LPN Deep Dives: Crescent City / Episode 3: Everybody Dead Now

Summary

LPN Deep Dives: Crescent City – Episode 3: Everybody Dead Now

Release Date: November 5, 2024
Hosts: Natalie Jean (Some Place Under Neith) and Jackie Zebrowski (Page 7)
Podcast Network: The Last Podcast Network

---

Introduction and Light Banter (00:19 - 07:27)

The episode kicks off with Natalie Jean and Jackie Zabrowski engaging in playful banter about their costumes and physical appearances. Natalie is dressed as Sandriel, an angel character from "Crescent City," while Jackie humorously comments on her own muscular appearance. The hosts delve into the symbolism of physical attributes, such as abs being both a pride and a potential 'cage' for characters who work hard to attain them.

Notable Quote:

• Natalie Jean [02:16]: “I am dressed as Sandriel, even though I shouldn't be sexy. This is just God-given.”

---

Transition to Book Discussion (07:27 - 16:12)

After the initial humor, the hosts smoothly transition to discussing the book, focusing on the second part where Bryce Quinlan faces a drastically changed world 22 months after a brutal event where many of her friends were killed. Natalie and Jackie explore Bryce's coping mechanisms, including partying and substance use, and the subsequent judgment she faces from others, particularly from characters like Ethan and Sabine.

Notable Quotes:

• Jackie Zabrowski [08:35]: “It's what looks like at the top. It seems as though that's what Bryce has decided.”
• Natalie Jean [10:07]: “I just feel like if I were in Bryce's shoes, I probably also need a little time as well.”

---

Character Relationships and Development (16:12 - 30:06)

The discussion shifts to Bryce’s interactions with other characters, such as Jesper and the vampire Maximus Tertian. They analyze Bryce's internal struggles, her sense of isolation, and her attempts to maintain her reputation while dealing with immense trauma. The hosts highlight Bryce’s evolution from a carefree party girl to someone grappling with loss and responsibility.

Notable Quotes:

• Natalie Jean [17:07]: “Maximus is clocked for being a creep. And I mean, he is a vampire.”
• Jackie Zabrowski [22:12]: “Some people deal with grief in other ways.”

---

Exploring First Light and the Drop Ritual (30:06 - 45:48)

Natalie and Jackie delve into the lore of "Crescent City," specifically the concept of "First Light" and the "Drop" ritual. They explain how the Drop is a transformative and perilous process that grants characters their powers and immortality. The hosts draw parallels between this ritual and real-life experiences, discussing themes of sacrifice, power, and governmental control over individuals.

Notable Quotes:

• Jackie Zabrowski [23:30]: “So what we're kind of learning in this section is First Light is something that they generate from this ritual of the drop.”
• Natalie Jean [24:13]: “Raw, unfiltered magic. It could heal and destroy and do everything in between.”

---

Hunt’s Backstory and Current Struggles (45:48 - 63:00)

The episode transitions to Hunt, another central character, exploring his grim past and current predicament under the control of Micah. Natalie and Jackie discuss Hunt’s forced servitude, his internal conflict, and his traumatic experiences at the hands of Sandriel and later Micah. They highlight Hunt’s resilience and the psychological toll of his endless cycle of violence and punishment.

Notable Quotes:

• Jackie Zabrowski [55:42]: “So Hunt ended up here in Lunathean because he was actually helping to head the rebellion against the angels back hundreds of years ago.”
• Natalie Jean [58:49]: “Used to be my playground.”

---

Themes of Trauma, Isolation, and Redemption (63:00 - 68:01)

In the final segment, the hosts reflect on overarching themes within "Crescent City," such as trauma, isolation, and the pursuit of redemption. They discuss how both Bryce and Hunt navigate their respective struggles, the impact of past traumas on present interactions, and the faint glimmer of hope that drives their continued perseverance. The episode concludes with a poignant look at Hunt’s self-hatred and his painful rituals of penance.

Notable Quotes:

• Jackie Zabrowski [65:00]: “His actions pull him apart inside. But there's at least something.”
• Natalie Jean [67:00]: “It's not your fault, babe. You were just trying to do what was good for you and the angels.”

---

Conclusion

Throughout Episode 3, Natalie and Jackie provide an insightful and engaging deep dive into "Crescent City," unpacking complex characters, intricate world-building, and the heavy themes that drive the narrative forward. Their blend of analysis and humor makes the discussion accessible and entertaining, offering both fans and newcomers a comprehensive understanding of the novel series' latest developments.

Final Thoughts:

• Natalie Jean [65:10]: “And it's the closest thing he has to hope.”
• Jackie Zabrowski [66:27]: “So it's like, no, he's obviously just trying to look out for you.”

---

Subscribe to SiriusXM Podcasts+ on Apple Podcasts to listen to ad-free new episodes of LPN Deep Dives: Crescent City.

---

Note: The timestamps correspond to key moments in the transcript, capturing the essence of the hosts' discussions and interactions.

Transcript

[Natalie Jean]

Welcome to Crescent City with your hosts, Natalie Jean and Jackie Zabrowski.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

This is not worth wearing today because you can't even tell. Can you see my rippling muscles?

[Natalie Jean]

No. I think. I dare say you could probably take your rippling muscles off.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

Oh, no, no, no. That's a.

[Natalie Jean]

So this process for you. Yeah, this is for you and your character.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

You'd have to take another 10 minutes for me to get this off.

[Natalie Jean]

Yeah, yeah. You are sucked into a bit of like an abs. A cage.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

Yeah, like a prison of abs.

[Natalie Jean]

But also, isn't that every person that has abs like that? Because I feel like you have to work really hard to get it and it goes away really easily. So is it not always a cage.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

Of abs, but then also when you do have them, do people even really like you for you or is it just your abs?

[Natalie Jean]

I just feel like it really makes sense now that we're really talking about it, that if I had abs, I'd also probably show them off all the time because you put so much work into it. You'd have to be like. But did you see? Did you see what I have 100.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

Also, people are just genetically born more likely to have the. Those. Because those are top muscles. They're not even make you.

[Natalie Jean]

They don't.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

They don't mean you're strong necessarily. No, because the internal muscles are the ones. Is anybody. Is this.

[Natalie Jean]

You're a muscle mommy. Honestly, it is exciting because you are a. A muscle mommy. So you do know about these things.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

I will never have a six pack and that's fine.

[Natalie Jean]

No. Unless it's a Tab. I don't even know if they make that soda anymore.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

Oh, Tab the soda.

[Natalie Jean]

Tab the soda. Yeah.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

You're throwing it back there. Yeah.

[Natalie Jean]

Well, Natalie, be not so long to speak. I love to die.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

Oh, my God. Is it a bit of a Claire.

[Natalie Jean]

Me not so long. Does me go long to die? I.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

You look. You're very pretty in this costume.

[Natalie Jean]

I really appreciate that. And for those that are not watching the video, I am dressed as Sandriel, even though I shouldn't be sexy. This is just. This is God given. It's not my fault as Sandriel that I'm trying to be this sexy. But she is. She is an angel that we should, you know, be turned on by. But she in some respect, even though very, very evil. But I also do look like Claire Danes in Romeo plus Juliet.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

I mean, that's. I can't wait. Am I in 1996? Where am I?

[Natalie Jean]

Yeah, I mean, you are giving definitely like baby Leo in this, like, with dark hair. Yeah. You're giving baby Leo.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

I sure am.

[Natalie Jean]

Yeah. You, sir. Actually, you know what you're giving. You're giving Johnny Depp from Benny and June.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

I mean, I'll take that.

[Natalie Jean]

I definitely look like a very scary umbra mortis. Everybody say it with me. She looks like a very scary umbra mortis.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

I definitely still look like I just said his name. Ryan. What was. What did I just. I definitely still more resemble a Tommy Wiseau.

[Natalie Jean]

Yeah. But, like, sexy.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

But I keep trying to make it work.

[Natalie Jean]

It's like, you know, I saw Tommy Wiseau driving one, and he was driving in a, I think bigger than average, huge white Jeep, and he was dressed all in white, and he was smoking a cigar, and he had his hand out the window. I was like, man, who is this dude? Because I saw all the jewelry on the arm that came out that was smoking the cigar, and there's like, oh, my God, that's Tommy Wiseau. And I just feel like it all.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

Made so much sense, him as a person and that. Oh, like the.

[Natalie Jean]

Like. Yeah, like, where I found him in. I was like, ah, yeah, that tracks.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

Yeah. And now you're here with him. It's us, Claire Danes and Tommy Wiseau.

[Natalie Jean]

At least I wouldn't have to worry. I don't think Tommy Wiseau would hit on me. I don't think I'm his type.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

What's his.

[Natalie Jean]

You don't. What's his type? I think I'm like, I'm gonna assume maybe this is slander, and you can say it is. I think I'm 15 years too old, really. Right. I would just assume this is me making assumptions and making. I'm making an ass out of me. And Tommy Wiseau isn't one of his.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

Lore things that he's been with a much older woman his whole adult life who paid for his movies.

[Natalie Jean]

Whoa.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

Am I just fabricating that? I swear to God, I love all.

[Natalie Jean]

The lies we might be creating about Tommy Wiseau right now, but, you know, I'm here for it, because technically, you didn't come here for that information. So we're not really spreading lies about what you came here to listen about.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

Yeah. If you take that in and shared his truth, that's on you.

[Natalie Jean]

Yeah.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

So.

[Natalie Jean]

Wow. We really turned it back around, though. And maybe it's because we both have wings on. I don't know. Do the wings make you feel more like. I feel like I have more authority because I've got wings on.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

To be honest, your Wings I like.

[Natalie Jean]

Are you about to shit on my wings?

[Jackie Zabrowski]

No, I like them better than mine. Mine just sticks straight up in the air.

[Natalie Jean]

Yeah, but then it's cool because you look like there's a halo. Halo. But not like the halo that Hunt has.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

But I have that one too.

[Natalie Jean]

Oh, God. Be not so long to speak. I long to die because I can kiss my 15 year old boyfriend.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

She was also a child.

[Natalie Jean]

She was. So it was fine, technically, she was like really a child. But we're not going to get into Romeo plus Juliet right now.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

Why not? I'll always talk about it.

[Natalie Jean]

I know. And also, Natalie threw me an insane Romeo plus Juliet bachelorette party. And it was on my lava ball.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

What was it? We did a. What's the line? Because we reversed.

[Natalie Jean]

Borrowed. I know it now. We gotta look it up.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

I gotta look it up. I'm sorry. I'm sold. Not yet enjoyed. And then. But we flipped it for you and said, enjoyed.

[Natalie Jean]

Not yet, not yet sold. And that was my bachelorette party shirts. And man, everybody got the reference. Everybody. I was like, dude, Roman, do you. Do you see I'm a theater bitch. I don't know if you know this or not. Yeah, I'm a bit of a theater girl. And you know, you try to hide it by being like, I'm cool, I'm tough, I wear a leather jacket, but I'm just a theater girl just waiting to dress up like an angel so I could pretend like I'm looking at my 15 year old boyfriend through an aquarium tank.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

That's not who you are. You're a mean, evil lady, but you're also her twin.

[Natalie Jean]

Yeah, I'm Sandriel today. But also on channel.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

Technically, we are lovers.

[Natalie Jean]

Oh, my God. Actually, no. You hate me. I'm not Shahar. I'm Sandriel.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

But you look just like Shahar. He's so confused.

[Natalie Jean]

I know you think about that.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

His body's confused.

[Natalie Jean]

Yeah. Don't you? You're all horny and you're all chubby down.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

And I'm mad.

[Natalie Jean]

Yeah. And you're mad because I'm a bad angel. I'm a bad angel. Billie Eilish was singing about me.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

Oh, the song.

[Natalie Jean]

Yeah.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

Okay. I didn't. I didn't know if the dust sounds.

[Natalie Jean]

So you didn't get my. Yeah, well, technically there were more guinea pig sounds, but yeah.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

Oh, guinea pig sounds.

[Natalie Jean]

Of course.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

My bad.

[Natalie Jean]

I guess we'll talk about the book.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

Yeah, let's. Go ahead.

[Natalie Jean]

Fine. All right. If that's what we came here for. Well, you know, it's. We're still building a lot here.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

We're gonna be learning so many characters, so we are gonna take as much time as we need so that we're all on the same page. Okay. For the test later.

[Natalie Jean]

This is gonna help all.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

Now we've entered part two of the book, which is a very different world for Bryce.

[Natalie Jean]

Oh, it's different. Remember where we left her off?

[Jackie Zabrowski]

Everyone died. All of the main characters we were just getting introduced to and getting used to.

[Natalie Jean]

All rich and laughing alongside. Dead, dead, dead.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

Save a couple. There's still a few who are with us in this. On this more.

[Natalie Jean]

They're not talking to us currently.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

No. No, they're not. Bryce is living in extre. Different life when we return, and it is 22 months later from the initial event of her friends being ripped to pieces.

[Natalie Jean]

And what would you have done in those 22 months? Drinking, drugs and dancing. Drink and drugs and dance.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

It's what looks like at the top. It seems as though that's what Bryce has decided. But we may learn a bit different. Her best friend and her almost lover were two of the people who were taken apart limb by limb in her own bedroom. And so now she is trying to deal with that as best she can.

[Natalie Jean]

Let's hope she moves. I just feel like of all the trials, like, I gotta get out of this place.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

Thankfully, it seems like she may have.

[Natalie Jean]

Yeah.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

And at the very, very least, all we can say is at least the younger brother of Connor, her almost lover, Ethan, was not there because he was celebrating a win with his sunball team that evening. I think last time I actually said he was at the party, but he wasn't. He was never at the party at all. He was just. He was celebrating with his own people.

[Natalie Jean]

He was just having a good time.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

Boy time, but away from the apartment where all the bad stuff happened. So even though he wasn't there and she's glad he's alive, he has since cut Bryce off. It seems as though Sabine, Danika's mother, is not the only one who holds Bryce somewhat accountable for what occurred. Which is totally unfair.

[Natalie Jean]

Yes. But, like, all of that hurt. And especially, like, towards the wolf pack as well. Like, it hurts in such a different. Like, in so many ways. I can't even imagine. Like, we know that Sabine's anger is not the same as Ithan's anger.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

Though I will say we don't know right now.

[Natalie Jean]

We don't, but I will. But at this point in time, I wasn't like, fuck off, Ethan. I was very much like, oh, yeah, his brother and all of his friends just got ripped apart. So I probably also need a little time as well.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

And it is a little bit of. I would call it slut shaming, because the reason that they are kind of pointing the finger at her is because she wasn't responding to anybody's texts. She was partying, she was doing drugs and having sex in the bathroom.

[Natalie Jean]

Some people deal with grief in other ways.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

No, that's not even a grief that. For grief. And. Oh, you mean how they're responding. And I get it. I feel like I would feel shame if I was in Bryce's shoes in that time. But ultimately that's not.

[Natalie Jean]

Feel shame anyway, because you weren't there. And even though she couldn't have stopped it or saved them, ultimately, aren't you going to feel that shame?

[Jackie Zabrowski]

I think probably. But at the end of the day, that's. Her partying is not a crime. It's not like she was supposed to, like, pick Danica up and she didn't.

[Natalie Jean]

Right.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

It's just. I get why people are going to be looking at her going, oh, oh. She was, like, all coked up while this was happening. Cool. So, you know, that's what. Or what. It's not called coke. Lightsaber lights. Light secret up. Yeah, Light secret up.

[Natalie Jean]

Although if we could turn lightsabers into a drug, I feel like I'd probably enjoy Star Wars a little bit more.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

Yeah, I think. I don't know if that's. I don't know if the world's ready for that to become a drug. I think it would cause a lot of problems.

[Natalie Jean]

Man, think of all the nerds doing drugs there'd be. As if there's not a lot of nerds out there doing drugs.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

You just got a brand. You got to brand them for Star Wars.

[Natalie Jean]

You're right. So may the Fourth be with your drugs.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

Perfect. See?

[Natalie Jean]

You're welcome. Drug dealers. It writes itself.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

Okay, so we see that Ithan and Sabine are cutting her off and blaming her for this, but even Fury and Juniper won't return her calls most of the time, regardless of the fact that they were also out partying with her that night. Neither of them also were responding to their messages, which I'm sure they were receiving. Yeah, but they've. They've all kind of broken apart. But I get tragedy does funny things to people. So it's not necessarily Fury and Juniper blaming Bryce, but their friendship was fractured during this horrible.

[Natalie Jean]

Yeah, of course. Which I'm also. I imagine there's a portion of Bryce, who also is pulling away from everybody too and not responding. And you know, unfortunately, no matter what you're going through, if people keep hitting you up, keep hitting you up and you never respond. So they're going to stop, they're gonna stop inviting you out places.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

Absolutely. Although I will say Bryce mentions in this series of chapters that she keeps trying to call and call and call and they never answer. So it's the fury's the one who's not answering, it seems like. And Juniper sometimes does, but we'll get into that. So we meet Bryce in this first part two section and she's at her old haunt, the White Raven. We learn through her thoughts that she's only here because she has a job to do that night and otherwise avoids it because, I don't know, all of the trauma. I guess probably I'd be terrified of.

[Natalie Jean]

Something happening the moment I walked in there.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

And also, I bet you just. Yeah, exactly. You'd walk in and all you'd be thinking about was that night and everything that happened. Yeah. So normally you're not going to be hanging out at the club where you were when all your friends were ripped apart. But she takes advantage of this club lifestyle and this moment of being here. Enough to roar one out with a lion shifter in the bathroom?

[Natalie Jean]

Hell yeah, Natalie, sometimes you gotta roar one out. But then that's the thing. If you're with a lion shifter, do you want them to remain a lion?

[Jackie Zabrowski]

No, I feel like the genitals won't line up.

[Natalie Jean]

What if it's like fun new ones? I have no idea. You know, really depends on what happens post shift.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

I just feel as though so many different animals, genitals are like sharp and barbs are in them.

[Natalie Jean]

There's like curlicue on screws and stuff. Yeah, well, I'm not out here bangin ducks.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

So many animals. Penises are shaped so that they can't. The female can't escape.

[Natalie Jean]

Can't escape. Yeah, it's really great. Isn't it beautiful? You know, you really gotta get in there and hold on.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

Yeah, so that's what Bryce is doing in the bathroom. Naughty, naughty. We also learn in this chapter she's not drinking. We take a moment to acknowledge the humor in the shifter, thinking she's a sex worker simply because she doesn't want to hang out afterwards.

[Natalie Jean]

Which man I must have been. A lot of people thought about me because I used to go, peace. By don't want to know ya.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

I mean, I. If they're going to offer to pay like, okay then. But I guess suddenly you are a sex worker.

[Natalie Jean]

Which is fine.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

Which is fine.

[Natalie Jean]

Great.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

Just be prepared for that.

[Natalie Jean]

Honestly, banging while standing up in a bathroom is a lot of work.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

It is.

[Natalie Jean]

I'd rather get paid for it.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

If only there was other choices where you didn't have to have sex in the bathroom. It's just like, you got to have to do it.

[Natalie Jean]

But I've heard of bad.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

So.

[Natalie Jean]

I love that you have full abs on. I can see how uncomfortable you are sitting here with the full abs on.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

I'm wearing them again when I have an open shirt and you're gonna see me.

[Natalie Jean]

I mean, if you. I understand. Open shirt. I get you. But right now you're just like. And I think I like. I think it's good for you to be uncomfortable. We should always, you know. Is that not where growth comes?

[Jackie Zabrowski]

Self imposed discomfort matter?

[Natalie Jean]

Yeah.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

Yeah, probably. I feel like I'm growing right now. Yeah. So the lion shifter says he's confused when she just wants to leave. And he tries to say, I can't pay you. And she's just. She thinks it's hilarious, which I love. But beyond this little romp, she needed to be here because Jesupa needs her to meet with these a particular vampire in the VIP section of the club.

[Natalie Jean]

Vampire in person.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

Vampire in person.

[Natalie Jean]

Vip. It wasn't funny.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

I didn't understand. I know. I do like. I do like it. I just didn't give it. But he's a fan.

[Natalie Jean]

Makes sense that he would be in the vampire person section of the club.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

Yes. So a fancy. He's a fancy vampy. His name's Maximus Tertian and he has some dealings with Jesupa.

[Natalie Jean]

You know he's fancy because he goes by Maximus and not Max.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

Yeah, he refuses to be called Max and he's in the vampires in person section, which is hard to get into.

[Natalie Jean]

Yeah, this is big for him.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

So Bryce's boss, of course, is Jesiba at the antique store in which she works just as a refresher in Midgard.

[Natalie Jean]

Vampirs are veneer deriving from hell. Descendants of lesser demons. They rely on human blood for sustenance.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

Immediately, Maximus is clocked for being a creep. And I mean, he is a vampire. So I think generally they are creeps because they're trying to trick you at all times.

[Natalie Jean]

Whoa. I think it depends on what world of vampires you're living in. Natalie, I feel like you're being very vampist right now. Depends.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

I mean, look, we can all say we love Twilight. But they are creepists.

[Natalie Jean]

I think it's also because I just finished the second season of Interview with a Vampire, so I'm also thinking about those kind. Because, like, not. Hashtag, not all vampires. I'm just saying.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

Okay. See, I haven't started the show, but in the movie Interview with Vampire, they're. They're all pretty much creeps.

[Natalie Jean]

Yeah.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

You know?

[Natalie Jean]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

So he is acting like a general creepy vamp person towards Bryce. Even though she's there to do a deal with him for her boss, he makes it clear that he's either or trying to fuck and eat her.

[Natalie Jean]

Oh, maybe both. Don't do that.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

I know how much you like it.

[Natalie Jean]

Oh, no. Don't know. I know it would be very scary if I was in the vampire in person section, and I know that I would be very scared, but also. Oh, God.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

I mean, speaking of interview the vampire that seemed to scare the crap out of me as a kid. Whenever they look like they're. They're with the two women and it looks like they're going to be, like, making love with them, and they. They start necking the women and they're, like, all into it, and they look down and they see that their blood. Their blood is pouring all over them. They start freaking out. That should scared the crap out of me as a kid.

[Natalie Jean]

Yeah, it scared me, too.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

You didn't find it scary when they put her in a coffin?

[Natalie Jean]

I'm sure I was very scared. I'm very sure. That was before I was thinking about having sex in coffins. All right.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

With the lid on?

[Natalie Jean]

Sure.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

Oh, are you kidding?

[Natalie Jean]

It would be rare. Talk about difficult. I would want to get paid after that. If I'm fucking in a coffin, I want to make money on it.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

I'm truly stunned that you wouldn't feel claustrophobia in that situation.

[Natalie Jean]

I mean, I say this, but I've never actually. It's not like. Like, I don't want to be in complete darkness and. Well, no, I take it back. No, I'm here for it.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

Wow.

[Natalie Jean]

Yeah. And be like, I don't know. What vampire is this? Oh, what year is this? How did you get in my coffin?

[Jackie Zabrowski]

I just think that I. I've seen Kill Bill too many times, you know?

[Natalie Jean]

Yeah. Oh, yeah. No, I mean, I don't want to be. There's nothing horny about getting, like, buried alive.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

Okay, well, now we know your threshold.

[Natalie Jean]

Thank you. See? Boundaries. It's important to talk these things.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

Maximus has a classic. What we would consider a classic vampire look. He's got the slick back hair and the black jacket and all that stuff. And Bryce knows that his reputation is seedy and dangerous, even in the world of vamps. AKA he's known to be vicious and manipulative. Did I date him in my twenties?

[Natalie Jean]

This is what I'm talking about, Natalie. We say we don't want it. We say that we would never. And then you think about, like, really think about it. It's like, man, I wish one of them had been a vampire. At least I could be like, well, at least they were a vampire.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

Oh, at least. Yeah, there.

[Natalie Jean]

You know what I mean?

[Jackie Zabrowski]

There's some kind of, like, special experience I could take away from this magic.

[Natalie Jean]

Like, yeah, there's like, wow, I really learned something and I grew from it rather than what actually happened.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

They made my. They made my self esteem disappear.

[Natalie Jean]

Yeah. Hey, hey. What was that magic? Come on. So just years of treating ourselves poorly is what happened.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

And so goes the song and dance known to many women of all worlds, when you have to pretend like someone isn't being completely inappropriate in order to keep your job. Which is garbage, by the way, but a reality. Maximus and Jesiba are working on a deal regarding a bust of some famous vamp. And Bryce is there to close the deal and get the money. Both she and Jesper know that she's here.

[Natalie Jean]

Are you talking about tatas? Huh? Yeah. How big? I say one hand or two hands? How big's the bust?

[Jackie Zabrowski]

I had to go back through the thing I said it was the bus.

[Natalie Jean]

That I got lost in.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

That she's meant to be eye candy. So her Jasper know that she is supposed to be sort of alluring. But that never means the recipient of the eye candy is owed anything.

[Natalie Jean]

No. Yes. Thank you, Natalie.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

As Max mauls over the paperwork Bryce has brought him. Bryce looks out over the dance floor, which is where they're sitting in the VIP balcony. It's overlooking the dance floor. And she reminisces internally about a simpler time when she was like the young girls on the dance floor. Oh, some of them are clearly celebrating their drops because there is a tradition to wear a bit of their first light as jewelry, which Bryce describes as looking like glow necklaces or, you know, like glow sticks. Like a. Like. Sounds sort of like a bachelor party or something.

[Natalie Jean]

It sounds like a fun party that I want to go to.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

Yeah, so does Bryce. But she's not gonna be able to.

[Natalie Jean]

No, because she was gonna do it with Danika.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

They had a whole plan for their. Their drop party. There's a slow Rollout of explanation of First Light in this first section of the book. And Bryce thinks it over as she watches the dance floor. We learn about First Light in many different chapters. And it talks. You kind of get little drips and drops of what the happens during the drop through all of it.

[Natalie Jean]

It is confusing. Like, a part of the reason why, again, we're going through these books is because I remember at first being like, what is it? Where does it come from? And then it was just these little drips. I'm like, but what is it? And we'll learn more as time goes on.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

It's a one.

[Natalie Jean]

And you're supposed to kind of be confused at this point.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

Yeah. You're just sort of going, okay, okay.

[Natalie Jean]

Drop, first light. Okay. Okay.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

So what we're kind of learning in this section is first light is something that they generate from this ritual of the drop. So when they're doing this really challenging thing, they generate this sort of power from inside of their bodies, only the veneer, not humans. And Bryce describes the drop as a terrifying experience. So that's why the celebration happens afterwards, because you've done it and you've made this big milestone in your life, and the. The scary parts over and you've survived. This, however, produces this first light. When you come up from it, produces their version of electricity for their cities.

[Natalie Jean]

And it was only during the drop that the flash of first light appeared. Raw, unfiltered magic. It could heal and destroy and do everything in between. Captured and bottled. The first glow was always used for healing. Then the rest of it was handed over to the energy plants to fuel their lights and cars and machines and tech. Some of it was used for spells, and some was reserved for whatever shady shit the Republic wanted. The donation of the first light by each citizen was a key element of the drop ritual. Part of why it was always done in a government center, a sterile room where the light from the person making the drop was gobbled up during the transition into immortality and true power.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

So it's like sort of like generating electricity mixed with having your period.

[Natalie Jean]

Yay. But at least afterwards, like, if I'm gonna go through all that, at least then you get to be immortal.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

Yes, exactly.

[Natalie Jean]

We get nothing.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

Having your period just means you can.

[Natalie Jean]

Like, have a baby. But, like, what if you're not?

[Jackie Zabrowski]

But yeah. The vast majority of having your period is pain, fear, emotional distress, shame.

[Natalie Jean]

Don't forget shame. Shame.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

Constantly being worried.

[Natalie Jean]

Yes.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

Yeah. No magic powers. Except for you getting to be an extra big bitch.

[Natalie Jean]

Hell, yeah.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

So she's Basically describing a corrupted government that she doesn't trust that sort of takes some of their. Their. Their. Their body fluids to use for whatever they. They need, quote, unquote. It's like taking us, like, our tax dollars. Well, our tax dollars technically could produce things like streets and roads and br. It's like. I feel like it's. Yeah. I mean, don't talk badly about our government.

[Natalie Jean]

I mean, I enjoy and I like.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

But it's kind of. To me, it almost feels like a tithing, like.

[Natalie Jean]

Yes.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

You're. You're.

[Natalie Jean]

You're. You're having all this power and you got to give a little bit of it. Yes.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

Even though it's just something that comes out naturally. But they have to do it in, like, a hospital almost. So it's like this medical procedure. And so, like, the drop again, she's describing parts of it where you are essentially jumping into some, like, psychical tunnel. It's like you're jumping off a cliff, but it's inside of your magic spirit.

[Natalie Jean]

Your mind.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

Yeah. Because your body stays right. So your spirit.

[Natalie Jean]

It's like a really great trip where you also get immortality afterwards, but you.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

Can technically die if you don't get back in time. So there's six minutes that they. They start counting down before you really start. Essentially the way you might say, oh, if you lose oxygen to the brain for so many minutes, then you're probably never going to come back. That kind of happens, too, with the drop, if you don't make it back in the allotted time. So this is the bottom when they're. When you're going all the way to the very bottom of your power as veneer in this world. That's where your bottom of your power is. So that's why people have different levels of power. Because some people go much deeper than others in this sort of like, cerebral.

[Natalie Jean]

Yeah, cerebral. Just take it. Cerebral. All right. You drop, and then you're immortal and you gotta get back.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

Yeah. And you gotta get back up. So once you reach the bottom, you gotta. You gotta zip yourself back up. And you have an anchor who's out there with your body that needs to kind of help you return. Like, it's like a light saying, come back, Come back.

[Natalie Jean]

And so, like, you, Natalie, for me. Oh, every day when I wake up, I see Natalie. You've got to be in my bedroom. Because if I. If I'm dreaming, you have to be able to be there to be like, you're here, you're here. And it's like, I could ask my husband to do it. But why, when I want it to be Natalie? I need the sister. Sister in law bond.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

It's really. It's causing a lot of problems.

[Natalie Jean]

Difficult for both of our husbands. But they're getting used to it.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

Yeah, they better.

[Natalie Jean]

I mean, look at us. They obviously, they need to get used to it because look at angels of different kinds.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

Henry loves this look on me. I'll tell you honestly, he did see.

[Natalie Jean]

You right before we started, and he. It seemed that he was into it, but I think that he's into you. And isn't that beautiful?

[Jackie Zabrowski]

I'm gonna say he wasn't super into this look, but that's very sweet of you, Jackie.

[Natalie Jean]

I think that, like, Henry has a soft hard on for Tommy Wiseau. It's softy hard. It's in between.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

I don't want to believe that.

[Natalie Jean]

So especially him with that big white jeep with a big old cigar.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

Imagine I just imagine going like him just over top of you. So. So the anchor helps them come back to the surface and they reenter their body, and it's known as the ascent. And then basically the aging process is slowed down by like 500% or something. And they are those creatures, the veneer become immortal in the terms that they use the term immortal in this world, which is not fully immortal, but like hundreds and hundreds of years. They get to live and they get to be, like, super hot the whole time, which is kind of the best part about them.

[Natalie Jean]

It's the best part of writing that into your own world of like, yeah, you live forever, but also, you're really, really hot.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

Yeah, like the whole time. Him. Unless you're some kind of who tries to get into a cauldron.

[Natalie Jean]

Oh, we're not talking about Acotar right now.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

Natalie Bryce laments over watching the drop party and then thinking about her own drop party that she and Danica had been planning for a long time.

[Natalie Jean]

Used to be my playground.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

They had both decided they were going to try to wait till they were 27. They figured in their minds that was like the perfect age.

[Natalie Jean]

Used to be my childhood dreams.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

I was gonna try to harmonize, but then you went up.

[Natalie Jean]

Yeah, you know, I'm. I'm there with you supporting whether you want me to or not. Also, that was a league of their own reference for anyone that you didn't understand. Our interesting deep cut of a Madonna song that nobody thinks about anymore.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

I think about it all the time.

[Natalie Jean]

I think about that moment and I sing to myself. This used to be my playground. Whenever I'm Thinking about something I missed from my childhood.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

You should. It's a great song. And yeah, that's me saying that. A non Madonna person. Oh, so she and Danica of course are never going to have that drop party. And in fact, Bryce still has not done her own drop, making her very vulnerable in the present moment. Maximus has decided he's satisfied with the deal after looking over the papers. And Bryce scores the bag, which is to say a big check. However, as she takes the check and is about to bounce, saying thank you, he stops her propositioning her. She declines. And then he becomes more forceful, suggesting that she must have been provided to him for extra entertainment.

[Natalie Jean]

Well, it had to be a record. Being mistaken for a whore twice within 10 minutes.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

And she goes on to think about how she has no disdain for that practice. She's just simply not doing that. So she tries to brush him off without pissing him off, because again, she's working. And he gets increasingly more aggressive and demanding. Gripping her side. She just begins to panic when she senses a powerful force enter the VIP lounge. And the vampire retreats when he feels it. She's relieved for a minute, thinking that there's a distraction she can zip out. But then she realizes it's. It's her quote cousin. Crowned Prince of the Fallburg Fae Ruhn Danaan.

[Natalie Jean]

Oh my God, Rune. The things I'd let you run about my life.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

Yeah, it's. He's definitely up there for me. Especially because he's alleged to resemble another character in the book.

[Natalie Jean]

I'm just sad because I wanted to dress as Ruhn for an episode coming up and I like, like just grew out my side shave and it took me a year and it's still growing out. I had the perfect hair to be ruined in. And I'm sad about it now.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

It's really hard to get a wig that looks right with a shaved side.

[Natalie Jean]

Yes, it's also really hard to get a haircut when you have a shaved side of your head as well. And just letting everybody know why everyone out there back out and it's taking so long. Anyway, we're not talking about my side shave, but Rune Dannon, Prince of the Valberon Fae, has a side shape. And he is hotty, hottie, hottie with the potty. Potty, Potty.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

Yeah. He has long black hair on one side that he flips over and the other side shaves shaved.

[Natalie Jean]

And he's covered in tattoos.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

Covered in tattoos. He's got all that parising. So no, he's not actually her cousin in Fact, he is her half brother. Though we learn that he's her brother in the first couple chapters through dialogue, we are still kind of gaining information about their actual relationship. And we learn he's a prince during the interrogation room scene, whenever Bryce is in shock and they're trying to understand what happened that night, so he busts in, and then we kind of learn at that point that he's a prince. So when we meet him briefly in the police station, we don't really get a sense of Bryce and Ruhn's relationship because Bryce was in full shock.

[Natalie Jean]

Yeah, she was, like, barely a person at that moment in time.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

But we do know she's irritated by him by the way she had talked about him at the beginning. No longer thrilled at her escape plan for Maximus, now that she has to deal with her cousin brother, she tries to brush Ruhn off, who is dressed in a tight black T shirt, dark jeans, with tattooed sleeves in lines of rings and one pointed ear. Is that a boner?

[Natalie Jean]

Yeah, that was me. That was. Yeah. I should. I should tie little bells to it so I can go ding ling. Ding ling ling. See, Always.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

Everybody knows.

[Natalie Jean]

Yeah.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

But ruin is there to speak to her and protect her. To her discontent, the owner of the Raven, she doesn't need to be protected.

[Natalie Jean]

But also, does she need to be protected?

[Jackie Zabrowski]

I, you know, I get the defensiveness about all the protection, but, like, do you know what it's like when no men or anybody tries to protect you ever? Like, don't be so. Don't look a gift horse in the face.

[Natalie Jean]

I think it depends on how they are protecting you and why they are protecting you.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

She was about to get grabbed up by a vampire.

[Natalie Jean]

Yes. In this situation, I'd be like, thank you, Ruhn. And I feel that especially. I feel like it's a young game, too, of no one can tell me what to do when people are like, I'm not trying to tell you what to do. Trying to help you a little bit. So I'm a less, like, defiant in that way and more in a.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

Help me, take care of me, you know, it's so. It's really interesting. Probably that has something to do with our places in our families, because as the oldest daughter, there wasn't anybody ever, like, help trying to help.

[Natalie Jean]

That makes sense. And I'm so used to Henry. I'm so used to having an older brother.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

I mean, that's just you being the youngest sibling. It's like, not a special, like, it's. It's a normal dynamic. Right, right, right. You. You've always had older siblings around you. And as the baby, it's like, not. There's. There's both, like, pluses and minus to both sides of it.

[Natalie Jean]

Oh. Yeah.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

But that's why I would. I kind of feel like I don't even know that feeling of being, like, don't protect me, you know, because I never got it.

[Natalie Jean]

Oh, my God. About it, Natalie. But this is. You know, it's also something that, like, Bryce did have because you know that she has good parents that she's still close to. But then, like, think of the trust and everything that would be broken after what has happened to her. Like, how do you let anyone protect you after what just happened? Because who do you trust?

[Jackie Zabrowski]

Yeah. No, So I. That. That I can relate to where you just don't. You don't trust anybody, and you don't want to trust yourself. You don't. You just, like. You just. You just. You closed off.

[Natalie Jean]

Yeah. So you're broken, not bent.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

We can learn to love again.

[Natalie Jean]

Thank you. Pink.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

Pink. Thank you.

[Natalie Jean]

Man, she's so tight with all that aerial work. We don't need to talk about pink right now. But, man, she's so strong.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

So the reason that Ruhn knows that she's in danger is because the owner of the Raven, who is a butterfly shifter, is friends with Ruhn and called him in to say, looks like some trouble's happening with your cousin or whatever.

[Natalie Jean]

I don't know why I feel like immediately a butterfly shifter would be so much fun to do drugs with. I feel like all of a sudden, and then it's like you turn into a big butterfly. You're like, whoa.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

I mean, I think they're insinuating that in that he owns that party spot.

[Natalie Jean]

Yeah, right.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

I just feel like that's such a risky shift creature to have.

[Natalie Jean]

Yeah. That you're gonna get destroyed.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

I keep saying that when we're talking about this. I don't. I would be too afraid to be something like that because everything can kill you.

[Natalie Jean]

But I don't know. Do they have a choice?

[Jackie Zabrowski]

No. Not in this world, I don't.

[Natalie Jean]

Yeah.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

Anyway, Rune is there to tell her that her bio dad, the Autumn King, wants her to essentially behave for the next couple of months while the city's leaders are preparing for and then experiencing the summit meeting in Lunathean. So this is a new thing that we're learning about, which basically is being described as a meeting, like a gathering, sort of like a UN meeting that occurs every 10 years of Vulbara's Ruling power to debate issues or policies. So the Autumn King is essentially just saying, I don't want you to embarrass me, so fucking stay out of trouble. Which is great. Thank you so much for that. For the. For the concern.

[Natalie Jean]

Yeah. Because you. We know that you only are concerned with yourself, so.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

Yes. But it's clear immediately that Ruhn is not also feeling that way. He's telling her to be careful because he's actually showing consideration and care for her.

[Natalie Jean]

Yes.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

Whereas her father is just saying, get out of. Don't make me embarrassed.

[Natalie Jean]

Do what I say.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

Yeah. During this little back and forth between the two of them, he happens to bring up Danika in that. In that sequence of back and forth conversation, which she does not enjoy. And she reacts by crushing her glass with uncontrollable fury because she wants to keep her name out of his mouth.

[Natalie Jean]

Hell, yeah.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

Okay. She clearly holds a lot of animosity towards her brother, though we don't fully know why at this point, other than you could say, oh, maybe just because her dad is a point of trauma for her and she doesn't want to be around them. But it seems like Rune's, like, a decent Fae, you know, or at least.

[Natalie Jean]

Coming about it in a way that was. It's like, no, he's obviously just trying to look out for you.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

Yeah.

[Natalie Jean]

This is definitely one of those perspective things of, like, God, if I was in Bryce Quinlan's head, like, I completely understand where she's coming from. But it's like, he's obviously not doing. You're not. But, you know, trauma. Yeah. Ain't just a Revlon Angel.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

Right.

[Natalie Jean]

That works, right? Yeah.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

He seems like he cares at the very least. He's shown up twice to try to save her from stuff.

[Natalie Jean]

Yeah.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

In fact, she tells him in that moment. Okay. She kind of, like, doesn't completely brush him off. She says, I'll be a good girl, and attempts to leave. And he asks her to let him walk her home since she's been quote, partying. And this is when we learn that Bryce has actually been sober since that fateful night two years ago. She. Which is. That's a hard.

[Natalie Jean]

That's good for.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

But I get it. There's been points where I've stopped drinking or cut back on drinking in my life because I knew that I would. I was so sad or like, something was so hard in that point that I would. I would lose my mind. Like, I would spiral.

[Natalie Jean]

Yeah.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

And I just went. I can't. Not that I haven't accessible. Drank in my life.

[Natalie Jean]

That's it. You. It takes time and years, I think, of experience to understand, like, hey, this isn't gonna help. That's not gonna do anything. That's not gonna change anything. It's not going to change what happened. It's only going to make me feel worse. And it takes, I think, some wisdom sometimes to get to that point.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

It's true. It's also hard when you kind of want to make yourself feel worse, feel bad.

[Natalie Jean]

Yeah, but I don't know anything about that.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

Bryce has not been drinking this night nor the last two years. But she doesn't tell Ruhn this. She seems to want to keep her reputation as a dumb party girl.

[Natalie Jean]

It's easier to hide in.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

Even though they are sniping at each other. As she leaves, she knows Ruhn is trailing her on her walk home, which is very sweet. He's just like trying to quietly make sure she's okay.

[Natalie Jean]

Oh my God. The years of Henry doing this in my life, just being like, I know you're making bad decisions, but I just, I'm here, I'm on the, the outside, I'm over here and I just get away from me. I'm making my own bad decisions. And he always would help me pick up the pieces. So that's why I think I see there's a lot of like. I mean, I don't look at Henry and think Rune Dannon, because I can't viscerally. But at least like in the. The beauty of their relationship.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

Yeah, totally. And I mean it is your guys's like dynamic of the older brother and the younger sister, which is me.

[Natalie Jean]

I know.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

Never experienced.

[Natalie Jean]

It is, you know, it's. It's wonderful. It is amazing in so many ways. And there are just certain points in your life where you do the like, ugh. And then you look back on, you're like, oh, you were just being. You were being it. Huh?

[Jackie Zabrowski]

Fun.

[Natalie Jean]

I will be your old brother, Natalie.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

Oh, too late. Oh, all the mistakes have been made.

[Natalie Jean]

Isn't that kind of nice? No. Don't worry, Natalie. There are plenty.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

Oh yeah. They'll meet. They'll be coming.

[Natalie Jean]

Oh, yeah.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

So he is trailing her back to her home. But we learn here it's not the home she had at the beginning of the book. Again, not that shared apartment. Because could you imagine your almost boyfriend and your best friend's body parts were strewn across your bedroom. Do you think you would stay in that? I would rather be homeless.

[Natalie Jean]

Oh, yeah.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

So no, she's not there. She's actually had quite the upgrade since then. We see her flip off Ruhn as she enters the luxury building that we find out is her front entranceway. And he stands across the street until she gets inside. She thinks about how she ended up here in this building because of Danika's will. She's obviously not happy about it, but she definitely wanted to accept the extra security. And, you know, she's pretty terrified now. Of what? Of whatever happened and has a lot of ptsd. So I imagine just having all of the locks and stuff on the apartment door. And plus, like, she might be like, I didn't earn this, but, like, you still get, like, a really nice apartment.

[Natalie Jean]

Yeah. And also it's something from Danica. It's like some. I feel like that would be the kind of, like, she wanted me to have this. She left this for me, so I'm going to take it.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

It would be kind of weird and kind of like. I don't know. I think it would be psychologically damaging if your friend did this and then you denied taking the gifts she was, like, offering.

[Natalie Jean]

Yeah, it's gonna fuck you up in a completely different way.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

Yeah. It's not what she would want. So in this, we also learned that C. Ranks has moved in with her and is now basically her pet. Because Syrinx was, of course, before Antiquities. What's it called? Not a compl.

[Natalie Jean]

Chimera.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

I was gonna say an acquisition. It was a. Syrinx is a very rare breed of creature, and it was an acquisition that Griffin Antiquities had achieved, and Bryce kind of just always looked at him as a pet, and we learn a lot more about that creature. But it is a Chimera, which is a thing that exists in the lore of Earth people.

[Natalie Jean]

Us.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

Yeah, I think I did mention it, but it is a fire breathing female monster with a lion's head, a goat's body, and a serpent's tail, which is not exactly what Syrinx is like, but it's a. Syrinx is seemingly a concoction of animals mixed together, just. Just different ones than our lore.

[Natalie Jean]

Hell, yeah. Put them in a blender, watch them spin round till they're a beautiful animal. No, it's good. It's a. It's a. It's the blender of life.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

Ew.

[Natalie Jean]

You put all the parts in and see what it squeezes out of its hole.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

So we're all just a bunch of slop. You're right. We are.

[Natalie Jean]

Honestly, aren't we? Isn't there, like, something in us that, like, makes your brain tell your body that we don't feel all of the organs moving around in our, like, sloshing around in there.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

Isn't there a disorder? This is not.

[Natalie Jean]

This is nothing to do with any of this.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

I'm sure I just saw this on Tik Tok or something. So please don't take anything I'm saying seriously. But isn't there a disorder where you can.

[Natalie Jean]

You feel.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

Do you feel the moving around?

[Natalie Jean]

It's got to be if there's something that makes it stop. Just kind of fun, though.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

So many. Probably not so many squiggles in there.

[Natalie Jean]

Yeah, man. A lot of gushing.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

So.

[Natalie Jean]

God, imagine if you could hear the gush of your blood in your veins. Think about what a vampire has to go through. They have to think about that all the time.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

Nobody ever thinks about it. Think about the vampires, what they have to feel. If I was a vampire, I would put blood in gushers and eat them like that.

[Natalie Jean]

Oh, my God. Yeah. But then wouldn't have to be, like, some sort of, like, gummy piece of thigh bone or.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

Yeah, you'd use some kind of, like, viscera or something as the outside or.

[Natalie Jean]

I guess. Isn't that just kind of what gelatin is anyway? Right? Isn't it?

[Jackie Zabrowski]

That's true, unfortunately. Yeah, you're right. It is.

[Natalie Jean]

So there you go. Yeah, it just poofs.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

So it's gelatin made out of human bones. Blood in the center.

[Natalie Jean]

Don't say we never teach you anything here.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

I should pitch that to vampires. Yeah.

[Natalie Jean]

You should get Maximus back in here.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

He can't. He did.

[Natalie Jean]

Ugh. Good.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

So now we get this little glimpse into what her private life is like, which is, by what we can gauge, very isolated and lonely.

[Natalie Jean]

Yeah.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

But she's, like, chosen that in a lot of ways. Although she is still trying to talk to some of her friends, she doesn't really want to make new ones.

[Natalie Jean]

No.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

So in chapter nine, we head back to BE with Hunt, and we get a good idea of what his job is in this chapter. Oh, he's scary. It is intense. He is getting info out of people at any cost, generally. And it's kind of not the correct term to say job, because he is in servitude and he doesn't really have any choice except maybe, you know, the hardest choice that you would make, which.

[Natalie Jean]

Is to just kill yourself, is the waiting. Oh, I thought the waiting was the hardest part.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

It is.

[Natalie Jean]

But also having to, you know, work your way by killing people every day to get yourself out of servitude, I imagine, is Just as difficult as the waiting reading.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

Maybe, maybe just. I don't know, it's hard to say which one, but it does really. It doesn't really make it any easier to read that this character we're obviously following internally so is of importance is gutting a man alive in this chapter. But he does have some things in common with Azrael, I will say. You know, that's what we kind of gauge at the beginning that he. But he. In this, in this world, Hunt isn't doing it for some cause. He's doing it because he really doesn't have a choice. So after a brief look into Hunt's night's work, which includes the killing of multiple men, we then follow him back up to the barracks at the Commedium, which is a building that seems to be set up like a military hall or a dorm hall where the indentured angels all live and work together.

[Natalie Jean]

Not Sandriel, though.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

Sandriel is an archangel. You don't think about it.

[Natalie Jean]

Be scared.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

You're in some kind of palace. Yeah, so the big. Yeah, I'm sure it is. Because it has big enough to be a bunch of torture dungeons in it, you know, and just think of how.

[Natalie Jean]

Big their beds have to be. Just with their wings. Kings.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

Oh, yeah.

[Natalie Jean]

You gotta have a huge bed. They must have to get like an angel sized bed, which is annoying.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

Yeah, an angel bed. Yeah. So that's like two or three kings put together.

[Natalie Jean]

Damn. All right, I can angel. I do it for the bed.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

They do it for the, the mattress.

[Natalie Jean]

That's when, you know, you're 37. You know, I do it. How good is the mattress then? That's what I'm really going there for. I mean, in my 20s, I fucked for AC when I lived in New York, and now I need mattresses. Or if, like, you happen to, like, know a good dermatologist, but I have to have sex with you before you tell me the good dermatologist. Like, these are the things that you're willing to do.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

Well, that's why your husband has to consistently learn different things to please you so that you don't go outside of the marriage.

[Natalie Jean]

Yeah. I think that all couples should live in fear.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

That's. That's it.

[Natalie Jean]

You're welcome. Yep, that's it. So I'm sorry, I'm Sandriel. All right, so I've got different. I feel differently. You're like human. Jackie does.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

You're. You're getting into character.

[Natalie Jean]

I'm getting into character.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

The committee is buildings owned by the Government, and as an extension, Micah, the governor. Angel.

[Natalie Jean]

It's almost like it's. Because then it feels more like barracks. Like, it does feel like military, you know, it's not fun.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

No, no, this isn't nice. It's just. It's where it's, like, very. It seems sterile to me. That's what I imagine that it's like sort of almost like a hospital in certain ways, where it's fancy. It's not like it's dingy, but they don't have, like, any pleasures there. It's just to store them.

[Natalie Jean]

Even as you're saying it, I feel like I can see it as the honors dorm that I stayed in in Florida State, where, like, all the other dorms were really, really shitty, but I was in the honors dorm. And so the smarter people things. But it's still a dorm, so it was the nicest dorm, but it was still a dorm.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

Is that a thing that other colleges do, that if you get better, higher grades, you don't have to have a shitty.

[Natalie Jean]

Thanks. Florida State. I felt safe in my dorm.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

That seems really unethical.

[Natalie Jean]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But, you know, when in Florida we had.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

We had a sober dorm. Like, one dorm building was sobriety dorm.

[Natalie Jean]

Was it actually sober?

[Jackie Zabrowski]

Yeah, it was.

[Natalie Jean]

That's great.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

People who wanted to be sober, so you had to choose to. You had to apply to being that one. Because the rest of them weren't as.

[Natalie Jean]

Yeah, they didn't want to get it.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

I remember when one of my friends got expelled for shooting heroin in his apartment.

[Natalie Jean]

Hell, yeah.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

Yeah. Hell, yeah.

[Natalie Jean]

Yeah. I think it's okay to get kicked out of your dorm for doing that.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

I think it's so not a sober dorm.

[Natalie Jean]

No.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

So, yeah, they kind of live in this way. Although we do learn that they have, like, commons rooms and stuff where they can hang out, probably just so they don't go completely insane.

[Natalie Jean]

Yeah.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

And they also kind of paint Micah as. Maybe he's not as bad. He's like, maybe not that bad of an archangel. So maybe he's, like, giving them little allowances like this. And we get sort of almost like a visual tracking shot of Hunt as he is walking through these halls. He goes into the commons room. He passes by other people's apartment building, apartment doors, and he hears the noises of the other rooms. And we get a sense that he is also very isolated and alone. But he hears other people, other angels engaging in phone calls, sex, and gaming. So all of these other angels have these other outs. Exterior lives that he doesn't Seem to have.

[Natalie Jean]

No.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

And it immediately, again, gives us another person all alone, who was. What's gonna happen? Looking in where the others seem to have some form of communal connection. He walks this lonely street on the boulevard.

[Natalie Jean]

Broken. Oh, no, not the later Green Day reference.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

He tries to also. He also pushes people away because we see as he enters his own private commons with his other colleagues. He tries to hide before any of them can start speaking to him. And we've learned we've met a couple of them already. But the colleagues who are sitting in the commons room in the scene are Victoria, Naomi, and Justinian, who are just hanging out. They try to make small talk with him. And Justinian called, calls him a sick fuck. Because they all can see and smell what he did that night. Again, he didn't have any choice, but.

[Natalie Jean]

And they know that.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

But they're kind of. They're. They're kind of saying it in a camaraderie way, sort of like, you sick.

[Natalie Jean]

Yeah, because they're all lap dogs. Sorry. Even as you brought this up, I was like, man, I never looked up a picture of Isaiah, and.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

Really?

[Natalie Jean]

Yeah. I don't know why it took me so long to look at the picture of Isaiah.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

He's handsome.

[Natalie Jean]

I mean, I know they're all gonna be hot. It just depends on what flavor of hot they're gonna be, you know?

[Jackie Zabrowski]

Yeah. So Hunt, because he's covered in blood, they're. They're basically alluding to that he didn't get these kills cleanly, but Hunt mumbles that he was forced to do it dirty at the request of Micah. So Micah has sent him out to get information, but really just to punish these men for whatever they did. And.

[Natalie Jean]

Yeah, it's more like a hit list than. Than an information list.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

Right. And he. And Micah wants it done pa Fully and slow, which is great.

[Natalie Jean]

It's also. It's just like. It takes so much time, you know? It's like Hunt has a whole list. He's got a lot of people he's got to kill. You want each one to be slow.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

Thousands, actually. But Micah wants them to suffer. Naomi mentions that Hunt and Isaiah are supposed to investigate a murder in Old Square tomorrow. The section of town where Griffith, Griffin Antiquities and Bryce's old apartment are. Hunt thinks about his dislike of this city, how Isaiah has blended in much better than he has and enjoys a revolving door of beautiful men through his dorm.

[Natalie Jean]

I could watch a tape or two. I just want to make sure everybody's having a good time.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

Hunt is obviously not experiencing those Same social engagements. No, but he does think about how he's thankful that Lunatheon isn't revilich, which is where he was for a long time. And here we get a barrage of thoughts that break down some of Hunt's backstory, how he ended up in Micah's Triari, which, again, Triari is the tip top soldiers who protect the government in this world.

[Natalie Jean]

So he's like the elite of the angels that even live in the angel dorm room. Yeah.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

So I actually looked this up. The term Triari comes from the Roman Republic, which is the time before the Roman Empire. And it's a term about the most wealthy soldiers. So they were considered like, the top, because if you were rich as a soldier, it was, I guess, a big deal.

[Natalie Jean]

Then you were wealthy.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

Look how scary these. I put a picture of the Triari uniforms in the script here.

[Natalie Jean]

They got a head on their helmet. They've got, like a face on their helmet.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

Yes. In modern era. It looks kind of silly, but I'm sure this was a terrifying.

[Natalie Jean]

Eyes are up here, and they go. Oh, eyes are down here. Yes.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

Because the helmet has eyeballs on the top of it. And so Jackie was making a jape about how she sounds like she's talking about breasts, but she's talking about two sets of eyes.

[Natalie Jean]

My eyes on the helmet.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

That's for all of you.

[Natalie Jean]

Thank you.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

So Hunt ended up here in Lunathean because he was actually helping to head the rebellion against the angels back hundreds of years ago. We mentioned the. The rebellion a little bit so far in the books, but he and this archangel named Shahar. Not me, not Shahar, but looking like Shahar. They were sort of running the. The. They were heading this rebellion, trying to fight against the tyranny, power, and the archangels and essentially the Asteri on top of them. So in this liberation front, Hunt was the general of the army and the general of Shahar's loins.

[Natalie Jean]

Oh, no. I feel like it's probably. You know, I've never led a rebellion before. Surprise. But I feel like it's probably no good if you and your honey are leading the rebellion. I feel like it's never. You hope it's gonna end really well.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

But that's how, I mean, couples are supposed to bond.

[Natalie Jean]

Yeah.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

Shared and trust, I guess.

[Natalie Jean]

What else are you supposed to do when you're dating in your 30s? You know, lead a rebellion or in their.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

In your hundreds.

[Natalie Jean]

Hundreds. Yeah, I feel like they're in the 30s of hundreds. Yeah.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

Angels, Right? Right. Yeah. I mean, also, there's not a lot of free time, I think, when you're running a liberation front. So you gotta just find the time when you can for love.

[Natalie Jean]

Yeah, yeah. Just fine. Just get inside a tent somewhere. Let it go.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

Essentially, Shahar has a twin sister named Sandriel.

[Natalie Jean]

That's my name.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

And that's who Jackie is today. And Sandriel was not about that rebel life.

[Natalie Jean]

No. I'm a good angel, which means I'm a bad angel.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

Right. It just depends on who's telling the history. Who runs the history books?

[Natalie Jean]

Girls.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

Girls.

[Natalie Jean]

Who runs the history books? Girls. They don't actually. They don't whatsoever.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

They don't. But. But depending on if Shahar or Sandriel was telling the story, they would have very different views of who the good one was.

[Natalie Jean]

You're right.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

So. But having a twin who you're, like mortal enemies with is pretty rough, man.

[Natalie Jean]

That's gotta be bad to the bone. You gotta be so angry.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

But Hunt and Shahar fell in love, and they decided they wanted to try to free the angels. Sandriel was like, no way. I love being captured, and I love power.

[Natalie Jean]

I love power.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

So Hunt and Shahar had a group of rebels called the 18th Legion, and they tried and unfortunately failed to overthrow the angels hundreds of years before this book takes place. And Sandriel, the bad one.

[Natalie Jean]

I'm bad.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

Murdered her twin Shahar. Hunt's love. And took Hunt as captive for really no reason other than to torture and abuse him for amusement, basically to punish her twin sister, who she already killed.

[Natalie Jean]

You want to say to me, hunt.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

You look like the girl I kissed before.

[Natalie Jean]

It's gotta be hard to do.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

I don't understand what to do.

[Natalie Jean]

Gonna be really difficult with my feelings. Except I don't understand your feelings, and I will never try to understand them, because I'm a bad angel.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

Yeah. You'll never learn. So this is obviously an extremely traumatic, horrific fate for Hunt to have for a long, long time.

[Natalie Jean]

I think Bryce and Hunt have both kind of gone through something.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

Wow. I've never thought about it.

[Natalie Jean]

Yeah, I never thought about.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

Put that together.

[Natalie Jean]

Yeah.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

So for a long time, he was under the thumb of Sandriel, who was just kind of tormenting him. But after many, many years, she got bored torturing him and began throwing him into fighting pits. And then when she saw how well he could. Could fight, she eventually trained him up into her own army, most likely because he has that very unique lightning power. Lightning power. Lightning power.

[Natalie Jean]

Maybe you could say thank you, Sandriel.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

For teaching, for training.

[Natalie Jean]

Yeah. For teaching me to be the best umbra mortis you could be.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

You're right. I'm going to rise up, and I'm going to be the bigger person. Thank you.

[Natalie Jean]

Well, we've got a lot more books to read.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

Yep. So, over the centuries, Sandriel decided she'd rather have some money for him. She got kind of bored with him, and the Crescent City government made an offer to her to purchase Hunt, and so he was sold off to Micah, which is where he is now. We don't know a lot about Micah yet, but at first glance, he seems at least a lot better than Sandriel, who was, like, literally cutting off body parts and torturing team, putting people in torture chambers and, like, beating Hunt to almost to death every day.

[Natalie Jean]

Oops.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

So that's happening.

[Natalie Jean]

I have to explain and show that I am strong somehow, you know? What, am I just going to use my words? What, am I going to write a memoir?

[Jackie Zabrowski]

Oh, I don't know. Maybe start doing crossword puzzles, find a hobby.

[Natalie Jean]

Oh, my God. Can you imagine how good, if we had forever, how good we would get at crossword puzzles? Or do you think that the crossword puzzles would just continue to get more and more difficult?

[Jackie Zabrowski]

I think if a lot of people, like the collective all started to become immortal, the crossword puzzles have just become really difficult.

[Natalie Jean]

Wow. Something we could look forward to in immortality.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

I can't wait for that. And also, so we know, at least from Micah, that he has offered this vague path to freedom, which Sandriel was never going to offer. But Micah says, listen, I know you did wrong, and you are. You have to pay for your. Your sins of trying to kill a bunch of archangels, but each kill from the rebellion, we're going to count as one kill for you. So that's to say, not just the people you've killed, Hunt, but all of the kills that happened in your rebellion, we're going to count each one of those kills, and then you're gonna do one for one for me, Micah. And every time you do that, we check a body off the list, and then one day, you will have fulfilled your debt.

[Natalie Jean]

And it's so bad because you, like, you think like, well, I mean, it's better than what Sandriel was giving him, which is true, but it's not like Hunt had much of a choice. You know, I feel like it's one of those. It's like, well, at least this is good. But it's like, I feel like if he had a choice, he'd like, I Don't know if I trust this. Why are you. Why are you doing this? But he didn't have much of a choice.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

You go, like, okay, I guess, like, what else am I going to do?

[Natalie Jean]

Slave. Yeah.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

A death for a death.

[Natalie Jean]

Micah had said when you fulfilled the debt, Athelar.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

We'll discuss removing the tattoo on your brow. Unfortunately, that means he has to kill 2,217 people.

[Natalie Jean]

Yikes. Yikes.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

But it's the closest thing he has to hope. And hope. I wouldn't say hope. That's a strong word. His actions pull him apart inside. But there's at least something.

[Natalie Jean]

There is an end. I feel that, like, I was talking about this a lot when it came to the astronauts that are stuck up in space right now, and I was reading into about. Really? As long as there is an end date. Your brain can understand and comprehend and deal with a lot when you, you know there is an end. When it is unending, when it is just the abyss.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

Yeah, it really.

[Natalie Jean]

I mean, I know that this is like. Like a generic way of saying, but it's like it fucks with your brain, man. And. And like, quickly, apparently. So just having that, even though it's thousands of people, he's like, all right. But there's an end. Okay.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

Yeah. And so he continues forth on this path. But he doesn't revel in killing. He despises it. But he also kind of despises himself. So it's fitting. He escapes the common room and finds himself contemplating life while he looks into the bathroom mirror.

[Natalie Jean]

In the harsh bathroom first lights, his light brown skin was pallid under the black band of thorns across his brow. The tattoo he'd learned to live with. But he shrank from the look in his dark eyes, glazed, empty, like staring into hell. Orion. His mother had named him Hunter. He doubted she would have done so, would have so lovingly called him Hunt instead, if she'd known what he'd become.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

Oh, Hunt, it's not your fault.

[Natalie Jean]

It's not your fault, babe. You were just trying to do what was good for you and the angels. You try to help everybody. It's not your fault.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

But he does hate who he has become. And he drags himself into the shower, where he proceeds with what we will learn is a ritual of his. After he makes his kills, he turns the water to near boiling and then stands in it in the pain of it. The scalding, a sort of pen penance and offering. And that's where we're gonna leave it today.

[Natalie Jean]

I wanna fix him I wanna be there for him.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

Sandriel.

[Natalie Jean]

Oh, no.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

She's secretly in love with Hunt.

[Natalie Jean]

I'm jar. I'm alive. Hunt. Come on, baby.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

Baby, look.

[Natalie Jean]

It's me. I'm not the bad twin. I'm the good twin. And you can kiss me. And don't scald yourself. Baby, I love you. We're not in love with Hunt yet, Jackie. And you need to keep that on the back burner.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

Yeah. Don't. What if he's a badman? I don't know.

[Natalie Jean]

No, we do know. We know this show is made possible by listeners like you thanks to our ad sponsors. You can support our shows by supporting them for more shows like the one you just listened to. Go to lastpodcastnetwork.com.