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MickeyJoTheatre
the TONY awards vs the OLIVIER awards | the major differences between the UK and US theatre awards
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- [00:00]
Hayden
Howdy, howdy ho, and welcome to Fantasy Fan Fellas. I'm Hayden, producer of the Fantasy Fangirls podcast and your resident lover of all things Sanderson.
- [00:08]
Stephen
And I'm Stephen, your bookish Internet goofball, but you can call me the Smash Daddy.
- [00:12]
Hayden
And we are currently deep diving Brandon Sanderson's fantasy epic Mistborn. But here's the catch. Steven here has not read Mistborn before.
- [00:21]
Stephen
That's right.
- [00:21]
Unidentified Guest or Advertiser
Hey.
- [00:21]
Stephen
Hey. So each week, you'll get my unfiltered raw reactions to every single chapter.
- [00:26]
Hayden
And along the way, we'll do character deep dives, magic explainers, and Steven will even try to guess what's next. Spoiler alert. He'll be wrong.
- [00:33]
Stephen
Newsflash. I'm never wrong. Episodes come out every Wednesday, and you can find Fantasy Fan fellows wherever you get your podcasts.
- [00:40]
Strawberry Me Advertiser
Let's be completely honest. Are you happy with your job? The fact is, a huge number of people can't say yes to that. Too many of us are stuck in a job we've outgrown or one we never really wanted in the first place. But we stick it out and we give reasons, like, what if the next move is worse? And I've put years into this place, and maybe the most common one. Isn't everyone miserable at work? But there's a difference between reasons for staying and excuses for not leaving. It's time to get unstuck. It's time for Strawberry Me. They match you with a certified career coach who helps you get from where you are to where you want to be, either at your existing job or by helping you find a new one. Your coach helps clarify your goals, creates a plan, and keeps you accountable along the way. Go to Strawberry Me Career and get 50% off your first coaching session. That's Strawberry Me Career. Acast Powers the world's best podcasts.
- [01:40]
Mickey Jo
Here's a show that we recommend.
- [01:44]
Paige Desorbo or Hannah Berner
Hey, guys. Welcome to Giggly Squad, A place where we make fun of everything, but most importantly, ourselves. I'm Paige Desorbo. I'm Hannah Berner. Welcome to the squad. Giggly Squad started on Summerhouse when we were giggling during inappropriate time. But of course, we can't be managed. So we decided to start this podcast to continue giggling. We will make fun of pop culture news. We're watching fashion trends pep talks where we give advice, mental health moments and games. And guests. Listen to Giggly Squad on Acast or wherever you get your podcasts.
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- [02:21]
Mickey Jo
Acast.com so often in the Past when I've needed to explain what the Olivier Awards are, I have told people that they are simply the British equivalent of the Tonys. And perhaps in history, somebody has described the Tony Awards as the American version of the Oliviers, though it would be a surprise. However, if you really take the time to think about it, there are actually many more differences between the two awards than just their geography. And with both awards ceremonies approaching over the next couple of months, I thought it was a good time to explain all of them to you right now. But just before I do, a quick introduction to me for those of you meeting me for the very first time. Oh my God. Hey. Welcome back to my theatre themed YouTube channel. Or hello to those of you listening on podcast platforms. My name is Mickey Jo, and as you may have guessed already, I am obsessed with all things theatre. Was it the Tony Awards baseball cap that gave it away? Or the parade merch pullover? I am a theatre content creator, critic and commentator here on social media. I am based in the uk, but three to four to five times every year, depending on how excited and frugal I'm feeling. I fly across the Atlantic, usually in a plane, and I see as many Broadway shows as possible in the next couple of weeks. I'm looking forward to my big spring trip where I will visit for two weeks and see as much of the new season as possible, the majority of the shows which will be eligible for this year's Tony Awards. But just before I make the trip, I am looking forward to attending the Olivier Awards right here in the uk. And like I said, it would be simple enough to consider the two ceremonies as entirely equivalent, but for a handful of reasons, there aren't. There are huge differences in their logistics in the way that you can actually, actually engage with them. There are big differences in terms of the impact that they have within and beyond the theatre industry. There are also sizable differences in terms of what they actually recognize and the categories that they choose to salute. So for those of you who may not know too much about either, or may know one slightly better than the other, I am going to talk you through the Tony Awards and the Olivier Awards, how they differ and why they differ. Of course, if there is anything pertinent that you feel I haven't mentioned, feel free to share it in the comments section down below. You're all educated people, I'm sure, and if anyone else is attending this year's Olivier Awards, let me. Perhaps I'll see you there. In the meantime, if you want to stay up to date with all things theatre happening on either side of the Atlantic. And if you can't wait to find out what my picks are for this year's Olivier Awards, as well as my predictions of who I think is going to win, make sure you're subscribed here on YouTube with the notifications turned on so you don't miss that video as soon as it drops or following me on your favorite podcast platform. For now, though, this is a conversation I've been waiting years to have. Let's compare the Tonys and the Oliviers. So we're going to begin by talking history and logistics. The Tony Awards, named for Antoinette Perry, who was a founding member of the American Theatre Wing who oversee the Tony Awards, have existed for considerably longer. They were first presented, I believe, in April 1947, meaning the ceremony in 2026 is now in its 79th year. I believe it's one more than whatever it says on the back of my hat, which should say 78 if I'm correct. Was I right? Somebody tell me if I was right. I'll find out in the edit. The Olivier Awards, meanwhile, named for the actor Sir Laurence Olivier, though they weren't initially for the first few years, were first presented in the mid-1970s. It might even have been 1976, making this year the very auspicious 50th anniversary. They probably ought to be making a bigger point of that anyway. My point is, though, Great Britain has existed for longer than the United States of America, and theatre has existed for longer here as well, the Tony Awards are older than the Oliviers, and they also take place traditionally, unless disrupted by a worldwide pandemic, which evidently can happen in different months of the year. The Tony Awards are presented annually in June, usually a Sunday towards the very beginning of the month, with the nominations usually being revealed in the earliest days of May, meaning that eligibility for the season closes towards the end of April. Remind me of that fact later on, we're going to come back to it. The Olivier Awards, meanwhile, have already been presented by that point, because they are usually presented in early to mid April, with nominations being announced at the beginning of March and the season closes closing in mid February. There's a little bit more logistical turnaround time for the Oliviers to get their nominations and votes in than the Tonys, it seems, and for each ceremony, the whereabouts has changed over the years. The Tony Awards have been presented in a variety of different locations. One of their most iconic homes in recent years has come to be Radio City Music hall, though they have previously and recently taken place in many other large venues, the Olivier Awards have similarly been held at various different places, though recently they find their home to be the Royal Albert hall in Victoria. Both of these, it's worth pointing out, very grand, very high capacity performance venues, neither of which are actually eligible within the awards themselves. Neither of them typically host the kind of performance that is even recognized by the Oliviers or the Tonys, strictly speaking. Now, every year, one of the biggest questions about each ceremony is how can we watch them? And for folks trying to watch from the other side of the Atlantic, that can be something of a challenge, especially if you're a British person trying to watch the Tony Awards. The Tony Awards are televised in the us, but they are harder to engage with from outside the us. The Olivier Awards, meanwhile, until very recently, have only been televised later in the evening as part of a highlights package by itv. That is going to change a little bit this year, but there has also been a live stream available online, but not to people living in the uk. It's actually easier to watch the Olivier Awards live online from outside of the United Kingdom for some baffling reason. Well, it's not a baffling reason. The reason is to not step on the toes of the broadcasters. This year, the Olivier Awards are going to be be on BBC rather than itv. The coverage is being described at this time as a prime time highlights package, though I gather it's still going to be a little later in the evening and it won't be going out live. And obviously this inherently changes the impact of the two ceremonies because one is broadcast live nationwide and the other one feels sort of shifted back a little bit in the public consciousness, which is one of the reasons why the impact that they have is slightly different. And we'll have more of a conversation around that in more depth a little, little later on. But for now, just trust me when I tell you the Tony Awards are more impactful on the industry and on ticket sales than the Oliviers. There are other reasons for this, but because of that you tend to see a phenomenon where the Broadway season is very deliberately shaped around the Tony Awards. And the opening night calendar is clearly affected by the power of the Tony Awards and the power of Tony nominations. Producers hope that their show is going to be heavily recognized and that will suddenly give them a huge boost at the box office. And so for that, the prime time for Broadway openings is spring. And shows will tend to begin previews in late February, early March, early April, even with an opening night falling as closely as possible to the end of the Eligibility window, the very end of the season. At the end of April a couple of years ago, there were consecutive opening nights in a particular week in April, one after the other. Sometimes two shows have to open on the same night. Not an ideal situation because they share the finite press coverage, but they have to get in under the wire. Sometimes a theater becomes available at the very last moment and something can just about make it into the season with a late April opening, often with almost no previews. I think Illinois is transferred to the St. James when it suddenly became possible for them to do so with no previews whatsoever and just opened. And obviously, were it not for the Tony Awards, this is not a particularly ideal way to do business because for the news outlets it means all of your big splashy openings are all happening over the period of like six or seven weeks and everyone exhausted by the end of it. It's also not particularly great for them in terms of the months of the year during which attention is turned towards Broadway, but also for the shows themselves. They're all competing for oxygen. And what it ends up meaning is that you have shows struggling through the time between Tony nominations and the Tonys being announced and presented, hoping that they will get to perform on the ceremony, that that primetime broadcast will also sell some tickets to people across the US hoping that they might get a win and going to boost them at the box office. But if they don't, they may close in the weeks following the Tony Awards. Last year we had a slew of new musicals, one after the other after the other after the other, closing in the four or five weeks after the Tonys, just before the real height of the summer and presumably a lot of tourism. It kind of makes no sense that so many Broadway shows will open in March. When a lot of people arrive to New York in July saying, what's the best new show in town? And it turns out be to about five of them just closed. That's crazy. It's the same reason why you see very few openings in the summer. And it's the rare show that will boldly open in the summer. It's often an indication that their chances aren't necessarily going to be affected by the Tonys, or they don't necessarily think that they're going to win any, or it's just an incredibly bold opening and it's so brilliant that they win Tonys regardless. The idea here is that they want to be fresh in the minds of the nominators and not, you know, 10 months in the rear view mirror. But Hamilton is the Exception to the Rule as a show which opened in the summer and obviously was well remembered and was very successful. Meanwhile, that notion has not reached the West End and the Oliviers, because it's completely different here. Don't get me wrong, there is still a cutoff. It usually falls mid February, but it is so entirely disregarded, it is so moot that you will see major productions opening in the immediate days after that cutoff. Last year in February, Richard ii, I think, opened one day after the cutoff, knowingly, and then much ado about nothing at Theatre Royal Drury Lane opened the day after that. It's why they're still eligible this time around and they weren't eligible last year. And it does seem like it would be the easiest thing in the world if British producers actually cared about the Olivier Awards and valued them and considered them to be meaningful in the same way to just ship shift those production dates one or two days earlier to make sure that they get in before the cutoff. But I think it speaks to the fact that, you know, people appreciate and acknowledge the Olivier Awards and they're absolutely going to do social media posts about it and they're going to put it on their posters and they're going to show up and they're going to perform and they're still going to give it an awful lot of thought, but it's not the be all and end all in the same way. So we have shows opening in March, opening in this very window that we're in right now between Olivier nominations and the Oliviers being presented. There are openings throughout the West End all year round and beyond the West End. Another reason why is because the Oliviers actually have the ability to recognize far more shows than the Tonys, which is what we're going to talk about next. But just before we do, you may have become curious over the years about who actually decides who wins the Tonys and the Oliviers. And the answers are quite symmetrical. Though an interesting thing about both is the nominating committee is slightly different to the voters who will then decide who wins from the nominees. Now with the Tony Awards, the nominating committee is made up of, I think, 50 or so individuals from within the industry who have the chance, I think, to be nominators for up to three years. They see all of the Broadway openings throughout the season. They vote by a secret ballot, and then they, along with members of the Broadway League and the American Theatre Wing and I think a couple of other organizations then become the voters of the winners. There's an awful lot of chatter Every year when it comes to the Tonys about the amount of power that regional theater representatives have, there's something called the Spring Road Conference, I believe in April when they will all come to New York and they'll be wined and dined and schmoozed. And the theory is that they have a vested financial interest in the Tony Award winning success of shows that would tour well to their venues. So they are more interested in something that is going to tour first of all, and is going to tour well, becoming a Tony Award winning show that's then going to sell more tickets. Because guess what? The Ton Award winning Best New Musical has come to town. Show up, Minneapolis. It's here. That being said, we do still see wins ongoingly for shows that don't necessarily fit that mold. Meanwhile, the Oliviers are nominated by a group of individuals who can independently apply, essentially, I think regular degular people who every year are given the opportunity to write a sort of a review of a piece of theatre that they saw recently and apply to be a part of the secret Olivier Nominating committee. I applied to do this when I was a teenager and I wasn't selected. And I'm simultaneously completely over it and never forgiving them ever in my life. Now they, I believe, meet periodically and vote on a short list of nominations that are then voted on by members of the Society of London Theatre. And you become a member of the Society of London Theatre by paying to be a member of the Society of London Theatre. And there is far less transparency when it comes to the Olivier Awards and eligibility and voting and how many are they going to be in a category and whether they're going to be leading or supporting and what this show is going to be considered, all of that stuff. There is far less transparency until the nominations are released. But also what I have heard, perhaps somewhat secretly, is that there is the opportunity for the voters to defy the list of nominations presented to them by writing in from a suggested shortlist, an additional candidate. I have heard of a major actor in the last couple of years who got an Olivier nomination, but who wasn't going to be given one by the nominating committee and only got one because they were written in by the voters. I know, how juicy, how scandalous. But we've no more time to discuss that because we need to discuss the different categories awarded by the Oliviers and the Tonys. They are surprisingly.
- [16:29]
Hayden
Howdy, howdy ho and welcome to Fantasy Fan fellas. I'm Hayden, producer of the Fantasy Fangirls podcast and your resident lover of all things Sanderson.
- [16:37]
Stephen
And I'm Stephen, your bookish Internet goofball. But you can call me the Smash Daddy.
- [16:41]
Hayden
And we are currently deep diving Brandon Sanderson's fantasy epic Mistborn. But here's the catch. Stephen here has not read Mistborn before.
- [16:50]
Stephen
That's right.
- [16:51]
Hayden
Hey.
- [16:51]
Stephen
Hey. So each week you'll get my unfiltered raw reactions to every single chapter.
- [16:55]
Hayden
And along the way, we'll do character deep dives, magic explainers, and Steven will even try to guess what's next. Spoiler alert. He'll be wrong.
- [17:02]
Stephen
News flash. I'm never wrong. Episodes come out every Wednesday, and you can find fantasy fan fellows wherever you get your podcasts.
- [17:09]
Strawberry Me Advertiser
Let's be completely honest. Are you happy with your job? The fact is, a huge number of people can't say yes to that. Too many of us are stuck in a job we've outgrown or one we never really wanted in the first place. But we stick it out and we give reasons. Like. Like what if the next move is worse? And I've put years into this place and maybe the most common one. Isn't everyone miserable at work? But there's a difference between reasons for staying and excuses for not leaving. It's time to get unstuck. It's time for Strawberry Me. They match you with a certified career coach who helps you get from where you are to where you want to be, either at your existing job or by helping you find a new one. Your coach helps clarify your goals, creates a plan, and keeps you accountable along the way. Go to Strawberry Me Career and get 50% off your first coaching session. That's Strawberry Me. Career
- [18:05]
Mickey Jo
different. Now it's worth pointing out that each of these awards has evolved over its lifetime, and neither, towards the beginning of their lives were necessarily acknowledging revivals of musicals because they weren't something that really existed, especially in the early days of the Tony Awards. Shows had to be written first. We were still writing the earliest musicals before we could get around to reviving them. But for some time now, the categories at each have looked as follows and bear with me as I try and spell this out. Let's start with the categories they have in common. They both award Best New Musical, Best New Play, Best Revival of a Musical, best Revival of a Play. I will say, on the subject of the Oliviers, the wording here begins to annoy me because they can feel slightly play centric and you notice it in the way the awards are titled. Because those names that I used are the names used by the Tony Awards. The Oliviers will call them Best revival, meaning of a play, or best revival of a musical. The same goes for the acting awards. Best leading actor, best performance by a leading actor, that is, which means play or best performance by a leading actor in a musical. It's like play is the default and musical is a caveat. Speaking of those actors, they are also recognized in the same sort of a way, the Oliviers and the Tonys. In spite of changes made to almost every other theatre, awards in both countries continue to utilize gendered acting categories, meaning we have awards for best leading actor in a play, best leading actor in a musical, best leading actress in a play, best leading actress in a musical, best supporting actor in a play, best supporting actor in a musical, best supporting actress in a play, best supporting actress in a musical. They each award over the eight categories. There is a difference in terms of how many are going to be awarded in each category. There are specific rules for the Tonys based on how many there are eligible for nomination. This goes for productions as well. There are more nominations in a category if there are more eligible productions to choose from. If there are only three revivals that year, they don't all get a nomination by default. If there are 12 revivals, it's going to be a fuller category. Degree. The Olivier Awards, from what we can tell, especially when it comes to actors, sort of just do this based on a whim. Although if there is some science behind it, it's never been made known to me. Until recently, there was a real disparity in terms of the number of actors acknowledged from plays and from musicals, and there were more nominees in almost every single play category. This year we finally have parity, which is wonderful because there are more than enough nominees to choose from in both fields. There are more details, by the way, with the Tonys and getting additional acting nominees because of a tie. If there's a tie, then you might see like a seventh acting nominee in a category which can only usually hold 6. And back over to the Oliviers, though I have heard that they're trying to move away from this. They have done some wild joint nominations in the past, like the seven actors who played the tiger in the Life of PI all being nominated together, or the six queens from six all being nominated together, whereas they were nominated individually over at the Tonys. Worth saying as well that they have disagreed entirely, not just about things like that, but also about whether or not someone is a leading or a supporting character, the same person in the same production. Sharon D. Clark in Death of a Salesman was considered leading on one side of the Atlantic and supporting on the other. She won on one side of the Atlantic and wasn't even nominated on the other. Uller and the Producers, I think, is another one, has been leading and has been supporting elsewhere. Of course, that would also imply that each of those awards agrees with themselves, which they don't always. The witch in into the woods is. Is this year at the Oliviers considered a featured role, but when the show first premiered here, it was a leading role. Anyway, enough said about acting. Let's talk about the creatives, and this is where we start to see differences. They both recognize directors, but they don't recognize them in the same way. The Tonys have two separate awards. Best director of a play, best director of a musical. They are, after all, very different disciplines. The Oliviers group them all together as Best Director, and you guessed it, the category is often dominated by those who have worked in plays. They both recognize recognize choreography individually, and they both recognize technical and visual design categories. But again, the Tonys are split play and musical. The Oliviers are grouped together. So the Tonys have best set designer for play, best Set Designer for musical. We just have set design over here at the Oliviers. Similarly, the Oliviers recognize lighting, sound and costume design. And the Tonys have six further categories for each of those, with one being play, one being musical. In each instance, there is some pressure on each of the awarding bodies to recognize wigs, hair and makeup, as well as video design, though neither of them has as of yet, made any indication that they're going to. And then we get to music and writing awards, and this is where it gets entirely sticky and bizarre, even because the Tonys will give out an award for best new score. In the past, I believe that this was even split into composition and outstanding lyrics, although I might be wrong about that. They also award best book of a musical musical. Neither of these are awards that exist at the Oliviers. There was a petition signed by very influential people a couple of years ago that didn't really affect any change or recognition. Instead, what the Oliviers do is they nominate the writers of the show, the composer, the lyricist, the book writer, within the prize of Best new Musical, which is the same thing they do for plays. The Olivier Award for Best new Play goes to the playwright, not the producers. The award for Best New Musical now goes to the writers and not the producers, though I don't know if the producers also get one. Anyway, it does make it challenging, though, to really uplift musical theatre writers and musical theatre book writers in the UK when they aren't specifically celebrated for their work individually. And we never have the chance to say that show was great, but this show had an amazing score and this show had an amazing book. There are years at the Tonys when they go to different shows and deservedly so, but here in the UK it simply has to be what's the best musical overall? And that's before we even talk about Outstanding Musical Contribution, which is this very woolly Olivier's category that used to include composition and now perhaps for the better doesn't. I can personally never forget the year when Tim Minchin was nominated for his ingenious score for Groundhog Day, the musical, but lost to the kids from School of Rock who won for playing their own instruments on stage. Because composers can be nominated alongside on stage musicians in the same way the band from Come From Away, I think, were nominated for an Olivier. This year. Sean Hayes is nominated for Best Leading Actor in a play, but he's also nominated for playing the piano on stage. And so I affectionately refer to this particular Olivier category as Good Job Making Music Happen Somehow on a Stage. It can also include plays. This year it has so stereophonic in Kenreck's very music include inclusive plays have been recognized here alongside musicals. It can include new orchestrations which are their own individually recognized thing over at the Tony Awards, which I believe just about brings us to the end of the creative categories. You can begin to understand why I get something of a headache talking about each of these awards in parallel every year. And that almost brings us to the end of the Tony Awards categories, but there are actually a fair few more at the Olivia, and with all of those joint categories and with the categories that they didn't have, it made it sound as though the Oliviers simply don't recognize as much, which is not true for multiple reasons. And the Tonys have a few special Tony categories, including one for Theatre Educators for Regional theatres, as well as the Isabel Stephenson Award for Philanthropic work. But the Oliviers actually have a bunch of additional categories for recognizing entertainment across across further genres, including multiple awards for Achievement in Opera, for Achievement in Dance, for Family Shows and Entertainment, as well as a slightly contentious category for Best Comedy, Play or Entertainment. And it's the or entertainment thing there that becomes this umbrella that seems to cover, you know, just about whatever we want, because it turns out almost anything can be called entertainment and will be if they think that that's an easier way to win the Olivier, which it very often is. And so we have seen nominations and wins in this category for plays that are overtly comedic, as well as plays like Amelia by Morgan Lloyd Malcolm, but it is generally seen as an easier category to win. Titanique, the Musical made the smart decision last year to enter themselves in this category rather than Best New Musical, where they will presumably be considered at the Tony Awards this year. And they won as a result, as did, if you can believe it, Stranger Things. The First Shadow. Clearly not a comedy, but a very entertaining spectacle of a show. And it's that or entertainment bit on the end of the category that just about justifies its inclusion. Had Hunger Games received any Olivier nominations this year, this is the category where it would have ended up, although there isn't consistency there because we very often compare Stranger Things with Harry Potter and the Cursed Child, the play I'd rather not mention, but that won in the category of Best New Play that didn't go into entertainment, that simply swept the Olivier Awards in the most straightforward of categories. And there is another Olivier's category we haven't mentioned, which is Outstanding Achievement in Affiliate Theatre. Now, at this point, we haven't really spoken about which shows are actually eligible for Tony Awards or Oliviers beyond the ones that are in New York York and the ones that are in London. And you may be shouting at your device. Well, it's Broadway shows and West End shows, and that is true. But it's a little bit more complicated than that, because the Tony Awards recognize only newly opened Broadway shows within that particular season. End of April to the end of the following April. Right. It's the reason why Jack Wolfe isn't eligible for a Tony Award for playing Orpheus this year in Hadestown, sadly, because he was a replacement cast member. And before anyone tells me in the comments that we should be giving Tony Awards to replace the replacements, consider the logistics of sending that nominating committee and the voters to every show that has a replacement cast member in addition to all of the other ones that they're currently seeing. Consider the expense to those productions of having to comp in hundreds upon hundreds of people. Additionally, every time they bring in new cast members. And it's not just annually, shows like Omari and Chicago and even Hadestown are changing cast members quite frequently. Anyway, that is the comparatively neat way that it works with the Tony Awards. They simply recognize that year's new Broadway openings, which is to say, shows that have opened at the 40 or so Broadway theaters, and they exclude Off Broadway entirely, though Off Broadway shows can be recognized by the Drama Desks or the Obie Awards or the Lucille Lortel. So, you know, don't cry for them. Argentina. The Olivier Awards. I really wish I had a shot of tequila I could drink before I try and explain this one to you. Award in their main categories, openings from within the eligibility window at theatres that are part of the Society of London Theatre. And again, I'll remind you to be a part of the Society of London Theatre, that theatre need only pay a membership fee to the Society of London Theatre and they can change from one year to the next. They can pay for a full membership or the slightly less expensive budget option of an affiliate membership. So a venue like the Soho Theatre can go from being affiliate one year to full membership the next. It's why Julia McDermott got a leading actress in a play nomination for Weather Girl at that venue, even though it's a teeny tiny theatre that would probably be considered off off Broadway if it were in New York. So you end up with main category eligibility for commercial West End theatres that are similar to those 40 or so Broadway theatres, but also places like the Donmar Warehouse House, Very small capacity. Places like the Almeida Theatre, not only a very small capacity, but also not in the central West End. It's over in islington. It's a 30 minute bus journey if traffic's not bad. Places like Regent's Park Open Air Theatre, eligible in all of the main categories. Their equivalent in New York, the Delacorte Theatre in Central park, are not eligible anywhere in the Tonys. I don't know if the Delacorte's actually really eligible for anything. Meanwhile, you have other venues in London, like the Bush Theatre, like the upstairs space at the Royal Court, which are part of the affiliate membership. The downstairs main space at the Royal Court is main category, again, would absolutely be considered off Broadway in New York because of its capacity, because of its location. But the upstairs is affiliate and there have been occasions where it seemed as though shows weren't going to get nominated because the venue hadn't paid the membership. There was something of a controversy about Guys and Dolls at the Bridge Theatre, this immersive revival of Guys and Dolls, which was so celebrated nearly not getting any Olivier nominations because they hadn't paid for a Society of London Theatre membership in the end. They did, I believe, at the last minute, and the situation changed. But the upshot of all of this is that there are far more shows in London plays and musicals which can be nominated. There are far more eligible productions, which means it's so much easier to see an entire Tony season in terms of eligibility and have seen everything thing than it is here in the uk. Here it's basically impossible. And I think that covers just about everything. You may need to know about the differences in terms of what and who is actually awarded by the Tonys and the Oliviers. It goes without saying that they also tend to make different choices. Some performances and productions are equally celebrated by both. Some have very disparate success on either side of the Atlantic. But in those cases, they may also find that the Tony and the Olivier don't quite mean the same thing. Let's conclude this conversation by talking about their industry.
- [32:08]
Hayden
Howdy, howdy ho, and welcome to Fantasy Fan Fellas. I'm Hayden, producer of the Fantasy Fangirls podcast and your resident lover of all things Sanderson.
- [32:16]
Stephen
And I'm Stephen, your bookish Internet goofball, but you can call me the Smash Daddy.
- [32:20]
Hayden
And we are currently deep diving Brandon Sanders Anderson's fantasy epic Mistborn. But here's the catch. Steven here has not read Mistborn before.
- [32:28]
Stephen
That's right. Hey hey. So each week you'll get my unfiltered raw reactions to every single chapter.
- [32:33]
Hayden
And along the way we'll do character deep dives, magic explainers, and Steven will even try to guess what's next. Spoiler alert. He'll be wrong.
- [32:40]
Stephen
News flash. I'm never wrong. Episodes come out every Wednesday and you can find Fantasy Fan fellows wherever you get your podcasts.
- [32:48]
Strawberry Me Advertiser
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- [33:43]
Mickey Jo
the Impact. Now, there are probably insights here that actors, especially those who have worked on either side of the Atlantic, especially those who have won both awards, may be able to share. And I have heard offhand that like, you get a pay rise when you get a Tony nomination, you get an additional pay rise if you go on to win the thing. I don't know if that that necessarily applies here in London, though you'd like to think that it would. The pay rate to begin with is so much lower. But what we do know and what we can tell and what we can see is that the Olivier Award to the general public, even to the industry to some extent, doesn't mean the same thing as the Tony Award. And we've said that this is the reason why it doesn't affect the season quite so much. The gravity of the opening night schedule across a 12 month period period isn't disproportionately affected by the Oliviers in the same way that it is by the Tonys. The Tonys shape everything. And another reason for this, and I've said this multiple times, is the difference in ticket price. Because Broadway shows are on average far more expensive than shows in the West End. And tourists going to New York will realize this quite quickly. I also have said before that a lot of New York tourism is, is Broadway centric or at least Broadway inclusive. And though the theatre is very celebrated here in London, it isn't necessarily as obvious a component of British tourism. You know, you're going to go see Buckingham palace and the Changing of the Guard, you're going to go for high tea and it's historic and all of these things. But if you're going to New York, you tend to think Broadway a little more readily. Seeing a Broadway show is a more obvious part of a New York trip than seeing a West End show is of a London trip. Though I would still encourage you to do both. Both. And what that tends to mean is that tourists will end up in New York eager to see a Broadway show. They will notice they're more expensive. And so they will be guided by the Tony Awards. Not just what they may have seen on their TV and exciting performances or winning individuals, but also what it says up on the Marquee 2026 Best New Musical that's very persuasive. And a show that is struggling at the box office will hang on. You see this happen almost every year, year to see if they get that kind of a boost. And if you look at the grosses which are made public on Broadway but are not in the West End because we like to be weird and secretive about everything, then you will notice the shows that do or don't get a boost at the box office after the Tonys. Meanwhile, over here in the West End, the price isn't quite as prohibiting, so people don't need to go to like, what just won the Olivier. There may be some sense of that guiding people, but for the most part, if a play has just won the Olivier Award for Best New Play, it's quite possibly already finished its very limited run or already sold out. While the popularity of musicals, and I'm sure there's something of a bump, but generally speaking, seems to be pretty unaffected by even the biggest Olivier win, even Best New Musical doesn't necessarily seem to be enough to suddenly give a show much more staying power. The curious case of Benjamin Button, last year's brilliant Olivier Award winning Best New musical still only managed a year in the West End, and its Olivier Award win came about halfway through that period. This year's front runner, meanwhile, Paddington the Musical is going to sell well regardless, and was always going to sell well regardless, and is already acclaimed and sold out and viral on social media. And Olivier, Wynn at this point is kind of just like thrown in there with the rest of the positive noise. And I don't know know if that even does anything else to sell more tickets or if they're already going so fast. Regardless, don't get me wrong, I'm sure that team will still be celebrating and I've already seen Tom Fletcher and Jessica Swale at multiple awards ceremonies giving lovely speeches this season. Just saw them at the Theatre Critics Circle Award the other day. Chances are they're gonna have to come up with more wonderful things to say when they win at the Oliviers. And you know, it isn't just the difference in the way that they're broadcast, it's in terms of how they fit into the entire consciousness of the nation and as well. And at each ceremony, it is sort of the one day of the year where theater is suddenly of interest to all of these larger news outlets that don't tend to for the rest of the year report on Broadway openings or even star studded carpets, but they care an awful lot about the Tonys and the Oliviers. It's the reason why I can't get onto either carpet or into either press room, which is fine because I'm quite happy to watch the ceremony instead. I promise you, that's a more fun way to spend your evening. Evening. What does make me sad though, is when only the film stars in attendance get interviewed on the carpet and not the creatives who have showed up and are very excited to be nominated and then get made to feel like they're not important. That's very upsetting to me. If you did put me on the carpet, I'd want to talk to everyone. I'd be thrilled to talk to the lighting designers, though I don't assume that everyone across the United States is aware of the Tony Awards. It is sort of more broadly understood, it's merchandise and it's talked about in a way that the Oliviers just aren't even theatre people here, you know, like, we'll discuss the Oliviers, but it doesn't feel like it's all consuming in the same way, as evidenced perhaps by the fact that it's way easier and way cheaper to just buy tickets to the Oliviers. That's still what I do every single year than it is for the Tony Awards. But people don't necessarily. I also think there's something of a cultural difference, difference in the way that British people and American people experience awards shows. I think the biggest entertainment awards in the world continue to be US centric. We talk about the Grammys, we talk about the Academy Awards. The entire concept of the EGOT is a very American one, though British people in entertainment still aspire to it. And I remember an anecdote, I think this was Dame Judi Dench congratulating David Padella for this when he won the Olivier for presumably Jerry Springer the Opera, his first Olivier win. And she thanked him for giving a passionate speech because a lot of British winners up until that point in the evening, David Badella's from the US had been sort of very blase and unemotional about it. And then he went up and was, in his own words, Mr. America and gave a more emotionally forthright and genuine speech. There is this sneaking idea within British culture that we shouldn't really indulge in the same way in awards and celebration and patting ourselves on the back. I am occasionally, the morning after the Oliviers, offered the chance to talk about them on the radio. And I remember one year I sort of shared my thoughts on everything that had happened and the final question I was asked was something to the effect of, isn't it all a little bit self indulgent, though, isn't it? A bunch of bunch of lovies just like giving each other trophies, which I thought was utterly ridiculous, but perhaps from outside of the theatre bubble, that's what it looks like, with little regard for the amount of work that goes into this industry and how precarious it is. Anyway, stepping off of my soapbox, the point that I wanted to convey is that the Oliviers and the Tony Awards mean very different things. It's lovely to get an Olivier. It isn't going to change change the direction of a show's sales, though, you know, as times begin to shift, as people glance slightly more across the Atlantic, Americans become more aware of what's happening in London. UK theatre fans become more aware of what's happening on Broadway, though they sort of were already maybe we're going to see more changes in that regard, although honestly it would be better, and producers like Sonja Friedman have advocated for this already. And if the Broadway system took more notes from the West End and spread out their opening nights in exchange, perhaps the Oliviers can revise some of their categories in the meantime. I remain completely invested in both. And since I can't think of any glaring oversights right now, though I'm sure you can let me know about at least one or two in the comments. That is everything I have to tell you about the major differences between the Olivier Awards and the Tonys. If there's anything I haven't addressed, or any enduring questions that you have have about either of these, please feel free to ask them in the comments section down below and I will do my best. In the meantime, thank you so much for listening to this. Stay tuned for my coverage of both of these. Tony's thoughts aren't going to come until towards the end of April, when I will predict the nominations, hopefully by that point having seen the majority of, if not all, of this spring's openings. If you're looking forward to my Broadway reviews, that's another reason to make sure you're subscribed with the notification turned on. But way before then, we're going to be talking about the Oliviers and I'm going to be going to the Oliviers. For everyone who wants to know when I am dropping my Olivier predictions, there are a couple I've already shared on LondonTheatre.co.uk, but the full predictions, as well as my thoughts on who ought to win in each category will be shared the week before the ceremony. So stay tuned here on social media, make sure you're subscribed, notifications turned on so you don't miss it. Until then, I hope that everyone is staying safe and that you have a stagey day for 10 more seconds. I'm Mickey Jo Theater. Oh my God. Hey, thanks for watching. Have a stagey day. Subscribe
- [43:00]
Hayden
Howdy, howdy ho, and welcome to Fantasy Fan Fellas. I'm Hayden, producer of the Fantasy Fangirls podcast and your resident lover of all
- [43:07]
Stephen
things Sanderson And I'm Stephen, your bookish Internet goofball. But you can call me the Smash Dan.
- [43:13]
Hayden
And we are currently deep diving Brandon Sanderson's fantasy epic Mistborn. But here's the catch. Steven here has not read Mistborn before.
- [43:21]
Stephen
That's right.
- [43:21]
Unidentified Guest or Advertiser
Hey.
- [43:22]
Stephen
Hey. So each week you'll get my unfiltered raw reactions to every single chapter.
- [43:26]
Hayden
And along the way we'll do character deep dives, magic explainers, and Steven will even try to guess what's next. Spoiler alert. He'll be wrong.
- [43:33]
Stephen
Newsflash. I'm never wrong. Episodes come out every Wednesday, and you can find fantasy fanfellas wherever you get your podcast.
- [43:41]
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- [44:10]
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