2609: Five Times It’s Better to NOT Add Weight to the Bar & More (Listener Live Coaching)

Summary

Podcast Summary: Mind Pump: Raw Fitness Truth Episode 2609: Five Times It’s Better to NOT Add Weight to the Bar & More (Listener Live Coaching) Release Date: May 31, 2025
Hosts: Sal Di Stefano, Adam Schafer, Justin Andrews
Producer: Doug Egge

---

Introduction to the Episode

In Episode 2609 of Mind Pump: Raw Fitness Truth, hosts Sal Di Stefano, Adam Schafer, and Justin Andrews delve into the intricate topic of strength training, specifically focusing on scenarios where adding more weight to the barbell may not be the optimal choice. This episode also features live caller interactions, offering personalized coaching and insights.

---

Main Discussion: When Not to Add Weight to the Bar

1. When the Risk Outweighs the Benefit [02:44]

Sal initiates the conversation by outlining the first reason it's sometimes better to refrain from increasing weight:

• Sal Di Stefano: “When the risks start to become larger than the benefits, adding weight isn’t advisable.”

  He explains that as lifters become stronger, the margin for error decreases. For instance, a slight form discrepancy becomes significantly riskier with heavier weights, potentially leading to serious injuries.

• Adam Schafer: Emphasizes aligning training with personal goals, stating, “If you're already stronger than your peers, adding five or ten more pounds doesn’t always make sense.”

2. Improving Range of Motion [09:29]

The second reason revolves around enhancing flexibility and range of motion:

• Sal Di Stefano: “If your range of motion can be improved, don’t add weight—instead, challenge your movement.”

  By focusing on deeper squats rather than heavier ones, lifters can achieve better muscle growth and reduce injury risks.

• Justin Andrews: Highlights the benefits of focusing on various training variables, stating, “You could just fill in so many gaps and be a much better overall performing person.”

3. Need for More Recovery [11:11]

Recovery is crucial for sustained progress:

• Sal Di Stefano: Recommends slowing down reps and increasing intensity without adding weight to facilitate better recovery.

  He notes that heavier weights can hamper the body’s ability to recover, whereas lighter weights with increased effort can maintain workout effectiveness with less strain.

• Adam Schafer: Warns against the “recovery trap,” explaining, “Your body’s constantly trying to recover versus adapting from it.”

4. Addressing Lagging Body Parts [14:29]

Focusing on underdeveloped muscle groups is essential:

• Sal Di Stefano: Advises modifying techniques to target lagging body parts instead of simply adding weight.

  For example, if the chest isn’t developing as expected during bench presses, adjusting form and reducing weight can help better engage the chest muscles.

• Adam Schafer: Suggests incorporating unilateral exercises to identify and correct muscle imbalances, stating, “Run a series of unilateral work to diagnose and balance out discrepancies.”

5. Time Constraints / Limited Equipment [17:09]

Practical limitations often necessitate alternative training methods:

• Sal Di Stefano: Recommends slowing down reps or adjusting tempo when facing equipment limitations instead of adding more weight.

  • Sal Di Stefano: “If the weight feels a little light, slow your reps down to hit your desired rep range with the desired intensity.”

• Adam Schafer: Shares a personal tip, “This is how you solve a hotel gym problem,” highlighting the practicality of his approach.

---

Live Listener Coaching

Caller 1: Doug from [Location Withheld] [57:06]

Doug seeks advice on balancing competitive powerlifting aspirations with the desire to avoid injuries and set a positive example for his children.

• Doug: Expresses concern about risking injuries while aiming for national competition results.

  • Sal Di Stefano: Acknowledges Doug’s mature approach, stating, “You have the right approach if your goal is longevity and avoiding major injuries.”

  • Adam Schafer: Encourages Doug, “In the long run, you win by avoiding injuries and maintaining consistent progress.”

• Outcome: The hosts commend Doug’s balanced perspective and advise sticking to his current training approach to ensure long-term health and sustainable progress.

Caller 2: Jen from New Jersey [71:21]

Jen inquires about the legitimacy of Electrical Muscle Stimulation (EMS) studios and their effectiveness.

• Jen: Describes EMS workouts that involve electrical stimulation to enhance muscle activation.

  • Sal Di Stefano: Validates that EMS can increase muscle fiber activation but cautions against overhype, especially claims like “four hours of muscle stimulation in 20 minutes.”

  • Adam Schafer: Labels EMS as “overrated” but acknowledges its niche applications, such as rehabilitation.

  • Justin Andrews: Agrees, suggesting EMS is more suited for specific recovery scenarios rather than replacing traditional workouts.

• Outcome: The hosts recommend using EMS as a supplementary tool, particularly beneficial for rehabilitation, rather than a primary workout method.

Caller 3: Chris from New Hampshire [90:13]

Chris seeks guidance on utilizing various recovery equipment available at his new gym to optimize training and recovery amidst life changes like a newborn.

• Chris: Outlines his current training routine and the new recovery tools available, asking for advice on maximizing their use.

  • Sal Di Stefano: Advises transitioning from an upper-lower split to a three-day full-body routine to accommodate reduced sleep and recovery needs.

    • Sal Di Stefano: “I think taking that one day off will make a big difference, especially with a new kid.”

  • Adam Schafer: Supports the adjustment, adding, “Adding consumption of recovery tools like sauna can enhance both physical and spiritual well-being.”

  • Justin Andrews: Reiterates the importance of incorporating recovery methods judiciously.

• Outcome: Chris is encouraged to prioritize sauna usage for optimal recovery and spiritual benefits, while adjusting his training frequency to balance family responsibilities and fitness goals.

Caller 4: Kevin from [Location Withheld] [98:05]

Kevin discusses his struggles with overtraining and seeks advice on safely ramping up training volume to achieve specific strength goals without incurring injuries.

• Kevin: Shares his history of overtraining in OCR and weightlifting, experiencing negative side effects like reduced libido and disrupted sleep.

  • Sal Di Stefano: Suggests that Kevin continue with his current program as long as he’s progressing, emphasizing the importance of gradual volume increase.

    • Sal Di Stefano: “If you’re getting stronger, you are progressing your volume. There’s nothing wrong with that.”

  • Adam Schafer: Recommends adding volume incrementally, such as introducing one additional exercise or a couple of sets at a time.

    • Adam Schafer: “Add volume slowly and be honest with yourself about how your body is responding.”

  • Justin Andrews: Advises Kevin to maintain the current training approach and avoid the common mistake of indiscriminately increasing volume across all exercises.

• Outcome: Kevin is encouraged to continue his structured approach, focusing on gradual and selective volume increases to ensure sustainable progress and injury prevention.

---

General Discussions

Smartphone Addiction and Mental Health [18:07]

The hosts discuss a study examining the impact of removing constant smartphone internet access on psychological functioning.

• Sal Di Stefano: Highlights the study's findings that limiting smartphone internet access improves mental health, well-being, and attention.

  • Adam Schafer: Draws parallels between processed foods and social media, noting their engineered nature to maximize user engagement and the potential negative consequences.

• Justin Andrews: Emphasizes the challenges of combating smartphone addiction, especially in parenting contexts, advocating for conscious effort and structured habits.

Parenting and Limiting Screen Time with Kids [26:07]

The conversation shifts to strategies for managing children’s screen time to foster healthier habits.

• Sal Di Stefano: Shares personal experiences, advocating for allowing limited access to content like Mr. Rogers to prevent overexposure to stimulating media.

  • Adam Schafer: Discusses creating structured activities and rewards to encourage children to engage in non-digital interactions.

  • Justin Andrews: Reflects on the necessity of being the disciplinarian parent to combat the allure of screens, despite it being unpopular.

• Outcome: The hosts recommend aligning with like-minded families to provide social support and consistency in enforcing screen time limits.

Innovation in Fitness and AI Clones [35:00]

A brief exploration into the future of fitness tech, including AI-generated personal clones.

• Adam Schafer: Discusses the potential and ethical implications of AI clones mimicking personal trainers.

  • Justin Andrews: Expresses excitement about grassroots movements in fitness and technology reducing middlemen.

• Sal Di Stefano: Contemplates the broader impact of technological advancements on society and personal interactions.

---

Conclusion and Final Thoughts

The episode wraps up with the hosts encouraging listeners to apply the discussed principles thoughtfully. Emphasis is placed on balanced training approaches, the importance of recovery, and mindful use of technology in both fitness and daily life.

---

Notable Quotes

• Sal Di Stefano at [02:44]: “When the risk outweighs the benefit, adding weight to the bar isn’t advisable.”

• Adam Schafer at [07:50]: “If you can't name what it translates into real life for you, it's pretty much worthless.”

• Justin Andrews at [09:44]: “You could just fill in so many gaps and be a much better overall performing person.”

• Sal Di Stefano at [17:09]: “If the weight feels a little light, slow your reps down to hit your desired rep range with the desired intensity.”

• Adam Schafer at [93:58]: “If you're getting stronger, you are progressing your volume. There's nothing wrong with that.”

---

Key Takeaways

1. Avoid Overloading: Adding weight isn’t always synonymous with progress. Prioritize form, range of motion, and recovery over simply lifting heavier.
2. Structured Volume Increase: Gradually increase training volume by adding sets or exercises selectively rather than uniformly across all muscle groups.
3. Recovery is Crucial: Utilize tools like saunas effectively for both physical recovery and mental/spiritual well-being, especially during life transitions.
4. Mindful Use of Technology: Be aware of the impact of smartphones and engineered media on mental health and develop conscious habits to mitigate negative effects.
5. Balanced Parenting: Align with supportive communities to maintain consistency in parenting strategies, particularly concerning limiting children’s screen time.

---

This episode serves as a comprehensive guide for fitness enthusiasts seeking to optimize their strength training routines while maintaining overall health and well-being. The live coaching segment provides real-world applications of the discussed principles, enhancing the episode's practical value.

Transcript

[Ryan Seacrest]

Hey, it's Ryan Seacrest for Albertsons and safeway. Now through June 24th. Score hot summer savings and earn four times the points. Look for in store tags on items like General Mills cereal, Chobani Greek Yogurt, Pillsbury Crescent rolls, Cinnamon rolls and Biscuits, Haagen Dazs ice cream, Lindor Chocolate Truffles, Tillamook ice Cream and Cove Probiotic sodas. Then clip the offer in the app for automatic event long savings. Shop in store or online for easy drive up and go pick up or delivery subject to availability restrictions apply. Visit Albertsons or Safeway.com for more details. If you want to pump your body and expand your mind, there's only one place to go. Mind Pump Mind Pump with your hosts Sal DeStefano, Adam Schaefer and Justin Andrews.

[Sal DeStefano]

You just found the most downloaded fitness, health and entertainment podcast. This is Mind Pump, right? In today's episode we had live callers call in. We got to coach them on air, but this was after an intro. Today's intro was 54 minutes long. In the intro we talk about fitness, science, fat loss, muscle gain, health, and we talk about current events and family stuff. It's a good time. By the way, if you want to be on an episode like this where you can call in and we can help you, email us your [e-mail] now this episode is brought to you by some sponsors. The first one is Organifi. Today we talked about their green juice. I brought up a study on polyphenols and how they boost BDNF in the brain. It's good for your brain to have 600 milligrams of polyphenols daily. Well, Organifi has a green juice that is packed full of polyphenols. Go check them out. That's Organifi.com forward/mindpump. That's O R G N I F I.com forward slash mindpump. Use the code mindpump for 20% off. This episode is also brought to you by Mind Pump Group Coaching. We have two groups that we are now currently going to start coaching. One is for fat loss, one is for muscle gain. If you want to get coached by one of our trainers that in a group, go to mindpumpgroupcoaching.com by the way, trainers and coaches, if you want to learn how to sell training more effectively, I'm going to be doing a free webinar on Tuesday. You need to sign up though it's free. Go to trainerwebinar.com it's happening again June 3rd. We also have a sale on some workout programs this month. It's actually one day left, so it's going to end very quickly, very soon. Here's the sale. Maps 15 Performance and the RGB bundle are both half off. If you're interested, go to maps fitnessproducts.com and to use the discount code May50. So it's May50. Use that for the 50% off discount. All right, here comes the show. You want to add weight to the bar. Stop. Don't do it yet. There's actually five reasons why you shouldn't add weight to the bar. Or to put it differently, you'll get better results if you do what we're about to talk about.

[Adam Schaefer]

I like this great idea you came up with here. Look at you giving me crap today. Geez, you are.

[Justin Andrews]

We are evolving.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yes. Yes, we are.

[Justin Andrews]

You guys are playing nice.

[Sal DeStefano]

Well, okay, so I'll start with the first one, just so people aren't waiting too long. When the risk outweighs the benefit, this is when adding weight to the bar is probably not a good idea. But the reason why we're having this conversation is because, well, number one, getting stronger is extremely important. It really, really is. And for the first few years, this is probably one of the top things you should be concerned with. But after that, it can become an issue. And it can definitely become an issue when the. When the risks start to become larger than the benefit. And this starts to happen when you start to get really strong. Like, when you start to get really strong, there's, you know, having bad technique or having your form be off by 5%. As a man with, let's say, £100 on your. On your back, I mean, that could cause an injury. But if your form is off 5% with £300 on your back, well, now you're talking about a higher risk factor, very high risk of injury. And at that point, you want to ask yourself, is adding £20 to the bar gonna give me better results than slowing down my temp, my form, or having better technique, or making it feel heavier? And oftentimes, especially when you're experienced, adding weight to the bar is not the best option.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah, and I think too, you highlighted earlier, like, this is the part of the maturity, like, you earn your way into this sort of mentality, like coming in. And obviously loading the bar for progressive overload is a definite function of starting out. And this is something we need to build in terms of foundational strength. But there's a lot of other Variables you can manipulate there to, to lower that overall risk factor now still make great progress.

[Adam Schaefer]

You have to ask yourself too, what's your goal? Because many times the client's goal, I mean, yes, they want to be strong, but that's, they're not chasing a specific number. They're like, hey, I just want to be strong and healthy and, or I want to look good. Which is really what most people are trying to achieve, is to be fitter, feel fitter, look fitter. And if you're already stronger than your peers because you've been training consistently for the last three years, then adding five or ten more pounds to the bar doesn't always make sense.

[Sal DeStefano]

Right.

[Adam Schaefer]

Especially in the context of it's a risky movement to compound lift, or it's an area where, you know you don't have perfect form or can be off slightly slow the tempo down. I mean, you're far better off doing that. And that still increases the intensity. It still progressively overloads the body. You'll still build muscle from that. So, yeah, I think more often than not as a trainer, I would default this way. It was only the occasional client where I was like, oh, I just keep stacking more weight.

[Sal DeStefano]

Well, that's a good point. I think when you're training people, if you're a good trainer, weight on the bar never trumps technique or stability or control ever. So the only time I would add weight to the bar, even with new clients where it's, we're adding weight to the bar is going to give you huge returns. Right. When you first start strength training, getting stronger, adding weight to the bar gives you huge, huge, huge benefits, but never at the, at the compromise of technique or form. Because even if you don't hurt yourself, you're going to get strong in ways that don't benefit you and you're not going to develop the kind of muscle you think because your technique is off and this can lead to dysfunction, it can lead to a lot of different issues. But then later when you're really strong or you get real strong, this, this really starts to fall down the list of priorities. Like, I personally, I have a personal experience with this. It was a few years ago where I hit, I had broke my previous deadlift PR. I had deadlifted 605 pounds. And I remember after I did that, after about a month later, I thought to myself, I said, you know, it'd be really cool If I pulled £700 before I turned 50, you know, because, you know, at the time, stupid goal, I was 45. I'm like, you know, £700 creeps in there. But what would the benefits be of getting that? What, am I going to develop a much different looking body? No. At that point it's just technique, it's specific types of training, it's neural output. And what benefits am I going to get from it versus the potential risk of really bad injury? Like you hurt yourself deadlifting 200 pounds. Okay, if I hurt myself deadlifting 650 pounds, it's probably going to be an injury that's going to affect me maybe for the rest of my life. Maybe not debilitate me, but probably affect me long term. And what gains would I get from that? Not that much. Would I get the same kind of gains by training differently, slowing down my tempo, you know, improving my connection, whatever. Yeah. I'll get just as great a gains from doing that. So you have to ask yourself, especially if you're advanced, is the risk of getting. Now if you're going to compete in powerlifting and that's the name of the game, that's fine, that's a sport. But if you do this for fitness and health and looking good and feeling good, you know, you ask yourself, all right, what are the, what are the benefits of adding 50 pounds to my 300 pound squat?

[Adam Schaefer]

If you can't name what it translates into real life for you, it's pretty much worthless.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah.

[Adam Schaefer]

If you can't, you can't be like, well now I can do that thing. Yeah. What thing can you not do at a 500 pound deadlift that you can now do 600 pounds?

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah.

[Adam Schaefer]

There's nothing.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah, yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

It's funny now too because it's like I'm so looking forward to getting back into that mentality and the way, you know, I was training before, trying to really press the envelope and get into that like, you know, crazy PR type of training. But it, and it's so, it's so nerve wracking now too at that point. Like if you're, you're towing that line every time I training, I'm like, oh my God, like don't exceed it, don't, don't overdo it. You know, pull back, recover. And it's because the risk factor is so much higher.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

You know when you're, when you're really shooting for that.

[Adam Schaefer]

Listen, you could, if you take a client who's middle age or advanced age and they've never strengthened, trained before, they, they struggle walking up their stairs or getting up out of bed or doing things that, and you get that client to now all of a sudden squat 130, 550, that's life changing.

[Sal DeStefano]

Life changing.

[Adam Schaefer]

Life changing for that person. From that point on though, them going from 150 to 250, it doesn't make that big of a difference in their life anymore. And then the new risk you put them at by doing that is just, it's.

[Sal DeStefano]

And the higher, and the higher that number gets, the, the less. Yeah, like, like you said, like if I get a new, if a new person adds 50 pounds to their lifts, it changes their life. If you're advanced and you're lifting heavy weights and you had £50 to your lifts, you feel nothing different if. Except for maybe more aches and pains, stiffness.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

So again, you have to look at the risk versus the reward and can I get the same rewards or similar rewards without adding weight to the bar? And when you're advanced, oftentimes the answer is yes. Adding weight to the bar is probably not the smartest thing.

[Justin Andrews]

There's so many parts of training that you can focus on that like, don't even involve like lifting really heavy weight. Like you could just fill in so many gaps and be such a better overall performing person, you know, if you just like shift the focus.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yep. Here's another reason or time when it's not better to add weight to the bar and that's when your range of motion can be improved. So if you're, you're squatting and you're going down to 90 degrees and you're like, wow, I'm stronger, I'm going to add weight to the bar. Why don't you just not add weight to the bar and go a little lower? You actually get better results by doing that. You actually build more muscle, you'll get a more balanced looking physique, you'll reduce your risk of injury, you'll get more benefit from doing that with less risk so long as it's done within reason than you would by adding weight to the bar. So if your range of motion is limited and you're stronger, challenge your range of motion, don't challenge the load. That's actually the worst thing you could do at that point.

[Adam Schaefer]

Or work towards getting a greater range of motion. Because the reality is you're probably not going to be able to. If you only squat down to say 90 degrees with whatever weight and lightening it up, you may not necessarily be able to go any deeper with good form because that's where what's happening as your form probably breaks down. But it's the Work you have to put in in order to get a deeper squat that has so much more return.

[Sal DeStefano]

Right.

[Adam Schaefer]

So you take somebody who's now reached, say, 200 something pounds in a squat, and they're only squatting 90 degrees, and I say, okay, as a client, we're gonna strip the weight down. We're gonna do, like an isometric hold at the bottom. We're gonna do some 90 90s ankle work. We're gonna get to a place where we can get six more inches of depth. And all that work in order to get those extra six inches are so valuable to that client far more than if we would have added 25 or 50 more pounds to that squat.

[Sal DeStefano]

I remember as a kid learning how to shoulder press, and I. I remember the fir. The first certifications we got with shoulder press told you to limit your range of motion down to, you know, 90 degrees. This is. And it was. It was really just the safe way of them teaching trainers. Yeah. How to not hurt people. But it wasn't the best way to train. But anyway, I was shoulder pressing like this forever, and I remember getting convinced to go all the way down and go much lighter, and my shoulders blew up. I got so much better results. Way better function. I was stronger. All my lifts and my delts look better from the fuller range of motion versus just adding weight to the bar. With that short range of motion, the full range of motion was superior. One of the other reasons is when you need more recovery, when you're feeling a bit fried, it's probably better to slow your reps down and make the weight feel heavier than it is to add weight to the bar. Adding weight to the bar can definitely hammer your ability to recover. So you can still have a good workout. You're just not going to go heavier. Instead, you're going to make the weight feel heavier. And this tends to translate into less damage to the body. It just tends to. Now, I know people can make the argument you can make lightweight feel just as intense as heavyweight, but there's something about the heavyweight, whether it how it's affecting the stabilizers or your balance, maybe the fear factor of it. Who knows? I mean, I could come up with a list of reasons, but I know that if I lift a lighter weight and make the weight feel heavier, I seem to recover faster than if I max out with the.

[Justin Andrews]

Well, it's more extrinsic, not intrinsic, because intrinsically you could. You could obviously, like, struggle more. You could put. Produce more effort, which does apply to that, you know, but, yeah, it's so much, so much less of a risk. And, and you know, better for your body a lot of times to kind of focus more on like your own effort into it.

[Adam Schaefer]

Well, this is a quick recipe to get in that, what you call the recovery trap. I mean, this is what I mean. We were probably all guilty of this as early lifters, just thinking that being that sore was a part of being that sore. And I remember many workouts heading into it and being really, really sore and going like, I just got to push it again. And then your body's constantly trying to recover versus adapting from it. So I think it's a quick recipe for someone to get stuck in that recovery trap by training this way when you'd be far better off lightening the load, working on range of motion, and you're going to get, you're going to get as strong, if not stronger, you'll recover faster. Just a far better, smarter way to approach it.

[Sal DeStefano]

Totally. Next is, this is why bodybuilders are tend to do this, because really advanced bodybuilders are good at. This is when you have a lagging body part. This is especially true for compound lifts. If you have a, let's say a prime mover in a compound lift, like your glutes when you squat or your chest when you bench press and you're like, you know what? I bench press and I'm getting stronger. My delts and my triceps are developing. My, my chest isn't. Or you're like, I'm squatting. I'm getting stronger, but my butt doesn't seem to be responding well. Rather than adding weight to the bar, modify your technique to start to feel and connect to those lagging body parts. Sometimes, oftentimes when I train somebody with a lagging body part and we were doing this compound lifts, I would lighten the load and slow down and say, squeeze and feel it here. Because here's what happens when you do a compound lift. Your body doesn't think body parts. It doesn't think.

[Adam Schaefer]

No, it says move the weight, hit, chest hits.

[Sal DeStefano]

It thinks, move the weight in the most efficient way possible. Now, most efficient meaning the way your body moves in the best way, which means you could have muscle groups that aren't firing the way they should, but your body learned to move that way.

[Justin Andrews]

So that's how you're gonna move the most weight compensation.

[Sal DeStefano]

That's right. So you're quad dominant when you squat, or you're bench pressing and your tricep and shoulder dominant. Well, lighten it up and change the Technique a little bit, focus on those lagging body parts and then watch what happens. This is, this was my recipe for people with lagging body parts was lighten it up, squeeze those areas, let's see what happens.

[Justin Andrews]

Throw some isometric, some unilateral type exercises so you can really kind of hone in on, you know, reconnecting to that muscle.

[Adam Schaefer]

I actually think this is something that just a general rule for all lifters is you should run a series or a cycle every year of unilateral work just to do a diagnostics to come back and check on that. Because if you do a lot of barbell lifting, it ends up happening. What you said is that you're concerned about lifting the bar over your head or getting the bar up off your chest and you're not thinking about, oh, is my left and my right firing equally? And you don't notice that discrepancy until you go to unilateral work. And then you see the unilateral work and you go, oh, my God, my left side is, you know, 10 pounds weaker. And all these lifts that does to.

[Justin Andrews]

Your bar path too.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah. How much more vertical you can get, huge difference. And I think this is like, it's always evolving and changing. So even as you get really experienced, say you've been lifting as long as one of us. I still have these, these periods of time where I'll go back to it and I'll say, oh, I created a little bit of an imbalance again. So the, the more barbell work you do, the more likely you will find these imbalances. And it's just good, just good habits to annually check back in and go, hey, you know what? I'm going to run a unilateral cycle right now and just pay attention to my left and right and try and balance it. Discriminate versus let's keep pushing the barbell movements and see if I can add another £20.

[Sal DeStefano]

That's right. And then lastly, maybe when you're limited on time, maybe you have a home gym and you have those dumbbells that require you to unscrew the ends and add weight to. Or you just have the gym and you got to get up and go add weight. You're like, okay, I'm supposed to do 12 reps, but this weight feels a little light. I think I'm getting 15 reps with it. Well, instead of having to get up and get grab the weights because you're limited, just slow your reps down, make the weight feel heavy so that now you perform the desired amount of reps with the desired amount of intensity. In fact, this is what I do nowadays when I train nowadays at the gym. Rarely do I add weight to the bar for the third or fourth set. It's typically, oh, I miss, you know, I miscalculated my weight. It's a little light. Here's what I'm gonna do. I'm just gonna slow down. I'll hit my desired rep range by slowing the reps down and making it feel hard at the 10 rep Mark rather than adding weight to the machine.

[Adam Schaefer]

I, I love this tip. This is, I mean, this is how you solve a hotel gym problem, right?

[Sal DeStefano]

Oh, totally. I mean, they go up to 50.

[Adam Schaefer]

Pound dumbbells, so I mean, I, that's at my wide. I take that back. I just recently ordered the, the heavier ones, but I've been, I was lifting it to 50 pound dumbbells at my house for the longest time. And, you know, I, I love the. Just grab one pair of dumbbells and then I get an entire workout right there. Because even the exercises where 50 pounds seems light, I just got to slow the tempo down or go unilateral and split stance and do things like that and it'll intensify it just fine. So this idea that we always have to add weight to the bar. Yes. It has tremendous value. Yes. Early on, I mean, it's really good and it's important that we focus on strength. But at some point, the returns are diminishing 100%.

[Sal DeStefano]

All right, I gotta, I gotta go through that study, Adam, that you shared with me.

[Adam Schaefer]

I just, I saw it come up from. Give the credit to Jim Quick. It was on his post, dude, and I saw that and I went, oh my God, this, that's alarming.

[Sal DeStefano]

So this is a, this is a well made study. And up until now we've speculated that access to easy access to the Internet and social media is probably negatively affecting our ability to focus or concentrate. This maybe has some negative effects on cognitive performance and function.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah, we're outsourcing everything, but up until.

[Sal DeStefano]

Now, a lot of it's been speculative. Now the speculation, I think, has been on point because the way that your smartphone and its apps and social media and all this stuff, the way that they're all engineered is very similar to the way that, you know, processed foods have been engineered. Right. So processed foods are expertly engineered to make you overeat. Okay. These, these social media apps and all stuff on the Internet and stuff, it's even, it's even more well engineered because they actually engineer themselves in real time. So like if you're on social media, the algorithm will engineer it to you personally. So it's imagine eating a processed food.

[Adam Schaefer]

That was perfect for you.

[Sal DeStefano]

That's hard to resist. It's already hard to resist. Oreos. You're eating them. Except the Oreos now get feedback from you and can make themselves more sweet, more salty, more crunchy based on your personal.

[Justin Andrews]

More olive oil for sal.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

Thanks dude.

[Adam Schaefer]

Imagine, imagine. Imagine technology in that far where you know every food that you eat tastes that would take like your favorite, your favorite food.

[Justin Andrews]

Oh my God.

[Adam Schaefer]

Imagine that. Imagine everything was cheese, bro. You eat everything I do. I wake up like a salmon. But it tasted like cheese. You know what I'm saying? How amazing that would be.

[Justin Andrews]

If somebody can figure that out. I'll eat fish.

[Sal DeStefano]

Not to go off. I thought about you the other day. Someone got a Ritz cracker. You know they have the little holes in it. Yeah, it was, and it was like a hack. And then he put the spray cheese through the hole in the middle and sprayed it and it perfectly made like this cheese like topping on it. I'm like Justin, I've probably done that.

[Adam Schaefer]

I've done that.

[Sal DeStefano]

Anyway, so the study was actually well, well done. So what they did with the study is they did a month long randomized control trial. The goal was to investigate how removing constant access to the Internet through smartphones might impact psychological functioning. They use the mobile phone application to block all mobile Internet access from participants smartphones for two weeks and objectively track their compliance. So are they off? Like let's try.

[Adam Schaefer]

And I believe they were. The, the only things they were allowed to do was take phone calls and text message.

[Sal DeStefano]

That's right. So the intervention specifically targeted the feature that makes smartphones smart. So the mobile Internet. While allowing participant participants to maintain mobile connection through texts and calls and non mobile access to the Internet so they'd have to go to their desktop computer to get on the Internet. The intervention improved mental health, subjective well being and objectively measured ability to sustain attention. 91% of participants improved on at least one of those outcomes. Almost everybody got better. Okay, so in at least one of those things that I mentioned.

[Adam Schaefer]

Okay, so we discussed recently, I brought it up to you guys about a friend of mine that's going through with his son with the ADD potential, ADD medication and stuff. And I said how is that not a study to prove that the games and things like that. That's 100. Right. So these, these shows like Coco Melon and these tv especially the part about this that's really insidious is that it's especially true in these children's video games. Their video games, their television shows are. Have you, have you heard, like, I know you know about Cocomelon. Do you, like, know how they figure that out? Like, they literally put all these kids in, and as soon as the kids lose attention, they switch, they change. Okay, we got to edit that. We got to change what we do right there. Switch the color. Switch to this. Okay, good, do it again. And then they just keep doing that until they can keep these kids completely looped in for the entire duration of the show. And then, okay, that we've made one, now the next one, and they just keep doing that. And so you do that to a kid and he's getting all that stimulation, then he plays video games, and then you want him to sit in a classroom for an hour and learn about history or like, are you kidding me? And then wonder why he can't sit still and doesn't want. I mean, it's fascinating to me that this isn't discussed more. And when I Googled like the I told you when it first came up, I started searching. And when you search, they don't say that it causes any of that. So there's no video game, YouTube? No. There's no articles out there or studies that are showing that it could cause add, but there's clearly a correlation to that with what, what we're seeing from this. Right. And that similar. Isn't that what it's basically saying?

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah, the, the, the issue.

[Adam Schaefer]

I mean, it's not saying it's causing add, but I mean, for somebody who struggles with potentially that potential is there.

[Justin Andrews]

It's gotta be aggravating.

[Sal DeStefano]

It's. It's accelerating again. Okay, I'll use, use kids as an example. We'll go back to health because it's a health and fitness podcast. Go to the grocery store and look up. Go look at all the kids foods. The most engineered crap you'll find are for kids. Now why is that? Because parents don't want to struggle with getting their kids to eat. And so if a food manufacturer can make a food that a kid will eat on their own, parents naturally will go to that because raising kids is hard. It's tough, it's stressful. And you look, my kids want to eat and I put out this food. They don't want to eat it, rather than I put it out and they love it and they eat it and it seems okay type of Deal. By the way, oftentimes what they do is they wrap this in something that's healthy. So your kids are watching attention destroying educational content. Yes. But they're learning.

[Adam Schaefer]

Well, that's what cocomelon, that's why Coco is so insidious. Because you're like, oh, well, they're learning these songs and they're learning colors.

[Sal DeStefano]

At what cost is what's happening. But this was adults. This study was done on adults. Adults. Our brains are not nearly as plastic as children. So who knows what the effect will be.

[Adam Schaefer]

It's got to be, it's got to be worse for kids. How malleable their brains are at that, at that age.

[Sal DeStefano]

It is.

[Adam Schaefer]

No.

[Sal DeStefano]

Happens with these like attention grabbing things is. You're, you're, you're flooding your brain with dopamine and neurotransmitters and your brain starts to adjust and downregulate receptors to adjust to this flood of dopamine. That, that would never happen naturally. Right. Never would. You get that kind of changing of scenery and novelty in nature just doesn't exist. So the brain starts to adapt to the point where normal life becomes so unstimulating, you cannot pay attention. That's what happens. It's no different than eating heavily processed foods. If you eat strawberry flavored candy all the time, your brain will adjust to the point where you'll eat a real strawberry and it's going to taste bland. Nature's candy is going to taste super bland. We've all experienced that, you know, cutting off certain foods or whatever. It's the same thing with this kind of stuff. So it's really interesting to me that it's not interesting. I think it confirms kind of what we all know. And I'm gonna speak as an adult getting like I have to consciously. I'm constantly struggling myself with my own, with my phone, with the way that it grabs my attention. We joke about it in here all the time. So this is a real, this is a real thing. I don't know what the answer is. I don't know if it's gonna be like, you know, get a, get a dumb phone.

[Adam Schaefer]

Well, you see that, we've seen that movement. I don't know how it'd be interesting to see how popular that movement is.

[Justin Andrews]

Because how long it lasts.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah, because I've seen, I've seen that there's some high school kids that are opting for the flip phone. Yeah, the flip phone. So like that.

[Sal DeStefano]

I don't know if my cousin did.

[Adam Schaefer]

I don't know if that's because they care more about their health or they know their parents are tracking them in smartphones. I'm not sure which one it is.

[Sal DeStefano]

My cousin did for health reasons.

[Adam Schaefer]

Really?

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah. So he's, he's a really. I told you guys about this kid that my cousin, he's like one of the most remarkable kids I've ever met. Super like growth minded, devout Catholic, just very responsible, like great kid. And he switched to a smartphone because he's like, I can't resist going on the Internet and distracting myself all the time. So now he's using a flip phone.

[Adam Schaefer]

So I mean, maybe. Doug, can you search? I'm curious to see like sales. Yeah, well, no, there's a movement behind it. Like look up, you know, dumb phone or flip phone movement. And is it catching fire? Was it a trend for a minute?

[Sal DeStefano]

Like, are dumb phones becoming more popular?

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah, I don't know.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah, you can look up sales. There you go.

[Justin Andrews]

I don't see it. I don't see it.

[Adam Schaefer]

Anything. I know, I've heard, See, I've seen the articles and I've heard.

[Justin Andrews]

I think it's a great novel idea. I think we sit in here and we want that, you know, but it's not, it's not a thing.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

You know, you really have to like isolate. You have to be comfortable with the fact that you're going to isolate yourself.

[Adam Schaefer]

I, I just think it's queso I shared with you guys off air. So Max had pneumonia and the flu the last five days. So it's been a rough like five days. Especially for Katrina. Like she's just like non stop now. He's puking and feels miserable barely so laying around the couch watching tv. Right, right. I mean that's kind of what all you're doing at the time. And we did that for like four days straight. So he's feeling much better now. We're on the men. We're still coughing and sick and he's not better completely and he's still needy. But we're on the men now. Easily. And Katrina's got stuff to do today. Easily. She could go, I just, I need to get work done. And he's, you know, laying around the couch. He's still not feeling. I'll just let him watch tv. But knowing how much we've already given him in the short period of time and how addictive it's already become in that short period of time. Like she set up all these stations for him and she made a game out of it.

[Sal DeStefano]

Right.

[Adam Schaefer]

Well, every time he Completes a station, he gets a sticker and they're all active.

[Sal DeStefano]

Just to pull them out.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah, just to pull. And by the way, these are things that he would love to do organically and naturally. But we recognize how much the pull is in that short period of time of allowing him to do that, and that it takes a little more effort than just being like, hey, you're going to play outside, or, hey, you're just going to play with these toys. So we've. So my point is, it just takes a real conscious effort from us as parents to be aware of that. Like, I always. I always feel for, like, you guys who have older kids who, like, didn't know.

[Sal DeStefano]

I was so unaware.

[Adam Schaefer]

Well, most people were. If you. I mean, 15 years ago, nobody. I mean, let's be honest, eight years ago, when I started talking about. You guys were making fun of me.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah.

[Adam Schaefer]

Remember when I brought. Remember that was a big joke on this podcast, like, oh, Adam, recommending Irresistible again. Hey, that one book. Right.

[Sal DeStefano]

Like, yeah, I still make fun of you, But.

[Adam Schaefer]

But, I mean, it wasn't truth there.

[Justin Andrews]

There's always was truth there.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah, it just. There was just not a lot of conversation around it 10, 15 years ago. So, you know, didn't know. Didn't know any better. But for people that have kids now that are like, my son's age or younger, it really is up to us to create those habits early on. Then I think you won't have as hard of a time with these high school kids.

[Sal DeStefano]

I think you have to realize. I think this will help parents. You have to realize that it's. It's you versus billions and billions of dollars of innovation and engineering. So it's you versus the smartest thing.

[Adam Schaefer]

Oh, yeah, no, it's David versus Goliath.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

So you have to realize that because it's attrition. It's not.

[Justin Andrews]

It's not just like, you know, you do this and you implement it like, it's.

[Sal DeStefano]

It's a struggle ever.

[Adam Schaefer]

Forever.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

You can't stop. That's the thing is. And we're going through that right now. That's why I'm frustrated, because it's like, now you're going into summer, they don't have the structure of school. They don't have this woman do. And then they want to just geek out on video and, like, go see your friends and, like. And so now I have to come in with the hammer and battle ax everything and throw all this away, and, like, you're not going to get it back. And I Got to be that guy. But you have to be that guy.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

And that's it. And it's not fun and it's not cool, and you're not like the best friend guy.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

But you got to come in and you got to lay it down.

[Sal DeStefano]

It's going to suck. It's. It might. So my wife is really good with the little ones and electronics and tv. Like, she's very strict. And we've done this experiment where, you know, because I. I grew up watching Mr. Rogers as a kid. That's what was on TV when I was a kid. And she tells my. My. Our kids, you can watch unlimited Mr. Rogers, but everything else is limited to. It's 20 minutes. 20 minutes total for the day. If we put on Mr. Rogers, my kids will stop watching it. They'll watch it for a little while and they're done.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

It won't keep them engaged because it's slow.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

And it's. And they're just. Let me do something else. You put on something else. I mean, my kids will stay on there until they lose their mind.

[Adam Schaefer]

I told you I figured that out with Nintendo, right? The original Nintendo. Yeah. Like, Max will just, like, get bored. Like, we'll be doing it and he'll be.

[Justin Andrews]

I thought it was just the distance at first because I had the same experience, because it was. At least you're, like, pulled back from the screen. But it's so much more than that.

[Adam Schaefer]

No, I mean, they just didn't figure it out. Well, you only have. You only have three lives, then you die.

[Sal DeStefano]

You got to start all over.

[Adam Schaefer]

You got to start all over. You know, the game is slow as boring music. It's like. It's not visually all over the place. It's very. You know, the characters. The characters are like this, you know, so it's. I mean, the science in that has evolved so much that I. I think a lot of people just don't realize how much. Because I know a lot of people say exactly what you. I've heard this, like my buddies, we. When we all talk about this with our kids and like. Well, you know, I also don't want to be that dad because, you know, we played video games. You know, remember we played when we were kids. It wasn't the same because we. I. What I remember we used to do, and they all agree the same thing is, like, we used to play basketball, football, baseball, everything outside until the sun went down, and then we couldn't play outside anymore. So then we. So we had the second option and that. Yeah, then we would play and then we would normally stop because you eventually get bored. Because it is kind of like the same thing over and over where, man, the way they've designed them now is not like that.

[Justin Andrews]

They just hang out with their friends in there.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yes. Yeah, yeah, that's.

[Justin Andrews]

That's the new way they hang out.

[Sal DeStefano]

I know. And look, it's, it sucks. But if you want to be healthy in the, in the entire sense of the word, health, mental health, physical health, spiritual health, you can't be like everyone else. Your kids can't be like all the other kids. Look at the data. Like, most people are not well. So, yeah, you're going to have to.

[Justin Andrews]

Be that guy, stand out a bit.

[Sal DeStefano]

And your kid's going to be different. And what I encourage parents to do because we've done this through our church is find other families who are aligned because then your kids can be with other kids who get it.

[Doug]

Yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

Otherwise your kids are hanging out with other kids and like. But my friends can do this and my friends can do that. And it's a constant battle versus they go tell their friend. Yeah, my dad won't let me be on my phone for more than 15 minutes. Like, my dad won't let me either.

[Adam Schaefer]

Well, that, that makes a huge difference if you can find other parents that, that align with the similar values because then the kid doesn't feel like it.

[Sal DeStefano]

Makes your life easier.

[Adam Schaefer]

Way easier way. I think it's also a lot easier too. Again, if you, if you start it early where it takes a little bit of effort from Katrina. And I right now in hopes that when he's later in life, like, he gets that, you know.

[Justin Andrews]

Well, I got to talk about something positive about social media, which is going to throw this whole conversation off. But I saw a really interesting cool trend or I don't know if it's a trend or if just something that this one band did that I've, I've heard about that other bands are, are taking notice of. But you remember the band All American Rejects?

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

Super popular band back in the day.

[Adam Schaefer]

That was Peaches, right?

[Justin Andrews]

No, that was.

[Adam Schaefer]

Oh, that was Presidents presidency.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah. But anyways, they, they decided that they were not going to do Ticketmaster. They're not going to do like venues. They were just gonna literally have their own audience, like choose a place and then get enough people to show up there. And then they would play in somebody's backyard. Oh, that's a park at a pool like place, like wherever. And then they would just they would just plot it based off of, like, you know, how many people contributed and, like, if it was people pay to make it happen. Yeah, they all paid. But it's like direct to the band. Yes, that's direct to them. Like, they just play, like house parties and they've been even more profitable, I guess, doing this because there's no.

[Adam Schaefer]

No hands in the hands.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah, they're catering. They're catering to their most.

[Justin Andrews]

I was like, that's brilliant. Yeah, yeah, exactly. They're. Yeah, they're getting more fervorous fans as a result.

[Sal DeStefano]

I feel like that's the direction things are going to go with AI anyway, because AI is going to be entertaining and doing things that the. The. The real hard horror fans are the ones that are going to make business possible for a lot of.

[Justin Andrews]

I love it, dude. It's like the grassroots kind of thing is starting to poke through and. And, you know, get rid of all this, all these middlemen.

[Adam Schaefer]

Well, it's been a. I know we have organifi today commercial.

[Sal DeStefano]

Oh, dude, I got a polyphenol study related to organic.

[Adam Schaefer]

Well, tell me.

[Sal DeStefano]

I'm going to tell you the studies. Let me pull it up. So this is a pretty cool study. I read the other day. I saved it for this episode.

[Justin Andrews]

I saw that earlier. I thought it said polygamy.

[Sal DeStefano]

No, no. Weird.

[Adam Schaefer]

What are you into now?

[Sal DeStefano]

Stop it. You know in the Old Testament. No, no, no. It says this is a study. 600 milligrams a day of polyphenol. Polyphenols from fruit and vegetable concentrates. Okay, so it wasn't just from the fupa, from the concentrates. Improved cognition and boosted brain biomarkers. BDNF and creb. So BDNF is like. It's really good for the brain, right? Helps it with neuroplasticity and growth and learning. So this was from 600 milligrams a day of polyphenols. So organifies green juice is polyphenol city. It is concentrated polyphenols.

[Adam Schaefer]

You know how much?

[Sal DeStefano]

No, but it's definitely enough to make a difference because it's. Concentrated polyphenols are these micronutrients with really powerful antioxidant ability or capabilities that you find in fruits and vegetables. So a concentrated form like a green juice, which is almost no calories. So it's not like juice would. Would be able to create that.

[Adam Schaefer]

So I was. I was bringing in organifi and Drew up because of the AI conversation we have, because his AI bot was just clone his clone is the fact that we're here. That. That's here. I mean, we were talking about that for a long time, a long time on the podcast, how easy it would be to do that of one of us, because the amount of. Of content that we have.

[Sal DeStefano]

So you have to explain what he did.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah, so. So I forget the company. So maybe Doug can look up what the company is. We can shout them out or whatever, but this company basically makes a AI clone of yourself. And he literally did it right in front of us. It was so wild. He.

[Justin Andrews]

Drew.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah, he pulled up his. His clone. His. His clone of himself. And he said. And he said, hey, Drew, I'm going on the Mind Pump podcast today. Do you have some tips for me?

[Sal DeStefano]

And then it was his voice.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah. And then it tells him all these great tips. Right, Great. Basically analyzed what our show's about, what we stand for, our values, the things that we talk about, stuff we ask questions about, and gave him all kinds of tips.

[Sal DeStefano]

Now, what it did on how to.

[Adam Schaefer]

Prepare for that in the way it.

[Sal DeStefano]

Works is it aggregated data from all of his podcasts and things he's written. And so it literally. It got his personality in it. So, like, if you have, like, you could plug this into this thing, apparently, and it creates a clone of you, which is. What is it?

[Adam Schaefer]

Is that the Delphi?

[Sal DeStefano]

That's weird.

[Adam Schaefer]

What are the three options? What does that mean?

[Justin Andrews]

His voice was in inflections and.

[Adam Schaefer]

Oh, yeah. And it was like.

[Justin Andrews]

It came distinguishable.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah, it was really close already.

[Sal DeStefano]

Weird.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah, it was close enough that the average person wouldn't know any better. Obviously a little bit of a delay, but just a little, you know, I mean, it's. So we're here. It's like, it's only a matter of time. It'd be so fun to see if we could, like, replace one of us in the conversation and see how that flowed. Just for.

[Justin Andrews]

I'll take that baby version and we'll just sit them in here.

[Adam Schaefer]

For me, what are the differences between the.

[Ryan Seacrest]

I think it's really.

[Justin Andrews]

My mic is turned down.

[Ryan Seacrest]

It's really about how much. How many messages you can get in minutes you can get every month.

[Sal DeStefano]

Oh, wow.

[Ryan Seacrest]

Oh, so you pay for additional minutes, like a subscription?

[Sal DeStefano]

This seems to me like the ultimate narcissistic tool. You know what I mean? Like, I could just have another.

[Adam Schaefer]

Okay, yes and no. But remember, if you can write your emails for you. And what was that sci fi show that you really like that you got me to watch, not upload there's the other one where the guy, he's talking to his brother who died in war or something like that, and he's. God. What. What show was it? It was one of your guys's side.

[Sal DeStefano]

Sounds like a Black Mirror episode.

[Adam Schaefer]

So he. He was like. He was like going through therapy and it was. But it was like his brother who was communicating to him, and it was. And it was like an AI version of it. So I can think of examples. Huh? No, no, it wasn't her. It was. It was in a movie, it was a show, it was a series and a Westworld.

[Justin Andrews]

Westworld.

[Sal DeStefano]

It was one of the last Westworld end.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah, I don't, I don't remember the. The end of that, but I remember it was one of the seasons and I. And I remember and we brought it up when, when it happened on the show. And I think you said the same thing too. Like, I know I'm like. And I brought up the point of how cool it would be to talk to my dad. Like, if. If my dad had the amount of content that I have put out there. And let's say if Max were to lose me right at his. At his young age of 5, 6 years old right now and 20 years from now wouldn't actually he cares. Because he probably doesn't care his teenage years to talk to dad, but he cares and he gets older. Like, man, I missed out on dad. And he would want to have this conversation. With the amount of data that we have of me communicating on here and written content, it would be really close to, like, communicating. And to me, that's better than nothing, right? I have nothing right now. I have like a handful of pictures, a little bit of stories from family that's passed down and like. But not that. But if I had the ability to like, call and talk to him and have a conversation, and it would be him, like, talking or like, like him. I don't know. I think.

[Sal DeStefano]

I don't think a majority of people use it that way. I can see what you're saying. You know who did that first, by the way? What movie showed something like that first? Let's see if just knows Justin's a movie nerd. Like I am.

[Justin Andrews]

Okay.

[Sal DeStefano]

What. I'll give you. I'll give you a hand. Superhero movie.

[Justin Andrews]

Oh, that. That used the.

[Sal DeStefano]

The clone kind of like that. Remember when Superman, he went and he built his fortress of solitude and he would talk to his parents. They all got destroyed. You don't like Superman?

[Adam Schaefer]

No.

[Sal DeStefano]

Oh, yeah, you're a Batman guy.

[Justin Andrews]

That's Right. But I did okay.

[Sal DeStefano]

The superhero. No superpowers.

[Justin Andrews]

Superman just has all of them. Like.

[Sal DeStefano]

Cool.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah.

[Adam Schaefer]

Anyways, I mean, you. You. Right away, you. So you. What comes to mind for you is bad application on it. Like, the word.

[Sal DeStefano]

All of this makes me think of that. Really?

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah, dude, I don't think that. I don't think that way. Where do you think.

[Sal DeStefano]

Let me ask you guys a question real quick. Where do you guys think a good chunk of the money goes into innovation on the Internet? And what do you think they're going to take this technology?

[Adam Schaefer]

Okay, well, I'm glad you. Okay. I'm glad you went that direction. Yeah. Internet number one sites, probably porn, all kinds of bad, negative stuff. But generally speaking, would you not say the Internet wasn't an incredible thing?

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah.

[Adam Schaefer]

Okay.

[Sal DeStefano]

I just caution.

[Adam Schaefer]

So it'll be. It'll be like that. It'll be like that. Just like that. There'll probably be a lot more people that use it for bad and evil, and it'll be abused and all the things that you're thinking, but we never.

[Justin Andrews]

Really had a chance to acclimate is how I feel.

[Sal DeStefano]

Like, so fast.

[Justin Andrews]

It's so fast. It's so disruptive. It's so innovative. There's. There's positives, there's negatives, but, like, we, We. We've never been able to just sit and be like, oh, we've adapted.

[Sal DeStefano]

I don't know, dude. I'm in a different headspace. Right. Or weird headspace, because I. I just came back from Vegas. Las Vegas. This weekend. We went for my niece's Vegas. Yeah, we went for my niece's graduation.

[Adam Schaefer]

That's Sin City, bro.

[Sal DeStefano]

So let me.

[Adam Schaefer]

Sodom and. Sodom and Gomorrah right there.

[Sal DeStefano]

Can I tell you guys something for real? So I've all. No matter. Even before, even secular. Sal. When I would go to Vegas, after a couple days, I'd want to leave.

[Justin Andrews]

Because they would just get to a shower.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah. I just would feel kind of like. Right.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

But through a different filter. Right. You know, now I have a faith. And I went there and we. I don't know why we decided this would be okay, but we walked the Strip for an hour with your kids and I saw.

[Justin Andrews]

Did you get the handouts?

[Sal DeStefano]

It was. It was every, like, sin or every terrible thing celebrated. And this is. By the way, it's human nature. We're all, you know, fallen, broken, all that stuff. But it's so celebrated that as we're walking through, I. I just felt so sad. I mean, I saw a dude almost getting a fist fight in the street. So I saw rage, lust, everywhere. At one point, there was a woman dressed as a nun with her boobs exposed. That was hurt. Yeah, shtick. I saw extreme poverty. I saw total addiction. It was as we're walking, I just felt so by it. And I'm just like, man, human nature. And what's crazy about it is you just called it, Vegas advertises it, and that's what brings people to it. They don't even play. They don't try to pretend like this is Sin City, you guys.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

And that's how they get everybody to go over there. So as I'm walking through, I'm just like, oh, my gosh. So you at. You talk about technology.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

And I'm just like, oh, what are. What are people going to do with this? Is there going to be some good prop? Maybe. Hopefully. But is there going to be, like, some craziness that we can't even. I can't even conceptualize, probably.

[Adam Schaefer]

I mean, it'll. It'll. It'll make bad people worse, but good people. You'll be able to do good things with it. I think it'll be like. I think the Internet was a perfect analogy. It will be like that technology, it will absolutely be disruptive. It absolutely will do some evil things. But, I mean, that's everything. That's never. That's never not been the case. It's always been our nature. And we only see it. It only seems so in our face. Because the Internet, because we have the ability to see somebody doing evil across the country, where you would go your whole lifetime and never hear that story. Because it was across the country. Just across the country. But now it's like, on your Instagram feed the same day.

[Sal DeStefano]

Well, it's a good.

[Adam Schaefer]

So it just.

[Justin Andrews]

You guys hear about the. The Tylenol murders?

[Adam Schaefer]

Oh, I saw that. I saw that. I saw the series on.

[Justin Andrews]

I never even heard of that.

[Sal DeStefano]

Like.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah, well, so, yeah, again, to this whole point, like, so I think this was, what, back in the 80s, maybe, but they now they have a. Like a seal that you put on medications like that you put, you know, in convenience stores because of this incident. Because this guy put cyanide in Tylenol because you could remove the capsule and you could stuff in. So he'd go to these, like, convenience stores, and they found this guy was putting cyanide, and people were just taking Tylenol and dying.

[Sal DeStefano]

Oh, my God.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah. And it's like super insidious, like, Crazy like that. That even could have happened. But then it's like, well, if that's the potential, this is going to happen.

[Sal DeStefano]

You know, take them a while to catch. Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

Because they thought. They thought maybe it was from the manufacturing plants, and they realized that it was just isolated in this one city. And so what they found out, it wasn't the responsibility. It wasn't somebody working at the plant that was, like, doing this. It was actually somebody that was going to the convenience store and then taking. Taking actual product off the shelf, putting it in.

[Sal DeStefano]

What comes over someone that makes them want to randomly kill people.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah. I haven't gotten into the second episode yet, so I don't know if Psycho.

[Sal DeStefano]

That's so terrible.

[Adam Schaefer]

I mean, but again, you're highlighting my point, which, I mean, it's just evil always will exist, and there will always. People will find ways to do bad things. I mean, so, I mean. And I think that's when I see a technology like that, that my optimistic brain goes right to the things like, oh, this could be really.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah.

[Adam Schaefer]

Really, really cool. I think it'll be cool for a lot of reasons.

[Sal DeStefano]

I'll give you guys some upliftings. You guys see what. I got to give him a shout out. He's so humble, Josh, what he did over the weekend. You guys see what he did? He went to. He went to Mexico. Oh, I did see this with his church. And he built some houses.

[Adam Schaefer]

I didn't know he did that.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah, dude, this weekend he just did.

[Adam Schaefer]

He just got back on one leg and everything.

[Sal DeStefano]

And he's got a. And he's got his knees.

[Adam Schaefer]

Bum leg. And he's out there building houses.

[Sal DeStefano]

And he went out there. There to help build houses for people that needed houses. Yeah, he sent me some pictures.

[Adam Schaefer]

Who'd he go with?

[Sal DeStefano]

He went with his girlfriend.

[Adam Schaefer]

Just the two.

[Sal DeStefano]

In the church? No.

[Adam Schaefer]

In the church.

[Sal DeStefano]

How great is that?

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

That is so awesome. Yeah. What a great kid. He's such a good. You know, again, shout out to that guy.

[Adam Schaefer]

I mean, what's great about it is that because there's a lot of kids that go and do stuff like that many times, though their parents have set him up on it. So for him to actively choose that as a young adult, you know, to go do something like.

[Sal DeStefano]

What do you want to do this weekend with your busted knee? I'm going to go in some place and go sleep on a cot in a room with a bunch of people and then go build a house, even though my knees busted. That's so cool.

[Adam Schaefer]

I thought that was, you know, speaking of cool, my Katrina text me this morning that, you know, I told you she set up all these little stations.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah.

[Adam Schaefer]

And then she also said, hey, you have to make your lunch today because, you know, mommy's got to work, and then you're home today. So she set out all the stuff for him to make himself a peanut butter jelly sandwich, and he started telling her how he needs to put the jelly on first so it wipes off. Basically, Daddy's daddy says, yeah, you tell.

[Sal DeStefano]

Him to sit down and pee, too, because that's the other debate we've had.

[Adam Schaefer]

Oh, my God. I, you know, I, I forgot how much that stirred up the Internet when we did it the first time. And then, of course, Josh made the video with the, the babies and us arguing like, it is wild to me how many people are, like, divided. Oh, so divided. It is. I mean, clearly division there that people think I'm crazy for doing that. And other people are like, how is there any other way?

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah. It's so strange. Yeah.

[Adam Schaefer]

I had no idea when I said that. I mean, that was so. That was so real and authentic when it happened, when we were just having conversation, I thought, wait, you guys do it that way?

[Justin Andrews]

Like people setting up their toilet paper, like, they get early.

[Adam Schaefer]

Like, oh, if it goes direction.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

And it's split, too. It's not like one has the right answer.

[Sal DeStefano]

I, I. So I know people say have it because that's the aesthetic way to do it, but I learned as a parent early on that don't do that when you have little kids, because they hit.

[Justin Andrews]

The toilet paper and just keep going.

[Sal DeStefano]

And flip it off so you have it under, because when they hit it, then it doesn't come over. Off the road over is what you're supposed to do. Right.

[Adam Schaefer]

I don't think I even pay attention when I do it. That's how I do it.

[Sal DeStefano]

You just throw it on.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah, I literally just throw it on in whichever way. So maybe it's one way.

[Sal DeStefano]

You got us all on the white on the wet wipes kit.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah. You have detail about all those.

[Sal DeStefano]

I know.

[Adam Schaefer]

I actually, I normally am about a lot of things, but that's, that's actually one that I've never been like that. It's never really, I think both, maybe because of the type of ones I've had, because I think it's only. It's really frustrating if you have, like, one of the, like, kind of like the contraption we have here where it's like, it's being fed in Terrible Paper.

[Justin Andrews]

First of all, just like rips off.

[Sal DeStefano]

I hate that.

[Justin Andrews]

When you get quality first.

[Sal DeStefano]

That should use a toilet.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah. Are we the one buying ours? Are we buying ours?

[Ryan Seacrest]

No, I don't think so.

[Sal DeStefano]

Supplied.

[Adam Schaefer]

Okay.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah.

[Adam Schaefer]

Because I'm like, who's buying this? I hate, like, aren't we doing better?

[Sal DeStefano]

I hate it when it's one square.

[Justin Andrews]

It's a measure of success. Quilted toilet paper.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah. My wife agreed with Doug, by the way. She's like, I'll use two knives.

[Adam Schaefer]

So I know a lot of people that do that. I know a lot of people that go, they do. That's, that's wasteful though.

[Ryan Seacrest]

My dishwasher will wash two knives when.

[Adam Schaefer]

You'Re only gonna wash one dish. Like that makes total sense. Use 4. Why not use. Use 1 for every. For every swipe.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah. When's the last time you guys have.

[Justin Andrews]

Had about maybe when I was. Yeah, in junior high.

[Adam Schaefer]

Has it been that long?

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah.

[Adam Schaefer]

Oh, I used to eat them a lot when I was competing. It was a way for me to get calories up. It was like. It was like a late night. Thousand calories for me when I was trying to keep calories.

[Sal DeStefano]

See how lazy people are these days? Have you seen that? You can actually buy a peanut butter and jelly sandwich already made with the crust cut off. You can buy it.

[Ryan Seacrest]

Oh, they call them crustables or something like that.

[Sal DeStefano]

How lazy are you? Have you become that? Are they going to put in your mouth for you now? I saw, I saw the grocery store.

[Adam Schaefer]

Well, they make that. They also make that for all these.

[Justin Andrews]

Kids that helicopter moms that, you know, did everything for them.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah, they also make that. That peanut butter and jelly that's already made together. You've seen that before, right? It's like peanut butter. And then every quarter is like, is jelly in there? So you just do this.

[Sal DeStefano]

Feels like it's gonna get messy.

[Adam Schaefer]

That's just lazy. Let's. Come on.

[Sal DeStefano]

I gotta tell you what, my 2 year old, she's getting like. She's a little spicy little girl, man. I was. We were at the outdoor mall up in Palo Alto earlier yesterday and I'm walking with her and I'm singing to her because she's, you know, she's my little girl. So I'm singing little cute songs to her and she looks at me, she. She closes my mouth with her hands. She goes, shut your lips, Papa. Don't sing.

[Adam Schaefer]

Please.

[Justin Andrews]

Spare us.

[Adam Schaefer]

Was it. Remember when we years ago? Wasn't it. Wasn't it Alessia who told you to shut up or whatever that.

[Sal DeStefano]

Oh, I don't like the way you're breathing.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yes. I don't like the way you're breathing. That's what she said. Your daughter's great. I love it.

[Sal DeStefano]

They're so great. Yeah, I just, you know, my, my, my four and a half year old is at the age he's starting to get to the age now where we could watch like kind of cool movies because, you know, I have to be careful. Right. Otherwise it's a little too scary, a little too much action. But he likes, he's really into the same stuff I was into when I was a kid. He likes Godzilla. He likes like robots.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah, dude.

[Sal DeStefano]

So I found. Remember, have you guys seen the movie Pacific Rim? It's actually a pretty badass.

[Adam Schaefer]

That's pretty violent though.

[Sal DeStefano]

It is. But we only watch the fight scenes and the fight scenes are cartoonish. It's not like real blood or whatever. It's like.

[Justin Andrews]

So we were watching a bunch of big ass robots.

[Sal DeStefano]

Big robots fighting big monsters, bro. He was, he was jumping up and down on the couch. Psych. Oh, I love it.

[Adam Schaefer]

Did you see the game that I sent over to Jessica for you guys? So we just found a game really cool. I think it's called Spot it. And they're just. It's a really simple game. So it's great for like Aurelius and, and my son. Right. Just young. A young. So basically all he has to do is. And I don't know if you're ever sliced this, but Max loves like matching and find the. Find the thing, whatever, like those highlights books and stuff. And you, you flip two cards over and there's. I don't know, I'd say there's like eight images on each. And every card has got one of the other images. But they're different sizes, different colors and shapes and so you gotta, you gotta match them and call them out when. As soon as you see it.

[Sal DeStefano]

Oh.

[Adam Schaefer]

And it's like a speed game, like how fast you can do it. So I don't. This is like, you know, Katrina and I. Katrina brought. Got it. She's like, I thought you could play with him and maybe you can get a little of this competitive spirit up or like that. So we, we play like the first game and he's good at it. He's actually really good at it. So I don't have to like totally lay down for him to be all right. It's like, okay. Like he's got. He's quick on a couple of these and so, you know, I kept it. Kept the game close, but he barely edged me out. And I was like, oh, man, you. What could you say? Oh, making a big deal like that. He won. And she's like, do you want. Do you want to play again? He's like, no, I'm good. Like, really had to, like, egg him on to do it again. And so I'm like, oh, I'm gonna get you this time. And so I beat him the second time and then try to get him to play a third one. He's like, no, I'm good. Daddy will probably win. I'm like, oh, no. No competitive bone in him whatsoever, dude. He's just like, yeah, Daddy will probably.

[Sal DeStefano]

I was just going to ask you, how often do you let him win versus you win? Because I know that that's, like, a thing with kids.

[Adam Schaefer]

It's a mix. Right. So I want. I want him to lose. He. I beat him right? The second game. I beat him or I'll keep it close.

[Sal DeStefano]

What about other stuff? Like, do you have to be like. Like, oh, I gotta win sometimes, not win sometimes?

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah, I don't. I don't let him win always. Definitely not. I definitely want him to see me beat him. Yeah. And that's. I. But what. What I notice about him is just like, he's got no interest. If he gets beat, he's over it. He's cool. Yeah, he's cool. Like, no, there's no, like, oh, I want to get you back, dad, or like that. Like, I beat him in a race. I beat him in anything that we do. He's just like, no, I'm good.

[Sal DeStefano]

We just got to the age with my. My four and a half year old, where now he can handle losing. Because when they're real young, they just. It's just. They just scream and cry. It's like, sucks. Like, you gotta let him win. And then little by little. So now it's like, I will let him win three out of four games. But there's that one game, and I could tell it really bothers him, but I'll make sure I win every once in a while as he gets older.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

You know, once they're teenagers, you just kick the crap out of them all the time. I'm sure that's what happens with you.

[Justin Andrews]

Never let them win.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yes.

[Adam Schaefer]

We're on 15 years straight. I'm undefeated.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah. His kids are gonna say that. Therapy when they're old. My dad never let me win.

[Justin Andrews]

They earned it.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah, no, I. I try. I try and get him to, like, want. Like, so when I'm. When I lose, I make a big deal out of it. Like, oh, man, you got me. I'm gonna. I'm gonna get you next time. Like, trying to see if he'll get left, but he's not. It does not work on him. At. It's why he's the total opposite. Like, he loses and he's like, oh, good job, Daddy.

[Justin Andrews]

You know what's funny about that?

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah, he, like, celebrates me for winning. Dude.

[Justin Andrews]

Dude. Everett actually, he's. He's really good about that with other kids. And so he'll let, like, these other kids win. He'll keep inviting them in and to. To play. Like, especially he's doing, like, horse or, you know, And I'm like, dude. And he. He just.

[Sal DeStefano]

Just is like, crushing. What are you doing?

[Justin Andrews]

You know, like, ah, I didn't teach you that, you know, but it's great. I love seeing it. You know, he's. He's. He's better about that than I.

[Sal DeStefano]

Well, you know, it's a social skill they have. There's that one famous experiments where they show mice where they wrestle. And it's pro social. It helps them develop. And if the stronger mouse keeps winning, nobody will play with it anymore. So they actually have a number. I don't remember what it was, but there's a certain percentage of time that the stronger mouse will have to allow the other mouse to win in order to keep playing. Otherwise nobody's gonna want to play with that anymore. So it's so killer.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah, well, it's just funny. I'm just trying to think back, like, why? Because I. I was in such an environment where everybody. Like, there was.

[Adam Schaefer]

You're the younger brother.

[Justin Andrews]

Throat. Like, there was no. There was no, like, people letting me win ever.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah, you're the younger brother. That's all. You're always probably battling your older brother and his friends.

[Justin Andrews]

My dad is 6, 7. He just smothered me, you know, and then it was just like, oh, I'm always just gonna get smothered and lose like this, you know? So it just created all this.

[Sal DeStefano]

Rage. Aurelius will actually, like, we were playing the game of life, you know, the game of life, whatever. And we're playing that. And if I. I'll look over here for a second, and he'll. I can tell. He's calculating, like, oh, my dad's winning. He'll take money from the bank and put it in his pile. I'm like, what'd you do, steal it? Oh, nothing. I'M like, it doesn't count if, if you cheat. You know what I mean? So I'm trying to like, you know.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah, well, yeah, I mean, I would take a little bit of that. You know what I'm saying? I'd take a little bit of that or something. But yeah, over what I got right now, I'm actually just like not interested in whatsoever.

[Sal DeStefano]

So anyway, speaking of competition stuff, the, the I tell you what. Well, actually, let me take a step back. Walking into our studio. I got to tell you guys, the, the environment we have in here now is so incredible. It feels like different. It feels like when I used to run gyms because now we have trainers in here training clients.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

We got people coaching people and the vibe is just so like good electricity. I haven't been this excited about what we do in a long time. I love what we do. But man, now it's just so, I.

[Adam Schaefer]

Mean, it's perfect timing. We, we've been doing this for quite some time now or a decade. And, you know, there was a period of time where, you know, it's just like really, the four of us, you know, coming in here like, it was quiet.

[Sal DeStefano]

I like you guys. Not that much.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah. So it's a total different. It reminds me of the gym. It sounds like that when you walk in. It sounds just like what it used to sound like when we walk into the. The gym. So I love hearing all the voices.

[Sal DeStefano]

I'm excited for these group coaching that we're doing because we've done a couple of them and they're so awesome.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

And now we're getting to the popular ones. So it's fat loss and muscle building.

[Adam Schaefer]

We have space still. Do you know, Doug, where we're at?

[Ryan Seacrest]

Yeah, we do. At this moment we do.

[Sal DeStefano]

So this is group coaching. You're getting coached. It's a group of 50. Fat loss and a group of 50 for muscle building. And you're getting coached by mind pump trainers. These are people that we train, develop, that work for us. They're going to coach you and it's exciting.

[Justin Andrews]

This, this, this built in accountability.

[Sal DeStefano]

This direction is really exciting for me and we're going to keep moving this direction of, of just, you know, investing more in training and coaching and helping people through that. It's mindpumpgroupcoaching.com Doug. Yes. Is that where it is? Sign up. Yep. Yeah. One of the best protein powders I've ever tried is from Paleo Valley. This is bone broth, protein chocolate. Tastes like chocolate donuts. It's also extremely easy to digest. Go check them out. They have other flavors. Go to paleovalley.com forward/mind pump on that link. You'll get an automatic 15 off. All right, back to the show.

[Ryan Seacrest]

Our first caller is Kevin from Nevada.

[Sal DeStefano]

Hey, what's up, man? Welcome back.

[Justin Andrews]

What's up, Kevin?

[Adam Schaefer]

How you doing, Kevin?

[Doug]

Hey, guys. Thank you. Thank you for picking up this guys. Like this one. This one means a lot because of. Well, I'll explain why. So, because I am going to be competing on the national competition in July. I have about. What is that, two months. I have already told a lot of people I think this is just. As a dad, I'm just worried about. I don't want any injuries. And the worst thing I would want is that I'm competing at a national level.

[Justin Andrews]

Cool.

[Doug]

But then I show my kids that I'm all injured and hurt and. And all that crap. That would not be, like, the best example for all of this. So I've already told people that are telling me, like, yo, after the nationals, what are you gonna do? And then I already told them I want to take, like, a six, seven, eight month break. Don't even focus on powerlifting. I just want to build my body and make sure that I do this right. Because these people that I'm competing with, they have, like, 10 years on their body of built muscle. I'm coming here with just, like, four years of just barely learning how to even train at the gym. So I don't want to. Adam, I think you always talk about this. So in the question I just mentioned, my thought process is, even though I'm getting more skilled at driving the car, like, lifting all these three lifts. That's cool. But I am scared that potentially I am missing out on upgrading my parts, like, every single part of the car so that I can equal the skill of these lifts and all the parts of my body can actually handle the level that I want to achieve. I did put in the question that I do want to take the state record because people have told me I have the potential for it. But again, the last thing I want to do is chase it, knowing that I'm just skipping and might injure myself. So every single time I say this to somebody, especially if they've been power listing, they all look at me like I am crazy. They're like, what, you're gonna take a break from powerlifting specific programming? Like, what the hell? You're gonna. You're gonna miss out on growing your numbers. And for me, it's so hard to explain to them, like, I don't care about that crap. Like, eventually I'll probably get it, but am I doing a better. Like, is my thought process, even though it's longer, is that better than just continuously?

[Adam Schaefer]

Yes, yes.

[Sal DeStefano]

Based on what you, what you're saying. Yeah.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yes. You have the, you have the better thought. Just because these guys have been powerlifting for 10 years and have found it, what works for them is it's not necessarily ideal.

[Sal DeStefano]

The two sides of the coin here are if you want to be as competitive as possible in powerlifting, that was your goal and you're just like, I just want to be the best, strongest powerlifter ever, then, then train like a powerlifter. That's true. However, what that comes with is a lot of risks associated with that type of focus on that type of training. What I hear from you is, that's cool and I want that, but I, more than that, I don't want to get hurt. And more than that, I want longevity in my body. And with what you're saying, you have the right approach. So if your goal was to get the best numbers possible by nationals or by next year, then you got to train like a power lifter most of the time. And then you train in other ways to kind of support that. If you want longevity overall in your body and in overall empowerlifting, Right. You want to keep doing this and not suffer major injuries and your approach is right. So, yes, it will take you longer, but the risk of injury goes way down with your approach, which I think is the smart approach. But I also get the high competitive. Like, you know, there's a lot of guys out there that don't care. Like, I'll just take the risk and.

[Justin Andrews]

Get hurt by all means necessary.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah, and I get that too. I understand what that's like. But I think you have a very mature approach.

[Adam Schaefer]

I also think in the, I think in the long run, he wins in the like. If we were looking at a six month window and how, what's the fastest way to increase your numbers? Well, yeah, of course, sticking to the programming for just powerlifting for the next six months would give you the advantage per pound. But if you extended that goal out over five years, what's your goal five years from now? You're, I think you're, it may feel like yours would take longer, but you're more likely not only to do it safely, not get hurt, but I think you would actually surpass the numbers increase of the guy who decides, I'm just going to keep running Power lift over and over.

[Sal DeStefano]

I mean, look, that's, that's debatable, right? What you got to look at are the top powerlifters in the world, how, how they've always trained, trained and, and that. And what they do is they train a specific type of programming. Most of the time, that's just the way they train. So now our, we, we know how to train bodies and how to keep people from getting hurt and improve longevity with it all. But, yeah, I mean, to say that you're going to get better numbers in five years by doing what we're saying, that's if, you know, maybe there was a big injury that you avoid, who knows? But when I say longevity, I mean, like, you plan on lifting weights and having a body that moves well for the rest of your life. So I don't know if it's going to give you better numbers, but it definitely is better for you. So if you're like. Some people are like, look, the most important thing in the world is this trophy. Okay. But, you know, it sounds to me like you're like, the most important thing in my life is my family. And I like strength training and it feels good for that. I think you have the right approach, but if you go into the debate with powerlifting coaches and that's all they do, they're gonna, they're gonna tell you, look, you want the best numbers, you gotta train this particular way. I just don't think it's, you know.

[Adam Schaefer]

I mean, I, I would, I would openly have that debate. It's the same thing that somebody would told me in the competitive world of men's physique. Because this is the way. Because we've done it this way. Forever is a better way. And I disagree. Just because people have been doing it away for so long.

[Justin Andrews]

Forever.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah. And, and it's worked for them. Doesn't mean there is a better approach. I would make the argument that bolstering, like the analogy you gave, bolstering your car with better suspension and handling over time, I think you win.

[Justin Andrews]

Well, that's to mention all the straps and all the, you know, fitness aids and all the, you know, the chemical enhancements they need to add in because of their recovery. Such.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah, I mean, we could, we could debate this. I think, I think with Kevin, though, I think it's pretty clear what you want, and I think the direction that you're going is perfect with what you want.

[Doug]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, definitely. Like with what you said with the trophy. My trophy is the, I guess to show my kids, like A whole life that I never.

[Sal DeStefano]

That's right.

[Doug]

Knew about until late. And then the little flex is that along the way I've been able to learn from you guys and do it right. And you can, you can be strong. You be like, you could be not the hybrid athlete, but you can be everything into one. You just don't have to be so dang excessive with it.

[Sal DeStefano]

That's right. That's right. No, perfect.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah.

[Doug]

And then the, the other question, like the mini question to that is just the programming I was thinking of just doing is just after the competition performance, just so I can get back into the different planes of movement, then anabolic and then split before I would even.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah.

[Doug]

Go back to.

[Adam Schaefer]

I would switch, split with symmetry. That's what I would do.

[Doug]

Okay, okay.

[Adam Schaefer]

I think there, I think the. I think there's going to be tremendous value to doing, especially if the goal is to bolster your body unilateral work. And there's just more of that in symmetry than any of those other programs. And so I would go, I would do. I like anabolic and performance in there, but then I would add symmetry instead of split. It'll serve you more.

[Doug]

Okay, awesome. Thank you guys. And, and by the way, I just got to tell you guys, so my wife and I were attending like the, the M where we already are enrolled in the micro pump course.

[Sal DeStefano]

Nice.

[Doug]

And it's kind of crazy. I don't know if it's probably all you three. So we plan on. Part of why I even want to take a six, seven month break is because we really want to go into this, like full force. And we just have so much fulfillment because we're such latecomers to fitness that we do feel like how much it's changed us. And like we're like, oh my gosh, if only we knew this when we were younger. But we've already seen, of course, what happens with our kids. I want to tell you the really quick effect if I can. This is crazy. So you guys always mentioned, like, do it for free, you know, like close family, friends first. So our plan was to do that. We only wanted like five, six people because we have our careers right now, we have our kids. We don't really want to like, you know, try and make this a full time thing. It turned into 17 because of the people that were helping. Our whole focus with most of them is they're all like us. You guys always talk about, like, just treat all of this like skill mastery. And if you can master the skill within each of the Exercises, you will do better. All of that has made it much more enjoyable for everybody. All of the type of programming that we're telling them, like, yo, less is more. Don't kill yourself for five, six, seven days. We're all parents. They're all surprised with how much they're gaining with, like, one, two days a week. So it's like, we do have people. Like, we keep trying to push people off. Like, we don't want to charge yet. We're trying to keep it cool. But in the meantime, you know, maybe you could wait till maybe after the competition, but right now it's turning to 17. We're excited because this is like, the first time we've been hustlers. Like, hustlers in, like, the nicest way I could ever even say that. But we've never had fulfillment attached to it. And I think this is just, like, a beautiful thing that now our whole family can be a part of. And I'll try and say this slowly because my mom's outside this room. My mom never listens to me for anything. Like, even if it's like Adam, like, you guys would have. I would have to say all these guys, they're. They're professionals, and they train professional, I have to say, like, celebrities or something. They would listen to you because of that. They've never listened to me, but this is the first time ever my mom is actually on training, wants me to train her. She's been training four days a week through that starter program.

[Sal DeStefano]

Nice.

[Doug]

So I think this is just, like, all meant to be. And thank you guys, because I'm freaking excited about, like, what the heck is.

[Adam Schaefer]

That's awesome.

[Sal DeStefano]

Great to hear, dude.

[Adam Schaefer]

Very, very cool, bro.

[Sal DeStefano]

Good job, man.

[Adam Schaefer]

Very cool.

[Doug]

Thank you so much, guys. So, yeah, thank you for answering my question. That helped a lot, guys.

[Sal DeStefano]

You got it, dude.

[Justin Andrews]

Right on.

[Sal DeStefano]

Good luck on your competition, brother.

[Doug]

Thank you. Thank you. I have a good one.

[Sal DeStefano]

You got it. You know, I got to add, with your analogy of the physique world versus the strength world, it's so different because physique world is subjective. Powerlifting, Olympic lifting is as scientific as training gets for that sport. It's just. It's. It's all objective. And powerlifting has been around for decades, and there are schools that produce so many more champions than other schools because of their scientific approach. Same thing with Olympic lifting. So I would never debate a, like, a seasoned powerlifting coach who comes from a good school on, you know, this is going to give you the best squat, deadlift, and whatever, but when it comes to longevity and what Kevin's looking for, he's right, 100%. But I don't think that's the best way to be the most competitive powerlifter ever. I just don't. Because they've proven that through decades of objective numbers and producing some of the best athletes, injury risk is high.

[Justin Andrews]

I don't think in a small window.

[Adam Schaefer]

That's exactly what I'm saying. In a small window. You're right. So I said five years. I said five years for a reason. Because he's not talking about the next three to six months. You're right. And if you hired a powerlifting coach.

[Justin Andrews]

I wouldn't argue that either.

[Adam Schaefer]

And he's like, in six to nine months, I'm like, yeah, of course that is better. But you extend that to five years, I call bullshit.

[Sal DeStefano]

Well, I want to see what they would. I don't know what powerlifting programming looks like for five years. I do know that either They've really gotten pretty smart with some of it. Like Ed Cohn. Oh yeah. It's so scientific. And I know that he included hypertrophy training. I don't know how much I. Barbell. Yeah. I don't know how much you know, but these, these, I mean west side is very scientific with their, very scientific. But when I look at powerlifting like programming, it's done in like blocks, you know, I mean, so I don't know what it would look like over a five year period.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah, I mean the, the, the, the thought is that when you hire a powerlifting coach, you're hiring them to get you proficient in the three lifts. And that is the best approach to do that. It, no, by none of those guys say, oh, I'm also going to make you this healthy dad who's also mobile.

[Sal DeStefano]

No.

[Adam Schaefer]

Powerlifting. It's powerlifting. And so I would never debate the, the strength thing, but if you're talking about somebody who's going to for extend that for five, 10 years.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah, what he said, what he wants and what's important to him, he's right.

[Adam Schaefer]

I mean look at our examples of some of our friends that were like world class, like Ben Pul and stuff like that. They learned that the hard way. Yeah, he, I mean, no one's gonna debate. Yeah. Lane Norton, you're not, you're not gonna debate that. Those guys didn't understand the science of, of powerlifting and they weren't following an incredible protocol when it comes to that in order to hit these records. But what, what ends up happening to those Guys, five years down the road, Mark Bell.

[Justin Andrews]

I mean, yeah, they all get hurt. They all get hurt.

[Adam Schaefer]

They all get hurt because they're all. They're all approaching it a way that's been approached for max potential.

[Justin Andrews]

They got the highest.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yes, but that's the goal.

[Justin Andrews]

That's. Yeah, exactly.

[Sal DeStefano]

That's the goal. Like, you're gonna drive. You know you're gonna drive.

[Justin Andrews]

It's like what we're. I don't know, like, if we're gonna debate that, like, how much longer could they have kept producing?

[Adam Schaefer]

Longer.

[Sal DeStefano]

Longer is different. Different than max performance, right?

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah. And that's why I extended to five years. You extended five years and now you got a debate. Like, if you try to debate me over a year, like, okay, I'm not going to. I'm going to fight you or argue with you on that, but you're going to extend it to five, 10 years. I will debate that all day.

[Sal DeStefano]

Interesting to look and see what they did over those long periods of time. I've never seen power longer than, like, look at that.

[Justin Andrews]

See the longest powerlifter. Their career. Like, who had the longest career?

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Adam Schaefer]

And also, how long did that, that same coach work with that same athlete? Because I would imagine, at least in my experience of watching our peers do this, they typically go just like with bodybuilding. I've got a show in nine months or I got an event, I went in nine months. I hire a coach, they take me through it. Very rarely do you hear guys like, I've been with my same coach for five, six years lifting. It's normally for a specific meet that they're going to do, and they. And they approach it that way. So he's. He's got the right. Are those his numbers that you had?

[Justin Andrews]

Incredible. Right. For his weight.

[Adam Schaefer]

His weight and his. How early he's into this.

[Justin Andrews]

I know, it's pretty cool, dude.

[Adam Schaefer]

Incredible.

[Ryan Seacrest]

Our next caller is Jen from New Jersey.

[Sal DeStefano]

Hi, Jen.

[Adam Schaefer]

How you doing, Jen?

[Jen]

Hi, how are you?

[Adam Schaefer]

Morning.

[Sal DeStefano]

How can we help you?

[Jen]

Thanks for taking my question, by the way, and sorry in advance. You're going to be seeing a lot of dogs during this. During this call.

[Sal DeStefano]

That's all right.

[Justin Andrews]

I love dogs.

[Jen]

There are two of them here. Yeah. The reason why I wanted to reach out to you guys recently in my neighborhood, which is Hoboken, New Jersey, there's a lot of fitness here. We've been seeing these studios pop up that are called EMS studios, and they're like, you go there and they kind of strap these bands on your body and they kind of like, I guess, I don't know, zap you with electricity and theoretically stimulate your muscles. So my trainer, who's like a, you know, who's always up for trying, like, whatever the new thing is just to see how it goes, went a couple times, and she thought it was like, kind of fun. It hurts a little bit. It's about 25 minutes. They, you know, put bands on your arms, your chest, your legs, everything. And they kind of like can adjust each muscle group and then they give you electric shock. And so she. They gave her a few free sessions. She tried it. I tried a few sessions. I kind of can't really tell me. Very sore afterwards. You sweat. It's definitely hard. But I guess a bunch of us who sort of tried it are just wondering, like, is this legit or is this, like, what is it? It's not. It doesn't replace training, obviously. But, you know, we were kind of using it to top off what we're already doing, and we just. A bunch of us just were curious whether or it was a real thing or if it was kind of like smoke and mirrors.

[Sal DeStefano]

How are they using it, Jen? How are they using it? Are they putting them on you and then making you exercise while you get the stim. Or you just sit there?

[Justin Andrews]

Compound lifts or just. No.

[Jen]

So you. So there's a. There's like a machine that's sort of a device that has kind of like a place that you can hold onto, and they give you squeezy balls. They put you in a vest. And the straps, they make them wet. And then you, like, you go through like, kind of very slowly, like squats, lunges, you know, like, sort of like you very, very slowly do the. Do the kind of like exercises while they kind of like ratchet up the stimulation.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah. So the studies on this are pretty interesting. They are. They do increase muscle fiber activation and they seem to cause better gains than without using them. It's not a huge effect, but it's enough to be significant in a study. That being said, the way they market them is bullshit. So I see in your email here that it says that it gives you four hours of muscle stimulation exercises in 20 minutes.

[Jen]

That's what they say. So we were like, is this really true or is this. Or is this, you know, is this sort of hype or is there anything happening at all?

[Sal DeStefano]

No. Yeah, something's happening and it's gonna give you a little more than you would.

[Justin Andrews]

Normally get an external signal for sure, but it's not.

[Sal DeStefano]

It's not like this huge crazy effect. And if you do the cost average, it's probably not worth it, but yeah, no, it's not giving you four hours of exercise, you know, effects in 20 minutes, that's baloney.

[Adam Schaefer]

It's cool. The science is cool. It's a neat niche. It's novel. So overrated. That's what I would say. But if I, if I had one laying around and it was in the gym like you, you could find me messing with it with my buddies and like, oh, let's do a workout. But to, to get, I could only imagine like strapping up into that.

[Justin Andrews]

I can only see a very small window of effectiveness with the people.

[Sal DeStefano]

The way you do it makes a big difference too. So way that I, that I would use it was I would put it on me and then I would do a barbell exercise with it. I, I, you know, I wouldn't, well.

[Adam Schaefer]

I'll tell you, I'll tell you where I think the most effective way to use something like this would be rehabbing somebody from an injury because you can take them through, historically you could take them through a body weight exercise and make their body feel like they trained really heavy and that during a recovery of an injury that could be tremendously valuable. So let's say I was, I had a very high end athlete or somebody who's in the bodybuilding world who's in incredible shape and they tore their Achilles and they've been rehabbing it and getting, and we're okay. The doctor would probably want us to stay off of it still for another month or two, but we're gonna go ahead and start do some of these exercises with no weight, just our body weight. And I'm going to stand that. I could see a huge benefit to that, to that athlete.

[Sal DeStefano]

Jen, you, you exercise regularly anyway, right?

[Jen]

I do. And so there's, it seems to be there are two kind of camps of people. Like when we go in there we see like a bunch of sort of like, like elderly people who are doing this as their workout. Like if they're marketing it as like this is their exercise. So you'll see like 70 year old people that are kind of just sort of, I guess that this is what they're doing in place of exercise. And then there are other people like, you know, me and a couple of friends who work out regularly. You know, we're like, we're always up to try something new that looks fun or cool or different. So it was kind of treating it as a top off like of just our regular it's not replacing anything.

[Sal DeStefano]

Well, I'll tell you, here's where I would. If you were my client, Jen, because you already work out, you're already consistent. I like the 70 year olds doing it, by the way. I think that's cool and I think for fun, it's cool. Here's how I would use if you were my client, if you had a body part that you had difficulty connecting to, if you're like, hey man, it's really hard for me to feel my glutes when I squat, then I would use this on your glutes while you squat just to give you the sense, the feeling of what it feels like to really contract the glutes appropriately. But doing a lot, doing a full body workout on this on top of your current workout. Too much, that could be good, it could be bad. I mean, if you tend to train yourself like to the limit anyway. If you're one of those fanatics that's like, yeah, I could probably get better results if I trained a little less. Then I wouldn't just add another workout. And I see the face you made, so I get that impression, right?

[Jen]

It's interesting because I did it with my boyfriend the first time and he's like a big strong man and he's a runner and he did it and he absolutely hated it. He almost died. They had to give him a lollipop afterwards. He was sitting on the floor, he was like, it's way too much. And I did it and I was like, okay, I'm kind of sore. But I was of course interested because he said, oh, four hours worth of hypertrophy training in 25 minutes. That sounds like pretty good, but it also sounds like a little too good. So he refuses to go back. But I've been going for like six weeks once a week. And the only downside, I would say is I am like pretty sore afterwards. So I usually do it on a day when the next two days I have like just yoga or something. It's like Friday and I'm just gonna do yoga on the weekend. I don't do it before a big workout or whatever, but I can't tell if it's my regular workouts that are giving. I'm happy with my results, but I can't tell if it's this or if it's just from being consistent or whatever. But it definitely, it's hard. Like you feel it afterwards, you sweat, you're tired, you're dehydrated afterwards. Like it's doing something for sure.

[Sal DeStefano]

Well, you get tired and you'd be dehydrated and sweaty if I just had you jump in place real fast, too. That doesn't mean it's doing anything necessarily. Are you getting stronger in your normal workouts? That's a no.

[Doug]

If you're.

[Jen]

If you're not.

[Adam Schaefer]

No.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

It's just obvious.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah. If you just added this for six weeks, you're like, my lifts went up 15 pounds. I'm like, okay, this is working. But if you're just. If it's not doing anything except making you sore, then you're wasting your time.

[Doug]

Yeah.

[Jen]

Okay, good to know.

[Adam Schaefer]

All right, great.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

It's a good metric.

[Sal DeStefano]

That's it.

[Jen]

Okay, thank you so much.

[Sal DeStefano]

Thank you so much for calling in.

[Adam Schaefer]

All right, Jen, take care.

[Jen]

Bye.

[Sal DeStefano]

Bye. Bye, bye, bye.

[Adam Schaefer]

You know, that is why.

[Sal DeStefano]

What. Bullshit marketing. Four hours of workouts.

[Adam Schaefer]

And you know what? It. Okay. The person who gets, like, addicted to this thing or thinks is. Is. That's just it. We still. We still connect soreness and how hard a workout is with how effective it is.

[Justin Andrews]

Yes. I got soreness and sweating and that.

[Adam Schaefer]

That's coming from somebody who's been lifting for a very long time and is. Is very experienced. We still tend to do that. People still think, because it hurts, because it's hard, because I sweat, because I'm sore as hell. Yeah, it must be a really good workout. And it's like, no, that's not true at all.

[Sal DeStefano]

It's so funny because I remember when boot camps first became popular, people would be like, oh, my God, it's so hard. They're yelling at you. They're hammering you. It's like, I almost.

[Adam Schaefer]

I threw up.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah. What are you talking about?

[Justin Andrews]

Did you get stronger?

[Sal DeStefano]

By the way, the reason why people are so sore on this is the eccentric on. This is amplified. Like, you're lowering and it's contracting. It's like a lot of muscle damage.

[Justin Andrews]

It just sounds like you could overdo it so easy.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

It just doesn't. Yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

And of course, at the end, I'm.

[Adam Schaefer]

Like, I love it. Like I said, for rehab.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah.

[Adam Schaefer]

If I had a client.

[Sal DeStefano]

It's always been used for rehab. They've done that forever.

[Justin Andrews]

Body weight. Yeah. That makes sense.

[Adam Schaefer]

It makes it. It makes total sense where you could. I mean, I. I'm sure. Actually, I wouldn't be surprised if this is what got this popular again, is I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of your professional athletes use it.

[Justin Andrews]

Oh, yeah, you got astronauts too, right?

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah. You have Steph Curry right now, who in, in the middle of playoffs, goes down with a, a hamstring strain and they want him back in the game by next week. It's like that would normally take the rest of us six to eight weeks to be back. Sure.

[Justin Andrews]

Katy Perry did it before her, she.

[Sal DeStefano]

Totally went into space.

[Ryan Seacrest]

Our next caller is John from Virginia.

[Sal DeStefano]

John, what's happening?

[Justin Andrews]

What's up, John?

[Chris]

Hey, how's it going, guys? Pretty surreal talking to you guys. Appreciate you taking the time to answer my question. Been a long time listener and pretty much the only podcast I listen to. Came for the fitness, stayed for the fatherhood and everything else. So really like what you guys have out there.

[Sal DeStefano]

Thanks, man.

[Adam Schaefer]

Sean.

[Chris]

All right, so my question is going to be kind of in regards to recovery and recovery equipment and how best to utilize it. So a little bit about my background. So I'm 34, I've been lifting about 12 years. I typically do a upper lower split twice a week with a recovery day in between or trigger session, active rest, something like that. And right now, pre workout I'll do kind of mobility, some priming. Post workout I'll do some static stretching, some sauna and all that. And then on my days off, just try and focus on a little extra recovery. But now as I'm aging 34, have a family prone to injury, I'm trying to focus a little more on recovery. And the new gym I started going to has a ton of recovery resources that I hear you guys talk about a lot. So they have the Normatec compression boost, the hydro massage chair, cryotherapy chair, red light therapy, and they have sauna, hot tub. So I'm just trying to understand how I should best utilize all those well to enhance my goals, keep progressing in the gym and everything. I don't want to use them as a crutch though, because I feel like for the most part I have my recovery in check. I'm hitting my protein goal daily. I'm getting about 10,000 steps a day. I was at nine hours of sleep a night, but we just had a newborn two weeks ago, so now it's down to maybe seven. But for the most part, I think my recovery is there. I'm keeping hydrated to element pretty regularly and the recovery is important to me because like you saw kind of newborn Christian there and I spend that recovery time doing a lot of spiritual, daily devotional and stuff. So any kind of input on how I could use that time because maximize my pre or post workout time or active rest days using those resources.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah, your last bit, you just said there would would change the way I answer it just because of that. In fact, I would say because what you're doing already in my opinion is great. Is great. And so if you said that you're using this as a spiritual practice time also for yourself, I would say which one is most conducive for that? Do you feel like when you're in the sauna it's more relaxing and you can, you feel better connected and you feel like you're more consistent with doing that? I think there's a tremendous value to that. If you feel like it's laying there in the, in the Normatec boots are the times when you do that because you said that at the end that that's a priority and what you're kind of, I think that you're already checking the big boxes of like recovery, actively walking, getting enough rest, adequate protein, like balanced workout. You're, I mean I think you're doing a great job.

[Sal DeStefano]

I got, you know, I, I, I can be get real specific. I love what you said Adam and I could get real specific with this you. By the way, congratulations on your new new baby. Thanks.

[Chris]

Second one, so.

[Sal DeStefano]

Oh, good for you, man. So, okay, so a couple things. Your sleep went down. I think you would, you would right now best if you move from upper lower four day a week workout to a three day full body routine. I think taking that one day off will make a big difference especially because I know what it's like when you have a new kid and it's going to be like that for about a year. So I think three days a week you won't lose any gains. If anything, you might even see some improvements. And then as far as your recovery, I could tell you what the data shows and I actually think it's going to be in line with what Adam says as well. Of all the things you mentioned, the one that's probably going to make the biggest recovery impact aside from getting more sleep, that's always number one is going to be the sauna. Now I like the sauna for spiritual work too because you can't take your phone in the sauna. Now you can sit in your Normatec boots. I don't know how you are with your phone. I know for me it's like it calls my name out whenever it's near me. And so if I had Normatec boots on or if I'm standing in front of a red light I could get on my phone. But in the sauna it'll kill your phone. Your phone will shut off. After so many minutes because it's so hot. So I like the sauna. Go in the sauna, sit in there for 20 minutes, 30 minutes if you can handle it. And that's where you could do your prayer. That's where you could do your, your, you know, you can meditate on scripture. And it's also, the data shows it's probably the most effective for recovery as.

[Adam Schaefer]

Well and longevity and overall everything. So it's. I, I agree. I'm, I'm on board with that and I love the idea. I didn't even think about switching you from a split to a. Oh yeah, full body. The extra day of rest and just the mix up of being a guy who does splits normally. Switching to a full body, you might see nice gains.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah. And so the way it would look with your three, with your full body workout is you would, you would kind of hit. So how much volume are you doing for let's say, let's say chest. How many sets do you do twice a week?

[Chris]

So I'll do five and another three. Eight, maybe 12.

[Sal DeStefano]

Total or twice a week?

[Chris]

12 total.

[Sal DeStefano]

Oh, 12 sets total. Perfect.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah, it's nice.

[Sal DeStefano]

So here's what you do. Do three sets per body part three days a week. So you're gonna drop the sets down to nine. You're doing full body Monday, Wednesday, Friday. You'll probably see gains anyway, but I think that'll be more appropriate with the reduction.

[Adam Schaefer]

What I, what I love about that recommendation too is you're taking him from four days of lifting in the gym with the one day recovery in between. You just add another day of recovery training. So now you go three. You're still going to the gym, same amount of time. So you're five days.

[Sal DeStefano]

That's right.

[Adam Schaefer]

But now two of those days are focused on the kind of recovery type stuff and three of it's on the full body. I think that would do you well right now.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yep.

[Chris]

Okay. And I had done Anabolic before for the three day kind of full body. If I had done, if I switched to Anabolic Advanced, would that be too much or is that something I could look at for the three day option?

[Sal DeStefano]

I think no, it's not. It's more. But I would do Anabolic Advanced when your sleep gets back to normal.

[Chris]

Okay.

[Sal DeStefano]

And then you, you know, want to kind of push it. Anabolic Advanced is, is definitely high intensity, but Anabolic style, three day a week workout would be, would be great.

[Chris]

Okay. Awesome. Yeah, that answers it. I, I kind of was doing mainly the sauna and then Just the new gym, which just kind of felt a little overwhelming with all that. And then I just know there's like a lot back and forth about kind of like cold plunge and temperature stuff. So I wasn't sure if like going on the cryotherapy chair and doing something cold, this was like right after my workouts, kind of like slow down recovery and stuff. But yeah, I appreciate what you guys said. That sounds like a good strategy and plan.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah. No, sauna is the best of all of it. If I had to pick, you know, the cold is great, but cold is more of a stress than sauna.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah.

[Adam Schaefer]

And I would use. So there's, there's ways to use the other ones for specific things. For example, like if you overreached, then I, I think the cryo and cold would do good for speeding up the recovery time. Right. So if you, if you had a day where, let's say, I think the, the recommendation of the sauna twice a week is awesome. And that's, that's gonna also double as the thing for meditation also is gonna double as the thing that's best for you, longevity wise in comparison, all those. But then let's say you overdid it on one of your workouts and you're feeling it, you're really sore that day. That might be a day you do the cold plunge or do the cryo to help speed up that, that specific recovery because you overreached. But generally speaking, I, I agree. I think the sauna is the, is the play.

[Sal DeStefano]

That's the way to do it.

[Chris]

Awesome, thanks. Glad to hear that. And can I ask one other quick thing in regards to kind of like hydration and.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah, go for it. Element.

[Chris]

Okay. So I've been doing element. I was kind of unsure about it because I do have high blood pressure and take medication for that. So I wasn't sure if the extra sodium is bad or if that's something I should be asking my general practitioner about or if you know anything about the, what the data says about that.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah. So. Okay, that's great. I'm glad you told me that sauna is going to be the best thing you do. Blood pressure, that's the best thing you can do. I would ask them what they thought first. Ask them their advice. Electrolyte usage, especially high sodium. If you sweat a lot and what, you know, like, like going into the sauna, it's probably a good idea to have it in there. Yeah. With you.

[Chris]

Okay.

[Sal DeStefano]

But you would definitely need to check with your doctor to see if this is Something that they would want you to be careful with.

[Chris]

Okay, sounds good.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah. You got it, man.

[Chris]

All right, Thanks a lot. Appreciate it.

[Sal DeStefano]

You got it, brother. Congratulations again.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yep, thanks.

[Chris]

See ya.

[Sal DeStefano]

Sounds like a cool gym he goes to. Yeah, he's got all kinds of stuff.

[Adam Schaefer]

He's got all kinds of toys.

[Sal DeStefano]

If you have, if you, anybody listening? If you have the choice between all of those things. Of course, you know, there's always, you know, situations where one is better than the other. But generally speaking, overall, with the mountains of data and stuff that is like sauna.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

For continual use too. Just, I mean, like, like you kind of mentioned if you have like days you really overreached or. Yeah, that. I think, like cold is, is a great option for that.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah. For a very specific thing. Those are very cool to use that. But I think I shared with you guys. I was listening to a, an interview that Peter Attia did and one of the questions that was asked was like, you know, is there anything you've changed your mind or opinion on? And he's like, yeah, the, the. I, I used to think that sauna use was overrated or whatever. He goes, but what the research says.

[Sal DeStefano]

Especially when you said the best blood pressure, it's like vascular health. Oh, my God, man. It's like, it's like sauna will positively affect your vascular system. Like exercise.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah, it's pretty crazy. It's awesome.

[Ryan Seacrest]

Our next caller is Chris from New Hampshire.

[Sal DeStefano]

What's up, Chris?

[Justin Andrews]

What's happening?

[Kevin]

Hey, how's it going, guys?

[Sal DeStefano]

Good, man. How can we help you?

[Kevin]

Good. So first off, thank you for, you know, just taking my call and, you know, just the opportunity to be on the show is, is a little bit surreal for me. You know, I've been listening to the show for, for five or six years now, and it's just, it's awesome to see you guys in person.

[Sal DeStefano]

Thank you.

[Justin Andrews]

Killer.

[Kevin]

So do you want me to ask my question then provide some context?

[Adam Schaefer]

Sure. Yep. Let's hear it.

[Kevin]

All right, so the essence of my question is how does one know when they're ready to ramp up their training volume? I'm 32 years old. You could say I'm a career over trainer. 8ish years ago, I was really into the OCR scene, training with some insane volume, like running 50 miles in a week in addition to, you know, lifting and hit workouts.

[Adam Schaefer]

Oh, wow.

[Kevin]

It was, yeah, it was a little crazy. I'm proud of my accomplishments. But eventually my body did revolt and I was forced to drastically reduce my training and focus on Mobility and mastering movement patterns. When I started to feel and move better, I started doing traditional weightlifting because I had stumbled upon your podcast and I bought a few Maps programs since I continued lifting without any significant issues and saw a lot of great gains from focusing on lifting. About seven months ago I came to the realization that I was over training again because I had some of the negative side effects that you guys frequently talk about in association with overtraining. My libido was down. I was waking up in the middle of the night wide awake. I'd wake up with night sweats, kind of, those kind of things. So I did a cycle of maps 15 to reduce volume and just the overall stress and I noticed almost immediate positive results. I was sleeping through the night, libido was a lot better and I wasn't ending the day feeling completely wiped out. So this is where the context is a little slightly different from my original email. I wrapped up Maps 15 around the end of March. Took an additional deload week before starting Maps Strong. You guys have been talking about the benefits of non traditional lifts around that time and I figured it would be a good program to phase in instead of going into Power lift. I do eventually want to hit a 500 pound deadlift, but I'm not. That's taking a side to the side burner for now. I got through the first phase of Strong, but I ended up getting sick for a couple of weeks. Weeks and which kind of stopped the process. And then I had two weeks in between feeling better and going on a trip to Aruba with my wife, during which I did a few Maps 15 workouts to just kind of stay in things. I restarted phase one of Strong this week, but ended up cutting out the third set of most of the exercises in the first foundational workout because I didn't want to overload myself from going almost or from almost nothing to, you know, the normal program sets and reps. I figured I would do that for this first week, see how it goes, and then ramp up the full sets in week two or three if I was feeling well. So I really just wanted to hear your advice and kind of sanity check the process. I'm not trying to do too much too fast smart, but I'm curious how you guys would assess whether or not someone is ready to ramp up the volume going from 15 to strong or from 15 to really any other program.

[Sal DeStefano]

That's a good question. Let me ask you this. Were you getting stronger in mass 15?

[Doug]

Yeah, definitely.

[Sal DeStefano]

Okay. And so you got stronger throughout the program up until the end.

[Kevin]

Yes.

[Sal DeStefano]

Keep doing it, keep doing it. Yeah. You know, I think a lot of times we get excited and then we want to add more and more and more. By the way, if you're getting stronger, just so you know, you are progressing your volume. So if you do a lift and then you know, by the end of the, the program it's 20 pounds heavier.

[Justin Andrews]

You'Ve added volume, progressively overloading.

[Sal DeStefano]

You've already progressively added volume, so. And because of your history, I mean, you could stay in that probably for a full another cycle and then jump to, to something like strong.

[Adam Schaefer]

You can also slow performance versions. Yeah, do the. I like that. I agree with everything you're saying. And you could also ease your way up volume wise through that program. For example, let's say you've, you're on the second round of it and it's been going great. You're like, man, I feel good. You know, maybe try adding one exercise, that's it. Or two sets. There you go, you know, that's it. And then like, then really. And stick to that for a while and evaluate. Oh man, I'm feeling good. I'm seeing gain still. Okay, maybe add two more and just keep slowly ramping up on, on 15. Such a good low level of volume to start, especially for someone that's a chronic over trainer. And then you just inch your way up. But just be honest with yourself because sometimes guys like us that, that are, that tend to go that way. We convince ourselves, oh, I'm feeling good. Yeah, I'll do more, I'll do more. Oh yeah, it's working. And then you realize like, oh, maybe it's not. Maybe, maybe that's just.

[Justin Andrews]

Well, do you just have an itch to do more? Like, do you want to do more? Is that what, what it's all about?

[Kevin]

To a certain extent, yes. It just, it feels like a natural progression for me to say, you know, I finished maths 15, I'm feeling good. You know, let's experiment with, you know, another program, see how that kind of goes. And if it, you know, if it goes poorly, then kind of going back to 15 and going through another cycle of that like you guys are suggesting.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah, there's nothing wrong with that.

[Justin Andrews]

Wrong with that.

[Sal DeStefano]

There's nothing. You just got to be able to know what your body's telling you. But you know, look, here's how you view adding. This is how adding volume should be done. And here's how. And then there's also how people typically do it, which is wrong. So I'll start With the last. The latter. Here's how people traditionally tend to add volume. They'll go, okay, I'm doing five sets per body part. So now I'm going to add volume. I'm going to do seven sets per body part. Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. You just added more volume to everything. Okay. So the right way to do it would be like, I'm gonna add volume next week. I'm gonna go seven sets for this one body part and I'm gonna stay like that for a while. And now I'm gonna go up two more sets for another body part. Not all of them at the same time. You see what I'm saying? It's a huge bump in volume.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah. When people, not to mention those same people are, if they're getting stronger, are naturally adding volume already. So you have to keep taking, you know, here's a, like a, A thought is. And is how I approach, how I approach training is I'm gonna do the least amount to list the most change for as long as I can. So if 15's giving me return and it's the second or third time, I'm gonna keep running it.

[Sal DeStefano]

That's right.

[Adam Schaefer]

And then, then eventually you will get really strong, really proficient for that low of volume and then go, okay, now. And then you take Sal's advice of just pick a muscle group. Hey, you know what? I wanna work a little more on my shoulders. I'm gonna add a, you know, I'm gonna add a shoulder exercise to this routine. Or I'm going to add two more sets to the already shoulder exercises and that's it. And then reap the benefits for that for the next month or so. And you know, so, so step up like that versus I think I can handle more. Let's just do more. It's like, well, why don't you keep squeezing that orange if you're getting juice out of it? If you're still getting juice from the.

[Justin Andrews]

15, because that's what you did pre. Previous to this. Right. Like, you were always like the high volume and running that for a long period of time. This is a fairly new stimulus for, for you. Your body's obviously enjoying the process of it, you know.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

Try trying to extend that a little bit. Makes. Makes sense to me.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah. And again, you're. If you're getting stronger, the volume's already added.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yep.

[Sal DeStefano]

So you can, you can say to yourself, oh, wow, I added volume this week because I did another rep or I went five pounds heavier. But yeah, the, the, the idea. And I know what Happens mentality wise, it's like, oh, I want to add volume to my whole body. But what happens? You get no return on everything then. Right. So pick that one area, add it there and see what happens. Unless the volume's already been added. And people don't count that. They only count sets. They don't count that they did an extra rep or they added weight. That's all added volume.

[Kevin]

Right? Yeah, that. That actually totally makes sense.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah. Good. By the way, look at your whole. Your. Your whole fitness journey. Like this. Most of it is cruising. Like 90%, maybe even 95% is cruising. Then you got five to set. 10% sprints.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah, we throttle every.

[Sal DeStefano]

Now everybody does the opposite. 90% sprint, then they cruise when they're forced to. Then, oh, 10% of time. I'm chilling. I'm doing deload week. Well, I add up all your deload weeks, it makes up like 5% of all your training. It should look like cruising with little sprints in between. That's how you get consistent progress.

[Kevin]

Right, right. And Another thing, about 15, it was just. It was nice to go in to the gym, spend like the 15 minutes, and then afterwards, just have that time with my wife, you know, spending time with family, spending time with friends and not being consumed because, like, I'm at work or I'm up for work at 5:30 in the morning, and I don't get home till about five at night. And so that's after. That would be my gym time. So I'm trying to get in, get out, get back to my family.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah, dude, you got even more reason.

[Justin Andrews]

Exactly.

[Sal DeStefano]

You got kids too?

[Kevin]

No, no. Just don't kiss my wife.

[Sal DeStefano]

All right. So you'll have kids soon, too. Like, your. Your fitness will make you better at everything. Unless your fitness is your top priority, then it makes everything worse.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah. So true. You're doing good, Chris.

[Justin Andrews]

Yep.

[Kevin]

Awesome. Thanks, guys.

[Sal DeStefano]

You got it, man. Thanks for calling in. Yeah, I wish I knew this as younger. I wish I knew. And I even struggle with it now because I just love working out so much. But, you know, when I was a kid, if I added volume, it was to everything. Yeah, I know. And if I got stronger, it was always all at once and getting stronger. I never. I never thought that that was more volume.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

I was like, I'm doing the same three sets. Well, yeah, dude, you're doing with twice as much weight. What do you think's gonna happen? You know, it's much more difficult.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah. For the audience if you. If you're following something like Mass 15. And it's showing you return. You're getting stronger to your point. You're adding volume that you don't ne. You don't need to change a thing.

[Sal DeStefano]

No.

[Adam Schaefer]

And I'm gonna, I'm gonna ride that as long as I can. I'm gonna like, if I'm still getting juice out of it, it's like, hey, this is awesome. I'm only doing two exercises a day and I'm seeing gains. I'm getting stronger. Ride that and then eventually you will. You eventually will peak. Max out what you're doing with that amount of volume. And then you do what you said, you pick a muscle group and you go, hey, I'm gonna add two sets. You know what I'm saying? And that's it. And then you ride that way for a while and that you stairstep like that. And that lays. That sets you up for the next few years of like consistent gains. But what we do is we jump right away to what we can tolerate. And then. And the worst part about that, that I think is important to explain the audience is what's deceiving is let's say he was doing 15 and like I said, and then he goes to like Maps ped and the first like three weeks that he actually sees some results, like he gets. He feels a little stronger, but he's doing so much more. And then it's really quick. That body plateaus that. And then where does he go from there?

[Sal DeStefano]

Backwards.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah, backwards. And so it's like you're just. Because. And it can be deceiving sometimes when someone does that because they can tolerate it and maybe they even see some positive change. But that it was the right amount.

[Sal DeStefano]

It's crazy to me because even at the highest level of athletics, we're. Millions of dollars are on the line. They have a. They have preseason training. They have in season training and off season training. Yeah, like NBA players and NFL and NHL. They don't train hardcore all the time. It's actually a small.

[Justin Andrews]

Constantly touch the muscle groups just to keep that strength.

[Sal DeStefano]

I mean, when I used to train people, even my most consistent clients, like people who like kind of kept everything dialed in. When they hired me, they saw strength gains relatively consistently for three years. You know, Doug got stronger consistently for almost about three years, working out two or three days a week at most for about three years. It was consistent strengthening. So there's a lot of Runway look. If you like the show, come find us on Instagram. Justin is at mindpumpjustin I'm at Mind Pump distefano Adams mindpump thank you for.

[Ryan Seacrest]

Listening to Mind Pump. If your goal is to build and shape your body, dramatically, improve your health and energy and maximize to optimize your overall performance, check out our discounted RGB super [e-mail] the RGB Super Bundle includes Maps, Anabolic Maps, Performance and Maps Aesthetic nine months of phased expert exercise programming designed by Sal, Adam and Justin to systematically transform the way your body looks, feels and performs with detailed workout blueprints and over 200 videos. The RGB Super Bundle is like having Sal, Adam and Justin as your own personal trainers, but at a fraction of the price. The RGB Super Bundle has a full 30 day money back guarantee and you can get it now. Plus other valuable free [e-mail] if you enjoy this show, please share the love by leaving us a five star rating and review on itunes and by interest introducing Mind Pump to your friends and family. We thank you for your support and until next time, this is Mind Pump.