2536: Avoid These 3 Kinds of Fitness “Professionals” & More (Listener Live Coaching)

Summary

Mind Pump Podcast Summary: Episode 2536 – "Avoid These 3 Kinds of Fitness Professionals & More"

Hosts: Sal DiStefano, Adam Schafer, Justin Andrews
Produced by: Doug Egge
Release Date: February 19, 2025

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1. Identifying Problematic Fitness Professionals

The episode begins with the hosts, Sal, Adam, and Justin, delving into the pitfalls plaguing the fitness industry. They highlight three specific types of fitness professionals to avoid:

• a. 30-Day Fitness Challenges ([03:39] Sal DiStefano):

  Sal criticizes the prevalent use of 30-day fitness challenges, labeling them as unsustainable and misleading. These challenges often promote an "all or nothing" mentality, enticing clients with rapid transformations that are typically not maintained long-term. Sal emphasizes that such approaches exploit individuals in vulnerable states, leading to eventual failure and disillusionment with fitness.

  Sal DiStefano ([03:39]): "These people are the downfall of the fitness industry. Look, don't listen to people who do these three things."

• b. Before-and-After Transformations ([15:09] Sal DiStefano):

  The hosts discuss the overreliance on before-and-after photos as primary evidence of success. They argue that this focus narrows fitness benefits to mere appearance, neglecting other vital aspects like health, performance, and longevity. Moreover, such imagery can set unrealistic expectations and foster body obsession.

  Sal DiStefano ([15:09]): "It's all about how you look. There's really nothing else. And the problem with that is that's fleeting and it does not result in a lifelong sustainable relationship with fitness."

• c. Use of Half-Naked or Shirtless Photos ([23:07] Justin Andrews):

  The hosts caution against fitness professionals who showcase mostly half-naked or shirtless images of themselves as the sole proof of their expertise. This tactic often masks a lack of genuine client success and shifts the focus from training to self-promotion.

  Justin Andrews ([24:02]): "And I mean, this might be worse than the transformation one."

2. The Importance of Accountability and Consistency in Personal Training

A significant portion of the discussion centers on the critical role of accountability and consistency in achieving fitness goals. The hosts reference studies indicating that clients working with personal trainers are more likely to progress and maintain their fitness routines.

• Key Insights:

  • Accountability: Having a coach or being part of a group increases commitment.
  • Consistency: Regular, sustained effort outweighs sporadic intense workouts.

  Sal DiStefano ([24:43]): "The biggest challenge with weight loss or improved fitness or improved health is just being consistent."

  • Group Dynamics: The social component of training, as exemplified by CrossFit's success, underscores the power of community in sustaining fitness endeavors.

    Sal DiStefano ([28:32]): "CrossFit made long lasting impacts in fitness. ... the social component ... was a big why."

3. Introducing Group Coaching Solutions

Responding to the challenges posed by unsustainable fitness practices, the hosts introduce their own solutions aimed at fostering accountability and consistency through group coaching.

• Upcoming Program: Maps Transformation ([29:15] Justin Andrews):

  Justin announces the launch of the "Maps Transformation" program, designed to guide small groups through structured training with active coaching support. This program leverages a dedicated app for tracking progress, facilitating communication, and ensuring personalized assistance.

  Justin Andrews ([29:15]): "The next program that's coming up is Maps Transformation. ... it's going to be like coaching."

• App Features ([32:04] Sal DiStefano):

  The accompanying app allows participants to monitor workouts, track metrics like body weight and waist circumference, and engage with coaches directly for real-time support.

  Sal DiStefano ([32:04]): "You could track your workout progress. You could track metrics like body weight... You have a question, you can ask it."

4. Listener Live Coaching Q&A

The episode features live coaching segments where listeners call in with personal fitness questions. Three callers share their unique challenges and receive tailored advice from the hosts.

• a. Deborah from Florida ([57:45] Deborah):

  Deborah, a coach preparing for her second bikini competition, seeks guidance on balancing muscle gain with her love for running. The hosts recommend prioritizing her health and functionality over rapid competition-focused training, suggesting a dedicated year-long plan to build muscle sustainably.

  Justin Andrews ([61:37]): "If you were truly close, they wouldn't say anything. They'd give you some critiques, maybe more shoulder definition."

• b. Natalie from Illinois ([72:48] Natalie):

  Diagnosed with fibromyalgia, Natalie inquires about managing chronic pain while following the Maps program. Sal advises managing stress and monitoring workout intensity to prevent flare-ups, emphasizing the importance of moderate training and proper form.

  Sal DiStefano ([73:32]): "The most important thing for you to do is manage stress, period. End of story."

• c. Boat from Thailand ([80:25] Boat):

  Boat seeks advice on training to failure, questioning how to accurately gauge if he's leaving "two reps in the tank." The hosts explain the concept of rep ranges and adjusting weights or reps to stay within target intensity levels.

  Sal DiStefano ([81:56]): "Leaving two in the tank means you think... you stop right there."

5. Discussion on Sleep and Lifestyle Factors

The hosts explore the impact of modern lifestyles on sleep quality, discussing factors like artificial lighting and temperature control.

• Key Points:

  • Artificial Light Exposure: Increased use of electric lights and screens disrupts natural sleep patterns by reducing melatonin production.
  • Temperature Control: Modern heating and cooling systems interfere with the body's natural temperature fluctuations that signal sleep readiness.

  Sal DiStefano ([34:37]): "Now, people used to sleep ten hours... They worked... Now, it’s designed to make sleep a problem."

• Solutions:

  • Use of Candlelight: Encouraging the use of softer, warmer lighting in the evenings to promote sleepiness.
  • Temperature Management: Advocating for controlled bed temperatures, as facilitated by partners like 8sleep, to enhance sleep quality.

6. Conclusion: Emphasizing Health, Consistency, and Sustainable Training

Wrapping up the episode, the hosts reiterate the importance of prioritizing health and sustainable fitness practices over quick fixes and superficial metrics. They encourage listeners to seek accountability through coaching and community, ensuring long-term success and well-being.

Adam Schafer ([71:52]): "It's about consistency and understanding your priorities."

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Notable Quotes with Timestamps

• Sal DiStefano ([03:39]):

  "These people are the downfall of the fitness industry. Look, don't listen to people who do these three things."

• Justin Andrews ([15:09]):

  "It's all about how you look. There's really nothing else."

• Sal DiStefano ([28:32]):

  "CrossFit made long lasting impacts in fitness. ... the social component ... was a big why."

• Sal DiStefano ([34:37]):

  "Now, people used to sleep ten hours... They worked... Now, it’s designed to make sleep a problem."

• Justin Andrews ([61:37]):

  "If you were truly close, they wouldn't say anything. They'd give you some critiques, maybe more shoulder definition."

• Sal DiStefano ([73:32]):

  "The most important thing for you to do is manage stress, period. End of story."

• Sal DiStefano ([81:56]):

  "Leaving two in the tank means you think... you stop right there."

---

Final Thoughts

Episode 2536 of Mind Pump: Raw Fitness Truth provides a critical examination of misleading practices within the fitness industry while offering actionable solutions centered on accountability, consistency, and sustainable training. Through insightful discussions and listener interactions, the hosts reinforce their commitment to promoting health-focused, evidence-based fitness strategies, steering clear of gimmicks that promise quick but fleeting results.

Transcript

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[Adam Schafer]

You want to pump your body and expand your mind, there's only one place to go.

[Sal DiStefano]

Mind Pump Mind Pump with your hosts.

[Adam Schafer]

Sal Destefano, Adam Schafer and Justin Andrews.

[Sal DiStefano]

You just found the most downloaded fitness, health and entertainment podcast. This is Mind Pump, right? In today's episode we answered live callers questions. People called in, we got to coach them on air. But this was after our intro. Today's intro is 54 minutes long. In the intro we talk about fitness, workouts, diet studies. It's a good time. By the way, if you want to be on an episode like this where we can help you out on air, email us your [e-mail] now this episode is brought to you by some sponsors. The first one is eight Sleep. This is the most advanced sleep system you'll find anywhere. It goes on your bed. It controls the temperature of your bed and it reads your sleep and uses AI to adjust it to give you perfect sleep every single night. By the way, it comes with two sides so you and your spouse have different temperatures, different control. Go check them out. Go to 8sleep.com mindpump Use the code mindpump. Get $350 off their Pod 4 Ultra. By the way, it ships all over the US, Canada, the UK, Europe and Australia. This episode is also brought to you by Ned. This is Cannabinoids done right. If you've used CB the past and felt nothing, it's because you didn't use ned. Try Ned High cbd. But it's also full spectrum. You get other cannabinoids plus the terpenes. Take it. 45 minutes later, you'll know you took something. Go to helloned.com mindpump that's H E L L O N E D.com mindpump Use the code mindpump. Get 20% off. We also have a webinar for trainers. Free one. We're gonna teach you how to use social media to build your business. Go to trainerwebinar.com to sign up. Finally, we have some workout program sales this month. Maps anabolic and the no BS six pack formula combined together for an incredible deal. $59.99 for both total. You get both for that. Just go to mapsfebuary.com if you want to sign up. All right, here comes the show.

[Justin Andrews]

T shirt time.

[Adam Schafer]

And it's T shirt time.

[Justin Andrews]

Ah, shit, Doug. You know it's my favorite time of the week.

[Adam Schafer]

Two winners this week. One for Apple Podcasts, one for Facebook. The Apple Podcast winner is Nickel D1998. And for Facebook, we have Gerald Whitaker. Both of you are winners. Send the name I just read to [e-mail] include your shirt size and your shipping address and we'll get that shirt right out to you.

[Sal DiStefano]

These people are the downfall of the fitness industry. Look, don't listen to people who do these three things. Here's the first one. 30 day fitness challenges, if that's their business, turn the other way, run.

[Justin Andrews]

Oh, you're gonna ruffle some feathers with this one.

[Doug]

It happens a lot.

[Sal DiStefano]

This is like a staple way that a lot of courses that teach trainers how to build businesses. This is like one way they teach them is to create these 30 day fitness challenges, but they don't teach people a successful method at all. And it really does encourage this all or nothing, do it, stop type of deal. Really, it's just a way to get leads from a lot of people who are through, through hype.

[Doug]

Capture that momentum. Yeah, I think you have sustainability in that message.

[Justin Andrews]

I think you have to share with the audience. This is a good conversation. Also a bit nuanced and gonna piss some people off because we have a lot of trainers that follow the show and I know a lot of trainers that mean well, but also have been sucked into this trap of thinking that this is a good strategy. And to your point, there's a lot of, you know, fitness marketers that sell to these trainers the to do these challenges. Now, what is it from a marketing perspective? Why is it so successful for People, because this is why trainers do it. They do it because. Not because it's successful, because the client gets results. Success, but because people buy. Yeah, people are more likely to buy. And there's, there's some of the obvious reasons, like obviously, selling somebody 30 day transformations versus, hey, this could take you two years.

[Sal DiStefano]

Yeah, right.

[Justin Andrews]

That's a lifetime. But there's more than that. There has to be a reason why it works so well for selling people on getting in shape, that, that you have just a, a cult of trainers that are using this tactic to get clients.

[Sal DiStefano]

Yeah. You're, you're capturing a vulnerable period. It's human psychology. And you're capturing people in a vulnerable position. Right. So when people decide, when they first decide, I'm going to change everything, I'm going to change my diet, I'm going to change my, my, my lifestyle in terms of exercise, I'm gonna do all these things, it's typically from a place of either disgust or they're fed up. You know, happens often after the holidays. Right. New Year's resolutions are big on this. And so people, like, they're just fed up with how they feel, how they look. Mostly it's usually how they look. And so they're looking for a way to make a big change. It's really. By the way, the data on this is like data on marathons for people getting in shape. People will sign up for a marathon or a race as a way to get in shape. You look at the success rate of these individuals in terms of, are they able to stay in shape, do they maintain it? It's terrible. It's actually terrible. It's just as bad as people starting a radical new diet. And the reason why this is the downfall of the fitness industry is because trainers and coaches who are supposed to be the people that communicate this properly, Right. They're supposed to be the evangelists of fitness in the proper way, teaching in the right way. What they're doing is they're encouraging this mentality that is a failing mentality. And for the person on the other end of it, you know, I look in the mirror, I see a picture of myself, I feel gross, I don't like myself. And this is the same look. We used to get this all the time in the gyms. People come in and they're like, I'm ready to work out five days a week. I say, well, how long have you been working out? Oh, I haven't worked out in 10 years. Okay, let's not start five days a week because it's too big of a jump. You're going to set yourself up for failure. It's not only that, it's not necessary, it's not going to get you there any faster. But when you're in that state of motivation, especially negative motivation, which is very acute, very powerful, initially you, your self belief is a bit distorted. So I'm do five days a week, I'm serious about it this time. And so you're feeding into it with these 30 day fitness challenges. And what you're doing is you're casting a net that captures this vulnerable place that people are in. And so that's why they exist. It's because they work in terms of sales, in terms of leads, but they continue to promote the wrong message. And it's part of the problem. This is why, one reason, there's many reasons why the fitness industry has not solved the poor health epidemic and the reason why this is so frustrating is because the answers to the problem of poor health lie in the fitness industry. We actually have the answers like no other industry has the answers. The medical industry doesn't, the food industry doesn't. Nobody has this but the fitness and health industry. And yet here we are promoting the wrong thing by capturing people in these vulnerable places and telling them, make this radical transformation in your life in 30 days. And they typically come with fast from this, abstain from that. Do this, you know, you know this many steps every day and you're going to get this much sleep every night. And it's like 15, a list of 15 things. And when you're in that state of hyper negative motivation, you know, I can do 30 days, let's do this. But it fails.

[Justin Andrews]

Do you think that's the other reason why too is because, you know, there's, what's that saying, like I can do anything for 30 days? Totally. Like, because it's not a major commitment, there's more, there's more likely that people will adhere to that. Like if you said something like 90 days or six months, that's like, oh my God, that's a, that's a long time. I don't know if I'm ready to commit that. But if you go, you just got to do it for 30 days, I'm like, okay, I could, I could, I could do that.

[Sal DiStefano]

Yeah. Which by the way, the fail rate within that 30 days is actually high too. Yeah, it's also high. So even it's actually.

[Justin Andrews]

But it's got to be better than six months, right?

[Sal DiStefano]

Of course. But this, the perception of I can do that is high because it's only, you know, it's only 30 days.

[Justin Andrews]

It seems like, you know, there's also, there's also a percentage of people that recognize this is a marketing strategy, recognize this is not ideal for them, recognize they need to be doing this for much longer than just 30 days. But they actually use it as a justification to kickstart them.

[Sal DiStefano]

That's what they think.

[Justin Andrews]

Yes.

[Sal DiStefano]

They think, I'll do this and I'll figure it out after.

[Justin Andrews]

Yes.

[Sal DiStefano]

Oh, once I get there, then I'll figure it out. It doesn't work that way. It never works that way. And what you, what we should have are professionals explaining that.

[Doug]

Well, I'd love the statistics on after they go through 30 days of how many people kept going for a year, you know, and then you could find out like, oh, if that really was a kickstarter, if that really did kind of help promote that. I doubt it's the same feel rate.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah, it might be higher. I think, Justin, that's a, I think that's a great question. And I would be curious too, and let me tell you why. So if I'm a trainer and I'm selling these 30 day challenges, it's in my best interest that I show as much change as I can to the client physically. Right. Like lose as much weight. Most.

[Doug]

You got to hook them.

[Justin Andrews]

All right? So most of it. Most of it is weight loss stuff. Now what we know is what 90% or more we'd say. I say all, everybody. Now, probably early in my career when I was figuring this out, a large portion of my people that needed to lose weight, I reverse diet at first. And if I do that, the reverse diet process is at least a month or two.

[Sal DiStefano]

You're not losing anyway.

[Justin Andrews]

You're not losing anyway.

[Doug]

Massive.

[Justin Andrews]

So if I did a, you know, 30 day challenge, weight loss challenge, and you sign up for me, I know you're not going to lose any weight in the first 30 days. And so I'd be sitting up. So what I'm forced to do, if I'm pitching these people on a 30 day weight loss challenge and I have to show them results in 30 days, then I'm forced to, regardless of where metabolically they are, is to cut calories, increase activity as much as I can, because in that short period of time, I can show some weight loss problem is when they get to the end of the 30 days, that person that I just did that to that was only eating, say 13 to 1500 calories, pick them back up, is now eating 900 calories. And sure, I got the eight pounds of their 30 pounds off in the first month, but now they still got 22 more pounds to go, and they're only eating 900 calories. And so they're destined to fail and go back.

[Doug]

My problem has always been the rebound effect. And it's like, where do they go from there? And, you know, somebody that has a negative experience when they're that hyper, like, motivated to address these issues, and then, you know, after they get through that and they feel great, and then now they fail again. It's like that, that kind of period, it creates this disdain for the process, the disdain for fitness in general. And then we're like, we have to convince them that, no, there is a different way to do this that's sustainable.

[Sal DiStefano]

Yeah. So what's interesting about this and why it works so well in marketing is there's a couple reasons. One, we said already, right, you're this hyp state of negatively fueled motivation. Two, when people do this, they typically bring someone with them, hey, John, do this 30 day challenge with me. So you end up getting more leads as a result. And three, when you ask somebody, hey, did that 30 day transformation that you did work? If they did anything within that 30 days, that was results that gave them positive results, they'll say yes, even though they gained the weight back. In other words, Susan does a 30 day challenge, loses 10 pounds. Six months later, she gains it all back. And then some. Her friend says, did that 30 day challenge work? Oh, yeah, it did. I lost 10 pounds, not realizing actually it failed. You gained the weight pack and then some. Success is not measured by what you had in the 30 days. Success is measured by are you still doing it.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah.

[Sal DiStefano]

Is this something. This was a very pivotal moment for me in my career. And I know you say this too, Adam and Justin, in my career as a trainer, where I. I don't know how many years it was. It was a long time in my career where I looked at my clients and I said, I'm failing.

[Doug]

Yeah.

[Sal DiStefano]

Like, the minute they stop with me or pill to swallow, they go back. So, yeah, they lose weight when they're with me and when we did it, but then they gain it back. Like, I'm actually not helping anybody else really out. I need to kind of, you know, figure this out. So. And by the way, the coaches that do this, the people that I'm talking about, this is what it looks like. You go on their social media and this is what they do. This is their business, by the way, for Trainers who are listening, we're like, oh, it's good marketing. They're saying it makes money. It's a trap. Because you start this, you do make some money. You have to always do this. You're doing 30 day challenges forever.

[Justin Andrews]

And they just, and it just goes down and down and down and down. Yeah, yeah.

[Sal DiStefano]

Unless you have this massive reach where you keep reaching millions of people, eventually this turns into negative business and you find yourself, you know, scraping the barrel for more and more people who are willing to sign up for your, you know, your 30 day challenges. Next up, this one is going to ruffle some feathers for sure. Is people who use before and afters or body transformations as their primary source of authenticity or proof or evidence. Here's all the before and afters of all the people that I've worked with and it's all just the picture of their bodies. And this means that I really do a great job. That does not show that they did a great job. It also does something that, that we all strongly believe to be a problem with the fitness industry, which is we take all of the, all of the incredible benefits that you get from leading a healthy and fit lifestyle and we narrow it down to how you look. It's just about how you look. Here's your evidence. There's really nothing else. And the problem with that is that's fleeting and it does not result in a lifelong sustainable relationship with fitness and it can lead to body obsession or body worship. It's all about how I look. By the way, this is a problem within the fitness industry where it's all about how people look. Sacrificing health, sacrificing family, sacrificing all the other metrics. And this, even if you do get the look that you're looking for, eventually it'll wear out. Because where do you go from there?

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah, yeah, this is a tough one. I know. We chose to go this way, right? We, we made a point early on and a stand with our marketing team that we were not going to use this as a strategy to generate leads and sell programs early on. And we've stuck to that. And I feel for the trainers that are trying to build their business because this is, this is everybody, Sal. I mean, you're literally, you're, I mean, now you're now the first one. You pissed off half the trainers. Now you literally just everybody, everybody. Because everybody who's ever had their website built for them. As a personal trainer. One of the first things that every, every marketing team will ask for is social proof. Proof that you've been able to transform these people. And they're using the imagery on it. And it is for sure a surefire way to, to get traffic and get leads. And so there's a part of me that it's like, I, I know why we didn't do it. I mean, we agree because we're trying to shift culture, we're trying to shift the space, but it's not there yet. And so I always think back, like, you know, if I didn't have you guys and we weren't building this together, like, man, how would I go about doing that? Like, could I move, could I move the industry by myself? You know, could I survive, could I survive building it without using these online? You know, I didn't have an online business before, really mind pump. I mean, I was always an in person, referral, word of mouth type of trainer. I got in the online game late and I think, God, if I, if I was building that now, like, would I, would I be able to do it without using those pictures?

[Sal DiStefano]

So here's the, here's the two ways I'll help with that because I get it, I get it. If you look at marketing and fitness, nothing sells faster and easier than showing a before and after period. End of story. That's a fact. Not going to say it's not effective. It is very effective. But we've built a business, an eight figure business, never using a before and after. When we were trainers, we knew trainers who walked around with a binder of before and afters of the client and used it to sell training. Sure. Did you guys use binders of before and after?

[Justin Andrews]

Of course.

[Sal DiStefano]

So, so my point did, yeah, I.

[Doug]

Had on my website. It was like massively effective. I don't want to be a hypocrite here, but at the same time I, that's why that was an intentional focus for us is like, can we prove that you can do this differently? And to Adam's point, it's a big ship to steer. It's a big thing to ask this industry to focus on. And I do think it's important because of all the shenanigans and you've seen, even with supplement companies, how they've manipulated this and you know, the tricks and you know, you know, there's a lot of tomfoolery out there that, you know, uses this as a way to manipulate people and their emotions. And it's tough because you have only this selective amount of time to capture somebody's attention. And so how do you capture their Attention to get them to be hooked to. Then also listening to your actual message. Yeah, that's a tough.

[Sal DiStefano]

I think there's a way to do it.

[Justin Andrews]

There is. I know. Of course there is. We've proven, like you said, like.

[Sal DiStefano]

No, I mean, I think you can even use before and after pictures. Oh, in a way.

[Doug]

I think even video testimonials are better.

[Sal DiStefano]

Yeah. And also tell the whole story. Yeah, like, tell the whole story, not just the. What the body looks like before and after. Because you know what it does, first off, it sets up people for failure. Well, I did six months, and I don't look that. And then they ignore the fact that they feel better, they sleep better, they have better mobility, they're stronger. They're not even paying attention to those things. It sets up false expectations. Again, it's not telling the whole story, and it continues to promote the wrong message. And I would say, by the way, you brought up a great point, Justin. Supplement companies and diets and Fitness Pro that are all garbage use before and afters, and a lot of those before and afters are doctored or the pictures are reversed. A lot of people don't know this. A lot of times supplement companies will go to somebody who's shredded and say, gain 30 pounds of body fat and will pay you. They'll take a picture, make that the before and the after is the picture that they took of them when they were lean. That's a. That's like. By the way, they do that all the time.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Sal DiStefano]

You know?

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah. I mean, I think I. I think the way I would have probably approached it by myself would have been the. I probably would have used things like that to get the attention of people. And then. Because here's the. That's. This is the argument I would make if I was this trainer. Right. And again, I just want to play devil's advocate with you on this. It's just. I think that if I. I'm gonna go, man, it's. That's what people want. It's my job to then teach them how to attach fitness to all these other things. Right. But if I'm being honest, I know what got me in the door. I know what got me into working out. It was my. My issues with body image. Right. How I looked, insecurities. And so if that's what got me to walk in the door, then. And then now, over time, I learned a lot. And so. And the same thing goes for a client. The client comes in and they're. They're coming in with body Image issues. And so if I don't get their attention with that, like, could I get. Could I get them? It would be really difficult to do. I know we've done it here. I know we've done it here. But we also have created this massive thing. Right. That we have that where we can talk for an hour and a half, two hours. And when you are building a business online, you don't necessarily have that.

[Sal DiStefano]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

And so this is a harder, harder one. I.

[Sal DiStefano]

That's why I put uses body transformations as the primary source of authenticity. I don't think using before and afters, you know, is bad. I think if that's your business, that's your primary source of showing authenticity, then you probably have somebody that is a red flag.

[Doug]

Well, I mean, the description of how they got there, you know, that's all, like, highlighted. Like, we went through these periods of reverse dieting. Like, the whole story is attached.

[Sal DiStefano]

Like, are they teaching?

[Justin Andrews]

Are they coaching? I think what the two that you've started off with attached together are what's really dangerous and bad or what's a good red flag for people? Because, for example, there are definitely lots of social media pages that are nothing but transformation photos. Just.

[Sal DiStefano]

Yes.

[Justin Andrews]

You know, and then they're selling a challenge.

[Sal DiStefano]

Yes.

[Justin Andrews]

Like, to me, the.

[Sal DiStefano]

They tend to go together.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah. The two of those paired together is a red flag for the consumer of. Oh, I'm not, I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna bite into this. This is just purely a marketing ploy to get my money to do this challenge that's setting me up for failure. The trainer who has got a, you know, Instagram full of incredible good knowledge and information and communicating all the talk about on the show. And, and then, you know, they have a client highlight every say, you know, once a month of, you know, Susie who's done this different, you know, and a story about her and her where she, her before and after was, you know, I, I, I understand. I, I get it. And I. And I know the value and the power of it. And I feel like you're also communicating so much good message. And then that person. I get you use something like that to get the attention of Susie's friends or someone else who looks at Susie goes, oh, my God. The same body as I do. I could do that. And then hits me up and goes, oh, my God. I saw your transformation of Susie. Can you help me? And then I had the chance to sit down and talk to you. Well, let me tell you about Susie. Like, Susie didn't Just get there in 30 days. You know, we had a reverse dieter and we had to do these things. And it's like so very well said, right? Like that. I mean, I'm. I'm all for that. It's.

[Sal DiStefano]

Now you painted a picture very well because you can. You'll see these pages and it's all. It's Almost, you know, 80, 90% before and afters and 30 day challenges and before and after. And it's products that are being sold primarily by before and afters. Before and after. Before. Which, by the way, it's less these days because I think the consumer. It was, by the way, in the 90s. Oh, my God. That's all they used.

[Doug]

Yeah, it was the only form of marketing.

[Sal DiStefano]

It got so crazy that they started making memes about it. Like, there's that one famous meme where there's like this overweight white dude and there's a shredded black. Just to show, like.

[Justin Andrews]

That's my favorite.

[Sal DiStefano]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

Like.

[Sal DiStefano]

Oh, yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

Just to show how, you know, 30 days. Make a note. Okay, can you make a note? I would love to do a maps ad. Like that fake one? Yes. Like a fat white dude and he's like, shredded black guy afterwards. Like, use maps aesthetic, you know, like a chick. Can we do that? Can we? Dylan, make sure you make a note for that.

[Sal DiStefano]

Just make it look ridiculous.

[Justin Andrews]

I would love. I would, I would love. I would love Danny. Danny would be great for that project. To do a maps aesthetic before and after. And it'd be like fat white guy to like a shredded black guy, like.

[Sal DiStefano]

Mr. Olympia or something like that. Yeah, totally. It became a meme. Next up is, you know, people who, I mean, the vast majority of their media and marketing and examples of social proof are pictures of themselves and they're in half naked bodies. This one I think most people get, right? It's like, I'm a coach and you go on the social media, it's all pictures of them flexing and naked or half naked, shirtless or whatever.

[Justin Andrews]

And I mean, this might be worse than the transformation one.

[Sal DiStefano]

Oh, it is.

[Justin Andrews]

And the reason why is because at least the transformation one is changing, Focused on the clients. It's getting some people results. There's trainers online that are just like. All they can do is get themselves shredded. They haven't helped nobody hear a lot about. They're selling a lot of shit and it's all half naked photos of themselves. So. Yeah, no, 100%. Totally.

[Sal DiStefano]

Speaking of which, I pulled up. I pulled up a personal training study, which is. Which Was really interesting. Okay, let me ask you guys this. Of all of the values that coaching or personal training can provide someone, all the benefits, what would you guys say is, I mean, they're all good, but what's the top, the top, most important benefit?

[Justin Andrews]

Would you say the accountability and consistency piece?

[Sal DiStefano]

Totally. Totally. Because if you look at the data, the, the biggest challenge with weight loss or improved fitness or improved health just being consistent is that they stop at some point.

[Justin Andrews]

Well, you have, you haven't said it in a long time. I used to love it because I, I used to repeat it all the time. That a subpar program done consistently is better than the best program in the world. Done inconsist.

[Sal DiStefano]

Totally. Just like a perfect diet done inconsistently is worse than a sub perfect diet that's done consistently. Consistency is paramount. Now all the other stuff's important too, so I don't want to downplay it, but I pulled up a personal training study. I'll read you. Because I'm like, do they have studies on the success of coaching and personal training? And they actually do have a study and they actually measured it. So, so check this out. They did. This was over. This was over 100 clients, and of all the clients, 61. 61 out of the hundred, over 100 moved up a stage in terms of fitness and consistency and whatever. 13 clients moved up considerably. 2 stages, 27 of the clients stayed the same in terms of consistency. Out of 102 clients, only one reduced their consistency, only one over this. Over this entire wow period of time. Compared to the placebo, which was the opposite, vast majority of people were, would, would fall down or lose consistency.

[Justin Andrews]

What do you, what's the psychology behind that? What's your, what's your theory on why you think it's because there's that accountability piece that I have this coach I need to show up for. Do you think it's also part of just. They've. You've helped create the habit, now it's becoming a habit, or is it a combination?

[Sal DiStefano]

I think, yes, all of that. I think it's having someone there to coach you through the challenges, especially if they do a good job that can forecast, hey, it's gonna get tough because.

[Justin Andrews]

I've, I've paid for. I don't know if you guys have done this before. I've paid for things that I know I can do on my own, but because I know that I'm forking the money out and then I've got to show up to the thing or whatever. And that's kind of what it is. It's like I've had people. Why don't you just. Why do you need to pay for that? It's like, well, because I know if I pay for it.

[Doug]

Committed to that.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah, I'm committed to it. Then I'll be consistent with it. If I'm not financially committed to it then I'll have an excuse for why I'm too busy or whatever.

[Sal DiStefano]

There's also. Because they also put in their coaching with a group. There's also the social component of working with other people and we're all kind of moving towards this goal. If you look at like the gym industry in particular, we'll say fitness industry at large. There's really over the last, I would say 30 years, there's only really been one significant change or one significant impact from something that came in. And radically, really, they radically shifted the way that people work out and the perception of gyms and what works and what doesn't work. And that was CrossFit. CrossFit made long lasting impacts in fitness. Okay. They brought squats back, they brought deadlifts back, they brought Olympic lifts back. They did that single handedly. Even though bodybuilders and gyms have been trying for years. They did that single handed. Now it wasn't because CrossFit is like a miraculously incredible workout program. It's terrible. It's got a terrible workout program for the most part. It's because. And by. And their gyms aren't better. They're all garages or basements or whatever. It was the social component. Yeah. It was people showing up and doing it together. That is part of something 100 why CrossFit had this really powerful impact. So. And this study shows that like working with people, being in a group coaching, it's one of the. It's the single best investment you can make if you're trying to become fit and stay fit, period.

[Justin Andrews]

Speaking of that, I'm so pumped about this. It's going to be. This is new, right? Something that we haven't really done. We did a taste of it, I would say with the GLP1 group.

[Sal DiStefano]

Oh yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

That we did. And this is Kyle and the coaches. Our, our team over here. We don't talk a lot about the trainer side. We're slowly building that kind of behind the scenes. We're obviously starting to talk about it more now as we're building trainers underneath us. And so it's funny, we're talking about this whole thing with coaches and trainers online simultaneously. Why, you know, we're going to have a solution to a lot of this stuff. Right, Right. And one of the things that we're going to do. And I hope Doug doesn't get mad at me. I know he gets mad at me when I let the cat out of the bag on making a face. Yeah. And he's sort of getting ready to go.

[Sal DiStefano]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

So normally our marketing team. Mike. So, like, weird about when we have a program that's coming and, like, don't talk about it till we're almost there. Well, I'm going to ruin that. So the next program that's coming up is Maps Transformation. And it's. It's. It's. It's really. The motivation came from my transformation that I did of the comeback. And I'm not going to spoil all of what's in there and all the stuff that it comes with, but it's. I mean, I'm excited about the program. I know the guys are excited about the program, but what we're doing different that we haven't done before is when this program launches, we're actually going to take a. A small group through the program. And so it's a transformation program. So anybody that's looking to get back into shape or just transform their body, you can join the group. There'll be coaching along through it. Very similar to what we did with the GLP1. It's going to be headed up, though, by Kyle and our trainers and that team, although the boys and I will be obviously a part of it.

[Sal DiStefano]

We're going to be in there a.

[Justin Andrews]

Part of it, but that is what we're going to be doing. You'll obviously get the program with it and everything.

[Sal DiStefano]

Yeah, we're offering group coaching now, which we tested it and we had such good success. We all loved it, and so now we're doing it. So we're going to. We're going to have a small group. It's limited because we want to maintain quality, but you're going to get into a group, it's virtual, and it's going to be headed by trainers that we hired, people that we vouch for, and then we're going to pop in and out and help along the process. So it's not just the program. It's like coaching. You have a question, you can ask it. How does this work? How do I do that? Here's what's happening to my calories. Here's what's happening to my workout. My shoulder hurts, whatever. And we're going to have trainers and coaches, coach you, coach you yeah, if.

[Justin Andrews]

You'Re listening, I mean you could talk to anybody that went through the GLP1. We had massive success with it. It was an incredible experience. Not just for us learning what it was like to work with people GLP1s, but also how well could we manage, you know, 50, 60 people through in a group setting like that with the weekly calls and everything. And I think that we were very, very happy the h. So were all the people that went through it. And so I think it's gonna be something that we try to do on a semi regular basis. Made a lot of sense with the new program that's coming out with the transformation program. Since a lot of people.

[Deborah]

Cool.

[Doug]

We're just creating these communities so that, that way again to our earlier point, we're, we're giving them access to accountability amongst their peers and you know, also to having coaches in there to talk them through these challenges. And also one thing they solve we hadn't talked about yet is the, the app that they've been using with the coaches.

[Sal DiStefano]

Oh yeah, there's an app. So when you go. So it's mindpump groupcoaching.com it's 12 weeks. So it's 12 weeks of coaching by our trainers. And again we'll, we'll, we'll be in there as well. You could track, so you could track your workout progress. You could track metrics like body weight.

[Justin Andrews]

Waist circumference, steps, links directly to my fitness pal.

[Sal DiStefano]

So you nutrition, you watch exercise videos in there and then you're. We. The coach has access to it. So you go back and forth and you get that kind of personal coach. So it's an app that comes.

[Justin Andrews]

I mean the, the, the last group that we did was incredibly successful. Everybody loved it that went through the process. You know, mind pump fashion. We're always trying to level up and make it better this time. And this is Kyle. I mean Kyle created the, created the app in there for everyone to be able to use this. And so this is cool. It's an addition to what we did last time just to get even more hands on. I mean the community already in the, in the forum that you'll have, the private forum you'll have access to already starts to create that dynamic. But even having it even better with the app, I think people are going to love that.

[Sal DiStefano]

So.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah.

[Sal DiStefano]

And the key is just, is consistency. I can't, I really can't stress that enough. And I'm just as I went through that data on personal training and I thought about the success of, you know, or should I say the influence of CrossFit, whatever. It's like we can't understate, you know, if you're listening. So you want to get started on a fitness journey, being part of something that, that helps you, that you work with other people along the way. The data shows that that's the, the best odds you have for success. Otherwise, the odds are terrible. Data shows like, it doesn't matter what you do, what diet you do, whatever. Unless you're working with a coach or a group, your fail rate is 90 plus percent. It's like one of the worst fail rates of almost anything. It's so difficult, and I get it, you know, it's so hard to, to live a healthy and fit lifestyle in the world. It's just a terrible, it's a dismal, you know, success rate. So anyway, I got some interest. So I, I looked up data on sleep over the weekend. I had some terrible sleep. And just when I have terrible sleep or when I do anything, it leads me down a rabbit hole. And I was looking up like insomnia and complain, you know, poor sleep and stuff like that. And it was almost unreported for a long time. And then it really became, unless people were ill, it didn't start becoming an issue until electricity became a staple. And the more we used things that use electricity, like TVs, as TVs became, you know, radios and then TVs.

[Justin Andrews]

Did you happen to, did this study show like I'd be. Now you're saying this right now, I'm thinking like, man, I wonder how much smartphones impacted insomnia. And so, yeah, I would think that. I bet we exacerbated it.

[Sal DiStefano]

Oh yeah, I bet we could find.

[Justin Andrews]

That had to accelerate.

[Sal DiStefano]

Well, so here's what's crazy. People used to sleep. They didn't sleep seven or eight hours. Average person slept something like 10 hours. That was more common way back in the day, people, because, because you worked.

[Justin Andrews]

Your ass off doing laborious things all day, then you crashed and probably slept.

[Sal DiStefano]

And when the sun went down, have you guys ever gone, used like, you know, lamps and candles?

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Sal DiStefano]

Like it's dark.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah.

[Sal DiStefano]

Go. Try using this today at home. If you're listening to this when. Don't use your electric lights at all. Don't. At all. Don't turn on TV when it gets dark outside. Use candles. Look how sleepy you get very quickly.

[Doug]

I had heard that, like, they knew the, the problems with blue light way before they, they okayed it in terms of like, the whole policy of like changing for economic reasons, like some of the lighting, even for canned lights, and, and making those like fluorescent and, and, and casting down more blue light and then also on your phone and then they past, you know, that to happen, it like dramatically affected everybody's sleep.

[Sal DiStefano]

Yeah.

[Doug]

And what is the.

[Justin Andrews]

What is the. Doug, I know that, you know, you. You were the one who hunted down all of our special lights at Truckee because you can't even buy them in California.

[Sal DiStefano]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

And it's like a softer.

[Adam Schafer]

It's incandescent, so it's basically the old light.

[Sal DiStefano]

Yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

So the light is more of a golden glow.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah. It's almost like this kind of orange, red or color fluorescent lights. Yeah. Oh, why, why, why, why, why did they outlaw it in California? And.

[Adam Schafer]

Well, they take a lot more energy to run.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah. So it's.

[Adam Schafer]

So LED lights are very cheap to run. So the old sacrifice bulbs. Yeah.

[Sal DiStefano]

You know, by the way, like, they'll talk about the light on your phone and stuff like that. They know the effect it has on you. It's stimulatory. They want that. The last thing you want is for somebody to get sleepy.

[Justin Andrews]

Of course they're using their product.

[Sal DiStefano]

Well, here's what's crazy. You know what people used to do.

[Doug]

Like a slot machine.

[Sal DiStefano]

Listen, it wasn't that long ago, like, like a few decades ago, what people used to do before bed to help them get sleepy was read.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah.

[Sal DiStefano]

Now if you read, you probably read on your phone. It's the last thing you should do to get sleepy. It will keep you awake. You know, read a real book in bed with a soft light behind you, like candlelight, and you'll read 30, 40 minutes and you're like, yeah, that used.

[Justin Andrews]

To be like a hack for me to help me go to sleep.

[Sal DiStefano]

That's it.

[Justin Andrews]

Have a hard time, like, oh, pull a book out.

[Sal DiStefano]

So as I was going through this, I was like, oh, my God, we've really screwed ourselves up. Because not only that, but we also have temperature control. So as temperature drops, we also start to get sleepy. As light drops, we start to get sleepy. We wake up when they, when the, when it's when light starts to appear and when things get warmer. So it's as if we're supposed to live outside or. You know what I mean, with nature.

[Doug]

Yeah.

[Sal DiStefano]

And so we've designed our homes and everything to make it so that sleep is a problem. Sleep now is a challenge for majority of people. So it's interesting. This is why, by the way, you know, eight sleep we work with them.

[Justin Andrews]

I think that's the. To me, the. The bed temperature.

[Sal DiStefano]

Controlling it hacks it, right?

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah. I mean, lights are up there too, obviously. Trying to sleep with lights on and doing that, that would be terrible. But, I mean, that's an easy solve. I feel like that's like. At least it has been for us. Yeah, just turn them off. Turn your lights off. And if you've got some of those, like, orange lights or salt lamps, you have a fire. Like, we. I love the fireplace going. That's my favorite thing. Especially in the wintertime. That's easy. But the. The temperature control in the house. I have yet to meet a couple that is on the same page. Every couple I have ever met, and it's different for each couple. Who runs hot, who runs cold. But there seems to be a drastic difference. The. The sleep eight with the manageable sides like that, to me, is like the most. I mean, at least for me, it's been that big of a difference. Because as much as Katrina is somewhat compromised to my tipper, she's not where when she leaves, when she goes out of town, she just got back. She just left to Park City two weekends ago. We're in the middle of winter. Like, I open up all the windows, fans are on. I mean, it is freezing in the house, Max. And I sleep so good because that's how I want it. I want the house cold, I want the bed. I want everything cold, and I want to be all bundled up. So even though she's compromised, I still can't get it as cold as I would like it. But then the eight sleep allows me to put the bed there, so at least when I get under the covers, it is cold underneath that.

[Doug]

We never had the same covers. I'd always, like, stack a bunch of blankets on top of Courtney. And then I was like, really?

[Sal DiStefano]

Yeah.

[Doug]

Until, yeah, we were able to kind of control that a bit better.

[Justin Andrews]

With life changing, it's been life changing.

[Sal DiStefano]

I'm on top of the covers, Jessica's under them. That's how we sleep. I'm, like, half naked on top, and.

[Justin Andrews]

She'S like, that's what I mean. Like, is it. Have you guys met a couple where they're both husband and wife? Like, yeah, we like the exact same temperature. I've never met that. I've never met a couple.

[Sal DiStefano]

I wonder how it used to be. It was probably, you know, if you go back, you know, you know, eight hundreds of years, it was probably that the husband was probably holding his wife. So he's the One getting cold and he's keeping her warm and safe.

[Justin Andrews]

Sure. Yo. I definitely think that we've. The modern times have been evolved for the women more than anything else. I'm pretty sure that the most. Most men. Although I have seen some relationships where the girl. Yeah, yeah. But most, most guys like it.

[Sal DiStefano]

You know, it messes with your ability to tolerate temperature.

[Justin Andrews]

Menopause. So that's what that.

[Sal DiStefano]

Yes, but besides that is. Is actually being tired will do that. If you're ever sleep deprived, notice your intolerance to temperature changes. You're more cold, more hot. You just can't tolerate them if you're tired. I noticed this with myself. This is actually. This is also documented. Speaking of studies, by the way, remember the study we brought up that Jeff Nipper did on a cheek curl versus strict curl?

[Justin Andrews]

Oh yeah, right.

[Sal DiStefano]

And how he said there's no difference in hypertrophy, therefore you might as well pick the strict one because why risk the extra. You know, there's a flaw in that study that I was thinking about this morning as well. Okay. There are studies that show that if I incapacitate one arm, I put it in a cast and then I exercise the other arm, I will minimize to a degree the muscle loss on the arm. That's capacitated.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah.

[Sal DiStefano]

In other words, training my right arm. Most of the muscle building signal goes to the right arm, but some seems to go to the other arm as well because they were exercising one arm one way and the other arm the other way. There was some cross talk that might have messed up the study a little bit. You see what I'm saying? I. The. I think the only way to be accurate more. And I can't think of a more a better way to do the study because I think he did it well. Like you'd have to have twins, exercise differently or something like that because he.

[Doug]

Did it on himself. On one arm.

[Sal DiStefano]

It was all this. All the study subjects were one arm, cheek girl, the other arm and the.

[Doug]

Other arm on the individual.

[Sal DiStefano]

But there's that cross talk that goes over and the exerciser similar enough to. Where would you even see a difference.

[Doug]

If there was radiation effect? Right, Exactly.

[Justin Andrews]

The question I had was also the, the novelty aspect too. Like what if somebody always trained really, really strictly Because I mean to me that's. That's the one that always trumps this argument to me is that if you were. Because I. I mean, this was me. I told you guys that I like, I was super strict, super lightweight. Slow down, tempo. It wasn't till later Did I get into, like cheat exercising? More towards the powerlifting. When I started really caring about moving the weight, did I allow myself to start to put English on the bar, you know, and actually cheated up a little bit. And I got huge benefits from it. And. But I. But I also know that it's not the cheat curl or the cheat exercise that gave me a huge benefit, is that it was so novel. My body was so used to and adapted to this real strict lower weight, slow tempo, that throwing a weight that I hadn't lifted before and using a little momentum to get out there shocked my body. And I saw results in it. So, I mean, that's the other part to this study or any study like this, that you have to factor that in there.

[Sal DiStefano]

I would love to see a long study, like a year long, where you have this group do one workout the whole time, then this group change variables every three months to see what the difference. I think I know what the answer would be, but that would be such an expensive study. You know, you're talking about going strict and using lightweight and something like, you know, and stuff like that. You know, it's funny when you, when you look at people who are consistent in the gym, they tend to fall into one. One category. And I don't mean cleanly, although some people are clearly in one category versus the other. But some, some people value how they look more than the, the way that they perform, and other people value perform more than how they look. And you know, I would say I, I dip into either one. But I was just talking to Justin about this the other day because he's been working out and Justin's a performance guy. He 100. We know this.

[Doug]

Guilty.

[Sal DiStefano]

But I was, you know, talking with them. It's like, you know what? The truth is for me, if I had to pick, I would like being able to lift more weight is always more exhilarating for me than looks always has.

[Justin Andrews]

I'm so the other one. Yeah. I mean, I'm like, that's what I'm known for is the all show, no go guy. You know, that was like, that was my thing forever. Is this, like, I don't, I don't need to be able to lift all that weight so long as I look like I can lift all that way. No shame. No shame.

[Doug]

Girl ain't asking you about your pr.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah, yeah. I said, no chick has ever asked me when I take my shirt off, how much do you bench? Like, she's never has that. She either says, wow or she's not impressed One or the other.

[Sal DiStefano]

So I just love the feeling of like just, you know what I mean, just handling something really heavy and feeling really strong. It definitely is more.

[Doug]

Well, I mean it makes a powerful thing. It's just more exhilarating just for me.

[Sal DiStefano]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

Admittedly you guys, it's. You guys are better or. Right. More. Right, right. I don't, I don't disagree.

[Sal DiStefano]

It can go wrong too though. I mean, you, you know, there's more injury on this side. Yeah, for sure.

[Justin Andrews]

That's. I mean, that's your.

[Sal DiStefano]

I've had to embrace the look more as I've gotten older because. Because if I push performance now at my age and I continue to push.

[Justin Andrews]

That, it's just the risk is too high.

[Sal DiStefano]

Oh yeah, it turns out problems.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah.

[Sal DiStefano]

So now if you see me working out 95% of the time, it's, it's.

[Justin Andrews]

About, I mean, I also think that, I mean, yeah, again, admittedly I say that I'm that guy, but there's a part of me that like, I mean, I'm still in the performance aspect of my mobility and my technique and, and I want to be strong enough. Right. Like, I don't want to be like, you know, I, again, I need to be able to kick my son's friend's dad's asses. Right? That's like as long as I'm there, standard, right?

[Sal DiStefano]

You want to be the strongest dad?

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah, yeah. I mean, I just, that's easy.

[Sal DiStefano]

That's a low bar.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah. We live in Silicon Valley. It's not like tough. It's not that tough, you know what I'm saying? I'm competing with a bunch of Texas stuff, you know what I'm saying? So, so it's not a high bar, but hey, you know what I'm saying? Like as long, as long as, like they're impressed with my strength, you know what I'm saying? And I look good.

[Sal DiStefano]

I had, I had a kid that was going to my kids school. Luckily they weren't in the same grade because it really pissed them off. Pissed me off. There was a kid I saw, so John Fitch. Know who he is? Yeah. So great guy, badass fighter, right? I seen him, this was years ago. I seen him walking his kid to the same school as my kid's school. Now right away I was like, damn it. Damn.

[Doug]

There's another guy?

[Sal DiStefano]

Yeah, he's number one.

[Doug]

He's number one.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah.

[Sal DiStefano]

But I'm like, oh, your kid's younger than mine. I'm the toughest dad of the grade that my Kids mess with Joe. Did I ever tell you guys when I grappled with him years ago, you.

[Justin Andrews]

Know, I know you did. Back in the days when you were at the Hillsdale, right?

[Sal DiStefano]

Yeah. So I was. This is when I was really going hard in jiu jitsu, and Mike Swick, a friend of mine, was competing to fight. You should know, Call me. And he wanted me to come roll with him and Fitch because he was getting ready. You should. Was a kind of a bigger guy, and so I was a bigger guy. Not near. I wasn't obviously at the level of those guys, but I went and rolled with them.

[Justin Andrews]

Were you already a purple battle at this time? I was on your way.

[Sal DiStefano]

I was. Or I was just become. I was very competitive at this point. At this point, I could hold my own against most people in dojos, not like national level or anything like that. Right. So I was good, but I wasn't like UFC good. But I remember going against those guys and especially Fitch, who was a. He was a D1 wrestler. And it's like. Like, you could be a. You could be a great high school basketball player. You'd be awesome. College basketball player. Then you go in the NBA and suddenly, suddenly it's not like they're a little better than you. They're so much better than you're a toddler. Yeah. It's like you don't even know what you're doing anymore. I was going against those guys and the intensity and the speed was like. It was.

[Justin Andrews]

What's that. What's that guy's page? You guys follow that George Giorgio or Love that guy.

[Sal DiStefano]

Pull us. Pull us.

[Justin Andrews]

I think what's his name?

[Sal DiStefano]

He's like, take me down for a thousand.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah. I mean. I mean, that's such an example of that, right?

[Doug]

Like wrestler. Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

Because he's rest. He's not like, not wrestling. Athletic. Ex fighters. Wrestler. I mean, he's. He's. He's taken on anybody and everybody that will get him. And it just shows you three times the size. Yeah, it just shows you what. There's levels to the all games, dude. There's levels to all these games. And yeah, you could be good in your town. You could be good. Then there's like elite class and it's like where he's so good, extra 50 pounds. And you know a guy that's in a black belt isn't even good enough. Like, it's wild to see how good he is. What's his name? Giorgio Polis.

[Doug]

Yes.

[Justin Andrews]

Shout out everyone. I guarantee anyone listening has heard or Seen.

[Sal DiStefano]

I love watching.

[Doug]

And it's just like I'm always, oh, no, I wonder if he got this guy and he just went against, he went against.

[Sal DiStefano]

I think it was his brother who's a really high level wrestler and it was one of the better matches.

[Justin Andrews]

But I've gone down the rabbit hole too, to see if it's like true to his wins. He's. It's legit. Like, he's legit. By the way, speaking. I got it. I got to give you, Sal, your credit word where it's due on this type of stuff. Okay.

[Doug]

I like this.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah, I know you do. So feed off of it. And it's good for the podcast too, because I think obviously during the COVID time, we got this, you know, conservative Trump, you know, stamp on us because of, we, we spoke out about a few things and it's just like, you know, the, the culture shift is so wild to see and I guess maybe being in your 40s now, when you've been around for several different decades and, and politicians come through, come and go and swinging left, swinging right, and, and then getting older and wiser and being able to pull back and see things, it's such a trip to me to see this, this shift to, you know, patriotism now. That's crazy. So strong. And when it, when it gets me is when it, when I, I go, oh, wow, like, because so I sent a, I sent a clip to a couple friends and, and Katrina, even like, Matt, check this out. You know, like, this is talk about the culture shift right now. And like, you know, like patriotism type of deal. It was Cat Williams.

[Sal DiStefano]

Oh, yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

Okay. Do you know when that was? No, that was 2019.

[Sal DiStefano]

Oh, wow.

[Justin Andrews]

That wasn't even new.

[Sal DiStefano]

Wow.

[Justin Andrews]

So this is my point.

[Doug]

Like, you didn't even see that before.

[Justin Andrews]

Didn't even see that. Just a few years ago, everything scrubbed out and well, that's that Nobody wanted to share it.

[Sal DiStefano]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

And. Or now censored. Now it's being promoted to you. There's a lot of ways you can look at it.

[Sal DiStefano]

Sure.

[Justin Andrews]

You can look at it, Mel. Ways you can say, oh, it was scrubbed out. No one paid attention to it. No one was sharing it. Or you could say it wasn't being pushed to you. Like it's being pushed to you now. And you know, I bought into it. Like, whoa, check this out.

[Doug]

You know, you're finding out all that's true and then of what they're uncovering and, and they're, they're really digging into these audits. It's it's pretty alarming and I don't know why people aren't more alarmed of how much corruption and criminal act.

[Justin Andrews]

I just don't, I don't like the way that feels. It does. I don't like the way that feels. To me, that's this. It makes me not feel good about the club, dude. Yeah, yeah. Just. It's really, it's, you know, and I don't like it even when it's on the side. I agree with. Yeah, I just want to make that clear to the audience of like kind of where we stand on this because I know we've been pigeonholed into certain things because of saying we just scream out for transparency.

[Doug]

I mean, that was the biggest thing. It's like, you know, I want to know what, what, what's really happening and you're lying to me. You're obviously lying to me. If you're lying to me, I'm not going to accept it. That's it. Like, just don't lie to me.

[Justin Andrews]

But it just, it makes me just trust all sides of media, all channels, all outlets even less because it's like, yeah, here's something. Just because this is where they're all bought and paint moving this way.

[Sal DiStefano]

Look at Bud Light's advertising.

[Justin Andrews]

I know, I know how hard. I mean, couldn't go more redneck and redneck country. He's grilling a big steak, riding a lawnmower with his sketchers on it. I mean, it couldn't be more like.

[Doug]

That Middle America commercial with Harrison Ford. That was fantastic, dude.

[Justin Andrews]

They don't have any principles but that. So, yeah, see. And you know, of course, I mean, I'm, I like that. I like that stuff. Right? So if I, if I, I lean more like that. But I don't like that. I feel like it's being fed to me now just because of that. It's like, sure. And, and I don't, and I don't, I don't want to allow it to rile me up and get me excited, you know, about it because it's just like, it's all fake tempered. Yeah, it's fake. Where the were you three years ago? Absolutely. Where were you at with those views.

[Doug]

And those easy now, you know?

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah, I put a real bad taste in my mouth and it really, the fact that it got me that I literally forwarded that to, I think you guys and a couple other friends and I just. Katrina's in the shower. I'm like, oh, man. So she's like, what are you talking about like, oh, it's just wild how much culture shifting in this direction. It's like, well, so, yeah, church community.

[Doug]

And, and I was talking to, I believe he was your pastor at one point, Chad.

[Justin Andrews]

Yep.

[Doug]

And just, just, you know, that whole time period was really difficult because, you know, and I hadn't been going to church and because it was, I was very, very disappointed in a lot of the values. And I understand, like, they're in a very precarious situation. Like, they have to appease. They're going to lose. Lose.

[Justin Andrews]

Right.

[Doug]

They're going to get hammered by people that are all on board, and they're going to hammer on people that are like, you know, not up for it. But there was one church in this area that, that took a stand. And so I was like, that's the church.

[Sal DiStefano]

Yeah.

[Doug]

And I'm like, I see that. I see the ones that were fearless, you know, amidst, you know, being, you know, ridicule.

[Justin Andrews]

It's integrity.

[Doug]

It's integrity. Not a lot of people have it. And that's what, that's what that was very clear to me through this whole process.

[Justin Andrews]

I, I, I'm, I'm attracted to somebody that has opposing views than I do. So long as you're never consistent with it, no matter what.

[Sal DiStefano]

It's real.

[Justin Andrews]

And it's real. Like, I like that more than I like just people that agree with somebody that folds them. Yeah, yeah. Just because you agree with me now or whatnot.

[Sal DiStefano]

You know what, Justin, you brought up, what you brought up is very interesting because I didn't know this because I work with Chad. He coaches me and teaches me scripture and all that stuff. It actually said this was a very difficult part of the Bible for me to struggle with. It actually says in there, respect authority and honor. Honor the emperor, honor Caesar. This was during a time when they were getting killed. They were getting thrown to lions, burned alive, and they literally are preaching. No, no, you respect authority. So some churches saw that, read that, and said, okay, are we, who are we serving here? And where's the line? So some churches, when I go to, they did things virtually because they saw that and said, okay, we need to respect the law. We think this is. They grew during COVID They actually grew massively during that whole period of time. Very interesting.

[Justin Andrews]

So I don't know, it worked out for them.

[Sal DiStefano]

It did work out. It's really, really interesting. Let's go back to science. I found some cool studies on terpenes. So terpenes are found in plants, and it gives them their smell like there's.

[Justin Andrews]

The terpene and flavor. Right. Smell.

[Sal DiStefano]

Flavor, yeah. So like limonol gives you that lemony smell. Pineol gives you this, that kind of pine scent. Well, anyway, where I'm going with this is when they study terpenes and their effects on the body. Terpenes have cannabinoid like effects on the body. And when you combine them with cannabinoids like cbd, then you get this really powerful pronounced effect. So where am I going with this? The CBD market blew up for a while, started to fizzle because people were taking pure CBD products, getting very little results. And that's probably because they extracted the cbd, included none of the terpenes, none of the other cannabinoids. It was just cbd. When you combine it with other cannabinoids and the terpenes is when you get the big effect. So that's why, like our partners, Ned, you feel that. Have you ever felt a CV product? I never have, no. You take Ned, you feel it.

[Justin Andrews]

That's interesting.

[Sal DiStefano]

It's got all the other stuff. Yeah, dude. Because I've taken lots and lots of CBD things.

[Doug]

They have all their own unique effects too. Yeah.

[Sal DiStefano]

Yes.

[Doug]

Like people seek those different, like.

[Justin Andrews]

Well, I mean, this is also, you know, shout out to Ned and the. And for the people that don't know the history on that relationship. So when I was on my way out from the cannabis clubs, that was the, that was the new prevailing science that was coming. Yeah, we didn't know that. We didn't for the longest time. If you're been around that space or knew anything about it, like you talked about Indica and Sativa and it was like, this is what makes the difference on how we feel. And like, you know, the combinations. If it's an 80, 20 split. And that's kind of how we spoke to. And that was like, I needed to know that because we were educating the people that were coming in and purchasing and some were purchasing for pain, some were purchasing for insomnia, whatever. And so you needed to know like, oh, this will be more for this. Meanwhile, that whole time we were communicating that, not really realizing that the terpenes were the, the was the deciding factor on all the stuff that we were communicating related to sativa and etiquette. Now there's some crossover and some commonalities. Right. These indicators tend to have more of this, this tivas have more of that or whatever. But. So we weren't all wrong, but we didn't, we didn't have the complete Puzzle. I remember when I was leaving, but that science was just coming out and nobody was no brand, nobody, no, no clubs were talking about it yet. And so then when we fast forward a year or two later, mind pumps growing and stuff like that, I'm obviously out of that industry. We're interested in CBD looking for a product and we meet Ned and that was one of the things they were. And I remember telling Sal like, oh, you got to meet the guys and talk to them. You'll know more than I will get it. Yeah, they get it. And sure. I remember after you had the conversation with them, you're just like, like, oh yeah. These guys are, are presenting the right information and science. They really understand it. And why that's so important in this market is the same reason why we talk about the red light stuff. It's just so many charlatans flooded it. There's not, it's not FDA regulated. And so it's just like the supplement industry where there's a lot of pixie dust going, there's a lot of bad science, there's a lot of misinformation and the average consumer who doesn't know how to like figure it out but is interested because they heard, oh, it's good for pain or oh, it's good for sleep or it's oh, it's got these properties that then you just go online and you find the best deal and you buy it or your friend told you about nothing happens. And then nothing happens. And you're like, oh, this is bullshit, it doesn't work. And it's like, well, you bought something that was probably not what you needed and a product that is probably half of what it says it has. And so that's a big shout out to Ned. You know, they've always been a great partner and, and have done things the right way and it's cool to see their success.

[Sal DiStefano]

If you eat a high protein diet, you got to go to butcherbox. They deliver to your door grass fed meats, crate free pork, chicken, healthy wild caught fish to your door at great prices. They're amazing. If you're Interested, go to butcherbox.com mindpump by the way, if you're a new user and you go to that link butcherbox.com mindpump you can get between chicken breast, ground beef or top sirloin included in your box for free for a year and $20 off. But you have to use the code mind pump. All right, back to the show. This segment of the podcast is brought to you by trainerwebinar.com Adam and I get on and teach trainers and coaches how to be more successful, make more money, and get their clients better results. And it's all free. [e-mail] Our first caller is Deborah from Florida. Hey, Deborah, how are you?

[Justin Andrews]

Morning.

[Deborah]

Hey, I'm doing good. How are you guys?

[Sal DiStefano]

How can we help you?

[Deborah]

Well, so the question I had for you guys is in regards to my own personal training. So I coach. But throughout my life in coaching and my own health, I've never really done much of restrictions or anything like that. So October, November, I did my first bikini competition and I joined as figure. So that was the first time in my life I actually did restriction and prep and all that, which was a fun challenge. And the judges gave me the feedback that, you know, they loved me and all that, but that they would recommend me going to bikini skinny because I didn't quite build as much muscle and I have a little bit of a skinny frame. So I feel like I gained muscle easy in terms of definition but not bulky. So I will do another show in November, so I have a lot of time to train. During this first prep, I did use maps, anabolic and aesthetics, so I was trying to follow that plan. So I want to challenge myself to see how much can I gain. Can I stay to in figure because I don't want to quite go to bikini. It's not my style. Uh, so I wanted to try to stretch to gain and bulk. But then I also love running and I normally do one half marathon a year. So part of my question was like, is it even possible to do the bulking while it's still running? In the past, I've managed to run and train and not really lose muscle. I've been able to gain muscle during running season, but obviously not to the level of bulking for competition. So I wanted to have an idea if I have to give up running and since I have such a long time until actually would get in prep again, what does that even look like in terms of phases and training and, you know, like, it's such a long journey from here to there. But I feel I have to use it wisely if I actually want to gain as much muscle as I possibly would have to.

[Justin Andrews]

So let's, let's first address what the judges said and then what you want to do. And November is actually not a really long time away. If the judges told you that your physique, your current physique is going to do better in bikini and you want to do figure doesn't mean that's not possible. But to think that you're going to jump to that class and put enough size on to actually win or do well in figure before November is. Is probably not likely. I mean, it's just. That's a. That the. If they're telling you that, that tells me right away that they think your frame is. Is better for bikini. And by the way, I've coached many girls that went from bikini up to figure, figure down to bikini, and so I kind of know what it takes and what they're looking for. I would want you to give yourself at least an entire year of just dedicated to building and putting size on, to try and reach that. That level. Because if you were really close, they wouldn't say anything to you. They wouldn't go, oh, you probably belong a figure. They'd be like, oh, they would give you some critiques, maybe a little more shoulder definition or. And do that. But they're like, yeah, you probably belong in bikini. That means we got a ways to go to put enough mass and size on that. They think that you belong in that, which is a great goal. I love it. But I mean, now I'm looking at a picture right now of you, so we'd want to really put a entire year dedicated to just building. It's just building that. And, you know, could you do some running and cardio stuff along the way? You could, but you're also now prolonging that. You know, because the focus is completely to build, it doesn't mean you can't do. It's not possible. Because I know I'm gonna get a bunch of hate for saying that, but the reality is, if you were my client and our goal was to get up to figure and the judges are telling us we're bikini built, you know, we gotta. We got a good year of building ahead of us to focus on that.

[Sal DiStefano]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

Or, or, or get ready for a show and get into bikini. I mean, it's kind of, to be.

[Sal DiStefano]

Clear, like the question you're asking because you're competing. So we're, we're. When you compete, this is an extreme presentation sport of muscle and definition, all that stuff. So if your question was, can I be fit and healthy and sculpted and have a nice body and all that stuff and do my half marathon plus strength training. Yes, 100%. You're already there. That's not a problem. But you're. You're asking us if you can become competitive in. In figure, which is a very competitive sport, can you do that by November while also half the year training for half marathon. Probably not. You're going to slow yourself down.

[Justin Andrews]

Well, while also leaping a category.

[Sal DiStefano]

That's right.

[Justin Andrews]

That's like you competing in classic and then deciding you want to go to pro.

[Sal DiStefano]

It's very. It's going to be. Yeah. Very, very difficult. So you have to, like, figure out what your priority is. How. How badly do you want to compete in this category? Is this more important to you, to you than, let's say, general fitness and health and enjoying running? Because you're gonna have to sacrifice some of that for sure. You'll lose some of the skill of running for sure. In pursuit of this.

[Deborah]

Yeah. And my goal is not to win. Like, I don't fit into the category of somebody that wants to compete and win. I'm doing that more like as a way to challenge myself and to create new results and to push my discipline to a level that is normally not my level. What my goal would be is, like, do well enough in the feeling of if. I will go with figure. Feeling. I belong in figure, you know, because this one I did, and it was fun, but obviously I know I wasn't built. Helps for figure stage.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah.

[Deborah]

The beginning is just such a stretch for me. And just like the poses and I prefer to push the weights than to learn how to.

[Sal DiStefano]

I'm with you.

[Justin Andrews]

I get it. Trust me, I get it. My least favorite part of competing was that.

[Sal DiStefano]

Yes. I mean, you just gotta ask, you know, what's more important for you as a priority and where you want to go, you know, with that, you know, by the way, figure today. And you train naturally. You put that in your. In your email. Okay. Figure today is. Was bodybuilding 30 years ago for women. Figure. Female. Figure. Competitors have a lot of muscle. I know there's bodybuilding, female bodybuilding, which is a whole nother. That's like you're transitioning to male at that point in terms of the hormones they take and stuff like that. But figure today is. I mean, you have to build a lot of muscle to do that's very difficult to do.

[Justin Andrews]

No, you're right. Women's bodybuilding 10 years ago looks like what.

[Sal DiStefano]

I mean. Yeah, yeah, yeah. 20, 30 years ago. Like, you look at the first Miss Olympia and she would. She wouldn't even do well in a bikini today. She didn't have enough muscle. So, so, so really the question is priority, like, if. And I'll. I'll help you with this, right? Is health, general fitness, functionality, Is that your goal or is. Is it to look like a figure, competitor, more of a priority, because you're going to sacrifice to compete in figure. You're going to sacrifice your running ability, stamina, function, health to compete and figure. It's just. It's just the way it is. So you got to think, like, which one's more important? And, you know, and then whatever decision you make is totally fine, but you got to go all in with that.

[Deborah]

Yeah, well, for me, the priority is the first. It's more like the health, the function, like being.

[Sal DiStefano]

Yeah.

[Deborah]

At my best, which is again, with the longer. And I get that it's not such so long of a prep, but I really want to do prep a little bit different than what I did the first time around, because the first time I followed what the coach said, and there was quite a bit of some hardcore restrictions, and I'm like, man, it's not possible. I need to eat just broccoli. Like, you know, it's kind of like I would like to learn to. To do things maybe a little bit more. Yeah. Strict and disciplined, but I. I mean, understand the mechanics of it a little bit better as a coach as well. But for me, health is the priority, and the reason for the show is just to give me a deadline, because coming from an athletic background, I'm used to competitions. That's why I run half marathons, because I like the finish line. I like to get a map, and I like that feeling of I'm training for this. And with the gym, you don't have that right. You go there, you're painting, and after certain points, it's like, okay, I look good. I'm not training for looking good. So the training for the show was just to give me something that is putting me on a deadline and putting pressure. Because now, you know, I share on my social media that I'm doing this. So it gives you that feeling of I have something I'm training for, and every day matters because I'm in a training schedule. But it's not for me to win, and it's definitely not for me to ruin anything on my body. You know, it's not for me to bolic issues or to drive myself crazy. None of that, like, really matters for me. It just matters that when I get on that stage, I feel I did my best. I'm looking good, and I'm better than the last one, and I feel like, you know, way to go, girl. Like, you killed it, then.

[Sal DiStefano]

You're gonna be fine. You'll be fine. Keep doing what you're doing. Go into bulk, you know, train appropriately, do your half marathon. You'll bring a better package than you did last time for sure. And I like your attitude, I really do. Because, you know, the, the stage figure fitness body was extreme. It's not healthy. I get it though. But if you like function and health and longevity and mobility, then those are not the sports. Those aren't going to be the sports for you at all. Especially if you do. You coach other people for health and fitness, right? Yeah, I mean, I think you'll do better going the direction you're going and not going extreme anyway. And then, you know, as far as like posting on social media, you can always present your progress just to your, your social media and not have to go on stage. The that's actually just as valuable, if not more valuable than competitions now anyway, you know, in terms of building your business and showing kind of that.

[Justin Andrews]

Are you, Deborah, are you trying to build your training business right now or is it more like a side hustle for you? Are you actually trying to build it and scale it?

[Deborah]

No, I'm a full time coach. Like I have a location that we do coaching and we have like a health bar. I had a fitness studio in Canada before, but now in Florida I don't have a studio. But my coaching is more focused in lifestyle and balance, which is why I never done restriction because where I with people is in. You don't need to be perfect. I just got abs because I wanted to prove to people I could have abs and eat pizza. Literally that's kind of got me to fitness was people doing the bikini shows being so extreme. And I was like, I'll show to you guys that I can have abs eating pizza and not eating chicken and broccoli every day.

[Sal DiStefano]

Good. Yeah, no good.

[Justin Andrews]

I love that. I mean, I think it's a great, a great overall message. Have you gone through our coaching course yet?

[Deborah]

No, not yet.

[Justin Andrews]

Oh, wow. We gotta get you in there. Have you heard about the CRM that we're doing also? All that stuff is. Oh man. That all.

[Deborah]

At the Coach Con.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah, right.

[Deborah]

And after Coach Con I was like, I need to actually focus on the business and not do so many certifications. But I saw you guys launched one and I was interested and curious and I had a quick look on it. But I haven't really gone down to see what you guys were offering with that.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah, if you want, I can have Ann, who's our educator and runs all that. Ours is focused. Just so you know, we didn't want to compete with the certifications like nasm, ncsf, although we're accredited, ours is focused on the business side, helping you scale, make more money. Everything from social media, lead generation, email marketing, things like that. And so probably pertains more. If you want, I can have and give you a call and kind of give you an overview of what that looks like and show you what we're doing.

[Deborah]

Yeah, yeah, for sure.

[Justin Andrews]

Okay.

[Sal DiStefano]

And then as a coach, do you have Maps prime or Prime Pro? Do you. Do you use any of the correctional exercises for them?

[Deborah]

No, I haven't. No.

[Sal DiStefano]

Let me send you. I'll send you Maps Prime. I think you'll find value in that with your clients, just from a correctional exercise perspective.

[Deborah]

Awesome. Thank you.

[Sal DiStefano]

You got it. All right.

[Deborah]

Now, if I may, just a quick question. Just in sense of. With the months I have had now, because again, I've never done bulking.

[Justin Andrews]

Yep.

[Deborah]

What would that look like in terms of the phases? Because I have the anabolic anesthetics, and I was just planning to get back to the beginning on those, but that will not take me all the way. Right. So, like, with all the months I have ahead of me, seven, eight months, what would that look like in terms of how do I phase my training?

[Sal DiStefano]

I like anabolic, aesthetic, symmetry. And then you can go back to aesthetic or split.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah, basically. What do we have? Nine months. So it's three programs. Three programs, yes. You have three programs to. And I would make aesthetic the one that is your prep. Yeah. Ending with so. So revert. What's the work backwards? So aesthetic is the last three months. And then before that, you could do a lot of different things. You could do strong, you could do anabolic. You do anabolic advanced. Like, you could go anabolic, Anabolic advanced and then aesthetic.

[Sal DiStefano]

That's a great one.

[Justin Andrews]

That would be a great order right there. And if you don't have Anabolic advanced, you have Anabolic Advanced or.

[Deborah]

No, I have Anabolic because I got like a package. So I bought the Anabolic aesthetics and the butt builder. Those are the three.

[Justin Andrews]

Okay. Okay. Well, then I'll have Doug send you over Anabolic advance, because that's what I would love to see you do. I'd love you to go anabolic, Anabolic advanced and then Maps Aesthetic going into your show. That would lay out the entire time.

[Deborah]

Well, that makes it very clear for me. Thank you, guys.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah, of course.

[Sal DiStefano]

Yeah, Good luck.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah, good luck, Deborah. I hope we see you in the course, too.

[Deborah]

Thank you. Yes. Thank you so much, guys. I appreciate your time and giving me the chance to talk with you. I always love everything you guys do, so thank you for all the good work you put in there.

[Justin Andrews]

Thank you.

[Sal DiStefano]

Yeah, that's good. You know, it's. You have to often boil it down to, okay, well, what's the real priority? What's more important to you? Because it's easy to get caught up in the. I want everything.

[Justin Andrews]

Right. Right.

[Sal DiStefano]

I want everything. So. But you can't do everything. The body doesn't work that way. And the more extreme the everything, you know, the goals within the everything represent, the more impossible it is to do.

[Doug]

You just end up compromising and extending your timeline, and you just have to be honest with yourself with that and what's your main priority? And stick with it.

[Justin Andrews]

She has the right mindset for someone that's going to do that. Right? So. And I mean, that's. I guess, what I really wanted to get to the bottom of, because I know what those categories look like. I know if the judges are saying that I know what it takes to. To go to the next category up, it's difficult. It takes time. But if you also don't care, you know, I'm saying, like, you don't care if they place you 12th or 10th or 5th, or you're just, like, you want to prove to yourself you could do it. You want to use the framework of. Of accountability and teaching others. It's like, oh, in that case, well, then you could do all of it. You could do the marathon. You can do the training for it. You could. You can do all of it. Now. You. You. You definitely won't bring the best version of you because it's not all you care about. But that's okay. I mean, I. With the way she communicated, it made sense. It's like, I like the accountability piece. I can show people I'm doing it. It's like, okay, well, if that's the case and you don't care what place you really get, well, in that case, then we can do all of this stuff. Stuff.

[Adam Schafer]

Our next caller is Natalie from Illinois.

[Sal DiStefano]

Hi, Natalie.

[Justin Andrews]

Hi, Natalie.

[Sal DiStefano]

How can we help you?

[Natalie]

Hi.

[Justin Andrews]

How you doing?

[Natalie]

Thank you guys for taking my call today. I really appreciate you taking the time.

[Sal DiStefano]

You got it. How can we help you?

[Natalie]

So I started listening to you guys a few months ago, and since then, I've purchased your map starter program. In 2023, I was diagnosed with fibromyalgia, and it led me to make a of lifestyle changes since then. My question for you guys is, do you have suggestions for people working through your Maps program who experience chronic pain and would you make any adjustments?

[Sal DiStefano]

Yeah, good question. I have a lot of experience with this. The most important thing for you to do is manage stress, period. End of story. Now stress. When I say stress, sometimes we think about, oh, my stressful job or more stressful situations. I'm also talking about things like lack of sleep, poor diet, lack of sunlight and exercise. So when I had clients who, who suffer from fibromyalgia, the training intensity was very carefully monitored. I would the we would train at moderate intensity and if we got any hint of a sign, if any excess fatigue, we would back off. Through this process, I was able to successfully train these people without any major flare ups and we were able to progress and we were just careful about it. So what you don't want to do is go to the gym and be like, I feel good, I'm going to go crush it. No, no, no, I feel good. I'm going to go moderate. That's it. Oh, I feel bad. I'm going to go real easy and be consistent with that. And you'll find that your body will progress just like anybody else is.

[Justin Andrews]

I see she started with Map Starter. That's the right program. It's a great choice.

[Boat]

Okay, good.

[Natalie]

I was wondering because I've never like worked out at a gym before, like consistently before this. So I thought that was like the best place for me to start.

[Justin Andrews]

Great place for you to start.

[Sal DiStefano]

Now, regardless of any of our programs that you follow, the thing that you manage the most is intensity. So starter maps, anabolic maps, strong suspension, whatever it is you follow, it's the intensity that's the most important thing. So you can do volume and frequency. They can also cause too much stress. But intensity will get you there faster than anything else. I mean, you could do one workout with just extreme, ridiculous intensity and cause some big problems. So you just focus on techniques and control and form and all that stuff and then slowly allow yourself to progress. It'll be totally fine.

[Natalie]

Yeah, for myself with the starter program, I've like when I go to the gym, I've kind of like slowed it down a little bit. And since I don't have any experience, I've been like going pretty slow. Just trying to make sure I'm getting everything right. Like the volume isn't like anything crazy, but I just want to make sure that I'm getting like the movement right first.

[Justin Andrews]

I love that.

[Doug]

Yeah, perfect mentality to have intention like that. And two, sharpening the mechanics and making sure like really form is of the Utmost importance. And that's where you're going to progress a lot. Like the skill of working out that you're learning and acquiring, you're going to actually progress with that. It's not always just load that we're focusing on.

[Justin Andrews]

So, Natalie, are you in our private forum yet?

[Natalie]

No, I'm not. Actually.

[Justin Andrews]

I'm gonna. I'm gonna have Dev put you in there. I would love for us to. To go through this process with you anytime I have somebody new to the gym and getting started. Just so you have direct access to us. Anytime in that private forum, you get, you know, you feel something when you're working out, you're not certain about something that we're doing. You just go in there, you post, you tag one of us or all of us and let us help you through this process. Because how you. How you get started really tends to dictate how consistent you continue to be. And so I want to make sure that we help you through that process.

[Doug]

Yeah. And if you need to modify anything, like, I don't know if there's any specific exercises that might, you know, you notice later on or the next day affected you a little bit more with that. Like, we can kind of work with you on adjusting things, so it'd be good to have you in the forum for sure.

[Natalie]

Thank you. I would really appreciate that.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah.

[Natalie]

I'm kind just trying to figure it all out. So some. Some guidance would be really helpful.

[Justin Andrews]

That's why we're. That's why we're here, Natalie, for sure. So please, please use us and let us help you through it. No question. Is a dumb question. Okay. Too. So even if you think it's silly, post it in there. Tag us. Let us walk you through this. Really? Really. And all of us have had a lot of experience with clients that suffer from this, and everything that Sal is telling you is right. And that looks so different for each person. So. So it's, you know, there's not a generic answer of, oh, do it this way, or do these things, and you're going to be fine. It's like how your body responds could be totally different. I've seen a wide variety of that. And so just communicate as you go through that with us so we have insight on what's going on and let us help you through it.

[Natalie]

Okay, thank you.

[Justin Andrews]

All right.

[Natalie]

Yeah, I feel like, because it is so different with everybody that, you know, my metric for, like, progress is, like, pain level instead of, like, like, any gains that I'm getting. So I think, like, it's just a, I don't know, a bit different, I think, and trying to like figure it all out.

[Sal DiStefano]

Yep. Yeah. But I, I, I, I've had, I have really good experience with this with some clients I trained for years and they, they made a great progress. Uh, we just were very careful managing the intensity of the workouts. That's it.

[Natalie]

Well, thank you. That makes me feel really excited and like, glad that, that you know, it's possible and you know, exercise really does help. So. Yes, I'm really excited that I found you guys.

[Justin Andrews]

I'm glad you heard. I think I saw you wrote down that you just recently found us. It's only been a few months.

[Natalie]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

How did you find the podcast?

[Natalie]

I was actually listening to Dr. John DeLoney and he was talking about you guys.

[Sal DiStefano]

Oh, awesome.

[Justin Andrews]

We love John.

[Doug]

Sweet.

[Natalie]

Yeah, he's really great. So I was listening to him and he was recommending you guys to one of the people that called into him. And so that's how I ended up looking and finding you guys.

[Justin Andrews]

Awesome.

[Sal DiStefano]

Thanks for telling us.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah, glad we got you in here. So we'll take care of you through this process. Natalie.

[Natalie]

Thank you so much, guys.

[Sal DiStefano]

Thank you.

[Justin Andrews]

All right, you have a good one.

[Doug]

Take care.

[Sal DiStefano]

You know the whole, the interesting thing about this is because, so with fibromyalgia, stress is the biggest, like just your body's ability to tolerate stress. That's the, yes, that's the biggest predictor of, you know, am I going to get these crazy flare ups of pain?

[Justin Andrews]

Well, it's autoimmune, right?

[Sal DiStefano]

Yeah, well, yeah, that's what they think. And you know what's interesting about this is exercise increases or improves your ball, your body's ability to deal with stress. So properly applied exercise is, is a great way to treat the symptoms of fibromyalgia. That being said, the over application of exercise, if you want to get in a lot of pain, that's an easy way to do it, is go beat yourself up in the gym. But it's also simultaneously this incredible answer. You just have to manage it properly. And like I said, I've had really good success with this with clients.

[Adam Schafer]

Our next caller is Boat from Thailand.

[Sal DiStefano]

Boat, what's up man?

[Justin Andrews]

Hey, how can we help you? Hey.

[Boat]

Hi guys. Yeah, wow. Now it's 1:00am in the morning, so for me, so I might sound a little bit sleepy. So I'm sorry for that. My question is about training to failure. Basically how do I know if I'm training to failure or not? Now I do not really Want or never? Have I tried training to failure before. I just, you know, leave two in the tank, like you guys always said now. But that's where I get confused. Let's say I'm doing bench for three sets of 10, and on the first set, I can do 10 comfortably with good form, and I know that I could probably do two more comfortably, and that, I think, is leaving two in the tank. Now, when I get to the second set, right around the ninth rep, I noticed that I started to slow down. And I think in one of the episodes Adam said this is called something of, like, a tempo failure because I'm slowing down. It's not the same anymore. But anyway, at night rep, the form is still intact, and I know that I could probably grind out three more reps out of me. So I did one more rep just to get 10. Is that still living two in the tank, seeing that I could probably grind out two more or like I said that, you know, or be. I just turned to failure because I slowed down the weight.

[Sal DiStefano]

Good.

[Boat]

And then after that, what should I do with the third set? Should I just lower the weight down to sort of make sure that I could get 10 reps with good form without slowing down, or is doing the same weight but only around. Let's say it rips. Okay?

[Sal DiStefano]

Yeah. Okay.

[Justin Andrews]

Good question.

[Sal DiStefano]

Good. So leaving two in the tank means you think, by the way, this is all based off of perception, effort. You think to yourself, I could probably grind out two more reps and finish the last rep. That's leaving two more in the tank. Okay. So if I'm going, if my set is 10 and I get to 10 and it's hard and I go, I think I could maybe squeeze out two more, then I stop right there. That's leaving two in the tank. So now second part of the question is, do I go lighter so I can do 10 reps, or do I just do less reps? Both of them are fine.

[Justin Andrews]

Yep. I. I prefer to go less reps until my reps start to knock me into another training. Like a training, like, cycle. So, meaning, like, let's say we have. You have. When we're training, like, power strength, it's like four to six reps. When we're training hypertrophy, it's that, you know, eight to 12, and then endurance is like 15 plus. I'll. I'll keep shortening my reps. So let's say the first set, it's ten, and then the second set, it's nine. Third set, it's eight. I'M still. Okay, now let's say by if I had a four set of something, I could only do like five, well, then I'm gonna probably lower the weight so I can still get more like 8 reps. Does that make sense? So I'll just. I'll just shave. I'll shave reps. Reps. So long as I'm still staying.

[Sal DiStefano]

That's why it has a range.

[Justin Andrews]

Yes. In. In that range, once I start getting in the next range where I'm in now, I'm getting down to like five by five type training. Well, now I'm. I need to, I need to lower the weight because ideally we're supposed to be training in this 8 to 10 or 8 to 12 cycle. So I'll. I'll manipulate reps first until it starts to lower so much that I'm dipping out of that range. And then if I start dipping on the range, I'll just pull weight off the bar so I can stay in that range. Does that make sense? Yeah.

[Boat]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Sal DiStefano]

How long have you been strength training for?

[Justin Andrews]

Two and a half years.

[Boat]

Before MAPS program, say six months.

[Sal DiStefano]

Okay, so you've been. So at least a few years of strength training.

[Boat]

Yeah, about three. Almost three years now.

[Sal DiStefano]

And what program are you following right now, maps?

[Boat]

Anabolic Advanced.

[Sal DiStefano]

Oh, good. See, Anabolic Advanced, I was just going to recommend that because in Anabolic Advanced, you do go to failure on some of your sets. Sets. And that gives you a better gauge of what stopping two reps short feels like.

[Justin Andrews]

I think that's why his answer.

[Sal DiStefano]

Yeah. Because sometimes what happens is we stop two reps short and we never go to failure. Never go to failure. And we start to lose grasp of stretching our capacity. Yeah. What that is. So once you go to fail, you're like, oh, I know what that feels like. Then you can stop a little bit more accurately to rep short. So I'm glad you're on that program. It's perfect.

[Boat]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I actually, like Adam said, I asked this because I knew I'm going to start it animally advanced.

[Sal DiStefano]

Good, good.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah.

[Sal DiStefano]

When did you. Have you been doing it yet or have you not started it yet?

[Boat]

I just finished phase two last week on the vlog week right now. That's why, you know, meeting you at 1am in the morning doesn't seem. Doesn't sound too bad.

[Sal DiStefano]

Good. How's your progress been going?

[Boat]

It's going good. It's going good. I can feel me getting stronger. I can also see in the mirror that I look a little bit bigger Although the weight does stay the same. But like you probably said, you know, oh, you're in a sweet spot right now. Same weight, getting bigger. So. Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah.

[Sal DiStefano]

Good. Good job.

[Justin Andrews]

That is a sweet spot. You're doing good. You're doing good.

[Sal DiStefano]

Yeah.

[Boat]

Yeah.

[Sal DiStefano]

That's great. All right, man.

[Justin Andrews]

I like it.

[Boat]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah. Well, thank you very much.

[Boat]

Thank you.

[Justin Andrews]

Yep. Thank you.

[Boat]

Thank you. Thank you very much for letting me join this call. It's been. I, I could not believe when I got the email from you guys.

[Sal DiStefano]

Hey, can we send you something? Let's send them a free program.

[Justin Andrews]

What do you want?

[Sal DiStefano]

What do you want to follow next after Anabolic Advance?

[Boat]

I actually had, like, my plan laid out for the year. Maybe if you. Okay, Can I run it with you real quick?

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah.

[Sal DiStefano]

Let's hear it. It.

[Boat]

Yeah. So I'm, I'm again, I'm, I'm on animal defense with the bulk. And after this, starting March, I'll be running symmetry on a cut.

[Justin Andrews]

Awesome.

[Boat]

After that, I'll go with aesthetic on the bulk. After that, I'll go with anabolic, just normal anabolic on a cut. And then at the end of the year, I'll be doing all time on a ball.

[Sal DiStefano]

Wow. Dude.

[Justin Andrews]

Hey, great plan. Great plan.

[Sal DiStefano]

You really, you really, really pay attention to the show.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Sal DiStefano]

Are you in our forum? Can we put you in our forum?

[Boat]

That would be great. I, I, I'm not in your forum, but I attend one of the trainer webinar, and I think one of it was about training over the holidays.

[Sal DiStefano]

Yeah.

[Boat]

So I try to schedule some deload weeks in during the holidays so I could enjoy my time with my family.

[Justin Andrews]

Nice. I love it. Doing good. Let's put you in the forum.

[Sal DiStefano]

Yeah, I'll put you in the forum, bro.

[Justin Andrews]

Have Doug send you access to that. So we'll see you in there. Great plan. Great, Great plan this year too. You really laid it out. Nice.

[Sal DiStefano]

That's perfect.

[Justin Andrews]

Good plan.

[Boat]

Thank you. Thank you.

[Sal DiStefano]

All right, man, take it easy.

[Boat]

All right, bye.

[Justin Andrews]

Right.

[Boat]

Thank you.

[Sal DiStefano]

That's. He listens to the show and takes notes. That's exactly how I would. I mean, that's a great layout.

[Doug]

You know, it's on point. Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

I felt like I didn't communicate it very well. Well, more fumbly over here. But I think this is an area where people get hung up a bit with when a program says, you know, 10 reps or 15 reps or fire like that, they have to follow that exact rep. And it's like, you know, so long as I Stay close in that range. Right. So if I'm like in two or three reps. Yeah.

[Doug]

That's how I deal with it.

[Justin Andrews]

And I just.

[Doug]

The third set.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah. And I just keep lowering the rep, you know, to where I'm two, two reps short of failure until I keep lowering the reps to where it's like, oh, now I'm a totally different phase. Yeah, now I'm in a different phase. Now I'm in five by five type of phase when I'm trying to be.

[Doug]

Trying to improve just the weight.

[Justin Andrews]

So then I adjust the way otherwise I just keep, you know, shaving off the, the, the wraps that way easier.

[Sal DiStefano]

Yeah. Thailand, one of the most beautiful countries I've ever visited by the way. It is. It looks like another love the planet.

[Doug]

I'd love to kill you.

[Sal DiStefano]

If you like Mind Pump, come find us on Instagram. Justin is at Mind Pump. Justin, I'm at mind pump DiStefano and Adam's @ Mind Pump Out.

[Adam Schafer]

Thank you for listening to Mind Pump. If your goal is to build and shape your body dramatically improve your health and energy and maximize your overall performance, check out our discounted RGB super [e-mail] the RGB Super Bundle includes maps, Anabolic maps, performance and Maps aesthetic. Nine months of phased expert exercise programming designed by Sal, Adam and Justin to systematically transform the way your body looks, feels and performs with detailed workout blueprints and over 200 videos. The RGB Super Bundle is like having Sal, Adam and Justin as your own personal trainers, but at a fraction of the price. The RGB Super Bundle has a full 30 day money back guarantee and you can get it now. Plus other valuable free [e-mail] if you enjoy this show, please share the love by leaving a Subscribe a 5 star rating and review on itunes and by introducing Mind Pump to your friends and family. We thank you for your support and until next time, this is Mind Pump.

[Aaron Mahnke]

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[I]

Hi, I'm Chris Gethard and I'm very excited to tell you about Beautiful Anonymous, a podcast where I talk to random people on the phone. I tweet out a phone number. Thousands of people try to call. Talk to one of them. They stay anonymous. I can't hang up. That's all the rules. I never know what's gonna happen. We get serious ones. I've talked with meth dealers on their way to prison. I've talked to people who survived mass shootings, crazy funny ones. I talked to a guy with a goose laugh, somebody who dressed dresses up as a pirate on the weekends. I never know what's going to happen. It's a great show. Subscribe today. Beautiful Anonymous.