2496: Machines Are Better Than Free Weights for These 3 Things (Listener Live Coaching)

Summary

Podcast Summary: Mind Pump: Raw Fitness Truth Episode: 2496: Machines Are Better Than Free Weights for These 3 Things (Listener Live Coaching)
Release Date: December 25, 2024
Hosts: Sal Di Stefano, Adam Schafer, Justin Andrews
Produced by: Doug Egge

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1. Introduction to the Episode

In this episode of Mind Pump: Raw Fitness Truth, the hosts delve into a live coaching session where they address listener questions related to fitness programming and nutrition. The episode centers around the provocative topic: "Machines Are Better Than Free Weights for These 3 Things." Throughout the discussion, Sal, Adam, and Doug blend their extensive experience to debunk myths, present science-backed insights, and offer practical solutions for enhancing muscular development and overall health.

---

2. Machines vs. Free Weights: The Core Discussion

a. Training to Failure

Sal Di Stefano initiates the conversation by asserting, "Machines are actually better than free weights for building muscle, but only for the following three things." [03:57]

The hosts agree that when training to failure, machines offer significant safety advantages. Doug Egge emphasizes, "It reduces the risk," [04:04] highlighting that machines provide a controlled environment, minimizing the danger of injury compared to free weights, especially during high-intensity training. Sal elaborates, noting that machines prevent the barbell from shifting unpredictably, thereby maintaining proper form and reducing the chance of compensatory movements that can lead to imbalances or injuries.

b. High Volume Training

Adam Schafer discusses the benefits of machines in the context of high volume training, stating, "Very, very small muscle groups targeting very specific muscle groups or imbalances." [04:22]

Machines allow athletes to perform more sets with reduced recovery time. Sal concurs, pointing out that machines enable higher volume without disproportionately taxing the central nervous system (CNS), which is crucial for advanced lifters aiming to maximize muscle hypertrophy without overtraining.

c. Training with Injuries

When addressing training around injuries, Doug shares his perspective: "This is where I always found the most value of machines is with my clients where there were limitations." [11:16]

Machines offer a fixed track and stabilized movements, making them ideal for individuals recovering from surgeries or managing injuries. Sal adds that as long as the correct machine is selected and properly fitted, athletes can effectively train without exacerbating existing issues.

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3. Personal Experiences and Anecdotes

The hosts share personal anecdotes to illustrate their points. Adam Schafer reflects on his early training days, admitting, "I use a lot of machines for, like bringing up a lagging body part," [05:17] while Sal discusses the historical context of high-intensity training with machines, referencing legends like Mike Mentzer and Dorian Yates who championed machine use for specific muscle targeting.

Doug recounts his practice of adding machines after compound lifts to increase volume, stating, "I always found the most value of machines is with my clients where there were limitations." [09:25]

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4. Listener Questions and Live Coaching

a. Children in Sports and Club Sports

Caller 1, Jennifer from California, raises concerns about club sports' pressure on children, emphasizing the importance of variety in sports participation for young athletes. She inquires about top researchers who advocate for multi-sport involvement to enhance overall athleticism.

Sal Di Stefano responds by reinforcing that data clearly supports the benefits of multi-sport participation, likening it to learning multiple languages for neuroplasticity benefits: "If you speak several languages early on, you'll communicate better even in your native language." [68:24]

Adam Schafer recommends an interview with Chad Wesley Smith from Juggernaut Training, highlighting their comprehensive approach to training youth athletes.

Doug adds, "Pattern overuse... leads towards injury earlier in their career," [69:07] advocating for early specialization's drawbacks.

b. Face Muscle Training and Connective Tissue

Caller 2, Irina from Canada, questions the feasibility and efficacy of face muscle training within the aesthetics community. She wonders why more studies aren't focusing on building facial muscles to prevent sagging and loss of volume.

Sal Di Stefano acknowledges the challenge, noting, "You can definitely build any muscle, but the face presents unique challenges." [75:16] He discusses the limited resistance options for facial muscles and contrasts it with the aesthetics industry's preference for treatments that atrophy facial muscles, like Botox.

Adam Schafer emphasizes the importance of a balanced approach, suggesting, "Extra protein doesn't get converted to fat unless it's extra calories." [86:24] reinforcing that overall diet and strength training contribute more significantly to body composition than isolated muscle training.

Doug concurs, mentioning products like Jawsercise and cautioning against imbalances that can lead to jaw issues.

c. Muscle Potential and Fat Storage

Caller 2 also brings up the concept from The Sports Gene about a maximum muscle-to-bone ratio and concerns about proteins converting to fat through gluconeogenesis.

Sal Di Stefano counters this by simplifying the concept: "Extra protein doesn't get converted to fat unless it's extra calories." [86:24]

Adam Schafer adds, "It's an oversimplification. It's all about caloric balance." [87:03] stressing that muscle gain and fat storage are fundamentally tied to calorie intake relative to expenditure.

d. Programming and Nutrition During Bulking and Cutting

Caller 3, Brian from California, seeks advice on programming and nutrition while managing a bulking phase and cutting simultaneously. He fears that a light cut might impede the benefits of a symmetry program aimed at correcting lifting imbalances.

Sal Di Stefano reassures, suggesting that a mild deficit won't significantly hinder normalization exercises: "Correctional exercise can definitely be done very effectively through a mild cut." [94:04]

Adam Schafer explains, "Hovering around maintenance to a slight deficit allows for both cutting and stability work." [94:07] He recommends a balanced approach where Brian can continue with his symmetry program without the need for aggressive caloric restriction.

Doug emphasizes the importance of maintaining proper CNS adaptations and muscle recruitment patterns even during a slight cut.

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5. Additional Insights

a. The Primacy of Diet Over Exercise

Throughout the episode, the hosts assert that while exercise is crucial for health and muscle development, diet plays a more pivotal role in body composition. Sal states, "If you go to the gym consistently... you can get strong, you could get fit," but without proper diet, weight loss remains challenging.

b. Body Composition vs. Aesthetics

The conversation often veers into the distinction between health-focused fitness and aesthetic-driven approaches. The hosts advocate for science-backed methods over mythological beliefs prevalent in the fitness industry, emphasizing that fitness level is a stronger predictor of health outcomes than metrics like BMI.

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6. Conclusion and Final Thoughts

The episode wraps up with the hosts reflecting on the importance of consistency in diet and exercise, recommending listeners to focus on mastering foundational movements and maintaining adequate protein intake. They discourage overcomplicating fitness routines with conflicting information, reinforcing the message that simple, sustainable practices yield the best results.

Sal Di Stefano concludes, "Strength train, eat a high protein diet, stay hydrated, and avoid processed foods," summarizing the core principles discussed throughout the episode.

---

Notable Quotes

• Sal Di Stefano: "Machines are actually better than free weights for building muscle, but only for the following three things." [03:57]
• Doug Egge: "It reduces the risk." [04:04]
• Adam Schafer: "Extra protein doesn't get converted to fat unless it's extra calories." [86:24]
• Sal Di Stefano: "You can definitely build any muscle, but the face presents unique challenges." [75:16]
• Adam Schafer: "It's an oversimplification. It's all about caloric balance." [87:03]

---

Key Takeaways

1. Machines vs. Free Weights: Machines are superior to free weights for training to failure, high volume training, and training with injuries due to their safety and ability to target specific muscle groups without overtaxing the CNS.

2. Importance of Variety in Youth Sports: Encouraging children to participate in multiple sports enhances overall athleticism and reduces injury risk, contrary to the early specialization promoted by some club sports.

3. Diet Over Exercise for Body Composition: Achieving and maintaining optimal body composition is more dependent on diet than exercise. Proper caloric balance and protein intake are essential.

4. Facial Muscle Training: While theoretically possible, training facial muscles is challenging and often counteracted by aesthetic industry practices like Botox, which aim to atrophy facial muscles.

5. Consistency and Simplicity: Mastering fundamental movements and maintaining consistent dietary habits yield the best long-term fitness and health results.

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For more detailed insights and expert advice, listeners are encouraged to visit mindpumppodcast.com and follow the hosts on Instagram @mindpumpmedia, @mindpumpsal, @mindpumpadam, @mindpumpjustin, and @mindpumpdoug.

Transcript

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[Sal DiStefano]

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[Justin Andrews]

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[Doug]

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We get serious ones. I've talked with meth dealers on their way to prison. I've talked to people who survived mass shootings, crazy funny ones. I talked to a guy with a goose slap, somebody who dresses up as.

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If you want to pump your body and expand your mind, there's only one place to go. Mind Pump. Mind Pump.

[Justin Andrews]

With your hosts, Sal Destefano, Adam Schaefer and Justin Andrews.

[Sal DiStefano]

You just found the most downloaded fitness, health and entertainment podcast. This is Mind Pump, right? In today's episode, we answered live callers questions. People called in, we got to coach them about their fitness on air. But this was after the intro. The Intro today was 61 minutes long. Now in the intro, we talk about fitness studies and science and workouts and family stuff and current events. It's good time. Then we got to the live callers. If you want to Call in and have us coach you on air. Email us your [e-mail] now, this episode is brought to you by some sponsors. The first one is Organifi. Today we talked about their product Harmony. This is for women to help them balance out their hormones or to ease the symptoms of PMS. And if you go to Organifi shop.com Products Harmony, you'll get 24% off. Just use the code MINDPUMP. This episode is also brought to you by Butcherbox. Butcherbox delivers grass fed meat, wild caught fish, crate free pork to your door at incredible prices. Today we talked about their grass fed ground beef. By the way, new users right now will get 2 pounds of grass fed and finished ground beef included in every box for the lifetime of your subscription. So it's included, you don't have to pay extra for it. And you'll get $20 off just go to butcherbox.com mindpump also, we have some sales on some workout programs this month. Maps Aesthetic and maps symmetry, both 50% off. If you're interested, go to mapsfitnessproducts.com, but you have to use the code 1250 for that discount. All right, here comes the show.

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[Adam Schafer]

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[Sal DiStefano]

Machines are actually better than free weights for building muscle, but only for the following three things.

[Doug]

Stop it.

[Adam Schafer]

Don't even go in this direction. You don't even believe what you say. You don't even believe what you say.

[Doug]

No, I do.

[Sal DiStefano]

For certain types of training, I think machines do have.

[Doug]

It reduces the risk. Right. So there's value with that.

[Sal DiStefano]

Right, right.

[Doug]

Very harder.

[Adam Schafer]

Very, very small muscle groups targeting very specific muscle groups or imbalances.

[Sal DiStefano]

I could quote, unquote, isolation.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah, of course.

[Sal DiStefano]

Yeah, yeah, I could see that.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah.

[Sal DiStefano]

When you were, when you were training as a physique competitor, is that what you would use machines a lot?

[Adam Schafer]

I use a lot of machines for, like bringing up a lagging body part, targeting a very specific area.

[Sal DiStefano]

Because you could really just focus on.

[Adam Schafer]

Concentrating yeah, like for example, I've heard who's the. Who's Dr. Mike Israel come out and talk about like some exercises that I love, using cables or machines for rear delts, for example.

[Sal DiStefano]

Oh yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

And somebody might think that we would disagree on that conversation. But it's not that we disagree, it's that I think it's nuanced. I. Those, I love those exercises, but I love, I also am making sure I already checked the box.

[Doug]

There's a priority list.

[Adam Schafer]

That's right. There's like I'm doing the barbell shoulder press first and dumbbell Arnold presses well before I'm doing my bent over reverse cable fly.

[Sal DiStefano]

Right.

[Adam Schafer]

You know where I'm flying. You know what I'm saying? So, so, so, yes. So there's a lot of, I think examples, but I love those because, man, I could just target just the rear delt and, and get to that.

[Sal DiStefano]

I could see that. I mean the first thing for me that came up was if you're doing really high intensity failure style trucks.

[Doug]

Yep.

[Sal DiStefano]

If you're trained to failure and a little context. Bodybuilders have used failure for decades, but Arthur Jones, the inventor of Nautilus equipment, championed a style of training where it was very, very low volume but extremely high intensity. Okay. So rather than doing at the time doing the what was considered traditional bodybuilding training, which at the time was like 20 sets per body part, this was like during the heyday of bodybuilding, maybe the early 70s, he said, no, let's do like one or two sets, but we're going to failure and beyond. I can definitely see machines being valuable for this because of the inherent risk of going to failure with the free weight. You know, if you go to failure on a barbell squat, as fatigue sets in and form starts to break down, especially if you're strong, it's exposing, very exposing and dangerous. You do failure on a leg press with your safeties? Not so much.

[Adam Schafer]

Not only that, Sal. So obviously that I think that's a great point. Safety, but even technique and form wise.

[Sal DiStefano]

Yeah, right.

[Adam Schafer]

Like if you, if you, everyone in here has done a close to failure squat before.

[Sal DiStefano]

Right.

[Adam Schafer]

And that last rep didn't look pretty.

[Sal DiStefano]

The last three reps.

[Adam Schafer]

Right, right. Didn't look pretty. You probably, you know, cheated it up a little bit. Shimmied left or right to get like.

[Doug]

Right there asymmetry in there. There's.

[Adam Schafer]

And even if you didn't get hurt, not I, not ideal for developing a symmetrical balance body. And so whereas if I was leg pressing to failure, I Mean, I could keep everything perfect.

[Sal DiStefano]

Yeah, Even if you move, the platform doesn't. Or if I'm doing even a basic chest press to failure on a machine, if I move with the barbell, the barbell's moving with me. And now it's going to encourage or enhance the poor technique. Right. As I shift, the bar shifts. Now it's shifting even more and I'm fatigued. If it doesn't hurt me, I'm just doing a really bad technique. Exercise versus pushing a machine. It's fixed. The machine's not going to move. Even if my body moves, which is less than ideal, the machine itself isn't going to move. And now what's funny is that again, Arthur Jones, who trained Mike Mentzer, who wrote Heavy Duty, he's the first guy to popularize this style of training. Later on influenced Dorian Yates, who won Mr. Olympia, I think six times in the 90s, who trained this way. He called it blood and guts. He named it something else. And there's been other iterations of this style of training. They always, they almost always use a lot of machines. I mean, Mike Mentzer talked a lot about using machines. Again, this is in the 70s when machines weren't nearly as prolific. During, Yates made hammer strength equipment famous. He was the one that made hammer strength so popular, and he used them quite a bit. His favorite machines, he liked the pullover machine. Then he liked to use the ISO lateral, you know, row machine and that kind of stuff. And he did free weights as well. But going to failure with the machine, in my experience, especially if you're advanced, I think they have the edge to free weights in many of these cases. Now, I think most people shouldn't train to failure most of the time, but if you do and you know what you're doing, I think machines have the advantage here. The second thing that I thought of was high volume training. If you really want to push volume, free weights damage the body more. They require more recovery. I could do probably 10 to 20% more sets with machines than I can with free weights. With the recovery being around the same.

[Doug]

I could see that. I mean, I, I would tend to add the machines after I got the compound lifts and the barbell training, just again, to add volume to whatever body parts specifically I'm trying to bring up. So, I mean, that makes sense. If you're going to do the whole thing, machine training, I'm sure you could do a good jillion reps. Well, this.

[Adam Schafer]

Was the point I was just making.

[Sal DiStefano]

Yes, right.

[Adam Schafer]

Like this. That's, that's this point is aligns with what I said, which is, you know, of course I'm going to do the barbell shoulder press. Did all sort of that. But hey, I'm, I'm trying, I'm between shows trying to build up my rear delts. I've already done, I've checked the box on. But I want to add more volume. But I also recognize how taxing that can be on my cns. And, and, and I don't need to do that to still just get some added volume. Let me go do machines that could be less damaging and less risk of overtraining.

[Sal DiStefano]

That's right. You know, even if you use equivalent exercises. Right. Do a seated shoulder press with dumbbells or a barbell versus a seated shoulder press with machines. You could probably get away with more sets of the machine. All things being equal, because the stability component isn't there, it's not damaging to the body in the same way. So if you like to spend a lot of time in the gym. And this again is why I think a lot of bodybuilders like machines. They're doing so much volume so often.

[Adam Schafer]

Yes.

[Sal DiStefano]

That they find that they respond better with machines. Not necessarily because machines are better, but rather because they can handle more volume with machines, whereas they have to cut the volume down. Going with free weights. I mean, think of another exercise like a row. Think of a row with free weights. Think of doing 10 sets on that versus a machine row. Think about how you're going to feel the next few days, one versus the other. It just requires less. And then lastly, and this is the main reason why machines were invented, training with injuries. You know, machines are so long as the right machine is used and it fits the person, because free weights have an advantage of being able to mold to the person versus the person having to mold the machine. But if the person fits the machine, it's great because the stabilization component's there, the track is already set, the arm is going to move where it's going to move. And if you have an issue with any kind of an injury, training around it or with the injury tends to be easier.

[Doug]

This is where I always found the most value of machines is with my clients where there was limitations. They're recovering from, you know, surgery, injury, and you want to really make sure it's. It's in a fixed track, in a fixed position. So that way, you know, it's stabilized everywhere else. So any variation in that, you know, we can kind of account for that and make sure that, that, you know, there's not all these other variables that are going to happen that we have to like stabilize.

[Adam Schafer]

So now in these three scenarios, is there ever a sit in these where you see all machines? Because most all of them are an example of like free weights and then, then you get to this point or yeah, it's like you don't see, you don't ever see a situation where you.

[Sal DiStefano]

Just avoid free weights? Yes, no, no, no, I don't think so at all. I think free weights overall have more value generally speaking, but especially when you're talking to the advanced lifter who's been working out for a long time, who's looking to add novelty. Variety is going to be changing things up. They've developed a good squat, they developed a good late, you know, deadlift and overhead press and row and they're, you know, they've been doing this for a year, two years consistently and they're like, you know, I'm going to experiment with high intensity, low volume training or I'm going to go real high volume or oh, I have a little bit of this injury, I want to train around then. Machines can be quite valuable and you can find a tremendous amount of value with them. But yeah, that being said, no, I think overall, we've talked about this many times, free weights have more value overall. But again, from what I just said, I mean, you know, I did this for a while, right? For a while there I was experimenting with just machines and I just found that I could do a lot more volume. Like I could spend more time in the gym and do more volume because it didn't require nearly as much recovery. Now someone listening might be like, well what? Who cares? Okay, so you get the same results with more time. Wouldn't you rather do less time? Not everybody, not necessarily. First off, I like spending time in the gym. There's some value to that just from the enjoyment of it, if that's you. But also I think there's some value in doing more volume with less damage from a novelty aspect because I did see better gains from, from training that way. Now didn't stay with me. Of course I had to go back and change my training up again. But for like a three month period, you know, I saw some great value.

[Doug]

It's fun. I mean it's, it's, it's a totally different mindset. I just have to always check myself because it's hard to get full range of motion with these machines. And so you do feel the difference when that, that doesn't translate well towards just any kind of no freestanding object.

[Sal DiStefano]

No. And you're also, you're, you're an athlete. I mean, you train. Yeah.

[Doug]

The mo. The movement starts to suck. You know, if you just stick with.

[Sal DiStefano]

I would not do a bunch of machine training for athletes. That doesn't make any sense whatsoever.

[Doug]

There's some athletes that do that. It drives me crazy.

[Sal DiStefano]

Yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

I mean, I wouldn't do a lot no matter what, because I, this was a mistake I made as a young lifter. I would have heard this conversation.

[Sal DiStefano]

Use it as an excuse.

[Adam Schafer]

Yes. And use it as excuse to skip squats. You know, skip. I skip the deadlift. I would have been like, oh, see.

[Doug]

I could just do like just look jacked and whatever.

[Adam Schafer]

And I, I mean it got, I mean, I, I built a decent physique. I'd say I was all right, you know, I.

[Sal DiStefano]

Did you do mostly machines back in the day?

[Adam Schafer]

Oh yeah.

[Sal DiStefano]

Oh, wow.

[Adam Schafer]

Oh, yeah. I mean I really, Honestly, guys, I didn't, I didn' really start. I intermittently squatted. Didn't deadlift at all. Deadlifting was like, was your free weights.

[Sal DiStefano]

Relegated to like curls, laterals, that kind of stuff where you didn't do the big compound.

[Adam Schafer]

I did, I did, I did dumbbell. Dumbbell and barbell bench press. I did, I never did barbell shoulder press. I did dumbbell shoulder press, barbell rows. Never. Rarely did barbell rows.

[Sal DiStefano]

Mostly you trained like a, like a, like the, like Flex magazine bodybuilding.

[Adam Schafer]

Yes.

[Sal DiStefano]

I see.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah. For, for, for a big portion. First 10 years of my lifting and again built in all right physique. But boy, when I found barbell, back squat, deadlift, bent over row barbell shoulder. Holy.

[Sal DiStefano]

Yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

And it was such a. And the cr. I did, you know, I trained the way I'm explaining for many years as a trainer. So I was a trainer and I was way in the camp of form. Technique, filling the muscle. That was a pr. That was the priority for me. So I was a stickler on form and technique and feeling and, and training right to failure, but not breaking form and, but with machine, but with machines a lot of times. And that was why I think I liked machines a lot of times because it was. I could be. Have real strict good perfect form and really feel the muscle.

[Sal DiStefano]

Yeah. As from a trainer perspective, I, you're, you're going to get way more value teaching your client how to do a difficult exercise like a squat. The problem is as a trainer is you can't tell for a little while. See, on a machine. I could put a client on a Leg press, who's never worked out, and just see strength gains, you know, right out the gates. Teaching them how to do a squat, sometimes it takes two months to get them just hold a barbell.

[Adam Schafer]

Not only that, Sal, but a lot of our job too, was, you know, you felt like you needed to entertain the client.

[Sal DiStefano]

Razzle dazzle.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah. And so, you know, which is so crazy. So if you're a young trainer and you're listening to this, like, if I could go back and do it all over again, granted, I'd have the. I'd have better ways to communicate today than I probably did back then. I see more value in training almost all my clients on, like, two exercises.

[Sal DiStefano]

Yes, right. Yes.

[Adam Schafer]

And just teaching them how to master that. Like, if. Like, knowing now, like, if I get a hold of, like, a. For example, a family member or a close friend of mine that I actually spend the time personal training them, like, helping them out, they'll. They'll come see me, and they may think they're gonna get a workout from. I'm like, all we're gonna do today, I'm gonna show you how to squat.

[Sal DiStefano]

Yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

We're gonna work on mobility. Yeah. Then I'm gonna look at it like, oh, yeah, you got ankle mobility stuff. Then I get them down. We're gonna work on ankle mobility. And I'm explaining to them why their squad is breaking down for these reasons why they need to do this. Then I show when they elevate the hills. Look at where you're being able to get that. Like, I would be all. Like, the whole hour would be that.

[Sal DiStefano]

You know what's funny?

[Adam Schafer]

That's it.

[Sal DiStefano]

What you're saying, Adam, is I trained what you just said the second half of my career, and I was like, my clients stayed with me longer, and I did better.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah.

[Sal DiStefano]

Even though I thought early my career that would bore people.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah. Right.

[Sal DiStefano]

Oh, we're just going to do one or two exercises. No, I got to show them five ones they've never even seen before.

[Doug]

You want is what gives them results.

[Sal DiStefano]

Yes.

[Doug]

You know, you have to kind of push through the mundane side of it and engage with them and educate them.

[Adam Schafer]

I fell in. I fell into this, the exact trap that we teach on here all the time, of the. The razzle dazzle, the making my clients feel like it was such a hard workout. Right. Sweating like crazy, burning like crazy, sore like crazy. And so I fell into that trap of feeling like I needed to do that to make them feel like I was valuable for them to keep coming back versus Me being confident in my abilities and going like, no, let me tell you something. I'm going to change your life. If I teach you how to squat and deadlift and overhead press with good technique, I'm going to change your life. And it's going to be. And being able to say things. Be calm enough to say things like this. Like, it might take us a while and, you know, you're going to suck at it for a while. We're not going to see a lot of results at first, but let me tell you once again, which is so crazy, because it's no different than if you got a hold. If a pro golfer. Yeah, right. Or a pro driver. Any.

[Doug]

Any instrument.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah. Or an instrument. Name. Name a Name a thing.

[Sal DiStefano]

It's the difference between doing like a kickboxing cardio class and actually having a. Yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

Or a pro boxer. Name a pro. Name a pro at anything else that would get a hold of you and teach you to become the greatest guitarist, the greatest driver, the greatest. Name. Name the thing.

[Sal DiStefano]

They're not gonna be like, just hit.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah, they would be. They would be like, all right, now this chord. Now this. And try this. And they'll throw this. It'd be like, we're gonna. We're gonna master the jab. That's all we're doing this month. You know what I'm saying? And they would just. And you'd be like, why am I doing this one thing? And you're like, listen, we gotta lay that. Which is crazy that our trainers. We included. Okay.

[Sal DiStefano]

Yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

Don't do that. And that's how it should. Like the people that are hiring trainers and the people that are wanting to get better and really see the results. Like, that's it, man. Those four. Those four movements. Master those. And if you're not already master, take the time to become a master at it, because it will pay you back so much more. Versus what I can't stand in our space, which are the trainers that feed into that type of. Oh, the difference between a hack squat on the machine and a barbell backsword. There's not much of a difference in hypertrophy, so there's no. You should. Just this idea that everybody needs a barbell back squat. Silly. And we should teach like you can. There's not. It's not for everybody. We should go. No. It's such a terrible, terrible message. Even. Even if there's some truth. Okay. To the. The hypertrophy component of it. There's so much more to it.

[Sal DiStefano]

More. Far more.

[Adam Schafer]

Yes.

[Sal DiStefano]

Than just that. Yes, 100%. You know, I just read a study speaking of you know, fitness, I just read, read an interesting study. I love your guys input on this. So the study was done. Let me get where it was done. This was done at the University of Virginia. And what they show in the study, this is, we knew this already but what they found, they did a systemic review and made an analysis and they found that fitness. So your ability to perform.

[Adam Schafer]

Right.

[Sal DiStefano]

And they used cardiorespiratory fitness as, as a measurement. So like how fit someone is. Right. That's a stronger predictor of both cardiovascular disease and all cause mortality than BMI is. So it's, it's how fit you are is a better predictor. Now that's not to say that BMI doesn't matter or how heavy you are, how much body fat you carry, that still matters, but your fitness level matters more. If you had to compare one to the other with your all cause mortality. In other words, it is true that you could be overweight, overweight and fit. And, and you will derive protective benefits from being fit.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah.

[Sal DiStefano]

And I think this is good news for people who work out and struggle with diet. Because diet, if you don't get the diet down, it's really hard to lose weight even with workouts. Especially with, with no diet like workouts aren't going to make you lose weight. It's just very difficult. So you're, you're trying to work, you're working out, you're consistent, you're going to the gym, you're getting stronger, you're more fit, you have more stamina, you can't figure out the diet, which is very common. Many of my clients figured out the fitness before they figured out the dot. The diet. In fact, that was the, that was more often than not the, the order.

[Doug]

Well, I wish this made its way to the general practitioner where they would just, you know, be more concerned with body fat or lean muscle. How much lean muscle do you have? That's a better, it would be way better than bmi. It's just like it's so silly. We use that as a standard still.

[Sal DiStefano]

But even body fat itself, if you're fit, it makes a big difference.

[Adam Schafer]

That's probably what Justin said is such a good point. I mean I wish we would teach that. Right. Like we should have these kind of benchmarks like, or ranges for your height and age or like that of like you should have or want this much muscle.

[Sal DiStefano]

Yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

And it should be focused around that like. Yeah. You know what? This also highlights Sal is that we, we've as a society we are so focused on aesthetics.

[Sal DiStefano]

Yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

We're so what and really what it, what this highlights is that there's actually a really wide range when you talk about body fat percentage and what someone's aesthetic.

[Doug]

Body types.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah, body types. And you, you could be very healthy and fit and it all which of course, I mean you, we, everyone in here has been this way. Like I have been as in my training career, right. Lifting weights and being considered a healthy person or fitness person. I've been as small as like £187 to as big as 240 something. And I've been an unhealthy and a healthy version of each of them. Of each of them.

[Doug]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

It's so, and that's a huge, you.

[Doug]

Know, it's a big wide range.

[Adam Schafer]

It's a 50 pound range. And I can tell you that I have been a sloppy 230, 240 and I've been a jack two, three, like and then, and the same thing on the, the bottom end. And so it's like now to be.

[Sal DiStefano]

Fair, you start to go really far in one direction or the other, right. Then, then it starts to impact your health. Right. But there is a range. Like you could be a man at 10% body fat or 18% body fat which look very different. 10%, 18% look very different. And you could be unhealthy or healthy at either one. But, and this study confirms that like so if you're just getting started, first off, the diet is always harder to nail down than the workout. Like working out. If you go to the gym consistently three days a week, that's three hours out of your week, you can get strong, you could get fit, you could, you could improve your stamina just doing that.

[Doug]

And it's protective.

[Sal DiStefano]

But your diet is every day, all day long, that's a much harder thing to tackle. There's also a lot more, more, it's more complicated to tackle diets. A lot more nuance, a lot more.

[Doug]

A lot more buy in emotion connected.

[Sal DiStefano]

To it, all that stuff. So okay, you're not losing weight, but you're stronger, more fit, you're healthier, you're healthy.

[Adam Schafer]

I will say this though, and this is why again if we say this is our, our single advice, just hit protein like oh, for diet.

[Sal DiStefano]

Yeah, first step. Because that, and avoid process.

[Adam Schafer]

Because, because if one of the most frustrating things for the person who is trying to get fit and they, they take heed to the advice of like hey, I'M not going to over complicate the diet right now and I'm not going to try. And because there is so much nuance, I'm just gonna go at least lift weights, at least train, at least get in better shape. They'll, they'll get a little ways no matter what. Right. Like, I mean just, just moving more and lifting weights is going to make you a much healthier person than the, the regardless. Ye. Right. But you can make a dramatically more of a difference just simply by making protein a focus.

[Sal DiStefano]

That's right.

[Adam Schafer]

And because, because that's the building blocks for muscle, you'll reach a point of ignoring the diet part and just exercising and lifting weights where the body will basically tap. Okay, we're strong, we're strong. We're healthier than what we were before.

[Sal DiStefano]

As far as we can go.

[Adam Schafer]

But as far as we can go without you like giving me more building blocks to build on or keep going. And so I really think that that's always for me, the go to thing for clients. It's like learn these four movements. Just practice them, you know, get, try and get. And don't crush it. Don't go to failure. Just try and get good at those. Practice them in the gym frequently, three days a week if you can. Okay, that's it. And hit your protein intake. Right.

[Sal DiStefano]

And you've got like 75, 85.

[Adam Schafer]

Yes.

[Sal DiStefano]

There.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah. Focus on that for a couple years. Just focus.

[Sal DiStefano]

Oh yeah, you'll see results.

[Adam Schafer]

That's true. And, and really care mostly about just being consistent with those two things. So give yourself a goal. I'm going to try and be consistent for, you know, 20 days because I've never done that before. You hit 20 days and see how far you stretch and oh, you mess up at day 25. Okay, cool. Start over again. Now try and get to 26 days and just keep trying to be consistent with those two things for longer and longer stretches of your, of your life. And watch, and watch how, how dramatic of a difference that makes in your health journey.

[Sal DiStefano]

Dude, I gotta tell you guys, we had Dr. Lauren in the studio and we were talking about hormones and I didn't realize. So I'm on TRT and you know, I try to optimize my hormones, you know, through medication and you know, lifestyle and that stuff. And part of the hormone optimization includes obviously testosterone and then there's DHEA and thyroid, low dose thyroid. And she, she was talking about thyroid, how valuable it is for aesthetic change. This and that. This is all an episode we recorded with her and then she said, you have to take it on an empty stomach and maybe distilled water, like no mineral water and take nothing else with it. Otherwise you don't absorb it.

[Doug]

I wasn't aware of that.

[Adam Schafer]

Never heard that.

[Sal DiStefano]

Otherwise you don't absorb it. Okay, now I, I kind of knew this, but I did hadn't been doing it. So I was taking it with other supplements and I was taking it with electrolyte water and that kind of stuff. So I heard her say this and I said, huh, I'm going to try what she said. So I did. Oh my God, bro. I was on fire.

[Adam Schafer]

Really?

[Sal DiStefano]

Oh, on fire. It took me like three days to adjust to.

[Doug]

Yeah, the first day, I remember you're a little uneasy with it, right?

[Sal DiStefano]

It was like I felt like, oh my God, what's going on? Like I feel like I had extra coffee or something. But she said I wasn't absorbing. This whole time I was taking it. I wasn't absorbing the thyroid. So for anybody who takes thyroid medication as part of the hormone optimization, I think if you have thyroid deficiency, your doctor will be, you know, explicit. But when you go through hrt, they may not make this point. You gotta take it like take it with distilled water, nothing else. Empty stomach for 30 minutes.

[Adam Schafer]

Interesting.

[Sal DiStefano]

Otherwise I was absorbing like 40, probably.

[Doug]

It's a trap.

[Sal DiStefano]

Suddenly I was like, whoa, what the heck is going on here?

[Doug]

Yeah, yeah, I had no idea.

[Adam Schafer]

She was also talking about too, like how most people tend to do better with a little bit higher dose what they normally recommend too.

[Sal DiStefano]

That's right.

[Adam Schafer]

So did you, did you bump and are you still. A little.

[Sal DiStefano]

Yeah, just a little bit. I bumped it. It's a, it was a low dose anyway, but just a little bit. And it's not because I had no. That was low thyroid. It's just the whole hormone optimization, you know, panel type of deal. So I'll let you guys know what's going on with that. Anyway, I've been waiting so many. We record these episodes. So I don't know what's going to happen by the time this airs. Okay. Because. So this is a risk because some. Something might happen by the time this airs. But I've been waiting for Justin for you to come in.

[Doug]

Oh, bro.

[Sal DiStefano]

To talk about the drones.

[Doug]

We were texting back and forth.

[Adam Schafer]

God, I was waiting for you guys. Oh, stuff silly, bro.

[Sal DiStefano]

What do you mean silly? They are. The government is making every statements on this. They are talking about this. Yeah, they are. There are these crazy drones with technology that we're not, you know, familiar with whistleblowers.

[Adam Schafer]

You know how I feel. Explain it. What, what's going on somewhere else? What is really going. Because, bro, I don't know. I've seen all the videos. I've seen the video and like, nothing seems out of this world. Scary.

[Sal DiStefano]

Oh, I don't think it's alien.

[Doug]

And again, it's been kind of explained a little bit more that drones wouldn't be flying at night unless they're trying to find something.

[Sal DiStefano]

Yeah.

[Doug]

Because they don't have the capability to really like, they don't have unless they have infrared and they have all this like crazy technology where they can like see in the dark, which a lot of them aren't outfitted for that. They're honestly, like they said that. I mean, for most videos I've watched that, it's most likely they're trying to hunt down and find something which they've, they've said that it might be a broken arrow, a lost warhead that they don't, they don't have an accounted for.

[Sal DiStefano]

These are like car sized drones too. They're huge.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah, they are huge.

[Sal DiStefano]

And the government, local governments are like, tell us what's going on to the, to our government. Government's like, oh, they're not ours. We don't know what they are. Trump came out and he's like, either shoot him down or tell us what's. What's going on. Yeah, this is wild.

[Adam Schafer]

How is, how has nobody shot one down?

[Doug]

People have taken shots at them.

[Adam Schafer]

Are they.

[Sal DiStefano]

Yeah, you ain't gonna shoot down a drone with your gun, bro.

[Doug]

I mean, it's.

[Sal DiStefano]

You have to be the, you have to be the luckiest of all time.

[Doug]

He didn't get close. Comical to watch.

[Sal DiStefano]

Yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

I mean drones are so popular now.

[Doug]

Yeah.

[Sal DiStefano]

Oh, these are, these are not, you know, these are not.

[Doug]

Well, these are military grade. Right. So again, I mean, but so they have jamming. They have jamming technology. This is what people are like. They think it's alien. No, we have jamming technology already exists.

[Sal DiStefano]

They were flat. People are flying their drones close to them to see and then they'll turn them off and then crash to the ground. You can't get near it.

[Doug]

Aliens.

[Adam Schafer]

Oh, really? I haven't seen that.

[Sal DiStefano]

Now here's why.

[Adam Schafer]

That's why I'm like, can't. Why? Where. How is some random person not flown a drone or. No, they'll flown something close by trying.

[Doug]

To fly their drones towards it. Then they shut them down.

[Sal DiStefano]

Yeah, they got shut down. Here's Why I don't think it's aliens. Because if it's. I definitely don't think if it's an alien. First of all, I don't. I don't think it's too convenient. Here's why I wouldn't think it's aliens. Many of them have these FAA compliant, like lights, you know, that they put on airplane blink a very specific way.

[Doug]

Yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

So nice of the aliens to follow our traffic laws.

[Sal DiStefano]

But hey, you know what? This is scary, though. Responsible. The story is, is that there's a loose nuke that. That lost. Was lost out of Ukraine. It's an escalation of the war. And that they're afraid of a dirty bomb or nuke going off. And so these are gamma detecting or radiation detecting drones and they are trying to find where it is and flying these things over.

[Doug]

Scary. Yeah. Heavily in New Jersey and then in New York.

[Sal DiStefano]

Yeah.

[Doug]

I mean, there's been reports.

[Adam Schafer]

San Jose.

[Doug]

Yeah. Down like San Diego.

[Sal DiStefano]

Now here's the thing. This is like, here's the thing. When you have stuff like this like happening and you start seeing. Everybody's gonna see something, right?

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah. It's like when you, when you buy that off yellow car that nobody has. And I was like, everybody has one. That's how I feel.

[Sal DiStefano]

Like drones are everywhere.

[Adam Schafer]

So I feel like now, you guys, we see one weird drone or something.

[Doug]

Remember when Teslas first came out? Now they're literally everywhere.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah. That's kind of how I feel about drawing.

[Sal DiStefano]

But these ones over New Jersey and some of the Eastern seaboard. Like these ones are legit. Like you're seeing like a lot of them go up.

[Doug]

Yeah.

[Sal DiStefano]

Big. They're shutting down airports as a result. I forgot which airport it was. But they had to, like, they had to ground all their planes because they were. There were so many drones flying over.

[Adam Schafer]

I mean, isn't that. That's how this all started. Was one flew motor, flew into a jet engine.

[Sal DiStefano]

No, that's. That's. That's a report. I don't know if that was.

[Doug]

Yeah, that. There's speculation on that. I know Alex Jones jumped on that one. But it, it was reported that it was a bird that like went into the engine, which does happen.

[Adam Schafer]

No.

[Sal DiStefano]

What's most likely the deal is that either it's the whole psyop thing and then people. Oh, roll their eyes. Psyop.

[Doug]

If you live through Covid, what else do you call like the last couple years, like.

[Sal DiStefano]

And it came out that it was out of a lab, that it was leaked out. You know that, that it was a man made virus. That's what they're saying.

[Doug]

Mass gaslighting.

[Sal DiStefano]

By the way, did you see that that January 6th had like 20 something federal agents in there. Yes, since the getting that got.

[Doug]

Thank you. Yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

So did you see, did you guys, you see Stephen. Stephen A. Smith came out on which has been. Boy, he, he, he lit the left up hard.

[Sal DiStefano]

He's.

[Adam Schafer]

He's. And he's like a well known left hard left leaning guy for a long time.

[Doug]

My friends were like oh, oh. So traumatized by it. Like you know it's. I was trying like okay. But also like I said from the. This has happened before this. They. The agent provocateurs are a real thing.

[Sal DiStefano]

And they psyop us.

[Doug]

It's just like for sure. I mean come on. This has happened in history. You don't think it's going to repeat.

[Sal DiStefano]

So it's either a psyop or there is a threat and there they are searching for something to make sure that something doesn't happen.

[Adam Schafer]

That's such a.

[Sal DiStefano]

This is technology that we don't.

[Adam Schafer]

Such a crazy leap to go to. We're looking for a missing nuke. What the fuck? How did that.

[Sal DiStefano]

Oh because there were, there were, there were people who work in this technology who are reporting and saying they have the capabilities to find radioactive material and that's what they think is happening. So that's worse.

[Doug]

Speculation.

[Sal DiStefano]

It's speculation.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah. That's because I feel okay if something.

[Doug]

Like that right there was a whistleblower and read it.

[Adam Schafer]

But here. Okay. I mean okay, let's.

[Doug]

Which I'll my source. Source Reddit, dude.

[Sal DiStefano]

Yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

Okay.

[Doug]

Suck it.

[Sal DiStefano]

They've been right.

[Adam Schafer]

Let's unpack what we know.

[Sal DiStefano]

Conspiracy theorists are so right lately, man.

[Adam Schafer]

I know. That's why some of this stuff becomes believable now. It's like they're. They're batting a hundred the last like three years or whatever. But let's unpack some of this. Okay. What the things we do know there. These are drones. Military grade. Right? We know this right. There's lots of them over lots of different states now as far as the.

[Sal DiStefano]

Vast majority though are over eastern like New Jersey and D.C. but I'm seeing.

[Adam Schafer]

I'm San Jose. I heard, I've heard Texas. I've heard now I've heard the Middle East. I've. I've all over the country they're popping up.

[Doug]

There's a lot of reports coming in.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah. And I'm seeing videos. I've seen, I've seen The videos on of them. So, okay, if. If a nuke went missing at one point, we knew where it was.

[Sal DiStefano]

That's why I think most of them are in New Jersey. There's a port there. That's why I think most of them are. There is. Because that's where they think it is.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah. Because that's. That. To me, that feels like it would be concentrated all in one area because you. We wouldn't be like, well, it could be in California because it was like, whoa, wait a second. How did that. How'd you. We went missing just two nights ago.

[Sal DiStefano]

That they think they. Where it's at. And then what happens with all the hype is that now people are out with their phones and catching all kinds of weird.

[Doug]

Totally.

[Sal DiStefano]

And now we're just posting videos and.

[Doug]

They'Re just flying their own drones and like. Whoa.

[Sal DiStefano]

Yeah, actually some. There's a lot of videos that are like, AI generated now, people to get views. So there was one that was. There was one where it's like this guy was. He was shooting at it, and you could see his. His tracer bullet. And then. And then.

[Adam Schafer]

X is so good with the AI. Videos are getting so good.

[Sal DiStefano]

I know.

[Adam Schafer]

I mean, I. And you know what? I know they're AI. I still get sucked into watching. I like them. Is that weird? Like, I'm watching something. I know it's been altered by AI, but I'm so curious to see what they do.

[Doug]

I still love those. The architecture, the. The houses and stuff that they come.

[Adam Schafer]

So you know which ones I use.

[Doug]

This place is awesome.

[Adam Schafer]

My favorite. That's popular. And I don't know if you guys. Because we have different stuff we follow, but it's super popular in the sports world to have, like, a coach who. Or a player who's talking about other coaches. Yeah. It's not real.

[Doug]

Like, the end. The press conference. I've seen that. A couple.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah.

[Doug]

Shanahan. And he's.

[Adam Schafer]

Yes. Yeah. Yeah, Exactly. We talk.

[Sal DiStefano]

Did he say that?

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah. Debo's a little. You're like, whoa. He said that you can't help, but you do that. You're like, no, he didn't say. That's all funny. Yeah. Yeah. So those ones that got me sucked in big time.

[Sal DiStefano]

All right. So I wanted to cover one of our sponsors. They have a product they wanted us to talk about. And I looked at the ingredients, and it's legit. This isn't one that any of us use because it's targeted. It's just for women. But organifi. Has a product called Harmony that helps with hormonal imbalances or PMS symptoms. And I looked at the ingredients, and they're legit.

[Adam Schafer]

How does a supplement do that?

[Sal DiStefano]

So there are traditional supplements in there, like chaste berry, that have been shown to reduce some of the more sensitive types of estrogen, for example, or how your body reacts to certain hormones. These are all compounds. Doug, if you could pull it up for me, that would be helpful. There are compounds in there that have been used traditionally to help women with PMS symptoms. Like cramping with sleep.

[Doug]

Herbs in there?

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah.

[Sal DiStefano]

Yes.

[Adam Schafer]

So what would it be? Things that, like, lower inflammation or like. What are. What are these things?

[Sal DiStefano]

Inflammation and help change the type of estrogen from a less reactive. From a more reactive to a less reactive type.

[Adam Schafer]

An herb can do that to a hormone.

[Sal DiStefano]

Oh factor. Oh, oh. Chaste berry has been used for a long time. Oh, yeah. You functional medicine practitioner will use that oftentimes with women. And so maca. Maca's in there. It's good for libido. There's chast tree berry, stinging nettle. So these are all. They've been used for some of them for hundreds of years. So I was looking at their con. I mean, organifi. Does such a good job. Yeah. So again, I don't have. Obviously we don't have.

[Adam Schafer]

Excuse a hippie.

[Sal DiStefano]

Yeah, I know, but, you know, there's a lot. We have a lot of female callers that sometimes will call in and talk about some of these symptoms. And they're young. It's like, okay, I don't go on, you know, hormone replacement therapy. Or maybe not even young. They're just like, you know, hormones are balanced. But I have these symptoms. This might be a good first place to.

[Adam Schafer]

Is it something you make like a tea? Is that kind of like what you would do?

[Sal DiStefano]

No, you mix it with water. Tastes good.

[Adam Schafer]

Oh, just.

[Sal DiStefano]

Yeah, I tried it a little.

[Doug]

Just help angry dudes. Maybe the experiment.

[Sal DiStefano]

Why? Do you need something for you? I don't know. Maybe. Yeah. I don't know.

[Doug]

Something to take the edge.

[Sal DiStefano]

There's one person here, most likely.

[Adam Schafer]

I was waiting for it. Prick. I was waiting for it. Right there. Go ahead. I have not. What was the last time you guys called me moody? What's the last time? Moody? Maybe I've been a little moody with Doug lately. Yeah, I've been snapping it.

[Sal DiStefano]

Look at Doug over there.

[Doug]

Doug's like, I'm tired of his.

[Sal DiStefano]

Yeah, I feel like Doug shows nothing until it's too late. So you got to be careful.

[Adam Schafer]

Oh, yeah. Doug's a ticking time bomb.

[Sal DiStefano]

Oh, yeah. Yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

Quiet.

[Sal DiStefano]

He's going to jump over the desk and stab you.

[Adam Schafer]

Don't do it.

[Sal DiStefano]

Doug, tell me before, please. Was there a. Was there a tornado that came down, bro? And.

[Doug]

Yes, this guy.

[Adam Schafer]

Backyard.

[Sal DiStefano]

Wait, literally.

[Doug]

I mean, not literally my backyard, but like Scott's Valley, which.

[Adam Schafer]

That's like your backyard.

[Doug]

Yeah, it was right there.

[Sal DiStefano]

My tornadoes don't happen here. What's happening?

[Doug]

My son had like a mock car right there. Yeah, there was like, again. And you heard more? I heard seven that were flipped, but it just came literally out of nowhere. Like there was. Yeah, there was rain and there was a storm, but it was like totally mild storm. And then all of a sudden, I guess all of the factors were just perfect because you had wind coming from this direction, wind coming from this direction, different temperatures, and then they just combined. And then you saw it literally just start to form. And I saw it all via video. I just. It was five, ten minutes, I think I went through and I was home. Courtney was at this Mexican restaurant which was like down the street. So she was just proximity just far enough away from it, but they could all see it. And originally in her video, which she took, it was like, you saw all these birds just all of a sudden they were trying to find somewhere to land and they couldn't. Then you saw them all circling.

[Sal DiStefano]

Like the birds got caught and then.

[Doug]

And then it like coned and made into like a tornado. And you saw it like just bulldoze through this tree and just like mangle it. And then I guess it lifted a tree up, like this huge tree and like slammed it into the junior high. And so I saw the aftermath of this as I drove by later. But, dude, it was so random and crazy and it's like, what the hell? Like, this isn't Kansas or wherever. Tornado Alley, Oklahoma.

[Sal DiStefano]

How often do tornadoes happen in California? I know they're.

[Doug]

I mean, I've been like five in the last. I looked this up.

[Adam Schafer]

100 years, right?

[Doug]

Yeah, yeah, in the last hundred years.

[Sal DiStefano]

So it's possible. Just rare.

[Doug]

They don't report it because it's so rare. Yeah.

[Sal DiStefano]

Wow.

[Adam Schafer]

I mean, we felt the. The winds in all the way out in Morgan Hill. This is the first year. I'm so glad I did this. I don't know why I did, too. I was just like, you know what? I probably should strap down all of our Christmas stuff.

[Doug]

Oh.

[Adam Schafer]

So I actually, like, staked it all in this year.

[Sal DiStefano]

Thank God.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah. And it was all ripped Up. Yeah. It was all.

[Sal DiStefano]

We have a trampoline in the back. A trampoline is like a big sail. Yeah. In the wind. Yeah. And. And. And my wife would have taken mine off. Yeah. We had our handyman kind of stake it down, but they're like little steaks or whatever.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah.

[Sal DiStefano]

And I'm. I'm like, I don't know. So I took a couple hundred pound dumbbells and put them on the leg.

[Adam Schafer]

Oh, smart.

[Sal DiStefano]

Thank God.

[Doug]

Yeah.

[Sal DiStefano]

Because that thing was.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah. Because I have those steaks that you're talking about. And it ripped those suckers. Right.

[Doug]

Dude.

[Adam Schafer]

Luckily there was. Still. I had so many steak that it, like, some were kind of hanging on still. And I. I went back out and restaked them. But.

[Doug]

Yeah. We personally knew. So this guy, Courtney's friend, like, they had their car parked in that Target parking lot is where it got hit the most. And somebody's car lifted up and it threw it into their truck. What? And so their truck got all smashed up and it was just like, how do you expect. Like all of a sudden, like, you're gonna see cars lifted, like, slammed at you.

[Sal DiStefano]

That's crazy. Did you guys see the lightning?

[Doug]

No.

[Sal DiStefano]

In the morning.

[Adam Schafer]

Who was telling. She said it was. It scared the crap out of her.

[Doug]

Y.

[Sal DiStefano]

East coast and Midwest people right now are like, rolling their eyes. We saw lightning, everybody.

[Doug]

I mean, I saw it a bunch of times when I was in the Midwest. I've seen a bunch of tornadoes and all.

[Sal DiStefano]

Yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

When we lived in. When we lived in Colorado, I watched. We lived in Divide, which is really. I forget what the elevation was. It's right behind Pikes Peak is like, in the backyard. And the thunderstorms were like nothing I've ever seen. So I don't know where else in the country. It's crazy like this, but, I mean, I watched lightning strike the ground like, yards away from me. Oh, yeah. And we're standing in our. Everybody's house has lightning rods. Like, you just. That's part of what you do. You put you. If you. You're so close. It's striking all the time.

[Doug]

We had to call practice a few times because of that. Yeah. And it come in.

[Adam Schafer]

It's a trip because, you know there's a delay right between the thunder and the lightning right there. Unless it's right next to. It's right next to it. So it's like. That's a weird difference. Here in California, we're used to, like, you. You see something and then you hear like.

[Sal DiStefano]

Yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

You hear the delay. And you hear the. You know, but when it's like on you, there's no delay. It's like the same time you're. You're hearing it, you're feeling it, you're seeing it all at once or three.

[Doug]

Practices that were just so memorable because we were in our just helmets and. And shorts and T shirt because we're just running through like a Friday before the game on Saturday and running drills and all of a sudden it was just sunny and everything was kind of temperate like weather wise. And then all of a sudden, just out of nowhere, this storm comes in and it's like right from Canada. It's like all the ice and snow and just like pelting us. And of course was a coach make us do we stay out extra long.

[Adam Schafer]

Of course.

[Sal DiStefano]

Football never stops.

[Doug]

Like I seriously was like blue dude.

[Sal DiStefano]

Bro.

[Adam Schafer]

Hey, speaking of football, did you see the two Texas fans that got thrown in jail this weekend?

[Doug]

No.

[Adam Schafer]

Oh yeah. So obviously this is delayed a little bit. So the. This is like a week, two weeks ago for the listener. There was two students a night. I think a 19 year old and a 20 year old. I don't know if they're students anymore, but there's a big Texas and I forget who game. It was a big, big game. Right. Big college football game. And I guess they had been doing this consistently. They just got caught. But they would. They dress up as construction workers and they would get in and they had like fake IDs. And I guess it worked a bunch of times but this time they got finally caught. And the funny, the best part about it was that their names were. I wrote them down so I wouldn't forget because I die laughing. Because it was in the. Because they got. Oh, they had. Yeah, they had.

[Doug]

Stupidness.

[Adam Schafer]

Oh, dude, they had. Yes, yes, it was.

[Sal DiStefano]

They were.

[Adam Schafer]

So the fact that these guys have been getting away with this for some time. Yeah, One was Harry Asscrack and the other one was of course it was Duncan McCockener or the two names are amazing.

[Doug]

That's something I've been meaning to bring some podcast. Do you guys remember that one report where it was like a plane from Thailand?

[Sal DiStefano]

Yes.

[Doug]

That was coming in or like Vietnam or something.

[Sal DiStefano]

It was a bunch of races, dude.

[Doug]

It's like bang.

[Sal DiStefano]

Ding. Ow.

[Doug]

And like holy fook.

[Sal DiStefano]

No, no, no.

[Doug]

It was a ran on the news.

[Sal DiStefano]

And they didn't figure it out until they get like after 7 names you could tell they're like, oh crap.

[Doug]

I cried laughing because I saw that live. And then like I Shared it. So, like, everybody knew, and it was, like, the best prank of all time.

[Adam Schafer]

Oh, my God.

[Doug]

That guy's a hero.

[Adam Schafer]

I died of these kids. I was like, dude, these guys are champ.

[Sal DiStefano]

Dude, you can literally. I've never done this. But you. I think I heard someone say this, and I think it's true. You could. If you and your buddy are carrying a ladder.

[Adam Schafer]

Ladder trick, bro.

[Sal DiStefano]

You can get in anywhere.

[Adam Schafer]

Y. Like, get in the movies, get into.

[Sal DiStefano]

Stuff like walking with a ladder. And they're like, you're working. Obviously, you're working.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah.

[Doug]

Especially if you're in a walkie talkie. That's even better.

[Sal DiStefano]

Yeah. Because nobody wants to stop you. You know what's funny, by the way, is that if you could do. This is terrible advice, but you could do this in most gyms, you could walk into a gym. You can just.

[Doug]

Again, the White House.

[Sal DiStefano]

You just walk in. If you walk into that shot, you.

[Adam Schafer]

Can take a shot at the president if you have a ladder.

[Sal DiStefano]

Terrible.

[Adam Schafer]

Let's be honest. I mean, that of all the places that we should have high security and a ladder should be. Shouldn't be kicking by. So of course you're gonna get in a game. You know what I'm saying? Yeah. You had a ladder.

[Sal DiStefano]

But a gym. Most gyms, if you just walk through, they won't even say anything. I used to have my front desk. I'd be like, did you not just check that person's card and have to run after them? Yeah, because they're intimidated. Especially the person just walks right by.

[Adam Schafer]

I mean, I was gonna say sometimes if you just do that, like, you just act like you're supposed to be there.

[Sal DiStefano]

I know.

[Adam Schafer]

You know, I saw another, you know, speaking in school and kids, so that this. This kid. I just saw this, too. I don't know. I didn't hear how bad he got hurt or not, but it was a graduation, you know, and they. They. You know, they call your name, and you walk up and do your thing, and afterwards, this kid, you know, grabs this thing, and then he does a backflip. He does a backflip, lands on his head.

[Sal DiStefano]

Of course.

[Doug]

Was like, everybody.

[Sal DiStefano]

Yes.

[Adam Schafer]

Dude.

[Sal DiStefano]

Oh, my God.

[Adam Schafer]

I saw that.

[Sal DiStefano]

He's all. This will be cool. Yeah. Boom. Remembered forever. Yeah. Like the key. The kid who poops himself third grade. That's it. Everybody knows. Hey, it was great. It was great seeing you. I missed. Justin and Doug weren't there because they were sinful.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah.

[Sal DiStefano]

It was nice to see Adam and the rest of the team a lot.

[Doug]

Of time There, dude, that's a lot of stripes.

[Sal DiStefano]

Adam came with. With his family, brought his mom. It was great to see you and your mom and the rest of the church. It was great, man.

[Adam Schafer]

We had. I mean, though we had quite a few. We Quite a few people that were with us. My mom was so happy. You should.

[Sal DiStefano]

My mom, bro.

[Adam Schafer]

She.

[Sal DiStefano]

When I.

[Adam Schafer]

When she hugged me, my mom cried for like. Like an hour. Did she.

[Sal DiStefano]

She whispered in my ear when shocked me.

[Adam Schafer]

I tell you, I, you know, I always tell my mom. I always tell her. Yeah, I know what she tell you? Like, oh, thanks for getting my son. Yes, she did such a. I tell my mom. I tell my mom. I said, I'm. I'm already saved, Mom. Why you. Why you press so hard?

[Doug]

My mom worries.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah, go save somebody else. Already saved, you know, calm down.

[Sal DiStefano]

No, but yeah, she. She was happy and sweet. It was cute to see Max there. He's such a sweet kid. He did what Aurelius did for a long time. Yeah. Because the music, you know, it's so. So my son now loves it, but initially he didn't like the music loud.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah, he was fine still, because he was like. But my son's so funny with stuff like that because we. If I play his music, we can. I can play full as loud as I want. That's just him. I don't want to be here. And I know this works, you know?

[Sal DiStefano]

You know what I'm saying?

[Adam Schafer]

That's so funny. Yeah, he's smart.

[Sal DiStefano]

Where's he get that from?

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah, he's smart. You know, he's. You know what I'm saying? And I just like, calm down, guy. I said, don't worry. We'll. We'll go get a treat afterwards.

[Sal DiStefano]

Did you say it too?

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah, I told myself, take him to get a donut afterwards. And he's like, my kids did great, bro.

[Sal DiStefano]

Because I'd say nine out of ten times we. We have to leave after the music. Like, they like the music. They'll stay for the music. Once the sermon starts, we just started using the iPad. That gives us an extra 10 minutes. And then things get squirrely and then we got to take them out, but they stayed for most of it.

[Adam Schafer]

It was so funny that you had that because as we were pulling up, we were talking about. So, you know, because we. We brought him, like, coloring book and things like that, and we were driving, and we're just like, you know, it's been a while since I've been in church. I'm like, I don't know. Are church. Are churches iPad friendly? Or is that like, like, like you're not supposed to.

[Sal DiStefano]

I think they want your kid not to scream Friendly.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah, I think they're okay. Yeah. So I was. We were. Had. We literally right before we walked in, we were. We were joking about how that we're like, oh, that's probably not. That's not okay. You can't have. You can't have them on that.

[Doug]

Then you had, like, the iPad drawing on the bulletin.

[Sal DiStefano]

You know, we, we, we. We do. Because. Because for the last. For now, since we've been going for the last year, my wife, she tries everything. She's got books and coloring books and activities. She'll lay them out on the floor. We sit in the very front so we have space. She sits on the floor with them and just nothing, nothing, nothing. Every single time we got to take them out. And it's stressful, but we keep going. Mainly because we love the worship music. We can hear some of the sermons sometimes, but it's the people we meet, the people, we build community there. We've got some great friends there, there. But finally she was just like, all right, let's use the iPad. Let's break out the big guns. And it's not a hundred percent, but we made it through like two thirds, which was like a record. And then my. And I had to take my daughter out. I took her out.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah.

[Doug]

We have, like, the hallways, and I mean, they have it set up pretty nice where you can kind of, you know, make it work.

[Sal DiStefano]

Yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

Max is like, this is sad music.

[Sal DiStefano]

Oh, at one point.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah, well, it was.

[Sal DiStefano]

They had the fun music.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah.

[Sal DiStefano]

They played like a solo.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah, yeah.

[Sal DiStefano]

And I hear him in the back and he's like, this is bad. It's so cute. I want to squeeze.

[Adam Schafer]

He's too much, dude.

[Sal DiStefano]

He's a good time. Kids are fun, man. They'll say things and you're just like, where do you get that from?

[Doug]

Yeah, unfiltered. I love it.

[Sal DiStefano]

Oh, that's a good time. Hey, I. I wanted to say something about. About butcher boxes ground beef. I want to bring this up before I forget. I. I like. So grass fed meat typically tastes not as good as grain fed. That's just 100%. Grass fed's healthier. But I personally prefer, on all accounts, grass fed ground beef because of the fat content. It tastes great.

[Adam Schafer]

100% agree.

[Sal DiStefano]

It tastes great, actually, like, the taste better because it doesn't taste as, like, greasy. And it's way easier on my stomach. And I've Been meaning to bring this up because we eat a lot of this, especially with my kids. We make, we mix ground beef with a little taco seasoning, salt and rice and that's like a staple meal for them. And I'll eat some of it too. And I way prefer the grass fed version.

[Adam Schafer]

So that's funny. If we are, if I am cooking, cooking a steak like a rib eye or something like that. The grain fed fattier steaks just they do taste.

[Sal DiStefano]

Sure.

[Adam Schafer]

But at ground beef I'm with you on that. So like we do it feels better. We do Taco Tuesday, right? That's like always at our house, Taco Tuesday. And I, and I love when we have the ground beef from Butcherbox because that leaner meat is so, sits so much better in my stomach. If I have have the tacos with the regular ground beef. They're soft, they get the grease and the fat sit on the top. It'll. I have a couple of those tacos and my stomach is upset.

[Sal DiStefano]

Exactly.

[Adam Schafer]

So I do the ground beef. I prefer to be on that. On the leaner end for sure. Whereas with the meat cuts I like.

[Sal DiStefano]

And then it's just, you know, I always remember this like as a cost effective like healthy meal. That's high protein with some carbs and you can have a side of vegetables with it. It ground beef and rice, throw some salsa on it, a little bit of taco seasoning, salt you can add.

[Doug]

You gotta have that as your staple foundation.

[Sal DiStefano]

That's such an easy meal.

[Doug]

It's just ready to go.

[Sal DiStefano]

Easy meal, healthy, tastes good.

[Adam Schafer]

And we brought it up the last time we talked about Butcherbox and I actually had, I actually had never really counted or paid attention. I didn't realize what, what a difference. The higher protein it was.

[Sal DiStefano]

Yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

So you talk about someone who's. Yeah. Someone who's trying to change if you're going to eat, eat 8 ounces of ground beef that is some percent lean.

[Sal DiStefano]

You know, fat or lean or whatever. Yeah, it's more protein.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah. You're talking about 10, 15 more grams of protein in, in a serving like that. That's a big difference.

[Sal DiStefano]

Totally. So totally. I gotta, I gotta tell you guys about an incredibly emasculating experience ahead over the weekend.

[Doug]

I can't wait.

[Sal DiStefano]

Something we've all experienced before. But it's just for some reason it's extreme. First of all, it's really frustrating but it's also so emasculating. And I just did it again and I'm so mad that I did again. I Scratched my rims.

[Adam Schafer]

Oh, the new ones. The new car.

[Sal DiStefano]

Yes, bro. Not bad.

[Adam Schafer]

Where were you at?

[Sal DiStefano]

But a little bit. I was.

[Adam Schafer]

Starbucks.

[Sal DiStefano]

Yes.

[Adam Schafer]

It was a Starbucks.

[Sal DiStefano]

Yes.

[Adam Schafer]

It's because the way they make those.

[Doug]

Turns, they make it for in the dry.

[Sal DiStefano]

Like what kind of cars.

[Adam Schafer]

I won't even listen. I won't even go through the drive through. If I'm driving one of my cars. I really care. I won't. I literally.

[Sal DiStefano]

How do you go through that without.

[Adam Schafer]

There could be no line. And if, depending on what car I'm in, I park that I go. Because I have curbed it enough times in those driveways.

[Sal DiStefano]

And I hear the sound. It was very minor. And immediately I'm just like, oh, bro, they have that.

[Adam Schafer]

They have like that hairpin sharp turn. And then. And then on top of that, the curb is. You can't really.

[Sal DiStefano]

So low.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah. And it just. I mean, look at it. It looks like everybody. It gets hit, probably.

[Sal DiStefano]

I'm so. I was so mad. I saw. I look at it. Oh, it breaks my heart. And then I'm embarrassed about it. So. You know, I told you guys the last time I did that, I bring it into the dealership and they can polish it out. Looks good. But still, my wife, she knows, she looks at me, she goes, just tell him I did it, honey. Yeah, thanks, babe. I appreciate you. My wife did the ribs again and the guys in there. No. Yeah, right, bro. We've all done that. Oh, it's so annoying.

[Adam Schafer]

That is annoying.

[Sal DiStefano]

Oh, I want to rip them whatever remains in my hair.

[Adam Schafer]

You know, speaking of cars, did you guys see the thing with the EPA? So EPA giving the government the green light by 2035 to be able in California to ban gas cars.

[Doug]

No way.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah, they gave them the right.

[Sal DiStefano]

But are they going to.

[Adam Schafer]

Bro, it's California.

[Sal DiStefano]

But that's. It will destroy California.

[Doug]

Government of California.

[Sal DiStefano]

Here's a few reasons why I don't think it'll happen. Why? I think it's a bunch of posturing to make it look like we're so. Whatever. We don't have the energy grid for it. We're so period, end of story. We get blackouts with our current situation. Now you're going to get everything on the electric grid. That's not going to happen unless they re overhaul.

[Doug]

They don't have the infrastructure to support it.

[Sal DiStefano]

Not at all. The taxes. California's gas is some of the most expensive in America because of the taxes. Where they get that tax revenue from? Yeah, if they eliminate gas, it's not going to happen. And then number three, look at all the gas cars. They're going to force people to switch out for what?

[Doug]

Because like you're assuming that this is better for the environment. And then when you actually look into it, it's like, like not even the case. So what is your case?

[Sal DiStefano]

It's just, it's, it's imposturing. It's a bunch of. It won't happen. I don't think it.

[Adam Schafer]

Did you find it, Doug?

[Justin Andrews]

I did, yeah. I got to find an article I can actually pull up without having to pay for it.

[Adam Schafer]

Oh really?

[Sal DiStefano]

I hate that.

[Adam Schafer]

That's how they get you. That's how they get you those taxes.

[Sal DiStefano]

But how would. Yeah. Biden administration expected to offer a waiver to ban. Yeah, I mean that doesn't mean it's going to happen. I don't think it'll happen. The market has to support it. People have to choose it and then we have to have the grid to support it. It. You know, imagine the blackouts that would happen. We get blackouts now.

[Doug]

I know.

[Sal DiStefano]

Because it's a little hot.

[Doug]

Yeah, yeah. Or PG&E just like, you know, I.

[Adam Schafer]

Mean a lot of these, I know a lot of these car companies have, have gone back on what they originally said because I mean there's a lot of them that came out a couple years ago when we first reported on it that they were all by 2025, going to be fully electric.

[Doug]

Toyota fully backed out.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah.

[Doug]

I mean that should be a signal right there.

[Adam Schafer]

More and more, more and more cars. But then you still see. I mean, I don't know, it's interesting. Interesting. It's going to be really interesting to see where, where car.

[Sal DiStefano]

Here's where I think we'll go fully electric. I think it'll go fully electric. When self driving cars become the norm. That's when it makes sense. Because then the self driving cars either. Most people won't own cars, I don't think. I think it'll become services on an app and they'll go plug themselves in. You'll go on your phone, it'll pick you up and take you because it'll be cost effective. It'll be cheaper for the consumer to have that. Now some people own cars. Cars. But I think most people.

[Adam Schafer]

It'll be like horses.

[Sal DiStefano]

Yeah, I think most people won't own cars in the future because it'll be so much cheaper and cost effective to go on your app and have your, the car come pick you up.

[Adam Schafer]

The only reason why I don't debate that is Because I obviously didn't grow up in a time when all we had was horses. And then horses were on their way out with wagons and then cars and like, I wonder what people probably. I'm sure there's people that were right. I was like, this is ridiculous. We're never going to have horses or not ride horses. Like, like, I'm sure they said that, but God, that. What is sad? I don't know. Yeah, that would be so sad to me. So, So I think it would be.

[Sal DiStefano]

So cost effective because you won't have to pay for the insurance. You have to pay for the upkeep. You'll literally pay first service. And there'll be varying degrees of services from luxury to convenience. Your kids can get picked up and dropped off.

[Doug]

Now you're supporting conflict minerals.

[Sal DiStefano]

What, sorry, what did you call them? Conflict.

[Doug]

Conflict minerals.

[Sal DiStefano]

Oh, my bad.

[Adam Schafer]

I mean, you know how you sell me is like it eliminates traffic.

[Sal DiStefano]

Oh, for sure.

[Adam Schafer]

That is the selling point.

[Sal DiStefano]

For sure.

[Adam Schafer]

That's the selling point. The environment lies. That ain't telling me on that.

[Doug]

You could, you could move me in that direction. Yeah. To get a bunch of people off the road.

[Sal DiStefano]

Well, you'll have a bunch of cars that'll communicate with each other.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah, that's.

[Doug]

You ever stick in traffic, run the same speed?

[Sal DiStefano]

Yes. Have you ever sat in traffic as a kid? I remember thinking as a kid, I was like, why don't we just all move at the same time as a kid, you know? Yeah, that's what happens.

[Doug]

There's always two people just like this that, you know, don't realize there's a fast lane.

[Sal DiStefano]

Yeah.

[Doug]

Can we go back and re. Educate people? You know what a fast lane is?

[Sal DiStefano]

Yeah.

[Doug]

Get out of the way.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah, yeah, that, that's the part that I think that's the part that'll be interesting because I mean, think about it. I mean, most of us have to commute into work. And you know, you, when you come in at work hours, It's. You're adding 20 minutes to your day.

[Sal DiStefano]

You can also work in the car.

[Adam Schafer]

Right.

[Sal DiStefano]

You could have an office car pick you up.

[Adam Schafer]

That's a huge.

[Sal DiStefano]

In the cars.

[Adam Schafer]

But even then. So. Okay, so at least this is how I envision in my life. Is I 100 because I already have like a. The car that I don't care about is my computer, my commuter car that I trash, that I beat up. That's my getting back. So I don't mind. I don't. If I had a shoot automated or a driver and like okay, cool. But I still would want recreationally. I still would want my cars. Like a car that I go, you.

[Sal DiStefano]

Have to drive it on a track.

[Adam Schafer]

See that. That would piss me off. Yeah, I don't want that. I can't believe. I can't imagine that.

[Doug]

Or else it's like freeways would be like. I mean, that's sensible. If you get everybody sort of like, like automated and it's all, you know, in line, but then all the side roads you can.

[Sal DiStefano]

It might be like a phase out. You know what I mean? It might be like the first three lanes are AI serving cars. And there's one lane for everybody that.

[Doug]

Wants commuter lanes of like.

[Adam Schafer]

That's how they would do it. That's how they would do it. And the way they would convert everybody is those three lanes that are automated are better. Way better and faster. And you get to work like. So that would be the selling point.

[Sal DiStefano]

Right.

[Adam Schafer]

I could even my stubborn ass. Who wants to drive if I'm sitting in. In my gas powered car in traffic, sitting, trying to get to work, which is only five minutes away. And they're zipping by like, okay, I'm. I'm cashed. I'm buying one. I'm going in or whatever.

[Sal DiStefano]

Speaking of zip and buy, you know, many times I drive by Adam on the way to work in the carpool lane and I'm by myself in my car.

[Adam Schafer]

I feel like I already used my get out of free jail card. That's why the one cop that let me offer, the fact that he always.

[Sal DiStefano]

Called me, he calls me on the phone. Is that you in the car?

[Adam Schafer]

I feel like that one time, the fact that I was watching kitchen tv, the plates, the tinted windows, the commuter lane, and the cop was cool. Was like, let me go.

[Sal DiStefano]

Yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

I'm like, because what an I am if the same guy gets me again. You know what I'm saying? Doing the same. I kind of deserve a ticket.

[Sal DiStefano]

Forgiven again. We have winners, right? For the.

[Adam Schafer]

Oh, yes. Varsity winners.

[Sal DiStefano]

Yeah, we do. Let's pull those up, by the way.

[Adam Schafer]

Okay.

[Sal DiStefano]

Because the audience connected here.

[Adam Schafer]

Why Doug's pulling it up on the tv. That doesn't work. We had originally it was supposed to be just 200. We had such a great, Incredible.

[Sal DiStefano]

So we were originally gonna give away two winners.

[Adam Schafer]

Yes.

[Sal DiStefano]

But we had such a great response. We added a third one.

[Adam Schafer]

Yes.

[Sal DiStefano]

So three people.

[Adam Schafer]

Christmas spirit.

[Sal DiStefano]

When a five day vacation.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah.

[Sal DiStefano]

At the mine pump park city house. Now, for recap, we did this giveaway where you got entries if you bought a new Program if you bought a bundle, there were more entries. If you got bundled versus just a program to set in the other. So we have three people who won. And these are the people. So if you hear your name, you win. The first one is now. This is their Instagram handles. Is that.

[Justin Andrews]

These are their Instagram handles.

[Sal DiStefano]

Can you read them off for me, Doug? Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

Elena Reese Arroyo. The next one is Jillian R. Fit. And the third one is Kevin underscore Bates 07. They've all been contacted already, but this is just.

[Sal DiStefano]

They won.

[Adam Schafer]

No.

[Sal DiStefano]

Yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

We have to give it publicly because I don't know about anybody else. I'm sure anyone who's people that are listening, by the way too. We didn't talk about this and I.

[Doug]

We're not related to any of them.

[Adam Schafer]

Why we're watching. Why we're in the giving mood.

[Sal DiStefano]

We're talking about giving at Sal to Stefano.

[Adam Schafer]

Don't you guys? I feel. Hey, those. The giveaway things like that. I'm always so skeptical. I feel like they got to be fake.

[Sal DiStefano]

No, these are real.

[Adam Schafer]

These are real people. You can look them up, ask them if they want find out. But yeah. Anyways. This puts me in a gratitude place. I don't know if you guys really wrapped your little brains around the Spotify rap that happened happen and how crazy that kind of is. I've been telling like my family and friends.

[Sal DiStefano]

Yeah. I have a big brain.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah. I don't think you guys. I don't think you guys understand. We did that rap right where at the end of the year, Spotify does all the top lists. Whatever. Like that. 40,000. Over 40,000 people. We were the number one thing in their ears for the entire year.

[Sal DiStefano]

Yeah.

[Doug]

Yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

That's crazy.

[Sal DiStefano]

That's awesome.

[Adam Schafer]

40,000 plus over 170,000 people had us as their top 10. My top 10 for my Spotify rap. Not even a single podcast was in that.

[Doug]

No, I know.

[Sal DiStefano]

It's music.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah, it's music. Because I listen to music mostly. And then I listen to a lot of podcasts I like and things like that.

[Doug]

Yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

So to think that for over and 40,000 people, you guys, that's more than the Warriors Arena. Okay. Of people.

[Doug]

No, it's insane.

[Adam Schafer]

Like didn't just listen to you.

[Sal DiStefano]

That's crazy.

[Adam Schafer]

They listen to you more than anything. Listen to and okay to add more craziness to this, this Spotify represents less than 25% of our audience.

[Sal DiStefano]

Yes.

[Adam Schafer]

We're much bigger on itunes and we also have the YouTube. So it doesn't include that.

[Doug]

That's right.

[Adam Schafer]

So just Spotify had 40,000 plus people that you were the number one thing they listen to for the entire year of us.

[Sal DiStefano]

Yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah. The entire. That's crazy.

[Sal DiStefano]

You know what's cool about that is.

[Adam Schafer]

Super grateful for when the drone war start.

[Sal DiStefano]

We could just tell these 40,000, let's get together.

[Doug]

That's what I'm saying ourselves.

[Adam Schafer]

So a big, a big. This is a big thank brochures. Thank you to all the people that have supported this business and supported us this entire time. It's very humbling to see that. And that's really, really cool. Makes us feel good. Sometimes it's hard to really fathom that because we sit in this little box and talk to into space. Yeah. And we don't actually see these people. But when you see numbers like that and then you understand what fills up a basketball or a football arena and think holy crap. And then it's think. When I see my own numbers of the things that I listen to and go I, I would consider myself a fan of many like podcasts that I like and, and think I'm. But they none of them even cracked my top 10 things that I listen to. And so to think that we did that for 170000 people and then did it, you know, the number one thing for 40,000 people, that's. That's pretty wild.

[Sal DiStefano]

We appreciate it.

[Doug]

Awesome.

[Justin Andrews]

And one more thing. You still have time to win a eight sleep for your bed. If you go to Instagram right now, this is Christmas Eve right now. You can request to win.

[Adam Schafer]

Oh yeah, sleep. Merry Christmas.

[Sal DiStefano]

There you go. The perfect gut friendly clean protein snack is here. These are grass fed meat sticks from Paleo Valley. They're delicious, they're not dry and they're good for you. Go check them out. Go to paleovalley.com mindpump on that link. You'll get a discount. All right, back to the show.

[Justin Andrews]

Our first caller is Jennifer from California.

[Sal DiStefano]

Hi, Jennifer.

[Adam Schafer]

How you doing, Jennifer?

[Caller 1]

Hey, how's it going guys?

[Adam Schafer]

Good.

[Doug]

We're doing good.

[Sal DiStefano]

How can we help you?

[Caller 1]

Yeah. So in Southern California and I'm sure all over the country, what happens with kids in sports is there's a lot of pressure for club sports. I have three kids myself and thankfully they love playing sports. And two, my two boys are both in club sports. The issue is around here the club coaches kind of punish kids when they do other sports. And when I say kids, I'm talking about elementary age and middle school. So I'm of the believer having a Training background. Kids need to be cycling through different sports and it's so important that they build other muscles, they build other skills. And I've told coaches before or in a polite way, explain to them how, you know, we really should be promoting seasonal change up into a certain age. And even in high school, you know, I'm like, what professional athlete only played one sport? Let's be real here, until you got to a certain age. I know it's a money maker, so I understand that these club coaches really do need to run a business. I respect that. Again, two of my kids are in club sports all year round, but I also change out their sports through season in different rec. Now, sometimes these kids are punished and they can't play a club game that weekend or they're benched if they miss a certain practice for another seasonal sport. So my question really is, who are some of the top researchers who I can point these parents and these coaches to look at the research on why it's beneficial for young children to get a variety of sports for their overall training and how that will make them a better athlete for their main sport as they get older.

[Adam Schafer]

Check out. We did a great interview with Chad Wesley Smith from Juggernaut Training. From Juggernaut Training, you'll love. In fact, the entire episode was training kids from like, you know, birth all the way through high school and professional. And what does that path look? And you're spot on, by the way.

[Sal DiStefano]

You're totally right.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah, that's what it's.

[Doug]

So glad you're advocating for your kids like that because, yeah, it is. It's a scarcity mindset from these coaches and, and they're just trying to, you know, make sure that they're the priority. But honestly, what you're doing is, is perfect, Jennifer.

[Sal DiStefano]

What the data shows clearly is up until they're much older. Let me give you a scenario. Yeah. Yeah. If you have two kids, one kid, let's say, is talented in soccer, and all they ever do is play soccer from five years old on. The other kid, also talented in soccer, but plays lots of different sports until they get up into college, the one that plays all the other different sports will actually do better at soccer. And that's what the data shows. It's very clear. Now, the reason for this is thethe neuroplasticity of the brain is so incredible at a young age that it'sthat it's better for them to develop general body awareness and kinesthetic skills early on than it is to focus on one specific set of skills, skills that doesn't happen until much later. So even if you want your kid to be excellent at one specific sport, they're going to be better at that sport. If they play a multitude of sports.

[Adam Schafer]

In those younger ages, the language analogy is really good. So like if you were just like learning a language, if you wanted your kid to be able to speak like five fluent languages, you having them do all those when they're younger is far better than them speaking English their entire life and then all of a sudden deciding you're going to do focus just on the one, you know what I'm saying? So, so same same concept, in fact.

[Doug]

In fact it's predictive variables. So here the thing is, like these kids that are specializing early will be good in terms of the sport itself and the skill of the sport itself, but they're not going to be able to predict unforeseen variables which these other kids will get exposed to. These variables have, you know, quite an advantage long term over these other specialized kids. So between that and then also again, pattern overuse and this tends to lead towards injury earlier in their career is definitely a lot shorter. Something you should look into in terms of if you want to geek out on the science of it all. If you've read Super Training by Mel Sif, you could get into all the Russian studies and everything else, like proving this, all of this, and you can kind of present that to your coach.

[Sal DiStefano]

Yeah, the challenge, Jennifer, is the anecdotes of like this, like the Williams sisters or Tiger woods and be like, oh my God, they played that sport since they were really young. They did very well in spite of the fact that they did that. Now, they worked very hard. They were obviously genetically gifted. But again, the data shows very clearly this isn't even a debate that a child will do better at a specific sport if up until they're right around college age, they do a multitude of different sports. So again, to use the language analogy, learning three languages at a young age means you speak all three fluently without an accent when you're older. And you'll actually have a better grasp and understanding of your native language because you have a better grasp of language in general. So that's what happens. So what you're saying is absolutely right. These club, you know, managers, they again, scarcity mindset. They're also probably not up on the data and they're just trying to get as many kids to play their sports possible, but they're going against what the data is showing. So it isn't just Anecdote like this is very clear. This is well known knowledge in the coaching world with anybody who's up to date with all those studies.

[Adam Schafer]

Jennifer it's episode 952. Episode 952 and he got we like he literally breaks it down to from this age to this age you should do up to four sports. From this age to this age you should do three sports but and not even. You don't even. And even in high school you should be doing at least two sports. So he breaks it all the way down. We talk about the science. Like that's a really good, really good episode.

[Caller 1]

I definitely I, I require my children because they're still young enough. I require them every season where or changing up a different sport and if I feel like they are stressed out from a club sport I sign them up for a rec sport of a totally different sport just to get them out in nature and having fun and meeting new people. So perfect. I'm going to check out all this and my second question. My oldest is 13 and in 8th grade and what's amazing is now he and his friends are super into lifting. They like to do. They like to hit their biceps because they want the girls. But what's amazing is they, they've come to me now and they want to come to the gym with me. So I have been listening to your advice. Obviously I have a background also and I tell them you know we're not going to overdo it. You don't want to be in the gym too often because they're all different multi faceted athletes. What would you guys recommend as the best program that I could possibly get them started on? I was think I didn't know about like symmetry or a mobility type thing. I do want to work on. I'm teaching them basics on how to do a deadlift. The like main important muscle groups that I feel like all teenage kids really need to learn that sets them up for success. So what program do you think is a good fit?

[Sal DiStefano]

Are they. Are they and they're currently playing and practicing sports as well, right?

[Caller 1]

Correct.

[Sal DiStefano]

Yeah. Maps 15 and we have a new program coming out that'll be even better that follows that same methodology. But it's like it's like two exercises a day.

[Adam Schafer]

What's good about Mass 15 is it's only two exercises and it's the core lifts like so you're like I think one of the best things you can do is what you're kind of doing already which is teaching them the fundamentals around A squat. If you can get your, if you can get your boys learning the deadlift and the squat, just practicing the form and the technique and get that down, that's going to be.

[Doug]

Yeah, we're going to give you our Maps 15 performance and it's, it's much more athletic minded, much more athletic minded, much more functional type of exercise and movements. But yeah, it, it, it's simple. It's like you only have like two to three exercises and that's really, you don't want to overwhelm them. And I think too, to, to have them sharpen the skill of, of the lifting portion of it. If you can get them to do that, they're already ahead of everybody else.

[Caller 1]

All right, awesome, guys. Thank you.

[Sal DiStefano]

You got it. Thanks for calling in.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah, keep up the great work, Jennifer.

[Caller 1]

Yeah, thanks.

[Sal DiStefano]

Yeah, great, great question. I'm so glad she's pushing out, you.

[Doug]

Know, pushing, this is my world right.

[Sal DiStefano]

Now against those coaches. And you know, the language analogy is so good, Adam, because it is true that you learn all these languages fluently if you do them early on with neuroplasticity. But what you also get later on and studies will show this children that learn multiple languages at an early age have a better grasp of communication of their native language later because you, because you have a greater overall understanding of communication, period. Because if you speak, you know, French and German and Chinese, you, they all communicate just a bit differently. There's some words you can't necessarily translate. And so when you have a grasp of language more fully, you can actually communicate better even in one language, which is the same with movement, it's the same with anything. So you really want to take advantage of that neuroplasticity with your child with exercise. And it's a complete myth that, oh, I want my kid to be good at football.

[Doug]

There's so much better long term. You want to really set them up.

[Justin Andrews]

Our next caller is Irina from Canada.

[Sal DiStefano]

Irena, how can we help you?

[Caller 1]

Hey guys, I'm such a huge fan. Thank you so much for choosing my question. So my question is, I'm wondering if you guys can speak to if or how weight training and muscle training principles can be applied to the face face. Within the aesthetics community, it's generally regarded as bs But I don't understand why the face is made up of muscles which sag in atrophy over time. Wouldn't it be beneficial to find specific ways to isolate and train them to build back lost volume? And why aren't there more studies on this and what do you guys know about building up cheeks, temples, eye sockets, and the connective tissues that keep skin attached to the bone?

[Sal DiStefano]

Great.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah. Great question. This is a great question.

[Sal DiStefano]

You can. You can definitely. Any muscle can be developed. You can build any muscle. Okay. The key is. Or the challenge is how do I add resistance to some muscles progressively? Yeah. I mean, the muscles you can mostly work on in the face are the ones that open and close the jaw. Now, the rest of the muscles that surround the head, you know, that raise the eyebrows and move the eyes and lift your ears, it'd be really tough to add resistance. I don't. I've never seen a machine or anything.

[Doug]

That wraps all day.

[Sal DiStefano]

Yeah. That's able to do that. That. I think practicing those movements might be a good idea. Now, the problem with your community is many of the treatments that go to making someone look younger do the opposite. Right. They look. They aim to atrophy the muscles of the face with, like, Botox, for example. Like. Let's give you some Botox and paralyze those muscles, which, you know, might take away wrinkles but also atrophies muscles. So I could see why they're against any kind of development. Now, as far as developing the jaw muscles, there is a product called jawsercise, which will add resistance. I mean, it will add resistance. And some people do say it helps develop the muscles of the jaw. Now, the key and the problem with working the muscles that open and close the jaw is you want to do it in a very balanced way, because if there's any imbalance, you can cause joint issues in the jaw, and that can cause a lot of problems like TMJ and stuff like that. But you definitely can't. You definitely can build up those muscles. And again, jaws or size is the only device I've seen that aims to do that. And it's like a. It's like a ball that you chew on on both sides.

[Adam Schafer]

I also think that the part of the reason why there's just not a lot of conversation around it is it's. There's. There's bigger rocks that are gonna, like, make. Like if you were doing jaws or size, but then not hitting protein intake and eating a poor diet and you had other things that, like, that'll make an impact on. On how lean or tone your face looks more than doing Jaws or size all day long. So I also think that where it falls in the category of the biggest things that will make the difference, like, aesthetically, it's not one of the biggest things, but I. If you, if you were checking all the other boxes, good diet training, do all that stuff. The jaws are size thing is, is only going to help. It's not going to be a bad thing so long as you do it balanced.

[Sal DiStefano]

Yeah. And unfortunately, you know, if you look at the world of commercial aesthetics, what we tend to value is youthful skin and I think you know a lot about, you know, how to make skin more healthy and youthful and also fat, fat in the face. So you tend to get punished not you know, from anybody other than maybe what the cosmetic world would say if you get too lean, especially as a woman. And developing muscles adds more of a chiseled look to the face which men like women tend to shy away from. Women tend to want a, a fuller, rounder face.

[Adam Schafer]

They inject in the face.

[Sal DiStefano]

Right. They tend to want a, a, a like, like it. Making their face look like it's a little fatter while the rest of them is really lean type of deal.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah.

[Sal DiStefano]

Yes. So it's, it's, it's a big counter. It's a big counter to, to your space, you know. But that being said, jaws are, that's the only. I can't think of any other exercise device for the face.

[Doug]

No, I mean, yeah, masseters like it. I, I looked back into this a long time ago when we were looking at old time lifts and, and techniques and how they used crazy stuff like biting down on these bits. But it's all connected to, to the full kinetic chain. So that's, that's definitely a part of it if you're deadlifting or you're lifting heavy weights, really like you know, gripping down with your jaw. But again you can overdo that too. So like you said TMJ and, and a lot of these things can happen if you do too much intensity. But yeah, really that's the only feasible product that I could think of.

[Sal DiStefano]

No, yeah, that's about it. We don't have a program for you.

[Doug]

Sorry, Face crunches.

[Sal DiStefano]

We don't have a face program.

[Caller 1]

Yeah, well there's tons of people too, like in the online communities and stuff that have, you know, created programs, developed programs where you're using your fingers as resistance and doing special movements and stuff like that. But then there's the aesthetics community that absolutely don't do that. That's actually going to do the opposite. There seems to be no consensus and yeah, that's exactly it. It's, you know, Botox is really just the skin and really it's that filler, it's that volume. It's that muscle. Why can't we treat the same way we treat the body is what I've been wondering.

[Sal DiStefano]

You're right. I mean, I agree with you. You know, again, the what's considered aesthetic for, for men and for women, for the face is very different for men. Chiseled, some edges developed. You know, jawline and muscle in the face is considered attractive for women. I just, I just said a bunch of stuff a lot of women cringed on over. You know, for women it's like paralyze the muscles of my face, add some fluid to make it look like it's a little fatter in the face, even though I'm walking around real lean. So yeah, it, you know, difficult.

[Adam Schafer]

I mean, I believe it's been a while since I looked at his website, but I believe the jaws are sized. Guy has before and after pictures of people's faces. So you could see some pictures of what some people that have done it religiously look like and I mean, it'd be a fun experiment too, too. But yeah, it seems to be counter to what the industry is doing. So it's just not.

[Sal DiStefano]

I mean, literally Botox literally is paralyzing them.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah, yeah. So they're either paralyzing or injecting fat into the face. So it's like the opposite of what the actual jaws are size would do.

[Sal DiStefano]

Yeah, but from a health perspective, you know, you could, if you do a lot of proper exercises of the face, I know you can solve a lot of issues for some people with neck pain, migraines, tmj, you know, but obviously must be done properly because it could also make those things worse.

[Caller 1]

What about connective tissue? Do you guys have an opinion on that? Because that's obviously present all over the body and that is really another thing that counters the forces of gravity as folks age and kind of keeping stuff.

[Sal DiStefano]

Lifted, you know, strength training in general. So this is good, good topic. So strength training sends a localized acute, acute muscle building, connective tissue building signal. But there is also a milder systemic signal that's sent and we see this in lots of studies where one arm will be incapacitated and then if you exercise the other arm, the incapacitated arm will actually lose less muscle because of this systemic muscle building effect. So what you see in the data, for example, in the skin is you see this pro collagen boosting, building, you know, protein synthesis signal that goes to the skin from strength training. In fact, strength training is the best form of exercise for the skin.

[Doug]

Otherwise you're looking at oxidative Stress.

[Sal DiStefano]

That's right.

[Doug]

Kinds of stuff that, you know, it impedes on the skin.

[Sal DiStefano]

Yeah. So if you look at, like, all forms of exercise done properly tend to improve the health of the skin. But strength training builds the skin. Other forms of exercises don't. So just general strength training will do that. And then in combination with a high protein diet, like if you're getting one gram of protein per pound of target body weight, you're getting all the amino acids that are necessary for the collagen, you know, development matrices, and all of the connective tissue. So those two things right there, just strength train, eat a high protein diet. And then of course, the stuff, you know, stay hydrated, make sure you get adequate fat, don't go too low on fat, that kind of stuff. But yeah, that'll, that'll do it for the whole body.

[Caller 1]

Perfect. Thank you. Take care.

[Sal DiStefano]

You got it.

[Adam Schafer]

You know, what's her, what was her profession? I didn't catch it.

[Sal DiStefano]

The esthetician.

[Adam Schafer]

Oh, it did say, I didn't see it.

[Sal DiStefano]

Yeah. Oh. Or at least I'm guessing she says within the aesthetics community.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah, I, I never saw her, what she did for a living. It didn't say that.

[Sal DiStefano]

Oh, yeah, that's like.

[Adam Schafer]

I know.

[Doug]

I would, like, assume that, I guess.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah, you guys were assuming it. I'm like, how did they do that? I'm like, I don't, I didn't hear.

[Sal DiStefano]

Oh, because I saw aesthetics in her question. I thought that she, she said esthetician. You know, it's, it's funny, dude, that space aims to atrophy the hell out of the muscles of your face.

[Adam Schafer]

Well, that's a good point to why they, why they don't talk about this. Because it's literally the opposite of what they're doing. Yeah, it's the opposite.

[Sal DiStefano]

By the way, have you ever seen, have you ever noticed. You guys have noticed this in extreme cases. You don't see this in normal people, but you'll see some bodybuilders who are super overdeveloped. They eat a lot of meat and they had. They're all a lot of gear. The muscles on their head.

[Doug]

They develop muscles like. Yeah, like on their head.

[Sal DiStefano]

Yeah. And then again, side note, with kids, the. The size of a child's jaw, the spacing, the development of their teeth is directly connected because it's all malleable when they're young. It's connected to how much hard things they chew as a kid.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah.

[Sal DiStefano]

So I give your kids, like, meat to chew on, and they're less likely.

[Doug]

To work through it.

[Sal DiStefano]

They won't need to get their wisdom teeth removed or they won't need to get, you know, braces and stuff like that.

[Doug]

Well, yeah, you're right. I mean, the goal is to paralyze these muscles so they don't get the wrinkles and everything else. They don't want them to contract tracked. So it's like. Yeah, it's totally.

[Sal DiStefano]

They want a no muscle fat face is what they would be looking for.

[Justin Andrews]

Our next caller is Brian from California.

[Sal DiStefano]

What's up, Brian?

[Doug]

What's happening, Brian?

[Caller 2]

How's it going, guys? Thanks for having me.

[Sal DiStefano]

You got it, man. How can we help you?

[Caller 2]

I'll just, I'll ask the, the question just so I don't throw any curveballs. I'll just read it off. So I've been a listener to the show for a few years and because of you guys have transformed my physique. I feel great.

[Sal DiStefano]

Great.

[Caller 2]

I have a much better understanding of metabolism, how the human body works. So I can't thank you enough. I eat completely whole real foods diet prioritize between 210 to 250 grams of protein a day. I switch my rep ranges every three weeks from mid to high and low reps and it all feels great. I've seen steady improvement and all that, so no complaints there. But I've listened to a few books recently and one of them was the sports gene. And I've learned a lot of cool things. But there was like a couple things that kind of threw me for a loop that I was wondering if you guys could clarify.

[Sal DiStefano]

Sure.

[Caller 2]

So one of them was the book said that there's somewhat of a maximum to the amount of muscle the human body can hold naturally. They said it's about a five to one muscle to bone density ratio. And once you've maxed out, all the extra protein you're consuming to build muscle will just convert to fat storage. I think it's called like gluconeogenesis. Although I don't think I'm maxed out by any means. The concern was that eventually what I'm doing would just stop working. Like if I did kind of reach that maximum, I'd just start building fat. Even though I'm eating a clean diet, like high in protein. Is that a thing? I mean, it's hard to wrap my head around that eating like good foods would still make you fat.

[Sal DiStefano]

Yeah, it's such an over ridiculous simplification. So, okay, there's a, there's a maximum that the human body can, can, you know, hold in terms of muscle, I mean, that's true. There's gonna be a difference from.

[Adam Schafer]

Don't we have that calc online? Don't we have that calculator online?

[Sal DiStefano]

We do, yeah.

[Caller 2]

I remember you guys. Yeah, you guys had that calculator too, by the way.

[Sal DiStefano]

That's based off of some of the most muscular people we've known in history built muscle naturally. So there's a. There's a wide genetic variance and all that. So, you know, etc. Etc. But no. Okay, here's the deal. Extra protein doesn't get converted to fat unless it's extra calories. Your body gains body fat from eating more calories than you burn. That's all. That's it. Bottom line.

[Adam Schafer]

Yup.

[Sal DiStefano]

So if your body's burning 3,000 calories a day and you're eating 4,000 calories a day, you're gonna gain body fat. If you're eating 3,000 calories a day and you're burning 3,000 calories a day, even if you've maxed out your muscle and all that stuff, it doesn't matter. So it really comes from an extra calorie. Now, that being said, if we're gonna go into the weeds a little bit, it seems that it's more difficult to gain body fat from protein than it is from carbohydrates and from fat. But at the end. At the end of the day. And that probably again has to do with. With. Well, it definitely has to do with that protein probably burns more calories to utilize than carbohydrates and fats do.

[Adam Schafer]

I'm also trying to think of an example of a friend of ours that we have that you would say you think has reached their. Their muscle potential naturally and is not. Like, who.

[Doug]

That's hard to think.

[Adam Schafer]

Who do we. Who do we know that's trained so consistently naturally for so long and is built probably at the tip of their. At the, at the. Their peak, it takes a long time to reach naturally. Are we talking naturally? Because if you're enhanced and that you.

[Doug]

Guys, that gives you a whole nother ceiling.

[Adam Schafer]

Go through the ceiling.

[Sal DiStefano]

And you can also change that. What that limit looks like. Right. Even if you go off because of the muscle memory. But yeah, it's an oversimplification. I think. It's an interesting book. I'm familiar. There's some cool stuff in there. But if you eat more protein than is necessary, but your calories are below what you're burning, you get lean, leaner. So it doesn't have. It's not the extra protein, it's the extra calories that get converted to body fat. And now again, that's an oversimplification because the calories you burn can change quite a bit depending on your metabolism, activity, et cetera.

[Caller 2]

Yeah, that was, that was gonna be kind of a follow up question. Cause I figured that's where you guys would go with it. But have you also read the obesity code or good calorie is bad calories.

[Sal DiStefano]

I'm familiar, but I have not read them.

[Caller 2]

So. So the whole concept there is that it's more of the, the, the type of food that you're eating that creates an insulin spike and that the calories aren't as much of what matter because like if you over consume on the calories, your body will just like burn it off as like body heat. But then that was also kind of confusing because I know like Adam as a, you know, competitor and stuff, he's talked about manipulating calories for different body compositions.

[Sal DiStefano]

Yeah, right.

[Caller 2]

But then it's like, then I don't know what to believe. Is it just like, okay, avoid hyper processed carbs and then you'll never have fat. Or if you do eat healthy but you're way over consuming on calories, can you still.

[Adam Schafer]

Oh yeah.

[Sal DiStefano]

It's all important. All of it is important. But at the end of the day, bottom line. Okay, bottom line. And again, this can change quite a bit depending on your metabolism and your sleep and your activity and lots of factors. You know, just to be clear, mammalian metabolism is one of the most complicated things we've ever identified in the universe. Okay? So that being said, if you take in more calories than you burn, you'll gain weight. If you take in less calories than you burn, you'll lose weight or lose tissue. Your body has to get the energy from somewhere. That's just the law of physics. We've never observed that law of physics to be any different. That's why it's a law. Now, hormones play a role in your metabolism. Metabolism, they play a role in what kind of tissue you may burn or what kind of tissue you may gain. So eating more calories than you burn, but let's say your testosterone levels are low and cortisol is high, you're probably more likely to gain body fat than muscle and vice versa. But yeah, a lot of these books aim, they tend to oversimplify or they try to paint a picture that counters, you know, what may be common knowledge is a way to sell their book. Whatever. But there's truth in all of them. I don't wanna say that it's truth in truth in a lot of them. But don't go. Don't get too caught in the weeds because what's happening is you're gonna get confused. What do I do? Like whole natural foods. Strength training.

[Doug]

Signal it with strength training.

[Sal DiStefano]

Yeah, you're good.

[Doug]

That's a huge factor.

[Adam Schafer]

And one of the huge pluses, and you probably know this from your own experience of eating a whole food diet is the beauty of that is it's. Even though it's possible to over consume and put body fat on because you're just eating too many calories. Calories, it's much more difficult. Right. It's easier to land where your body needs when you're. When you're eating these whole natural foods. It's kind of interesting.

[Sal DiStefano]

Satiety signals work.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah, your satiety signals work. You're full, you're good. And you know, when you're really hungry, you eat a little bit more because your body probably needed it. And then when you start adding in processed foods, that's where this stuff gets really difficult. Which is all why. Why we've, since day one, I've always spoke out on the kind of the Iifym community and just. Oh, as long as it fits your macros, like. Yeah, okay. That's right. If it fits your macros, you can stay lean and do processed food. Problem is that makes it very difficult for the average person.

[Sal DiStefano]

Like.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah. So you're on the right track.

[Caller 2]

Well, then it's easier to. Because it's easier to like way over consume.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah.

[Caller 2]

Calories and under consume nutrients.

[Adam Schafer]

That's right. Those types of foods. That's right.

[Sal DiStefano]

Especially the calories part. They're designed to make you overeat. That's it. And they're really good at it.

[Adam Schafer]

It.

[Sal DiStefano]

Yeah.

[Caller 2]

Okay, cool. Well, hey, thank you guys again. Like I said, all this stuff I've, I've learned from you guys and it's made a huge difference in my life. So I spread the word about mind pump all the time. Appreciate you guys.

[Sal DiStefano]

You got it, man. Thank you.

[Doug]

Right on th.

[Sal DiStefano]

This is this. There's two reasons, two reasons why people are so confused. One is the, the hype diet. Sales baloney. Then there's the science side that takes stuff that's really not important for the average person.

[Doug]

Mechanisms that are not even.

[Sal DiStefano]

That just confuses the hell out of people. And then it starts this crazy debate, calories don't matter. And then this sounds like, well, your insulin doesn't matter. I know they both matter, but you've just confused everybody.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah.

[Sal DiStefano]

And now people are doing the wrong stuff. It's actually pie. Totally.

[Justin Andrews]

Our next caller is Colin from Kansas.

[Sal DiStefano]

What's up Colin?

[Doug]

What's happening?

[Sal DiStefano]

How can we help you?

[Caller 3]

Hey guys, how's it going?

[Adam Schafer]

Good.

[Caller 3]

Yeah, thank you for the opportunity to be on today. This is, this is awesome. I really appreciate the chance here. I sent in a question around programming and nutrition for the end of the year here and I'll read it off for you guys. I've been running power lift and eating here through the winter with a Focus on testing 1 rep maxis here at the end of the year. Following this program, I have two things I'd like to accomplish. One of them is to run symmetry as a deload correctional program on the backside of the lifting I've been doing. And I'd also like to go into the new year and run a light cut on the backside of this bulk that I've kind of been working through. My question is whether or not it's worth trying to do both at the same time. Obviously there my fear would be not benefiting from symmetry because I'm not giving myself enough calories for the adaptation. And so I'd love your guys opinion on whether or not I should do something like maintain and extend that bulk through something like symmetry or if, if perhaps you think they'd be okay to run together.

[Adam Schafer]

Good question.

[Sal DiStefano]

No, I think you could do a cut. I wouldn't make it too aggressive.

[Adam Schafer]

That's exactly right. If you just try and hang around like a maintenance to a little bit of a deficit, you'll have enough of a time that you're in somewhat of a surplus that you'll still get by.

[Sal DiStefano]

The way what you're looking for. Based off what you said. Right. When you follow symmetry, it's not to hit PRs, but rather to use it in a correctional capacity. Right. To balance you out laterally so that you can go back to powerlifting and hit new PRs. So thosea lot of that is central nervous system adaptation. Now I'm not gonna say that's not affected by calories, but it's not like building muscle. So you can definitely strengthen and change central nervous system adaptations. How your muscles fire together and still be in a cut. You can learn new skills and be in a cut is what I'm trying to say. So it's totally fine.

[Adam Schafer]

I still agree though that I would do a, a slight cut though.

[Sal DiStefano]

Yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

I wouldn't be.

[Sal DiStefano]

No, too aggressive and then, yeah, There's.

[Adam Schafer]

A part in my series where I talk about this in the YouTube series that I just did where it's just where I was explaining that in. In a 30 day, when you zoom out, you have times where, like how. How do we sometimes build muscle and lose body fat? Well, it's not. You're doing it at the exact same time is that there's periods of time in that week where my body's tipping over into anabolic because it's got a little bit high on calories. And other times where it's really low, then it's catab bullock. And as long as you're hovering around maintenance to a slight deficit, you're going to have periods of time like that. So that would probably be, I think, the best strategy where you would just kind of slowly lean out while you do it.

[Caller 3]

Okay, Yeah, I think that was my biggest question until you kind of touched on it there, which was, you know, I've heard you guys talk a lot about how for the adaptation that you're seeking, it's so important to hit your protein, your calories. And that nuance, I think, is maybe where I was unclear of whether or not not this adaptation process needs all the same stuff when it's not necessarily muscle, but like you said, it's kind of systemic for like the joints and the shoulders and things.

[Sal DiStefano]

That's right.

[Adam Schafer]

Yep. Good question. Okay.

[Caller 3]

And then I guess real quick out of that, I would want to know what you guys would do if you were, you know, training me quick maintenance to light cuff or something like asymmetry. Jumping into anabolic after. Does it make more sense then to probably go back into a slight surplus is like being the next window. Or would you. You jump into an even deeper cut with a different style of a program before another bulk?

[Adam Schafer]

What.

[Sal DiStefano]

What would. If your goal is to. To hit PRs, I would go back into a bulk.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah, it really depends on that. Like how you. After we get through symmetry in the slight deficit. If you, if you were my client, it would really be about, oh, how do you feel? Are you as lean as you wanted to be? Did you want to get a little bit leaner? If we wanted to get a little bit leaner, we just roll into the next program doing kind of the same thing where we have this slight, you know, and you'll just keep leaning in, out. If you're like, oh, yeah, I'm punting. I care. Let's go get those PRs. I want, I want to, I want to see. Then I'm going to Throw the calories up. So it really depends on how you feel after you go through symmetry and if you're happy with your leanness, if you now are wanting to get back to getting after the PRs, like. Yeah, then we're going to kick calories back up because that's obviously going to serve you to hitting, hitting the numbers.

[Caller 3]

Okay. Yeah, I think that sounds good.

[Sal DiStefano]

You got it.

[Adam Schafer]

I'll run it.

[Sal DiStefano]

Thanks, man.

[Caller 3]

Okay. Thank you, guys. You rock. Thanks for this opportunity.

[Sal DiStefano]

You got it, brother.

[Adam Schafer]

Thank you.

[Sal DiStefano]

Yeah, a lot of correctional, I mean, okay, yes, correctional exercise will build muscle as well, but a lot of it is really just how muscles fire and stabilize, how you're able to control them.

[Doug]

Building good recruitment patterns.

[Sal DiStefano]

And that's just skill. It's just literally teaching your body a new skill. And that's it's less important to be in a bulk to do that than it would be to add actual contractile tissue, to add actual, actual muscle mass. So correctional exercise can definitely be done very effectively through a mild cut. And definitely.

[Adam Schafer]

And you said it well too. It's not that being in a surplus wouldn't be a benefit. It would obviously be beneficial and because you could technically be have some sort of imbalance muscular right. Muscle wise, but it's. You can do it still in a deficit because of what we're talking about. So.

[Sal DiStefano]

Totally. Look, if you like the show, come find us on Instagram. Justin is at mindpumpjust. Dustin. I'm Mind Pump distefano, Adam's mindpump.

[Justin Andrews]

Thank you for listening to Mind Pump. If your goal is to build and shape your body dramatically, improve your health and energy and maximize your overall performance, check out our discounted RGB super [e-mail] the RGB Super Bundle includes maps, Anabolic Maps, Performance and Maps, aesthetic. Nine months of phased expert exercise programming designed by Sal, Adam and Justin to systematically transform the way your body looks, feels and performs. With detailed workout blueprints and over 200 videos. The RGB Super Bundle is like having Sal, Adam and Justin as your own personal trainers, but at a fraction of the price. The RGB Super Bundle has a full 30 day money back guarantee and you can get it now. Plus other valuable free [e-mail] if you enjoy this show, please share the love by leaving us a five star rating and review on itunes and by introducing Mind Pump to your friends and family. We thank you for your support and until next time, this is Mind Pump. Marketing is hard, but I'll tell you a little secret. It doesn't have to be. Let me point something out. You're listening to a podcast right now and it's great. You love the host. You seek it out and download it. You listen to it while driving, working out, cooking, even going to the bathroom. Podcasts are a pretty close companion. And this is a podcast ad. Did I get your attention? You can reach great listeners like yourself with podcast advertising from Libsyn Ads. Choose from hundreds of top podcasts offering host endorsements, or run a pre produced ad like this one across thousands of shows. To reach your target audience in their favorite podcasts with Libsy Synads, go to libsynads. Com. That's L, I B S Y N Ads. Com.

[Sal DiStefano]

Today.