2549: Body Part Split Vs. Full Body... How to Know Which One is Best for You & More (Listener Live Coaching)

Summary

Mind Pump: Raw Fitness Truth - Episode 2549 Summary

Release Date: March 8, 2025

Hosts: Sal Di Stefano, Adam Schaefer, Justin Andrews
Producer: Doug Egge

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Introduction

In Episode 2549 of Mind Pump: Raw Fitness Truth, hosts Sal Di Stefano, Adam Schaefer, Justin Andrews, and producer Doug Egge delve deep into the debate between Body Part Split and Full Body workout routines. This episode not only dissects the merits and drawbacks of each approach but also offers listener live coaching to address real fitness concerns.

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Body Part Split vs. Full Body Workouts

Full Body Workouts: The Superior Choice for Strength and Consistency

The hosts unanimously argue that Full Body routines often outperform Body Part Splits, especially for those aiming to increase overall strength and maintain consistency.

• Frequency Enhances Strength:
  Justin Andrews emphasizes, “If your overall strength, especially strength on specific lifts is your goal, then full body is probably superior for most people. And I think it really boils down to more frequent practice of the exercise you're trying to get stronger at.” (03:44)

• Skill Improvement Without Fatigue:
  Justin continues, “The more you can practice a lift and not be fatigued, the more you're going to train strength and frequent practice improves the skill that's involved with the lift.” (04:40)
  Doug Egge adds, “In the performance world, you've known this forever. Practice refines your skill without fatigue being a factor.” (05:20)

• Avoiding the “Punishment” Attitude:
  Adam Schaefer reflects on his past approach, admitting, “A workout wasn't successful unless I was hobbling out of the gym... I was so wrong about the approach.” (05:25)
  This admission underscores the shift from viewing workouts as punitive to seeing them as skill development opportunities.

Body Part Splits: When They Make Sense

While the consensus leans towards full body routines, the hosts acknowledge scenarios where Body Part Splits can be beneficial.

• Isolation for Lagging Body Parts:
  Justin notes, “If you're somebody that loves isolation or auxiliary exercises... a split is probably a funner workout for you... which one you enjoy most is probably the one that you'll do the most consistent in that case.” (13:03)
  Adam shares a relatable story, saying, “My friend, an ex-bikini athlete, saw incredible results even with fewer leg exercises on our program. It wasn't fluff; it was targeted, effective work.” (15:22)

• Advanced Training for Bodybuilders:
  Justin concedes, “For a pro bodybuilder who's doing 30 sets per body part per week... a full body routine doesn't make sense.” (16:45)
  This highlights that elite athletes with specific hypertrophy goals might benefit from split routines.

Scientific Backing

The hosts reference a recent meta-analysis comparing the two routines, reaffirming that Full Body workouts often lead to better strength gains when volume is controlled.

• Meta-Analysis Insights:
  Justin states, “While the gain are very similar when volume is controlled, when it comes to strength, full body is better. There are no studies that show split is better.” (08:40)
  Adam echoes this sentiment, emphasizing the importance of real-world applicability over controlled study environments.

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Practical Advantages of Full Body Routines

1. Time Efficiency:
   Justin explains, “A full body routine, three days a week requires less time in the gym than a six-day split.” (09:55)

2. Flexibility with Schedules:
   Doug adds, “You have more flexibility with a full body routine. If you miss a workout, you can catch up without throwing off muscle balance.” (10:28)
   This is crucial for the average person who may not adhere to a strict workout schedule.

3. Balanced Physique Maintenance:
   Adam highlights, “When you train full body, even if you miss a couple workouts, you're maintaining a well-balanced physique.” (11:33)

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Addressing Common Concerns

Volume and Exercise Selection in Splits

Adam challenges the excessive volume often associated with split routines, sharing his client's experience:
“She was blown away by how little we programmed for legs, yet saw incredible results. Excessive sets often include subpar exercises that don't contribute significantly.” (15:22)

Handling Overtraining and Ensuring Sustainability

Justin advises, “If you're on a full body routine and pushing too hard, you might mix up volume with quality. It's essential to train smart to avoid overtraining.” (16:25)

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Listener Live Coaching

The second half of the episode features live coaching, addressing listener questions on various fitness topics. Notably:

1. Impact of Weightlifting on Liver Function Tests
   Sarah from Connecticut shares her experience with elevated liver enzymes potentially caused by intense weightlifting. The hosts discuss the overlap between muscle damage and liver function markers, emphasizing the importance of informing physicians about workout routines to avoid unnecessary referrals.

   • Notable Quote:
     Justin Andrews advises, “When you get blood tests, let your doctor know you do strenuous exercise so they can interpret the results accurately.” (59:07)

2. Improving Grip Strength and Managing Digestive Issues During Bulking
   Tasia from Canada seeks advice on enhancing grip strength and mitigating digestive discomfort while increasing caloric intake during a bulk. The hosts recommend incorporating isometric exercises, using chalk for better grip, and adjusting calorie intake to support digestion.

   • Notable Quote:
     Justin suggests, “Focus on the neural drive rather than just the muscles. Incorporate isometrics to strengthen your grip naturally.” (66:54)

3. Hacking Mindset for Consistent Productivity Beyond PR Days
   Eric from Florida inquires about maintaining productivity on non-PR days and preparing for the eventual plateau in strength gains. The hosts emphasize the importance of finding joy in the process rather than solely chasing personal records, advocating for a balanced approach that integrates fitness into overall life satisfaction.

   • Notable Quote:
     Justin advises, “Do exercise for the joy of movement, not just for hitting PRs. This ensures a sustainable and healthy relationship with fitness.” (84:33)

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Concluding Insights

Throughout the episode, the hosts reinforce the idea that Full Body workouts are generally more beneficial for most individuals seeking strength and consistency. However, they acknowledge specific scenarios where Body Part Splits can be advantageous, particularly for advanced athletes or those targeting lagging muscle areas.

Key Takeaways:

• Full Body Workouts enhance strength and skill through frequent practice without excessive fatigue.
• Consistency is easier with full body routines, making them ideal for the average person.
• Body Part Splits are suitable for advanced athletes or those needing to focus on specific muscle groups.
• Scientific Evidence supports the superiority of full body routines for strength gains when volume is managed.
• Balanced Approach and mindset are crucial for sustainable fitness progress and overall well-being.

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Quotes and Timestamps

• “If your overall strength, especially strength on specific lifts is your goal, then full body is probably superior for most people.” — Justin Andrews (03:44)

• “The more you can practice a lift and not be fatigued, the more you're going to train strength.” — Justin Andrews (04:40)

• “A workout wasn't successful unless I was hobbling out of the gym... I was so wrong about the approach.” — Adam Schaefer (05:25)

• “If you miss a workout, you can catch up without throwing off muscle balance.” — Doug Egge (10:28)

• “Maintain a well-balanced physique even if you miss a couple workouts.” — Adam Schaefer (11:33)

• “Focus on the neural drive rather than just the muscles. Incorporate isometrics to strengthen your grip naturally.” — Justin Andrews (66:54)

• “Do exercise for the joy of movement, not just for hitting PRs.” — Justin Andrews (84:33)

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Final Thoughts

Episode 2549 of Mind Pump: Raw Fitness Truth offers a comprehensive exploration of workout routines, blending scientific insights with practical advice. The hosts provide valuable guidance for both novice and seasoned fitness enthusiasts, ensuring that listeners can make informed decisions tailored to their individual goals and lifestyles.

For more insights and personalized training protocols, visit mindpumppodcast.com or follow the hosts on Instagram: @mindpumpmedia, @mindpumpsal, @mindpumpadam, @mindpumpjustin, and @mindpumpdoug.

Transcript

[Sal Destefano]

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[Adam Schaefer]

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[Sal Destefano]

If you want to pump your body and expand your mind, there's only one place to go. Mind Pump Mind Pump with your hosts Sal Destefano, Adam Schaefer and Justin Andrews.

[Justin Andrews]

You just found the most downloaded fitness, health and entertainment podcast in the history of the universe. This is Mind Pump. Today's episode we have people call in, we got to help them out on air. We coach them with their health and fitness. But this was after the intro portion of this episode. The Intro today was 51 minutes long. In that portion we talk about fitness, science, diet studies. It's a great time. Then we get to the coaching questions. By the way, if you want to be on an episode like this one, have us help you on air. Email us your [e-mail] this episode is brought to you by some sponsors. The first one is Butcherbox. They deliver grass fed meat, crate free pork. They deliver wild caught fish, the best protein sources to your door. Healthy, clean and for a good price. Go check them out. Go to butcherbox.com mindpump by the way, new users will get your choice between chicken breast, ground beef or top sirloin included in addition for free in your box for a year. But you have to use the code mindpump by the way. That'll also give you $20 off. This episode is also brought to you by Caldera Lab. Skincare. Products that are natural that work except exceptionally well. It's the first time any of us have used the skincare product and we've been with them for years now. Go check them out. Go to caldera lab.com that's C A L D E R a l a b.com mindpump Use the code mindpump20 and get 20% off your first order. Also, two days left for the brand new Maps program. Maps Transform. Change your body in 90 days from before to after. That's what this program's all about. Maps Transform. Because it's a brand new program, it's $70 off and we're including Adam's 90 day body recomp journal and the Maps Transformation diet guide, both included for free. If you're Interested, go to Maps transform.com use the code transform70 for the discount and the two free editions. All right, here comes the show. Stop your full body or body part split routine. If it's not right for you, it is killing your gains. We're going to talk about this right now. I'll start with the first one. If your, if overall strength, especially strength on specific lifts is your goal, then full body is probably superior for most people. And I think it really boils down to more frequent practice of the exercise you're trying to get stronger at.

[Adam Schaefer]

While.

[Justin Andrews]

You'Re strong or not fatigued. So in other words, the more you can practice a lift and not be fatigued, the more you're going to train strength and frequent practice improves the skill that's involved with the lift. And when it comes to specific lifts, like pick a bench press, for example, some of the strength that you can display has to do with your skill or the skill of the bench press. So practicing the. Just like throwing a baseball, this is an easy one because people would agree with this. Throwing a baseball involves strength and speed, obviously, but it also involves technique or skill. Without the skill, strength and speed, you're not gonna throw the ball very far. Same is true for all the lifts. And practicing them without fatigue allows you to perfect the skill and practice them frequently. In the sense that you're practicing more days a week versus less days a week, even if the total volume is the same, you'll get stronger at specific lifts better with full body.

[Doug]

Well, we've known this to be true in the performance world, in the sports world forever. And it's like that's why you go practice. You're refining the skill, you're, you're improving every day without fatigue being a factor. I think, you know, somewhere along the lines when the, you know, fitness became more mainstream, like there was this thought that you had to get super exhausted and you had to really, you Know, squeeze every last ounce of energy out in your workout. And that became sort of the. The thought process going into workouts, when in fact, there is. That is a component. And that still applies. Like, if. If you're gonna train to. To be able to improve your skill, you're gonna get stronger as a result of that. Otherwise, we're kind of spinning our wheels.

[Adam Schaefer]

I'd love to start a trend that says, like, stop working out. Practice lifting weights and stuff.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah. Yep.

[Adam Schaefer]

I just think that. And I wish. I wish I actually understood that earlier parts of my career, because I absolutely was the other side. Right. I was. A workout wasn't successful unless I was hobbling out of the gym or I didn't have a good workout unless I was so sore the next day. I was so wrong about the approach there. And I think. I just think we would have gotten so much further had I approached the lifting with this mental. Which is crazy for me because I feel like. I feel a bit ashamed because I love the sport world so much and grasp that analogy so well. It's like, of course. Of course, I would never grab a golf club and just start hacking away as hard as possible, expecting to see good results, you know? No. I would go and break down the swing and lightly use 50 or less. The intensity, I mean, that's what they teach you even when you go swing is like, don't even pull all the way back, half swing and just get that down. It's like. And so that applies to every other sport. Yet we've approached working out so different. We've approached workout with the. The punishment attitude, or how much can I sweat or burn? And so I think so many people would see so much better results if they went into the. Not only better results, but I also think you would find your consistency, which we know is so important to your results and training because you're not like, I don't know how many times I didn't train the next day because I was like, I can't. I'm so sore.

[Doug]

Or it hindered my work, especially in a split routine. And I think that's. I mean, that's a definitive difference because, like, programmed a full body. You only hit so much volume for that particular body part. So. But the split routine, I mean, you could really go ham with a certain body part. And. And it's. It's gonna deter you from wanting to lift that body part.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah. So the reason why this kind of got lost, because this was an understanding, by the way, in the early days of strength sports, all the athletes understood that exercises were skills and they practiced them. They practice them like you would practice any skills. But then bodybuilding became popular where the competition became about presenting my body, whereas in the early days the competition was about what I could do. And then they do some body, you know, some presentation. But it was also like who can lift the most weight overhead with one arm or something like that. So what happened was exercise became a means to an end rather than looking at the exercises themselves as valuable. So in other words, chest, and here's all your 10 exercises for chest. Doesn't matter which one you do, just hammer your chest. Well, that's actually not true. Now, yes, they do work body parts, but the exercises themselves, the better they get performed, the better the results they give you as well. And then when it comes to strength, because we're not even talking about hypertrophy and physique gains, when it comes to strength, the better you perform an exercise, the better you, the stronger you are. So to give you an example, practicing bench press for 15 sets once a week will not, you will not get as good at bench press than if you did five sets Monday, Wednesday, Friday. So still doing 15 sets. But now I'm practicing on a Monday, on Wednesday and Friday versus all on Monday. And I'm not, you know, If I do 15 sets of bench press on Monday, by the time I'm done with the sixth set, like I'm fried. Technique is out the window. Now I'm just training endurance and I can't really perfect my skill. So this is why when you look at the data on split routines versus full body, although, you know, in fact there was a recent meta analysis done comparing the two gains were very similar when volume was controlled for. However, when it comes to strength, there are studies that show that full body is better. There are no studies that show split is better. So when it comes to strength, which is very important, it's very important, it becomes less important the stronger you become. In other words, if you're super advanced, you know, to go from a 400 pound bench press to 425 bench press, you know, that's the, the returns aren't really worth it. But if you're in your first three years of training, strength is very important. It makes a big difference. And so if you're, if you want to get stronger, practicing the lifts more often with less fatigue is more beneficial. So full body is superior.

[Adam Schaefer]

I can't wait to hear your argument for, for the split. Because I mean, everything you're saying right now for full Body. It seems like it would. Like, where are you going to come up with the reason where full body makes more? I mean, excuse me, where split makes more sense than the full body.

[Justin Andrews]

Well, well, the next one is more is for full body. But we'll get to split because there are cases where split, you know, can actually make sense. But the next point here is if you're short on time. Now, this is an easy point to make. Right. A full body routine, three days a week requires less time in the gym than, you know, a six day split.

[Doug]

Right.

[Justin Andrews]

Hitting all the body parts with the same amount of volume. And this is the case and we don't need to spend a lot of time here because this is the one time the average person gets it. I think the one time the average person goes with a full body routine is, oh, I can only go to the gym two days a week or three days a week.

[Doug]

So I, I've so much more flexibility with it.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah.

[Doug]

You know, if you miss a workout, it's not the worst thing because, you know, you can have that full body routine.

[Justin Andrews]

That's right.

[Doug]

The following day and you're going to catch up.

[Adam Schaefer]

I mean, that's the. To me, that has always been the strongest argument for either one of these is when you train enough people for as long as we have, you start to pick up on common patterns and behaviors amongst the general population. We're not talking about the highly competitive competitor or the athlete that's a pro. Like the average person rarely ever doesn't have days that they miss. They don't have. They have weeks where they.

[Justin Andrews]

It's not their career, to be honest.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah, exactly. It's not their career to show up to the gym. And they do it because they want to be healthy, they want to be fit, or their doctor said they need to. And so they're likely to miss a workout here and there. And that happens relatively frequently. It's not like they barely ever miss. They miss quite a bit.

[Justin Andrews]

Most people, even if they're consistent, will miss a couple workouts a month.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yes.

[Justin Andrews]

At least.

[Adam Schaefer]

So in, in, in, in that case, man, whenever I was running some sort of a split with a client that throws everything off. It was just much easier if I had a client that our goal was to train three full bodies, full body workouts a week, and if they missed one or even two workouts in that same week, we would be okay. We would, we still were keeping.

[Justin Andrews]

Because the volume is consistent for the whole body, you don't develop. Here's what happens, Adam. I'LL add to that. What. What workouts or what days on a split routine do people tend to miss when they do miss? Yeah, like they don't like the most.

[Adam Schaefer]

Legs day. Leg day.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah, leg day.

[Adam Schaefer]

For that's where that. By the way. That's where that came from. By the way. Yeah, that's where that's where chicken legs Monday chest day became a joke and were leg day comments. That's where it came from. It came from bros guys working body part splits and skipping the workout. The. The muscle they don't want to do and then. Or, or when it shows, you show up back to the.

[Justin Andrews]

How often do they skip bicep day?

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah, you never. And listen and by the way, speaking from calling myself out like I was definitely that kid who you know, I missed a workout. I wasn't missing arm day, you know what I'm saying? Like arm day never got missed. But oh, leg day. Oh, too bad I was sick on that day. Next muscle. I mean and so that's where all the memes come from is that. And so it's very common that people miss and when they do it really throws off a split where if you're in a full body routine, you tend to stay on pace and on track still. And there's still well balanced physique.

[Justin Andrews]

All right, so here's a point for split and this is kind of a two point. All right. If you're somebody that loves isolation or auxiliary exercises, you like all the weird movements and you like a lot of volume per body part and you can handle a lot of volume per body part. Well, a split is probably a funner workout for you and it's better. The one you enjoy most is probably the one that you'll do the most consistent in that case. I can see it. So you know, if I'm doing full body, I mean legs, chest, back, shoulders, arms, you know, I'm doing some core. I'm. I can't. I'm not going to be throwing in a ton of all these, you know, you know, one arm cable, crossover, upper chest, lower chest, machine press sideways. I'm not doing all these weird extra because I don't have time. I'm gonna be in the gym for three hours. But if today's chest then I have an hour that I can spend hitting chest. Well now I can do all those weird. Especially all the machines.

[Doug]

Yeah, I mean really, I don't see a good case for machines in a full body workout routine, you know, because you're limited to the. The bangers. Right. You only need the ones that move the needle the most. This one? Yeah. You could, you could literally just like spend all your time with chest, you know, for that day, like all the different machines. And it is fun. You know, there's, there's a bit of novelty to that.

[Adam Schaefer]

Now, I know you're. You're making the argument in the case for split here with that point, but I'm going to challenge that point for the simple fact we just had a great caller. She was an ex women's bikini athlete, incredible physique. Competed for a long time, just came off of having a kid and was following our maps. Anabolic program or Muscle Mommy. Muscle Mommy is what she was following. And she was really nervous because she's like, this doesn't have enough volume for my legs. I trained so many more exercises, and yet she had stuck through the process and saw incredible results. And it kind of baffled her because of how many. How many more exercises that she typically does for her butt and her legs. And so my argument to you about that is, you're right. You can do all these great machine exercises and isolation exercises, but then what ends up happening is because of that, you tend to don't get as much of the good ones and you get more of all the ones that are inferior.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah.

[Adam Schaefer]

And so, you know, and that this was a great. And I hope the boys can clip this in this conversation so the listener can see this, this conversation we had, because I think it's such a great, great point. You have somebody with a great physique, knows what she's doing. Very smart trainer. Right. Just was blown away by how little she thought we were programming legs. And it's like, it isn't, it's watch what your legs do because what's in there is no fluff. It's all the stuff that's going to move the needle the most. And when somebody has a full day of a muscle, they might have one or two great exercise in there, and then it tends to have a lot of fluff. So what they count as the total sets. Say you did 15 for one muscle group in there. Well, yeah, 8 of it was fire, 7 of it was subpar. And so then this is another, in my opinion, case for full body, because if, if, if volume is accounted for, then. And they each did 15 sets total in the week, and that one did all 15 in a workout. What ends up happening is five. Five to seven of it is really good lifts. And then the rest is these.

[Doug]

Kind of wasting your time. Yeah.

[Adam Schaefer]

Where the person who Split it up in three days. What do they do?

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah, but you're, but, you know, you're 100, and you're spoken like a trainer who's trained a lot of people. But there are those people who can handle a tremendous amount of volume. I'll use an extreme example. A pro bodybuilder who's doing 30 sets per body part per week. A full body routine doesn't make any sense.

[Adam Schaefer]

Well, that.

[Justin Andrews]

So maybe in the gym for three hours.

[Adam Schaefer]

And to me, you're right. And that I got to. Once I got to that level, that's how I was training.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah, because it made you. You would be in the gym too long.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah, I'm in the gym two hours a day, seven days a week. You know what I'm saying? So I had all the time in the world to, to not only hit all the bangers, but then add all the other stuff. So I definitely am not arguing that point for a pro bodybuilder, a pro athlete like that. I mean, those people that are. Their job is to be in the gym tend to do a pretty good job of covering. Like, this isn't me calling out 1%. I guarantee somebody's listening right now and is just like, well, you know, you know, Ronnie Coleman trained. This was like, yeah, okay. I'm not calling out the super bodybuilder who's like, you know, definitely hitting the big body. Like they're, they're definitely hitting the good L shifts and then they're doing a bunch more. I'm talking about the general pop that thinks they want to be or they want to look like that person. But you technically fall in the general population category.

[Justin Andrews]

Another category where I think a split can for some people be an advantage is for somebody who's really wanting to focus on a particular lagging body part. Now, you could definitely do this with a full body routine, but a body part split lends itself well to it because you have a day. You have a day where you're working that body part that's lagging and you can go in and you could just focus on it and you can prime it and you can work the big banger and then you can add a little extra volume on other areas. And so I think in that case, for some people, I think it works well, whereas a full body routine, you can still do it. You just prioritize it in the workout.

[Doug]

Right.

[Justin Andrews]

But sometimes it's. It's hard to hit that lagging party part because I'm also hitting chest, back, shoulders, you know, arms yeah.

[Doug]

Or you prime it really well and you learn because it's really a connection issue for the most part, a lot of times with the lagging body part. But yeah, that'll help you at least, you know, rep through and rebuild and, you know, enhance that connectivity with, you know, mind muscle. But there are ways to do it in full body. It's just not as obvious, I think, for people. But yeah, that's one way you can at least ensure that, you know, you're going to get it to respond.

[Adam Schaefer]

So this is, this is my favorite case for it or favorite argument for it. And this is kind of how it looked for me. I've told the story before on the podcast about the. The female competitor who told me I had weak shoulders. And I remember that like, that set me on fire. Right. And so the, and the way I hurt your heart. Yeah, it did. It just hurt my soul. You know, this is, this is where, like, this is where I applied this like that from that moment on. Not kidding. It was like, now, you know what everybody says, like, you know, national chest. It was National Shoulder Day. I did not miss Mondays with shoulders first. And it would. Yeah, first. And that was just. It was like, if you really do have a lagging body part and you put it to the front of the line, that. That becomes now the workout you never miss. Right. And I've applied this also. This was one of the ways I applied catching my legs up. Because even when I admit that, that I was that young kid who skipped those leg days, once I realized, oh, I can't do that now, legs become part of then legs was the front of the line, right. So then it was just like, oh, if I, you know, let's say I trained her. And I'll tell you what this looks like. Let's say Monday is leg day, Tuesday, shoulder day, Wednesday got sick, something happened, and then two days later, I come back to the gym. Well, whenever that would happen to me, I started back over on legs on legs again. So I, I got the. The same or more volume always to that lagging body part to help bring it up. That's how I like that. I like if you have a lagging body part that you really. Because when you're trying to balance the physique out and you have a lagging body part, it's actually okay if the other ones get left behind a little bit because you're out of balance. And so it's okay that. That week that I just gave as an example, well, I missed chest day. Well, yeah, well, Chest was a strength at that point. Or I missed arm day. Yeah, it's okay because arms were strength. They can handle a week off. I can't miss legs. And so legs actually got hit an extra bit of time. And so then it worked to my advantage running a split even on weeks where I missed the day because I would start the week back over on the week. So I never missed that, that workout.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah, 100%. And then lastly, and this is why, if you've listened to our show for a while, you know, when this conversation comes up, we almost always recommend full body workouts. And that's this point, like, if you are like most people versus the, you know, 5 or 10% of outsiders who have everything dialed can handle a lot of volume. This is like, like a big. This is like your life, then you're better off doing a full body. Now, the problem with this, a lot of people lie to themselves. There's a lot of people listening and watching right now. Or like, yeah, I'm that 5%. No, you're not. You're probably not. You're. You're. How do you ask yourself this when you're in a serious gym? Are you one of the 5% of people that is most jacked and most impressive? If it's not you, then you're probably like, everybody must like everybody else and you'll get better results with a full body routine. Yeah, and so that's, that's just the one.

[Adam Schaefer]

And I agree with you too. This is like. And I know what the research is. Shows are pretty you. But what people have to remember about the, the research and the studies and the people that tout that stuff all the time is that they're in, it's in a controlled environment. And nobody works in a controlled environment like that. You all have real life things that happen to you. And so when we put together a routine or when we recommend advice to people on the podcast, you've always got to remember that because we always get some sort of pushback anytime that we counter or we challenge something that's said in a study. Because we all don't live in a study. We all have real life stuff. And, and, and we also play the, the mental part of this too, the psychology behind behavior. Also you have to factor those in. When you're deciding to go on a diet, when you're deciding to follow a routine, you have to factor in the psychological part. You have to fight. You have to factor in the behavioral component. And that's where we come up with the advice. It's the, it's the science, obviously that's important. That's the base of the direction that we make a point paired with the psychology and the behavioral aspect and real world experience and. Yes. And that, that's where you get this kind of conversation and why we tend to lean that direction is not because I haven't seen an example of somebody in a body part split that looks amazing. Of course I have.

[Justin Andrews]

You know, so I mean, look, just to back you up, like the, the, the meta analysis that was just, it was last year. So the newer one, remember, a meta analysis is an analysis of many studies and they're the most reliable when it comes to, well, what is the result? You know, what's the answer? And here's what the meta analysis shows, that when all things are controlled and consistent, there isn't a big difference. Okay. However, however, when you factor in all the things that we talked about, the edge strongly goes to full body. So if everything's perfect, there's not a big difference. If you're not perfect, which you're not, and things are going to go, you know, sometimes you'll miss a workout or whatever. Full body is superior. And that's exactly the experience we had. 99% of people I worked with, which includes people that were serious, which includes people that really wanted to, you know, get great gains, did better on full body workouts. All right, I'm going to switch to diet because I'm really getting a kick. We talked about this before a couple times now where we compared grass fed meat to traditional meat. Yeah. And the argument typically goes something like this, like grass fed meat is better because it's higher in beneficial fatty acids. It's lower in inflammatory fatty acids. It's slightly higher in suit certain nutrients. It's higher in cla, which is a fatty acid that's got some fat burning properties. So it's just healthier, right? It's a healthier type of meat. Which is true. It is true. Especially if you eat a lot of red meat. Going grass fed is, is going to be better for your health. You don't eat a ton of meat, it's not gonna be a huge difference. But if you eat a lot of meat makes a big difference. But the selling point that is really sticking with me. I'll give you guys an example. I actually took two screenshots to show the difference. So you're, you know, you're, you're trying to decide between grass fed or regular tri tip. Okay. Eight ounces of regular tri tip is 392 calories. I could eat two more ounces of grass fed and eat 375 calories. And how much more protein? 62 grams of protein in the grass fed versus 47 grams.

[Doug]

Wow.

[Justin Andrews]

So I can eat more two.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

So more volume, less calories, more protein.

[Adam Schaefer]

Wow.

[Justin Andrews]

So it's like, it's a win, win, win.

[Adam Schaefer]

What a great, easy way to control calories. Or cut calories too. Let's say you're on a diet where you allowed all the other stuff. Like, if you literally just change that. Like, let's.

[Justin Andrews]

Because if you keep the ounces the same, cuts the same, everything the same. You went to grass fed, calories drop and protein goes up. Yeah. What a great selling point for our partner, Butcherbox. I, I, I hope that they hear and talk, you know, the podcast, listen to what we say. Because what's always sold again is the health benefits. And I think a lot of people now have heard that enough. But what's not sold enough is, hey, you want to eat more and get lower calories. Oh, and bump your protein while eating the same.

[Doug]

Huge benefits of that.

[Justin Andrews]

Like, yeah, that's crazy. Imagine going on a cut and not changing your meal. Everything's the same. Your same amount of switch to grass fed. You just switch to grass fed.

[Adam Schaefer]

I mean, what a big difference. I, I think I. Oh, I mean, I don't think.

[Justin Andrews]

I mean, I compared 10 ounces.

[Adam Schaefer]

I knew that. I think you guys did too. I didn't think I realized how much, though.

[Justin Andrews]

It's a big, it's not a little different.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah, that's a big difference. Jumping 20 grams of protein. I mean, it's hard to find 20 grams of protein.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah.

[Adam Schaefer]

So that's, that's a tough. So being able to add 20 grams to the same amount of ounces of meat that you're already currently eating, that's. That's incredible.

[Justin Andrews]

I know. That's amazing. I know, I know. I love it. That's. I think that's one of the reasons why I didn't realize this, but I always feel better when I eat more grass fed versus grain fed. And I think part of it's the fatty acid profile. I eat a lot of red meat. Okay. So for people, I eat probably a pound or more of red meat that's not including other protein sources, but have just red meat almost every day. So I ate a lot. So I think that's part of it. I think the other part of it is I end up with a better macro profile. And I'm not, I have never really calculated it. But I bet my protein, I mean, of course my protein goes up and everything's so much better off. Speaking of diet, did you guys see the study on. I think it's brain cancer. What type of brain cancer? Glioma, if I'm not mistaken. Did you guys see the study on brain cancer and diet? I'm gonna pull it up. This is flying right now. This is absolutely flat. So glioblastoma multiform. So say that this is a type of brain. I mean, brain cancer in general is terrible.

[Adam Schaefer]

It's one of the worst.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah, Doug, look up the, the five year. Look up the prognosis or the survival rate of glioblastoma multiform brain cancer. Actually, I know what it is here. Spell that out. I already know what it is here. So they did a study where they took people with this cancer.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

They kept some of them on a regular diet, then they took some of them and put them on a keto diet. So this cancer has a terrible survival rate.

[Adam Schaefer]

And they already have it.

[Justin Andrews]

They got it.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

There's a terror. It's like if you have this, it's really, it's really bad. I mean, it's, it's just tough. It's tough. And, you know, there's always miracles. And I want to be careful how we say this because somebody listening may be suffering from this. And I just want a little side note. There is data to show that when you lose hope, you also lose. Your survival rate also goes down. So be careful when you go and you get a terminal prognosis. There are some studies that suggest. And when you talk to surgeons and doctors to tell you this, when people are like, that's it, I'm going to die, they tend to die. So even if you have this prognosis, there is a chance of survival, but nonetheless, it's very aggressive. It's, it's, it's a bad one. The people who had a regular diet, their three year survival rate was 8%. So the people who just ate normal 8, 8% of them made it three years. People on a ketogenic diet, 66%.

[Adam Schaefer]

Wow.

[Justin Andrews]

That is a massive.

[Adam Schaefer]

So there's two, there's two big things happening there. Because like you just said before, you, before you said that stat. I've experienced firsthand with my family that has suffered from cancer. And I've seen clear differences between the family members who got it and instantly began to fight. Instantly began to change diet and habits and do their own research and doing everything they can to prolong or Potentially reverse. And then I've had other family members that would say things like, I've had a good run, you know, and it was a good time. Like, yeah. Kind of threw in the towel about it. And even if they said they kind of weren't, they kind of, like, mentally, you could just see it. You could see that they were, and there was a huge difference. So I think what you're highlighting is not only obviously what the diet can do, but also the mentality. Back to your original point is those are the people that are like, you know, to go on a ketogenic diet is a radical diet. That's not like, yeah, hey, eat about. You know what I'm saying?

[Doug]

That's not like structure.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

They know they're doing something.

[Adam Schaefer]

Oh, yeah, That's a strict diet. Very strict diet.

[Justin Andrews]

Especially one for cancer.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

This is a traditional ketogenic diet. The clinical, it's like moderate to low protein, no carbs. Like, you even cut out carbs in your toothpaste carbs. Like, nothing high fat.

[Adam Schaefer]

And you also got to keep in mind those people, if you've been. Let's say you have been with people like that, like, man, their. Their cravings and appetite, you know, is always up and down and depending if they're doing chemo or not, throws. So it's challenging to. From what I've seen, very challenging to follow a strict diet. So you've got somebody there who is not only following the optimal diet for that, but also is fighting.

[Justin Andrews]

That cares 66%, though. I mean, the diet played a big role in that. And I, you know, it's. It's pretty remarkable. This is flying because you. You rarely ever see a dietary intervention with cancer, at least in a study that shows this. Now, the reason why this is such a big deal. It wasn't a huge study. The reason why it was such a big deal is it follows along with what. There's a lot of doctors and individuals who have said this, especially about brain cancers in particular. And a lot. It's just, look, here's the deal. Like, cancers in general, not all of them. So this isn't 100% true. There is a group of people that will say that. What's called the war. I think it's the Warburg effect, if I'm not mistaken. Maybe Doug looked that up, so I know I'm not saying it wrong. Cancers aggressively consume carbohydrates and sugars aggressively and starving them of those. And going ketogenic often slows down or can kill growth. It's the Warburg effect. Yeah. It's a metabolic phenomena observed in many cancer cells where they prevent preferentially use glycolysis to generate energy even in the presence of oxygen. So going ketogenic can kill or weaken some of these cells. It seems to be particularly true for brain. For the brain cancers. Um, so it's, it's pretty remarkable. But then again, back to the other point. Like I used to train a lot of surgeons that worked with people who. And you know, God bless them, man, what a tough job. They would come and tell me stories. It's like I don't know how you do it, but they will, they would like no joke, at least five of them. This topic would come up and they'd say oh, I could tell when a person gives up that it's that they're. They're in. Their health will decline. I said really? You really think that that's why that because they gave up? And they said absolutely. These were like logical science based thoughts.

[Adam Schaefer]

Don't you feel like it's very similar to what you. We've seen too. And most people can relate to this where they've seen a. A family member who has lost a spouse that they've been married to for 50 years or whatever like that. Like they've. Yeah. Their whole life.

[Doug]

Rapid decline.

[Justin Andrews]

Their health goes down fast.

[Adam Schaefer]

Super fast. Super fast.

[Doug]

Definitely something too. I mean we had Dr. Roy von Tong Tanma.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah.

[Doug]

You pronounce his name just. And it all resonated with me because it's. It's just the presentation of like, you know, a positive outlook versus a negative outlook from the very beginning of it. It's like you're. You're trying to you know, organize all your efforts around it. It's like it's going to determine a lot. Like your psychology going into. It's going to determine a lot.

[Adam Schaefer]

You know I, I've thought about it because I've been around like how I would be and obviously the, the easy thing to say is like oh, I would be this way. But you always wonder.

[Doug]

You never know.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah, you wonder. You always wonder like if you got hit with like news would you be the same fiery person who attacks like how you attack everything in your else in your life or would all sudden that totally.

[Justin Andrews]

I've seen it a few times where. I've seen it where they fight but then because the cancer starts to get aggressive, they start to. It. It gets nasty, dude. It gets really tough and really nasty treatment. I had someone really close to me who was very. She Was very Christian. She had a very strong faith, and I'd never seen anybody with maintain that level of faith and grace. I mean, her. She was terminal. I mean, she shouldn't have made it four months. She made it a year and a half. And I used to. When I used to own my studio, she would come in and I trained her. She was family. And she'd come in and, you know, hair falling out from chemo and, you know, she'd get ascites, where all this fluid retention in her midsection cause all this pain. And she would always come in and she would ask everybody how they were doing, and she had this. And she. She changed the lives of everybody around her. Even though it took her life, it took a while, but she changed the line. I'd never seen anything like that. It was really, really incredible. So. Yeah, but you're right. Like, in that position, what would you.

[Adam Schaefer]

I know it's easy to say when you're not. When you're not. Oh, I would do this stuff. But then getting hit with that news is totally different.

[Justin Andrews]

I know. Crazy. Speaking of diet, so your fat jokes have gotten to me. Adam.

[Adam Schaefer]

Hey, bro, I saw your Max Lugavir video that's going viral right now, and I'm like, bro, you. You were looking like Jordan Peterson video.

[Justin Andrews]

I know, dude. You know what? So here's.

[Adam Schaefer]

Here's camera adds 10 pounds. Direct me to the face.

[Justin Andrews]

Give me the way. Hey, can we switch to the camera? That takes.

[Doug]

Dude, for all the.

[Adam Schaefer]

You know, it's funny because I guess maybe this one is like shooting you straight on so it doesn't. But. And then when you go to. When you go to others, when you go sideways. Yeah, I think it has something to do with that.

[Justin Andrews]

You know what it is? So here's the problem. Here's my challenge, right? My challenge is I always deal on and off. I deal with gut health issues. And what's happened is. And I've talked about this before, my gut health has become this wonderful barrier, or should I say it controls how I eat and how I feed myself.

[Adam Schaefer]

And it really is natural, Natural regulator for you.

[Justin Andrews]

It's a natural checks and balances. My tendency is trying to get as big as possible. I have this. It's still a mental illness that I have with that. Just get as big as possible. But my gut health stops it. It's like a gift from God. Now I see it. I'm like, okay, I know why you gave me these gut issues. He's like, no, no, no, we're not going to Keep you from killing yourself by trying to get too big. And you know what's gonna happen is you push your calories too high or eat all these foods, you'll get gut issues. It'll take you back. So that's always it. But whenever my gut health is really good, then I tend to go off and I push it and I get bigger and I feel stronger and, oh, I like it. And I keep going. And I just went too far, dude. I'm like, so far. We went to Hawaii, we went on vacation, came back. I'm feeling, like, not good, man. I'm just not feeling good. Except for when I work out and I get pump, and my ego feels great. It's just not feeling good. My sleep is off. And, you know, it's like, this is bad. So, you know, it's just my wife, and I'm like, I can't do. This is. My health is not. This is not great. I'm gonna reverse it. So I've been cutting. I've been reversing.

[Adam Schaefer]

Are you.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah.

[Adam Schaefer]

Are you. So this is. This is you coming out to tell the audience so you hold you accountable?

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah, dude.

[Adam Schaefer]

They're gonna ask you. It's so annoying.

[Justin Andrews]

I'm walking around.

[Adam Schaefer]

That's what everybody does here. Do you know that right now we all wait. We all wait to say anything out loud. You know what I'm saying? And then once we say out loud, you know that you have to, like. Because it's like. It's not just. It's one thing to tell your friend or tell someone else. It's another thing to announce it on a damn show. Everybody's gonna be careful.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah.

[Doug]

What you leak out, it's like, oh, now you're bound to that.

[Justin Andrews]

I'm walking around like. Like around 230, which is like the heaviest that I ever come up.

[Adam Schaefer]

And you're.

[Justin Andrews]

And I'm not built like Justin.

[Doug]

I like you being heavier.

[Justin Andrews]

I'm not like Justin. Justin carries size. Well, he's a boy.

[Adam Schaefer]

He's husky.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah, I'm not like that. So 230 for me is like, you know, it's like if Justin was like, 260.

[Adam Schaefer]

No, you and I, you. You and I are like. We're supposed to be like 190.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah, dude. We're supposed to calm down. I'm not going down that far.

[Adam Schaefer]

I think you're supposed to.

[Justin Andrews]

I would feel great.

[Adam Schaefer]

You're supposed to be like, 190. I'm supposed to be like, 200 flat. That's where we're supposed to be. I'm pretty sure I'm not going that far.

[Justin Andrews]

Don't worry, dude. What an idea.

[Doug]

That's going to get back to, like.

[Adam Schaefer]

You know what? I'm. I'm really excited about what we're starting today. Today we start. Actually, this will. When this goes live, it'll have already started. But, you know, we. We had a. We had a really good time helping the GLP1 group out. It was, you know, we. We all are trainers by heart. And even though we get a taste of that, being on the podcast and sharing our experiences and wisdom with people, it's still not the same as, like, coaching people one on one. And so I really enjoyed the GLP1 group that we got to be a part of, especially considering that I thought this would. I thought it would be challenging. Right. I think we all like a challenge. We've trained almost every kind of person you could think of.

[Justin Andrews]

And so there's a part of me too, that misses training people.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah. Yeah. So that was cool. And I, you know, it was. We weren't sure. What we were more concerned about was, you know, how would. How would we be able. Would we really be able to help in a group and would people really feel like they got a lot of value from it? And it was just. It was an incredible response. We had an incredible response from it. Everybody loved it. So we're going to try something new this time, which is not a specific group like GLP1, but like more general, which is Maps Transformation is now live, which is inspired by the journey that I took to get back and thought what a great, like, group training to do with everybody is. This transformation process, if you've fallen off and you're getting back in the swing of things to take these people through. So Kyle and the training team is going to be taking a group of 50 through. So we. We limited it. So for people that are listening, wondering if they hadn't heard about it or whatever, it's like we.

[Justin Andrews]

We. It's already gone.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah, we already. We already went with it. We. And if we might do it again if we do. It sells out fast. This one sold out quick. And so excited for that. The boys and I will drop in. We. We're going to launch it today. We'll be in there and then we'll will be in and out of it with them. Really wanted to see our training staff and this training team that we have now take these people through it. So I'm super excited.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah. And the program Transformers is just. It's it's flying. It's more of a popular program. Right. GLP1 is very specific.

[Doug]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

This is a program I think a lot of people identify with and, and a lot of people are. It's cool. I can't wait to see some of the before and afters that people get through that 90 day process.

[Doug]

I think there's just been a lot of that, like, oh man, I, I really should get back to it. And you know, that sort of him and Han and it's, it's one of those, that kind of presents an opportunity and then that group is great because it's like, you know, you're going to have all this momentum. You want the accountability with it as well. It's really helpful. But also too, the psychological help to like, not overdo it.

[Adam Schaefer]

Well, it was a bit of an aha moment for myself talking again about the accountability of, of putting it out there on the Internet when we did the, when I did the transformation coming back. You know, we've openly talked on the show many times about how we tend to overreach. I don't care how long we've been doing this, how much knowledge we have. If we have a tendency to do anything, it's to overreach, especially when you've taken somewhat of a break, if you've fallen off a little bit.

[Doug]

It's just human nature.

[Adam Schaefer]

It is human nature. And I don't care how experienced you are or not, we even have a bad habit of doing that. And so when I was being, being documented through this whole process, I had this like, pressure of like, okay, I gotta not do what my tendency is. I need to do what I teach and what I tell people so people the world can see. And then of course, had incredible results. Like, you know what, it makes sense for us to create something like this because I can't be the only person who falls off for a month or two and then comes back on. And then when they come back, they tend to hop right into way more than they need to. And so it's the perfect segue to get somebody back into shape. And so I'm excited too, to see how many people use it that way and follow it, follow it the way it's laid out. Don't overdo it. Trust the process. If you've taken more than a couple weeks off and you're back in the swing of things following that program and.

[Doug]

Watch what happens, watch your timeline shrink in terms of getting those results. That's the thing that trips people out.

[Adam Schaefer]

Totally.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah, I gotta Ask you guys a question. So as man, as grown man, how many times in your life have you been approached by other man and told you have really nice skin? Is that something ever happens to you? Zero.

[Doug]

That's a sal.

[Adam Schaefer]

Unique.

[Justin Andrews]

This is weird. It's happened. It happened to me twice recently.

[Doug]

Wow.

[Justin Andrews]

Two times I had. Yeah. One.

[Doug]

One of my friends touch you at the same time?

[Justin Andrews]

No. So one of them was a friend of mine, which is. That's cool. Still kind of weird, but whatever. He's like, you know, you got really good skin, you know, especially for your age or whatever. So I'm. Oh, thank you very much. And then I had someone randomly tell me that I had good skin. Yeah. I'm like, this is weird.

[Adam Schaefer]

Shout out to Caldera.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah.

[Adam Schaefer]

For bringing it. Huh.

[Justin Andrews]

Caldera lab does it. I mean, it's got to be that shiny and yeah. It's got to be new.

[Adam Schaefer]

I mean it gives me that sheen.

[Justin Andrews]

I don't know.

[Adam Schaefer]

I have. I have from family that. Because family that sees me and that's. I tell them all the time. That is.

[Justin Andrews]

They say your skin looks. Yeah.

[Adam Schaefer]

I've had. I've had. Okay. I've been. I've been super consistent with it too though.

[Justin Andrews]

Are you doing the cream and the oil?

[Adam Schaefer]

Always, Always cream oil. Yeah. I do the. I do the. The base layer with the serum and then I use their soap. Their soap. We don't talk a lot about their soap. I know I went off on it when I. When we first got it.

[Justin Andrews]

Like the suds.

[Adam Schaefer]

I just. It's a lather. I don't know, like soap.

[Justin Andrews]

You're. You love so well.

[Adam Schaefer]

Okay. So there's a lot of like organic, natural brands of soap out there that you can get. And one of the reasons why I always go away and go back to my chemical. My chemical based soap all over myself is because there's something about the lather there. I just need.

[Justin Andrews]

That's a fact. They know this.

[Adam Schaefer]

It's just like.

[Doug]

It's like same with toothpaste.

[Adam Schaefer]

It is like toothpaste. It's just like that. So if you gave me toothpaste that didn't set up. I've just too conditioned. We are. I'm like, whatever. I could be.

[Justin Andrews]

Caldera lab, though, did it without chemicals.

[Adam Schaefer]

That's why it's so. That's why I'm so impressed. And not only that, it's better than any chemical based soap I've ever had. That lather. So it doesn't just lather good for natural soap. It lather is good compared to anything else on the market. So they sold me right away with that.

[Justin Andrews]

Hey, I'm change subject. Did you guys see? Maybe you did. Justin, you're into this. Okay, did you see what happened when an AI called another AI?

[Doug]

Yes. Oh, God, I did see that video. Yeah. So they were calling each other to make, like, hotel reservations.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah. So they didn't know they were AI. So one called to book a restaurant, the other AI is helping them book a restaurant.

[Doug]

Yeah. And so they. And then they figured out is like, oh, by the way, I'm an AI assistant. And then the other one was like, oh, why don't we make this conversation more efficient? And then they started talking in some weird, like, digital languages.

[Justin Andrews]

Like, they started talking and they realized they were talking to AI, and then they switched to, like, some secret language to book.

[Adam Schaefer]

Dude, did you guys see what. Did you see what Danny said this morning? No, you didn't.

[Justin Andrews]

Oh, I did.

[Adam Schaefer]

Oh, with the doctor, the influencer.

[Justin Andrews]

Yes, it was a doctor. 800,000 followers, bro. I'm a doctor. And here's what makes your book look good. I'm a.it was AI, not even real.

[Doug]

And I was like, oh, my God, I've seen this. And before that, it was like she was pitching that she used to be a Victoria's Secret model. And here's all my secret hacks. And like, here's all the, you know, you name off all of these, like, herbal, you know, like, food that she ate only. Yeah, yeah. All these things, like, exotic things that she did in her diet and all the stuff. And really just to sell supplements.

[Adam Schaefer]

All linked to Amazon.

[Doug]

All linked.

[Adam Schaefer]

All linked. I mean, imagine if you're. I mean, Amazon. Amazon has to be making those. I mean, right? It would. If you're.

[Justin Andrews]

It's got to be the company selling the products.

[Adam Schaefer]

No, not necessarily.

[Justin Andrews]

Not somebody who has an account, maybe.

[Adam Schaefer]

No.

[Justin Andrews]

Or.

[Adam Schaefer]

Or. I mean, what stops a normal independent person selling. Yeah, an independent person to make an AI boss. That gives you a 10 or 15% kickback on all these Amazon products.

[Justin Andrews]

I think the age of influencers is limited. And it's going to die soon because companies, very soon. Okay, very soon are going to. Are going to realize with AIs advancing, that they can create an AI influencer. And here's the kicker. People don't need to be tricked. People are going to know it's AI. It's still going to work.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

And they're going to have an AI influencer that's going to get all these followers.

[Doug]

Same thing as Only fans.

[Adam Schaefer]

So.

[Doug]

Okay, so you're going to get all.

[Adam Schaefer]

This naked robots conversation or debate here because I don't think it's going to kill the age of the influencer. I think it's only going to embolden it and what I mean by that. And it's kind of funny that we did this, right? We did put on our podcast Real Human. Yeah.

[Doug]

Real Humans.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah, I did that on purpose, by the way. Yeah. Decipher. Carbon based. We're not perfect influencers.

[Adam Schaefer]

Because I would think that what will happen is people that are. Are real. And you know they're real. You've seen them in a live event, you've met them before, you know what they're like, that you will lean more into taking advice and information from that source because you. It's trusted.

[Doug]

Yeah.

[Adam Schaefer]

Than just someone hot on Instagram. Like, I just think that I disagree.

[Justin Andrews]

I'll tell you what. Here's. Yeah, here's what I think. I. Okay. It's like buy local. There are people that like, I gotta buy local. I look for the sticker. Most people don't give a shit. Most people look at. Yeah. Or organic.

[Adam Schaefer]

How you make that connection. Why is it like buy.

[Justin Andrews]

So there are. So there are.

[Adam Schaefer]

I know, I know. Buy local.

[Justin Andrews]

So there are people who are interested in where it's coming from and who's making it and whatever. And that's a market. But the bigger market by far are people who don't care. They could care less. So we could. You're gonna have people who are like, no, no, I only want to listen to real people. And there's going to be that market still going to exist.

[Adam Schaefer]

Okay.

[Justin Andrews]

The vast majority of people are. They're not going to care.

[Adam Schaefer]

Okay. So you're talking about two different customers. You're talking about a customer that is already looking for something specific. And will they buy from Mind Pump versus buy from the. The AI influencer? Well, they don't care because they're already searching for a product influence. And what the word influencer comes from is the ability to influence people to buy something. That means that person is following that said person who. That person then influences them to purchase something like that.

[Justin Andrews]

That customer AI is going to become.

[Adam Schaefer]

No, no, I don't. I mean, I think right now they are. They're obviously. They're 800 some followers. I think as more people become privy to it, they'll be less likely to just follow somebody on Instagram and they're going to want some sort of proof that this is a real human and have some sort of connection and engagement before they do it. But we're in this time right now where I think, yes, those, those AI bots are going to get away with.

[Doug]

The real people already been failing. Like another. The Bill Gibson story. Like another cancer faker.

[Justin Andrews]

Oh, yeah, that got exposed.

[Adam Schaefer]

You didn't see that.

[Doug]

She's from, like, there's a whole documentary on Netflix Australia.

[Justin Andrews]

Oh, you told me about it. Yeah, she pretended to have brain cancer.

[Doug]

Had like a beautiful Instagram with, like, everything, like, tracking her food. Like, I'm just treating myself with whole natural foods and blah, blah, blah.

[Justin Andrews]

What a scumbag.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah, dude, she made it on to 60 Minutes. Everything she blew. She was like a phenomenon.

[Doug]

So, you know, I don't know, man. I mean, it's, it's, it's, it's interesting because, yeah, like, you look at somebody like that, that's just like completely an evil person. That's, that's, that's, you know, taking money at everybody else's expense and Versus, like an AI. What's the difference at that point?

[Adam Schaefer]

Well, there's definitely not a difference. They're just as bad, actually. This person's worse. AI is just doing what they've been programmed to do. That person is flat.

[Justin Andrews]

I think AI is going to be so good that people are going to follow AI and they're going to like it. And they say, I like this AI influencer. And they give me great advice.

[Adam Schaefer]

See, I think it's going to look like this. And I mean, there's already falling. I love. I think we're an example of this. What are one of the things that you noticed about, like, our most loyal listeners? It will, will tell us that they actually use almost all the products we talk about. And that's because they have a relationship with us. We're trusted, we're authentic. They feel like they built this. And then so it's like, so if the guys recommend this thing, I like, now they get that thing because of the trusted source. So I think that what you'll see in the future is more and more personal brands able to connect themselves to so many products that maybe not even align with what they do. So, you know, like what, like, for example, like, not that I think we're gonna go this direction, but, you know, we could have, you know, bath towels and do things that have nothing to do with health and fitness because they at least trust who we are recommending that product or said thing. And so it becomes more about that than, oh, I think that's the best Towel on the market. Because Mind pump says, I hear what you're saying. You know what I'm saying?

[Justin Andrews]

Let me put it this way then maybe, maybe the influencers who gain influence because that they of the way they look and they're not really presenting tons of value. They're probably going to be gone.

[Adam Schaefer]

Oh yeah. You know, don't you think they were, they were on their way? I mean there was a reason why we trademarked Stay authentic.

[Doug]

Yeah.

[Adam Schaefer]

You know, we believe that I early on when we first moved in the space that oh, this is just a free for all for people and there's so many people being fake.

[Doug]

You're finding out how small of a, you know, amount of people you out there that you really think are authentic. It's like it's pretty crazy and it really is. The whole world as we know it, media, everything has just been this complete facade.

[Justin Andrews]

We're about to see how weird it gets and we're gonna see it pretty soon. Who was it that sent the video in our group thread of the guy that fell in love with his car?

[Adam Schaefer]

I did. Or was it me who said it? I think I said it. Yeah, bro, that's literally.

[Justin Andrews]

That's an extreme example of what's gonna happen when people are homeboy.

[Adam Schaefer]

Just those exhaust pipes is that you think that's a joke? That's real. There's a whole group of people that are like that.

[Justin Andrews]

I know. But there are people right now falling in love with their boyfriends and girlfriends.

[Adam Schaefer]

That's more real, that's more realistic to me when you start.

[Justin Andrews]

Of course.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah. Especially when they're programmed to make you feel good and tell you all these sweet things.

[Justin Andrews]

I was just talking this, I was talking this weekend to a friend of mine about there's so this data came out that shows that. I think I brought this up already, that the decline in Christianity that's happened over the last many decades has finally halted. Looks like it's reversing. And one of the segments of the population that seems to be really returning to it is Gen Z. Young men in particular. And if you go deeper and dig deeper, you know where a lot of them are going. The more structured orthodox versions of Christianity. Orthodox Christianity, Catholicism. So we had this great conversation and my speculation is these young men in Gen Z grew up with Internet pornography. Everything in the face, all the time that they're like, I need some structure.

[Doug]

That's it.

[Justin Andrews]

I need some parameters and some structure, boundaries.

[Doug]

They didn't grow up with, you know.

[Adam Schaefer]

Real rigid, strict male male leadership they're missing male leadership. You know, it's another seeking it. More proof of that, Sal, is how many grifters are out there making men men camps. Yeah, yeah, because you. That. That's a clear indication of the need there. Right? That's why they can get away with making all this money running man camps, you know, for all these beta dudes, because these guys are seeking strong men leaders, and it makes sense that they would go back and probably look towards one of the. One of the most famous strong male leaders in the world ever. And so that would. That would highlight that to me, that that's why you would see that attachment.

[Justin Andrews]

Adam, it makes this case all the time that male depression should be treated differently than female depression, because male depression oftentimes is just a lack of purpose. So you can take a guy who's super depressed, and you give him a. Like, a sense of purpose, and then he just. He's gonna do it. And by the way, if you're a young woman listening right now, this doesn't make sense to you, but if you're a young man right now, you probably got a little excited hearing that. Like, you give a guy a purpose, and he'll drag himself across glass to get to that purpose. And I think the reason why a lot of these young men are moving towards religion, but in particular the more structured orthodox versions, is because it's very disciplined, structured, and it makes them feel like, yes, this is what I need. Because I'm living in a world where I have everything I want pornography. You know, I just tap on my phone and there it is, and I can eat whatever. And I'm being told being a guy is stupid and, like, you know, I don't have anything to. Was that. There was that famous speech on Fight Club where Tyler Durden is like, yeah, we don't have a war to fight. We don't have a. Whatever. A lot of young men love that clip. Because I think a lot of young.

[Doug]

Men, it resonates with them, for sure.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah. What'll be interesting to your point is how quickly it turns because of technology. Right. Historically, we have these. This ebb and flow in society of trendy things or stuff, but it tends to take decades, you know, sometimes even a century for things to come and go through our society. But with the ability for information to travel so fast and social media, it seems that all the trends and the things move much faster. It's like something's hot really quick, and then it's out and it's on the next thing so it'll be interesting when you, you point out this movement that you see in this direction, like how quickly will it shift the other direction? Seems like it'll be a lot faster than in the past.

[Justin Andrews]

I'll speculate. I don't know. Right. But I'll speculate. As someone who's a new Christian, I think if it's only about the discipline and structure, then it'll flip because what will turn into is self righteousness and I'm better than you or shame. But if it turns into a real relationship with Christ, then I think it's going to stick. But if it's bringing people in, that's good because then they have that opportunity.

[Adam Schaefer]

Well, like most, I do think a.

[Justin Andrews]

Lot of young men are just. They are drawn because they're lost, they're anxious, depressed. I'm playing video games, you know, watching porn, I'm eating garbage. I don't have any, whatever. Like I need someone and something to give me a purpose. And that is appealing. It's very appealing to a lot of young men. Digestive enzymes help you break down all that amazing protein that you're eating into digestible, usable amino acids. Mast zymes is the best when it comes to digestive enzymes for people who want to shape and sculpt their body. Helps with digestive issues and it helps you utilize the food you eat to fuel your gains. Go check them out. Go to buyoptimizers.com that's B I O P T I M I Z-E-R S.com mindpump. Use the code mindpump10 and get 10% off. All right, back to the show. This segment of the podcast is brought to you by trainerwebinar.com if you're a trainer or coach or you want to become a trainer or Coach, go to trainerwebinar.com, it's free. Adam and I teach you how to build your business.

[Sal Destefano]

Our first caller is Sarah from Connecticut.

[Justin Andrews]

Hi, Sarah.

[Adam Schaefer]

How you doing, Sarah?

[Justin Andrews]

How can I help you?

[Sarah]

Hi, how you doing?

[Justin Andrews]

Good, how are you?

[Sarah]

I'm doing okay. My question is about the impact of weightlifting on blood tests intended to check for liver function. Last year, my routine blood work showed elevated liver enzymes and in a follow up a few months later, they were even higher. My physician ordered an abdominal ultrasound, which was normal, and decided to do one more round of blood testing. She said if it remained elevated, she was going to refer me to a liver specialist. I did a little research myself and found papers. They didn't find a lot But I found some papers that suggested that muscles, when they're damaged, release the same enzymes that are used to screen for liver damage. There was at least one article that suggested that subjects being tested for clinical trials should stop weight training for a week before blood tests so that the presence of these enzymes don't unnecessarily disqualify them from clinical trials. So I asked my doctor if I should rest before the third round of testing. She said, just keep doing what you normally do. But I'll be honest, what it was normally doing at the time was probably over training. So I thought, and definitely on the second time that I did blood tests, I had lifted heavy that very morning and then I had blood tests in the afternoon. I think it was the alt that spiked. It went from 30 to 70. So I just decided on my own to rest for just a few days. I didn't take a whole week off, but I rested a few days before my last round of tests and sure enough they dropped back to normal or close to normal. One was just a teeny bit high, but it was just three days that I rested. So I mean, since I sent my question and I found an article that was a little bit more. Was an NIH article, it was more of a health industry article. The others had tended to be like fitness medicine people, but that suggested that intensive muscular exercise, here's a quote here. Intensive muscular exercise should be considered as a cause of asymptomatic elevations in liver function tests in daily clinical practice. My question is mostly back when I sent the question, I wondered if you had experience of this. I had just done the research myself. My doctor had said that's interesting, but let's just do the blood test and you can see a liver specialist if, if it's so high. But even just that little rest seem to drop it right back down. So I wonder if you have experience with this issue coming up or if a different physician might have asked the question or if it really is something that they tend to not take into account when they're. We just interpreting liver tests.

[Adam Schaefer]

We just talked about this, right? We just had. I don't know if it was another live caller or we had conversation on this. I remember the first time this happened to me and it's interesting that more physicians aren't aware of this or they don't tell people that because I, I was told the same thing later on found out, oh no, if you work out in the same day, it'll absolutely will affect the test. And so I think this is Just a disconnect with our physicians and understanding how the, How a workout can impact these, These tests.

[Justin Andrews]

Really, Sarah, I, We. I tend to recommend when I would work with clients or even, you know, callers, find a doctor that's fit, that strength trains, because otherwise they're not really, as you experienced, trained in this. Now, if you went to a liver specialist, they would. They would know this.

[Sarah]

That's what I figured. But it seems like why have an unnecessary appointment? It was so easy to just.

[Justin Andrews]

You're right. Yeah. Yeah.

[Sarah]

This paper was from 2007, and it said it has long been known.

[Adam Schaefer]

Well understood.

[Justin Andrews]

It's well understood. So what they're measuring, when you look at ast, lt, lt, ck, bun, even what you're looking. What you're looking at is these are signs of tissue damage. So what they could show is liver damage. They could show heart damage. Any kind of tissue damage can elevate this, including the damage caused by. By exercise or strength training. Now, the other part that you want to pay attention to is if you're getting these really high spikes, which, you know, the numbers you sent your. The second one was a little high. Your. I think it was your AST that, you know, that's pretty out of range. I think you're, you know, 33 is.

[Sarah]

In the 30s, I think.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah. So that might indicate that you're just going too hard. Okay. That you weren't. Yeah. So. So when I would have clients that would get, like, really out there, numbers, then, you know, okay, we might be training a little too hard, or maybe that run you did on your own was a little too difficult, but other than that, no, you're totally fine. So next time you get one of these tests, let your doctor know, hey, by the way, I do pretty strenuous exercise, so they can know ahead of time when they look at, you know, your test. And part of the reason why most general practitioners are not really well versed in this. Well, number one, they don't tend to exercise themselves. They tend to fall in the same category, same general activity, you know, levels as the general population, but also because the vast majority of people they work with, if they see levels of liver enzymes elevated and ck, that's not because they worked out. It's because there's something underlying. And so they're trained to look for those other things and not consider that the person might have worked out. But yeah, I mean, the fact that you. You stopped working out for a few days and numbers went back down to normal, I mean, you. You've solved it you solved the.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

The problem yourself. Yeah.

[Sarah]

Okay, well, thank you.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah, you got it. Sarah, what pro. Are you following any of our programs?

[Sarah]

I'm not following any of your programs.

[Justin Andrews]

No.

[Sarah]

I'm working with a. I work with a trainer, but I just started listening to you guys a few months ago.

[Adam Schaefer]

Okay. Welcome to the family.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah, well, working with the trainer, you should be trained. They should be training you appropriately.

[Adam Schaefer]

You know what I'll do, Sarah, I'd love to do for you is let. Let Doug put you in our free. It will put you in our forum for free. So you have access now. You have. That way you wouldn't have to wait for this. You could just post in there and tag one of us and then we could have this conversation with you inside the forum.

[Justin Andrews]

Totally.

[Sarah]

I appreciate it. Thank you.

[Justin Andrews]

You got it.

[Adam Schaefer]

All right, Sarah, thank you.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah, this. This to me can be very frustrating.

[Adam Schaefer]

We just talked about this.

[Justin Andrews]

We did. And it's frustrating because the average person will become alarmed. Yeah.

[Adam Schaefer]

Oh, yeah.

[Doug]

That's very.

[Adam Schaefer]

I was alarmed. I was alarmed like, I'm healthy.

[Doug]

What is this?

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I was. I was alarmed the first time you got to.

[Justin Andrews]

You know, people need to understand.

[Adam Schaefer]

And I actually told my doctor that I. And they still didn't know. They didn't even make register. Yeah, didn't register at all.

[Justin Andrews]

And I'm not trying to speak ill of doctors. Doctors are people and they work with a lot of people. And most people don't exercise.

[Doug]

The high majority.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah, so. So they're not. Why would they know this?

[Adam Schaefer]

Not only that, they also have to lean on the extra cautious side. And you would never tell somebody with their blood work coming back like that, oh, you're probably okay.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah.

[Adam Schaefer]

Just because they look fit or they exercise, they're always going to lean on the. Because they'd be in way more trouble telling someone to go get more, further tests, run more tests than they would be.

[Justin Andrews]

This is how bad. This is how bad it is. If you get insurance, life insurance, and you do this test, they don't give a. They don't care. Typically, if you work out, you just stop working out for a week. Because if they see slight elevations, you can tell them all day long you lift weights.

[Doug]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

They. It'll make your premiums like. Yeah, so. So you gotta have to stop. BMI is another one that people tend to get into trouble with.

[Doug]

Like, they gotta hit on that.

[Justin Andrews]

Everyone in this room, all of our BMIs would put us in the overweight or obese category. Super obese because of the amount, because we weigh a lot, because we have a lot more muscle mass, which doesn't put us in the overweight category of health issues. So, yeah, it can be a bit challenging. So if you're fit and healthy, you got to know this stuff and prepare yourself.

[Sal Destefano]

Our next caller is Tasia from Canada.

[Justin Andrews]

Teja, what's happening?

[Adam Schaefer]

Good morning.

[Justin Andrews]

How are you?

[Tasia]

I just want to start off by saying thank you for having me on show. It kind of feels unreal. I will begin by reading my question just to make it easy for Everybody. So I'm five two and I'm currently 130 pounds. When I started my fitness journey, I was 150. And growing up, I was always active and playing numerous sports, so losing weight initially came easy for me. I dropped 20 pounds within the first three months, but hit a hard plateau. And around that time I started listening to your podcast, which motivated me to check out your website and purchase a Match Maps program. Not knowing where to start, I used the live chat and spoke with Margaret, which she is awesome by the way. She suggested that I reverse diet and recommended the RGB program. I purchased it and since then I've also purchased Muscle Mommy program, which I'm running now. But when I wrote the question, I was running it. Sorry. And now I'm. I'm finished it. And I've also purchased Maps 15. Initially, I was too nervous to reverse diet, but after listening to you guys and learning more about its benefits, I finally increased my calories from 1800 to 2500. I am now at 2800 since writing. Yeah, and I. However, I've noticed some digestive issues since bumping my calories. So my first question is, what foods would you recommend eating during a bulk to avoid digestive discomfort? And then my second question is actually about lifting heavy because I do like to challenge myself and lift heavy, but I've noticed that my grip strength isn't very strong and when I lift heavy, my hands start to hurt and cramp. So do you have any advice for improving grip strength?

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah. Good job, by the way. So let me just. So going from 18 to 28, lifting heavy, you probably saw some serious strength gains.

[Tasia]

Oh, yeah, I feel great. My sleep is better and I. I can't believe it took me this long to reverse diet, but I'm so glad I did.

[Justin Andrews]

That's awesome. So what. What lifts or exercises are you noticing? Is it deadlifts that you notice the big issue with your hands or just when you're holding on to heavy weights?

[Tasia]

Yeah, yeah, deadlifts Specifically, I feel like even like inclined bench press or like bench press too. Sometimes I'll notice that, that, like discomfort in my hands.

[Justin Andrews]

Okay.

[Tasia]

Even curls sometimes, like if it's dumbbell curls, I noticed. And even skull crushers too. Sometimes I'll notice that pressure on my hands.

[Justin Andrews]

Okay. How, what do you, how much are you lifting in your deadlift, they said you're 5 to 130 something. What are you pulling off the ground?

[Tasia]

So I want to say close to. So the, the barbell itself is around 40 pounds, right?

[Justin Andrews]

45.

[Tasia]

Yeah, 45. And then I want to say 50 on each side. So that's like 145.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah. You're doing great.

[Tasia]

Sometimes I could, I, sometimes I, I could lift heavier, but I feel like I'm, I'm, I'm not able to because of my grip strength.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah.

[Tasia]

And I also feel like I do have some issues in my back. So right now, I'm actually not lifting right now because I hurt my back. So I'm trying to have that heel first.

[Justin Andrews]

So I'll give you a couple pieces of advice. First off, this is normal because you're tiny, you're small, and you're lifting a lot of weight and your strength went up very quickly. So you have this rapid ramp up of strength. You're small, petite, you probably have small hands. You're going to notice some issues with that. And then you mentioned back issues. So what I would recommend someone like you, who saw these and you're an ex athlete, so reverse diet, strength training. Ex athlete. Your strength probably shot up very quickly. So what I would have you do is stay with lighter weight and slow the tempo down and just perfect your form for a little while. Because the strength gains came on so fast and furious that what you may notice now are some issues with technique and form. And it may be just a small deviation, but because the strength gains came so quickly, the small deviations can start to cause issues. Okay, So I would have you practice your lifts when you feel really strong, rather than adding weight to the bar, slow the reps down. So if you're, you know, you're pressing £100 and you're like, oh, my God, I think I could go 115. Don't go to 115, stay at 100 and then make the 100 feel like 115 with slower reps. And I'd want you to do that for at least a month with all of your lifts to allow your body to acclimate to some of those gains. You were going to say something yeah.

[Tasia]

And I've heard you guys say that this before on your podcast, and this is what I plan on doing after my. I heal from this back injury, but it's just so hard for me because I like to push myself. And I'm like, I grew up with all brothers, and, like, I'm. I'm. I consider myself strong. So it's definitely difficult to lift light, but I'm going to definitely try that once I start lifting again after this recovery.

[Adam Schaefer]

You don't. You don't actually necessarily have to go. Go light, per se, as much as you just don't need to keep pushing the weight.

[Justin Andrews]

Exactly.

[Adam Schaefer]

So when I have a client like you who, who's doing this good and you've gotten this. This strong already, the fact that your hands are the limiting factor is okay. I mean, that's normal. And you. You got a really. You probably have really strong legs, hips, and back and that. So that weight came up really quick. Now, the limiting factor is your hands. They'll come up, too, just if you continue just to do those lifts and not try and push the weight, allow them to be the limiting factor. This strength from deadlifting consistently, especially if you start to slow the tempo down, like Sal is saying, your. Your grip strength will come up and then allow that to be what guides you. Okay, I've now got to a place, and there's things you could do, like when you're deadlifting, let's say you can stay the same weight, but now at the top of the rep, hold on the weight at the top for a few seconds, go back down, hold the weight at the top for a few more. So just. You could even do it like that, where you're not necessarily going lighter, but go to the weight that you can handle and just try to hold onto the bar a little bit longer, and your grip strength will start to come up with that.

[Justin Andrews]

And following this, following this, this process, your strength gains will be better. So, you know you're excited about gaining more strength. Do the way we're saying this is going to give you the strength gains you're looking for. If you keep pushing the weight, then your limiting factor is going to be injury and pain, which you don't want that to be the limiting factor. So this is a really good problem to have. It's a really good problem to have. The other thing I'll say is at the end of your workout, you could always add one set of an isometric hold. And so what you would do is you would get two heavy dumbbells and you would just hold them at your side. You don't have to move. You could just sit there and do like a 30 to 45 second hold. You don't want to go to failure till you drop the weight, but go till you get, you know, you can feel it. Put the dumbbells up. You just add one set. And that typically speeds up the, the hand strengthening process.

[Doug]

Yeah, I was going to mention that. And even doing like farmer carry. But also too, if you're not doing any wrist cars or any kind of like mobility pre workout, like just to get the strength and dexterity with your fingers and your wrists and really kind of like sharpen that and, and it's going to help with the technique as well. When you go to grip the bar, you know, it makes a world of difference. A lot of times the restriction is just, you don't have that mobility right away.

[Adam Schaefer]

I love adding wrist cars into your priming before you start every workout. That's gonna help. I love what Sal's saying with adding that. And then I'm gonna add one more thing. I'm gonna have Doug send you Map symmetry. I think you would benefit from a round of that going back to like, you've gone through rgb, you've got our Muscle Mommy. You've progressed really, really well. Now I'd take you to something like Map Symmetry for a cycle. And then when you come back to say Muscle mommy or Anabolic or one of those programs again, you should see improvement in strength from that also.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah. Now one, one, one last thing. You could also try using chalk. If your gym doesn't allow chalk, use liquid chalk. It's really cheap. You can buy it on Amazon or anywhere.

[Adam Schaefer]

Oh, that'll make a big difference.

[Justin Andrews]

And that usually helps a lot. I use chalk with every workout.

[Adam Schaefer]

Have you, have you tried switch grip? Have you tried using chalk yet?

[Tasia]

No, but I wear gloves that have grip.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah, but chalk will be no way better. Yeah. Oh, chalk. You'll. You'll be able to add 10, 10 to 20 pounds more just by chalking up or liquid chalk.

[Justin Andrews]

So gloves actually increase the circumference of the bar bar through the fabric and actually make it harder to grip.

[Tasia]

Oh, really?

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah. So it's like, it's like you're making the bar a little thicker, which makes it harder. So chalk up your hands. Use your bare hands and you'll probably have a better grip. And then let's talk about diet here. You know, 2800 calories for someone your size is phenomenal.

[Adam Schaefer]

Oh, yeah, we didn't get into digestion.

[Justin Andrews]

The first place I would look are common food intolerances, which tend to be gluten, dairy, eggs, legumes. But let me ask you this. Have you identified any food foods that tend to bother you digestively?

[Tasia]

So this is, this is the issue.

[Adam Schaefer]

Right?

[Tasia]

So I. I listen to your show religiously. So I eat ground beef, white rice, whole eggs, Greek yogurt. And it's not necessarily what I eat. I think it's because I'm eating so much. And then also I eat a lot of protein. So I eat almost 160 grams of protein in whole foods. Like, I don't have any shakes. And it sounds insane, insane, but I love protein. So I'm wondering if it has to do with something along those lines. But I don't know.

[Adam Schaefer]

Go on a mini cut. Go on a mini cut. Run a run, a little cut now. I mean, this is. This is what I love. If I'm training a client like you, you're at a place I just. You, I love for you to get. You're now at a place. You're like, Adam, this is so much food. I'm eating all day, and I'm like, great, let's cut a meal out. Let's cut a meal out in the day somewhere, and then let's see what happens. And run. I'll run a little mini cut for two or three weeks with you and see if you notice an improvement. Digestion, notice if you lean out, notice if you're able to maintain the strength. You feel better just about the amount of food you're eating. So you're now in such a great place, eating 2800 calories. We could easily drop down to 24, you know, or 23 even, and probably.

[Justin Andrews]

Give your digestion a break.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah, give it a little bit of a break, lean out a bit, and then hopefully also still be able to maintain strength. So that would be what I would recommend and see what happens from that.

[Justin Andrews]

Another thing you can look at is typically when protein goes up, fiber requirements go up as well. So you could look at psyllium husk. Psyllium husk is a very easy fiber. You could take a few capsules with each meal to help with the digestive process as well and see how that works. But I like what Adam said. I think a mini cut is, I mean, 2,800 calories at your size.

[Adam Schaefer]

That's a lot of food.

[Justin Andrews]

You're. You're crushing. Yeah, you go, you drop down to 24, you're probably not going to lose Strength, you'll probably just see yourself get leaner.

[Tasia]

And then that brings me, like, if it's okay, can I ask one more question?

[Doug]

Sure.

[Tasia]

So I'm. I've been bulking since November of last year, so it's been a slow bulk. So I didn't start off with 28, obviously. I worked my way up, and now I want to cut for the summer. So how would I do that? Would I initially just, like Adam just said, just go down to 2400 and just maintain it through summer? Or, like, I don't know, like, how to navigate through the next steps?

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah, no, good, good, Good question. I would go down to 24. I would stay there for three or four weeks. I would go up to 25 for a week, then I'd go down to 23, and I would do that step ladder approach until you're pretty happy. I would not bring your calories below where you started at 1800, though. So once you get down to 1800, then regardless of what body fat percentage you're at or whatever, which I think you'll be pretty happy with, then I would reverse you.

[Adam Schaefer]

And then once you get to a place where your digestion is good, you feel like you're eating a sustainable amount of food, your energy, and like, you feel like, man, this is a great place, then don't actually overthink it and just kind of let the calories naturally undulate. So some. So let's say some days you're a little bit hungrier, and so you ended up eating 2, 800 calories. Other days you weren't as hungry. You only ate 2200 calories. Then some days it was kind of in the middle. So allow yourself to have that much flexibility. When you. When you're at a very healthy place metabolically like you are now, you can have a lot of play in, like a lower. Like a low day for you is 2, 000 calories, which is higher than where you started, which is incredible. So you can have days that you eat as low as 2, 000 calories and then have other days that are as high as 2800 and allow your body to just organically tell you when to have higher days and lower days based off how you feel. And, and, and then that should keep you in a very good place aesthetically, strength wise, energy wise. And that's kind of where you want to hover, unless we're trying to make moves. And then you come to me and you say, adam, I really want to push strength, and let's build Some more muscle. Okay, well, then maybe go on a mini bulk for a while. Or you go, man, it's almost summertime, Adam. I want to look shredded. I want to see my abs. And so maybe we cut for a while. But if you're at a place where you're very happy with your physique and strength and kind of you're not, allow the body to just kind of naturally lead you into undulating those calories every day.

[Tasia]

Yeah, that makes sense. Well, thank you, guys. I feel like I know it, but I just need to hear it.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah, yeah, you're on. You're doing great.

[Adam Schaefer]

You're doing great. You're doing great.

[Tasia]

Thanks, thanks.

[Justin Andrews]

And we'll send you symmetry. Okay.

[Tasia]

All right, well, have a good day, and thanks for having me on again.

[Adam Schaefer]

You.

[Justin Andrews]

Thank you. Bye. You know, I'd like to just point out I'm going to always do this whenever this happens, because it annoys the hell out of me. I'm going to point out.

[Adam Schaefer]

I know that.

[Doug]

Here's another example.

[Justin Andrews]

All right, look, according to the Internet door. Let me pull my phone here.

[Adam Schaefer]

Can the editing team please. I know we've talked about these as gifts. No, we wanted to start posting these on Instagram and sharing this with our community. We need to do this more often. That way that all the Instagram people you're about to talk about. See, this shit will battle in life.

[Justin Andrews]

I would like for the Internet dorks and, you know, adding a pound of muscle only burns an extra 5 to 8 calories. She's eating a thousand more calories a day. A thousand more calories a day. According to their math, she would have gained. What is that? She would have gained? How many. How many pounds?

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

Of muscle? 20 pounds of muscle. So I don't think she gained 20 pounds of muscle.

[Adam Schaefer]

No.

[Justin Andrews]

Her metabolism went through the roof, and she probably gained something like five to seven pounds of muscle. How do you figure that math out, Internet dorks?

[Adam Schaefer]

Yep.

[Justin Andrews]

I'll tell you. You don't know what it is. You don't understand human metabolism. Nobody fully understands it. But reverse dieting, when applied properly, it freaking works. And this is more example.

[Sal Destefano]

Our next caller is Heath from Kansas.

[Justin Andrews]

What's up, Heath?

[Adam Schaefer]

How you doing, Heath?

[Doug]

What's happening?

[Heath]

Hi, guys. How are you?

[Justin Andrews]

Good, good. How can we help you?

[Heath]

Well, so my question is on hypermobility. In December, I ran into a girl I used to train. I. I worked as a trainer at a big box gym about 12, 13 years ago. I ran into her a couple months ago, and we got to talking. She. Back in her, in her 20s she didn't have as much of an issue. But the last decade she's really been having the hypermobility issues in addition to an autoimmune disease, which I was almost wondering if there was any correlation there. But overall like you know, the, the typical stuff with, with a hypermobile person, issues with their knees, your shoulders or hips. She's seen some other fitness professionals and she's had some run ins with different physical therapists but she's, she just hasn't gotten many answers from them on, on losing weight, on gaining muscle. So I, I really wanted your guys input on if you had any clients that you know with similar issues. Any advice you'd offer, any suggestions on someone like that not trained as heavy and then just go from there.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah. What's the autoimmune condition?

[Heath]

She talked more like it was. She's had a lot of intestinal distress over the years. She's really had to try to fine tune what she's eaten. And I don't know a whole lot of details because we talked more about her issues with not being able to gain strength. But I, I think it's been more focused around, I mean having IBS and other, other issues with pain throughout the body and all that.

[Justin Andrews]

There could be a connection if there's an issue with her connective tissues which would, which would affect both. So I would, I would try and get deeper with that. But nonetheless I have a lot of experience with hypermobility. The your friend. As a trainer, your number one tool for any hypermobility is isometrics.

[Doug]

Yes, indeed.

[Justin Andrews]

Isometrics is your most effective method for strengthening or opposing or countering the hypermobility that she deals with. So if you train her for an hour, you're literally doing 25 to 30 minutes of isometrics and then 20 minutes of traditional strength training. The strength training is slow, controlled and it's within a controlled range of motion. Do not have her train in her full range of motion, but actually have her stop her reps within what you would consider a decent range of motion. In other words, you have some with hypermobility, they could probably sit all the way down on a squat. With a normal person, that's fine. Not with her. With her, I would have her stop her squat just below parallel. I would have her stop her shoulder press where her dumbbells aren't, all the way down to her shoulders, but just above it type of deal. But the beginning of your workouts and on her own, I would have her do lots of isometrics. It says here in your question that she's. There's a lot of hypermobility or metatarsals of her feet, so things like short foot lifting, big toe, pressing big toe down, like isometrics are going to be. And I would. I would give her two or three movements to do two or three times a day for like a minute or two. And then when you see her, you're literally doing isometrics for the whole body. All right, Isometrics for glutes, isometrics for hams, isometrics for quads, and you're moving through. And remember, with isometrics, you have a range of motion. You can do them. It's not just in fully, you know, shortened, but. And you could do against, you know, an immovable object. You could do the kind that are yielding.

[Doug]

That would actually be. Yeah. I mean, the best in terms of her being able to push against the rack or pull against the rack and just. And you. You find that range where, you know, there's usually a deficit there, like, she loses a bit of tension. I mean, the thing here is. And there's two. There's things like the dumpy squat. I don't know if you've ever seen us do that in our videos, but it. There's. There's ways and techniques to try to apply, use tools to. To create more tension in these exercises. And really, that's the focus. If she is moving, like, it's very slow, it's very controlled, but. But the whole action is squeeze. And I'd be emphasizing that, like, continuously with every single exercise. So. Yeah, everything Sal said, though, is like, you know, we want to break it individually, like, and compartmentalize each part of the movement and have her kind of stay there and, like, really tense her muscles.

[Adam Schaefer]

Heath, you're. You're a trainer. How long you been listening to the show for?

[Heath]

5 years.

[Adam Schaefer]

Do you have prime and Prime Pro?

[Heath]

No, I do not.

[Adam Schaefer]

Okay, bro, I'm gonna. I'm gonna send you pro prime pro. But you should listen to us for that long. You should. You've probably heard me rail every trainer that does not have those two programs. Okay. You should have those.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah, you're right. Absolutely.

[Adam Schaefer]

I'm gonna send. I'm gonna send you prime pro. Appreciate it so much in there that, I mean, you could literally build the. The first 20 to 30 minutes the guys are talking about. You can pull from there. You can literally pull all the movements from there, and that becomes her first 20 to 30 minutes. Then you Take the exercises that they're talking about. They. To be her back 20 to 30 minutes. But that, right, that, that program alone will help you train her going forward for all the stuff you do before and, and the cues that you hear us queuing in there with Dr. Brink, that's how you want to cue her when you're doing those things. And like Sal said, what you just. Every exercise and movement you do with her, I'm gonna, like you could take, you do all the normal exercises for your back 23 minutes. I'm just going to shorten the range up. Opposite of what we tell most people. Right. I'm going to shorten the range up on her. Still want a good full range of motion, but not her full range of motion. And at the end of the, at the end of the movement, they're. I'm creating an isometric contraction. So in that squat, she's going to come down, like he said, a little bit and then she pause, I pause and hold her there for a good five seconds. Then she comes out of squat. If you're doing the shoulder press, like you said, she's coming down instead of the dumbbells all the way down her shoulders. It stops at her ears and she holds isometric contraction there and it goes back. So you can do a lot of the traditional movements that we train any client on. Shorten the range up, create an isometric contraction at the end of that where you want her to end, and then the priming the first 20, 30 minutes from prime.

[Justin Andrews]

You're not training her muscles as much as you're training her cns. Heath.

[Heath]

That makes sense.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah. The reason why she has trouble developing her muscles is because her CNS isn't firing. Her neural drive is off. So that's what you're training. So every time you train her, don't think muscles, think neural drive. Another tip is if she, I don't know, does she have coffee or caffeine every day?

[Heath]

I wouldn't say daily, but she does use caffeine.

[Justin Andrews]

If she does, I'd have a pre workout just to give you a little boost in that neural drive. So I'd say, hey, save your coffee for before your workout. 30 minutes. That'll help with the neural drive. And then honestly, you can make the whole workout isometrics. You, you just think of an exercise. Think like a leg press, right? You got, you bring the, bring the, bring the platform down, you press it up. This is how you would do it isometrically. You bring it down halfway and hold. And that would Be one set. The next one would be a little lower, and you hold. So you're basically breaking down the full range of motion into three or four isometric contractions. And now you've done a full range of motion leg press. The difference is I've paused at each one, and when she's paused, encourage her to tense up every part of her body so she. Tense up your feet. I want you to grip the platform with your feet. I want you to grip it with your toes. I want you to squeeze the handles. I want you to squeeze everything. And then give her a break and rest. Yeah, she's got to increase neural drive is what she needs, is what she start bilateral.

[Doug]

You keep it all kind of balanced, and then you start doing split stance and, you know, work your way up to the more imbalanced positions. But. But really, that's. That's the progression.

[Heath]

No, that makes. That makes perfect sense. What about nutritional intervention? Do you think taking collagen would be even more important for someone like this Protein in general?

[Justin Andrews]

Collagen in general science. But, yeah, you're looking at neural drive. This is a neural drive issue. This is not an. A muscle issue.

[Adam Schaefer]

Okay.

[Heath]

Now that. That makes. That makes perfect sense. That all makes sense to me. Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

All right.

[Adam Schaefer]

Awesome.

[Justin Andrews]

All right, ma'am.

[Heath]

Excellent.

[Justin Andrews]

You got it.

[Heath]

Well, I appreciate you guys so much. I mean, for. Thank you for all the content you put out. Everything you guys put.

[Justin Andrews]

Every.

[Heath]

Every podcast is so valuable. And, I mean, you guys have changed countless lives with your podcast, and not only are you inspiring in the fitness and nutrition world, but as far as, like, being a good dad, I mean, you guys are just awesome people. So thank you so much for everything you do.

[Adam Schaefer]

Appreciate that, man.

[Justin Andrews]

Appreciate it. I love what you guys do so much. I haven't bought anything. Hey, okay.

[Adam Schaefer]

I'm glad you said it.

[Justin Andrews]

You know what? Hey, look, listen. These clients can be very challenging to work with because it's so opposite.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah, but you know what? If you're. If you're listening and you're a trainer, we have something for everybody for every challenge you've ever had. And if you reach out, you can reach out to us personally, you can reach out to our. Our chat bot that we have where Margaret and them are on there. They'll point you in the right direction of program that you should be. You can literally pull from our. And then once they progress Justin's point, then you move to symmetry. And what does symmetry have for the first two weeks? Isometrics.

[Doug]

Exactly.

[Adam Schaefer]

And then you go into all the Unilateral work. I mean, it's there. We have something for every challenged client.

[Doug]

You'll try to figure out every pain point that we've ever seen.

[Adam Schaefer]

And if you're a trainer and you're listening to this and you do not own prime and Prime Pro, that makes me so angry because it's, there's, there's not a trainer in the world that will not benefit from that. And that those two things you can apply to every client, you should apply. Prime should be the way you start every single client. If you really want to individualize how they warm up for their workouts and get ready for anything or, and then Prime Pro is working on any major imbalances, deviations. If I need to do some isometric stuff for somebody like this, it is the answer for every one of your clients. And it's such an incredible resource for such a small investment. The, the education and knowledge that that is. It's the accumulation of all of ours plus Dr. Brinks. Yeah. Of 20 plus years.

[Doug]

Therapists and chiropractors use it as well.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yes. It's an incredible tool. If you're a trainer and you're listening, you, you got to pick those two Pro. You should, everybody should have those programs.

[Sal Destefano]

Our next caller is Eric from Florida.

[Justin Andrews]

What's up, Eric?

[Adam Schaefer]

You doing, Eric?

[Doug]

What's happening?

[Eric]

Hey, how you guys doing?

[Justin Andrews]

We're good, man. How can we help you?

[Eric]

Let's see. So I'll get into the email. Started with how can I hack my mindset? This is a two parter. I started lifting seriously and consistently back in July. I made it through rgb. I just finished esthetic a couple of days ago. I seem to love hitting PRs, which at this stage in the game seems to be mostly every week. When I hit PRs, usually every Monday, Wednesday, Friday, that day ends up super productive. And so I'm in really good mood for a big chunk of the day. So one, how can I get the same feeling or productivity at least on my off days? I seem to have a formula to have a successful day. But it's only three days a week, plus the two days of light pumps, but those don't give me the same feel. And then two, how can I prepare myself for when the glorious every day or every week is a PR day is over? I'm 29 now, but know that day's coming even if it isn't for, you know, a little bit.

[Adam Schaefer]

Now this is, this is a fun conversation I don't think we've really had. And this is less to do with the training and more to do with the reframing. It's actually a very dangerous place to get that. You get addicted to this PR feeling because that absolutely is going to change. And then at one point, you'll be where all of us are at, where you're in the, you know, mid-40s and you're weaker than you were when you were. So. And that could be depressing if you are hung up on the amount of weight that is moving on. So my advice, be interested to hear what the guys would say is, I'm going to. I. I would want you to really start to peer into the other things, the other benefits that are coming from this new consistency that you've built. Is my sleep better? Is my libido better? Is my skin better? It's my overall mood, my energy levels, like, like learning to attach all of those other things that this consistency around training is providing you. And not just the adrenaline rush and high that I get from my PR days, because if you do and that becomes the driving force, it'll end up leading you down a path of injury or depression because you can't possibly live up to that. So instead of trying to find ways to find more PR adrenaline high days, I would actually be, if you were my client, be trying to get you to reframe the way we look at all the other parts of your life that have been positively impacted by this consistency.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah, it's. Well, first correction. I think Justin and I are probably the strongest one. We're still. We're still. No, I'm just kidding.

[Doug]

It's like. What are you talking about?

[Justin Andrews]

No, I'm just kidding.

[Adam Schaefer]

You know, Eric, says the guy with one hamstring.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah. It wasn't from lifting, that's from sprinting. The one thing I knew you were.

[Doug]

Trying to do, the sports thing.

[Justin Andrews]

No. So here's the deer. Here's. Here's the deal with this, Eric. Exercise is a great thing to do. Health is a great thing. It is awesome. But it is not awesome when it becomes your. Your top, top, top God, your priority. So there's a lot of things in life that are good that if you put them in the wrong order, can become bad. And so if you start to worship PRs, if that starts to dictate everything, if you start to worship muscle and fitness, even health, then it starts to move in the wrong direction. And so what you're talking about is a relationship that is starting to develop that will turn this good thing into something that starts to tyrannize you, okay. It starts to become a God with no grace, if you will. So the way you want to look at it is this. The relationship that you'll. That you're aiming for with exercise in particular, is that you start doing it for the joy of doing it. So. So it. Although it's great to hit PRs and it feels good to get a good pump and all that stuff, and there's nothing wrong with that, and that'll always feel good, that always feel good. But doing exercise for the sake of the joy of doing the exercise, going to the gym for the sake of the joy of movement, the joy of the fact that I'm here is where you want to go and when you get there, because here's what's going to happen. Even everything Adam said, although Adam's telling you the next step, but even with what he's saying, libido, energy, sleep, at some point, those aren't going to continue to improve. And at some point, if you're blessed, you'll get older, which is a blessing. But some of those things will decline. Like you're not going to be 90 with the same sleep and libido that you had at 29, no matter how consistent you are with exercise and diet. So even those could start to move in the wrong direction. So at some point, all these measurable improvements will stop. And sometimes even before aging, I mean, you might get sick, you know, stress might happen, whatever. I mean, you're young, but, you know, things happen in life. And so the goal is for the joy of just doing it. So it's the joy of the fact that I'm here, the joy of the movement itself, the joy of exercise itself, that'll never go away. That'll always be great. And then the relationship becomes appropriate. And it doesn't rule over you. It becomes something that serves you, not something that you serve.

[Adam Schaefer]

I think in order to get there, though, you have to learn to attach it to other things totally.

[Justin Andrews]

That's the next step.

[Adam Schaefer]

And there's certain things that won't decline when you get older. And you'll find this out. When I work out, I'm a better father than when I don't work out. I'm a better husband, I'm a better business partner. And like, I'm. I'm. And that. That'll never decline. I'll always be a better version of myself when I work out. And so those things you attach to you attach that. Oh, wow, you know, like, I'm. I'm more productive around the house with My wife. When I get that workout, I may not have hit a pr. It may have been a rough workout. It may not have been my best anything. But because I did it, I'm better in all these other aspects. And so learning to look at it through that lens is how you move away from, you know, having to hit records, having to look a certain way all the time. And this is a. This is natural. And everybody, I think, in some form or another faces this. And good coaches and trainers have the ability to step their clients through this process because it is fun to hit PRs, and there's nothing wrong with chasing these milestones. I think it's a good thing, and it's awesome you're doing it. But at some point, as you've. You've already alluded to, I know it's going to end. I know I can't PR forever. And so that's. The conversation I'm already having with you is like, you know, what else are you noticing, man? You notice, like, how you're getting stuff done at work, how you're getting stuff run with your family, and you start really note. And you go, oh, yeah, you know what? You're right, Adam. Like, right.

[Doug]

Just speaking to balance.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah.

[Doug]

You know, and it's. It's one of those. It's fun. Right now. You're in this phase of, like, wow, this is exciting. Like, I haven't seen my body do this before, and. And it's appealing, and it's something that, you know, it's. It's the juice that's driving you right now. But, you know, and you're already aware that this is just something that you have to consider, all these other elements and components of health and fitness and, you know, how do I sort of turn my eyes into different directions? How do I fit or fill all these other gaps that I might be, Because I'm obsessively, like, drawn to this. And. And that's just something you just got to constantly kind of look at this. I always call it, like, a pie chart. Like, I'm looking, like, where some of my deficiencies might lie, because my emphasis is so heavy in this direction. And so to just kind of, like, work your way around and. And keep filling those. Those holes that, you know, you're. You're neglecting and. And that could be relationships. That could be, you know, sleep. That could be whatever it is, like, you know, doing things and being productive around your house and clean cleaning or. Or, you know, at work, whatever it is. But, you know, right now is exciting. So, yeah, you just got to kind of pay attention, monitor it and, and, and try to look ahead and see what's next, that you can kind of.

[Justin Andrews]

You know what's cool about this? This is just. If you do this forever, it's a developing, it's a, it's a never ending development.

[Doug]

It's a wheel man.

[Justin Andrews]

You're not going to hit a destination. There's no, there's no end point if you do this forever. So this relationship will continue to evolve. It's just going to always continue to evolve. And evolution is a process. You get the right mindset. I'll tell you what. Yeah. The question that you're asking me or asking us tells me you're going to be fine. It's. If you just the simple fact that you asked this, you're aware of it, I'm like, oh, he's going to do great. He's going to have some challenges because you're going to, but you're going to do great. Just the fact that you're even asking this at your age, I'm fine with it right now.

[Doug]

I mean, there's nothing wrong with that.

[Adam Schaefer]

Eric, are you, are you in our private form yet? No.

[Eric]

On Facebook.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah, I'm going to have, I'm going to have Doug put that. I think having great community is also helpful with a conversation like this. Yeah. Yeah. So I'm gonna, I'm gonna have Doug put you in there. And when you have moments like this, you have questions, I mean, just post in there. It's such a great community of other like minded people that probably have already gone through what you're going through. And we're in there also. So we'll put you, set you up in there so we can communicate with you in there.

[Eric]

Awesome. I appreciate it. Thank you.

[Justin Andrews]

You got it, man. Thanks for calling in.

[Adam Schaefer]

All right, Eric.

[Eric]

Yep. Thank you, guys.

[Justin Andrews]

You got it. Yeah, I think at some point, you know, I'll stop chasing PRs and crank gates. My relationship eventually will evolve. No, I mean, I'm speaking myself as much as I am to him.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

And, and it is an evolving relationship that you'll have with this thing that you do forever. Just like anything you, you do forever. But, you know, he's 29. He just started. He's in the early days of, of gains. The fact that he's thinking this way. Yeah, he's ahead of 99. Ahead, way ahead. People, you know that people start to ask this when they've hit the wall so hard that they're crazy.

[Doug]

They're using all this hurt.

[Adam Schaefer]

Hurt three times.

[Justin Andrews]

Yes, dude. Yeah, they beat themselves up and all that stuff.

[Adam Schaefer]

So he's got a good head on his shoulder.

[Justin Andrews]

Totally. Look, if you like the show, come find us on Instagram. Justin is at Mind Pump. Justin I'm at my pump. Stephano Adam's at Mind Pump Out.

[Sal Destefano]

Thank you for listening to Mind Pump. If your goal is to build and shape your body, dramatically improve your health and energy, and maximize your overall performance, check out our discounted RGB super [e-mail] the RGB Super Bundle includes Maps Anabolic Maps, Performance and Maps Aesthetic nine months of phased expert exercise programming designed by Sal, Adam and Justin to systematically transform the way your body looks, feels and performs. With detailed workout blueprints and over 200 videos. The RGB Super Bundle is like having Sal, Adam and Justin as your own personal trainers, but at a fraction of the price. The RGB Super Bundle has a full 30 day money back guarantee and you can get it now. Plus other valuable free [e-mail] if you enjoy this show, please share the love by leaving us a five star rating and review on itunes and by introducing Mind Pump to your friends and family. We thank you for your support and until next time, this is Mind Pump.