← Mind If We Talk?
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- [00:00]
Gail Rudnick
The women left their husbands in the 70s because they felt they had been cheated out of the workforce, out of doing their own thing. It was a time of women's lib. We had, you know, loads of controversies at that point and they were angry.
- [00:18]
Host (possibly Sri La Green)
Hey, can I talk to you about something?
- [00:23]
Kim Murstein
I wish you knew.
- [00:25]
Gail Rudnick
I wish you knew how lonely menopause felt. I wish you knew why it's so
- [00:30]
Sunny Williams
hard for men to share their feelings.
- [00:32]
Gail Rudnick
I wish you knew what it was
- [00:33]
Host (possibly Sri La Green)
like growing up in a low income family.
- [00:35]
Kim Murstein
I wish you knew how hard it was not having a college degree.
- [00:38]
Host (possibly Sri La Green)
I wish you knew what it's like to be me.
- [00:43]
Cyrila Roy Greene
Welcome back to Mind if We Talk, where you get to be the fly on the wall for many therapy sessions and learn some mental health tips along the way. I'm Cyrila Roy Greene, a licensed mental health counselor with BetterHelp with over 19 years of experience and your friendly guide for season two. This season is all about bringing together two people who see the world a little differently and helping them trade assumptions for understanding. Not to win the conversation, just to get closer. Because honestly, sometimes the most healing sentence in a relationship isn't.
- [01:17]
Host (possibly Sri La Green)
I agree.
- [01:18]
Cyrila Roy Greene
It's Tell me more. And just like last season, we'll spend the second half of each episode sitting down with a better health therapist to break down what we can learn. And today's episode is a perfect example. We're talking about what it was like for young women in the 1960s. Every generation grows up within a different set of invisible rules, different expectations about love, work, ambition, family, independence. But many of us don't actually know
- [01:50]
Host (possibly Sri La Green)
the full story of the people who raised us.
- [01:52]
Cyrila Roy Greene
For example, here a survey from Ancestry found that only 37% of Americans say they're familiar with their mom's life before they were born. Like her early dreams, her struggles, the decisions that made her who she is. And yet, most people say they wish they knew more about their family's history, so the desire for connection is there. Sometimes we just don't know what questions to ask, but today we're going to try. For this conversation, I'm joined by Kim Murstein and Gail Rudnick, the granddaughter and
- [02:21]
Host (possibly Sri La Green)
grandmother behind the Excuse My Grandma podcast. They're hilarious.
- [02:25]
Cyrila Roy Greene
They they're honest. And they've turned generational differences into something I love. A project rooted in curiosity. You'll hear what dating, marriage, family expectations and having options really looked like for Gail coming of age in the 60s and how her granddaughter Kim holds all of that alongside what it means to be a woman in her 20s today. And after their conversation, I'll sit down with licensed therapist Sunny Williams from BetterHelp to break down how to navigate these generational differences with compassion, open heartedness, and boundaries that protect your own happiness. All the things you can learn in
- [03:04]
Host (possibly Sri La Green)
therapy, by the way.
- [03:05]
Cyrila Roy Greene
All right, pull up the chair. Let's talk.
- [03:08]
Host (possibly Sri La Green)
It is so nice to meet you both. I just want to say, like, I'm a huge fan. I actually have watched you both. So, Gail, if you have like a few in a few sentences, however, that feels comfortable. What was it like growing up in a generation where the expectations were, were very different?
- [03:28]
Gail Rudnick
Well, I grew up in the suburbs of New York in a fairly affluent community, but some people did not go to college. I would say most of my high school class and I was in public school, did not go to college. Most of them were in vocational schools. We grew up where family was center for us and we were a very, very close knit family. My mother and her sister lived very close to each other. So we had two famil that sort of shared grandparents. Every weekend they would come up from wherever they both lived in Manhattan, and they would come up and both families were together. We always had family lunches on Sunday where everybody was expected to be there. There was never a conversation. There was nobody turning on a camera or a laptop and zoning out. They had to be there, present. Grandparents would ask questions about how school was, how we were doing with our either girlfriends, boyfriends, whatever the case could have been. And so I think that helped me in my adult life because I always had a solid framework of knowing my family was behind me, whatever I did. And then, of course, I went to college. I met my husband very early. I was married at 21. So for me, I went from my family's home, which was a solid house I went to my husband and I had a small apartment and we created our own life. Would I know 62 years later that I would have done what I've done and now doing this with my granddaughter? No. But one thing led to another. The family was always center. But when you marry, you marry your mate's parents and you have to show respect and you have to somehow bring them into the fold as well. So to make a good marriage, you really have to do those things. And it's not that easy.
- [05:28]
Host (possibly Sri La Green)
No, it's work.
- [05:30]
Gail Rudnick
Oh, it's work. It's work.
- [05:31]
Host (possibly Sri La Green)
That's what I'm also hearing you say, Gayle, is that it's work no matter what.
- [05:35]
Cyrila Roy Greene
Right.
- [05:35]
Host (possibly Sri La Green)
It may not always feel like work, but it's work to keep it up,
- [05:38]
Gail Rudnick
but it was more work. Absolutely. And, you know, I was so resentful. A lot of my girlfriends when we first started out. I got married in the 60s. Many of the women who I was very friendly with left. They. The women left their husbands in the 70s because they felt they had been cheated out of the workforce, out of doing their own thing. It was the time of women's lib. We had, you know, loads of controversies at that point, and they were angry. And in many cases, the children were the ones who suffered, of course, but most of them survived because their moms needed a chance to do what they wanted to do. I was fortunate that I was happy. And I've said this to Kim. You can't have it all. I mean, it's ridiculous. Nobody should even put that in a book or on a piece of paper. Whether you're a man or a woman, you can't have it. So now it depends what priority you want. The head of CEO of a large company can't spend time at home. You have to divide roles. And it's something that young people today are finding difficult. It's not so easy for them because they both have careers and they're having families much later. We didn't have that issue because the social dynamics of the time were by the time you were 21, 22, 23, if you didn't have children, they said, oh, you couldn't have children anymore. I mean, you know, it was a very early time for us to have families. So, I mean, women have to realize that if they. If they choose not to, that's fine too, but they have to know where their priorities are and what they are.
- [07:13]
Kim Murstein
Yeah, I was gonna say, like, jury's still out for me when it comes to the women can't have it all conversation, because I think what you mean by that is, like, you have to pick home or you have to pick work. But I don't believe that. Like, I think you can definitely have a successful career and have a family, but I wouldn't say, like, you can't have a family.
- [07:34]
Gail Rudnick
You can have family and you can have children and you can have a wonderful marriage, but you have to put them into slots. You can't do it all at once because you're not super person. Nobody can juggle all those things at the same level. So when you're having young children, and it's not the same as when you're having adult children and they're out of the house, or when you have a Big, big job. You sometimes can't have four children. Maybe you have to be satisfied with one child.
- [08:00]
Kim Murstein
Different priorities at different times.
- [08:01]
Gail Rudnick
Exactly, Exactly.
- [08:03]
Host (possibly Sri La Green)
So, Kim, you know, in. In hearing how your grandmother's describing things, what are your thoughts about the challenges and the differences and how do you feel like that impacts the dynamic between the two of you and where you stand on things?
- [08:17]
Kim Murstein
Yeah, I have a few thoughts. I mean, one is that I am happy, even though I'm obsessed with nostalgia and I'm like a 50s file. Like, and I love everything from that time. I am happy to be a woman today because I feel like I have the most options with the least amount of, like, stigma, and I'm not put in a box. Even if you liked the box you were in, like, I feel like the box. Actually, there's still a box. As a woman, I shouldn't even say that. But it's a much bigger box than before, perhaps. But, yeah, I think, like, when hearing about your experiences, like, I know you've said to me before, like, oh, maybe I would have been a lawyer, but then it was kind of shot down pretty quickly. And then I took this path. I think, like, I am happy that you've, like, found peace in that. But as kind of, as you've said, like a lot of your friends, sometimes you regret it.
- [09:19]
Gail Rudnick
Yeah, sometimes you have regrets, there's no question. But the happy parts outweigh the regrets. You have to weigh all those kind of things, right? And you see how your friends, now in their 30s, you know, it's a different conversation from when you're in your 20s to when you're in your 30s. All of a sudden your friends are gonna, you know, have gotten slowly but surely are getting married, they're having families. So it becomes different priorities. Even, you know, even for people who have careers, they have to see where. Where it all fits together. And it's not always just 50, 50, or even. Sometimes it's 30, 70, that one person needs to stay home more than the other. It depends on the job. And, you know, you're very lucky. You can do a lot of your work from home, but a lot of times people can't. So I think it depends on individuals.
- [10:12]
Kim Murstein
Yeah, I was just gonna say it's so individualized. Like, a lot of it can be discussed in grouping, I guess, generations of women together. But I also think, like, each person has a different experience. So it. Honestly, when we have our discussions, sometimes it becomes a little bit more about personality. But also, I think you still not. I wouldn't say like impose old ideals, because I don't think that's true. But like, you still are rooted in your traditional values, which is fit exactly. Like that's what you're doing. You're a product of that time. And some of it I agree with. But yes, like, I think when, like maybe friction can happen is when you come in with your thought about something and I'm like, for example, moving in with a partner before marriage, you were like, what do you mean? Like, nobody did that. And then you're like, okay, I see that people are doing that now, but you shouldn't be living together for more than a few months before then getting a ring and you still feel that. And I'm like, grandma, all of my friends lived together at least a year before. And there's just like those kind of conversations. I know that's like silly one, but those kind of conversations that you're still coming in with that mindset. And I'm like, that's not how it is.
- [11:24]
Gail Rudnick
Well, it's not how you perhaps don't perceive it, but there are people who still feel the other way, that if you've, you know, that you don't learn that much. You've already going, unless you've only known the young man or the young woman for a couple of weeks or a couple of months, if you've known somebody for a couple of years, there's not going to be that much difference living together. So after a few months, if it doesn't work, it doesn't work. If it works, you know, I don't think these relationships should be non seemingly endless, which I see so often. And then all of a sudden somebody wakes up after a year and says, you know what? I'm not really that crazy about this guy. I gotta move on. Which should have been moved on perhaps a year ago. So I think sometimes because everyone's busy with their careers and not so centered on their relationship at this point in their lives, they don't think about it. But then time moves on and, and you, you know, a lot of, lot of people waste a lot of time, you know, with, with relationships that are not going someplace.
- [12:23]
Host (possibly Sri La Green)
Gail, what do you think is one thing that this generation gets right?
- [12:28]
Gail Rudnick
Well, I, I think they get their, their thinking. They're thinking more openly about ideas about the world situation, sometimes good, sometimes bad, but they are thinking and trying to make a difference, Trying to make a difference. And I think that's very important. I think we've all always wanted that, but have been intimidated in the past. And I Think. Now, young people, hopefully the thinking young people, the people who really think out thoughts, are trying to really make this a wonderful place to live. I like that. Don't you agree, Kim?
- [13:02]
Host (possibly Sri La Green)
Yeah. Kim, what's one thing that your takeaway from your grandmother's generation
- [13:10]
Gail Rudnick
that you like?
- [13:11]
Kim Murstein
As I said, okay, well, what I like, and I'm gonna get there. But just off the bat, like, I watch every 50s movie. I listen to all the music from that time. I loved the. What seemed like, I don't know, like, the courtship process in relationships. So, like, the chivalry was there, opening the door, the pulling out the chair. Like, I love all that stuff. That's not a deep one, but.
- [13:37]
Host (possibly Sri La Green)
No, it's not deep.
- [13:39]
Gail Rudnick
It was, though, because there was no sex involved in most relationships prior to the 70s. It was a courtship. So it was idealized in the movie screen.
- [13:52]
Kim Murstein
You know, on the movies, it was idealized.
- [13:54]
Gail Rudnick
Exactly. It was idealized. And a lot of it was nonsense. Of course, it was not Doris Day and Rock Hudson in real life, but that was the image that they tried to portray.
- [14:05]
Kim Murstein
And I think a lot of us, which is why sometimes I think people like hearing your perspective and stories. A lot of people around my age, like, they kind of want that simpler time, because especially with dating, it is so, like, oversaturated and complicated. And there's dating apps and there's meeting at a bar, and there's meeting through a family friend, and there's, like, all these different things. And that's just in the dating world, obviously, I can expand on that, but I just feel like sometimes thinking about a simpler time is what I sort of, like, cherish from that time.
- [14:40]
Host (possibly Sri La Green)
It's like this nostalgic time that was real. And it's like we miss it. Even though we didn't maybe experience it in our generations, we miss it.
- [14:49]
Gail Rudnick
But you can't have it today because of the telephone, because of communication and social media. I mean, this has changed the world. So, you know, nobody knew what you were doing in your house in the 50s, in the 60s, or the 40s. So it was very different. It was a much more private time.
- [15:06]
Kim Murstein
But also, everyone now is glorious, glorifying any type of nostalgia, not even from that time. But, like, look at pop culture in general. Like, everything is a revival or a reboot. Everything is just about even early 2000s. Everyone's talking about 2016 right now randomly, which, like, I don't even think was good fashion or anything, but everyone's, like, really craving the past. In the last few years.
- [15:33]
Host (possibly Sri La Green)
I Think it can maybe boil down to being able to honor the past while being present in the future, you know, present, you know, being mindful of the present, knowing, like, what can we learn from the past? What were the good that we can kind of bring with us? And I think that's been a theme that's come up a lot in this conversation, is there's so much we can learn from in the past, taking the good kind of a lot of bad stuff. Yeah, there was bad stuff, too. Right.
- [15:57]
Gail Rudnick
Don't forget there was a lot of bad stuff in the 50s, 60s, and 70s.
- [16:00]
Cyrila Roy Greene
Of course.
- [16:01]
Host (possibly Sri La Green)
Absolutely. And I think that's it. You know, it goes back to that balance piece, Right. Being able to take, bring in, you know, keep the good, throw out the bad, and then how can we evolve from that? So I love it. So, Gail, just to, you know, as like a point to end on, you know, what's one thing you wish that Kim knew about what it was like for you growing up in the time that you were raised?
- [16:25]
Gail Rudnick
What I think about as a young person who was married in the early 60s, I think I. I would like Kim and all the people who listen to us to realize we had to make a lot of choices. I hope the Women Day take away one thing for me. Don't think you're going to have it all, because you're not. Make choices that will make you happy and then be flexible, because being flexible is very important in life, and it's something that we all have to learn no matter what age we are. So you have to realize what the basic ideals you have for making your own future. And if you want to be a lawyer, you want to be in showbiz, go do it. I mean, have fun and do it. But remember, you have to have a balance.
- [17:13]
Kim Murstein
Perspective.
- [17:14]
Gail Rudnick
Perspective.
- [17:15]
Cyrila Roy Greene
Love it. I love that.
- [17:17]
Host (possibly Sri La Green)
That's great. Thank you so much for sharing that. Gail, I just want to say thank you so much for joining us today and for having this lovely conversation. I really enjoyed it.
- [17:27]
Kim Murstein
Thank you for leading such a great conversation.
- [17:33]
Cyrila Roy Greene
This is an ad by BetterHelp. In this episode, we're talking about generational differences, what it was like to grow up in a completely different era, and how those experiences shape the way we see the world. Conversations like this can be meaningful, but they can also feel vulnerable or even a little scary. To start, therapy can help you navigate moments like these, especially when you're trying to communicate across differences without losing connection. BetterHelp makes it easy to get the support you deserve. Visit betterhelp.com mindifwetalk for 10% off, that's betterhelp.com mindifwewetalk listening to Kim and Gayle, what really stands out to me is their generosity toward one another. They make room for each other's stories and experiences, because when we understand the context someone grew up in, the expectations they carried, the options they believed they had, something shifts. We stop trying to measure whether their perspective is right, and we start asking what shaped their point of view. So what actually makes conversations like this productive? What can we learn from Kim and Gail about having talks like this with our own loved ones? To explore all this and more, I sat down with my colleague and friend Sunny Williams, a licensed mental health therapist with BetterHelp. Together, we talk about curiosity, intergenerational wisdom, and staying open to all perspectives. We've also got a couple of listener questions in this episode that we unpack together. And if you'd like to send in one of your own, check out BetterHelp Social Media for the latest prompt. Let's dive in.
- [19:18]
Host (possibly Sri La Green)
I'm here today with Sunny Williams to talk about.
- [19:23]
Cyrila Roy Greene
Well, mind if we talk?
- [19:25]
Host (possibly Sri La Green)
How are you doing, Sunny?
- [19:27]
Sunny Williams
I am doing good. I'm so excited to be here.
- [19:29]
Host (possibly Sri La Green)
I'm so happy to have you here. It's fantastic. Loving it. So what was it like to be a woman in the 1960s? You know, and it was really interesting because a lot of it had to do with generation gap, had to do with being women in differing generations and the evolution of those roles and expectations and all of that stuff. A theme that came up, right, is that respect isn't about having consensus. It's about being able to agree to disagree a lot of times. Right. Like, you know, navigating those difficult conversations, again, with that lens of respect. Right. So, you know, one of the things that came up during the podcast with Kim and Gail was this idea of coming at it from a place of curiosity rather than coming at it from a place of judgment. And I think also across certain cultures, there's also just that, that unwritten, you know, expectation of, you know, I'm your elder, you listen to me, I'm the authority, I'm always right. And I think we're seeing a pivot cross, generationally cross culturally, where that's getting challenged. Going along with this theme, how do you decide which differences are worth talking through and which ones you need to maybe just let go of?
- [20:50]
Sunny Williams
That is a great question. I think if I can't come to a place of curiosity like you shared, or a place of openness where I'm just Like, I don't even know if I'm, I'm curious in this regard. Then I might not even open the door to that conversation, whatever the, the topic may be. Like, if I, that comes with a self awareness piece. Like if I know within myself, whatever you say, mom or grandma, I'm just gonna be like, ah, I, I can't even, I can't even get there from a place of just genuine curiosity. Then, then don't start, don't start the conversation. Right? You have to at least either be open, be curious, want to understand at some level, or want to share at some level. Right.
- [21:36]
Host (possibly Sri La Green)
You know, in the, in the podcast, you know, while Gail was really understanding about, you know, the lifestyle differences between herself and her granddaughter, that's not always the case. Right? It's not always that. If you will quote easy, sometimes it's a lot more complex and it's a lot more layered and there's a lot more conflict in those situations. You know, how could somebody approach keeping a positive relationship with their parent or grandparent while also having an independent lifestyle?
- [22:05]
Sunny Williams
So I've worked with a few clients on this, and the first step that we always do is kind of remove whatever that title is. We remove the title of grandma, we remove the title of mom, parent, and we just look at them as a person. Because a lot of time that title keeps us from saying certain things or acting in certain ways just simply because of the title. So I always ask my clients, let's, let's remove that title. If this was just a friend, say you're just talking to a friend, how would you navigate the conversation differently? And then from that lens, we at least have a starting point of, okay, well, if it wasn't my mom, then, you know, I could just say, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, you know, whatever the case may be. And I was like, okay, well, let's start there. Because before they were mom, they were a per. They were a person. They're still that person. They still had their own kind of thoughts and feelings beyond I'm Mom. So that's an important first step. And then past that, once you've kind of taken off that title, it's looking at, okay, at what point will I need to set a boundary, right? Because at the end of the day, if your mind is made up, this is a lifestyle that you've chosen, whatever the case may be, then at some point there needs to be a boundary. Like, I can only talk so much. I can only, you know, understand so much, be open so much. But at a certain Point I may have to set a boundary so that the relationship can still exist.
- [23:29]
Host (possibly Sri La Green)
I think you hit on some really key points there. So I love that you said that. I think that's really great. So we did have a listener write in and ask this question. How do you work through conflicting views of femininity, career, motherhood, etc.
- [23:48]
Sunny Williams
That is heavy. Okay.
- [23:50]
Host (possibly Sri La Green)
Juicy, juicy question. I love it. Great question.
- [23:54]
Sunny Williams
Very layered.
- [23:56]
Host (possibly Sri La Green)
Very, very.
- [23:58]
Sunny Williams
I think you would have to start with one at a time, because, yes, those things can be intertwined, but they can mean so many different things. Right. And I. I think it would be helpful if I had a better understanding of. Of where they were in regards to some of those things, because, again, it's about kind of setting a boundary at a certain point of saying, this is how I can speak to motherhood. Since I'm a mother, I'd be like, okay, well, this is how I mother my grandmother and my mom did certain things where I'm like, okay, I can understand that to a certain extent, but I'm going to choose to do it this way. It's a different time. Things have changed a bit, and I'm going to adopt what makes sense for me and my baby. So I can see it being the same way with career. Like, okay, maybe you. Your mom didn't want you to work a career. Maybe that wasn't the norm. But you're very focused on, you know, wanting to navigate the corporate lifestyle or move up the ladder, and that should be okay. So I feel like it just depends on what part of this very juicy question you're trying to lean into and kind of, like, pick it apart piece by piece to figure out the best way to kind of open up that door to conversation.
- [25:09]
Host (possibly Sri La Green)
I think the thing that comes out of your response to that question, and that resonated with me as I was doing the podcast with Gail and Kim, is that there is no one right way.
- [25:19]
Sunny Williams
Yeah.
- [25:19]
Cyrila Roy Greene
Is there?
- [25:20]
Host (possibly Sri La Green)
There's no one right way. It's about what works for the individual, you know? And as you were talking, Sunny, I'm thinking I was reflecting on my grandmother's, my mother and me and the differences in just three generations of. Of women. And, you know, I have daughters, too, so there's that. It's like, continue. Now we're four generations. Right? And. And it's funny because when I think back to when my. I was growing up, my mother was one of the first working mothers and was very much a role model. It was even when I was growing up, my mother had to deal With a lot of pressure and a lot of challenges around being that moment, you know, and she had to get the earful from, you know, socially, within the family, so on and so forth, right? And now for me, it's like, well, of course I'm a working mother. Why wouldn't, why would I be other? Right? Because I had that role model. And again, to your point, and you maybe think of untangling a ball of yarn because it isn't just as simple as pulling one string. It's. Everything is, you know, all together. It's all one big piece because it's you. It's really about being able to dissect and understand what leads into what. So I think that's great, great way of putting it, 100%. Do you have tips for like, how to not get defensive and staying curious when these challenges come up?
- [26:48]
Sunny Williams
So this answer might be a little spicy, but I feel like some people go into the conversation already at times, not being open, already saying, okay, well, I know they're going to say this and I'm going to be right back at them with this. Like, they kind of already enter the conversation on the defense. And that happens more times than not because we replay these narratives over and over again, these conversations before they even happen. We're like, okay, I'm ready for this conversation. I know that this is what they're going to say. So this is what I'm going to say. And before we know it, we are not listening. We're going into the conversation almost like we're going into bed battle. So the first thing is to have like a gut check with yourself to being like, okay, am I in a place where I can have this conversation? Like, am I ready for this conversation? Right, for it to truly be a conversation and not a disagreement or an argument or a confrontation. So it starts with yourself and having a bit of self awareness to see temperature check with myself, am I ready for this conversation? And if you truly are, then it should be to the point of, okay, they may say this, but I'm not going to let that throw me off. I'm not going to let that upset me. And I am going to have like my key points that I want to get across in this conversation. Because there's nothing wrong with preparing for a conversation, but you can't go into it being like, okay, well, they're going to say this. So I'm going to say that you have to go into, like, this is what I'm hoping to get across. These are the things that I'm going to focus on if the conversation goes this way, I'm going to try to pivot it back to this point that I'm trying to, to, to make. And at a certain point, if we can't get there, then like we talked about having that edit in ourselves to be like, okay, well I need to step away or we can try this again another day. So I mean it starts self. Really.
- [28:36]
Host (possibly Sri La Green)
Yeah. And you said temperature check. I love that you said temperature check yourself. Right. Because you can't control the other person's temperature, but you can control your own and how you choose to react to that or how you go into it.
- [28:47]
Sunny Williams
It.
- [28:47]
Host (possibly Sri La Green)
Right. So I think those are great points to bring up. And you mentioned boundaries. This has been a theme here today for us this morning. Right. You know, setting boundaries, you know, it is tough for some people. You know, I still struggle with it
- [29:00]
Cyrila Roy Greene
from time to time.
- [29:01]
Host (possibly Sri La Green)
And it again, it depends on the relationship and, and you know, what it is to me versus a stranger, you know, or a family member or whoever. And you know, while it's tough for some people, how do you start setting boundaries? Like what's a good place to start?
- [29:17]
Sunny Williams
Yes. Okay. So boundaries get tricky for a beginner. Right. Because it's very much a for you practice. A lot of people feel like I set the boundary. If they don't do it, then they need to be punished in some way. It needs to be punitive. And the consequence of the boundary that you set is not meant to be punitive is for you. And so it's really an exercise in discipline because you're telling yourself, if the next time I go over mom's house, if she's saying anything about why I'm not married yet, then I'm going to whatever the consequences. And that can be like I'm going to start limiting my visits or I'm going to explain to my mom that we can only talk about these topics until I feel like there's more of an understanding there. So it's more about the discipline piece. Right. Because it's easy to set the boundary of saying, well, they're not going to talk to me like this or I'm not going to stay at work past 5 o' clock or whatever the case may be that you're setting the boundary for. But then it's the discipline piece that's the consequence. It's not punitive for the other person. It's you saying, I respect myself enough to say I don't want to put myself in certain situations. I don't Want to be talked to in certain ways. I want to respect my time, whatever the case may be. And then you need to back it up with discipline to make it happen.
- [30:34]
Cyrila Roy Greene
Discipline.
- [30:35]
Host (possibly Sri La Green)
It's not punitive.
- [30:37]
Sunny Williams
No.
- [30:37]
Host (possibly Sri La Green)
And it's for you. That's, I think, so important when people talk about boundaries, it's for you. So I'm going to shift a little bit in topic and talk a little bit about intergenerational learning. Right. And how it's a two way street. It goes both ways.
- [30:56]
Cyrila Roy Greene
Right.
- [30:58]
Host (possibly Sri La Green)
And I, I love this. And again, I grew up with, you know, basically like two other generations around me, right. Like I had my grandmother's influence, I had my mother's influence, you know, and. And so I can appreciate the intergenerational kind of exchange of ideas and all of that. So, you know, we're in an era where staying connected is interesting because in some ways we are much more accessible to each other. So here we are, we're so overly connected, it's almost like the world shrunk. And yet at the same time, we're so siloed, you know, we get stuck kind of in that generational bubble. Like, well, this is my generation, this is your generation. You know, how can we learn? Like, open the doors to the silos so that the two generations can mix and learn from each other. What do you think? Would word work or what would help?
- [31:51]
Sunny Williams
Well, if we're talking about, in regards to the family, I want to say, go back to what I said about removing that title and just having genuine conversations and wanting to understand. My grandmothers are in their 90s and I'm always like, oh, wow, like what? What should I ask them? There's so. There's such a wealth of knowledge and things, and yet some of their thoughts and feelings are very different from my own. But I'm always fascinated when I can kind of crack the shell a little bit and just see them as the person or get them talking about a memory of, you know, their time when they were younger or around my age. And even though it looked very different. Right. And so just having that openness and that curiosity that we've been speaking about can just be like, so, just, ugh. You can just come away with it. So inspired or just learning more about yourself in those moments and conversations.
- [32:41]
Host (possibly Sri La Green)
Absolutely. It makes me think, like, how did you do that? You know, that's the question that comes to mind as you were describing your grandmother's, like, how did you do that? Like, what were the hard parts? What were the easy parts? You know, and really those probing questions, right. Of again coming at it from that curiosity is like, I don't know how you did it. I don't under. I can't. Like, it's amazing to me. It's incredible to me. And with these challenges and limitations. But then you drew on this strength, right? And you know, I was, I was jokingly, not jokingly, but I was just sharing with my kids over the weekend, I think about how my one grandmother had 11 children and God bless her, you know, I'm like, I don't know how she did that. And my grandfather traveled due to work and you know, and, and it was. She was basically operating as a single mother in the 1940s into the 1950s in with that many children and still managed to get them all into college and school. I got two. And I feel like I can't handle it half the time, you know what I mean?
- [33:49]
Sunny Williams
Like, how are you guys out here with multiple multiples?
- [33:54]
Host (possibly Sri La Green)
Exactly, exactly. That's exactly same same, you know, so, you know, I, I wish I had that, that wealth of knowledge to draw on, you know, and to ask those questions of even asking like, what did stop you, you know, or what, what held you back or what helped propel you forward. Right. Those are, I think, great probing questions. Having that frame of reference to what our previous generations have gone through can help inform our decisions and help almost firm us, make us feel more firm
- [34:23]
Cyrila Roy Greene
in those decisions sometimes.
- [34:27]
Host (possibly Sri La Green)
While also, of course, having boundaries and all that other stuff. For sure, if somebody doesn't have a healthy relationship with extended family, older generations, things like that, you know, what are some other ways that they can seek intergenerational wisdom? Like what are some other methods or means that they could do that?
- [34:47]
Sunny Williams
The first would be like to look around you, look into your community. I know a lot of times when we speak about use your village, it's usually around parenthood, like rely on your village. But even if you are not a parent, it's still very important to have a sense of community. And if you don't have that with your family, you need to find ways to build that for yourself. So that looks like getting involved in your community. You can always volunteer, right? Volunteering is always a wealth of just experience. I will say that just people you get to meet from when you volunteer or you can lend your time to, you know, go into some, some elderly homes, see how you can help, see how you can expand someone else's life. And that's also very enriching in a way that you. A breadth of Knowledge, and then also look for mentorship. Like, depending on what your work looks like, look out for mentors. Reach out and extend that. Right? Extend it. Don't be afraid to ask for what it is you feel like you may need, what you might be looking for. And so if you don't have that in your family, don't be afraid to go out there and build it for yourself.
- [35:53]
Host (possibly Sri La Green)
I think. I think that's great. Great advice, great wisdom. So, Sunny, one of our listeners, we had another listener question kind of come in, and it's a really good question. If trauma isn't meant to be inherited, why does it behave like an heirloom? And how can one generation choose not to pass it on?
- [36:16]
Sunny Williams
Oh, I love that in heirloom.
- [36:18]
Host (possibly Sri La Green)
So good.
- [36:18]
Sunny Williams
An heirloom trauma.
- [36:20]
Host (possibly Sri La Green)
Good.
- [36:21]
Sunny Williams
I love that.
- [36:23]
Host (possibly Sri La Green)
I love it, too.
- [36:25]
Sunny Williams
Let's not. Let's circle back to the trauma piece, right? Because you spoke about being raised by your grandmothers and your mother and how you were able to see your mom as a working mom. So then it became the norm for you. Right. And it'll become the norm for your daughters unless they choose differently. So it can. It doesn't necessarily have to be trauma. We can get to that because a lot of. A lot of times people talk about it's kind of trendy, like healing trauma and, you know, breaking generational curses. I am with all of that. But there needs to be something said for the positive things that can also be an heirloom of sorts. Because you had that role model you were able to see, oh, that's. That's normal and same. My mom worked in higher education. She was a principal. She wore power suits. And so I was like, oh, I'm going into the corporate world. I'm wearing heels every day. That did not last, but I had that. I had that role model to be like, I'm going to be a working woman, and I'm going to take over the world. And that was the norm in our household. So it can go both ways. So I would first say examine. Is there anything, Anything positive that you've been able to. To take from a previous generation that you see in yourself that's very constant, very present that you can kind of attach to. Oh, I. I got that from somewhere, and I'm. I'm proud of that. And then on the flip side, from a trauma lens, you have to do the work. And that's. That's the not so fun part. If you want to change something that you have seen for generations, you cannot expect for it. To be easy. You cannot expect for it to be be swift because a lot of that is ingrained in us. Like we may want to say, no, it's not. But I mean there, there's science behind it. We, we do carry, we do carry trauma. And so you have to be willing to do the work for yourself at first and then once the work is done, then future generations that possibly come from you will reap the benefits.
- [38:25]
Host (possibly Sri La Green)
Well, Sunny, thank you so much for joining us today. This was a fantastic conversation. I really enjoyed having you.
- [38:34]
Sunny Williams
Yes, thank you so much. I thoroughly, thoroughly enjoyed my time with you today. Sheila.
- [38:40]
Cyrila Roy Greene
I want to give a big thank you to Better Help for their passion for this project and for giving us a platform to champion the well being in all of us. Mind if We Talk? Is produced by Acast Creative Studios in collaboration with Better Help and hosted by me, Sri La Green. If you like what you just heard, drop us a review in Spotify or Apple podcasts and share the episode with your friends. Maybe one of our topics will help someone in your life and remember your happiness matters. Mind if We Talk? Is intended for entertainment and education, not for mental health diagnosis or medical advice.