2639: The 5 Reasons Why People Can’t Stop Fasting & More (Listener Live Coaching)

Summary

Mind Pump: Raw Fitness Truth
Episode 2639: The 5 Reasons Why People Can’t Stop Fasting & More (Listener Live Coaching)
Release Date: July 12, 2025

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Introduction

In episode 2639 of Mind Pump: Raw Fitness Truth, hosts Sal DiStefano, Adam Schafer, and Justin Andrews delve deep into the pervasive trend of intermittent fasting. This episode not only unpacks the psychological and physiological reasons behind fasting's popularity but also features live coaching sessions where listeners seek personalized advice. Additionally, the hosts share insights on other health and fitness topics, making this episode a comprehensive resource for enthusiasts seeking scientific perspectives on current fitness trends.

The Five Reasons Why People Can't Stop Fasting

1. Simplicity in Dieting

[05:24] Sal DiStefano: "It's simple. The only rule is you can only eat between the hours of here and here. It doesn't get more simple than that."

• Discussion: The hosts highlight that one of the primary reasons people gravitate towards fasting is its apparent simplicity. Unlike diets that require tracking macronutrients or adhering to strict meal plans, fasting often involves restricting eating to specific time windows. This straightforward approach appeals to many, making it easier to adopt compared to more complex dietary regimens.

2. Psychological Relationship with Food

[06:33] Adam Schafer: "Nostalgia. People love foods not just for their taste but for the memories they evoke."

• Discussion: Fasting forces individuals to confront their relationship with food. For many, food is intertwined with emotional and cultural significance, such as comfort, celebration, and connection. By restricting eating times, fasting can help break unhealthy attachments or habitual eating patterns, leading to a more mindful approach to food consumption.

3. Caloric Deficit and Weight Loss

[13:08] Sal DiStefano: "People absolutely love it. If you have a three-hour eating window, you're probably going to eat less calories."

• Discussion: The primary mechanism through which fasting leads to weight loss is the creation of a caloric deficit. By limiting the time available to eat, individuals often consume fewer calories overall. However, the hosts clarify that the weight loss benefits are not unique to fasting; they stem from reduced calorie intake, similar to other dieting methods that create a caloric deficit.

4. Reduced Inflammation and Gut Health Benefits

[15:19] Sal DiStefano: "There are cases where long fasts have been shown to completely heal people's guts."

• Discussion: Fasting can offer physiological benefits beyond weight loss. By giving the digestive system extended breaks from constant food intake, fasting may reduce inflammation and allow the gut to repair itself. Sal shares his personal experience of improving gut health through intermittent fasting, emphasizing that while it may not be suitable for everyone, certain individuals can experience significant health improvements.

5. Catecholamine Spike and Its Addictive Nature

[19:27] Sal DiStefano: "The beauty of these chemicals is that you're pumping out catecholamines."

• Discussion: Fasting triggers the release of catecholamines—dopamine, norepinephrine, and epinephrine—which are associated with increased energy, alertness, and a sense of well-being. Initially, this chemical surge can create a rewarding feeling, making fasting psychologically addictive. However, chronic stimulation of catecholamines can lead to stress responses and potential hormonal imbalances, highlighting the need for balanced fasting practices.

Hosts' Personal Experiences and Reflections on Fasting

The hosts share their personal journeys with fasting, discussing how it has impacted their mental and physical well-being. Sal reveals his struggles with feeling "chained to eating" and how fasting helped him regain control over his eating habits. Adam emphasizes the challenges of maintaining high protein intake within restricted eating windows, especially for those focused on strength training and muscle building. Justin adds that fasting can alter personal relationships with both food and exercise, further complicating one's fitness journey.

Listener Live Coaching Segment

Caller: Brad from North Carolina – Rib Flare

[64:34] Sal DiStefano: "It is correctable and actually fixable."

• Question: Brad inquires about his and his son's lower ribs protruding more than typical, often referred to as rib flare.
• Advice: The hosts explain that while rib flare is primarily an aesthetic concern, strengthening supporting muscles like the intercostals and serratus can help improve posture and reduce the appearance. They also recommend core-strengthening exercises to enhance overall stability.

Caller: Rachel from Florida – Building Muscle and Diet Concerns

[69:38] Rachel: "I've stalled probably the last couple of years when it comes to building muscle."

• Question: Rachel, an experienced lifter and personal trainer, seeks advice on overcoming a muscle-building plateau and whether to focus more on diet or programming.
• Advice: Adam suggests that Rachel likely needs to increase her caloric intake to support muscle growth, recommending a gradual bump of 300-400 calories. Sal agrees, emphasizing the importance of not fearing calorie increases and focusing on gradual adjustments. They also discuss the benefits of switching up training programs to introduce variety and stimulate further gains.

Caller: Jim from Australia – Aesthetic Program Experience

[87:11] Jim: "Aesthetic pushed me way beyond what I thought it would be."

• Question: Jim shares his experience with the MAPS Aesthetic program and its impact on his strength and physique.
• Advice: The hosts commend Jim for his dedication and adaptability. They suggest incorporating focus sessions to target specific muscle groups and gradually increasing weights while maintaining proper form. Jim plans to reintroduce elements like squats and deadlifts with a focus on form, aiming for continued progress.

Additional Topics Discussed

Red Light Therapy and Skin Regeneration Protocol

[33:21] Sal DiStefano: "Use red light therapy, a high dose of vitamin C, and glutathione together for optimal skin regeneration."

• Discussion: Sal outlines a science-backed skin regeneration protocol utilizing Joovv red light therapy, high doses of vitamin C, and liposomal glutathione. He highlights the efficacy of these compounds in improving skin appearance within two weeks, emphasizing their antioxidant properties and accessibility without the need for prescriptions.

Parenting and Teenage Challenges

[42:20] Justin Andrews: "TikTok is creating unrealistic standards for teenage dating."

• Discussion: The hosts discuss the complexities of parenting teenagers, particularly in the context of modern social media influences. They emphasize the importance of building strong, respectful relationships with children, modeling healthy behavior, and navigating the pressures teens face regarding dating and social interactions.

Fun Segments and Anecdotes

Throughout the episode, the hosts engage in light-hearted banter and share amusing anecdotes, such as hidden Easter eggs in Pixar movies and bizarre accidents. These segments add a relatable and entertaining dimension to the discussion, showcasing the hosts' camaraderie and breadth of interests beyond strict fitness topics.

Conclusion

Episode 2639 of Mind Pump: Raw Fitness Truth offers a multifaceted exploration of intermittent fasting, blending scientific analysis with personal anecdotes and live coaching. The hosts critically examine the motivations behind fasting's popularity, its benefits, and potential pitfalls, providing listeners with a balanced perspective. Additionally, the live coaching segment addresses real-world fitness questions, offering tailored advice that underscores the podcast’s commitment to evidence-based solutions. Whether you're considering fasting, seeking to overcome a fitness plateau, or navigating the challenges of parenting teenagers, this episode delivers valuable insights grounded in the hosts' extensive experience and knowledge.

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Notable Quotes:

• Sal DiStefano [05:24]: "It's simple. The only rule is you can only eat between the hours of here and here. It doesn't get more simple than that."

• Adam Schafer [17:19]: "Most people are not health-focused; 90% are motivated by weight loss and calorie restriction."

• Sal DiStefano [19:27]: "The beauty of these chemicals is that you're pumping out catecholamines."

• Rachel [69:54]: "I'm biased towards nutrition because I have this weird fear, it's hard for me to do it on my own."

• Adam Schafer [74:54]: "If you were my client, I'd have you up to 3,000plus calories by now. Like you could."

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Resources Mentioned:

• Red Light Therapy Products: Joovv.com (Use code "mindpump" for $50 off)

• Pre-Alcohol Drink: ZBiotics.com (Use code "mindpump2.5" for discounts)

• Workout Programs: mapsfitnessproducts.com (Use code "7uly50" for 50% off)

• Kids Multivitamins: hyahealth.com (50% off first order)

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Connect with Mind Pump: Find Mind Pump and the hosts on Instagram: @mindpumpmedia, @mindpumpsal, @mindpumpadam, @mindpumpjustin, @mindpumpdoug
Visit mindpumppodcast.com for more information.

Transcript

[Sal DiStefano]

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[Adam Schafer]

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[Sal DiStefano]

If you want to pump your body and expand your mind, there's only one place to go. Mind Pump. Mind Pump.

[Adam Schafer]

With your hosts, Sal Destefano, Adam Schafer.

[Sal DiStefano]

And Justin Andrews, you just found the most downloaded fitness, health and entertainment podcast in podcasting history. That's right. This is Mind Pump, right? In today's episode we had live callers call in. We got to coach them on air, but this was after the intro. Today's Intro was about 61 minutes long. In the intro we talk about studies on fat loss and fitness and muscle gain. We talk about current events, family life, bringing up children. It's a good time by the way. You want to be on an episode like this one. Send us your question through [e-mail] now this episode is brought to you by some sponsors. The first one is Joovv. This is red light therapy. That actually works. This is the real red light therapy. Everybody else's knockoff. You get a little bit of the red light. You have to use it 10 times as much as to get the effects you get with one session with Joovv. Okay, Try it for yourself. See what I'm talking about? Go to Joovv.com, that's J-O-O-V V.com mindpump. Use the code mindpump. That'll get you $50 off. This episode is also brought to by ZBiotics. This is a pre alcohol drink that you take and it makes everything so much better. These are Genetically modified bacteria that break down acetaldehyde. That's the negative byproduct of alcohol. There is nothing else like it. Okay. This is a patented product. Try it for yourself. Take a Zebiotics, enjoy yourself with your friends and you'll see what I'm talking about. Go to zbiotics.com that's Z B I O T I C S.com mindpump2.5. Use the code mindpump2.5. Get yourself a huge discount. We also have a sale on some workout programs, Maps split in the Anabolic Metabolism bundle of programs. That's all 50% off. If you're interested, go to maps50fitnessproducts.com and then use the code 7uly50 for that discount. Here comes the show. Fasting. Why are people so obsessed with starving themselves? It's rigid, it's extreme, yet people say it melts fat, gives them energy, breaks them free from food. What is going on today? We're going to unpack the five reasons why people can't stop fasting. We're going to talk about what works, what doesn't work. Stay tuned. You're going to get surprised. Yeah, yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

Do we have any data on the popularity of that in just in the context of the last decade? Like, obviously it's been around forever, but I, you know, I remember when we first started kind of talking about it on the podcast and it, it seemed like it was just on fire. Then it felt like it kind of died off, but then it feels kind of like it's having a resurgence again. Is that, is that, am I, am I on to you? Are the trend?

[Sal DiStefano]

It's one of the most popular quote unquote diets still to this day.

[Justin Andrews]

Still.

[Sal DiStefano]

Yeah, it still is. Now the success rate of fasting in the data shows that it's about as successful as any other diet. Okay.

[Adam Schafer]

Really? It's not anymore? No, I would actually think, I would actually think it would be a little bit more.

[Sal DiStefano]

No, no. I mean, in comparison, because of your first point.

[Adam Schafer]

Your first point to me highlights why. So a big reason why so many people do it and then also why I would think you would have a little more success.

[Sal DiStefano]

No. And you know, okay, you guys know this, guys. It's typically not the diet that's the adherence. Yeah. And it's adherence, but it's also the individual and what's going on around the relationship to food. I mean, we coach people for a long time and, and there's things that you need to work on that are root issues that'll make whatever Diet you're on either far more successful or if you refuse to work on them or you don't, that'll make all of them as equally exaggerated, unsuccessful. And yes, there are, there are diets that are less successful than others in terms of adherence. When I'm talking about fast in comparison to other diets, I mean, in comparison to other diets that are ones that we would say, well, those are okay, because there's crazy stuff that's out there. Sure. I don't think any dietitian or anybody in the health space would say celery diet. Yeah, like, no, that's like the worst. Right. But. But yeah, the fail rate is about the same as other diets. But people love it. Here's the thing, people absolutely love it. Now, we've done a lot of episodes, a few episodes at least, on why it's not a great way to lose weight. But it's very similar to why we don't think, you know, just cutting your carbs is a great way to lose weight or why, you know, any type of, you know, quote unquote, diet is necessarily a great way to lose weight. But again, people love it. The people that do it or talk about it absolutely love it.

[Justin Andrews]

There's value, too. It's just the application of it.

[Sal DiStefano]

Yes.

[Justin Andrews]

And I think that's really why we always try to kind of highlight that.

[Sal DiStefano]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

What's the best application?

[Sal DiStefano]

It's also one of the oldest diets it's been around for. Fasting was a spiritual diet. It's been around for thousands of years. It's the original diet. We used to call it starving yourself in the 90s when people would say, oh, I skip way back in the day. Yeah, I skipped breakfast or I skipped, you know, two meals. And that's what we would say. But again, when you talk to people, here's why people like it so much. And the first reason is it's, it's, it's simple. Yep. People more simple than that. Simple. Now, here's the problem with simple is that diet is nothing. It's anything but simple. The food that you eat is so connected to so many aspects of your personality, your culture, your life, that to say that it's this one simple step is going to fix all that is naive. Food isn't just fuel. I know a lot of fitness influencers will, will convince you otherwise. It's not just fuel. It's also connection. It's also celebration. There's also an enjoyment that we get from it. That's a value. It can also Be healing. It can also be abused. That's obvious.

[Adam Schafer]

Nostalgia.

[Sal DiStefano]

Yeah, nostalgia. You know, there's foods that I love not because they're objectively delicious, but because I got memories connected to those foods. One of my favorite examples of that are those, I brought them up before on the show, those chicken and a biscuit crackers, which objectively is like, what am I eating? It's a cracker that tastes like chicken soup flavored chicken.

[Adam Schafer]

It's like a bouillon. A little off topic, but not totally. I had this kind of epiphany in relation to this of we were having roasted marshmallows.

[Sal DiStefano]

Yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

And I was realizing just how terrible they.

[Sal DiStefano]

Yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

I'm like, but yet I love, I love it. I'm like, what am I doing?

[Sal DiStefano]

You know?

[Adam Schafer]

But of course, it's the nostalgia. Sitting around with my son by the fire, put him on and light him up.

[Sal DiStefano]

And you're not gonna eat roasted marshmallows like by yourself watching tv.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah, yeah.

[Sal DiStefano]

You know, it's because you're around a fire.

[Adam Schafer]

But I mean, even like I, I, I just happened to have this. It was literally just happened this last week, this internal conversation of like, I, if you were to ask me before I was eating them in that moment, do you love doing roasted mar. Oh, yeah. I love that. I love that. But then as I'm like eating, I'm like, this really is not tastes good. I've convinced myself, in fact, I burned the marshmallow to get it.

[Sal DiStefano]

Because you like it better. Yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

Like it burnt.

[Sal DiStefano]

No, the chicken and biscuits. Because when I was sick and I'd be home from school, if I stayed at my grandma's house, she'd always have them. Yeah. And so it was always like this nostalgia of my grandma taking care of me and letting me watch whatever I want.

[Justin Andrews]

Triskets for me.

[Sal DiStefano]

Yeah. Triscuits are disgusting. Right? Horrible. Yeah. But my point with this is it's diet is complex nonetheless. People like simple. Don't eat carbs. Just eat this, don't eat that. You know, how about this? The only rule is you can only eat between the hours of here and here. It doesn't get more simple than that. It really does. Eat whatever you want. Just don't eat outside of these this time window.

[Adam Schafer]

Wouldn't you say that this is more of a marketing rule than anything else?

[Sal DiStefano]

Oh, yeah, it's human psychology.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah, you're right. Yeah.

[Sal DiStefano]

Marketing is human psychology.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah. This is really more of a marketing role, is like, you know, keep it simple. That a, you know, five year Old can understand it, and you're more likely to sell it when people adopt it. And so some complex diet that requires calculations or percentages.

[Sal DiStefano]

Oh, God, no one's gonna do that.

[Adam Schafer]

I'm like, that's just. That's too much. Oh, tell me. Just don't have that.

[Sal DiStefano]

Yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

You know. Oh, okay. I could do that. Which is why carnivore diet, why these, you know, no carb diets, is like, oh, I just eliminate one thing or I just don't eat, which is the simplest of all.

[Sal DiStefano]

You know, it's like, hey, eat whatever you want. Just eat between the hours of. You know, skip this one. Yeah. Super simple, super black and white. That makes it super appealing to human behavior. The second reason is it definitely can. And I say can, because there are cases where this becomes a problem, especially people with previous histories of eating disorder. So fasting, terrible, terrible idea for somebody who suffered from anorexia or bulimia or anything along those lines, because it would just still send them spiraling. But to people who feel chained to eating, like, what does this look like? All right, I'll give you an extreme example. This was me in an extreme example, growing up, starting to lift weights. I'm 14 years old. Like, I just want to get big. That's all I care about. This is still an issue that I have to struggle with. But when I was 14, it was like, it was full speed ahead. Like, this was like, this was my thing. And all I want to do is get big at all costs. And when I learned that eating food was important, then I was chained to it. And then when I learned that I had to eat every two hours, that's what the bodybuilders did. Yep. If I went to out, if I went more than two hours without eating, I could see with my eyes, obviously, imagine. But I could see my eyes. My muscles are getting smaller. Oh, my God. And it was a problem to the point where I would become irritable. Yeah. And I would think I was hangry or whatever.

[Justin Andrews]

And this is definitely the hangry people.

[Sal DiStefano]

Yes. Fasting for me, broke the chains. From that, I realized I didn't have to go. I didn't have to eat seven times a day. I mean, literally, guys, my personal training business, I was training ten people a day, and I was eating seven times a day. It was like, my one client would leave, I'd go in the back. I had a microwave on my studio, and I would eat it so fast. I actually mastered the art of eating fast because my next client was coming in and foam rolling and then I, you know, I train them or whatever. Fasting helped me break those chains. Now, to somebody who's not that extreme, a lot of people still feel chained to food. And what it feels like is like what you said, Justin. It's like, if I don't eat at lunch, I'm annoyed, I'm irritable. If I don't eat in the morning, I feel. And that's probably not true. What's probably true is that you anticipate eating. You're connected to food because you have to eat at this time. And then when you fast, you start to realize, like, oh, actually I'm not irritable. It's just the anticipation.

[Justin Andrews]

I think we were all like, culturally programmed that way. I mean, I felt that way. Like if, if I got to the point where I was hungry, I felt like that was a big problem, you.

[Sal DiStefano]

Know, like, what did you do?

[Justin Andrews]

You should ate, you know, like, and it was just all this hype around, like, you have to, you have to eat and you have to get ahead.

[Sal DiStefano]

You should never feel hungry.

[Justin Andrews]

Never feel hungry.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

And then there was the, you lose, you're going to lose muscle. And then so there's that paranoia on top, stacked on top of that. So, yeah, I remember, yeah, going through a 24 hour fast and it really did, like, put me in complete different perspective.

[Adam Schafer]

Well, especially in our profession, I think it's exacerbated.

[Sal DiStefano]

Right.

[Adam Schafer]

I think that we're, we're taught the importance of, I mean, and back then a lot of us, you know, believed or adopted the anabolic window and the, the benefits of that and just how important it was to hit those protein targets. And so, yeah, we became obsessed with that. I mean, I told you guys this when we, when we were early on in the podcast that the clients I loved using it best with were my competitors.

[Sal DiStefano]

Yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

Because they were like that they were the most disciplined around eating like that. They were the ones that never missed meals and could tell you, oh, I've gone years and not missed a meal. And it's like, oh, these are the perfect people. To implement something like this is to help that, that attachment that they have to, to food. And so I think it has value. But a lot of people that. Do you guys also think this? I feel like, doesn't it feel like more often than not? I know there's always exceptions to rule. Example, this would be like Michaela Peterson, who. Absolutely. Carnivore diet was what she should be on. It's been life changing for her. But for the most part. Doesn't it feel like most people adopt like the absolute worst diet for them?

[Sal DiStefano]

Yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

Like they're attract the, the wrong, the wrong people that choose to do the diet, whatever diet too. By, by the way, replace fasting with carnivore or whatever. That's like they, they tend to gravitate towards the thing that's probably attracted to.

[Justin Andrews]

The dysfunction instead of what's good for you.

[Adam Schafer]

Yes.

[Sal DiStefano]

It's like that person who keeps, it's getting abused. They keep getting in dysfunctional relationships. They don't fix their own insecurity.

[Adam Schafer]

I think it's the other person. It's the diet. Oh, I gotta try, try another diet. Try another. It's like, no, it's you.

[Sal DiStefano]

It's not the diet, dude.

[Adam Schafer]

You're the common denominator.

[Sal DiStefano]

It's not every guy, it's not every girl, it's you. I think the common denominator is, you know, 100%. I totally agree with that. Next. And this is what people will promote weight loss. Does it promote weight loss? Well, for a lot of people it does because it's a very fast and easy way of cutting calories.

[Justin Andrews]

Reduce calories.

[Sal DiStefano]

Yeah, like obvious. If I have a three hour eating window, I'm probably going to eat less calories. But I say probably because people have found ways to eat a lot in three hours. This can turn into this like kind of restrict binge type of thing. But for, for many people, especially in the beginning when they don't eat until, you know, 5:00am or when they don't eat after 10:00am or whatever, it just results in eating less calories. And so then they're losing weight and then they're like, oh, it must be the fasting that's causing the weight loss. Like no, it's the calorie deficit. And there are studies on this. Not that we needed the studies because we knew this, but there are very now good studies comparing, you know, fasting to calorie deficit. All things being equal, does fasting result in more fat loss? No, it doesn't, it doesn't, doesn't change anything.

[Adam Schafer]

I, I love how much we science the out of the window.

[Sal DiStefano]

Yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

Meaning and what I mean by that is like we have wrote and written books and we have convinced people of the, the crazy and timing. Yes. The wit, the, the, that when restrict this window for this time, it's beneficial for all these lists of things. Right. And we list and you're just, oh my God. There's something magical about the six or eight Hour window. So that when in reality the. The real most effective part of the windows that it's just really hard to eat over calories in such a small time frame. And so that's the real science. It's not. I mean, we, we sell it as the celtophagy and we sell it as all these things that are happening, you know, in your body physiologically that are so beneficial. But it's like, come on, you're splitting hairs. Yep. On those benefits when it comes to that with you. If you did nine hours or six hours or like, that's, it's almost irrelevant. But we've sold people so hard on the science behind that. When it's like, no, really what it is is that we've constrained your eating, eating time so small that it's like good luck trying to eat 4,000 calories.

[Sal DiStefano]

That's right, exactly. Now. Now the next two points. There's merit. Reduced inflammation for people with gut health issues. Certain types of gut health issues, by the way, within your eating window, you would still have to eat a particular way because you could totally flip this and just screw it all up. But giving your digestive system a break from working at all in many cases is good for gut health. So there are cases where there's so much gut inflammation, and again, it depends on the individual. Right. Because sometimes fasting can actually cause more stress to happen and stuff like that. But there are cases where it's like, yeah, dude, it's a good idea to not eat so frequently because you need to give your digestive system a break. You need to reduce inflammation, and that's what happens. It's like anything, like when the digestive system is working, there's going to be more inflammation in the digestive system. When you leave it alone, it has a chance to repair. In extreme cases, long fasts have been shown to completely heal people's guts. So you have cases in situations. I'm going to be very clear. You know, you would want to work with a functional medicine practitioner to see if this is appropriate for you. But there are cases where people will fast for 72 hours and their gut lining is almost back to normal. Now, this was me. This was me. I struggled, and I say struggled because I think I figured this out for the last year. I think I've actually fixed my gut health over the last year. But on and off, you know, probably for. Was it like maybe 13 years to at least 10 years. I struggle with gut health issues. Sometimes better, sometimes worse. My go to fix when everything else wasn't working was fast and when I would fast for 48 hours I'd come back and my gut would be much better. So there is a, an anti inflammatory benefit from giving your digestive system a break. And that's 100% true.

[Adam Schafer]

You know the truth about that though? That represents less than 10% of the people that are motivated to do it for those reasons.

[Sal DiStefano]

Most people are not health.

[Adam Schafer]

No. 90%. Cuz I, I would be pro that if I had a client that was, that was telling, telling me how much they're bad. They're like man, I just feel so good when I do that 24 hour fast like that. We're implementing it because of that reason, but that's rarely what the case is most of the time. You know this reminds me of too. Do you guys remember how fired up we used to get early on when we started the podcast of the, you know, influencer dorks that would do the, the, all the. They were viral, they were millions of followers and they were promoting fasting and it was like they would crush a whole pizza. The whole, the whole page. Remember that? You remember that guys we got into with one of those guys.

[Sal DiStefano]

One meal a day. Yeah. And I can eat whatever I want.

[Adam Schafer]

And he would be showing people just, just promoting bats.

[Sal DiStefano]

Oh, bad eating habits.

[Adam Schafer]

Terrible binge restrict. It was, I don't know, he's like 20 something years old, skinny.

[Sal DiStefano]

It was bulimia without the throwing up. It was, it was, it was totally binge restrict.

[Adam Schafer]

Just such an irresponsible thing to be teaching or telling people that you can, yeah, you can do it. Should you do it? Probably not. I think even if you saw results, it could lead to some really bad.

[Sal DiStefano]

I have seen just as many because earlier we said it can help people to break the chains from food. I have seen just as many people become chained to dysfunctional eating through fasting because it promoted this. People without this terrible dysfunction will start fasting and then what it starts to morph into is restrict, restrict, restrict. Oh my eating window binge. Yeah. And I saw this so many times that I was, I started becoming anti fast.

[Adam Schafer]

Well this goes to my point that I said earlier that I think that a majority of people are attracted to the wrong diet for them. And this gave the, you know, the girl who ate, you know, five servings of carrots all day long permission to do that. Yeah, like that she was doing something. Okay. Like oh, I could do this. Oh, I'm fasting.

[Sal DiStefano]

Oh yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

No, that's not healthy.

[Sal DiStefano]

No, not at all. And lastly again this is a true one. Not eating for a certain period of time, prolonged period of time, spikes. Catecholamines. All right, what are catecholamines? Dopamine, norepinephrine, epinephrine. These are chemicals that are released in fight or flight situations. They also feel good.

[Justin Andrews]

Feel good.

[Sal DiStefano]

They feel good. Like your dopamine, epinephrine, norepinephrine goes up, you're hyped, you have energy, you feel sharp. Now, the evolutionary argument for this is if you go without food for a long time, your body is trying to get you better at hunting because you suck right now. Yeah. You're not getting food, so go get it. Let's get you. Now, this can get addicting, this feeling, because here's what happens when you fast, especially if you do a long fast, is at first you're like, oh, I'm struggling. And then you're like, I'm hungry. And then you break through and suddenly like, oh, my. You'll see. People talk about this. Oh, my God, I feel amazing. I feel so sharp. What they're feeling is this cocktail of drugs that's getting released called catecholamines. Now, here's what happens. Here's the bad side of this. It's not necessarily bad to spike your catecholamines, but if you repeatedly do this over and over and over and over and over again, it starts to become too much of a stress response. You get less of this spike, and you actually can fall into HPA axis dysfunction as a result. As your receptors start to downregulate, you stop producing as much of those things, and then you suddenly. Now fasting, you feel like garbage as a result. And I've seen this, by the way. It's more. In my experience, this is more common with women where they'll do this, do this, do this, and suddenly their hair's falling out and they feel like garbage. Even though we're getting adequate nutrients, it's like, you know what's going on. But again, this is real. If you fast, you'll probably. I say probably because some people won't, but you'll probably get an energy boost. And then you'll say, how is this possible? I'm not eating food. It's the beauty of these chemicals that you're. That you're pumping out.

[Adam Schafer]

You know, I think the. The biggest bone I have to pick with fasting is in. Most people that listen to the podcast are strength training. You probably come here. You obviously have heard us promoting it for so long, and in that Context of lifting weights to build muscle, to speed your metabolism up to then maybe in turn lose body fat or be healthier in general. It is difficult. In my experience.

[Sal DiStefano]

It's already difficult.

[Adam Schafer]

It is really difficult. Not just personally, but all the people I've trained, really difficult to hit your protein targets, optimal protein targets in a 24 hour window.

[Sal DiStefano]

Yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

So restricting somebody to a smaller window and then also saying, imagine, like for.

[Sal DiStefano]

Me, I'd have to eat out a major meal. Yeah. 200 grams approaching. I'd have to eat in three hours. What am I gonna do?

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah, yeah. You know, and so, and you want, you know, you want to talk about slowing your results or your progress in pursuit of speeding your metabolism up and building muscle and building the physique you want. Well, I got a recipe for that. Don't hit your protein targets consistently. You know, and so I just think that it's terrible for that. Very few people I have met, even people that have had success with fasting, their success is just because they lost weight. Right. They reduced calories and the weight came down. So therefore they think it was a good strategy. But then they're in this awful plateau where they're not getting the body they want and they're not getting the body they want because they can't build any muscle. You can't build any muscle on that low of calories and that low of protein. And they can't do that because they've restricted themselves to a window. It's very difficult to hit 130, 170, 200 grams of protein consistently, day in, day out. Therefore, all the work you're doing in the strength training, the best maps program in the world, you're hamstrung it. Yeah. It isn't reaping the benefits that it should.

[Sal DiStefano]

100%. That's, that's one of my biggest qualms with it. You know, this, this brings me to the topic I really, I just gotta tell you guys, and I'm gonna say it on air because I'm gonna keep myself accountable. I don't want to do this series. I don't want to do this YouTube series. I do not want to do this where I get on there and publicly attack in a real way, tackle the dysfunction that I have around fitness. I don't want to do it. I'm wrestling with it. I don't want to do it. I'm trying to convince myself not to. I'm trying to. I'm coming up with ways to twist it so that it still becomes about me and Man, I was talking this morning, I went to. I did some mobility work. I'm trying to only lift a couple days a week is what I'm trying to do right now. And I've been trying that for a little while, but I went to UFC gym. I had a short period of time. I had to come in here early, meet with Doug, and so I hopped in there just to do some core and some mobility. And I ran into Johnny Sebastian, our good friend, pro bodybuilder. Love him. I've been. I've been. We've known him forever. He actually worked for me back in the. Way. Back in the day. Anyway, he's. He's going to compete again, and he's. He's talking about tackling the same issue that I have, right? With fitness. Yeah. He's recording a series right now, and him and I were talking about this, and he's prep. He's in prep right now. Yeah. And he's like, dude, I. How do I do this? He's like, do I tell people, like, everything I'm doing? I'm like, I don't know, man. And we're just going back and forth, and I'm like, how do I. Because I love it. So what am I supposed to do? Not do stuff that I love that doesn't seem right? Like, what does this look like? What does fitness look like? I'm talking personal. What does it look like for me to. Where it's not to glorify me, it's no longer an idol? Like, how do I do this in a way that I'm not serving this terrible idol? I don't know, man. And I don't want to do it. I really don't, because it's going to be super raw, and I'm going to be angry the whole time.

[Adam Schafer]

So I think, you know, a great thing to bring up post, talking about fasting, because I think the most valuable part of fasting for people is. Is to show them their relationship that they had with food and how unhealthy it was, and it breaks those chains. In the same token, that is what that's going to do, right? By ripping the band aid off, by forcing you to not do the thing that you love, that you say you love, will also start to break those chains of the relationship that you have with exercise. And admitting that it may not be the healthiest. And what's hard about that, which I understand is.

[Sal DiStefano]

Well, I know that, and I can admit it. But here's what's going to happen, is that's going. My workouts are going to get filmed.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah.

[Sal DiStefano]

Every time I'm working out, Dylan is going to be filming me, and I'm going to be talking about this. So there's no hiding.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah.

[Sal DiStefano]

Now my pride can get the better of me, and I know that. So that's gonna be a risk, too. Cause I'm gonna be like, what's gonna get the most attention? So I also need to steer clear from. Yeah. But it's gonna be real conversation around this, and it is easy. You guys know I'm a good sales guy. Okay. Yeah. I can sell myself really well. And I could easily be like, this.

[Justin Andrews]

Is more of, like, a documentary.

[Sal DiStefano]

I'm gonna be working out, and I'm gonna be focusing on, you know, things that like mobility and health and my workouts. And I'm gonna be quite honest if I'm probably going to be focused on building muscle, sometimes getting stronger, but I have to talk about it while it's happening.

[Adam Schafer]

And, bro, it's going to be so therapeutic.

[Justin Andrews]

Talk to those people that are like.

[Adam Schafer]

I. Yeah, I was the three of us, I was the first one to do this, and I didn't really overthink what it was going to look like. I didn't overthink, like, what would be the most viral. I just said, I'm going to go. I'm going to do this thing. I'm going to attach the mic to my bill and my hat, and I'm not even gonna talk to the camera. I'm like, I'm not even gonna try and sell anything or over explaining. I'm just gonna. I'm gonna work out. And as things come up in my mind, I'm just gonna vocalize it. And that's what.

[Sal DiStefano]

That's what I'm afraid.

[Adam Schafer]

Some people liked it, some people didn't. I really didn't care if you didn't like it. You know what I'm saying? There was a lot of critiques of people. I should have done that. I don't give a. That wasn't why, like. And that's how I think you should do it. Is that the same type of attitude of, like, you. You can even. And allow your freedom to go into the workout that, like, I might not even know what I'm going to do today.

[Sal DiStefano]

Yeah, like.

[Adam Schafer]

And I might change it and.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah, you submit it and address it. It's like people are wanting to just hang out. They want to observe, like, that inner dialogue. And if you could vocalize your inner dialogue, I think that would help a lot.

[Sal DiStefano]

I'm going to. Which is why I don't want to do it. Yeah. Because it's going to be the most real.

[Justin Andrews]

That's why it's interesting.

[Sal DiStefano]

Yeah, it's gonna be the most real thing I think I've ever done.

[Adam Schafer]

I think it's so interesting.

[Sal DiStefano]

It's gonna be real and there's. Look, you know what? Helping me do this is two things. One, I don't want to let you guys down. It's a very powerful motivator. Good. You guys know that.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah, we put that pressure in there.

[Sal DiStefano]

Yeah, I know. And I don't want to let you.

[Adam Schafer]

Guys down because the business could crash if you don't.

[Sal DiStefano]

That's. I could crash it with the series. You never know. No, that's, that's, that's a motivator. The other motivators, I, I, I, I'm getting encouraging messages from people who are saying, like, I'm looking forward to this. I have the same issue with that. You do? Awesome. You know, with fitness, it's all the fitness fanatics, right, that struggle with this. And we speak to this all the time. We have callers call in all the time that struggle with this. And one of the reasons why I can speak to them so well, I'm talking to myself. I'm like, I know what this should feel like. And I can give advice real good. I'm really good at giving other people advice, but now it's like, it's gonna be on me. So I, man, I am not looking forward to this at all. It's giving me anxiety.

[Adam Schafer]

I have to tell you, I'm so excited for you. I've enjoyed watching Justin's. I enjoyed doing the one I did, and I'm really excited to see yours. And I think what it is a little bit different for me because ironically, I'm actually not really that into fitness content. So the stuff I consume is more probably business cars, stuff like that I love. For example, my favorite business content to watch are when people make stuff. Hormozi has a series where he basically has a, a serial entrepreneur come on. And basically. And the part that I love the most is watching his brain work in real time.

[Justin Andrews]

Yes.

[Adam Schafer]

Not what he's solving. Yes.

[Justin Andrews]

In the realness of it.

[Adam Schafer]

Not like how cool the business was or how successful it was or wasn't. It's just watching someone who, I have respect his business acumen. I have respect for his business acumen. And then him, watch him problem solve in real time and just see how I think that's how people have a lot of respect for your. Your fitness, knowledge in your brain that I think they would love to see you handle any challenge. And just how does. When he. When he. When he's struggling, they want that, Which I also remember you got. And you guys reminded me of this when I was going through my series, and I kept getting hurt, and I was getting so discouraged and pissed off. And you're like, dude, people love that more. They love. Because it humanizes you. You. You still happens to you. And they want to see, okay, how does his brain work when that happens and how does he communicate? And so you just need to go into completely, like a blank slate like that and a lot. And I think it will turn out much better than you think if you. Other than trying.

[Sal DiStefano]

There's only one thing. There's only one direction I can do and do this right. And it can't be for. It can't be for anybody, but. But God has. Has to do it for him. Because if I do it for the audience, it's really easy for me to turn into teacher sales guy. If I do it for me, we know what that looks like. If I do it for you guys, then it'll be for the business. So I got to do it for something that keeps me straight and narrow, you know, on the straight and narrow. I'll tell you who I feel bad for this whole. I feel bad for Dylan because I feel like he's gonna get. He's gonna get it because I'm gonna get mad. I probably. Dylan's in the back looking. Yeah, I'm. There's probably times I'm gonna get mad at you for filming me, but that's. I'm gonna do it. I'm gonna blend in Dylan. I'm gonna tell him to turn off the camera because I'm gonna be too real. But. But, you know, I'm talking about it now because I got the.

[Justin Andrews]

You know, wear one of those ghillie suits. You see those?

[Sal DiStefano]

I got the conviction. You know what I mean? I was like. I was. This morning. I went for. I went for a little walk.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah.

[Sal DiStefano]

After I finished with Doug, and I got the conviction. I'm like, you need to keep talking about this because you're going to figure out a way to twist this. I'm like, okay, I'll bring it up on the show. Oh, I don't like it.

[Adam Schafer]

It's good. I think you're actually gonna find it very therapeutic. I think you. I think you're gonna get a lot of value from it. Talking to you after the recordings and.

[Sal DiStefano]

And bringing, I'm going to try to bring people in.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah.

[Sal DiStefano]

To keep it, to keep it real too. So I'm gonna, I talked to Johnny this morning. I'd love for him to be on it as well because I know he gets it.

[Adam Schafer]

Oh yeah, it's great.

[Sal DiStefano]

I'm gonna try having, you know, my friend Chuck on here as part of it too because he works out but he's, you know, he's, he's a, he's.

[Adam Schafer]

My, he's a, I mean anything and everything that you're using as a current resource.

[Sal DiStefano]

That's why I'm reading all the people.

[Adam Schafer]

That can help me. Yeah. If, if you, if you have, like, of course, if you're having these normal conversations or things that you're doing that's helping you through it. Like, like, please God, share it. Yeah, share it. So we all get that insight and I know, I'm excited, I'm excited for it. I think, I think it'll be good. You know, it's funny like most stuff that we've done in this business, it's like we don't tend to do anything that's like really great viral. It's like you know, saying it's like we just haven't.

[Sal DiStefano]

And by the way, stupid quote.

[Adam Schafer]

It's nothing for the business.

[Justin Andrews]

Not like massively ego based, it's, but.

[Adam Schafer]

I mean for the, for the trainer who listens and follows. I just, I hope that we can continue to be a light or a positive like that. You don't have to go viral. You don't have to be the most famous person on the Internet. Be yourself, be real, be authentic, be vulnerable and try and provide as much value and serve others and you will reap the benefits you will if you come from that place. And, and you know what? It may only be three people at the beginning and it may only be five people. But over time you'll impact those three or five people so much more than getting millions of people paying attention to you no matter what you think or believe or other people tell you and that when it comes to trying to build a business that has purpose and meaning and a why behind it and value and is going to be successful long term. That is the formula. It really is. And it's been distorted by all the fame and attention that you see people getting on the Internet. Totally.

[Sal DiStefano]

You know, all right, I'm gonna change directions. I'm uncomfortable. So. Hey, I got, listen, I, I, I have put together the most base backed by data the most powerful skin regeneration protocol you could possibly use. And I say natural because it doesn't require peptides are amazing. Doesn't require peptides. Everybody doesn't have access to peptides. Right. You would have to get a prescription or go gray market if you want to be risky or whatever. But you can use some compounds that you could buy over the counter. So here's, here's what it looks like. Use red light therapy, which is the most powerful thing you could do. The data on red light therapy is incredible when it comes to improving the appearance of your skin. Okay. So like juve our partners joovv, they're the best that we found. If you use that regularly by two or three sessions you start to see a difference in the way that your face looks and all that stuff. Yeah, but use high dose of vitamin C and use glutathione. Both of those together with the red light. Oh my. I'm looking at the data with vitamin C, glutathione.

[Justin Andrews]

This is the antioxidant.

[Sal DiStefano]

Yeah, dude. Oh man. And by the way, glutathione, vitamin C and glutathione have been used by these like high end and they'll use like an iv. You don't need an iv. You could get, you could take vitamin C orally and you could get liposomal glutathione. Your body will absorb it as well. Just you have to take it for a few days for it to build up both of those, their effects on the skin, they're documented. So you do that. Use a red light therapy like what we're talking about here. For anybody who's interested in looking younger. What we're talking about is like two weeks. Like you do this for two weeks, you'll notice a dramatic difference. 14 days.

[Adam Schafer]

What, what's a, what's considered a high dose of vitamin C?

[Sal DiStefano]

Yeah, a thousand milligrams, which by the.

[Adam Schafer]

Is that of each glutathione. And no.

[Sal DiStefano]

Ah, you know, I'm, I slips my mind. Doug, look up a dose of, of liposomal glutathione. I don't know why it slips me, but yeah, a thousand milligrams, one to three thousand milligrams of vitamin C, which you know you can get like a vitamin C packet and many of them contain that much.

[Adam Schafer]

Are the chewables okay?

[Sal DiStefano]

Fine.

[Adam Schafer]

Okay.

[Sal DiStefano]

Yeah. Chewables that taste like orange. The orange one? Yeah. You can do orange slices? Yeah. So vitamin C, glutathione, liposomal glutathione.

[Adam Schafer]

And I want to try that I've never tried to like I use glutathione religiously for when I'm got a cold and sick and I'm trying to get better and stuff like that. And same thing with vitamin C, but I've never tried to do it when I feel good. And then all with using the juv light.

[Sal DiStefano]

Yep, yep. Yeah. One pack is 450 milligrams. Yeah, that'll work. So you probably do two of those if you want to go super high. But, but the, the. A lot of skin creams have now vitamin C and glutathione in them.

[Adam Schafer]

Do you guys see. I mean, I know you go to some, some public and you're starting to now the amount of gyms now that have red light therapy.

[Sal DiStefano]

So it's crazy. Oh yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

It's become like a.

[Sal DiStefano]

Because it works.

[Justin Andrews]

It's an option.

[Sal DiStefano]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

It's great to see it.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah. Almost every. Any of the ones that are like, I mean, what do you.

[Sal DiStefano]

What would like Equinox?

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah, all higher end ones. I mean they for sure have not your. You know, maybe planet Fitness Fitness 19 with your 19 membership type deal. But if you're. You have a nicer spa club type like all of them I've seen have now red light therapy areas, which is really cool. Interesting to see you know how much that's changed.

[Sal DiStefano]

Doug, I want you to pull up a picture. I gotta show you guys something that I learned just today. I just figured this out today. I'm gonna send you a picture, Doug, of one of the characters from Toy Story. And I don't, I'm not gonna. You'll.

[Justin Andrews]

The old Toy Story.

[Adam Schafer]

This is what Justin brought up.

[Justin Andrews]

No, no, no, he's okay.

[Sal DiStefano]

No, no, I'm gonna text that. Doug, I'm gonna text it to you right now, bro.

[Justin Andrews]

The new villain.

[Adam Schafer]

Post it.

[Sal DiStefano]

No, no, this, you'll recognize it. I don't. It doesn't have a name. It's not a main character. But as soon as he pulls it up, this just. Okay, so pull up the picture, Doug. And is it the spork? No. So you guys remember the scene where that, that that annoying ass neighbor kid.

[Adam Schafer]

Finds and he blows and tears her limbs off?

[Sal DiStefano]

Yeah. And then, and then he leaves the room and all of his like, like.

[Adam Schafer]

Like monstrosity come to life and stuff.

[Sal DiStefano]

Yeah. His little Frankenstein toys come out. Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

Which actor? That kind of look like him. Dress like him for Halloween.

[Sal DiStefano]

Okay, watch, look at this picture because I just learned this today. So how old is toys? Remember this one?

[Justin Andrews]

Oh yeah.

[Sal DiStefano]

Remember she walks out. Yep. Okay, so for people who aren't watching, it's the. There's like three toys that come out and there's one that has like, looks like Barbie legs and it looks like a fishing pole.

[Adam Schafer]

Yes.

[Sal DiStefano]

And it's coming out and the kids freaking out. Right. The toys are freaking out. Okay. Do you know what that is?

[Adam Schafer]

Other than Barbie legs in a fishing pole?

[Sal DiStefano]

Yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

What it's supposed to be or.

[Sal DiStefano]

Yeah. Do you know it's an inside joke with the Pixar animators.

[Adam Schafer]

No way.

[Sal DiStefano]

That's a hooker.

[Adam Schafer]

Oh my God. Oh my God. Like a dad joke.

[Sal DiStefano]

That's a hooker.

[Adam Schafer]

Of course it is.

[Sal DiStefano]

I just. I just learned this today on social media.

[Adam Schafer]

I don't know why. I just. I don't. I get a kick out of trying to. Disney does this all the time too.

[Sal DiStefano]

Yeah. Because you know, their artists are like, it's for them. Right. They're like, watch this. Nobody got it. I didn't get it.

[Adam Schafer]

Of course.

[Sal DiStefano]

I mean, it's nobody.

[Adam Schafer]

Nobody is.

[Justin Andrews]

It's a little bit of a stretch.

[Sal DiStefano]

But I was dying when I saw that.

[Adam Schafer]

That's clever.

[Sal DiStefano]

Yeah. I wonder how many of those are out there.

[Adam Schafer]

That's why my. What I was just saying right now, I was like, I bet there's so many like hidden gems. Like, you know, sure. This is the neat part of the Internet now. Like, we're like, that's something. You would never figure that out or find that out because even the person gets lost. Yeah. It gets lost. And you were in translation or whatever. But for the. The Internet is, you know, has capable capabilities of something going viral overnight by one person. And so now we all know Easter eggs.

[Sal DiStefano]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

That's the funny thing. You haven't heard much about that. Like, they used to be huge, like in the 90s and all movies.

[Sal DiStefano]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

You go back through and you'd find all these little Easter eggs. Or like the way they shot it. Like the. For instance, the. The cheesecake would be facing up. Or then the next shot is facing down. And then like. And so you see all these inconsistencies. You know, dorks on the Internet would just go crazy.

[Sal DiStefano]

And then there's the easy one. Just watching the animated Lilo and Stitch. Cuz the. The liveaction one just came out, which is actually really funny. It's really good. But we were watching the animated one and there's a scene, it's real quick, where she's in her bedroom and in the back there's a poster of another Disney cartoon. So they do that, you know, that kind of stuff all the time. Super funny. So I got a story to bring up with for you. You'll like this one, Justin, of this really crazy thing that happened, this accident that happened to this guy. And it's pretty wild. So this dude fell. I'm going to read you the article in New Zealand. This guy, what was he doing? He fell between the cab of his truck and the trailer behind it, and he landed on an air hose, the nozzle. So he sat on it. Okay. Now, it didn't go up his anus. Because at first I read this, I'm like, oh, it's one of those.

[Justin Andrews]

Like the first thing I thought.

[Sal DiStefano]

Yeah. Where he's like. Where. You know, he goes to the. He goes to the hospital. He's like, oh, I don't know what happened. Yeah. Actually, I trained this one doctor and he told me a story of how a guy had to get a cucumber removed from his.

[Justin Andrews]

He blamed it on the.

[Sal DiStefano]

He said, hey. He said he slipped in the shower.

[Adam Schafer]

Stop it.

[Sal DiStefano]

I'm like, you're making a salad when I take a shower, bro.

[Adam Schafer]

Stop it.

[Sal DiStefano]

Yeah. But anyway, it's all shaved. It didn't go into his. Into his anus. It entered into his glute, and it was an air hose. So it continued to pump air at the rate of 100 pounds per square inch into his glute.

[Adam Schafer]

What?

[Sal DiStefano]

Yes, dude. You know what it did? It literally blew air into his body and it separated the fat from his muscle. And he felt it come all the way up until his friends heard him screaming and they were able to shut it off.

[Justin Andrews]

Oh, my God.

[Sal DiStefano]

Yeah, dude. It literally inflated. It literally inflated half his body.

[Adam Schafer]

This is so weird. So he landed on, obviously something sharp enough to penetrate into his butt.

[Sal DiStefano]

Yep.

[Adam Schafer]

And then. And the thing was already going.

[Sal DiStefano]

Yeah. And it's high pressure. It's one of those high pressure hoses.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah.

[Sal DiStefano]

And it's literally pumping air into his body and they're like, miraculously. Didn't cause anything to explode out.

[Adam Schafer]

Oh, my God.

[Sal DiStefano]

But it literally filled him.

[Justin Andrews]

Half of cartoons where they just turned a bowl.

[Sal DiStefano]

Yeah. No, it caused a lot of damage because it separated the fat from his muscle as the air went in. He.

[Adam Schafer]

He didn't have the capability to pull it out.

[Sal DiStefano]

He. He was. I don't know if he was screaming. He couldn't move. It was too much. And so they had to go off. And his buddies went and shut it off. I know, bro. I read the article and I was like, oh, my God. What A terrible accident.

[Adam Schafer]

That is crazy.

[Sal DiStefano]

Yeah, Terrible accident.

[Adam Schafer]

I want to hear who had the. Who had the teen dating thing?

[Sal DiStefano]

That was just the.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah, I was, you know, because I. I wanted to bring that up because this is kind of the phase. I mean, I know I listen to you guys a lot with your young kids.

[Adam Schafer]

Get bored.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah. Because I'm like, I'm not there.

[Adam Schafer]

No.

[Justin Andrews]

But there's just new challenges and. And I'm interested, especially with my oldest and. And he's like.

[Sal DiStefano]

He's 15 or 14.

[Justin Andrews]

He's 15.

[Adam Schafer]

I love, by the way, just so you guys know. I love hearing, even though I'm not in that phase, because it gives me a lot to think about. Well, before I get there, you know, you guys could it up. So I don't, you know, learn from my mistakes.

[Sal DiStefano]

Yes, please.

[Adam Schafer]

So I love hearing.

[Sal DiStefano]

I got a lot of those.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah.

[Sal DiStefano]

And it's.

[Justin Andrews]

It's tricky because, too, like, I want him to experience dating and I want him to kind of figure all these things out. But it's interesting to kind of watch and observe and not intervene and not like, over coach or like, sure, you know, get too involved. And so I've been kind of doing a little bit more of observing and then maybe when he asks, I'll kind of give him some tips and cues.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

Like the last. And he's had maybe, I want to say three or four that girls that he was trying to date since he kind of shifted to this new school and he's been kind of meeting new people and stuff. And the last one, like, he was. Was his friend. And so, you know, they kind of were friends for a while and had a good relationship on that level, but then decided that they should try to be boyfriend, girlfriend, and went through that whole thing. And then he found out his. So this girl started getting pressure from her friends. And this was about the one month mark. And now I didn't. I wasn't aware of this. And I don't know if you guys have heard of this. This is like a new thing. But, like, so TikTok is really, like, invading a lot of the culture in terms of the overall zeitgeist of like, how you do things. Like, so now they're creating like these standards of, Of. Of, you know, after one month, he should be talking to you this much per day.

[Sal DiStefano]

They.

[Justin Andrews]

He should be taking you, you know, to these kinds of plays. He should be committed, you know, on this type of a level. And there's all these weird, like, rules.

[Sal DiStefano]

And.

[Justin Andrews]

And so this poor girl is Getting like pressure from her friends and then conveying that to him. Yeah, he's like, look like I'm full time student. Also, like, he's working at the. Becoming better at gymnastics. And so he's, he trains like four or five times a week. And so, you know, he's busy. He's like, I'm busy, I want to hang out. But also, you know, like, I'm not going to stop doing this like in. So there was just no compromise there. And so that just dissipated. And I was proud of him for, for, you know, having that standard withholding that. I just thought that was kind of crazy. Like the pressure on the 15 year old level that.

[Sal DiStefano]

Yeah, because teens need way more pressure. Yeah, I know. When it comes to dating, crazy.

[Adam Schafer]

Interesting. I didn't even know that was a thing.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah.

[Sal DiStefano]

You know, I've been getting into a lot of the data around, you know, relationships outside of marriage. And the data is the opposite of what these kids are being taught. It's the exact opposite, bro. Like casual sex causes. Nobody's happier from it. Nobody. Girls especially are not happier from it, but they are encouraged. They're encouraged at this.

[Adam Schafer]

Did you guys hear? Did you guys, Any of you guys? I forgot this was right before vacation and I never shared this on the podcast. Oh my God. You have to listen to the feminist debate. I saw that on this day.

[Sal DiStefano]

That's what I'm referring to.

[Adam Schafer]

Did you watch the whole thing?

[Sal DiStefano]

I watched like half of it.

[Adam Schafer]

Oh, I watched the whole thing so good until 2 in the morning. Katrina was like, she's like, oh my God. She wakes up and she like, you still. I was like, yeah, I got sucked in. It was such a good, great dialogue. I mean, three, three brilliant women all consider themselves feminist from different perspectives and talking about the whole journey of feminism, all the plus and minuses and debating that amongst each other. They all spoke to each other well and respected there. Very good, good, healthy debates on there. And to your point that you're making right now, this was one of the things that was in a little bit in contention that it was really, I mean, I, I can't reckon. This is a great listen for everybody. It was on Diary of the CEO, it was Erica Comasar. And I forget the other two, two girls because we had Erica. So I know her, but whoa, what a good conversation.

[Sal DiStefano]

Yes, really, really highly recommended.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah, highly, highly recommended. Very, very, very intelligent, brilliant women breaking down and debating this. And I just love how well they all communicate.

[Sal DiStefano]

I like what Jordan Peterson says around that. It's like when you don't take another person seriously in a relationship, dating or whatever, you are simultaneously also not taking yourself. Oh yeah. You know, and so yeah, because the culture says like, you got to date a lot, you got to test drive each other, then you got to live together, you got to find out if you're compatible sexually. And the culture says that. And it teaches you all that. That. And the data doesn't match that. It just doesn't. The data shows that the most satisfied relationships, including sexually, are older couples who've been together for a level forever who have had very few partners. The, the best ones reporting, of course, this is general information. Right. There's always cases outside of this were the ones without. They were the only partners that they ever had. So. And, and I wish that was taught more, not like in a shameful way because as a teenager you got all these hormones and you know, I know how hard that is, but I wish it was taught like, well, here's what this, well, this is what actually the data shows.

[Justin Andrews]

That's what's tricky because yeah, I know all that is. And that's the optimal ideal and that's what, you know, you, you want to have those kind of like standards and parameters of like, hey, you don't have to, you know, go the way of the world. You don't have to do the what's expected. But, but at the same time, like they have to come to those conclusions themselves and, and you have to be able to model that. But two, it's like it's difficult. It, it's difficult because just like everything else, like having to kind of turn them loose and then.

[Sal DiStefano]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

And then like when do you like allow them to interact or where do you put like boundaries and parameters on? And it's like late at night, it's like you find environments where like this is going to be a problem. And that's where I like sort of start drawing lines of like environments, parties.

[Sal DiStefano]

My wife is reading this book. I'm so sorry, I don't know the title of it. It was so good and it talked about the different stages of parenting and the teenage years is a coaching stage. So when they're real young, it's like, don't do that, do this.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah.

[Sal DiStefano]

So much more strict. Yeah. When they're teenagers, hopefully by then you've built such a relationship to where your coach.

[Justin Andrews]

It's all conversation.

[Adam Schafer]

So I was comment.

[Sal DiStefano]

Otherwise you get too overbearing. Oh yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

Happening. I guess I'm throwing out these, all the hypotheticals that go through my yeah, yeah, of course.

[Adam Schafer]

You know, I was. I was going to comment on the. The parenting dilemma that you have that we all have. Right. As. As a parent of, like, you know, where do I insert myself? Where. Where do I tell them or coach or whatever the case may be. And it reminds me of. Of what we. What I teach a lot with sales, the difference between a good closer and a great closer. And when you are trying to get your kid to do something, you're. You're closing them on your ideas. Right. You're selling them on why they should or shouldn't do whatever the thing is. And sure, as parents, we can go in there and tell them what to do or point out what they did wrong, but you're far more effective if you can pull them in and get them to ask you questions around that. And so I think about that a lot of. You know, obviously, I'm more at the phase of telling because of my kids so young.

[Sal DiStefano]

Yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

But I do know that there will become a transition where it's like, my goal then becomes, can I get him to ask me? Because if I can just get him to ask me, then I can share with him my own experience, what the studies say, all the things. And I think that's just far more effective to persuading them to make the right decision.

[Sal DiStefano]

This book was really good because it says that these different stages, your kid's gonna move through them whether you like it or not.

[Adam Schafer]

Right, right, right.

[Sal DiStefano]

So they're gonna be in the coaching phase. And if you haven't moved out of the, like, I'm gonna tell you what to do phase, it's gonna lose them. I mean, the key is this. My wife says this all the time. Time. That the most important thing with your kids is your relationship with them. It's more important than anything else because you're. You're gonna know your kids way longer as an adult than you will as a child.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah.

[Sal DiStefano]

So if you build a good relationship with them, that's gonna last forever. Yeah. If they come out of your house feeling like, I'm free, I'm out of this tyranny or worse, nobody loved me. Yeah, you've lost. You've lost.

[Adam Schafer]

So along those lines, I learned something else here. I learned something that I was doing wrong with my parenting, that I. I was. I love when my paradigm gets shattered on something, and it. Well, I have a habit of when, you know, Max gets frustrated or he's trying to tell me something he wants, you know, and he's starting to whine or. Or get, you know, frustrated with that is I. I say I'd give him the prompt. Use your words. Use your words.

[Sal DiStefano]

Right.

[Adam Schafer]

Use your words. And I'm trying. I thought what I was doing was, you know, trying to help him communicate and find the right words. And I thought I was doing the right thing. And I follow this page. That does really cool stuff. Basically, the neuropsychology of raising children and to your point about their stages in the early stages is telling them later on becomes coaching. And I'm obviously still in the telling him stage. And what I'm doing by telling him, use your words, is I'm actually training his brain to actually go, oh, I whine first. Then my dad prompts me this.

[Sal DiStefano]

Relying on your prompt.

[Adam Schafer]

Yes. So he's relying on me to do that, when in actuality, what I should be doing is actually giving him the words.

[Sal DiStefano]

You model it.

[Adam Schafer]

Yes.

[Sal DiStefano]

It's called modeling.

[Adam Schafer]

Yes. So he has a. He's. He's frustrated. He's trying to communicate something like that. And instead of me trying to encourage him to use his words, I give him the words.

[Sal DiStefano]

Yep.

[Adam Schafer]

You know yet, Daddy, please. You know, daddy, please, can I do that? Like, and tell him, literally give him the words. And then we cut out the whining phase. Because part of the whining, that's just a natural reaction of him trying to find those words and trying to do that and me prompting again, like, use your words. And he gave other examples of what some. Because not everybody says, use your words. I know that's the one I use, which is why it hit home for me. But what you should do in those situations, and you literally just repeat the statement you want.

[Sal DiStefano]

It works so good.

[Adam Schafer]

It does.

[Sal DiStefano]

My wife does this so well. So, like, an example would be like, my kid would be like, like, oh, I want another lollipop. And then what you do is you. You instead of telling them, you model it so, papa, can I please have another lollipop? And then you give it to them.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah. Or.

[Sal DiStefano]

Or you answer the question. And they just start to. And then what they do is they repeat it.

[Adam Schafer]

Yes.

[Sal DiStefano]

It's weird. They feel just all of a sudden.

[Adam Schafer]

Say it, and then they skip the whining piece. And so great. Great hack.

[Sal DiStefano]

Isn't that cool?

[Adam Schafer]

I love. I mean, my favorite stuff to read is neuropsychology, and I'm fascinated with children's neuroscience right now. And I think that's just. And I've loved, as I've read and come across some of the stuff as I. Watching my Apply it. And then seeing it unfold is really cool. It's really cool to see that we do have a lot. I know genetics play a big role, and I know every kid is different and all those things, but I mean, we influence a lot. I don't know what the breakdown is, nature versus nurture, but I definitely. I believe that a little bit. Yeah, I believe we have a lot. I have. I believe a lot. And I think a lot of us as parents like to tell ourselves that, oh, well, they're just that or. Oh, it's just this way when it's like. I mean, they're trying to figure it all out. They're just. They're just these little sponges running around. And yes, some of them tend to react certain ways faster or need more of this or less of that. But all in all, you are shaping that.

[Sal DiStefano]

You know, it's crazy about this too. Again, going back to the data with this, you know, two things are important for a child, especially when they're young, but as they get older, is. Is love and structure. And if you take one of those out, the results are worse. So it's just love. It's worse. You know what the worst is? Just structure. No, love.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah.

[Sal DiStefano]

That produces really bad result if you grow up in a house where there's no love and it's all discipline.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah.

[Sal DiStefano]

Oh, that's actually one of the.

[Adam Schafer]

Well, this is where. I think this is where that saying comes from. Love conquers all. I mean, it's such a. Like now. I mean, you know, bless my wife's heart. I mean, this is where I've learned so much from her. Like, she comes from that place. Really. Well, like, like that's what we do first. Like, we come from love. Love, love, love first, and then all the other.

[Sal DiStefano]

You want to hear another crazy study? This is related to religion, but I think it applies. The, the, the. The kids that are most likely to follow in the faith of their children, what do their parents do? They've got studies on this. You know what it is? Parents who, who apologize and repent. When you, when you're a parent, you mess up and you go to your kid and you say, hey, look, that's a great. I got really mad. I'm sorry.

[Justin Andrews]

That's what you do.

[Sal DiStefano]

Well, because then they can accept a repentant God dude conversation.

[Justin Andrews]

You maintain that kind of relatability and like, accessibility, ability. Otherwise you're not accessible. And that's how it was for me growing up.

[Adam Schafer]

It's tar.

[Justin Andrews]

It's hard when it's always being told to you. And. And you don't really have that kind of invitation, you know, because if you. If you. If you are, like, admitting, like, my faults and here's. Here's how I could have handled it better.

[Sal DiStefano]

You gain respect. You don't.

[Justin Andrews]

Respect. Yeah, yeah. They want to come to you and explain more.

[Adam Schafer]

That's. That reminds me. So I don't know if I shared that. The John Deloney interview that he had with the girl that I know we've talked about many times. She has that great TED Talk. Her big viral TED Talk is the one you're communicating right now, which is.

[Sal DiStefano]

Oh, Dr. Becky.

[Adam Schafer]

Yes. Yeah, yeah. John Deloney's interview with her was phenomenal. But her big TED Talk is. It's one of the most powerful things that we can do.

[Sal DiStefano]

It's crazy if you think about it, because you're not perfect. Like, I don't think anybody thinks that. Well, if you do, then you're a narcissist. But nobody's perfect. Your kid knows you're not perfect. Everybody knows this. I can look back on my parents really smart. So. So why don't you show them?

[Adam Schafer]

It's so humility. It is so it doesn't reduce your authority. So powerful. It is something. I mean, I watched the TED Talk a long, long time ago, and it's something that we've modeled in our house. And you. I watch Max do it. Like, he. He does it. He makes mistakes. And he.

[Sal DiStefano]

You know what? He probably also does. He. Probably all. Because I see this with my two little ones. If my younger one, like, hits my older one or vice versa, and they're super mad, and then the other one apologizes, they accept it right away. Right away. Because usually that doesn't happen. Little kids, like, I don't care if you're sorry, you hurt me right away, my son will say, it's okay. Thank you. And then they're over it.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah.

[Sal DiStefano]

And why did they learn that? Because mom and dad apologize all the time for when we mess up and we mess up.

[Adam Schafer]

Dude. I have. Speaking of our kids and stuff like that. So this is my first one. I'm sure you guys. I wonder if you guys remember your first. So my son is learning and knows how to play a game that took me back to my childhood that was absolutely one of my favorite games I ever played. And he now knows play. So what a cool game. Guess who.

[Sal DiStefano]

Oh, yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

I love guess. Really?

[Sal DiStefano]

You just start playing that?

[Adam Schafer]

Oh, that's our number one. Yeah, well, he's. I Mean, he's, he's good enough that he can beat me. Like, this is the first. Like, he's, he's never been out. He like. I introduced that game probably two years ago and it was like, it was. We weren't playing the game. Let's be honest. We were looking at characters and it was. We weren't playing the game. We were playing the game now, like where we. Right now before he goes to bed. Now we play two or three games before bed, everything. And he beat me three out of three games. So I absolutely love that he's able to beat me. And I haven't had that yet. We have not been able to play something that he is there cognitively enough that he could actually beat me at something. And so, you know, watching him do that and then that I had forgot that was a game that I loved playing as a kid. I was obsessed with that game. And so seeing him playing it and doing it and then doing it with him is like such a blast to do that. And they have. So if you don't know this, like the Guess who did, you know, collaborations with everything you could think of.

[Sal DiStefano]

Oh, so there's more.

[Adam Schafer]

Oh, bro.

[Sal DiStefano]

Because I haven't used the same one.

[Adam Schafer]

Oh, bro. Were you. Wait, so I. I just bought for his birthday is coming up. We already have Guess who Mario. So it's all the Mario characters I gotta get. I just bought Guess who Star wars, because that's our other thing we're into. So like, so it makes it even more fun because he's obsessed with the characters from Mario and so, you know, it's done. Yeah, yeah, it's fun to, to watch him do that.

[Sal DiStefano]

All right, I gotta talk to you guys about some testimonials about Zebotics. They. The testimonials that come in from our, our listeners who use Ebotics is hilarious. Yeah, yeah, I won't. I haven't read those in a while. I won't drink ever again without Zbotics. That's what I keep saying. I will never drink again without Z. Which takes me to this. I don't know why zbotics hasn't done this. Why aren't they going to bars?

[Adam Schafer]

They are. They're in some.

[Sal DiStefano]

Are they?

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah, yeah, I actually saw.

[Sal DiStefano]

Cuz that's money.

[Adam Schafer]

So I don't know if you saw this in our forum.

[Justin Andrews]

I would have been handing them out.

[Adam Schafer]

Somebody. Somebody in our forum just tried it recently for the first time and they were like, oh my God. And then of course, underneath it were all the Other people that were like, I, yeah, me too. It's like, it's like everyone started going on and then, and then somebody made that comment of like, oh man, I wish they were the bars. And then people start posting like, oh, no, they're in this one and they're in this.

[Sal DiStefano]

They're money for the bar.

[Adam Schafer]

Not in a lot, but I know they're in a couple places.

[Sal DiStefano]

Buy it and then you drink and then you feel better. So you're probably going to enjoy yourself.

[Adam Schafer]

You would think from a bar it would be, it's a, it would be a strategy because it doesn't, it doesn't make you drink any less feel better than. For them. It's in their best interest to do that. But I don't know, I don't know why that hasn't been like a massive campaign to try and get in there. I don't know what the conflict maybe is. Why?

[Sal DiStefano]

Probably just time and energy. Because they're so focused on product development and the science.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah. I think like, you have to really, like, get Mars.

[Adam Schafer]

My theory, okay. Just my business brain says it's coming from a place of scarcity and just like some marketing people that we know and stuff like that, they look at something like that and they go like, that's $13. They didn't spend on a $13 drink. And so it's taking the bar. Yes.

[Sal DiStefano]

Oh, that's not gonna do. That's. Yeah, I guess you're right. You're probably right.

[Adam Schafer]

That's exactly.

[Sal DiStefano]

Why would anybody spend $13 on this? And then they're not gonna buy him another drink? I, I see.

[Adam Schafer]

So. And that, you know. Oh, the average person only has $26 in their pocket. There's a good chance they would buy two drinks for 13. But now they have to buy a zebiotic and then a drink. That's less money we make because we.

[Sal DiStefano]

The bar is gonna make more money.

[Adam Schafer]

That's what I, I mean, yeah, I agree too. But that's, but people operate from that logic a lot, you know, and marketing people.

[Sal DiStefano]

I think you could sell it at a bar. Hey, take this. That's your pre alcohol drink. Would you like a pre alcohol drink?

[Adam Schafer]

I mean, that's you selling it. I think it would if you, I think if they sell it individually, I think it's itself.

[Sal DiStefano]

Justin's right, though. It's gorilla market. He worked in a bar and that's what it is.

[Adam Schafer]

Right.

[Sal DiStefano]

You want to get stuff in the bars, you got to go to each one. Get in there.

[Adam Schafer]

Well, yeah, you Know all the bars do that. What are those things? What are those girls called? They're like, they. They do that.

[Justin Andrews]

Waitresses.

[Adam Schafer]

No, no, no, no, no, no. Every bar you've ever been to or club, there's always.

[Sal DiStefano]

Oh, that like, works for one of the companies.

[Adam Schafer]

There's always like, you know, like Smirnoff. Yeah. There's two hot girls and they're passing out shots of it. And like, that's, that's. And they.

[Sal DiStefano]

They're promoting it.

[Adam Schafer]

Yes, they're promoters, but those.

[Justin Andrews]

They also use cocktail waitresses to do that.

[Sal DiStefano]

Yeah, so. So promoters. Yeah, I guess the promoters.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah, the actual. It's normally people outside of the bar.

[Justin Andrews]

I told you back in the day, like, even Starbucks.

[Adam Schafer]

Yes. Promo girls. Thank you. Okay. Yeah, yeah, that's a good thing. Sure.

[Justin Andrews]

I don't know the title.

[Adam Schafer]

It was before your time. I'm old school. Yeah.

[Sal DiStefano]

Yeah. You're supposed to be our referee. Yeah. Come on, guys.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah, Well, I mean, yeah, they would literally come in and give us free products. And so as you. As you get free product, then they kind of have a trial run. We had this with Bailey's and we had this with. Even Starbucks was doing a run where they had, like, their liqueur they just came up with, and they wanted to test it out. And it's like. So you give these little shots of it and we would make drinks and they teach us kind of how to make drinks with it. So there was a little bit of like, they'd come in and kind of from, like teach you all of, like, you know, what it all entails and like, how to make them and all this stuff.

[Sal DiStefano]

And then.

[Justin Andrews]

Then come back, you know, a month later and see how it. It went, like how the customers liked it, all this stuff. And then we would decide whether or not we'd carry it if it was popular enough.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

And so that was kind of like the process.

[Adam Schafer]

I mean, I also think part of the problem is that, you know, ZBiotics is probably afraid there's.

[Sal DiStefano]

They were.

[Justin Andrews]

It's a lot of free product.

[Adam Schafer]

They're a startup company, and so that's a lot of money. But.

[Justin Andrews]

But they don't give a lot of free product.

[Adam Schafer]

But I tell you what, if I.

[Sal DiStefano]

Think you're gonna get customers like that.

[Adam Schafer]

Once you try, what I would do is I would just chalk it up. We're go going to lose $100,000 on product. But whatever that number of ZBiotics is, that. And it's like for the next three months or whatever, even a month we're going to go every Friday, Saturday night. You know how bars, they intentionally line people up to make it look.

[Sal DiStefano]

Just hand them out in the line.

[Adam Schafer]

Literally just hand them all out to everybody. Like, drink this before you drink.

[Sal DiStefano]

Why? He's the business guy.

[Adam Schafer]

And then, and then you literally just chalk it up. That that was a hundred thousand dollar investment. We gave it all away over the course of however long to. And we got a marketing campaign and then let's just see what happens. And I bet you to your guys's point that like you do it with there's because it. I don't know what the percentage of people because we have some people that are like, oh, I didn't really notice the difference. But then you have people that are like, oh my God.

[Sal DiStefano]

So it's vast majority.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah. Nobody ever says anything negative. It's always like, I didn't really notice the difference or it's oh my God. And I would say most people go, oh my God.

[Sal DiStefano]

Oh, I hate it.

[Justin Andrews]

Massive St. Patrick's Day.

[Sal DiStefano]

Yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

Event. Like do it on a holiday when, you know, everybody's getting as many bars I possibly could.

[Justin Andrews]

And like it almost like. Yeah. Because then it would be memorable because most people get way too out of hand on like certain holidays like that. And it's like, you know, if you can, you can provide that ahead of time. It'd be like they would remember that for sure.

[Sal DiStefano]

Most children's multivitamins are just candy and they don't have the right nutrients or enough of the nutrients to make a difference for your kids. Look, if you want to give your kids candy, that's up to you. But if you want to give your kids a multivitamin because you want them to be healthy, you don't want them to have any nutrient deficiencies which are so common nowadays in children use. Chaya. These are multivitamins that are not full of sugar and crap, but they have the nutrients that your kids need. This is the only multivitamin for kids that we promote here on Mind Pump. Try them out. Get 50% off. Your first order, go to hyahealth.com that's H I yahealth.com mindpump again. That gets you 50 off. Back to the show. Our first caller is Brad from North Carolina. What's up, Brad?

[Jim]

Hey, what's going on, guys?

[Sal DiStefano]

How can we help you? Hey, thanks for having me back on. Quick question for you today. My ribs, lower ribs have kind of always stuck out more than I think most people's and I always just kind of Chalked it up to genetics, as my dad has. It looks like my son, his does that as well.

[Justin Andrews]

And the leaner I've gotten over the.

[Sal DiStefano]

Years, it's become more noticeable.

[Justin Andrews]

And lately I've heard people refer to it as rib flare and maybe that.

[Sal DiStefano]

It is correctable and actually fixable. So.

[Justin Andrews]

Just curious.

[Sal DiStefano]

No, yeah, it's not really. You can't do much for it, but you can strengthen the muscles that support the rib cage, like the intercostals, the serratus. Strengthen your core, typically, I mean, unless it's really bad, it doesn't produce a functional issue. It's just an aesthetic thing. Now, it can get really, really bad. But that. That's. I believe it's called, what's pectus convertum, when it can be really. Where the rib cage actually caves in at the top as well and causes rib flare. And that's a whole different thing. But there's not much you could do at your age to change the shape of your rib cage with. With exercise or anything. That's pretty much that.

[Adam Schafer]

I felt like mine got a lot better as I got older, and I just developed my core. Like, it was. I had this. My. My left side, just my. You would see my left rib, bottom rib poking out when I got lean. It was like that since I was a kid. But over years of, like, really just working on posture and core and building the core area, I felt like really did that. So it's helped. Like, it's. I can. I forever can tell, like, if I. If I feel like my. My abdominal area, I can feel my rib cage on my left side. Feels like it's just pokes out a little more on that one side. And it used to be really obvious when I was a kid. It's not so much that as I've gotten older, and I just think that's because I've built a lot of muscle around it, that it doesn't show as much. And I think that's probably the best advice. And I mean, it's not causing any problems, Right. You don't have pain from it or discomfort or anything like that. It's just. It's more aesthetic, right?

[Sal DiStefano]

Yeah, for the most part. I used to surf a lot, and that was always pretty, pretty sore afterwards. Just from laying on your board all day. Yeah. Because you're. Because you're pressing on it. Yeah. I mean, if you look at the rib cage, right. So this, you know, starts at the spine, comes around, attaches there at the sternum. In between the ribs is connective tissue and muscle. And so to an extent, you can strengthen that. And, you know, of course, work on posture and stuff like that, and that can help a little bit change the shape, but it's not this radical change. Now, if you're a child, you can definitely have influence over the development of your rib cage because the. Everything's still growing, still malleable. Everything's still quite malleable, but as an adult, not really. Not a lot. But I would say, like, things. Like, things that.

[Justin Andrews]

That wouldn't hurt to work on it.

[Sal DiStefano]

No, like working on thoracic mobility. You know, working on rotation, strengthening the core, you know, dumbbell pullovers with deep breath in.

[Justin Andrews]

Intrinsically bracing.

[Sal DiStefano]

Yeah. That kind of stuff can make a difference in terms of stability. Gotcha.

[Justin Andrews]

Anything specific on building maybe up the.

[Sal DiStefano]

Obliques kind of to hide it a little bit, or. Rotational exercises are great, man. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Anything that has resistance with rotation is going to be great for developing them. And then suitcase carries will also help strengthen the lateral stability and help build that out.

[Justin Andrews]

So, like, building presses, too.

[Sal DiStefano]

Yeah. Do you have our program, Old time strength?

[Justin Andrews]

That'd be a great program.

[Adam Schafer]

No, I don't.

[Sal DiStefano]

Yeah. Oh, that'll build up your.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah, that's a great one.

[Sal DiStefano]

Let's send that to you. Cool.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah, that'd be great.

[Sal DiStefano]

I just finished aesthetics or. Excuse me, anabolic. Yeah. So old hamstring is very different.

[Adam Schafer]

Great one to follow up, though.

[Sal DiStefano]

This is how it'll address a lot.

[Justin Andrews]

Of those needs, though.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

Especially obliques and ql and all that.

[Sal DiStefano]

Yeah. Sweet. I appreciate it, guys. You got it. All right. Thank you. Thanks, Joe.

[Adam Schafer]

Back in the day, I had this really bad.

[Sal DiStefano]

As a kid.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah. I mean, even as a.

[Justin Andrews]

Really protruding out.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I still. I can still feel it to this day.

[Sal DiStefano]

Yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

It's like. But I have as. As I worked on posture, and I built a lot of muscle around it. You don't. You guys don't notice. I do still. I can still feel it.

[Sal DiStefano]

I know. So we call you Ribby.

[Adam Schafer]

When I. When I was. I mean, when I was young, it was like. It was actually a big insecurity of mine. That's why I was, like, right away. I get it. Because it would bother me when I was lean and I'd be on the beach and stuff. You just see that left side? You see that bottom of my rib just poking out? Didn't bother me other than the look of it. You know what I'm saying? That's what.

[Sal DiStefano]

Yeah. Back in the day, they would sell the dumbbell pullover as a rib expanding exercise to give you a big rib cage because they, for some reason, they prized the big rib cage to make you look bigger. And so that's how they sold pullovers. That's how Arnold sold it. That's how all the bodybuilders, the 60s and the 50s and 40s, why they did them. And there may be some truth to that because you can get so tight with the intercostals that your rib cage doesn't move and flex very well when you breathe in or do anything else. But it's really just about working on mobility and how much that'll actually change the shape. I don't think it's a ton. Our next caller is Rachel from Florida. Hi, Rachel.

[Rachel]

So, long time no see. My husband and I made the pilgrimage out to visit you guys back in 2022 when you hosted the live event at your studios. We were some of the VIPs. So it's been a long time. But it was great meeting you guys then and great to talk to you again.

[Sal DiStefano]

Thank you, Rachel.

[Rachel]

Yeah, so I will jump in. Well, first of all, thank you for everything that you do. You guys are the best, but I think you already know that. So I'm going to dive right in. And I was rereading my question and I thought it kind of didn't make a lot of sense, so I'm just going to kind of condense it down. I am what I would consider a pretty experienced lifter. I've been lifting for 10 years. I've run all the MAPS programs, literally every single one except for PED and I think maps, Anabolic Advanced. So I've done it all. I try to change it up, you know, do more of what you're not doing. And I feel like I've stalled probably the last couple of years when it comes to building muscle. And I know that something that just happens as you lift longer and longer, it's harder and harder to add muscle. And I get that. But I'm just wondering, I guess, if it really comes down to in the end, more programming or more diet when it kind of gets to be that level where you've been lifting for a long time, you're mixing it up, but you're just kind of on repeat a little bit if that makes sense. And I just don't know how to move the needle or what would move the needle more. Doing more of kind of a bulk and focusing more on diet or focusing on programming or both. I just want your opinion.

[Adam Schafer]

Well, you, because you already Do a really good job on the programming. That's probably not where it's at. And I'm looking at. Because you gave us more information about where your calories are at, my thing would be you probably need to push the bulk a little harder and that would be where it's at. And get comfortable with that. That's, that's, that's what happens to a lot of my experienced female clients that are in the kind of a similar boat as you are, is that can I, you know, push myself to a calorie intake that I've never done really consistently for long enough to break through that? I don't like the way I'm looking because I'm getting bigger or bulkier and then not reversing out. I would, I would think that that's where the answer lies for you. Now, granted, I think you're in incredible shape, but if you were saying, hey, I really want to build more, then I think that's where the answer lies, is more in the nutrition and pushing the calories, but simultaneously moving the program. So if you, if you do tend to lean more to. Are you more like of a MAPS aesthetic or a MAPS anabolic girl? Well, whichever one you are, I'm gonna maybe steer you into a program that's different, quite a bit different than that, like maybe old timey or strong, and then really push the calories and push them for a while.

[Sal DiStefano]

Yeah. And here's Adam's on point 100%, because as I'm reading your question that you wrote in, your diet's dialed your average 1800-2000 calories a day. You're 20% body fat. You have a bit of a fear of gaining body fat. So it depends on the person, but in your case, it's diet. Now, if you really want to see some gains, if you want to see some gains, someone who's experienced like you, what I would do is I would have you do maps, Anabolic advance that have you bump your calories by about 3 to 400 calories.

[Rachel]

Okay, so really, so you would go to like 2500, do you think? 2424.

[Adam Schafer]

At least that. I, I think at least that I'm looking at your. I mean, you're in good shape. You've been training for a long time. I, I mean, if we, if you were my client, I, I'd have you up to 3,000plus calories by now. Like you could. Yeah. Unless you're sedentary and I don't know, unless you're somebody who just doesn't move all day long. But you don't look like somebody who doesn't. He doesn't move all day long.

[Rachel]

No, I'm actually a personal trainer and so I move a ton and I think that might sometimes be 100. What I don't take into account 100.

[Adam Schafer]

If you're a, you're training clients and you're moving around that much. Plus you train the way you train. That's low. Those are low calories. It's not unhealthy. It's good. Like, obviously you've maintained a great healthy physique, but if we want to put on some muscle, I got to get you up.

[Sal DiStefano]

Yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

I bet you could support 3,000 calories.

[Sal DiStefano]

Yeah, well, you're 20 body fat. How tall and how much, how taller and how much. How much you weigh? If you don't want me asking, I'm five.

[Rachel]

Yeah, no, I'm five two and I weigh, I weigh about 130 consistently.

[Sal DiStefano]

Yeah. I mean, just out of sensitivity to your fear of gaining body fat, I mean, you could, you could start with 400 calorie bump and then again halfway through, bump it again. And I think you're just going to see gains. I think you're just going to see strength and muscle. I think Maps Anabolic advanced a great program to follow while doing that. And I think you're going to blow yourself away.

[Rachel]

And I'm curious too, I guess another slight fear that I have and I've read a lot on, I'm part of the forum and I read all the time on that. And I am 43 years old, so I don't have any real symptoms of perimenopause or. Dear God, there's so much out there when the hormones start to change. And I get a little bit fearful that if I were to bulk and add some body fat, which I completely understand is just a part of bulking, like you're never going to get away with not adding a little bit. I guess I would be fearful that it would be harder to get rid of that body fat once you wanted to kind of do a cut and reveal that muscle. Just simply the fact that I am a little bit older right now, I don't have a problem with that. But I obviously am kind of under eating.

[Sal DiStefano]

So. Two things. Two things. Too low of calories is much more likely to trigger menopause than too high of calories in an active person who strength trains. Okay. So if you want to trigger hormone changes that are more perimenopausal what you do is you overtrain and you undereat, and that'll stop your period. That'll cause lots of different things to happen. So that's number one. Number two, if you bump your calories, 400 calories, you're not going to gain all this crazy body fat and then be like, oh, my God, what did I do? That's not going to happen. Yeah, yeah. You're gonna have plenty of time to assess what's going on, and I'm gonna tell you what's gonna happen. You're just gonna get stronger. You're just gonna get stronger and you build a muscle. That's right. And you're gonna gain some muscle. Awesome.

[Rachel]

Okay. Yeah. I think that was my primary and I kind of knew the answer. Again, most people already know when they fall in, but I just wanted to. One other question too. I guess with the fear of doing all. Again, I'm a coach. I get the benefit of hiring someone to kind of work you through the uncomfortable parts. Would you recommend hiring something like hiring a nutrition coach to get me to that level? Because I have this weird fear and it's hard for me to do it on my own.

[Adam Schafer]

I would love for one of our trainers to take you through this, if you're open to that. I would love for them because I honestly, that is the only thing. Like, if you were my client, there's. I have no question. I bet you have great form. You understand extra. Like, the one thing will be the psychological part, and it would be me just talking to you every week or every other week going, you're doing great, Rachel. And you go in like, I don't know, Adam, I feel this way. And I'll be like, no, you're doing great. Like just that person as a second pair of eyes, letting you know that you're doing great. Because otherwise we, we. We mind ourselves. We're all guilty of this. And so I think there's a lot of value in hiring the coach just literally for that more than anything else, just to be a second pair of eyes. I mean, I did it when I was competing. I didn't need a coach to tell me what to do. As more. It was more like, like, I just need a second pair of eyes. It lets me know, like, no, no, no, no, you're doing fine, you're good. And I tell you what, it's. It's worth it. So, yeah, I'd love for you to let one of our coaches that take you through that process.

[Rachel]

Okay, perfect. So, yeah, Mind pump coaches. I'M not exactly sure how to get in touch with you all, but I'm.

[Adam Schafer]

Sure we'll reach out to you. Don't even worry about it.

[Sal DiStefano]

You'll hear from someone today.

[Rachel]

Perfect.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah, we'll send the numbers.

[Rachel]

Okay. Yeah, then I think that. And I guess one final thing. If I have you guys on the phone, I'm just kind of curious, too. My husband and I were debating a little bit. Power Lift is by far my favorite program. I have always loved, loved just building strength and really kind of working through that and getting, you know, setting new PRs, and that's always my favorite thing. What do you think about that in terms of just raw muscle building? My husband was saying, you know, more of a hypertrophy, like maps. Anabolic Advanced would be better for just strict muscle building. What do you think about that? Is that.

[Desi]

I don't know.

[Sal DiStefano]

We're splitting hair.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah, we are splitting. Those are two great. Those are two great programs to put.

[Sal DiStefano]

On if you're like. If you just. All we, all you ever do is power lift. Lift and moving to, you know, a different rep. Range, bodybuilding style. Yeah, but I like Anabolic advance for you because you haven't done it yet. Yeah, you said that was one of the programs you haven't done.

[Rachel]

That's literally the only one we own that I've never done.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah.

[Sal DiStefano]

And so do that with a surplus and you're gonna see some.

[Adam Schafer]

I. I love that too, because especially. Yeah. One you've done. The other one. 2. This is also where Sal introduces training to failure in there, too. So there's like, there's that ability, so it's very different. Advanced advance is very unique. So I think there's a lot of value, you training that one. I love that idea.

[Rachel]

Okay.

[Adam Schafer]

Both just so for the, for the discussion with husband. Like, those are both great programs for that goal, though.

[Sal DiStefano]

Yep.

[Rachel]

Okay. Perfect. Yeah. So it's more diet than it is programming, and that's kind of what I thought.

[Adam Schafer]

For sure. For sure. We got you, though.

[Sal DiStefano]

We'll.

[Adam Schafer]

We'll have someone call you today.

[Rachel]

Okay, awesome. Thanks, guys.

[Sal DiStefano]

Thank you. All right.

[Adam Schafer]

For sure.

[Sal DiStefano]

Easy.

[Adam Schafer]

For sure. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Sal DiStefano]

She's got that much muscle, that strong, that lean, 18 to 200,000 trainer, probably.

[Adam Schafer]

Taking 15,000 steps a day.

[Sal DiStefano]

Yeah, yeah. And her body is just. She's maintaining is what she's doing. She's. Her body's been able to run off of what she's eating, but if you want to add more lean tissue, you got to provide your body with the Resources to do so. Otherwise it can be very, very difficult, which is okay if you don't mind maintaining.

[Adam Schafer]

So this was okay. These are almost. She's. She said five two, right?

[Sal DiStefano]

Yeah. 530 pounds.

[Adam Schafer]

This is Melissa Wolf's numbers. Literally like 135, two this many calories. When we started, we got all the way up to 3,200 calories. She hit stage in like, like almost single digit body fat at 2400 calories. I was on stage, 2400 calories. So I took her from 18 to 2000 kind of maintenance. She was always a fit girl. So it's not like I radically changed her body fat percentage and all that, but it was literally this was the getting her all the way up to over 3, 000 calories bringing her back down. She hit stage in peak week at 2400 calories.

[Sal DiStefano]

Our next caller is Desi from Utah. Hi, Desi.

[Adam Schafer]

Hey, Desi.

[Sal DiStefano]

Hello.

[Desi]

Hello.

[Sal DiStefano]

How can we help you?

[Desi]

So nervous. Holy cow. Okay. I am 44 years old. I've kept active my whole life, counted calories on and off. I've known I need to lift weights for years, especially as I age, but just could never make myself do it. I found your podcast the end of last year and finally, thanks to you guys, have started lifting weights. I've been doing maps 15 since January. I love the strength, I love the muscle that I'm gaining at the same time. Also thanks to you guys, I started increasing my calories to see how high I could get. And I got up to 2150 without gaining weight, but decided to cut because that just felt like so much food and I wanted to see what a cut could do. Right before the cut, I was able to do an incline dumbbell press at 30 pounds, which I started at 15, so that felt awesome. But then my next two sets were at 25, which was fine. But then I was in my cut and I couldn't even like do two presses at 30 pounds, so I didn't know if that was normal in a deficit. And like, how do you decide how much weight to lift? You just maintain. I think I was just used to like increasing my weight the whole time I was doing it. And then my next question was just, could I do maps 15 for the rest of my life and be okay or do I need to switch things up? Because I love the program, love that I can fit it in my life, but I don't know if that would not be the best.

[Sal DiStefano]

Great question. First off, it is normal to notice a decline in strength when you reduce your energy intake, however, your calories didn't get very high and then you cut them down. I'm assuming around 1500 is probably where you went, which is really low.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah.

[Sal DiStefano]

Okay, that's really low. So how tall are you and how much do you weigh, if you don't mind me asking?

[Desi]

I'm five seven and I'm like 135.

[Sal DiStefano]

Yeah. Really? That's really low. So you're gonna see substantial strength loss going that low with your calories. Someone like you, strength training over time, I mean, we're gonna, Your, your cut would be around 2,000 calories, not your bulk. Okay. But it's a slow process. Don't. You don't need to force it. You need to, you know, you don't need to like slam yourself with food. You just slowly allow the muscle building and metabolism boost to work and continue to pursue strength little by little over time. And what this looks like is slowly you can increase your calories, then you can stay at the same calories for a while, then you can increase and you just take your time doing this. As far as your question around Maps 15 is concerned, it's a very well balanced program, so you could do it indefinitely. However, you're probably better off switching at some point just for some variety and for something different. And I think if you like that kind of programming, the, you know, 15 minute a day type of deal, then I think Maps 15 performance would be a wonderful program to toggle back and forth.

[Desi]

Oh, okay.

[Adam Schafer]

I think I even like that. I don't mind that you did the cut for a little bit. In fact, how long have you been doing the cut for.

[Desi]

Like maybe a month and a half.

[Adam Schafer]

Okay, so, okay, so this is what we, if I, if I was training you and we got up to a high calorie, like for you, which was 21.50 and you've never been there before and you were curious what it would look like. I would probably put you on a look. I probably would have only done it for like two weeks or so and then gone right back up again.

[Sal DiStefano]

Yep.

[Adam Schafer]

So everything you did, I think is great. I just, I think you could go right back, but this time go up to 2200 calories or 2250 and do that for a while and see how long you can stay there and not putting and watch your strength come right back and you'll be feeling great again. And ultimately the goal would for us to kind of keep doing that where we get to a calorie intake, you've never been at, for, for a while. Feel, you know, embrace this train length, stay there for a while and while is like two months. Then do a little cut for two weeks and then go right back again. And just keep, every time you go back, you try and bump the calories a little bit more, a little bit more until you and I have got to a place where you're eating 2800 calories. And now when you cut, it's 22, 2300 calories and you feel, you feel satiated, you feel, you feel stronger, which is going to be one of the benefits of, of getting your calorie intake is that you could be in a cut and still have pretty good strength. 1500 is really low and you're definitely going to feel that when, when you're, when you're lifting. And so it's totally normal that you felt that. It's not bad, it's just, it's, it's expected. And so ultimately the goal would be to keep kind of doing what you're doing and get those calories up and, and just why. And over time, you're going to just continue to love the way it continues to shape and build your body.

[Sal DiStefano]

Yeah. Now, now, just so you understand the little two week cuts that Adam's talking about, the purpose of that would be to help you with the appetite part. If you feel like, oh my God, I'm eating so much food, a two week cut will help stimulate that again. But here's the other part of this though, that I want you to examine. Oftentimes, people who've counted calories or always watched their weight for most of their life or have been very aware of it, I should say, whenever they get to a certain point that feels uncomfortable, it's not because it's too much food. They're just a bit fearful, like, oh, I think I'm eating too much. Like maybe I shouldn't be eating this much because they're not used to eating. They're not used to feeding their body. So that's a question I want to ask that I would want you to ask yourself through this process. Is this really feel like I'm stuffing myself or does it really feel like I'm just afraid, I'm just afraid of going this high?

[Adam Schafer]

Yep.

[Desi]

Okay.

[Sal DiStefano]

Yeah. If you don't have Maps for Maps Performance 15, I'll send that to you and those two programs, you can go back and forth for the rest of your life.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah.

[Desi]

Okay. That would be awesome. Yeah, I don't have that one.

[Adam Schafer]

I love that choice for you, by the way. I think what you're doing is great. Slowly increasing calories running a 15 program like that. I'm excited to see what happens over the next five to six months.

[Sal DiStefano]

And by the way, if you started back in January and if you do this well, you've got some nice strength gains for the next two years, at least. Where you're gonna. Yeah. Now, it's not gonna be super linear, but you're gonna see yourself generally, over time, get stronger. So if you went from 15 to 30, it's gonna be really exciting to see where you end up. You know, a couple years from now, you'll be doing things that you didn't think possible, which is pretty cool.

[Desi]

Thanks. That sounds awesome. Yeah, I'm excited.

[Adam Schafer]

Doing. Doing great. Desi.

[Desi]

Go back to increasing my calories.

[Sal DiStefano]

Good.

[Adam Schafer]

Keep it up. You're doing great.

[Desi]

Thank you.

[Adam Schafer]

All right, Desi.

[Desi]

Appreciate it.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah.

[Sal DiStefano]

All right. Bye. Bye. It's. I get why, you know, people are afraid of that, but oftentimes, like, oh, I feel like I'm eating. You know, this is too much food for me. The question is, does it really feel like it's too much food, or is it the fear?

[Adam Schafer]

No, it's. It's a great way to challenge her thinking around that, because that's so true. A lot of people. It's not. It's just. It's a lot for them. They've never had that. And anytime in the past, maybe they have. They've. It's, like, turned into body fat, and they freak out that it's like, oh, God, this is going to unfamiliar area.

[Sal DiStefano]

Well, what it feels like is somebody who's always been super hyper aware of eating too much. They feel more comfortable with the empty feeling. And so to them, that's like anything other than that doesn't feel good. Just like, for me, which was the reverse. I always stuffed myself trying not to be a skinny kid, and going without feeling like I had all this food in my belly was like, oh, I'm eating too little. So it's a bit of a distorted connection to how I felt.

[Adam Schafer]

Our next caller is Jim from Australia.

[Sal DiStefano]

Welcome back, sir.

[Jim]

Okay, boys.

[Sal DiStefano]

Okay, Okay.

[Jim]

I only have one question.

[Sal DiStefano]

Okay, okay.

[Jim]

Who was the. I was going to say sadistic, but let's just say enthusiastic. Author of Phase 3, Day 1 of Aesthetic.

[Sal DiStefano]

Oh, that's.

[Adam Schafer]

That's the. That's the pull. That's. Is that the pull up and the back and forth?

[Sal DiStefano]

This is a bunch of supersets.

[Adam Schafer]

That was probably Sal's idea. No know that for sure. Sal's idea.

[Sal DiStefano]

How'd you like?

[Justin Andrews]

These are the aesthetic guys.

[Sal DiStefano]

Yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

So, yeah, definitely not Justin's idea. It was either Sal or I probably.

[Justin Andrews]

I thought you were gonna go matrix lunch and I was like, oh, here we go.

[Jim]

Well, thank you, boys. Thank you.

[Adam Schafer]

I mean, brutal.

[Jim]

I don't know what went through your mind when you thought, you know, let's program six supersets. Four, six, each one after the other. How we go with that, man, boys. I mean, I've had some, some tough routines, but you guys humbled me. Absolutely humbled me. Anyway, just a quick recap, you know, I'm 67, been training since I was 16. Celebrated half a century of holding a weight above my chest. Bulk of that time was using a four day split gathered from magazines and stuff from Frank, Zane, Arnie, all the greats of my day. So I was feeling confident and arrogant that I thought I knew what I was doing. But I sought your advice as the volume in Anabolic wasn't the right fit for me. You suggested aesthetic. Again, thank you boys for bringing me closer to health. That was a very interesting experience. Anyway, you asked for my thoughts and I'm going to keep this short.

[Sal DiStefano]

Because.

[Jim]

It'S 3am here and last time my diatribe went for about 15 minutes. Now, I showed my wife the interview. The only thing she said was she looked at me and said, you really don't know when to shut up, do you, G. So apologies, boys, let's get quick, quickly into it. My thoughts, because you asked for them.

[Sal DiStefano]

Okay.

[Jim]

Aesthetic pushed me way beyond what I.

[Sal DiStefano]

Thought it would be.

[Jim]

I loved the novelty, absolutely enjoyed the novelty, first and foremost of the routine. Like anything new, it's exciting to try and I think my body responded quite favorably. Going from the four day split or even Anabolic to this three day full body has had an interesting effect psychologically with me. I've not once made an excuse not to train. I mean, I only finished. I only finished Aesthetic last week. Not once did I miss. Oh, hang on. Except for the second time I did phase three, day one. I mean, seriously, wow, that was a killer. But anyway, I feel less fatigued and more ability because of the increased rest periods and consequently I feel really good about it. Boys, you've hit upon something here. Now, I did not conform strictly to.

[Sal DiStefano]

The routine.

[Jim]

Because I do a 30 minute AB and stretch routine every morning when I get up at 5am and it's intense enough to make me sweat in the middle of winter. So I know it's It's a good routine for me. So I dropped all the crunches and leg lifts at the end of the aesthetic routines.

[Adam Schafer]

Okay.

[Jim]

And I didn't always do the focus sessions, but otherwise I was pretty, pretty religious and stuck to it.

[Adam Schafer]

It.

[Jim]

Now you got me to introduce squats and deadlifts. I explained last time I just stood right clear of him for the almost the whole 50 years of my training career.

[Adam Schafer]

Because.

[Jim]

The reasoning was, you know, I saw a lot of my mates in the 70s and 80s had bad backs and all that sort of stuff and Sal explained that to me last time, so I won't go into that. But, but what I did was, I did those, both the deadlifts and the squats with a lightweight and just focusing on that form. And I'm actually able to stand on one leg while putting my underpants on now. So thanks, boys. Something like that for a guy my age is a big deal.

[Adam Schafer]

That is a big deal. That's awesome.

[Justin Andrews]

When.

[Jim]

Yes, it is a win. But all jokes aside, it's given me renewed confidence, boys, and at my age too. So well done for teaching me another lesson.

[Sal DiStefano]

No.

[Jim]

One of the practicalities of that, of course, is I'm able to pick up my granddaughter from the ground. So much easier now. But I feel as if I might have to introduce a Turkish get up or something because it's still a challenge for me to, while I'm laying down on the floor to pick her up. So that's something I'm probably going to introduce later on anyway.

[Sal DiStefano]

Great idea.

[Adam Schafer]

I like that. Perfect.

[Jim]

Now I took some measurements as Adam suggested before I started aesthetic. Look, I lost a little bit of size off my chest. And, and that's to be expected. I mean, I went from, you know, four or five exercises of four sets each, twice a week to, to what is what aesthetic gives me now. But having said that, I feel as if I fill out my T shirt more. I feel broader. I feel a general sense of well being. So to me, losing that, that, that inch off my chest, I think it was worth it.

[Adam Schafer]

It really was.

[Jim]

I really feel good about this.

[Sal DiStefano]

Good, good. And you, did you, you might have got leaner through the program. Did you notice anything like that?

[Jim]

That, say again?

[Sal DiStefano]

Sorry, S, did you notice that you got leaner through the program? Because that'll change the chest measurement.

[Jim]

No, mate, I didn't get leaner. I, I, I won't lie there. I did put on, I put on three kilos and that's, and that's what, what's about six, seven pounds oh, wow. But yeah, my, my belts are a bit tighter. I did, I went, I went on a bulk while I was doing it.

[Sal DiStefano]

Okay, okay.

[Jim]

Because I thought, you know, this is the, the, the volume in this is pretty high. So I want to make sure I've got my.

[Adam Schafer]

Good call my calories up.

[Justin Andrews]

Smart.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah, good call, Good call.

[Jim]

I didn't push myself in terms of weight as I focused on the form predominantly as. As that's very important. My age, as Sal suggested, I honed in on the skill rather than the weight. So perhaps I didn't get the outcome I could have. So this is what I've decided to do. Boys, I've just finished aesthetic. I'm gonna go back on a four day split routine for four weeks just to introduce the novelty back into my body. Yeah, I'm gonna do, I'm gonna do aesthetic again, but increase the weights and more time under tension. I think, I think it's gonna be a very effective program for me.

[Adam Schafer]

I love that. I love that idea. If I can make one suggestion, just because you noticed a little decrease in your chest, is if you make a little more effort on the focus sessions and make the chest the thing you focus on. Watch that come right up so that right there. And I love the idea of interrupting this, going back for four weeks for the novelty, then coming back and then just. I would do focus days, add stuff on the chest. And I think right there, the combination of that, your skills improving, getting better, maybe adding a little bit more weight on all those lifts. Look out.

[Jim]

I, I think you're. I think you're right, Adam. I will. You. You guys suggested a whole stack of focus sessions on chest and, and I've got all the gear for all those exercises, so I'll definitely do that. There's, there's one point, you guys. I, I didn't think it was fair for me to compare anabolic to a step because I think that was what you guys asked me to do as well, because they really are for different purposes. And I understand that now. I understand what you guys were going on about, having gone through the. Both programs now. And for my use case, it's defiantly, defiantly aesthetic.

[Adam Schafer]

Love it.

[Jim]

Now, last point, because I promised my wife that I was going to be quick. You guys deserve all the respect and comments you get. You knew what was going to happen with me, and that says something about your ability. I thought I knew a lot, but just going through this one program of yours and the impact it's had on my body and my psyche because that was what I was worried about, my psyche. It's been incredible for me. Not only did you guys teach this old dog new tricks, but the confidence you've given me, I'm thinking I can still do this for another decade or two into my 90s.

[Sal DiStefano]

Yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

Hell yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

That's right.

[Sal DiStefano]

Excellent.

[Adam Schafer]

Well, Jim, you inspire us, brother. You're. You're an inspiration to us, let me tell you.

[Justin Andrews]

Love it.

[Jim]

Well, thanks, guys. Seriously, gentlemen, you really made a difference in my life. I didn't think I would get the satisfaction and the excitement. I'm, I'm. It's 3 o' clock in the morning here and I'm after this, I'm, I'm going back, I'm going.

[Sal DiStefano]

Sleeping.

[Adam Schafer]

I love it.

[Sal DiStefano]

All right.

[Adam Schafer]

I love it. We appreciate you. Thank you, man. Thank you, man.

[Jim]

Thanks, boys. Seriously, thank you very much for all your advice. I love you guys and I'll keep listening. Thanks, boys.

[Sal DiStefano]

Thank you. You know what's cool about that?

[Adam Schafer]

Great guy.

[Sal DiStefano]

What's cool about that? For me, right, Just to listen, like. 67. 67. Been working out for most of his life. Strength training, bodybuilding, the amount of volume he can handle.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah, I know.

[Sal DiStefano]

Aesthetic is a lot of volume, a ton. But it's just so cool because his body is so conditioned to be able to, to do that. Anybody listening who's, you know, wants to strength train as they age like it is, it gets better and better and better.

[Adam Schafer]

I don't think there's been yet a 60 plus year old that we have ever recommended aesthetic to.

[Sal DiStefano]

No, but after, when we talked to him on the last.

[Adam Schafer]

No, I remember.

[Justin Andrews]

No, we did.

[Adam Schafer]

I remember. I mean, that was. If there's a guy who's going to do that and, and see great benefits from it, he was the guy, dude.

[Sal DiStefano]

You know, so, so I remember learning about Jack LaLanne's workout routine in his mid-50s, which, by the way, that's when he sent the world record for push ups and pull ups. Yeah. 55 years old, so rad. Even in his 90s, before he died, he was doing some pretty amazing workouts. So it's definitely possible, so long as it's appropriate. But Jim is a great example of that. Look, if you like the show, come find us on Instagram. Justin is at mindpumpjustin. I'm at mindpump. Distefano. Adam. Mind Pump. Adam, thank you for listening to Mind Pump. If your goal is to build and.

[Adam Schafer]

Shape your body, dramatically improve your health.

[Sal DiStefano]

And energy and maximize your overall performance, check out our discounted RGB Super Bundle at Mind. The RGB Super Bundle includes Maps, Anabolic Maps, Performance and Maps Aesthetic nine months of phased expert exercise programming designed by Sal, Adam and Justin to systematically transform the way your body looks, feels and performs. With detailed workout blueprints and over 200 videos. The RGB Super Bundle is like having Sal, Adam and Justin as your own personal trainers, but at a fraction of the price. The RGB Super Bundle has a full.

[Adam Schafer]

30 day money back guarantee and you.

[Sal DiStefano]

Can get it now. Plus other valuable free [e-mail] if you enjoy this show, please share the love by leaving us a five star rating and review on itunes and by introducing Mind Pump to your friends and family. We thank you for your support and until next time, this is Mind Pump.