2651: Four Secret Hacks for Superhuman Strength

Summary

Mind Pump Podcast Episode 2651: Four Secret Hacks for Superhuman Strength

Release Date: July 30, 2025

In Episode 2651 of Mind Pump: Raw Fitness Truth, hosts Sal Di Stefano, Adam Schafer, and Justin Andrews delve deep into the science of building superhuman strength. Drawing from over 40 years of combined experience in the fitness industry, the hosts break down four essential, often overlooked methods that transcend mere muscle growth. This comprehensive discussion offers actionable insights backed by scientific research, making it invaluable for fitness enthusiasts seeking to maximize their strength and performance.

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1. Maximizing Central Nervous System (CNS) Output

Adam Schafer kicks off the conversation by emphasizing the crucial role of the CNS in strength development. He likens the CNS to an amplifier: "If your speaker is big and powerful but your amplifier is weak, you're not going to put out much sound" ([04:20]). This analogy underscores that muscle strength alone doesn't dictate overall strength; the CNS's ability to recruit and coordinate muscle fibers plays a pivotal role.

Key Points:

• CNS Training: Heavy, moderate-intensity lifts with multiple sets help train the CNS to handle greater loads.
• Skill Development: Mastery of specific lifts enhances CNS efficiency, allowing for better muscle coordination. As Adam notes, being proficient in a particular lift can lead to significant strength gains even without additional muscle mass.
• Recovery Importance: Quality sleep and rest are vital for CNS health. Poor sleep can impair CNS function, leading to increased injury risk. Adam states, "Getting good sleep is a recipe for a healthy, powerful central nervous system" ([07:45]).
• CNS Stimulants: Caffeine and other stimulants can temporarily boost CNS output, enhancing strength by 5-10%. However, overreliance can lead to CNS fatigue.

Notable Quote:

"Oftentimes what's limiting your strength is not necessarily the strength of your muscles, but rather your central nervous system hasn't been trained to put out the juice to get your body." — Adam Schafer ([04:27])

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2. Enhancing Tendon Strength

Moving beyond muscles, the hosts highlight the importance of tendon strength in lifting performance. Adam Schafer uses the analogy of a powerful truck connected by a weak fishing line to illustrate how tendon strength can limit overall strength.

Key Points:

• Tendon vs. Muscle Strength: Strong tendons are often the bottleneck in achieving maximum strength. Without robust tendons, even well-developed muscles cannot exert their full potential.
• Isometric Training: Holding weights at specific angles (e.g., a squat hold at 70-80% of max) for 30 seconds is highly effective in strengthening tendons. Adam mentions, "Isometrics are a relatively short window... they are getting besides the central nervous system because it does that well, is you are strengthening those tendons."
• Slow Negatives: Performing slow eccentric movements (e.g., slowly lowering a weight) can significantly enhance tendon strength. Studies show a 15% improvement in tendon strength within 8-12 weeks through these methods.
• Rehabilitation and Prevention: Incorporating tendon-strengthening exercises can prevent injuries and aid in recovery from existing tendon issues.

Notable Quote:

"Isometrics... produce as fast of results in strength with the lowest risk as isometric." — Adam Schafer ([17:32])

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3. Improving Stability in Joints

Stability is crucial for translating strength into functional performance. Adam Schafer explains that without adequate joint stability, the body's ability to exert power is compromised, leading to poor performance and increased injury risk.

Key Points:

• Unilateral Exercises: Engaging in one-legged or one-armed exercises helps correct imbalances and enhance joint stability. Programs like MAPs Symmetry focus on unilateral movements to address these issues.
• Movement in Multiple Planes: Training across different planes of motion prevents the body from becoming too strong in one direction, which can lead to compensatory movements and potential injuries.
• Practical Applications: Simple exercises like overhead holds, suitcase carries, and walking with weights can significantly improve stability. Adam suggests, "Training different planes... keeps you from moving like your body is trying to keep you in one direction."
• Functional Training: Exercises that mimic real-world scenarios, such as single-arm rows with stabilizing stances, enhance the body's ability to maintain stability under dynamic conditions.

Notable Quote:

"Stability is your joint's ability to stabilize and control the power and strength that you're trying to produce." — Adam Schafer ([19:28])

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4. Developing Speed and Velocity in Muscle Contractions

Speed training, or the ability of muscles to contract rapidly, is the fourth secret hack discussed. This aspect of strength training is particularly beneficial for athletic performance, where quick and powerful movements are essential.

Key Points:

• Plyometrics and Throws: Incorporating fast, explosive movements such as plyometric exercises and medicine ball throws can enhance muscle contraction speed.
• Concentric vs. Eccentric Movements: Emphasizing fast concentric (lifting) phases while maintaining control during eccentric (lowering) phases can improve overall speed without compromising form.
• Powerlifting Practices: Even traditional powerlifters incorporate speed work to complement their slow, heavy lifts, recognizing the benefits of explosive strength.
• Athletic Strength: Speed strength training translates to better performance in sports, where the ability to generate force quickly is crucial. Adam notes, "It's like how fast can you be strong? That's what makes you dangerous."

Notable Quote:

"Speed contributes a lot to strength. To the point where powerlifters also do these days, where they're training speed even though their lifts are very slow, because that's not the name of the game for powerlifting." — Adam Schafer ([25:02])

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Supplementary Insights and Practical Tips

Sleep and Recovery:

• Quality sleep is paramount for CNS recovery and overall muscle health. Poor sleep patterns can lead to diminished performance and increased injury susceptibility.

Probiotics and Athletic Performance:

• The hosts discuss the emerging science linking gut health with athletic performance. Probiotics, particularly those from Seed, have been shown to enhance strength and endurance by improving muscle health and reducing inflammation. Adam shares, "Good bacteria produce neurotransmitters... they help with inflammation, they help with muscle health and insulin sensitivity" ([53:25]).

Tackling Overtraining and Injury Prevention:

• The guests emphasize the importance of recognizing and addressing overtraining symptoms. Incorporating low-intensity activities like yoga and stretching can aid in recovery without adding excessive strain.

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Listener Q&A Highlights

Throughout the episode, the hosts engage with callers, providing personalized advice on topics ranging from managing hormonal imbalances to transitioning from CrossFit to more sustainable training programs. Notably, Adam Schafer offers guidance on:

• Balancing Training Volume: Ensuring that increased volume on lagging body parts doesn't lead to overtraining, especially during cutting phases.
• Hormone Replacement Therapy: For individuals struggling with hormonal imbalances, integrating hormone replacement can accelerate strength and muscle gains while supporting recovery.
• Injury Management: Practical tips for maintaining effective training modalities without exacerbating existing injuries, such as tweaking squat forms to protect a bulging disc.

Notable Quote from a Caller:

"You are progressing. You are actually doing incredibly well. The other side of this, too, is especially for women in that age group, no matter what you do, you are going to have a fundamental hormone shift." ([104:04])

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Conclusion

Episode 2651 of Mind Pump delivers a thorough exploration of the multifaceted nature of strength training. By addressing CNS output, tendon strength, joint stability, and muscle contraction speed, the hosts provide a holistic approach to achieving superhuman strength. Coupled with actionable advice and scientific backing, this episode is a must-listen for anyone committed to elevating their fitness journey beyond conventional muscle-building paradigms.

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Connect with Mind Pump:

• Instagram: @mindpumpmedia, @mindpumpsal, @mindpumpadam, @mindpumpjustin, @mindpumpdoug
• Website: mindpumppodcast.com
• Training Programs: mapsfitnessproducts.com

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Disclaimer: The information provided in this summary is based on the podcast transcript and is intended for informational purposes only. Always consult with a qualified fitness professional or healthcare provider before making significant changes to your training or nutrition regimen.

Transcript

[Sal Di Stefano]

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[Adam Schafer]

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[Justin Andrews]

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[Doug]

If you want to pump your body and expand your mind, there's only one place to go.

[Adam Schafer]

Mind Pump Mind Pump with your hosts.

[Doug]

Sal Destefano, Adam Schafer and Justin Andrews.

[Adam Schafer]

You just found the most downloaded fitness, health and entertainment podcast. This is Mind Pump. In today's episode, people called in and we coach them on air. We help them with their health in fitness on air. But this was after the intro portion of the show. Today's intro is 61 minutes long. In the intro we talk about fitness, science, training, fat loss, muscle gain. It's a great time. By the way, if you want to be on an episode like this where you can call in and we'll coach you on air. Send us your question liveindpumpmedia.com now this episode is brought to you by some sponsors. The first one is Legion Athletics. They make incredible supplements. Today I talked about their egg protein powder, chocolate and vanilla. It tastes good, extremely high quality and right now if you go to buylegion.com mindpump and if you use the code Mind Pump, if you buy one, you get one for 50% off if you're a new customer. If you're a returning customer, you'll get 20% cash back. This episode is also brought to you by seed, the world's best probiotic. Today I talked about how probiotics improve athletic performance, strength and endurance. In fact, more people are taking Probiotics for athletic performance today than ever before. And if you choose one, go with seed. Go check them out. Go to seed.com mindpump Use the code 25. Mindpump. Get 25% off. We also have a sale on some workout programs this month. Maps split in the Anabolic Metabolism bundle of programs is all 50% off. Just head over to mapsfitnessproducts.com and then use the code JULY50 for the discount. Back to the show.

[Caller]

T shirt time.

[Doug]

And it's T shirt time.

[Caller]

Ah, shit, Doug. You know it's my favorite time of the week.

[Doug]

Today we have one winner for Apple podcasts. That's Chelsea Rose and the name I just read Chelsea over to itunesindpumpmedia.com include your shirt size and your shipping address and we'll get that shirt right out to you. And for the rest of you, if you leave a review, you have a very good chance of winning.

[Adam Schafer]

You are probably missing four secret methods to getting to superhuman strength. It's not just your muscles. There's other things that contribute. And believe me, when you focus on them, you're going to get stronger than ever. We're going to talk about them today.

[Caller]

Wow.

I like secrets.

Yeah, I know. I'm listening to this one.

[Adam Schafer]

Yes.

[Caller]

Let me hear superhero serum stuff.

[Adam Schafer]

So, strength. Whenever people think about strength, especially in the fitness community, we tend to almost always, especially outside the fitness community, if you talk about strength, what makes you strong? Muscles. Muscles make you strong. Well, while there's truth to that, obviously your muscles are contracting and that's what's making you stronger. There are other factors that play just as big a role, sometimes even bigger roles than the muscles themselves. And if you figure them out and start to target them specifically with training, because you can, you can actually target the ones we're going to talk about today with training, what you'll find is you're going to reach new levels of strength. Now, the strength athletes that know this the best, historically, I would say, are Olympic lifters. There's been a lot of science in Olympic lifting and they have figured out a lot of this stuff. So, yeah, getting really strong isn't just about building big muscles. It has a lot to do with other things. For example, we'll talk about the first one, your central nervous system output. The central nervous system. I've used this analogy in the past. If you think of a speaker and an amplifier, if your speaker is big and powerful but your amplifier is weak, you're not going to put out much sound. So your central nervous system is the amplifier. And in fact, oftentimes what's limiting your strength is. Isn't necessarily the strength of your muscles, but rather your central nervous system hasn't been trained to put out the juice to get your body.

[Caller]

Well, you know what's crazy is like this is something that I don't think was discussed a lot when I was growing up. I was always mystified by like your, your smaller guy that was like lean and was stronger than somebody that was like twice the size.

[Adam Schafer]

Yes.

[Caller]

Of muscle mass wise. And I'm like, you know, there, there are some weird theories like you know, floating through my head, like how does that even work? And you know, the central nervous system and being able to recruit and summon that amount of force, like explains it beautifully.

Yeah, I think that this is one of the, my favorite things that Sal has said on this podcast. I think of the handful of things that we've all like probably taken from each other. And I have repeated that to so many people. And maybe it's the maybe because I was a big speaker nut guy. That's why that analogy hits home for me so much makes perfect because I understand in that world like the amplify fire is where the real value is. But most people, I think, think about the speakers. Oh, how big are they? And it's like, dude, it doesn't matter if your amp is weak. You could have the biggest, baddest looking speakers ever, but you're not going to get hardly anything out of them.

[Adam Schafer]

Sucks.

[Caller]

That is, that is more important and to your point, Justin, I think that's why that again that analogy hit so home for me was that nobody ever talked about that. It was not even my early years as a personal trainer. It wasn't communicated. It wasn't communicated hardly at all. It wasn't till much later did I really learn about that and understand the, the power and value of that. And then it then all of a sudden the aha, light bulb moment happened. When you meet people like Mike Salemi or like Jordan say, I mean kind. I just went an interview with Jordan, say this last weekend and I forget, bro, he is like, you know, this is not a jab at you, Jordan all but I mean we took a picture together. I'm like, he is, he's like, he's half the size of me.

[Adam Schafer]

Half.

[Caller]

And he out deadlifts me, you know what I'm saying? Like, it's just CR and that. So I'm not like the strongest guy at that, but I'm decently strong. You're Strong, right? I'm decently strong.

[Adam Schafer]

He's insanely strong.

[Caller]

He's insanely strong. And the fact.

[Adam Schafer]

So lifetime natural.

[Caller]

Yeah, and lifetime natural. So it's unbelievable to me to think how much power the human body can generate even out of a smaller frame like that. And that's a testament to somebody who is honed in and is reaping the max benefits of their cns.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah, you're seeing it's, this is so you can train your cns. There's ways crazy and we'll get to that. But when they've done studies on this and the average person's central nervous system will only allow the average person to generate something like 40 to 50% of their capacity. So it's, it's limited. So. So think of the amplifier again. Right. Or think of a car. Think of a car with a rev limiter. Like it can go 200 miles an hour. My rev limiter starts me, stops me at 130. Many people have this rev limiter on their CNS because they don't train it properly. Now they've done studies on Olympic lifters.

[Caller]

Now wait, wait, before you say that even I think I've seen the comparison of regular people, even very trained people. And then Olympic lifters.

[Adam Schafer]

Yes, I was just going to say Olympic lifters. They're the ones that have been shown to probably get estimated close to 90 something percent.

[Caller]

As I say, I thought they were mid to high 90s. I think the most average person or the person who lifts is like 70.

[Adam Schafer]

That's right.

[Caller]

That's right. Like one of us would be 70 to 80.

[Adam Schafer]

This is why you see these 160 pound Olympic lifters. Yeah. You know, throwing weights up in the 4 or 500, which is, it's just apples. Absolutely insane. And so the central nervous system is like it is power and strength. So the question of course is how do I train my central nervous system? There's a few things that you could do. One, the data shows that heavy, moderate intensity multiple set type lifts or lifting tends to do this well. So power lifters tend to train this way with specific lifts. Right. So you're doing sets of three reps with something you could probably do five reps or six reps with. You're doing multiple sets and what you're doing is you're training the central nervous system to get comfortable, putting out strength and power. It's also skill. Okay. When you're lifting something, it's not just muscles randomly contracting, it's muscles working in tandem in a coordinated effort. To do a particular exercise. In other words, there's a skill to strength. There's a large amount of skill to strength. So this is why you could take someone who, let's say, is incredibly strong at a particular lift that uses the same muscles as another lifter doing a certain lift, but if they don't practice that specific lift, they're not going to be as strong. In other words, you can be great on the leg press, great on the hack squat. It's not going to necessarily translate 100% over to a barbell squat because of the skill component, that is your central nervous system organizing your muscles to work together. So another way to maximize central nervous system output for specific lifts is to practice those lifts. But practice them, don't use them as exercises. In other words, if I want to get good at the overhead press, minimize intensity, that's it. There's going to be some days I'm going to train hard, but oftentimes I'm just practicing it. And I'm practicing it with a weight that I can normally handle, but I'm getting really good at the skill of that particular.

[Caller]

You know, another analogy or expression of that that we see in real life is like professional sports. Like the baseball player who can throw a ball at 106 miles an hour is that. But he's got these jacked muscles that do that. So what is it? It's his ability to organize all those muscles and together whip that ball at that high of a speed. And that's from the practice, the practice of doing that so many times. He's gotten so good at that. And so we see that at these very high levels of sports. But you can bring that into your everyday training.

[Adam Schafer]

That's right.

[Caller]

Learning how to do that really well. And then again then, now you reap the benefits of being able to lift really heavy weight.

[Adam Schafer]

That's right. And oftentimes when you do, like, follow like maps, anabolic phase one, they'll talk about this like, oh my God, my strength went through the roof. A lot of that strength they see in that first phase is central nervous system adaptation. You know, you go up 30 pounds, you'll build some muscle. But a lot of it is just your CNS is really learning how to turn up. Because that phase one is a lot of this style of training. The other thing too is to get good sleep. Your central nervous system needs rest and sleep. By the way, this is probably why getting poor sleep is so closely connected to injury. Your central nervous system also helps prevent injury. And when things misfire or are not firing the way they should. This is when you get muscle tears and sprains and getting poor sleep. It's like dampening or weakening your central nervous system. So really good sleep, really good rest is a recipe for a healthy, powerful central nervous system. And then finally, you can use stimulants. So this is why the data shows that caffeine will improve strength by 5 or 10% consistently. Muscles didn't grow. You just took a stimulant. That ramped up your CNS a little bit. This is also why getting angry will make you stronger. Right.

[Caller]

Heavy metal is amazing for lifting weights.

[Adam Schafer]

But you can also over fatigue your cns. Right? So you'll see this with sports. I remember when I did jiu jitsu and I was competing. I remember having so much stamina in the gym, training with my partners and then going on a tournament and one three minute match gassed me out and I couldn't figure it out. And I realized what it was. I was just too amped leading up to the match. I was amping myself the entire time. Then when I got there, skills to.

[Caller]

Learn how to calm.

[Adam Schafer]

That's right. My CNS was fried.

[Caller]

Well, this is also, I think a good, a good time. Or to bring up like how we teach trainers to modify intensity with clients. Like we, you know, use the dynamometers.

[Adam Schafer]

Dynamometer.

[Caller]

Dynamometers, you know that like basically are measuring their cns. Right? Like that's exactly what that is. How fatigued or not they are. And I think of all the tools that are out there, they're better than the HRV and all the sophisticated tracking that we have and apps and wearables that we have, those things are great. But I think nothing is better than if you had a client and you tested every time you guys trained and you found their baseline, what high and what low days look like. You now have this incredible gauge of right before you train that client. You have them squeeze and you're like, oh, Sal's running a little low today, so I'm going to back off my or. Oh, Sal is squeezing at his max level right now. This is the day we're going to ramp up intensity. Not a lot of trainers do this. I, I remember when we first had defranco on and I heard him talk about like, oh, nobody ever taught me that. I wish that was something, a tool I use. I mean, I'm always talking to our trainers in here, like trying to teach them. These are ways that you can separate yourself from your peers. It's incredibly intelligent way of coaching and training. It's very simple for you. I don't even know how expensive those things are. They're super cheap. And, and you, and all you have to do is do it really consistent for like a week or two with your clients. You have your base to have some sort of a baseline and then literally right before they come in, you have them squeeze out and you're like, okay, I know what. And then you modify and you know.

Like that's in that self awareness too. With your client.

Yes.

I was running these with, with the students for when I was training them for football and it was just like so enlightening because they would, they would understand like where they were in terms of what they could organize and what they could get in terms of grip strength. And it's like, okay, well, you know, based off of this, I'm outputting about half of what I did, you know, last week. So I'm going to have to kind of tailor my workouts a bit.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah. Not to go off on a tangent with that, but as experienced trainers before we had objective tools like that. It takes a while, but you just learn your clients mannerisms and energy. So you have to learn. But that took me 10 years.

[Caller]

Oh, yeah. And you're still kind of guessing.

[Adam Schafer]

I wish I had a dynamometer and.

[Caller]

Knew how to use is. And I remember when Joe said a huge light bulb moment for me that I went, oh my God, how can I?

[Adam Schafer]

That's what makes him such a good coach.

[Caller]

Oh, 100%. And if you're a trainer and you're listening, you're always trying to find ways to separate yourself from your peers. Going above and beyond in your service business. What a great way to do that. If you don't own. Own one of those and you haven't done this. That takes.

[Adam Schafer]

Or do it on yourself.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

And do it on yourself. And then you can, you could judge the intensity of your next workout. All right, next up is tendon strength. This does not get talked about enough. Your muscles attach to tendons and if your tendons are not strong, you're not going to lift as much, period. End of story. And the analogy I like to use with this is like imagine you have a 2000 horsepower diesel truck and you're going to pull something really heavy. But what you use to connect the truck to the thing you're going to tow with is a skinny string fishing line. It ain't going anywhere. That power is doing nothing. Tendon strength is extremely, extremely important. And oftentimes the limiting factor Oftentimes, in fact, I would say more often than not, the limiting factor to somebody's strength is their tendon strength and not their muscle strength. So the question is, well, how do I get my tendons stronger? Doesn't just getting my muscles stronger strengthen my tendons? Yes. However, we have great data showing that specific types of training are more effective for tendon strength, and other types of training are more effective for muscle contraction strength. Muscle strength, Traditional strength training, tendon strength. 32nd isometrics. 32nd isometrics are exceptionally good at strengthening the tendons. They're safe. So what does that look like? Well, let's say you have a little patellar tendon pain or whatever in your knee. Well, what you would do is you'd get down on a squat with a weight that's about 70%, 80% of your max, and you'd hold it for 30 seconds. That's your set. That kind of training has been shown to improve tendon strength and hypertrophy more than traditional strength training. And how often do people do that kind of.

[Caller]

How would you not. Not enough. And how would you size up something like kin stretch compared to what you just gave as an example of like, loading it and holding it for 30 seconds versus doing like a kin stretch?

[Adam Schafer]

So kin stretch would be more trying to connect to a movement.

[Caller]

Yeah, still building. Still isometric. Still connecting.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah. But building tendon strength resistance. Yes.

[Caller]

Okay.

[Adam Schafer]

You're overcoming love. Right, Right. Which. Which also. Here's the other one that's been shown. Super, super slow mo. Slow negatives. Yeah. So you get a heavy weight and you do a really slow negative with it. The tendons seem to strengthen better with that as well. And like I said, in fact, there was one study I looked up, and I believe it was an eight week or 12 weeks, so not very long. They strengthened the patellar tendon with these isometrics and slowed negatives by 15%. Wow. In that short period of time, I'm gonna tell you, listen, this is what's crazy about this, and I think this is why. One of the reasons why isometrics.

[Caller]

Oh, I geeked out.

[Adam Schafer]

If you look on the data on isometrics, there is no form of strength training that produces as fast of results in strength with the lowest risk as isometric. Yeah. It's a relatively short window. So it's like, it doesn't keep working forever. Although when you combine it with traditional strength training, you stretch it out indefinitely, essentially. But in terms of short strength gains, like. Like. Like eight weeks. Isometrics are crazy. And I think this is part of it. I think part of it is it's getting besides the central nervous system, because it does that well, is you are strengthening those tendons.

[Caller]

It's silly to me that it's not protocol to take somebody who's just learning, you know, anything involved with, like, exercises to not first have them go through isometrics. And also too, with the rehabilitation process. Yeah, it should be like standard to start.

I mean, it is. If you follow like a protocol like Ken stretch, I mean, that's the philosophy that they. They operate from. They're like, they're first. They're like Ken stretching, connecting to all that in the isometric form, then it's load. You know what I'm saying? Like, that's kind of the. The progression for them. I. This is funny because this is also one of those things that I think I did as a trainer, not really knowing all the reasons why it was so much so. But I found it was so valuable to take my clients for these incredibly slow negatives. And I just attributed. Because nobody did. It was like, I. I share. Yeah, I share on the show all the time. That Matt. I see. You know, I remember learning that, like, the ideal hypertrophy protocol was like a 4, 2. 2, right. 4 seconds on the negative. And I just would count people and I'd be like, no one's doing this, but yet everybody says they want to build muscle. Like, and yet that's kind of the protocol. Then I remember going, like, well, what if I took it to the next level and go six or eight seconds? Like, that's got to be good. And that's got to be even further from what most people are doing. And so it was really. And then I saw great gains, muscle wise. So this isn't just, you know, tendon strength. You get this. Also get the benefits of building muscle from this, because the novelty side of it. So such a huge benefit to incorporating this if you are. Especially if you're a trainer, taking your clients through this type of stuff.

[Adam Schafer]

Totally. Next up is stability. If you lack stability in a joint, when your arms, when your legs, your. Your core, then your body's only going to be able to exert so much strength or so much power. It's like. It's like trying to push something with a broomstick, except in the middle of the broomstick, you have a bunch of foam. It's gonna go. It's gonna go everywhere. Right. Stability is your joint's ability to stabilize and control the power and strength that you're trying to produce. This is why people's shoulders hurt when they bench past a certain weight or when they overhead press a certain weight or when they squat, their back hurts or why their hip starts to bother them or their ankles. They typically lack stability. Now how do you train for stability? Well, correctional exercise is number one. Unilateral exercise is a great, I love ever since we put out map symmetry, it's like a light bulb for me because correctional exercise requires a level of understanding of exercise. Like the average person doesn't really get correctional exercise. If you work with a good trainer, they know it. But you know, the average person, you.

[Caller]

Have to diagnose it like. Yes, to a certain degree.

[Adam Schafer]

Right. But if you just took the average person and put them through three months of map symmetry, which is just a bunch of unilateral exercises, they're going to.

[Caller]

Get solves it a lot of times.

[Adam Schafer]

Solves a lot of it. So it's that one legged, one arm type training.

[Caller]

It's really, it's the ability to resist all these external forces.

[Adam Schafer]

That's right.

[Caller]

So lateral, rotational, like a lot of things that are pulling you out of position. So I like to always call it like anchoring, like I like to anchor my body. This is like a lot of stability. Strength training is to just be able to, you know, stay in that position with, with like these opposing forces.

Did you see what our buddy Ben Bruno was doing the other day with Klay Thompson?

[Adam Schafer]

No.

[Caller]

With the single arm dumbbell row he had him doing in a single, a single arm dumbbell row. And he brought his, kicked his back foot up on a bench on his toe.

[Adam Schafer]

Oh yeah.

[Caller]

And so he was having to stabilize his body and he's rowing like 80 pounds, 80 pound dumbbell. And he was talking about the progression of that, you know, and it made me think about what has happened in our space with stability training. You know, unfortunately when we were early, early years it was extremely popular circus training. Then it got too bad, then it got bastardized. Right. We went too far, got ridiculous, we were doing stupid things. And then, then it turned into a like, oh, none of. Then they, we threw it all out like, oh, this is stupid, we don't need to train this anymore. And so I love when I see really good professionals like Ben still incorporating it and incorporating it with the right people in the right setting for the right reasons and like just incredible, incredible value to be able to do something like that, to stabilize, anchor your body like that while rowing on one side.

[Adam Schafer]

Another good thing for the average person that they could you know, that they could probably do is long holds while walking. Overhead holds, holding things in a rack position. Suitcase holds. The reason why you walk, by the way and do these and not just stand because standing still will give you some too. But the reason why you walk is it involves a little motion. It involves other muscles. So your body's having to learn how to communicate everything. And that motion, it gives you that stimulus to try to stabilize and it.

[Caller]

Emulates real world scenarios.

[Adam Schafer]

That's right. That's right. And then training different planes, like don't just do lateral stuff and rotate in your strength training because if you get really strong moving in one direction and moving outside that direction doesn't catch up, what will happen is you'll start to move like your body is trying to keep you in one direction. This is where you get that meathead walk or look. That can happen. And it's because your body's like, we're only strong here and we're not strong outside of here. So we're going to keep you in this plane fix.

[Caller]

I know this is a shameless plug, but you know, for the average person that, that's listening to this and, or listens to a lot of episodes and hear us talking about all these things like, oh my God, how do I incorporate this with like, like all of these things that we communicate were built into the entire Maps philosophy. And so if you just went from like program to program to program to program like that this all gets taken care of and that would all. Yeah, all of it. When you. And, and one of the most popular questions we always get is like, how do you program? And it's always so hard to communicate in a one minute reel, you know how we program. But it's like all these things are taken into consideration and the thought process always is. It's like, you know, if taking a client from base to. And covering and hitting everything that we think is most important for them to build the ultimate healthy, strong fit physique. What does that look like? Well, it looks like a year plus of running from one MAPS program the next and going through all these types of phases that we talk about.

[Adam Schafer]

That's right. Last is speed. Your ability for your muscles to contract with velocity. This is light load. Fast lifts. This looks like plyometrics or throws. Now these are fast concentric lifts. So they're not fast negatives necessarily. There's a, there's, there's definitely a place for that as well. But for most people this is a fast concentric. So this would look like Holding a weight in your arm and throwing it right, not necessarily bring it down, throwing it real fast. You're looking at, you know, a jerky movement or a bench press where you bring the bar down controlled and then you throw it up as hard as you can. Or a jumping push up or something like that. Speed contributes a lot to strength. To the point where powerlifters also do these days, where they're training speed even though their lifts are very slow, because that's not the name of the game for powerlifting. They'll practice it because they know it contributes to that grinding slow strength as well. And then speed strength. This is athletic strength. Slow strength isn't as important when it comes to sports. It's how, although there is some benefit to that. It's like how fast can you be strong? That's what makes you dangerous.

[Caller]

Well, you can really see too like, you know how this affects that central nervous system recruitment. If you can get really good at acceleration and you can organize, you know, that type of output like that quickly, that really stretches your, your capacity for generating more force, even enduring strength exercises.

If I were to critique my own programming for myself, this is an area that I know I need to do more of same and I negle neglect. In fact, this was kind of top of mind for me because I know how much I neglect it. And I've been doing a lot of like around the pool workouts and stuff. We did a band one yesterday, Katrina and I. I was doing explosive push ups in this in shallow water. So I, so I go underwater and then I would explode out of that. It was like I got so sore and obviously, yeah, indicator that I need more of that and never. And I'm just trying to be creative like out, out outside and around the pool. Like what are these things I could do? And I'm like, you know what? I'm always talking about how I need to do more speed. Explosive stuff. So I was doing these underwater. No, I thought it was really cool actually to do it.

I, I actually trained like when I was trying to improve my 40 time and I was doing these combines like after college and was like thinking I was going to continue my career. I was like training with the track team over here at San Jose City College. We just were constantly running as fast as possible in the water with resistance. It was super difficult. And sweating and being wet at the same time was weird.

Oh, I'm so glad you said that, Justin. Sidebar we have my buddy's fantasy football league is starting up in two weeks and the way we determine the draft order is a 40 yard dash.

[Adam Schafer]

Oh, yeah, you told me. And we're all a bunch of 47.

[Caller]

Yeah. A bunch of old out of shapeless joints. Yeah. And I'm like, I.

[Adam Schafer]

You might be better off going slow because everyone.

[Caller]

No, here's what I'm, I'm like, what I'm so worried about is there's such a high expectation that I'm supposed to win. You know, I'm the fitness trainer guy and like, I'm terrified of like to sprint that fast right now because I know I don't do enough of it. Ever since my Achilles, I've, I've, I've not done it and I had all these tears and issues and so I'm like, okay, if I were to do this, I've got a couple weeks. I mean, I know I'm not going to get the best version of me, but what would I do to do that? I'm like, pool sprinting would probably be a good series. Too bad it's not long enough. Yeah, it's not long enough. Maybe afterwards though, it'll like, maybe when get my ass kicked, it'll motivate me to do something like that process, dude. But that's probably a really good base for me to start there because I was thinking like, I can't just start even sprinting on the treadmill right now. I'm not, I'm not even there.

No, I'd be. Yeah. Pooling in with, with a sled. I'm starting to drive.

That didn't even cross my mind to use my pool like that until you just said that. I'm like, I'm gonna do that. Because I was like, how do I ramp this up in two weeks, you know, without killing myself?

[Adam Schafer]

You know, back to the, the tendon strength. You just said Achilles. There was one study I read where they strengthened, significantly strengthen their Achilles tendon of. With a slow negative. There's just a slow heavy negative going down. And they had really, really good thickening of the Achilles tendon. So anyway, I got to mention we'll talk about protein for a second. Protein powder. You know, there is a protein that doesn't get talked about enough that is every bit as good as whey and in some cases I would even say better. And that's egg protein. You don't often hear, why is it.

[Caller]

Why did it fall out of favor?

[Adam Schafer]

It used to be.

[Caller]

Yeah, it used to be super popular. I was going to ask you because.

[Adam Schafer]

Whey think it's because whey got A lot of the publicity.

[Caller]

Yeah, because it won the studies, like, barely.

[Adam Schafer]

Okay. So when it comes to, like, when it comes to protein quality, they're almost identical as judged by branch chain amino acid concentration, essential amino acid, you know, ratios. Leucine, like egg and whey are almost, almost neck and neck. Whey edges it out just a bit with those things.

[Caller]

So why that's weird to me, Sal, is aren't there a higher rate of intolerances to whey than there would be eggs? So you would think that egg would win because of that.

[Adam Schafer]

Yes, yes. So egg is for most people, they can digest it. A lot of people can't do dairy, but there's a little bit of a difference between the two, which gives benefit, in my opinion, to egg. Depending on what your goals are. Egg is a bit of a slower digesting one, and it doesn't cause the same insulin spike that whey does. So some people want the instant spike. Some people don't want to have a protein that's gonna make. Give them a little bit of satiety. So whey will produce the least amount of satiety. So you'll take a shake and it's like, because of how quickly it digests, egg is gonna produce a little bit more satiety. So somebody who's. Who's trying to not eat as much food and they want a protein that'll satisfy them a little bit, egg is better on that. But as far as everything else is concerned, they're pretty much identical. Like, egg is a very. And now some researchers would call it the perfect.

[Caller]

It's a 10 for the sulfur, huh?

[Adam Schafer]

Well, some people would call it. That's right. And some science. Some researchers say egg is actually the perfect protein.

[Caller]

Even better than protein. Didn't Legion just drop one?

[Adam Schafer]

They did.

[Caller]

You know, I was just talking about that.

[Adam Schafer]

That's why I'm bringing it up. Because I haven't hadi. Haven't used protein powder. I've used bone broth protein powder, but I've stayed away from, I can't have dairy. And then they came out with their egg protein. I'm like, you know what, Let me give this a shot.

[Caller]

Oh, you already tried it?

[Adam Schafer]

I've been using it.

[Caller]

Oh, how is it?

[Adam Schafer]

First off, it tastes amazing. It's actually a really, really good taste.

[Caller]

All his stuff tastes amazing.

[Adam Schafer]

But I mean, it's a very high quality protein. I can tell.

[Caller]

You know, I was on the phone with him just last week and I saw that they had dropped that. I haven't had it yet. But I was meaning to ask him like, because, you know, they were. I think I told you guys, Legion set a goal at the beginning of the year. I hope I'm, I'm not speaking out of turn with Mike saying this. I think it's all good stuff. Right. I think he set a goal, a goal of like 40 new SKUs in the year or something like that, which is a lot of new SKUs. So I've been watching like all the different products. Yeah. You know, he's so heavily, heavily science based. And I saw the egg protein come out recently. I thought, oh, I wonder what led him to go that, that pathway. And so, so interesting. So I didn't bring it up. I'm glad you brought it up.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah. I mean you look at the studies on egg protein for muscle building recovery, the amino acid ratios concert. It's like, it's some, it's, it's, it's.

[Caller]

By far staple for a long time.

[Adam Schafer]

Oh my God. Yeah. Egg and whey are essentially neck and neck when it comes to like amino acids. It's a slower digesting protein. I would make the case. In some cases that's better. But again, I'm splitting hairs. But if you're somebody that can't do dairy, but you want like really high quality amino acid profile, go egg.

[Caller]

Well, yeah. Instead of like vegetable options. Right. Like a vegetarian.

Vegan.

[Adam Schafer]

Vegan. Source of protein can be another option. And they're okay for some people, they're okay. Good.

[Caller]

They'll never be a good shirt, taste wise. They can't, they don't come close to egg and wine.

[Adam Schafer]

And even if that's the problem, even forget taste. They're just not as high quality.

[Caller]

I mean, they're just not. I know you say that because that's you, but it's like that's why most people buy.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah.

[Caller]

Buy stuff.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah.

[Caller]

It's got to taste good, dude. Just if you're gonna be consistent with it, you have, it's gotta taste. And granted, I mean we are. Our companies that have vegan protein are really good. I think the best tasting vegan protein on the market. But if I got a choice, whey or egg.

[Adam Schafer]

Egg protein from Legion's got a really nice creamy like that.

[Caller]

That's what I always like about creates like this kind of creamy.

[Adam Schafer]

It's got a nice texture. Yeah.

[Caller]

For like milkshakes.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah. My wife's been using it. She actually made coffee with it the other day, which is really good. Okay. Anyway, on. I gotta tell you guys on Friday, so I went up to Santa Cruz Athletic Club. Oh, you checked it out. How'd you like it?

[Caller]

I saw you, I saw you doing 40 seconds. Okay, I can't wait to hear how this came about.

[Adam Schafer]

So Fridays, there's a day that I go and I lift and it's. We don't work Friday. So it's a day that I can spend a little bit more time at a gym. You've been talking about Santa Cruz at club, everybody's like, it's this amazing gym. It is, by the way, it's rad. Yeah. Oh, bro, it's for like, well, for whatever you want to do, but for bodybuilding, they have great machines there. So I'm like, I'm gonna go work out Friday. I'm like, you know what, Let me invite Kyle. So I called, I sent him a text. I'm like, you want to work out Friday? Go up to Santa Cruz Athletic Club. He said, yeah, let's go. So we met up there like 7:15 in the morning. And I was gonna do my whole upper body. And because they have so much great equipment, we just went, we just went crazy, bro. We just kept going, you know, so we did set after set of all these different machines and stuff. Now I'm look, how old is Kyle?

[Caller]

Kyle's 25.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah. And he's like, he's a pretty 24. So he's our head trainer. So he runs our fitness department. Super mature, smart, young. He is super mature smart kid.

[Caller]

You think he's 35, you might as well be 40 as I said. You think he's 35? 40 for sure.

[Adam Schafer]

Super smart. I say kid, he's not of kids, obviously a grown man, but he's a super smart dude, does a real good job. And so we're working out together. And now I have the hormones of a 20 something year old because of. Because I bought a hormone replacement therapy. But it ain't the same, bro. So I'm working out with him in his 20s and we're going. You know what I mean?

[Caller]

Yeah, yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

And I got home and I looked at my wife. I'm like, I. I think I overdid it. You think? The rest of the day.

[Caller]

Only thing that went through my head, I was like, oh, this is hilarious. This is Sal right before he's about to start his little docu series. This is him getting it out of his system. That's what I. That's how I read.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah.

[Caller]

This is like, you know, you're getting.

[Adam Schafer]

All the drugs real quick.

[Caller]

You know, you're getting ready to Go to rehab. Like, we're getting up.

We'll have the intervention, but I'm gonna.

Do this real quick. Yeah, yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

But no, we had a great. It was a great workout. We had a good time. Halfway through, I had to get some coconut water. I'm like, I need some carbs, dude. Sort of fizzle out. But we did. They have a forearm machine? Yeah. When I see a gym.

[Caller]

With your forearms.

[Adam Schafer]

When I see a forearm machine.

[Caller]

Of course you geeked out on that.

[Adam Schafer]

It's. My heart gets. You know what I mean? I get so warm in my, like. Oh, that's a good.

[Caller]

That'd be funny.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah.

[Caller]

Because there's definitely parts of that gym that, like, appealed to me a lot more, too, than, like, I gotta make.

My way over there now. I feel so left out. Me and Doug. You haven't been there, have you?

[Doug]

No, I haven't.

[Adam Schafer]

Okay. No, they got great. I mean, if you want, like, bodybuilding stuff, bro, they got some great. They have the. You know that lateral machine with the handles. They have a fly machine that's plate loaded. That's, like, really great. It's all these crazy.

[Caller]

I went into. I was so mad. I went into Fitness 19. Not to bash him here, but I'm going to. Anyways, I went in there on. It was Thursday or Friday. Last week was like, I was back on my kick, Right. I've said a bunch of personal.

[Adam Schafer]

Your body changes so fast. I saw you this morning. I'm like, would you gain five pounds of muscle?

[Caller]

Yeah, I worked out three times. I worked out three times last week. I haven't worked out three times in a week.

[Adam Schafer]

And I don't know how you annoy me with that. Oh, man, you're like a sponge.

[Caller]

It goes both ways, though. And you know that. You know.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah, it does, but it goes the other way, too.

[Sal Di Stefano]

It is.

[Caller]

I've learned. So I've learned to reframe it as a positive thing because I used as funny as that. That's like. As a kid, it was such a negative thing. I'd be so mad because I lose it so quick, but then get it.

[Adam Schafer]

Back and get it back just as quick.

[Caller]

So anyways, I was on my kick, you know, I'm like, hey, I've kicked up all these good habits I'm trying to kick up in my life again. And obviously, one of them is being more consistent, my lifting. And so I had already trained two days, and I'm like, oh, you know, I didn't work out in here. Our gym was busy, and so I Was like, I'll work out when I get home. I'll just go to Fitness 19. And I went in there and bro, there was lines for equipment. So I didn't lift. I was so mad because I wanted to lift. I did do a hour of lists, which I haven't done that a long time. And that felt good to get a little bit of sweat and I got to listen to an audiobook and like that was cool. But I was. So I went in to lift and I, it was. I was so annoyed by how packed it was that I'm like, I am not. I don't like waiting in line.

[Adam Schafer]

That's because you went to a gym. That's.

[Caller]

I know.

[Adam Schafer]

I mean that's the, that's the mo, right?

[Caller]

I know, but I never seen it that. I didn't know what time was it.

[Adam Schafer]

Was it afternoon?

[Caller]

It was like three. No, it wasn't even. Yeah, see, it wasn't like. See, I expected if I go five or six. It wasn't. There was like three.

[Adam Schafer]

Maybe cuz high, maybe cuz we're out of school.

[Caller]

It's summer right now. That's exactly why. That's. I was like, this didn't make sense to me.

[Adam Schafer]

You have a bunch of broccoli haircuts in there.

[Caller]

Yes, bro.

It's bunch of dog.

Dude, they all. Bro, they all look, they, they all look the same, bro. They. I mean they're trying. They all look like your boys. All of them have the same haircut as your boys. It's like they all go to the.

[Adam Schafer]

Same barber, dude, we all look the same too. I guess, I guess he got all.

[Caller]

F. He's like, you talk about that on the show. Dad, he brought his friends up, you know, hanging out with us over the weekend. I'm like, I mean people just notice it.

Like that's the thing.

It's a broccoli haircut.

What am I supposed to call it? I mean he, I, he, he actually rocks it pretty well. He looks good.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah, he's a good looking kid. He's all fit too.

[Caller]

That's what as I say, he's fit. He's got like a pull like you can get away, in my opinion. I remember this. We went through like weird 50s haircut.

Though, you know, Like I'll like almost like, yeah, dude, like I just want to do that to him one day.

[Adam Schafer]

I don't. You know, it's funny when boys figure out they could shave their heads. Like it's such a epiphany. Like just shave your head, dude. Yeah, it's.

[Caller]

Don't worry about anything. And it's like, you know, you put.

[Adam Schafer]

A hat on, you're good, dude.

[Caller]

That's why the ball comes by. So many people are like coming up on you. So many guys asked like, how do you deal with that? I'm like, I don't know. Tell easy. It's convenient. I already got my wife, you know what I'm saying?

[Adam Schafer]

She's not going anywhere.

[Caller]

Yeah, she ain't going anywhere.

[Adam Schafer]

She's know be jacked and bald. You're fine.

[Caller]

I feel like that's it.

[Adam Schafer]

That's.

[Caller]

But I get it. I mean some guys are. I didn't realize how. How attached some men are to their hair, but I do. They do have like. I. I know that's. I guess that for some women that's a. That's a must have, right. Some women are like, you know, hair tall. Right?

Like those have to be the top two.

Yeah. What is it? You know what it is? I think, I think height and hair are actually there. So I think maybe that's why it causes so much insecurity for some guys. Guys. Because I think that.

[Adam Schafer]

But then again, you got. Some of the most sought after men are shaved ball, but they're also jacked.

[Caller]

And they're also famous and rich. Yeah, famous and rich.

[Adam Schafer]

Have done real good if he wasn't rich, right? No way.

[Caller]

Yeah.

Yeah, you're right.

[Adam Schafer]

That's true. He could have had a real hard time.

[Caller]

He looks so different though, compared to it's trip looking at him. Compared to what he looked like when he first run.

[Adam Schafer]

A billion dollars will do. Helps. I know. Anyway, I gotta tell you guys, I got so. So Adam sent a gift to thank you very much, by the way. It was very, very. Such a thoughtful gift. So first he texted me. This guy's such a jerk. He's like, did you get your package? I'm like, what? What package? I am sending a delivery. I'm like, a delivery? What are you sending? He goes, oh, I'm gonna send you a box of dicks.

[Caller]

I knew he's stressing out because his kids.

[Adam Schafer]

He's like, oh God, I gotta get.

[Caller]

Him for my kids.

[Adam Schafer]

Wait. I like, I like now at first I thought he was joking. Like, shut up. He goes, well, he's like, it'll. It'll be. And he's like, it'll be there between three to five, so let me know when you get it. Take a picture of it. And I'm like, did he really send like a prank like box of Dicks. And I'm like. Cuz he, because he could do that. I already told Jessica. I'm like, I swear to God, if it shows up, I'm gonna service it does that. I said I'm gonna. There is. I'm gonna uber. I'm gonna uber.

[Caller]

That would have been a great get back to that. Well, you know why?

[Adam Schafer]

Because this was a problem. I thought to myself, if I get this box of pics, throwing it away is a problem. Yeah. What are you doing? Your neighbor. What is this garbage bag goes. It's a bunch of all your neighbors. Like, like what do you do with it? It's a private to a dumpster.

[Caller]

You actually thought about. This is hilarious.

[Adam Schafer]

That's. I can imagine that trying to throw that away.

[Caller]

Well, that would be the, like you just said the move would be to uber it back to the guy.

[Adam Schafer]

Oh, for sure.

[Caller]

Like that would be the ultimate flex in the back.

[Adam Schafer]

We'd start ubering it to each other. Nobody wants. Yeah.

[Caller]

It'll be like a submit.

[Adam Schafer]

Who's gonna run? Who runs? But anyway, what he sent was, wasn't that everybody? It was one of those a massive bouncy house. And this is because we had talked, I had talked, I had talked about how we had a bouncy house and that we didn't store it well. It got moldy so we had to throw it away. So he sent this huge one that you like attach like water to and it like has water slides and stuff. Oh, awesome. Oh man, we were going nuts with that.

[Caller]

I bet the kids were going crazy.

[Adam Schafer]

Oh, nuts, Nuts. My son was jumping off that thing, bouncing down the slide.

[Caller]

I mean, I, I, we were talking when we were walking so great and I just, just, there's been a handful of things that I, I look back and go, oh, that was the best and one of the best investments I've ever made in my life. I mean they're relatively inexpensive. They're not, I assume they were thousands and thousands of dollars. You can get a really good one for four or five hundred bucks. And they hours and hours and hours. Hours and hours activity. I mean, my son and I know you brought up like the water and the molding, like, shoot. I, I'd say Max played on it 80% of the time with no water.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah. Just.

[Caller]

We would blow it up. It was if it was a nice day outside. Dad, will you blow the slide? I blow slide up. And then I'd hang outside and just watch him.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah.

[Caller]

Bounce around on it. Slide on it. I'm like, okay. And I remember after we had done that at least 50 times, I was like, well, that was.

[Adam Schafer]

Did you. Have you gone down yours?

[Caller]

Yeah, yeah, Yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

A little too big for us. Yeah.

[Caller]

So I have to stake it in if I'm gonna get on it.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah.

[Caller]

If it's. If I don't stake it in and I give the whole thing, dude, tip over, so. Oh, I'm so glad they played on it.

[Adam Schafer]

No, they were great. I really just was. So I said, tell you got to say thank you to Adam. And he's like. He's, like, shy, but everybody was super, super.

[Caller]

Yeah, I would. I was on the plane or else I would have answered. That's when I was flying out to Texas. I went out and saw Jordan side. Love Jordan side. Dude. Such a good. Such a good guy. Yeah, we had a great. We had a great interview. He has some really good questions. We talked about fatherhood. I got. I. I finished the. The books that you had sent over. The parenting one title of it. Parenting the It. What? Oh, God. I got it right.

[Adam Schafer]

Getting it right.

[Caller]

Yeah. Getting it right. It's so good. I. I mean, I took some notes because I did want to bring it up to you. I'll share. So, a couple things that were big takeaways for me in their house. There's really only three things that they talk to when it comes to, like, discipline the kids or what the rules. There are three reasons. Just dishonor, disrespect, disobedient. The three Ds. And everything falls under that. And. And. And it's all about if you dishonor someone, you disrespect or you're disobedient. What they speak to is not the action or the behavior, but to the relationship that you describe.

[Adam Schafer]

How do you repair the relationship?

[Caller]

Yes.

And then the whole thing is around repairing that relationship. And one, it reminded me of something that I did as a kid that I. I want. When I think of all the times I've probably been disciplined, one of the ones that was the most impactful. And it was also when I hated doing the most. But when I really think about it, it. It wasn't that crazy of a punishment. I talked about that time where we went around paintballing and stuff, and my parents made me go to the house and knock on the neighbors and apologize to them. Now, I don't think my parents were that brilliant to understand what they were really doing. I think they just thought that was the way to do this.

[Adam Schafer]

It's the only time it's a relationship Repair.

[Caller]

Yeah. And so he tells a story in there that I was like. And this made me think of Justin, because I know Justin's at that age where his boys are kind of getting rebellious and with mom and, you know, in their house, honoring their mother is the. The. The pinnacle, right? Honoring or honoring God. Honoring their mother or, like, the things that he speaks to. He doesn't even talk about honoring himself as a dad, because by proxy, if they honor their mother, they're honoring. They're honoring him or whatever. And he tells a story in there where his son is basically, he's 16 years old, he's getting ready to drive out of the driveway, and his mom is, like, getting on to him about something, and he basically, you know, tells her to f off and then speeds out. And his dad, like, as a dad, you see this, and he's like, inside you're raging, and he' like, wanting to chase after him. He calms down, cools off, and he's like, what am I going to do again? Speaking to repair the relationship. That's not. I'm not going to yell at him for the. What he said to his mom and how. What he did. It's more about what you. You dishonored your mom, and you now have to go repair that relationship. And so he thought long and hard while his son was going, what he's going to do. And then his. His son comes home and he says, you know, I don't want to talk a lot about what you did and what you said you want, but I want you to understand how much you dishonored your mother and how damaging that could be to a relationship, and you need to make that right. And he goes, so as your punishment, what you're going to do is you're going to take your mom. Your mother to dinner. You're going to plan a night. You're going to take her to dinner.

[Adam Schafer]

Perfect.

[Caller]

And then when you come back, I want to hear how you repaired it. He said it was so good, they came, he let him, they went and did. And that was the punishment. Like. And so as a kid, you probably know, like, oh, man, my ass is crazy.

[Adam Schafer]

He's gonna take away my car.

[Caller]

Yeah. You start thinking of those things. Right? And there's a part of even the kid that's like, no.

[Adam Schafer]

Because what came out of that was time spent in a repaired relationship.

[Caller]

Yes.

[Adam Schafer]

Which relationships are everything. Yes. With your kids, with each other.

[Caller]

They're everything they even talk about. And these are what I. I like books where I get kind of, aha, moments or I'm like, oh, I would have done that different. And okay, that's, that's new to me. Like that was a, that was a new little hack.

Smart.

Yeah, very smart.

[Adam Schafer]

Smart way.

[Caller]

Mainly because too you don't want to shut off the communication just by punishing either. Right. And so now it's like you're isolating. You're, you're, you're taking both parties, you know, out of that whole like communication line. Whereas what you need is to re establish that plus punishments.

[Adam Schafer]

And this is a tough, this is a real hard line because sometimes I don't know how this works. Okay. So that's just full disclosure. But if your kids do things out of fear, they're not necessarily doing them out of the right heart posture.

[Caller]

So he talks about this and one of the things, so they don't talk about punishments or things that are assigned for certain things you do. It's dealing with the consequences of that thing. Yeah, so it's all about that. So for example, he always talks about too like don't get yourself stuck in this, like you reactive punish. Now you're grounded for two months. Like so it's like a threatening, punishing thing. It's. He even said like the, the words that he practices. Oh no, I didn't see that you were going to do you. Oh no, I didn't see you doing that. You're going to have to face the consequences and like pause about it. You don't have to deliver what it is. It's like you're letting them know like oh wow, I can't believe you spoke to your mother.

[Adam Schafer]

Like by the way, there's a lot of truth in waiting. Cuz often times when you throw something down right out the gates when you're angry, it's, it's out of your anger. It's not smart. It's not thought out.

[Caller]

No, that's. And that's. He says, oh, like so this learning to in that situation go oh no, I can't believe you spoke to your mother that way. You're going to have to deal with those consequences. Yeah, exactly. And you don't even give the punishment. You go marinate on it. Like okay, my goal. And so then, then thinking, okay, my goal is to get my son to repair that relationship that he just did with. And this obviously I'm using the mom example, but he used other examples of like even fighting with kids at school or disrespecting another parent or things or a teacher. And like you got to go repair that and so he will sit there and marinate on. Okay, if my desired outcome is to have my son repair that relationship that he just damaged, what's a good way to do that? And then that is the. That's the punishment. You know, it's. It's. And it's not about punishment. It's more you. You hurt a relationship, and that's not. Okay. Like, you need to go remedy that. Right. Restore that. And so, so. And the, and the not reacting and going, oh, no, it's just like a good practice of like when you're like, oh, no, you hit your sister, you're gonna have to face the consequences for that, you know, versus, like reacting. Yeah. Reacting right away. So I thought that was really, really.

[Adam Schafer]

One thing that my. One to add to that, because my wife is really good with a lot of what you're talking about, and she, she's the one that introduced me to that book. One thing that she also does really well with, especially with the little ones, is if they apologize, even if it doesn't seem sincere. You know, sometimes kids will like, oh, you know, oh, I'm sorry, they'll say it the wrong way or whatever. Rather than being like, say that like you mean it or whatever, immediately accepts it. So no matter how the kids say it. Okay, thank you so much for apologizing.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

And what that's done is it's taught them to extend grace to each other. So I have a four year old and a two year old that if they do something to each other and it could be whatever, it could be throwing a toy at their face and one of them apologizes to the other, they almost always immediately accept the apology, which is remarkable.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

Because typically you don't see that with little kids. Yeah.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

So that was just another thing that.

[Caller]

Well, you said it the other day, but I wanted to make sure I repeated like, what the. Because there's. There's four stages.

[Adam Schafer]

Yes.

[Caller]

That. And then. And that's what matters. Right. Is what stage you, you're doing all these different things. Where did I forget those four stages? It's discipline, trained, coach, friend.

[Adam Schafer]

Right.

[Caller]

So discipline is 0 to 5. Training is 6 to 12, coaching is 13 to 18, and then friend is 18 plus. Another thing that I would have done wrong that. I'm glad again, I read this is one of the things he says is leave sarcasm at the door. I'm very sarcastic and witty and Katrina and I have that relationship, and I think that's funny. And I would have not have viewed it as such a bad Thing. But I get it now when I under. Because I also, the book I read before was the whole brainchild, but the neuropsychology of a child and their brain. Brain. And their brain hasn't really learned to fully process sarcasm. They're still learning like this is how you talk to mom. This is how you talk to like people. And even though it's probably coming from a. Weaponize it. Yeah, exactly. They'll weaponize it or not know where the boundaries are with it or when it's appropriate to use it when it's not appropriate to use it because they just see that it's okay to do it. And so I gotta read that part. And basically what it says is just that it's, it's not necessarily that, oh, all of it's so bad. It's that it's not worth the risk. It's not, not worth risking what it could do negatively for what little return you get.

[Adam Schafer]

Sarcasm can become cynicism and it can also be like a sharp sword and.

[Caller]

It'S, it's just the wrong time. That's at 18 plus your kid becomes an adult and they're now on there like now you can have fun and.

[Adam Schafer]

Do that with their kid, with their friends.

[Caller]

Right?

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah.

[Caller]

They don't need it from mom and dad. Right. So. Yeah. So I thought that was interesting because that was something I, I would have done wrong. I think I would have definitely. I, I like sarcasm. But again they're, they're at a teaching phase of their lives as a kid did. And so it's not necessarily something that I want to teach him right now while his brain is still developing as a way of communicating with people. Because of how bad it can land.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah.

[Caller]

Because they won't, they don't quite have the social awareness and self awareness to know how to moderate. They just see, oh, dad does it all the time, therefore I can do it all the time.

[Adam Schafer]

So being mean can be funny.

[Caller]

Yes. In the wrong way. Exactly. Yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

I gotta look, I gotta.

[Caller]

So that was really. Yeah, really. Really, Really. I mean, I mean the back to back books were so good to go from whole brainchild to then go to the, the parenting one that you recommended because they, they had some crossover. Because the neuroscience. You know what's interesting about what your, the book you recommended talks about with the four stages of discipline, teach, coach and whatever the neuroscience talks. And they're, they're almost identical. The years, they're a little bit different. I think the neuroscience one is 0 to 3, 4 to 8 or. And then so on and so forth. But a lot of the stuff that I learned in the neuroscience book has to deal with where the brain is developing. And that's why that way of parenting is so.

[Adam Schafer]

Well, we forget. We look at, like, kids, even adolescents, especially adolescents and teenagers, like, they're small adults, but they're not. Their brains are not the same. They're not small adults. They're adolescent. They're a different species. Yeah. A different kind of creature. And they can't think. They don't think the way I remember. I remember being told once that a teenager. If they feel a particular way, this is how they think they always feel. And I know this because I'll have my teenager. I'll give them something to eat or something, and they'll say, I don't like that. Like, what are you talking about? You eat it all the time. No, I never liked that. And I'm thinking, like, are you crazy? You always like this. But it's like they literally believe what they feel right now is how they always feel because of how their brain.

[Caller]

The other thing that he said in relation to this sarcasm he talks about, he said this thing. I wrote it down, was so good. Source determines which weight, weight determines impact, and impact determines outcome. And it's in relation to the power of your words as a father. And your words are so heavy compared to anybody else. This is also why the sarcasm thing is not worth the risk, is because you may do something that you think is sarcastic and funny, but really hits an insecure spot.

[Adam Schafer]

Okay.

[Caller]

Say, for example, I know we're teasing about the haircut, but that one hits home to me because I. I was like, I remember my uncle wanted to cut my ducktail off, and he used to tease me and make fun of me all the time about it. And I still remember that as an adult, how much that bothered me. I mean, I think as an adult now, I'm like, how ridiculous. The ducktail.

[Adam Schafer]

But it's stuck with you.

[Caller]

But it stuck with me because I. That was an insecurity spot for me. And him, my uncle, being sarcastic and teasing me, you know, hit me in a place like that. And as a young boy, I don't know how to communicate that and say that. So he probably never even knows he's joking with me. Right? Right. And so again, interesting. A situation where it doesn't, you know, it's not worth it. It's as. As funny as it may seem to us or them. Like the sarcat. The risk and the power of your words is so heavy. That if you miss the mark just a little bit, you have no idea how deep that hits on. On the kids.

[Adam Schafer]

So interesting.

[Caller]

All good.

[Adam Schafer]

Wow.

[Caller]

Yeah, really good reads.

[Adam Schafer]

Hey, so I'm going to take a left here. Do you guys want to know what the fastest growing segment of probiotic users are?

[Caller]

Muscle building for performance.

[Adam Schafer]

Oh, it is athletic performance.

[Caller]

So you think because it's new emerging science, is that why it's so much.

[Adam Schafer]

Data is coming out showing how. Because probiotic use, it's been widely accepted, helps with gut health digestion. Then the next one was skin. It's good for skin. Then we had data showing it actually improves your mood. Wow. Look. It helps with depression. Now we have all these studies showing it makes you stronger and gives you more endurance. In fact, it's better than most athletic performance supplements.

[Caller]

Really?

[Adam Schafer]

In the data.

[Caller]

Antibiotic.

[Adam Schafer]

Yes.

[Caller]

Interesting.

[Adam Schafer]

Well, you know, good bacteria or bacteria produce neurotransmitters.

[Caller]

Right.

[Adam Schafer]

They help with inflammation, they help with muscle contraction and muscle health and insulin sensitivity and all the things that are important for athletic performance. So I guess it makes sense. But the data on. It's really fascinating. There's. There's studies on older adults. It's like they gave them. It's like they gave them a hormone and they just gave them a probiotic and then they test them and they're stronger. 15% in some cases. Yeah. Pretty remarkable. Remarkable. I got to get back on taking seed. I actually ran out a little while ago and I could, I think I can tell with my digestion. So I'll start.

[Caller]

Well, you've always swore by it.

[Adam Schafer]

Oh, I love them. You're the one that absolutely love them. Yeah, absolutely love.

[Caller]

And you think that's because, you know, if you have some gut issue, you're getting stuff in your bloodstream, you're then getting your body to react. It means you're probably in this constant, even low level to moderate level of inflammation all the time that's going to affect effect.

[Adam Schafer]

Well, what's interesting with these studies is they're taking healthy individuals, so they're not taking.

[Caller]

Oh, oh. So this is not somebody who necessarily has gut.

[Adam Schafer]

No, they're not taking people with gut health issues.

[Caller]

Oh, I assume that's what it is.

[Adam Schafer]

They're taking healthy people, normal people, older people or younger people.

[Caller]

Really. Now, are they randomly. Are they actually intentionally like finding people that, okay, this person doesn't even have gut issues. We're going to give it to them.

[Adam Schafer]

Studies say healthy individuals, so I think they have to do a screening and you don't have to have illness. You don't have to have whatever. Right. Because that could throw off the stuff. Study. And they're giving them this and they're testing their one rep max. They're testing their endurance. So you see it improve VO2 max. You see it improving strength.

[Caller]

Now, do you think those. Okay. Do you think, like, okay, so they're, they're, they're picking, let's say a hundred random healthy people and then giving them that. But do you think there is so many people with underlining food intolerances and gut issues that probably would fall in a group of a healthy hundred people that that is probably what's impacting them, helping them? Or do you really think. Think somebody who is. Doesn't have gut issues, is really healthy, has that and still also sees that?

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah, no, I think gut health is not perfect. That's super common. But for someone to have bad gut health, they probably be excluded from the study. Okay, so somebody's reporting like irritable bowel syndrome or whatever, the pla. Okay.

[Caller]

We want people because we already know that would help them.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah. And not only that, but we don't. It's going to mess up the study. Like, I don't want people who have any medical conditions or whatever to do this study on VO2 max or maximal knee extension strength or whatever. And it's a performance enhancer, which is pretty remarkable.

[Caller]

Interesting.

[Adam Schafer]

Yes, absolutely. It's so interesting to me. I remember when we first started the podcast, we were the first fitness shows to really tout the benefits of gut health and probiotics. But back then, even it was all about mental health and gut health. And then the downstream effects, the neurotransmitters.

[Caller]

I think is the biggest factor because, I mean, also the heart has them.

Right.

[Adam Schafer]

And the brain. Brain.

[Caller]

It's just. That's weird to me that it would enhance performance.

[Adam Schafer]

Yes. Now, they're not all probiotics are not all the same. Oftentimes you'll get one and most of the bacteria in there is dead or doesn't go where it's supposed to or whatever seed is. I mean, they're light years ahead of everybody.

[Caller]

You know, speaking of performance enhancement, when I did the interview with Jordan, something he said to me that I didn't know. I would have thought you've brought it up. Maybe you have already. I don't remember you saying it. I didn't realize that BPC157 is actually banned.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah.

[Caller]

Like from athletes. From athletes. Yeah. USDA and the other organization. Yeah. That they. That You. It's considered a performance.

[Adam Schafer]

U.S. aDA, I think.

[Caller]

Is it us?

[Adam Schafer]

I think so. USADA. Yeah. USDA is what me.

[Caller]

Hey, I was barbecuing a lot. That was at the top of mind for me.

[Adam Schafer]

It is banned. I don't know how they test for it. Like, good luck. Testing for a natural occurring peptide.

[Caller]

Yeah. I thought that was so interesting. He brought it up on the podcast and I'm like, oh, I didn't even.

[Adam Schafer]

I'd like to see them test for it. I don't think there's any test that can. That can identify bpc. It's in and out of your system so quickly. And it's a naturally occurring peptide.

[Caller]

You probably have to. You have to accidentally do it right when you get tested.

[Adam Schafer]

I don't even think they'd be able to see then.

[Caller]

Oh, really?

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah. Like how do you determine what a natural amount of that. You want to have enough data.

[Caller]

Can you look it up? Doug, how do they.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah. Is there a test for it? Speaking of athletic. Of sports and stuff. Professional sports. Did you see the shirts? I got to say this. Let me preface this by saying.

[Caller]

Oh, for the wnba.

[Adam Schafer]

I'm just going to say this.

[Caller]

The shirts for the W. Hold on a second.

[Adam Schafer]

I'm just going to say this.

[Caller]

We've talked about this before.

[Adam Schafer]

They have to be. The WNBA has to be the most tone deaf group of people in existence. How can you possibly make yourself look worse and more hated than what they're doing?

[Caller]

Well, they just.

[Adam Schafer]

They don't. They came out.

[Caller]

It works.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah, they came out business wise. They came out in these shirts. I'll look it up for you.

[Caller]

I did not see this.

[Adam Schafer]

They came out to play in a shirt that says pay us what you owe us.

[Caller]

Oh my.

[Adam Schafer]

Are you. How embarrassing. Do you know that they've. Okay, I hope.

[Caller]

I hope the views went down right after they did something.

[Adam Schafer]

I don't know how much lower they can get. They haven't. They haven't profited since day one.

[Caller]

They've been seats to be able to make money.

[Adam Schafer]

They're a subsidized league. The NBA subsidizes the wnba. They're getting paid more than what they deserve. Deserve? You get paid what you deserve based off of the revenue you bring in. And I'm sorry, ladies. You're amazing athletes. You. You.

[Caller]

I mean, a lot of athletes are pretty, but you guys are.

Tone down, please. What are you doing?

[Adam Schafer]

Why are you bringing more light to you?

[Caller]

Please tell me you saw Shane Gillis's stand. Was his.

[Adam Schafer]

So funny.

[Caller]

His WNBA joke, bro. I fell out of my chair because I even got real. Because I like, I hear, I hear. And Amanda Hicks, a three time WNBA all star.

[Adam Schafer]

Give me ever. I love it.

[Caller]

She played in.

[Adam Schafer]

Dude. Yeah.

[Caller]

The whole crowd's clapping just like.

[Adam Schafer]

I'm just kidding. That's my buddy's wife. Yeah, I do. None of you guys would know any. Oh, God. Well, it's just, it's just if you want to make yourself more hated, you just keep sounding ungrateful and like you're spoiled. Like, just keep doing that. Otherwise we should do is say nothing and just play. But everybody knows you guys are not bringing in a revenue. They know that you're subsidizing. So you just seem like a bunch of spoiled. Like, it's ridiculous. Pay us what you owe us. I mean, what do we owe you?

[Caller]

Well, and to your point, getting free money, your point of being tone deaf is like, listen, I. My wife played D1 college basketball.

[Adam Schafer]

I mean, they're badass.

[Caller]

I'm rooting, I'm rooting for the wnba. I don't watch it, but I'm rooting for it.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah.

[Caller]

I mean, I don't want to see them fail. But when you see this, when you see this type of stuff, and then I see too the, the weird dynamic they have with Caitlin Clark. Caitlin Clark is if I do tune in wnba, it's to watch her. Like, she, her. She has one of the most beautiful shots I've ever seen in the wnba. It's like watching a female Steph Curry. She is badass.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah.

[Caller]

And then they, she's not, not part of the in crowd with a lot of these players. They all talk about her, treat her. It's like, this is the girl who's bringing more attention than anybody and you guys are infighting. This makes no sense. You would, you would think you would elevate. This is like their, this is their version right now of Michael Jordan entering their league. That's what it is. I mean, obviously you can't play like Michael Jordan, but to that level, like fully embraced it. Fully embraced because that's what took the NBA off was a player like Michael Jordan. This is the same, same situation.

[Adam Schafer]

Besides that. Okay. It's just, it's crazy to me when you play, you're in a league, you're in a, an organization that doesn't profit. You're not pro. It would be like if you work for a company that's constantly in the red and you go up to your boss, you're like, you need. You owe Us all more money. What? Have you seen our numbers? We're tanking. You're lucky you're not fired. Like, what are you doing here? Yeah, so it's like, why would you do that? Cuz you're.

[Caller]

I did not know they did.

[Adam Schafer]

Like, they're poking fun at themselves by wearing a shirt like that. So I see that, and I'm like.

[Caller]

Scroll up a little bit, Doug. That's Caitlyn Clark. Is she wearing one, too?

You're like, should they run, like, the profit loss?

Like, print it out for him.

Be like, like, look, here's where our team is. Here's where the league is. Like, where do you. Where are we going to get that money?

[Adam Schafer]

It's just crazy.

[Caller]

I mean, you had the thing. This is. There's. There's always somebody.

[Adam Schafer]

Doug, look up how much the NBA subsidizes to them and see if you can look that up.

[Caller]

I've given the numbers before. It's ridiculous. Yeah, it's ridiculous.

[Doug]

I think they have a $40 million a year loss.

[Caller]

Yeah. Yeah, it's ridiculous. Yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

Pay me what you owe me.

[Caller]

Well, it sounds like the Colbert Show, I guess. Like, he was losing 40 million a year.

[Adam Schafer]

Was he?

[Caller]

Yeah, they finally canceled it. Yeah, his show sucks.

No one watches our league. It's losing. No one watches our lose. It's losing $50 million. What does that say? Go up.

[Adam Schafer]

Go up right here.

[Doug]

Up to this?

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

I can't see. Oh, they're complaining. No, no, scroll down more. Doug, that paragraph right there.

[Caller]

Yeah, right there.

[Adam Schafer]

Who is it that's saying that, Red?

[Caller]

No one watches our league. It's losing 50 million a year. We just got trolled after the SPS. What should we do? WNBA players. Let's become even more insufferable. So this was in response to the Shane Gillison thing?

[Adam Schafer]

No. Yes.

[Caller]

That's what it's saying right now.

[Adam Schafer]

The author is writing about how ridiculous it is that these girls came out wearing these shirts.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

So he's saying, like, oh, would you guys all of a sudden, like, decide, let's become more insufferable? So he said.

[Caller]

I thought it was like, okay, we got trolled at the sp. So now here's our response. That's where these shirts say.

[Adam Schafer]

No, that's what I mean by tone, depth. It's like. Like, you don't know your. Like, what's going on here. Yeah, I know. When I saw that, I was like, oh, my God. Literally, they need better pr.

[Caller]

Dude, the writer wrote the analogy that you just gave. Right now. Imagine Being an employee at a company that has never turned a profit and showing up to work in these shirts.

That's where like, ah, we're closing doors.

[Adam Schafer]

Oh, man. Yeah.

[Caller]

Each of you owe us $230,000.

[Adam Schafer]

That's what somebody should say.

[Caller]

Yeah.

Yeah.

That's so sad.

[Doug]

NBA gives them 10 million a year, it looks like.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah.

[Caller]

They give them 10 million a year and they still lose 50.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah. Yes.

[Doug]

And the NBA owns 50% of the WNBA.

[Caller]

Yeah. The amount, the, the amount that they're propping them up and the things that they're doing to, to help them, which by the way, I'm okay with like trying to help them if they want to do that.

[Adam Schafer]

That's their company. Like, see if you can.

[Caller]

But I mean, and you're going to be a part of this movement. You just got to be, hey, listen, you came in at it early.

[Adam Schafer]

And, and by the way, I'm going to be very clear. A lot of professional athletes, male or female, are tone deaf. Oftentimes they act like they're spoilers.

[Caller]

That's what I mean.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah, but everybody hates it when they do that because you're so. Yes, you work hard, you train hard, hard, but you're in this position. It's like, really, people want to see gratitude because so many people wish they could do what you do. So that oftentimes when athletes come out and complain about silly things, they just make themselves look dumb.

[Caller]

Well, this is how I felt about the baseball when they had the lock. Lockouts.

Oh, yeah.

It was just like I was so turned off by even watching.

[Adam Schafer]

Exactly.

[Caller]

Oh, yeah. The only after that, the only thing that brought them back was the home run steroids battle. They were dying after that. I was the same way too. I was a big baseball fan. I stopped watching after that. After lockout. I was like, this is lame. Like now I don't want to watch it anymore. I mean, I went through the same thing with the WNBA too, over all the whole Covid thing. The NBA or NBA? Yeah, the NBA went that whole direction. I've never watched. I actually have watched a couple WNBA games that Caitlyn Clark is playing.

[Adam Schafer]

So Katrina play. She played college, like high level college ball. She watched wnb. Nope. She wants.

[Caller]

She watches every NBA game with me. But she doesn't like w. I put on the WNBA more. She does. In fact, I tease her about it all the time. I'm like, aren't you going to support your girls or what? Sort of. It's just. And she'll tell you it's it's hard because they're playing the exact same game that the guys are. And the guy's level of entertainment is just so much higher.

[Adam Schafer]

Sure.

[Caller]

So. And then. And you only have so much time now. Listen, I think, I bet when. If she was, if the WNBA was at where it's at now, now, and she was in college playing women's basketball, she'd probably be following you a little more.

[Adam Schafer]

Maybe, because she's like, maybe.

[Caller]

Yeah. And when she was, when she was in college, like, she followed because some of these players that she played against are in the wnba, right. So she's. She knew them or knew of them really well. And so that part of her, she's intrigued. But if I came home and saw her watching W, I'd be so surprised. But I'll walk home or I'll come home and see her watching the NFL and watch the NBA. She watches that all the time.

[Adam Schafer]

Time.

[Caller]

But Katrina also doesn't get roped into that, like, support. It's like, it's either entertaining.

[Adam Schafer]

Either I like it or I don't.

[Caller]

Yeah, either I like it or I don't. I'm like, I'm not going to do it just to try and make a point. Or like, I'm. This is me supporting. It's like, yeah, well, maybe when they get good enough, I'll watch it, you know, so.

[Adam Schafer]

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[Doug]

Our first caller is Christian from California.

[Adam Schafer]

What's up, man?

[Caller]

What's going on, Christian?

[Sal Di Stefano]

Hey, good morning. How are you guys?

[Adam Schafer]

Good.

[Caller]

How are you?

[Sal Di Stefano]

You good, thanks. Hey, I've been listening to you guys, I think, for about three years now.

[Caller]

You've been on the show before.

[Sal Di Stefano]

I have been, yes.

[Caller]

Yeah, yeah. I remember the Iggy jersey. I know that.

[Sal Di Stefano]

Yeah, that's right. That's right.

[Adam Schafer]

It's.

[Sal Di Stefano]

It's a little tough to be a Warriors fan.

[Caller]

I know, I know, but.

[Adam Schafer]

We'Ll see.

[Sal Di Stefano]

But I've ran a handful of maps programs, and as I Was running them. I actually wrote little like one line reflections for each of them that I've run. And I love to share them with you before I get into my question.

[Adam Schafer]

Oh, cool.

[Caller]

Yeah, let's hear it.

[Sal Di Stefano]

Um, the first one I ran was anabolic and my one line reflection for that one was this is what lifting heavy feels like. Because I think before then, like I only ran 8 to 12 reps on everything and never outside of that. And so that was a cool one. Um, then I ran performance and my one line reflection for that one was why are there so many damn lunges?

[Caller]

Self explanatory matrix lunges.

[Sal Di Stefano]

Then I ran aesthetic and that one is. Yeah, no, Adam is crazy. Volume was wild on that one. I was on a bulk and I think I was still taking off a set or two every time.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah, it's a lot.

[Sal Di Stefano]

Then I ran symmetry and my reflection for that one was my left side sucks. And then maps 15. I'm currently on the last week of it actually. This is a four line and it's. This isn't enough. Oh, wait. What in the world? Yes, it is awesome. Love your guys programs.

[Caller]

That's great. That's awesome, dude. Yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

Cool. How can we help you, brother?

[Sal Di Stefano]

Yeah, so my question has to do with borrowing volume to bringing up like lagging body parts. I know you guys have talked a bit about if there's a body part that's lagging, then you, you, you don't just add volume, but you, you take a set from another body part and throw it onto that lagging one. Or you reorder the workout. So you like prioritize that lagging one up top.

[Adam Schafer]

That's right.

[Sal Di Stefano]

And that all makes sense. But my question is, if I'm on a cut, does it matter as much? Because I know when you're on a cut, you're not really trying to build. You're just preserving the muscle that you already built. So does that. That concept of borrowing volume, well, it becomes even more.

[Caller]

It becomes even more important. Right, Meaning that it comes more important that you. You don't add more volume than what you were already currently doing while also in a cut. Because you're already not going to build in a cut. Right?

[Sal Di Stefano]

Right.

[Caller]

So, and it really depends, like, this is a bit nuanced. Right? Because how aggressive is the cut? Is this like a. Like I'm hovering around maintenance and sometimes in a cut, or am I really cutting aggressive? Because. Because we, we tend to. We tend to separate the two. Like they live completely independent of each other and they do live Independent of each other. But in the context of a 30 day training cycle, there's probably periods of time when your body is in somewhat of a surplus. And then there's other times when it's in a deficit. And then at the end of 30 days, we call it a cut because you were in a deficit more days or more time than you were in a surplus, if that makes sense. Yeah. So you're, unless you're in like a really, really aggressive cut, sometimes you're kind of toggling back and forth, forth. And so the same rules would apply though, is that you. But in a cut, it's even more important that you don't overdo it on volume because if you overdo it on volume in a cut, you're not, you're not giving the body enough calories and, and recovery in order to support that. Whereas you could probably get away with a little bit of that if you were in a surplus. So it just becomes, I'd say, even more important that you don't just step back. More volume on. So let's say it's our biceps that we're trying to. Let's say you're running Mass 15. You love it. You're like, oh, this is a perfect amount of volume. But you're like, you know what, I want a little more bicep or whatever it is. So you add an exercise a day into the routine that's for the biceps. Or two, two times a week you do, you know, three sets of extra biceps. Like that's probably okay in a program like that, that's low enough volume that it's not going to tax you. But now let's say you're in a program more like performance or aesthetics headache. And you're in a cut and you're trying to add exercises to your body. Like that's not going to happen. You're just not going to build. Your body's going to be so taxed, you're going to be stuck in that recovery trap that Sal talks about all the time.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah. The game in a, in a surplus is to build. The game in a cut is to preserve. So if you have a lagging body part, it's more important from an aesthetic perspective that you preserve the lagging body part more than the other others. So it makes sense, right? It makes sense. Plus lagging body parts. I mean, we can get into the weeds with that. But those tend to be the body parts that if, if a muscle gets pared down, those are the first ones that tend to get pared Down. Right. I mean, I. My quads grow if I just think about doing squats. And so I could do very little with my quads to keep them in a cut. That's not the case with other body parts where I have to, you know, really make sure that they're. They're. That they're prioritized. So it's the same. It's the same thing. You. You're still going to borrow volume. You're not going to build, but you're going to preserve better in the cut for the lagging body part. So it's the same. It's. It's just as valuable.

[Sal Di Stefano]

Gotcha. That makes sense. And yeah, I think for me, too, like, my. I got. I have Filipino legs. And so I think about them and they grow. But for me, like, my lagging body, like, shoulders and abs, for me, I feel like, hmm, I'd like to develop more. Um, but I, like, I know there's just. There's so much value from squats. Um, and so I'm just thinking, like, not all exercises are created equal. And so I feel weird. Like, taking a set of squats and adding them to, I don't know, lateral raises. Like, those two don't seem.

[Adam Schafer]

You're fine.

[Sal Di Stefano]

How do we. How do I balance that?

[Adam Schafer]

No, you're fine. I would cut down. Especially if your legs grow really easily. We.

[Caller]

That's where you would advise someone like that. Because you just said that, right? If you were a client and you're like, adam, I. Man, I. I do one set of squats. I mean, you could do. Here's another way to do this is like, maybe you don't completely cut it out, but maybe it's like every other week you don't squat. And you know, you know that, like, man, I just barely got to touch my legs once every couple weeks, and I maintain my legs. And there's. There's. Everybody has these. Like, my. Unfortunately, mine's not my legs. This is my arms. My arms. I literally could touch my arms once a month.

[Adam Schafer]

Month.

[Caller]

Once a month, I touch my arms and I will maintain, like, my arms. I'm not going to grow on that, but they're not going to shrink anymore if I can just. If I can touch them once a month. So if you have that and that's your legs, then, you know, do them. Do them once every two weeks or once a month and then add some of that volume to whatever, the shoulders or whatever.

[Adam Schafer]

Here's another way to do it, right? One set of squats is probably worth two or three sets of laterals or something like that. So what kind of. What are you looking for specifically with your delts? You mentioned laterals. I'm assuming you're looking for the lateral head.

[Sal Di Stefano]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

I would cut out a set of squats just to make it simple and add two sets of laterals. That's. That's a pretty, pretty balanced trade, I would say.

[Sal Di Stefano]

All right.

[Adam Schafer]

Yep.

[Sal Di Stefano]

That's awful.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah, go for it. Do it. Cool. Yeah, dude. And then abs, you know, abs in a cut, you're. You don't. Unless you're looking for a lot of strength and stuff like that. Like you're just, you're going to see them as you get leaner. So you don't need to worry so much about. About adding volume to the abs, I would say.

[Sal Di Stefano]

Gotcha.

[Caller]

Christian, you're already in our forum, aren't you?

[Sal Di Stefano]

I am not.

[Caller]

Oh, wow. I'm not on.

[Sal Di Stefano]

I'm not on social media.

[Caller]

You're not on.

[Adam Schafer]

Good for you.

[Caller]

Good for you. That's why. Oh, maybe I've asked you that before. Maybe we, we told you. Good for you. Well, I'm not going to put you on there then, so never mind.

[Sal Di Stefano]

I know that. So, so aesthetic has those focus sessions which are like targeted trigger sessions essentially. Right. And I get. Aesthetic had too much volume for me. Is there another program that you guys would recommend instead of that one for like targeting.

[Adam Schafer]

Well, what.

[Caller]

I mean, you could do anabolic and.

Then add focus or you could like you're. Sounds like from your. I mean, I loved hearing your one week or one, you know, sentence answers here. Max 15 seemed to do really well for you. Yeah. And that's a really low volume program. So I would suggest just building off of that since that. That's one of the lowest volume programs that everything we have you already recognize. Like, wow. Actually I did pretty well on this. So why don't you build from there instead of taking a program that already has built in way more volume. Take that volume. Take, take that. Exactly. Take that structure and go. Let me add a couple sets of shoulders throughout the week and, and just see how I feel. And that'll probably be. Do really well for you because it's such a low volume program and you may not have to change anything leg wise that, I mean that thing is already low enough you that you could easily add four to five sets of shoulders throughout the week and totally not be taxing the body and see great results. So I would, I would actually start you from that place and add to that Then go try and take like, you know, say anabolic performance or aesthetic and then modify and change too much. It's like you've already realized that Mass 15 you thought wasn't enough volume, but it was like, oh wow, my body's actually responding with this low volume. So maybe try adding a little bit and, and just keep doing that until you find the limit where your body goes, oh no, now I'm getting sore way more. I'm not recovering the same. I'm not seeing the strength gains. Okay, that's probably too much. So build on that.

[Sal Di Stefano]

Gotcha. Oh yeah, that's super helpful. Thank you guys.

[Adam Schafer]

You got it, man.

[Caller]

Thanks for calling in, brother. Yeah, good catch.

[Sal Di Stefano]

Before I go, I wanted to, you guys provide so much good information and so much, so many like hacks and things. I wanted to provide you guys with some. I have a five year old and so I love your guys stories with Aurelius and Max. And my daughter's right there and I'm sure you guys do this too, but we like to read our daughter stories when she goes to bed. Bedtime stories. And we like to do it with kind of like a moral to the story or find a book that has like a message that she's learning. So that usually means I'm in the library reading through all these children's books, making sure there's a message in there that I like that she can learn, learn. But I've recently found if you prompt it right, Chad, GPT is a great storyteller.

[Adam Schafer]

Oh really?

[Caller]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Sal Di Stefano]

And so if you prompt it like my prompt for it was like, you're an award winning children's author. Write me a bedtime story that takes five to ten minutes to read to my five year old.

[Adam Schafer]

Oh wow.

[Sal Di Stefano]

She loves unicorns and silliness and it writes this story for you and they're great.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Sal Di Stefano]

And you can like always prompt it with I want her to learn more about sharing or I want her to learn more about overcoming hardship.

[Adam Schafer]

Holy cow.

[Caller]

Great hack.

[Adam Schafer]

That's fascinating. Yeah. So.

[Sal Di Stefano]

And recently because it like it, it learns. Right? So Chad, GPT knows that I'm reading these stories to my kid every night. And so recently it started adding at the bottom of the story. These are some follow up questions you can ask your kid, like, how does Luna, the little unicorn, how did she feel when she first didn't want to share? And then so I'm having these conversations with my 5 year old and they're sweet.

[Adam Schafer]

That's great.

[Caller]

Great hack, bro.

[Sal Di Stefano]

Give it a shot.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah. All right, man. Thank you.

[Caller]

Thanks, Christian.

[Sal Di Stefano]

All right. Thank you, guys.

[Adam Schafer]

All right, brother. I don't know what it is for me, but I have this internal resistance to using AI. I do, I do. Like, part of me is like, that's a great idea. Then part of me, he's like, you're not going to create the stories for my kids. And I'm like, I read other books.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

People outsourcing this. I'm like, going back and forth in my head as he's talking, like, I read other stories. Why wouldn't I read this? And I'm like, you know, Interesting. Yeah. The lagging body part conversation is a good one. And again, the biggest mistake people make is they just add volume, but they don't take it off anything else. They just over train and they wonder why their body parts don't respond.

[Doug]

Our next caller is Mikayla from Massachusetts.

[Adam Schafer]

Hi, Mikayla. Hello.

[Caller]

Hey.

Hey, how are you? It's nice to meet you.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah, same. How can we help you?

[Justin Andrews]

Cool.

[Caller]

Okay. So first off, thanks so much for having me on and for all the content that you put out. I'm so grateful that I found your podcast a couple years ago.

[Adam Schafer]

Thank you.

[Caller]

Yeah. So here's my question. I'm going to go ahead and read it. So I've been crossfitting five to six days per week for about five years. And honestly, sometimes it's more than that. I know that it's bad and I haven't been able to get away from it, really, because of the community. I've made such great friends there throughout the years and throughout the various moves. So I just bought my first home, which is across the street from a really nice non crossfit gym. And I figured that now is a great time to try out all of your advice. So my question is if you or me, what programs or practices would you recommend?

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah, good question.

[Caller]

It's a great question.

[Adam Schafer]

Now, I want to back up too, Mikayla, because I want to just give you. I just want to, you know, cover something here. So you did it for. You did it for years. You love the community. It obviously brought you some joy and it obviously improved the quality of your life. So, yeah, maybe the workout isn't ideal. Did you injure yourself, by the way? Were you okay the whole time?

[Caller]

Honestly, I was pretty healthy throughout it. I think what's made me, like, realize that I need to switch is that going to the gym for 90 minutes and killing myself has been starting to impact me at work. Honestly, I'm getting just kind of tired in the afternoon.

[Adam Schafer]

Okay. Okay.

[Caller]

And I have to, I have to use my brain, so.

[Adam Schafer]

Okay. All right. So what, so what are you looking for in a workout program specifically? You enjoy working out, but are there, what other things are you looking for from it?

[Caller]

Yeah. So I think ideally I would like to, to just kind of look like someone that works out. My joke with my CrossFit coach has been like, when are my arms gonna come in? Like, what am I gonna see those?

Okay, so I, I, I also have a question, like, so whenever I get somebody, somebody coming from CrossFit, especially for this long, the main thing that I'm mostly concerned about is how addicted to that training intensity and volume are they? Because probably the best place to send you is the complete opposite. But that's really hard psychologically for some people. Meaning we have programs that have lots of volume and require several days at the gym. And then we have problems that are like very low volume, like Maps 15 that are short, short workouts. But you take somebody who's been used to beating themselves up for 90 minutes in the gym six days a week and you go, hey, I just want you to work 15 minutes out a day. And I think that's the best thing for you. They go, they freak out. But honestly, that's where I'd want you to go. Yeah, so, But I also understand the psychological part. And so sometimes a coach like me has to take someone like you and I slowly wean you off. I go, hey, Max performance is kind of crossfit like, and it's, you know, got some good intensity in there. It's got a lot of multi planar movement movements. It's similar, it's a fact. We created that program as what we, what we were trying to attract people who like CrossFit, but we think it's far better programming, better balance. And so I would take you there if you're like, yeah, I do love it, and I don't know if I'm ready to go the other extreme. And then I would slowly step you back that way. So it really depends on where you're at psychologically.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah, a different, a different way to say that is how willing are you to really switch directions?

[Caller]

Yeah, I, I think I'm pretty coachable. So if you guys are telling me to do something, I will like do it to a T. Okay.

[Adam Schafer]

Okay. I tell you what I think, I think you would love Maps Anabolic. I think doing the three day a week version, you could do the trigger sessions on the off days, keep them low intensity. And I Think you're going to be blown away. I think you're going to be absolutely blown away by the second and third week week on the changes to strength and performance and how you feel. So that would be where I would send you. Okay.

[Caller]

Yeah, I like it.

[Justin Andrews]

Yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

Now here's what we're gonna do. Mikayla, I'm gonna have you back on in a few months so we can ask you how it went.

[Caller]

Okay.

[Adam Schafer]

All right.

[Caller]

You actually rest during the rest period.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah.

[Caller]

That's an important piece.

Yeah. Make sure you do that. That's actually a great point. You know, I know that CrossFit keeps you moving through the workout that might be new for you to.

[Adam Schafer]

This is very traditional straigh. And.

[Caller]

And so again, always I'm always thinking about who I'm training. Right. Specifically and the advice I'm giving with someone like you. I am going to force you to rest for three minutes between sets, which. Because I know how difficult that may be, but how important it is for you from what you're coming from where someone else. Sure. Maybe I'll let them get going in 90 seconds where you. I'm gonna be like, we need to rest. I want a full two, three minute rest.

Different.

Yes. And so. So really discipline yourself to do that. Even though it's very different than the typical CrossFit workout. Trust the process we got you and.

[Adam Schafer]

We'Ll have you back on so we can check.

[Caller]

I'd love to also put you in the private forum if I can, so we can just keep an eye on you and if you have any questions along the way that you. You have us to reach out to.

Yeah, that would be awesome. Since it's only three days a week, is it okay if I do just like gentle yoga?

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah. Oh, perfect.

[Caller]

Well, there's triggers sessions too.

[Adam Schafer]

There are trigger sessions, but I love gentle yoga.

[Caller]

Yoga.

Yoga and walking and mobility stuff.

[Adam Schafer]

Great.

[Caller]

As much as you want. Like literally moderate intensity. If you find yourself feeling a little restless because it is so extreme of a difference as far as the. The rest periods and less vol. Less volume. All the above. But you want to do something. Go walk or go stretch or go do yoga. I love that.

[Adam Schafer]

That's.

[Caller]

That's a great way to transition you out of, you know, those long, intense workouts.

[Adam Schafer]

So you're talking about like a, like a mild vinyasa flow or a yida in. Yeah, yeah, perfect. Go for it.

[Caller]

Those are great.

Okay.

Yes.

Awesome.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah. All right, we'll see you in a few months.

[Caller]

Thank you so much.

[Adam Schafer]

Thanks, Michaela.

[Caller]

Bye.

[Adam Schafer]

Well, good. As soon as you said, I'll do it, like, let's go.

[Caller]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Adam Schafer]

It's gonna blow her mind too.

[Caller]

And I'm excited for her because, you know, even though she was, she had a good attitude about it, but, you know, you've been training five, six days a week for five plus years. To not see physical change that you want, wanted is a bit frustrating. Of course you should not. You should not be having to train that much and not seeing the body that you feel like, well, what kept her.

[Adam Schafer]

There was a community. But then after five, they do that.

[Caller]

Really well there for sure.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah. You're like, okay, that's enough.

[Caller]

Do you know that her comment, her comment on work and feeling, that was the. So when we obviously crossfit originated over here in Santa Cruz area, and so the Bay Area, San Jose, Santa Cruz, a lot of us trainers were introduced to it long before.

[Adam Schafer]

In the beginning stage.

[Caller]

Yeah, yeah, early on. And so we were playing around with.

[Adam Schafer]

With it.

[Caller]

I remember when it was just getting popular before it was like nationwide and stuff. And I remember doing the workouts and I would just have to lay on the floor in my office for like a half hour afterwards. I was just done like the rest of my work day. I was just done.

One time I felt like tunnel vision doing workout. I was, this isn't good.

And I. And I was like, I didn't want to do. I didn't want to get up from my dad. And I know part of my job at that time is to get out and mingle with my members and. And be. I had no energy to do that. I was just like, I sat at my desk with my head, my. Felt my heart beat in my head for like half hour and just so exhausted. I'm like, this is not a way to live. Like, this is not smart. Like, there's no way I'm going to continue to do this. And so that.

[Adam Schafer]

You mean going to war at every workout.

[Caller]

But I'm excited. I'm excited to see what she. What she does.

One more we save.

[Doug]

Our next caller is Sarah from Washington.

[Adam Schafer]

Hi, Sarah.

[Caller]

Hey, how you doing, Sarah?

[Adam Schafer]

Hello. Hello.

[Justin Andrews]

Hi. Hi. I'm really fangirling right now. Like, so big smile.

[Adam Schafer]

How can we help you already?

[Justin Andrews]

Big fan. So just quickly, before I get into my email, want to do the same thing that everybody does on these calls. You all have had a huge impact on my life. And just to say it lightly, Sal, I have appreciated your walk with Jesus. Jesus. You kind of influenced me to go back to reading the Bible. So I'm on a 365 day Bible reading journey so I hope I, I make it. So thank you for that. So I'm gonna just get into my email and, and just full disclosure, I changed it a little bit because I felt like I didn't include some important things before I got to my question. So I felt that that was important for you all to know.

[Caller]

Okay.

[Justin Andrews]

So I'm a 47 year old former Crossfitter. I'm sorry. Who has been rebuilding after years of burnout, hormonal dysfunction and over training. A little over a year ago my lifestyle looked very different. I was lifting about 4 to 5 days a week, running about 3 to 4 days a week at about 3 to 4 miles each time. I was under eating so about 1500 ish calories over consuming sugar and chronically stressed. About 2 years ago I ran a half marathon. I was also lifting four to five days a week and my weight had dropped about to about £146. But my sleep was awful. I was extremely stressed, didn't feel good. By March of 2024, after running my half marathon, I was still frequently lifting the three to four days a week, but my weight climbed up to nearly £160 and I was still just very depleted, low energy, poor sleep, very burnt out. Due to all of that, I found a holistic, perimenopausal and hormone replacement specialist in my area and after a deep dive into my labs and my symptoms, she put me on a whole food, high protein, high fiber diet and had me work out three days a week and completely stop running. I was extremely skeptical but followed her path because I thought what else do I have to lose at this point in my life? I also began walking daily at about 10 to 14,000 steps a day. In August of last year is when she introduced me to all of you. And ironically the first episode I listened to was your CrossFit episode and was in tears laughing because I related very heavily to those that crazy people in the box. And then between your podcast and her guidance, my approach to fitness has completely shifted to a 180. Since then I've run your Muscle Mommy program, the 40 plus program and I've attempted Maps Anabolic. But back in November when I started Anabolic and of course I don't know how to underdo things so I did the three day a week program. The volume was too much and left me feeling depleted, worn down and I was starting to get reoccurring injuries. I have repeated maps 40 + as it has helped regain consistency and strength, but I'm still battling just stubborn belly fat and poor muscle gain, mainly in my lower leg and glute region and struggle with flat energy. When I first started back In March of 2024, I weighed close to 160 pounds. My waist was 32 inches wide and my hips were 39 inches at that time. When I started I was about 1500 calories. She has since worked me up and I'm currently eating about 23 to 2400 calories calories. I'm not chasing weight loss, but full disclosure, I'm a 90s girl so the Kate Moss is always in my head and I'm fighting that perception a lot and so I'm really trying to stay away from the scale as much as possible. I've been track tracking my monthly body comp with ultrasounds and I'm consistently landing between 30 to 31% of body fat. Currently my waist size measures 29 inches and my hips are 38 inches and I'm 56 tall. I'm frustrated. I don't want to be shredded. I also don't want to be skinny skinny, but I'd be happy to be around 27, ideally 25% body fat with more lean muscle that's evenly distributed. Just my last labs for for some context, I struggle with cortisol. I have led a very stressful life in a in my younger years and so I think I'm paying the price. It's low throughout the day. I've done Stephen Cabral's saliva test and the Dutch test and they've all confirmed very low cortisol. It varies kind of with my cycle, but I tend to fall asleep, sleep easily and wake up right around that 2am time frame and then I'm crashing midday. My free testosterone is low, estradiol has dropped and T3 is borderline. I eat, like I said, 150 grams of protein a day. So I follow all of your guidelines on what to do my supplements I I'm doing all the cortisol supplementation, magnesium, vitamin D3, all of the things ashwagandha. I've even previous tried NAD plus through MP hormones. Last winter when I did try reverse dieting I felt like the Pillsbury Doughboy. Like if somebody touched me I would giggle and laugh. I was in just physical pain from it. Everything I've heard and read keeps me pointing to the core issue of my cortisol. Even like I want to even try this Samorelin really bad. But everything tells me that if my Cortisol. Cortisol is not good. I can't try some Morellin. So I just, I'm going to keep spinning my wheels no matter how clean I eat and how smart I train. So right before my question, there has been an update since I submitted my email because I asked myself, let's just pretend I'm on this call. What are you guys going to tell me that I don't want to hear? And so I ended up purchasing the Maps 15 and Maps 15 Lean Performance Bundle. I haven't started it yet because I'm fighting the I can do more, but I just want you to be aware that I did make the purchase. So it is sitting in my. In the. In your app waiting to be started. My goal is to build visible lean muscle muscle, especially in my legs. Like, like I said, my quads, my glutes, my abs. I'm not chasing a six pack. I never care to have a six pack. I just want the flub to go away. I want to feel strong and shift my body comp without wrecking my hormones. So my main question to you, given my low cortisol hormonal profile and goal of body comp, not weight loss, what maps program would you recommend next? And how should I adjust training frequency or volume to support recovery, free cortisol balance and lean muscle gain without overshooting it?

[Adam Schafer]

Well, first, I appreciate all the details you gave us because I, I think I know the right direction for you. I think Mass 15 is the right direction.

[Caller]

I also want to point out how, how good you're actually really doing.

[Adam Schafer]

You're doing really well.

[Caller]

The fact that you have got all the way to here and figure this out. You've reverse dieted to 2400 calorie from 1500.

[Adam Schafer]

You.

[Caller]

You're, you've accomplished a lot more than it probably feels feels like to you because I. So I understand how it might feel. But listening to you break that all down and the journey you've had to go through to figure all this out and where you're currently at. You're. You're on the right track.

[Adam Schafer]

You're doing really well. Really well. You went from 15 to 2400 calories and you lost, I think you said 3 inches on your waist with only a half an inch coming off your hips, which tells me you probably built some muscle while losing some of that belly fat while bumping your calories. Almost a thousand huge win. You're moving in the right direction. Now when you're dealing with cortisol, essentially you want to be Gentle with your body. So Maps 15 is the right program. And if you added anything else, it would be something like a massage once a week or it would be gentle yoga or something that is more nurturing, not a workout. I like massage. I think massage is great therapeutic movement, something therapeutic. In that case, the only thing I would add, okay, so you're doing everything right. If you stay on this path, you follow Mass 15, you're going to continue to see yourself incrementally progress as your body heals and as you continue to do things appropriate. So you're going to continue to progress. If you want to accelerate this, if you want to see your body start to act and move the way that maybe you remember it used to react and move, the only next step would be to do hormone replacement therapy, which is a viable option. Okay, it's a viable option option. You're 47. I think you're already taking. It says there a little bit of progesterone. It would probably look like some thyroid in the morning, some testosterone, and you would continue on progesterone. And what that would do is that would bring your hormone profile back to something like you maybe had in your 20s, and you would just be much more responsive and reactive to everything that you're doing. You would still have to continue on the path, though. So what you wouldn't do is go on hormone replacement therapy, therapy and then go on maps aesthetic.

[Caller]

Resist that temptation because it will be tempting.

[Adam Schafer]

You still gotta do all the same stuff. But the difference is if you do all the sameif you do all the stuff I'm saying minus the hormone, you're gonna improve. You add hormone replacement therapy to it, you're gonna improve twice as fast. So that' sthat's the question. The question is, do you want to go down that route? If so, you would go see AA hormone replacement therapist. Specialist. Specialist that deals with women in perimenopause, menopause, not your general practitioner. And again, it's probably gonna look like progesterone, which you're probably already taking. Are you taking pill or are you doing the cream?

[Justin Andrews]

The pill.

[Adam Schafer]

Okay. How many milligrams at night are you taking?

[Justin Andrews]

200. And I read again, I do everything you tell me. So I'm on like Jolene Brighton's website, and so I'm taking it the second half of my cycle, where the first half I don't take it. Keep my estrogen normalized.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah, smart. Yeah. So some women do that, but when you go on full replacement therapy, what they'll Typically do is have you stay on all the time. But, okay, so you're already on progesterone. What they'll probably add is testosterone and some thyroid and then testosterone and thyroid. Think of those as the aesthetic hormones. Progesterone helps with anxiety. Sleep helps with those type of symptoms. Testosterone and thyroid is like build muscle, burn body fat and energy. You notice energy with those. So that would be the only other thing I would say that you could try. But otherwise, you're moving in the right direction and you're gonna progress. Even if you don't do hormone replacement, it'll just take a little longer, and you're gonna have to be a little bit more patient. But again, I'm gonna emphasize this. If you decide to go the hormone replacement therapy route, you're gonna get this signal that's gonna say, wow, I could do so much more. Don't continue doing what you're doing, doing. And that's gonna be. That's the direction regardless of whether or not you go on exogenous hormones.

[Justin Andrews]

Okay.

[Adam Schafer]

Okay.

[Justin Andrews]

Do you have time for one more question?

[Adam Schafer]

I do. We do.

[Justin Andrews]

Awesome. So knowing. So I'm very competitive and I suffer from that. It's a bad quality to the point where why I over train and I'm very impatient because I want to train for a week and see my quads just pop. And I recognize this. But one of the issues that struggle with. So I. I have a bulging disc. I've had it. I officially was diagnosed with that about two years ago, but suffered from the pain for about four years. And I love to back squat. It's one of my favorite things to do. However, when I do back squat, I periodically, you know, I deal with two issues. I deal with just overall low back s. Back pain afterwards where it gets really tight. And sometimes it from backloading, I flare up my bulging disc. So I feel like I listen to all of you of what you do. I tighten my core. I do a lot of pelvic tilt warm ups before I even get into my squat. But I suspect my ankles may be playing a huge role in my mobility. And I just love your input on how to prevent this from the stiffness and potentially even my bulging disc from reoccurring to ensure that I can back squat in my 70s.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah. We'll send you prime pro and you can do the ankle mobility movements and some of the hip mobility movements. In the meantime, you can switch your back squat. Back loaded squat.

[Caller]

Bulgarians.

[Adam Schafer]

Yes. To. To unilateral split stance. Actually exercises Bulgarian.

[Justin Andrews]

So how I do. I tried those, but what I struggle with is the back foot placement.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah.

[Caller]

Yeah.

[Justin Andrews]

I can't seem to get it.

[Caller]

I have. I have a. I have a video that I did on our YouTube channel. Maybe Doug can look at it while we're talking where I talk about how to set that up. Like, because people, it's. It is one of the challenging things. And then what people do, they end up feeling it in their hip flexor, in the back trail leg, and they don't feel it in their lead leg.

[Adam Schafer]

Or the ankle is all bent.

[Caller]

Yeah. So there's. I did a video of breaking that.

[Adam Schafer]

You can also set up a. A bar on a rack and then put.

[Caller]

There's any kind of pad.

[Adam Schafer]

Yeah. You know, like the squat pads that we tell people not to use. Here's what it's good for. You put it on the bar, and then you can hook your foot over it.

[Caller]

While doing Bulgarians, we could also do lunges and reverse lunges, too. So it's like, if that still is, like, frustrating and you just can't get it down, or it's like it doesn't feel right and comfortable, then I would just. As your trainer, I'd be like, listen, let's just do some reverse lunges or do some regular lunges. And you're gonna get what you need from that.

And a lot of times, you can just add more stability by holding onto the squat rack if you need to, and get in there, just because, like, that way, you can direct, you know, that type of force more appropriately. So that way, too, it kind of eliminates a lot of the discomfort with it.

[Justin Andrews]

So when I'm doing the Bulgarian squat, I can actually hold onto the squat rack.

[Caller]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. You could even have, like, what you carry. You hold. Hold a dumbbell in one side to load it, and then the other side is holding on to the rack just to help stabilize a little bit. Yeah. So you could absolutely do that. So. But I have. I'll have Doug send over that video so you can watch how I kind of set up for it and see if that helps. If not. And then, like. Like we said, worst case scenario, switch to lunges or reverse lunges, and you're going to get just as good of work by doing that. But I would definitely pull you until we got to the bottom of what's where. The breakdown is, mobility wise. And there is a good chance it's in the ankles, since that's the most common area. And it's like, maybe. And maybe it could be, too. Is Just shortening your squat range up. I know we talk a lot about the importance of really deep squatting, but what might be happening is be a slight breakdown as you get below 90, and then that's what's. And then because of the lack of ankle mobility, then it's sending the stress to the low back where just by shortening your range of motion up. Because we could do a lot of other things to keep that range of motion there. But when we back squat, maybe I, you know, do it down to a. A bench and a way, you know, that is if you do, like bench squats and you feel that it doesn't bother you, that's probably what it is. Like if you just sit down on a bench, get up with load, and it doesn't bother the low back at all. It could be. It's most likely the ankles as you get lower than 90 degrees, that's causing that. That. So there's a few things. A few things we could do.

[Adam Schafer]

Perfect.

[Justin Andrews]

Well, thank you.

[Adam Schafer]

You got it, Sarah.

[Caller]

All right. All right.

[Justin Andrews]

Thank you.

[Adam Schafer]

Bye. Bye.

[Caller]

I'd love for. Have Corinne reach out to her. Yeah, I just would like to.

[Adam Schafer]

It'd be interesting. You know what's interesting about. And I hope as people are listening, they pick up on this, right? Because this is a common theme and we all fall for it, right. It's like I bumped my calories a thousand. I lost three inches off my waist. I'm stronger. Why am I not progressing?

[Caller]

Yeah, yeah, right.

[Adam Schafer]

You know, and it's like you are. You are progressing. You're actually doing incredibly well. The other side of this, too, is especially for women in that age group, no matter what you do, you are going to have a fundamental hormone shift. As healthy as you are, there's a healthy hormone shift shift called menopause that will make everything different. That does change everything. Now, with modern medicine, so long as you're healthy, there are ways to. I mean, you could. You could go on hormone replacement there, maintain a hormone profile like what you had when you're younger. And that's an option these days. Of course, it costs money and time and it is using modern medicine, but it is an option. Look, if you like the podcast, come find us on Instagram. You can find us at mindpupman Media. Check us out.

[Doug]

Thank you for listening to Mind Pump. If your goal is to build and shape your body dramatically, improve your health and energy and maximize your overall performance, check out our discounted RGB Super [e-mail] the RGB Super Bundle includes Maps, Anabolic Maps, Performance and Maps Aesthetic Nine months of phased expert exercise programming designed by Sal, Adam and Justin to systematically transform the way your body looks, feels and performs. With detailed workout blueprints and over 200 videos. The RGB Super Bundle is like having Sal, Adam and Justin as your own personal trainers, but at a fraction of the price. The RGB Super Bundle has a full 30 day money back guarantee and you can get it now. Plus other valuable free resources at more mindpumpmedia.

[Caller]

Com.

[Doug]

If you enjoy this show, please share the love by leaving us a five star rating and review on iTunes and by introducing Mindpump to your friends and family. We thank you for your support and until next time, this is Mind Pump.