2529: Trying to Lose Weight? Avoid These 3 Common “Healthy” Breakfast Choices (Listener Live Coaching)

Summary

Podcast Summary: Mind Pump: Raw Fitness Truth - Episode 2529

Title: Trying to Lose Weight? Avoid These 3 Common “Healthy” Breakfast Choices (Listener Live Coaching)
Release Date: February 8, 2025
Hosts: Sal DeStefano, Adam Schafer, Justin Andrews, Doug Egge

---

Introduction

In Episode 2529 of Mind Pump: Raw Fitness Truth, hosts Sal DeStefano, Adam Schafer, Justin Andrews, and producer Doug Egge tackle a critical aspect of weight loss: breakfast choices. Through live listener coaching, they dissect three seemingly healthy breakfast options that may hinder weight loss efforts. This comprehensive discussion provides science-backed insights to help listeners make informed dietary decisions.

1. The Avocado Toast Dilemma

Key Points:

• Popularity vs. Nutritional Value: Avocado toast has surged in popularity, often hailed as a "superfood" choice. However, it is high in calories and lacks significant protein.
• Impact on Satiety and Blood Sugar: A breakfast high in fats and carbohydrates but low in protein can lead to insulin spikes and subsequent energy crashes, making it harder to adhere to a weight loss diet.

Notable Quotes:

• Sal DeStefano [03:11]: "Avocado toast by itself for breakfast. Not a great choice."
• Adam Schafer [05:39]: "I knew it. I knew it." (Referring to Gwyneth Paltrow popularizing avocado toast.)

Discussion: The hosts agree that while avocado is a nutritious fat source, when paired with high-calorie bread, it lacks the necessary protein to promote satiety and stabilize blood sugar levels. Sal emphasizes the importance of protein in the morning to aid muscle preservation and reduce cravings:
"If you're trying to hit a fat loss goal, protein should be what you go after. It helps with satiety, it helps with muscle preservation at the least, muscle building at best."
(Sal DeStefano, [03:27])

They also explore the cultural phenomenon of avocado toast, attributing its popularity to figures like Gwyneth Paltrow and platforms like TikTok, though they note its rise predates social media trends.

2. The Fruit Smoothie Conundrum

Key Points:

• Caloric and Sugar Content: Fruit smoothies often contain high levels of sugar and calories, akin to consuming soda in terms of their impact on blood sugar.
• Lack of Protein: Similar to avocado toast, smoothies typically lack sufficient protein unless specifically supplemented, leading to poor satiety.

Notable Quotes:

• Sal DeStefano [09:35]: "It's high in calorie with this impact on my blood sugar that resembles a soda."
• Adam Schafer [11:20]: "A can of soda is what, 160 calories, 30 grams of sugar. A small Jamba Juice smoothie is 300 to 500 calories and try more."

Discussion: The discussion highlights how blending fruits breaks down fiber, leading to faster digestion and higher glycemic responses. Sal compares the blood sugar impact of blended smoothies to that of sodas, noting that even with added protein, the overall effect remains detrimental for those aiming to lose weight. They caution against the misconception that smoothies are inherently healthy and stress the importance of maintaining a balanced macronutrient intake.

3. Skipping Breakfast: A Controversial Choice

Key Points:

• Protein Intake Challenges: Skipping breakfast can make it difficult to meet daily protein requirements, essential for muscle maintenance and metabolic health.
• Potential for Unhealthy Eating Patterns: Fasting or meal-skipping can lead to binge eating and a restricted relationship with food, undermining long-term dietary success.

Notable Quotes:

• Sal DeStefano [12:28]: "Skipping breakfast is like one of the worst things that we could do."
• Adam Schafer [13:20]: "Every single client I ever trained struggled to hit their protein intake."

Discussion: Adam shares insights from his experience, emphasizing that skipping breakfast often leads clients to fall short of their protein goals, which is crucial for both fat loss and muscle building. Sal mentions the psychological impact, where meal-skipping can foster a binge-restrict cycle, making sustainable diet adherence more challenging. They also touch upon how functional medicine practitioners advocate for breakfast to regulate hormones and reduce anxiety, citing examples like Jordan Peterson's recommendations.

Solutions and Recommendations

1. Balancing Macronutrients:

• Incorporate high-protein sources into meals, especially breakfast, to enhance satiety and stabilize blood sugar levels.
• Sal suggests pairing avocado toast with protein-rich foods like scrambled eggs to mitigate its shortcomings:
  "But if you eat something high protein with it or first, then it's not that big of a deal."
  (Sal DeStefano, [05:38])

2. Rethinking Smoothie Consumption:

• Limit the quantity of blended fruits and consider adding significant protein sources to counteract their high sugar impact.
• Opt for whole fruits over smoothies to benefit from fiber and reduce unnecessary caloric intake.

3. Emphasizing Regular Protein Intake:

• Ensure consistent protein consumption throughout the day to support muscle preservation and metabolic function.
• Avoid extreme meal-skipping strategies that lead to inadequate protein intake and potential metabolic slowdowns.

Additional Insights:

• Sal discusses the role of functional medicine in addressing dietary habits and suggests innovative solutions like adding protein powders to coffee to ease the transition into a protein-rich breakfast (e.g., Paleo Valley's salted caramel bone broth protein).
• The hosts also highlight the importance of psychological factors in meal planning, advocating for a balanced and sustainable approach over trendy or extreme dietary choices.

Conclusion

Episode 2529 of Mind Pump provides a nuanced examination of common breakfast choices that, despite their health halo, can impede weight loss efforts. By focusing on protein intake, regulating blood sugar levels, and fostering a healthy relationship with food, the hosts offer actionable strategies for listeners striving to achieve their fitness goals. The episode underscores the importance of evidence-based dietary practices over popular but potentially misleading trends.

Notable Quotes Recap:

• Sal DeStefano [03:11]: "Avocado toast by itself for breakfast. Not a great choice."
• Adam Schafer [05:39]: "I knew it. I knew it." (Referring to Gwyneth Paltrow)
• Sal DeStefano [09:35]: "It's high in calorie with this impact on my blood sugar that resembles a soda."
• Adam Schafer [11:20]: "A can of soda is what, 160 calories, 30 grams of sugar. A small Jamba Juice smoothie is 300 to 500 calories and try more."
• Sal DeStefano [12:28]: "Skipping breakfast is like one of the worst things that we could do."
• Adam Schafer [13:20]: "Every single client I ever trained struggled to hit their protein intake."

---

For more insights and science-backed fitness advice, tune into Mind Pump: Raw Fitness Truth and follow the hosts on Instagram @mindpumpmedia, @mindpumpsal, @mindpumpadam, @mindpumpjustin, and @mindpumpdoug.

Transcript

[Sal DeStefano]

You might say T Mobile takes the holistic approach to coverage because T Mobile helps keep you connected from the heart of Portland to right where you are on America's largest 5G network. Switch now. Keep your phone and T Mobile will pay it off at the $800 per.

[Adam Schaefer]

Line via prepaid card.

[Sal DeStefano]

Visit your local T Mobile location or learn more@t mobile.com keepandswitch up to 4 lines via virtual prepaid card will have 15 days qualified unlock device, credit service port in 90 plus days device and eligible carrier and timely redemption. Required card is no cash access and expires in 6 months hi there podcast lover. If you have a dark sense of humor and like your true crime stories paired with a glass of wine, then you need to check out our true crime comedy podcast Wine and Crime, hosted by two Minnesotan childhood besties, Me Amanda and Me Lucy. Each week we dive into a bizarre true crime topic. Pair that topic with a wine and get into all the dirty details. Whining crime is dark, fun, feminist and perfect for satisfying your morbid curiosities with a healthy dose of humor. Join us as we chug wine, chat true crime and unleash our worst Minnesotan accents. Check us [e-mail] and listen now. Wherever you get your podcasts, if you want to pump your body and expand.

[Justin Andrews]

Your mind, there's only one place to go. Mind Pump Mind Pump with your hosts Sal DeStefano, Adam Schaefer and Justin Andrews.

[Sal DeStefano]

You just found the most downloaded fitness, health and entertainment podcast. This is Mind Pump. Today's episode we answered live callers, questions people called in. We got to help them on air, we coached them. But this was after our intro portion. Today's intro was 53 minutes long. In the intro we talk about fitness studies, fitness advice, diets, current events and more. It's a good time. By the way, if you want to email us your questions where you can be on the episode, email us at liveindpump Media now. This episode is brought to you by some sponsors. The first one is Paleo Valley. Today we talked about their salted caramel bone broth protein. It's delicious. We talked about adding it to your coffee in your morning, but you can add it to many things or just drink it on its own. It's delicious. Go try it out. Go to paleovalley.com forward/mindpump. That link will get you 15% off. Then one of our sponsors is also Organifi. Organifi brings you organic supplements for health, wellness, vitality. Today we talked about their happy drops, which contain saffron, which is great to lift your mood as proven by studies. Go check them out. Go to organifi.com mindpump Use the code mind pump. Get 20% off. We also have a program sale this month. We took Maps Anabolic. We combined it with the no BS six pack formula. We discounted it heavily. Get maps anabolic plus the no BS six pack formula for $59.99. That's it. That's how you get both. If you're Interested, go to maps february.com all right, here comes the show. You're trying to lose weight. Look, avoid these three common healthy breakfast choices. If you eat these, it's going to be really hard. The first one, avocado toast.

[Adam Schaefer]

Oh, you just broke every chick's heart. I know everybody that's like staples.

[Sal DeStefano]

Avocado toast.

[Adam Schaefer]

Somehow every fitness influence, every fitness influencer chick's gonna be coming after you for this one.

[Sal DeStefano]

It's, it got put into this category of like, it's a good choice. Cuz it's got avocado on it.

[Adam Schaefer]

Because it's a superfood. Yeah, that's the only reason why. Because avocado is considered a superfood. And it's, it's not even low calorie really. It's like it's.

[Sal DeStefano]

Well, it's high. Here's, here's the problem with it. There's nothing necessarily wrong with avocado toast. Not necessarily wrong with it, although I'd say I typically don't recommend bread for most people, but nothing necessarily wrong with it. But what you're doing in the morning with this is you're having no protein. Carbohydrates and fats. Fats to an extent help with satiety. They also help the insulin spike that you get from carbohydrate intake a little bit, but not like protein. And if you're trying to hit a fat loss goal, protein should be what you go after. It helps with satiety, it helps with muscle preservation at the least, muscle building at best. And it blunts the blood sugar insulin spike that you get from consuming food. What you want to do, because if you get these high spikes and low drops, which is what happens when you have just sugar or just sugar and fats, even to a lower degree, but you still get it, is you have these changes in how you feel, cravings, energy crashes that result in more challenging time to stick to a normal diet or a good diet, I should say. So avocado toast by itself for breakfast. Not a great choice.

[Adam Schaefer]

Who started that drink? Any ideas?

[Sal DeStefano]

Social reality shows, Reality TV shows?

[Adam Schaefer]

Are you just saying that?

[Sal DeStefano]

No, because my daughter's 15 and she started. She's like, avocado toast. I'm like, where'd you figure this out?

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah, probably TikTok.

[Doug]

Like every cafe now. Yeah, it's very popular.

[Adam Schaefer]

Avocado has been more popular before. Tik Tok. And I don't. I don't think TikTok is responsible for it. Maybe old reality show, like, there's got to be somebody or like somebody famous who made it a thing. Google it. I mean, who made avocado toast popular because where it tastes good, but when we were growing up, it wasn't even a thing.

[Sal DeStefano]

Avocado in general wasn't a thing, period.

[Adam Schaefer]

That's what I'm saying. So something happened in culture.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah.

[Adam Schaefer]

To make it this phenomenon where, like, it's the thing that I. I do.

[Sal DeStefano]

Want to say, though, if this is what you like to have for breakfast, you could make this not a bad choice. If you eat something high protein with it or first, then it's not that big of a deal. It is high calorie, but it's not that big of a deal if you had like, 30 grams of protein with this. Now you've got the proteins, the healthy fats, and you're getting the benefits of protein.

[Adam Schaefer]

Who is it?

[Justin Andrews]

Gwyneth Paltrow.

[Adam Schaefer]

I knew it. I knew it.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah, you hit the nail on the head.

[Doug]

Ah, the goop.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah, you knew it.

[Adam Schaefer]

Oh, no kidding. Does it say, like, was it during.

[Justin Andrews]

Like, a 2013, she published a cookbook that had that as a recipe?

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah, it's like a real hard recipe.

[Justin Andrews]

However, some would argue that an Australian back in 1993 popularized it initially.

[Adam Schaefer]

Well, yeah, maybe she got it from there and then she brought it over here. But there were definitely in the States, this was not a thing when we were growing up. And it became. I remember it became a phenomenon, like, all of a sudden.

[Sal DeStefano]

Oh, you get it.

[Adam Schaefer]

Every girl I knew was eating, you know, having a cup of coffee at Starbucks, and avocado toast was like, you know, the trainer in me goes like, why? Why? You know what. What made you think that's a good idea?

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah, Again, avocado is a healthy food in general. Healthy fats.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah, but that's.

[Sal DeStefano]

It's got fiber in it.

[Adam Schaefer]

I mean, almonds are sure, you know, but nobody tells you to have a handful of almonds with an English muffin.

[Sal DeStefano]

You combine something that has some good. Some, you know, Good health properties to it with high palatability, which. Have you guys had avocado? It's really good. You're going to have a trend, but. Okay, first, I think we should paint the context. A good breakfast. A good breakfast that helps with weight loss should have the following. It should. It should have protein in it and it should help. Help with satiety and help with blood sugar control. And a high protein breakfast will do that. Avocado toast has none of that. It's got fat, some fiber and carbohydrates, and it's also high calorie on top of it. You're also consuming. You know, if you eat a whole lot. How many calories in a whole avocado? Like 400 calories. Yeah.

[Adam Schaefer]

I can't wait for the editing team to edit this one for the clip. It's going to be like, Gwyneth Paltrow is wrong. Yeah, my thumb says so.

[Sal DeStefano]

That's true, that's true, that's true.

[Adam Schaefer]

Coming.

[Sal DeStefano]

But if you eat high protein with this, you have like, you know, like six scrambled eggs and then you have this.

[Adam Schaefer]

Who's doing that, though? Chick is scrambling six eggs that have an avocado toast. That's just not happening.

[Sal DeStefano]

But, you know, most women with their. With their goal. Most women, I. They probably should start with around 30 grams of protein in the morning. So. Large avocado. Okay. 320 cal. How big is a large avocado?

[Justin Andrews]

200 grams.

[Sal DeStefano]

I, I don't know. You know how it is with these things.

[Adam Schaefer]

That's why you. I, you know when I never like stuff like this, because small, medium, and large, a lot of times they're using numbers that date way back to, like. And the size of all of our fruits, vegetables, potato, everything, has grown significantly. And there's no such thing as a small avocado.

[Sal DeStefano]

No. Yeah.

[Doug]

You know, Cordy just ordered one of these recently when we were at this cafe. And it was like, the bread alone looked almost like. Like a pound cake. It was so big. It was like, this is a toast. Like, it just classifying it as weird.

[Adam Schaefer]

Where were we just at? She just had that. It was massive, actually.

[Sal DeStefano]

Typically what I get is a slice of sourdough bread that.

[Adam Schaefer]

Think you might be right. That is right. That's where she had. It was. It happened. Bay.

[Doug]

Yeah.

[Adam Schaefer]

I was like, that's so funny, you guys. Katrina wore it after breakfast. It was like a quarter of it. She got.

[Sal DeStefano]

It was this like 800 calories.

[Adam Schaefer]

Massive.

[Sal DeStefano]

No protein.

[Adam Schaefer]

It was massive. I was like, oh, my God. It's the biggest. That's so funny. I was like, where did, how did you guys do the same thing?

[Sal DeStefano]

So it's all carbohydrates, fats, no proteins whatsoever. Yeah, yeah. Next. A lot of people think this is really healthy and people will get this in pursuit of better health and fat loss. And that's a fruit smoothie. Fruit smoothies, again, have almost no protein unless you add a bunch of protein to it. But, but what you've done with fruit when you blend it up is you've pre digested it and dramatically increased its blood sugar impact on you. So you've made something because like, for example, berries. If you eat berries, you eat an actual berry. It's high fiber. Yeah. It's got sugar, not a ton, but it's high fiber and it doesn't cause these crazy spikes in blood sugar. But if you take a bunch of berries and blend the hell out of them.

[Doug]

Yeah. There's no slowing it down to really digest it. It's like almost immediate.

[Sal DeStefano]

That's right.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah. I blame all the Cal Poly kids for this one.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah, that's where that's.

[Adam Schaefer]

Who invented Jamba Juice.

[Sal DeStefano]

Oh, that's right.

[Adam Schaefer]

It was a senior project. Jamba Juice was a senior project from a couple kids from Cal Poly who started the first Jamba Juice. And then obviously it was exploded. But how, how long did people. I mean, I'm sure you guys remember training clients who thought Jamba Juice was a good choice.

[Doug]

I mean, like, I remember there was diets like directly around these like smoothies, and it was like the whole smoothie diet, like was huge for a while when we were growing up.

[Adam Schaefer]

I remember the first time I looked up the Nutrifax on like a smoothie.

[Sal DeStefano]

Oh, they're like 600 calories, 700 calories.

[Adam Schaefer]

Oh, for like small. I mean, they get up to a thousand calories and they're just sugar.

[Sal DeStefano]

What you've done is you've dramatically. So let me just paint the picture here. You've dramatically increased your ability to consume more fruit. Fruit by itself is not bad. If you had fruitless again with some protein in the morning, you'd be good, you'd be well off. But if you. But there's an amount of fruit that you can eat when you eat it in its natural form, like skin and everything like that.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

You're not going to eat, you know, 600 calories worth of berries. But if I blended them, and especially if I added some, you know, non fat milk and some whatever flavor in there.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah. Yogurt, or ice cream, yogurt.

[Sal DeStefano]

It's going to make it really palatable. And I can consume way more than I normally would. And I get this tremendous amount of calories with this, with this impact on my blood sugar that resembles a soda simply because we have broke it down so much. I'm not saying it's worse than a soda or as bad as a soda, but from a satiety standpoint, calorie standpoint, for fat loss, it's not a great choice.

[Adam Schaefer]

Oh, you could make the argument it's worse. I know you don't want to do that because I know people are going to freak out when you say that. But if, I mean, a can of soda is what, 160 calories, 30 grams of sugar. A small Jamba juicer smoothie is try 300 to 500 calories and try more.

[Sal DeStefano]

I guess when you're weighing everything out.

[Doug]

Yeah, yeah, I'm pretty sure it was at Jack Lalanne, it was like, tried real hard to get everybody to juice everything so it's easier for. And so I, I, in terms of it being a health thing, I think that's probably where it started in that culture.

[Sal DeStefano]

I will say this many of, if I'm not mistaken, Jack Elaine's juices were vegetables.

[Doug]

Vegetables.

[Adam Schaefer]

That's how it was.

[Sal DeStefano]

Low calorie. And what he's doing is he's trying to maximize nutrient intake. Now, I'm not a huge fan of that either. I think it's oversold. Yeah, but it's not the same thing as a fruit smoothie. Fruit smoothies are ridiculous. They're high in calorie. Even if you add protein, most fruit smoothie places, when you say add a scoop of protein, you're getting eight grams. Eight grams of protein is typically maybe.

[Adam Schaefer]

20 if you have, like, double it up or something.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yes. But even then you're looking at, you know, 60 grams of sugar blended to have a high sugar impact on your body. Again, the glycemic index went through the roof. You add 8 grams of protein, it's not going to do a whole lot. So smoothies, if you're trying to lose weight.

[Doug]

Yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

It's not a great way to start your day. The last one and this one I know is going to be the most controversial. The. An unhealthy breakfast choice for someone trying to lose weight is skipping breakfast.

[Adam Schaefer]

Ooh, I like this one.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yes.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah, I like this one because I think that a lot of, A lot.

[Doug]

Of people are doing that.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah. Fasting is as popular, more popular than Ever people find that they do these eating windows and they lose some weight and so they think it's a successful way to lose weight. But when I have, when we go back and we talk about every single client I ever trained, every single one of them struggled to hit their protein intake. And if you take a meal out of their day, it's already hard to get high protein breakfast as it is. And if they completely skip it and they don't eat till lunch or one or two in the afternoon, it is so hard to hit that protein intake. And if I've got this client on a fat loss journey and I'm strength training with them and I'm trying to build muscle and build their metabolism, skipping breakfast is like one of the worst things that we could do.

[Doug]

You're behind all day.

[Sal DeStefano]

It also encourages because when you look at, you know, if you want a long term, successful, you know, relationship with nutrition, you want a relationship that's healthy with food. And what this tends to promote is a binge, restrict type of relationship with food. So whenever I would train now fasting for spiritual reasons, I love it. I think it's incredible. I think it's amazing. Fasting for certain medical conditions makes sense. Sometimes it's oversold for the average person, all the health benefits of fasting when they show in studies are pretty much matched with calorie restriction. There may be some benefits for certain medical situations, gut health issues and stuff like that, in which case your functional medicine practitioner will tell you, let's not have you eat for this many hours to, you know, whatever, give your gut a break or whatever they determine. But generally speaking, what you see when people do this is they start to adopt this behavior where it's like restrict, restrict, restrict eating time. Binge, binge, binge, even if they eat healthy. Here's what I've seen with clients, even clients who were super disciplined in the beginning and didn't reach for unhealthy foods when it was time to eat, the speed at which they ate the food that they were going to eat was fast. This is what you notice. And I would ask my clients this, when you're done with your fasting window and it's time to eat at 1pm, 2pm, whatever, pay attention to how fast you eat your food. And they come back to me and go, it's really crazy. You said that sales, I'm like scarfing it down. That's a relationship you're developing with food that isn't a long term healthy one that is going to be able to Stick around with and succeed from. So skipping meals again, unless it's for spiritual purposes, I don't think it's a great idea.

[Adam Schaefer]

So you bring up skipping meals and breakfast. My sister in law, this was a conversation that we recently had and she's like, just have coffee. And I had her start doing the Paleo Valley inside her coffee and she's.

[Sal DeStefano]

Like, oh, so she has some protein in there.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah. And what the salty caramel inside the coffee is unbelievable. And Paleo Valley's protein powder is like you can scoop so much of it in and it doesn't like, you know, like some protein powders you scoop and it's like all thick and yogurty. Like it's so thin that you could do double triple scoops in there. And so you get a real high protein intake mixed in coffee. Amazing. I got her to start doing that because she was again, she was in this camp of well, I don't, you know, I don't eat bad for breakfast. I just don't eat. I just have coffee and then I have my first meal at this and that. I'm, I was like, sis, you're never going to hit your protein intake. So here's one of our ways that we can sort of solve that. And by the way, when you take somebody who was a meal skipper for breakfast and they've been doing that for a long period of time, it's really hard to get that person to eat a full meal that's 40 grams of protein because their body's adapted to, they have no appetite. So this was a great way to get her to start to introduce higher protein in the morning like that and also enjoy it. And she's already drinking coffee. So that's been like amazing.

[Sal DeStefano]

You know, it's funny, by the way, this, some psychologists will actually recommend for people to work with mild anxiety to eat protein in the morning because it helps control cortisol and helps regulate hormones. So some people notice lower anxiety as a result of eating some protein in the morning as well. Interesting. In fact, Jordan Peterson talked about this a while ago how he says he recommends people wake up and eat an egg or some kind of protein to kind of, to balance you out skipping breakfast. This can happen for men, but it's more common for women. You'll see functional medicine practitioners will often tell their female clients, remember first off, there's a, just to be clear, they have a self selection bias of people who are having health issues. Okay, so they're not working with just everybody, they're working with people who go to them because they're like, I can't figure out why I feel this way, why I feel, why my hair is thinning, why I feel cold all the time. My energy's weird. And oftentimes they're people who fast. And they'll say, first things first. Eat breakfast, because it's going to help regulate your body because it can cause hormone imbalances more often in women. I had a female client that I did this with when fasting started becoming a thing. I remember lots of clients were trying it, and this woman was fasting. Now, she was already high stress. She was already type A. She was a mother on top of it. And I remember she fasted for a while. She started noticing her hair starting to fall out. She used to have all these symptoms of, like, too much stress. We were. I worked with a functional medicine practitioner, and he's like, have her. She needs to start eating breakfast.

[Doug]

Yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

And I was part of a pro protocol to kind of balance things. Balance. Balance things out. So, anyway, I want to address this. There's this, like, viral debate. I saw one of our editors send us.

[Adam Schaefer]

Oh, Danny, send over.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yes. So this is Mike Israel. Tell. Love the guy, by the way. I like the way he communicates. Fitness smart dude. And there was. There's this trainer or this online coach, and I want to say he's a. Is he a physical therapist?

[Adam Schaefer]

I don't know his background. His name is Ben Yates. He's got a pretty big Instagram page. I don't know if you guys remember, there were some things that we. He had. We had disagreed on a long time ago. I don't remember what it was, though.

[Sal DeStefano]

Okay.

[Adam Schaefer]

So I've seen his page. I've been familiar with his stuff. He's, you know, he's one of those trainers that they're. Most. All their content is, you know, finding other.

[Doug]

What's wrong with what nuances he can. Gotcha.

[Adam Schaefer]

But I. Yeah, I saw the. I saw the argument. It was over. Mike Israel loves to do these bicep curls. I've watched, actually, several videos of him doing them. He's talked about them on some interviews because I've consumed quite a bit of his content. Like, one of his favorite places to do a bicep curl is in this kind of lying back incline. Yeah. Like in a real extreme position to where he's, like, in this complete stretched position. Almost looks like a pec fly position where he's holding. But he's. What he's. He's putting the bicep in the stretch position. And he talks a lot about the benefits of. Of training muscles in the. The fully stretched position.

[Sal DeStefano]

Data shows us. The data shows that when you look at the full range of motion of an exercise, when a muscle is loaded under stretch, it has the loudest hypertrophy signal. In other words, if we were to compare all the ranges of motion, or let's say we were to compare exercises apples to apples, but this one loads you in the stretch, this one loads you, let's say, at the shortened range or the mid range of the exercise. This stretched, loaded exercise will build more muscle. And by the way, bodybuilders have observed this for decades, but we now have studies that show that this indeed is the case, that when you load a muscle in stretch, this is why some of the, like, squat versus hip thrust studies show that they build glutes. Similarly, even though a hip thrust is more of a direct glute exercise, it's because the squat loads the glutes in a stretch position. You'll see this with other exercises. So what people are doing is like, oh, let me put more stretch exercises into my routine to build more muscle.

[Doug]

And strengthen the end range.

[Sal DeStefano]

A standing barbell curl is not going to stretch your bicep.

[Adam Schaefer]

Well, the reason why I like this, before you go there, is that the, the bicep tends to be one of the more challenging places to do this.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah.

[Adam Schaefer]

When you look at all the standard machines and exercises that people do for the, for the bicep, which is why I, I've always loved an incline. I think we all. We've talked, we've programmed it.

[Sal DeStefano]

Programmed in many, most of our programs.

[Adam Schaefer]

Right. We have, we have incline, bicep curls, and a lot of them for that reason. And it's, it's one of the few ways that you can get a really good full stretch.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah. So here's the deal with the bicep. If I just extend my arm, my bicep is fully lengthened, but I'm not really getting a full stretch. And I'm limited by my elbow. Like, my elbow joint doesn't bend anymore. The way I get a stretch on my bicep is if I bring my arm back behind my body because the long head of the bicep attaches over the shoulder joint. So here it's not stretched, but if I bring my arm way back here, I'll start to feel my bicep stretch. So incline curls does that. Right. And so this guy, Ben Yates, says that biomechanically speaking, the fulcrum or the Point of contact should be at the elbow, not letting the shoulder hang, because you're just stretching the shoulder, not necessarily the bicep. I think he's right and wrong. I think he's right from a biomechanical standpoint. I think, though, he's wrong, though, because he forgets that the bicep, the long head, attaches over the shoulder joint and the bicep. A lot of trainers and coaches don't know this. It doesn't just flex the elbow. It also brings the humerus up in front of the body because of where.

[Adam Schaefer]

It attaches, which, by the way.

[Sal DeStefano]

So it's got two functions. It's not a huge function of it, but that's part of. So hanging the arm down, letting it stretch at the shoulder. It does give you a better bicep stretch. It does. So Mike Israel tell, in my opinion, is picking the better way of doing this.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah. I mean, again, this is a. The reason why I like. And I. And I hope, I love that our team is sending stuff like this over because I like to comment and talk about this, because this is where we lose so many people, right? We try and find another professional in the space and we tear apart something they're doing. And it's always great if it's somebody who's, like, trending right now. Like, Mike is everywhere, all over the place. For rightfully so, too. Right. He puts out incredible content. He's really smart. And it's like, oh, can I find something he's doing that I can pick apart? And I think the people that do this, I'm just. I'm just not a fan of this. Because you think you're helping the community by making an argument, but then you lose a lot of people. I mean, now a lot of people that follow this guy might not ever do that exercise because he made a good biomechanical argument right. For it. Like, gravity is not directly opposing the bicep right there. And so you're right. There's a part of his argument that has some truth to it.

[Sal DeStefano]

He's saying that the. The lever is so long that you want something behind.

[Adam Schaefer]

He showed. He showed a. He showed you could get the same idea by laying across a bench. And I'll have Doug post the video so the. The viewers can see this, but he shows a picture of them, the guy laying there.

[Sal DeStefano]

Same position.

[Adam Schaefer]

Same position with the Elbo elbow supported. But if the elbow's supported, then it doesn't get that stretch in the shoulder.

[Sal DeStefano]

Then.

[Adam Schaefer]

Then it's. Then it. The. The Pressure is on that, on that. And again, I agree, I disagree with the, the argument he's making because then this isn't that different than a basic concentration.

[Sal DeStefano]

It also, by the way, I don't know a lot about Ben Yates. I looked through some of his stuff. He's smart dude. But here's where the bodybuilders tend to win, by the way. Mike Israel isn't just a bodybuilder, he's also highly educated. So he's got both, try both, go do both exercises. The way Ben Yates is showing that curl, that's. That one sucks. That would way do the one that, like, try it out yourself. You just sit across a bench edgewise, put your elbows here, it's not going to feel near the same as laying on an incline bench.

[Adam Schaefer]

You know, you bring up old, you know, you bring up bodybuilders, right? And you know me, I've always been like defending the bro science on here, right? And so because there's a lot of things that we pick apart that they did that, that when you, when you actually do it and you perform it like you get it now. So what was used to be really common in the bodybuilding world is to rock your shoulders at the end of the bicep curl. So old school bodybuilders would, would curl and then finish the curl here and they curl all the way up. And that ended up being something that we tore apart.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah. Oh, that's the front delts lifting the elbows.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yes. And, and it's like. And the reason why they're doing is to get that full contraction by doing it, because there is a little bit. Now we're splitting hairs on how much more is that going to develop your bicep and the biomechanic police can come over and try and tear that apart. But there, that was the reason why.

[Sal DeStefano]

It's true.

[Adam Schaefer]

There is. It is true. I know. And this is another example of like, you know, we really love to try and rag on a lot of the bodybuilders and how they've trained for so long, but a lot of them have figured that stuff out just from trial and error, whether they understood the science or the biomechanics of it or not, they figured out like, God, I could definitely feel a difference. And if you can feel a difference, if you ever take a bicep curl and just curl it to what you think is full contraction, just squeeze your.

[Sal DeStefano]

Bicep and then bring your shoulder squeeze.

[Adam Schaefer]

And rock a little more and tell me if you don't feel more of a pump.

[Sal DeStefano]

You're bringing both. What you're doing is you're bringing both points closer together by lifting the elbow. So it shortens the bicep even more. And that's part of the bicep function. That's biomechanics. Not a huge part, but it does do that. It does do that.

[Adam Schaefer]

And to me, the real point of why I like talking about this stuff to the audience is because I care more about the person who's just trying to. To get in the gym and work out. And here you, you know, maybe you're a fan of both these guys, and now you're lost, right?

[Sal DeStefano]

Which one do I do?

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah, I'm a huge Mike Israel fan. I'm a. I like this Ben Yates guy. He's really smart. And, like, now they're. Now I'm being pitted against the two of them. Like, now I got to choose, like, who's. Who knows more. And it's just like, man, this is the. This is the problem with our space when we do stuff like this, where we pick apart people's content, especially good people putting out good stuff. Like, I'm all for, like, smashing the content. That is, like, just wrong and bad and giving and hurting people.

[Sal DeStefano]

That wasn't wrong. And he titled it, you know, debunking the something Myth. What he could have said was, hey, here's another version that I like to do. Yeah, totally fine.

[Doug]

Yeah, I'm sorry. This one. You guys found an argument that I give literally two shits.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah, I know.

[Doug]

I'm like, wow, it is so, like, minuscule, the difference, 100%, you know, with bicep curls in general. But I. I understand where you guys are coming from with that, because it's. It's a feel thing, too. And it's like, if you're trying to debunk, you know, his entire philosophy with that, it better be, like, substantial. It's not even substantial.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah, that's what I mean. Like, it better be something like, if you're going to come after somebody, especially somebody who puts out good content, in my opinion, you better have a really good reason to. To tear it apart, because, like. Like, it's completely not valid, right? Like, it has to be like, that's bullshit science. That doesn't work. That's not. Like, that's totally wrong or that could hurt you. Here's a better way. It's like, nah. Like, do it both ways and tell me if. Tell me you'll feel different.

[Sal DeStefano]

See what happens. Mike Israel till version is the one that Everybody does because it's 10 times better. But it is interesting because muscles have actions that oftentimes the average person or average trainer doesn't even know. Like the pecs, for example. We know that the pecs brings a humerus across the body. Right. With a horizontal adduction of the humerus. Right. But did you know it also internally rotates the humerus? A lot of people don't know that. So when you do a fly, if you bring your hands down a little bit, you actually get a little bit more action.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

From the packs. But it's not. It's so small. Who cares, Right? I would never make that point.

[Adam Schaefer]

And again, I would only make that.

[Sal DeStefano]

Point to sound smart, like I just did right now.

[Adam Schaefer]

Right. Well, no. Or if somebody's, like, asking that direct question, like, hey, if I internally rotate this, do I get more of this? I guess I would address like that. I wouldn't. This, this is the type of stuff, though you never talk about this to a client. And because of social media, we've. We've turned into so many, like, nuances into these debates and then got into camps and then it becomes this again. Like I said, there's. There is definitely a kid, I guarantee you, hopefully is listening to this, who probably likes both those guys and now is like, lost on a quest for the biggest bicep. What are you gonna do? Or now he thinks that one guy's more. Right. Because he, he did the latest review and who knows if Mike, you know what happens?

[Sal DeStefano]

You identify with one or the other. Like, you're either the jacked, you know.

[Adam Schaefer]

Right, right, right.

[Sal DeStefano]

Or you're like that, you know, not so jacked, but super, you know, you're trying to be smart.

[Doug]

Academic trainer.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah, that's totally what it's.

[Sal DeStefano]

I know. I had a thought this morning around nutrition that I thought I would love to bring you guys and see what you guys think about it, because I think this is. I thought about it long and hard. I went through it in my mind forward and backward. And I think it's true. I think it's true. And I think this is why. But I want to run by you guys, and I think this is why the extreme. One of the reasons why extreme diets tend to gain traction. So my thought was that the more an extreme diet is, the louder its supporters are going to be. Because if you follow, if you're one of those rare individuals that follows an extreme diet, then maybe it does work for you and now you're going to fight for it. For example, There are people out there that are super. That have so many immune reactions to foods. Maybe not allergies, but like, like they get lots of, just lots of reactions. Inflammation, joint pain, intolerances. Right. That a carnivore diet will change your life.

[Doug]

Sure.

[Sal DeStefano]

And the people who are so loud about carnivore diets are, Are those people. Yeah. And it's going to sound like it's.

[Doug]

Great for everyone, resolved the major issue that they're dealing with.

[Sal DeStefano]

So I, I feel like extreme diets have really loud proponents because the ones that it works for are the ones where they are different than most people. Like I said, like carnivore diet. Like Michaela Peterson, she needs to eat carnivore diet. It saved her life. Most people, terrible.

[Adam Schaefer]

I don't know if it's. So I don't think that's something. I don't think I disagree with you as much as I think that there's a, there's a, there's a greater reason for what's happening. So. And I don't know if it's necessarily maybe hear me out and you can tell me if I'm aligning or I'm disagreeing with you in this situation. So this morning you, you weren't on the call, but our YouTube guy, right. Who was following analytics always and is breaking down everything that we say and do and is always trying to like, help us shape content. Right. So it's, it's found by more people. You know, one of the things that is proven is that when we say something very direct, short and simple, we get the most traction, the most views, the most shared. And so what I think happens with the, like into your point with extreme diets, another way of saying extreme diets is also simplistic.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah.

[Adam Schaefer]

Black, one thing. Only meat, no nuance. Yes.

[Sal DeStefano]

Only explain to me the carnivore.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah, yeah, exactly.

[Sal DeStefano]

All you eat is.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah. Oh, that's all I gotta do. You know, all you do is only eat during this time to that time. Got it. You know, say like all the rules. Got it. And then it actually works for some people and works really well. And so then I think you get this fervor around it of like one because it's simple, so many people can follow it so you get a larger portion.

[Doug]

There's a lot of people that hate vegetables.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Right. And then, and then it actually works.

[Sal DeStefano]

I agree with you. I think that's part of the formula.

[Adam Schaefer]

Right, right. So I don't know if it's like I'm I don't think.

[Sal DeStefano]

No, I agree with you. I think that's part of the formula. I think part of the formula is also, does it counter, like you said, veget vegetables are healthy for me, and they're saying don't eat vegetables.

[Doug]

I knew they were lying crammed into us growing up. You have to have this.

[Sal DeStefano]

But I think what I'm, you know, what I'm also saying is also true that like if you eat it, if you are one of those people, that a keto diet really helps you because the ketones had some really incredible effects on your central nervous system. It really helped with blood sugar issues or gut inflammation because you're really intolerant to grains and starches for whatever reason, you haven't identified what it is you're going to preach. You're going to preach about this. Like this is like this has changed your life. I think the more extreme diets tend to have those proponents, like if you talk crap about the carnivore diet online, you are going to get a group of people who are going to argue tooth and nail with you because it changed our life.

[Adam Schaefer]

I mean, it probably did what you, what you are arguing or making. The point of which I agree too, is this is the religious part of diets. And you know this about, this is how people are. If you take somebody who had a up life and came from all kinds of rough stuff and they've just, just keep, they keep running into bad stuff. Bad stuff. And that person finds religion.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah.

[Adam Schaefer]

And it changes their life. They become the biggest advocates.

[Sal DeStefano]

Anything, Anything you do.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah. And so whatever, whatever doctrine, religion or thing they found that did that for them, there is no telling that person that it wasn't that. Because for most their life, X, Y and Z happened. That was tragic, awful, all these things. They, they then adopted this, this way of thinking and now it's radically changed them and they will, they will fight for it.

[Sal DeStefano]

You know what got me on this thought process? I don't know if you guys have seen this article that's going around. There was a man that got treated for hypercholestemia. And the way he knew this, he went on a carnivore diet. So he ate nothing but meat. His body produced, by the way, there's a polymorphism. So not common. But some people do this where they just produce a lot of cholesterol. And these people many times need to be on medications and they definitely need to change their diet. They just don't react well to saturated fats or fats in general. And it can cause problems. This guy was creating so much cholesterol that yellow nodules of cholesterol were coming out of his pores. Yeah, you can look it up, Doug. Maybe look up.

[Adam Schaefer]

That's a thing.

[Sal DeStefano]

Carnivore Diet. And he went to the doctor. You'll see pictures of his hands. He went to the doctor, trying to figure out what's happening. And it's literally, his body was producing so much that it was coming out.

[Doug]

It'll just squeeze him.

[Sal DeStefano]

It's like, what a terrible commercial for Carnivore Diet, by the way.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

It's so rare. This is so rare. This doesn't happen by The Carnivore Diet's not healthy for most people, but it won't do this to you. But there are those rare individuals that this can happen.

[Adam Schaefer]

You are saying something right now that it can't help. I feel like I'm picturing what this would look like.

[Doug]

Yeah, it reminds me of that, like, Play doh set up.

[Adam Schaefer]

Hey, listen, so this weekend he's a Play doh. This weekend it was just Max and I, right? And one of his school projects is he has to count, like, a hundred, like, popcorn kernels, 100 cotton balls, a hundred of something. And then we put them in a bag over here, and.

[Sal DeStefano]

Oh, there it is right there. See the guy's hands at the left?

[Adam Schaefer]

I picture something a little bit different. I'll tell you what. So this is what I pictured because of what you were just describing. So I. And I. I had never seen this before. So. Okay, I decide I'm going to do popcorn kernels with Max. But we don't have any plain popcorn kernels that you pop. We have all the pop bags pop. Secret, right? Movie theater. Have you guys ever cut open one of those and actually looked inside?

[Sal DeStefano]

Is it bad, bro?

[Doug]

No.

[Adam Schaefer]

So I go. I go, oh, we'll do 100 popcorn kernels. I'll just cut this open and pull them out. And pull them out. It is gross how thick and greasy. And, I mean, I had to. I had to get a strainer out, hot water, and just to get all.

[Sal DeStefano]

That real butter right. It's a bunch of chemicals.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yes. It smelled weird. It felt weird. It did not. It was gross. I was like, oh, my God, I want this popcorn. I eat that popcorn all the time.

[Sal DeStefano]

And I'm embarrassed. I don't know more about this, but I'm pretty sure from the little bit of that. I know because I'm not a big popcorn eater, but microwave popcorn is not great because of what they put in it to allow it to.

[Adam Schaefer]

Dude.

[Sal DeStefano]

All be in the same.

[Adam Schaefer]

I am, I. I feel embarrassed that I. I kind of, kind of knew. Like I kind of knew. I didn't think it was. I would. By no means do I think like this is a health food. You know what I'm saying? Like I knew I was enjoying, but when I opened it up and actually had to clean.

[Sal DeStefano]

This is one of your remnants of your old bodybuilding lifestyle, right? Yes. Low calorie snack.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yes. Yeah. And I had to like not to throw my wife under the bus, but that's like her favorite like cheat or snack is popcorn. And so it's. It's heavily consumed at my house. And yes, it's not the healthy kind. It's movie theater popcorn butter type thing. That's like a treat that for her and I watching a movie. But I tell you what, after opening it up and cleaning it off like what I had, it was disgusting.

[Sal DeStefano]

We used to do all the time. We didn't do the. When I was a kid, we never got microwave popcorn.

[Adam Schaefer]

No, we popped it regular. And then you did your own butter and salt.

[Sal DeStefano]

No, we didn't even do that. So we used to use. We used to. Well, my mom. Well, okay, we did that too. But then later my mom bought Jiffy Pop, the one you put on the stove. You go like this and it makes the big silver dough mushroom.

[Doug]

Silver.

[Sal DeStefano]

But yeah, if you make your own popcorn in an air popper and then add, you know, your own butter stuff.

[Adam Schaefer]

I'm doing that going forward. I literally.

[Sal DeStefano]

Poppers are cheap too. Your kid will love it. He'll love watching the popcorn fly out of it.

[Adam Schaefer]

And you don't even need that. You could do in a big pot. That's how we used to do it.

[Sal DeStefano]

And just throw butter in there?

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah, you literally just do it in one of those big pots with a lid and just throw it in there and you just. The bottom of it a little bit. A little bit of oil or something in there and it'll. It'll work. But after seeing what was inside that bag and it doesn't even. It doesn't smell or look like butter. It's like this gross margarine looking thing that.

[Doug]

Yeah, my mom ate so much of that growing up. I just, I'm turned off by it. I don't eat any of.

[Sal DeStefano]

Look at the ingredients. They pull up like one of the most pop secret.

[Adam Schaefer]

I'm curious.

[Sal DeStefano]

Microwave popcorn ingredients. And let's just look at the ingredients. I don't know about enough about this.

[Doug]

I know hydrogenous oil and all that stuff.

[Sal DeStefano]

Well, it's hydrogenated hydrogen. It's androgynous.

[Doug]

It's androgynous. It doesn't really know.

[Sal DeStefano]

It looks like David Bowie.

[Adam Schaefer]

You're gonna ruin my wife's day right here. Because this is her thing right now.

[Doug]

What does this taste so hydrogenous?

[Sal DeStefano]

It tastes male or female? It's androgynous.

[Adam Schaefer]

Why Doug's looking that up. I got more fitness news for you guys.

[Justin Andrews]

Oh yeah, I got it here.

[Sal DeStefano]

Let's read the ingredients.

[Justin Andrews]

It's actually not as bad as I thought it was going to be.

[Sal DeStefano]

Okay.

[Justin Andrews]

Whole grain popcorn, palm oil, salt, natural and artificial flavor.

[Sal DeStefano]

Well, that's where you just, that's where you category.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

What is that when they say that?

[Justin Andrews]

It's a good question.

[Adam Schaefer]

Is it pop secret? You're looking at.

[Justin Andrews]

I'm pop Secret.

[Adam Schaefer]

That's the brand. Is it movie theater butter?

[Justin Andrews]

They call it just butter. So I don't know if it's movie theater.

[Adam Schaefer]

I do the extra movie theater.

[Doug]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

They add the extra hydrogenated oils. Other than that though, it's a paprika extract, annatto extract, ascorbic acid.

[Doug]

So Mr.

[Justin Andrews]

I don't know, it's not nothing too horrible, I guess. Palm oil is questionable.

[Sal DeStefano]

I think no pomo is. All right.

[Justin Andrews]

Well, it depends on how it's been processed.

[Sal DeStefano]

The source. Right? Yeah. Because you could kill the killerangutans. Is that what it is? Yeah, I don't know.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah, palm oil.

[Sal DeStefano]

There's like this big push to not use it because it hurts orangutan habitats or something like that.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah, I like the way they sell this. So 0 grams trans fat, 100 whole grain, made with non GMO corn. No. High fructose corn syrup.

[Ethan]

Yeah, yeah, they sold it.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah, I mean they do. They do sell you on its. I mean, listen, I'm guilty. It's been, been, it's been in my house for a long time, but after opening it makes me now go like, okay, you don't even. I don't even need to hear you read the ingredients for me to go. This is not good. I'm ingesting this. Yeah, I'm ingesting this. This is not good. Like you, it's like when you see those labels and you can't pronounce 60 of the words, you know, this is like. That can't be good. I'm pretty sure that's not a good thing.

[Doug]

So you know, this can't be good. That friggin skunk fumes.

[Sal DeStefano]

Oh, Bro, you smell so bad.

[Doug]

It's in my nose. Like, I. I'm listening to you guys, and literally, I can't, like, process anything because it's so annoying.

[Sal DeStefano]

So you've had the. You had the worst. You had the worst morning. So we all. We get to work at 9. You showed up at noon, not because you were late by choice. You know, first you get skunked, right? In the morning.

[Doug]

Yeah. So we woke up, and I was getting the kids ready, and the dog went out to do his business. He comes back, and I was actually on the toilet. And I guess I'll just reveal all this. All this went down. I was on there, and then all of a sudden, like, you know, my dog comes in and just like. Like, he does. He invades my privacy and then takes off. And I think he actually rubbed up against, like, my leg and my arm, and I was just kind of doing my thing, and I just. Oh, my God. Like, it. It smelled almost like an electrical fire, though, first, so I was like, oh, this is weird. And then Courtney's like, oh, freaking out. I think something is wrong. Like, there's. It smells like an electrical fire. Let's go. So up real quick. And we're checking everywhere around the house and looking and couldn't figure it out. And it just. The smell just got worse. And it was concentrated in this one area of, like, the corner of the hallway. And so I'm pretty sure, like, the dog, you know, rubbed himself against the walls and kind of, like, into the carpet. And, oh, my God, it was so strong. And it got worse and worse and worse. I'm opening all the windows in the house. And then.

[Sal DeStefano]

When did you figure out it was a skunk?

[Doug]

I. I went outside, and then I was like, oh, it's out here, too. And I'm like, okay, wait a minute. This is probably an animal. I thought dead animal. And then, because it's not like if you smelled skunk before, like, you know, immediately, like, that's skunk. Like, but it was like, it kind of, like, progressed into, into, like, crazy skunk smell.

[Sal DeStefano]

So anyways, and that was what, 6:00am.

[Doug]

It was probably like, 6:30. At 6:30 or 7. And so that was the start. And then the kids went to school, and apparently Everett had to come home because, like, the whole class was like, no, we can't. Because I think the dog went in and, like, laid on his bed while he was getting ready. Just smothered him with. With this disgusting toxic fumes. Yeah. And so I got in my car and I'M like going to work and I'm on 17. And you know, lo and behold, I guess there's this dump truck that caught fire and everything. All this TR dash in the back of the dump truck caught fire, spilled all over the road and like closed both lanes and then it took forever to open one lane.

[Adam Schaefer]

What do you think happened? Do you think the fire, like, he looked in his rearview mirror, saw it catching fire, then dumped it intentionally because he didn't want the whole truck to catch up?

[Doug]

I think so that's how that has.

[Adam Schaefer]

To be what happened. That's one thing that makes sense to me.

[Doug]

Yeah.

[Adam Schaefer]

Like somebody must have a picture.

[Doug]

Like somebody saying, yeah, you sent.

[Adam Schaefer]

I saw it. And it's like you were stuck on.

[Sal DeStefano]

That free for four hours.

[Doug]

Four hours.

[Sal DeStefano]

That's a 30 minute drive.

[Doug]

And there's all these side roads. And so I anticipated maybe I'll do the side roads. But like, you look and it's just as.

[Sal DeStefano]

Everybody.

[Doug]

Everybody had that idea and it just. I had nowhere to go.

[Sal DeStefano]

Now why.

[Doug]

So why smell?

[Sal DeStefano]

Is it. Is this true, Justin? You know, I don't know this, right. Because I've always thought, like, why don't they make another route from, you know, San Jose to the Santa Cruz area? There's only 17. Yeah. They call it the highway from hell because it's. There's no escape. There's very little exits, it's windy, it often gets jacked or whatever.

[Doug]

Yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

But it's because people in Santa Cruz oppose it.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah.

[Doug]

I think they actually, yeah. Lobbied against it because I think there was a move to.

[Sal DeStefano]

They just don't want people moving there like crazy. Yeah.

[Adam Schaefer]

Their idea is it pisses enough people off that aren't gonna want to live there. You know what I'm saying? Enough people experience that they're like, I ain't gonna live here.

[Doug]

It's like once or twice a year. But it really like, you're screwed if.

[Sal DeStefano]

You voted caught in it, you voted to not have built.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Doug]

You've seen Jose, people, we could do without you.

[Sal DeStefano]

You guys are different over there.

[Adam Schaefer]

And then he walked in here. I smelt him right away. Surprise. Come on, really? We got to deal with that?

[Sal DeStefano]

Used to. Now I don't smell anymore. Is it still there?

[Doug]

Come over here, dude.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah, it's not as bad as it was. No, listen, the news I was bringing up the. I think this is interesting with F45 just partnered with. I think Dr. B is the name of the company. It's like a. A telehealth medicine type Company that actually specializes in GLP1s. Oh, yeah. Interesting. Right? But talk about the wrong group of people.

[Sal DeStefano]

Oh, my God.

[Adam Schaefer]

That's exactly what I thought right away.

[Sal DeStefano]

What are they gonna call the program Combo? Yeah. Oh, yeah.

[Adam Schaefer]

Exactly. Exactly what I thought. Imagine. I mean, this is going to be really interesting. The, the repercussions that we're going to see from this glp.

[Sal DeStefano]

There was a, there was this. I don't know if it was a celebrity, kind of went viral on social media because she's, she was going after the company that sells. I don't remember which one it was. I don't know if it was wegovia one of those because she was young, obese, went on it, lost lots of weight, went back. Now you are at the beginning stages of osteoporosis. And now here's, here's why that happened for Everybody listening. The GLP1 doesn't cause that. GLP1 just makes you eat very little.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

And if you just, if you go from being obese to eating very low calorie and you don't strength train and you don't keep your protein intake nourished Regardless of GLP1, forget Jailpoint. You just did that on your own. You would have muscle loss. And if you lose muscle, you also tend to lose bone density. Okay. They go kind of hand in hand. That's what happened. It's not the GLP one. It was that. So I don't know what kind of case she's going to have, but I think what we're going to see, and we've talked about this is for a lot of people, you're going to trade one problem for another.

[Doug]

Yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

They're gonna go, I'm not obese anymore.

[Doug]

Yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

But now my, my, I have little muscle and I'm weak and I have low poor mobility or whatever.

[Doug]

You know, misconception that they're gonna get like that last few percentages of body fat off from the GLP1, like, it's just, it's crazy to me. It's not, that's not like the point. The point is like, if you're obese and you need, and you need to change your eating habits and, and start creating better habits with this, not to just shave off a little bit of body fat.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah. I'm, I'm, I'm toggling back and forth now. I know originally I came out and felt pretty strongly that this was going to be net positive that we're going to have. It's going at. Obesity is such A problem that so many people are going to, we're going to see so much positive health conditions in the, in the right direction just simply by America losing some weight. What I'm worried about when I see like companies like F45 partnering with GLP1s and stuff like that. I'm, we're already not fans of that style of training for the average person. And, and, and that's because it's a circuit based type of training. It's like cardio and so.

[Sal DeStefano]

Which is fine but it's so intensity based.

[Doug]

If you combine, it's not a muscle.

[Sal DeStefano]

Building protocol, you combine it with a really low.

[Adam Schaefer]

It's a terrible recipe for an 800 calorie person.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yes.

[Adam Schaefer]

And the average person that's not getting coaching, that's not getting support. Listen, when we had that group of 50 GLP1 clients that we took through, that was one of the, was a great opportunity for us to get insight on all different types of people. The most common thing was people under eating for such a long time that they had to reverse. Yeah. Plateau hard and they had to reverse diet. Many of them were down in the thousand calorie range. If you take that client, a couple.

[Sal DeStefano]

Of them were like would race marathons.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yes.

[Sal DeStefano]

Plateau so hard.

[Adam Schaefer]

Exactly. And you take that person and they do high intensity type of classes and training. It is a recipe for more muscle loss and a slower metabolism and so.

[Sal DeStefano]

And a hard plateau where you're stuck. Like think about this. Like okay, you have, let's say you have £70 to lose, right. So it puts you in the obese category. You go into GLP1. You don't, you don't aim for more protein intake. You don't strength train. You just go beat yourself up in a high intensity class. You're gonna lose, you know, 30, 40 pounds really quick. And then what's gonna happen is you're gonna hit this really hard plateau and your calories are gonna be really low. So Now I'm eating 1200 calories, I'm beating myself up. If you can continue by the way. Cause you probably feel like crap. But let's say you can continue. Where do you go? What do I do now? Do I go down to. Do I up my dose and cut my cow? Now I'm starting to dip into essential proteins, essential fats and I'm gonna have other problems. So it's not, it's a, it's part of the solution. I think GLP1s, if used properly can definitely be huge for a lot of people.

[Adam Schaefer]

Oh I mean I still part of a protocol. I still stand by that they can be amazing for somebody. But what I'm getting, starting to get worried about is originally I felt strongly it'd be a net positive. But if we keep seeing groups, groups like F45, the orange theory, if they start adopting these GLP1s and obviously I know why they're doing it, it's a smart, I mean Weight watchers did it too. It's a smart business play. And so if they start adopting it with the, the, the, their modality of training, I mean it's the next worst thing that's going to happen is like the biggest marathon company decides to partner with the GLP1. I mean, I mean seriously, like that's, I know that's an extreme analogy, but that's what's going on here. And like you, you start giving like marathon runners, GLP1s, it's not going to be a recipe for success. It's going to put people in a very unhealthy place. And so that worries me a little bit that you know, or it means we have a lot of work cut out for us to counter the information out there that people are getting about these GLP1s now.

[Sal DeStefano]

All right, speaking of, you know, fitness and transit, like, stuff like that, it's not often that I will completely shift my paradigm on something in fitness just because I've been doing this for so long. I've had all those shifts already, but I had one this morning. I had one this morning working out in the gym. There was a commercial on TV for a @ home piece of exercise equipment that I would make fun of so hard back in the day. But now I can see some actual legit value.

[Adam Schaefer]

What is it?

[Sal DeStefano]

Okay, when I tell you guys what it is, I want you to guess where I'm going with it. But I know you've seen this. It's the little, it looks like a, it's like a bike pedal, but it sits on the floor. So you sit on the chair and you just pedal it. You've seen those, right? You can put on the floor in front of you pedal your feet.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

And it's like I used to make fun of that. What are you doing? Get up, go for a walk.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah. But never the study that came out about the calf raises.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yes, that's it right there. Yeah, There was a study that showed that just doing some heel raises while you're seated after you eat has a, a measurable, a decent effect on blood sugar. Your insulin sensitivity goes up Simply because you're flexing your calves.

[Doug]

Flexing.

[Sal DeStefano]

You're not even getting up and going for a walk. And I'm like, oh my God, that would work. If you buy one of these, you have, you have a desk job and you hear us on the podcast go for a 10 minute walk after you eat and it's just not possible sometimes maybe it's snowing outside or raining or maybe you got to sit at your desk. Like, I can't take a 10 minute break. I got to keep going.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

You could buy. We have no affiliation, by the way. I'm kind of sad that we don't because I think they're going to. People are going to buy them now. You could put this under your desk. They're small. Put on the floor.

[Doug]

After we do a little step ones too that people use that.

[Sal DeStefano]

Think about that. After we do 10 minutes on that.

[Adam Schaefer]

Listen, things like that.

[Sal DeStefano]

Okay, I bet. I mean that will make things like.

[Adam Schaefer]

That stupid 20 years ago for us are going to become more and more important.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah.

[Doug]

I mean we just keep so sedentary.

[Adam Schaefer]

We are so. We are so sedentary.

[Sal DeStefano]

It doesn't really point to. That's miraculous. Just how sedative.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah, that's what it is.

[Sal DeStefano]

Like a little something.

[Adam Schaefer]

The fact that studies can come out and show that calf raises are helping us. You know what I'm saying, dude? Like, we're getting that. That's how bad we're getting. We're like, just do some calf raises.

[Doug]

While you sit down and watch tv.

[Adam Schaefer]

Still. Yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

No, just lift your lip. Just lift your.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah, we're not even there. Just start with that. That's.

[Doug]

It's more hip circle.

[Adam Schaefer]

It's less a sign of how miraculous and how powerful these tools are. And it's really more of a sign like, wow, we have gotten that sedentary that even just.

[Sal DeStefano]

I'm telling you right now, if you. This is for the person who does no exercise, totally sedentary, eats whatever. And they're like, I just want to improve my health. I want to do something easy that'll actually, I'll actually notice an improvement. Health. That's easy. It's not a huge commitment. You could buy one of these things, like 100 bucks. Jug pulls them up on Amazon. 170 there. 130 there's put it at your desk since you would sit at your desk all day long. And after you eat, pedal it for 10 to 15 minutes. You'll notice an improvement. How you feel just from that alone. No, I, I do as I was watching the commercial. I used to make fun of that. You know, family members would buy them. I'm like, what are you doing? It's so dumb. Like, get up and go. No, you just. Yeah, you just do that right there and you'll have a positive.

[Adam Schaefer]

I mean, it's just, it's crazy. Wally's around the corner, bro.

[Sal DeStefano]

I know, I know.

[Adam Schaefer]

We're so, we're so close to that.

[Sal DeStefano]

Speaking of studies, I looked up studies on saffron extract. It's. It's one of the key ingredients in Organifi's happy drops formula. And I brought this up before so people don't know Happy drops is a. They're gummies. You eat them, they improve, they lift your mood. Right. That's what they're supposed to do. Main ingredient, saffron. When you look up saffron studies on depression, anxiety, it's one of the most backed natural compounds for mild to moderate forms of depression, anxiety. I found so many studies, I found a review of studies that said it has a measurable effect. So for people who feel a little blue, a little down.

[Doug]

Yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

Like it'll do it for you. And the way it works is they think it works like an ss, like, like a selective serotonin. Selective reuptake inhibitor. So it will re. It'll help increase circulating levels of serotonin.

[Adam Schaefer]

I actually, I actually overheard. I don't know if it was a functional medicine doctor or what that it was like some doctor that was getting interviewed on podcast. It was like some clip that bounced up and they were asking them, like, you know, what are like three different, you know, herbs or things that people don't know about that. And like saffron was like the number one that he said is like this, it's this amazing thing that people can take that people don't realize about it and how, how rare and how, how awesome it is for us to have it because we just don't find it anywhere else in our diet. You don't hear about it.

[Doug]

I mean, I heard it on ratatouille, his go to ingredient, you know.

[Adam Schaefer]

Oh, really?

[Doug]

Yeah.

[Adam Schaefer]

Oh, I didn't know that.

[Sal DeStefano]

But it's for, for depression. Anx libido. Some people notice libido boost from it. So I mean, great. I love, I love learning stuff like this. It's not a supplement I ever used before, which, you know, Organifi did their happy drops.

[Doug]

And of all the gummies, you feel something for sure. Like it does.

[Sal DeStefano]

You love it.

[Doug]

Elevate the mood. I took some today. Because of my crazy start and oh, my God, I mean, my legs. I'm gonna have to do some serious mobility. But. Locking up. But yeah, I was in.

[Sal DeStefano]

In a mood. How do you wash skunk smell off? Dude, I read tomato juice. Is that real? Is that true? Or do you just wear.

[Doug]

I just.

[Sal DeStefano]

Wait.

[Doug]

I'm gonna look that up because I heard that too, but I mean, I guess do a whole bath of.

[Adam Schaefer]

You might have to shave your entire body.

[Sal DeStefano]

Stop trying to get him to do that. You almost got this.

[Doug]

He's been saying that all the time.

[Sal DeStefano]

Every time. You have.

[Doug]

Works for that shit in your whole body.

[Sal DeStefano]

Oh, so. So vinegar, baking soda, hydrogen peroxide or commercial, bro. Hey, wash your body with hydrogen peroxide.

[Doug]

Cool. Yeah, just pour a bunch of.

[Adam Schaefer]

Make yourself whiter.

[Doug]

Tomorrow just translucent. Hey, guys, I don't smell anymore. I smell a little vinegary.

[Sal DeStefano]

But you know who bleached their hair in here for sure? You did.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah, I did. You did.

[Sal DeStefano]

Oh, my God.

[Doug]

The hydrogen peroxide actually bleached it. Do yourself.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah.

[Doug]

Well, you're.

[Adam Schaefer]

We used to do it in high school. Because I did it. I did it like every year from sophomore year to senior year. Every year.

[Doug]

And I've seen a picture of your Frosty, too.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah, you look like we used to.

[Adam Schaefer]

So I used to have my head shaved, and then it was like, really, really short. We would. We would all bleach our. Our heads, and then you'd let it grow out, and then you'd have the tips that were frosted, and then you just do it. I never. I never. So even though you've seen pictures of me with frosted tips. I've never frosted my tips. I've always bleached my hair. And then you just let it.

[Doug]

Grow it out.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah, that's kind of how we. That's how we would do it. Which you would.

[Sal DeStefano]

I never did anything.

[Doug]

I did it once. I. I mean, I dyed my hair a few times because I was trying to build punk rock. You know, what colors? Mainly black.

[Sal DeStefano]

Just totally jet black. Yeah, it looked like. Yeah, I never super goth. I never did anything weird in my hair. Just that one fifth grade picture. Oh, that was my mom.

[Adam Schaefer]

You definitely won.

[Sal DeStefano]

You definitely.

[Adam Schaefer]

You definitely won. You won that. Did you guys see the. The latest stuff on Tesla with the. The cars, what they're able to do now from the factory?

[Sal DeStefano]

No. Oh, they'll drive them. They'll drive to you.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yes.

[Doug]

Automatically.

[Sal DeStefano]

It'll drive to you.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yes. They're one step away from them loading themselves on the dock to come to your actual house.

[Doug]

Oh, crazy.

[Adam Schaefer]

They lead the factory on their own.

[Sal DeStefano]

Think about how much that cuts cost for Tesla. Think about how much they're just doing all that stuff.

[Doug]

Well, because you can just. Pretty soon the car's gonna be a house, right? You don't even need that's.

[Adam Schaefer]

We're this close to like ordering your car and then it like shows up at your house. Dude, how wild is that gonna be? Like, with nobody? Oh, just a car shows up in your driveway and it's like it drove itself there wild, right? Isn't that wild? I think that's so crazy.

[Sal DeStefano]

Brain FM is music and sounds that induce different brain wave states. And it's legit. It really works. In other words, if you want your brain to focus more, listen to focus. You want to meditate, listen to meditate. You want to get better sleep, listen to to sleep. It really works. Check them out. Get 30 days for free to see for yourself. Go to Brain FM. Mindpump. All right, back to the show. This segment is brought to you by trainerwebinar.com Adam and I get on. Teach trainers and coaches how to become more successful, make more money, and get their clients better results. All the webinars are free.

[Justin Andrews]

Go register trainerwebinar.com Our first caller is Nathan from Virginia.

[Sal DeStefano]

What's up, Nathan?

[Doug]

What's happening?

[Sal DeStefano]

How can we help you?

[Megan]

Hey, guys, it's awesome to be able to talk to you. So I'll get right to my question. I've been lifting on and off for about 15 years now, but I got really serious about my health in September of 2023 because of a health scare. And I was able to lose about 70 pounds. I went from 255ish to about 190, which I know doesn't come up to 70, but I know I had a little bit of muscle growth in there, so I'm talking about fat. But for the past eight to 10 months, I really haven't seen much, much muscle growth or much fat loss. And I've been doing regular electrical impedance check ins every couple of weeks and some DEXA scans and my electrical impedance seems to fluctuate and my DEXA doesn't seem to match up with my electrical impedance. So I kind of feel like I'm stuck at this impasse and I really don't know how to proceed.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah. Okay, so good. Do you know where your body fat is sitting now? Because it says you're 63197. That's, I mean, a great body weight for your Height?

[Megan]

Yeah, I'm at 14.7 according to my last impedance scale check.

[Sal DeStefano]

Okay. So what you're experiencing, Nathan, is, you know, at some point, it gets harder and harder to progress because you start to get closer and closer to, for lack of a better term, you know, genetic limits or limits on what you could do with your lifestyle. I'm assuming you're pretty strong since you've been lifting this entire time.

[Megan]

So my. My squat is about 3:50. My deadlifts at, like 4, 4:50 on a good day, but my bench is way down at, like 1:70, and I've never been able to boost that. And everything else has kind of stayed stagnant for about the past year.

[Sal DeStefano]

Okay, you're strong. You're really strong. By the way, good. Deadlifters typically don't do so well on bench. But anyway, you know, I. At this point, I think what we would want to do is we'd want to look at diet, and then we'd want to look at training, and we want to change your programming, probably. Have you been doing kind of similar programming this entire time, or have you been doing something kind of the same.

[Adam Schaefer]

For a little while through ours? What are you doing?

[Megan]

So I. I use something called RP hypertrophy, and I do mesocycles of about four to six weeks where I kind of change it up. So every four to six weeks, I change my routine based on that, and then I just follow whatever that kind of gives me.

[Sal DeStefano]

What do those changes look like when you make a change?

[Megan]

So for one mesocycle, I might go high rep, and the next mesocycle I'll go low rep or medium reps. I try to change the rep scheme up a little bit, but then I change the exercises where it just. It'll be like the same number of chest exercises, but I'll change what the exercise is every four or five weeks.

[Sal DeStefano]

Do you ever. Dramatically lower volume. Have you ever trained in a unilateral cycle or have you ever done a training cycle where the lifts are odd lifts or lifts that you're not familiar with?

[Megan]

I have been adding more lifts that I'm uncomfortable with just because I want to try new things. And I would say about six to 10 months ago, I was. I was working out six days a week, and I was doing a ton of lifts, and I heard you guys talking about training, so I actually thought that I'm gonna have been training, so I reduced down four or five days a week, and now I'm only doing about four or five exercises with Three to four sets.

[Sal DeStefano]

Okay. You're in a pretty good spot.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah, programming wise, he's doing pretty solid. I just, you have to emphasize, and you said it already, that I mean you obviously have been listening to the show. Your programming is pretty good. You probably have taken a lot of advice that we talk about nutritionally, just chasing whole foods, doing those things. And this is a perfect example of just that alone doing those things. You could see as incredible results as you have have. You are now at the next level to this right. Of consistency with the diet to in manipulating intensity in the training. So I would really want to peer into like what you've done, like where you at calories and macros and how consistent are you with like tracking and measuring and paying attention to that stuff.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yep.

[Megan]

I track my calories every single day. To the annoyance of my girlfriend. I. I'm focused on entering them more than eating my food calories. Right Now I'm at 2196 with 80, 187 protein, 68 fat and 209 grams of carbs. But that's because I'm in a cut right now. And with my nutritionist, I was up to 3, 200 after my initial cut because she got worried about metabolism.

[Adam Schaefer]

Okay. Yeah, you're doing good, right?

[Sal DeStefano]

You're doing really good. Yeah. What I would do if you were my client and you had questions, I would radically change your programming. Yeah, I mean I would change it.

[Adam Schaefer]

Old timey or Symmetry. One of the that Map symmetry.

[Sal DeStefano]

Map Strong or Maps Old Time would really shake things up. Each program would provide you with something completely different. And then going back to your old lifts, you would see a little bit of a decline in some of those old lifts because you weren't practicing them. But then what tends to happen is you kind of slingshot past some of your old PRs. So I think radically changing your routine would be where I would go. Those are the three programs I would advise. Have you done a cycle of almost entirely unilateral training? Because experienced lifters tend to do really well when they do like a three month cycle of that.

[Megan]

No, I've never done anything like that.

[Adam Schaefer]

Let's do symmetry.

[Sal DeStefano]

Let's do map symmetry.

[Adam Schaefer]

Let's do symmetry. And then after that run into strong or old time. And I think that combo right there, the next six months you're going to be set up pretty nice.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah. And symmetry is going to be very different from what you're used to. It'll probably highlight some imbalances, some stability issues. And then as those Strengthen, you'll go back to at the end of symmetry. The last phase is a very traditional kind of five by five type program. And you should see towards the end of that some real good strength gains.

[Megan]

Awesome. I would love that.

[Sal DeStefano]

All right.

[Adam Schaefer]

All in all, though, Nathan just wanted. You're doing a really good job, dude. I mean, everything from programming nutritionally, I mean, even what you cycle, what you got, your metabolism up to your cut recognizing, you don't want to stay there too long. Oh. I mean, this is a perfect example of like, this is why I think maintaining and everybody's going to be a little bit different. But like maintaining that 11 to 14 body fat has always been really easy for me. So long as I make good choices, I'm training. It's like pretty easy getting to the next level if I want to get shredded 10 below. It does take this next level of, you know, paying attention and diet manipulation and programming manipulation, like that's where the next level is for you. But all in all, you've done an incredible job from what, what we've. You've told us so far.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah, Your strength, your height, what you're doing with your diet, as active as you are, like you're kicking butt. And you, you're. What's going to happen now, from now to the rest of your life is you're going to see when you change things the right way, incremental changes. You're not going to see these huge changes like you did when you first got started. But I mean, let's just let me put in perspective maintaining where you were, which is not what you want to do. But let's just say you kept this for the next 20 years, like you're kicking everybody's ass. You're doing a great job. So, I mean, and you have such great awareness of what you're doing. So I think really shaking things up is really the next, the next step.

[Adam Schaefer]

How are, how are all your other. You said you had a health scare. You didn't really tell us what it was. How are all the other health markers and for you, Are you, are you monitoring that? Have you had a checkup rate lately? How's testosterone levels? Have you checked all that stuff?

[Megan]

Yeah, so I did a full hormone blood panel, all kinds of that kind of stuff. And I actually am on inflomathan right now because my testosterone was significantly low.

[Adam Schaefer]

Okay.

[Megan]

And that, that's been about a year now.

[Adam Schaefer]

Okay.

[Sal DeStefano]

Okay. And you just stay on it for a year.

[Megan]

I'm still on it, but it's been about A year that I've been on.

[Sal DeStefano]

And a while on it. It's brought you up to good levels?

[Megan]

Yeah, I'm up at about 700 now.

[Sal DeStefano]

Okay. And you're not going to go on TRT, I'm assuming because you want to maintain fertility or.

[Megan]

No, I just don't like taking a ton of supplements, but because my testosterone was so low, that was kind of something that I was willing to. To go with. And so instead of doing TRT and CloneCFAM was suggested as kind of a. Hey, try this first.

[Adam Schaefer]

What about HCG for him?

[Sal DeStefano]

They'll go with enclomiphene before. They'll go with each, especially if it's working for them. Really? Yeah. But, hey, you know, you're. You're 36, right? Yes, sir. Yeah. You started getting in your 40s. It'll probably be. TRT is probably what you're going to want to do. And that's. I mean, enclomiphene's great. Testosterone, it's another level. It's just. You start to see different, you know, results from that.

[Adam Schaefer]

But yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah, you're doing great, man.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yep.

[Megan]

Awesome. Thanks, guys. That really means a lot.

[Sal DeStefano]

Thank you, Nathan.

[Adam Schaefer]

Well, hey, by the way, we'll send that over to you. Did we tell you that Doug will send over symmetry to you?

[Megan]

No, thank you. I. I appreciate it.

[Sal DeStefano]

You got it? Yeah. Great.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah, no, he's doing good. I mean, this is. This is where the next level gets hard, I think. And it's good for people to hear this because sometimes your expectations get skewed. Right. You start on this, maybe you've listened to the show, all a sudden you. You apply all things we're talking about. You see these huge results for a year, and then all of a sudden it dramatically slows down and you think maybe you're doing something wrong. It's like, no, you're not doing anything wrong. You just.

[Sal DeStefano]

You just can't infinitely progress.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yes.

[Sal DeStefano]

Doesn't work that way.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah. And you've got. He's already got the big rocks handled. And he. And he made the big gains in that first year already. And now it'll be incremental.

[Doug]

Yeah. A lot more concentrated effort.

[Justin Andrews]

Our next caller is Megan from Canada.

[Sal DeStefano]

Hi, Megan. How can we help you?

[Doug]

Morning.

[Sal DeStefano]

Hey, guys.

[Zoe]

How are you?

[Adam Schaefer]

How you doing?

[Doug]

How are you?

[Zoe]

Good. So thank you for taking my question. I always hear you guys talk about the importance of good sleep for optimum health, muscle gain, and recovery. I've suffered from undiagnosed chronic fatigue for well over 15 years. Just about 20 years now, actually. I've always had good sleep. Lately it's been a little bit less than my normal, but still getting at least six to eight hours a night. So I'm wondering if, although I get good sleep, maybe my body doesn't understand or feel like it does, as it does not matter how much or how little sleep I do get, I'm always permanently exhausted. I feel like I do everything I should. I eat clean Whole Foods 85, 95% of the time. I weight train, I walk my dog twice a day, and that's the extent of my cardio. I take care of myself better than most people I know, yet I'm constantly hurting, sore, injured, tired. I don't know what else I'm supposed to do. My fatigue, aches and pains hold me back a lot from training and just overall living a happy life. So can my body think that it's getting. It isn't getting the proper rest and in turn feeling like it has to stay in survival mode? And could it be affecting my muscle gain, my muscle and strength gains?

[Adam Schaefer]

Have you got any, have you got a blood panel? Have you had someone check all hormones, all blood, all nutrients, see if we're lacking in anything?

[Zoe]

Yeah, I've been seeing so many doctors and naturopaths and whatever I can see since I was 15 and I'm 34. I got my hormones checked. I did some testing with Dr. Cabral. Cabral. Because of you guys, and nothing has came back really, like in the red or anything, so.

[Doug]

So I'm assuming sleep test, like apnea, and all that is, is checked off.

[Zoe]

Sorry, I couldn't hear that.

[Doug]

Did you do an actual sleep test where they were?

[Sal DeStefano]

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, I, I, yeah.

[Zoe]

I did that about. Sorry, I did that about 10 years ago or so. So I'm waiting for a referral from my doctor to get another one just to see if anything's changed, but yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

Okay, so I'm assuming you did. You went through Kerbal, so they tested you for any toxicities, heavy metal mold. Those would be the first places I would look. Okay. Have you ever been tested for Lyme disease? Have you ever. Do you remember ever getting a tick bite or anything like that?

[Zoe]

So I have no recollection of a tick. My mom doesn't remember anything. I did get tested again about 10 years ago, seven years ago through a testing company in Germany and it did come back positive. This was through my natural path, but then it's since kind of been disproven. It's kind of one of those things where I don't know who to believe, because everything kind of tells a different story.

[Sal DeStefano]

Your symptoms sound either autoimmune or an underlying infection of some sort, like Lyme. So what I would do is I would get tested again for Lyme. I would also look at peptides for mitochondrial dysfunction. So there is a peptide called SS31 that has been used to treat chronic fatigue and has had some success with some individuals. Okay, okay. And you can get this through. I know our [e-mail] will use SS31. And if you look at the anecdotes and the reviews, some people find a lot of success with this. And what this does is it helps restore mitochondrial dysfunction. So if you have some mitochondrial dysfunction, you're gonna feel. The symptoms will feel a lot like what you're feeling. Just like no matter what I do, I just feel fatigue because your body's not able to produce the energy like it should. And the fact that you've had it since you were 15 makes me want to lean in that direction. Either Lyme disease or that. First places I would look are mold and heavy metal toxicity. But since you've tested those and you've come out okay, then I would look at Lyme disease, and I would look at, you know, peptides to help. There's really no way to test. Well, there are, but they're not really, like, great ways to test mitochondrial dysfunction. SS31, people who are perfectly healthy will use it as well for health, you know, benefits. But people with chronic fatigue, you can look this up and just kind of do some of your own reading online. I don't remember what the brand name of it is. Maybe Doug can look it up. But I mean, nonetheless, the actual name of it is hormones.

[Adam Schaefer]

If you tell them that Sal pointed you in that direction, we'll make sure they take care.

[Doug]

What about MOT C, or is that different?

[Sal DeStefano]

MOT C might be another one, although that one has been blocked by the fda. So that was.

[Adam Schaefer]

What about pairing that with red light therapy? What if she was doing the two of those?

[Sal DeStefano]

Red light therapy would benefit. But if there's a. If there's a dysfunction at the mitochondria, then, you know, you would want to look at SS31. I think it's SS31 if I'm not mistake. Is that it, Doug? Okay.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yes.

[Sal DeStefano]

What's the brand name? Alama pride or something like that? Does it say okay? But yeah, if you go mphormones.com and say, hey, I was on the podcast, the guys pointed me in this direction. I have chronic fatigue syndrome. Don't know what's going on. Then they can recommend that to you. Okay. So you can look it up under the brand name or just the peptide itself, but I would get Lyme tested again. Lyme is interesting. It hides.

[Doug]

Oh, yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

So there are people who will get tested for Lyme. Negative, negative, Negative. Oh, it's positive. And then there's a lot of different attempts or ways to try to treat Lyme. Some can be successful for some people, but for others can be very difficult.

[Doug]

Sticks around for a long time.

[Sal DeStefano]

And it could stick around for a long time. Yeah. So. So I would still get tested for that just to. Just. Just to see again. Okay. Yeah, I'd love to hear.

[Adam Schaefer]

Love to hear back from you, Megan.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah. Give us a.

[Adam Schaefer]

Every time we have somebody like this, I always want to get to the bottom of it with you.

[Sal DeStefano]

100. Yeah. Because it's been happening for so long. I don't think it's lack of sleep.

[Doug]

Yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

I don't think it's your diet. I don't think it's your training. It sounds like you've kind of done.

[Doug]

All the big covering all the main things, what you've said to us.

[Sal DeStefano]

So.

[Doug]

Yeah, I think that's why we're just like trying to figure out the diagnosis part.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah. Yep.

[Zoe]

Yeah. I've definitely exhausted a lot of resources and time trying to figure everything out. And I always thought I was kind of an over trainer before listening to you guys. But like, for the past three years, I've had a job that I couldn't train a lot. You know, I worked in the field and I was running heavy equipment, so I wasn't really able to work out all the time. So that kind of, to me disproved kind of that idea. But yeah, I did just order a red light too. So, like the joov red light. So should have that this week, hopefully to play around with.

[Sal DeStefano]

But have you been also tested, I'm sure you have, for the MTHFR gene to see if you have methylation issues?

[Zoe]

Not that I can remember. Nope.

[Sal DeStefano]

Okay, so a couple supplements you can look into. One of them is called Sam, E S A M and then the letter E dash letter E. Creatine. You probably already take creatine because you listen to us, creatine's another one. And then methylated B vitamins. So people who have methylation issues will have issues utilizing B vitamins, and it won't necessarily show up. Up on a test unless you get tested for this particular gene. And I mean, if you could test for it or you could just, you know. Methylated B vitamin supplements are cheap, Sami. Relatively cheap. Start taking them. See if you notice a difference. You know, they're not. It's not. It wouldn't put you back that much at all. It's like 40 bucks for. I think Sami. And methylated B vitamins are even less.

[Zoe]

Okay, yeah, I'll definitely look into that because I don't believe so. I've done so much, it's hard to remember it all. But that doesn't sound familiar, so I'll definitely look into that.

[Sal DeStefano]

Will you be able to follow up with us, too?

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah, I want to. Please stay in touch with us as we go through this.

[Zoe]

Yeah, that'd be great. I would love to. I'm desperate to try to figure this out. It's a daily struggle, so.

[Adam Schaefer]

I can only imagine. I can only imagine. Well, together we'll figure this out, Megan.

[Zoe]

Okay. And like I did, just buy your guys maps. 15 playing a little bit with that.

[Sal DeStefano]

Perfect.

[Adam Schaefer]

That's a program for what you're going through.

[Sal DeStefano]

Perfect.

[Zoe]

Yeah. Okay, I'll keep doing. I'll keep doing that then.

[Sal DeStefano]

Okay.

[Zoe]

And then you guys. I mean, I live on coffee, even though it doesn't really do a whole lot, I find, but. Yeah, I know you guys talk a lot about that. Is that a problem?

[Sal DeStefano]

Could be how much coffee you're having a day.

[Zoe]

Like four to six cups.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah. I mean, it's a lot. You know that crazy, though. I would.

[Doug]

Sounds like me.

[Sal DeStefano]

You can. Me. You can experiment with it. But here's the thing. If there's an underlying issue that's causing chronic fatigue, the coffee may be just keeping you going.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

But you could experiment with it and go off and see if after a week you start to feel better. Because caffeine can have an interesting inverse effect when people have a lot.

[Adam Schaefer]

If you do that, use the organifi. Red juice. I swear that makes a huge difference.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah, just. Just for the side effects. Yeah.

[Adam Schaefer]

If you decided to pull back every cup of coffee, you pull back, switch that with a red juice drink, and that'll. That'll help mitigate the feelings. I. I think we all agree it's something else, though. I think we think it's something else. That's not a crazy, absurd scene. Amount of caffeine, maybe the average person, they might think it's a lot, but it's not.

[Zoe]

Yeah, it's. It's. I usually stop drinking it by 3:00, so. That, you know, I can make sure I sleep. But would that make sense as to why I always, like, have just random pains? Like, it's just feels like no matter what I do, if I look the wrong way or walk too much, like, I just. Something's always freaking hurting, and it's frustrating.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah, that. That. That's. That's makes me feel. That's why I said test for Lyme. Because Lyme can cause joint pain, inflammation. It could cause a lot of really strange symptoms as well, and then, of course, fatigue. That's, like, the most common symptom of Lyme disease. Yeah.

[Zoe]

Okay. Okay. I'll definitely look back into that.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah. Did you spend a lot of time in the woods and hiking and stuff like that as a kid?

[Zoe]

I mean, I wouldn't say any more than anybody else. Like, we'd go camping here and there, playing outside like a normal kid back in the 90s. But other than that.

[Sal DeStefano]

Okay.

[Zoe]

No.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah. Follow up with us. I want to hear what happens.

[Zoe]

Okay.

[Sal DeStefano]

All right.

[Adam Schaefer]

All right, Megan.

[Sal DeStefano]

Thank you.

[Zoe]

Thank you so much, guys.

[Sal DeStefano]

Got it. You ever. You ever trained somebody?

[Adam Schaefer]

I had a client that was. And it's so challenging. It's so inconsistent. She'd come in some days.

[Sal DeStefano]

Exactly.

[Adam Schaefer]

Be totally fine like a normal client. And then other days, we couldn't do, like, hard. Hardly anything.

[Doug]

And then everything hurts.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yes. Yes. Brutal. Interesting. You don't think that Cabral's testing would. Would highlight that you don't lime.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah.

[Doug]

And it has a very specific test.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah, but wouldn't it. Wouldn't it. Wouldn't there be some downstream effects so that they would see, you know?

[Sal DeStefano]

Not necessarily. I mean, you have to look for it specific, even if you look for it.

[Adam Schaefer]

Well, it does seem. Sometimes it does sound interesting that she said she tested positive for it.

[Sal DeStefano]

That's right.

[Adam Schaefer]

In the past.

[Doug]

And then it just proved it.

[Adam Schaefer]

Well, disprove it to her, probably. Someone said. Yeah, someone said that. Oh, it's. You don't have it.

[Sal DeStefano]

I have limited knowledge online only because I have a family member who got it. And she was perfectly fine. Suddenly had. It was the strangest thing, like pain, chronic fatigue, and insatiable appetite. Yeah, insatiable. She would. Said it was like, the only thing she. And it was. It was just strange. And she gained all this weight and all this testing, and they finally came out and said, oh, you have Lyme, but Lyme can hide. You could test for it, come back negative. So there's like. But there are ways now to do temporary.

[Doug]

Isn't mono like, on Some level, but it's temporary. It's not like a chronic issue.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah, most of us, every, almost everybody has had the infection that causes monobio and then you know, that goes away. It goes away and then mitochondrial dysfunction, you know, the SS31 might even, even if she has Lyme might help because the Lyme may cause mitochondrial dysfunction as well. But yeah, it's tough one.

[Justin Andrews]

Our next caller is Zoe from New York.

[Sal DeStefano]

What's up, Zoe?

[Adam Schaefer]

How you doing, Zoe?

[Sal DeStefano]

Hey.

[Adam Schaefer]

Hello.

[Unknown]

This is so weird. Hi guys. So I'm just going to read my question so I stay on track here.

[Sal DeStefano]

Okay.

[Unknown]

So I'm, my name is Zoe Brady. I'm 18 years old. I'm a personal trainer and a competitive powerlifter. I've been working out for about five years and powerlifting for around a year. My best lifts for squat is 260 pounds, benches 160 and my deadlift is 290, almost 300. So my question is about my weekly workout split. At the moment I do deadlifts or deadlift type workouts on Monday. I bench on Tuesday. I either rest or do some light cardio on Wednesday. I do squats on Thursdays, shoulders on Fridays. And I feel like this works out pretty well for me. However, I know as a trainer I'm supposed to be hitting each muscle group at least twice a week for best results. However, I feel like with powerlifting it feels very hard to do that because I'm still recovering from that last workout. So it feels hard to hit that same muscle group again. Um, and it just feels like there's not enough time in between. So that's really just my question is how am I supposed to get the best results but still have enough recovery time as well?

[Adam Schaefer]

This is where powerlifting and programming is really, really important. Have you any chance you've ran Maps Power Lift yet?

[Unknown]

I haven't. I've done Maps anabolic twice and that's about it, I think.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah. So you're modifying intensity.

[Sal DeStefano]

Okay. I just get a say that you're a total gem 18 years old. First of all, you're strong as hell.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

When you're. When we saw your name up there, I was like, is that a young man or woman who's lifting that much? It's got to be a guy. You are strong. You are really, really strong. You got a crazy career ahead of you. You know, the good thing about powerlifting is the numbers on the bar are going to tell you whether or not it's working. Forget the, you know, oh, you got to Train a body part twice a week for. For. Powerlifting's very different. I know power lifters who train lifts twice a week, but they don't train heavy twice a week. They'll bench once heavy. Once is, you know, dynamic, you know, effort or speed or whatever. I think you're doing perfectly fine. You can find. You could try our program, see how it works. The thing I would consider for you, if you want to continue powerlifting and I think you have a career ahead of you for sure, would be to make sure you avoid any overuse injuries, make sure you work in different planes of movement and work on mobility, because as you get stronger, risk of injury starts to go up. Especially if you're always constantly training that, that you know that that same plane of motion.

[Doug]

Run a cycle too of a unilateral training for sure. I mean, this is just like any power lifter. We try to at least bridge that programming at some point with like our symmetry program where at least then we can kind of address, you know, any underlying imbalance, any underlying compensation there. But yeah, I'm with. So I think, you know, if it's working, if it's, if, if your programming is producing results, you know, that's something that you should consider.

[Unknown]

100 and I am trying to do some more mobility. I recently, I'm signed up for every Sunday. I do yoga with my mom, actually. So that's definitely a way for me to just make sure I do that. Just because I'm so into powerlifting, it's sometimes hard to make time for that other stuff that I know it's important for me. So I'm definitely trying to work on that as well.

[Sal DeStefano]

So when you, when you. And how long have you been competing?

[Unknown]

Just around a year, maybe a year and a half now.

[Sal DeStefano]

How are you doing?

[Unknown]

What was that?

[Sal DeStefano]

How do you do in your competition?

[Unknown]

Oh, so the recent competitions that I've been to, there hasn't been a whole lot of people in my age group category and body weight category. So usually it's just me against one other girl. Sometimes it was by myself. I've done three so far and I have two coming up. I've placed first twice and second once.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah, you're doing a great job. We'll send you mass power lift. Give it a shot. See how it works for you. But you're so. You're so young. You're doing so well. You know, if. So if your strength is going up, you're doing, you're doing the right thing. If it starts to go down, don't worry about the programming. You haven't even come close to your max potential. And because of the weight that you're lifting, you know, that alone increases the volume. You know, if you're squatting £200 once a week, you, you know, and another girl squatting £100 twice a week.

[Unknown]

Right.

[Sal DeStefano]

You're both doing like the same volume. You see what I'm saying? So definitely, you know, so consider all that as well. But we'll send you mass power lift. Give it a shot. See what you see, what you think. Cool.

[Unknown]

And one other thing I just wanted to say, if you have time.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah.

[Unknown]

Is that I, I did one of your coaching, your personal training coaching seminars back in, I think September or October maybe. And at that point I was in college and I took that seminar and I skipped a class to make sure I was there on time. And that was one of my deciding factors to drop out of school, drop out of college, and really pursue my personal training career and powerlifting career. And I just want to thank you guys for that. You do some really great stuff and I'm really excited to see you.

[Adam Schaefer]

Awesome. I hope to see you in the coaching program. About to do a live thing coming up pretty soon here, so.

[Unknown]

Okay, cool. I'll definitely look out for it.

[Sal DeStefano]

You got it. And don't tell your mom we made you drop.

[Doug]

I know.

[Unknown]

She was actually. She was super happy. She was excited.

[Sal DeStefano]

Okay.

[Unknown]

It's all good.

[Doug]

You're going to crush. I'm not worried.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah. Awesome.

[Unknown]

All right. Thank you guys so much. It was nice talking to you.

[Sal DeStefano]

Thank you. Zoe.

[Unknown]

Yep.

[Adam Schaefer]

Why'd you manipulate my sound, Doug?

[Doug]

I didn't. Yeah, he has powers from afar.

[Sal DeStefano]

That was weird, dude. 18 year old kid lifting for five, you know, for five years. Powerlifting.

[Doug]

There's some great numbers.

[Sal DeStefano]

I mean, she's got such a good head on her shoulders around fitness and strength, you know. That's exciting. That's great. She's gonna be a trainer. This is great. At her age. Yeah.

[Adam Schaefer]

Very cool.

[Justin Andrews]

All right, our next caller is Ethan from Canada.

[Sal DeStefano]

What's up, Ethan?

[Adam Schaefer]

What's going on, Ethan?

[Doug]

What's happening? Brzowski?

[Ethan]

How are you guys?

[Sal DeStefano]

Good.

[Doug]

Good, man. All right.

[Adam Schaefer]

Weird.

[Ethan]

From this angle she said so I got. Guess I'll just jump right into the question here. So, sent this back in the fall, but I just listened to episode 2441 and it was cool to hear from Sal that you're part of a better man group. And I just at that point had just started one of those groups in my Church. So, yeah, I guess my question is, I'd love to hear you guys speak to the spiritual benefits of exercise, specifically weight and resistance training. I know for me, as weird as it might sound, my dedication to my training and the victory I feel in my Christian walk are directly influenced by each other. So I think there's something biblical about this, like subjecting yourself to discipline. And when you consider the whole biblical narrative and the indirect benefits of training. I've tried to explain this to a couple of different people in my life, but mostly just falls flat and people think I'm kind of crazy about exercise, I guess. So just any help you guys could give in explaining or articulating that, mind, body, spirit connection, and if you'd be willing to share your experience with that, that, and if you've come across anything in scripture that points to the importance of it, besides, like Paul in First Corinthians 9 talks about subjecting his body to discipline. So, yeah, just super encouraged by your guys podcast and wondered what your take on that is.

[Adam Schaefer]

God makes the weight 50% lighter.

[Doug]

Take the weight of the world on.

[Sal DeStefano]

Our shoulders, you know. You know what's funny about.

[Adam Schaefer]

I say that tongue in cheek. There's kind of truth behind that too, right?

[Sal DeStefano]

You know. You know what's really interesting about this, Ethan? Okay, so years ago, when we first interviewed Bishop Baron, this is. This was like the kind of the beginning of my, My, My. My journey towards Christ. And I remember I met Father Steve, who helps run his podcast, and it. Initially, it. It kind of took me aback because out walks this priest to greet me, and he's jacked. He's like this buffed priest.

[Doug]

You never see that.

[Sal DeStefano]

I'm like, what is going on?

[Doug]

So great.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah. So we started talking, and he's like, oh, I love your podcast. I've been working out for a long time, and. And we started talking about how fitness is this really interesting gateway towards spiritual growth. And I said, what do you mean by that? And he goes, well, you initially embark on it to look better, feel better, but if you really stick with it, you're trying to become a better person. And it starts with lifting weights, and then it starts with diet, and then it goes to diet and supplements, and it goes to sleep. And then maybe you're like, oh, I wonder if meditation's a good thing? And before you know it, you're looking at your spiritual health, because health is just kind of this wide sphere. And so I think this is why you see in fitness people who've been doing it for a While start to move in a spiritual direction and it can look like crystals and meditation, it can look like all kinds of different things. But eventually I think all those roads lead to what I would believe to be obviously the truth, which would be Christ. I think the discipline, the structure, being sober minded, you know how much it talks in scripture about being sober minded, being ready and prepared, I think all of that contributes. Glorifying God through your body is also part of it. Now fitness can also be used to move away from spiritual maturity. Right? If I start to worship my body, whoa, that takes me in the wrong direction. And there's a lot of people in fitness that do that. And this is something that I've struggled with for years and years and years where I place something good, which is your body. Remember, your body's good. Remember, Christ got resurrected. It wasn't just a spirit, it was his body that came out. And that's what's all going to be resurrected at the end of, you know, at the end of revelation. Our bodies are also going to be, be made perfect. You know, it's good. Our bodies are good. They were made good, obviously through sin. We have issues with it. But if it becomes your God, if you start to worship it, it can go in the wrong direction. So I think it's a tool. I think it's a tool and using it in the right way to allow you to worship better, to be a better father, to strengthen all the other priorities, I mean, it's great. And what's funny is when we talk about nutrition, when we talk about diet and exercise, even before I went on this journey, what I found to work best with people really aligns a lot with biblical teaching of grace. And this is what I would talk to my clients about before I ever became a Christian. It was, you know, grace based diet advice. And you're going to fail, and that's okay. And give yourself grace. And it's a journey. And it's not about worshiping your body and counting every macro. It's about understanding all the values of food. And sometimes it means you're celebrating with your friends and you're having some pizza, but other times it means you're eating in a way that improves your physical health. So it definitely goes hand in hand. You know, appetite and enjoying food is a good thing. Can it go bad? Absolutely. Expressing your movement, your body, you know, building strength and mobility and stamina, it's great. Can it go too far? Absolutely. So I think your body is good. It's great. Glorify it. But not for you. Right. Glorify it for him. And along with that comes that discipline. And, and anybody who exercises consistently and eats right, becoming disciplined in their spiritual practices, like, that's not that short. You know, it's like a direct connection, all those parallels.

[Doug]

There's so many parallels. And I think in the disciplines, you know, with, with eating to nourish your body versus, you know, indulging and you see in the excess what that leads to physically. And it, you carry that with you and you know, in terms of your spiritual walk, like if you're, you're leaning towards indulgence, you're not staying on the path and then enjoying the path as you're going through the, the process of it. I think somebody could really like if they, they took a lot of time with like putting this together with spiritual passages from the Bible. I'm sure that there's like a really clear parallel between the two. And I think it's, it's weird that we kind of discard that or separate. Or separate them.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah.

[Adam Schaefer]

At all.

[Doug]

Because it's all interconnected. Just like, you know, all the systems of the body. We, we do a good job of really like isolating certain systems of the body, not, not taking in account the whole and how they all interact with each other. And I think it's, it's very similar in that regard.

[Adam Schaefer]

I guess it's, I've never really thought about it like, this perspective. I've been asked like this and maybe, maybe that's because I've been a Christian since I was 7 years old. So it's been a part of my life, my whole life. But you've obviously heard people say, you know, when you're healthy and fit, you know, every aspect of life is better. Right. The good, the bad, everything you encounter when you're healthy and fit bit. I feel the same way about God. If he's a part of your life, everything is, is better, including all the bad stuff. And so to me it's, it's very similar to the, the healthy and fit, physical, healthy and fit version of me. Every aspect of. I'm a better father, I'm a better partner. I handle the hard times better. I would say the same thing about my, my walk with Christ that every, every, you know, everything, every aspect of my life, having that relationship makes all those things better. Even the bad times. All the bad times I have someone to lean on. All the good times gives me humility. Like there's a lot of stuff that is, is exactly the same to me. And so I don't know, I feel it's incomplete if I'm healthy with food and exercise, but I don't have a healthy walk with him. And so to me, it's. I don't know, I guess it's just been kind of the same.

[Sal DeStefano]

It's what's interesting. Most interesting to me is what's baked into it, is what I think I used to communicate when I was secular. And what you often hear in the health and fitness space is balance. Like, what does balance mean? What do you mean balance? Like. Like, you know, the way I would communicate it before was, you know, sometimes you eat food to enjoy the taste, other times you eat it to improve your health. And there's a balance between the two type of deal. Anyway, I remember I was talking to my friend who's a pastor, Chuck, and we were talking about alcohol, and I said, well, you know, wine. You know, they drink wine of the Bible. And I'm joking and teasing him and he says, well, what was Jesus's first miracle? You know, he was at a wedding. He was at a wedding and the party just got started and they ran out of wine. And Jesus basically is like, let's keep it going. Let's keep the celebration going. Let's make. Turn water into wine. He could have done anything. He could have done any miracle. But his first miracle was really about celebrating this communion. So I think it points to how it's kind of baked in there. And I think if you're doing it for God's glory, then you're not going to worship your body. You're going to train appropriately, you're going to eat appropriately, and you're going to find that natural balance. I think that's, that's what leads you to that balance, is that right there. But we do see, like, it's challenging. I think the most abused substance period is food. And I think it's definitely the most abused substance in churches. I think they're very aware of drugs and alcohol and other things, but when it comes to food, obesity rates are. Yeah, just as high.

[Doug]

Not to mention Christ was the first Crossfitter, so.

[Sal DeStefano]

Oh, God.

[Ethan]

Well, I was gonna say in the opposite of. It's probably true too. Like, it's so easy to abuse exercise and like be hyper disciplined. And that's what I guess I love about your guys's message towards fitness is like, I used to be the classic like over train, never give myself a day off. And then through you guys, I've been able to give myself a bit of grace and, and Use it more for my benefit in my Christian walk rather than like checking a box off and. And workspace kind of thing.

[Sal DeStefano]

Right? Yes. So, yeah.

[Ethan]

But yeah, it's super easy to abuse the exercise itself too. And I think that's where people get hung up on like not seeing the connection maybe. I don't know.

[Sal DeStefano]

Of course, I mean, 100. It's the abuse. Like. Like work is good, but when work becomes your top priority, not so good. Right. All these things are good, but not when they're.

[Doug]

Keep that hierarchy established priorities.

[Sal DeStefano]

That's right. So I mean, I've gotten now the practice of praying before workouts to help my relationship with exercise because that's my. My heart. One of my hardest things. And it's helped. It's starting to help. I can feel it. So.

[Ethan]

Cool.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah, Great question. I appreciate that question.

[Ethan]

Yeah, I appreciate you guys and appreciate the podcast and taking the time to answer that.

[Sal DeStefano]

You got it, man. Is there anything we can give you? Do you have all of our. Any of our programs?

[Ethan]

I'm on Maps 15 right now. Very grace based. Been missing a lot of days lately. I just switched jobs. Jobs. But so that's been kind of a stressor. But yeah, I don't know. Like, I like to work out as consistent as I can be, like with family and work and everything. So I don't know. Have you got any program, you guys.

[Sal DeStefano]

Have you gotten the Maps 15 performance version?

[Ethan]

Yeah, no.

[Sal DeStefano]

You'll love that. You'll love that. Let's send that to.

[Adam Schaefer]

Sure.

[Sal DeStefano]

You got it?

[Doug]

Yep. Sure.

[Ethan]

Thanks, guys.

[Sal DeStefano]

You got it, man. Man. Thanks for calling in.

[Ethan]

Yeah, you betcha. Thank you.

[Sal DeStefano]

Appreciate it. You know that better man group thing is like a. It's like a thing. It's like a program or whatever that different churches and stuff do. So.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah, they used to be called cell groups when we were. When I was going through.

[Sal DeStefano]

But it's like a specific branded one.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah. It's probably a curriculum to it.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah, exactly. Exactly. It's pretty cool too because when I did it, they taught like they open. One of the first they talk about was work and how work is good and you're. And you're supposed to like, here's how you're supposed to use work. And I was like, huh. I don't know that they would say that. I think I was sending you pictures of their curriculum. But anyway, pretty cool. Look, if you like the show, come find us on Instagram. Justin is mindpumpjustin. I'm @mindpump. Distefano and Adam's @mindpump.

[Justin Andrews]

Adam thank you for listening to Mind Pump. If your goal is to build and shape your body dramatically, improve your health and energy, and maximize your overall performance, check out our discounted RGB Super Bundle at mindpump Media. The RGB Super Bundle includes Maps, Anabolic Maps, Performance and Maps Aesthetic nine months of phased expert exercise programming designed by Sal, Adam and Justin to systematically transform the way your body looks, feels and performs. With detailed workout blueprints and over 200 videos, the RGB Super Bundle is like having Sal, Adam and Justin as your own personal trainers, but at a fraction of the price. The RGB Super Bundle has a full 30 day money back guarantee and you can get it now. Plus other valuable free [e-mail] if you enjoy this show, please share the love by leaving us a five star rating and review on itunes and by introducing Mind Pump to your friends and family. We thank you for your support and until next time, this is Mind Pump.

[Sal DeStefano]

Hi, I'm Chris Gethard and I'm very excited to tell you about Beautiful Anonymous, a podcast where I talk to random people on the phone. I tweet out a phone number.

[Adam Schaefer]

Thousands of people try to call you.

[Sal DeStefano]

Talk to one of them. They stay anonymous. I can't hang up. That's all the rules. I never know what's gonna happen. We get serious ones. I've talked with meth dealers on their way to prison. I've talked to people who survived mass shootings, Crazy funny ones.

[Adam Schaefer]

I talked to a guy with a.

[Sal DeStefano]

Goose slav, somebody who dresses up as a pirate on the weekends. I never know what's going to happen. It's a great show. Subscribe today. Beautiful Anonymous Ever feel like the news.

[Unknown]

Is just arguments or nonstop tragedy?

[Sal DeStefano]

Plus, who has the time to keep up with it all? Well, I have a solution for you.

[Adam Schaefer]

Welcome welcome to the newsworthy. In just 10 minutes a day, the.

[Sal DeStefano]

Newsworthy keeps you in the know about everything from politics to tech to entertainment.

[Unknown]

Using its signature Fast fair, fun style.

[Sal DeStefano]

No wonder Harper's Bazaar, Fast Company, People Magazine and more have called the Newsworthy one of the best podcasts to stay news savvy.

[Unknown]

Listen now by searching the Newsworthy in.

[Sal DeStefano]

Your podcast app or go to thenewsworthy.

[Adam Schaefer]

Com.