← Mind Pump: Raw Fitness Truth
Mind Pump: Raw Fitness Truth
2648: Nine Reasons Getting Stronger is the Best Physical Pursuit & More (Listener Coaching)
01:12:04
In this episode of Quah (Q & A), Sal, Adam & Justin answer four Pump Head questions drawn from last Sunday’s Quah post on the @mindpumpmedia Instagram page. Mind Pump Fit Tip: 9 Reasons Getting Stronger is the Best Physical Pursuit....
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- [00:00]
Sal DeStefano
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- [00:29]
Adam Schafer
If you want to pump your body and expand, there's only one place to go. Mind Pump Mind Pump with your hosts Sal Destefano, Adam Schaeffer and Justin Andrews.
- [00:42]
Sal DeStefano
You just found the most downloaded fitness, health and entertainment podcast in history. This is Mind Pump, right? In today's episode we answered listeners questions, but this was after an Intro. Today's intro, 55 minutes long. In the intro we talk about fitness studies, science, fat loss, family, life. It's a good time. By the way, if you want to write in some questions that we can potentially pick for an episode, go to Instagram npumpmedia. That's where you do it now. This episode is brought to you by some sponsors. The first one is TRO Scriptions. Today we talked about their Just Blue supplement. This is Methylene blue. You've heard about methyl in blue. Mitochondrial enhancement. Nootropic. It boosts creative thinking, gives you energy. You feel amazing. You will feel this. Take it. You will 100% feel this. And it makes a big difference. Try it out for yourself. See what we're talking about. Go to troscriptions.com that's T R O S C R-I P T I N T I-O-N S.com mindpump Use the code mindpump. You'll get 10% off. This episode is also brought to you by Element. This is electrolyte powder. You add to your water. No artificial sweeteners, no sugar, and it's got the right amount of sodium. Most other electrolyte powders are too low in sodium to make a difference. Not element. Thousand milligrams per dose. It makes a difference. Try it out. Go to drinklement.com that'S-R-I-N k l m n t.com mindpump on that link you'll get a free sample pack of their most popular drink. Mix flavors with any purchase. We also have a sale this month, Maps split and the Anabolic metabolism bundle of workout programs. All those workout programs, health half off. Head over to maps fitnessproducts.com and then use the code July50 for the discount. Back to the show. When you work out, you can chase endurance. You can chase flexibility, power and strength. Which one's the best? Well, today we're going to make the case, the strong case, data driven case. Why strength is the best physical pursuit. If you're going to work out that's the one you should probably chase the most which is listen in and figure out why.
- [02:48]
Justin Andrews
Not to ruin your your nine answers or reasons. But the short answer is it's the only one that carries over to all pursuits.
- [02:55]
Sal DeStefano
That's correct.
- [02:56]
Doug
It is laced everything else it is.
- [02:58]
Sal DeStefano
The base physical pursuit. So here's what happens. When you get stronger, you improve functional flexibility, you improve stamina or endurance and you get more powerful, you get more explosive, even relieve pain. That and you can't say that about the other physical pursuits. In other words, if I took a ultra marathon runner and I made him 10% stronger, he's going to have more endurance. If I take somebody who is a flexibility expert and I make them stronger, they have more functional flexibility or stability. You want more power. You take somebody who wants to jump higher, you make them stronger, they'll jump higher. Now that doesn't mean those other physical pursuits aren't important. Well, another way the base is strength.
- [03:40]
Justin Andrews
Another way to say that also is I take five people that are all starting at zero and you focus on strength. Strength guy is going to get a little bit of everything.
- [03:50]
Sal DeStefano
Yes.
- [03:50]
Justin Andrews
Where if you take someone and just focus on endurance, they're not going to necessarily get more strength. In fact, they could lose some strength.
- [03:55]
Sal DeStefano
So that's correct.
- [03:56]
Justin Andrews
That's another way to look at it. Instead of like saying, oh this, this person who already does this thing, this is going to add a little more to it. It's like, well, if you are at zero where a lot of clients are when they first hire you and you have one pursuit, say they like all pursuits or one in particular, that one pursuit has carryover for all of them where the other ones don't necessarily do that 100%.
- [04:17]
Sal DeStefano
So now that doesn't mean you don't pursue the other physical pursuits, but there is a base physical pursuit. And this is, I think you said it great, Adam. Especially in the beginning. Especially in the beginning. This is the one that you go after because you're going to get a good deal of all the others. Now as you become more advanced, especially if you're an athlete, then you can start to focus more and other directions. But if you lose this base, you will lose the other physical pursuits. That's another way to say it, right? If you want more endurance and you lose a lot of strength, your endurance is going to go down.
- [04:51]
Doug
You're limited.
- [04:51]
Sal DeStefano
Yeah, if you want to have great functional flexibility so that you don't hurt yourself, but you lose a lot of strength, you're totally screwed. So it's the base physical pursuit that contributes to all the others, whereas the other ones don't necessarily do this. The next one is it improves overall health and longevity. Now all physical pursuits, if you get better at them, will improve, generally will improve health and longevity. But strength, the data is now showing clearly is the best. Now this doesn't mean you can't get carried away. So people right now are thinking, well what about power lifters or bodybuilders? You go extreme in any direction, you start to sacrifice health and longevity. We're talking about the average person. But one of the best predictors of all cause mortality is not a endurance test that does predict it to a good degree. It is not flexibility, it is not power. It's a simple grip strength test which is a proxy for overall body strength. So when they do the data on this in the tests, if somebody's grip strength is not good, they can relatively accurately predict all cause mortality better with that metric than almost any other metric that you can test, which is remarkable.
- [06:00]
Justin Andrews
What do you think the major contributor to that is that makes it such a good thing for health and longevity? Would it be how protective muscle is and muscle related to strength?
- [06:10]
Sal DeStefano
It's both mobility, insulin sensitivity, I mean we get to more all of this, right? Metabolic health, mitochondrial health, it's all of those things. Now what they will show in data, they'll also show muscle is a good predictor. But strength is a better predictor than just muscle because really strength shows you've got functional, healthy muscles.
- [06:32]
Doug
Immune compromise, like, you know, for the most part you're strong, then you're resilient even towards like disease and all kinds of other factors.
- [06:39]
Sal DeStefano
That's right. Here's A study, a 2018 study in the Lancelet found that higher muscle strength is associated with a 20 to 35% lower risk of all cause mortality and cardiovascular disease mortality independent. Here's the best part. Independent of aerobic fitness. So regardless of stamina, 20, 35% reduction, there's almost nothing you can do with physical, with fitness pursuits. Or should I Say objective measurements of physical pursuits that'll cause that drastic of a reduction. We're not even talking cancer risk by the way. Strength is a muscle is a phenomenal anti cancer protection Number three. It enhances daily performance. Think about your everyday life, all the things that you do, all the ways that you move, or all the ways, more importantly in modern societies, in the ways that you don't move. Strength is protective. When you're sedentary, when you're strong and you sit at a desk all day long. By the way, sitting all day long always has a negative effect on you. But the best buffer, the best protection against that is strength. All the other ones don't protect you nearly as well.
- [07:52]
Justin Andrews
I think in all the ways that you don't move is probably the most powerful thing you said because you have to understand too, as we age, the body prunes off these things that we don't use. So really some basic human movements, if you don't use them for a long enough period of time, your body goes oh yeah, we don't need that anymore. And simply just doing that, the benefits of that for health, longevity, protective, like all the above is incredible.
- [08:17]
Sal DeStefano
Well a good part of this that I think makes it so. One of the reasons why it's so protective is when you build strength, it sticks around longer when you're inactive than versus other physical pursuits. Or to put it differently, to maintain a certain level of endurance you need to practice it pretty frequently. Like if you miss your 4 runs for let's say you go from, you.
- [08:39]
Justin Andrews
Get it and lose it fast, fast.
- [08:41]
Sal DeStefano
Let's say you run four days a week and then for a month you run one day a week. Dramatic loss.
- [08:45]
Justin Andrews
By the way. This is also the, the, the flip is the positive side that I always talk about people that want endurance training. Right. A lot of times I get clients that I'm trying to convince that we should focus on strength first. Even though they say they want endurance. And I'm like Matt, in a week we can build a ton of endurance. Like in a week. In a week, which is where the hell weeks and all the first week of basketball, see where that is all built off of that. We know that if you do a ton of that in a week's time, the amount of now it doesn't mean your peak and you can't improve, but you get a bulk of that in like a week. Yeah, initially there's, that's not like strength and building muscle. Strength and building muscle is a long gradual pursuit.
- [09:25]
Sal DeStefano
It's not just long Gradual it, if you went from lifting, let's put, let me put it differently. Let's say you always strength train four days a week and you have a certain level of strength and then for two months you go down to one day a week, you're probably not going to lose any strength. Yeah, you'll, you'll maybe lose a little bit because you're not practicing the techniques as often. But it's not going to be this perceptive loss of strength in your daily life, that's for sure.
- [09:49]
Justin Andrews
No, most studies point to one time every two weeks hitting that muscle group.
- [09:53]
Sal DeStefano
That's right. But now with endurance or other physical pursuits, you go from four days a week to one. You see it, you feel it within two weeks, like, oh my God, my stamina is way down. So it's just, it's this incredible way to protect your body. And then of course, like I said, it enhances daily performance. Here's a study, there's a meta analysis in sports medicine that showed that strength training improved functional outcomes in older adults as measured by basic things like walking speed and chair rising ability by, by close to 30%. So just getting a little stronger made their daily, you know, whatever. Now I experienced this as a trainer. The back half of my career had a lot of clients that were over 60 and it's significant, a minority, but a significant percentage of them were over 70. This is just the amount of people I started to attract after a certain point. And the change in the quality of their life from one day a week of strength training was profound. I'd have their kids come in and would tell me, oh my God, you've completely changed my mom's life. And literally they come in and do three or four exercises one day a week with me and nothing else. Pretty remarkable.
- [10:58]
Doug
Yeah. And it's really, it's a psychological benefit as well because as you strength train, you tend to able to pursue the harder things versus like your body's. Everybody's human nature is to take the easier path for the most part. And you start getting in this condition as you don't strength train to keep and maintain this easier ease of access type of a path.
- [11:21]
Sal DeStefano
Totally. The next one is it boosts mental performance. So check this out. This was a 2018 review in Frontiers in Psychology. Here's what it found. Resistance training significantly reduce reduces symptoms of depression and anxiety. Compare now compared to aerobic fitness.
- [11:38]
Justin Andrews
I was just going to ask you better is that independent of movement? Because we've known that forever. This is like the old, all of it Helps artists are in a block or writers in a block. So they get up and they walk and they move and they know that it like unlocks something or they just get, they get better cognitive abilities. So this is comparing that Head. Head. So not even just movement in general. It's. If strength training in particular outperforms somebody who.
- [12:01]
Sal DeStefano
Long term. Yeah. In the short term, all movement has this great acute effect on depression. Like just moving. Right. So long as you don't hurt yourself and overdo it, you're going to get. You're going to feel better. You're going to feel better. When it comes to depression, anxiety, strength training seems to have this kind of compounding effect over time. And it, it's. I mean there's some speculation around this. It might be the insulin sensitizing effect which your brain, if your brain becomes resistant to insulin, I guess dementia right. In the beginnings of that looks like depression. In fact, with Alzheimer's, there was a, Was a study done in Australia, I believe, that showed that it was the only form of exercise to reduce one of the, the. I don't know, effects of Alzheimer's. One of the ways we can see it through the beta amyloid plaques. We don't necessarily think it causes Alzheimer's, but we know Alzheimer's. We see that more in people with Alzheimer's. Strength training was the only form of exercise that halted it and appeared towards the end of the study to reverse it, which is pretty remarkable.
- [12:59]
Justin Andrews
So interesting to me that we know this and this like, this isn't like new research and the way we've structured our schools for so long. You would think there would be such a better way to teach our children knowing this.
- [13:11]
Sal DeStefano
Right.
- [13:11]
Justin Andrews
Like there. And I know that there are some unique programs.
- [13:16]
Doug
Outliers.
- [13:16]
Justin Andrews
Yeah, there are some outliers that have figured that have hacked into this, that like. And I don't know what the exact breakdown is, but I've heard of some of these curriculums where the kids will like every. They never work longer than like 20 minutes. And then they get up, they do squats, they do some sort of play extension. Yeah. And they go back and then they do it again.
- [13:33]
Sal DeStefano
We forget that the brain is an extension of the body and it move. Your brain works better when you can involve the body. We actually learn better this way. Like there's ways of teaching where you do like a hand motion while you're learning a particular word. For example, you can do this with music as well. But movement is very important part of getting the brain to operate more neural Activity.
- [13:55]
Justin Andrews
Well, it's another form of language.
- [13:57]
Sal DeStefano
That's right, 100. That's right, 100. Next step is bone density. There is no form of exercise that'll impact bone density in a positive way, like strength training. This one is like, this is like obvious. Oh, yeah. This is like shut case. Like done. Like, if you look at the data on like walking and running for bone density, you'll see some minor improvements in the lower body. And sometimes you don't see either any or sometimes a reduction as people get older in the upper body. Swimming has some positive effects, but minor strength training is direct. So think about this way. Strength training directly builds muscle. Everybody knows that, but it also directly builds bone. Yeah, bone anchor. Excuse me, Muscle anchors bone. If the bone. If the muscle contracts harder, produces more force, and is stronger, the bone gets stronger.
- [14:43]
Doug
The most extreme version of this is astronauts and not having gravity and gravitational forces and that kind of load and resistance, like, it really affects the bones in a negative way.
- [14:54]
Justin Andrews
Now why. Why is like low level walking, jogging or running, that. That's that small impact of that not also stimulated in the same way it does.
- [15:03]
Sal DeStefano
But it's mostly, if not all of it, localized to the lower extremities because of the impact of. Of the. On the lower body, whereas the upper body's not really getting that.
- [15:12]
Justin Andrews
Yeah.
- [15:13]
Sal DeStefano
You know, strength training, one of its unique attributes is you could train the whole body. You have like a million and one different exercises. You could. I mean, I'm exaggerating a lot more variables. You can, yeah. So I can. I can strengthen all my bones. I can strengthen every single bone in my body through strength training. I always tell the story, but I'll never forget I had a client who hired me. She had osteopenia. And she was on Fosamax, which is a not so great medication that's supposed to help with osteopenia. And she also had some other stuff going on, but there was this kind of gradual decline over time. She was a petite older woman and just couldn't figure it out. And at this point, the doctor was like, we're just trying to mitigate or slow down the decline. She hired me, I trained her six months, but this was one or two days a week of strength training. That's it. It was one to two days a week. And the strength training looked like you would apply to a mid-60s woman with no strength training experience. It was like four exercises, moderate intensity. She got a bone density scan done. I remember this because I was with her when she got the email and she goes, this is weird. I said, what? She goes, doctor's asking me to do another bone scan. He thinks this is wrong. I said, why? He goes, it's reversing. And he literally is saying, this doesn't this, let's do this again, because this might be a glitch. She took it again. Sure enough, it was accurate to the point where the doctor sent me an email and asked me, what are you doing with this woman? And they created a case study around her for bone density. Next. This is the one we tend to talk about the most. And I think it's because I know why we talk about this most. This sells strength training the best.
- [16:45]
Doug
Yeah.
- [16:46]
Sal DeStefano
It boosts metabolism. Right. So if you want the ability to burn more calories at rest, well, you, you strength train, increase lean flexibility. Yeah. So, like, you know, an asset in a modern society is a faster metabolism. It might not have been an asset 10,000 years ago. You don't want to be the guy with a super fast metabolism when you can't find food. But when you're surrounded by food all the time, fast metabolism is protective. When you look at the damage that food does to our body, even unhealthy food, it's largely mitigated when you burn those calories off. Now, here's a fact, and I don't like this, but you have these scientists that'll do this. They'll improve their blood lipids by eating like McDonald's every day. And what they're doing is they're on a low calorie diet, so they're burning more calories taken in and they're trying to prove a point. I don't think that's the. I don't think that's great. But it does show that, like, when you burn the calories off, like, it makes a huge difference.
- [17:40]
Justin Andrews
Well, I think everybody is in, whether they understand what it is or means, is in pursuit of metabolic flexibility. Who doesn't want the ability to be able to eat out of bounds or enjoy the occasional dessert or the nice glass of wine and not suddenly get immediately impacting and not feel like it. And which is, I think, what most clients that ever came to one of us, even though they might have other goals, would always say things like that, oh, man, I just, I remember in my 20s I could do this and I could do that. And now I have one glass of wine and I put on this, or I eat out one time and I feel like this. And so I think no matter what your overall goal is, I think most people Desire, metabolic, flexibility.
- [18:19]
Sal DeStefano
It's so funny. I would have, I had clients that were marathon runners, competitive, like, they would, you know, compete in the Boston Marathon and they would strength train with me mainly as a way to prevent injury. So we didn't do a ton. Right. We couldn't. They just, they were running so many miles, 30, 40 miles a week, and they were eating. These were men. So one guy in particular, 170 pound male, running 30 plus miles a week. In fact, at some point, at one point he was doing triathlons. He was eating around 3,000 calories a day to fuel those workouts. I had female clients, 130 pound female clients who lifted weights three to four days a week and walked, who were eating more than that. Yeah, their metabolism was faster. They weren't, they weren't moving nearly as much as he was, but they were eating as, as much as he was, if not more because the metabolism was. And I'm using two extreme examples, but this is what happens.
- [19:07]
Justin Andrews
Well, another point to be made is that I think a lot of people think that the metabolism that they have inherited, genetically, they're stuck with. Yeah, like, oh, you can influence it. Yeah. Oh, yeah, you can greatly influence it. I think that's the point, is that it's. I don't know how many clients that I've seen that have hired me. And we were eating X amount of calories, and a year later, we're eating a thousand more calories a day. I mean, that's a significant portion of them. We were able to do that by simply putting 10, 15 pounds of muscle on their body. And now they have all this incredible metabolic. Plus all the other things you're continuing to talk about.
- [19:42]
Sal DeStefano
Next, insulin sensitivity. This one, although, you know, I try to talk about this one because I try to sell it, but people don't get it. But I'm gonna be honest with you, of all the stuff we're talking about in the modern society, this is the most important.
- [19:54]
Doug
The most important.
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Sal DeStefano
This is the most important. Nothing improves insulin sensitivity like strength training. It's pro, it's in another universe versus other forms of exercise. In fact, there's studies on obese individuals who lose zero weight. They just do some strength training. You see an improvement in insulin sensitivity?
- [20:09]
Doug
Well, that's why we're always trying our best to steer people towards like pursuing, building muscle. You know, just because of that fact alone. It's, it's so protective against this environment we live in.
- [20:18]
Sal DeStefano
Insulin resistance causes dysfunction through the entire body, raises your risk of cardiovascular disease, cancer, Dementia, Alzheimer's, your, your, your cells just aren't operating very well. Muscle is a, it's one of the places you store glycogen. Glycogen comes from sugars and carbohydrates. When you have more muscle, you have a greater capacity to store it. Muscle is very insulin sensitive when it's healthy. So you don't have to release as much insulin to get your body to utilize that, that sugar or suck it out of the blood. Strength training is an incredibly powerful way to do this. Again, probably why strength training is so good for dementia. I can make. There's other reasons for it, but that's one of the reasons is you get that insulin sensitivity, which is funny too, by the way. Like you look at bodybuilders, pro bodybuilders who are not a healthy demographic. Like pro bodybuilders do, like almost everything they do is unhealthy because they're so extreme. Right. The amount of drugs they take, all the crazy stuff they do, their, their rates of diabetes are super low.
- [21:20]
Doug
Yeah.
- [21:21]
Sal DeStefano
Because they have so much muscle and their cancer risk is actually, actually quite low. They have high risk of other things. Yeah. But because they have the one thing.
- [21:28]
Doug
Like holding them together.
- [21:29]
Justin Andrews
Well, I think the thing that's most interesting about that, you bringing them up is, is the way they eat. Post contest.
- [21:37]
Sal DeStefano
Oh, it's terrible. And.
- [21:38]
Justin Andrews
Oh, it's crazy terrible. I mean I, I have a thousand grams of sugar. When I think of some of the worst eating behaviors and like, like chronic junk food eating clients, it was my bodybuilders, they, but they could. And probably why they were the worst was because they could get away with. It was because they built these reserves or ga big gas tanks on them that, that they could get away with eating a whole box of Oreos and you know, maybe not even gain a percent of body fat because they were so lean, they were so muscular, they could handle that many calories. Now it's not something you would advise someone to do, but that's just an extreme example of what building that much muscle can do as far as flexible.
- [22:18]
Sal DeStefano
And we're not telling you go be a pro bodybuilder to be healthy. We're just using as an example of.
- [22:22]
Justin Andrews
Right. As an extreme example.
- [22:23]
Sal DeStefano
That's right. Next up, reduces risk of injury if you hurt yourself in a random way. So I'm not talking about you get hit by a car or something crazy. Right. You hurt yourself in a random way. You throw something, you step off a curb, you twist the wrong way, you got Hurt because you lacked the strength or you lack the stability which comes from strength. To be able to perform that movement, that's it. Period, end of story. It's the greatest risk of injury prevention you could do is get stronger. This is so true for older individuals. Like when older individuals, you know, they lose balance and they fall, you get them stronger. Yeah, that's how you prevent all that from happening. There was a study in 2020 study done in the Journal of Strength and Conditioning Research. Strength training reduces sports related injury risk by 33% in athletes and non athletes just from adding a little bit of strength training. Again, we're talking about in athletes. These are, you know, when you're performing at a high level, risk of injury is going to go up no matter what. Y 33% reduction from some strength training. Like you can't. There's nothing that'll do that. And then lastly, athletic performance, you know, as you get more advanced, as you become, you get closer, you know, high school, high level college and so on, then the pursuits become more specific. But overall athletic performance, general athletic performance gets stronger. You just, you get two equally skilled individual, the stronger one is going to perform better than the weaker one. So. And by the way, I like to say that because sometimes people are like, well, you could be, you know, lift weights. You're not going to be able to run as fast as a runner. Well, yeah, there's no.
- [23:58]
Doug
But it's also generate more force.
- [24:01]
Justin Andrews
It's the foundation of all athletic pursuits. Which is why you hear us talk about young athletes. You get, we get parents a lot of times that ask like, what exercises should my son be doing? He wants to get into weightlifting. Like, well, he's just now getting into weightlifting. Then the foundational movements are what are going to benefit him the most. Even though he may play basketball, soccer, all these sports where there are specific movements in it, laying that foundation through just basic strength is going to carry over more than teaching that kid who's never squatted, never, never done a basic movement. All of a sudden you're teaching employment exercises. Like, he'll get more out of actually building strength through fundamental movements.
- [24:36]
Sal DeStefano
100%. All right, I got to, I'm going to bring up a book that I shared with Justin because my wife and I are reading it and it's so good.
- [24:42]
Justin Andrews
Do you know the name of it?
- [24:43]
Sal DeStefano
Yeah, it's on parenting. It's called Getting it right by Andy and Sandra Stanley. And it's about raising your kids. And it's really, really good because at least for me you know, I have a four year old, a two and a half year old, and I have a kid. You know, I have a 15 year old and an almost 20 year old now. And it's so different. And this book outlines the different stages that a parent go into with these kids. And it, as I read it, because we're listening to it together, I was like, oh my God, this is so true. And I was talking to you, Justin, yesterday because you got two teenage boys, one's almost a teenager, one's a teenager, and you were talking about how different.
- [25:21]
Doug
It is, the strategies completely changed now.
- [25:24]
Sal DeStefano
Yeah.
- [25:25]
Doug
Yeah. And it's, yeah. And it, it almost seems like it happens overnight. Obviously it's, it's been, you know, going in that direction and you could tell that they respond differently now. They have different pursuits, different ideas. You know, independence is a big thing now and you know, like kind of removal from sort of the family dynamic group. And so now trying to kind of peer into what's the most effective way to gain insight in the way that they think. And so that's why I wanted to read because like, any help in terms of like strategy coaching, especially for my oldest and, and my youngest was really kind of going through that like puberty kind of stage where it's. Everything is, is kind of attacking him at once. Yeah.
- [26:14]
Sal DeStefano
Well, the struggles you were mentioning, do you find.
- [26:16]
Justin Andrews
Sorry, Sal, but I'm just curious, do you find that it is more or less difficult for you or Courtney in this situation? Like, do is one of you more natural at allowing whatever this is and then the other one is having a harder time? Like. And can you guys see the difference?
- [26:31]
Doug
I think I have an advantage because obviously I was, you know, just like my kids. Like I grew up, you know, going through those changes and you know, specifically to, to the male brain and experience. But yeah, I think the removal of. I think it's really hard for moms to, to reconcile with the fact that it's not their like baby anymore.
- [26:55]
Sal DeStefano
Yeah.
- [26:55]
Doug
And that they have to kind of release it. And it's like the, the control of the, like letting them out into the unknown is very scary and hard. And, and for me it's like I, I know from experience, like what I wanted when I was their age and so I can kind of relate, relate a lot easier. And so I have a lot of conversations with them. I feel like I, I have a better grasp on it. But then trying to sort of bring her into that mindset has been really difficult.
- [27:29]
Justin Andrews
So did you guys ever. Do you guys I sent a video to all of us in the group thread. It was a mother writing a letter about, oh yeah, her son. And yeah, nailed it.
- [27:39]
Doug
Yeah.
- [27:39]
Justin Andrews
Okay. And what you're describing to me is.
- [27:41]
Doug
What she's going through.
- [27:42]
Justin Andrews
I was gonna say it because it was emotional. I'm not even for me to listen to it being read like, oh, man, that's got to be hard going through those phases as a mom. Well, one of that last.
- [27:52]
Sal DeStefano
One of the things that the book. Book says is that they will go. They are, they go into these stages whether you are or not.
- [27:58]
Justin Andrews
Right.
- [27:58]
Sal DeStefano
So you as a parent, you're like, you're not a little kid anymore. This isn't working anymore. It's like, no, it's, it's not. And you need to switch up, otherwise you're not nearly as effective. So here are the different stages. The number one is age zero to five.
- [28:12]
Justin Andrews
Okay.
- [28:13]
Sal DeStefano
These are the discipline years. Yeah. So this is when you're establishing boundaries, teaching basic behavior through consistent discipline. So this stage involves hand on guidance. You're instilling foundational values, behaviors. You set clear rules, consequences, essentially helping young kids learn from right and wrong. So that's 0 to 5. 5 to 12 is called the training years. This is where you're building skills and habits through instruction and practice. So you're shifting from strict discipline to teaching practical life skills, values, and decision making. So it's about training children take on more responsibility and helping them develop autonomy. By the way, what's interesting about this, these two is, you know, I probably did too much of the training years at the younger age thinking I can explain things, you know, where I was like, that's more appropriate as they get older.
- [29:01]
Justin Andrews
Right.
- [29:02]
Sal DeStefano
And then 12 to 18. These are the coaching years. This is when you're coaching teens through decision making while allowing greater independence. That's a tough one, right?
- [29:11]
Doug
Yep.
- [29:12]
Sal DeStefano
So it says during the teenage years, parents act more like coaches, offering advice and support rather than direct control. So the goals help teens navigate challenges, make informed choices, and prepare for adulthood while maintaining a strong relational bond. This stage emphasizes open communication and trust. And you're avoiding overly disciplinary tactics that may alienate teens. And I know a lot of people mess up on that.
- [29:39]
Justin Andrews
It's the opposite of what most people do.
- [29:40]
Sal DeStefano
Yeah, most they clamp down.
- [29:42]
Justin Andrews
Most parents get into that kind of rebellious, wanting freedom, an autonomy type of the. The parents freak out and over clamp. Yeah, it's like you are looser on me two, three years ago, but now that you see that I'm pulling Away. Then you get even.
- [29:58]
Doug
Or suddenly it's like, well, opposite reaction.
- [30:01]
Sal DeStefano
Yeah. And suddenly. Or suddenly it's like, mom, dad, like, like, that's enough. Let me try to figure this out a little more. Because what happens when you overbear on them like they were when they were younger is they'll just do things behind your back. Yeah.
- [30:14]
Justin Andrews
Now you, Justin, because you have two. Well, you technically have two in that age, too.
- [30:17]
Sal DeStefano
Yeah.
- [30:18]
Justin Andrews
You have two in that age. Do you recognize a difference in each of them? How they communicate it to, like, you and your mom? Like, is one of them, like, more vocal about it and willing to be like, hey, dad, like, let me be. Let me just do my thing. And the other one is more to hold it in and not say anything. Do you notice that?
- [30:33]
Doug
Yeah, I think. Yeah. Everett's probably more, like, isolated, wants to kind of figure it out himself and. And is. He'll. He'll kind of remove himself and, like, be frustrated and. And take off.
- [30:46]
Justin Andrews
Not say anything.
- [30:47]
Doug
Not say anything. It. I mean, Ethan will express himself pretty well and communicate a lot of it. Although this is where it's a lot of the conflicts happening between, you know, him. Courtney is just like, you know, she has a lot of intuition and, and knows, like, has had certain experiences that, you know, she's trying to express. Like, this happened to me. It's a real thing. And like, he's. He's a little too naive in terms of, like, he's very confident in that, like, certain bad things aren't going to happen to him or this or that. Like, and so having a hard time kind of allowing him to. To go through that himself and stumble or, like, trust that he's going to, like, make the. The right decision out of that. It's like that. That tendency still to kind of go. Pull them out of environments, to take him away from friends to. To. To drive and go, not allow him to, like, take the bus and, you know, things like that, where it's like, I'm like, yeah, let him walk home. Like, look like he needs to have that kind of independence. We. He's. He's established that he's. He's made right decisions and made a lot of really good decisions through his teens and, like, getting to the point where he is now. So for me, I'm like, I'm really. I'm cool. I'm like, hey, I trust you, you know, and I. But this is what I'm concerned about, you know, in this environment with these friends. Yeah, we know about this friend of yours. So I'm very. I know how, you know, his parents deal with it, and that's not what we do.
- [32:15]
Justin Andrews
Yeah.
- [32:16]
Doug
So I catch this happening, you know, this is the last time this happened, you know, But I trust you.
- [32:21]
Justin Andrews
Yeah.
- [32:21]
Doug
Kind of a thing. Giving him that kind of.
- [32:24]
Justin Andrews
That's so the right move. That's so the right move in that situation, you know, and in. In Courtney's defense, one of the.
- [32:31]
Doug
It's.
- [32:31]
Justin Andrews
We're so wired. The opposite. So this is such a challenge. Right. Like, yeah, we are wired to recognize patterns that have happened in our own life and store that as, oh, watch out. You do these things, this could happen. Because I live that experience. And then you see your child that you're very protective of, going through that, and there's that part of you that wants to go, hey, I've already done this.
- [32:51]
Sal DeStefano
I have the answer.
- [32:52]
Justin Andrews
I have the answer. The reality is, and it's a very dangerous thing to bring in your. Your experiences into this new experience that you're currently having and allowing that to dictate how it happens versus giving them that freedom, like you said, to. To choose and. And fall on their own face.
- [33:10]
Sal DeStefano
Yeah. Well, I mean, there's. There's, of course, situations where you need to, you know, stops, you know, if there's safety. Right. If there's something.
- [33:16]
Justin Andrews
Yeah, but that's just it. That's the hard thing to distinguish between is, is this a situation where he could get hurt?
- [33:21]
Doug
We have that in the earlier stage. Right. And we did that. Did that, did it. Now it's like he knows. Right.
- [33:27]
Adam Schafer
Wrong.
- [33:28]
Doug
He knows. He knows those things, and he knows the dangers, and I have to allow him to pursue it on his own and. And remove himself on his own.
- [33:37]
Sal DeStefano
Yeah. I think what it is, is you have to be very judicious with the hard boundaries. Like, there's hard boundaries. Like, don't get in a car with someone who's drinking. Like, that's a hard boundary, you know, type of deal.
- [33:47]
Doug
Yeah, exactly.
- [33:47]
Sal DeStefano
But then the other stuff, at best, here's what happens. You have the answer. They do it your way. You rob them of them. Of them making it theirs.
- [33:57]
Justin Andrews
Yeah.
- [33:57]
Sal DeStefano
This is like my dad's. This is my mom's. This isn't what I learned.
- [34:00]
Justin Andrews
Right, right.
- [34:01]
Sal DeStefano
You also potentially eliminate coaching opportunities, you know, opportunities where they do the thing and they're like, dad, this, this. And then they're open. Right. Because that's the coaching. Like, they come to you and they talk to you, hey, Dad, I did this thing. Didn't work out.
- [34:14]
Doug
Well, that's the other thing is allowing, like. So I know there's going to be mistakes. I know that he's not always going to choose the. The right thing, but, like, having the grace to. To communicate it when he comes back and, like, still be able to, like, feel like he can approach me with it as opposed to. Yeah. Like, hiding it and, and sneaking it and getting in more trouble because, like, he doesn't feel like he can.
- [34:38]
Sal DeStefano
Well, talk to you about it. I think all of us, the three of us in here, just from knowing you guys, we all probably experienced where our parents didn't go into the coaching phase and they continue to try to control us.
- [34:49]
Justin Andrews
Yeah.
- [34:49]
Doug
I had the opposite.
- [34:51]
Sal DeStefano
We all did that. What do we all do? Did things behind their back.
- [34:54]
Doug
Exactly.
- [34:54]
Sal DeStefano
Like, you know, I'm going to act this way in front of you, but then when you're not around, I'm going to go.
- [34:58]
Justin Andrews
Yeah.
- [34:58]
Sal DeStefano
And do the same. And. And what happened is they don't have that communication. They don't know.
- [35:02]
Doug
Yeah.
- [35:03]
Sal DeStefano
Because I'm not going to tell you because I know what's going to happen if I tell you. You don't even trust me.
- [35:07]
Justin Andrews
Yeah.
- [35:07]
Sal DeStefano
To make these decisions.
- [35:08]
Justin Andrews
You know, it's interesting that this is a very similar challenge that a lot of marriages have because of their own past trauma and relationships. Coming into the new one is so. And so did this to me and they hurt me.
- [35:20]
Sal DeStefano
Yeah.
- [35:20]
Justin Andrews
I'm in a new relationship now, and.
- [35:22]
Sal DeStefano
I'm going to control everything.
- [35:24]
Justin Andrews
Yeah. Well, and I see this. I've been here before. Oh, my God. I'm going to clamp down on my partner because I don't want to get hurt because I've been hurt in the past. And that's so unfair to that partner because I didn't do that to you. That's your past shit. That's. That's somebody else that dated you, not me. But yet we tend to do that a lot. So it's a very similar, like, psychological thing that's happening, that you recognize these patterns and behaviors. You're in a new experience, but you can't help but get out of your own way because you've had this, you know, these alarm bells going off of, oh, God, this leads to him cheating on me, or, oh, this leads to him doing this to me. And so then all of a sudden you get, you know, overbearing or protective or defensive, which pushes them away. Pushes them away even more. And so it's not just in kids that you see this. This is also in. In marriage, relationships where you bring past traumas and situations. But I mean, I love the way that you handle it because it's the same advice I'd give to somebody in, in a marriage that was going through the same thing too, is just, is to communicate that.
- [36:21]
Doug
Yeah.
- [36:21]
Justin Andrews
It's like, hey, you know, I, your dad has gone through something similar before. These are the things that tend to happen at events like this. And I know that kid, I know this. That could go down. So I trust you though. I trust, you know, you know right from wrong, you know where, where we stand on stuff like that. And I think you'll make the right decision. But just want you to know where my, my concern comes from as a dad and then letting him be.
- [36:42]
Sal DeStefano
So they're free if you need.
- [36:43]
Justin Andrews
Right, right. So they're, they're aware that I'm aware of what I'm sending you into. I'm also aware of my own, that I've seen this before. But at the same time too, I'm gonna let you have your experience. And I think if you did like you guys did, I think such a good job raising those boys, I think 95 of the time they're probably going to make the right one. There will always be that 5% that they're going to want to test and think that they're going to figure everything. Yeah, yeah. So. And I think different kids are different. Right. Some kids are the ones that always. Right, right. That are going to actually have to fall on their face a couple times the hard way for them to learn. And then the other ones that are a little bit easier, they're like, oh, okay, my dad's pretty wise. I'm going to listen to what he said.
- [37:22]
Sal DeStefano
But that comes from a good relationship to totally. Yeah. You know, and then the last phase, you know what's interesting about the last phase? So they call this the friendship phase.
- [37:29]
Justin Andrews
Is this past 18.
- [37:31]
Sal DeStefano
18 plus.
- [37:32]
Justin Andrews
Yeah.
- [37:32]
Sal DeStefano
So something I want to say about this is of all the phases, this one's the longest. Right. Because you're going to know your kids for far longer. They're going to be an adult in, in stage four than you did in all the other ones. All the other ones are seasons. The last one is the rest of their entire life. Yeah, it's the friendship years. And the focus is transitioning to a peer like relationship with adult children. Once children reach adulthood, the parenting role evolves into a friendship based on mutual respect and connection. The focus on maintaining a relationship where adult children want to spend time with their parents and siblings, not because they have to, but because they have a strong positive bond.
- [38:11]
Justin Andrews
So I recognize that this is not obviously broken up perfect and everything's going to line up exactly the years. But I love that it does give some sort of framework for parents, because I think another thing that really good parents with good intentions do sometimes, too, is they're the wrong. The wrong one at the wrong time.
- [38:30]
Sal DeStefano
That's right.
- [38:30]
Justin Andrews
Right. Like, how many kids have you known that, like, they're really young, they need some structure, but they're trying. Their parent wants to be their best friend. Yeah, it's like they're eight, dude. Like, you're not their best friend right now. This is a phase where you're supposed to teach them some shit, boundaries, and they just want to be their best buddy. And so they make that. And it's like, you're going to have plenty of time to do that. You have time to do all of them. Right. And so it's learning what stage they're at and then meeting them there and learn to do that. I mean, it's. And it's also like an ever moving target. Right. So, like, where is your kid currently at and what are they doing?
- [38:58]
Sal DeStefano
Well, what I find is fascinating about this as we're reading it. It's like I can see where. What happened with my family, my parents. I can see some of the ways that I messed up in the past. And it's so clear. Yeah, it's so, so clear. So I think it's a really good book. And I think moms and dads generally are better or worse at some of those different stages, so.
- [39:17]
Justin Andrews
Oh, what a good point. Because that's. That's the other level of great parenting is recognizing that each of you have your strengths at different phases.
- [39:24]
Sal DeStefano
That's right.
- [39:25]
Justin Andrews
And that maybe, you know, maybe, Katrina, you lead this phase because you're naturally more gifted at this structural teaching phase. And so now that we've moved into kind of the coaching phase, maybe that's a little more my strength and you take a backseat and allow me to do more of the coaching and leading. So that that would be a sign of a really good marriage and partnership, too, is the ability to recognize that the kids are not only gonna go through different phases, that each of us have our strengths. Where again, another mistake that a lot of marriages make is one parent, teens tends to lead it all, and then the other one handles other stuff. And it's like, well, there's going to be times probably in this child's life where, you know, one of us should probably lead from the front a little more than the other one. And then other times we switch.
- [40:06]
Sal DeStefano
Totally.
- [40:07]
Doug
That's totally. Yeah. That's what I love about Courtney. It's been the beginning stages was definitely very much led through her. You know, she was very on top of all that. And then. Yeah. And is willing to kind of allow now to. For me to lead and to. To coach and I. Half the time now. It's funny because I'm like, I'm. I'm counseling all three of them together, and I'm just like, okay, you need to communicate better. You need to communicate better. I was like, otherwise, this doesn't get to happen, you know, and it's just like this constant sort of, you know, powwow. Like, we need to have, like, a team meeting kind of a thing. But it's cool. It's like. But that's the stage where everybody's at. It's like they just need. They need clarity. They need, you know, some kind of confidence that everybody's on the same page now.
- [40:52]
Justin Andrews
Do you find yourself going through anything emotionally? Like, are you more or less excited about this phase? And. Because obviously, you could tell she's probably struggling. Courtney's probably struggling with this phase.
- [41:03]
Doug
Yeah.
- [41:03]
Justin Andrews
But I would think from a dad in your personality, this is kind of a cool phase.
- [41:08]
Doug
It is, because. Only because I understand it more. Like, I. And I'm good about, like, creating boundaries and all that with, you know, those earlier stages. But, like, it, you know, in terms of, like, really getting involved in. In their education and making sure all these things, like, line up. And, like, she's just so organized and helpful, and. And, like, I. You know, I leaned on her a lot for that. And so this is really, like, you know, trying. Trying to help kind of paint this vision for everybody. Like, it's. Everything's gonna be okay, and I know it because we've already laid really good groundwork.
- [41:42]
Justin Andrews
I mean, I would think that would be the. The way, like, I'm trying to think of, like, obviously, we're not here yet. And let's. Let's say Katrina and I were struggling with the same thing, like, how I would try and frame this for her. And I, like, you know, this is a. This is a great opportunity for you guys now to watch all your great work unfold. It's like, hey, honey, let's. Let's just. Let's see what he does. You know, we know. We know it's probably a party there, and we know so. And so's there, and we know there's going to be temptation. But, hey, you know, let's see. Let's see how well we did with our boy and see how he reacts. And there should be a lot of excitement and fun to that. And. And, hey, listen, there's a chance he might up, and we'll be there to pick him up and then make sure we help him. But at the same time, too, there's some sort of excitement or. I mean, one of my favorite things to see in even the short period of time, the six years that we've been doing this is when I watch things unfold that we put a lot of work in to make happen.
- [42:31]
Sal DeStefano
That cool.
- [42:32]
Justin Andrews
It's the coolest thing ever because we. Nobody knows better than her and I because we're the ones doing all the work behind the closed doors. And then when you see it manifest in public or in certain behaviors or the way he reacts with his emotions.
- [42:43]
Sal DeStefano
We'Re like, oh, there's that hard work.
- [42:45]
Justin Andrews
Yes. You go, oh, man. That's why we did all that stuff. That's why we had all those long nights. That's why we did those things. Things was to see that. So there's that, you know, also that reward side, I feel like, from that. And when you guys have done a good job and you guys have. So.
- [42:56]
Sal DeStefano
All right, I'm going to take a left and talk about a compound that is just exploding all over the place. Methylene blue. I brought this up on a previous. Yeah, we've all tried it. We finally found a partner that provides it. The company's name is Tro Scriptions. Is that correct, Doug? Do. Am I pronouncing that right?
- [43:12]
Justin Andrews
Yeah.
- [43:13]
Adam Schafer
Correct.
- [43:13]
Sal DeStefano
And so methylene blue is an interesting compound, and it's. It's blowing up now, although it's been around forever. I don't know if you guys knew this, but methyl and blue has been used for a very long time.
- [43:24]
Justin Andrews
Wasn't. This was. Correct me if I'm wrong, because I remember. I thought. I remember hearing about this a long time ago. Fighter jets, guys that fly jets. Aren't they. Aren't they using stuff like this?
- [43:33]
Sal DeStefano
Well, they. Yes, but it was originally created in the 19th century as a. As a. As a textile. Die. So they actually invented it to die. Sound like a horrible picture. And then the bad picture.
- [43:47]
Justin Andrews
We used to use it for dyeing clothes. Now we're sucking on it all day.
- [43:50]
Sal DeStefano
Well, they. Well, they found. Making jeans.
- [43:52]
Doug
I'm just gonna start eating them.
- [43:53]
Sal DeStefano
Well, they found some pretty profound effects, so it's interesting. It's an antidote for a condition called methymoglobinia. I'm not saying that right. It's where hemoglobin cannot effectively carry oxygen. I know I said that wrong. It's antimalarial. It's antiseptic and antimicrobial. And now we see it's very neuroprotective and it seems to have some vasodilation effects. People like methylene blue because it improves mitochondrial function, gives you more energy. It's a MAI inhibitor, natural one, so you get more serotonin, more dopamine. It's like the ultimate nootropic. And it's got like these brain protecting effects. It recently got kind of some. Some press because RFK was. He was using it. He was on a plane, he was like squirting some blue stuff in his water and he was using. It was like, what's going on? So, I mean, this is like, this is a look. This is something you feel for sure. Like you take it and you're like, oh, yeah, this I can totally tell.
- [44:55]
Justin Andrews
What are the side effects? Bad things about it.
- [44:58]
Sal DeStefano
You don't want to take it in combination with MAOI inhibitor because they're going to. They're going to work with each other and you'll get too much of it. But if you take the right dose, most people notice. No, negative.
- [45:09]
Justin Andrews
Now, we've. I know over the years we've been doing this podcast. We have tried all different types of nootropics.
- [45:15]
Sal DeStefano
Yeah.
- [45:16]
Justin Andrews
Would you compare it to anything? Is it. Where does it line up with.
- [45:20]
Sal DeStefano
This is not.
- [45:21]
Justin Andrews
Where does it line up with nicotine? Where does it line up with, like, what's the nasal one that we like? Cmat. Like, where does it line up with all these other nootropics?
- [45:30]
Sal DeStefano
This one is so nicotine. Classic nootropic. C Max. Classic nootropic. Methyl and blue is actually really healthy for the mitochondria of the body. So you get the nootropic effects, but it's got this kind of like, healthy benefit. Yeah. Oh, interesting.
- [45:47]
Doug
Kind of.
- [45:47]
Sal DeStefano
Yeah. And it's not addictive like nicotine. So nicotine, unless you smoke it. Right. It's got some health benefits, but nicotine's addictive. About as addictive as caffeine. They would say methyl and blue isn't. So you take it, go off of it. It's not gonna, you know, you're not gonna get these crazy withdrawals.
- [46:01]
Justin Andrews
Oh, that's interesting.
- [46:03]
Sal DeStefano
But it legit works. For sure. I've used it. I know you guys have used it.
- [46:07]
Doug
Turn my mouth blue.
- [46:08]
Sal DeStefano
Well, okay, so here's. This company has it in a. It's called a buccal troch.
- [46:14]
Adam Schafer
Buccal trochee.
- [46:15]
Sal DeStefano
Troche. That's how you pronounce it. So you can dissolve it in your mouth so that it gets absorbed very quickly, bypasses the liver or. But that'll make your mouth blue for a little bit. Or you could just swallow it on an empty stomach. It just takes longer to work. But this stuff, I mean, it's legit. It's legit. Like. Like if you've. If you've never. If you.
- [46:31]
Justin Andrews
Oh, I felt.
- [46:32]
Sal DeStefano
Want to try something.
- [46:33]
Doug
I did feel it.
- [46:34]
Sal DeStefano
That just makes you feel more awake, more alive, more creative. It's healthy, you know, like I said, mitochondrial health. You give it a shot.
- [46:44]
Justin Andrews
I mean that the re. We've all tried it. The reason why I asked you in comparison to those C max and nicotine, because it reminds me of that kind of feeling I got from that similar type. But you're saying that it's all of that plus has health benefits.
- [46:56]
Sal DeStefano
Yeah, Memory, focus, verbal fluency, all that stuff. So if you like when it feels sharper and.
- [47:03]
Justin Andrews
And because I felt it right away. So I'm assuming it's one of those things too, where you don't have to like, like. Because. Is it cmac, One of those is like you. You to use it and it compounds as you use it more frequently. Where methylene blue is like, the first time you take it, use it, you feel it, right? Yeah, maybe.
- [47:17]
Sal DeStefano
Yeah. That's the one that compounds.
- [47:19]
Justin Andrews
Yeah.
- [47:19]
Sal DeStefano
No, no. And that's a totally worse food. Completely different.
- [47:21]
Doug
Different. Yeah, Completely different pathway.
- [47:23]
Sal DeStefano
No, no, you take it. You feel it. Like you could test it out. Take it in probably 15 to 30 minutes. You're like, oh, yeah, I can totally tell. Yeah.
- [47:30]
Justin Andrews
And I imagine you would. Like. I know we. We tend to promote it for stuff like this. Right. Getting on a podcast or speaking like, things like that. It's not made like.
- [47:39]
Sal DeStefano
Or like, you know, or like you don't. You already had caffeine. You don't have more caffeine. You want something that's going to kind of give you that, like a weakness.
- [47:45]
Justin Andrews
Then, you know, that's how I like even using things like CMAX and nicotine. Any of those ones that have cognitive benefits. After I've already had like caffeine, it's like, I don't want to pile more or I'm in one of those stages.
- [47:55]
Sal DeStefano
Where I love caffeine. You go too High on that? Just. Yeah, that's the opposite.
- [47:59]
Justin Andrews
Yeah, yeah. No. And there's times where I'm trying to reduce it, but then I miss some of the effects from it. So I feel like that's also a cool way to mitigate some of that. Like, so when I'm coming down on caffeine, you might see me use things like the nicotine or, like, then now I'll use methylene blue as a thing to try while I'm coming down. So I still get some of those benefits.
- [48:15]
Sal DeStefano
That's right. One of the side effects. It'll make your pee blue. Just everybody.
- [48:18]
Justin Andrews
It does that too.
- [48:18]
Sal DeStefano
Yeah, yeah.
- [48:19]
Justin Andrews
You'll go.
- [48:20]
Sal DeStefano
Yeah. Just saying that so you don't freak out.
- [48:21]
Justin Andrews
You don't think you're an avatar.
- [48:24]
Sal DeStefano
You got snow.
- [48:25]
Doug
Oh, shit.
- [48:26]
Sal DeStefano
Some weird std.
- [48:27]
Justin Andrews
I never heard about this.
- [48:28]
Sal DeStefano
What the hell's going on here? Why am I peeing?
- [48:30]
Doug
Is this an icy.
- [48:31]
Sal DeStefano
Yeah, no, I took it. It was funny. I told you guys a story. I took it, and I got up in the middle of the night to go pee. Didn't flush the toilet because I don't want to make noise. The next morning, my wife goes in and freaks out, what the hell's in the toilet? What are you taking now? So don't worry.
- [48:44]
Doug
Things are happening inside me.
- [48:45]
Justin Andrews
The. The. The. The peeing outside thing is the newest thing that we're. There's a battle between Katrina and I on that. I. I like it. I don't know what you do it or your son.
- [48:53]
Sal DeStefano
Both of us. I know. It's just.
- [48:56]
Justin Andrews
I think I like it. I don't know. Maybe it's because it's been a long time or since I was probably young, that I had a house where I had the privacy I have. And so, a. There's. There's something about walking out on your property with no underwear or pants on.
- [49:07]
Doug
Oh, I do it all the time.
- [49:08]
Justin Andrews
Peeing with no hands and just standing out in the dirt.
- [49:10]
Sal DeStefano
Oh, you just let it fly.
- [49:11]
Justin Andrews
Oh, yeah. It's so deceased. And it's like, it happens so much now that we'll be in the pool, like, swimming around, and he'll just. He'll just hop out of the pool, pull himself, pull his shorts off to where he's naked, walk over in the. Over in the dirt and just stand there and be. And Katrina's, like, looking at me like, oh, look at you.
- [49:29]
Sal DeStefano
Did.
- [49:29]
Justin Andrews
I'm like, I don't mind, though. And he hasn't done it. Like, he hasn't done it where there's like, public. So I'm like, oh, it's all right.
- [49:39]
Sal DeStefano
Remember? Who was it? Was it Everett that did that in public?
- [49:41]
Doug
He did, yes. We were walking downtown, and there was a tree. Because I trained him to just, like, you know, pee on trees in our backyard, and he just decided to throw his pants down. And that's how.
- [49:53]
Sal DeStefano
That's how little boys. My son, when he pees, he doesn't just pull his pants and he takes them off.
- [49:59]
Justin Andrews
Yeah.
- [50:00]
Sal DeStefano
He takes everything off in the ghost pe.
- [50:02]
Doug
Which is normal, but not for adults.
- [50:05]
Justin Andrews
Yeah, no, bro.
- [50:06]
Doug
I've actually seen that.
- [50:09]
Justin Andrews
I have seen guys, old guys, standing up at a urinal with his. His totally down to his ankles. Yeah. It was like, was that.
- [50:15]
Doug
Is that a power move or like. Like, what is that?
- [50:18]
Sal DeStefano
I almost feel like it's a prank. Like, he told his buddy, like, watch this.
- [50:21]
Justin Andrews
Yeah.
- [50:21]
Doug
I almost want to just slap his butt.
- [50:24]
Justin Andrews
Really?
- [50:25]
Doug
Just for fun.
- [50:27]
Sal DeStefano
Even worse. You just made it worse.
- [50:29]
Justin Andrews
How did you make it worse? Hey, talking. Talking about swimming in the pool and stuff like that. One of the things I have noticed and one of our partners that has been we. I've moved all my Ready to drink element drinks out to my outside refrigerator because I've had multiple people. We've had a lot of people swimming and in the hot tub and things like that. And I have figured out the hot tub and sauna are this way. If I spend 20 minutes or more. And which is funny, because you've always seen the limits that they always put at public places. This makes sense to me. What happens? Well, I get. I don't know about you guys, but once I hit 20 minutes inside the hot tub or the sauna, I will get a headache if I don't hydrate.
- [51:07]
Sal DeStefano
Yes.
- [51:07]
Justin Andrews
And it is. And I've met other people that we've had family, and some of that. They're like, oh, man. Because we've been in there and also drinking alcohol or doing things, so that just exacerbates.
- [51:15]
Doug
It's alcohol. Yeah.
- [51:17]
Justin Andrews
Yeah.
- [51:17]
Doug
Even think about water.
- [51:18]
Justin Andrews
So the move I've been doing, and we had Katrina, everybody over in the hot tub is. And I keep the element out there in the. In the refrigerators. I pour everybody, like, a half glass of it, and just between their champagne and their drinks, give it all to them. I'm like, you'll be fine if you do this. And everybody's been tripping.
- [51:32]
Sal DeStefano
If you sweat a lot, you go a thousand milligrams of sodium. That's what's in a dose of Element. Before Enduring in your performance, you feel way better. So I. My. I have cousins that do jiu jitsu. And obviously in jiu jitsu, especially if you're doing round robin or whatever, you're sweating your ass off. And they'll do Element before and during.
- [51:49]
Doug
Yeah.
- [51:49]
Sal DeStefano
And he's like, bro, it's like a performance enhancer. I'm like, well, your sodium. You sweat a lot, you start to lose your electrolyte balance. Your performance is crap.
- [51:57]
Doug
Yeah.
- [51:58]
Sal DeStefano
You got to balance it out.
- [51:59]
Justin Andrews
Do you think because this is. It's such a big deal for me, do you think it's connected to the frequency that I pee all the time too? Do you think that I'm peeing out at a faster rate and so I'm losing electrolytes faster than.
- [52:11]
Sal DeStefano
You know what's funny? You know what's. Maybe. But you know what's funny about that is that they'll test people's sweat. And not everybody releases the same amount of sodium in their sweat. Some people release more sodium than others.
- [52:19]
Justin Andrews
Well, that's what. So my theory, I don't know if it's connected to me, my peeing frequency, but I know I. I lose it pretty fast like that because it is like clockwork. If I'm in this, if I'm in the sauna or in the hot tub for 20 minutes or more, I'm guaranteed to have a headache if I'm not hydrating while I'm in there.
- [52:35]
Sal DeStefano
Yeah. Dude. I gotta tell you guys, my wife's gonna hate that I share this, but it's hilarious. So she started hormone replacement therapy. She's working with Dr. Lauren Fitz, who's amazing. She's great. Two nights in a row. Two nights. So I'm tired right now. A little bit tired. Not getting good sleep. Because my wife decides either right before we go to bed or after we've started to fall asleep that we're gonna have sex.
- [52:58]
Doug
Wow.
- [52:58]
Sal DeStefano
And I'm like, this is working. But poor. You, like, attacked me, like, two times now. She's just attacked, and I'm, like, ready to go to sleep, and I'm like, you know, I've taken my sleep supplements, and I'm all cozy, ready to go to sleep. And then she just, like, jumps on me and starts. Yeah. Doing things. And so I sent a message to Dr. Fitz.
- [53:17]
Justin Andrews
I'm like, thank you.
- [53:18]
Sal DeStefano
No, I'm like, I'm getting terrible sleep. She's like, what do you mean? Like, it's working too well, I was.
- [53:23]
Justin Andrews
Gonna say, I imagine that if you asked Jessica would She attribute it to that? To she. Oh, yeah, she feels a difference.
- [53:29]
Sal DeStefano
She never had a terrible libido, but this is like. It definitely changed after having kids. And also she's, you know, now mid to late 30s, I think, starts to change a little bit. This is like turbo now.
- [53:44]
Justin Andrews
You guys haven't been together nearly as long as Justin or Katrina and I, but curious if you've already even noticed this, too. Have you noticed in our relationship, we have pivoted three times total now, in the 15 years where we go through phases of who's attacking who in the.
- [54:01]
Sal DeStefano
Relationship, I think that's normal.
- [54:03]
Justin Andrews
Is it to bounce back and forth? You tend to hear this. I tend to hear that the men are most crazy. Then the wife has the kid, and then it goes. Then. Then it's the other way. Like, I did. It happened that way for you, Justin, or has it been consistent across the board?
- [54:15]
Doug
Very much her in the beginning. Yeah, like. Like a lot. And then it. Yeah, it was the kids, but it was still there. And then, like, after the second kid, then it was just like a total reversal, and then it was. It's been that way ever since.
- [54:29]
Justin Andrews
Yeah.
- [54:29]
Sal DeStefano
It is interesting to get, like, pursued and attacked by your wife and not be ready again. It's like a moment of performance anxiety. Oh, I'm not ready.
- [54:37]
Justin Andrews
Well, it's not normal for us as guys. We're used to being the pursuer. Yeah. So when I go when the. The tables are turned, it's.
- [54:43]
Sal DeStefano
It's. Yeah. Yeah, dude. It's just. I wasn't expecting it. You know what I mean? So I was like, Katrina talks to.
- [54:48]
Justin Andrews
Me, so it's gonna work. Yeah, we talk like any other guy would. Would love that. Right. And that's. That's the talking that you get is just like, you know, she thinks that's gonna motivate you. I'm tired, you know, know. I'm tired. I have a headache. I do all the chick excuses. You know what I'm saying?
- [55:03]
Sal DeStefano
She gives you element bloated. This is how you know before you go to bed, she just brings your element.
- [55:09]
Justin Andrews
Well, you're. We talk. We talked about this before. You're okay with this? I'm not a. I'm not a fan. I. I like the. The surprise and the. The whole, like, you're not sure it's going to happen.
- [55:20]
Doug
Spontaneous.
- [55:20]
Justin Andrews
Yeah, spontaneous thing. Katrina is like. Does like. We'll talk about it. Like, oh, you're gonna get it tonight, or. Oh, there's something like that.
- [55:26]
Sal DeStefano
That's great.
- [55:27]
Justin Andrews
You don't See, I don't like that. I like too much pressure. No, I think it's because I know I'm gonna get it. I think the idea that I might have to hunt that night makes it more interesting to me. And so, like, she has to act.
- [55:38]
Sal DeStefano
Like she's not interested.
- [55:39]
Justin Andrews
Yeah.
- [55:40]
Doug
Sharpens my sales.
- [55:41]
Justin Andrews
I'm just. That's. That tends to work more in her favor than it does the other.
- [55:45]
Sal DeStefano
You should listen to the podcast. She'll start sending you. Text. My back hurts. Yeah, I'm going after you. I kind of don't feel good. No, this was. Yeah. Last I texted her this morning, I'm like, you know what? I'm exhausted. So tired, but so grateful.
- [56:01]
Justin Andrews
So worth it.
- [56:01]
Doug
I literally have turned into, like, a second job of being a masseuse.
- [56:06]
Sal DeStefano
That's every husband. That's a husband.
- [56:08]
Doug
Yeah. You start.
- [56:08]
Sal DeStefano
Does she know this? She probably knows. Oh, massage me.
- [56:11]
Doug
Yeah, I mean, I've done that. I wear the. The tool belt, you know, fix things. You know, I'll do all the things. Like I said, it, like, works on my sales skills. You know, every day I'm just like, what angle am I going to go with?
- [56:26]
Sal DeStefano
Today?
- [56:30]
Justin Andrews
We taught. We. We have recently taught Max how. How to massage. And so it's really cute now watching him, like, and he's all. Every time. Katrina will teach him, like, a new technique. So last night, he was. And this is also another thing. When he showers. And he showers now, we don't do baths, right. So we're showering all the time. But when he showers, I think it's. He was. He's so used to having company when he bathed. So he's like, who's going to come in with me? Or who's going to come talk to me while I shower? So he's always wanting one of us to be in the bathroom talking to him. And so last night's conversation was just, daddy, I know this technique. I know this technique. Yeah. He's going over all his massage technique because he heard Katrina say to me, like, hey, honey, I'm going to massage you tonight. And he started asking like, daddy, you want me to massage you? I'm better than Mommy, right? And he's trying to get me to say that. I'm like, hold on, bro, don't say that in front of her like that. Like, you say that to me when we're behind closed doors. Tell mom she's a not a better massage than you. That's going to offend her. So he was telling me all the techniques that he has while he's in the shower. It's really cute.
- [57:22]
Sal DeStefano
Yeah. My kids tell Jessica they're like, you're really good at being loving. And she's like, okay, something's going to come after this. But papa is way more fun. I mean. Yeah, I know, I know I got something right.
- [57:37]
Doug
Yeah.
- [57:38]
Sal DeStefano
Paleo Valley has a 100% grass fed bone broth protein that is by far the most tasty protein I've ever had in my entire life. Their chocolate tastes like chocolate donuts. No sugar. I don't know how they do it. It's all natural, minimally processed. It's delicious. They also have a salted caramel flavor. My wife adds it to her coffee. Tastes so good. Super easy to digest. It's the best protein powder for gut health. Go try it out. Go to paleovalley.com that's P A L E O valley.com mindpump on that link. You'll get 15% off. Back to the show.
- [58:14]
Adam Schafer
First question is from Ernie Meyer. What are your thoughts on day long workouts? I work from home most days and I like to spread my workout throughout the day.
- [58:22]
Justin Andrews
Oh man. Sal is a big fan of these. Remember when you first started talking about these?
- [58:26]
Sal DeStefano
Yeah. And have you experienced?
- [58:27]
Justin Andrews
I have, I think, I mean the reason why we don't talk a lot about this is because very few people can do this. Last thing you want to do is like rub it in people's eye that we get these workouts that we have.
- [58:38]
Sal DeStefano
To do all day long.
- [58:39]
Justin Andrews
But I have done these several times and I, I love it. And if you are a work from home, mom or dad, I think and it's, I think it's, it's so good that you could take, let's say the person the, the hour workout that you do the exact same everything but you just spread it out in these micro workouts all day and it will be better. It's better and so, and not more effective.
- [59:03]
Doug
It is better. You recover better. You have more strength. It's crazy.
- [59:07]
Justin Andrews
You get more, you get more energy throughout the day. You don't get fatigued at all because they're so short. Man. If you had the luxury to do this even if you can't do all time and you just want to experiment with it. Great idea. Oh great. We have this, this and I was guilty of this even as a trainer that we had to like really train hard in this hour and I was pursuing sweat and soreness and I had this massive pump.
- [59:34]
Sal DeStefano
Yeah.
- [59:34]
Doug
Like that hour matters.
- [59:35]
Justin Andrews
Yeah.
- [59:36]
Doug
And like Stay conf.
- [59:38]
Justin Andrews
And like the. In the. And the intensity and the soreness and the pump and the sweat had some sort of contribution towards my results. And it's, like, not true. You could take, like I said, that workout and break it up in these, say, 10 really short workouts, and you will get as good, if not potentially better results.
- [59:56]
Sal DeStefano
You get better results. So the Soviets would experiment on stuff like this because they could, right? Their athletes just did what they told them. But one way to do this if you have the time, is you do maybe like five of these workouts or something, and you do every other hour, you'll do two or three sets of, let's say, two exercises. And if you want to really make it interesting, do the same exercises. And what you want to do is you want to pick a weight that is not so heavy that you feel like you're not going to be able to continue to perform this. You want something moderately heavy. So let's say you'd say you could do 10 reps with 3, 15 on the squat. Well, here's what it would look like. 9am you do five reps, two sets, so half as many as you normally do. It would with squats. 10am comes, you don't do a workout. 11am you do it again. Five reps, two sets, noon, you skip it. One, you do it again. And you do this throughout the whole day. And you can do like two or three exercises. I've done this. And it's remarkable. You actually find that by the halfway point, you actually start to get stronger. As you get central nervous system adaptation, you're able to complete all the workouts by the end. But then when you look at the math, at the total volume we've done for these exercises, way more than you'd ever accomplish in a workout. And I swear, when I do something like this, I'm stronger the next time, by the next week.
- [61:15]
Justin Andrews
It reminds. That advice you're giving right now reminds me of like, the, the macro version of cluster sets. I think that's how I, if I'm saying that correctly, like, you know, cluster sets take the same kind of philosophy, is like, pick a weight that you could probably do 10 to 15 reps, but then stop it at 6, but then only put it down for 10 seconds and pick it back up and do it again, do it again. And then what you'll notice is at the end of the cluster set, you'll have. You will have done more volume than you would have done if you'd done five traditional straight sets of that same weight or more. And so it's fascinating how that works.
- [61:47]
Sal DeStefano
So there's, there's two ways that I would apply this. This is for fitness fanatics who live love to have fun with. This one is I want to get a particular lift to improve in a short period of time. Well, then what you do is you pick that lift and that's the one that you practice every other hour, probably for four or five workouts throughout the day, by the way, being a calorie surplus. So every other hour when you're not doing this workout, you're feeding yourself and you're not training at full intensity. That's a great way to wreck this. It's a kind of moderate to moderate high at most intensity. And what you'll see is after you're done with this, by the fifth day of recovery, you go attempt this again, you're stronger. That's how fast it works. The other way to apply this is if you want a lagging body part to come up. I mean, you can add. I mean, and I've seen this, I've actually had people go through this. A quarter inch to your arms in a day and it literally looks like three. Let's say you want your biceps and triceps to grow. You do two or three sets for biceps and triceps every other hour throughout the entire day. Again, maybe five or six of these. So you don't want to go until midnight, but five or six of them. And you feed yourself accordingly. Measure your arms before you do it. Measure your arms. Three days later, you'll probably have bigger arms. This will work on your glutes, it'll work on your pecs, it'll work on your delts. But it's a crazy commitment. It requires you to be next to your gym all day long, have food prepared and doing nothing else. But fitness fanatics probably getting excited right now. Home gym is the best.
- [63:08]
Adam Schafer
Next question is from zemecka72. How to break through plateaus. I've been stuck on preacher curls, among others, for two months.
- [63:16]
Sal DeStefano
You know, something like a preacher curl. Change the exercise is what I would say. I mean, it's as simple as that. Like, stop doing preacher curls. Maybe do something like an incline curl with your biceps in a stretch. Do that for a month, go back to your preacher curls and watch what happens. Sometimes it's as easy as that.
- [63:32]
Justin Andrews
It is, it is this. It's as easy as. And I know you gave an example, but I would say something that's less specific but more directed, like Pick an exercise you don't hardly ever do for girls and go get strong at it. So that could be straight bar curls, that could be cable curls, that could be hammer curls. It could be alternating biceps. I mean, whatever one you don't find the one you suck at, in other words. Right. And go get good at it and just stick to that and let. And that. The. The beauty of this skill is psychologically, it's challenging because it's asking you to walk away from something you've watched yourself get really strong at, and now you're plateaued to go do something that you suck at again. But the benefits of that, of leaving that, going to something else, getting really good and strong at that, when you return back to preacher girls, you'll break through that plateau. That's. That's really the. The art of that. But psychologically, especially for my dudes, it's always difficult to do that because it means that they have to go embrace the suck and what they're not good at to go pursue that for a while, and then they'll come back to that thing and they'll be good at it.
- [64:32]
Sal DeStefano
Yeah. And, you know, and this is. This is better for these kind of exercises, but a mistake is to just add volume. That would be a mistake. Sometimes that works, but oftentimes it doesn't. Another thing you could do is take that same exercise and pause the reps and make it an isometric fashion. So instead of doing your traditional preacher curl, you're taking maybe a lighter weight and you're stopping for 10 seconds at the bottom. 10 seconds a little higher. 10 seconds a little higher. That's one rep. So you're changing the exercise, essentially, which is not that different from what we said, but those pause reps.
- [65:03]
Justin Andrews
The challenge of that, though, is it goes back to the ego thing. You're going to have to reduce the weight significantly.
- [65:07]
Sal DeStefano
That's right. You got to change it.
- [65:08]
Justin Andrews
Yep.
- [65:09]
Adam Schafer
Next question is from Dragon Pauls. I'm about as beginner as a beginner can get when it comes to lifting, to the point that I don't even know how to get started, and I have no clue what my baseline is. Do I just go to the weight bench and throw on some plates? What is the very first step for someone who has never lifted?
- [65:28]
Sal DeStefano
Okay, I'm going to give you the best answer. Okay, that's. It's not always available to people, but it's the best answer. Find a good trainer. I said good trainer because there's some that are not great, but find a good Trainer. Nothing is going to be as effective as hiring a good trainer. You literally have your own personal coach there who understands exercise programming, understands how to train individuals, because everybody's different, and they're going to progress you from beginner to intermediate faster than any other possible thing you could do. Now, a good second option that's more available to people would be to get one of our beginner programs like mapstarter. It's a great second option because it's not nearly as expensive. Trainers can cost quite a bit. You've got the videos in there that you could watch with the demonstrations and try to copy them. But again, the best answer is hire a trainer.
- [66:14]
Doug
Yeah, well, it just reminds me of, you know, some of the dysfunction that I experienced just trying to learn guitar on my own. And I obviously bought a book that had chords in it, and I can hear, you know, how certain songs and the progression goes. But I built a lot of bad habits along the way, and that was just something that I. If I were to actually pursue it seriously and be. Consider myself really good at it and proficient at it, I would need to go learn from somebody, a teacher, to then break me of these bad habits, which I could have started off learning these, you know, the proper, you know, mechanics, the way to hold my hand position, you know, to, you know, really be effective and build on that. So much easier.
- [67:04]
Justin Andrews
Your brain went the same place mine I went. I thought of golf right away, and I made the same mistake with golf. And everybody told me, you should go get a coach. You should get a coach to start you off.
- [67:13]
Doug
And.
- [67:13]
Justin Andrews
And now I have all these bad patterns and habits, and it's going to make me feel like I got to take all these steps backwards to be able to. And so this is the beauty of being at the beginning, right? Saying that you are a beginner of all beginners right now. That's awesome. You have a clean slate. Like, you have an opportunity to have a professional lay a solid foundation from you, and the return on investment that you will get from that is exponentially higher than it will be at any other time in your career. So if you go do what Justin's saying or go try and figure it out for yourself forever, and then you realize, man, I should have got a coach. Then you get a coach, then that coach, as valuable as they will be, even then they'll be less valuable than what they are right now. Right now. The. The ROI you will get on learning good behaviors and patterns. To Sal's point, it's going to compound so much Faster. You'll get so much further ahead by laying that solid foundation. So I'm, I'm with you. I would sell. You know, if you don't have the funds to do that, then following a program like Map Starter and then going into Maps Anabolic would be. Be a great segue to that. I mean, Map Starter is called that for a reason. It's what we consider the ultimate beginner program. Someone who's never touched a weight before just trying to get started. This is how we would progress. Most of our clients is with a program like that. And then when they're ready, we would move them over to Maps Anabolic. And that would depend on how you feel after starter. If you, if you feel pretty proficient at it, the movements seem like you got them down pretty good, then I'm move the Anabolic. If you felt like even that was challenging and your form was all over the place, I might have you run it a second time and then move over to Maps Anabolic. But without a coach and trainer, that's the direction I would put you if you don't go higher.
- [68:45]
Sal DeStefano
And I got to say this too, in regards to the cost of hiring a trainer, you know, time is money. So yes, it's more expensive on its face to hire a trainer. You work with a trainer twice a week for, you know, two months. It's going to cost you 1,000, $2,000. That's a, you know, it's a big ticket price. But when you add, when you factor in the results, the getting your body to a particular place, what you'll learn the carryover for the rest of your life from what you'll learn from them, the time that you haven't wasted, it's so worth it. And I'm saying that because people will often spend a thousand dollars on a piece of technology like a new phone, a toy. But you say hire a trainer. Yeah, but you say hire a trainer. Oh, my God, that's, that's too much money. Like I can't think of. There's almost nothing that will give you a better return on investment than hiring a good personal trainer. It's almost invaluable.
- [69:39]
Adam Schafer
Next question is from it's all about habits. You always mentioned going for a walk after a meal. Does going before eating have the same benefits or not?
- [69:47]
Justin Andrews
Not the same, but similar. It is beneficial, but it's not the same.
- [69:51]
Sal DeStefano
Yeah. So what happens when you act when you move a muscle? There's something called the gluten for something called GLUT4 on the cell. This is a receptor that sits inside the cell. When you exercise a muscle, it moves to the outside of the cell. And what it does, it draws in glucose. Okay, so draws in glucose, so it improves insulin sensitivity. So if you walk before, you will move that GLUT4 receptor to the outside of the cell. But it only stays there for so long. Now it does have some time, so you still get some of the effects, right? And the more intense the workout is, by the way, the longer it stays there after you eat. This is when you want to move it there the most. This is why postprandial has the greatest effects on insulin sensitivity. There's also another factor here, which is digestion. Okay? Walking after you eat improves digestion. Walking before you eat has minimal benefit, some benefit, but minimal benefits on digestion. Why? Why does it help digestion when I walk after 8? Well, when you walk, first of all, gravity is working. Food needs to move down the digestive tract, down through the intestines, the digestive.
- [70:57]
Doug
Tract, and everything kind of compresses and moves everything along.
- [71:00]
Sal DeStefano
If you look at the muscles that go through the body, that attach to the hips and the legs, they move around the digestive system. Moving those around like literally moves food through the body. So walking before is way better than nothing. Walking after is the best, best way to approach it. Look, if you like the show, come find us on Instagram. You can find all of us and the show at mindpump Media.
- [71:24]
Adam Schafer
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