2591: The Best Bodybuilding Exercises for Every Body Part & More (Listener Live Coaching)

Summary

Episode Summary: Mind Pump Podcast #2591 - The Best Bodybuilding Exercises for Every Body Part & More (Listener Live Coaching)

Release Date: May 7, 2025

In this engaging episode of Mind Pump: Raw Fitness Truth, hosts Sal Di Stefano, Adam Schafer, Justin Andrews, and Doug Egge delve deep into the optimal bodybuilding exercises tailored for each major muscle group. The episode seamlessly transitions from expert discussions to live coaching sessions, providing listeners with actionable insights and personalized advice.

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1. Optimal Bodybuilding Exercises for Each Muscle Group

Quads: Front Squats vs. Back Squats Adam Schafer initiates the conversation by advocating for front squats over back squats for quad development. He emphasizes that while back squats are superior overall, front squats isolate the quads more effectively, especially when considering bodybuilding aesthetics.

"Front squats, barbell front squats are just a great quad exercise, better than even a back squat." – Adam Schafer [02:35]

Justin Andrews concurs, highlighting the accessibility of front squats for most lifters who may not have access to machines like hack squats.

Hamstrings: Romanian Deadlifts vs. Leg Curls The discussion shifts to hamstring development, with Adam recommending Romanian deadlifts over leg curls. He argues that Romanian deadlifts engage the entire hamstring structure, offering more comprehensive muscle activation.

"Romanian deadlift is more accurately called... it's the best hamstring development exercise you could possibly do." – Adam Schafer [05:27]

Justin adds that while leg curls target the biceps femoris, Romanian deadlifts provide a fuller range of motion, enhancing overall hamstring growth.

Glutes: Hip Thrusts For glute development, the hosts unanimously support hip thrusts as the most isolating and effective exercise. They note that hip thrusts are particularly beneficial for individuals struggling to engage their glutes through compound movements like squats and deadlifts.

"Hip thrusts build a butt in people who have trouble feeling their butt or connecting to their butt when they do things like squats and deadlifts." – Adam Schafer [06:24]

Back: Deadlifts and Pull-Ups Contrary to some bodybuilding opinions, Adam staunchly defends deadlifts as a fundamental back exercise, citing its ability to develop a thick, strong-looking back through substantial loading and tension.

"I've never seen more back development... than when they've gotten really strong at the deadlift." – Adam Schafer [07:53]

Additionally, pull-ups are recommended for targeting the latissimus dorsi, complementing deadlifts by isolating the lats more directly.

Chest: Incline Barbell Press Moving to the chest, Adam recommends the incline barbell press over the traditional bench press to ensure balanced development of the upper chest, preventing overemphasis on the lower pectorals.

"Incline barbell press... it's superior if you neglect it... get strong at your incline bench, see what happens." – Adam Schafer [10:17]

Shoulders: Arnold Press For shoulder aesthetics, the Arnold press is favored for its full range of motion, which enhances deltoid development more effectively than standard shoulder presses.

"An Arnold press is the fullest range of motion that I think you can do with a shoulder press." – Adam Schafer [10:54]

Biceps: Alternating Supinating Dumbbell Curls When discussing bicep training, alternating supinating dumbbell curls are highlighted for their ability to engage the brachialis and brachioradialis, ensuring comprehensive bicep development.

"Because of the supinating action, you're going to get some brachialis, brachioradialis." – Adam Schafer [12:16]

Triceps: Triceps Dips For the triceps, parallel bar dips are recommended due to their full range of motion and effectiveness in building robust triceps.

"Triceps dips... great full range of motion tricep exercise." – Adam Schafer [13:17]

Calves: Standing Calf Raises Lastly, for calf development, standing calf raises are endorsed for their ability to target both the gastrocnemius and soleus muscles, providing balanced calf growth.

"Standing calf raises... I'm getting everything. The gastrocs and the soleus." – Adam Schafer [13:33]

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2. Muscle Memory and Long-Term Training Benefits

The hosts explore the concept of muscle memory, emphasizing its significant role in long-term strength and muscle retention. Justin Andrews shares his personal experience of maintaining muscle definition even after a hiatus from training, attributing it to muscle memory and efficient training practices.

"I've built it... I have more chest muscles than I did at 26 peak training... It's crazy." – Justin Andrews [20:24]

Adam complements this by discussing a study where previously trained individuals regained strength more rapidly after a training break compared to new trainees, underscoring the profound impact of muscle memory.

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3. Highlighted Fitness Studies

Sauna Use and VO₂ Max Improvement Adam introduces a compelling study demonstrating that 15 minutes of sauna use post-exercise, three times a week, can significantly enhance VO₂ max by approximately 2%.

"15 minutes of the sauna after exercise three days a week... led to a two-time improvement in VO2 max." – Adam Schafer [30:30]

Creatine Safety Addressing supplement safety, Adam reviews a comprehensive study indicating that creatine supplementation is safe, with side effects comparable to placebos. He advises that gastrointestinal discomfort can be mitigated by spreading doses throughout the day.

"The side effects from creatine match the placebo. In other words, it's a super safe supplement." – Adam Schafer [49:30]

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4. Live Coaching Sessions

Caller 1: Josh from New York – Recovery and Sleep Issues

Josh seeks advice on persistent injuries and prolonged recovery times despite diligent training efforts. The hosts diagnose his challenges primarily as poor sleep quality and overtraining, exacerbated by his active lifestyle as a marine and volunteer firefighter.

Key Recommendations:

• Prioritize Sleep: Addressing sleep quality is paramount, as poor sleep significantly increases injury risk.

  "Nothing training wise is benefiting you in that regard, unless you get your sleep fixed." – Adam Schafer [56:34]

• Consult a Sleep Expert: Professional guidance can help identify underlying sleep disorders such as apnea.

• Scale Back Training: Focus on mobility and gentle strength training until sleep improves.

"Focus on sleep, change your life. Your whole life is going to change." – Adam Schafer [62:13]

Caller 2: Valerie from Arizona – Calisthenics and Mobility Goals

Valerie aims to develop calisthenics skills like levers, handstands, and pistol squats but struggles with overall weakness and limited mobility, particularly in her ankles.

Key Recommendations:

• Focus on Mobility: Incorporate daily passive stretches and targeted mobility exercises to improve ankle flexibility.

  "Practice it all day... you'll gain flexibility very quickly." – Adam Schafer [74:38]

• Skill Progressions: Engage in regressed versions of desired calisthenics movements, gradually increasing difficulty.

• Consistency and Patience: Acknowledge that achieving advanced skills requires time, especially considering her athletic background in volleyball.

"Keep that in mind... to gain that newfound range of motion." – Justin Andrews [73:27]

Caller 3: Phil from Colorado – Appetite Issues Post-Addiction Recovery

Phil, six months sober, faces challenges with low appetite and struggles to increase his calorie intake despite consuming whole foods and protein supplements. He also inquires about the efficacy of IV therapy for addressing vitamin deficiencies.

Key Recommendations:

• Supplementation: Introduce a high-protein shake (e.g., 40 grams) to help boost calorie and protein intake without overwhelming the digestive system.

  "Add a shake... and let your body slowly improve its appetite." – Adam Schafer [94:35]

• Nutrition Assessment: Consider getting nutrient testing to identify specific deficiencies before opting for IV therapy.

  "Get a nutrient test to see what you're deficient in." – Adam Schafer [97:03]

• Social Support: Engage with support groups and consider joining programs that foster community and accountability.

"Meet regularly with like-minded individuals to enhance your recovery journey." – Adam Schafer [100:08]

• Consult Healthcare Professionals: Reiterate the importance of working with a sleep expert and healthcare providers to address underlying issues affecting appetite.

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5. Concluding Insights

The episode emphasizes the importance of comprehensive training strategies, proper exercise selection for muscle aesthetics, and the critical role of recovery elements like sleep and nutrition in achieving fitness goals. Through live coaching, the hosts demonstrate their commitment to providing personalized advice, reinforcing Mind Pump's mission to dispel fitness myths and promote evidence-based practices.

Listeners are encouraged to:

• Select exercises that align with their specific body part development goals.
• Understand and leverage muscle memory for long-term strength retention.
• Incorporate recovery strategies, particularly prioritizing sleep, to prevent injuries and enhance performance.
• Seek professional guidance for personalized health and fitness challenges.

By blending expert discussions with real-life coaching scenarios, this episode offers a holistic approach to bodybuilding and overall fitness, making it a valuable resource for both novice and seasoned fitness enthusiasts.

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Notable Quotes:

• "Every exercise is a low back exercise." – Adam Schafer [14:31]
• "Our bodies are so resilient... they do a great job of figuring out how to survive." – Justin Andrews [46:53]
• "Vitamin D absorbs perfectly fine in capsule form." – Adam Schafer [98:58]
• "You're not recovering if you're not sleeping." – Doug Egge [61:30]

For more insights and expert-led fitness programming, visit mindpumppodcast.com and follow the hosts on Instagram @mindpumpmedia, @mindpumpsal, @mindpumpadam, @mindpumpjustin, & @mindpumpdoug.

Transcript

[Sal DiStefano]

If you want to pump your body.

[Adam Schafer]

And expand your mind, there's only one place to go. Mind Pump. Mind Pump.

[Justin Andrews]

With your hosts, Sal Destefano, Adam Schafer.

[Adam Schafer]

And Justin Andrews, you just found the most downloaded fitness, health and entertainment podcast. This is Mind Pump. Today's episode. Live callers called in and we got to coach them on air. But this was after the intro. Today's intro was 52 minutes long. In the intro we talk about fitness, science, fat loss, muscle building, current events, family stuff. It's a good time if you have a question that you want to ask us on air. If you want to be on an episode like this one, email [e-mail] now this episode is brought to you by some sponsors. The first one is Organifi. Today we talked about their brand new Colostrum supplement. This is great for gut health in particular. I love this for gut health. Go check them out. Get 20% off. Go to Organifi.com that's O R G a n I f I use the code mindpump. Get 20% off. This episode is also brought to you by Caldera Lab. They make great skincare products that are natural, that balance out the microbiome of the face. They reduce wrinkles and fine lines. Doug loves their eye serum. We talked about that today. We also talked about their sunscreen. It's all natural. Go check them out. Get 20% off. Go to calderalab.com that's C-A-L-E R-A L A B.com. use the code MINDPUMP20. Get 20% off. We also have a sale this month on some workout programs, Maps 15 performance and the RGB bundle. 50% off. If you are interested, go to maps fitnessproducts.com but don't forget to use the code MAY50 for the discount. All right, here comes the show T shirt time.

[Sal DiStefano]

And it's T shirt time.

[Adam Schafer]

Oh, shit.

[Doug]

Doug. He knows my favorite time of the week.

[Sal DiStefano]

We got five winners this week. Two for Apple Podcasts, three for Facebook. The Apple Podcast winners are Flora 17 and Angela WMTB climb. And for Facebook, we have Tyler Davenport, Holly Lee and Amber Yamada Martinez. All five of you are winners. Send a name I just read to itunesindpumpmedia.com include your shirt size and your shipping address. We'll get that shirt right out to you.

[Adam Schafer]

When it comes to aesthetics, the way you look or bodybuilding, what are the best strength training exercises for every body part. That's what we're going to Talk about today, the best exercises for how you look when you're strength training. Let's do this.

[Doug]

We're going to narrow it to one exercise for that body part.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah, well, try to.

[Doug]

Well, at least you have a case for it, I think.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah, I think it'll create good discussion. Right, because some of these movements, but aren't even in our. What we would consider our top five. Right. We have our. If you've listened to the podcast long enough, you've heard us talk about the big five movements and we talk about why, if the average person could just do that, have a great physique. But beyond that, when you are trying to isolate a muscle group or develop a body part, I do think there's a hierarchy of, of exercise. I think that what we talk about, the big five, I think lays the. Lays the foundation for everybody, bodybuilding or not. Like, you get good and strong at the big five, it gives you the.

[Adam Schafer]

Biggest performance, bodybuilding function, everything.

[Justin Andrews]

Right. You get good those five. And that, that covers basically everybody, especially for the first couple years now. Beyond that, it's like, okay, now I'm really trying to sculpt my body. What other movements?

[Adam Schafer]

And I did want to make the context of, like, aesthetics and bodybuilding, because if we were talking about athletic performance, overall strength, they could change. Right. All right, but this is like pure psychologist.

[Doug]

I just have to know context.

[Justin Andrews]

I'll sit this one out.

[Doug]

I just got no context. So I'm not like, just shooting out a bunch of.

[Justin Andrews]

He's so mad. There's no rotational stuff.

[Adam Schafer]

Actually, I did put a couple.

[Justin Andrews]

Oh, did you put some rotational stuff?

[Adam Schafer]

I did, I did a little bit. All right, so let's start with quads. So quads. Now we're going to break up the body, the, the, the whole body into body parts. Right. So just like a bodybuilder would do. So when it comes to quads, right. The muscles on the front of the thighs, I put front squats, I think front squats, barbell, front squats are just a great quad exercise, better than even a back squat. Now, a back squat overall is one of the best exercises, but again, we're talking bodybuilding. And I'm also thinking in combination with the rest of the exercises that we're going to be talking about.

[Justin Andrews]

And are we trying to stay. Because the bodybuilding community might push back and argue with you. A hack squat.

[Adam Schafer]

Sure.

[Justin Andrews]

Because you could load it more.

[Adam Schafer]

Sure.

[Justin Andrews]

You know, but.

[Adam Schafer]

Sure.

[Justin Andrews]

But I think most everything you had here, you did your best. When I looked at the exercises you chose to be as functional and free weight as possible.

[Adam Schafer]

Accessible.

[Justin Andrews]

Yes.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah. Because somebody, you know, listening is, oh, hack squat. I don't have a hack squat, but I have a barbell.

[Justin Andrews]

Right.

[Adam Schafer]

So I could do a front squat.

[Justin Andrews]

Okay, that's. So I like setting the table with that because each one of these could be debated and argued. Oh, this is better for this, for these reasons. But you did pick a bunch of exercises that you. If you have a set of barbell, a barbell and dumbbells, you can do them all. You can do them all.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah, yeah. So the. And I know you like the front squats at least.

[Doug]

Yeah. And they're going to do the genie version of it, which is fine.

[Adam Schafer]

Cross arm version.

[Doug]

Yeah, I'll allow that.

[Justin Andrews]

That's not true. I used to front squat like you're supposed to.

[Adam Schafer]

Did you do this? Yeah, I didn't.

[Doug]

Good wrist mobility. Look at you, bro.

[Adam Schafer]

My biceps too big.

[Justin Andrews]

Dig up the picture of me doing that with 315.

[Doug]

Adam actually used to be an athlete, so that's.

[Adam Schafer]

Oh, that's all right. I said nothing mean to you, but now just wait. All right, next is hamstrings. Stiff legged deadlift or Romanian deadlift, I think is more accurately called. It's the. It's the best hamstring development exercise you could possibly do. It works the entire hamstring structure. I know a lot of people like leg curls, but really that is mostly the leg bicep. And you're not getting the other.

[Justin Andrews]

You can't load that anywhere near. I don't even think that's close. The only thing I could make an argument for, you know, either close second or replace arguably, is a good morning.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah, yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

Because you could load more. Right, right. Because the limiting factor now becomes with the stiff legged deadlift, you gotta hold on to that.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah.

[Doug]

Way more risky, I guess you would say.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah. The form on a good morning is harder for people to get, even though they're almost identical in terms of the motion.

[Justin Andrews]

So.

[Adam Schafer]

All right, glutes for the glutes. Hip thrust. Now. You know, barbell squats build the butt. Deadlifts build the butt. But hip thrusts build a butt.

[Justin Andrews]

Targeted.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah. And they build a butt in people who have trouble feeling their butt or connecting to their butt when they do things like squats and deadlifts. This is why so many people like hip thrusts. The people who have trouble developing their glutes tend to find success with the hip thrust because it's hard not to feel your glutes. It's hard not to get the glutes to be active in a barbell hip thrust. So it's a great butt exercise.

[Justin Andrews]

No debate here.

[Doug]

I think the most isolating type of exercise for the glutes.

[Justin Andrews]

A hundred percent. 100%. Again, this is why when I saw the way you listed these exercises, I thought it's important to explain to people that we were talking beyond the big five, because the big five is going to get you a long ways with all these body parts. But now we're targeting specific things I've already, I'm taking into consideration, you know, the big five. Here's the next level to that hip thrust for sure. Here.

[Adam Schafer]

Now here's where we might get some debate with the back. I had. I put two exercises. Now, I know a lot of bodybuilders or the bodybuilder types wouldn't even put a deadlift in there as a back exercise. Strength athletes, of course. Athletes in general, of course. But sometimes you'll hear bodybuilders, many times you'll hear them talk about the deadlift as not being really a good back exercise. I really got to disagree. I've never seen more back development in myself, in clients and the people around me than when they've gotten really strong at the deadlift. I think it has to do with how much you can load it with the tension it creates. It just develops a really thick, strong looking back. So I put deadlifts in there.

[Doug]

Yeah, that's true. The only pushback you'd probably get is from bodybuilders.

[Adam Schafer]

Yes.

[Doug]

Right. Yeah. Because we all know how much it builds and develops. You're back in your posterior chain in general. But to ice, it must be more from isolating.

[Justin Andrews]

It's, it's the hypertrophy biomechanic dorks that always want to debate this. And again, I just, I challenge anybody who has never tried to deadlift to build your back to go do that and see what happens. I mean, I obviously you've heard me argue this on the podcast was one of the biggest changes in my back development was getting into deadlifting, was doing that.

[Adam Schafer]

And this was already after you.

[Justin Andrews]

After I'd already been trained 10 years and built a decent physique. I had a decent physique.

[Adam Schafer]

You were a pro at that point.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah. So I, I would, I'd already built a good physique without ever really deadlifting, but deadlifting just exploded my back. And I think the reason why, you have to, why it's important to understand because that's how someone will look through the lens of mechanically, what's going on? And you're like, oh, there's exercises that take the back through fuller range of motion, like a pull up or a row. Like, how could you.

[Doug]

This is the isometric exercise.

[Justin Andrews]

But watch, if you take somebody, start at whatever number. Let's say you can only deadlift 200 pounds your first time deadlifting. And you're pretty strong because you've been lifting weights for a long time too. You take that deadlift and you get it up to 3, 4, 500 pounds and watch what it does to every. All those other movements that you argue is the better movement. So, so make the argument that a barbell row is one of the best things back.

[Adam Schafer]

Okay.

[Justin Andrews]

It's one of the best ones for sure. I will challenge you that if you double your strength and deadlift, you will barbell row more than you've ever barbell rode in your life. Same thing with, with the lat pull down or a pull up or any other back exercise. If you get strong at deadlifting, you will build a back bigger than you've ever built before.

[Adam Schafer]

Now, I did include another back exercise that's more of a direct lat exercise just because the back is so complex. And I put a pull up and I think for the lats, just the, just the, the latissimus dorsi muscles, a pull up, pull down, pull up. I think that's one of the best exercises you could do. And the reason why a barbell row isn't here is because the deadlift is here. If I took out the deadlift and the barbell row would have to be in there.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah, yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

So, all right, next, chest incline barbell press. For aesthetics and bodybuilding. I think this would develop a. The esthetic looking chest that you're looking for. A bench press is a great chest exercise. But the. You always run the risk of having an overdeveloped lower chest versus upper chest.

[Doug]

Because of the upper development.

[Adam Schafer]

That's right. That's right.

[Doug]

That's focused on that.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah, no debate here. Again with me. I. You add in everything, the points that you're making in addition to. I just find that it's one of the more neglected movements. And it's a shame that it's neglected because I think it's superior already and it's definitely superior if you neglect it. If you've been bench pressing like a lot of young men have been doing for a long time, where they love to do flat and decline because they're stronger doing that and you avoid or you do less of the incline bench. Get strong at your incline bench, see what happens.

[Adam Schafer]

Totally. And then for shoulders, here you go, Justin, a little rotation in the hand here. Arnold press. Now the reason why I put an Arnold press over a, you know, shoulder press or dumbbell shoulder press is. An Arnold press is the fullest range of motion that I think you can do with a, with a shoulder press. It really brings the dumbbell all the way down, elbow all the way down your.

[Doug]

It's full range of motion.

[Adam Schafer]

It's a very full range of motion and I think it develops really nice looking delts as a result. So if I had to pick one, it would have to be the other.

[Doug]

That's interesting. Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

Are you using much of this in your pursuit right now of getting your shoulder press to 315? I didn't even ask.

[Doug]

I did in the beginning, I did a lot of rotational pressing and two even like bottoms up pressing. So I was, I was trying to stress more instability and I say bolster the support system. Yeah, bolster the support system for that. And two to express rotation for.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah.

[Doug]

Reinforcement was, was a high priority for me. But yeah, where I'm at now is really just the technical side of it.

[Justin Andrews]

So.

[Adam Schafer]

Good. And then next up, biceps. I again, you had to pick one exercise. There's a lot of good bicep exercises, but I picked alternating supinating dumbbell curls. Because of the supinating action, you're going to get some brachialis brachioradialis. The bicep also supinates. And then of course at the top it's like a full curl. It's just a full bicep exercise in comparison to the other ones.

[Justin Andrews]

If I were to debate, you would be a supinated pull up.

[Adam Schafer]

Oh, supinate grip pull up. Yeah. And then you're really.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

You know why I didn't pick that just difficulty hard.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah, it's a hard. It's mean. I mean, that's your only argument, in my opinion, is that because if, if I'm. You're. If you're. If we're making the case that we're trying to help the general population.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

And I'm not there to coach this person. Maybe they, they don't do a supinated pull up correctly without engaging their lats more. But if you understand how to do it and. Or I'm talking to somebody who's more an advanced lifter, I'm gonna make the case that the supinated pull up is even better.

[Doug]

Now the alternating part is this Just to have it in its length and tension position.

[Adam Schafer]

Just. Honestly, it doesn't make a big difference. It's just how I've always done them. But I don't think it makes that big of a difference. Maybe so the person can focus more, but not a big difference. Next up, triceps dips. Yeah, Parallel bar dips. Great full range of motion. Tricep exercise allows the elbow to move back and forward as you press. I've rarely ever met anybody who's really strong at these. Doesn't have great triceps.

[Doug]

Oh, yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

It's just a. It's a classic exercise.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah. No. The only honorable mention here is the close grip bench press. But I. I wouldn't debate you guys on. On dips. On this especially. You loaded right? You.

[Adam Schafer]

That's right.

[Justin Andrews]

Not just body weight, but getting to the place where you load these and do these in the full stretch position is just incredible.

[Adam Schafer]

And then calves, standing raises, calf raises. Calves are kind of boring. But this, we're doing every body part standing Next. Standing calf raises is a good. You're getting everything. The gastrocs, you're getting the soleus. I know seated hits the soleus part. It's like this flat muscle that. That's underneath the bigger meteor part of the calf. So, you know, most people do standing calf plus seated, but. But if you have to pick one, then I would just do standing. So that's the one. And then Doug put abs up there. Totally forgot about the core. Doug. Thank you very much. Forgot about core. If I had to pick one. This is good. So we could discuss this a little bit. Declines, I think decline sit ups. Yeah, yeah, Decline sit ups with a nice full crunch all the way up. Yeah, that's a good core strengthening kind of every exercise. A lot of people don't do that. Right, though. They pull the hip flexors and they come up with this real straight back.

[Doug]

That's true.

[Adam Schafer]

You need to roll yourself.

[Justin Andrews]

I mean, we have to assume everybody's doing these movements. Right. That's what I consider. Right. That's kind of irrelevant because it's like if you're not doing any of these exercises, if you're doing these exercises wrong, then they automatically don't become the best.

[Adam Schafer]

What's the saying? Every exercise is a low back exercise. If you.

[Doug]

So much truth.

[Adam Schafer]

So true. I saw. In fact, I saw Doug doing the decline sit ups this morning. Right. Weren't you doing those?

[Sal DiStefano]

It was yesterday.

[Adam Schafer]

Was that yesterday? Yeah. Do you sore. You feel those?

[Sal DiStefano]

Yeah, I do feel those.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah. They're gnarly man. You know, I was gonna. I need to say something to you, Justin. You do this. You've been back battling with gut health back and forth. We've talked about colostrum a couple times. For gut health there are like an immune. Immune boosting as well, but for gut health in particular, colostrum has some pretty interesting data supporting it. Now I can't do colostrum because it's from dairy. So otherwise I would done. I would have done it by now. But for someone like you, I would.

[Justin Andrews]

Say now was he.

[Doug]

What are the benefits? Like what repairs the gut, helps with.

[Adam Schafer]

The mucosal lining, reduced inflammation. It's actually a gut health protein, a good health.

[Justin Andrews]

Does it help someone like him still, even if he's drinking whole milk?

[Adam Schafer]

Yes.

[Justin Andrews]

Oh, it does?

[Adam Schafer]

Yes.

[Justin Andrews]

Okay.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah. Colostrum's got some immunoglobulins in there because.

[Justin Andrews]

It'S derived from that.

[Adam Schafer]

No, no.

[Justin Andrews]

Oh, it's not.

[Adam Schafer]

Colostrum is the milk that comes out when a mother first half sir calf after a certain period of time.

[Doug]

Yeah, that's right.

[Justin Andrews]

Oh, so it's not derived from that. So no. Oh, okay. So even if he's drinking milk all the time, he still would get benefit from it.

[Adam Schafer]

That's right.

[Justin Andrews]

Oh, interesting.

[Adam Schafer]

So organifi has considered that they have their first colostrum supplement. So they actually sell it now. So you have. I put it here for you.

[Doug]

Okay.

[Adam Schafer]

And you can give it a shot and see does pull up colostrum for gut health. I'd love to dive into the. To the. Some of the data on.

[Justin Andrews]

Is it flavored or is it.

[Adam Schafer]

No, this is unflavored.

[Justin Andrews]

Unflavored.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah. So it's not going to taste. It won't taste bad at all. It's going to taste like dairy, you know? Yeah, Colostrum, like, like, you know, our wives and they had the kids the first milk that they produced.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

It's called colostrum and it's got growth factors in there and immune boosters. It's different than traditional. Than the traditional breast milk.

[Doug]

Interesting.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah. Isn't that cool?

[Justin Andrews]

I thought I had kind of a bad rap. No.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah, There you go. Strengthens the gut wall, reduces intestinal permeability and supports the gut microbiome. So when people ask me about for like building muscle and this, that fat loss, it's like gut health. That's where the data. In fact, they use it when they. For people who will get diarrhea often. It's like one of the first line things that they'll give.

[Justin Andrews]

Oh, interesting. I mean, it makes sense. I mean, obviously, I know that it's been promoted that way for building muscle too, but, and, but that's a byproduct of having a healthy gut. Yeah, you talk about this all the time where it's like, oh, if my, my gut is off.

[Adam Schafer]

Oh, such a huge difference.

[Justin Andrews]

A huge difference.

[Doug]

So they're fine with, like, probiotics, right? Like, it's, there's performance benefits.

[Adam Schafer]

That's different. The probiotic one's really weird, dude, because they take healthy people, they give it to them, and they get better endurance and strength.

[Doug]

So it's not just related to even.

[Justin Andrews]

I didn't know that. Even on healthy guts, they give it.

[Adam Schafer]

To people without gut issues. They do it with athletes. Everybody's fine. Here you go. Half you guys get this, half you guys get a placebo. And the probiotic group improves their endurance and strength faster. Yeah, it's gotta, it has to do with, I'm sure it has to do with the central nervous system because of the way the microbiome, like, like your neurotransmitters, much of them are crazy. Created by your microbiome, and it's so, it's such a complicated interplay between your body and your, and your microbiome. So I don't know. I'm guessing. But, but there's many studies, not just one. There are now many, many, many studies. I mean, we're literally, we're years away from probiotics being advertised as performance enhancing supplements. Not for gut health, not for skin health, not for. It'll be like, you, you want to get, you know, jacked.

[Justin Andrews]

Jacked and fast. Take his probiotics, take yogurt, you know, or whatever.

[Doug]

And we're pretty much controlled by our bacterial cells. Right. Like, they pretty much influence us more.

[Adam Schafer]

Than anything else a little bit.

[Doug]

I mean, that's what it feels like.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah, they do a little bit. Hey, I, I, I got a study on muscle memory. That's kind of cool. Adam. Yeah, yeah, they actually, it's actually, I.

[Justin Andrews]

I'm fascinated with this in particular is, you know, we think about all the things that we're, we're always all geeking out on. And I, not to bore the audience because I know I've brought it up so many times, but I, I've tripped out a lot. The last, I don't know, say five years or so on just how easy it's been. And I don't say that at all, by the way, to. It comes off or probably sounds A bit arrogant to the audience and I don't mean it that way. What I want to do is inspire people that are, you know, debating getting on the building muscle train and doing it consistently and hard for a while.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

But I really feel like one of the side effects of that three year run I had of kind of becoming a muscle meathead for a while that I had no idea. Like I didn't go into it all going, oh, this will also be a nice plus because I know all the research around muscle memory. I didn't think like that at all. But what I'm finding from that, I've lost a lot, but I've also kept a lot and I also find very like I so funny you're bringing this up. I'm like, I haven't done for like the last month. I've been moving.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

But I've been doing physical stuff. That's part of why I haven't trained. I've been like, just my diet, diets in check. I'm not overeating, but I'm lifting boxes and hammering stuff. I mean I've been just like, it's like moving and doing stuff and so I've been getting my ass kicked.

[Adam Schafer]

And you have more muscle than what it probably you couldn't get at 20, so lifting.

[Justin Andrews]

And so Katrina made a comment, she's like, did you train today? I had just taken my shirt off to get in the pool with her and I'm like, no. I said I haven't trained a couple weeks hun. She's like, you look like you have. And I hadn't looked and I kind of looked at my and I looked and I'd like was like, dude, my shoulders look like I got a workout the last couple days. I'm like, it's so weird to me. And your point? I look better at 40 something years old, not trained. You know, just being active. And what I mean by better, like my shoulders are more defined, my. I have more chest muscles than I did at 26 peak training my ass off to get there. It's crazy.

[Adam Schafer]

I'll never forget like one long time when I had my studio years ago. I'll never forget this little guy walks in and he was, I want to say it was late 60s, early 70s, might have been in his early 70s. And he comes in and he's kind of this shorter dude, maybe 5, 3 and he had these little like muscular forearms, like these little ball forearms. And he walks in and I'm training a client, he's looking around and I Think he was waiting to have breakfast next door. My studio was next to a breakfast place. And he looks down at the kettlebells and he goes, oh. And he looks at me and with a Russian accent, he goes, may I try? So I'm like, okay. And he takes the. I think it was 80 something pound kettlebell, and he swings it and then presses it a couple times and puts it down. And I look, and I'm looking at his forearms, I'm like. And he had a Russian accent and kettlebells were popular in Russia. So I'm like, this dude's. So I told my client, you know, let me go say something. I walked over him like, you, you train a lot, don't you? He goes, no, no, no, I haven't trained ever since I left Soviet Union. I'm like, what? He goes, yeah, I used to compete and this and that. And you see this guy's forearms and like they were just jacked. They were just stuck with him through all those years. But he obviously, if he competed in the Soviet Union, he trained his ass off, probably since he was a boy, all the way through. So it stays with you. And so what happens with this? And when you look at the data on this and I'm gonna bring up. I'll talk about the study in just a second. When you build muscle your body, increase your muscles increase the number of satellite cells that are within them. When the muscles shrink from detraining, the satellite cells don't go away. So it's like this. It's like you're built. You're gonna go build a huge building downtown. And so you're getting ready to build it. So what do you got to do? You gotta buy the crane, you gotta buy the equipment, you gotta hire all the workers. There's a lot of equipment you gotta buy and workers that you need to build the building. Okay.

[Justin Andrews]

And it takes time.

[Adam Schafer]

Then you, then you build the building.

[Justin Andrews]

Right.

[Adam Schafer]

Okay. And then you just, you. The building falls down, it's destroyed. But you never lose the workers, you never lose the equipment. It's all there waiting.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

Waiting for you to one day say, build it again.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

So it's going to happen much faster because you'd have to gather that stuff because it's all ready to go.

[Justin Andrews]

That's a good analogy because that's exactly what it feels like.

[Adam Schafer]

It's like, boom.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah. And. And also it's an adaptation. It's almost like this too. You're asking those workers, a crane, to go build a building they've already built.

[Adam Schafer]

Before.

[Justin Andrews]

So they even know how to do it.

[Adam Schafer]

Exactly what to do.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah, they've already got the blueprint. They already know how to do it.

[Adam Schafer]

That's right.

[Justin Andrews]

So not only is it they get to work way faster. It's like they get it, they get it built in the fraction of the time.

[Adam Schafer]

That's right.

[Justin Andrews]

It took them to build the very first.

[Adam Schafer]

They don't need permits, they don't need. Everything's done to do it again. And they just got to go out and build it again. So all that time that you had to do set up is gone. Yeah, so. So what the study did, it's a pretty cool study and I think that this, this study illustrates it. But I think the effect is even more pronounced the longer you have the muscle. Like you. Right.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

I think if you built muscle and you keep it for 20 years and then you lose some of it, this effect I think is even more pronounced. Yeah, but here's this, this is a randomized controlled trial where they took, they took 42 untrained adults. So they're not trained adults. They were untrained and they took half of them and they had them lift weights for 10 weeks and then take a 10 week break and then start up again. The other group lifted or trained for 20 weeks total. Okay. So they didn't keep. It's not like they had this muscle for years and years and years. Nonetheless, the group that took the 10 week deep, that took the 10 week break, lost lots of strength and lots of muscle. How quick they got them back into strength training? Five weeks. Wow. So what took 10 weeks took five weeks the second time around.

[Justin Andrews]

And you're. And that's all new training, as I say that. And here let me tell you how I think how profound that is because that's already profound. And I, I remember in my 20s having moments in my lifting career where I fell off. And unfortunately back then I would fall off and I'd feel like I looked like I fell off. Like I look like I didn't lift weights at all. Like back when I was in my. That was the thing that was part of the drove the ins security was that like if I wasn't in there getting a pump and build a muscle and eat to be big, if I let that go for a month or time, it felt like I took all these steps back. But now over decades it doesn't feel like that. It's like if it's totally, it's totally different how it feels a lot of permanent muscle.

[Adam Schafer]

I think you built too through maybe through muscle hyperplasia.

[Justin Andrews]

Have to be. Yeah, have to be. I mean, and that's what I meant by the whole shoulder thing. Like, I remember I tell the story all the time of the, the competitive female who. Client. Our trainer of mine who told me I had weak shoulders.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

You know, there's, and that. And they. So they look way better now after peak years of, of building them as a 20 something year old. I just find it really fascinating and I, I don't, I don't mean for it to come off at all as.

[Adam Schafer]

No, I think it's cool. And I think for someone listening. Right.

[Justin Andrews]

I just wish more people talked about it because nobody told me that, like I would, it would have been part of my motivation if someone told me like you, Adam, this is going to be like investing for you. You're young right now, you don't have kids. Bury yourself in this fitness while you. Yes.

[Doug]

Work hard, pay off way, you know, into the future.

[Justin Andrews]

Nobody told me that. You know what everyone's told me on you better do it now because when you get old, it's, it's, it goes away. It's so harder. You probably do.

[Doug]

It's always a hustle.

[Justin Andrews]

Yes. So part of my motivation at, at actually a young age was more like, I'm going to create this momentum. So I'll be working out, training hard till I make 80. So I'm this 80 year old. But no, in fact, actually it's given me way more flexibility. It's easier to stay healthy and maintain. It's wild.

[Adam Schafer]

This just happened to me because I've cut down on my training, which, by the way, remarkably, I'm able to maintain a decent amount of strength and muscle with way less training. I had to take a lot of time off because I injured my back and my hamstring and I literally had two workouts where I kind of felt normal. And yesterday my wife's looking at me and she knows my past and my history and I've already talked about the show. She looks at me, she goes, what are you taking? I'm like, nothing, nothing. She's like, you look. I'm like, I think I just kind of had two workouts. She's like, no way. I'm like, honey, this is like muscle memory. It was really fast. Yeah, it works really, really fast for me. Now I won't be able to get beyond what I did before.

[Justin Andrews]

No, no. And that's, I think that's important. Right. Like, obviously, because some of those, I'm sure there's people that was like, you look like. What are you talking about? Like, I don't look anything. I don't look anything like.

[Doug]

Now that you said that.

[Justin Andrews]

Some bodybuilder. I feel like we give insecure kid who's 27 still. You know what I'm saying?

[Adam Schafer]

There's like two people that comment that all the time on our YouTube.

[Justin Andrews]

I probably slept with her girlfriend a long time ago. So they. I deserve whatever I get probably from that guy.

[Adam Schafer]

Oh, man.

[Justin Andrews]

So I. It's. It's comes from a place I get. I just. I. I wanted to come off that way. I don't want to come off. It's like. It's definitely not me bragging. It's definitely. I'm so surprised by it. And it's such a cool thing, man, that I just don't think enough people talk about or sell because that would have helped motivate me even more as a young guy trying to lift if I actually someone. That's why I like to use the investment.

[Adam Schafer]

I mean, you can sell it. It's a great selling point.

[Justin Andrews]

It is a great selling point.

[Adam Schafer]

Hey, listen, if you hard now when you're older, way easier to keep.

[Justin Andrews]

It's like the money thing like, you don't like a lot of times. And this I. We don't communicate this to the younger generation of two. We're always like flashy and buy all the things. It's like, you know what's so dope is that if you live a life where you live well below your means for decades, while also building and saving and investing and making money, you don't got to live like that forever. You actually can get to a place in your life where you like, get to blow quite a bit of money and still have a lot of money because you have so many things working for you. And it's like, if that's what this is like.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

And I wish someone communicated me that to me as a young kid also about money because I. I unfortunately had to learn the hard way. I worked really hard. I got to that place, I blew all my money, lost all my money. How to get it back again to realize like, oh, I need to live well below my eens. Then did that for a long enough period of time to go like, oh, okay, this is cool. I can.

[Doug]

Well, I think, you know, on top of all that too, is just the knowledge, experience and just the way that you train now so much more efficiently and smart. That's what I've been experiencing that too. I'm like tripping out that I could ramped back up to a level where I was strong. I felt like, strong. This was. I. I swear it was like a decade ago that I felt this strong, you know, and it's. And it's now just applying everything we talk ad nauseam about on the podcast, but really just like owning that and also feeling your way through that with your body, knowing your body and that maturity, it. It's so. Such a superpower, so to be able to establish that early and like, really put the work in and it's. It's a grind and it's hard and, you know, and it just seems like it's, It's.

[Adam Schafer]

It's.

[Doug]

It takes forever for you to get that kind of that peak level. Well, getting back to that. It's. It's. It's crazy how you can.

[Adam Schafer]

You've only been active, you've only been training hard consistently like this for this particular goal for how long?

[Justin Andrews]

Two months, Right?

[Doug]

Almost three months.

[Adam Schafer]

And you already surpassed your previous record, right? Yeah. Your lifetime record left.

[Doug]

Lifetime record. Yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

Isn't that great?

[Doug]

It's crazy.

[Adam Schafer]

I know.

[Doug]

I'm tripping. It's. It doesn't make sense, you know, to me personally, like, on paper, but it's like it's, you know, just experiencing it. It's. It's cool, man.

[Justin Andrews]

Well, because, I mean, you bring up such a good point too, because you're. And you're right. I'm sure that makes the thing that I was talking about and just compounds it. Right? Not only do you get all this benefit from investing for so many years of muscle memory and that great side of it, then the wisdom side. Wisdom is big because. Because how much more progress would all.

[Adam Schafer]

Of us made in our youth if we weren't so stupid?

[Doug]

I did not listen to my body.

[Justin Andrews]

No, no.

[Doug]

Everything was in spite of y bet.

[Justin Andrews]

I bet when you hit that the last time you hit those numbers that you surpassed already at your age, you were probably overdoing it. Yeah, probably crazy. Training and sport for two, three years straight. And like, yeah, you're probably peak pushing.

[Doug]

Your body veins popping out my eyeballs, out of my head just to get it, you know, And. And I. I'm like, I'm joking. And everything in between sets and. And then throwing up weight that I never even attempted at a younger age. Yeah, it's a trip.

[Adam Schafer]

Speaking of fitness, I got a cool study on sauna use and how auna use improves VO2 max when combined with exercise.

[Justin Andrews]

You want to know how much sauna use combined with.

[Adam Schafer]

With V. So 15 minutes of the sauna after exercise three days a week. How much more do you think it improved VO2 max in individuals?

[Justin Andrews]

It's impacting VO2 max. That situation.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

Because the dialect. What's it. I don't.

[Adam Schafer]

Just vascular health interest. Yeah. Two times double. They. They led to a two time improvement in VO2 max.

[Doug]

Interesting.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

Wow.

[Adam Schafer]

It's.

[Doug]

I mean, it's not really even stressing your cardiovascular.

[Adam Schafer]

It has some interesting exercise like effects on the body.

[Doug]

Yeah. It simulates it. Right.

[Justin Andrews]

I. I heard an interview. I wish I remember who was interviewing Peter Attia when they asked this question to give him the credit. But they asked him a question like that. Like, you know, looking back, like, you know, what are. I forgot the way he framed the question. But it's basically asking him things that you've been doing this for so long, like, what are you way more bullish on today?

[Adam Schafer]

Oh, yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

Than before. And he was like, sauna?

[Adam Schafer]

Yep.

[Justin Andrews]

He's like, the, the research on that is just fast. It's like you should do everyone really healthy. Yeah. The thing, all these crazy benefits from. From something that's so easy to do. Right. Like so easy. It's not hard to sit. It's like very relaxing, actually.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

So it's not a hard ask for people to sit in a sauna for 15, 20 minutes a few times a week. Yet the benefits are so profound. Just doing that. That was one of the top things that he said is like. Was probably that he's changed his mind on or. That's so much more profound. And I agree. I feel like the, the more and more we've read on the. It's like, dude, it's like, this has got to be a staple in everybody.

[Adam Schafer]

I. When I would use sauna back in the day, when I would test my stamina, when I would do like jiu jitsu and stuff and I'd use a sauna, I attributed it to my ability to acclimate to heat. Because when you're doing jiu jitsu, you have a gion.

[Justin Andrews]

Sure.

[Doug]

Yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

You're wrestling. So you get. And I did get more stamina because I thought it was. Because I'm sure that played part of it. But no, it actually gives you more stamina. It actually improves your VO2 max, which is wild.

[Justin Andrews]

Wild.

[Adam Schafer]

He's just sitting there, hey, stop working out. And I'm just sitting here. We'll make it twice as effective.

[Justin Andrews]

I wonder how big the sauna market has become in the last decade. Can you look that up?

[Adam Schafer]

The Us way bigger. Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

I mean, I remember when we were. When we were early trainers, there was none of these.

[Adam Schafer]

Nobody had a song in their house.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah, these. This has become. There's like, tons of competitive brands in the.

[Doug]

All the Viking countries knew about this forever.

[Adam Schafer]

They've been used. That's part of their culture. It's been part of the culture for a long time. Yeah, but not here. No. Yeah. What does it say there, Doug?

[Sal DiStefano]

Yeah, boy. Yeah. So in 2023, $859 million.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah. I wonder what it was in, like 2010.

[Justin Andrews]

I mean, reaching a billion dollar market, that's. It's big.

[Sal DiStefano]

That's almost there.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah. 20 years ago. I bet it was nothing like that.

[Sal DiStefano]

It's interesting because I do sauna maybe two, three times a week.

[Adam Schafer]

You do?

[Sal DiStefano]

But I had to stop doing it in the evening because my heart rate would go up.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

So what got rid of your droopy eye?

[Sal DiStefano]

Did I actually have droopy eye? I mean, I don't know.

[Justin Andrews]

Oh, you're off air. I got it. I had to do it to Doug on there.

[Sal DiStefano]

Droopy eye. I don't know if I like that. You know, that doesn't sound very.

[Doug]

Trying to paint a contrast here.

[Adam Schafer]

Why, bro? Why do you say that? No, dude, he uses Caldera Labs iron.

[Sal DiStefano]

I use eye serum.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah. How do you like it?

[Sal DiStefano]

I mean, it helps. Obviously. I do have some puffiness in my eyes, but it does reduce it. I know. I look at myself, it's like, yeah, if I could only get it all. All the way down.

[Doug]

But it does levels for you.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah.

[Sal DiStefano]

Well, look, I've got stress, all right?

[Doug]

I know, Doug. I know the levels that you create.

[Adam Schafer]

Eye serum pretty regularly.

[Sal DiStefano]

Oh, every day. Every day. So I use that. And what it does at night before.

[Adam Schafer]

You go to bed.

[Sal DiStefano]

No, in the morning. Yeah, I mean, I want to look my best right here. Yeah. I'm doing it for you guys, right? No, but it does. It does reduce down the puffiness.

[Justin Andrews]

No, I know. Right here, right underneath here.

[Adam Schafer]

I need to use.

[Justin Andrews]

No, I've. I've used it before. I've done it. We talked about the last time we brought it up. I got. I got fat face. Doug's got droopy eye. You got beak face. We need one for Justin.

[Adam Schafer]

That's just his favorite thing to say to me, dude, you know that.

[Justin Andrews]

I know he does.

[Doug]

I had to make something up, dude.

[Justin Andrews]

Somebody's gonna make a good. Bring that ego down to stay.

[Adam Schafer]

Stay on. Stay on the topic. Do you. You use their sunscreen right?

[Doug]

Yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

Is that the one you use all the time? Does it leave a white? Does it leave like a white? Because it's.

[Doug]

It doesn't. No, there's no like, like big. What do you call it? Like a chalky kind of.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah.

[Doug]

Residue. It's not like that.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah, yeah. You got to really look into the chemicals and stuff. People are.

[Justin Andrews]

Can I use it for my son?

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

Their sunscreen.

[Adam Schafer]

Yes, absolutely.

[Sal DiStefano]

Well, they're saying now that like regular sunscreens are like super bad for you right now.

[Justin Andrews]

I know it's. I freak out.

[Adam Schafer]

Actually contributed the hormone disruption and there's just the.

[Justin Andrews]

I'm like, stop putting that on here.

[Adam Schafer]

Probable carcinogen. You just got to look at like yesterday we were at the, we were at the store and we were buying. My daughter came with us, my 15 year old, and she's like, get this candle warmer for me. And I'm thinking about the candles you put under it. And what it does is it warms the candle, releases the scent. Right?

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

And it's all. It's all xenoestrogens. We found some. That's why Jessica texted yesterday.

[Justin Andrews]

Okay.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah. But we found some non toxic ones. But you have to look at this stuff because you're just. We're just bombarding, dude.

[Doug]

I mean, it's. You look at what we've. What products have been created for us and it's all like petroleum based everything. And that's really been the biggest problem. It's like they've been able to recycle a lot of material that they. Because it was big business back in the day. Like, how can we, you know, keep using more of this, this waste? And they figured out so many different ways, even making it into like sugar.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah.

[Doug]

And it's like, it's mind blowing. So to, to remove us from all this petroleum based existence, I think is the first step.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah. Yeah. All right, I'm gonna. I'm gonna. This is cool, Justin. You're gonna like what I'm about to tell you.

[Doug]

Okay.

[Adam Schafer]

Okay. So I just. I saw a clip on X, I think it was. And I'm like, that can't be real. So I looked it up and it is real. Okay, how. I'm gonna start with. I'll start with this. How was Satan depicted in Genesis? What was he?

[Doug]

The snake.

[Adam Schafer]

The snake, right. Yeah. And what is one of the animal. What do they refer to as Jesus as an animal? What do they call him if they're going to call him an animal? No, no, no. The. He's A lamb. Right, the lamb.

[Justin Andrews]

Right.

[Adam Schafer]

Did you know where we get antidote for snake venom?

[Justin Andrews]

From lamb.

[Adam Schafer]

Lamb blood?

[Doug]

No way.

[Adam Schafer]

Lamb blood? Yes. Dude, I. I looked it up.

[Justin Andrews]

Look it up. Let me see.

[Adam Schafer]

Do it.

[Justin Andrews]

Fact check. This guy. Doug.

[Adam Schafer]

Go ahead. Go ahead and look it up.

[Justin Andrews]

This guy.

[Adam Schafer]

I'll read you right here. Go ahead. It says right here, lamb's blood. He'll look it up. Specifically from sheep is used to create antivenom for rattlesnake bites.

[Justin Andrews]

So does that mean, like, a lamb could get bit by a rattlesnake and be totally fine?

[Adam Schafer]

They get an immune reaction and they can actually start to defend themselves.

[Justin Andrews]

So I wonder if that's a way they've evolved over time because they've been bitten by so many times.

[Adam Schafer]

Well, that would be the secular argument.

[Justin Andrews]

I gotta play that way nowadays. You know, I used to not have.

[Adam Schafer]

To play that way while sheep's blood has been used in the production of antivenom. Yeah. See?

[Doug]

Wow.

[Adam Schafer]

Isn't that cool?

[Justin Andrews]

Interesting.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah. Is that weird?

[Justin Andrews]

It is weird.

[Adam Schafer]

Isn't that weird? Yeah, I know. I like that.

[Doug]

Skeptical of reptiles. Let's be honest.

[Adam Schafer]

What do you mean? Cold blood, huh? You trust.

[Doug]

They're different.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah, yeah.

[Sal DiStefano]

They're forked tongues.

[Doug]

Yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

You know, it's. Are we. Are there. Is it just me or there are more lizards? Just random lizards. I don't remember as a kid seeing lots of lizards anywhere. I see them all over my. All over the neighborhood.

[Justin Andrews]

I think it's where you live less.

[Doug]

Yeah. Predators around?

[Adam Schafer]

No. Do you remember them a lot? Well, you grew up in the country.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah. So they were. We. That was a big thing for us as kids. Snakes and lizards.

[Doug]

You don't have any more. Because of my cats, dude. They've been eating. I'm like. I like lizards.

[Justin Andrews]

But we grew up in. In rocky hot. Near Water Lake. So that was like, a very, very common thing to see.

[Adam Schafer]

Here's something. I brought this up the other day. I would love Doug to look this up just to see if I'm correct. You guys remember when we were kids? Okay. 90s, right? Early 2000s. Definitely the 90s. When there was old dog poop on the lawn.

[Justin Andrews]

Was it white?

[Adam Schafer]

It was white.

[Doug]

You brought this up the other day. You're. I have not seen white.

[Justin Andrews]

That was a really interesting fact. We were on. So the audience knows we are walk. So we do our little daily walk.

[Adam Schafer]

200 steps a day.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah, yeah. If we. So we're not. We're not super sedentary. We do our walks every day and we Were walking around the block and Sal asked, when was the last time you saw white dog poop? And right away I went like, oh my God. You took me back to a kid of picking up dog poop around the house. And typical teenage boy who has a chore and your chore is to pick up dog poop. You wait until, you know, your parents yelled at you four times, you know what I'm saying? And it's like, it's like a four hour job. And I remember it'd be all hard and white. And white. Yeah. And so you brought up when was last time. I was like, that's probably the last time. When I was a kid in the late 80s, early 90s was the last time I seen that.

[Doug]

Well, it reminds me immediately I told the story, I think maybe once on the podcast. But like, I just got bored, you know, because you have to do chores and like I used to like try and entertain myself. And so we were pick. It was so many dog.

[Justin Andrews]

It was just throw the neighbor's yard.

[Doug]

And so we just took like my friend and I were. That was our job. We had to like get rid of the dog poop. And I just decided to start throwing it and I threw it across neighbor. We didn't like our neighbor. He was a total dick. And anyway, he deserved this. So I threw it and landed on his roof. And we kept. We thought it was hilarious.

[Adam Schafer]

It is hilarious.

[Doug]

We kept going. You put dog shit all over his roof. So just launched it, dude, to go over there and apologize.

[Adam Schafer]

Oh, how did they.

[Justin Andrews]

Oh, you got caught.

[Doug]

Yeah, I got caught. Like the last one, like he came out of his house and one of them almost hit him.

[Adam Schafer]

He had to go on his roof.

[Justin Andrews]

Wow. So tell us why. Okay, so you told us on the walk, why. Why is it no longer white?

[Adam Schafer]

Because. And I thought it was because they don't put the same minerals in there. It's true. White dog poop often seen in the past. Is this common now due to changes in dog food and dietary habits. In the past, many dog foods were high in bone meal and meat, which meant dogs often consumed excess calcium. The excess calcium would sometimes be excreted, appearing as white coating on dried dog poop. Today, modern dog foods are generally better balanced and don't necessarily contain as much calcium. No, no, hold on a second. That's. They're better balanced now. Before they had more meat. I think they're less balanced now. Do they put meat in it still?

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah, they still do.

[Sal DiStefano]

The bone meal would have all the calcium.

[Adam Schafer]

Right? Less Calcium was.

[Justin Andrews]

It isn't dog food derived from, like, dead horse. Horse meat?

[Adam Schafer]

I don't. I think that's illegal. Yes.

[Doug]

Like, they might. I mean, who knows?

[Adam Schafer]

I don't think you can serve horse meat.

[Doug]

It's not.

[Justin Andrews]

You're not serving the humans.

[Adam Schafer]

I don't think that's giving to dogs either.

[Justin Andrews]

I don't know what the dog laws are.

[Adam Schafer]

His horse meat and dog food. Put that.

[Justin Andrews]

I don't think you can check it out. I thought that. I thought that was true.

[Doug]

I think it's all the leftovers on the floor of the factory.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah. I always think stuff like this, though, is so interesting. Is like, how long. Like, how long till finding stuff. Someone goes. Scratch their head. Went like, why is the dog. Like, let's. Let's dive into the science of that a little bit.

[Doug]

Yeah. It was like it used to look like powdered dough.

[Justin Andrews]

Like, we went for years. It wasn't like it happened like, one time and then someone figured it out.

[Doug]

It was always one, like, a little to it, too. Like, sometimes you get, like, the bacteria that, like, grew. It was like. Like spongy, man.

[Adam Schafer]

You wait a lot of dog in.

[Justin Andrews]

Commercial available dog food.

[Adam Schafer]

No, I told you.

[Justin Andrews]

Typically. What does that mean? Why wouldn't it just be like. No, it's not. It's illegal. It's not typically.

[Sal DiStefano]

Well, maybe somebody slides it in.

[Doug]

Yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

I don't know. It's like, is it horse meat? Dog food?

[Justin Andrews]

Horse meat?

[Doug]

They don't want you to know that.

[Justin Andrews]

Horses are commonly slaughtered for pet food. Oh, so that was a.

[Adam Schafer]

It's a misconception.

[Justin Andrews]

Common misconception.

[Adam Schafer]

Horses are typically not. I mean, we. Nobody eats. I think horse meat in general is illegal. Right? That. I don't know, because. Why. Because horses are. You know, there was this. I saw this PETA ad, and it was like, you know, where do you draw the line? And it had, like, a dog, a cat, a horse, a cow, a chicken, or whatever. And then someone took a picture of it and then drew a line. I draw it right here, you know, like, you know, I'll eat cow. You know, here's the line. But yeah, it's like, yeah, you know, there's some animals that are. You know, dogs and horses are. We value them differently.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah, we do. But if it was. If this was a long time ago and it meant surviving, you would eat it.

[Sal DiStefano]

People ate horse.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah. Yeah, I've eaten it. Well, you. Oh, you've eaten horse in Japan?

[Sal DiStefano]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

No, raw. Raw horse, bro. Yeah, that's. That sounds gross.

[Adam Schafer]

It does You've also eaten raw chicken, huh?

[Sal DiStefano]

Yes, I have.

[Adam Schafer]

They serve. You know that they serve raw chicken there, like sushi.

[Sal DiStefano]

Yeah, it's actually good.

[Justin Andrews]

Oh, really?

[Doug]

Sashimi.

[Adam Schafer]

It's raw.

[Sal DiStefano]

Yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

That's not good.

[Sal DiStefano]

It tastes good.

[Adam Schafer]

No way. Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

I mean, we eat raw beef. You eat raw beef and you eat raw fish. Why would not. Well, they.

[Doug]

They serve a pigeon, like squab, as they say.

[Adam Schafer]

Right.

[Doug]

That's. That was like in a New York. Like some restaurant.

[Adam Schafer]

What's the weirdest thing you guys have eaten? Doug, you for sure have one.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah, Yeah. I don't know.

[Doug]

He wins with horse. Hopefully nobody here said dog, because I'm going to leave.

[Sal DiStefano]

I have not eaten dog.

[Adam Schafer]

Okay. I just.

[Sal DiStefano]

That I'm aware of anyway.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah, that you're aware of.

[Adam Schafer]

My wife would win if she was here.

[Justin Andrews]

Oh, really?

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah, because she traveled the world with. With Cirque. So she's eating guinea pig in.

[Justin Andrews]

That's not that crazy.

[Adam Schafer]

And then she had the craziest thing she ever had, which I'm like, I don't even know how you're here. She was in some like, some like, weird village because remember, she traveled to Cirque and then they would go off and do things when they would have time off. And there was a bar. It was an outdoor bar, she said, and they would kill a snake and bleed it into a cup and then add vodka. So you'd have fresh snake blood with vodka and do a shot.

[Sal DiStefano]

Probably Thailand.

[Adam Schafer]

She did that.

[Justin Andrews]

That's kind of wild.

[Adam Schafer]

It might have thought.

[Justin Andrews]

What's the thought process of that?

[Doug]

Sounds safe.

[Adam Schafer]

No idea.

[Justin Andrews]

I mean, snake is not that uncommon though.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah. Snake meat is supposed to be pretty good. In fact, I remember we considered cooking it and eating it one time because we used to kill. We used to kill rattlesnakes all the time out there.

[Adam Schafer]

Oh, you were going to do it here?

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

Oh, yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah. Because we used to kill. And I can't remember as a kid who. Who had told me or my. Whoever. I don't remember who it was. Was like, oh, yeah, no, you could cook that up. It's actually really good. What?

[Adam Schafer]

No, dude.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah, no.

[Adam Schafer]

Justin's eating weird.

[Doug]

Oh, dude. It was all like fear fact.

[Adam Schafer]

Nothing beside.

[Justin Andrews]

Nothing outside of chicken nuggets. Yeah.

[Doug]

If it was up to me, it.

[Justin Andrews]

Be one time I had a medium rare steak.

[Adam Schafer]

Steak?

[Doug]

Yeah, right. I had. What's it called? The black, big, huge, rotten, like, duck egg.

[Adam Schafer]

Oh, you ate that?

[Doug]

Yeah, that was like. When I was. It was part of this whole fraternity thing and Like, I was living at this house, and.

[Adam Schafer]

That's disgusting.

[Doug]

Yeah, dude, it was. It was. So I threw up everywhere. It was.

[Adam Schafer]

Oh, you actually got sick? Of course.

[Doug]

Immediately. Dude, you think I put that down and be cool with it?

[Justin Andrews]

Not to totally switch gears, but I'm sure the audience will appreciate that I'm switching gears. Somebody messaged in because they heard me talking about the chlorine and pools and said that I can spray.

[Adam Schafer]

You said this already?

[Justin Andrews]

Vitamin C. Yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

You brought this up.

[Justin Andrews]

Oh, I did?

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah. You did bring.

[Justin Andrews]

I haven't done this yet. I want to. I want to do this.

[Adam Schafer]

No, you brought this up. We looked it up.

[Justin Andrews]

Did you send me over how to make it?

[Adam Schafer]

I did.

[Justin Andrews]

Oh, yeah, Send it over to me. That's why I was bringing it up, because I didn't think you sent it to me. I don't. I don't read anything you send me.

[Adam Schafer]

I guess you don't even pay attention when you look like you're paying attention. You asked me and I told you, and you caught. You conversed with me. You did a whole thing.

[Doug]

Oh, I ate a rock eel, too, one time. It's. You catch it in the ocean. Rocky. Really ugly.

[Justin Andrews]

Oh, that's not that crazy, though.

[Adam Schafer]

That's not bad.

[Justin Andrews]

It's a fish, right?

[Doug]

I mean, yeah, you eat eels.

[Sal DiStefano]

Come back to this.

[Doug]

Sushi.

[Justin Andrews]

But, yeah, Justin's like, I'm not done. I got more stories.

[Doug]

You guys think I'm sold nuggets. I'm pretty cultured.

[Justin Andrews]

Doug, have you had Rocky Mountain oysters?

[Sal DiStefano]

I have not.

[Justin Andrews]

Okay, that's.

[Doug]

You ate some testicles.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah. Cowboys, right? Yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

I don't believe I've.

[Sal DiStefano]

I may have had them in some other form.

[Justin Andrews]

That's kind of common, too.

[Sal DiStefano]

The thing I saw that was the weirdest was in Cambodia. There were these ladies selling these big. They had these big trays of bugs.

[Adam Schafer]

Oh, no, no.

[Sal DiStefano]

Some were tarantulas.

[Adam Schafer]

No, no, no, no, no, no.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah.

[Sal DiStefano]

And this guy that was on my tour bus, this Vietnamese guy, he bought a bag full of tarantulas, and he was eating like.

[Justin Andrews]

Like chips.

[Sal DiStefano]

I couldn't do it.

[Doug]

Yeah, that's.

[Adam Schafer]

That is just. That ruined me for a little bit.

[Justin Andrews]

I mean, it's weird. It's kind of trippy, though, when you think about how I'm not good. We've all, like how easily we're all conditioned to eating the way we all eat and anything outside of that. So gross. And you know what I'm saying, Like.

[Doug]

This is a cultural.

[Justin Andrews]

It is a cultural thing because if you grew up eating tarantulas and it was a normal thing, and your parents did.

[Adam Schafer]

Well, when I was a kid.

[Doug]

Potato chips.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

Well, when I was a kid, I told you. I told you guys a story. We went. We visited. My cousin had just married this guy who lived in, like, the. The hills of Sicily. So they're like farmers like that. And they. They killed. They killed a go right in front of me. It was all tied up all sweet. I was, like, playing with it. Yeah. And they just came in and it stabbed it. And, you know, it was. You know, I was bleeding. And then they cut it and chop it up in front of me. Yeah. And then we ate it.

[Doug]

This is for you.

[Adam Schafer]

But. Because I saw that process. It was a strange feeling.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

I remember eating it, going. I just saw them kill.

[Justin Andrews]

We do that with chickens. And I had a hard time with the chicken after. I had a hard time.

[Adam Schafer]

Did you have to kill the chickens?

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

You did?

[Justin Andrews]

Oh, yeah. Break its neck, slit its throat, stick it in a cone upside down, bleed it out, put it in steaming hot water, pluck it. Did all of it.

[Adam Schafer]

Oh, you did all that stuff?

[Justin Andrews]

All of it. Yeah. We. We ra. I raised a man, had to kill them. That was like. Remember I told you I worked on an organic.

[Adam Schafer]

That's right.

[Justin Andrews]

Dairy. Before organic was like, a thing.

[Adam Schafer]

But I know you killed chickens.

[Justin Andrews]

One of the things that we did was a mobile chicken coop, which was really. Actually.

[Adam Schafer]

That's smart.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah. Brilliant. Ahead of its time and everything like that.

[Adam Schafer]

When we.

[Justin Andrews]

When we're doing it and raising these organic chickens. And then at the end of raising them, he was like, all right, it's time to slaughter. And, like, we were like, this total Mom Paul place. So it's. We had, like, a makeshift setup, like. Yeah. This bowling, boiling pot of water out outside. And then we took orange emergency cones, cut the tips off so that you could shove their heads down, down it, and they would bleed out. Because when you. After you cut a chicken's head off or slice their throat, like, they're still gonna run. Oh, yeah. They still kick and flop and deal. So that. So shoving in the cone kept them from doing that. Let them bleed all the way out, and then you dip them in the steaming hot water and then.

[Adam Schafer]

Wow.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

It was eating chicken weird for you?

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah, yeah. No, it took me a while. I can't remember how long it was. Was. But I remember being a young man, I was in high school, doing that and, you know, acting tough while I was doing, like, no problem, you know, Like I was totally game. Like whatever my boss said I'd be doing. I'm not, I'm like, I'm not afraid. Whatever. Did some really gross things working there and. But I remember afterwards when, like having a real hard time for, for probably a year or two.

[Doug]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

I was like, I'm cool on the chicken tonight. You know what I'm saying?

[Doug]

Like, it did, I know it's not, it's not fun.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah, it messed that up for.

[Adam Schafer]

We're so far removed from our food.

[Doug]

Yeah, dude.

[Justin Andrews]

And I do, I do think there is some value to that.

[Adam Schafer]

That's why I want to go hunting. I've never gone hunting before, but I want to go hunting because I feel hypocritical almost because I'm so far removed from my food that I want to go and do the whole process and see, you know.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah, I, I, I think there, I think there's tremendous value to that. I think people, we, we people should, I mean, I think it should be a skill we should all try to learn. I mean, I think it's unfortunate that we don't teach those types of things in school. I think every kid should learn all that and be a normal practice. Especially if you plan on eating that for the rest of your life.

[Adam Schafer]

I mean, it sounds like. Makes sense, Makes sense to do that.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

I got, I got a study on creatine side effects. You guys want to hear it? No, they did a big study.

[Justin Andrews]

That's great.

[Adam Schafer]

They do. Big study. They looked at a bunch of studies and the side effects from creatine match the placebo. In other words, it's a super safe supplement. Super safe supplement. The only side effects someone may get is gastro effects, in which case take smaller doses throughout.

[Justin Andrews]

I mean, we're this close to beginning to recommend it to kids all the time. Yeah, I feel like it's real, real close to that.

[Adam Schafer]

So I've been, I've been taking 15. Who's doing it with me? Are you guys taking 10, 15 grams a day? 10, 15 a day.

[Doug]

Doing it since the series started.

[Adam Schafer]

Okay. So I've been taking about 15 grams a day. But if I do it in like 4 or 5 gram doses, split out, that's totally fine.

[Doug]

I did the full five a couple times.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah, If I take all at once, then it's not good.

[Justin Andrews]

I noticed that the first time. Remember I said it didn't bother me? Yeah, yeah. I was getting down on those gummies. Well, no, actually it like blocked me up.

[Doug]

Oh yeah?

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah.

[Doug]

I just noticed like crampy That's.

[Justin Andrews]

I felt more. Like I had more, but closer to constipation than I did. It didn't give me diarrhea for sure, but it gave me more constipation, so definitely upset.

[Adam Schafer]

Are you noticing any benefits from the higher doses of creatine?

[Doug]

I'm not. I'm not sure because.

[Adam Schafer]

Because you're also training hard.

[Doug]

Training hard.

[Adam Schafer]

It's.

[Doug]

It's hard to. I don't know if I can isolate as easy as. I know that's, like, your favorite thing to do is like, okay, am I feeling it right now? I don't know if, like, I can't, like, focus that.

[Justin Andrews]

He's getting a lot of jacked comments.

[Doug]

Yeah. There's a lot of stuff I'm throwing at myself.

[Justin Andrews]

A lot of people say how he. He looks the most jacked.

[Adam Schafer]

He is. He's the most jacked I've ever seen him. Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

You've put on, like, 12 pounds of muscle.

[Justin Andrews]

I. I wish you would have freaking.

[Adam Schafer]

I know.

[Justin Andrews]

Maybe anything makes me so mad. He didn't, too. I'm like, bro, come on. You're already doing this.

[Doug]

I'm a little heavier, for sure. It was, like.

[Justin Andrews]

It would have been really cool.

[Doug]

Heavier.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah. You're seven pounds heavier on the scale.

[Doug]

I think so.

[Adam Schafer]

Oh, but you're. But you look. Are you leaner, too?

[Doug]

Yeah, leaner. Yeah, I'm definitely.

[Justin Andrews]

It would have been really.

[Doug]

It would have been my diet for.

[Justin Andrews]

The audience to see someone who doesn't care about this stuff that goes about programming to get stronger.

[Adam Schafer]

Definitely would have sold more programs. Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

Definitely would have probably helped the business out. That would have been not a bad idea, maybe.

[Adam Schafer]

Such an idiot. Are you. Are you doing body. Other body parts, too? Because looks like your whole body's responding.

[Doug]

Yeah, Well, I mean, it's supplemental, really. I haven't even been, like. Obviously, I've been training my legs just. Just enough. Like, I've been doing front squats and things to kind of supplement what I'm trying to do with my push press. And, dude, like, I'm in a split stance a lot more, so I've been doing lunging.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah.

[Doug]

But, I mean, all of it is affecting, dude. This lift itself, I swear, like we had talked about, it literally is like, the upper body squat.

[Adam Schafer]

It.

[Doug]

It covers everything. Like, I. I feel this all the way down my body every time I.

[Justin Andrews]

Especially the way.

[Adam Schafer]

Are you gonna do what Adam did where he just stopped afterwards he was done? Are you gonna keep. Are you gonna try to, like, at least keep some of This, I mean.

[Doug]

I don't want to, like, Yeah, I don't want to hype that up because I will want to, like, take a nice little, like, break in terms of intensity, but I'm really enjoying how I feel right now on the strength and everything, the movement wise. So the athleticism, if anything, it'll be less intense, but more range of motion and more movement focus.

[Justin Andrews]

He's already feeling like a fraction of how I. Because one, I was tracking everything I ate. I was documenting on Instagram.

[Adam Schafer]

Stop everything.

[Doug]

That's why I'm not doing that.

[Justin Andrews]

Everything. I don't eat like an. I don't eat like an. I'm still, like, keeping my diet in check.

[Adam Schafer]

Last time you work out.

[Justin Andrews]

Well, it's been a while.

[Adam Schafer]

Yes.

[Sal DiStefano]

So, yeah, there's actually a comment in a recent video.

[Justin Andrews]

What?

[Sal DiStefano]

Did Adam stop working out?

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah, See, I mean, there's a couple. I mean, do anything to Adam, he doesn't.

[Adam Schafer]

He cares nothing.

[Justin Andrews]

Especially when my wife makes comments like, you look good, hon. Have you been lifting? I'm like, I haven't actually. Just. Just some boxes.

[Adam Schafer]

If we could tie it to money somehow, like, oh, man, sales went down.

[Justin Andrews]

This is turning. It's like, yeah, then I might fire up.

[Doug]

I would have been motivated.

[Adam Schafer]

Is Courtney commenting on how you look and everything?

[Doug]

Oh, yeah, yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

Oh, really?

[Doug]

I mean, she comments on it, but it's funny because she gets a little like, she pulls it back, like, oh, I need to. You know, it's just. I don't know. It always annoys me because it's always like, she gets, like, more insecure when I get in better shape. And then it's like, I'm like, no, honey, like, it's has nothing to do with that.

[Adam Schafer]

That's how you. Then you just convince her to have more sex with you.

[Doug]

I do.

[Adam Schafer]

You know, it'll help.

[Doug]

I hope this helps.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

Good stuff. Well, good job. Look, you're not what you eat. You're what you digest. The right digestive enzymes will break down your food, get those nutrients to your muscles, help your digestion, help alleviate things like bloating. There's a company we work with called Mastimes. These are the best digestive enzymes for fitness enthusiasts like you. Go check them out. Go to masszymes.com that's M A S S Z Y M E S dot com. Mindpump. Use the code mindpump10 and get 10% off. Back to the show.

[Sal DiStefano]

Our first caller is Josh from New York.

[Adam Schafer]

Josh, what's up, man?

[Justin Andrews]

How you doing? Josh, what's up, guys?

[Adam Schafer]

Thanks for waiting. How can we help you, brother?

[Caller 1 (Josh)]

Well, I wrote because I've been having issues with, you know, recovery time, and it just seems, you know, constantly dealing with injuries whenever I'm trying to train, you know, I feel like I'm pretty diligent with my warm ups and whatnot. You know, probably could be a little better with my cooldowns and stretches afterwards. But just as far back as I can remember, I've just always been having issues with, you know, setbacks. I have a couple ideas and theories, but, you know, I wanted to hear what you guys had to say about it or if you've dealt with similar people in the past.

[Adam Schafer]

What are your, what are your theories? I'd like to hear what you think.

[Caller 1 (Josh)]

Well, I've been going to the doctor. I have, you know, a list of issues from the past. You know, I got like Lyme disease, I have hyperthyroidism, you know, Graves disease. Pre existing injuries from the Marine Corps, you know, they definitely took their pound of flesh and it just seems, you know, just that kind of list. Joints, aches and pains, you know, pulling muscles left and right. You know, probably my current lifestyle probably doesn't help either. You know, I, I work as a co. I'm a volunteer firefighter as well. So, yeah, I stayed pretty active, pretty busy.

[Adam Schafer]

Okay. All right.

[Justin Andrews]

What Maps program are you following right now? Josh?

[Caller 1 (Josh)]

So I was doing performance, but, you know, I had to stop that due to, you know, shoulder, both of my shoulders actually at the same time. So that was almost two months ago. You know, I hurt him so bad that, you know, I could barely lift my arms afterwards.

[Adam Schafer]

So here's, here's what happens or here's the checklist when it comes to injuries. Now, if it's like, you know, one injury or two, you know, you typically want to look at technique and form and are you able to, are you doing exercises that are appropriate for your body? Are you able to move properly, do you have enough stabilization, et cetera, et cetera. When it's repeated injuries, when it's like a string and it seems to be a trend. And also I think this is probably you just looking at your background. I'm looking at your background, military, volunteer firefighter, law enforcement. Usually what it is in that case is poor sleep. So not enough sleep or bad sleep. It's not, it's just not good and, or overstress over training. So if it's repeated. Now here's the challenge when I say that to people, if they're used to having Poor sleep. Then they'll probably just be like, nah, I sleep the same as I've always been, unless it's really bad. Then they'll be like, yeah, it's sleep. The second thing with the overtraining is we often judge how much we're doing based off of maybe what we could tolerate before. So you might be, oh, I only work out four days a week. You know, I don't do. I don't think I'm overdoing it, but the string of injuries, the fact that you're talking about having repeated pulled muscles, shoulder pain, and this is like a long standing kind of thing. I would say sleep and overtraining is where we're at, or overstressed and under rest. And so I'd scale way back and I would prioritize sleep. How is your sleep? Do you get a full eight hours every night? Do you wake up in the middle of the night? Do you need a lot of caffeine during the day?

[Caller 1 (Josh)]

Oh, no, my sleep is terrible. I've, you know, pretty much ditched caffeine. You know, I had a feeling you guys were definitely gonna hit on over training and whatnot. My endocrinologist, he was on me day one. Like, you need to stop for, you know, a month or two until we get medication, balance, get your life balanced. Like, okay, that makes sense. So when he gave me the go ahead, I started easing back into it super slow, you know, not overdoing anything. Mainly starting with mobility, working on that, and then slowly incorporating strength training again. So I, I do feel like I, I have scaled back.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

How'd you feel when you were doing the mobility? When you were just doing mobility, how'd you feel?

[Caller 1 (Josh)]

At first it was, it was frustrating, you know, felt like I could slash, should be doing more. But, you know, I got used to it, you know, started focusing on the benefits and the positives of it. You know, it makes sense with the condition that I'm in right now. You know, I'm not in my 20s anymore. You know, can't just jump into stuff and start grinding away. Like I used to.

[Adam Schafer]

Tell me about your sleep. You said it's terrible. Give me some details.

[Caller 1 (Josh)]

Oh, yeah. I wake up quite frequently during the night. Even with me doing volunteer work, when it's during my regular work week, I will try and prioritize the sleep and make sure I get sleep unless there's a big emergency going on. It feels kind of bad to say that out loud, but, you know, I'm useless if I'm not, you know, Performing at an optimum level. So I do recognize that.

[Adam Schafer]

So the data on sleep and injury is. There's nothing is in the same universe.

[Doug]

Yeah. Biggest contributor.

[Adam Schafer]

It's not just like, you know, it's the highest contributor to injury. Nothing comes close to. In fact, one night of poor sleep will almost double the rate of injury. So if you have a. If you're chronically under slept, number one, you can. You're kind of used to it, so you probably don't know what it feels like to really feel rested, but you're. You're going to keep it. So I'm going to be honest with you, Josh. There's nothing we can tell you to do exercise wise. Yeah. That's going to help this until you get your sleep fixed.

[Doug]

And it's great that you've scaled down and you've scaled, you know, and focused on, you know, bringing the intensity down and whatnot. But you're not recovering if you're not sleeping. Like, nothing. Nothing training wise is benefiting you in that regard, which is a frustrating reality. But it's. It is the reality of the whole thing.

[Justin Andrews]

Mobility and walking is about all I let you do right now.

[Adam Schafer]

At the most.

[Justin Andrews]

That's about. That's about all I let you do just to keep you sane and moving and stuff like that. Until we address the sleep situation.

[Adam Schafer]

I would go with a sleep expert. Work with a sleep expert and nail this down. Your entire life will change if you could get your sleep in order. Like, everything will change.

[Justin Andrews]

And if you don't, then you're going to be. You'll. Maybe you'll get a hot streak for two or three weeks, but then you'll be right back where you're at again with an injury and set back again. So if you don't listen and you do that, then you know your body will make you listen.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah, but I would. I would work with a sleep expert and I'd say, look, I need. And that's the priority. Like, you have to fix that. You can't do anything else unless that. Unless that gets fixed.

[Justin Andrews]

Okay.

[Doug]

Yeah.

[Caller 1 (Josh)]

You know, I had a feeling we were definitely going to touch on that.

[Justin Andrews]

I know it sucks for an answer.

[Doug]

So lame.

[Adam Schafer]

I know.

[Justin Andrews]

I know it sucks, bro. You know?

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah, but look, I'll. I'll help you feel better about it. You start to fix your sleep, change your life. Your whole life is going to change. How long have you been having poor sleep for?

[Caller 1 (Josh)]

Probably since, you know, I left high school and.

[Adam Schafer]

Oh, bro.

[Caller 1 (Josh)]

And joined the. The Marine Corps, you know.

[Adam Schafer]

Oh, Josh, listen, your brain volume has reduced. You've got less gray matter. There's. There. There are things that you will start to see that'll reverse, that you don't even know are happening because it's been so long. It'll take, like, 60 days of good sleep, and you're gonna start to come.

[Doug]

Out of some fluoride, feel like a new human being.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah, like. Like, it'll feel like superhuman is the difference. But. But you need to work with a sleep expert, because if it's been that long, there's some issues there that need to get addressed.

[Caller 1 (Josh)]

Okay. Yeah, I mean, I noticed I was definitely having problems. I've tried to go through a couple MAPS programs, but, you know, work life just kind of kept getting in the way, and I would have to stop halfway through it or, you know, reset or stay in a phase longer than was planned.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

Walking in mobility only, Josh, until we figure this out, like. Because I get. I get how it would feel horrible to do nothing, so I'm okay with that. But it's got to be walking and mobility until you start to string those weeks together of getting your sleep in line. Anything else is just too high of risk for where you're currently at.

[Adam Schafer]

It won't benefit you.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah, it won't.

[Adam Schafer]

It'll actually make me worse. It'll make you feel worse.

[Doug]

Yeah.

[Caller 1 (Josh)]

So currently I'm in physical therapy for, you know, trying to rehab this.

[Caller 2 (Phil)]

The shoulder.

[Adam Schafer]

Yep.

[Caller 1 (Josh)]

Issues. And that's pretty much. I was waiting for the go ahead from the therapist. She said, start working on your mobility again and, you know, walking.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah.

[Caller 1 (Josh)]

Okay, I can do that.

[Adam Schafer]

No tap. Yeah, that's it. And like I said, tackle sleep like. That's it. I gotta fix this. So you work with a sleep expert and you work on it, and you should notice pronounced improvements within the first 30 days, but you got. You got to get that addressed.

[Doug]

Otherwise you're just laser focused on that.

[Adam Schafer]

Yep.

[Doug]

That's your. That's your entire world right now.

[Adam Schafer]

That's going to affect your health. It already is. It's affecting your health in some pretty negative ways, and there's not much you can do exercise wise to remedy that.

[Justin Andrews]

All right. Yeah.

[Caller 1 (Josh)]

I was kind of hoping, you know, for some guidance, of course, regarding, you know, warm ups, styles, you know, different.

[Justin Andrews]

No, just mobility.

[Caller 1 (Josh)]

Broken pattern.

[Doug]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

Yep. Just. Just.

[Caller 1 (Josh)]

I mean, that makes sense. Definitely.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah. And you. And you can look up the data yourself, look up sleep deprivation and injury risk.

[Justin Andrews]

We've done quite a few episodes. I don't know if you've listened how many. Okay. Hopefully you've heard some of them, but we've done a lot of episodes talking about.

[Adam Schafer]

But you, I mean, you, if you know you have a hormone doctor, you can, hey, can I need work with a sleep expert and they'll refer you.

[Caller 1 (Josh)]

Oh, that's a good one. I got a little notebook here.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. There are medical professionals that understand sleep. So have them refer you to a sleep expert. They'll do a sleep test. You probably have to wear something to go to sleep. And they'll test you for things like apnea and they'll just take you. Go ahead.

[Caller 1 (Josh)]

A few months ago I, you know, I started putting what is, I forget what it's called, but basically on your phone, you can brain fm, put a wine, a wind down mode and it, it puts into night mode and stuff. So it blocks certain notifications. So it basically tells me when to go to bed.

[Justin Andrews]

Like.

[Caller 1 (Josh)]

Okay, yeah, well, trying to do that.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah. But you know, okay, you're a volunteer firefighter. Your house is ablaze, and what you're doing with your phone is you're taking a cup of water and storing it.

[Justin Andrews]

Squirt gun. You got a squirt guide.

[Adam Schafer]

This is gonna be an overhaul. It's gonna be a total overhaul. And it's gonna be some big changes, but it's gonna change your entire life. It's gonna change everything.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah, it's worth it, Josh. Oh, I believe it. Yeah. I'd love to hold you accountable to it too. Or I'd like to hear back from you in a couple months, you know, like 90 days.

[Adam Schafer]

You wanna do that?

[Justin Andrews]

I'd like to hear, I'd like to hear from you what you've got set up progress. Yeah, because I, I, you know, there's a lot of other people that are in a similar boat that just aren't taking the leap either. And I'd like to hold you accountable to go do it, because I think, I think it will make an incredible impact and hopefully that'll inspire somebody else to take the same steps.

[Adam Schafer]

Here's the deal, Josh. Military, law enforcement, you know, what they taught you to do is what you've been doing for a long time. And this might even be part of your nature.

[Doug]

Endured it and worked through it.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah, you're just like, I'm just gonna trudge through and keep moving. You're used to it now. It's been since high school. You've had shitty sleep and you're just going. And you're going to the point where you don't even realize how bad it is. You know it's bad, but you don't really realize until you peek out from under the clouds and you'll be like, oh, my God. Whoa. This is way different. Your hormones are affected, your immune system's affected, your cognitive function's affected, your heart is affected, everything. Your liver is affected, your muscle, your. Everything. So. Especially for that long. So it's a big, big deal. And you're not going to know how big of a deal it is until you start to come out of it.

[Doug]

And there's so many unrealized gains. Once you.

[Adam Schafer]

Oh, God.

[Doug]

Tap into that, you have no idea. Yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah.

[Caller 1 (Josh)]

At first I didn't believe it, but listening to you guys and doing a little bit of research and reading on my own, it makes sense.

[Doug]

Yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah.

[Caller 1 (Josh)]

Like you said, the data's out there and doesn't lie.

[Adam Schafer]

Trust us.

[Justin Andrews]

Yep.

[Adam Schafer]

Yep. Trust the process.

[Justin Andrews]

I want you to follow back up, Josh.

[Doug]

I want you to get there.

[Justin Andrews]

I want you to follow back up. Like, 90 days. 90 days. Okay. 90 days.

[Adam Schafer]

Have you back on the show.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah. 90 days. I want to hear back from you and hear. Hear where we're at.

[Caller 1 (Josh)]

Okay. Yeah, we can do that.

[Adam Schafer]

All right.

[Justin Andrews]

All right, brother.

[Adam Schafer]

Thanks for calling in.

[Justin Andrews]

Yep.

[Doug]

All right.

[Caller 1 (Josh)]

Thanks, guys.

[Adam Schafer]

Enjoy your day.

[Doug]

You got it.

[Adam Schafer]

I hope he listens.

[Justin Andrews]

I hope so, too. That's why. That's why I wanted to put it on him.

[Doug]

I know.

[Justin Andrews]

Because I'm like, I'm gonna call you, bro. I feel like. I feel like you're gonna hang out and be like, I ain't doing that. Of course.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah.

[Doug]

Just sleep. No, that's everything. Literally, it's everything. Like every. Like how your body just regenerates and it. Dude. Recovers hormone balances, everything.

[Justin Andrews]

The hardest part is what Sal said, though, is that when you've been in it for that long, you don't even know how bad.

[Adam Schafer]

No, you're just. You're just a zombie moving forward.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah. I don't know how many people I've talked to. Here's an idea where I'm trying to help somebody. Like, I was just literally this last weekend, I was talking to my boy, and this was actually more hormone related than it was sleep related. And he's like, oh, I'm fine. I'm like, your fine is not good.

[Doug]

You have just learned what it feels like.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah. You've adapted to that. That's how amazing. Our bodies are so resilient. Right. They're so resilient. And so it does a really good job of figuring out how to survive off of whatever you provide or give it. But it does not mean you're good. And you don't know it's good until you get good. And then you go, oh, I was really bad. And that's kind of like what happens when you talk to somebody who's been chronically underslept.

[Adam Schafer]

I knew it.

[Justin Andrews]

Right?

[Adam Schafer]

I knew it right away because he's.

[Doug]

Getting injuries like that. I was like, wait, there's no real reason.

[Adam Schafer]

No. He listed all his injuries. Autoimmune issues. I look at his question, I see his background. You could see it in his face. He's chronically poor sleep. Chronic since high school. So it's been years. And that. I mean, listen, they will. You have changes to your brain within a short period of time over those. That many years. He's like in a cloud. He doesn't even realize. And it's. It is not just useless to try to do different workouts. It's actually detrimental. It's actually bad for him to try and do different workouts. That's how bad it is. With that kind of negative.

[Doug]

It's crazy.

[Sal DiStefano]

Our next caller is Valerie from Arizona.

[Adam Schafer]

What's up, Valerie?

[Caller 3 (Valerie)]

Hi, how are you guys?

[Doug]

Hey, what's up?

[Caller 3 (Valerie)]

Sorry, I think it's a little quiet.

[Adam Schafer]

There you go. No, we see you.

[Caller 3 (Valerie)]

Okay. Awesome.

[Caller 4 (Sadie)]

How are you?

[Justin Andrews]

Good.

[Doug]

I'm doing great.

[Adam Schafer]

Good.

[Caller 3 (Valerie)]

So I have a question about weightlifting for calisthenics and mobility. I have many fitness goals and ultimately want to get stronger and more mobile to be able to achieve calisthenics skills such as levers, handstands, pull ups, muscle ups, et cetera. I feel pretty weak overall, and my mobility is definitely not there to be able to do skills like the pistol squats and dragon squats. So how can I train to gain more muscle and mobility and be able to work on these skills? I know that practicing the skills and the different progressions is really the way to achieve these skills, but how can I help my body along to seal real progress and strength in skills? I'm 31. I've been an athlete my entire life, but was never the most flexible. So it's been hard to gain more of that flexibility and mobility as an adult.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah, good question. You're right. There's nothing is better than taking those movements and regressing them down to something that you can practice and then slowly progressing up to the skills you're looking for. Okay, okay. Nothing will come close to that. Now when it comes to strength training, you can do basic lifts that will contribute to some strength, but they're not going to come close to replacing the regressions. In fact, 95% of what you should do, if that's your goal, if that's your main goal, you're like, look, I want to be able to do levers and handstands and muscle ups. 95% of what you should do is regressed versions of those and practice them free.

[Justin Andrews]

Now, that being said, if I saw you attempt a pistol squat, there is a possibility that, I mean, can you go, can you sit ass to grass with both feet on the ground? Can you do that?

[Caller 3 (Valerie)]

Not yet. And it's taken probably eight months to even get like below 90.

[Justin Andrews]

Okay.

[Caller 3 (Valerie)]

That's never been like a strong suit at all. And growing up, like I played volleyball my entire life and when we did weightlifting in college and stuff, it was never that deep into mobility like it was, but it was a lot more shoulder focused. But I still feel like I've lost them where I've never really gotten that mobility still.

[Justin Andrews]

So, so then, so the thing that I would do with you is so it's more, it's most likely your ankle mobility is probably what's limited. And so working on the ankle mobility and in conjunction with practicing this Bristol squat. So it'd be like you and I would warm up and we would do a real good combat stretch. And then I'd use like a band or like a suspension trainer to assist your body weight. And we would work on the depth to where you can get all the way down comfortably and then come back up. And that's what the, that's what a regression would look like. But it also would be mobility focus would be what's your limiting factor of why you can't do the full range of motion calisthenic movement you're trying to do, addressing that mobility thing and then doing the thing to the, the greatest depth that you can and assisting you if I need to, to. And that, that's going to get you there faster than anything else you going. And bilateral squatting 200 pounds is not going to help your pistol squat.

[Doug]

Yeah. Although I do find if, if we were to structure like you're still working on the foundational type lifts like your squats, like your overhead press and you know, all these, these main lifts. But range of motion is the issue. That's what I would work on and tailor back a lot of the load so we, we get down into depth in terms of your squat. But now we hold and we, we get, we take an isometric Pause, squat. And we, we incrementally work our way down in terms of like the angle of that and then also too, in conjunction with that in the days in between working the skills. And so you're working on your body weight skills with your pistol squats or, you know, working with the rings or, or even obviously these types of tools, like props with like the TRX straps or, or the Olympic rings are going to be very helpful with those other goals. But yeah, for, for getting into. To new ranges of motion, we have to incrementally, really strategically work on that and recruit and hold those positions and recruit in those positions. So even more so than just the mobility of it, we have to work on the strength in that range.

[Adam Schafer]

You know. You know what's really cool too about flexibility and mobility, Valerie, is you can. There is a way to dramatically improve and increase the speed which you gain mobility and in particular flexibility, and that is to practice it all day. So what that would look like is, let's say you're at work and you're sitting. Sit in a way to where you feel a light passive stretch on an area that you want more flexible. And so you're just sitting there while you're working, while you're. And you're kind of stretching. You don't need to push it to where you can't work. But like, you know, you can sit in a way that stretches your hip or your hamstring or your calf or a shoulder and then switch sides and all day long find ways to do these really light stretches and movements throughout the entire day. Like, sitting on the floor is a good example of something like this. You'll gain flexibility very quickly in comparison to other methods by doing it that way.

[Caller 3 (Valerie)]

Okay. So I do some of that already, especially, yeah. Sitting at work. I try to do a lot of hip and I do have a standing desk, so I try to like go up and down, sit to stand. So I'm not constantly sitting for hours. It's a mildly active job. Like, I'm a nurse, so I move around a lot. But yeah, and I've done some of the mobility stuff you talked about, like with the like TRX straps or whatever, suspension stuff. But I don't know. I did that for a couple of months, but I don't feel like I moved anywhere.

[Adam Schafer]

Where do you, where do you feel most of your tightness.

[Doug]

Really?

[Caller 3 (Valerie)]

I think it is ankles.

[Adam Schafer]

Okay.

[Caller 3 (Valerie)]

Yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

Okay. Before you go to bed for 10 minutes, do some really long static stretches in combat position.

[Caller 3 (Valerie)]

Okay.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah.

[Caller 3 (Valerie)]

I've been doing the combat a few times a week before I warm up.

[Adam Schafer]

Every night. Every night before you go to bed. And this is what it looks like. So when you do it as a mobility warmup, it's active. If you do it as a static stretch, this is what it looks like. You get into the position and hold the stretch and breathe and relax. You're going to go to bed, so you want to calm everything down and literally do five minutes on one foot, five minutes on the other foot. It's a long hold.

[Justin Andrews]

Val, how long did you play volleyball for?

[Caller 3 (Valerie)]

Well, I still play, so for 21 years. I started when I was 10, so.

[Justin Andrews]

So understand that that doesn't help this, right. The position you. And you know, your stance that you get ready in, right. It's like you're not even at fully 90 degrees. Your hips are back, your chest is forward. So you've gotten really strong and explosive from that. So your body's very comfortable and very strong in that position. And you were. We're trying to reverse a little bit of. Of that work by working in a greater depth. It's going to take time. And the longer someone's gotten really strong in that shortened range of motion like you have, the more difficult is. Had you never played volleyball, it would be easier for me to get you to there than it would be with. You have done that your whole life. And so I've got you. So that's part of why it feels like that. It's. You can do it, but just think about the amount of reps that you've put into volleyball. We need to start putting that amount of reps into that ankle mobility. You've got to think about it all the time. I mean, there. You can't. You can't do it too much throughout the day. That every time you can get down in that combat stretch, get down in that combat stretch, even if it's just for a minute, the frequency of you doing it is going to be the key to you gaining that newfound range of motion. But you, I mean, you've. You've played volleyball for a long time in that, in that tight, short position, and you're strong in it, which makes it even harder. So keep that in mind.

[Doug]

Yeah. And in terms of the muscle up, the biggest limiter is depth in that. That dip position. So that's something I would. I would chronically work. Work towards in terms of like getting strong in the lowest position possible and grinding your way back up through that. And that'll. That'll help substantially with as you're going to, to switch and, and, and lean forward and get more of that chest involved to press your way back.

[Adam Schafer]

Can you do pull ups?

[Caller 3 (Valerie)]

No, I can't yet. Last summer I was close to one pull up because I started this probably about a year ago when I really wanted to do more of the body weight stuff. But then I had kind of a wrist injury. So I haven't really done handstands for like seven months or something like that. So it's been a little bit limiting and like trying to work on grip strength and kind of rehab my wrist for a while because it gets better and worse. Better and worse.

[Adam Schafer]

Are you tall because you play volleyball? How tall are you?

[Caller 3 (Valerie)]

I'm 57 but I have legs and arms like I'm 5 10. So very short upper body and long legs.

[Adam Schafer]

That's going to make it a lot harder for you to do a muscle.

[Justin Andrews]

Up and harder for ankle mobility too. Those are both.

[Doug]

These are the big goals. I mean it's cool but yeah, it's going to take a lot of time.

[Adam Schafer]

It's great. It's great to work up to. So for now I would get good at pull ups and you can start with a negative. So get yourself up at the top and control the, the descent is a good regression.

[Justin Andrews]

It's going to be a hell of accomplishment when you do it. Just so you know, that's a good, that's a really good goal. But you definitely shouldn't be discouraged if it's taking a long time and you see other people because you're not built for it and you played a sport. That's not helping. So the fact that you did those things and that you're working towards it I think is an awesome goal for you. But don't get discouraged because how long it's taking because that's a, that is a big goal for, for your, your body type. What you played sports wise for a long time. Even if you had a ideal body type for that and didn't play that, it would be a good hard. Still hard. You're trying to do one of the harder things for your body type and what you played for a long time.

[Adam Schafer]

People that do muscle ups really easier. Typically tiny with skinny legs. Yeah, yeah.

[Doug]

Weigh nothing.

[Justin Andrews]

It's a good goal. Don't get discouraged.

[Adam Schafer]

No, don't.

[Justin Andrews]

Yep.

[Caller 3 (Valerie)]

Thank you.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah.

[Caller 3 (Valerie)]

I appreciate it.

[Adam Schafer]

Thanks for calling in Valley.

[Caller 3 (Valerie)]

Yeah, of course. Have a good day guys.

[Adam Schafer]

I like her goals because they're all performance based.

[Doug]

Yeah, yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

It's all performance and it's gonna stretch her because that's skill and performance. Those are hard.

[Adam Schafer]

Oh, yeah, those are.

[Justin Andrews]

Those are real hard.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah. But I had to ask her, you know, how tall she was and stuff, because, you know, especially. Especially girls that could do muscle ups are typically tiny gymnasts. Yeah, it's naughty. And you got long arms, tall.

[Doug]

And they started real young too, so the amount of time and volume like it took for them to really get strong and stable in a lot of those positions is.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah, but you got to be able to do like 10 pull ups before you do a muscle up, in my opinion. So, you know, start there.

[Justin Andrews]

Yep.

[Adam Schafer]

Because otherwise you're not going to get the speed to get.

[Doug]

No, dude.

[Sal DiStefano]

Our next caller is Sadie from Florida.

[Adam Schafer]

Hi, Sadie.

[Justin Andrews]

How you doing, Sadie?

[Doug]

Good morning.

[Caller 4 (Sadie)]

Oh my gosh, this is so cool. I'm so excited right now.

[Justin Andrews]

Good to meet you.

[Adam Schafer]

How can we help you?

[Caller 4 (Sadie)]

Yes. So I was calling in with a question regarding bone density after extreme weight loss. So if I can just read the email I sent you.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah, do that.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah, that's probably best.

[Doug]

Sure. Catch us up.

[Caller 4 (Sadie)]

Okay, perfect. And this is kind of a lot, so sorry any fans, but I grew up pretty overweight. I'm 5 7, and my highest weight was around 200 pounds. I used food to comfort me and cope with a lot of trauma I faced at a young age. When I got into high school, I developed a pretty nasty eating disorder. And over the course of a year and a half, I lost about 120 pounds and became severely malnourished and underweight. When I finally reached out for help, my heart was beating. In the 20s, my organs were failing, and I didn't even have enough strength to stand up on my own. I got admitted into the ICU for a month, followed by two months of inpatient treatment to get me more mentally and physically stable. And while I was there, they gave me a grip strength test. And they told me I had the grip strength of an elderly woman. But I did not know, like, what that meant until I started listening to you guys, funny enough. Anyways, I was so lost when I reentered the real world. I only knew the extremes. How to lose weight fast and how to gain weight fast. I had no balance or understanding of true health. I was still underweight, under muscled, and scared to eat when I found you guys. Through listening to your podcast, I became comfortable eating more and doing some light strength training. But it was mostly isolation exercises via machines. As my body continues to heal, I'm becoming more concerned about the health of my bones because losing so much weight has Definitely taken a toll on them. So I started lifting heavier about six months ago after listening to you guys for about a year and a half at that point. I'm currently strength training 30 minutes, three to four times per week, full body. I rely heavily on the Smith machine for squats, deadlifts and bench press. And I still use a few other machines like glap pull downs, chest presses and rows. And after my lifts, I do incline walk for 20 to 30 minutes just for some low impact cardio. So I was wondering if I'm on the right track as far as.

[Justin Andrews]

You're doing incredible. You're doing really good right now.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

What a great comeback story. And your approach is awesome stadium. That's awesome.

[Adam Schafer]

I just want to compliment you. So you're young, right? You're 21.

[Caller 4 (Sadie)]

Yes, sir.

[Adam Schafer]

The courage you have to come on this podcast and to talk about and be so vulnerable and talk about your challenges and what you're doing. You're helping a lot of people.

[Justin Andrews]

I hope you reach some other people that are afraid to do something like this. It's incredible that you've turned, turn this around.

[Adam Schafer]

Like, great, great, great job. Excellent job. Have you had a bone scan that means so much? Yeah. No, no, you're doing great. Have you had a bone scan because you said you're concerned with bone health or is it just because you're just like, I need to focus on.

[Caller 4 (Sadie)]

Was just because I feel like I need to focus on it. Yeah. I haven't had a scan.

[Adam Schafer]

Okay. And. And it says in your question that you're eating about 2,000 calories a day.

[Caller 4 (Sadie)]

Yes. And then probably around like 160 to 180 grams of protein.

[Justin Andrews]

Doing great.

[Adam Schafer]

And you're, and you're. Are you tracking or is this a rough estimate?

[Caller 4 (Sadie)]

So I was tracking for a couple of months, but then it kind of turned into like a mind game. So put it on the back burner. But from the eating disorder stuff, I have a pretty good idea of like abortions and whatnot, so.

[Adam Schafer]

Good answer.

[Caller 4 (Sadie)]

I'm making sure I'm eating enough.

[Adam Schafer]

You're in the right place. And are you working, Are you working with anybody through all the challenges that led to that? Are you working with therapists or anything like that?

[Caller 4 (Sadie)]

Oh yeah. I have a therapist and a psychiatrist that I see pretty regularly. So they're helping me so much with the mental side of things. And then Yalls podcast, like, I can't emphasize this enough. I truly believe it saved my life. Like I don't know if I would Be here right now if I didn't. If you guys weren't so encouraging when it comes to women fueling properly and, like, the importance of muscle. And I don't know, y'all just really transformed my life and.

[Justin Andrews]

So proud of you. So proud of you.

[Adam Schafer]

You're doing a really good job. Are you. Do you. Do you. Do you work right now? Are you in school?

[Caller 4 (Sadie)]

I'm working right now. I had to leave college because of all that stuff, but I work two days a week, so just.

[Justin Andrews]

Are you in our private forum yet?

[Caller 4 (Sadie)]

I'm not.

[Justin Andrews]

No. I'm going to have Doug put you in there so you can stay in touch with us. You got access to. You got it. You got access to us when you have any questions like this as you go. But I tell you what, you're.

[Doug]

You're big inspiration.

[Justin Andrews]

You're. You're kicking ass.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah. You know, do you have any. And do you like fitness? You ever think about coaching other people?

[Caller 4 (Sadie)]

It's funny you say that, Sal. Right now, I'm actually taking NASM's personal trainer.

[Adam Schafer]

I knew it.

[Doug]

Beautiful. Look at you. I knew it.

[Adam Schafer]

Something inside me told me that you would make an excellent people like you make such good coaches.

[Doug]

Such a great story.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah. We're going to put you in our trainer forum and also we'll get you in there and you can talk with our coaches and trainers and our team. And I think that would be a great career path for someone like you. I think it would be good for you and your health to help other people, but I think it'll also give you a tremendous sense of meaning and purpose because it's going to get all. It's. All the challenges you went through are going to have a lot of meaning and purpose.

[Doug]

You did it for a reason. Yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

Yes. Because it made you this incredible coach. It's really going to make you an incredible coach. If you have a passion for this, I really think it's a good idea.

[Caller 4 (Sadie)]

I do. Thank you so much. That means a lot to me.

[Justin Andrews]

Well, you're in the forums now. Stay close to us. Okay?

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah.

[Caller 4 (Sadie)]

All righty. I'll be reaching out.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah. And keep doing the strength training. Keep bumping your calories. Focus on getting strong and find some people that you can help yourself. Do it for free. It's going to help you, too. I think that's the best thing you could do.

[Justin Andrews]

Yep.

[Caller 4 (Sadie)]

Well, dude. Well, I appreciate you guys. Thank you so much.

[Adam Schafer]

You got it.

[Justin Andrews]

We'll see you in the forum.

[Adam Schafer]

Thanks, Sadie.

[Caller 4 (Sadie)]

Yes, sir. Bye.

[Justin Andrews]

Bye.

[Adam Schafer]

Bye. Bye.

[Justin Andrews]

What a badass story.

[Adam Schafer]

Yes.

[Doug]

Love it. I love it.

[Adam Schafer]

It. I love it. That's so, so encouraging to hear, especially a kid, 21.

[Doug]

She's, you know, she turned it around, man.

[Adam Schafer]

But I knew it. You know, I heard her talking like, I bet she's trying to be a trainer.

[Doug]

Yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

And if she's not, I was going to convince her because I think that would make such a great.

[Justin Andrews]

Oh, yeah. What a. What a. What a great. And, man, to have figured this out on her own, really. I know she credits listening to the podcast, but the fact that she. She's making all the right choices. You could tell there's a little bit of hesitancy here to tell us that the isolation exercises, but a person like that is great.

[Adam Schafer]

I don't care.

[Justin Andrews]

So that's a great introduction to get you going to.

[Adam Schafer]

She's applying resistance. Yes. And that's going to help build things.

[Justin Andrews]

One hundred and two thousand calories already. Like, she's in a good place, man. So she's good. She's going to get it all back. So totally. What a cool story.

[Sal DiStefano]

Our next caller is Phil from Colorado.

[Adam Schafer]

Hey, Phil.

[Doug]

What's happening, Phil?

[Justin Andrews]

How you doing?

[Caller 2 (Phil)]

What's up, guys? Fangirling real hard right now, so.

[Adam Schafer]

I'm.

[Caller 2 (Phil)]

Gonna have to just read what I wrote. Hopefully that's okay. Sorry if it's a bit long winded.

[Adam Schafer]

No, that's good.

[Caller 2 (Phil)]

So I started listening to mind pump in 2019 after the birth of my fifth child. I quickly drank the Kool Aid and was binge listening to episodes in past episodes while waiting for new ones to drop. I bought the RGB Super Bundle and attended the live event in Denver. I was in the private forum and I ended up purchasing suspension resistance anywhere 15 Prime Prime Pro. So I'm pretty stacked there. A little bit about me and admittedly super nervous to talk about this in such a public forum as I'm also currently in a job search. But I bought all the programs, listen to all your advice. But I was in a really bad place, both physically and emotionally. I was struggling with depression and alcohol abuse. As a result, I would start a program and quickly abandoned it. My drinking was out of control. And for the second time in 2024, I entered an inpatient treatment program. And actually as of today, I'm six months sober.

[Adam Schafer]

All right.

[Caller 2 (Phil)]

After leaving treatment, I started with Maps 15 just to get back in the gym. I'm currently in anabolic phase 2, starting with the pre phase. I'm 36 and I'm down to about 210 pounds from my height of 245 and depending on which scale I use in body or my home one, I'm around 25% body fat. I've seen significant improvements in my strength and overall volume each week. So now to my question. I'm currently consuming around 1700 calories, mostly from whole foods, generally in the 100 grams of protein range. However, I'm really struggling with appetite and wanting to boost those numbers. I've heard all you guys said about the importance of reverse dieting to achieve my goals for weight loss and strength, but I just am having trouble getting my appetite back. I've tried shakes and bars to boost my calorie intake and protein, but I still have no appetite or hunger. How can I change my body to want to eat and reverse dieting with the goal of still losing about another 25 pounds?

[Adam Schafer]

Good question. All right, so when appetite's low, there's a few places I'll typically look. So let's start with your current program. Which math program are you currently following?

[Caller 2 (Phil)]

Anabolic phase two. Just started that today.

[Adam Schafer]

Are you two or three days a week?

[Caller 2 (Phil)]

Generally two, but sometimes I fit a third in there.

[Adam Schafer]

Okay, good. Stick with two. How's your sleep?

[Caller 2 (Phil)]

Really good. Since getting sober, I'm roughly around seven, seven and a half hours. Pretty consistent. Wake up here and there, but fall right back asleep.

[Adam Schafer]

Okay, good. And stress?

[Caller 2 (Phil)]

Pretty high five. Kids will do that.

[Doug]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

Between jobs too.

[Caller 2 (Phil)]

So you know, that's, that's been difficult and then just everything that comes along with being in recovery.

[Adam Schafer]

Okay. And do you know what your vitamin D levels are at?

[Caller 2 (Phil)]

Not currently. I was taking a typical vitamin pack from the supplement companies, but now I've since stopped taking that.

[Adam Schafer]

Okay. I would start taking vitamin D again, making sure you get sunlight during the day. Really focus on sleep, maintain where you're at with the strength training and keep eating whole foods and your appetite will start to come back. One of the side effects of sobriety for some people is either they overeat or they undereat afterwards for whatever reason. You're only six months sober. I think you're doing okay. Now I can tell you to force feed so we can convince you to push and a little bit of that's okay. But what I don't want you to do is to make that like a thing where you gotta really force feed yourself. I think it's a good idea to add a shake. You know, if you're hitting about 100 grams of protein a day. I think a 40 gram protein shake would be A good idea. You can add that at the end of the night before you go to bed. There's nothing wrong with that. And then just stay the course. Just be, be patient, consistent. And as you get stronger appetite will start to slowly. Should start to slowly come back.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah, I'm not, I'm not pushing in this situation either. It's, there's, it's interesting. I don't know if I've ever met a guy or a friend of mine who was that had kids, multiple kids and between jobs that didn't stop eating. It's like, it's weird. It's almost like a thing that we all kind of naturally tend to do. Like, I don't know if it's innate in us or what, but it's like, it's like a common side effect of that type of stress. Like oh my God, all. And it's because it's just this low level all day you're probably thinking about it or even subconsciously it's on your mind and so you tend to lose the appetite. I think once that gets kind of resolved for you, I think maybe that's when, if I was your trainer, right, we were training, I'd be like, let's just keep doing what we're doing right now two times a week, keep heading the pace. When you are hungry, eat more. But let's, let's solve that. Once you feel good, get in a rhythm again with your job. Then we could start talking about like trying to push the calories a little bit. Right now I just think that pushing too hard might end up reverting back either to alcohol or reverting back to binging or that direction. And I'd be more worried about that than I would be like, you know, reverse dieting you an extra 200 calories more a day. Because even though that's good and you will long term want to do that where you're currently at right now, I would want to make sure you're good before as your trainer, I pushed you in that direction.

[Adam Schafer]

Like I said, a 40 gram prote shake is fine. Now do you mind if I, if I ask you some more kind of non fitness questions?

[Caller 2 (Phil)]

Yeah, absolutely.

[Adam Schafer]

Okay. So do you have a group of friends that you hang out with regularly or did that change after you stopped drinking?

[Caller 2 (Phil)]

Yeah, I'm pretty insulated as far as outside friends. I have a huge family, so it's, you know, family and kids and we all have kids so we all get together pretty regularly. Everybody's been super supportive.

[Doug]

Okay, good, good.

[Caller 2 (Phil)]

That Helped a lot. My closest friends are also my brother in laws, so it makes it easy.

[Adam Schafer]

Do you guys ever meet up just you and the guys, like, like once a week without kids, without wives and just talk about how to become better?

[Caller 2 (Phil)]

Not as often as I'd like, for sure. Busy schedules with all of us. But yeah, I mean it does happen, just not, not as often as I would like.

[Adam Schafer]

So I've been looking a lot into this just for, just personally, for personal reasons. And the data on this is really interesting. Men and women gained a tremendous amount of benefit from meeting weekly with, you know, women with women, men with men, and focusing on, you know, how to, how to become better at something. So like, okay, how do I become a better dad? How do I become a better husband? How do I become a better person? Men are notoriously terrible at this. We're so bad at this. Like, like, especially when as men get older, we just don't make friends, we just kind of stay on our lane and do our thing. I think that's a good idea for someone like you right now because you got rid of the alcohol. So you're probably challenged with dealing with things without having that, you know, that quick release. You know, if you could find a few guys that you meet with with the purpose of we're gonna meet once a week or maybe once every other week, could be twice a month. And the goal is let's see if we could just focus on becoming better. I've been looking into the data on that and it's profoundly beneficial. So I think that would help you a little bit with this journey of yours.

[Caller 2 (Phil)]

Yeah, I appreciate that. It's certainly difficult dealing with the loneliness and the change in environment. I think my biggest struggle wasn't necessarily the alcohol, but dealing with all of the depression and anxiety, emotional stress. So more rest, a symptom of a deeper cause there. But yeah, the connections are huge. And I agree. I mean, I know I feel better when I meet up totally.

[Adam Schafer]

And it's got to be a regular thing. That's what the data shows. If you need help looking for groups, typically local churches have men's group that moves that meet specifically for this reason. It's like, how do we become better type of deal. And again, I've been looking at the data on this and it is really, really good. So I think that would help you quite a bit. But as far as the workouts, two days a week, just do that walk every day. I think taking vitamin D is a good idea. And add the protein shake for now and Then let your body slowly improve its appetite.

[Caller 2 (Phil)]

Right. And I appreciate that. Do you mind if I ask a question? I've searched the AS mind pump, but I haven't really found anything.

[Doug]

Sure.

[Caller 2 (Phil)]

What are your thoughts on IV therapy and some of those systems, as far as I see them popping up all over the place, Is that beneficial? What are the.

[Justin Andrews]

Sure.

[Caller 2 (Phil)]

Like, how long does it last?

[Adam Schafer]

It depends. Yeah, it depends for what? Like, what are you looking for specifically?

[Caller 2 (Phil)]

Well, specifically, you like to address, like, vitamin deficiencies. Like you said, vitamin D, stuff like that. Are those boost packs gonna last long enough or is it something where it's kind of just a trend?

[Justin Andrews]

I mean, not a bad idea because it might give you some insight that you're deficient in stuff. Right. If you go do one of those, like, you know, B vitamin shots or the IV or whatever, and you afterwards, you walk out like, oh, my God, I feel amazing. Well, that might tell you, like, oh, you might be running low on some stuff.

[Adam Schafer]

I think what would be better would be to. If you're going to spend money on that would be to get a nutrient test to see what you're deficient in. Now, here's the deal with, with iv, there are some things that don't get absorbed well orally, and there are other things that get absorbed well, perfectly fine orally. So, like, it doesn't make sense to take to do an IV drip of vitamins. You could, you could just take orally that get absorbed well. Now, sometimes people have absorption issues, in which case an IV works really well. Like, some people have issues absorbing B12, they have gut issues or whatever, in which case the shot makes a big difference. Most people don't, though. Most people are fine. Vitamin D absorbs perfectly fine in capsule form. Glutathione might be a good idea if you're looking for liver support or something like that. Liposomal glutathione is okay. It just takes longer to work. But otherwise, except for specific applications, they tend to be overrated based off of whatever.

[Justin Andrews]

The biggest key from them is that it giving you insight on that you're probably deficient. Because if you did one of those things and it made you feel a.

[Adam Schafer]

B shot, you're like, whoa, I feel way better.

[Justin Andrews]

That's a big sign that, oh, I'm probably deficient somewhere versus, oh, this is something I need to do all the time. It's like that, don't let it do that. Like, if you go do it, it's not like, oh, I need to go buy this every so often. No, it's like that means you're deficient somewhere. That's why it felt so amazing right afterwards. Let's divv in. Let's dive into what you're deficient in and then fix that out via probably just a daily pill. And you're going to be fine.

[Caller 2 (Phil)]

Perfect.

[Justin Andrews]

Yep. Right on.

[Caller 2 (Phil)]

Thanks, guys.

[Adam Schafer]

You got it, man. Thanks for calling in.

[Doug]

All right, man.

[Caller 2 (Phil)]

Yeah, thanks, guys.

[Adam Schafer]

Have a great day.

[Justin Andrews]

Yep.

[Adam Schafer]

Take it easy.

[Justin Andrews]

I, you know, it's so is. Have you ever noticed that like every, every guy I've ever met that has a family that has gone through between jobs, job shifts, you shop, you stop eating. Like, it's almost like it's innate in you. Which makes sense. Right? Like if you go all the way back thousands of years when we were hunting and I all of a sudden couldn't find food, like, it's me who's gonna.

[Doug]

It's not a priority.

[Justin Andrews]

I'm. Yeah, I'm gonna ration it for me because I'm like, my kids need to eat, my wife needs to eat. Like, I need to keep her them. And it's like. And you just automatically lose weight and you're not eating and like that.

[Adam Schafer]

Short term, acute stress suppresses appetite. Long term, moderate stress especially increases appetite.

[Justin Andrews]

I actually think especially like that type of stress. Like, I think there's something, there's some sort of correlation with like providing for the family and like, you like, there's. It's every guy I know that has a family that has been through that always loses all kinds of weight.

[Adam Schafer]

And I asked him that question about friends because what happens sometimes when you become sober is the friends you hung out with. That's how you guys hang out.

[Doug]

Yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

And you don't have that social component anymore. So the data on that is like, you know, meet with people who are like minded regularly. It's really powerful for men. We are terrible at making friends and doing that.

[Justin Andrews]

It sounds like he's got a pretty good support group though, with his family and stuff like that.

[Adam Schafer]

But there's a difference between like, sure, sure, kids and like, sure.

[Justin Andrews]

But I think there's a. I think it's so profound for somebody who doesn't have any of that. Oh, even more, you take somebody who doesn't have family, doesn't have close friends, never does that. Then all of them, they start me. It's like, boom. Like this. It's like an unlock.

[Adam Schafer]

But you know what happens too? Sometimes you get in a pattern. You guys ever notice this where you're like, you have old friends, you don't see them for a while, you meet up with them again and you fall back into like, well, this is how it used to be. It's like this weird. Yeah. So it could be a challenge as well. But he's on the right path, dude. He's on the right path. And for people listening, you may be thinking on paper, forcing him to eat more would have been the right thing.

[Justin Andrews]

No, not right.

[Adam Schafer]

But no, it doesn't work that way. Now, if you like listening to Mind Pump, come find us on Instagram. Justin is at Mind Pump Justin, I'm mind pump. DiStefano Adams mindpump Adam thank you for.

[Sal DiStefano]

Listening to Mind Pump. If your goal is to build and shape your body, dramatically improve your health and energy, and maximize your overall performance, check out our discounted RGB super [e-mail] the RGB Super Bundle includes Maps, Anabolic Maps, Performance and Maps Aesthetic nine months of phased expert exercise programming designed by Sal, Adam and Justin to systematically transform the way your body looks, feels and performs with detailed workout blueprints and over 200 videos. The RGB Super Bundle is like having Sal, Adam and Justin as your own personal trainers, but at a fraction of the price. The RGB Super Bundle has a full 30 day money back guarantee and you can get it now. Plus other valuable free free [e-mail]. if you enjoy this show, please share the love by leaving us a five star rating and review on iTunes and by introducing Mindpump to your friends and family. We thank you for your support and until next time, this is Mind Pump.