2534: The Top 5 Ways to Break Through a Training Plateau & More (Listener Live Coaching)

Summary

Episode 2534: The Top 5 Ways to Break Through a Training Plateau & More (Listener Live Coaching)

Hosts: Sal DiStefano, Adam Schafer, Justin Andrews, Doug Egge
Release Date: February 15, 2025

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Introduction

In Episode 2534 of Mind Pump: Raw Fitness Truth, hosts Sal DiStefano, Adam Schafer, and Justin Andrews delve into the pervasive issue of training plateaus—those frustrating periods where progress in strength, muscle gain, or fat loss seems to stall despite consistent effort. Drawing from over 40 years of combined experience, the hosts present five science-backed strategies to overcome these stagnations. Additionally, the episode features live coaching sessions where listeners call in with personal challenges, allowing the hosts to provide tailored advice in real-time.

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Understanding Training Plateaus

Sal DiStefano kicks off the discussion by defining a training plateau:

"You haven't gotten any stronger. You haven't lost any more body fat. You haven't built any more muscle over the last four weeks. It's a plateau."
– Sal DiStefano [01:16]

This phenomenon is common among fitness enthusiasts who find themselves stuck despite maintaining their workout routines.

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Top 5 Plateau Busters

1. Implement a Deload Week

The first strategy involves taking a planned week off from intense training to allow the body to recover and adapt.

"Take a week off and then start back up again with a different approach."
– Sal DiStefano [03:03]

Key Points:

• Deloading reduces workout volume and intensity, preventing cumulative stress.
• Supported by studies showing no significant loss in muscle development even with periodic rest.
• Effective in resetting the body's capacity to handle training stress.

2. Increase Caloric Intake

A common reason for plateaus is insufficient calorie consumption, leading the body to conserve energy and halt progress.

"Add a 200 to 500-calorie meal or a shake."
– Sal DiStefano [11:30]

Key Points:

• Caloric Surplus is essential for muscle growth and recovery.
• Even a modest increase can jump-start stalled progress.
• Emphasis on nutrient-dense foods to avoid fat gain while increasing calories.

3. Prioritize Quality Sleep

Sleep is crucial for recovery, hormonal balance, and overall health, directly impacting training outcomes.

"Make sure you sleep eight hours every night, go to bed at the same time every night, and wake up at the same time every day."
– Sal DiStefano [11:30]

Key Points:

• Consistent Sleep Patterns enhance recovery and performance.
• Lack of sleep contributes to overtraining and metabolic slowdown.
• Strategies include establishing a bedtime routine and minimizing disturbances.

4. Refine Exercise Form

Focusing on proper form rather than just lifting heavier weights can stimulate muscle growth and reduce injury risk.

"Lift with lighter weight and much better form."
– Sal DiStefano [16:35]

Key Points:

• Enhanced Muscle Engagement through full range of motion and controlled movements.
• Prevents injuries that can derail training progress.
• Often leads to unexpected strength gains despite lighter weights.

5. Adjust Training Intensity

For some, increasing the intensity by pushing for slightly heavier weights or more challenging workouts can break the plateau.

"Lift heavier and challenge yourself a little bit with how much you can lift."
– Sal DiStefano [19:23]

Key Points:

• Gradual Weight Increases encourage continuous muscle adaptation.
• Avoids stagnation by keeping the workouts consistently challenging.
• Essential for those who have adapted to their current training regimen.

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Live Listener Coaching

The episode features live coaching segments where listeners seek advice on overcoming their specific training challenges.

Listener 1: Bonnie from South Carolina

Issue: Feeling plateaued with increased body fat and lack of strength gains due to poor sleep and high stress.

"I have been in a slight cut for three months and then I stayed at or slightly above maintenance for the last nine months. My sleep and my stress have been terrible this year."
– Bonnie [54:03]

Advice:

• Increase Caloric Intake: Incorporate a calorie-dense shake to kickstart metabolism.
• Improve Sleep Quality: Aim for consistent eight-hour sleep cycles.
• Reduce Stress: Implement stress-management techniques to aid recovery.

"This week off, just let everything heal a little bit."
– Sal DiStefano [60:47]

Listener 2: Elijah from Arkansas

Issue: Consistently hitting protein goals but struggling to meet overall calorie targets, impeding muscle gain.

"I'll only eat like 1700 calories or like 1800 calories. So I leave a lot on the table."
– Elijah [67:16]

Advice:

• Incorporate Fattier Meats: Switch to ribeye or chicken thighs to increase calorie intake effortlessly.
• Add Healthy Fats: Include sources like nuts, avocados, and olive oil in meals.
• Maintain Protein Intake: Continue focusing on high-protein foods while boosting overall calories.

"Continue eating whole foods. Enjoy fattier meats and keep those calorie intake up."
– Doug [73:17]

Listener 3: Danny from Nevada

Issue: Balancing multiple athletic activities with training programs and seeking sustainable progress.

"Can someone like me, or anyone who has some athletic goals, just kind of run that type of training indefinitely?"
– Danny [73:30]

Advice:

• Stick with Current Program: Continue with the Maps Performance program as it aligns well with his athletic pursuits.
• Adapt Training Volume: Adjust workout intensity based on current activity levels to prevent overtraining.
• Incorporate Variety: Consider integrating other programs like Symmetry or Old Timey Strength periodically to maintain balance.

"Performance is so well balanced and perfect for somebody who is moving as much as you are."
– Doug [75:40]

Listener 4: Brittany from Texas

Issue: Struggling to build muscle due to Hashimoto's and high-stress business environment.

"Do you think autoimmunity, Hashimoto's specifically, can play a role in not being able to put on as much muscle as the average person?"
– Brittany [81:52]

Advice:

• Prioritize Health First: Focus on managing Hashimoto's through proper nutrition and stress reduction.
• Consistent Training: Continue with Maps 15 while allowing the body ample time to recover.
• Monitor Progress: Observe health improvements which will, in turn, enhance training outcomes.

"Health has to come before the strength."
– Sal DiStefano [86:19]

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Insights and Conclusions

Throughout the episode, Mind Pump emphasizes the importance of balance, rest, and personalization in overcoming training plateaus. The hosts debunk the myth that more is always better, advocating instead for strategic adjustments based on individual needs and scientific principles.

Key Takeaways:

• Deloading and Rest: Essential for long-term progress and injury prevention.
• Nutrition: Adequate caloric and macronutrient intake is foundational for muscle growth.
• Sleep and Stress Management: Critical components often overlooked in fitness routines.
• Form and Technique: Investing in proper exercise execution yields better results than merely increasing weights.
• Sustainable Intensity Adjustments: Maintaining a challenging yet manageable workout intensity fosters continuous improvement.

"If you stay on the path you are now, you're going to start to lose strength and muscle."
– Sal DiStefano [65:13]

The live coaching sessions further illustrate that overcoming plateaus is not a one-size-fits-all solution but rather a nuanced process that requires attention to various aspects of one's lifestyle and training regimen.

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Final Thoughts

Mind Pump: Raw Fitness Truth Episode 2534 serves as a comprehensive guide for anyone facing stagnation in their fitness journey. By integrating foundational strategies with personalized coaching, the hosts provide actionable steps backed by science and real-world experience, empowering listeners to break through their own training barriers and achieve their desired health and fitness goals.

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Produced by Doug Egge. For more insights and training protocols, visit mindpumppodcast.com and follow the hosts on Instagram @mindpumpmedia, @mindpumpsal, @mindpumpadam, @mindpumpjustin, and @mindpumpdoug.

Transcript

[Sal DiStefano]

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[Justin Andrews]

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[Doug]

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[Adam Schaefer]

If you want to pump your body and expand your mind, there's only one place to go.

[Sal DiStefano]

Mind Pump. Mind Pump.

[Adam Schaefer]

With your hosts Sal Destefano, Adam Schaefer.

[Sal DiStefano]

And Justin Andrews, you just found the most downloaded fitness, health and entertainment podcast. This is mindpub, right? In today's episode, we answered live callers. People called in and we coached them live on air. But this was after the intro portion. Today's intro was 50 minutes long. In the intro we talk about fitness studies, nutrition, personal training. It's a great time. By the way, if you want to be on an episode like this, email us your [e-mail] this episode is brought to you by some sponsors. Today's episode was brought to you by Organifi Organifi. In today's episode, we talked about their Shilajit gummies. Shilajit is an ayurvedic compound and it's been shown to have some pretty cool health benefits. They put it in gummy form. Go check them out. Go to Organifi.com, that's O R-G-A-N-I-F I.com mindpump Use the code mindpump. Get 20% off. This episode is also brought to you by Rock Recovery Center. If you go to rockrecoverycenter.com mindpump you can register for a free scholarship. So so four months $60,000 scholarship for you or A loved one who's struggling with substance abuse. We know the owners of this place, we know the people who run the place. We trust them. Go check them out. We also have a webinar coming up. Adam and I are going to be teaching coaches and trainers how to leverage social media. It's totally free. Go to trainerwebinar.com finally, we have a program sale. Maps Anabolic is combined with an OBS six pack formula. You can get both of them together for $59.99. If you're interested, go to maps february.com all right, here comes the show. You haven't gotten any stronger. You haven't lost any more body fat. You haven't built any more muscle over the last four weeks. It's a plateau.

[Doug]

What's going on?

[Sal DiStefano]

Let's start seeing results again. We have five plateau busters, five of them, and they're effective. First one might surprise you. Take a week off and then start back up again with a different approach. Let's start there.

[Doug]

I like that. I think there's a good chance that a majority of people listening to this podcast, I'd say a high percentage of them are, would consider themselves fitness people.

[Sal DiStefano]

Yeah. Especially if you're plateaued. Especially if you've been working.

[Doug]

Yeah, that's my point. So that's who I'm talking to. Because there's obviously this advice is specific to that group of people, right? Yeah. We have our average clients that we train, which were nobody. The client who couldn't string 30 days together of training.

[Sal DiStefano]

It's not a plateau if you're not working out.

[Doug]

That's right. That's right. So first goal, if you can't, if you can't be consistent for 30 days, this probably doesn't fit you. Now, we do have a lot of people that are very, very consistent and are always looking for the next competitive edge, the next supplement, the next program. They never take time off or rarely ever take time off. And this is like one of, one of the huge hacks. And I think all of us have shared stories of our personal journey of when we realize this, you know, what, what's the minimum effective dose? And that most of us tend to overdo it, being fitness fanatics because we take a week off expecting to come back, oh, God, I'm gonna be so much weaker and so far behind. And you were stronger.

[Sal DiStefano]

Stronger. So. So when you look at the best, most scientifically planned strength training programs in the world, they tend to be, or they're almost all relegated to strength sports like Olympic Lifting, powerlifting, mainly because they're objective. Right. You have to objectively measure your performance. Olympic lifting in particular was, you know, it's funded by countries competing against each other in the Olympics. So they're very scientifically done and they all include what you can, what will be commonly called in the fitness space, a deload week or deload periods of time. Deload simply means you're reducing your volume, your intensity, your workout significantly for a certain period of time to come back and to continue progressing. And the data shows that this works exceptionally well. In fact, there was a study, we've talked about this many times, which is a short study. So these people I don't think even needed a deload week, but what they did is they showed that when you compared two groups of people, one group working out every week, another group taking a week off after every three weeks over 12 week period. So over the 12 week period, one group took off three weeks. Right.

[Doug]

This is, that study was so crazy when this came out. Like the fact that you could in a 12 weeks is short. We already talk about how that's a short study. To think that the group who took off three weeks out of the 12 weeks, a third same results got the same results as the people that went every week.

[Sal DiStefano]

That's right. That's crazy from a muscle development standpoint.

[Doug]

Right.

[Sal DiStefano]

So we're not talking about stamina and endurance. That might be a little different, but like from building muscle, they were the same. So what does this tell us? Well, I think what you have with the fitness fanatic, what tends to happen is we naturally start to veer towards away from what is ideal and we start to move towards what is tolerable or what our bodies can tolerate. In other words, what's the upper limit of what I can handle? And you get away with this for a little while until the cumulative stress on your body starts to compound. This is what happens. You go from week one, week two, week three, week four, week five, and then and so on. This stress starts to compound and then what happens is you're just breaking yourself down and healing and coming back to baseline, breaking yourself down, healing back to baseline, so you don't improve at all. And so taking a week off, just that alone oftentimes gets people through plateaus.

[Doug]

I have a theory on why that's so common. What do you guys think? Why do you think that's so common?

[Sal DiStefano]

I think it's common for two reasons. I think one, fitness fanatics like to work out. So we like to See how much we get away with. But two, I think that adding more works for a while until it stops working.

[Doug]

So I actually, I think it's something different than both those. Oh, I think that because. And we, I think we all would agree and say that there was a period of time where we thought this or did this and you chased soreness as an indicator of a good workout.

[Sal DiStefano]

Gotta be.

[Doug]

And, and as you start off, it's really easy to get sore because everything is new, right? All the movements are new.

[Unknown]

See all this new progression and then.

[Doug]

You, then you little strong and you add a little more weight and then eventually you start to slow up and adapt. And then the soreness really starts to diminish because the body is adapted and become. And you keep chasing the soreness. And your way of doing that is two levers.

[Unknown]

There's the volume or there's intensity and you're going to crank, you know, one or the other or both. Try and get there to get to.

[Doug]

That in pursuit of that soreness. And I'm very much so guilty. This even as a trainer should know better of like, oh, I didn't get sore enough. So next workout, how I'm applying more. And so I think most of these people end up here relatively quick within. Yeah. Chasing the pain of thinking that is an indicator of a good workout and it sets you up for this. And then let me tell you, some of the people who chase that soreness are some of the fitness facts that keep on going and that they end up in this place for a long period until they have that moment where they accidentally take a week off or somehow it ends up happening where they take a week off and then they come back. And then a lot of times they don't even make the connection still yet if they really were, to be honest.

[Unknown]

Fear that they're really going to set themselves back if they stop this progression that they've created in this environment, in this type of habit that they work so hard to achieve. This habit and consistency is like everything that's been working. So now you know, if that formula doesn't apply, then I'm just going to bring myself all the way back to the beginning.

[Sal DiStefano]

And it's by the way, this can sneak up on you too. If, yes, even if you think you're being smart about your training, I'll give you a great example. You've been training for a while and you're. You're getting relatively consistently stronger. So either week in, week out or every other week or so you're progressing on every lift. Well, here's what happening that you don't realize. You haven't added sets, you haven't added new exercises. It's the same routine. How come all of a sudden it's too much for me because you've added weight to the bar or you've added reps, you've added volume. So every time you get stronger or every time you do a couple more reps, you've actually added volume to your routine. So over time of progressing, you're actually progressively adding volume until it becomes something your body can no longer tolerate. And the first sign of it is a plateau where you get no, you see no progress. And I did say over four weeks because I think that's a fair measurement of plateauing. At least a month for most people, maybe a little longer, but definitely not a week. Right. You're not, you can't expect yourself to progress every week.

[Doug]

Yeah, I mean, another reason why this sneaks up on people is I feel like they just, they, they misunderstand what is the right dose for the body and what they can tolerate.

[Sal DiStefano]

Yeah, yeah, that's it.

[Doug]

And so they end up getting to this place where it's hard to read this because they're like, oh, I'm fine or I feel good after my workout. And the, you don't understand just how resilient the body is and how well it adapts. And you're right, you probably are fine. The body can handle the punishment that you're giving at all time and handle it so well you're not getting sore anymore. But it's definitely got to a point where it's like you ain't getting, adapting, you're not getting any more results. Because so much of our energy and effort is put, put towards being able to just handle it and handle the, all of the intensity and volume putting towards it that you're not giving enough resources to go build, adapt and add strength.

[Sal DiStefano]

Now the second part to this is you come back with a different approach. So it could be as different as changing your split the routine. It could be changing the exercises, the rep range, the tempo or the focus. But if you come back with the same routine as before, you're going to quickly run into a plateau again. By the way, the most challenging part about this is the week off. People are always like, well, what do I do now? The easy answer is nothing. But I know fitness fanatics don't want to do nothing. Doug, give me the link for the guy. We have a seven day overtraining rescue guide. It's free. You go to mindpumpfree.com and it's a seven day guide that tells you what to do every single day, that accelerates recovery and gets you ready to work out again. It includes diet strategies and stuff like that along with it, which is pretty cool. Which takes me to the second one, which for a lot of people, the reason why they're plateauing is they're simply not eating enough.

[Doug]

Yeah.

[Sal DiStefano]

And so I like to make this very simple. Add a 2 to 500 calorie meal or make it easy shake. And I see this with clients all the time. The ones that I knew struggled with going in a calorie surplus because they were so worried about getting fatter, they always wanted to be lean.

[Unknown]

On my female clients, this was very difficult to convey totally.

[Sal DiStefano]

And so what I would do is I would come up with a shake for them because when it was prescriptive, sometimes I was more effective. And the shake would consist of protein powder, some kind of a healthy fat in a kind of a milk, whether it be a nut milk because they can't have dairy or dairy. Throw in some fruit and they'd have 2 to 500 calorie extra shake that they would add to their food. And for those clients, this would get things moving again.

[Doug]

Yeah, this is so true that there's a saying in the bodybuilding world that has been permeating for years that there's no such thing as over training, just under eating.

[Sal DiStefano]

That's because there's some truth to this. Well, 100% true.

[Doug]

Well, where the truth comes from is that most of these people that started that who are on anabolic steroids. And when you're taking all kinds of steroids that keep your anabolic signal at peak levels 24, 7, 7 days a week. And you're also taking stacks of hormones and things that help recovery and do things like that. Boy, you can really push those levers of intensity and volume as long as you're feeding the body and giving it more calories and more nutrients to keep building and get away with so much more than the average person. And so that's become a popular saying in the space.

[Sal DiStefano]

There is some truth for the, even the natural person, though, for the person who's afraid of eating more calories, who's afraid of, you know, and it is more often women than men that you see, they're just like, they got lean, they look, they, they're fit, they want to get stronger. They don't know why you look at their diet, okay, you're eating 1700 calories a day. You add 300 calories to that and boom, strength, you know right away comes right back. And so just if that's, you add a 2 to 500 calorie shake with a decent amount of protein in it, just add that every single day and you'll probably see yourself progressing within a few days. Next step is to put a focus on sleep. What I mean by that is make sure you sleep eight hours every night, go to bed at the same time every, every night and wake up at the same time every day. So it's the same every single day, quality sleep. And that's it. And then do it. Give it 14 days. Now the people who I see get crazy results from this are younger individuals, typically 20 year olds. When I, when they do this consistently because they all have crappy sleep and.

[Unknown]

They stay up late, it's not even a consideration.

[Sal DiStefano]

Otherwise, not even when they do this, it's almost like, you know, I, there was one I thinking of a kid right now who was in his early 20s, who I worked with when I was in my 30s, early 30s and I had him do this for 14 days. He gained five pounds of lean body mass. He was already muscular and strong, did nothing else. Five pounds of lean body mass in two weeks and he was tripping out. And of course it was one of my favorite I told you so you know, moments in my entire career.

[Doug]

That's interesting that you say that group. I would actually make the argument and maybe this is just an example of the difference in our clientele. I saw this a lot with my high performing CEO type of clients because they for sure that too And a lot of times what it is is that sacrifice they have the, and this would have, this would happen while I was training them and while I was managing volume and intensity. And so I know that oh we're not, or I think we're not applying too much. But what I don't, what I'm not taking into consideration is this high performing, high stress individual that works six days a week, 12 hour days, has got all this pressure on them at work. Even though I think my training is relatively moderate for the average person, I'm not taking into consideration how poorly this person is sleeping in their stress. This is actually when that started to come together for me as a, as a coach and a trainer was starting to recognize this and go like, oh wow, I really have to learn how to modify my, my training volume, intensity, because this, what I'm applying should be fine. Yet we're at a Hard plateau right now. And I'm monitoring all these things. What I'm not monitoring or I wasn't monitoring at that time was those clients sleep patterns and their stress levels and those clients that I, that were like, that they were, oh, Adam, I only need four hours of sleep. You know what I'm saying? We're just killers in business.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Doug]

And because of that, like getting that person, like convincing them that, listen, just trust me, prioritize your sleep for a couple weeks and let's see what happens. And then, boom, they would.

[Unknown]

Yeah, I had a very similar experience with that. Especially my. One of my most difficult clients in terms of like, what is that? What is that thing that's going to move the progress? It was always like this, we're hitting a wall. And I knew it was because of stress and work and demand and like work waking up in the middle of the night. The only time we had like crazy progress is when she went on vacation for a week in a tropical place, got a ton of sun and a lot of sleep, came back and like, and lost weight and then everything was stronger and it was like an immediate thing. And still didn't like, really like we. I tried really hard to convey like that was a huge component that we're lacking, you know, and look what happened. But yeah, it's, that was the most difficult thing is like when, when it comes to sleep, it's like, how do you, how do you convince somebody that's high performing and it's just a killer to slow down?

[Sal DiStefano]

It's a four day, 14 day challenge. Try it out and see what happens.

[Doug]

Yeah.

[Sal DiStefano]

Next up, and you'll know if this is. You lift with lighter weight and much better form. And this is, you know, this is you. If you're the one that likes to push the weight a lot, you like to go heavier. You don't want to go lighter. You sacrifice form a little bit or at least you know, you could go deeper in your squat or your lift or whatever if you went lighter, if that's you. This is a crazy plateau buster is one of my favorite ones. With these individuals, I would make them go lighter and I'd have a fuller range of motion, slow down the reps and boom. Muscle would, would grow all over them. This actually happened to me in my late teens, early 20s, because that was me up until I started figuring out form was really important. And I went a little lighter, had a deeper range of motion, and my body just developed.

[Unknown]

Well, I imagine in the same category, that type of person has a workout Partner. And I would say, fire them and start doing it by yourself and start really getting into the nitty gritty of your form and you know what, you can actually lift without momentum.

[Doug]

These were my clients that were like my ex athletic or really strong dudes that were in their 40s and 50s and they still, you know, could lift heavy, but they had to use all the wraps and the straps and everything to do. And they were constantly talking about their knees and their hips and their back and all stuff like that because they just didn't want to let go of because they could bench press 315 or because they could still squat 400 pounds that they needed to or wanted to. And it was all ego driving them to do that. When it was like, listen, let me strip the weight in half and show you just as good, if not better results. And getting them to trust me to do that was always really difficult. That was the client that I was most challenged with, with getting this point across. But it was always amazing when you did because all those things would be better. A lot of the joint pain would go, go away. All of a sudden. They weren't waking up like that. They could move better, they felt better, and then they actually saw gains. And then when we came back to test our strength and we had hit PRs, and so it was like they were training in that heavy mode for so long that they haven't allowed themselves to do that. And many times it was ego driven.

[Sal DiStefano]

Because they didn't want to see. Now, I go to a commercial gym now, and where I go in the morning, a lot of the guys in there working out are in their 20s, and this is very true for them. They like to go heavy, cut their reps short, especially on things like overhead press and, you know, bench press and stuff like that. And if they just went lighter, full range of motion, they'd be blown away. Now, the next one is the opposite. Lift heavier. This is, you know, if this is you because you're afraid to go heavier or you use the same weights all the time. My female clients in this female clients was more. Whereas the, you know, go lighter was more, you know, advantageous or more valuable.

[Doug]

My main egomaniac dudes lift lighter. My girls, safe, precautious, don't want to push it.

[Sal DiStefano]

Let's go heavier and challenge yourself a little bit with how much you can lift. And if that's you, this could be huge. Now, this was one of my favorite buttons with female clients. Yeah, they'd hire me, I'd see what they were doing. And I could see right away like you can add £20 of the bar. No, I can't. Yeah, you can. I'll, I'll show you. And then they add it and lo and behold, perfectly fine. And then we start progressing again.

[Doug]

When we talk about this, it always reminds me of kind of how we all got together because this was when you first sent me over Maps Anabolic and I tell the story all the time that like, what was it that made me get on the phone with you and go like, oh, this is brilliant. And it was at that time, first of all, so the audience understands 60, 70%, maybe more of our clientele are female, middle aged female clients wanting to get in shape, lose weight. Most common client, and one of the most common things is they didn't lift heavy. Getting them to lift heavy, to squat, to deadlift, to lift these big lifts, five by five type training. And you know, as a trainer, like realizing how valuable it was and what a hack it was to get those clients to do that. I mean I would, I would blow my female clients minds by just simply. Their first phase I trained them would be heavy lifting because it was so foreign and so new. The muscle would pile on, they'd lean out, their metabolism and appetite would go. It was just. I. And it took me 10 years of my career to get to that point where I realized like, oh, this is, this is how I start all my clients now. And that was the same time that Sal and I had met virtually and he had sent over Maps Anabolic. And I looked at it. I'm like yes. Like this is literally what I'm like. And so it was phase one. Yeah. And it was phase one. And I knew that that had to been why the thought process behind, behind it. And I was like, okay, we're on the same wavelength. And so I, whenever we give this tip, it reminds me of kind of the inception of Mind Pump and how it all started.

[Sal DiStefano]

Speaking of, you know, working out in progress and stuff, there was a study that was just published. Jeff Nippert actually was one of the people that conducted the study. So people don't know he's a fitness influencer, smart guy, scientist. And, and he say what?

[Doug]

Just Justin loves him.

[Unknown]

I don't know a lot about the guy, but he, he doesn't come on my feed.

[Sal DiStefano]

They did a study where they compared loose form to strict form on a single joint exercise, the bicep curl. So they only picked one exercise. I like the way they did it. One arm did a cheat curl with more Weight. The other arm in the same body did a strict curl.

[Doug]

Okay.

[Sal DiStefano]

With lighter weight.

[Doug]

Okay.

[Sal DiStefano]

And they did this study, which. I like that. I think that was, that's performed really well. And how long.

[Doug]

Give me this study.

[Sal DiStefano]

I gotta pull it up. It was, it was really, it was long enough to see if there was progress. I'll pull it up for you.

[Doug]

Okay.

[Sal DiStefano]

But what they found in the study was there was no difference in progress. Which just goes to show, the cheat reps, you're just adding risk for no reason. Yeah. You're at. By the way, this is a single joint exercise too. Single joint exercises. Cheating on a single joint exercise, like a curl. Not that big of a deal. From a risk perspective, you still have a higher risk of injury. Not that big double. You know, compound lifts. Oh, yeah. You cheat on those, your risk of injury goes through the roof. Like you do a squat. Perfectly very safe. You do a cheat squat, whatever that looks like, and you've got yourself some.

[Doug]

I love this study and I love this point because this reminds me of being a trainer. And one of the things I love to do, especially when I was in like crazy shredded shape, is I would be in my little tank top, stringer cut off, like looking shredded. And I would go next to somebody and I would be lifting like the lightest weight with like just strict perfect form. And I knew when you look like that, when you stand out as like the 1% in the gym, fit wise, you know, that it grabs the attention of the people inside there, especially when you're a trainer in the facility and they see you there all the time. And I always got people to ask me questions, I always see you lifting super lightweight, like, but you look amazing. And then I would, I would be able to explain this to them that, yeah, this idea that you need to put all this weight on, you can build a lot of muscle through strict good form and light weight and it doesn't take loading so much.

[Unknown]

Well, this has always been my criticism of structuring workouts in a competitive environment. Like a crazy CrossFit or a, you know, orange theory class or like, you know, these class settings that, you know, really like reward people for this, you know, being able to kind of cheat their way through or like add more weight. But it's, it's bragging rights in terms of what they're able to do. But, you know, now we just take a lot of the quality out of, of the actual movement and the value of it drops substantially.

[Sal DiStefano]

So it was an eight week study, so two months, which I think is long enough to show if there's a bit of a difference. But the reason why I'm, I like the results is it confirms just what I've seen training people. But I will say this just to defend the bodybuilders, because bodybuilders will sometimes be the ones to argue for cheat reps. In fact, the term cheat reps was created by bodybuilders.

[Doug]

Arnold, if the first 10 is encyclopedia.

[Sal DiStefano]

The first strength training book I ever bought and read was his encyclopedia. And there is a, you know, there was pictures and advice for a cheat curl that's in there. Here's why I think sometimes experienced lifters, especially in single joint exercises, I think cheat, you know, compound lifts is you're playing with fire and it's dumb. But some single joint exercises, a lateral, you know, a curl, a tricep press down, fine. I think sometimes why experienced lifters will notice better progress is not because they're cheating or it's more weight, but rather they've changed the exercise. It's a different lift now. So if you look at a cheat curl versus a strict curl, or a cheap press down versus a regular press down or a lateral strict versus one that's not a strict. They're, they're actually different exercises. They're different techniques. In fact, you can get really good at one and you'll have some carryover to the other one, but not as much as if you practiced the other one. So like, like a cheek curl, for example, it's kind of its own lift. It's very close to a strict curl or related. So I think it's just different, which.

[Unknown]

Is why experience allows the momentum.

[Doug]

And I mean, I love different. I love this point too, because inevitably I would get someone that would ask this and challenge that, especially because that was. And that's how I know it's in that book. Because people would be like, well, I read that Arnold said cheat reps and I, I would tell my clients that you have to earn the right to do that. Yeah, like we, we, we're going to train in such strict form that you are so connected to everything we're trying to activate. And you can master every exercise we're doing with strict perfect form. And then we earn the right to put some English on it and to cheat and to create a new exercise. In a sense, it's like, until then, we're going to stick to incredibly strict form and the basic movements. We're going to master the basics with perfect form and technique and then we can start playing with These unique movements and exercises and stuff that we create. Otherwise you lose the benefits because you can't even perform the exercise with perfect strict form. And now you're cheating it. So now you're losing out on.

[Sal DiStefano]

I mean, the way I would even just counter what I said earlier is there's better ways to add novelty. There's a better way to add novelty to your exercise than doing a cheat loose version of the same exercise that you've been doing. And why is that better? You haven't increased. You know, one thing with, with exercise, especially strength training, is if you're going to increase your risk of injury, you better have a full, far better return in terms of progress. Once the risk of injury outweighs the return, it makes no sense whatsoever.

[Unknown]

It's frivolous.

[Sal DiStefano]

It's just dumb. And I mean, because if you look at people who've been doing this for long, long periods of time, the thing that gets in the way is injury. Always. It's almost, it's the worst thing that gets in the way. It's not family stuff, it's not whatever. I'm talking about people who've been doing this for decades. When you look at their careers of training or whatever and you see, oh, you stopped doing this exercise. Why? Or you had to change the way you trained, what happened? Or wow, over here you took six months.

[Unknown]

Ultimate deterrent to your entire program is get injured.

[Doug]

I also, I also, this is, I guess this is, I don't know what side this is of me or how weird this is, right? I don't know if you guys are agree with this, but I mean I love biomechanics and human physiology so much that there's, there's art and beauty in it.

[Sal DiStefano]

It's a skill for.

[Doug]

And so just like when, when somebody, and I'm not a fan of this sport, but a lot of people are and the people that maybe our fans of sport understand this, like when you watch like something like ice skating, it's the way they move so flawlessly on the ice is when it's not that they just stay up and then they jump. It's like the, how flawless it is in the movement and the technique is what makes the score so high and what makes it so beautiful to watch. I feel the same way about exercise. It's, it's, I mean, one of the most attractive qualities that I've ever thought in a, in a female is when I come in and I can see a woman performing a squat or. Oh. And it's like flawless. That's so attractive to me. I think that's like watching the body move so perfectly the way it's supposed to on an exercise like that. And so bastardizing. That to me is just like. I just. I don't know, it's like nails.

[Unknown]

Thinking of Sal doing a deadlift, and I'm like, that's very Brian Boitano. So beautiful.

[Sal DiStefano]

Forgot about that. That ice skater.

[Unknown]

Magical.

[Doug]

Yeah.

[Sal DiStefano]

Nice. All right, so I have a cool study. Another. Another study to bring up. This is on omega 3 fatty acids. This has just been published, so which. Which actually led me to finding a couple other studies on omega 3 fatty acids. So in this particular study, they found that omega 3 fatty acids reduced aging in individuals or slowed down the aging process in individuals who consume them regularly as measured by, you know, there's biological measures that we look at that can signify biological aging. And it was a large study. People who ate a gram of omega 3 fatty acids a day aged slower. They aged slower also. They also found in another study that people who ate higher levels of omega 3 fatty acids had higher average scores on tests of abstract reasoning, and they had larger average volumes in the hippocampus area of their brains. So omega 3 fatty acids, they're. They're. It's probably a good idea necessary to supplement with them, but even better would be to consume foods that are high in them.

[Doug]

Yeah. When I hear. When I hear something, you know, that makes me always curious about. And you're probably the person to ask this, because I have no idea how they, like, something like this would measure up. But say, for example, like a product like Sheilajit from Organifi. Like the. The. One of the benefits in there is skins. Wrinkle health. Like, there's, like. It hits so many things. How does something like Omega 3s measure up to a product like that? Are they equal? Are they different? Are they the same? Like.

[Sal DiStefano]

No, let's be clear. Omega threes are essential fatty acids. There is no essential shilajit. Like, you have to take. You have to have a certain amount of omega 3 fatty acids just to thrive.

[Doug]

Now, is that for. So for, like you said, for the skin. Right. For that exact. The thing. The things that are inside shilajit that have benefits towards the skin, is it the same or different? And are they something that you would be synergistic about?

[Sal DiStefano]

You can take them both. Yeah. Yeah. There's nothing competing there. The omega 3 fatty acids are really interesting in terms of longevity, health, aging, inflammation. I think in these studies, they're looking at people that eat them, by the way. For the average person, if you ate sardines, which people confuse sardines with anchovies. Sardines taste great, especially if you had salt, lemon, whatever. You ate a can of sardines every other day, you'd get plenty of omega 3 fatty acids. Shilajit is far different, a little bit more mysterious, even though it's been used for a long time. Shilajit is an ayurvedic compound. It's actually, if you go in the Himalayan mountains, really find it. It's this black tarry substance that comes from the decomposition of plants over centuries. So it's like centuries old decomposed plant material that, that they've used organic matter that they've used in ayurvedic medicine.

[Doug]

So does it make it rare? Because it takes that long in order to.

[Sal DiStefano]

So. So here's what's crazy about that. You just said that. So shilajit. I knew about it for a long time, right?

[Doug]

I know you did, because I remember when Organifi did it and I didn't know what the hell it was. And you're like, oh my God, I've no idea. Yeah.

[Sal DiStefano]

Psyched. Okay. Because I, I, you know, I didn't know any of any really good providers, or I should say it wasn't popular, but it should be because if you look at the studies on, it's pretty interesting. It's good for brain health, raises testosterone, good for fertility. It's got all these, like, pretty cool benefits. Been used for a long time. Organifi went with a company called Prima V which uses real shilajit. Here's why that's important. So the real stuff, the real, like it's, you know, decomposed plant matter hundreds of years old or whatever. There's a lot of companies now, because it's so popular that are making fake shilajit. They're making it in a lab. They're taking fulvic acid, they're adding it to other things. Yes. And they're trying to. And they're creating it's lab created shilajit. It's not the same stuff that they use in ayurvedic medicine. So Organifi sources theirs from Prima V, which is real. That's real shilajit. Other companies, you gotta be careful where you get it from because it's so hard.

[Doug]

So hard for the consumer, man.

[Sal DiStefano]

You wouldn't know that. How would you know this?

[Doug]

Well, it's, it reminds me of the same challenge we have with our other partner with Juve Red light.

[Sal DiStefano]

Yeah.

[Doug]

You know, like, it's like. Just because it's red light doesn't mean you get the same benefits as, like, the. The.

[Sal DiStefano]

No, it's like a stoplight that's red.

[Doug]

Yeah. So I know, but the average person, they're not. They're not making that connection. They just. What they constantly hear is that red light, red light therapy, red light, red, red light. And then all of a sudden it gets popular, and then all of a sudden all these brands pop up, and then you order one and you have no idea the difference. And there's even a little bit. And I'm sure that that's what these shilajit companies are doing is you. Pixie dust, a little bit of the real stuff in there. Then you have more of the fake synthetic stuff. So you could still kind of claim that it's partially real.

[Sal DiStefano]

Here's what happens. Here's what happens with Ayurvedic or Chinese medicine. Sometimes people will take something, and what they expect, they don't expect to feel great results. They think like, oh, I think it's feeling better. I think it's helping. Supposed to help me. And we sometimes expect that from those kinds of compounds. I'm gonna tell you straight up, if you take real shilajit, you'll feel it. Within 30 days, you'll know you're taking real. So if you're taking a product that says shilajit and you've been taking it for two months and you notice nothing, you notice no difference whatsoever. Probably fake. Probably fake because it's one of those things that you.

[Doug]

Well, I mean, I feel a lot of people. I feel the same thing about the red light. Like, if you stand in front of that red light consistently three times a week for 10, 12 minutes, I mean.

[Sal DiStefano]

That should be the case for anything, right? Do or take.

[Unknown]

So. But back to the omega 3 fatty acids. Like, I was actually wondering about this because I was like, oh, man, I'm so, like, mad at myself half the time because I'm not into fish. And I would go through these.

[Sal DiStefano]

Yeah.

[Unknown]

These cycles where I'm, like, trying to reintroduce it. I'm like, well, I can handle salmon. You know, I can handle some of these things. And then it's like I'm getting all this conflicting information now that basically all the fish we're getting now are. Have, like, these heavy metals in them and, like, super toxic.

[Sal DiStefano]

This is why. This is why I said sardines. So sardines are very low. So the fish that eat lots of fish so you guys, swordfish, that's like a big predator fish because of the amount of fish it consumes. High levels sardines, very low, Very, very low in heavy metals. One of the safest, cleanest types of fish that you can really.

[Unknown]

You want to prey interest the prey.

[Sal DiStefano]

Yeah. Oh yeah. Swordfish. If I'm not mistaken, the amount of mercury and swordfish. I think you wouldn't. You should.

[Unknown]

Alarming, right?

[Sal DiStefano]

I think it's like once a month, I think. Yeah. Consume it at most or something like that. I don't know, Doug, maybe you can look this up.

[Unknown]

Yeah, look at. Because it. I keep thinking about that. Not to mention like the red tide and like some things we get this, this, this bacteria, algae that like stays in your system and so anyway.

[Sal DiStefano]

Well, dude, if you just bought high EPA, you know, omega 3 fatty acids and took.

[Unknown]

That's what I mean, supplements every day, the move for me.

[Sal DiStefano]

You're totally fine. Swordfish is considered a high mercury fish. How often do they say you're supposed to.

[Adam Schaefer]

They say consuming it, it could lead to mercury poisoning.

[Sal DiStefano]

Yeah, they won't let like pregnant women are not supposed to eat swordfish, which sucks. Swordfish is delicious. Yeah, it's actually like. It's the, it's the meaty.

[Doug]

Meaty.

[Sal DiStefano]

It's the most meat like fish. That's why I like it. Yeah, that's right.

[Unknown]

Like that. I like fish sticks.

[Sal DiStefano]

That doesn't count.

[Doug]

Yeah.

[Sal DiStefano]

You know, speaking of like the brain and health and stuff like that, Justin, you shared that interesting data on creatine and head trauma.

[Doug]

Yeah.

[Sal DiStefano]

Which is.

[Unknown]

Yeah, I got that from Dr. Andy Galpin. And because of concussions, I'm always like pretty interested in, in latest science for treatments and things like that. And you know, preventatively, I guess there's this. What do you call it, secondary impact syndrome or something like that. So after. I guess a lot of the damage comes, not just the first concussion, but it's. It's the head trauma afterwards.

[Sal DiStefano]

It's the second, second or third. It's far more damaging compounding.

[Unknown]

Right.

[Sal DiStefano]

So.

[Unknown]

So it. Apparently they studied whether or not like they were deficient or they had, you know, a good amount of creatine. And it, it was substantially different like the amount of damage. You got a lot more damage if you didn't have creatine.

[Sal DiStefano]

Protective.

[Unknown]

It's very protective.

[Sal DiStefano]

If you play a sport that involves some risk of head trauma or you're an athlete, you, you have, you should have to take creatine.

[Unknown]

I wish, I wish I would have taken A lot more. I mean consistently.

[Doug]

I kind of feel like that's every sport. Name a sport, it comes to mind where you. Yeah, that's. I mean every sport that has a ball, you could potentially get hit in the head with the ball. So it makes sense there any sport where you're, you're running, I mean, you trip hit your head, I mean really.

[Sal DiStefano]

It'S just providing, it's like a no.

[Doug]

Brainer for any athlete.

[Sal DiStefano]

It's just providing more energy for your cells, which includes your brain. And when you have lots of available ATP and you have trauma, the healing process is going to be much better. If your energy depleted and then you have an injury, you're screwed. So I think that's what it's.

[Doug]

I'm assuming that's why the football protocol is right after they get, they have this protocol of concussion, they can't play for at least another day or week or like that, depending on it. Yeah.

[Unknown]

Yes. Because those, yeah.

[Doug]

Proceeding the preceding one more than really what has happened. Damage is done. It's just that. But it has compounding effects later on.

[Sal DiStefano]

Yep, yep. Speaking of compounding effects, I gotta tell you man, I talk about eating your, your previous words. You know, I, the when, when they were talking back in the day here in California over cannabis legalization, I was this huge proponent and I said it's not gonna cause more problems and it's not gonna get more people to smoke it and being illegal makes it more attractive and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And it turns out I was completely wrong.

[Doug]

Really.

[Sal DiStefano]

It's super wrong. The cannabis use has skyrocketed in places in states where it's legalized. Skyrocketed. And now there's data showing, I mean not great stuff at all.

[Doug]

So before you go, let me poke holes in that because it's like who, when it's illegal, okay. Who is raising their hand and going like I'm smoking the illegal drug like, like right now? We could not, no, I don't care what anybody says. We could not get a good gauge of how many people do cocaine.

[Sal DiStefano]

Yeah.

[Doug]

Just fact. Why? Because it's illegal. We're not, we're not measuring transactions. We have no systems. Ain't nobody raising their hand, you know, measuring.

[Unknown]

Pinky nail.

[Doug]

Yeah, yeah, we're not doing any of that. So then if all of a sudden cocaine, cocaine was legalized tomorrow and the regular cocaine user could go down to a pharmacy and it's now being tracked because it's being taxed and we said you would show massive increase now that's.

[Sal DiStefano]

Just want to now that's logical. But that's not how they're measuring it. How they're measuring it is people admitting themselves to rehab. So people used to admit themselves to rehab for cannabis. What they call marijuana abuse syndrome. Or that was that. That never made the top 10 with rehab facilities.

[Doug]

Okay. So that's interesting.

[Sal DiStefano]

As it's become legalized. Okay. Over the years, these people dabbing or like, do you. Oh, bro, do you want to. So, okay, I'll trip you. Trip, trip you out.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Sal DiStefano]

So marijuana use disorder is what they call it. People are addicted. People are actually going to rehab. They're themselves saying, I need help with this.

[Doug]

Yeah.

[Sal DiStefano]

On the list of drugs or substances that send people to rehab, where do you think marijuana falls?

[Doug]

I mean, before this or now?

[Sal DiStefano]

Now.

[Doug]

Well, now you're saying it. You already told us it's already high. I would have guessed it way low in the first place.

[Sal DiStefano]

It's third.

[Unknown]

Third.

[Sal DiStefano]

It's the third most common.

[Doug]

What's one and two?

[Sal DiStefano]

Oh, one is alcohol. Alcohol and then nicotine, believe it or not, but nicotine people check themselves in rehab, not rehab, but they count people who say, I'm addicted and I need help.

[Doug]

Okay, so wait a second, Sal, are they counting the marijuana people?

[Sal DiStefano]

No, this is, this is. This is. If you look at the. So if you look at the amount of people now going to. And we can actually ask our friends at Rock Recovery about this. I would love to ask them.

[Doug]

We are definitely gonna ask, like, have.

[Sal DiStefano]

You seen a rise in people who come to you?

[Doug]

Because how does this study show one but not the other? I don't understand how you're saying that they put cigarettes as two because I.

[Sal DiStefano]

Think because cigarettes have always been been legal that they can see how many, you know, how addicted people are. Alcohol, they're using. People who are reporting self reporting.

[Unknown]

These are just legal drugs.

[Sal DiStefano]

Yes.

[Doug]

Yeah.

[Sal DiStefano]

No, no. They have opiates on here too. Inhalants are number five. Heroin's not.

[Doug]

I would have thought opiates would have been higher. Yeah, I would have thought I would have done alcohol one, opiates too, but I didn't want to.

[Unknown]

Fentanyl. Yeah.

[Doug]

I wouldn't have guessed cigarettes are in there. And I wouldn't have guessed that cigarettes is just self reported. I'm addicted because of course that's high. And I also think, by the way, if they're measuring this by people reporting that I'm addicted to marijuana, that like, for example, they do surveys that say, do you use marijuana more than five times? A week. And if you do, you're considered addicted to marijuana. And a bunch of people would say, I use marijuana more than five times a week. And now that's where this is coming from.

[Unknown]

People that use it like every day.

[Doug]

Yes.

[Sal DiStefano]

Yeah.

[Unknown]

That won't think they have 100%.

[Doug]

So, I mean, well, I'm. Your studies flawed.

[Sal DiStefano]

Well, well. So here's the deal. So I did look not to burst your bubble. I did look it up, and I did.

[Unknown]

We know it's not good for memory.

[Sal DiStefano]

Right. Highlighted that. I forgot the study. No, I did, I did. I did read a lot of articles about rehab facility center saying it is.

[Doug]

It is quite a bit. To me, that is the best gauge for this because that's. If people are checking into rehab centers to help them out with. That's a big. That's a big sign because I don't think anyone's checking themselves into rehab centers for cigarettes.

[Sal DiStefano]

No, no, no.

[Doug]

So I don't, I don't think there's. And I don't think there's a lot of cigarettes, and I don't think there's a lot of people checking themselves in for marijuana either. But I could be wrong. And so hearing from rock recovery from those guys or them, and they tell me like, yeah, Adam, we've seen, you know, a huge rise, then I would be very shocked. And then that would carry weight to this conversation. But if, if they don't, then I think self reporting. Are you addicted? And then, of course, you know, smoking marijuana on a, On a. Three to five times a day or more, if that's what they categorize as addicted is.

[Sal DiStefano]

So Yale medicine. So this is based off of Yale medicine. They did a study and they said that 10% who beat people who begin smoking cannabis will form an addiction or Cannabis use disorder. 30% of current users meet the criteria for cannabis addiction. Yeah. So that's pretty.

[Doug]

I would probably meet that.

[Sal DiStefano]

So the CDC reports that approximately 3 to 10. Anyway, my point with. It isn't necessarily that, although I do think it's interesting. I would love to hear the guys from rock recovery. I'd like to like. Because they, they, they do this like, okay, how often do you see this?

[Doug]

Yeah.

[Sal DiStefano]

And has it increased? Right. But here's the crazy part. We're seeing. We're now having studies on schizophrenia. So, you know, they used to say how there might be a connection between cannabis use and schizophrenia. Schizophrenia, since the legalization of cannabis, has tripled. And they think they're, They're. They're making the connection to cannabis.

[Unknown]

It's like an epigenetic sort of factor to that where it just.

[Sal DiStefano]

The way it affects the brain over time, it can induce mental illness.

[Doug]

What else. What else increases schizophrenia to things like Adderall and ADD type medications?

[Unknown]

I think psychedelics too. They've found certain.

[Sal DiStefano]

That's a good question. And I think cannabis is listed as a psychedelic, if I'm not mistaken. I don't know about Adderall, but methamphetamine, sure.

[Unknown]

Well, because I know DMT approach.

[Doug]

Well, the reason why I say that is what has been the rise in the last decade. Decade with your kids are getting medication like that. Like crazy. Compared to just where it was 10 years.

[Sal DiStefano]

Yes, there are but the date, the data on it's con. So Doug, if you like, if you type in marijuana and schizophrenia, we have pretty good studies now that show that it. It's a risk.

[Doug]

Again, not saying that it. There's not situations where we're. But again, a broad study like that, when we have things like Adderall being prescribed at much higher rates than we ever had in previous decades.

[Sal DiStefano]

Yeah, I don't think that's good either, of course.

[Doug]

No, I, I think that's way more likely to cause schizophrenia than marijuana use. Also.

[Sal DiStefano]

I don't know if there's a connection between the two, to be honest with you. I don't know if there's a connection between Adderall and schizophrenia that they've made. I could see where you're going with that because I think the strong forms like people use. Meth, that's a, That's a common.

[Doug]

The regular. I'll never forget the first time I tried an Adderall pill as an adult.

[Unknown]

It was.

[Sal DiStefano]

You had schizophrenia.

[Doug]

No, but I mean, I mean maybe a little.

[Sal DiStefano]

Maybe a little bit.

[Doug]

You know what I'm saying? Like it is strong.

[Sal DiStefano]

Who are you talking to, Adam? I don't know. What did that say there, Doug?

[Adam Schaefer]

According to this, young men at the highest risk for schizophrenia linked with cannabis use.

[Sal DiStefano]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's pretty. It's pretty. It's pretty wild. The. Yeah, and I'd love to hear from. By the way. They're just. We got to say this Rock Recovery does a scholarship. I think they're doing it this month where you. If you go to their site maybe Doug, you can get me their link here so I can read it off properly. If you go to their site, they.

[Doug]

You.

[Sal DiStefano]

You can enter in to win a free scholarship. It's a $50,000 from Not Mistaken scholarship to go and get rehab And I think it's like four months, if I'm not mistaken. Yes. Is that it?

[Unknown]

Okay.

[Adam Schaefer]

No, it's actually longer than that.

[Sal DiStefano]

It's longer than that. It's like pretty awesome. And by the way, everybody gets help. So they don't, you know, somebody.

[Adam Schaefer]

Four months, is that what you said?

[Sal DiStefano]

Yeah, I did four months. What's the link for them?

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah, it's rockrecoverycenter.com forward/mindpump.

[Sal DiStefano]

Yeah, there you go.

[Doug]

Okay, so back to this debate.

[Sal DiStefano]

Yeah, it doesn't.

[Doug]

So it doesn't. It says it doesn't directly cause schizophrenia, but it can exacerbate the symptoms of the disorder, leading to misdiagnosis or worsening of symptoms. What is weed doing? Is we directly affecting schizophrenia that's inducing it.

[Sal DiStefano]

So people who didn't have it. That's right.

[Unknown]

Now, same mechanism there. Like.

[Doug]

Well, okay, here I also would want.

[Sal DiStefano]

Let me ask you guys this. Okay. Have you ever had so much weed that you went crazy? Yes. Everybody in here.

[Unknown]

Paranoia.

[Sal DiStefano]

Has a story. Yes, you have a story.

[Unknown]

Schizophrenia means close.

[Sal DiStefano]

I mean, it'll induce insanity. I mean, I, you know, I told. I have a story.

[Doug]

Well, I also just.

[Sal DiStefano]

I literally felt like I was going crazy.

[Doug]

I mean, Justin also brought something up that. That is, I think, also important to note is that since the legalization, the popular. So back in the days, okay, 70s, 80s, when marijuana was also rampant and popular, even when it was, quote, unquote, became illegal, it was pretty much weed between 5 and 11 THC levels. And concentration matters. And hashish would maybe break 20%. Okay.

[Sal DiStefano]

Yeah.

[Doug]

We now have your joints. Your basic strain of marijuana carries 20 to 30% THC, which is stronger than hashish back then. And now you got kids that are dabbing at levels at 90% crazy. I mean, you wonder.

[Unknown]

That's a problem.

[Doug]

Yeah, that is absolutely a problem. And what happens when you legalize something like marijuana? You have irresponsible. You get a market, you get irresponsible kids that start smoking and more and.

[Unknown]

More starting with the vaping.

[Doug]

That's right. And then the next thing you know, you were dabbing and you're taking in 90. And then. And then they're all connected. It's all derivative of marijuana. And I'm sure it would. Absolutely. Now that I bet your ass that's what they're saying.

[Sal DiStefano]

Yeah, that's one of the reasons they're saying is that the strength and the potency has gone up and the amount that people are using. But what you get with that, with that decriminalization and legalization is you get the market competing for these consumers now. And the best way to compete is to make a strongest.

[Doug]

No, you're right.

[Sal DiStefano]

And I look, I tell you.

[Unknown]

Yeah, well, since the demand.

[Sal DiStefano]

Yeah, I mean, look, year, you know, over 10 years ago, I had a family member with cancer and this is when I got into learning about cannabis because I was trying to help her through her chemo and all that stuff. And I would go to these dispensaries and the high. This was. God, this was like 13 years ago. Maybe the high. The strains that were high in THC were like 17%. That was the high strain. 20% was like, oh my God. Like now I think that's like you said, the average is in the 20s.

[Doug]

Yeah, yeah.

[Sal DiStefano]

And some of the highest, 30%, they're just breeding them to be ridiculously, ridiculously strong.

[Doug]

And you're right. And the consumers have demanded that. Why? Because there's a very small percentage of the consumer that are doing it for medical purposes or for some mild reason. 80 to 90% are recreational users that are using it. When you ran clubs like I did, you were obviously, in order for the business to operate, you need consumers, you need to have them coming through. And I remember this because I was one of the few clubs at the time that was really trying to do everything above board and be real professional and be like a medical office. And we were really trying to change the industry. And it made it really difficult when 80% of your customers that are coming in, like, which one is gonna me up? Which one's 10, which one is a 10 doser? And they didn't care.

[Unknown]

Questions.

[Doug]

They didn't care. They didn't care. No, I'm serious. And they didn't care if it was saran wrapped and baked in someone's kitchen, so long as it was so powerful versus the one that I could tell them was organically made and it was dosed properly and it was medical. It was, it's like, no, no butane. But if I, but if I had one that was saran wrapped and, and someone made in their kitchen and made it, you know, 10 times as strong and it was half the price. It was like that's where that would sell out and that's what everybody wanted. And so then you have these clubs that are competing because they're for profit, you know, that are competing against each other, like that drives the market. And then you have this, and this is the outcome of that as, as it starts to extend out over time.

[Sal DiStefano]

Well, I. So different topic. I have some stats on people's smartphone usage, which I think are interesting. And the reason. What sparked me to.

[Doug]

I think that's far more dangerous.

[Sal DiStefano]

Huh.

[Doug]

I think that's.

[Sal DiStefano]

Oh, well. What sparked me to go in this direction was combo of the two is really. My wife and I have been talking about getting off our phones more. And my, my 4 year old pointed this out the other day. You know, you're distracted on your phone, which. Oh, God. When you hear that from your kid, like tears your heart out. So her and I are trying to make these strategies and, you know, how do you come off of them and be more present? And it just pulls you. And they're engineered to do so. The smartest scientists in the world right now are figuring out how to make these so addictive. It's like the processed food market. It's just insane. But the stats on this are most.

[Unknown]

Like TikTok did really well.

[Doug]

Isn't that, Isn't that. Isn't that what happened? The best of the best were in cigarettes. Then they went to food, processed foods. And now they've moved to tech.

[Sal DiStefano]

Yep.

[Unknown]

Yeah. They've learned everything from gambling casinos.

[Sal DiStefano]

So the average person in the US is on their phones for 4 hours and 43 minutes.

[Doug]

I think that's so low.

[Sal DiStefano]

That's the average.

[Doug]

I think it's so low.

[Sal DiStefano]

Check this out. Since 2019, it was 3 hours and 45 minutes. Today it's 4 hours. Went up an hour. So it's going up. It continues to go up. And it's pretty wild. The average. Ready for this? The average smartphone user checks their phone 58 times a day. So yeah, this is something we need to be careful with. And I don't think you can manage.

[Doug]

It, you know a good way just.

[Sal DiStefano]

By thinking about it.

[Doug]

You know, a good way to, you know, a good generic way. We're always talking about like simple hacks to like test things or measure things like. Because like how many people are like really tracking that Your cell phone, the way they've made iPhone batteries with that should not die.

[Unknown]

Yeah, I was gonna make that point. Same thing. If your battery dies on your phone, you got an addiction.

[Doug]

Yes.

[Unknown]

If you should not be.

[Doug]

If you have to. If you have to put your phone on the charger before you go to bed, you are using your phone way too much, in my opinion.

[Sal DiStefano]

Wow.

[Doug]

And I, And I'm saying that from experience. Like, I've had times where I know that I was just working on my phone all day, texting, email, whatever, even scroll, like all day long. When I'm on that, it'll die before 5, 6 o'clock. Like I'll have to put, I'll have to look at. Oh, shit, my battery's almost dead. So if you were using almost an entire battery on your phone, like that is a lot of.

[Unknown]

I just had that discussion with my son. That's funny. Bring that up.

[Doug]

Yeah, it's like a good gauge, right? It's like you should not have to like use.

[Unknown]

His battery died and it was like, oh, it didn't charge fully or whatever like excuse he had. But I'm like, it's dead now. You don't use it, you don't need to use it. If you, if you're in a point where you're using your phone that much throughout the day, you know, and you're trying to justify it like it's, that's way too much. You know, you're, you're consuming way too much.

[Sal DiStefano]

Yeah, what we did is we're, what we're trying is she's literally turning off all notifications and everything from 7am till, till the evening. And, and we'll see if that works. The way that I do it when I'm home is I'll take my phone and put it in a drawer, close the door and that just creates a little barrier. If I don't do that, it just.

[Unknown]

They hang it up when they get in the house.

[Sal DiStefano]

It pulls to you, man. It pulls to you.

[Unknown]

So it's tough.

[Sal DiStefano]

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[Adam Schaefer]

Sign [e-mail] Our first caller is Bonnie from South Carolina.

[Sal DiStefano]

Bonnie, what's happening?

[Doug]

Hey.

[Unknown]

Hey guys. Thanks for having me on. This is such an honor. And thank you for your time. So my question is essentially is it bad to lift with an RPE of 8 or 9 every time I work out? I've been consistently lifting weights for the last four to five to six years and I love to challenge myself every time I repeat a workout by either increasing the weight or the RPE. I usually have an RPE of 8 or 9 every time I lift. Some days I will feel sore after a workout, but not always. On the workouts where I don't increase weights, it's usually because I can't maintain proper form for the entire set. So I do think that I am really pushing myself. I work out at home in the mornings before work and I have completed maps aesthetic anabolic performance 15 and anabolic advanced. I'm currently in week one of Muscle Mommy and really enjoying that. My favorite program so far has been aesthetic and I did not feel like it was too much volume for me over the last year. I have been in a slight cut for three months and then I stayed at or slightly above maintenance for the last nine months. My body fat started at 33% last January and then I went down to 30% after my cut, but it recently crept back up to 33% after I felt like I was over training. My sleep and my stress have been terrible this year, which also has kept me from meeting my goal, which was 25% body fat. In my cut I was at 1709 calories with protein at 120 grams. Fat was less than 55 grams and carbs at 200 grams. I went up to 2000 calories during maintenance with about 250 grams being at carbs. My waist size started to increase and I also increased my body fat during that time. I'm really frustrated because I'm doing what I think I should be doing in the gym and my nutrition goals are set by a trainer that I check in with each month. I'm tempted to go back into a cut to see the results that I'm after. My goals are 25% body fat or have more defined abs with a waist circumference of 31 inches or less. I'm not really concerned about my weight on the scale, but I average about 150 pounds at 30% body fat. I was 145, so again my steps are 8 to 10,000 per day. I'm 42 years old and a former CrossFit addict, so just wanted to know if I'm right on the right track. My current macros right now are 1670 calories protein 110 grams, carbs 184 grams and fat 55 grams.

[Sal DiStefano]

Okay, you're low. Yeah. Everything you'd be doing, ex CrossFit addict. Also based off of what you're telling me about sleep and stress and the.

[Doug]

Fact that you said also active person, loves aesthetic.

[Sal DiStefano]

I mean all the stuff naps aesthetic is, you know, didn't feel like over training. I also see you in uniform and because I've been doing this for so long, I can pretty accurately guess that you tend to over train and you're probably over trained, you're probably overdoing everything. That's probably your tendency.

[Doug]

And simultaneously. Okay, you have to understand too that because what you're doing isn't sound horrible, low, bad over training, but the combination of stress, not good sleep, that low of that low of fat you're eating nutritionally and I already know you're an active person, you're not a sedentary lazy person without you even giving me your details of all day long. So in that context you are over trained. So understand that because I think sometimes somebody will be like, man, I used to do CrossFit, I did all this crazy shit. Now I'm following your math programs and I'm not crazy extreme. Yeah, but in the context of where you're currently at in your life with sleep, stress, activity and in with that low calorie, it's, it's caused, it's over training. Less is going to be more for you as far as results.

[Sal DiStefano]

Why is your sleep bad? Explain. Give us a little bit of detail on that.

[Unknown]

I have a 4 year old son who likes to wake up every night and it's difficult just getting into a routine with him. It's erratic. He'll wake up sometimes at 1, sometimes at 2, sometimes at 3:12. It just depends on how he's sleeping. And I travel quite a bit for work, so that's hard for me to get into a good sleep routine as well because I've got four states that I'm in charge of. So I'm constantly somewhere, I'm going somewhere every week.

[Sal DiStefano]

Usually the best advice I could give you for sleep in that sense would be to go to bed an hour and a half or two hours earlier than you normally do to give yourself the buffer of kid waking me up and the travel. So most people it's like okay, go to bed about eight and a half hours before you want to wake up. That's, that's pretty standard for most people, sometimes a little less. But if you're gonna get waking, woken up in the middle of the night, and you travel a lot. You probably want to go to bed about nine and a half hours before bed, and if you can, even 10 hours before, because you'll get that wake up in the middle and it's not going to harm you as much. The sleep, the lack of sleep, the cumulative effects of a little bit of lack of sleep completely derail your ability to recover, build muscle, burn body. Your body wants to hold on to body fat. It makes workouts just too much, too much damage on the body. So that'd be the first place I would go. The second place is I would bump your fat.

[Doug]

Yes, yes.

[Sal DiStefano]

Very rarely do I have a woman go as low as 50 grams or 55 grams of body fat. Most the women I've ever worked with, 65 to 70, would be the lowest I would go. And they just seem to get better results. Fat's essential, especially, you know, especially for hormones and your nervous system. So I'd bump your fat a little bit. I wouldn't go into deficit Muscle mommy. The volume is not bad, so you could try that. But you probably are better off backing off and going like maps 15. Improving your sleep. Once you start to feel great, then go back up to back to muscle mommy. And what you'll see in that is not a ton of results. Initially, you'll just start to feel better, and then you'll start to feel better, feel better, feel better. And then you'll start to notice, oh, wow, my body's starting to respond again. And then that's when you know you're really moving in the right direction.

[Doug]

The hardest part for you, Bonnie, is going to be doing the right thing for long enough to let your body completely recover and then respond the way you want it to. And being patient, right, that's gonna be the hardest thing.

[Sal DiStefano]

You.

[Doug]

Your body has adapted to your level of intensity, and it's. It's very resilient, and it's been able to survive through this. And so feeding it, reducing the volume and intensity for a while. Like Sal saying, you're not gonna see this initial, like, oh, guys told me to just bump my calories and go to Mass 15. And I said, well, no, you're not gonna see it right away. You'll just start feeling better, sleeping better, and then you need to hang there for a little bit before we go and try and ramp up the intensity. I would love to see, if you were my client, I would put you on Maps 15. I'd bump your calories slightly, and I Do it through fat. And we would do that for at least a month or two in that direction before I let you go back the other direction. And the goal really would be, can we not put on any more body fat, but slowly increase your calories and get you to a place more like 26, 2800 plus calories. And maintaining your sleeping well, feeling good, maintaining your body fat percentage and weight right around there, while also increasing calories. That would get you in a good place to go back and cut and then. And then pick up a little bit of volume or intensity.

[Sal DiStefano]

Yeah. By the way, some of the signs of overtraining are poor sleep. But it can also look like this. Your kid wakes you up, you get them back down, Maybe they lie in bed with you, and then it takes you forever to go back to sleep, or sometimes you can't go back to sleep. That's also a sign of over training. So what it should be like. Unless, of course, your kid's actually actively keeping you awake. But what it should be like is your kid walks in your room, wakes you up 15 minutes, get him settled, maybe go back in his bed, maybe lays in bed with you, and then you're able to fall back asleep. But if you find yourself kind of like amped first, like, you can't get back to sleep, and I'm tossing and turning. That's. That's. That's a sign that your. Your body's overstressed.

[Unknown]

Yeah. I usually don't have an issue falling back to sleep, so.

[Sal DiStefano]

Good.

[Unknown]

Well, that's good.

[Sal DiStefano]

Good.

[Doug]

That's good.

[Sal DiStefano]

Good. But I. But everything else, I think we still follow exactly what we're saying, and I think what you'll see is you'll start to feel stronger, starting to feel better. Definitely the direction is not to do more and cut for sure. If you do more and cut, you're gonna set yourself up in a pretty bad way, but just kind of back off, let everything heal a little bit, see if we can get the sleep to get better. And then after, like Adam said, four weeks, eight weeks, then we'll go maps, muscle, mommy, maybe start cutting the calories down a little bit. And then you should see your body responding pretty well and feel good.

[Unknown]

Okay, Now, I've done maps 15 before. I did the advanced version. As far as, like, the. Going back to my question, the rpe, should I. Should I be, like, taking the weights back down a little bit, just focusing on a moderate intensity instead of trying to really push the weight? Because I really like to maintain what I've done in the past or challenge myself even more.

[Doug]

You're not gonna lose.

[Sal DiStefano]

You won't lose it.

[Doug]

Increasing your calories and giving yourself more healthy fats and following maps 15 advanced without training a failure or trying to push crazy. You'll, you'll maintain every bit of muscle you have. You're not going to lose, you're definitely not going to lose. Recovery, reverse dieting and training that program and hopefully if we do this right, you organically get stronger and the weights go up over weeks. Right. Like you shouldn't have to train to failure and struggle every workout as hard as you can to just to see the weight slowly increase. Hopefully you stop 2, 2 reps from failure and just feel good after your workouts. But you notice after weeks two or three, oh wow, the weights on the bar is going up. That's what I'd want to see. Not you pushing to get the more weight on the bar. The body just going like, oh, this is getting easier for me because you've taken care of it that way. So don't fear the reduction in intensity is going, your body won't lose that muscle. Not in a calorie surplus. And taking care of yourself, rest like you're going to maintain at the bare minimum if not gain. Yeah.

[Unknown]

I think that's the experiment we'd love to see you go through because you know, giving your body more of that space and the adequate time to recover, you're going to notice that you're going to increase strength just from that alone. Like pressing yourself as one method.

[Doug]

Right.

[Unknown]

But until it doesn't work for you. And that's, that's part of the formula. But if you're not recovering, we're not going to advance, we're not going to progress. And so to progress we really need to focus on the ability to get that recovery.

[Sal DiStefano]

Yeah. And just to make you feel better, I mean the data on this is pretty clear. Like keeping muscle requires very little.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Sal DiStefano]

It requires very little to keep muscle. So I wouldn't worry about it at all. And even if you did lose a little strength, it would come back and then some so fast after getting your body back on track. But the other side of, of this coin is if you stay on the path you are now, you're going to start to lose strength and muscle.

[Doug]

Yeah.

[Sal DiStefano]

So it's really not like a, you know, my opinion, it's a no brainer.

[Doug]

Bonnie, are you.

[Unknown]

Yeah, I've already noticed a little bit of decrease in my strength from a deadlift perspective.

So.

[Doug]

Yeah.

[Sal DiStefano]

Yep, yep, yep.

[Doug]

Bonnie, are you in our private forum?

[Unknown]

I don't believe I am. No.

[Doug]

I'm gonna.

[Unknown]

On Facebook.

[Doug]

Yeah. Yeah. I'm gonna have. I'm gonna have Doug send that to you. So you're in there with us. And then as you go through this process, because I. I know the part that'll be hard for you, it's not. You're not the type of person. It's hard to follow instruction and, and go through. It's the mental part of being patient. Yeah. Not going hard. So I'm going to put you in there, and I want you to use it like that to check in with us. Even if you're frustrated as you're going through this process or you, you know, you have the temptation to want to do more, just check in with us, let us know how you're feeling, what's going on, and then hopefully we'll help you get through this. Okay.

[Unknown]

Thanks, guys. I appreciate it.

[Sal DiStefano]

You got it.

[Doug]

Thank you.

[Sal DiStefano]

Yeah.

[Doug]

It's so hard. This is, I'd say, one of the hardest types of clients to help because, you know, someone like that, you know she's disciplined.

[Unknown]

Go get her.

[Doug]

Yeah. You know, she's disciplined.

[Sal DiStefano]

Her concept intolerance of over training, over stress is different.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Sal DiStefano]

So for her to be like, I didn't feel like I was over training. You, you. You have a strong tolerance.

[Unknown]

You can push through, press further than most people.

[Sal DiStefano]

That's right. That's right. So, and look, especially my. I've trained quite a few women who also served in the military, and like clockwork, they all go towards beating the crap out of themselves. They all skew in that direction.

[Doug]

Yeah.

[Sal DiStefano]

So it's very difficult to bring them back.

[Adam Schaefer]

Our next caller is Elijah from Arkansas.

[Sal DiStefano]

What's up, man?

[Doug]

How you doing?

[Unknown]

Good.

[Sal DiStefano]

How are you? Good. How can we help you?

[Unknown]

So my protein intake is 200 grams. My calories is at 26,000. Sometimes I find myself hitting my. My protein target, like, very easy, but I'll only eat like 1700 grams or. Or 1700 calories or like 1800 calories. So I leave a lot on the table. So I was wondering, am I okay with continue doing that or should I try to hit that 26,0002633 calories?

[Sal DiStefano]

Yeah.

[Doug]

What's the goal? What's the goal?

[Sal DiStefano]

What's your goal and how tall and how much you weigh?

[Unknown]

I'm five nine. I weigh. I think I weigh 223 right now. My goal was to build muscle, so I just took it in home like two two weeks ago, I'm at 100. I'm at 100 skeletal muscle and 26,6% body fat. So I was looking to cut after this, but I wanted to see what. I was going to wait and see what, what I should do first.

[Sal DiStefano]

Protein's important, but so are calories. And you're not. First of all, how are you hitting 16, 1700 calories, 200 grams of protein? What are you eating? Like tilapia and chicken breasts, basically?

[Unknown]

Yeah, like little vegetables.

[Sal DiStefano]

No, no, no. You need fat too. I. So, so the calories are important. Just like protein is. You can have enough protein, but your calories are so low that your body's gonna use that protein for energy, not for repair. And you need fat and carbohydrates, but fats especially as well, so. And 1700 calories is really low for a guy your size. I think sticking around 25, 2600 calories is fine. You should be able to get a nice recomp with that little muscle, some fat loss at the same time. But the way I would do it is I would just introduce fattier cuts of meat. You know, get some more fats in there. You know, stay away from the. Yeah, you're doing like the pre contest bodybuilder sources of protein, which is weird. Like, most people would do that on purpose. You know what I'm saying? Yeah, but I would go with like, you know, fattier, like fattier cuts of meat and chicken and fish and throwing some nuts in there, some olive oil on the vegetables, add some more rice or whatever your carb sources are. Keep it around 2500. Be consistent with that.

[Doug]

Elijah, how. What, what maps program are you following right now?

[Unknown]

I'm doing maps strong and then.

[Doug]

Okay, how you liking it? How's the consistency for you on it? Is it your first maps program? You ran other ones?

[Unknown]

I've done anabolic. Anabolic advance bands aesthetic Strong, by far, is my favorite. Just because it resembles a lot of what I used to do back in, like high school and college and playing, like doing football and stuff. So it gives it. It keeps me very consistent. And I like that, that five days a week and those two days off.

[Doug]

Yeah. If you're, if you're, consistent with that, we need to feed you like you. You need to get those calories up. And I'm with sal. The easiest way to do that, to not overcomplicate it, is just give yourself fattier cuts, you know, tri tip, rib eye, like, enjoy some meat that, that those healthy fats are only going to serve You. And the focus really would be right now on reverse dieting, getting strong. You know, that would be the goal before we even consider cutting, because I'd like to see you. A cut is more like 22. 2, 300 calories. That would be a cut. And in order for that to be a cut, we need to get you up over 2, 600 calories consistently in order for 20, 22 to be a cut. And so that would be. The main focus, is getting those calories up, focusing on and getting strong in the gym for a while. You're obviously doing good with the protein. And again, the. The. The easy advice would be just enjoy some fattier meats.

[Sal DiStefano]

Yeah. Instead of, like, chicken breasts, you know, I would go chicken thighs with the skin, fattier cuts of meat. Instead of egg whites, eat the whole egg. You know, instead of tilapia, you could go to salmon, you know, throwing some nuts, some avocado.

[Doug]

I'm assuming you're pretty low carb, too, on that. That low calories, too, Are you? Low carb? Carb. You're not. You getting carbs in here and there?

[Unknown]

Yeah, it's. I mainly just eat rice. I don't eat as much bread because bread, like, really sticks to my body.

[Doug]

So, yeah, it makes me feel bloated. That's a good choice. I like that rice. Sweet potato yams, quinoa potatoes. All great sources. So, you know, stick to carbs like that. And, yeah, honestly, just continue to eat whole foods, but enjoy fattier meats and keep those pro. That pro or that calorie intake up. It's gonna be real hard for you to build, even if you're hitting your grams of protein hard to build a guy your size on only 16, 1700 calories, you know, hard. Yeah. Okay.

[Unknown]

Okay, that makes sense. I just thought maybe I was good because I still was building muscle, and I felt me building strength with me hitting that protein intake. So I thought I was good, but I wanted to check in to make.

[Sal DiStefano]

Sure you'll feel even better. And you. I mean, the fact that you're still responding is a good sign.

[Doug]

Yeah, that's a real good sign.

[Sal DiStefano]

So if you stay consistent, 2500 calories. Yeah. You can respond even better.

[Unknown]

Okay, cool, cool, cool.

[Doug]

Elijah, are you in our private forum?

[Unknown]

No, I'm not.

[Doug]

I'm gonna have Doug hook you up with that so we can keep an eye on you. And you just check in with us as this goes.

[Unknown]

Okay? I appreciate that.

[Doug]

All right, brother.

[Sal DiStefano]

You got it, man. All right, Take it easy.

[Doug]

You guys have a good One you too.

[Sal DiStefano]

That's not as common for just for people watching but sometimes you'll see that that was more common back when I was a trainer when people are afraid of taking in, you know, eating fat because most people don't voluntarily eat, you know, boiled skinless chicken breasts and tilapia. But that's, that's, I mean that's why I saw what he wrote. 200 grams of protein, bodybuilder, 1700 calories. I'm like you're eating like just protein to make that happen? Yeah, yeah, that's really hard to do.

[Doug]

Chicken breast and fish like you said, gross.

[Unknown]

I mean that's pretty dry and yeah.

[Doug]

Unpleasant and it doesn't need to be that difficult, you know. You know we, we're obviously we, we constantly talk about how man if you just eat whole foods. Foods, right. Like a guy like this literally like just don't over complicate this. Continue eating the whole foods. Like because you're. You to stay that low in that higher protein, you're eating whole foods, right? So he's eating whole foods. Stick to that. But enjoy the fattier meats. It'll naturally bring the calories up. He's. They bring the fat up too. Low fat too. On a guy like you, we may be able to do it for a short period of time, but it'll make a difference. And, and he'll, he'll feel the difference.

[Sal DiStefano]

Messes up your hormones.

[Doug]

Oh yeah. Strength wise. So the fact that he actually had positive in that is just. He's going to see a huge difference.

[Adam Schaefer]

I think so our next caller is Danny from Nevada.

[Sal DiStefano]

Danny, what's up man?

[Doug]

What's going on?

[Sal DiStefano]

Danny, how can we help you?

[Unknown]

Hey guys. Good to see you guys again. Hey. So I am back for a second time calling in here. I called it about nine months ago because I was looking for some advice on how to balance time in the gym while also I was getting into the throes of training for my first ever half Iron man. And I was doing all that while also finishing up a PhD in mechanical engineering. So you guys kind of pointed me towards maps performance and I really appreciated that because the low volume there kind of really helped get that manage all those lifestyle stressors that I had going on. So in following what you suggested, I was able to obviously finish up the PhD which is great. And I also finished my Ironman 40 minutes faster than I had intended to. So anyways, all that to say is it worked out like a charm. So my new question here, fast forward nine months Later. Now that we're kind of in the winter months, I am still a very dedicated hobbyist athlete. I consider myself like almost a weekday warrior, is what I wrote in my email. Because I'm basically skiing every day. I do some jiu jitsu, you know, some combat sports. I'm also getting into a little bit of tactical training. So I was doing my PhD in Austin and I actually relocated to Reno, the Reno Tahoe area, to do a bunch of skiing. So I'm just across the mountains from you guys now, which is really exciting. But my question is basically, in short, I really enjoyed training and kind of that like, athlete style training, you know, some of those explosive movements, some sprints, some kettlebell ballistics, some of those isometric holds, the eccentric focus, stuff like that that comes with performance. And I think the volume is really well moderated for some of my other pursuits like the skiing and the combat sports and that. This, that and the other. So my question is basically as a quote unquote athlete, even if I'm not necessarily professional, it's just more hobbyist. I really like that style of training. Can someone like me, or I guess anyone who has some athletic goals just kind of run that type of training indefinitely? Or should I go ahead and mix in like a symmetry or something every 12 weeks? Or is that performance really just geared to kind of be running.

[Doug]

You're good forever.

[Sal DiStefano]

You're good.

[Doug]

I mean, you're good with that program.

[Sal DiStefano]

Okay, fine. You'd be fine with symmetry too. But performance is so well balanced and.

[Doug]

It'S so perfect for the amount of stuff he's doing right now. Because he's. He's talking about. He's talking about just so the audience. Fifteen performance. So that, that, that program perfect is perfect for somebody who, who's moving as much as you are already. I. Symmetry actually has a little bit more volume than that.

[Sal DiStefano]

Symmetry would be too much volume.

[Doug]

Yeah, you don't. So you don't even need that. I. I think it's a perfect program for you to run. And we do. Here's the reason we always tell people to every year to run at least one. One cycle of symmetry or performance. And the reason for that is to address multiplanar movements, unilateral work, stuff like that. That program addresses all of that in there. And because you're also doing a bunch of other.

[Unknown]

Doing it in real life anyways. Yeah, you're doing all those movements.

[Doug]

The perfect balance for you. Really. The only with you. If you were my client, the way I would be adjusting you is kind of more on a week to week basis off of the volume of other stuff you're doing. So let's say it's like just, you know, I'm sure you've had these crazy weeks where every day you're doing something crazy intense. I'm like, hey, let's scale back a little bit on the days this week of training and just do one day or whatever. And then days where you're not as crazy intense out there, we might do more. That's how I would play with the amount of map 15 you're doing per week. But that type of training you could do indefinitely with what you got going on.

[Sal DiStefano]

The only piece of advice I would have for you is if you ever go through a period where you're doing a lot less of the outdoor athletic pursuits and you're going to spend more time in the gym for whatever reason, but you like that style of training. You could go with our traditional maps for performance, which is not the 15 version but the more volume one. Or you could try fun programs like Strong or Old timey strength, which someone like you would love.

[Unknown]

Yeah, yeah.

You know, I just actually picked up Old time strength probably like three or four months ago and I haven't really investigated it yet, but it just.

[Doug]

Oh, you'll like.

[Unknown]

It seemed really cool. So, you know, maybe come the late spring, pre summer, you know, and there's still some snow on the ground but not enough to ski it. I'll look into doing something like that. That'd probably be pretty fun.

Wait till your activity levels kind of come down a bit and then devote a little bit more time and. And you're going to notice it. It's very involved, but it's like it's going to challenge your body in so many new ways. You're going to love it.

[Doug]

You'll get a kick out of it. Well, hey, what mountain are you riding up there?

[Unknown]

Oh God, I go, I kind of go all over the place. Right now I'm actually at. I'm in the lodge of Mount Rose, which is kind of a tiny little private mountain up.

[Doug]

Yep.

[Unknown]

Near Incline Village kind of. And then, you know, I'll go down to Heavenly. I'll do some of the South Lake stuff. I also ride Olympic Valley, like Palisades Alpine pretty frequently. And this season specifically I've been getting into more backcountry. So like hiking up, you know, where there's not actually a resort and then skiing down and wearing all my avalanche gear of course. So I'm not dying out There. But that's been really fun. I kind of go all over. I just.

[Doug]

Very cool.

[Unknown]

Wherever there's the best. No. Yeah.

[Sal DiStefano]

That's awesome. So you got 40 minutes better than you thought. That's remarkable. Yeah, that's not a little bit.

[Unknown]

So My goal was six hours. I finished in five, 25.

[Doug]

Wow.

[Unknown]

So it was great. I trained really well and I credit at least part of that to you guys.

[Doug]

Awesome.

[Sal DiStefano]

Good job, man. I love hearing it.

[Doug]

Yep.

[Unknown]

Yeah, definitely. Well, thanks for your time today. I do want to, if you don't mind, I want to share like just a quick little anecdote on how you guys have. Obviously you helped me out with Ironman but I realized kind of in hindsight that you guys helped me out with a. I know you guys hear all the time, oh, you've helped change my life for the better. But I have kind of a unique example of that just in listening to some of your guys's, I guess, ways of approaching training, growing up and like throughout my whole life, like a lot of people I have kind of dealt with like, you know, some anxiety, self confidence issues. Nothing new. Like everybody goes through that. And so last summer I decided, okay, I'm going to start working with a therapist and try to figure some of this stuff out, where it comes from. And so we were, I was talking with my first therapist about this notion of like self confidence and how to build it. And he told me one day, he was like, hey, here's how we're going to help your self confidence. What we're going to do first is strip away all of your self limiting beliefs and then work on the action of building that self confidence, taking action on it. And then he made this analogy and he was like, picture it as if you're obese and trying to get in shape. The first thing we're going to do is not build the muscle. We're going to do a bunch of cardio and try to strip all that weight off and put you in a calorie deficit. And my jaw literally dropped. I was like, oh shit, maybe this guy's got it totally backwards. So I ended up swapping therapists and working with a guy whose mantra is more like feelings follow action. So like building the muscle of confidence to get those feelings working for you, you know, having the evidence base that you can act confidently and the feelings follow and it's been like completely life changing. So I thought immediately of you guys.

[Doug]

When that got a great, what a great story. What a great, what a great story story.

[Unknown]

That's Been. That's been my last six months and it's been. It's been incredibly helpful. So you guys are making waves in more ways than you realize. Probably. So anyways, yeah, that, that all sounds great. I just wanted to throw that in and share it and I will go ahead and, and stay the course with performance at least through ski season and then maybe, you know, look into some of that old time stuff.

[Doug]

Thank you, bro. Great story, bro. Appreciate that.

[Unknown]

Yeah, of course, guys, let me know. I know I'm just across the mountain, so if you guys are ever skiing yourselves up at the Tahoe place or want to catch a pump in Reno or something, hit me up. I'd love to. Definitely love to link and get some snowboard turns in.

[Doug]

Right on, Danny.

[Adam Schaefer]

Sure.

[Sal DiStefano]

Thank you.

[Unknown]

All right, guys, catch you later. Have a good one.

[Sal DiStefano]

I only sled sledding.

[Doug]

What a great story.

[Sal DiStefano]

Yeah, it's so funny that.

[Unknown]

He's amazing.

[Doug]

He made that connection. He's like, oh, shit, this might be the best guy for me.

[Sal DiStefano]

Yeah, I'm gonna go with someone else. I love that. You know what's funny about that? With therapy, I've been listening, you know, Adam, Lane Smith, we've been on the show a couple times. He says so much therapy is directed towards female psychology. Yeah, that will apply.

[Doug]

I remember when he said that.

[Sal DiStefano]

And it messes them up, he says. And the whole action, like feelings follow action, that really resonates with men quite a bit in particular, Adam talks about that. So cool.

[Adam Schaefer]

Our next caller is Brittany from Texas.

[Sal DiStefano]

Hi, Brittany.

[Unknown]

Hello.

Hi.

[Doug]

How are you?

[Sal DiStefano]

Good. How can we help you?

[Unknown]

Good. So a little bit of background on me is I'm 40 years old, I'm a hairstylist, I run two salons in Texas, and I started strength training about 10 years ago. I was introduced to it through CrossFit, but that was also around the time I discovered I had Hashimoto's. I'm sure you guys have heard of that autoimmune disease that attacks your thyroid. After kind of working with traditional doctors and not really getting anywhere, I found a functional medicine doctor and she was awesome. She got me two quit the CrossFit, focus on more low impact workouts and changed my diet and we got my Hashimoto's under control. Fast forward to Covid. A lot of stress happened in my life then didn't really get to work out as much then had some major life event happen probably two and a half years ago. Got back into strength training, but was probably vastly under eating. I did a dexa scan a couple of months ago just to see where I was kind of at. I didn't really know, even though I've been strength training probably consistently for three years, and my body fat percentage was pretty high. It was like 30%. So then I started to really try to dial in my nutrition. I started my calories at about 2200. Retested about a month after that first DEXA, and my weight had gone down a little bit, but my body fat percentage and my muscle mass had gone down. Fast forward to now a little bit of an update since I emailed you guys. I'm now eating about 2,500 calories. I'm following maps 15. So I really dialed back the intensity, but I'm just really trying to focus on gaining strength and not so much aesthetics. What I'm noticing is my strength is not really where I feel like it should be for someone that's been training as long as I have. So my question to you guys was, do you think autoimmunity, Hashimoto's specifically, can play a role in not being able to put on as much muscle as the average person?

[Sal DiStefano]

Yes, but Hashimoto's in particular responds very strongly to over stress. All autoimmune does. But I'm gonna. Look, I'm gonna tell you this from my experience, Brittany. I've never met a salon owner who wasn't under a ton of stress. It's a very, very stressful business to own. And you own two of them?

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Sal DiStefano]

You're a mom too?

[Unknown]

No, no, I'm single, so, yeah.

[Sal DiStefano]

Okay. And you had something tough. You went through something tough recently? You said a couple years ago it was a divorce. Yeah. You're on the right path with maths 15 and moving your calories. I mean, how do you got to give it time?

[Doug]

Yeah. How do you feel since you. You bumped the calories to that?

[Unknown]

I feel good, definitely. Just, I'm not just not. I'm just not seeing my strength progress, especially because, like, I watched your journey, Adam, and I know men are totally different, and somebody who doesn't have Hashimoto's is way different, and someone that's been training like you is way different. But I thought with the little bit of experience I've had training in the last few years that like some sort of muscle memory or maybe I accidentally built some muscle back then, but when I did my scan and just based on the strength now I'm just. I feel good to answer your question, but I just. I don't know if my strength Is where it should be. It just feels like I'm not making strength gains. Like, I want to help.

[Sal DiStefano]

The health has to. Comes before the strength. Yeah, sure. So if you're noticing improvements in health, like energy, sleeps a little better, feel a little bit more calm, less stressed. My hot cold tolerance is better. Hair and nails start to feel better, digestion starts to improve. Then the strength tends to follow. But you went through something very difficult. You have a tendency towards Hashimoto's. You own two businesses, so being a business owner is already a lot of work. There's salons which are just filled with drama and work. So I. Yeah. And you laugh because then you know. You know exactly what I'm talking about. You're on the right path. Stay. Stay on the path and use your health as a guide. And then what will happen is the strength will follow, and then the muscle and the fat loss will follow. But health has to come first.

[Unknown]

Okay.

[Doug]

Yeah. Trust.

[Unknown]

I knew you guys were gonna say that.

[Doug]

Yeah. Trust the process. You're doing good. You're doing really good. You look good. You sound healthy. It sounds like you're in a good place right now. Just give it some. Give it some time.

[Sal DiStefano]

Yeah.

[Doug]

You know, it's not an overnight thing for sure, but keep, Keep falling. And how far into the program are you and it's been for you right now, Was it a month or two, would you say?

[Unknown]

Yeah, it's been about a month.

[Sal DiStefano]

Oh, you're. You're so on the right path.

[Doug]

Yeah.

[Sal DiStefano]

You got to give it at least another. Another two months. You gotta give it a good 90 days, and then you'll start to see things turning around. What. What positive effects are you noticing? I know, Forget strength. But you said you feel better. What do you mean by that?

[Unknown]

Yeah, I feel better. Just. I don't have brain fog like I used to. I was just running on, like, major stress before, and just really. Because I was following a bodybuilder split before I found you guys, and I. I couldn't tell. It's hard to know, like, what was. What was low energy because I was going through a divorce. So, like, my stress was just really high. So I think I just felt like I was like, oh, yeah, I have high energy. Like, I'm good.

Like, I'm fine.

And then I kind of crashed out. I also had surgery a year ago. I kind of crashed out after the surgery because my body told me I had to. I had to heal. And I just started putting on weight, but I was, like, trying to be nice to myself.

[Sal DiStefano]

Too.

[Unknown]

I was like, well, I just had surgery. I just had. I went through a divorce. Like, I'm gonna just chill for a little bit. And I still trained, but I really dialed back the intensity. I just wasn't following, like, a set program. But I do notice a difference from post divorce, post surgery. Like, I definitely feel much better. Sleep is good, energy is good. Clarity is there. So, like, all the feelings are there, which is good.

[Sal DiStefano]

Yeah, you're on the right path. You got to give it at least another. At least another two months, if not more. But I give it a. Another. And then what will happen is your body will start to respond and it's going to feel, like, weird what's going on. I'm not even doing anything else, and my body's starting to look and feel different. But. But what you're noticing with energy and all that, that's. That's such a positive thing. But you just started. You're healing from a pretty. It was a pretty bad place, as it sounds like, and you're coming out of that, and that takes a little while. It doesn't just happen.

[Doug]

What do you want her to run after?

[Sal DiStefano]

15, I think 15 for a while. And then if you. If you go to a higher volume program, Anabolic or Muscle Mommy would be. The two programs, I think would be appropriate volume, but I would go for at least another 60 days with math. You're not doing anything else, right? No cardio, anything like that?

[Unknown]

No, my steps. I get in at work, so I feel like I don't need to do anything else.

[Sal DiStefano]

No, you're good. And then, by the way, what you noticed after, with that, during that stressful period where you're kind of hyper, that is a very common stress response. Very damaging to the body as well. And then eventually what people do notice is that crash. And so, yeah, very normal what you experience. But you're. You're healing. What you're feeling right now is your body's. You're. You're coming out of the hole. You're not out yet, but you're coming out of the hole. So you're moving in the right direction for sure.

[Doug]

Brittany, are you taking a. Are you taking a day, a week or so? Do you have a day that you just kind of completely relax, shut down, go for a nice long walk and stroll, or do any sort of yoga? Do you have anything like, any practices like that?

[Unknown]

I'm trying, like, yeah, I try to dedicate at least one day a week to doing nothing or something I want to do. Like, I've taken up photography. So like I go take pictures and drive around and stuff. But yeah, it is hard. You're probably going to say, like it's probably hard for me to do that, which it is. I think I'm addicted to the, the, the cortisol or the adren sometimes.

[Doug]

That's why, that's why I bring that up. I think that that would also serve you is to just be conscious of that and trying to make a, an effort at least on a weekly basis to have a day like that that is, you know, more working inward, you know, doing stuff.

[Sal DiStefano]

But don't turn it into work.

[Doug]

Right, right. Yeah. Yeah.

[Sal DiStefano]

Don't turn into work, turn it into relax.

[Doug]

Yeah. I love the idea of walking and hiking to spots to take photography. I think that's great stuff. Like things that's passion and fills your bucket in other ways. So. But that practice will serve you all.

[Sal DiStefano]

Just for some perspective, give us accurate hours that you work on a weekly basis. Like how many, like what do you, what do your hours look like during the week?

[Unknown]

Well, I work 11 to 7. I was working five days a week but now I dialed that back like two months ago I decided my doctor and suggested I dial that back. So now I'm working four days a week. And I know it's not, it doesn't equal 40 hours, but when you're standing all day, it's a lot.

[Sal DiStefano]

Plus you're managing other people.

[Doug]

Well.

[Unknown]

Yes, there is a little bit of that. Thankfully I've outsourced a lot of that. But it's mostly like the, the client interaction I'm learning like I've been doing here for 15 years and probably in the last like five years I'm finally learning. You pick up interaction is like a major energy exchange.

[Doug]

So you pick up all their energy.

[Sal DiStefano]

It's very similar to personal training.

[Doug]

Yeah.

[Sal DiStefano]

If you work, yeah, if you, if you work with five people in a row, there's no break. It's five. Yeah, you're on.

[Doug]

You know, since you recognize that, you know that there's a lot of value too. And just at the end of your day doing something that really allows you to decompress. Nice walk, nice warm bath, things that'll help you kind of detach from all that energy you've picked up from clients all day. I know that sounds kind of woo woo, but I'm a big believer right now. Yeah. So yeah, you know, if doing practices like that, that's all going to serve you, you and I think, I think you'll see the strength and all those things are to come. The better you are at taking care of yourself in that direction.

[Sal DiStefano]

Totally.

[Unknown]

Yeah. Okay, cool. Well, thank you guys so much. I appreciate you.

[Sal DiStefano]

You got it. You're doing good.

[Unknown]

Thank you.

[Sal DiStefano]

Thank you. I. I've never met a salon owner or a restaurant owner that wasn't just.

[Doug]

Well, it takes us. It takes a special person to do this, bro.

[Sal DiStefano]

You're dealing with so many people, so much drama, so many persons. Oh, it's constant.

[Unknown]

Well, and I didn't want to dig too much, but like, I know there's a lot of alcohol being passed around in, in salons and. And oh yeah, my wife and like has Hashimoto's and. And it's such a. Not a good combo. No big TR to be. Yeah, cognizant of that is a big thing.

[Sal DiStefano]

Alcohol and gluten are the big ones for.

[Doug]

You know, we really didn't dive into her diet that much to ask her questions about that because that could also. You're right.

[Sal DiStefano]

She said she's bumping her more calories.

[Doug]

Well, she. She also said she's working with a specialist. Right. So hopefully they're. They've got the right path nutritionally.

[Unknown]

Sounds like they. They got it turned around.

[Sal DiStefano]

Good. Look, if you like our show, come find us on Instagram. Justin is at Mind Pump. Justin, I'm at mind pump. DiStefano. Adam, is that Mind Pump? Adam?

[Adam Schaefer]

Thank you for listening to Mind Pump. If your goal is to build and shape your body, dramatically improve your health and energy and maximize your overall performance, check out our discounted online RGB super [e-mail] the RGB Super Bundle includes Maps, Anabolic Maps, Performance and Maps, aesthetic. Nine months of phased expert exercise programming designed by Sal, Adam and Justin to systematically transform the way your body looks, feels and performs. With detailed workout blueprints and over 200 videos, the RGB Super Bundle is like having Sal, Adam and Justin as your own personal trainers, but at a fraction of the price. The RGB Super Bundle has a full 30 day money back guarantee and you can get it now. Plus other valuable free [e-mail] if you enjoy this show, please share the love by leaving us a five star rating and review on itunes and by introducing Mind Pump to your friends and family. We thank you.

[Sal DiStefano]

Thank you for your support.

[Adam Schaefer]

And until next time, this is Mind Pump.

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