't care. I, I'm. I don't feel like I've earned it in any way because I'm just tall without long legs. There was a crew of people in Philly who used to call me Party Legs. That was one of my nicknames for a while.
[19:22]
Natalie Jean
Oh, that's a really good nickname. Bring it back.
[19:25]
Jackie Zabrowski
I don't. I feel like I'd be. I'm not a partier anymore. So, like a lie.
[19:29]
Natalie Jean
Well, maybe just start pouring booze on your legs and be like, well, the legs are still going.
[19:34]
Jackie Zabrowski
Oh, it's so sticky.
[19:35]
Natalie Jean
Yeah, you'll be very sticky, but you'll be very cute as an otter with little sticky legs.
[19:41]
Jackie Zabrowski
Hunts annoyed by Bryce laughing back at these, like, basically flirting back with the. The merman. And she seems pretty intrigued by him. And the annoyance in Han sends him into a flurry of memories of last night and his inability to stop thinking about Bryce's left nightstand as he tried to go to sleep.
[20:01]
Natalie Jean
Interesting.
[20:02]
Jackie Zabrowski
And then earlier this morning, when he came out to get Bryce from her room and she caught him looking at the drawer.
[20:08]
Natalie Jean
Hunt, you gotta be more chill than that, bro.
[20:12]
Jackie Zabrowski
She was delighted by his embarrassment.
[20:14]
Natalie Jean
Of course she was.
[20:17]
Jackie Zabrowski
She takes a seat next to Tharion on the water's edge and puts her bare feet in the water. And, you know, that's gotta hunt. That's gotta hurt. Hunt.
[20:24]
Natalie Jean
Oh, no, she's sharing the feet.
[20:27]
Jackie Zabrowski
She is sharing her feet.
[20:28]
Natalie Jean
Oh, my God. Although I imagine the Blue Court probably. Do you think that they would be weirded out by or, like, not like it when people would put their feet in the water?
[20:40]
Jackie Zabrowski
Well, no, I don't think so.
[20:42]
Natalie Jean
That's fine.
[20:43]
Jackie Zabrowski
Yeah. There's all kinds of crap in there, you know.
[20:45]
Natalie Jean
Yeah.
[20:45]
Jackie Zabrowski
Like literally sewage.
[20:46]
Natalie Jean
Ugh. Yeah. They're breathing it in.
[20:48]
Jackie Zabrowski
Yep. We get fact. Fish fact. Also, I bet some of the mer have weird foot things too. I mean, perfectly acceptable foot things.
[20:56]
Natalie Jean
Well, especially. Yeah. Because they don't have them, so they must be so drawn to them.
[21:00]
Jackie Zabrowski
Remember how much Ariel was obsessed with feet?
[21:03]
Natalie Jean
You're right. And in Splash.
[21:05]
Jackie Zabrowski
Yep.
[21:05]
Natalie Jean
I'm kind of scared to re. Watch Splash.
[21:09]
Jackie Zabrowski
I feel like that could be good. That might be valid.
[21:11]
Natalie Jean
You think? You might. Right? I. I feel like I don't remember it enough from when I was a kid that I'm like, there were easily. Could be lots in that movie that don't hold up, you know?
[21:24]
Jackie Zabrowski
Yeah, I imagine. But she's so beautiful. What's her name?
[21:29]
Natalie Jean
Oh, God. Neil Young's Paramore. Yeah, I said it. That's what I see her as now. Neil Young, Shelley duo. Yeah.
[21:38]
Jackie Zabrowski
What?
[21:38]
Natalie Jean
Yeah, she bangs Neil Young. Well, I have to look it up now. I have to look it up. Daryl Hannah.
[21:43]
Jackie Zabrowski
Daryl Hannah. So wait, Daryl Hannah's with Neil Young?
[21:47]
Natalie Jean
Yeah.
[21:47]
Jackie Zabrowski
Bro, I didn't know that.
[21:49]
Natalie Jean
Oh, yeah. I think that they're still together. They were there. They were old together for a long time, so I'm fairly sure they're still together.
[21:57]
Jackie Zabrowski
She's total baddie, remember? And Kill Bill.
[21:59]
Natalie Jean
Yeah. Dude, Daryl Hannah could do anything to me anytime.
[22:03]
Jackie Zabrowski
Oh, yeah.
[22:04]
Natalie Jean
Good Lord. Because also, like, she got, like, a lot of work done, but I still think that she is beautiful. Oh, yeah.
[22:10]
Jackie Zabrowski
Oh, she's freaking stunning. Are you Kidding.
[22:13]
Natalie Jean
But, man, back in the day. Good Lord. Hachi machi. Let's go back to Stop Jackie. Let's go back to Sexualizers of Daryl Hannah.
[22:21]
Jackie Zabrowski
We gotta go back to sexualizing Therian.
[22:22]
Natalie Jean
All right, all right. We're sexualizing Therian.
[22:25]
Jackie Zabrowski
We get a sense of this. Mer Therian is. As he and Bryce exchange brisk banter. And so he's very casual, he's very flirty. And we learn that he's the River Queen's captain of intelligence. On top of that, Tharion winks at her and threatens to pull her beneath.
[22:46]
Natalie Jean
Hunt gave Tharion a warning look. Some of the darker mare had done just that long ago. Carried human brides down to their undersea courts and kept them there, trapped within the massive air bubbles that contain parts of their palaces and cities, unable to reach the surface. So it's not a cool joke, Tharion.
[23:09]
Jackie Zabrowski
It's not funny.
[23:11]
Natalie Jean
Not to Hunt, man. Oh, I love how protective he is.
[23:15]
Jackie Zabrowski
Also, that's an interesting sort of gender reversal of the human lore, the Earth lore. Cause usually it's women mer dragging down sailors.
[23:27]
Natalie Jean
Right. The siren song, the sirens.
[23:29]
Jackie Zabrowski
Yeah, there might be some lore somewhere. I've never seen it, that it's men mer taking women. But usually we see it the other way. Hunt also thinks about the River Queen.
[23:40]
Natalie Jean
Yeah, you are right. I never thought about that with this.
[23:43]
Jackie Zabrowski
Yeah.
[23:43]
Natalie Jean
But it's kind of fun, though.
[23:45]
Jackie Zabrowski
Oh, yeah.
[23:45]
Natalie Jean
Because then immediately it's like, no, no. Like, I wonder if that's gonna come back around at some point.
[23:51]
Jackie Zabrowski
You know what I mean?
[23:54]
Natalie Jean
All right, sorry. Oh, is that not what you want to just listen to me going?
[23:59]
Jackie Zabrowski
Well, I think I love hearing you, ponder.
[24:02]
Natalie Jean
Thank you.
[24:03]
Jackie Zabrowski
So as he's going through the thoughts about all of the. You know, we're getting some exposition, and we're getting some backstory about the queen and the mer world. And he's thinking about the River Queen, who is obviously the Queen of the Istros, and how she is the sister to what is known as the Ocean Queen, both of whom are purported to be the daughters of the goddess Oginus, I believe. I don't think that that comes from anything. I didn't see it. Wait, let me look real quick.
[24:36]
Natalie Jean
I can't remember what the audiobook says. Ojinus.
[24:39]
Jackie Zabrowski
Ajna.
[24:40]
Natalie Jean
Oh, I get it all the time. Should need so much citrus.
[24:47]
Jackie Zabrowski
Yeah, it does look a little bit like Ajna. I think it's just sort of like a play on other, like, gods and goddesses. There's one called Oceanus. So I think it's just a little spin upon. Hunt is not sure. It's interesting how they kind of like meld in the idea that there is all this mythical, mystical stuff, but they also still have lore and fables, and so he's not even sure if they are daughters of the goddess or if.
[25:17]
Natalie Jean
It was just a fable.
[25:18]
Jackie Zabrowski
Yeah, but it's enough of a possibility that even Micah doesn't step on the River Queen's toes. Or I guess fin.
[25:32]
Natalie Jean
I'd be very scared of any kind of royalty that lived below the waters. Yes.
[25:37]
Jackie Zabrowski
Yeah.
[25:37]
Natalie Jean
I. That is a whole world I do not understand. I would not touch it. I'm glad that Micah is scared of her as well.
[25:43]
Jackie Zabrowski
He deserves to be scared because he's a meanie.
[25:46]
Natalie Jean
Meanie head.
[25:47]
Jackie Zabrowski
Hunt gets down to business to defeat the hunt.
[25:54]
Natalie Jean
I was let's get down to business to defeat the Huns from Mulan.
[25:59]
Jackie Zabrowski
Oh, I don't know.
[26:00]
Natalie Jean
That's okay. It didn't really work in the situation anyway, and I don't know why I said it, but sometimes men mouth wants what the mouth wants.
[26:08]
Jackie Zabrowski
Yep. Sometimes you just have to wait for your mouth to say the things.
[26:10]
Natalie Jean
Yeah. And then you apologize as a good woman should. I'm sorry.
[26:16]
Jackie Zabrowski
I'm so sorry.
[26:17]
Natalie Jean
I'm sorry. Sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. Sorry for existing.
[26:19]
Jackie Zabrowski
Especially millennial women.
[26:21]
Natalie Jean
I'm sorry. Every email I I see, I saw some meme that was like, you know, you're talking to like a millennial woman with the amount of exclamation points and the amount of apologies. Started looking at every single one of my emails was like, oh, no, I'm a meme.
[26:37]
Jackie Zabrowski
That's okay.
[26:38]
Natalie Jean
Yeah, it's fine. I like enthusiasm and I like to be sorry.
[26:44]
Jackie Zabrowski
I like apologizing for my existence. Hunt gets down to business. Have the mer seen anything unusual lately? That's why they're there. They want to talk to Tharion about if he's seen stuff. Tharion shifts into work mode, and Hunt notes that despite his merry disposition, Tharion and the mer can be deadly when they need to be. He asks them if this is in reference to the other night when the Viper Queen pulled her people off the street. Hunt affirms cautiously, not wanting to give too much away. Tharion tells them he'll ask around. Hunt tells him to warn his people and reveals what they know about the hell demon. The crystal. This shakes Tharion up, helping the reader understand that this isn't a normal occurrence in this magical world. The fact that this demon is loose is like bad, bad Bad. It's like. It's sort of like. I feel as though the Men in Black, like the movie, how they're all chasing after the aliens all the time, but nobody knows. And if they did know, be like this big. Horrible.
[28:05]
Natalie Jean
Yeah, well, because this is huge. The fact that they, like, need to figure out how to track it, how to control it, how to kill it. Like, this is. And also, where is it coming from? This is. Yeah. It's a bit of an intense situation. Yeah.
[28:20]
Jackie Zabrowski
Their attention is snagged by a boat passing by someone on their final sailing as a reminder what a sailing is. This happens when a civitas dies. I don't think humans get them. I was trying to figure out if there's if that set. I guess they do. No, no, because Bryce. Because I was thinking about Bryce, but Bryce is a civitas now. I don't think humans get the sailing, but I don't know if that's ever been clarified.
[28:46]
Natalie Jean
Okay. I mean, it would make sense, sadly, in this world if human didn't. Like, if humans did.
[28:52]
Jackie Zabrowski
Yeah.
[28:52]
Natalie Jean
So I would assume that not saying anything is. Is our answer.
[28:58]
Jackie Zabrowski
I also. But the idea. And we'll learn a little bit more about the sailing, as in this episode, actually. But the idea of it sounds scary because they don't know what happens in the bone quarter.
[29:10]
Natalie Jean
Nah, man. They just send them right off.
[29:12]
Jackie Zabrowski
That's terrifying.
[29:13]
Natalie Jean
Yeah, yeah, yeah. But I mean, honestly, all of it is going into a great unknown, right?
[29:19]
Jackie Zabrowski
Yeah, but like, we have no. If we had a gateway with, like, fog in front of it in the human world where people go and they die. That would be real scary to look at it.
[29:31]
Natalie Jean
Yeah.
[29:32]
Jackie Zabrowski
Like, oh, I can physically see what's here, but I don't know what happens. It's just like, ominously there.
[29:39]
Natalie Jean
Yeah. Forever. That you can always think about. But, like, I feel like it would be. I wonder how much. And like, I guess you wouldn't be able to, you know, like the intrusive thoughts of, like, what if I should throw myself in there?
[29:51]
Jackie Zabrowski
Yeah.
[29:51]
Natalie Jean
What if I just. Like, what if I just see. What if I just gotta go and.
[29:55]
Jackie Zabrowski
You know, some YouTube is gonna go.
[29:56]
Natalie Jean
In there with the Jake Paul's.
[29:59]
Jackie Zabrowski
Oh, I wish.
[30:00]
Natalie Jean
I wish Quarter.
[30:03]
Jackie Zabrowski
So.
[30:04]
Natalie Jean
Yeah, that would be really scary. Yeah.
[30:06]
Jackie Zabrowski
They either. When the sailing happens, they either go on to enter through the bone gates, which is good. Honorable. Or the boat tips and the body is taken by the gnashing river creatures waiting below. Which means it's bad and shameful. Some mysterious hand of some God makes the decision, apparently we don't really know exactly how or why that's chosen in that way. Their attention again turns to right behind. So they've been like, looking out at this sailing. They're. They're distracted by it because somebody's having essentially a funeral by them. And then their attention is again turned to right behind them as an otter in a little yellow vest carrying an envelope in its little mouth waddles past them and slides into the water.
[30:49]
Natalie Jean
Natalie, please.
[30:51]
Jackie Zabrowski
I should have brought an envelope.
[30:52]
Natalie Jean
Oh my God. How dare you. Yeah, there it is. There it is.
[30:57]
Jackie Zabrowski
Splash.
[30:59]
Natalie Jean
Bryce bit her lip, a high pitched squeal cracking from her. The fearless fuzzy messengers were hard to resist, even for hunt. While true animals and not shifters, they possessed an uncanny level of intelligence, thanks to the old magic in their veins.
[31:17]
Jackie Zabrowski
I wonder how they got magic cool.
[31:19]
Natalie Jean
I don't know, but it's really awesome.
[31:21]
Jackie Zabrowski
Have you, you've seen otters in person? Probably. They are ridiculously cute. So cute.
[31:28]
Natalie Jean
And actually, weirdly enough, I guess this is a fine thing to say. In Florida, you always know if a lake has gators in it, because if it's got gators in it, there ain't no otters left. But when there's otters in it, then you know there ain't no gators in it. So it's kind of like a good litmus test.
[31:45]
Jackie Zabrowski
Oh, I actually didn't even think about in Florida. You have like wild otters down there.
[31:51]
Natalie Jean
Yeah, I did not grow up around.
[31:52]
Jackie Zabrowski
Them except in like a zoo.
[31:54]
Natalie Jean
No, they're like chittering and like, they're like play together and it's so. Oh my God, I want to see wild otters. Oh, my God. But then you think about, like, how many of them get eaten by the alligators, but somebody's gotta feed the gators. It is the circle of life. But it's just weird that, you know, we're talking about otters so much today because literally yesterday Jeff was like, what if we became instead of humans, we became otters? And then we just lived our life holding each other's hands and floating down a river together. And I wanted to die. I thought it was the cutest thing he'd ever fucking said.
[32:26]
Jackie Zabrowski
It sounds nihilistic. Is he trying to be. Trying to move on from here?
[32:30]
Natalie Jean
I think we're just ready, you know, I think we're just ready for some. Some river peace, you know?
[32:36]
Jackie Zabrowski
I feel like I've heard that otters are, are mean if you try to like. I'm sure they don't want to be talking to you.
[32:42]
Natalie Jean
No, no, no, no. But that's why that if we become the otters, then the other otters. The dog does. Yeah.
[32:47]
Jackie Zabrowski
And they do. They do hold hands to keep themselves steady when they flow.
[32:51]
Natalie Jean
They keep themselves together. Yeah, they hold hands. Oh, my God. Good luck, guys. You just lost. I just wrote you a prescription. You just lost six hours of time watching Otter videos. I just say, Dr. Jackie gave me this prescription. I've got to do it. Tell whatever your partner. I gotta watch all these otter videos.
[33:12]
Jackie Zabrowski
Sorry, I mean, I'm gonna. Afterwards.
[33:14]
Natalie Jean
Yes.
[33:15]
Jackie Zabrowski
So these otters become the messengers of this world. They're like city messengers. And it seems to be one of the only creatures who regularly visits the bone quarters because they deliver there as well. Which is really weird because whatever's behind there needs mail. But.
[33:31]
Natalie Jean
Yeah.
[33:32]
Jackie Zabrowski
Hey, I don't know how these things work.
[33:34]
Natalie Jean
They gotta get messages somehow. All of this is, like, starting to, like, fuse in my brain because I saw Wicked the other day and just keep thinking about, like, Wicked and the. I don't know if you under know, like, the story of Wicked outside of the witches. But, like, I don't remember.
[33:49]
Jackie Zabrowski
I read it once. I don't remember the book.
[33:52]
Natalie Jean
Not so much. It's like the. It's like the book is very upsetting. The musical is very different, but all with like, the animals and them losing, like, the. Like, the animals are human, like, and then they're losing their human, like, qualities and things like that. And I've got nothing to say towards it. I just think about the otters in this and like, oh, I wonder if at any point, like, did they have more magic? Were they like, put down? Because, you know, it's like, you think about like, the sprites.
[34:19]
Jackie Zabrowski
Yeah.
[34:20]
Natalie Jean
Like, the sprites were like, put down to lower levels. And I know that we're not saying that the otters are slaves in this instance, but, like, I just think about all of the different ways in which. Because this is so far in the future of how things have changed. And this has nothing to do with the story. It's just something that I'm.
[34:38]
Jackie Zabrowski
You're pondering. I love hearing you ponder.
[34:39]
Natalie Jean
Thank you. Thank you.
[34:41]
Jackie Zabrowski
Is the Wicked musical like Flowers for Algernon? Is it just like it?
[34:47]
Natalie Jean
Yeah, just like it with the lady with the red hair too, you know, it really is. It's Flowers for Algernon. I read Flowers for Algernon too many times. Never get sad. I read it again.
[35:00]
Jackie Zabrowski
Yeah. You like being more sad when you're sad?
[35:03]
Natalie Jean
Yeah, I do. I just, like, pull me down into it. Take me away. Depression is that bad? I have a therapist. It's fine.
[35:13]
Jackie Zabrowski
The males seem amused. The males seem amused by her delight. And she tells them they were one of the reasons she was determined to move to Crescent City when she was younger, because they are exclusive to Crescent City and she loved them so much. Hunt tells Therian to keep them posted if he hears anything. Bryce and Tharion exchange a couple more flirty back and forths, and then they watch him swim away, down towards the twinkling lights of the blue court deep in the water. Bryce.
[35:41]
Natalie Jean
Bye, Tharian.
[35:43]
Jackie Zabrowski
Bye. Bye.
[35:44]
Natalie Jean
Like to watch his fin as he leaves, swim away. I again look up pictures of Tharion. If you want to remind yourself how.
[35:52]
Jackie Zabrowski
Hot he is, why have you not already?
[35:54]
Natalie Jean
I don't know why I hadn't been. I think I was so. There's so many attractive people in this book that, like, even my horniness, I can't thirst for them all at the same time.
[36:05]
Jackie Zabrowski
I think I looked him up pretty early on because I love mermaids in general. The Little Mermaid was my first ballet. The. The fable version, not the Disney version.
[36:14]
Natalie Jean
Yeah. Oh, my God, the creepy version.
[36:17]
Jackie Zabrowski
Yeah. It was in the cast, all under 10 years old. And my ballet teacher did the suicide and stuff at the end.
[36:25]
Natalie Jean
Wait, so then it was all kids until the end, and then they brought in adults to do the. The killing?
[36:30]
Jackie Zabrowski
No.
[36:30]
Natalie Jean
Oh, okay.
[36:31]
Jackie Zabrowski
No, the kids did it.
[36:33]
Natalie Jean
That's awesome. Hell, yeah.
[36:36]
Jackie Zabrowski
The original fable of the Little Mermaid involved involves her when. So the prince actually falls in love with the other woman who comes in.
[36:44]
Natalie Jean
And the Ursula.
[36:46]
Jackie Zabrowski
The Ursula, but the Earth, it's not really Ursula in the fable. And so she is sad and she reaches out to her sisters, and sisters go down and sell all their hair to the sea witch to get her to get her fins back. And so they all have short hair when they come back, and they have a knife for the Little mermaid. And they say, she said, you can come back down and be a mermaid again if you. You stab the prince and let his blood run onto your feet. And then they'll turn back to Finn's and you can go live with us again. And she goes to do it, and she can't because she loves him too much. So she stabs herself and flings herself off the side of the boat and turns into sea foam and lives.
[37:21]
Natalie Jean
Talk about therapist. I mean, just talk to somebody for a second. Get a second opinion if we can figure something else out.
[37:30]
Jackie Zabrowski
That was the version we did when.
[37:31]
Natalie Jean
I was five Hell yeah, man. Hell yeah. Look at those kids twirling around. Stab, stab, stab, dab, Twirl, twirl, twirl. That's all you need.
[37:38]
Jackie Zabrowski
It might explain a lot about me as a person.
[37:41]
Natalie Jean
Yeah. And I think that anyone that was into like the Grims fairy tale, like those kind of like fables and things like that. Especially when you were younger. I feel like I was always drawn towards those people because I was like, oh yeah, you're all up too. Yeah, yeah. Hell yeah.
[37:57]
Jackie Zabrowski
Yeah, definitely. He dips back down into his court and Bryce laughs and calls Tharion a charmer to Hunt as he helps her her haul her back to her feet. Their tones turn somber though as Hunt recalls that he had met Tharion when they were investigating a string of mer murders. Therian's sister was unfortunately one of the victims, which is pretty heavy.
[38:27]
Natalie Jean
Yeah.
[38:27]
Jackie Zabrowski
However, they managed to capture the sadistic panther shifter who was doing it and left him to Therian to exactly act justice.
[38:34]
Natalie Jean
Hell yeah.
[38:35]
Jackie Zabrowski
There are a lot of sibling deaths in SJM books.
[38:40]
Natalie Jean
Yeah.
[38:41]
Jackie Zabrowski
Somebody else from ACOTAR lost their sister to a murder and I do wonder.
[38:45]
Natalie Jean
If that comes to. I know that like SJM randomly discusses her childhood and knowing very sparse about it. Yes. And. And I do. I. I'm so curious as to what her relationship is because I know that she was adopted, but like does she have. I never really looked into.
[39:02]
Jackie Zabrowski
I don't know if she has sibling. She doesn't talk about it.
[39:04]
Natalie Jean
Right. She's never brought that up before. So I am curious. Maybe it's something she always wanted and that's why she discusses it so much and because I mean sibling relationships are huge in her books.
[39:16]
Jackie Zabrowski
Definitely.
[39:17]
Natalie Jean
And I. You know, I'm so curious. I wonder if that comes from something that she always desperately wanted.
[39:23]
Jackie Zabrowski
I think that could totally be the case. She. She. I'm thinking back in all of her acknowledgments she talks about her mother and father, but I can't remember her ever mentioning siblings. So my guess would be no.
[39:36]
Natalie Jean
Right.
[39:38]
Jackie Zabrowski
But she really doesn't like to reveal personal stuff about herself. So.
[39:42]
Natalie Jean
I know. Which is why I like try not to look in. I honestly didn't even know she had kids for a really long time. Just because I know. I love look.
[39:48]
Jackie Zabrowski
But I love that about her.
[39:49]
Natalie Jean
I know. And I just didn't look. I love that I didn't know. I love.
[39:53]
Jackie Zabrowski
The covers are not. She covers her children's faces if she ever posts them. Which I highly recommend to any of you as I do a Very dark podcast. And child safety is very important. You should try to hide your kid's face as much as possible when you're posting.
[40:07]
Natalie Jean
She's a younger brother. Oh, she doesn't have sisters. Always wanted sisters.
[40:12]
Jackie Zabrowski
She has a younger brother.
[40:13]
Natalie Jean
She's got a younger brother.
[40:15]
Jackie Zabrowski
She doesn't talk about him.
[40:16]
Natalie Jean
No.
[40:17]
Jackie Zabrowski
What is he, some kind of bad seed?
[40:19]
Natalie Jean
Oh, is he a bad seed? Oh, man. Do you ever see the movie the Bad Seed?
[40:24]
Jackie Zabrowski
I love the bad seed.
[40:25]
Natalie Jean
Yeah. Hell, yeah. And again, maybe that's why I'm so scared of kids singing in anything. I don't like it when kids sing. I don't like it in real life when kids sing. That's what I'm saying. That or like the one. No. And it's just like, God, don't do that. Apparently, she's very different from her younger brother, so I didn't know that.
[40:53]
Jackie Zabrowski
No.
[40:53]
Natalie Jean
Wow. That's why maybe she doesn't talk about him.
[40:55]
Jackie Zabrowski
Huh? Maybe he is a bad seed.
[40:58]
Natalie Jean
Fish fact.
[40:59]
Jackie Zabrowski
I've got the prettiest mother, everyone says. So.
[41:05]
Natalie Jean
Just start saying that randomly to Henry. Just like in the house. Just like, around corners. I am the prettiest mother, everyone says so just to see, you know, how he reacts. Keep him on his toes, I always say.
[41:17]
Jackie Zabrowski
Yeah, I like it to make him a little bit scared.
[41:19]
Natalie Jean
Always, at all times.
[41:21]
Jackie Zabrowski
So, unfortunately, Therian has lost his sister. And this was only a year ago. And they cat, they caught this panther shifter. They don't say much about him, but we do learn that Tharion was left in a. Alone in a room with him. And they don't know what happened, but probably he did.
[41:38]
Natalie Jean
I mean, it seems like, you know, back in the day, a lot of the punishment came down to, like, the. The offended family or. Or their family, like, taking care. I was watching this YouTube video on Icelandic witches yesterday, and it was discussing that, like, in the old, like, the way that Iceland used to be run, which was, you know, there was no, like, being, you know, unlawful. I forgot what the. Exactly what the word was is like, meaning that, like, you are not protected by the law whatsoever anymore. And now whatever's gonna happen to you, it's gonna happen. Yeah.
[42:11]
Jackie Zabrowski
Whoa.
[42:12]
Natalie Jean
It's like, whoa. Yikes. Yikes. Very scary.
[42:16]
Jackie Zabrowski
Yeah. I feel like as much as that sounds tempting, I think that it's good that we hear that.
[42:21]
Natalie Jean
It's probably for the best. It's probably for the best. We can't do that. But also, Icelandic witches are cool as shit. Yeah.
[42:27]
Jackie Zabrowski
Also, please give me more Icelandic witches.
[42:30]
Natalie Jean
Yeah.
[42:30]
Jackie Zabrowski
Dude, later that day, they're back at the gallery, this time on the showroom floor as Bryce does some computer work for Jesiba while Hunt sits across from her at her desk going over evidence.
[42:42]
Natalie Jean
God, there's so many characters. Like, I forget. And then I'm like, oh, yeah, fucking Jesiba.
[42:46]
Jackie Zabrowski
Yes, I've already. I have a Jespa 2.0. Because I didn't hate my first Jespa, but I'm like, improving upon it. I'm excited for my next go abouts.
[42:56]
Natalie Jean
This is the beauty of doing so many costumes and this book being so long is we really have the opportunity to circle back. You know, we're gonna.
[43:05]
Jackie Zabrowski
Don't you worry.
[43:05]
Natalie Jean
Oh, we're gonna.
[43:07]
Jackie Zabrowski
So he's just sitting across from her. He's looking down at his phone as she's on her computer. Or she's supposed to be looking at her computer because. But she keeps getting distracted by the strands of hair falling over his face as he's looking down at the photos. Just then, Hunt looks up and declares that they are going to need to work on more info about Sabine, which obviously we already know, right? Apparently, heeding Isaiah's warning that he can't just throw her name in there all willy nilly, he's mulling over this and going, we really need to find evidence if we're going to accuse her.
[43:39]
Natalie Jean
Yeah, especially because it's already been so much time. So, like, you gotta be really sure before you start pointing fingers, especially at.
[43:47]
Jackie Zabrowski
Old sabitch over there.
[43:48]
Natalie Jean
Yeah. Oh, good one.
[43:51]
Jackie Zabrowski
Bryce is not happy about it, but knows that she needs to. The talk about this makes Hunt look over at the leather jacket she wears and asks what that's about. She tells him about the tattoos that she and Danika got, how Danika chose this ancient language. And we learn that that was apparently all the Oracle had said to Danika on her tween visit. So when Danika went in to see the Oracle, all she said was, through love, all is possible. After Danika died, she kept the jacket that Danika always wore, which, I mean, that makes sense. Like, when your best friend dies, you keep the thing wearing of time memory. But yeah, I forgot about that until this. Reread that, that this is the thing that Oracle said to Danika. Hunt opens up from this, like, sort of reveal this private information from Bryce. He opens up about the sunball hat that she teases him over. He reveals it was the first purchase he made with his first check from Micah. He chose it because of how ordinary it seems, because if you remember, he went from being a literal slave in a dungeon, being tortured, then going and, like, having to do murders for Sandriel.
[45:05]
Natalie Jean
Good Lord.
[45:06]
Jackie Zabrowski
And he comes over to Micah still having to commit murders for his job, but he gets a paycheck in a house and, like. Or, like, an apartment or whatever.
[45:13]
Natalie Jean
He's not just being tortured every second of every day.
[45:16]
Jackie Zabrowski
And he gets downtime. He gets, like, out office hours.
[45:19]
Natalie Jean
To live a life. I mean, as much of a life as you can live with your powers being completely, you know, almost muted.
[45:26]
Jackie Zabrowski
Yeah.
[45:27]
Natalie Jean
And living life as a slave.
[45:29]
Jackie Zabrowski
So this. This basic, basic sunball hat was the first thing he got because it represented his new life as freedom.
[45:37]
Natalie Jean
Yeah.
[45:39]
Jackie Zabrowski
Yeah. It seemed like a new beginning, a step toward a more normal existence. Well, as normal existence as someone like me can have.
[45:50]
Natalie Jean
She made an effort not to look at his wrist.
[45:53]
Jackie Zabrowski
So you have your hat, and I have Jelly Jubilee. So this is this sort of acknowledgment of this. Oh, we've revealed some really intimate parts of our pain to one another. That's hot.
[46:05]
Natalie Jean
Yeah, that's all they say. But also, they're, like, in the middle of things. But also it's hot.
[46:11]
Jackie Zabrowski
They're being very intimate in a different way than sexually, where they're becoming vulnerable. Imagine that.
[46:17]
Natalie Jean
Does not compute. Cannot compute. At least I imagine that's what's going on in Hunt's brain.
[46:25]
Jackie Zabrowski
He's like, no God, crashing down, you know? So this is this intimate, you know, revealing thing. And it just leads them, of course, to immediately, like, flirting. Han starts to tease her for not getting a Jelly Jubilee tattoo, and she gets butterflies. As he scans her body, she teases back that maybe she does and he just hasn't seen it. Which, of course, is a come on. Because he's seen her nearly undress a hundred times. In this line of thinking. Will obviously him obviously lead him to start thinking about her naked body. Duh. And he takes the bait.
[47:04]
Natalie Jean
She could have sworn his voice dropped an octave or two as he asked.
[47:08]
Jackie Zabrowski
Do you.
[47:11]
Natalie Jean
I there. It's something I love, love, love, love about. Bryce Quinlan is something that I do not have and never will have. And that is a seductive in my body. And, like, I love their flirtation. SJM is so good at writing this playful flirtation.
[47:30]
Jackie Zabrowski
Oh, yeah.
[47:30]
Natalie Jean
Because it is aggressive, but it is still very sexy. And I don't know how to do those things.
[47:37]
Jackie Zabrowski
I would say you're a very good flirt, though.
[47:41]
Natalie Jean
Yeah, but I'm like, a zany, fun flirt. I'm like a touch Abouts flirt. You know what I mean? I'm not like a.
[47:50]
Jackie Zabrowski
I don't know if that's not. So you're using. You're using gremlins as your reference to flirt.
[47:57]
Natalie Jean
To little. The seduce a little bit. Well, that's also my Edward voice when I did Twilight. And you talk like this, so maybe that's where. Like this, I think that's supposed to be. Sounds sexy.
[48:10]
Jackie Zabrowski
I would love. I always was so desperate to be seductive, but I never could be because I'm so. So. I'm just like. Just like one of the guys.
[48:18]
Natalie Jean
Oh, my God. That's not what I'm saying. You're just like Bella.
[48:22]
Jackie Zabrowski
I'm just like Bella. No, it's more that I desperately want to be mysterious and seductive, but I am unable to do that, so I would have be around. I'm not saying, like, I'm such a nerd, but, like, I was around beautiful model women who could pull that off at all times, and I'm just not capable of doing it. I wish that I could.
[48:40]
Natalie Jean
Yeah, but you're the one that they all want because you're. You're like the kind of one that's like, comes up and like, leans and then like, falls over and everyone's like, oh, my God. Oh, she can't see without her glasses.
[48:50]
Jackie Zabrowski
Oh, God. Oh. Oh, my hair falls.
[48:53]
Natalie Jean
Look at that blind beauty. Imagine it would be.
[49:00]
Jackie Zabrowski
I'm much. I'm essentially much more annoying than a lot of those mysterious women where I just talk, talk, talk, talk, talk all day. I'm also one of those. This, like, a lot of the chicks I was around. I think I've said this before on the show, but they always look like they're posed perfectly in photos. If they're. Even if they're not. If. Even if they're candid photos, right?
[49:19]
Natalie Jean
Yes.
[49:19]
Jackie Zabrowski
If you catch me in a can of photo, I'm like, oh, yeah.
[49:23]
Natalie Jean
Even as you said that. I was like, oh. I'm just hunched right now. I'm just like. I'm a puddle girl. I sit like I'm a puddle.
[49:30]
Jackie Zabrowski
No, you do not, Funnel girl. But anyway, so she is. You know, she's baiting him and he's taking it. She fantasizes about crawling onto his lap, but tells herself that it's not possible because, you know, they have work to do in plain. He's still in with his own girlfriend.
[50:06]
Natalie Jean
Yeah, you gotta get over that hump. Before he can get to that hump.
[50:09]
Jackie Zabrowski
She tries to brush it off and tells him that there are Some males he can ask. Oh, to me would say that she's trying to make him jealous. Which seems to work.
[50:22]
Natalie Jean
Hunt let out a long, tight breath. The cherry sat and groaned as he shifted in it, his wings rustling. She still didn't dare look. She honestly didn't know what she'd do if she looked.
[50:36]
Jackie Zabrowski
Oh.
[50:40]
Natalie Jean
Imagine saying something sexy and you just hear from behind you that man, that I think is such a, like, sexy moment. Oh my. Thank you for including this moment.
[50:54]
Jackie Zabrowski
It's good. She does tension really well.
[50:56]
Natalie Jean
Yeah, dude.
[50:57]
Jackie Zabrowski
So he seems to struggle to bring his attention back to the case. And he reminds her that they need to question Sabine, which is a total boner killer.
[51:05]
Natalie Jean
That is.
[51:06]
Jackie Zabrowski
Or it should be. But Bryce is still extremely distracted, even with the mention of that witch. I mean, wolf. She tells him that they are going to need to question her outside of the ox. And it makes it look like they are doing anything but interrogating her. So she is trying to focus on the. The logic of what they need to. To accomplish.
[51:28]
Natalie Jean
Not like horny, horny, horny, horny, horny. That's happening inside of her brain.
[51:32]
Jackie Zabrowski
Yeah. And she says, listen, if we're going to try to get information out of her, we have to make it look like we're not. We have to make it look like we're doing something else. We can't just go in and be like, what did you do, Sabine?
[51:46]
Natalie Jean
No, I don't think she'll like that very much.
[51:48]
Jackie Zabrowski
And Hunt's like. Yeah. She finally looks up at him. Him.
[51:53]
Natalie Jean
His face was flushed and his eyes solas. His black eyes glittered wholly fixed on her face, like he was thinking of touching her.
[52:05]
Jackie Zabrowski
Now is not the time, y'all.
[52:07]
Natalie Jean
No, I gotta go to some. The sub is calling ya.
[52:13]
Jackie Zabrowski
Because with heart twisting, Bryce tells him that they're going to need to go to Moonwood.
[52:18]
Natalie Jean
Yeah, dude. Going to the wolf's den.
[52:21]
Jackie Zabrowski
Chapter 43 is a trauma salad.
[52:24]
Natalie Jean
Oh, yo, yoi.
[52:26]
Jackie Zabrowski
Just FYI, everybody, there is mention of suicidal ideation in this chapter. So just be aware and skip over it if you want to not hear that.
[52:37]
Natalie Jean
Thank you, Natalie.
[52:38]
Jackie Zabrowski
Yes. So lots of trauma happens in this chapter. Imagine having to go into the lair of your worst enemy as well as your former friend. Lair who hates you now.
[52:50]
Natalie Jean
Yes. So everyone hates you.
[52:53]
Jackie Zabrowski
Yeah. So she has to go into a place where she knows Ethan is. She knows Sabina's and all these other people. Wolves that she knows absolutely despise her because she has to go into what is called the Wolf's Den, which is essentially a 10 block compound where all of the wolves convene and a lot of them live behind big walls. Bryce and Hunt stand outside the iron gates that lead into the massive compound. As they watch the little wolf pups playing in the front courtyard. The security guards at the front bear the tattoos of the black rose pack. That's not Danica's pack. That kind of got when you know the.
[53:34]
Natalie Jean
The old.
[53:34]
Jackie Zabrowski
There was no survivors left.
[53:36]
Natalie Jean
Put the rose on.
[53:38]
Jackie Zabrowski
Well, yeah, we'll edit it in.
[53:40]
Natalie Jean
Everyone, everyone pretend like I've got a rose tattoo too.
[53:45]
Jackie Zabrowski
So Danika's pack obviously was killed. So this is an entirely different pack of wolves. And so even though it wasn't Danika's wolves, they know who Bryce is. They all know who Bryce is. Before they can address the four guards standing in front of the gates, a fifth wolf pulls up. They're all in their humanoid form, but it seems like the little kids who are playing are in their wolf form, which is really cute. Bryce grimaces, knowing this B word. And her name is Amelie Ravencroft.
[54:19]
Natalie Jean
Yeah, I'm in A.
[54:20]
Jackie Zabrowski
But like super hot.
[54:22]
Natalie Jean
Yeah, I'm a hot hot alert.
[54:25]
Jackie Zabrowski
And she is not a friendly face. None of the wolves are really. But she's clearly got a specific B in her bonnet over Bryce. She calls her a slut.
[54:36]
Natalie Jean
Yikes.
[54:37]
Jackie Zabrowski
So as in to say Amelie calls.
[54:39]
Natalie Jean
Bryce a Sorry, Bryce, but you're a slut.
[54:42]
Jackie Zabrowski
She's not sorry. She's not a millennial. And she is.
[54:45]
Natalie Jean
Whoa, you're right. There's no exclamation points in any of her emails either. I doubt it. She's very serious.
[54:51]
Jackie Zabrowski
She is. And Hunt immediately starts growling ahead of her. She throws some barbs at him too, and they get into a jaw clenching match. Bryce cuts it off by requesting, demanding they scamper off and get the prime for her and Hunter Hunt. Amelie challenges Hunt to a fight and he says he won't fight in front of the pups, which seems to about drop Bryce's panties.
[55:17]
Natalie Jean
Oh, my God.
[55:19]
Jackie Zabrowski
She was like. She looks at him in surprise. Him being like, I'm not going to cause violence in front of these babies.
[55:24]
Natalie Jean
Well, also because he'll just like rip this young wolf's head off. Like if he. It's like if he knows that he would just kill her and he doesn't want to kill her in front of the pups.
[55:33]
Jackie Zabrowski
Yeah.
[55:34]
Natalie Jean
Yep. So she's also really hot, apparently.
[55:36]
Jackie Zabrowski
Bryce thinks so as well.
[55:38]
Natalie Jean
Yeah, dude.
[55:39]
Jackie Zabrowski
Hunt threatens returning with a warrant if they won't help retrieve the prime. And Bryce thinks about how Ithan is now the second in the black Rose pack. The idea of seeing him is stomach churning. Amelie decides it's not worth the hassle and radios in for the prime.
[55:58]
Natalie Jean
Yeah, maybe my braids are too tight. All right. Maybe I just got them loosened up a little bit.
[56:04]
Jackie Zabrowski
Oh, she. There's some. There's got to be some kind of fan favorite, all that.
[56:08]
Natalie Jean
Yeah. I mean, there's got to be fanfic. Her and Connor, but. Right?
[56:11]
Jackie Zabrowski
Oh, yeah.
[56:12]
Natalie Jean
Maybe dream of it.
[56:13]
Jackie Zabrowski
Or maybe Ethan dream of it.
[56:16]
Natalie Jean
Yeah. Yeah. I'd watch any of it. Sure.
[56:19]
Jackie Zabrowski
Bryce wistfully thinks about the freedom she had at one time to waltz right into the wolf den through the gates and play with the pups while Danika was babysitting them. But this is a hostile space now. Now it's so weird to go to places where it was like, once your stomping ground and it's not anymore, and you go and it's just, like, weird.
[56:38]
Natalie Jean
Yes. Especially when it hasn't changed at all. And you're just like, I'm the only thing that I'm changed.
[56:44]
Jackie Zabrowski
I'm the factor.
[56:45]
Natalie Jean
Yeah, dude.
[56:46]
Jackie Zabrowski
Yeah. Amelie continues to antagonize her while they wait. And then Amelie begins to say, starts saying awful about how thankful she is. Bryce was texting with Danika while she was fucking a stranger in the bathroom because Amelie got promoted when she died.
[57:03]
Natalie Jean
Amelie, that's a really bitchy thing to say.
[57:06]
Jackie Zabrowski
It's also like six point kinds of fucked up because they're supposed to be, like, mourning like, they're wolf packs. They're supposed to be loyal to other wolves. And she's also just like, mo. She hates Bryce so much that she's laughing about Danika's murder.
[57:21]
Natalie Jean
Well, also, I'm assuming, like, she wanted that spot. So they are pretty aggressive. And maybe, like, it wasn't so much or it's like, I guess I would attempt taken care of you if we were in a fight together. But outside of that, happy to see you go, which is real. But then you think about, like, where Sabine came from. You know, I. I think that, like, it's probably, I'm say it very toxic in the wolf's den.
[57:45]
Jackie Zabrowski
And it all depends on who the leader is at the time, which we'll find out shortly. But Bryce, of course, is enraged by this. And she essentially tells Amelie that she's like, you know, a tenth of the wolf that Danika was. Was. But before they can really get into it, suddenly Ethan is there.
[58:04]
Natalie Jean
Oh, no. Oh, God.
[58:06]
Jackie Zabrowski
She hasn't seen him in two years. She looks him over and sees that he really has come into manhood. Or wolfhood. Yeah, wolfhood. He's in human. But he's human form.
[58:18]
Natalie Jean
Yeah, he's in male. Yeah, I was gonna say he's in male form. Male form.
[58:21]
Jackie Zabrowski
He was barely out of adolescence when they were last friends. Now he's made the drop and taken Connor's place. No more sunball dreams for him. He had the potential for going pro, if you'll recall from the beginning of the book. But he completely stopped playing after the murders. She found this information out from a televised sunball game. Nobody told her because none of them.
[58:46]
Natalie Jean
Speak to her anymore.
[58:49]
Jackie Zabrowski
As she realizes just how much he now looks like Connor, she starts to have a panic attack. Ithan is looking at her with disdain.
[58:57]
Natalie Jean
Oh God.
[58:59]
Jackie Zabrowski
She tries to stop the flow of bad memories as Ithan tells them that the prime is napping. So they will be meeting with Sabine. But this is what they planned for.
[59:10]
Natalie Jean
Yes.
[59:10]
Jackie Zabrowski
Unbeknownst to the wolves, they had planned to go to the time she knew that the prime would be napping because they need to talk to freaking sabitch. Bryce is dismayed to learn that Ithan will be staying with them the entire time they're there. Mirror in the whole. Even in the room when they speak with Sabine. As he leads them up to her office, up these staircases in the compound, she thinks about how much she deserves this misery. Which is like Bryce, come on, be better to yourself. You gotta. You gotta stop this self. Self deprecation during this walk. The last voicemails, AKA audio males in this world.
[59:49]
Natalie Jean
That's how you know it's different. That's how you know it's like book. It's book phone rather than your own phone.
[59:55]
Jackie Zabrowski
Yes. She also calls it the interwebs, which is serious. But so she this. The voicemails that Ethan last sent her start racing through her thoughts. She's listened to them many times to torture herself. They're from the night of it all. And she's going through them in her mind as she stands as he's walking in front of her for the first time in two years. And his first emails in her phone were of deep concern for her. Sorrow, fear, trying to understand what was happening. Because he's getting these messages that like there's been an attack and he can't get a hold of anyone. He's pleading with her to call him. She never does. And just a couple days after, what Afterwards there was no more concern in his voice when he was leaving messages.
[60:42]
Natalie Jean
The Legion inspector showed me all the messages.
[60:45]
Jackie Zabrowski
He's not a surfer.
[60:47]
Natalie Jean
Connor practically told you that he loved you and you finally agreed to go out with him and then you fucked some stranger in the Raven bathroom while he was dying. Are you kidding me with this shit? Don't come to the sailing tomorrow. You're not welcome there.
[61:03]
Jackie Zabrowski
This is a serious moment.
[61:05]
Natalie Jean
I am being serious. And I feel like they're all like, jock bros.
[61:12]
Jackie Zabrowski
They are for sure. I'm. I have the least amount of attraction to the. The Holstrom boys just because it's not my style.
[61:20]
Natalie Jean
See, my problem is I think I'll forever have a crush on Connor, even though, like, we don't really get to know him. Because he's like the older brother that I probably would have always had a crush on if I were Ethan's age. You know what I mean? So in my brain I saw him as like, his name Trent in Daria.
[61:41]
Jackie Zabrowski
Oh, yeah, Trent.
[61:42]
Natalie Jean
I like, I saw him as like a. A wolf version of Trent, which is why I'm sexually attracted. I needed to explain this to you, Natalie. I needed you to know why I was attracted to Connor even though he dies at the beginning of the book.
[61:54]
Jackie Zabrowski
It's so funny because Trent also I had a massive crush on when I was like 12, 13 years old.
[62:00]
Natalie Jean
Oh, yeah.
[62:01]
Jackie Zabrowski
And it is so indicative of why those kind of dudes go after 12, 13 year olds because they're the only ones who find that attractive. Because he's just living at his parents house, not working, talking about how cool his band Mystic Spiral is.
[62:16]
Natalie Jean
And man, when you're like 16 though, you're just like, huh, wow. Wow.
[62:23]
Jackie Zabrowski
I can't believe how cool you are.
[62:24]
Natalie Jean
Oh my God. And maybe not just at 16. Maybe that did go all the way to the age of 30 for me.
[62:30]
Jackie Zabrowski
Oh, yeah, no, it was past a good. A healthy point.
[62:34]
Natalie Jean
But yeah, yeah, yeah, that's a problem. So that's why. Yeah. But Ethan I always saw as the like, younger brother who's like, trying to keep up with everybody. Oh, yeah. He obviously has grown up in these last two years, but she writes him in such a way that is so like SJM gives him such younger brother vibes.
[62:55]
Jackie Zabrowski
Oh, absolutely.
[62:55]
Natalie Jean
That I'm not into. I never had a thing for Ethan.
[62:59]
Jackie Zabrowski
He also makes me think of another character, but we haven't gotten the reveal yet of certain parts of him, so I can't bring it up because it'll spoil it.
[63:05]
Natalie Jean
We'll get there.
[63:06]
Jackie Zabrowski
But he gives me another. He Reminds me of another character.
[63:09]
Natalie Jean
Oh, I want to know.
[63:12]
Jackie Zabrowski
So you have to know.
[63:14]
Natalie Jean
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
[63:16]
Jackie Zabrowski
So obviously they do not like that she was having sex with someone while this all happened. It seems besides the point. It does, but I guess you gotta have a fall guy.
[63:27]
Natalie Jean
And also, though. But honestly. And you know he's going through a lot when he leaves that. That audio. Excuse me. And. But, like, obviously that doesn't matter. What was she gonna do?
[63:39]
Jackie Zabrowski
Well, yeah.
[63:39]
Natalie Jean
What would she have done? Slut.
[63:41]
Jackie Zabrowski
Shaming her isn't gonna obviously change it again. Also. So she wasn't dating Connor yet.
[63:46]
Natalie Jean
Yeah. He just had a thing for her. And they were probably both still sleeping with other people.
[63:51]
Jackie Zabrowski
Yes. She talks about Connor looking up with other people in the book. And she had agreed to a date, but she's still allowed to have sex with somebody.
[63:59]
Natalie Jean
Yeah.
[63:59]
Jackie Zabrowski
And it's not why they died.
[64:01]
Natalie Jean
Yeah. But again, that's. None of those things are what is going through Ethan's brain when he left that audio manual. I understand.
[64:08]
Jackie Zabrowski
But also, I. I cannot stand slut shaming. And I hate how much they bring up that she was fucking somebody as if it's any of their business, but.
[64:18]
Natalie Jean
I think it actually makes a lot of sense. And I appreciate that SJM does do that, because I think that that is what would have. Like, no matter what, her being a slut would have been shamed by all of these upper people in all of these. If they knew anything about her. Because it's ridiculous that it's 2024 and people still truly feel that way that, like, what you do in your bedroom has anything to do with anybody else.
[64:47]
Jackie Zabrowski
Well, apparently it's still happening in 15,075 or whatever.
[64:51]
Natalie Jean
Can nothing change in the next years? Thank you. Yeah. Mathematician Jackie Zabrowski.
[65:03]
Jackie Zabrowski
Also, you can just. Whatever year you're listening to this, you can just make whatever number it is.
[65:07]
Natalie Jean
Yeah. That you're getting me.
[65:09]
Jackie Zabrowski
So. So, yeah, I just. Yeah. I'm glad she did it. But also, it makes me. It makes it harder for me to have sympathy for Ethan in those moments. I understand he was going through a lot.
[65:22]
Natalie Jean
Yes.
[65:22]
Jackie Zabrowski
But. And she also reflects on how wolves consider loyalty one of the most important traits. And they knew Connor and her were fated in some way. So I think also that was why it was, like, especially stinging to him.
[65:36]
Natalie Jean
Well, and also, how much must he hate himself? His whole pack was ripped apart. His brother ripped apart. That, like, he'd rather. I'm sure in his youth, he would rather blame Bryce. And currently in. In the book. But, like, he would rather blame Bryce than blame himself. And I think that's where that's his struggle.
[65:57]
Jackie Zabrowski
Yeah. He needs to get over that shit. But not today.
[66:02]
Natalie Jean
No. Not a lot of therapy in the future either.
[66:06]
Jackie Zabrowski
No.
[66:07]
Natalie Jean
Oh, God. Good.
[66:08]
Jackie Zabrowski
Oh, good. Getting otter hair in my eye.
[66:11]
Natalie Jean
You otter? No.
[66:21]
Jackie Zabrowski
I'm upset.
[66:22]
Natalie Jean
I like it.
[66:24]
Jackie Zabrowski
Thinking about Connor is threatening her cognitive faculties, so she focuses on her breathing, trying to push it away. Sabine is unshockingly not happy to see them when Ithan finally, finally takes them up to the end of the staircase to the door, and she sees them standing there. Hunt lies to Sabine and tells her they want to speak to the prime, but she tells them to stay out of wolf things when they reveal that they're here to talk about Danica's murder.
[66:55]
Natalie Jean
It is wolf things.
[66:57]
Jackie Zabrowski
It is wolf things. Hunt slips in that they're tracking the Crystallos demon, which is of course why they're here, because they're slipping in these little things that haven't been revealed to the public. Right? So they want to gauge her reaction when they say the crystal Os, to see if she's like, what? Not only does she not react to this piece of information, she tells them that Danika was nowhere near the horn the night it was stolen. And they know this is a lie. And they know she knows it's a lie. This all but confirms to Bryce in her mind that Sabine killed Danika. Sabine launches into insults to Bryce.
[67:39]
Natalie Jean
You know what, Sabine? You are so much older than Bryce. You really got to always, like, degrade into this.
[67:45]
Jackie Zabrowski
Well, it makes you seem insecure, personally. That's what I think.
[67:49]
Natalie Jean
Yeah. You're supposed to be this big bad wolf bitch, and then you just go all. You stoop down to make fun of this half human child, essentially, compared to.
[68:01]
Jackie Zabrowski
You that lost all of her friends. Yeah, yeah. But she does some more of the talk. Calls her A and stuff.
[68:08]
Natalie Jean
It's like at this point, water off.
[68:11]
Jackie Zabrowski
My back, come up with a new insult.
[68:13]
Natalie Jean
Yeah, get better.
[68:15]
Jackie Zabrowski
Bryce feels like she's gotten enough from this conversation. She heard Sabine respond in a lie. And she tells Hunt this was a mistake as a way to get out of the room. And she turns around to start, you know, know, racing back down the stairs. She is genuinely upset. Hun follows her and tries to get her to slow down. As she's racing down these stairs to get herself out of this compound. He seems urgent enough calling her name that she stops and turns to look at him, only to see that Ithan is still with them. Ithan asks her why they're here. Why? They're really here. Like, you can see something is up. Hunt tries to shut him down, saying, none of your business. But Bryce, shaking and quiet, just tells him that it's happening again and to watch out for his pack. Ethan only observes them from there, but then he tells them, okay, I'll report if I hear anything. Do you need our numbers?
[69:14]
Natalie Jean
Hunt asked coolly. Ethan's lip curled.
[69:18]
Jackie Zabrowski
World, I have hers.
[69:21]
Natalie Jean
She struggled to meet his stare, especially as he asked, are you gonna bother.
[69:26]
Jackie Zabrowski
To reply this time? Now you've made a can.
[69:29]
Natalie Jean
I love it. Yes. I think this is gonna be really. I'm gonna love the voice more and more as we get into more of his storyline.
[69:39]
Jackie Zabrowski
Oh, yeah, we're gonna have a lot of it.
[69:42]
Natalie Jean
It's.
[69:43]
Jackie Zabrowski
But his reply is almost as if he's hurt. Hurt, not just angry.
[69:47]
Natalie Jean
Yeah.
[69:48]
Jackie Zabrowski
Like maybe he felt abandoned by Bryce as much as he was angry with her.
[69:51]
Natalie Jean
Yeah.
[69:52]
Jackie Zabrowski
Because, you know, she didn't even text him to tell him she was okay. Initially, in those first couple days, he was very concerned for her, and she just didn't tell him she was even alive. Which, you know, that might have been one of the reasons he lashed out at her.
[70:07]
Natalie Jean
Right. And it all goes back to how many times we can say communication, guys. Like, if he had could just, like, sent a text saying something about it. If she could have sent a text saying something like that. But, you know, this is what happens. We get. We push each other away sometimes after a traumatic event, and it is. It's difficult to get those connections back.
[70:29]
Jackie Zabrowski
It's true.
[70:30]
Natalie Jean
But they're both hurt.
[70:31]
Jackie Zabrowski
They're both hurt. I think Bryce, you know, internalizing all of this blame and herself, maybe felt too ashamed to reach out to him. And it's the same as right now. As he's confronting her. She can't respond to him.
[70:45]
Natalie Jean
Yeah.
[70:45]
Jackie Zabrowski
She turns to flee and instead runs face first into the prime. Sabine's father and Danika's grandfather. We don't know much about him, but she notes that when he looks at Bryce, he gives her a, quote, sad, kind smile. Smile. Quite a different stripe, apparently, from all of these other bags. So they're not. There's literally been not one ounce of kindness from any wolf towards Bryce until this moment.
[71:17]
Natalie Jean
One smile.
[71:18]
Jackie Zabrowski
He is not sneering at her. He's not yelling at her. He smiles at her. And it. She looks at it as kindness. So it's interesting because he's supposed to be the prime, but it doesn't seem as though. So his. The Way he is, the way he may have. May have taught the wolves, is being implemented in the den. So that's. That's curious to me. But maybe that's where Danica got her friendliness and compassion, because it certainly wasn't Subit.
[71:45]
Natalie Jean
No, you're damn right.
[71:48]
Jackie Zabrowski
But seeing the prime is too much to bear for her, and she continues forward through the front gate without speaking to him. She stopped again, however, by Ethan right before she left.
[71:58]
Natalie Jean
Leaves Hunt a step behind. Ethan said you never deserved him. He might as well have drawn the knife she knew was hidden in his boot and plunged it into her chest. I know, she rasped. It's like, come on, bro. I know you're hurt, and I know that she's hurt, but it's like, can we not do this? We got to do this in front of other people, too.
[72:24]
Jackie Zabrowski
Also, she chased after the creature in bare feet.
[72:27]
Natalie Jean
Yes. She did everything she could. She is but a half human.
[72:32]
Jackie Zabrowski
So mean. She gets a bit of anger in her gut after this and tells him. Connor would be ashamed of him. Letting Amelie trample all over Danika's legacy. Mm. Ithan growls at her to never say his name again. Never say his name again.
[72:49]
Natalie Jean
Oh, my God.
[72:51]
Jackie Zabrowski
Hunter.
[72:51]
Natalie Jean
This.
[72:52]
Jackie Zabrowski
Hunt intervenes, and the two of them head out the gates as the wolves throw a last couple insults at Bryce. She can't bear to look at whether Ithan was joining in with all of the wolves. Laughter. So they're still saying mean things to her, and she just can't bear to look if Ethan's joining in and laughing and pointing. God, we are getting. We gotta get through these chapters faster. I can't believe. Really? No, it's fine. I enjoy talking to too. Maybe we should, like, ask them if we should try to speed them up or not. I don't know if people are annoyed at us talking too much.
[73:28]
Natalie Jean
I feel like that's literally what they come here for.
[73:31]
Jackie Zabrowski
Yeah, but. So I don't. I mean, we can go through chapter 44.
[73:36]
Natalie Jean
How long is it?
[73:39]
Jackie Zabrowski
It's a couple pages. Let's see.
[73:46]
Natalie Jean
See, I feel like I'm not talking any more than we used to.
[73:50]
Jackie Zabrowski
There's a lot of storyline, I guess. Let's see.
[73:54]
Natalie Jean
We're here.
[74:01]
Jackie Zabrowski
Oh, we didn't even get to the suicide stuff. Unless we go through this. This chapter.
[74:08]
Natalie Jean
Then. You want to just make this one a long one?
[74:12]
Jackie Zabrowski
Yeah. What do you think?
[74:15]
Natalie Jean
We're here.
[74:16]
Jackie Zabrowski
So I'm wrong. Ryan, this is the chapter where she says the suicide things.
[74:22]
Natalie Jean
Or do you want to take that out and then Start it with the suicide trigger next time. Does it make more sense chapter to chapter wise?
[74:39]
Jackie Zabrowski
Hmm.
[74:44]
Natalie Jean
I don't know.
[74:44]
Jackie Zabrowski
I'm torn. What do you think?
[74:51]
Natalie Jean
I feel like it's not an important enough part to like to push through. I feel like it's the kind of thing that it's better to stop it and then next time I will truly actually not talk too much.
[75:04]
Jackie Zabrowski
No, I'm talking too. Just.
[75:07]
Natalie Jean
And then. Because just. Cuz it's like if we were in the middle of like a big high action part, it would be one thing, but like I feel like the next one is more just. I mean, it's not that it's not important, it's just.
[75:20]
Jackie Zabrowski
Yeah. So I guess just take the trigger.
[75:22]
Natalie Jean
Warning out of it, if that's okay. And we'll use that for the next one. And then we've got the next one early next week.
[75:30]
Jackie Zabrowski
Cuz I leaving for New York. Okay.
[75:34]
Natalie Jean
Okay. Did we.
[75:39]
Jackie Zabrowski
I'm just. Wait. Did we plan to throw out glass?
[75:44]
Natalie Jean
We never did.
[75:44]
Jackie Zabrowski
Okay. I love. For a second I double booked them at this.
[75:48]
Natalie Jean
No, I never did that.
[75:49]
Jackie Zabrowski
Just like crossed my mind.
[75:49]
Natalie Jean
I figured we were gonna get panicked. We'll get back. I also haven't had the time to do like get. I haven't. So we need to just.
[75:56]
Jackie Zabrowski
Maybe we should try this. Maybe we should try to do one like between Christmas and New Year's or something.
[76:03]
Natalie Jean
I just feel like no one will tune in.
[76:05]
Jackie Zabrowski
You don't think people like.
[76:07]
Natalie Jean
Well, let's finish. Let's finish this episode and we'll talk about it.
[76:09]
Jackie Zabrowski
Oh, right. We have to end with something, right?
[76:13]
Natalie Jean
Man, I am just glad that we are getting back. I. I do like the wolves. I like the. I like. I like the wolf pack. I like that we're going to start getting more of. Of those characters added in. Because it's not just a bitch.
[76:28]
Jackie Zabrowski
No.
[76:28]
Natalie Jean
Even though she wishes it was just a bitch. But it ain't. Amelie's here too. And I'm looking at you.
[76:36]
Jackie Zabrowski
It seems as though, even though the prime is still the prime and alive, that she's really calling all the shots. And it seems like she's not doing a good job because the morale in the wolf's den is not positive.
[76:47]
Natalie Jean
No positive. Pause it, Natalie. Positive.
[76:54]
Jackie Zabrowski
I'm frowning.
[76:55]
Natalie Jean
Don't frown at me. But I am excited to learn more about what is happening.
[77:03]
Jackie Zabrowski
Yeah. So you. Obviously we've gotten a few introductions in this couple chapters. We have a Therian, which is not spoiling, but he returns quite a bit in the story. And we're getting all of the wolves who they're coming back in. We're going to be getting some Ethan. We're getting a lot of new people in here.
[77:19]
Natalie Jean
Pepper it, bitch. Pepper it.
[77:22]
Jackie Zabrowski
So we should stop here.
[77:25]
Natalie Jean
Okay.
[77:26]
Jackie Zabrowski
Try to just absorb all that you've just learned.
[77:30]
Natalie Jean
Yes. And. And steel yourself for next week because we've got a lot more to learn. Where that came from.
[77:36]
Jackie Zabrowski
Some of it will be upsetting and some of it will be erotic, and some of it, it will be both.
[77:41]
Natalie Jean
Yeah. Oh. Oh. Sounds like we're going to be dicing up feet soon.
[77:46]
Jackie Zabrowski
Feet stuff. Please read up until chapter 49 for next week.
[78:27]
Natalie Jean
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