2541: This Strength Building Technique Activates More Muscle Fibers... & You're Probably Not Using It (Listener Live Coaching)

Summary

Mind Pump: Raw Fitness Truth
Episode 2541: This Strength Building Technique Activates More Muscle Fibers... & You're Probably Not Using It (Listener Live Coaching)
Release Date: February 26, 2025
Hosts: Sal Di Stefano, Adam Schafer, Justin Andrews, Doug Egge
Producer: Doug Egge

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1. Introduction to Isometrics

The episode kicks off with Doug Egge addressing a common barrier many fitness enthusiasts face in maximizing their strength and muscle gains: the underutilization of isometric exercises.

Doug [03:50]:
"The vast majority of you are killing your gains. You're not reaching your full potential because you're not doing this. One strength building technique that has been proven dramatically to improve your strength, build muscle, and activate more muscle fibers. What is it? Isometrics. You got to do those."

2. Understanding Isometric Exercises

Isometric exercises involve muscle contractions without any visible movement in the angle of the joint. Doug clarifies that overcoming isometrics—pushing against an immovable object—are particularly effective in activating a higher number of muscle fibers compared to traditional lifting methods.

Doug [04:08]:
"Isometrics are done in other strength sports quite a bit, but they're not as popular because they don't look cool. Like, if I film myself doing an isometric, what am I doing? I'm not moving. It's not nearly as cool or awesome or fun to look at, so it just doesn't sell as much as me lifting away."

3. Historical Significance and Practical Application

Isometric training has a rich history among strength athletes and bodybuilders, often used for posing and demonstrating muscular control. However, its static nature has contributed to its decline in mainstream popularity.

Doug [06:05]:
"Isometrics were extremely popular with strength athletes way back in the day. It was, like, one of the preferred ways of exercise back when strength athletes or even bodybuilders had to show what they could lift back in the day."

4. Benefits of Incorporating Isometrics

Doug emphasizes that integrating isometrics into a regular workout regimen can significantly enhance strength and muscle gains without the excessive fatigue typically associated with high-volume training.

Caller [07:47]:
"The only way for me to do that in a safe, effective way is through these types of isometrics."

Doug [12:18]:
"If you add isometrics before your lifts, the rest of your lifts will be more effective. It's a very easy, basic, general way to add isometrics in your training."

5. Isometrics for Rehabilitation and Safety

One of the standout benefits of isometric training is its low risk of injury, making it an excellent choice for individuals recovering from injuries or those who are new to strength training.

Doug [16:09]:
"This is the best strength training technique for rehabbing an injury. And it's excellent for people who are deconditioned."

6. Practical Tips for Implementing Isometrics

Doug provides actionable advice on how listeners can seamlessly integrate isometric exercises into their routines:

• Start with Short Sessions: Adding just 15 minutes of isometrics daily can lead to noticeable improvements.
• Use Minimal Equipment: Isometrics can be performed at home using simple tools like resistance bands or body weight.
• Frequency Matters: Since isometrics are less taxing, they can be incorporated more frequently without compromising recovery.

Caller [14:00]:
"I do isometric calf holds in the shower and that's all I do. Just that alone, I see a significant difference."

7. Real-World Applications and Listener Experiences

Listeners share personal anecdotes highlighting the effectiveness of isometrics in their fitness journeys. From enhancing calf development to improving overall strength, these testimonials underscore the versatility of isometric training.

Doug [19:43]:
"If you add 15 minutes of isometrics every single day to your routine, you've added something that's probably going to significantly improve your strength and muscle gain and not really compromise the recovery."

8. Shifting Focus: Exercise for Children

The conversation transitions to the importance of fostering a positive relationship with exercise in children. Doug and the hosts discuss strategies to ensure that children view physical activity as enjoyable rather than a chore, emphasizing the role of parents in modeling healthy behaviors.

Doug [21:03]:
"The most important thing to consider when it comes to exercise for your kids is not the programming, it's not the exercise itself, it's not even the technique. The most important thing to consider is the relationship your child builds with exercise."

9. Nutrition and Lifestyle for Kids

A significant portion of the discussion revolves around the impact of whole foods vs. processed foods on children's health and their lasting relationship with food.

Caller [25:06]:
"Like they're all extremely bright colored food dyes and yes, it does. And I look, I'm a parent. Okay, I get it. It's a lot of work. Then the biggest struggle that you challenge with when you, you challenge with you feed your kid is just like, they're not gonna eat it. Are they gonna eat it? They're not gonna eat it, you know, type of deal."

10. Addressing Listener Call-In Questions

a. Ron from Rhode Island [55:26 – 67:44]: Overtraining Concerns

Ron, a 54-year-old weighing 665 pounds, seeks advice on his extensive workout routine, which spans two hours daily, five days a week. Despite consistent training, he feels demotivated and questions the efficacy of his approach.

Doug [55:46]:
"If you cut it down to an hour, I don't think you'd see any reduction in progress. You might actually see yourself progressing more. But really the only way to know that is to test it out and see for yourself."

Sal & Adam [58:24]:
They suggest trying a structured program like Maps Anabolic, which offers organized workouts that could potentially yield better results with reduced time investment.

b. Andrea from California [68:17 – 73:38]: Fat Memory and Weight Maintenance

Andrea, a certified personal trainer struggling to maintain her goal weight, inquires about the concept of fat memory—the tendency for weight gain to return after reaching a goal.

Doug [69:00]:
"Fat cells grow and shrink, and you really only add the number of fat cells to your body. Adding fat cells would make gaining body fat faster."

Caller [70:36]:
Explains that rapid weight gain can lead to an increase in fat cells, making subsequent weight loss more challenging and easier to regain fat.

Doug [75:48]:
"If you think of the body as an adaptation machine and let's say you lose 50 pounds of body fat and then gain it back and you do this every two years. At a certain point your body is probably like, this is going to happen again."

c. Kyle from New Hampshire [76:02 – 89:45]: Massive Weight Loss Strategies

Kyle, standing at 6'1" and weighing over 390 pounds, seeks guidance on effective strategies to lose 200 pounds. He expresses concerns about traditional advice like reverse dieting, which seems counterintuitive for someone with significant weight to lose.

Doug [79:34]:
"Prioritize the protein first from whole natural foods. So what we're not saying is eat how you currently eat and add the protein on top of it. Not necessarily. What we're saying is with every meal, start with protein and stick to only whole natural foods."

Sal & Adam [84:35]:
They recommend building a strong foundational relationship with food and exercise, emphasizing gradual progress and the importance of consistent, manageable steps over drastic changes.

11. Closing Remarks

The episode concludes with the hosts encouraging listeners to engage with their programs and highlighting the importance of sustainable, science-backed fitness practices. While advertisements and promotions are interspersed, the core focus remains on actionable fitness advice and empowering listeners to optimize their health journeys.

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Notable Quotes

• Doug [03:50]:
  "The vast majority of you are killing your gains. You're not reaching your full potential because you're not doing this. One strength building technique that has been proven dramatically to improve your strength, build muscle, and activate more muscle fibers. What is it? Isometrics. You got to do those."

• Caller [07:47]:
  "So the secret sauce as a trainer is learning to integrate [isometrics] into your regular training."

• Doug [16:09]:
  "This is the best strength training technique for rehabbing an injury."

• Doug [21:03]:
  "The most important thing to consider when it comes to exercise for your kids is the relationship your child builds with exercise."

• Doug [69:00]:
  "Fat cells grow and shrink, and you really only add the number of fat cells to your body."

• Doug [75:48]:
  "If you think of the body as an adaptation machine and let's say you lose 50 pounds of body fat and then gain it back and you do this every two years, at a certain point your body is probably like, this is going to happen again."

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Conclusion

Episode 2541 of Mind Pump: Raw Fitness Truth delves deep into the underappreciated world of isometric training, elucidating its unparalleled benefits in muscle activation and strength enhancement. Through expert discussions and real-world listener questions, the hosts provide a comprehensive guide on integrating isometrics into diverse fitness routines, addressing concerns ranging from overtraining to weight maintenance. Additionally, the episode underscores the critical importance of fostering positive exercise habits in children, advocating for a balanced approach to fitness and nutrition. Whether you're a seasoned lifter or embarking on a transformative weight loss journey, this episode offers invaluable insights to elevate your health and fitness endeavors.

Transcript

[Sal DiStefano]

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[Justin Andrews]

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[Sal DiStefano]

If you want to pump your body and expand your mind, there's only one place to go. Mind Pump Mind Pump with your hosts.

[Adam Schaefer]

Sal Destefano, Adam Schaefer and Justin Andrews.

[Doug]

You just found the most downloaded fitness, health and entertainment podcast. You guessed it, this is Mind Pump, right? In today's episode we had people call in. We got to help them on air, we coached them on air. But this was after the intro. In the intro we talked about fitness science, nutrition, mind muscle building, fat loss. It's a great time. If you ever want to be on an episode like this, call in, have us coach you on air. Email us your [e-mail] this episode is brought to you by some sponsors. The first one is joovv. This is Red Light Therapy. Red Light Therapy really really works. It's backed by lots of studies. Joovv is the only one we support. Go check them out. Go to Joovv.com that's J-O-O V-V.com mindpump Use the code mind pump. Get $50 off your purchase. This episode is also brought to you by Luminos by Entera. This is skincare products with GHKCU peptide inside 3%. It's the highest percentage amount of that peptide for better skin. The stuff really works. Go check them out. Go to enteraskincare.com that's e n t e r a skincare.com mpm use the code npm. Get 10% off your order. Also, one more thing. We're doing group coaching. That's right. If you're trying to get back into shape, if you were in shape before, got out of shape, get back into shape. We're looking for a group of people who want to get coached by a mind pump trainer and by us. We're going to pop in as well. Go to mindpumpgroupcoaching.com Sign yourself up if there's any space available. Finally, there's three days left for our maps sale. Maps, Anabolic and the no BS six pack formula combined, $59.99. That saves you $114 if you want to do it. And you should go to mapsfebruary.com all right, here comes the show.

[Caller]

T shirt time.

[Adam Schaefer]

And it's T shirt time.

[Caller]

Ah, shit, Doug. You know it's my favorite time of the week.

[Adam Schaefer]

One winner this week for Apple Podcasts. That is Scotty C. Scotty. Send the name I just read to itunesindpumpmedia.com include your shirt size and your shipping address and we'll get that shirt right out to you. And again, if you want to have a very good chance of winning a T shirt, please leave a review on Apple podcasts or on Facebook and you could be picked.

[Doug]

The vast majority of you are killing your gains. You're not reaching your full potential because you're not doing this. One strength building technique that has been proven dramatically. Improve your strength, build muscle, activate more muscle fibers. What is it? Isometrics. You got to do those.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Doug]

We'll start with the first thing that I just said, which is the data shows that isometrics, in particular, overcoming isometrics, it's a type of isometric, Activates more muscle fibers within a muscle than any other type of strength training technique. Yeah, it's. It's so effective at.

[Caller]

So effective, so powerful.

[Doug]

Yes. So whenever you're, you're exercising or you're strength training, I should say part of the goal is to activate more muscle fibers. This is one of the factors, not the only factor. It's one of the factors that determines, well, how much muscle and strength am I going to build? And the more muscle fibers you can recruit, the more effective you're making the exercise. And more advanced lifters are able to do this more effectively. Somebody who's been working out for 10 years can activate more muscle fibers than somebody who just got Started, it's a technique you can learn and grow with over time. You can build the skill. But if. If you really want to activate the most muscle fibers, like isometrics does this better than lifting heavy, better than lifting light, better than, you know, eccentric contractions, which is when you lower the weight, or concentric, where you raise your weight, just holding steady and driving into something or pulling into something, or squatting into something that doesn't move. That'll activate the most muscle fiber.

[Caller]

Well, you guys know what an evangelist I've been forever since we started the podcast. But, uh, I'm trying to highlight this as well in the series I'm doing right now, because the. The pursuit is like a pr. It's a strength goal. And so to even get my body to respond again at that high level, to. To be able to start really working on the recruitment of it, like, I really have to summon as many muscle fibers as possible. The only way for me to do that in a safe, effective way is through these types of isometrics.

[Doug]

Yes. Yes.

[Caller]

I saw you training that way the other day, getting ready for your lifts. Being really interesting for people to watch as you progress through that. Why do you think it's. It's not as popular?

[Doug]

Great question. I'm so glad you asked that, Adam, because I was just asked this on a recent podcast that.

[Caller]

I can answer that, too.

[Doug]

Yeah, I. I know you'll know the answer. So what's crazy is isometrics were extremely popular with strength athletes way back in the day. It was, like, one of the preferred ways of exercise back when strength athletes or even bodybuilders had to show what they could lift back in the day, like, it was great looking, muscular, but you also had to perform. And the way that these. These bodybuilders at the turn of the century, or the previous century, I should say, the way that they made money was they competed. They would go on a stage and see who could lift the most weight. And so the isometrics, one of their favorite forms of exercise. Isometrics are done in other strength sports quite a bit, but they're not as popular because they don't look cool. Like. Like, if I film myself doing an isometric, what am I doing? I'm not moving. It's not nearly as cool or awesome or fun to look at, so it just doesn't sell as much as me lifting away. It is.

[Caller]

Is that really the theory?

[Doug]

Yeah. That's not just there. It's a fact.

[Caller]

Yeah. I mean, if you're trying to talk about the general population and like, what you see in the gyms, like, if you just look at that as a big pie chart, even just performance in general is going to be this tiny sliver, you know, and, and, and I noticed this because of what I'm passionate about is like, totally not popular. Uh, and, and so now you're taking that on top of that, you get isometrics, which is like, you don't get any glorified videos showing this to, to where it's. It looks exciting. And people don't really understand the value of it to the degree because they're not trying, I guess, like the pursuits towards having like these PRs and strength goals, I don't think that a lot of people are actually pursuing it.

You know, I don't know if I agree with that. I think it's. It has to be like, just a lack of education because the, the things, the stupid things that people do in the fitness space to gain the competitive edge or get a little bit better is that they don't all. I mean, come on, you have men wearing corsets to get their, their waist down an inch. You have, you have dudes lugging around an E stem machine this big, sticking a bunch of things on themselves while they work out in order to get this much more concern, this much more out of training and stuff like that. So why.

[Doug]

No, no, you're right, Adam. You're absolutely right. But the reason why we're here, the reason why there's so little education or so little discussion around isometrics, is because it doesn't look as cool, it's harder to sell. So it fell out of favor and people forgot about them. But if you look at the data, there's a lot of data, there's a lot of studies on isometric contraction training.

[Caller]

When they compare it to others, the curve is faster, right? The gains come on faster on isometrics, Fast and furious.

[Doug]

In a very short period of time now, you'll plateau faster, by the way. You'll plateau, yeah, you'll plateau faster with isometrics. But that initial strength gain is ridiculous. And isometric should not be used alone. That's the thing. If you use them in a routine, it's like you're adding, you're going to add jet fuel to your current routine is what's going to happen.

[Caller]

And to do it in the very beginning makes the most sense because it's so much less damaging. And so you can recover quickly from it. And you're, I mean, you're really just priming your body for more force production.

I mean I guess you're. You're right because I and I remember arguing this when we, when we were building map symmetry. I don't remember which one of you wanted to do like a full phase of isometric. And I'm like, I'm like bro, you can't do that. People will be bored to death. I don't care how, I don't care if it gives you better results than anything else. People won't stick with it. And so I couldn't argue against that.

Because I totally you know just training clients like I see that it gets, yeah it gets you know, mundane.

So that so, so to me that's the, the secret sauce is as a, if you're a trainer listening is because you know the benefits is, is learning to integrate it into your regular training. That way you. Because at the end of the day you have to appease the client too. Like you like at the end of the day like your client has to show back up. You gotta be able to help them. It's like. And I don't care if isometrics are the best because in a perfect world, if you think about it based off the way the, the research points it would make sense that almost all programs when someone's getting back into the gym or getting or getting started for the first time should look very isometric based to begin it's the safest, brings on the most gains rest less likely probably to. To overreach too. I mean you could still overreach doing.

I spent tax your cns but still you're in recovery.

No, no.

[Doug]

So here's, here's the deal. So to be clear, a just isometric routine is applicable for a small segment of the population like injury. When we're looking at risk assessment, the way isometrics should be used for most people is in conjunction or to supplement or to turbocharge their current routine. That's how you use isometrics. And strength athletes who compete in sports where they have to by the way. Actually not even. No, I'm going to take it back. All strength sports including bodybuilding where you just pose, they all use isometrics. Bodybuilders use isometrics. They practice posing. Posing is isometrics. And bodybuilders will tell you posing after your workout. Arnold used to talk about this all the time that posing after his workout brought out he would say more definition, more muscle control. Power lifters have used isometrics forever. They use yielding isometrics quite a bit. Yielding isometrics or like, I lower a weight and I hold it.

[Caller]

They're holding it. Yeah.

[Doug]

Overcoming isometrics would be me pushing something that can't move.

[Caller]

Yeah. Like a wall.

[Doug]

Yeah, yeah. That activates more muscle fibers, yielding a little bit less, but both of them extremely valuable. And all the strength Olympic lifters use isometrics. I mean, of course, the top of all of their Olympic lifts is a very strong isometric where they're holding that position well.

[Caller]

And I love the yielding because for me, it's like whenever you see a weight and it looks, like, intimidating just to be able to hold it and, like, acclimate to it, there's a lot of value in that.

[Doug]

Yes. In fact, starting your workout with isometrics is a great way to work out always. So whatever your workout is doing, if you added a couple sets of isometrics before you did your lifts, the rest of your lifts will be more effective. That's like a very easy, basic, general way to add isometrics in your training.

[Caller]

You know, this supports the a little bit. Right. Even though I know I'm not a fan of it, because I think it could also cause poor recruitment patterns and is not ideal. But, I mean, this is probably why a lot of the bros continued to work out with your training partner where you had the overcoming isometrics, where you give them 315 on the bench press, even though he can, you know, grinding away on it. Because they probably saw results. Yep, they probably saw.

[Doug]

He said, you did that. Right? Didn't you say that? How did you do that?

[Caller]

Oh, yeah, that's how. I mean, that was both squatting and bench pressing. This is early. I'm like 20. I'm 21. 22 maybe at the early 22 at the latest. And I was. I was training with some old school, old school dudes that were much older than me that took me under their wing, and I just was following their routine. And I remember he's like, getting me to squat, and I'm like, at that. At that point, bro, I could, like, squat a plate. That's it. You know what I'm saying? He's like, let's put 315 on him. Like, I've never seen two plates done. He's like, oh, you'll be fine. Don't worry.

[Doug]

I got you.

[Caller]

They get behind me. Same thing for the bench press. Like, at that time, it was.

[Doug]

And he just had you hold the weight.

[Caller]

Yeah, but I mean, yeah, he's supporting me. Right. He just wanted me to feel. That was what he kept telling me. Was this. You just need to feel it. Your body needs to feel the way it'll acclimate.

[Doug]

It doesn't have the science to explain it.

[Caller]

Yeah, yeah, it'll get acclimated. You know what I'm saying? I mean, and it did kind of make sense, theoretically. Like. Okay, like, I guess you're right. Like, if I've never felt anything close to that, if I can get comfortable.

With just the shock of it.

Right. I can just get over that fear. Then when I go down to 225, 225 will feel so much easier.

[Doug]

There's an old piece of exercise equipment that Bruce Lee used to use, and you can still find this. It's literally like a board with two chains and then a bar.

[Caller]

Yeah, yeah. And you would stand on the old McKee gym. Had it.

[Doug]

Did you? Okay. And you would do these isometrics on it. And Bruce Lee was a huge fan of isometrics, and he would talk about how much it contributed to his ability to generate forces.

[Caller]

Lower it down with the links.

[Doug]

You lower the link. Yes, yes. So you can get underneath it. You could pull it, whatever. The other part of isometrics that are great is you could do them frequently because they don't. You don't get sore from isometrics like you do other type of muscle contractions. It doesn't cause as much damage. It still stress on the body, but not as stressful as a, you know, traditional exercise. You can do them often. So if you're looking at your routine and you want to add a little more to get better results, because sometimes that's challenging. Okay, if I add more, am I going to over. Am I going to do more than my body's going to be able to adapt to? What do I do? Start with isometrics. You could do these at home. You could do isometrics at home. Add 15 minutes of it every single day to your routine, and you've added something that's probably, for many people, going to significantly improve their strength and muscle gain and not really compromise the recovery. It's one of those tools that is powerful, yet not as damaging. And that's valuable. It's very valuable when you're trying to program your workout or if you're a trainer or coach, trying to add things to your client's routine without stressing them or stressing their bodies too much.

[Caller]

So from the audience that cares about this, some people won't care about this, but there's gotta be some percentage that care about their calves. This was like. And I Noticed a difference when I'm doing this and when I'm not doing this that happened to be not in one of the, the times of doing this right now. And I can tell. I just, I do isometric calf holds in the shower and that's all I do.

[Doug]

Just take a shower on your toes?

[Caller]

Yes. I swear to God, and I swear to God, when I, when I do that every, when I do that every morning in the shower and that's all I'm doing. Just that alone. I see a significant difference. Just that alone by itself.

Yeah.

You know, nothing else. Just at least doing that. And I mean, again, it's not going to grow world class calves. But if you're somebody who is looking for a little bit more from your calves, it's. You're in the shower already, it's not hard. I also think there's a little bit of stability in there too. It's good for ankle strength and mobility. So there's like other benefits. That's kind of like how I justify it. And I would do that and I noticed a big difference.

[Doug]

The other thing about isometrics, which this is, very rarely will you see this combination with a strength training or exercise technique and a combination of extreme effectiveness, but also mirrored with very low risk of injury. Usually the more effective something is, the risk of injury goes up. The skill required to perform it starts to come up as well. Like some of the most, the best exercises typically require the most skill and they typically come with a high risk of injury because the skill required to do them is. So there's so much skill required. Isometrics require very little skill. You're not moving. It's the safest muscle contraction you can do. Now, can you hurt yourself doing isometric? Of course, but you're far less likely. So this is a form of exercise that you can do when you're injured, when you're rehabbing. So this is the best strength training technique for rehabbing an injury. And it's excellent for people who are deconditioned. This is how I would, many, many times I would do isometrics with my advanced age clients because it was so safe and the strength gains would be so, like I said we said earlier, so fast and so furious.

[Caller]

Yeah, it's awesome. I mean, the only other comparable thing in terms of safety and like having like a lot of return from it is like a sled or like something that's like all concentric, then you can get rid of at any time. It's not anything you need to stabilize. It's not anything that, you know, is. Is going to give you those forces back where you have to slow down. Uh, so. And you can do that with, like, throwing something or, you know, so there's. There's some other ways to. To do, but there's not a lot of options where it's like, you can get that much return for the safety and the risk being low.

This is also. I mean, for that reason, this is great for rehab purposes.

[Doug]

Oh, yeah. 100.

[Caller]

So when you have somebody who is, you know, and you're trying to wonder like, oh, is it too early to really start the rehab? I mean, you start them in the isometric place. This is the safest, smartest place. I mean, just when I went through that injury with my pec, like, that was like, the isometrics were the first things that I was already practicing right away. Even when I was probably too early to start the rehab process, I could at least start creating contraction in there and recruiting there. So you can start to get some sort of development or at least slow down the atrophy part.

[Doug]

That's right. What's also cool about them is that you can do them anywhere. They require very, very little equipment. It's super versatile. You don't need much to do it, which makes it something you can practice frequently. And again, practicing these frequently because they don't cause lots of damage. It's an incredible addition to almost any routine. I mean, I'm going to say very clear, most people, if you start to apply isometrics to your routine, you're going to add a grand total of 10 minutes to your workout. But you're probably going to get a 10% or more improvement in your results, which very few things you could do for 10 minutes will give you that much of an improvement. It's pretty remarkable. And by the way, do them at the beginning of your workout if you really want to do them best. And then here's something for people with home gyms. I had a friend of mine who did this, and I'm thinking about doing this myself. He was super, super into strength training. He was like a student of the game. One of my. So he lived in my old neighborhood. And what he did is he bolted. What are those ring bolts called that you put?

[Caller]

Eye bolts.

[Doug]

He put two eye bolts deep into the concrete. And then he attached. And he attached chains to it. And he'll put the chains on a bar and he could get underneath it with a bench, and he could do overcoming isometric with a bench. He could do a deadlift. On it. He could do a squat on it, and overhead press just by lengthening the chain, getting the bar and pushing, and it wouldn't move.

[Caller]

Have you drilled those into a platform before?

[Doug]

Have you done that? Yeah, yeah. And then, like I said, Bruce Lee used to use one. It looked like that it was like a plank with chains and then like a bar.

[Caller]

And what's funny is too, like, strength athletes know this as well for. To. To use them, too, prior to trying to go for your max lift and to get that kind of recruitment at the highest point, but not to the point of fatigue. You know, you let off and then you go perform, and it's like all of a sudden, you've already summoned all these muscle fibers. They're ready, ready to go.

[Doug]

They're. They're totally primed.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Doug]

Yeah. It's pretty cool, right? Anyway, so I was having a conversation. I was on some. Some other podcasts recently, and the conversation started to revolve around exercise for kids because, well, I mean, we know obesity and poor health and chronic health conditions. It's affecting every age group. Every single age group. But it's probably saddest to see in children because children used to be a category that was untouched by chronic health issues.

[Caller]

Well, it's also sad because the way they got there is through learned behavior. Yeah, it's like they. They didn't. Most of them don't know better yet. You know, I'm saying they. They ate what their parents fed or allowed them. Yeah, that's. That's what makes that so sad and difficult.

[Doug]

It's very, very challenging. I remember when I first got my first certification in 1997, they had just changed the name of adult onset diabetes to. To type 2 diabetes. It used to be called adult onset diabetes because adults got it, and it was. You develop diabetes through an unhealthy lifestyle. They changed it to type 2 diabetes because they started seeing kids get it, and now you still see this. You see this even. Even more. So anyway, conversation was out. Children was around children, and the question was, like, how do you train kids? Like, how should kids exercise? How should I? And what I said to them. And I think this is important to communicate to our audience because we have a lot of listeners who have children. The most important thing to consider when it comes to exercise for your kids is not the programming, it's not the exercise itself, it's not even the technique. These are all important. I'm not saying those are important, but they're not the most important. The most important thing to consider Is the relationship your child builds with exercise.

[Caller]

Are they enjoying it?

[Doug]

Yes. Because what you don't want to do. And I've seen this already, I've seen this in the fitness space with fitness fanatics and their kids. They create such a poor relationship with. With exercising their kids. We've all seen this with sports. Like the dad that forces their kid to play soccer or whatever and just makes them hate it so much they never want to do it again. The most important thing with your kids is that they enjoy it. So when you're doing exercise with your kids and they don't want to do what you're telling them to do, that's okay, make it fun. Because what you want is for them to have. You want them to have this relationship to where when they grow up, they want to continue doing it versus they do the perfect routine, but they hate it and you're forcing them to do it. Then they become a teenager, they rebel, and that's it. They don't want to do anything.

[Caller]

No. That's why I think some of the best advice is purely play.

[Doug]

Yes.

[Caller]

I mean, I think that, you know, my son's not a big athletic person. He's not into sports whatsoever. He's showed little interest in me lifting here and there, but not really. But he's active. We wrestle, we run, we play, we do a lot of other things. And he's physical and he eats whole foods and he doesn't need to strength train yet. And I don't even need to think about pushing it on him or talking about it to him. It's like there'll come a time as he sees his mom and his dad do it very consistently inside our house. And so he gets to see it and be around it. But, you know, he eats the foods we eat and he sees what we do on a regular basis that I don't even worry about this. Like, I mean, I don't, I don't even think. It's not even a thought of like, oh, when do I introduce this to him? Or what I. It's like, no, at this point, he's an active. But I can understand why this has become such a big topic because I think a lot of that has to do with the processed foods that we're allowing our kids to eat and the iPads.

It's the environment.

If you allow these kids to sit on iPads for four hours and they're eating Cheetos, then, yeah, even at four, five, six years old, you're going to start to see them put on Excessive weight. But if they're eating whole foods and they're active, they're playing, I don't know, a five year old that isn't attached to an iPad that isn't running around the house and climbing and jumping on things and doing, doing stuff. Even my son, who's not an athlete, he's not into sports, he's not into play like that, but he's definitely jumping off the couch into the bean bag. He's chasing me up and down the stairs like they're active. And so, you know, the way I look at it is like, as long as we keep the nutrition good choices around there, we don't ever allow him to, you know, sit on an iPad for extended period of time. Like they're, they'll stay very healthy for a very long time. And then I figure at one point he'll probably get into junior high or high school and maybe then he'll be interested in sports. And even if he's not, maybe then he might get interested in strength training and he'll come to me and he'll have seen his mom and dad creating these behaviors for so long that it'll be a very natural progression. Doesn't have to be this like forced relationship with him.

[Doug]

You talk about processed food. If you go through your grocery store and you look at foods that are marketed and made for kids, that is 95% processed food.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Doug]

Like they're all, and they're all extremely bright colored food dyes and yes, it does. And I look, I'm a parent. Okay, I get it. It's a lot of work. Then the biggest struggle that you challenge with when you, your challenge with you feed your kid is just like, they're not gonna eat it. Are they gonna eat it? They're not gonna eat it, you know, type of deal. So it's easy to give them something that they like and the elite. So I get that it's a challenge in the food industry. It goes in that direction. Okay, can we make foods that people will buy? And then people buy things that are easy for their kids to eat or that they like. But here's why it's even worse for kids than it is for adults. Forget the fact that they're little and that, you know, it's terrible to see chronic health issues with children. Their brains are developing and they're hyperplastic much more than as an adult. Like our brains are still plastic, but there's plasticity in a child's brain that at a certain age you don't have anymore. Like if a kid learns four languages before a certain age, they'll have no accent. All of them, they'll speak all fluently. I can learn four languages and every single one's gonna have an English accent because I speak English. And that's it. My brain isn't as plastic. So what happens when a kid is exposed to frequently hyper palatable engineered foods is their brain molds itself to these foods. It actually molds and shapes itself to this food to the point where there are going to be permanent changes when they're an adult now, they can change their eating habits and all that stuff, but they'll have a pull towards hyper palatability that they wouldn't have had had they not been exposed. That will probably stay with them forever. It's like giving a kid drugs at a young age versus an adult using drugs or whatever. Both are bad, but for a child it's totally different.

[Caller]

The key to this, and I can't stress this enough to people that are listening that don't have kids yet or you're about to have a kid, the key is what you introduce and what is in your home initially. It's once you let the cat out of the bag and how early you do that and how often you do that is what's going to set you up for success or failure. If you do a really good job of when that time comes. When that kid is born at Whole Foods is all we have in the house and all we eat. They won't know better. They won't know anything but that. And eventually they will get introduced and they will have friends. But what's cool is that if you've built that relationship with food for three, four, five years of consistently eating whole foods, they will have a good relationship with that stuff. And it's, it's, it's so cool to watch that unfold. Now that my son is going to be six years old this year and he's got friends and he's had fruit snacks now and he's had candy now and he's, he's had it all. My son's tried everything but the relationship he has with it is. It's a trip. Like it's not he. And he knows it's so unique. He knows it's a big deal if he gets to even try it or have it because it's just not normally in our house. So when his friend comes over and his friends got fruit snacks and things like that, and I allow him to have it, sure he loves it, but we don't go buy it. We don't get to the grocery store. But I also don't deprive him and say, no, you can't have that. Watch your friend eat his fruit snacks. And you can't. Of course not. But. But because we laid that foundation, it's a real easy thing to manage.

[Doug]

That's why the relationship part's so important, because at some point, they're going to navigate the world on their own. So, you know, back to exercise. You want your kids to have this great memory and great experience with exercise so that they don't rebel against it or think of it as some negative thing as they get older. So that's the most important thing.

[Caller]

And you, you know, you have the ability to really create that environment that's inviting like that. And, and, and, you know, like, you're talking about, just play, like wrestling, jumping, running, you know, anything outside experiencing hikes, doing like, whatever it is that's active and fun and engaging and creates movement. There's ways to construct that even if you're limited on space.

[Doug]

So, so, you know, I, I was looking up one of our partners. Juve. Right. They do red light therapy. Do you know how soon people start to see changes in their skin after using? Immediately, it's like two or three sessions.

[Caller]

I was gonna say. I know. I swear I noticed right after the.

[Doug]

First two or three sessions, people will notice the collagen. The, the way it stimulates collagen production is so remarkable. It's actually quite profound. It literally turbocharges collagen production in your skin. And people will notice within two or three sessions. Definitely by 10 sessions. By 10 sessions, people are like, oh, I noticed a big difference.

[Caller]

I mean, I think that's what. I don't think it would have gained the, the traction in the legs had it not produced results that quick.

[Doug]

Yeah.

[Caller]

Because, you know, if it took like.

[Doug]

A month or two.

[Caller]

Yeah. You know, I mean, that's what, that's one of the hardest reasons to sell fitness and exercise for people. Because it takes time.

Yeah.

You know, if, if in two sessions I could show people dramatic change in their physique, everybody would do it. You know what I'm saying?

Constantly in the air. It's coming. It's.

But yeah, I remember when we got, we first got introduced to the Juvlite and I started using it and it's like, it, it's. It's almost like you have this, your skin has this glow and it. I, I noticed it. Right? I noticed it. Right. I think I noticed it. Right at the first session. I'm pretty sure it was the first session, but I definitely can tell when I'm not using it. And I go, right. Using it. You just have this kind of light glow to your skin.

We find, like, a manly way to describe that. I. I'm at a loss. Yeah, I know you're talking about. And, you know, I'm like, oh, it's like a baby's butt.

Well, maybe that's. Maybe. Maybe just my complexion. Glow. Flows. I don't know what yours would do. Yours is fades. What does yours do? Faces.

Yeah, I don't know any terms for that.

[Doug]

I read a study the other day that I would love to. So let's see if you guys can poke holes. The study itself isn't a problem. I'll pull it up. It's that.

[Caller]

Are we gonna talk about how fat you are today or. No?

[Doug]

No. What? Okay, we'll get there.

[Caller]

Jesus Christ.

[Doug]

I don't know how you're so good with numbers, dude. It's ridiculous how good you are with numbers. Okay, so this study, and I was kind of a. Like, I did a post about it, and I was a dick, and I took it down because I'm like, I shouldn't be. Like, I shouldn't. I shouldn't talk like that. But I read this study. I read the post, and it's by Brad Schoenfeld, which I love. He's got great research. This dude's got some of the best research. Love his stuff. Absolutely love his stuff. But sometimes these studies, many times they give us good information, but they're. Then a trainer or a coach or a fitness influencer will try and take it and apply it, and they start to miss the force for the tree. So I'll read you what he wrote, right? So they did a study comparing cluster sets to traditional sets for muscle hypertrophy. So you guys know what a cluster set is, right? That's where you do so many reps. You wait 10 seconds, do more reps.

[Caller]

I really. I like them.

[Doug]

Okay, so do I. So here's what it says. Our new study showed similar increases in muscle thickness between cluster sets and traditional sets. Okay. In other words, equal. Now, here's a part where I'm like, okay. When total volume and intensity of effort were equated between conditions. Here's the deal. I don't know anybody who has ever done a cluster set and not dramatically increased the intensity. It never comes along with the same intensity as a traditional set. It's always a intensity increaser.

[Caller]

Increaser.

[Doug]

This is why people will swear by cluster sets. This, it works so great.

[Caller]

Ramps it up.

[Doug]

So in a study, they controlled that. But in the real world, nobody controls that. Nobody would control that perceived effort. So I think they're just like, how?

[Caller]

So you'd have. You'd have to make the cluster set so light that it doesn't.

[Doug]

Exactly.

[Caller]

It doesn't.

[Doug]

I mean, I don't know how they.

[Caller]

Do which that defeat. One of the things that makes the cluster set so awesome intensity is you can grab a weight that you can't complete, say 12 reps with and you do these little sets of four, basically, and set it back down. And it allows you in a. In a short period of time to do 20 reps of something you can never do 20 straight reps. That's right. So of course the intensity is going to increase. And so if you had to match the intensity as the same as a straight set, then you, you would defeat the purpose of.

[Doug]

Why super intense or something.

[Caller]

Well, you would have to. Yeah, you'd have to make the straight set super intense to failure or beyond. Or you would have to reduce the intensity in the cluster set so much that it almost defeats the purpose of doing the cluster set.

[Doug]

Yeah. And it also doesn't take into account. So here's the real world. Here's what happens in the real world when someone uses a.

[Caller]

Studies go bad, bro.

[Doug]

Well, I like the study, but. But it doesn't apply to like, in the real world. This is not how they're used.

[Caller]

So did you see like some trainer clowning on it or.

[Doug]

No, no, no, no. He just did this post and people are commenting underneath like, oh, all these variations don't mean anything. Just do traditional sets. And I'm like, you guys missed it said. In the real world, when cluster sets are applied, there's usually. Almost always two factors that you see. One, intensity has increased. Nobody does a cluster set and has the same intensity as before. It's always a way to increase intensity. So they're controlling intensity, making me, you know, equal or equating them. That doesn't happen in the real world. Number two, a cluster set is almost always employed as a, as a novel way of training. It's almost never the way I always train. This is almost always something I just added.

[Caller]

This is all. This is also why. Because what research says if all sets volume, intensity is all equated for that, there is no difference in body part splits versus full body workouts. But why do we advocate for flyers? Because nobody hits a perfect week forever for a Year just never happens. You end up missing days, you end up skipping muscle groups and you're, you're behind. And now you're playing catch up and.

[Doug]

You'Re 15 sets in one workout. Don't look like the five sets you do on Monday, Wednesday, Friday, full body workout.

[Caller]

It's because we. You factor in human behavior, which is a human. Huge piece to the puzzle.

[Doug]

It's the biggest piece.

[Caller]

So that's, that's. I mean, I always get fired up when we. When people hang on to studies like this and they try and use that to support. I mean, to me, it's always an example of somebody who's a. A new young trainer who's just all excited to learn, buried in books and.

They'Re not out there doing it.

[Doug]

Yes, yes, yes.

[Caller]

Speaking of that. No, speaking of that. I want to shout out. We haven't shouted out somebody in a long time. So this will call this kind of a shout out. Maybe our editing team can put this clip up. I shared it with you guys. I don't know if you watched or not. Came across a trainer. I'm familiar with him before. I've seen him before, and I'm so glad he popped to my feet again because I like his stuff. I invited him on the show. He'll be coming on probably soon. Ben Bruno. Oh, yeah. He did a really good post of talking about, like social media and trainers.

[Doug]

You could tell it just for, you know, 10 seconds in, I'm like, oh, he's trained a lot of people.

[Caller]

Yeah, yeah. I'll give it to the editing team so they can play the clip because I'll probably tear it up if I try and repeat exactly how he said it.

[Doug]

But no, very well said.

[Caller]

Very, very well. Very well said. About what? We're good page in the. To summarize it, it's just that we've got into this trap of clickbait and that's why this came up right now. So what you're talking about is like, to be controversial and to counter stuff like that is what goes more viral. And if I do something that's controversial, say controversial statement, and then you come to my page and then they're all pictures of me looking sexy. Like I quickly can grow to be this massive trainer online. And so it adds. It gives credibility to these people that really don't belong a lot of followers.

[Doug]

So you must know what they're talking about.

[Caller]

Exactly. Oh, he looks fit. He must. He's dropping this, you know, counter. Counter this. And. And then he must. But meanwhile, the really, really good trainers are busy out applying science that we've known for a really long time that hasn't evolved and changed and yeah, getting experience and helping people. Not very good at hacking algorithms and getting clickbait and stuff like that. And so I think it's such a, such a true statement. I mean, I bet there's, I bet there is more good trainers that people don't know about. Of course, then, then good trainers that, you know, I know.

So we're always looking for them.

Yeah.

Yeah. Give them a spotlight for a bit.

[Doug]

Yeah. I'm glad you brought them up.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Doug]

Are you want to talk about how fat I am now?

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Doug]

You know what's crazy? What's crazy is your, your ability to predict just numbers in general are so, it's so great. So you, you, you guessed my body fat at a certain percentage, so I brought calipers from like, there's no way that's my body fat percent. And you were like, within point two two.

[Caller]

Yeah, because I didn't just guess a number. Round number. I was like, you're 7.8 to 8.5.

[Doug]

Yeah, I thought for sure I was 10. I didn't think because I'm heavy right now. So I'm like, there's no way I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm that lean. But you, you were right. She tested or he tested me, Justin did. And it was like, what was it? 7.5. So it was right there.

[Caller]

Yeah. I mean, the thing that I was. Because I know you thought you're like, oh, I'm not, you know, I'm thick right now or I'm not as I've been leaner. You've probably felt leaner, but you have so muscle and that, that plays another role. And like, so I, I know when you got that much muscle and I also, I've seen your physique enough times and known when you're at 9% and 10% that I'm like, I bet he's leaner than what he thinks just based off that alone. And. Yeah, sure. I mean, and you're at such a cool place too. Like, I'm. When's the last time you tracked and seen your calories? You have any idea?

It's like, when s cold, he's like 8.5.

[Doug]

I eat a lot. I eat a lot. I know I don't eat garbage, but I do eat well.

[Caller]

That's why you're so ripped and shredded is because you're eating a lot and you're eating good Foods. There's a good example.

[Doug]

And my wife is really good about like cooking and preparing my meals for me and all that. And you know, shout out to my wife. She, you know, it really makes a big difference. Eating out definitely would make it more challenge, but I'm not trying. That's the crazy thing. I'm not really trying. So my metabolism.

[Caller]

Yeah, for sure. You.

Well, you have like an unbelievable discipline around your. But I mean, you've also talked about it like you're. Your gut has forced you for sure into that place. You know.

[Doug]

You know, what happened is that by.

[Caller]

The way, it happens to be real bad. And you haven't even mentioned your gut in a long time.

[Doug]

It's. It's. You know what I got? I.

[Caller]

You have moments where I see you testing it with stuff that I.

[Doug]

Stupid. Yeah. Because I push it. The difference between my good gut health and bad gut health for me is about 8 pounds of lean body mass. That's how big of a difference it makes. It's like eight pounds. And right now my gut health is good. So. And I'm not going to mess with it. I'm not going to push it because there was a moment there where it got really good. Remember I got cocky and I was like, I was eating cheeseburger.

[Caller]

Oh, yeah. Yeah.

[Doug]

Oh, I could eat dairy again here. And then birth it threw it way off. I had to back way out.

[Caller]

Now when that happens, how. How long to it resets and kind of goes back like how it took.

[Doug]

Me probably two or three weeks.

[Caller]

And are you. What's kind of. Do you have like a protocol of all the things you. I know you always take the Z boy or not, but take a seed and stuff like that. But is there anything that when that happens, do you like.

[Doug]

I just have to really, really stay away from food. Foods that I know can cause intolerances. And if it gets really bad, I even have to be careful with starch. So potatoes and even rice I have to be careful with.

[Caller]

I was gonna ask you, like, Vicki actually mentioned this to me before. I told you guys, I've always had a problem grinding my teeth.

[Doug]

Yeah.

[Caller]

And it's just like this weird thing that it's like it's. It feels like it's out of my control. She's like, yeah, she had heard that there's a lot of associations with parasites, people that grind their teeth. And I was like, really? I got to get on top of that.

[Doug]

You can buy. I'm not going to say they'll cite because I don't know how we can. If this. We get in trouble for this, but you can buy an ivermectin fenbendazole combo, and you can buy it online. And that horse grade and that. No, it's in capsule form.

[Caller]

He needs horse grade.

[Doug]

Doug knows because him and I bought some I can buy. And it'll kill any parasite. By the way, there are some people that recommend. I'm not saying this. This is not me. It's not mind pump. But some people who recommend that you should do some kind of a parasite cleanse once a year.

[Caller]

Well, I mean, if it's based off of you. They say if you eat sushi. How many times? It's almost guaranteed if you eat sushi.

[Doug]

Often, you probably have.

[Caller]

It's like 80 of the population walk around with, like, parasites at one point.

[Doug]

I don't know what. The data is crazy. I don't know what that number is. But if you eat raw vegetables ever, which we eat salads and stuff like that.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Doug]

If you sexual contact, you can definitely pass parasites. So if your spouse has a parasite, you have a parasite. And in the sushi. And so if you've never done a parasite treatment and you're, you know, 30 years old, 40 years old, whatever the odds are, you might collect it. Yeah, dude. And then when you treat a parasite, here's what's crazy. You treat it, you'll take something, it'll kill the parasite. Then you have to wait, like, two weeks and then do it again because the eggs are there. Oh, so you'll kill off the parasite, and then two weeks later, the eggs will hatch and you got to do it again.

[Caller]

Really? Yeah.

I'm just so mad.

[Doug]

You're making a face like. That's so gross.

[Caller]

It is.

It is gross.

So gross, bro. I mean, I probably should, too, just to see, you know.

[Doug]

We know they make you grouchy.

[Caller]

We know what your weekends consist of.

[Doug]

Would you pull it up there, Doug?

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Adam Schaefer]

An estimated 60 million people in the US are chronically infected with parasites.

[Caller]

Well, that's chronically.

[Doug]

That's not. That's just chronic.

[Adam Schaefer]

That's chronically.

[Caller]

That's a lot of people, though.

[Doug]

Yeah, dude. So out of 350, right?

[Adam Schaefer]

So what is that, like 320?

[Doug]

So what percentage is that? Do the math, Adam.

[Adam Schaefer]

I mean, it's like 11 fifth.

[Doug]

Okay. Yeah. Oh, wow. That's pretty decent percentage.

[Caller]

Yeah, one out of five. I mean, five of us in here right now, so one of us definitely has it.

One of you?

[Doug]

Yeah. You're full of parasites.

[Caller]

I believe it, dude.

[Doug]

But I'll show you. I'll show you where you can buy it. I won't, I won't recommend it here because you're not supposed to. Whatever. But yeah, those are the common ones there, Doug.

[Caller]

Oh, boy.

[Adam Schaefer]

I mean, there's hook worm, there's. I can't even tell you what these are.

[Doug]

They have funny names.

[Caller]

Was that the one that lowers your IQ in the South?

Names?

[Doug]

Oh, Trichinomis vaginalis.

[Caller]

Justin.

I definitely have that one. I think I ate that one. Yeah.

[Doug]

That's disgusting. Did that tell you guys? I didn't tell you. My, My daughter, my two year old daughter, she. She comes up to me. She walks up to me with her finger like this and she's just like from across the room, papa, papa, papa. And I'm like, what? She goes, booger. I'm like, oh, come on, come on. Had to like clean her finger.

[Caller]

Well, divorce, she said like twice now. So we, this is, this is something we have to like, untrained. You know, when you train your kid to do something and then like, it eventually like starts to backfire. So we trained Max, like, to, to when to blow his nose. Like, blow hard, right? Oh, so we, you would, we would teach him to do it. So now anytime he gets a runny nose, he just starts blowing. He has no tissue, no nothing. And like you're like sprinting across the room. It's Max. Hold on.

Hanging off. Yes, but it's.

And it's our fault because we teach him blow, blow if you got blow. And then we keep telling that. So now it's like as soon as he feels it, he just starts doing it.

[Doug]

What's, what's the worst for you guys? Because you do the farm. As a parent, you have to deal with poop, boogers and throw up and pee, right? Those are the four. What's the grossest out of all?

[Caller]

That's a good question.

[Doug]

Every parent's different. Yeah. You know, like, like, like my wife, if she gets poop anywhere, it's like, oh, poop doesn't bother me. You know what's funny is I, I boogers and mucus. You get me out of the room. Yeah, I can't handle that.

[Caller]

I feel like since having my son, a lot of that has kind of changed. Right? Like, I, I do remember, like the boogers thing being really tough for me. But I definitely know as a dad now, I'm like. So normally just go, I'm grabbing it with my.

[Doug]

Oh, no, I can't do that.

[Caller]

My Bare hands. I can't do that. I wouldn't been able to do that, say, five years ago, but I definitely have gotten that point with my son now where I'm like, that's. It's so natural.

[Doug]

You play football. You guys would blow snot rockets.

[Caller]

Oh, I do all the time.

Yeah.

I mean, I have some gross stories I'm not even bring up. Like, yeah, there's. I. I don't know. For me, like, I. There was one big blowout, though. I could definitely remember. Like, Everett had that when he was in his crib, and it was just like. It was over the walls. It was like, all, like. And I was just. I just walking into it, and you're just hitting the face with the smell. It was like, whoa. And I was by myself because at that time, there was a. There was a good period where my wife was working nights as a nurse, and so I was like, daddy daycare every day.

Yeah. I imagine you and Doug probably had a different. A little bit different transition.

So.

Sal and I are oldest. Right. So I got. I'm sure you did, too. Right. You probably got a little bit of practice on your younger siblings with being around them, like, so I would. Like, changing diapers and all that stuff was not foreign to me. But when you're, like, the. When you're your youngest son and boy and you guys don't have anybody, do you guys. Was it all brand new to you? Yeah.

Yeah, it was all brand new.

Do you remember, like, were you nerv. Like some dad, really nervous to, like, even hold a baby. Really nervous to change a diaper.

I'll take that back, because. So I used to work at camps a lot, and I was like, a camp counselor, and I did, like, day camps and things like that through these churches. And, you know, like, you. I was working with younger kids until I was only, like, you know, 10, 12 years old or something like that. And so I sometimes, like, one of the. One of the girls, like, can you come help me? And I need, you know, another set of hands to hold. And I'm like, oh, God, like, holding this, like, dirty diaper. And so I did have, like, some exposure to it, but not, like, I didn't have, like, a younger sibling or anything. So. Yeah, I was pretty much just, like, horribly trying to figure it out when you're.

I had a buddy that was, like, terrified of it, like. Yeah. Because he was. He's the youngest. All boys, especially if you're a guy, because. Yeah, it's. It's pretty calming.

[Doug]

Yeah, it Was. You're like, I know. You're the same way, Adam. It's. It was a superpower for me with clients who had babies, because here I am, young man trainer.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Doug]

And they'd have, you know, postpartum, sometimes client would bring their baby in, and I was so comfortable with their baby. Their baby would, you know, pee on me. I wouldn't trip out over it. And, you know, I'm a guy, so they don't expect me to be, like, super chill. So it was always like, oh, my God, he's the greatest, or whatever. I love that.

[Caller]

It's funny.

Some of my favorite memories, though, because, like, my niece, when I went to the hospital to meet and she was just born and my brother handed her to me, I'm like, oh, you know, sweetie. And then she just, like, pukes all over me. And I'll forever remember that, you know.

[Doug]

Tell her that infant puke is nothing, though. Infant puke is just.

[Caller]

But it almost went in my mouth.

It was.

Bad.

I'm pretty sure I won over Katrina. That was probably. So I was.

[Doug]

I've talked about how played with babies and kids.

[Caller]

No, no, her. How her brother is like. I swear they didn't like me forever. Right. And I think when we had Max, and then her family getting to see me with Max, I think changed a lot for their family because I always took race. Yeah. And he was a preemie. Right. So he was super tiny. And even at that age, I was not. I mean, I'd tuck them in my forearm and be doing dishes and be doing stuff like, Katrina's resting and her family be all looking at me all crazy like, dude, he's so comfortable with the baby. And. Well, when we were young, we had my sister. My two siblings were 10, 12 years below us, and my mom had us watching the kids at a pretty young age. So I got used to 5. When I look back now, you know what I'm saying? Boy, that was pretty young. Pretty young to be responsible for any.

Like, making them lunches.

Oh, dude. Like, I think back to some of the stuff, I'm like, wait a second. That was doing the math. You know what I'm saying? When you're in it, you don't think about it. It wasn't until, like, therapy later, my therapist would tell me, like, you do know that's not normal, right? You know, you're only like 12 years old. You're watching an infant.

[Doug]

You know, my 4 year old, he can. He'll cook his own scrambled egg. We'll watch him like, we'll watch him.

[Caller]

I saw. I saw the video yesterday.

[Doug]

Yeah. So he'll turn on the stove.

[Caller]

So great.

[Doug]

Crack the egg.

[Caller]

I seen him use the knife. Everything you guys got him doing all kinds.

[Doug]

Yeah. So she was. So. So, yeah. Jessica will give him a butter knife to slice, like, zucchini. And she. He'll do everything on his own. He'll olive oil it, salt it, do the whole thing all on his own, which is pretty cool. When I was a kid, I wasn't allowed to touch any of that stuff, so I'm assuming.

[Caller]

So is Jessica better with that than you? Because I know, like, Katrina would freak out if I let him do some stuff like that. You know, I let him do stuff, and she's just like, what?

[Doug]

No, I love it. I absolutely love it.

[Caller]

I let him plug in stuff in the plugs or anything. Like, what are you doing? I'm like, yeah, he's fine. I teach him, though. You know, tell him, like, listen, you. Your finger touches that, it'll show. It'll shock you. Trust me, you don't want to do that. And so. But you're crazy. I trust. I trust him to do all kinds of stuff. And that's quite the power saw.

Don't put the fork in there.

[Doug]

Yeah. I want to ask you, Justin, about Scamander podcast.

[Caller]

Thank you for bringing that up.

[Doug]

Yeah, you got it, bro. It's the notes here forever. What is Scamanda itching to talk about it?

[Caller]

So, well, so I. It. So this was a conversation my. My youngest actually brought to me from school, and they were kind of talking, and I guess. Well, so I had just read this article that there's this, like, Netflix series coming out, totally describing this lady, Amanda, who had scammed everybody that she had cancer. And this is totally, like, a goob expose. Like, you'd be all over this. But she was here. She's literally here in San Jose. And it was, like, doing this at a local church and was getting all these donations because she was claiming that she was going through treatments and all this kind of stuff. Dude. I was like, you want to talk about what's evil? That's evil. Oh, that's way super evil, dude. And so I'm like, there's this whole podcast, like, dedicated to it. And apparently Everett's one of his buddies. Like, that was his. She, like, worked at a school, and that was, like. He went to that school, knew her intimately.

There's a Netflix series about it, isn't it?

Yeah, it's coming out.

Yeah. I saw the preview for it. It's not out, though.

[Doug]

So lied about having cancer so she could collect donations so she could get money. That's sociopathic, dude.

[Caller]

It's so wrong.

[Doug]

That's so messed up. Who have cancer, you know what I mean?

[Caller]

I feel like, though, people that do stuff, karma bites. That bites you in the ass, bro. There's not a lot of people get away with that stuff. You get away with it temporarily, but that comes around, bro.

[Doug]

Well, I mean, whether you believe that or not, how. How spiritually, you know, the spiritual illness. She must have to be okay doing that.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Doug]

You know, because you're not just robbing people, which is already. You're already in a bad place, but you're also. You're asking for people through empathy and compassion.

[Caller]

That's what I mean by sociopath or psychopath. So it's like the one that doesn't feel any morality.

That's sociopath.

Sociopath, yeah.

[Doug]

Yeah.

[Caller]

That's what I mean by that, too, is like, maybe I. And I truly believe this. Like. Oh, I think it always happens. I don't think it's a maybe it always happens. Whether something really bad happens back to her that the public receive, or she's just internally tortured for the rest of your life. Like, you'll. You'll be tortured for that. And whether something bad happens to you or you now set the table for the rest of your life, no one trusts you. You can't. Or internally. So it's like, it's. No matter what, you're not getting away from that. You do something like that bad. Oh, yeah, There it is right there.

[Doug]

Oh. What? I might know her.

[Caller]

I know. That's why I brought her up, because I was tripping out that she was local. Like, almost like. Like Los Gatos area. Yeah. She went to a church I've been to before, and, like, she was like. They brought her up on stage, and she was asking for donations, and I'm like, wow. The level and extent this lady went through with this scam is. It's unreal.

[Doug]

Oh, my God. Yeah, she looks familiar. That's weird.

[Caller]

I know.

[Doug]

No, I don't know her. Okay, there she is right there.

[Caller]

I so weren't they. Weren't they, like. Weren't they, like, interviewing her afterwards, too, and, like, trying to get her to tell, and she still was, like, kind of lying. Like, they. They did a whole, like, 60 seconds or whatever or her. And they were trying to get her to tell the truth, and she was still like.

Yeah, you don't have any moral compass I mean, I guess that's the fallback, right? You just continue to lie.

[Doug]

Oh, that's.

[Caller]

When is it out? It's coming out soon, I think on Netflix.

[Doug]

Really sad. Yeah.

[Caller]

Let us see.

[Doug]

You know, I'm going to take a left here. I am seeing more and more articles on the peptide for skin called ghk. Cuz you're seeing this in really high end skincare products that are very hard to find. Maybe Doug, you could type in GHKCU studies for skin. Yeah, really remarkable stuff.

[Caller]

That's what's in the entera, right?

[Doug]

That's what's in Luminos by Entera. But there is 3% GHKCU. You don't find 3%.

[Caller]

That's high.

[Doug]

Yeah, it's very high. The highest you'll find anywhere is 0.51. If you're lucky, they're 3%.

[Caller]

I love that stuff.

[Doug]

Yeah, yeah, it's. It's.

[Caller]

So does Katrina.

[Doug]

Yeah. Doug, read that real quick.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Adam Schaefer]

Studies on GHKCU for skin have shown promising results indicating its potential to significantly improve the appearance of aging skin by reducing the appearance of fine lines and wrinkles, increasing skin density and thickness, and promoting collagen production through its antioxidant and anti inflammatory properties.

[Doug]

Yeah.

[Caller]

So you think there's like uber rich people that just bathe in it too? I would if I could afford a whole bathtub of that stuff.

[Doug]

Oh my God.

[Caller]

Right?

[Doug]

Million dollars.

[Caller]

I mean, maybe that's LeBron's secret.

I mean, I don't. There's got to be somebody wealthy enough that can bathe in it.

Yeah.

You can't tell me someone hasn't tried to do.

[Doug]

You're probably right. Yeah, you're probably right.

[Caller]

I hope it's that it's not, you know, the.

[Doug]

So GHKCU is so powerful. Okay. That if you get a sunburn. So I know somebody who did this. They got a sunburn. They applied this on the sunburn.

[Caller]

We should have Justin test this.

[Doug]

You would be perfect.

[Caller]

Yeah. Come summer, tell them their commercial. Come summertime, you have to wear sunscreen. We're going to burn Justin.

Justin really had that horrible farmer tan on my neck, dude. It's like my face and my neck.

Such a funny experiment. So he's like. His face is all red with the sunglasses.

[Doug]

No, do a proper test. It's a NASCAR tank to do a proper test.

[Caller]

Burn the out of him.

[Doug]

No, that's what we'll do. Justin will go out in the sun, get a sunburn on his face. We'll only apply half of his face. So we can see the difference between half of your face.

[Caller]

We got to do a cool design or something.

[Doug]

So I know someone who did this. They got sunburned and it was not a good sunburn. It was a pretty bad sunburn. And they put it on and the next day, the next day the sunburn was gone. Wow. Like the next day it was gone.

[Caller]

Okay, I'm definitely doing.

[Doug]

And then who was it that. We know that we were on virtual call with that talked about this.

[Caller]

Oh, who was that?

[Doug]

He was one of the representatives from, from Entera.

[Caller]

It was, I remember talking about that. It was Nick, wasn't it? Nick.

[Doug]

I think it was.

[Caller]

It was Nick because he's got skin like Justin. He's super pale like Justin.

[Adam Schaefer]

Same last name too.

[Doug]

Basically.

[Caller]

He's a Scottish guy.

[Doug]

Is he?

[Adam Schaefer]

Andrews, Andrew.

[Caller]

A couple albino buddies, huh? Yeah.

[Doug]

Paleo Valley makes the best meat sticks anywhere. Grass fed, delicious, not dry. They're great. Go check them out. It's a great gut food, health friendly, clean protein snack on the go. Go to paleovalley.com mindpump on that link. You'll get 15% off. All right, back to the show. This segment of the podcast is brought to you by trainerwebinar.com Adam and I get on every other month and teach trainers and coaches how to be more effective and successful. And it's free.

[Adam Schaefer]

Trainerwebinar.com Our first caller is Ron from Rhode Island.

[Doug]

Ron, what's up, man? Shout out to you, Ron, how can we help you?

[Caller]

How you doing, Sal? Thanks for taking my call. I appreciate it. I work out from home at my home gym, so I really don't have anybody to kind of talk to and boss my ideas of. So I really appreciate it.

[Doug]

Yeah, you got it.

[Caller]

So, yeah, basically just a little history real quick. I'm, I'm 54, 105, 665 pounds. I've been working out on and off, God, since my, my, my mid-20s after I got out of service. Really kind of got back into it the last six years, so. And they've been very consistent the past year and a half. It's just I, I do like, I work out five days a week, three, three days with waste, two days, the abs a little bit for a routine there. It just seems like it'll take a little too long. But it's about, I'm about two hours in each day which when I got nothing else to do, so it doesn't really bother me. But it's just, you Know, at times it kind of gets, you know, tough to get motivated when, you know you've got two hours of work ahead of you. And at times I just feel like I'm spinning my wheels here. I, I had a, a couple DEXA scans, came in about 19 body fat, but in, in a nine month period, I gained about five pounds of muscle, which is about half a pound per month, which I don't know if that's good or bad for a guy my age or not. Had a couple testosterone tests. I came in at 687 and with the total and free at 91. I did one previous about two years prior, and I actually increased my Testosterone by like 34 points. I don't know if that means anything or not, but any advice you have would be appreciated.

[Doug]

Yeah, yeah. You know, on the surface, if somebody said I strength train two hours, five days a week, is that too much? Generally speaking, I would say yes. Here's the problem with that. On an, on a, on an individual basis, I mean, it could really vary. You've been strength training for a long time, so what I would typically ask you is why are you asking this question now? You kind of told me a little bit and you questioned, you said you're finding it hard to get motivated and you're sometimes feeling like you're spinning your wheels. So I think a better question to ask would be would I get the same results if I worked out less or would I get better results if I worked out less? Probably you, you probably, if you cut it down to an hour, I don't think you'd see any, any slowdown in progress. I mean, five pounds of muscle in a year is, is, is pretty damn good. You're doing pretty well. So if you cut it down to an hour, I don't think you would see a reduction in progress. You might actually see yourself progressing more. But really the only way to know that is to test it out and see for yourself.

[Caller]

Yeah, I, I would love to put you on Maps Anabolic, the two days that you were kind of doing abs and form, you could still do that as your trigger days. So in Maps Anabolic, we've got the three days a week plus two days are trigger sessions. And so you could follow that protocol, still do your kind of going to the gym or going in your, your garage, working out five days a week, but it's a little more organized. It's probably going to be. Well, not probably, it is less volume than what I'm looking at right now with your program. So I, I mean, I would love to let you follow that for three months and see what happens. And I bet you get as good of results, if not better, with about half the work.

I just feel like if I miss out, like, you know, I do the, you know, the, the main primary compounds, squat, you know, bench overhead, and then I do some isolation. I just feel like those isolation is so important that I wouldn't, you know, I wouldn't want to kind of get rid of them, you know, I just don't know. You know, that's why I asked me, am I doing too many? Too many. You know, I'll do one main, like I said, one main compound, and then I'll add another isolation to kind of help with, with some secondary stuff. I kind of like the routine I have, but I don't know.

[Doug]

Yeah, well, if, I mean, if you really. Because you're progressing, your testosterone's good, you're building muscle.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Doug]

So I don't know if you're necessarily over training. I mean, if you're noticing like, insomnia, excessive soreness and stiffness, if your progress is going backwards, then you're probably overdoing it. But if you're, if you're slowly progressing, you feel good, you're probably okay. But. So the real question is, can I do less and get the same results? If, if what you said was something you're really feeling, which is sometimes I don't want to work out for two hours. In other words, you don't want to work out for two hours. You probably don't have to, but are you over training? I'm not sure. I don't think so. Because you have been progressing.

[Caller]

I saw something in there about your rest periods and you're worried you're resting a bit too long, like. So is that what's extending it to two hours or, like. Because I don't have a problem with you resting a long time. I think that's great. Especially if you're focused on building strength in the compound lifts. If you're just focused on that and doing long rest periods in between, you should be, you know, gaining quite a bit of strength with that. But is that, is that what's trying to squeeze everything in with long rest periods?

Well, I experimented with that, Justin. I, I actually cut it down to a minute and a half. And then in the grand scheme of things, it really only cut like 10 minutes out on the total time. So it's not like I'm rushed for time, you know, that's not the thing. It's Just, you know, it's just kind of like, it's almost like a second job at times where, okay, now I know I got two hours to go out of my basement now to work out, which, you know, working off my passion, that's pretty much my, my main hobby. It's all I do really. So it's not bad. But you know, you know, there, there are days, especially on a Friday, when I know I got two hours when I kind of just want to relax after I get home from work. It's, it can kind of be, you know, a little demotivating at times. And then it's right as far as spinning my wheels, like, I'm just not seeing like the huge gains I, you know, all this time I'm putting in, I, I kind of would have expected a little bit more from this kind of in a Falcon phase right now. And it all kind of went to my gut. So I'm like, you know, that's a little disheartening there too.

Well, yeah, that's, that's just it. I think, I think Sal said it well, which is you're, I don't think you're necessarily over training and you, and I don't necessarily think you, you have to change this, but I think you could, I think you could do something like Maps Anabolic, which is about half the volume, and I think you would see as good, maybe even better results. But so it really comes down to you and what you want to do. If you, if you really enjoy these long two hour workouts and you feel good and fine, you're seeing results. I mean, at your age, how long you've been training, putting on, you know, five, five, six pounds like that in the time frame you did is not, is not bad.

[Doug]

No, you're moving forward.

[Caller]

But yeah, it could be better. And you know, always remember too, when what you can tolerate isn't necessarily what's optimal. So even though your body can handle the two hour workout and all the exercise you're doing, it doesn't necessarily mean it's the most optimal amount of volume for your body. So that, and sometimes that's hard to gauge because you're like, I feel fine, I'm doing it, I don't, I'm not too sore, I'm still recovering, I'm still seeing results. And so I'm, but it is a lot. And maybe if I were to cut back a little bit, would I see more? And so I think a good experiment would be, you know, let Doug send you Maps Anabolic run it For a while followed.

Just trying it out.

Yeah, follow it. The way it's laid out, you could still go into the gym five days a week like you are the days that you were kind of doing abs and stuff. You can keep doing that with your trigger sessions and, and see how your body responds and see if you enjoy it. And it should take you about half the time.

[Doug]

You know the thing too, Ron, that you just. From what I'm hearing from your, from what you're saying, if this is something you want to be able to do for the rest of your life, right. You want to exercise, you want to stay mobile and strong and independent for the rest of your life, the most important thing to consider in the entire context of this is the relationship that you have with exercise. Okay? So if you're finding yourself getting to the point where you're not liking it and it's drudgery and I'm showing two hours, I don't know if I want to do this. The risk, forget the risk of gains. The risk is you're going to start hating this and then you're not going to do it anymore. So. Okay, so let's just. Look, worst case scenario, you cut your workouts down to an hour, you sacrifice a pound of muscle a year, but your relationship to exercise stays strong. That's better. That's a better trade off. So consider that as well. So another thing to consider too. I mean, I would love for you to try Maps Anabolic, but here's another.

[Caller]

Thing, here's another thing.

[Doug]

You're going to go into your, your garage gym, your basement gym. You're like, oh, my God, I got to do two hours. There's nothing wrong with going. I'm going to do 30 minutes today because I'm, I'm going to protect the relationship I have with exercise. There's nothing wrong with that whatsoever. And I would bet my house that you wouldn't lose any gains from doing that occasionally.

[Caller]

It doesn't need to be an all or nothing situation.

Am I chasing ghosts at my age? I mean, is it still possible for me to get, you know, somewhat jacked here? I mean.

Yeah, of course.

[Doug]

Yeah, you're doing fine.

[Caller]

Look at Doug. Doug's 75 years old and look how good he looks.

[Doug]

He's almost 60. He's 20. He's almost 60.

[Caller]

Yeah.

Now the map's anabolic again. I work from home, so I mean, I don't know if.

[Doug]

Yeah, yeah, it's fine.

[Caller]

I don't have access to certain machines and all that, you know, What?

[Doug]

I mean, no, no, it's, it's. You're perfectly fine.

[Caller]

You're fine. We're going to send it to you.

[Doug]

Got a barbell and dumbbell, squat rack, bench. You're good.

[Caller]

Yeah. Doug's going to send it over to you, and then I'd love for you to stick to it. Yeah, I'd love for you to stick to it and then just circle back with us, reach back out after you've done that and let us know what you, what you noticed. And like Sal said, I do agree, like, the, the important part of this is the relationship. Regardless if you. Because you're. What you're doing is working, you can keep doing that. But what I think we all keep hearing from you is like, man, two hours can be daunting sometimes.

[Doug]

Don't do it.

[Caller]

Yeah, so. So, yeah, don't do that much. And let's see what happens.

I mean, is that average, though, or. I mean, what's, what's the average time?

Usually?

[Doug]

45 minutes to an hour.

[Caller]

An hour? I mean, my workouts are like 20 minutes right now. You could, you could. You know, when you've been lifting for a really long time, you'd be surprised how little stimulus you need to maintain the muscle that you have.

[Doug]

Here's it. Look, look. I've had two hour workouts, but the reason why I've had two hour workouts is I had long rest periods and I was going really heavy. So it's not like two hours of double the volume. It's typically two hours of the same volume. I'm just taking really long rest periods, doing a little bit of mobility in between, you know, stretching, you know, foam roll, whatever. And so, you know, when I train more powerlifting style, sometimes my workouts are an hour and a half or two hours, but it's not because I'm doing tons and tons of work.

[Caller]

Same.

But those shorter workouts, you're still able to hit all the main.

[Doug]

Absolutely.

[Caller]

Those compound lifts really cover a lot. So you're including those. You're. You're pretty good. I honestly, I think, you know, less is more for you, and you're doing the rest periods and everything. It's, it's. You're probably just a nice little change. Yeah, you're going to notice a big difference.

Yeah, I appreciate that, guys. Thanks for your time.

[Doug]

You got it. All right, Ron, thanks for calling in. We'll send that to you.

[Caller]

All right, guys, thank you very much.

[Doug]

Yeah, I, I used to do two hour workouts all the time.

[Caller]

How many, how many. Was it 10? Was it 10 exercises? I can't see to the, the scroll.

[Doug]

That's. I think that's, that's all in one day.

[Caller]

Yeah, yeah. Typical workout.

So that's, that is. Let's see here. He's got three on the compound lifts and two on the Iceland. He's not crazy overdoing it.

[Doug]

No, but it's 1, 2, 3. I mean, you know, count the sets there, Doug.

[Caller]

When he's doing three squats, it's about.

[Doug]

25 in one work.

[Caller]

In one workout.

Yeah, 25 sets of work.

You could switch that out.

Well, what he, what he, what he doesn't need to do that. He keeps. That he's doing is he's doing a compound lift and then an isolation of every like muscle.

Yeah, you don't need to. He could list all compound lists and.

[Doug]

He can also one workout, do more isolation.

[Caller]

One workout, that's right. We could have taken this thing. But I mean, Maps, that's what maps is just a better version of what he's trying to do.

[Doug]

Yeah, totally.

[Caller]

So hopefully he follows that, doesn't have to train for that long and then sees as good or better.

These are all great exercises.

[Doug]

Like I said, I've done two hour workouts, but it wasn't because I was doing a ton of volume. It was because I sat on the bench and rested for five.

[Caller]

You crank the intensity up. It's way better to, to up your rest period. You're going to have a lot better.

Well, I mean, I feel like you the ideally for that because I agree too. And I'm sure there's times where he likes to do is you build a program that should only take 45, 50 minutes. But then there's times when you drag it out for two hours because you're going to go extra heavy time rest and you got all the time. So. But you don't want to build a program that takes two hours of move.

[Doug]

You also don't want to follow every time a routine that you start to hate because then you'll stop at some point.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Adam Schaefer]

Our next caller is Andrea from California.

[Doug]

Hi. How can we help you?

[Caller]

Good morning.

Hi.

Thanks for having me. My question. Well, first of all, I'm a certified personal trainer and nutrition coach and all those things. But the question, I wrote it down. I always like can get to my goal weight and I'm probably like five to ten pounds away right now. But every time I get to my goal weight, it always comes back, even if I'm still eating the same. Haven't changed anything. And I was just saying, since you guys are always talking about like, muscle memory, I was just wondering if you guys thought there was maybe like fat memory and that's why it's so easy to gain the weight back all the time.

[Doug]

What a great question. Yeah, what a great question.

[Caller]

Metabolically adapted is more.

[Doug]

More the case, not like muscle memory. I mean, with muscle memory, we actually have observed epigenetic changes that, that make the adaptation the second or third time around much, much easier. Now, with body fat, what can happen?

[Caller]

Fat cells grow?

[Doug]

Well, fat cells grow and shrink, and you really only add the number of fat cells to your body. Well, as a woman, during puberty, third trimester of pregnancy, and for both men and women, it's suggested, and there's some studies that actually show this probably happens where if you gain body fat rapidly, that you, that you might add fat cells to your body. Adding fat cells would make gaining body unknown fact.

[Caller]

That's a.

[Doug]

There's a little debate. But yeah, I think, I think this happens.

[Caller]

I totally think this happens. You see this very competitors, yes, with bodybuilders because they put on the weight so fast, so fast. And then every time they do the next show, they follow the exact same protocol, but then this time they can't get quite as lean. And the, the theory, the prevailing theory on that is because you, every time you rapidly gain weight, you end up adding fat cells and they don't go away, they just shrink. So if you think every time you've kind of yo yo dieted in your life where you put on body fat, especially if it came on relatively quick, what ends up happening is your body adds more fat cells than it had before that, and they don't go away, they just shrink. And so if you can, over years or decades, have always lost weight, gained weight, lost weight, gain weight, then every time you go back to gaining weight, many times you're probably adding fat cells, which makes it that much more difficult to lose it. And it's that much easier to get it back because it just grows.

[Doug]

Now the key with that is the gain. The weight gain would be rapid. And the theory is that the body tries to find a way to capture the extra energy more effectively because of the rapid fat gain. And so then it adds fat cells. Also, your fat can change itself to being more or less metabolically active. You've heard of brown fat, you know, white fat, like cold temperature can make fat more, you know, thermogenic or metabolically active. Healthy people versus unhealthy people. You tend to See this as well. So that may also play some kind of a role. Now, I heard people, you know, I've. I've heard people talk about like a set point body weight set point type of deal. I think that genetically speaking, there's, there's probably a range that your body wants to stay within. I don't think it's obese. I don't think it's super ripped. It's kind of somewhere in this kind of like, you know, healthy middle. But, you know, it's hard to separate that from are behaviors as well. Behaviors also tend to take a set point, right? Like if you grow up your entire life eating, you know, with. With really no regard, developing a relationship with food that isn't, you know, loosely put, it's not healthy. And then you change your life and you try to pursue a healthy lifestyle, you know, and it's two years into this, like, you've lived a long time in a particular way. And so that's a difficult, that's a difficult chain to break, I guess. So it's hard to separate it, right, to see what's going on. But in terms of like, how muscle memory works. No, no, not the, not the same.

[Caller]

It's different. But I think, you know, there's something to it though. There's also the variable too, of if you have to cut calories really, really aggressively to lose that body fat and that that calorie number keeps getting lower and lower, it just makes it that much easier when you dip out of it in the surplus to add it back really fast. For example, if you can lose those 5 or 10 pounds, but you have to go down to say 1300 calories every single time you do that. Well, when you're only eating like 1300 calories, you know, you make a little 300 calorie mistake and it's a big portion of your daily intake. Right. Which your body can handle, versus if we reverse dieted, then we slowly leaned you out and you got. You lost your five pounds, but your body is at like, say 2400 calories and then you go up 200 calories. It's not as significant of a percentage as, you know, the person who's only eating 1300. So that plays a role also depending on how low calories you have to go to.

[Doug]

Yeah.

[Caller]

Awesome.

Yeah, thank you for clearing that up. I feel better.

Are you, are you, are you following any of the maps programs right now?

I have anabolic anesthetic, but I'm not currently doing one.

Okay.

[Doug]

Oh, cool. You want to follow One of our other programs like Power Lift or Muscle.

[Caller]

Mommy, I would love to do Power Lift.

[Doug]

Let's send it.

[Caller]

Oh, yeah, let's do it.

Let's get you there. Yeah. Great program.

[Doug]

You got it. Thanks for calling in. Bye bye. Bye.

[Caller]

You know, every time we travel, Adam feeds me ice cream, triggers my fat memory.

[Doug]

Fat memory. Every time when you remember being fat.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Doug]

You know what's. If you think of the body as an adaptation machine and let's say I'm just going to create a scenario, not a realistic one, but let's just, just for argument's sake, let's say you, you lose 50 pounds of body fat and then you gain it back and you do this every two years. Right. @ a certain point your body is probably like, this is going to happen again.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Doug]

So I'm going to capture more calories, I'm going to prepare for the starvation. I'm going to make this, you know, easier to survive and make this less stressful on myself. And so your body probably would get better at holding on to those calories. And again, metabolism, fat storage, where your body sends energy, we understand a lot of it, but there's a lot we don't understand. There's this huge gap between what we know and we don't know. It's so complex that at this point all we could do is base some of this off of our own experience, an anecdote, general practices and look, and again, you can make the argument it's biological, it's emotional or psychological. As a trainer or coach, I don't care. I don't care. All I know is you could try separating it all you want, but what I know is when somebody loses and gains weight, loses and gains weight, loses and gains weight, it gets harder and harder each time. So whether that's just biological, just psychological, all of the above, whatever, it does make it more challenging.

[Caller]

I didn't know that that was just a theory. I thought it was a fact. I thought we knew that if you put on.

[Doug]

It's been observ. But you're. I think you probably need to keep seeing it before you can make it like a fact.

[Caller]

I mean, is it.

[Doug]

I, I agree with it.

[Caller]

I think, I mean, I feel like I've. That's what I've seen with clients in the bodybuilding world myself, personally. I mean, so I thought when that the study studies came out, they're good studies on it. Yeah. It's just, I guess, I guess what constitutes fast is probably where that gray area it is.

[Doug]

And it's also like it counters long held beliefs and how we add fat cells. So forever we've been taught you don't add fat cells.

[Caller]

It seems like a natural like advantage for surviving. Right? So it seems like the body would want to do that.

[Doug]

Of course, that's why it makes sense. And we've seen stuff like that. So I would say based on the studies and our experience, I'm sure, I'm sure it happens.

[Adam Schaefer]

Our next caller is Kyle from New Hampshire.

[Doug]

Hey Kyle, what's going on?

[Caller]

Kyle, how you doing?

[Doug]

How can we help you?

[Caller]

So let me find my question again. I listen to you guys a lot. A lot of your advice helps me very much. But I am 6 foot 1 and over 390 pounds and I noticed a lot of your advice and advice that I hear online everywhere tends to be more towards aimed at people looking to cut maybe 10 to 25 pounds or to bulk up a little bit. I was wondering what advice you would give to somebody who has as much as 200 pounds to lose like I do. Cause like reverse dieting, eat more to lose more. It's kind of hard to do that when somebody ate their way to almost 400 pounds. Um, I'm running a three day full body routine that I, I like a bit that I built myself and I used to power lift a lot. I had a 330 pound bench, 370 squat and 435 deadlift. But I'm starting to get joint pain if I try to lift like that again. Um, so I'm just wondering what your advice would be for somebody who has a lot to lose instead of just like a little bit and trying to get in shape. Somebody wants to actually like completely change their life.

I, I love this question because you know, it gives us an opportunity to address this and, and it's not true. Yeah, it, psychologically it can be much more difficult because let me tell you, when you sit across from somebody who has that much to lose and you tell them, hey, I want you to add these things into your diet, they absolutely would look at me like I was crazy and be like, do you not see how I, where I'm at and how I got here? I much but it's too much of the wrong foods and there's things that we need to go after and start targeting. And so much of the advice is actually very similar in the fact that I want you to start focusing on eating whole foods. We're gonna go hit your protein target in, in your goal weight. Right. So whatever your goal weight is of you wanna be say that's £250 or 230 or something. We go, okay, well, we're gonna go after 230 grams of protein every day through Whole Foods. And that would be like step one. And that step one would be the same for you or the person who's probably trying to lose 20, 20 pounds, because we first have to get your. Feed your body what it needs and make sure we get you in a metabolically healthy place first before I just start cutting you. If I take you where you're currently at and just start cutting, cutting, cutting, it might lose a few pounds initially, but eventually you'll hit a plateau going that route, and you'd be far better off hitting those protein intakes, lifting weights to get strong, and building metabolism to where your metabolism is roaring before we start to come back down the other direction. So it's very similar, longer, obviously, the process. When I have a client that's got to lose over £100, it's a longer process of reverse dieting and take some time, but very, very similar advice still.

[Doug]

Yeah. Kyle, I appreciate you calling in and being so open and vulnerable. I think that's great.

[Caller]

Thank you.

[Doug]

The key here with what Adam's saying is prioritize the protein first from whole natural foods. So what we're not saying is eat like you currently eat and add the protein on top of it. Not necessarily. What we're saying is with every meal, start with. Start with it protein and stick to only whole natural foods. If you just do those two things, that's a. You don't have to do anything else. That's a big step that will actually take you.

[Caller]

It's going to taper down your calories naturally.

[Doug]

It'll take you pretty damn far. It'll take you pretty far before you have to make any other changes. Here's the challenge, the big challenge with. And I've worked with a lot of clients who've had to lose over 100 pounds. Okay. A significant amount in the 20 plus years that I've trained people. There's two big challenges. They're actually the same challenges that other people have, but they're more challenging because it's a little bit more complex. Number one is you just have a longer road to. To. To get to your, you know, quote, unquote goal. Yeah. It just takes longer to lose 100 pounds than it does to lose 20 pounds. Okay. So you just got to kind of stay on that a little longer. And number two, your relationship with food and exercise is. Is. Is more complex. Okay. It's just more complex. So someone may reach the point that you've reached when they're 30 pounds overweight, but for you, it took a lot longer because the. The relationship with food is a little bit more complex. So you probably have a relationship with food where you find yourself eating in. In binge or you find yourself eating for. For reasons other than hunger, whether it's comfort, hedonism, stress, whatever. As a result, your hunger signals are a little mismatched. And so what you feel or identify as satisfaction or full or whatever is far off from what would be considered healthy. And that's okay. You can rebuild and change your relationship with those things. So for someone like you, like, I'll ask you this question, Kyle, if this is something that you're very serious about now, that doesn't mean, when I ask people that they think that means, I'm not going to mess up, I'm going to do everything perfect. No, it literally means, like, is this important to you? If it is, I'm going to be very honest with you, Kyle. Nothing is going to guarantee your success as much as working with a coach through this whole process. Okay. The best possible investment you can make for this. I mean, we're going to give you some advice now. That's great. You can listen to the podcast. That's phenomenal. You can try doing it on your own. That's great as well. But your success rate will triple or quadruple if you have somebody that you're working with on a weekly basis. Virtually, even doesn't even have to be in person. In person would be great, but virtually, I think that would be. And what will happen with this person is as you're going through this process, you're going to hit those stumbling blocks, those challenges. You're going to get on with them, and they're going to be able to coach you through and guide you through that process. You're going to make mistakes. You're going to backslide 100%. Just accept the fact that that happens. We're all human. Give yourself grace. But you're going to have that guide and that coach to pull you out of that hole, pull you out of that shame, to help, to give you an anchor so that you can. You can keep somewhat moving forward, even if it means you're moving backwards sometimes, but you're kind of keeping. So a guide or a coach. Like, there's nothing I can tell you on this that will come close to the success that that could potentially bring you.

[Caller]

Kyle, are you in? Are you In a place financially where you can invest in something like that.

I'm not, unfortunately.

Okay, so then the next best thing. This is what we're going to do. I'm going to. I'm going to put you in our private forum if you're not in there already. Are you in there or no?

No.

Okay. I'm going to have Doug put you in the private forum. Okay. And then the first thing that I would do with you, which is what I would do with anybody, no matter what, is all I want you to do is track your food for a week. Don't try and impress me. Eat how you eat. Eat how you normally would eat. So I can see where our starting point is. If you update with me. Okay. I'll help you. The guys and I will get in there and we'll give you subtle changes and direction. Also set you up on a program that you should follow. Do you have access to a gym or do you work out at home? Where would you work out at?

I have access to a commercial gym.

Okay, cool. So you have pretty much any equipment, everything like that? Yep.

All kinds of stuff.

I'm gonna. I'm gonna have Doug set you up with a program to start you on.

Okay.

On. So the workout, that's taken care of. And then in the forum, if you, you know, give me what you eat. Okay. With either Fat secret, My Fitness Pal, one of those. In fact, when we get off this, I'm gonna have Kyle see if I can have Kyle put you in our app so I can track you directly. So I'm gonna have Kyle reach out to you. Who's our. We have a Kyle, too. Okay. Kyle's our head trainer. So I've Kyle reach out to you, see if I can put you in there so that I can directly see what you're eating, and then we'll make some adjustments. And then the boys and I are. Are going to follow along and. And get you going. I think the first 60 to 90 days will be the most crucial to. To. To setting this off. After I think we've been communicating with you for a while, I'll think. I think you'll piece it together pretty well.

[Doug]

And there is no such thing as too slow a progress. There is such a thing as too fast to progress. So keep that in mind. An inch moving forward is forward. That's the key to something like this. Because the big. The big mistakes I've seen people make over and over with this is they go too far too fast, make too many changes too quickly, and then they rebound or. And so we got to do stuff.

[Caller]

Still need to build, man. We need to build the muscle, we need to build the palette and build these better habits. And so this is still building in the beginning to take you even further long term. So it seems counter intuitive, but honestly, this is the best approach we've found with. With anybody, any size. So you're gonna. You're gonna do great with this, and it's all gonna kind of unfold if you approach it the right way.

Any. Any limitations before I send the program to you. So I know you have any sort of issues like working out, lifting, wise injuries, anything.

Not. Not anything specific. Being as big as I am, I try to deadlift and my belly kind of gets in the way. I've done some trap bar deadlifts, but other than that, I don't have a whole lot of issues.

Okay. Those are all things that we can. I see. I saw in your question that you. You've been. You've lifted pretty heavy before, so. Yeah, you're not. You're not.

Yeah.

Okay, good. That's it. That'll be. That'll be a huge advantage to us that you're familiar with those movements and you can. And we can put some weight on and get strong. So that'll actually help us a lot. So I'm gonna have Doug send you. I'll probably send a. Maps Anabolic. You think we start off with starter?

[Doug]

I mean, not starter. Excuse me. 15.

[Caller]

Oh, 15.

[Doug]

I like 15, bro.

[Caller]

Okay.

[Doug]

I love 15.

[Caller]

We'll go 15 first, and then we'll go into Anabolic.

[Doug]

Yeah, I love that because you'll be in the gym every day for a little bit. So it's really just building a habit. You're only gonna be in there for 20 minutes, and I'd, you know, I'd like to see you walk for five to ten minutes after breakfast, lunch, and dinner.

[Caller]

Do you have a.

[Doug]

That's it.

[Caller]

Do you have a tool that will track your steps?

I have a Fitbit.

Perfect.

I. One of the big issues I have with it, though, is my job is sedentary, but I'm moving my arms a lot, so it tracks steps that I'm not taking.

Okay.

So I haven't used it in a while.

[Doug]

You know what you could do, Kyle? If. So if you're sedentary throughout the day, you could every put on your shoes every. How many hours a day you work.

[Caller]

Look at Doug. Look this up. Right now, there is like, literally like a dollar. There's pedometers for, like a dollar on your belt. Yeah. And they just clip onto your belt. And that'll be. That'll be accurate enough. We don't need the most sophisticated tool. We just want something. And you're like me. I do the same thing. My. My wife teases me. She says, you're not walking that much. You're just talking with your hands. So I'm the same way. So those are. Those aren't the best for me. So, look, I'll have Doug send you a link to probably a basic Amazon one. Get something like that. Just so we have. And really all it is is just so we have a consistent tracker. So we have an idea. Because what I'll have the guys do is they're going to give you goals. Like, okay, hey, this week, I just want you to step this many steps per day, and we'll incrementally increase that over time. But I'm gonna. I'm gonna have the guys and I. We're gonna help you through this. Okay. Because I want to. I want to show you that. Absolutely, this is the way to do this, and we'll be right there to help you out.

Awesome. I appreciate it very much.

Okay.

[Doug]

You got it, man.

[Caller]

All right, dude, we're gonna send that over to you, and then be looking for a message from our guy Kyle and Doug, and then we'll take it from there, dude. All right.

Thank you, guys.

All right, brother.

[Doug]

Thank you.

[Caller]

Bye. Stranger things forever.

[Doug]

I'm glad he called in.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Doug]

Glad he called in. And for anybody listening, who's that in that situation? You know, you make one small step, you stick to it, then you make another small step, and you stick to it. The challenge is when you make the decision, like he did, to call in, right? Be on camera or whatever, you're often like, I'll do it all now. And then you just. You just.

[Caller]

Well, there's a lot of urgency and intensity around it when you get big. But, yeah, I mean, I've had to talk to a lot of. I have a lot of friends in that category from football, and it's like, you know, it just. It's. It just happens. And so it's. It's the same process, though, and it applies.

We've all helped a lot of clients in this position. The biggest difference between him and the. The lady who needs to lose 20 or 30 pounds is the psychological piece, of course, at that point. And he said it, you know, I'm saying, like, this is how I got here, and it's exactly how that, like, that client would talk to me when they were sitting across from me, and I'm like, listen, this is what I want you to start doing. I want you to.

[Doug]

You're.

[Caller]

You're gonna eat six meals a day. And they're like, what the fuck are you talking about? Like, are you not seeing how. What I look like, how I got here, Like, I eat too much. It's like, listen, it's just trust me. And so getting them to trust me that this is how we're gonna go about that is the hardest part, because that person really just thinks that this can't be possible, that we're gonna do this. But I'm telling you, it is. You know, when we do it the right way, it's. It's amazing.

[Doug]

When you have Kyle talk to him, Doug, why don't you tell Kyle just to talk to him about coaching to see if he can actually do it? Because he doesn't know how much it costs. He said he's not. It's not feasible. I'd like to talk. To have Kyle talk to him a little bit more, just to see if it's something you do, even for a few months, even if he did it for three months, it was significantly better than doing nothing at all. And oftentimes people say that because they're afraid. Not necessarily because it's not feasible. Maybe. You know, I'm not saying he's lying, but have Kyle approach him about that.

[Caller]

Yeah. Find out. Regardless, no matter what, I'm going to help him on this. This is not. I mean, I literally think if we can just help him. Him for the first 90 days and show him, you know, this.

[Doug]

Build that trust.

[Caller]

Yeah, yeah, build that trust. And when he starts eating more and giving that feedback of, oh, my God, I'm eating so much Adam. And he sees his strength go up in the gym, and he doesn't see the scale go up. That's like, where you get that switch for them to go, like, okay, I get it. I believe it and stuff. And the fact that he's got a history of heavy squatting and deadlifting and benching is going to be a massive advantage to us.

[Doug]

Totally.

[Caller]

And he's young. Yeah. So. So I hope. I hope he hangs in there, sticks with us and trusts us.

[Doug]

Totally. Look, if you like the show, come find us on Instagram. Justin is mindpumpjustin. I'm mindpump Distefano. Adam's mindpump.

[Adam Schaefer]

Adam, thank you for listening to Mind Pump. If your goal is to build and shape your body, dramatically improve your health and energy and maximize your overall performance. Check out our discounted RGB super [e-mail] the RGB Super Bundle includes Maps, Anabolic Maps, Performance and Maps Aesthetics Nine months of phased expert exercise programming designed by Sal, Adam and Justin to systematically transform the way your body looks, feels and performs with detailed workout blueprints and over 200 videos. The RGB Super Bundle is like having Sal, Adam and Justin as your own personal trainers, but at a fraction of the price. The RGB Super Bundle has a full 30 day money back guarantee and you can get it now. Plus other valuable free [e-mail] if you enjoy this show, please share the love by leaving us a five star rating and review on itunes and by introducing Mind Pump to your friends and family. We thank you for your support and until next time, this is Mind Pump.

[Sal DiStefano]

Marketing is hard, but I'll tell you a little secret. It doesn't have to be. Let me point something out. You're listening to a podcast right now and it's great. You love the host. You seek it out and download it. You listen to it while driving, working out, cooking, even going to the bathroom. Podcasts are a pretty close companion. And this is a podcast ad. Did I get your attention? You can reach great listeners like yourself with podcast advertising from Libsyn Ads. Choose from hundreds of top podcasts offering host endorsements or run a pre produced ad like this one across thousands of shows. To reach your target audience in their favorite podcasts with Libsyn ads, go to Libsyn ads.com that's L I B S Y N ads.com today.

[J]

Hi, I'm Chris Gethard and I'm very excited to tell you about Beautiful Anonymous, a podcast where I talk to random people on the phone. I tweet out a phone number. Thousands of people try to call you. Talk to one of them. They stay anonymous. I can't hang up. That's all the rules. I never know what's going to happen. We get serious ones. I've talked with meth dealers on their way to prison. I've talked to people who survived mass shootings. Crazy funny ones. I talked to a guy with a goose laugh, somebody who dresses up as a pirate on the weekends. I never know what's going to happen. It's a great show. Subscribe today Beautiful Anonymous.