2659: Eight Ways to Build a Crushing Grip & Strong Forearms & More (Listener Live Coaching)

Summary

Mind Pump: Raw Fitness Truth Episode 2659: Eight Ways to Build a Crushing Grip & Strong Forearms & More (Listener Live Coaching) Release Date: August 9, 2025

Hosts: Sal Di Stefano, Adam Schafer, Justin Andrews
Producer: Doug Egge
Special Guest: Kyle, Head Trainer

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Introduction to Grip and Forearm Strength

In this episode, the Mind Pump hosts delve into the often-overlooked yet crucial aspects of grip and forearm strength. The discussion emphasizes how neglecting these areas can impede overall muscular development, aesthetics, and functional performance.

Importance of Grip and Forearm Training

[03:41] Sal Di Stefano:
"If you're not training and strengthening your grip and your forearms, you're affecting the aesthetics and the development of the rest of your body."

Sal highlights that strong hands and forearms are foundational to effective performance in various lifts and everyday activities. He notes, "Your hands are what connect you to the world. When your hands are not strong, then it doesn't matter how strong the rest of you is because your hands can't connect you to that."

Training Methods and Tips

The hosts outline several strategies to enhance grip and forearm strength:

1. Daily Practice Movements
   Sal:
   "Daily practice with grippers at a low intensity can significantly develop hand strength."

   Using inexpensive grippers, individuals can perform 10-15 squeezes throughout the day to build foundational strength without overtraining.

2. Crushing Grip Strength
   Sal:[08:47]
   "Use heavy grippers like Captains of Crush to train the ability to crush and squeeze."

   Incorporating high-resistance grippers helps in developing the muscles responsible for crushing motions.

3. Static Strength
   Sal:
   "Hold heavy dumbbells or perform farmer walks to build static grip strength, which is most functional for daily tasks."

   Static holds improve the ability to maintain a grip, essential for lifts like deadlifts and pull-ups.

4. Pinch Grip Strength
   Sal:
   "Hold plates with fingers flat to strengthen pinch grips, enhancing forearm development."

   This method targets the muscles involved in pinching motions, contributing to overall forearm aesthetics.

5. Forearm Extensors and Reverse Curls
   Sal:[12:28]
   "Reverse curls are fantastic for strengthening the brachioradialis, crucial for functional movements like grappling."

6. Wrist Curls
   Sal:
   "Basic wrist curls with a barbell can effectively target the forearm muscles."

Avoiding Wrist Straps

Adam Schafer:[14:48]
"Don't use wrist straps unless you're an advanced bodybuilder or strongman. Training without them ensures natural grip strength development."

The hosts agree that relying on wrist straps can hinder the natural strengthening of the grip and forearms, advocating for training without such aids to maximize development.

Sample Routine for Grip and Forearm Development

[15:05] Sal Di Stefano:
"Monday: Three sets with a heavy gripper at high intensity. Wednesday: Hold heavy dumbbells for 30 seconds, three sets. Friday: Wrist curls and reverse curls, one set each. On off days, use the gripper at low intensity."

This structured approach ensures balanced development across various aspects of grip and forearm strength over a three-day training week.

Guest Introduction: Kyle

With Justin stepping out due to an emergency, Kyle, the head trainer, takes center stage. Kyle shares his journey from interning and video editing to becoming a pivotal figure in building the training department. His dedication and character earned him respect and a leadership role, reflecting the show's emphasis on character over technical skills.

Food Label Inaccuracies

[29:25] Ryan Seacrest:
"A recent study showed that protein on food labels can be inaccurate by as much as 20%."

The hosts discuss how inaccuracies in food labeling, especially concerning protein content, can mislead consumers about their nutritional intake. They stress the importance of whole foods and accurate tracking for those aiming to build muscle and manage weight effectively.

Shilajit Supplements

The episode touches upon the benefits of Shilajit, a supplement that has gained popularity for its ability to raise testosterone levels and reduce muscle damage. Sal:
"Shilajit sourced from Prima V, such as Organifi's gummies, has been shown in studies to improve male reproductive health and increase testosterone in healthy men."

The hosts advocate for high-quality supplements, emphasizing the need to choose reputable brands to avoid contaminants like microplastics and heavy metals.

Listener Live Coaching

Allison from Pennsylvania

[66:20] Allison:
"Throughout my childhood, I struggled with obesity. I started walking, exercising, and eating healthy, which led to weight loss. However, I'm now stuck and not progressing in muscle gain."

Sal's Advice:
"Chase protein first and follow a structured program like Maps Anabolic. Focus on building strength and slightly increasing your caloric intake to support muscle growth."

Stella from Illinois

[84:52] Morgan:
"As a 42-year-old mom of four, I stopped drinking caffeine, which reduced my calorie intake and left me feeling fatigued. I want to start a calorie deficit but struggle with sleep and time constraints."

Sal's Advice:
"Avoid a calorie deficit to reduce stress on your body. Maintain or slowly increase your calories, focus on high-protein foods, and adjust your workout routine to include manageable strength training sessions."

[85:07] Sal Di Stefano:
"Magnesium and vitamin D supplements can support your energy levels. Maintain your strength training to continue progressing without overloading your system."

Sean from Iowa

[104:31] Sean:
"I want to cut fat and build muscle simultaneously. My DEXA scan showed a rise in body fat percentage despite increased strength."

Adam's Advice:
"Don't compare different body composition tests like InBody and DEXA. Focus on consistent strength gains and use visual progress as a more accurate gauge of your transformation."

Sal's Input:
"Your strength improvements indicate muscle growth. Monitor your progress through regular photos and strength metrics rather than relying solely on body fat percentage numbers."

Conclusions and Final Advice

The episode wraps up with the hosts reiterating the importance of structured training, adequate protein intake, and understanding the limitations of body composition metrics. They encourage listeners to focus on strength gains and visual progress while being cautious of misleading nutritional information and supplement claims.

Notable Quotes:

• Sal Di Stefano [03:41]:
  "If you're not training and strengthening your grip and your forearms, you're affecting the aesthetics and the development of the rest of your body."

• Adam Schafer [05:05]:
  "If you train your forearms and your grip, they'll get a lot stronger even if you don't use aids like that."

• Ryan Seacrest [29:25]:
  "A recent study showed that protein on food labels can be inaccurate by as much as 20%."

• Sal Di Stefano [33:38]:
  "Shilajit sourced from Prima V, such as Organifi's gummies, has been shown in studies to improve male reproductive health and increase testosterone in healthy men."

---

This comprehensive discussion offers actionable insights into building grip and forearm strength, understanding nutritional labels, and making informed decisions about supplements and training routines. Whether you're a fitness enthusiast or someone seeking guidance on overcoming training plateaus, this episode provides valuable strategies rooted in experience and scientific backing.

Transcript

[Adam]

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[Adam]

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[Justin]

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[Adam]

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[Doug]

If you want to pump your body and expand your mind, there's only one place to go.

[Sal]

Mind Pump Mind Pump with your hosts.

[Doug]

Sal Destefano, Adam Schaefer and Justin Andrews.

[Sal]

You just found the most downloaded fitness, health and entertainment podcast. This is Mind Pump. In today's episode we had live callers call in and we got to coach them on air. We got to help them out on air. By the way, if you want to be on an episode like this one, email us your [e-mail] now that all happened after the intro. Today's intro was 62 minutes long. We talk about fitness, fat loss, muscle gain, current events, food labels. It's a good time. By the way, we have a special guest today. Our head trainer Kyle is with us because Justin had to step out. So that's in the intro. This episode is brought to you by some sponsors. The first one is Organifi. Today we talked about their Shilajit supplement, Shiloh Shilajit in studies have been shown to do some pretty incredible things including raise testosterone and reduce muscle damage. They have gummy form that is sourced from Prima V. This is the best form of Shilajit. You can find [e-mail] that's O R G A N I F I.com mindpump use the code mindpump. Get 20% off. This episode is also brought to you by Vuori. This is the best athleisure wear you'll find anywhere. It looks good, it lasts a long time and you get 20% off. Go to vuoriclothing.com that's V U O R I clothing.com forward/mind pump. Use no code. By the way, that link alone will get you 20% off. We also have a sale this month. Maps 15 is 50% off. Now this is some. This isn't some random quick workout routine. It's a fully structured program that solves the number one fitness problem. Staying consistent with Maps 15, you'll get short 15 minute daily workouts that you can stick to. They build muscle. They burn body fat. It's just 15 minutes a day and you can do them at home with minimal equipment. Or if you want to use barbells and dumbbells, there's a version in that for those as well. Head over to mindpumpmedia.com maps 15 minutes and use the code Muscle50 at checkout for the 50% off. Back to the show. One of the most important body parts on your body, one of the most important functions is probably the one you're neglecting and it's taking away from your gains. It's true if you're not training and strengthening your grip and your forearms, you're affecting your aesthetics. But you're also affecting the development of the rest of your body. We're going to talk about how to develop a crushing grip and muscular forearms.

[Adam]

Is this how we're going to get down today?

[Sal]

Let's do it.

[Adam]

Just a shot across the bow, right up the gates. You know, I talked about this on the walker. I know you, Brick.

[Sal]

You did.

[Adam]

Took a walk earlier today and I was just telling the guys how, you know, first time in my life, I actually don't feel like I have really good grip strength. I mean, for the longest time, I felt that was like a strength of mine and I've watched that atrophy and so we're just going to dig.

[Sal]

This is all about you, Adam. No, this is an area that it's funny too, because you look at muscle activation studies and a weak grip actually affects activation up the kinetic chain, the shoulders, the back. And the funny thing is that your, your hands are actually, I mean, they're designed to be incredibly strong. They should be able to follow and match the rest of your body. But because I guess it's not a glorious body part or whatever, we tend to neglect it. And there's a Lot of tools even that encourage neglecting. And it's funny when you, when you look at like for aesthetics. Everybody's interested in aesthetics, right? How good I look. When you look at, especially for men, when you, when women talk about like body parts on a man that stands out, they will almost always mention hands and forearms. They'll almost always mention those things. And yet you rarely ever see anybody training these, which is sad because when your hands get stronger, everything gets you, you feel this across the board in all of your lifts and it's not a hard area to train, but I don't think a lot of people know what to do for them.

[Adam]

Do you think that we need a lot of specific training or do you think just training without a lot of these aids and tools that we have out there is enough?

[Sal]

Well, that'll get, that's a good start. But you know, just like the rest of your body, like it would be like saying, I'm not going to train my calves because I walk a lot. You know, it'd be like saying that training your grip and your form makes a huge, huge difference.

[Adam]

I don't know if I would, I think I would challenge that. You, when you deadlift and lap pull down and row and you are gripping, grabbing, there's a major isometric contraction happening that with that which walking is nowhere near like that.

[Sal]

Yeah, yeah.

[Adam]

So I think that's a little bit.

[Sal]

That'S a good point. But yeah, my point is that would.

[Adam]

Be like, that would be more closely saying just because I use my arms at work in the computer, I expect.

[Sal]

My forearms or I don't train my biceps even though I do a lot of back. How about that, right? Or I do a lot of pressing movements. So I don't train my triceps. The truth is if you, if you train your forearms and your grip, they'll get a lot stronger even if you don't use aids like that.

[Adam]

Because I mean the reason why I bring that up is I went through phases as a kid of like forearms being like a focus where I, I trained them really hard. The best results I ever seen my forms was actually when I, when I got into really heavy lifting deadlifts. Like I just, I never really lifted heavy, heavy deadlifting. And well, that for sure will do it. And that gave me as much if not more gains than even all these like isolation exercises that I was doing for my forearms as a 20 something year old. Now I'm granted, I'm sure there's some carryover that I'm older and I've been training for a long time and so I've got more benefits, but it'd be interesting to see head to head. You know, 20 year old kid wants to develop four forearms. You send one kid on the path of, you know, doing some of these isolation forearm exercises during the week, the other kid you just encourage, get heavy, heavy deadlift, don't use straps, get back, report back to me and tell me.

[Sal]

Where you're, I mean the compound lift. But then the third, a third person I'd add in there is someone who does the heavy deadlifts. Plus, okay, that's some of that stuff, that's fair. But you know, in the real world, your hands are what connects you to the world. So when your hands are not strong, then it doesn't matter how strong the rest of you is because your hands can't connect you to that. And you know, having done, obviously strength training is my, the main thing I've done most of my life in terms of activity, but I've done things like judo, jiu jitsu, wrestling, a little bit of boxing. And let me tell you, you wrestle or grapple with someone that has strong hands, it's a big difference. It makes a big, big difference in their ability to manipulate you and put you where they want. But I want to talk about like the, the tips to building this and then I'm going to give an example of what a program would look like for forearms and grips. So number one, now this is something that I learned from observing blue collar workers, but also from arm wrestlers. Arm wrestlers, I would say are probably the strength athletes that train their hands and the grips the most. And that is to do daily practice movements. And this is very easy. You could get yourself on Amazon, a very inexpensive gripper. And now it's important you get one that's not intense because the intense workouts happen later. But you get one that's relatively easy. And then throughout the day you squeeze it 10 or 15 times. You know, not high intensity, moderate intensity at most. And this does an exceptional job at developing strength in the hands. And then again from observing blue collar workers, you know, people swinging hammers and you know, like my dad would sling mud on the wall for, you know, tile setting and stuff like that. Those guys, they don't work out, but their hands were insanely strong.

[Adam]

Yeah, I think the key to this tip though is the modifying the intensity.

[Sal]

Yeah, this is light. It's light daily stuff.

[Adam]

Yeah. And, and if you've never. It kind of reminds me when I give someone advice too about like. Oh, the benefits of barefoot walking. They go from never doing to, like, running on the treadmill barefoot or something.

[Sal]

It's gonna hurt yourself.

[Adam]

Yeah. So if you've never tried to do, like, free, frequent, you know, gripper exercises or hand exercises like that, start real moderate to low and just increase the frequency over time well before you do intensity. Because this could give you, I think, a reverse effect if you overtrain them.

[Sal]

That's right. And then we get to the different types of strength that you're going to get in your hands and then how to develop your forearms. One of them is to strengthen crushing grip. So this is the strength to actually squeeze. So you're actually going through this motion. And you would train this with a heavy gripper. And you can buy these again, they're inexpensive, but they sell some that are. I think one brand is Captains of. Of Crush, I think is one of the brands. And you can buy these up to like 300 pounds of resistance to where it's like lifting heavy. And that's going to strengthen your ability to crush into squeeze. 300 pounds, I believe it goes up. Maybe Doug can look them up. I own them all. I've had them. Do you really?

[Adam]

Of course you do.

[Sal]

Yeah. I love them. Absolutely love them. Then you have static strength. Static strength comes from holding something. This would be the deadlifts, like you're saying Adam or Farmer Walks or hanging from a bar. So you're not squeezing, you're not opening. You're just holding onto something. This is the most, probably the most functional aspect of grip strength because most of the times you need grip strength. What you need is static strength. Right. The ability to hold on to something.

[Adam]

And I, you know, I also. This also highlights one of the things that we talk a lot about, the benefits of isometrics. I just. Yes, I think this is an example of just. Man, you can get tremendous benefits just from that. I mean, I remember how much it blew me away because there's been lots of, you know, pivotal moments in our lifting careers where, like, I thought one way and then I was. My paradigm was shattered, and I just. The intent was not to get great forearm strength when I was deadlifting. It was purely around the deadlift. And so I wasn't even thinking about my form strength. But it was wild how much that had come up from just, you know, that slow. That slow increase of weight over time of getting stronger in the deadlifts and the fact that I had to hold that bar for all those reps. That's that static strength. Man, it just.

[Sal]

Farmer walks are good for this. Or you can even just hold a heavy pair of dumbbells for like 30 seconds. Doug, how heavy do those go?

[Doug]

365 pounds.

[Sal]

365. Okay, so I have all of them.

[Adam]

Do you crush one of those?

[Sal]

I can do a 365 for.

[Adam]

Really?

[Sal]

Yeah.

[Adam]

That sounds like a lot.

[Sal]

It is a lot.

[Adam]

It is. It is.

[Sal]

It's really, really hard. Next would be your pinch grip strength. So you can hold something with your normal grip. And then you'd want to strengthen where your hands are and your fingers are flat. And this you would use gripping onto plates. And I learned this from an old book. I believe it was dinosaur training, where the gentleman was talking about the. The benefits of this kind of strength. And when I started training this. This motion right here. Right. Hold on to plates, smooth plates, it did definitely contribute to the strength in my hands. So that's just another thing you can do. And then you have the forearms, the tops of the forearms. Right. The extenders, and the brachioradialis reverse curls. Nobody does reverse curls anymore. Which is interesting because it's also a bicep exercise. It's actually a brachialis exercise. But, you know, you'll get people who are really strong with a curl. You have them reverse their grip and everything falls apart. Their wrists just flop forward.

[Adam]

Which is interesting because I would think of all the things we've talked about so far. This is. And correct me if I'm wrong, probably the more aesthetic one to do.

[Sal]

Oh, yeah.

[Adam]

So if you're looking for. If you're looking for the benefits of. Yes. I want good hand strength and grip strength, and I also want the benefits of my forearms looking better. I would think that this would be one of the go to moves.

[Sal]

Yes. And it's functional. Like if you. I remember in judo, like when you grab someone and pull them close to you, you don't grab them with a supinated grip, like you're inviting somebody to break your arm or throw you. If you do this, you're grabbing them overhand and pulling them towards you. That brachioradialis muscle here on the top of the forearm, which you would strengthen a reverse curl. It's this. This right here is a very important motion. And reverse curls strengthen this. By the way, I'm seeing viral. Like, there are, like, viral pieces of equipment right now that are being sold, like home equipment that is all around the grip, and it's all about. And you got guys flexing their forearms and whatever And I know it's viral because I see the comments. So this is definitely something people are interested.

[Adam]

One of my favorites was just the old string on a. Oh, God. Pipe that you just roll up and you roll up a 25 pound.

[Sal]

That is old.

[Adam]

Oh, man. It's just. I forgot all about such a great exercise.

[Sal]

Yeah.

[Adam]

So good.

[Sal]

Then you have wrist curls. This is where you can hold a barbell behind your back and curl in this direction. Very, very basic. And then finally, I think this touches on what you said, Adam. Don't use wrist straps. I think the only people that should use wrist straps are advanced bodybuilders doing endless sets for back. Their volume is just through the roof and. Or strong men who actually compete in wrist straps. In fact, who's the. Who's that one? Strong man. What do they call. He was in that series you guys used to love. The real tall, big giant guy. He's married to the real small, petite.

[Doug]

Oh, Hapthor.

[Sal]

Hapthor.

[Adam]

Yeah.

[Sal]

Okay. He just broke the Strongman world record for deadlift. And maybe you could look it up. It was like a thousand fifty pounds.

[Adam]

He beat Eddie Hall's, huh? Eddie hall had it before.

[Sal]

Yeah, he broke the record now. Now the Strongman will compete with wrist. They're allowed to use wrist straps and that if that's you. And then. Yeah, you should. You should train in them so you know how to use them. Nonetheless. He also has a strong grip. I don't know if you've seen his videos where he picks up ridiculously heavy things. Right. That's pretty awesome.

[Adam]

I. I think the. To me, this is the. The simplest. Like this. Don't change anything in your routine. Just don't use wrist wraps.

[Sal]

That alone will make a big difference.

[Adam]

And I think that'll make a. Especially if you are doing like heavy deadlifting and movements like that or farmer carries exercises that are going to develop it. I think you'd be surprised how far that takes the average person just by itself. And then you add in these other additional ones if you want even further than 505 kilos.

[Sal]

How much weight is that, Doug? Multiple. Do they do the.

[Adam]

That's well over a thousand.

[Sal]

Crazy. To lift a thousand pounds. Eleven.

[Doug]

Eleven pounds.

[Sal]

That is insane. In the video, he just lifts it like nice and smooth and just. Yeah, just. You just expect his spine to fly.

[Adam]

I know. It's just. It hurts just thinking about that kind of weight, dude, is. Is crazy.

[Sal]

It's insane. It's insane. All right. What does a routine look like for something like this Monday I'll give you a good three day week routine. Monday, you would do three sets with the heavy gripper at a. At a relatively high intensity. Wednesday, you would do where you would hold heavy dumbbells for 30 seconds in both hands for three sets. Friday, you do some wrist curls for one set, reverse curls for a set. And then in between on the days off, you mess around with your gripper at a low intensity. In 30 to 60 days, you will dramatically increase the strength of your grip. And the way your forearms look, they do respond. They are muscles like the, like the muscles in the rest of your body. And they definitely will respond. Yep.

[Adam]

So I gotta get to the elephant or the horse in the room.

[Ryan Seacrest]

You call me an elephant?

[Adam]

Yeah, I know everybody's wondering, like, dude, Justin just got way more handsome and young.

[Sal]

And young. We gave him too many peptides. Yes. This is a commercial longevity peptide.

[Adam]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Sal]

Oh, my God. Back down.

[Adam]

You know, so we fired Justin.

[Sal]

That's not what happened. Justin had to leave for emergency. Everything's okay.

[Adam]

Yeah.

[Sal]

But Kyle is our trainer.

[Adam]

Yeah, this would be a fun time to, you know, typically we would reschedule or cancel, you know, for something like this. And we could, we thought, you know, this would be a fun time to bring Kyle in. Those of you that have seen him on the Elite Trainer Academy podcast that we recently started, he's the host of that new podcast and he's also our. Our head trainer who runs everything over here, that whole entire department. So all the trainers that we have underneath and what we're building and growing right now and so how nervous are.

[Sal]

You, by the way, to get on the show?

[Ryan Seacrest]

Pretty nervous. It's, you know, I'm telling you guys, like, man, get in front of the cameras, all the lights and everything is like pretty nerve wracking for even just the, you know, the little podcast that we're starting now, which is like, you know, gets maybe a thousand, two thousand.

[Sal]

Which is a lot. Dude, a thousand.

[Ryan Seacrest]

It is telling me.

[Sal]

I know, but this is millions of.

[Adam]

Very different, way bigger deal if you it up.

[Sal]

No, no, no, no.

[Adam]

Hey, you had this. You know, I, you have to, you have to talk about that because I. One of the things that drives me crazy that I always have to respond to is everybody is like, bring the wife's on everyone's and, and, and, and Katrina's just like, no. She's like, I. And she just knows, like, I don't want anything to do with that. And I remember how long it took me to ignore all the cameras, lights, and all the stuff while you do this and just pretend like you're not talking to a bunch of people. It's weird. And it's weird how quickly that can change from just walking in the door and then sitting here. And it's. It's a different feeling.

[Sal]

Let's talk about your history a little bit, Kyle. When were you born? I'm just kidding. How long have you. You started with us? How long ago? How long has it been now?

[Ryan Seacrest]

It's been three and a half or so.

[Sal]

About three and a half years. And you started now you were a fan of the show? Yep, Started here. And you did not start in fitness?

[Ryan Seacrest]

No.

[Adam]

Yeah, he was working before us, though. He worked in gym.

[Sal]

You were. You were a trainer before?

[Adam]

Yeah.

[Ryan Seacrest]

Well, so I've worked in gym since I was, like, 16. Second job I ever had. I had one job in a restaurant, and I was like, I'm never doing that.

[Adam]

Oh, I didn't know that.

[Ryan Seacrest]

Yeah, I bust waiters.

[Sal]

Oh, bus tables.

[Adam]

You didn't even make it to waiter.

[Ryan Seacrest]

No, I didn't. Literally, like three months. It was like three months. And I was looking for a different job. I had a buddy that was working in a big box gym, and he's like, you know, I could talk to the manager, get you a spot, see. See if we're hiring. And I was in the middle of a workout one day, manager comes up to me, asks if I want a job. I went and interviewed her with her in the middle of the workout, and. Yeah, been in gyms ever since.

[Sal]

That's awesome.

[Adam]

Did you start as a trainer? Did you do, like, front desk first?

[Ryan Seacrest]

No. I mean, when you're 16, you. I don't. I don't think you can be a trainer.

[Adam]

Yeah, yeah.

[Ryan Seacrest]

So I did front desk stuff for a while. Actually. Worked, like, overnight shifts for a really long time.

[Sal]

Oh, wow.

[Ryan Seacrest]

Don't recommend that at 16 years old. And then, you know, as soon as I could, I. I got my certification, started training people.

[Sal]

So you started here, but you essentially were an intern and you did. You did, like, editing for us and.

[Ryan Seacrest]

Stuff, the video editing. So, you know, all the. All the edits on the YouTube, all that stuff, that was me for a little while. Not my favorite thing. Not my forte. Definitely not my.

[Adam]

You did. Well, you remember what you said in the interview, though? I remember. You know, just to get a job, you were willing to do anything.

[Ryan Seacrest]

Yeah, yeah. I mean, it was super random. Like, it wasn't even. I don't even think you guys were, like, officially hiring or anything. I just. I was working as a trainer. I was in a spot where I was trying to figure out what direction I wanted to go. You know, all my friends were in school. I was trying to decide if I wanted to go to school or not. I was enrolled in some classes and actually shot Doug a DM one day. Just said, like, you know, I, you know, I love the show. I've been a fan for years. It's, you know, influenced the direction that I, you know, that I've gone, and I want to keep going this direction, I think. Um, and so then I asked if you guys had any spots opening, and Doug said, well, we have, you know, we're looking for a video editing apprentice. I said, I don't know anything about video editing, but I can learn. And then literally, like, you know, a week or two later, I was out here interning.

[Adam]

Yeah, that's my favorite part of that story for the young people that are listening to this podcast is just that at least I think good leaders, good owners will know to look for character in somebody opposed of, like, technically a.

[Sal]

Skill set, character is the most important.

[Adam]

Took me a long time to figure that out. I. I hired incorrectly for a long time. I mean, early. Early twenties, when I was thrusting Resume.

[Sal]

Resume. Hire.

[Adam]

Yeah, resume. I was like, oh, my God, he's got six national Certs and this and that. And hired, you know, before we didn't have to do an interview. Hired. And it's like, terrible, right? Versus the. The young kid who's like, I'll. I'll do whatever it takes. You teach me, I'll learn, I'll work. I'll work long hours. I'll take the crap. Like that attitude, that character I can almost do anything with. And I think, you know, you exemplify that and, you know, came over with this attitude of. And also moving over states. So it's not like you're up the road. Like, you completely uprooted your life. We didn't pay you, you weren't making any money. You figured. And in the Bay Area, to do that, it's expensive to do that. You didn't complain and say, I need this, I need that. It was like, I'm going to come over here, see where this opportunity takes me. And it was pretty early. I remember the things. I'll tell you what, I'll tell the audience. What I noticed early on was, you know, here's this young kid. At this time, we have. I don't know how many editors and stuff we have working for. It's probably five or so give or take.

[Ryan Seacrest]

It was just Andrew and Geo at the time, actually.

[Adam]

Andrew, Geo you.

[Sal]

Yeah.

[Adam]

And that was it. Why did I feel like there was another intern?

[Sal]

We added more after that. No, after.

[Ryan Seacrest]

Shortly after.

[Adam]

Okay, so shortly after. Was that so. But at one point you had. There was like five editors or so that you're working with. And, you know, we have them all on. Like, we have different threads for different departments. We have in our text message. And, you know, I quickly saw how. How much respect that he got from his peers. Even though he had the least experience in the area, you could tell that the other. Other people that work with him gave.

[Sal]

Him a lot of respect.

[Adam]

And then I started catching him doing things where I knew there was something that he did. And then I would ask the group, and he would always defer to.

[Sal]

He'd give the credit someone else.

[Adam]

He'd give the credit to someone else. And like, right away, I remember telling the guys, like, hey, this kid's going to be. He's going to be good. He's going to be a leader. Because it just. It's not natural to do that. It's natural and, and. And not a bad thing to want the credit for something that you deserve, as you should. But I remember seeing that early on, and then I remember telling the guys that we need to make room for him to take a leadership role. So this is before we even started really building a training department. And I said, we have to give him this opportunity because he's the type of person that if he's going to keep growing, whether we like it or not, if we don't create an opportunity for him to grow within this company, he will seek it somewhere else. Someone like that needs that. And so we really shook up a lot of positions, let go of some people, move people around, and just said, okay, I think you could start helping us build this department.

[Sal]

Now we got this training department. What's the goal? Do you have, like, a big vision for the training department that you know you want?

[Ryan Seacrest]

Yeah, I mean, of course, you know, it's shifted in the last, you know, 10 months or however, you know, however long we've been doing it. I remember I had a conversation with Cole at the beginning of the year. Cole's one of our other trainers here. At the time, I think it was just him. I can't remember if Marcelo had been here at this point or not, but we had a conversation and it was like, hey, this year, like, let's shoot for. I think it was. I think it was 200 or 250 clients, like people that were gonna just change your lives. Like 250 people that were just gonna come in and have a positive influence on their lives. And then like, I mean, that happened quick.

[Sal]

Very fast.

[Ryan Seacrest]

Yeah, very fast. I mean, now we've got four full time trainers, you know, three on the way, you know, a couple more and like down the pipe pipeline right now. And you know, we've got hundreds of clients.

[Sal]

One thing I like is that the, the trying to set the standard. Yeah, there is, there really is no like ultimate standard of what like a great trainer or training department looks like. So the idea is to really set that standard. What does it look like for trainers? You know, because I, I know as a trainer coming up, like, who do you look to and where do you look to build this career? And hopefully we create that. Which I think.

[Ryan Seacrest]

Yeah, and that's, that's a really, you know, it's a, it's a really tough thing to take on. Like, it sounds good, you know, like we're going to set the standard, but that's, that's a daily conversation, you know, with me and the trainers. Like, what does it actually look like? You know, what does it actually look like to set the standard? Because obviously there is no standard. So we don't have anything to look to, to say like, you know, to gauge how well we're doing with that. But I think we're doing a pretty good job.

[Sal]

Yeah, we are. We're not doing bad. You're doing pretty good. Who, when you were listening to the show before you worked here, who was your favorite host?

[Ryan Seacrest]

Actually, I went through phases and, and I, I think that this is probably similar to a lot of people that start out listening to Mind Pump. At first it's always Adam's the asshole. That's always what it is at first. I think most people out the gates are s. Fans.

[Sal]

Yeah. And then, and then I'm the asshole. What's going on here?

[Ryan Seacrest]

It's something with no. And you guys just see this in the comments all the time too. I'm sure, like, everyone gets so mad that you guys interrupt each other. And so it's almost always what it is. If someone picks, picks a side, it usually starts with Sal. And then people are like, okay, Adam's not that bad, I guess. But Justin, I think everybody loves Justin always.

[Sal]

He makes us likable, dude. Yeah, he totally makes us likable. Without him, we'd be totally screwed with that. So that's awesome.

[Adam]

There is a thing that I love That I think I've commented one time on here. I know off air. We've talked about it. That when people. When they think Sal's interrupted me or vice versa, it's not the best way I describe it is my sport analogies of being on a basketball court and. And like, knowing where you're. Like when you play with a team long enough, you know this. You played sports, you get this flow state of where you just know where everybody's at. And I can feel S. And Justin's energy when they're coming to an end of a thought or they're running out of stuff to talk about. And they can, too, with me.

[Sal]

Yeah.

[Adam]

And. And you can just feel that energy. And so you insert yourself to keep the flow going. And everybody else interprets that as, you know, interrupting. And it's like, no, it's a. It's a very. For me, like. And I'm sure Sal is the same way, too.

[Sal]

Love it.

[Adam]

Yeah, it's a. I love it because it. It reminds me. I used to love playing the game, and that was one of my favorite things, is playing with my buddies that I've played with for a long time. And you. It's a beautiful pass. And it's just like, oh, that. And. And only you and him probably really felt it and saw it because it was so fast in the game. Nobody else really understood or saw it completely. It's like that because of the. All the pressures you first talked about of what this feels like in here. And it's just.

[Sal]

I have so many examples that. But one of my favorites is actually a funny story. Adam and I, we went to. I don't remember. We went to do this podcast.

[Adam]

It was Luke. Luke's story.

[Sal]

Was it his.

[Adam]

Yeah, Luke's story.

[Sal]

And Adam gets asked the question, and he's. He's on this great thought, and then he. He starts to cough a little bit. He's, like, coughing. And I just take over the thought now. At the end of it, I knew what happened. And I talk. I look at Adam like, you lost your train of thought, didn't you? He's like, yeah, he started coughing. Let me take over the rest of it. But you can't tell. You couldn't tell when you listened to it.

[Adam]

Yeah.

[Ryan Seacrest]

I mean, it's so funny because people will, like, defend you guys. People are like, like, let Sal finish a thought. Like, it's so funny.

[Sal]

The thought's done.

[Adam]

Okay, so since he asked you that, I'm more curious about, since you've worked here, your relationship with am I still the. Am I still the.

[Ryan Seacrest]

No, that actually, no, that is.

[Adam]

I, I.

[Ryan Seacrest]

That is actually a really good question. And people ask me this all the time too. It's kind of funny, you know, Like, I'm developing my. My own little fan club.

[Sal]

Hey, someone recognized you the other day. Who was it that told me? I think it was Cole. Said someone came up to you and said someone.

[Ryan Seacrest]

Yeah, that has happened to me, which was really weird.

[Sal]

Really weird.

[Ryan Seacrest]

I was out. I was pretty close to here, so I don't know, maybe they knew kind of where the studio was at, so they knew, like, you know, they were already thinking mind pump maybe. But, yeah, someone recognized me out here a few weeks ago. Super strange. Well, um, but yeah, so people ask me this all the time, and, like, it's. It's really. I. I'm in a really unique, cool position because I get to learn things from each of you and I get to pick up on, like, the strengths from each of you, which is, like, of all the things that I've gotten out of working here, like, that's my favorite. Like, that's the coolest thing for me is you each have strengths, and so I get to learn and, like, just, you know, I gotta pick your brain, and I get to, like, develop those things in myself that I see as, like, your guys's strength. So that's. That's by far one of the coolest things here.

[Sal]

That's awesome. All right. You had. You asked you to. We asked you last minute how to be an ass.

[Adam]

You know, Adam was originally this. But not so much now.

[Sal]

Nope. No. So no, I. I asked. We asked you last minute to pop on, and I said, hey, do you have any topics or anything? You brought food labels. What did you learn about food labels that you wanted to.

[Ryan Seacrest]

Oh, I just thought this was really interesting. This was a new, you know, new study that came out, and it's nothing that we don't already know, obviously. You know, you guys talk about on the podcast all the time of, like, food labels being inaccurate.

[Adam]

Yeah.

[Ryan Seacrest]

But there a recent study that showed specifically protein on food labels to be inaccurate.

[Sal]

Really?

[Ryan Seacrest]

Yeah, I think it was somewhere in the range of, like, 5 to 5 to 20% or something.

[Sal]

That's a big range.

[Adam]

It's exaggerated, Right?

[Ryan Seacrest]

Exaggerated.

[Adam]

Okay. So why this is so interesting to me. Okay. Is that we've. We've known for a long time that they, they. They give them the leeway of 20% off. Right. FBA gives them that leeway. And I've said for the longest Time. It's in their best interest because people know that you, you know, or most people are trying to choose choices if you're, if you're paying attention to calories. A food that says it's a lower calorie and, and tastes good is, is appealing to you. So it's going to be in the, in the company's best interest to exaggerate, to underestimate. Underestimate that. But because we know protein is becoming so popular. So this is what is interesting to me is they're probably low balling the calories but highballing the protein. So you're probably eating way more calories than you think and less of the good thing that you think you're getting after it on most of these labels. Which makes it even worse.

[Sal]

They would do because people are a little apprehensive with fat and maybe carbs is, they'll underreport those and over report the protein, which another, this is another plus for whole foods. You weigh a potato or a chicken breast. Yep, that's what it has. You buy a packaged meal and the calories are off by 20%. Like do the math. If your goal is to hit 2,000 calories a day, that means you could.

[Adam]

Be off by 200 calories or 400 calories.

[Sal]

400 calories. 400 calories. So 200 calories puts you at a deficit. Meanwhile, you're eating 2,400 calories, which puts you at no deficit. And then you're wondering what the hell is going on? Why am I not losing any body?

[Adam]

And then to add, you know, injury to insult. There you are. It's hard for most people to even hit their protein intake. And so you're eating a lot of this stuff that's packaged or processed that tells you it's, oh, this is 20 grams. Oh, there's 40 grams and it's off and it's over estimated. So then you're missing your protein intake that you, I mean, it's just, it's.

[Ryan Seacrest]

So funny too, like most of the, most of the protein bars you see at like a gas station and stuff, it's like they're already borderline even being considered a protein supplement with the protein they claim is in there.

[Adam]

Yeah.

[Ryan Seacrest]

So now it's, it's even less.

[Adam]

No, I know. It'd be interesting to see. I'd have to look at the study, like what, what kind of foods they pulled from and if that included shakes and bars and stuff in there.

[Sal]

Some of the worst offenders that we. I've seen studies on are.

[Adam]

Because they're in the business.

[Sal]

Supplements.

[Adam]

I mean, they're in. They're really in the. Like, if you're buying a protein bar, shake it is a person who's reading the label, you know.

[Sal]

Well, you remember the whole controversy around amino acid spiking. So when it. When a. When a company is getting tested for protein content, what they don't do is test all the amino acids. What they'll do is they'll test key amino acids, because we know if we get 2 grams of leucine, then that correlates to 20 grams of protein or something like that. So what companies were doing. There was a protein powder company that did this. It wasn't even a bar. It was just pure protein powder. Is. They'd spike it with amino acids, which is way cheaper. So when it got tested, they're like, oh, yeah, it's 40 grams of protein per serving. Somebody went back, tested it again and said, it's like 20 or 15. And people were getting totally screwed.

[Adam]

Yeah.

[Ryan Seacrest]

So what they mentioned in this study is that most of these food labels supposedly are using, I think, nitrogen content. That's, like, how they're measuring it. So I think the recommendation was, like, actually measuring the full, like, amino acid profile.

[Sal]

Wow. Speaking of supplements, I pulled up and I saved them some. Some studies on shilajit, which is still blowing up. Shilajit is still blowing up. And I brought up specifically shilajit for. For health for men. Really interesting. Check this out. Male reproductive health. There was a 2010 study of 60 infertile men. So these are men with low, like, low enough sperm counts where they're considered infertile. They give them 100 milligrams of Shilajit twice a day for 90 days. In 60% of them, there was a dramatic increase in sperm count and sperm motility in 12%.

[Adam]

So Shilajit, 100 milligrams a day.

[Sal]

Just 100 milligrams twice a day. 200 milligrams a day.

[Adam]

So 200 milligrams. Doug, how much is in a serving of the. You got shilajit right in front of you. What's the.

[Sal]

Yeah, the organifi. Gummies. What is that?

[Adam]

That?

[Doug]

250 milligrams.

[Sal]

Oh, there you go. And that's Prima V. That's like the high quality shilajit. Here's another one. A 2019 study of 63 men found that eight weeks of Shilajit supplementation reduced fatigue, induced declines in muscular strength, and lowered levels of a marker of collagen breakdown in Other words, it helped with recovery. There was also an animal study that showed it reduced chronic fatigue syndrome. And then there's others that show increases in testosterone. There was a 2016 randomized double blind study. So this is like gold standard of healthy men between the ages of 45 to 55. 250 milligrams of purified Shilajit, like the. Like the one that's in organifi. Same dose for 90 days. Significantly increased total testosterone free testosterone and DHEA levels with no significant changes in gonadotropic hormones like LH and FSH. So it's like a. It's one of the few testosterone boosters that works on healthy men. Most of them only work if your testosterone's.

[Adam]

Buyer beware, though. I mean, this is like, you're. Oh, yeah, they're popping up everywhere.

[Sal]

Prima V. That's the one that you can trust.

[Adam]

That's organifi.

[Sal]

Well, organifi uses Prima V. Yeah, they. They source them. The. From the. The real Himalayan shilajit that standardize.

[Ryan Seacrest]

Have you guys ever tried other brands of shilajiti? Terrible.

[Adam]

Yeah.

[Sal]

Oh, it's terrible.

[Adam]

I mean, Organavi has always been so good. Like, about. I mean, let's be honest. That's one of the things that. How we got connected was I. None of us have ever liked the taste of a vegan protein powder, ever. Vegan protein powders are normally dog. It's like. And organizers. At first, I was like, this is actually really good for.

[Sal]

Not bad.

[Adam]

Yeah, especially you can't compare it to whey. I think that, like, when you're comparing vegan protein powder, you have to compare to other vegan protein powders. Nobody compares organifi as far as the taste goes. And they've been that way with all. They've done such a good job. Drew's done such a good job with all their products actually tasting.

[Sal]

Are you. So you've tried straight. Are you like, a supplement guy? Have you tried a lot of weird supplements?

[Ryan Seacrest]

I. I'd say I'm a supplement guy. I'm not, like, I'm not on your level, but good. I'll try things that you give me. That's. That's one of my favorite games to play. Sal just hands me a couple of pills, says, take these.

[Adam]

He's got that power over all of us, bro. I trust him. He gave it to me.

[Sal]

He's like, must be okay. Oh, God. Back in the day, I was just talking. We were joking with Doug because we were teasing Doug about, like, stuff you could buy in the back of comic books back in the day when he was a kid. Like X ray glasses which were fake or whatever. I used to. I remember muscle magazines. And in the back of muscle magazines they would always have these ads for like weird exotic supplements. And they would always position them like, oh yeah, oh, this is some secret.

[Adam]

They would put like Soviet. Put like a needle on it. Oh, they have all these names that rhyme with like real testosterone stuff.

[Sal]

I tried so many different.

[Adam]

Banned from so many states. Like you would have all kinds of.

[Sal]

Stuff like that one time I spent of my own money. And this is a night. This has to be. Let's see if I'm. I'm 16, so I think it's 1995 or 96. This is my own money. This is not adjusted for inflation. So this is the money I spent back then. I spent $250, okay, which today is worth something like 10 million if you get inflation. $250 on a supplement stack. Now there was an. It was a hard gainer stack. And of course I think I'm the biggest hard gainer. And it was this before and after picture of this guy that looked like he was skinny and then became a pro bodybuilder. That's how crazy that before and after was. And I thought this is going to work because there's 15 bottles. Like this is for sure going to work. And I got this stack of 15 supplements and nothing. I got nothing from it. I didn't get anything at all.

[Adam]

Do you remember the ergogen stack at the apex had the muscle building one where you took oxybolic creatine, essential amino acids. I mean I must have been taking 50 pills.

[Sal]

You did the same thing.

[Adam]

I need to take the creatine. Was 10 of those horse pills, bro.

[Sal]

They were huge.

[Adam]

So I mean it was like a meal to get all those stuff.

[Sal]

They were like biscuits.

[Adam]

And I had the same thought too of man, if I get. If it's all of this, it must work.

[Sal]

It's for sure gonna work. Nothing stupid logic got nothing from it whatsoever.

[Adam]

You know, you talk about old stuff. I. Doug, did you. I don't know if you heard me talking about this. Maybe you can look this up. I wanted to, to get the numbers on. I was just fascinated. I heard it was, I think on a podcast. This guy was breaking down just the, just the deterioration of our dollar. And it was like 1974, 1975. Look at what the minimum wage was and then look up the price of gold was. And then take the. Take that ratio to Today's minimum wage to what?

[Sal]

Gold. Compress gold.

[Adam]

Yeah. And it was.

[Sal]

So our money. Our money has lost so much value.

[Adam]

So what it. So basically the, the math on it was, you know, minimum wage was. I don't know what it was, but really, really low. Right. It was a couple bucks. I don't remember what it was exactly in the mid-70s, but it was a couple bucks. And in relation to gold. Okay, so for our minimum. If our minimum wage would have just kept pace to the gold standard of what it was back then, you should be. Minimum wage should be roughly around $320,000 a year salary for somebody.

[Sal]

Now, that's not that, by the way, for people who are like, yeah, that's what. No, no, that doesn't mean minimum wage should cost that much. What that's pointing to.

[Adam]

Yeah.

[Sal]

Is how much our money has been devalued.

[Adam]

Yes.

[Sal]

It's been devalued so much that gold to dollar ratio has just completely become totally destroyed.

[Adam]

I mean, I knew it was bad, but that's like. That puts it in a whole nother perspective and also makes it like, no, no wonder it's so difficult. I mean, you think about this. You have two little ones that are coming up. I mean, you have two that are entering in the workforce real soon here, and then you have two really young ones. Like, I'm. I'm under the belief that the, the what it's going to look like you are going to have to, as a parent, have a house that you already bought or put a down payment for your kid in order to probably guarantee that your kid could even have a house.

[Sal]

This. Good conversation. So, so when you. I had this debate with my cousins the other day. So there's a lot of things that have countered the devaluing of the dollar, like increased efficiency and how we create things. So that's actually offset it quite a bit, but with houses. Because my cousin was like, oh, my God, when no, no. Came to this country, you know, it only cost him this much to buy a house, and he only did this job and he supported a family. I'm like, okay, let's compare apples to apples. In 1960, the average American home that was being built was, I think, a thousand square feet. Today, the average American home is something like 2,300 square feet. Back then, the average American home didn't have air conditioning. It didn't have the appliances, didn't have three TVs. Today we have all this. So if you go apples to apples and you compare what people were Making back then to now, and you compare actual price per square foot, it's actually pretty close. The diff. The problem is here where we live. You can't. I mean, my grandfather. When my grandfather came to San Jose, San Jose was orchard. It was farmland.

[Adam]

Yeah.

[Sal]

Still orchard. This was not an. It was not an expensive place to live. This was actually inexpensive place to live.

[Adam]

Yeah.

[Sal]

Now it's Silicon Valley. So. But when you compare apples to apples, and it's funny, like, people are like, oh, my God, it's so expensive to. To raise a family now. It's like, well, how many cars you have? Do you have Internet? Do you have, you know, all these appliances, TVs? Do you go on vacations every year? How often do you eat out?

[Adam]

Is it really. That's an interesting thought. Like, I never thought to look at it. Like, that is like. Okay, you're right. So is that true? That. About a thousand something square, please.

[Sal]

Like, what's the average size of a home in 1960?

[Adam]

Do the math.

[Doug]

I did do the math. So I use 1971, which is when we went off the gold standard.

[Adam]

Okay.

[Doug]

So it's $35 an ounce back then, and it's now 3270 an ounce. $3270 an ounce for gold. The minimum wage back then was $1.60 an hour, so that's $149.50 per hour is what we should be making.

[Sal]

If it was tied to gold. If it was tied to gold.

[Adam]

Yeah. So then what would that be like?

[Doug]

So let me figure that out. That for 52 weeks, that'd be $310,930.

[Ryan Seacrest]

Wow.

[Adam]

Exactly what I said.

[Sal]

I know.

[Adam]

320. That's that crazy.

[Sal]

Yeah.

[Adam]

That's wild.

[Sal]

It's crazy.

[Adam]

Yeah.

[Sal]

Yeah.

[Adam]

Blue mo. So go back to. Okay, so you and Doug, you look this up too, because he said, I want to fact check him, because I didn't know this is true.

[Sal]

The average size of a. Of America. Of an American home in 1960, and then average size of an American home today, it's more than doubled. Really? Yeah.

[Adam]

That's a. I mean, it's a really fair point to make because we. I, obviously, we just. We always. We say that.

[Sal]

Expect way more.

[Adam]

Yeah.

[Sal]

Now, my grandfather. I was trying to tell my cousins this. Like, how often do you think my grandmother and grandfather went out to dinner? Never.

[Adam]

Right.

[Sal]

How often do they go on vacation? Never. How many cars they have? One.

[Adam]

Yeah.

[Sal]

Did they have Internet, cell phone? Like. No, they had none of those stuff. So it's what you got.

[Doug]

So the average in 1960 was 1200 square feet.

[Adam]

1200 square feet.

[Doug]

Now it's 2200. That's a median though.

[Sal]

That's a mid. So almost mid range. Yeah.

[Adam]

So yeah, that's fair.

[Sal]

People expect a lot more. Just like cars. Like cars are so much more expensive now, but cars. Base car now has stuff that didn't even exist 50 years ago. Yeah, I remember I was telling my daughter this. My daughter.

[Adam]

And you technically could buy a really.

[Sal]

I mean if you can find one.

[Adam]

A 10 year old car that's roll down windows. I mean you pay hardly anything.

[Sal]

Dude, I was just talking to my daughter. So my daughter's got her driver's permit. She's doing driver's Terrifying, by the way, as a father. It's like most terrifying things when your kid gets a driver's license. But she's like, tell me about the first car you bought. What was it? And I was like, it was a Toyota pickup, it was four cylinder. I bought it myself. $10,000 cash out the doors, what I paid. It had no power windows, no power steering. If you ever drove a car with no power steering, it's hilarious. Trying to turn while you're parked. No. No air conditioning. Like it was stick shift.

[Adam]

Another great point Doug just brought up right there too. Your average TV. One TV you had was a 21 inch RCA white, by the way. Black and white. 21 inch, yeah.

[Doug]

$260.

[Adam]

What's your smallest TV you have at your house?

[Sal]

Not 21 inches. Yeah.

[Adam]

You have probably multiple. I won't, I won't admit how many I have. And you definitely have the smallest ones. Probably triple that.

[Sal]

No. What's happened, Arthur Brooks talks about, this is our, our wants, what we think our needs are. Has grown so much that now, in fact this brings me to a point of our dropping fertility rate. Our fertility rate is plummeting and a lot of people are like, oh, it's because it's so expensive to live. And that's the reason why. That's not the reason why. Not the reason why at all. I don't think anybody would trade Living today versus living in 1950. Way more difficult back then. It has nothing to do with the cost of living we have. We think we need all this other stuff, which we don't. It has everything to do with the people are becoming more and more self centered and self focused. You know, in 1950, people expected to raise a family and they expected to sacrifice their time. And I'm a dad and I'm a mom now. It's like I don't got time for myself and I'm so busy and how can I do all these other things that I want to do? I have all these, you know, I have these kids and it's like, it's just different.

[Adam]

Okay, so challenge, challenging question for you. Then back to what I was kind of alluding to, which is, you know, are we going to have to put a down payment or pay for our kids house? And do you do that or you do you teach the lesson you're talking about right now that honey, you, you need to want less.

[Sal]

Yeah.

[Adam]

What do you say?

[Sal]

Yeah. No, the want less is going to give them way more returns for their whole life rather than me buying and setting them up now. I'm not going to say I'm not going to leave them with something or help them out. I'm way better off than my parents were. My dad was a poor immigrant, so, you know, God bless them. They couldn't pay for my college. I had to buy my own car. So I'll help them out. But yeah, if you, if you raise your kids to not feel like they need so much, I think that's a great lesson. I think it's a great lesson for everybody, you know, to learn.

[Adam]

Yeah. I can't help but think right now, I mean, even it's crazy. It is right here. If you just went to Gilroy, which is, you know, 30 minutes south and bought a thousand square foot apartment, it's probably not that crazy.

[Sal]

No, no.

[Adam]

Yeah.

[Sal]

But there's places in the country. It's still very, it's still pretty damn inexpensive.

[Adam]

Yeah.

[Sal]

We live in an expensive ass.

[Adam]

That's right. So that's, I'm just defending your point even more that like we, we have, you know, yes, we've devalued the dollar. Yes, all those things are true and it's gotten crazy. But it seems so much crazier because our expectations have grown so much more too. And so, no, it's truly.

[Sal]

All right, I got another question for you guys I'd love. And I already know the answer, but let's say because I saw there's this guy, Stephen Meyer, I think I'm saying his name right. He's this, he's a PhD, very smart guy. He makes an argument for intelligent design or theism, right. That there's a God, right. And he goes through and breaks down the odds of things and he gives this example. I think it's so great if we all somehow flew to Mars and we landed there and we saw a computer on Mars. Would you think to yourself, wow, look at that. This happened by chance or what you think somebody made this computer? That's kind of a cool way to do it. Yeah, that's a cool way to do it.

[Adam]

So I mean I've always thought this way. I know especially the. The more and I don't know if I does this harken back because of. I was. Was raised in learning a lot of this stuff early on. Or would this have been my, my core beliefs before? I question that, of course my bias. But it does seem to me like the more you understand just even about nature and I'm not even a big nature guy, like where I know that much, but just how synergistic everything is and almost magical how it all works. Well, it's just like the, the chance of it all just kind of working like that is there.

[Sal]

You can get the odds. So he actually broke this down. And if somebody showed this to me when I was an atheist, I think it would have gotten me to really open my mind. So trip off this. Right. A minimally functioning biological system or a simple self replicate replicating molecule. Do you know what the odds are? Because you can calculate this. Actually I will do this for you. So not you, but like literally a molecule that can self replicate. Super, super basic. What are the odds that that would happen through the mutation process by chance? The number is a one followed by 60 zeros. In other words, one in a trillion trillion, trillion, trillion, trillion trillion that this would happen. You want to know what the odds are that complex life would come out of all that? A one followed by a thousand zeros. AI literally says impossible. It would be impossible. Isn't that wild? And I like how AI is teaching me that.

[Adam]

That's fascinating.

[Sal]

It's crazy. It's like a tornado flying through a junkyard and assembling a supercomputer. Yeah, it's not gonna happen. It just.

[Adam]

Yeah, the, the idea of the landing on Mars and finding a computer and then.

[Sal]

Yeah, none of us were no scientists. Every scientist, like there's aliens. Someone made this. No way this happened by chance.

[Adam]

Yeah, that is kind of. And that's nowhere near as complex as the human.

[Sal]

Not even close. Not even close. Yeah, I know. I love that kind of stuff.

[Ryan Seacrest]

Speaking of Mars, did you guys. I don't know how real this is, so maybe fact check me on this, but I saw that they're sending a young girl to Mars.

[Sal]

What?

[Ryan Seacrest]

And that she's not expected to return?

[Sal]

No, I Don't know if it's. Can't be real to you. I don't know what you sound like reading there.

[Ryan Seacrest]

No.

[Sal]

You're taking Justin's position really seriously right now. That's something he would say.

[Adam]

Good. Conspiracy.

[Sal]

Let's go. Yeah, bro, let's go. I love.

[Doug]

She's 12 years old.

[Ryan Seacrest]

She was young.

[Sal]

I mean, she.

[Ryan Seacrest]

I think she was in her early 20s or something. And she's not expected to come back.

[Sal]

Young girl to Mars. There's a big difference between the two.

[Adam]

Doug's a Google champion.

[Sal]

Google champion.

[Doug]

I'm gonna put a computer right over there so you can do it yourself.

[Sal]

No, there are no current plans to send young children.

[Ryan Seacrest]

Will you look up young child? Just put woman child.

[Sal]

Yeah, yeah. Are we just put. Are we sending a woman to Mars? Don't put young either. Yeah, I don't know why you said young. It's your age, bro. You're the same age as that girl you just said. While no woman has been sent to Mars yet, several women are actively training and preparing for future Mars missions. One such woman is. Who is that? Who has dedicated her life. NASA Blueberry, to becoming. So you know what? So she's actually going to try and go.

[Ryan Seacrest]

I think that. I think that might be what I saw. I don't know. So it sounds like there's not any official plans yet.

[Sal]

But, dude, you know what's crazy about this?

[Adam]

Like, she's trying to go.

[Sal]

If we send someone over there, they won't come back.

[Adam]

Yeah. The time it takes. And how much you.

[Sal]

And how would you get them back? How would you get them back? You don't have the fuel. You can't.

[Adam]

Yeah.

[Sal]

Would that be okay? So here's what.

[Ryan Seacrest]

So with her.

[Sal]

So. So you're with her.

[Doug]

She is kind of cute.

[Sal]

So here's. You'll be so bored, dude. Oh, my God. You'd be so bored. You get an argument. Yeah. Nowhere to go. So the US Rebelled from England, Right. England comes over here, sets up these colonies. Eventually we're like, we don't want you to tell us what to do. Like, is that what's gonna happen on Mars? We're gonna send people over there and send them instructions from Earth, and eventually they're gonna be like, today's our Independence Day. We're our own planet. Yeah. What are you gonna do? What do you do?

[Ryan Seacrest]

They'll be pretty dependent on the. On the Earth.

[Adam]

That's a good point.

[Sal]

Until they weren't.

[Adam]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Sal]

Just like the colonies here.

[Adam]

That's a good point. Yeah, that's exactly how it'll go. So long as they're dependent and we're sending them food and whatever.

[Sal]

Eventually. Like, why are you telling me what to do? Yeah, we're independent now.

[Ryan Seacrest]

I've seen. I think it's on Apple. I think it's called For All Mankind. No, great TV show. Really highly recommend.

[Adam]

I started to get into it for a little while.

[Ryan Seacrest]

So it's basically like the. The way that it starts is it starts with, like the space race with Russia.

[Sal]

Yeah.

[Ryan Seacrest]

But then what happens is it's obviously hypothetical. What happens is Russia beats the US to space, and then it like, plays out how that would.

[Adam]

That's right. That's right.

[Ryan Seacrest]

So then the next thing is, like, who can establish a base on Mars or on the moon? And then the next thing is who can get to Mars first? Great TV show.

[Sal]

You guys know there's a. There's an international treaty, right, for the moon? No. No country is allowed to put a base on the moon. Wow. Yeah, the Soviets and the Americas.

[Adam]

I know one's been there anyways, huh? No one's been.

[Sal]

Got to get there first before you build. Well, you know what? Hey, think about it, though. Think about the show. The strategic advantage a country would have putting a base on the moon to launch, you know, nukes from.

[Ryan Seacrest]

Yeah, that would be really good dramatic show.

[Sal]

Oh, I want to watch that.

[Adam]

Yeah, I started to watch. I can't remember why I fell off of it. You know why? Because it's science fiction and Katrina's not into science fiction. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, I do have to share the TV with her.

[Sal]

At least one of the TV. One of the TVs do. So. Hey, how do you feel about our trainers wearing Vori?

[Ryan Seacrest]

Oh, I love it. I love it. It's. It's like this perfect. Like, it's exactly what I want for our trainers because a lot of trainers are, like, super underdressed, which I just can't stand. You walk into a big box gym and it's like you just got like, crappy, like, basketball short.

[Sal]

I love this kid.

[Adam]

Yes.

[Sal]

Yeah, I agree.

[Ryan Seacrest]

So it's. It's more professional. I like it.

[Sal]

So you. So you're two super pro trainers wearing a uniform.

[Ryan Seacrest]

I love it.

[Sal]

Yeah.

[Ryan Seacrest]

Like, we. So obviously Vori has, like, you know, we have like the regular T shirts and stuff that they'll wear, but we also have the polos, too.

[Sal]

Yeah.

[Ryan Seacrest]

Looks great.

[Sal]

I 100% agree. When I used to own my studio, I made myself uniform shirt. I don't. I Own the place. But I always wore uniform shirts. I think it presents.

[Adam]

You have to something. I don't care what you say. And even if this is a small percentage, it's still a percentage of people that are going to judge you by your appearance. And if you're put together, sloppy, if you're telling my trainers this, your hair is all disheveled and your shirt's all untucked or you don't have. You just, I mean you.

[Sal]

I don't, I don't care if you take your job.

[Adam]

I don't care about your client you've had for three years. It doesn't care that you like you rolled out of bed. But you're also meeting with Tim who you've never met before and you have no idea if he's going to find that disrespectful or think you're. And then if you look that way, you're already. And it's not to say you can't talk your way out of that hole and still find a way. But like why, why start there? Why not start with this profession that you know for sure nobody's going to judge you negatively for looking sharp. And it's just like, why put yourself at a disadvantage of a job that's already really hard for people to have a lot of success in?

[Sal]

Like, no, they look good.

[Adam]

Start with that.

[Ryan Seacrest]

Especially, I mean in this studio. It's like we have a really nice high end looking studio. Like it's got to match 100.

[Sal]

All right, I got, I got another interesting take on supplements. Dr. Ronda Patrick did a post. Oh and for the first. And she made a really good case. She made a really, really good case on why it's maybe better or possibly better or probably better that instead of eating fish to get your Omega 3s, it might be better to take the supplement.

[Ryan Seacrest]

No way.

[Sal]

I don't buy that trip off. So listen to this.

[Adam]

Is it just because how bad like all of our fish are?

[Sal]

Yep.

[Adam]

Oh, okay.

[Sal]

Omega 3 supplements, you can't not compare.

[Adam]

It to wild fish.

[Sal]

Yeah, well, you're right. But so listen what she says, okay? Omega 3 supplements may be a safer way to obtain essential fats compared to fish due to environmental contamination. Most fish contain microplastics and heavy metals that enter our bodies when consumed. High quality Omega 3 supplements address this issue. They're purified. How wild is this interesting? Because they find that, that a lot of these, a lot of these fish, fish you find or buy, it's got microplastics. They're Heavy. And look, you get Omega 3 is great but now you got microplastics.

[Adam]

Now that's got to be in the farm.

[Sal]

Farm worst.

[Adam]

Yeah. I mean if you're out in Alaska fishing and getting fish, you can see.

[Ryan Seacrest]

The color difference in the two. Like the farm to fresh.

[Sal]

Oh yeah.

[Adam]

They, they, they look different, they taste different.

[Sal]

You know, they add to farmed salmon, they add pink dye so they look.

[Adam]

More like that and they still look. That's how bad they're. They're so bad. They're so bad they're dying it to look that way.

[Sal]

And it still is. You know I ate, I always, I didn't know this, but I always ate farm salmon. And the first time I ate wild caught salmon, I didn't realize it was salmon. I'm like, what is this? Because it was much better. It just wasn't the same. Farmed salmon is like, it's like half fat. It's like this fatty, super hyper fatty fish. Wild salmon is actually lean in comparison.

[Adam]

Yeah.

[Sal]

Again, another argument for, you know, going that route. The same size of a serving leaner with more protein.9 ounce, you know, 6 ounces of farmed, 6 ounces of. Of wild caught more protein and less calories.

[Adam]

You think in our future, even with all the technology advances, do you think we're going to get more? So funny you brought this up too because this was on my conversation with Katrina. I just told her yesterday or day before that I want to make a conscious effort of like going down the farmer's market and starting to one not only support our local farmers, but also get better about like buying stuff like that. That it's grown in someone's little private farm where it's all, all organic, all better. And I know there's a lot of. I just watched the guy that actually Josh has just been talking about the kid that's viral. He was interviewed with Jordan Syat and Jordan Sight was talking about some of these pesticides that organics use.

[Sal]

Yeah.

[Adam]

That are, they're as bad, if not worse.

[Sal]

Heavy metals are high, can be high.

[Adam]

Not even that he even, he named a pesticide that was banned.

[Sal]

But they use it in organic.

[Adam]

But they use it in organic.

[Sal]

You know what's crazy about wild. Here's a challenge with wild fish. Name a meat aside from wild fish that we still go get in the wild. Like we don't because the demand is so high. And can we meet the demand by just going out and fishing in the ocean? The actual truth is farmed fish might be the future because how can we meet the demand? Yeah.

[Adam]

Okay. You're talking about fish. There's. You can still get wild deer.

[Sal]

And when's the last time you ate that?

[Adam]

Well, no, I mean, it's been a while since I had it when I live in Colorado, my neighbor.

[Sal]

But imagine if we didn't have any cattle or things that we raise that way we run out of, you know, it would be difficult. So they just have to. I think farming farmed fish, they have to really look at the practices and change them, because I don't know how we can keep. I mean, you could get. You can still get wild caught fish, and you can still get it decent, but if everybody went in that direction, I don't think they'd be able to support the consumer. Yeah, because you got to go out in the ocean and get it all. I don't think it's enough.

[Adam]

You think it's that. That. That would be that big of a demand?

[Sal]

Huge. Huge.

[Adam]

Yeah, that's. I mean, that's the. I mean, you. You right now with price is how you segment that to where it's just like, it's more expensive. You're gonna pay for those. Those types of things. So I don't know. I just. I feel like I have a little, like, set up to where I can do a garden in my backyard, and I haven't started yet. My goal is next spring is to start.

[Sal]

Are you gonna start gardening?

[Adam]

Yeah.

[Sal]

You're gonna grow vegetables?

[Adam]

A couple things.

[Sal]

Really?

[Adam]

Yeah.

[Sal]

Yeah. Like what?

[Adam]

Well, I mean, tomatoes are identical to growing marijuana. So I should be able to. Should be able to take care of some tomatoes.

[Sal]

Should be able to take care. Yeah, you're probably a hell of good.

[Adam]

It's actually. It's identical. Actually, a lot of people don't know that. So all your ratios of NPK and everything like that is identical to.

[Sal]

I forgot, bro. You're a total farmer nerd. Because of weed.

[Adam]

Yeah. Yeah. No, and let me tell you, it's. The art of doing that is like, Katrina, always bust my chops because I'm always asking her to tend to all the plants. She's like, you're the one who has a green thumb. The family. I'm like, you're the chick.

[Sal]

You're supposed to take care of our flowers. I was like, when we grow food, I'll take care of.

[Adam]

Like, when we grow food, I'll take care of it.

[Sal]

I said, but the flowers.

[Adam]

Come on, you can keep some flowers alive.

[Sal]

So, tomatoes, what else would you want to grow?

[Adam]

Green onions, tomatoes? What Else did I tell her I only want to do a few things.

[Sal]

I don't want just for fun. Yeah, well.

[Adam]

And I don't want to bite off more than I can chew.

[Sal]

I mean, you got to go to my. My parents house. My parents, they have a typical San Jose backyard. It's not a huge backyard, it's like a typical. But my dad, every square garden. Oh, bro, he grows. You know, he loves it. He goes out there and he makes. He grows. Green beans are just so good. And tomatoes.

[Adam]

We have a. We have a peach tree and a lemon tree. That this year, that was just. It was so cool to be able to. To get them off the tree and stuff like that this year. And it's like, it really inspired me to do that. I'm like, you know, and our neighbors came over and brought their tomatoes from their garden, and our other neighbors brought over their eggs. And I'm just like, oh, man, if I grow a few things here, I could really kind of have. Eat a lot of our stuff locally and. And homegrown. And I want to try my best to. To kind to. To do that as much.

[Ryan Seacrest]

Chickens are a great idea. I would love to have chickens.

[Adam]

Yeah.

[Sal]

Ask Justin about that.

[Adam]

Well, here's why. When they're close to the house, they bring like, rats because of all the. The feed.

[Sal]

Yeah, he had to kill a chicken too. It was traumatizing. Really? Yeah, dude. Yeah. I forgot why you had to kill a chicken, but it was barely.

[Adam]

I mean, I've killed a lot of.

[Sal]

Well, you've done forever. But he's like. He's saying. He says I had to, like, go dark, bro. I had to go like, into like, killer mode to kill it because it was too hard.

[Adam]

You know, that say, like, running around with the chicken with her head cut off too. Like, that's a real thing. Like, you cut a chicken's head off, he'll run around. So yeah.

[Sal]

Yeah.

[Adam]

So it's like, yeah, it's a trip. But yeah, you can. I mean, if you have some cats or some things to keep it at bay, you'd be all right. But if you just in you. You're inviting some other rodents to probably come around, so you'd want to have it a decent distance from the house. And I think Justin's was pretty. Pretty close to his house, and he already lives kind of out in the country and did. Probably didn't think about that.

[Sal]

Yeah. So you ever work on a farm?

[Ryan Seacrest]

Not an animal farm. I worked on a blueberry farm.

[Sal]

I knew it. I don't know why I said a blueberry farm.

[Adam]

I did. Yeah.

[Ryan Seacrest]

You guys haven't heard the story?

[Adam]

No.

[Ryan Seacrest]

This was, like, mid Covid. I had nothing else to do. And me and my buddy, he had a. He has, like, some. Some guy he knew that was, like, some investor in this farm in North Carolina. And we were just kind of sitting around, couldn't work, couldn't do anything. And so we're like, I go flat to North Carolina, work on this blueberry farm.

[Adam]

I did not know that.

[Sal]

That's the most random thing.

[Adam]

You actually flew to another state to tend to blueberries.

[Ryan Seacrest]

We lived in this, like, crappy little motel. It was like, you know, I don't know, a couple hundred dollars a week or something like that. And the pay was terrible. It was not at all worth it for pay. Like, it was like 14 an hour or something like that. Yeah, it was terrible. It's intense, like working on a blueberry farm. Intense.

[Sal]

What do you mean? So you have to. You have to, like, pick them?

[Ryan Seacrest]

No, so we didn't pick them by hand. They have, like, these machines and tractors that kind of, like, you know, kind of shake them off the bush and puts on, like, a conveyor belt kind of thing. But it was intense because if it was gonna rain, you had to get as many of the. The blueberries off the bush as you could because the rain would, like, knock them off into the ground. They'd be bad. So if there's a storm coming, it's like we were out there sometimes till, like, 2:00am like, trying to get all these blueberries off the. The bushes.

[Adam]

What?

[Ryan Seacrest]

It was intense.

[Sal]

That's. That is.

[Ryan Seacrest]

So it's like 2am it's raining. I'm running through the mud like crazy.

[Sal]

How long did you do this for?

[Ryan Seacrest]

It was, like, probably a month and a half, two months.

[Sal]

So you're the teenage kid. How did you find board?

[Adam]

How did you find that?

[Ryan Seacrest]

It was my list. No, my friend, he just knew some guy that I think was, like, an investor in the farm or something.

[Adam]

Okay.

[Ryan Seacrest]

He's like. Like two young kids, like.

[Sal]

And you're bored? Yeah. That's the last thing I would have done if I was bored.

[Ryan Seacrest]

It was interesting.

[Sal]

That's wild.

[Adam]

I'm trying to think how old I was when I did the bees. That's what that reminds me of.

[Sal]

Did it want to go down your butt crack?

[Adam]

Yes, bro. I've never. That's actually the only. Technically the only thing.

[Sal]

The big bee suit. Right.

[Adam]

It is the only thing I've ever quit in my life. I've never quit a job or anything like that. Adam in a b suit, dude. I mean, I didn't. It didn't. It didn't bother me into. And what. What it was. The irony of it was there wasn't even a bee in. In the suit that was doing this was the sweat. I was sweating. It was so hot. And the sweat was running down my back and then down my butt crack. And I thought it was a bee climbing in my. In my butt. And it. I freaked out. Ran away from the. Stripped everything off. Stripped my clothes off. I was like, I can't do this.

[Sal]

Like, just the. The.

[Adam]

Because you have to just get used to them crawling all over you. And it's like you. The two. I remember when I got suited up in it, like, the suit I had was from the 80s.

[Sal]

You know, it was like holes in.

[Adam]

It and stuff like that. You put duct tape on all these holes and I'm on. And they. They find a way. They. They. They finagle away into your suit. No matter how taped up you were. At least the one I was in. They final. And it's just normal. You. You. All of a sudden, they'll be flying inside your veil, and you're like, there's a be inside with you. And you do this. You just lift your helmet up. You wait for them to fly there. You smash them on your head. You keep going about your business.

[Sal]

That's just.

[Adam]

That's the game. And you do that. So you already know they're getting in there. And then all of a sudden, you. I. And I'm getting hot from doing all so this. And I can feel. So it feels like crawling like, you.

[Sal]

Know, sweat almost feels like a bug.

[Adam]

Is crawling on you. And I can't tell the difference. And so. And that was. It was bothering me so much, and I'm sweating so much, it's like I couldn't. I couldn't handle it. And the fact that it's going in my butt crack was just like, that was enough.

[Sal]

That was my line. That was it. That's my line. I was like, I'm out.

[Adam]

I'm like, keep the money. I was like, keep the money for my night tonight.

[Sal]

You got a few hours out of me for free.

[Adam]

I can't do this anymore. That was it, dude. It was a hell of it. But similar experience. Like, I can't even remember how I took the job. I was a young. Like you, a young kid who was just looking to make money and willing to do almost anything. And you had a family Friend sit around. Yeah, yeah, that's how it was. Like, it was summer and I. I wasn't work. I wasn't. Was at school, wasn't working at somewhere else. And someone had a beehive job moving. Like. We basically show up in the middle of the night too, because that's when they sleep. So you show up at 2 in the morning and you. There's, you know, just. We have a big diesel truck and I'm loading up just box after box after box, hours of loading up. These bees, you smoke them out to calm them down and they're, you know, they're crawling all over you and stuff like that. That was never.

[Sal]

Yeah, I never do that. Yeah.

[Adam]

Yeah.

[Sal]

That's crazy.

[Adam]

Yeah, I won't ever again.

[Sal]

Element is an electrolyte powder you add to your water with the right amount of sodium. No artificial sweeteners, no sugar, and it's got enough sodium. Most of them don't have enough sodium to make a difference. This one does 1000mg per serving. Why is that important? You get better pumps, better performance. You feel better. If you need electrolytes, you should use Element. Go check them out. Go to drinklement.com element mind pump on that link. You could get a free sample pack of their most popular drink, mixed flavors with any purchase. Here comes the show.

[Doug]

Our first caller is Allison from Pennsylvania.

[Sal]

Hi, Allison.

[Adam]

Hi, Allison.

[Allison]

Hi, guys. How's it going?

[Adam]

Good, Great.

[Sal]

How are you? Hello.

[Allison]

I am good. It's really nice to meet you and thank you so much for having me on your show.

[Sal]

You got it. How can we help you?

[Allison]

Yeah, so let me give you a little backstory here. Throughout the majority of my childhood and adolescent years, I struggled really bad with obesity. I finally got to a point where I got sick of feeling the way that I was, and I started walking, exercising, eating healthy, and the weight started to drop. That eventually kind of transitioned into me taking on running, which I fell in love with and I still love running, but it didn't really, like, my physique did not look the way that I wanted it to. So from there I started incorporating weight training and I saw a huge difference. But now I'm to a point where I'm, like, stuck and I'm not really progressing in either one of those categories. And I've never had any type of structured training and I don't know where to go.

[Sal]

Okay.

[Adam]

Have you. I. First place I'd want to know is kind of what. What we've been doing eating wise. Because normally when we stall out on the strength training spot. It's because we're not quite feeding our bodies enough in order to continue to build muscle. So have you tracked calories before and macros?

[Allison]

Yes, but to touch on that just a little bit, I. I have some issues with tracking calories and weighing and things like that. It just. I start to develop unhealthy eating habits when I start to do that, so that I've. There's so many different factors that I feel like are kind of working against each other.

[Sal]

Yeah, no, that's good. That's fine.

[Adam]

It's normal.

[Sal]

That's perfectly fine. I would say just chase protein. Eat it first. That would be the only thing I'd worry about. 120 pounds. If you ate 30 to 45 grams of protein per meal, you'd be totally fine. You said you don't have a structured strength training program.

[Allison]

I've never. Everything that I've done is just kind of been on a whim and. Oh, God, it's worked to a certain extent, but, like, I need. I need help.

[Sal]

That's an easy fix. Oh, look at you. Phenomenal progress. Allison, you just pulled up your picture there and. Okay. Yeah. If I just put you on one of our programs, you're gonna blow your mind.

[Stella]

Yeah, Just that alone is gonna do.

[Adam]

You do that and you. You chase the protein like Sal saying, you're gonna see a world of a difference.

[Sal]

And I saw in there you wanted to get your deadlift up and you want to. Okay, all right. Maps anabolic. Done deal. That's it. Follow Maps Anabolic. And you know what? Let me have you back on in three months because I can't wait to hear about the progress, if that's okay.

[Adam]

Don't neglect. Don't neglect, though, really trying to get after protein, because typically, what ends up. The reason why I brought the calorie thing right up is what happens for someone who's lost a lot of weight like that ran a lot, you're burning a lot, and you're not consuming a lot. And in order for us to build muscle, we need to be in a slight surplus. Doesn't be a lot, but a slight surplus. And so go after that protein. And that protein's essentially building muscle.

[Sal]

Along those lines. Are you still running?

[Allison]

I am. And I. So I. Can I do that with running anabolic.

[Sal]

Depends how. How much you run.

[Allison]

So I am running right now roughly three days a week, sometimes four. And I have one day that I. I dedicate to, like, long distance running where I don't do any Type of weight training. Like, I cut everything else out.

[Sal]

How many? Okay, what does your whole workout routine look like? You run three days a week.

[Allison]

Yep. And I generally lift four days a week.

[Sal]

Oh, God. You're gonna blow your mind. When you follow a program. Follow maps anabolic. Yeah, you can go ahead and follow the three day a week version. There's two options in there. Go ahead and follow three day a week version. How long are you running when you run? Three days a week? How many miles?

[Allison]

So one day I'll run a 5k. One day I'll run literally, like, as long as I can. And sometimes that's between 15 and 17 miles, which is kind of crazy. And then generally the other day, it's about, like, six to eight miles.

[Sal]

Okay, here's what you're gonna do. You're gonna not do that long run anymore.

[Allison]

Okay?

[Sal]

You're just gonna run two days a week. You're gonna run 5k on both of them. That's it. That's it. That's it. Two 5k runs just so you can keep some of your endurance and stamina because you love it. And then lift three days a week. Maps anabolic. You're gonna blow your mind.

[Adam]

And for sanity reasons, if that feels like you're cutting so much out of your running, go for nice walks. Put the podcast in your ear and go.

[Allison]

Yeah.

[Adam]

The same distance you would run. You can walk.

[Sal]

Same time.

[Adam]

Yeah, the same time that you would run for. You can walk. Walk for and listen to the podcast.

[Sal]

That's right.

[Adam]

That's your. That's your homework. Okay.

[Sal]

Okay.

[Adam]

You do that. You do that. You go after protein. Don't need to get crazy with counting. Just go after your protein. Follow mouse in a blog. We're gonna blow your mind.

[Sal]

Yeah. And I'll tell you something, you got good genetics because if you. If you're building, like, the physique that you are doing that kind of running.

[Stella]

Yeah, that's.

[Sal]

You're gonna. You're gonna get real good progress if you do what I tell you.

[Adam]

Yeah, you're gonna be fun to help. You're gonna be fun to help.

[Justin]

I heard it.

[Allison]

You guys are the experts, so that's why I came to you.

[Sal]

No, let's do it. Map's anabolic. Two days a week, you do your 5k run. If you want, do more stuff, you can walk, and that's it. Hit your protein targets. You're going to blow your mind. Yep.

[Allison]

All right, awesome. Well, thank you guys so much. I really appreciate everything you do.

[Sal]

You got it.

[Adam]

Yeah. Check back with us in at least three months. We want to hear from you.

[Sal]

We'll see you then.

[Adam]

Okay.

[Allison]

All right, sounds good. Thank you guys.

[Sal]

Thank you. That, that just for people listening right now, that would be like, that's the kind of client that I would like. Yes, yes. Hire me because I'm a blow your mind right now. Yeah, yeah. It's going to be huge because she looks like she knows how to lift and she's actually just mostly running and, and she's beating herself up. So she's got some muscle building genetics there.

[Adam]

Yeah, yeah. She's gonna do well, very well. Reducing that amount of running and following good programming. Oh, God. The one thing that'll be important that I know we didn't get any calories and I know we don't like, you don't want to take somebody like that who isn't. But what can happen is like. And we'll just use hypothetical numbers, you know, she went from eating 25 or 3, 000 calories all the way down to like 1500.

[Sal]

Just goes too low.

[Adam]

Yeah. And she's really low. And she's doing. That'll stall. That'll stall a physique out real quick. And so if she just kind of focuses on, on getting after protein more than what she was before, hopefully that gives enough of a little bit of a boost in calories and what the nutrient that she needs and she'll build.

[Doug]

Our next color is Stella from Illinois.

[Adam]

Stella, how you doing?

[Sal]

Stella, how are you?

[Adam]

What's happening?

[Morgan]

Doing great. How are you guys? Thanks for having me.

[Sal]

Yeah. How can we help you?

[Morgan]

I'll read off my email and just get straight to it. So a mom of four, I'm 42 years old. I have a 14 year old, 9 year old, 6 year old and almost 9 months old. So I, there's like so much to kind of talk about. So I stopped drinking caffeine in the past three, four months. And so in the meantime that was giving me a lot of calorie intake because I had a lot of cravings with the coffee and it sounds crazy, but plus energy drinks, plus pre workout and all that stuff. So I cut it all out, kept going to the gym four or five times a week. Felt really fatigued, really terrible. So with the calorie intake, because I was tracking my calories, I just decided that I was reverse dieting. I was like, you know what I'm going to call it reverse dieting. It is what it is. And so now my big question is because the baby still doesn't sleep great. She's, she's a good baby, but I'm still waking up. I'm not getting any more than three to five hours of like a good shut eye at the end of the night. So I'm up early with her between like 5, 36, 30, 7 o', clock, we get up and I'm up for the day. The only thing that's consistent throughout my day is my 9 o' clock class that I take. I go to the gym at 9am and after that I come home, do whatever at the house. Then I go to work between 2 and 3 and then I get home around 9 or 10. And whenever I get to bed, I get to bed. So that's like my big question now. So my concern is I want to start like a calorie deficit because I do want to lose some weight now that I feel much better, more like myself. I'm seeing really a lot of more improvement. At the gym. I felt like my nervous system was shot because of all the caffeine intake. So that's good. I feel stronger, I feel better at the gym. So I feel like now I'm ready for that calorie deficit to start. So I feel like I need, I want to go on a deficit. I've been in a deficit before. Before the baby, I was probably in the best shape ever, like ever in my life. So then I got pregnant and kind of back to where I, I started. So I want to start my calorie deficit. I slowly have decreased my calories just a little bit because I need to maintain that energy. I stand all day for work. I'm a salon owner. Problem is I just don't know my time frame for like eating because I want to maintain a calorie deficit, obviously keep my energy. But it's hard for me to kind of guesstimate that window because I'm up so early and then I'm kind of up kind of late. It's just. It is what it is. So that's like my biggest concern right now.

[Sal]

Yeah.

[Adam]

Are you, are you, are you still breastfeeding or.

[Morgan]

No, no, I stopped that.

[Sal]

I gotta say this too, by the way. You mind if I talk about how much caffeine you were taking at your peak because you wrote it?

[Morgan]

No, I don't mind at all.

[Sal]

So by the way, I've trained a lot of people like you, Stella. You're a, what you would, what we would call a cortisol junkie. Yeah. So this like you fit into an avatar. Salon owner. Lots of caffeine, little sleep. Go, go, go.

[Adam]

Savage.

[Sal]

You're burning everything. You're burning the candle at both ends.

[Morgan]

Oh, yeah. Like, that midday crash is like another level of awful.

[Sal]

Yeah, but you. Yeah, so what you. What you shouldn't do is go on a calorie deficit. You're gonna throw another piece of stress at your body and. Okay, yeah, you'll crash. You'll crash out hard. You'll probably get some hormone issues if you haven't already.

[Adam]

I want to know more about the 9am class also.

[Sal]

Yeah, and then also, that's the other thing I was gonna say. It's probably great that you get away for a little bit of time for yourself, but I don't. I don't. I'm gonna guess. Let me just guess, that the 9am class is like a crazy workout class.

[Adam]

I'm gonna assume it's not, like, theory or. What is it?

[Sal]

Yeah. What are you doing?

[Morgan]

Absolutely not. No, I. That stuff, I mean, I loved. You know, once in a while I was at, like, a big gym where I like taking all kinds of classes, but I really love strength training. I love conditioning. That's what my gym is. My coaches are phenomenal. So it's all geared toward, and it's. It's all programmed out. Every month we got a program. It's amazing. It's like today was deadlift day. We did deadlifting. We did a little bit mobility, you know, stuff like that.

[Sal]

So it's traditional strength training.

[Morgan]

So I. Yeah, and I love strength training. I'm not into, like, that crazy cardio and all that nonsense. I love going in lifting heavy because, you know, I have a back issue. I have degenerative disc disease. So I feel like ever since I've been strength training for the past, like, eight years, on and off, it's. It's really helped me stay strong for work too. Like, I stand on my feet. I. My back does not hurt. My shoulders don't hurt. None of that stuff.

[Sal]

Oh, good.

[Morgan]

So me being strong, that, like, helps me, you know.

[Sal]

So, Stella, you're doing, like. So the class is like traditional strength training. You do a set, you rest periods. You do a set, you rest. Or is it like, circuit?

[Morgan]

Yeah.

[Sal]

Okay.

[Morgan]

Yeah.

[Sal]

Oh, good. Yeah.

[Adam]

Great.

[Sal]

Yeah, you're good. Don't go in a calorie deficit. That'll. That'll add a mistake. Right now, I. I would keep you. I would keep you at maintenance or I'd even continue to slowly bump things up. Keep your protein intake high, and. And I wouldn't overdo anything. I mean, how many. How often are you taking the class in the morning? How many days a week?

[Morgan]

At least four to five, for sure.

[Sal]

Yeah. You're probably better off going three and maybe just walking the rest of that and then just letting your body heal a little bit. Because part of the reason why you're getting that crash is you're just. You're just doing too much. Poor sleep, plus the stress, plus the work that you do. You're on your feet all the time. You know, you just got off the caffeine not that long ago, I think it would be. And you just had a baby nine months ago. It takes about two years for a woman's body to get back to normal height.

[Adam]

You look really great.

[Sal]

Yeah. You're resilient as hell.

[Adam]

Yeah. So. And I get the temptation of you're starting to feel good and then that makes you want to go push. But I don't know if that's the right move right now. I think, yeah. I would really want to hear, like, as we're going to these 9am classes that are strength based, which I love is like, are we getting stronger? Like, that's what I'm like, you know, Is the deadlift going up? Is this. Is the shoulder press going up? Like, how are we doing with stuff like that?

[Morgan]

So my deadlifting, yes, 100%, like, it really affected the caffeine, was really affecting. I'm very in tune with my body because I feel like I just have to be. It was really affecting my nervous system, like, working weight. For deadlifting, I could do like between 165, 185, depending on how I'm feeling. And I couldn't push before the caffeine cut, like more than 125. And I'm like, there's something wrong, you know? And so when I cut that out, I'm like, all right, let's see how it is. And after about a month, I was able to start pushing heavier weight.

[Sal]

Good.

[Morgan]

My squats were a little bit better. Everything started going up. So that being said, I feel stronger. We do a lot of kettlebell work. I was able to do a PR with my Turkish getup, so that made me feel good. So I'm like, all right, I'm doing everything the same. No sleep, whatever. The only thing that was huge for me and difference was the caffeine intake, you know. So I used to do. Before the baby, I used to get up and do a 6am class. So I would just get up, grab a shake, and just Go and then come home. And then, you know, at the end of my night, I would come home and just go to bed because the kids are older, they could just, you know, I don't have to worry about a baby. And then after the baby, everything's kind of shooken up a little bit.

[Sal]

Yeah. Yeah. You got to take it easy for a little while and you'll actually progress faster if you take it easy. Three days.

[Morgan]

So here's my question, though, in. Because we do have a program, right? So like, every day is this. Every day is different. Every week is the same example. Like Mondays are full body conditioning, you know, strength training. Tuesdays we deadlift. Wednesdays we do benching. Thursday the squatting. Fridays are full body. Just like Monday. I'm not sure which day to kind of eliminate.

[Adam]

You drop. You drop the one full body. You drop one of the full bodies, drop.

[Sal]

Monday, the conditioning day.

[Adam]

Yep.

[Sal]

Stick to the strength. Yeah, stick to the strength training. Just. Yeah, just do this. The squat, the deadlift, the squat day, the full body day, but drop the conditioning day. Don't cut your. Don't cut your calories. You'll get. You'll. You'll progress faster that way.

[Adam]

Yeah, for sure.

[Sal]

And by the way, caffeine for sure was frying your central nervous system, especially at that dose.

[Morgan]

Unbelievable. I've never felt like that before in my life. But it was just like.

[Sal]

Yep.

[Morgan]

You just become robotic after a time. I mean, people chain smoke. I was like chain making coffees. I'm Greek. So I'm just waking up, just making coffee and that. My eyes are still shut, just making the coffee, you know, like going to work, making a coffee, stopping by my husband's restaurant, grabbing a coffee. It's like there's no reason for it. It just. And I love the way it tastes. It's not like it was giving me energy, obviously.

[Adam]

You know what, good for you, though. I mean, coming off of that is a lot. Not a lot of people can make it off of that. So good for you.

[Sal]

Ashwagandha would be a good supplement for you.

[Morgan]

So would I started taking it.

[Sal]

Good.

[Adam]

Oh, good.

[Sal]

Ashwagandha red juice.

[Adam]

Red juice by Organifi is incredible.

[Sal]

Yeah, Creatine would be good. And I would also. Good. And I would also look at magnesium, vitamin D as well. So you probably eat meat, so you're probably okay with your B vitamins. You're Greek, so I haven't met too many vegan Greeks, so.

[Morgan]

Yeah.

[Sal]

Yes. Yeah. So. But yeah, magnesium would probably be another supplement.

[Adam]

You're doing really good. I think I would just be encouraging you to, like, let's, you know, let's wait a little bit longer. Let's wait till the baby's a little bit older before we start to get a little crazy. And if I can get you stronger and eating a little bit more calories, that's the main goal right now. I feel like, can we keep going up? Can we keep going up on calories? Can we keep getting stronger? And then as. As the baby starts to give you a little bit more sleep, then we can say, okay, maybe pick up that class again. Or let's, let's, let's cut now. But right now I think you're just starting to feel really good, and I still think there's more good for you ahead.

[Morgan]

I hope so, because I love it. I mean, it's like the gym is the only thing that is consistent for me. So if I don't go, I'm literally at home, like, all right, what am I doing? You know, go for.

[Sal]

You could go for a walk. So Monday, instead of doing the conditioning class, if you found something like a yin yoga, you could do that. That'd be good. Something recuperative or even walking would be good. And then diet wise, just eat healthy. You can avoid things like processed foods and gluten, which oftentimes are inflammatory for people. But yeah, and you said your husband's restaurant and you're Greek, so you got great access to good meat, good rice, good vegetables. I think if you stick to that, some fruit, I think you'll do great.

[Morgan]

All right. What time, what. What window frame would you suggest? Considering my. And I don't want to call it fasting because I don't like that word at all. I just, I just need, like, that window where it's like, all right, you're up at 6am and then you're gonna go bed to bed at like 10 a. At 10pm, 11pm when do you think a good cutoff would be for that?

[Sal]

Now, why do you want to cut off? Is it because of the structure?

[Morgan]

I feel. Yeah. And I just don't want to go to bed eating at like 9pm you know what I mean? Unless you don't think that's a problem.

[Sal]

I think if you don't eat an hour or two before bed, typically in the morning, though, in the morning, you should start with some little bit of protein and fat in the morning. That helps stabilize blood sugar for the whole day.

[Morgan]

So you don't think it's a big deal for me to stop eating after certain points.

[Sal]

No, no, no, no. But a couple hours before bed, so it doesn't affect sleep. But in the morning, even if you ate just a couple eggs, just to give you some fats and some proteins, that tends to stabilize blood sugar throughout the day.

[Adam]

Especially if what you're eating later, too, is balanced and good. I mean, if you're making good choices. I actually don't even really care how late you're going, really. Especially if you give a little bit of a break before bed.

[Morgan]

Like, my husband cooks every night. He has the kids at night while I'm at work, so, like, yesterday he grilled. So he'll grill some steaks. That's the bowls. Or I just come home and just, like, have just a steak, you know?

[Sal]

Yeah, there you go.

[Adam]

Yeah, that's great. Yeah. I eat good, but, yeah, perfect.

[Sal]

That's it. That's it.

[Morgan]

That's awesome. I did get a few programs, too. Like, in the beginning, when I was home with the baby, I got. There was like, a. She was born in October, so there was, like, a holiday bundle.

[Sal]

Yeah.

[Morgan]

So I picked it up. That was. Those are awesome.

[Sal]

Yeah. Well, you got a very. You're very resilient. Did you say you're 42? You look. You look a good seven years younger than that. Okay.

[Morgan]

Yeah.

[Sal]

Yeah. Was the baby planned, by the way?

[Morgan]

Not really. I mean, listen, you know, God has other plans. I was in the best shape ever, and I was like, man, I feel so, so good. I. I've never felt better in my life. And, you know, I'm standing in front of a mirror all day, and, like, my clients were like, man, you look awesome. And I'm like, yeah, dude, I'm walking my steps. You know, I'm telling them everything I hear about, like, you guys don't listen to podcasts. Like, I'm always like, there's podcast. There are a bunch of dudes. I've told her brothers. So I feel like literally listening to you guys is hysterical. I'm like, I feel like I'm with all the boys, and it's so fun. Like, I crave it. I get in my car and I drive to work, and I'm like, all right, 10 minutes of this, and I'm, like, ready to go. You know, I just throw you guys on.

[Adam]

No matter what, the fact that you went into this pregnancy in the best shape of your life, you're going to be so grateful you did that. I mean, I. To me, that. Is that all set up?

[Sal]

Is everything.

[Adam]

All the clients I trained that had babies The. The women that went in, in their best shape of their life, man, you. You come out great, you rebound great. You'll be. And. And you're very common where I have to tell them, like, hey, hold on, hold on. I know you're ready. I know you're ready to go get after it again. But they're still. It's still going to keep getting better by taking it easy. And don't worry, there's going to come.

[Morgan]

A time I have to, like, if it's okay to give a shout out to my coaches and my gym, I would. I would love to, because they're. They're phenomenal.

[Sal]

I mean, doing good work.

[Morgan]

They're two amazing trainers, and they're. It's a privately owned gym, and there's so much, like, work and effort and patience that they put into all of it. And I bring the baby with me. It started off with, like, all right, I'm gonna slowly come back, like, two days a week. And they're like, of course, bring the baby, you know, so she would sleep half the time, and then somebody would pick her up. And, like, now she comes all the time and she just hangs out. And if it wasn't for that, I don't, like, I don't even know what gym I would be able to go to, you know?

[Sal]

So give them a shot.

[Adam]

Yeah. Who are they?

[Morgan]

Yeah, so it's Ray and Robin, and they're in Park Ridge at Adaptable pt. They're just phenomenal.

[Adam]

I mean, I love the structure, the way the classes are structured. If I was going to do a class that's rare, that's how I would build it. Like that. We talk. We talk about that all the time. We're like, if you were to do a class, it would be focused on a lift, and then you have a. I love. I love what they're doing.

[Morgan]

So, yeah, amazing. And it's. I, like, I constantly tell people all the time, like, you gotta, like, work out and just be functional, like, you. You. Like, I have kids. I have to be able to, like, move and function and do stuff, pick them up, all the good things. But a lot of people are scared of it because it's like, so do you guys do cardio? That's, like, the number one question. I'm like, what does that even matter? Like, who cares about cardio? Yeah, you're sweating. Are you guys here swe. Yeah, you're gonna sweat so well.

[Sal]

Good job.

[Morgan]

But, yeah, they're great.

[Sal]

Good. Good job. They're doing good.

[Adam]

Keep it up, Stella.

[Sal]

Thank you.

[Morgan]

Thank you, thank you. Thank you, guys. You guys are doing amazing. It's just incredible to just listen.

[Sal]

Appreciate it.

[Adam]

Thank you.

[Sal]

Thank you so much. Yeah, that's. That's. I love that they let her breed the baby. I used to do that with my clients. I'd let them bring their kids.

[Adam]

Good, good. I was so worried about clap and she said clap.

[Sal]

So was I, because she.

[Adam]

Oh, she does.

[Sal]

She fits the avatar, bro.

[Adam]

Orange theory or.

[Sal]

Yeah. The hair salon owner. You know exactly what I'm talking about on caffeine.

[Stella]

Just like, go, go, go, go, go, go.

[Sal]

Yeah, no, no, no.

[Adam]

But you know what I mean. She looks phenomenal. Four kids, 42. Like, just came off of, what, nine months ago.

[Sal]

Yeah, she's doing great.

[Adam]

She looks already amazing. But that's a testament to her lifting going into it.

[Sal]

That's right.

[Adam]

You know.

[Sal]

That's right.

[Adam]

I mean, the fact that she's pumped out, four kids, working. Yes. Looks great. And, you know, and again, just ha. When someone's done as well as she's done and where she's at, there is that temptation as soon as you start feeling better to, like, get after. And it's like. Yeah. I mean, I remember Katrina. Katrina went into having Max in the best shape of her life. And when she came out, she. She was so stubborn. I was trying to get her to run map starter, and she's like, I want to. I'm like, you don't need anything else yet. You have, like, you progress faster. And she was so antsy to get out of it because she was feeling good. I'm like, it doesn't matter that you're feeling good. You don't need any more. Your body will respond from this. And so reap. Let's reap the benefits of this while we can. There'll come a time down the road when you plateau from this, and then we'll ramp up intensity. So, yeah, stay the course.

[Sal]

I gotta say this, too. Greek food is bodybuilder food. Yeah, it's like the. It's like the closest to how a bodybuilder would eat. That's good.

[Doug]

Our next caller is Morgan from Idaho.

[Sal]

Hi, Morgan.

[Adam]

How you doing, Morgan?

[Morgan]

Hey, how are you?

[Sal]

Good.

[Adam]

How are you doing?

[Allison]

Good, good. Thanks for taking my question here.

[Morgan]

So my question for you guys is kind of two parts.

[Allison]

One, if you.

[Morgan]

If you've got any advice for kind of how to structure nutrition for children.

[Allison]

And then the other part of my.

[Morgan]

Question is being parents yourselves. You kind of know, sometimes you plan to cook food for your kids. And they just don't want to eat it. So kind of for me, you know, some of my fallbacks are really heavily dairy based. So cheese, cottage cheese, yogurt. I guess if you guys have any advice for, you know, other ways to make sure that my child's eating well, that's great.

[Sal]

Full fat dairy is a, is a great nutrient dense food for children. Yeah, it's really good. So you're doing good with that. Eggs, meat, these are all very nutrient dense foods that have a lot of the stuff that they need for a growing brain. So you're doing great there as far as like cooking or making a meal for your kid that they don't want to eat. I mean, a couple strategies with that. One is just what we're eating, and if you're not hungry, you're not hungry, what you don't want to do. And you're young, so maybe your generation experienced this, but mine did where it was like, you better eat all your food. And what it did is it promoted this dysfunctional eating pattern in all of us where we eat everything all the time. But the truth is we live in a modern day western society. And it's not like when my grandparents in Sicily where it's like, you gotta eat all this because I don't know if we're gonna get another meal soon. So you have to eat this all because otherwise you're gonna be malnourished. So when they don't want to eat, it's like, okay, that's fine. One thing that my wife does is she has an area that the kids can reach that have what we call anytime foods. And these are foods that they like, but that we also are okay with. So it typically has like blueberries, raspberries, apples, it's got some nuts in there, the kids like it. And if they're ever hungry and they want to eat, it gives them a little freedom. And those are called anytime foods. So it's like, oh, you're hungry, Go in the anytime food fridge and grab whatever you want. And that's, I think, pretty much it. I think one of the challenges or the things that we tend to do sometimes as parents is we put so much pressure, especially for a fitness fanatic, so much pressure around food that you end up causing more problems than, than solving them. So just, just that's what we do.

[Adam]

At my house, mine was just what we had to eat. We all ate together. I. This is a tough one for me because I haven't had a lot of challenges with Max eating and I Don't know if that's just because I got lucky with a kid or was it really to. Due to the consistency that Katrina and I, when we sat down and ate, we all ate the same. Even when he was really, really little. It was just we chopped it up really, really small or smashed up the potatoes to where he eat it. But it was like we all ate the same thing every single day. And that was what was to eat. And so, and but what I was. What I did do that I think a lot of our parents generation did wrong with Sal's point is like, if my son wasn't hungry, he didn't have to eat the whole plate. He didn't have to finish. It's like, he's done, he's done. And then he'll be hungry again. And then there'll be that. I'll put that in the refrigerator, put in his little cup thing. And then if he's hungry again, I bring it back out, we warm it up, and then we have that. I mean, I mean, that's what we eat. That's what we all eat together. I. I find my friends that have a lot of options or eat out a lot, and then the kids get opportunities to try McDonald's or try the fast. Then all of a sudden they go, oh my God, I want French fries every night, or I want pizza every night. Because so Max didn't have any of that. We didn't introduce any of those foods to him at a young age at all. And so he only had what we had. And when he was hungry, he would eat. So I'm sometimes not the best person to talk to with this advice because I didn't struggle with this as much.

[Sal]

What happens with this too, Morgan, is sometimes as parents, we think, but they have to eat right now. So then what we do is we will make the nuggets or the food that we know that they like because we're afraid that they're not going to eat. But the odds that your kid's going to starve is like not. It doesn't exist. Kids don't starve.

[Stella]

There's all this anxiety around it. But yeah, they're going to be hungry.

[Sal]

And they're going to eat.

[Stella]

It's the thing. And my youngest was really our toughest with this. And we had to just discipline ourselves to know that, you know, he's going to come around. Like right now he's kind of, you know, being stubborn and just doesn't want to eat. But later on he'd get hungry and he'd just eat it inevitably. And so we, to Sal's kind of point with that, too, like, what we did was we had it. So it's like almost like buffet style a lot of times where they could just pick their own foods and put it on their plate just to give them, you know, a choice. And I think, you know, giving them a choice and helping in that direction, that, that was somewhat of a. A win for us. And then the other one, I mean, my wife did a really good job of incorporating and blending in a lot of greens and things like in, you know, these type of waffle blends where she'd use, like, you know, better flour options for that and, you know, in. In ways of incorporating protein, you know, in, in smoothies and blend, this kind of thing. And so she got real creative. And there's books out there for all that kind of stuff. So if you feel like, you know, you want to get creative with that, that helps. But, yeah, I think, you know, just do your best because it's, it's a battle. And, you know, like, at the end of the day, they're going to be fine and they're going to be hungry and they're going to eat.

[Sal]

Yeah. The thing, the thing that you want to consider is what are the modern challenges with children, which are different than they were historically. And so what's most important with a child, there's two things. One is that you give them a little bit of autonomy. So that means you give them choices. Now, you approve of the choices, but you also want them to feel like they have a little bit of autonomy. You want them to, when they say they're not hungry, to not eat. And when they're hungry, okay, here's your choices you could choose from. Because what you're trying to develop is a good relationship with food because that's what's going to serve your child in America. In America, in a modern society, a good relationship with food is what's going to keep him healthy. Not that he has to eat everything or eat when we're supposed to eat. That actually can serve in the wrong direction. As far as, like macro splits and stuff like that. I think we get a little too.

[Adam]

I don't even worry about that.

[Sal]

No.

[Adam]

Even though I say Max is this great eater, I'm also not measuring his grams. I don't care. Like, you eat, you eat. Here's the things we eat. Here's a portion of meat. I'm not really weighing it, tracking it, wondering how what his mat like, as long as he's every meal we're getting a little bit of protein, a little.

[Sal]

Bit of carbs, and then like one op. Like, like one way to like, with. Develop. Helping them develop their palate is what you would do. So my. What my wife does is she puts a plate forward with different options, kind of like what Justin said. And she'll put like one or two things that she knows they like, one thing that maybe they'll eat that we want them to eat. And then we'll put a new food on there. Yeah. And we'll give them the option, same thing. And oftentimes they don't touch the new food, but sometimes they'll taste it. And what she'll do is she'll introduce, like, sometimes she'll put like sugar free ultra dark chocolate. Why? Because it's gonna. It's gonna introduce bitterness to their palate. Or she'll put an olive or like broccoli or asparagus, kind of these stronger flavors. And then little by little, what I. What you see, you know, so they'll taste a little bit of it, and then they'll start to develop more of a palate. But it's really about these kind of choices. And when. This was hard for me, man, because I was raised where, like, we put a. Like, if my kids don't eat, there's this internal freak out that I have. They're not eating enough. We got to feed them. You know, let me make something else. I know they'll eat this. And my wife was really helpful with this. She's like, they're not gonna starve. You're gonna be okay. So it's like, you know, if, oh, you're not hungry, okay, you don't have to eat. And then when they're hungry, they'll eat. It's not a big deal. Yeah. Cool.

[Morgan]

I think that pretty much answered my question. Thank you.

[Sal]

Yeah, you got it. Thank you so much.

[Morgan]

Have a good day.

[Sal]

Yeah, this was. Man, I was raised so different.

[Stella]

Oh, completely.

[Sal]

Oh, my God, completely.

[Stella]

I had to eat it the next morning and then put it in the refrigerator if I didn't finish my plate. Oh, just begrudgingly.

[Sal]

Eat this. We used to have meals with, like, our family. So all the cousins would get together, aunts and uncles. And my grandma would literally, I swear to God, she did this. She would come out, love her. Wonderful woman. But she was raised totally different. Time, time, she had a timer. She'd set the timer and she'd say, let's see who finishes their plate first. They'll get a dollar.

[Adam]

It's crazy that. What's crazy is the whole family didn't turn obese from that.

[Sal]

We have a lot of obesity in my family. Or bulimic. There are people in my family that struggle with obesity. Thankfully, we ate like whole natural foods because everybody was home, was home cooked.

[Adam]

Yeah.

[Sal]

Let me tell you, bro, in my family, a lot of us struggle with overeating. Because you put it in front of me, I feel like if I leave it, it's a sin.

[Adam]

So I didn't ask. I see she put up there, like some of the pouches and things like that. I wonder sometimes too. I always feel like what ends up happening is people introduce foods that these kids end up loving so much that then that becomes the only thing that they want to eat. And keeping it bland and plain for as long as you can serves you. So we, we blended up the sweet potatoes. Instead of using the gerber sugar fucking infused stuff that they have that the kids love, we blended the sweet potato. We blended his meat up like when I was really, really little. So he was so used to this bland taste that he didn't have these like sensors going off.

[Sal]

One thing too, I'll add, with the blended food, we stay away from pouches because again, thank God my wife looked into this. Your child's jaw and teeth develop from chewing, chew. And so when you're blending food all the time, they're actually not developing a good, strong, broad jaw that fits their teeth that does all this because you're giving them split.

[Adam]

Well, that was part of. Max's speech was delayed because we blended too much too long.

[Sal]

Yeah.

[Adam]

Katrina was so worried about him choking. That was like, even when he was ready to be chewing, we were still making it too easy for him. And that delayed his speech. And so that, I mean, so obviously it was not perfect with the food at all. All. But when it comes to, like the cravings and the stuff that I feel like, I feel like a lot of people introduce these processed treats and things and then the kids brains go, oh, I want that. Yeah, yeah, that's all I want now. And this bland steak, chicken and sweet potato tastes like. But I, you know, I think if you delay that for as long as you can, they don't know that doesn't taste good.

[Sal]

And it is so hard to fight these. I still find myself, like, I'll get called out all the time because my kids, well, I'm not hungry. They'll leave the table and then I'll finish eating. And then you know what I do? I Take their plate, and I follow them around while they're playing. And I put the fork in front of their mouth while they're playing, so they mindlessly will take a bite.

[Stella]

Call that Drive By Fruity.

[Sal]

And my.

[Adam]

Yeah.

[Sal]

And my. My wife is like, what are you doing? Why are you doing that? Like, they're eating all the food. It's like, so what? What are you telling. Oh, God, I can't stop doing this. I know.

[Adam]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Doug]

Our next caller is Sean from Iowa.

[Sal]

What's up, Sean?

[Justin]

Hey, guys. I've actually written a script because I've been nervous to actually talk to you guys because I've listened to you guys every single day. I idolize you guys. Not sure if you guys remember me, but I'm the guy that asked about the baking soda. The bigger pumps and the bigger dumps.

[Sal]

Yeah.

[Adam]

Wow.

[Stella]

I like the visuals.

[Justin]

So I'll kind of read my script. That way I don't ramble on. So good morning. Thank you for having me on the show. I found you guys through searching for fitness podcasts, and then I started listening to you guys, and you guys start talking like, dad talk, which is awesome because I found out I was gonna be a dad in 2023, and that kind of led to my fitness journey and how much I listened to you guys. My wife actually gets annoyed now when I make my daughter's puree. I'm like, I'm gonna grab the earth candy and puree up some strawberries for. She gets annoyed with it. So anyways, my daughter is 10 months old. She sleeps throughout the night. She's perfect. And I want to be a good example for her, which is why I've really gotten back into weightlifting. I did Orange Theory. I think I may have over trained a little bit with that. So I just started lifting weights. I was always into it. So my story kind of is my. My parents both passed away young. My dad was 43, and my mom was 51. I'm 37. And now that I'm kind of getting closer to those ages, I don't want my daughter to lose me at a young age. And I hear you guys talk about longevity with weightlifting and. And all that stuff. But anyways, after my mom passed away, I buried myself in work, kind of stopped lifting weights, and I did Orange Theory. Now that I'm lifting weights, I feel better. Adam, your YouTube series inspired me. Your playlist was fire. So I tried to create the same playlist. I changed my diet and approach. Now I'm doing a whole body workout three days a week. I walk between 15,000 steps and 20,000 steps daily. I saw you did a DEXA scan. I didn't know what that was, so I looked into it and I did one on July 7th. So my question, I was kind of disappointed with my DEXA scan. I. I want to cut fat and build muscle at the same time. And according I did in body scans, which is kind of why I was disappointed, the DEXA, my first in body scan was A. In December 2024, I weighed 196 pounds. My body fat was 20%. Skeletal muscle was 90.6. In June, my weight was 188. Body fat was 15.4. And then my skeletal muscle was 91.9. When I did my DEXA on July 7, my body weight was 186 pounds. My body fat was 21.8%. My lean muscle mass was 147 pounds. So I was a little confused because my waist went down from January of 2025, from 37 inches down to about 32 inches. So then I got into my own head and I started asking Chat GPT questions. And chatgpt is super nice. I'll never let you jump off the ledge. So what I did was I did a reverse diet. Kind of just listening to you guys doing a little bit of research. I may not have done it correctly, but I cut from 3,000 down to 2,000 for just a couple of weeks, mainly just cutting carbs out. And then I slowly each week introduce 100 calories of carbs back into my diet. For some reason, my body seems to operate better with low carbs. I don't know why, because I was seeing strength still coming through. So currently my maintenance is roughly about 3,400. I do track my. My calories through fat secret again. Thanks, Adam. My body, you know, operate better with carbs or without carbs. And I never have a problem hitting my protein targets. I do it through mainly whole foods. I mean, I will kind of cheat a little bit and have Greek yogurt with whey protein or my ninja creamy with whey protein. So I'm. I'm just like, kind of confused. I don't think I look like I'm 21 body fat. I do want to look ripped, you know, for my daughter. Just so any boy born between the years of 2021 and 2025 fear me later on in the future. So I. I don't know what I should do next. I've never had a problem losing weight. It was gaining, like, weight. Now it's kind of like reverse since I'm a little bit older.

[Sal]

Yeah, yeah.

[Adam]

Let's, let me, let me address a few things. First of all, you look really good, bro. You're doing great.

[Justin]

Thank you.

[Adam]

Okay, so that's, let's start with that. We're looking at your before and after right now and you already look like a dad that's can kick most dad's ass already. So you're on the right path if that's, that's your main goal. Mistake number one, you don't ever want to compare an in body to a DEXA scam. The, the mo of all body fat testing. The most important thing about all of it is to, is to use the same thing consistently if you're going to judge it. So, so you just got to let go of that because I bet if you did the DEXA can, when you actually did the in body scan, it was probably 7, 8% higher and you actually did probably really good. So that's, that's first and foremost don't cross, cross those over. That's so, so don't fear that if you lost weight and when you, when you leaned out, what might have happened, which is really common. And I think I even shared this in my, my series. If you watched all of it, I had one of my tests come back that I wasn't really happy with because I lost some muscle. I cut too. I cut too much and that's not what my body wanted to do. It still needed to be fed calories and it still wanted to build. And so even though the scale went down a little bit, I lost almost as much body fat as I did muscle. And so it didn't give me the body fat percentage change that I wanted. And so that's really common when people do that. When people go into these cuts, they cut too aggressively and, and then they do, their waist comes down, the scale goes down a little bit, but they also lose muscle. And so then the body fat percentage doesn't show up the way they they'd want to show up. And so I would tell you, caution you of those things and then, then I'd also tell you probably not to trip on it too much. Dude, it's very obvious from your pictures that you're overall you're doing good.

[Sal]

Yeah. And I don't think you're at 21%. Your picture looks like 15, 16 at the most.

[Adam]

Yeah.

[Sal]

Yeah. So that's weird that it measured you at 21%. Now let me ask you this. Are you stronger now than you were before? Are you getting stronger?

[Justin]

Oh yeah. Every, every workout. I mean I'm, I'm trying to do a 400 pound deadlift raw and I, I did 355 on my deadlift and before I was only doing about 285 for reps.

[Sal]

If you, if you lost weight and got stronger.

[Adam]

Yeah.

[Sal]

You didn't lose muscle. Yeah, that doesn't, that's, the odds are you didn't. The odds are you gain muscle and, and strength is, is about as objective as it gets. There's more. The weight is consistent. Body fat tests are interesting. They're really fascinating to me sometimes. Like I, I, I would no way think you're at 21 by that picture. You look a good 15, 16. You're at a healthy body fat percentage.

[Adam]

You look great. You really do. So and, and if you, you said you're eating 3, 400 calories right now.

[Justin]

Yep.

[Adam]

Good amount of calories.

[Sal]

Yeah, you're good, bro.

[Adam]

You gotta, you got a great. And at this point it's literally keep feeding yourself the way. You've already learned something too about the way your body responds to carbohydrates. You do better on a lower carb. So manage more of a lower carb diet. Keep focusing on getting strong. I wouldn't really try and cut or really try and bulk. I'd kind of hover around there and really focus on getting strong. Strong. And over time you get leaner and stronger and a better gauge actually is to take the most recent picture, don't look at it, don't worry about nothing for the next month or two and then take another one and then put those same lighting, same time of day, same everything. And then, and then, and then look at that and tell me if you're happy. And then I don't give a what inbody or Dexa says if you look at those two comparisons and you're like hell yeah, I'm definitely changing and I'm happy with the way I'm changing. You're on the right path.

[Sal]

Math.

[Adam]

I think you're in a good place. 3400 calories where you're at already. I mean you're in a solid place. You don't need to do anything. Keep getting strong.

[Sal]

And just so you know, we used to call 1516, which is what you look like. We, that's the athletic body fat percentage. So six pack shredded 9%. That's not really athletic. Although you see athletes at the pro level.

[Justin]

Right.

[Sal]

Shredded. But that's a completely, it's a different Animal, but right. 15 16% great body fat.

[Adam]

I mean that where I feel the best personally is hovering right around 30, 13 to 16. That range, like 13 is what I consider my lower lean. And I, and I'm a little bit leaner, but I still feel good. Even as high as 16, I still like that's the range that my body likes to be. I feel good. I still look like I work out. I don't look like bodybuilder Adam, you know, but it's okay. Yeah, the best version of me doesn't walk around like bodybuilder Adam. It walks around 13 to 16% and, and you also have nice flexibility with diet. Meaning I can still have a nice burger and fries every now and then and I can it to me that's a way better life and maintaining that and you will be able to kick most dad's asses looking the way you are.

[Sal]

And strength is the metric. If your strength's going up, you're doing good.

[Justin]

Okay, awesome. Yeah, no, I, I mean I'm, I'm gonna do a DEXA here in about 10 weeks anyways just because I know that was the first one and I just want to see how I'm progressing. But yeah, I, I'm gonna take your guys advice and make sure, make sure.

[Adam]

Sean, you replicate what the day, the morning and stuff. Look, look, you want the, the diet and water intake to look almost identical. So I don't know if you remembered what time of day you took the DEXA scan last time and what you had consumed, food or water wise. Ideally first thing in the morning when you wake up because that's the easiest to be consistent with. But that's another thing that, okay, comparing DEXA to inbody already makes a huge drastic difference. And then also water intake and food intake and carb intake leading into those things will differ because what happens is you fill up those muscles with water and carbohydrates, glycogen, and then it's going to read as more lean mass or less. And if you went in more loaded on say the first test, it's going to think you had more pounds of muscle and you didn't really lose any. You just. They weren't filled out and so they weren't weighing more on the scale. So okay, those things all matter. And that's where people get up in their head when they read these and they know, they feel like they're doing good, but then they read like you lost four pounds of muscle. But all it was is you were depleted, you didn't, you weren't drink. You weren't eating as much carbs. It didn't have as much water as you did the on the first test. And so that can throw it off too. So go into it knowing that.

[Justin]

Okay. Yeah, no, I, I was just like, am I getting fat, dad?

[Allison]

Strong.

[Justin]

Like this doesn't make any sense. I'm getting strong. I'm losing weight. But like 21.

[Sal]

No, 32. 32 inch waist is not fat, dad.

[Adam]

Bro, you're fine. You're doing good, bro. You're doing good.

[Justin]

Okay, awesome. Can I do a quick shout out to two buddies? I got onto you guys.

[Sal]

Yeah, yeah, do it.

[Justin]

Ephraim Yoder from Pittsburgh and Miles Mule from Long Island, New York, they're big into you guys. And Justin, they're big into your one liners.

[Adam]

Yeah, he's always a fan of people.

[Justin]

And so I'll compliment you too. I love your, your knowledge on supplements. I always appreciate it. And you know, you guys never steer me the wrong way with what you guys talk about. So I do appreciate you guys.

[Sal]

Thanks, Sean. Appreciate it. Thank you, Sean.

[Justin]

Yep.

[Sal]

Thank you. Yeah, that's body fat percentage. Like those machines. I gotta go do one. It's really weird. He doesn't look 21. No way.

[Adam]

No, no, he's teens.

[Sal]

I know what 20.

[Adam]

He's definitely teens. Whether he's 15, 16.

[Sal]

Yeah, exactly.

[Adam]

He's not 20.

[Sal]

He's in the mid teens.

[Adam]

You can, I mean, I try to explain this to people. You can really manipulate those things. They are great tools though, if you know how to use them and if.

[Sal]

You'Re following the trends. Yes, you look at the trend.

[Adam]

You. Exactly. That's all I care about. The number doesn't matter to me. It's like, like I. But I'm, I'm very meticulous about how I go into it. I'm like, I, I think about what I ate the night before. The whole day leading up.

[Sal]

You're trying to control all the control.

[Adam]

Exactly. So that it is as accurate as I can make it. But if you don't, if you just kind of go willy nilly and the time of day is different, the amount of water and carbs, I mean, you could throw Those things off 5, 7 pounds and 5 to 7 pounds of muscle on or off your body makes a big difference on body fat percentage. Especially the leaner you get and so easily can skew those things. Just gotta be careful with getting hung up on the numbers too much. Totally.

[Sal]

Look, if you like mind pump, you gotta check us out on Instagram. We're @mindpumpmedium.

[Doug]

Thank you for listening to Mind Pump. If your goal is to build and shape your body dramatically, improve your health and energy, and maximize your overall performance, check out our discounted RGB super [e-mail] the RGB Super Bundle includes Maps, Anabolic Maps, Performance and Maps Aesthetic nine months of phased expert exercise programming designed by Sal, Adam and Justin to systematically transform the way your body looks, feels and performs. With detailed workout blueprints and over 200 videos. The RGB Super Bundle is like having Sal, Adam and Justin as your own personal trainers, but at a fraction of the price. The RGB Super Bundle has a full 30 day money back guarantee and you can get it now. Plus other valuable free [e-mail] if you enjoy this show, please share the love by leaving us a five star rating and review on itunes and by introducing Mind Pump to your friends and family. We thank you for your support and until next time, this is Mind Pump.

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[Adam]

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[Adam]

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