2614: The Top 5 Fitness Tips from Soviet-Era Scientists & More (Listener Live Coaching)

Summary

Podcast Summary: Mind Pump: Raw Fitness Truth – Episode 2614

Title: The Top 5 Fitness Tips from Soviet-Era Scientists & More (Listener Live Coaching)
Hosts: Sal Di Stefano, Adam Schafer, Justin Andrews
Produced by: Doug Egge
Release Date: June 6, 2025

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Introduction

In Episode 2614 of Mind Pump: Raw Fitness Truth, hosts Sal Di Stefano, Adam Schafer, and Justin Andrews delve into the scientifically-backed fitness strategies pioneered by Soviet-era scientists. Emphasizing evidence-based approaches, the hosts contrast these methods with contemporary Western practices, highlighting how the Soviets advanced strength training, periodization, and recovery techniques. Additionally, the episode features live listener coaching, addressing real-world fitness and entrepreneurial challenges.

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Top 5 Fitness Tips from Soviet-Era Scientists

1. Progressive Overload with Systematic Increments

The Soviet training methodology emphasized a disciplined approach to progressive overload, advocating for small, consistent weight increases rather than large, sporadic jumps.

• Sal Di Stefano (04:15): "The Soviets looked at it and it was very systematic. They would add in increments of two and a half to five pounds and stay at that weight for two weeks before increasing again."

This method ensures sustained progress without overtaxing the body, allowing for better long-term gains.

2. Structured Periodization

Soviet scientists implemented meticulous periodization, breaking training into mesocycles and microcycles to optimize performance and prevent burnout.

• Sal Di Stefano (08:20): "They periodized their athletes in a very systematic way, planning intensity and volume over weeks and months to maximize adaptation."

By adhering to a structured schedule, athletes could peak at the right times, particularly for competitions.

3. Emphasis on Compound Movements

Prioritizing compound exercises was a cornerstone of Soviet training, ensuring maximum muscle engagement and functional strength.

• Sal Di Stefano (13:07): "Compound movements just give you so much more bang for your buck."

This focus not only enhances strength but also improves overall athletic performance.

4. Active Recovery Over Passive Rest

Contrary to the common belief that complete rest fosters recovery, the Soviets advocated for active recovery to accelerate the healing and adaptation process.

• Sal Di Stefano (16:07): "Your body recovers faster through light movement. Even if your legs are sore, light walking can speed up recovery."

Light activities like walking or stretching help maintain blood flow, facilitating quicker recovery.

5. Meticulous Tracking and Data Analysis

The Soviet approach was highly data-driven, meticulously tracking every detail from reps and sets to sleep and nutrition to refine training protocols.

• Sal Di Stefano (20:44): "Tracking allows you to see what's working and what isn't, providing a clear picture beyond subjective measures like the scale or mirror."

This precision enables tailored adjustments, maximizing efficiency and results.

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Applying Soviet Strategies to MAPS Programs

The hosts relate Soviet training principles to their own MAPS (Maximal Allocation Programming System) programs, illustrating how these time-tested methods are integrated into modern fitness regimens.

• Adam Schafer (09:50): "For example, our MAPS Anabolic program phases through low reps, moderate reps, and higher reps, similar to Soviet periodization."

By adopting these scientifically-backed strategies, MAPS programs offer structured and effective training paths for users.

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Listener Live Coaching

The episode features live coaching sessions where listeners call in with their fitness and entrepreneurial queries. Two notable calls include:

1. Zoe Saldana: Distinguishing Hunger from Cravings

Timestamp: [57:57] – [70:04]

Question: Zoe seeks advice on differentiating between genuine hunger signals and emotional or habitual cravings, especially as she adjusts her caloric intake.

Insights & Recommendations:

• Sal Di Stefano (58:48): "Cravings are specific desires for certain foods, whereas hunger is a general need for nutrients."

• Adam Schafer (68:41): "Bumping up your fat intake might help reduce feelings of hunger."

Notable Quote:

• Sal Di Stefano (68:18): "What you're feeling is your body wanting to build muscle and needing more nutrients. Give it another couple hundred calories."

Zoe's progress illustrates the importance of listening to bodily cues and adjusting nutrition accordingly for optimal health and performance.

2. Ryan Seacrest (Colin): Developing Thick Skin as a Trainer

Timestamp: [70:00] – [99:09]

Question: Colin, a personal trainer facing challenges with client retention, seeks strategies to develop resilience and improve client relationships.

Insights & Recommendations:

• Sal Di Stefano (87:29): "Everything is your fault, and you will never have all the answers. Embrace vulnerability and understand that not every client will succeed."

• Adam Schafer (93:08): "You're overtraining and trying to cut calories excessively. Prioritize health over competition."

Notable Quote:

• Sal Di Stefano (85:16): "There are two truths: Everything is your fault, and you will never have all the answers. Embrace these to keep improving."

Colin's interaction underscores the balance between professional dedication and personal well-being, emphasizing the importance of sustainable practices over short-term gains.

3. Gage from Hawaii: Balancing Multiple Ventures and Training

Timestamp: [99:08] – [111:44]

Question: Gage, an entrepreneur and fitness enthusiast, seeks advice on managing multiple business ventures while maintaining effective training routines.

Insights & Recommendations:

• Sal Di Stefano (104:00): "Push forward with the passion project. At 25, you have the energy and flexibility to focus on what you're most passionate about."

• Justin Andrews (109:31): "Treat training as a skill and enjoy the learning process rather than focusing solely on gains."

Notable Quote:

• Sal Di Stefano (104:27): "Pick the thing you're passionate about and go for it. Give yourself a year to see if it's the right fit."

Gage's scenario highlights the importance of prioritizing passion and leveraging youthful energy to build a successful entrepreneurial and fitness journey.

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Key Takeaways and Conclusions

1. Scientific Training Methods Enhance Results: Incorporating Soviet-era strategies like systematic progressive overload, structured periodization, and compound movements can significantly improve strength and performance.

2. Active Recovery and Meticulous Tracking are Essential: Engaging in light movement during rest periods and diligently tracking progress ensures efficient recovery and continuous improvement.

3. Adaptation to Individual Needs: Understanding personal signals, such as differentiating hunger from cravings, and adjusting training programs accordingly leads to sustainable health and fitness outcomes.

4. Resilience and Continuous Learning for Trainers: Developing thick skin, embracing vulnerability, and maintaining a growth mindset are crucial for personal trainers to thrive and support their clients effectively.

5. Prioritizing Passion in Entrepreneurship: Focusing on ventures that align with one's passion and allowing adequate time to assess their viability fosters long-term success and fulfillment.

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Final Thoughts

Episode 2614 of Mind Pump: Raw Fitness Truth offers a comprehensive exploration of advanced fitness methodologies rooted in Soviet scientific research, seamlessly blending them with modern training programs. Through insightful discussions and real-life coaching scenarios, the hosts provide actionable advice for both fitness enthusiasts and professionals aiming to optimize their health, performance, and entrepreneurial endeavors.

For more detailed training protocols and expert guidance, listeners are encouraged to explore MAPS programs and engage with the Mind Pump community on social media platforms.

Transcript

[Sal Di Stefano]

Hi, Zoe Saldana.

[Adam Schaefer]

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[Sal Di Stefano]

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[Adam Schaefer]

Plus we'll help you pay off your old phone. Up to 800 bucks and you still get to keep it.

[Sal Di Stefano]

There's always a trade in. Not right now. At T Mobile. I feel like I have to give you something in return for karma. That's okay. I don't really have much in my purse. Oh, let's see. Hand sanitizer. It's lavender.

[Adam Schaefer]

I'm good. Seriously. Let me check this pocket.

[Sal Di Stefano]

Oh, mints. Really, I'm fine. Oh, I have raisins. I'm a mom. Wait, wait one sec. I've got cupcakes in the car. It's our best iPhone offer ever.

[Adam Schaefer]

Switch to T Mobile. Get a new iPhone 16 Pro with Apple intelligence on us. No trade in needed. We'll even pay off your phone up to 800 bucks with 24 monthly bill credits.

[Sal Di Stefano]

New line $100 plus a month on.

[Adam Schaefer]

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[Justin Andrews]

Ported for well qualified plus tax and $10 connection charge.

[Adam Schaefer]

Pay off via virtual prepaid card. Allow 15 days credits end in balance.

[Sal Di Stefano]

Due if you pay off early.

[Adam Schaefer]

Or cancel mobile dot com. Hey, it's Ryan Seacrest for Albertsons and safeway now through June 17th. Shop in store or online for your favorite personal care Items and save $5 when you spend $15 or more. Stock up on items like Dove Body Wash, Degree Motion Sense Deodorant, Tresma Hairspray, Dove Shampoo, Dove bar Soap, Dove men's body and face Wash and Dollar Shave Club blades. And save $5 when you spend $15 or more. Hurry in before these deals are gone. Offer ends June 17. Promotions may vary. Restrictions apply. Visit albertsons or safeway.com for more details.

[Sal Di Stefano]

If you want to pump your body and expand your mind, there's only one place to go.

[Ryan Seacrest]

Mind Pump.

[Sal Di Stefano]

Mind Pump.

[Adam Schaefer]

With your hosts, Sal Destefano, Adam Schaefer and Justin Andrews.

[Sal Di Stefano]

You just found the most downloaded fitness, health and entertainment podcast in the history of the world. This is Mind Pump, right? In today's episode, people called in. We got to coach them on air. We get to help them with their fitness on air. But this was after the intro. Today's intro is 54 minutes long. Now, in the intro, we talk about studies on fat loss, muscle building, health, talk about current Events, family life, being dads. It's a good time. By the way, if you want to be on an episode like this one where you can call in, email us your [e-mail] now this episode is brought to you by some sponsors. The first one is Butcher Box. So Butcherbox delivers grass fed meat. It delivers crate free pork, fish, chicken. It's good meat to your door at great prices. Go to butcherbox.com mindpump by the way, you'll get $20 off your first box and they'll include free chicken breast, ground beef or salmon in every box again for free for an entire year. This episode is also brought to you by Brain fm. Listen to their music with their engineered sounds to induce different states of mind proven by studies. This stuff is incredible. By the way, you can go to Brain FM forward slash mindpump and sign up for free for 30 days. Try it out. See what I'm talking about. We also have a program sale this month. The shredded summer bundle of workout programs is half off. And the bikini bundle of workout programs is also half off. Get ready for summer. Go to mapsfitnessproducts.com and then use the code june50 for the discount. Here comes the show. Some of the best science you'll ever find on strength training came out of the Soviet Union. It's true. We're going to talk about the top five fitness tips you can apply that the Soviets figured out they were ahead of everyone else.

[Justin Andrews]

We got to work on this topic.

[Adam Schaefer]

Your clickbait titles, they could have been more like the communists have it right. Why didn't you do something like that? I mean, they had this part right, the communist. Yeah. I mean, you got to get something that's more edgy, dude.

[Sal Di Stefano]

It's actually, it's really fascinating because, you know, during that time, this of course is when the Soviet Union existed, they were just killing it in strength sports. Yeah, absolutely killing it. And they, they really took this approach towards Olympic medals as a way to glorify that their system was best. Right. And so they took their concentrated efforts and they took their best scientists and they said, we're gonna figure out strength training, we're gonna figure out progressing, we're gonna figure out supplements, we're gonna figure out nutrition, of course, performance enhancing drugs, which we also use, by the way. But we're gonna take this all and take a very scientific approach and we're gonna spend money on it and let's see what we end up producing. And what they did was they actually came up with many things we take for granted now. And when the Iron Curtain came down, right when the Soviet Union kind of fell apart, a lot of the strength secrets came over, and we figured them out. And we as well.

[Adam Schaefer]

Okay, you've talked about this before, many times on the podcast. Were we not doing that at all? Like, I know that part of this was. This was government funded. Right. So it was the opportunity for them to show that their superiority Right. Over us in the Olympics. And so they poured a lot of money into all this research. And obviously, we are on the other side saying that, you know, free market's better and let your people do whatever. And we didn't have anybody that was doing this. Nobody had kind of figured that out on their own. They were the only ones that were controlling studies and figuring out the steroids and all. I mean, I don't understand. Like, there should have been.

[Sal Di Stefano]

So we had our own pharmaceuticals and steroids. So, you know, Diana Ball came out of the U.S. okay. But when it came to training methodologies, although now, of course, the best comes out of the U.S. okay. So. But when you go back then, it's like, there's no market for funding the types of studies that are needed for this kind of stuff. There really was no market.

[Justin Andrews]

They didn't have as much of a concerted effort.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

And wasn't funded. So, yeah, I think that there was a lot of training. Obviously, there's a lot of training going into, like, the Olympics and, you know, weightlifting. But to the degree where they took scientists and took them through, like, testing and everything, I think that they were ahead of everybody.

[Adam Schaefer]

So it really was them who started to figure a lot of this stuff out first. There was no pioneer right now. When I was. I always assumed that it was just because it was government funded. They had all the athletes on board with the same philosophy and the same, like, regimen that they were studying. And maybe over here, we had a couple guys that had figured it out. We're kind of doing it, but not collectively everybody.

[Justin Andrews]

So getting consultants and whatnot.

[Sal Di Stefano]

But what you had here now, what you have here is professional sports make a lot of money. And so this is now where you get a lot of the studies and funding. It'll come out of there. But the Soviets, they took a scientific approach and broke everything down. I'll give you an example. Okay. They understood progressive overload better than we did. So what I mean by that is so progressive overload, very important. Like, add weight to the bar, like, get stronger. Our athletes knew that as well. But the way our athletes did it back then in weightlifting was that they would push what they could do and then when they could do it, they would push again. The Soviets looked at it and it was very, very systematic. And what they found was you progressively overload a little bit, and even if they could do more, you leave it there because what it allows for is more progression later. In other words, if you're going to go out and do a deadlift and your previous, you know, weight that you use for, let's say eight reps at that same intensity, let's say was 500 pounds and you go and you add five pounds to it. 505. And you do eight. You're like, whoa, I could go up to 515. A lot of people go up to 515.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah.

[Sal Di Stefano]

So if it's like, nope, you're gonna stay at 505.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah.

[Sal Di Stefano]

And we're gonna stay there for, you know, two weeks and then we'll go up to 510. They added in increments of two and a half to five pounds. Yeah. And they did this in this very systematic approach. Another thing they do with progressive overload is they would allow an athlete to stay at a weight even though the intensity continued to drop as the athlete got stronger, and then waited 30 days before they would then jump and do an overload. So their approach to progressive overload was scientific. It wasn't just, oh, you feel like you could do more, let's do more. It was very much like, okay, here's the number and let's do it.

[Adam Schaefer]

That seems, and maybe just because we've been doing this for so long, it almost seems like common sense to me. Do you feel like it's the other way? I mean, do you think that I'm biased because I've just been around it for so long?

[Sal Di Stefano]

Yeah. I think common sense would say, everybody's still falls for this is, oh, I did more than last week, but I feel like you could do more. Let's add more, let's push it, let's keep pushing it.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah.

[Sal Di Stefano]

Whereas they were like, we've already exceeded.

[Justin Andrews]

Let's stay here, draw it out much further along.

[Sal Di Stefano]

That's right. And so they just have. You have this kind of long term approach with progressive overload, which takes us to the next point. This was a big one that they did that other people just didn't really figure out as well, which was periodization. They periodized their athletes and the way they trained in a very systematic way. It was like, you are going to train for this block with this intensity, regardless of how you feel, we're going to bring you down to this intensity. Then they had mesocycles, microcycles, mesocycles. So this week, this is what the cycle looks like. This month, this is what it looks like. Here's what it looks like over three months. And it was very systematic and scientific.

[Adam Schaefer]

So as you explain this for the audience that's obviously familiar with us and familiar with MAPS programs, you need to translate that into MAPS language for everybody else, because we chose to, because some of these terms are popular and people have heard them thrown around. We tend to use our own lexicon with a lot of stuff. And so as you explain what they did, explain how we use a lot of that within our own MAPS philosophy.

[Sal Di Stefano]

Yeah. So to give an example of a very basic periodization type schedule that the Soviets would have used, it would be like, you have a heavy, weak, a medium week and a light week. Okay, now here's the difference between what I'm talking about, what a lot of people tend to do. It doesn't matter how you feel, you're going to do a heavy week, you're going to do a medium week, and you do a light week. So going to the light week, a lot of people are like, I could keep going, I can keep pushing. They said, no, this is your light week. And when they applied the scientific method, they saw that long term, this resulted in tremendous progress. So what does this look like for a MAPS program? You have phases. You know, Maps Anabolic is the flagship program. That's a good example. Phase one is, is low reps, phase two is moderate reps, phase three is higher reps. You have a little bit of a change of exercise, a little bit of a change in, in rest periods. And the number one, I'll put in quotations complaint we'll get from people with maps. Anabolic.

[Adam Schaefer]

Not enough is because they'll, they'll finish.

[Sal Di Stefano]

Phase one and they'll be like, but.

[Justin Andrews]

I could keep going so strong right now.

[Sal Di Stefano]

Yeah, let me stretch out phase one. Can I do that? And we're like, no, no, no. You get better results switching before you hit where you stop.

[Adam Schaefer]

This is why I wanted you to communicate this because it's very. In the Internet world, we have an incredibly low return rate. Right. Like anything under 4% is incredible. We trend under 2% as a business for as long as we've been doing this in the MAPS programs. And the only time our team gets something as a refund, it's because people think that they need more.

[Sal Di Stefano]

Yep.

[Adam Schaefer]

Because they're not sore enough. And this is. Oh, this must be remedial. Yeah, this is for a beginner. I'm, I'm too advanced for this. And so I just wanted you to point that out as this is a perfect opportunity since we're talking about how much they changed the game and training and how wrong we had it for so long thinking that, oh, this is a better way because I can, because I can do more, I should do more. And it's that, no, that's not true. There's a better way to do that. And we figured that out. And so I just wanted. And we obviously use different terms in our programming than periodization and undulating and things like that, you might have also heard. So I want you to continue to communicate that so people understand that because it is the. If we ever get a return, that's what it's for right there.

[Sal Di Stefano]

That's right. I mean, you know, lifters in America at that time, let's say the 60s and 70s, for example, they would kind of base it off of feel. And so they had schedules. But, you know, if they felt like they could go harder, they would. And, and you know, this systematic approach, what it shows is we often, often I'll speak personally completely tend to be wrong. My personal belief is I could do more or I'm going to stretch out this phase. Let me keep going. Ooh, I just added £20 to the bar. You know what, I could go £30. Let me do that. And really what we're doing is we're missing long term progress and we're not maximizing the body system of adaptation. They were really good at sticking like.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah, it's almost like they removed like feel and momentum and just stuck with discipline. That's right, complete discipline. And just regardless of, you know, what your body's communicating.

[Sal Di Stefano]

And to be clear, these were athletes that were owned by this, by the communists.

[Adam Schaefer]

You had to do.

[Sal Di Stefano]

Yeah. Oh, you're not gonna follow this.

[Justin Andrews]

Stick with it.

[Sal Di Stefano]

Yeah, you're gonna throw in the gulag. So they dissed, they followed it and it worked. And again, it shows that periodization, you know, makes a big difference precisely because you're not just trusting, you know, you want to get after how I feel type of deal. Because that oftentimes will just, we'll lie to you. The next thing they did is they did focus a lot on compound movements. I don't think we need to focus a lot of time and energy on this point. But compound movements just give you so Much more bang for your buck.

[Adam Schaefer]

Now, was that unique to them or we at least figured that out, though, right?

[Sal Di Stefano]

We did that as well. Yeah, we did that as well. So this one we had.

[Adam Schaefer]

But let's let highlight doing these, the previous two become even more important.

[Sal Di Stefano]

Totally.

[Adam Schaefer]

Because how taxing those types of lifts can be on. On the body. So I think even though the US might have been doing this, understood this part, if you understand this part, but you neglect the previous two points that, that they had figured out, boy, do you really set yourself up for overtraining and injuries.

[Sal Di Stefano]

That's right. That's right. So what we tend to do is we tend to add in all these other exercises, which will sometimes have value, but we tend to do it while sacrificing our ability to adapt to the big compound lifts. So it's like we set the ball in motion and it's rolling and we're going great. And then we put little roadblocks in front of that ball because we're like, oh, I'm going to do some of these.

[Justin Andrews]

A lot of times it's a big distraction. A big distraction for your body to adapt efficiently.

[Sal Di Stefano]

That's right. You're just compromising your.

[Adam Schaefer]

Well, you even shared this in your recent journey. Yeah, I mean, you, you were, you were going after, obviously, a compound lift as the primary PR goal. And your first admitting your first even mistake was like, I was still doing too much other shit.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah.

[Adam Schaefer]

Well, it's like the goal here is to hit a PR in this lift right here, and you felt you were overdoing it. Even the beginning you're specializing.

[Justin Andrews]

I was looking too broadly at my goal, and once I started to get into it, it was like, wow, this isn't benefiting me. I can't recover at the same rate that I want. You know, by adding all this excess amount of exercising, it's like we got to narrow it down to what's going to move the needle the most. And it was very eye opening.

[Sal Di Stefano]

Yeah, you got huge gains just, just from that change. They also really placed an emphasis on recovery, and they really figured out active rest. The Soviets really figured this out. So I think instinctually, we think that the best way to recover is to not move. Like, we think of, like, rest for recovery. Like, rest when we need to, like, sit down and sleep or just sit down and do nothing. Yeah. The truth is your body recovers faster. Except in extreme, extreme, extreme situations, your body recovers faster through light movement. Yeah, you're better. Your legs are really sore from a workout, and you just want to sit down and not move them. They'll get. They'll actually recover faster if you do some light walking. Just that light movement and stretching.

[Adam Schaefer]

You know, hearing you say that makes me feel like, I think, a great example of how we didn't have this part right. I think of the old. What was a pumping iron where Arnold then would lift and then they would just go lay. And I feel like knowing what we know now, that they would probably more likely be walking on the park barefoot or the beach or doing even like, mobility or lunges would be something that they would do to promote even more muscle growth than they were doing versus just laying out, just trying to sleep. Because that was 10. That was the. Even. Even when I first came into the space. I remember that was the theory. Like bodybuild. You would get big lift and then go lift and then go. I remember doing this on my lunch breaks because I had these huge gaps in between training clients is I would train really hard around 11 or noon, and then I had like a good four or five or. And I just go. I literally would just. I tried not to.

[Sal Di Stefano]

Same.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah. Didn't want to burn any calories, Wanted to rest as much as I could. Like, that was what I. And I thought, this is giving my body the most optimal amount of recovery to build muscle. And just totally had that wrong. In fact, it would have been better off doing some mobility stuff for walking and moving.

[Justin Andrews]

I mean, even when I was going through sports and I still had. I carried that same mentality. It was like, I just need to not do anything. I, you know, overexerted myself. And I just want to, like, rest all day and then the next day until I started reading, actually, and it was from the super training book that was like, Soviet related. They were talking about stretching and active recovery with walking and getting blood circulation and all that too. So.

[Sal Di Stefano]

Yeah. No, in fact, what you just brought up, the bodybuilders of the 70s. That's a big myth. The myth was that they did nothing in between their workouts. Really, what they did is they tanned for like, 20 minutes.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah.

[Sal Di Stefano]

And then they were swimming, they were playing. Yeah. They would all hang out at the beach and they were moving. But there's a myth that they would just lay there.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah. Yeah. Because that's what they were.

[Sal Di Stefano]

They showed that.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah. They highlight that the show. Like, they make it seem like they wouldn't train hard. And they just laid on the log, you know, laid out and laid on the grass and slept, you know, you.

[Sal Di Stefano]

Know what's interesting about this. Again, unless there's an extreme, like you have rhabdo, like severe muscle damage. Yeah, you just need to sit there because your body's fighting.

[Justin Andrews]

You need to heal.

[Sal Di Stefano]

But for, but for 99% of people, here's what happens, right? You, you just did this, this stress signal to the body through exercise. And if you did it right, the stress signal sets the gears of motion for recovery and adaptation, which are separate, but they happen kind of the same time. So I'm. Okay, I'm gonna, I'm gonna start building muscle. Here's what the signal of, of being sedentary sends to your body. Pair muscle down. You actually are sending, yeah. A competing signal when you don't move that says, let's get rid of some of this muscle. We don't need it. That's why it's, it's better to actually move. It actually speeds up the, and enhances the adaptation process. I figured this out as a kid. I've told this story. I had a BMX bike at one point. My cousin and I bought one. We saved our money. And I remember I would hit my arms like super hard. Biceps will get all sore. And I remember, and I'll never forget the summer that we bought our bikes. I was learning how to bunny hop and I was pulling the handlebar so hard and I remember thinking to myself, like, oh man, I'm, my biceps are sore and I'm pulling these handlebars, totally ruining my gains. And I got like. I was surprised to see that I recovered faster and had better gains. And that's when I kind of started piecing it together. I didn't really fully apply it until I was much, much older. But yeah, if you're sore, you just had a hard workout. Move. Move is going to help you recover the fastest. And lastly, the Soviets did really, really well as they tracked and analyzed their progress because they took a very scientific approach. Every rep, every the weight, every hour of sleep, like, you know, everything they did, they were able to track and put into their formulas to figure out what's actually working. Now why is this valuable? Because we think we're so self aware, but we're actually not the most, even the best fitness experts. You're talking like, you know, we have three guys on this podcast who've been training people for two and a half decades. That's what we do for a living. Like if, like I miss things all the time and I'm about a billion times more aware of the, you know, what fitness exercise does and diet does. Than the average person. So tracking just lets you kind of see what's going on. I love the story you tell, Adam. When you were competing as a pro and looking at your total volume for the first time, you tracked it and you realize, like, my volume never really changes because sometimes I go more, sometimes I go less. And you know, what's the deal here?

[Adam Schaefer]

I mean, and that's. And to your point, you're talking about people that have been doing this for a long time and think you're. And I like to think that we're more self aware in the gym than the average person. But you do seem to fool yourself. You know, I'm going to take this opportunity for a shameless plug since we happen to be in, I think, the final couple days of our group training. And you know, you want to talk about a incredibly valuable experience for anybody who's never had this before, which is having somebody take you through something that's been expertly programmed. Then also coaches guide you through that and have conversations with you on a weekly basis to help you understand how to modify and back off or increase and know what that's like and feel what it's like to go through that. Even in a group setting where, you know, everybody's focused on fat loss, everybody's focused on muscle building. But hearing a coach, one of our trainers, take you through that process and teach you how to do that, I just think it's so invaluable. I mean, and that was the feedback that we've gotten for this group is that so many, even some of these people that are advanced have been lifting for a really long time going through this and going like, man, having them lead that and coach you through that, because I can't tell you how many times I always hear these people that buy the program, our programs, and then they add stuff to it and they think that because they can do more, that it's better. And it's like, no, it's not true. And then you get fooled because you see it's still good enough, you see some results. And so then we get in this head of like, probably how just like the US used to, like, well, we're obviously doing something right because our guys are getting stronger. So it's like, yeah, but there's even a better way if you just trust the process and then actually having someone lead you through that process for a three month cycle to go through all those phases and then go, oh, wow, this is what it's supposed to feel like. It'll blow your mind. Unbelievably valuable.

[Sal Di Stefano]

It is. We have two groups that we're going to be running soon, one for fat loss and one for muscle building. It's at mindpumpgroupcoaching.com just if anybody's interested. Yeah, no, the tracking part of this is important because it also does this. When I had clients track, and actually this is what I used to do, just because I was a. I tried to prove to my clients the value of this. Because sometimes you could tell people, like right now, you're listening to this, maybe it's going in one year, out the other. So here's what I used to do as a trainer. I would track for my clients. When we would have these conversations and I knew they wouldn't, I would start tracking and I'd write things down in their. In their chart. And then they come to me 30 days, you know, into it, 60 days into it. Sal, I feel like, you know, I don't know if I'm. Am I doing everything right? And it's just not. I don't. I don't know, I'm frustrated and I go, well, let's go look at your chart. And I'd show them, be like, wow, look at that. Your squat went up £15. You added five reps to this. You. You used to often come in and tell me about how bad your energy was. And I'm marking here that your energy levels were actually consistently higher. And then they go, oh, yeah, yeah, I guess you're right. Why? Because they just weren't paying attention to everything. What they were paying attention to was, like, one thing, like the scale maybe, or maybe the mirror, which is subjective oftentimes. So this is something you could do for yourself, too. This tracking allows you to see, like, oh, my God, like, this is working, or, wow, when I eat that, this is what's happening to me. And I wouldn't have known had I not written it down or what you.

[Adam Schaefer]

You tend to. You tend to perceive or think that you're always busy or always doing so much. And what I found, which was like, you have them. I'll have a month and be like, what the hell? I didn't progress move at all. But then when I pull back out, I go, oh, well, shit. When I look at total volume, I actually went down this month. So the fact that I didn't go any further backwards and I at least held onto my strength is actually really good. I didn't progressively overload at all yet. I thought I did because I was just as busy or I Felt like I had those hard sessions in there. And so I find that really valuable too, especially for coaches and trainers to do what you're saying for their clients. Because there's been many times where a client might come, has came to me after say month three or four in the middle of a training cycle, have been training with me for a long time and been frustrated because that month they didn't see the progress they wanted to. And I bet many times if you pull back and were to compare that to the previous month or something else, you might realize like, oh, shit. Well, even though you thought you worked just as hard or doing as much, you actually didn't. We did this much, we did 10% less volume this month than we did previous month.

[Sal Di Stefano]

It is an absolute fact that you only see what you focus on. That is a psychological fact. There are studies that show this improve this time and time again. If you think you perceive every bit of information that your brain receives, you're crazy. You actually perceive a tiny fraction of it. And so the question is, how do I allow myself to get a much further, fuller, accurate picture? Well, you, you start writing things down and you start tracking certain things and then you'll start to notice things and you'll get a much more accurate picture of not just where you've come from, but where you're going. And then you'll know when you need to change gears and when you, when you shouldn't. Because otherwise it's based off of this limited information that's probably based off fear and anxiety or past issues. And that's all you see. That's all you're going to see, especially.

[Adam Schaefer]

If you go into it with these high expectations or you're trying to get most results in the shortest period of time. Because the other option is this is just understand this is a journey. Understand that consistency, consistency trumps everything and just be patient. But a lot of people aren't patient. They want the results now. They want this, they want it to look like this. They have these, these high expectations and goals, but then they're not doing all the work to track and to be able to double check their work. And it's like, if you really want it that bad, then do these things because then you'll know for sure. Or the other side of that is, hey, you don't have to get that crazy. You can just enjoy the process and understand you're going to have these peaks and valleys and you have these times where you hit plateaus and you know, and just continue to be consistent, enjoy the journey and the other conversation, I feel like we always have, which is trying to get people to enjoy the process, because it is a long process. It is a journey. You're going to have success for the.

[Sal Di Stefano]

Rest of your life if you do it right.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah. So I really feel like that those are the two ways to have success in this. You either approach it meticulously like that, really dive in to try to learn all about this, or you accept that it's going to be a slow process, you're going to make mistakes, you're going to have some setbacks, but just keep plugging away and be consistent.

[Sal Di Stefano]

I think the best approach is probably in the middle, is what I would say.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah.

[Sal Di Stefano]

You know, I got to ask you, Adam, you. You do not appear to be sick at all. And I know you were getting hit.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah.

[Sal Di Stefano]

By the flu.

[Adam Schaefer]

Well, my son had the flu and pneumonia.

[Sal Di Stefano]

Like, actually tested positive for the flu.

[Adam Schaefer]

Oh, yeah. Yeah. No, he had. He went to the hot. We had to take him to the hospital. We had to take him to the doctor. And because it was. It was. The fever wasn't going away for five days, and. And then he got pneumonia, and so. And Katrina and I were, like, super paranoid. I know I call you right away anytime that stuff's happened. I was like, all right, what do I take? You know? And so, you know, this. The stack of, you know, vitamin C, vitamin D, glutathione, and then thymosin. Alpha.

[Sal Di Stefano]

Alpha.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah. Alpha thymus and Alpha thymus and alphas. Crazy when you get. I feel like, okay, so this. This is the second time now I've been good. Get on it right away.

[Sal Di Stefano]

Yeah.

[Adam Schaefer]

I do notice a difference when I get on it right away. Like, if I'm. If I'm not sick yet, but I think there's a good chance that's when you use it. Yeah. And so I. This is the second time I was early on it, and I still got sick, but it's just more, like. I want to say annoying sick than it is. Like, I was down. I mean, I still had to, you know, cook for a party of 60 people and still was taking care of my son. And we had. We had company at the house, and so I didn't stop. I didn't take a day off, and. And you could probably tell a little bit. I have a little bit of congestion. You could probably hear it still. Yeah.

[Sal Di Stefano]

But knowing you, because you and I are similar, like, once you get sick, you're sick for, like, a week and messed up.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah, bro.

[Sal Di Stefano]

Thymus and Alpha is wild. I've now used it several times. So this is a peptide made by the thymus. Essentially tells your, your, your immune system to ramp up. It gets those, those killer cells to come out more readily and more of them to it. So it doesn't stop an infection, but what it does is it gets, mitigates it big time. Oh, your immune system's like, let's go.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah.

[Sal Di Stefano]

It also reduces inflammation. Did you guys know this about thymus and alpha, by the way? We can say this now because now we're at the point now where people are saying this stuff. Thymus and alpha was being used by doctors and researchers during the COVID explosion and they were getting success with it. Okay. The study showed, like, oh, we're really preventing people from getting severely ill. The government made it impossible to get thymosin alpha for a little while. They actually made it so you could not get it during that period of time. Which is crazy. It's like, why anything that worked? Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

No competition, please.

[Sal Di Stefano]

I remember when nac, NAC gets your liver to produce more glutathione and glutathione. Low glutathione levels is very strongly connected or correlated to severe Covid or influenza. Right. So all the bad symptoms. NAC has been a supplement for two and two decades, three decades. You can buy it anywhere. It's like nothing. And suddenly the government was like, put out letters. You cannot sell this anymore. Yeah, we're going to ban this. And I remember you couldn't get it on Amazon Prime. You know Amazon for that.

[Justin Andrews]

Any dewormer, anything.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah, I mean, I know it's, I know it's only two times, but for me it's, I've noticed a significant difference. Like you said, it doesn't keep me from getting sick. All it does is it makes whatever probably would have been significantly worse for me.

[Sal Di Stefano]

Way milder.

[Adam Schaefer]

Super mild. It becomes just annoying. I've been annoyed for the last like four days. It's not like I'm, I haven't stopped doing my normal stuff. I just have a little bit congestion. I had a little bit of an itchy throat. And at night I feel it the most in the morning and just. But it's like normally I'm laid up. I'm that much of a baby that when I get sick, I'm pretty much down for a couple days. And I didn't have that at all.

[Sal Di Stefano]

No, I, I, I tell our [e-mail] I tell them to send me. I have bottles just on reserve.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah. So I mean they just sit there. That's. You got me to do that now is to just have it. That's why I hit you up right away. And I mean I, I don't know if you're supposed to or not, but you have me do like a mega dose the first night and then kind of taper down.

[Sal Di Stefano]

Let's not talk doses.

[Adam Schaefer]

So I take, I take a little extra use as prescribed, please. Yeah, yeah. The first night.

[Justin Andrews]

Well, I stocked up on BBC because. And I was glad I did for a minute there. They were trying to get rid of it.

[Sal Di Stefano]

They were, dude, I know, man, this is, it's a weird time with Peptides. I don't know what they're trying to do or what the deal is, but yeah, I don't know.

[Justin Andrews]

Ever since, like to keep them around.

[Sal Di Stefano]

Ever since the, the whatchamacallitz, the, the tirzepatide and semaglutide GLP1.

[Justin Andrews]

Oh yeah, they start going after the compound pharmacies.

[Sal Di Stefano]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because that's. Those, those bro, those, you guys, those are blowing up.

[Justin Andrews]

So especially the rest of the world is now catching up to the hype. And so it's still like the sales.

[Sal Di Stefano]

I stand by what I said. I think you're probably going to see 50 to 70% of everybody's gonna be.

[Adam Schaefer]

You know, you, you should use it since you're bringing up, you know, the whole, our partnership with Transcend and everything like that. Like it's important I think too, so the audience knows. So I mean, I, I remember telling you guys when this first, this market first started to explode that it, it reminds me so much of the medical marijuana industry and what people need to understand.

[Sal Di Stefano]

Mouse game.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah. So there's a lot of things that, you know, and I feel really bad for these, the, some of these companies because, you know, you have people that are listeners of the show and they hear about it and they trust your knowledge around the science and everything that, oh cool, I want to try this thing out or I'm going to do this thing or Sal says great things about this and so they want to do it. And then you may be one of those people that go through this process and it's when they're in the middle of this political games that are going on. And what I mean by that is it's this cat and mouse of like, oh, we're going to ban this and oh, we're going to make it difficult for you to resource this and oh, we're going to shut these down or oh, we're going to threaten you this. And so because it's still considered in that gray market, you are at the whims of whatever each state laws are. And by the way, that's the other thing too. It's not like this blanket law for everybody. It's like each state is different. And so what happens is we get some people that get really upset and impatient sometimes and I feel like poor transcend takes the heat from it, like they're doing something wrong or their customer service.

[Sal Di Stefano]

It's like it's not even gray market. It's, it's legal. But the laws keep getting changed just like, just. And they try to.

[Adam Schaefer]

It's just like it was just like that it was legal. But again, because the, each state law was different and they were always playing these, these shell games that it was like we were. And then we're the people that were, you know, providing it. Man, we always took the heat like it was our fault because I couldn't get this or not waste saying you had this last week. Now you're saying I can't get it. And it's like, yeah, it's, I wish I could, I could just have it and run it like a normal business. But it's not quite like a normal business. So then you get people that expect the process to feel like what it's like when you just go down to your doctor and get a normal prescription. It's like, man, it's. Unfortunately, it's not like that. And so being patient with that, I get the frustration because I've been on the side, I've been on both sides of this and it's tough, but you need to understand it's not the same thing as like going anywhere else, so.

[Sal Di Stefano]

That's right. That's right. All right, I'm going to talk about something interesting I just realized or I just learned about with grain fed Beef. Did you guys know that they've done studies and found that the bacterial contamination with, with antibiotic resistant strains of bacteria is something like four or five times higher in grain fed beef than grass fed?

[Adam Schaefer]

Say that again.

[Sal Di Stefano]

So I'll read it to you. I'll read this particular study. So they did a study on bacterial contamination in ground beef. This was in WebMD. This is Consumer Reports 2015. A study of 300 ground beef samples found that 18% of grain fed samples contained antibiotic resistant superbugs compared to 6% of grass fed samples.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah, but what does that even mean?

[Sal Di Stefano]

These are bacteria that are resistant to antibiotics. So now this is a big future problem. This is like when you hear like scientists talk about like what could potentially kill humanity, it's like, oh, we could have another black plague with bacteria that's antibiotic resistant. Now why you see a higher percentage of this in grain fed meat is.

[Adam Schaefer]

Because we're shooting them up with hormones and everything else.

[Justin Andrews]

They're giving the antibiotics to resist it.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah.

[Sal Di Stefano]

And they're putting them in these, in these pens and they're, you know, feeding them grain and they have to give them antibiotics otherwise they get sick because of the way they're living. And so it.

[Justin Andrews]

So they're still getting sick in a sense because of the superbugs.

[Sal Di Stefano]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

Okay.

[Sal Di Stefano]

Now we cook the meat and all that stuff.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah, yeah, we burn it off so it's not like that's scary.

[Sal Di Stefano]

However, this just goes to show you, like grass fed meat is, is, is better on that standpoint. And as far as nutrients are concerned. I didn't realize this as well, you know that it's, I've talked about cla, better fatty acid profile, leaner cuts for the same size. So you get like lower calorie, you know, six ounces of grass fed versus whatever. It's also three times higher in vitamin E precursors, one and a half times higher in vitamin C, two to three times higher in B vitamins. So they're just nutrient dense in comparison. So grass fed meat, way more. It's.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah, it's just higher in protein, higher nutrients, lower in fat. I mean it's a, it's such a win all the way around.

[Sal Di Stefano]

Yeah, dude.

[Adam Schaefer]

Which also though, again I think it's just, you know, bringing up points, defending all these things. I feel like today grass fed beef is not going to taste like a grain fed. Well, no cow. Yeah, it's leaner. It's so much leaner. So you have to go in knowing that. I remember that's why I like Butcherbox so much because I, I particularly didn't care for grass fed beef for the, for the most part because I felt like it just didn't taste good at all. I felt like Butcherbox was the first grass fed grass finished beef that I actually really liked. I thought, okay, they've done a really good job because that's, I know that's a hard problem to solve is because obviously most of us that buy a ribeye or one of those types of cuts want a really good tasting steak, you know, regardless of like how much healthier you think it is or not. And they did a good job of being able to Provide grass fed, grass finish and also taste really good. That was the best.

[Sal Di Stefano]

And I eat so much meat. It makes a big difference for me. I eat red meat every day. Probably a pound a day.

[Adam Schaefer]

60 pounds this weekend, dude. 60 pounds?

[Justin Andrews]

60?

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah. That's the most I've. How many people do you have? Over 60 people.

[Justin Andrews]

How many?

[Sal Di Stefano]

Everybody had a pound of meat. Was that.

[Justin Andrews]

How many?

[Adam Schaefer]

That was. Did you grow two 15 pound brisket or two. Excuse me, two. 30. Did I say that right? No, it was 30 pounds of. 30 pounds of brisket. And then we had. Well, but then we had other meat. Yeah. Then we had chicken and then we had tri tip and we had. What else do we have? I mean, we had. So I was responsible for the 30 pounds of brisket. I had two 15 pound cuts.

[Justin Andrews]

A monster, dude. 24 hours.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah. So this is. This is the first time I did a full 24 hour cook. First time I'd ever done two briskets at once.

[Sal Di Stefano]

They come out all right.

[Adam Schaefer]

They did. I.

[Sal Di Stefano]

Because brisket is like, there's like a skill to it.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

This is definite.

[Adam Schaefer]

You know, I gotta. I got a ton of compliments and from people. I had two ex chefs that said something to me, a sister who came from Texas that was like, oh, wow. Yeah. Yeah. So I got really. I didn't feel that way. Doug was asking me off air. He's just like, what would you think? And I'm like, you know, I felt like this could have been a little better. That could have been this. I felt there.

[Sal Di Stefano]

Well, you can't compare it to Texas. Why.

[Adam Schaefer]

Why can't I not? I. I have that. They're obviously, I want to get to that level.

[Justin Andrews]

You want it like, how Kendrick.

[Sal Di Stefano]

Like slices.

[Adam Schaefer]

I got him in my back pocket too. So, you know, I'm calling him and I'm talking to him as I go through the process, you know, so I'm. I'm trying. The hardest part is. Is to. There was definitely parts of it that was some of the best brisket ever, but that's the hard part. Is that the way it's shaped?

[Sal Di Stefano]

Yeah.

[Adam Schaefer]

And so. And when you're cooking something that long and you have a cut or a part of the cut that's this thick, and then another part that. That's this thick.

[Sal Di Stefano]

Oh, I see what you're saying.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah. So there's definitely a part where. Oh, man. Just perfect. But then there was other parts. Yeah. On the dry side. Oh. That felt like that fell apart too much. But I mean, at the end of the day, two Sauces for no. Oh, my God. If someone pulled barbecue sauce out of my brisket, bro, I would just. I would have cried.

[Sal Di Stefano]

Somebody put ketchup. Somebody.

[Adam Schaefer]

And somebody pulled barbecue sauce on brisket that I made. I would have literally went in the room and cried. I would have just been so embarrassed. And that's all I didn't want. I was like, I just don't want to screw up. You know, my brother paid like four or five hundred bucks for all that meat. I'm like. And it's. I'm responsible for it. And yeah, if I saw people pour barbecue sauce on it, I would have definitely cried.

[Justin Andrews]

I used to go out with this guy who. Who'd he put ketchup on his stage. I was like, this is. I just almost got up and walked away.

[Adam Schaefer]

I mean, I. I get, I get it. If you go into like a Sizzler or some shitty ass steakhouse. You know what I'm. If you cook good, good meat should.

[Sal Di Stefano]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

Not maybe Denny's or something. Yeah, that's about as.

[Adam Schaefer]

That's what I mean. Like in some even. But good, good meat shouldn't need any.

[Sal Di Stefano]

I feel like ketchup is like, at.

[Justin Andrews]

Least do like the steak sauce, not like ketchup.

[Sal Di Stefano]

Yeah. Like, if you use ketchup on your meat, you're a child. That's how I feel. You know what I mean? You're like a kid. You know what I mean?

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah. I don't know. I don't know if I've seen a grown man use ketchup before. I see people use a one in barbecue sauce.

[Sal Di Stefano]

I'll use a one. Acceptable. Yeah, but ketchup.

[Adam Schaefer]

But if you do that when I. When I cook a piece of meat, to me, that's a fail to get. That's a fail on my part. Yeah, you felt like you need to do that. You know, you should definitely have to do that.

[Sal Di Stefano]

Hey, so I want to bring up a topic that I think is. Is a. Is an important topic to talk about.

[Adam Schaefer]

Why you say that?

[Sal Di Stefano]

Radical non monogamy.

[Adam Schaefer]

Oh, God, yes. What does that even mean? Yes.

[Sal Di Stefano]

Jeez. So stupid.

[Adam Schaefer]

Oh, Aubrey Marcus is in her to the chat.

[Sal Di Stefano]

Oh.

[Adam Schaefer]

Oh, my goodness.

[Justin Andrews]

I said last week I knew he was married. Right. Because it went from kind of.

[Sal Di Stefano]

I don't. Don't care. Do your own. Whatever. I don't care. But stop labeling. Stop calling this something that sounds so, like, evolved. Like, oh, it's radical non monogamy. You know what we used to call that? You can't commit. You don't have any discipline. You want to just, you want to screw everybody. But now we're going to label it.

[Adam Schaefer]

That's a made up term, right? That's not.

[Sal Di Stefano]

Of course it is.

[Adam Schaefer]

Radical.

[Sal Di Stefano]

Radical. How do we rebrand this?

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah, you know, you know what's, you.

[Sal Di Stefano]

Know what's annoying about that? Here's what's frustrating because this is for young men watching right now, okay? Because young women get lied to as well. But young men get lied to in a particular way. Here's what young men hear from media and the world and advertisers and all that. Here's what it says. And this is what you believe. This is what I believed, that the happiest guys, they aren't committed, they're not tied down, no ball and chain, they just make a lot of money, they get to bang whoever they want. What a fun existence. They can do it. They can hang out with their buddies. They got as many hot chicks lined up and all that stuff. Here's what the data shows.

[Justin Andrews]

So many benefits for the woman.

[Sal Di Stefano]

But here's what the data shows. I don't care if you're religious or not, is what the data shows. That guy is miserable. That guy is really not happy. The happiest people are in committed relationships. The best sex reported are by married couples who are in their 60s who've been together forever. They're the healthiest. They're the least likely to need to take medications for mental illness. They die without lots of regrets. That's what the data shows. But the world will have you believe otherwise. So we have all these young men who are looking at people like that and they're like, oh, that's what I want to be like. That's a tormented person, just straight up. I'm just calling it out. I don't know him personally. But to promote that in that way, what it seems to me is like you're trying so hard to justify this empty, you know, life that you have. And so, like, this is called radical non monogamy. It's so cool. Look how hot we are.

[Adam Schaefer]

I don't even know. I mean, I'm, I'm guilty. You know, I was a naive young man that, that believed that. And I guess if you, if you've never experienced the other side, it's hard. I mean, I would have never, I would have never believed if me went back in time and told me, you know, you'd be with the same woman for 15 years. And at year 15, your intimacy, your sex, your attraction to her will be better after she's had a kid. She's in her mid-40s, and you've been with her 15 years. I would probably slap me. I would just. You're full of. I don't. There's no way that's possible. I wouldn't believe it. So that's why it's easy as a young man to hear someone talk like that and go, like, totally. I mean, he's got all the cool stuff in the cars, and he gets a different hot chick every year. He just changes what he calls it. Like, this sounds way cool. Like, that's more believable.

[Sal Di Stefano]

So spiritually.

[Adam Schaefer]

Well, I mean, it seems. It seems more believable than what I would be saying, which is like, no, bro, I'm telling you right now, I'm more attracted to her at 45 than when I had her at 30. And I'm. I. We have better sex and more of it today than we did our. Because you. You hear the honeymoon phase. Honeymoon phase. I mean, yeah, our first year was great, but it's way better today than it was in the first year or even the first five years. Now, if I were to have to explain it to me, what I would say is this. The ability to grow with another person together is the ultimate intimacy. Yes.

[Sal Di Stefano]

Period.

[Justin Andrews]

I was going to say the best way to work on intimacy is obviously to go find somebody else to get intimacy with.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah, it makes a lot of sense. Well, I just. I think what happens in. In some of these marriages where this isn't true because there. Maybe there's a guy who's been married 15 years. I don't know what the fuck you're talking about. My wife and I never have sex. And. And so, yeah, I. I could totally see where if you stick in a relationship where the two of you aren't on a mission to grow together, that. That could totally happen. And then that looks attractive.

[Sal Di Stefano]

But the answer to that is not the other direction.

[Adam Schaefer]

I mean, forget. Yeah, but I mean, I'm not even claiming to say I have answer. I'm just saying that I think that I can understand why that looks attractive. I could also understand why there are some married people that wish they had that maybe that relationship is because. And I think that the hack is you have to make sure that you find a partnership where each partner does want to do that. And if you want to do that, then it's the most beautiful thing ever.

[Sal Di Stefano]

The best sex reported in the data is couples who've been together for a long time, who are older. And if you wanted to look in the subset data of that, the most happy of those couples are religious couples, which the world will tell you is not true. Oh, religious people, they have terrible sex. They actually report the best intimacy. And then if you look even deeper to that, it's the couples that. That was the only person they've ever been with. Encounters.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah, but, you know, that's the. The flaw in that. And I'm. I'm just playing devil's advocate with you because I know that there's at least half the audience that's doing it right now. Not to you. Is that. That's self reported, bro.

[Sal Di Stefano]

It's all self reported.

[Adam Schaefer]

Okay, so all of it is self reported. So somebody who has only had saltine crackers thinks it's the best thing in the world.

[Sal Di Stefano]

That's such a terrible.

[Adam Schaefer]

Listen, somebody needs to have that with you, though, because if it's self reported like that, that's going to be where someone pokes a hole.

[Sal Di Stefano]

Let me ask you a question. If you have a pie chart of sexual intimacy, the physical part, how much of a percentage would you say is that your partner looks a particular way? And the actual physical acts and tricks and things that you do, how much of it do you think makes up that pie chart versus all the other stuff that you're talking about?

[Justin Andrews]

So is this a cherry pie?

[Adam Schaefer]

So fair. But younger me wouldn't know the answer to that.

[Sal Di Stefano]

So here's the answer.

[Adam Schaefer]

Now, I understand that pie chart, but I didn't understand that's why we're talking.

[Sal Di Stefano]

About it, because here's why.

[Adam Schaefer]

But I mean, I have to point that out to you because I know that someone's gonna.

[Sal Di Stefano]

Someone's thinking that, well, here's the answer to this. The answer is young men need to. Older guys that they admire and respect to communicate this to them, because otherwise they're. They're. They're. They're. The guys that they look up to are all. By the way, Dan's Bilzerian, who was the poster child of this, has now come out and said himself. It's empty.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah.

[Sal Di Stefano]

He's like, this was not. This is not what I thought it was.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah, yeah.

[Sal Di Stefano]

You know. You think Hugh Hefner was a happy man? No. And you should read about some of.

[Justin Andrews]

The stories from moments of it.

[Sal Di Stefano]

Yes. Stories that were reported by the women that were around him. So I think. I think what they need is they need these. I mean, it wasn't that long ago. I mean, it was, you know, it was a while ago, but it wasn't that long ago. Where A man's pride was how many children you had. Yeah, you can support your family.

[Adam Schaefer]

I mean, I'm. Bro. I'm right with you. It's just why I'm with you that it doesn't get. I mean, I know. I know that somehow. I don't know if we even ever intended this podcast to go in this. This kind of fatherhood direction and conversation around that, but I agree. There's not enough. There's not enough men that. That young men can look up to and admire that are telling them that. And so I'm with you. You know, I'm with you on that. I. And I don't know if I would have been able to. I hope I could. I could have got through to me, but I didn't realize that pie chart. I didn't realize there's no way I would. I probably, at 17, would have believed that, though. I think that I would have. I would have been the other one. The. The other one looks more attractive on the outside.

[Sal Di Stefano]

You're right. Let me give you an analogy that I think people understand. So this. This might help. You have somebody who's never experienced the benefits of good health and fitness, and they'll look at you and say, but I am so free to eat whatever I want and not exercise. I enjoy eating, you know, cookies and garbage all the time. It's way more enjoyable. I feel like what you're doing is restrictive, and I feel like that's unhappy. The truth is, the freedom comes from health. Not poor health. Poor. Freedom does not come from sleeping around with a bunch of people. Freedom comes from being dedicated to one person. Both of you are dedicated to each other, and you grow together. That's where the freedom comes from. So. So for people who are listening, you're a young man. You're listening, you understand fitness, and your friends that don't understand fitness try to tell you that looks like it's restrictive. That looks like I just want to enjoy eating what I want. That's how. That's the same thing that you may be thinking about what we're talking about right now.

[Justin Andrews]

Okay, so there's another stupid idea I want to discuss with you guys. And, you know, I want to just, you know, get some feedback. So I guess I don't know if it's a growing trend or if it's just something that. Somebody sent me this in the dm where women were starting to do Botox to their traps. What to. To not develop, basically not develop the traps. All the rest of their.

[Adam Schaefer]

Oh, to kill all the muscle there.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah. All the rest of their body is. Is building, developing muscle. They can decrease the size of their traps.

[Adam Schaefer]

Look this up, Doug. Is that. Is this really a thing?

[Justin Andrews]

I saw the video for it and I saw that there's, like, doctors that.

[Sal Di Stefano]

Are actually the only performing these. Of all the people we've ever been around, all the women we've trained, all the women we've been in the gym, so trainers, female fitness enthusiasts. It's. It's not common for women to develop traps that look too big.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah.

[Sal Di Stefano]

I think women worry about this, but.

[Justin Andrews]

They do worry about it.

[Sal Di Stefano]

This is not a common thing.

[Adam Schaefer]

Trap Botox, also known as trap tox. Oh, my gosh. Or baby or Barbie Botox.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah.

[Sal Di Stefano]

Wow. Wow.

[Justin Andrews]

I just thought it was absurd.

[Sal Di Stefano]

Oh, that's terrible.

[Justin Andrews]

I mean, right there, you know, alongside the scream and.

[Sal Di Stefano]

Oh, well, there you go. So I knew this was. There's a medical. There's a medical application which could be fixed through proper exercise, by the way, it can also be used to alleviate neck and shoulder pain and stiffness.

[Adam Schaefer]

If you're trapped because they're overactive, they just basically kill it because your mid.

[Sal Di Stefano]

Back needs strengthening, but now what you.

[Adam Schaefer]

Do is you're going to make your.

[Sal Di Stefano]

Whole shoulder girdle unstable.

[Justin Andrews]

They were promoting it like it was an aesthetic reason because that'll sell, too.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah, well, that. I mean, I. I get where you're both. I know. I bet. I bet it probably was tested for Sal's reason first.

[Sal Di Stefano]

Right?

[Adam Schaefer]

And then somebody goes, oh, I like that.

[Justin Andrews]

Well, let's just keep going, you know.

[Adam Schaefer]

You know, talk about. I, Man, I. I have. I have close family and friends that, you know, we talked a while back about that whole perception drift.

[Sal Di Stefano]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah.

[Adam Schaefer]

And man, it's such a real thing, dude.

[Sal Di Stefano]

Bro.

[Adam Schaefer]

It's so. It pains me when it's someone.

[Sal Di Stefano]

By the way, generally speaking, there's perception drift in society as. As certain looks are becoming totally more.

[Justin Andrews]

Like, oh, that's what people look promoted, highlighted, accepted. Oh, this is the new model.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah. No, it's. It's crazy. It's. I guess I really don't care. Like, to each their own. Right? I'm not the type of person to judge anyone for doing whatever, but it's. I guess when I. When I have someone who's close to me who I. I've always. I thought, oh, man, she's so beautiful. Naturally beautiful. And then you watch them do this and you're like, you're so far from where you were and you were so goddamn beautiful before, and like now you just.

[Justin Andrews]

That's frustrating.

[Sal Di Stefano]

You.

[Adam Schaefer]

Not only do you look like all these other same people, but it doesn't look good either. Like somebody needs to like shake these people and be.

[Justin Andrews]

And it's big weird lifts do not look good.

[Sal Di Stefano]

That's the one that's the main. That's the big. It's the big, Big. Yeah. Lips. That's the crazy one that I see.

[Justin Andrews]

Who's asking for that? I think it's. Yeah. It's a good thing.

[Sal Di Stefano]

We know we look. We. I mean, I. I understand it from my perspective, you know, wanting to look a particular way and not being aligned with kind of reality. It's a thing, man. It's a thing. It's. It's.

[Adam Schaefer]

Well, and I think too, it. It again the perception drift. I think at least I'm not sure though, May. I mean, somebody can correct me if I'm wrong. Like, I feel like it just. It gets. It doesn't start there. It starts with just like a little bit. Justin. It's like, oh, it looks good. You know, and it's like. And it's. It isn't that bad. Maybe you were right.

[Justin Andrews]

Compliment.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Maybe. Maybe you don't even. Maybe it's so subtle you don't notice. It just. It's more and more and more. Yeah, I mean, you know, just. Just to, you know, just to throw ourselves in the fire here a bit. I mean it's a little bit of like we have. We've kind of made health and fitness look like this in a sense too. I mean.

[Sal Di Stefano]

Yeah, of course.

[Adam Schaefer]

Jacked ass, muscular looking dudes. Okay. As much as I like that. And we all like that isn't like really.

[Sal Di Stefano]

No.

[Adam Schaefer]

It's not like gone to weird places. Well, yeah. And of course, I mean it's actually really weird when you think about it like as. As crazy buff and muscular and stuff like that that we all try to chase after. Like it's the same thing. It's really. Yeah, exactly. It really is the same. The only difference is you have to work out.

[Sal Di Stefano]

Yeah.

[Adam Schaefer]

Well, no. That you organically do it.

[Sal Di Stefano]

Yeah.

[Adam Schaefer]

Like y. I guess maybe if you could do like lip exercises to make them look like that, then it would be more acceptable.

[Justin Andrews]

It's like synthols, like the comparison.

[Sal Di Stefano]

You're right.

[Justin Andrews]

I would say.

[Adam Schaefer]

No.

[Sal Di Stefano]

I see oil.

[Adam Schaefer]

Okay, so that's the. That's the extreme version. But you have to understand that even training enough volume and consistency to get your muscles to look that overly muscular. Here's how there's a bit of that here.

[Sal Di Stefano]

I'll back you up. I'll back you up.

[Adam Schaefer]

Because there's. Okay. There's a difference between strength.

[Justin Andrews]

Like, keep going. Because I know there's a harder conversation.

[Adam Schaefer]

For you because you don't really. You don't really, really. You're not really this guy. Right.

[Justin Andrews]

But I can understand more me and.

[Adam Schaefer]

Sal talking here about, like, our own insecurities and what, like, let's be honest.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah, no, it's.

[Adam Schaefer]

There's a point where you. That muscular and leanness look is no more healthy or functional than what you were, say, £20 less.

[Sal Di Stefano]

I'll back it up. I'll back you up. Adam. What would you know back in the day, maybe even now. Right. If you really train it hard. A compliment. This is what I would take as a compliment. Oh, you're too big now.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah.

[Sal Di Stefano]

Oh, cool. Yeah, that's what I was looking for. I'm onto something. You can stop.

[Adam Schaefer]

Exactly what I was looking for. You look a little too extreme, or.

[Sal Di Stefano]

My mom would be like, you know.

[Justin Andrews]

You need to calm down.

[Sal Di Stefano]

Yeah, you're late. You look too veiny, you know, And I'd leave, but.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah. Someone tell me I look like I got stung by a beat.

[Sal Di Stefano]

Yes, exactly what it was. It doesn't look right. Yeah, that's right. It doesn't look right.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah. So, I mean, 100. I mean, I don't want to. I don't want to come off like the, like, kettle calling it black or whatever like that. We are absolutely the same way when you think about it. The only difference, though, is that you can do that yourself. Right. So there's a. To me, there's a little bit different than when you start injecting, killing muscles, shooting stuff, it. Putting tissue in, doing weird.

[Justin Andrews]

Like, you're better friends.

[Adam Schaefer]

That is a little. That is a little more. But still in a very similar vein.

[Sal Di Stefano]

You know, who's the. Who's the judge on American Idol? Simon. What? Have you seen the recent pictures of him?

[Justin Andrews]

Oh, he's got a lot of work.

[Sal Di Stefano]

Where people are like, oh, no, you need to slow down and stop.

[Justin Andrews]

Oh, it doesn't look like I haven't seen him.

[Sal Di Stefano]

Oh, yeah. Let's see if. Doug, look at. Look, it's a con. It's a lot of controversy around it because he's. Obviously.

[Justin Andrews]

It looks even weirder when men do it for me.

[Sal Di Stefano]

Oh, who was it that did a really bad job? Who's that country singer from back in the day that. His face changed? Brooks. No, no. What's his name? Kenny Loggins.

[Adam Schaefer]

No, Billy Ray Cyrus. Oh yeah, Kenny Rogers. That looks, remember.

[Sal Di Stefano]

Yeah, he went, he like, what happened to your face, dude? You look way different. He went a little too, A little too far.

[Adam Schaefer]

A little too far. Way too. Yeah.

[Sal Di Stefano]

I'll change directions here. I want to talk about Brain FM and I want to. Because people, I've seen people write in on, on and comment on the best ways to use it. The best ways to use, by the way, oh, there he is. Look at his face right there.

[Adam Schaefer]

Is he trying to look all weird in that one?

[Sal Di Stefano]

No, it's just if you watch the whole video of him playing, it doesn't look like him at all. It's, it's pretty crazy. How much now, so, so Brain FM for people don't know you listen to music, but the music's been engineered and there are sounds embed that induce brainwave states. So these are brainwave states that we've identified that will, you know, that are focused or when you're meditating or sleeping. In other words, if you're in a focused state, they can look at your brain waves and a scientist can tell you what's going on. So it's like, oh, this person's focused, this person's sleeping, whatever. So what Brain FM does is you listen to it and through the sound it induces these, these brainwave states. Now the best way to use this is to also focus or concentrate on accomplishing what you're trying to accomplish through the sound. In other words, if you want to focus, listen to focus and then try to focus. And what happens, you get this double whammy of you also trying to focus while the music's also inducing this brainwave state and then watch what happens. Same thing with meditate. Put it on, actually try to meditate. It is wild how quickly you get into those states of mind when you do that kind of combination.

[Adam Schaefer]

It's awesome.

[Sal Di Stefano]

Yeah, it's really cool. If you eat a high protein diet, you will probably benefit from taking the right digestive enzymes. They'll break down the protein, get them to your muscles. By the way, some companies don't make the best digestive enzymes. We work with one that makes the best mastzymes. They are digestive enzymes for fitness enthusiasts that will help with digestive issues and break down those foods for better digestion and absorption. Go to masszymes.com that's M A S S Z Y M E S.com forward slash, mindpump. Use the code mindpump10. Get 10% off. Back to the show.

[Justin Andrews]

Our first caller is Sarah From Virginia.

[Sal Di Stefano]

Hi, Sarah.

[Adam Schaefer]

How you doing, Sarah?

[Sal Di Stefano]

How can we help you?

[Ryan Seacrest]

Hello.

[Zoe Saldana]

Well, I. Well, thank you, guys, first off, because y' all really have. I know you hear it all the time, but y' all really have changed my life. Between you and Dr. Deloney, I've made, like, just a WHO turnaround. So thank you for that.

[Sal Di Stefano]

That's awesome.

[Zoe Saldana]

All right, my question is, how do you tell the difference between just a normal, regular hunger, that's just what you feel versus your body's trying to tell you it's time to up your calories?

[Sal Di Stefano]

What a great question. And I think that this is one of the most important things to learn and figure out as you get on a health and fitness journey that's going to last you a lifetime.

[Adam Schaefer]

This is also how we recommend people utilize tools like fasting.

[Sal Di Stefano]

Yes.

[Adam Schaefer]

To help. To help connect those.

[Sal Di Stefano]

Yeah. So this is important precisely because we. We really haven't learned this in modern societies. Like, you know, if you live in a modern society, you've always had access to food, not only food, but you've had access to whatever food you want for the most part. When you go to the grocery store, and it's just, you know, cornucopia of whatever the heck you desire. And so it's really hard to discern between. And I'll use a different word because I think this helps. Cravings and hunger. So hunger is the. The real desire for nutrients that your body needs. Cravings is a desire to. To indulge in, I don't know, to kind of. To feel better, to experience flavor, taste, pleasure that we can get from food. So that's a very important thing. Very important, I should say, question that you're asking. So there's a couple ways that I would teach people this, and it's a little more complicated than what I'm about to say because it takes some. Takes some time. But a craving is typically specific. So it's like I'm sitting here and I'm like, oh, my God, I'm so hungry for ice cream, or I'm so hungry for pizza. Like, I could really use. I could really eat some Chinese food right now. Hunger is. I'll eat, you know, some chicken breast and broccoli and some rice, or I'll have some steak. Like, really put anything in my. In front of me right now. And I think that I could definitely eat that. So that's the difference. That's one of the main differences between cravings and hunger. So, like, cravings is like, you're with your friends. Hey, it's lunchtime. What do you guys want to eat? And then you have a debate over, you know, well, maybe we can have this or, no, I don't feel like eating that, and I feel like eating this type of thing. Hunger is like, I feel like eating anything especially. Or typically things that will nourish my body. So when you're sitting there thinking, I'm hungry, and you think of a healthy dish, and you're like, nah, I don't really want to eat that right now. You're probably not hungry.

[Adam Schaefer]

Sarah, tell me a little bit about your. Your. Your goals and your kind of journey so far. Like, how long you've been lifting weights for. And have you ever really tried to, like, dial in your nutrition? Like, tell me. Tell me a bit about that.

[Zoe Saldana]

Well, to kind of add a layer onto the nonsense, Mike. Like, growing up, we were very unhealthy. We've always had, me and my sister, just a bad relationship with food because my mom didn't really like grocery shopping or cooking or doing anything. So we were either, like, hungry, hungry all day, and then we would get home to have dinner, and it was either just eat as much as you can before it's gone, or, like, my mom would take half of it, put it on my dad's plate, and then the rest of us would split what was left. So even after eating, like, just still hungry. So I've had, honestly, eating disorders from both sides of the spectrum from just binge eating because I finally have food till I make myself sick, and that was just normal. Growing up, I didn't ever realize that after eating, you're not supposed to feel like that. Until one day I was just like, man, I'm so tired of feeling like this. And so growing up, again, my mom was very overweight herself, and all we heard was, oh, if you want to lose weight, you just have to starve yourself and this and that. So once I got tired of the binge feeling, I was like, all right, I need to get healthy. And so I just wasn't eating very much. I got really skinny, and I still, like, I struggled with body dysmorphia. So even when I was, like, looking back now, I can see I looked like my arms look like toilet paper tubes. Like, I was very tiny and very unhealthy. So I've done that side of it, and then I've done the exercise side of it the wrong way. Just like, I guess it's kind of like ego lifting. Like, I feel like I should be able to do this. And if I can't. Then I just need to try harder. So after I got through all of that and none of that was working, I was actually listening to Dr. DeLoney and I think either he was interviewing you guys or he was a guest on your podcast. And so that led me to y' all. And so now it's been about. I think I started in January, so it hasn't been that long that I've been lifting properly with proper form and eating. And I've gotten the. I guess the. Still have the feeling sometimes of the mental side of it with the anxiety towards like the scale or eating too much and things like that. But I have a much healthier relationship with the scale and with food and with weightlifting now, honestly. And I think honestly from when I started, I did anabolic and I did pre phase phase one and I think half of phase two. And then I got really sick and I took. I've had to take about a month off just for my health. I couldn't hardly breathe. I've had asthma. And so when I get sick, sometimes it puts my breathing just really messed up for a while. So after that I started Muscle Mommy and I'm actually. Today was day two of phase three. So since then I've actually only had a two pound difference, but my whole entire body looks completely different.

[Adam Schaefer]

It's awesome.

[Zoe Saldana]

So I'm finally starting to see the results. But I still. Before I started from processed foods, I went totally whole foods and I wasn't tracking. And then I noticed I was like really hungry all the time and feeling so tired. So I finally started tracking and it turns out I was actually only eating like 800 to 1000 calories. So I immediately jumped up to 1500 and I didn't have any weight gain from that and I was still feeling very hungry, so I went to 1800 and that's when I sent y' all the message because I was still just like all day, just like I could eat anything if I could just let myself do it. So I wasn't sure if it was because of my past. I'm like, not really trust myself to know, is this actual hunger or is this just my body? Like, this isn't the norm. We're trying to go back to normal. But since I sent the question in, I've actually jumped to 2100 with still no weight gain, still getting results and thinking about jumping up again, but still have that feeling of I don't know if I should or if it's the mistake or if it's the right Choice. So, yeah, coaster since January.

[Adam Schaefer]

That, that helps so much. Glad I asked because now I definitely wouldn't recommend fasting as a tool. That would be a bad idea. And it actually sounds like your intuition is on, on point. You're, you're doing the right things. And I like the idea of going up another 200 calories. I think that what you are feeling, especially since you've already noticed body composition change, especially you've noticed increasing calories and no weight gain. Your body is wanting more and you're, and you're. Sounds like you're lifting weights properly and you're probably, it's trying to build muscle and it wants, it wants the nutrients it needs to do that. And so I, I would totally do that. I'd love to. If you're not already, Sarah, in our private forum, I'd love to give you access to that. That way. Yeah. Okay, well, I'm gonna have Doug give you access to that. I love the program you're on. That's totally fine. I think you're, that's great. That way, as you go through this process, if you start to question yourself again whether you should or shouldn't be doing that, we can kind of be there to help support you along. But I actually think you're doing a really good job. Like, you're doing a great, A great job. And what you're feeling is normal. But what you're probably feeling because of all the things you told us is your body wanting to build muscle and it wanting more calories. And so I would give it another couple hundred calories and see how you feel and what your performance looks like and body composition. So I think you're doing great.

[Sal Di Stefano]

Yeah, you're doing such a great job, Sarah. So here's what this is going to look like for you. More specifically, this is going to be a process of awareness and it's going to start with some structure. It's not going to end this way, but it's going to start with a little bit of structure. So you're going to up your calories and then you're going to eat at regular intervals. Okay. So you're going to build this kind of practice. So you're gonna eat, you know, three or four meals a day. You're gonna kind of eat them regularly. You're gonna make sure you have your protein. It's not gonna end this way, but this is just to help you bring awareness. And then what I want you to do when you eat is don't eat while you're distracted. And I want you to really focus on how you feel. How is this making me feel? Do I feel satisfied or full? Do I still feel hunger? You know, do I get more energy from this? And then I want you to really pay attention to your performance. I think your strengths, length gains in the gym are going to direct you better than anything right now. So if you're getting stronger, you're moving in the right direction. I don't think the scale is a good idea. And I also don't think studying your body in the mirror is a good idea at this moment. So you're on the. You're at this kind of beginning stage of really starting to understand what your body's signals are telling you and then discerning between, you know, good signals and maybe bad relationship type stuff. But you are moving in the right direction.

[Adam Schaefer]

Doing good.

[Zoe Saldana]

Thank you. And where I. Right now, depending on the day, I do track. So I. It is an accurate number, but I'm between, like, 158 and 175 grams of protein.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yep.

[Zoe Saldana]

So where should the calories come from? Should I add more protein or should I be more concerned with fat or carbs?

[Adam Schaefer]

How low is your fat? That also might be why you're hungry, too. How low is your fat? Fat?

[Zoe Saldana]

It's usually between 50 and 58.

[Adam Schaefer]

Bump your fat up. Your fat. Yeah, definitely. And that actually might help a lot.

[Sal Di Stefano]

Yeah.

[Adam Schaefer]

It's how you feel.

[Sal Di Stefano]

Yeah. Most women I've appreciated that way. Yep. Most women I've trained need more than that.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah.

[Sal Di Stefano]

If that's essential. So I would bump it.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah.

[Zoe Saldana]

All right. Thank you. And then just one last question. If you have time. It's probably always been there, and I just haven't noticed because I've never been able to see my muscles. But I'm noticing a difference in size between right and left, and I'm wondering how much is, like, a normal difference for, you know, a dominant side versus when I should be, like, focusing on trying to catch the other side up right now.

[Sal Di Stefano]

I would tell you not to study your body to look for discrepancies. I think that's going to move you in the wrong direction. However, after muscle mommy, follow symmetry.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yep.

[Justin Andrews]

Yes.

[Adam Schaefer]

That's the perfect program.

[Justin Andrews]

Follow up to.

[Sal Di Stefano]

That's it.

[Justin Andrews]

We'll address that completely.

[Sal Di Stefano]

Let me send that to you, Sarah. We'll send you symmetry, too. You okay?

[Zoe Saldana]

Thank you.

[Sal Di Stefano]

You got it.

[Adam Schaefer]

All right.

[Zoe Saldana]

Appreciate you guys. Again, thank you for this call and for guiding me and kind of breaking me free from a generational cycle of just nonsense.

[Adam Schaefer]

Good for you. Good for you, Sarah.

[Justin Andrews]

You're doing awesome.

[Sal Di Stefano]

Thanks for calling.

[Zoe Saldana]

Y' all have a good day.

[Adam Schaefer]

You do.

[Sal Di Stefano]

You too. Hey, man, I am so glad you asked that, because I just went into. Yeah. Giving advice and that context is so important.

[Adam Schaefer]

Oh, yeah.

[Sal Di Stefano]

And how.

[Adam Schaefer]

I mean, it changed the complete advice. I mean, I. When we first started talking, I thought, oh, man, this is a great example of someone who should do some fasting and then figure. But then when you hear real hunger, you're like, no, that's not. You don't do that. But doing great job. I mean, as far as someone who is. What only been listening to us for a half a year is trying to use the information she's learning in her own intuition. I mean, she's on the right track. And I bet you once she bumps that fat goes up another 200 calories, she's gonna feel better. She'll know strength go up, probably the appetite won't be as bad. Yeah, I think she's. She's doing really good. But, yeah, that. That context really makes a difference.

[Sal Di Stefano]

It always does on.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah. How you advise that person?

[Sal Di Stefano]

Our next caller is Colin from Tennessee.

[Adam Schaefer]

Colin, what's going on, guy?

[Sal Di Stefano]

I know I know you.

[Adam Schaefer]

Hey, guys.

[Ryan Seacrest]

Good seeing y' all again.

[Justin Andrews]

What's up, homie?

[Sal Di Stefano]

How you doing, dude?

[Ryan Seacrest]

Doing well? Yeah, just living the dream. One day at a time.

[Sal Di Stefano]

How's baby?

[Ryan Seacrest]

Baby's good. She has a stomach bug right now and she's teething.

[Sal Di Stefano]

So good times.

[Ryan Seacrest]

No sleep for us.

[Sal Di Stefano]

Yeah.

[Ryan Seacrest]

And so we also own a dance studio, and we just did our show, so there was no sleep there either. So I'm just. I'm kind of giving up on sleep for a little bit.

[Sal Di Stefano]

Well, when we get off.

[Justin Andrews]

This is a fake background.

[Sal Di Stefano]

Yeah, maybe we'll show you. Maybe we'll have you show us some dances later. Anyway. Ask your question.

[Ryan Seacrest]

No, I do the props and special effects. I don't do the dancing.

[Sal Di Stefano]

All right, all right.

[Ryan Seacrest]

So I don't know that I said this last time I was on this when we did this a year and a half ago, but I just want to say I appreciate you guys, all that you do, all the information you put out. Super helpful, you know, over the past 10 years, listening from the beginning. So just wanted to say that.

[Adam Schaefer]

Awesome.

[Ryan Seacrest]

So my question is, how do you develop thick skin as a trainer? And for those listening, that's thick with a CK and not two Cs, just to clarify. So. And I'll. I'll read a little bit of my message, but I take A lot of personal interest in my, all my clients, right. Like, if I, if I meet with someone, I just feel like the connection's not really that great. Like I'll. I'll kind of like shut that down. So all my clients, I really care about every aspect of their life. Home, family, kids. If they're a Christian like me, I'm asking about their faith and their walk and what they're reading, what they're, you know, all those things. Because I really care about all the intricate details there. And so I'll share one client in particular that, you know, I typically tell clients like, you have to give training at least a year to, you know, you can't come in and expect 30 days, 60 days, 90 days, and to see this massive stuff. So I typically tell everyone, like, give it a year and then kind of gauge how you feel. And so for this client in particular, she, in the first six months, she. Her shoulder pain that she had for four years was gone. Her pelvic floor issues that she had had for several years was gone. She was, when we started, she was eating 1200 calories. And then six months later, she's eating about 1600 calories. Her weight stayed the same and there was something. Oh, and we did it all virtually right, which is my least favorite way of training. But it went really, really well, right? Gave her all, I mean, the same thing. I'm like giving her prime exercises and assessments and we did the whole thing. And so, and I, I definitely remember from the beginning forecasting for her and walking her through, like, hey, this is what's going to happen. This is kind of what we're going to see, right? You're going to get three months into this and go, I don't know about it, but then you're gonna get another three minutes to see another three months and see some progress. But then you're gonna be like, I don't know about it. And it's like, these cycles are going to happen anyways. We got six months into it and I wake up to the text one day and she's like, I'm done, right? This isn't for me. And so as someone who just. I really take a personal interest in my clients to the nth degree and trying to make sure I over communicate things. It's really hard for me to pick myself back up from those things because I know I have to take ownership of them calling it quits and them not succeeding. But when I look back at some of those, I don't know what to do. Different in particular, and I'll also say this, that even before you guys had mind pump trainers, the benchmark I've always used over the past eight years as a trainer is would I be good enough to be a mind pump trainer or really it was to work for you guys. And that's my, that's kind of like how I gauge, like, am I growing? Am I moving towards that? And when I typed this message out, it was like April 28th and I was like, I don't know that I really want to send it. Later that day I saw on Facebook where Sal had posted like two weeks earlier about what it takes to be a mind pump trainer. And so I'm reading through it and one of his snippets was about having thick skin. And honestly I read that and I was like, I don't want to send this message because I don't want to look weak as a trainer. Like I've been doing this for eight years. I've listened to you guys for 10 years, but I still feel like I suck. And so it's really hard to figure out how do I give myself grace and pick myself up and keep going when like, I mean this is the, this is what I love doing. Like if I would not be. I work, I own a dance studio with my wife. I own a personal training studio and I work a full time job. That's, it's way too much. But I love the training so much, I, I can't let it go. It's where I want to get. And so it's really hard to. Not when I have those interactions with clients that I feel like I gave 110% to that they like, no, this is, it's, it's not working to not take it personally and be like, I'm, I'm eight years into this and I'm nowhere near where I should be or good enough to be even a decent trainer. So long winded. But the question is how do I, how do I develop up thicker skin as a trainer? And ultimately the reason I decided to send the message anyways was because my skin's not going to get thick by ignoring it.

[Colin]

Right.

[Ryan Seacrest]

So I want to get better at it. So that's ultimately why I'm here.

[Sal Di Stefano]

Yeah. Good job, Colin. I.

[Adam Schaefer]

There is the possibility that you do suck, Colin.

[Sal Di Stefano]

Yeah, no, that's not bad.

[Ryan Seacrest]

I will get a T shirt.

[Justin Andrews]

Just hang out with Adam or that.

[Sal Di Stefano]

Can I tell you, hey, we like you. That's why we tease you. By the way. We don't tease everybody.

[Adam Schaefer]

It's me helping you out. Your thick skin.

[Sal Di Stefano]

Look, look, look, look. All right, listen, I'm gonna just straight up, okay? We don't hire trainers because of their skills. We hire trainers because of their character. Thick skin is not, you know, oh, I'm just not going to complain. I'm not going to talk about this struggle. Thick skin is actually being vulnerable because when your skin isn't thick, you don't want to show your weakness. You're afraid of showing your weakness. So you kind of got some thick skin by getting on here and talking about. And you have good character. Call. I'm going to tell you that right now. Now I'm going to stop pumping your tires. I'm going to tell you the truth about being a trainer. There's two truths here. Everything is your fault, and you will never have all the answers. So you're in a position where. Here's the good part. You're like, man, I did something wrong or I couldn't figure this out. That's true. But here's the other truth. You'll never figure it all out. You'll never be able to figure it out. There's always going to be people that are going to not move in the right direction or that you're not going to be able to impact in the ways that you think are going to help them. And that's just the way it is. That's just what it means to be a trainer. But on the other end of it, your pursuit of trying to figure that out is what's going to make you better. Here's what's not going to make you better. Thinking I'm terrible. I'm crap, I'm whatever. No, here's what you say. I don't have all the answers. I'm going to keep going. I don't have all the answers. I'm going to keep going. So when that would happen to me, and I hated it. I hated it because, oh, okay, why couldn't I get to this client? Why couldn't I figure this out? Why did they stop? Like, that's going to make me better. So let me just keep. Let me try to figure this out. Out. But also understand I will never figure everything out. It's impossible. That's what's going to make. That's what's going to continue. Because I think you're already a great trainer. It's going to continue to make you a better and better trainer. And the longer you do this, the better you're going to get. And I don't think it's ever going to stop.

[Adam Schaefer]

It's a lot like, it's a lot like baseball, bro. The, the greatest batters ever to live missed 70% of the time. It's just there's, there's a variable in this that you can't control. You. Now you take responsibility as what could I done better? How can I get better? I mean, that's how you stay growth minded. That's how you continue to get better. But the reality is that you're still going to fail, you know, at least 50 to 70% of time. And that's because the other variable, that's if you're good. Yeah. That's that that person still has to follow through. They still have to want it. And sometimes no matter how great you are, they're, they're just not ready for that step yet in their life. And you know, maybe you, maybe you played, and maybe you played a much bigger role than you think. Maybe she leaves and a year or two from now she realizes, oh man, that was the best I ever felt when I was working with Colin and, and like I got, you know, he really would tell me this and I need to get back to that. And you know, you don't know. But at this time she's, she may not be ready for that now to add to that, I also like to, with situations like that, investigate as much as I can from the client. Like, I would like someone, if someone sent me that texted interview, I'd be like, oh man, what, you know, I, I totally let you down and failed you. What are some of the things that I could have done better or what, what makes you feel that way? Like, I'm gonna, I'm gonna pull out. I want to get to the bottom. Because sometimes what happens too is these people don't want to admit or tell you that something's going on financially with them or that there's another reason, real reason. But I'm going to give you the surface answer of, oh, it's just not working out for me. And so your immediate default is, oh, there's something wrong with me. But really what might be is as you start to pull that thread, you find out that, oh, my husband just lost his job and we don't know how we're going to take care of the bills next month. I certainly can't be paying for this personal trainer, but I don't want to tell my personal trainer that that's my, that's my husband and I's is, you know what I'm saying? So I'm just going to tell him it's not working out. So. So I. I want to investigate to get to the real root cause of what is it? Was it she'd not seen the results enough? Was it. Was. Were I. Was I overbearing and messaging her to, like, what was it? So I could. Can step my game up the next time and improve.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah. Find out really what her expectations were. And that's the thing, like, being able to ask those questions, I think that's. That's super important. And even if it's going well, like, just continually kind of have that kind of dialogue between your clients of, you know, how are we feeling about how things are going? And, you know, and then you can go back and really reevaluate that beginning process of how you can refine it and what. What you could put in front of them to do a better job of kind of outlining this whole thing. And maybe it is a bombardment of information. Maybe it's something like that that we need to reevaluate and pull back a little bit. And so, yeah, there's. There's just a lot of data there that I'm always going back and overanalyzing these things because. And two, you got to let it go. You got. You got to let them go. And a lot of times, like Adam said, they. They'll come back if.

[Sal Di Stefano]

If.

[Justin Andrews]

If you're really. Your heart's into it, and. And they know that you had their best interest in mind, they'll go seek somebody else because they have this weird expectation that they should have had this within, like, a month. And, you know, they're gonna come back and be like, oh, my God, that's not what I needed. And Colin, you know, outlined exactly what was going to happen, and I didn't listen.

[Sal Di Stefano]

Yeah. Yeah. You know, it's funny you guys are saying that. That I. I distinctly remember a couple times where I had a client tell me they wanted to stop, and I asked them why, and you know what they said to me? They said, it's because I keep. I keep messing up, man. I just keep messing up. And I said, well, of course this is hard. Yeah, you're gonna mess up. This is very challenging, but we're moving in the right direction. And they stayed with me. They stayed with me because of it. The other. The other side of this is. Let me ask you this, Colin, in all honesty, to your. To the best of your knowledge, with the time that she was with you, you. Do you think she had a good experience?

[Ryan Seacrest]

Yeah. Up until she quit. Okay. She was excited. I mean, she made posts and tagged me, like about her shoulder pain and muscle definition and all that stuff.

[Sal Di Stefano]

Colin, you did a good job.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah.

[Sal Di Stefano]

This is a journey. So she. Now this, here's what you've done now. You've given her a good experience with healthier lifestyle. Do you think that's going to benefit her moving forward?

[Ryan Seacrest]

Yes.

[Sal Di Stefano]

Okay. Do you know how, you know how many times a trainer gives somebody a bad experience and they never try again? Happens all the time. Yep. So on this side, it sounds like you did a good job. It just, it sounds like you did a great job.

[Adam Schaefer]

I would, I would investigate more. You could ask questions like, totally. If, if we were to be continuing on for another year. What? What? Or how did you need to feel at this moment?

[Justin Andrews]

Moment.

[Adam Schaefer]

Like obviously you were, you were doing good, you did your post, you were happy, everything's been fine.

[Sal Di Stefano]

What could I have done to keep you?

[Adam Schaefer]

And all of a sudden you don't feel that way. So what, what was the feeling you were expecting to have at this moment? Like in order for us to continue on? What, what, what was it that you don't feel or have? Right.

[Ryan Seacrest]

Well, okay, I'll share something else that she said. This was actually a while ago, but this is the whole point of asking the question because it takes me so long to process. She, I told her from the beginning that we will be using maps based programs and later she comes back and goes, I don't think these are appropriate for me. Right. I'm like, okay. And I didn't really clarify, but she was like, yeah, I just, I think it's too much. It's overkill.

[Sal Di Stefano]

Right?

[Ryan Seacrest]

It's overkill. But you're seeing more muscle definition in your shoulder pain and pelvic floor.

[Adam Schaefer]

Wait a second, wait a second. Let's pause there for a second. Okay, so here, this is, there's something we can, I can help you with right now. So if. So if a client tells me that this is where you hear us talk about meeting people where they're at, that maybe it is too much for her.

[Justin Andrews]

She's.

[Adam Schaefer]

Whatever. Maybe Map Starter was better. It would have been better for her. Maybe half the exercises. Map Starter is better for her. And then you. But, but here, and here's it. You. We what you don't ever want to do. Okay, so what you just did right there, and I don't know if you did it that way, is she expressed of how she feels about something like that? And instead of re. Accepting it, receiving it and trying to meet her somewhere. You defended your case on why you have her on that program where I would have said something more like, oh, really? What is it about that? Is it. Do you feel like it's too many exercises? Are you too sore? What is it about the program that feels like it's too much? Because sometimes it can be for people.

[Sal Di Stefano]

It's also.

[Adam Schaefer]

And get more information. And maybe what she says is just like, yeah, I just, I'm not ready to have, you know, three days a week, or these exercises are too difficult. Like, oh, I totally get it. Some of my clients aren't ready for some of these movements. Let's do this. Let's go back and we'll start on this. I totally. You know what I'm saying?

[Sal Di Stefano]

Like, this is chess, not checkers.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah.

[Sal Di Stefano]

So she says, this is too much for me, you know, okay, is this an argument.

[Adam Schaefer]

You try to jump her right away.

[Sal Di Stefano]

Is this an argument that I need to win? You know, I just want to do less. All right, let's do less.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah, let's do less.

[Ryan Seacrest]

I didn't actually, I didn't say that to her whenever she sent me that message. So. But. But what's funny is she's also the type of person who would ask me if she was doing enough.

[Sal Di Stefano]

Yeah, yeah, that's. That's common client.

[Ryan Seacrest]

I'm like, I'm getting some bipolar signals here. Okay.

[Sal Di Stefano]

Yep.

[Adam Schaefer]

Right.

[Ryan Seacrest]

Like this, you know, so that it's. I will say. I will say this. And I don't know if this is progress or not, but it's. It's set in me certain ways of communicating things in the beginning to make it maybe change how I communicated, how the journey works. And so, so some in particular are. One, I tell people before we start a segment, say, I, as your coach and trainer, am not a shortcut to fast results. I'm a shortcut to long term results. And then I say that your journey is like building a puzzle. And it's going to take time. And we have to build the perimeter first and then we fill it in. And so we have to do the foundational truths, right? It's lifting weights, it's protein, it's, you know, water, it's sleep. It's all these things, right? And so that way people kind of have this visual of, like, we're putting your pieces in. It's not just like you dump it out and like, oh, look, there's a puzzle. It's beautiful, right? And. And you have to sift through which pieces fit and where they Fit for you. So I will say that that may be a positive that's come out of those situations is trying to change how I communicate very.

[Sal Di Stefano]

I love that analogy. I love that analogy. You know, what's the most important thing that a trainer does above everything else, because it makes everything else possible, is do they enjoy spending time with you? That's literally the most important thing. And I used to get caught in this probably the first half of my career where I just would get caught in teaching. I would get caught. It was more important to me that I taught them something than they were happy to be there. It's actually less important because I can't teach you anything unless you want to be here. So there were clients I trained. I'm not making this up. Call. I had clients I trained for three years, and all they would do is show up to the workouts, and they made no other changes in their lives because it just wasn't happening. And that's okay. We're gonna. As long as you show up up and you're having a good time, then that's fine for now because I'm gonna. I'm gonna keep working this.

[Adam Schaefer]

Colin, do you still make. Do you still make the time to listen to us talk to live callers? All the live callers?

[Ryan Seacrest]

Yes.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah, that's really good for you because this is an example. And. And hopefully you get to see this live with us when we do. This whole time is how many times have you heard us ask questions? A bunch of questions. We only got, remember, we only got, like, five minutes with these people. We asked a bunch of questions, and then we already can, like, pinpoint that personality or what that person. Person. So, yeah, maybe looking back, the growth part for me, if I'm you, is like, damn it, I could have asked better questions when we first met to get a better idea of the type of personality she is, that she was going to be somebody who expected this or wanted that or thought that. That way I could have forecasted better. Yeah, right. So there. There's the growth opportunity there. And. And this. This takes years, bro. I mean, I. It probably was 10 years before I thought I was really good at this, where I could talk to somebody for five to 10 minutes. Now you have more than five, 10 minutes than we do. But that. You. I could talk to you in one one, sit down and really get a good idea of, like, oh, okay. This is going to be the type of client that wants this and thinks that. And so I can already kind of see the hurdles. So your. For like right now, it sounds like you have this kind of general forecasting for everybody where your forecasting becomes very specific to that person. Like, I. And you've heard me talk about this before. I love to talk. Talked to people about a client that I had when I'm talking about them, right? Like, oh, yeah, I had this client, but it's really me honing in on, like, oh, having that social awareness of, oh, she's going to be like this. She's going to think my programming is too weak and not enough or. Or whatever. And so I will talk about that client, but I'm really talking. So maybe getting better at your forecasting instead of having this. Because that is a great little spiel you have, but it's very generic in general, where my forecasting is always. I'm trying to forecast what I think this person is going to be challenged with, not what everybody is challenged with. Like what is unique to her or him.

[Sal Di Stefano]

Yeah.

[Ryan Seacrest]

I have taken that play out of your book several times.

[Adam Schaefer]

Good.

[Sal Di Stefano]

You're better than most trainers. You're already definitely better than most people already. And you're eight years in. And this is like, when things get. This is when you start to really become a black belt. So keep it up.

[Adam Schaefer]

You're doing good, bro.

[Ryan Seacrest]

Yeah, I appreciate that because I feel like I'm eight years in, but. But I feel like compar. Comparatively, I'm like two years in.

[Colin]

Right.

[Ryan Seacrest]

So I don't feel like I'm two years away from 10 years.

[Sal Di Stefano]

Yeah. No, no, no, you're good, dude. You're doing good.

[Adam Schaefer]

You are calling.

[Sal Di Stefano]

You're doing good.

[Adam Schaefer]

Doing good, bro.

[Ryan Seacrest]

I appreciate it, guys. Thank you so much.

[Sal Di Stefano]

You got it, man. Thanks for calling in. You know what he's going through. I can't remember the name of this, but there's like this gun bar. Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

God, I love you, Justin. Number.

[Sal Di Stefano]

It's like our brains are connected. I don't know if that's what it is, but I. I know you think the same thing. Yes.

[Justin Andrews]

It's where you know, the, the less you realize, you realize, you know.

[Sal Di Stefano]

Yeah. Because when you first become a trainer, I know everything. Then the longer you become a trainer, you're like, I know nothing. And it's like this process. That's where he's at right now.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah.

[Sal Di Stefano]

Our next caller is Nicholas from Massachusetts. Sup, Nicholas?

[Justin Andrews]

What's happening, man?

[Colin]

What's going on, guys?

[Sal Di Stefano]

How you doing, bro? How can we help you?

[Colin]

Good, good. Appreciate you taking my question. It's awesome.

[Adam Schaefer]

What you got for us?

[Colin]

Question is so. So I'm going to take you back four years, right when I really started getting into fitness and health and wellness, everything. I started training jiu Jitsu four years ago. And since that time, I was getting ready for a competition. This is four years ago. I was getting ready for a competition. Wanted to cut to 205 for my weight class. I was 215, training Jiu Jitsu and lifting cardio every day, day. And I cut down to 1700 calories. In hindsight, I know way too low. May 205 easy. No problem. After the competition, still trained jitsu, still lift. Didn't really focus on the diet, but everything was still clean, clean eating. My weight maintained from 205 to 210ish for a couple years. Last year, I wanted to do a legit cut. So I cut my calories down to 2400 calories. Kept protein as my priority. Continue to train, continue to lift. And I didn't lose a single pound, which is I thought was odd. The summer hit, so I kind of cruised through the summer. Didn't really focus on my diet, but again, continue to lift, continue to change jitsu. When the holidays hit, same thing. Didn't really focus on the diet. After that, I was like, you know what? Let me try and do a bulk. So I increased my calories to 3,400cal. Continue to lift. Can train a change of jitsu. I trained, I changed the way I lifted. I did three days a week, full body, focused on higher reps. Trained to almost failure. Gained 10 pounds. I was noticeably stronger. I was noticeably bigger in the mirror, my physique. And I was, all right, cool, let me try and cut. So I was 220 when this happened. I was like, all right, cool, let me try and cut now. Cut down to 2, 800 calories. Still did three days a week, full body, did. But I increased my weight, lowered my reps, and didn't lose a single pound for four months. Cut down to 2700 calories. Added in Zone 2 cardio once a week. And same thing. Didn't lose a single pound, which I thought was odd. And looking at it now, I think my. I totally jacked up my potassium, my metabolism, and I messed it up. So I'm just looking to get your insight on it.

[Sal Di Stefano]

Yeah. I'm gonna assume you're tracking accurately. Correct? Correct.

[Ryan Seacrest]

Yeah.

[Colin]

Oh, yeah.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah.

[Sal Di Stefano]

Okay. Yeah. So I also saw in your question, you're firefighter in a busy city.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah.

[Colin]

Yeah.

[Sal Di Stefano]

Okay. And you're doing. And you're doing jiu Jitsu. How many days a week.

[Colin]

On average? Full. I try and train five.

[Sal Di Stefano]

Hold on a second. Okay, hold on.

[Adam Schaefer]

Five plus.

[Sal Di Stefano]

Hold on, hold on, hold on. Adam, before we jump on this, four days a week, Jiu Jitsu, it's probably what, two hour, two hour classes? Is that what they are?

[Colin]

Yeah. Yeah. Give it take.

[Sal Di Stefano]

And then you're doing lifting three days a week.

[Colin]

Yeah.

[Sal Di Stefano]

And then you're eating and then you're doing cardio.

[Ryan Seacrest]

Yeah.

[Colin]

Yeah.

[Sal Di Stefano]

Okay.

[Adam Schaefer]

And you have a stressful job.

[Sal Di Stefano]

Yeah. And you got a stressful job. And you get crappy sleep all the time. Because I know firefighters.

[Colin]

Yeah.

[Sal Di Stefano]

Where do you think I'm going here? Yeah. Listen, by a lot, bro, your metabolism is actually healthy.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah, that's right.

[Sal Di Stefano]

It's really healthy, bro. It is protecting you. Yeah. You're over trained to hell. You're under slapped and you're trying to go into calorie deficit. Like, thank God that your metabolism is doing what it's doing because it's keeping you going. Is what's happening storing energy. That's right. And you seem like you're a young man. I'm gonna tell you right now, you keep on this path, you're gonna crash hard. If your testosterone isn't already in the floor, it will be. So you're overdoing it like crazy. Like crazy. And you're trying to cut. That's crazy. What's your priority with fitness? Is it Jiu Jitsu or is it strength training? Training.

[Colin]

Oh, it's so tough to answer.

[Ryan Seacrest]

Both.

[Colin]

But realistically, I know that's not an answer.

[Sal Di Stefano]

Yeah.

[Adam Schaefer]

So you love Jiu Jitsu. You love Jiu Jitsu.

[Colin]

I love it.

[Adam Schaefer]

Okay. You're a one day a week.

[Sal Di Stefano]

Max. Yeah, max.

[Adam Schaefer]

One day a week. That's it.

[Sal Di Stefano]

Max. You're going to Jiu Jitsu four to five days a week. You're gonna lift once a week and moderate intensity. And you're not trained to failure. Yeah, that's it. And you're not doing cardio. You're already doing plenty of cardio. No additional anything. Yeah. Focus on your sleep and then start feeding yourself properly and stay there for a little while before you decide to cut.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah. Don't think about cutting your bulking thing. About eating for maintenance right now.

[Sal Di Stefano]

That's it.

[Adam Schaefer]

Eat to take care of your body. Okay. Which maybe for you is going to be somewhere around 26 to 2800 calories, if I had to guess, maybe more.

[Sal Di Stefano]

Probably around 3,000.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah. I mean, but where he's currently at now, because I'm Sure. He's. It's slowed down because of all the. All the. Over training. So. So I would work your way. You would be in, like a reverse diet, Right. We probably. I'd probably start you somewhere around 26 to 2800. And the goal is to keep moving that up to where until you get somewhere around 3,000, 3, 400 calories. And then what should happen is without any more additional anything, you just slowly lean out, you build a little bit.

[Sal Di Stefano]

Your body's gonna change on its own.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah. And. And you. And that. And you don't need any more. And doing more is not going to speed it up. It's only gonna set you back again.

[Sal Di Stefano]

Yeah. Here's what's gonna happen. You're gonna. You're gonna. You're gonna go down to one day a week of strength training. Four to five exercises max, moderate intensity, and you're going to keep your calories around what Adam said. And what's going to happen is you're going to get stronger. Your Jiu Jitsu game is going to get better. You're going to start feeling better, and then your body's slowly going to get leaner without having to do lots of cuts.

[Colin]

So I figured you guys are going.

[Adam Schaefer]

To say that.

[Colin]

With that. So I have a competition coming up in September.

[Adam Schaefer]

Right.

[Colin]

I'm 220 now, and I want to compete at 205 because I'm a small 220.

[Adam Schaefer]

No, it's not the priority.

[Sal Di Stefano]

Dumb. Yeah, that'd be a big mistake.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah.

[Sal Di Stefano]

Why are you trying to cut weight for Jiu Jitsu, dude? You're.

[Adam Schaefer]

You're.

[Sal Di Stefano]

You're a firefighter. What are you doing?

[Colin]

Oh, because. So to compete at 220, I'm. Like I said, I'm a small 220. I'm gonna go in there and get destroyed.

[Sal Di Stefano]

Okay.

[Colin]

205 is where I'm at.

[Sal Di Stefano]

What is. What do you get? How much. What's the prize money if you win, by the way? A million dollars.

[Colin]

Oh, no, I.

[Sal Di Stefano]

Will. You get a stupid trophy.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah.

[Sal Di Stefano]

Listen, you're gonna. You're gonna crash yourself if you try to cut 15 lb. Tournament so you can. Whatever. You're better off.

[Justin Andrews]

It's the All Valley Tournament.

[Sal Di Stefano]

Yeah. You're better off going into it healthy and feeling good and then doing the best job you can. And, you know, how long you been to Jiu Jitsu?

[Colin]

Four years, four and a half.

[Sal Di Stefano]

So what are you, blue or purple?

[Colin]

Blue.

[Sal Di Stefano]

Okay. You just. Just modify your game and play the best game that you can, and that's it. And if you lose, so what? But you. But don't destroy your metabolism, Pursuit of this, or destroy your body in pursuit of this, this. This trophy. And go into it healthy.

[Adam Schaefer]

And, Nicholas, maybe later on, after we prioritize your health and getting back, we can talk about cutting down to that weight class. But right now is not the right time to do it. You're in a position right now where your body's trying to scream at you to get healthy and take care of it. Right? Get rested, get fed, exercise properly. That's what it's trying to tell you. And then you want to push it to another extreme level. Right now. It's just not the timing. Doesn't mean that I couldn't take you, say, a year or two from now and go, hey, you want to get in that 200 class? Now that we got a healthy metabolism, you've got a better balance with sleep and food and exercise. Now, we can do this together. Let's do it right? But right now, in this moment, this. That's not a good folk. It's an opposite focus.

[Sal Di Stefano]

And I'll tell you right now, the odds that you'll do well in the Jiu Jitsu tournament at a healthy. Lots of energy, feeling good. 220 is better than you going in at 205, cutting your calories way down and over trained.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah.

[Sal Di Stefano]

Okay. And you also. Is this ghee or no gi? What, are you competing? Oh, God. With the ghee, too? £15. It's not gonna make that big of a difference. You know this. You go. I bet you go against guys that are 160 that kick your butt because their technique is so good. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. No, no. Go in there. Healthy Jiu Jitsu, Keep it up. One day a week, strength training, like we said. Keep your calories up and then watch what happens.

[Colin]

All right?

[Sal Di Stefano]

That's it.

[Colin]

All right, cool.

[Sal Di Stefano]

You got it, man.

[Colin]

Appreciate it.

[Sal Di Stefano]

You got it, brother.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yes.

[Sal Di Stefano]

Thanks for calling in, man. I didn't know.

[Colin]

I didn't know I was gonna get yelled at like this.

[Justin Andrews]

That's how it goes sometimes.

[Sal Di Stefano]

Yeah. I appreciate you, man.

[Adam Schaefer]

Thanks for the work you do. Yeah. Just listen, though, okay? Don't, don't, don't just get off the phone and be like those guys and go do your thing.

[Justin Andrews]

Angry uncles.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah. If you trust us, I promise you.

[Colin]

My angry uncle's old to me.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah.

[Sal Di Stefano]

All right. Hey, by the way, let me send you a program that I think you'll like. Maps 15 performance. Let's send that to him. Yeah, that's a good program for. For guys like you who like doing Jiu jitsu and stuff like that. Up. Cool.

[Colin]

I appreciate it.

[Sal Di Stefano]

You got it, man.

[Adam Schaefer]

All right, man.

[Colin]

Thanks, thanks.

[Adam Schaefer]

Have one of our trainers call him.

[Sal Di Stefano]

Yeah, I like his is a Boston accent. I almost asked him if you like these apples.

[Justin Andrews]

Can you say wicked real quick?

[Sal Di Stefano]

Yeah.

[Adam Schaefer]

Oh, wicked.

[Sal Di Stefano]

Like I've listening to it. I'm like four bro. Jiu jitsu. I did Jiu jitsu. I did it in my 20s.

[Adam Schaefer]

Four days of Jiu Jitsu, period.

[Sal Di Stefano]

Or five.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah.

[Sal Di Stefano]

Two hours of.

[Justin Andrews]

Two hours.

[Adam Schaefer]

You're.

[Sal Di Stefano]

You're wrestling hard, dude. That beats you up. You ain't doing a bunch of lifting with that?

[Adam Schaefer]

No, not. You're not doing hardly even the lifting he does should be moderate.

[Sal Di Stefano]

That's right.

[Adam Schaefer]

And he said he was training to failure and three days a week and.

[Sal Di Stefano]

Cardio and he's a firefighter.

[Adam Schaefer]

Probably a up schedule too. The four or four on five off thing they do where they're like 24 hour. We didn't even get into that.

[Justin Andrews]

I'm like he walked into a buzzsaw.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah, well, I mean, as he was listing all of it all. And here's the thing, you know what? He's 29 years old. He's young, so he's resilient as. And so that's where you get in your head because you can. Y cuz I can.

[Sal Di Stefano]

That's why I told him you keep.

[Adam Schaefer]

Going, it's your body's gonna smack you. I mean, I love that you hinted to the testosterone too. I. But about now, if he's been doing that for a long enough time, he's.

[Sal Di Stefano]

Oh, I think I. I said that on purpose because I guarantee he's already feeling the effects of low testosterone.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah, yeah. So for sure.

[Sal Di Stefano]

Our next caller is Gage from Hawaii. What's up, Gage?

[Adam Schaefer]

How you doing, Gage?

[Sal Di Stefano]

Yo.

[Gage]

Hey guys. How's it going?

[Sal Di Stefano]

Good, good, man, chilling.

[Gage]

The studio looks so cool.

[Adam Schaefer]

I just wanted to say that I'd.

[Sal Di Stefano]

Rather be where you're at, dude.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah, yeah. Trade places for sure. Sure.

[Gage]

Awesome. Okay guys, I'll. I'll just jump straight into my question. I guess I had a multi part question you guys can just answer kind of whatever parts you want to pick out of it based off of time. I know I'm a few minutes late, it's my bad. But little background about me. Got super into health and fitness after kind of my own health problems. Complications, multiple doctors visits, things like that. Unfortunately, never got specific answers from anybody in the past. Kind of took My health into my own hands and kind of changed how I was exercising, changed what I was eating, changed how I was living and so ended up starting to feel a lot better after some time. After listening to your guys podcast for the last couple years and listening to some other people's experiences and things, I feel like it was. Was probably a mold toxicity issue or like a mold issue because I started feeling better right after I moved out of the place that I was living before. I feel like that was kind of the timeline. I have a lot of background in sports, weight training. I did a little bout of running, ran a marathon. I'm one and done with that one. Did not, did not fully enjoy that process. I'm glad to say I've done it.

[Adam Schaefer]

Though.

[Gage]

And just trying to look for like balance with work, life stress and training. My main question is being that I have a new opportunity to do personal training at a gym that I'm working at here. I also teach group classes and I'm a health coach remotely online. I have two kind of side business ventures that I have also my feet in that are taking up a lot of my time. So my main question is, I know that you guys have some entrepreneur background. What's your advice on how to know when to kind of go all in on one thing or the other? I know that I'm spread too thin. I hear it all the time of like kind of pick one thing. If you, you know, do too many things, you're not going to progress very much in. In any of them. Basically that's. That's my first main question.

[Adam Schaefer]

Which one are you going to your head? Which one are you more passionate about or which one's got the best ROI.

[Gage]

Currently or like in the future? Potential question.

[Adam Schaefer]

No, not potential right now. Which one's got the best return on your investment right now? And which one are you more passionate about? And are they the same?

[Sal Di Stefano]

Same?

[Gage]

No, they're not the same. I would say that the coaching opportunity is. I'm way more passionate about. I enjoy doing that a lot more. I do feel like the other I. The other options potentially could have more roi, but currently don't. So.

[Sal Di Stefano]

Oh, how old are you? Do you have. And you have, do you have kids, wife, or are you just on Your own?

[Gage]

I'm 25, I'm on my own, so I don't have any of that overhead or anything like that, that.

[Sal Di Stefano]

Oh, dude, push the chips. Yeah, go. Yeah, bro. This is the time. Yeah, do the one you're most passionate. Go for it. You got lots of energy. You're young, you don't have kids or a wife to support. Pick the one you're passionate in and go for it.

[Adam Schaefer]

Y.

[Sal Di Stefano]

That's the one that will haunt you if you don't. I'm gonna tell you that right now.

[Justin Andrews]

That's it.

[Sal Di Stefano]

So go for it. Worst case scenario. And give yourself some time. By the way, when whenever I, we tell people like, you go all in on the one you're passionate on. Don't just do it for three months and be like, I did it, I'm done. No, no. Give yourself a year, year or I think a year minimum and say, okay, I'm going to give myself till this date and I'm going to go as hard as I can and I'm going to see if it can work. And usually what happens is you get your answer. And oftentimes the answer is I made the right decision.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah. Pick the thing that you see right in front of you that you would be willing to do for the next 10 years to get good at it and it wouldn't bother you.

[Justin Andrews]

You're like, it doesn't feel like work. You can just keep working on it continuously and it's okay because you enjoy it.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah, that's, that's the hack, bro. When you do something that you're passionate about and you're staying up at 11 midnight at night reading, you're. That's, you're not counting those hours, cuz you'd be doing it anyways. And you love it that you lean into that. That's, that's.

[Justin Andrews]

Otherwise you're looking at the clock.

[Adam Schaefer]

That's the biggest hack for really successful entrepreneurs is they've found something that they don't count the hours of all the time and effort they put into it. It's not an easier path. People think it's like, oh, it's all this flexibility and freedom bullshit. You're going to work more than anybody who does a 9 to 5 because.

[Sal Di Stefano]

Because.

[Adam Schaefer]

But you won't look at it like work because you love doing it. You're excited about it, you're passionate about it. So as soon as you got a break, you're actually kind of working because you're reading up or researching or educating yourself or watching others doing that craft or getting mentored like, and you love it because it's what you want to do.

[Sal Di Stefano]

The best quote, the best quote I ever heard on entrepreneurship is that an entrepreneur is somebody who's willing to work 80 hours a week to avoid working 40 hours a week.

[Justin Andrews]

Yep.

[Sal Di Stefano]

If that Makes. If that's like you, and I saw you laugh and kind of smirk a little bit when I said that, if that resonates, that's you.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah.

[Sal Di Stefano]

Then go for it. Because I tell you what, working 40 hours a week for me with something that I'm not passionate about feels like a million. Like. Like, oh, I can't stand this. But doing something that I'm. I'm passionate about, I'll do this all day long for free, and I love it. So it's totally different. Different.

[Gage]

No, that.

[Adam Schaefer]

That.

[Gage]

Thank you for that. I feel like that really resonated with me when you shared that also. Just knowing that it's something that I could put a lot of time into, and I don't feel like it's a lot of time passing doing it.

[Sal Di Stefano]

Yeah, go for it.

[Adam Schaefer]

That's the key, bro.

[Sal Di Stefano]

Are you in our course. Are you in any of our courses or anything for. For trainers?

[Gage]

I'm not currently, but I've been looking into them as you've kind of been sharing on the podcast.

[Adam Schaefer]

Did you listen.

[Gage]

Looking into them.

[Adam Schaefer]

Did you listen to the three. Three episodes that we just did for trainers? Trainers?

[Gage]

No, but I just saw that you dropped them. Yeah, like, last few days.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah, just a couple days ago. Yeah.

[Sal Di Stefano]

Go through those. Get in the free webinar where I do sales training, and we're doing. We're going to do a lot more content for trainers and coaches like you, so. And it'll help you. It'll help you a lot.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah, that's our big focus right now. Our big. And that's a big passion of ours. And guess what? It's not the great ROI for us right now, but it's a pat. It's a passion we all believe in. And so we're all in on that right now. Now. So it's same. Same concept. So go all in. If you're passionate about it, dude, this is the time to do it. Always make peace with the worst outcome. What is the absolutely worst thing that could happen? You know, you got to eat peanut butter jelly sandwiches for a while or downsize your apartment or get a roommate or whatever. Like, that's big deal.

[Sal Di Stefano]

You're 25. Oh, I'm 26 now. And I. I guess it didn't work.

[Adam Schaefer]

So.

[Sal Di Stefano]

What?

[Adam Schaefer]

Right.

[Justin Andrews]

Yep.

[Adam Schaefer]

Oh, that's.

[Gage]

That's super helpful.

[Adam Schaefer]

You got.

[Gage]

Thanks, guys.

[Adam Schaefer]

Do it.

[Sal Di Stefano]

Do it. When you hang up, go run towards it. Let's go.

[Colin]

Awesome.

[Gage]

I have one other question about training, if we have time.

[Sal Di Stefano]

Yeah, let's go.

[Gage]

Let's hear It, Yeah, so, so because I got this, this opportunity to start personal training, I kind of had to start with group classes to get my foot in door at the gym. So I had to get, you know, CrossFit L1 certified. And so I went through that whole process and started taking classes to learn how the they worked and started doing it on my own. So I wouldn't say I'm fully addicted, but you know, I'm enjoying the different style of training for myself just because it's very new, very novel for myself. I'm seeing a lot of gains in areas that I've never seen before because I've never really done Olympic lifting or gymnastics movements, things like that. So my question to you guys is like, how do I balance the training right now with, with kind of like the stress I try to like taper my training with. If I get a bad night of sleep, you know, listening to you guys, like, I'll, I'll bring back the volume or I'll bring back the intensity. Um, but my main question is like, what do you recommend I do to continue progressing? Because I know that I feel like I'm at an age where I can get away with a lot of bull crap programming and training right now. Like I'm still seeing a lot of progress, but I know that it's not structured in a good way day or it's not like the best way to do it because I do a couple metcons a week. I still do some hypertrophy, like lifting maybe once or twice a week. I'll do some strength, focus stuff like some endurance, like it's kind of all over the place.

[Sal Di Stefano]

Yeah, no, this is good because, because your age, because you're also a trainer.

[Justin Andrews]

You can get away with a lot right now.

[Sal Di Stefano]

So I think the most you'll get out of this is by having fun with it and treating it like a skill skill. So instead of thinking of gains and whatever, like, oh, I'm going to learn, you know, I'm going to learn how to do this, you know, use the rings really well or I'm going to continue to perfect my snatch. Just treat it like you're learning a skill and you're having fun. That's it. That'll be, that'll, that'll serve you best.

[Adam Schaefer]

Especially considering what your first question is all about and following your passion, your business to be a coach.

[Sal Di Stefano]

It'll make you a better coach.

[Adam Schaefer]

Yeah, go in. Don't go into this as like my gains or how I need to look. It's like I Want to learn about. I want to get so good at learning these techniques that I can teach it to others.

[Sal Di Stefano]

Yep.

[Adam Schaefer]

And let me tell you, that's a. That is a. That's a skill I didn't have. Like, I could not. If somebody came to me and wanted to learn how to do a snatch, I couldn't do it. I couldn't teach them how to do it. I didn't have that skill. You will have that skill, and that's very. Especially today with how popular CrossFit and those movements have become. That's a very valuable thing for you to just put and add another tool in your tool belt. So look at it like that. Don't think about gains as much as it is education.

[Sal Di Stefano]

And. And when you're going into one of these things, you're like, man, I'm too tired to have fun, then that means take the day off.

[Gage]

Okay. No, that's super helpful. Yeah. I feel like there is some movements where I'm, like, not actively, like, chasing a big PR or a goal. Like, I'll just do them just to get better. And so I feel like that kind of. Yeah, yeah, Just learn it, and then.

[Justin Andrews]

I can let them influence you on.

[Adam Schaefer]

But you're probably the. The biggest mistake someone young like you will make is. Is doing too much when you don't need to. If you're already doing three metcons a week, that's enough to build a great physique. So. So don't overdo it. You don't need to add in hypertrophy training and strength training on top of that. Those things already got it built into it. So I. I would be. I would caution you on adding stuff, and I would go like, man, if you. If you get three good workouts in a week with everything else you got going on. Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

Just get as educated as possible. That's your entire focus. Right.

[Sal Di Stefano]

So mod. The most important thing you can modify with what we're telling you is intensity. So you're like, oh, man, I had three hard workouts this week, but I want to go practice more. Go low intensity.

[Adam Schaefer]

Practice.

[Sal Di Stefano]

Practice. Yeah. Like, literally have fun. Think of it that way. Like, how can I have fun right now? And is this still fun for me? That's gonna. That's gonna give you the most returns for all the stuff that you just said.

[Gage]

Thank you. No, that's super helpful. I feel like I am having fun, so that's helpful to know that, like, okay, just go in, have fun. Keep going into it. Don't. Don't try to look at it for PRs or exactly. Go have fun. Have fun at the gym, the community. The competitions are fun for sure.

[Adam Schaefer]

So perfect. That's the right attitude.

[Sal Di Stefano]

That's great, dude. Yep.

[Gage]

Cool. That's it. That's all I had. Guys, thank you so much for your.

[Adam Schaefer]

We'll see you on the webinar, dude.

[Justin Andrews]

Right on.

[Sal Di Stefano]

Yeah. Good, good. I love, I love those questions. I love it. But yeah, I mean, when you're young like that, you don't have dependence because that will haunt you. Let me just paint the picture. 25 year old you. Oh my God. I love training people, but I got this job that kind of pays the bills. You know what? I'm going to do the quote unquote responsible thing then. You're 30, you got married, you got a baby on the way, you don't.

[Justin Andrews]

Have a mortgage or nothing, and you're.

[Sal Di Stefano]

Like, oh, this sucks. I hate this job. I wonder if I could have become a trainer. It's like, well now you probably could still, but it was way more on the line. It's way different versus back when you didn't have those things. So look, if you like the show, come find us on Instagram. Justin is at mindpumpjustin. I'm at Mind Pump distefano. Adam's at Mind Pump. Adam, thank you for listening to Mind Pump. If your goal is to to build.

[Justin Andrews]

And shape your body, dramatically improve your.

[Sal Di Stefano]

Health and energy and maximize your overall performance, check out our discounted RGB super [e-mail] the RGB Super Bundle includes maps, Anabolic maps, Performance and Maps, aesthetic. Nine months of phased expert exercise programming designed by Sal, Adam and Justin to systematically transform the way your body moves, looks, feels and performs. With detailed workout blueprints and over 200 videos, the RGB Super Bundle is like having Sal, Adam and Justin as your own personal trainers, but at a fraction of the price. The RGB Super Bundle has a full 30 day money back guarantee and you can get it now plus other valuable free [e-mail] if you enjoy this show, please share the love by leaving us a five star rating and review on itunes and by introducing Mind Pump to.

[Justin Andrews]

Your friends and family.

[Sal Di Stefano]

We thank you for your support and until next time, this is Mind Pump.