2569: How to Build the Perfect Fitness Routine & More (Listener Live Coaching)

Summary

Mind Pump: Raw Fitness Truth Episode 2569 Summary

Title: How to Build the Perfect Fitness Routine & More (Listener Live Coaching)
Hosts: Sal Di Stefano, Adam Schafer, Justin Andrews
Produced by: Doug Egge
Release Date: April 5, 2025

In episode 2569 of Mind Pump: Raw Fitness Truth, the hosts delve deep into constructing an ideal fitness routine tailored for balance, sustainability, and overall health. The episode features insightful discussions, listener live coaching segments, and expert advice on various aspects of fitness and nutrition.

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1. The Myth of the Perfect Fitness Routine ([03:08])

Sal Di Stefano introduces the central theme: the elusive "perfect" fitness routine. Emphasizing that such a routine doesn't exist, Sal advocates for a balanced approach that integrates strength, mobility, endurance, and flexibility while fitting seamlessly into one's schedule.

Sal Di Stefano ([03:08]): "The perfect fitness routine doesn't even exist. Now what am I talking about? I'm talking about being strong, fit, healthy, mobile. You got everything. Oh, and it works with your schedule."

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2. Strength Training: The Foundation ([03:28] - [05:51])

Adam Schafer and Doug Egge discuss the pivotal role of strength training. Contrary to popular belief that frequent workouts are necessary, they highlight research and experience suggesting that 1-2 strength training sessions per week are sufficient for most individuals to build and maintain strength without overtraining.

Doug Egge ([04:25]): "I think we overcomplicate that part of it. A good full-body routine, doing those big compound lifts, not neglecting things like rotational, unilateral stuff... you can build a very functional, strong, good-looking physique with two days a week of training."

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3. Incorporating General Movement: The 10,000 Steps Goal ([07:44] - [09:30])

The conversation shifts to the importance of daily movement. The hosts advocate for accumulating 8,000 to 10,000 steps daily to reap the health benefits associated with being active every day. They stress that consistent movement, beyond structured workouts, is crucial for overall health.

Adam Schafer ([07:44]): "The data is very clear on this. Moving every day is important, but you don't have to work out every day. So what does this look like? It looks like steps."

Doug Egge shares personal insights on transitioning from undervaluing steps to recognizing their impact on metabolism and overall activity levels.

Doug Egge ([09:30]): "A lot of people think in order to look a certain way and be so fit and muscular, you have to be training in the gym five, seven days a week to look like that. And it's not true at all."

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4. Stamina Training: Running for Endurance ([14:10] - [16:38])

Building stamina is another critical component. The hosts recommend incorporating running half a mile to a mile, once or twice a week, to enhance cardiovascular endurance. They emphasize treating running as a skill that requires gradual progression to prevent injury and maximize benefits.

Adam Schafer ([14:25]): "And stamina is important... This is why it's such a good way to train stamina. And stamina is an important thing to train."

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5. Flexibility and Mobility: Evening Stretching ([16:39] - [17:57])

Adam Schafer highlights the significance of flexibility in maintaining mobility and promoting a parasympathetic state conducive to restful sleep. He recommends 10 minutes of static stretching before bed, targeting areas that typically feel tight, combined with deep breathing exercises.

Adam Schafer ([16:38]): "Flexibility is a component of mobility... Static stretching is great for this. The best time to do this is before bed because it does induce a parasympathetic state, and it will help your sleep."

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6. Functional Movement and Community Engagement ([17:57] - [20:27])

The hosts discuss integrating functional movements into daily life through activities such as playing with children or engaging in recreational sports. They underline the importance of community and relationships in fostering long-term health and well-being.

Doug Egge ([18:56]): "If we're building like the perfect ideal fitness routine, which the desired outcome is healthy. Right. Overall, overall health, like this is the ultimate."

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7. Listener Call: Cold Therapy and Muscle Growth ([26:38] - [29:10])

A listener raises concerns about a study claiming cold plunges reduce muscle growth by up to 66%. The hosts dissect the study, arguing that while cold therapy might blunt muscle gains in a controlled setting, its real-world application—such as aiding recovery for athletes to train more consistently—retains its value. They caution against misinterpreting studies without considering practical contexts.

Adam Schafer ([26:47]): "Research has found that using cold plunges after lifting can actually blunt muscle growth and strength gains... Despite training identically, cold plungers saw 66% smaller increases in muscle growth."

Doug Egge ([27:58]): "But what if you allowed them just to do their thing? And what happens when the person who's cold plunging actually does more volume or does more work the next workout because of that... then what happens?"

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8. Minimal Strength Training Yields Significant Results ([33:13] - [34:44])

Adam Schafer presents a compelling study where older adults engaged in one exercise, three sets of five reps, once a week, achieved a 33% increase in strength over six weeks. This underscores the efficacy of even minimal strength training in enhancing muscle function and quality of life.

Adam Schafer ([33:13]): "They took older adults... all they did is show up and do three sets of exercise. Over a six week period, they all gained on average, 33% increase in strength."

Doug Egge ([34:04]): "One exercise once also... It shows how great strength training is."

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9. Listener Coaching: Weight Management and Strength Maintenance ([58:02] - [70:44])

Jason from Colorado seeks advice on reducing body weight while maintaining muscle mass. The hosts recommend a slow, gradual calorie deficit combined with increased cardio to achieve sustainable fat loss without sacrificing strength. They emphasize the importance of dietary adjustments and consistent movement to support Jason's active lifestyle.

Adam Schafer ([63:19]): "Most of the battle, yeah, you know, it's okay. So if you're a fitness fanatic... a significant percentage of people find success starting with very minimal changes."

Doug Egge ([64:04]): "Just cleaning up a little bit on the diet and adding that extra cardio will cruise right into where you want to be."

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10. Listener Coaching: Managing Hunger and Emotional Eating ([72:55] - [87:25])

Megan from Minnesota discusses her struggles with hunger and emotional eating despite adhering to a structured diet and workout regimen. The hosts delve into the psychological aspects of eating, suggesting strategies like front-loading calories, journaling emotions related to food, and potentially hiring a coach to navigate and reform her relationship with food for sustainable weight loss.

Adam Schafer ([78:28]): "There's a couple things... you've battled your weight your entire life... it's an emotional connection with food."

Sal Di Stefano ([90:36]): "I enjoy having little targets... It gives you something to shoot for."

Doug Egge ([95:06]): "We have a program to solve this. You follow map symmetry, and that's the perfect program for you."

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11. Listener Coaching: Correcting Muscle Imbalances ([87:27] - [99:44])

Gabby from California seeks guidance on addressing muscle imbalances and managing tendon snapping in her elbow. The hosts recommend dedicated unilateral exercises and introduce their specialized program, Map Symmetry, designed to correct such imbalances through targeted training and mobility drills. They also discuss the importance of understanding the root causes of imbalances and integrating corrective practices into regular workouts.

Doug Egge ([103:06]): "We have a program to solve this. Follow map symmetry, and you'll catch up way faster."

Adam Schafer ([105:35]): "You'll build the muscle on the deficient side without losing strength on the dominant side."

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12. Final Thoughts: Embracing a Balanced and Sustainable Fitness Journey ([99:45] - End)

The episode concludes with the hosts reiterating the importance of balance, sustainability, and mental well-being in fitness journeys. They encourage listeners to adopt flexible goals, prioritize overall health over rigid metrics, and seek professional guidance when needed to navigate personal challenges effectively.

Adam Schafer ([100:19]): "You just have to do things because you want to do it."

Doug Egge ([101:21]): "Our coaches provide the reassurance and support needed to break negative cycles and build healthier relationships with food and exercise."

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Key Takeaways

• Strength Training: 1-2 full-body sessions per week are sufficient for building and maintaining strength.
• Daily Movement: Aim for 8,000 to 10,000 steps each day to enhance overall health.
• Stamina: Incorporate running half a mile to a mile once or twice weekly to boost endurance.
• Flexibility: Dedicate 10 minutes before bed to static stretching to improve mobility and sleep quality.
• Functional Movement: Engage in playful, functional activities to maintain mobility and foster community connections.
• Cold Therapy: Can aid in recovery and allow for more frequent training but may blunt muscle gains if overused.
• Minimal Training Efficacy: Even minimal strength training can lead to significant strength gains, especially in older adults.
• Emotional Eating: Address psychological aspects of eating by increasing calorie intake strategically and seeking support.
• Muscle Imbalances: Utilize unilateral training programs like Map Symmetry to correct imbalances effectively.

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Notable Quotes

• Sal Di Stefano ([03:08]): "The perfect fitness routine doesn't even exist."
• Doug Egge ([04:25]): "You can build a very functional, strong, good-looking physique with two days a week of training."
• Adam Schafer ([14:25]): "Stamina is an important thing to train."
• Adam Schafer ([26:47]): "Cold plunges reduce muscle growth by up to 66%."
• Adam Schafer ([33:13]): "They all gained on average, 33% increase in strength."
• Doug Egge ([34:04]): "This is the perfect program for you."
• Adam Schafer ([78:28]): "You have a relationship with food that has more to do with other things."
• Sal Di Stefano ([90:36]): "I enjoy having little targets... It gives you something to shoot for."

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Conclusion

Episode 2569 of Mind Pump: Raw Fitness Truth offers a comprehensive exploration of building a balanced and effective fitness routine. Through expert insights and real-life coaching scenarios, the hosts dismantle common fitness myths, advocate for sustainable practices, and provide actionable strategies for listeners to optimize their health and performance without falling prey to industry misconceptions.

Transcript

[Sal DiStefano]

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[Adam Schafer]

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[Adam Schafer]

Up on the latest episodes without the ads.

[Justin Andrews]

If you want to pump your body and expand your mind, there's only one place to go.

[Adam Schafer]

Mind Pump. Mind Pump.

[Justin Andrews]

With your hosts Sal Destefano, Adam Schaefer.

[Adam Schafer]

And Justin Andrews, you just found the most downloaded fitness, health and entertainment podcast. This is Mind Pump. Today's episode we had live callers call in. We got to coach them on air, but this was after our intro. Today's intro was 53 minutes long. The intro we talk about fitness studies, diet tips, current events. It's a good time. Afterward is when we get those live callers. By the way, if you want to be one of those live callers, email [e-mail] now this episode is brought to you by some sponsors. The first one is Caldera Lab. They make the best natural skincare products you'll find anywhere. Super popular and you get the best discount through us. Go to calderalab.com mindpump use the code mindpump20 get 20% off. This episode is also brought to you by Creatures of Habit. They make meal one. This is a high protein oatmeal. Super easy, super tasty, fast to make a great way to start your day. 30 grams of plant protein. It's healthy, good, healthy fats, vitamins, minerals and even probiotics. Go check them out. Go to creaturesofhabit.com mpcreaturesispelled with a king and if you go on that Link, you'll get 25% off your first purchase. We also have a sale this month on some workout programs. Maps hit is 50% off. And then we have an extreme fitness bundle which includes the Intuitive nutrition guide, Maps Hit, Maps Performance and Maps Prime. That entire Bundle is also 50% off. If you're interested, go to mapsfitnessproducts.com and then use the code APRIL50 for the discount. All right, here comes the show. The perfect fitness routine doesn't even exist. Now what am I talking about? I'm talking about being strong, fit, healthy, mobile. You got everything. Oh, and it works with your schedule. We're going to talk about that today. How can you have the perfect fitness routine? I'll start with the first component that I think needs to be considered, this one's an easy one, which is strength. Right. Strength is the foundational fitness pursuit or the foundational attribute. In other words, strength contributes to everything else, contributes to mobility, contributes to endurance, stamina and pursuing strength on a, on a, on a basis that you, that you would compare time versus reward. It's a good place to start. We talk about this often on the podcast. But the question is, with the perfect fitness routine that you're trying to create, that's balanced, that fits most people's schedules, like how much strength training do you actually need? Turns out about one or two days a week would be enough for most people.

[Doug]

I think you're get pushback, of course, because of that, for sure. But I find that it's, it's, it's interesting because you're also kind of going through this right now too, with the scaling back of your routine. Is this prompted because of that or is this more because the viral morning routine thing that's going around right now that everybody is redoing?

[Adam Schafer]

No, honestly. Now, again, let me print some context. Right, we're talking about an overall fitness routine. So one that gives you kind of like. Because when you look at all the fitness attributes, there's some checks and balances there. In other words, if you go too far in one direction, you'll take away from another. So this is not the perfect bodybuilding routine, the perfect powerlifting routine. It's also not going to be the perfect marathon running routine or the perfect, you know, it's a balanced routine. So with strength, you're looking at balance because you still have to make time, and we'll get to that for other attributes or training for other attributes. How much strength training do you need to give you good balance, strength in combination with other stuff? One, one or two days a week. That's really what it is. And by the way, that's based off of data and also based off of our experience, we trained clients that wanted balance. How many days a week did they strength train with you guys when they were doing other things? Right. About one or two days a week. Two.

[Caller]

Yeah. Max. Really?

[Adam Schafer]

At the most. Right. And we're looking at about a full, this is a full body routine. You're focusing on, you know, kind of gross motor movements. You're making sure you're not, you're not compromising any movement patterns. In other words, it's not all like sagittal plane stuff or it's not, you're getting some rotation, you're getting some Lateral movement. But it's strength training.

[Caller]

One or two dedicated strength. I mean the rest of the time is like you're very active still. So it's not like it's a sedentary the rest of the week.

[Adam Schafer]

No.

[Caller]

You're kind of hanging out.

[Adam Schafer]

Uh, no, we got more to add.

[Caller]

It promotes to that.

[Doug]

Yeah. I mean I wish it was communicated more though because I think there, I mean I'm guilty of this as a trainer thinking that you minimum three to five days a week is which minimum you needed. Right. And I remember always thinking when clients would tell me they only had a couple days or whatever, I'm like, oh, we're never, we're never going to see results. You're going to be training way more than that. And I think that's what keeps a lot of people from it. I think a lot of people think in order to look a certain way and be so fit and muscular, you have to be training in the gym five, seven days a week to look like that. And it's not true at all. I think we, I think honestly we over complicate that part of it. I think good full body routine, you're doing those big compound lifts, not neglecting things like rotational, unilateral stuff like that, different planes. And you can build a very functional, strong, good looking physique with two, two days a week of training.

[Adam Schafer]

And by the way, one of the way that I learned this lesson with strength training in particular, because we're going to get to stamina, flexibility, functionality, we're going to get to that. Okay? So we're not just talking just strength here. Remember this is the perfect balanced fitness routine. But one of the ways I learned this lesson was when I had clients who were also active and actively pursuing other fitness endeavors. In other words, I'm training for a marathon and they're doing it properly or I'm a triathlete or I play tennis and tennis is a big deal for me and I play that two or three days a week or whatever. I learned this lesson because they'd come hire me and I'd train them three days a week and they'd have all these symptoms of overtraining. You know, I was like. And I learned this personally too when I did Jiu Jitsu. I tried to lift weights three or four days a week while doing Jiu jitsu three days a week. And it, it was a hard lesson to learn that. It's just you can't do all of it all the time. And so what I would do with These clients, and eventually with myself is I'd scale back on the strength training and then they get the benefits of the strength training. So with these, with these clients that were training for a marathon or who like to cycle a lot or play tennis a lot, one day a week of strength training gave them the benefits of strength training that we're looking for, which was strength and muscle. And it was usually one day a week, sometimes two, but usually about one day a week. Yeah, you know, next up is just general movement, which is good for you. So we're talking about health as well. The data is very clear on this. Moving every day is important, but you don't have to work out every day. So what does this look like? It looks like steps. This is a great way to track movement. Now, there's lots of different ways to move. You dance, you can do all kinds of weird things, but I think steps is the easiest way to track this. And what the studies show is about 8,000 steps, sometimes 10,000 steps a day will give you pretty much all the benefits you're going to get from being active every day. So. And it's not a ton, but you do need to consciously take walks throughout the day in order to make this happen.

[Doug]

I don't know at what point in your guys's career where this became something you communicated a lot or at all. I remember the first half. We've talked many times about scoffing at people that walked. And I didn't, I didn't pay any attention to steps or walking. In fact, I used to think when the stuff articles that come out about the average person needs to step this much and they'd be this healthy, it'd be like, oh, you know, eye roll. Yeah, yeah, it was an eye roll thing for me. Where now it's, I'd say the next 10 years. After my first 10, it became one of the main things that I focus on. And I remember a lot of it came from my own experience when we first got those body bugs and really started looking at the metabolism and movement throughout the day and everything. And I was just so fascinated in the fluctuation of my own personal habits. And I considered myself a very active trainer. I was a trainer. I'm training eight, 10 clients a day. I'm on my feet, like work six days a week, like. But I could the discrepancies on some days and I'm thought, man, all you gotta do is you string two or three of these days together and you're burning 500 less plus calories in a day or have a day like this, and you're burning way more. And so I'm like, I started going like, man, how many of my clients are just like that, where they have day. These extreme days, and when they think they're doing really good? Well, that was also a day when they only stepped 2,000 steps. And so, yeah, that would have been good. Their activity, their diet would have been good had they stepped 10,000 steps. But since they. That just happened to be on a day when they only 2,000 steps. Well, unfortunately, what we thought was a calorie deficit was no longer a deficit. And so managing and speaking to step goals became a major focus on the back half and had tremendous amount of success by. By focusing on huge one.

[Caller]

Yeah, it was crazy to see that, especially from that data, to see how sedentary everybody was, even myself included in that. And I worked out, and I got my hour of workout in that was, like, impactful. But, you know, to see that discrepancy there, it was really enlightening. And really, for me, like, the movement piece, I started looking at the bodies more of, like, mechanically. It's like, if you have all these different systems of the body, you're not expressing. And I was always, like, tripping. I'm like, why do I feel so bad today? And I realized how much I've been sitting. It didn't even matter that I had my workout. I just been. I'm sitting too much. I'm not, like, moving. I'm not expressing all these other systems of the body, and I'm just focused on, you know, recovering my muscles totally.

[Adam Schafer]

What a great. So. So, I mean, just personally, like, we do a lot of sitting, right? We record this podcast. We're in the studio a lot. We break up the day with literally the weakest walk you've ever seen in your life. It's like three blocks. It's embarrassing, but I'm gonna tell you, like, truthfully, you know why we do it? We do it because it makes us better at this job. If we don't do that, we start to suck.

[Caller]

Way better cognition.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah. And it's nothing. It's literally like, how long does that walk take us? 15 minutes. Not even. Makes a huge difference on our mood elevator. Yeah. But, you know, back to the bodybug, we all had the same realization because it came out. When did the body. But 15 years ago, maybe. Or less.

[Doug]

Oh, yeah, at least 15.

[Adam Schafer]

So same thing for me. I'd have clients would wear it, and the first clients that put this on, so people don't know what this is. It's, it's like, it would measure metabolic rate.

[Doug]

It's like the original, it's like the original Fitbit.

[Adam Schafer]

Yes. And so measure. The one thing it would show is your, your movement, how much you're moving. And the clients that initially got it, that I had were my most consistent fit clients because they're the ones most likely to want to look at this. Right. The ones that, when it first came out, I presented to my clients. And it was the ones that were really into fitness, that were like, I want to try that. Right. So I had all this, I had a self selection bias of fit, conscious, healthy clients. Of all my clients, these were the most fit. Right. And I remember they would come in and back then you used to have to download it to your computer. So I download it to my, to my laptop and I'd look at it and here's, you know, here's John coming in, who's, you know, this guy works out for five or six days a week. So he's with me two days a week. The other two, the other three, four days a week, he's doing something that's a workout. Okay. So every day he's working out almost, except for maybe one day a week. And I'm looking at this and I'm like, what did you do on Sunday?

[Doug]

Yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

And I'm like, look at all this activity. It's like, oh, yard work. And I was washing the car and, you know, then I went to the park. I'm like, that. You didn't work out on that day. You crushed all the other days of workouts because you were just active all day long. And then I had a woman come in and I'm looking at hers, I'm like, what did you do Saturday? I was at the mall and I was meeting up with some friends and we went for a walk over here. And I was just, I was like, oh, my God. Like, it's because you guys have desk jobs. So you work out for an hour and a half, but then you sit all day long.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

And then Saturday, all you did was hang out with your friends, go to the mall, go, you go to the park or you wash your car, whatever. And it crushed the other days. This is when I made a conscious effort to track people's steps. And what it looked like was 8 to 10,000 steps a day. And it was just, all it did was it made my clients conscious of getting up and walking, you know, usually two or three times a day.

[Doug]

Just the awareness. Awareness around it was huge. I remember that's what connected the dots for me too. It was just crazy to see how little that we were actually moving. I remember before that, reading this article, and this is like, when it all came to full circle for me that said that if, if you worked out an hour a day with the. The average American that worked out an hour every single day was still considered sedentary. And I remember reading that going, like, wait a second, you train every day for an hour and you're considered sedentary? Like, and I remember we used to have those sheets that we fill out for clients and they would tell you how active they thought they were, where they were. And everybody, anybody who, yeah, anybody who trained, worked out every single day or five days a week. We would say very active. And based off of the. The article is, it's like no average American, even if they train an hour a day, is considered sedentary. And then, of course, the body bug came and all that stuff. And then it all, like, came full circle for me. It was like, oh, my God, we are. And we. We are over. Almost. I hate to say overvalued, because workouts are extremely.

[Adam Schafer]

They're protective. Workouts are protective.

[Doug]

Right. They are valuable. So I don't want to say under, like overvalued, but we definitely did overestimate. Yeah, we overestimated how much it was playing in the whole calorie burn and movement thing because these people really thought they were really active. But then they would go to desk job and they'd sit all day long.

[Adam Schafer]

The only clients I had that measured as very active were mail carriers and blue collar workers. Nobody else.

[Doug]

Soccer refs. I know. Yeah, I trade some refs. Referees.

[Adam Schafer]

50,000. Oh, bro.

[Doug]

I was like, what are you doing? I ref like four games this week, so.

[Adam Schafer]

So with this perfect fitness routine, you have strength training one to two days a week, and then every day, just make sure you get to 10,000 steps. All right? So another component of a balanced fitness routine includes stamina. Right. Strength training is not stamina training. You'll get some stamina from getting stronger, but it's not stamina training. You know, walking every day, not really going to build stamina unless you never.

[Caller]

Walk in the cardiovascular system.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah. How can we strengthen stamina? Well, the average person, it would be sufficient to run about a half a mile to a mile, one to two days a week. That's it. That's enough to see sufficient gains in stamina over a decent period of time. And the reason why this is so Good is twofold. One, running is a skill we've all lost.

[Caller]

Maintain the skill.

[Adam Schafer]

I want to be very careful here. If you don't. If you haven't run in a long time, treat this like a skill. So if you listen to this episode, like, cool, I'll go run half a mile. Don't run a half a mile. Get good at running for half a mile and slowly get better at it. Look at your biomechanics. How my feet are hitting the ground. How do I feel? Don't run so hard that your biomechanics go out the window. Otherwise, you're gonna hurt yourself. So get better at it. But then as you get better, as your stamina builds, the half a mile mile stay the same. You just get faster. And so this is why it's such a good way to train stamina. And stamina is important. It's an important thing to train. You can be very strong without good stamina. You can move great without good stamina. You need stamina also for other aspects of health and running. Again, this is a skill that we've lost. So practice the skill of running, because if you don't run, you don't know how to run. That's just the fact. People just don't know how to run.

[Doug]

So if I was communicating this to a client, the. The obvious first question that they would ask me is, when do I do this? Is it better for me to do it on my workout days? Is it better for me to do it on my off days? Now, I think the perfect world, it's done on separate. On separate days. That doesn't mean that it still doesn't have value doing it on the same day you're trying. Like, if I. If I had it was an either or, I definitely would. Would like the option to have you do it on another day. I think it would. Just to be smarter strategically, but still tremendous value. If this is how you started your workout or this is how you ended your workout was to.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah, exactly. Splitting hairs at that point.

[Doug]

Yeah, exactly.

[Adam Schafer]

So that's the stamina component. All right. Flexibility. Flexibility is a component of mobility. Having some flexibility is good for actually getting your body into a parasympathetic state. Static stretching is great for this. And the best time to do this is before bed because it does induce a parasympathetic state, and it will help your sleep. And it's literally before bed for 10 minutes. Pick a couple static stretches in areas that you tend to feel tight and just do 10 minutes of it with deep breathing. And that is enough in combination with good strength training to give you the kind of.

[Caller]

You're really just trying to balance that.

[Adam Schafer]

Right.

[Caller]

You know that, that sympathetic response that you're sending when you're strength training and you're, you want to get that kind of tightness in that response. But now we have to also complement and counter that. And so that way you, you know, you can maintain these positions in the joint and you can have, you know, good traction and make sure that you, you keep that health of the joint intact.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah.

[Doug]

I mean, paired with a whole food diet, this puts somebody in.

[Adam Schafer]

In healthy hell.

[Doug]

Extremely healthy.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah.

[Doug]

If you are checking these boxes right here and you are eating a whole, predominantly whole food diet, dude, you're like 90. Killing. You're killing it.

[Adam Schafer]

That's it.

[Doug]

Yeah, absolutely. Killing.

[Adam Schafer]

And the last part, and I include functional. I know that's an overused term. What I mean by that is that.

[Caller]

You, you put the fun in functional.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah. That you can move, you know, that your body expresses itself. Well, now I could tell you to do a functional workout and would be great. Right. But that tends to be a little bit complex for people. They need programming, et cetera, et cetera. You want to know the truth with remaining functional? Play. Go outside and play. If you play with your kids and you do this regularly, for example, things. Yeah. Throwing frisbees, running, climbing, like it's, it's pretty well balanced and, and do that often.

[Doug]

If we're building like the perfect ideal fitness routine, which the desired outcome is healthy. Right. Overall, overall health, like this is the ultimate. And I. And you're trying to come up with this functional thing. I'd actually probably toggle between calling it this functional day slash connecting with people day. Like, that's kind of like what a.

[Adam Schafer]

Great way to put it.

[Doug]

Like this is. This is just get out there with people. Like, whether you play in a fun pickup game or you go for a hike with somebody, like, yeah. Go be social, go be with a friend. Go be with people. Do. And do something where you're moving like that. That right there would cover that for me. And then you're also checking another box with community and relationships, which if the, if we're building the ultimate fitness routine for health. Well, we already know that. What the research says about relationships and health, that's a very, very important piece of it. And so, you know, you build it in there. You make sure that you make an effort on your functional day to get out there with other people and do something. Don't overcomplicate the activity more so about the company. Be there, be with people that you love and you like being with like that right there.

[Caller]

Hoops and wiffle ball, dude.

[Adam Schafer]

See by the way, as, as a dad, I'll tell you, I have like two little kids. As you kids get older too, it looks more like sports and stuff, but when they're little, like they keep you functional, man. You get on the floor and you play with a two year old.

[Caller]

Climbing, wrestling. Yeah, all that counts.

[Adam Schafer]

Oh yeah, dude. We went to the park, you know, over the weekend and they want me to get up on the play structure with them and my 2 year old wants to jump off everything. So I got to be up there with her to keep her safe. And as I'm doing it, doing pull.

[Caller]

Ups on the monkey bars, flexing on.

[Adam Schafer]

Everybody, trying to show all the dads who the strong dad is. Yeah. You know, you play outside, play often. And I like saying it that way because play is unscripted and it tends to use the entire body. So you don't need a workout routine necessarily, you know, for that.

[Doug]

So speaking of the kids, you were at the park with yours this weekend. You were out mining for gold.

[Caller]

Yeah. Is that what you were panning for gold?

[Doug]

Panning, not mining. Sorry.

[Caller]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, we got this.

[Doug]

Looks like you found some too.

[Caller]

Yeah, I mean, I, I think so. I don't know. Look like it, who knows. There was one of them that was like very yellow and so like Everett actually found that and he was like super pumped and so I was like, I don't even want to test it. I'm like, yeah, we got it. You know, like, I'm just, I'm going with it, you know, because it really. He loved it. It was. Where was this such an adventure? We just, you know, we'd been talking about it for a long time and, and had researched and saw that like even in our area somebody had found like, you know, this crazy like expensive gold raw, you know, gold nugget. And we were just like, wow, that's possible. You know, and then it just started kind of ruminating and, and we got this like little kid off Amazon and I was like, well, you know, let's make a day of it. Because Courtney and, and Ethan were down in Southern California for his gymnastics tournament and we were just kind of like had a day to ourselves. So we just like went to some obscure place that, you know, was from my. The first house that we had there was like this creek that was like way, you know, out there on its Own and we just like trucked it for like two hours and freezing water. And we're just like panning and it's. It's sounds really boring, but it was like super fun. We were just like, that's awesome.

[Doug]

Like treasure hunting.

[Caller]

Yes. Treasure hunting is. Is literally like I found little specks. You get all excited finding the tiniest little thing because it was shiny, you know. And that's it.

[Adam Schafer]

That's so awesome.

[Doug]

Are you guys. Are you guys familiar with Forest Finn?

[Adam Schafer]

No.

[Doug]

Do you guys know who that is?

[Adam Schafer]

No.

[Doug]

So have Doug Google them. Look up Forest Finn. So it's what. Chasing the Thrill. Is that what I wrote down? I think I forget. Chasing the Thrill, I think is the name of his book. Okay, so check this out. I. I remember this because it was like this was over like a 10 or a 12 year span. I do remember seeing this guy on the news. And now that I know the full story, it's like super interesting. So this dude takes a couple million dollars in rubies and gold nuggets and flakes and coins and everything that. And in the Rocky Mountains, buries a treasure and tells the world that I left $2 million for Svenra. Okay. I left $2 million in gold and rubies and coins and everything like this in a buried treasure.

[Caller]

And I said Netflix series.

[Doug]

Yes, this.

[Caller]

Oh yeah.

[Doug]

That tells the whole story of Netflix. But this was on. This is what happened a while back. It happened back in. Maybe Doug can look up on the dates when I was. I want to say it was in the 90s or 2000s. It went into the 2000s. I know that. But so listen, this is. This gets better. Like this was such a cool story. So does that.

[Caller]

He.

[Doug]

And he writes a poem. And in the poem is the hints to where the treasure is. Another layer. That's so brilliant. I'm like, this is brilliant. Why haven't more people done this? Yeah, he wrote a book. This was how he announced like his. His book.

[Adam Schafer]

I mean, the book.

[Doug]

Oh, bro, he sold so many books. Wow.

[Adam Schafer]

What a smart way.

[Doug]

What a brilliant way to sell your.

[Caller]

Map in the book.

[Doug]

So everybody bought his book. Everybody watched all his interviews. When was the dates, Doug?

[Justin Andrews]

So 2010. It looks like he started the trade 20.

[Adam Schafer]

20.

[Doug]

2010 years. People were hunting this thing, bro. It got so crazy and ridiculous. People died trying to find us with that. And it was so vague. The Rocky Mountains go through like what.

[Caller]

Five, like wearing the right attire?

[Doug]

Yes. They were going up into like. I mean it was the Rocky Mountain. So there's like it Goes. I think Rocky Mountains go through five different states at least. Right. And he didn't tell you what state it is. He just basically says, north of Santa Fe in the Rocky Mountains. And then it has like, all these clues. And bro, the amount of people that were searching for this thing for a decade and somebody eventually, eventually found it.

[Adam Schafer]

Wow.

[Doug]

But I. What I thought was so brilliant was attaching it to a book like that and the amount really smart. Think about how many copies of books you would sell.

[Caller]

Oh, yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

Well, he. The treasure chest was auctioned for 1.3 million.

[Doug]

Yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

So it was. I mean, it was legit.

[Doug]

Oh, yeah. No, it was legit. It was a legit gold pieces and all kinds of stuff that were in it. But you know what's interesting was the people. I mean, not interest, of course. Like, it. You have to love this. There's like a community of like, treasure hunter. Like, I didn't realize how big of a community that was. Like, there's like a serious community of people that, like, this is their. Their jam. This is what they do. And the amount of effort put into finding this, this treasure was just wild.

[Caller]

We've been watching a lot of, I think what sparked to been watching, like, Blindfold Frog ranch and some of these other, like, gold, you know, hunting shows and stuff. And dude, it was. It was such a bummer because at the very end, like, our feet are freezing and like, it was like we couldn't feel it. I'm like, we should probably go. Like, this is like, I can't even feel anything. Like, it's probably not good. And I'm like, putting his shoes on and, like, trying not to get and everything in there. And then he spots like this. It looked like quartz with, like, gold on it. Like, literally, like, right underneath in this deep part of the. The creek. And we're like, oh, my God, look at that. I thought that was something. So I go down. I was all done. I get back into the water. I'm like, you know, reaching my hand all the way down. I'm pulling it up. It was a freaking Modelo can. I was so pissed, dude.

[Doug]

The gold rim in.

[Caller]

I was like, oh, my God. Wouldn't that be ironic? The very end of the day, you know, you find like some awesome without.

[Adam Schafer]

Just a fricking beer. Hey, speaking of cold, I got. I got a study came out on cold therapy. I want to talk to you guys about. We've talked about this before. How annoying it is when people take something of value and just always apply it, bastardize it. Yeah, dude. So study reveals. This is the post. Study reveals that cold plunges reduce muscle growth by up to 66%. So it says. Research has found that using cold plunges after lifting can actually blunt muscle growth and strength gains. In a 12 week strength training study, those who did cold water immersion after each session gained significantly less muscle mass and strength than those who used active recovery. Despite training identically, cold plungers saw 66% smaller increases in muscle growth.

[Caller]

So now the bodybuilder bros are gonna be like, see?

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah, you know what's stupid about this?

[Doug]

That's not the reason why they shouldn't do theirs. It's like a fasting thing. Yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

And also, is there value to cold therapy post workout? Yes. You know what the value is? To allow you to train again and push the limit. Yeah. There are athletes that are out there, a lot of them, who are constantly redlining and the thing that keeps them from breaking muscle down all the time and being an overtrained state would be cold therapy.

[Doug]

Well, that's also sal. That's another. You're pointing out an obvious flaw in the study too. Because again, this is the problem with studies is it's a complete controlled environment. So it's like same same, you have to do same same. But in reality, the person who was cold plunging probably has more energy to get after the next workout because they inflammation. So they're more likely to push harder or more intensity and do more. But if you're in a study and you're like, no, no, you do exact same thing. And we're just trying to see the outcome of okay, well, yeah, that, that, that's going to happen. But what if you allowed them just to do their thing? And what happens when the person who's cold plunging actually does more volume or does more work the next workout because of that, then what happens? Is it enough to cancel it? Is it enough to close that gap? Is it enough to potentially surpass it?

[Adam Schafer]

Here's what, here's, here's a study that I would write. Two groups of people who can train more. The group who doesn't, cold therapy post workout, the one that does, the one who uses cold therapy. Now the question would be, well, why would you want to train more? Because when you're an athlete, practicing your skill is the most important thing. The limiting factor is recovery.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

So if you're training basketball athletes, you're training football players, you're training tennis, you're.

[Caller]

Training on the skill is everything.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah. It's like the more I can get you to Practice the better. But I got to always compromise how much time you spend because you can't recover from it. Will cold therapy allow you to train more often? Yes. Will that make you a better athlete? Yes. Yes, it will. So. So it's the way that they word it. And so people will see this be like, oh, there's no value. There's tons of value in cold therapy. You just have to know how to apply the tool, that's all. And by the way, for. For people who. Who, you know are like, well, I want to do both. Don't do it after your workout then.

[Doug]

Right.

[Adam Schafer]

Do it at the beginning.

[Doug]

I've always said, Bill. I've always said before. I remember the first time had me do the cryo. He's like, you got to come down. Do it before your workout. I was like, forever sold. Like, dude, I'll never do this afterwards. This is way better.

[Caller]

If you just dunk your head in it. It's like, amazing, right?

[Doug]

It is, right?

[Adam Schafer]

I love that. Anyway, I got. I was laughing with my wife over the weekend because I told her when we interviewed Ben Bruno, by the way, it's great. I love that guy. He's so hilarious, funny.

[Doug]

He's got. He's got a really great sense of humor. Yes. He has, like, that kind of, like, dry delivery. Really, really funny.

[Adam Schafer]

Love him. I always. We always connect with people who are actual trainers because, you know, we have so much in common. But the one point of the episode that made me laugh and I was telling Jessica this is, you know, he gets. While we're recording, he looks at me. He goes, wait a minute, hold on. He points. He points at me, and he goes, I recognize you. You sold me face oil. Like, what? He goes, I saw an ad with you talking about caldera lab, and my wife was talking about my skin. I ended up buying something that was.

[Doug]

Like how we opened. You guys were sitting right across from each other. And I remember, like, you could see it on his face when it hit clicked.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah.

[Doug]

We just started. We were just starting because he saw.

[Adam Schafer]

Me with the mic.

[Doug]

Yeah. And then he's looking directly at you. And then totally right off. Totally off cuff. He was just, oh, my God, you're the face guy.

[Adam Schafer]

Which two things. One, I'm glad. Hey, I'm good at. Apparently, I'm good at selling.

[Caller]

But two other dude, to get a beauty product.

[Adam Schafer]

I get recognized sometimes for their ads more than I do for myself, which is hilarious.

[Doug]

That's too funny, man.

[Adam Schafer]

Are you guys using their hair thing? The hair follicle? Thing.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah. What do you think?

[Caller]

Yeah, I like it.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Doug]

My wife uses it.

[Adam Schafer]

My wife uses it. Yeah.

[Caller]

What am I supposed to say? It's effervescent?

[Adam Schafer]

Ask him.

[Doug]

Yeah, yeah. It's insulting.

[Adam Schafer]

Why didn't they come out with that before? Yeah.

[Caller]

Where's the.

[Doug]

I. I mean, you guys see the commercial that Danny did with Justin was really good. Yeah, I.

[Adam Schafer]

Okay.

[Doug]

This is.

[Caller]

Yeah, that was all.

[Doug]

This is three in a row. She's done. Were. And I'm telling you, all three while they were shooting, I'm like, what the Are they doing?

[Caller]

As I was doing.

[Doug]

It's my commitment to you, Danny. I will never question your ideas because I think she's done some of the best.

[Adam Schafer]

So good.

[Doug]

Yes. Some of the best work I've ever seen out of here. And every time I think, like, no, that doesn't sound like that's going to be very good. But it was so good.

[Adam Schafer]

I know. Yeah. But my wife's. My wife's been using it. She really likes it. Not that she's losing her hair, but she has really straight, thin hair. Right.

[Doug]

I didn't even think to bring it home for Katrina.

[Adam Schafer]

So she's always like, she wants her hair to look thicker or whatever. I think her hair looks great. So she's been using. She likes it. So that's another product of theirs that she stole from Sal. She just took my face oils, took the face cream. Take your hair serum.

[Caller]

I don't know if, like, Vicky meant it, but, like, got me a little self conscious because, like, she was, like, trimming here, and I have, like, a natural widow's peak, you know? And she's like, ah, it might be a little less here.

[Adam Schafer]

Oh.

[Caller]

And then I was like, what? And I asked Court, you know, she's like, no, no, no, no. That's like, your hair's always been like that. I'm like, you got a thick ass hair. So now I'm like, okay, we were gonna do all the things.

[Adam Schafer]

Speaking of hair, like, we were watching. There's that series we were all talking about, David on Amazon, the story of David.

[Doug]

Yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

And Jonathan, the son of Saul, he's got such this crazy thick head of hair. And I'm looking at it, and I'm like, my hair used to look like I used to have so much hair.

[Doug]

I did, too, bro.

[Adam Schafer]

That when I'd wake up in the morning, while I was walking, I'd feel it move like this so much.

[Doug]

When I was younger, my whole life. Although even through high school, every hairstylist ever had always commented on how thick and full my hair was. For sure. They were all.

[Adam Schafer]

Did you hate it as a kid?

[Doug]

Yeah, it was hard to style. Yeah, yeah. It was pain. It was all. It was like it was all nappy, you know what I'm saying? Yeah. I had like a little fro in the morning. I hate. I hated it. But that's what I get, right? So, I mean, I miss it now.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah.

[Doug]

I take that nappy head of hair back in the heartbeat today.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah. Hey, earlier we were talking about strength training and I forgot to tell you guys this. A study came out on. This is how effective strength training is at building strength. I'm going to read you guys a study. This is a great study. This is just how effective it is. Right. They took a bunch of older people. Let me look at the age group. I'll read it to you. Okay. They took older adults. So over the age of. I think it's over the age of 55. Sorry, Doug. That's what they consider older. And they had them do. This is how much strength training they had them do. You ready?

[Doug]

Yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

One exercise once per week.

[Doug]

One exercise once per week.

[Adam Schafer]

One exercise once per week.

[Doug]

Wow.

[Adam Schafer]

Three sets of. Five reps of the leg press. That's it.

[Doug]

That's it.

[Adam Schafer]

All they did is show up and do three sets of exercise. Okay. Over six weeks. Over a six week period, they all gained on average, 33% increase in strength.

[Doug]

Wow.

[Adam Schafer]

In six weeks.

[Doug]

Wow.

[Adam Schafer]

One exercise once also.

[Doug]

I don't know if that highlights how great strength training is or just how deconditioned we've become. Like, I mean, it's obviously, it's a. It's a combination of both. Right. It's like, we know strength training is incredible for you.

[Adam Schafer]

We're so.

[Doug]

But it's also. Yeah. I think we're just going to see more and more stuff like this coming out pretty soon. It's gonna be like, just get one workout a year. Yeah, you get it.

[Adam Schafer]

One year.

[Caller]

Air squat, you'll add. You're good.

[Doug]

Ten years, your life. Just get a single workout.

[Adam Schafer]

Open and close your hand twice.

[Doug]

Ye. Yeah. Yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

And you're gonna see sprint gains. Yeah. No. So here's what they also saw. Ready for this? Multiple functional capacity outcomes and reported benefits in quality of life measures. So in other words, when they did, they did tests of quality of life measures.

[Doug]

Okay.

[Adam Schafer]

And all of them saw an improvement in their quality of life by all measures.

[Doug]

What might be an example of that?

[Adam Schafer]

Less pain.

[Doug]

Okay. Okay.

[Adam Schafer]

More energy. Like, basically like improved quality life.

[Doug]

Sure. From one exercise and a leg press at that. So basic.

[Adam Schafer]

I know.

[Doug]

Wow.

[Adam Schafer]

Isn't that crazy?

[Doug]

Wow.

[Adam Schafer]

This and I look, I used to see this, you guys. I had, I trained a significant portion of my client base towards the back half of my career were what, what you would label in the training world as advanced age. Okay. So over 55, but actually a lot of them were over 60. And I train them all once a week and I mean I trained them once a week for years and they all were so much stronger and more fit than their peers from that one day a week. It was ridiculous. Like, I had them come in, deadlift, squat, overhead press. I had a 75 year old woman who would deadlift 120 pounds and 75 years old. All her friends were in pain and dependent, you know, on their.

[Doug]

I mean, this is a highlight. We started this conversation off talking about Ben Bruno in our interview with him and just why we connected with someone like that who's trained. He gets it, he gets it. And this. A lot of the conversation was around this type of stuff. It's like all this Internet and all these trainers arguing about this and how great this next movement and exercises.

[Caller]

It's like, dude, stipulations that are unrealistic.

[Doug]

Yeah. It's like, come on, get your fucking client a leg press once a week. Like impacting by 33% positively. It's like, come on, dude. Like just silly overthinking this. And, and we get into these debates over silly stuff. It's like, which again, this is why. And I think, I feel that we've really tried to make this case on the show for 10 years. It's just like adherence and the psychological part are the most behavioral part is the most important part.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah.

[Doug]

Because like you're, you could show an example of a basic leg press once a week can make that much of an impact on them. So it's like if I can just get my clients bought in and excited or, you know, enthusiastic about pursuing health, I've won half the battle.

[Adam Schafer]

Most of the battle, yeah, you know, it's okay. So if you're a fitness fanatic and you're listening or you're like a new trainer, this is why you're annoying. I'll tell you why. Because you hear this conversation and you're like, that's not enough. You're not going to get people. Here's the, here's the deal. It's a very alluring, attractive message that we're giving. That's also true. And it does a better job at getting the average person to exercise for the rest of their life.

[Doug]

That's right.

[Adam Schafer]

Because the app. Your fitness fanaticism is not working. You're not going to get Mrs. Johnson, who is not a fitness fanatic, who doesn't have body dysmorphia like you or whatever. You're not going to get her to want to work out for the rest of her life by telling her she needs to go ham five days a week. You're going to get her to work out every day by building a good relationship with exercise and by being honest and saying you don't need much. Start here. And you know what happens, by the way, ironically is a significant percentage of people that I've trained who were regular non fitness fanatics who understood this and started with very minimal. You know what happens over the years?

[Doug]

They had more and more organically asked for more, they knew more.

[Adam Schafer]

Yes, totally.

[Caller]

And it's just funny because the same exact advice works like great for fitness fanatics.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah.

[Caller]

You know, they just, you, you don't want to look at it for what it is. It's like you're probably doing too much like, and that's a hard thing. That's me to realize, you know? Yeah, I know. How's that going? I did want to ask you.

[Doug]

Yeah. We're on week two right now, right?

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah. I'm only lift twice a week and on the days in between, I'm just focusing on like stretching or mobility.

[Doug]

Are you changing those days up at all or are they.

[Adam Schafer]

Right now it's maps in a block phase one.

[Doug]

But I mean like, what I mean by that is like is it always Monday that you. Monday and then Thursday.

[Adam Schafer]

Monday and Thursday is what the schedule looks like. But I'm flexible.

[Doug]

Okay. So I was. The reason why I'm asking is because I would think that part of this exercise for you too is allowing a little.

[Adam Schafer]

Just calm down.

[Doug]

That's right.

[Adam Schafer]

You don't need to get.

[Doug]

That's where I'm going at here is because it's just like you don't need.

[Adam Schafer]

To give ammo to my wife. Come on, dude, what are you doing?

[Doug]

I mean she's on my side, you know what I'm saying? She's on. We're on the same team here, you know what I'm saying? I've been trying to get you to do this stuff for a while. So.

[Adam Schafer]

That's right Now, Monday, Thursday.

[Doug]

Okay, okay. So next. That's right.

[Adam Schafer]

Don't change my days, bro.

[Doug]

Okay. I'm not trying to change days.

[Adam Schafer]

One Step at a time. It's so hard. But it's twice a week and I'm getting stronger. Of course.

[Doug]

Of course you are.

[Adam Schafer]

But I mean, I'm not trying. I'm not like, trying to focus on that.

[Doug]

No, no.

[Caller]

Yeah, but what are you doing? The days in between? That's what I'm interested in.

[Adam Schafer]

So last week I did. I would sit in the sauna 30 minutes, and you really, really concentrate. Just. I was hugging someone in there. Some random old guy. Can you hold me for a second? I really wish I was working out. Okay.

[Caller]

Sauna.

[Adam Schafer]

No, I sit in the sauna and do deep static stretching for 30 minutes because I can get much deeper range of motion. This week I won't have that time because I, I. This week, my. My teenage daughter's with me, so I have to take her to school. So I'll come in here and I'll static stretch, foam roll, and maybe do, like, mobility kind of stuff. I'm just moving on all the other days. That's it. Yeah, but the only real structured days are Monday and Thursday.

[Doug]

So you have to promise to. As this unfolds. And you obviously learn stuff about yourself, and I feel like you'll even pick up stuff about the routine and things like that. You have to share, like, what's.

[Adam Schafer]

For sure. My diet's different. I'm definitely not chasing protein as much because that's another part of it. The other part of it is I, like, I have to let go of that a little bit so I'm more flexible with my diet, still eating healthy. But I'm not like, oh, gotta get my 200, you know, plus grams of protein. So if it falls to 150 or 120, then it's. It's okay. And, you know, of course I feel better, but.

[Caller]

Yeah, I know, dude.

[Adam Schafer]

I'm just really. It's really. It's a real lesson in submitting.

[Doug]

Are you okay? So are you. Are there certain things that are, like, triggering for you that you find yourself. You have to, like, either pray or meditate or like, huh.

[Adam Schafer]

Every day.

[Doug]

Every day. Every day. Every day. Well, every day it's like, you wake up, it's a struggle right away, like.

[Caller]

To calm your mind, like, oh, no.

[Adam Schafer]

I hear what you're saying.

[Doug]

Yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

The first week was rough. Rough. I found myself depressed, anxious. Spent a lot of time in prayer. I think he had mercy on me recently and lifted some of that. But I'm still very active in my prayer, knowing that it could. It could always go back. So just, Just as As much as possible, you know, any opportunity I get, you know, asking for help. So. But this, so far, over the last maybe four days or so, it's been. I've been feeling a lot better. Like, I'm letting go. Like, I'm not even. As. I'm not even as critical of the reflection in the mirror. I'm finding that's even kind of letting its grip, you know, loosening its grip. But that first week was. Yeah, I was depressed. I could tell. I was depressed.

[Doug]

Wow.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah.

[Doug]

Wow.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah, bro. You let go of your drug.

[Doug]

Yeah, of course.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah. Take away somebody's drug and then they got to deal with. With that withdrawal. Yeah. And it's like, it felt like depression.

[Doug]

Yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

You know, type of deal, which, I'll tell you, the best for me, the best, you know, solution for that depression was my wife's grace prayer. And then my little ones. My little ones are so, you know, they run to me, hug me, whatever, and instantly it's like, all right, I'm.

[Doug]

Sure that helps, right? When you're in the thick of, like, oh, I should be working out. I'm not going to. Then you go play with your kids or something. Like, that's probably a really nice transition to get your mind off of what you're 100% used to be doing.

[Adam Schafer]

Anyway, I got. I got a. I got another study that's a duh study, but it went viral.

[Doug]

Love those.

[Adam Schafer]

It went viral because of how weird things are in the world. It's so weird. Okay, so they did a study, and German researchers gathered a large sample of healthy men and women and 60 elite female athletes. So they took everyday healthy people, men, women, and they also tested 60 elite female athletes, and they tested their strength from what sport? So, yeah, so. So what athletes? So they're. They're. Yeah, any sport.

[Doug]

They tested them for what, though? What?

[Adam Schafer]

Strength.

[Doug]

I know, I know. But what's the. What's the desired outcome of this?

[Adam Schafer]

Are men stronger than women?

[Doug]

Oh, God.

[Adam Schafer]

I know, dude. It's like, why are we wasting. You know why we're wasting our time? Because people are debating. This is so stupid. But anyway, here we go. Ready for the study? 90% of the women were weaker than 95% of the men. The strongest elite female athlete in their sample was at the 58th percentile for the average man, which. Okay, she's stronger than a good, you know, 42% of every. Of men, but there's still 58% of everyday guys that are stronger than her. Yeah, so that was. And it's. It Went viral because people are like, see, I told you, or whatever. Then they also did this in the study when men and women were matched for the amount of muscle they have. In other words, is it just because guys are bigger? Let's go pound for pound. Lean body mass. Lean body mass. Men are still far stronger, which we also know this. It's not just about muscle. It's also central nervous system activation. Yeah, it's all that stuff. Yeah.

[Caller]

Muscle recruitment.

[Doug]

This is all stemming from the stupid argument that we're. We're the same, we're different, we're so much better as a team than comparing to who does what. I'll never be able to have a child. Never. It's like, that's. You're way better.

[Adam Schafer]

She's got gifts that you don't have.

[Caller]

The message of celebrate the differences. Yeah, right.

[Doug]

That's. I. I mean, I hope we get back to that.

[Adam Schafer]

I hope.

[Doug]

I. I hope instead of pointing out it's like that we're trying to say that and. And lying. Why not celebrate how different we are and how well we complement each other and the beauty that lies within that? Because I think that's amazing how, you know, randomly here we are, that we have these beautiful things that we're so different in, but together we make this incredible unity.

[Adam Schafer]

It's crazy to me because I think part of the problem. Well, there's a lot of. A lot of issues here, but part of the problem is that what the world has done is placed certain attributes on a pedestal as if they're the most. That these attributes are important. And so strength in physical, you know, athleticism and performance is like. Everybody celebrates that as if that's everything. That's one thing. That's one thing. But if they did another study, which there's plenty of these studies where they're judging emotional intelligence or the ability to read somebody's emotions just by looking at them. What you would see is a complete flip in reverse of what we just read is you would see women crush that. There's a study where they look at just eyes, and you got to guess what emotion they're emoting just by looking at their eyes. And guys are terrible.

[Doug]

Women are where this conversation started to stem from because it's like, for the longest time, we've always valued women and children above men. That's why it's like, you protect them at all costs. They are more valuable. They're far more valuable. So where did we do like that? We think men are. No, we don't. We've Never thought that, like, it's such a weird argument to get into it.

[Adam Schafer]

All, because there's a big. There was, like, a. There was an article that went out that was so dumb, I shared it. It was this. I don't remember what magazine it was in, but it was the. The re. The. The authors said that the reason. Maybe the reason why men are bigger and stronger is because our government guidelines tell them to eat more. So if women just ate more, they'd be just.

[Caller]

I know, dude.

[Adam Schafer]

And then it started this whole debate about. About getting rid of sex categories.

[Caller]

Yeah, it's all culturally influenced. It's like, no, dude, it's physiological.

[Adam Schafer]

They were like, let's get rid of those categories. Like. Like, men and women should compete against each other in sports. What a great way to erase females from athletes from sports. Let them. Let us all compete together. So dumb. It's crazy.

[Doug]

Super crazy.

[Adam Schafer]

It's crazy.

[Caller]

Hopefully we move beyond.

[Adam Schafer]

I think we will. Anyway. Another study came out on creatine showing fat loss effects, which is what we've talked about.

[Doug]

Well, look at that. Look at that.

[Adam Schafer]

Isn't that great? Isn't that great? So the studies showed that they, of course, built more muscle, but they also lost more. More body fat. Now they were taking a much higher dose. There are more studies showing the value of taking higher doses than 5 grams of creatine.

[Doug]

I'm gonna start. Because we have access to so much. I'm gonna start sprinkling it and more stuff. I was thinking about putting in my protein cookies the other day that I was cooking. I was like, you know, maybe I'll sprinkle some. Some creatine in here.

[Adam Schafer]

Are you making those open?

[Caller]

I have to spread all throughout the.

[Adam Schafer]

Day if you take it all.

[Caller]

I went too hard one day and just, like, took, like, 10 or 12 at once.

[Doug]

That's what I mean. I want to, like. I want to, like. I want to take my serving. I'm gonna, like, pixie dust it and, like, as I'm baked, because I'm thinking creatine and some cookies. You won't even notice it's in there if you just sprinkle some of that inside the. Inside when you're mixing it up. Like, why not?

[Adam Schafer]

No, there was a. There was another study that showed that 20. It took 20 grams of creatine a day to maximize the effect on the brain. So it's for cognitive effects.

[Caller]

Yeah, it's a big motivator for me.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah. Okay. So are you making the. Are these the oatmeal protein cookies? That you're talking about.

[Doug]

Yeah, I use meal one. That's how I use the meal. Yeah. Yeah. Basically. Yeah. Yeah. I just. I do.

[Adam Schafer]

I mean, how many cookies does that. Do you know how many. That makes one of those little second.

[Doug]

Oh, it's a Katrina question, bro. Yeah, it's a Katrina question because that's.

[Adam Schafer]

30 grams of protein in one packet.

[Doug]

I. I have them. I have to look in my. My fat secret, because I've. I've created the recipe in there. I mean, it's not like, crazy amount of protein, but I mean, I'm enjoying a sweet treat. And I'm in, like, an oatmeal cookie, and I'm using a. An oatmeal that has protein powder in it. So it's 30 grams. Yeah. So it boosts them. I think it's like. I think I want to say. Don't quote me on this, but I want to say it's like 8 grams to 10 grams of protein. A cookie or something like that.

[Adam Schafer]

That's a lot.

[Doug]

Yeah, no, it's a decent amount.

[Adam Schafer]

How much protein is in a normal cookie?

[Doug]

None.

[Adam Schafer]

Zero.

[Doug]

Yeah, none. That's why it's cool. It's like. And it's, you know, it's.

[Adam Schafer]

That's a great thing for kids. Yeah, I'm going to make that because.

[Doug]

Then, you know, Max loves them.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah, yeah.

[Doug]

And we've made. We've done, like, protein balls with meal one. We've done the actual cookies with meal one. I just, like. I mean, you guys, I've obviously have talked about my sweet tooth forever. And so if I've got, like, a little treat like that in the refrigerator or Tupperware, that's it. I just need to have. Otherwise, that's where I go wrong.

[Adam Schafer]

Do you guys use, like, honey to sweeten it, or do you use, like, Stevie?

[Doug]

Yeah, I think she uses honey. I think it's honey. The recipe calls for honey, I believe. I'd have to look and see what. All different ones. Right.

[Adam Schafer]

And what flavor of meal one are you typically using?

[Doug]

Vanilla and peanut butter are the two. I think she might even use chocolate sometimes, too.

[Adam Schafer]

Oh, that's good.

[Doug]

But vanilla teams seems to be the best, because then you can mix. Yeah, exactly. With whatever you want. But we do like these peanut. These peanut butter ball versions also. And I think she uses the peanut butter one for that.

[Adam Schafer]

Those are the ones you brought. That's what it was. It wasn't peanut butter balls.

[Doug]

I know. I brought. I mean, I've brought. It's been a while since I'VE brought them here, but I've been making them forever. Katrina. It's pretty much a staple in our house to have something like that either in the refrigerator. Fridge or on the counter. So that when I get my late night munchies, I go to that.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah, yeah, that's really good. Speaking of kids, my 4 year old stayed for the first time ever because we homeschool him and stuff. And he's never been to daycare, but we're trying to get him to go to Sunday school while Jessica and I will attend the service. So typically what we do.

[Doug]

Oh, you haven't broke him off yet. I know, you guys.

[Adam Schafer]

No, no. So typically what we do is we'll bring him to Sunday service, but then he sometimes gets restless and it can be difficult. And so we sit in the very front. My wife is so, like, she really makes an effort to make it all work. So we'll sit in the very front on the very, like, I think it's left. Stage left, I think that's what you call it. And she'll set up like sticker books for him and stuff like that. So while we're watching the service. But, you know, he gets restless and stuff. And people know us as the family that brings the kid, that does that, whatever. And so we have friends who bring their kids and they have like a Sunday school there, and it's really great. And they're so good about it too. Like, the kid will have a name tag and you'll see the number come up if you need to get your kid. And everybody's really friendly. So we're like, let's give it a shot. Let's try it. So we tried last Sunday and we brought my son in there, we prepped him and he made it about 10 minutes, you know, started crying and, you know, we went and picked him up and it was okay. It was his first time trying.

[Doug]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

So this Sunday was coming up and so, you know, a couple days before, we're kind of prepping him and Jessica's like, you know, we're going to try it again. He's like, no, I'm not going. I don't want to do Sunday school. I'm not going to. I'm going to sit in the service with you. We're like, no, I think it's a good idea. Whatever. So we don't like to do the whole bribing thing. We really try and stay away from, like, if you do this, you'll get this type of deal.

[Doug]

Yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

But I remembered a Story of where that worked for me as a kid. When I was a kid, I remember I had to go to the doctor to get a shot. I remember what it was. And I remember I was afraid of shots. And there was this Spider man motorcycle thing I saw at the groceries. I remember. I remember all of a story. So it was literally a motorcycle Spider man on it. I remember it like it was yesterday. And my mom said, hey, you know that Spider man motorcycle you want?

[Doug]

Yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

She goes, if you go get the shot and you don't cry, I'll get. I'll get that for you. And I. And I did. And she gave it to me. And I remember it because I remember after that I never cried again. I realized I can do this.

[Doug]

Yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

But I was motivated. So I talked to my wife and I'm like, I know we don't do, you know, bribing or whatever. I said, but there's this huge dinosaur toy he liked at Target he saw. I'm like, let me. Can I tell him I'll get him a prize if he could go there and be brave? And so she's like, ah, all right, let's give it a shot. So I did. I said, hey, I'll get you this big prize or whatever. And he's like, why can't I have it anyway? It's only if you do. I said, it's a really hard thing. I get it. You got to be brave. It's really tough. That's why I want to give you this prize if you could do it. And so he finally agreed. He went and he had so much fun. And then afterwards we got him the big ass dinosaur thing or whatever. But now he's like, he likes it so totally.

[Doug]

I mean, I think there's a. I think there's a place for that. I think you can overdo it. I think you. And then you. You train a kid who thinks that he gets. He gets something for everything. And so I'm not a fan of that for everything. But I do. I mean, I. I think I shared with this. I like, I look forward to the day with when he's actually like reading. I mean, I've already done it with his level of kind of somewhat reading right where he like, kind of like does the little pen thing that reads the book for him. But I like when he wants something, I try and especially if it's something I want to get him, like Lego something that I try and always attach it to something that he's got to accomplish. He's got to like either whether that be so many days of no iPad, or whether that's like reading so many books or, like, doing something like going into Sunday. Like, I try and attach it to things that challenges for him to accomplish in order to get that. So it's not just purely here you go. You just get this toy. I find that works really well for us.

[Caller]

It was funny. Yeah. Like, I remember vividly because my mom was part of the, I guess drama or theater or, like, choir at church and was always trying to get me in these plays, and I was just like, no, I'm not gonna do it. And then she bribed me with, like, this Decepticon toy. You know, it was the one that was like the airplane and.

[Adam Schafer]

Oh, yeah. You know, I had that one.

[Caller]

I was like, oh, yeah, dude, I'll do that. And I literally put tights on. I'm seeing, like, this little light of mine in front of the whole church for a freaking Decepticon.

[Doug]

Now look at you.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah, yeah. Now you love wearing tights.

[Doug]

Now I'm wigs. Tights. Whatever we get you to do for.

[Caller]

Commercial, I'll just do it for.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah.

[Caller]

Shameless plugs for our sponsors afterwards.

[Adam Schafer]

She's like, what did I do?

[Caller]

I created a monster.

[Adam Schafer]

Hey, I want to hear about what you were going to say about Pam. The non stick.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

Spray. Oh.

[Caller]

So I was just like. I read something and I just realized that, like, what really is pam, Dude. Okay. It's butane. It's basically like you're spraying, like, lighter fluid all over your pants.

[Doug]

What?

[Adam Schafer]

Yes.

[Caller]

And most aerosols that you have, like, have butane in it and have a lot of.

[Doug]

Well, they definitely do because it's crazy.

[Caller]

Yeah. Like chemicals, you know, just to any household, like, aerosol thing. You're just blasting yourself. Toxic chemicals.

[Adam Schafer]

I've never used Pam, but bodybuilders loved it.

[Doug]

I was like, no calories. I'm guilty.

[Caller]

I never thought.

[Doug]

I'm guilty for sure. You know, I'm glad this conversation came up, because it's been on my list to get this for Katrina for the longest time. Because we have Pam at the house, and I used to have back in these little. You fill it up with whatever you want. Pump spray. And we put olive oil in there.

[Adam Schafer]

And so it's a tiny spray.

[Doug]

And you. And you add to tiny pump. And you just pump. You just pump the olive oil for that.

[Adam Schafer]

Okay, so let's start at the top, Doug. Yeah. So here's the oils. Canola oil, palm oil, coconut oil. We could do without the canola oil, but fine nonstick agent. Scroll down. Soy lecithin anti foaming agent. Okay. Dimethyl silicone prevents foaming during spraying. So that's. Now you're in that. And then other ingredients. I love it when they say that. Other propellant, a gas like propane or butane. Natural flavors, which can be anything. Rosemary extract, wheat flour, and silicon dioxide.

[Caller]

Get the taste of butane out of my mouth.

[Adam Schafer]

So you're just. You're just spraying that on your pan and then eating it?

[Doug]

Yeah, yeah.

[Caller]

Everybody's been doing this for, like, I.

[Doug]

Wouldn'T say all the time, but we definitely use it.

[Adam Schafer]

It's because you did bodybuilding, so that's how you learned how to use it all the time.

[Caller]

Change it out.

[Doug]

But I, I. Like I said, I remember I used to have one of those little pump sprays, and that worked just as good. Just put olive oil in there.

[Adam Schafer]

So we always put butter on everything.

[Caller]

It's just like you go back and examine all these things that you've been doing decades, and you're just like, oh, my God, like, what the hell? Like, nobody's.

[Doug]

It's the convenience of it, too. Like, you say butter, you're right. But then it's like, I get the butter out. I got slices. It froz. Have soft butter already. It's just like it's versus.

[Adam Schafer]

Oh, God, that's terrible.

[Doug]

Well, I mean, you're. You're trying to cook something fast, and so Pam's right there. You just hit it one time and you're good to go. So that's why if you. I change it out with a. An olive oil spray, that. That, to me, that's just as easy. Just get it out, and then it'd be fine. And then you'd be good. So that's the move, I tell you, I did that with. So I bought. So Katrina and I. Katrina loves popcorn. That's like her. That's like her treat, right, Is popcorn. And I recently.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah, but you stopped the microwave stuff.

[Doug]

Yes, I stopped. I've shut that down. No more microwave popcorn. So I've been. I've been making her homemade popcorn. And so I just took it to the next level because I got. I said, hey, could you buy some of that? I believe it's not butter spray. She's like, what? You're going to use that? I'm like, no, no, no. I just want. I just want the bottle. So I got it, poured it out, and then I melted real butter in it. And so then I could spray real butter on the Popcorn. Because otherwise you drizzle it and then it, like, you know, some pieces.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah.

[Doug]

So pigs are soaked in butter. Then you get. Nothing like that. And so it's like one of the nice parts about, like, I can't believe that's butter. Sprays it, like, dispenses all over. All over the popcorn. So I put real butter in the. I can't. I, you know, soaked it and cleaned it all out.

[Adam Schafer]

That's why they can't believe it's not butter. It is butter.

[Doug]

Yeah. Yeah. So that's the newest thing over at our house. Now with the real popcorn, I got to get, like, an actual popcorn machine because right now I'm doing it kind of old school and just an air popper.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah.

[Doug]

And air. Yeah, I know I need to do that. I have just. Right now, I'm just doing it on the stove because I.

[Adam Schafer]

How often do you guys have popcorn?

[Doug]

Oh, she'll have it almost every night.

[Adam Schafer]

Oh, okay.

[Doug]

Yeah, yeah. Pretty much nightly. Yeah, it's. I mean, we'll go on, like, a kick right now where it's been like four or five nights, and if she hasn't. But then we'll go on a kick. We're like two weeks straight every night. So, yeah, it's a. It's a regular snack for our house, for sure. That's hers. Mine was always ice cream. Hers is popcorn.

[Adam Schafer]

She's got a better snack. Hey, if you have kids and you're listening to this, you probably want them to be healthy. There's a lot of vitamins out there for kids, but they're mostly candy. Well, there's a company called Haya Health that makes the only multivitamin for kids that we trust. It's not filled with sugar, it's not candy, and has good nutrients inside. Go check them out. Go to hyahealth.com, that's H I Y A health.com mindpump and on that link, you'll get 50% off your first order. All right, back to the show.

[Justin Andrews]

Our first caller is Jason from Colorado.

[Adam Schafer]

What's up, Jason?

[Doug]

Going on. Jason, what's up? Hey, guys.

[Jason]

How are you?

[Adam Schafer]

Good. How are you? How can we help you?

[Jason]

It's great to finally be on. I'm a huge fan.

[Doug]

Awesome.

[Jason]

Yeah, it's funny how much I relate to each one of you guys in a different way.

[Adam Schafer]

Very cool. Help you, man.

[Jason]

Well, I'll jump into the question here. I'm 51 years old, and I've been working out my whole life, you know, since high school football in the 90s P90X CrossFit Boot Camp Windler 5x5 Strong Lifts. The Strong Lifts App Fitbod App Yoga Peloton list goes on. I've had the ability to put on a lot of muscle when lifting, but try to deny that attribute in my 30s and 40s to focus more on cardio style workouts. Because I love mountain sports, mountain biking, hiking, snowboarding, and over the last eight years I've really focused on strength and gaining muscle. And that's when I found you guys. I've done my first round of Anabolic and really enjoyed it. I'm actually since I wrote this, I'm on my second round in phase three. All my numbers are solid. 325 bench, 400 squat, 450 deadlift. I think I could get those numbers up higher, but I work out at home alone so it's a little nerving to do it. I want to mention that I also ride a peloton two to three days a week during Anabolic because I wanted to keep my cardio in a good place. Here's my question. Since my muscle journey over eight years ago or eight. Yeah, eight years ago. My weight is about 35 pounds heavier than my hardcore mountain bike years when I didn't lift as much. According to my FFMI, I'm pushing at 25. I'm 5, 10, 2, 35, 20% body fat. Don't get me wrong, I feel great strong, et cetera. But 235 is kind of crazy. What should my next programming look like to get back to 205? Should I do a cut and ride the bike more? I feel like I've such different metabolism than most people I'm on. Nothing exogenous, just vitamins, creatine hit my protein daily. But I just keep getting stronger and stronger and gaining more and more weight. It seems like I really thought it would start burning more by more fat by now. Instead I just bought another pair of 45 pound plates to fill up some more for the home gym. So just kind of confused on what to do to get the weight down.

[Doug]

You're killing it.

[Adam Schafer]

First of all, what's your goal? What are your. What is your goal?

[Doug]

Is he wants to be 205 leaning more?

[Adam Schafer]

Is it to be leaner? Is it to have more stamina? Is it to be smaller because you feel different? Health, longevity, performance. That would help with the answer.

[Jason]

Yeah, I mean, you know, 51, so health, longevity, performance. I really enjoy lifting a lot, you know, so living in Colorado we have, you know, I Can't ride that often, so it's more snowboarding and whatnot. But it's hard to get up there as much as I'd like. So I spend, you know, my mornings lifting, you know, like two days a week or three days a week and then throwing the peloton there. But, you know, I. I like getting up in the mountains on my days off and spending, you know, four or five hours cruising around, either hiking or biking, and. And so really, you know, to get back down a little bit and wait. You guys just had the episode a couple weeks, I think, a week ago about, are you too muscular? I listened to that. I go, oh, man, maybe I should, like, pare it down a little bit. So just wondering what direction I should go. I mean, I've never really done a cut or anything like that. I think I've been bulking for 30 years. You know, I just. I eat intuitively. I work in the food and beverage industry, so, you know, tons of protein and. And that, you know, I hit my protein goals, especially after listening to you guys. I'm really focused on that. But, yeah, just kind of want to lean down and get to 205 without starving myself.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah. Okay. So that's okay. That. That helps a lot. You know, what's cool about the physical attributes is they kind of act like a checks and balances to each other, right? So if you start pushing only in one direction, you'll gain lots of performance in that direction, but you'll start to compromise longevity and health a little bit. Right? So if you go strength is great, but if it's only about strength, you start to lose stamina, endurance, mobility sometimes, and you can compromise health. Same thing with endurance. You can go too far in that direction. So they do help keep each other in the checks and balances when it comes to just overall health and longevity. Now you are doing peloton. You are outside, you know, doing the mountain sports. You said you spend a lot of time out there. If your stamina and endurance are great out there, then that's great. Now if you want to get smaller for the improved performance you get from being smaller, which is true. It is true. Like, there are some sports where size makes a difference, either in the positive or negative. Mountain sports, probably better to be a little lighter, but if you were, you know, in football, heavier might be better, so long as your performance isn't compromised. So really, this is a. This is a diet thing. I think going in a cut, in a slow cut would be a great strategy. I don't think you'd see huge decreases in performance. You would see some because you're in a calorie deficit. But a nice slow cut would kind of get you leaner. And I'd say get you around 15 body fat. 15 is a nice athletic body fat for most people. And then see where your body weight is around there. You know, if it. If it brings you down to 215 or so, 210, that's probably a good body weight.

[Doug]

I'll give. I'll be even more specific on what I would do. I would go to Maps 15 with the extra time that I have because I'm doing a weightlifting program that only takes 15, 20 minutes. I would add 20 minutes of lists right after that. So I'd get my lift in and then I do 20, 30 minutes of kind of list, which is just kind of steady state cardio. And then since you've always been in this perma bulk and you've never really tried to cut, I'd probably look at a couple outliers in your diet and just tighten it up a tiny bit, like just adding that extra cardio and tightening up the diet, like, whatever. And you probably know obviously better than I do because we haven't known each other long enough to know, like, you know, what's your thing? Do you, you know, eat out a couple times a day or a week or do you have, you know, pizza and beer every once in a while? Like, what are your. What are the greatest offenders? That pushes you over on calories that you're aware of. Tighten that up a little bit so it puts you in a little bit of a calorie deficit with the additional movement that you could do. And the only reason why I'm going the route of all this extra cardio is because it will serve you on your pursuit of your other things that you love. Right. You like doing all this outdoor physical activity. That it endurance and stamina will benefit you. So just tightening up the diet, a tiny and not going drastic. I don't want you to cut the calories. Five hundred, a thousand. I think you just tightening it up a little bit. With that additional movement and reducing the volume of training, I think you'll keep most all your muscle. You'll increase some endurance and you'll lean out.

[Adam Schafer]

That's. It'll probably look like, like over time, you know, two to four pounds a month. Yep. Of weight loss. So nice. Slow fat loss would be a nice approach.

[Jason]

Yeah. Now, I don't know how Adam knew about the pizza and beer, but yeah, that's probably.

[Doug]

It just sounds like, it sounds like the right thing. Just sounds like the right thing to do after those great activities. Yeah, yeah, it's, it's literally that it could be that simple for, I mean, you're in a really cool place, especially if, you know, you're probably eating a good amount of calories, which I'm assuming you are, to maintain that kind of size and muscle mass and strength. So you really, you know, you just tighten it up, tighten it up a little bit on the diet and you add, you take a program like map 15, you add more cardio, like list typed activity right afterwards. So kind of cruising on your peloton bike or whatever you want. And that should do it. Like Sal said, just a nice. And then if you want to speed it up, you tighten the diet up more. So if you feel like I'm not leaning out fast enough, well, then there's room in the diet and that's all I would mess with. Because you've got those things that, you know, that you are probably pushing the calories on and you've never really put yourself in a diet or a restriction. But this is a way to do it, I think, subtle and easy and should cruise right into where you want to be.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah. You shouldn't notice decreases in. You should feel better overall by doing it this way. It's a slow, gradual fat loss. You're cutting out things that are really not as healthy, really, because you're not doing this crazy cut. You're just kind of removing, like Adam said, the gross offenders. So you should just notice. You feel better. You just feel better overall.

[Jason]

Yeah. That's awesome. Thank you. Yeah. I mean, Anabolic's been, been great. You know, it was a good workout. I mean, I, I, I really love the periodization of it. You know, it, it's a good change up. And even with my five by fives that I was doing in the past, just, just learning from like Andy Gelpin and everybody else about taking those breaks longer and just getting the heavier lifts. It got, it was fun, you know, it's fun, like getting those numbers up. But then all this and I stayed away from the scale the whole bit. And then I jumped on the scale the other day. I'm like, oh, no. Oh, Like I'm way stronger. But it's, it, I just pack on the muscle like crazy. You know, it's just weird. I've always kind of been this way. If I quit lifting, I, I tend to thin down a lot. And when I left, I just, you know, I Get bulked up pretty quick.

[Doug]

It's a good problem to have.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah, the slow cut will be great.

[Doug]

Yeah, that's why. That's why I went that direction. You strike me as somebody who puts on muscle relatively easy, which means you'll probably hang on, you'll preserve it really easy. It will not. And so probably the hardest thing, Jason, will be going from anabolic down to 15. You're going to feel like it's not enough. You're going to be like, oh, my God, this is, like, way less lifting. Don't be afraid of that. You're going to. I bet you, you keep your strength, you may even go up. So, and that's when. If we, when, when, you know, you hit the beautiful spot is when we barely cut any calories. We just clean the diet up a little bit, and you actually see yourself maintain or maybe even get a little stronger while you're also slowly going down. Like, that means, like, everything is perfect. As far as the calories you're taking in, the volume you're doing now, you could expect to. To get a little weaker. It's not uncommon to be in a cut to reduce volume and to pick up a little bit of cardio, to see a little bit of strength drop off. But that's kind of our gauge of if you're not pushing, if you're pushing it too hard or not, is that you should probably maintain most of it as you go down and just nice and slow like that. And again, if you want to speed it up, then you start cutting the calories, and I just cut, like, five. Then I would intentionally cut 500 calories. Like, okay, here's my day. Here's. I know what I'm doing. I'm cutting a. Basically a meal out of my day every day. And that'll also lean you out even faster. But I think you can do it just by cleaning up some of the gross offenders.

[Adam Schafer]

How often are you doing, like, the beer and pizza thing?

[Jason]

Just weekends, you know, I'm. I do a good job eating like an S.O. on the weekends.

[Doug]

I mean, I mean, I, I keep.

[Jason]

It clean during the week, and then, you know, I, I, you know, I'm in the F B business. I was a chef for 30 years, so, you know, I like cheese, my man.

[Doug]

That's your thing with Jason, for sure.

[Jason]

Yeah, I'm good at staying away from the carbs for the most part, but just weekends, you know, it's. It's really just that, you know, what's.

[Adam Schafer]

Funny is if you just cut out that Yep. You. Yeah. You'd already lean out. Yeah, that's it. Yeah. It would just be the weekends. Yeah, that's it.

[Doug]

Just if you do. Just if. Jason, take my. We're going to send Maps 15 to you. Follow my advice for that program, and I think I'm going to give you exactly what you want. I literally. And then we can talk about how we reintroduce the pizza, beer and things like that. That. To keep a balance on it. But if you, if you tighten that up for. For the, The. The length of that Mass 15 program and take the advice on the. Just adding a little bit of cardio after the workout, I think you're gonna. You're gonna see exactly what you want.

[Jason]

Awesome. Awesome.

[Doug]

I, I really.

[Jason]

I, I really had no idea what you guys are gonna say. I, I kind of wondered. But that map maps 15 does sound pretty cool.

[Doug]

Cool.

[Adam Schafer]

That's.

[Jason]

I'm excited. And I, you know, I have a home gym, so I just work out in the basement. Been doing it for years, so it makes it super easy to get down there and just knock it out in the morning and get about the day.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah, you got it, man.

[Doug]

I'd love to hear back from you if you follow it. I mean, stick with it and keep us posted and then I'd love to follow back up with you to see how it went for you.

[Jason]

Yeah, absolutely.

[Caller]

Absolutely.

[Jason]

It's a real, real honor to be on. Guys. I'm a huge fan. I think what you guys are doing is just amazing. I think what got me super hooked was just how well you connect with women, you know, Sounds weird to say, but, you know, I got my wife listening and, you know, my kids now are kind of listening to what I tell them that I hear from you guys. But it's really awesome, really awesome what you guys do. You really do a good job, like, well, rounding the whole thing.

[Doug]

Appreciate it. Appreciate that, Jason. Thank you, man. We'll send that over to you.

[Jason]

Great. Thank you.

[Doug]

All right, brother.

[Adam Schafer]

Take it easy. Yeah, you get the nail on the, on the head with the pizza and beer. You know, just that, like, people don't realize, like, because that's common sports and.

[Caller]

That is like a. Yeah, this is.

[Adam Schafer]

Where it's a common.

[Doug]

This is where my advice of when the weekend came from.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah.

[Doug]

Was lit. I. That I could not figure out for the life of me why I couldn't break this body fat percentage for years. Because I was in. I was. I was a trainer. And it was like I was dialed Monday through Friday dialed. I mean, I made, ate all my meals, trained, worked out all the time. Yeah, everything. And it was like I would just let Saturday or not even both days, Saturday or Sunday. It'd be like there'd be a day I sleep in, eat whatever the hell I wanted it was. But then the rest was dialed child. And that was enough to just kind of cancel out what the. The positive I was doing during the week. And just me going okay, flipping it on its head and saying. And what I didn't get to tell him. Hopefully he listens. This is that I even would tell myself psychologically I can still have the pizza and beer, just not on the weekend. Weekend I gotta be perfect if I really need my pizza and beer because I've had it, I'll have it on Monday night or Thursday. And then what ended up happening was when I would just do really well on those weekends and I would see what the benefits of it. It was easy to not to pass up on the pizza during the week.

[Adam Schafer]

Really common for a consistent fitness enthusiast who also likes doing outdoor activity to do that on the weekend. And just cutting that just so people understand the numbers. I would with a client like that because there's a. That's about. That's like a. There's like. That's like a stereotype of a particular client. That's I think why you did so well with hitting the nail on the head. That's like a 3 to 5% loss on body fat totally consistently.

[Doug]

Easy. Yeah, easy. He'll go down to 15%. He will get if he. If he just does that. And so the audience knows too. And what I would be communicating if he was my client is like, hey, I'm not telling you you can't have pizza and beer ever again. This is just to show you what an impact. Yeah. What it's doing and what. And. And that normally is a nut. Which is just like how it was for me. It was like I saw that I went, oh my God. I didn't realize how much that was setting back then. It made it really easy to. To pass on it unless it was a very special occasion. It's like, do I really need the pizza and beer today? I really don't. It's not a big deal. And then over time it would be like, okay, this is a special event, someone's birthday. Like I'm going to enjoy myself. And then I would do the things necessary to counter it. But yeah, he. If he follows this, I promise he'll come back leaner, just as strong, feeling way better. Like so let's see what happens.

[Justin Andrews]

Our next caller is Megan from Minnesota.

[Doug]

Hi Megan, how can we help you do Megan?

[Sal DiStefano]

Hi guys.

[Megan]

I'm so excited to talk to you.

[Adam Schafer]

Same.

[Megan]

I'll read my question. So I need help regarding my diet. So I'm 30 years old and I've battled my weight my entire life.

[Sal DiStefano]

Life.

[Megan]

I'm five three. At my highest weight I was 190. I'm currently at 146. I did have one baby in between there recently I did a DEXA scan that said my body fat percentage is 29% and I bounced back and forth between those two weights for the last 10 years or so. So obviously I can lose the weight. For me it's hard to lose it and it's hard to keep it there. At this current weight I'd like to lose another 10 or 20 pounds. But more, more just focus on the body fat percentage. I'm currently around 1700 calories and hit my protein goal of 150 grams every day. Weightlift three to five times a week. I do have a very active job. So when I punch in all this info into a macro calculator it always tells me this is about where I need to be for my macros, weight, height, all that stuff. The problem is that I am starving all the time. Mornings I feel fine and then it's about mid afternoon afternoon when I get done with work I'm really hungry. So then all evening I'm kind of battling myself. Can I have that other snack? I'm still hungry. Should I eat more but my macros tell me not to. Then I end up some days binging, having some pretty crappy food. I'm under the BMI requirements for a GLP1 so I would have loved to try that but any profession I've talked to says I'm too low on the bmi. So is there another option for appetite suppressant or do I need to try and stay consistent for longer to reduce that hunger and it'll go away, increase calories, whatnot. One other thing to add, I have used Ventermine in the past and it worked really well for me. But from what I can tell there's not many long term studies for using it for long. So that's why I've stopped it recently.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah, I would stay away from that. Okay, so reverse diet dude. I could. Look, I'm gonna give you the, I'll give you the like the x's and O's. Okay? But this isn't gonna be the full story I think there's, there's much more to the story or there's a much more complete answer that's gonna help you. And this is based off of a couple things that you said. Now, first off, I think you know what you're doing. I think you understand macros, I think you understand exercise, you understand activity. But there's a couple things you said. You've battled your weight your entire life, you mentally battle yourself when you come home, and then it sometimes turns into a binge. So there's a couple reasons why people feel the term starving. There's a couple reasons why people will say they feel starving. One, their intake is too low. Okay. Two, more commonly, they have a relationship with food that has really more to do with other things. Typically it's emotional connections or for lack of a better term, a dysfunctional relationship with food. So you're either self medicating with food or you have in the past. And this is a relationship's a very tough one to break. And so either stress or circumstance or emotion, it's a trigger. And this is something that you've just dealt with your entire life. And, and fighting it is not how you win this. What we have to do is identify and slowly go with it and take away the shame and work, work with what's happening and not fight it so hard. So here's a strategy that I'm going to give you. First, I think we should bump your calories a little more and I think you should eat more at the front half of the day. So I think we need to go into the day with more calories, bump them up a little bit, go with that a bit. But then also examine what's going on with your relationship with food. And when that comes up, you got to pause for a second and go into it and feel it and write things down. Because otherwise what's going to happen is you're going to avoid it, which is probably what it looks like. Oh my God, I'm starving. I'm going to ignore it. I'm going to ignore it. I'm going to ignore it. And then it hits you, it hits you and you become overcome with this behavior. Again, for lack of a better term, the behavior probably looks like fast, fast eating. I'm a bit distracted with it. And then followed by, what have I done? Shame cycle begins again. Okay, so, so I'm gonna have you, I, I would have you increase your calories. You're at 1700. Let's bring them up to 1900. Let's front load the calories a little bit. We've identified when it's the hardest, which is when you get home from work. When you get home from work, we're going to interrupt that behavior with something else. You know, this happens after work. Can you create time and space for yourself after work to come home and journal for 10 minutes, write down what you're feeling and don't ignore it. And if it's just literally one sentence, I can't stop thinking about food and then write it again. I can't like. And just allow yourself to go into it and be present with that feeling. And it's gonna suck. But the avoiding part is what results in the back and forth whiplash. And then the inevitable is gonna happen. Megan, you're gonna do what I'm telling you. You're going to succeed. Sometimes you're going to fail. Sometimes when the failure happens, it's not. I can't believe I did that. What's wrong with me? Oh, my God. I can't stop this. It's okay. I knew that would happen. Let's start again. This doesn't mean I'm a bad person. This is a challenge that I have, and I'm going to try again to get in that shame cycle. It's going to feed into this. But we have to work with the. What are the triggers and the behavior. Like. Like I said, the. The strategy with the calories is going to help a little bit, but it's not going to solve the root cause of this. And this is going to take a little while. It's a little while of an issue because it is something you've been do. Doing as you said, for a long time.

[Doug]

So if and only if I ask.

[Megan]

A question real quick.

[Doug]

Yes, go ahead.

[Sal DiStefano]

Okay.

[Megan]

So you talked about front loading the calories early in the day. My fear or hesitation. And this again, goes back to the mental side of it, is that leaves me less at the end of the day.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah.

[Megan]

Which is when I feel hungry.

[Adam Schafer]

That's right. Yep.

[Doug]

Yeah. But you're getting hungry and then eating like crazy. So what Sal's trying to do is trying to suppress that by giving you what you need early. Because what ends up happening is that is a. That's your body responding because it hasn't had enough calories. And so then you feel that way.

[Adam Schafer]

It's not just that either, Megan. It's also this. That might happen. Okay. That might happen. But here's the. Here's the strategy that we're going into. It's probably easier for you to Know that I don't have any calories left, so I can't eat anything. Than it is to say I gotta eat 300 calories and that's it. And that's just now, later on it's gonna look different. This is why sometimes fasting helps people. Not always, but sometimes it helps people because it's like, well, I have nothing, I'm not gonna eat anything. So I gotta deal with this feeling. So that's why I'm saying, frontly, load your calories. You know what's gonna happen when you get home from work. You know, I know what's gonna happen. I expect this to happen. I'm gonna sit down, I'm gonna write it, I'm gonna feel it, let myself go through this. And it's gonna be a struggle. And expect the struggle. Do not expect to front load your calories. Have no hunger. Expect to front load your calories. You still might get hungry. But here's what happens. The fear that you're starting to feel that you're dealing with, you're struggling with, like, oh, my God, what if I do this? What if I do that? That's actually fueling some of what's happening. Okay? So it's easier to go to know I have really nothing left for the rest of the day. I'm just gonna have to deal with this feeling than it is to be like, I got, you know, 500 calories left. Let me eat that first and see how I feel. Because what happens is it starts, it turns into, and I know you experienced this, where you'll eat where you're supposed to, and the ball gets rolling and then you can't stop it until you, ah, what have I done?

[Doug]

There's. There's also this possibility because, I mean, if everything Sal's saying is resonates, then, and that's. It's. He's a spot on and that's awesome. But if some of what he's saying isn't resonating with you, like, you don't really feel like you have that relationship with food. It's not like that. It could be as simple as this is your body screaming to you that it needs more calories. You're lifting weights like you should be doing. You're in. You have an active job, you said, and only 1700 calories is not enough for you to build the muscle that your body wants to build. And it could be just trying to tell you that, like, I need more calories if I to build this muscle. You're sending me the signal when I lift those weights. But then you're only giving me this. That's not enough. That's enough for me to maintain my weight, but it's not enough for me to put muscle on my body. And that feeling that you're getting is your body kind of screaming at you that, hey, give me some more nutrients so I can build some muscle on this body and speed this metabolism up. But you're not doing it. So it could be as simple as that. That's what's going on.

[Adam Schafer]

I think it's both or it could be.

[Doug]

Yeah. Or it could be deeper, like Sal is saying, or probably more likely combination of both.

[Adam Schafer]

I think there's real hunger because your calories are low and you're pretty active, but I think it's exacerbated by this, this lifelong relationship you have with your weight. So I think it's both. I don't think it's one or the other. I think it's definitely both. I'd like to see you bump Your calories to 1900. I'd like to see you focus on your strength. Take your take. Stop weighing yourself. Just focus on. And I know the fear. If I take my eyes off the scale, I'm going to go crazy. I don't think that's going to happen. But if it does a little bit, that's okay. Focus 1,900 calories. Focus on getting stronger. When you things feel okay at 1900 calories, bring them up again. 2000 calories. Go up 100 calories at a time, real small, real slow. And what probably will happen is you'll get stronger, you'll build more muscle, you'll feed yourself more and you'll start being less afraid of food. It's not going to be so scary because like, oh my God, I'm eating 2300 calories. I feel good. Let me try moving up again. So what you're doing is you're changing the relationship you have to food while simultaneously feeding your body what it needs.

[Megan]

So how do. How do I know that? Okay, I know you. If you gain strength, you're gaining muscle. How do I know if I'm also gaining body fat or if the body fat's going down? Do I have to keep doing these.

[Sal DiStefano]

DEXA scans or are there other signs you might.

[Doug]

You might put a little bit of body fat on. It might be necessary for. It's really tough to build muscle and not put a little bit of body fat on while you're doing that.

[Adam Schafer]

You're so hyper focused on the Scale and that. That it's messing you up.

[Doug]

Yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

So just take your eyes off it. Here's how you know that you're just, You're. Oh, my God. I feel out of control of my diet. I feel out of control of my diet. Okay. We got to reign it in a little bit. But if you feel okay, you might have that little fear in your head, like, well, how do I know I'm doing okay? Because I feel good. That's how. So trust it.

[Doug]

Megan, have you. Have you ever considered hiring a coach to kind of take you through this process?

[Megan]

Yeah, I do feel like I know what I'm doing and I know, like, I knew what you guys were going to tell me before I got here, but it was kind of like Sal has said recently, I think I probably do need someone else to tell me what to do, even though I think I know what I'm doing.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah, the coach. What a coach will do, Megan, is, is through this process, there's a couple things they'll do that are really good.

[Caller]

Stress too.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah. And they're going to let you. They're going to, they're going to forecast for you, which is so powerful. Megan, like, if I like me telling you it's going to be really hard, and then it's hard, you're like, oh, yeah, he told me. And they're going to be more specific as they continue to work with you. Hey, this week, here's probably what you're going to feel. And then when you have those challenges, here's where it's really powerful. You get on with your coach. Oh, my God. Yesterday I totally screwed up. Like, you're giving it to them and they're going to tell you that's okay. It's totally fine. Okay. I feel a little better about this. And that's just the surface. There's so much deeper what a good coach can do. Why don't we have one of our coaches? Here's the thing with coaches. Some are good and some aren't so good. Why don't I have one of ours call you and you just ask them questions, see if it works for you. But I think, I think if you, if you, if we get you started on the right track and stay consistent for a little while, I think this will be solved. Okay.

[Megan]

And yeah, like you said, one of my hesitations with getting a coach is I don't trust a lot of people. So, like, I trust your guys opinion and I trust coaches that would work with you. But to find a Joe Schmo off The street kind of scares me because what if.

[Sal DiStefano]

What if they are.

[Adam Schafer]

You're right.

[Doug]

No, you're.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah, that's a very, very valid fear. All right, I'll have somebody reach out to you. Megan, that'd be great.

[Doug]

Yep.

[Adam Schafer]

You got it. Thanks for calling in. Oh, by the way, are you following any of our programs?

[Megan]

Oh, she's gonna get one, So I was just doing anabolic, but I get a little bit bored, so I. I'm thinking of switching to muscle mommy. I just bought it, so.

[Doug]

Awesome.

[Megan]

I'm thinking about doing that one next.

[Adam Schafer]

Awesome. All right, well, if you work with one of our coaches, they'll set you up with whatever program you need. Need.

[Megan]

Okay.

[Doug]

That'd be great.

[Sal DiStefano]

Thank you, guys.

[Adam Schafer]

You got it. Me.

[Caller]

All right, thanks.

[Sal DiStefano]

Bye.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah, Good. That's good. Good. Good direction, Adam.

[Doug]

Yeah. No, I could just. You. You could tell from your. Your. Your point, what you said to her. She know. She. She knows what she's kind of doing, right? It's not a. It's not. I don't understand macros. I understand. Yeah. She's doing a lot of the right things. There's obviously some. Which is what I'm assuming. Why. What you. What you saw.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah.

[Doug]

Why you went deep emotional with food and relationships, and I just wanted to make sure that maybe it was. If it wasn't that, then it could be as just simple as she needs a reverse diet. But it sounds like it's. It's both, right. It sounds like there's something going on there. And this is where even if you have all the knowledge and understanding of macros and lifting weights, having a coach totally. Who really you can trust, that can take you through this process makes a world of a difference.

[Adam Schafer]

Listen, just this alone, okay? Because this was. I realized that for some of my clients, this was my greatest value. You. They could offload and offset their mistakes onto me, and I take the shame away because their trainer, who they trusted, said, it's totally fine.

[Doug]

Yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

Totally normal. And then they let go of that shame. Oh, Sal said it was okay.

[Caller]

I guess it is reassurance, dude. And people need that.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah. Because the shame is in a situation like this fuels this behavior, and it becomes a cycle. It's so hard to break.

[Doug]

For our coaches and trainers that listen to this show, it's. This is a very important skill that you have to learn. When you have clients that mess up or on the program. This is that. This is when you.

[Adam Schafer]

And they all will.

[Doug]

And they all will. Where you go. Don't worry about it. I Got you. This is what we're going to do. Totally normal. Happens to my clients all the time. It's not that big of a deal. This is what we're going to do.

[Adam Schafer]

Now and put things in context. How far are you today than you were six months.

[Doug]

That's right. That is so powerful to let them. Because what ends up happening to most people is they. They do so well. Then they have this hiccup or they have this and then they spiral out. Like it's. And it's really not that big of a deal. It's one day or it was one week. Whatever it is, don't worry.

[Adam Schafer]

It's also a good coach knows this is going to happen. Expect it.

[Doug]

Right.

[Adam Schafer]

Forecast it, deal with it the right way.

[Justin Andrews]

Our next caller is Gabby from California.

[Adam Schafer]

Gabby, what's up?

[Doug]

How you doing, Gabby?

[Adam Schafer]

How can we help you?

[Caller]

Hello.

[Sal DiStefano]

Hi. I have to just say, first off, Gabriella, my mom will be so mad if you don't call me that instead. So, Gabriella, it's Dutch and it has to be like that.

[Adam Schafer]

Sorry, Gabrielle.

[Sal DiStefano]

I'm so excited. Thank you for having me. I want to say. Yeah, okay. I've been lifting for 10 years, lifting and eating for the last couple of years. So I've seen a big difference there. But my nutritionist recently asked me to think of some smart goals for myself. So specific, measurable, achievable, relevant, time bound. And I'm kind of struggling, struggling to think of some things. I'm really enjoying the journey right now. I like pushing my body and feeding myself and seeing the results. But. And I do have some lifts I'd like to improve. But can or should somebody really set smart goals for their lifts? Like, if I wanted to add five pounds to my bench press, where. How do I put a timeline on that? And then if I did, would I maybe be setting goals in my brain that my body kind of can't follow through with and then am I setting myself up for injury and failure at that point? I used to be a runner, so there was a lot of smart goals there. Everything was measurable. You want to run a marathon by this time and you want to run that fast.

[Adam Schafer]

It was.

[Sal DiStefano]

That seemed a lot easier for me. And like I said, I enjoy the journey, but sometimes I feel like having those smart goals or something like training for a marathon, it makes it a little bit easier to explain to people what you're doing and where your goals are and why you might be like, like missing out on, like, might not be indulging in this or that or that you have to get your workouts in and stuff the way you prioritize your stuff. So. And they're just reassuring sometimes on your journey. So what might be some smart goals someone can set for themselves on a journey, like a health and fitness journey, and then specifically with lifts. And then what are some smart goals you guys have for yourselves? Is my first question. And then I also have a question about medial triceps, tendon snapping. You don't need to ask that now.

[Adam Schafer]

No, no, let's do the first one.

[Doug]

And even before we do the first one, can you back up and can you give me a little backstory on why the nutritionist and like, why she may be or he may be setting these goals for you currently? And I only ask that because you look like you're in incredible shape already. You don't look like somebody who needs coaching for nutrition or doesn't know what they're doing. So I'm just curious to what led.

[Adam Schafer]

Exactly what I was gonna ask.

[Doug]

What led to the nutritionist and why are they trying to set these like, specific goals with somebody who looks like they got a pretty good of nutrition?

[Sal DiStefano]

Because I like, like the having a goal like I did when I was running. I kind of like the little challenges you can do with a gym or with friends. So like I just did a 60 day challenge thing and that included a nutritionist and a couple in bodies and just a couple things that you had to get in during the day. I really like those. Kind of gives you a span and it and an end time just to kind of something to shoot for. It's not like I need that, but I enjoy those, I think because of those.

[Adam Schafer]

Okay.

[Sal DiStefano]

Kind of wanting to timeline stuff.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah, you don't you. So. So there's two things here. I get it. You enjoy having little targets, which is awesome. You also don't need goals. And I think that's why Adam asked that. Because if your nutritionist is saying, hey, you should set a goal, and you're like, well, I don't, you know, I'm enjoying the journey. I don't really feel like I need a goal. You don't. You don't need a goal. You're doing great. Right. But if you like targets, if you like, you know, these mini accomplishments, I'll give you a great one. For someone like you who's fit, who looks like you've been working out for a while, one of the best goals you can have is to learn a new exercise and get good at it. So try a movement that you've never done like a bent press, a one arm deadlift, a windmill, a Zercher deadlift or squat or something that you've never done before that you've never really practiced getting good at. And then make the goal. I want to get really good at that. And then you can say for the next three months I'm going to be practicing the Turkish get up and I'm going to try and get really good at that. Now the byproduct of that is overall. Yeah. Strength, everything. Fitness, mobility. It's a great accomplishment because it's performance based. It feels really good. So I, I think for people like you, I think that's because there's definitely exercises that you probably don't do all the time. You can't do all of them. So pick one. Say, you know, for the next two months I'm going to get really good at this movement and then see what happens. I think that'll, that's a really. And that one lasts a long time. You can do that for, for five years. You can pick different exercises.

[Doug]

I, I could be. I'm going to say something you're probably not going to like and I apologize ahead of time if I'm way off base on this, but you might be somebody who. I would go the opposite direction of what you're trying to do right now. I mean if I, if you were a client of mine and we, we were talking about like how you like to. And like every time you train or you do something, you always have to have some sort of a goal or a thing you're going after in order for you to do it. I'm going to push you in the other direction. I'm actually going to because I, and it's because I can tell that you're already good. Like you are fit, you are healthy, you're probably really strong. Like you're all the above. But if everything you do inside the gym has to be attached to some smart goal or thing you have to be chasing, I would be really trying to push you into the opposite direction of can we just enjoy this process and can you think, you know what I'm saying? Like, I don't know enough because we haven't, we haven't known each other long enough. But from this little bit of time we've been talking right now, it feels like you could be somebody like this who you, every time you're working out, you have to have something you're going after. Is that true?

[Sal DiStefano]

Yeah, I guess a little bit of a chaser yeah, yeah.

[Doug]

Now. Yeah. So.

[Sal DiStefano]

So you're running past.

[Doug]

So you're the client. I would push back on this and. And I'd want you to work on removing that. I would want you to. Yeah.

[Sal DiStefano]

And that can be a goal on itself.

[Doug]

Exactly. No. 100 so. Because that's still a cool goal to go after, but it's like, hey, can I just start to let go of some of these things? I don't necessarily need to hit a pr. I don't need to follow these exact guidelines. And, like, can I just start to intuitively eat and intuitively train? And so that would be our goal. Mine. And your goal would be because you've. You've accomplished, I think, the fitness part of it. It's like, can I now. Can I can maintain this healthy fit, physique and health and intuitively do it? That would be, I think, a better.

[Caller]

Yeah, and if you journal your way through that, then it becomes somewhat tangible for you as well. So the. The intuitive part is great because you're listening and you're. You're paying attention to the feedback that your body's providing. So sometimes, like, I'll come into the gym and I'm like, I really, really feel like, you know, I want to do some rows. I want to work on my back. I want to do posterior work today. And it's just that it's like a craving I have for, you know, that type of stimulus and to, you know, kind of journal that, see the progression of, like, what you're drawn towards or, like, what, you know, you're drawn towards, like, nutritionally and just kind of see how your body kind of, like, you know, ebb and flows with. With all this stuff and really enjoy that process, and you can kind of tap in a little bit more to, you know, how your body's rhythms are. So I think it's. I think it's a really rad goal, if you think about it.

[Sal DiStefano]

Okay.

[Doug]

Yeah.

[Sal DiStefano]

I mean, I just turned 40, so I think that that was something I was considering too, just like, in this little bit older part of life, just. Yeah. Just living the life and. And being okay with that and. And locking it in as a lifestyle. So I think that, that. Yeah, you're right. That is a goal enough.

[Doug]

I mean, I appreciate you appreciate that you didn't get offended. That's a hard one for me to have to tell somebody sometimes, especially over a call. And really, I always expect, like, oh, boy, I'm gonna say this shit, and they're gonna get really defensive about this. But the fact that you have the self awareness to know that that probably is you is a really cool sign. And that's a good goal. I think it's a really good goal for us to move in that direction. Are you already in our private forum?

[Sal DiStefano]

I know I'm on. Is it just a Facebook page that anybody can be on?

[Doug]

No, it's a. No. We have to give you access to. It's a private forum. Yeah. So I'm going to have Doug send that to you and give you free access to that so you have, like, direct access to us. Awesome. Thank you. And I would love to be a part of this and support you as you go through this, because I know when I have clients that this, this is what we're trying to do. It's not easy. It's, it's. It takes steps. And we may not. You may not be the type that wants to rip the band aid off and just go from no goals or no focus whatsoever right out the gates. It's like, so it's like, hey, let's, let's, let's ease our way into that. And so if, if I and the guys can be there to support you through this, that would be the best way is to get you in the forum. And then as you're going through it, if you have questions or you have things you're kind of. I like to do that. And then I'd also like Doug to send you our intuitive nutrition guide, which has very specific kind of goals and steps to get you to intuitive eating. So between. Between that and then us kind of communicating about the lifting, I think this would be a great, A great direction for you, especially where you're currently at in your life. You look phenomenal.

[Caller]

Yep.

[Sal DiStefano]

Well, thank you. And two, as long as I can stay stronger than my teenage son, I.

[Doug]

Think I like that. I like that.

[Adam Schafer]

That's a great goal.

[Doug]

That is. That is. That is a great goal. Did you have a second question that we didn't answer? Yeah, I didn't see.

[Sal DiStefano]

So I have a tendon here on the inside of my elbow that pops back and forth over it, especially during bench press, push ups, overhead tricep extensions. I did see a physical therapist, and he recommended isometric holds kind of in that, like this, you know, a little bit of a pull, and it is helping. But I just wondered if you guys had anything else you'd recommend as well as, like, changing my grip occasionally.

[Adam Schafer]

Did they identify if it was the ulnar nerve? Nerve or the. The tricep tendon itself? Did you get diagnosed with, like, snapping elbow syndrome?

[Sal DiStefano]

No, I did not.

[Adam Schafer]

Okay. So does it. Does it get sore in your funny bone? Does it feel like it kind of gets sore right in that little.

[Sal DiStefano]

Yeah, like golfer's elbow or whatever. Yeah, just this inside part. And occasionally when I. When I do hit it on something, it does. It will. Like, if it is already tender, if I hit it on something, it will hurt.

[Adam Schafer]

Okay. That's your ulnar nerve. So. So what you want to do is really good static stretching with the forearm cars, forearm extenders for, you know, the forearm flexors extenders, static stretching.

[Doug]

Prime pro. Give her prime pro. Also prime.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah, let's send her prime pro because there's some great wrist in wrist, wrist movements in cars. Static stretching of the tricep as well should help. The next phase would get. Would be to work with, and this would be a great. I mean, if you have. If you find a really good. Good bodywork specialists that understands good. You know, they might label it myofascial release or whatever, and they'd work on your forearms, and they really work.

[Doug]

This is also a great way to lead our fitness goal right now. Like, now, here's. Here's the thing that. Let's take care of this. Let's make that a. Let's make that a priority. Going into your workouts now instead, like, instead of us trying to chase in a PR with an exercise, it's like, hey, you've identified. You've got this golfer's elbow kind of issue going on. There's some tedious type of mobility stuff that we should do every single day. But if we do a good job being consistent with it going into your workouts, you should notice this. Go away. And prime pro has the wrist, and I probably do some shoulder stuff with you in there. And that this would become a thing that we do every time before we work out. For sure.

[Adam Schafer]

Little easy test, too. If you did, like, a really good static stretch before, you did a lift, that tends to bother that area, and then go back in a lift, see how you feel. Yeah, it should help.

[Sal DiStefano]

All right. I also just had to say. So you guys have that new to weightlifting bundle. Every time you say it, I hear nude weightlifting, and I cannot. I cannot unhear it. So if you guys end up. I'm gonna pass on the nude weightlifting program because I think I'm a little old for that.

[Adam Schafer]

That was Adam's gym idea. He wanted to open a gym like that. Yeah.

[Sal DiStefano]

Maybe your next day.

[Doug]

Yeah. Think it's. I think it's a banger of an idea.

[Adam Schafer]

Who's gonna, who's gonna wipe the benches down?

[Doug]

Yeah, that's a lot of pinching, I think.

[Caller]

Thank you.

[Adam Schafer]

Thanks for calling, calling in Gabrielle.

[Sal DiStefano]

Thank you guys so much. I really appreciate everything you do. You guys are my favorite.

[Doug]

We'll see you.

[Adam Schafer]

Love you.

[Doug]

We'll see you in the forum.

[Caller]

You're killing it.

[Sal DiStefano]

All right. Thank you.

[Adam Schafer]

Got it. Yeah, Great call, Adam. I think, you know, I picked movement because it was away from all the other stuff, you know, and it's kind of movement based, but, but yeah, that's, I mean, you don't always have to have goals. And I think when you, when you stay at this long enough, this, that becomes the, the a hurdle. Like, okay, now I'm at this point, like, do I need to always have goals with fitness? Should I always be.

[Caller]

It's like a nice introduction, I think, you know, in fitness and people really do love tackling these real specific, objective things. But like, if you're doing this for the long term, you also have to really learn how to just enjoy it.

[Adam Schafer]

And just not have goals.

[Caller]

Yeah, just, just, just do things because you want to do it.

[Doug]

It's a very common type a type of personality. Right. So we've talked, Sal's talked a lot about how advanced age was, like his, his demographic. He really trained a lot of, like, I trained a lot of type A CEO, goal setting type of people. And so it's, it's pretty easy for me to identify. I hear a few things and, and it's like, okay, when was the last time you didn't set a goal and you still worked out like you like. And the common things are like, like they got us be signed up for a marathon. They got to have a 30, 60, 90 day challenge. They got to have a PR, they're chasing a bench, but they've always got to have a thing that they're going after in order to do it. And let me tell you, like, hey, it's not a bad place to start. Look how incredibly fit she is by doing that. So it's not a bad thing. But it's like, hey, if we're talking about the next 10 years of our life and you've already accomplished this kind of physique already and you're in a great place.

[Caller]

This is neurotic.

[Doug]

Yeah, this is the next level to that is you have to. Yeah, you have to. Absolutely. Because if not, it'll end up leading.

[Adam Schafer]

You can't always hit goals.

[Doug]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

Forever.

[Doug]

Yeah, that's right.

[Justin Andrews]

Our next caller Is Molly from Kansas.

[Adam Schafer]

Molly, what's happening?

[Doug]

How you doing, Molly?

[Sal DiStefano]

Hello, everybody.

[Gabby]

This is amazing. Thank you so much for having me.

[Adam Schafer]

You got it. How can we help you?

[Gabby]

Yeah, I know you guys. Time is valuable, so I'll go ahead and read my question and get started. My question is about correctional exercises for muscle imbalances. So how many dedicated unilateral exercises and reps per week are recommended? How long should I continue to do unilateral work to try to correct the imbalance? I've been having left hip pain for almost a year. I had a DEXA scan about three months ago that revealed my right leg had one and a half more pounds of muscle than my left. So I've been doing extra reps on my left leg since and did notice my hip pain to be somewhat improved. I likely won't be able to follow up with the DEXA scan within the next year. So how do I know when to stop the extra training on the deficient leg? Additionally, should I be concerned about what caused the imbalance and fear of it returning again after exercises?

[Adam Schafer]

So we.

[Doug]

We have a program to solve this. But before we do, before I let Sal go. Is that a Ronnie Coleman blanket behind you?

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah.

[Doug]

Lightweight. That's.

[Adam Schafer]

Oh, my God. That's what that is.

[Doug]

That's so cool.

[Adam Schafer]

Wow. Lightweight.

[Doug]

Baby, you're awesome. I love it. I love it.

[Adam Schafer]

It.

[Doug]

That's so great.

[Adam Schafer]

So are you. So you're just doing extra work for the left leg, or are you doing, like, dedicated unilateral training?

[Doug]

We've got the program for this.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah.

[Gabby]

So if I do, like, Bulgarian split squats, I'll do an extra set on my left leg. Leg press, extra set, left leg.

[Adam Schafer]

So here. So two, I'll give you two things. One, we have a perfect program for you. We'll send you. It's called map symmetry. Follow it. Done deal. You got the answer right there.

[Doug]

And by the way, you can follow it indefinitely until you get to your next exercise.

[Caller]

Start with the Uyghur side, and, you know. Good.

[Adam Schafer]

Always start with the weaker side. Now here's here. Now here's the general answer. Okay, so there's two ways to approach a weaker side or a side that's less developed. One approach is to do more work for it. The other approach is do the same amount of work for it. Do less work for the other side.

[Doug]

Yes.

[Adam Schafer]

The second option's more effective.

[Doug]

That's way more effective.

[Adam Schafer]

Way more effective. So people don't like that because they're afraid of doing less work. But but you'll get there faster.

[Doug]

And you're not gonna. Trust me. You're not gonna. You're not.

[Adam Schafer]

You won't lose muscle.

[Doug]

You won't lose muscle.

[Adam Schafer]

No, you won't.

[Doug]

What you'll do is the other one will just catch up. It'll catch up faster.

[Adam Schafer]

So if you always did 10 sets for legs, rather than doing 12 sets for your left and 10 sets for your right, you just do 10 sets for your left and do 8 sets for your right. Way faster. You'll balance out way faster, but follow, follow map symmetry. And that's the perfect program for you. And if you do a cycle or two of that, a year, you'll be set. You can run it indefinitely if you want, if you like it, and you'll get great results. But generally, to answer your question, a general way, you know, how long do I need to work on muscle imbalances? The rest of your training, as long as you work out.

[Doug]

Yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

Forever. Forever.

[Caller]

You just pop up.

[Adam Schafer]

That's it.

[Caller]

You just have to address it. So it's.

[Adam Schafer]

It's always a thing. Now, your hip pain could have been caused by the muscle imbalance, or the hip pain could cause the muscle imbalance, and then they both feed into each other. Really doesn't matter, because the. The way to fix it is I think unilateral training will do a good job of fixing it. If you want to get more specific with correctional exercise, that would be like Maps prime pro, what we're really looking at.

[Gabby]

Okay, I'm going to start that as well.

[Adam Schafer]

Perfect. You have symmetry and Prime Pro, you're done. You're done dealing.

[Doug]

I do want to add a little more detail to the advice, just because this. Sometimes people misunderstand it or don't follow it as well. So when you do the map symmetry, the less dominant side, so your weaker side, you're always starting with that. And what I want is perfect form. And the minute you feel the form is starting to go off, that's where you shut it down. So let's say it's the. The. The exercise is Bulgarian split squats. Let's say it calls for eight reps. You start with the weaker side, and you notice that around rep 6, it's. You're starting to want to cheat the rep a little bit. You could still get to eight. You know, you could squeeze out two more, but you already notice the form is not perfect. You're only doing six. Then the dominant side that. You could probably do 15 of those. You only do six.

[Adam Schafer]

That's it.

[Doug]

Mirror it. Okay, let. And you are not going to lose muscle, I promise.

[Adam Schafer]

No, you'll build muscle.

[Doug]

You are, you're going to build. This is the way you catch it up is just like that. Trust the process. It actually won't take as long as you think. If you probably threw a round of symmetry, you'll notice a huge difference with the calorie surplus.

[Adam Schafer]

Round of symmetry, you'll gain that. You'll probably gain that muscle, that one and a half pounds of muscle on that side.

[Doug]

Yes.

[Adam Schafer]

That's different.

[Caller]

Those impactful. If you go through Prime Pro and you kind of find some of those corrective exercises, mobility drills, like, make sure you keep pulling those in front of your workouts so you turn those into like ritualistic kind of primers. So, you know, you, you bring in that stability first. So that way, you know, as you're going through these bilateral type movements, it's. It's going to go ahead and respond a lot better.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah. So Prime Pro is a good way to warm up, essentially.

[Doug]

Great. Yeah.

[Gabby]

I'm glad I got that. I was, I was worried about kind of my deficiencies in that aspect, and so I'm looking forward to diving deep into it. I just bought it like a few days ago, so.

[Adam Schafer]

Awesome. And we'll send you symmetry. Now, part of your question. Do you mind if I get into detail as to why you're not doing the Dex sex? I noticed you say why. Okay. So you said you're going to be trying to get pregnant soon.

[Gabby]

Yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

Okay. So is this your first?

[Gabby]

Yes.

[Adam Schafer]

Okay. Congratulations. Thank you. Are you putting yourself in a calorie surplus?

[Gabby]

Not yet. I'm trying to do research on all that and what supplements are good and bad, but I haven't decided on a surplus yet.

[Adam Schafer]

That surplus will make it happen.

[Doug]

Yep.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah. Okay. You got to go. If you go into surplus, if you're trying to get pregnant, put yourself in a little surplus and it would dramatically. Especially someone. I can tell you're lean. I can see your delts. You're fit. You work out a lot. The surplus makes a. I've trained so many female athletes, you know, women who are fit. Like, putting them in a surplus was like magic.

[Doug]

You. You have to. Not only that, you might actually be told to put on a little bit of body fat. That's what happened to Katrina.

[Sal DiStefano]

Yeah.

[Doug]

Katrina was like, I don't even feel like I'm that lean. And the doctor was like, like, yeah, you need. We need you to go up another percent or two in body.

[Adam Schafer]

Your body needs to feel Safe. Yeah.

[Doug]

And so in that case, trying to get pregnant, it'll only benefit you. So you should be in a surplus no matter what. And even if you see a little bit of body fat on, this is the time. Don't worry about it right now. Don't worry about it. We can get that, right.

[Adam Schafer]

What's your body fat percentage at right now?

[Gabby]

15.4.

[Adam Schafer]

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Doug]

You're gonna have to.

[Adam Schafer]

You got to get up to close to 20.

[Doug]

You're gonna have to be.

[Adam Schafer]

Have fun getting a surplus. Have fun.

[Doug]

Hey, it's a great. You know what, though? It's a cool time to do that. You're already want. You're going to need to move that way no matter what. Doctor will force you. If you don't listen to us, they're going to force you to anyways, so they're going to make. So why not enjoy the process? Like, hey, let's add some calories now, and let's balance this body out. Let's get strong.

[Adam Schafer]

You'll have a better. So here's what will happen. You'll have a better. Even if you got pregnant at 15%, by getting. Letting your body fat go up, eating more calories, getting that surplus, you're. You'll probably have a healthier baby. You'll have an easier pregnancy, easier delivery. Your hormones will bounce back faster. So it's like. It's. Yeah. And it's. So I. I'd say go in the surplus. Go ahead and let yourself gain some body fat. It'll make it happen faster, and the whole process will happen better.

[Gabby]

Okay. I'll listen to you guys. That's tough.

[Sal DiStefano]

But I'll.

[Doug]

I'll take the advice.

[Adam Schafer]

You think that stuff. Just wait till you get pregnant.

[Gabby]

I know.

[Adam Schafer]

It gets way harder. It gets way harder.

[Doug]

You're gonna.

[Gabby]

Challenges are ahead.

[Doug]

You're gonna be good. You're gonna be good. Yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

You'll be great.

[Doug]

You can always reach out. So reach out to us if you have any questions along the way.

[Gabby]

Okay. Thank you guys so much. I appreciate it.

[Adam Schafer]

Thanks, Molly.

[Gabby]

Have a great day.

[Adam Schafer]

You got it. Yeah. The. The lightweight baby. Yeah, I know. That was great. I see. When she saw. When she. I saw her question, she said she's not getting DEXA scan. She didn't say why. I'm like, let's talk about this for a second. So I want to make sure.

[Doug]

I'm glad you brought that up because. And then we figured out she's only 15. Body fat, 100. They will tell her she needs to put on at least, least two to three times.

[Adam Schafer]

I can literally name right now at least eight people I trained. Women who were either athletes or fitness enthusiasts who were struggling to get pregnant. Put them in a surplus 30 days later, 45, boom. Pregnant every single time.

[Doug]

That was Katrina. And Katrina did not feel. Katrina was not as.

[Adam Schafer]

She was extreme, but she's just too lean.

[Doug]

Yeah, that's it. That's just it. You don't even have to be that lean. You're lean in a place where it does not want to support having another kid. And so they're going to tell you to go up body fat percentage.

[Adam Schafer]

Totally. Look, if you like the show, come find us on Instagram. Justin is at mindpumpjustin. I'm Mind Pump distefano and Adam's Mind Pump.

[Justin Andrews]

Adam, thank you for listening to Mind Pump. If your goal is to build and shape your body, dramatically improve your health and energy, and maximize your overall performance, check out our discounted RGB super [e-mail] the RGB Super Bundle includes Maps, Anabolic Maps, Performance and Maps Aesthetic. Nine months of phased expert exercise programming designed by Sal, Adam and Justin to systematically transform the way your body looks, feels and performs with detailed workout blueprints and over 200 videos. The RGB Super Bundle is like having Sal, Adam and Justin as your own personal trainers, but at a fraction of the price. The RGB Super Bundle has a full 30 day money back guarantee and you can get it now. Plus other valuable free [e-mail] if you enjoy this show, please share the love by leaving us a five star rating and review on itunes and by introducing Mind Pump to your friends and family. We thank you for your support and until next time, this is Mind Pump.