LPN Deep Dives: HOFAS / Episode 7: Tunnel Talk Learning Walk

Summary

LPN Deep Dives: Crescent City

Episode 7: Tunnel Talk Learning Walk
Release Date: July 7, 2026
Hosts: Natalie Jean & Jackie Zebrowski

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Episode Overview

This episode dives into chapter 12 of Sarah J. Maas’s “Crescent City / House of Flame and Shadow,” focusing on "Tunnel Talk"—a harrowing and intimate journey as Bryce, Nesta, and Azriel navigate endless tunnels, both literal and emotional. Natalie and Jackie break down character dynamics, discuss cross-world mythologies, and enthusiastically analyze the layers of trauma, humor, and sexual tension in Maas’ universe. The hosts’ trademark banter is in full force, providing levity alongside deep analysis.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

Sword and "Sword" Humor: Setting the Tone

• The episode opens with a flurry of playful phallic jokes about swords, setting a light and irreverent mood (00:34–02:12).
  • “If you have a sword and it’s called Truth Teller, are you not gonna make a bunch of dick jokes?” (Unidentified Female Host, 01:54)
• “Tunnel” becomes a double entendre throughout, with jokes riffing on sexual tension, fantasy tropes, and the oddities of Sarah J. Maas weapon names.

Shadow Daddies: Why We Love (and Judge) Broody Heroes

• The hosts debate the appeal of Azriel and “shadow daddies” (03:09–07:31), comparing Azriel’s introversion and mystery to the more forward, charismatic Rhysand.

  • Jackie: “I just need to know. We need to know more about him.” (06:27)
  • “He lacks the confidence of Rhys, which is also, I feel, part of what makes Rhys so hot.” (Unidentified Female Host, 07:10)

• Discussion on fandom divisions—Team As Lane (Azriel + Elain) vs. other ships, with the hosts expressing lukewarm feelings about Azriel’s bonus chapter (06:49–06:59).

Deliverance and Buffets: Metaphors Run Amok

• The river-raft tunnel scene is likened to the movie Deliverance (11:10–11:23), with the hosts detailing the discomfort and strangeness of endless fantasy tunnels.
• Jokes escalate comparing the Asteri’s creation of Midgard to setting up a Golden Corral or Sizzler buffet for cosmic consumption (20:53–21:35).

Tunnel Talk / Learning Walk – The Core Scene

(18:59–24:05)

• The segment’s namesake: as Bryce, Nesta, and Azriel walk through tunnels, conversation turns to worldbuilding and exchanging “how things work” on each planet.

  • The "Tunnel Talk Learning Walk" becomes an extended info exchange, with hosts noting it's organic and revealing rather than an "info dump."

• Comparison of magic systems—veneer vs. High Fae, Illyrians’ differences from humans, and cultural cross-talk.

• Jackie: “So this is where we get...reminders. We get some learnings about one another in this time and they exchange info about each other's worlds.” (19:14)

The Midden Guard Worms, Grossness & Evolution

• Discussion on the possible origin of tunnels (23:37–24:53): did giant worms build them (gross)? Are they just wormholes, or more like sewers/caves?
• Natalie covers herself in "make" (makeup meant to look like dirt), furthering the immersive theme; jokes about method acting and cosplay run throughout.

Survival in the Tunnels: Peril, Injury & Props

• The grim reality of the tunnels sets in. Bryce injures her hands and knees, and the group confronts both magical threats and everyday discomforts (27:24–33:13).
• Comedic bits: butter knife vs. "truth teller," using kitchenware as prop swords (29:00–29:22).

Scars, Secrets, and Parental Trauma

• Azriel’s scars prompt a conversation about trauma, healing, and the universality of "daddy issues" (33:14–37:29).
• Parallels drawn between Bryce’s and Nesta’s fraught family histories, linking character growth to shared pain.
  • Jackie: “It seems like maybe everybody's got a little bit of parent drama. Yeah, that's how you end up in a worm cave, I guess.” (36:45)
• Nesta and Bryce bond over loss and unresolved pain.

Cross-Book Lore Drops: Daglin, Swords & Prophecies

• Nesta reveals (40:48–41:13) her sword’s name, Ataraxia ("inner peace"), and hints at having slain a possibly immortal enemy, paralleling Bryce’s own magical blade.
• Theory corner: Are the Daglin the same as the Asteri? Hosts enjoy connecting Maas’ mythologies.
• Sword Prophecy: The connection between Bryce’s Star Sword and Azriel’s Truth Teller is explored, with jokes about their “relationship” (48:00–49:05).
  • “The swords want to kiss.” (Unidentified Female Speaker, 46:50)
  • The prophecy: “When knife and sword are reunited, so shall our people be.” (49:22)

Art History & the Power of Joy

• Bryce’s art history skills come in handy as she reads tunnel murals (51:04–56:29).
  • The core discovery: “There was once joy in this world.”
  • “If there’s no joy, there’s nothing to come back to.” (Jackie, 56:41–57:09)
• The episode ends on a poignant note: Even in darkness, focusing on the evidence of past joy gives characters (and readers) something to fight for.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “If you have a sword and it's called Truth Teller, are you not gonna make a bunch of dick jokes out of it?”
  — Unidentified Female Host (01:54)

• “They had done their river raft, Deliverance style ride down the river...following the banjos.” — Jackie (11:47)

• “I'm not gonna throw [Azriel] out of bed or anything.”
  — Jackie (06:20)

• On trauma and scars in fantasy heroes:
  “You don't get it. You've never been where I've been in my shoes. No, he doesn't say anything. He just walks away.”
  — Jackie (36:03–36:12)

• “Ataraxia...is inner peace.”
  — Jackie (41:33–41:41)

• On the prophecy linking two worlds:
  “When knife and sword are reunited, so shall our people be.”
  — Unidentified Female Speaker (49:22)

• On joy in a dark world:
  “It means that there was once joy in this world.”
  — Natalie reading Bryce’s line (56:09)

• “If there’s no joy, there’s nothing to come back to.”
  — Jackie (56:41)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• Sword/Dick Jokes & Tunnel Humor: 00:34–02:12
• Shadow Daddy Discussion & SJM Ships: 03:09–07:31
• Tunnel Survival/Dungeon Details: 13:03–18:54
• Tunnel Talk Learning Walk (Lore Exchange): 18:59–24:05
• Buffet Metaphors and Worldbuilding: 20:53–22:26
• Midden Guard Worms Banter: 23:37–24:53
• Injuries & Realism/Jokes with Props: 29:00–30:07
• Scars, Trauma, Family Drama: 33:14–37:29
• Daglin, Ataraxia Reveal, Sword Prophecy: 40:48–49:22
• Art History, Tunnel Murals & Finding Joy: 51:04–56:29
• Episode Wrap-up/Next Chapters: 57:24–end

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Episode Tone & Takeaways

• The hosts blend critical analysis and goofball humor, making this deep-dive both insightful for book fans and accessible for newcomers.
• Episode Core Message: Even in perilous, confusing darkness, connection and joy are what keep us moving forward—whether in fantasy worlds, tunnels, or real life.

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Next Reading:
Listeners are encouraged to read up to Chapter 14 for the next episode’s discussion.

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Transcript

[Natalie Jean]

Welcome to Crescent City with your hosts, Natalie Jean and Jackie Zabrowski.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

Excuse me, sir. Oh, wow. You go through a lot of a range of feelings,

[Unidentified Female Host]

Man. If you imagine if every time a penis got hard, it sounded like a guinea pig.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

You're a stone.

[Unidentified Male Speaker]

Oh.

[Unidentified Female Speaker]

Am I not doing it right?

[Jackie Zabrowski]

I think not.

[Unidentified Female Speaker]

Oh, God. I have to talk to my husband and I say I'm sorry. I'm not making it squeak. Boy. Man, that's the one you marry. You make it. You put a ring on it.

[Unidentified Female Host]

I'll tell you what. No, I'm just using, for those that are not watching, the filmed version of this. Very silly of you. Definitely get the over to YouTube.com@romantasy. Deep dives.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

I can't wait till these are on the Criterion.

[Unidentified Female Host]

Yes.

[Unidentified Female Speaker]

Oh, what do I do?

[Unidentified Female Host]

It's so hard. My sword.

[Unidentified Female Speaker]

So hard in the tunnel. What do I do? Do I rub it? Make it better? Do I really make it better?

[Unidentified Female Host]

It's a sword.

[Unidentified Female Speaker]

Azrael, if you're not gonna help in the tunnel, get out of the tunnel.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

He's not helping at all. You think he'd be used to having a sword after hundreds of years, but he's still just like. It's like a.

[Unidentified Female Host]

I just feel like if you have a sword and it's called Truth Teller, are you not gonna make a bunch of dick jokes out of it?

[Unidentified Female Speaker]

Like, I mean, he's telling the truth.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

Can't hide it. Can't hide it.

[Unidentified Female Speaker]

Yeah. You can't.

[Unidentified Male Speaker]

No.

[Unidentified Female Speaker]

It's too big. Nah, it's too big, dad.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

Pointy. Yeah, I love when they're pointy.

[Unidentified Female Host]

Depends on what you're into, you know? Or you're going after one of those, like, a duelist brigade of swords, because

[Jackie Zabrowski]

then it's soft at the tip.

[Unidentified Female Speaker]

Duelists.

They're not banjos.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

You.

[Unidentified Female Host]

Oh, getcha.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

What are you talking about?

[Unidentified Female Speaker]

There's. There's like an Olympic sport. Fencing. That's the word. Yeah.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

They're not banjos.

[Unidentified Female Speaker]

That's not banjos. They're not dueling banjos, but I bet sometimes they wish they were.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

I don't know what's happening.

[Unidentified Female Host]

I'm sorry. I'm just a shadow daddy girl in the tunnel trying to help some.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

Okay, I. I'm getting them all confused. See, now I'm reading the. I'm with Zaden Shadow Daddy dealing with

[Unidentified Female Host]

a Baz G. Shadow Daddy right now.

[Unidentified Female Speaker]

How are we. I mean, sorry, but I mean. Quick, quick update. How are we feeling about Zaden?

[Jackie Zabrowski]

I'm feeling. What do you think? I'M I'm feeling right. I'm feeling it now.

[Unidentified Female Host]

I. I feel like when I first started reading fourth Wing I really was

[Unidentified Female Speaker]

like I'm not love him. I won't.

[Unidentified Female Host]

I can't.

[Unidentified Female Speaker]

Okay.

[Unidentified Female Host]

I think there was something about the like him calling her violence that I

[Unidentified Female Speaker]

was like okay, emo boy.

[Unidentified Female Host]

I felt it was a very eye rolly. And then eventually I was just like I am violence incont.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

You know, I mean it's a little sexy.

[Unidentified Female Host]

Come on, Shaw. Yeah, he's bad.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

Yeah, yeah, he's maybe a little bad. And maybe he's a little bit moody and dark cuz he's got traumas. Yes, he does understand his trauma.

[Unidentified Female Speaker]

But she has traumas too.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

She does. She's got floppy knees.

[Unidentified Female Speaker]

Yeah. That is it. It's really difficult to ride a dragon when you're. And if you just like try to get up to get on the. And you just keep falling down cuz

[Unidentified Female Host]

your knees are too floppy. Spoiler alert for that's the whole second book floppy. Yeah. She needs a knee replacement. Honestly, it's like following like what my,

[Unidentified Female Speaker]

my mother went through to get her knees replaced. It was.

[Unidentified Female Host]

It was a lot. It's a lot of advocation. It's a lot of knowing what you need. But those floppy knees will not keep the violence from that won't keep something else from you.

[Unidentified Female Speaker]

Swing, swing, swing. No, he doesn't have a sword. He's just with his shadows.

Yes.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

Scott's blades.

[Unidentified Female Host]

Yeah, he's got blades if you're on

[Jackie Zabrowski]

a fighting on dragons.

[Unidentified Female Host]

But honey, they ain't no truth Toa.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

They're not.

[Unidentified Female Host]

No, no, no, no, no.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

We're not sexualizing this because we're with Azriel and the tunnel girls in chapter 12. And that's where we last left off sexualizing them. But that's not what's happening. We're not growing up. Grow up everybody.

[Unidentified Female Host]

Yeah, we're not grow sexualizing Azrael in the tunnel. But now Natalie, you were always a reason more than an Asriel. And as a shadow lover. Coming from a shadow lover, what was it that drew you more to reason? To Asriel.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

I am always attract. Well first type A obviously. I'm married to your brother. I'm a type A.

[Unidentified Female Speaker]

Yes.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

A little bit like dry humor, but also like arrogant. Like sort of like impishly arrogance.

[Unidentified Female Host]

Yes.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

But then very vulnerable at the same time.

[Unidentified Female Host]

Emotional.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

Yes, emotional. Very forward with his. His sexual thoughts that are not. Not in like an oppressive way but like very like aggressive.

[Unidentified Female Host]

Like I want you of it is. It is the expression. And I think that is completely I as someone that you're like. But they're both shadow daddies. But Asriel, we haven't seen from him yet. We've seen.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

We're gonna see soon.

[Unidentified Female Host]

We're gonna see soon. But I've seen, like, We've seen the desire from the wings because we know that he has, like, the love of others, but, like, waiting in the shadows and wishing.

[Unidentified Female Speaker]

Because also that makes me. That does make me love in Azrael.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

I mean, I'm not gonna throw him out of bed or anything.

[Unidentified Female Speaker]

Oh, no, no, no.

[Unidentified Female Host]

You bring that truth teller you the truth.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

No, I think he's very. I'm very attracted to Azrael, don't get me wrong. But I just need to know. We need to know more about him.

[Unidentified Female Host]

I have a feeling once we find out more Slip sliding away.

[Unidentified Male Speaker]

Yes.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

And I. We're not. We're not in AAR land right now. But I will say. I will say I am not team. Wait, how do we say it?

[Unidentified Female Host]

As Lane.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

As Lane or whatever. I forget what. They're a couple. I'm not team them. And also the. The bonus chapter we got about him. Not my favorite.

[Unidentified Female Host]

Yes.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

And I think that was intentionally done to sort of. If you haven't read the bonus chapter, he's very needy in it and, like, possessive in a way that I don't care for.

[Unidentified Female Host]

And I think it's because he lacks the confidence of Rhys, which is also, I feel, part of what makes Rhys so hot.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

Yes, for sure. And so we'll see. I think that that was a teaser in the sense that we're not going to get that form of Azrael in

[Unidentified Female Host]

the book until he finds the right one. And is it Gwen? Yes.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

Is it yes? Answer.

[Unidentified Female Speaker]

Yes.

[Unidentified Female Host]

The answer is yes. And I can't wait to find their love. And probably in the next book. But again, I'm sorry. I just. I needed to. Because it is. We're talking shadow daddies here.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

We are.

[Unidentified Female Host]

And our shot. Like one of our very sexy shadow daddies. And it's definitely also the sense of humor. I think that's why you're a reason I'm a Cassian. Like, it's definitely. They have more the sense of humor that Azrael doesn't really have. But I also have fallen for these quiet, strong types before.

[Unidentified Female Speaker]

Yeah, for sure.

[Unidentified Female Host]

Because I'm like. I can get them to emotionally communicate with me.

[Unidentified Female Speaker]

I know I can.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

And then occasionally you'll get like, a smirk.

[Unidentified Female Speaker]

Like.

And I'M like, that's enough. That's all I need. Smirk at me one more time, baby, I'll marry him.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

Yep. So that's where we are with Azriel. And he is helping. Is he gonna help? We'll see. In the tunnel with the tunnel gals. And for once, we get one Chapter one scene, guys.

[Unidentified Male Speaker]

Whoa.

[Unidentified Female Host]

Maybe the only time in this.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

Maybe I forget. I have to keep track of that. I don't remember. Very, very few have one. One scene going on.

[Unidentified Female Host]

Asriel is probably gonna ask you a couple of questions because I believe. Natalie, you did tell me that to get into character, you covered yourself in poop.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

Yes, but it's not supposed to be poop on my costume. It's representing dirt.

[Unidentified Female Speaker]

Yeah.

[Unidentified Female Host]

So I wanted everyone to know that Natalie's really leaning into. I think I always say the word versil Matude wrong. I think it's vermison, dude. It's about making it real. And Natalie here, she's not skimping. And the whole place smells like here or the tunnel.

[Unidentified Male Speaker]

Both.

[Unidentified Female Speaker]

Oh, thank you for bringing us there.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

It's not poop.

[Unidentified Female Host]

No, it's not. She didn't.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

And it's not banjo.

[Unidentified Female Host]

And then spread all over. And it's not dueling banjos, either. There's no Deliverance happening over here.

[Unidentified Female Speaker]

I hope not, Jakes.

[Unidentified Female Host]

Men.

[Unidentified Female Speaker]

Because we're squeaking like a piggy, but we're not oinking like a piggy. All right. Talking about it. Talk about kitty Biggie. Talk about a guinea. But the other.

[Unidentified Female Host]

But Deliverance was different. You know, I did see that for the first time not that long ago. And you always hear about that scene.

[Unidentified Female Speaker]

Watching it is very different, very upsetting.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

I've never actually seen Deliverance. I only know the song.

[Unidentified Female Host]

I also. And I only knew the, like, what happens. And then I watched it.

[Unidentified Female Speaker]

I was like, oh, wow.

[Unidentified Female Host]

It is. If you like that kind of thing.

[Unidentified Female Speaker]

It is very well done.

[Unidentified Female Host]

It's very upsetting.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

Yeah. It is always done as a joke. But that's like a. Isn't that like a violent R scene?

[Unidentified Female Speaker]

Oh, yeah. And very upsetting.

[Unidentified Female Host]

And like, even just like what you hear.

[Unidentified Female Speaker]

And I'm thinking about it right now.

[Unidentified Female Host]

And you know what? I don't want to be thinking about it.

[Unidentified Female Speaker]

Anyway, we're moving on.

[Unidentified Female Host]

I like. I legitimately. I've seen so many scary movies. And watching Deliverance, like, a couple of years ago, I had nightmares for day. Like, I just.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

What is even the rest of the movie about?

[Unidentified Female Speaker]

It's about them on, like, a river

[Unidentified Female Host]

Rafting trip, like that's what they get lost and they're, I mean they're getting hunted kind of. Because people that what has always scared me about these kind of things, you know that these kind of places where they're like, you get in at the top of the river and we'll drive your car down and meet you at the bottom.

[Unidentified Female Speaker]

It was one of those. And yeah, I, I, I think so.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

Oh, it's my people.

[Unidentified Female Host]

Yes. And it's, it really.

[Unidentified Male Speaker]

Wow.

[Unidentified Female Host]

Never trust is what we learned.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

I don't.

[Unidentified Male Speaker]

Good.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

Yeah. Especially going into a. The forest.

[Natalie Jean]

Come on.

[Unidentified Female Speaker]

No, no.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

It's gonna happen in there.

[Unidentified Female Host]

No, no, no. Unless I'm meeting a Baba Yaga and

[Unidentified Female Speaker]

the Baba Yaga says, hey, would you

[Unidentified Female Host]

like to also be a Baba Yaga?

[Unidentified Female Speaker]

That's the, that's the dream.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

Yeah, sure. I will become a witch of the woods. Absolutely.

[Unidentified Female Speaker]

Right.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

Oh yeah.

[Unidentified Female Speaker]

I'll hog Azusa any day.

[Unidentified Female Host]

But we're in the tunnel.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

We're not in the forest. We're in the tunnel. I become a tunnel witch too. Probably depends on the tunnel, I guess,

[Unidentified Female Host]

I guess how long you're trapped in the tunnel. Cuz right now it does kind of

[Jackie Zabrowski]

feel like they have been walking for

[Unidentified Female Speaker]

days, for days in this tunnel and they don't know.

[Unidentified Female Host]

And then Azriel shows up, which I imagine to be like, could have helped us out earlier.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

Yeah. So that's where we last left is. They had done their river raft, Deliverance style ride down the river.

[Unidentified Female Speaker]

Banjos.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

And they. Yep, following the banjos. And they ended up on this other bank that she is following with her star, Bryce. And so as they kind of get to shore, Nessa's like, hey, if you would have told me, we could have done this without getting soaking wet and freezing cold water. But that's what happens when you hide things.

[Unidentified Female Speaker]

Yep.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

So she didn't know. But yes, Azriel apparently is also here.

[Unidentified Female Speaker]

Ta da.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

Bryce is surprised to say the least. But Asriel just kind of shrugs and says, yeah, I'm here. So what, what are you gonna do?

[Unidentified Female Host]

Sometimes my dick sounds like a little guinea pig.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

Yeah.

[Unidentified Female Speaker]

What are you gonna do about it?

[Jackie Zabrowski]

You should have when you heard the noises, you thought it was little bats or something. It wasn't. It was my, my, my genitals.

[Unidentified Female Host]

I shouldn't be hard down here. But the shadows.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

You can't help what you love.

[Natalie Jean]

Right.

[Unidentified Female Host]

And I feel like when like inside

[Jackie Zabrowski]

he's like penetrating the tunnel, you know?

[Unidentified Female Host]

Exactly. And so he has to like. I feel like if you have A dick as big as truth teller. How do you not think with it?

[Jackie Zabrowski]

So they also reiterate again, hey, we've already kind of established in the past scenes with Nesta that we knew we were going to go on this kind of journey with you. So you shouldn't be surprised by anything that's happening. We brought the food, we brought all this stuff because we expected to be following you for God knows how long. Because we wanted to see what was down the stunnel. Because apparently none of them even knew it existed.

[Unidentified Female Host]

It's kind of nice. I feel like it's one of those things you put off until you really have to.

[Unidentified Female Speaker]

And you're like, well, now, I mean, we're in the tunnel, right?

[Jackie Zabrowski]

Like, you know, like making your doctor's appointments and stuff.

[Unidentified Female Host]

Exactly.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

You're like, well, she already let us down here, so.

[Unidentified Female Speaker]

Yeah.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

So she surmises at this moment, she's now thinking back on everything that's just happened. And she realizes that his shadows were what was chasing her during the cave in. So if you remember when she is, like, trying to, like, get away from Nesta that first time, there's all these, like, dark little things trying to, like, knock her over.

[Unidentified Female Host]

Yeah.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

She's like, that was you, Azrael. There's, you know, no real argument here between the three of them. They all just sort of have to accept this reality where they are, which is another tunnel. Different tunnel same day. Am I right?

[Unidentified Female Speaker]

Oh, yeah, Yeah.

[Unidentified Female Host]

I imagine they all look the same until you start seeing some carvings.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

Yeah. At least in these ones you get some carvings to look at. So it's sort of like you're in a really dark museum.

[Unidentified Female Speaker]

Yeah.

[Unidentified Female Host]

Oh, like an after hours.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

Yeah, like a spooky museum tour.

[Unidentified Male Speaker]

So.

[Unidentified Female Host]

And Ben Stiller's down there.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

Oh, no. Oh, no, please. I can't.

[Unidentified Female Speaker]

Oh, please. And he's like, trying to pitch like a.

[Unidentified Female Host]

Like a sequel to Severance. And you're just like, okay, fine.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

He's like, doing prat falls and. Not right now, Ben.

[Unidentified Female Speaker]

In the tunnel.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

So this tunnel has been covered in the same kind of carvings as the previous tunnel. As though Bryce's Starlight is following the pathway of a specific person or people who have been continuing a sort of long story through these carvings on the walls.

[Unidentified Female Host]

It's like planet Earth. It's like when you're inside the spaceship ball at Epcot, you know, as you,

[Unidentified Female Speaker]

like, learn the story as it goes on. And then eventually you start going into the future.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

I thought you meant planet Earth. Isn't that what that's called. With the. The long History docu series.

[Unidentified Female Speaker]

That's Planet Earth and the other one's Spaceship Earth. Spaceship Earth is ball.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

Cuz Planet Earth. There was one back in the day, the original OG oh my God. We watched them stoned in college every time. Yeah. There's one where they go down in the cave system and it's so scary because they're. They're kind of also nervous.

[Unidentified Female Host]

Like it's.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

They're going to these tiny little holes with these cameras to see bats and stuff.

[Unidentified Female Host]

And it's really sc.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

It makes me want to watch it right now, actually.

[Unidentified Male Speaker]

Yeah.

[Unidentified Female Host]

But it also made me sad because there was one someone pitched to me. There's like an Apple TV thing where they're like. It's like Planet Earth, but there's dinosaurs. And I was like, oh, that sounds really cool. But it is just as if there were like. So they CGI in like where the dinosaurs would be if dinosaurs would be here. And I mean, I'll watch it Stone, but it wasn't. No, Planet Earth.

[Unidentified Female Speaker]

Yeah.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

I mean that's cool and all, but Planet Earth is amazing because it's literally just observing actual animals.

[Unidentified Male Speaker]

Yeah.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

So get these bullshit dinosaurs out of here. I'm just kidding. I'll watch dinosaurs anytime.

[Unidentified Male Speaker]

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[Unidentified Female Speaker]

You got to get in there.

[Unidentified Male Speaker]

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I wrote a little song to remind you. Choice hotels get you more of the experiences you value. The Cambria Hotel's got it all. A rooftop bar. Have a ball. Cocktails up here. Feel just right. Ms. Cambria.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

Amazing. All right.

[Unidentified Male Speaker]

Bring a date, your teen or even your mom. Book [e-mail] See you on the roof.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

They are so they're going down this tunnel. They now know that they can send out Nesta's fire ahead of time for you know, looking for traps and stuff.

[Natalie Jean]

They passed by more carvings all disarmed well ahead of their approach by Nesta's silver flame. These were more peaceful. They showed small children playing time passing with trees blooming then barren then blooming again. Pretty perfect scenes at odds with the conversation at hand.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

So they're not really sure what we're not sure what we're looking at on the walls just now. Nobody does. They at first pass the time walking past these things mostly silently but it's somewhat amicable. There's not like a hostile tension. They're just all trying to get through and see where they're going. And as they walk Bryce realizes you know just like getting observing the room or the the hall that Azrael doesn't have the arched ears of the Fae

[Unidentified Female Host]

round got some boring round ass. Look at how Rand it is and

[Jackie Zabrowski]

guess what time it is. It's tunnel talk learning walk. This is where they begin to exchange information.

[Unidentified Female Host]

Tunnel talk.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

Learning about each other's worlds.

[Unidentified Female Host]

It's a tunnel talk learning walk.

[Unidentified Female Speaker]

Come on everybody.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

So this is where they get to. We get not a. I'm not calling it an information dump but we get some reminders. We get some learnings about one another in this time and they exchange info about each other's worlds. Bryce explains Veneer asks if they have veneer in this world and they don't use that terminology. If you've read Acotar Nesta clarifies to Bryce that in their realm they have different magical people but they're categorized differently. Essentially they're. They're like. They're called High Fae and Fay. It's just another kind of creepy cast.

[Unidentified Female Host]

It's a cast system of course but

[Jackie Zabrowski]

they the the round eared magic folk are known as Illyrians.

[Unidentified Female Speaker]

Yo.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

And so that's their own. This is their own thing that they don't really have a category for otherwise they're still kind of mysterious and they're all warrior beings. They are not human. But they do have human ears for some reason.

[Unidentified Female Host]

But also like humans A lot of

[Natalie Jean]

them very bad to women and don't

[Unidentified Female Host]

worry that sticks around.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

Yeah that never goes. Don't worry about that. And I was worried what if women were treated equally.

[Unidentified Female Speaker]

No.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

So it's similar to Midgard in some Ways, but we don't have knowledge thus far that other creatures were brought to this world the way they were to mid guard by the stare. If you remember, Midgard was essentially created as like a smorgasbord for the hysteria. And they brought all these different creatures from all these different planets to Midgard. As far as we know, this planet has not done that. But they do have other non Fae things here.

[Unidentified Female Host]

Oh, they were like, setting up a Sizzler, weren't they?

[Unidentified Male Speaker]

Oh, yeah.

[Unidentified Female Host]

It was just like, including, like, the froyo, too. I feel like they really. They had, like, dreams of Sizzler, and they're like, we know it couldn't work in the past, but what if it could work in the future?

[Jackie Zabrowski]

I understand we had Ponderosa. That's where.

[Unidentified Female Speaker]

Oh, don't even. Or a Golden Corral. Don't even get me started.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

We didn't. Well, yeah, no, I guess we had those later on when I was a kid. We didn't have them in Pittsburgh, but.

[Unidentified Female Host]

Wait, was Ponderosa the Sizzler of the North?

[Jackie Zabrowski]

At least Pennsylvania was.

[Unidentified Female Host]

Oh, that's fun.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

Ponderosa Steakhouse. And then, of course, Old Country Buffet. Family's regular. I had birthday parties there. We had family reunions at Old Country Buffet.

[Unidentified Female Host]

That's where you go to get the whole family sick.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

Oh, my God, did I love

[Unidentified Female Speaker]

used to be better. All the buffets used to be better.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

Well, that is what the Asteri were setting up. They were setting up a golden Corral. Yep.

[Unidentified Female Host]

And they. They also knew that their little. Their little rolls that could. Would just get them coming back and coming back. We were all in it for the rolls.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

Oh, I. Oh, I'm always in it for the bread.

[Natalie Jean]

Bring it.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

I'm filling up on bread. I don't care what anybody.

[Unidentified Female Speaker]

Yes.

[Unidentified Female Host]

Natalie is introduced. I just love the phrase breads and spreads that Natalie to functions.

[Unidentified Female Speaker]

It's like.

[Unidentified Female Host]

Natalie's like, I'm on breads and spreads. Breads and spreads is such a wonderful thing to bring to a function. Everybody wants it. But you think in a potluck, oh,

[Unidentified Female Speaker]

you got to bring the one thing you can bring. Breads and spreads.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

Yep. I could live off of it, honestly.

[Unidentified Female Host]

Oh, yeah.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

Give me a Mediterranean diet.

[Unidentified Female Speaker]

Oh, yeah.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

So we're not talking about that. We're in a tunnel and they're hungry. Actually, they have a Mediterranean. They have, like, hard cheeses and breads with them. So this is like the. I'd be like, are we on vacation right now?

[Unidentified Female Host]

We're powering up.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

So they're all Walking through, describing their planets to each other. They're freezing as well as their clothes slowly dry from the river rapids. Adventure. Not as, I guess he got to fly over the river, but.

[Unidentified Female Host]

Hell yeah.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

Yeah, you did. I should have soaked myself to be in full character. Just like wetted myself down.

[Unidentified Female Host]

Yeah, we're all very upset, but I again, everyone does know that you covered yourself in your own make, so.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

Right.

[Unidentified Female Host]

We are inspired in other ways.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

You can host me down later.

[Unidentified Female Speaker]

Oh, God. I feel like we should sell that.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

Oh, yeah. I mean, we'll put that behind a paywall. So as is uncomfortable in a different way. Bryce is noticing. He's not admitting it, but she can see his discomfort from holding both his dagger Truth teller and his and the Star Sword so close to one another. So he's holding Star Sword as well, because of course they're not going to give her a weapon.

[Unidentified Female Host]

No.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

Almost as if the two blades are having a reaction off of one another. And Azrael is trying to bear the immense pool of power. They ponder how these tunnels were made. And Azrael has the unsettling theory that it might have been the midden gar worms chomping their way through. And yuck.

[Unidentified Female Host]

I mean, it is disgusting. But did they go back through and like, lay down the stones, which. Oh, maybe they did like the pyramids,

[Unidentified Female Speaker]

you know, as well.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

I don't think there are laid down stones.

[Unidentified Female Speaker]

Oh, they, oh, they didn't, they didn't

[Unidentified Female Host]

go back and pave it. It's just, they're just tunnels.

[Unidentified Female Speaker]

I feel like this is paved.

[Unidentified Female Host]

No, it's not.

[Unidentified Female Speaker]

So I, I, I'm seeing a whole different thing. Like, in my head, this is more sewers.

[Unidentified Female Host]

You know what I mean? That like. No, the midden guard words like contracted these tunnels out.

[Unidentified Female Speaker]

Like, I make them.

[Unidentified Female Host]

You make them more usable, user friendly for people.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

I think for Midgard worms, it's. The slimier the bottom is, the easier for them.

[Unidentified Female Speaker]

Oh, no.

[Unidentified Female Host]

So would make sense. So covering yourself in your own make would be similar to. I mean, that is the make of a Midden guard worm.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

I don't know if you remember how a certain character beats the midden guard worm in Nakatar. Whoa.

[Unidentified Female Host]

What does she do to death?

[Jackie Zabrowski]

No, she comes herself.

[Unidentified Female Host]

Yeah, yeah. She covers herself in them in the poopy mud.

[Unidentified Female Speaker]

She does.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

So jokes on you.

[Unidentified Female Speaker]

Yeah, yeah, it certainly would. I would never.

[Unidentified Female Host]

I wouldn't be able to take down

[Unidentified Female Speaker]

a Midden guard worm. I'm gonna say it.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

I think you could do it.

[Unidentified Female Host]

You think so? Thanks.

[Natalie Jean]

Yeah.

[Unidentified Female Host]

Yep. Now get back in the tunnel.

[Unidentified Female Speaker]

Where are we?

[Jackie Zabrowski]

Okay.

[Unidentified Female Speaker]

And the miniguard merge, made the pyramids and come at me. All right.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

That would be kind of fun to watch. So basically, they're walking through giant wormholes. Azrael thinks that maybe they travel on those rivers too. You know, they keep crossing over these river. Like, I don't know if it's the same rivers winding around or if they're going through a bunch of different rivers, but they keep crossing over them. Thankfully, Bryce's star just keeps leading them forward. They don't have to go down any more, like, rapids.

[Unidentified Female Host]

But then Asriel, who makes the bridges. There are bridges.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

I think that bridge was just the remainder of what had not collapsed.

[Unidentified Female Host]

Okay.

[Unidentified Male Speaker]

Okay.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

I mean, who knows? Because there are humans that have come here because of the carvings.

[Unidentified Female Speaker]

Carvings.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

So maybe they put magic on it for it to be a Brit, who knows?

[Unidentified Male Speaker]

Or.

[Unidentified Female Host]

Or they find out that the midden guard worms also paint almost as well as Feyre does.

[Unidentified Female Speaker]

Now they want to make the midden guard worms like their new.

[Unidentified Female Host]

Like, it's like, almost like the Renaissance of Prythian, you know?

[Jackie Zabrowski]

Wow. Bring them out from the shadows.

[Unidentified Female Host]

What them teeth do.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

A people would have to really look inside themselves to not be disgusted by them. And they'd go, I'm not an animal. And they'd go, yes, you are.

[Unidentified Female Speaker]

Yeah.

[Unidentified Female Host]

And then there would be a whole. Like, there'd be multiple government agencies out there trying to protect them and trying to show that they're able to.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

Yeah. Yep.

[Unidentified Female Host]

Thank you for talking this out with me.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

You're welcome. So this one they're now crossing because they're crossing another river. As they're talking about this, as Asriel is explaining these theories, and he saying that they should stay alert because he's pointing out bones glimmering in the shallow parts of this river they're passing. So at this moment, as they're. They're. They're having this talk, they're going across, like, what would be like, a stream almost, with just, like, they can go hop from rock to rock on this thing. And then Bryce is also noticing they're skittering about in the water. These slimy lizard, like, things are, like, in there. And so that's not great. Can you just imagine, like, there's so many ways that you could die.

[Unidentified Female Host]

Yeah.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

Just. You just. You don't. You have to just keep going.

[Unidentified Female Host]

And, you know, you can't see all the ways that you can die also, because it's also like, there's parts with booby trap there's parts with different. Like, it's like you.

[Unidentified Female Speaker]

You don't know.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

You can't see all the bugs.

[Unidentified Female Host]

Maybe that's for the best, I guess.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

But then if it falls in your hair.

[Unidentified Female Host]

I just remember the only way that I used to ever be able to go camping was to be as drunk as humanly possible from morning to night, just so that I could deal with it. And it's why I haven't been camping since.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

Yeah, I haven't. Last time I camped, I slept in the car instead of the tent because I was like, they're gonna crawl on me. They're gonna crawl on me.

[Unidentified Female Host]

You know, it's surprise. Natalie and I are indoor cats.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

What? So basically, as they're crossing as is, like, hey, there's bones. It seems like something is eating something down here. We need to kind of be on our. Our guard for that. Bryce is startled enough by the idea of this that she loses her footing and crashes down to her hands and knees in the water. As moves to help her up, and she feels this strange push of the blades coming towards each other. It's almost like a push and pull at the same time. Because as this person who is supposed to be holding the star sword, when he comes towards her, she can feel like that that's happening as well, but

[Unidentified Female Speaker]

she just hears all of clang, clang, clang.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

So the other one you got.

[Unidentified Female Speaker]

Oh, you're holding. Are you holding the little. Yeah, I do have both. I do have both. Yeah. Come at me. Oh, yo, you want to put me in a tunnel? I'll spread you. Oh, I'll stab you, but then I'll spread you, and then I'll stab you. Because for those not watching at home, I've got a butter knife, and then I've also got truth teller.

[Unidentified Female Host]

So you don't.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

Sometimes a. A blade looks like nothing, but it's everything.

[Unidentified Female Host]

Yes, that's the kind of one this is.

[Unidentified Female Speaker]

And don't you forget, looks like a butter knife, but, oh, it will sound like death. I'm so intimidating.

[Unidentified Female Host]

I could be intimidating just because I would be so creepy that if someone

[Unidentified Female Speaker]

tried to intimidate in that way, I'd be like, you think that this is working, right?

[Jackie Zabrowski]

If somebody was swinging a butter knife at me, I would be scared of them.

[Unidentified Female Speaker]

Yes. I'll use soft butter.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

Let me. Let me spread you on a potato, girl.

[Unidentified Female Speaker]

Breads and spreads.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

So she now, Bryce has fallen in the water. She's covered in mud, and she's got tight. She's ripped her knees open. She's ripped her palms open, falling. And now she sees that they're like leaking blood and.

[Unidentified Female Host]

Great.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

Another thing to add on to this journey. So she is trying to wipe it off her hands. Her hands off on her like her pants and her shirt and stuff. And then she's like. And she kind of just like wipes it along the walls, trying to get all the crap off of her.

[Unidentified Female Speaker]

Ugh.

[Natalie Jean]

She realized too late that she'd smudged the blood and dirt over a carving of two serene loot playing Fae females banjos. With an apologetic look to them and their long dead carver Bryce continued on and on and on.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

Oh my gosh. They're walking.

[Unidentified Female Host]

Oh, they're walking. They are walking. But also, did they predict Deliverance?

[Unidentified Female Speaker]

Wow.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

Wow.

[Unidentified Female Host]

That's what she just. That's what she just. And she was like, I can't even handle this movie. I can't. I take it off the wall.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

So is that. Wait, so you're saying this is the future or she predicted it as in this is the past.

[Unidentified Female Host]

That's the past. And so it was predicted for the like for Deliverance to be in the future.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

So right now we're the future.

[Unidentified Female Host]

Yeah.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

Got it. Because we don't know yet. We keep. We keep changing our minds. They continue on for a ways and then they take a rest. Who knows? Whether it's day or night, they are only in perpetual darkness. But you know, eventually you just go to sleep because you're sleepy. Yeah, but none of them fully go to sleep. Of course. You got to keep your head on a swivel down here. Nothing's safe. No one's safe.

[Unidentified Female Host]

Not even your breads?

[Jackie Zabrowski]

Not even the breads. But she does eat their food. So I mean, you gotta just kind of. You gotta pay dm.

[Unidentified Female Speaker]

Yeah.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

You know, so after they have a small meal, they continue forward. But Azrael is perturbed by something. This next quote unquote day. Bryce's hands haven't healed from the riverfall.

[Unidentified Female Speaker]

Oh, no.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

But her knees have, which is weird.

[Unidentified Female Host]

Floppy knees.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

No, wrong one.

[Unidentified Female Host]

Wrong one.

[Unidentified Female Speaker]

Yep.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

She's got the strength of a dance.

[Unidentified Female Speaker]

Oh, okay.

[Unidentified Female Host]

It's a danceless knees.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

Dance's knees. But this is.

[Unidentified Female Speaker]

How are your knees?

[Jackie Zabrowski]

They're pretty good.

[Unidentified Female Speaker]

They're fine.

[Unidentified Male Speaker]

Yeah.

[Unidentified Female Speaker]

Okay.

[Unidentified Female Host]

I don't know why I thought a dancer's knees would be bad. You know a dancer's feets are get bad.

[Unidentified Female Speaker]

Yeah.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

I mean they can. Anybody's knees can get bad.

[Unidentified Female Speaker]

Ugh.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

You gotta strengthen the muscles around them.

[Unidentified Female Host]

You're right.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

But are you Wiggling your finger at me.

[Natalie Jean]

Yeah.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

Okay, so. Okay, so this is weird because if it was, you know, for example, a dulling thing in the water, wouldn't both of them had stopped healing. But her knees haven't healed. So what's going on there? Just her hands keep bleeding and that seems a little troubling. Not bleeding in a sense. Like she's gonna bleed out just like they're not.

[Unidentified Female Host]

They're not healing.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

They're healing like a human.

[Unidentified Female Speaker]

Right.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

One of our dumb hands would be doing. He asked to see closer up, like inspector Palms, and questions her about her normal healing time. Because, you know, they don't really know that much about her. And as he examines her palms, she studies the deep scars on Azrael's lower arms. It makes her think of Ruhn. And she reveals in that moment, she feels like an. A sense of connection and a sense of like, maybe sympathy to Azrael. And so she reveals that she has a brother who also has scars that didn't heal. Ones that he received from the Autumn King, whom she calls, quote, the male who fathered me. This is outstanding. As Asriel's are. Because Fae don't usually get scars unless there's some very powerful magic at play.

[Unidentified Female Host]

I'm a sad, sad boy in a long, long tunnel.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

He is. And he's a sad boy in the tunnel, out of the tunnel. Doesn't matter. If he was in the sunlight, he'd just be as sad and ackies. Is that a horrible thing to say?

[Unidentified Female Speaker]

Oh, no.

[Unidentified Female Host]

About babies, please.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

But Fabian babies also incorporates Crescent City people. True.

[Unidentified Female Speaker]

Okay, so. Oh, so you're referring.

[Unidentified Female Host]

Only ackees.

[Unidentified Female Speaker]

Okay.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

They know about Azrael's scars. So if you've listened or if you've

[Unidentified Female Host]

read the books, it's just like the Joker. And he does make that joke and everyone doesn't understand.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

No, he's not like the Joker. That's not attractive.

[Unidentified Female Host]

Yeah, these guys breads and spreads using

[Unidentified Female Speaker]

the butter knife to be like, I

[Unidentified Female Host]

can do the Joker joke.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

No, he's not the Joker. That's the least sexy thing somebody could do.

[Unidentified Female Host]

Maybe that's why you're not as into him as you are into re. Like, maybe it's because he keeps doing the Joker shtick and he's not very funny.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

You do not. You're giving him a bad rep right now. I have more faith in Azriel, but we'll see. Maybe that's who he is.

[Unidentified Female Speaker]

We don't know quite yet.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

What's the thing they always say? Why so serious. So seriously.

[Unidentified Female Speaker]

So Illyrians are always saying that.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

Oh my God. Can't handle it. I mean, the entire battalion of jokers.

[Unidentified Female Speaker]

I feel like they would be all like. I feel like they would be the

[Unidentified Female Host]

kind of people like the Edge Lords that are really.

[Unidentified Female Speaker]

Yeah, they're all joker twos.

[Unidentified Male Speaker]

Woof.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

Well, I'm not attracted to him anymore. That's. But no. So she tells. She reveals this thing, the secret about herself. Essentially moody and mysterious. Asriel says, you don't understand my scars.

[Unidentified Female Host]

No, you don't.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

You don't get it.

[Unidentified Female Speaker]

No.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

You've never been where I've been in my shoes. No, he doesn't say anything. He just walks away.

[Unidentified Female Host]

Nobody's so moody. He goes fix him.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

He doesn't want to reveal much about himself, most likely, but we know where his scars came from before, if you're an Aki. So. However, Nesta comes to Bryce's side after Azrael walks away. And as they begin walking again and tells her she's sorry for her brother's suffering. It seems like maybe everybody's got a little bit of parent drama. Yeah, that's how you end up in a worm cave, I guess.

[Unidentified Female Host]

Or a comedian.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

Or a comedian. Two choices. Tunnel lurker. Having. Being in front of a microphone, trying desperately to get people to clap and laugh at you.

[Unidentified Female Host]

To assimilate into human society.

[Unidentified Female Speaker]

Be like, I am human.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

But are we?

[Unidentified Female Speaker]

No.

[Natalie Jean]

The words steadied Bryce focused her.

[Unidentified Female Speaker]

I'll make sure my sire pays for it one day.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

Ness is like, good.

[Unidentified Female Host]

Yeah. And because she's all like, I did that too. And they're like high fiving like, Daddy bravas. Daddy brothers. Yes. Catch.

[Natalie Jean]

Yes.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

But she didn't. She didn't. Different Daddy problems.

[Unidentified Female Speaker]

Very different.

Very different.

Especially where Nesta is. And if you're an Aki, that's a whole other hoy.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

Yeah. So she. They have this moment. They. Bryce and Nesta are very similar in many ways. And I do feel like they could potentially future books, who knows, be like, friendly.

[Unidentified Female Host]

I think that's why they.

[Unidentified Female Speaker]

I think this is part of this crossing out.

[Unidentified Female Host]

Like, I think that SJM knew that,

[Unidentified Female Speaker]

like, obviously they're all gonna get along or they're really not.

[Unidentified Female Host]

I mean, maybe. Let's see if, you know, if anybody else gets sprinkled into the world.

[Unidentified Female Speaker]

And we'll see how she fares.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

Cut to a little later. And they're resting again, leaning against the carved and ornate walls that continue to appear before them as they proceed forward. Then they info poor. We're not going to call it info dump. I think that it's done not kind of organically. They would kind of be passing time in this way.

[Unidentified Female Speaker]

They have.

[Unidentified Female Host]

It's silent and I do feel like even before when you brought up like they were walking silently for a while. But I'm like, you have so much to talk about.

[Unidentified Female Speaker]

There's so many like you have to explain.

[Unidentified Female Host]

You could explain your whole worlds to each other.

[Unidentified Female Speaker]

Like really, man, get me down there.

[Unidentified Male Speaker]

Oh my.

[Unidentified Female Speaker]

I just feel like I wouldn't shut up.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

You're supposed to be keeping secrets. I don't know if this would be your. The. The best place for you.

[Unidentified Female Host]

No, honestly, it. In any of the. Any place I have to keep secrets. I. I don't think that's anybody's going to me for that.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

So they. They have had these silent legs because they're trying to keep things close to

[Unidentified Female Host]

the cuff and also pay attention and be able to listen.

[Unidentified Female Speaker]

I feel like too and.

[Unidentified Female Host]

And being aware of their surroundings, their

[Jackie Zabrowski]

eyes around, you know, always, always looking, always afraid, always on edge. But then you know, a woman.

[Unidentified Female Speaker]

Yeah.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

And. But there's gonna be. They're. They're down there for days. So now they're resting and Bryce wants to know more about the Daglin, which is something that they have brought up when she was still in the interrogation room. And she believes that they are potentially the same as the Asteri. But it is what the lore of this planet is. Is describing whether they are some kind of nebulous space oddity, these things. Like because they say that they're stars, but also they could be some species from some other planet. What if there's millions? We don't know. We don't know. But while the Daglin have become more of a fable on this planet, Nesta reveals that she has slayed something that felt like it could be something similar to a Daglin, probably not the same since they have not been seen on this planet in over 10,000 years, but maybe somehow connected this thing that she had a fight with Enslaved. She mentions the creature's name is Acotar Reference Lanthis. You may or may not know the story of her battle, but while she won't say whether she killed the being or not, Bryce guesses it and asks if she killed it with the sword strapped to her back. Nesta simply responds.

[Unidentified Female Speaker]

Its name is Ataraxia.

[Unidentified Female Host]

Okay, like I'm asking you about this

[Unidentified Female Speaker]

so like you don't have the answer.

[Unidentified Female Host]

Just really it is like look at in this tunnel sometimes you gotta answer in riddles. There's so much tunnel, you know, so much tunnel. We don't need any kind of defensiveness at this point.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

Well, you're gonna get it.

[Unidentified Female Host]

I know.

[Natalie Jean]

Because it's Nesta and Bryce.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

And so in essence, Nesta has admitted that there was a creature, maybe something similar that she somehow got into a battle with and slayed it. This thing that felt like you couldn't kill. And it seems to have happened with the sword she's carrying. Which Ataraxia is. Badass.

[Unidentified Female Speaker]

Badass name. It's a badass name.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

Bryce recognizes the word as old Fay language. And it is the words inter. Inner peace.

[Unidentified Female Speaker]

That's funny.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

It's. It's ironic. It's some sort of things. Nesta tells her that Lanthis laughed at the name. But guess what happened?

[Unidentified Female Host]

He dead now.

[Unidentified Male Speaker]

Dead.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

He laughing no more.

[Unidentified Female Speaker]

Nah, I don't think so.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

Nesta is curious about Bryce's eight point star. The scar on her chest that's glowing and leading them along.

[Unidentified Female Host]

Thank you, Glow.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

And asks her questions that Bryce doesn't even have the answers to. Like, how is there starlight in her? I know how it differs from what the Asteri are. And who claims. You know, because they say that they're stars. They are stars from space and essentially like these godlike creatures. And Nesta wants to know if the star in Bryce's chest is the same material.

[Natalie Jean]

Wow. They're so similar to Chris Pratt.

[Unidentified Female Host]

I've never realized that. They think they're a star. They think they're above everybody. Like, I just feel like they have all these secrets that are probably steeped in some sort of religion and.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

Ruin Jurassic Park.

[Unidentified Female Host]

Ruin Jurassic Park. Thank you. Speaking of dinosaurs and ruined dinosaurs and I. I do wonder if Chris Pratt

[Natalie Jean]

might be an Asteri.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

I mean, it would clock, right? Yeah.

[Unidentified Female Host]

Especially with like the Hallow app. Like I feel like that's a very like selling.

[Unidentified Female Speaker]

Right.

[Unidentified Female Host]

Bible verses that he's like. I feel like he's like, like sucking the.

[Unidentified Male Speaker]

The.

The.

[Unidentified Female Speaker]

Like the starlight out of your prayers.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

I feel like feeling superior. God, I think he might be in hysteria.

[Unidentified Female Host]

I. I'm really glad we figured this out. And this is what our prop.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

That's why man, we need to create a list. Like we need to put like a. A lineup of the. A starry on our planet.

[Unidentified Male Speaker]

Yeah.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

Chris Pratt's one of them.

[Unidentified Female Speaker]

You know, Chris Pratt is one of them.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

And I don't think he's rigelous though.

[Unidentified Female Host]

No, he's not. That he's not at the top of the pop, but he's definitely getting some power up through that of his. Oh, yeah, he is.

[Unidentified Female Speaker]

He's got one of those chairs. You know it.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

Oh, all right. We're going to create a full lineup, I think.

[Unidentified Female Speaker]

Great.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

All right. So. So, yeah. But Bryce doesn't know. And she. She does kind of. It does worry her. Like. Like, am I this thing that they are, or do I have a part of them inside of me now? But she doesn't really think so. And as she thinks about these questions, she tells them that while the Aseri claim that they have stars inside of them, they use this, quote, light to cause destruction. And it's really unclear whether or not they are telling the truth because they lie freely. And so to say that they are stars, that could just be complete. She doesn't really know.

[Unidentified Female Host]

Right.

[Unidentified Female Speaker]

Wait.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

Then they start checking each other's equipment. Not sexually.

[Unidentified Female Speaker]

Yeah, it works.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

They're not checking each other's equipment that way.

[Unidentified Female Host]

Okay, fine.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

No, they're talking about their weapons. Both Nesta and Bryce's swords have been deemed able to kill the unkillable.

[Unidentified Female Speaker]

Cool.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

As Nesta just said, Ataraxia killed this creature. That didn't. That was, like, immortal. And we know that Bryce's sword kills the reapers, and that's pretty badass. But apparently Azrael's does not. Which he reveals here. We. We spoiled it. But this is where he reveals that the blade's name is Truth Teller. Bryce is like, does it find truth? And he's like, in a manner speaking. Which is horrifying.

[Unidentified Female Speaker]

Yeah.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

Because he's like, I torture people.

[Unidentified Female Speaker]

I know. He's so scary. And it's such a big sword to torture.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

It's scary, too, when the. That kind of person is very quiet and, like, stoic.

[Unidentified Female Host]

I know, but it's also so sexy.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

Unfortunately, that's toxic. But it also is true in our books.

[Unidentified Female Host]

No, no, I don't want this irl. But like, I. Also in the book, you.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

Can you look through the lens of. He's only doing this to, like, the most evil of evil.

[Unidentified Female Host]

Yeah. He has to do these things to,

[Jackie Zabrowski]

like, save everybody and think about what he went through. Yeah. If you've gone through enough, you should be allowed to torture people. That's just the rules that.

[Unidentified Female Host]

I think that. That's how I think. That's what they say to people once they're released from prison. Like, it's like, if you already did your time, then keep doing the crime at.

[Unidentified Female Speaker]

Yeah.

[Unidentified Female Host]

Yeah.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

So his Truth Teller, it has powers Obviously. But some of the powers, I guess, are just torturing people.

[Unidentified Female Host]

Yeah, he's just really good. And honestly, it's nice. Can we celebrate his skill? All right. It's not just the sword. He's bringing himself to it.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

He had to practice.

[Unidentified Female Host]

Yeah, it took work. How do you think I got these guys? But it's him practicing to torture. Oh, my God.

[Unidentified Female Speaker]

That's dark.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

That's not what happened if you didn't read Agadar. So Bryce decides to just put this out here. She knows Azrael. Listen. We can feel the swords cling and clanging next to each other.

[Unidentified Female Host]

They want to kiss.

[Unidentified Female Speaker]

The swords want to kiss.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

You're trying to act like nothing's bothering you, but I can feel all of the. Either kiss or I'm not sure what

[Unidentified Female Speaker]

they're trying to hit or fight.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

Yeah, he doesn't answer. Whenever she's, like, trying to get him to a minute. But Nesta rolls her eyes and tells Bryce that he definitely does feel it. He is never fidgety like this.

[Unidentified Female Speaker]

This.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

And so it's fun to have Asriel kind of be disarmed by Nesta repeatedly, where he's trying to remain this, like, ethereal, stoic creature. And she just keeps going, oh, my God, he's so insufferable.

[Unidentified Female Speaker]

Oh, my God, this guy.

[Unidentified Female Host]

Which also, though it makes you. It does make you like Nesta more. And I. I do feel I like utilizing this in the book because it would make Bryce feel more comfortable. Like, I do know that, like, her acting more like a human, because Nesta was a human for a very long time. That I feel like. And even though either well, in the past or, well, in the future, she, you know, I like that it's still, like, girls can still be together. And I like that.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

And also, dressing down maybe a little bit uppity, males just being like, shut up.

[Unidentified Female Host]

Yes, yes.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

So she basically reveals that, yes, Azriel is very clearly affected by whatever's happening to these blades. They all acknowledge that they seem to be almost perfectly opposite. Like a yin and yang. Much like this.

[Unidentified Female Host]

Like a butter knife in a large sword. Yes.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

So Star Sword is the light. Truth Teller is the darkness. Yep.

[Unidentified Female Speaker]

Red spread light.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

No, no.

[Unidentified Female Speaker]

Guinea pig.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

No, wait. Oh, so this is Truth Teller.

[Unidentified Female Speaker]

This is Truth Teller.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

Oh, that's Star Source.

[Unidentified Male Speaker]

This is the star.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

Okay, great.

[Unidentified Female Speaker]

Perfect.

[Unidentified Female Host]

Yeah. This is the one that makes the guinea pig sounds.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

Okay.

[Unidentified Female Host]

And. Oh, you're right.

[Unidentified Male Speaker]

You're right.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

You already established that as true.

[Unidentified Female Speaker]

Thank you.

[Unidentified Female Host]

I have to stay in character, Natalie.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

I know I know you do. Bryce confirms with them her sword. Hey, let's talk, guys. So my sword is said to be crafted from meteorite in the form of iridium. So must Truthy. Which is what Azrael calls the blade when they're alone together.

[Unidentified Female Host]

And his penis.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

He calls his penis and the blade Truthy.

[Unidentified Female Speaker]

That's true.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

Bryce repeats what she said earlier. She thinks the two of them are what the prophecy speaks of. And on her planet, which we've heard before, when knife and sword are reunited,

[Unidentified Female Speaker]

so shall our people be.

[Unidentified Female Host]

But why are we in these tunnels?

[Unidentified Female Speaker]

They are. They just got reunited. Come on.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

But now they're in a tunnel and like, that can't. They can't really help people from there, but yes. So essentially, when she tells them that her sword was crafted from this meteorite, they connect that theirs is as well, even if they don't necessarily say that's what ours is like. They're like, it's clear that that's what is going on with this sword. So they've both been made from the same meteorite, which is cool. And they. She tells them this prophecy. This seems to unsettle them, however, which would be a big shock being like. Because she's already revealed to them when she fell into their. Into their reality that the parasites on her planet want to come to invade this planet.

[Unidentified Female Speaker]

Yeah.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

And so they don't really know what to make of this information. But when she says that there's this prophecy that these things can reunited, will reunite the people, they're like, oh, I don't know how I feel. I don't know if I want our people to be reunited. So Bryce changes the subject, telling them about the carvings on the walls and that as they've walked, they've seemed to her to be telling one singular story.

[Natalie Jean]

Nesta peered up at the images. The three dancing fay in the foreground. The stars overhead, the scattered islands. The mountain island with the castle atop its highest peak. And again, always the reminder of that suffering underworld beneath it. Memento mori et innavalen ego.

[Unidentified Female Speaker]

What sort of narrative?

[Jackie Zabrowski]

She asks Bryce.

[Unidentified Female Speaker]

That's cool.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

Yeah. Bryce doesn't know what this narrative is, but she tells them she wishes she could walk through for weeks to try to decipher it. She explains that even though she doesn't speak the language on the walls, she got a bachelor's degree.

[Unidentified Female Speaker]

Whoa.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

In art assessment.

[Unidentified Female Host]

Yeah. And she worked in a. In a Crazy Things museum.

[Unidentified Female Speaker]

So she knows stuff. Okay.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

She's has a background in art dealing.

[Unidentified Female Speaker]

I do. I would love it. Of Like I'm trying to fight like

[Unidentified Female Host]

the Phantom of the Odds Opera. And I'm like, excuse me. I have a BA in theater. So, like, I know how to go about this. If y' all excuse me.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

Don't mansplain to me about how to sing Mr. Wall.

[Unidentified Female Host]

Creature, right? I don't think so. Just because you got a half a face don't mean you gotta have a brain. I don't think it does.

[Unidentified Female Speaker]

Maybe do keep the hand at the

[Jackie Zabrowski]

level of your eye. So she's basically saying, I can kind of see.

[Unidentified Female Speaker]

I'm an art history major.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

I studied art history in college. And I can tell that this is one long story. Okay. Nesta, then when she. Bryce kind of gives this information, Nesta turns it around on her. Okay, then you should probably know what the symbols on your back mean. Right? Which is not something that Bryce wants to talk about. Bryce explains the origins of the tattoo. Because remember when they were in the interrogation room, she took the pill. It like explained. Exploded the magic out of their back. And they could see this writing.

[Unidentified Female Speaker]

So they know something's back there.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

And they also, if you recall, Amron said that it was. It was the same writing they found in the Book of Breathings, which is an Acatar reference AES for AES out there. And now Bryce is explaining to them about this tattoo. The way that she got it, which was her and her best friend got really drunk that her friend Danica picked it out of it. Well, she told Bryce she picked it out of a tattoo book. That might not be true. And that it's supposed to mean, through love all is possible.

[Unidentified Female Host]

Although I will throw it out there. I bet, like, Nesta is just like, dude, bet.

[Unidentified Female Speaker]

I definitely would have done this.

[Unidentified Female Host]

I just went through like a whole crazy.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

Oh, yeah, she could have done that.

[Unidentified Female Speaker]

I bet you she's like, yo, you should see the tattoos I almost could

[Jackie Zabrowski]

have got when she was crashing out.

[Unidentified Female Speaker]

Yeah.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

Yeah.

[Natalie Jean]

Nesta clicked her tongue, but not with disdain. Something like understanding.

[Unidentified Female Speaker]

Cause yeah, I've been there. I'm surprised I don't have more tattoos that I didn't know about.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

Yeah, she. I'm surprised she didn't get any. Any tattoos.

[Unidentified Female Speaker]

Being like.

Or at least that we know of right now.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

Yeah. Being like all fair hoes.

[Unidentified Female Host]

Yeah. Or like, Cassian sucks.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

Yeah.

[Unidentified Female Speaker]

Cassie.

[Unidentified Female Host]

Yeah, I don't.

[Unidentified Female Speaker]

And now every time he takes her from behind, she's got a tramp stamp

[Unidentified Female Host]

that just says Cassian sucks.

[Unidentified Female Speaker]

And he's like, like, babe, did you

[Unidentified Female Host]

have to get it back here? Like, you Put it somewhere where I wouldn't have seen it.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

She's like, no. I knew one day you would mount

[Unidentified Female Host]

me and mount me. And the headboards would be clacking.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

What a sad thing to find on your lover.

[Unidentified Female Speaker]

On a drum. On a tramp stamp. Yes.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

So she knows now that it doesn't say, through love, all is possible. But of course, she doesn't want to reveal anything about how there is a powerful artifact ground into her skin.

[Unidentified Female Host]

Yeah.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

So she tries to change the subject, but they won't let up. They want to know how Danica knew this language, because Danica obviously didn't get this from a tattoo book. This was something she very specifically put on Bryce for a reason. And she. They want to know why Bryce won't ask her friend what this language is.

[Unidentified Female Speaker]

Because she's dead.

[Natalie Jean]

The words came out flatter than Bryce had intended. But something cracked in her to say them.

[Unidentified Female Host]

Even if she'd lived with that reality

[Natalie Jean]

every day for more than two years now.

[Unidentified Female Speaker]

The hysteria had her assassinated, then had it framed as a demonic murder. She was getting close to discovering some major truth about the Asteri and our world. So they had her guilt.

Whoa, dude.

[Unidentified Female Host]

Now we're getting to the meat of now. This is how a friendship really forms. You start talking about drunken nights, getting tattoos. You start talking about your friend getting ripped to shreds.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

Dead friends. Yep. She tells them she doesn't know what the truth is that Danika had found, because obviously that would be very helpful to everyone. But she had been spending all of the time since trying to figure out what it was that Danika knew. Nesta asks Bryce what she thinks the engraving that they are, they happen to be in front of right now.

[Unidentified Female Host]

Means she's like, okay, her art history. How about you break?

[Jackie Zabrowski]

I just.

[Natalie Jean]

So Bryce examined the relief, took in the dancing, the stars, the idyllic islands in the background, and she said softly,

[Unidentified Female Speaker]

it means that there was once joy in this world. World.

[Natalie Jean]

Silence. Then Nesta said, that's it. Bryce kept her eyes on the dancers, the stars, the lush lands. Ignored the darkness beneath. Focused on the good, Always the good.

[Unidentified Female Speaker]

Isn't that all that matters?

Nah. Nah, bitch. Nah. I think other things matter. I think we ought to do other things by gas.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

No. But at the end of the day, it is true.

[Unidentified Female Speaker]

Yes.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

As we're going through this in our own world, in our stupid human world, we all want to be, like, so aware, and we should be aware of everything going on. But if there's no joy, there's nothing to come back to. If we want things to be good in this world, we do have to also live by example sometimes. And so it is very important to not live in utter misery. Because then the worst people win.

[Unidentified Female Speaker]

You're right.

[Unidentified Female Host]

And sometimes when you want to dress up as a character, you gotta make in your hands and spread that make all over you to absolutely show your dedication and joy of being able to do it.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

I got pig shoes.

[Unidentified Female Host]

They not covered in poop.

[Jackie Zabrowski]

They should have. I should have.

[Unidentified Female Host]

I'm upset.

[Unidentified Male Speaker]

Say,

[Unidentified Female Host]

Please read up until chapter 14 for next week.