2559: Four Weird Ways to Build Muscle & More (Listener Live Coaching)

Summary

Podcast Summary: Mind Pump: Raw Fitness Truth – Episode 2559: Four Weird Ways to Build Muscle & More (Listener Live Coaching)
Release Date: March 22, 2025
Hosts: Sal Di Stefano, Adam Schafer, Justin Andrews, Doug Egge
Produced by: Doug Egge

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Introduction

In this episode, the Mind Pump team dives into unconventional methods to stimulate muscle growth beyond traditional weightlifting, nutrition, and sleep. They explore four "weird" yet scientifically-backed strategies to enhance muscular development and overall performance. Additionally, the hosts engage in live coaching with listeners, addressing specific fitness and health concerns.

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Four Weird Ways to Build Muscle

1. Trigger Sessions (Exercise Snacks)

Timestamp: [03:30]

Trigger sessions, also known as exercise snacks or feeder sessions, involve performing light, non-intensive exercises throughout the day to boost muscle growth signals without taxing recovery. Unlike traditional workouts that demand high intensity, trigger sessions focus on small bouts of activity, such as bodyweight squats every 30 minutes.

Notable Quote:
Adam Schafer: “Just doing some body weight squats increased muscle growth signals seven and a half times higher than when the person didn’t do that at all.” [04:09]

Discussion:
The hosts discuss a study where participants who incorporated brief, low-intensity exercises while sitting for extended periods saw a significant increase in muscle protein synthesis. Doug emphasizes that these sessions not only promote muscle growth but also facilitate recovery by enhancing blood flow, oxygen, and nutrient delivery to muscles.

2. Boosting Growth Hormone While You Sleep

Timestamp: [12:00]

Optimizing growth hormone (GH) levels during sleep can contribute to muscle growth and fat loss. The hosts suggest strategies such as fasting a few hours before bedtime and supplementing with compounds like Ornithine Alpha-Ketoglutarate (OKG) to naturally elevate GH levels.

Notable Quote:
Adam Schafer: “Growing hormone is typically highest when you sleep… If you have food in your belly, especially carbohydrates, you will get a rise in insulin. And insulin and growth hormone are inverse.” [14:01]

Discussion:
By avoiding food intake before sleep, especially carbohydrates, individuals can prevent insulin spikes that inhibit GH release. Supplementing with OKG on an empty stomach is highlighted as a method to further enhance GH production, potentially doubling its output during sleep. The hosts caution that these methods should complement, not replace, foundational practices like weightlifting, high-protein diets, and adequate sleep.

3. Deep Stretching Isometrics at the End of Your Workout

Timestamp: [15:43]

Incorporating isometric exercises in a lengthened position post-workout can stimulate additional muscle growth. This technique involves holding weights in stretched positions to activate muscle fibers in a way that traditional exercises may not.

Notable Quote:
Adam Schafer: “Isometrics in a lengthened position build the most muscle. So I could do an isometric with my bicep by flexing it like this… for like a minute or a minute and a half.” [16:08]

Discussion:
The hosts explain that performing isometric holds with slight resistance at the end of a workout can independently stimulate muscle growth, as evidenced by animal studies showing muscle fiber hyperplasia. This method serves as a plateau buster, allowing individuals to break through stagnation by introducing a different stimulus to their muscles.

4. All Day Workout

Timestamp: [18:52]

An all-day workout approach involves spreading out multiple training sessions throughout the day, each focusing on different exercises with ample rest in between. This strategy increases total training volume without overloading the body at any single time.

Notable Quote:
Doug Egge: “It's the workout version of cluster sets, kind of. It’s like doing these cluster workouts all day long… when you actually look at the workout at the end of the day, you go, oh, that was like two and a half workouts more in one day.” [20:08]

Discussion:
By dividing workouts into smaller, manageable sessions dispersed across the day, individuals can achieve higher overall volume while allowing sufficient recovery between sets. This method is particularly beneficial for those looking to maximize strength and muscle gains without the risk of overtraining. However, the hosts note that it may not be practical for everyone and is best used sparingly as a training variation.

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Listener Live Coaching

Amanda from California: Body Proportions and Stubborn Midsection

Timestamp: [58:20]

Question:
Amanda inquires whether body proportions or body type significantly influence the ability to change one’s physique through resistance training. She expresses frustration over difficulty losing weight in her midsection despite a consistent workout regimen.

Notable Quote:
Sal DiStefano: “I know my stomach is my biggest insecurity and has been since having my daughters… I really want to get rid of my stomach.” [59:42]

Advice:
Adam and Doug explain that genetics, including limb length and muscle distribution, play a role in how the body responds to training. They suggest exploring hormonal factors, such as insulin sensitivity or thyroid issues, which could impact fat distribution. Doug recommends consulting a hormone specialist and considering dietary adjustments, such as implementing a calorie deficit or reducing carbohydrate intake in the evening. Tracking food intake to identify possible intolerances and exploring inflammation-related factors are also advised.

Randy from Tennessee: Overtraining and Sleep Issues Related to Egg Consumption

Timestamp: [70:23]

Question:
Randy shares his struggle with overtraining, recent injury, and subsequent sleep disturbances. He noticed that increasing his egg intake to six eggs a day coincided with worsening sleep quality and seeks insights into whether eggs could affect his sleep.

Notable Quote:
Adam Schafer: “It's possible, but not likely, not probable.” [72:35]

Advice:
The hosts discuss the potential for food intolerances to impact sleep by increasing inflammation and cortisol levels. They recommend eliminating eggs from his diet for at least 10 days to determine if there's an improvement in sleep quality. Additionally, they consider the cumulative stress from major life events, such as Randy's recent divorce and injury, as contributing factors to his sleep issues. Doug suggests taking another week off training to see if sleep improves, indicating that excessive training alongside personal stress may be overwhelming his stress tolerance.

Tim from North Carolina: Myostatin Blockers for Sarcopenia

Timestamp: [81:45]

Question:
Tim, a 54-year-old concerned about age-related muscle loss (sarcopenia), asks about the legitimacy of myostatin blockers—supplements claiming to inhibit myostatin, a protein that hinders muscle growth.

Notable Quote:
Adam Schafer: “But you know, nothing has contributed to strength training like bodybuilding.” [55:13]
Doug Egge: “But you know, one day when they do figure that out, it'll make anabolic steroids look like vitamin C.” [86:35]

Advice:
The hosts clarify that myostatin blockers in supplements are ineffective and based on fraudulent marketing. Genuine myostatin inhibition has only been achieved through genetic modifications in animals and has significant health risks. They emphasize that the best approach to combat sarcopenia is consistent strength training, a high-protein diet, and proper rest. Creatine is mentioned as the most effective over-the-counter supplement that can aid muscle growth, though not by significantly blocking myostatin.

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Adam Schafer’s Personal Journey and Reflections

Timestamp: [32:04]

During the episode, Adam opens up about his personal battle with fitness obsession and the temptation to use anabolic steroids. He shares a heartfelt narrative about recognizing his idolization of muscle building as an unhealthy addiction that was affecting his family and mental health.

Notable Quote:
Adam Schafer: “I was praying, I was like, I don't want to stop. I don't want to not do this. I don't want to stop. I need help.” [35:02]

Discussion:
Adam recounts a pivotal moment where he considered starting a steroid cycle but was overwhelmed by a sense of conviction and reached out to his pastor for help. This vulnerability highlights the often-overlooked mental health struggles within the fitness community. The hosts discuss the importance of recognizing and addressing such issues, advocating for seeking professional help and shifting focus from obsessive muscle building to healthier, more sustainable fitness practices like martial arts.

Notable Quote:
Doug Egge: “It's a challenge for when I'm really being vulnerable. She gives me so much grace.” [41:14]

Conclusion:
Adam commits to taking a break from intense bodybuilding routines, incorporating spiritual practices, and exploring activities like jiu-jitsu to regain balance. This candid discussion serves as a powerful reminder of the importance of mental well-being alongside physical fitness.

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Closing Remarks

The Mind Pump team underscores the necessity of foundational fitness principles—strength training, high-protein nutrition, and adequate sleep—while integrating unconventional methods to enhance muscle growth. They emphasize personalized approaches, acknowledging genetic differences and the impact of lifestyle factors on fitness outcomes. The episode concludes with a reminder to listeners to stay informed, skeptical of fad supplements, and prioritize overall health.

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Listeners can engage with the hosts on Instagram @mindpumpmedia, @mindpumpsal, @mindpumpadam, @mindpumpjustin, and @mindpumpdoug, and visit mindpumppodcast.com for more resources and training protocols.

Transcript

[Sal DiStefano]

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[Adam Schafer]

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[Doug]

Auto Parts.

[Unknown]

If you want to pump your body and expand your mind, there's only one place to go.

[Adam Schafer]

Mind Pump.

[Unknown]

Mind Pump.

With your hosts Sal Destefano, Adam Schaefer.

[Adam Schafer]

And Justin Andrews, you just found the most downloaded fitness, health and entertainment podcast. This is Mind Pump. Today's episode we had live callers call in. We got to help them on air, we got to coach them. But this was after our intro and the Intro today was 54 minutes long. Now in there we talk about studies and fitness and diet. It's a good time. Then we got to the callers. By the way, if you want to call in and get coached on air, email us your [e-mail] now this episode is brought to you by some sponsors. The first one is Luminos by Entera. Today we talked about their skincare products that have the highest amount of GHKCU peptide you'll find anywhere. It has been shown in studies to help improve loose skin. Okay, there's studies that actually show GHKCU helps with loose skin, not just making it look better or more firm, but actually with skin looseness. And again this their product at Luminous has the highest concentration of GHK C U that I've ever seen. Go check them out. Go to enteraskincare.com that's e n t e r a skincare.com mpm use the code npm get 10% off your order. This episode is also brought to you by Zbiotics. This is a pre alcohol drink. It's actually a probiotic that's been genetically modified to break down acetaldehyde. Some of the one of the negative byproducts of alcohol consumption. So you take Zbiotics, then you drink alcohol and watch what happens. You feel Way better. Go check them out. Go to ZBiotics.com that's Z B I O T I C S.com forward slash, mindpump25. Use the code mindpump25 for 15% off if you're a first time purchaser. We also have some program sales this month. Maps Performance and Maps performance advance, both 50% off. If you're interested, go to mapsfitnessproducts.com and then use the code 3-50 for the discount. All right, here comes the show. All right, you want to build muscle, you know you need to lift weights, you know you need to eat a high protein diet and get good sleep. But are there other ways to trigger muscle growth? Yes, there are. Today we're gonna talk about four weird ways you can boost muscle growth. I'll start with the first one and I did use the word trigger. The first one is trigger sessions or as some people call them, exercise snacks, feeder sessions.

[Unknown]

That's the lamest version. Come on, snacks. Stop calling them.

[Adam Schafer]

But I'll pull up. They just did a study they did.

[Doug]

For your session just recently.

[Adam Schafer]

They did. So here's what they did in the study. So in the study they took individuals and they had them sit for seven hours. Some of them would get up every so often in this study, every 30 minutes and do some body weight squats. They weren't, it wasn't a workout, it wasn't intense. It was literally just do some body weight squats. Just doing that increased muscle growth signal. So all the ways that we know currently to measure muscle growth signals, including muscle protein synthesis, it was seven and a half times higher than when the person didn't do that at all.

[Doug]

That's a big difference.

[Adam Schafer]

That's a big difference. Now it's not lifting, it's not like a workout, right? A workout going to lifting weights is going to send the loudest muscle building signal. But the challenge with that is there's only so much you can do. You're always battling with recovery and adaptation, right? Like if you could just work out more and continue to build more muscle, then you could work out 24 hours a day and you'd be amazing. But you're limited. So it's like, okay, are there other ways I could trigger muscle growth that don't compromise my recovery? And this is one of them. It's a trigger session.

[Doug]

Well, it doesn't even. Not doesn't not compromise. It also it's really facilitates recovery.

[Adam Schafer]

Correct.

[Doug]

I mean that's really where the.

[Adam Schafer]

Even better.

[Doug]

Yeah, I think that's probably where the, the misconception around feeder sessions or trigger sessions or whatever you want to call it is, or whenever I see them done wrong, is when people think it's just simply increasing the volume of training. Right. Like, oh, okay, yeah, I'll just train more times, frequently throughout the day. But you approach it with the same type of intensity that you would train. And that's not how you get these benefits. The benefits really come from the facilitation of recovery because we know more blood flow, more oxygen, more nutrients is what's going to speed up the recovery process. And so, I mean, there's a bit of a, like, duh, Right. When you think about it, when, when you. Because you know that that's been well known and documented for a long time, that that's what builds muscle is the recovery process. And through the processes of all the things I just said.

[Unknown]

Yeah. Then you stack on top of that that you're practicing these types of movements, low intensity, which increases your skill. Right. So that's another way to sharpen the sword on that regard. But you're getting the benefits of the recovery while doing that carries over into now the actual, like more intense.

[Adam Schafer]

Right. So by the way, the study also compared getting up and walking. And getting up and walking also boosted muscle growth more than just sitting. So any activity, what was it?

[Doug]

Okay, so seven times was the trigger sessions. What was walking?

[Adam Schafer]

Well, with walking, they just saw an increase in muscle protein synthesis, which is actually, I don't remember the exact number, but it was significantly more than just sitting there. But the other growth signals weren't the same. Right, because body weight squats is more like strength training, whereas walking is just movement. But the challenge with this is when we think about building muscle through exercise or movement or activity, we think of strength training. In strength training, there's this structure around it. It's a certain type of intensity. You're doing certain exercises. And unless it's that intensity in those exercises really doesn't count as strength training. So the trick here is to not consider the strength training, but rather I'm doing strength training exercises, but I'm just doing them as a form of activity. And so the way that we've just that we've explained it in like math Synabolic, which uses trigger sessions. And you know, how long has it been now, 12, 13 years since that program was created. I remember when writing that program, my dream was that people understood the concept of trigger sessions and use them with whatever workout they did, because you can. It doesn't matter what workout you're doing. If you find yourself on an off day or doing something that's inactive, if every few hours you just did some push ups, some bodyweight squats, some band rows, just enough to get your body to move, maybe get a little bit of a pump, that's about it. The growth you get from that, the muscle building you get from that is it's like a turbocharger. Now it doesn't compare to the workout, but when you add it to the workout, it's super powerful and it's super easy. And what's cool about this is that they just stood up. They just stood up and did some body weight squats that back down.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

And you saw seven times increase in gross signals. By the way. People have. One of the ways that I, that I saw this or what the idea of this was, and I have this story I've told many times is I just noticed the blue collar workers in my family who didn't lift weights at all had muscular body parts that correlated to the type of activity they did in their blue collar work. So like the male carriers in my family all had well developed calves in comparison to people who, who don't aren't male carriers. Right. They didn't lift weights, they didn't do calf raises, they didn't go to the gym. They just all had like kind of nice looking calves. Both the men and women in my family that, that did that. Then the other blue collar workers, people that, that swung hammers, they all had like kind of muscular forearms. And I thought, you know, they're not, they're not lifting weights at all. And here's the second part of this. If you go become a construction worker or you go become a mail carrier. Yeah. You're going to get sore in those body parts. But after six months or a year, it's gone. You're not, you're not tearing muscle down anymore. You're just doing something that you're really accustomed to. And yet they had well developed forms, well developed calves. What's there? And it's this right here. So there's a cool thing you can add. Anybody can add this to their routine and it doesn't compromise recovery, it only facilitates.

[Doug]

I wish we could get you to do the extreme test of this because you would be such a good person to do this with. I've talked before about, you know, I bet if you were to drop down to once a week to full body training, you would be able to keep. I'm serious. Imagine if it was one full body routine that is it. Just trigger sessions and then just trigger sessions. These little 10 minute, quick little workouts throughout the week. I bet you it would be really interesting to see a year from now the compare. If yeah, we compared your physique, I am willing to bet it wouldn't be much different at all. If at all.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah, you're probably right.

[Doug]

Maybe, maybe even hear you say things like, I actually feel better.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah, probably. I don't think you realize just how relevant you said is, which we'll get to later. But yes, yes, I agree with you. But. And I think you're probably right. It's probably, it's a lot more than even I will admit or try to realize.

[Doug]

I know, bro, Again, for the average.

[Adam Schafer]

Person, like, this is as easy as like, you know, let's say you can rep out 30 pushups. Well, what if three or four times a day you did 10, that's all. You just went on the floor, did 10 pushups. Is that going to boost muscle growth in my chest, shoulders and triceps? I mean 10 is easy. I could do 30 or 40 in a row. What's 10 going to do? It's going to do something. That's the crazy.

[Doug]

I had this, I had this one trainer, this guy Raphael, older guy, he was in his late 40s when I was in my turtle.

[Unknown]

No, there are other people named Raphael.

[Doug]

Not just ninja turtles.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah, he's never ran into.

[Doug]

This is pre. This is pre Justin. So this is before you came on to Hillsdale with me. I had this guy. He was from New York.

[Adam Schafer]

He was Justin before you were there.

[Doug]

No, he's definitely.

[Unknown]

Nobody could be that guy.

[Doug]

He actually drove me crazy. But he, I would watch the way he trained and it was so different than anybody else. He would just all day long walk over the bicep curls. One set. Yeah, go over the one set. That's all day. I'd like never saw him do a full one hour workout.

[Unknown]

Smart.

[Doug]

It was just all the time. And I used to like now I originally thought this guy is so obsessed with seeing his arms. Arms pumped up that he, that was what it was, was like, oh, clients coming, I need to get pumped up like. And it might have been why he did it. I'm not even sure he even understood what he was doing. I mean obviously he understood. He saw, he saw his. He had an incredible physique and it always as, as long as he's worked for me. You know, trainers are, we're all, we all go ups and downs as far as like peak shake. Okay. Shape, whatever. He stayed consistent. The most consistent guy I ever had, older guy working for me. And he trained that way. Never seen anybody else train that way. It was always, always these trigger like sessions. And he had a crazy physique and he swore by. That's the way he lives. I don't do a full hour session. I just do all these little. And he didn't, I don't remember what he called him back then, but micro sessions.

[Adam Schafer]

It's been, it's been observed in many by coaches, by strength coaches, Olympic coaches, the Soviets, I think did studies on stuff like this. It really does work. It's really easy, but it's deceiving because it doesn't feel hard, it doesn't feel like a workout. So how important is it really? It won't. You know, I think maybe you'd have to probably do a lot of them to supplant an actual workout. But keep your workout the way it is and just do, especially on your off days, a couple, two, three of these a day, and then watch what happens. The next weird way is boosting growth hormone while you sleep. Are there ways you can or things you can take that will cause a boost in growth hormone that's significant enough to show some differences in muscle growth and fat loss over long periods of time? And I do think yes. Now this is not gonna be like taking growth hormone. This is not again, gonna be like starting a workout. However, when you look at the data on what we're about to say, it will increase growth hormone and it should over time, over a year, two years, three years, create a difference in how your body and your physique feel and look. And there's a few different ways to do this. One of them is to not eat a few hours before you go to bed. So growth hormone is typically highest when you sleep. That's when your body tends to release it. If you have food in your belly, especially carbohydrates, you will get a rise in insulin. And insulin and growth hormone are inverse. Yeah. Insulin goes up, growth hormone goes down, growth hormone goes up, insulin has to be down. So fasted. And then the following compounds you could take organine, okg, which is orthonine alpha ketoglutarate. It's a form of the amino acid orthonine, glycine and gaba. Take those before you go to bed on an empty stomach. And the data, depending on what study you see, you could see between a 30 to 70% and some studies show double growth hormone output while you're Sleeping.

[Unknown]

Yeah. You know, I've noticed quite a difference just by loading breakfast and lunch typically in like I trying to eliminate because dinner always is the biggest amount of calories and that would impede on you know, sleep a bit because of digestion and then I think too.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah.

[Unknown]

Like processing insulin and then, but you know, kind of putting, putting that on its head and flipping it has, has made a substantial difference in terms of you know, know, strength and, and muscle.

[Doug]

Building for me now per our friend Lane Norton, I remember him breaking down fasting and the obvious. One of the many benefits attached to fasting is growth horror hormone.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah.

[Doug]

And that happens to be one of the ones that he talks about.

[Adam Schafer]

Yes.

[Doug]

That it's negligible and the amount that you're getting from that is.

[Adam Schafer]

So his point is this. And I'm not talking about fasting. Fasting. What I mean by this is go to bed fasted.

[Unknown]

Exactly. So you don't eat throughout the day.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah. You're not eating two or three hours before bed. Not like 24 hour fast shows a spike in growth hormone. That's offset by the fact that you can't eat your protein.

[Unknown]

You don't have building materials.

[Adam Schafer]

That's right. So you can have all the growth hormone you want. You're not hitting your protein. Like there's a, there's an order of operation. Just like the order of operation with what we're talking about in these weird ways is lift weights, eat a high protein diet, get good sleep.

[Doug]

Right.

[Adam Schafer]

If you don't do those, you do all the ones we're about to talk about. It's not going to do anything for you.

[Doug]

Right, Right.

[Adam Schafer]

But these are weird ways because a lot of people don't know about them. And they're great things, you know that you can add to an already turbo boosts. That's right. And so those amino acids that I listed, plus not eating a few hours before bed, over time that rate that elevated growth hormone level while you sleep should improve your recovery, your skin health, your joint health, your ability to burn body fat and build muscle. And it's. And it's also healthy. It's also healthy to do that. Next up, deep stretching isometrics at the end of your workout.

[Doug]

I like this one.

[Adam Schafer]

Yes. So isometrics in general are amazing. Isometrics in a lengthened position build the most muscle. So I could do an isometric with my bicep by flexing it like this. Or I could flex it like this. Lengthened lengthen is going to send the loudest muscle building Signal. You typically don't want to do a static stretch, even with resistance at the beginning of a workout, because it tends to dampen the.

[Doug]

Fry you a bit.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah. And also dampen the CNS a bit, which, you know, I guess with. With, with load, it may or may not, but I think at the end of the workout with a pump is how bodybuilders have typically used this particular method. So what does this look like? Let's say you work out your chest. You're done with your chest. You do. You finish your workout by holding a pair of dumbbells in the stretched fly position. So you're on the bench, you're letting it stretch, but you're holding it there, and you're doing it for like a minute or a minute and a half. That has been shown to stimulate muscle growth by itself, independent of strength training. And there's some really interesting animal studies on that where it induces muscle fiber hyperplasia, where you actually increase the amount of muscle fiber.

[Unknown]

Yeah. I mean, lengthening and relaxing muscle with the cns, but pre, you know, fast twitch movement and activity is not a good idea. And they've shown that.

[Adam Schafer]

So. No, but this is an isometric in.

[Unknown]

The sense that at the end, it's perfect.

[Adam Schafer]

I'm not just holding the stretch, I'm holding a weight, which means that I am allowing the stretch to happen. But there's also enough of a contraction to support resistance. Yes. So you could do this with your lats, you can do this with your delts, your triceps, your biceps.

[Unknown]

So it's still parasympathetic. It's just that you're, you know, honing in on that is like a potential for, you know, needing to get recruitment there.

Yes.

[Adam Schafer]

This is a part of a. Of a program that was popular online called DC Training. DC stands for dog crap training. I don't know if you guys.

[Unknown]

Yeah, I'm familiar.

[Adam Schafer]

Well, where they, where they include this. I remember Ben Pakulski talked a lot about this kind of stretching.

[Doug]

Came on our YouTube channel. There's a good. For the audience, there's a good intro work setting. If you go to Mind Pump. And I think. Search Mind Pump Intro workout Stretching, I think is where it pops up. And you'll see Ben Pakolski teaching. Teaching this. And swear. Swears by it also.

[Adam Schafer]

It's. It's gnarly. I'm gonna tell you right now. Deep stretching, a pumped muscle with some resistance to. It hurts really bad afterwards, the pump gets even more intense. It's pretty awesome.

[Doug]

Now I've done this before and I like it. I also like it as like a plateau buster to your point about the big rocks. Right. Like, you know, when we talk about the weird things to promote muscle growth, you know, I'm always, I want to teach a client or family, doesn't matter, anybody who I'm helping to check all the big boxes first, then the inevitable will happen. A plateau will eventually occur, no matter how good of a programmer you are. And when that plateau occurs, here's a cool thing that you can add into that routine versus you're just getting back into the training again. And then you're gonna incorporate something like this. I feel like it's, it's not necessary at that point. You're gonna see great benefits by traditional training. Wait till you have a nice plateau and then use like a strategy like this.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah, and definitely get the big. I mean, definitely have a good routine first. You know, again, I'll say that again. All of these aren't gonna do anything for you if you don't strength train, eat high protein and get good sleep. Lastly, the all day workout. You wanna talk about a plateau buster? This one's awesome. This, I haven't done this in a while, but this one I did do.

[Unknown]

This is an event.

[Adam Schafer]

It is. So what it looks like is you basically have a day where you can do, you know, five workouts. Pick two or three exercises, and every other hour or every two hours you go out and do a moderate three sets of each exercise and then you go and eat and relax a little bit and then repeat it again, maybe every other hour, every third hour. And the total volume that you're able to accomplish with this is so insane. You would never be able to do all in one workout. And the muscle and strength gains that happen from this are almost immediate. Like two to three days later, I'm stronger.

[Doug]

It's the workout version of cluster sets, kind of. Yeah, very much so. When you think of, you think of what makes cluster sets so cool is like the amount of volume you do in such a short period of time because you get these little mini rests in between is just crazy how much that is. And that extra volume ends up being breaking through a plateau. I think that's the same kind of concept, but on a, on a grander scheme.

[Adam Schafer]

Right.

[Doug]

On the workout schemes. Like you do these cluster workouts all day long. When you actually look at the workout at the end of the day, you go, oh, that was like two and a half workouts more in one day that my body totally could handle because I gave it all these great rest periods totally between.

[Adam Schafer]

So to give an example what this would look like, let's say my working, let's say a five rep working set of squats for me was 3:15. Let's say five reps for bench press for me was 225 and pull ups. Let's say I could do 15 for a hard set here. So here's what it would look like. I would do 225 for squats for five reps. I would do maybe 165 for bench for five reps and then I would do maybe seven pull ups and I would do three sets of that. So it's moderate, it's not hard. I do three sets, let's say at 9am Then I do it again at 11 or 12. Then I do it again at like 2. Then I do it again at Like 4 or 5 and then maybe one more in between eating, relaxing. It's pretty incredible. Again, the strength gains you get from this and the amount of total volume that you're able to accomplish. It's pretty awesome. It's a really, really awesome feeling.

[Doug]

It's interesting that we haven't seen more pro bodybuilders put this to practice. I feel like again it's another one of those things that logically it just makes sense on why it would work so well. Like you're, you're all, you're like you're, you're able to do so much more total volume on the body because of these great rest periods and feeding between and stuff like that. So it's like it, it seems like it would be a massive hack for somebody who does this full time. Unrealistic for most people.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah, yeah.

[Doug]

Right.

[Adam Schafer]

That's why it's like once in a great while.

[Doug]

Yeah. It's like a weekend, like maybe a cool weekend thing that you can plan to do. Your friends, average person who, who has a job in a life or kids.

[Adam Schafer]

You'D have to do it on like a Saturday.

[Doug]

Probably not happening. But the, the pro bodybuilder, you would. I would have thought that this would have made its way into that scene.

[Adam Schafer]

A couple of them have talked about this. I know in the 70s there were bodybuilders, they do those double splits and stuff. Yeah, I did stuff like this. And then you had like rich piano talked about this for arms where you, you'd add a half an inch to your arms in one day. You know, he would kind of talk about. And he did stuff like this. I know that in the old time, strongman competitors would sometimes do this when getting ready, and they wanted to practice a particular lift, often for a particular competition. You would see this and then sometimes. So I remember the first time I experienced something like this was filming the original map CNN, which was again 13 years ago or so. It took us all day to film all these exercises. So I was kind of. I was picking weight that I could do. It was like, I'm trying to work out on camera, but because I did all these lifts all day long, the next day I was like, whoa, I feel like I had a crazy workout. And I looked at the volume, like, oh, my God, it was so many sets. All these different exercises, you know, that I did. Yeah, all day long. It's a lot of fun. I wouldn't suggest this, you know, every week, but I think, like, every two months or so. Have fun with it. Take off. You know, take off most of the workouts that week and then go on on a Saturday. Pick three exercises, keep doing them. Here's what happens, by the way. Halfway through, you get stronger. You actually find yourself getting stronger halfway through, and then fatigue sets in. It, by the. By the.

[Unknown]

I mean, it's just like working some crazy manual labor job where you're breaking rocks and shit and you have to do it all day long. It's like, you gotta adapt. You gotta figure it out.

[Adam Schafer]

So. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Anyway, I got another. I got some. A cool study on something that we often get asked about that we typically don't really have a good answer for. And I feel bad about it.

[Doug]

What's that?

[Adam Schafer]

Loose skin. Oh, yeah, Loose skin.

[Doug]

There's a. You know, why there's a lot of. Out there.

[Adam Schafer]

There is a lot.

[Doug]

And. And I know, and I'm actually glad. I'm curious what you're gonna say or share, because I know there's a lot of. But I also know that there's a lot of stuff out there, too, that supposedly works. And it's not something that I've gone down the rabbit hole really deep. And so when someone asked me, I tend to defer, like, ah, you know, it's not. I don't really know for sure. I've heard this, I've heard that. But I. I normally don't, like, confidently point someone in a direction. I'm assuming that you're bringing this up because you feel pretty confident about something you read.

[Adam Schafer]

Yes. So now there's a limit. Okay. So, you know, if you lose £100 and you have that kind of loose skin, this is Going to be very minimal. But this is the kind of loose skin that you see as you age. And you'll see this or you'll feel this in your face, in your belly. Sometimes as you age, you'll see it start to happen in the knee, in the knee area.

[Unknown]

Women will have the turkey neck thing.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah. So ghkcu, the peptide GHKCU has been shown to help with elasticity, firmness, and looseness. It's one of the few things I've ever read about in studies to help with looseness in particular. So there are cosmetic products with ghkcu, but they're often really low dose. We work with the company Luminos. Luminos is like, you're not going to find anything higher dose than them for, you know, topical ghkc, like, super, super high dose compared to anybody else. And so if you have, like, neck skin. So here's, here's where I would use it. Right. You know, you often hear women in particular talk about their skin on their neck. That would be the place to use it. And you would see tightening in that, in that area.

[Doug]

Katrina rubbed it on her belly while she was pregnant.

[Adam Schafer]

Oh, yeah. That makes, that makes a lot of.

[Doug]

She was really religious about that.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's for, is for the, the stretch marks and all that stuff.

[Doug]

She didn't get anything. Yeah. I know that a lot of that is largely genetic.

[Adam Schafer]

Yes, yes.

[Doug]

You know, most, most women that I know that didn't get stretch marks, their mom didn't get stretch marks. The ones that did, their family, their whole family did. So I know genetics plays the biggest role in that. But then I know people that swear by they've rubbed that type of stuff. Coconut oil, I've heard.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah. Or what's the other one? Cocoa butter.

[Doug]

Yeah, yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

You know. Yeah. But no, no, GHKCU has been shown in studies to actually do this now. Real GHKCU peptides, expensive. So, you know, you get what you pay for when you look at a product. But I like it because, again, there's very few things where they're like, oh, this will help with the looseness of the skin in your neck or under the eyes. Or again, I noticed this with aging people who strength train is they'll get lean and you'll see a little looseness in the knee skin, you know, the flexor quad or in the belly. Like, they'll get lean, but there's a little bit of that looseness, even though they never had a lot of body weight to lose.

[Unknown]

Yeah, I was going to say. So that's just the, that just is a natural. Cause over time with the skin, it's not like it's a stretching, you know, too elastic and then so there's that.

[Adam Schafer]

Which is not what I'm talking about. Like you lost 100 pounds. Yeah, very different GHKCU. So I, I don't think I went.

[Doug]

Through this when my first, my first round of getting ready for a show. So pre prepping for a show, I had never seen anything lower than about 9% body fat. That was the lowest my entire training career. I'd never seen less than 9%. And then I went on, I don't know, probably a three year run of carrying myself above 15 body fat, which is like a small, small belly to me.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Doug]

And, and then I started.

[Adam Schafer]

Not bad, but it's definitely more than that.

[Doug]

So then I started cutting and the, the original first cut I got all the way down to 7%, so lowest I'd ever been before and I had that loose skin on my belly. Now I've always told people what, what worked for me was okay, I cut all the way down to 7%. Then I bulked up, built muscle and I went and added like 10 pounds of muscle and of course a little bit of body fat came back on. I think I went up to like 10 or 11% and then I cut down again down to like 6% and I noticed that it was a little bit tighter and it was almost gone. And then that's about the third time I did that.

[Adam Schafer]

You've told, I've said, you've said this before.

[Doug]

Yeah. And then, and then, then it was, then it was gone and now it doesn't, it's not there anymore. But I also haven't carried myself at a high body fat percentage. Like I did like that for a very long, like even like just recently when I came off of like the getting back in shape, I wasn't that crazy out of shape. Like, I mean I was, I lost a lot of muscle, but I didn't put on a lot of ton of body fat like I had in the past. Like I got all the way up to almost 20% body fat, which was really high for me. And that's when that happened to me. So there's something to say too about the, you know, the, if it's, if it's in that range right where I didn't have like obese, I lost 100 pounds loose skin. But there was definitely loose skin and it definitely tightened back up well, the.

[Adam Schafer]

Data on protein intake, high protein intake, and strength training shows that strength training is the best for skin. Of all the forms of exercise, they're all good. If you exercise, get healthy, it's always good for your skin. But strength training has some special effects on skin. We've seen this in studies. High protein diet, because skin is protein, right? That's what it's made up of. But then there's also the looseness that starts to happen as you age. And you'll see this in, like, you know, when you. You know what's really clear, Adam, when you see bodybuilders, physique competitors, bikini competitors who are in their 40s versus in their 30s and 20s, they're still lean. Yeah, they're still shredded. But you'll see it in the knee.

[Doug]

You can see it on Ben Pakulski's arms. His arms were so big before. You can just see that it's like, lean, loose there.

[Adam Schafer]

But you'll see as people age, it starts to happen. And that's the first study I've ever seen where something seems to be effective on skin looseness. Not just the elasticity or, you know, the vibrance and that kind of stuff, but actually the looseness of it, which I think is pretty. Pretty fascinating. Yeah, yeah.

[Doug]

I'm dying to know, bro. What's. What is this? This.

[Adam Schafer]

Oh, God, man.

[Doug]

I want to hear. I want to hear, like, you came in this morning talking about how you just.

[Adam Schafer]

I'm putting it out there because I got to make it real, so that's why I'm doing.

[Doug]

And then. And then I. I feel like I kind of have a guess now because you. I said something that you said that. Well, just hold. I have.

[Adam Schafer]

Hold your tongue, and I'll go. And if you're right, you can tell me.

[Doug]

Yeah, over here.

[Adam Schafer]

No, you know, it's funny. So it's gonna get spiritual here for a second. But, you know, when you've been told to me, and I've experienced this very much, trying to walk with Christ is not easy. You pray you, and he gives you. He reveals things to you. And it's very painful and challenging because you make things. Idols make a lot of things idols. Or you have things that you just don't want this. I was at church on Sunday. My friend Chuck was speaking, and he's incredible speaker, by the way. Pastors, the best speakers in the world because they do it so often. He's up to three, four times a day talking. So much practice. Right. But anyway, so good. And he talked about how Jesus washed the feet of the apostles, and he was explaining that. And part of it is what we understand, which is like the king of Kings washing someone's feet. Like, that's not. Even your servants would do that. But then there's the other flip side of it, which is you don't want them to wash your feet, because that's the dirtiest part. You don't want to see that. So, no, no, you can wash my hands, but don't look at my feet. Don't look at this stuff. I don't want nobody to see this type of deal. So I was experiencing that, and I've been praying a lot for the idol that I can. That. That I have, which is my body and exercise and fitness. And you guys know that about me. But, yeah, man, he's. He's really showing me and through some challenges at home, and I, I really, I've been praying for God to help me with this. And the way that I pray is. I don't want to change this. Like, I'm being honest. I don't want to change. I need help, God. I know, I. I know it's not good. I don't want to change it. Yeah, I need help. It's not like, hey, I'm going to do this. I don't want to change this. And so it's really painful. And what I saw was what it's causing, what it's causing for my family, what's causing for me. And I, you know, I abuse. I abuse peptides, I abuse hormones. I go beyond. I go. I push the limits with what I can get away with. And, you know, it was all culminating in this week that I actually was going to buy steroids this week, and I was gonna start taking anabolic steroids. And I was leading into it and I knew that it was a problem and I was praying. And this morning it all really hit.

[Doug]

Me like something additional to the trt.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah. Oh, wow.

[Doug]

You were about to, like a legit cycle.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah. And I know it's an idol. I know it's a problem. And I just.

[Doug]

Well, you said that when we first, you know, to back you up. I mean, it's not like.

[Adam Schafer]

I mean, I talk about how I challenge this on the podcast, but I'm not fully open with it.

[Doug]

I mean, you. We. Yeah, I mean, I'm sharing what off air stuff you've shared with us. Hopefully it's okay. I remember, we'll edit it. Yeah, we've never edited. I remember when I remember you. Very honest. Honestly, and humbly said to me when we, when we signed with Transcend that you said, hey, keep an eye on me. Yeah, this, I, I love this stuff and love experimenting, love. And I know that about myself and, you know, I could definitely get out of control with it. And so I remember when you said. And I, I, I've always tried to respect that in your space. I throw you little jabs every now and then. Like my subtle way of like telling you like that, but without, I mean, I think you're a very self aware person. You knew it going into it.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah.

[Doug]

So to me, it was only a matter of time before you felt that.

[Adam Schafer]

And what was it? What's crazy is that again. And I'm asking for mercy. So I'm like, don't let it be something with my health that causes this to change. Like, I don't want my family to suffer. I don't want something to happen with my health. And then that's the thing that changes me. But meanwhile, my family's suffering and so I've been praying for that mercy and I don't want to change this. God, I'm not going to change it. I want to change it, but I need help type of deal. And it's. Again, it's. I know it's an issue and it's funny, you know, I got into an argument with my wife this morning and I, I could see how keeping this, this idol is related to so many other challenges that I can pose for my family. And I just, it was, she was talking to me and she was really open and vulnerable and I was looking at her and I suddenly felt the, the crushing pain. Like, oh, my God, man. She doesn't deserve some of the things that I did. If I tell you kind of what happened, it sounds silly, but, like, we got an argument because I had to work out one morning when we were supposed to go somewhere. And I can rationalize it. It's 20 minutes in the garage. I'll go do a set. It's not a big deal. And I'm looking at her and I'm like, I'm causing all these problems, like all these pain over this idol. I felt this crushing pain. So I get, I'm on my way to work and I want to talk to her because I could feel like I need to strike when the iron's hot because I know it'll happen if I wait long enough. I know my, my tendency is I'll disassociate, avoid.

[Doug]

Yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

And then stay the course.

[Doug]

Yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

So, like, I need to tell her now. I need to talk to her now, and I need to make this real. And so I'm trying to get her on the phone. She's want to get on the phone. They just got an argument. She thinks I'm gonna continue the argument. Well, she thinks what I'm gonna do is. Sweet talker. I'm really good with words, obviously.

[Doug]

No.

[Adam Schafer]

And so I'm trying to tell her. So finally we get on the phone, and she's like, you know, you got to make this real. You got to tell people. Tell, you know, your tell. Tell your friend Chuck, the pastor. Tell Chad, who's another pastor I talked to. While I'm talking to her, I get a text from Chad and his. Literally all it says was, hey, man, how you doing this morning? Let me know if you want to talk. Like, what? So I call him and I tell him, and I tell him, like, hey, man, I was about to get on steroids this week. I need. This is a problem, man. I need help with this. And so, yeah, dude. So here's what I'm do. So. And I got to put it out there, because now that I put it out there, it's going to happen, or at least you guys will be able to keep my feet to the fire.

[Doug]

Yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

But I'm taking this week off. All I'm going to do in the morning is. Is pray and journal. I'm going to get back into working out probably two or three days a week, and then I'm going to. I think I'm going to pursue. I don't know if this is what I'm going to do, but I might pursue jiu jitsu again because it's enough of a. It's good. It's physical activity, but it's away from bodybuilding.

[Doug]

Yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

It's away from lifting weights, which is. What is the big, you know, the big trigger for me.

[Doug]

Is it too. Is it too much of a leap that I so want you to be the guy to do that experiment?

[Adam Schafer]

Dude, you know what? I like what you're saying. Here's the thing.

[Doug]

I know it's a big. I know it's a big.

[Adam Schafer]

Well, it'll turn into pride, bro. It'll turn into, let me show everybody. Let me do this thing that can sell how great, you know, this type of workout is. Let's create a new.

[Unknown]

Tie it into vanity.

[Adam Schafer]

Let's create this. A new program based off of this. Let's monetize it. Let's. Whatever. It'll turn into pride. And again, I'm just saying this out loud so that doesn't happen, because it could very easily happen. Even this can happen. Right? I'm telling my audience, look how cool I am, you know?

[Doug]

So, I mean, that's fair. I think it's. I think it's such a cool. It's such a cool lesson. I mean, I don't know. I. I guess I'm in the middle of learning it myself, so I'm fascinated by it.

[Adam Schafer]

I don't want to see how much muscle I can keep. I don't want my eyes focused on that. Yeah, I think what I need to. I think I know where I need to keep my eyes, you know, and I need to exercise because it's healthy. That's good for my mental state. But I got to move away from this idol that I just. Man, I struggle with it. It's a real nasty. You know, it's given. It's helped me coach other people, but, boy, you know, flipping it on myself is really, really tough.

[Doug]

Oh, yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

So, yeah, man, I was there, dude. I was like a day away from. From doing that.

[Doug]

What were you gonna do? Can we hear the stat? I know you thought long and.

[Adam Schafer]

No, no, I'm not gonna say, oh, really? That's too much. No, really. You know what? Some kid's gonna hear it and be like, oh, that's what he was gonna do. Maybe that's what I was gonna do.

[Unknown]

That's not true.

[Doug]

Listen, I'll just put it. If the kid heard what you just did right before.

[Adam Schafer]

I'll just put it this way, okay? There is nothing about me in this regard when I am full on worshiping muscle building that is logical. It's all about how far can I go. Yeah, it's all about how far can I go? How far can I push it? And I could rationalize it because I get blood work done and I'm. Oh, this is prescription. I'm within the legal. I mean, I'm not, you know, I'm doing. I'm well beyond what's appropriate. You know, I. I push the limit.

[Doug]

So, you know, I think. I think it's. It's really cool, though, for the audience to hear that, because I do think that we talk about this. I mean, this is the reason why we tend to tell people that we.

[Justin Andrews]

We.

[Doug]

We recommend that they don't do competing. Right? Because if you have even, like, an ounce of similarity as you and you put that person in that world, it's like. And then it's. And then it's really easy to justify because you're like, oh, it's my sport. And it's, I love it. And it's so, it's really easy to wrap it into this. It's good for me. It's my sport. I love the sport. It's all about this. When it's really feeding this internal monster that is, is growing from this. And you're just getting this feedback loop of people telling you how great you are and how good you look. And so it's, it's a, you know, it's a fit.

[Adam Schafer]

I'm on a fitness podcast. This is what I do.

[Doug]

And you know the worst part about this?

[Adam Schafer]

You know what sucks too? You know, it makes it hard. People really, by the way, people listening are going to be like, they're not going to say anything anymore. But people will come up and like.

[Unknown]

Bro, you're Jack, dude, you look great.

[Adam Schafer]

You should, you know, you should go after that deadlift or whatever. It's funny. I'll tell my friend. I even told. So even my friend Chuck, who now he's full on, understands and he's great, but because I wasn't fully letting him in, he thought that he didn't. I don't think he realized how serious I was. Yeah, we would joke about this, but like, no, man, you know, working out for me is a challenge. You know, I go, I push it too hard and he's, he likes to work out. So he's like, oh, come on, go get that 700 pound deadlift, bro. And I'm like, you don't know what you're doing by, by telling me that. Yeah, so today when I talk to him.

[Doug]

Yeah, that feels bad probably.

[Adam Schafer]

No, not bad. He's like, oh, shit, man. He's like, okay, I see. So I got some, I got, you know, I got people help. And I could see God using people around me to help with this. So I'm actually going to go see, I'm actually going to see a professional about addiction.

[Doug]

This really sucks because this puts a lot of pressure on me and Justin to carry the average.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah, you got to get.

[Doug]

I've been enjoying this. Kind of like me, I've just been cruising, you know, so there's a, there's.

[Unknown]

For the audience, the opposite.

[Doug]

There's an off air joke that we have that the 10 years we've been doing this, we've managed the same body fat percentage average.

[Adam Schafer]

And muscle.

[Doug]

Yeah, and muscle. Right.

[Unknown]

Shifted around.

[Doug]

Yeah. It's just like if you, if you go back and you look at all different pictures of all of us there's been a point where one guy is more shredded than the next guy, always. But as a group, our average is always, you know, the same or whatever, and you're going to fuck that up. So, Doug, me and Justin, to step it up a little bit, you were carrying a lot of load there for a while.

[Adam Schafer]

Well, I mean, you know, all joking aside, me, I was in tears this morning, you guys. This is no joke. I mean, I'm on the podcast. I'm talking on camera. I can really turn it on when I need to, but this was hard. And I know my body doesn't show it right now. Again, I'm on. I'm on camera, but this is real hard to let go, man. And when I. Like I said when I was talking my way in, thank God for my wife, man. She can. When she. When I'm vulnerable, really. When I'm not vulnerable. She's. She's. She's. This is a challenge for when I'm really being vulnerable. She gives me so much grace. She can make me feel like I.

[Doug]

Can tell her empathy, you know, that they have.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah. Because. Because it could really backfire if for, you know, when somebody opens up to you, the worst thing you could do is make them feel shitty for you.

[Doug]

Oh, especially. Especially a man. Especially a man who has a hard time. Men have a hard time being vulnerable like that in the first place.

[Adam Schafer]

You feel emasculated, and then you're gonna hammer me for it.

[Doug]

Last time I say that, Right?

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah. So she gave me so much grace and. And then I saw that text out of nowhere. By the way, it's like the fourth time that's happened, you guys, where something's going on and randomly someone will reach out or I'll run into someone and they'll be like, hey, man, yesterday, what were you doing? This happened to me the other day, too. Friend of mine ran into him at some show. Hey, bro, what were you doing last night at 7pm I'm like, why? Like, I felt this overwhelming conviction to pray for you. Oh, my God. I was in a blowout fight with my kid that, you know and. You know. How did you. Like, so weird, right?

[Unknown]

It's so weird.

[Doug]

Yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

So anyway, that's. It's painful. And so my Chuck told me too. He goes, listen, there's a lot of scripture that tells you that walking with Christ is dying, is constantly dying. You're like, so many poetry. Old self is dying, and it doesn't feel good at all.

[Doug]

Now, are you. You know, I don't. I don't want to throw too much at you like because you're. I'm sure this is all fresh and new, but I'm genuinely curious like are your, are your thoughts. Are you going to try and even like. And I know the scenario that you're challenged right. We, we travel so that you, you're always so regimen about your training and your diet and this and that is that part of. I'm going to try and, and, and be less of that in those moments like, hey, we're traveling. This is my time. I'm gonna take. I'm not gonna lift today. I don't need to go lift. I don't need to get up at 6:00 in the morning and do this thing. Like are you trying to do that also or is that all of it?

[Adam Schafer]

But I think I'm. The reason why I'm taking this week off is I need to get away reset. Yeah, but there's real value. I don't need to say this. There's real value to exercise and fit. It's also good for my mental health, of course. So it'll. It might look different is what it might look like. It might look like I go for a walk in the morning or I do mobility or maybe I do lift. But it's different. The intention's gonna. I'm gonna try real hard to have the intention be different.

[Doug]

So yeah, I've always thought, I mean that's like obviously it's healthy and good for you. And I think that this. Cause this conversation might be going over some people's head. Like I'm so confused right now with these fitness guys talking about not working out right now. I'm sure we're gonna lose some people cause of that right now.

[Adam Schafer]

But you can make something healthy, real unhealthy.

[Doug]

Yeah. Yeah. Well, there's times where, you know, we've been together and the obvious easy thing to do to make the work situation smoother is you just sacrifice that and that make at that moment. That's what makes sense. But because of this pool that you have to it. It's very difficult for do it. So that's the time where I think that gets exercise. I don't think you just don't work out whatever it was. Like there's times when it obviously makes sense. It's healthy, it's right.

[Adam Schafer]

I'll listen to you because I need to listen to other people. So I'll listen to you listen to myself. Has it worked? It don't work. I lied to myself.

[Doug]

I'm so curious about the stack.

[Adam Schafer]

I'll tell you off air.

[Doug]

I can't believe you're going to do that, dude. That's so crazy.

[Adam Schafer]

I know.

[Doug]

That's so.

[Adam Schafer]

I was so close now.

[Doug]

Okay.

[Adam Schafer]

I was so close.

[Doug]

Complete honesty. Because we're all very open and honest with each other. Were you not going to tell Justin and I. Oh, I feel like you.

[Adam Schafer]

Would have told us if I went on.

[Doug]

Yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

Oh, the plan was to not tell anybody, you guys.

[Doug]

That's interesting to me.

[Adam Schafer]

The plan was to not tell anybody. Here's what would have happened. I'm sure you would have noticed. Of course. What the. What's happening, Sal?

[Unknown]

Sal ate Sal again.

[Adam Schafer]

What's happening to you right now? I'm taking more breath out of your neck, dude. No, it wasn't really a plan. I didn't think it out like that. It wasn't like I thought it out. It was just an impulse.

[Doug]

You were about to do it.

[Adam Schafer]

I was going to do it. I planned it. And you know this is going to happen.

[Doug]

You think you would have told us. You definitely wouldn't lie about if I called you out and I felt.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah, I would have told you if.

[Doug]

I would be like, come on, bro, I know, D ball, when I see this.

[Adam Schafer]

I would have told you.

[Unknown]

I probably.

[Adam Schafer]

I mean. Yeah, I know you think about it. I thought you meant. What was I going to tell you this morning? No, I mean, if had I gone through with it.

[Doug]

Yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

It's hard to say because that's a weird state of mind, dude, when you know. That's a weird state of mind when you get into something and you're, you know, it's not great. And, you know, the people who you care about, who you trust will tell you the truth. Sometimes it was the people you don't want to tell.

[Doug]

Yeah, I get.

[Adam Schafer]

You know what I'm saying?

[Doug]

I could see initially, because I trust you guys.

[Adam Schafer]

I love you guys.

[Doug]

Yeah, I could see.

[Adam Schafer]

And you guys aren't gonna lie to me.

[Doug]

Yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

You know, I mean, so if I tell you, you guys are gonna. You're gonna beat me up over it, but you're gonna be like, what the hell are you doing? Yeah, like, why?

[Unknown]

You're confused.

[Adam Schafer]

You're stupid. Yeah. You know, so. I don't know, man. But it's weird, though. Like, I'm telling you, man. I was praying. I was like, I don't want to stop. I don't want to not do this. I don't want to stop. So I'm not gonna stop. I need help. I know what I'm supposed to. Please have mercy. Don't let me hurt myself. Don't, you know, whatever. And that's. That's how it all.

[Doug]

The Jiu Jitsu is a really cool idea because I, you know, you and I share of similar insecurities when talking about this, right? And we've both openly talked about. And when I went on that year two kick of becoming the mobility guy, what was so special about that for me was that so not what I want to do, you know what I'm saying? Like, I leaned all into it and got into. I had to. I had to be about it. I had to be, like, excited and into it to really buy into it. But it was such a good exercise for me. It really, really helped me tackle a lot of probably similar demons that I had for a really long time. And that. That stretch of time, I don't know if there. If there was ever anything that I felt helped me break free of that more than ever. That was. That was it. I feel like I've never looked back since then. It's been like, okay, this is not as hard as I thought I thought it was. You know, I think Jiu Jitsu did.

[Adam Schafer]

That to me before, too. I bet that's why I thought of it. And that's what. That's why. One of the reasons why I thought. My wife has been encouraging me, which is interesting, because she typically doesn't encourage me to spend more time away from the house, and yet she's like, go do Jiu Jitsu. I'm like, it's in the evening, like when the kids are going down or whatever. No, no, you got to do this. So that was part of it. And the other part of is I did in the past, and that was probably the healthiest body image I had. Because, you know, with Jiu Jitsu, it's. You can take steroids and do Jiu Jitsu, too, but it's not bodybuilding.

[Doug]

It's not beneficial to me.

[Adam Schafer]

I'm not in. Well, it can be, right? Definitely can be. But it's not like I'm not getting a pump in there and looking in the middle association. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It was more about the technique and then being fluid and having stamina. So we'll see. We'll see if that works out. I'm sure I'll be showing up to studio black eyes and stuff, doing Jiu Jitsu.

[Doug]

I still want to do it. I feel like I should do it.

[Adam Schafer]

You would love it, dude.

[Unknown]

You would.

[Adam Schafer]

Long limbs you would crush.

[Doug]

Maybe if you get into it. Maybe that's what. I'll drag me into it. I just, I need. You know what it is, too. I'm sorry. So resistant. Because everybody does it.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah, that's.

[Doug]

I just.

[Adam Schafer]

You don't have to tell anybody.

[Doug]

I know exactly if I do it, it's gonna be undercover.

[Unknown]

Like, it all, dude.

[Doug]

Oh, you didn't like it at all.

[Unknown]

I much prefer, like, Muay Thai. Yeah.

[Doug]

Well, to me, it's so opposite of you. That's why it'd actually probably be good for you.

[Unknown]

It would.

[Doug]

Because you are so the guy to grit his teeth. And that's what you want. You want hit me in the mouth? Let me punch somebody else in the mouth. And that is not Jiu Jitsu. Jiu jitsu is.

[Unknown]

Jiu jitsu is like flow. And I don't want to lay on my back. Lay on my back, dude.

[Doug]

Like, it's a very vulnerable position for me.

[Unknown]

I don't like that.

[Doug]

My legs up.

[Unknown]

Come here.

[Adam Schafer]

Come here.

[Unknown]

What the Is that?

[Doug]

Yeah, I mean, that's true.

[Adam Schafer]

Plus, you did jiu jitsu with Dennis. I know Dennis. He's like a world class monster.

[Doug]

Yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

So you probably.

[Doug]

You don't. I don't see. That's so not his.

[Unknown]

But yeah, I was Muay Thai.

[Doug]

So much more.

[Adam Schafer]

He would be a monster in Jiu Jitsu, too. But I get what you're saying.

[Doug]

Yeah. It's so not his personality.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah. It's fighting for nerds. It really is. It's like, it's really about chess and, you know. Yeah.

[Unknown]

It's hard. I respect it completely. It's just.

[Doug]

Yeah.

[Unknown]

It felt so uncomfortable for me. It's just like a dead fish out there.

[Doug]

I want to do it because I think I'd be pretty good at it.

[Adam Schafer]

You'll be very good at it. You have the body.

[Doug]

Yeah.

[Unknown]

You got good leverage.

[Adam Schafer]

You're also. You're also think a lot would really like.

[Doug]

Yeah. And I like that type of stuff. You know, I really. So I, I, that's why I want to do it. You know, it's going to be one of those things. I'm going to do it. I'm like, God damn it. Why did I do this? A long time ago.

[Adam Schafer]

All the messages now, people. You know what? Also, it sucks, which I. I have a group of guys that I trust. But also the other part that makes me want not, not want to do it is showing up to a class, having people recognize me. And I got a target.

[Doug]

Oh, it's the purple Belt guy.

[Adam Schafer]

Let's get him.

[Unknown]

If you have muscles, I. I've definitely felt that, too. Even just going into one of those places and then, like, all the guys, like, looking, like, immediately mean, mugging you. And I'm just like, dude, I'm just here to learn, you know, like, you know, you're, like, in a threat right away, and I'm just like, dude, I'm just trying to.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah, well, if you.

[Doug]

If you really start looking into it, keep me at least in the loop. So. Yeah, so I will have the option.

[Adam Schafer]

I'll tell everybody what's happening. If. If you think that. Yeah, I'll talk about the whole process.

[Doug]

Yeah, no, I think. I think it'll be really. I mean, this is. I think it's a really cool evolution to the show and stuff like that for people to. To see that side of you.

[Adam Schafer]

Well, I'm going to warn people if you choose. If, like, you choose to go on this path and you choose to, you know, if you step into the faith and you walk. He. You know, it's. It's hard. It's hard. There's. He. He never said it's easy. He'll give you peace, but it ain't easy. It's a lot of. It's a lot of challenge, a lot of pain, a lot of. Lot of struggle.

[Unknown]

Well, maybe. Maybe CrossFit had just put it out there to God, too.

[Doug]

I knew you're gonna work your way to get that in there. Justin's been dying. Too many prayers, bro. Or like this. Well, we selling.

[Adam Schafer]

They're selling because of the attrition.

[Doug]

There's. Yeah, well, I mean, I don't think that's the only reason. They've just had a. Remember after Greg Glassman came out with the George Floyd stuff, the sexual harassment stuff? I mean, they've just been on. It's just been the. The kind of. The perfect storm for them. I mean, I think that they peaked 20, 19, 20, 20 stuff happened. He's outspoken. That didn't. It just didn't help. And it's been on this kind of downward. They were at peak. Peak affiliates, they were at 14,000 units, and now they're at 10,000. So 40.

[Adam Schafer]

40.

[Doug]

40 or 60% reduction.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah.

[Doug]

Doug.

[Adam Schafer]

No.

[Doug]

40. 40% reduction.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah.

[Unknown]

I think it's a little different than that, but.

[Doug]

Yeah.

[Unknown]

Something around there.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah.

[Doug]

Is that right?

[Unknown]

Well, you take 100, you say 14,000.

[Doug]

Yeah. 14. Down to 10,000.

[Unknown]

10,000.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah.

[Unknown]

I have to do the math.

[Doug]

Well, half. Half of. Half of.

[Adam Schafer]

Oh, it's 1/5 so 25%, is it 1? I think the point is it's 4,000 units gone.

[Doug]

Yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

That's crazy. I know.

[Doug]

It's a lot. That's a lot.

[Adam Schafer]

Selling.

[Doug]

Yeah. So they're trying to sell.

[Adam Schafer]

What do you think you're going to do? You think someone's going to buy them and try and apply more?

[Unknown]

So this is 28 and a half percent.

[Adam Schafer]

Oh, sea quarter.

[Unknown]

So it's like a loose affiliate. It's not even a franchise. Right. So it's like what are you really buying into other than just the name and the trademarking?

[Doug]

Yeah, the brand. Well, they get. They get a. It's the brand in French every time. Everybody who has get paid fee. Oh, yeah, those 10,000, that's automatic residual. Whoever buys it, it already sold. Did you know that?

[Adam Schafer]

No.

[Doug]

So it sold already?

[Unknown]

Berkshire or whatever.

[Doug]

Yeah. So it sold back in. Let me get my factory. I think it's 20 step down as CEO. 20, 20. 20, 2020. Is that what it says?

[Unknown]

Step down in 2020.

[Doug]

That's what you know. But they sold. They actually sold. And this would be the second time it's being sold.

[Unknown]

Yeah. Same year was sold in 20.

[Doug]

In 2020. Okay. So yeah, it sold. He stepped down and then now they're trying to sell again. I mean, I'm curious about what it sold for and then what it's going to sell for this time. And I mean, not that I ever. I wish anybody's business failed, but I mean, boy, I have to say we. We were talking for a very long time and trying to tell people that it's a fad, it's a trend, it's a sport. Okay. It is not a good way for most people to work out. Doesn't mean I don't have friends. Doesn't mean that I don't appreciate how cool it is. All the things. But it's just when you think about the ideal way to train the average person, Never once did I go in my CrossFit bag.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah.

[Doug]

To train a client.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah.

[Doug]

And I had that, by the way. We. We all went through it before any of you all got drank the Kool Aid.

[Adam Schafer]

Oh, yeah.

[Doug]

All of us trained through it.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah.

[Doug]

I did it when it was. When it was started in Santa Cruz. Before anybody knew what it was, we were around in my gym doing this stuff and I.

[Unknown]

And it's already problematic when I went through the workout.

[Doug]

This is not for my clients. It's cool for us trainers with ease, egos to compete with each other. But it was like, this is I'll never use this for training any of.

[Adam Schafer]

My clients, but I have tremendous respect with, for CrossFit for the things that it did change in the strength.

[Doug]

And we give the kudos. Culture wise. We give the kudos. They single handedly changed squatting and deadlifting for the average person.

[Adam Schafer]

They made it cool and they made women lift weights better than anybody else.

[Doug]

Nobody even used the word PR until they came around and they brought back.

[Adam Schafer]

And they brought back the importance of the culture of the gym.

[Doug]

Yeah.

[Unknown]

Each one of these modalities, they all have their flaws. And you know, like bodybuilding is one of those.

[Adam Schafer]

That's right.

[Unknown]

As well. Like, you know, if you're gonna go extreme and you get this association right away with like, oh, I gotta be a mass monster and here's how I gotta do that. By taking all these, you know, drugs and everything involved and then shot across the bow there, you know.

[Doug]

Yeah, appreciate that. Yeah. Well I will say this though. I, I 100% use the, the programming of bodybuilding with many of my clients. Yeah, that, that. So that's where CrossFit's always been flawed in that area.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah. I don't learn anything from their programming.

[Doug]

None.

[Adam Schafer]

No.

[Doug]

But bodybuilding, I mean I'd make the case that that style of training is probably one of the best ways you could train people long term.

[Adam Schafer]

Nothing has contributed to, to strength training like bodybuilding.

[Doug]

Yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

Bodybuilding is the original contributor.

[Doug]

Yes.

[Adam Schafer]

To strength training. And, and there's incredible value to take from some of the, to principles of bodybuilding. CrossFit did change some things. It's just the programming.

[Doug]

Well, it also brought it, it brought back something else that was important given its kudos too is like you know, functional, true functional training had kind of lost its favor and that, and that's where bodybuilding didn't do a good job.

[Adam Schafer]

That's right.

[Doug]

Bodybuilding was all aesthetic and all based off how we look and it lacked performance and mobility training in multi planes. Like it lacked that. And CrossFit really went hard in that direction. I really think there's something in the middle that is a beautiful kind of marriage where it's just like bodybuilding training most of the time integrated with this occasional block of functional type training. And I think that like if I looked at like I would take maps performance and like a bodybuilding type of a program and that the toggling back and forth would be a great elements.

[Unknown]

Yeah, there's elements.

[Doug]

Yeah, you're right. Sexy athlete bundle.

[Adam Schafer]

We have, we have that.

[Doug]

It's called sexy athlete and that's really one of the best ways to train the average person that likes all of that. Like, you like what CrossFit gives you as far as the type of body it gives you. Performance wise, that's everything we did in Master, if you guys remember that. That was the reason why we wrote Mass Performance was we came out early. A lot of the audience that hasn't been listening for 10 years doesn't know this.

[Adam Schafer]

It was an answer to it.

[Doug]

Yes. We talked so much about CrossFit early on, and it's programming that the audience was like, okay, well, what if I like doing this and I like doing that and I like the things that CrossFit gives me? How would you guys program it? And that was mass performance.

[Adam Schafer]

That's right.

[Doug]

That was the birth of that program. Was exactly that.

[Adam Schafer]

Absolutely. All right. I got to mention this, by the way, because we're supposed to talk about Z Biotics, but I didn't have any this weekend. Have you guys drank without it recently?

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

Sucks.

[Doug]

He can. I can't. Yeah, I won't even. So there's.

[Adam Schafer]

I had. I had one and a half glasses of wine. One and a half. Okay. I had it twice, you know, two different days. And I feel it the next day.

[Doug]

Yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

When you do the Z Biotics, the, you know, they like, they call it pre alcohol now. Way different. Way different. It's remarkable.

[Doug]

It's the only thing that'll get me to have a drink if we're somewhere.

[Adam Schafer]

Oh, if you don't have it, you want.

[Doug]

Yeah, I don't even want to mess with it. Katrina carries it in her purse. Most all of our family members have it at their house. And so if I'm gonna enjoy, even if it's just a drink or two, I don't have to go ham and be drinking five, six.

[Adam Schafer]

Oh, yeah, I don't like to go ham.

[Doug]

Yeah. Sometimes one or two drinks sounds nice to me. But then I also know how I'll feel afterwards if I don't do that.

[Adam Schafer]

So always if I messed up my sleep and then the next day I felt off. My heart rate is different without it.

[Doug]

That's a diagnosis at night, right.

[Adam Schafer]

Like, I go to bed and it's like my heart. Like, I had one glass of wine.

[Unknown]

A lot harder for sure.

[Adam Schafer]

Oh, sucks. Element is the best electrolyte powder you'll find anywhere. Has the right amount of sodium. Most of them don't have enough sodium to make a difference. Elements. Got a thousand milligrams per serving plus no sugar, no artificial sweeteners it tastes great. It's good for good pumps, good for energy. Especially good if you're on a low carb diet. Go check them out. Go to drinklement.com forward/mind pump. You'll get a free sample pack with any drink mix purchase if you go on that link. All right, back to the show.

[Unknown]

Our first caller is Amanda from California.

Hi, Amanda.

[Doug]

How you doing, Amanda?

[Sal DiStefano]

Oh, my God, this is so exciting. I am super, super nervous. So I'm just going to read what I have here, if that's okay.

[Doug]

Just this too.

[Sal DiStefano]

Okay.

[Doug]

Always.

[Sal DiStefano]

So thank you guys so much for all the content you put out. I started listening to you guys in 202020 after Brett Contreras was on one of your podcasts and I haven't stopped listening since. You guys are amazing. Thank you so much for all the things you do for women's fitness. It's amazing. You've changed the way that I look at everything, so I really, really appreciate it. So my question, do body proportions or body type play a significant role in the way someone is able to change their body through resistance training? For example, I have an extremely short torso, really long legs and really long arms. And I feel like it makes it extremely difficult for me to lose weight in my midsection and it takes a lot longer for me to have the appearance of muscle gains in my arms and my legs. I'm wondering if there's any validity to this or am I just making an excuse for not working out hard enough or being disciplined enough? My stomach is my biggest insecurity and has been since having my daughters. My youngest is 5 and I have a 9 year old. And I really want to get rid of my stomach and not be one of those moms that's has a 20 year old and is still blaming their kids for their stomach. So any suggestions would be wonderful.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah, so of course you're.

[Unknown]

Yeah, definitely. Body proportions, length of limbs, muscle, belly length, your ability to build muscle, a lot of that's influenced by your genetics. The length of your limbs, for example, in your torso. That's set, right? We can't change that. Yeah, but you could definitely work with it. I mean, I'm seeing you now on, on here on camera and you look pretty fit. You've got really nice looking shoulders and arms.

[Adam Schafer]

How long have you been working out?

[Sal DiStefano]

For like 10 years, minus having when I had my girls. But let me tell you, it's deceiving because I realize that I look very thin, like on top. But my, I do have a midsection My legs are long and lean as well, so I feel like I'm just. There's not very much space between my ribs and my hips. So I know when people look at me like up top, they're like, oh yeah, she looks fit. Deceiving.

[Unknown]

Yeah, well, I think you probably are fit if you work it out for 10 years. But my whole point with that was just we can be a lot harder on ourselves than, than is necessary. Nonetheless, getting leaner is the same, you know, strategy for everybody, generally speaking. Right. You, you want a high protein diet, calorie deficit, strength training, that kind of stuff. Do you know what your body fat percent asks?

[Doug]

What's your body fat percentage?

[Sal DiStefano]

I went yesterday and got an inbody which I know is not the most accurate, but it said it's 23.9.

[Unknown]

You're great.

[Doug]

Yeah, you're a good percentage.

[Unknown]

You're at a very good body fat percentage. Healthy. I mean, you could try getting below 20, but then now you're playing with where it starts to get really hard to maintain. But 23% is excellent body fat percent.

[Sal DiStefano]

Which I don't want, I don't want to be in an unhealthy position at all. I just so badly want my stomach not, not even to match the rest of me. Like I'm not looking to have a six pack, nothing like that. Just not have it look like I had kids or like, you know, I don't know.

[Unknown]

Is it body fat or is it.

[Sal DiStefano]

The muscle body fat? Okay, I really. It's body fat. Like, it's okay.

[Unknown]

There's, it's there now. Was it that changed after we had children? You said yes. Okay?

[Sal DiStefano]

Yes. And that's the only thing. I mean, I weigh 150 pounds right now. I'm five seven. And when I had my girls for both of them, I didn't go above like 165. I've always been at this weight range. It's just my stomach.

[Adam Schafer]

Are you so.

[Unknown]

Okay, how many days a week do you strength train and what does that look like?

[Sal DiStefano]

Three days a week. I'm doing Muscle Mommy right now. And I'm on the third phase, which is this is the first time I've worked out like that and it's fantastic.

[Doug]

So last time you checked. Hormones.

[Unknown]

Yeah. Hormones can affect fat. Body fat, Never.

[Sal DiStefano]

I've never done that.

[Doug]

Okay, that's worse.

[Unknown]

Would you be open to. So you have two kids?

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah.

[Unknown]

Are you done having kids?

[Sal DiStefano]

Yeah.

[Unknown]

Oh, yeah. So hormone therapy is another route and it can change the distribution of body fat on Your body. So you tend. Sometimes people will see this as they get older or after they have children, where they'll store it in places that they didn't before. That can sometimes be connected to things like insulin sensitivity issues, thyroid issues. Now you don't have to be like, if you go to your general practitioner, they'll test you and say you're all within range.

[Doug]

This is. This is.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah.

[Doug]

This is Dr. Lauren Fritz's story.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Doug]

Have you. Did you follow her after our episode with her? Do you follow her?

[Sal DiStefano]

I'm still catching up.

[Doug]

I have not seen that one jump to that episode. Okay. Dr. Lauren Fritz and she talks a lot about after having kids and her hormones going off and doing all the things and not being able to lose stomach fat. Going to her normal general practitioner, them saying, oh, your hormones are fine. But then actually going to a hormone specialist, getting it balanced out and figuring that out. And it was life changing for her. So she talks all about that on her social media. She was a great interview and we sent a lot of people her way. That's definitely a worthwhile place to check for you.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah.

[Unknown]

Because what they'll do is they'll look at what's. What's optimal. Not that you're range, but let's try optimizing. So could be some thyroid, progesterone, testosterone, typically combination of two of those. And then what you start to notice is fat distribution starts to change in the body.

[Doug]

I do want to circle back to what Sal early said to you though. Like 23% is. So to give you some perspective, most of my career I had a training staff of 15 to 20 trainers underneath me at all times. Five to seven of them were females. A lot of them many times competed in women's bikini. And the best shape ones I had carried themselves around 19 body fat. I mean, and they were fit as hell. Lean year round looked incredible. 19 body fat. So 23 is. Is a really good place to be. You're not in an unhealthy at all. You're in a fit place. But I get. You could be stored. You could be hormonally storing extra body fat in your stomach area for the reasons that we're talking about right now. So it is worth exploring that And I think Dr. Lauren will be a really good person to look into.

[Adam Schafer]

Yep.

[Sal DiStefano]

Okay. Do you think that I should try to cut at all or that's.

[Unknown]

Yeah, yeah, you could definitely try. Try cutting. And I would even sometimes fat storage in the midsection, it can be correlated with maybe some insulin sensitivity issues. So you could try cutting and you could try doing a cut with a lower carbohydrate diet to see if that makes a difference. Now, that's not like, you know, a cut is doing the big thing. The low carb part is doing something real small. But see if you notice a greater effect or something.

[Doug]

There is also that possibility too, Sal. I mean, you. Have you ever done anything where you've done like an elimination diet, too, to see if there's foods?

[Adam Schafer]

I have.

[Sal DiStefano]

As far as diet, honestly, I. I am very good about making sure I get my protein. And beyond that, I pretty much eat whatever. And I eat definitely in a higher calorie range. I'm not restrictive at all. So I've just always been scared to go into a cut because I don't want to ruin and make things worse.

[Adam Schafer]

Oh, I see.

[Sal DiStefano]

If that makes sense.

[Unknown]

Yeah. You know, I mean, you could track for a week. Just don't. No judge. And then see where the calories fall and then go into 500 calorie deficit. Maybe try dropping the carbs a little bit.

[Sal DiStefano]

And how long. How long would you do that for? How many weeks would you do a cut?

[Unknown]

Like, you know, if you're going to drop. If you're at 23%, we want to drop off 3%, probably six weeks. Six to.

[Adam Schafer]

Six to eight.

[Unknown]

Okay.

[Doug]

Are you. Are you in. Are you in our private forum yet or.

[Sal DiStefano]

No, I am.

[Doug]

Okay, good. If you just update us in there and tag the guys, we'll keep an eye on it. So just let us know the feedback. I've had this too, with some of my clients. You can have, like, low levels of, like, inflammation happening from foods that you just don't agree with, but you don't realize it. That will just sometimes it's not fat. It's just water retention and bloat, and it feels like it's bloat all the time.

[Sal DiStefano]

Okay.

[Doug]

And you could be. You could have something in your diet on the regular and you don't even realize it because it's not like it's really messing you up, but it's enough to just keep you mildly inflamed all the time.

[Sal DiStefano]

Yeah.

[Doug]

And that mild inflammation, a lot of times, especially in the gut area, people perceive it as fat. And it's like, oh, I'm fatter. And it's like, well, really is. You're just kind of always inflamed because you have this food that is always reoccurring in your diet that your body just doesn't 100 agree with. So there's. So I would. I would explore hormones, and then I would also explore, like, you know, tracking food for a while and starting to try eliminating some of the things that are most commonly intolerant to people and see if you notice differences there. And. And a lot of times you'll. This is obvious if you do like a. A one day fast, and after a one day fast, all of a sudden your stomach looks way flatter and it's like, whoa, that's a good idea. So that a lot of times just eliminating all food for 24 hours, and then if it looks like you lost 10 pounds of body fat because of that, it's like, oh, well, maybe because you didn't. You didn't lose 10 pounds of fat in 24 hours. You just brought down all the inflammation. And so maybe you have something in there that's kind of an easy way to.

[Unknown]

Are you, have you ever worked with a coach? Are you open to working with a coach?

[Sal DiStefano]

No, I haven't, but, I mean, yeah, I. I think it would probably be good.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah. You know, you would be a great.

[Unknown]

Candidate just because you've been doing this for so long. You got a great attitude. I'll have somebody call you. We have coaches that work for Mind Pump, so I'll have somebody reach out to you because, you know, through this process, you kind of figure out what's going on. And I don't think this is going to be an un. I think this is a very solvable issue, for sure.

[Doug]

It's going to be one of the things we're pointing at right now. It's going to be either hormonal, something like that. It could be just a slight calorie deficit. It. Or it could be a food you're intolerant to that's just always been in your diet. And simply getting rid of that food group could solve something for you. So it's solvable for sure.

[Sal DiStefano]

All right, awesome. Thank you so, so much. Amazing.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah.

[Unknown]

Thanks for calling.

[Sal DiStefano]

Thank you. Take care.

[Unknown]

You know, the hormone one is a big one. And women notice this more than men generally. And not that men don't experience this, but what women will say is something along the lines of suddenly, yeah, I started getting body fat in my midsection. All of a sudden I'm gaining body fat in areas I never gained body fat before.

I've especially heard that if there's been like, after the second kid.

[Adam Schafer]

Yes.

[Unknown]

And it changes, like, drastically. And I know, like, my wife even experienced that too, and it was a complete shift.

[Doug]

What's Your. What's your opinion on why? I've heard the same thing. Second kid seems to do it. Yeah. I've heard so many women talk about the first kid, I didn't know it was the second kid. Why do you think it's the second kid that does that?

[Unknown]

Well, there's a few times in your life, this would be my theory.

[Doug]

Right.

[Unknown]

There's a few times in your life you'll actually add fat cells to your body. Puberty and then third trimester of pregnancy. So that could be part of it. Could also be insulin sensitivity. I mean, being pregnant and then suddenly becoming pre diabetic is relatively common. And then also sometimes it's this. The second or third or fourth kid tends to be correlated with the fact that the woman now is in her mid to late 30s.

It's a little later.

Mid to late 30s, you start to get closer to perimenopause hormonal changes and that changes fat.

[Doug]

I would add also that a lot of times the clients that would express this to me, they went into the first pregnancy in incredible shape or the best shape of their life. They went in the second pregnancy.

[Unknown]

They ran it back to back sometimes.

[Doug]

Yeah. And nowhere near the same. And so coming out of it, it seems to be more. I'm sure it's probably all those factors.

[Unknown]

But the hormones play a role in fat distribution. And again, as trainers, we would dismiss it quite often. Oh, you didn't just suddenly change. Because we were taught that it doesn't change. But it definitely changes.

It does.

Our next caller is Randy from Tennessee.

What's up, Randy?

[Doug]

What's going on, Randy?

[Unknown]

What's happening?

Morning, gentlemen. Thanks for having me on. I appreciate it.

[Adam Schafer]

Big one of the show.

[Unknown]

It's super informative show you got. I've been really enjoying listening the past six months since I started listening.

[Doug]

Awesome. Thank you.

[Adam Schafer]

Got a.

[Unknown]

Got a question about race to sleep here, if I could. I'll just take a minute to give you the quick context so you know where I'm at and how I came to this question.

[Doug]

Okay.

[Unknown]

I'm in the army. I've been in for about 12 years. I've been training, weightlifting and running for quite a while because it pertains to what we do in the army. I ended up going through a period of overtraining back in the fall, September through early December. Just making the typical mistakes people make when they over train. Doing too much volume, pushing myself too hard on running and weightlifting and wearing myself out. I even ended up injuring my lower back about a week before Christmas I was doing barbell bent over rows. Looks like it's a bulging disc is what the issue is. So at that point I knew I had to stop everything I was doing. Just stopped all exercise for a week and a half. Actually did the over training rescue guide which helped quite a bit. So thank you for putting that out, that was super helpful. And at that point, all of a sudden my sleep started to get really good. Right around the week of Christmas was getting solid eight hours a night, good quality sleep. Waking up feeling refreshed, thought everything was good to go. And I thought it was because I stopped overtraining because that overtraining can affect sleep. And then I started doing a Maps 15 Performance and Maps prime in the first week of January to start. Start doing something while still allowing my back to be able to heal. And then all of a sudden, the middle of January, my sleep started to get real bad again. I say again because I do have a history of insomnia and I have mild sleep apnea. So it's far from the first time. I've had real problems with sleep, but at that point I couldn't figure out what would cause me to. I started waking up in the middle of the night and just couldn't go back to sleep. And I thought everything was the same. I thought nothing had changed. Couldn't figure out what might have changed that affected my sleep. And all of a sudden it dawned on me there was one thing that had changed. This was right after y'all made the episode about eggs, talking about all the nutritional benefits of eggs and the anabolic effects and stuff. After that, I decided to try starting to eat six eggs a day. And then all of a sudden my sleep got bad and I thought, is it possible? What are the odds that even a lot of eggs can actually affect sleep? Have y'all heard of anything like this before?

[Doug]

If you're intolerant to them?

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah, it's possible.

[Doug]

It's possible, but not likely, not probable.

[Unknown]

But it is possible. And the only thing, well, if you have a food, if you have an intolerance to a food, depending on the severity of it, you'll get what's like a mild immune reaction. So it'll raise cortisol, it'll raise kind of inflammatory markers which can definitely influence sleep and have. And cause your sleep to get worse. So that's an easy test.

[Doug]

Also could still be recovering too.

[Unknown]

It's unlikely because typically sleep issues are not a result of an intolerance. Usually when there's an intolerance, that's causing the issue. The person knows because it causes digestive distress. But it's definitely possible. And eggs are what? One of the most commonly, especially egg whites, one of the most common foods that people are intolerant to.

[Adam Schafer]

So the easy test, cut them out.

[Unknown]

Of your diet and see what happens.

Yeah, I tried twice. I tried cutting them out for just a couple days and there was no change. I could try longer now. I had already been eating about two eggs a day for six months prior with no issues.

[Doug]

That's probably not it then.

[Unknown]

I didn't know if maybe they increased it.

[Doug]

That's probably not it then, bro.

[Unknown]

Probably not.

[Adam Schafer]

But cut it out for.

[Unknown]

Cut it out for at least 10 days to see if it makes a difference. And then you said nothing changed. Were you still doing maps 15 or did you ramp up?

Yeah, I was doing maps 15 performance and maps Prime. I do like the pre primers. They do the MAP15 performance exercise and the post primer.

[Doug]

Okay.

[Unknown]

And that was all I was doing every day.

[Doug]

No crazy runs or anything like that too, on top of it?

[Unknown]

No, not. Nothing like that.

Have you ever. Have you taken.

I was baffled as to why my sleep got bad again all of a sudden.

Have you tried taking magnesium before bed?

Yeah, I've been taking about 800mg magnesium for bed for probably a year now.

Okay. And then any life stressors?

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah.

[Unknown]

Oh, well, there's always life stressors.

[Doug]

Yeah.

[Unknown]

Nothing. Nothing new, though.

So nothing new. Now are you able to honestly say, like, I don't know if maybe it's bothering me more? I mean, it could be eggs again, but it's typically not.

[Adam Schafer]

It's.

[Unknown]

It's so. And again, cut them out. Cut them out for 10, 10 days and then see, you know, see how that is. Otherwise I would look at other things, you know, I would try, you know, long static stretching before bed.

What does it look like, the ritual before bed? Like, what did he do before?

I'm sorry, say again?

What does your ritual look like before you go to bed? Like, like for a long time since.

Since I first struggled with insomnia, summer 2022, I've been doing like all the standard sleep hygiene practices. Like no blue light an hour before bed, having a wind down routine reading for about 30 minutes before bed helps something wind down. I. After y'all made that episode, talk about five things that can help sleep. That's when I started doing static stretching for a couple minutes. I tried, tried the eating more carbs at dinner thing. I'm taking, taking a lot of supplements I'm basically taking all the stuff that's in the. The Legions Lunair supplement. I happen to already have all the components of that on hand, so I'm taking those separately, basically taking that.

And so the part.

[Doug]

The reason why Sal's asking, trying to dive into the stress part is because it's. What's interesting to me is that that.

[Unknown]

Can always be a factor.

[Doug]

Well, you took. You took a week off and you got the best sleep ever. Right. So it sounded like you really need. It sounded like you really needed that. And also you get this great sleep. Then all of a sudden you pick up math 15, which is definitely where we'd probably put you as far as the protocol of lifting. So you didn't go crazy on the training. But if the rest of your stress, stress bucket is already tip top and then any sort of training is tipping it over, it could start to affect that. So really evaluate. I mean, I would even test that again, like the eggs test that and then even test taking another week off of training again. And if you get great sleep again by not training, you might just be. It could also be still recovering from the injury, that stress on the body. If you're still pretty injured and you're.

[Adam Schafer]

Still kind of sure that's a factor.

[Doug]

Gritting through it, and then you got personal stress going on, and then you're also training, that could be affecting it. You could just be at the top of your stress bucket of all combined stressors and even the little bit of training right now. And so, you know, maybe do a week of like mobility only like recovery type training, more working inward, stretching, that type of stuff. Maybe just not avoid weights and see what happens. And if you had to think about that and if you see a positive change again from cutting back, you might just have a lot of stuff going on right now. And the combination of the injury and all of it together is just too much. And your body's trying to tell you.

[Unknown]

You know, it'd be a good test for you would be Dr. Cabral's cortisol test, just to see what that looks like throughout the day. I think that would be a good test for you to see if you have. If your cortisol is converted. Yeah. And that I was wondering if there.

Might be some chemical or hormone off that could be it too.

That would be the starting point.

I had that tested in the past.

Cortisol has not been a problem.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah.

[Unknown]

Dr. Cabral has a cortisol test that you could take. And so what you do is you do saliva first thing in the morning. Then it's like before breakfast, before lunch, before dinner, and then right before bed. And we're looking at our patterns of cortisol throughout the day.

[Doug]

We just all did ours.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah, we just did ours recently.

[Unknown]

Yeah, I'd like to do that. You talked about stressor. Stressors could be an issue. I've been going through a major life transition the past year. Divorce, resetting myself from that.

[Doug]

So that's a factor too. Yeah, I mean, and that's just. It is. Sometimes we don't. Especially a guy like you. I'm sure, sure you've, you've been trained to handle a lot more than the average person. And so you don't think of those things as like a major. I mean that's a major stress in most everybody's life. And then you have a major injury. So I mean the, the easy way to test that again is to take a week off. And if all of a sudden you get great sleep again, bro, from taking it off, that's a clear sign that you're just. You got a lot on your plate right now. And this is a time in your life when your training should start to look more recovery based than it should look like trying to push the weights.

[Unknown]

Right?

Yeah, I did think about that. Only, only hang up with that. Is I have to take the army combat fitness test on April 7th. I feel like if I take a break now might impede my training to perform, to train for that.

How hard is that test for you?

Yeah, for me, not really. There's, there's. I, I do really well on all the events. I got the max score on almost all the events when I last took it in September. Except for the ball throw.

[Adam Schafer]

The one.

[Unknown]

You have to throw a 10 pound medicine ball behind your head.

[Adam Schafer]

Okay.

[Unknown]

I just have a hard time throwing it far enough. But that's technique I can practice.

Yeah, you can practice the test, you know, three weeks before.

Other than that, I'm not worried about passing the test.

[Adam Schafer]

Okay. Yeah.

[Unknown]

Then you're. Then I wouldn't worry too much about it then.

Okay.

[Doug]

Yeah, yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

But let's go.

[Unknown]

Go to Dr. What's Dr. Stephen Cabral's website? Doug, is it?

Yeah, stephen cabral.com.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah.

[Unknown]

And look at his cortisol test.

S T E P H E N. Cabral.

Yeah, yeah, I know a little about cortisol. That'd be interesting to do that test. See what, see what happens.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah. Just see if it's inverted.

[Unknown]

Sometimes you'll get like this low cortisol in the morning it's hard to wake up. You got to take caffeine to get going. Then it starts to elevate it and it stays high at night, which totally messes up your sleep. Waking up in the middle night is a telltale sign.

[Doug]

I mean there's three main things, right. We try out, try getting rid of the eggs, see if that does something. I don't think it's that the other one would be. The other one would be resting. I think it has something more to do with all the stressors, bro. I think, I think if I test will show that. Yeah, the cortisol test will show that. In the meantime though, you could take a week off of training and see what happens also. And I think that's going to be a clear indicator if you all sudden get great sleep. So you know, play with those things.

[Unknown]

Yeah, okay. That sounds good.

[Adam Schafer]

All right.

[Doug]

I'd love to hear about, let us know how it goes though. Okay.

[Unknown]

Yeah, yeah, I can, I can definitely do that.

[Doug]

All right, Randy.

[Unknown]

Thank you.

Thanks gentlemen. Appreciate it.

[Adam Schafer]

You got it.

[Doug]

You know, major divorce, major injury divorce. Yes, bro. This, he just went through a divorce this year.

[Unknown]

These are life, life changing divorce.

[Doug]

A divor.

[Unknown]

You're going to be stressed out.

[Doug]

Yes. I mean you. Have you not said that that was the. One of the most stressful parts of your entire life?

[Adam Schafer]

Easy.

[Unknown]

Nothing more stressful.

[Doug]

Yes.

[Adam Schafer]

And it lasts for five. Like five.

[Doug]

I just think you always got to remember when you talk to a 12 year military guy like their, their definition of stress is different than the average person. He's like, no, I'm fine.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah. You know what's weird about it too function.

[Unknown]

True story.

[Adam Schafer]

I got.

[Unknown]

When I left, when I finally made the decision. We got divorced the next day or two days after I hit a PR in most of my lifts that wired stress turned into performance. And it fools you, fools you for a while until you burn out. You burn all that out and then you start hitting some balls.

[Doug]

I think he knows he was already a chronically over trainer. He knew that it led to a major injury in his body. Has a major life changing event. I think even maps 15, it's just he needs a little more time.

[Unknown]

Yep.

[Doug]

He needs a little more time and a slower. And I, I bet you his Even version of Maps 15 is different than that PR. The normal Maps 15 person.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah.

[Doug]

Who knows? He gets after it even in like. I mean it's a, it's a military dude. You got to think how you do anything, how you do everything right. So I think That I, I bet if he takes a week off of training again, he gets good sleep, and that's probably what's happening.

[Unknown]

Our next caller is Tim from North Carolina.

What's up, Tim?

[Doug]

What's going on, Tim?

[Unknown]

What's happening?

[Justin Andrews]

Hey, greetings from North Kakalaki.

[Doug]

What's up, man?

[Unknown]

How you doing?

[Justin Andrews]

Great, man.

[Unknown]

How can we help you?

[Justin Andrews]

Well, I had a question. I'm 54 years old, and obviously sarcopenia is a real concern as I progress in age. And it seems like for some reason, all of my social media feeds keep getting bombarded with ads from these supplement companies selling a myostatin blocker, if anyone's not heard of that. Basically, it's. Myostatin is supposed to be the protein that hinders. That hinders muscle growth after a while, is supposed to be part of the reason you plateau in muscle growth. And, and on the, on the ad, it shows these pictures, these super muscular cows.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

And they're like, why are these cows keep building these muscles? You know, it's because they don't have myostatin. And, you know, I'm getting very cynical in my old age. And, and I'm like, come on, guys. You know, I'm like, is it. Is this just another.

[Adam Schafer]

Yes, it is.

[Justin Andrews]

Supplement fad.

[Adam Schafer]

Yes, it is.

[Doug]

Yes, it is.

[Adam Schafer]

Okay.

[Unknown]

Yeah, I'm very familiar with myostatin. So those studies were done a long time ago. And what they did is they genetically modified animals. Although there is a Belgian Blue Bull that was bred this way, and they're incredibly heavily muscled. That's probably what you see. And it's due to the myostatin gene being inhibited. And they did it through breeding. They didn't know what they were doing, but they bred them that way. But you can see the studies on mice, on dogs, and it's radical. It's ridiculous.

[Adam Schafer]

It's crazy looking like there's a whippet.

[Unknown]

Which is like a very skinny, fast dog, and there was one that's like myostatin inhibited. And it looks like the Incredible Hulk became a dog. It's really crazy. Nonetheless, you know, so that, that flew all over the bodybuilding and fitness world. And so they're trying to sell you supplements that do that. Well, they don't. They don't do it like the genetic modifications do. If you want, like the most effective myostatin inhibitor, creatine, creatine has been shown to do that. But that's not why creatine really makes you build muscle. It's not because it inhibits myostatin to some, you know, crazy degree.

[Doug]

Well, in a true blocker, you would die, right Sal?

[Unknown]

I mean, no, you wouldn't die. You would, you would, you would. It would be crazy. It would be, it would make steroids look like, you know, Flintstone vitamins. But no, there's no supplement out there that does this. It's, it's all fad marketing. It's all crap. It's all the, the stuff you hear us talk about is the stuff that actually help. Creatine's at the top of that. Everything else is far below.

[Adam Schafer]

But I, you know, when it comes.

[Unknown]

To sarcopenia, as a man, if you lift weights, yeah, you're fine.

That's your, all you got to do.

It's not going to happen. Yeah, it's not going to happen. If you, if you continue to strength train you, you won't, you won't have to worry about, you know, losing bone density or, or lots of muscle mass.

[Justin Andrews]

Okay, awesome. I appreciate your time. I kind of was thinking through that, that whole thing, even, even if it did block myostatin and you were able to, you know, grow crazy muscles, you'd eventually get to the point to where your muscle strength would override your, your tendons and ligaments.

[Doug]

Yeah, sure.

[Justin Andrews]

And supportive tissues and you'd be popping tendons and leg.

[Doug]

For sure. For sure. I mean, we see that happening even with just steroids. Steroids, yeah, yeah, because steroids grow the muscle so fast.

[Unknown]

It'll be interesting to see because. Or it would be interesting to see that. I, you know, there's been a lot of speculation that pro bodybuilders, I mean, I had one in the studio yesterday. I had seven time Mr. Olympia Phil Heath in here and he was talking about, I mean, you see pictures of him playing basketball and he looks like an amateur bodybuilder. The speculation is that some people genetically have this gene, you know, relatively inhibited. And those are the genetic freaks that we see out there, like the Brock Lesnar's where just, they just like, you know, you. And you can tell when they're a baby. You could tell when they're five years old. They're just stronger and more muscular than everybody around them, you know, type of deal.

So their potential is much higher.

Yeah, but we have no, we have yet to find a medical intervention aside from actual gene therapy that would do that effectively. And then, you know, Adam brings up a good point. If we do that to somebody who wasn't born that way, I'm sure they're going to be downstream effects and Potential negatives. Like what does that mean for the rest of the body and their health? But you know, one day when they do figure that out, which they probably will, it'll make anabolic steroids look like vitamin C. That's how, that's the, that's how crazy the potential is. But there is no supplement that does that, so don't waste your money.

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

Awesome.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

All right, well, I appreciate your time, guys. Excuse me. And, and I just wanted to kind of get this on, on people's radar because if I'm seeing it, I can't be the only one.

[Doug]

Yeah, no, it's everywhere.

[Justin Andrews]

You know, there's. I know that a lot of people will just see an ad with big promises and they're like, oh, let me order that. And you know, and number one, it won't deliver the promises. And then, and then number two, you never know because it's unregulated and you never know what's in all that stuff. So there might be, you know, something in it that you have a contraindication to or potentially make you sick or even worse.

[Unknown]

Usually Viagra. Sprinkle that in there.

[Justin Andrews]

Could be, it could be mess with lace with fentanyl or something.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah, yeah, Absolutely.

[Doug]

Appreciate that, man.

[Unknown]

All right, dude.

[Justin Andrews]

All right, thanks guys.

[Doug]

Have a great day.

[Unknown]

I mean I, I knew as soon as I saw those studies come out.

[Adam Schafer]

Like, oh, this was. By the way, those are old.

[Unknown]

Those, those, those myostatin studies now have to be at least 15. 15 years old. Yeah, I mean I knew when I saw them, I was like, oh, you just. They figure out how to do this and people we're going to start seeing, you know, 300 pound quarterbacks.

You know, I wonder what those ads look like. I haven't seen any yet. I've seen them on the Internet. Internet, but not like on social media.

I mean they're crazy looking pictures.

[Doug]

I mean they do have like crazy animals scared to death to take something like that.

[Unknown]

I mean, that level.

[Doug]

I mean that's 20 year old.

[Adam Schafer]

Do you be scared to death?

[Doug]

Yeah, even 20 year old.

[Adam Schafer]

Really?

[Doug]

Milestone. Have you seen the whippets and the. That's a little crazy.

[Adam Schafer]

20 year old Sal would have been like, I'll take.

[Doug]

Oh, you're crazy, bro.

[Unknown]

46.

[Adam Schafer]

But it's funny, you know, we interviewed.

[Unknown]

Phil Heath and you talk to these pros and these, these, you know, and they're just, they just build muscle on accident.

[Doug]

Yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

It's just ridiculous.

[Unknown]

So they barely have to try.

If you like the show, come find us on Instagra Justin is at Mind Pump Justin I'm at Mind Pump distefano and Adam is at mindpump.

Thank you for listening to Mind Pump. If your goal is to build and shape your body, dramatically improve your health and energy, and maximize your overall performance, check out our discounted RGB super [e-mail] the RGB Super Bundle includes Maps, Anabolic Maps, Performance and Maps Aesthetic nine months of phased expert exper exercise programming designed by Sal, Adam and Justin to systematically transform the way your body looks, feels and performs with detailed workout blueprints and over 200 videos. The RGB Super Bundle is like having Sal, Adam and Justin as your own personal trainers, but at a fraction of the price. The RGB Super Bundle has a full 30 day money back guarantee and you can get it now. Plus other valuable free [e-mail] if you enjoy this show, please share the love by leaving us a five star rating and review on itunes and by introducing Mind Pump to your friends and family. We thank you for your support and until next time, this is Mind Pump.