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- [00:00]
A
Teens share everything that may include the bacteria that can cause meningococcal disease, known as meningitis.
- [00:06]
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Even if your teen's been vaccinated in the past, they could still be missing meningitis vaccinations.
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Ask your teen's doctor or visit meningitis.com today. Sponsored by GSK. Hey guys, you're listening to Mama Knows podcast with your host, Nina Cavaggiola, AKA Balconina. Join in weekly as she walks alongside you to navigate topics around motherhood, mental health, self love and relationships, the good, bad and funny.
- [00:48]
B
I recently asked my audience on Instagram about video games and when it was appropriate to introduce a Nintendo Switch, and I had such a different variety of answers and that got me really curious, like, what is it with video games? Why is it such a hot topic amongst parents and families? Why is there such taboo around it? And quite honestly, like, I don't know much about video games at all. I personally don't play video games. My husband doesn't play video games. But we have video gamers in my direct family and my kids are exposed. So this is an important topic for me. I want to know how to navigate it. And clearly it's a very important topic to many of my listeners because a lot of people wrote in wanting to know all the things about video gaming, which is why I'm talking to Ash today. They are a video gaming educator on social media. They have a website and they speak on all things video games and how to normalize them, how to introduce them, how to just live with them and make them part of your family without that nasty stigma that's out there about video games. I'm so excited for this podcast episode. Let's welcome Ash. Hi Ash. Thank you so much for being here today. I'm so excited to talk about video games. I feel like it falls in that, like, screen time category and parents are scared of it. So. So I think it's important to have this discussion and you are our expert on the topic and I would love to hear a little bit more about you and how you got into that video gaming expert space.
- [02:35]
A
Sure. Well, thanks so much for having me. I'm thrilled to be here. So I'm Ash. My pronouns are they, them. And I kind of live on Instagram at the Gamer Educator. And I kind of got into this not necessarily accidentally, but not very intentionally. I'm a middle school teacher and I for a long time just was someone who cared a lot about thinking about how video games and education can help one another. I grew up As a kid just liking video games and they were just a part of my life. They weren't a big deal. They were just something I did. And so I grew into an adult who saw them that way. And I realized pretty quickly, particularly in education, that that was actually kind of a unique perspective. And I didn't really think it was. But then I surrounded myself with other people who kind of thought differently than me and realized, oh, kind of a unique take. And then when the pandemic was really ongoing, I realized I wasn't going to go to a conference or convention to talk about these ideas anymore, which is what I've been doing for a while. And so I thought, okay, I need to pivot somewhere else. And so I, I pivoted into social media and I was kind of reminded again of, oh, I think this is still a unique take because I found myself confronted with so many caregivers who really were just unsure of what to do or worried. And I empathize with that worry really, really sincerely. And so I thought, okay, I think this is maybe something that I can target. So I try to just kind of devote myself to helping families figure out kind of how to manage video games and screens more broadly in a way that benefits the whole family.
- [04:19]
B
I love that, I love that you took something that is a tough topic. Especially like, I grew up playing video games. I don't remember what age. I think I was like six, seven. I don't know. I was, we played Mario Super Mario, like, and it was no big deal. And I don't, I don't remember it being so taboo anyway, so I feel like now I have my own kids and my following is mostly mom moms of younger kids or school age kids. And we're all like, what? I don't know. There's a lot of like violent games out there. There's a lot of like, bad things about video games. And so I popped up a question box and I was like, let's, let's ask the experts on this. And, and I. On it. I, I can't tell you enough because I feel like as much as I love and practice respectful parenting and like boundary setting and discipline, I feel like this is one of those topics that I'm like, I don't know, like, how do I. How do you navigate this? So one of the biggest questions people are asking is when is the right time to introduce video games, like traditional video gaming, not including iPads and tablets.
- [05:37]
A
Okay. Not including iPads and tablets is a very good distinction to make because a lot of kids first entry into video gaming is definitely tablets. And that can happen, start really young. But in terms of your typical, your traditional console kind of gaming, my answer is whatever age or time, it's going to be a net benefit to everyone in a family. And I understand that that's not necessarily as cut and dry people want they, I know especially in like Instagram, like advice giving space people really want and black and white.
- [06:16]
B
Yeah, exactly like tell me what to do.
- [06:19]
A
Exactly like just tell me what to do. I just don't want to screw it up. And I actually think that that is a pitfall that a lot of kind of screen based advice falls into is that they try to be black and white and the reality is much more gray. So like console gaming, I don't think people always think about how complicated it is. But I think if you haven't played a video game in a long time, if you sat down and tried to play one, you'd suddenly realize like, oh, there's a lot I have to do. At the same time my hand dexterity, I have to be pressing buttons with one thumb and using a joystick with the other and I have to be looking at the screen and not looking at my hands and I have to be controlling a character relative to where they are. So forward always kind of changes orientation. That's really complicated kind of synthesis of information. And so a lot of kids can't really handle that until they're probably more like school age. But younger kids can, you know, play along with a parent or maybe press one button. While a parent's controlling, there's ways to kind of get them involved in ways that are also going to make them feel successful. Because we do want, if we're going to have gaming in our lives, we want it to be a positive. We don't want it to be something that is a struggle. We don't want it to feel like it's something that is more trouble than it's worth. And so we have to kind of set ourselves up for success. But I also tell people, you know, if it's something that hasn't really come up for your family, there's not a, there's not a problem with waiting. Like it's fine to wait and waiting until a time where you feel like, okay, this is something we can introduce in a controlled way, in a thoughtful way and it's going to be something that we can use to kind of help benefit our whole family.
- [08:12]
B
So I, I was going to ask about iPads and tablets, but I'm Going to skip over that, come back to it because you kind of touched on older, younger kids. So what about if a child has an older sibling or friend or cousin that's playing video games and now they are not, in my opinion. I know this is not a black and white thing. My son is four and a half and I feel, I personally feel like that's young, like he doesn't need a video gaming system. However, he now has seen his older cousin play. He wants a video gaming system. He asks for it especially the more he's around it. And specifically he wants the like violent games. And that for me makes me uncomfortable. So how do I limit and explain to my child who's inevitably going to see these video games that like that's not for us right now or you know, how do I navigate that?
- [09:15]
A
So much of the topics that come up around video games really are topics that we as parents and caregivers, we navigate these questions all the time in other avenues, in other parts of our kids lives. And with those things we don't really second guess it. And I think it's because we might have more familiarity with it ourselves. And so we feel a little more confident with that. But really the issue is the same like this particular issue of a kid wanting to play something that might not be appropriate for them or for a family. If we really kind of boil it down to the core issue, the issue is really handling things that aren't appropriate for a family. And so we can kind of take the video games out of it sometimes. And for me that makes it kind of easier to figure out how to navigate. So like a reframe for that might be. Well, how would you handle it if your child wanted to watch a TV show that wasn't appropriate, you know, that their cousins were wanting to watch or see a movie that wasn't going to be appropriate, or read a book or any other kind of media that might not be something that you think is a good fit. I just did some content for this. The other about this the other day about kind of navigating when your kids kind of hearing or involved with something that you think is maybe a little too old for them or not appropriate for them, but really just comes down to the same boundaries you'd set anywhere else. So I think what you said, this isn't something that's right for our family right now is a great line. And so much I think of parenting is being able to say to our kids, my job is to keep you safe and my job is to figure out what's safe for us and best for us. And sometimes certain games, certain shows are not going to be safe for our kids sometimes. And part of taking on video gaming as a family is also taking on the boundaries that come with it. So to circle back to the question you were asking before of when should we introduce it, It's I think less of it as the age of the kid, but also just holistically, where are we as a family? Like, am I at a place where I am okay with saying okay, yes to this and no to this and kind of taking on that work? You know, for some families, violent games are never going to be okay. For some families you could have a 15 year old and violent games won't be okay for other families, that threshold is a lot different. And so it really comes down to kind of figuring out those things for the family and then coming through with the boundary of this, this is something that is not for us right now. Or I hear that you really want this and I'm not saying yes to this. And I guess that you don't like that. And my job is to keep you safe. And this is something I think is safe for us. And I'm not saying it's easy, not an easy thing to do, but it is ultimately kind of the same boundary that we would set with other things.
- [12:09]
B
Yeah. Kind of back to what I asked about like older sibling and, or cousin or something that is playing these games. So in my situation, my kids are at my mom's, I'm not there, I can't control what they're watching and the cousin is watching or playing the video game in the living room, my kids are going to see it. And like I can micromanage what my kids do when I'm not around or how do I deal with that. Like, or, or if someone has an older child and a younger child and the older child is playing video games and the younger child says, well that's not fair, he gets to do this. How come he gets to play this? And I don't, you know, how do you. And I feel like you're gonna say the same thing. Right. But like, how would you word it? Like literally give me word for word, like how would you.
- [13:03]
A
And thank you for reminding me of that situation because I forgot that nuance and that is so hard. And like the first part of like, you know, it's a situation where it's like out of your hands, right? Kid is not home and this is happening. And like you said, like you can obviously choosing to Micromanage it is one option. But you know, like I said the other day, sometimes it's the cost of entry, you know, like sometimes it's the cost of free child care or time that you need spend alone. And sometimes we kind of have to decide, you know, is this something I'm going to take on or not. But I think you can have a similar conversation to your second example of, you know, families with multiple age kids or kids who just have different kinds of content that's appropriate for them. And yeah, it is very similar to an older kid can probably choose what they eat for lunch and a younger kid can't. They can choose what they wear to school, the younger kid can't. But it feels a lot more, I think, intense for kids because it's like right there in front of them and it's this constant entertaining reminder of something that they maybe can't have access to. So if I were talking to the younger kid, I might say something like, I know you really want to play that game and it's not something I'm saying yes to right now. And that doesn't feel good. And I get that my decision's not going to change. I'd probably say things like that that are validating, that are not necessarily changing what my boundary is. And I'd probably, depending on the age of the kid, like I have a six year old, I would probably do a little bit of problem solving of would it help if we did something else? Would it help if you weren't seeing this game? Would you like to play in another room while your brother's playing Call of Duty or whatever they're. Because sometimes, yeah, having it in front of you would be hard. If I am telling myself that I'm not going to eat cheeseburgers and then I sit down and my spouse is eating cheeseburgers for dinner every day. Like, yeah, I'm not going to like that either. And sometimes I might have to like impose a limit that might make it easier for me. So sometimes the problem solving approach I think can help particularly with slightly older like school age kids because it's giving them a sense of agency. So maybe they're getting to choose something that feels special to them that they're getting to do at a time where other sibling is getting to do something that feels a little off limits.
- [15:35]
B
Yeah, sure, sorry. I'm like totally beating this here. So say my 4 year old is he saw his cousin and or a brother saw another sibling or sister playing. I wasn't there. Do I just say to him. Like, when mom's not around, I can't control some of the things that you see or do, but these are not the things that we're going to have in our home. Like, how is that kind of how you would.
- [16:03]
A
Yeah, I mean, I think what you said is wonderful. My. If I were in my language, I would probably say, yeah, when you're not here, you're going to see different things than when you're at our house. And. And that doesn't mean that I'm going to say yes to them at our house. And that might not feel good. And I totally get that. And I might draw comparisons because I know my kid and my kid kind of needs to, like, link things to other things to kind of make sense of them. So I might say, you know, at school, you might play games on the playground that you wouldn't play here. You might say things with your friends that you wouldn't say in the classroom. You might hear. Do you ever hear kids say things on the playground that you think aren't. Aren't good things? Oh, you do? Oh, but do you say them here? No, you don't. Because we know that just because we hear or see something doesn't mean it's a good fit for our family.
- [17:00]
B
I love that. I love that drawing comparison, because I feel like it just puts it in a different perspective and something that they can relate to. I actually just had a podcast episode with somebody talking about special needs, and how do we talk to our kids when they say, oh, my God, why does that boy have such a big nose? Or why does that boy have smaller eyes? You know, like commenting on something that's different. And I. I love how she explains it. She says, but what about something that's the same? So giving them something to think about, like, this is. Give me something that you know is right or, you know is wrong. So I love that. Kind of reminds me of that. So back to tablets and iPads, because that. I feel like that is a whole. Not. We can have a whole episode on that, but I just want to quickly touch on it. Anything can be considered a video game nowadays. My son is four and a half. He'll be five shortly, has a tablet, and he plays this, like, farming crop game. I don't even know. Like, my husband helps him get tractors. It's a good team effort. But to me, that looks like it could be a video game. Right? If you had a controller, you could play it like a video game. Can you touch on that? When do we introduce tablets and iPads. And I feel like your answer is going to be the same. Right, but how do you control, like, what they're doing on those and when would be important to set limits and boundaries?
- [18:31]
A
I think it's important to set limits and boundaries from the beginning. And so part of, you know, when I've been saying introduce them when they're going to be a benefit, the other side of that is introduce them when you are in a place where you're okay to take on that extra responsibility of the boundary setting that comes with it. I always say that, you know, screens should benefit the whole family. And a big part of what I mean when I say that is that screens often function as a tool. You hear that a lot and a lot of advice spaces. Screens are a tool. Use them like a tool. Well, if they're a tool, they need to benefit the whole family. We often focus just on the kid. You know, what's good or bad for the kid, how much is too much time for the kid. And I totally get that. We don't want to screw up our kids. Totally get that. But the screen also has to benefit us. If we're using it as a tool, then that tool needs to be functioning for the adult to get something done right. Whether it's a break, whether it's dinner, a shower, work, email, whatever, that screen is often functioning as a. As filling in a systemic gap, basically. So we want to set ourselves up for success so that however we're using a screen, whatever screen we're using is able to function as that tool. So I think it's much easier to start with boundaries and start with those limits than it is to then try to retroactively put them in place. And anyone who's ever tried to retroactively put in a boundary with anything has probably realized that that's a lot harder than just starting with them to begin with. So starting out with a clear idea of when is this going to fall? In my day, having some predictability with screens is really helpful because then they just become another part of the day. Kids are really used to routine. They know what to expect. They like knowing to expect what to expect. So having screens as part of the routine can kind of just make them just another part of the day. And then they're not this scarce resource. They're not a special feeling thing. And then kids aren't spending all day thinking, am I getting the iPad now? What about now? So having them kind of predictable can help a lot. Having a clear idea of how much time you want them to have during the day or what days can be helpful. There's ways that the technology itself can help you do that. You can put in time limiters on certain apps. Kindle Fires, which are a really popular tablet for young kids. My child has. You can have limits for how much time they're even on and they can turn off. Even consoles have these limits, too. So kind of having those things in place to kind of set you up for success and then also choosing content that you've kind of already vetted, that you've already at least put your eyes on and made sure. I think my kid can do this successfully. I think they'll enjoy it. And it's also something that's appropriate for my family. I have some content about this, but mostly when I'm looking at a new app for my kids, I just open it and I play around with it for a bit. I make sure, like, you know, could my child even figure out what's going on? You know, if there's too much, like, written instruction, my kid's not going to be able to do that. That's not a good fit. Does it seem like something they'd be interested in? And is it portraying things I think are okay? Are there anything about this when I'm initially playing it that bother me? And then if it feels like an okay fit, then I leave it. And then I know, okay, like, the things that are on here are things that they're going to be successful with. And I have a clear idea of how we're going to use it and for how long. And that way I feel like, oh, this is serving itself. My kid is getting this break, I'm getting this break and I'm able to meet some other need.
- [22:12]
B
What I'm hearing you say is, I love that you're saying, use it as a tool and use it guilt free. Because I feel like as moms, we feel guilty when we use tools, quote unquote. Like, we, we feel like. I feel like our society has just trained us to feel we have to constantly playing with our kids, which how many of us, like, actually love sitting down and pretend playing? Probably not that many. I'm not going to lie. So I'm hearing that. I'm also hearing you say that it's extremely important to set boundaries from the beginning and stick with those boundaries. And like someone who's going to just give their kid a tablet and just say, go at it. They can't after a year of doing that, be like, okay, well, now I'm going to set A limit and this and this and that. And they can't expect the child to be like, okay, mom, like, it's going to be harder to go back to setting those boundaries. So being involved, setting boundaries and being active in what your child is doing, Is that what I'm hearing? I. I love your reels. You have one that I just saw where you point at, like, what the boundary is and then how. What you're allowed to do and then what the child's allowed to do. I love it. Like, the child is allowed to have a feeling and that's it. Right? Like, you're the adult. You make the rules.
- [23:36]
A
I love that I draw a lot of comparisons to food because for whatever reason, it's just where my brain goes. And that's like playing on the division of responsibility, like, model of food, of, like, you know, we decide what's served and when. And then our kids decide, you know, how much they're going to eat and which is essentially how they feel about the food. Right. How much they eat of it. And it's the same idea. You know, a lot of the concerns I get on my account are, you know, my kid is mad when it's time to turn it off or they throw a tantrum or they're so upset. And I think, well, yeah, like, this is a fun thing. It's hard to stop fun things. And we navigate those boundaries a lot as parents all the time with young kids with, you know, we leave the playground and our kid doesn't want to leave the playground. Well, we don't ban playgrounds and say we're never coming back here again. You know, we. We validate them. We figure out ways to make the transition easier next time we problem solve because we know that playgrounds are going to be a part of their lives for a while. Well, the reality is screens are also going to be a part of their lives, and we can withhold that. Like, we can say we're going to wait on screens until you absolutely have to have them. Okay, that's totally valid. But they're still going to be part of our lives. You know, they're not. They're not going away. I think that's becoming increasingly true. So finding ways to just recognize, okay, yeah, like, this is. They're having that same feeling they would have for any other fun thing that's going away. We can navigate it in the same way.
- [25:04]
B
I have some technical questions that people really want to know. So what about. I'm going to ask all three, and maybe you can kind of like, answer them all. So the space where you have the video gaming consult, how important is that and what should you consider? What about the time limit in allowing video games? Like, what should parents consider? I know it's really up to. You're going to say it's up to your family's needs. I get that. But like, I want, I want to hear, like, what should we consider? And then what time of day is that player role in when to consider allowing video games? Sorry, that was a lot. But I feel like they're kind of. They kind of go hand in hand.
- [25:47]
A
They do. So where kids play is actually one of the few things where I do give a pretty black and white answer. And that's because there's some pretty good research about this. So playing in shared spaces is really important. And I think there's many reasons for this, but there's some black and white reasons for it. So playing in isolated or private spaces, particularly bedrooms, obviously this is more true for older kids. But playing in bedrooms and isolated spaces is twice associated with, with what's called problematic video gaming, which is like the clinical term for what we would call addiction. And playing in shared or kind of public family spaces, like the living room or whatever it is for your family is kind of counteracts that and is not associated with problematic video gaming. And so if you can have it in a shared space, that is good from a clinical sense, but it's also good because it kind of allows you to keep your ear on what's going on, keep your eyes on what's going on. And it also allows us to kind of casually interact with our kids if we're able to, even when the screen is on. So I'm often making dinner with my kids playing video games, but I have a line of sight, so I can still throw out an occasional like, oh, wow, look, you got first place. Just those ways of making it clear, like, I'm still paying attention. Both in like a I'm still paying attention kind of way, you know, I'm monitoring, but also in a, hey, cool, it's like I'm watching, you know, I care about this thing that you like. So I think that it also helps to keep that line of communication open so that we're able to kind of validate and connect around their interest in terms of amount of time. Right. It was time of day, but amount of time. Okay. Amount of time, yes. It's what works for you. But to be a little more specific, there used to be some really specific recommendations from the AAP around amount of time they've gotten rid of those, because now they just want families to really make a plan around how they use their media and screen time. I do think that's the better choice because previously, when you look at the time recommendations, when you went from age 4 to age 5, suddenly the amount of time they could have doubled. And it's not like some sort of switch flips at age five and suddenly they can handle twice as much screen time. Some kids can and some kids really cannot. So when it comes to the amount of time, what I say is take kind of a problem solving and observational approach with your child, because it might be that they can consistently handle a certain amount of time, but it also might depend on a lot of other factors. You know, some kids can play video games for an hour and put the controller down and they're completely fine. And other kids will watch one episode of Paw Patrol and then they're like dysregulated and jumping off the couch. And so for that family where, you know, the kid is having a really hard time with one episode of Paw Patrol, I would say, okay, is this still a net benefit for you? You know, if your kid watches one episode of Paw Patrol and then you have to spend 45 minutes dealing with a tantrum because they don't want to turn it off, that might not be a positive for you anymore because it's like twice as much time to talk them down. And instead of immediately going to the place of like, oh, it's the show's fault, we can think more about, okay, what can we change? You know, we can kind of become like observational scientists of our kids. You know, can we change when we watch the show? Maybe we can try what show we're watching or what we're playing. Maybe we can try really paying attention to our kids behavior when they're playing or watching. I kind of know my kid's triggers. I can kind of tell when my kid is getting amped up. And if I hear certain things, I will even say, like, hey, I hear you're getting loud. Like, is this helping? You know, like, I hear that you're yelling. Is it helping you to yell? No. Okay, we're going to pause the game and we're going to do jumping jacks for 30 seconds.
- [29:59]
B
Right.
- [29:59]
A
Like, building in those regulation skills.
- [30:01]
B
Sure.
- [30:02]
A
So taking that observational approach is huge because then again, we're problem solving and we're building in their ability to balance screens with other parts of their lives. And then time of day, I don't Notice, much like for my kid, it doesn't seem to make any difference. There is a little bit of research on it that talks about, you know, an hour or so before bed, trying to avoid that in terms of effect on sleep. For my family, it does not seem to make any difference. But again, taking that observational lens of like, oh wow, when we have it right before we eat, then meals are a nightmare. So maybe we swap those. We try it after we eat. Oh, now it's a lot better for everyone. Okay. And then being able to kind of figure that out from there.
- [30:46]
B
Yeah. What about early in the morning? And I've heard, and like I said, I have toddlers, so I don't know about older kids. I've heard a lot of people talk about and I can't really tell you why. No screens before 10am or no screens before noon. Like what is. Do you know any, any reasons why
- [31:04]
A
I have never heard that actually.
- [31:05]
B
Okay.
- [31:06]
A
No, I have not heard that. No, not that I know of. Like, I mean we ease our day, we ease into our day with a show in the morning and it works fine for us. But yeah, no, I'm not aware of any like research based. Sure thing about that.
- [31:26]
B
And then what about the school age child? Probably, I don't know, between 8 and 10, maybe a little bit younger, maybe a little bit older. What if they are. And this is a parent that asked this quote, unquote, addicted. All they want, all they think about is the video game. They keep asking about it. They throw fits when they can't have them. They play for a couple hours at a time or hours at a time and, or this is kind of hello. They have a co parenting situation and one parent allows hours of hours of screens and the other one's like, okay, no, okay. I feel like that's like a really loaded question. So maybe answer the first half and then we'll, if we have time, we'll get to the co parenting one.
- [32:12]
A
Sure. So, you know, I can't, I can't know this particular person's situation or anyone's situation, but we sometimes will say, oh, they're addicted or upset, obsessed because it's all they want to talk about. It's all they draw, it's all they play with, it's all they think about. And if we reframe that to any other activity, would we still call it addiction? You know, if a kid, all they wanted to do was watch soccer and all they want to do is play soccer and read books about soccer and, and that's all they want to talk about. Would we be concerned that they're obsessed and addicted with soccer? Probably not. And that mostly comes down to we probably view those activities as having different validity. But, you know, being preoccupied with something and being interested with something are actually really normal parts of childhood. Kids get into those, like, phases they have that can last for months. Or my kid has been in the four year phase of liking cars, not stopping anytime soon. So kids do get into these phase places. And I wouldn't say that's necessarily bad. There are diagnostic criteria for video game addiction, and we're talking four or more hours of play per day generally. And you know, it's much like other addiction. Choosing games over family interaction, over hygiene, over other parts of life. The other criteria are not in my brain this morning, but they are in the DSM 5. So there is a clinical way of diagnosing that and very few people meet that diagnosis. So most of the time when we talk about addiction, mostly we mean, this is all my kid likes to do. And if you don't want that to be the case, then they're allowed to not like the badger. They're allowed to be upset. They're allowed to whine and complain and throw a tantrum because they'd rather be playing video games. And we don't have to say yes. And we can maybe think about, okay, what is it they love to do? Do they love to play Minecraft and build stuff? Okay, then maybe they would also really like to build and create another parts of life. Maybe we sign them up for, you know, something involving stem or tinkering, or we build Lego together, we draw a creation they've made in Minecraft together. We can still validate their interests outside of the screen. And then navigating it with, you know, inconsistencies with other households, I think that's probably more a consistency with other household issue than it might just be a screen issue. There's lots of things that are going to be inconsistent between different household bedtimes, meals, rules in general. And I can completely empathize with how difficult that would be to have mostly with the kids. Like how difficult it would be to go from one household where it's like, anything goes. I can do whatever I want. I can do this thing I love that I've learned to love. And now I go to this other household where maybe I feel safe in really other ways. But then this thing that I have really learned to love is now something I don't get as much. And that probably would feel really, really Hard. But the only thing that you can control is, you know, your own environment. So similar to what we were talking about earlier with like things that people. Yeah. See or hear in other houses. Right. It's the same kind of thing of. This is, this is the way it is here. And my job is to keep you safe. And if you're ever really concerned, you know, going to, going to a doctor or you know, seeking out, you know, a therapist could really be helpful kind of navigating these things, particularly if someone is really worried about no more addictive type of behavior.
- [36:06]
B
All right, last question. This is a top question amongst my listeners here. They want the answer to games with gun violence. Are they contributing to future violence? And I feel like this is more school age kids. Right. They're playing. Honestly, I know nothing about video games personally except Mario Kart, but yeah. So I don't know what games obviously, but what, what are they doing to our kids? Are they make, are they going to make them violent?
- [36:37]
A
The short answer is no. And I wish I could just leave it there, but I think just hearing a no is not enough because then people are like, but, but they're violent, you know, or I've heard that they will. So to dig into that a little bit, we. I would say the top things people ask me about are video games having like a causal link to violent behavior and also this idea of like desensitization to violence. There have been studies that have tried to show this causal link between violence and video games that did say that they found it. However, those studies have since been shown to have bias that affected the significance of their results. And I've done some deep dives into this. So when we look at the wealth of data that's available, we do not see a link between violent video games and aggressive behavior. And I would invite everyone to kind of zoom out for a minute because we get kind of myopically focused on where we live and the US and we forget that most of the rest of the world plays video games at the same rate as we do. Or more so to put it in kind of a global perspective, the countries that have the highest rates of video game players in the world are South Korea and Japan. And South Korea and Japan's rates of gun violence, like incidents per 100,000 people are 0.08 and 0.06, respectively. The US by comparison, we are like third in video games for 100,000 people. And our rate of gun violence death per 100,000 is 12.21. So not, I mean, it's just really huge, hugely different. And when I first put out this data, the immediate response I got was, well, what video games are they playing? And so then when we look at that, we can see that the percent of gamers who play like shooters, which I think is what most people think of when they think of violence because they think of shooting games. The US Is one of the lowest in terms of the percent of gamers who play shooting games, but we have overwhelmingly the highest rate of gun violence. The countries that have the highest rates of percent of gamers who play shooters are India and Vietnam and Indonesia and South Korea. And they all have gun violence rates of like 0.1 or less per 100,000 people. So if that really were a causal relationship, really did feeling there, it wouldn't just be here, it would be everywhere. And we really don't see that reflected in the data. And what's really interesting too is there have been a lot of studies that have shown that kids who play violent video games report lower levels of aggression when they're done playing, not higher because it's helping them release the feelings they may have. Essentially. We can also see that violent video games do not affect moral judgment. This was a study from 2018, and a separate study from 2018 found that violent video games do not increase behavioral problems, aggression, impulsivity, lack of empathy or mental health struggles. So the data is pretty, pretty clear that there really is not a link there. Now that's not to say that you should allow it. If you don't want to allow it, that's completely fine. I completely understand not wanting to allow access to those games until you really feel like somebody's ready. But it should be from a decision of, is this something, you know, I'm okay with for our family and not necessarily because of fear that it's going to cause something in your kid.
- [40:30]
B
Yeah, and that's so good to know. But I feel like parents are going to say, well, my kid is so dysregulated and so cranky and is throwing things and hitting when I turn off his video game. So that video game made him violent. And obviously, like, people probably know how
- [40:51]
A
I feel about that.
- [40:52]
B
But what would you say to that parent?
- [40:55]
A
I would say it sounds like that that's not a good fit for you anymore. I think we want to blame the game because we want it to be not our fault, not our kids fault. And if we blame the game, then we don't have to deal with like, oh, if we just got rid of the game, then the problem would go away. Maybe, like, maybe that would be true. But again, like I was saying earlier, you know, often kids get really upset when we take many things away or we have to start stop doing many things that are fun. We leave the playground, they get upset. We're not going to never take them to a playground again. And learning to manage those feelings is an incredibly important part of raising kids. Yeah, probably the hardest part of raising kids, but it's really, really hard. And when we kind of, like, if our impulse is to just say, well, then we're not going to have screens, we're not going to have video games, because it would make it so much easier. We don't have to deal with that. Okay. But then what we're essentially doing is we're passing the buck of that responsibility onto our kid down the road.
- [41:57]
B
Yeah.
- [41:57]
A
Like, let's say that we say, okay, there's no video games. We're never having them. Well, what's going to happen when that kid moves into their dorm and their roommate has the PS8 or whatever in the future? And now they are surrounded by no boundaries. They have to decide they have to regulate themselves, and they have access to, like, the latest, greatest thing. We can help prepare them for that. And a lot of that is the same kind of regulation we would do with other things.
- [42:28]
B
Yeah. And the way I see that. Sorry. The way. The way I see that reaction. So I'm very passionate about respectful parenting and boundaries and just, like, proper discipline. Like.
- [42:42]
A
Yeah.
- [42:43]
B
So the way I see that situation, even though I don't have a child that does. Like, my child doesn't do that, but he does when we take his tablet, when it's time to put the tablet away. There are days, because we. We have very strict boundaries around that. There are days he'll hand it to us when the timer goes off. There are days where he starts screaming and crying and kicking. Yeah, he's four and a half. But if he was nine, ten, I would say, hey, I see that you're frustrating. I would see not a kid that is violent now because of what he saw in the video game. I would see a kid that is dysregulated because one, maybe they're overstimulated to. They're mad and they don't know how to cope with that anger. And I think that's what parents miss. They. They want to blame and say, like, I go through this too.
- [43:30]
A
Right.
- [43:31]
B
I'm not perfect. But you want to just have a reason for that behavior and blame it on something instead of Thinking, okay, while he's mad, he just doesn't know how to deal with that anger. And then instead of helping them learn or teaching them how to learn with that anger, you immediately take something away and tell them to stop and go away. Like, stop, you're crying. You're not getting that game anymore. Instead you could say, gosh, you're so mad that you can't have this game right now. How can we let your anger out? I cannot let you hit. I cannot let you. Blah, blah, blah. So that's what I see. I don't, in my eyes when my kid says to me, like, we were kind of talking about this off screen. My almost five year old, he loves Nerf guns. And I know that's like a very taboo thing and we've talked about this, but I can't. Like, I tried so hard to just not be a Nerf gun family, but my, we just are. Okay. So my one and a half year old even plays with them. So anyway, I have my strict boundaries around them as far as, like, how to handle it. But if he says to me, I'm so mad, I'm going to shoot you in the foot. And yeah, that's a threat to him. That's a threat to me. And to me, instead of thinking, oh my God, my kid's going to be a sociopath, he's going to be a serial killer, he's going to kill me if I don't let him play with this. Instead I say, wow, you're so mad at me right now. How can we, you know, so it's easy to think like violence is related to what they're seeing, but really it's just probably they're just mad. They don't know how to handle it.
- [45:07]
A
Yeah. Or their emotion is like bubbled up to, you know, a 100 and they, and, and they don't know what to do with it. And frankly, like, we as adults often get that way too. Like many of us and so much of parenting is, you know, reparenting yourself and figuring out how to deal with those triggers for yourself. And I think, you know, I've personally found in myself, like, oh, wow, when I get super, super mad and I'm seeing red, like, if I don't find a way to calm myself down, what I'm going to end up doing is some really explosive behavior and that's going to look different for everyone. Everyone has something like that and it's not any different for our kids. I think what you said is perfect of really just noticing, like what it is they're feeling and then helping them navigate that and why I think it's so important to do it with screens and to not just evade and say we just won't have screens. I think it's so important because it does bring out this really heightened sense of emotion. And when we validate that and allow them to regulate through that, just like they would if they were upset leaving the playground or upset leaving a friend or having a fight with a friend, is that we are by. I think a byproduct of that is that we're validating their interest in screens or video games. And so when we are just focusing on the feeling and just focusing on the skills that they need, then what they're also hearing from us is, my adult's not just going to blame this on this thing. I like my adult is going to help me through this. And that also shows them, okay, my, my adult does care about what I care about. My adult cares that I like the tablet. They're still going to keep me safe. They're not going to give in, but they're going to help me manage this. And that, you know, I think sets us up for success moving forward and then allows them to take on more of that responsibility for regulating as they get older.
- [47:03]
B
Yeah. And I do want to say to the parents listening, like, if you feel like you've been doing it wrong all along, like it's never too late to change what you're doing, like your kids will mold, they love you no matter what, and we all mess up.
- [47:17]
A
So yes.
- [47:20]
B
Ash, I appreciate you so much and I love this conversation. I love that you are a resource and I hope that after this episode people jump on Instagram and follow along. Can you also share with us where we can find you on social media?
- [47:34]
A
Absolutely. So I mostly am on Instagram @thegamer educator and I have a website that's the Same name, the gamereducator.com My website is mostly like longer form guides to things. So if you are someone who is interested in introducing a tablet or a console, I have some longer form things about how to choose one and some game recommendations for kids. But my page on Instagram, the Gamer Educator, is mostly devoted to all these things, managing all these things and hopefully giving you some guidance as you're navigating screens with your kids.
- [48:10]
B
Yeah. And some cute Chihuahua muffin stuff. All right, Ash, have a good day.
- [48:19]
A
Thank you.
- [48:24]
B
I'm super curious your thoughts on this episode. So make sure you check out my Mama Knows podcast, Instagram page and comment on the episode post because this is a hot one. I think that everyone has opinions on video games and I'm so grateful for Ash for bringing us the facts. And as always, if you enjoyed this episode, make sure you give us a review, a follow on socials and come back next week.