2501: 3 Big Dietary Lies the Government Has Told You (Listener Live Coaching)

Summary

Mind Pump: Raw Fitness Truth – Episode 2501 Summary

Episode Title: 3 Big Dietary Lies the Government Has Told You (Listener Live Coaching)
Hosts: Sal Di Stefano, Adam Schafer, Justin Andrews
Producer: Doug Egge
Release Date: January 1, 2025

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Introduction

In episode 2501 of Mind Pump: Raw Fitness Truth, hosts Sal Di Stefano, Adam Schafer, and Justin Andrews delve deep into the misinformation perpetuated by government guidelines concerning diet and nutrition. The episode not only debunks three major dietary myths but also engages with live listeners, providing personalized coaching to help overcome fitness and health hurdles.

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Section 1: Debunking the Three Big Dietary Lies

Timestamp [03:03] – Introduction to Dietary Misinformation

Justin Andrews opens the discussion by highlighting how government agencies have historically disseminated flawed nutritional advice, adversely affecting public health. He emphasizes that many of these myths are so ingrained that they've led to widespread dietary misconceptions and unhealthy eating habits.

1. Dietary Cholesterol is Bad

Timestamp [04:32] – The Myth Unveiled

• Explanation: The government once advised that high dietary cholesterol intake is detrimental to heart health, leading to widespread avoidance of cholesterol-rich foods like eggs and shellfish.
• Truth Revealed: Recent studies have reversed this stance, showing that dietary cholesterol does not significantly impact blood cholesterol levels. Instead, these foods are nutrient-dense and beneficial for hormonal functions and overall health.
• Notable Quote:
  Justin Andrews [04:59]: "Dietary cholesterol is no longer a nutrient of concern, but what they need to do is come out and say something even better, which is, hey, all those foods we said were bad."

2. Dietary Fat is Harmful

Timestamp [08:07] – The Fat Fallacy

• Explanation: For decades, low-fat diets were promoted, leading to increased consumption of processed foods high in sugars and vegetable oils.
• Truth Revealed: Dietary fats are essential for bodily functions, including hormone production and nutrient absorption. Over-restriction can lead to deficiencies and health issues like "rabbit starvation," where excessive consumption of lean proteins without adequate fats results in malnutrition.
• Notable Quote:
  Justin Andrews [09:38]: "Fat is essential. It's an essential nutrient. If you don't eat enough fat, you'll die even if your calories are high."

3. Sodium (Salt) Should Be Limited

Timestamp [12:02] – The Sodium Conundrum

• Explanation: Reduced sodium intake has been linked to lower blood pressure and decreased risk of heart disease. However, this often coincides with a reduction in the consumption of whole foods and an increase in processed, high-sodium alternatives.
• Truth Revealed: Sodium is vital for various bodily functions, including nerve transmission and muscle function. Restricting sodium can impair athletic performance and overall health, especially for active individuals.
• Notable Quote:
  Justin Andrews [14:41]: "If you try to keep a low sodium diet and you work out, you're killing yourself. Absolutely destroying yourself."

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Section 2: Market Shifts and the Rise of Element

Timestamp [18:05] – Electrolytes and Market Adaptation

• Discussion: The flawed sodium guidelines led to the rise of heavily processed foods with high sugar and salt content. In response, companies like Element emerged, providing electrolyte-rich products without the excessive sugars and artificial additives.
• Impact: Element's approach to electrolytes, emphasizing adequate sodium for performance without the “snake oil” marketing of traditional sports drinks like Gatorade, reshaped the market. Their success prompted other brands to adopt similar, more health-conscious formulations.
• Notable Quote:
  Justin Andrews [20:09]: "Exercise is pro health, pro growth. If you do it right, it's anabolic in the sense that it’s causing the proliferation of these tissues or growth of tissues that are beneficial because exercise is a stress."

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Section 3: Listener Live Coaching

The latter part of the episode focuses on live coaching segments where listeners call in with specific fitness and health challenges. The hosts provide tailored advice, demonstrating their extensive expertise.

Caller 1: Sal Di Stefano’s Training Plateau

Timestamp [61:31] – Overcoming Strength and Injury Setbacks

• Issue: Sal, a consistent lifter, experiences a plateau in his strength, particularly in squats and deadlifts, complicated by lower back and knee injuries.
• Advice:
  • Overtraining Check: Assess for signs of overtraining, such as stagnation or regression in strength.
  • Caloric Intake: Ensure a sufficient caloric surplus to support muscle growth and recovery.
  • Focus on Specific Muscles: Address mechanical issues with targeted exercises and mobility work, particularly for the pelvic floor and hip flexors.
  • Notable Quote:
    Justin Andrews [66:14]: "Calorie is the other one. A lot of times when I see young women... How often do you go into bulk versus a cut?"

Caller 2: Amelia from Colorado’s Sleep and Hormonal Issues

Timestamp [74:00] – Navigating Hormonal Balance and Training

• Issue: Amelia, a 21-year-old dancer and weightlifter, suffers from sleep disturbances, hypothyroidism, adrenal fatigue, and irregular periods despite a disciplined training and diet regimen.
• Advice:
  • Hormonal Assessment: Explore potential early perimenopause or hormonal imbalances affecting sleep and recovery.
  • Caloric and Protein Intake: Increase caloric and protein intake to support muscle maintenance and overall health, especially given her high activity levels.
  • Training Modulation: Reduce workout volume during high-stress periods like intense dance seasons and incorporate more recovery-focused programs like Maps 15.
  • Supplementation: Incorporate essential amino acids (EAAs) and Omega-3s to support muscle growth and recovery.
  • Notable Quote:
    Elaine [89:27]: "If you do that consistently, never missed for three weeks in a row, you'd see a significant change in the strength."

Caller 3: Chuck’s Challenges with Dance and Strength Training

Timestamp [84:18] – Balancing Dance and Strength without Overtraining

• Issue: Chuck, a 41-year-old dancer experiencing declines in strength and muscle growth despite consistent training and dietary efforts.
• Advice:
  • Reduce Training Volume: Incorporate lower-volume programs like Maps 15 and Maps 15 Performance to prevent overtraining.
  • Maintain or Increase Caloric Intake: Ensure sufficient calories to support both dance and strength training demands.
  • Focus on Glute Connection: Emphasize glute activation exercises to achieve targeted muscle growth without overloading the system.
  • Notable Quote:
    Elaine [84:35]: "You're burning up all your material. You're burning it up. The more you do, the more stuff you keep piling on... So the only way the ass comes is by scaling back some of the volume."

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Section 4: Insights & Conclusions

Throughout the episode, the hosts reinforce the importance of questioning established nutritional myths and advocate for evidence-based approaches to diet and fitness. They emphasize the significance of individualized training and nutrition plans, especially when dealing with injuries or hormonal imbalances. The live coaching segments highlight the necessity of balancing training volume, ensuring adequate nutrition, and addressing underlying health issues to achieve long-term fitness goals.

Key Takeaways:

• Question Nutritional Guidelines: Many government dietary recommendations are based on outdated or flawed science.
• Essential Nutrients: Dietary cholesterol, fats, and sodium play critical roles in maintaining overall health and optimal performance.
• Market Adaptation: Health-conscious products like Element are reshaping the supplement and sports drink industries by addressing previous misconceptions.
• Personalized Coaching: Tailored advice is crucial for overcoming individual fitness plateaus and health challenges.
• Holistic Approach: Combining proper training, adequate nutrition, and addressing medical concerns leads to sustainable health and fitness progress.

Notable Quotes:

• Justin Andrews [04:59]: "Dietary cholesterol is no longer a nutrient of concern, but what they need to do is come out and say something even better, which is, hey, all those foods we said were bad."
• Elaine [09:55]: "If you don't eat enough fat, you'll die even if your calories are high."
• Justin Andrews [14:41]: "If you try to keep a low sodium diet and you work out, you're killing yourself. Absolutely destroying yourself."

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Conclusion

Episode 2501 of Mind Pump: Raw Fitness Truth serves as a critical examination of longstanding dietary misconceptions while providing actionable advice through live coaching sessions. The hosts empower listeners to adopt a more informed and personalized approach to health and fitness, advocating for scientific evidence over popular myths.

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Connect with Mind Pump:

• Instagram: @mindpumpmedia, @mindpumpsal, @mindpumpadam, @mindpumpjustin, @mindpumpdoug
• Website: mindpumppodcast.com
• Training Protocols: mapsfitnessproducts.com

Transcript

[Sal DiStefano]

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[Justin Andrews]

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Find the most exciting gift for every [e-mail] gifts.

[Doug]

That's livenation.com gifts marketing is hard, but I'll tell you a little secret. It doesn't have to be. Let me point something out. You're listening to a podcast right now and it's great. You love the host. You seek it out and download it. You listen to it while driving, working out, cooking, even going to the bathroom. Podcasts are a pretty close companion. And this is a podcast ad. Did I get your attention? You can reach great listeners like yourself with podcast advertising from Libsyn Ads. Choose from hundreds of top podcasts offering host endorsements or run a pre produced ad like this one across thousands of shows. To reach your target audience in their favorite podcasts with Libsyn Ads, go to libsyn ads.com that's L I B S Y N ads.com today.

[Justin Andrews]

If you want to pump your body and expand your.

[Doug]

Mind, there's only one place to go. Mind Pump Mind Pump with your hosts Sal Destefano, Adam Schaefer and Justin Andrews.

[Justin Andrews]

You just found the most downloaded fitness, health and entertainment podcast. This is Mind Pump. Today's episode we had live callers call in. We got to help them out on air. But that was after our intro. Today's intro is 58 minutes long. Now in the intro we talk about fitness and studies and science and current events. It's a good time. Then we got to answering the questions. By the way, if you want to call in and have us coach you on air, email [e-mail] now this episode is brought to you by some sponsors. The first one is Element. Element is electrolyte powder you add to your water. No artificial sweeteners, no sugar with the right amount of sodium to fuel you through your workouts. And if you go through our link drinklement.com mindpump you'll get a free sample pack with any drink mix purchase. This episode is also brought to you by Organifi. Today we talked about their Gold Juice. Drink it before you go to bed for relaxation and anti inflammatory effects and get a discount. Go to organifi.com mindpump use the code mindpump get 20% off. Also, these are the final hours for the December special. Maps aesthetic and map symmetry. 50% off. Take advantage now before the sale ends, go to mapsfitnessproducts.com and then use the code 1250 for the discount. All right, here comes the show.

[Elaine]

T shirt time.

[Doug]

And it's T shirt time.

[Elaine]

Ah, shit, Doug. You know it's my favorite time of the week.

[Doug]

Two winners this week, One for Apple Podcast, one for Facebook. The Apple podcast winner is Nate Big. And for Facebook Pinch. Liz. Both of you are winners to the name I just read to itunesindpumpmedia.com, include your shirt size and your shipping address, and we'll get that shirt right out to you.

[Justin Andrews]

When it comes to health, nutrition in particular, the government lies to you. Here are the three biggest lies the government told us that probably made people sick, fat and unhealthy. By the way, they lie about a lot more.

[Elaine]

I was gonna say, where do we begin? You wanna tie in like aliens and some other stuff at the same time?

[Justin Andrews]

No, no, no.

[Elaine]

Could have been better right there.

[Justin Andrews]

Well, I picked the one now are pretty well established. They were total lies.

[Elaine]

Do you think we're entering a time in. In our lives real soon here where we like authority, the. What we read on in the news, what we, what we see on television, what we hear from the government, we're just not going to believe, probably. Like, I, I feel like we're like we're already there. I mean, I feel. Do you guys, you personally feel this shift? Like, I, I've just. And this is like in the last, literally just the last year, because I've already made enough mistakes where somebody sends me something and I send it to friends and we're like, oh, my God. And I get all. And then it's like, that's not true. It's AI. Or it was like, yeah. Or I'm getting troll. Right. So I now have shifted when someone sends something to me. Yeah, right. That's not real.

[Justin Andrews]

That's your default.

[Elaine]

Yeah, exactly. My default is now it's not real. Which is kind of a scary thing. That's like the story the boy that cried Wolf, right?

[Justin Andrews]

It is. And when it comes to diet in particular, our, you know, agencies that are supposed to make us healthy or promote healthy practices, this is well established now. We're strongly infiltrated or influenced by special interest food.

[Chuck]

That's it.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah. And so. And a lot of this information that we adopted was based off of shoddy science at best. The first one, that. That is clearly in Fact, they've reversed what they said on this. And we all grew up with this following message, which was that you needed to watch your dietary cholesterol intake. Dietary cholesterol was bad. If food was high in cholesterol, you need to avoid it. Eat. Eat egg whites.

[Chuck]

Eat heart disease and heart attacks.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah, don't eat whole eggs because, oh, my God, the yolk is so high in concentrated cholesterol. And a lot of people moved away from cholesterol rich foods, which are very healthy. Whole eggs being one of them, shellfish being another one, and many others. And what ended up happening, which is always what happens when we tell people to avoid one thing and we create food fear around that thing, they end up supplementing it or replacing it, I should say, with something that actually is bad for us. And so what happened was people moved away from dietary cholesterol and they increased their intake of heavily processed foods, which caused a lot of vegetable oils. But dietary cholesterol, we've done this with.

[Elaine]

Salt, we've done this with fat, we've done this with milk. We've done this with, like, what else have we done this with?

[Justin Andrews]

I mean, those are the big ones. Those are the big ones right now.

[Elaine]

Do you think we've now reached a point where the general population doesn't believe all that and that. Do most people understand that if it was. If it's got one ingredient, it's whole food, that there is no such thing as bad for you?

[Justin Andrews]

I think that. I think the tide is starting to turn. I think people are starting to listen to people that understand health, you know, better. I think that the. When the government comes out with something, dietarily speaking, the people that respond to it by saying, oh, yeah, I believe that are older generations who kind of grew up, you know, believing everything in that sense. But people, I would say our generation and younger were going, I don't know if I believe that. Like, again, dietary cholesterol research, going back to this first one, dietary cholesterol, they've had to reverse everything they said. By the way, for people who don't remember this or you weren't alive during this time where you were too young, they hammered this.

[Elaine]

Hammered.

[Justin Andrews]

They absolutely hammered this. Your doctors told you food manufacturers made sure to put no cholesterol on packages of food. Like candy. You could buy Candy in the 90s. I remember this distinctly. It was like Red Vines and gummy. You know something? I remember it would say, a low cholesterol food.

[Elaine]

There's nobody listening right now. There's nobody listening right now, that didn't or shouldn't be aware of that because it was not that. It was during this, when we started this podcast, when the American Heart association station recanted what they said.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah, the FDA said, hey, dietary cholesterol.

[Elaine]

It hasn't even been that long prior to that. So as long as you're not 10 years old, you're younger, you're you, you probably should know this.

[Justin Andrews]

Now, here's what makes it so damaging, is that dietary cholesterol has more evidence that it's probably good for you.

[Elaine]

Right.

[Justin Andrews]

Then it's bad for you. In fact, there's no evidence that dietary cholesterol is bad for you. But eating it or foods that are higher in cholesterol, natural foods are probably better for things like strength, brain function, nervous system function, and overall health. So again, not only was it wrong, it was the opposite of what is correct. And yeah, they did had to recant it. They said dietary cholesterol is no longer a nutrient of concern, but what they need to do is come out and say something even better, which is, hey, all those foods we said were bad.

[Chuck]

It's one of the building blocks for testosterone, like a molecule that cholesterol is a steroid molecule.

[Justin Andrews]

It's a building block of all your hormones. Absolutely. And our bodies synthesize. Here's why. Dietary cholesterol doesn't affect your total cholesterol in any meaningful way. Your body makes more or less cholesterol based off of what you eat. So you eat a lot of cholesterol. Your body makes less. You eat no cholesterol. Your body makes more. Because cholesterol is so important for humans to have our bodies synthesize it. By the way, the early studies on cholesterol that said cholesterol was bad, dietary cholesterol is bad. Were based off of rabbits, vegan rabbits who don't. Vegan who don't make their own cholesterol. So if they eat more cholesterol, they would get crazy cholesterol levels. Wow.

[Chuck]

Does anybody know how you can cherry pick crazy? Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

The next one is, and you said this, Adam, was that dietary fat was bad for you. Avoid it. Yeah, avoid everything. Has to be low fat. We in the 90s, margarine, man, oh boy. 80s and 90s was like this anti fat campaign. And what you saw was people moving away from traditional foods which were tended to be higher in fat like dairy, eggs, meats, people moving away from fatty fish and moved more towards, again, processed, heavily processed foods or foods that were higher in things like sugar. Because remember, if you're a food manufacturer, if you make processed foods, there's three things. There's three main ingredients. There's much more than this, but there's three main ingredients that make something palatable. Salt, fat and sugar. So now you've got this huge message that's like, fat's bad for you. So food manufacturers like, well, double down.

[Elaine]

On the salt and sugar.

[Justin Andrews]

Add especially sugar. Add way more sugar because we got to make this palatable. Those people won't, won't buy it. Fat is essential. It's an essential nutrient. If you don't eat enough fat, you'll die even if your calories are high. Well, you can actually starve in a high calorie diet if you don't have enough fat.

[Elaine]

Yeah. The show that we've talked about before alone is a great example of that, right. There's been, there's been examples in the season where, because like in the, in the movie alone or the show alone, anyone who sees it's like they, they drop 10 guests out in the middle of the wilderness and it's like, figure it out, right? How to survive. And the, the guy or the girl that always wins the show is the one that gets the big game kill that kills the animal. But there's been examples of, with somebody who's got a big game, but it's been like a really lean meat or.

[Justin Andrews]

They'Re just a bunch of rabbits.

[Elaine]

Rabbits like crazy. And they end up having to leave the, leave the island or wherever they're at because that still is not. And the, and the biggest reward is getting something fatty. If you get, if you get an animal that's got high in fat or the fat from a big animal, you're.

[Chuck]

It'S like game on Inuits and they collect all that whale fat and they're. It's so valuable up there because it is, it's, it's a vital nutrient.

[Elaine]

Well, don't we see this in nature too Is like the first thing that like an infect kill, an animal kills goes to the organs and all the really fatty, all the fatty and nutrients.

[Justin Andrews]

Because protein and fats are essential. You can go without carbohydrates for the rest of your life and, and not die. That doesn't mean it's ideal. It's just you don't need them, but you need fat. Without fat, your body can't operate. It will literally see even if you eat a high calorie diet. They used to call that rabbit starvation.

[Chuck]

You know, there's a term for that. Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

Hunters who could only catch super lean game would starve. Even though they would eat, they could eat as many rabbits they wanted. They would, they would starve.

[Elaine]

Do you guys think that. Okay, so we've talked about this openly on the show that you know, every client that we ever trained, especially female clients that we had under consume protein. Do you think a lot of our experience of seeing that within our clientele is directly connected to also the fat message? Because a lot of healthy fats has come, is, is paired together with. And so maybe like if we were trainers like in the 60s and 70s before that message was as popular that maybe we would have seen a higher. I wonder if there's any, any research on women in the 60s and 70s and their fat, fat content compared to in the 80s or 90s and 2000s.

[Chuck]

I'm sure it's affected it because remember.

[Elaine]

We'Re always speaking from our experience and it, it seems like, you know, it's, we have a bit of a confirmation bias because we grew up in a certain generation. We grew up in a generation where the government was telling you fat is bad for you. And so if you're a female and you're looking at your, your typical diet, you're oh my God, well, there's bacon, I gotta stop eating the steak.

[Justin Andrews]

Butter, full fat milk butter.

[Elaine]

Yeah. So they start cutting out. These foods many times are paired with protein. And so maybe that's why we saw such a huge.

[Justin Andrews]

You might be right. Because think of a high protein, super lowfat food and it's not very tasty. It's chicken breast.

[Elaine]

Yeah, chicken breast. Fish. Yeah. You don't get a lot of. No, not even all fish whites.

[Justin Andrews]

You know, skim milk. By the way, again, this is one of those pieces of advice that was not only wrong, it was opposite. In other words, it caused more problems. We'll use milk as an example. Skim milk causes nutrient deficiencies. You need the fats in milk to absorb the fat soluble vitamins. In fact, if you look at the studies on dairy and things like osteoporosis, people were doing skim milk thinking the calcium was gonna help them. There was no fat in it. You actually had some problems versus whole fat milk, which is very, very healthy. So we avoided some of the most nutrient dense healthy foods because of this fear and then replaced it all with processed foods and in particular sugars. And then lastly, you named this one as well, Adam Salt. Sodium. Avoid sodium. Don't have any sodium. Sodium is really bad for you. And then they'll bring up studies that show that people who eat a lot of sodium have more heart disease and.

[Chuck]

More strokes, high blood pressure, and people.

[Justin Andrews]

Who eat low sodium tend to be healthier. The problem with those studies is nobody's controlling for heavily processed foods. So people, if you took 1,000 typical Americans and took out the 20% that had the most sodium, what you're also showing are 20% that is the most processed foods. Because processed foods tend to be higher in sodium. Remember, they're trying to make them palatable. Is it the sodium or is it the fact that they're eating lots of calories from heavily processed foods? Sodium is also essential. And if you work out, if you try to keep a low sodium diet and you work out, you're killing yourself. Absolutely destroying yourself. And there's many times I had clients who would have things like lethargy, brain fog, low performance, and all I would do was add salt to their water. They would come in, I'd have Himalayan pink salt. I'd add it to their water, and then within 10 minutes, they're like, whoa, I feel so much better. It's like, you're on, you guys, you need more sodium.

[Elaine]

Do you think this is why we've seen the explosion of like, you know, brands like our, our partners, like Element, is because people have been lacking, deficient. They're coming off like, you think about how brilliant. And of course, there's so many other companies that followed suit after Element. I think Element was one of the leaders of doing it the right way too. Because by the way, electrolytes have been around forever. But electrolytes before was just a bunch of water down, sprinkled a little watered down sugar, casious does for the longest time. I mean, Gatorades dominated that space for most of our generation.

[Justin Andrews]

Gatorade changed their form.

[Elaine]

No, because of companies like Element doing it the right way. They were forced to pivot and change it. I'm sure they took a decent piece of their market share.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah.

[Elaine]

When you these the companies that have now started and are doing that original.

[Justin Andrews]

Gatorade, like you said.

[Chuck]

Yeah, they started out really.

[Elaine]

Oh, highly concentrated, really Original, original powder.

[Chuck]

It was rough to drink. I don't know if you remember it.

[Elaine]

I don't remember.

[Chuck]

Yeah, they would actually. So on the sidelines, they would, they would pour in this powder is like orange or green powder. And it was very, very salt.

[Justin Andrews]

University of Florida.

[Elaine]

Interesting. You know, my first experience with Gatorade as a kid was in the, in the bottles and sugar. I mean, it was like, it tasted like a good drink.

[Justin Andrews]

That's when it all changed. But, but when it first got invented.

[Elaine]

I didn't know that it got used.

[Justin Andrews]

At University of Florida.

[Elaine]

I do know that that's where it started.

[Justin Andrews]

They were giving their athletes electrolyte powder.

[Chuck]

It was much more intense. When you, when you go to these other states that are like, you know, they have humidity and they have a lot more. I mean, there's a lot more like sort of intensity around that with athletes because like they were dropping, you know, people were passing out and like. So yeah, they were. They're handing those out in conjunction with the water and it was very salt.

[Elaine]

So they went. When do you guys know when they went away from that?

[Justin Andrews]

I think when it started mass market. Because this, the anti sodium message started in the, I want to say the early to mid-80s.

[Elaine]

How crazy is that? Like a product like that, that came out, doing it the right way changed just because of the narrative. Right. Even though they had a superior product, they changed to a.

[Chuck]

They tried to make it more palatable to the marketable.

[Elaine]

I didn't know that consumer. I thought they were always low.

[Justin Andrews]

No, the consumer came out and demanded a lower sodium version because they keep getting this message that sodium is bad for them. Then they're looking at the bottle. Oh my God. It's got.

[Elaine]

Imagine, imagine if you're the scientist that's behind the formulation of creating the first one. You've got to be pulling your hair out when they're coming to you saying, hey, we need you to go back and rip this all. You're like, no, that was the point of this.

[Chuck]

But that was the crazy part because we'd get weighed in before we go to the. Especially these games that were like 90 degrees and like 80% humidity. Crazy, right? And so you have to weigh in first to make sure you're hydrated. But like, you're not going to retain the water if you're not. Like you don't have a good electrolyte balance. You know, you don't have that ability to retain the water. So it's like, you know, you lose all this weight and then you get dehydrated and pass out.

[Justin Andrews]

There was another brand that had to kind of change their strategy. Mr. Salty. You guys remember Mr. Salty? What was that? Like peanuts or. It was something like that. It was like peanuts or was pretzels. And then this anti sodium campaign happened, like, oops, we gotta change our name.

[Chuck]

Mr. Salty.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah. Doug, did you look up? Do you remember Mr. Salty? Doug, you gotta remember, remember.

[Elaine]

Yes, Peanuts.

[Justin Andrews]

Was it peanuts?

[Elaine]

Pretzels Pretzels. I thought it was Peanuts.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah, yeah. So there. And I remember people would laugh about it, like, oh, my God, why would you Name your company Mr. Salty?

[Chuck]

Didn't planners?

[Elaine]

Peanuts. And the science behind this is so Element.

[Justin Andrews]

So Element came out. Electrolytes have been around for a long time. Element comes out and they're like, screw the myth. We're gonna do this the right way. We're gonna put a thousand milligrams of sodium, which nobody would have done until Element proved that they could get people to understand. Right?

[Elaine]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

Because that was like murder. Like, you're gonna put a thousand milligrams.

[Elaine]

You know what helps about that? They. They started in advertising and podcast space 100, where we could long form, communicate, educate, and explain to the audience. They're now on television. You can see their commercials on TV and stuff like that.

[Justin Andrews]

And now they have a bunch of copycats, right?

[Elaine]

Yeah. Now there's four or five brands that are. That are doing similar stuff, but they started small and they started in podcast.

[Justin Andrews]

Space, by the way. So just for people, a little. Little history with us in Element, they sent us a box of electrolytes way before we ever tried it. Because I saw them. I typically.

[Elaine]

And you dismissed it before ever looking at it.

[Justin Andrews]

Right. So I'm typically the gatekeeper for supplements because that's my favorite thing. So I'll look at it and I'll be, oh, electrolyte powder. Like, I'm not interested. Right? Yeah. And we went months and months and months, uninteresting. I remember they reached out to us like, hey, did you try it? And then I found out Rob Wolf was behind it. I love him. So I'm like, huh, Let me look at it. I looked at the box and I was like, oh, my God, this has thousand milligrams. This has enough sodium in it to make a difference. And then I. And then I thought, it's also going to taste good because sodium is palatable. I'm like, they're going to explode. It's going to make people feel better. We need to work with them. And we did.

[Elaine]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

And of course, they're. They're. They're the leaders now in the space. Everybody.

[Elaine]

It is funny that it sat in our studio for as long as it's right back there. Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

Literally a box right back there just sat there.

[Elaine]

You know why? Because everything before that, electrolytes were a joke.

[Justin Andrews]

A joke.

[Elaine]

They weren't even. They weren't even doing what they were supposed to do. And we knew that. And so it was Just like, whatever. And then I remember, I still remember the day you looked at you like, holy this got a thousand milligrams.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah.

[Elaine]

Nobody does that. Nobody puts that in there.

[Justin Andrews]

No, no. All right. Speaking of exercise and fitness and stuff, I read this cool study on exercise and how it affects your nerves. So let me pull up the study. By the way, if you ever want to find really good studies, I've quoted them before, Science daily dot com. They post great articles there. New studies.

[Elaine]

Are you reading them like on their website? Are you on a forum?

[Justin Andrews]

No, no, on their forum. I'm sorry, on their website. And they have like a menu area where you could select like I'll click on the menu just before I get into it. You could go health studies. And then there's subcategories in health like fitness.

[Elaine]

Oh, interesting.

[Justin Andrews]

Alzheimer's, you know, aging, whatever. There's tech, environment, society.

[Elaine]

Now there's quirky studies. Is it, is it set up to where you have to read like the full abstract and like that was a summary so you can kind of like it's all summary. Okay.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah, it's very EAS for the average person.

[Elaine]

That's why studies can get a little. For the average person.

[Chuck]

I mean, you got to know how to read them.

[Elaine]

Yeah, you do.

[Justin Andrews]

And they're a pain in the butt. So what I do is I'll pull up, I'll go on Science Daily. Like I'm going to read this one right now. I'll read, I'll read to you what they write and then if I want more information, then I'll pull up the actual.

[Elaine]

And then you'll dive into it. Right.

[Justin Andrews]

So this was a study done at the masses Massachusetts Institute of Technology. This is, they, they published this on 19 November of this year. The summary says exercise can have benefits at the level of neurons through chemical and mechanical effects. Researchers find the discovery could inform exercise related therapies for repairing damaged and deteriorating nerves. So this is great. Now this is something that we kind of know, but now we are kind of seeing now how it works and basically the cellular level experiments that suggest that exercise has a significant biochemical effect on nerve growth. So exercise is pro health, pro growth. If you do it right, it's anabolic in the sense that it's causing the proliferation of these tissues or growth of tissues that are beneficial because exercise is a stress. So it encourages that. And one of the things that helps grow are your nerves, which is you want, you want healthy nerves and you want neurons that grow and connect.

[Elaine]

Would this be the science that helps support things like kinstretch. And when we do these isometric holds and we're trying to gain you a.

[Chuck]

Guy that was his entire training focus was on this aspect alone. And it was very isometric and focus driven and like holding positions and yeah.

[Elaine]

Apparently there was like, wouldn't that go hand in hand? Yeah, I mean, it seems like that, that that study would help support, improve why this is why that's so beneficial.

[Justin Andrews]

What they're saying here is this. So this goes even further. I'll read a quote from one of the researchers. Now that we know that muscle nerve crosstalk exists, which is what they've identified in the study, it can be useful for treating things like nerve injury, where communication between nerve and muscle is cut off. So maybe if we stimulate the muscle, we could encourage the nerve to heal and restore mobility to those who have lost it due to traumatic injury or neurodegenerative diseases.

[Chuck]

Wow.

[Justin Andrews]

Now, I have experience, not personal, not myself, but with clients of training people who have suffered from neurodegenerative diseases or injury.

[Chuck]

Yeah, I've heard of slight paralysis, even like recoveries.

[Justin Andrews]

I've seen some miraculous thing. Clients. I had this one woman who had nerve damage down her arm. And luckily. Now, I surmise that the sooner you get therapy or you do exercise, the more likely you are to regain function. Like, if you wait too long, it might be an issue. But I worked with this woman, I'll never forget. She was in a boating accident and had nerve damage. And so she came to me when she was able to exercise. Her friend recommended her. And you could see atrophy on her right side. So she had atrophy on her. I'm trying to remember her rhomboid. Summon her, Del. You could see it. It was like. And you could see the function. Like, we would do an exercise and you'd see one scapula move differently. Now, I, as a trainer, I didn't have any of these studies, but I thought, we're going to strengthen these movement patterns anyway, worst case scenario. And this is how I communicated it to her, said, worst case scenario. Because she said for sure have nerve damage. The neurologist said that it's not connecting. I said, look, worst case scenario, we're going to strengthen these movement patterns and help create situations where your body's going to help compensate. So at the very least, I can help you build compensation so you can function okay. And so that's what we did. And I did exercises like rows or shrugs, you know, isometric exercises. Lots of Where I would get her to connect a little bit, and then we'd stop, and I'd have her just intensify. And this woman, miraculously, we gained, like, 70% of function back with something like that. And I remember her coming to me and saying, my doctor, so rad has no idea what's happening now as a. As a trainer, it's like, look, we're just. We're just strengthening these movement patterns. But they have ways of testing the connection between that connection and she. That was one person in particular that I remember. And we were able to get some hypertrophy back.

[Elaine]

How old was.

[Justin Andrews]

She was in her 50s.

[Elaine]

Wow.

[Justin Andrews]

She was in her 50s.

[Elaine]

Wow.

[Justin Andrews]

So it's cool. You know, exercise is like this pro growth. Not just muscle growth, but everything kind of growth, you know, any tissue method.

[Elaine]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

Which is really, really cool.

[Elaine]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

Anyway, I want to read something to you guys. Justin heard me earlier, and he got all emotional, so. It's good, dude. It's good stuff, bro.

[Chuck]

I told you. Yeah, I do. It actually makes me sad, dude.

[Justin Andrews]

I know. Okay, so. Okay, so you guys know this. Our audience doesn't know this. We have a bunch of kids that we. That we support through an organization called World Vision.

[Elaine]

The audience, they don't know that, do they?

[Justin Andrews]

No, they don't know.

[Elaine]

I was gonna say. You haven't said that.

[Justin Andrews]

No, no. You know this. So our. Our World Vision, by the way, I did. I did my research. It's. That's, like, one of the best charities they have. Some of the. They get heavily scrutinized. They score super, super high. Most of the money that goes to them goes. We have no affiliation, by the way. It's just, you know, my own research, because I was trying to find something.

[Chuck]

For something legit that we could.

[Justin Andrews]

To work.

[Chuck]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

But anyway, there's these kids that we support, and then they'll write letters to us. So one of our kids, this from Senegal, she sends in this little. She draws an outline of her hand so you can see a little hand right here.

[Elaine]

Oh, I didn't know you guys.

[Justin Andrews]

And then it says. You know. And it's like little boxes where they fell out. And you could tell someone else is writing for them, but it says someone special to me is. And then what she wrote in, and they translated it was her mom because she gives me food. And it said a few things that make me happy are apples. Apples.

[Chuck]

Right. Right there.

[Justin Andrews]

Right in the. You know, here's a little kid and, like, the thing that they wanted to write to us to tell Us that makes him happy is an apple.

[Elaine]

Oh.

[Justin Andrews]

Just unbelievably makes you realize just how blessed we are and how, you know, how like the context. Right. Changes perception.

[Elaine]

Yeah. You know, this is interesting you bring this up right now too, because last night one of the things that Katrina and I were discussing was I just, I have, I feel all this conviction around the amount of toys and things that my son has. And I'm just. And like I'm wrestling with how to handle this with her and I. And I'm telling her, I'm like, you know, we, and we do a really good job too of like explaining to him like the value of things and things that are like, like, it's not like he just gets whatever he wants, but he just, he's got a lot of family, a lot of family that are close by and a lot of people that want to do things for him. And so it's like I'm in this weird predicament of what do I do tell my, my brother in law, like, you can't give my son stuff. You can't. It's like so. And it just totally get it. And so it's just piling up. Right. And I'm like, I know this, this is. And I was trying to explain to Katrina, she's like, well, we teach him all these things. I'm like, yeah, but it can't be a healthy relationship for him to have this much abundance, this much early because then it becomes, there becomes an expectation of that and it's like, I want him.

[Justin Andrews]

Like how many of our kids, if you ask them. Yeah. Imagine our kids. What makes you happy. I don't think anyone say apple.

[Chuck]

No, no, I know.

[Elaine]

And they wouldn't even say toy because they have so many.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah.

[Elaine]

You know what I'm saying? But maybe if he only had two or three, he would. Well, so it's like struggle with this.

[Justin Andrews]

You know what I did recently that. So you guys remember previous podcasts I talked about the study, the data on the value of charity. So little recap. Right. When you've covered your basic needs, if you want to use extra money to improve your happiness, the data shows very clearly that the most giving, cost effective way to do it, the most effective way to make yourself happier with money is to use it in a way that helps others to give either to charity or to somebody in need. It has to come from your own heart, can't be forced, otherwise the effect is lost. And then there's no novelty effect that wears off. Like, like there is with other ways of using money. Like if I bought a new car or did this cool experience, if I repeated it, the effect wears off. I don't get happy anymore. But charity, never give, never goes away. There is no novelty effect. It always makes you happy. And if you did it once, every time you think about it, you improve your happiness.

[Elaine]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

So you did it one time 10 years from now, you could talk about the time you help somebody and you'll get this happiness. Which, by the way, just side note, this counters evolutionary theory quite effectively because there's zero evolutionary basis. Zero.

[Elaine]

Yeah. There's zero evolution survival. There's no benefit to us.

[Justin Andrews]

No. Evolution would say selfish. Like, keep it for myself. That would make me happy.

[Chuck]

Well, until we learned the value of community.

[Justin Andrews]

And where do you get that from?

[Chuck]

Right, that point. Yeah. Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

That points to, like, a higher power. Like, why. Why is it that we derive more happiness from helping others than we do from keeping to ourselves?

[Chuck]

You see that clear contrast?

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah.

[Chuck]

You know, once you're in the community, it's amazing how much more you thrive.

[Elaine]

Right.

[Justin Andrews]

Yep. So anyway, so what I did was again, through the same organization, World Vision, you can. You go, and there's kids you can sponsor, and they show you the kid.

[Elaine]

Right.

[Justin Andrews]

You communicate with them. So I had Aurelius pick the kids.

[Elaine]

Okay.

[Justin Andrews]

And then they write us letters. And then we get the letters and I show him, and then I'm. And then we're writing back.

[Elaine]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

And so I'm hoping that does a little bit of what you're saying.

[Elaine]

Yeah. I told you what I wanted to do, and we still haven't done it yet. And I guess that's my own fault for not prioritizing it. And Katrina's argument back with me is that. That he's barely understanding right now. Like, she's like, don't worry. When he gets to that point, we will. And I just. I don't know. Again, this is maybe me. I'm just being paranoid early, like that. It's, you know. Okay, well, at what point do we start to cut back on that? And what point? Because I want to use this move that we'll have.

[Justin Andrews]

So her and I will be getting rid of stuff.

[Elaine]

Yeah. So what I want. This is my. What I proposed. And you guys can tell me if I'm off. Off balance here or it's a good idea. But I'm like, I want us to. And by the way, there's, like, there's. There's twofold here. One, it's the abundance of that. And then Three also just. It's a mess. I'm the one who cleans up all his toys every single day. It's, like, so much. It's like, this is ridiculous. You know what I'm saying? So, anyway, so when we. When we move, what I want to do is he has a toy chest, and, like, what fits in there? Those are his toys. And once that's full, the only way we get anything new from anybody is something's got to go out of there. And so it's like, okay, when we. So. And. And the best way to do that, in my opinion, is when we make this move, like, in, like. Okay, let's. Here's where your toy's gonna be. Pick your. All your favorites that will go in here. And then we've now narrowed down to this toy box. And then as. Because it's. I can't stop it. And it literally is almost every week.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah. People want to get him.

[Elaine]

Yeah. People getting himself.

[Justin Andrews]

He's the baby of the family.

[Elaine]

Yeah, exactly. He is the baby of the family, too. So everybody wants to. To do stuff for him all the time. And so. And I know it's unfair of me to try to rob that from them. Right. Because I know what that feels like. There's part of me where I want to get him something. It's like, I don't want to do it because he's been getting all this stuff, but then I want to have that too. Right. But I know that's selfish, so I refrain from that. So my goal is that when we move, let's get this thing narrowed down to, like, what fits in it. And then as he wants things or as people get things from him, I want. And then what I want to do is go give that to somebody in need. Right. So it's like, you got to get rid of one toy, and we're going to give it to a kid who needs it or give it to a family. Right.

[Justin Andrews]

And so he gets to see.

[Elaine]

That's right. So he gets to see someone else getting that fulfillment, joy. He also has this appreciation for that. He also recognizes he has an abundance and other kids don't.

[Justin Andrews]

What a great thing to develop, too, as a young age, because he'll start to feel the. Like, what I talked about earlier, that happiness that comes from it.

[Elaine]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

And he'll. He'll. He'll identify it at a young age. And that. That should.

[Elaine]

I guess. I guess what I'm wrestling with or what Katrina and I are going back and forth because she. She tends to defend it and be like, honey, we, we're fine. We're aware of it, we pay attention to it, we talked about it. He's just barely understanding it right now. And she goes, he, Once he fully understands, well, then I'm like, all right. But I'm just, I keep, I keep expressing it that when, when, when are we gonna do this? Because at some point he's gonna grow up to be the kid who expects all those things. And I don't want that. And that's my, my biggest fear.

[Chuck]

No, I mean, this is like a constant conversation. We have the same thing where it's like we don't. We see tendencies and then we, you know, we communicate it, we address it, and it's like a constant thing. We're trying to think outside of yourself. And like, this is not all, like, everything is so self driven because especially right now in the teen years, like, it, they, they have like horse blinders. Like everything revolves around them. And so it's like, how do we, how do we break them out of this? How do they give them another perspective? And I, I think we're, we're trying to do now because he's old enough. It's like, like, especially Ethan. It's like we got to get him out and working amongst other people and like doing some kind of mission trip, some kind of charitable work, some. Something that shows like, look, people struggle, man. You know, like, this is a totally unique situation you're in, man. And like, you got to appreciate that. So. And it's. Yeah, it's, it's tough because. Because you really do have to like place them there.

[Justin Andrews]

You know, what's crazy about all this is that we are. I mean, it's just. You can't argue this or debate this. We live in a time with more entertainment and material goods and food than we've ever had, ever. And anxiety and depression and loneliness. This is why I like higher than ever.

[Elaine]

This is why I like this conversation, Sal. Because this isn't just a thing of the elite class. Even people that are middle class or don't have a lot of money, even the kids have. A kid that is considered poor today has more and more toys than the rich kid 40 years ago. That's how, that's how crazy society is coming this direction. So I think this is a relevant conversation anywhere you land financially.

[Chuck]

Well, it's a narcissistic world we live in, man. Like, look at social media. Look at like all the pursuits, the highest. What do kids want to become? They want to become an influence they want to become somebody that's like, everybody, you know, showers with attention and all. Like, it's such an off perspective.

[Justin Andrews]

It's crazy, too, when you talk to people, too, that are in need. It just like that letter apple, you know, like Jessica, there was this man that she ran into. Who was he? I don't. She doesn't know if he was homeless or not. He looked like he was. He was in a wheelchair. It was outside, it was raining. It's cold. And she walked up to him and asked him, do you need anything? Is there anything I could do for you? And he said, I just need a blanket. A blanket?

[Elaine]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

He could ask for anything. I'm cold. I need a blanket.

[Elaine]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

So it's just, it's crazy, man. Perspective. It's perspective.

[Elaine]

Yeah, I know. I just. And I don't want to. I don't want to screw up as a dad who isn't on top of it and aware of it and teaching that at an, at an early age. I mean, that's how you. That's how you end up with a little. For a teenager or an adult, because I failed. So it won't be his fault. It'd be my fault as a dad of not being aware of that and making sure I, I. And I feel like if I'm. If I'm aware of it and I'm on top of it early, then it makes an easier. At least that's what it's been so far for the first five years of his life. Life. The things that I was on top of early and aware of and just slowly building a good relationship with is now made raising him very easy in those areas. And so I look at, When I try and look at the things I need to work on with him right now, this is the biggest one that jumps out at me that could bite me in the ass in 10 years if I'm not on top of it or even in three years that I didn't start it early, that now it's like pulling teeth to do those things.

[Justin Andrews]

You know what's crazy about all this, too, is that we have to also consider is that in the data that I cite, if you feel in any way forced or like you're supposed to or you have to, you lose that effect. So if, like, let's say you're, you're. You're in this organization, you know, whatever, and everybody's like, oh, we got to give. Everybody's got to give, and you feel pressured, you're like, okay, you lose the effect. It has to be something you do out of your own.

[Chuck]

Totally your own heart driven.

[Elaine]

Otherwise it can do the complete opposite, which it could harbor resentment. This is what happened to me as a kid when. So when we were younger, you know, some of. I have the like, of course, and it's unfortunate that I'm aware of this, that you, you know, you. You tend to. As a kid, I had. I probably had plenty of really good moments and times in my life, but unfortunately, the things that stick out are all the things that affected me emotionally. That. And one of the things that I struggled so much with was, you know, there was times where like, if a grandmother or aunt or uncle sent like, birthday money to us, like my. My parents would take it for food or bills or what that. Because we needed it. And then even like guilt me if I didn't right away turn it over.

[Justin Andrews]

So you didn't feel like you were help. Helping. You felt like it was.

[Elaine]

Exactly. And so then what did that. Cause later on in life, like, I don't want to do that because I feel like I had to do that my whole life. So it took me a long time.

[Justin Andrews]

Wow. What a great. What a great thing to understand.

[Elaine]

Oh, dude was very. And so it took a long time for me to come all the way around to want to do that. And it's a huge difference. Like you said, when you, you know, when you give under the. You need to, you have to versus I want to. It's not the same thing. It's very, very.

[Justin Andrews]

You know, they find this too, in societies where taxation goes up or there's more and more of these kind of government programs. Charity goes down, down, down, down, down. And people feel less of that. Like, I'm helping.

[Elaine]

Right.

[Justin Andrews]

They don't get that same value because it's forced. Isn't that interesting? Human psychology is so interesting, and yet.

[Chuck]

We still apply force. Force, force. That's like the. The common standard.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah.

[Chuck]

It's like, so frustrating.

[Justin Andrews]

I feel like it's like if. If people could feel the joy, what it actually feels like, like to go and help. Boy, would that. Because that would. Then. Then more people would want to do it and you'd find like, oh, my God, this feels so good.

[Chuck]

You're drawn to doing it.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah. Bishop Baron called it spiritual physics.

[Chuck]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

The more you empty yourself, the more you fill up.

[Elaine]

And I think that's. I think that my desired outcome of this whole thing is like the dance of not making my son feel resented is resented because I take his stuff away. Then I say, we have to give your toy to some kid. Right. I don't want that to come from it. What I want to come from it is he gets to see the other side of someone who doesn't have as much, and then he gets to feel that reward of the kid who gets really excited because he does that. Like, so how do I, as a dad, like, implement that into his life without tipping the other side?

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah.

[Elaine]

So that's the, that's the dance, right? And that's Katrina's. In her defense, like, that's. She's like, he's still not understanding. What he sees is, you're taking his toys.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah.

[Elaine]

You know what I'm saying? And so, so when he understands more on what he's doing, then we will. And I'm. So this is where I'm, like, kind of being patient of like, okay, like, I, I.

[Justin Andrews]

That's a good point.

[Elaine]

It is. It's a fair argument, right? So I'm like, okay. And I guess as long as we're paying attention, I just, I said, I just feel like, you know, it's. It's five years now before, you know, he's 10. You know what I'm saying? That he's 15. It's like, and when did we start it? Right? It's never going to be completely easy. So it's definitely one of the big conversations right now with us.

[Justin Andrews]

Speaking of kids, I just had this crazy thought. Not crazy. It's like this awareness thought this morning. Every morning when I leave for work, my two little ones will sit on the counter. There's a window facing out, and they'll sit on the counter. I'll pull out, and then I'll honk, and they wave, and I drive off. And if they don't hear me honk or if I forget, then I got to turn back around to do it. And sometimes I'm in a hurry, and I'm like, ah, I got to do it, and the kids aren't up there yet, and I got to wait type of deal. And this morning, I had one of those moments, and then I thought I had this realization, like, like, one day I'm just gonna drive off, and there's gonna be no, they're not gonna want to wave at me and hear me honk. So I, like, just relished in that moment, you know, because that's what happens. They grow up, and then you want to hang out with them, and they're like, no, I don't want to hang.

[Elaine]

Out with you anymore. I mean, I think that's the thing that for every parent. Right. If it's great to be aware that. I mean this, this is probably one of the things that's probably, I would imagine has served you so well is having the gap.

[Justin Andrews]

Yes. Because tremendously.

[Elaine]

Because I know you probably feel that all the time with the oldest, like, oh my God, where did it go? And then you have this like reminder and these young ones, it's like, okay, I have opportunity to slow it down as much as I possibly can. I'm sure you constantly have that conversation.

[Chuck]

Yeah, I've been working on all kinds of projects because this is always like, you know, it's the last minute procrastination and it's finals and all this stuff with the kids and it's always like, you know, some creative project. Of course, like you know, stress and ah. I'm like, oh, let me, let me figure this out. I've. I've made more projects in the last like couple weeks than I've made like in a long time. Is one of them was like a crossbow of like cardboard and then another one was all these posters and all. And I was like, dude, I not knowing that as an adult I would do more like school projects than I.

[Elaine]

Do, I can't do, I swear to God.

[Chuck]

And it's cool because this school really promotes that. It's like a lot of, you know, hands on type of learning and, and also to visuals in conjunction with just memorizing everything. So I love it. But at the same time, you know, the. They have ideas and they're, they're. I'm making sure they're doing the majority of it, but it's like just getting, you know, all of that set up it like I ended up just, I'm just like in it. And again to your point, I'm trying to like instead of getting stressed or frustrated, it's like late at night. Yeah. I'm like, we're working. We had to do a couple to like midnight. You know, I'm like doing all like oh my God. And we're still doing this. You know, these rubber bands are snapping. But it's like he was, was so thankful and like, like Everett was just like so sweet about it like thanking me like you really saved me, dad.

[Justin Andrews]

You know.

[Elaine]

100. Hey, I keep forgetting to ask you about your. Because you, you've transferred the kids to a school that my buddy just ran rants and raves about. They absolutely love it. So what has the experience been with the new school? Like are there, are there glaring? Okay, so there's like big obvious, huge difference. Really? Like what, like what do you just.

[Chuck]

Their buy in their challenge.

[Elaine]

Oh, from them? A complete one.

[Justin Andrews]

From.

[Chuck]

Yeah, from my kids.

[Elaine]

Oh.

[Chuck]

In terms of them being challenged and stimulated and really talking about school and like, oh my God, I gotta figure this out. And it's just like, like, I hate to say it, like my old school, and I loved my old school because I had a good experience going through it, but it just the, the quality of the education went way down. And I just saw that and I saw just, just, you know, when kids aren't stimulated, when they're not challenged, they're not. Like there was this weird idea that like, let's give them less homework and let's give them less like, let's give them all these like parachutes and fail safes so if they mess up on this, they can just make it up. And what does that teach them? It teaches them that they're always going to have an option later to, to clean up their shitty work, you know? And I'm like, no, that is not a good message.

[Justin Andrews]

Listen, it's. It's tough for kids who struggle to catch up, but it's also very tough for some kids who feel bored and unstimulated. If your kid is not in the bottom middle, they suffer oftentimes in school because they're just sitting there bored. I hated school. I love learning. I love learning. I hate it. I was so bored in school. So unstable. It sucks. I can't wait to get out of here. I couldn't imagine having a stimulating environment like the one your kids are the ones that. My kids. Kids. Yeah, you know, my older ones.

[Elaine]

So was the, was the first one public and this was private or.

[Chuck]

Yeah, yeah, it was public. I mean, it was one of the top schools though, like public schools in California for a while. I mean it. They had a really good education system and just. It's gone. And it. Yeah. So this school is it too. Like, I was, I'm a little jealous because like, if I, I was like, oh my God, if I would have been in this environment, like, how cool. I would have been, like, excited, you know, like, because there's just all these electives and cool things that like, I would have never had the opportunity to go through. So yeah, it's, you know, and that's the thing. Like you got to make a commitment, a sacrifice. It's not just the, the financial sacrifice, obviously we're making with it, with both of them in there, but also it's. Now it's the Commute. It's the drive. It's. It's literally been really tough because it's. Some days it's two hours. Like we get stuck in all this crazy traffic because of the construction is they're redoing the whole highway. Wait just to get there. And this is why we're motivated to move close because it's just like a nightmare, dude. And Courtney's been like, like sometimes it's four hours because two hours there, two hours back.

[Justin Andrews]

Oh my God. Wait, two hours.

[Chuck]

It should only take like 40 minutes to get there from where we live.

[Elaine]

Wow.

[Chuck]

And some days it's just like that. And then. And so the kids are like ah, like running stressed, trying to get to school and you know we're having to communicate and email the teacher. Sorry, you know like this is what happened.

[Elaine]

But they know, they have to know you're in the middle of a transition with the house and stuff.

[Chuck]

They know it.

[Elaine]

Ok.

[Chuck]

But yeah, it's like weekend things and they have friends now that are like further away. So we're sacrificing a lot of our time to do things personally to shuttle them to their friends and get them involved. So they have community to do these like sports and extracurricular things. And so that's just sort of our life right now. And we're just like, you know what, we're doing this to make sure that they get embedded in this whole thing.

[Elaine]

Well, it's crazy that in this short period of time you already feel a 180 which is. That has to be motivating to make it worth it. Right? Because it would suck. You did all that work and it's just like the kids are nothing I'm saying. But I. Is the. Because one of the things I noticed with, with Max's school that it just blew me away and I didn't realize it like in how unique that. How it was compared to previous schools I'd seen is the ratio of adults or teachers to the kids. I mean he, he every day he's got. Yeah, he's got three different teachers every day. Like three main teachers that he has and he's got two that are. That they co teach for the first half of the day and then the back half of the day he's got an extra one that goes in the back half of the day is more. Is more play centric although they still teach and stuff like that. But it's like more like the extended of school or daycare type stuff. And then the first, the first half is like the very Structured school part, but it's like there's only like 17 kids in the class, and you get two teachers. I mean, the amount of attention that the, the kids are getting just from.

[Chuck]

That teachers, I'm sure energized and they're, you know, bringing in that new, these.

[Elaine]

New ideas and just so in tune soon, like, he's so, I mean, Katrina more so than I am because she's the one who picks him up most of the time. Like, I just was talking to her yesterday on the way home. I'm like, what are you doing? She's like, oh, I was hanging out, talking to the teachers before I left. They. But she'll spend 30, 40 minutes some days after school just talking about our son and the behaviors you're noticing, the things he's doing well and what we can work on as parents and like just that conversation. And I don't know, I don't know if that is more us because what we're actually doing or is that that more the teacher who's trying to do that or a combination of both.

[Justin Andrews]

Nation.

[Elaine]

Yeah. Like, is it, you know, would that still happen if he was at a different school? Like, I don't know. Like, but I definitely, I really, really appreciate that. And we've obviously had to make some hard decisions. Last year we, we kept him back. Right?

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah.

[Elaine]

And hard to do that when he's smart and he's getting. But knowing that socially, he needs a little more time to mature. And I'm glad that we listened to the advice of that because he's thriving now as far as the way where he is leadership in this, in the.

[Justin Andrews]

Classroom, speaking, education stuff. I know you did a, a webinar yesterday for our trainers and coaches. How did that go?

[Elaine]

Yeah, good. I love that stuff, dude.

[Justin Andrews]

I, I, I know all of us are so passionate. It's so fun. Right? Well, it's like running gyms again.

[Elaine]

Well, what's really funny too, is that, you know, I love Kyle and An. There's they've been such an incredible asset to our team. Like, I just, I love Kyle like a son. And having someone like an is so opposite of us. Like, having this, this detailed.

[Chuck]

It's a massive need for us.

[Elaine]

She's like a rock star teacher. Right? So, like, we needed for our business. Like, we're all very visionary. Go, you know, jump out of the.

[Justin Andrews]

Place, organize it, put on paper.

[Elaine]

Oh, man. I mean, figure it out. And, you know, so, so I come into these talks and it's like, this is awesome. Like, I mean, she's got. She's got my bullet, like everything laid out for me of like what I need to cover. Now the funny part is, and I always end up like, apologizing afterwards, I go off script. You know, I get on a, on a tangent on something and then especially when I'm talking to trainers, because a trainer, all a trainer has to do is to say something that will trigger a memory or like, oh, okay, I know what you're thinking or what you're feeling. And then I'll. I'll go off. And so I did definitely. And I don't know if you guys watched it or not, but I hadn't been on a heater like that in a while.

[Justin Andrews]

And.

[Elaine]

But then right afterwards, 30, wow, maybe 45 minutes, an hour later, and created like a awful. What I did, which was off script from what I was supposed to do, do basically a killer handout.

[Chuck]

Oh yeah.

[Elaine]

For the trainers to go use what.

[Justin Andrews]

I'm like, what were you covering in that? What were you. What were you trying.

[Elaine]

So for the. It was. So it was supposed to be email marketing and, and closing out Q4 and getting ready for January. And so because getting ready for the new year for your business was the, the main focus and somebody said something and this is what set me off off was, you know, that time. I don't know if there was like a hundred people in there or not or about, about that whatever, but I'm like, I know that if I put you guys on the spot right now, less than half of you would be able to answer this question. And I said, what is your show close and average per sale on your business, no matter how big or small you are, you should know that. And if you don't know that, how can you actually go into the new year and plan right? I said, most of my career, what I had to do was I always had a staff of 15 to 20 trainers at the beginning of every single month. I sat down with adjustin with a Sal and said, okay, Sal, what's. What do you plan to make this month? And you would say, eight grand, Adam. And I'd say, okay, how do you plan to get there? And you'd be like, well, and you name a couple clients, they're going to resign this and that. And then you'd be. And then I'd be like, okay, well what about the other six grand? Or I'll work hard, I'll try and be like, no, that's not how you run a business. So like, there is a way for you to actually Methodically attack that number and guarantee you're gonna go get it. And people, I'm like, but you first have to know these things. You first have to know how many people do you have to talk to in order to get a percentage of them to show up and meet you? And then of those people that show up and meet you, how many of those do you have to meet with to trans. That translate into a sale or a client? And then are the ones that actually buy something from you and become a client. Client. What is the average dollar that they spend? And it doesn't need to be. You don't need to have thousands to figure this out. You just need to have some. You just need to have some consistent. And then you can reverse engineer that. And you. And then instead of.

[Justin Andrews]

You know exactly what to do.

[Elaine]

That's right. And instead of, instead of like. And the. Why this is so powerful for trainers is because trainers don't become trainers to talk about sales and money. And so a lot of them are so resistant. And I'm like, so let's not talk about that. Let's talk about helping people and how many people you have to help and talk to in order for that to happen. And you can figure. And that should be. You shouldn't be thinking about a dollar amount. You should be thinking about, I need to meet 10 people today. Because I know if every day I meet 10 people, that will result in 50 appointments. And if I have 50 appointments, I know that 20 people will enroll with me. And if 20 people enroll with me, that should be a dollar amount of this.

[Justin Andrews]

If every trainer and coach understood that alone and continue with their passion, which is helping people, we would be able to make a dent in these chronic health issues. We would be able to really start.

[Chuck]

To shift reaching so many more people.

[Justin Andrews]

We would be able to help so many people. Rather than navigating in the dark without a flashlight and just being like, oh, I think I'll just try this or try that. You don't know. You have no idea because you don't know. It's like not tracking your food. And then you come to me and say, I want to gain or lose weight. Well, do you know how much protein you're eating? Do you know how much? I don't have no idea. Okay, well, I don't know where to go yet. Yet. Let's start by gathering. Let's start by gathering some information. And then based off of that, then we can start to move in the right direction.

[Elaine]

And what's epic about this is with what we're doing right now, which is so cool and fun for me is I get to go be me, do what I love to do, help trainers build their business. I'm far better at that than I was even a trainer. And so, and I can just go. And then I have an, to come up behind me and actually create this. And now they're organized. So yeah, so all the trainers that hopefully that little fire under, they've got a worksheet that they can refer to that she's created to how to do that, how to do what Adam is saying, this is how you take that as a reminder. Hopefully if you, if you, some of that went over your head, here it is like here it is as a blueprint for you to go do that and then that, you know, she gives it to you.

[Justin Andrews]

We're doing another one. You and I are doing one on the seventh. But this is for trainers that aren't in our course. This is just any trainer. I have to be in our course. And we're going to teach them basically how to, how to maximize the new year, how to maximize that to become more effective. And there's problems with this that you need to solve. And as a trainer, one of the problems you need to solve with the new year is how do I get all these hyper motivated people to be able to do this for the rest of their life? Yeah, because a lot of people are going to come to you and they're gonna be interested. That's what happens every January. But you lose them all come, you know, March because, or April because you're just capitalizing on motivation. You're not figuring out, out how to solve that problem. That's what we're going to teach. It's trainerwebinar.com we'll be doing these for free for the year until we, I don't know, for as long as we can. Yeah, this will be a really, really fun.

[Elaine]

And we continue to just, I mean, because it's an area that we all love doing. It's like, I know that's what we're committed to, but I mean there's so much more. I mean you were on there this morning doing a video. I was there two days ago. I know it's, I'm, I'm super fired up, you know, for us in the business because it's a, it's a fun pivot or transition for us in, in the, in the business because it's something that, I mean, I really like doing. I really love helping coaches and trainers to your Point that you always make is that they're the ones that are going out and impacting. And if I can radically change or help one trainer, that's.

[Justin Andrews]

That's at least five to 10 other people.

[Elaine]

That's minimum. Right. Especially if I make them good. If I make them really good. And I think that's the motivation of, like, there's a whole point of why we're opening. And then we close enrollment. It's like, okay, so we can shut it down. We can focus on the ones, the trainers that are in there, there, help them, develop them, bring them up, then we can let more come in. And that's kind of the thought process of that versus just us trying to hustle and sell our course. It's like, let's bring this entire community up. And I'm really trying to encourage all of them to. To communicate and share what you're doing well, what's working for you? I just set out a challenge for all them how to use our guides. And I'm like, hey, I want you guys to tag me. I want to see them and allow me to come in and help you do that. That. And it just makes me realize, like, how. How many of these trainers, even if they're good trainers, are still trying to figure out the. The. The part of scaling an online digital business and how difficult and where to start. And so I'm excited to. To help and super excited.

[Justin Andrews]

Hey, you guys. It's the season. By the way of the gold juice for Organifi.

[Elaine]

Is it the. You mean the. The pumpkin spice latte?

[Justin Andrews]

Oh, I don't know if they have that one yet.

[Chuck]

Christmas tree blend.

[Justin Andrews]

I don't know if they have that. I love. Listen, this is the time of year when it's cold. Cold. You do the warm gold juice before you go to bed. You sleep so nice. You wake up. No inflammation.

[Elaine]

What flavors? Doug, pull it up right now. What are there.

[Justin Andrews]

What are the chocolate, then the traditional. It's actually. I eat the original. The original is my favorite one. It's got that nice warm flavor with the. And I do it with macadamia smooth.

[Elaine]

Yeah, I don't ever do it with that. I've got to try it with that. I'm normally. Almond milk is what's normally in our.

[Justin Andrews]

Macadamia nut milk has got a, like a better mouthfeel.

[Elaine]

Really?

[Justin Andrews]

It's got a nice.

[Elaine]

Doug. Doug does that too, right?

[Justin Andrews]

Doug's the one that introduced me to it.

[Elaine]

Oh, really?

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah. I never knew. I didn't even know it's macadamia nut milk until he. He's the one that showed me. It's got a nice mouth feel. It's got that nice, you know, kind of creaminess to it.

[Chuck]

Yeah. Just have an aversion to.

[Elaine]

Speaking of. Oh, what is it?

[Justin Andrews]

What's the flavor there?

[Doug]

So this is just the gold here.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah. So the traditional gold has got like a, like a cinnamony, it's. It's like a warm.

[Elaine]

It says gold chocolate. That's what it is.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah, it's like a warm flavor to it, but really like a nice sweet, mild flavor to it. It's got anti inflammatory compounds in there.

[Chuck]

Right.

[Justin Andrews]

It's got, you know, relaxing compounds like reishi mushroom and lemon balm in there.

[Elaine]

No, it's. It's. It's bomb.

[Justin Andrews]

So good.

[Elaine]

Speaking of Doug introducing stuff to you, I, you know, the, the audience, if they don't know yet, that's if who you want to listen to on this podcast. When it comes to watching movies or tv, it's not the two other, but it's Doug. If Doug has a recommendation for a movie or a show, you should go with, watch it. I cannot vouch for these guys on the things that they recommend on here, but Doug found another one.

[Chuck]

Plenty of DMS approve our organization, so I'm confident.

[Elaine]

You guys. Weirdos.

[Chuck]

There's weirdos out there too, man.

[Justin Andrews]

Little complexity, but. Yeah.

[Elaine]

Yeah, exactly.

[Chuck]

It's too hard to.

[Elaine]

The newest Doug just turned me on to. That's really good. Incredible cast too, in it. It's on prime or I mean Apple or Paramount, if you have Paramount plus you. You can get it or you can get it through Apple if you have Apple tv. But Landman, Is that what it was? Yeah, Landman. Billy Bob Thornton's in there. The guy from.

[Justin Andrews]

I saw a clip of that.

[Elaine]

Mad. The guy from Mad Men is in.

[Justin Andrews]

So I saw a clip of it and it's. It's so.

[Chuck]

That does look cool.

[Justin Andrews]

The messaging in it is so counter to what, like Mainstream has been promoting for so long. There was a clip where he was like talking to this, like, looked like he was talking to this environmental girl. And he's like, we're talking about wind and all that. Like, all the myths around it isn't going to get replaced anytime soon. Soon. That's. That's the same show, dude, I'm telling you, right?

[Chuck]

Showing what goes into the wind.

[Elaine]

I don't know if I have this weird bias right now or what, but I was just talking to Doug when we were walking yesterday, and I think I mentioned to you the other day, it's like I totally feel this shift in the narrative in the media or even in movies. In movies.

[Chuck]

Didn't Trump just win some. Some legal lawsuit with the ABC?

[Justin Andrews]

15 million.

[Chuck]

15 million.

[Elaine]

Yeah.

[Chuck]

And he has to do like a public apology.

[Justin Andrews]

Listen, media doesn't get give it. They're so inauthentic. They're just gonna go where the wind blows. It makes so frustrated. So yeah, we are noticing shift. Why? Because people are shifting, that's why.

[Elaine]

Yeah, yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

But anywhere people go, they're gonna go.

[Elaine]

It's interesting to see that. But I really like another thing that I saw on that show and I wanted. It's too early because I just started it. So I'm curious like why they showed that. But this again, I always like the messaging. Right. So what do we know with RFK talking about peptides and. And stuff like that. Right, right. So the show starts off such a weird thing that they put this in. I don't know how far you are if you figured out why they did that or not. But do you know that they. They. They open the show and there's just a scene of him injecting himself with testosterone B12 and NAD.

[Chuck]

No way.

[Elaine]

And it's just. And it's a very subtle. Like you see him jabbing himself and then the. And the screen barely tell. Like I caught it. Katrina had no idea what it was. I was like, oh, no, try to do that. I just saw B12. I saw NAD and I saw testosterone. Their own. And I'm like, how is that going to be relevant to the story? Because it's not.

[Justin Andrews]

Like maybe because they know who they're attracting.

[Elaine]

Well, so that's what I thought. How interesting is that? That we. That that's gonna.

[Justin Andrews]

He wears a cowboy hat.

[Elaine]

We know, we know. That's coming down the pipe with rfk. Right. And more and more people are being. Are going to be aware of what peptides and stuff are.

[Justin Andrews]

I got to tell you about the Pepsi, you guys. My. So my. I forgot to bring you guys some. Darn it. So my wife woke up the other morning, swollen gland, sore throat. I gave her thymus and alpha. Nice bolus of thymus Alpha. I gave her two days in a row. Gone. She's fine. I started having a little bit of sore. And usually if I feel it, I'm gonna get sick. Thymus and alpha gone. Wow, that stuff is remarkable. If you start to get.

[Elaine]

You just reminded me. I want to make sure it keeps.

[Justin Andrews]

And you're. That's pretty crazy.

[Elaine]

It's thymosin alpha cell because it's beta. I have that.

[Justin Andrews]

Beta is for the. The to speed up recovery of like muscle fibers and stuff like that. Alpha is immune system. It matures killer T cells. It gets your immune system to be ready to attack, you know, pathogens and viruses and stuff like that. Fact for people who love conspiracy theory. Not a conspiracy theory. It's true. When Covid was happening, researchers and scientists and doctors were showing that thymos and alpha was helping people from going into like severe effects. And then the, I don't know what agency made it so you couldn't get thymos and alpha anymore for that little short period of time.

[Chuck]

Sure.

[Justin Andrews]

Weird.

[Chuck]

Yeah, weird. Anyway, any helpful treatment was like off limits.

[Justin Andrews]

Yep. Butcherbox delivers grass fed meat, crate free pork wild caught fish to your door for incredible prices. If you like protein and you like your health, you gotta go with Butcherbox. Go check them out. Go to butcherbox.com mindpiece by the way, new users will get your choice between chicken breast, ground beef or salmon included in every box for free for an entire year plus $20 off. Again, it's butcherbox.com mindpump all right, back to the show. All right, these callers are brought to you by our webinar series. This is for trainers and coaches where we help you out on how to build your business. The next one is January 7th. It's training the trainers on how to leverage the new year. All you gotta do is sign [e-mail] all right, take it away, Doug.

[Doug]

Our first caller is Elaine from Nebraska.

[Justin Andrews]

Elaine.

[Elaine]

Hi, Elaine, how are you?

[Chuck]

Hi, good morning.

[Sal DiStefano]

How are you guys?

[Elaine]

Good.

[Sal DiStefano]

Thank you so much for having me on.

[Justin Andrews]

You got it. How can we help you?

[Sal DiStefano]

I'm just gonna read straight from my question. So I'm 26 years old and have been lifting consistently for about 5 years, but only started following BAPS programs roughly 2 years ago. My goal is to build an aesthetically pleasing physique while getting stronger. However, I've noticed a frustrating trend in my training. While I seem to get stronger during the individual phases of a program, my long term progress feels stagnant and I'm not lifting any heftier than I was a few years ago. To give you some examples, in 2021 I could squat 135 pounds for 5 reps. In 2023 it was 110 pounds and now it's about 105 pounds. My deadlift has also seen a similar regression from 135 pounds in 2023 to 115 pounds here at the end of 2024. I know that one contributing factor to this is that over the years I've gotten a lot more diligent with my form which resulted in taking some weight off the bar. Another contributing factor is that I've had several setbacks due to experiencing lower back pain from squatting. Thankfully, I found an amazing trainer who helped me address my squat form and my lower back pain completely went away and hasn't come back since. However, just a few weeks ago, after squatting pain free for many months, my left knee started hurting during squats. This really disappointed me because I've been focusing on mobility and form and thought I was doing everything right. I was also just about to start the 5x5 phase in muscle Mommy and was super excited to start pushing the weight on my squat again to see if I'm making any progress. But now I feel like I have to go back to the drawing board. I am taking steps to address my knee pain. I went back to my trainer and she gave me several exercises and mobility moves to replace squats with for the next couple of weeks. She also recommended that I go see a pelvic floor physio based on what she was seeing with my mobility and some other symptoms we discussed. That sort of surprised me because I've never had children, but I decided to give it a shot. The appointment with the pelvic floor physio went well. I learned about some tightness I have in muscles internally that I'll spare your listeners the details of as well as externally. She thinks my left adductor is tight which might explain some other pain and tightness I have in sort of like my left upper groin and hip flexor area. And she also gave me some mobility exercises and I have a follow up appointment this week. Despite these setbacks, I have had some great pain free bouts of lifting over the last couple of years, which is why I can't shake the feeling that I should be much stronger than I am now. I'm consistent and dedicated in the gym so it's disheartening to feel like I'm spinning my wheels. What could I be doing wrong? Is this just part of the process or are there changes I should make to finally see real progress in my strength and physique?

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah, great question. I know how challenging it could be when you're really consistent to see yourself plateauing and definitely going backward, especially on on strength. If when I hear someone your age consistent, you know, with training consistently, typically the issues are over training, not Eating enough and maybe sleep issues, one of those three or all three combined. So if so now overtrain. Let's, let's talk about that for a second. Overtraining can happen acutely or it can take time to build cumulatively to where you're responding really well. But because you're pushing the volume for so long, so consistently, not taking really breaks in volume that are substantial, then what ends up happening is you start spinning your wheels in the dirt. So if your Maps programming is like maps aesthetic, maps split, you know, you're going to strong, you're going to like all these kind of higher volume style programs back to back to back without doing a big back off where you take time off or you do something like, like maybe symmetry or especially something like Maps 15. Then what, what can happen over time is you start to kind of hit that wall and if you're real consistent, you just keep bouncing off that wall. So that might be the issue. And then calories is the other one. A lot of times when I see young women like you, you obviously fit and consistent. How often do you go into bulk versus a cut? And is that something you're trying to do consistently or is it more like, okay, I don't want to gain body fat, meanwhile I'm trying to get stronger type of deal. Does any of this resonate with you?

[Sal DiStefano]

To be honest, not really. I've tried to be really cognizant of over training and I have, I do feel like I have enough like natural deload weeks just with like vacations I followed up. The first time I ran anabolic, I did symmetry. And then after like earlier this year, I wasn't really following a maps program because I was just following some like, like regressional exercise kind of programming with my trainer to fix the lower back pain. But I've never really lifted more than like three days a week for the last couple years. So that's been good. Last year or. Yeah, like I feel like every winter I try to do a bulk. I'm kind of pushing the calories right now, so I'm eating around 2200. But the scale hasn't been moving. So I was thinking about bumping that up too.

[Elaine]

Yeah, I saw that ahead on the, I think Doug scrolled down a little bit and I saw that you were in a bulk but you haven't seen any movement on the scale. Probably means that you can afford to push the calories and I definitely would go that direction. If you don't think it's an over training thing, then there's a good chance that it's a, it's an under eating thing.

[Justin Andrews]

What about strength in the other areas? So you've had some back pain, so I'm assuming, you know, squat, deadlift, you'll probably see some issues. Juice, are you seeing any changes in other exercises? Overhead presses, bench presses, rows, that kind of stuff?

[Sal DiStefano]

Upper body strength? I mean like I'm in, I just finished phase two of Muscle Mommy. And like throughout the individual two phases that I've just done, like I was getting stronger every single week with all the upper body lifts.

[Elaine]

Yeah.

[Sal DiStefano]

And then the lower body, I've just kind of had some.

[Elaine]

Okay, well that speaks more to what's going on with your, what's going on with your hip flexors.

[Justin Andrews]

That's right. Yeah, that's right. And the fact that you went to see. I'm so glad you brought up pelvic floor specialists because a lot of times women think, oh, that only can happen when you have children. No, that happens. That, that kind of dysfunction can happen for lots of different reasons. Sometimes mysterious, especially if you're getting kind of these repeated back type pain. So it sounds to me like there's this muscle dysfunction then because if you're getting stronger in other lifts but you're stagnant going backwards in specific types of lifts, especially like deadlift and squat, and it's, it's kind of pointing to that lumbo pelvic hip area then. Yeah, that, that's probably the issue.

[Elaine]

Mechanical thing, Strength loss area. I mean that's, it's, it's, it's actually very clear now. If you would have told us that you're not seeing any gains anywhere anywhere else, then it, we're still trying to kind of get to the bottom of this. It could be still some of the things we're talking about, but if you're seeing gains in everywhere else, then you're eating enough, then you're, you're, you're doing what you need to do nutritionally, rest, recovery wise. Because if you weren't in those areas, you would, you wouldn't be seeing it there at all. It point, it highlights that there's something going on mechanically with, with the squat and the deadlift area. In this case your hip flexor.

[Justin Andrews]

Yep.

[Sal DiStefano]

I was gonna ask if you thought it was worth it for me to keep seeing the pelvic floor physio, but it sounds like yes, okay.

[Justin Andrews]

No, for sure. The, the big, the big. Like for most people, I'd say most, the majority like Symmetry Prime Pro would solve the issue. But when you get these kind of mysterious, like I did, I'm doing unilateral work. I've done correctional exercise, traditional correction, and I still, something's not right. I'm not getting stronger. I keep kind of getting the same kind of pain either in this SI joint, which is kind of lower back to the side, or sometimes it travels down the leg like you said, to the knee. It could very well be core stability. Yes, deep core stability, which refers to the pelvic floor area. And there's a lot of reasons why that can happen, one of which being being pregnant, having a child. But that's not the only reason. There's lots of different reasons why you could have some dysfunction there.

[Sal DiStefano]

Okay, so while I continue doing these exercises and mobility drills that the pelvic floor physio gives me, should I continue on to the five by five phase of Muscle Mommy, but just do what she's telling me for squats and deadlifts instead, or should I kind of put a hold on following that program for now?

[Justin Andrews]

If you're working with a correctional exercise specialist who's working with you individually, do what they tell.

[Chuck]

I would do. Yeah. What she's having you go through and kind of, yeah, just put it on. You can come back to it. But I, I wouldn't want to like overdo anything that she's kind of teaching.

[Elaine]

Well, most likely she's going to pull out all the lower body stuff and you're going to be doing most mostly stuff that she has you doing, which that's what you don't want to do is, is run Muscle Mommy the way it's laid out and then also be piling that on. Assuming she knows what you're doing, she'll probably tell you, eliminate squats and deadlifts out of there. This is what we're gonna be working on. But all the rest of this stuff is fine. Because if you're fine nutritionally, recovery wise, upper body wise, then I would stay the course with Muscle Mommy. Just pull out the lower body movements.

[Justin Andrews]

And don't worry about losing gains because you won't. You'll maintain them.

[Chuck]

You'll come back fierce.

[Justin Andrews]

It's very easy to maintain em now here, by the way. Here's why, Elaine, if they recommend, because a lot of correctional exercise specialists will do this. Not always, but most of the time they'll say, okay, stop doing these other movements while we work on changing movement patterns. The reason being is when you go back to your deadlifts and squat, your, your body is so good at moving A particular way which in this particular way it's not ideal that you'll continue to strengthen the bad pattern which will override the correctional exercise. So it's like trying to learn how to swing a golf club differently, but you're practicing your old way more than the new way. So it's like, you know, good luck. Right. So if they recommend stopping certain exercises, just go ahead and follow along and you'll get, you'll, you'll see tremendous improvements a relatively short period of time if.

[Chuck]

You get much further, if you do it.

[Justin Andrews]

That's right.

[Sal DiStefano]

Is it worth it to continue trying to be in a caloric surplus or not really?

[Elaine]

Yeah, yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

Oh no. 100% that. That'll make all. So remember, correctional exercise is still strength building and muscle building. It's just, it's just targeted to change recruitment patterns and to make you move better. But you still. You. The reason why a correctional exercise gets you to move better is you're getting stronger in a specific way and a surplus will only help that.

[Sal DiStefano]

Okay, I think that answers my question. Thank you guys.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah, you got it.

[Elaine]

Would love a follow up. Let us know. Elaine, how, please, please.

[Sal DiStefano]

Yeah, absolutely. Have a good rest of your day.

[Justin Andrews]

Thank you. You too too, you too.

[Sal DiStefano]

Bye.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah, that's. I'm so glad she said that. So you could get pelvic floor issues from trauma, either injury or other types of trauma. It could also be emotional trauma because that area is a vulnerable area for us, especially for women. And if they go through a stressful period as a kid, you can change recruitment patterns there just from something like that. I worked with a woman like that and she didn't have kids, kids and she had to go see a specialist. And when she did, it helped, but it did bring up a lot of emotional stuff.

[Elaine]

Great awareness for her.

[Justin Andrews]

Totally. At her age.

[Chuck]

Go seek that out. Was pretty.

[Justin Andrews]

Her trainer recommended it.

[Elaine]

Yeah.

[Chuck]

Yeah. Good training on him.

[Justin Andrews]

Good trainer.

[Elaine]

Good trainer for sure. Definitely worth the investment too for something like this, you know. And the most important part of the conversation was when she let us. Was able to tell us that she was getting stronger everywhere else.

[Justin Andrews]

That's right.

[Elaine]

Because had she not been getting strong there?

[Justin Andrews]

No. Then it was, it was enough.

[Elaine]

Yeah. Then it could have been some of the most common areas that you said. But. But you're not going to get stronger in all those other areas and also be under eating calories or overtraining. You're going to see that across the board. So obviously something mechanically is happening in the lower body and so definitely good.

[Doug]

Investment Our next caller is Lindsay from Canada.

[Justin Andrews]

Hi, Lindsay.

[Elaine]

Hi.

[Justin Andrews]

Let me help you.

[Elaine]

Hi guys, how you doing?

[Adam Schafer]

How are you?

[Elaine]

Good, good, good.

[Justin Andrews]

So what's happening?

[Adam Schafer]

So I'm a 37 year old woman that's been on a health journey for over a decade. I'm five'five currently 140 pounds. I've been consistently weight training for six years but have been active most of my life. I used to do a lot of yoga, fitness classes, cardio, and then about seven years ago I started listening to you guys and I started doing my weight training journey and I've been consistently in the gym lifting weights for about the past six, seven years. Now, recently, my question is. Now, recently I have noticed that my sleep has been really off. I go to bed around 9 or 10 every night, consistently, even on the weekends. And ideally I would get up around 6am however, I've been waking up at 4am with the inability to fall back to sleep. My mind will start going and as hard as I try to shut it off with, with either deep breathing meditation, I just can't seem to quiet it down a little more background. I lift, I was saying three to four days per week, about an hour each each of those days. I walk every day, averaging 10,000 steps, I would say. My stress level is low to moderate and my diet is pretty dialed in. I eat 90% whole natural unprocessed foods, get close to 120 grams of protein daily from meat sources, and I think I average around 2000 calories per day. I have tried tracking, I don't track consistently, but that's the average that I believe I get. I work a 9 to 5 desk job and also have a side gig as a certified holistic nutritionist, which I do on the evenings and weekends, but only a couple hours per week, so I'm not overwhelmed. I've recently been working with a naturopathic doctor and have had blood work done with hormones included and she doesn't see any issues. She thinks that everything is super healthy, looks really good. I'm at a loss as to why this is happening to me and I was hoping that I could hear your thoughts.

[Justin Andrews]

Great, great question. Okay, so typically when you see. First off, let me ask you this before I go on. Do you fall asleep quickly in bed when you go to bed?

[Adam Schafer]

I do now. I used to have problems years ago, but lately I feel like within 20 minutes.

[Justin Andrews]

Okay, and you feel rested when you wake up or are you feeling the effects of waking up at 4? Like I feel t. I can, I.

[Adam Schafer]

Can Jump out of bed like.

[Justin Andrews]

No, what I mean, what I mean is for the rest of the day, are you noticing low energy from lack of sleep or is this affecting you in any way?

[Elaine]

You're probably good.

[Adam Schafer]

On the days that I've been waking up at 4, yes, I have been feeling affected. I don't nap, I've never been able to nap. But I do feel kind of like that brain fog, that lethargy, that sort of like burning in the eyes when I, I do have those days that I wake up at 4am and yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

Are you noticing any increases in or changes in anxiety? You said racing thoughts. Are you noticing a little anxiety?

[Adam Schafer]

I guess so. It's funny, when I wrote this question I didn't really think about this until today. But recently there's been some financial issues going on. So maybe that's got something to do with it. But besides that, like not really any changes.

[Justin Andrews]

Here's why I'm asking because I mean I know you gave us a great detailed email like it, you know, because typically sleep issues when they first start, they can be too much stress and it can be too much exercise over training, lifestyle factors. Too much caffeine could be the thing. But if you're like, you know, nothing's really changed. I'm kind of doing what I've always done. I don't feel over trained, I don't feel burnt out. But now I'm kind of waking up. I'm also noticing more anxiety than normal type of deal. And because of your age now I know you did your hormone panel but recently we've had more hormone specialists come on which tend to be on the cutting edge and they're specialists that work with women and they all point to perimenopause starting earlier than a lot of people realize and it's typically later 30s with women. And the symptom that women tend to get this is based off what they say. So this is not my area expertise but these are the doctors that we've had on the show. We just recently interviewed Dr. Lauren. That episode hasn't even aired yet. But they say some of the first symptoms that they'll notice is that they'll, they're sleep and it's from a drop in progesterone. So that may be something I would look at aside from all of the. That would tend to be the first things I would look at which are are you overtrained, are you having caffeine too late in the day or more caffeine than normal? You know, those are the things I look at now supplement wise, you could try Ashwagandha before bed. Sometimes that helps with what you're noticing, which is waking up suddenly earlier in the morning. But you could ask your doctor and say, you know, could I try like a sublingual progesterone, you know, at night and see if that helps. And sometimes it does. And I'm starting to become convinced that this is more often or more common than I had realized before just from having the experts on the show. And you're right. Yeah. So unless again, you're overtrained. So let's get to that for a second. Let's talk about your workouts. What do your workouts look like right now? It says three to four days a week, but what kind of workouts are they?

[Adam Schafer]

So right now I'm actually cycling through my second cycle of Muscle Mommy. And then my husband just bought Map Synabolic, so I was looking at starting that soon too. I know that the program tells you, you know, three days a week and it's kind of split up Monday, Wednesday, Friday or whatnot. I do have a bit of a problem with not being at the gym constantly. I do like to be there Monday through Friday. So I will go, I'll try not to overdo it. But on the days that I'm supposed to be doing my trigger sessions, I'll usually do like a walk or do like some sprints or something like that for 20, 30 minutes. And then I'll do my trigger session, maybe do some abs, things like that. So I feel like I know what you're gonna say, but yeah, it's not that bad. I feel like I'm not overdoing it.

[Justin Andrews]

It doesn't seem that bad. But I. But here's an easy way to test it. Do you have maps 15?

[Adam Schafer]

No.

[Justin Andrews]

Okay, here's an easy way to test it. And you'll. This will give the. This will let you know right away if that's the problem. I'll send you Maps 15. Do the In Maps 15, there's a free weight version of it. Do that one advanced, you'll be at the gym five, six days a week with it. Okay. But it's a short workout. It's like 20 minutes if you follow that program and by the second or third week your sleep has improved. You were overdoing it.

[Elaine]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

Now that doesn't mean you're always going to overdo it following Maps Mommy. It just means you probably need to go through a couple cycles of something like Mass 15 before going back to Muscle Mommy.

[Elaine]

Also, keep in mind, because you mentioned the potential stress that just of recent stuff, financially, that counts. Right. So maybe in the context of everything running smooth for you, it's not over training. It's not over training. But with that going on and the sleep thing and then that, all of that is resulting in the bit of over training cycle. So. Yeah, and that. That's the great part about the Maps 15 thing, is this is something you could literally test in two weeks. Two weeks. But the key is when you do it, you follow it to a T. Don't go do a bunch of other stuff. You can walk. So if you need to be at the gym for an hour, I'm okay with that. So you can. Walking on the treadmill's fine. Mobility stuff is fine.

[Justin Andrews]

But not workout walking.

[Elaine]

Yeah, but yeah, not hill sprints. You mentioned sprinting. Not StairMaster. It's walking on the treadmill leisurely. Should be able to check emails at the same time. Okay. That type of walking with maps 15 laid out the way it is, just follow it for two weeks. You should know if it was over training, you'll notice a difference.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah. And again, just to back up with what Adam's saying, here's what fitness fanatics or people who are really consistent tend to do. We tend to train ourselves not with the ideal amount of volume, but what we can tolerate. And so we're always kind of pushing it. We're always pushing it. Always pushing it. And then a life event comes up and are. Because we're always pushing it, that life event pushes us over. And so now what we've always done is too much. So it could be. And it could be like, this is so true for me, Lindsay. Like, I'm always pushing it. So if I have a little extra stress in my life, suddenly I'm over training, whereas before I wasn't. So. And you'll. But again, you'll know within two or three weeks of following Mass 15 if that was a problem. Literally by. By week two or three, if you're sleeping all the way through, like, okay, okay, that's what it was. But if it doesn't go away, then I would look to. To other. Other areas.

[Adam Schafer]

Okay, got it, Got it. Yeah. I really appreciate that. I totally. You guys have changed my way of thinking when it comes to, like, I used to think, you know, I have to be sore to feel like I did enough. And I've had to change my way of thinking for sure. It's such a. Such a mind shift.

[Justin Andrews]

All right, we'll send that to you okay. If you don't have it, we'll send you master change.

[Adam Schafer]

I really appreciate that.

[Justin Andrews]

You got it. Thank you. Awesome. Yeah, Good point to bring up Adam 100%. Because. Because it's like, what we tend to do, Right. We're good so long as everything's cool.

[Elaine]

Yeah. And then just. And I think we just. We don't. We don't look at them like the same. They are different stresses, but we don't count them like they're the same.

[Chuck]

Same bucket, though.

[Elaine]

Yeah, it is. It's the same. It's the same bucket. And in. In the context of everything going smooth, truth. Maybe that's not over training, which is why I know, too, like, some people, like, like, I don't understand. That's one of your guys's programs. How could you. How could you have them over training? Well, I mean, if she's got other stuff going on, then that could even be over training for.

[Justin Andrews]

If she's never taken time off.

[Elaine]

Yes. Yeah. Especially when she starts to hit, too. She has these tendencies of doing other stuff on top of it, too. So it's just like. And you hear her background of, like, the group classes, the sprints, the things like that.

[Chuck]

It's like she's gonna tell us her best day.

[Elaine]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

But no, back to the hormone stuff. You know, I'm. I'm more and more convinced that not. I don't think that's the majority of people in their late 30s, but if you're like, you know, a woman and you're 38, 7, 38, 39, and you're just. You just can't figure this out, and you're doing everything right and you're dropping volume and you're. And it's like, okay, this is very strange. I'm anxious for no reason. I feel like then you. Progesterone sometimes seems to be a solution, and I'm more and more convinced that that's more common than I thought before.

[Doug]

Our next caller is Chuck from Illinois.

[Justin Andrews]

What's up, Chuck?

[Elaine]

What's going on, Chuck?

[Chuck]

Chuck.

[Elaine]

Hey, guys.

[Amelia]

Thanks for doing this. Happy holidays.

[Elaine]

You too.

[Justin Andrews]

Same.

[Amelia]

So I'll just read my question and then listen to what you guys have to say. I'm a 41 year old male. About 10, 15 years ago, I started to get kind of out of shape, and I did P90X and I got into decent shape and maintained it for a while until I herniated my L1S5 disc doing insanity. Then I started. I found a yoga by a former professional wrestler that I kind of started doing that and then I was pretty good for a couple of years until August of 2019. I started to really put on weight and get heavy again. I found your podcast at the beginning of COVID in 2020. After listening to you guys, I decided to get my testosterone checked. And it was about 1:50. I tried eating better and like weightlifting and stuff like that. But when I got retested a couple months later, it was 120. My doctors found that my pituitary gland was not secreting lh, which wasn't stimulating the testicles to produce testosterone. So since then I tried the cream for a little bit, but it didn't really do anything. So I've been injecting with TRT since 2022. And I have a little update from my question since I talked to my doctor yesterday. But since then I've been working out pretty regularly. I also have IDSD, which I was diagnosed with about 15, 20 years ago. And then through listening to you guys and listening to some of the stuff Sal went through, I saw a functional doctor and I had sibo. So I took some medication and I did elimination diets and stuff like that. They thought I had celiac, but I don't. They think I just have a gluten intolerance. So since around this time last year, I'm like 80 gluten free. I try to be gluten free during the week and on the weekends. I just kind of live my life, but I try not to go overboard. Since being on TRT about two years ago, I've run Anabolic Performance. Anabolic and then I just finished performance maybe three or four weeks ago. Since then I've just been doing anabolic style workouts with the exception of I got the flu last week, so I apologize if I start coughing and stuff. I just finished a cough drop. I don't want it. So I'm feeling a little better. But as of now, being on TRT for two years, I'm 41 years old. I weigh 280. I think I've gained 10 pounds. There was a point in the last year where my strengths definitely went up in like bench squatting and deadlifting. And that's when I went from eating 190 to 210 grams of protein a day. I noticed that strength gain. But since then I feel like I've kind of slacked a little and it's gone down and I'm not able to do do the same on bench or deadlifting. I bought symmetry. I haven't tried it. Yet because I was waiting until January, went to avoid all of the rush at the gym and all the New Year's people. So I know you guys say this is like a long game, but I'm at two years and I just feel like I'm getting a little frustrated because I'm not seeing the results I should. I feel like during that time while I have seen strength games, my gut has not gone down. I feel like for being on trt, I'm not getting the gains. Maybe I should be. And like I said, I feel like in the last couple months my strength has gone down. Now I did just have my levels checked. And this is the update that wasn't in the original question is that my high was only about 4:38. So my doctor told me as of tomorrow to start injecting. So he upped my testosterone a little. So I'm hoping that might help a little. The other thing is my doctors have talked to me about GLP1s but because of my history with IBS and I mean the going gluten free and placebo has helped, I still go to the bathroom quite a number of times a day. It's just I don't have diarrhea as much. But my main concern about GLPN ones is taking a step back with the stomach issues and like diarrhea getting worse and stuff like that again. So I'm a little hesitant about going down that road unless I, you know, absolutely have to. That's like my last, you know, last thing I would try. So I'm just curious, like, should I maybe up my protein?

[Elaine]

Yes, that's with the chuck. The, the thing that jumps out at me right away is you. One, you noticed a difference when you went from 190 to 210. You noticed you started to get a little bit stronger just from consciously going after a little bit more protein. And for you, that's on the, the lower. Okay, it's not bad, but it's on the lower end. The other thing that jumps out on me, you know, you make the comment that on the weekends you kind of live your life. I'm guessing you also probably don't diligently track your protein on the weekends too, if you just kind of let loose. And so no, I, I, I, I.

[Amelia]

Usually try to on the weekends.

[Elaine]

Okay. Okay. So. And protein is one of those things that needs to be consistent daily. Like if it's not an average of the week, it's if you missed your protein target for that day, you missed it. There's no making up. The next day it's, you're behind, you're behind the eight ball. And so again you saw a benefit by going from 190, 210. You, you say it's kind of hard to hit that. I think you targeting 240 in protein would be a good, good target for you. And I bet if you did that consistently, never didn't miss for three weeks in a row, you'd see a significant change in the strength, especially pairing that with the increase in testosterone. I would go that direction first before I hopped on the GLP1.

[Justin Andrews]

There's a. Okay, so first get the testosterone fixed. That's still low. Looks like they're moving you up slowly. I'm assuming you're working with a kind of an old school doc, so you probably want to get it higher. 410 is still on the low end for most people. Fix that.

[Amelia]

Yeah, my urologist told me I was injecting 0.5 and he told me as of tomorrow to enjoy inject 0.75.

[Justin Andrews]

That's like this, like he's moving you up super slow. But that's fine. You know, I'm not gonna counter your doctor, but if you don't feel a difference, you know, after a month or whatever, you test it again, they'll probably move you up even higher there. So I would get that looked at first. Addressing the GLP1 with IBD, IBSD. GLP1's slow gastric emptying, they don't speed gastric emptying up. So with somebody like you, it might actually help. It might actually help slow down the emptying process, which may help your symptom. There's also anecdotally, and they're doing studies right now on GLP1s, but anecdotally may help with autoimmune type type issues. Now I'm gonna give you my anecdote with GLP1. I microdose the GLP1 and it made a tremendous benefit to my gut health. And I think it's because I have some autoimmune stuff that maybe isn't bad enough to measure, but it definitely affects my gut and the GLP1 has been instrumental in helping that I would also continue to get tested. So maybe test for parasites next that can cause sibo. So you could have reoccurring SIBO because there's an untreated parasite. So I'd look at that and then finally, this is the best, this is the biggest piece of advice I'm going to give you. There's a few things you've said in this conversation that lead me to strongly believe that you would work. It would be very beneficial for you to hire a coach. What you said about what you do on the weekends, the way you're talking about your progress and you're referring to yourself and. And those types of things, I think a coach would benefit you tremendously because of the way that you're looking at. I'm 80% gluten free, for example. I like to live my life on the weekends. I know this is a short call, but my question to you is how's your life going? Living your life on the weekends doesn't sound so good. So what we need to do is work on the relationship with food because the 20% on the weekend isn't actually serving you. But there is something else underlying. There's where you feel restricted during the week. So now the weekend is like living my life that will never resolve itself if the way you're viewing eating in a way that's not causing issues for you. And again, if I was coaching you, this wouldn't be a conversation that we'd have just one time. I'd work through this process. I think working with a coach can be very beneficial. I do think this is dietary. I think a lot of what you're talking about has to do with your diet. It and I think working with a coach is going to help that tremendously. If you have the expendable income, that's going to be massive benefit to even an online coach. Have someone work with you on a regular basis with diet, with tracking and go through that process. The workouts are fine. I think you're doing okay with the workouts. I wouldn't want you to go higher volume than what you're doing. I think that's okay. But I think working with a coach is going to be your best bet for sure.

[Amelia]

And sorry, I.

[Elaine]

Should I.

[Amelia]

When I say like live my life, I don't mean like I go out and go crazy on the weekends. It's like if I'm out with friends and they want to have pizza, you know, sometimes I'll ask for gluten free, sometimes I'll just be like, whatever. I'm also an actor and stuff like that. So I don't like to eat a lot before I perform because it could cause me to get a little gassy. So on like times like that is when I might miss some of my protein.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah. You know, when you go back, if you can go back to your functional medicine practitioner, I would get retested for SIBO and then get tested for parasites. Parasites are harder to find sometimes, but if you're getting reoccurring gut issues so you could solve sibo, get rid of the bacterial overgrowth, but the parasite will cause it to come back. And so you're like, oh, I'm better. And then it starts to come back again, and then I'm better, and then it starts to come back again. This is quite common with an untreated parasite, which. Which is relatively common. I mean, a good 15, 20 of people have an untreated parasite. Especially if you eat a lot of sushi, you'll see this in individuals.

[Elaine]

This is also why I do.

[Amelia]

Yeah.

[Elaine]

This is also why I think, to Sal's point about the coach being such a valuable investment is there's a. There's a lot of different possibilities that could be going on, troubleshooting. And so if you were a client of mine, I'd be like, all right, let's go test the protein theory that I have right now. This is what I want you to do. I'd make you diligently do it for three weeks and even on the weekends, everything. I just want you to. Just, for three weeks, give me this. And then let's measure, let's track, let's see what happens. And then. Okay, that didn't do anything. Let's go to the next. You know, so we would. We would tease out one at a time, and together we would attack these things to get to the root. The root cause of what's going on. That's why I think this would be so valuable. It could be a handful of things, or it could be the combination of all of them.

[Justin Andrews]

Now, you're based in the US you could also try working with our [e-mail]. they're more aggressive with hormone therapy. They're not. So I guess, I don't know, for lack of a better term, afraid or conservative of start. You know, they'll typically start a guy off at 200mg of testosterone a week. I think you probably started at close to 100 or less.

[Amelia]

So I think originally my levels jump up to, like, 1100. My doctor thought that I shouldn't maintain that for too long. It was too high.

[Elaine]

Yeah, that's. That's the difference.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah. They'll base it off of symptoms and not just your labs, but. But again, you can talk with them, send them your current blood work, see what their opinion is. They also work with GLP1s and they're they also do microdosing of GLP1s. Some doctors don't. They'll start you right out the gates on kind of an aggressive dose, which some people don't feel so good on. You know, again, just another route to look at chat. But a coach, I think, would be very helpful for you through this process. And they'll just. Each step of the way, they'll be able to coach you even with your workouts. I think that'll be very beneficial just based off this conversation.

[Amelia]

Okay, sounds good.

[Justin Andrews]

You know what we'll do, Doug? Maybe we'll recommend some people that he could work with. Email him some of our. Our people. He can get on the phone.

[Elaine]

Yeah, have Kyle. Have Kyle reach out.

[Justin Andrews]

Okay. We have some coaches that we really like.

[Chuck]

Yeah, get someone to give you a call.

[Elaine]

Call.

[Amelia]

Oh, awesome.

[Elaine]

Thank you, guys.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah, yeah, you got it, Chuck. And then your programming is anabolic and look like you did Symmetry performance.

[Amelia]

I just bought Symmetry. I was going to wait until January to start that.

[Justin Andrews]

Okay.

[Elaine]

Yeah. I like your rotation.

[Justin Andrews]

I like your rotation.

[Elaine]

I like your rotation of programs.

[Justin Andrews]

Since we're having one of our coaches call you, I'll let them make a recommendation. We'll take care of you.

[Chuck]

Yeah.

[Elaine]

Okay. Sounds good.

[Justin Andrews]

All right, Chuck, you got it, Chuck.

[Chuck]

You got this, dude.

[Elaine]

All right.

[Amelia]

Appreciate it, guys.

[Elaine]

Thank you.

[Justin Andrews]

Thank you. You. The way. The way he was talking.

[Elaine]

I know, I know. You're going.

[Justin Andrews]

You know, exactly.

[Elaine]

Well, this is such an example. We've talked about this off air. Share this on air. Like, one of the most difficult things about taking live callers is that it's narrow window. Yeah. We have a very small window to like, try and get to what possibly. And it's. And you just would not do that in person. Like, I would sense the energy from the person. Person that's responding to the way I'm saying things and go like, oh, that's a little sensitive. I'm not going to go that hard right now. I need to. I need to ease my way into that conversation. We don't have the time to ease our way in here. So it's just like, it's probably this band aid and a lot of times that puts a wall up on a client. And so it's a. It's a 50, 50 shot. He'll take what we say. And then actually there were a lot of.

[Justin Andrews]

For people listening who aren't trainers, who haven't trained for people for a long time, because I know you guys heard it. There were like three or four red flags.

[Elaine]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

Defense Mechanisms the way he was talking about diet and exercise and my results and this. I don't know what's happening and there are a lot of red flags and, and, and really the only way to go through those would be to work with somebody through this process.

[Elaine]

I, I said what I said because he wrote it. He wrote up on a stage that it's very hard for him to hit his protein.

[Justin Andrews]

No, you're right.

[Chuck]

And that's a huge thing to achieve.

[Elaine]

And then, and then, and then admitting to me that you also have mis. Missed on the, the, you know, you're 80%, you know, accurate on your, on your weekends or whatever like that. So there's a, there's another like just gonna feel. And then two, you've also noticed when you went from. Normally when a client does a little subtle bump on their protein, it's a, it's a glaring sign that they consistently under eat.

[Justin Andrews]

That's right.

[Elaine]

Because this is by the way, anybody who followed the journey that I did the, the three months I wasn't even worried about my total protein at first because I knew I was so low.

[Justin Andrews]

This is going up.

[Elaine]

Just by going up I would see positive benefit benefits. That is why I did that is because I'm like, I don't even need to hit my 220 yet because I know I'm so low that if I bump 30 grams of protein a day I'm going to see positive benefits.

[Justin Andrews]

Right.

[Elaine]

And that's.

[Chuck]

So in other words, naturally the calories amount is going to go down because it's satiating effect.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah. And he didn't go from a consistent 190 to 210, which is what he said. He went from what he thinks he's always at 190 to 210, which means he just bumped his protein because you wouldn't see. Oh my gosh. Those straight huge strength gains from 20 grams of protein. Protein.

[Elaine]

Right.

[Justin Andrews]

Not. Probably not. It's probably right. You were so low.

[Elaine]

Yeah.

[Chuck]

Somebody needs to work with him to get in there.

[Justin Andrews]

100.

[Elaine]

Well and the GLP one thing to Sal's point I think is awesome and potential for him. Problem is, would be a great option if you already struggle hitting protein intake and then you get on a GLP1, he might lose £30, but he'll do it in a way where he ends up losing as much muscle as he does fat and then he'll be in the situation where he's like I need a reverse diet out. And then he's, he'll be right back to the same situation of I've got to hit that protein intake without a coach.

[Chuck]

Not a good option.

[Doug]

Our next caller is Amelia from Colorado.

[Elaine]

Amelia, how you doing?

[Justin Andrews]

How can we help you?

[Chuck]

Hello. Hello.

[H]

Hi. So I started lifting three years ago after gaining about 25 pounds from trash college food. I did an aggressive cut, lifting three hours a day, 30 minutes of cardio a day, and then on top of dancing five days a week. I began tracking and restricting food, but I didn't really know portion sizes so my tracking was off. But I ended up building muscle and leaning out. Over the summer of 2023, I began to measure my food and get more detailed and tracking and I leaned out even more and I was eating around 2,000 calories, sometimes less if I ate over the day before and getting 200 grams of protein. And then when school started back up, I kept the same training. Along with adding dancing back in and restricting my calories, calories, I got to 120 pounds and 9 to 10% body fat according to this in body testing thing, which I'm not sure how accurate it is, but I developed hypothyroidism, adrenal fatigue, loss of period. I hit a plateau with my lifts even going backwards now. So since about October 2023, I've scaled down. I ran booty by Brett maps muscle, mommy map symmetry. I'm currently running an upper lower split just because I have more time right now and the program I'm running is more glute focused, which that is one of my goals, like every girl and their mom. And I still do like low intensity cardio, like walking on the treadmill twice a week for stamina because dance, that's important. So I'm 21, 5 7, 125 pounds and according to a scale 23 body fat, I'm eating around 3,000 calories and 300 grams of protein currently sometimes less just because I'm on break. So I'm not dancing every day. During the school year though, I dance five days a week, varying intensities and varying times. So it could be anywhere from one to six hours a day. For example, we had a guest artist come in recently and I went from dancing 2 hours 5 days a week to 8 hours 6 days a week. So that'll fluctuate. And same with intensity. Like we'll go from two hours non stop dancing or sometimes it'll be two hours like rolling around on the floor kind of barriers, obviously my hormones, there are issues there. I had a one on one with Dr. Cabral about that high cortisol, the root cause, if you didn't guess it. And then physically, one of my goals is to build my glutes, and I, like, don't connect to them. In hip thrusts, I feel my hamstrings, cramp, deadlifts, low back pain, squats, front hip pain, and low back pain.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah.

[H]

And then my questions. So what would you have me do right now in my period of recovery? Later, after I've recovered during the school year and then during summer break. So like, a longer period of break and then shorter breaks when I'm not dancing. So, like, in season versus off season. Second question is how to modulate workouts depending on how hard I'm pushing in dance while still progressing, stimulus or load to make progress. And then tailoring your guys's programs to fit my life schedule and glute goals without messing up volume markers per week or, like, still having them be effective. I'm sorry if that made no sense.

[Justin Andrews]

No, that's great.

[Elaine]

That's great. Mass 15 is the program.

[Justin Andrews]

That's it. So. So, dancers, how recent?

[Elaine]

That's a.

[Justin Andrews]

The pictures you sent us. How recent are those, by the way?

[Elaine]

Those are a while back.

[H]

So the one in the dress was from about two years ago. The second one was a year ago.

[Elaine]

No, the shred. When you're shredded, that's when you were like, 9%, right? I'm looking.

[Justin Andrews]

You have, like, a pink sports bra on.

[H]

Pink sports bras. Most recent. The brown sports bra is a year ago.

[Elaine]

Oh, you're that shredded.

[Justin Andrews]

So here's the thing. I'll just be honest with you. Like, training dancers is always very challenging. Yeah, it is difficult because you guys. You guys practice a lot.

[Chuck]

Constant signal.

[Justin Andrews]

A constant practice. Constant. You're used to over training. You're used to just beating yourself up. It's part of the game, if you will, or the sport of dance. Your feet hurt, your knees hurt, your back hurt. You just keep going. And you love what you do. So you get this relationship with pain.

[Chuck]

That is kind of like you've hardwired these patterns completely.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah, glute development's hard with dancers, too. You typically, sprinters get big glutes. Dancers don't.

[Elaine]

Well, I'll tell you right now, it's especially hard, too. You're in a deficit. I mean, that lean, that shredded. You're in a deficit.

[Justin Andrews]

So what we need to do with you is you need to back way off, way off on everything, on your breaks and when you're doing your. When you're dancing, work on A lot.

[Chuck]

Of just glute connection.

[Justin Andrews]

Don't try to progress with your strength training when you're dancing. It's not going to happen. What you're doing while you're dancing is you're trying to do injury prevention. Okay. The time to progress with strength is when you're not dancing or when you're dancing minimally. But when you're doing the two, three, four, six hours a day of dance, if you go with the mentality of I'm going to get stronger in the gym, you're going to overdo it 100% because you're already doing so much. So the best thing you could do is the kind of strength training you do while you're dancing is just to maintain, to not injure yourself, correctional exercise, that kind of stuff. But someone like you, until you're done with dance, which will probably be a while because you're young, you should live in a Maps 15 style of training. Always, like off season, on season, always. The difference is off season you'll get stronger, in season you won't. Off season, you're just going to do those workouts and then just kind of stay active, but don't push it. And you'll get stronger because of the less volume. So that's what you'll notice is off season, like, oh, my strength's going up. I'm building muscle. Then when you get back into in season, everything's going to kind of slow down because of the amount of dance you're doing. But while you're doing all this, Maps 15 and we have two programs now. We have traditional Maps 15. Then we have Maps 15 performance, which I think you will love. Someone like you will totally love.

[Chuck]

Oh, Yep.

[H]

I got maps 15 performance because I saw the launch and I was like, like, I have a feeling this is.

[Chuck]

That's right.

[H]

Gonna be recommended.

[Justin Andrews]

Perfect.

[Elaine]

Yes.

[Justin Andrews]

Do you have. Do you have our original?

[Elaine]

Yeah. We appreciate the support. Since you knew we were gonna probably.

[Justin Andrews]

Give it to you. Do you have the original one too? Because we'll send it to you.

[H]

I don't have the original one.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah, no, we'll send it to you. So here's what I want you to do. Follow mass 15. Do the barbell free weight version. Follow mass 15 performance. Then go back to 15. Then go back to 15 performance. Those are your programs that you're gonna live. Toggle.

[Chuck]

Yeah, toggle between.

[Elaine]

I'd like to see a bump in galleries.

[Justin Andrews]

Calories also.

[Elaine]

I would like to.

[Justin Andrews]

Haven't even got there.

[Elaine]

I would like to see a bump in calories. I. Whatever test is telling you you're 23. I call on the test, it's. You're leaner than that. You're lean.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah. You got abs.

[Elaine]

Yeah, you're lean. You're ripped right now. So I would believe more closer to the single digit that you were before. I mean, you're. You're.

[Justin Andrews]

How's your. How's your hormones now? Do you have a regular period? Or has it got. Has it come back?

[H]

No, they're still. They're still down there. I think it's because I'm. I'm scared to do the.

[Justin Andrews]

The.

[H]

The bump. Just because, like, in dance, like, even now, right now, you're calling me shredded. I had a teacher tell me that I need to shave down the thighs a bit. So it's definitely a mental game. Like, cognitively, I know I'm just like everyone else. I know what you're gonna say, and I know what's right, but it's just like.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah.

[H]

Pushing through it. Especially because, like you said, I am a.

[Chuck]

You only have so much dancers.

[Elaine]

The. This is what makes you an athlete.

[Chuck]

You're in the athlete mode.

[Elaine]

This is the athlete side of it, where it's not healthy for you, but you know it, you recognize it. It's part of the sport. I get it.

[Chuck]

But you just got to supplement.

[Justin Andrews]

If you can bump your calories and be okay with it. I think it's. Eating 3,000 calories a day is fine, but you're doing so much activity. But I think. I think you might be able to get away with not bumping your calories if you keep the volume way down.

[Elaine]

Sal. What about, like, eaas and some supplements you would recommend, too? There's. What kind of supplement stack are you on? You're gonna say you're an example of somebody that I would put on some supplements for sure.

[H]

I mean, right now I'm finishing up the limited CBO protocol, so all those supplements, but outside of that, I do creatine.

[Justin Andrews]

Good.

[H]

I'll use, like, a protein powder, bone broth.

[Justin Andrews]

Oh, good. Do you do Omega 3s?

[Elaine]

I would get her on EAA.

[H]

I do that with, like. Like, fish. I'll make sure I eat, like, two cans of sardines a day. I don't know if that's the same, but.

[Justin Andrews]

No, that's great.

[Elaine]

That's even better.

[Justin Andrews]

That's amazing.

[Elaine]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah. I like essential amino acids. You could take a couple servings of that a day. I. I don't.

[Elaine]

You.

[Justin Andrews]

You could probably get away without bumping your calories. If you're consistently eating around 3, 000 with the reduced volume and. And your. Your period is going to be a good guide, by the way. If you start to get really regular with your period, then. Then things are moving a the right direction.

[Elaine]

You're hitting 3,000 calories right now.

[H]

Yeah.

[Elaine]

Damn, you're burning sometimes.

[Chuck]

Crazy.

[Elaine]

Holy. You're burning.

[Justin Andrews]

Well, bro, she's doing. She just said eight hours of dance she was doing with the guests. I think if you keep your calories where you're at, if you're afraid of getting too much muscle or your, you know, your. Your dance instructor, your. Your coaches are telling you, whatever.

[H]

I'd rather have too much muscle. Honestly, I'm just scared of body fat. Like, I.

[Elaine]

You're not gonna put.

[H]

I'm all in on the muscle.

[Elaine]

You're not gonna. You're not gonna put body. As long as you don't go eat a bunch of garbage. You're gonna. You're gonna.

[Justin Andrews]

No, you're fine. Emilia, too, here, let me tell you this too, because you're 21, okay? You're gonna live most of your life outside of this time. And dancers have been really. They get really challenged with the body image stuff. It's some of the most challenging clients I've worked with with this were dancers because for some reason, the space feels very comfortable telling girls that they're too big. You don't look good, whatever. So you're just told by these people, constantly reminded. And it's a challenge anyway way. So just remember that, okay? So remember, like, you know, and it'll help you to remember that. To remember, like, okay, I, you know, I'm thinking this way because this is the world I live in. This is not the real world. And I'm going to be outside of this at some point, living a normal life. And so. Because what will happen is when you get out of dance, it's going to stick with you, this mentality. So just. Just consider that. Keep listening to us because we talk about this all the time. But the programs let live in maps 15 and maps 15 performance.

[Elaine]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

Live in those two programs.

[Chuck]

Right. Serve you much better.

[Justin Andrews]

Don't do any more working out and.

[Elaine]

Even be okay with sometimes taking off math 15 because you. You are such high volume of work. That workload you're doing, it's like, It's. Matt, it's math 15 or less for you. Yeah, it's. Any more is not going to serve you. And. And I do think you could eat a little more calories. I think you'll just get. I think you'll just build muscle.

[Justin Andrews]

Yep.

[Elaine]

And I. And I think a way, too. I think that'll help. That definitely without the calories is the EAA. So Keon has some really good EAs, both in pill or powder form. I think sipping on those throughout the day or taking the pills, whichever. Easier for you. You're a type of client. With the amount of volume of movement.

[Justin Andrews]

You'Re doing, here's the two positive signs I want you to pay attention to, because you're gonna get. Some lies are gonna come to you, because if you gain muscle, you're gonna feel, oh, my God, I'm getting bigger. It might mess with your head a little bit. Here's the two things you should notice that are positive you're getting stronger, which you should start to see pretty quickly, if you follow what we're saying. And then period regularity.

[Elaine]

That's what I want to see.

[Justin Andrews]

When those things start to together, you're on the right track.

[Elaine]

Yeah.

[H]

Okay.

[Justin Andrews]

All right.

[Elaine]

Yeah.

[H]

Even so. Even on the days when I'm, like, not really dancing that much, like, it's more like rolling around on the floor.

[Justin Andrews]

Correct.

[Elaine]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

You do so much. You do so much anywhere.

[Elaine]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

Anyways.

[Elaine]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

Yes. 100.

[Elaine]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

Listen, if I was training you, Amelia, there's only one reason why I'm not giving you the following advice. Because I can't train you. You. If I was training you, I would tell you to take days off.

[Elaine]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

But I know you're not gonna listen to me if I say that, and I know that'll probably drive you crazy, so I'm saying 15.

[H]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

Math 15.

[H]

Okay.

[Elaine]

I want you to check in with.

[H]

Those math 15 calorie bump. So going.

[Justin Andrews]

What was that?

[H]

Sorry, I completely.

[Elaine]

Amelia, are you in our form? Are you in our forum?

[H]

I am.

[Elaine]

Okay, good, because I want you to keep us updated. Okay. Okay.

[H]

Okay. Yeah. I'm just trying to wrap my head around it and see if I have any immediate questions. What about? I know this sounds so bad, but I'm like, is there no hope for the glute growth?

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah, what I said.

[Elaine]

Here's the thing, though. You can't get it.

[Chuck]

Bringing the volume down is going to help.

[Elaine]

More volume, more intensity is not going to get it. What's more likely to get it is the reduction of volume, the increase in calories. You can't. You can't build without the. You cannot build an ass without the material. And you're burning all the material. You're burning it up. The more you do, the more stuff you keep piling on, whether it's extra, whether it's lifting weights or movement. With dance, you're burning up all your material. So the only way the ass comes is by scaling back some of the volume and or potentially increasing calories. That's the only way.

[Justin Andrews]

If literally the advice we gave you is your best, is your best bet for building your butt.

[Elaine]

Yes.

[Sal DiStefano]

Okay.

[H]

Yeah. Thank you, guys.

[Chuck]

You know what?

[Justin Andrews]

Here's what we're gonna do. Emilia, can we follow up? Can we have you back on the podcast in, like, 30 to 45 days? Days?

[H]

Sure. That'd be great.

[Justin Andrews]

Okay.

[Chuck]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

All right, we're gonna reach out to you again.

[Chuck]

Accountability.

[Justin Andrews]

We'll get you back on. Okay. So if you don't, do we say.

[H]

We'Re gonna thank you for the accountability and the advice and the program and everything you guys do. Honestly, like, we got you.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah. Keep it up.

[H]

Because you. You saved me, for lack of a better word.

[Justin Andrews]

Thank you for. I appreciate that.

[Elaine]

We got you.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah, we're on you. By the way, nice picture of that. What is that a painting of a dog right next to you? It's adorable.

[H]

Oh, yeah. Thank you.

[Doug]

I painted.

[H]

She's 14 now.

[Elaine]

All right.

[Justin Andrews]

All right, Amelia, we'll see you again about 45 days.

[Elaine]

In the meantime, as you're going through this and you're trying to apply this stuff, if you have any questions, just tag us in the forum. Okay. Message us in the forum, and then we'll stay in touch. Okay.

[H]

Yeah. Thank you. Also, I wanted to make sure Mr. Doug knew that my email that I sent this question in is different than the email that I used for, like. Like, purchasing programs. I don't know if that matters, but.

[Doug]

Already figured it out.

[Justin Andrews]

You're done.

[Doug]

You're already got the program.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah.

[Elaine]

We got you.

[H]

All right.

[Elaine]

All right.

[H]

Thank you.

[Justin Andrews]

Thank you.

[Elaine]

Have a good one.

[Justin Andrews]

Sweet girl.

[Elaine]

Total sweetheart, bro.

[Justin Andrews]

Jesus Christ.

[Elaine]

She was so I.

[Justin Andrews]

Six hours a day.

[Elaine]

Yeah, well, I saw the picture. I thought that was the 9%. She's like, that's right now. I'm like, holy.

[Justin Andrews]

No, that ain't no 20.

[Elaine]

That's at 23%.

[Chuck]

That's such dance culture, too. What? She's highlighting the hardest crazy.

[Justin Andrews]

Like, some of the hardest athletes, clients I'd ever have to train. We're dancers.

[Elaine]

You know how hard that would be if that was my daughter and a coach was telling her about her thighs?

[Chuck]

And of course.

[Elaine]

Oh, my God, dude.

[Justin Andrews]

Oh, that's brutal.

[Chuck]

Like that.

[Justin Andrews]

Like I said, it's acceptable.

[Elaine]

She seems to have a good head though.

[Justin Andrews]

That's right.

[Elaine]

Considering all that, she seems pretty self aware. Like if there's a chance that of a dancer coming out of that culture and it not traumatizing them. Yeah, she has, she has, she has hope because she's doing all the smart.

[Chuck]

Things on top of like, you know, this rigorous schedule stance and it's like, you know, know, unfortunately it doesn't work.

[Justin Andrews]

It's also not talked about enough with dancers. Whereas these girls are told to ignore injuries and pain. They are literally told to ignore injuries and pain. And you think dancer like oh, they're not. Oh no, they're terrible. Yeah, about it. Look, if you like our show, come find us on Instagram. Justin is at Mind Pump. Justin, I'm at mind pump. DiStefano Adams at mindpump.

[Doug]

Adam, thank you for listening to Mind Pump. If your goal is to build and shape your body dramatically, improve your health and energy and maximize your overall performance, check out our discounted RGB super [e-mail] the RGB Super Bundle includes maps, Anabolic maps, Performance and maps, aesthetic. Nine months of phased expert exercise programming designed by Sal, Adam and Justin to systematically transform the way your body looks, feels and performs forms with detailed workout blueprints and over 200 videos. The RGB Super Bundle is like having Sal, Adam and Justin as your own personal trainers, but at a fraction of the price. The RGB Super Bundle has a full 30 day money back guarantee and you can get it now. Plus other valuable free [e-mail] if you enjoy this show, please share the love by leaving us a five star rating and review on itunes and by introducing Mind Pump to your friends and family. We thank you for your support and until next time, this is Mind Pump.