2646: Ten Signs You May Benefit From Hormone Therapy & More (Listener Live Coaching)

Summary

Mind Pump Podcast Episode 2646 Summary: Ten Signs You May Benefit From Hormone Therapy & More (Listener Live Coaching)

Introduction

In episode 2646 of "Mind Pump: Raw Fitness Truth," hosts Sal DeStefano, Adam Schaefer, Justin Andrews, and Doug Egge tackle the crucial topic of hormone replacement therapy (HRT). This episode not only outlines the ten signs that indicate a potential need for HRT but also features live coaching segments where listeners seek personalized advice on their fitness and health journeys.

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Ten Signs You May Benefit From Hormone Therapy

The core of the episode revolves around identifying symptoms that suggest hormonal imbalances might be impacting health and fitness. The hosts discuss each sign in detail, providing both scientific insights and personal anecdotes.

1. Unexplained Weight Gain or Changes in Fat Storage

   • Discussion: Hormonal shifts can alter how and where the body stores fat. Women, especially during perimenopause and menopause, may notice an increase in belly fat, a shift from previous storage in hips and arms.
   • Notable Quote:
     [06:22] Doug: "That never happened in the belly before. It was usually elsewhere. It was like hips and back of the arms. Now it's in the belly."

2. Muscle Weakness or Muscle Loss

   • Discussion: Both men and women might experience unexpected muscle loss or decreased strength despite maintaining regular training and proper nutrition. Sal shares his experience of reduced muscle strength in his late 30s due to low testosterone.
   • Notable Quote:
     [11:26] Sal: "Muscle weakness or muscle loss is what I experienced. It was just started noticing this real dramatic decline in my ability to handle volume and training."

3. Blood Sugar Changes

   • Discussion: Hormonal imbalances, particularly low testosterone, can affect blood sugar regulation, mimicking symptoms akin to diabetes. This change underscores the importance of hormonal health in metabolic processes.

4. Low Energy

   • Discussion: A significant drop in energy levels, characterized by persistent fatigue and a lack of motivation, can signal hormonal deficiencies. Correcting hormone levels often leads to a substantial increase in energy and overall vitality.
   • Notable Quote:
     [12:52] Sal: "Low energy is another one. It's more common... If you're like, I don't have motivation. I don't have energy."

5. Brain Fog

   • Discussion: Approximately 40% of individuals benefiting from HRT report experiencing brain fog, which hampers cognitive functions like memory and focus. Hormonal changes can disrupt insulin sensitivity and other brain-related functions, leading to this symptom.
   • Notable Quote:
     [13:26] Sal: "Brain fog happens about 40% of people who benefit from hormone replacement therapy."

6. Physical Aches and Pains

   • Discussion: Unexpected stiffness and aches, despite regular exercise and proper form, can indicate hormonal imbalances. Sal recounts clients who only found relief from joint pain after starting HRT.
   • Notable Quote:
     [14:03] Doug: "Every joint is achy."

7. Dry Skin or Brittle Nails

   • Discussion: While sometimes linked to nutrient deficiencies, persistent dryness of the skin or brittleness of nails despite adequate nutrition should prompt an evaluation for hormonal imbalances.

8. Low Libido and Vaginal Dryness

   • Discussion: Low libido in men and vaginal dryness in women are commonly associated with declining hormone levels. These symptoms are among the more recognized indicators of hormonal imbalance.
   • Notable Quote:
     [15:18] Justin: "Those are more common."

9. Mood Changes

   • Discussion: Significant and uncharacteristic mood swings or persistent depression can be linked to hormonal fluctuations. The hosts caution against excessive self-focus, which can exacerbate mood issues, especially in men.
   • Notable Quote:
     [16:21] Sal: "Also, low libido and vaginal dryness is another one. I think those are more common."

10. [Potential Missing Sign]

    • Discussion: While the transcript primarily details nine signs, it's possible the tenth sign was discussed broadly under another category or might require further clarification.

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The Role of HRT in Health and Fitness

HRT is portrayed not as a cure-all but as a significant aid in balancing hormones, which in turn can enhance health and fitness. The hosts emphasize that HRT should complement a balanced diet and regular exercise. Proper lifestyle choices are essential to maximize the benefits of HRT and ensure overall well-being.

Notable Quote:
[05:10] Sal: "Exercise and good diet needs to be a part of this."

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Addressing Stigma and Misconceptions About HRT

The hosts delve into the historical stigma surrounding HRT, often linked to its association with anabolic steroids and performance enhancement. They argue that when administered correctly under medical supervision, HRT can significantly improve quality of life without the adverse side effects associated with steroid abuse.

Notable Quote:
[22:00] Justin: "It's really absurd... The range is 400 to like 1100."

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Listener Live Coaching

The latter half of the episode features live coaching sessions where listeners call in with specific health and fitness challenges. The hosts offer tailored advice, drawing from their extensive experience.

1. Porter from Colorado – Healing Relationship with Food

   • Issue: Porter struggles with emotional eating, especially under stress. Despite working with an eating recovery coach and following intuitive eating principles, he finds it challenging to manage cravings during high-stress situations.
   • Advice: The hosts encourage Porter to continue fostering self-awareness while balancing self-focus with other-focused activities to prevent depression.
   • Notable Quote:
     [60:25] Sal: "You're moving in the right direction. You're working with a professional... You're doing great."

2. Eric from Texas – Managing Overtraining and Calorie Intake

   • Issue: Eric, a 60-year-old, has been strength training intensely while on a calorie-restricted diet, leading to symptoms of overtraining like fatigue and poor sleep.
   • Advice: The hosts recommend increasing his calorie intake by 500 calories and reducing workout intensity to allow for proper recovery. They emphasize the importance of not simultaneously increasing activity while cutting calories.
   • Notable Quote:
     [83:24] Sal: "You're going to get overtrained... Bump your calories 500 and reduce the workouts."

3. Charles from New Jersey – Next Steps After Achieving Fitness Goals

   • Issue: Charles successfully reduced his weight from 265 to 175 pounds using Mind Pump's programs and seeks guidance on maintaining and furthering his progress.
   • Advice: The hosts suggest transitioning to programs like MAP Strong or Symmetry to continue building strength and enhancing physical conditioning.
   • Notable Quote:
     [93:16] Sal: "We'll send you MAP Strong and we'll take... You're doing great, man. Keep it going."

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Personal Experiences and Anecdotes

Sal and Doug share compelling stories of clients who underwent significant transformations through HRT. These anecdotes highlight the profound impact of balanced hormones on both physical performance and overall quality of life.

Notable Quote:
[10:04] Doug: "Once she got on hormone replacement therapy, it was like a physiological switch just happened."

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Conclusion and Takeaways

Episode 2646 serves as an insightful guide on recognizing hormonal imbalances and understanding the role of hormone replacement therapy in enhancing health and fitness. The detailed discussion of ten signs, coupled with real-life coaching scenarios, underscores the importance of a balanced approach combining HRT, exercise, and nutrition. The hosts advocate for informed, science-backed solutions to navigate the complexities of hormonal health, dispelling myths and addressing misconceptions along the way.

Notable Quotes:

• [06:22] Doug: "That never happened in the belly before... Now it's in the belly."
• [11:26] Sal: "Muscle weakness or muscle loss is what I experienced. It was just started noticing this real dramatic decline in my ability to handle volume and training."
• [12:52] Sal: "Low energy is another one. It's more common... If you're like, I don't have motivation. I don't have energy."
• [14:03] Doug: "Every joint is achy."
• [15:18] Justin: "Those are more common."
• [16:21] Sal: "Also, low libido and vaginal dryness is another one. I think those are more common."
• [22:00] Justin: "It's really absurd... The range is 400 to like 1100."
• [60:25] Sal: "You're moving in the right direction. You're working with a professional... You're doing great."
• [83:24] Sal: "You're going to get overtrained... Bump your calories 500 and reduce the workouts."
• [10:04] Doug: "Once she got on hormone replacement therapy, it was like a physiological switch just happened."

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Final Thoughts

This episode emphasizes the intricate relationship between hormones and overall health, advocating for a well-rounded approach to fitness that includes medical guidance, proper nutrition, and consistent exercise. By addressing both common and nuanced signs of hormonal imbalance, the Mind Pump hosts provide listeners with actionable insights to enhance their health and fitness journeys.

Transcript

[Sal DeStefano]

If you want to pump your body and expand your mind, there's only one place to go. Mind Pump. Mind Pump. With your hosts Sal Destefano, Adam Schaefer and Justin Andrews, you just found the most downloaded fitness, health and entertainment podcast. This is Mind Pump. In today's episode, we answered listeners questions. People actually called in, we got to help them on air. But this was after our intro. Today's intro was 55 minutes long. Now, in the intro we talk about fitness studies on fat loss, muscle gain. Today we talked about hormone replacement therapy. It's a good time, by the way, if you want to be on an episode like this where you can ask us questions about your fitness and health and we can help you. Email us your [e-mail] now this episode is brought to you by some sponsors. The first one is Brain fm. They play sounds, functional music that induces different states of mind as proven with FMRI studies and EEG tests. In other words, you listen to their focus, your brain becomes more focused, you listen to meditation, you become more meditative, you listen to sleep, you get better sleep. Don't take it from me. Try it for yourself for free for 30 days. Go to Brain FM. Mindpump. This episode is also brought to you by Ned. Today we talked about their hemp oil products that are full spectrum, some of them high in cbg. Their de stress blend is high in CBG that has been shown to. Maybe there's some studies that show to reduce fatty deposits in the heart. Nonetheless, most people like to use their products for anxiety, sleep or just feelings of euphoria. This is the hemp oil you can feel. Go try them out. Go to helloned.com that's H E L L O N dashed.com mindpump. Use the code mindpump. Get 20. We also have a sale on some workout programs, maps split in the anabolic metabolism bundle of programs. All of that is 50% off. Just head over to maps fitnessproducts.com and then use the code july50 for the discount. Here comes the show T shirt time.

[Adam Schaefer]

And it's T shirt time.

[Justin Andrews]

Ah, shit, Doug. You know it's my favorite time of the week.

[Adam Schaefer]

Two winners this week, one for Apple podcasts, one for Facebook. The Apple podcast winner is BZ Pants. And for Facebook, we have Jacob Bentley. Both of you are winners. Send the name I just read to itunesindpumpmedia.com include your shirt size and your shipping address and we'll get that shirt right out to you.

[Sal DeStefano]

If you're over 35, you've probably considered hormone replacement therapy. Supposedly burns fat, builds muscle, makes you feel like you're 18 again. Is this true and what are the symptoms that you may benefit from hormone replacement therapy? Today we're gonna go over all the symptoms. So some well known, some not so well known that you may benefit from doing this. Let's get into it.

[Justin Andrews]

I think, I think everybody's going to probably fall into this category. You know, I do. I just think, I don't know, has your guys position, I mean mine's changed or evolved around it. Obviously. In my 20s, I did steroids as a kid and knowing damn well that I didn't need them and they were probably bad for me and then later realized how many of my clients, as they got into their 40s and beyond on this was like life changing for them. And so there's like, there's definitely a abuse and, and bad side of it that I think, I think the general population is more aware of. And then there's the other side of like people that it can be life changing for. And I, and I think that a lot of people don't get that part because of the way the general practitioners typically talk about this.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah, I would say hormone replacement therapy is probably more of a panacea. I hate using that word because that's, it's not, it's not a panacea. It's not going to solve all your problems. But it's, it's, it's more valuable, I believe, for women than it is for men as they get older. Not saying it's not valuable for men. I think if you're a cat, if you're a candidate, it's going to be incredible for you. But what you see with women, perimenopause, which starts to happen late 30s and then menopause. Right. A little later, is you see if you were to look at a chart of prescriptions for things like enzymetics or antidepressants, let's just say things that we typically take or are prescribed because we don't feel good or we don't feel like ourselves, you see that spike as women go through menopause. And if you were to take another chart and were to look at women who went on hormone replacement therapy and how they felt before and after a lot of the symptoms that they tend to get treatments for. And again, I'm going to be clear, I'm not a doctor, so you'd want to go to a doctor for this. But you see that the symptoms that they often get treatments for. With pharmaceuticals are some of the same exact symptoms that get solved with hormone replacement therapy. And hormone replacement therapy is, according to the data, healthier for you. Now, I also want to say this. Exercise and good diet needs to be a part of this. Like pushing young hormones through your body when you're inflammatory and unhealthy is probably not good.

[Justin Andrews]

Right.

[Sal DeStefano]

It's probably not a good idea, both for men and women.

[Justin Andrews]

Not to mention that sometimes diet and exercise solves this for life.

[Sal DeStefano]

Oh, yeah, no, no, good point. Absolutely good point. But I think what we'll do is let's go through this, the symptoms. And some of these are both for men and women. Some of them are just for women. And let's talk about them. And some of these are. Are common ones that if you were to ask somebody, they might be able to, you know, throw them out. Others not so common, but rather are common complaints of getting older that actually a result of hormones. Hormones changing. Because hormones drive so many functions in the body. So this is a big deal, everybody. Like when your hormones change, a lot of things changes. And I'll start with the first one. You start to get this. Unexplained weight gain, or to be more specific, the way you store body fat changes suddenly. Now, I remember this as a trainer training clients. A majority of my clients were women. That's just the way it is for personal training. And a majority of those women were women who were either perimenopausal or menopausal, because that's the category of people that tends to be able to afford personal training. And I would hear this all the time. I'm storing body fat in my belly.

[Doug]

Yeah. That never happened in the belly before. It was usually elsewhere. It was like hips and back of the arms. Now it's in the belly.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah. Or. Or I'm getting like weird cellulite that I never had before. Things just look different. I don't understand what's happening. Or what I would hear from men is, you know, I'm doing what I've always done. Nothing's really changed. Which, by the way, as a young trainer, my apologies. I thought they were just. Yeah. Not telling the truth or not aware. But they would say things like, I'm doing everything the same. I'm suddenly gaining body fat and I'm just. I don't know what's happening. Hormones drive. They can drive fat loss or fat storage, and they can change how you store body fat. And when. What you'll see in both men and women is an increase in visceral body fat. But in women in particular, they start to store body fat in their belly. What you'll see with men, by the way, is they'll start to store body fat like women. So if a man's hormones are really, really off, he suddenly starts to store body fat in his upper chest, in hips, and he's like, I don't know what's going on.

[Doug]

Jiggly butt.

[Justin Andrews]

Now that, that pear shape. The guy will get sort of get that pear shape when he's. Yes, they're off.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yes. So. But this is unexplained. Okay. So again, it's gonna require some awareness. So if you're like, I don't know what's happening, but then you look back, well, you like crap. You know, I'm not working out. That's probably what's, what's causing it.

[Justin Andrews]

I was. So were you guys. I mean, I was. When I think of a, a category of clients that I train menopausal. Menopausal women were the most intimidating thing for me to train.

[Doug]

Very difficult.

[Sal DeStefano]

Oh, yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

Because of this exact reason right here is because they would be describing something that I couldn't explain, their doctors couldn't quite explain. And so I limited to the tools.

[Doug]

That, you know, which is.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah. And then, and like you, I, I was just like, it was when I do the calorie counting and the figuring all that out, and they're telling me they're doing all that stuff, I'm just like, it ain't adding up. I just assumed that they had it in line. But I, I, I did know enough, though, that enough women had told me that the opposite, that I, something was going on. I, you know, like, originally, the first few, it might have been like, oh, yeah, she's lying. She's just probably eating on the side and not telling me or whatever. But as that started to happen more and more, I realized, like, something else is going on here that I don't have the tools and the resources to communicate this with. I was always a really intimidating client in my early years as a personal trainer. It wasn't until later on that I started to meet, like, hormone specialists and people that actually specialize in helping both women and men that go through stuff like this and realize that the general practitioner just didn't have all the resources. They just did not have all the tools to support these people. And they were just giving them terrible advice. And so, of course, don't feel as bad now because I realized, like, we went that far, all the way to the general practitioner. But I, Man, I always struggled having those clients.

[Sal DeStefano]

I had a few clients. This, when it became more obvious to me, was later in my career when I would have clients that would. Were training with me, and they were good. They were consistent. They're working out with me, they're active on their own, their diet was relatively good, and they would be with me for a few years, and then they would go on hormone replacement therapy. And it was like, whoa, what is happening? I mean, I can think of a couple times where both men and women where they would train with me, they'd go on hormone replacement therapy, and within three to six months, we would just see these radical changes. Like, I'm like, oh, my God. This is, like, a big difference now. I expected it from the men because I had experience with anabolic steroids, so I knew what that did. But with the women, it was like, oh, my God. Like, this is really making a big difference in your performance in here and how you feel and how lean you're getting. Like, this is pretty wild. And oftentimes they would eat more and get leaner as the muscles started to build.

[Doug]

Yeah. To your earlier point, that's what really shifted my mindset, was seeing that progress and success with my female clients that had. I was applying everything I could. We were addressing sleep. We were trying, like, and even, like, my client who had retired and now is, like, not in such demand and not being woken up in the middle of the night all the time, like, finally getting seen some progress, but there was just nothing that was really accelerating that. And once she got on hormone replacement therapy, it was like. It's just like this physiological switch just happened. And, you know. You know, and. And for me, it's always been a big stigma because I was an athlete and I was around a lot of, like, anabolic steroids. And I just was so adamant to not be a part of that and to see just what a. What a difference, you know, that made and transformation that made within, like, my clients. Like, it. It was like, it was crazy to me to see that and then see, like, you know, there really is something here that we're missing.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah. And again, to be clear, we. We've had experts on the show who are hormone experts, doctors, and what they'll say is that hormone replacement therapy plus exercise, diet, lifestyle for someone who needs it is healthy in comparison to that same person doing everything right without the hormone replacement therapy. Hormone replacement therapy without exercise and diet now becomes much more of a. Yeah, that's okay. Let's see what's going on?

[Justin Andrews]

Ideal.

[Sal DeStefano]

The next one is muscle weakness or muscle loss. Again, kind of unexplained. This is what I experienced. So I experienced this in my late 30s. It was just started noticing this real dramatic decline in my ability to handle volume and training. And I'm kind of like losing muscle. I was like, what is going on? This is very different than it was just a few years ago. Come to find out my testosterone was in the floor and made a huge difference. This is true for both men and women, though. And you'll know this if you are consistently working out. So this is one of those. This is the person that has been exercising this whole time and then suddenly, why am I losing strength? Why am I losing muscle? Change the workout. Still happening. Reduce the volume. Still not. Still not reversing. This is very strange. It's kind of in that. Again, in that category of I can't figure this out. This seems to be a bit unexplained. The next one is blood sugar changes. So this happens like you see with men to low testosterone as muscle loss starts to happen and you start to see their blood sugar starts to kind of suddenly change. You'll see this in. In women as well. Again, I would use the context of I've been doing everything consistently and now suddenly this is becoming kind of an issue. I don't understand what's going on. Low energy is another one. This is a more common one. This is the kind of low energy that feels crushing. Yeah, I'm getting more sleep.

[Justin Andrews]

Almost like mild depression.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yes. It's like I'm getting more sleep. I'm doing. I don't understand what's happening. I don't have motivation. I don't have energy. By the way, you feel this dramatic shift in energy when you finally get the hormones right. With hormone therapy, it's like the lights were turned on.

[Doug]

Less of a grind. Everything's a grind before that.

[Sal DeStefano]

That's right. That's right. And now we'll get into some of the more, the less common ones. Brain fog. So I looked this one up. This happens about 40% of people who benefit from hormone replacement therapy.

[Justin Andrews]

What is causing brain fog?

[Sal DeStefano]

Your brain. All the functions of the body are driven by hormones. And when your hormones move into it, again, lack of a better term, a suboptimal range. It feels like you can't get the words. I can't remember the thing I don't understand.

[Justin Andrews]

Like a firing thing. You think, is it like, not firing the way it should fire? Like, what is.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah, it could Be insulin sensitivity. Changes.

[Doug]

Changes.

[Justin Andrews]

Well, maybe we're not using carbohydrates correctly.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah. And you'll. By the way, this is more commonly described in women.

[Doug]

Yeah. Is it hypothyroidism is.

[Sal DeStefano]

Thyroid plays a brain fog. Huge role in this one.

[Doug]

Yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

And you'll. Again, you'll hear this more commonly in women where they're like, I'm just forgetting stuff. I just don't understand what's going on.

[Doug]

I heard that a lot.

[Sal DeStefano]

40 of people will feel this one, the next one, this one. Again, this one is not as commonly known, but it's common. 30 to 50% of people who benefit from hormone replacement therapy just start feeling more aches and pains. And this is what I would hear. This is what I've heard from friends and clients who went on hormone replacement therapy before they were on it. They'd be like, I just. I wake up, I feel like I hit by a car. I don't understand.

[Doug]

Every joint is achy.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah. Like, I suddenly have stiffness and achiness in my body that I didn't have before. I'm stretching, I'm exercising. I just don't get it. I just don't feel. I just feel stiff and achy. Thyroid, testosterone, estrogen, progesterone, growth hormone, all of those will play a role in all the things that we're talking about, including aches and pains. Dry skin or brittle nails is another one that could also be a nutrient deficiency. But if your nutrients are good, what is going on? Again, that's what people will typically say. Low libido and vaginal dryness is another one. I think those are more common.

[Justin Andrews]

Those are way more common.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah. Those are commonly understood, I think, in men in particular, low testosterone. One of the first things that, by the way, you don't have to get low libido first.

[Doug]

Red flags.

[Sal DeStefano]

So this didn't happen.

[Justin Andrews]

You were an example of this.

[Sal DeStefano]

This didn't happen.

[Justin Andrews]

I remember when I first was asking you back then, you're like, no, no, I'm fine. My libido's fine. Like, so you think that it's going to be that way. But you're. You're an example. Somebody who had low testosterone. But I had all.

[Sal DeStefano]

I had all these other symptoms, but I did not have low libido. And then just so people know, when I got tested, my total Testosterone was under 230, just like in the floor. And yet I still had a libido. Because libido is driven by a lot of different things. But most men in particular when their testosterone starts to drop, they just don't have the drive. They just don't have the drive anymore. And then finally, mood changes. Now again, this is out of ordinary mood changes. Okay. And also, let me just warn people, I wouldn't use this as a way to talk to your partner. Probably won't work very well. Yeah. Hey, I think you need some hormone replacement.

[Justin Andrews]

But let me tell you, when hormones are off. One of the craziest things I ever felt when I went through that phase of coming off and then trying to go natural and feeling my hormones fluctuation like that, really total mood changes. Emotional, find myself almost ready to cry on a commercial. I would never cry over and upset. I mean I could, I could really feel the difference of that. So that's. I think this one is too, a little also more common too. It's like you will feel a difference hormonally when, when they're out of whack. I mean you can feel that totally.

[Sal DeStefano]

And you know, but just. Just personal anecdote. So my, My wife now, she's now on hormone replacement therapy and it has been a total game changer. Now she had some of these symptoms. Her sleep was not good for a while. But then of course we had kids. So we thought, oh, it's the kids. But then the kids are sleeping well, she's still not getting good sleep. Energy was just not great. So that was a big one. The brain fog was. Was worse. But then as the kids got a little older, got a little better, but it wasn't back to how she was before. So that wasn't a big one. Here's the big one. Physical aches and pains. A. Energy and physical aches and pains. My. My poor wife seemed to have a problem all the time. And I felt so bad for her. She would tell me that, like, there's something always wrong with me. It's either my back or my jaw or my neck. She's like, I'm not. I don't understand what's going on. We would look at her exercise technique or form massage. Chiropractor would help. Just couldn't figure it out. She just recently she's doing the like. Because here's the deal with. With women in hormone replacement therapy versus men. Men often can get away with just doing testosterone. Oftentimes women need to go on a multifaceted approach. So it's typically not just one hormone. For women, it typically looks like some progesterone, some testosterone and some thyroid. Whereas men, oftentimes it's like we'll just go on testosterone and everything else seems to be okay. So she did the, you know, the progesterone, thyroid, little bit of testosterone. The last thing we added was a thyroid, and it was like, boom. Instantly. Instantly different.

[Justin Andrews]

Now she communicating that to you?

[Sal DeStefano]

Oh, yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

She's like, wow.

[Sal DeStefano]

She's like, this is crazy. I feel way different, way better. She used to get up in the morning and it would take her an hour just to get moving. And now she gets up and she's like, got energy, Just feels so much better. And this is just early stages as far as the aesthetic changes. That takes months. So she's like, I'm excited to see what happens and how my body responds.

[Justin Andrews]

Wow.

[Sal DeStefano]

But again, it's really, really wild. And, you know, talking. I was talking to Dr. Lauren. Dr. Lauren Fitz, who I absolutely love. She's the one that's helping Jessica right now with all of this. I asked her, I said, do you think. Because I've made this statement on the podcast, but I'm like, let me ask her. Do you think a lot of women are given prescription antidepressants and enzyolytics when all they really need is hormone replacement therapy? And she's like, yes, absolutely, 100%. Which is crazy. Which is wild when you think about it.

[Justin Andrews]

Okay, so how much are the doctors incentivized to go that direction versus the other direction?

[Sal DeStefano]

Well, the problem with the hormone, unless you're a hormone specialist and you have to be a bit forward thinking, is they have these ranges.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah, I know.

[Sal DeStefano]

And they don't base it off of symptoms. They look at the ranges.

[Justin Andrews]

That's it.

[Sal DeStefano]

Right. And so a good hormone specialist looks at both symptoms and ranges. So that's the problem. The other problem is that what they're trained on is anxiety treatment, depression treatment, and we have pharmaceuticals for those things. It's not.

[Doug]

Get you to feel a bit better by just like alleviating some of the psychological.

[Sal DeStefano]

That's right. Plus hormones. Here's my little conspiracy part of me. Hormones are generic. Progesterone, testosterone. That's why thyroid.

[Justin Andrews]

That was my point. That was my point. Is that. Is there a monetary reason why they tend to go that way? Because I know that pharmaceuticals are far more expensive than hormones are.

[Sal DeStefano]

They are. And so, yeah, so you have. I mean, when you balance out your hormones, the side effects are what improve quality of life, better health, you know, SSRIs. You know, we talked about libido. Have you seen the data on SSRIs and what they do to libido?

[Justin Andrews]

It kills it.

[Sal DeStefano]

Oh, yeah. Crushes it. Anxiolytics can be very addicting and coming off them can cause really bad. And again, if you're on either one of those or both, don't just drop them and go on hormone replacement therapy. You got to work with a doctor to figure this out because it could be scary to just come off things like that. But yeah, I think that's just how they're trained. So unless you go to like a forward thinking hormone replacement therapy clinic, what you're going to get is, oh, you're within range. So, you know, it's, you know, maybe it's something else or whatever.

[Doug]

This will help you deal with it.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah. For example, if you're a man and your testosterone, your total testosterone is 350, which is on the low end, you're not going to. Your general practitioner is not going to recommend testosterone replacement therapy even if you have all the symptoms. You go to a hormone therapy clinic and you talk to a doctor there and they see you at 350 plus you have a lot of these symptoms. Like, we're going to put you on testosterone, you know, so long as you're okay with it, we'll put you on and let's see how you feel. That's how they approach it.

[Justin Andrews]

Well, the reason why, so, so the audience knows, like, why that's so absurd to me is that the range is 400 to like 1100.

[Sal DeStefano]

No, it's 300 typically to 1100. Typically is what, the what, the general practitioner range?

[Justin Andrews]

I thought it was 300 to 1100.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah, 400.

[Justin Andrews]

400 to 1100. You say it's 300.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah, usually.

[Justin Andrews]

Okay, so 300, 1100. So even, even wider range, to my point. So you have somebody who, let's say all of their teenage years, all of their 20s, even their early 30s, cruised around 950. Not even the top. Not even 11. Not even 1100. 950, which is healthy. It's like Doug, right. Cruising around at 950 most their life. All of a sudden they get to their late 30s or early 40s and 950 goes down to 400. That's half.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah, that's ha.

[Justin Andrews]

And you're gonna feel like crap. Yeah. So to think that. Okay, okay. You're not in these, you know, ranges where we're very concerned, where you get below 300, because if you were below 300, even the general practitioner goes, hey, we probably need to get some testosterone. But if you're just hovering around the bottom and you're not through the floor that they, oh, you're fine. When it's like, man, all the things that you're, you're talking about, symptoms wise, you for sure are going to feel those. If you go from 900 to 400 and most of your adult life you've felt 900. And so it's so interesting to me that they don't consider that even at the general practitioner level.

[Sal DeStefano]

They don't. But remember hormones in particular. Testosterone is a performance enhancing drug also. So that made it, that caused all of this to go sideways because it is a like if you're, if you want to, if you're an athlete and you go out on big doses of testosterone out way outside the range, you're going to get stronger, faster, all that stuff. So once it got branded that way, it's like it put everything, you know, 10 steps behind. So that's number one. Then there's all the like the risks associated with taking those doses. Not replacement.

[Doug]

Yeah, not replacement doses.

[Sal DeStefano]

The data on replacement doses is amazing. If you go to, from suboptimal to optimal, you have an improvement in quality of life, you're healthier.

[Justin Andrews]

Any idea when the first clinic was introduced? When was the first hormone replacement therapy? Oh gosh, I don't know, A while now. Right. At least a couple decades.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

So you have over a couple decades of probably tens of thousands of patients of data that we have access to. So it's weird to me that, that that is still something that is touted is that it's this performance hansing. Oh, that's dangerous. It could be pro. Cancerous. All the, all the things, all the alarmist things that are said about it. Why are we, why are we not coming forward with more data? And you don't have to bring people's personal information, you can just use them as a patient one, patient two data of showing people. When is this? 1900s.

[Sal DeStefano]

Well that's not. Yeah, but that's not the way we're talking about it. I see what you're, I see what they're talking about though. Yeah, they were, they were, they were messing with hormones back then. I mean we know that In World War II the Nazis were using testosterone stuff too. So. But yeah, no, not the way we're talking. You know, it's, here's the other thing that we. That is true, that is very true. Okay. The average 20 something, I can't remember the exact number but the average 20 something year old male today has the testosterone of the average 60 year old in the 1980s. Okay, that's right. Now, we've been monitoring for decades now. General testosterone levels in men decline every decade. We don't know why. There's a lot of speculation. Xenoestrogens, which are chemicals that we're getting exposed to toxins, lack of activity, probably playing a role, but probably not the whole role. We're also seeing hormone changes in women. It's probably environmental, we don't know for sure. But in men in particular, this is happening, everybody. This is well documented. This isn't just like a new thing. We've been documenting this for decades. So when people say, well, my grandfather didn't need testosterone replacement therapy, your grandfather probably didn't need it because things were different back then. And now we're finding this is happening at younger and younger ages.

[Justin Andrews]

I know there's not like a, I know there's not a silver bullet, right? Or, but you gotta think that a majority of that has to do with just the, the lack of physical activity that men do.

[Sal DeStefano]

It's gotta be a part of it.

[Justin Andrews]

Has to be a big part of it.

[Sal DeStefano]

Sure.

[Justin Andrews]

Like, I mean, that, that if you were to. Of all the things like that probably that most men have in common today versus men back then, it's, it's got to be the, the physical. I mean, there's, there's a few theories.

[Sal DeStefano]

I heard that are most interesting. Xenoestrogens play a role. We, we know that we don't know how big of a role. Life is less competitive in the ways that it used to be, that tends to lower testosterone. So when men are in more physical threat, you know, more stuff. 10 testosterone levels tend to go up. Birth control got introduced which changed women's mating habits. So when women go on birth control, they tend to go towards men who have exhibit signs of lower testosterone. Did that play a role? Is it birth control? In the water? Some of it comes out when you pee. But we do know it's going down. I mean, it's been documented for a while. Fertility is going down too. We've known that for a while. So. But again, there's a stigma around hormone replacement therapy. And I'm going to tell, I'm going to say this straight up. If, if you're a candidate for this, especially if you're somebody who takes your health, you know, seriously, you exercise regularly, you eat, right. This is a game changer, absolute game changer. And it's not expensive. Hormone replacement therapy is not expensive. Peptides can be expensive. You know, testosterone, progesterone, thyroid is pretty inexpensive to Go on those types of things to notice a, you know, a radical, radical difference. So, anyway, I want to hear about your experience at the racetrack, bro. Dude, I heard you talk about this.

[Justin Andrews]

So what, fighter jet and now the racetrack?

[Sal DeStefano]

So what was the deal?

[Justin Andrews]

I think I.

[Doug]

You guys were invited, just so you know. Yeah, but, yeah, it was, it was epic, man. It was like, again, one of those kind of experiences, kind of like going to the Thunderbirds and just we showed up and we got to really get, like, inside access. And they brought us in to the team, and they brought us into the trailer, and we did the whole, like, morning meeting and introduced me and, like, how he's been listening to us and all this benefit that he's gotten from the show.

[Sal DeStefano]

What racetrack is.

[Doug]

This is at Sonoma Raceway.

[Sal DeStefano]

Okay.

[Doug]

And it was the NASCAR event. It was like their Cup Series. And so I was there, and the, the crew chief, Travis, reached out, and he's a big fan of the show. And I thought it was just him, you know, because it's like, he was very. He's the one that reached out, and he's the one that's been communicating with me and, like, kind of had taken me around and showing me everything, and then I get in there and. And everybody was just so nice introducing themselves, and I started to kind of realize that I think a lot of them really listen to the show and then later on come to find out that John, the driver, I think he's, he's been a listener and he's. I just, I gotta, I gotta say, like, what really impressed me was just the fact that he took time out even to show my kids the car and, like, take them on the track.

[Justin Andrews]

And, like, right before he's in a race, literally right before he's about to go race, and he was doing that. That was so cool.

[Doug]

Took pictures with us, and it was, like, surreal. You know, it was like. I, I, I grew up, like, my dad was a big NASCAR fan, and. And I've never been to a race. Yeah, I, I have. I've never been to a race, like, from that access. Like, I've never seen it like that. I've always seen it, like, weighing the nosebleeds and, like, you know, out there, and, and so I got to go into the garage in, in the pits and saw. And he got to explain a lot about the pit crew, which I was really interested in, because, like, you know, the physicality, the timing, the, the attention to detail, the focus, like, it's insane. And realizing, too, he's like, I hire a lot of, like, ex pro football players because you need to be a huge physical guy, especially for somebody on the jack, because it's like, you don't have like, a jack where you just, you know, tug it a bunch of times, and it, like, you get, like, one, like, huge torquing. Like, you gotta lift the car up really quick and pop it up. And then the other position is, like, when the guy's fueling it because it moves, and it's this huge amount of fuel that they have to get into the car. And so, like, really physical job and. And. And it's extremely stressful. And watching them at work was just like, freaking magic.

[Sal DeStefano]

Were you close to them doing it?

[Doug]

Like, yeah, it was like, in, like, on the track, like, watching them do all this stuff and. And, you know, and it just. The cars are just so freaking loud and awesome and like, dude, it just. The kids were just like. Their eyes were this big, just walking around like, oh, my God, I can't believe we're doing this, you know?

[Sal DeStefano]

And how fast are those cars? How much horsepower those things pull?

[Justin Andrews]

100. They'll go 180, I think. 180, 200 miles an hour, unwinding.

[Doug]

And so this was a different one. It wasn't the. The circular track. It was, yeah, this full, like, s turns and everything. Like, we. We went there for, you know, trying to. To drive the. The exotic cars that one time. But, yeah, same track. But to watch their strategy, too. This is another part of it that he was kind of breaking down to me was like, the pitting strategy is like, pretty much like the whole basis of the race. Like, them getting that right and, like, timing it and, you know, understanding when the tires need to. To, you know, be switched out and the fuel and, like. And you could. You could hit a window and be awesome. You could just miss that window and be in your last place, you know, and so it just. It was cool because I didn't even, like. I don't understand a lot of what goes into these races, and to see it from that ground floor was just. I can't even really, like, describe how awesome it was.

[Justin Andrews]

It was. It's so cool that you got to do that. And it was just like, how many weeks ago was it when I shared you guys that video that I. I was, like, all fascinated with the pit. The pit times. Yeah, I was like. I was just geeking out on that. I was like, dude, you know, how crazy the evolution of the pit times and they're down to, like, I think A second one. Just barely over a second. That's like, crazy that they can get those guys in and out in that time as well.

[Doug]

And so I got.

[Justin Andrews]

I would love to see that, like, up close. Would total. Been so cool to see that.

[Doug]

It was masterful, you know, to watch them do their thing. And then you'd see, like, there's real, like, conflict and intensity and, like, a car pulled in. And I think I didn't really see what happened, but there was, like, a competing two cars coming at the same time right next to each other and in. For some reason, I think one of the cars went too far forward or whatever. And then the Both pit crews just got all excited and started fighting and, like, physically fighting each other, and they're pulling each other off.

[Justin Andrews]

Well, think about that first.

[Sal DeStefano]

Wait a minute. They were fighting.

[Justin Andrews]

Think about it for a second. If. If a car comes in like that, if they have got this thing down to, I think one and a half seconds or two seconds, say tops, to get you in and out. The. A car coming in and being a foot off where it needs to stop or. Or whatever throws that. It can be off. Every guy has to take a step to the side that he was prepared. Like, that's how, like, prepared they are to go right there. And if that's off by a foot or two because somebody. Somebody else's pit crew did something like. Yeah, you're. You're furious. Especially since so much is on the line for that part of the race. It's like, I would. I would love to see that up close like that.

[Doug]

So intense. So intense.

[Justin Andrews]

To your point, too. I just. I love all sports. I love.

[Sal DeStefano]

I mean, at that level, all competitions just get so insane.

[Justin Andrews]

Well, and that's where you see mastery, like, at the professional level. That close. The. I love. So that's my favorite part about Every sport has that. Every sport has a. A detail about it that you probably don't know really well until someone teaches you or shows you. And then to see that mastery of. They've been doing this for damn near a hundred years or more now, like. And that they have figured this out. Like, that's cool to watch. Yeah, that's so cool. I mean, so jealous. I missed that.

[Sal DeStefano]

Oh, man.

[Doug]

I got to meet the legend himself. The king.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah.

[Doug]

Richard Petty. He owned both. He owned their. Their car and that. That. That group and that team and then another car that was there. But just. I was like, you know, growing up, I. I totally watched him in the STP car. And so it was like, totally Nostalgic for me. And then to see, like, the kids actually, like, really getting into it. I'm like, I don't know, maybe this is a thing for them. Like, it's. It really excited them and they were like, just glued to it.

[Justin Andrews]

So.

[Sal DeStefano]

How loud are those cars?

[Justin Andrews]

Oh, bro, really loud.

[Doug]

But. But only when they're like full blown. Like when they just starting up their engines and everything. Not crazy, but when they're like full speed going through. And like, the best was like when they'd have like the caution flag out and, you know, somebody spin out and then everybody's kind of like pacing and getting back into the group. And so they have like, they're stacked now, like in twos, and they're all like, ready to take off. Then they all take off together. Whoa. Everything just like vibrates and. Oh, my God. I took.

[Sal DeStefano]

I.

[Doug]

You know, I was kind of wearing the ear things. It was funny because I was asking him ahead time, do I need to bring like, protective ear stuff and all this? He's like, do you work out with gloves?

[Sal DeStefano]

I was like, oh, my God, this.

[Doug]

Guy gets it, you know?

[Justin Andrews]

Oh, bro, I was dying. You can't wear him now.

[Doug]

So. Yeah, I felt like such a. At first.

[Justin Andrews]

What a great. What a great.

[Sal DeStefano]

Meanwhile, everybody goes deaf.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, I told them they're loud. They're not as bad as monster trucks are. Monster trucks in like, indoors is like, not like night. That's like deafening and stuff, stuff like that. But they're loud.

[Sal DeStefano]

I saw.

[Doug]

It'll get you.

[Sal DeStefano]

I saw when I was a kid, tractor pulling. Is that what it's called where they. That is the loud.

[Justin Andrews]

That was.

[Sal DeStefano]

That's.

[Justin Andrews]

That's like. Yeah, that and monster trucks, I think, are coliseum, especially if it's closed.

[Sal DeStefano]

I'm like, oh, I remember I was like 12 and I was so excited as soon as they, they, they hit it, man.

[Justin Andrews]

I remember like, ah, yeah, that's another level. I don't know if it's cooler, what you got to do, or that your boys are at such a cool age to see their dad get like, recognized like that by like, other professional sports, you know, like, that's got to be cool.

[Doug]

That did hit me.

[Justin Andrews]

I was going to say that that has to be like. I mean, the experience was cool in itself. Don't. Don't get me wrong. But then, like, because, you know, I know, like, we all know our kids, like, we're not cool to our kids. Like, you're just not. Maybe I get a little bit of that cuz. Mine's six, you know what I'm saying? So I'm still kind of cool, but. But then he wouldn't even know that part right there, so he wouldn't even connect the dots and something like that, so. But they're at that age now where, you know, dad's not that cool, but then to see that and then the get recognized and then people hook you up and all that. I mean, that's.

[Doug]

That bought me a little street cred.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah, for sure.

[Sal DeStefano]

So.

[Doug]

Thanks, Travis.

[Sal DeStefano]

Speaking of kids, I got to ask you guys a question, because this. There seems to be a divide with this. I didn't know that people were different about this. When you're eating food, when you have your food in front of you and your kids want to have some of your food, are you guys okay with it? Is it not a big deal? Is it a big deal? Are you protective? How do you react?

[Justin Andrews]

My son's never done that before.

[Sal DeStefano]

He doesn't want any of your food. He's gonna try any of your food.

[Justin Andrews]

Never even.

[Doug]

I used to have a problem with. But I started to let them try it. Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

I'm always encouraging him to try things. I want him to try things. In fact, I was. I was joking about it last night about ordering something different because he, like, he has his things. He. He likes, and I know it's important. Encourage him.

[Sal DeStefano]

You always order the same thing. Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

So I was trying to. I was trying to get him to do something.

[Sal DeStefano]

Something.

[Justin Andrews]

You know what he did? He's like, I'll do a different dessert. How about that? Like, you just.

[Sal DeStefano]

You just close.

[Doug]

My boys are all competitive now, so they're, like, trying to get all the meat and all the best stuff before I get there. And they've learned, you know, to calm down a bit because I, you know, it's. And I used to have, like, you know, some of that from my dad, like, convey, like, you know, I'm the.

[Justin Andrews]

King of the house.

[Doug]

This is what I get. And, you know, you don't touch this. And, like, I kind of had a little bit of that for a while, and then I was like, you know, I want them to get bigger and eat more protein. I was like, I'll get more food later. I just kind of calmed down with it. But it used to, like.

[Sal DeStefano]

So my wife is funny about. This is where this conversation comes up. If my wife gets food for her or a drink and the kids want it visibly irritates her. She's like, this is mine. I'll get you your own but this is mine.

[Justin Andrews]

That's funny.

[Sal DeStefano]

Now, I am so opposite with this. So opposite. When I have food or if I'm eating or drinking anything and my kids want some, I put them on my lap and we eat it together. And it brings me so much joy. Now, part of the reason why, because it goes back to childhood. When I was a kid, this is how my dad was. This is how my grandfather was. Some of the times that they were most physically affectionate was when they were feeding us off their plate. So for me, it's like, I love doing it. My wife is very. So, yeah, we had friends over, and I brought it up, and it was divided, you know, like, one of them was like, oh, yeah. The other one's like, nobody touched my food. You know what I mean?

[Justin Andrews]

Well, in Jessica's defense, I'm 100% like that. Like, for sure. Like. So Katrina gets upset about this because I'm like, this where if we order something and she goes, oh, and she hears my order, she's like, oh, I'd like to get by to that. I will order her a whole nother. Whole nother plate of that. And then she gets mad when it comes to, like, why'd you want to say you wanted to buy? Have a bite, I'll eat the rest of yours. So I always. I don't want my whatever is. And that. What that is to me is, like, I've decided this is the amount of food that I want to eat.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

And so anything less got to be.

[Sal DeStefano]

The bodybuilder in you.

[Justin Andrews]

Right. I don't even know.

[Sal DeStefano]

50 grams of protein.

[Justin Andrews]

Exactly. I don't know. I don't know what it is, but I definitely have a thing like that. And I'm like, but seriously, if somebody. If a friend or somebody wants a bite or, like, I will buy them the whole meal, so they have it, and I have mine. Now, my son's never picked up my plate, so I haven't. I haven't came across that yet. So it'd be interesting how I went in, because Katrina also thinks that I break all my rules for him. So she's just like, you're so this way with all these things. And then he gets the do whatever.

[Sal DeStefano]

He's my son.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah, I know. That's. Well, you know, I. I call it.

[Doug]

The daddy tax, but I just. If they do that, I just end up eating off their plate, too. So it's kind of back and forth.

[Sal DeStefano]

Well, you know. Well, what's funny is, is it's reflected now back, because if they have something that I want, they'll give it to me. But, mom, sometimes they'll fight me. So I'm like, that's because I always share with them. That's why. Yeah, but I love it. It's. It brings me so much joy. I don't know what it is. I. I do. I do. Again, was my. I have distinct memories of culture.

[Justin Andrews]

That's what you guys grew up with.

[Sal DeStefano]

My grandfather used to do that. Like, he would. He would, hey, come sit on my lap. And then he eat with.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah, that'd be like, Katrina. Katrina's very. Oh. Everyone grabbing each other's food off their plate, and everyone's sharing. Let me try. Oh, you try. I'm like, I'm not like that. I'm like, this is mine. So I connect with Jessica on that. Although I haven't had that. It'd be. It'd be interesting. I'm curious to how I will respond in the moment I see myself not caring with my son. I do. I. I am a way more flexible with him about stuff like that because I'm. I'm mindful of the things that you're saying that you love and sharing, and I don't want to kill that moment for him. And, like, I also want him to try different things, especially if it's a food he hasn't. So. Because that's something that I'm trying to get better about right now, is we can be a bit like same food. Like, we're.

[Sal DeStefano]

We.

[Justin Andrews]

We rotate through the same things about every seven to 14 days, you know, And. And so it's like. So then when I try and get him to do something, he's like, no, I don't want that. I want, you know, the stick or. I want.

[Sal DeStefano]

That's a great point. I. I bet you fitness households do that where they. Where we have the same rotation.

[Justin Andrews]

For sure. I would think so, because, you know, the macros in it. You know, you've trained yourself.

[Sal DeStefano]

These are the three meats we eat. These are the forms of starch we eat. Because we're like that, too.

[Justin Andrews]

Yes.

[Sal DeStefano]

Which I don't mind. I love it.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah, me too.

[Sal DeStefano]

I. I could care less.

[Justin Andrews]

Me too. But I know the.

[Sal DeStefano]

My wife's always like, you want to try? Tip again? I'm like, yeah, make it every day. I don't care. I love. I love try, you know?

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah. Yeah. So, yeah. But I know it's important for the kids to. To have diversity and try different stuff.

[Sal DeStefano]

Different textures, so that they're willing to do that.

[Justin Andrews]

They don't grow up to be like, I only want these three things. That's all I was fed. And it's like, I, I did only feed you that. That's my bad.

[Sal DeStefano]

So I, so I went and looked up studies. Did you guys know that there's studies with Brain FM that actual studies that are done with Brain FM and their. In regards to what I'll tell you. So first off to brain.

[Doug]

Brain focus study. If I.

[Sal DeStefano]

There's one. Yeah, there's that and more. So. So to break it down so for people know, Brain FM uses AI driven algorithms and creates what, what they call as functional music. This is different than binaural beats. They use patented techniques like neural phase locking, 3D spatial audio. The goal is to influence brainwave activity which is aimed at improving the type of performance you're looking for, whether it's sleep or focus or meditation or whatever. Right. So they have some studies, they did a study where they compared Brain FM to music, noise or silence. The results showed mind wandering, improved focus, with participants performing better on sustained attention tasks when they used Brain fm. And then there's EEG evidence. They test EEG activity in the brain showing synchronized brainwave activity in regions associated with attention. So they can actually see it on an EEG? Yeah, when someone's listening to Focus, the EEGs look like a brain that's focused on. They also did FMRI studies that showed increased blood flow to brain regions linked to attention and focus. There's another study that was done in 2024. A 23% reduction in writing errors and the ability to work for three hours without breaks when using their high neural effect level of focus. And there's more. There's one with sleep. Another study showed a 24 to 29% increase in slow wave sleep with people using their sleep music compared to controls. Remarkable.

[Doug]

Yeah, it's really. It works. It's the fact that it's like crazy.

[Sal DeStefano]

What'S cool to me because I like it. I've been using them forever. And by the way, for people listening, you go through our link, you get 30 days. You can try it out for 30 days, you'll see, you'll feel it. What's cool to me though is you can do fmri, so this is an mri, but it's in real time or EEG tests and you can literally test someone, have them listen to something and say, here's the brain and now it's different and it's acting in a way basically.

[Doug]

Watch it change.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yes, it's acting in a way that We've associated with focus or sleep or meditation. And we know this because we'll have other participants. There's lots of studies on this. When people get really focused without using anything, we will measure their brain waves. And we know what a focused brain looks like. In fact, somebody could take you right now, put your brain in FMRI or eeg, and they can predict. They can't predict what you're doing, but they can predict if you're sleeping or you're focused or you're meditating. We know what that looks like. Pretty wild. Pretty wild that you can induce it like that. Now we have studies to show it.

[Justin Andrews]

Do you think this is the same type of science that supports why we've always used song to pass down history? I think that's fascinating. Like, obviously we have the science now to do all this cool stuff and see, but it's like, how wild is it that way? Long ago, before we had effective delivery system. Yeah. That we. That we were. We already knew to do that. I think that's so crazy.

[Sal DeStefano]

Like here.

[Justin Andrews]

It's cool because now we can prove like, yes, we can tell this is what's happening. But it's like, dude, before we could even prove that, we figured out by creating these songs would be a way to pass down history to the next generation. That's crazy.

[Sal DeStefano]

Well, you know, like for before the printing press, books were recited to each other over and over and over again. And some of them with incredible accuracy. And a lot of it was song.

[Doug]

Yep.

[Sal DeStefano]

And it's really how music affects cognition is really interesting. I don't even think we fully have a full, full grasp on it. It lights up the whole brain.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

It does things like right now, my two and a half year old, you ask her to. Actually, I asked you guys. Tell me your ABCs, I guarantee you'll sing it.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah, yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

Nobody in here is going to say their ABCs without singing it.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

That's how we remember all our abc. I know. I got my. My two and a half year old now she's on her own. She'll like be playing and she'll start singing the ABCs. It's the cutest thing.

[Doug]

Well, it's a trip too, because you've seen like that they even found with Neanderthals that they have like a bone harp or like a bone flute, I should say. Yeah, yeah. And it's like, so they had music pretty much since humans existed.

[Sal DeStefano]

You know what's funny about Neanderthals is there's that. There's that like the stereotype of Neanderthals that they're dumb.

[Doug]

Oh, no. Yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

But it turns out they were probably smart. We just killed them, outbreak them and.

[Justin Andrews]

Killed them until we justified it.

[Sal DeStefano]

Better hunters.

[Justin Andrews]

Yes.

[Sal DeStefano]

We're faster and taller.

[Justin Andrews]

Oh, they were dumb.

[Sal DeStefano]

We made better weapons.

[Doug]

Yeah, you and your dumb forehead.

[Sal DeStefano]

They're probably peaceful. You know what I mean?

[Doug]

Cool and chill.

[Justin Andrews]

The first time I ever really see. Saw that, like, really that fascinated was. I think I told you guys this about my. My cousin who homeschools all our kids. And she's. And I. I. She can.

[Sal DeStefano]

She showed this to Jessica, by the way.

[Justin Andrews]

Dude, it is so. And they. That's so. She's homeschooling their whole life, right? So she's got kids that are all that are beyond high school into college now, and they all learn this song. Like the. And they. And every year they build on the song so by the time they're teenagers, they can sing this song. I forgot how many minutes. It's long. It's like 20 minutes long or something long. Yeah, it's just. It's like super long. That they can recite. And it's because they. Every year they build on it, build on it, build on it. And it's. And all it is is is. It's. It's a song of history that just basically tells you all this important thing, all these important years and times and the people that were connected in the wars and all this stuff all through a song. And so. And she even says. She's like, it's so crazy. We'll be watching the History Channel or something like that. And one of the kids will be in the room and they'll just like, spout, oh, that's so and so. And that was in, you know, 1772. And, like, they'll spout off these dates and people and that are important in history. And it's all from that song. I was like, dude, that's so cool.

[Sal DeStefano]

That is so cool. Hey, I gotta. I gotta give you an update on my new. Well, not new, because I've used it before, but my. It's so far. Real quick, just a little disclaimer. I'm not giving anybody investment advice. I'm not in it. Financial advisor. This is just my own personal strategy. It's 100 success. My investment strategy. You know the one where Adam tells me what to buy, but he doesn't buy it? Oh, my God. Dude, it's working out. It's magic, bro. This is how it works, everybody.

[Doug]

Adam says salty about this.

[Sal DeStefano]

Adam says Buy this. But he doesn't buy it. If he buys it, don't get it. If he says buy it and doesn't buy.

[Doug]

You have like, Katrina buy it for you.

[Sal DeStefano]

It's like 10 for 10. It's like 10 for 10.

[Justin Andrews]

I hope my wife actually hears this and does the. Listen to that.

[Doug]

Right?

[Justin Andrews]

So she's. Come on, she'll go by, so she'll be like, don't worry.

[Sal DeStefano]

We were talking about bitcoin, and bitcoin was already high. It was like 110, I think it was.

[Justin Andrews]

No, it was even that. It was just over. Or 100. Over 100.

[Sal DeStefano]

Is that 120 or something like that right now? And I'm like, oh, you know what? I'm buying some. He's like, yeah, you should. I'm like, are you gonna buy some? He's like, nah. I'm like, okay, I bought a bunch of it.

[Justin Andrews]

Double down. I'm so. I'm just. I'm super bitter about the whole coin thing because I've lost all mine, you know, so. And because you never. You forgot your past. So. And I just asked who was I talking to? Somebody else who's got coins now.

[Doug]

Go. California's gonna own it, right?

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah. I had. I had XRP somebody. I had xrp, Cardone, Ethereum and something else. I had like four or five coins. And, you know, it wasn't crazy amount of money, but.

[Sal DeStefano]

But it was money.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah, it was money. And it'd be a decent. It would be a decent amount right now. And so I've have not been able to get into it. I've tried so many things that my brother, who's a hacker, tried to get him to do it. Like, no. And now that new law that passed in California, it's like, it's good.

[Sal DeStefano]

How funny is that that they can get it, but they can't give it to you, the guy that owns it.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah. Bit weird, huh? Yeah. That's why I don't try. That's why that's my reluctancy.

[Doug]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

To get them, giving them 100k for us, everything right now, it's just like. I mean, obviously I'm kicking myself for not doing it. When I thought about it back at 25, too. So there was two times so far that I've, like, felt really passionate about it. 25k. And then at 100k those times, I've actually, actually really felt passionate about doing something. And I'm like, we should do it. We should do it. And then I don't do it. But I. What keeps me from doing that is knowing that I got screwed on my other coins. And so I'm just so nervous of that.

[Sal DeStefano]

So.

[Justin Andrews]

And I know there's a bunch of.

[Sal DeStefano]

How much do you think you'd have right now on the ones you owned? Am I going to feel like pain right now?

[Justin Andrews]

No. No, I don't. Well, so I had about $5,000 in that, and to give you an example, XRP, I bought it at 93 cents or something. I think it's like 270 right now, so.

[Sal DeStefano]

So that would have more than doubled.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

Okay.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah. So it's like 15 grand, probably. That'd probably be a good guess.

[Sal DeStefano]

Total still sucks.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah. Yeah, no, of course it sucks. It was mine.

[Sal DeStefano]

It's a vacation.

[Justin Andrews]

Yes, it's mine. You know, saying or some wheels.

[Sal DeStefano]

People listening right now are so mad.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah. So whatever. But now I'm all sour about it, so I'm all reluctant to. To do it. But, I mean, watching you have success with it is. At least someone's winning. Yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

Oh, that's nice. That's nice. You get to live vicariously.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

I do that with you all the time.

[Justin Andrews]

I know you do, too.

[Sal DeStefano]

Every time you get a nice car.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah. So you do.

[Sal DeStefano]

I show everybody else. Look at this car my friend got.

[Justin Andrews]

I tell everybody about your stock portfolio.

[Sal DeStefano]

Look how good we're doing.

[Justin Andrews]

Look how Sal's doing over here. What about you? Don't. Never mind me. Don't worry about it.

[Sal DeStefano]

Anyway, I found a study on cbg, one of the cannabinoids in the hemp plant. Reduced fat in the heart.

[Justin Andrews]

Interesting.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah. Reduced fat in the heart.

[Doug]

Specifically the heart.

[Sal DeStefano]

The heart, yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

This just. This has to be more reasons why they connected the dots with. Remember. Remember, like the. The. You would assume because weed gives you the munchies that you were. We have all these obese people that do it, and that just doesn't pan out.

[Sal DeStefano]

No. People that use. I'm not. We're not going to advocate using cannabis for this reason, but it's really weird that people who use cannabis regularly have lower rates of diabetes and tend to be less obese.

[Justin Andrews]

This has to be what's connected to it, though, right? There's gotta be something to do with that.

[Sal DeStefano]

Something. And there's some insulin sensitivity effects that some studies show with cannabinoids improving, that it improves. I know. I have family members that use Ned religiously. Like, I'll get a message from them. In fact, I have Jerry mail it to them for more Ned. And they use it for pain. But they also tell me when I use it, my blood sugar numbers come back better. So probably has something to do with that, I would imagine, because it's true. Like cannabis. And cannabis has all these cannabinoids in it, but it also has thc. Ned doesn't have thc, so. But it has all the other cannabinoids. Cannabis makes you want to eat. So it's always weird when they do all these studies. They say, well, they have lower rates of diabetes and they're less obese.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

Like they're supposed to move less and eat more.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

Which, you know, because it makes you more lazy and it makes you want to eat more. And yet what's going on here, I've.

[Justin Andrews]

Always thought that was interesting.

[Sal DeStefano]

Well, to the tune of this. Look, for people who are like, this sounds crazy. It's not. Look at the pharmaceutical research on cannabinoids and diabetes. There's actual studies going on. I don't know if they're going on now. I know they were about six years ago, last time I checked, that they're studying cannabinoids as a potential treatment, maybe in addition to other treatments for things like diabetes because of its effects on blood sugar.

[Justin Andrews]

Have you. I mean, we used to remember early on we were interested mainly because I know I just had came out of it and you were still researching and paying attention a lot. Do you pay attention to that. That market or anything anymore? Like, I don't really pay attention to it. Like, I used to.

[Sal DeStefano]

Like, no, I don't.

[Justin Andrews]

Where the laws are at and where. I mean, like, there seemed a time like, like, man, any minute now, we're gonna start seeing this in grocery stores everywhere.

[Doug]

Yeah. There was talk that they were going to try to reschedule it. I don't know if that's still on the table or not, but I had heard that.

[Justin Andrews]

And you had some states that were already starting to pass it for. To where you can just have.

[Sal DeStefano]

Some states are going back now, too.

[Justin Andrews]

Oh, really?

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah. Some states are like, starting to think that maybe we shouldn't have this legalized, you know, so here's the truth. Cannabis, if it's legalized, more people will use it. So this is a fact. More people are going to use it. If it's legalized, what are the plus signs of it? It doesn't go black market as much. You have tax revenue. Adults should have the freedom to blah, blah, blah. But more people will use it. That's true. I think the belief what was promoted was if it's Legalized, more people aren't going to use it. A lot of people already use it. I thought that that's not true. Now we see the data. As soon as it gets legalized, way more people end up using it. And that comes with its own problems. THC in particular, I mean, where do you stand psychoactive?

[Justin Andrews]

Where do you personally stand on it then?

[Sal DeStefano]

I think, I think it should be. I think they should keep it legalized, but I think it should be regulated, of course.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah, it has to.

[Sal DeStefano]

And I think it should have to.

[Justin Andrews]

When you compare it. So if you're going to be pro caffeine, pro alcohol, pro pornography, if the. You can get all those things, access to those things are all, in my opinion, far more dangerous.

[Sal DeStefano]

I think all of those should be regulated. I think including pornography, I think should be regulated for adults only. But I do see, I do cannabis use is associated. THC in particular or specifically is associated with psychiatric issues. So you're seeing a high, you know, rise in schizophrenia and anxiety and stuff like that.

[Doug]

It is, it is a bit. A lot.

[Justin Andrews]

It's not benign.

[Doug]

I got, you know, before that I was like very, you know, I guess less like regulations. But then I start to see the usage of it in schools and with kids is. Is so prevalent, it's everywhere. And then they're all vaping and it's a real problem that they need to really like think about that and, and how that's trickled down. But I mean, for the 21, you know, keeping it 21 just like anything else, like, that's kind of where I'm at with it, making sure like that's a rigid standard.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah. And you do see there may be lower uses of alcohol, but some studies show that people just use both, which is not good. So it's like, it's like people are like, cool, I'll do both. I'll smoke.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

And I'll drink alcohol. That's not.

[Justin Andrews]

You had to wonder too, that I wonder if it's like it peaks and then it kind of levels out. Like when it's. When it's kind of novel right now new to be able to do it. And then I already feel like that's already kind of came down. Like, like I don't like it felt like for a minute there I was like everybody, everybody was talking. Whether it was talking to me about getting involved with it on the business side or interested. Is it something I could use is to going it good for me. Like that's really calm.

[Sal DeStefano]

Did you see that Carnival cruises, they Used to let people smoke like weed and vape on, on deck because they're out in the sea or whatever. Now they're like, no more. They will not allow it anymore.

[Justin Andrews]

Really?

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah, they passed a bunch of new.

[Justin Andrews]

Rules because all the diarrhea.

[Sal DeStefano]

No, it was because of all the fighting and they got bad publicity. But people. So they pass all these rules. One of them is like, no more weed on deck. Which is.

[Justin Andrews]

That's weird.

[Sal DeStefano]

I know we probably not causing the fighting though.

[Justin Andrews]

Almost certainly.

[Sal DeStefano]

I'm sure it's the alcohol, but have.

[Justin Andrews]

You ever been around a group of dudes that listen, get high, then go fight? Like that's never happened, but drinking that. Oh yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

Besides the Diaz brothers, I don't know anybody that smokes weed.

[Justin Andrews]

Yes. It's not common. Like most people chill out after they have weed. I don't know. That's. That's weird.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah. I think they're trying to get a certain demographic. Sure. Not to show up is what it is. Make it less attractive.

[Justin Andrews]

That makes sense.

[Sal DeStefano]

Zebiotics is a pre alcohol probiotic drink that is the world's first genetically engineered probiotic. You take it before you drink alcohol. And those friendly bacteria have been designed to break down acetaldehyde in your gut. What does that mean? You drink it before you drink. You feel way better. It really works. Check it out and try it out for yourself. Go to zbiotics.com that's Z B I O T I C S.com mindpump25. The code mindpump25 will get you 15% off. Back to the show.

[Adam Schaefer]

Our first caller is Porter from Colorado.

[Sal DeStefano]

What's up, Porter?

[Justin Andrews]

How you doing, Porter?

[Doug]

Hello.

[Caller]

Hi, how's it going?

[Sal DeStefano]

Good man. How can we help you?

[Caller]

Well, first of all, I just wanted to say thank you. I've been a long time listener, first time caller, and you guys have really, you know, changed, I think fitness as a whole. So I think it's really wonderful the way you guys present it.

[Sal DeStefano]

Thank you.

[Caller]

To get into my question, I'm just kind of curious on how I can heal my relationship with food. I struggle with like, you know, high stress situations, some emotional eating, and I, I have a fear that the answer is to work out a little bit less. But I currently I work out like seven to 10 hours a week following Maps performance, getting about three, three workouts a week on the mobility side and three of the lifts. And then cardio is typically like three to four times a week. And two of those are like outdoor mountain biking or like going for A trail run or something.

[Sal DeStefano]

Okay. And so what's the issue with your. With food? Let's get more specific.

[Caller]

I would just say, like, historically, like some disordered, like binging or like, I've been working with a coach, like an eating recovery coach for the last year and was able to break free from some, like, I can enjoy more foods often, but, like, when things are stressful, I definitely can turn to food to handle that stress.

[Sal DeStefano]

What, what kind of things have you guys done together over the last year? That's helped, really?

[Caller]

The whole process has just been working through intuitive eating, eating when, eating when I'm hungry, stopping when I'm full, and then going through that process. You know, we've used some techniques like rain and other things to kind of handle that to cope a little bit more appropriately.

[Doug]

So has it.

[Sal DeStefano]

Has it made a difference for you?

[Caller]

I would say in terms of being able to enjoy more foods, but still really struggling to kind of find, like. Like when I use the tracker, I'm able to say, like, okay, this is where I need to stop or where I need to be versus listening a little bit more intuitively is more challenging.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah, I hear you. By the way, it's very difficult thing to. To work on. You know, you mentioned binge eating, for example. It's. It's a very disconnected to your body way of eating. Right. Because you're eating beyond what your. The body signals are telling you. So some of the techniques that you're talking about that you've done with the coach that you have is to bring more awareness to how you actually feel. I'd like to go back, though, and talk a little bit about your history and what may have led to this kind of dysfunctional, for lack of a better term, relationship with food. So tell me a little bit about your past.

[Caller]

Yeah, so I would say, like, I was a collegiate wrestler and wrestled all the way through high school and college and exercised a lot. In the beginning it was. I had to eat a lot to make weight, to gain weight because I was wrestling up. And then as I moved into college, I was eating less and manipulating my weight more for sport. And then as a child, I think food was just always a comfort as something to turn to when things were difficult.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah, no, I hear you. How old are you?

[Caller]

I'm 25.

[Sal DeStefano]

So you're not that long out of the college days. When did you graduate? How old were you?

[Caller]

I was 23 when I took early retirement from wrestling due to injury. And then I graduated last year and I'm in my career now.

[Sal DeStefano]

So, Porter, you've only been out of this lifestyle for two years and this was something that you did for most of the time you were growing up, right? High school. You're a teenage, you're adolescent, and you're becoming a young man. Up and through, all the way up through 23 years old and wrestling. Making weight encourages disconnection. In fact, it served you well. You were able to make weight, right? Like there was a purpose behind disconnecting from your body's signals. Because if you didn't, you're not going to be able to eat enough to gain weight. And then later, if you didn't, you're not going to be able to restrict enough to make weight. That's just the sport that you were in. So you actually had to learn through years and years and years of practice to disconnect from very strong signals that your body sends out. Hunger signals, satiety signals. Those are all very natural signals. But what you did is you trained yourself to the point where that is now your default. Okay? Now the reason why I'm saying this, Porter, is because I want you to cut yourself some slack. You're only two. You're only actually a year into this, what you're working on. You've only been working with somebody intently on this for one year. But the previous, you know, 10, 12 years, 13 years, you were intently working on the opposite. I think you're moving in the right direction. It's just going to take time and it's going to feel like a struggle. It's not going to happen in a few months. It's going to take you years. And now the good news is you're going to, you're going to move forward that entire time. There's going to be some backsliding, but. And it's gonna feel more challenging. The backsliding is gonna feel worse than it should because now you're aware, right? Whereas before you might binge and it's like, eh, you know, you don't even think about it. Whereas now when you do, you're like, oh man, there it is. There's that thing I'm doing. Oh, there it is. There's that thing I'm doing. Every time you disconnect from your body's signals, that's the beginning of awareness. The beginning of awareness is being aware of, of the dysfunction. And you're only a year into it. Keep moving in the direction you're moving. Keep working with somebody who's going to help coach you through this process. You're going to come out, you're going to come out better at the other end. But you got to give your cut yourself some slack. And I'm telling you this because I know that you're probably like down on yourself when you take a couple steps back, like, oh, why is this still happening? But this is like, I mean it's not, you're not going to erase it in a short period of time at all.

[Justin Andrews]

Does the coach or the counselor have you doing exercises like say journaling before you eat or after you eat? Do you do stuff like that at all? Have you tried?

[Caller]

Yeah, I would say like after a binge, like I definitely will try and dive into it. What caused it, what brought this on, and then beforehand probably not so much. I think it's more like that racy behavior.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah.

[Caller]

So it's kind of, you know, it would be beneficial to stop. But is the most challenging like, you know, in the middle of the work day or whatnot?

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah, I mean I feel like even if you just had like a little journal and it could be as short as three words, you know, just before and or after I ate, just trying to bring awareness to that moment. Like of course, you know, when you binge and you overdo it, then it's like, okay, now I'm trying to unpack versus every time I go to eat, like, what am I feeling? Am I hungry right now? Am I just tired right now? Did I just get in a fight with somebody? And so I'm here like really trying to connect the dots to those moments when you decide to eat what you're going through or what you're feeling. And it's just all that, all that exercise is really doing is bringing awareness to all those moments and maybe give you more insight on some of your like pre triggers. Like what are some of the things that like, are in common with these moments where you have this urge to want to overeat or vice versa? Right under eat what happened in your day. Just say right before that and maybe you can start to connect the dots of like, oh, wow, that's interesting. Somebody made this comment to me and now I'm also wanting to do this on this next meal. I wonder if there's something there.

[Sal DeStefano]

Now let me add to this, Porter. Here's what happens when you bring awareness to something. It feels worse. So, so, so it's. That's what makes it so hard is it feels worse. I also want to add a little disclaimer. Too much self focus leads to depression. Okay. So if you're always thinking about this. If you're always studying yourself, if you're always thinking about your feelings, that's called depression. Especially for men. Especially for men. So here's the remedy for that. You want to try to be other focused more often. What do I mean by that? I don't mean look at other people and judge them. That's not what I mean. I mean do things and sacrifice for other people. That's the remedy for the challenges that come with self awareness. Otherwise this is going to lead you to depression. And then what that's going to do is make you go in the other direction. You'll be like screw this, I'm done. And I'm just going to go back to what I was doing before. So what does that look like? It could look like coaching someone else in fitness. It could look like you're a part of a group where you help other people with a similar issue. It could look like volunteer work. It could look like anything that is self sacrificing and other focused is profoundly beneficial for mental state. Because again if you become too. If it's all about me, how do I feel right now? How am I feeling while I'm eating? How am I. What's happening? Why did I do that? Depressed. You're going to be depressed. That's like the, the hallmark of depression. So you got to balance it out. So come up with things that you could do that are other focused for other people that have nothing to do with. Let me think about myself. To bring yourself some joy. And then in the meantime take your counselors coaching. And I wouldn't do any more than that because they know what they're doing.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah, hopefully. I mean we're over here throwing shots at the dartboard right now, but hopefully this counselor is having this type of a conversation.

[Sal DeStefano]

They're an expert on this, right?

[Caller]

Yeah, they are. Yep.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah. 100.

[Justin Andrews]

This is who we learn from. So this is. I mean they're, they're, they. And they know you better. We, we've been talking for five minutes and we're trying to get give good advice. Hopefully the best advice is probably to stick to whatever your counselor.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

What do you is telling you?

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah. So you're really into fitness. Yeah. Do you, do you work in the fitness space or do you do something else?

[Caller]

I had a in person training business in, in college and then uh, I transitioned a couple of those clients online with me that I've been able to work with. But I'm currently in like a sales role.

[Sal DeStefano]

Distribution. You know what might be good I'm just a suggestion. There's a lot of ways to do this, but would be to find people that struggle with some of the stuff and just volunteer your time to help them and genuinely try to help them. That'll be the other focus. That would be like an example of the other focus thing that could help you. So it's not so, because you're probably experiencing, especially if you're a smart guy, is there's so much focus on me that, oh, my God, I feel like crap. Oh, this keeps happening. Why am I doing this? Let me just think about myself and how I feel all the time. And then that's just dark. It just gets real dark real fast. So I would take the counselor's advice. Don't do more than that. Try to enjoy your workouts. Try not to be too obsessed about them, but also try not to obsess about doing, you know, that I'm doing too much type of deal.

[Justin Andrews]

That is something.

[Sal DeStefano]

Cut yourself some slack.

[Justin Andrews]

That is something. We didn't really address that much. I think you. You even alluded to kind of like already knowing that that is. It'd be interesting to see if a lot. That as much as you're training and moving is also ramping up the cravings and the appetite and making it even more difficult for yourself too. So maybe like, lowering the intensity. I don't know what your intensity looks like, just maybe not necessarily cutting you back.

[Sal DeStefano]

Oh, I guarantee his intensity is high if he wrestled right most of his life.

[Justin Andrews]

So, like, if, if, if you're already struggling with this, like, binge desire. And because I know when I really push my body physically, then I get cravings. Like, my body's going, I need more fuel, faster. And that just makes the resisting the binging part even more difficult. And so maybe pulling back potentially for a while, the intensity on the training, like, not saying, I'm not going to tell you to stop going or stop doing things. Just like, pull back on the. Like, don't be trying to crush yourself in your workouts if you do that.

[Doug]

Yeah, I mean, and you're doing performance and you're kind of like back in that kind of athlete mind. It might serve you a bit to kind of shift that and try a different focus training wise, you know, and, like, get a different type of stimulus so it doesn't put you back in that wrestling mode where, you know, your brain's just constantly there, like, I'm getting ready for something. It's more just benefiting your body somehow.

[Sal DeStefano]

So overall, I tell you what. This is the most important part. Porter, I think you're moving, actually, I don't think. I know you're moving in the right direction. You're working with a professional.

[Doug]

Yeah, you're doing the right.

[Sal DeStefano]

You're moving in the right direction, bro. You're probably being a little too hard on yourself, and I think you're doing great, dude. And look at. Take a step back. Look at everything from a thousand feet and look at how you trained yourself for so long versus the last year. Like, yeah, dude, yeah, it's going to be. It's going to be hard for sure. But don't focus too much on how. What you're not doing right now, because that's. That I don't think is the right direction. I think you should look at everything, say, oh, man, I was. Okay. I'm moving in the right direction. That was a long time where I just disconnected. And it served me well in college. Got me to. To wrestle at a college level, but now it's not serving me anymore, so I just got to move in a different direction. It's a new journey, that's all. You know, it's like, imagine if a young wrestler came to you and they're like, man, I've been wrestling for a year and I keep getting my butt kicked. What are you going to tell them? Well, yeah, it's your first year, bro. Everybody gets their ass kicked for the first year. Just keep going. You know what I mean?

[Caller]

Sure, yeah. No, this is. Provide a lot of great insights. I appreciate your time and, yeah, it's been very helpful. Thank you.

[Sal DeStefano]

You're gonna do good, dude. You're only 25.

[Justin Andrews]

You're doing good.

[Sal DeStefano]

You're gonna do really good, bro. Just don't be so hard on yourself, all right?

[Caller]

Sounds good. I appreciate it.

[Sal DeStefano]

You got it, brother.

[Caller]

All right.

[Sal DeStefano]

People don't. People don't understand wrestling. No, it's like, top.

[Justin Andrews]

That was like my top one for men. Oh, yeah, men. That's top. And then probably what pageants or model type stuff for women I'd say would be the top. So those are the top two.

[Sal DeStefano]

The reason. The reason why wrestlers tend to dominate in mixed martial arts is because for decades, you learn how to take a beating.

[Doug]

You can just.

[Justin Andrews]

You.

[Sal DeStefano]

You become a robot. It's. The workouts are ridiculous. Wrestling itself is insane. And then you starve yourself to make weight and you know how to shut it off. Then what?

[Justin Andrews]

Ha.

[Sal DeStefano]

It's like a. It's like a soldier in war who then comes to live. I mean, I know that's more extreme. Yeah. Now, Now I'm a. Now I'm a civilian, you know, I'm not wrestling anymore. I'm a civilian. How do I live this way? It's a new life. It's very difficult. Takes time.

[Justin Andrews]

The fact that he has the awareness to get a counselor and a coach to this.

[Doug]

He's on top of that.

[Sal DeStefano]

That.

[Doug]

Which is awesome.

[Justin Andrews]

Which, I mean, I found myself after. We're like seeing. I'm like, okay, what are we doing here? Like, we've known the guy for five minutes and trying to give him advice. Yeah. He's working with the next one.

[Doug]

And the other thing, the biggest move.

[Sal DeStefano]

And the other thing I want to add too, and this is more especially true for men, is too much self focus. Too much focus on my feelings. Too much that is not helpful. That turns into depression.

[Justin Andrews]

Well, which might be why. Again, that's what I meant. Like, that might be why the counselor is not telling him to do that yet.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yep.

[Justin Andrews]

Like you're not there yet.

[Adam Schaefer]

Our next caller is Steve from the uk.

[Sal DeStefano]

Steve, what's happening?

[Justin Andrews]

What's going on? Steve, what's up?

[Caller]

Oh, yeah, nice to meet you.

[Sal DeStefano]

Same.

[Justin Andrews]

How you doing?

[Sal DeStefano]

Can we help you?

[Caller]

So I've just started the Maps power lift program. Not for competing, just merely putting on a bit of size and getting stronger. I've always had an issue with the straight bar when squatting. So I was just wondering if I swapped that out for a second safety squat bar, would I see any different type of results or any benefits, maybe?

[Sal DeStefano]

I got two. I'll give you two answers. It is slightly different. It's. It's more. It's closer to a front squat than a back squat. Not quite.

[Doug]

A front squat loads the front a little bit more.

[Sal DeStefano]

You're gonna get more quad than posture than you and more core than you will from a back squat. It's not a bad exercise if you want to do that instead of great exercise.

[Doug]

Perfect for sound exercise.

[Sal DeStefano]

Now the other answer I have is to figure out why you can't hold the bar behind your back. And why do you get. And usually that has to do with thoracic rotation, shoulder and scapular mobility. And so what I would do is work on those things because you should be able to. Guy like you, strong dude, working out, you know, young, you should be able to hold on to the bar and squat. And the fact that you can't tells me there's an issue. And if we ignore it, it's going to get worse.

[Caller]

So, yeah, so, yeah, it's Always been my shoulder mobility. I always have upper back issues as well, like any overhead press. So obviously, like in most guys, mobility is something that I've never really focused on. It's just going in and lifting weights.

[Sal DeStefano]

You know, but yeah, no, I hear you. Okay, so this is what we're going to do. Do you have Prime Pro?

[Caller]

No.

[Sal DeStefano]

Let me send that to you. This is an a simple fix. I want you to pick two or three shoulder and scapular mobility movements and I want you to practice them a few times a day. Every day? Every day. And that should make a difference. It's going to take time, but it'll make a difference. Because here's the deal. If you lose the ability to overhead press, it's gone. You don't want to lose that. And you can, you can develop round looking delts by and still not have good overhead press ability. Trust me, I've seen bodybuilders and physique competitors can't even do a total overhead press. But it is not going to serve you moving forward. Like that's a fundamental movement you don't want to lose.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah. For the time being, the safety squat bar is awesome. Great way still for you to build strength. It's got benefits to it. Very similar, even though it's different. But if you're a client of mine, we have to start working on this now because this is just going to get worse and worse as you get bigger, stronger and older. And so this is definitely something that we, we would want to address for sure.

[Sal DeStefano]

By the way, I had this issue. I know Adam has communicated the same issue. And it took me a year of working on it and it's, it became profoundly better to the point where I could do behind the neck presses and pull downs. Okay. But it was a year of practice. So it's just like I said, we'll send you Prime Pro. You'll have the movements, you practice them a couple times a day, every day, and you'll see some improvements.

[Caller]

Okay, lovely. Thank you very much. I will do that.

[Sal DeStefano]

You got it, my friend.

[Caller]

Cool. Thanks, guys.

[Sal DeStefano]

It reminds me, I don't want to say too much, I don't want to call anybody out, but we had somebody come here once to do some work for us and they were again, I don't want to say too much, but they were professionals in terms of how they built their bodies. So very shredded the whole deal. And all they had to do was a overhead press with dumbbells.

[Justin Andrews]

Couldn't do it.

[Sal DeStefano]

Okay. They couldn't fully extend their Arms above their head and if you looked at them, you'd see muscle, you'd see definition. Yeah, but they couldn't do this like basic thing. I mean it wasn't like a, an overhead squat. We weren't asking them to do like a deep ass squat or a snatch. It was just pushing something overhead with full extension they couldn't do. Yeah, so you don't want to lose that.

[Adam Schaefer]

Our next caller is Eric from Texas.

[Sal DeStefano]

Eric, what's up man?

[Justin Andrews]

How you doing Eric?

[Caller]

Hey guys, how are you?

[Justin Andrews]

Good.

[Sal DeStefano]

How can we help you?

[Caller]

I am a 60 year old man, roughly 5 10, 211 pounds. Body fat from my digital scale says about 18.5%. I've been working off or working out off and on for years and years and years. Probably the last year I've gotten a little more serious. So currently I strength train 45 to 50 minutes a day, 45 times a week. Also average about 11,000 steps a day. That said, I signed up with an online trainer, told him I wanted to be at about 12 to 15% body fat, look a little more muscular. So I want to keep my, my muscle like to lose some of my belly fat. He put me on a 2000 calorie diet which is 210 protein, 120 carbs, 76 fat. My weight is down from roughly 2 16, 217 to this morning was 211 in about five weeks. I signed up with him like June 1st. He's online in California. Don't know him. But lately the first three or four weeks were going great. I work out Monday through Friday and then take Saturday and Sunday off. It's a push, pull legs workout. But lately I've been, you know, pretty tired, dragging like the first three or four weeks it seemed like all five days I could hit it, hit it hard. Felt great. The last two weeks, by Thursday, Friday, I'm starting to kind of drag a little bit. And really last Friday I kind of took literally the workout was about 10, 15 minutes. And then I took off of course Saturday and Sunday just to recover and rest. So my question is, after listening to your podcast for months and months and months, I'm thinking after listening to you guys, my calories are way too low. But I wanted your thoughts.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah, good, good intuition. What were your calories at before you. Do you know where they were at before you cut them down to 2000?

[Caller]

I didn't really track them that close. But I look back because I mean I do put them into my fitness pal. I don't do it every day, but it seemed like they were around 25, 20, 600.

[Sal DeStefano]

Okay.

[Caller]

And he put me at 2,000. And like I said, the first three or four weeks, it didn't hurt me, didn't affect me. I was losing weight. Now she seems like I'm just.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah, you know.

[Sal DeStefano]

Did you, when you started the cut, did you also just kind of have a little bit more intention, intensity, consistency with your workout? Sometimes people do that, like, oh, I'm trying to get leaner. I'm going to get more consistent, more serious. In other words, did you ramp that up a little bit?

[Justin Andrews]

Yes.

[Sal DeStefano]

Big time mistake. Yeah. So that's a, that's a very common.

[Justin Andrews]

Mistake, especially in conjunction with a 2000 calories.

[Sal DeStefano]

When you do a cut, you don't also increase your activity because you're just now that's. You're burning the candle at both ends type of deal. So there's two things I would do with you if you were my client, and it's all based on how you feel. Three, four weeks. I feel good now. I'm dragging ass. This is what we're gonna do. We're gonna do a week at 2,500 calories, and we're gonna cut down your workouts this week and only gonna do three. And then next week we'll go back up to four workouts a week. We're not gonna go to five, and we'll start the cut again and see how you feel. It's gonna be this give and take based on how we feel. Because here's what's gonna happen. You could push through this, but you might get sick, injured, you just feel like crap. It's like, okay, I'm doing this to improve my quality of life. I feel like garbage. Why am I doing this type of deal? So. And you haveyou have a lot of muscle, Eric, at 60 years old, at your weight, body fat percentage, like, you're, you carry a lot of muscle. You're doing great. I think you should just listen to your body. So right now you probably should bump your calories 500 and reduce the, the workouts. I think five days a week with a cut is too much with strength training.

[Caller]

Do you. When you say increase calories, is it because I'm doing roughly on the protein side, right. One gram per one pound of body fat. I'm hitting 210. Is it the carbs or the fat or does it matter?

[Sal DeStefano]

Both. I'd bump them both.

[Justin Andrews]

Both. Yeah, I think. And you go how you feel like sometimes bump a little bit more in Carbs. Other days, bump a little bit more in of front fat and pay attention to what makes you feel better, both satiety and energy wise, because both of them can go up a little bit from where you're at. You know, I would have from day one, I actually wouldn't have cut you. This is a typical kind of like trainer move. You just hire me, you say you want to lose belly fat. Just cut calories to show you some results. And you did exactly. You got some results. Problem is it's short and you hit a plateau and then now feel the way you do. A much better strategy would have been right out the gates. Reverse dieting you because a guy with as much muscle and size as you have and also going to be training five days a week, 2, 500 calories is low. You would want, you want to be up over 3, 000 calories. And then when we cut, we cut down to 25, 2700 calories and you lose body fat.

[Sal DeStefano]

It feels like a longer process, but it sets you up to be in a better place at the end.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah, you'll feel, you'll, you'll feel better. You'll feel like you're eating more, you'll have more energy. It'll be easier in the long run. It'll, you know, it seems like it's the longer path because you're like, hey, I want to lose my belly fat. And I'm like, hey, I want you to eat more calories. And you're like, what?

[Doug]

That seems backwards.

[Justin Andrews]

It seems okay.

[Caller]

Yeah. And it really kind of rings true. Also, I think what one of you three were talking about on the recent podcast I was listening to is, you know, one of the signs, I guess is sleep. And my sleep used to be about seven hours a day in the last.

[Justin Andrews]

Three or four weeks.

[Caller]

I average because I track with my Ora ring and Garmin. It's, I'm sleeping like six hours and 10 minutes gone down. Restfulness has gone up.

[Justin Andrews]

Yep, yep.

[Sal DeStefano]

It's over. Training and your workouts, because you've been working out for so long, the amount of muscle you have, they're probably pretty intense. I mean you're probably kind of getting after it and getting a good workout.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

And you're, you've cut your calories plus you've probably ramped them up. And they were already probably pretty good before. So now you ramp them up a little bit because you have this intention to get leaner. It's just too much. It's just too much now. And the signs now we're telling you. So if you literally, if you took.

[Justin Andrews]

I mean, I'd love to put them on Maps. Anabolic. Can we just send them over to Maps? I mean, well, you're. I don't know how. You know, trainers, sometimes they get super.

[Sal DeStefano]

Is he giving you a workout too, or just diet?

[Caller]

No, he gave me the workout, which. Which was another deal, Sal. You were talking about the intensity. Because my workouts I've done for the last three years on my own was just one body part. I'd do chess one day, arms one day. And he has me doing. You know, like today I did back and buys. Yesterday was chest and tries tomorrow's shoulders and abs. And so I think the, you know, two body parts every day is really starting to kick my butt five days a week.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah. So what happened is your volume went up a lot then versus and your calories went down.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah. Volume up, intensity up and calories down is a recipe for getting.

[Sal DeStefano]

You're going to get over trained.

[Justin Andrews]

Everything that's happened is exactly what probably should have happened. You lost a little bit of weight initially because you ramped up all the extra activity with the calorie cut. Then eventually your body starts talking to you and says, okay, this is low.

[Sal DeStefano]

I got it, Eric. Let's speed up this process. So I'm gonna send you maps Anabolic. Follow that workout. It's three days a week. Three full body workouts a day. Okay. Excuse me. A week. That's it. I'm also gonna send you our. I think it's called our recovery guide. Is that it? It's the one for help, like you do a week and you get your body. Okay, I'm gonna send you rescue recovery guide the next week. Follow the rescue recovery guide. So you're not gonna work out, but you're gonna do something every day to speed up this process because you're in the overtrained state. And don't worry, you're not gonna lose muscle or anything like that. You'll just start getting good sleep and start feeling good again. And then after that week, start Maps Anabolic. And I would have you bump your calories for the next couple weeks before attempting a cut again. If you wanna do this longer term, I would slowly increase the calories over time till you get to a point where you're like, wow, I'm eating a lot of food. And then cut. That's the other option.

[Justin Andrews]

I mean, I bet you could go right back up to 2500 with a good balance, so long as you make good Choices as far as hitting your protein intake, eating whole foods, you can go right back up to 2500 and be fine.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah. So this next week you're going to do the recovery guide. After that map's anabolic and I think you'll see your body will really start to respond. Well, that's awesome. Yeah, Yep.

[Justin Andrews]

Great.

[Caller]

Awesome. Can I ask you one more quick, quick question?

[Sal DeStefano]

Of course.

[Caller]

How do you, what are your thoughts on visceral fat? I had a DEXA body scan. It did say I had good muscle and good bone strength and all sorts of stuff, but it's not my visceral fat, which I think, you know, always thought, oh, I've got some really strong abs, but I think it's visceral fat because it feels a little kind of hard to push in. So I was like, look at these abs. And I thought, I don't think those are abs. So what's the, is, is there, what do you, what's your advice on visceral fat? Like, is it, is there any easy way or certain way to get rid of it?

[Sal DeStefano]

You're doing all the right stuff. So strength training, staying active, eating healthy, maintaining insulin sensitivity is important for that. Are you on hormone replacement therapy?

[Caller]

Yeah, I'm on trt.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah.

[Caller]

But I do think sal what hurt it was. I've quit drinking for the most part six months ago. But for the prior 10, 15 years I was married and I drank red wine four or five nights a week. And I think that probably contributed to it. I assume it did.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yep.

[Justin Andrews]

For sure.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yep. Yep. That makes a big difference. And you could, there's, you know, there's peptides you can look at that help with visceral body fat, but at the end of the day it's, you know, what gets you leaner.

[Justin Andrews]

Eric, how long, how long have you been on the replacement therapy for? How long?

[Caller]

A year and a half.

[Justin Andrews]

Okay. Yeah, yeah. By the way, knowing that too most certainly would have bumped calories. One of the, one of the, one of the beautiful benefits of hormone therapy is you're not at the normal whims of ups and downs of testosterone like most men are or like flatlining for some men that are older. You are at peak muscle building signal all the time. That's so in other words, when you eat a little bit extra calories, it's.

[Sal DeStefano]

More likely to go to muscle.

[Justin Andrews]

It's more likely to go right to muscle. Especially if you're strength training. If you're strength training in conjunction with this. So a person like you has a much Greater advantage of the accidental extra calories going to good than just being stored as body fat than the average person who's at the whims of peaks and valleys of testosterone levels. So even more reason, I mean I would have done it regardless even if you were not taking hormone replacement theory. But having that is like a no brainer. Like we need it, let's go build some muscle.

[Sal DeStefano]

You know and something else that's not often discussed because it's a little bit more nuanced. But you get two people, identical situations. They're both twins. One of them has more muscle and been strength training for a while, the other one hasn't. The same workout being done is more volume and more stress with the bigger stronger person. You know, squatting 300 pounds for 10 reps is 300 pounds for 10 reps versus 150. Even if the intensity feels similar when you have more muscle, it's just more volume, you know. And five days a week of bodybuilding for, for most people you could do maybe a couple a short sprint of doing that. But in a calorie surplus, but definitely not long term and definitely not in a calorie deficit.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah, okay.

[Caller]

Okay, that's great. That's great. I mean Yalls advice is great. I love your show, I love your. Every day I go walk, I listen to your podcast and then when I'm home in the evenings I watch your YouTube. So you guys are doing it, right?

[Justin Andrews]

Appreciate it. Appreciate my support.

[Sal DeStefano]

Eric, we'll sell you, we'll send you maps anabolic in that recovery guide.

[Caller]

Thank you so much.

[Sal DeStefano]

You got it brothers man. Yeah, that's, that's the thing like I think a lot of people don't realize is they get if they've been strength training for a long time. Like one hard workout for me is equivalent in terms of like you know, stress on my body than like four workouts. When I was 16 years old, I just wasn't strong. I just wasn't, it wasn't as intense. I wasn't hitting my body with the same volume and weight and all that stuff.

[Doug]

Yeah, you weren't as efficient too. You're doing with those movements minutes.

[Justin Andrews]

This is also another an opportunity for the listeners to understand too like how, how did, how to know if you have like a really good trainer, like a good trainer would, would have him have tracked and given him calories that he'd been doing. I would have looked at the volume of workout he'd been doing before. I would have considered that he's on hormone replacement therapy. And all those things would be like, okay, if I'm. If I am going to cut calories, I'm certainly not going to ramp up his volume at the same time. At the same time where he's already at body fat percent. He's not like, super overweight. He has a little bit of belly fat he wants to get rid of. I can easily build. This guy's on hormone therapy. I could easily build some muscle on him. And that's going to lean him out. Like, so there. There's just some things that you.

[Sal DeStefano]

Here's. Here's a red flag for. Unfortunately, majority of online coaches are like this. This is why we're getting in that space and trying to educate coaches. But this is. They have two buttons in front of them. Yeah, I want to lose fat, cut calories, increase activity.

[Doug]

Boom, together, done at once.

[Sal DeStefano]

That's my solution for everything. That's not the solution.

[Justin Andrews]

And we try and communicate this that it's not even the better, faster way. It will. It looks like it in the. In one week or two weeks. Yeah.

[Doug]

Very short term.

[Justin Andrews]

But then it hit. You hit a plateau, and then you get all the cascading things of sleep and hunger and all that stuff coming.

[Sal DeStefano]

Then if you're not listening to someone else who knows what they're talking about, you're just like, oh, I just gotta tough through it.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

And keep going. By the way, the overtraining rescue guide is actually a free guide that we have. It'[e-mail], so anybody can get it. And it's a week of recovery structured to get you back on track.

[Adam Schaefer]

Our next caller is Charles from New Jersey.

[Sal DeStefano]

Hey, what's up, man? How can we help you doing, Charles?

[Charles]

How you guys doing today?

[Justin Andrews]

Good, man.

[Sal DeStefano]

How are you?

[Charles]

Yeah, doing great. Yeah. So my question is I can just read through what I wrote, but I just want to say first and foremost that you guys have helped me so much in my journey. I came from a bad place, and now I'm in a much better one. And it's thanks.

[Justin Andrews]

A lot of.

[Charles]

It's thanks to listening to Mind Bump. So I really appreciate that.

[Sal DeStefano]

Thank you.

[Justin Andrews]

Thank you.

[Charles]

So what I wrote to Doug is I've run anabolic performance and aesthetic, and I went from 265 down to 175, which is my current weight.

[Justin Andrews]

Wow.

[Doug]

Wow.

[Justin Andrews]

That's awesome.

[Charles]

Yeah. And I've done a lot of, like, what you've talked about, you know, the protein, the whole foods, you know, all the things that you guys talk about on here. And it's, it's, it's worked for me. And so with that being said, my question is, now that I've done those programs, Anabolic Performance and Aesthetic, where should I go from here?

[Caller]

Really?

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah. That's great. So you just finished aesthetic, man.

[Charles]

Yes.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah. By the way, congratulations on your success, man.

[Justin Andrews]

That's incredible.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah, dude. So, I mean, we have a few programs I think would be appropriate for you.

[Justin Andrews]

I think some more questions though, like, what are you into? Like, what's. What do you enjoy doing favorite things.

[Doug]

You got from those three programs?

[Charles]

Yeah, for sure. I mean, just the structure of it all, you know, that was really beneficial to me. To me, because I was like, I just knew the bro workout, you know, like buys and tries and back and buys and, you know, that's all I knew since I've been working out. So this really gave me some structure to it and, and just the guidance from the show, you know, I listen to the show while I'm working out, so that really helps me a lot too, just to stay focused.

[Sal DeStefano]

Do you like. So do you like learning kind of different movements that are not your traditional kind of bodybuilding to challenge yourself differently?

[Charles]

I think really what I'm looking to do is just continue to better myself in the sense of, like, where I can go in like strength wise and condition wise. And then the last piece of it would be the esthetic piece, like how I look.

[Sal DeStefano]

I got a good mix for you. I think MAP Strong is an amazing program for that.

[Doug]

And symmetry you're going to get.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah. Oh, and symmetry is another great one. That's a good call. God, I'd be torn.

[Doug]

I know.

[Sal DeStefano]

Strong is fun. You're doing some different movements. You're going to build some great muscle, especially in the posterior chain your back, you're just going to feel very strong and conditioned symmetry, very good for balancing out the body. So I could send you either one. Which one sounds more fun to you?

[Charles]

They both sound great. The first one sounds awesome.

[Sal DeStefano]

Let's go MAP Strong. Then we'll send you MAP Strong and we'll take. Yeah. And then you know what I'd like to do, Charles? I'd like to hear from you when you're done. I'd like to have you back on the show and I'd like to hear like all the things that you felt and what worked for you, what didn't work for you with MAP Strong and just kind of, you know, take it from there.

[Charles]

That'd be awesome.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah. Good job. By the way, man, you're doing great, dude.

[Doug]

Yeah, dude.

[Sal DeStefano]

Keep it going, man.

[Charles]

Thanks so much, guys. I really appreciate it.

[Sal DeStefano]

You got it. God bless, man.

[Charles]

Thank you.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah. Good. Wow.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

Great progress.

[Doug]

He definitely listens to show. Well, you know, red, black.

[Sal DeStefano]

And reading his question because he didn't say some of the stuff that he, you know, he didn't say on the, on the call. But his question, I mean, he, he had some struggles.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

And he came out of those struggles like, in a big way. So it wasn't just a physical transformation. He experienced a mental and spiritual transition or transformation as well.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah.

[Sal DeStefano]

So that's why I want to have him back on the show because I hope he opens up more and talks about it as we. As he goes through strong.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah, I was, I was hoping he'd, you know, obviously he's talked about the structure of all of them, but I was curious. I wanted him to. To shed a little more light on what he liked. Like, I mean, those are very. Three very different programs. And one of the reasons why I love people doing exactly that is going through all three is like, then I. From a client like this, I would be like, okay, which one do you like the most? Which one do you like the least? Or tell me, do you remember phases?

[Doug]

You prioritize things a little more effectively.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah. So then if I have an idea, because where, where someone is at with like at this point in their life, it's like my goal is just to keep them working out. Like, he's, he's not super body focused. He's not like trying to be super athlete or anything like that. Like, it's obvious that exercise and the advice we've given has changed his life. And it's like, I just want to keep this guy going. And so finding out totally what he's enjoying, what gets him to the gym and he's enjoying is that's where I'm pushing. You keep going that way.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah. I'm hoping you like strong.

[Justin Andrews]

I think that was a good crow. I think both. I think both your advice is. Is great. The only one, that the symmetry is like one of the best things that someone could do for them. It's the isometrics at the beginning is always what. I'm always a little nervous. Do you have the discipline to do.

[Sal DeStefano]

That two week period?

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah. To do that two weeks different, though.

[Doug]

And it's so.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah, it's so good. It's so good. But it's, it's the one that's like, if I have somebody who I'm worried that might not follow something through. It's like, that's why. Because of that. But most people need it so bad, so when they do it, they, they're blown away.

[Sal DeStefano]

Yeah. Look, if you like the show, come find us on Instagram. Justin is at mindpumpjustin. I'm at Mind Pump distefano. Adam's at mindpump.

[Adam Schaefer]

Thank you for listening to Mind Pump. If your goal is to build and shape your body, dramatically improve your health and energy and maximize your overall performance, check out our discounted RGB super [e-mail] the R RGB Super Bundle includes Maps, Anabolic Maps, Performance and Maps Aesthetic. Nine months of phased expert exercise programming designed by Sal, Adam and Justin to systematically transform the way your body looks, feels and performs. With detailed workout blueprints and over 200 videos. The RGB Super Bundle is like having Sal, Adam and Justin as your own personal trainers, but at a fraction of the price. The RGB Super Bundle has a full 30 day money back guarantee and you can get it now. Plus other valuable free [e-mail] if you enjoy this show, please share the love by leaving us a five star rating and review on itunes and by introducing Mind Pump to your friends and family. We thank you for your support and until next time, this is Mind Pump.