2593: Six Weird Lifts That Make You Strong AF & More (Listener Coaching)

Summary

Mind Pump: Raw Fitness Truth - Episode 2593 Summary

Title: Six Weird Lifts That Make You Strong AF & More (Listener Coaching)
Release Date: May 9, 2025
Hosts: Sal DiStefano, Adam Schafer, Justin Andrews
Producer: Doug Egge

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Overview

In Episode 2593 of Mind Pump: Raw Fitness Truth, the hosts—Sal DiStefano, Adam Schafer, and Justin Andrews—delve into unconventional strength-building exercises that significantly enhance overall power and stability. Beyond discussing six unique lifts, the episode also explores the profound impact of sleep on fitness, shares an inspiring listener success story, and critiques misleading practices within the fitness industry.

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1. Six Weird Lifts That Make You Strong AF

The core of this episode revolves around six unconventional lifts that, when mastered, demonstrate exceptional strength and contribute to overall athletic performance. The hosts argue that these exercises, though rare in gyms, offer significant benefits beyond traditional lifts like bench presses or deadlifts.

a. One Arm Bent Press ([05:57] Sal DiStefano)

The One Arm Bent Press is highlighted as a testament to spine stability and core strength. Sal references strongman Eugene Sandow, who could perform this lift with nearly 300 pounds at a body weight of 185 pounds, long before modern supplements existed.

Sal DiStefano ([05:57]): "If I saw somebody doing any one of these lifts with good weight and control, I would consider that person just strong. Just overall strong."

b. Snatch Grip Deadlift ([09:26] Sal DiStefano)

The Snatch Grip Deadlift involves a wider grip and a lower starting position, akin to Olympic lifting techniques. This variation enhances trap activation and improves the traditional deadlift by encouraging a deeper squat stance.

Adam Schafer ([10:11]): "The carryover and being strong in that position just has so much value in your everyday movement."

c. Pistol Squat ([11:05] Sal DiStefano)

The Pistol Squat is a one-legged squat that demands significant ankle mobility, hip strength, and balance. Mastering this movement signifies impressive lower body control and unilateral strength.

Sal DiStefano ([11:05]): "This is one of the most impressive displays of control over your body."

d. One Arm Clean and Press ([12:31] Sal DiStefano)

Also known as the Circus Press, the One Arm Clean and Press combines explosive power with unilateral strength. Sal emphasizes its real-world applicability, likening it to tasks requiring the lifting and carrying of uneven objects.

Adam Schafer ([13:57]): "This is our favorite exercise because it takes care of a lot of stuff there is."

e. Turkish Get Up ([15:13] Sal DiStefano)

The Turkish Get Up is a full-body movement originating from Turkish wrestling traditions. It enhances whole-body strength, stability, and coordination, making it invaluable for athletes and everyday functionality.

Adam Schafer ([17:14]): "It's the most well-rounded movement of all the movements we talk about."

f. Dragon Flags ([17:58] Sal DiStefano)

Inspired by Bruce Lee and showcased in Rocky 4, Dragon Flags are intensive core exercises that develop unparalleled abdominal strength and overall core stability.

Sal DiStefano ([17:58]): "When I did these and got good at them, my core became so strong I felt bulletproof."

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2. The Critical Role of Sleep in Fitness ([19:38] - [26:20])

Transitioning from strength training, the hosts discuss a study revealing the severe impact of sleep deprivation on the body. A single night of poor sleep can decrease muscle protein synthesis by 20%, increase cortisol levels by 21%, and reduce testosterone by 24%.

Sal DiStefano ([19:38]): "One night of total sleep deprivation... Testosterone dropped by 24% in that same stuff."

Adam Schafer underscores sleep's paramount importance, likening its effect to foundational aspects of fitness, advising prioritizing sleep over meticulously tracking macros or training intensities.

Adam Schafer ([20:41]): "I don't care about macros until we solve how to get better sleep."

Additionally, Sal introduces intriguing findings on creatine, noting that a single high dose can enhance cognitive function even amidst sleep deprivation.

Sal DiStefano ([25:59]): "One dose of creatine improved memory processing speed and stabilized brain pH levels during sleep deprivation."

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3. Listener Coaching: Aaron Manke's Recovery Journey ([28:02] - [38:19])

A heartfelt segment features Aaron Manke, a listener who shares his journey to sobriety with nearly eight months clean, thanks to the support from Rock Recovery Center, a partner rehab facility.

Aaron recounts his struggle with alcohol addiction, the pivotal moment of clarity that spurred him to seek help, and the transformative role of fitness in his recovery.

Aaron Manke ([28:30]): "I probably wouldn't have [recovered] on my own, but with the help, I'm doing great right now."

Sal and Adam commend Aaron's progress, emphasizing the synergy between physical fitness and mental well-being in overcoming addiction.

Sal DiStefano ([36:14]): "Don't believe them [negative thoughts]. The truth is, you're here, you did it, you're moving forward."

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4. Critique of Misleading Fitness Practices ([38:19] - [58:54])

The hosts express frustration over misleading representations in the fitness industry, specifically criticizing fitness influencer Andy Elliott for poor role modeling and deceptive practices. They argue that such individuals prioritize superficial gains and attention over genuine health and fitness integrity.

Adam Schafer ([40:28]): "You couldn't be further from the representation of health and fitness, yet you think you do."

This segment extends to discussions about social media's role in perpetuating unrealistic standards and rewarding narcissistic behavior, highlighting the necessity for authenticity and integrity in fitness coaching.

Sal DiStefano ([46:32]): "Social media rewards the sociopathic narcissists because they're the ones that get the attention."

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5. Enhancing Trainer Effectiveness and Learning ([61:00] - [71:35])

Addressing listener questions, the hosts discuss the importance of continuous learning for trainers. They emphasize that effective training goes beyond scripted programs, involving real-time adjustments based on client feedback and psychological factors.

Sal comments on a forum post comparing ChatGPT-designed programs with Mind Pump’s Maps Performance:

Sal DiStefano ([51:03]): "ChatGPT nor Maps will ever outperform a good in-person trainer who can modify on the fly and consider all factors."

Adam reinforces this by explaining that trust and personalized coaching are irreplaceable aspects that automated programs cannot replicate.

Adam Schafer ([53:50]): "A good in-person trainer understands day-to-day nuances that automated programs cannot."

Furthermore, the hosts provide strategies for trainees transitioning to a healthy relationship with food after long-term macro counting, advocating for gradual changes and intuitive eating practices.

Sal DiStefano ([68:18]): "Eat very presently. Connect the dots with all the things that the food does for you aside from losing body fat or building muscle."

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6. Listener Recovery Tips and Final Thoughts ([71:58] - End)

In response to a listener struggling with returning to workouts post-illness, the hosts advise easing back into fitness routines gradually to prevent injury and facilitate muscle memory recovery.

Justin Andrews ([71:58]): "Do it slowly. Listen to your body."

The episode concludes with light-hearted banter about personal anecdotes and endorsements for partners like ButcherBox and Brain FM, maintaining an engaging and community-focused atmosphere.

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Conclusion

Episode 2593 of Mind Pump: Raw Fitness Truth offers a blend of unconventional strength training insights, the indispensable role of sleep in fitness, an inspirational recovery story, and a critical examination of prevalent fitness industry practices. The hosts effectively balance technical knowledge with personal experiences, providing listeners with actionable advice and a deeper understanding of holistic health.

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Notable Quotes:

• Sal DiStefano ([05:57]): "One night of total sleep deprivation... Testosterone dropped by 24% in that same stuff."

• Adam Schafer ([07:03]): "It's like bulletproofing your low back."

• Aaron Manke ([28:30]): "I'm more than happy to do so."

• Sal DiStefano ([46:32]): "Social media rewards the sociopathic narcissists because they're the ones that get the attention."

• Sal DiStefano ([51:03]): "ChatGPT nor Maps will ever outperform a good in-person trainer who can modify on the fly and consider all factors."

• Adam Schafer ([53:50]): "The trust factor... is what makes them [the programs] effective."

• Sal DiStefano ([68:18]): "Eat very presently. Connect the dots with all the things that the food does for you aside from losing body fat or building muscle."

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For more insights and in-depth discussions, visit mindpumppodcast.com and follow the hosts on Instagram @mindpumpmedia, @mindpumpsal, @mindpumpadam, @mindpumpjustin, & @mindpumpdoug.

Transcript

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[Sal DiStefano]

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Things dark and creepy of graveyards and monsters, haunted houses and spooky legends, then welcome to Lore. I'm Aaron Manke. For close to 10 years now I've been sharing history's darkest stories with millions of listeners around the world. Tune in each week as we explore the folklore, ghost tales and local legends that deliver the chills you're looking for. Learn more and subscribe today over at Lore Podcast. If you want to pump your body and expand your mind, there's only one place to go.

[Sal DiStefano]

Mind Pump. Mind Pump.

[Ryan Reynolds]

With your hosts Sal Destefano, Adam Schaefer.

[Sal DiStefano]

And Justin Andrews, you just found the most downloaded fitness, health and entertainment podcast. This is Mind Pump. Today's episode we answered listeners questions, people wrote in and we picked some of our favorites. But this was after our Intro was about 60 minutes long. In the intro we talk about fitness and diet studies and science around supplements. It's a good time. By the way, if you want to write in questions that we can pick from, go to Instagram indpumpmedia Now this episode is brought to you by some sponsors. The first one is Butcherbox. Today we talked about their ribs which are amazing by the way. If you go to butcherbox.com mindpump that link will get you two grass fed and finished filet mignons included in in every box that you sign up for for a year plus you'll get $20 off. Go check them out. This episode is also brought to you by Rock Recovery Center. This is a rehab facility that we we really love the owners, the people that run the facility. Today's episode you actually heard from somebody who won a scholarship and they're still giving them out. So if you go to rockrecoverycenter.com mindpump you can fill out an application, maybe get a 60 day scholarship for you or a loved one. Everybody can get a free consultation. So go there, ask questions. They'll Help you out. We really trust them. Also, we have a sale this month. Maps 15 performance and the RGB bundle. 50% off. If you want one of those programs or the Bundle, go to mapsfitnessproducts.com and then use the code MAY50 for the discount. Back to the show. Let's be honest here. Some lifts you should brag about, others not so much. We're going to talk about six weird lifts that literally mean you are strong. Af. I didn't say it. So. No. Let's start by saying there are definitely.

[Justin Andrews]

Leg press on you.

[Sal DiStefano]

There are def. Exactly. There are definitely lifts that I think elicit respect when you're strong at them. And then there's other lifts like, oh, cool, you can standing calf, raise the whole stack. Nobody cares.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah. Cool. Smith machine anything.

[Sal DiStefano]

Yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

So everybody knows the bench squat deadlift. Right. Which are all. Well, those are like the main powerlifting.

[Sal DiStefano]

Yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

That's where. And they compete. Which is why, I mean, aside from that, they have incredible value. And we talk about that. But I love this topic because these are ones that people wouldn't assume.

[Sal DiStefano]

Yep.

[Adam Schafer]

That I think we agree have tremendous value and should be focused on getting strong. And if you don't see it in the gym. No, there are. Most of these are super rare to see in the gym.

[Sal DiStefano]

Yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

Yet getting strong in them have incredible overall benefits. Should be a focus.

[Sal DiStefano]

I would add. If I saw somebody doing any one of these lifts with good weight and control, I would consider that person just strong. Just overall strong. You know, that that person has incredible. Just overall impressive strength. And again, Adam, you picked the common ones. Like, you see someone deadlifting and squatting a lot, maybe overhead pressing a lot or benching a lot. Like. Like, you know that person's strong more than if they were using a machine to do something. Right. Right. These lifts that we put down here, like, if you get good at these, you're just a strong human being and it means a lot for your entire body. In fact, what you'll see is carryover into other lifts by getting good at these lifts. And they're weird because nobody does them, although I think people should do them. And they are very challenging to do.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah. And it's. I mean, that's the thing is it takes. It takes a lot of stability and mobility to even get into the position for a lot of these movements. And it takes you outside of that. That condition. I. I just. I work at a desk job. I'm. Everything is kind of fixed. And so to. To move outside of that takes a Lot of actual work just to get into that.

[Adam Schafer]

And a lot of these are really old time movements that at one time they were a popular thing or they were something that people would do to show impressive strength.

[Sal DiStefano]

Back when a strong looking physique really was. What was important about it was it meant you were strong. It wasn't just about you look a particular way. Like back in the day, strength athletes, strong men, strong women, like the fact that they looked strong was a side effect. Like what could you actually do? In fact, some of the most impressive strongmen were people who were like small or didn't look strong, like the mighty Adam. Like some of the feats of strength that he did, it was impressive because he would get these much bigger dudes on stage, even attempt what he could do, and they just simply couldn't. So we'll start with the first one. This is an old timey exercise, but man, you're good at this. Like, you just have incredible spine stability and strength in your core, your obliques, your arm, your shoulder. It's just, you're just a strong human being. That's the one arm bent press.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah.

[Sal DiStefano]

This one is. This was one of the primary ways that strongman used to compete with each other is how much could you lift with one arm above your head. And the bent press was the technique that they used because they found this to be the best technique to lift the most weight. This was. Eugene Sandow at one point was able to do close to 300 pounds.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah.

[Sal DiStefano]

With this lift at a body weight of 185 pounds. By the way, this is before, forget steroids, this is before supplements, this is before creatine, this is before protein powders.

[Justin Andrews]

One of the most uncomfortable lifts too.

[Sal DiStefano]

Yes.

[Justin Andrews]

And just to be able to bend in that direction and place load properly. It's such a technical lift to be able to pull off. But once you actually work into these positions, you find that distribution of force is so advantageous for lifting even more weight. So anything overhead, to be able to actually bend in that position and use gravity and really lock out as you're, you're distributing that force down throughout your entire torso and connected to the hip, it's. It's pretty cool.

[Adam Schafer]

Now communicating this to what comes to mind for you guys. I know what comes to mind for me is like clients that when I think of like weakness somewhere or common injuries and, and the ability to, to do this lift and to do it well and be strong in it. How does this help you? The average person, I want to communicate to them like Think about the, the stuff that you used to hear a lot.

[Sal DiStefano]

Back pain, shoulder pain.

[Adam Schafer]

Yes. You need Ql stuff right away. I think of Ql stuff.

[Sal DiStefano]

Strong obliques.

[Adam Schafer]

How often did you hear of Ql injuries or issues?

[Justin Andrews]

Especially deadlifters.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah. And, and I remember hearing that so often, it's like. And if you get good at this, you. It's like bulletproofing your low back.

[Sal DiStefano]

I feel like the quadratus lumborum is actually meant to be a very strong, very strong muscle. The problem is a lot of the back strengthening exercises use the Ql in a stabilization sense, but not really directly loading it. It's like a deadlift. My Ql is supporting the sides of my spine, but in the bent press, like my Ql has to hold on to my spine from. To prevent me from folding in half sideways.

[Adam Schafer]

Yes.

[Sal DiStefano]

And then the shoulder mobility with this, like this is a crazy range of motion. With the shoulder, you get strong. In the bent press, you'll develop bulletproof shoulders and cannonball shoulders.

[Justin Andrews]

Yes.

[Sal DiStefano]

One of the body parts that the old time strongmen would develop very well was their delts. If you go back and look at pictures of these guys, again, they weren't doing laterals and rear laterals and, and they weren't even training for round delts. But it was just a side effect. They had bodybuilder like delts because of this particular.

[Justin Andrews]

Everything was vertical. They weren't doing a lot of horizontal pressing.

[Sal DiStefano]

And so no. Bench press didn't exist.

[Justin Andrews]

No. To be able to get the weight from the ground up over your head was like the ultimate goal.

[Adam Schafer]

And back to your. The point with like the clients, like, you know, bulletproofing your shoulders, you think of the. I think of common areas that clients would injure is low back and shoulders. And so a movement that, you know, really strengthens and supports that. Right. You get that strong stability and range of motion in the shoulder. For the bent press, you get that with the low back and Ql stuff. Like, man, for the trainers that are listening, if this is a movement that you've never really practiced or become proficient in, the value of you learning this and then you teaching your average person who may not think that this is a movement from such a great movement for them to get stronger.

[Sal DiStefano]

Totally. Next up is the snatch grip deadlift. So this Olympic lifters will do this. They will do this because a lot of their lifts start in this position. And so literally it's a deadlift, but with a wide snatch grip, really wide grip, and you're getting low, you're getting low into a squat in order to deadlift this. And so talk about range of motion. This. I never trained this until I followed MAP Strong. This is in MAP Strong. And it had a huge carryover to my traditional deadlift because it started me in a lower position. And that wide grip, boy, that trap activation from this is just trap activation.

[Justin Andrews]

Lats getting there like it, it really does like put pressure even more so on your back and getting that low squat position, it's a totally different lift.

[Adam Schafer]

I also think that again I'm going to try tie this back to. You know why the average person gets just tremendous value from when I think about, you know, deadlifting an object. I mean I just went through moving my house and I thought about snap. I actually thought about snatch grip deadlifts as I was doing things. Because you don't always grab things in the perfect deadlift position. You know, a lot of times usually you don't, you don't. Right. You're usually deeper, you're, you're, you're grabbing something larger trying to move something. And so you know, putting yourself in the, of course the ability to do a standard deadlift, lots of value. But also be able to grab and get in a deeper position. Grabbing at a wider the carryover and being strong in that position just has so much value in your everyday movement.

[Sal DiStefano]

Next up. Go ahead.

[Justin Andrews]

Well, I was going to say we could have also replaced with like a rounded grip.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah.

[Sal DiStefano]

Oh, rounded back, lifted back lifting.

[Justin Andrews]

But yeah, same kind of a value.

[Sal DiStefano]

Yep. Next is the pistol squat. It's a one legged squat. Now the what's required to do a pistol squat besides being strong because it's a one legged squat. Squat is great ankle mobility because the knee does have to travel forward. You have to be able to sit up nice and upright and these, the other leg needs to be able to sit out straight in front of you as you squat down. This is a martial arts squat. A lot of martial artists will practice this and get good at this and a pistol squat's just difficult to do. But when you get good at these and you can add like if I see someone doing a pistol squat holding something heavy, I mean that's to me one of the most impressive.

[Adam Schafer]

It's impressive they can do this with their body weight. Yeah, I mean this is a, this is impressive if you can do, if you can do this on each side equally. Because that's another thing too is that you will typically find a major discrepancy between left and right on people. Somebody will be Able to do this movement maybe on one side, but then not the other. And so training yourself to be able to do both of the both sides equally. Just incredible strength and stability and mobility. Great hip strength and stability. Great ankle, hip or equal ankle strength and mobility. Just an overall incredible movement. And you can really develop if all you did, let's pretend you didn't have weights at all or access to them. Getting strong in a pistol squat will develop.

[Sal DiStefano]

This is the best hypertrophy, lower body exercise, body weight. Yeah, yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

It's a crazy display of control of your body.

[Sal DiStefano]

Totally.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah, totally.

[Sal DiStefano]

Next up, one of my favorite exercises, in fact I used to do this a lot when I was doing judo and jiu jitsu is a one arm clean and press. You could sometimes you'll call it a circus press.

[Adam Schafer]

I love this exercise.

[Sal DiStefano]

You know, doing a clean is a, it's a great exercise. Barbell cleans require a lot more skill than a dumbbell clean. And so what's the value of that? Well, the value is you don't have to spend as much time learning the technique. You can get into it quicker and get the explosive power benefits faster. Which is why I like it so much.

[Adam Schafer]

This again, real life stuff. It's so funny. As we're going through these, I didn't really think about this until we started going. I'm like, right away I'm like able to draw to like, I've been moving so much stuff. I'm like, oh yeah. This was when I did that. Like there was a point where I, I built these really heavy outdoor chairs that have like all the, the mechanism to spin and move. So they have all the metal really heavy like for what they are. And I had to carry them all the way across to the other side of my backyard. And so I had to rip them up off the ground, flip them up and then bounced them on my head. And I just thought like, this is totally like a clean and press up over my head. And the ability to do that with good strength and stability. Again, it seems like a silly exercise or unique in the gym, but when you think about how you're going to have to like, nothing looks like a perfect barbell or dumbbell. Like that's not a movement. Like there's no other movement that's closer to that in the gym that I've done than like a circus press, it's of doing that. Right.

[Justin Andrews]

It's the closest to like resembling hard labor.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

Right. So if you're like farmers is why, you know, it gets highlighted all how like farmer strength. It's. They're, they're picking up really heavy like odd shaped objects but they have to get off the ground, put it the truck or put it into the barn and you know, and all that requires like this, this crazy strength communication with the body to pull off.

[Sal DiStefano]

Yeah. This is a one arm clean impress will give you explosive power and both the posterior chain and in the shoulder which for athletic purposes super valuable.

[Adam Schafer]

There's and great core stability around something like this. I think that's the, the, the like kind of unintended consequence from being able to be, be good at this. Because if you can pull a decent amount of weight off the ground, clean it up to your shoulder and press over your head on one side and not the other, the, the core stability and core strength to get and again emulating real life. When you're out there trying to carry something or do something in, in real life, rarely ever you're gonna have the two even amounts of weight on, distribute on each side and be able to do it. It's like you're normally grabbing never super balanced. Never. It's. And so again speaking to the trainers, if you haven't become proficient at this to teach your clients tremendous value to getting good at this and teaching them this.

[Sal DiStefano]

Next up is the Turkish get up. Now this was an old, this is an old school exercise that Turkish wrestlers used to do that then became popular with MMA fighters for a reason. Being able to take, to be laying down, take something, extend your arm and stand up with it all the way up. Like obviously a grappler is going to benefit from having that kind of strength because you're grappling on the ground and maybe you need to stand up or move while there's weight on your body. There isn't a muscle that isn't involved in a proper Turkish get up. It requires whole body strength, but most importantly whole body stability. Isometric tension and stability is super involved in this. Like you get really. If I saw, if I see a guy doing this with a just a 50 pound dumbbell, let alone 100, I've seen people do with more than that. It's impressive. Regardless of what they look like. It's like man, that's a lot of weight.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah. And it's just like it requires such incredible focus and I think that the, the value of it too which is overlooked a lot when we do lifts in exercise. It's only a, you know, a few seconds at most.

[Adam Schafer]

Right.

[Justin Andrews]

To, to pull off that exercise and to stay tight and, and really under control. But the, I mean this exaggerates that totally. So you really have to stay under tens stress and, and pure focus and communication with your body to, to pull this off. Which is why I love it so much.

[Adam Schafer]

I mean this is. Of all the ones we're talking about, this is my favorite because I think this is the one that if you just did this and got really strong, this you take care of a lot of stuff there is. You gotta think about this all the way down to your ankles, to your hip, to your low back and core area, to your chest, to your shoulders, to your forearm. I mean every part of your body is have like you said and, and it's, and it's slowed down and exaggerated like you said. And so you have to like break this all the way like slowly and mechanically down and get proficient at it. And you're gonna be strong in all those areas like there. And so if you just.

[Justin Andrews]

All the angles matter.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah. And we always tell, we've talked about this before on the podcast as a trainer, a great like thing to have your. You never lose. Right. As a client I used to tell my, my advanced age clients like we always want to be able to get up off the ground. And so a good thing to practice is just the ability to get up off the ground with no hands. And that's just your body weight. This is how you progress that. Right. So it's like okay, you've, you can get up off the ground. Well how do you get proficient at that? The Turkish get up is the, the greatest example of getting proficient at getting up off the ground and everything that it requires and then getting strong in that area. I think it's the most well rounded movement of all the movements we talk about and, and would love to more people seeing more people doing it. You just don't see it that often in the gym.

[Sal DiStefano]

Now last is what I believe to be one of the greatest examples of just overall core strength. And I first saw Dragon Flags done on Bruce Lee movie. Yeah. And I remember which one it was. It might have been Enter the Dragon, but he was demonstrating this. And as a kid I was like whoa, look at that. And then I saw it again in Rocky 4. Of course bro Slee did it. Rocky did it. I'm going to get good at these. And when I did these and I got good at them, my strong, my, my core became so strong I felt bulletproof. My abs became blocks. And I felt like I could do anything with my core. Like every other core exercise was easy in comparison to this. Like you're able to do six good slow reps of this. Like, you're really strong. So this is, like, one of my favorite core exercises.

[Adam Schafer]

I mean, your. Your core is the most important muscle in your body besides your heart, and it's the foundation to all movements. And if there's a breakdown there, there's going to be a. Anywhere else down the kinetic chain. And so getting strong and like a dragonfly just. It just lays such a solid foundation for all other movements and pursuits from that. And so it is such a great exercise to get really good at. Probably one of the harder ones of everything we did to learn.

[Sal DiStefano]

Oh, yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

When I look at the list, I'm like, that's probably the toughest to get.

[Sal DiStefano]

Really? One of the hardest ones.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah, because it's. It's not just core. You have to stay super tense all the way to your toes. Your entire legs have to be tense and on fire and. And be able control that and. And reign that in. And. And. And so, yeah, it requires so much strength. Dude, it's awesome.

[Sal DiStefano]

Oh, it's huge. All right, so I. I found a study on, just to change gears here, on the effects of one bad night of sleep. You guys want to hear it?

[Adam Schafer]

Oh, yeah.

[Sal DiStefano]

One bad. Just to show you how important. And I don't want everybody to freak out.

[Justin Andrews]

Crap me out.

[Sal DiStefano]

Yeah, I don't want everybody to freak out, but, you know, because everybody has it. One night. You know, everybody has that bad night of sleep. It's not a big deal in that sense, but I think this is good because it kind of highlights the effects of sleep on the body and how important it is. And so you can add this up. Like, what if this happens on a regular basis? Like, what is that gonna look like? So I'm gonna pull it up here, but it's pretty remarkable just how. Here it is, just how much it affects the body. So one night of total sleep deprivation. Okay, so they took somebody with pretty intense, had him give him a real bad night of sleep. There was a reduction in muscle protein synthesis by almost 20%, and cortisol went up 21%. That was one night of bad sleep. One night of bad sleep just from doing that. Oh, by the way, Testosterone dropped by 24% in that same stuff.

[Adam Schafer]

You know, we had a caller recently. It was a really good call, and good question. And fitness lady, she'd been working out in pretty good shape, but trying to get to the next level. And, you know, we were talking about. And sleep was her big Achilles heel. And then she was Also asking questions around macros and protein intake and the strength protocol that she's running. And I thought it was a really good question for us to talk about because we haven't really had a lot of people where we, where we, I think, expanded on this. Of course we talk about the importance of sleep, but sleep is so important that you have somebody who's asking a question about body fat loss and macros and strength training, all those things. And my advice around it is derived from the result of the night of sleep than it is what's the best macros, what's the best meal, what's the. I don't care until we solve that's how powerful sleep is.

[Sal DiStefano]

So in other words, your diet, your exercise, everything at that point should be geared towards getting better sleep. That's going to give you the best results.

[Adam Schafer]

That was what I was trying to communicate to her was that I don't care. I mean, I, I know you hear us talk about this is how many grams of protein you should have for optimal building muscle. But that's not the lens that we're looking through when we're trying to get. Actually, in fact, what it looks like is try this meal that you eat, you know, and then tell me how you feel. And it's like, oh, that's really. That really helped. I got some of the best. Okay, let's move in that direction. Regardless if it's 50 grams of protein, 20 grams of protein, I don't care about that. I care more about that meal or those combination of foods resulted in a better night's sleep. And then the same thing goes for your strength training protocol. Yes, these may be the best movements to build muscle, and this is some of the best programming right here. But I notice when you scale back here or do this type of a workout, you get better sleep. Let's move in that direction.

[Sal DiStefano]

In other words, what's going to be better for muscle building may be static stretching, because that might put you asleep and not strengthen.

[Adam Schafer]

Right?

[Justin Andrews]

And that's hard for people in parasympathetic state.

[Adam Schafer]

It's hard for people to wrap their brain around that because we, we highlight diet and exercise so much. And it's obviously important, but that's how important sleep is and how detrimental it can be if everything else is all aligned. But that's out of whack. You're just spinning your wheels and so getting that aligned and yet having maybe a less perfect diet and routine. But great sleep many times will result in better results.

[Sal DiStefano]

Such a. So just so people Understand what a big deal it is. Every animal that we know of, definitely every mammal has to sleep. And if you believe in evolution, by now there would have been a. We would have evolved out of it because it's. You're asleep, you're not productive, you're not collecting resources, you're vulnerable, you're super vulnerable. And yet you have to do it. That's how important it is. You absolutely have to do it. In fact, I don't remember what the data was, but it was something like a few nights of total sleep deprivation. So no sleep increases your risk of psychosis, quadruples it. Like, like half the people who get no sleep for something like five days will experience psychosis.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah.

[Sal DiStefano]

So it'll make you go. In other words, you'll go crazy before you. You cannot drink water for that long and not die. But that long of not sleeping, you may actually kill yourself.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

Into your, your earlier example with the lady that called in, it's like anything she does that's a, normally a good habit to, to include, you know, exercising, you know, nutrition. Like if it's not centered around kind of bringing her into that parasympathetic, it's a negative result. It turns into this like exacerbating the problem, which is. You wouldn't even think about that because it's. This is a good thing to highlight and this is something I'm pursuing is, you know, establishing good fitness habits and I'm like still at least maintaining this. But if I'm not actually getting good sleep, it's just like it doesn't have the result it normally would.

[Adam Schafer]

So in. To give an example of what you're saying, it's like this. Her body needs say 130 grams of protein for optimal building muscle. And that's what we figured out her macros, let's just say for argument's sake. But we have found if she cuts out her eating by 6pm it dramatically improves her nights of rest. Because when she eats later, her digestive system, still going, keeps her up at night and it ruins some of her sleep. And it's six o' clock at night and she's under protein by 50 grams. She's way under her protein intake. I don't care.

[Sal DiStefano]

It's like you're still better.

[Adam Schafer]

You're so it's, it's. And she's going, should I take a protein shake? Because I could get a protein shake. No.

[Justin Andrews]

Interrupt your sleep.

[Adam Schafer]

No, no, it's past 6:00. We've already learned that keeping you Eating your last meal by six or earlier has profound benefits on your sleep. I know I tell you that you need to eat 130 grams and you're only at 70 today. So we're under eating protein today. I still don't want you to have that shake at 7 o' clock at night. Just hit your protein tank. That's an example of where the sleep takes the precedent over what we, the science says about macros and building muscle. And so getting that point across. I think more people need to understand that that's how valuable sleep is towards their results. That get. Because we do, we, we tend to focus on all the other things so much. Meanwhile it's like, oh yeah, I don't get good sleep. It's just, it's always been that way. And it's like, yeah, well your results would probably significantly improve if you cared as much about that as you do all the other things.

[Sal DiStefano]

Speaking of sleep, there's some studies that have been done on creatine. So creatine. And I've talked about these, right. Where sleep deprivation, some of the effects can be really negated by just taking creatine.

[Justin Andrews]

Oh, that's right. It has protective qualities.

[Sal DiStefano]

Well, not just protective. Here's what's trippy. So for the longest time, what did you understand about creatine? For you to start seeing results, you got to take it for how long? Typically like a week or two weeks. Okay. The studies are showing a single high dose of creatine. You'll get effects, just one dose. In fact, in this particular study, one dose of creatine improved memory processing speed and stabilizing brain ph levels during sleep deprivation. So peak effects were at four hours and lasted up to nine hours, even improving processing speed beyond non sleep conditions. In other words, they took people who were sleep deprived, gave them one dose of creatine, four hours later. They actually performed better at certain mental tasks than even people who weren't sleep deprived. So this is a great. Now I don't think this is a long term solution, but if you got like this meeting or a test or whatever and you had a bad night of sleep, take a few doses of creatine, time them. So it's roughly four hours before what you're going to do and you'll get a boost in brain function from doing that.

[Justin Andrews]

That's actually really cool.

[Sal DiStefano]

That is really cool.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah, yeah, super cool.

[Sal DiStefano]

That's really cool. Anyway, so we have somebody who's going to call in who went to Rock Recovery Center. So Rock Recovery center is a rehab Facility we're partners with. We love the guys that run it, Tom and Ben. We love their approach. We trust them. And so what we've done is we've talked about them and they offer scholarships to listeners. People can go on their website and apply for, you know, rehab or whatever. And Mark, who's about to come on, was one of the first people to respond. They took Mark in. He is now, I believe, almost nine months sober from alcohol. And this is like a check in where, you know, let's. Let's talk to him and see what's going on. How's it going, man?

[Aaron Manke]

Good. Doing really good.

[Adam Schafer]

You look good, dude.

[Sal DiStefano]

Yeah, good to see you, dude.

[Adam Schafer]

Good, bro.

[Aaron Manke]

Yeah, you too.

[Sal DiStefano]

Yeah, sorry. Give it. Give us an update.

[Adam Schafer]

How.

[Sal DiStefano]

How long are we in on this? What's the journey been like, my friend?

[Aaron Manke]

So tomorrow is actually going to be eight months.

[Sal DiStefano]

Wow, dude.

[Adam Schafer]

God, I can't remember how fast that flew.

[Aaron Manke]

Yeah, I really did. Sobriety date was September 1st is September 1st. Yeah. So, yeah, tomorrow's. Tomorrow's the eight month mark.

[Sal DiStefano]

That's great. And so you started back then you heard, you heard about them through us right on the show, and that's what got you in there.

[Aaron Manke]

Yeah. Yep. I. I've been. I started listening to mind pump in 2017, I believe, and it was pretty consistent. I actually started with the very first episode that was available on Spotify and eventually caught up to you guys. I wasn't listening as much at the time, but I was at work and I just needed something to throw on and that was. I picked a random episode and it was. Yeah, it was when you had Ben and Tom on.

[Sal DiStefano]

That's awesome.

[Adam Schafer]

Mark, how long, how long did it take for you to really start noticing, like a change in how you felt, how you were thinking and like, what were some of those early changes when you first went in?

[Aaron Manke]

Also, that was consistently almost daily. Early on, I felt better and better every day. I mean, it was bad physically. I mean, I couldn't even really eat. Early on. It was bad because it hurt. I was poisoning myself every single day. It got to the point where my body was rejecting stuff that it needed. So early on, that was the big stuff. Being able to eat normal again. Just the difference of being hydrated again was a huge difference. And then the, like, mentally, emotionally, spiritually, that kind of stuff, that. That happened over a course of months. I mean, honestly, I don't. I don't think that's done yet. I feel like I'm still hitting milestones just as far as How I feel in all those other aspects. Physically, I'm doing great right now, but. But, yeah, I'm regularly noticing that there's. There's differences, and I'm. I'm. It's. It's good. I feel good.

[Sal DiStefano]

That's so awesome. What final. What. What was the final straw? What was it that made you make the decision finally to go to. Because we know you chose Rock Recovery because you heard about them through us, but what was it that made you go like, I need. I need to get some help.

[Aaron Manke]

I had a moment of clarity. I really looked at my situation and the direction I was going, and it occurred to me that that was gonna be it there. I was either gonna end up quitting on my own, I was gonna end up in prison, or I was gonna end up in the ground. And that those were the. Those were the only finish lines I could see and.

[Sal DiStefano]

Was.

[Aaron Manke]

It was scary. That was a really, really scary realization to have. And even then, that wasn't enough. I mean, I listened to the episode that you had where you had Ben and Tom on probably four or five times. I emailed Rock Recovery and heard back from them. I was offered the slot here, and even then, it took my family. It took four or five really close friends of mine to give me the push I needed to commit to it, even after that realization, because it was. It's a big step. It's a scary thing. It's.

[Sal DiStefano]

It's.

[Aaron Manke]

It requires humility to get to the point where you can openly admit that you need help and that you can't handle your situation anymore.

[Sal DiStefano]

Is there a way? If somebody's watching right now, let's say there's somebody that was like you. They're struggling with addiction. For somebody on the outside, when they look in, they see somebody who's, you know, destroying their life, destroying their body. They're in this crazy cycle, and yet they don't want to leave it because they're scared. What is that? What is that fear? What is it that that holds you in that makes it so scary to leave that situation? Even though on the outside it looks like the obvious thing is to stop. What do you think it is that holds you in that?

[Aaron Manke]

Honestly, the biggest thing was I. For me, I felt like I had dug the hole too deep. I have something that I've heard a lot since I've been here is if you find that you've dug yourself into a hole, the first thing you need to do is stop digging. And I felt like I kind of had stopped digging to some degree, but I really felt like it was just too deep and that I wasn't gonna get out of it. And honestly, I probably wouldn't have on my own, but I wasn't sure if I could get there even. Even with the help it was. And then on top of that, the humility of having to say, I need help with this. I cannot do this on my own. That's. There's. There's a lot of pride involved. There's ego involved. It's.

[Sal DiStefano]

It.

[Aaron Manke]

It requires a lot. It's. It's a big step just to get to that point where you can. You can accept the help.

[Adam Schafer]

Sure. Looking back at the. The eight months and all the things that you've had to do, I know there's a step. Process you go through. I know there's been support from Ben and them over there. Have there been certain things for you that, like, looking back, you go like, man, that. Thank God I had that, or that that's been, you know, pivotal to, you know, making it all the way through this. Are there certain things that you can. You can look back at and say, like, yeah, that. That I didn't realize how much that would help me?

[Aaron Manke]

Oh, absolutely.

[Justin Andrews]

So they.

[Aaron Manke]

They mentioned when they were on the podcast that they do take the health and fitness side of things here pretty seriously, and I was looking forward to that because it is something that I've been involved with to a pretty deep degree in different. Different times in my life. I did not realize how much that would play a role in how I felt while I was here. It's.

[Justin Andrews]

It is.

[Aaron Manke]

It. It's therapeutic. There's no other word for it. I physically felt better. I felt stronger. Hitting, hitting milestones on. On, like, my squat that I haven't hit in a couple of years. That was. It was motivating. It felt good. It affected how I felt about myself. It. I really underestimated how much that would play a role and how I felt.

[Sal DiStefano]

Yeah, I'd say. I'd say one of the different things that they do there versus other places is that they understand fitness on a different level, and it's a big part of what they do in the rehab process, wouldn't you say?

[Aaron Manke]

Oh, yeah, absolutely. They. So there were, like, group workouts that you're able to do a couple of times, I think three times a week, we were able to do if you wanted to. And then you have access to the gym. You have a free membership, or I had a free membership while I was here. So it's a lot of it. Is on you to take advantage of it, though. Like, it's. I've. You. It's. It's not. It's. It's not handed to you. You. You are given all the tools that you need and. And it's up to you to make the most of it. And honestly, the only, the only. Really, the only real regret that I have from being here is I. I know I could have done better with some of that and taken advantage of some more. Some more resources that were given to me. But, I mean, that's, you know, hindsight.

[Adam Schafer]

But there's also probably a really good reason for that, right? That they don't push it or force it on you. That you got to come to the. You got to come to the realization to want to do it. And yeah, it's more of an invitation, which I think there's. The psychology of that I think is so important. If you. It's like forcing somebody to do something, then eventually they're going to rebel and not want to do it. Versus, hey, here's these options for you. Hopefully you take advantage of them, and if you do, you do. And if you don't, you don't. And it's great. It's great to see, bro, how you literally look great. You look like you got 10 years younger. Your skin, your skin looks good. You're like, you.

[Sal DiStefano]

Great job, man.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah, you look healthier. You look happier. You have a glow. I mean, it's pretty cool to watch, you know, the transformation, man. So cool.

[Sal DiStefano]

And I will say, I will say, let me add this, dude, that one of the. One of the. The strategies of what depending on what you believe, the enemy or your flesh or your psyche is when you look back and you've done something great is for it to say you could have done more, you should have done better, to make you feel like crap again. And I'm going to tell you this right now, they're lies. Don't believe them. The truth is, you're here, you did it, you're moving forward. You're doing a great thing. Keep going.

[Aaron Manke]

Yeah. I appreciate it. Thank you. It has been a lot of single steps and there have been a couple of times where I've kind of turned around and looked at where I started and where I'm at, and I can't believe how it added up.

[Sal DiStefano]

It's.

[Aaron Manke]

It's thing. Things are going really well. I've got. Got myself under control. I've got my. My life is headed in a good direction. I landed a job doing something that I Never probably would have gotten into if I didn't come down here. And I love what I do. I'm rapping cars now.

[Adam Schafer]

Oh, wow. Dude, awesome.

[Sal DiStefano]

Great job, man. Well, I appreciate you sharing this with us, dude. This is, like, so great to hear, man. I'm so glad to hear that you're where you're at, brother.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah. I hope your story inspires somebody else that's listening right now.

[Aaron Manke]

Yeah, I do as well. And I wanted to put it out there, too. If. If anybody's considering coming down here and they do have questions, then I want to talk about it. I. I'm reachable. I can. I put my email out there if. If they want. If you guys want. It's Mark. M a r k dot mahan m a h o n 89 mail. If anybody has questions, anybody wants to talk about any of this, I'm. I'm more than happy to do so.

[Sal DiStefano]

I'm.

[Aaron Manke]

I'm. I was very skeptical. Skeptical coming into it, but I'm. I'm a huge supporter and proponent of. Of doing this.

[Sal DiStefano]

It's.

[Aaron Manke]

It was easily the best decision I've made.

[Sal DiStefano]

Great job, man.

[Adam Schafer]

Right on, Mark. Appreciate that, man.

[Sal DiStefano]

Brother.

[Aaron Manke]

Yeah, absolutely. Thank you.

[Adam Schafer]

All right, we'll be in touch.

[Sal DiStefano]

Take it easy.

[Aaron Manke]

Sounds good. Take care, guys.

[Adam Schafer]

Pretty cool. Great.

[Sal DiStefano]

I know. Way different.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah.

[Sal DiStefano]

Remarkable. I wanted to ask him what it was that prevented him from. Because from the outside, it's really easy to look at someone and go, just stop. Can't you see your health is deteriorating? You've destroyed your family, you've lost your job, whatever. Why don't you just stop? It's obviously much better. So it's always like, why don't people just stop? And he was very honest. He's like, I felt like I'd already dug too big of a hole. It was too far down.

[Justin Andrews]

It was in too deep.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah, I'm sure a lot of people feel like that where you've gotten so far, that it's. I mean, I feel this way. Way to bring it back to what we do with helping with people with health and fitness and losing weight. It's like, you.

[Sal DiStefano]

I've got so far to go.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah, you have so far to go. And then when you. When you actually kind of attempt making some good choices and the. The needle doesn't move or. Or even worse, sometimes goes the wrong way a little bit. Like, man, that's so discouraging for somebody. And it gives you the effort. Throw your hands up, like, why do this anymore? And so. So, yeah, no, my heart Always goes out to somebody who's battling with things like with addiction. And to be honest, again, drawing it back to fitness. It's not much different than this addiction that we have with food.

[Sal DiStefano]

Yes.

[Adam Schafer]

Is very, very similar and maybe even more insidious because we justify it that you need food.

[Sal DiStefano]

It's accepted.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah, it's way more accepted. And harder to see nobody's out there seeing you eat and going like, oh, you have a problem or an addiction. But clearly you do if you're carrying yourself 50, 60, 100 pounds overweight. But sometimes the hole feels so deep that it's so hard to get out.

[Sal DiStefano]

But I'm so glad to hear his success. It's so nice to hear, man.

[Adam Schafer]

Yes. Now they're doing great work over there, man.

[Sal DiStefano]

They're doing really good work. I want to. So there's, there's this, this clip that's kind of, you know, going viral a little bit in our space with some of our friends, like, you know, like coaches and trainers. And it's of a guy that is long annoyed us. We just haven't brought him up. But I think he's just terrible, just terrible. Representation of, of the fitness space. It's Andy Elliott and it's a clip with his daughters on stage.

[Adam Schafer]

Disgusting.

[Sal DiStefano]

And he's luckily, you know, I'm happy. I'm glad to see he's getting ripped for it because what are you doing? You know, he brings his daughters on stage. Show Everybody that you're six pack. She's nine is one nine, one is nine, one's 12. But he also just the way he, he's the same guy that would bring a dude up on stage and try to like motivate by lift up your shirt, you're fat, you know, type of deal.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah.

[Sal DiStefano]

What are you doing?

[Adam Schafer]

Such a douchebag.

[Sal DiStefano]

I know.

[Adam Schafer]

Listen, if you're a used car salesman, stick to selling cars, dude. It's like, I can't. This is what, what I don't like is that this. The guys that blend their profession with fitness, thinking they know what they're talking about when it comes to fitness. Like, you couldn't be further from the representation of health and fitness, yet you think you do and the approach is, is all wrong. It's ironic that he's. That's going viral right now because we just recently had a guest in the, in the, the studio that was telling us about their experience with them and how he owes him all kinds of money and how he scammed him and so, so, you know, it's like you know, we all had that. We, we'd seen his stuff going around and you said we didn't comment. We didn't really comment on anything before. But it's like, I feel like our, we have the gut instinct always with people.

[Sal DiStefano]

There's a lot of stuff happening in our space that's kind of like this. Like, I, I still get it.

[Adam Schafer]

We're cleaning out the trash a little bit, doesn't it?

[Sal DiStefano]

I hope, man. I hope so. Like, there's somebody, I just saw them today. I'm not going to say too much because people will put two and two together. But literally the video opens and he's got stacks of cash in front of him and he's teaching. I'm going to teach you how to be a. Build a business as a trainer. And look at all this money. What are you doing, dude? What kind of people are you trying to attract?

[Justin Andrews]

The lowest common denominator.

[Sal DiStefano]

Oh, God. It's like, like, it's so, like, plus, it's weird. It's like it's, I don't know, I think most people look at that and go, what are you doing? That kind of insecure, like, you know.

[Adam Schafer]

I mean, it really works on the young teenage boy, you know, but is that really the person who's investing that? I don't know.

[Sal DiStefano]

I don't know, dude. Yeah, it's frustrating.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah.

[Sal DiStefano]

I, I wouldn't want to work with someone.

[Adam Schafer]

I mean, I mean, it's this, there's this temptation to do that because of the attention. And we are in this attention economy where, where the platforms pay you for attention. You get the validation because of the attention. And so there's an allure to wanting to use tactics like that, you know, and so I think a lot of people fall prejudice. You. The thing that I, I, I feel so blessed that there's always been four of us to kind of counter each other. I mean, we've had, all of us have had ideas at times, and collectively we've all sat down. It's not really us or that is aligned with our core values. And even though we've, and you've, you've talked recently about, we, we kind of stepped away for a while and we, we reached out to somebody who was recommended to us, who did really, really well with the YouTube algorithm. And we thought, you know, are we being naive by not learning more here and hiring a professional who can teach us to be better with the algorithm? And if it's rooted in our desire to help more people, can it be a good thing? And we did that for like six months and guess what? We did see more views. The irony was we made less money.

[Sal DiStefano]

Because it was lower impact.

[Adam Schafer]

And that's exactly right. And it's like getting back to. And so for the entrepreneurs or people that are aspiring to be entrepreneurs out there, I can't stress enough how important it is to go about building your business the right way. And if you lead with truly trying to help people and serve others, you will be rewarded for that.

[Sal DiStefano]

Trust the purpose. Trust the purpose and the results will follow. That's what I like to tell trainers and coaches.

[Adam Schafer]

But you know, it's just like we.

[Sal DiStefano]

Coach clients, but it's real.

[Adam Schafer]

It's slower. Okay. It takes a longer time to build, but it's sustainable. But it is sustainable and it's a career. You won't be a flash in the pan. It's like this guy you brought bring up. It's only a matter of time before he's gone.

[Sal DiStefano]

Yeah, he's.

[Adam Schafer]

He. And he, he made his money. It's just like a lot of the, the MLM scam artist type people is like, they, and in this era, you, the swings are harder. So you do have this. They have an opportunity to fool a lot of people really fast. And, and they do things that go viral and get click, clickbait. Right. Like crazy. And so for a moment, you think they're really successful and they're a good example of somebody who's having a lot of success financially. But it only lasts so long. It's only a matter of time before you start hearing stories like we're hearing behind the scenes of like, oh yeah, he me over. Oh yeah, he me over.

[Justin Andrews]

Too many people at last are honorable with integrity.

[Adam Schafer]

That's right.

[Justin Andrews]

You know, and you see this a lot like even like your Andrew Tates of the world where they, they're badass, they're. They're a tough guy. They're something that a lot of these, like weaker guys look up to. And, and they want to aspire to something like that, but they don't have any honor.

[Sal DiStefano]

Yep.

[Justin Andrews]

And, and so it's not going to last. And, and you know, it, it's, it's unfortunate because that's what gets all the attention and all of the, the glitz and the glamour, but at the same time, you know, to, to, to aspire to, to be something more, to have true integrity and to, to have purpose that, that requires the longer path, the longer road.

[Adam Schafer]

Do you guys think that it's, it has a lot to do with just kind of the period of time that we're in right now. Like it's because these, these mediums that we, we communicate with and is so still new when you think about Facebook and Instagram, if maybe for somebody who's in their 20s or 30s, it feels like it's been around forever because for them it has, but it really hasn't. It's not that when and when you look back in, in our, our ability to communicate in to each other and reach each other, it really is not that. That old. It hasn't been around for a long time. And so, you know, do you think 10, 20 years from now we look back and we laugh. The time when. Oh yeah. I remember when guy people would do things like the put stacks of money in front of them and to get your attention, to get people to buy stuff from you and you know, rent the fake private plane and rent the fancy car.

[Justin Andrews]

And Jordan, we asked, certainly comical.

[Sal DiStefano]

We asked Jordan Peterson something related to this about social media. The problem is not. Not the problem. Is that so? Yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

Social media doesn't reflect reality.

[Sal DiStefano]

It doesn't. And what it does is it rewards the sociopathic narcissists because they're the ones that get the attention. In the real world they get their ass kicked or they would get excommunicated, but on social media they get a lot of attention.

[Adam Schafer]

What a good point to bring up which that, that. So your answer to me is that it probably won't change. Yeah, it probably won't change.

[Sal DiStefano]

No. What'll. Here's what. Okay, I'll give you an example.

[Justin Andrews]

Pressing like the animalistic human behavior but button that keeps you there.

[Sal DiStefano]

Here's what'll happen, right. For a second, the guy putting the stacks of money will work, but then everyone's gonna be like, wait a minute, that's fake. Looking authentic is real. So then the narcissist will go and pretend to be authentic and they'll still play that game.

[Adam Schafer]

Oh yeah.

[Sal DiStefano]

It's like you remember.

[Adam Schafer]

Well, you're seeing that already. Even with the example that you gave of that Andy Elliott clip is you have people that are virtue signaling that are calling it out, that are like. Well, you're kind of the same thing.

[Sal DiStefano]

Yeah, I know.

[Justin Andrews]

We do similar things.

[Sal DiStefano]

Yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

It's like, wait a second. Yeah, you're kind of that same guy when you think about it. And you run in circles with the same type of people.

[Justin Andrews]

And so you're trying to get ahead of it.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah, yeah. But you're trying to jump on the bandwagon of calling it out right now. Yeah, I mean, I, I, I've been saying this for a while now to people. This fake authenticity. You know what I'm saying? You know, grab your camera, pretend like you're crying. Or maybe you are crying, but you grab your.

[Sal DiStefano]

The hell does that. I just, I've never once thought to my, like, why I'm crying. Like, something actually makes me so sad that would make me cry. Wait, wait, let me get my phone.

[Justin Andrews]

You just have a distorted view.

[Sal DiStefano]

How does that happen? If I was crying and when you guys pulled out your phone to record me, that'd be the end of our.

[Adam Schafer]

That's right. I mean, I do, I do. Like, you need friends. I do. Like highlighting the people. And speaking of that, we just had our good buddy Jordan Syed here. Such a great person, right? Like, we need more people like him, like Joe DeFranco, you know, and there's a lot more that we've talked about before, but those two, bro.

[Sal DiStefano]

How funny was it, though, when you, you had us all over. Hold on a second.

[Adam Schafer]

So embarrassing.

[Sal DiStefano]

Dude. You had us all over your house for a barbecue and Jordan say it's Jewish, right? But you don't even think about this, right? And so you're, you're making your.

[Adam Schafer]

Getting down on my baby back ribs.

[Sal DiStefano]

Your butcher box ribs.

[Adam Schafer]

Yes, dude.

[Sal DiStefano]

You gave them to it. He's like, is there pork in this?

[Adam Schafer]

It just.

[Sal DiStefano]

Yeah, it's delicious.

[Adam Schafer]

So Doug and I had. For the audience, he had to wait forever for food.

[Justin Andrews]

Oh, man.

[Sal DiStefano]

Everybody was eating ribs. Poor George is eating salad over there.

[Adam Schafer]

So the audience knows Doug and I had originally planned to have had this cook off. And we, and we had Jordan Sigh. And Dr. Brink in town. It was like, oh, this will be fun. We'll have it at my place. Well, barbecue Doug and I. Yeah. Doug will get down with one of his recipes. I'll get down with mine. I do the butcher box baby ribs. I've got it down to a science, at least I think. And so, you know, I'm like, oh, this would be good. Never once did it even cross my mind, like, oh, I wonder if Jordan eats pork. I should probably consider that. You know what I'm saying?

[Sal DiStefano]

Did you offer it to him, like, twice?

[Adam Schafer]

Oh, yeah. No, I'm like. And I was like, come on, dude, get in, get in. You know, they were hot. Ready? Yeah. And then, and then when he, when he asked, and I know he asked already knowing it was more to let me know, you know?

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

Is it. Are those pork? And I'm like, oh, yeah. They're pork. I said, hey, Doug's making some steak and chicken though over there, bro.

[Sal DiStefano]

We have some ham sandwiches over here.

[Adam Schafer]

Oh, dude, I felt baloney. Yeah. What a good sport though. Did not to not punk me over it, bro.

[Sal DiStefano]

So that was my, my, that was only my second time having those because I never make ribs. I don't know how to make them. But they're good, bro. They have, they are the best. They're the best.

[Adam Schafer]

They're the best. I have, I have for. We've been with Butcherbox for a long time now and there had been many times where I get on a kick and I'm cooking them and I've already ran out of them, so I got to go buy from Safeway or Costco. And I've bought all kinds of other brands and I even got online and looked up some of the best like, and had them shipped to me. And, and just I, I don't know if it's the heritage pork or what it is about them, but no, no other baby feed them.

[Sal DiStefano]

Yes, they feed them.

[Justin Andrews]

It's so tasty. I mean, honestly, like Everett actually requested that for his birthday this year for the meal. He just, he loves those ribs or anything else.

[Adam Schafer]

I mean Katrina and I, sometimes that's. We'll just.

[Justin Andrews]

You made it for him in Truckee, I think. And then he was hooked.

[Adam Schafer]

Oh man. Yeah.

[Sal DiStefano]

So good.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah. And it's, it's. They're easy. It's not. There's a little step, step three step process. I do that very. Most people are familiar with the three, two, one cooking ribs. And I season it real basic and it just, boy, they just turn out amazing.

[Sal DiStefano]

I gotta read to you guys a post in our forum that I saved where we had somebody post about Chat gbt.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

And about programming it.

[Sal DiStefano]

Yes, dude. And I'm so glad they posted this because it gave me an opportunity to comment on what's. What makes a trainer or coach really effective. So the post is this. Over the past few months, I conducted an informal case study comparing two training programs. One designed by ChatGPT and the other was Maps Performance. And so they prompted ChatGPT with like, create a three month progressive training program. You know, this, that and the other. So Chat GBD spit out the program and the. She's like, let's see, let's see which client does better. Who does better. So my comment under that was, was the following. I said chatgpt nor Maps will, will ever outperform a good in person trainer who can modify on the fly and consider all factors including, this is most important, the psychology and personality of the client. And then I wanted to make, make this a point. People buy Maps programs because they trust me, Adam and Justin, not because they're the best in the world. They also happen to be good. But we don't sell them to someone until the consumer has built a relationship with us by listening to our podcast. And my point with that as a trainer, is this a trainer who's, let's say on a scale of 1 to 10 in terms of knowledge and just, just in terms of just skill. Right. Let's say on a 1 to 10 they're a 7, but they've earned 100% of the client's trust is going to be more effective than a clock, than a trainer who's a 10 on a scale of 1 to 10, who has a everyday life, a 5 on the scale of trust. So the trust factor, and considering that and also the psychology and the personality of a person is so much more important than anything else. And this is what makes a program effective. This is what makes a trainer effective. It isn't that they have the best skill that's important, but it's that they know how to work with the client. The client trusts and follows them. That's what makes them.

[Adam Schafer]

And all the day to day nuances that only the in person trainer, right, or the person who's training the client can be able to modify to like, obviously we write a program and then we give it to you and if we don't talk to you day to day and yeah, now we don't have that opportunity. We thought a lot about this. I remember when we created these. And so a lot of that is thought out. When we write exercises the way we do and we, and we lay out phases the way we do and then also know why the podcast exists. It was always thought, okay, the idea of the podcast is to understand that even as great as our programs are, they're still incomplete without understanding all those nuances. So the podcast is designed to fill those gaps so that somebody is listening every day. They're also falling apart. They go, oh, that's where the guys are talking about where I should probably scale back to two sets instead of three sets.

[Aaron Manke]

Cuts.

[Adam Schafer]

Oh, this is when they mean I should probably do mobility day, even though it's technically a foundational day. Like, oh, okay, I get like. Because it, it is, it's all, it's, it's audible, it's a moving target always. I've never trained a client where I Wrote a program and we just followed it. Never, never, never ever.

[Justin Andrews]

It's like a business plan.

[Adam Schafer]

Part of, part of as I got.

[Sal DiStefano]

Exactly.

[Adam Schafer]

Part. Yeah. Part of as I got more advanced to trainer, I stopped writing programs. It was like a waste of time. It was like, why am I going to write this whole thing out? Because I know that I'm gonna end up audible like in the next week. So it's like I have a, an idea of where we're going.

[Sal DiStefano]

We look at our consumers and we've sold thousands and thousands and thousands of maps programs over the last 10 years. Okay. The people that get the best results with our programs are the people that buy our programs and then continue to listen to podcasts.

[Justin Andrews]

They listen to the podcast.

[Sal DiStefano]

Why? Because they have a good program and our programs are good. And I'll put them up against any other program. They're well written, they're well programmed. Any strength coach, any fitness coach will tell you they're well written programs. They always get good reviews. We know what we're doing. But it's the people that continue to listen to podcast and allow us to essentially coach them indirectly. When they listen to the podcast as they follow our programs, they get the best results because they get insight and they know how to move and change things and not and skip a workout when it's important. And they know how to move through those roadblocks. That's the combination. It's the mind pump podcast plus the math programs. That's the winning formula right there.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah. The program itself just takes you to the place where you start to learn your body. And, and that, that, that whole process is, you know, it's going to take all that insight from, from your own feedback your body's giving you, but also too like, knowing how to navigate through that takes coaching. And so we, we need to, we need to combine that together. So if, and we understand like coaching's another additional, that that's a, that's a big ask for people financially, a lot of times to commit to that. And so for us to be able to put that out, the only way we put it out is to be able to reinforce that with us continuously educating and figuring out where's the, the sticking points, where are people falling, where, where are people confused? Like, how can we highlight this, how can we address this and help people through these obstacles?

[Adam Schafer]

And if you don't hear us talk about on the podcast, go to askmindpump.com right. That's what I keep trying to tell everybody. Okay, I have to switch gears Okay. I have a, a Jesus stat for you.

[Sal DiStefano]

Stat?

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah, it's kind of for me.

[Justin Andrews]

He told me this when you went to the bathroom. I was like, oh, dude, this is crazy.

[Sal DiStefano]

What is it?

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah, yeah. You ready for this?

[Sal DiStefano]

Yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

Okay. If you made $7,000 per hour every hour since Jesus walked the Earth, oh, Jeff Bezos is still richer than you.

[Sal DiStefano]

That's not really a Jesus stat.

[Adam Schafer]

I knew I'd get your attention that way. Cool.

[Sal DiStefano]

Isn't that crazy, though?

[Adam Schafer]

Have you heard of that?

[Sal DiStefano]

Yeah, I've heard that.

[Adam Schafer]

You have?

[Sal DiStefano]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

He could take you up into space for 10 minutes.

[Adam Schafer]

Never turn you into that before for.

[Sal DiStefano]

That'S how much money that is.

[Adam Schafer]

I've heard they, they used to do some really cool.

[Sal DiStefano]

Elon Musk has even more.

[Adam Schafer]

They, they used to do ones on Michael Jordan on, on how much money he's made. I remember like there, there was one stat. If he dropped a hundred dollar bill out of his pocket, it would cost him more money to bend over and pick it up than to keep going.

[Sal DiStefano]

Yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

So I always thought that was like a cool stat, that. But $7,000 an hour for 2000, which none of us in here can even fathom what it's like to make 7,000 an hour. That's pretty, pretty crazy. Since freaking Jesus walked the Earth, you still would not be as, as rich as he is. That's crazy.

[Sal DiStefano]

Yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

When you think of that, it's like that level of wealth, you couldn't. It would be a full. I would have to hire somebody to spend my money in order to even feel that I'm spending my money.

[Sal DiStefano]

I don't know. Yeah, it doesn't make any sense. Well, you know how much those yachts that they have, those hundred million dollars.

[Adam Schafer]

That'S what they just, just, they have to, they have to buy those just to feel that they're, they're, they're going, they're spending something just to park them and keep them.

[Sal DiStefano]

Cost millions of dollars a year.

[Justin Andrews]

And it's only going to increase. I mean, they said that once, like AI really is in full force. Because if you're somebody that has the platform where it's actually going to thrive. We're going to have our first trillionaires.

[Adam Schafer]

What, what did you guys think of the conversation with Tom Bilyeu on AI? We had a, we had a big.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah, it was interesting. Yeah. You could definitely tell he's had a lot of people on his show.

[Sal DiStefano]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

Talk to him about.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah, I enjoyed it. I mean, he's, he's.

[Sal DiStefano]

We're Heading for an existential crisis. Crisis. That's what we're heading for.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah.

[Sal DiStefano]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

We're heading for big grill in the room.

[Sal DiStefano]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

Like people don't want to talk about it.

[Sal DiStefano]

Dude. Like, you're gonna have everything you want.

[Adam Schafer]

It did make me. Didn't make you feel. I mean, because he's way more into that stuff than we are. Right. Admittedly. Right. It's not like none of us are. I mean, you guys are a little bit of sci fi guys, but you're not like super AI nerds where you're like going down the rabbit hole like he is. He's interviewed some of the brightest brilliant people in that space. And to hear him confirm a lot of what I feel like we've been communicating.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

You know that we are one. We're heading towards a plugged and unplugged society. Like that's down the road to real quick here. You're gonna have everything that you want.

[Sal DiStefano]

Yep.

[Adam Schafer]

And we're gonna be.

[Sal DiStefano]

And they're gonna be sad, and we're.

[Adam Schafer]

Gonna be more sad than we've ever been. Which is. I think if you do think people.

[Justin Andrews]

Need to wrap their head.

[Adam Schafer]

I do too. I think, like, I can't. I keep saying that because I think you need to wrap your brain around that because now I.

[Justin Andrews]

What are you gonna do?

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah. I get. If you're somebody who's struggling right now and it's. You're from. You're fighting for paycheck to paycheck. I know it's like to feel like that. I know that that's. You're like, who gives a. Give me that problem. You think in your head. But let me tell you something right now. Like, you think that and then you. And then. Then this happens and it's.

[Sal DiStefano]

It.

[Adam Schafer]

It really is going to be very depressing for a lot of people that haven't found purpose in other things in their life than to try and fight to survive or to get by or to pay their bills. When that stuff all becomes solved, we won't be happier. Which is of kind. Think it's sad to think that.

[Sal DiStefano]

Well, it's. We've already showing that. I mean, we're more anxious and sad now. The data shows, and we have more stuff than we've ever had. What do you think is gonna happen? We have even more stuff. You think it's gonna get better? Yeah, it's not. We don't. We're not sad and anxious because we don't have enough stuff.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah.

[Sal DiStefano]

We're sad and anxious because we don't have purpose and meaning so we've lost connection.

[Justin Andrews]

You know, speaking of stuff, I, I'm so glad to bring this up because I dropped Everett off with his friends and they're, you know, they're hanging out and I'm trying to kind of pull back a bit and have him like explore, kind of do things on his own. And so he was like downtown Scotts Valley and that, you know, give him a little bit of money to go buy stuff and do things. And he ended up going to the Dollar store and we go to pick him up and we see like him and his buddies are all kind of walking around town and what they buy at the dollar store, it's like, like okay, can you imagine what it looks like, let's say like Lake Havasu or like New Orleans or like what they're carrying in terms of like a drink?

[Sal DiStefano]

Oh yeah, the long, the long skinny.

[Justin Andrews]

Like it was all like margarita thing. He's got American glasses on, he's got like a little hat and like they literally look like they're on spring breaking water out of this thing and everybody's like honking, you know and they're like woo. And I'm like, like oh my God, this is such like a foreshadowing for me in college.

[Adam Schafer]

Yes it is.

[Justin Andrews]

And he's freaking 12 around the corner.

[Adam Schafer]

Dad, I was dying, dude.

[Justin Andrews]

He's still drinking. He brings it to the dinner table and it's his favorite cup now and.

[Sal DiStefano]

It'S literally long ass margarita.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah, it looks like you know, you went down to Cabo or something.

[Sal DiStefano]

We've all done that. We've all had a drink out of that stupid cup.

[Adam Schafer]

That's great.

[Sal DiStefano]

Yeah. Listen to Brain FM and induce different states of mind. It's backed by science and it really works. In fact you can try them out for 30 days. See for yourself. If you want a more focused brain, listen to focus. If you want to sleep, listen to sleep. Give it five to ten minutes. Watch what happens again. Free 30 day trial. Go to Brain FM. Mindpump. Back to the show.

[Ryan Reynolds]

First question is from Big World Smallkiwi. How could I work on getting deeper into the squat position?

[Sal DiStefano]

The name's got me laughing.

[Justin Andrews]

Too many innuendos up.

[Adam Schafer]

We have to find out first of all what the the limiting factor is. This is usually big motivation for Maps prime to do a full assessment. More often than not, or at least in my experience, the most common thing right here is ankle mobility. Almost, almost always somebody that can't get into a really deep position. They think it's normally their hips or their back, but it's normally their. It's. And that's because you start to compensate in the hips and the low back and. And. Or the knees, but it's because the ankles don't have the mobility to have the knees travel forward. And so then you feel it other places. And so a lot of times the average client connects it, like, oh, I have knee issues. That's why I can't squat deeper. Oh, my hips feel tight when I go that low. And it's like. But those are all compensating because you lack the ankle mobility.

[Sal DiStefano]

Yeah, totally. Like, focus on improving ankle mobility through movements. Like the. What's the one that you like to do, Adam? Combat stretch. Combat stretch. Combat stretch. Do that one on a regular basis and also practice on getting into a low squat throughout the day. So hold on to something if you need to, or place your back up against the couch or hold on to some straps or like some TRX or suspension trainer straps. Get into a deep squat position and then try to sit there, not relax, but rather maintaining stability. And try to practice this throughout the day. That's the fastest way that I've seen to get into a low squat. Then when you train and when you're exercising with the squat, lighten the load substantially, like half. And then go a couple inches deeper. That's it. Just a couple inches deeper. And practice on getting stronger in that deeper position. You can also pause at the bottom of the squat with weight on your back. With lighter weight. That tends to help as well.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah. And just to add to the ankle mobility and to reinforce that a little bit bit further, like, really pay attention to your pressure points. So. And I know Brink's pointed this out a couple times with me, and also Jordan. Dr. Jordan Junta pointed this out to me a lot, too. It. The big toe is a big part of this whole equation in terms of stability around the ankle. And so to be able to. To articulate your toes and work on that and also, like, maintain those pressure points between, you know, the big toe and the pinky toe and just, you know, reinforce that and regain that sort of ground force strength is going to help tremendously. And then, yeah, of course, all the other kind of steps apply in terms of gradually bringing that depth and treating it like it's an entirely new exercise.

[Ryan Reynolds]

Next question is from Jen Garner. As a trainer, are you still learning something new every day? If so, what?

[Sal DiStefano]

You better be.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah.

[Sal DiStefano]

I mean, if you're. If you're training people you're learning something all the time. This is my favorite part of personal training is.

[Adam Schafer]

I'm assuming this is directed to us, though.

[Sal DiStefano]

Yeah. So.

[Adam Schafer]

But yes. The answer is yes.

[Sal DiStefano]

Yeah. Now we're not training clients anymore, but you're.

[Adam Schafer]

Regardless of that, I still would say yes. I mean, there's. We just recorded a podcast. Sal brings a study damn near every time. 90, 90% of the time I haven't heard of the study. So I'm learning there. Justin just got back. Back from having another expert trainer work on him for his shoulder. I'm sure he picked up and learned some stuff. I'm always deep in what we're doing on the business side for the trainers and how to help them scale their business. So even though they did not translate into biomechanics and nutrition, it's also helping trainers be better trainers. Like, I mean, we're.

[Sal DiStefano]

That.

[Adam Schafer]

One of the things that. That attract, that attracted all of us together is that pursuit of growth. We all have different things that we might have specialties in or things that we're into. But the thing that we have in common and why we get along so long, so well is because each guy is always constantly growing and learning every day in some aspect that serves the overall business and mission well. Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

And we're all trying to teach constantly on the show. So it's.

[Sal DiStefano]

You have to learn.

[Justin Andrews]

So you have to learn and you have to find a new way to relate and have that really resonate. And so we talk about what seems like the same exact topics all the time. But. But there's always something, you know, some other angle, some other way we can present it that may be more effective and efficient. We're seeking that out constantly.

[Adam Schafer]

That's such a great point, Justin. I'll give. I'll give a direct answer or I mean, it's example of something like that that just played out. So we just had all these trainers come in to our studio. We've had prime and Prime Pro forever. If you've been listening to the show for long enough, you've probably heard me. Shame hundreds of trainers that if they don't have it and why you should have it. Something came to all of us teaching prime and Prime Pro or Prime this past weekend, and that was, boy, we really need to hold a certification course on it. Because as much as we thought we simplified it to make it as easy and applicable to the average trainer or person to use. We realize in this seminar setting, as we are having someone like Dr. Brink and ourselves teach these trainers how lost still, some of them are. And boy, we, even though we've communicated this a million times, like, we got to go even deeper on this. And so we're gonna put value going deeper. We're gonna put together a certification course for the coaches and trainers. We were going to teach them even in more in depth on a subject that I thought we've covered a bunch of times. Like, that's. I learned that this last weekend. I, I assume that we did such a good job with that that everybody was using it so well and it's like, oh, wow, this just enlighten me on. We could be better about how we communicate this and teach others. And so we too are learning how to be better communicators around something that I thought we've communicated really well. So, yeah, no, the learning never stops.

[Sal DiStefano]

Really, really good, effective, successful trainers tend to have a thirst for growth and learning. So I think this is like, as a trainer, you love people, you love fitness and you love learning and that's a great culmination for success.

[Ryan Reynolds]

Next question is from awaters. How do you transition to a healthy relationship with food after counting macros and being regimented for such a long time?

[Sal DiStefano]

I mean, one word slowly, but really what this looks like is you're so focused on macros and calories that what you need to do is move out of that and focus on other things in regards to the food. So bring yourself off slowly and you could do this with like two days or three days off of no counting and look out for the binge. Right? Look out for the. Oh, the reins are off. I can go as crazy as I want, but just kind of come off of it and then pay attention to all the other attributes and values that the food brings you. How does this bring make my energy feel? How does this affect my exercise performance? How's this helping my digestion? Eat. Eat very presently. So be present with your food and start connecting the dots with all the things that the food does for you aside from losing body fat or building muscle. But connect it to all those other things and make this a slow process of transition because it can be difficult to break these chains. And when you start to do this, you will find yourself being a little scared. You also may find yourself going off the rails a little bit because what kept you in the rails or the macros? So it can be a back and forth process as you break free from this control, because that's what this is really just control. Relationship with food.

[Adam Schafer]

A couple things. One, we have an intuitive eating guide that we wrote specifically to help people through this process. Two, this really does depend on where this person currently has with their relationship with this. If I have somebody who is highly addicted to weighing, measuring, and their food and tracking, like they never miss type of deal and telling them to cut cold turkey and go in to intuitive eating is really tough. And so what it might look like to that person is like, hey, let's, let's just track protein, you know, but we're not going to worry about the other calories for a little bit or let's do it, you know, a couple days of the week, but let's let go on one day, you know, and so, so, you know, it looks different for every person depending on how, how much you're addicted to this. And, and this is, this is back to what makes good trainers and coaches is the ability to read where this person is at and meeting them where they're at and, and knowing that the ultimate goal is to get away from tracking, measuring, all those things. But if this person has wrapped their entire identity around that for so long, it's really tough to cut cold turkey because any sort of shift in a direction they don't like is gonna freak them out and send them back the other direction. And so you really gotta meet people where they're currently at. No different than when we're helping somebody with weight loss or any other goal of not throwing too much on their plate at once.

[Sal DiStefano]

One good step strategy is to experiment with different kinds of diets so you still have a little bit of the sense of control, but now you're paying attention to how it feels to go with no carbs for a while and how does it feel to eat Paleo for a little while? Or how does it feel to go on an elimination diet for a little while? And what you're trying to do is connect the dots with how you feel, mental performance and sleep and mood and really start to learn how to really value food for its entirety, not just for macros and not just for calories.

[Justin Andrews]

Calories.

[Ryan Reynolds]

Next question is from Scaper Girl. What are some tips on coming back from being sick? I've been out with double sinus and ear infections since April 17th. No listening, lifting. No almost anything for 12 days. Lost five pounds and feeling weak. What do I do? Same workout, lower weights, lower weights, lower reps, et cetera.

[Sal DiStefano]

Yeah, you'll gain back everything you lost very quickly with, with almost no effort. So in other words, you can go.

[Justin Andrews]

To the gym very slowly.

[Sal DiStefano]

You go to the gym and go through the motions just kind of feel everything. And you're probably going to need to do that for a little maybe a week or less, maybe like four, three, four days. And listen to your body. The first real workout is going to get you pretty sore. That's normal after you take 12 days off, but whatever. If you lost five pounds of muscle, it'll come back very quickly. It could come back in a few days, actually. And I'm not exaggerating, but do it slowly. One of the mistakes people make after sickness, they go too hard, too fast.

[Adam Schafer]

Always, and cause problems always. I think the mistake that we all make is this. I mean, I've been doing this. I've been doing this for so long and every time this happens and I tend to do this a lot where I'm in and out and on kicks. I'm on a hardcore kick for a while, then I'm off for a while. I do this all the time. And every time I come back, I almost always overreach. I almost always. And I even. And have the conversation myself. I don't have to do very much. I haven't done anything for a couple weeks now or a month. Just a little bit. Just a little bit. And yet I still tend to overreach. And so yeah, you, whatever you're thinking, do less. And that might sound crazy, but you don't. If you haven't been doing anything for a couple weeks now and you're coming off of being sick and. Right. Just recovering, it's not going to take much to stimulate that. So a maps 15 type of protocol is probably. And maps 15 protocol. And light. Light is probably what I would recommend. So do one or two exercises, go significantly lighter than what you would. And I'd probably do that for a week, maybe two, and then you'll probably be back to where you were.

[Sal DiStefano]

Totally. Look, if you like the show, come find us on Instagram. Justin is mindpumpjustin. I'm @mindpump. Distephano Adams @mindpump.

[Ryan Reynolds]

Adam, thank you for listening to Mind Pump. If your goal is to build and shape your body, dramatically improve your health and energy, and maximize your overall performance, check out our discounted RGB Super Bundle at mindpumpmedia.com the RGB Super Bundle includes Maps, Anabolic Maps, Performance and Maps Aesthetic. Nine months of phased expert exercise programming designed by Sal, Adam and Justin to systematically transform the way your body looks, feels and performs with detailed workout blueprints and over 200 videos. The RGB Super Bundle is like having Sal, Adam and Justice as your own personal trainers, but at a fraction of the price. The RGB Super Bundle has a full 30 day money back guarantee and you can get it now. Plus other valuable free [e-mail] if you enjoy this show, please share the love by leaving us a five star rating and review on itunes and by introducing Mind Pump to your friends and family. We thank you for your support and until next time, this is Mind Pump.