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- [00:00]
Blue Apron Advertiser
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- [00:31]
BetterHelp Advertiser
BetterHelp Online Therapy bought this 30 second ad to remind you right now, wherever you are, to unclench your jaw, relax your shoulders, take a deep breath in and out. Feels better, right? That's 15 seconds of self care. Imagine what you could do with more. Visit betterhelp.com randompodcast for 10% off your first month of therapy. No pressure, just help. But for now, just relax.
- [01:12]
Hayden
Howdy, howdy ho, and welcome to Fantasy Fan Fellas. I'm Hayden, producer of the Fantasy Fangirls podcast and your resident lover of all things Sanderson.
- [01:20]
Stephen
And I'm Stephen, your bookish Internet goofball, but you can call me the Smash Daddy.
- [01:24]
Hayden
And we are currently deep diving Brandon Sanderson's fantasy epic Mistbor. But here's the catch. Steven here has not read Mistborn before.
- [01:32]
Stephen
That's right.
- [01:33]
Todrick Hall
Hey.
- [01:33]
Stephen
Hey. So each week, you'll get my unfiltered raw reactions to every single chapter.
- [01:38]
Hayden
And along the way, we'll do character deep dives, magic explainers, and Steven will even try to guess what's next. Spoiler alert. He'll be wrong.
- [01:45]
Stephen
News flash, I'm never wrong. Episodes come out every Wednesday, and you can find Fantasy Fan Fellas wherever you get your podcasts.
- [01:54]
Todrick Hall
I'm so excited to, like, be on this video.
- [01:57]
Mickey Jo
Okay, let's just dive into it.
- [01:58]
Todrick Hall
Okay.
- [01:59]
Mickey Jo
Oh, my God. Hey. Todrick Hall.
- [02:01]
Todrick Hall
Hi. I can't believe this is happening.
- [02:03]
Mickey Jo
It's very nice to be here. Thank you for taking the time to chat to me. We are backstage at Sadler's Wells east, where you are performing in and directing and choreographing and have written your new musical, Midnight.
- [02:17]
Todrick Hall
Yes, that's absolutely correct. This whole time I've been watching your videos. I think that you have some sort of teleprompter. I'm like, there's no way he's this articulate at all times. And you're just so on it. I just love it.
- [02:27]
Mickey Jo
Oh, bless you. It's. It's a lot of editing.
- [02:30]
Todrick Hall
I. I'm obsessed. I was just telling him before we started filming that my ex boyfriend would be like, Todrick. Do you have to listen to him every single night? Because I turn Mickey Jo videos on almost every night when I'm going to sleep. Because you've been uploading more and more and more lately.
- [02:44]
Mickey Jo
Yeah. And so that's why I don't sleep. That's what happens.
- [02:47]
Todrick Hall
I love it. Well, congratulations on everything you're doing. I mean, I think if someone gets a rave review from you today in 2026, it's better than, like, the New York Times review. Like, people are listening. You got your ear to the streets, and the kids care about what Minky Jo has to say.
- [03:03]
Mickey Jo
Thank you. Well, then we've vicariously spent a lot of time together while you've been listening. But we've also met each other a couple of times, usually in or around theaters in London and New York. But this is the first chance to sit down and ask all the questions I've been wanting to ask. Yeah, we're going to talk about midnight because this is a development run. It's like an ongoing workshop. But when we say workshop, fully staged, fully costumed, we're not up here reading scripts.
- [03:29]
Todrick Hall
Yeah, this is. I mean, I learned so much from doing burlesque, which I'm sure we will also talk about, but I learned so much from doing that that, you know, the. The idea of a preview period that once was. Doesn't really exist anymore. It feels like a prehistoric concept. These kids are ready with their tiktoks and everything. Day one. And I. I met this lovely kid named, I think, Dylan, and he posted a video after he came to see the burlesque.
- [03:55]
Mickey Jo
My friend Dylan.
- [03:56]
BetterHelp Advertiser
Yeah.
- [03:56]
Todrick Hall
Oh, you know Dylan. Yes. Yeah. Okay. So Dylan came and he posted his video day one. And I was like, this is the first preview. Like, oh, my goodness. And the court of public opinion starts being formed so early on. That, to me, I was like, I'm not taking any chances with this show. I'm going to make sure that I'm workshopping it to a level where I can really see how people are going to experience the show.
- [04:16]
Mickey Jo
Yeah, yeah. And you're a proper theater person, like, your entire life. I want to know what. What made you first fall in love with musical theater and when that was.
- [04:24]
Todrick Hall
Oh, okay. I will not cry. I'm not a crier, but as I'm getting older, I've started to, like, cry over the simplest things. So when I was very young, I'll try To make. You can edit this because it could be long winded. But I went to this school, and I had a really traumatic experience at my elementary school. This teacher called me a horrible word that you would call an African American kid. I got moved to another school. My mom got to pick the school that I went to, so she picked the best school in town. And it was just such a huge juxtaposition from where I came from, where we had to go through metal detectors. It was very unsafe to going to a school that had fresh books and fresh paint on the walls, and the computers were all the best of the best. And I remember being 7 or 8 years old, and I was in the library, and this beautiful lady named Pat Carthal came in to me. She said, hi, Todrick. My name's Pat Carthal. Your teachers were telling me that you're very special, and I want to test you for the gifted and talented program. And so she gave me this thing of six squares, and they all had squiggly lines in them. And I. She said, you have to turn these into something. And I turned them into Dorothy, Scarecrow, the Tin man, the Lion, Glinda, and the Bad Witch. And that teacher changed my life. Her daughter owned the only dance studio in town. It was called Tip Tap Toes, the cutest name ever. And she put me in dance classes. They took me to see the Nutcracker. And I could just tell that at that moment, I was, like, smitten with theater, even though it wasn't theater, as I have now chased that dream. It was more ballet. But I was in love with everything. Like how the flying rig worked and how the smoke machines worked, the. The sound of the orchestra warming up, the concession stand smells. I was, like, on the edge of my seat, couldn't believe how much I loved it. And then that theater teacher had season tickets to all the shows in town, and her husband didn't like to go. So she took me as her student, as her plus one. We saw the King and I and Sound of Music and all of these musicals, and I just started to become obsessed with musical theater, and I never looked back.
- [06:19]
Mickey Jo
And then I guess you forged your career doing your first few Broadway credits and kind of simultaneously building a presence for yourself online and via kind of other areas of entertainment as well. But Broadway debut was Color Purple, right?
- [06:36]
Todrick Hall
Yes.
- [06:36]
Mickey Jo
Yeah.
- [06:37]
Todrick Hall
She's done her research. I am, yeah. That was insane. I was on a cruise ship, actually, and I left the cruise ship because I found out about this audition, and I went there just on a wing And a Prayer auditioned for a Broadway musical before. And yeah, I. I auditioned and I remember getting the call back. And that night I got to see the show. The night after auditioned, I got to see the show. And my experience with just blackness in general has been a very interesting one because I grew up doing ballet, where I was always the only boy and the only black person in my dance studio. And I never really identified with, like, you know, all my cousins played sports, and they all, like, looked up to Usher and whoever was big at that time. And I never really resonated with those people because that wasn't like, I didn't see myself in that. And so I just remember getting shivers down my spine because the story is so captivating and heart wrenching. But also, it was such an interesting thing because Fantasia Barrino was playing Celie when I saw it. And I was a humongous American Idol fan. I had voted for her so many times, so to see her live was incredible. But also, I had just never felt so proud to be black in my entire life. I just was looking at all those beautiful chocolate people thinking, like, no one else could tell the story in this way with this type of dance and these. This level of vocal. It was just. It was a life changing experience for me. And at that moment, I was like, I have to book this show. And so I went and auditioned the next day. And I found out that night while I was watching the first act of Legally Blonde, I found out that I was. Little did I know I'd be working with Orfeh years later.
- [08:15]
Mickey Jo
Oh, my God. Yeah, of course.
- [08:16]
Todrick Hall
But I was watching the first act of Legally Blonde when I found out on my flip phone that I got cast in the Color Purple. And I was losing my mind, screaming. And I opened two weeks later. My mom got to fly in from Texas. She'd never been to New York. Neither of us had ever really been to New York. And it was just. It's one of those pinch me moments. It was my life's dream to be on Broadway, and I hoped that at one point in my life I'd get a chance to be on one Broadway show. And I remember going onto stage for the first time, and the dance Captain Jamal's story was like, okay, so we're going to start here. And I was like, wait just one second. I was, like, rubbing the floor. I couldn't believe that was like actually stepping foot on a Broadway stage. So it was. It's insane. Even now when I talk about it, I feel like I'm immediately Transported back to that time because it was just a dream come true felt surreal.
- [09:04]
Mickey Jo
Beyond that of the other Broadway shows you've had the chance to do, would you. Is there one that sort of crystallizes as the most meaningful or memorable experience?
- [09:16]
Todrick Hall
That's so hard. But only because the Color Purple was my first show and being in an all black cast, I just learned so many things that, that I hadn't. That experience was like spiritual almost for me. And I'm not a very spiritual person. So for me to say that is, it's, it's big. But Kinky Boots was like life changing for me because I never saw myself as somebody who would be a lead. I always covered roles and I was always the person was like, I hope I never have to go on. I was not the person that's going to like go thr, you know, pearls and try to like knock the person out. I was like, please don't call me, don't call me. And so when I got the call that I was going to play Lowland Kinky Boots, I just couldn't believe it. And I remember so many nights going out at like 3am in the morning and just sobbing in the middle of Times Square by myself because I just couldn't believe. I felt like I had like bamboozled the system or something. I just couldn't believe that I got the chance to star in that show. And Daryl Roth, the producer was so incredibly kind to me and, and the cast was so welcoming. And I just remember the last night I had to sit, the first night, the first scene that Lola does, she. She has her back to the audience. She's being mugged by some guys in like an alleyway or something. And I just exhaled. I was like, like that. And the audience started screaming because they knew that my fans that had been following me on YouTube for years just knew what a dream come true it was. And I accepted the role, not even realizing the parallels that it would have with my life. It opened on April 4, which is my birthday, which was a crazy thing, but also just the relationship that Lola has with her dad was like my relationship with my dad. And he wasn't present for me. And I, when I would sing, not my father's son, sometimes I couldn't make it through it. In the last performance, I felt like I was literally suffocating or drowning. Like I, I couldn't get any of the words out because it was. I just. Yeah, I've had a lot of moments in my life where I just can't believe that it's happening. You know, I have a severe case of imposter syndrome. I think that I play it off well. I have a good poker face, so people don't know how much I'm, like, freaking out about everything that happens. So I was so grateful to get to experience that. So I think that Kinky Boots has to, like, trump everything. I don't know if that was a good enough reason to say the word trump, but. But I. Yeah, that. That night. Well, I'll never forget that.
- [11:34]
Mickey Jo
Yeah. Do you think it's the hardest role you've ever had to play on stage?
- [11:38]
Todrick Hall
I would say so. Just because it's so demanding. I feel like, you know, I had, like, a decent sized butt before that, but because I was walking up and down stairs in heels, it really, honestly upped my game.
- [11:49]
Mickey Jo
It's a workout no one tells you about. Nobody told me, Mickey, where are these fitness influences?
- [11:53]
Todrick Hall
I know, right? So that helped me a lot, just walking in those hills. And I think that, like. Like, a lot of queer people, I've really struggled with my relationship with femininity. And, like, sometimes we have this, like, relationship insane pressure to. Especially for me, a lot of black men from the south like to. It was so freeing for me to, like, embrace that because I hadn't really done a lot of drag before that. And I remember I like, begged the producers for the costume to, like, take to LA because I was shooting an episode of Drag Race, and I was, like, texting RuPaul, think, do you mind if I just take five minutes to film this little video to announce that I'm going to be doing Kinky Boots? And he was like, yeah, of course. I would love that. And he was so great about it. But the producers were like, we don't send Broadway costumes and wigs out to, like, Drag Race just for funsies. And I was like, I think you should do this. And then 10 million views later, they were like, yeah, we're glad that we went outside the box. Because when I got on Broadway, now there's a lot of influencers that have been on Broadway, but at that time, it was unprecedented for them to be hiring people who were solely known as social media influencers to be in Broadway shows. So I do think that it was. That was the question you asked me. I do think that it required the most of me. Not just vocally, though, and acting wise, it was like I had to get over the fact that, like, I was wearing a dress and there was a picture of me in Times Square, which is something that you wouldn't think I'd have to get over, but it was hard for me to embrace the fact that that's what I was going to be known for is, like, you know, like, cross dressing and being a drag queen. Because there's so many people in my family who are so Christian and so conservative that I thought that they would be sort of, like, embarrassed by, like, oh, Todrick went to Hollywood and became a woman. You know, like, I don't know what they would be saying, but. But I. But they didn't have that reaction. They were all so supportive, and they came and saw the show, and it was lovely. And I feel like it brought my mom closer to understanding, like, this journey that I'm on as an LGBTQ human,
- [13:51]
Mickey Jo
but also activist, very different kind of a show. Then I saw you in the West End at the Phoenix Theatre in Chicago years back.
- [13:58]
Todrick Hall
Well, thank you very much. I appreciate it. I don't feel like there's any world where I should have been playing Billy Flynn, but I was so grateful for that opportunity.
- [14:05]
Mickey Jo
You're great.
- [14:06]
Todrick Hall
Moment of imposter syndrome. I was like, this should be some straight old white man that looks like the KFC chicken guy. And that's just what my mind thought it needed to be. And I remember calling Shoshana Bean, saying, like, I'm feeling a little guilty about having this role. You know, that this conversation's happening right now with Mag thee Stallion. People are saying, is she taking away jobs from people who would other an actor who would otherw be doing this job? And Shoshana said something really profound to me that I don't want to. I don't want to quote her because I'm gonna have to paraphrase, but she was like, because you are going to be in that show, the show gets extended. So maybe you are taking the job of someone that might have been in that position before, but 30 other people, and not to mention the crew and wigs, everybody has a job because you're bringing an audience there. So I had to, like, talk myself off of a ledge because I see comments and stuff. People are like, why is he playing this role? And I was like, I agree. I don't honestly know why I'm doing this, but I had to, like, learn, you know, like, what is my version of Billy Flynn? And I am such a salesman, you know, like, I've had to, like, pitch everything that I've ever done. So I was like, todrick, you do do this. You could be a lawyer. So he doesn't need to be Straight. He's not in a relationship with a woman who says, billy finish. Billy Flynn is straight. So I had to, like, coach myself through that because my imposter syndrome is on an all time high. Mickey.
- [15:26]
Mickey Jo
And this is. And we're talking about Chicago here. Billy Ray Cyrus did Chicago.
- [15:30]
Todrick Hall
I know, but in my mind, I'm like, of course he should. They have the same name, for starters.
- [15:34]
Mickey Jo
They've had, like, NFL alumni have done Chicago.
- [15:37]
Todrick Hall
I know. That's why the imposter syndrome thing, it's the craziest thing. How we as humans will, like, stop ourselves from doing something because the fear of failure is so big. Do you do that ever in your life?
- [15:47]
Mickey Jo
Oh, all the time. Constantly.
- [15:48]
Todrick Hall
It's the worst.
- [15:49]
Mickey Jo
I wish I could call Shoshana Bean and have her talk me out of it.
- [15:51]
Todrick Hall
That would be. She is the best person to do it. And she's so concise. And she didn't have to, like, think about it at all. She was like, but you're also a Broadway performer. You know, like, there are some people that you're like, okay, why is this happening? They don't sing or dance at all. She's like, you can do this. And I'm sure it was like a non event to her. But she has said she has given me several, like, gems of wisdom throughout my career that have really helped me a lot that I think about constantly.
- [16:19]
BetterHelp Advertiser
BetterHelp Online Therapy bought this 30 second ad to remind you right now, wherever you are, to unclench your jaw, relax your shoulders, take a deep breath in and out. Feels better, right? That's 15 seconds of self care. Imagine what you could do with more. Visit betterhelp.com randompodcast for 10% off your first month of therapy. No pressure, just help. But for now, just relax.
- [17:01]
Hayden
Howdy, howdy ho, and welcome to Fantasy Fan Fellas. I'm Hayden, producer of the Fantasy Fan Girls podcast and your resident lover of all things Sanderson.
- [17:09]
Stephen
And I'm Stephen, your bookish Internet goofball. But you can call me the Smash Daddy.
- [17:13]
Hayden
And we are currently deep diving Brandon Sanderson's fantasy epic Mistborn. But here's the catch. Steven here has not read Mistborn before.
- [17:21]
Stephen
That's right.
- [17:22]
Todrick Hall
Hey.
- [17:22]
Stephen
Hey. So each week you'll get my unfiltered raw reactions to single chapter.
- [17:27]
Hayden
And along the way, we'll do character deep dives, magic explainers, and Steven will even try to guess what's next. Spoiler alert. He'll be wrong.
- [17:34]
Stephen
News flash, I'm never wrong. Episodes come out every Wednesday, and you can Find fantasy fan fellows wherever you get your podcasts.
- [17:43]
Mickey Jo
Years later, you've made a big impact in the London theatre scene over the last year. Especially, we have to talk about the journey and experience that was burlesque, which is coming back later this year in, I gather, a new production, new creative team with different direction. But you wore many different hats in that show. How were you initially brought into it? What was your. Were you brought on as a composer first or as a performer first?
- [18:12]
Todrick Hall
Yeah, so I was brought in as a composer first because when I started, I don't know if I'm. No one's ever told me not to say these things. So Jerry Mitchell was going to be the director. And so the producers went to Jerry and said, what about Todrick? To write the music they had seen straight out of Oz, my visual album. And they were like, I think he could. They saw the song that I did with Nicole Scherzinger, Poppy, and that made them feel like I might be a good fit to do this. And so I was in London and I had. I went to the Civil Theater and we. Which is crazy because at that time it was. We were just meeting there because Jerry was there doing Pretty Woman or something. I never even thought about that. That ended up being the theater the show was in. And y. Yeah, they brought me on to be a composer of the show. And it was a crazy journey. I mean, like, it was. You would need a whole sit down with just that show. But they asked me to write one of the songs for the show, and I wrote the song BIG and from there they asked me to write more and more material. And originally I was only going to be writing a few songs and they kept needing more and more material. So I ended up writing probably like 30 different songs and maybe 15 of them or 20 of them ended up in the show. But yeah, I was brought on as that first. And then when I did the demo for Big, they were like, you have to come on and be this character Sean, because we want him to be more like the emcee. And they, you know, acknowledge that there wasn't a lot of representation in the first version. And I was kind of like, if I come on, I don't want to just be the assistant. Because that's like, at that time, there was like a gay Black assistant in Mrs. Doubtfire, a gay black assistant in Devil Wears Prada. And I was like, that trope has just been done so much. And I think sometimes people don't call it out because it low key feels correct to them. Which I think is problematic. So I was like, if I'm going to come to the show, I just would want my character to. Their only purpose to not be just Tess's, you know, purse, you know. And so he was like, no, no, I have a lot of ideas. De Vanton, the creator and director of the film. And so I just was like, yeah, I would, I would love to come on and do that. So I did that in Manchester. And then, then last year, while we were doing this, Adam Paulden, the lead producer, came to the rehearsal process of Midnight and said he needed to talk to me. And on a lunch break. He just was like, in the most unromantic like, like the way that he could possibly ask it. He was like, so we don't have a director, like, so you wanna do it? And I was like, well, since you asked so nicely.
- [20:42]
Mickey Jo
The stuff of dreams.
- [20:42]
Todrick Hall
Yeah, yeah, I was, you know, the Odd Life of Timothy Green, which five people have probably seen, but it's one of my favorite Disney movies. And in that movie, it's about a pair of. A couple that can't have a child. And so they wish up this child and they put all of their dreams of what they would want that child to be inside of a box and bury it. And that child comes out and he does all of those things, but not in the way that they ever imagined that he would do it. And I feel like that sort of sums up my experience with burlesque. It was like. Or just in general, I always wanted to be a director and choreographer. I didn't think that that would be the time that the opportunity fall into my lap or the way or the project. But I was like, I'm going to say yes to this because it's a great opportunity and just to be able to put that on my resume will be so helpful considering I was in the process of writing this show and there would be so many things I could learn about it and I learned so many, like, life altering lessons from that show. It was the hardest chapter I've ever gone through. I thought I would be engaged by the time that ended and now I'm single like that.
- [21:46]
Mickey Jo
That.
- [21:46]
Todrick Hall
That experience was one of the most difficult chapters I've ever, ever gone through. But I learned so much from it, so I'm grateful that it happened. And I. I have no idea what's happening with this production or how much of my music will be in it or if any of the direction. I found out that it was happening on social media when you guys did. I Learned a lot about it from watching your videos. And I just have to say, you don't have to keep this in. But I appreciate you like saying what you have said because I know that I was the easy target for people to talk about during the process. And I watched your videos and I just wanted to see what you were going to say. And the whole time, even though you weren't a part of the production, you had a feeling just from hearsay and people around the community that you. You just. Every video you said something like, I would urge you guys not to point your fingers at this person because I don't think that this is, you know, the things that were going on were not the responsibility of just one person at all, but a lot of it was far beyond my control.
- [22:46]
Mickey Jo
Did you anticipate that that narrative was gonna take shape? Were you able. Did you see that coming?
- [22:53]
Todrick Hall
I think that I've had just like a very insane journey with social media just in general. And I am a person that is oftentimes a scapegoat. And in order for me to exonerate myself, I would have to throw someone else under the bus. And I've always just tried to be like, if you stay the course and just. And keep your head down. I've definitely done a lot of things that I shouldn't have done. And I've lived a lot of my life on social media. And there are things that I did 10 years ago, 15 years ago that haven't aged well. Videos I should probably take down. I don't know why we know I even know why I still have them up. But I think that, like, I don't ever want to be a person that doesn't fall and doesn't make mistakes, even if they're massive ones. And a lot of people have, like, you know, I've done 700 videos and people have had three. This. I've had this reputation for years, so I don't pay people. And it's. It's just been like an ongoing thing that, you know, there is some validity into it because when I started social media and doing YouTube, no one was getting paid to be in videos, but I've done 700 videos. So to make something that's very gray, black and white is always difficult. And so. Which is kind of what my show Midnight speaks about. But I think I had to go through. It's been really hard, by the way. I've had some really, really dark nights and some really hard chapters of life, because I want to go explain myself sometimes, but Bob the Drag Queen was like, if people are committed to the idea of not liking you, they're not looking for receipts. It's not like you telling them this is what actually happened is going to make them say, oh, well, then I'll buy a ticket to a show. Like, if they don't like me, they're not going to come. And if they do, then they are going to come whether they watched that video or heard that rumor or not. So I knew that a lot of the blame was going to fall on me if anything happened. I knew I was the person that was holding the bag. Like, I was the one whose name was plastered all over everything and was, like, wearing so many hats. So I was terrified. I'm always terrified. But I think that life is so short and you just have to take the opportunities you get and you can't control and orchestrate how they're going to turn out or what the narrative is going to be. You can only know your truth. And that has been the hardest lesson that I've ever had to learn over the past few years. And now I love when I get to meet someone in person. Because every day someone is like, you're nothing like what I thought you were going to be like. And I'm like, that's why this whole Internet thing is a setup. It's a trick bag. It's like such a blessing in so many ways because now people like you can exist and I can listen to you every night while I'm falling asleep in America. But, like, also, we can pass judgment on somebody and make somebody who's a very three dimensional person, very two dimensional, very fast. And it's really hard because you don't see a person with a family and feelings and like a full story. You see someone who's been. Who has been reduced to a headline that might have some truth to it, but might not, you know, so the burlesque thing was really, really hard for me. And I couldn't sleep and I couldn't eat and I. People were like, are you an Ozempic? And I'm like, not anymore. Don't need it because I'm stressed out. But yeah, I mean, I remember, like, having to, like, go on social media and ask people to come to my apartment through the night to help make costumes, because we didn't have any costumes complete. And I just, I was. If I'm the type of person that, like, if I'm your friend and you say, like, are we doing this? I'm like, then I'm doing it. With 100% of me. And I won't. I won't let it fall through my fingers. I'll stay up all night. I won't eat, sleep, whatever. I'll do whatever I have to do to make it work if I commit to it. And so that chapter was just insane.
- [26:31]
Mickey Jo
But you found catharsis during that time. As I often do in a musical. Because you went back however many times to go and see the Curious Case of Benjamin Button in the West End. How many times did you see that show?
- [26:46]
Todrick Hall
Ten. Ten times. And I live in Covent Garden, and I walk by the theater every day, and I see Paranormal Activity there, and I just get so sad that I can't go see it again. That show, my therapy. Yeah, it was. It was everything to me. I'll start crying out just thinking about it. Like, Claire's performance of Elowyn was just everything to me. And I would not have thought I would have liked that show. I bought an aisle seat because I will dip out of a show. If I don't like it, I'll leave. And I was like, I'm gonna get an aisle seat because this does not look like it's for me. And 15 minutes. And I was like, I think this might be my favorite thing I've seen in a really long time. And then I just absolutely fell in love with it. And it is inspired so much of. Of how I tell this. This story. You know, I. I was very inspired by the direction of that show to shape this version of Midnight that we're doing.
- [27:39]
Hayden
Howdy, howdy, ho, and welcome to Fantasy Fan. Fellas, I'm Hayden, producer of the Fantasy Fangirls podcast and your resident lover of all things Sanderson.
- [27:47]
Stephen
And I'm Stephen, your bookish Internet goofball, but you can call me the smash daddy.
- [27:51]
Hayden
And we are currently deep diving Brandon Sanderson's fantasy epic Mistborn. But here's the catch. Steven here has not read Mistborn before.
- [28:00]
Stephen
That's right. Hey, Hei. So each week, you'll get my unfiltered raw reactions to every single chapter.
- [28:05]
Hayden
And along the way, we'll do character deep dives, magic explainers, and Steven will even try to guess what's next. Spoiler alert. He'll be wrong.
- [28:12]
Stephen
News flash. I'm never wrong. Episodes come out every Wednesday, and you can find Fantasy fanfellas wherever you get your podcasts.
- [28:19]
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- [29:22]
Todrick Hall
It was everything.
- [29:23]
Mickey Jo
Yeah. Well, let's talk about Midnight then, because while everything was happening and while you were an increasing number of roles in the world of burlesque, you were also nurturing this thing in the background, which is your baby theatrically. What was the timeline on that? When had you started writing Midnight and how did that kind of intersect with that chapter?
- [29:44]
Todrick Hall
I started thinking of the concept of midnight during the pandemic. And then I then maybe two years later. So I would say around 2022, 2023 is when I really started writing songs for the show. So it's been. This is going on three years, which is not a long time in the world of writing musicals. But I struggled with it for a long time because the subject matter is not something that just, like, screams commercial. But I don't think the cabaret screams commercial just on concept alone. Or Cats or Rent. You know, like, people wouldn't have thought that Rent was going to be that it was. But again, the imposter syndrome, the musical that I'm starring in, is so big that I was just, like, trying to convince myself over and over and over again not to do it and to find something that could be more commercial, that could be more successful. But it was just so heavy on my heart. I've always stood at an intersection because I've dated so many white men, and I have been. A lot of people in my community have been really, really upset with me because they feel like it's a betrayal that I've dated publicly. So many white have also dated black men, but oftentimes they are not willing to be seen on social media, and that's their prerogative. So it's really not anyone's business who I'm dating, but it has become a lot of people's business. And I wanted to tell a story that I felt like in a world where we're so divided more than we've ever been in my lifetime, that it could somehow bridge the gap and bring us together. And Michelle Visage posted something when Donald Trump became the president, and she was like, artists, this is when we have to create. This is the time that sometimes words are going to fail to say what we need to say. But music and art can always, like, bridge that gap and might be the medicine we need to bring us together. And so that was just again, another post that she put on her story that she probably didn't think was going to result in me writing a full musical. But it had a huge impact on me. And so many weeks I've looked at myself and been like, todrick, sit down. Like, why are you doing this? Why are you going so full out with this? But. But when my heart really wants to do something, I'm just like a child and I can't not do it. So I just sat down and started putting my head down and writing it. And last year was the first time we did a full version of the show. And I got a lot of feedback and I love to get feedback. So I can't wait to hear what you have to say about the show. I don't want people to know the full concept of the show, so I don't know if you can. Did you wear black and white today on purpose?
- [32:12]
Mickey Jo
I'm dressed as the show out west.
- [32:14]
Todrick Hall
I love it. I didn't even think about that until right now.
- [32:16]
Mickey Jo
Some days you have no idea what to wear and you just have to. You have to let it guide you.
- [32:20]
Todrick Hall
I love it. I love you. So, yeah, I think I answered your question and then some.
- [32:27]
Mickey Jo
So rather than telling us what happens in the show, people will find out when they come and see it. What are the inspirations that you're drawing on for telling this story? Where has this come from other the shows you've seen, artists who've inspired you?
- [32:43]
Todrick Hall
Yeah, I mean, so many things. I mean, I. I used to love shows like Ragtime and Hairspray. And I think that I wrote this show because in America there's this massive black and white divide, you know, And I know in other countries they have different sort of prejudices and different forms of like upstairs, downstairs, but in America, it's feels sometimes like we're still in the 30s or the 40s. You know, and when you look at. My parents didn't get to go to school. That was integrated and that wasn't that long ago. You know, my, my mother was the help and she picked cotton. And when I was younger, my grandmother would make us go to the fields and pick cotton and work in the fields because she felt like it was so important. She would always say, it's really important for you to know where you came from and where you could go back to. And. And every time she would say where you could go back to, I'd be like, that's not possible. You know, this is crazy, but as time has gone on, I've realized, like, it's not out of the. For things to go in reverse. And I love Black Mirror episodes and I love things that like, challenge your brain to imagine what if to. I wanted to write a show that when people left the theater, they oftentimes I leave and I'm like, okay, am I going to go to Red Lobster or Applebee's tonight? And I wanted a show that made you be like, I want to sit down and talk about this. And that's what Benjamin Button did for me. Every time I left, I'd have to take like 15 minutes to be able to speak again because when I start crying, I'm like, I am just speechless. But I wanted to write a show that would be thought provoking. And I've always loved musicals that were sung through and I'd never challenged myself to have conversations and tell stories. So I didn't even know if it would be possible for me to write an opera of sorts. But I feel like music. And I have so many thoughts. I'm very adhd, not self diagnosed. I'm like severely adhd. And so I was like, I think that this would be a great way to scratch that edge, to create motifs, have the characters explain themselves and express themselves through music only. Those were the things that I knew going into it were. I knew what story I wanted to tell and it was a fictional story based on a lot of things. I mean, Aida was one of my. That was the first Broadway show or the first Broadway show that I saw. Not on Broadway, the tour of it, but that story, like was so I connected with that story so much and I just absolutely loved that score. And so that was my first inspiration for, for this show.
- [35:11]
Mickey Jo
Wow. And you've been able to bring in so many incredible talents into this cast. Remarkable people, some of whom you've worked with before. But it's a really amazing company that's Working on the show. Who was, Was there anyone in particular that was like, who has blown your mind the most that they are singing your words that they are in this show?
- [35:33]
Todrick Hall
I would have to say Ayanna is that person. Ayanna George. She plays Ethel. My grandmother's name was Ethel, and when I hired her, I told her the name of the, the role, and she was sort of like, I've been doing MJ for three years. I don't know if I want to go back into another musical. And I said, well, the character's name is Ethel. And she said, that was my mother's name. And so we immediately had that connection. But I remember sitting in the audience with seeing MJ on Broadway while it was like, it had just freshly opened. And I'm not, like, the, the biggest fan of jukebox musicals, to be honest. I, I, I like some of them, but oftentimes I don't enjoy them. And people said MJ was great, so I was like, okay, I'll go see what it's about. And it was one of the first times I had been that blown away by someone's voice. She just had such. You'll hear tonight because you're seeing the show tonight. Her voice is just so anointed, magical, like, just otherworldly to me. And it brought me to tears, and I, like, was, like, sobbing. Like, like Mufasa just died level tears. Like, it was, I was un, it was uncontrollable. And. And then I was like, I'm gonna go find her afterwards. So at intermission, I went and looked her up, and she had already followed me, and I DMed her, and I was like, I'm here at the show, and I'm obsessed with you. And she was like, the way that I listen to straight out of Oz all the time on repeat. My family loves you. And I got to meet her after the show. So sometimes when I'm on stage and she's singing the song that her main song that she sings to me, I have this pinch me moment where I just can't believe that I'm in a privileged enough position to be able to, like, hand pick people who are Broadway stars. I mean, Rachel Tucker, being in the show, it's just. It's incredible. You know, my dream was always to be in Wicked, and I would have never dreamed big enough to think that I would have stars of Wicked singing my music ever someday. So I'm just a theater nerd that is, like, losing his mind that this is happening. And I don't Have a marketing team. We don't have, like, anybody who's buying a ticket is. Is just somebody who stumbled across the show somehow from social media. And I used to be, like, so obsessed with numbers. I remember I did a tour straight out of Oz, and every show wasn't sold out. And I would be so depressed about that. And then I went through so many things in life and cancellations being some of those things, and now, like, I would. I didn't think that there was ever going to be a time I would get back up on my feet and be able to, like, thrive again and be able to, like, create and not be afraid to be on stage. I turned down Mighty Hoopla multiple times because I was like, people are going to be disappointed that I'm there. I just don't want to do it. And then I was like, todrick, you, there are people who are supporters of yours like you. You shouldn't be focused on the people who aren't. You should focus on delivering great quality work to the people who do. You should learn from the things that they're saying sometimes, even if it's not 100% factual. There's a nugget of truth in there. So take that. Learn from it, Grow from it. Be a better version of yourself today than you were yesterday. And that's what I'm trying to do every day. So to be able to go out on stage now, I don't care if that's. There's 12 people in the audience. I'm just so grateful that I'm in this position, that I have gotten to come to this country and audition all these talented people, everybody who is on stage, their voices are just incredible. I mean, they say yes and to every song. I write a song, and they make it better. And Rory, who did the lighting, I worked with him on burlesque and fell in love with him. He, like, got me through that tech process, which was so stressful because I'm trying to choose my words carefully. But I was like, if I were a straight white man, people would be listening to what I have to say. But there was so much friction, and every hurdle that I had to jump was, like, 10 times harder than it would have been if it were someone else in that position. And I felt like I was being as respectful as I possibly could be. But there were people who, even if it wasn't intentional, did not respect me because to them, I didn't look like what they felt like a director should look like. And that was a really difficult struggle for me. And Rory was one of those.
- [39:32]
Mickey Jo
He.
- [39:32]
Todrick Hall
I thought I was like being crazy. I'm like, are they always like this? Do they just ignore the director, the way he's talking to them? And Rory came to me and he was like, I think you're doing such a great job. And I just need to let you know that the way that you're being treated is not the norm. Like, these people are being disrespectful to you because they don't respect you and they don't think you're going to be able to get this job up. So I just shout out to everybody who is black and making art out there. Because people don't consider that when they look at, when they're reviewing the show, that every door that you knock on sometimes there's a subconscious bias there that people are like, I'm gonna make you jump even higher hurdle than you've already had to jump to get to that point. Because I don't think you can do it. I don't. I've never seen someone like you do it. You don't look like what someone should look like doing it. You don't dress like a director, you don't sound like a director. You don't have this on your resume. So I'm not going to treat you as I would treat. Treat another director. I saw how they treated Nick Winston and I did not get that same treatment when I was in the room. And that's no shade. That is just my. That's my truth and my reality. And so I. I appreciated working with Rory so much. He is. It's the kindest person. If anybody out there can hire him to do their lighting, you would. It's just a dream delight of a person to work with. And he's also so talented and he. The way he's come to the table and brought my show to life is just been tremendous. But yeah, I just. It's been crazy, girl.
- [40:59]
Mickey Jo
It feels like a very sort of full circle and fulfilling moment to then be telling a story that you have completely birthed creatively. That is a story about blackness. That is a story about being gay along, like that's all sort of embroiled in it. And you know, there are shows that do each of those things, but there aren't a lot of roles. I guess Lola in Kinky Boots was a big moment because a lot of performers got to exist within that space and explore femininity. But there aren't a lot of canonical roles. I mean, we had this conversation when Billy Porter did The emcee and people talked about this distortion of the material, but how many other roles are there where you explore both of those ideas simultaneously?
- [41:45]
Todrick Hall
I think we live in a world that generally likes to put things in such clear boxes. Sure, I try to take all the feedback that I get from the show, but someone came to me the other day and said, is this a show about blackness, or is it a show about, you know, classism? Is it a show about queerness? And I don't understand what it's like to have one conflict, because I am a double minority. I experience being black and being queer simultaneously every single day. So the fact that.
- [42:13]
Mickey Jo
That.
- [42:13]
Todrick Hall
To someone else, that seems like a convoluted story, like, we should have a show about blackness and a show about queerness, but we can't do a show that, like, deals with both of those topics is strange to me. And maybe the feedback, I just am misinterpreting the notes, But I've had a couple of people say that to me, and. And. And I don't know how to write from, like, an a. From a place of just being black or just being queer, because I'm both of those things, and they both have. Have played a huge part in shaping the person that I am today. So I love that we have those conversations because, yeah, I think that Billy's interpretation of the emcee was his own interpretation. And I think that we take so many liberties on so many roles, but it feels like sometimes when someone who looks a certain way does it, we subconsciously, like, dissect it more than we would have if it were someone else. When Emma Watson got Bell. I'm probably gonna get canceled for saying this, but what's new? When she got the role of Belle, I was like, okay, great. I mean, that's typical. There was no outburst from her doing that role, because to everybody in society, they felt like she deserved that role, and she looked like a Belle should look. The fact that Halle to me for the role of playing a Disney princess, when it comes to singing, dancing, acting ability, the requirements of playing a Disney princess, I feel like she is more qualified than Emma, and she was fantastic. But nobody would question Emma the way they would question Halle to play that role.
- [43:43]
Mickey Jo
Not on principle.
- [43:44]
Todrick Hall
Not. No, no. And I'm like, why would we. Why would we accept Emma's performance as Belle? Which was, like, it was fine, but, like, it wasn't anything sensational, in my personal opinion. I wouldn't say, take the role away from her, but, like, I think that Halle's what she had to go through was just. It was heart wrenching to watch. And I was so grateful that people, you know, like Jodi Benson and Melissa McCarthy, the things that they went and said in the press were really profound. And I thought the way that they handled it was really professional. And I love the way that they shielded her in that situation because that was really hard. But that's what we all go through every day. And I don't know, you probably go through things like that as well. Just being queer and being in this space. I don't know if you feel like you face any of that in your
- [44:34]
Mickey Jo
career, but, I mean, there's commentary and there's a certain amount of just articulating opinions online that will get big responses from people and something similar to what you said before or the advice from Bob the Drag Queen. Suddenly the breakthrough moment for me that stopped me kind of trying to come back at all of the negative commentary was if these people, and it's not going to happen, but if you managed to convince them and they turned around and said, you know what? No, I actually like you now. Can we be friends? My answer would be no, because I lost respect for you the first time. And so. So it's. Why am I trying to win over people who I don't like anyway?
- [45:09]
Todrick Hall
Preach. Preach, Mickey. Preach, Mickey.
- [45:11]
Mickey Jo
So there's that.
- [45:12]
Todrick Hall
I love it.
- [45:13]
Mickey Jo
You have announced publicly that you are moving to New York. We've enjoyed having you in London. Is the plan that you're gonna take midnight there with you? Is there an aspiration that we could see midnight on Broadway?
- [45:26]
Todrick Hall
That is. My ultimate dream, is to have midnight on Broadway. But it's a scary climate right now, doing musical theater, I learned a lot of it from you. Like, I think so many producers are scared of taking risks. And my show is not based on anything that people would know. It doesn't have existing ip, it doesn't have a score. You know, that is music that people recognize. So I'm going to New York because I've lived in New York five times, but only when I was doing a Broadway show. And the day after I finished the show, I leave, it's like I did a cruise ship contract there. I've never learned how to navigate the trains. I've never felt like it was my place to live. But when I posted on social media that I went there, like Natasha Bedingfield, randomly, who I don't even know, we just would. We did Mass Singer together, but I never even knew who she was. When we're standing next to each other. But Peppermint and Bob and all these people were like, welcome home. And I got like teary eyed about that because I've always wanted to consider New York home, but it just has never felt like home to me. So I'm excited to go there and like, like I was in LA for almost 15 years and I think that I've just sort of not outgrown LA because I still want to live there at some chapter in my life, but I want to be immersed in theater. That was the reason why I started doing a YouTube channel anyway, because I love theater and I love Disney and Beyonce and wizard of Oz. And I was like, I'm going to make a YouTube channel for all the people who like the same things I like. But I just, I want to be around theater and be able to go see Broadway show. Yeah, I just want to be able to like hop to the theater because it's the happiest I ever am and is when I'm sitting down watching theater.
- [47:03]
Mickey Jo
Yeah, me too.
- [47:04]
Todrick Hall
Yeah, me too. Oh, I know. I can't believe that we got to do this.
- [47:07]
Mickey Jo
I'm very grateful for the opportunity. Thank you so much for saying yes and I cannot wait to come and see the show this evening.
- [47:13]
Todrick Hall
Yay. All right, let's do it.
- [47:15]
Mickey Jo
Thank you so much.
- [47:15]
Todrick Hall
Thank you.
- [47:16]
Mickey Jo
Thank you for taking the time for 10 more seconds. I'm Mickey Jo Theatre. Oh my God. Hey, thanks for watching. Have a subscribe
- [47:30]
Stephen
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- [47:48]
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- [48:16]
Stephen
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