Growing Together, Not Apart, In Parenthood

Summary

Podcast Summary: Mind If We Talk? – “Growing Together, Not Apart, In Parenthood”
Host: Srila Roy Green (licensed therapist)
Guests: Shawn Johnson (Olympic gymnast), Andrew East (former NFL athlete), with expert commentary from Sunny Williams, LMHC (BetterHelp therapist)
Date: May 21, 2026

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Episode Overview

This episode explores the often-unspoken challenges couples face as they navigate parenthood: how the transition to becoming parents changes not just daily routines and identities, but also fundamentally shifts a couple’s dynamic. Srila Roy Green hosts a deeply candid conversation with Shawn Johnson and Andrew East, who share their own journey through marriage, miscarriage, parenthood, and postpartum depression. The episode concludes with mental health expert Sunny Williams providing practical tools, insights, and clinical perspectives for coping with these complex transitions.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Family of Origin and Formative Lessons

[02:52] – [05:20]

• Shawn and Andrew reflect on their family backgrounds and how these shaped their views on marriage and parenting.
• Shawn: Single child, parents married young amid hardship, modeled perseverance:
  “Seeing them day after day fight for each other...gave me the gift of saying, like, we're gonna fight. It's gonna be really hard...But you know what? I'm never gonna leave. I will be here forever.” [03:32]
• Andrew: Middle of five, close-knit, dynamic family with visible, expressive love:
  “What I have learned growing up is...different things will happen...and you do dynamically move around in different ways.” [04:14]

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2. Unplanned Pregnancy and Initial Fears

[05:46] – [08:14]

• Shawn describes the fear and isolation of discovering her first pregnancy while Andrew was engrossed in his NFL career.
  • Delayed telling Andrew for a week, wrestled with fears about disrupting his ambitions and not living up to her supporting role.
  • “I have never been so terrified in my life...It scared me that I wasn't in some way being the best supporter.” [07:35]
• Andrew’s reaction was straightforward:
  “Holy smokes. She's pregnant. Am I ready to be a dad? That was pretty much it.” [08:05]
• They jointly recall the night after: mixed laughter, tears, and brainstorming baby names.

Memorable Quote:

• Andrew: “The readiness doesn't come before the commitment...Readiness as a result of the commitment.” [08:36]

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3. Miscarriage: Grief, Blame, and Relationship Strain

[09:31] – [14:13]

• Shawn describes the emotional devastation of miscarrying the day after telling Andrew, coupled with self-blame and confusion.
  • Suffered from the misconception that her past (eating disorders, career stress) caused the loss.
• OBGYN’s crucial support:
  “It's nothing that you did. You did not cause this. It is nothing you did wrong.” [11:07] — a message that stayed with her.
• Lasting grief, identity confusion, and difficulty expressing the depth of pain to Andrew.
  • “I had felt so much grief, and I didn't know how to share it.” [12:06]
• Andrew reflects on not fully understanding her internalization of blame at the time and the identity disruption he also felt.
  • Power struggle emerged after miscarriage: Shawn’s urge to try for another child vs. Andrew’s need for emotional processing.

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4. Communication Changes & Strategy After Children

[14:56] – [18:12]

• The jump from independent lives to a unified “amoeba” with the arrival of their first child brought friction and exposed differences.
  • “We actually have to be completely unified. And it was a huge transition for us.” —Shawn [14:56]
  • “Anytime one person pushes out...it has an effect on the rest of the group.” —Andrew [15:32]
• Importance of formal, structured communication emerged—daily “bev time” check-ins, and weekly planning sessions on Sunday nights.
  • “Your habits get exposed in a really unique way with parenting…Our strategy has been to really be highly structured and rigid with our communication.” —Andrew [17:08]

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5. Postpartum Depression: Subtle Onset, Feeling Lost, and Seeking Help

[18:48] – [23:59]

• Shawn shares her experience with postpartum depression after their third child:
  • Unexpected onset; feelings of drowning while focusing solely on the baby's needs, to the exclusion of her own.
  • Overwhelming guilt for not bonding or enjoying this baby the way she had with her other children.
  • “I could feel myself drowning. But I didn’t know how to help or ask for help for myself.” [19:26]
• Feeling misunderstood:
  “Oh, the whole time. I knew I was supposed to be loving the baby phase, but…there wasn't a single point that I felt I could be happy about.” —Shawn [20:51]
• Andrew’s perspective: Frustration and helplessness in sensing something was wrong but not knowing how to help; defaulted to solutions instead of listening, until the realization that professional help was needed.
  • First steps toward healing came when Andrew insisted on therapy.
  • “I was literally completely out of my depth…and we needed a professional perspective on this.” —Andrew [23:41]
  • Therapy was described as the “greatest gift” to their marriage.

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6. Role of Therapy and Proactive Relationship Care

[24:40] – [25:35]

• Therapy was initially a family requirement before marriage, normalized as part of their relationship.
  • Shifted from being reactive (only seeking counseling in crisis) to proactive, treating therapy as “maintenance.”
• Articulated the benefit of “putting your issues out on the table”—making them less personal and easier to process together.

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7. Advice for Parents and Couples

[25:46] – [27:41]

• Weekly date nights highlighted as essential—intentionally scheduled, considered “immovable.”
• Leaning on a support system (family, friends) was critical.
• Shawn: Struggled with self-doubt as a perfectionist, worried if she was the “best mom for my children, the best wife.” [26:51]
• Andrew: The “all-in” mindset—commitment as an anchor during highs, lows, and unforeseen changes.
  • “We made a commitment to each other 10 years ago and then life got really, really messy…rather than ever question the commitment, it was always a who do we need to go find? What do we need to do to help preserve it?” —Shawn [28:45]

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8. Expert Insights with Sunny Williams (BetterHelp Therapist)

[30:56] – [55:30]

a. Navigating Life Transitions

• Major life events (e.g., unplanned pregnancy) trigger uncertainty and sacrifice; recommends open communication about fears and the willingness to take turns sacrificing for each other.

b. Miscarriage and Grief

• Grieving miscarriage comes with a tendency for self-blame; “It’s common to seek meaning for loss, but in the vast majority of cases, it is not anyone’s fault.” [35:11]
• Partners may grieve differently—sometimes tensions arise if one is ready to try again while the other is not.

c. PMADs: Perinatal Mood and Anxiety Disorders

• Postpartum depression is just one of several PMADs (includes anxiety, OCD, in rare cases psychosis).
  • Key warning sign: “baby blues” that last more than two weeks.
  • Signs for partners to watch: withdrawal from self or baby, excessive control, obsessiveness, lack of self-care.

d. Supporting a Partner

• Offer support through direct and gentle communication; don’t make it too open-ended.
  • Example: “I’ve noticed you’re not letting the baby out of your sight. Is there something I can help with?”
• Caring for oneself is part of caring for the baby.

e. Relationship Shifts & Maintaining Connection

• Couples often underestimate the impact of children on connection—most conversations become about the baby.
• Schedule “Joy”—intentional time for partnership/romance, even if it means putting it on the calendar.
  • “You have to be intentional about those things. You have to put it on your calendar…you protect that time fiercely and you make it happen.” —Sunny [48:37]

f. Tools and Rituals for Resilience

• Pre-child exercises: Discuss “How do we want to parent?” and “Do we want a baby, or do we want to build a family (long view)?”
• “Who are we at 3am?”: A weekly exercise simulating sleep deprivation and stress, to see how communication and connection hold up under strain before the baby arrives.

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Notable Quotes & Moments

• Shawn: “I could feel myself drowning…But I didn’t know how to help or ask for help for myself…” [19:26]
• Andrew: “The readiness doesn't come before the commitment. Readiness is a result of the commitment.” [08:36]
• OBGYN (paraphrased by Shawn): “It's nothing that you did. You did not cause this.” [11:07]
• Srila (to couple): “Those moments of self doubt are somehow extrapolated and amplified when we go through these significant life changes.” [27:23]
• Sunny: “You can always revisit your vows…How can I show up for you now?” [50:08]

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Expert Tips & Tools (Sunny Williams)

• Proactive Preparation: Discuss parenting philosophies, expectations, and division of roles before the baby arrives.
• Communication: Schedule regular check-ins post-baby (“bev time,” weekly planning); direct, nonjudgmental conversations.
• Support During Postpartum: Know-risk factors; partners should watch for withdrawal, obsessive behaviors, overwhelming emotions; reach out early for professional help.
• Preserving Connection: Schedule joy/intimacy time, protect relationship rituals, leverage support networks.
• Managing Identity Shift: Grieve the loss of former selves, support each other’s growth into “new people” as parents.

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Timestamps for Key Sections

• Family Lessons / Background: [02:52] – [05:20]
• Unplanned Pregnancy Fears: [05:46] – [08:14]
• Miscarriage & Grief: [09:31] – [14:13]
• Communication After Kids: [14:56] – [18:12]
• Postpartum Depression: [18:48] – [23:59]
• Therapy’s Role: [24:40] – [25:35]
• Advice for Parents: [25:46] – [27:41]
• Expert Segment - Tools/PMADs/Preparation: [30:56] – [55:30]

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Overall Tone & Takeaways

The episode is warm, vulnerable, and honest, blending firsthand anecdotes with pragmatic, therapeutic advice. Listeners are encouraged to normalize struggle, proactively nurture their relationship, and not hesitate to seek help—be it professional or within their support system. The commitment to “growing together, not apart” is underlined as both a daily choice and a guiding principle for couples at any stage of parenthood.

Transcript

[Shawn Johnson]

I remember taking a pregnancy test and I remember thinking, I can't tell him yet. Is this what he wants? I just didn't know because he was chasing this dream in the NFL. I was like, I can't throw this on him as he's going for three of the most important, you know, tryouts that he had. And so I remember I waited to tell him and I have never been so terrified in my life. Hey, can I talk to you about something? I wish you knew.

[Srila Roy Green]

I wish you knew how lonely menopause felt.

[Andrew East]

I wish you knew why it's so

[Sunny Williams]

hard for men to share their feelings. I wish you knew what it was

[Srila Roy Green]

like growing up in a low income family.

[Shawn Johnson]

I wish you knew how hard it

[Sunny Williams]

was not having a college degree. I wish you knew what it's like to be me.

[Srila Roy Green]

Welcome back to Mind if We Talk, where you get to be a fly on the wall for mini therapy sessions and learn some mental health tips in the process. I'm your host, Srila Roy Green, a licensed mental health counselor with over 19 years of experience. Today we're talking about one of the most beautiful and quietly destabilizing transitions a couple can go through becoming parents. Having a child changes everything. Your schedule, your sleep, your sense of self, and often your relationship, too. You and your partner suddenly have to make room for someone new, someone who needs constant care and attention. And yet we don't often talk about what a child can really do to a marriage. Those experiences tend to stay behind closed doors. But the couples who fare the best are not the ones who never struggle. They're the ones who find ways to stay connected through the struggle. Today we're speaking with Shawn Johnson, the renowned American gymnast and Olympic gold medalist, and Andrew East, a former NFL athlete who's played for the Seattle Seahawks and Oakland Raiders. Sean and Andrew have been married for 10 years and are parents to three children. But their journey into parenthood wasn't always straightforward. It began with an unplanned pregnancy, followed by a miscarriage, and later a difficult experience with postpartum depression that neither of them fully saw coming. The two were deeply candid and vulnerable in sharing their parenthood journey with me. Later in our episode, I'll sit Down with better Help, licensed therapist Sunny Williams. We'll talk about what's really happening psychologically and emotionally when couples navigate pregnancy loss, postpartum, and the identity shift that comes with becoming parents. And we'll get into some practical tools you can use, too. Let's get to talking. Thank you both again for joining us today Shawn and Andrew, it's a real pleasure and honor to meet you both and have this opportunity to get to know you both. Want to start off by talking a little bit about both your families and your family dynamics growing up. How do you feel that influenced your perspective on marriage, children, building your own family?

[Shawn Johnson]

I actually think that's one of the greatest gifts both of our families gave us. My parents got married when they were 16. They came from very, very troubled and very hard upbringings, and they were the escape from that for each other. They met when they were 12, and they had a hard marriage. They. They fought, and they had so many things to work through. They end up having me when they were 32, and I'm only child, and. And. But I never saw them quit on each other ever. And it was the greatest gift I was ever given as a child, because even to today, they. We live on the same property. We see them every single day. They are some of my, like, absolute best friends in life, which comes with its hardships as well. But in raising a family, seeing them day after day after day fight for each other, even though it wasn't always easy, I think gave me the gift in our relationship of saying, like, we're gonna fight. It's gonna be really hard. We're gonna go through a lot of hard things that aren't pretty. But you know what? I'm never. I'm never gonna leave. I will be here forever.

[Andrew East]

Yeah. My parents. My parents were high school sweethearts. They met in high school, and then my mom was a cheerleader at Purdue. My dad was a football player at Purdue. And honestly, they displayed a pretty amazing love in our family. And up until my dad passed, which was a couple years ago, and still, you could see in my mom this. This just deep love that she had. And I grew up the middle of five kids. And it's interesting, you know, that word family dynamic, I think, is kind of packaged as. As a word, and it's just like, yeah, what's your relationship with your family? But what I have learned growing up is like, it is. It is really dynamic with the families, and, like, you know, different things will happen, and you're. You're pretty fixed with this group of people. And so, you know, whether it's grief or a transition or some family drama, like, you kind of. You do dynamically move around in different kind of ways. Yeah. And then it's kind of. It's been fun to introduce Sean into that as well.

[Sunny Williams]

I love it.

[Andrew East]

Coming from the only child world.

[Shawn Johnson]

Yeah.

[Srila Roy Green]

Yeah. It definitely Is not unusual to hear, like, only child. Child of many, you know, coming together and then finding that, like, balance. Right. I am going to pivot a bit. You were married in 2016, and later that year, Sean, you found out that you were expecting. Can you share a little bit about how it was for you sharing that news with. With Andrew?

[Shawn Johnson]

So we got married in April of 2016. I then a couple months later jumped on a four or five month performance tour where we weren't together. He was bouncing around the NFL. We were basically living separate lives for a full year.

[Srila Roy Green]

Wow.

[Shawn Johnson]

Come back in. I think it was actually in 2017, if I remember.

[Andrew East]

October 2017.

[Shawn Johnson]

Yeah. And I remember taking a pregnancy test. And this was not in the conversations yet. And it was as we were running out the door. He was running out for three back to back tryouts. Wow. In different places in the country. I was heading out for a press tour, and I remember thinking, I can't tell him yet because he was so ambitious and chasing this dream in the NFL. I was like, I can't throw this on him, as he's going for three of the most important, you know, tryouts that he had. And so I remember I waited to tell him a week. I flew to New York City. I retook all these tests just to make sure. And I have never been so terrified in my life because, again, we hadn't talked about it. That wasn't the thing. And I remember calling my best friend who's a therapist, and she talked me off the cliff of just, like, you know, understanding the situation. And a week goes by. I convince Andrew to come home early. He's gone through his three tryouts. Didn't want to tell him over the phone, but I'm sure you kind of already figured it out. And I remember when I walked in just feeling so scared of, is this what he wants? Is this gonna ruin his ambition? Is this gonna, like. I just didn't know. I got to fulfill my dream at 16, which is crazy. And I know that's very abnormal and very, you know, different timing, but every single person in my circle sacrificed their world to kind of help me see my dream through. And I felt like it was my job to do that for you. And so when I got pregnant, it scared me that I wasn't in some way being the best supporter. And I didn't know how to, like, break that news to him. But you handled it beautifully.

[Andrew East]

You had clearly way more thoughts about that situation than I did.

[Shawn Johnson]

As does any woman.

[Andrew East]

Holy smokes. She's pregnant. Am I ready to be a dad? That was pretty much it.

[Shawn Johnson]

I'd been sitting in my thoughts and spiraling for about a week. I was like, how is this gonna happen?

[Andrew East]

Sat on the couch the whole night, though. And we like, laughing, crying, brainstorming, looking up pictures and, you know, trying to come up with names.

[Srila Roy Green]

Yeah, yeah, it's.

[Shawn Johnson]

It's a.

[Srila Roy Green]

It's one of the most conflicting moments, and I think in anybody's life is simultaneously joyful and scared to death.

[Andrew East]

The readiness doesn't come before the commitment. It's not a preface to it. A readiness as a result of the commitment. You're not ready to be a parrot. Right. Like, we were. We knew nothing. You don't know the bottle, the food.

[Shawn Johnson]

Ever babysit before?

[Andrew East]

But then you. You like, you know, do you jump into the water and you figure it out?

[Srila Roy Green]

I hear you 100% on that, and I think every parent listening is going to identify with that for sure. I do want to touch on something deeper, though, based off of this specific conversation. Is that the miscarriage that you experienced and that loss. I have no doubt that there are many people who are going to listen to this and feel validation from hearing from someone else what that experience may have been like for them. How do you feel it impacted your relationship to navigate that difficult time?

[Shawn Johnson]

It was really difficult. So I had waited that week to tell Andrew, and then we had talked all night and finally gone to bed and then woke up, and we were mitten. We were just like, okay, this is happening. This is what we're doing. We got into the planning process, whatever, and it was like, mid that day that I miscarried. I. I mean, nobody prepares you for it. I don't even know how to. There's nowhere to place blame here other than I didn't know that miscarriage was that prevalent and that normal, and that, you know, that a lot of people go through that. And so in my mind, it wasn't something that ever crossed my mind as a possibility of happening. So when it happened that day, I was very, very confused. And so I had to figure out what I did wrong. And in my mind, it was. Was it. Was I too stressed about the fear of having a kid and did I abuse my body too much from gymnastics? And I had suffered from eating disorders for years, and I had probably. I had, you know, abused diet pills. And in my head, it was like all of these things that I failed at already, and being a mother that, like, caused it, and I was just in such a sad place, and I didn't know how to voice any of that to him. We hadn't even, like, fully unpacked all of that baggage that I had gone through. We had. I don't. I didn't even know how to explain

[Sunny Williams]

a lot of that.

[Shawn Johnson]

But one of the greatest gifts that I had in that miscarriage. We went. We were in LA at the time. I didn't even have an OB GYN in la. But we got connected with one who was a gift. And I can hear his voice in my head, and I still hear it to this day. But I walked in and we went through all the testing and everything. I remember he brought us into his office and he said, if you hear anything, I need you to look me in the eyes and hear this. It's nothing that you did. You did not cause this. It is nothing you did wrong. And I just remember bawling. And I remember him saying again, he's like, do you hear me? Do I need to say this again? And I just remember him saying that. And I don't know if I. Even to this day, I believe it. I don't know why I'm getting emotional. I haven't gotten emotional about this in a long time. Um, I went through many other miscarriages in between children, but I don't know what it was about the first one. I remember the due date. I remember when it happened, and it was. It was just really sad. And it.

[Srila Roy Green]

It caused

[Shawn Johnson]

a lot of tension between us. Only in the sense of. I didn't know how to voice that I needed help, and I didn't know how to voice this idea and this feeling that I felt like I lost a baby. And explaining that to a spouse who hasn't held a baby and hasn't had a baby in their. In their stomach. And like, all these things was very hard. I had felt so much grief, and I didn't know how to share it.

[Andrew East]

We haven't talked about this in a while. Yeah, I'm kind of emotional thinking about this. So much has changed. It's almost like reflecting back on a whole different side of life. And there's so much has happened. The doctor that we're talking about has since passed away. And, like, just you recounting that moment. Yeah, I'll never forget that.

[Shawn Johnson]

Yeah.

[Andrew East]

But it's also, you know, it's. We've. This is now eight or nine years ago, whenever the season. We talked about this a lot. What's. What is so confusing, I think, caused some of the tension is like, all those things she just voiced. I Don't think you. You did voice those back then or could of all the. The personal blame you were. You're, you know, thinking it was all your fault. And then there's also, like, this new identity that you almost assume. Like, I was talking about, like, okay, all right, we're doing the parenting thing, and I'm. I'm. I'm a dad. I'm playing dad mode now. And then. And then that doesn't pan out like you think it does. But your. Your identity doesn't really ship back once you take that leap, so it's just all very confusing. And Sean was ready to. To try for another kid right after that. And I was, like, still trying to make sure that we had processed through it. So it was just. There was a lot of dynamics going on.

[Shawn Johnson]

We were butting heads for a while after the miscarriage of, what do we do now? Does Light just go back to looking exactly like it did? In my mind, I didn't know how to process that, because in my mind, I felt like a mom. And I was like, I want to be a mom. And so we were just having, like, heavy conversations frequently about, well, when in two months and three months and not. And I was wanting to make sense of it.

[Srila Roy Green]

And I think what you're talking about is so common when you experience a collective joint grief like that. And again, we can't anticipate grief every time. And then to go through that, I don't think there, again, is a playbook or a rulebook around how you're supposed to navigate that other than to just navigate it. And I think you both spoke beautifully, beautifully to that and how difficult it was. And I really appreciate you both being so vulnerable.

[Andrew East]

Sometimes it is easier to talk to a stranger about these complicated things you're going through.

[Shawn Johnson]

Thank you.

[Srila Roy Green]

100%. Want to get to something. I hope a little bit more lighthearted, but doesn't have to be. And talking about becoming parents, how has your communication style changed the way it

[Shawn Johnson]

changed the most after our first kid was just going from individuals that led very separate lives who were married before we had a kid. And then all of a sudden we had a kid, and it was like, oh, we actually have to talk through everything. We actually have to be completely unified. And it was a huge transition for us.

[Andrew East]

Girl, it still is. What do you mean? We are learning so much.

[Shawn Johnson]

Well, I mean, I think we both agree with the concept of, like, we have to work on communication. I don't think we knew we needed to work on it until after we

[Andrew East]

had Our first kid when we first got married. It's a fun, hey, I'm now roommates with my best friend. And yeah, we're married and we get to do stuff together. And then you have a kid and you become like an amoeba. Like, you really become a group that anytime one person pushes out or does their own thing, it like has an effect on the rest of the group. Like you're, you're tied together in a totally different way. I think it took us honestly probably like a year into having our second child before we really formalized our strategy on how we were going to make it through this in a, in a together fashion and like not have this power struggle. And I feel like it's pretty common to hear how important communication is in marriage. And you know, your communication is key. We, I did not necessarily grow up with that as an example. My parents had this amazing love. My dad was totally like this rogue individualist and you know, he was definitely the ask for forgiveness and not permission type. That's kind of my natural demeanor too. And I'm like, yeah, let's, I'm opportunistic. Let's do this. I want to say yes. I'm excited about everything. It's so much fun. And that really had like an erosive effect on Sean, I think, and was, was tough. Still is. You know, your habits get exposed in a really unique way with parenting and your stylistic differences. And then you're like, okay, what a. Like, I didn't know you were so into organic food. And now that's all you want to feed our baby. And now you're like super upset that I'm not. Whatever. You know, there's a bajillion different cases like that. But our strategy has been to like really be highly structured and rigid with our communication. So we have a lot of check in points which, you know, it's not whimsically romantic or like really fun, but for us, I think it's been a really important step to take just to make sure that we are being seen, that we do give space for our friendship and our romance to flourish. And so every night after we put the kids back, we have what we call bev time. And we'll have little 5 minute check ins of like, hey, let's debrief today or do we need to talk any logistics for tomorrow? Weekly on Sunday nights we do like a kind of a planning session and like a broader zoom out anytime. There's like patterns that we see that are frustrating within each other. It's like we give those a month to kind of say, oh, is this still persistent? Are they still doing this? And if so, then you can say, yeah, this has been a pattern I've seen over the last month. Let's talk about as opposed to just speaking the moment of like you did that and it's so annoying. It's like you got to make it through some of those small emotional annoyances.

[Srila Roy Green]

It's easy to like automatically get on the same page when you're just two and it changes the entire. Again, you said this earlier. Dynamic. It is always dynamic and it's a lot, it's a lot to navigate and manage all at once. And I think you both spoke beautifully to that. Gonna backtrack a little bit and talk a little bit about postpartum. You know, a lot changes between from pregnancy to giving birth to not just our body, but our psychological and mental and emotional selves. So how did you both navigate that time for healing for you, Sean?

[Shawn Johnson]

We had a wonderful system in place. Andrew came up with these like non negotiable things that I would have to do every day as far as like getting sunlight. We'd have to watch a con, like a funny movie. And it was, it was really, really sweet. I had very typical challenges with both the first and second as far as like figuring out new identity and trying to figure out the new rhythm of life, all of that. I went into our third pregnancy and our third baby thinking it was just like every other. It was truly the first time I think I ever really understood postpartum depression. Our third baby is the greatest blessing. And he's amazing, but he was just so different than the other two. He wasn't eating, he wasn't sleeping. He was a colicky baby. There were like so many things that I had never dealt with and I didn't realize as I was taking care of him that I was losing control of myself. And I remember having like a really like out of body experience. And I remember telling this to Andrew after I had gotten through it, but I said I didn't know. I don't even remember how I worded it, but I could feel myself drowning. But I didn't know how to help or ask for help for myself because I knew it was my job to figure out how to help my baby first. And it was like by the time I, I could help our baby, I had lost control to where I didn't even know how to work myself back to normal with where I was. It was, it feels like such a blur and it's probably a postpartum that I remember the least, which is odd. And it makes me feel so many emotions now. I feel guilty that I didn't enjoy it as much as the others, and I wish I remembered it more. And it caused so much tension between us because I didn't know how to ask for help, and I didn't even know it was wrong.

[Srila Roy Green]

Were there moments where you ever felt misunderstood?

[Shawn Johnson]

Oh, the whole time.

[Srila Roy Green]

The whole time, I knew I was

[Shawn Johnson]

supposed to, like, be loving the baby phase, but there was. There wasn't a single point that I felt I could be happy about.

[Srila Roy Green]

Mm.

[Shawn Johnson]

Whereas, like, with our infant, I felt so troubled and concerned and obsessed with this idea of I had to help him and I had to get life figured out for him. We had to figure out the feeding situation.

[Srila Roy Green]

We had to figure out the sleeping situation.

[Shawn Johnson]

I knew with different opinions that what people were saying wasn't right. And, like, it was a mom gut thing of, like, I just had. We just have to figure it out. And I just had to keep going. But in obsessing so much over the baby, I wasn't able to go play with my big kids, and I was missing them, and I felt like I was being a bad mom to them. And then if I ever had that time from the baby, I'd go play with the kids. But then I'd be like, now I'm not being a good wife. And it just. I felt so completely misunderstood in every category. And then it would be like, why aren't you asking for help? And it's like, I don't know where to start.

[Srila Roy Green]

Andrew, hearing this now. What are your thoughts? What are your reactions to that?

[Andrew East]

This is not really how the communication or conversation went in the moment.

[Srila Roy Green]

Sure.

[Andrew East]

And it's. It's disorienting. It's discouraging. It's. You know, you. You start questioning as a partner, you're like, okay, I. I just don't know what to do. What. What can I do? And now I think just. I probably didn't prioritize the softness or the, you know, just the, hey, let me sit here and listen as well as I could have, because I still was like, okay, well, let's. Let's go do this thing. Let's go get you sunlight or, you know, whatever, because I'm trying to find the solution.

[Shawn Johnson]

And anyway, I feel like with the third one, when things started to feel new and not okay, you defaulted to, well, this is what I needed to do to make sure she's fine. And I remember Even having the conversations later of we knew something was wrong, but neither of us could articulate it. And I'll never forget at one point, we had gotten. We had gotten to a point where it had gotten just not normal. I don't want to say it got bad, but, like, we were disconnected, and I was cold and I was distant. And I remember you sat me down and you said, we're going to go to therapy. My very first reaction was I was so emotionless. Like, I. I couldn't feel anything. I didn't have the energy to argue. I didn't have the energy to feel. To even talk about how I felt. And I was just kind of like, okay, great. And it was the very first thing that started healing me, which was, it was the greatest gift you ever gave. Gave to us.

[Andrew East]

I got to a point where it's hard when someone's going through that. Something like that who's close in your life. You don't understand at all. That's when I realized at some point I was literally completely out of my depth. And I need. We need a professional perspective on this.

[Srila Roy Green]

That feeling of helplessness that you're describing is sometimes as awful as it feels in the moment. I think it's also sometimes the best gift that we can get is that sometimes we have to feel helpless to finally ask for help, you know, and. And we don't always know when it's going to happen. And then suddenly that light bulb is like, I feel so helpless. I need help. There's so much there that you've shared with me. And so, you know, you've looked back on a lot of really core memories and difficult experiences that you've had over the last, you know, 10 plus years. Do you feel like therapy or any other tools helped with that?

[Andrew East]

Massively, yes. As health.

[Shawn Johnson]

Massively, yes. Our. Our very first glimpse into the gift of therapy was when we did premarital counseling. It's a requirement in Andrew's family, which was such a blessing, but you had to do premarital counseling before you got married. And we became, like, best friends with our premarital counselor. He was amazing. And after we got married, we started learning that we had this tendency to only go to counseling or therapy when it got bad. And we've now started just setting goals of doing it proactively and just for maintenance.

[Andrew East]

It helps so much. And like, in, you know, anything, anytime you speak or write something, you're, like, putting it out onto the table and in a way that allows you to be like this third, third party. Audience to it. And then like. And that's what a therapist does so well is kind of like pulling it out and then. And then it makes it feel way less personal.

[Srila Roy Green]

Is there any advice that you would give to other couples who may be struggling in their relationships after becoming parents?

[Andrew East]

Right around the time we had our first kid, we started doing weekly date nights that were like mandatory. And every Thursday night it was. Now it's Wednesdays, 5pm Goes we get. We asked for help. Which I think is another big one. Like, like please allow room for others. Allow room for the. The village to help raise the child. You know, whether it be friends or. Or family. We have someone come watch the kids and we'll go out and some nights we say two words to each other and sit there in silence because we're mad or annoyed or whatever. And then other nights it's like such a refreshing. We'll look forward to it all week. And that's kind of the season we're in now where it's like what Date night is our favorite part of the week.

[Srila Roy Green]

Yeah, it's actually something I practice too in my own family. But then also as a therapist. I will give this as homework too. Is carve out schedule that time make it impossible. Immovable. So hard. Last question. Any moments of doubt that came up for either of you after the kids and during those difficult moments?

[Shawn Johnson]

I never had doubt in us and I never had doubt in Andrew. But I always doubt myself because I am a perfectionist and I want to succeed and I want to be the best at what I do. And so my brain and my doubt goes to. Am I suited to do this? Am I the best mom for my children? Am I the best wife for my husband? It's doubt in myself.

[Srila Roy Green]

Those moments of self doubt are somehow extrapolated and amplified when we go through these significant life changes. And I think you spoke to that really beautifully and to your point, it's like it may be a crossing thought, but it's never something that. It's not an option. It's not on the table.

[Andrew East]

I am grateful that we have had this all in mentality, I think. And. And when we stood at the altar and said I do, it was like this, okay. Like we don't really. We don't know what we don't know. And there will be things that come up that we don't know and some of those will really hurt. But we are going to go down this journey together. We have just never, you know, we've never been to the point where we've needed to take the first step in that unwinding and I'm and grateful for that. But it's an adventure to take the highs and lows and then you look back on it 10 years. We're on our 10th anniversary of marriage now and it's like, oh my gosh, what a beautiful mosaic of a life that we've built together. And I've been front row seat to Sean's life as her witness to her life. And like that is what a responsibility, what an honor to see her at her best and at her worst and then to, to hold her hand through it all.

[Shawn Johnson]

We made a commitment to each other 10 years ago and then life got really, really messy. We've gone through a lot of really hard things. We have very complicated lives. But rather than ever question the commitment, it was always a who do we need to go find? What do we need to do to help preserve it?

[Srila Roy Green]

Yeah, I really do love how vulnerable and open you've both been with me today and in answering these questions, which I know can sometimes be so tough. So thank you so much.

[Shawn Johnson]

Thank you.

[Andrew East]

Thank you. Srila. I'm down to make this a seven hour podcast.

[Srila Roy Green]

Yes, I would.

[Shawn Johnson]

Okay.

[Srila Roy Green]

Let me tell you, I love talking to you guys. I would do this for seven hours except I think my boss might come after me. This is an ad by BetterHelp. In this episode, we're talking about what happens to a marriage when a child enters the picture and how the joy of becoming parents can coincide with some of the most challenging moments a couple can face. These moments deserve to be talked about, not pushed aside. And having the right support can make all the difference. Therapy can help you navigate conversations like these, especially when you're trying to communicate across differences without losing connection. BetterHelp makes it easy to get the support you deserve. Visit betterhelp.com mindifwetalk for 10% off your first month. That's better. H E L p.com mindifwetalk Sean and Andrew have a way of speaking about and to one another with so much tenderness and love. And I think that's what allows them to go to the hard places together. At the end of the day, they truly function as a team. Now, to help me unpack things further, I sat down with Sunny Williams, a licensed therapist with better help. We talked about different postpartum mood disorders, what to keep an eye out for in your partner, and how to get to know each other at 3am before the baby even arrives. Remember, if you want to write into our show, check out BetterHelp's Instagram stories for the latest prompt. You may hear your question in a future episode. Alright, let's get into it. Hey, Sunny, nice to have you back again.

[Sunny Williams]

Glad to be here with you.

[Srila Roy Green]

So the first question I want to really lead into here has to do with one of the most, maybe bittersweet stories that Sean shared was when there was an unplanned pregnancy. It wasn't even on the radar for them. And you know, what do you think it is about that sort of news that causes someone to hesitate even when they're in a committed relationship or any type of relationship?

[Sunny Williams]

It's a life changing event, for better or for worse. Right. The bittersweet part that you talked about and it's important to like, take that time to just be like, okay, this is scary. Do I want this? Do I not? And really sit with it. And sometimes saying that quiet part out loud of, are we ready for this? Will this hurt my career? Will this change us and our dynamic and being okay to have that conversation?

[Srila Roy Green]

Yeah. Yeah, for sure. How do you think a person could decide to make sacrifices about specific aspects of their lives? I'm gonna have to put this on hold for myself until my partner has to put this on hold for me. Like, how does one navigate that?

[Sunny Williams]

Well, when you're doing it for yourself and when you're doing it with a partner, I feel like it looks a little bit different. So I'll start with your partner first when you're talking about those sacrifices. I always love what our former first lady Michelle Obama said about having to have that moment where it was like, oh, wow, for these, you know, eight to 10 years, it was me lifting the load. It was me doing these things, being the primary parent, you know, for the betterment or the greater good of the relationship of the family. Right. And I feel like when those aspects come into play, it's important to remember, okay, we are a team. So eventually my time will also come. And knowing that your partner has your back of that give and take and being willing to sacrifice as well with you and not having it to be all on you. Right? Yeah. And then from the individual aspect, I think it's very important to almost handle yourself with kid gloves. We do such a good job of caring for the baby and the baby's needs that we forget, okay, what do I need in this moment? And if I am sacrificing right now for my baby, how can I get back to me? Letting yourself understand that it's temporary and it's never supposed to be just this full on sacrifice of where you have nothing left at the end of the day, because that baby hopefully willingly will grow up, be an adult in this world. And when they are, you don't want to be sitting there left with nothing because all you did was sacrifice without remembering to come back to yourself.

[Srila Roy Green]

You know, if you're in a relationship and you're confronting something like an unplanned pregnancy, do you feel like therapy could be helpful?

[Sunny Williams]

Always. Always. If you are a willing participant in the process, yes. And I speak a lot with parents about doing interpersonal therapy and that focuses on transitions. You know, becoming a parent is a huge transition. And that therapy in particular focuses on like who you were in the present, the grieving process of grieving who you were, and also learning how to be this new version of yourself. What does that look like? And really having your partner walk alongside you with that because you're becoming new people together. You're, you're entering a new hood together, entering the parenthood together. So therapy can be an excellent tool to kind of help you get prepared for that new chapter or the transitions that you're experiencing through the pregnancy.

[Srila Roy Green]

Yeah, because it's not, it's not cookie cutter. No, your journey's yours, you know, your partnership with your partner is yours. And it's very tailored, individualized, subjective to the individual and individuals that are going through it. Because no one time is the same.

[Sunny Williams]

No.

[Srila Roy Green]

Want to talk a little bit about the miscarriage? You know, one of the things that, and frankly, it really touched me and it really got to me too, is when Shawn was processing that miscarriage and, and what that was like. And oftentimes when we go through that type of a loss, it is very easy for someone to turn that blame inward.

[Sunny Williams]

Yeah. I find that people that are experiencing miscarriage, they want to try to attach a reason, even though in most cases, vast cases, is something that is completely out of your control. It's something that could not have been prevented. But it's human nature to want to attach meaning to something and be like, okay, well, maybe it's because I did this, or maybe it's because I did that. And I feel like that can be very harmful to you because you're already going to have to experience this immense grief and this transitional period. And your body is still very hormonal, as if the pregnancy, you know, is still moving along. And so that's uncharted territory that you're dealing with. And then the added pressure of saying, okay, well, was this my fault? What Could I have done differently?

[Srila Roy Green]

What happens? Or how can somebody approach it? If one partner's ready again to try, but the other partner isn't, with that,

[Sunny Williams]

you can't force it. And I know for the person that may be ready, that's the hard part to hear, because it's like, what do you mean you're not ready? Like, we just lost this part of our family. Don't you want to grow our family? Those types of hard conversations that come up, but for the other person, they could have fear of another miscarriage. They could have a fear of, okay, well, what happens if maybe I lose you next time? Like, the fear is real, and you have to be able to talk to your partner and say, okay, well, what is the root cause of this? Like, why are you ready? Why am I not ready? And really have those conversations? And that's another point where a therapist could help you kind of meet in the middle, facilitate those tough conversations and really get you to a starting point. Right. Maybe not a resolution, but a starting point of, how do we move forward with this?

[Srila Roy Green]

Right. Because even if you have the conversation, it's no guarantee that you'll end up on the same page, you know, but having that clarity around, what is this really about for each of us and how do we get through this? Not over it. I want to talk a little bit about postpartum. We talk about it, but we don't talk about it enough. And I really would. I love that we got some traction on this for the greater good around, like, managing postpartum. Like, how can you prepare? What are some of the things that you simply can't prepare for?

[Sunny Williams]

Yes. And, you know, perinatal mental health. You're speaking my language.

[Srila Roy Green]

I know I am.

[Sunny Williams]

It is my jam. So one thing that I do want to clear up. A lot of people are familiar with postpartum depression, right? That's the big one that comes out there. But there's a whole umbrella of terms, and it's called pmads, right? It's perinatal mood and anxiety disorders. That is the scope of it. So we have the postpartum depression, postpartum anxiety, postpartum ocd, and in some severe and rare cases, we have postpartum psychosis. You can not necessarily avoid it. Right. But you can prepare better. So you can have a support system in place that is key. And the second piece that really helps kind of stave off some of these things is a knowing and awareness, like, if you are already susceptible to certain mental health concerns, say you already have anxiety, you May be more likely to have postpartum anxiety and kind of looking at certain markers and predictors, talking to your doctors, talking to your team of support, of saying, hey, this is what I'm noticing. This is what I have a little fear around. What should I be on the lookout for? What sort of things should I be paying attention to? And that support system is key. Not going into it alone.

[Srila Roy Green]

With any postpartum experience, there's already a sense of isolation. Having gone through my own two experiences as well, Sunny, like you, I was underprepared. And then I felt very isolated at the same time because it was like, I don't want to give voice to this, because if I do, then I'm failing. But knowing what to look out for is, I think, crucial. You have the specialty here, so I'm going to lean on you. How can we look out for those signs? Subtle, not so subtle. And then how can we support our partners?

[Sunny Williams]

One of the main things to look out for is, is it the baby blues or is it a PE med? Right. And so one of the key things with that is time, timing of it. If it's lasting more than two weeks, that's not baby blues, then we need to start looking at some other things. So are you extremely weepy? Tearfulness? Are you having some scary thoughts? And if you're having scary thoughts, knowing that that is normal, right? That is a normal part of postpartum depression and anxiety is some of those scary thoughts. And a lot of times moms or birthing people, they don't want to say it out lo because you're like, something must be wrong with me. Or people might think that I want to harm my baby. And that's not the case. But that is a marker that I might need to reach out for help. I might need to say this part out loud and try to get some help. If you start to notice with your partner, if they are withdrawing into themselves a lot, if you're noticing that it's very much them and baby, they don't want you to touch the baby. They don't want you to help with the baby. No, you can't change the baby's diaper. The baby can't be out of their sight. Those are clear signs of postpartum anxiety. Like, they don't want anything to do with you helping with the baby. It's just all them and the baby with postpartum ocd, you might notice that every so often they have to swaddle the baby just so it has to be just this way. I have to feed in this order, I have to nurse in this order. And it becomes very strict to the point where if they make a small mistake or if something is out of order, that is their day, they're done. And with the main one, with the postpartum depression, the waves of emotions that are coming on more frequently than not, you notice that they're not so much taking care of themselves or the baby is very well kept, but you notice that they may not be showering, they may not be sleeping. They may just be almost a shell of themselves. Don't just let that go by the side. Ask them, what can I do to help? What can I take off of your plate? Or, you know, I like to say just be proactive. We're not blind. We can see the things that need to be done. Do the things help the mom? And just being there for them. With postpartum psychosis, that one, it's very clear signs. They don't always speak up because they have a lot of intrusive thoughts that are going on. However, what you may notice. What you may notice is hallucinations or delusions, very severe confusion and thought processes. Their speech may be very varied and what they're saying is not making any sense. Those types of signs do require immediate medical attention.

[Srila Roy Green]

Now, I'm so glad you touched on that, too, Sunny. You know, I've had my shared experience in a clinical setting with that, and it is a very scary experience, and I don't think it should be one that we don't talk about because not very many people know about it. And when they do encounter it, they're at a loss. So the more, more, you know, education we can get out there, the better. Sometimes I think partners are hesitant and they don't know how to find the right words or what to say and how to say it. So do you have any tips or tricks that can be helpful for the partners who are listening to this in helping support their partner who has just had a baby?

[Sunny Williams]

The main thing is, hopefully, if you've reached this point, you have a certain knowing of your partner and you know how to approach them. Right. Some people need something very direct, very clear. They don't need you to beat around the bush, while other people may need you to handle them a bit more gently. So there's no one size fits all for this one, but I would say open the conversation just very generally, I've noticed this. Whatever the case may be, I would like to offer you some support, but I want to make sure that we're on the same page. Would it be helpful if I. And then fill in the blank. Don't leave it so open ended for them to just say, oh, I'm fine, it's fine, I got it. Offer something that you've noticed. I've noticed that, you know, at times you're not letting the baby out of your sight. Is there something that I can help with that? Would it be helpful if I sat with you and the baby and maybe I held the baby while you did X, Y and Z. Whatever the case may be like, call name to it, but say it in a way as to where you're not gonna put them into defense. You're not going to offend them in a way. Because a lot of times mothers or the birthing person feel like it's their job to take care of the baby, right? It's my job. I have to do all of the things. But caring for themselves is also part of caring for the child. And sometimes they don't realize that piece of it.

[Srila Roy Green]

Right. And you know, again, to be fair, even if there isn't any diagnosable postpartum occurring for a new mother, there's still like a sensitivity that they're experiencing as a mother where they already are tired, exhausted, sleep deprived, their body has been through war, you know, and then on top of that, if they feel like they don't know how to ask for help, having somebody to offer solutions, to call it a name, can be incredibly supportive and helpful, a hundred percent. One of the things I think couples underestimate is the impact of becoming parents on the relationship. You know, here we are, happily married or happily partnered, and suddenly it's like, yes, let's have, let's have a family. What do you think is, you know, top whatever, however many come to mind, you know, what do you think it is that couples underestimate most about having a child and how it'll impact their relationship?

[Sunny Williams]

Many things. But that also goes to the preparation piece, right? There's all these birthing classes, all these things to prepare for you to get the baby here. But there's very little on, okay, what do I do once I have the baby here? And even less about, okay, what do I do to sustain my relationship with this new baby? And so there has to be that piece of, who do we want to be with this new addition, with this baby in our life? What does it look like? How do we connect? And we have to be intentional about it, which is easier said than done, especially in those first few months. But it's so important to protect that time, whatever that time looks like, even if it's 15, 30 minutes of okay, we're going to watch our show, we're going to put the baby down for a nap or tummy time or put whatever it may be, the baby will be somewhere safe and you and I are going to connect. We're going to have that time. If you are able to have a village, you are going to utilize that village so that you can still date your partner, so that you can still communicate with your partner and that you can still remember why we went on this journey together. Because it's very easy with a newborn to become ships in the night and become very good at co parenting this new baby. But you become disconnected as partners.

[Srila Roy Green]

Yeah. And I think that's the piece. And it's so easy. It just happens when you see couples that are new parents, any particular patterns that you see pop up for them around when they are struggling the most?

[Sunny Williams]

Yes. Everything becomes hyper focused on the child. Every conversation, every point of connection is that child. But did you notice that your partner changed their hair or did you notice they've been struggling at work? Those little things, the things that you used to love learning about your partner, become distant knowledge when it should be secondhand. You forget to have those check ins with your partner.

[Srila Roy Green]

Somebody once said to me years ago, you know, try to touch, quote, unquote, your partner said number X number of times a day, hey, don't forget to eat your lunch, text, or taking that two seconds to say, hey, you're home. That's a touch, you know, every little bit, that connection, making that connection, because that opens it up, it keeps it fresh, it keeps it real. And I've never forgotten that tip. I do think there are aspects of communication that will need to shift in a partnership. Once kids are introduced into the fold,

[Sunny Williams]

almost every aspect will need to change. I always tell people, find one to two things that you just want to protect. Like this is your line in the sand, but you need to be a little bit loose with everything else and finding a new normal. The biggest thing I find with parents, new parents, is the intimacy issue or the intimacy gap. And I love that it's becoming trendy now to schedule Joy. People say, you know, scheduling sex is not sexy and they don't want to put it on the calendar. And so now I say, you know, we're scheduling Joy. It sounds a whole lot more fun, right?

[Srila Roy Green]

I love that.

[Sunny Williams]

That's fun, right? You have to be intentional about those things. You have to put it on your calendar, you're not going to plan for your PTO and then be like, never mind. I don't want to go on vacation.

[Shawn Johnson]

Right.

[Sunny Williams]

So that's how intentional you need to be about your partnership, your intimacy, your relationship. It does not matter if it's been a long day. It does not matter if the kids have been crying, if you're overstimulated, if you have planned it out. You protect that time fiercely and you make it happen.

[Srila Roy Green]

Yes, absolutely. I love that. Schedule your joy. Yeah. You know, to your point, we wouldn't cancel our pto. What I'm also hearing when you say that is when that becomes the pattern, it starts to feel like you're getting taken for granted, and then that builds up a resentment in the relationship, and that can lead to deeper issues within the partnership that maybe didn't exist before. Which leads me to my next question, which is a couple comes to one of us and says, we don't feel like ourselves anymore. You know, what would be the first thing that you would want to look for? And how would you encourage them to shift that narrative for themselves?

[Sunny Williams]

If you're coming to me and you're already. We don't feel like us anymore, I would ask, when did it start to feel different? I would want to pinpoint what was the moment? Did you even notice the moment when it happened? And then, what can we do now? Because we're here now and understanding that we may not be able to get back to us, but who do we want to be? Who do we want to be in this partnership? Who do we want to be moving forward? You can always revisit your vows. You can always revisit the conversation of what can I promise you?

[Srila Roy Green]

I love what you just said, Sunny, because I think it's really a lot more profound than people think to say something like, I don't know that I can show up for you like that anymore, but how can I show up for you now?

[Sunny Williams]

Yes.

[Srila Roy Green]

Because it's acknowledging the past and honoring it and the person and relationship you have had, but also acknowledging that it has changed. It may not be able to go back to that. How do you know when it's a tough season or a rough season in a relationship that will, you know, we will power through, you know, just like a tough winter versus there may not be much more they can give or the relationship is breaking down. Like, how do you tell the difference?

[Sunny Williams]

That goes back to the different timelines when we were talking about with grief. When it comes to a partnership, people can be experiencing the same relationship very differently. And for one person, they could still have a lot left to give, a lot left fight. And for the other person, they could just be completely shut down, like, I've gone as far as I can go. So it would take talking to both of the people individually, because we know sometimes when it's a group setting, the honesty does not always show up. Sometimes it's hard to say the not so nice thing, the thing of where we're truly at or where you feel like you're at. And so I would always encourage, if I meet with both individuals and I feel like there is something there, something that they still want to fight for, even if it's something very small, then it's always worth fighting for. It's always worth saying, okay, I can give it a little bit more, but maybe I have to approach it differently. But when they can't even give me a small piece of something either in regards to how they love their partner or how they are still in the relationship, then it's time to have a different type of conversation.

[Srila Roy Green]

Who's going to keep me warm at night? It could be that small. Or who's going to help me with this? It could be that small. And I'm not trying to make it sound transactional, yet at the same time, it's. Sometimes it is those little things in our partnerships that make us realize, like, how meaningful they have become to us

[Sunny Williams]

in our life when it comes to a relationship training that we go through. One of the main predictors of divorce. Right. They say, is if you don't give your partner a bid, and that's when they're just talk. They could be saying, oh, the weather is nice, the sky is blue, it's going to be hot today. And they don't turn towards you and they don't acknowledge you. That is one of the biggest predictors. And to me, that's a small thing that could be very telling if things start to get rough. Did you see that video I sent you on Instagram? And it's nothing. Then it's kind of like, okay, this is where we're at.

[Srila Roy Green]

Yep. When a couple is planning to or trying to have a baby or start their family, you know, what are some exercises or rituals or tools, whatever comes to mind for you that you can recommend to help with that, like, aspect of preparation?

[Sunny Williams]

Yes, there's a few things, but the top ones that come to mind for sure is how do we want to parent? How are we going to be with this child? Because again, that goes back to what we were talking about, what we saw with our parents or whoever raised us, those things come with us into parenthood. And not enough parents talk about, okay, once this child gets here, how will we parent them? How will we get them into adulthood? And that's the other part. Do we want to have a baby or do we want to build a family? Because when you think about it, the baby season is very short in the scope of what it is you're doing when you're bringing life into this world. So those are two main things. And then once it's happened, once baby is on the way. One activity that I always recommend and I assign as homework is called who are we at 3am and that is when I have the parent set their phones, their alarm clocks, whatever it may be for 3am or whatever time the mommy to be or birthing person to be is getting up to use the bathroom because that happens near the end. And the phone or alarm has to be somewhere far away. As to where you have to get up, you have to go find it and you have to do an activity and the activity has to last no less than 20 minutes because that goes back to that preparation piece of. I didn't know the sleep deprivation was gonna be so bad. I didn't know there were gonna be so many sleepless nights. And I have them do it for about a week straight. They notice, oh, we were changing out the dishes and we started getting snappy at each other or you know, you start to see those things because if you see it early and you see it often, you can course correct. You don't wanna wait until the baby is here to figure out how do we do this? How do we communicate when we haven't slept and we're tired and exhausted?

[Srila Roy Green]

Yeah, I love that exercise. You're strengthening your, your resilience as a couple in so many different ways. Right. You're really seeing that investment. So I really appreciate you sharing your expertise today, Sunny, because again, I wish I'd had you before I had my kids at this point. But now we're too late. We're too far gone at this point. We're too late. I'm gone. Hopefully our listeners get so much from this. So thank you again for being here.

[Sunny Williams]

Thank you, Sheila, always a pleasure.

[Srila Roy Green]

Thank you. I want to give a big thank you to Better Help for their passion for this project and for giving us a platform to champion the well being in all of us. Mind if We Talk is produced by Acast Creative Studios in collaboration with Better Help and hosted by me. Sri Lay Greene if you like what you just heard, drop us a review in Spotify or Apple podcasts and share the episode with your friends. Maybe one of our topics will help someone in your life and remember your happiness matters. Mind if we talk Is intended for entertainment and education, not for mental health diagnosis or medical advice.